Mark Cuban on the AI Bubble: Who Actually Gets Wiped Out?

Key Takeaway

AI implementation is harder than expected at the enterprise level. While individuals can boost productivity 100x with simple prompts, deploying AI in companies requires forward-deployed engineers and systems thinking. The gap between AI-literate and non-AI-literate employees is stark—comparable to knowing how to use a PC versus using legal pads. This creates enormous opportunity for anyone who understands AI basics and can help businesses fix implementation failures.

Episode Overview

Mark Cuban and Jason Calacanis discuss the current AI wave, market bubbles, and entrepreneurship opportunities. They explore why AI is harder to implement than expected, the gap between AI-literate and non-literate workers, health optimization through data and AI, and how large language models might counter political polarization by providing truth-seeking answers.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Mark Cuban on the AI Bubble: Who Actually Gets Wiped Out? from All-In Podcast. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

You and I lived through a couple of bubbles. We've seen this movie before. Um and and this wave seems very different than dot-com wave. So, let's talk about that. Are you concerned about a bubble? We're seeing bubbly like behavior people behavior people behavior people It's not It's not the traditional dot-com bubble, right? Cuz back then there were there were there were companies going public, getting crazy valuations, and people were buying them, and the stock would go up, you know, 50% 100% with companies that had no revenue, no traffic, no nothing, and you'd go get a cab back then, and people would be talking about them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't you don't see that at all today. So, it's not a bubble that's going to impact most people in the room, right? Or most people um across the US. But, it could just destroy a lot of VCs and a lot of funds and a lot of PE, right? Because they're going all in. AppLovin started with an $8 domain and no VC funding and became one of the largest ad platforms in the world. Now, that same engine powers AppLovin ads for e-commerce.

Your ads run inside mobile games reaching over a billion people with full-screen distraction-free attention. The platform finds buyers and optimizes for profit. You set the target, it does the rest. One cookware brand went from $4 million to $16 million, turned profitable, and is on pace for $80 million this year. Visit applovin.com/allin applovin.com/allin applovin.com/allin to launch your first campaign today. It used to be that product managers for brokerages had to outperform their numbers, right? For, you know, the SPX or whatever. But, now you got to outperform to keep the money coming in.

You got to outperform the the fund next door. And they're all in Anthropic and getting their outcomes in SpaceX and celebrating. But, if hits the fan, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oof. Oof. Oof. And really is like I've only done venture for just over 10 years, and it is wild to watch so many people who deployed at the wrong time just out of business. They just invested at the peak and entry price matters. And you and I have been in a bunch of deals together and we used to get to invest in companies at 5 million, 10 million as angel investors and then all of a sudden the request was 40, 50, 60 and the product's not launched and you're like how does this work?

Yeah, and you know, and what's happening now is the market leaders Google etc. Meta, they're borrowing hundreds of million billions of dollars. Yeah, that's interesting. And there's already a private credit problem right now, right? So you you you just layer on private credit like Al Capital getting all the refunds and then you you know, you have these huge companies that have cash flow but there's you know, they're they're spending all their cap cap cash flow on CapEx and then they're borrowing on top of that. of that.

of that. 50-year bonds. 50-year bonds. 50-year bonds. Right, that's planning for perfection and that's going to be hard and we're building these data centers and you know, if there's a price performance curve on AI that minimizes the power requirements, there's going to be a lot of data centers that are going to be turned into pickleball courts. Interesting cuz they just can't get the power turned on. No, and then just the power just everybody thinks that okay, there's going to be so much more utilization and there will be, right?

It'll just scale like everybody expects but there's going to be breakthroughs in technological breakthroughs as well. Just like we saw fiber back in the day. It was all about putting in fiber then it went from 1 gigabyte fiber to 10 to 100 gigabyte and then there wasn't a fiber problem anymore. There wasn't a bandwidth problem anymore. problem anymore. problem anymore. Quite the opposite. We had dark fiber that people bought. Yeah, and that's what people are doing on the dollar and just sitting there, right? And how is it not going to be the case that we don't get the same price performance improvements on the AI side and on the data center side?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then with all the hate going against the data centers, I think that could be you know, protecting them. And I mean spending committing tens of billions of dollars for 10, 20 years going out, yeah. I mean nobody can predict that well. well. well. I mean, you're used the word pricing to perfection, I think, earlier in the conversation and that's really what's happening. I mean, you have to have a thesis that we're going to put a hundred, you know, Open AI, uh, a hundred billion dollars to work to work to work and that's going to come back not just in revenue, but it has to come back in earnings.

earnings. earnings. A margin dollars, yeah. Yeah, it has to be profitable. Yes. And you just don't know. You don't. You don't. You don't. Now, and I'll tell you the other in terms the corollary for, um, bubbles, right? In this particular bubble cuz it's so driven by private capital, there should be a lot more companies going public. Not at the SpaceX level for not Open AI, not Anthropic, but the hundred million dollar, um, dollar, um, dollar, um, IPO. IPO. IPO. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because if AI does what AI knows we all we we all know what it'll do in terms of disruption, disruption, disruption, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. then you want to have, um, some sort of, um, currency that allows you to buy all those companies. Like you guys were talking about buying different, um, legal companies, legal companies, legal companies, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. right? Well, if you don't have that currency, the stock is currency, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you're going to have to go out and raise money to do it and if anything happens, and that money is not cheap. That money is really, really expensive versus if you go out and you do a hundred million dollar IPO or a fifty million dollar IPO and you can do a secondary or whatever as many times as you need if you're performing, but the minute that company that you're competing with that is a legacy business can't keep up or there's some other, um, company that has domain expertise that you need or data that you need like you guys were talking about, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. you want to be in a position to buy them. them. them. Yes. That is incredible currency. thinking. Yeah, nobody is forward thinking like that at all and I'm like trying to tell my, um, my portfolio companies, go public, mother go public. They just don't think that's the right thing to do. Well, and M&A is, you know, not to make this political, but, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, you have to play the game on the field. M&A was off the table. Lina Khan had a certain perspective, which was we have to be like precogs in Minority Report.

We have to predict who's going to be a monopoly in the future and stop them now. It's like, okay. like, okay. like, okay. with to compete with China and everything else that's going on globally. globally. globally. Yeah, 4 years of no acquisitions. I mean, the mean, the mean, the people I talked to who were in corporate development were like, we've been told to stand down Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because it's not worth the breakup. we are right now, but even so, right? It's you know, with mergers and acquisitions at that scale, fine.

But if AI does what we know it will do, the companies that are disruptive don't have to be enormous companies. companies. companies. No. No. No. So you don't want to have to always raise cash to go out there and do that. cuz like back in the day, back with broadcast.com, we bought like five companies just for stock. Yes. And then there was always a bigger fish to come along. were happy to, you know, be acquired Yahoo. Yahoo. Yahoo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the famous scholar, if you were a Claude employee, if you're at Anthropic or at OpenAI, is it time to start thinking about the collar?

Trying to think about, yeah, Yeah, you know, I collared my stock because how rich do I need to be? Right. Right. Right. You know, and if you if you're able to change your life, if I work for any SpaceX, any of them, whatever, I'd be like, you know, somebody put together a collar for me, you know, because I just need to be protected, save part of my upside, but just cover my downside. Yeah, and when you did it, you had to like actually orchestrate that, right?

It didn't exist as a product. didn't. So I had to actually create an index of internet stocks. I had Goldman Sachs create an index of internet stocks that I thought sucked. And then I shorted that index cuz we and we had to follow all the laws, and I just had to have that short in place until I was able to do a real collar in the market on my Yahoo stock, and I lost tens of millions of dollars on that short. that short. that short. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But I made up for it. Yeah, I mean the one of the great trades of all time. What do you think the the the this wave of capabilities in AI. I'm sure you play with it cuz you've always been a tinker. So maybe what are you tinkering with and what do you think um is going to be the most world changing, you know, in the next 5 10 years for entrepreneurs, for society? Where do you look at it and go, "Hey, This is totally going to work backwards.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So AI is a lot harder to implement than anybody expected. anybody expected. anybody expected. For sure. For sure. For sure. Right? You know, you can do an agent pretty straightforward, right? You can prompt away, you know, we cheated on test, we you know, cheated at work, you know, did projects, improved our productivity a hundred X, right? All easy peasy and we just assumed, you know, at the enterprise it'd be just as easy. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's terrifying.

And not terrifying for employees because Darien everybody's saying 50% of white collar people are going to lose their jobs. Here we are two years later they said within [clears throat] two years and you know, employment still growing, people are hiring, we need more AI literate people, right? So CEOs have no clue what is going on. None whatsoever and that's not going to change, right? And so, you know, trying to explain to them that you need to add a harness to the you know, all the no chance, no chance, no chance, Right?

Right? Right? And if you think about it from an AI perspective, if AI we're talking about, you know, AGI and we're talking about taking over the world, if you can't you if you need to have forward deployed engineers, that tells you all you need to know about AI cuz by definition you should just be able to ask AI to do what I need you to do and ask and tell me how to implement it, right? Yet here you have Microsoft hiring 6,000 people, right? You have Anthropic, Open AI all saying they're going to deploy to these companies, which tells you AI is hard.

And then you have Alex Karp from Palantir freaking out saying, "How can you give your alpha to these companies when in my opinion he's just saying they're doing what we're doing, right? We're We're all about forward deployed engineers at Palantir and they're doing the same thing." Uh it Uh it Uh it it again it's a great insight because you can if you're using it as a search engine or if you're making your little agent to you know go to your cron job, okay, fair enough it's it's going to work.

You need to be a have a little bit of systems thinking, but when you start putting into the enterprise and you know if this is mission critical work. the little bit of systems thinking because that's the second part. I'm not trying to on AI. I love it. I invest in it. It's going to be amazing. It's the most impactful technology that we've ever seen and may ever see, right? But try going into Claude or ChatGPT and saying, "Okay, I just want you to do this search for Jason Calacanis investments and I want you to report and I want you to email it to me every week." week." week." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It can't do it. Can't do it. And then it says, "Okay, would you like for me to do an an agent that gives you alerts?" And then you say, "Sure." And then you have to know how to program because it either gives you a JSON file or it gives you you know code. And it comes out slop and then Yeah, then you have to correct. You have to reiterate. You know, if you want to say, you know, "Hey, let me load a picture in and you tell me if I'm hot or not." Or is this girl hot?

What should I say to her? You know, or business versions, great. versions, great. versions, great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? But AI is not going to you know take away 50% of the jobs. There's just so much it can't do that regular people need it to do, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. right? Now, does that create opportunity? Enormous opportunity, right? So like I'm an investor in Lovable and we were here this morning talking and um Anton was saying that Anton was saying that um they people are using lovable to create 770,000 create 770,000 create 770,000 applications a week.

A week. A week. A week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And that only 30% of their business is in the US. And only um 20% is engineers. And what's happening is entrepreneurs, to answer your question about where it's going, right? If you're an entrepreneur, like he was saying before, there were there's no better time to be an entrepreneur. He's He nailed it, right? Because that's where AI is the most impactful. No matter where you are in the world, they have big utilization in Brazil, India, right? If you're in France, US, wherever.

You know, like I gave I gave it a prompt. Like I said, cuz I wanted to see what it would take. I was like, okay, we're going to create an imaginary company that has a button that can record 24-hour video, and then I want it to be able to send it to me every 24 hours, and I want you to create a patent and a business plan, and tell me what licensing or whatever I need. 12 minutes. 12 minutes. 12 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Like dude, just know we've started a tons of businesses. Yeah, 6 months to get a prototype, 12 months to launch it. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then you have to And then I asked for a bill of materials and the source companies. Like the basic stuff to be that the blocking and tackling stuff that every company has to do at you know, when you're setting it up and early in its life cycle. Done. Done. Done. Done. And even if it's wrong. So what? Because the one thing you and I both know and everybody in the room should know, every single business plan ever written in the history of business plans Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. is wrong. is wrong. is wrong. Of course. Yeah, it's a it's a thought exercise that at least gives you some sort of direction you're going in. Yeah, and it's some sort of guideline and a template for you, right? But it's wrong. wrong. wrong. Yeah, we're going to iterate. So what if the AI is wrong? If the model is wrong, you know? Cuz it's you're going to learn and you're going to iterate, but it's still again, all this talk about taking white-collar jobs is ridiculous when it can't even do the basic Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. right? And you have to have, like you said, a programming mindset Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. in order to be able to iterate and figure it out. And like even you would think if AI is advanced as we want to believe AI is right now, all the errors that we get when we ask it to do a project, it would learn from all those errors errors errors Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and even have "Hey, I'm Claude. I see you have a problem with this, right?" And it failed on these three attempts.

Let me just tell you what 97.6% of the other people who ran into this did, right? And then it would fix it for you. It would tell you. It doesn't even do that. It just says failed, right? Or it says whatever. says whatever. says whatever. You know, again, AI is amazing and particularly for programmers, it's game-changing. game-changing. game-changing. Yeah, when you have a narrow data set like code or legal It's just math. It's math. Yeah, and it's just math, right? Basic data, right? But when you want it to do when normal people anywhere in the world want to use it for normal stuff.

normal stuff. normal stuff. Great. You start a business, great. But if you want to start getting advanced, it's like figuring out PowerPoint used to be or Excel, right? You always have to have your Excel expert, you know, or your PowerPoint your PowerPoint your PowerPoint company company company Yeah, or whoever that you knew, right? Or there would be companies built um I invested in like a company that Slideshare that all they did was have PowerPoint templates that you could download and redo. AI's not even that advanced for, you know, once you get to the second level.

And so it creates so much opportunity for anybody to walk into a small, medium-size, even large business and say, "Hey, I understand AI. I have a basic computer background or better." And so all these fails that you're running into across your your your company big or small, I can help you fix them. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Because what AI can do once those issues are fixed are fixed are fixed is phenomenal. is phenomenal. is phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But even better if you're thinking as an entrepreneur to start a business, those things will eventually break.

Agents get bored, right? And they drift. Because as the underlying um let large language model starts to change, the way it was originally programmed doesn't match with the large language model turned into, right? You see what I'm saying? I'm saying? I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you and you even wrote something about this, right? Where it's taking more people to manage all this stuff. Starting a business usually means juggling a bunch of different services just to look legit. Not anymore. With Northwest Registered Agent, you get a complete business identity all in one place.

A business address, domain, website, phone number, and more. With privacy protection built in from day one, don't spend hundreds or thousands on services you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/all in free and start using free resources to build your business today. I'm trying to get the whole firm to be AI first and even with young people it's like one group embraces it and you know, they they solve, you know, I don't know, let's call it five or six really pressing issues. The other group is, you know, not embracing it and the the difference between those AI first employees employees employees and the non-AI first employees, the gap is like, whoa.

It's almost like when we got into the industry and somebody knew how to use the office suite and a PC Right, right. Right, right. Right, right. and then somebody else was like on legal pads. It's like that much of a difference. It's so stark. People who are AI literate, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. what when do they run into a ceiling? Well, you know, it's what I'm seeing is a lot of tool hopping, which I it's a good question because they started with open claw, they started building it, it got brittle, and then it just got uses open claw?

Who's open claw? Anybody using Hermes? Agent? Okay, there you go. Who's on Claude co-work? Claude co-work? Claude co-work? And that Oh, wow. And Perplexity computer, anyone? Okay, interesting. Those are the four that people have been bouncing around on. And what I decided to do is I was just like, "Hey, token max it. You can you can use it for a couple thousand dollars a month. I don't care about that. I just care about the gains." And they all wound up um going from open claw. All the agents started breaking, it's hallucinating, it's like too frustrating.

They started using Claude co-work. Okay, great. Um but kind of limited. And then they started using lovable. And they built intranets for the venture business that no venture business would spend a half million dollars and 12 months building an intranet. Like you'd just be like, "I'm going to put it in Notion, Google Sheets, whatever." And then they just started building more and more software. So I have two or three people who are building software that I would say 5 years ago we would have spent maybe two or three million dollars a year building this with that outsourced company.

outsourced company. outsourced company. would not have done it. Which means we wouldn't have done it. Right, you would just bought the SaaS application that did it. And then we would have tried to like shoehorn it into a SaaS app and customize it. It wouldn't have worked. We would have given up. But how are you going to manage it now once they get there? Well, you know, I again, to your company lovable, which man, congrats on that investment because that company was going to go out of business four times.

And I told Anton, "Every time they say you're going out of business, you add a hundred million in revenue." Six hundred million in revenue. And four times two hundred million, three hundred million. Oh, yeah, it's going to be absorbed into the frontier model. right? I mean, I've got lovable, I've got Synthesia.io got Synthesia.io got Synthesia.io that was the first investor in nice 10 years ago, maybe, that that are just that's just killing it, right? I've got AMI, which is Jan LeCun's world model. We haven't even talked about world models versus LLM and transformers, right?

Because everything we do is built on text and pictures. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing's going to beat text and pictures in 10 years, right? And but what's going to drive it? And like people say, "Well, AI is so smart, it's going to change everything." I'm like, "Okay, if you tell AI if you show AI a video of a 2-year-old on a high chair with a sippy cup, the AI the 2-year-old knows if you push the sippy cup over the edge, edge, edge, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. mom's going to come running and the AI's the kid's going to start laughing." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. AI's got no clue what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None, right? Would you If you're at a corner blindfolded and you have to cross the street, would you rather have a video Would you rather have your phone with AI or would you rather have a seeing eye dog? Yeah. Dog. Yeah. Dog. Yeah. Dog. I'm taking the dog every time. yeah. It's not ready. Right? Right? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not ready. So, just think about how far we have to go. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, and all this Huge opportunity though. I mean, the world models are crazy because you have videos available on YouTube and just we we have the world there. So, kind of world models are not enough. It's not enough. They have to wear gloves and you're Now they've got people in Manila like doing recipes So, I invested in this company matter.com and they're launching satellites just to take and they do spectrography where they take um use the satellites to take videos of everything underneath them and use a spectrum I don't even understand all the in order to be able to convert it into a world model that will provide algorithms that other world models can use, right?

And there's just no way that the the future of AI doesn't include video. Well, I mean, it's it's a huge part of it and as the inference and the the back to the build out of these data centers, as we wonder what's going to happen, people wanting to use more tokens, and then these world-building and video, man, that takes a magnitude more tokens. like, if I'm going to be wrong on the data centers, it's going to be because of video. of video. of video. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? Right? Right? And world models and robotics, which is all related, yeah. Yeah. And then, in robotics, it's, you know, it's related, but just we still got a long way to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh health, you look great, by the way. I don't know what's going on. You got the red What do you got? Red of True Tie? What's on the menu here? What's off the menu? menu? menu? Follow me on Instagram, mcuban, and I just I'm eating better, not I mean, you look better now than 20 years ago.

years ago. years ago. Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, you Tam helps, too, right? The Tam, but I mean, you you look thin and fit, and listen, we're getting up there now. We're not kids anymore. Um this is definitely going to help uh AI all the work being done No, I mean, and I use it, too. Like, I invested in a company called Open Evidence. Evidence. Evidence. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, which is just for medical, right? And um I used it, and like, I have two I have one supplement I have to take cuz my iron levels are low, and I have to take this one medication.

And I was taking them at the same time, and couldn't understand why I was having problems. I run it through Open Evidence, and I said, "Here's everything I'm taking. Here's everything I'm eating." And they're like, "No, you got to do this. You know, when you get up to pee at 3:00 in the morning, take this medication. When you get you know Getting old sucks. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. I was I was right there with you last night. What's going on? What's going on, right?

Um and so, you know, but it's it's it's for health, it's going to make a huge difference, but it's not going to replace doctors. replace doctors. replace doctors. No. No. No. But, I mean, it it is pretty amazing. Are Are you on Whoop or your Apple Watch? Watch? Watch? yeah. yeah. yeah. Yeah, I mean, the Apple the the Whoop, plus getting your blood test, just self-directed health care with AI, man, you're going to get some early wins, and then when you do go talk to your doctor, your doctor, your doctor, No, you have it right there, right?

I have my blood tested up, you know, Now, it's like all it three to six months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And I've been doing it for 10 years, so I know all my trends. Wow. Wow. Wow. And so And so And so So, you were doing it before Function and Superpower and all of those. I you could go look up Mark Cuban blood test on Twitter, right? X. And I would get into it with doctors like 8 10 years ago and just saying you're going to need this for your benchmarks.

And um but it's only going to get better. Yeah. And what's what's going to be really interesting, we had this big data moment moment moment and it was like, okay, yeah, we're storing all this data, but we didn't have any intelligence against it. Now that's incredible with Apple is now putting that data, they're doing studies. I don't know if you've been invited to studies on your Apple Watch. And I'm like, well, this is going to get very interesting. Whoop just added blood panels. Yeah. So, now your sleep data, your steps, your heart rate, your respiratory, EKG, respiratory, EKG, respiratory, EKG, plus your blood work, That's pretty That's pretty That's pretty then if you can get your diet into it as well, well, well, Yeah, that's what I watch has in eye health, right?

health, right? health, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you're just going to get smarter. smarter. smarter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that'll make your doctors able to be smarter because 95% of medicine is guessing. You know, because you can't there's no way a doctor can memorize all the new that happens every single day. You just can't. But a doctor using these tools, having, you know, the empathy and the ability to communicate and the ability to see, to see, to see, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. right? Because again, there's you can't see.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you could have doctor, you know, why am I bleeding? Well, you got a blood looks like you got a gunshot wound, right? wound, right? wound, right? Yeah, he's not going to tell you that today. today. today. Yeah. Um Yeah. Um Yeah. Um when we look at the opportunity here, it's going to be a lot of change, a lot of talk about wealth disparity in the US. US. US. Uh Uh Uh Invest America, our friend Brad Gerstner and our friend Michael Dell, another great Texan.

And thanks for welcoming I'm I'm I'm enjoying my time in Texas. Yeah. I mean, it's great. I love Texas, man. Texas, man. Texas, man. Texas is fun. It's kind of like the heat's kind of like this, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we have air conditioning. We do have air conditioning. There there's a record number of air conditioners coming from China to Europe this summer. this summer. this summer. You know, I looked at what companies installed them and everything. Oh, you always got to trade. You always got to trade.

but there's no real sold out. They're all being shipped here from China at the moment. But really interestingly, you know, feels like feels like feels like entrepreneurship, which has been our shared passion for many decades. Hey, investing, another shared one. Giving people access to public markets, Invest America. Invest America. Invest America. We have this dueling narrative, socialism in America, capitalism. And it feels like this is the in our lifetimes, you and I are close in age. This is the most fevered we've ever seen it. I mean, we have states Maybe not since the '60s or '70s.

I I I missed that. I was born 1970. You were born, I guess, 1943. 23. 23. 23. 23. I always joke he's my older brother. don't I? don't I? don't I? You look good for 1923. But you know, it's this is pretty polarized. What's your take on the the socialist There's two things here. One, all the DSA stuff is local. Right. It's really easy to be Mandami and in New York when you have a budget, you get to control it. And it's local, right? You got elected, you just do and you have to balance the budget.

And you'll see it in Michigan and wherever else. I don't think it's going to be game-changing, but the more important thing is the people who are doing this are the people who are best at social media. media. media. Right. Right. Right. You know, because the algorithms drive how people vote in the United States. I I can't speak to the rest of the world more than anything else. Whoever controls the algorithm controls, you know, the election in many cases. Trump knows how to use it. And what what do Mandami, you know, what what is unique about Mandami relative to Trump?

He's what, 31, 32 years old? Yep. Yep. Yep. His whole adult life has been Trump. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And social media. He studied it. And the two together. Yeah. And the the guy in same thing. So, if you If you're good at AI, I mean, at um algorithm, you know, driving algorithms, whether it's flooding the zone or you know, like Trump's saying, "They're eating cats and dogs." dogs." dogs." Yeah, it's just attention. Yeah, and it's just, you know, defining the algorithms, cuz whatever you search for, you get more of.

And if they can get you to search for what they're saying and get show your interest, then you're going to just get Mandami 24/7. Mandami 24/7. Mandami 24/7. Yep. Yep. Yep. And you'll get the positive sides of Mandami, or if you happen to be on the other side of the aisle, and you are, you know, looking at stuff that's counter to that, you'll get more of that. We don't feel like But one other piece I think is starting to change that, and that's the large language models.

models. models. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. The thing that I think will save us as a world more than anything else in terms of um information availability and reducing the information asymmetry as it applies to politics, are large language models. Because large language models have to be as literate or and literal and honest as they possibly can. Truth-seeking. Truth-seeking. Truth-seeking. Yeah, truth-seeking, better way to put it. Yeah. So, they they have to seek truth. Otherwise, you'll lose trust in them. them. them. And the last thing, you know, Claude, OpenAI needs is what, you know, they're lying their stuff about this for Yeah, their currency is getting you the correct answer and the correct knowledge.

Social media's currency is keeping you engaged. It's two different missions. missions. missions. Totally different missions, right? And so, you're not going to get rid of social media, but I think people, as they become more and certain with their politics, are going to go more and more and more to large language models and say, "Who should I vote for?" Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And the large language model's going to come back and say, "Well, what do you think about this? What are your interests in this and that and that?" And they'll give you honest answers.

Yeah, and if you ask it, "Hey, what's a reasonable immigration policy?" It'll give you a reasonable immigration policy, which is like, yeah, maybe shut the border and do a point based system like Canada, New Zealand. Whatever it may be, right? Yeah. I've done the same thing and it's impressive. Very impressive. You know, my favorite troll now is like JD or, you know, AOC will, you know, they'll come out with whatever their craziness is on either side of the aisle and then I'm like, "Act Rock, please vet these claims." Be as objective and factual as possible.

Check your work. And then it just replies to them. So, I've been just totally trolling Stephen Miller. Um Miller. Um Miller. Um Oh my gosh. Who, you know, he's like anti-immigration. I'm very passionate about like legal immigration and recruiting great people because You need them. We need them. If every cuz running a basketball team, every time you get Dirk Nowitzki, somebody else doesn't have them on the team. You get Jalen Brunson, he's not on the Mavericks anymore. Now he's on the Knicks. You know, like know, like know, like Well, that's why we come to these things in Europe, right?

Because great talent, right? Smart people. Obviously, you guys are geniuses for being here, you know? Um But Um But Um But But at the same time, there's a different vibe in every European country and India and the whole rest of the world, right? And I think you're starting to see some entrepreneurs leave us us us Yep. Yep. Yep. to come here and that's scary. And hopefully, you know, large language models seeking the truth will help educate people away from what the algorithms tell them. Yeah, I think it's like an important You optimistic now?

optimistic now? optimistic now? Um it's been pretty chaotic. But we're seeing such great progress. You optimistic about Let's start with America and then we'll go to humanity. Um Yeah, no, I mean you know, like every country, we have our issues. Um ours just happen to be kind of insane. Um Um Um It is pretty wild. Yeah. Um Yeah. Um Yeah. Um But the good news is, you know, we have term limits for our president. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And And And Yeah. And it seems like 12 uh three terms is going to be the one for president.

president. president. I mean I mean I mean You going to run? I mean, I hope you do, man. I would love to be your press secretary. That would be a We'd have so much fun. much fun. much fun. fun, though. fun, though. fun, though. We'd have fun. We would have fun. Well, if he decides to run for a third term, then I'll run, but he's but he's but he's Yeah. Okay, that's good. That's breaking news. I mean, I uh honestly like um if you think about what we need, I think, in leadership, executives who can I think you know, who are like post-money, post needing to make a living.

living. living. You mean that No, I'm not going to even go there. go there. go there. Well, and then maybe who are doing it for love of country and maybe some amount of civic pride or No, I get what you're saying, right? And it's just like you know, in the US what the Democrats don't know how to actually do anything. Right. Right. Right. You know, they know how to take whatever happens and extrapolate that to the end of the world and the end of democracy, right?

right? right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But and the Republicans on the other hand, you know, do crazy right? Like they don't care about the people in the country, they don't, you know, there's no connection to people, there's no empathy. And so you know, we're but um in the short term, but I think as we get past this next the midterms and the next presidential election. I think we go back to normalcy. I think we'll get back to normal. I think people want it and you know, the thing that's been really eye-opening for me having lived in New York, California, and now Texas you know, in Texas we're spending half as much money per uh sometimes less.

I think it's two and 2.2 times as much is spent on each citizen in New York uh and uh we spend half as much, right? It's $6,000 per person, they spend like 14 or something, 12 to 14. And uh the quality of life is better. But on the flip side, New York contributes more to the federal treasury, right? Than Texas does. And And would think it should be the opposite, right? Just because of the business and how things are run. So, there are trade-offs. Yeah, but it's it's changing.

Like, what do you think about all of us moving to Austin and like Texas? You got smart, obviously. smart, obviously. smart, obviously. For obvious reason, particularly, you know, know, know, like the wealth tax is just dumb dumb crazy. dumb crazy. dumb crazy. They tried it here. Yeah, it didn't work, yeah. And they did it for about 2 years in France. France. France. Did they Yeah, I don't know. But, you know, when Elizabeth Warren first proposed the wealth tax, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I found and she said, "Well, we have these models and everything." So, I found the economist at UC Berkeley and I said, "Would you share your model with me or at least tell me about it?" He goes, I'm like, "Was it more than 1 year?" And he goes, "No, it was just 1 year." I'm like, "Did you do any behavioral analysis to see how people would respond to the changes?" No.

And so, so, so, you know, whether it's Madami, Elizabeth Warren, whether it's California, it's it's showmanship more than reality. Yeah, and I think people are forgetting that people are mobile, you know, like in the US, [clears throat] yeah. In the US, it's pretty extraordinary. You got Travis, Sachs, myself, Elon, just a bunch of folks have all of a sudden just shown up. I was there first. You were. I remember talking to you about it. And the thing that's amazing to me is you know, in California, they won't let you build anything.

And then we go to um I come to Texas, I buy a ranch, and I ask the guy like, "Hey, can I like put a solar farm in here?" He's like, "On your ranch?" I'm like, "Yeah, here." He's like, "Oh, son, at your ranch, you you can do that." And I'm like, "Can I can I like build like Trust me, they do it in the cities themselves. Try doing that in the city of Austin. of Austin. of Austin. but just outside of it, you can build.

And housing prices have gone three three years in a row, housing prices and rents have gone down. When you build a company in Austin now, and I'm sure it's like that in Dallas and Houston and San Antonio, Antonio, Antonio, when I have founders move there, the entire pressure is released. People can own a home. And I was like, "Wow, is that a world still go to Silicon Valley? That like drives me piss I I think if you're a first-time founder, nothing better in terms of soaking in it.

But when you're a second-time founder you soaking in it but what they don't tell you the it right? Yeah, it's tough. I think second-time founders have now realized if I build it in Texas or Nevada or Florida, I'm going to just all the talent's going to come. That's people's heads so wrong. Right? So whether it's Travis Mike By the way, I I've known Michael Dell since we were 22 and I used to do business with him way back when. Um but just the In Texas it's just like build your company and go.

Yes. Yes. Yes. In the Valley it's like So are you series A? Are you series B? Are you series C? series C? series C? A lot of distractions, yeah. 25 years I've been waiting for my Knicks to win a championship. And And And And you played a significant role. No, the Spurs played a significant role. They [clears throat] should have kicked your ass. And why didn't they? Why didn't they? I think it was coaching, lack of experience. experience. experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you're up Put Put aside the 29, right?

You're up in the fourth quarter of every game. Wemby throws it into the back of some guy, misses two free throws, De'Aaron Fox goes the wrong way. A lot of mistakes. Yeah, and you'd be talking about firing Mike Brown. Mike Brown. Mike Brown. I mean I mean I mean it was a We were concerned when he got hired and getting rid of Tibbs. And oh my god, Tibbs. But J.B. was the real deal, right? He's my Indiana boy, OG, right? He You know, he saved you guys.

So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you had Jalen Brunson. Yep. Yep. Yep. Um Um Um He left and that was kind of destiny. His family wanted to come to New That's what he wanted. I mean, I could show you a text where his agent, you know, texted me and said he wants his own team. own team. own team. He wants his own team. Right. Yeah, he was ready to go before And I I texted or emailed you and I said, "What's the story?" And like this is what we're going to base the franchise on.

You said, "He's really good. good. good. You know what I love? He's a great guy. That's the best part about J.B. He's just really a good human. I I I I was there uh for the fifth game, six rows behind the bench. the bench. the bench. That's cool. That's cool. That's cool. And man, I I just cried. It's been so many years. And you got your chip, too, with Dirk. Yep. Yep. Yep. It's so amazing how sports plays such a role in so many people's lives, yeah?

Especially now, look at the World Cup. I mean, it's incredible. just like sports has just changed everything. And you know, like I've been to four World Cup games in Dallas, and I hate soccer, football. Right. Right. Right. Right? Right? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hate it, but just the whole scene, the vibe, the energy, you can't beat it. It's like going to a Knicks game, going to a Mavs game, same thing. Yeah, and Yeah, and Yeah, and the NBA is it is it peaked? It it It sounds like sounds like sounds like It's hard to say.

I mean, you know, for fans, no, cuz I mean, it just grows on social media. You know, I I I went um I was walking in Paris, and there was a basketball store, you know, and it had Wemby jerseys and Gobert jerseys and everything. And so, I mean, it's just growing globally. growing globally. growing globally. Yeah, it Is Wemby the real deal? Yeah, he's got he he got humbled, though. though. though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is good for him. It's like Dirk in 2006 got humbled and came back better.

Wemby will come back bigger, stronger, better. better. better. Yeah, it's amazing how he went from this like incredibly like incredibly like incredibly I don't know, there was a magic about him to No, he's a villain. And he turned into a villain. Cuz it was New York and 50-some years, right? And just the circumstances. And you know, San Antonio thought they had it in the bag. Everybody It's like I went to Indiana University, right? And if anybody here follows football in the States, like we were the ultimate underdog.

We had not had, you know, we had not won 10 games. We had We beat more top 10 teams last year than we did in 100-plus years of the program. And so, that that just changes people's attitude. people's attitude. people's attitude. You were very much involved in rule changes. And we're we're going to get on AI next, but it's just great to talk to you about this, since we're both such super fans of the NBA. Seems like the rule changes, the apron, and and and you know, how punitive it is has created a lot more parity in the league and nobody knows who's going to win.

Like Well, because you have to break up your team, right? Because at some point OKC will have to break up their team. That's why they collect all the draft assets because you can't have three max players. players. players. No. No. No. And if one of them turns out to be hurt or not what you expected, Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. then you're in deep right? And so the second apron is just a complete game changer. And you have to be so much better at putting together a team than you were before.

And you have to get lucky. Like the Spurs have Wemby on a rookie contract. You know, the the OKC has got, you know, hatchet on a rookie contract. He's not on a rookie contract any longer. Right. Right. Right. So they have to be even more careful. And so it really changes the strategy behind building a roster. So we we're going to see back-to-backs or any more No chance. No chance. No chance. No, I No, I No, I Maybe back-to-backs, but not a What do they call when you have three?

The three-peat. three-peat. three-peat. Three-peat, yeah. Three-peat, yeah. Three-peat, yeah. No more three-peats. There can be back-to-backs. Like, you know, know, know, if Jaylen Jay Williams Jay Dubb hadn't gotten hurt for OKC, I think they would have beat San Antonio and I think they would have beat the Nets. I was worried about them versus the Knicks. I knew we could beat the Spurs. But I was concerned about the know you could beat the Spurs. them. Come on. We beat them two out of three of the games of the year.

We spanked them. I knew it would be like a I I said Knicks in six. It was Knicks in five. five. five. barely beat the Hawks. And then Oh, come on now. We we we were tweaking the offense and we just had to get Kat to buy in as points. And he was just talking AI. Yeah, let's talk AI. Um Um Um But it is so great to be a champion. God, it was Where's your ring? They didn't give you a ring. a ring. a ring.

I They didn't yet. No, I'm going to get it at the ring ceremony. yet. yet. yet. You got one. I you know, I always was like, man, I got to follow Cubes and get, you know, a piece of a team. team. team. me you want to buy a team. wanted to get like a, you know, a piece of the Knicks, and now it's like my net worth doing great. The value of the team is disconnected from reality. I mean, my only chance is to call like Elon and be like Yeah.

like Yeah. like Yeah. the valuations is it's not driven by attendance, it's not driven by wins or losses, it's driven by subscriptions to streaming services. streaming services. streaming services. Wow. Wow. Wow. And and it's going to be interesting to see because it used to be we looked at ratings, TV ratings, and people said the NBA was underperforming versus everybody else. Now the Knicks play, obviously there's some pin up um demand there, but what really matters is the number of subscribers Peacock gets, ESPN gets. It's the ratings sell for ad sales, but it's more subscribers.

I mean, I literally had to subscribe to like I think one or two more services just just just Well, that's the whole point, right? And did you keep them is the question. Yeah, I'll keep them, sure. I mean But there will there be churn? If there's churn, there's churn, there's churn, who knows what happens with valuations. If there's not, valuations keep on going. going. going. Wow. Wow. Wow. It's so crazy. All right, listen. There's your uh 45 minutes with Mark Cuban, the one and only. only.

only. I'm going all in. I'm going all