Kelly Clarkson: From Fatherless Childhood, To Pop Icon, To Emmy-winning TV Star | Guy Raz

Key Takeaway

When life feels chaotic, don’t wait to feel perfect before showing up. Choose one meaningful responsibility today, bring your attention to the person or task in front of you, and let action create momentum. Kelly Clarkson’s experience suggests that temporarily setting aside your own “dumpster fire” to serve, create, or connect can improve your mood—while still making space later to process what you feel through journaling, voice notes, or another creative outlet.

Episode Overview

Guy Raz talks with Kelly Clarkson about building a career across music and television while raising children, navigating public pressure, and protecting her authenticity. Clarkson reflects on how adversity, curiosity, consistent creative practice, and a less perfectionistic mindset have helped her sustain a long career and create through personal upheaval.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Kelly Clarkson: From Fatherless Childhood, To Pop Icon, To Emmy-winning TV Star | Guy Raz from How I Built This. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

she was raised by a single mom had a difficult relationship with her dad who wasn't around okay if the person that lives is it can let you down in such a huge way the one looking out for you your protector I think you realize Kelly Clarkson an Emmy award-winning talk show host Grammy award-winning artist one of the most popular artists of this era you took this piece of advice from the most unlikable person on Earth literally most unlikely stayed with you yeah well just the advice so I would just kill myself over like the smallest thing going wrong if I'm being honest I'm just a really good actor in life well yeah you just show up and you smile and eventually you feel happier because you've put your own BS aside in your own dumpster fire of a life sometimes aside and you you um no one knows your exact life should I hold on and try more should I is this the point where you you've tried enough and just honestly I'm going to ask you a lot about your new record and about your your life and but I want to start Kelly by asking you about the Relentless pace of because you do so many different things you're you're I mean it's so wild because you could say you could self-identify as so many different things right Mom and and pop star and talk show host I mean you've wanted Emmy as a talk show host like it's a completely crazy career the last time I I interviewed you for a show I did with Spotify called the rewind this was before you launched the show and yeah for I think meaning yeah and now you are I mean this is a full-time full full-time job yeah so how do you let's just let me just ask you about this I mean you're doing two episodes sometimes recording two two and a half episodes a day you do 180 a year how do you maintain your energy because as a host of a of a television show you have to be not just present with your guests but you have to be there for your audience and energetic and a happy and how do you do that um well I would say 85 percent of the time I'm just naturally yeah curious like I'm naturally almost to an annoying Point um very energetic so I'm you know not even having caffeine so I'm naturally that person I've always had like three or four jobs my whole life like even I think starting at 17 I started having three at least three um just because I I knew that I had to make it happen nobody could help me right so like I I had to like if I wanted something like a car I had to buy it so I had to go do it so um I think a lot of that drive just comes from necessity like when I'm younger and then now I think you get used to like a certain pace and I mean I know it seems like I work a lot of things but it's really a normal working like you know for whatever you want to say normal is I guess but the average household like you know I take my kids to school then I show up at work then I'm home you know 4 30 or 5 p.m and you know then we hang out more I'm with them all night and like so it's like a normal mom dad like kind of I just do different jobs different days is usually what it is so I I usually schedule it to where I'm always like well my kids are at school I'm doing work and then when they're not I'm I'm at home so it I think it's a it's time management which by the way I am horrible at so I have a very great team that helps me do that but I will say coming back to that answer if I'm being honest um that 15 of the time um I'm just a really good actor in life yeah like you have to like smile and make it you know what it is because you don't want to ruin the experience for someone and you just I think it is if I get to work and I'm just so exhausted and it's just been a hard time or whatever even like the last years have been especially the first of that those three years were really hard you just show up and you smile and eventually you feel happier like if you kind of if you you know kind of force yourself to hey you got to do this you gotta Pony up and and you show up and you smile on you and then by the end of the day it almost makes you feel better because you've put your own BS aside and your own dumpster fire of a life sometimes aside and you you um focus on other people that helps too so I want to go back and and because I think it's related to what you're doing now which is you do a lot of things and I actually think that I think and we'll we'll go back and explore this I think you do a lot of things because they feed the it's like a creativity Loop like it like the talk show doing that feeds your ability to write music or or to perform better and even the Kellys yeah yeah right and and to to present and to do all these things and and you know you were not I mean as a kid you I remember when we when I last interviewed you um you know telling the story about singing in the shower and a lot of kids sing in the shower but you know you were different there was a teacher who recognized you who heard you singing in the hallway in middle school I was like you should join the choir and that really kind of opened your world up right because you were a kid who sang but then you became a kid who was in the choir and then you became a kid who was really talented in the choir and then on stage in the high school plays and it was that right yeah and I think um coming back to that it is all about that's why on the show I love covering these stories especially because I relate to them um it's so important for kids like no matter what your background no matter where you're from to find something that you feel I I just think that changed my whole personality it changed who I am like once you find out like oh I'm I'm I'm I feel special at this I feel like this is something I'm good at like that I mean I became more of an extrovert I became more confident in my own skin I think all of that kind of that domino effect sets off so many things that you you just don't see coming you can't even see the end right or or what sorry or um or what's going to happen in the future and I think that's so important like we have those people that that do pay attention those teachers those Guardians whoever's around them that really point out and find something it's so important for kids to be trying everything because I think it really does change the trajectory of your life and I'm like living proof Kelly um you grew up in in a pretty small place in Texas and and I remember you talking about how I mean everybody kind of knew each other and you couldn't really walk out of the house without running into somebody you knew yeah and then you became this obviously hugely famous person right um starting with Idol and then now you know 25 million records later that you sold and I'm curious like because on the one hand you're you're recognized forever ego and you're very famous but on the other hand you're also extremely approachable and you have to be because you're a talk show host you are now asking people about their lives and about their stories and it's not of course it's about you in the sense that you're the host of the show but it's really about the person who is the guest on the show so I wonder how do you well that that's refreshing actually for it not to be just about me right yeah so it's interesting and refreshing for me to actually interview people and the T you know the tables have been turned so but I also just want to come back to like I'm I think I've never and this was not um uh celebrated uh notion when I first started but I with people that I worked with because it's different and that's fine but like I've always been myself and I've always been like the same person I've always been approachable even before the talk show I just am from a small town I love people my kids are literally little me's walking around never met a stranger like so we're we're just those people right so and I I don't I think the thing is is that people have tried to mold me like in my career like the music side of like well this is what you're supposed to do this is how you're supposed to act don't say this because then they'll you'll let them I've just always just been like completely opposite of whatever media training was supposed to teach us when we were in like Idol and they put us through that like it's like I just don't I feel like if you can't be yourself then what's the point it's exhausting to try and do something else and here's the thing too not everybody likes it and that's okay like I don't like everybody you know what I'm saying like watching everything so like or listening to everything and that's okay I think from the very beginning even on idol like they made us like log in on this Idol on fox.com and that was like very detrimental to a lot of us like to have to sit there on camera and read things people are saying about us and like so just think from the beginning to read the the feedback that you're getting from viewers on camera like I had two camera right on camera because they didn't really know what they're doing our season they were just trying to figure it out and it was kind of blowing up before they died too right yeah yeah but it's just it being a part of that season one was just like it it really showed me like what it the effects that it has like not just on me but everybody else like I people would cry afterwards because they'd read these things and it's like oh my God we should not be doing this so I think from the very beginning I don't like drink my own Kool-Aid I don't read stuff that's like positive or negative I don't that's been a really big thing for me that I don't like to do because I think it's a very slippery slope and then I think when you don't do that you're capable of just maintaining who you are and people might like it and dig it and like tune in or they might not and that's okay I think ego plays a big part of that with people in the industry they try and be all things to all people you're never gonna win and like coming back to growing up in a small town I've known that from like I'm never gonna win like on a small scale you learn that as a child so it's really just the same thing blown up to me and how did you come to that I mean I know you know you had I mean for from and from you know from a variety of different perspectives you could look at your story and say oh she was raised by a single mom had a difficult relationship with her dad who wasn't around they didn't have money growing up like she you know there were many reasons that why you could have grown into like a resentful angry young woman right and and that didn't happen and do you think that is because you chose for that not to happen that's an interesting question um like you decided that you were not going to be angry and resentful and bitter I mean I don't know I'm just I'm curious because I think I think a lot of things play into that I'm not sure that it's one thing because I've off I've often asked myself that same question of like you know you look at people even that I grew up around that like had similar situations and went down a very different path and it's like well why was mine you know I don't I don't know sometimes innately I think we're born who we are like I think I think that exists a little bit but then behavioral things you know um nurture kicks in and I think I I think it's a little bit of everything I think although I didn't have a relationship with my father I think from an early point when you find out the person who you're supposed to be the most important right like the one looking out for you your protector the your home like that safety thing when that from a very early age is just non-existent I think you realize in a in a not a good sense but I think in a healthy way of me filtering it is like okay if the person that lives is it can let you down in such a huge way everyone's capable of that and so there's kind of a little bit of freedom in that that you don't put people up on pedestals and you don't and you you don't expect people to let you down necessarily but you you know the possibility is there and you know that like people are human even like my father like I didn't know him but like at the same time he I do truly believe he was doing the best he probably could with what he had like with you know growing up with transactional love however that was like you know I just and and you know chose to do things because that's all he knew I don't think that he maliciously was like I'm gonna make her feel abandoned I don't think that was ever you know the issue I I think people just are who we are because of circumstance sometimes and because they don't know that's not in them to even know the difference right so and I don't know I think a lot of that is spirituality as well I did grow up like learning from an early age to have a servant's heart and to look outside yourself that can be detrimental because it's a beautiful thing but it can also set you up for like never looking out for yourself and always looking out for everybody else so there's a you know balance there um but I I don't really know the answer I do think that there have been a village of people in and out of my life you know certain seasons and I think all those people play a part and I think it does matter who you surround yourself with um but I don't really know the the right answer for that but I feel grateful because I do know a lot of people that had very similar childhoods that they didn't have opportunity either and and they go a very different way so I don't necessarily know why but I think that we're all very capable of being either one of those people right so I don't think we're exempt from it or above it yeah do you know where that that sort of that confidence came from and when I say confidence I don't mean like this kind of boastfulness but this kind of quiet Converse like I I think about you moved to LA when you were 18 and within a year or two you got actually we're offered contracts record labels uh came to you and you you turn them down because you didn't feel like they were the right fit and most people in those circumstances would have taken those opportunities but but you felt like I think though when you have nothing to lose so there's something to that yeah I I had the opportunity randomly from this job one of my jobs was working at Six Flags Over Texas and I did the shows I sang and danced and whatever and there's a part of me that loves the idea of being like your own boss and being very much a a nomad you know just traveling just being a nomad I love that I've always been that kid I've always wanted to do that and I had the rant most random opportunity from on this girl crying her roommate bailed on her to move to LA and I spontaneously was just like I'll go and she was like what and I was like yeah what the hell let's do it like I'll I'll go I mean either gonna have a lot of jobs working here or more opportunity there I think so you know just randomly moved and I don't I don't necessarily I think it's just I've always been bold like I've always been like a person because you have nothing to lose so it's like what I move out there it doesn't work out I move back all right like it's like I think when people have something to lose or they feel like you know I always think this for my kids sometimes I mean I'm very happy for them that they have all this opportunity and they have they'll never have to want for anything like they'll never but I think also with that um they're gonna I'm gonna try and navigate it to where they don't but I think that there's a very high probability that they're never going to know what it's like to have to do it that necessity is there they're never going to know that kind of struggle that I had or other people had living on a mattress and eating ramen noodle for every meal like because it's 59 cents so it's like you know they're just never gonna have that um so you know I do think it's kind of a blessing when you when you don't have anything to lose you're like well that'll just hell I'll just try it but also those contracts like even the things that were offered to me in La when I got there I mean those were mean contracts like those were literally we'll sign you if you change everything about yourself like yeah I mean I've literally weighed 124 wet like you know I'm saying like I was very hungry honestly and didn't have a lot and and they were like oh well we need you to lose 20 pounds I'm like oh I'm not even that's not even possible my ass alone weighs 20 pounds like I'm like I can't like that's not even possible so and and also like oh well we get it was just so much control right off the bat and it's like that's not worth it to me I'm a hell of a waitress I'm good at it I love people kind of coincides with what I do with the talk show I love hosting I love like I was good at it like so it's like it didn't I've never had that like because I have other people in my life too that are like things are beneath them and it's like you can't live like that like you can't you can't live like some job is beneath you it's a job and it pays but I think certain people look at at life and go oh well that's not what we're supposed to be and I'm like who says Society that's not success like who says that and I think I've just had that mentality in my whole life because I've had to work and I think people just have ego and pride and and what Society tells you success is they have all of that getting in their way of just like living their life and I've just never had that I don't know why I think though it has to do with when you have nothing to lose you aim for anything yeah I remember you know you you're talking about how what drove you initially was you want to be a backup singer you wanted a chance to maybe I don't know maybe have a chance to sing with like another famous singer as a backup singer oh my God I would have loved it I'm so jealous I'm times of my singers my friends that sing with all these artists I'm like oh it's like and honestly what's funny is I'm getting to do things that I've always wanted to do in my music career I'm getting to funnel that creativity through the TV show like sing with people like Cynthia rivo was one of my favorite things I've ever done pink I love baby face I love like Dwayne Johnson like all these random things like yeah that I get to do that I've always wanted to do singing Whatever genre I want I've always wanted to do like so I'm getting to do that funny enough through this outlet with a talk show yeah I mean at the time when you started like what was driving you was to to be a backup singer and what eventually happened was you became obviously a hugely famous and successful singer in your own right obviously you were ambitious you wanted to do something interesting with your life but it was a different type of ambition it it's almost like you weren't seeking out Fame and Fortune when you came to La as an 18 year old it happened here you are um you know at this point in your life and so what is it that you I don't know that's kind of what's the engine behind why you do what you do now I just I don't know I've I've had um I think one of the engines is I've had people die at very young age in my life like kids like I've had I've had things pointed out towards like you you I think we think we have forever right oh we'll do it I'll do that next year I'll do that and we don't you don't know you're not promised that so I think a lot of that is seeing that at a young age as well of like oh my God like that can ha it could be over like I I just want to chase whatever I can chase while I'm here while I'm able to chase something like you know so I I don't know I've always been and I think moving around a lot as a kid too like um that makes you highly adaptable so that while it was very hard um sometimes was also very helpful so um I don't know I've always been um I don't know that we're supposed to use this term I'm trying to figure out another term to use but I I I've always had that Gypsy kind of mentality of like always kind of living in a suitcase I never thought I'd get married I never thought I'd have kids like I I always just wanted to go right um I like Adventure I like change like a lot of people are afraid of it I love it I thrive on it um yeah and because we're only given so much time here like why would you not want to experience everything you possibly could um and I've just always been that kid and I think things happen in your life that point you know the fragility of light point out that fragility of life and and you know and it's not infinite you know so it's like I think I think maybe that affected me um to where I became like this but also I'm an artist at the core of me like whether it's me a horrible painter but I love doing it not great at drawing I love doing it I love any kind of creative thing um so I I think constantly if I'm not like that I've noticed in my life that I can go very dark and I can um if I'm not productive you know it's almost like you hear and people retire right and it's like they kind of fade away and it's like because I think we need to be productive in some sense I'm I'm curious about something you said which was the the talk show kind of is opened up a whole new like a series of just creative channels right because you can now like do a duet with the rock or you know sing with um with pink who I know is is somebody you've admired for a long time or love her they're all these different kind of cool things you can do and when I was thinking about that and looking at this this new and listening to this new record um and there's some really I mean Steve Martin is on this record Steve Martin the actor plays banjo on I hate love yeah I never got to actually I still haven't met Steve Martin because I had this idea and crazy like I didn't think he would actually do it and and then when he could I was doing the talk show when he could record so my producer got to go do that with him and I didn't I haven't actually met him yet and I've been a fan for life because I'm alive how did you even have that idea like hey let's put Steve Martin playing the banjo on the record well I so during covet I already knew he was a musician before covid but I but I I didn't really know the death of it until during covet I went down this just Rabbit Hole one day and was just watching him he had released all these things during covet and I was like this dude is so cool like he's so rock and roll and like I don't even think he gets it like I don't you know like I'm like I don't even think you know how rad you are and and then I ended up writing this song called I hate love and there's um there's like there's stories behind why I use those two movies to reference and I hate love the song and it's the notebook and it's complicated two of favorite films but like one I feel like is real life and one I feel like is farce but like anyway but anyway I just feel like it's a long shot um so I ended up using those um as in the story of the song and I literally say at one point like you know you can have Gosling I'll take Steve Martin like and then I thought I wonder if he would do it so he's mentioned in the song and then um he did and he I he I guess he loved that he was mentioning this song too he thought that was funny like how it was used so um but I never actually got to meet him yet um this this record is described as an arc of an entire relationship um and I I read that you you mentioned how you wrote like 25 songs like you know in a few weeks like obviously in you know at the time of of the end of your your marriage uh would be the beginning of the end of your marriage um and I you know I know that the these past three years for you you've talked about a little bit have been um to say the least rough um tell me about writing the writing process and how you how you just sat down and what came out of you that ended up on this record um a lot of these songs well all the songs were really written like two and a half three years ago but a lot of these songs were written at like 35 000 feet in the air and it was like I would go to work and because we were still figuring out just custody stuff right and like where and we want to make sure the kids are seeing both of us what not so it it would be like me coming home from work I was so tired I was working all week long and then right after work I'd take my kids to the airport I'd fly them to Montana and Tim I'd have to fly back and then wake up at six something the next morning for work the next day so it was I was very tired one I was exhausted emotionally obviously um and I wrote most of those songs alone on those plane rides um just in the dark on my iPhone in my notes with my voice memos like I wrote literally almost every song like that um and just honestly crying and it's very therapeutic for me and it was just kind of figuring out should I hold on and try more should I is this the point where you you've tried enough like it's like it was honestly fig selfish it was just writing to because that's kind of my thing of um not just for music to release but just for me to figure out where am I at like there's so much going on and there's so many voices in my head um of like you know what to do what not to do God don't want to go through divorce like I don't my kids go you know there's just all this stuff right so it was it was just very therapeutic for me and I was doing it for selfish reasons um and then I would come home and record it in my bathroom just to like have it just to hold on to it so I could listen to it and then it slowly ended up you know like maybe this is very relatable and I think there's a reason for everything and a lot of the songs did not make it um because they're very literal and I don't think that store needs to be out there so yeah um I kept the songs that I felt like were broad enough that people that weren't so pointed and literal and and that people because I think the hard thing for me was it's for everyone like if you're going through something no one knows your exact life no one knows like even if my friends as hard as they would try no one knew what it was like to not only because none of my friends are married with kids for the most part none of my kids or none of my friends are in the public eye for the most part and none of my like there were just so many things like that no one could relate to so it's very you feel very isolated and alone at a time when Humanity felt isolated and alone because of covet so like it was just a lot like all while trying to smile for America on TV so it's you know that was a lot so um that's why a lot of the songs it's a very intense record I probably shouldn't have called it The Arc of relationship and I should have called it the roller coaster of a relationship because that's literally what it does and then the back and forth and the deciding and uh like you know it was just a very intense roller coaster ride so um and while those relationships can be exciting and sexy and intoxicating they can be very detrimental and very um just unhealthy so you know um but yeah most of those were written on a plane yeah just through tears so uh I I wonder how you a couple um a couple months ago we had Jason Sudeikis on the show talking about you know working on a show that is so joyful so and so lovely and also working through it very public exactly um and and just the challenge of being a public person and having a very private thing happen and by the way something that happens to hundreds of thousands of people every year marriage unfortunately statistics relationships yeah and and most people can can handle that or can deal with that in private but here you are you are the host of a show it's a joyful show you need to be there for the people there and and when you're struggling with you know challenges in your own life how do you do it how do you just well I don't know because you said 85 of it's you know me and 15 of it's acting but sometimes has to be 50 of it as acting I don't know well I mean as like in a whole percentage I mean so out of that 15 percentage uh that that could have been like several days where a hundred percent of the time I was just acting and and honestly it's not so much for others um it is your job so you show up and you do it um yeah but honestly it's very healing not to use it as escapism by any means just to act and push it all down but it's more of like it was helpful in the sense especially on my show we're usually covering stories we're we're showing just the Excellence of humanity like how people are killing it and like don't have a spotlight and should and just really great humans that is very healing when you're living in just the eye of the storm and you don't you cannot see outside of it it is and it was a beautiful thing to start out going and and I mean my manager and executive producer will tell you there were many days I would literally be bawling before with the first show at lunch at the end like it was like and we just have to fix makeup and keep going because it matters like it wasn't like a light it wasn't a light decision you know like and it matters and it hurts and I'm human so um but I think going out there getting that out and having that release with my inner group and and being able to release that and then going out there and focusing on someone else and focusing on like you know what it's not all bad like we we can do amazing things you know we can we are capable of more than these moments right so it that was very helpful and I don't know for him for Jason if it's because I watched it last so like maybe that was therapeutic as well so like have to read those lines and have to believe them as an actor and have to I think that can be healing yeah I I think so too making 180 shows a year is so much work and it requires so much mental and Creative Energy because you want to make every show different and you want to do something it's a different live audience every week and you every day every episode and you want them to and and for most of those people it's a one time they're going to see you and experience that and so imagine you want them to feel like there was some a connection there and every time how do you how does that write the process of just creating all those episodes and all doing all that work and all that collaboration how did that inform the way you thought about this record because it's different from your previous records it sounds different and you wanted it to sound different I have to imagine well what's funny is I think um so I cover songs every day on the show right and I do all different kind of genres and people are like oh what what was the music you were listening to when making this album and other than listening to just the kellyokies right before I sing them literally um which goes well sometimes and doesn't others um it's uh it those wasn't listening to anything I was just listening to my feelings and selfishly like I there wasn't any records like I think you can honestly hear influences of mine like from Green Day with like the chorus of mine very straight tone very um you know gang vocal thing um from Mariah to Florence to I think there are influences in there that um Annie Lennox with like um magic that little there's this whole part that reminds me of her bear record but um but anyway I think that there's influences in there but that was just all in the memory banks of like me growing up and loving music and listening I I wasn't listening to anything I literally like I'm able to compartmentalize so well so like when I go to my show I'm not thinking about my music like music Kelly Clarkson at all do you how important do you think um adversity is in in writing I mean this this record you you wrote This Record at a really challenging time in your life but at the same time it it kind of poured out of you right I mean um and I wonder whether I mean it's sort of strange to to because it's obviously you don't want nobody wants to go through that but at the same time um no tragedy Sparks inspiration sometimes often it does and it's interesting because I I've always kind of thought that even with like artists I've Loved growing up I mean Jagged a little pill inspired by a tragedy but touched by God the greatest records ever made so it's like so I think that that's true like um out of darkness comes light right so but I also think like it was very important for me for this record to depict all the different ways that chemistry can affect you so like even with like favorite kind of high that's not a dark song that's like a song about the high of what lust love whatever you want to call the beginning of a relationship right like all those things that you feel and the possibility and the opportunity and and there's just it's an open you know they're blank pages right so it's like exciting so there's that on there that has nothing to do with tragedy um and I think it was important for me to do that too because I wanted to point out on this record it's not all bad you know like maybe it ended badly but like it wasn't all bad so I think it was very important for me that's why I say the Arc of a relationship or the roller coaster of it um I do think for the most part um that's artists like even like I bet when you look at artists that are painters or sculptors I bet their best work was sometimes in tragic moments or chaotic moments in their life of figuring things out because that's what we do that's you getting it out it's you you that's your vessel right and people relate to that vessel because life isn't easy like life can can be easy at times but for the most part you're working your ass off like for the most part you're you're busting your ass to like get things done or or have positive change like it's you know it's it's work so yeah um so I I do think that's true though I think that you know a lot of times records that are the more real and raw and vulnerable you are the better the I mean those in my career too are the ones like because of you like you know piece by piece those are the songs that really resonate too with fans so like yeah I mean I think it's connecting it's us all connecting so you don't feel alone I I wonder is it it for you is there a difference when you are singing words that you wrote I mean this whole record you wrote every song yeah um versus uh not every song not high road no but most every song you wrote yeah and so is there a difference in how you sing that I mean I think of a song like stronger right which I still run to a few times a week it's on my list it's just such a propulsive powerful song and and the way you sing that is so powerful and propulsive and I wonder whether there's a difference when it's your song that you've also written and it's a song that somebody has written for you are there ones that I've compromised on records yes that I do not feel um are you or that I do not feel are like something I would have sang yeah um yes there are those records um but for the most part I'd say 95 of my music um if I didn't write it I have felt it yeah like you know and I relate to it and I am a hardcore fan of music of writers not just I mean I think if you I mean whatever if somebody wants to write their whole record that's fine but there are so many you know look at this record I would have missed out on high road and my mistake I would have missed out on those songs and those are important messages I 100 relate to so it's it's I think it's just important for me um and at this point in my career I don't have to do what I had to do when I was younger like um or what I felt I had to do rather um so at this point I I definitely I feel the words of Hiro just as I feel the roads of lighthouse on this record like I don't it doesn't matter that I wrote it I'm not I don't have that big of an ego um yeah I I think I think that there are amazing writers that I know that man this song needs to be heard like this is an incredible song and I don't feel like I have to be I feel like sometimes artists feel like if you're not writing all your music like I've been writing tons of my music my whole career um but I don't feel like you know I'd have missed out on Pink song broken and beautiful that came my way like she wrote that song I love that song I relate to that song I love pink um I you know there's other artists that I've covered like I didn't know same thing kind of have a Miss Independent when I wrote on that one I had no idea Christina Aguilera was right on it until my the liner so like I saw my album I was like oh I was like and I'm a huge fan of her so like I I love her music so it I think you miss out on opportunities um when you let your ego or Pride take over and like oh everything has to be my my pen my thought my heart like that kind of you know thing that's cool if it does but I do think that you're missing out on opportunities of really being the vessel for some incredible things that that come your way how do you get better at what you do right I mean you you've had this 20-year career and you probably are going to have another several many many decades ahead of you um recording and performing and so how do you feel like like what's your metric for saying you know this is this is even better than what I've done before I'm I'm so proud of this or this is really you know my best work or whatever it is uh you know I learned a lesson and um this person doesn't even know this or never knew this but um I I performed at this benefit years ago and you know I got on stage I was like oh I didn't all right job that was cool like um other artists were there and it was like oh my God they were cool too and then Tony Bennett got on stage and I was like I'm sorry what I was like he was like in his 80s I feel like and just when I say crushed us I mean we look like we were at a high school talent show and he looked like he was playing at Carnegie Hall like I was like it just and not to say all of us are bad we all did good job like a good job but it was like such a lesson in like his voice was even better like and it was a lesson I remember because I was introduced to him or whatever and and it was just a lesson of just listening to him talk and and just for the moment that it was and just hearing people that work with him too like he is constantly singing he is constantly doing stuff I think that that's the thing if you use your gift and you really are like I'm I sing every day whether it's for you know whatever part under the um Kelly Clarkson umbrella TV music whatever I feel like I'm always singing I'm always writing I'm always creating I've and I feel like my voice is way better than it was when I was on idol or even 10 years ago like I I just feel like it it it gets healthier and it gets because you you use it and and if you don't use it you lose it right but they said that about a lot of things right so I think that was a lesson like watching him I was like okay I just gotta keep I gotta keep doing this and then in and also I'm very I think a I'm lucky in the sense that I really love a lot of different styles of music like I just you know recorded like a standard you know with Jeff Goldblum like I just you know and I'd done that with Robbie Williams on another project to heat did he also sing no he played so it was with his people yeah and it was beautiful pianist but like it and it's like more Jazz and it was like completely different than what people heard I've done country I've done like I like doing a lot of different styles so I think constantly always pushing yourself there too makes it interesting it breaks up the monotony of making the same record over and over again um you know because people are like oh I love Breakaway or I love stronger I love piece by piece record I'm like cool will you have that so imma make something different like I'm like you you already have that I'm not going to top that for you in that area like in that you know genre I feel like that was what it was for that genre so um I think also like changing it up and like keeping it interesting for me um is what keeps you getting better as well what what's changed about your approach to to music to writing and also singing um that's different I mean you're a mom you've got kids you've obviously been through a few cycles of life and and and obviously through one that is connected to this record but when you when you think about you know who you were earlier in your career and what you wrote or what you sang how you performed and and how you do it now given where you are in life what what what's the thing that sort of sticks out to you is the most different um I think a bit of wisdom in there like I when I was younger like I'd say the first 10 years of my career like I oh so because I grew up singing opera right and like when you went in high school and that was in order to get scholarships because I knew I couldn't afford college so joke's on me I didn't even go but like I but I I worked my tail off doing this stuff to you know Place chair like do all that kind of stuff and um and usually we'd come in and funny enough uh similar to The Voice we would be behind these blinds like these things like so the people couldn't see you they only heard you so you had to be so precise I'm talking Dynamics like notes you could not waver everything would dock you know a point or whatever like so everything counted so I was so used to having to try and be perfect that like I think the first 10 years of my career especially the first few were very hard for me like because I would just kill myself over like the smallest thing going wrong like I would be like oh my God like I did it and you know it's 4 am in the morning and I'm sound checking in the Today Show and no one wants to sing at that time of day you know to rehearse or even you know the night before you're maybe doing you know SNL or something that was like you've literally had three to four hours of sleep like because people are shitty at making schedules but but anyway so you you know you'd be so exhausted and and I would just I was so hard on myself and I think with that um and honestly it came from a person I dislike probably most on this planet but like but it came from a person like 10 years into my career of like being like man like if you if you're gonna look if you're gonna judge yourself like this like each time you're on stage you're gonna be miserable like if you're not doing this and not having fun like enjoy it like it doesn't need to be perfect nobody out there heard what you heard like and and I like I said coming from like the most unlikable human on planet Earth but it was really solid advice in this sense of like it literally changed me like to where I was like okay and I and and then I just started to enjoy myself I started to enjoy like even if I messed up I'd laugh or something or or be like well that didn't work like you know and you can't be perfect all the time and I think that that that really helped me um enjoy it and it doesn't have to be perfect and it can be emotional and it can be whatever it's going to be you know and and if you have to change the key because you haven't had any sleep or TMI but it's your Market monthly and everything's swollen and it changes like and you have to sing things differently like it's okay like um so I think accepting that is just a bit of wisdom you know comes in so um that's probably the thing that I think has been the most healthy lesson and helped me the most I love that that you took this piece of advice from a most unlikable person on Earth literally yeah well just the advice so not necessarily the being so curious who's the most unlikable person on Earth I have some ideas oh man it's yeah never met anyone like them um so I mean as you kind of think about I mean you're you've got these just all these different things that you you you do and you're doing and this show this talk show I mean by by any account it could have been a flop I mean there have been so many right so many examples of so I didn't know these right starting talk shows that just didn't work I know but I think the gift is I didn't know that guy like I didn't like coming into it I was just like all right like I was like and honestly um if I'm being truthful as well there was a deal made that was very smart for me um as a whole like so you know I might have signed on to to do it for multiple reasons um and I was more focused on this reason you know and then it just happened to work out you know like it was I didn't know that people had started them I didn't know how hard it was I I was clueless ignorance was definitely Bliss in that situation like I and honestly I didn't think it was gonna go any like you know they were like at the pilot they were like how did you feel and I was like I mean I felt like I was just talking to people so I feel fine but like I just I don't know that people are gonna watch this but sure let's let's do it like you know it was like I just didn't I didn't necessarily have a ton of faith in it because I didn't I mean it just was so far-fetched from what I ever thought I would be doing like and you know but I I will say it you know I've said this before it it's like a dream I didn't know I had because I'm able to like I said funnel all these creative things through this Outlet while also getting to like talk to people I love I mean you have to be a curious person to do this job like you know I'm saying like when you're naturally curious about how people get where they get or why they chose to do something like I think that's helpful um innately I'm just like that so um I I don't know I you're I'm as I'm more shocked than any human that this worked out so and I'm happy it did because it ended up like I said being like a dream job I didn't know was a dream um but yeah I sometimes you just say yes to things for even ulterior motives and then you just have no idea this blessing that's coming around the corner which is why it's important to say yes to things I feel like sometimes when even though you don't want to like it's something out of your comfort zone so you do 10 shows for this album to support this record and that's it I mean actually you probably can't do much more than that because you you host a talk show you have to be and I'm a single mom and I have my kids like 90 of the time so yeah there's a lot going on there um but we do have some surprises up our sleeves and like doing some other things to not only help promote the album but honestly just we love performing it like the band and I we got to perform I've never done this for the record I did this birth date the Belasco show here in Los Angeles and I performed the record from start to finish like we performed all the songs and um and we've never had the chance to do that before you know why generally you wouldn't do that so it was very important for me to people to visually have something and be as intimate as talking about the songs too before they were um released like or while they were being released that was very important to me like we've been releasing these videos with a little talking before as well that was important to me for this record and it's definitely more of an intimate environment the Vegas thing I had a Vegas show planned before kovid that was completely different but this one's more rock and roll it's more um musicianship it's more lighting it's more um just talking about the music and like why I think sometimes we forget like we're just pumping out singles and oh that's catchy you know that'll you know whatever you know get play it on Tick Tock or whatever like you know so I think we forget like why you write songs like why artists write them why they're so why these records that are so classic are that way um because they mean something and and I think we sometimes forget that in the industry not necessarily the artists more the business behind it I think the machine behind it can but um but luckily like Atlantic like really let me because you know I did all this like two to three years ago and yeah now watching that show I was like man that is how my record was made like you know I'm saying like it needed to come out I needed to talk about these messages there was a reason like and I feel like we just forget that that's really how this all started you know so like music in general and how we connect and why we connect so um it was very important for me to do that show like I said so there you know there may be some surprises that were you know getting to perform this stuff in more places than then we thought yeah I love and I love the Steve Martin story about about just go Kendall going that rabbit hole and saying well what if he just does banjo on this record and then and then but you can do that ever I mean you can do a version of that pretty much every day on your show and so you can do weird stuff you can try all these kind of different experimental things what are I don't know what's like some I don't know this outlandish idea or really interesting idea that you have or that that you want to explore on the show uh you know I really have enjoyed um it's more work definitely for everyone but I really do enjoy when I'm every time we've done that it's been like because I make it a parent I don't want people to feel like they come on here and you have to be a part of a variety show like you know so you don't have to do that so most the time it's them or every time I've been told like it's those people asking like hey really they'd love to like when Cynthia or Eva came on like it maybe wasn't her but it was their you know um Disney like promoting uh it was Disney right with Pinocchio yeah if I mess that up I'm sorry but anyway so it was I'm pretty sure but anyway so whenever they they were like hey would she do when you wish upon a star because she plays Blue Fairy and I was like I love that song I love that we've never done anything like that I'm in love with her voice she's a gift um and such a smart singer as well so um and honestly one of the greatest singers I've ever had in my in-ears it was incredible I was like oh I feel so I need like like I don't need to be here like yeah um but it's it's one of those things where I love those moments like when we create that or um you know Shazam like we had to come on and and uh Zach and we were able to do um a song with him because he loves singing and it's kind of a really cool thing because a lot of these actors also love singing and also are big parts of bands and also have done multiple things so it's kind of a cool way too for our show to stand out and be different um because I love giving people that opportunity one um but also like it's fun for me creatively just to create these moments that maybe you don't get anywhere else um like all these random people I've been able to sing with um that I adore musically but also just really cool to create this content that maybe you don't get anywhere else so musically speaking I love doing that with the show um and we do get people asking to do it it's just sometimes we can't always do it because of the schedule because we shoot to a day or whatever and it is a lot more work um but it's worth it when it really works because it's um like I said just something special that maybe you don't those are those are the special moments that I love um on the show yeah just seeing an actor do something different than you normally see them cool and it probably triggers ideas in your head too absolutely like even like you know when Steve Martin like I was going to I've always wanted to make like even from Idol like on idol I begged them to have a country week but they're a british-owned company and at the time just didn't really get country music like every time I'd bring it up I was like no you don't understand it's like there's a huge population here that loves this genre music and um they just wouldn't allow us to do a country week so um anyway then they ended up getting on board obviously a lot Carrie Underwood and like all these other people that sing country of Scotty McCreery all these people that's in country from that show sorry um but anyway I've always wanted to do a country album and yeah even working with you know talking to Dwayne Johnson about like how he was like oh I love country I always wanted a country I always do that I think Chris Pratt came on he was talking about that too he's like I love country music I love you know all the stuff it's like when you talk to people like that it kind of ignites and and re-inspires you um to remember some of your dreams like that you kind of have put on the back burner you know so you're right it is inspiring as well you grew up listening to Reba McIntyre and then did duet with her I know uh no well I toured with her I've done a lot with Reba but um even like Trisha Yearwood even like I mean I grew up with Lee and Womack I'd love to have a ton of people on the show to like um make because we also have this thing on the show where I've done it with baby face I've done it with Garth I've done it with pink um and I love that too like those artists are so different and that's a big thing for me is like being inclusive and having tons of different you know styles of music and and representations of um the industry so I love that we have this thing where they come on and they tell us a little about the song and like why it was made and like I love that aspect too so because I think that was the thing whenever I signed onto the TV show I was like look I'm willing to do this if y'all are willing to do it in a different way like I was like I I like I wanna I think it'd be fun to sing every episode they started off like how people know me like I think it'd be fun to have artists on and they came up with that idea actually with the Behind the Music kind of thing like I was like that's awesome so um I think that's a little bit I I like talking about people's movies I like talking about why they chose them and and especially ones that I really connect with um uh the projects but it's also cool to see them doing things outside of what people normally see them doing I think that's interesting yeah Kelly Clarkson thank you so much oh yeah I love talking to you so yeah I loved seeing you this time thank you so much for joining us um congrats on the new record and um thank you and good luck with it with the residency I'm sure it's going to be amazing thank you you should come enjoyed this conversation for more like it don't forget to subscribe to the channel and for the audio version just open up your favorite podcast app search for the great creators and tap follow