Joe Rogan Experience #2576 - Dr. Peter McCullough

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! Dr. Colin, good to see you, sir. Great to be back. You were the first guy that got me canceled, I think, about COVID. Is that true? Yeah. It's you. It's either you or Malone. One of you guys was the beginning of all the White House and CNN and everything when they all came down on me. It was your misinformation that all turned out to be true. I'm so sorry. Don't be sorry at all. It was great. It turned out well for me. But it was fascinating to watch. What has it been like for you? We haven't seen each other in five years. What has it been like? Before I came on the first time, had anybody accused you of misinformation before that? No, not really. No, I don't believe so. Had the word even come up? No, I don't mean perhaps. I doubt it, though, because we never really talked about anything serious. The COVID crisis was the first time I was ever really confronted with a very obvious psyop. It was very obvious that we were being fed some very filtered information. We were being gaslit. And there was a narrative that you were being forced to push, and I wasn't going with it. And when I experienced the pushback, like I said, from the fucking White House, like watching the White House press secretary saying that Spotify needs to do more to censor me. I mean, Spotify got calls from the president. My management got calls from the White House. It was wild. Before 2020, before the pandemic, the word misinformation never appeared in the medical literature. Really? Never. And in fact, by 2021, it's called a mesh term. Now it's an official term in the National Library of Medicine. There are scientific instruments that measure misinformation that you can actually assess someone on a COVID-19 misinformation scale. Really? So I looked into this and I said, where in the world did this come from, this word? And you can find it in the English language around 1500. And then I can tell you during Nazi Germany, it was Goebbels who has run the Office of Propaganda. Oh, my Lord, what a useful word they found it as, a propaganda word. So if someone you didn't like, you could accuse them of spreading misinformation. So as soon as you make that accusation, you achieve moral superiority that you hold information. The person you don't like is spreading misinformation. It became very powerful. Then, believe it or not, in 2018, it was word of the year in Webster's dictionary of all the words. It became such a powerful word. So it was ready to go and be weaponized in the pandemic. You and I just were on the naivete side of things. We didn't see this coming. And we went on. And before you know it, this was flying around. I never would have imagined that talking about things that are facts would become such a problem. And then there's the reality that no one ever corrected all the things that they got wrong. Whether it's Rachel Maddow or all these different people on television or even the White House itself. All these people that were saying things that turned out to absolutely be incorrect. There was never any correction. Did anybody say they're sorry? No. No, nobody ever said they were sorry. Not a single person? Not even people that I know that were wrong about it. Not even people that I know that were wrong about it that got vaccine injured. What other circumstance in human life does it greatly impact people? Large numbers of people. And in the end, no one apologizes for harm. Can you think of anything? No, not offhand. How about war? Right. Right? Oh, we went to war. No one ever says we made a mistake. No one ever said we're sorry. No one ever apologizes when it's a big time thing like war. And this pandemic, as it rolled out, in many ways, it had the characteristics of war in the sense of we were invaded by a virus and the response was to behave like we were at war. And a lot of the statutes that we relied upon, the BioShield Act and the PrEP Act, what have you, they used military terms. There were countermeasures. And the public was at risk and the government was going to step in and going to take control. But whatever happened, all of these countermeasures were immune from a liability. So as if the pandemic was a war. Now, maybe you're ready to go to war. Looking at you, Joe, you're so jacked. You could probably take on somebody. Look at me. I can't go to war. Look at me. But what happened in this pandemic, which I thought was very, very interesting, is that we were told, listen, there's a war. A virus is coming. The government is providing countermeasures. But oh, wait a minute. You doctors, you're the ones and the nurses, you're the ones that are going to have to do the fighting. The CDC doesn't treat any patients. HHS and the FDA doesn't treat any patients. You're going to have to treat the patients. So in a sense, you're a foot soldier in this war that we didn't ask for. That's where I found myself. Yeah. For the first time in your career. For the first time in my career. I said, well, what am I going to do? Well, I have to make some decisions. It's not about shooting rifles, but I have to make medical decisions. And that's what I did. And I made what I thought was the best decisions I could make. And before you knew it, as you learned, I got in deep trouble. Yeah. Is that the first time that you can recall where people were getting in trouble for correctly treating people that helped them? Because by the use of hydroxychloroquine, by the use of ivermectin, they became so controversial that doctors were getting in trouble and losing their licenses for providing patients with medication that had not just efficacy, but there was real studies that showed that especially Uttar Pradesh and India, there's studies that show that people that use these medications were more protected and were safer. All over the world, Joe. This happened all over the world instantaneously. That was the most astounding thing to me, is that, wait a minute, how can the entire world agree on something all at once? And talk about people losing their license. There were thousands of doctors in France and Australia that literally just, it was almost immediate if they had tried to help somebody with COVID. And before you know it, in early 2020, the Federal Trade Commission came out with the COVID misinformation policy. Federal Trade Commission, what do they govern? Nutraceuticals and supplements. Before you know it, a great company in Salt Lake, Clear, Nate Jones, the CEO, Nate Jones gets a lawsuit from the Federal Trade Commission saying, you're being sued, you personally, Nate Jones and the Clear Corporation for studying your products, which are nasal sprays and gargles against SARS-CoV-2. Just studying. Just studying. He was putting the results on his website. That's all Nate was doing. This went on for four years. They tried to drain him dry on legal fees. What was the charges? So if they're suing him, what are they saying that he's doing incorrectly? It's violation of their policies. In a sense, these policies were corrected, were erected. I faced the same thing with the American Bar of Internal Medicine. I had no idea a policy was coming. But as soon as this policy is violated, now there's an opportunity for the government or whatever authority is to inflict harm, a professional reprisal against him in the case of the Federal Trade Commission. Happened to Dr. Eric Naputti, who's running a company, Vitamin D. Eric had great data on Vitamin D. It turns out Vitamin D, there were seven clinical trials showing it actually helped prevent COVID-19. Those with higher Vitamin D levels, they had lesser severity of illness. All the data were positive. No safety concerns. He gets nailed by the Federal Trade Commission and it just keeps going and going. So something happened and it was even worse for our colleagues overseas. This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures' Wild Horse 9. Shortly before Chile's 1973 coup, two CIA agents played by John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell find their mission on Easter Island spiraling into a web of conspiracies, unexpected alliances and chaos. Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. This episode is brought to you by NOCO. You're miles from home. You turn the key, nothing. Dead battery. 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It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. What do you think was—how did it get uniformly adopted across the entire world? Like, what was done to get all these different countries to put all these different rules in line? All at once. You know, in my first book, I had to sit down and write a book. This—what happened was so mind-blowing. And you're actually in the book. Two of them. I'm in the book? Yeah. Oh, nice. The first one is Courage to Face COVID-19. In the title, we come up with this term called the biopharmaceutical complex. And what do we mean by that? Somehow in the world, there was a formation of very powerful entities. And we believe at the core is the World Health Organization, the World Economic Forum, the Gates Foundation, the Rockefeller Trust, the Wellcome Trust, Gavi, CEPI, Unitaid. All regulatory agencies—we have the MHRA, the EMA, SAFRA, TGA, FDA, CDC, NIH—they just became aligned. And this was building over time. You know, these meetings that happen, a lot of these players are on the world stage. And when the WHO put out a white paper in 2019, it was called a world at risk. And it had a diagram. These are all the pandemics that could happen. Sure enough, SARS-CoV-2 was one of them or the SARS pandemic. One of the four principal players at the world at risk, Anthony Fauci. Shocker. Jeremy Farrar, who was at the Wellcome Trust, who's now the lead scientist at the WHO. And I give credit to investigative author Lisa Myron in Toronto who investigated this. So listen, the world doesn't agree on anything. Can't agree on currency, can't agree on policy, can't agree on anything. How can they completely agree on this pandemic response? She believes that the communication centers, the WHO, you have about 190 countries. You have 140 national focal points, which are branches of the WHO. Ours is in Washington. It's called PAHO, Pan American Health Organization. And she believes all the commands really came out of the WHO through this complex. It's interesting. People think, well, the pharmaceutical companies drove it. Our belief is the pharmaceutical companies are just the suppliers. And the people who benefited was anybody in position for a pandemic. So it wasn't just vaccine companies, but how about companies that made testing or that made gowns and hazmat suits and rubber gloves and the companies that did home delivery? And you can get going on and on and on. So if you were positioned well, one could financially have an unparalleled. believable heyday with pandemics, and one of the groups here is CEPI, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness and Innovation. It was founded by Gates Foundation, a World Economic Forum, and a few companies. They poured money in 2017. In their business plan, it says there will be a series of pandemics, a series of them. Oh, just one after another, like a storm's coming in, and in each pandemic, there will be a single response, mass vaccination. So everything is oriented towards tamping down anything else outside of vaccination. Does vaccination in other countries have the same protection from liability that they have in the United States? I don't know. I don't know. I know. That's a problem. Well, in 1986, that's when it was memorialized as the liability protection. What product can essentially be mandated for an entire population and be free of liability? Right, and then how can you take a product that's not a vaccine and call it a vaccine, which is essentially a gene therapy? I mean, it's not a technical vaccine in terms of how we have defined vaccines in the past. The connections here are extraordinary. So let's take Moderna as an example. So Stefan Bainzel, have you had him on your show? No. You should invite him. I didn't know he existed. Who is he? He's the CEO of Moderna. He's a good looking guy from Europe who's got a really intriguing accent. He's a CEO of Moderna. Does he have horns? Well, listen to this. He's a pharmaceutical representative. Then he becomes a distribution supervisor for one of the bigger companies, and he's in Belgium. In 2007, he gets a master's degree. He's well-trained in the United States and Europe as a business executive. He gets the job as CEO of BiomeU. BiomeU is a big lab company. They're like Abbott Diagnostics or Roche. They're a big company. 2007. So he's the CEO of a lab company in France. Well, guess what? That lab company in France, guess what one of their contracts is? One of their contracts is to help the Chinese build the biosecurity annex in Wuhan, China at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. This is beyond belief. They train the Chinese staff. So Banzel is overseeing the company that's doing all this. Then in 2011, he leaves BiomeU. As a young CEO, he's already done very, very well. He joins a tiny company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Moderna. And he's on record telling his wife, listen, there's probably less than a 5% chance this will ever be successful. Well, within a few years, they've got contracts to work on messenger RNA vaccines for different viruses. This keeps going and going. 2016, he's got a patent on part of the COVID virus. By 2019, he's communicating with Ralph Baric at the North Carolina Chapel Hill saying, listen, can we actually use your viruses and challenge our vaccines? This is before the pandemic. Now we learned the NIH and Moderna, they co-owned the patent to Moderna's vaccine. Trump announces that we have a national emergency. Five days later, Banzel says, well, we have a vaccine for that. This was all happening. Nobody was watching. Do you have any suspicions that it was leaked on purpose? I think it came out by accident. So you think they were working on it, someone got sick, and it just got out? Yeah. Just bad safety protocols? There are papers now written on this, and we featured it on our substack, Focal Points. Of these biolabs, there's leaks all the time. You can barely contain these things. They're very contagious. They're working with very contagious virus, bacteria, fungi, spores, different pathogens. They depend on meticulous ventilation, sterilization. You see these pictures of people wearing these moon suits. Yeah, we actually went to the one in Galveston. My friend Duncan and I, we were filming the Joe Rogan questions everything. It was a sci-fi show that was on in 2012 or something. We went down there because we did an episode on bio-warfare. We talked to a guy from the former Soviet Union that talked about the bio-warfare program that Russia had. It was spooky. It was spooky being in that Galveston lab, and these people walking around with these moon suits on, with the vacuum hoses attached to them. It was very weird. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hook up a better speaker to your TV, and your home theater experience is immediately 10 times better. Or add a little extra treat to your dog's food. They get so happy at dinnertime. Sometimes it's worth it to go that extra step, to find people who will do that for your business. Check out ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. 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This is astounding. He's involved in this. You have Anthony Fauci leading the NIAID, the funding organization that's funding this research. Barrick is the mastermind at Chapel Hill. He knows more about coronaviruses than anybody. They get a lot of contracts to work on coronaviruses. They take the research to Wuhan. Peter Daszak is the go-between. He's getting these grants to actually help coordinate what's going on in Wuhan. So when this thing gets out of the lab, this is astounding. And the World Health Organization says, we want to investigate the origins of the virus. We're going to send a team to Wuhan. They contact Brett Giroir, a rear admiral. He went to medical school with me in Dallas. And Brett Giroir was on Trump's White House Task Force One. Brett Giroir says, great, I'll get three American scientists. We'll dispatch to Wuhan. We'll investigate. The WHO says, no, don't send us these independent people. We'll take Peter Daszak. The WHO says this. So Peter Daszak goes over to Wuhan. He goes, you know, he looks around. Boy, I can't figure out where this virus came from. But I know one thing. It didn't come from the lab. It didn't come from any of his projects. I mean, this is ridiculous. This all happened under the watch of people. I had no idea this was going on. Well, it was just bizarre that more people didn't push back against it. And, you know, credit to Jon Stewart. Did you ever see that Jon Stewart segment on Colbert? Yeah. Where he was making fun of the fact that, like, maybe it came from the Wuhan coronavirus lab. And they're like, no, a pangolin got in the cloaca. Do you know that there were 12 papers written? It looks like Fauci commissioned the first one with Jeremy Farrar, who was at the Wellcome Trust at the time, and with Peter Daszak, what have you. And the first paper was written by Christian Anderson from Scripps. And it was written in Nature. And it says, The Natural Origins of SARS-CoV-2. And says, you know, by looking at this, almost certainly it came out of Nature. In Fauci's emails and texts, they all knew it came out of the lab. That was a cover-up manuscript. And there were 12 more manuscripts published to this day that haven't been retracted that say, well, it came out of the lab. In fact, Daszak is part of a manuscript that was published in British Medical Journal that says, how dare anyone say it comes out of the lab. We stand with the Chinese who are suffering from this right now. And the National Academy of Sciences and Engineering stands with the Chinese. It's amazing. This cover-up was so big and so, you know, ironclad. These guys weren't going to give an inch. Well, it's just amazing how coordinated it was with all these different countries. So many countries instituted these draconian measures. Australia was incredible. New Zealand was incredible. It was bizarre to watch everyone in lockstep. It was really weird. And things that could not have made sense. You know, in Australia, they got to one point, there was a five-kilometer rule. Like, well, you couldn't go more than five kilometers from your house, like as if the virus obeyed those boundaries. Or do you remember all the ridiculous things? One time, Laura Ingram asked me to come on Fox. And, you know, I was always, you know, busy with patients and, you know, having to get over to the studio and have you, and I never know what they're going to show me. So he shows me this teenage girl, it's a sunny day, and she's somewhere in the Midwest, and she's running a thousand-meter race, and she's winning, but they're making all the kids wear masks. And she's trying to, you know, get enough what's called minute valation, that's the amount of air you can move at the maximum of exercise, through this mask, and she can't do it, and she collapses on the track, she destroys her shoulder, they have her parents on, they're upset. And Laura Ingram asked me, Dr. McCullough, is this reasonable? Is it reasonable to wear masks outside? I said, no, this has been studied. The virus, it diffuses into the air. You can't contract it outside. In fact, people in Singapore tried to study this. So people wearing masks outside, there was one, people were wearing masks when they were in an Olympic swimming pool, swimming, the mask is all, so the masks seem to come to symbolize a madness. Still, if you travel today, you'll still see people wearing masks. You'll see them in Austin. If you go to San Francisco, they're ubiquitous. They're all over the, it's a, I say it's like the Democrats' MAGA hat. It symbolizes that you are an avowed leftist, that you are on board with all these different things. Do you know the story about the lesbian bar in Massachusetts? No. No? Okay. This is a great story. There was a lesbian bar in Massachusetts in 2026. Recently, they're going under, all right, they tried to be communist, and they tried to have no cover charge for people that couldn't afford it. And so of course, everyone said they couldn't afford it. They tried to do this, this thing where you just pay what you can. They were trying to be communist. Didn't work. And so they talked to a financial advisor, and one of the things that they had was a mask policy. They had a strict mask policy for this bar. And they said, why don't you have one night a week, like Saturday night, where it's mask optional? And so they instituted this. And so the people that supported the bar, that were regulars of the bar, revolted, went crazy, threatened to firebomb the bar, threatened violence. It became a national news story. It's so emblematic of how insane some people got and continued to be, that it became a destination where people wanted to go visit, just to see how fucking kooky it was. So it became a tourist destination. I think it's called The Last Ditch. Is that the name of the place? Yeah, it's now closed because they're trying to find new owners. Oh, crazy. It's so sad. It went under. Massachusetts Lesbian Bar makes frantic effort to find new owners after relaxing masking policy in 2026. Now, we knew in 2020 that masks didn't work. In fact, there was one doctor, we played it on the podcast and we got in trouble for this, where there was one doctor who was explaining how a vape, like a nicotine vape, that the particles in the vapor are larger than COVID particles, than the COVID virus and oxygen. And so, which is why you can actually breathe through the fucking mask, right? Duh. And so this guy puts on these masks and he takes a hit of the vape and then blows it through the mask. And he shows you, he's like, these don't work. And, you know, we were heavily criticized for showing that video where people go like, you're showing, again, misinformation. And then the other term that I really love that they wheeled out, which was malinformation. Well, there you go. So now we got two out of the six. Do you know what malinformation is? Malinformation is information that would actually harm someone else, right? No, it's factual information that turns out to possibly cause harm. Okay. Factual information. Factual. Telling the truth. And there's disinformation, which is somewhere of like, not factual, but going to cause harm. So you have misinformation, disinformation, malformation. There's three more. Anti-science. Oh, you've had Peter Hotez on? Yes. He's made a whole lecture tour on that. He went to my alma mater here at Baylor and he said, listen, this is the rise of anti-science. Now, listen, he holds science. So if you don't agree with him, you must be anti-science. Again, that's the moral superiority. I remember Fauci actually saying that. Do you remember that statement? Science, right? So he embodied science. If you disagree with Anthony Fauci, you disagree with science. So that's number four. Number five is anti-vaxxer. So that's like saying, well, you know, I'm anti-hypertensive medication or I'm anti-lipid lowering medicine or I'm anti-penicillin. I'm anti-aspirin. Yeah. This is like ridiculous. Thanks, sir. So you're an anti-vaxxer and then the last one is Conspiracy theorist. Well, that one's a good one. That one's been around for a long time, right? So that's a solid one. That's an intelligence community. So I was yeah, I was part of a video So this gal in Australia who was a dissident she was a dissident voice Oh, she was locked up actually at one point in time. She was jailed. Yeah, she put in jail she She made a video and I'm in it and they say oh this guy is Is just spreading misinformation. He said no, they're not. He's actually we're not he's not a conspiracy theorist He's a rational theorist that we're all rational theorists. We're presented with something. That's brand new that no one can possibly know Really what's going on? And so we all construct rational theories that are discussable. They're testable So when people immediate this is a brand new virus and people immediately Grasped for something and this is I think a theme of what we've learned in the pandemic is Human beings have a terrible time with ambiguity Mmm Ambiguity. Oh, no. Yeah, it's a crisis and if it's a war if it's a virus There must be no ambiguity, right? We have to know everything right now And so I saw this in the prosecution of all these doctors. Well, they're outside the mainstream consensus It's a brand new problem consensus of what? Right. Well, especially with science the idea that science Exists with consensus is nuts like the whole idea is that you're supposed to be testing these things and it requires people questioning well, especially in the what's called the inferential area of of Reasoning this is very important. So deductive reasoning let's take that deduction is the hard physical sciences mathematics physics engineering So, you know There's laws and if the laws are true The roof will stay up above us if the laws of physics work the plane will take off today and what-have-you Those that's deduction. So deduction there must be some truth to gravity. There must be some truth to Velocity what-have-you because these these equations work we rely on them in clinical medicine. It's very different It's inference meaning we never really know the truth. We never do the human body is is Enormously complex we can't ever really know What we use inference and inference we try to inch closer and closer and closer to the truth But we never know and so because the clinical sciences are like that We always have to question what people are saying where there's always a debate How many times have you open up the paper? It says well chocolates good for you. Oh, here's another one chocolates bad for you Chocolates good for you. It goes back and coffee. It goes back for coffee is good for you coffee you know, it just keeps going it goes back and forth as we Approximate the truth, right? And so this idea that there's a brand new virus it comes out of China and Instantaneously, there's a consensus and if you're outside the consensus you are spreading misinformation There's a policy erected you're violating the policy now you're being prosecuted People found their entire professional lives destroyed over this. Well, dr Robert Malone had a great phrase, but I think he got from someone else called mass formation psychosis and That this thing happens Everyone's terrified and then they offer one solution And this one solution must be adhered to by everyone and there again can be no ambiguity, right? So that credit to Matthias Desmet. He's a He's he's a Belgium Psychologist and he's investigated this and In fact, there's this mass formation and people feel like they they actually You know become divided over something yeah, so the vaccine for sure Have you lost any friends over this? friends Yeah, not you know, no one that I miss But many have many of the listeners listening to this show will say you know what? Yes after the pandemic somehow things are reordered in my life that my friends or family I think it's a good thing I mean, I think those are the people that you really didn't want as friends in the first place You know my field in medicine we can talk about anything So if I if I you know, and doctors love to talk shop, that's all we do But sure because so interesting So we had some social gathering will be talking about back surgery or talking about a new medical advance. We come up to vaccines. I Can't talk about it, right? Why is we get the Heisman? We think what's going on Is that we have this in my second book it's become an ideology It's not it's not scientific, right? I had Aaron Siri on Vaccines we trust he's on the right path. It's on the right track religion. It's become a religion Yeah, and it turns out in our book. We went all the way back three centuries to figure out where this came from Where did this come from? How can this become religion? There's not a religion around Antibiotics or religion about surgeries or a legit religion about radiology Why is there a religion around vaccines? Well, it turns out there's mankind has always had a susceptibility to Contagious infectious diseases probably more so by the way than other mammals You know, you don't see groups of dogs getting colds and blowing snot or squirrels out there For some reason we're vulnerable So mankind has been vulnerable to infectious diseases. And so there's always been a fear. We didn't understand them But when infectious diseases blew in, oh my lord, like when the bubonic plague blew in, you know thousand years ago Watch out. There's all kinds of bad things that happen You see all different types of human behavior when there's fear like this. You don't understand it. And so When this idea that maybe we can do something to prevent these horrible contagious diseases And we had to start somewhere in our book. John Leake, who's the first author, is from Highland Park, Texas John's probably one of the world's greatest historians We looked around to see where did this idea of giving a vaccine come from? Inoculation. We had to start somewhere and we started with Cotton Mather in 1721 in Boston. Do you have any idea who he was? No. So Cotton Mather in the late 17th century. Turns out he was one of the advisors to the judges in the Salem witchcraft trials So Cotton Mather, he's a Puritan minister, but he clearly believed in witches. So Cotton Mather This is horrible and we start out in our first chapter in the book on this Cotton Mather watches his wife and several kids die of what's probably measles And he can't save them. He just he just watches them die and He's like, oh my lord He's keeping his memoirs about this and then he hears a story that a ship is coming and the men on the ship have smallpox and smallpox very different rash of the measles and So he takes up with Dr. Boylston in Boston with a new project and Boylston has this idea of called variolation Variolation is taking a little little pustule the little blister that you have with smallpox taking a blade a scalpel blade opening that little blister taking a little bit of the the fluid and then stabbing it into the next person and The idea is well just give a little bit of that fluid. They thought it was actually a poison They didn't think it was in They couldn't conceptualize of an infectious disease It was thought to be some type of poison but the idea is we'll give you a little poison and maybe if you can survive that you'll survive a big amount of it and They start up with variolation And it turns out Ben Franklin at the time who's one of the bigger intellectuals He's kind of he's kind of ridiculing them. So listen, these guys these guys are nuts You know, they're wasting people's time and proclaiming all these things and then sure enough Ben Franklin loses little Frankie Frankie dies of smallpox Ben Franklin turns around follow Cotton Mather He's on the right track Cotton Mather at one point in time declares in the public square This process that we've come up with is a gift from God That's how vaccination started it was conceptualized as a gift from God to mankind And then it just keeps going and going and going and the bold claims the bold claims You you think you think Fauci had some chutzpah? Louis Pasteur, holy smokes that guy made more claims. Well, I've got a vaccine for foul cholera I've got an anthrax vaccine. They'll say well great. Where's your notes? Does it work? I'll get back to you later on that And this this just keeps going and going so that all this hubris all this fear Money, there's always been a ton of money at this Edward Jenward Jenner picks up after Cotton Mather's in the UK He's at the right hand of the king and queen So these vaccinologists have money power the population is at fear They're providing a solution that in a sense man is outdoing God Man through vaccinology is Improving God's creation This is the ultimate hubris man outdoes God and that's how these vaccinologists present themselves where Fauci Fauci says I am science So that brings us to the coin on the front of the cover This is 2022. This is a 20 euro coin issued by the Vatican It's a boy in The classic tripartite positioning about to receive the body and blood of Jesus Christ But instead he's receiving a vaccine So the vaccine issued by the Vatican this was issued by the Vatican a coin of someone getting vaccinated. Yes This shows you this iconography. I think is confirmatory That what we're seeing is with vaccinology. There is a religious zeal There's a madness here and it's gone on for three centuries and boy it got turned on big time in the pandemic This episode is brought to you by Squarespace If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it That's right. Joe Rogan comm is powered by Squarespace It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI enhanced website builder SEO optimization tools and Seamless checkouts with mobile pay links head to Squarespace comm Rogan for a free trial and when you are ready to launch use the offer code Rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain This episode is brought to you by lifelock scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts Emails and phone calls that are designed to be more Convincing than ever one wrong click could put your personal information and your identity at risk So protect yourself with lifelock lifelock helps detect and alert you to threats And if your identity is stolen lifelock will step in to fix it guaranteed or your money back dedicated u.s. Based Identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to 3 million in coverage for eligible losses and Expenses visit lifelock comm and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code J Are e that's promo code J are e or go to lifelock comm slash J are e for 30% off Terms apply that same terminology that a gift from God that same terminology was used by Kathy Hochul the governor of New York talking about the vaccines really that was a quote by her She said these vaccines are a gift from God Same terminology. Yeah, was there any Advocacy to those original Smallpox vaccines where they would take the postul and they would give it to people. Did that work at all? We can't possibly know it Took off before, you know what? It became mandatory in a lot of places and people were put in jail if they didn't take these shots in certain places around the world Boston Toronto UK It got to such a madness and controversy That in the UK there was a city Leicester in the UK that said we're not doing this. We're not taking these vaccines This is nuts. We can't you know, they're taking fluid from other people. They're taking fluid from horses and animals You can't know what's in it. You can't know if it's sterilized there were examples of people taking the poke and then dying because maybe it was contaminated with tetanus or staph or syphilis and In Leicester, they said we're not doing it. We're gonna do the Leicester method We think how this is happening is the kids are sleeping on top of each other and in straw beds Covered in these pustules when the kids get smallpox, we're gonna separate them We're gonna separate them and see if we can't stop it from spreading around and they were right So the Leicester method basically got control of smallpox with no vaccines. It's very important What percentage of people did smallpox that got infected died? I don't know but it was high It was high because you know that once you got covered in these pustules It didn't take much for it to be super infected with staph and then once the staph took off remember back in the olden days There was a term called erysipelas. That was just a bad skin staph infection That would be fatal and all of these infectious diseases. This is really important. You've had Suzanne Humphreys on you've had Erin Siri, all of these infectious diseases came under control Before widespread vaccination. This is very important right through better nutrition Sanitation was big and personal hygiene, right? This was very big. So we don't have erysipelas outbreaks There's no vaccine for that. That's just like a staph You know, streptococcal, my family is greatly affected, I'm Irish, greatly affected by streptococcal through the Irish as they immigrated to the United States. My great-grandmother died of Bright's disease at age 32, that's post-streptococcal kidney failure. My grandfather, who I never met, he died of rheumatic heart disease, again, streptococcal. I never see patients dying of streptococcal disease now, ever, pharyngitis, chlamydial endophytis, carditis, never, because we have antibiotics and we have appropriate testing. No vaccine, this is very important. Decades ago, we had tuberculosis sanatoriums in the United States. There's no effective vaccine for TB. So if you go to the 63 schools of public health in the United States and you read through their, you know, their mission statements, they'll tell you that vaccination was one of the greatest public health achievements in the history of mankind. They almost never mentioned sanitation or improved hygiene or testing. So you think those are the primary factors? Yeah. And what about nutrition? Nutrition is a big factor, particularly when you're dealing with cities in the winter where they don't have access to fresh vegetables. For sure. They're very poorly fed. I mean, a great example is measles fatalities, and it's tightly linked to vitamin A deficiency. In fact, vitamin A is so critical that there's a vitamin A protocol. So there was a prospective double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of giving vitamin A to critical kids with measles, pneumonitis, in the New England Journal of Medicine, and it reduced mortality. It's just an example of a nutritional intervention that reduced mortality. So in the modern day, I've said, you know, there's a great hullabaloo about measles right now. I've said in the modern day we shouldn't lose anybody due to measles, no one, because we have modern nutrition, sanitation, hygiene. We can handle complications. So the measles, encephalitis, and pneumonitis are very responsive to steroids. The bronchitis, pneumonia, it's all bacterial. We handle that with antibiotics. Harren's theory was also discussing how it seems that prior measles infection protects you from some other things. You know, it may. It may. You know, natural infection and recovery always seems to be far more durable and broadly applicable. And a good paper to quote is Bianchi and colleagues, where it was a perfect time at an Italian medical school, where half the kids had kind of natural measles immunity because, you know, they grew up before there was availability of a measles vaccine, and the other kids had measles vaccine immunity. And they tested them serologically to see if they have any protection. The answer was if you had natural measles infection, 96% protection. You could get it again maybe, but boy, natural measles, you're good. Our CDC says today measles was so common that if you were born before 1957 in the United States, you're good. We just assume you're completely immune. The kids who took the measles vaccine, that would be me, I took a measles vaccine. Only 80% had any measurable protection, and I've gone through this now four times. I took a measles vaccine as a kid. When I went to medical school, I checked the blood test, no protection, take another shot. Became a resident a few years later, took another test, no protection, took another shot, MMR shot. And then a fourth one, I went through it four times, and I still don't have any protection. And in our book, we- And how is that measured? Is it by antibodies? By antibodies. It's a reasonable proxy. But in our book, we mentioned Ben Edwards, and Ben is here in Texas. Ben went to Baylor just after me, doctor. He's out in West Texas taking care of the Mennonites. Remember a couple of years ago, there was an outbreak? He's taking care of the Mennonites, and he's communicating with us. And actually, I talked to some of the Mennonites myself. Ben says, listen, I took all these measles shots. He goes, I'm not sure I have any protection. Sure enough, he sent me a picture. He's covered head to toe with measles. He's taken four measles vaccines. So the point is, the measles vaccines, while they have dropped case count, terrific, they're not perfect. And our CDC is deceptive about measles reporting. Now, this is very important. When they categorize people, they're not going out and investigating each case. They're getting feeds from state labs or even the commercial labs and other sources. And unless somebody really can somehow show their vaccine record and prove it to somebody, the CDC says they're unvaccinated or vaccine status unknown. It's a very dishonest way of epidemiologic reporting. So they say that just to downplay the possible effect. The failure of the vaccine. The failure of the vaccine. Right. It's intentional. And they do that as part of their reporting. And I've looked into it. Well, how do you determine if it's unknown? They said, well, if somehow the vaccine card isn't made apparent to us, you know, and this is through data systems and stuff, no one's going to be able to get a vaccine card through some data system. So they essentially assume someone's unvaccinated if they get measles. Correct. And one of the least scientific aspects of the COVID pandemic was if you had had COVID, they still required you to get vaccinated. Now that was interesting because in 2020, when they were doing the clinical trials, this is very important. So Moderna, Pfizer, Janssen, they said, listen, they're doing a clinical trial. Oh no, we're not going to take anybody who's already had COVID. We're not going to take anybody who has any antibodies to COVID. We're not going to take women of childbearing potential or pregnant women. No, no, no. The vaccine either is not going to work or it's not going to be safe. We just want virgin cases. Okay. Well, they do their clinical trials. December 10th, 2020, when it rolls out, they said, well, damn the torpedoes. Everybody takes it. So wait a minute, just two months ago, you excluded people with natural immunity. Now why do they suddenly need it? That's part of this madness about vaccines. And it goes even further. Now it says, listen, you can get COVID any number of times. It doesn't matter. Take more boosters, take a booster, get COVID, take another booster. And you know, I had patients in Dallas who were, you know, very much zealots over vaccines. They would go to the pharmacy and say, you know what, I'm feeling a little insecure. Can I get another shot? Can I just get an extra dose? Pharmacies would get an extra dose. Did you think that they were vaccinating the people that had prior infection because they wanted to get rid of the control group? I think there's a sense in this vaccine world, part of this vaccine ideology is, you know, man outdoes God, but the vaccines aren't perfect. It's very important. So the vaccinologists will tell you the vaccines aren't perfect. So in order for this to work, everyone must take them. Everyone, without exception, without exception, because it's for the betterment of humanity. It's for the greater good. And if some people are harmed or somebody has already had the infection and they can't possibly benefit, we don't care because this is for the greater good. And this has gone on for centuries. But that literally makes no sense. One of the things we found out very early on was that prior infection was up to seven times more effective at preventing a reinfection. So this is something that I brought up to Sanjay Gupta when he came on the podcast. Yeah. What did he say? Well, he said, you had COVID. Are you going to get vaccinated now? I said, why? I said, no, why would I? You know, that prior infection is far better to prevent another COVID outbreak. Like why? And he had no answer. It didn't make any sense. He knew it didn't make any sense, but it's a religious thing. Like he wanted me. I had another friend of mine who's a vaccine kook who, you know, he was like, now that you've had COVID, are you going to get vaccinated? I go, why would I? I go, you know, that prior infection is better at preventing getting it again. Like, I don't understand. If you get chicken pox, you don't go get a chicken pox vaccine. Right, right. It didn't make any sense, but it was this thing where you had to become a part of the team. Well, that's interesting, right? It's almost as if there was a marking there. You know, have you seen on social media where people put their Band-Aid? Oh yeah. Remember Jason Kelsey? No, Travis Kelsey, Travis. Travis puts the blue Band-Aid on. Right. He's part of the team. Well, he also got paid. But you know, this is the type of thing. There is a symbolism of being on a team. You take the vaccine, you take it for the greater good, damn the torpedoes. You know, there were three papers that I was quoting that showed if you previously had the infection, if you previously had the infection, you actually were harmed by taking those vaccines. There were more serious adverse events, things that landed you in the hospital because your body's immune system is already jazzed up. You don't need to juice it some more. So there's actually harm. That's the reason why the FDA and the company said, no, no, no. If you've previously had COVID, you shouldn't get this shot. And to just change in three months and just throw out all of that regulatory pathway except a good clinical practice, I think the worst example is pregnancy. The golden rule is we never use experimental new things on a pregnant woman. Never, never, never. In the clinical trials, there was no way that a pregnant woman was going to get one of these vaccines or even of childbearing potential. Do you know in the first week of the vaccine campaign, I'll never forget, December 10th, 2020, 3,000 American women who were pregnant, they were largely nurses, took the vaccine. No one at the vaccine center said, wait a minute, we shouldn't do this. And before you know this, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology said, you know what? Give it to them. Give it to them at any time during pregnancy without any rationale. It was complete malpractice. And what was the side effects of that? It was horrendous. Great credit to Jim Thorpe. He's on the chief medical board with me at the wellness company, obstetrician, called this out immediately and said, listen, this is madness. Tom Shumbaru at the CDC puts out a paper in the New Natural Medicine. Doing the math, it looked like the miscarriage rate in the first trimester could be as high as 84% of women losing their babies. Now, in reality, we can't really tell because they didn't have full nine months of data. A standard number is to lose a baby in the first trimester is 15% miscarriage rate. Finally, after all of this back and forth in the letters to the editor in New England Journal of Medicine, Shumbaru and the CDC said, listen, we really can't tell you the real number. But whatever it is, it isn't good. We saw rates of miscarriage, and there's now Thorpe and others have published extensively on this. Rates of miscarriage went up. Rates of stillbirth, which is losing the baby in the second trimester, that should be less than 1%. That happened to somebody at my church. This is horrible. The baby was fine. They take a shot, and all of a sudden, the baby's not moving. That's it. Then the baby has to be extracted. And then in the third trimester, what can happen is there can be premature delivery. Now the baby is premature, can have preemie neonatal ICU, all the complications of intracranial hemorrhage, premature lung disease, et cetera. It's a disaster to do something like this during pregnancy, and the rationale is these vaccines are very strong. They cause a very high fever, and when you cause a fever, that inflammation and reaction, the uterus and the baby don't like it. And fever is one of the single greatest triggers to lose the baby or have it on premature delivery. And the vaccine gives you fevers. For sure. Boy. And they weren't operating on any data when they were recommending it to pregnant women and administering it to pregnant women? None. But yet they were saying it's safe and effective for pregnant women, and they were encouraging pregnant women to take it because they said that the risk of getting COVID was far greater than the potential harm of getting vaccinated while pregnant. There was a paper by Pinellas and colleagues and also Internal Medicine. It looked at that. What happened if pregnant women contracted COVID? Turns out because they're young and healthy and robust and pregnancies in immune, you know, one of the strongest states of natural immunity, pregnant women did better than non-pregnant women. But what about fever? Pregnant women getting fever while they had COVID? They could. Again, that's a risk. That's a fair point. So COVID itself could be a risk factor for miscarriage, just like influenza or any other fever. It had to be managed. Turns out hydroxychloroquine was perfectly safe during pregnancy. There's actually been randomized trials of using that in lupus. I've used hydroxy in pregnant women. Ivermectin turned out to be safe. We had monoclonal antibodies, bamolivimab, safe during pregnancy. I'm glad you brought that up. I want to talk to you about that. Today is brought to you by the number one brand for better sex, Blue Chew. Blue Chew Gold is a four-in-one powerhouse that gets your brain and your body on the same page for sex. Two ingredients get the blood flow pumping, and two ingredients prime your brain for arousal. No overthinking, just peak performance in as little as 15 minutes. Look at the stats. Gold is three times stronger, five times faster, and eight times longer lasting than old school methods. Blue Chew Gold is the real deal. Right now, buy two months of Blue Chew Gold and get the third free with my code ROGAN. You'll also receive free overnight shipping. That's promo code ROGAN. Head over to BlueChew.com for details and important safety information. Check it out. This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. Monoclonal antibodies were very effective, but made incredibly difficult to get at one point in time. What was that about? There's a paper in Medical Economics, 2020, said Operation Warp Speed's going to deliver monoclonal antibodies. The U.S. invested in doses for every single one of us. Every single one of us. These monoclonal antibodies, I used them hundreds of times, Joe. They were safe. They were effective. They were miraculous. They really worked. They should have been in every single nursing home. They should have been in every ER, every urgent care. Anybody really sick should have gotten a monoclonal antibody. Do you know of all the patients admitted to the hospital with COVID, only 15% of them got monoclonal antibodies? Well, there was actually a policy at some hospitals where once you were admitted to the hospital, they would no longer give you monoclonal antibodies. Right. And it happened. I was advising on two patients here in Texas, just south of Dallas, husband and wife. He's a pastor. His dad's a pastor. I know him well. The husband and wife get really sick with COVID. They come to the emergency room. They give her monoclonal antibodies and say, you know, you're well enough. You go home, take care of your five kids. They look at him. He's a little heavier guy. They said, oh, you're too sick. We're admitting you. They don't give him monoclonal antibodies and he dies. It can't be any more clear. What would be the reasoning to not give him monoclonal antibodies while he's sick? That reasoning was, well, that wasn't the way it was tested in clinical trials. It was only tested in outpatients. What my viewpoint on this is that this is where clinical judgment comes in. And if I was running the show at the top, I would have made sure everyone got these monoclonal antibodies. And when my patients were anywhere close to the ER, I made sure that they got these monoclonal antibodies. I held them up in the ER. I said, listen, you're not going into the hospital until you get monoclonal antibodies. But it took that type of forceful clinical approach to make that happen. And the fact that people were denied monoclonal antibodies, which are emergency use authorized, fully FDA endorsed, expensive, Operation Warp Speed, that tells you something. That tells you something about what this pandemic was really about. Well, what I had heard was they wanted to limit the use of monoclonal antibodies because they felt that it contributed to vaccine hesitancy. And so one of the things that happened during the pandemic was when I had gone public with ... I made this video and said that I got ... what happened was I had some shows that I was doing with Dave Chappelle, and we had to cancel the shows. And I had to say in this video, hey, I think it was Nashville or New Orleans, I had to say, hey, we have to cancel the show this weekend. I had COVID. This was when CNN turned my face green on television. I'm sure you saw that, right? I had said all the different things that I took, and I said, I feel great. I'm fine, but we have to cancel the shows. We'll reschedule them. And that's when I started getting attacked. But what happened was I had gotten phone calls from everyone that I knew who knew anyone who got sick. What did you take? My aunt is sick, my uncle's sick. I sent nurses, private nurses to ... I don't even know how many people. I lost track of it. I just had an account and I paid for all of it. I just had sent nurses to people, people that I didn't even know, actors that I never even met in person. They reached out to me on Instagram. I called them. We talked. I sent a nurse to them. I paid for all of it. I don't know how much I spent. I spent a lot of money on it. I just sent ... I was like, look, I'm going to save these people's lives. And one of the things that we administered to them was monoclonal antibodies. And I did it to a lot of fucking people, man, a lot of people all over the country, comics, all these different people. You remind me of this gal I met on social media and Instagram. Her name is Nurse Michelle. You should check her out. She's middle-aged, got a bunch of kids, and she's just a good lady in rural north Georgia. She saw this happening. She said, this is so horrible. I don't care about the law. I don't care about the rules. She stocked up her minivan with every drug she could possibly get a hold of from overseas. Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, antibiotics, steroids. She reached out to me. I had published the McCullough Protocol in the American Journal of Medicine. She goes, I'll follow your protocol, Dr. McCullough. She went around Georgia just treating patients. She didn't have a medical license. She just did it. She goes, I don't care. This is about saving lives. That's what people did. And I met people in South Africa doing that, in Southeast Asia. This going back to the analogy we used, this was a war. Yeah, what I was going to get to was somewhere along this process, we couldn't get access to monoclonal antibodies anymore. I was sending all these nurses out to administer IV vitamins, a bunch of different things. And then it got really difficult to get monoclonal antibodies. And one of my friends in New York was really sick, and we had to get him monoclonal antibodies. And it was one of the last available doses of monoclonal antibodies we could get him. And we got it to him, and he got better. But it was really weird. Did you know there were six of these that were FDA emergency use authorized? And then one after another, they were taken off the market. And this was all about vaccine hesitancy. Well, they were taken off the market saying, well, the virus mutated. These probably won't work. Well, wait a minute. If the virus mutated and these probably won't work, then why are we still continuing with vaccines? The exact vaccine that was for the wild virus. So here's the point. This whole pandemic, my analysis is, this was about mass vaccination. And if you go through the warm-up exercises, so the SPARS pandemic, that was Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in 2017, where the hypothesis is the virus is going to come out of Brazil. And again, there'll be controversy over treatment, but we're going to railroad vaccines. And then event 201, which is October of 2019, New York City, again, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. There the Chinese CDC is there, George Gao. He's paired up with Avril Haines, who becomes our director of national intelligence. Now the virus, again, it's a coronavirus, but this time it's coming out of Southeast Asia, maybe the Philippines. Same story. We're going to have confusion over treatment, but the real answer is to railroad mass vaccination. So we're back to this biopharmaceutical complex, the vision of CEPI, which is one of the key players that said, listen, no treatment, no treatment. Assume the virus is unassailable. Even if you find something that works, don't use it. Let's feature vaccines. And this probably has something to do with profit and also the fact that they're immune to liability. It could be, it could be just this, this religion with vaccines, which goes back a long way. And it's a head scratcher because believe me, these monoclonal antibodies, there was Lily, Sanofi, there was a lot of money, there was thousands of dollars per dose. This was big money in many ways per unit. It was way bigger money than the vaccines and they really worked. But there was something about the narrative and what I call the false narrative. The false narrative was this virus is unassailable. Don't you dare try to treat it. And it turns out Operation Warts B gave a pretty good answer, which was the monoclonal antibodies. And, you know, for the first two years, in terms of at home, the only oral drugs we had in the first year, we used hydroxychloroquine plus the other generics, second year, ivermectin. The third year, that's when pexlovid comes in, pexlovid, which is a combination drug by Pfizer. And it's not great, but it's not bad. And, you know, the large randomized trials, there was a reduction in hospitalization and death and I had patients use it. So it was slow to work and there's some rebound and drug interactions. But even then, our government didn't feature this. This is again, this is so curious. We've got this. Why is it not featured? Why is it still vaccine? And then also, why did they feature things that turned out to be very detrimental, like remdesivir? Didn't you know nurses, what they used to call it, run death is near? The WHO, November of 2020, comes out with a statement with the European Society of Critical Care. They look at this, they say, listen, don't use remdesivir. It doesn't work and it has toxicities. This is the WHO backed by a very solid physician group. They put this out there. You know, a year and a half later in Lancet, they revisit their original recommendations. Now they've got the WHO solidarity, they have all the trials and they say, listen, we were right. Remdesivir still doesn't work. It's got kidney and liver toxicities. It should never have been used. What happens in the United States? We frontline remdesivir against the WHO. How did that happen and why? I have absolutely no idea. And when I ask my colleagues in the hospital, they give me blank stares. Because remdesivir was not formulated for COVID-19. No, it was a failed Ebola drug. And the WHO is strictly saying, do not use it. It's still on their website. And it had that side effect, a particular side effect. One of them was kidney failure that didn't exist with COVID-19 infection. No, there was a risk of acute kidney injury with severe illness, but this was additional toxicity and, you know, I had several patients get it. So I had patients, you know, getting sick, going in the hospital. I don't think I had a single, it was a five day series. I didn't have a single patient get through five days because it was so toxic to the liver. We would see the liver injury numbers skyrocket. So liver was the big one. Liver and kidney. The liver can rebound. The kidneys can't. So some people ended up on dialysis. So what I had heard was there, one of the red flags was the high instances of kidney failure. Yeah. And that this wasn't, it didn't match up with just COVID-19 infection, that it was much more rare. Is that what it was? No, it's a correct analysis. That's a correct analysis. These people were very sick, but the fact that you had health and human services go directly against the WHO and, you know, a lot of other countries didn't even use it. So who recommended Remdesivir? Well, HHS at that time was Alex Azar. That was under Trump 1.0. Then under Biden, we had Xavier Becerra and we had Robert Califf, who is the FDA chair. Why didn't they re-look at this? Why didn't they have a meeting with the WHO? None of this can be explained. Yeah, the Remdesivir one was very disturbing because a doctor that I talked to said under no circumstances allow anyone that you know to take that stuff. And I was like, well, what is it? Like it was very weird to have someone say that. And they said, I don't understand why people are prescribing this for COVID-19 infection. Not only does it not seem to be effective, but it seems to be deadly. Which is like, how is that possible that that got through? And listen, at that time, there was a critical study published in one of the best journals for pulmonary medicine called CHEST. The first author is Roster from Florida. It's called the ICON Study. And there was a group that got ivermectin in the ER and continued during the hospitalization and a group who didn't. So it's a very good, it wasn't a randomized trial, but it's very good. You know, in heat of the pandemic here in Florida, lots of senior citizens getting sick. Ivermectin has over a 50% reduction in mortality, very safe. It was, it had matched, case matched, all the, you know, all the ways they can control to make the two groups basically be comparable. Ivermectin hands down saved lives. And when that trial came in, I said, that's it. Every single person should not only be getting monoclonal antibodies, but if they get admitted to the hospital, they should be getting ivermectin. And before you knew it, we started seeing the emails come out. Don't give ivermectin. Don't treat anybody with ivermectin. And Pierre Corey, who you've had on your show, ultimately published, I think the best named book in the entire pandemic, it was called The War on Ivermectin. Our regulatory agencies launched a war on ivermectin. Matter of fact, the AMA in 2021 came out with an official policy. This is a trade group for doctors, American Medical Association. It says our objective in this campaign is to abolish the use of ivermectin. Something that has a 50% effective rate of stopping hospitalization and death. And it was the most rapid acting drug. So we saw patients, we ultimately published on this. Sabine Hazen in Malibu gets great credit. Dr. Atherios Koukoulakis down in Rio Grande was in our team. Tom Baroti, who's passed away from Australia. We had a great international team. We show that ivermectin can actually recover oxygen levels in people sick at home. People with low oxygen levels. We had patients in South Africa, United States. I had some of my patients, I had a couple that their oxygen saturations were so deeply low. We said, if we go to the hospital, they're going to put us on the ventilator. We're going to die. We're not going to come back from that. And they were right. The early ventilator mortality rates were through the roof. And so we let their oxygen saturations go down on normal oxygen saturation. Right now, you should be over 94%. The hospital started getting worried when we saw below 90% or 88%, what have you. They started putting people on the ventilator, typically in the 80s. I had these people at home, and they had home oxygen, you know, then COVID was a long illness. This was 2020, 2021, in the 70s, in the 70s. And they go to the kitchen, maybe get something to eat, then they go into the 60s. And I'd say, here are the rules. Can you manage the work of breathing? And I know you're a little breathless, but have you ever been to Pike's Peak or been, you know, you're a little breathless, but you can manage, right? So this idea of can you manage the work of breathing and can you think clearly? It's very important. So if there's mentation and you can manage the work of breathing, we can, it's called permissive hypoxemia. Turns out it was a brilliant strategy. And when we published these papers, and Atherios Gloukalakis is the first author from UT Rio Grande, we realized, oh my God, all these people who are put on the ventilator, it wasn't needed. The vast majority, we could have just allowed the oxygen saturation to go down provided we were using ivermectin in the multi-drug protocol. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles fast. 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This was about people found out that you could use ivermectin, and you know there's that famous Rolling Stone article, which I'll never forgive them from. It was so disgusting. They showed a bunch of people waiting in line at a hospital, and they said that people were waiting in line for the emergency room with gunshot wounds because so many people were overdosing with veterinary medication, ivermectin. They were calling it veterinary medication, of course. They called it horse dewormer on CNN with me. Oh my God. Do you remember that article? Yes, yes. It's a crazy article because the people that are waiting in line, they're wearing winter coats. These people are waiting in line for the flu shot. It wasn't the same. It was July in Oklahoma or August in Oklahoma. It's complete fraud. You know the FDA had out there, it's only a horse dewormer and all these things. You're not a horse. So Paul Merrick, who's one of the best critical care doctors in the world, Dr. Apter from Arizona, Mary Chaley Bowden, who you've had on the show, they sue the FDA. They sue the FDA and said, listen, you're making false claims about ivermectin. The FDA gets lawyers. They start to engage. The lawyer said, okay, we'll take down all our false information. So the FDA under Biden and Robert Califf, who is the commissioner of the FDA, had a false campaign on ivermectin to dissuade people from using it. What is the root of this? Like what is the original person that says, go out and do this? So it has to be. Joe, it was in Australia. It was in Europe. It was in India. You know, they tried it. Even in India when it was effective. Yeah, they tried it. There was a guy who came out from Emory, Indian doctor from Emory said, listen, my mom just got revived with ivermectin. That guy got squashed in two seconds. All over the world, there was some type of incredible force to squash what I think was the most valuable drug out of all the drugs in the pandemic. I think I put ivermectin number one, I put steroids number two, and down the line, we used about five or six drugs in combination. So we get to just this last hearing that Ron Johnson has. And one of the most spectacular witnesses is an attorney, Ralph Lorigo. I don't know if you saw this. So people started contacting him and saying, listen, my loved one's in the hospital. I think they could be saved with ivermectin. The doctors and hospitals are not allowing him to get ivermectin. I can't bring it into him. I wanna get a court order to get him treated. So of 62 cases where he got the court order and they actually got the ivermectin into the patient, they lived. Of the over 100 cases where they didn't get the court order or they got the court order and they still blocked the ivermectin, they all died. And what Lorigo said, listen, I'm a lawyer. This isn't a randomized trial, it's not, but these are the data. What I'm telling you is if we would have had ivermectin, monoclonal antibodies, McCullough Protocol, which involved nasal sprays, gargles, all the vitamins, secondary antibiotics, aspirin, colchicine, anti-thrombotics, McCullough Protocol, as I published it in the American Journal of Medicine, was more extensive than what people got in the hospital. I've testified under oath that 85% of these deaths could have been avoided. How is that possible in 2020, 2021, with the internet, with all the available information, with people being able to speak freely, how is it possible that they suppress this information to such an extent that they suppress doctors using this on their patients, supposedly people that had been in their care, so probably a lot of people that they knew and loved and watched die? How is this possible? Censorship made it possible. The power of YouTube censorship and Google and Twitter and all of the social media, any one of us trying to, we're making observations, we're finding things that work, and we're putting out these observations, we're crushed. And I tell you, it wasn't just social media, it was in the medical literature. So I'm thankful, I published the most widely used protocol in the world that probably saved tens of millions of lives, spared hundreds of millions of hospitalizations. The pandemic would have been a lot worse without my protocol published, American Journal of Medicine, which is right up there with the New England Journal of Medicine. But when I got these letters to the editor in, I got one from McGill, I got one from Manesh in Australia, I got one from Brazil, they said, Dr. McCullough, you can't do this. You can't treat COVID patients. You don't have enough evidence. That's what Ashish Jha told me in the US Senate, November 19, 2020. And I was there with George Freed. George Freed was with, he was with Fauci at the NIH 50 years ago. George Freed said, I'm using hydroxychloroquine and other drugs in combination. I mean, California has tons of Hispanics, they're pretty poor baseline care, and I'm saving them. He treated 6,000 patients. Mary Talia Bowden treated thousands of patients in Houston. We're reporting what's working. I was told, listen, you can't do this. You don't have enough data. We'll only have enough data for the vaccines. That's what Ashish Jha said. And you know what? The next day in the New York Times, he publishes an op-ed. Now I'm senior to him by a mile in academic medicine. He has done nothing compared to me. And you know what he publishes? That I'm a snake oil salesman. I'm a snake oil salesman of the snake. Is that guy still working? I think he's back as being a dean somewhere in the Northeast. Wow. So we saw stuff like that happen. And in the medical literature, we began to see retractions now. Wait a minute, retraction. I've been an editor of major journals for decades. I've never retracted a paper. Because the submission and peer review process is so arduous and so intensive, some papers can take years to get published. But when they're published, they're considered valid. People may not like them. They can write letters to the editor. We can debate things. But what we saw is we saw papers retracted. So any paper that actually showed that therapeutics could work was threatened, potentially could be retracted. Any paper that saw any flaw with the vaccines, ooh, watch out. And so what we'd get these notices that said, you know, we had a problem with reference 42 and 43. That's not a reason for retraction. You know, questioning administratively of reference. And yet these administrative retractions started coming in from all over. And so now the medical literature became tainted and biased. And it's biased in only one direction, and it is favoring vaccines and disfavoring everything else. There's another thing I want to talk to you about when it comes to vaccination during a pandemic. Previous literature had pointed to discouraging vaccination during a pandemic because it encouraged variants. Gert Vanderbosch, a virologist, he's actually a doctor of veterinary medicine, but he had put that statement out in a valid way that we should never vaccinate in a pandemic, never. Because when you get a viral infection, it's up there in the nose, you know, it's percolating, by the way, for about a week. You never know it's there. And then it drains back to the throat, the lymphatics. You get a sore throat. That's the first sign you think you have a virus. You've already had it up here for about seven days. It's percolating. You don't have a single viral strain. You probably have a thousand different substrains. Just the virus replicates, it makes little mistakes. You introduce a vaccine. The vaccine has antibodies. The antibodies in the nose are called IgA. There's certain cells that can recognize the virus in the nose. They're keyed in on a certain strain. Well, the virus that's there that can escape this and thrive, it's gonna thrive. That's an evolutionary principle. So, of course, in a widely prevalent respiratory viral pandemic, vaccination is the worst strategy. Especially with a leaky vaccine, a vaccine that does not prevent infection. It's not sterilizing. See, it's not sterilizing and it can't be sterilizing. If you had, because the vaccines were all coded for one part, oh, and Joe, I have to give you your virus at this stage. You're gonna give me a virus? Yeah. Oh, boy. I brought this all the way from Amazon. You're gonna give me a virus from the Amazon? Yes. Oh, amazon.com? I'm gonna give you three of them. So, here you go. So, this is the example. Yeah. So, listen, all these guys are all SARS-CoV-2, but they're a little different, okay? So, the vaccines, Pfizer, Moderna, Janssen, and Novavax, they're only directed against the spike protein, which is this little spike on the surface. It turns out there's like 30 other proteins inside the nucleocapsid. So, all the virus has to do is change its spike protein a little bit and it's free. See, it's very different than a sterilizing vaccine. A sterilizing vaccine would be comprehensive against many, many different proteins. Even if you changed it a little bit, you could, your body's immune system could wipe it out. Can you give me an example of a sterilizing vaccine? You know, there's not good examples for viral vaccines. So, for instance, influenza vaccines are not sterilizing. Pertussis vaccines are not sterilizing. It's hard to understand me. Maybe some of the bacterial vaccines, I'd have to put some, I'd probably have to consult an expert on this to tell you the truth. But the idea is for sure, going after the spike protein alone was a mistake because that's actually the most pleomorphic or mutational part of the whole virus. The envelope protein, the nucleocapsid, they don't change that much, but the virus would just say, listen, I'll just change the spike protein. And so, there were papers by Akorsi, Acherian, and others that measure the viral load in the nose and mouth of the vaccinated and unvaccinated, and they were the same. This is in 2021. So, vaccinated were going around with the virus, and they were equally as contagious. They were infecting other vaccinated people. And there was a paper from Houston Fair, and Hope said an entire vaccinated wedding, and they all got COVID, they all had taken the vaccine. So, in August of 2021, Rochelle Lewinsky comes out, and this is a press release. Said, listen, got a news release. The vaccines are not stopping transmission of the virus. She says it officially. What happens within a few months? All the employers in the Biden administration and the athletic teams say vaccine mandates. So, they mandated the vaccines after the knowledge that they don't stop transmission. The only reason to ever mandate a vaccine would be that it was gonna protect the workplace. One of the more egregious bits of propaganda was Rachel Maddow on TV saying the virus stops with you. You remember that? If you get vaccinated, the virus stops with you. You can't infect anyone else. You can't get infected. We can get out of this. The virus stops with you. What made her so confident? Well, she's a lesbian. And you're a lesbian on television, you have incredible confidence. Also, she's wearing a nice suit, she's on television. She's got the longest neck. I don't know. It's like a giraffe. She's obviously very smart. That's why she's so confident. I think. I think that. people People have a hard time with ambiguity. I don't think that I think they were giving a mandate She was I think she was told to discuss it in that manner. But listen, you never said that I never said that Well, I certainly didn't I got in trouble for not doing I know what people ask me. Listen, I'm a doctor My is this thing was rolling out. My patients were asking me. Dr. McCullough. Should I take a vaccine? My honest answer is I don't know. I don't know if they work I don't know if they're safe. So ambiguity, that's the important point. There was nobody in the public health apparatus that That could even live with ambiguity for a second Did you ever see the Facebook call with Mark Zuckerberg dealing with the entire state where he's like? There's a call where he's like warning people about this. We're saying we don't really know What's going to happen with this gene therapy? Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is like early on but can you by the way, do you remember? During Trump's administration was when all this was discussed and all of these people including Kamala Harris All these people were saying are you gonna trust a vaccine that Trump comes up with? I'm not gonna try remember that. You remember that? Yeah That switch over when Biden became president that everybody trust and then nobody called him on it. It's the exact same vaccine but yet because Trump wasn't involved anymore and it was Biden promoting it Everybody was gung-ho for the same exact medication that they wouldn't trust because Trump was a part of well Why would a medical problem get politicized it affects both Democrats and everything's politicized in this stupid country But this is the type of thing where you'd say listen, they're not going to take a vaccine under Trump it under Biden It's the same vaccine. They're gonna take it. Yeah, this is this is this madness that we saw through the pandemic But sadly people were harmed. I'm on record the US Senate saying that 85% of these deaths of Kovat deaths could have been spared with an intensive early treatment program at home continue through the hospitalization including monoclonal antibodies And I've remarked and listen when Pax Lovett came in or Molnapiravir terrific believe it or not We have a drug now that's approved for post-exposure prophylaxis and really sick patients called Zukova I can prescribe it and people can take it once they've been exposed to Kovat There's even a monoclonal antibody pair called PEM Pemgarda I can prescribe that and give it an infusion every three months if I had a really sick and frail person people who Had organ transplants and other serious diseases They were more prone to death not because of the virus But because of their frailty this is very important their frailty it turns out for the viral infection We actually gave immunosuppressants steroids or immunosuppressants. So it being immunosuppressed itself was not I mean I've had people with heart transplants who went through it. That's not the problem It's the frailty and you know the opposite when we got to people look how big and strong you are Joe You get to people there was a paper by Daniels and colleagues from the NCAA And there's two papers in college athletics Do you know by 2020 30% of all college athletes and kids had already had Kovat in 2020 by the time we get to 2022 70% had gotten Kovat and you know among all those athletes No serious cases. No hospitalizations and deaths, right? Importantly there was no data at all that showed that the vaccine stopped infection or stopped transmission So when they were saying that so confidently on television they were completely talking out of their ass Well, you knew it the the original trials remember was one month of the primary series and they kind of cheated on that so the primary series in the vaccine group you weren't considered an Infection an infection didn't count until after two shots But in the placebo It did see that was there was modified Intent to treat that was actually cheating. You should count all the infections in both groups equally There's an analysis by Michaels and colleagues that had nailed this down But in the clinical trials, there's one month of getting the shots and there's two months of observation So when Rachel Maddow says that or anybody says that at month four No one could have known the trial was only two months after the primary series. So that's an example instructed people What what was it about them It's a wishful It's I think people are wishful that they take on this this religious zeal around vaccines And I've been looking for the memos. I'm a frequent contributor on Fox. I go on all the stations I'm looking for the memo that says listen become a zealot over the vaccines I never got any memo like that and and I saw it happen worldwide by the way, so it's all over the world I think there's an infectious Contagious groupthink around mass formation psychosis and people there's um, there's a word about people Who mimic their be other people's behaviors? I just they hear something and they just kind of chime in and it's called a mimesis There was a mass mimesis and people fell into this And this is stunning that very few people Could see it now once you could see it. It seems like you could see it right away I could see it right away. Well, I couldn't see it right away. I almost got vaccinated You know the UFC allocated a bunch of vaccines for all of their employees We were doing shows during the pandemic in a place called the Apex Center The Apex Center is a very small arena that the UFC has and what they did was they had shows where they would put on fights, but they kovat tested everyone and all the staff all the corner people and all the fighters and So you would show up you I got tested before I got on a plane I Landed I went to Vegas. I got tested in Vegas and then you had to isolate and then you had to show up for the Event they told me we have the kovat vaccine. Do you want to take it? And I said sure this is early Well, the UFC was the first one organization month Yeah, I wish I could remember I don't but it was the Johnson and Johnson is what they had allocated the one shot I'm like, okay give it to me So I showed up on a Saturday and I showed up for the event and I said, hey, can you vaccinate me? I was gonna get vaccinated before the fights So I got there in the morning and I was like, can you guys vaccinate me? And they said yeah, we're gonna get the the doctor We'll call you right back. And then they said I can't talk to the doctor. He said we can't do it here Can you come to the clinic on Monday? I said I can't come on Monday I have to leave tomorrow, but I'll be back in two weeks for the next event. Can we do it? Then they said yes great during that to be two weeks two people. I knew had strokes I've been taking the shots taking the shots that you knew personally Yes one that I didn't know personally that but a good friend of mine knew and then one that I knew and And a bunch of people got really ill and it was weird and I said, hang on what's going on here? And that's when I started to get a little hesitant because one of the guys was 50 years old and very healthy and I was Like this is weird. It was weird And I just started getting a little nervous and I was never vaccine hesitant at all. In fact There's been podcasts before where I was mocking people were that were anti vaccine I thought that was ridiculous. Like I I had thought that all the science had been settled vaccines were the most important I mean I had a joke that I did in my my last comedy special before kovat I thought vaccines were the most important invention human history after vaccines or after kovat rather I was like, I don't think we went to the moon because I was like, I think there's so much horseshit There's so much lies and so much propaganda. I'm like, this is I don't believe anything anymore. Like this is crazy So I had gone through that and then I said, okay, let me figure out what's gonna happen. Then my family got sick and My wife got sick and my kids got sick and I never got it I had a couple of days where I felt a little weird in the gym So I just worked out lightly, but I work out almost every day and I have a very strict vitamin protocol and I I Take vitamins every day and I take a bunch. I take all I take vitamin D I take all right a K to bring it on three I take it all and I'm very healthy and I think it's part of that and I'm a firm believer in supplementation This is not just voodoo. It's just me talking to scientists and me talking to doctors and me talking to athletes in particular And so I was hesitant about it then and then I knew multiple people that had problems Multiple people that are real problems. One of one of my friends had to get a pacemaker. He was in his 40s. Yeah Another one that I knew started blacking out He had to get it was a friend of mine a good friend of mine's brother who was a dentist He had to get a pacemaker and he was in his 30s, okay It was it got really fucking weird and I was like what is going on here now? I had already known about certain side effects of pharmaceutical drugs that had been suppressed You know one of them was Vioxx because I knew a guy who had a stroke who was a UFC fighter who was a Real elite athlete and he had you know knee problems and arthritis and he took Vioxx had a stroke and I was like What the fuck is going on I was like something weird is happening and I knew that vaccine or excuse me pharmaceutical drug companies would put out Medications that they knew were gonna have potential deadly side effects and Vioxx wound up killing somewhere around 50,000 Americans, right? So I started getting hesitant But then when my family got it and I didn't get it and I slept with my wife I slept in the bed with her. I hugged my kids. I didn't do shit. I didn't wear a mask I'm like, I'm like, I think I'll just get it and get it over with but I didn't get it I was like, this is weird. I thought this shit was just gonna get you like a ghost It was gonna haunt you and you're if you're around people that have kovat you're fucked But no, I didn't get it at all. And the only time I got it Was a couple like a year later or two, whatever it was I was in Florida and I had done a bunch of shows I was doing arenas, right? So I was doing stand-up comedy in front of 16,000 people. Everyone's laughing, which is like the worst way, right? and my friend John my friend John Shulman who's a Guy who makes pool cues shout out to John Shulman good buddy mine He and I met up to play pool and we played pool till like 5 o'clock in the morning I had a bunch of margaritas had drinks I was exhausted at the end of it and then I started feeling terrible the next day and that's when I got kovat But it was just because I had destroyed my immune system by staying up till 5 o'clock in the morning playing pool and drinking Well, if you heard of germ versus terrain, right? so the idea is you probably had the virus many many times in your nasal pharynx and Your immune system is working working working. You just have enough of a yes a wrinkle in it Then it or you get a big enough inoculum that is you know, you get enough of it at once now interestingly I think it was my immune system being just right. You just get a little it was me getting drinking I think the drinking was the thing so This episode is sponsored by better help. 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So it's not messenger RNA So this is a replication incompetent adenovirus It gives the genetic instructions Temporarily for your body to make a massive amount of the spike protein, right massive, right? And the adenoviral vector itself is thrombogenic. And so and by the way Janssen and estrogenic are nearly the same. They were made by the same manufacturer emerging biosolutions out of Baltimore a Biodefense contractor. It's kind of interesting. Why is a biodefense contractor making a human vaccine for a pandemic? Anyhow, so you have a Z and you have why is that Janssen going none of the companies make their own products? They subcontract to well biodefense contractors boy Moderna is made by a company called resilience Anyhow, they're funded by the DOD back on the story. So the point is This one was so thrombogenic. There's a disease named after it's called VITT vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia So the platelet count goes down, massive blood clots form. Blood clots form actually in the brain, in the major sinuses in the brain. This is horrible. And when that happens, there's a 30% mortality rate. People have to have their skulls opened. There were huge blood clots forming in the legs, shooting to the lungs. It was so bad, that was AstraZeneca and Janssen. You know, we got to mid-pandemic, and court cases were coming up all over, and they both withdrew their vaccines. Pfizer and Moderna had the same blood clot problems, and they stuck with it. They should have all pulled off. And you avoided a nightmare, because that vaccine was a blood clot, you know, threat to anybody who took it. It's very important to understand that all of these vaccines have risks and benefits. The COVID vaccines, the equation is so stilted towards risk and so minimal in theoretical benefit, it became the most obvious example of something really going wrong in a biopharmaceutical equation. And when I've pushed artificial intelligence, and I've said, listen, look at the major journals, Lancet, New England Journal of Medicine, British Medical Journal, New England Journal of Medicine, I've published in all of them. And I said, find a paper where the conclusion is that the risks outweigh the benefits. You can't find one. 100%, no matter what, say that the theoretical benefits outweigh the real risks. Now you go elsewhere, you can find the papers. What does that tell you? There's editorial bias. They're not gonna allow a paper in one of these big journals that concludes this. And I can tell you with anything else in medicine, there's balance. If you take a paper on statins, there'll be papers saying, well, you know, the risks outweigh the benefits here. Back surgery, there's always a balance. When it comes to these COVID vaccines, there's no balance. It's a 100% bias. And I think it comes from the originator. So these papers come from large academic institutions. They all mandated the vaccines. All the authors took the vaccines. They pushed the vaccines on their patients. Do you think a paper's gonna come out from Harvard or Baylor or Emory or UCLA concluding that the vaccines, the risks outweigh the benefits? That paper is not even gonna be get out the door. That's terrifying if it's true. It's true. But I know it's true. Because I was a division chief. I was a program director. I was the chief academic scientific officer. I had to sign off on these papers. If I was at an institution where there was a mandate and a paper like that came, and I'm sure they're out there, there's no way they would get approved. Now, one of the things that's really disturbing is reports that people today, five years after they've been vaccinated, their body's still producing spike proteins. We published the first, Holsher and colleagues, we published this in the European Society of Medicine and Medical Archives, patient of mine. He's worked for a pharmaceutical company. He's trying to do the right thing. In 2014, before the pandemic, he has a blood clot, which people can have, and he got treated for it. So we knew clinically he was at risk for blood clots. So he takes two Pfizer's. What happens? He gets blood clots, and they shoot to his lungs with two Pfizer's, and he develops myocarditis, proven by MRI. His employer says, listen, it's time for boosters. You gotta take a booster. He takes a booster. He has even more blood clots. He said, listen, this is nuts. I'm gonna die with these things. So he sees me. We engage in research. We do blood tests, skin biopsies, everything, and we do repeated samples. We use a lab in Germany doing research. We find Pfizer intact and circulating in his blood and the spike protein for three and a half years after the shot. How in the world can the vaccine be there? There's little pieces of code for it, and it has to do with a Nobel Prize-winning advancement called pseudouridination, and what happened is in the development of messenger RNA, which is a very long development history. It goes back to the 80s. There's a paper by Lalani and colleagues that outlines this. There's people have been working on this forever because it's a wonderful way to make a peptide, by the way. Talk about making designer peptides. Messenger RNA would be a great way to make peptides because that's what it does. So you take messenger RNA, and your body is making it right now. It's reading it. It's producing proteins. You're making proteins. You and I are making proteins. We're talking to each other. That messenger RNA is single-use. Natural messenger RNA is dissolved by RNAases, ribonucleases, so it's single-use, and you make more. So when synthetic messenger RNA came along and you gave it to patients back in the 80s or 90s, the body would dissolve it. Wouldn't do much, and then the idea, and Carrico and Wiseman had this idea. There's four base pairs for RNA, adenine, guanine, thymosine, and uracil. Replace the uracil with a synthetic nucleoside analog called pseudouridine. So what happened in the Pfizer and Moderna development program, and Carrico and Wiseman had, we're gonna win the Nobel Prize for inventing this in 2022, and they got it, is they said, okay, let's replace 25% of the uracil, see if it lasts longer. Well, it lasted a little bit longer. Well, how about replace half of them? Lasted even longer. And they got down to the end. They had to make a decision, and they said, damn the torpedoes, replace all of them. And when they did that, they made a synthetic messenger RNA that appears to be nearly completely resistant to any human breakdown. It's synthetic. And so now there's a molecule in people's bodies that for some, they can't degrade it. They can't get rid of it. And one of these is my patient. Now, there's polymorphisms in our enzymatic clearance system that we're trying to get rid of. Some people have lost some function mutations in there. They're the ones who are probably accumulating messenger RNA. Other people are clearing this out just fine. But the scary proposition is there are people who have taken this vaccine, Pfizer, Moderna, it's still in their body, it's still producing spike protein, it's accumulating. And then sure enough, look what just happened to Chris Murphy. Sure enough, four years after a shot, stroke. And people are still taking this. Very few. But enough that I've seen people post about it online, like openly bragging, or at least signaling that they're following the science. The CDC quit keeping track of who actually took boosters in 2023. Why? Almost certainly because of low uptake. And so what happened is they rely on what's called NIS, the National Immunization Survey, which is a robo phone call. Talk about getting robo phone calls. It's the election day, and they were pouring in last night. So a robo call comes in and says, hey, we wanna talk to you about taking vaccines. Are you gonna take a COVID vaccine? They ask you a bunch of questions, and it's only those people who answer it. So the CDC started in 2023, said, listen, we think 15% of people are taking boosters from a robo call, not from actual data. So last year, McCullough Foundation said, listen, and this foundation, I started to do research since our organizations are not doing the research that we need. We said, listen, let's take the data from Pfizer, Moderna, the sales data, where they said they sold the vaccine units, what they charge for it, what the revenue was, what the wastage was, and we can figure out how many doses were delivered. Answer, last year, it was 8.9% of people took a booster, last year. This year, I think it's gonna be under 5%. It's still a lot. I know, but a government's contracting for billions of dollars. Right, which is horrifying. But if all the things that you're saying are true, and that the risk outweighs the reward, and that with many people, your body continues to produce spike protein years later, how in the world are they still prescribing this? I think there's some people who clear it out. Listen, my neighbor's somebody, he's taken every shot. To him, it's like an elixir. He is fine, and I have people in my family who find that. They have very high antibody levels to the spike protein, meaning the messenger RNA is chugging away at spike protein, but this is another part to the secret here. If you have the vaccine in you, and you're producing lots of spike protein, these little spikes, but the antibodies that are made to it are perfectly keyed to the spike protein, gonna neutralize it, neutralize it, neutralize it. It's a perfect system. Now, it may not prevent COVID, because a variant over here can just get around it, but you're gonna stop the vaccine spike protein being produced. If there's any wrinkle in that, and there's IgG 1 and 2 neutralize the spike protein, but IgG 3 and 4, particularly 4, do not, if there's what's called IgG subclass switching, and we get to, you know, the immune system essentially gets tired of seeing this, and get to IgG 4, then you have unopposed spike protein. Now we're in trouble, because if there's unopposed spike protein, there's a paper by Yonkers and colleagues in circulation showing that's what damages the heart. So it explains why you can have one of these athletes, and he's going along fine, took some shots several years ago, and all of a sudden, boom, a cardiac arrest. That's called COVID vaccine subclinical myocarditis, and then a cardiac arrest. We've seen this in athlete after athlete after athlete. You know, when Damar Hamlin went down for the Buffalo Bills, you know, he's playing, God bless him. But when he went down, Fox called me. Tucker was, that was back when Tucker was on Fox. And they said, listen, you're a cardiologist, can you come on? And so I watched it. In fact, I had a friend there at the game, we were texting about what was going on. I said, sure, I'll go on. And the first thing that I was asked is, what do you think caused his cardiac arrest? And I said, well, the tackle is ruled out. This is very important. When there's trauma, it's what we have what's called the mechanism of injury. The mechanism of injury is your common sense assessment of can this mechanism cause this event? So if you had a car wreck like this, and there was a broken neck, you'd say, no, the neck was not broken from the car wreck, right? The mechanism wasn't sufficient. When you have a football helmet and there's a breastplate, there's no way that can precipitate a cardiac arrest. It's never happened in the history of pro football, ever. So I knew it wasn't the tackle. He had tackled him, he got up, he was about ready to clap or adjust his helmet, and then he collapsed. That's a vaccine cardiac arrest. He had a big surge of adrenaline. He had vaccine myocarditis. That's the perfect milieu for a cardiac arrest. He got very good resuscitation. He probably aspirated some Gatorade because I was watching what was going on. So he had some of that in his lungs. Gets to the hospital, has a perfect resuscitation, perfectly normal cardiac function, no heart failure. He passed all his tests. And in fact, I was watching that. I said, you know what? If he got McCullough Protocol spike detoxification, which is my second contribution to what's going on here, and he can get rid of this spike protein, and he's critical drug treatment with a drug called Colchicine, which is very safe, but all the myocarditis patients need Colchicine. I said, I bet he can avoid getting a defibrillator. Virtually everybody has to get a defibrillator if they have a primary arrest, because this is a form of cardiac arrest that's treatable with spike detoxification, which is natokinase, bromelain, and curcumin and natural products, plus Colchicine, super important. And we wrote the Buffalo Bills doctors, wrote the Buffalo Evening News. Of course, they never write back, but I would lay odds that Damar Hamlin has gotten my protocol. He's never needed an ICD, and he's back playing. So this is very important, and I have many patients in my practice like this, they don't need ICDs. This is a very important message. If there's vaccine myocarditis and a cardiac arrest, if they're appropriately treated for the spike protein and get this out of the heart and out of the system, they can be fine. Well, we saw a lot of athletes during the pandemic drop. Yes. And it was really disturbing, particularly soccer players who have some of the best cardio you've ever seen. Soccer is all about cardio. It's all about leg strength and cardio and coordination, obviously, but they're running constantly. If you ever watch a live professional soccer match, it's extraordinary. I mean, these guys are constantly sprinting, and it wasn't a common thing to see them drop, but we saw a lot of it during the pandemic. It was a panagist, polykinesis and myself published in the European leagues, pro and semi-pro under age 35. We had all the data, 10-fold increase in 2021 when they rolled out the vaccines and they forced them to take them. 10-fold. 10-fold. And the best example is Christian Eriksson, Danish soccer player. He has a primary cardiac arrest, for sure. You know, everybody denies the vaccines or the managers. They all took the vaccines. I'm actually telling you right now, they did. And he actually gets a defibrillator. He gets a subcutaneous ICD. My fear is that he never got it appropriately treated with spike detoxification and with colchicine. And you know, about five years later, he just had a second arrest. And the defibrillator saved him. But check on your patients who needed pacemakers. I guarantee they had vaccine myopericarditis, and I have patients like this too. None of my pacemaker patients now actually need the pacemaker. So they can interrogate their pacemakers, Joe, and they can ask the question, does the body need the pacemaker now or is the body managing its own rhythm? If they're appropriately, and a wellness company, we've come up with Ultimates by Detox, which is one. If you go on Amazon, you'll find a lot of these products. But Ultimates by Detox is high dose, medicinal grade, natal kinase, bromine, and curcumin, which most people need to get out of this problem. It's vital. It's reason why we formed the wellness company in 2022 because we were fulfilling an unmet need what was the um Rate of adoption in professional sports in the united states. Was it all sports? I know the nfl my friend aaron rogers had a real issue. Obviously, you know that story. Yeah where he Was actually allergic to one of the ingredients in one of the vaccines So he had a very legitimate medical reason for not taking it sure and yet he was raked over the coals didn't they make him wear a special band and And all of this, uh, but isn't it interesting you have aaron rogers at the time Aaron was the number one quarterback in the league at that time. He was number one You had the number one tennis player novak djokovic You had kairi irving who was probably one of the top people in the nba All of them said listen my body is more important than this. I don't need this vaccine Eric clapton greatest guitar player in the world Does it you know? He took it and had a horrible reaction and was really attacked, right? They wrote a horrible la times article about what a terrible person he was because he talked about the side effects He couldn't play vaccinated. Yeah, eric told me he couldn't play for a year He had a baseline neuropathy couldn't play for a year these other superstar players aren't going to take it and yet the punishment they received For it and then sadly people did take it demar hamlin christian anderson all these athletes who had cardiac arrest Look at bronnie james who had a near miss lebron james son. You had uechuchu who played um for usc He has a usc Mandated the vaccine so 100 these guys took the vaccines usc basketball team uechuchu. He has a cardiac arrest He actually gets a defibrillator. He got a trans venous defibrillator in There's all these players out here were damaged what I hope Is I hope cam newton is right? And you know what cam said, you know cam kind of grumbled about the vaccines and atlantic wrote a horrible piece about cam You know what? Ultimately he said well, he said I Think a lot of these people got fake vaccine cards Oh, they definitely did. Yeah, I personally know people got fake vaccine cards. Yeah Because they needed to travel well think about this is a war Nobody's being honest with us governments are not being honest with us Why would people be honest with a a paper card right where somebody's scribbling writing now in europe? They actually had electronic systems in canada But united states it was a lousy paper card half my patients can't even find their cards for crying out loud What is this supplement? This is um wellness company ultimate spike detox. This is high dose natokines bromelain and curcumin plus minor ingredients It's natural And this is what we use joe to clear the spike protein out of the body It has very very good supportive data natokines gets inside and outside of cells. I take that I take it myself It dissolves the spike protein Um, it's antithrombotic. It helps fight blood clots And it is our lead Product and we intentionally didn't patent this now. It's it's copyrighted in my name so people can locate it But we intentionally didn't patent it because the whole world needs this stuff And if you would go to amazon right now and type in spike detox, you'd see about three dozen rows of products All different companies wellness companies the lead we've done this is 2022 But the point is if people get on the right detoxification protocol Spike detox is huge. Another thing you do a lot of That really helps is sweating If you sweat, do you know the messenger rna pfizer's been shown in breast milk breast milk is modified It's what it's modified sweat Uh in my patient, uh, we did skin wipes. So kids are getting vaccinated through their mother's milk essentially. Yes Oh god, and the spike protein and the end of vaccine has been found in the placenta But joe the body can heal And get rid of this. I want to be very hopeful to people on this. They have to stop taking more shots. Most people have Get on spike detoxification and find whatever protocol. This is a blood thinner. It's very important This is a minor blood thinner. So people on blood thinners. I use this in conjunction with blood thinners But i'm a doctor and I you know oversee this But you know, we have four U.s. Senators now with premature Stroke, which is a blood clot nick holstetter. Yeah, nick holscher at mccall's He um posted something today that five percent of Democratic senators or congresspeople nine percent nine percent nine percent. It's four out of 45. It's 8.9 So nick and I were on newsmax last night explain what they got. Okay, so nine percent. Okay, so it's four out of 45 Democratic senators right now have had a stroke before age 65 So these people are younger than me joe and they've had a stroke. So we just had how unusual is that? It should be way way that less than one percent of the population ever has this happen And they publicly take vaccines So chris murphy Right. Listen, I took the vaccine. So we have chris murphy chris van holland Ben ben ray lujan and we had um, john fetterman now fetterman had atrial fibrillation Back in 2017, which is a risk factor for stroke and blood clots not on blood thinners I may have gone into heart failure leg swelling and problems. He publicly takes the shots in 2020 2021 2022 In the milieu of atrial fibrillation not on blood thinners. He has a stroke now. He has trouble speaking Now last night I told Rob finnerty on newsmax. I said listen, I think murphy's going to be fine. I usually have good judgment on this Uh, it's probably an internal capsule stroke, which is a little strategic place in the brain that that can be dissolved and he'll come back fine My mom had an internal capsule stroke Um, the one thing i've done is i've not been wrong and i've been on the i've been on um Prime time news now probably hundreds of times over the last five years I'm, not wrong when debar hamlin had a cardiac arrest I said listen, he's going to come back. He's going to walk out of the house. He'll be just fine You know mark siegel who's on fox mark says. Oh, we need to raise money for his family. He's a goner. He'll never survive It's like you know We need to have doctors who are right And can give accurate information to the public and if we ever have another pandemic I gotta tell you right now I think I don't think people are going to trust the government They're going to be going directly to people who have been right all along. I think you're right Another thing I want to talk to you about cancer How many people who took these vaccines have aggressive cancer? And ironically including the former ceo of youtube who actively suppressed all the information about Anything that had anything that was remotely critical about the vaccines shiga cancer like super aggressive cancer and died As a doctor If you were to tell me there's a product a biopharmaceutical product Biopharmaceutical product That would cause heart damage and myocarditis And cardiac arrest and heart failure and blood clots The spike protein is directly in the blood clots And it would cause autoimmune problems Because the body attacks itself because the spike protein is on the cell surfaces And it causes neurologic problems like transverse myelitis and guillain-barre syndrome of which all those four disease categories For sure the vaccines do if you were to say listen, dr. McCullough just for kickers It causes cancer. I'd say come on How can one product do all this? This is a mind-blowing reality so a paper that caught my attention was by um was by uh, uh Bustos And it was published in curious journal biomedical sciences and it's titled the multi-hit hypothesis Of covid19 oncogenesis, that is how the vaccines can actually promote cancer and it showed a variety of mechanisms and Sutherland and Baylor 1984 said listen if something's going to cause cancer It's not by a single mechanism. It has to be by multiple Mechanisms meaning multiple things. So a good point is smoking causing lung cancer Smoking causing lung cancer It's because there's 2000 components to tar There's too many things together that can cause cancer so It makes sense that geez the covid vaccines. How could this happen? Well, the messenger rna can impair dna repair because it gets in it kind of screws up the genetics the um spike protein Can interfere and does interfere with two major suppressor systems that actually help defend against cancer p53 and brca that we have a situation where Now a paper by cantos r o n. Hulsher has shown there's probably about three dozen mechanisms By which the scale has been tilted towards cancer thou this year a paper by um Uh aldari who's at brown? Wafiq aldari very well respected oncologist Has analyzed this there are 66 peer-reviewed papers showing both the infection and the covid vaccines Probably tilt the human equation towards cancer the vaccines far more but just the infection alone i'm greatly concerned 2025 joe time magazine On its cover has all these young people and says where's all this cancer coming from? Wait and and katie korik is out there on power podcast. Where's all this cancer coming from? They go out to cancer centers all over the united states time magazine said what do you think's going on cancer in certain areas? Not all cancers, but some cancers are really skyrocketing And the doctors say well, they look around well, maybe it's cell phones. Maybe it's microplastics Maybe it's something in the air Maybe it's None of them considered the fact that we just went through a worldwide pandemic with a virus That was synthesized in a chinese biosecurity lab and that two-thirds of the world had taken genetic vaccines not a single person They interviewed Thought of that. No, I guarantee they thought of they just didn't want to say it. This is it's it's still a verse to slowing Reality, did you see the the irish runner? Uh, mcgeean who just died? Yes. Oh my lord now Okay 2024 She wins a world championship in the thousand meters You know what it takes to as a woman to win a thought she has to be perfectly healthy in 2024 Here we are 2026 You know three quarters away through the year and she's dead of colon cancer aggressive unheard of joe biden Sitting president of the united states now. Listen his doctor is o'connor And I can tell i'm in practice I see patients every day i'm an internist cardiologist I examine Man, I examine their genitalia prostate exam. I order the test I don't have a single patient in my practice in that tenure that has developed widespread metastatic Gleason grade 9 prostate cancer. So here joe biden is in the white house and it happens under the watch of everybody right there He's publicly taken six vaccines I think joe biden has covid vaccine turbo cancer He's a classic example and on top of that. I think joe biden has A neurologic syndrome that looks like a vaccine syndrome. I mentioned he's also had strokes He's had subarachnoid hemorrhage. He's had craniotomies. He's had so he's been kind of set up But a paper by ota and colleagues from japan showed the messenger rna is in the brain It's physically in the blood vessels in the brain and in my practice joe, which is I see You know hundreds if not thousands of patients who have problems after the vaccines when they develop a syndrome. It's not classic so when it's a Neurodegenerative disorder it's not classic alzheimer's and it's not classic parkinson's but a blend And that's what biden has so he he shuffles his gait. He's kind of looking forward He looks like he's going to fall forward, but he doesn't have other features of it. It's not classic and there's a paper by roe and colleagues from korea eight million koreans They showed that these neurologic disorders when they take off after the shots they skyrocket within a few months Not everybody gets them but many of your listeners will will tell us that yeah, my loved one took a shot and they developed rapid dementia or rapid parkinson's or lewy body dementia and And and sadly a lot of these are fatal I don't think joe biden has long to live Well, he's old. Anyway, I mean There's that. Yeah, it's obviously not healthy um This episode is brought to you by ship station black friday is madness if you're shopping But if you're the person trying to get all those orders out the door, that's a whole different kind of crazy That's where ship station comes in. 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That's why armra colostrum caught my attention It's something the body already recognizes and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff Immunity metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off. Go to armra.com slash Rogan. I want to talk to you about SV40 and the instances of SV40 being found in samples of the vaccine. Multiple labs. Now, semivirus 40, this is, and it's used to, by the way, to make vaccines. The virus isn't used to make vaccines. Semivirus 40 is used to make vaccines. Yeah. This is kind of how it works. It's the culture. It's like- I know, but you want to, okay. One wants to make a ton of messenger RNA. So this is how you do it. You take a DNA in plasma. You take a DNA, a circular piece of DNA in E. coli. And remember, the RNA is going to anneal to the DNA and be the complete reverse pattern of this. So if you take the DNA code for the spike protein and insert a promoter, SV40 promoter, SV40 enhancer, what's called the origin of insertion, and then antibiotic resistant genes, so that E. coli that actually has the goods can survive. And you treat the rest of the E. coli with antibiotics and kill them off. Now you've got a purified E. coli colony that can crank massive amounts of DNA that code for the Pfizer, Moderna messenger RNA. And that's how you can make it in high quantities. That's called process one. Process two, they were making it from scratch during the clinical trials. When they got to mass production, they said, listen, we got to put this into E. coli. That's very important, right? Because they made it very differently during the clinical trials than they did during mass production. And during mass production, so the simian virus 40 comes from primate kidney cells? Right. And it's an oncogene activator. It's basically a cancer sequence. But one is going to make this crank. And it was used actually, the polio vaccine got contaminated with SV40 back, actually in the time as a kid that I probably received one of these shots as a kid, where this became a big deal with the polio vaccines that were using SV40. The Institute of Medicine was called in, they did a big review. They said, listen, you got to clean up the process, get SV40 out of polio vaccine manufacturing. They did. But the Institute of Medicine said, listen, we can't know how many cancers, like in Dr. McCullough, later on are going to be attributable to these shots. That was their final report. They said, we don't know. Is there an increase in cancer post polio vaccine? We don't know. We don't know. There's a great concern since, you know, a decent segment of the population received SV40 in these vaccines. Now, hopefully it was low enough dose and the body has hopefully edited this out. But with the COVID shots, when SV40 in multiple labs, David Speaker in Canada, and Kevin McKernan in the United States, and Schoenberg in Europe, multiple labs have said, listen, Pfizer, Moderna has SV40 in it. For sure. For sure. This was presented to Health Canada. Joe Ledapo, the Surgeon General for Florida, wrote this up and presented it to our CDC and FDA, regulatory authorities all over the world. No, we don't have any concerns about this. No investigations, no inspections. Think about this. Not a single country has, as a government agency, opened up the vials and inspected them for SV40. That's crazy. That is absolutely insane. It's formally been brought to their attention. We're concerned that SV40 is one of these multi-hit mechanisms that has been summarized by Cantazaro, summarized by Anguus and Bustos. I'm concerned. Listen, I've got family members who have taken this. So you've laid out all these different factors, including SV40, and you think that is what should have been on the cover of Time magazine when they were talking about all these people getting cancer. Correct. It should have been. Listen, we went through a pandemic. We were all exposed to this spike protein. By the way, how many of your friends never got COVID ever? Do you know anybody? Yeah, I know one lady. Okay, you know one. No, I know two. I know a guy who never got it. So you know two out of 2,000? Yeah, and they weren't vaccinated either. In my practice, I know one or two. But I've pushed artificial intelligence on this. I said, listen, go to the county databases, go to the serology database, go, go. Tell me how many people got COVID in the world? You know what the answer is? 97%. So we almost all got it. We got exposed to this stuff. Yeah. And it was the spike protein is devised in a Chinese biosecurity lab. We all got exposed to this. A couple important inferences. Can you imagine way back when in the Trump administration if we had good forecasting and we said, listen, everybody, we're all getting it? This thing's so damn contagious. We're all going to get it. So the goal is to just get through it. If we can avoid hospitalization and death, we win. Let's call in McCullough, Corey, Zelenko, Bowdoin. Let's call in everybody and let's just treat people and get them through this. This will be over within two years. Spanish flu was over within two years. It was done. If we would have accurately forecasted this, that everyone's going to get it, we never would have wore masks. Remember, masking is to try to prevent getting it. Remember lockdowns? That's to try to prevent getting it. Hand sanitizers. All of this stuff was under the false narrative that you can avoid getting it. And again, Ashish Jha, Fauci, nobody's come back and said, you know what? We are wrong, by the way. All that contagion control was a waste of time. We blew trillions of dollars trying not to get COVID and we all got it anyway. It's a mind blowing reality. Well, hindsight is 2020 though, right? It's true. And there was also this very distorted perception of what the dangers of the virus were going to be. I mean, it was listed by some people as high as 10% mortality. It got crazy. It took a while to shake out. Initially, I remember a very frightening call. We had the National Institutes of Health and I was on one of the oversight panels for NIH for years, where initially it was like, oh my Lord. We had a report in from Italy where doctors were dying of it. Nurses were dying of it. I came home when I told my wife, I said, listen, this could really be it. I mean, it was frightening until we sorted through it. We also had a precedent that threw us off and that was SARS-1. Remember the first SARS virus? It didn't spread all over the world. It lasted about 90 days and all this masking and locking down and contagion control kind of contained it. It was kind of contained. Remember for other viral outbreaks like Ebola, some of the real fatal ones- Isn't there an Ebola outbreak currently? There is, Democratic Republic of Congo. I think 5,000 people have died, 10,000 got it. Right. But the principle is it's containable. It almost certainly won't be a worldwide thing. Why is that? Because the fact that it's so fatal and it's a contact virus, so just simply hand hygiene, keep people separate. 99% of people get Ebola, can't wash their hands if they use the toilet. It's spread from fecal-oral stuff. And so far, virtually everybody in that outbreak who gets to the hospital is saved. So you can save people with Ebola. They just need IV fluids and support. So the point is viral outbreaks can be contained and people can avoid getting it. That was the first operating principle in 2020. And then when this thing broke loose, it became more obvious over time we were all going to get it. But I think the last time you and I met, it's very interesting. I was telling you how good natural immunity was and I was citing the data. I'm probably the only person who comes on your show. I actually cite the papers with first author. I'm nailing it down, Cowan, colleagues, all the other papers that showed you couldn't get it twice. You and I met two days later on the border of Rwanda, a vaccinated traveler gets COVID for the second time. It was two days after you and I met that it became known with the Omicron variant, you could get COVID twice. You could genuinely get it twice. Before that, natural immunity held up for two years. Now you can get it over and over again. I got it a second time. Well, when I got it a second time, I literally had sniffles. That was it. I had a nurse that was testing everyone before the shows. So we would do a test, not a PCR test, by the way, which is important. We should talk about that as well. So we did a test before the show and I was joking around because I had a little bit of a sniffle. I had just gotten back from the gym and I said, hopefully I don't have COVID, just joking. And she's like, oh my God, you tested positive. I'm like, no way. This is COVID? This is crazy. Got some IV vitamins, went home, took the podcast day off, got tested the next day. I was negative. So I think it was on a Monday, so I might've had it on the weekend or something. I don't remember. I don't remember the details. But it shows you how robust natural immunity is, right? Yes. It was very quick. And by the way, I didn't feel bad at all. I literally just had sniffles and I was laughing. Like, this is COVID. This is the second infection of COVID. Okay. I guess I have it. Well, natural immunity is cellular. It's antibody. It's IgG, IgA, natural killer cells. Natural immunity is robust. And if you'd have your druthers on anything, you'd rather have natural immunity. Of course. It's true for measles. It's true for- Well, with COVID, it was seven times more effective, right? So the PCR test. I'm sure you've seen the video of Carey Mullis criticizing Fauci, saying he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, and that he's a bureaucrat and has no business telling people. And this was a long time ago. This was before COVID. He died before COVID. But the false positives were through the roof, especially early on, because they were running so many cycles of the PCR. How much of that contributed, do you think, to the hysteria? Oh, tons. Here we are. Podcaster knows as much as a laboratory physician. I mean, everyone knows about the PCR test, even kids, junior high kids and high school kids, polymerase chain reaction. So it turns out that any one of the genetic sequence for any one of these 30 proteins in this little ball, the genetic sequence is known. So if one can identify a few little base pairs of a genetic sequence that's exposed, that one can create what's called a primer. So the PCR test used four primers, spike protein, envelope protein, nucleocapsid protein, and what's called origin resertion protein, or a sequence. So these are not proteins, but these are sequences, RNA sequences. So four primers, and you float it out there and say, listen, see if these things, let's cycle it once, see if anything comes up, cycle it again, cycle it again. And if you were to cycle it and it turns positive on the second cycle, you probably got a real thing. And then four cycles, what have you. And the CDC was looking at this and said, listen, no matter whatever you do, lab companies, don't go past 25 cycles. Because if you do, this is CDC said this in their guidance, they said you're going to generate a lot of false positives. People are picking up little surfaces of an orange or off a table, because you can just ultimately get false positives. So what did the companies do? They took it all the way up to like 45 cycles plus. So the vast majority of the PCR positive tests were false positive. And the best data come from the employee screening studies. So a good one to quote is in Japan Olympics. So if you screen everybody who's completely asymptomatic, you know, every day, or every week, about 1% of people over time will generate positive, which is probably what you found on your show. 1% would be positive. Of those who are positive, 80% are false positive. So what I've said is, listen, because it can be a potentially fatal illness, and it has consequences with employment and have you. Once we got to PCR testing, certainly low cycle threshold be the way to go. But if we're not going to do that, let's have confirmatory testing with antigen testing, like rapid antigen testing. Like with HIV, we don't rely on one test, we always have confirmatory testing, we use duality of testing. We should have done that with COVID. So the PCR test became this generator of false cases, this got reported. And what made it worse is the PCR test influenced attribution of mortality. So what now that you know, the CDC definition of a COVID death is that if you were PCR positive at any time, and then you died, it counted as a COVID death. Yeah, Elon was on the podcast saying that if you got bit by a shark, and you tested positive for COVID, they listed as a COVID death. Right. Well, they also were financially compensated for COVID deaths. This is a problem. Well, it was leading cause of hospitalization and the number one hospital reimbursement for two years, two years. So the hospitals quickly learned the game there, they're the money making money, like anybody else, they're in the game. And so they would do PCR testing. And of interest, many of them dropped influenza testing. So someone comes in... So they're doing 40 cycles, 45 cycles of PCR testing, they're dropping the influenza testing, and they're getting compensated for positive COVID results, more than 80% of which are false positives. And to make matters worse, Joe, some little old person who really has influenza, they would come in and get remdesivir. Oh, God. Oh, God. You know, influenza basically went away. I know, which is wild. This is mind-blowing. Wild, which is also impossible, actually impossible. So it had to be gaming of the PCR test, gaming of... And you know, there's an example of what's going on now, today, of gaming with the PCR test. And you know the disease? What? Measles. Really? They're using PCR tests for measles. How many cycles are they running? I don't know, but I can tell you Quest and LabCorp have gone bonkers with measles testing. Now listen, a few years ago... Because this is all because of a lot of anti-vax talk about measles. Now it's easy, now it's easy to ramp up the case count. So people are blaming RFK and Trump. Oh, there's a measles outbreak. Of interest, guess what? There's a measles outbreak in the UK. Well, Trump and RFK have nothing to do with what's going on in the UK. So testing is going through the roof. It turns out we've probably had viral exanthems, viral rashes forever, and they're probably going to break through cases of measles that are, you know, not of any clinical import. Now everyone's being tested, and I've looked at a few of the cases in Pennsylvania, and I'm enormously suspicious that Josh Shapiro, who is really taking aim at Trump and RFK... I think Josh Shapiro has basically given out the orders for the medical examiners to do measles PCR testing of deaths. So a couple of these deaths don't make any sense at all, where there's no rash, there's no pneumonitis, whatever, but they're measles PCR, and they said, oh, we've got a measles death. Oh, boy. So the gaming of the PCR and attribution of death is something we have to, you know, get a grip on. It's really bad. That's terrifying. It's just, it's terrifying when there's financial incentives. The financial incentives that existed during COVID to list everything a COVID death, and that COVID infections, that they were financially compensated for treating COVID infections, when in fact, many of them were false positives. And the amount of money we paid for these hospitalizations, do you know that even in 2023, there was a paper in JAMA from Johns Hopkins of Omicron. You know, if people ended up on the ventilator that late in the pandemic, you know, the mortality rate was still 40%? 40% ventilator mortality. You know, early in the pandemic, I was on some calls where people were talking about 90% ventilator mortality rate. So, wait a minute, we've had six years of the pandemic. Hospitals and doctors have a lot of bravado. They want to be really good at heart disease and cancer and surgery. And have you ever seen those billboards where the doctors, they kind of look like you, Joe, they're all jacked and they're wearing their scrubs and they're like fighting disease. Have you seen these type of, you know, the commercials for health care? You know, we're going to, we're the best in Dallas, Fort Worth. Everyone is claiming to be the best. Do you know how a single hospital claims to be the best at COVID? Not a one. There's not a single hospital that said we're number one. We had the lowest mortality rate, the lowest ventilator use. Here's our innovative protocols. Isn't that crazy? This is wild. That is crazy. Not a one. This was a number, this was a cash cow. Nobody claims to be any good. I'm on a standing committee in the Arizona Senate and House. And they said, Dr. McCullough, how can we ever get ready for another pandemic? I said, call in your hospital CEOs and CMOs and let's do comparative statistics. Let's do lessons learned. Let's do shared learning about this. Comparative statistics. She said they will not come in. They will not show up. They will not show up. They showed no innovation. They delivered, they just had a U.S. Senate hearing on this. The care was horrible in the hospital and they know it. Why are you depressing me? Well, we have, listen, out of the pandemic, Joe, good things have happened. We formed the wellness company, Foster Coulson, founder from Canada, Peter Galuli, our CEO. We've got a wonderful board. We've got Drew Pinsky, Kelly Victory, myself, Harvey Risch. We have formed a nationwide global company with our own pharmacies, our own compounding pharmacies, innovative products and solutions. We'll never get burned with COVID again because we have pre-prescribed medications that get out to people. We've got ivermectin compounded. We've got ivermectin and bendazole, which is a wonderful story now for cancer. Has ivermectin lost its stigma? Oh, I think so. I think so. The pharmacies, if you go to CVS or Walgreens, they still won't fill it. But the compounding pharmacies are very good. Wellness company. Isn't that crazy? Multiple pharmacies. They still won't, they still won't, but wellness company, listen, we've got, we have the nation's Medicare care management contract for the senior citizens with Medicare, big Dallas office in operation. That's where I am right now. What if somebody gets something that they used to use ivermectin for before the pandemic, like yellow fever? Will they fulfill prescription for that? Well, you could do any parasitic infection like river blindness from the flu. Well, you could do any parasitic infection like river blindness, for instance. But my experience is they will prescribe no, they will fill no ivermectin. That is literally crazy. That's the reason why we need the wellness company. We have pharmacies now, and you know, we only use our green listed FDA approved original pharmaceutical ingredients, the API's high quality. And I can tell you the next pandemic, people are going to look at Fauci or Shah or any of these people. They're going to go to innovative companies. They're going to provide solutions. And we're ready to do it. Fauci, certainly Fauci, particularly after those last hearings. Remember, the government didn't treat anybody. The CDC has 12,000 employees, $9 billion annual budget. They didn't treat a single patient. They don't operate hospitals. They don't operate clinics. They don't dispense drugs. This is very important. That's the reason why out of the pandemic, we've had innovative solutions arise. You know, there are now companies giving provisions. We have this recent, if you heard this American Fortress warning about having 90 days of having water, food, having provisions. We have companies that can do the wellness company. We have medical solutions. You have Patriot Supply. You have all these other companies now, solar, Elon Musk and his solar and cell phone service. People now, we actually have solutions, whereas years ago, we didn't. Before we leave, I want to talk to you about the personal cost that you endured when you spoke out. And when you were, you know, essentially a dissident. When you were in the beginning of the COVID pandemic, you were the person that people pointed to and said, this is an example of misinformation. Like you said, you were accused of selling snake oil. Like, what was it like for your career? What was the impact? Well, let me tell you, I didn't have a stroke. I didn't have myocarditis. I'm healthy. I'm older than you. And I feel great. And so when you look at the people who lost their lives and the people who have been devastated by the infection or the vaccine, just the fact that we have our health, Joe, is so important. It's so much more, honestly, than our jobs. And I put my whole life into medicine since age 17. But what I saw was so horrible and saw people suffering. You know, people died alone. They died alone. I saw things that were so bad. I couldn't sit back and say, you know what? I'm going to protect my career and let somebody else take the bullets. If I helped one person, it was worth it. One. That's the criteria. That's what a doctor does. We have a million doctors and half a million nurse practitioners that sat on the sidelines and let Americans get slaughtered. We had a handful of people who stepped forward. I wouldn't change a thing. But what happened to you? Like, what was- Well, everything. Everything. I was stripped of everything. Professorships, editorships, grants, advisory panels, consultancies, you name it. You name it. If they could, they would have just pinned me up to a cross. It's just- It's so bad. And, you know, I have colleagues in Australia, in Europe, in the UK, in Canada, in South America. They did the same thing as me. They did the right thing. I think history will record. I think it will as well. Have any of those things been restored? That you were stripped of? Out of these professional downturns, and there were lawsuits, and money lost, and corruption, and great things have been spawned. We spawned the wellness company, which is heading towards skyrocketing for evaluation and IPO. We're going to be enormously successful. We have New York Times bestselling books. I'm in my fifth office in Dallas, but I'm thriving now in a great environment. I'm the editor of a major journal. After losing two editorships, I've still yet to have an academic organization call me in for grand rounds. And my goal is to live long enough to get that call. 2019, I was a visiting professor in medicine, and I lectured at Harvard in two divisions. Two divisions. They all know me. They all know me at the Mayo Clinic. They know me at every major institution in the United States. And I have patients go to those institutions, and they specifically bring up my name. They say, yeah, we know Dr. McCullough. Not a single one of my former colleagues in academia will send even as much as an email, or a text, or a phone call. It is airtight. It is airtight. And some of them have died. Our former chief of cardiology, when I was a division chief, had William Beaumont in Detroit, David Haynes. We have an annual ski meeting. David just dies right there in the hotel. He had cardiac arrest. One of my colleagues at Baylor in Dallas, cardiologist my age, Dr. Jimenez, he just dies of a cardiac arrest. It's happening. It's happening. We are seeing people die out from the pandemic. I predict that when we look back on this, for a period of time, human longevity will be truncated due to the pandemic, both from the infection and from the vaccines. We're already seeing a fertility cliff. It's very important. Dr. Wiebeke-Manichi, one of the most respected public health figures in Denmark, has already published this. Fertility has fallen off a cliff after the first year of vaccination, both male and female fertility. I just told you, 9% of Democratic senators have had premature stroke. 9%. Add in a few more. Lauren Bobart, a Colorado representative, has had blood clots surgically taken out of her legs. It was called May-Therner syndrome, probably driven by the spike protein. Dianne Feinstein dies of neuroinvasive varicella in her brain. That's a COVID vaccine injury syndrome. And the list goes on and on. All the athletes, all of our friends in the media, we see this happening. So we're going to... Humanity took a hit. Two big waves, the infection and now the vaccines. Now we're going to recover through the wellness company, things that you've done. Independent media is rocking right now because no one can trust mainstream media. They know they're not getting a straight story. Absolutely. Another thing was the increase in all-cause mortality, which insurance companies were posting about. And that was extraordinary. At one point, I think it was like 40% increase in all-cause mortality for young people, which is nuts. It's a Six Sigma event. These actuaries know the expected rates of death. And all-cause mortality for working age people skyrocketed. Great credit to Edward Dowd, who's a former financial manager, who studied this very carefully. John Bedouin, who's studied the death certificates and what's going on. These people have all written books. The books will go down. There's dozens of books now that are very helpful to understand what's happened. But you're right. Mortality has gone up. You know what's really spooky is probably 10 or 15 years ago, we used to hear about politicians being concerned we're going to run out of money for Social Security or Medicare. You never hear that anymore. No one brings it up. They don't? Have you heard anybody this season worry about Social Security running out of money? I thought I have. Fiscal responsibility. Well, fiscal responsibility has kind of gone out the window. But the point is, there is an actuarial loss now of people. Now, the baby boomers are on the tail end of the baby boomers. Baby boomers are, gosh, what are they? 1946 to 1964. So I'm the tail end of the baby boomers. That big swath of the population now is all either older than me. Sadly, some have passed away. So we're going to see a big swath of the population pass away. It is a reality. And things are going to curtail. But we have to get control of fiscal responsibility. These numbers are very important to know. Our U.S. spend on our budget in 2004 was $2.2 trillion with a T. That's how much we spent in 2004. We got to 2019. We're at $4.4 trillion. Doubled. That's more than the time value of money. Doubled. We get to COVID under Trump administration, we go $4.4, $6.6 trillion overnight. Overnight. That's a 50% increase in our budget. Money was just hemorrhaging all over the place. Now we're into Trump 2.0, big, beautiful bill, which is a big spending bill as well. $7.7 trillion. Elon Musk, you've had him on your show. Elon tries to go to Washington. He sees waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere. And they couldn't wait to see him get out of Washington. because he was going to ruin the party. We're in an absolute spending orgy as a country right now. And we're borrowing from ourselves through treasury bonds. So when this whole party ends, it's going to be, sorry, American people, we know you liked your 401ks, but the whole treasury bond system is going bust. All right, on that note. So we have to do better. The point is we have to do better. And I think people are learning the truth. Let's hope that through elections, let's hope through people seeking truth, getting a whole variety of opinions that we take a better course. And I think the future is bright, but the pandemic was certainly a six-year learning experience and it's going to go on for a few more years. Agreed. All right, well, thank you, sir. It was great to see you again. Thank you. And thank you for all your courage. I really appreciate it. And for your ethics and your morals. You're a good man. Thank you. Bye, everybody. ♪♪ Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit samsclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club. Annual plan only, auto-renews, TNC apply, estimate based on average combined Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus savings among members of both for one plus year versus non-member or club member pricing slash fees. Excludes membership fees. See Walmart Plus terms and Sam's Club terms for more info. For families facing hunger this holiday, your generosity could mean one less difficult choice. Across the Feeding America network, your gift fulfills the promise of connecting neighbors to nourishing food and stability. 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