Joe Rogan Experience #725 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Key Takeaway

Practice “disciplined curiosity” today: choose one belief you hold because an authority, headline, or consensus told you so, then spend 20 minutes reading the strongest evidence on both sides. Hancock and Carlson repeatedly argue that new evidence should update models rather than be dismissed to protect old ones. You do not need to accept their conclusions to adopt the useful habit: separate evidence, interpretation, uncertainty, and personal identity when evaluating a claim.

Episode Overview

Joe Rogan speaks with Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson about their interpretation of evidence for catastrophic flooding, climate shifts, extinctions, and possible comet impacts around the Younger Dryas period. They connect these claims to disputed interpretations of ancient sites, astronomical knowledge, institutional resistance to revision, cosmic-risk preparedness, and the value of reconnecting with nature and the night sky.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Joe Rogan Experience #725 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson from Joe Rogan Experience. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

I have been looking forward to this podcast for a long time gentlemen this is uh about as cool podcast for me as a fan this is like one of my favorite ones because Randall Carlson and Graham ha Hancock together and your new book magicians of the Gods is it out officially everywhere now it's uh published on the 10th of November fantastic all over the us all over the US and uh Randall you guys together is so exciting to me because uh I know you guys spent a lot of time together and you were working together on just this current project we did a fantastic research trip across the channel scablands of Washington state which Randall has been walking the walk on for decades and he just showed me the absolute irrefutable evidence of cataclysmic flooding in that in that area and it plays a very important part in the book uh North America was the epicenter of a global cataclysm between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago and when you see it through Randall's eyes you get it immediately this this whole subject and you know since you've been on my podcast and you've been on the podcast is something that comes up I mean I'm not kidding four or five times a week someone will grab me and ask me when is Graham coming back on again when's Randall coming back and when I tell people that you guys are coming on together the people start freaking out so you know we've been saying before this that people are taking time off work they're they're having little viewing parties so to you people out there we're just as excited as you are so um tell me what's been going on so tell me the Washington State thing tell me what you guys saw and and what picture evidence and and what was revealed I'm going to pass that one to Randall first off um well we uh were basically traveling what we did was we traveled from Portland to the Twin Cities and what we did was essentially followed the southern margin of the great ice sheet for the most part and what we were looking at was this evidence that the whole ice sheet had undergone this massive catastrophic sudden meltdown and basically what we could what we saw in the landscape was evidence that was Oceanic level currents flowing off the ice sheets in fact the the um the geologists that have been looking at this use a term called sperr which was originally uh contrived to um and it's it's a uh a million cub met per second and they originally came up with it to talk about ocean currents like the Gulf Stream and so on um not realizing that down the road it was actually going to be applied to currents that were flowing over the land um but that's what we were looking at was spell that word s it's it's named after the uh the scientists that first uh came up with the the concept It's s v r d r u p sper drop it's 100 Mill million I'm I'm sorry a million cubic feet cubic meters per second um whoa which is very difficult to even Envision but when you see it on the landscape I mean for example there's a place called The Kamas Prairie that rall took me to where you see these kind of ripples in the ground and they look a little bit like current ripples on the beach you know but actually they are current ripples but they're 50 ft high and hundreds and hundreds of feet long and there that receding flood left those ripples on on that on that landscape then above the town of wachi there's a gigantic Boulder which didn't come from wachi it weighs 18,000 tons and it got there in an iceberg the size of an oil tanker which grounded against that side of the valley the flood waters receded the iceberg melted away and it left this humongous Boulder there and actually there's thousands of them thousands of these gigantic Boulders just scattered across the landscape of the Pacific Northwest Northwest and it all speaks of this cataclysmic horrendous this humongous flood that happened 12,800 years ago 18,000 tons these you you just threw out some giant numbers that the the meters per second and the 18,000 18,000 tons is a ton is 2,000 so 18,000 tons is 18,000 2000s so it's 36 million yeah if you want I can pull up some en that is yeah something of that order let's just say really [ __ ] big I mean an enormous an enormous thing and the fact is if there was just one it would be spectacular but there's thousands of them and and they're all just washed away by this so when the when the ice caps suddenly melted down and we know now that that happened because of the impact of several fragments of of a giant Comet back 12,800 years ago it released a huge flood of meltwater and that meltwater carried it was jostling with icebergs huge icebergs and many of these icebergs had had rocks in chained within them as Glacier glacial ice moves it snatches up and enchains rock and keeps it inside there's a name for them they're called glacial erratics and so they're in these icebergs and the icebergs are JL against each other and the flood has ripped up whole Forest by its roots and there's mud and there's rubble and it's rumbling and it's and you see it all on the landscape up there and this is all carbon dated to this time period the dating is very secure very wow oh my God if we look here at the image what I'm should now this is not from the catastrophic flood we're talking about here obviously but interestingly enough this was a hundred-year flood that happened in Georgia back in 2004 and what we had was a a flood plane that got uh over topped for the first time in decades and it left these current ripples here and I just I I use this slide to show what we're used to on the scale that of phenomena that we would normally see this kind of phenomena so this is a normal very large major storm that you know makes sense this was Hurricane Ivan when it came through in 2004 it it was they referred to it as a 100-year flood right so so this is a massive storm but it's nothing out of the ordinary really it's just it's rare but huge it's rare what you'll see here is you know I've got a measuring tape here you're going to see the wavelength is about 3 in the amplitude the vertical height of these things is about 3/4 of an inch and so these are all what we're looking at is all dried dirt that has sand it's been rippled it's been carried along in swept along in this water that was over this flood plane which was 2 ft deep mhm carried along and as the water declined it it it deposited this sand and then rippled it as the final stages and we're looking at this what year how long after the the storm was this this was a week or two after the storm because within a month this was all all obscured by wind and and everything so now just so you've got this by comparison we'll go to this this is what grahe was just talking about cus Prairie and and what you see here is there's ranches out there and you've got this 10mile long field of these gigantic Ripples and if you look up in the upper left hand corner of the screen you can see some of these ripples they're like Graham said they're they're 100 to 300 feet in wavelength and they're up to 50 ft in amplitude and the water that flowed through here that that deposited this was over 1,000 ft deep so this is fractal you get it in the small scale in the in the first image rle showed the same phenomenon there with a flood just 2 feet deep and then we come to this humongous testimony to what happened 12,800 years ago and it's easy to drive through it and not really figure what you're driving through but once you once you look at it and and realize what happened it it really dilates the imagination so this must have been just an absolutely enormous event when it happened and and really unimaginable unimaginable and human beings lived through that and it changed everything these they're called extinction level events these Global cataclysms wipe the Slate clean they they change everything and they and they set a new order in motion a new order follows that so the classic example is the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago that turned dinosaurs into chickens you know and they were gone and it opened the way for mammals and and our distant ancestor is a sort of 65 million year old shrew which was going nowhere until the dinosaurs were wiped by a cosmic impact and then they began to evolve and and here we are so dinosaurs became chickens and shrews became human being almost harder for me to imagine than this this is very hard to be for me to wrap my head around but that we came from a shrew 65 million years ago harder that's the that's the story of of evolution one can buy into it or not but that's certainly mammals were going nowhere before the dinosaurs were swept out of the way and the the point I'm making is that these events which are called extinction level events they they reset the clock they they they make everything start again and and this is why what happened in North America 12,800 years ago is so important because that period the whole period was 12,800 to 11,600 years ago that period stands right in the foundations of what we think of as the beginnings the origins of civilization and yet mainstream archaeology and historians have not taken it into account and I don't blame them for that this is new information this is new science that's been mainly published in the professional Journal since 2007 it's very intriguing new information but we cannot any longer trust the established model of the origins of civilization since it does not take into account an extinction level event right in the foundations and that's why I say the house of History appears to be built on foundations of sand now this hasn't been adopted yet but is it resisted is has mainstream yes it is it's being resisted whenever you when ever you propose a cataclysm of any kind it's a curious thing I don't know whether it's psychological or something more Sinister than that but whenever whenever you propose that and present evidence for it you can be sure that you will be descended upon by a furious crowd of critics and the group of scientists more than 30 of them very significant mainstream scientists who've been presenting the evidence for the comet impact have had a fight on their hands since 2007 but I can say with confidence and I I detail it at length in the the book that they have won that fight every criticism that's been made of their work they have refuted and they've come back with new evidence sometimes three or four papers a year and it's a compelling case and we can't ignore it anymore well it seems to me as a casual Observer I mean more casual mean probably more uh into it than the average person but no not even close to you guys that as this evidence piles up like the the uh nuclear glass that they keep finding at the it's about 12,000 that's one of what they call the impact proxies we got to consider is that we are looking at objects which might be a mile wide that are coming into the atmosphere at 70,000 M an hour and they are hot you know some people will remember Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 that hit Jupiter back in 1994 that was a small Comet just 2 kilometers wide broke into about 20 fragments the explosive power of those impacts on Jupiter was 300 gigatons now let me put that into perspective the entire world's nuclear AR Al were it to go off at once would be 6.4 gatons so you're looking at something Beyond imagination the the the power of these impacts is absolutely colossal numbers numbers don't do it just imagine a world on fire a world changed forever the explosion that hit Jupiter was about the size of the Earth too right no no no no this was a comet I mean impct the size of the Earth AB absolutely so we're we're looking at at something that when when it happened what's the timeline around would the calculations around somewhere around 11,000 years ago well there's actually a period this is this is an episode rather than a single incident and that's part of the mystery first off there are the impacts 12,800 years ago that causes this cataclysm centered on North America but Global and Global temperature plummets it I mean people who talk about global warming or today what what happen the change in temperature 12 800 years ago was just stunning and this is undeniable detailed this in depth the last time he was here with mainstream scientific data that's irrefutable absolutely core samples ice core samples those lines and they call the Geist call it the younger dry ass and it's a 1,200 year period temperatures Plunge at the beginning massive animal extinctions and then 1,2 years later equally suddenly temperatures shoot up again dramatically and there's another series of floods so the the period is 12,800 to 11,600 years ago and I think I don't know if Randle agrees we're we're sure that the comet was the cause of the first event 12,800 years ago I think other bits of the Comet were responsible for the second event as well I think there was an impact in Ocean which threw water vapor up into the upper atmosphere caused a greenhouse effect and created that sudden spike in warming and that huge flood those two warming spikes show up very dramatically in the Greenland ice course and I pulled these up I think in the last meeting but it it would be good to reference it again and um basically what you see here is warming Spike number one is here and warming Spike number two is here and these were extreme you know we're talking about 10 10° Centigrade roughly in perhaps a year or two and this translates into about 17 or 18 degrees Fahrenheit so we're talking many times greater than the the warming of the last century or two um instantly basically just like that and this this is this this what we see here brackets this this whole EP episode of this this period of transition from the glacial age to this nice warm hallene interglacial age that we're in now and you know Graham brought up about how this sits right at the very Foundation of our modern history and if you look at whether it's the dispersion of languages the beginning of Agriculture the first cities the domestication of animals what you see over and over again is the same date showing up you know 8 n 10,000 years ago and in this model that that we're describing here we're not really seeing the Genesis of civilization we're seeing the the rebooting of civilization in the aftermath of these events the only thing that makes sense this is this is this is we have now the data that makes sense of what previously has been very mysterious and unexplained evidence so for folks who are not aware of both of your work to me this is so fascinating because I've been a fan of your your book since God I don't more than a decade right when did it come out in the '90s well Fingerprints of the Gods was published in 1995 which is which is 20 years ago and magicians of the Gods the new book is the sequel to fingerprints and I've written it because there's just this mass of new information that changes the the whole picture completely Fingerprints of the Gods I started reading sometime in the late 9s and just became engrossed in it and fascinated by this concept That civilization and as as you put it that we are a species that has Amnesia and that we just forgot what our past was but the the two of you together is what's so fascinating because it puts this puzzle together your obsession with asteroidal impacts and these massive Extinction events and your knowledge of this ancient architecture that doesn't make any sense and these ancient construction methods that seemed to differ and the the timelines and for people aren't aware of the whole story behind it the uh erosion on the enclosure of the Sphinx where where they made the Sphinx has thousands of years of rainfall erosion that doesn't make any sense because the last time there was rain the Nile Valley was like 9,000 BC which is right somewhere around there L really we've the the climate of of of Egypt has been as dry as it is today for about the last 5,000 years so you have to go back you actually have to go back to this period to this younger Drass period to get those heavy rainfalls that could have eroded the Sphinx in the way it is and I want to pay tribute to the work of John Anthony West and Robert shock from Boston University because they broke this story way back in 1992 and at the time the egyptological establishment of course were Furious that anybody dared to suggest that the Sphinx might be 12,000 years old the egyptologist said we know the Sphinx dates from 2,500 BC actually one of the things I've done in this book is look at what the egyptological case rests on and it's a fairy tale it rests on nothing it's kind of ideology it's a it's it's it's their idea of how things should be rather than any real factual evidence that puts the Sphinx at 2,500 BC and the geology puts the Sphinx much much older now the argument of the archaeologists at the time was and anyway the Sphinx couldn't possibly be 12,000 years old because if that was the work of some unknown culture 12,000 years ago we're going to find lots of other monuments around the world that are 12,000 years old and we don't find any um well that was 1992 but now we're in 2015 and the site of gockley tee in turkey has been discovered with its gigantic megaliths a deliberately buried Time Capsule buried more than 10,000 years ago and created 11 a half thousand years ago and if you can make gole tee you can make the Sphinx we are finding the Fingerprints of this Lost Civilization popping up all around the world indeed on any archaeological side where you can be absolutely sure of the dating the dating proves to be much older than we have been taught by archaeologists they recently discovered a huge megalithic site 40 meters underwater between in the Sicily channel it's been underwater for best part of 10,000 years which means that megalithic site is at least that old and may be much older and we can be sure about the dating because it's underwater likewise we can be sure of the dating of gockley tee because whoever made it deliberately buried it sealed it and no later organic material got in to contaminate the carbon dating record and give falsely young and if they didn't bury it someone else during that time period buried it like somebody buried it they went some we don't know when it was built but we know it's buried at least 10,000 plus years the dates that are coming out of it now the the earliest dates now it's important to be clear that there's much more of gockley Tey under the ground um there's there's actually about 50 times as much as has already been excavated which is under the ground still and not been dug up yet they know it's there because they've been over the whole site with ground penetrating radar and what they're seeing is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these huge 20 to 50 ton t-shaped megalithic pillars buried under the ground somebody just as Somebody went to enormous lengths to create this site they also or somebody else went to enormous lengths to bury it and actually goeke means potbellied Hill in the Turkish language and that whole potbellied hill that covers this site was artificially put there by human beings teams of men and women with buckets filled with rubble and Stones filling it in and covering it up so strange and there's no no no guesses or theories as to why they did this really not there's there there's not it's just a fact that it happened because because archaeologists and geologists can tell from the nature of the material that covers these pillars that it isn't a natural sedimentation that they were deliberately covered up well it's got to be satisfying to you guys two obsessed crazy men come together and your theories lock in like puzzle pieces and haha and well you you you've got the right word there because this obsess crazy man I'm glad you're obsessed crazy I say that with all and respect I put my hat up to that AB absolutely you got to be a bit obsessed to stick with something like this I you know I came in for an enormous amount of of criticism and Flack when I published Fingerprints of the Gods and I'm human it hurts when people say really bad things about me but what I've learned is you just have to persist you just have to keep going even if your ideas are shouted down by you know the established holders of knowledge in our society if you feel strongly enough about those ideas you got to hang with them and I've I've hung with these ideas for more than 20 years now and what we're seeing is just a mass of new evidence that that b basically vindicates the notion of of of A Lost Civilization see if I may say gockley tee um the earliest dates they've pulled out of the ground now which they think is the foundation of the site is 11,600 years ago and that is really significant because 11,600 years ago was the second episode of cataclysm at the end of the younger dras and we know it was accompanied by Massive Global flooding is it possible that this was covered up then that it wasn't covered up intent by people that it was covered up as a part of that cataclysm no it was made after the cataclysm was over and archaeologists have a problem with this because the site is very sophisticated it contains the world's first perfectly north south aligned structure and you can't do that without precise astronomy in fact there are huge astronomical implications to the gocke site the the architecture is is massive and you see the problem archaeology has is that up till now they've been teaching us that megalithic sites like like this astronomically a megalithic sites like this are maximum of 5 to 5 a half thousand years old and suddenly we're looking at a site Which is far bigger than any other megalithic site known in the world which is at least 6,000 years older than any other known site so how do they explain this our ancestors are supposed to have been just hunter gatherers at that time Nomads following the game not with a sophisticated societal organization that would have Specialists who had these knowledge who had the skills who could put this put this work together so the fairy tale archaeologists are now telling about gockley teepe is that one morning a group of hunter gatherers woke up somehow divinely inspired with with the complete knowledge of megalithic architecture and how to organize a Workforce and how to bring them to a site which by the way there's no water on that site and to put this whole this whole proposition together and at the same time exactly at the same moment 11,600 years ago we suddenly get evidence of Agriculture spreading all over turkey it's like gobec lppi is a center of innovation and associated with it is the birth of agriculture in in Turkey uh and and to me this looks like a transfer of Technology it does not look to me like a group of hunter gatherers woke up one morning magically equipped with the ability to invent Agriculture and create a megalithic site like this it looks to me like people who already had that knowledge came into that area settled there and tried to pass on their knowledge to the local people and maybe used GOC tee as a kind of University or initiation Center to train and teach people in those skills that's what it feels like and another point is that that same date 11,600 years ago is the date that Plato gives us for the destruction and submergence by flood of the Lost Civilization of Atlantis and up till now archaeologists have dismissed the whole Atlantis story and they regard it as kind of pseudo science although it comes from Plato but Plato said very clearly that this happened 9,000 years before the time of Solon and Solon lived in 600 BC so Plato has tell telling us Atlantis went down 9,600 BC 11,600 years ago exactly the date of the second Spike of the younger dras cataclysm if you look here at this graph we see brand I'll pull this sucker up close to you so that you get a little bit more it's a we can see here these are um studies of sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age and rather than it being a smooth curve which was the old model which you can see represented by the dashed line it's two enormous spikes and that second Spike melt what there you see mwp -1b that's meltwater pulse 1B and you've got meltwater pulse 1 a meltwater pulse 1B is dated precisely to 11,600 years ago this is crazy it's like everything aligns everything aligns the that the the nuclear glass that they're finding in the the core samples well all the same around the same time this was the point I want I wanted to to make when we talk about these objects coming in at 70,000 mil an hour they are packing an enormous amount of kinetic energy and heat and when they hit the ground uh there are distinct products left in the soil and and those include Nano diamonds you canot they're created by the shock and the impact you can only see them you know they're under a microscope they're tiny tiny tiny things and carbon spherules and the melt glass which is just basically identical to trinitite which is the melt glass that you get from nuclear explosions they're called impact proxies and there's a distinct layer of the soil all all around the world dated to 12,800 years ago which contains this stuff and also contains the evidence of Continental wildfires burning and I think Randall might want to address that issue of Continental wildfires and why they happened the all these images are beautiful but it's um note that most people are just listening to this so if you're just listening to this those images that Randall put up on the the screen show these enormous straight up and down spikes of the water level rising which has to be caused by some ocean level rising which has to be ca caused by something extremely dramatic like that just looking at that like wow what happened there that's nuts that's the melting of the ice sheets the sudden rapid catastrophic meltdown of the ice sheets dumping millions of cubic kilometers of water back into the ocean basins and how those little dashes on the bottom the the numbers how many years do they represent like that Spike that goes straight up and down the largest Spike how how much time does that represent well you've got two two here that basically represent the the margin of error in the dating the earliest version of it is the the spike you see on the right the latest version as you see is on the on the left and it varies between about 14 and and 13,000 years for the first Spike the second spike is dating now to about like I said about 11,600 the the numbers across the bottom are KYR means thousands of years before present so you can see 9 10 that would be 10,000 years ago so essentially seems like our Earth went through like a thousand years of horror thousand years of Hell uh it it it it's it's really impossible to imagine what the what the world was like then for the people who lived in it and I think it makes sense of why all around the world we have a story of a global flood this is this is not something confined to the story of Noah in the Bible this is a universal story of a cataclysm that changed the world and wiped away a former golden age and left us with the present order of things all around the world and secondly all around the world and this is intriguing there is a universal fear of comets now why should we be afraid of comets we see comets up in the sky they whiz through they have this nice tail they look they look pretty why should we be scared of them but every culture in the world has myths and traditions that associate comets With Disaster uh and and I think it's pretty obvious why because this this comet impact 12,800 years ago was remembered by the survivors and they passed that memory down to their children and their children's children and it's still with us today and it's now we know based on something very real well it seems like to me as a lay person with all this evidence and all this evidence that correlates it's all corresponding it all seems to fit together it would it would seem that this would be something that a lot of mainstream scientists and archaeologists would be extremely interested in like why would they try to ignore something like this the first thing they've tried to do is to get rid of it this is often the case where new information emerges that contradicts established established theories and it's a strange phenomenon in science because we like to think of scientists as as rational and and and reasonable people but the fact is that when you get very committed to a particular model to a particular idea I think you start to connect your own personality to it and any attack on that idea becomes an existential attack on you yourself how sad and it is sad because again and again what we see is the uh the new facts being dismissed because they don't fit the existing Theory where in fact what we should be doing is modifying the existing Theory to explain the newly discovered facts and this is a problem in the whole history of science well I remember when I first became aware of that problem when I watched the the documentary on the mysteries of the Sphinx where Dr Robert shock met with uh some archaeologist in Egypt it wasn't zi hawas it was a western guy and he met with this guy and they were explaining their theory about the erosions of the Sphinx and he was laughing at it La mean but openly mocking it like what evidence where's this evidence but it was the way he did it was just so riddled with ego I was like how could you first of all the concept of 11,000 years ago when you start thinking about 11 that's a long time and what what evidence really would be there other than Stone it seems to me there'd be very little I mean whatever fragments of pottery you'd be lucky to find we lucky to find it but looking for some massive evidence that clearly shows Beyond any shadow of it out well here it is like oh boy you're you're asking for a lot from 11,000 years ago and you have something pretty substantial right in front of you and he's mocking it exactly this is why I've I've come to view archaeology and and history is a kind of more ideology really than than science um there's there's there's an ideological view about how civilization developed that we have this long slow gradual politically correct rise from the upper Paleolithic from the hunter gatherers through the Neolithic into the first cities and we go on and on and then we develop Technologies and here we are the Apex and the Pinnacle of this whole story and gosh we're so proud of ourselves and our achievements and we think we're wonderful and we praise and value our technology I've got nothing against technology but there's a hint of arrogance in this there's a hint of of of Pride that it was all about us and I I think that the the once you start introducing this this new view of history that there may have been an earlier civilization a high civilization which was utterly wiped out by a global cataclysm why it contradicts that ideological position and you find yourself in ideological struggle with archaeologists and that's that's why you know so for example if my book is handed over to any archaeologist to review they're just going to piss all over it they're not even probably going to read it they're just going to say Han they say again and again hanok is a pseudo scientist nobody should listen to him that's their uh system of attack is to first of all devalue you so much that nobody will ever listen to you and that's why I appreciate the support of just real downto Earth people out there who are looking at this information and finding that actually yeah the story of History we've been taught doesn't make sense and this new does make sense of it well this new information in my eyes it seems It's So substantial and there's so much of it and it's so so much of it fits together it's incredibly difficult to ignore and much more so than when that documentary in the Sphinx was created that was quite a while ago charlon hon was the uh narrator it and and and um you know at that time uh we were sticking our necks out putting that putting that information forward I was in that documentary as well and and but today things have changed and and what I see is the the archaeological mainstream in a state of denial about this information they just don't want to recognize it and absorb it but they're going to have to recognize it it's going to be forced upon them whether they like it or not it's so sad because you you know you count on these people to distribute the information but they their egos get involved in things and if you've been teaching something for a long time then it turns out you gave out master's degrees on things that were completely incorrect absolutely it's absolutely and something else although this sounds a bit con conspiratorial I I think the existing view of history is part of a mind control system in our society it's it's something that we're presented with that we take in with our mother's milk and we're never supposed a question um I think it's if you control the past you do actually control the present and the future as well so but you mean if you have an absolutely established narrative that you're teaching and you're unwilling to look at any Poss I variations to that you're you're saying like almost from an authority position we know what happened and we know where we're going but if you say [ __ ] we don't know what happened then it's well well then who are you to tell us where we're going exactly and it starts to raise questions over everything right yeah and we're kind of in this in this mode now where um there's a a very large growing political agenda around the idea that humans are the sole cause of global change and that we are the dominant Force within this whole process now here we come along and we're saying well no there's actually been uh forces Unleashed on this planet that really utterly dwarf anything we've done yet what does that do to that to that Paradigm you see that's that's what I think what we're we're coming down here to part of the um the scenario now is that humans are engaged in causing the sixth great mass extinction as we talked about in one of your one of the previous and now we're coming along and saying well wait a second here's something from outer space that has come in and caused the last great mass extinction on Earth and what's interesting I found is that quite a number of the um the the scientists that have been in the opposition to the younger dras impact hypothesis have been in the Forefront of pushing this this scenario of human-caused mass extinction and blaming the extinction of the great megap that died out 12,000 years ago on human Hunters which I again we talked about that and I consider that ludicrous that you know paleo Indian Hunters using Spears are going to cause the extermination of 10 million woolly mammoths before they could even reproduce along with 120 other species of megap 65% of all mammals in North America were wiped out somewhere around that time Mega mammals Mega mamals which is over 100 pounds in body weight essentially actually more like 75% 75% 75% almost instantaneously right I mean it was over a course of a very short period of time the scientists who have been diligently working away in this in this field since they've published their first paper in in in 2007 I've just brought out a new paper in the procedings of the National Academy of Sciences July 2015 where they're doing a statistical analysis of all the sites where the evidence comes from and what that tells us is that this is what is referred to as an isochron this event 12,800 years ago it's not we're not looking at the effects of a 100 or 200 years of um events we're looking at something that happened effectively in a single afternoon across 50 million square kilometers of the Earth's surface oo that gives me goosebumps a single afternoon all over the world Everything Changes forever changes forever and it's [ __ ] for a thousand years absolutely absolutely and then i' I'd like Randle to address this issue of continent-wide wildfires because we do see this in the in the in the stratum that when you this superheated ejector coming down on on Ancient Primal forests consider the effect this is Murray Springs one of the Clovis sites and this is what the is known as the black matte layer where is Murray Springs it's in Arizona and it's it's Southern Arizona and it's near the Clovis site which is um New Mexico um Clovis impact site well no the Clovis site was where the one of the first places in North America where human remains were found in association with uh extinct Mega mammals such as woolly mammoths um and it's just outside of Clovis New Mexico they refer to them as the Clovis culture and because that culture was one of the casualties of this comet impact the comet impact is often referred to as the Clovis Comet okay yes and and many of these Clovis sites and there's been over 50 of them around now documented over North America I think about two-third of them have this black matte layer which shows up very clearly in this image now that black matte layer layer is black because of the uh considerable amount of carbon carbon soot that's in it so in other words right there that's the evidence of your wildfires is that this blanket of soot over the continent that left this black matte layer and below that black mat layer you'll find extinct Mega mammals like here you see the the yellow arrow there points to the black matte layer now if you look up you'll see how it's more buff colored that was the color of all of this but the soot that was in that black matte layer has dispersed and and colored the other adjacent layers but you'll notice the bones below are the bones of extinct mammals the bones found above it are extant or still existing mammals and that layer separates um these these these two domains of extinct mammals and extant just a very clear line yeah and and you can see it it shows up so clear right to people who are listening to this when we're looking at the original image that Randall showed it's almost like an Oreo cookie like there's just a clean line and then there's the white filling underneath I mean it is as clear as day and what are we talking about like how much fire and for how long creates this area well you're basically talking about burning up a considerable portion of the biomass of North America in unglaciated North America to do this and it's so you have the ice cap north of roughly Minnesota and south of it you have a heavily vegetated yes area covered with Primal forests and that's what goes on fire and the reason it goes on fire is because when these impactors come in they generate a huge amount of heat and and what is called ejector superheated ejector is thrown up into the upper atmosphere and it falls down all over the continent and it sets the world on fire God now at the perspective is so difficult in this it's a cuz this there's numbers that you guys are throwing around and there Concepts you're throwing around that I I just I have to pause when you're I go wait a minute I got to try to fit this in somewhere but it's the whole the whole world on fire yeah this is why I've written this book because it's mindboggling it's mindboggling material and and up till now most of the information has been confined to the really rarified scientific journals very little of it has got out into the public domain so one of the things I've tried to do is to put this together into into a form that's very accessible to the general public because we all need to know about this this is our yesterday this is our background this is this is where we come from the present order of the world has descended from that moment and what is the mainstream explanation for what we're looking at here like how do they describe this well the mainstream I mean the mainstream I to me now is fir Stone and West and and K yeah and when rattle says fireone and West and kennet he's talking about some of the lead scientists who have presented the evidence for the younger Drass impact because they have triumphed although they were attacked and sometimes viciously and and Frankly Speaking sometimes dishonestly they were attacked but they defended themselves so well and they kept on bringing in new data and new information that actually now we should be regarding their view as the mainstream yeah there are a few critics still hanging in there who would like human beings to have been responsible for the extinction of all the the mega mammals and who would who you know who just are in in denial about the climate change at that time but they're they're no longer the mainstream in my view well one of the problems with that theory is what you showed the last time you were here these the evidence of these wooly mammoths that died instantaneously and that there massive fields of them that something had to happen and ones with like their legs broken just bent over from the impact like you're it's pretty clear something went down and all of these pieces Point together and including looking at this which is just this is blowing my mind this a of the world on fire just well there were some places that apparently got spared yeah like Australia or something well Australia actually suffered a major mass extinction but earlier probably from some previous event maybe 30,000 years ago but just trying to figure out where to go if it happens again East Central Africa seems to have been one of the places of Refuge because if we look at the distribution of Mega mammals in the world today where do we find the greatest concentration in in Africa right well Africa has retained 90% of its Mega mammals from the place to scene whereas North America lost 75% if you go back to North America during the Ice Age there was as many mega mammals if not more species than there is in Africa today but what we see is that Extinction relates directly to habitat loss and basically not much survived in either North or South America North and South America were both severely affected by these events and lost 75% of their Mega mammals Eurasia lost between depending on where you go between 30 and 50% Africa only lost about 10% of them and that's why you see so many big animals still in Africa today a lot of them I think probably dispersed from the area around um the Great Rift Zone it seems like in a lot of the areas actually where we're finding early homodance is is in that same area that seems like for whatever reason it was spared somewhat of the the extreme severity that the rest of the planet suffered it's an interesting situation because when we look at the arguments of history and and and archaeology very little of the story is told in North America uh in as as it's taught in in schools and universities today you know they look at places like Su in Mesopotamia and and ancient Egypt and further down in South America some of the the the great cultures of the of the of the Andes but it's like North America is missing from from the map they they talk about hunter gatherers coming in here across the bearing straight and there's still a a a a dogged faction of archaeology that wants to maintain that that just happened about 13,000 years ago um and and that there was no human beings in the Americas before that although the mass of contradictory evidence is overwhelming that Dogma as well it's obvious that the Americans were populated long before that and those populations did not only come in across the bearing straight they came in in in other ways as well and and and then there just seems to be nothing for a very long time and and North America's kind of left out of the story of civilization well now I think we know why because North America was at the heart of This Disaster it was at the absolute epicenter and the Slate was completely wiped clean here and that's what archaeologists are are looking at they're seeing a WIP clean slate and they think they're seeing the beginning of something actually they're not they're seeing the movement of something after a horrendous disaster wow it's just it's so hard to wrap my mind around this idea that for literally A Thousand Years the Earth was just riddled with asteroidal impacts and fire and nuclear winter because of the dust and mass extinction of it's so hard the the numbers that you're throwing around and the ideas behind it it's it's it's very difficult for folks to put something in there that that um brings it home in a way see this um event 12,800 years ago we know now it was caused by fragments of a very large comet and The Works suggest that that Comet may have been more than 100 km in diameter originally when it entered the inner solar system see that's like 62 miles right is that some big big old Comet and these comets they come in from deep space how big was the one that killed the dinosaurs like five miles well that's thought to be 10 km wide that that mil that that object 10 six six miles wide and 10 times that big yeah these things these things come in from deep space there are reservoirs of comets there's a place that they call the or Cloud which is just so far away that it's almost impossible to imagine it but it contains trillions of comets and often they're they're in stable orbits they're not coming into the inner solar system but as the solar system orbits around the center of the Galaxy our galaxy is the Milky Way and we are in orbit around the center of the Galaxy our sun our solar system everything is in orbit around the center of the Galaxy and that orbit is not only in the plane of the Galaxy imagine a dolphin diving up and down coming out of the surface of the sea descending below rising up again that's what the solar system is doing and those passages through the galactic plane disturb the or cloud and they send comets winging in to the inner solar system thank God God for Jupiter Jupiter with its huge gravity is the great protector of the Earth we should all wake up every day and say thank you Jupiter this doesn't happen too often but every now and then a comet gets past Jupiter's God and comes in and enters the inner solar system and the calculations show this happened about 20,000 years ago and that Comet went into an orbit that crosses the orbit of the earth twice a year we are still crossing the orbit of that comet twice a year and there is still a very disturbing amount of debris within it it's called The Torrid meteor stream we've actually just finished our latest Passage through the torrid meteor stream the Earth passes through the torid meteor stream twice a year it takes 12 days to pass through it because the tour meteor stream more numbers is 30 million kilometers wide and we orbit at the rate of 2.5 million kilm a day so 30 12 days to pass through it and in the last last 11,000 or so years we've been lucky we've been passing through this 30 million mile wide stream we've been passing through bits where there are just filaments of small debris but the evidence is that it is actually full of large locky Rocky debris including one object that may be as much as 30 km in diameter sitting in that Torrid meteor stream so it's like I compare it to like strapping on a blindfold and crossing a six Lane Highway and just hoping that you don't get hit by a truck you know that's what it comes comes down to and we've been we've been lucky so far actually the most recent definite impact from the torid meteor stream uh was in 198 and that was in Russia in Siberia it's called the tunguska event as I said there's two passages through the stream one in June end of June early July and one in November and this was at the end of June an object not very big about 100 meters in diameter came out of the torid metus stream entered the atmosphere of the earth and actually blew up in the sky it was an air burst about 5 km above the ground it flattened 80 million trees across 2,000 square km I'm sorry I keep using kilm 2,000 square kmers of the Earth's surface that's an area about the size of the city of London if that impact had happened over an inhabited area hundreds of thousands of people would be killed and we would all be paying much more attention to the torid meteor stream today than we are presently doing we should be paying attention to it so we just got super lucky that it hidden a very lightly populated area and it didn't even hit blew up in the sky above it pull up see if you can find some image of tunguska cuz it's pretty staggering Stagg and it literally looks like there was like a Matchstick Forest that someone pushed over like a series of dominoes or something yeah God Jamie Jamie's a wizard kids out in the ball look at him over there yeah God so so here's the thing we are still interacting with the debris of this Comet that changed the world 12,800 years ago it it it's not something remote and distant it's part of our daily lives and and it is something we should be paying attention to and a number of astronomers are very concerned about the tourid meteor stream now I don't want to be the one who goes around the world you know wearing the Sandwich Board saying that Doom is nigh literally the sky is falling yeah I I don't want to be that I don't want to manifest that I don't want to bring that down I actually want to say that there's something positive to say about this we are almost certainly the first civilization that's ever existed on this planet that has the capacity to intervene in our Cosmic environment should we choose to do so we can make sure that we are not the next Lost Civilization we can make sure that life and light continue on this planet and that our story continues but we need to pay attention to our Cosmic environment and a number of scientists are now saying the same thing that that it's irresponsible of us to pretend that impacts like this may they just happen every hundred million years we don't need to worry about them we are intimately connected with a force that can change life on Earth and we have the power to do something about it so I would suggest instead of wasting you know trillions of dollars globally uh creating weapons of mass destruction to destroy one another and to to manifest the hatred and fear and suspicion that are just whizzing around the world right now we should be looking at a grand human project a Cooperative effort to make our Cosmic environment safe and we have the technology now it's just a matter of choice it's just a matter of budget trillions of dollars are spent on arms and roughly 20 to30 million are spent a year on so-called spacewatch it's a ridiculous chump change given the nature of the threat and and and the implications about the same as the cost to run one McDonald's restaurant for a year is what we're spending on studying the cosmic environment in terms of threats that's a hilarious comparison yeah what a resourceful little freaky animal people are if you really stop and think about it almost wiped off the face of the planet you know 10,000 12,000 years ago and then we reach a point where here we are in 2015 and through all these inventions we're starting to ReDiscover what our history truly is and ReDiscover the the history of the earth and and it's its interplay with all these Cosmic forces you know modern humans have now what 190,000 yeah the earliest I mean the earliest definite anatomically modern human skeletal remains date back about 196,000 years there's some other plausible ones that about 210,000 years nothing before that it doesn't mean that we were not anatomically modern before that it may just mean that archaeologists haven't found the the data yet but we can be sure that people like you and me have been around for about 200,000 years with the anatomically modern form and the anatomically modern brain so there's a mystery right there why did we wait 190,000 years to establish the first civilizations it it raises the possibility that we could have done so much earlier and that the Slate has been wiped clean think about it this way Joe my grandfather was born in 1895 the main mode of transportation aside from railroads at that time was horseback right his grandfather you know would have been born pre- Civil War so in five generations we've gone from the very first railroads the beginning of the Industrial Revolution to where we are now in five generations now if you go back 200,000 years say 196,000 and we divide that by 25 I love when Randle breaks out the almost we're looking at almost 8,000 generations of humans wow yeah now think about that within five generations we've gone from 90% dominant agriculturally based subsistance farming right feudal system to where we are now but now we've got 8,000 generations of humans on this planet who knows what we may have accomplished in the past but once you put this perspective and and you got to understand that the that the catastrophe we're talking about 12,000 years ago while all the evidence suggests it was the most severe probably at least within 5 million years because the last time we can find a species loss equivalent to the terminal Pine species loss was 5 million years ago the hemp hillian event it's called um which then I would then consider that again as a as a measuring stick for habitat loss which would in turn be a measure of the severity of whatever happened but the the the point is is that in the time that we humans have been around there have been multiple catastrophes of a global scale not as severe as the one we're talking about here but certainly the the framework of this planet has been shaken numerous times and in 200,000 years we've had probably four great glacial cycles that have come and gone now just a glacial cycle alone I mean think about that what the ice will do to the landscape and and dropping sea levels 400 feet and now during an Ice Age you've got to bear in mind that probably the most habitable place to be on the planet is going to be on Co Co lines along the mouths of rivers and so forth what happens when all that ice melts and sea level comes up 3 or 400 ft and and it's going to pretty much erase most of the evidence of human habitation although and I think I talked about this last time and and you would probably concur with this the the importance of marine archaeology it's extremely important but again unfortunately Marine archaeology has its Eye Off the Ball most of the resources in Marine archeaology going into shipwrecks looking for looking for shipwrecks right um and and you know I get that it's really interesting to look at shipwrecks but but there is a Prejudice in archaeology which says there could have been no interesting civilization before 12,000 years ago so since the those lands that were submerged by rising sea levels have been underwater for 10 or 12 thousand years we're not really interested in human habitations there and and and this is the problem a very focused effort needs to be made to look at these lost lands I can put that in Miles 10 million square miles of the Earth's surface roughly Europe and China added together was submerged by the rising sea levels at the end of the last I Jesus Christ that's what's missing from the record you know and and again we're talking about wiping the Slate clean and R's right those ice caps that sit on top of a continent which are Mountain High they're going to just ground grind to powder anything that lies below them so was there a civilization there before where the ice cap formed who knows a mile high of ice even more than that in some cases over over central Canada it might have been as much as 2 miles two miles just pushing across the ground like an eraser exactly and crushing the surface of the ground down I think in our discussions of Atlantis we covered that a little bit crushing the surface of the of the land down by perhaps a couple of thousand feet isostatic depression you remember the geology lesson I gave you last time yes about isostatic depression and we discussed how at this very moment the your ass is demonstrating an important geological phenomena of isostatic depression sitting on that cushion that you're sitting on and if you were to stand up what happens when the you stand up the cushion comes back up doesn't it it's exactly what happens and you can almost picture the planet breathing in effect the the the the ice is released from the Continental surface begins to rebound the weight is transferred back into the ocean basins and there has to be the what's called rology which is the study of the distribution of the inner mass of the Earth requires that there be compensation so if if in one area of the surface the land is rising somewhere else it has to be subsiding and the obvious place would be that as you transfer the weight from the continent back into the ocean basins that the ocean basins are going to sub subside and this brings us you know to the whole question of of of a of the scientific veracity of of a sunken land mass you know I think you have an interesting point on the aars in in this in this sense because there you have this massive it's like a seasaw there you have this massive weight pressing down on the North American continent and suddenly it's lifted that that that massive weight pushed down North America but it lifted up other areas the other end of the Seesaw then the weight comes off this end goes up and the other end goes down and suddenly you get the possibility of the submergence of a land mass it just falls under the sea because of and there is actually considerable empirical evidence suggesting that there was massive postglacial subsidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which is where the azos are yeah yeah and which is pretty much where Plato said Atlantis was yeah wasn't there some discovery of some concentric circles that were submerged somewhere near Spain that they considered to be a possibility cadis um I I don't think is that your Spain yeah it's it's um I think it's much more recent much much more recent than the than the information we're looking at so it's just another yeah Port that was submerged there could be a lot of reasons why this why why this happens actually it's happening in the in the UK where where I where I'm from because the ice sheets in the UK were on the north of the UK over Scotland and they were pressing Scotland down and they caused the southern part of England to rise up then when you take those ice sheets off the southern part starts to go down so that's places like the aisle of white in the English tannel they're sinking Beneath the Sea because of this still the effect of that rebound is happening today that's called the glacial for bulge where outside the the glaciers the land is pushed up you know this uh speaks to how people have a hard time accepting some of this new information I have a friend who's a scientist and uh the last time you were on she said to me did you have a climate denier on your show a climate change denier and I said he's definitely not denying it no no but some people that's all they hear when you bring forth a a non-mainstream point of view or a controversial perspective instead of considering the possibility it almost immediately gets dismissed as well this climate change thing is another ideological struggle yeah sure climate change is taking place but what are the causes for this you know are we so sure that it's all caused by human beings I would say there's a very good reason for Humanity to clean up our act in lots of ways regardless of the issue of climate change we're abusing Mother Earth We're living upon this planet like like parasites and and destroying it we thoughtlessly create gigantic pools of of pollution we're we're crazy enough insane enough to actually invent nuclear weapons and you know long periods of to detonate the bloody things you know this is there Lots about our behavior that we need to fix because it's right to fix it philosophically right we should not behave that way to one another we should not behave that way to planet Earth but to say that we need to fix our Behavior because of global warming that's an ideological argument and that argument remains to be properly tested yes global warming is occurring but are we the cause of it or is something else some some grander scale Cosmic effect involved in this we we talked about that considerably and I noticed in a lot of the comments from from our last discussion most of the critical comments were people you know not liking the idea that I had questioned the dogma of global warming but there are some facts that you can't escape know the global warming began 200 years ago and we see that the glaciers from the little Ice Age began to shrink back in the early 19th century before there was you know a century before there was any significant human cont contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere so something was driving that warming that began and it's important to realize that the little ice age was probably the coldest period since the end of the great ice age in fact the data overwhelmingly supports that and that the glaciers grew to their largest extent around the planet in 10,000 years so when we're talking about Glacier recession it's important to understand what the Baseline is our Baseline in this case is the biggest the glaciers have been in 10,000 years and what's interesting and this is going on right now as the glaciers have been receding geologists and biologists and and glaciologists and so forth have been studying um the landscap Apes that are being revealed as the ice shrinks back and you know what they're finding is the remains of forests that had been overrun by the little Ice Age glaciers up you know and and and Pete bogs and things that would suggest that prior to the onset of the little Ice Age those valleys that were filled with ice from roughly 1400 to 1800 were actually forested because the ice came down and overran these forests and now it's receding back and revealing that there were forests there so that tells you that you know at some point probably going back to the medieval warm period those areas that were that have been glaciated during the early part of the 20th century were actually free of ice and so you know the climate has been extremely Dynamic that's the thing we have to emphasize all by itself without any help from humans and this is what I'm been saying is that we have to look at that and and realize that yeah humans are a factor you know somebody I did post and said all the other factors I had mentioned as you know ocean currents and wind currents and geomagnetic field and cosmic rays and vulcanism and all that had all been investigated and dismissed and the only thing left was the human contribution but you know to me that's really we're putting all our eggs in that basket and that could turn out to be very dangerous because we're so focused now on our own contribution that we might be overlooking the fact that there have been Natural Factors driving climate change over and over and over again I mean because I still have not heard any consensus on what has caused the planet to First go into an ice age and come back out of an ice age and I think that what Graham and I are talking about actually presents a a possible solution to what could have brought this planet out of the Ice Age something on a grand Cosmic scale and the other point I think I'd like to make is that we have to really to understand our planet as a system we have to realize that it's part of a cosmic ecosystem and the cosmos has been a much bigger player in what's been going on down here than has been previously understood or appreciated and I think our ancestors probably did understand that they did understand it they they they the the focus on the skies if you go back into ancient times is so strong this notion of As Above So Below that we are connected to the cosmos this is this is something that we're tending to forget in the modern world again because we're so puffed up with pride and anyway we can't see the sky if we live in CI a big issue light pollution it's just like a haze up there we don't we don't see anything so we're we're actually cut off from the cosmos psychologically and that's that's a mistake because we we are part of this giant Cosmic environment and it affects us and one of the way it affects us is the way that comets come into the inner solar system from time to time from deep space I was camping in Montana recently and uh you know when you're out at night and you look at that night sky and there's no light pollution it's just a totally different perspective and it gives you a different sense of where you are in the universe because we're so and it's not it's not necessarily our fault it's almost like we've put up a curtain over the heavens and we can't see through the curtain because we've decided that we like light and we like traffic lights and you know building lights and all this Jazz and we don't realize until we're out in the woods or in the wild until you're in the wilderness and there's no light pollution you really don't realize what we're missing and what we're sacrificing in order to have these lights the view of the heavens it's it's so it's psychedelic in a way because it makes you feel like oh my God I'm we're really flying through space and nice that Mother Nature has provided us with those plots that really help us to appreciate it from I try to go every year to the cek observatory on the big island I try to schedule my uh holidays as much as possible around the time where there's no moon because it is UN believable because the kek observatory is more than 9,000 ft above seal there's a The Visitor Center and then there's the observatories above but you really don't even know how to go past the visitor center but they're um the way they have it set up they have these special street lights all throughout the big island with diffused lighting so it doesn't interfere it doesn't give you light pollution and when you're up there you're the you you go through the clouds and the view is insane it it doesn't even look real like you see all the stars like this can't be real how could this be up there every day and we don't see it but what we've done is create all this incredible stuff these streets and buildings and laptops and cell phones and in the in doing so we have robbed ourselves of a perspective yeah and it's weird because you know we we have this technology that enables us to go around the whole world and and even go out into outer space but actually we in a way it's narrowed our Focus we we we we focus in on the on the technology and its products and we forget about the Majestic Cosmic and and and Earth environment in which we live how sacred it is how beautiful it is how meaningful it is to all of us and that was the image that our ancestors always had and that's probably why they concentrated on it so much and the things that happened up there were evident to them I mean because these days how many people see meteors very living in an urban environment you never see that hard unless it's really spectacular but you go out like you said in Montana or the one of my favorite places to go out in the high desert country and there you really it's some the Stars almost you can reach out and touch them you know I think that one of the most important things that we could do for future Generations is part of our educational curriculum for young people is get them out of the Cities into nature into the tremendous you know where they can actually see the sky because I mean I you know in living in Atlanta I'll talk to people even grownup people that have have no clue you know you couldn't they couldn't find the North Star they couldn't find the plane of the ecliptic if their life depended on it they you know they're just we've we've become cut off from that level and I think that that's it's important for us to keep that because our Consciousness is linked to this greater domain and and we have segregated ourselves from that and and I think that there's something there you know amazing ly it's it's a grounding experience when you get out and you you begin to see the sky and you can actually um you know begin to to figure out and and and identify the constellations um you know to to know where the planets are to to look in the sky and it's really good mental exercise it's something worth anybody doing get to grips with all that up there as the Ancients did it it gets your mind working and it may even have been used deliberately for that purpose in ancient times as a kind of initiation system if you can get this then you move on to the to the next level you know that's the that's the that's the kind of idea well it was a critical part of Education where it's very rarely even discussed today Asom and look again at the ideology so for example if you talk about astrology to any most any mainstream scientist they're going to laugh in your face they're going to say pseudo science um because they're so locked into this Earth centered perspective that which which convinces them that the MOS does have no effect on us so how can changing patterns of the Stars which zodiacal constellation is sitting behind the Sun at a particular time how can that affect us how can when we were born uh affect us I don't think we should throw that baby out with the bath water too fast I think we looking at an ancient science with with astrology and I think it it's worth it's been heavily diluted and prostituted in the modern world but if you go back to the Antiquity you go back to the real origins of this and you start finding some very interesting information coming out there's a fantastic book by a guy called Rick taras called Cosmos and psyche and he's a real mainstream but very major academic and he's got into this and he's shown that actually yeah astrology does have effects so we should not deny our Cosmic environment that's the first thing we need to do to connect to it and we shouldn't close oursel off to Avenues of inquiry for ideological reasons it's it's noticeable in this field of ancient history how archaeologists throw around words like pseudo archaeologist or pseudo scientist that's meant to be an inst dismissal just like climate denal climate Den you call somebody a climate Den today that's like saying don't listen to anything that guy has to say never listen to it again these are ideological tools which are being used to straight jacket the human mind and to stop us thinking outside the box and if there's ever a time that we needed to think outside the box I would say that time is right now isn't it ironic that in this time of more information available to the average person ever before that this also has coincided with our lack of appreciation for what's above us very strange that it's a very curious phenomenon and here here's an interesting perspective you know as we're talking about how Dynamic the planet is and how it's changed and how dramatically different which it is I mean if we go back to the end of the Ice Age you know you go east of here out of the Mojave Desert that was Lush grasslands and forests you go out here to the Santa Rosa Islands you know out here they were all forested with oak trees and beach trees and and uh mammoth Mammoth exilus which was the pygmy Mammoth you know I mean everything down here changes dramatically but when we go out and we look at the sky we're basically seeing the same sky that our ancestors of 20,000 years ago were looking at and that's something to keep in mind because there's something there's a backdrop to all of this drama and change here below that's pretty much for the most part remained consistent but within that backdrop of consistency every once in a while something shifts and when it shift out there I think our ancestors knew that there was a direct consequence here below and that's one of the reasons they were so obsessed with with being able to track motion um you know all of these ancient observatories from Stonehenge on down the line to you know the the the mound structures here in North America and let's not forget gockley tee profoundly astronomical s gockley tee yes these were astronomical observatories using the Horizon essentially as a telescope by which very intimate and intricate movements within that backdrop of fixed Stars could actually be observed possibly for predictive uh capabilities and how are the calculations man like when when an archaeologist finds a site like gole go Quebec tee how do they correlate the construction of the site with the constellations well first off Mo most archaeologists don't do that at all because they just don't do astronomy they don't get it their their eyes are on the ground at their feet twoin astronomy is not relevant to them they project that onto the past and imagine that it was not relevant to the past and that's one of the big mistakes I think that archaeology makes there are people called archo astronomers uh who are looking at the astronomy of ancient cultures and some of them have done very good work but really there there are certain key indicators um the alignment of the site what's it pointing at and does that alignment change down the ages um you can sometimes establish that that a particular axis of a particular temple in Egypt for example was shifted over a period of 2 or 3,000 years several times and why because they were tracking the changing Rising point of the star serus which they connected in their system of ideas to the Goddess Isis they were tracking that Rising point which changes because of changes in in the sky I mean long story short the Earth wobbles on its axis and that since the Earth is our viewing platform from which we observe the Stars changes of orientation of the Earth in space do change the rising times of particular stars at particular times of year and and this was clearly tracked by the Ancients so you can say that if you find anywhere a monument that is perfectly aligned to true north south east and west you can be absolutely sure that astronomers were involved if it's tracking the Rising Sun on the Spring Equinox or on the winter or summer solstice astronomers were there they were right there when they met they made that Monument well that's one of the scariest or not the scariest but most astounding things when you consider the Ancients that they had an an understand understanding of the procession of the equinoxes exactly which is what was a 26,000 year cycle 25,920 years how how did they very long very precise observations and the motive to make those observations that this was important to them and they sought to pass down that importance to to us um very important work by two historians of science called Giorgio de santiana and hea vend back in the they wrote a book called Hamlet's Mill which tracks this ancient knowledge of procession and they trace it back and this was very politically uncorrect at that time because Georgio Sano de santiano was the professor of the history of science at MIT they trace it back to what they call some almost unbelievable civilization of prehistoric Antiquity that made this OB they found the data encoded in myths and traditions all around the world and I I do go into this in magicians of the gods they they found it in as though the data were so important that it had to be passed down to the Future so the numbers that relate to procession of the equinoxes and they're all based on the number 72 and multiples of that number why because it takes 72 years for one degree of processional change to unfold and that's like holding your finger up to the Horizon that one degree is just that one finger width of change on the horizon very precise observations are needed to do it it's encoded in myth and traditions and it looks like somebody at some point decided this information is so important we must make sure that it stays permanently in human culture so what we're going to do is we're going to encode it in Great stories and those stories can then be passed on by storytellers who will have an ethic that they must tell the story true it doesn't matter whether they understand the scientific information in the story or not all that matters is that they pass it on and so in the oldest myths and traditions of mankind we have compelling evidence for scientific knowledge of the phenomenon that we call the procession of the equinoxes today which has been referred to by by um in Hamlet's Mill as the great year which is the full cycle 25,920 years a great circle in the heavens it's very evident if you've got thousands of years to watch the sky it's very evident at the pole um our pole star presently is Polaris and that's just simply because the extended North Pole of the earth points most directly at that particular star in the sky uh but it hasn't always pointed at Polaris because of the wobble on the axis of the earth and it won't always point at Polaris in the future the pole star changes but you need to observe the skies for very long periods of time keep detailed records to get to grips with this phenomenon this therefore testifies to the fact that some ancient culture was doing this in a very systematic way it's like a ghostly fingerprint of of an advanced scientific knowledge impressed upon the oldest myth and traditions of our planet has it been I'm sorry is it has it been accepted that things like the Mayan temples were were built to mirror the constellations is that accepted by it is it is accepted because we know that the Maya were were an astronomical culture and it is it is accepted that they were building their their their temples in connection to the sky and the whole phenomenon of the Mayan calendar um you know which we all heard a lot about in in in 2012 uh is is another Factor to take into account the Mayan calendar in my view is another artifact of A Lost Civilization this is that that was handed down from a former people perhaps to the Alx and then to the the Maya who who succeeded them it's it's accepted but the implications of it are not are not taken properly into account remember 21st of December 2012 there was all that fasta nonsense about the end of the world happening happening then and and it didn't but that's the Maya never said that they said that the end of a great cycle happened then which would ultimately transform the world but what it was actually locked into and I need to pay tribute to another researcher here and his name is John Major Jenkins has done fantastic work on the Mayan calendar and decade before 2012 he was telling people look this is not talking about the end of the world on a specific day on the 21st of December 2012 there's a there's a calculation behind this and what he showed in that calculation is that it is the position of the winter solstice Sun against the background of the constellations and what has been happening for the last 5,000 years because of procession is that the winter solstice Sun 21st of December against the background of the constellations has been gradually shifting towards alignment with the center of the Galaxy and that alignment happened uh on the 21st of December 2012 but it's not an instant it's a window and that window is about 80 years wide roughly from 1960 to 2040 that was what was focused on in the Mayan calendar a calendar that can predict eclipses of the Moon 200,000 years into the future or 200,000 years into the past incredible stunning accuracy a better estimate of the length of the solar year than we use today in our modern calculations really yeah wow High science encoded in that in that calendar why don't we just adopt the Mayan calendar if it's better than what we have I don't yeah we're now living in the fifth age of the world according to the May the day to-day use yeah it may not have been that it's probably not good for your iPhone wouldn't make a good app I bet they have a mind calendar app I'm sure they do you you can think of one one one half of a degree Graham said one degree every 72 years right one degree within the great year is like one day out of the great year right so you could think of 72 years as basically being a human life so so an average human life is roughly like a day of the great year that's one way one perspective that's interesting yeah yeah now what he said about the window is because you know you can't define the center of the Galaxy with an exact precise Point there's a diffuse area there and every 72 years the the the the spring point is moving one degree which is twice the diameter of a full moon full moon is a half degree right and I think that possibly one of the importances of monitoring um because you can't really you know you can't go out and look at the sun you know and say okay here's the sun relative to this backdrop of this constellation however you can look at a a full lunar eclipse um and then you you will know that the sun is 180° around so by monitoring lunar eclipses you can actually position the sun quite precisely and know where it is in the sky because obviously you can't go out and look at the Sun and see what stars it's it's related to right right but during a lunar eclipse it's 180° MH almost precisely on the other side of the Earth from the from the Sun so can can I just just jump in for a second because I have a an image here I don't know if we can get go back and it's and it's this image on on on this side it's a pillar with Rich carved uh showing a is that pillar 14 pillar 43 in enclosure D now I'm I'm not going to go into it in detail now I've seen that online Jamie will find images online I just want to make the point and I I I go into this in in this book magicians of the gods that that that appears to be a diagram of the sky at the winter solstice in our Epoch this this the round dot above the vulture's wing the round circle represents the Sun and what we're looking at is an ancient constellation diagram the constellations that we call Sagittarius and Scorpio uh stand on either side of the galactic center of the of the dark rift at the heart of the Milky Way which the Maya saw as the womb of cosmic rebirth and it's precisely that image that is depicted there I back it up chapter and verse in the book you'll just have to take my is that why we see the Scorpion below yeah there's a there's an ancient memory that there should be a scorpion in that area of the sky and it's impressed here on this on this pillar and what are the other constellation Clues well the the up on the right uh you'll see first of all see the vulture with its wings outstretched and the sun over the wing then go right of there you'll see a bird uh that's that small bird is actually the head of our constellation of Scorpio the tail of our constellation of Scorpio overlaps the Scorpion uh underneath the pillar but go above the small bird and you'll see a serpent there a a snake and beside it another bird that looks like a penis those represent we call those yours maybe we call those constellations today ofus the serpent holder which is the represented by the bird there and we call the serpent constellation serpens um other other constellations are are are also involved uh it this is spooky and and and Eerie uh because it appears there's overwhelming evidence that the people who made gockley had a profound knowledge of procession and it appears that they deliberately sent forward into time in this time capsule a picture of the sky in our age and that is a staggering possibility that that I investigate I don't understand how it's in our age well it's only at the winter solstice in our age that the sun sits over the center of the Galaxy the winter solstice in the area that the ancient Maya called called The Cosmic womb there's a dark rift in the Milky Way at that point and they saw that as the cosmic womb so it symbolizes a moment of rebirth and the evidence is that they'd been tracking the movement of the sun on the winter solstice which is also the end of the year and the rebirth of the new year they've been tracking it to the point where they could project forward and they could envisage the sky in our Epoch today the Maya could do that and what I'm suggesting is that's done at gocke as well wow it's very hard for me to interpret the this I'm seeing the vulture playing basketball trying to get away from the Scorpion and there's a penis trying to attack him yeah I'm not exactly sure no the the the photograph alone that's just the heart of the mystery you have to get into the logic of it and compare it with the existing constellations and I've tried to do that in well it's also fascinating that all of these images were carved in 3D relief so instead of being what that means is instead of being drawn like into like you know people think about like wet cement you could draw your name in wet cement instead of that what they've done is they've removed everything around it to create these images which is a much more sophisticated way this this is what's called high high relief um interestingly you can see at the top of the pillar there are three that look things that look like handbags that symbol crops up all over the world it crops up in Mexico it crops up in Mesopotamia it crops up in India everywhere and again I think we're looking at at symbolism that goes back to a very remote period which we know is at least as old as 11,000 maybe what they're trying to say is that shopping will be the end of us all I think those bags held their stash really and and I'm half serious because this is this is another issue that that is ignored by the mainstream is the use of psychedelics in ancient civilizations was fundamental to the quality of those civilizations and this is another area we're in ideological denial about because the powers that be in our society don't like psychedelics they don't want ancient cultures to have liked the mind there and they just ignore the evidence for that I think it's one of the main points of view that uh when you don't consider them it makes me really reluctant to listen to a lot of the other things you have to say because it's it's undeniable the impact those things have on human consciousness and it's also undeniable that many many many civilizations use them as a part of their spiritual rituals and the fact that this is not thought of as an important aspect of our history when all it means to me is the people that are talking about it haven't experienced them exactly that's the problem only the archaeologists who are the entrusted with interpreting our past to us unfortunately most of them have never taken a psychedelic in their life they don't gra them and and go look I just need 15 minutes of your time one DMT trip 15 minutes and the whole thing will be so much clearer to you so much clearer exactly it's I think it's an important experience for archaeologists to have because it was a universal experience in the ancient world we demonize psychedelics today and we we pretend that they are just totally negative things but in the ancient world they were revered and enshrined they were the heart of the ancient Mysteries the ucini mysteries in ancient Greece used a potion related to LSD which brought about a revelation for the initiates changed their lives just in the way that a powerful psychedelic trip can change our lives today so just like writing about history and the origins of civilization without taking account of whoops this gigantic cataclysm that happened 12,800 years ago that's a mistake that Archaeology is making the other mistake they're making is they're not considering the role of Altered States Of Consciousness in ancient civilizations ideological blinders keep us from looking at possibilities I don't know whether or not that's stash or whether that's just chicks handbag like it's saying shopping it's malls malls will ruin us all that's what the weird thing is that it's all that that this symbolism is all over the world what if goley Tapley was a mall what that's now you may have something there um the symbolism of these purses yeah this yeah it's found all over the world for example um I we'd have to find a an image but there's a the earliest image of the figure known as qual coatal in Mexico uh survives from uh the alch area of the Gulf of Mexico um and it was found at a site called laventa uh along with a lot of other buried Stone artifacts and it shows a man sitting within the coils of a serpent and that serpent has a Crest on its head because that's what qual coatl means it means a feathered serpent and that man is holding one of those bags just the same as really W the saman fish man the O Anis the the wanad Dappa the the originator of civilization in Su ancient ancient Sumer according to their mythology he's always depicted holding one of these bags as well so I find myself wondering are we looking at the symbolism of some ancient Brotherhood you know who passed around the world seeding civilizations and that this was the equivalent of their I don't know their Masonic handshake or something this was their Badge of recognition this bag that They Carried well it's just speculation right it's it's p speculation interesting it's pure speculation but so because of the fact that we they they've accepted that the mind temples are aligned with the constellations have they decided to look at other archaeological discoveries in the same light or is this something there are there is a specialized subdivision of archaeology which is called archaeoastronomers these an accepted subdivision accepted subdivision these are these are archaeologists who've been trained in astronomy but they've also been trained in the fundamental dogmas of the discipline of archaeology which is that there can be no Lost Civilization ation that archaeology has already told pretty much the full story of humanity and that all the Waits all that awaits is to fill in the details this is this is the dogma of archaeology that is taken in from the moment that somebody decides to become an archaeologist part of the training and actually if you try and go against that Dogma as a mainstream archaeologist you can kiss goodbye to your career any archaeologist who entertains the possibility of an advanced Lost Civilization around the world more than 12,000 years ago will have no future as an archaeologist that right there will write him off for for for the rest of his career that's so disturbing it's so disturbing if that's true that's so it's so mind-numbing cuz why would you ever believe that we've got it all figured out where every day they find some new stuff did you see the discovery they found recently of a large tooth that's a a cousin of uh of human beings Dennis Soven yeah just re really recently within the last few days very very recently well this is the thing you see the our our story is much more complex than we've been taught and and gradually bit by bit the evidence is coming out of the woodwork well the idea that we have all the data of history is just so crazy it's just not true and and arrogant this is it's absolutely foolish yeah it's a very foolish idea and it and it shuts us down to the to the possibilities I mean the universe gifted us with these giant brains and this incredible imagination and and intuitive faculties as well we're not only rational creatures we're we're intuitive cre prees and all of these faculties should be applied to understanding the mystery of who and what we are and I think that's one of the mistakes of modern Sciences that's just chopped out one bit the kind of alert problem solving bit the rational reason use of reason and logic and it and it's chopped Out All the Rest the the the the the capacity of humanity to dream to learn information in dream to learn learn true knowledge in dream was revered in the ancient world and just ridiculed today you want to insult somebody call him a dreamer you know uh things have things have changed so much well it seems like back then there was so much less information and now there's so much information to call someone a dreamer means that you're you're thinking of nonsense when you should be trying to acquire all the information that we've already discovered that we've already accumulated exactly that's exactly what it's about and again it's it's ideology it's saying that there is nothing of value in dreams how do we know that ancient world felt that there was useful knowledge to be got from from dreams not all dreams it's in Homer actually he speaks of the Gate of Ivory and the Gate of horn some dreams come through the gate of ivory they're just Pleasant fictions or maybe unpleasant ones nightmares ignore them they're not important but others are true tellings and they come through the gate of Horn uh and and this was a recognized factor in the ancient world we've dismissed it today it's regarded as pseudo science it's regarded as nonsense again that label is constantly applied to anything archaeologists don't like pseudo science right there with the label they just dismiss uh everything they always call me a pseudo scientist which means a false scientist and I find that bizarre because I'm not a scientist at all I've never claimed to be a scientist I don't want to be a scientist I'm a writer I'm a journalist i i i synthesize material across a broad range of disciplines so how can I be a false scientist since I've never claimed to be one but the word is used as a bludgeon or a club to beat an enemy over the head and ensure that nobody listens to what that enemy says yeah it's a sort of a bulletproof pejorative you know you throw that out there and you're immediately dismissed yeah but it's got to be satisfying to you going from that original book which I became absolutely fascinated by Fingerprints of the Gods to slowly but surely over time more and more evidence being discovered in mainstream science and archaeology that affirms all these suspicions and then attached to what Randall has been studying his whole life it really the whole thing just sort of unfolds in front of your eyes there's a there's a kind of the perfect perfect moment in human knowledge unfolding right now we now have the knowledge of this giant cataclysm that happened 12,800 years ago which has just not been taken into account at all up to now and at the same time and it's almost Eerie archaeological sites are popping up all around the world that cannot be explained by the previous model of history now with all of this information that you've shown so far the the the the layer that shows the massive burning of the forest the impact craters that we found the nuclear glass the micro diamonds all this evidence the the IM IM immediate shift of the climate the mass extinction of a huge percentage of the large mammals is the impact period that period is that considered in mainstream science or they just it's considered in mainstream science because it's mainstream scientists who've presented the evidence as I said all the data you've accumulated in correspond all comes from from mainstream science published in in the absolute leading scientific journals um but you're stitching it together what what nobody has done yet I I think I'm probably the first person to do it is to take that evidence and consider its implications for the stories we tell ourselves about the origins of civilization very important story where did civilization come from what is it and that information has not been taken into account at all by archaeologists yet I hope they will do so in the future they need to play a very fast game of catchup to catch up with the science on this and take it into account but right now it's not being taken into account at all you will not find a single archaeological document which takes account of the cataclysm that happened between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago big part of the problem is specialization and science I think so you've got um you know paleontologists looking at the extinction of you've got you know Marine geologists looking at sea level rise you've got glaciologists looking at how the glaciers disappeared and we're in a position now where we need to begin synthesizing all this you know what's interesting to me though is that it it really it almost falls on the shoulders of of the Mavericks you know the synthesizers and that's kind of really right now there's so much specialization in science that the next phase of it I think is beginning to integrate it to to create a coherent model of our past because a lot of like Graham is saying a lot of the mainstream scientists have this information right if I if we look at this graph right here and you see how this Compares with um the graphs we just saw of the climate changes and the ocean level rise this is a as it says late place to see mortality graph and this is basically looking at radiocarbon dated uh fossilized remains of the extinct mammals and if you look carefully you'll see that within the range that we're talking about right in here here's your 13,000 year Spike right here is exactly the same time period and exactly the same as the changing of the temperature the Ring of the sea levels massive Extinction event right and there it is right there every one of these squares represents a fossilized remain I think the 360 or 70 specimens that have been dated it seems insanely unlikely to me that this didn't correspond with an impact on human civilization it's it's very it's very clear that it it's ins it seems insane that it's not like mainstream and cons I me if this is all fact and obviously it is how is this not like how's this is so glaring happen it raises a horrible possibility for archaeology that they have been completely wrong about the origins of civilization I mean not just slightly wrong but completely wrong because they didn't take account of this that's a horrible possibility and it's much better to just try and get rid of the data I'm I'm not saying that it's a conspiracy by archaeologists I'm saying it's human nature if you're invested in a system of ideas so powerfully invested in it that your own personality is connected to it you just can't accept it it's really hard to accept almost your generation has to die off before a new generation comes that will be prepared to just with threaten ass you're not I said because it impact I think you're right yeah yeah and and and that's I think that's the problem why it's not been taken and Randall's right the other problem is the intense specialization of our society that's one of the strengths of our society there's also one of the weaknesses of our society that everybody is really good at one particular thing that's the only way it all works out because no one could possibly get all this work done and it's all we're all interdependent upon upon one another but there's not enough comparing notes across the the the disciplines and I guess that's where where my skills such as they are come in that I I've spent my whole life synthesizing data from from many different fields and that's what I'm that's that that's that's what I'm doing here it also correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like there's part of the issue is there's no consequence to not considering this stuff there's no consequence to just ignoring it they ignore it they te Teach what they've taught mainstream and they still come out smelling like a rose and everything looks great exactly and they and they all keep their jobs don't annoy colleagues it's almost the opposite of that because to to go here they're actually you know they're threatening their position you know they're they're they're putting their position in danger but I don't understand why they would be because to me it seems like you would want to say we have some exciting new data so this is now we have to reconsider what we already know you know about this part of the world and this was we already know about the place era we already know about all these different eras but now we have this new data to consider and here all it is they should be excited about it they should be joyous that there's there's something here which really could change the whole picture but that's not the case it's it's it's radically opposed well it just it makes your education look like [ __ ] yeah I'm afraid it's really unfortunate but it really does you see this is an area that Randall and I happen to to to know a lot about what I wonder is in other areas that I don't know about is this same phenomen at work that kind of knowledge filter which is just shutting us off what what discipline would that be are you just speculating social sciences any any any area of science medicine how things are to be done with with medicine how uh tumors are to be handled and dealt with you know we have we have a Dogma right now that it's chemotherapy and radiotherapy and and every other system is is regarded as what pseudo science generally but maybe that's a mistake you know maybe we should be considering the possib of these alternative therapies maybe they're better than blasting somebody with highly radioactive material well I I I certainly think there's some there's some things that we don't know about the impact of nutrition and overall health and meditation and just the impact of stress and well-being and how it plays on on on health factors and I think we're going to learn all that I mean I think there's there's probably more discussion and more uh more focus on that than there is on stuff like this this sure sure there is our personal health is important to to all of us and and this is part this kind of a part of our personal health to is it's a part of our understanding of the very environment that we exist in where we where we came from yeah absolutely now you got how long did you guys road trip together it's about two weeks wasn't it R A little little shy of two weeks and what what did what did it entail did you guys make a video of it or anything there was a lot of video shot and and one of one of Randall's colleagues Brad who was with us uh shot video along the way and my wife Santa took photographs and you know we've put we've we've documented all of this very very very very thoroughly but it was an amazing road trip for me um it was the first time actually I've I've driven a great distance across the continental United States I've always been in this city or that City and picking up an airplane and going here and there but actually drive across this incredible Majestic land uh was a was an enormous experience for me and it made me it filled me with a sense of just how huge America is I live in this tiny Island you know Britain but this giant these open the open Skies country that they they call it in there it was it was a great initiation into in into a beautiful part of North America and a mysterious part of North America and it was great to do it with Randall um because he's been walking the walk in this in this area for for decades and he knows that landscape like the back of his hands yeah and for people that are listening to this podcast right now this is your first introduction to Randall and Graham you got to go pause right now and go back to the first one Graham was on the first one Rand was on just do a binge just binge listen or binge watch what are we looking at here well this is gram um trespassing how dare you I'm like I'm watching in all directions supposed to be there no well since the since the first time I was there this is grahe actually referred to this erratic earlier um this was one of those this is that 18,000 ton Boulder sitting above wachi so that was the boulder that was pushed by the by it was carried aboard an iceberg an ice ched an iceberg so a that this massive Rush of water had giant rocks embedded in the iceberg yeah and to float that you need an iceberg about the size of an oil tank yes and and this is this is sitting 400t above the modern day Columbia so we know that the water was at least this High well actually it had to been higher than this because 90% of the iceberg is under the surface of the water and how do we know that this rock just wasn't there how do we know that it was carried by this uh well because it's not part of the Bedrock it's sitting on top of the land surface like all of these if we we look here we've got some some other do we know where it came from do we know how far away it or it's probably come from about 50 mil to 75 miles north of here it's it's the type of baled is is is has been identified I don't remember specifically but when you travel over this land you see these giant Boulders just strewn about there's a place called Boulder Park it's a tourist attraction now you see it yeah yeah and you can see there I mean the size of that and there's let's see oh my God so they just stand out like out of nowhere yeah and we we know this had to have been transported aboard an iceberg for the simple reason that if it was carried within the glacier Mass like a typical Glacier erratic you wouldn't have those sharp square corners like that a glacier radic gets ground off right and often times and this thing was transported almost 200 miles from its likely origin was Mount Robeson and we didn't get to this one but this is evidence that the the flooding was much more extensive than just the Missoula right flooding because this is the the the Missoula flooding that we were looking at was on the west side of the North American I should just jump in there and say that um it isn't any longer controversial that there was gigantic flooding in the Pacific Northwest and indeed across the whole range just south of the ice cap that that is accepted now but the very idea that there was Flooding at all was hotly opposed for for decades there was a great American geologist called Jay harand Bretz who was the first to document the fact that there had been colossal flooding in that area and he lived in the 1900s 19 1920s and because he suggested that there had been a cataclysm of course he was exiled by his colleagues eventually his data prevailed and he was awarded the Penrose medal the highest Award of the geological geology in America in 1976 when he was like 96 years old that must have sucked for him and he said then he said he said all my enemies are dead so I have no one left to gloat over that's what he said oh my go but it's so disturbing to me that it works like that yeah it works like that so but what happened you see was Haren bretts was convinced in the beginning that he was dealing and this is a very experienced field geologist that he was dealing with a single humongous flood which had risen and Fallen within perhaps 2 weeks that was his evidence on the ground and he was attacked because people kept saying well where did the water come from you know what's the source of this water and he he said that's not my my problem I I am showing you the clear unmistakable evidence of flooding on the ground flooding happened somebody else go work out where the water came from and this stuck the whole argument for the best part of 40 years until a compromise was reached and that's the word that Randle used moua they said that this flooding was caused by Outburst floods from a glacial Lake that's referred to as glacial Lake Missoula and because the flooding is so extensive it must have Outburst 80 or 90 times to cause to cause that flooding which completely contradicts har and bretz's view that it was a two-e flood one single event but the compromise was accepted that the cause of the flooding was glacial Lake missoui that is now going to have to be reviewed because of the Comet evidence if harand bretts if Jay harand bretts had had the information we have today he would have known instantly what caused that single humongous flood and that was the liquidizing of a huge area of the North American ice cap instantly and the floods that followed it's so fascinating that the the obsessions of a few people come together like this and you can kind of piece these things together on a podcast Randall what is this crazy imag well this is actually out of a 18 century text when catastrophism before catastrophism had been completely exercised from mainstream geology and this was um uh Lewis figure I think was his name who speculated that the that the ice sheets over Northwestern Europe had catastrophically melted down and he had an illustration in his geology text which perfectly captures how these larg erratics are actually being transported aboard these ice Bergs and you can see the scale of the thing and this is the kind of you see whole forests are about to be washed away here and this this this image when the first time I saw it I thought well here it is this this depicts the kind of field evidence that we we've been looking at here um so that's why I've included this here because it helps to visualize what what we're talking about um we've got some this was a place that Graham and I visited here which really spectacularly embodies this whole phenomenon this is known as as Dry Falls Cataract and it's about 5 miles wide and I'm going to show you ground photographs and a couple of aerial photographs of it so you can kind of get the scale of the thing now this was and the great thing is anybody can go there this is this is on the land it's it's ours to look at we all go and see this it's amazing trip to see it you could go there Joe they would let you in there to see this where were you trespassing oh on that particular shot that that huge 18,000 ton Boulder has is surrounded by which say no trespassing they weren't there when I was there a few years on it so I trespassed I mean the thing is made a bassal and my footstep is not going to do it any harm yeah I bet you nobody even noticed that Graham had been up there it's not like a private property issue it's like they're just trying to keep people I think it is actually a private prop probably is cuz I have noticed from the first time I went there which was gosh I don't know 98 I think there was no houses on that Hillside now the houses are moving up the hillside development and so houses pretty much right around it so yeah we're going to overrun it and there'll be no evidence you guys got to accumulate your evidence while you came before condos go up there that's also true now now you'll notice these that there's a series of these alcoves here that that you know these these horseshoe shape back on the image of Dry Falls yeah back on the image of Dry Falls exactly and and at some point somebody's going to be able to see these images right yeah well people could go and Google them online but they'll see them right now on YouTube if they watch the YouTube version YouTu okay so here's a typical Horseshoe Falls of Niagara which is which is a modern uh cataract receding Cataract and this this horseshoe shape is very typical of the way water will erode Bedrock because water flows faster in the middle of the stream therefore it erods faster in the middle and not so much as you get towards the margins and so it creates this classic horseshoe shaped profile and that's what we're seeing here at Dry Falls now this is just one of the alcoves of about half a dozen of the alcoves that we saw in the the map of it in other words this is a monstrously big waterfall yes now dry today just off to the left of the picture is is where um actually there's a photograph in Graham's book taken um from let's go back we skipped over it there it is this is the Viewpoint and this is Horseshoe Falls of Niagara superimposed on dryfall so you can get a sense of the scale so Niagara Falls is a tiny tiny little thing by comparison with this ancient fossilized waterfall which dates back 12,800 years Niagra Falls is the result of 12,000 or more years of work of the river Dry Falls between upper and lower Gran koui in Washington state is the result of two weeks of flooding what yeah and for people try to explain this for people that are listening because it's it's probably 10 times bigger plus more than that how many how many times bigger it's two and a half times as high and well figure this the the discharge over of the Niagara River over the falls is a couple hundred thousand cubic feet per second maximum the the discharge over Grand koui was somewhere between 300 and 400 million cubic feet per second or in other words somewhere between 10 and 20 times the combined flow of every river on Earth flowing all at once and the height of this scarp face here this Cliff is about 400 ft the water coming over was about 400 ft deep so if you are here visualiz see witnessing this at the peak of the flood you wouldn't in fact even see a waterfall what you would see is this massive 10mile wide turgid River choked with icebergs and debris and whole forests rer flowing at what 60 70 M hour 60 70 M an hour what you would have seen here was just a bump in this flood and then only at the latter stages of it would it actually have been a waterfall as the as the Water Source was dissipating and as the water was declining you would have the final stage of it being a waterfall then eventually the waterfall stopped and what you have today is this fossilized feature of this massive and this is only one of about a half a dozen comparable siiz cataracts we didn't get to see potholes or Frenchmen [ __ ] next time perhaps so many others I I'd urge anybody listening to this if you can do so get up to Washington State and go visit upper and lower gr koui it's it's a stunning a stunning landscape it's a great trip to make and and and you can see the evidence on your on the ground and you know people don't know about you know we got like here this is Utah and what you see here is once you begin to understand cataract formation and and you understand the morphology of a cataract you look at something like this and what you're looking at is cataracts extinct cataracts out in Canyon lands Utah and they're massively scaled but no geologists see here's the problem geologists haven't been focused on catastrophism what they've been doing they work for the government they work for the oil companies they they're more interested in what's down below the the the natural gas the oil and stuff money is there's another Point there's another point I'd like to add to that Randall as to why geologists are not focused on catastrophes uh geology uh is a science uh and and Science in effect defined itself as being different from religious Superstition so the notion of the great flood that we find in the Bible became a very discredited notion in science and and the the by by by association with that any suggestion of a great cataclysm in the past was seen as superstitious Behavior to be shunned completely by the squeaky clean shiny new Sciences who must never take that into account so any geologist who dares to propose a cataclysmic episode is up against that right away that his colleagues don't want to go there because they're afraid that they're going to be accused of buying into no as flood or whatever that's so unfortunate but it's true and and this is the problem so there's there's catastrophism and uniformitarianism and the prevailing Dogma in geology is the uniformitarian Dogma which is basically to say the way we see things in the world today that's how it's always been it's never been any change so Randa what is the mainstream understanding of those those those formations like what when they look at those the Utah ones for example gigantic Utah I have searched and searched and I find nothing they just don't explain it they don't explain they just go oh look how pretty do you think the flooding went as far south as Utah not directly glacial I think what we're looking there has to be torrential rain right Tor which which is another Association of this of this impact picture this huge impacts on the ice cap an enormous amount of water material is thrown up into the into the atmosphere not only water but also mud and and you get this rain out which comes down for a long period after that and I'm not necessarily saying that all of that was stripped in one event because the pine is basically two and a half million years two I think 2.6 million is the latest dating of it and there's been probably a dozen or two dozen ice ages that have come and gone to me the evidence I'm seeing suggests that the transition from glacial to interglacial and back again is not a smooth process in fact it's probably highly catastrophic um not necessarily as catastrophic as the event we're talking about 12,800 years ago but certainly catastrophic enough that were an event of equivalent magnitude to happen today we could maybe not cause a mass extinction but we could certainly pull the plug on Modern civilization um and so this this picture is interesting because what it does is it it it shows that you know you travel over this this landscape explain what this picture is and where is it okay you know now this is um this is in uh Western Montana and this is place called um Dry Creek and what this is is just a gravel pit but what you see here is deposits caused by surging flood waters moving up tributary valleys loaded with sediment and one of the things that a strateg grapher or a sedimentologist looks at is you notice how they're tilted you see how the the layers are tilted okay that's an indication of which direction the water is moving the tilting goes down in the direction that the water is Flowing so what we see here is massive turbulent sediment Laden flood waters back flooding up a valley surging leaving deposits and then flowing back out followed by another wave for now for 13,000 years 12,000 years this material has been laying there and you see that there's forests growing over it okay people traveling over this landscape don't see what's under their feet you see but once you get an outcrop like this and you understand and you can read what you're seeing here then suddenly it becomes apparent that the that the very Hills and Landscape that we're that we live on that we've built our cities on and our highways and that we're playing out all these dramas that right under our feet is the evidence of previous worlds you have to understand that what you're looking at there is the debris of a former world that was pulverized by these floods carried in and deposited and now a new world has emerged out of that and on top of this wreckage this in that former world existed I believe an advanced civilization that is memorized in myths and traditions all around the world that is been ridiculed by archaeologists but it is insistent and the evidence keeps on coming forward well it all makes sense it really does it's it's all shocking and stunning and fantastic but it all makes sense I I think it does make sense and and and I think it's it's it's something it's part of the human Heritage it's something that we we all have to get to grips with again this is one of the things I find encouraging about developments in the world today is that more and more people do appear to be thinking for themselves you know there there was a a time when we we took the word of Specialists Dr X or Professor y said this it had to be true H that was so actually when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 that was the first argument was the argument from Authority the authorities say this cannot be so therefore it is not so and a lot of people just just bought that what's changed I think in the last 20 years is that that that that um subservience to Authority has gone away it hasn't gone away completely but we don't trust Authority anymore rightly and properly because we've been lied to by authority figures and we know they lied to us and we saw the evidence whether it's politicians or big corporations or you know or the big religions the there's a there's an uprising against this and an assertion of individual will and and and of individual intellect to inquire into the past and I think that that that's why this this information now has is is coming at a time where it's falling on on fertile ground there will still be a lot of resistance to it we can expect that resistance to be fierce and to go on but things are shifting in the world just as our picture of the past is Shifting so our picture of who we are and what we're meant to be doing here is Shifting as well have you guys thought about coming together and doing a documentary I'd love to do a documentary with around you guys together it's a must do I mean it's just like the book is I'm sure going to be fantastic but there's going to be people that are just not going to read a book documentaries are so easy you just do is open your stupid mouth lay down yeah you know turn on Netflix and Bam you know you can absorb it whereas it might it might happen lazy it's highly visual material and it so visual yeah that's what I'm saying it's so visual and the two of you together we need to crowdfund something can I make an appeal it's the first time I've ever done this it's a kind of little pitch it's a little pitch okay I've never asked for this before for what I'm what I'm asking to those who value and and appreciate my work and feel that I'm doing something useful in the world please support my work by getting this book because that is the best way to put one finger up to the mainstream archaeology wants this book to go away they want it to be forgotten it will never be reviewed in any mainstream newspaper it will never be written about there will be no articles about it and probably no television coverage either the only thing that can make the difference is people voting with their feet and I'm I'm asking that now people value my work people are huge huge fans of your appearances here and huge huge fans of your work and uh if this is this is the latest and greatest I'm sure people are going to go out and buy in droves so magicians of the Gods you can get it on Amazon you can get it on your website you can get it pretty much everywhere right yeah go to my website and all the all the links and the whole the whole background on the on on on the book is there I I hugely appreciate deeply appreciate the support that my readers have given me I would be nothing without my readers that's why every time I do an event I sit there for two to three hours afterwards talking to people and signing books because the readers are the most important people in my in my universe and they're they're what they're who give me strength without without my readers I'm I'm literally nothing and I I value and appreciate them and I'm on a journey across America now and I'm speaking in many many different cities and the whole program is up on my website on the talks and events page make sure we tweet that stuff and get that information out and I'll get that information out for the the entirety of the time you're here just let me know where you're going to be and I'll let everybody know will when you're going to be there since we're plugging I'd like to plug I've got this what is that well it's a uh about a 4 and a half hour presentation chop full of Graphics um video clips animations and it's all you yeah and what is it called Cosmic patterns and cycles of catastrophe and we can go go to the sacred geometry International website I think Cameron Wilshire who you know V who introduced us um has uh I think he's doing a special on it now 33% off or something so what is the actual URL of the website well it would be sacred geometry international.com there it is Jamie's pulled it up right there so Cosmic patterns and cycles of catastrophe yes 33.3 3% off what is that all about you'll have to ask Cameron about that it's some some hidden numerology in there somewhere apparently and you notice coupon code magicians ah there you go magicians of the god that's must be a reference I I think it probably corresponds um so I I really think that you guys have to do one of these things together as a documentary I mean I think it's just I think someone out there someone's listening to this probably some cooks that we don't want doing this documentary but there got to be somebody out there that's legit we just need to find them and put it together yeah I I want to pay tribute to Randall's work R Randall is really important figure in in this field and he's very he's very modest and he's been standing back and and you know he's not not been out there enough it's time that people understood the Fantastic knowledge that this man has and the the the ground experience you can't beat that well I met Randle in God it was early 2000s right I well when when was when you were at the punch line yeah in Atlanta yeah which doesn't even exist anymore close to 10 years ago I think it was a it was quite a while ago and uh we had this conversation after my show and he's we we're just sitting down he was talking to me about the hall scene and all these different impacts and I I remember walking away from we we talked for quite a while after the show but I remember going that might be the craziest [ __ ] post show conversation I've ever had cuz usually you know after a comedy show you have a conversation with people you know Hey where's a good place to eat you know do you like Atlanta you know like normal stuff and he's just flooding me with information I'm like who is this guy well I remember walking away from it going wow I had no idea that Joe Rogan really related to all this stuff you know oh I was fascinated I was surprised can I add something something there which is I'd like to say something about you Joe um it's a phenomenon I travel all around the world and I give presentations in in just countries everywhere and Everywhere I Go people come up to me and they said Joe Rogan sent us to you we know about your work because of because of Joe Rogan and I see that what you're doing is exploring many many controversial areas in your in your show you're in a position of power and your listeners just as my readers Are My Strength your listeners are are your strength they put you in a position of power but you're a person who's using that power for something really good there are so many people who are powerful in the world of the media who just waste it away on trivia and nothing you you are bringing new information to people all around the world and I can tell you cuz I meet them every time I give an event you are enormously appreciated well I appreciate them very much and I appreciate you guys and I appreciate this show because this this whole thing came about without any planning this show just sort of became itself it's almost like I was uh I was just happen to be there to germinate it or something and I just try to get out of my own way as much as possible and follow my curiosity and the beautiful thing about people like you guys is without you take away you and fingerprints of the Gods take away you and what are we looking at I mean this it's very rare when you have two human beings that without them an entire field of study would be Barren of a great deal of its information I mean you have John Anthony West and Robert shock who and you were obviously a part of all that John Anthony West who's absolutely fascinating fascinating fascinating guy and another guy WI maligned a guy who's ignored but magical Egypt is one of the greatest DVD series to this day that I've ever seen in my life and if you've got the time and the attention span to sit down and watch all of them it is amazing amazing John Anthony West is one of my favorite people on the planet absolutely brilliant researcher John more than anybody else who opened my mind to the mysteries of of ancient Egypt fantastic work and he's a world treasure he is a world treasure he's a great great great man and I think that DVD series is is just one pedal one unfolding of the great flower of information that that you guys are presenting and I think and another name I'll drop in there which is Robert Bal the originator of the oration Theory he's done so much to bring back attention to the importance of the skies in the ancient world and what it means for our understanding of our past and again his evidence also points back to this period of 12,800 years ago and while we're at it Robert shock really stuck his neck out from Boston University really one of the first mainstream Scholars that that went out on a limb and said we are absolutely looking at water erosion Robert shock is a key figure in this field he's very courageous to have to to be a mainstream academic to be a professor of geology at Boston it was John West who introduced Robert shock to the notion that the Sphinx might be much older that the weathering on it didn't fit with the with the picture of history and John took Robert shock to Egypt and Robert shock went with the data and he stuck his neck out and he's taken a lot of criticisms and attacks for it but he's a very very important player in this field well all of you guys are just massively massively important and this is such a unique and satisfying object of curiosity for for me at least when when I start thinking about these things it's almost like little things start firing off in my brain it's so it's so exciting I mean it's horrific to think about the poor people that lived back then that got hit by these massive impacts and the the the this the the after math of it all must have been insane but to think about now in 2015 the slow unveiling of all this data and information and you as you as it all gets into focus and you try to get a clearer and clearer view of what could have possibly happened in the past I find it so incredibly enriching and fascinating it's to me one of the most exciting aspects of of the there the potential of archaeology just to to be able to discover like oh that's what happened oh it's kind of aha moment suddenly the pieces fall into place and we understand what we've forgotten and again it cements that statement that you made that resonated with me that we are a civilization with amnesia yeah we knocked on the head and we lost a lot and there is that haunting sense of incompleteness within within so many of us that comes from that lost memory I feel there like any amnesiac has a sense of something Miss whole species has that I think what makes this really so potent is the fact that there are considerable implications for our own future oh absolutely I think that you know how Graham wraps up the book really is is about our future you know and and once now that we've integrated this information into our world view you know what does it imply in terms of of where we go from here because one of the things that I track and if you could shut the throw this up on the screen for just a second I'm going to speed through something really clear quick here so that you can kind of get the impression 1989 1989 let me get um let me just where giant asteroid makes close call by Earth R's fixing that let's Also let's also remind that we had a close relatively close pass with a half kilometer wide actually bit of a comet uh just over Halloween um and the interesting thing is that NASA only found that object on the 10th of October right and it okay it missed us it passed about the distance of the moon from the earth that's not that far but the thing the key thing is that they only found it a few days before it passed and and how many other objects are out there and half a kilometer wide half a kilom wide so the one that hit tonusa was 100 m tiny jestin CHR freaking me out this is a minimum a minimum of 150 to 200 times the volume of tongus and when you look at the universe and just look at our galaxy the size of our galaxy look at our solar system the size of our solar system that is literally like getting grazed by a bullet it's like getting grazed absolutely a bit of your that's a good analogy it's a really good analogy when you think about it you know you say well a half a kilometer compared to the earth that's not big but like when you know you think think of a a slug from a from a a 32 right if I threw it at you and hit you with it it wouldn't do much but if I accelerate it to 1,000 ft per second it's going to cause extreme trauma right but now we're looking at these asteroids flying in Comet debris and they're 10 times 20 times the speed of a rifle bullet when they hit our atmosphere like you know 50 60 70,000 mil per hour and the the the kinetic punch of something like that is inconceivable it's like said I mean to talk about it you'd have to take our entire nuclear arsenal of of the peak of the Cold War detonated all at once and even that would only be a fraction of the forces Unleashed now now watch this I'm going to go through this real real quick here and you'll get the idea I think um that where we're at because astronomers are looking out into our Cosmic environment and this is what they're seeing look look at this going back here most of us are listening nine objects have come close to the Earth since 1991 right current read that current asteroid estimates are too low this was October of 2000 current predictions for the number of potentially dangerous dangerous asteroids have been underestimated by at least 20% say astronomers according to re recent calculations there are between 750 and 900 asteroids circling the earth that number has changed that report from October 2000 we're now looking at the estimates are now that it's 100,000 uh potentially Earth destroying objects that are on earth Crossing orbits this is this is an estimate the problem is NASA has only identified a tiny fraction of what's out there and again I'm not saying this because I want to spread gloom and doom I'm saying this because we have the capacity to do something about it it takes good willll on the part of the human race to stop wasting money on stupid stupid Pursuits particularly Warfare and to apply that resource those resources to sweeping clean our Cosmic environment the technology already exists it's going to cause I mean you're it's going to have to be there's going to have to be a a massive shift in our attention like there has to almost be an event yes that takes place that makes people wake up right we have World asteroid day right now some prominent figures are behind it like Brian May I think he was one of the guitarists with Queen if I remember correctly there's there's a there there is publicity around soal World asteroid day but nobody's taking it seriously well we don't take anything seriously unless it smacks us like people don't quit cigarettes until they get cancer there's something about human beings that we don't consider the Poss we have this idea in our head that we're Eternal and we're going to live forever and everything's going to be fine and just I just need a new Lexus you know what I mean we have this wacky I see this watch that I out of my eye on or this laptop that I want to buy if if something happened if a a massive Collision hit China and wiped out like several million people and then caused the entire Earth to go into nuclear winter and crops died and we exper experienced Global famine then something like that then we would wake up and go all right Russia let's talk let's let's get together I'm hoping that it doesn't take anything quite that extreme if if we had a repeat of Tusa 1908 I think that would be enough to do it that would be nice but but would because there was this incident in Russia that was last year that was caught on all those dashboard cameras what's a wonderful thing about Russia is apparently there's so much like Insurance crime and so many collisions with each other that a lot of people over in Russia have dash cams okay right I was wondering why so because of those dash cams that's how we have all this footage of these these meteors that that uh blew up in the atmosphere and didn't even land but we we have some from inside schools where people were watching like this thing happen and go down and that was nothing and yeah that was a fraction of the size of the tungus yeah but nobody was killed you see if if that object had been a little bigger if it been if it's a a little or a little denser its angle of approach had been a little steeper you might have been looking at 1500 deaths rather than just 1500 injuries I think that would have been a wakeup call perhaps maybe not enough to to to reorient civilization but I guarantee you a tunguska event over a major inhabited area of the globe wiping out a million people I I can't imagine that that wouldn't have some kind of a effect on our attitude towards our and our vulnerability in the cosmos and make people think maybe there's something bigger we need to be paying attention to here rather than you know um kard realize we're not we're not invulnerable this is the illusion created by by modern technology we need to make a war on asteroids like we have a war on terror well you know Congress just passed at least that would be a useful project is is to actually do something that could benefit and serve the human race instead of multiply fear and hatred well see that's the thing these asteroids are actually extraordinary sources of resources natural resources Platinum Group metals and hydrocarbons and water and precious metals all of these things we're mining from the earth now exist in those asteroids that are threatening the planet and we're not that far away from being able to develop the Technologies and the industries to actually go in in Rendevous with an asteroid of course it's it's it's a matter of like Graham was saying I mean this last Halloween asteroid they didn't find it but a couple of weeks before it passed by the Earth so we need a lot more um capabilities of seeing what's out there yeah um and we're developing that but at a very slow pace so there are practical suggestions that come out of all of this this isn't just about the past as Randall said this is also about the future of the human race and what we do and how we how we live on this on this gorgeous planet that the Universe gave us and and how we pay back for being given that opportunity and so the the current ideas are to somehow or another nudge these asteroids out of the way there's about 10 different Technologies to do it what you don't really want to do is to blow it up with a nuclear because then you get buck shot instead of a single bullet and Buckshot can do a lot of harm as well and it may even push it into a more catastrophic orbit so you don't want to do that but what you can do for example is to change the reflectivity of one side of the asteroid or or Comet fragment uh you can alter that effectively paint it and that affects the sun's radiation upon it and that would be enough to shift it slightly out of its course a lot of there are a lot of techniques and suggestions or nudges this is you you put your finger on exactly the right word this is another of the technologies that you just nudge these things you just don't need to do much and you put them into a safe place instead of a dangerous place such a bizarre idea that there's hundreds of thousands of killers out there you just have to excuse me just move there please a little bit of this and then also we have to look out for all of them the ones that are coming from down there the ones that are coming from up here threedimensional yeah space we got to look that's what we really have to think of cuz when we look at the sky oh I hope an asteroids not coming our way well from where [ __ ] you know the this thing is crazy and is it coming from the direction of the Sun so that we can't see it except with very special ceras and that was the case with Tusa it came out of in fact if you read the eyewitness accounts they describe how it looks like it was being disgorged from the Sun or being expelled from the Sun or was like a second sun in the sky and that was because that that um summertime torid stream is coming from behind the Sun yeah and um and so yeah you can't see him if well because of the gravity of the Sun the mass of the sun doesn't that affect how we see things behind it anyway yeah it should do it it warps it warps like our vision so like something could be coming from behind the sun we would we literally would not even see it because of the mass and gravity of the sun if it was in the right area yeah yeah tusu was not seen really until it came into the atmosphere that was obviously a long time ago and there was not nearly as much observation in the skies as there are today right these are the um the steps that we we we need to take we need to grow up as a as a species we need to leave our our childhood uh behind it's interesting to speculate what would happen if we had uh impacts on the scale that happened 12,800 years ago and I'm pretty sure that it would mean if it if it were allowed to happen that it would mean the end of our civilization this this civilization would go down this is a very intensely specialized civilization I think the the just in time principle is that we have two- day or three-day food supply in our cities you interrupt that and you have a kind of Walking Dead scenario within within a week you know it's that it's that bad this this civilization is appears to be very strong but in fact it's very fragile and it could easily fall apart and so many of us in the western technological World actually have no survival skills whatsoever we don't know how to survive because we depend for our survival upon the complex network of society who would survive a cataclysm like that would be the hunter gatherers people like the hunter gatherers of the Kalahari in southern Africa or the hunter gatherers of the Amazon basin you know the meek of the world those who are not taken into account in the world at all today they're the ones equipped both with the the knowledge and the Psychological Resources to deal with a situation like that and to carry the human story forward and I just want to to make sure if I can play some part in this I just want to make sure that the descendants of those hunter gatherers 10,000 years in the future are not remembering faintly and vaguely a great Lost Civilization a magical civilization which had the ability to go to the Moon which had the the ability to one person could speak to another person on the other side of the planet magical magical powers which was destroyed because of its own arrogance and cruelty and that Lost Civilization of course would be us well it one of the things that's been disturbing me as I got older is the idea of print about uh books is sort of going away and everything is becoming digital and digital to the form that you can only read with an operating system and a computer and a CPU and all that jazz if without all that it's nothing you look at a hard drive it's just there's nothing there just electrons take away take away the the software and it'll never be read again yeah and what what evidence would there be a thousand years from now of us if something were to happen might there might be some we'd know they were computer discs but the The Descendants at that time would have no idea what they were and even if they did they'd have no way of accessing and a thousand years now they would deteriorate to nothing anyway to nothing all the plastic would be gone everything it would just be a complete a complete mess well that's why I look at um megalithic Stone architecture as being a textbook yeah that's how you might preserve things and another way you might preserve things if if you developed a mythology around this whole scenario and then you projected it onto the night sky so that Generations later they would tell these Tales based upon the the mythological figures ju deposed on the night sky and and there would be the story because it's there it's it's all the whole Mythos Western mythology has been juxtaposed onto the fixed stars and so that's one way perhaps of of preserving information um and the other way I think is is massive Stone architecture so it's clearly not an accident that the Great Pyramid encodes the dimensions of our planet yes it encodes them you you you measure the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43,200 and you get the equatorial circumference of the Earth why that number though why well that's the key thing and I'll come to that in a second if I may uh you take the height of the Great Pyramid multiply that by 43,200 and you get the polar radius of the Earth actually egyptologists know this but they say it's a complete coincidence cuz what's the significance of the number 43,200 but actually it's a highly significant number it's a number that is found embedded in mythology all around the world and it is a multiple of the number 72 it's actually 600 * 72 and 72 is the heartbeat of the processional cycle one degree of change every 72 years so what they've actually done is they've given us the dimensions of our planet on a scale defined by a motion of the planet itself and that in my view is incredibly clever way to pass information down to the Future that way they could be sure that any astronomically literate Society could work this out the information would be there so in all those Dark Ages when we had no knowledge that we even lived on a planet or what its Dimensions were those Dimensions were encoded into the enduring structure of the Great Pyramid a monument as the Arabs say that time itself would fear the the Great Pyramids themselves the Great Pyramid of Giza in particular is so spectacular that it almost it almost makes you go man there had to be something going on we must be missing part of this picture cuz you're talking about something that would be I I've heard people say we could reproduce it today of course we could of course we we can can you make a stone that's the size of one of the stones in the Great Pyramid yes well then we can make the pyramid but how long would it take how hard would it be and and where would be the will and you'd have to be perfect in order to get it to line up at the top the way it sets right now exactly you can't be off by a fraction of an inch otherwise you have a a cork screw instead of a pyramid that's the that that's that's the the whole problem no it's a it's an amazing device a multi-functional device in in my view in encoding encoding knowledge but also working on on human consciousness I I've had the privilege to be alone inside the Great Pyramid not surrounded by hundreds of others and as the silence descends this sense of intelligence seems to come out from the walls something is speaking to you there and I think that partly what it was designed to do was to affect human consciousness and in a weird way it's still doing socking people Majestic structure just being so magnificent and incredible that you just go wo but also the sensory deprivation element you know that you're you're inside the so-called King's chamber which had nothing to do with any King this amazing Granite geometrical Room 300 ft above the ground in the heart of the Great Pyramid as that silence descends you feel this Monument begin to speak to you it's almost like it's shy put 50 people in there and the dialogue goes away be in there alone listen to the silence and it starts to speak wow wow that's amazing it's just it's such a special thing that we have this this area where you can see these ancient structures and and causes your mind to wander and think about these things and these possibilities and when you add that to all the information that you guys have accumulated over the course of your study and your research it's a just an amazing amazing thing to consider I should mention another site which we've not talked about today which is Gung Padang in Indonesia uh and again I have a couple of chapters on this in the in the new book Gung Padang uh is a a man-made pyramid um and it's been found about 30 uh about 3 hours Drive West of bandong on the island of java uh and for a long time it was thought to be a relatively young megalithic site there is a megalithic site on top of what was thought to be a natural hill uh but now an amazing Indonesian geologist called Danny Hillman nataja uh has been over it with his team they've done ground penetrating radar and seismic tomography on the whole structure and they've also put drill cores down into it and they have pulled up remnants of man-made material associated with datable organic material that goes back 20,000 years it goes back right into the last ice age this is a 20,000 year old pyramid that's sitting in Indonesia and it's one of the most exciting breaking stories in archaeology and typically because the discovery work has been done by a geologist Indonesian archaeologists are wanting the whole work stopped so this is it right here uh that's not g Padang no no it says but the the the those are G Padang not so so for example third from the right third from the left I mean that one yeah that's the that's the known megalithic site on top of what is now understood to be a completely man-made pyramid with so this is accepted only by geologists not by archaeologists yeah the archaeologists say oh we know that site it's 2,500 years old there's nothing of interest there we would like the resources that are being spent on this to be spent on our projects instead and in fact they've lobbied with the Indonesian government and the excavations have been temporarily halted uh I think that it will go ahead again I think what what is the evidence that shows what's the geological evidence that shows that this is first first of all the ground penetrating radar the picture of what is inside this shows us that it is a man-made Hill not uh a natural hill secondly that it contains three large chambers within it one of them at least as large as the king's chamber in the Great Pyramid huge cavities regular in shape which have not yet been excavated um and and thirdly the the date of this site puts us back to 20,000 years right to the last glacial maximum when Indonesia didn't look at all the way it looked today Indonesia 20,000 years ago was part of a giant continent that geologists called called Sunda Sunder land the Sunda shelf uh that it wasn't a peninsula the Malaysian Peninsula and the Thousand Islands of Indonesia it was a massive land mass and that land mass was submerged predominantly between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago this site sits in an area of high land which was never submerged and it looks to me again I'm I'm speculating because the excavation has been stopped but it looks to me as does uh gockley tee like a like a time capsule something that takes us back to that that earlier period and and in fact when we're looking for A Lost Civilization I think we should be looking all over the world Plato made it clear that Atlantis wasn't just the island it was it had projected its power all around the world uh Indonesia is a very fruitful area for further investigation and I did a huge research trip in Indonesia and I saw megaliths that are just unaccounted for the archaeology has never been done there's a giant megalithic culture in that in that island and very cool some cultures on Indonesia are still making megaliths today they're they're still doing it it it continues this ancient tradition so when we're looking at this what are you guys seeing I'm seeing a hill I'm seeing a bunch of rocks yeah those that bunch of rocks is the known megalithic site which has correctly been dated to 2,500 years ago but it's when you say megalithic site like these this is a material called columa bassal which forms forms Naturally by the way into into regular patterns the Giants Causeway in Ireland is columna bassal columna bassal when it it forms naturally forms in vertical formations it's a very useful Building Material it can be broken up into blocks and when you see them laid out horizontally like this you know absolutely that human beings have been involved and that they have made this site but what's really interesting is what's underneath what we're seeing there what's been revealed by the ground penetrating radar and the drill cores that is that is really fascinating because that has not been taken into account by archaeology at all and that's where we need to do this work if we're going to recover our lost pass Indonesia is one of the places we need to be doing it so to someone like me that's looking at this I'm just seeing a bunch of stones yeah that's what you're seeing yeah so 2,500 year old site but what it appears to be the case that that site was put there because there was an ancient memory that this was a sacred site the word the name gunong Padang in the Indonesian language doesn't seem to mean very much it means Mountain field but in the sundan language which is the language that is spoken around Gung Padang what Gung Padang means is mountain of Enlightenment whoa suggestion that it's connected to an ancient system of knowledge it's one of many sites that are appearing around the world now that don't fit with the mainstream picture so this sort of parallels some of the ideas about the Old Kingdom in Egypt and the ancient structures where the new structures are built on top of them and as they dig deeper into the sand they find different construction methods that represent an older time exactly exactly this is that so this is 20,000 years old underneath this yeah that's right wow and what what can we is there any images that we could look at or is there anything that we could see other than this um I well I have a lot in the book I'm not sure that image above it that's an artist rendition what it used to look like that's that's an absolute artist rendition which I don't value it's it that almost takes the form of misinformation we need to be looking at the real thing there is a there now there that painting you have your cursor just on it just click on that that is an artist's interpretation of what gong Padang would have looked like uh in its original form before it became overgrown but that that is the mindblower then if this 20,000 years ago if this actually existed this gigantic megalithic structure that was created by human beings Advanced civilization beyond a shadow of a doubt 20,000 years ago yeah and in an area that was devastated by the global floods of 12 ,800 years ago and that became completely different from how it was be before that what was the area that had that gigantic super volcano detonation 70,000 years agoa that's another Indonesian story yeah and that is Indonesia and that that is literally where a massive amount of the population of the Earth of human beings was wiped out May the human population went down to just 2,000 individuals Jesus Christ that's like a good comedy show for me like a theater imagine that like everyone in my show has to repopulate the [ __ ] Earth sometimes our species hangs by a thread sometimes we hang by a thread that was one of those crazy that is crazy the idea that just the Earth can have a hiccup and that's not even an asteroid that's the Earth itself just spits up belching yeah belches destroys the environment to the point where it creates nuclear wind kills all the crops most of the animals die and 2,000 people scratch and Claw their way to the existence wow and only 70,000 years ago so 50,000 years before this so 50, so there's been a series of these yes there have been a series of these and and we as a species have kind of danced in and out of them and from time to time they have radically changed our story are Hubris in creating hard drives hard drives and flash drives and computers and phon phones and no one remembers anything I I've KN I maybe know four phone numbers you know yeah we don't we don't use the power of memory anymore there we don't write anything down in in anything that's going to survive any sort of a disaster yeah yeah absolutely it's it's that's where the you know systems like Freemasonry come in because here you have a body of symbolism that's been handed down at least since the Middle Ages and you have a lot of you know currently active Masons who in order to become Master Masons have to memorize a tremendous amount of information most of them don't have a clue as to what it means though even though they're told right into ritual if you want to understand this you have to understand astronomy first of all you have to understand geometry and a number of other things but um a tremendous amount of of memory work is involved and this is the ancient system the oral traditions involved memory on a massive scale being able to recite verbatim things that might take you hours to recite and we like you guys have just discussed we're losing that ability and and this is you know to me it's it's regrettable that Freemasonry has gotten such a bad rep with all of these silly conspiratorial things in the last in the age of the internet I can't tell you how many times on Facebook or the internet somebody and they express it as as an accusation yeah Graeme hanock is a Freemason well first off I'm not a Freemason I've never been a Freemason and I never will be a Freemason because I'm not a joiner I don't join clubs my my job is to write books and and if I if I join a particular Club that's going to compromise my ability to do that I have given lectures in Masonic lodges I've been invited to give lectures there and I and I'm very interested to talk to Masons but uh you know I'm not I'm not a Mason myself and it is strange that there is this idea that Freemasonry is is connected to some kind of global conspiracy I think it's much more complicated and much more interesting than that well it's a an ancient like as you said an an ancient way of sort of storing and passing down knowledge and ideas I mean I'm sure there's a bunch of wacky people that are involved in it too most of them are in for the beer frankly the beer yeah but Freemasonry is largely a male drinking CL maybe I'm in then maybe I maybe I need to find these people actually maybe that's in the UK in the US there's no drinking in The Lodges oh not in The Lodges not in the lodge itself but but afterwards there's a lot of alcohol goes down I was in I'm now I'm out yeah well yeah drinking does mess with your memory though so I see the point but there is a tremendous body of symbolism in there which I think is critical to understanding a lot of these ancient Mysteries has ancient Origins well it's one of the things that's so confusing about our money right and so conspiratorially uh constantly debated about the the origins of the symbolism on our money you know the pyramid with the eyeball on top of it and there's so many theories as to what this means and that means and oh look at the way they structured Washington DC and where the Pentagon is and where all these different buildings or all this is all Mason stuff and they want to take over the world and yeah I don't know but it's uh who knows really I think I think what's important about it is that it's a system of ideas that definitely has very ancient Origins we're seeing a modern man estation of it now but it tracks back a long way into the past and this shows that that ideas can be passed down below the radar and can survive and can continue well the the eyeball on top of the pyramid man I would love to go back to the dude who created the dollar bill and go what are you doing here yeah what the [ __ ] is that how come you just don't say $1 dollar you know and have have the dude's face and we're good right why do you have to have a pyramid with an eyeball like what does that mean and what I wonder what it meant to them what is it supposed to symbolize well I think it means the same thing that it meant to the ancient Egyptians we find the Eye of Horus or you know it's very Egyptian doesn't the Eye of Horus represent the pineal gland that's a good argument it actually looks like the the pineal gland from a side profile it looks exactly absolutely looks like it and and um we know that DMT was available in ancient Egypt the ancient Egyptian Tree of Life is ACAA neotica which is rich in DMT in its in its bark well that's also the the tree that they're considering that the modern Jerusalem Scholars have attached to Moses in the burning bush exactly the burning bush being the source of divinity the source of of God of divine knowledge God being a burning bush and that bush being the acacia tree the AAA Tree being rich in DMT I mean it only makes sense if you try to break it down and translate it if that's St if anybody who's done DMT knows what a profound and life-changing experience it can be and how there is this feeling when you do it that you are connecting to some sort of divine entity in that we have to look at this image okay got what you got Jamie put it up there well it's a typical you find this in all kinds of masonic that's spooky giv a chick a haircut well he's got Wings you see what you have here is a a a a juxtaposition of different symbols and they all have an interpretation right you see the old man father time but he holds the sickle father time also has wings how do you get wings wings well Time Flies what time flies time flies yeah dare you you notice glass you'll notice The Hourglass right okay The Hourglass by the sickle I see okay and the sickle is a symbol for the comet I'm going to go ahead and com spill some yes and I can show you how that works you know the word Comet comes from the Latin coma or k which means what long hair right long hair star R actually looks a bit like a comic well so as you're looking at the star in the sky and you see the tail they they think of that as the hair of the com yes exactly so what you have there is the long hair right there that's a a signal right there that that's a reference and I can show you a couple of other things to show father time is going bald what's all that about yeah while he's making up for for with his whiskers yeah um but you'll notice what she holds in her right hand the spring of Acacia M and what she holds and and so in in the Masonic symbolism ACAA represents um Resurrection represents restoration after in the Masonic um allegory you have the the death of the master builder and the raising of the master builder and the symbolism for this whether it ultimately I think goes back to the death and resurrection of Osiris and the death and resurrection of all of these God figures in history which could be dying and resurrecting Gods the dying and resurrecting Gods which could be taken as a metaphor really for the God standing in for the human species for human civilization and she's she's actually weeping she's holding in her left hand a a a cybor which was a symbol from Alchemy and in the Masonic sense it's in that container that she's holding that the Alchemy takes place which you might speculate is maybe the extraction of the DMT from the occas that's what I was going to say it looks almost like one of those incense holders you know you put the you get an incense cone you put it in you put the lid on that and the incense comes through that right and she's looking at a book right and then the book is sitting on a broken column the broken column uh actually that what that represents is very well depicted in this next image here which was basically the lost the destruction of the Lost Civilization and that's what she's weeping over see she's holding thecia because that's the symbol of Resurrection how civilization is then renewed Phoenix likee out of the ashes of the previous one out of drugs yeah maybe assisted maybe with some assistance little help little help yeah so so you see there and then when you go back to this see it's all there and once you begin to understand the the symbolism of this you can begin to read it just like a a book or a manuscript almost you see and there we see the 19th century depiction of you know the destruction of Civilization by by a comet yes yes and absolutely fascinating yeah yeah it's it's interesting stuff um boy there's a lot of work in that you know is this a universal description like the way or interpretation of what you're saying is this has everyone agree on this no no in fact basically most of them will look at it and really not really understand go W that's in many different cultures the comet is the long-haired star looks like some sometimes and sometimes it's the cosmic serpent sometimes it's a serpent it looks like an old dude that's creeping on a young girl who's trying to read like you know she's trying to read he's trying to give her a back massage he's trying to be he's kind of being creepy that's what it looks like dude well here we have this is a 19th century Masonic carpet now you'll notice several things on here here what do you see up on the right a comet a comet yeah yes and immediately to the left of the Comet you have a lunar Crescent and then you have the Seven Stars and what does the Seven Stars usually depict the ple yeah which are part of the Taurus constellation exactly and and if you superimpose the radiant of the torid meteor shower it almost bulls eyes right on the pleades and you find the pleades playing an important part in not only the Masonic ritual but in many tradition many many Traditions they're even clearly depicted in the Hall of bulls in Lasco in France 17,000 years ago a depiction of the constellation of Taurus with the ples clearly marked on the shoulder of the of the bull so anybody who argues that there was no ancient knowledge of the zodiacal constellations go to alasco and you'll realize there was wow and you you'll notice down here there's the ark which of course is symbolizing the great flood and you've got a lot of things going on here you've got the coffin with the acacia growing out of it which again is symbolizing this Resurrection after the death so that one plant plays an important role over and over and a very important role it's just I mean it can't be coincidental that DM in human culture has been radically underestimated and misunderstood by by our Scholars is there any depictions in the ancient world of utilization of DMT of smoking it of there's many depictions uh of of the ancient Egyptian an ancient figure holding some kind of pipe uh and now that we know that aaan eloa is a DMT Rich tree and that ancient Egyptians certainly had the chemical knowledge to extract the DMT from that bark the very word chemistry actually comes from the name of ancient Egypt which which was kemit the black land that's where we get the word chemistry from we can be pretty sure what they were smoking um there is a particular scene by the way where we see another Visionary um agent the datura plant um rays in the form of datura flowers are descending into the brow into the third eye of the initiate in in in that image the imagery is all there you just have to dig it out and and look for it and find look for it with eyes that are willing to see that's the crucial thing I've never seen the uh Egyptian hieroglyphs of them holding a pipe oh yeah there's there's many see if you can find any Jamie do you see any wow so what are we looking at here Randall OH just another um version of these old Masonic carpets but the thing that you would want to look at here what the Beehive thing in the lower leftand corner there yeah that seems to be over and over again you see over and over again yeah why a beehive is it a beehive it's a beehive yeah it is so does it is it supposed to represent like beekeeping and is a form of I will agriculture I'll fill you in on that someday bees were a symbol of royalty in ancient Egypt as well you find them all over the Temple of KHAK for example in the Masonic context has a very interesting connotation which would be probably beyond what we could get into it's another show whole another show on bees does it does it I mean what what I mean when you look at what it's one of the main concerns that we have today is that our cell phone signals and uh a lot of the pesticides that we're using are killing off bees the cell phone signals are apparently like really confusing bees and messing them up and the Wi-Fi and all the waves radio waves and different things in the atmosphere interfere with their communication but then on top of that the pesticides we're putting on crops and all these and then there's diseases that bees are getting we have a serious problem with the honeybee population I know and absolutely to have that as a big part of their culture to have bees as a big part of their culture says something yeah yeah well one you know what you're superficially told in the Masonic ritual is that bees are a symbol of industry but when you're begin going to look into it the Beehive itself is is interesting architecturally right you know because what it does it has the um maximum volume to weight ratio virtually of any structure but there's other considerations there as well which again is is another show but if you look carefully right up in here you'll notice there's a twin Comet twin stars you see the Tails and you'll notice that you you know that comets their tails are always pointing away from the Sun they're not like Trail beh like the wake of a boat they're pointing away from the Sun you see and if you look at this you see you've got the sun right here and you've got these moving away the heart is a symbol for the Earth the sword is another symbol for the comet so all of this mystery uh surrounds us and and and and all of it takes us back to a time that we've forgotten and and we need to know about that time we need to recover our memory the the the human species is in a kind of broken state right now uh psychologically you can see it in the world there's there's this miasma of hatred and fear and suspicion that are just invelop the whole world and we are being divided artificially from one another when truly we are all brothers and sisters and we need to recover that knowledge if we're to move forward to the future and on that note I also want to thank you for another thing Joe which is for smoking me up last September reintroducing marijuana in I had three years of abstinence from marijuana and that abstinence ended uh when we sat down for our last chat uh September 2014 well you seem so healthy I like I don't think pot's the problem no it's not the problem I what's happened is I've completely changed my relationship to that beautiful and magical herb it's not a dependent relationship uh anymore it's not an obsession relationship if I have it I enjoy it if I don't have it I enjoy my life anyway that's beautiful I have a friend who's a drug counselor and uh last night he was telling me a story he's also a comedian and last night he was telling me a story court court McAllan great guy and uh he was telling me a story about this kid that is uh that he's trying to help that he said I had never met a marijuana addict before and uh he met this kid and this kid was smoking just massive massive amounts of marijuana he's trying to help him in this this clinic and he realized along the way it's not has nothing to do with the marijuana like it's he's got some crazy psychological issue that's going on and the marijuana just happens to be the thing he's using to try to fill up to medicate yeah it's not that he has this physical addiction it's impossible to there is no physical addiction if the marijuana wasn't there he'd find something else yes that's what it is and then when he dug deep into it this poor kid has just a devastating childhood and there's all sorts of issues psychologically always the case with addiction it's it's the the pain in the individual that's the source of it not the substance that's well we can all we I think we can all relate to a certain amount of Madness and I know I certainly can because I think we're all capable of going down Spirals and paths and then you know that the concept of hitting rock bottom like sometimes you have to like hit something where you can't continue your momentum and you must regroup and in that regrouping you reassess or reevaluate and it's one of the reasons why I'm so addicted to sensory deprivation tanks that that's my regrouping it's an amazing place to regroup and thank you for introducing me to that as as as as well I so grateful that there's people out there that have continued that tradition of building those things from the samati tanks from the early' 60s from John Lily to today crash in the float lab and and and the zero gravity in Austin I mean they've done some amazing work and making sure these things are like up toate and the most uh most modern technology as far as fil ation systems and insulation and now they're magical I mean absolutely and you went to crash right and I had best fantastic fantastic experience there and I have to say I'm really thinking about putting one of those in my house do it everybody should if you I mean God man you know and as you say with some edibles that's the way to to to enjoy the experience to the maximum to get the maximum benefit out out of the experience it's intensely intensely psychedelic with Ed Edibles exactly I'm I'm really encouraged by what's happening in America that we are seeing the legalization of cannabis that that the American people state byst state are just putting their finger up to the federal Authority and saying we are adults we have a right to decide what we do with our own bodies and our own Consciousness and there is that air of Freedom now in in Washington state in Oregon up there in Alaska Colorado and and that's so this is part of my book tour that I'm really looking forward to when I go present an event in Seattle which I'll do in early December and in Portland Oregon and in Denver and in Boulder I'm in Denver Saturday night and I couldn't be more excited to get there I'm so pumped I can't wait to get there it's a it's a point of freedom and it's also a point of prosperity Denver has they they have exceeded their their what they had in terms of like their expectations for how much money they were going to make out of this in in terms of tax revenue it's gone through the roof is the first time ever they make more money from taxes in marijuana than alcohol which is [ __ ] crazy if you look around Colorado you see how many bars there are how many liquor stores how many restaurants they are serving booze they make more money in taxes from marijuana than they do from all that let's face it marijuana is a far superior substance to alcohol alcohol booze it's not hurting the booze business yeah violent crime is down drunk driving is to the lowest level it's been in decades I mean the whole thing is incredible it's a very positive story real estate gone up Colorado is proving to the world is that the emperor of the War on Drugs wears no clothes the War on Drugs is [ __ ] from beginning to end and it's a grotesque abuse of the right of adults to make decisions about their own bodies and their own Consciousness so right on with Colorado and the American people who are making this happen only in America could this breakthrough take place it's true that America as a state entity has been a dark force behind the War on Drugs but the American people state byst state are unraveling that horror and replacing it with something new this could never happen in Britain I mean we have counties in Britain like Yorkshire or Northumberland I can't envisage a situation ever where Yorkshire would make marijuana legal when London says no but in America you can do it and this is going to change the world it's not it's not because of marijuana itself that's not the point it's not about getting high it's about respecting the right of adults to make decisions about their own bodies their own health and their own Consciousness that is a pH fental human right and we're beginning to realize that that's exactly what's been taken away from us by the War on Drugs I think it's also about making decisions based on data and I think in a way that parallels what you guys are up to because I think people are understanding now that we we've been sold a bill of goods by these so-called experts about marijuana lies they told us so many lies nonsense and not only that the politicians have hired experts to review the data and then buried it when it didn't meet their expectations exactly well I have to confess that all all of this with me started back in the old days when I was camping in these Canyon lands in the western states and altering my Consciousness and looking at the landscape and going something is going on here there's a story here that is wanting to come out and you know you can I think that you have the we have the potential literally to almost time travel with some of these substances and peer into the past and see it in ways that we would have never seen other wise um and not literally but like get a a sense in your mind A New Perspective a fresh view you were talking about it the last time you were here that you were on acid right that what what it was acid and peyote mostly the two little bit of this little bit of that that yeah but yeah yeah spending you know a lot of time out you know hiking and camping you know from from Minnesota to the Pacific Ocean and all those Northwestern States you know I spent months out there you know just hanging in the land ape you know living in in in tents up on mountain tops and and and thinking about what was I seeing you know and um that's really where it started for me and I think that combining combining you know this immersion into the landscape you're talking about the sensory deprivation which is a way to powerfully go in at the same time you can have the the counterpart of that which is powerfully going out and seeing seeing the night sky in this altered state seeing the Landscapes around you and realizing that a hill isn't just a hill there's a story there there's there's some process that we have to come to come to to reckon with in order to understand this planet we're living I think there's there's an interesting point here which is that part of the technological world is to regard uh nature as matter as dead you know that there's just this dead the the we're the only Consciousness on the planet in the in the universe and they refuse to consider the possibility that nature may be highly conscious and highly intelligent that there may be intelligence in nature and it seems to me what the psychedelics are are Nature's Way of speaking to us when we've closed our minds and shut ourselves down when we've taken the soul out of the universe and just turned it into a huge machine the psychedelics are coming back and saying hang on you monkeys don't know everything listen to us we got something to teach and with that we just ran through three hours yeah that's it how crazy is that that's that was three hours it seems like 20 minutes it was probably more than three hours right we overtime we're over uh listen thank you so much Graham Hancock magicians of the Gods you can get it right now on Amazon what is your website again grahamhancock.com grahamhancock.com sacred geometry International sacred geometry int I believe is your Twitter handle is that what it is I think that's right um I'll check right now real quick yes sacred geometry sacred Geo sacred Geo int okay R thank you so much has got an annoying double underscore between the and the Hancock well you can find it folks if you go to my Twitter page it'll be on my Twitter page um you could find both of their uh their Twitter handles on the post that we made about this let's do this again can we do this again absolutely I'm aort let's do it again at a couple months fantastic all right ladies and gentlemen thank you very much we see you soon Joe I would like to get you out awesome