Master THIS Skill and You'll Become Impossible to Ignore Feat. Rory Vaden

Key Takeaway

Today, improve one important conversation by using a “me story with a you meaning.” Before you share an experience, identify the lesson your listener can use, then tell it in four parts: scene, struggle, summit, and lesson. Add a deliberate pause before your key point. This shifts communication from simply reporting what happened to moving someone emotionally—and makes your ideas more memorable, persuasive, and useful.

Episode Overview

Ed Mylett and Rory Vaden explore communication as the ability to move an audience emotionally, whether that audience is a stadium, a client, a team, or a family member. They discuss presenting skills, intentional personal branding, storytelling, disciplined action, and building a meaningful career around service rather than status.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Master THIS Skill and You'll Become Impossible to Ignore Feat. Rory Vaden from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

If you are a leader, you are trying to get your team to do stuff, you have to move them emotionally. If you are a salesperson, you're trying to get someone to buy something, you need to move them emotionally. If you are a parent trying to get your kid to do something different, you have to move people emotionally. So that is the art of presenting. The key to my success, if I had to chalk it up to one thing, is my ability to present. You want to change your life significantly.

One of the fastest and best, quickest, most effective ways you could do it is be a better communicator. But how do you get yourself to do it is the key thing. Storytelling right now is you better learn this skill because it's the one thing that AI can't do. AI can't tell your story. AI can't share your experiences. And if presenting is all about moving an audience emotionally, stories are the vehicle to do that. So you have to learn this skill. So, you know, I've been trying to take my health and my morning routine to the next level.

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Five free travel sachets plus 10% off your order. That's code ed10 at im8health.com/ed10. Code10 at im8alth.com/ed10. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. All right, welcome back to the show everybody. So today's special, I think less than five people have ever been on the Ed Mlet show three times. Let's go. And that means you're really good. And so this guy's really good. He's also a very good friend of mine.

He is the founder co-founder of a company called Brand Builders. He's a two-time New York Times bestselling author. He's a two-time world champion public speaking finalist. He's got a viral TED talk. All that aside, and there's a lot more than that, he is the guy if you see someone with a best-selling book or you see somebody speaking on stage or you see somebody in the business or personal development space building a big brand. More than likely, Rory Vaden is their success whisperer, including me. And so, I'm bringing to you somebody who's really helped me in my career that I believe can help you in your career, who's also a friend of mine and a wonderful man, Rory Vaden.

Welcome back. Thank you, brother. I'm just going to change my bio to say Rory Vaden, Ed Mlet, success whisperer. That's that that's I think that whole intro video. It should be that that should be there's a lot of pressure on you today after that intro because you don't. Fourth means you really got to hit out of the park. All right, let's bring the heat. So, actually what we're going to talk about today, we're going to really go through three things everybody so you can lean in here.

Number one, we're going to really talk about business and growing whatever your business is overall, starting one, how to be better at doing business from someone who's been around about everybody killing it right now and has a big business himself. Secondly, we're going to talk about building a brand because I think there's a lot of people that don't even think they should have a brand, what is a brand? Why should I have one? What's that even mean? Does it mean I have to have a big Instagram following or what's branding?

And then third, presenting, which I think is the hidden skill that all people in any business, regardless of what they do, need to be better at. The key to my success, if I had to chalk it up to one thing, is my ability to present. And so, I want to talk about all three of those things today, which is going to be a full hour between you and I. Let's start with the presentation part. We'll just kind of weave them all together as we go. Yeah.

When someone says, "Hey, you should get good at presenting." I think a lot of people think, well, why would I need to do that in my business? So define what presenting means and why do people need to acquire that as a skill and get better at it. Let's talk about what presenting doesn't mean. Okay. People think that presenting means you're standing on a stage with like a slide deck and a microphone, right? The way that we define presenting is moving the audience emotionally. Okay. So I just watched you in an arena.

Here we are backstage, right? And you just moved thousands of people emotionally. Now, that happened to be on a stage. But if you are a leader, you are trying to get your team to do stuff. You have to move them emotionally. If you are a salesperson, you're trying to get someone to buy something, you need to move them emotionally. If you're a marketer, you have to write copy, create creative that moves people emotionally. If you are a parent trying to get your kid to do something different, you have to move people emotionally.

So, that is the art of presenting. And I think a lot of people don't realize there is so much science to it, but it applies to all of us and we all have to do it. And you know, you're you're a master and that's part of why you are who you are. I'm glad you defined what it is because it it can even be if one client walks in, you're presenting, that's an audience, right? If you and one thing I should tell everybody, I normally don't do this on the show, but I'm going to do it because you've invited me to do it.

Rory and I are going to do an event together. This has never been done before. I consider you kind of like a mad scientist of presenting, and I think, you know, I'm pretty good at it. So, uh, from an art standpoint, and I'm going to teach people what I know about presenting on stage, presenting one-on-one, presenting to your kids, um, closing sales, but main I'm going to do stage speaking, too. We're going to some of that boardroom talking, etc. How to do a better interview, how to hire people better, and how to be a better interviewee.

And you are putting that event on. It's two days. It's you and I. We should at least let people know we're doing it and where to go to get info. So, where's what's the site? Yeah. So you presentationmmasteryevent.com/ed presentationmasteryvent.com/ed okay is where you go and we've never done this before. I've never done this before and we're doing it together. So it it may be legit a once in a-lifetime opportunity. Probably will be once. And here's what I will say. I I don't I rarely say this.

This will be incredible because you have the two people on the planet that are you know this is we're not good at a lot of things but these are things we're good at. So, if you want to be a better, let's just call it communicator in any way, this would be the event for you. And I've never taught any of the things I'm going to teach at this event. It's the first time I've ever literally revealed any of the stuff that I do, including even how to do this.

Yeah. Also, and I know we want to do the interview, but just one thing to mention because it's like, you know, there you've done some stuff that is very expensive. Uh the the VIP for this is already sold out, right? There isn't there's affordable options for different people. So, I just want to mention that to everybody. Like, can you open up one? This is no tactic thing. I mean this sincerely. Can we open up one seat of the VIP for this podcast? I'm being serious. This is not some tactic to get someone to be a VIP.

I mean, if you want to, this is this is your I'm working for you here, so it's your show. Like, we're going to do this. Open up one so that if someone saw this right now and they jumped on it, they could still go to the VIP port. Okay. Okay. And by the way, guys, that's not a sale. We'll open one more. My audience knows me better than that. That's the authentic thing that just came up. Okay. Let's get back into this second. When you look at somebody who is good at persuasion or presenting, are there, this isn't in the list of notes, but I want to ask you this.

Is there some characteristic that you see in them, their ability to move people emotionally, is there a thing or two that the people that are good at it do that the people that suffer from not being very good at it don't do? Yeah. Well, here's when I was in graduate school, I remember going and I was we had like a senior project and we were studying uh we went and interviewed the orchestra conductor. Okay. So like you know the guy that like stands up there and does the symphony thing and he taught this really important lesson.

He said that basically he could change the way the audience was feeling by changing the intensity or the volume at which the symphony was performing and also varying the speed. So so basically everyone thinks that charisma is something you're born with or you're not. And I think we all look at someone like you and we go, whoa, like this is this man is extremely powerful and charismatic, which indeed you are. And I I do believe you're anointed and you have spiritual gift. But a lot of people don't realize that this whole thing can be learned.

So, for example, what the the or the the conductor was saying is that basically if he were to tell the orchestra to get louder and louder and then they were to make it faster and faster, then all of a sudden you'd see people like inch forward in their seats and and they start to perk up and they're like, you know, they're they're they're engaged. And then if you slow the beat way down Yep. and you bring the intensity and the volume to a whisper, he would see people lean back in their chairs.

Mhm. So much that you could see him fall asleep. And so what the lesson that I took from that was that what he was saying is that a mechanical change in your delivery y can actually cause a physiological change in your audience. Audience of 20,000, audience of one, either. Yep. either, right? I mean, hopefully my guess is there is somebody listening right now that just got boo goosebumps by going and here's what's crazy like what you say is really important to be a thought leader and expert.

You know, you and I have done other episodes on that. But when we talk about this particularly, like it doesn't even matter what I say. So, I can be saying a bunch of gibberish. It doesn't matter what I'm saying. I can talk about anything insignificant. But if I change the way if I increase my intensity and all of a sudden I get louder and louder and then all of a sudden I slow down you feel Mhm. something. So there's a lot we can do. I don't think most people realize that this is a skill.

I think they think people are born and by the way there are a few that are born with it. And I I certainly don't have a lot of skills but one of them was I a proclivity to be pretty good at this stuff. Yes. But I've also through you learned what I do well and they've become skills. So some of these talents turned out were skills and you're like do you know what you do? And I'm like oh I didn't realize that I did that. Thank you for pointing that out.

You're right. I do do it. I want to say to everybody because we're going to talk about branding and business as we go. But I this is you know a little bit from me to all of the audience today. Here's what's not told to you enough. You want to change your life significantly. One of the fastest and best quickest most effective ways you could do it is be a better communicator. Be a better listener. Be a better presenter. Be a better talker. Be somebody who it will help you in your interpersonal relationships, in your marriage, in your family, in your church, in your persuasion, in your ability to learn and grow.

It is the needle mover. In fact, when my kids were we were raising them, I wanted them to have their faith. I wanted them to me that that encompasses ethics and all these other things, their morals. I wanted them to have tremendous work ethic and I wanted them to be able to communicate. Amen. Those were the three things. And I think a lot of people leave their home and are walking around this world with so much more upside potential in their life if they were simply better at communicating their feelings and their thoughts.

And that's why I think that what we're talking about here is so important. Yeah. There's a there there's there are people listening right now who the biggest thing holding them back in their career is not their expertise. It's it's the fact that nobody knows who they are because they don't present well. Mhm. So they are they are the world's bestkept secret, right? Like if I don't notice you, I can never know you. So I have to be able to notice you first, whether that's getting a promotion or, you know, whatever it is.

But they they they don't present well. They think well, they are smart. They are brilliant, but they are the world's bestkept secret or they get overlooked for jobs or they they miss out on key relationships or or invites because they don't they don't articulate and present and communicate well. I think I'll use a word that'll even frame it a little differently. They don't express themselves well. And so this inability to express how you feel and how you think is holding you back. And so even those of you that are single, even in dating, you know, there could have been a connection there with somebody, but your inability to express your feelings or thoughts the way that you wanted to.

This is such a huge life skill and it's deteriorated more and more over time because of social media, because of screens, and AI is making it way worse. Great point. AI is is the compounding effect of making it worse. Your ability to express yourself is so huge in life, by the way. So are a whole bunch of other things. So we'll step out of presenting. We'll get back in there. We'll kind of weave in and out of this is like a success podcast I guess is what I would call it today.

You have this thing in one of your books. Tell us the book cuz I don't remember the name of it this book but I want you to tell something about the escalators versus the stairs. What book is it and what do you mean by it? Yeah. So that was from my first book, Take the Stairs, which is part of how I I broke through the wall. And it's a it's a very simple, you know, metaphor that we all look for the escalator. We look for the the easy thing, the short-term thing, the convenient thing.

we go. We live in a a world of instant gratification. And yet, as I've studied the most successful people, uh I have nine clients of mine who are billionaires now, private clients. As I'm around them, as you know, we get to be on boards and and see all this, you learn that there is no success story ever in any industry, in any geography, in any moment in history where success is about taking the escalator. M every single successful person takes the stairs metaphorically, which means they do the things that other people aren't willing to do.

They do the things that they don't want to do. They do they learn to do things even when they don't feel like doing them. And so the Take the Stairs book, my first book, that's that it's just a physical representation of this internal commitment to wake up and say, I'm going to do things that I know I should be doing if even if I don't feel like doing them, and I'm going to do things that other people aren't willing to do, and thereby you you you you earn your way to success.

You you you you deserve it. I'll give you the uh mantra that I had, by the way. I completely agree. Yeah. You talk a lot about I talk a lot about it and um I chasing difficult things, getting up every day and doing the things that you know no one's willing to do is going to get you the things no one else is going to get. And but how do you get yourself to do it is the key thing. And so I had this thing I repeated to myself forever which I think is matters in doing hard things.

This is not some bro culture grind hustle culture thing. I'm not that guy. I don't believe in those things. I sold myself that I wouldn't have to do it forever. That if I willing to do it short term I could get freedom in my life. And I used to repeat this to myself over and over. Made a post about it the other day on Instagram. It got like tons of engagement, which I I've said to myself over and over. Do all the things you don't want to do as fast as you can.

Yeah. So you can do all the things you want to do for as long as you can. So good. And I repeated this to myself. I sold myself on this isn't forever. This is temporary, but I'm willing to do this in the short term that I don't want to do. So the rest of my life I can do all the things I want to do. Do all the things you don't want to do as fast as you can. So you can do all the things you want to do for as long as you can.

Mhm. And I'm living proof that that's true. I pretty much with most of my days now do what I would like to be doing. Not everything, but for the most part because earlier in life, I did a bunch of stuff I didn't want to do. That's the payoff. Have I ever told you the Buffalo story? No. Okay. So, this is the story that I built my career on. And it's one it's in Take the Stairs, which I wrote, you know, years ago. And but so I grew up in Colorado and in Colorado, we're world famous for the Rocky Mountains.

That's what most people think of, right? So we have the Rocky Mountains, but Colorado as a state is divided almost exactly in half. And so we have the Kansas plains on the other half because of that unique topographical landscape. Colorado is one of the only places in the world that has both buffalo and cows in such close proximity. And there's a great lesson about success to learn from the way that these two animals respond to storms. So when a storm comes, storms always like brew in the west and then they roll out towards the east.

And what cows do instinctively is they can sense that a storm is coming from the west and so they will try to run away from the storm. So they'll run east. But the problem is you we all know that cows aren't fast. So the storm catches them rather quickly and without instead of out running the storm, they actually run with the storm, which maximizes the amount of pain and time and frustration they experience from the storm, which is so stupid, right? And yet humans do the exact same thing.

It's good all the time. We spend so much of our lives trying to avoid difficult choices and and we try to run away from the hard things and and and we chase the convenience not realizing that procrastination is an is a creditor that charges you interest. So you you always pay a price. We either pay the price now today or you will pay it with interest. the the easy life today makes the harder life later on. Now buffalo okay so buffalo are different. So what buffalo do is buffalo wait for the storm to like cross over the mountaintop and buffalo instead of running east away from the storm buffalo run west and they charge into the storm.

So they run at the storm and by running at the storm they run straight through it. M so it's the same storm but they experience it differently. The buffalo it minimizes the amount of time and pain they experience from that storm. Your life is a perfect example of that and your philosophy that you were just saying is just a cotification of that principle to go you real you figured out early on somehow that you know we call this the pain paradox. Easy short-term choices lead to difficult long-term consequences.

Meanwhile, difficult short-term choices lead to easy long-term consequences. It is We all have problems. But, you know, I was raised by a single mom. Y I was born in a trailer. All I wanted was Air Jordans. Like, we didn't get Air Jordans. We had Air Jord Dash. I don't know if you remember like Famous Footwear. Like, I had I had I had Air Jord Dash. And so, I have problems today, but they're much different than the ones my mom had. Yeah. By the way, I just, you know, for those of you that on audio, I don't know if you realize this, Roy, but right when you said trailer, your face changed.

It's your your you It's interesting when you have any trauma or drama in your life, it's on your face right now. You can go It's right there all the time. I think people think I'll never I'm so far away from my past. It's right there all the time. It's very It's right there on your face right now. Well, you said something when you were speaking today at the event and and you were just like, you know, out of every pain comes the blessing and you go, you just got to be grateful for that and you need to make sure you get the payoff.

Yeah. Uh that God wants to give you. Yeah. If you, you know, the enemy is putting you through the pain. God wants to give you the reward for it on the other side. The lesson, the new relationship, the one whatever, the one new friendship, the one new insight and the skill. You get you get a skill. You get a talent and a character out of you. Yeah. You uncover something about yourself you didn't know. It's revealed to you through that storm. And you're 100% right. By the way, the reason because I think a lot of people feel this way.

I concluded pretty early on, and this is not some false sense of humility. I concluded pretty early on that I was not gifted with tremendous intellect. I'm not dumb, but I don't have extraordinary intellect. I wasn't gifted with any tremendous abilities. Like, there's nothing that special about me. I I I know people who you immediately see them or you're with them and like, "Oh, they're special or they're charismatic or they're this." I don't I didn't have any of those things. So, my quick conclusion early in life was I'm going to have to outwork people.

There you go. Because I know and I mean that like and I think a lot of people that are listening this are like me. They suffer with a they suffer with their confidence. They suffer with insecurity. I I to this day, you know, you joke about four houses or all that. I but I still live with me every day and I still suffer with my insecurities and my self-confidence and like today is one of the few speeches I've given in a long time. when asked how I did, I didn't think was terrible.

Like, I thought it was actually pretty decent. It was magical. It was magnetic. Well, and I appreciate your feedback on that and I accept that you feel that way. But I'm saying it's it's through my insecurity, through my lack of confidence, um that has caused me to I had to choose a path like look, if I do what everybody else is going to do, I'm going to lose because there are just people smarter and better than me. But, uh what they're not going to get me on is work.

They're not going to outwork me and they're not going to outpare. So, and you you separate your emotions from those decisions. So, let me tell you. So, I was talking about my mom. Yeah. And by the way, my mom cannot wait to meet you. So, I was like, "Mom, you can't come to the VIP dinner." She's like, "I will work. I will serve." So, she's going to be the server at the VIP dinner at my at my house cuz she's like, I have mixed emotions about you're making your mother do that.

I know it's it's a little bit we'll we'll make it easy. But, um, my mom, you know, she put me in martial arts when I was young because she wanted me to learn discipline. And I um I remember, you know, fighting with her because uh wasn't very good at it and I'm I'm I don't have like a lot of physical ability, you know, like this is this is not a shock. Yeah. This is So, um you know, I always joke that like like I literally at 10 years old, I became the youngest black belt in Colorado.

Wow. To ever get beaten up by a girl. Um because going because I and it's it's a true story and I used to fight with my mom and I'm like, "Mom, I hate this. I don't like this. Like it's so humiliating." And and and I don't enjoy this. And my mom used to say to me, Ed, she would say, "That's okay, Rory. Enjoying it isn't a requirement of doing it." Wow. Mom, enjoying it isn't a requirement of doing it. And I think of, you know, we're talking about here with like speaking and presenting.

Some people are like, I don't like that, right? I don't want to, you know, I I don't I don't like that. And it's like, well, yeah, I didn't like going doortodoor either. I don't like there's all sorts of skills that you don't like the first time you're doing it. But it's it's it's not for successful people, the difference, like when you were saying, how do you get yourself to do things you don't want to do? Most people say ask, they include their emotions as part of the decision-m.

Do I enjoy this? Do I like this? That's what average people do. That's taking the escalator. What successful people do is they ask themselves, is this necessary? And it doesn't matter how they feel about it. Very true. And they separate their emotions and it's like, well, if it's necessary, then it must be done. That's the take the stairs mindset of an ultra performer. It's really good. By the way, I get to meet your mom. She doesn't get to meet me. Especially after hearing that, but and I love her son so much.

She's she's clearly a remarkable woman. She is. Um, one thing about that I don't like doing that when it comes to let's say speaking or we're going to talk about branding next. You know what's interesting? I was I one time I was um playing golf and I'll never forget this with a group of people. One of the guys in my group was John Elway and I he's played everywhere. He's a member everywhere. He's won a bunch of club championships and I said, "What's your favorite place?" And he goes, "Ed," he goes, "My favorite place is wherever I've played really well." If you play good, you like the golf course.

Right. And it's true in life. That's interesting. So one of the things if you say I don't really like doing this you know what if you get good at it you'll like it. Yeah. So the emotional part of making the decision even if you don't want to do it is true but the other thing is we genuinely in life like things we're good at and if we can get you good at something you'll enjoy doing it. And one of those things that I think I would say that it I mean the name of your company is Brand Builders.

So let's just go there. the first time you were on the podcast, a lot of people did not know who you were and they went crazy because of a little bit of this topic here about branding. And I think some people think I don't need to be a brand or I'm not a brand because I'm a school teacher or I'm a I don't know a realtor or whatever, which is crazy because in both those cases, what is a brand and why should somebody listening or watching you and I right now be paying more attention and getting more intentional about it?

Man, this ties to AI, your question about why does it matter, but let's talk about first what it is. And actually, let's start with again what it is not. Okay, everyone thinks a brand is you have to have a social media following, you have to be a podcaster, you got to write a book, you got to be a speaker, you got to be a Tik Tocker, like whatever. That's not what branding is. It's not your logo, it's not your fonts, it's not your colors. The way that we define personal branding is simply the digitization of your reputation.

So asking the question, do I need a brand? Or saying something like, I don't want to have a brand is completely off. That would be like saying, do I need a reputation? I don't want a reputation. No, no, no. You you have one whether or not you you want one. The question is, is it serving you? Is it the one you want to have? Are have you been intentional about it? And is it enabling you to make more income and more importantly, more impact in the world?

Because I think it's kind of like um I heard somebody say recently, this was one of our brand builders group clients. He was he's a fitness coach and he said, you know, your body, the way you look physically is like a resume. It's a resume that people read without ever talking to you. And so they look at your body and they can learn about you by the way that you look. And I was like, gosh, that's really powerful. your brand or when I think it would be people would be much better off instead of using the word brand.

They should think of the word reputation because then they would do online social media better, they would do offline better, they would think about this whole thing better and they would go, "Yeah, I better craft I better be deliberate about my reputation." And you go, "What do you have to do to have a great reputation?" Everything, right? You you have to have great personal character. Like um my pastor told me one time, he said, "Your our our influence will never grow wider than our character runs deep." So your personal brand is not about your followers.

It has more to do with your character. It has more to do with how you treat people. It has more to do with your your self-discipline, your personal respect. And so if you're a a school teacher or a parent, a leader again, a salesperson, or you happen to be a speaker, author, coach or thought leader, which is like who we work with at Branduilders Group, then you know, obviously it matters, but it matters for everybody. Digitization of your reputation. One of the all-time great quotes on the show.

So was that quote earlier about procrastination. Okay, so I hear you, Rory. I I have one whether I like it or not, so I might as well be intentional about grooming it, curating it. What should I do? Give me something today. I want to take a step. I'm listening to this. I've really not gone deep on this idea. Where do I start? What do I do? Yeah. So, tough question. Well, it it there's a lot of things you could do, right? But we one of our other mantras, if you have diluted focus, you get diluted results, right?

It's it's it's distraction is a is a dangerously deceptive sabotur of our goals. Like, gosh, Roy, it it's it's that's why most of us lose. So I want to talk about brand and reputation at the same time since we're making the connection. I think you could also think of it as reputation offline and brand online. But the the true answer I really think you go how do I build a reputation? It is so simple. Be useful. Be useful. You have to be useful to other people.

Right? I think I I can't believe that I know you. I I I go, "How did I get this relationship?" ship, you know, John Gordon is who introduced us because you happened to be in a season where you needed something and I was like, how can I be useful? I have to just I just have to go be useful. Um, and if if what most of us are doing is going through life being fully self-centered, what do I need? Who can help me? The people who are winning in reputation and brand are going through life completely the opposite.

They're going through um service centered and how can I help you? How can I be of value to you? Right? Like I'm not going how can Ed help me be famous. I'm going how can I help Ed succeed? How can I create income for Ed? How can I reduce complexity? And somehow I guess that has led to a relationship where you know there's there is there's there's value and and that's I think what people get wrong. So if you're going on social media, you go what is the strategy?

Be useful. Be useful. So that means you can either be entertaining, you can be encouraging or you can be educational. But it does not mean that the camera that you choose or the microphone that you use or the format that you use, I mean your many of your most engaging videos, it's like you in the gym and it's just like just talking to the camera. No editing at all. Um, uh, you got to learn to talk though, which we're going to talk about in a second.

You do, right? And, and people will say that, "Well, I'm not good on camera." We can teach you how to do that. It's not complicated at all. But before we go to that, one thing I did learn from you, by the time you met me, I was blessed that my brand had gone into like the millions of followers already. And by the way, you have tremendously helped me and it is how we forged that relationship. Because, by the way, what your usefulness, what it did is it got me to pay attention to you.

Bingo. And once I paid attention to you, then I went, "Oh, this is a wonderful man. He loves AJ. He loves his children. He loves Jesus. He cares about me. He's a good person. He's also brilliant. But I would have never known any of that. You're right if you weren't useful because it got me to pay attention to you over millions of other people. You provided some value or or yeah, usefulness to me. But one thing I did learn from you, and this is why I want everyone to lean in on this branding, this digitization of your reputation thing.

Lean in here, everybody. you've proven it doesn't have to be a huge brand to be a useful and effective and profitable brand because there's something more important than the size of the brand which is what? So talk to us about that. This is this is huge for all of you because you go well I don't I'm not going to go from 200 followers to 400,000. Turns out you may not have to. Yeah. So I got to tell you this story happened since we were together last time.

We had one of one of our clients said, you know, they were looking at our client roster, right? And it's, you know, Lewis House and Ed Mlet and John Maxwell and Amy Porterfield and Eric Thomas and, you know, Cody Sanchez and Jim Quick and all these amazing people. And one of our members, one of our brand builders members in our membership said, "I don't understand, Rory. Why do these people pay you money when they have so many more followers than you do?" It's a great question.

It's actually a really good question. And and I said, "Well, one is, you know, we're we're coaching on very specific things, but I said, it's interesting that which one would you be more impressed by? Someone who who made a lot of money from a lot of followers or somebody who could make a lot of money from very few followers?" And that's what we have done, right? We have now built two eight figureure businesses. We're about to have our third eight figureure business, uh, Mission Driven Press, which is the publishing company we started a few years ago.

And it's the way we do it is by serving a more narrow audience in a deeper way. Nailed it. That's right. Say that again. You you you serve a a a more narrow audience in a deeper way. So everyone is so concerned about the width of their reach. They overlook the depth of their impact. So good. So listen everyone. But we serve. So like if someone you know and again this this will I might sound like a jerk here but I just believe this is true.

If someone is a speaker, author, coach or a thought leader, meaning they are an executive or an entrepreneur who wants to be a thought leader, we're going to serve that person better than anyone else in the world. Lots of people have a course on this, a random thing on that, but it's like we will change your freaking life. We can help you write the book, publish the book, sell the book, hit the bestseller list. we can turn into a speaking career, consulting, coaching. We give you the funnels, we give you the scripts, we have all the AI bots because we serve a very narrow, very narrow audience in a deep way.

And you don't have to be famous to to to do that. You also, so you don't need to millions of followers to make millions of dollars. This is the law of AJ, my wife. But you also don't need to to impact millions of people to make a huge impact. That's right. So, this is the breakthrough for everybody. I think when we talk about building a brand, they go, "Well, then I I'm going to have to be famous." and from where I am to fame is probably not happening.

Almost some of us with the larger brands almost do a disservice because I've watched this through you and in my own career I meet people all the time who have what I would consider a deep brand in roofing. Yeah. Or a deep brand in the plumbing business or a deep brand locally in real estate. So they don't have millions of followers but they've got depth of brand where the their content is repetitious. It's gone deep in their following. They are either entertaining, educational, valuable. They have done something to make themselves useful.

I get asked pretty much every day to for people to be introduced to you. Going back to this be useful thing. Every day somebody is like, "Hey, can you introduce me to Ed? Can you get me on a show? Hey, you know, get me on Louiswis's show. Who whoever the person is." And they say, "How much do I have to pay you?" Yeah. For you to introduce me to Ed. And I say, "You cannot pay me to do that." And I say, "I've got good news and bad news for you." The good news is you don't have to pay me.

I will introduce you to Ed. I'll introduce you to John Maxwell. I'll introduce you to Eric Thomas. I'll introduce you to any of these people for free under one condition. You have to be able to add as much value to them as they can add to you. And so if you if someone can be that useful to you, it's got to be a bilateral exchange. And that that's part of where the trust happens. So anyway, so just I was thinking about that when you're talking about be useful to a small number of people but in a really really great way.

No, I'm glad that you uh added that because you're really also one relationship away from changing your life. And that's one person you're useful to, right? Like so someone who was useful to you there there can be an introduction to a broader reach of people by simply being useful to the right person. Um, what I was going to talk about with you is this notion that people ask me what's communication and it's part of branding, but it's part of being a good dad, good mom, good leader, good whatever is the ability to tell a story.

Oh yes. Okay. So I think I because this time speaker, presenter, communicator, let's take all that away. If you can tell a story, okay, you are more than likely going to be successful. By the way, if I play golf with you and we spend four and a half hours together and you can tell a couple great stories, we're more than likely going to become friends. I have friends all the time like where'd you meet this guy? I'm like the golf course. He does. He has nothing to do with this dude cracks me up or he can tell me a story.

Right. So, I want to talk about the ability to tell a story and I want to I'm going to feed you something you said to me once and this is the type of stuff they would be learning if they went to our event, frankly, but a lot of people can't afford can't go. So, we're going to give them some of this here on the show. You said to me one time, Ed, the reason that you're a good storyteller is this is what you said to me.

I don't know if you remember this, and I've stolen this from you and repeated it many times. You said, Ed, you tell I'll mess this up, but it's the way I heard it. You tell me stories with you meanings. Meaning, I'll be telling a story about me on stage or in a room or one-on-one, but as I'm telling that story, it's got a you meaning. That's a very unique thing. I I did it naturally and was unaware that I did it. But it is a skill somebody can learn because sometimes people tell stories like ah it was dead or the joke wasn't funny or it didn't connect and they're wondering why it was because it was a me story with a me meaning.

Yes. But when you tell a me story with a you meaning that's very different. Elaborate on that. Absolutely. And and so actually so in speaking to coaching I was coached by a gentleman named Craig Valentine who was the 1999 world champion of public speaking. And he told me, he's the one who taught me, you tell an I focused story with a you focused message. And so that's where that that originated from. And it's and and that is a huge part of storytelling. And storytelling right now is you better learn this skill.

Yep. Because it's the one thing that AI can't do. AI can't tell your story. AI can't share your experiences. and and and if and if presenting is all about moving an audience emotionally, stories are the vehicle to do that. So you have to learn this skill. So I do think one tactical skill of telling a great story is asking yourself. So the story is is what happened to you and we can talk about why most stories suck and I'll give you a four-part sequence, okay, for to tell a great story, but the audience is only really going to care about the story about what's in it for them.

And so you have to ask yourself, what was the thing that I learned that is useful to the audience? So the story is my experience. Okay, I want to stay in here really quick. We're going to go back and forth. When he's saying audience, can we tell you what I'm thinking? People go, "Oh, Ed's thinking of the 20,000 people on stage." I'm actually thinking of my dad when I was a young man telling me stories that had me meanings. And I've carried the meanings because the story resonated with me.

So that my dad's audience when he says audience was me, one person. Yes. And that's why don't don't slough this over and go, "Oh, this doesn't apply to me." You bet it does. You got an audience if you have one human being around you. Keep going. And and you're on that note, if you're leading a team of people, okay? If you teach them techniques, they're less likely to implement like they will forget it. But if you tell a story, they will remember the point forever. So you have to have a story and a point.

Um, what's the fourpart things that make a great story? I don't want to move off of it. Okay. I can't believe we're going to give this away for free, but let's do this because this is good. Do it, please. Okay. Most stories suck. And the reason they suck is because people think that a story is about the beginning and the end, but it is not. Okay? There are four parts to a story. There is the scene, the struggle, the summit, and then the lesson. The scene, the struggle, the summit, and the lesson.

This is good. So, every story starts with a scene. Think about a movie, right? So, the first thing that happens is it's a panning shot of like a city or a a farm town or they're setting the scene because you learn more about the characters by knowing where they are and what choices they make than by describing who they are. So, you describe the environment. So, any good story starts with the scene. Okay? But most people skip from, oh, we went fishing and we caught a huge fish, and they skip straight to the summit, which is like the pinnacle, because that's what they think a story is.

But the summit is not the story. The scene is not the story. The story is the struggle. The struggle is the story. So you know if we at the event we'll show this map but like it starts off emotionally invested low with the scene and then there is this climb of conflict. The climb of conflict is what is the story. It's the tension of two steps towards the goal and one step back. I wanted this to happen and then this happened. I want you know and then I I I you know and every romcom follows this.

It's like oo boy spots girl. She's so pretty but he can't you know talk to her. He's so nervous. Then boy spots girl. They have a conversation. She's so cute. But then he finds out she has a a boyfriend, right? Oh, boy spots girl. Now they broken up. He's got a chance. They go on a date. It's going good. And then his old girlfriend shows up, right? So it's always two steps forward, one step back. The story, the struggle is the story. The story is in the struggle.

And so you only include the elements that pertain to that. What is the what is the objective I want and what are the things blocking me? But you have to sell or tell the things that are blocking you. And that's by the way that's also how you sell in marketing. That's also how you sell on a stage. That's also how you you you know you sell in copywriting through through well-ld stories. I almost wish we weren't doing the event so that I could just so that it looked like I have no because it's your event, but I like I have no um dog in the fight on this.

Yeah. Because I just believe this is the quickest, best way to change your life. We keep all these skills, your mindset, your vision, your this you got to get better at expressing yourself. Period. End of story. Like I I just it breaks my heart because have you ever had a situation where maybe you've seen this before, somebody didn't get smarter? They didn't get better at their business. They got better at presenting their ideas and that's what grew their business, whether it be branding or in a boardroom or or one-on-one.

Have you you've seen situations like this, right? That's that's the situation I see more often is that someone didn't get smarter or better what they do. They got better at presenting it. Yeah. And and and unfortunately the story I I see more often is I see a really amazing talented people who get overlooked because they can't communicate well. I agree. Uh we're this happened, no kidding, this week. So uh we are interviewing somebody for a position. Mh. She is super qualified, has the experience and the whole thing.

And I was asking our our leader who was doing the interview. I said what what did you think of of this woman? And uh the inter the hiring manager is also female. And she said you know she is amazing. She is so smart and so good. She said my only problem is she cannot look you in the eye. M she said the entire interview her eyes are rolling around and she said I we could hire her to do the job but the problem is if she was ever talking to one of our clients like an Ed Mlet like they would eat her alive because she she she looks like she has no confidence because she can't look you in the eye.

And there's so many of these things Ed like some of the most simple tactical things you can do to be a better presenter is don't look people in the eye look them in the pupil. like you look people in the pupil and just force yourself to like lock eyes and just and just sit with them that will help. The other really tangible, you know, technique that I think anyone can use is uh we call it the power pause and people do not realize how how that pauses are powerful.

And it's and I can even I can demonstrate this, right? I can say, "Hey, Ed, pauses are powerful." Or I can say to you, Ed, pauses are powerful. Feel the difference. Tactical thing. Going back to the orchestra conductor, these are tactical things that are they are skills. Yes, some people have more natural gifts in communicating, in presenting, but there are so many tactical things that, you know, I went to the World Championship of Public Speaking twice out of 25,000 contestants, you know, and I was in my early 20s.

I had to learn these things and I noticed all of these patterns. There's patterns in how you tell jokes. Like people think that being funny and this this by the way was one of my biggest areas because like people are always amazed when they see me on stage cuz they you know they laugh a lot when I'm on stage but then they meet me on real life and they're like you are not funny and I said I know that's because when I go on stage I have the time to architect a a punchline and there's you know there's four parts of a of a joke.

There's the setup. Um, there's the pause. There's the expectation of what you make people think you're going to say and then the punch line. So, like, you know, earlier we were talking about, you know, I became the youngest black belt in Colorado. Mhm. Right. So, what happened is I create a setup which I get your mind moving in a direction and it's like, oh, Rory became the youngest black belt in Colorado. Then I pause and I allow your brain to fill in what it what it's going to say, which is, "Oh, that's amazing.

Oh, that's so cool. That's so impressive. And then the punchline is the twist, the change in expectation. I say to ever get beaten up by a girl. And so that is a that's a formula. Really good. And and there's just there's How do they go to the event? Like someone's listening to this like I'm just sitting here going look I don't care. I'm going to promote this. How do they go? Where do they go? What's the website for the event? Yeah. So presentationmasteryvent.com. Okay. SL One more time.

Presentationmasteryvent.com. presentationmasteryevent.com/ed. Yep. And there's like a virtual one. There's a virtual one, too. Yeah, there's a virtual way to go because you guys, I know a lot of you are listening to this and you're like, "Yeah, you know, you're going to be up against people who are good at this." And by the way, if you want to learn to speak on stage, you're going to learn all the things I know how to do, too. How to close in a boardroom. I've closed sales of companies. I've closed exits.

You'll learn how to do all this. But I just want to express to you, even if you don't, please begin to pursue being better at expression. And that can be even as simple as like like today, an example, flying out to this event to speak. I uh everyone's teasing me, oh you're flying commercial now again, you know, and of course and so but I sat next to this woman today and you know like you just instantly sit next to something like this is going to be a good conversation.

I actually had headphones on and took them off. Oh, the universal signal for let's talk. And this woman, she's a Red Sox fan like me. She's coming out here to the game. But it wasn't just that. And you're like, what did you She's a pharmacist. We don't have the same career in common. She's not even an entrepreneur. But we I just She had the ability to have a conversation. And I learned about her dad and her mom and how much she loves the Red Sox and that she just got picked up to do some guest spot on QVC as a client presenter, right?

Like but the point is is like that was a pleasurable 2-hour long flight with a wonderful person. Whereas if she couldn't express herself adequately, I would have never known this was a beautiful soul. I would have never known her background. I would have known that that she had lost her, you know, a family. I would have I just so many of you I don't think people are getting the best of you. They don't know how amazing you are and how wonderful you are and and uh because it's an expression issue and so some of these things are very tactical like I told you Rory's the scientist but also with this event you're going to get the art form of it from me and what I think are like more conceptual things that I do that Rory can tell you the science of.

But I have learned that in my life it's become a much more Okay, here's what it is. I've had a richer and deeper experience in my life because of my ability to express myself to others. And because I have an ability to express myself to others, I pull out expression from other people. Yes. Like what we're doing right now. And so you don't know what this is costing you. Forget the money part. Forget the closing the deal. A lot of you are like, I want to learn to speak on stage like you might let I'll teach you.

Okay. I've never taught you make your money back in one talk. Like 55. I've never taught it. But throwing all of that aside, it's your interpersonal life that there are there's even I will go as far as to say that your ability to receive and give love. Yeah. I mean, I think what you're saying is so so important because there there is a there's a payoff here. It's like imagine if you did feel confident, right? Like imagine if you could feel confident to talk to people.

And I do think with more AI people are going to the pendulum is swinging back to like we want more human connection. We want more interaction. But the deeper part which I think you're getting at where you said people aren't getting the best of you. I think that's what this is really about because we're not really having just a physical experience here on earth. We're having a spiritual experience. And the spiritual experience comes from the ability for a soul to recognize the beauty in another soul and to move to move each other emotionally and to inspire each other along and to share companionship and to share heartbreak and hardship.

But you go through this life with souls and and that that bond happens through expression. I agree. I got to say to everybody, forget the event. Let's assume you can't go for a minute, okay? Because a lot of you can't, but I love you and I love our audience and you know how emotional I get about this. I want your life to be better. And so if you can't get to this, hopefully the show today is helping you, but begin to invest in yourself and maybe it's getting a book or beginning to be more detailed and observing people that you think are good communicators at getting better at this self-expression because business is art and science.

Life is art and science, but all of it at the end of the day, you have this yearning to be the greatest expression of you you could be. That's really what you want out of your life. You want to be the greatest expression of you as a as a as a child of God, as a as a parent, as a business person, as a friend. And so, your job more than anything is to learn to be the best expression of you. And part of that is your ability to express you.

And so whether it's this event or you can't do it, just start to work on that part of your life. It's I regret that the last eight or nine years of doing this show, I haven't spent more time on this until today because it's it's the key to my life other than my faith of course, but but yet I've really never talked about it and I've never heard it said this way in any podcast before until today. So I feel so strongly about it. Okay, last thing I want to ask you about.

Today's been great. again. You always do you always say three or four things on the show that no one's ever said before that people take away and remember and you've done it again today. I want to ask you this about you, okay? Because you are sort of you always hold everybody else up. One thing you and I have been because we're doing this event together. I have been this is about success everybody. So stay in here to the end. I have been around you more lately and we've been on group texts more lately and communicating and when you walked into the green room after I spoke I said dude you're busy right now and you know to get where you've gotten requires a lot of work and and you're a very busy person.

In fact when I met you were busy but you're really busy right now. You're building a big company multiple companies. I wonder if someone leaned in from you're born in a trailer single mom. You worked a lot, Rory, right? I'm wondering and honest answer and give give the good and the bad here. Is it worth everything that has to be sacrificed and do you wrestle with this in order to be where you are? Because most people their picture is like, I want to be on that seat someday on Ed's show or I want to at least be in the seat I belong in in my life.

And it requires a lot of this work thing we're talking about here more than most people. I'm on group text with you where you're getting back to people at I'm being honest like 10:30 at night and in a week night and I'm wondering if you are wrestling with that and what you would say to somebody who's in the hunt right now. They're in that part of life where they are paying the price but they're not getting the reward. Is it worth it? Yes, it absolutely is.

But let me it is now. There were some things that I messed up along the way. And I think when I look at my life because I came from little, my initial drive was ambition. I wanted success. I wanted the world championship trophy. I wanted to be a New York Times bestselling author. I wanted to have money to buy box cereal instead of the crappy bagged stale cereal that I grew up on, right? And then I got some of those things. So I worked really hard and I got some of those things and then it was like, man, I sacrificed a lot for those things and that was really great.

And so then I think at some point my motivation evolved from ambition to competition and it was like, well now I now I want to be number one. Now I'm going to be the best. Now I'm going to be better than anyone's ever seen. And I worked really, really hard for that. And that pushes for a while. And there's good things that also come out of that. But one of the things that AJ and I wrote in our recent book together, you know, we co-authored a book was that for us, peace is the new prophet.

Mhm. And where we really had a turning point was when when we separated from our former company. We we had an an exit. Um and we designed Brand Builders Group from the ground up to not be about ambition or competition but about mission. M and the reason that I respond and do things now is because I am genuinely driven by the mission of helping other people. I get so excited when one of my clients succeeds. I get so excited when my kids succeed. I get so excited when we're able to give a raise to one of our employees.

There's nothing like the feeling you get when you help someone else succeed. And you know, you you did a a bit on a YouTube video a long time ago. I don't know if you remember this, but you were talking about eating a steak, and you were saying that you could you could eat a bite of steak and you could both be so satiated and happy as you're eating it, but also insatiably wanting more. Blissfully dissatisfied. Blissfully dissatisfied. Yes. And that when I think when you give your life to mission, that's what happens.

Ambition and competition can lead you to healthy places, but they can also lead you to unhealthy places along the way. But when you're just there to to to serve and it's like I won't serve someone at the expense of my family. So if I'm responding at 10, it's probably because I got the kids down, they're asleep, and my wife is asleep. And now I have That's exactly what you told me in the green room. You said that was because I finally got the kids down to sleep.

Yeah, it was family first. So I won't I won't compromise that. Um, you know, but there are seasons where you you do have to make some trade-offs, right? I mean, today is a Saturday, you know, it's it's this is I'm missing out on a family day and you you make you make some calculated decisions, but at the end of life, you go you you you tell the story when you talk about your dad where it's like you're not taking your trophies, you're not taking your money, and you're not earning your way into heaven.

But you said something today on stage that I've never heard you say or not quite like you did. He said, "You're not going to earn your way into heaven, but you sure are going to earn the line of people who are there waiting to greet you when you arrive." Thank you. And that really touched me. Good. And and so yeah, there there's that's a great answer, Rory. There's sacrifices, but it is it worth it? Yeah, it's worth it. Not because of what you get, but because of what you get to help create in other people.

Yeah, you really do live that, by the way. And and um by the way, even in this event, even being on the podcast, I said, "Hey, can you do it?" And you said, "I got to check with AJ." It's the first thing you said. Um that was a great honest answer. This was a great honest podcast. I think you're coming back for a fourth time. All right, let's do it. I think you made the cut. Presentationmasteryvent.com/ed. Yes, check it out. And if you can't get to it, just start to work and read a little bit more about your self-expression, the ability to express yourself.

Whether that's a stage of 20,000, you want to learn that or sitting there on your first date with somebody or with your babies, your kids. Rory, you're awesome. Thank you for today. This was a 10 out of 10. Again, I love you, brother. Love you guys. I don't think I have to ask you to share this one. I think I know you're going to. God bless you. Max out your life.

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