Jordan Belfort Reveals the Truth About Sales, Money, and Reinventing Yourself!

Key Takeaway

In sales and life, you don't need to be an expert to sound like one—but you must become one quickly. Act with authority from day one by mastering tonality, asking layered questions, and using uncomfortable silences. Your mindset matters more than your experience. Close the knowledge gap fast, but start helping people immediately. The ripple effect of one sale, one conversation, or one connection can change lives—even if you're only 31 days ahead of those you're serving.

Episode Overview

Jordan Belfort discusses the art of persuasion, ethical wealth-building, and personal transformation with Ed Mylett. They explore how to make powerful first impressions, master tonality and body language, ask better questions, and position yourself as an authority—even before you're an expert. Belfort shares how he rebuilt his life after prison by rediscovering his core values and choosing opportunities that create win-win outcomes.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Jordan Belfort Reveals the Truth About Sales, Money, and Reinventing Yourself! from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

There's two ways to live your life, to me. There's the decision to be just average and ordinary and exist. And then there's this other decision and a set of actions that go with it for life, which is what you've done. Even having been knocked down, even got incarcerated, he's chosen I want to live an extraordinary life. Sell me on why I should pursue that life if I'm listening to it today. Everyone has to have their own vision for their future, what they want. I've been a rich man and been extremely happy.

happy. happy. I've been I've been I've been uh uh uh rich man and been very unhappy, very miserable. miserable. miserable. I've been poor and very miserable, as well. But never once in my life since I'm an adult have I been poor and happy. Now, I'm not saying you have to be the richest person in the world, but you it there's a certain amount of money you need to make if you want to live a great life, if you want to really, you know, go after your interests and have free time and have good medical care, a nice place to live, take care of your family, your children, donate to the places and the causes that you believe in, and just have fun.

have fun. have fun. Then, there's going to be a certain amount of money you need to make. That number is up to you. It's different for everybody. And then you better make sure that your desire, you have that vision, your standard, your work ethic is congruent with that. If you know, you have a champagne vision and a beer work ethic, a beer standard, I ain't going to work out so well. So good. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So, I'd say probably 7 or 8 years I've wanted to have this man on the show.

I did his show like a million years ago. years ago. years ago. And I got to tell you guys something. I was I don't know if a surprise is the right word, but pleasantly happy, I guess. I was I liked him so much personally when I met him. Maybe a little bit different than his character in the movie, you You like I really, really enjoyed his company. And I consider him probably the best sales trainer there is going in the world today. Number one. He does a whole bunch of other things, too, but his style and the way he teaches sales is probably what I most align with.

Um but I really enjoyed his company, and I think you're going to enjoy his company today as well because we're going to have a little bit of a different conversation than you probably seen him on other podcasts. So, here's who he is. He's the Wolf of Wall Street. That's how you really know him, but I know him as like a really good man and a great great sales trainer, super talented. Jordan Belfort, welcome to the show. show. show. That's very nice, Ed, and I feel the same about you, obviously.

You were on my podcast my podcast my podcast a zillion years ago, and it was one of my best, uh, you know, performing podcasts. I don't do many. I'm so busy right now. I haven't really done podcasts in a couple years, but you were great, and, uh, uh, so it's great to be back, you know. Yeah, it's great to be with you, brother. So, brother. So, brother. So, you know, I want to You've been on every podcast, so I want to have a little bit of a different conversation with you, and, um, and do stuff that like it's hard for guy at your stature and your level for people when they listen to you to like relate to the story at all, right?

Like it's one of the great stories of all time, but but but one of the theories I have about what holds people back is they get attached to a story about themselves. Something that happened when they were a kid, or their divorce, or a business setback. They get attached to a story, and then and then and then it or who they believe they are, and then it almost just they it reconfirms the story over and over again in their life. And in your case, case, case, that one window of your life is like the story, right?

And it's how everybody knows you. knows you. knows you. Did to some extent, I know it was a great thing cuz you got notoriety from it, but I have to think there's a part of you that's like, all right. I was like I was a kid I was young. Like I'm a different human being now. How did you break out of that? Like how did you change the narrative of this is who you are in your life? And I know you probably don't get asked that a lot or if ever, but I'm curious because I think people listening are attached to the story, and they got to change the narrative.

narrative. narrative. It's a good question. I mean, to start as I would say that um I personally, in my own mind, never had an issue with like breaking out of that. Like I knew I wasn't a bad guy anymore, and I think that's because um um um that wasn't the guy I was when I started. In other words, so I you know, it wasn't like I had to find some new person. It was more about rediscovering the person I was before I veered off course and went hog wild, then um um um and you know, and listen, I I never want to minimize what I did, but the fact is I was on Wall Street, and you know, [ __ ] that goes down on Wall Street.

Like what I did is nothing in compared to what happened during the GFC, the global financial crisis, where like, you know, Goldman bankrupted Iceland and in I mean, the [ __ ] that I'm not I'm not trying to say two rights to you know, two wrongs make a right. I'm not minimizing. But it wasn't like you know, after the GFC, it was like, "Ah, you see? I mean, I was like I've been saying to my guys it it's you know, and I deserve to go to jail. I made mistakes.

I you know, I manipulated stocks. Yeah, I'm not trying to minimize that." So, but in my own mind, it wasn't like I'm like, "I'm a criminal." I was I never got in trouble in my life. I come from a family where no one ever got in trouble. My parents are the most honest my dad, may he rest in peace, was honest. My mom is you know, the oldest woman in New York state to pass the bar. She was a CPA back in the '50s when, you know, women were not in the workplace like that.

She was in the city in a big one of the big you know, you know, you know, eight back then. Now it's like probably the big three or four accounting firms, right? right? right? So, it wasn't like this thing I'm like, "Okay, I have to learn to be a a better person." It's more like, "Wow, you know, I really took a left turn in Albuquerque." And you know, and if you have to examine one thing, it's probably my values. my values. my values. You know? And I think that's really what it what it what really got corrupted in the sense of put putting a value on money above everything else.

Like how much can you make more? That question you ask yourself, how do you make more? Um versus how do I give more value to people because the bottom line is business and making money the right way is simply about knowing how to monetize value. If you have something valuable that helps people, you can get rich and the more people you help the richer you're going to get if you know the rules of business. So like so those and those rules I do know quite well and I learned a lot of them from failing.

I learned them from my failures and I learned them from my successes but more from my failures by the way than my successes. You know that's how you learn and you grow and of course back in my day there was no internet, there were no courses, there weren't really mentors like there are today. So you had to figure it all out on your own. You didn't have entrepreneurship courses. There were some great mentors out there, teachers. Well, you're one of them, right? There are some great people, right?

So I feel for me it wasn't so much about having to discover a new person but to rediscover the old person. Now Now Now changing people's minds about you, that's a different side of the story. So I mean if you talk about self-belief, I didn't have an issue with that. I knew I'd never get in trouble again and I veered away from anything that could even possibly get me in trouble, right? You know, I don't Listen, I could have launched a meme coin 10 times and made 30, 50, 100 million dollars, never did.

Could have launched NFTs, never did. All the things that could I knew I could make quick hits and I always had this idea, well, idea, well, idea, well, you know, if I make a ton of money is someone else losing money as a result of me making money? And if that's what's going to happen, I'm not into it. I've done I've been down that road before and it doesn't feel good. Thankfully, I have enough money right now. I don't need to do that and I would never sacrifice my ethics that way because it doesn't end well and you don't feel good after anyway.

So those are sort of like the the rules that I live by right now and it's cost me a lot of opportunity. I could have made a lot more money than I have but I didn't launch a coin, I didn't do an NFT, I didn't engage in any of that nonsense and I think I'm better off for it at least inside. Maybe my bank account doesn't have as many zeros as it could have but it has enough zeros for me to live the life I want.

You say that, you got enough zeros. I have this theory lately and I'm really curious you and I could speak to this I think at our age too. This is not something you'd hear on like most motivation or self-help or business podcast, but it's something I want to ask you about. So, I if you look at like climbing the ladder of life, right? Like when you're young and you're and you don't have a lot of responsibilities and single, I think every rung for the most part if you do it ethically is worth whatever the trade-off is to climb higher, right?

This is This is I've always wanted to ask you this since we met. we met. we met. And uh And uh And uh but there is a point in my opinion as I've gotten older that these extra rungs and this may not affect everybody listening today, but it will at some point hopefully in your life where you've climbed pretty high and you do have some zeros in your bank account now. Maybe you got a little notoriety. No one ever tells you it's worth evaluating the trade-off for the next rung.

rung. rung. Right? Like there really is. At some point on the climb in my opinion you do need to start to evaluate how's this affecting my health, my mental health, my relationships. No one ever talks about this. about this. about this. And I started climbing you know, I I had a TV show with NBC and and eventually I was like I don't know if this next rung I'm grabbing for is worth the trade-off in the climb. And I've kind of observed that with you. Like you got all this you got hot.

I mean you are hot. Like lot of notoriety, but I also know you like you're kind of like a romantic dude. Like you love your relationships, you love the significant person in your life. Like did you do that at some point? What would your advice be to someone like climb your tail off now, but at some point you got to start looking at this stuff, right? Sure. I mean obviously like you know, listen, you know, if you're still still still acting the same way when you're in your 50s as you are when you were in your 20s.

Are you still asking yourself the same questions? Then you haven't really lived. You haven't grown. You have a real issue, right? And I think for someone who's in their 20s or their 30s, that that is a time when you want to actually literally go out there and you want to focus on staking your claim and making, you know, a ton of money because I think money matters. It is important. Now, then that depends on your how you value money. Everyone has their own number and their own standard of what they want to make.

So, you know, as long as you're congruent with with what your belief systems are about, you know, I want to be super rich, but I don't really want to put in the effort. Well, that's not going to really end that well, right? But for people like us who had a desire to really be successful and and and make a lot and live a great life financially, right? There's a time when you got to, you know, put the hours in. Now, just to be clear, I still put the hours in right now.

Like because I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I didn't if I didn't didn't didn't I don't look at my work as work. Right. Everybody, just so you know, this is a Saturday. He and I are doing this on a Saturday morning. So, most people are cooling it on the weekend. He and I still crushing it. So, keep that in context. context. context. I was coding since 7:00 a.m. this morning. All right? I've been coding since 7:00. I you know, I code I'm an AI company and I've been coding and and debugging.

I did it 17 hours. I mean, like I I'm on a [ __ ] tear. Yeah. To me, like it's not work. I enjoy it. It keeps me stimulated. I would go crazy if I just sat there. And but I still worked out yesterday, you know, my wife is here. In other words, it's balanced. So, so but but here's the point that that I think you're really making, which is a good one. And you know, there there's a difference difference difference when you're saying, you know, I want to climb higher and make more.

You know, the most money I ever made is not when I'm working the hardest necessarily. Mhm. It's like, you know, like if you have a good business and you built it the right way, you know, whether you make make make a million a year, 10 million, or 100 million is really more function of how well the business was structured, what industry you're in, and because and and you know, and the timing, too, by the way. But, the point is you really have to work harder to make a lot more money.

It's really some of it is luck, by the way. of it is some of it is luck, by the way. Some people get lucky. And I when I say I'm lucky, it it's not like, oh, you just No, there's a lot of massive power, but you just were in the right place, right time, and then you had the right idea. You executed right. So, you could work your ass off and make $200,000 a year in one industry, you can work your ass off in another and make 10 or then cash out for 50 or a billion dollars.

So, it's not so much that it's like, I have to work harder to make more. The thing you're talking about is like chasing after every opportunity. Exactly. Yes. You're like you have to like you want to be more significant, you want to and then you find out that all you're doing basically is is executing on ideas and you're not really living a life. That's a very different thing. Correct. Yeah, and I think people should know that. I I I I I'm big on it right now cuz I don't think most successful people will warn you about it.

And I just think like in my case, like there's a point where you got to evaluate what you are trading for the pursuit of significance, money, whatever it is. And by the way, I totally agree with you. I I've been happy poor and happy rich. Happy rich is a zillion times better. Being able to take care of your family. I was thinking about the other day, someone I knew you were coming on and actually my son, who reached out to you to help you with your golf game a little bit.

My son My son My son Oh, so do I, brother. We got to play together. You'll feel much better about your game. But, um I took My son will tell you this. He said, "I really liked him." Like I really liked him. Like I think had it been at a different time in both our lives, he and I would have been very close friends. I just enjoyed his company. Something about our energy that was very similar. And I said to Max, my son, I said, "I liked him like instantly.

Like shook his hand and liked him." And Max says, "Dad, you got to ask him about this because part of the things he's been talking about lately is like in sales is like the first 4 seconds." Will you talk about that for a second so everybody gets that cuz I think most people think I'm not in sales. Yes, you are. are. are. Yeah, right. Well, let me think. Of course, listen, I think you know, sometimes you know, there's someone and it's kind of like you're very similar.

So, it's very easy to get into rapport with someone who's similar to you, right? And also, you know, um one of the things that's a benefit to me or detriment to some people, I guess, is that everyone knows me pretty well, my reputation. So, you could love me or hate me, whatever. If you want to hate me for what I did 38 years ago, go ahead and hate me. You know, the haters driving engagement is more than the lovers anyway. Right. But but either way, um so I you know, for me it's pretty um like I I go in with a lot of sort of, you know, um backstory and a lot of credentials already loaded in.

And you do the same, okay? You do the same, right? But there is this idea and it's very true in terms of this initial impression and it's just, you know, literally and it's it's very simple and it's learnable in terms of how you make eye contact, how you shake hands with somebody, how close do you stand, you know, what's your tonality like. You're like, "Hey, nice to meet Hey, nice to meet you." You know, it is simple stuff that's learnable but it's powerful. And and then what happens though and I think what people don't realize is that you said that to your son, like I liked the guy instantly, but if I would have revealed myself to be an in second number eight or second number 30 or in minute number five, you would have said something, "The have you would have said something, "The guy is an idiot." I hated him the second I laid my eyes on him.

Like you know, all those first few seconds that was advised you the opportunity to then prove that your first impression was correct. So, you have to be very careful. It's not like you make a good first impression and now I'm an [ __ ] True. First impression opens up the ability for you then to get the deeper rapport. Rapport is not a constant, right? But one of these people to be very, very aware of is that, you know, you're one stupid statement away from revealing yourself to be, you know, a novice or an [ __ ] And you have to really when you're especially in a business setting.

Not when you're with your friends, it's very different. You know, you just want to be you. Um although like again, they always say when you meet someone for the first time, a girl or a guy, I send my representative. It's like my best self. Right, everybody right. That's right. You know? You do, but I I also think like today, 30 years ago, a lot of the population weren't good at communication and selling. But like now, it's at an all-time low because of the internet, because kids are in their phones.

I mean, people's interpersonal I was here in the hotel last night and bunch of young people got in the elevator with me. A couple of them knew who I was and I I couldn't get any of them to even look me in the eye or introduce themselves. And that's not a global a that's not a global criticism. But like here's this thing you guys called the straight-line system that I think you all should go get if you want to learn to sell and communicate better. Cuz you get into the real stuff.

And I want to just let's just give everyone a little flavor here. One thing you're great at, like great at when you speak on stage right now today, um one-on-one, is your tonality. Your tonality, you know how to use inflection in your voice. You know how one tone is to command respect and you're an authority figure. And other ones like, "Hey, to ease things up." You know, you do that very well. Speak to that a little bit. Yeah, well I mean I think that that's obviously, you know, one of the things I'm known for is the is teaching tonality.

And and I think there's some people that naturally have really, really great tonality. I I'm one of them for sure, right? You are too. This is There's some but most people don't really have that gift. It It comes much less naturally. But again, the good news is it's an entirely learnable skill. And you know, the way you learn it is by first, you know, the first thing is understanding like, "Okay, well what are they?" You know, what You know, you don't know what you don't know, right?

You're unconsciously incompetent, right? And then the idea is like someone raises like me raises your awareness and become consciously incompetent, like he's like, "Oh my god. So, wait. I know I He sounds so good for a reason." Like when Leo in the movie, right? Leo sounded so amazing on the phone and when he gave the speeches, right? Well, he didn't sound like that before I met him when he would pick up a phone to try to sell stock. I trained him and obviously he's an immensely talented individual.

Wow, okay. Instant but until he was trained, he didn't And of course he's smart enough to know show me how to do this. What is the system? How do you sound the way you sound, right? And you know, I broke it down for him to these core tonalities then I showed him, "Here's where you lower your voice. Here's how you speak with certainty. Here are the gestures." He even made the gestures I made, everything. So, it's a combination of body language, tonality. And the thing is once you become aware wait, these there are tonalities.

Well, the first step that is to say, "Okay, well, in a sale, you know, let me gradually, if I had a script and you start with the script, right? Because that's the only way to learn it. It Where would I speak with certainty? Where would I lower my voice? Where would I with sincerity and empathy? Where would I say, "Like sound fair enough? You're reasonable. I'm reasonable." Right? Where would I say, "You know, you know, that Does that idea make sense? Do you like the idea?" Like hypothetically, there's all the right?

Now, right? Now, right? Now, when you actually have that broken down for you and applied and you actually practice that, right? And you take a couple of days, not very long to learn it, something really odd happens. Very quickly your brain re-wires itself and you no longer need to think about it. Your brain start And the more you practice, even if you're not born with the gift, all right? Even if you're terrible at it, you can get competent at it very quickly. It's not like you have to script out everything you say for the rest of your life.

Once you start getting into the rhythm and your brain starts to understand, it will naturally start applying tonalities at the right points in conversation. And that's the key. So, the first step is understanding what they are. The next step is saying, "Where do you say them then how do I say them then actually technically applying it through practice practice practice and role playing and then you'll be going to be clunky at first of course so you're not going to be no one's perfect at first right?

The old adage no kids walk every kid walks why well the first they fall down but parents they give them encouragement them encouragement them encouragement I don't want to repeat that's an old Tony Robbins story. no it's true though. But it's true as I love to say it's a truism right? But the point is is that like that's how you learn. And I think some of the problems problems like they're scared to look ridiculous well guess what yeah you know if you don't want to look a little bit ridiculous or sound a bit wooden in the beginning well you're never going to get perfect but it doesn't take long to get perfect.

And it's worth it it's worth it. it. it. By the way you're all welcome because this is stuff that you really don't you you watch people that you connect with do these things well and if you're not aware if you're not conscious it's like invisible why you connect with them why they persuade you. Now you're learning from two persuasive people how to do it. Here's the other thing that you do really well really well really well and it's silence. So I've watched you speak on stage we've actually not been backstage together but we've been at many events where you're before me or after me and vice versa.

And when I watch good stand up comics I watch good uh stage speakers I watch great sales people they're they have a different level of the utilization and comfort level with silence in a conversation. Right? And this is like a nuance most people don't realize and it's just I want them inside what you and I would talk about. Talk about the idea of using or being comfortable with silence. Yeah yeah we call it uncomfortable silences and what happens is is people that don't really communicate well they feel the need to jump in and fill the vacuum.

Yep yep yep yes. and obviously there's nothing wrong with silence okay? And but it even like in sales you know especially in persuasion right? You know God gave you two ears and one mouth to listen twice as much as you speak, right? But that But like that's kind of, you know, okay and and it's true, but when you speak, you want to say something that matters. And when you listen, you listen, you listen, you don't want to listen like Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. They'll hate you. It's more Wow, uh-huh.

Oh, yep, uh-huh. This is called active listening. Uh-huh, yep, uh-huh. Nodding your head, leaning back when someone's like scratching scratching scratching Oh, yep, total So it's just sort of like this communication. When you're not speaking, you're communicating all the time. Mhm. What about also asking the second question? I just want to ask you about that. So that. So that. So to me, when I think someone's really listening to me, if they've asked me a question and then I've answered it and then they'll ask like a clarification question or the next layered question.

And then I'm like, oh, they're really connecting with me. Whereas most people are like I'm in sales now. I've learned to ask questions and it's just like this robotic process of even podcasts like this. It's like robotic. Like they didn't even hear what you said. They're onto the next thing on their list, right? Whereas like I'm listening to you and there's a there's a there's a second and a third and maybe even a fourth question down the line. Right. So this is is is It's funny you say that cuz it's like it's like literally like dead on bull's acting.

So like when I teach people like, you know, the art of prospect and gather intelligence, right? You know, one of the rules is you want to, you know, go from big picture questions to smaller picture questions, less invasive questions to more Like the first question you ask someone if you're trying to get someone to like, you know, invest in the stock market. I mean, how much money you have in the bank? I'll think to yourself. It's like, so, you know, how long you've been in the market?

How long you've been in the market for? What do you typically like? You like tech? You like questions anybody would answer. Ask four or five of those. And by the way, what do you have What do you typically put into an idea? You know, ballpark. Oh, yeah, and how much do you have in the market? Oh, two two two Don't tell you, right? So all of these rules, but one of the key rules, and there's two sides to this, is I'm going to take it even a layer deeper, right?

Absolutely, it's about keeping a logical progression, okay? And asking these follow-ups, like unpacking, not ping-ponging. Someone asked you a question, they give you get an answer. If that answer dictates a follow-up, you need to follow up on that question and dig a bit deeper to get to the next layer. And in addition to that, if you want to really impress people, is almost when someone says something and you should be an expert in what you're selling in the field, whatever problem you're trying to solve, you want to clarify what they said in a way that makes it even more powerful, so you mirror back to them.

So, let me understand this. And then if you really have some insight, some industry insight, even explain it more to them. Like, exactly, boom. Then they're like, holy This guy gets it. He knows it. Wow. And you can really impress people. not only following up with more questions, you're also clarifying what they said and even maybe giving insight, not insight. If something If you have the ability to show tidbits of industry knowledge, it keeps building you up in their mind as an expert. He's a real expert versus being a novice or just like, you know, someone in the middle.

So, yeah, keeping this logical flow, making sure that you ask follow-ups. Well, don't ask them if there's no nothing to follow up on, but when they're obviously there, you want to ask them. And you also want to make sure that you are communicating back to them that you understand them and that maybe you even are adding value right from there by clarifying their statements and adding on even other problems. Like, and you so you might also be then running into this, correct? And I Yeah, exactly.

So, So, So, so last sales question. This is so good. I I wasn't going to ask you this one, but since you said it, you said expert, right? What about just the mindset of your approach? Do you think if I'm in sales or anything, I sell cars, I sell uh I own a dry cleaners and you walk in. It doesn't matter. That's still a form of sales, right? sales, right? sales, right? Do you believe that the mindset I should have if I'm a realtor, let's just say.

I assume the the mindset of an authority in that industry. Like, I think this escapes most people. I'm like, I don't know if this person really is any good at Like, if I'm going to have knee surgery, I don't want it to be your third one. Like, I want it I want a great knee surgeon, right? So, do you think as a sales person, one of the key things is to assume the role, the mindset, the posture of an authority? Like, just being an authority in your industry or do you not buy into that?

No, you it's an absolute must and I'll tell you why. And it's one of the things that holds a lot of people back, especially in the beginning, because the key is is that human beings intuitively, we learn we know what experts are supposed to look like and sound like. And we also know what they don't look like and sound like. We know that. And we've been exposed to this since we were very small. When we were very young, if we were sick, our parents took us to a doctor.

We noticed how the doctor dressed a certain way, acted a certain way. Even our own parents deferred to the doctor. He had diplomas on the wall and everyone treated him with respect because he had gone to school for many years and learned everything there was to know about making sick people better. And when you went in to see the doctor, what did he do? He started asking you questions and examining you. And when he asked question, you didn't say, "Well, what do you want to know that, doc?" How about that?

No, you answer his questions honestly and forthrightly. Why? Cuz he's an expert. And then he asked you a series of questions. And then when he was done, he didn't say, "Okay, have a nice day." You're like, "What?" He said, "Okay, well, based on what you said, let me tell you here's what's going on." He tells you what's happening and then gives you a prescription if necessary, a procedure, whatever it might be. He gives you a solution. So, we look at it and we That's how we've been trained our life.

When we were growing up and we wanted to learn a sport, our parents would hire us a coach who was an expert, a tutor. When we got older into business, if you had problems, you would hire a lawyer, an accountant. We seek out experts to help us solve our problems and eliminate pain points. And when we're in the presence of someone, and here's the important thing, that we believe to be an expert, we defer. We allow the expert to control the flow of the encounter. That's what we do.

When we are in the presence of someone we believe is a novice, we will try to control the encounter and cut them off, take them out into Pluto, and all bad things start to happen. Now, the problem is is that when people start in an industry and start in sales, they feel like, "Well, I'm not an expert selling cars yet, so I really can't sound like one until I am one." Okay? Okay? Okay? I put me on a call and I'll sound like a expert like in 7 minutes.

Now, believe me, the night before I'd be up for 12 hours learning everything about cars. And I would And I I'm not saying to lie, I'm saying you want to actually act as if, and you better become an expert and close that gap really quick. But there is absolutely nothing that you need to You don't have to like pretend to be a novice. You can act like one before you're one, and then quickly close that knowledge gap. And conversely, I know a lot of people who are stone-cold experts experts experts and sound like novices, and they can't sell their way out of a paper bag.

So, it's not so much being one, it's sounding like one. But then, of course, you want to become one and not You don't want this to be like just a facade. You need to be an expert. You guys, this is so good. I got to tell you, like So, I'm Why don't you turn on the I just want to remind the audience of this. I'll tell you this, too. My dad was an alcoholic drug addict till I was 15, and then my dad got sober. And like anybody who gets sober, typically there's someone who helps you or becomes your sponsor or whatever it is.

The guy who helped my dad get sober was sober himself 31 days. That's it. So, he was not an expert. But what he was is he cared. What he did is he sounded like an expert, but he wasn't one. So, a lot of you think that you've got to have, you know, you got to be the best in the world at what you do. Yeah, you do eventually, but in the interim, you can still make a lot of sales. You can still help a lot of people.

One of those sales on getting sober was my dad from a dude who was only sober 31 days. And I'm sitting here with all of you guys today, I think in large part because that did happen with my dad. So, just remember the ripple effect of helping one person even in the beginning of your career. Now, here's what is the best part about everything Jordan teaches. Now, we're going to shift gears to AI in a second, but which is ethical selling. And I think just because of the Wolf of Wall Street, like if they didn't encounter you the last trillion years since the movie, right, and seen your work, which there are people here today that haven't.

that haven't. that haven't. We're not talking about manipulation here. We're not talking about um trying to get somebody to do something that's not good for them. I just want you to speak to that cuz when you anytime in the world now where you start teaching people how to persuade or communicate, even like how I was raised, ah, I got it. It's all like slight of hand and trickeration over here. But that's not what we're talking about. a few parts that's so clearly that's not that. And I always say like, you know, get you know, you're not using the you know, the straight line system.

You're not using it because you want to get people to do things they shouldn't do or buy things they shouldn't buy. It's the opposite, right? It's about getting people to overcome these internal and mostly irrational barriers they have to taking action taking action taking action to get things they actually should get and solve problems they need to solve. There are some people, for example, that have what I call a very high action threshold. Their belief systems, their experiences are such the way they're just wired, just wired, just wired, makes it very difficult for them to make a decision.

They will torture themselves that painfully slow when it comes to decisions, and they hate sales people, they don't want to be persuaded, and very often those people go through life lacking a lot of things they need and don't have their problems solved. My dad was one of them. I love May he rest in peace. He was a wonderful dad, but he hated sales people, which is pretty funny, right? And ironic at least. Ironically though, which is that like people like that, you know, well, how do they buy [ __ ] Like if they're that tough, well, they buy things when they're they're they're desperate, and they can when the pain gets so bad, then suddenly that action threshold drops, right?

So like but once they buy from someone, that's their guy. Like my dad, he had his car guy. Like Vinnie was a his car guy. Vinnie had the Sunoco station, the local like no one's touching my dad's Dodge Dart but Vinnie. Like if Enzo Ferrari said, "Max, I'm going to fix your car for free. I'm going to make it Enzo, Enzo, Enzo, don't touch my car, okay? Only Vinnie can That was my dad with everything." Now, I'll tell you a great story though. Um, you know, when I was about 12, and he he he was like that with everything.

He had a car guy, he had a shirt guy, he had one barber, every one guy for everything. And they could be ripping his eyeballs out, overcharging. "Oh, Vinnie's my guy, and that's that, right?" Cuz they don't want That's how it happens, right? New York to Florida, New York to Williamsburg, Colonial Williamsburg, whatever it was. We we were like 3 hours outside of um New York, right? On the way down south, and we're like like not great part of the country, right? Like you know, hillbilly, and my father's car overheats.

It's myself, my mother, my brother. My dad's driving the Dodge Dart, right? And um smoke's coming out of the radiator, and it's like 5:30 p.m. and the sun's like start to set, and and you know what my dad did? He went to the first gas station he could find and said, "Fix my car. I don't care how much it cost." It could have said the name of the gas station could have been Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, and he still would have done it because at that point the worry he was feeling caused his action threshold to drop to zero.

Just fix it. I don't care. Right now in persuasion, we can use that to help people like my father make great decisions that they should be making by, you know, by uncovering what are their pain points? What are they really worried about? What is that deep worry that rests at the base of their skull and keeps him up all night long? And the way you get that, uncover that, is through intelligence gathering by asking questions and digging deeper, as you were speaking about. And once you have that that information, you don't want to say, "Oh, I saw a problem." No, I'm not just saying that.

I want to amplify that. Let them really understand what is costing them, what the problem is, what's holding them back. And And then you want to reserve that. And later on in the conversation, when they're really in that point they want to make a decision, you say, "Listen, let me ask you this." And you reintroduce that pain. Let them understand what's truly at stake. It's very powerful. very powerful. very powerful. Master class, everybody. You're welcome. You're welcome. Uh this is so good. I mean, I'm actually processing this thinking I love when I'm in the middle of doing a podcast.

I'm like, "This is going to download like crazy cuz the content is so good." Okay, I want to interrupt it. You do all this automatically. You are a great communicator, right? So, what happens is all the things I'm saying are part of the straight line system. But So, it's a system. But what happens is great communicators, great closers, they do all this. They do it unconsciously. Yep. Yeah, and some of it, by the way, some of it is actually consciously. And so also when you're uh professional communicator and you hear someone speak truthfully about how to do it correctly, it's a validation.

You're like, "I do that. That's true for me." I see all this online this online this online guru stuff from these sales trainers, and I'm like, "That's just crap. That's not how it works. That's not the real world. And by the way, that's not even ethical what you're teaching. And so, that's why that's why that's why what you're talking about, you know, I resonate with so much. So, many of you have asked how to see me speak live. And for the first time ever, you can come see me speak live in person.

All of my speeches have been private events, but now I'm teaming up with Life Surge speaking all over the country. Life Surge is a one-day faith-based event where you'll walk in hungry for success, and you'll leave ready to build your resources to leave an impact on others. We're talking faith-fueled finance, growing your resources, crushing obstacles, and then, yeah, using it all for something way bigger than yourself. I'm joining Life Surge in a few cities this year, and I'd love to see you there. I'll be sharing the stage with legends such as two-time football champion Tim Tebow, star of Duck Dynasty Willie Robertson, and leadership hero of mine John Maxwell, pastor and author Craig Groeschel, and worship with artists like Natalie Grant.

Tickets are on sale at lifesurge.com. And just for my listeners, you can use the code ED30 for 30% off a ticket. There will be a link in the show notes, so click through and take some time to join us. Cities are being added all the time, so if you don't see one near you now, check back. I hope to see you there. So, a little bit of a name-dropper thing, I want to shift a little bit cuz we're only got Well, I don't have too much time, but you're doing stuff in AI right now, you were telling me off camera where you got some huge success in that lane already as well.

So, it's an ironic Leo thing. I was sitting in a van about 5 months ago, and Leo was sitting next to me. Who played you in the movie, right? And uh and by the way, he's not a uh talkative dude until you get the ball rolling a little bit. Great guy, by the way. He's a great guy. I got to know him that night. He's a terrific guy. terrific guy. terrific guy. Did you tell him that you know me? Cuz we're friends. Did you tell him that?

I did. How do you think I bridged the gap? I I dropped your name. Of course I did. And there's another actor there that's a actually a really good friend of mine, which also helped. But anyway, I asked them both, I said, "What's different in the movie business than, say, 5 10 years ago?" And like, they both their heads almost dropped. Like, "Oh, bro, like streaming's changed everything, number one, the way we shoot the movies, but he said, I said, what's the biggest one? He goes, it's just starting, but it's AI.

And uh and he goes, the way movies are going to be shot, um what budgets we're going to be allowed to do, how scenes are set up, uh it's how writing is going to be done. It's a real tsunami coming to our industry, and I don't know where it's all going to land. And uh and then I started to think about what we do, meaning anything sales-related, anything anyone's doing, you know, like, I certainly wouldn't mind being a plumber right now, cuz I think those dudes are safe.

But, like, what are your overall thoughts or advice to people listening about this thing coming our way called AI when it comes to sales, but also just, you know, entrepreneurship in general? You've obviously decided to get out in front of this cram course. Your If I had met When I met you, if I said you'd be coding the morning that we're doing my podcast someday, you'd be like, what the heck is coding? Like, there's no way. So, take them through kind of what you've done to get in front of it and your thoughts on it.

I I got into artificial intelligence, um maybe it was about 2 years ago, a little bit more, maybe, right? We run people's sales operations and advise them, right? And and they were trying to uh and some company, I forgot the name of it, uh maybe it was Air AI or something. Oh, we have a sales agent that's an AI, and it can go out there and close sales and do lead generation, and and my it was I I didn't even hear about it. Someone else got pitched at the company, then sent it to me.

I said, well, let me hear it, and it sucked. Terrible, right? Then I went and looked at the pricing. The pricing was ridiculous back then, right? But, it was not good. The latency was terrible. You could fool it in 2 seconds. It would say stupid right? But, that was the first like shot across the bow. Maybe it was almost 2 and 1/2 years ago, maybe even three. Wow. So, it was early, right? It was before it was when ChatGPT it was like 3.0 maybe. It was like a really long time.

I'm always very nice to AI cuz when they rule us, it's not going to kill me. You know, I'm like, "Oh, I love my AI." Right. Right. A friend of mine, good friend of mine, a top VC, Shervin Pishevar, and I are good friends. We were out for dinner. I told him this and I said, "You know, if we could build an AI, imagine me, imagine if I could have a digital twin Jordan that knew everything and we could teach this thing to sell like me, that would be freaking amazing." And so we began this venture, okay?

And we first funded ourselves, funded ourselves, funded ourselves, um, and I spent about a year just wasting money because I had to learn about technology, all right? And engineers and good ones and bad ones. But I went on a massive crash course. I'm really tech You I am so technical you wouldn't even believe it how technical I am about artificial intelligence, coding, and architecture. And so I had to because I I'm a believer in any business you're in, if you don't know that business, you don't know the industry, you are going to get slammed.

Your people will lie to you. They'll think it They'll think they don't mean to, but they're just going to You don't You don't You can't tell fact from fiction, blah blah blah, right? Um, and then I got lucky in the sense that the tailwinds, and I knew this was really Look, I knew that the AI would improve, the models would improve. That was obvious to me. So I didn't So I always built it from the sense that I'm not worried I'm not building this application for what AI can do today.

I'm going to catch this when it's ready in a year and a half from now. So I didn't go into this trying to build a a a sales agent that can get on a telephone call and qualify a lead. That I didn't do that. I I I I have that and we do that. We have a company that does that. That's child's play, it's nothing, right? Okay, you do in 2 seconds, right? I said, "I want to build an AI that can freaking close a complex sale, carry on a conversation over 2 months if it has to, with callbacks, texting, email, persistent memory, a an omni channel agent that can actually handle a a a complex insurance, financial services, mortgages, and literally close life me.

When it's still people don't think it's still We do it, okay? And it's still not quite ready, just to be clear. It's like another 2 months away from full enterprise ready. So, we're still in stealth mode, right? Because it's very difficult to do that what like what I'm saying. It's not like It is not Whatever you think about AI, these things are Einstein and Forrest Gump at the same time. That's what they are, okay? And you can't the where people most mostly fall down with this stuff is the model is only one part of it, okay?

You need a very complex architecture around the model with persistent memory, state management, routers that keep the model honest. There's all these different app There's a very complex application, and once you have that architecture, then you can start handling conversation that can run 30 minutes, an hour. You can have a conversation that goes 8 minutes. And you know, can you call me back at 3:00 this afternoon? I got Sure, no problem. And it remembers where you are, picks up where it left off, and sends you a text in the middle, calls you back in a week, collects dot So, that's what I've been building with my team, but the plan is well, you know, we're we we we're we're already post revenue, but we're going to really launching now over the next 30 days, big scaling.

And then we're going to do a series A at the end of probably hopefully May or June. My partner is a massive player in the VC space. He may be be be Uber, Airbnb, Uber, Airbnb, Uber, Airbnb, um you know, Robinhood, big players. So, we'll pause we'll pause we'll pause right have a great team, a great team of about 15 engineers full-time. By the way, remember whose son helped you with your golf clubs, just what I'm saying. I want to know uh that sounds good for you and sounds good for the world.

Doesn't sound so good if I were in real estate or insurance, though, right? What are your What's your overall like 30,000-ft view 30,000-ft view 30,000-ft view Cuz look, let's be be like we also make money from people that are in the sales industry as well, but what would you say to somebody who's sitting there going, "Uh-oh. "Uh-oh. "Uh-oh. Uh-oh. You know, what do I do now? I'm in I'm in my car right now driving to my sales appointment, and I Am I going to be replaced by a robot?" Yeah, yeah.

So, what here's what I would say. Um Um Um I give Google so much credit and so much respect. respect. respect. Cuz that's the classic the innovator's dilemma, right? In other words, they owns the search market, and if you're going to have AI suddenly making general search with ads obsolete or semi-obsolete or not, you know, the first thing you want to do, which is true, right? Google would say, "Well, I'm I'm not going to put AI into my search." But they did. And they put If you notice, they they did a very smart thing.

That's brilliant. That's a That's what companies up with. They say, "I'm holding on. I have to protect what I have. I'm not going to innovate and move forward. I can't make myself obsolete." And then someone else makes them obsolete. obsolete. Okay? Now, I will say this. That right there, not interrupt you. That right there, all you entrepreneurs, that's a huge lesson. What he just said right there. Don't protect territory trying to remain, you know, protect yourself from being obsolete because that's how you become it. Ask Blockbuster Video when they had a chance to just scoop up Netflix for nine bucks.

So, just just stay in there. Okay. Frame it differently. If you don't disrupt yourself, someone else will disrupt you. Wow. Wow. Wow. Say it like that, right? And so, yet yet, yet yet, yet yet, their search revenue is still booming. Yeah, yeah. I know. But But But okay, there's always going to be a need for sales people, always. Always. Now, do I think things like lead gen is going to get commoditized? Yes, but there is certainly are going to be AIs out there selling. selling. selling.

Um it's very very difficult to do. It is I am telling you it is ex- to get an AI to really have a sales conversation, they're not designed for that. It and I'll tell you why. Because to be a great salesperson, you need to be in control of the conversation. And the way you way you way you get into control is by being perceived as an expert, by being perceived as an expert on the ball, sharp, enthusiastic, people will defer, allow you to control the flow of a conversation, which allows you then to ask questions in a certain way, present in a certain way, allows you to take what would otherwise be a chaotic chaotic chaotic conversation that could go in a million directions and move it down the straight line.

That's the straight line system, right? AI is designed the opposite. You ask it a question, it gives you an answer, which is reactive. Yeah, good point. And to be a great salesperson, you got to be proactive. So, it's very very difficult to get artificial intelligence to sell well. Really, it requires a massive amount of architecture, prompting, prompt engineering, context engineering, right? And And And but the point is like we are at this thing called the singularity. Like where you can't look past the horizon of that horizon and say, "I don't know what the [ __ ] is going to happen in 5 years from now." But what I do know is this.

Oh, with I would I nothing is certain, but with great certainty is that a lot of the jobs that we have right now, yeah, they're going to be replaced, but there'll be more jobs created. And I think that there's going to be a shift. I think it's it's so much easier right now to be an entrepreneur. It is so much easier now to start businesses, to do whatever you want to do cheaply, effectively, efficiently. And you know, AI can be a great mentor, but the problem is they won't tell you everything is good, which is really problematic.

In other words, when you if you don't you don't you don't collaborating with an AI is an art. I collaborate with collaborate with collaborate with I have like multiple AIs and I am on these high very high level plans. I'm on all these all these pro level plans and I have APIs into them for unlimited usage, right? With with the highest level of intelligence. But if you don't if you're not an expert yourself, it's going to tell you everything is good, every idea is perfect, blah blah blah blah.

It doesn't work out that way. But what it can do is if you know what you're doing or at least have if you're careful and you work with it and you learn that the art of essentially how do you prompt an AI, how do you actually keep it going in the direction, right? How do you let it play devil's advocate or even have two? One is one you say, "Listen, someone gave me this idea. It's the stupidest idea. Just tell me why this is not going to Why is this the stupidest dumbest idea I've ever heard?" Right.

And one idea is creating the idea if you're helping you, then one's saying how bad it is and then you got to start to see the truth. Cuz you only have them telling you how good it is, they'll just tell you they'll find statistics and if they don't exist, they'll make them up, okay? But the point I'm making is this, to get back to your your question, is that will some sales people be replaced? Yeah, for sure. And there'll be new sales jobs created that are probably even higher paying and other things like that.

So, but you know, you can't live your life worrying about what's going to happen. You have to sit there and be on the edge of, you know, what's happening and disruption's going to happen. All right. Um speaking of living your life, life, life, this has been really tremendous. This will be my last question for you. But to speak this on living life in general, this is more like a broad question, but I want to step back cuz I want people just to hear from you. There's two ways to live your life to me.

There's the decision to be just average and ordinary and exist, which is what a lot of people settle into doing in their life. And then there's this other decision and a set of actions that go with it for life, which is what you've done. I mean, those of you that are on audio, you can't see this, but the view behind this man is like beautiful. He's chosen even having been knocked down, even got incarcerated, he's chosen, I want to live an extraordinary life. I want to live greatly.

I want to touch my potential. You know, I want to have a great life rich in memories and friendships and all that. that. that. I'm just curious like if you'd speak to that, you know, what why choose should everybody choose to go as corny as it sounds, man, like we're two dudes now halfway through our life probably, right? That have chosen to pursue our dreams in our life. And what's come with that is a lot of ups and downs, a lot of critics, a lot of crap, a lot of stress, the amount of which most people will never understand, the amount of work, the amount of huge lows lows lows and tremendous highs.

Sell me on why I should pursue that life if I'm listening to it today. Here's what I would say. Everyone Everyone Everyone has to have their own vision for their future, what they want. You know, I'm going to one extreme, Mother Teresa, right? Yeah. Well, what was her, you know, what was her currency of value was helping people. She didn't care about money. It didn't matter to her. Money did not truly didn't It was not her value. Her value was how many people could I touch and help and soothe and heal, right?

She's rich as any as as as as as Elon Musk in her own world. Right now, you have other people, you know, like you and I. I mean, like listen, I I'll tell you this very simple. I've been a rich man and been extremely happy. I've been I've been I've been uh uh uh rich man and been very unhappy, very miserable. miserable. miserable. I've been poor and very miserable as well. But never once in my life since I'm an adult have I been poor and happy.

It is It is a real issue. Now, I'm not saying you have to be the richest person in the world, but you there's a certain amount of money you need to make if you want to live a great life, if you want to really, you know, enjoy the the finer things and really be able to go after your interests and have free time and have good medical care, a nice place to live, you have to take care of your family, your children, donate to the places and the causes that you believe in and just have fun.

fun. fun. Then there's going to be a certain amount of money you need to make. That number is up to you. It's different for everybody. What I would say is this, you got to get first very clear on what your vision for the future is. Where do you want to be? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? What life do you want? And then you better make sure that your desire, you have that vision, your standard, your work ethic is congruent with that. If you know, you have champagne vision and a beer work ethic, a beer standard, that ain't going to work out so well.

All right, bottom line. So good. This has been such I'm really glad we did it. This has been like a really great conversation. Thank you, by the way, for doing this today on a Saturday. You guys Yeah, but well I want to see in person again. Um again. Um again. Um and take your money on the golf course. You guys go get Straight Line Sales Course, which is his course. He's also got a book called The Wolf of Investing, which could help you with the latter part that he just talked about.

And share this episode, you guys. I bet you this is a side of Jordan that all of you have heard or seen before and that's what I wanted to accomplish today. It's the side that I've seen and the one that I like. So, Jordan, thanks, brother. It was great. God bless you. Max out.