Josh Shapiro on Trump, Iran War Chaos, Israel's Failure, the Economy, and 2028 Race
Governor Josh Shapiro demonstrates how government efficiency creates economic opportunity through his permitting reform in Pennsylvania. By cutting permit processing from 20 days to same-day for barbers, he put thousands of dollars back in workers' pockets. This "getting to yes" philosophy—moving at
1h 1mKey Takeaway
Governor Josh Shapiro demonstrates how government efficiency creates economic opportunity through his permitting reform in Pennsylvania. By cutting permit processing from 20 days to same-day for barbers, he put thousands of dollars back in workers' pockets. This "getting to yes" philosophy—moving at the speed of business while protecting public health and safety—has made Pennsylvania the only growing economy in the Northeast. The lesson: When government removes bureaucratic friction and focuses on helping people succeed, everyone benefits.
Episode Overview
Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro joins All-In to discuss his track record of pro-growth governance, permitting reform, and tax cuts that have made Pennsylvania a national economic standout. The conversation explores how he achieved bipartisan results in a divided legislature, his approach to fighting fraud and waste, and the broader state of the Democratic Party following the 2024 election. Shapiro emphasizes pragmatic "GSD" (Get Stuff Done) governance focused on creating jobs, improving education, and reducing crime while maintaining fiscal responsibility.
Key Insights
Government efficiency drives economic growth
Shapiro transformed Pennsylvania's permitting process from bottom-five nationally to top-five with a money-back guarantee. This wasn't just bureaucratic reform—it put real money in people's pockets. A barber who previously waited 20 days for a license now gets it same-day, saving thousands in lost income. Scaling this across all permits demonstrates how removing government friction accelerates economic activity.
The "get to yes" philosophy in governance
Shapiro starts from the premise that government should be a force for good and work to get to yes for citizens and businesses. This means processing permits quickly, providing predictability to businesses, and holding bureaucracy accountable through mechanisms like money-back guarantees. The philosophy applies whether helping a mom get autism support for her child or enabling a company to open on schedule.
Government dysfunction breeds cynicism and extremism
When people repeatedly experience oppressive, slow government processes—at airports, DMVs, or business licensing—they grow frustrated and cynical about the system. This cynicism creates opportunities for extreme voices to exploit people's frustration. Conversely, efficient, helpful government services can reduce distrust in institutions and moderate political discourse.
Anti-fraud efforts protect both budgets and trust
Shapiro leads the nation (or near the top) in Medicaid fraud prosecutions, maintaining zero tolerance for waste and abuse. The principle: debate policy differences vigorously, but unite against theft. Whether PPP loan fraud during COVID or ongoing healthcare fraud, aggressive prosecution ensures taxpayer dollars reach their intended purposes, which builds public trust in government programs.
Pro-growth policies require both tax cuts and targeted support
Pennsylvania has cut taxes seven times, maintains one of the lowest income taxes in the country, and created a working Pennsylvanians tax credit (similar to EITC) putting $800 back in nearly one million workers' pockets. The strategy combines broad tax competitiveness with targeted relief for working families, demonstrating that progressive goals can be achieved through market-friendly policies.
Notable Quotes
"I start the conversation believing that government can be a force for good in people's lives. Second, that we got to figure out a way to get to yes, whether it's building a building or whether it's getting that mom the support she needs for her kid with autism who needs support."
"What does that person feel after they try and get their permit, they can't get it, they try and open up their small business, it won't work. They get frustrated by they get pissed. And then not only are they pissed at that agency or that governor or they're pissed at, you know, that state government, they also grow, and this is an important point, a little more cynical about government and a little bit more frustrated about the process."
"The day I took office, it took 20 days for a barber to get their permit to be able to go out and cut hair. Today, you get it same day. That may seem silly to you, but understand I called my barber. I asked him, I said, 'How many heads do you cut a day?' He said, 'About 10 a day at 20 bucks a pop. 200 bucks a day for two for 20 days.' That's real money. That's thousands of dollars that we're putting into that barber's pocket just because we got them their permit more quickly."
"Our mantra, as you said at the top, is GSD, get stuff done. Those are the areas where we focus on getting done. And I think we're putting a lot of points on the board every single day that's having a meaningful difference in people's lives."
"You cannot have a national economy that works if it's only working for the 1%. You have to make sure that there is opportunity for those at all different income levels."
Action Items
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1
Implement money-back guarantees for government services
Create accountability in bureaucracy by guaranteeing timelines for permits and licenses. If government misses the deadline, refund the fee. This holds agencies accountable and signals that government works for citizens, not the other way around. Pennsylvania issued 40 million permits with only 5 refunds, proving the system works.
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2
Calculate the real cost of government delays
Before implementing reforms, quantify what delays cost citizens in real dollars. Shapiro called his barber to calculate the financial impact of a 20-day licensing delay ($4,000 in lost income). This concrete math makes the case for reform undeniable and helps prioritize which processes to streamline first.
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3
Start with 'can we get to yes' instead of 'here's why we can't'
Shift the default government mindset from finding reasons to deny to finding paths to approve. Maintain necessary protections for environment, health, and safety, but make approval the goal rather than an obstacle course. This cultural shift requires both executive leadership and sometimes legislative changes.
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4
Make anti-fraud enforcement visible and aggressive
Don't just identify fraud—prosecute it publicly. Shapiro's office refers cases to prosecutors and tracks results, becoming a national leader in Medicaid fraud prosecutions. This sends a message that theft of public resources has real consequences and helps maintain public trust in government programs.