Jake Paul on Going From YouTube to Boxing to Investing | a16z ft. Anti Fund

We're officially announcing the hund00 We're officially announcing the hund00 million overs subscribed growth fund and million overs subscribed growth fund and million overs subscribed growth fund and some of the tier one names, maybe all some of the tier one names, maybe all some of the tier one names, maybe all the tier one names. And Edged, the tier one names. And Edged, the tier one names. And Edged, Cognition, Seronic, Modal. Cognition, Seronic, Modal. Cognition, Seronic, Modal. >> Good [screaming] >> Good [screaming] >> Good [screaming] morning, party people. What is going on? morning, party people. What is going on? morning, party people. What is going on? >> Jake Paul is one of the biggest >> Jake Paul is one of the biggest >> Jake Paul is one of the biggest YouTubers and influencers on the planet. YouTubers and influencers on the planet. YouTubers and influencers on the planet. He didn't just pick a fight with one He didn't just pick a fight with one He didn't just pick a fight with one good guy. He picked a fight with an good guy. He picked a fight with an good guy. He picked a fight with an entire sport. entire sport. entire sport. When there's a lot of people watching When there's a lot of people watching When there's a lot of people watching you, sometimes you want to like take it you, sometimes you want to like take it you, sometimes you want to like take it up to the next level. up to the next level. up to the next level. >> And then boom, it became a thing to hate >> And then boom, it became a thing to hate >> And then boom, it became a thing to hate Jake Paul. Jake Paul. Jake Paul. >> He is completely unhinged. Today we are >> He is completely unhinged. Today we are >> He is completely unhinged. Today we are talking about the block head. Is Jake talking about the block head. Is Jake talking about the block head. Is Jake Paul a boxer? Paul a boxer? Paul a boxer? >> When we announced anti-fun was like GW >> When we announced anti-fun was like GW >> When we announced anti-fun was like GW like you're making a mistake. Jake is like you're making a mistake. Jake is like you're making a mistake. Jake is not like good. You're you're ruining not like good. You're you're ruining not like good. You're you're ruining your career. And we're [music] just like your career. And we're [music] just like your career. And we're [music] just like whatever, bro. whatever, bro. whatever, bro. >> When did you guys know that you were >> When did you guys know that you were >> When did you guys know that you were going to be such partners? One way I going to be such partners? One way I going to be such partners? One way I think about it is that like if Jay can think about it is that like if Jay can think about it is that like if Jay can just live his life and get a bunch of just live his life and get a bunch of just live his life and get a bunch of views and someone has to light $100 views and someone has to light $100 views and someone has to light $100 million on fire to get a bunch of views, million on fire to get a bunch of views, million on fire to get a bunch of views, who do I want to be partners with? who do I want to be partners with? who do I want to be partners with? >> I think a lot of people in the space can >> I think a lot of people in the space can >> I think a lot of people in the space can have a lot of followers, but not the have a lot of followers, but not the have a lot of followers, but not the cash and cash is king. cash and cash is king. cash and cash is king. >> Jake, Jeff, we've got some big news. >> Jake, Jeff, we've got some big news. >> Jake, Jeff, we've got some big news. Thanks for coming on the podcast today Thanks for coming on the podcast today Thanks for coming on the podcast today to discuss it. We've got a growth fund. to discuss it. We've got a growth fund. to discuss it. We've got a growth fund. Why don't Why don't you share the big Why don't Why don't you share the big Why don't Why don't you share the big news? Yeah, we're uh officially news? Yeah, we're uh officially news? Yeah, we're uh officially announcing the uh growth fund that we've announcing the uh growth fund that we've announcing the uh growth fund that we've been working on for quite some time in been working on for quite some time in been working on for quite some time in uh some of the tier one names, a lot of uh some of the tier one names, a lot of uh some of the tier one names, a lot of the tier one names, maybe all the tier the tier one names, maybe all the tier the tier one names, maybe all the tier one names. [laughter] one names. [laughter] one names. [laughter] Um but Andural, Etched, Cognition, Um but Andural, Etched, Cognition, Um but Andural, Etched, Cognition, SpaceX, SpaceX, SpaceX, um Open AAI, Anthropic, um Open AAI, Anthropic, um Open AAI, Anthropic, uh Seronic, uh Seronic, uh Seronic, Modal. Modal. Modal. So yeah, So yeah, So yeah, >> the list goes on. A lot work >> the list goes on. A lot work >> the list goes on. A lot work collaborators in. Um maybe they'll just collaborators in. Um maybe they'll just collaborators in. Um maybe they'll just zoom out first. Uh Jeff, for those who zoom out first. Uh Jeff, for those who zoom out first. Uh Jeff, for those who are not familiar from what you can see are not familiar from what you can see are not familiar from what you can see beyond the surface, how would you beyond the surface, how would you beyond the surface, how would you describe Jake's superpowers that led him describe Jake's superpowers that led him describe Jake's superpowers that led him to be the amazing partner for you here? to be the amazing partner for you here? to be the amazing partner for you here? And then I'm going ask Jake the same. And then I'm going ask Jake the same. And then I'm going ask Jake the same. >> I think Jake from the outside could be >> I think Jake from the outside could be >> I think Jake from the outside could be like entertainer or professional like entertainer or professional like entertainer or professional athlete, but I think to me Jake's always athlete, but I think to me Jake's always athlete, but I think to me Jake's always been a constant entrepreneur. one. And been a constant entrepreneur. one. And been a constant entrepreneur. one. And then two, I think he's really created then two, I think he's really created then two, I think he's really created himself as a taste maker and a cultural himself as a taste maker and a cultural himself as a taste maker and a cultural leader of his generation, right? Like leader of his generation, right? Like leader of his generation, right? Like all the young kids today look up and all the young kids today look up and all the young kids today look up and want to be an influencer. Jake literally want to be an influencer. Jake literally want to be an influencer. Jake literally created the influencer term in that like created the influencer term in that like created the influencer term in that like job profile. If you think about him job profile. If you think about him job profile. If you think about him instantiating the daily vlog. So I think instantiating the daily vlog. So I think instantiating the daily vlog. So I think it's easy to especially with an internet it's easy to especially with an internet it's easy to especially with an internet character like you take pieces of that character like you take pieces of that character like you take pieces of that persona and just put that as a whole persona and just put that as a whole persona and just put that as a whole human. But the underlying thread is I human. But the underlying thread is I human. But the underlying thread is I think he's a very generous, thoughtful, think he's a very generous, thoughtful, think he's a very generous, thoughtful, kind human being who is very ambitious kind human being who is very ambitious kind human being who is very ambitious and is going to not stop in whatever uh and is going to not stop in whatever uh and is going to not stop in whatever uh venues that he chooses to participate venues that he chooses to participate venues that he chooses to participate and compete in. So I think if it's and compete in. So I think if it's and compete in. So I think if it's entertainment, media, sports, [snorts] entertainment, media, sports, [snorts] entertainment, media, sports, [snorts] and hopefully with venture capital, and hopefully with venture capital, and hopefully with venture capital, growth equity, investing, uh we take growth equity, investing, uh we take growth equity, investing, uh we take that on together. So that on together. So that on together. So >> thank you Jeff. [laughter] >> thank you Jeff. [laughter] >> thank you Jeff. [laughter] the um well, why don't you say the same the um well, why don't you say the same the um well, why don't you say the same for Jeff? Obviously, the same question for Jeff? Obviously, the same question for Jeff? Obviously, the same question that we'll get into both your stories. that we'll get into both your stories. that we'll get into both your stories. >> Yeah, I think Jeff uh is one of the >> Yeah, I think Jeff uh is one of the >> Yeah, I think Jeff uh is one of the smartest people that I know just across smartest people that I know just across smartest people that I know just across the board and um I think the work ethic the board and um I think the work ethic the board and um I think the work ethic and the his background being so and the his background being so and the his background being so different than mine as well. we make different than mine as well. we make different than mine as well. we make like such a great team, you know, like such a great team, you know, like such a great team, you know, computer science, Stanford, uh, but is computer science, Stanford, uh, but is computer science, Stanford, uh, but is deep deep networks and we just think deep deep networks and we just think deep deep networks and we just think similarly, um, and a lot of things and I similarly, um, and a lot of things and I similarly, um, and a lot of things and I think that lends itself really well to think that lends itself really well to think that lends itself really well to being great partners. Um, but yeah, he's being great partners. Um, but yeah, he's being great partners. Um, but yeah, he's non-stop thinking ahead and sees non-stop thinking ahead and sees non-stop thinking ahead and sees a lot of things before they come around a lot of things before they come around a lot of things before they come around the the corner. and um he actually said the the corner. and um he actually said the the corner. and um he actually said no to investing in my first company when no to investing in my first company when no to investing in my first company when I was 18 years old and the company I was 18 years old and the company I was 18 years old and the company failed. So he was right. Um so just failed. So he was right. Um so just failed. So he was right. Um so just really great judgment. Um great people, really great judgment. Um great people, really great judgment. Um great people, you know, this is the people business you know, this is the people business you know, this is the people business and so just being able to really read and so just being able to really read and so just being able to really read people and have that EQ as well as IQ is people and have that EQ as well as IQ is people and have that EQ as well as IQ is really important. really important. really important. >> You're you're just making us like >> You're you're just making us like >> You're you're just making us like flatter at each other. Yeah, Eric, flatter at each other. Yeah, Eric, flatter at each other. Yeah, Eric, you're an OG. So that compliment you as you're an OG. So that compliment you as you're an OG. So that compliment you as well. well. well. >> I appreciate. Well, I mean I um speaking >> I appreciate. Well, I mean I um speaking >> I appreciate. Well, I mean I um speaking of OG, I remember Cory Levy uh you know, of OG, I remember Cory Levy uh you know, of OG, I remember Cory Levy uh you know, many years ago said, "Hey, I've got this many years ago said, "Hey, I've got this many years ago said, "Hey, I've got this kid you you got to meet. He's building kid you you got to meet. He's building kid you you got to meet. He's building something super interesting. Uh he's something super interesting. Uh he's something super interesting. Uh he's super talented." And I was out of town. super talented." And I was out of town. super talented." And I was out of town. I was like, "Ah, you know, I don't know I was like, "Ah, you know, I don't know I was like, "Ah, you know, I don't know if I I I he ended up introducing him. We if I I I he ended up introducing him. We if I I I he ended up introducing him. We we never uh ended up meeting." And I we never uh ended up meeting." And I we never uh ended up meeting." And I remember sometimes I reflect back, I'm remember sometimes I reflect back, I'm remember sometimes I reflect back, I'm like, "Holy shit." Like, first off, like, "Holy shit." Like, first off, like, "Holy shit." Like, first off, Cory's incredible judge of talent, but Cory's incredible judge of talent, but Cory's incredible judge of talent, but two, it's like you got to take bets on two, it's like you got to take bets on two, it's like you got to take bets on the on the like up andcoming T because the on the like up andcoming T because the on the like up andcoming T because you never know, you know, where they're you never know, you know, where they're you never know, you know, where they're going to end up. Jake, the idea that going to end up. Jake, the idea that going to end up. Jake, the idea that someone would, you know, become a media someone would, you know, become a media someone would, you know, become a media sort of mogul, then, you know, sort of mogul, then, you know, sort of mogul, then, you know, professional athlete, then a tech professional athlete, then a tech professional athlete, then a tech investor. That that's like a pretty investor. That that's like a pretty investor. That that's like a pretty distinct path. distinct path. distinct path. Say more about what other people can Say more about what other people can Say more about what other people can learn from how you took your path. like learn from how you took your path. like learn from how you took your path. like was it all organic or what was sort of was it all organic or what was sort of was it all organic or what was sort of your strategy or how do you even like your strategy or how do you even like your strategy or how do you even like retroactively make sense of of your sort retroactively make sense of of your sort retroactively make sense of of your sort of multi-hyphenate career? of multi-hyphenate career? of multi-hyphenate career? >> Yeah, it's really interesting. I think >> Yeah, it's really interesting. I think >> Yeah, it's really interesting. I think always being like entrepreneur first and always being like entrepreneur first and always being like entrepreneur first and very analytical and when things are very analytical and when things are very analytical and when things are working double, triple quadruple down working double, triple quadruple down working double, triple quadruple down and when they're not, just sweep the and when they're not, just sweep the and when they're not, just sweep the things under the rug. [snorts] And so, things under the rug. [snorts] And so, things under the rug. [snorts] And so, uh, uh, uh, >> that's what someone once said about A6 >> that's what someone once said about A6 >> that's what someone once said about A6 and Z. I love that they just launch a and Z. I love that they just launch a and Z. I love that they just launch a bunch of stuff and then when it doesn't bunch of stuff and then when it doesn't bunch of stuff and then when it doesn't work, you just pretend it never work, you just pretend it never work, you just pretend it never happened. Seriously, I' I've failed so happened. Seriously, I' I've failed so happened. Seriously, I' I've failed so many times to get to this point and made many times to get to this point and made many times to get to this point and made so many mistakes. And I think it's so many mistakes. And I think it's so many mistakes. And I think it's resilience in this day and age and in resilience in this day and age and in resilience in this day and age and in having a public career as well and being having a public career as well and being having a public career as well and being uh a public figure. I think you have to uh a public figure. I think you have to uh a public figure. I think you have to have tons of resilience. You have to have tons of resilience. You have to have tons of resilience. You have to know yourself. You have to um go through know yourself. You have to um go through know yourself. You have to um go through ups and downs. But I think uh being an ups and downs. But I think uh being an ups and downs. But I think uh being an entrepreneur at heart, I always looked entrepreneur at heart, I always looked entrepreneur at heart, I always looked at everything from a business lens and at everything from a business lens and at everything from a business lens and always hustled and showed up every always hustled and showed up every always hustled and showed up every single day and knocked down every single single day and knocked down every single single day and knocked down every single door of opportunity and always wanted to door of opportunity and always wanted to door of opportunity and always wanted to grow my network. I think that's been a grow my network. I think that's been a grow my network. I think that's been a super powerful thing that differentiates super powerful thing that differentiates super powerful thing that differentiates me um is always knowing the right person me um is always knowing the right person me um is always knowing the right person at the right times to um ask them for at the right times to um ask them for at the right times to um ask them for help or ask them for a favor um and also help or ask them for a favor um and also help or ask them for a favor um and also doing favors for them when they need you doing favors for them when they need you doing favors for them when they need you and not charging for it. I think people and not charging for it. I think people and not charging for it. I think people in this entertainment world are very in this entertainment world are very in this entertainment world are very transactional um and short thinking and transactional um and short thinking and transactional um and short thinking and not professional. They show up late. Um, not professional. They show up late. Um, not professional. They show up late. Um, I've always tried to be the most I've always tried to be the most I've always tried to be the most professional entertainer. Um, and so professional entertainer. Um, and so professional entertainer. Um, and so that's lend itself well. And then when that's lend itself well. And then when that's lend itself well. And then when like I went to box, it kind of started like I went to box, it kind of started like I went to box, it kind of started as, you know, this crazy thing. But then as, you know, this crazy thing. But then as, you know, this crazy thing. But then it was a million pay-per-view buys, it was a million pay-per-view buys, it was a million pay-per-view buys, 30,000 tickets sold out. I had a blast 30,000 tickets sold out. I had a blast 30,000 tickets sold out. I had a blast doing it. I was like, "Okay, doing it. I was like, "Okay, doing it. I was like, "Okay, >> experiment for you." >> experiment for you." >> experiment for you." >> Or did you know you were going to go all >> Or did you know you were going to go all >> Or did you know you were going to go all in when you in when you in when you >> No, I didn't know I was going to go all >> No, I didn't know I was going to go all >> No, I didn't know I was going to go all in. But but after the first one, it was in. But but after the first one, it was in. But but after the first one, it was like this was absolutely massive. I'm like this was absolutely massive. I'm like this was absolutely massive. I'm going to become world champion. And that going to become world champion. And that going to become world champion. And that was like a pivot moment where it's like, was like a pivot moment where it's like, was like a pivot moment where it's like, yeah, this content's stuff's cool and yeah, this content's stuff's cool and yeah, this content's stuff's cool and doing great, but I can still do content doing great, but I can still do content doing great, but I can still do content within boxing, but this boxing match was within boxing, but this boxing match was within boxing, but this boxing match was the most viewed amateur event ever, the most viewed amateur event ever, the most viewed amateur event ever, 30,000 tickets sold. The press 30,000 tickets sold. The press 30,000 tickets sold. The press conferences were getting tens of conferences were getting tens of conferences were getting tens of millions of views. So, I was like, millions of views. So, I was like, millions of views. So, I was like, clearly people love this and I love it clearly people love this and I love it clearly people love this and I love it and so I'm going to go all in. And then and so I'm going to go all in. And then and so I'm going to go all in. And then that, you know, lends itself to now that, you know, lends itself to now that, you know, lends itself to now being, you know, one of the highest paid being, you know, one of the highest paid being, you know, one of the highest paid athletes on the Forbes list um because athletes on the Forbes list um because athletes on the Forbes list um because of just following the numbers. So I of just following the numbers. So I of just following the numbers. So I think being analytical think being analytical think being analytical um as an entertainer is also important. um as an entertainer is also important. um as an entertainer is also important. >> So So you have the content, you have >> So So you have the content, you have >> So So you have the content, you have this massively high grossing boxing this massively high grossing boxing this massively high grossing boxing career. Why get into tech? career. Why get into tech? career. Why get into tech? >> Yeah. So I think it was actually again >> Yeah. So I think it was actually again >> Yeah. So I think it was actually again just being an entrepreneur at heart, but just being an entrepreneur at heart, but just being an entrepreneur at heart, but it was actually my one of my first loves it was actually my one of my first loves it was actually my one of my first loves was the valley and coming out here when was the valley and coming out here when was the valley and coming out here when I was 17 with Corey and Alex Dealov I was 17 with Corey and Alex Dealov I was 17 with Corey and Alex Dealov actually and um they showed me all these actually and um they showed me all these actually and um they showed me all these crazy companies and I got to meet some crazy companies and I got to meet some crazy companies and I got to meet some really smart people who were building really smart people who were building really smart people who were building the future and seeing like uh even the future and seeing like uh even the future and seeing like uh even Cory's after school setup where he had Cory's after school setup where he had Cory's after school setup where he had like all the screens and all the like all the screens and all the like all the screens and all the employees were there and it was just employees were there and it was just employees were there and it was just like so different um and so cool. And like so different um and so cool. And like so different um and so cool. And that's when I fell in love with wanting that's when I fell in love with wanting that's when I fell in love with wanting to make my own startups and being a to make my own startups and being a to make my own startups and being a founder, but also being in the investor founder, but also being in the investor founder, but also being in the investor world and even understanding how it world and even understanding how it world and even understanding how it works and all the VC lingo and uh works and all the VC lingo and uh works and all the VC lingo and uh started growing my network. And so it's started growing my network. And so it's started growing my network. And so it's really always been there since I was a really always been there since I was a really always been there since I was a kid and it's always been something that kid and it's always been something that kid and it's always been something that I loved. Um, and then when I was 23, I I loved. Um, and then when I was 23, I I loved. Um, and then when I was 23, I wanted to take a bigger bite at the wanted to take a bigger bite at the wanted to take a bigger bite at the apple and um, that's when I met Jeff and apple and um, that's when I met Jeff and apple and um, that's when I met Jeff and the stars aligned and we just decided to the stars aligned and we just decided to the stars aligned and we just decided to go bigger and bigger and bigger and go bigger and bigger and bigger and go bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and turns out um, that we're bigger and turns out um, that we're bigger and turns out um, that we're actually really good at it. So, it's fun actually really good at it. So, it's fun actually really good at it. So, it's fun when things are working and um, it's when things are working and um, it's when things are working and um, it's fun, you know, helping shape the future fun, you know, helping shape the future fun, you know, helping shape the future of America with these companies. When of America with these companies. When of America with these companies. When did you know that you were going to like did you know that you were going to like did you know that you were going to like be partners? be partners? be partners? >> You know, I I'll I can start. And it's a >> You know, I I'll I can start. And it's a >> You know, I I'll I can start. And it's a really funny because we were just really funny because we were just really funny because we were just spending the weekend with the all-in spending the weekend with the all-in spending the weekend with the all-in podcast uh besties and Jason podcast uh besties and Jason podcast uh besties and Jason Kellacanist. And I remember when we Kellacanist. And I remember when we Kellacanist. And I remember when we announced Antifund, Jake was like, "GW, announced Antifund, Jake was like, "GW, announced Antifund, Jake was like, "GW, like you're making a mistake. Like Jake like you're making a mistake. Like Jake like you're making a mistake. Like Jake is not like good. You're you're ruining is not like good. You're you're ruining is not like good. You're you're ruining your career." And we're just like your career." And we're just like your career." And we're just like whatever, bro. like you you're and whatever, bro. like you you're and whatever, bro. like you you're and there's like a full circle moment there's like a full circle moment there's like a full circle moment because I joke about it now, but um one because I joke about it now, but um one because I joke about it now, but um one I think like there's no beef. It was fun I think like there's no beef. It was fun I think like there's no beef. It was fun to play poker with those guys, but two to play poker with those guys, but two to play poker with those guys, but two like Jake Kel, you're a podcaster. like Jake Kel, you're a podcaster. like Jake Kel, you're a podcaster. You're trying to be what Jake invented. You're trying to be what Jake invented. You're trying to be what Jake invented. You are a VC turn influencer You are a VC turn influencer You are a VC turn influencer and I think we will give you guys a run and I think we will give you guys a run and I think we will give you guys a run for money from who can be the better for money from who can be the better for money from who can be the better investor. investor. investor. >> Um no, but I remember >> Um no, but I remember >> Um no, but I remember >> shots fired. Um but but I remember that >> shots fired. Um but but I remember that >> shots fired. Um but but I remember that I found that Jake was very wise for 23 I found that Jake was very wise for 23 I found that Jake was very wise for 23 24. Um and what I mean by that is 24. Um and what I mean by that is 24. Um and what I mean by that is I think very few people have the amount I think very few people have the amount I think very few people have the amount of like inbound requests, outbound of like inbound requests, outbound of like inbound requests, outbound requests for their time across so many requests for their time across so many requests for their time across so many different spectrums. I would say that different spectrums. I would say that different spectrums. I would say that one way I compliment Drake is that he one way I compliment Drake is that he one way I compliment Drake is that he context switches so widely, right? context switches so widely, right? context switches so widely, right? There's like one moment where there's There's like one moment where there's There's like one moment where there's paparazzi, he's going to events and he's paparazzi, he's going to events and he's paparazzi, he's going to events and he's like a celebrity on a red carpet and like a celebrity on a red carpet and like a celebrity on a red carpet and like he's blinged out in influencer like he's blinged out in influencer like he's blinged out in influencer gear. Next moment he's a professional gear. Next moment he's a professional gear. Next moment he's a professional athlete training and like preparing for athlete training and like preparing for athlete training and like preparing for a massive Netflix headline fight. next a massive Netflix headline fight. next a massive Netflix headline fight. next moment he's like negotiating business moment he's like negotiating business moment he's like negotiating business deals and inside the weeds of numbers deals and inside the weeds of numbers deals and inside the weeds of numbers and like his his metrics and then you and like his his metrics and then you and like his his metrics and then you pivot off to the next thing then he's pivot off to the next thing then he's pivot off to the next thing then he's like filming on TikTok right and I think like filming on TikTok right and I think like filming on TikTok right and I think in Silicon Valley there's a lot of smart in Silicon Valley there's a lot of smart in Silicon Valley there's a lot of smart people and I think the context switching people and I think the context switching people and I think the context switching is pretty wide as a founder but to go is pretty wide as a founder but to go is pretty wide as a founder but to go from like go entertainment mode to like from like go entertainment mode to like from like go entertainment mode to like serious quantitative analytic mode that serious quantitative analytic mode that serious quantitative analytic mode that broadly is is very very impressive one broadly is is very very impressive one broadly is is very very impressive one and then two I and then two I and then two I Um, Jake has the one word that you Um, Jake has the one word that you Um, Jake has the one word that you mentioned is that resiliency. Like Jake mentioned is that resiliency. Like Jake mentioned is that resiliency. Like Jake has just seen a lot of [ __ ] like coming has just seen a lot of [ __ ] like coming has just seen a lot of [ __ ] like coming up in Hollywood, going through the up in Hollywood, going through the up in Hollywood, going through the influencer phase, uh, going through influencer phase, uh, going through influencer phase, uh, going through controversy, like surviving it, having controversy, like surviving it, having controversy, like surviving it, having haters, like most people do not eat that haters, like most people do not eat that haters, like most people do not eat that much pain. And I think that if you think much pain. And I think that if you think much pain. And I think that if you think about investing or startups, it's pain about investing or startups, it's pain about investing or startups, it's pain tolerance. And if you're literally tolerance. And if you're literally tolerance. And if you're literally fighting and punching people or getting fighting and punching people or getting fighting and punching people or getting punched in the face for a living. And punched in the face for a living. And punched in the face for a living. And then two, like the internet punching then two, like the internet punching then two, like the internet punching you, right? Which is like the most toxic you, right? Which is like the most toxic you, right? Which is like the most toxic environment like internet troll trolls environment like internet troll trolls environment like internet troll trolls like hating on you. If you can survive like hating on you. If you can survive like hating on you. If you can survive that and thrive in that environment, that and thrive in that environment, that and thrive in that environment, that's presidential like head of state that's presidential like head of state that's presidential like head of state level courage and resiliency. So those level courage and resiliency. So those level courage and resiliency. So those two things I think is what is inspiring two things I think is what is inspiring two things I think is what is inspiring to me in terms of like how much can I to me in terms of like how much can I to me in terms of like how much can I context switch to which how much pain context switch to which how much pain context switch to which how much pain tolerance can I have and hopefully tolerance can I have and hopefully tolerance can I have and hopefully that's what we can imbue with our that's what we can imbue with our that's what we can imbue with our startup founders and our portfolio startup founders and our portfolio startup founders and our portfolio companies and our co-investors right companies and our co-investors right companies and our co-investors right like that human quality that is very like that human quality that is very like that human quality that is very rare um rare um rare um is inspiring to me and hopefully for the is inspiring to me and hopefully for the is inspiring to me and hopefully for the people that we work with. people that we work with. people that we work with. >> On that note Jake what can people learn >> On that note Jake what can people learn >> On that note Jake what can people learn from you about resilience and pain from you about resilience and pain from you about resilience and pain tolerance? Is it just something you've tolerance? Is it just something you've tolerance? Is it just something you've had since you were a kid? Is it had since you were a kid? Is it had since you were a kid? Is it something you've learned over time? Is something you've learned over time? Is something you've learned over time? Is it something you've, you know, just sort it something you've, you know, just sort it something you've, you know, just sort of like been pushed off the deep end? of like been pushed off the deep end? of like been pushed off the deep end? >> Yeah. No, I I think it's a little bit of >> Yeah. No, I I think it's a little bit of >> Yeah. No, I I think it's a little bit of all of those things. Um I think I had all of those things. Um I think I had all of those things. Um I think I had like a very intense father, so I think like a very intense father, so I think like a very intense father, so I think it started there. um and just being able it started there. um and just being able it started there. um and just being able to deal with with with him and um to deal with with with him and um to deal with with with him and um growing up in that environment and I growing up in that environment and I growing up in that environment and I think think think the hard work and um the hard work and um the hard work and um that led me to a very public career. Uh that led me to a very public career. Uh that led me to a very public career. Uh it all started with people actually like it all started with people actually like it all started with people actually like hating on me from day one like in my hating on me from day one like in my hating on me from day one like in my school. So there was never like a moment school. So there was never like a moment school. So there was never like a moment where me making the videos didn't have where me making the videos didn't have where me making the videos didn't have like a ton of haters. My whole school in like a ton of haters. My whole school in like a ton of haters. My whole school in high school like turned against me and high school like turned against me and high school like turned against me and was like talking [ __ ] making anonymous was like talking [ __ ] making anonymous was like talking [ __ ] making anonymous accounts saying things about me. My accounts saying things about me. My accounts saying things about me. My principal teachers were saying things. principal teachers were saying things. principal teachers were saying things. Um, so it's always been there. So I Um, so it's always been there. So I Um, so it's always been there. So I think I'm just used to it because of think I'm just used to it because of think I'm just used to it because of that. Um, which is pretty interesting. that. Um, which is pretty interesting. that. Um, which is pretty interesting. And then you're like, what else are you And then you're like, what else are you And then you're like, what else are you gonna do? Like I don't know. just be a gonna do? Like I don't know. just be a gonna do? Like I don't know. just be a coward and quit and give up and let coward and quit and give up and let coward and quit and give up and let people run you. Like I could just never people run you. Like I could just never people run you. Like I could just never be that person and I just don't think be that person and I just don't think be that person and I just don't think that way. And I know who I am. I think that way. And I know who I am. I think that way. And I know who I am. I think that's very important as well. And I that's very important as well. And I that's very important as well. And I feel like a lot of people know who they feel like a lot of people know who they feel like a lot of people know who they are, but they let the comments and are, but they let the comments and are, but they let the comments and critics like get to them very easily. critics like get to them very easily. critics like get to them very easily. And so if you could just look yourself And so if you could just look yourself And so if you could just look yourself in the mirror and be like, I'm doing in the mirror and be like, I'm doing in the mirror and be like, I'm doing good. I'm a good person. I'm doing good good. I'm a good person. I'm doing good good. I'm a good person. I'm doing good good things in the world. I have a good good things in the world. I have a good good things in the world. I have a good heart. I mean well. And if you can mean heart. I mean well. And if you can mean heart. I mean well. And if you can mean those things, then it doesn't matter those things, then it doesn't matter those things, then it doesn't matter what anyone says. what anyone says. what anyone says. >> Yeah. When when people ask you is like, >> Yeah. When when people ask you is like, >> Yeah. When when people ask you is like, "Hey, are tools like uh therapy helpful "Hey, are tools like uh therapy helpful "Hey, are tools like uh therapy helpful or other sort of self-care tools whether or other sort of self-care tools whether or other sort of self-care tools whether physical or emotional or mental to help physical or emotional or mental to help physical or emotional or mental to help deal with like what what do you tell deal with like what what do you tell deal with like what what do you tell them?" them?" them?" >> Yeah, definitely. I I fully believe >> Yeah, definitely. I I fully believe >> Yeah, definitely. I I fully believe that. I think um you just have to be that. I think um you just have to be that. I think um you just have to be careful, you know, you don't want the careful, you know, you don't want the careful, you know, you don't want the therapy to like turn into victimizing therapy to like turn into victimizing therapy to like turn into victimizing yourself and then always being in yourself and then always being in yourself and then always being in constant sad loops. So, I think you have constant sad loops. So, I think you have constant sad loops. So, I think you have to be careful and at some points um if to be careful and at some points um if to be careful and at some points um if it feels needed, yes. But I don't think it feels needed, yes. But I don't think it feels needed, yes. But I don't think you should get like trapped into the you should get like trapped into the you should get like trapped into the cycle of therapy and always kind of cycle of therapy and always kind of cycle of therapy and always kind of having a call with someone or an having a call with someone or an having a call with someone or an in-person meeting with someone that is in-person meeting with someone that is in-person meeting with someone that is generally probably going to be negative. generally probably going to be negative. generally probably going to be negative. Um, and so I think it's very important Um, and so I think it's very important Um, and so I think it's very important like who that therapist is as well. But like who that therapist is as well. But like who that therapist is as well. But I do think it's important to learn about I do think it's important to learn about I do think it's important to learn about yourself and unpack things. And I think yourself and unpack things. And I think yourself and unpack things. And I think the childhood like trauma and going back the childhood like trauma and going back the childhood like trauma and going back and realizing like oh you know um you and realizing like oh you know um you and realizing like oh you know um you know you had this that happened to you know you had this that happened to you know you had this that happened to you and this is maybe why you have anxiety and this is maybe why you have anxiety and this is maybe why you have anxiety in this moment and these things and so I in this moment and these things and so I in this moment and these things and so I I really like childhood trauma work that I really like childhood trauma work that I really like childhood trauma work that you can connect to why you behave you can connect to why you behave you can connect to why you behave certain ways as an adult. certain ways as an adult. certain ways as an adult. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think it's important to unpack >> Um and I think it's important to unpack >> Um and I think it's important to unpack those things and learn about it. those things and learn about it. those things and learn about it. Totally. Jeeoff, why don't you also make Totally. Jeeoff, why don't you also make Totally. Jeeoff, why don't you also make sense of some of like when you're sense of some of like when you're sense of some of like when you're reflecting your career, looking back, reflecting your career, looking back, reflecting your career, looking back, you've taken some big swings and some you've taken some big swings and some you've taken some big swings and some different spaces. Um, when you look back different spaces. Um, when you look back different spaces. Um, when you look back at the the threads that have tied your at the the threads that have tied your at the the threads that have tied your career together, h how do you make sense career together, h how do you make sense career together, h how do you make sense of it? What are some of the big insights of it? What are some of the big insights of it? What are some of the big insights you've had that have led you to go deep you've had that have led you to go deep you've had that have led you to go deep on certain things? on certain things? on certain things? >> I guess like I've always been like a >> I guess like I've always been like a >> I guess like I've always been like a almost an academic or a almost an academic or a almost an academic or a engineer or scientist at heart. um how engineer or scientist at heart. um how engineer or scientist at heart. um how do you like what is the nature of do you like what is the nature of do you like what is the nature of reality? What is the truth? What are the reality? What is the truth? What are the reality? What is the truth? What are the underlying systems or rules that govern underlying systems or rules that govern underlying systems or rules that govern yourself a company a society? Right? So yourself a company a society? Right? So yourself a company a society? Right? So if I think about um some of the things if I think about um some of the things if I think about um some of the things I've been interested in whether it's I've been interested in whether it's I've been interested in whether it's biohacking, how do you optimize your biohacking, how do you optimize your biohacking, how do you optimize your your your singular person? So I think your your singular person? So I think your your singular person? So I think there's like a tinkerer or or like a there's like a tinkerer or or like a there's like a tinkerer or or like a student or an academic that just likes student or an academic that just likes student or an academic that just likes just figuring out the different systems. just figuring out the different systems. just figuring out the different systems. Um and then the second part is I think Um and then the second part is I think Um and then the second part is I think with a little bit of battle scars and with a little bit of battle scars and with a little bit of battle scars and wisdom just like fewer things that just wisdom just like fewer things that just wisdom just like fewer things that just compound really really well. So now I compound really really well. So now I compound really really well. So now I think about why venture and growth is a think about why venture and growth is a think about why venture and growth is a very interesting very interesting very interesting uh problem to play with is that managing uh problem to play with is that managing uh problem to play with is that managing $1 to $100 to a million dollars to a $1 to $100 to a million dollars to a $1 to $100 to a million dollars to a billion dollars is kind of the same billion dollars is kind of the same billion dollars is kind of the same level of hard, right? It's like hard to level of hard, right? It's like hard to level of hard, right? It's like hard to spend $100 really well. It's hard to spend $100 really well. It's hard to spend $100 really well. It's hard to spend a hundred billion dollars really spend a hundred billion dollars really spend a hundred billion dollars really well, but it it's you only need like one well, but it it's you only need like one well, but it it's you only need like one or two people or three people to manage or two people or three people to manage or two people or three people to manage a hundred bucks or a hundred billion a hundred bucks or a hundred billion a hundred bucks or a hundred billion bucks, right? Like those are the best bucks, right? Like those are the best bucks, right? Like those are the best investors are just like really really investors are just like really really investors are just like really really strong conviction folks who just are strong conviction folks who just are strong conviction folks who just are making big bets. Um, so that's where I making big bets. Um, so that's where I making big bets. Um, so that's where I think we've gravitated towards and I think we've gravitated towards and I think we've gravitated towards and I think Jake has a different lens on how think Jake has a different lens on how think Jake has a different lens on how he can scale his thought leadership and he can scale his thought leadership and he can scale his thought leadership and cultural leadership and his um ability cultural leadership and his um ability cultural leadership and his um ability to convene and bring people together at to convene and bring people together at to convene and bring people together at the higher and higher scales. So I think the higher and higher scales. So I think the higher and higher scales. So I think that's like a shared level of just like that's like a shared level of just like that's like a shared level of just like shared ambition and and maybe arrogance shared ambition and and maybe arrogance shared ambition and and maybe arrogance in terms of we think we can play at that in terms of we think we can play at that in terms of we think we can play at that those highest levels of wielding those highest levels of wielding those highest levels of wielding capital, wielding technology, wielding capital, wielding technology, wielding capital, wielding technology, wielding wielding culture. Um so wielding culture. Um so wielding culture. Um so if that is like the end point of just if that is like the end point of just if that is like the end point of just like okay what are the underlying rules like okay what are the underlying rules like okay what are the underlying rules of nature rules of reality um what's the of nature rules of reality um what's the of nature rules of reality um what's the most efficient way to start pulling and most efficient way to start pulling and most efficient way to start pulling and playing with those levers so I think playing with those levers so I think playing with those levers so I think science computer science physics are science computer science physics are science computer science physics are foundational to just the nature of foundational to just the nature of foundational to just the nature of reality and then capital are the is the reality and then capital are the is the reality and then capital are the is the lever of of of like human society and lever of of of like human society and lever of of of like human society and civilization and I think where anti-fund civilization and I think where anti-fund civilization and I think where anti-fund has been quite unique is that in a world has been quite unique is that in a world has been quite unique is that in a world where there's more and more capital is where there's more and more capital is where there's more and more capital is attention more scarce is be able to attention more scarce is be able to attention more scarce is be able to control mind share more scarce so one of control mind share more scarce so one of control mind share more scarce so one of the original questions like why is Jake the original questions like why is Jake the original questions like why is Jake like an ideal partner it's like you you like an ideal partner it's like you you like an ideal partner it's like you you really can't name a better partner than really can't name a better partner than really can't name a better partner than Jake Paul in terms of wielding attention Jake Paul in terms of wielding attention Jake Paul in terms of wielding attention and driving cultural taste so if we can and driving cultural taste so if we can and driving cultural taste so if we can really master those two lovers maybe we really master those two lovers maybe we really master those two lovers maybe we can control the world right like or can control the world right like or can control the world right like or let's just try and have someone stop us let's just try and have someone stop us let's just try and have someone stop us >> yeah there was a famous tweet of if if >> yeah there was a famous tweet of if if >> yeah there was a famous tweet of if if you're smart, pivot to being hot or you you're smart, pivot to being hot or you you're smart, pivot to being hot or you know if you're [laughter] if you're know if you're [laughter] if you're know if you're [laughter] if you're focused on intelligence, you know, uh focused on intelligence, you know, uh focused on intelligence, you know, uh pivot to being, you know, willing pivot to being, you know, willing pivot to being, you know, willing attention. You you had this blog post of attention. You you had this blog post of attention. You you had this blog post of uh you know, there's two jobs, AI maxing uh you know, there's two jobs, AI maxing uh you know, there's two jobs, AI maxing and and looks maxing. Why don't you talk and and looks maxing. Why don't you talk and and looks maxing. Why don't you talk about that? about that? about that? >> Uh yeah. No, I think it's um I think >> Uh yeah. No, I think it's um I think >> Uh yeah. No, I think it's um I think it's actually true. um which is that it's actually true. um which is that it's actually true. um which is that the only thing that really will matter the only thing that really will matter the only thing that really will matter is that if we assume that like we're is that if we assume that like we're is that if we assume that like we're pretty AGI pill um intelligence is just pretty AGI pill um intelligence is just pretty AGI pill um intelligence is just going to be metered out through compute going to be metered out through compute going to be metered out through compute um then what matters then it's like one um then what matters then it's like one um then what matters then it's like one like your relationship with people and I like your relationship with people and I like your relationship with people and I think looks maxing is like a pretty think looks maxing is like a pretty think looks maxing is like a pretty narrow focus on like you know the narrow focus on like you know the narrow focus on like you know the physical appearance matters and like physical appearance matters and like physical appearance matters and like people like people that look good and people like people that look good and people like people that look good and symmetric and healthy so fine. Um, but I symmetric and healthy so fine. Um, but I symmetric and healthy so fine. Um, but I think it's beyond just looks. It's like think it's beyond just looks. It's like think it's beyond just looks. It's like your vibe, your your ability to just be your vibe, your your ability to just be your vibe, your your ability to just be charismatic and engage with people. So, charismatic and engage with people. So, charismatic and engage with people. So, that's like an important skill set in that's like an important skill set in that's like an important skill set in the future. Can you just have better the future. Can you just have better the future. Can you just have better vibes than everyone else? And I think vibes than everyone else? And I think vibes than everyone else? And I think with venture, right? Like I think I with venture, right? Like I think I with venture, right? Like I think I think what you've done with the media think what you've done with the media think what you've done with the media strategy for Andre Horowitz, I mean you strategy for Andre Horowitz, I mean you strategy for Andre Horowitz, I mean you guys are literally executing on looks guys are literally executing on looks guys are literally executing on looks maxing the VC world essentially, right? maxing the VC world essentially, right? maxing the VC world essentially, right? like you guys have your own propaganda like you guys have your own propaganda like you guys have your own propaganda arm just pushing out your view of the arm just pushing out your view of the arm just pushing out your view of the world. Um, and then the second part is world. Um, and then the second part is world. Um, and then the second part is that like okay, if you don't have maybe that like okay, if you don't have maybe that like okay, if you don't have maybe you're not maxing out on vibes, then you you're not maxing out on vibes, then you you're not maxing out on vibes, then you got to just be best at wielding got to just be best at wielding got to just be best at wielding intelligence. So all you got to do is intelligence. So all you got to do is intelligence. So all you got to do is like play with codecs and be on the like play with codecs and be on the like play with codecs and be on the computer all day long and then on this computer all day long and then on this computer all day long and then on this on the on the other side work out, sleep on the on the other side work out, sleep on the on the other side work out, sleep a lot and look smacks. Then you got a lot and look smacks. Then you got a lot and look smacks. Then you got everything covered. everything covered. everything covered. if you were 22, like just getting out of if you were 22, like just getting out of if you were 22, like just getting out of college today, but in 2026, college today, but in 2026, college today, but in 2026, um what would that look like in terms of um what would that look like in terms of um what would that look like in terms of how you'd want to spend your time? how you'd want to spend your time? how you'd want to spend your time? >> I was we're just we were just stopping >> I was we're just we were just stopping >> I was we're just we were just stopping by Stanford and Jake's going to go back by Stanford and Jake's going to go back by Stanford and Jake's going to go back to college and uh so that might be an to college and uh so that might be an to college and uh so that might be an answer that he can actually think about. answer that he can actually think about. answer that he can actually think about. Um Um Um >> yeah, I want to play on the Stanford >> yeah, I want to play on the Stanford >> yeah, I want to play on the Stanford football team actually. [laughter] football team actually. [laughter] football team actually. [laughter] So, we'll see what happens. So, we'll see what happens. So, we'll see what happens. >> He's going to do uh one year on the >> He's going to do uh one year on the >> He's going to do uh one year on the Stanford team and then get drafted the Stanford team and then get drafted the Stanford team and then get drafted the Cleveland Browns. It's happening. Let's Cleveland Browns. It's happening. Let's Cleveland Browns. It's happening. Let's go. Um go. Um go. Um I'm actually like old school in the I'm actually like old school in the I'm actually like old school in the sense that like and I think I've saw sense that like and I think I've saw sense that like and I think I've saw that earlier in my career where like that earlier in my career where like that earlier in my career where like oh is if computer science and math is oh is if computer science and math is oh is if computer science and math is automated then you don't need to study automated then you don't need to study automated then you don't need to study this stuff and just do like cultural or this stuff and just do like cultural or this stuff and just do like cultural or other fuzzy stuff. Um I would just go other fuzzy stuff. Um I would just go other fuzzy stuff. Um I would just go deeper and deeper into actually deeper and deeper into actually deeper and deeper into actually understanding math, actually understanding math, actually understanding math, actually understanding computer science because understanding computer science because understanding computer science because if you actually know underlying how if you actually know underlying how if you actually know underlying how uh these large language models are uh these large language models are uh these large language models are actually working, you actually can wield actually working, you actually can wield actually working, you actually can wield them and prompt them better. So I'm them and prompt them better. So I'm them and prompt them better. So I'm actually like doubling down that yes, actually like doubling down that yes, actually like doubling down that yes, like get really good at math, get really like get really good at math, get really like get really good at math, get really good at computer science, right? Like good at computer science, right? Like good at computer science, right? Like the people that are leading these the people that are leading these the people that are leading these industries are like math champions, industries are like math champions, industries are like math champions, right? like Scott Woo and all these guys right? like Scott Woo and all these guys right? like Scott Woo and all these guys are just hardcore at that stuff. And you are just hardcore at that stuff. And you are just hardcore at that stuff. And you know, you know, we were hanging out with know, you know, we were hanging out with know, you know, we were hanging out with Scott at at their office a couple months Scott at at their office a couple months Scott at at their office a couple months back. back. back. >> So, you would to get technically >> So, you would to get technically >> So, you would to get technically brilliant. brilliant. brilliant. >> A version of AI like maxing is basically >> A version of AI like maxing is basically >> A version of AI like maxing is basically just max your IQ and max your EQ, right? just max your IQ and max your EQ, right? just max your IQ and max your EQ, right? Like that's another just like a simpler Like that's another just like a simpler Like that's another just like a simpler way to put it. And like looks maxing and way to put it. And like looks maxing and way to put it. And like looks maxing and a maxing are just like the more cult a maxing are just like the more cult a maxing are just like the more cult like currently cultural relevant terms like currently cultural relevant terms like currently cultural relevant terms for it. for it. for it. >> Would you start a company? would you >> Would you start a company? would you >> Would you start a company? would you join anthropic or open AAI or join anthropic or open AAI or join anthropic or open AAI or >> you just got to gang up with the >> you just got to gang up with the >> you just got to gang up with the smartest most ambitious people possible smartest most ambitious people possible smartest most ambitious people possible and that could either be your own and that could either be your own and that could either be your own startup or it could be joining OpenAI. startup or it could be joining OpenAI. startup or it could be joining OpenAI. >> Um and I think but I think the most >> Um and I think but I think the most >> Um and I think but I think the most important thing is like team up with important thing is like team up with important thing is like team up with like-minded ambitious people that will like-minded ambitious people that will like-minded ambitious people that will push you to be the best version of push you to be the best version of push you to be the best version of yourself. So if that's a company then go yourself. So if that's a company then go yourself. So if that's a company then go let's and we'll like Jake and I will let's and we'll like Jake and I will let's and we'll like Jake and I will back you. If it's joining uh OpenAI, back you. If it's joining uh OpenAI, back you. If it's joining uh OpenAI, Cognition, some of these like really Cognition, some of these like really Cognition, some of these like really really high growth companies so you can really high growth companies so you can really high growth companies so you can learn a little bit before you jump into learn a little bit before you jump into learn a little bit before you jump into the deep end yourself, that's also the deep end yourself, that's also the deep end yourself, that's also great. Um, but I think the most great. Um, but I think the most great. Um, but I think the most important thing is just important thing is just important thing is just get with really really smart, ambitious get with really really smart, ambitious get with really really smart, ambitious people and team up and and grow people and team up and and grow people and team up and and grow together. together. together. I'm not technical, so [laughter] I'm not technical, so [laughter] I'm not technical, so [laughter] I think it would be a harder place for I think it would be a harder place for I think it would be a harder place for me, but I think I would uh probably try me, but I think I would uh probably try me, but I think I would uh probably try to be in VC coming out of college. to be in VC coming out of college. to be in VC coming out of college. >> And yeah, hopefully if I made a lot of >> And yeah, hopefully if I made a lot of >> And yeah, hopefully if I made a lot of good connections at Stanford, I [snorts] good connections at Stanford, I [snorts] good connections at Stanford, I [snorts] my buddies that I would seed seed their my buddies that I would seed seed their my buddies that I would seed seed their um genius ideas. But um genius ideas. But um genius ideas. But >> don't cut yourself short. Like we had >> don't cut yourself short. Like we had >> don't cut yourself short. Like we had Jake was on his like MacBook codeexing Jake was on his like MacBook codeexing Jake was on his like MacBook codeexing and and and >> yeah I got my GitHub's popping. >> yeah I got my GitHub's popping. >> yeah I got my GitHub's popping. [laughter] So [laughter] So [laughter] So >> go find that GitHub. I want track his >> go find that GitHub. I want track his >> go find that GitHub. I want track his his his commits. Well, I was gonna ask his his commits. Well, I was gonna ask his his commits. Well, I was gonna ask if you were 22 today in 2026 or 18 even, if you were 22 today in 2026 or 18 even, if you were 22 today in 2026 or 18 even, could you run the same playbook or is could you run the same playbook or is could you run the same playbook or is there something about what you did um there something about what you did um there something about what you did um you know on YouTube or or sort of these you know on YouTube or or sort of these you know on YouTube or or sort of these new platforms when you were younger that new platforms when you were younger that new platforms when you were younger that is like wouldn't work in the same way is like wouldn't work in the same way is like wouldn't work in the same way today and you'd have to find a new like today and you'd have to find a new like today and you'd have to find a new like to me to me it's obvious you know boxing to me to me it's obvious you know boxing to me to me it's obvious you know boxing you just got to be the best in the you just got to be the best in the you just got to be the best in the world. You got to beat the other person. world. You got to beat the other person. world. You got to beat the other person. But in terms of what works on sort of But in terms of what works on sort of But in terms of what works on sort of the creator space it doesn't seem to be the creator space it doesn't seem to be the creator space it doesn't seem to be as an outsider as obvious. And so I'm as an outsider as obvious. And so I'm as an outsider as obvious. And so I'm curious if the same kind of media curious if the same kind of media curious if the same kind of media playbook would have worked, you know, playbook would have worked, you know, playbook would have worked, you know, 10, 15 years later or 10, 15 years later or 10, 15 years later or >> it's No, I mean I I I don't think it >> it's No, I mean I I I don't think it >> it's No, I mean I I I don't think it would. I think there's very few um you would. I think there's very few um you would. I think there's very few um you know, people breaking through on the know, people breaking through on the know, people breaking through on the media side of things. It's a lot harder media side of things. It's a lot harder media side of things. It's a lot harder to grow, a lot harder to amass a to grow, a lot harder to amass a to grow, a lot harder to amass a following and to be a known brand and to following and to be a known brand and to following and to be a known brand and to rise to the top. You know, you kind of rise to the top. You know, you kind of rise to the top. You know, you kind of had to be there from the start. And had to be there from the start. And had to be there from the start. And that's why you really see with brands that's why you really see with brands that's why you really see with brands that have stuck around that have stuck around that have stuck around at the highest level in social media, at the highest level in social media, at the highest level in social media, it's me, Mr. Beast, and my brother, and it's me, Mr. Beast, and my brother, and it's me, Mr. Beast, and my brother, and there's there's there's really no one else. Um, and what was really no one else. Um, and what was really no one else. Um, and what was your for people who are not as familiar, your for people who are not as familiar, your for people who are not as familiar, like what was your insight in terms like like what was your insight in terms like like what was your insight in terms like what were you doing that was so new or what were you doing that was so new or what were you doing that was so new or that that amassed such an audience so that that amassed such an audience so that that amassed such an audience so quickly? quickly? quickly? Yeah, I think um a lot of it was Yeah, I think um a lot of it was Yeah, I think um a lot of it was I mean I think you just have to be I mean I think you just have to be I mean I think you just have to be entertaining and I me and my brother entertaining and I me and my brother entertaining and I me and my brother were doing that posting every single day were doing that posting every single day were doing that posting every single day like 15minute videos that were that took like 15minute videos that were that took like 15minute videos that were that took the whole day to film. So just effort the whole day to film. So just effort the whole day to film. So just effort first and foremost the entertainment in first and foremost the entertainment in first and foremost the entertainment in it. Um and then I think it. Um and then I think it. Um and then I think diversifying with like characters. So, I diversifying with like characters. So, I diversifying with like characters. So, I basically created like a daily reality basically created like a daily reality basically created like a daily reality show with all of these people on it and show with all of these people on it and show with all of these people on it and all these crazy things happening and all these crazy things happening and all these crazy things happening and that was cutting edge at the time. Um, that was cutting edge at the time. Um, that was cutting edge at the time. Um, and then just always being the visionary and then just always being the visionary and then just always being the visionary of like what's working, what trends, you of like what's working, what trends, you of like what's working, what trends, you know, okay, let's make a rap song and know, okay, let's make a rap song and know, okay, let's make a rap song and then all of a sudden it's like one of then all of a sudden it's like one of then all of a sudden it's like one of the generational anthems of this of, you the generational anthems of this of, you the generational anthems of this of, you know, younger kids know every single know, younger kids know every single know, younger kids know every single word of it. It's like, oh, the music word of it. It's like, oh, the music word of it. It's like, oh, the music worked. Okay, let's make more songs. worked. Okay, let's make more songs. worked. Okay, let's make more songs. Let's make a whole album. Let's make a Let's make a whole album. Let's make a Let's make a whole album. Let's make a Christmas album. Um, so constantly just Christmas album. Um, so constantly just Christmas album. Um, so constantly just like like like bits of iteration, but bits of iteration, but bits of iteration, but you know, spanning the full spectrum of you know, spanning the full spectrum of you know, spanning the full spectrum of entertainment. So it was like songs, entertainment. So it was like songs, entertainment. So it was like songs, comedy, I would make like scary videos comedy, I would make like scary videos comedy, I would make like scary videos to, you know, have the fear aspect of to, you know, have the fear aspect of to, you know, have the fear aspect of it. Then all of a sudden I'm going into it. Then all of a sudden I'm going into it. Then all of a sudden I'm going into athleticism which is boxing and that athleticism which is boxing and that athleticism which is boxing and that whole side of entertainment as well. And whole side of entertainment as well. And whole side of entertainment as well. And so I think the modernday so I think the modernday so I think the modernday entertainers entertainers entertainers have to do it all. We went to Mr. have to do it all. We went to Mr. have to do it all. We went to Mr. Beast's um sort of place in North Beast's um sort of place in North Beast's um sort of place in North Carolina, Jimmy's place rather, and he Carolina, Jimmy's place rather, and he Carolina, Jimmy's place rather, and he uh sort of gave us a tour and he was uh sort of gave us a tour and he was uh sort of gave us a tour and he was showing how just analytical the whole showing how just analytical the whole showing how just analytical the whole operation is. Yeah. operation is. Yeah. operation is. Yeah. >> Was much yours was much more kind of >> Was much yours was much more kind of >> Was much yours was much more kind of artistic or creative or emergent in artistic or creative or emergent in artistic or creative or emergent in terms of like oh let's just [ __ ] around terms of like oh let's just [ __ ] around terms of like oh let's just [ __ ] around and find out or like how did you and find out or like how did you and find out or like how did you [snorts] in terms of like what to spend [snorts] in terms of like what to spend [snorts] in terms of like what to spend time on what what to do in comparison to time on what what to do in comparison to time on what what to do in comparison to something a beast operation. Yeah, I something a beast operation. Yeah, I something a beast operation. Yeah, I think um it's it's similar, but I think think um it's it's similar, but I think think um it's it's similar, but I think Jimmy is like a numbers guy and is super Jimmy is like a numbers guy and is super Jimmy is like a numbers guy and is super analytical. And uh mine is definitely analytical. And uh mine is definitely analytical. And uh mine is definitely analytical, but not at the level that analytical, but not at the level that analytical, but not at the level that Jimmy is with with how he does things. Jimmy is with with how he does things. Jimmy is with with how he does things. And uh mine is more creative, like And uh mine is more creative, like And uh mine is more creative, like entertainment focused and just like kind entertainment focused and just like kind entertainment focused and just like kind of like a feeling thing like you're of like a feeling thing like you're of like a feeling thing like you're saying. Uh, but that's why, you know, saying. Uh, but that's why, you know, saying. Uh, but that's why, you know, Jimmy just maxed out the numbers on on Jimmy just maxed out the numbers on on Jimmy just maxed out the numbers on on YouTube and just did every little thing YouTube and just did every little thing YouTube and just did every little thing possible to possible to possible to hack the algorithm. It It's interesting hack the algorithm. It It's interesting hack the algorithm. It It's interesting because there are a lot of people who because there are a lot of people who because there are a lot of people who will get big but not be super durable, will get big but not be super durable, will get big but not be super durable, whereas you you just mentioned you and whereas you you just mentioned you and whereas you you just mentioned you and your brother and and Jimmy is the ones your brother and and Jimmy is the ones your brother and and Jimmy is the ones that really struck out. And so I'm that really struck out. And so I'm that really struck out. And so I'm curious why some people get big for a curious why some people get big for a curious why some people get big for a period of time, but and I'll hear hear period of time, but and I'll hear hear period of time, but and I'll hear hear about them. They'll be on TikTok, be on about them. They'll be on TikTok, be on about them. They'll be on TikTok, be on some platform, but I I don't hear about some platform, but I I don't hear about some platform, but I I don't hear about them years later. Like it's them years later. Like it's them years later. Like it's Yeah, I've seen the the biggest stars in Yeah, I've seen the the biggest stars in Yeah, I've seen the the biggest stars in the space from like day one just not the space from like day one just not the space from like day one just not stick around anymore. It's weird. It's stick around anymore. It's weird. It's stick around anymore. It's weird. It's really weird. There's a group called really weird. There's a group called really weird. There's a group called Magcon back in the day. They were like Magcon back in the day. They were like Magcon back in the day. They were like the Justin Bers of the internet world. the Justin Bers of the internet world. the Justin Bers of the internet world. And actually Shawn Mendes like spun out And actually Shawn Mendes like spun out And actually Shawn Mendes like spun out of there. He was the one that's like of there. He was the one that's like of there. He was the one that's like obviously made it really big. But it's obviously made it really big. But it's obviously made it really big. But it's just interesting. I think people maybe just interesting. I think people maybe just interesting. I think people maybe don't have that resiliency. they get don't have that resiliency. they get don't have that resiliency. they get tired of working or making content or tired of working or making content or tired of working or making content or going to the new platform or, you know, going to the new platform or, you know, going to the new platform or, you know, lose motivation, lose motivation, lose motivation, whatever it might be. And I think the whatever it might be. And I think the whatever it might be. And I think the people who are like truly destined to do people who are like truly destined to do people who are like truly destined to do this and love doing it um and that are this and love doing it um and that are this and love doing it um and that are talented at it are the ones that have talented at it are the ones that have talented at it are the ones that have lasted longer. lasted longer. lasted longer. And I think you And I think you And I think you almost have to um yeah diversify like almost have to um yeah diversify like almost have to um yeah diversify like we've gotten into politics, business, we've gotten into politics, business, we've gotten into politics, business, growing brands. And so you start to have growing brands. And so you start to have growing brands. And so you start to have this audience um this audience um this audience um that follows you for multiple different that follows you for multiple different that follows you for multiple different things. Some people love my ranch things. Some people love my ranch things. Some people love my ranch YouTube videos and like only know about YouTube videos and like only know about YouTube videos and like only know about that and don't even But I also have I'm that and don't even But I also have I'm that and don't even But I also have I'm on a A16Z on a A16Z on a A16Z podcast where like now people in the podcast where like now people in the podcast where like now people in the tech world are hearing about what I'm tech world are hearing about what I'm tech world are hearing about what I'm doing but they probably won't watch my doing but they probably won't watch my doing but they probably won't watch my Tik Toks. So I'm doing all these Tik Toks. So I'm doing all these Tik Toks. So I'm doing all these different things and growing audiences different things and growing audiences different things and growing audiences in all of these different worlds. And um in all of these different worlds. And um in all of these different worlds. And um I think that's been the key. And then I I think that's been the key. And then I I think that's been the key. And then I think also knowing how to monetize it think also knowing how to monetize it think also knowing how to monetize it and make money. And I think that's been and make money. And I think that's been and make money. And I think that's been a reason for us to continue to exist a reason for us to continue to exist a reason for us to continue to exist because I think a lot of people because I think a lot of people because I think a lot of people in the space don't know how to actually in the space don't know how to actually in the space don't know how to actually pull cash out. They could have a lot of pull cash out. They could have a lot of pull cash out. They could have a lot of followers but not the cash and you cash followers but not the cash and you cash followers but not the cash and you cash is king. So I think that's been another is king. So I think that's been another is king. So I think that's been another uh very important reason for the I don't uh very important reason for the I don't uh very important reason for the I don't even know 13 14 years of being at the even know 13 14 years of being at the even know 13 14 years of being at the top of the influencer game. top of the influencer game. top of the influencer game. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I I think to me Jake is a startup in it >> I I think to me Jake is a startup in it >> I I think to me Jake is a startup in it of himself and in startup land right of himself and in startup land right of himself and in startup land right it's all power law it's all power law it's all power law >> and I think essentially >> and I think essentially >> and I think essentially Jake has hit escape velocity. So, I Jake has hit escape velocity. So, I Jake has hit escape velocity. So, I think I think Jake gets even more think I think Jake gets even more think I think Jake gets even more powerful in this new era of AI generated powerful in this new era of AI generated powerful in this new era of AI generated characters and and just infinite noise characters and and just infinite noise characters and and just infinite noise because you'll have a lot of AI because you'll have a lot of AI because you'll have a lot of AI generated content and the people that generated content and the people that generated content and the people that you grew up watching, loving and just you grew up watching, loving and just you grew up watching, loving and just supporting or hating as as a child and supporting or hating as as a child and supporting or hating as as a child and like that generation is now going to like that generation is now going to like that generation is now going to take over from the boomers who are going take over from the boomers who are going take over from the boomers who are going to be dying off and all of that. Um, to be dying off and all of that. Um, to be dying off and all of that. Um, I think you compound just like in OpenAI I think you compound just like in OpenAI I think you compound just like in OpenAI and Enthropic are compounding even and Enthropic are compounding even and Enthropic are compounding even faster. So that's sort of like I'm just faster. So that's sort of like I'm just faster. So that's sort of like I'm just kind of excited just on the on the path kind of excited just on the on the path kind of excited just on the on the path forward because it's basically like forward because it's basically like forward because it's basically like celebrity survivor battle, right? Like celebrity survivor battle, right? Like celebrity survivor battle, right? Like literally everyone has died off except literally everyone has died off except literally everyone has died off except for like the predestined few. And I for like the predestined few. And I for like the predestined few. And I think the predestined feud literally think the predestined feud literally think the predestined feud literally should be like the future billionaire should be like the future billionaire should be like the future billionaire trillionaires if you just extrapolate trillionaires if you just extrapolate trillionaires if you just extrapolate out that exponential because there's out that exponential because there's out that exponential because there's going to be fewer real people that like going to be fewer real people that like going to be fewer real people that like you like care about. you like care about. you like care about. >> And I think where I would almost like >> And I think where I would almost like >> And I think where I would almost like juxtapose Jake and Logan with like a Mr. juxtapose Jake and Logan with like a Mr. juxtapose Jake and Logan with like a Mr. Beast and I don't I mean whatever I'll Beast and I don't I mean whatever I'll Beast and I don't I mean whatever I'll just I'll just say it is like I feel just I'll just say it is like I feel just I'll just say it is like I feel like Mr. Beast is like so quantitative like Mr. Beast is like so quantitative like Mr. Beast is like so quantitative and analytical that it doesn't matter if and analytical that it doesn't matter if and analytical that it doesn't matter if Jimmy's in a video or not. Like swap him Jimmy's in a video or not. Like swap him Jimmy's in a video or not. Like swap him out for another, you know, game show out for another, you know, game show out for another, you know, game show host. Maybe they're not as smooth, but I host. Maybe they're not as smooth, but I host. Maybe they're not as smooth, but I don't think Jimmy would say that he's don't think Jimmy would say that he's don't think Jimmy would say that he's even that smooth of a natural like actor even that smooth of a natural like actor even that smooth of a natural like actor or character, or character, or character, but like his analytics and his taste in but like his analytics and his taste in but like his analytics and his taste in terms of selecting the content format is terms of selecting the content format is terms of selecting the content format is very very strong. where I think Jake has very very strong. where I think Jake has very very strong. where I think Jake has a lot of durability is that like you you a lot of durability is that like you you a lot of durability is that like you you like follow his story. Like you I guess like follow his story. Like you I guess like follow his story. Like you I guess like one way I think about it is that like one way I think about it is that like one way I think about it is that like if Jake can just talk and get a like if Jake can just talk and get a like if Jake can just talk and get a bunch of views or just live his life and bunch of views or just live his life and bunch of views or just live his life and get a bunch of views and someone has to get a bunch of views and someone has to get a bunch of views and someone has to light $100 million on fire to get a light $100 million on fire to get a light $100 million on fire to get a bunch of views, who do I want to be bunch of views, who do I want to be bunch of views, who do I want to be partners with? Who do who do I think has partners with? Who do who do I think has partners with? Who do who do I think has true skill and true charisma true skill and true charisma true skill and true charisma um without overly calling other people? um without overly calling other people? um without overly calling other people? But like I think that is like a measure But like I think that is like a measure But like I think that is like a measure in terms of like how do you take like an in terms of like how do you take like an in terms of like how do you take like an analytical lens and like a structural analytical lens and like a structural analytical lens and like a structural lens to how do you backward engineer lens to how do you backward engineer lens to how do you backward engineer what has Jake has been able to what has Jake has been able to what has Jake has been able to accomplish accomplish accomplish >> to that end you you said you know c >> to that end you you said you know c >> to that end you you said you know c people you need to figure out how to people you need to figure out how to people you need to figure out how to monetize how have you figured out what's monetize how have you figured out what's monetize how have you figured out what's worth doing from a business perspective worth doing from a business perspective worth doing from a business perspective of what's not worth doing like for of what's not worth doing like for of what's not worth doing like for example um I I don't know if you've been example um I I don't know if you've been example um I I don't know if you've been in feature films yet or had major major in feature films yet or had major major in feature films yet or had major major roles like should you be doing that or roles like should you be doing that or roles like should you be doing that or is that a waste of time like there's a is that a waste of time like there's a is that a waste of time like there's a whole set of activities that where you whole set of activities that where you whole set of activities that where you could do it you'd have some special could do it you'd have some special could do it you'd have some special access or opportunity to do it. People access or opportunity to do it. People access or opportunity to do it. People might be telling you you should do it. might be telling you you should do it. might be telling you you should do it. How how do you think about that? How how do you think about that? How how do you think about that? >> That's something that we've talked about >> That's something that we've talked about >> That's something that we've talked about and explored. There's been opportunities and explored. There's been opportunities and explored. There's been opportunities on the table to act, for example. But I on the table to act, for example. But I on the table to act, for example. But I think it's just like what was the time think it's just like what was the time think it's just like what was the time expenditure, expenditure, expenditure, what was the like return in terms of, what was the like return in terms of, what was the like return in terms of, you know, how much money are we making you know, how much money are we making you know, how much money are we making here? And then who are the people here? And then who are the people here? And then who are the people involved and is it going to perform involved and is it going to perform involved and is it going to perform well? And do we like this script? And um well? And do we like this script? And um well? And do we like this script? And um there's the risk of of something going there's the risk of of something going there's the risk of of something going wrong. and just like it flops at the box wrong. and just like it flops at the box wrong. and just like it flops at the box office and everyone shits on you. Like office and everyone shits on you. Like office and everyone shits on you. Like it happens all the time. So I think it's it happens all the time. So I think it's it happens all the time. So I think it's yeah just staying focused right like yeah just staying focused right like yeah just staying focused right like having the having the having the boxing as the core of of everything for boxing as the core of of everything for boxing as the core of of everything for many years and um and content and so many years and um and content and so many years and um and content and so never getting away from your bread and never getting away from your bread and never getting away from your bread and butter and staying extremely focused on butter and staying extremely focused on butter and staying extremely focused on that and having a great teams around to that and having a great teams around to that and having a great teams around to to help with all of those things. Um, to help with all of those things. Um, to help with all of those things. Um, but but but yeah, I think things now have to be like yeah, I think things now have to be like yeah, I think things now have to be like 10, 20, 30 million dollar opportunities 10, 20, 30 million dollar opportunities 10, 20, 30 million dollar opportunities for me to spend time on it. And so I for me to spend time on it. And so I for me to spend time on it. And so I think it's pretty measurable think it's pretty measurable think it's pretty measurable um from that side of things to the, you um from that side of things to the, you um from that side of things to the, you know, figure out if if it's exciting in know, figure out if if it's exciting in know, figure out if if it's exciting in that sense. Um, and then I think just on that sense. Um, and then I think just on that sense. Um, and then I think just on the besides the money thing and just the besides the money thing and just the besides the money thing and just brand building, I've just been doing it brand building, I've just been doing it brand building, I've just been doing it for so long that it's just like for so long that it's just like for so long that it's just like instinctual like is this a good idea? instinctual like is this a good idea? instinctual like is this a good idea? Yes or no? And it's pretty pretty Yes or no? And it's pretty pretty Yes or no? And it's pretty pretty obvious, but there are strategy talks obvious, but there are strategy talks obvious, but there are strategy talks and highlevel people that huddle around and highlevel people that huddle around and highlevel people that huddle around the board and um sometimes I'll film a the board and um sometimes I'll film a the board and um sometimes I'll film a piece of content and piece of content and piece of content and maybe not post it because it doesn't maybe not post it because it doesn't maybe not post it because it doesn't make sense. So there is like processes make sense. So there is like processes make sense. So there is like processes and teams that look at everything and and teams that look at everything and and teams that look at everything and conversations and it it is pretty conversations and it it is pretty conversations and it it is pretty strategic, but a lot of it also is just strategic, but a lot of it also is just strategic, but a lot of it also is just like instinctual and on the fly and it like instinctual and on the fly and it like instinctual and on the fly and it becomes more and more obvious as time becomes more and more obvious as time becomes more and more obvious as time goes on what the good opportunities are. goes on what the good opportunities are. goes on what the good opportunities are. And is is all good press good press or And is is all good press good press or And is is all good press good press or or or sorry is all all press good press or or sorry is all all press good press or or sorry is all all press good press or most attention good attention or when or most attention good attention or when or most attention good attention or when you look at some of the controversial you look at some of the controversial you look at some of the controversial moments that you guys have been through moments that you guys have been through moments that you guys have been through or that you see other people in through or that you see other people in through or that you see other people in through do you think that they have been do you think that they have been do you think that they have been successful in spite of those moments or successful in spite of those moments or successful in spite of those moments or because of the instinct that led to because of the instinct that led to because of the instinct that led to those moments or how do you think about those moments or how do you think about those moments or how do you think about in this new era of attention um yeah in this new era of attention um yeah in this new era of attention um yeah this question this question this question >> I would say that not all press is good >> I would say that not all press is good >> I would say that not all press is good press um for certain people for me. Yes. press um for certain people for me. Yes. press um for certain people for me. Yes. Because I can like survive it and like Because I can like survive it and like Because I can like survive it and like >> you're anti-fragile. >> you're anti-fragile. >> you're anti-fragile. >> Yeah. And just it's it's you know what >> Yeah. And just it's it's you know what >> Yeah. And just it's it's you know what are they going to say? Like the my are they going to say? Like the my are they going to say? Like the my neighbor like the first reason I was neighbor like the first reason I was neighbor like the first reason I was hated from the very beginning like on a hated from the very beginning like on a hated from the very beginning like on a ma in the mainstream was because I ma in the mainstream was because I ma in the mainstream was because I jumped on top of a news van. So it's jumped on top of a news van. So it's jumped on top of a news van. So it's like that that's seriously why people like that that's seriously why people like that that's seriously why people started hating me. They're like look at started hating me. They're like look at started hating me. They're like look at this douchebag. And I was like making this douchebag. And I was like making this douchebag. And I was like making fun of the news reporter's shoes. And fun of the news reporter's shoes. And fun of the news reporter's shoes. And it's like, okay, like it seemed like bad it's like, okay, like it seemed like bad it's like, okay, like it seemed like bad press at the time, but like that was press at the time, but like that was press at the time, but like that was like my first like mainstream moment like my first like mainstream moment like my first like mainstream moment really um in the in the press. And so um really um in the in the press. And so um really um in the in the press. And so um I think for certain people all press is I think for certain people all press is I think for certain people all press is good press, but I don't think it's a good press, but I don't think it's a good press, but I don't think it's a saying that is good for for everybody saying that is good for for everybody saying that is good for for everybody and holds true for everybody. and holds true for everybody. and holds true for everybody. >> Everything you do has risk. Just don't >> Everything you do has risk. Just don't >> Everything you do has risk. Just don't take fatal risk. like just don't get take fatal risk. like just don't get take fatal risk. like just don't get yourself killed and probably and don't yourself killed and probably and don't yourself killed and probably and don't go to jail though people have come back go to jail though people have come back go to jail though people have come back from that but like don't go to jail from that but like don't go to jail from that but like don't go to jail don't die and as long as you take risks don't die and as long as you take risks don't die and as long as you take risks and calculated bets and keep compounding and calculated bets and keep compounding and calculated bets and keep compounding you'll eventually end up somewhere good you'll eventually end up somewhere good you'll eventually end up somewhere good so I think that's like my take on that so I think that's like my take on that so I think that's like my take on that on that question which is that like I on that question which is that like I on that question which is that like I think most people are just too afraid to think most people are just too afraid to think most people are just too afraid to do anything that even warrants press so do anything that even warrants press so do anything that even warrants press so so like I think when you're already have so like I think when you're already have so like I think when you're already have a platform form then yes maybe you can a platform form then yes maybe you can a platform form then yes maybe you can be a little bit more cautious but most be a little bit more cautious but most be a little bit more cautious but most people are just totally irrelevant like people are just totally irrelevant like people are just totally irrelevant like you need to do something a little bit you need to do something a little bit you need to do something a little bit risky to even get to a place to be risky to even get to a place to be risky to even get to a place to be cancelable. Most people can't even be cancelable. Most people can't even be cancelable. Most people can't even be cancelled because you didn't exist. cancelled because you didn't exist. cancelled because you didn't exist. [snorts] So the general advice like yo [snorts] So the general advice like yo [snorts] So the general advice like yo just live more and do more [ __ ] in just live more and do more [ __ ] in just live more and do more [ __ ] in general cuz general cuz general cuz you're nothing and you maybe can get out you're nothing and you maybe can get out you're nothing and you maybe can get out of nothing. of nothing. of nothing. >> [ __ ] Max. >> [ __ ] Max. >> [ __ ] Max. >> Yeah. Another way [ __ ] max is is is >> Yeah. Another way [ __ ] max is is is >> Yeah. Another way [ __ ] max is is is cool too. Yeah. [laughter] cool too. Yeah. [laughter] cool too. Yeah. [laughter] the um I want to understand this new the um I want to understand this new the um I want to understand this new media environment by analyzing a couple media environment by analyzing a couple media environment by analyzing a couple people. Can you guys explain people. Can you guys explain people. Can you guys explain clvicular as in why is what's his clvicular as in why is what's his clvicular as in why is what's his talent? What makes him so successful? talent? What makes him so successful? talent? What makes him so successful? What advice might you have for for for What advice might you have for for for What advice might you have for for for someone like that? Um how do you make someone like that? Um how do you make someone like that? Um how do you make sense of it? I mean sense of it? I mean sense of it? I mean >> I mean kind of what you just said, what >> I mean kind of what you just said, what >> I mean kind of what you just said, what Jeff just said is and he's doing it on Jeff just said is and he's doing it on Jeff just said is and he's doing it on the on the highest level. the on the highest level. the on the highest level. >> It's entertaining. I think I've I've had >> It's entertaining. I think I've I've had >> It's entertaining. I think I've I've had this saying that um I've used and I this saying that um I've used and I this saying that um I've used and I think it holds true in the world of think it holds true in the world of think it holds true in the world of entertainment is that people want to see entertainment is that people want to see entertainment is that people want to see something they've never seen before. And something they've never seen before. And something they've never seen before. And so it's so new and fresh and different so it's so new and fresh and different so it's so new and fresh and different and kind of crazy, but a lot of the and kind of crazy, but a lot of the and kind of crazy, but a lot of the stuff he says is true. His delivery stuff he says is true. His delivery stuff he says is true. His delivery isn't always the the best or whatever. isn't always the the best or whatever. isn't always the the best or whatever. And he is like very abrasive. It doesn't And he is like very abrasive. It doesn't And he is like very abrasive. It doesn't care. but he's talking about a lot of care. but he's talking about a lot of care. but he's talking about a lot of relevant things and everything relevant things and everything relevant things and everything is out there about him so you fully know is out there about him so you fully know is out there about him so you fully know him and he's not afraid to be fully him and he's not afraid to be fully him and he's not afraid to be fully authentic and say exactly authentic and say exactly authentic and say exactly uh expose himself to the world and I uh expose himself to the world and I uh expose himself to the world and I don't think people have done that and don't think people have done that and don't think people have done that and and that's why I think he's he's been and that's why I think he's he's been and that's why I think he's he's been successful and then he's also doing successful and then he's also doing successful and then he's also doing things that generate bad press but it things that generate bad press but it things that generate bad press but it you know good news travels fast news you know good news travels fast news you know good news travels fast news travels faster So, it's growing his travels faster So, it's growing his travels faster So, it's growing his brand like wildfire and then it just brand like wildfire and then it just brand like wildfire and then it just turns into this like loop and he's able turns into this like loop and he's able turns into this like loop and he's able to convert it actually into views and to convert it actually into views and to convert it actually into views and then he he keeps on going and all of then he he keeps on going and all of then he he keeps on going and all of that. Um, but I yeah, it it is it is that. Um, but I yeah, it it is it is that. Um, but I yeah, it it is it is pretty wild and um I think the streaming pretty wild and um I think the streaming pretty wild and um I think the streaming culture is like really interesting and culture is like really interesting and culture is like really interesting and probably not the best for society probably not the best for society probably not the best for society because like there's so many of these because like there's so many of these because like there's so many of these kids watching and I actually feel like kids watching and I actually feel like kids watching and I actually feel like what I was doing on YouTube like this is what I was doing on YouTube like this is what I was doing on YouTube like this is the final iteration of it and um I feel the final iteration of it and um I feel the final iteration of it and um I feel bad for like sort of contributing to bad for like sort of contributing to bad for like sort of contributing to where this has gone but at At the time I where this has gone but at At the time I where this has gone but at At the time I like never thought of that or like okay like never thought of that or like okay like never thought of that or like okay I set the bar here as crazy and now I set the bar here as crazy and now I set the bar here as crazy and now people have the streamers have to do it people have the streamers have to do it people have the streamers have to do it every day for multiple hours and to keep every day for multiple hours and to keep every day for multiple hours and to keep people's attention they're having to people's attention they're having to people's attention they're having to like do out of pocket [ __ ] Um which I like do out of pocket [ __ ] Um which I like do out of pocket [ __ ] Um which I don't think is like a good influence. don't think is like a good influence. don't think is like a good influence. Um but Um but Um but there's obviously it's entertaining. So, there's obviously it's entertaining. So, there's obviously it's entertaining. So, >> and just to for people not as familiar, >> and just to for people not as familiar, >> and just to for people not as familiar, my understanding from my limited, you my understanding from my limited, you my understanding from my limited, you know, observations is he some of his know, observations is he some of his know, observations is he some of his content is well, he's a streamer and content is well, he's a streamer and content is well, he's a streamer and some of his content is him like going to some of his content is him like going to some of his content is him like going to the club and talking to girls and having the club and talking to girls and having the club and talking to girls and having very sort of humorous conversations and very sort of humorous conversations and very sort of humorous conversations and then some content is sort of focused on then some content is sort of focused on then some content is sort of focused on his looks maxing journey and just giving his looks maxing journey and just giving his looks maxing journey and just giving a lot of advice and doing interviews and a lot of advice and doing interviews and a lot of advice and doing interviews and kind of saying, you know, sort of out of kind of saying, you know, sort of out of kind of saying, you know, sort of out of pocket uh you sort of [ __ ] to your your pocket uh you sort of [ __ ] to your your pocket uh you sort of [ __ ] to your your term around sort of um relationships or term around sort of um relationships or term around sort of um relationships or gender norms. forms or just sort of like gender norms. forms or just sort of like gender norms. forms or just sort of like you know um how to look much better um you know um how to look much better um you know um how to look much better um so much to the extent he's he's invested so much to the extent he's he's invested so much to the extent he's he's invested so much that there was rumors for a so much that there was rumors for a so much that there was rumors for a while that he may be um not able to have while that he may be um not able to have while that he may be um not able to have conceive or something that he may have conceive or something that he may have conceive or something that he may have um but I think that's no longer true I um but I think that's no longer true I um but I think that's no longer true I can't remember exactly is is that can't remember exactly is is that can't remember exactly is is that accurate summary of what like what is accurate summary of what like what is accurate summary of what like what is doing doing doing >> yeah I would say that's accurate with >> yeah I would say that's accurate with >> yeah I would say that's accurate with the noting like um the noting like um the noting like um yeah he's definitely like very yeah he's definitely like very yeah he's definitely like very controversial and like taking drugs controversial and like taking drugs controversial and like taking drugs >> on the stream and doing pretty crazy >> on the stream and doing pretty crazy >> on the stream and doing pretty crazy things like that. So, yeah. things like that. So, yeah. things like that. So, yeah. >> Yeah, he spent I mean he spent some time >> Yeah, he spent I mean he spent some time >> Yeah, he spent I mean he spent some time like he he he like joined Jake's first like he he he like joined Jake's first like he he he like joined Jake's first live stream ever. Like what was he like live stream ever. Like what was he like live stream ever. Like what was he like in person? Like in person? Like in person? Like >> I thought he was nice. Yeah. >> I thought he was nice. Yeah. >> I thought he was nice. Yeah. >> Thought he was a nice guy. >> Thought he was a nice guy. >> Thought he was a nice guy. Definitely pretty wild on his stream Definitely pretty wild on his stream Definitely pretty wild on his stream though. And and I'm wild, you know, as though. And and I'm wild, you know, as though. And and I'm wild, you know, as entertainer known as that. I can turn entertainer known as that. I can turn entertainer known as that. I can turn that on. But yeah, so if I like am that on. But yeah, so if I like am that on. But yeah, so if I like am saying that then it's probably pretty saying that then it's probably pretty saying that then it's probably pretty pretty wild. pretty wild. pretty wild. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is um streamer culture today you when >> Is um streamer culture today you when >> Is um streamer culture today you when you say you were sort of the previous you say you were sort of the previous you say you were sort of the previous evolution where do you see it all going? evolution where do you see it all going? evolution where do you see it all going? Yeah. Is it just going to get crazier Yeah. Is it just going to get crazier Yeah. Is it just going to get crazier and crazier? Are we going to sort of see and crazier? Are we going to sort of see and crazier? Are we going to sort of see new formats or how do you sort of new formats or how do you sort of new formats or how do you sort of envision the future of kind of like what envision the future of kind of like what envision the future of kind of like what you you know help helped create? Yeah, I you you know help helped create? Yeah, I you you know help helped create? Yeah, I think think think we will see new formats and people pop we will see new formats and people pop we will see new formats and people pop up that are unique and different, but I up that are unique and different, but I up that are unique and different, but I I think that the players that are in it I think that the players that are in it I think that the players that are in it now and are the biggest now will likely now and are the biggest now will likely now and are the biggest now will likely remain the biggest. Um, and so I don't remain the biggest. Um, and so I don't remain the biggest. Um, and so I don't think it'll shift too much in terms of think it'll shift too much in terms of think it'll shift too much in terms of like all the personalities, but I do like all the personalities, but I do like all the personalities, but I do think things will get crazy, slightly think things will get crazy, slightly think things will get crazy, slightly crazier. Um, but I it's probably already crazier. Um, but I it's probably already crazier. Um, but I it's probably already near its peak because the platforms now near its peak because the platforms now near its peak because the platforms now like aren't allowing th certain things like aren't allowing th certain things like aren't allowing th certain things to be streamed and they're already to be streamed and they're already to be streamed and they're already getting like, getting like, getting like, >> you know, deplatformed if they do >> you know, deplatformed if they do >> you know, deplatformed if they do certain things. So, I think it's certain things. So, I think it's certain things. So, I think it's probably probably probably uh at its at its peak right now with uh at its at its peak right now with uh at its at its peak right now with some of the things that are going on. some of the things that are going on. some of the things that are going on. >> I mean, talking about like you can't >> I mean, talking about like you can't >> I mean, talking about like you can't die, you can't go to jail, right? like die, you can't go to jail, right? like die, you can't go to jail, right? like at some point someone's going to step on at some point someone's going to step on at some point someone's going to step on that and boom, you peak you that the end that and boom, you peak you that the end that and boom, you peak you that the end end game of that. end game of that. end game of that. >> Yeah. I recently learned that there's >> Yeah. I recently learned that there's >> Yeah. I recently learned that there's like uh that kick is like a Twitch but like uh that kick is like a Twitch but like uh that kick is like a Twitch but more edgy. Um but then there's like more edgy. Um but then there's like more edgy. Um but then there's like Rumble is like a even more edgy version Rumble is like a even more edgy version Rumble is like a even more edgy version of that. There's just like different of that. There's just like different of that. There's just like different streaming platforms for different levels streaming platforms for different levels streaming platforms for different levels of edgginess. of edgginess. of edgginess. >> Yeah, exactly. Um to to to your point um >> Yeah, exactly. Um to to to your point um >> Yeah, exactly. Um to to to your point um which is going to the controversy point which is going to the controversy point which is going to the controversy point for like when you look at some of the for like when you look at some of the for like when you look at some of the stuff that's been like the hardest for stuff that's been like the hardest for stuff that's been like the hardest for for you to handle or the biggest for you to handle or the biggest for you to handle or the biggest controversial moments or when other controversial moments or when other controversial moments or when other people come to you and like holy [ __ ] people come to you and like holy [ __ ] people come to you and like holy [ __ ] I'm in this you know massive scandal or I'm in this you know massive scandal or I'm in this you know massive scandal or something. How do you how have you like something. How do you how have you like something. How do you how have you like bounced back from that or how do you bounced back from that or how do you bounced back from that or how do you advise people to bounce back from just advise people to bounce back from just advise people to bounce back from just like the toughest where you're like like the toughest where you're like like the toughest where you're like people actually trying to cancel you and people actually trying to cancel you and people actually trying to cancel you and they're succeeding a little bit? Yeah, I they're succeeding a little bit? Yeah, I they're succeeding a little bit? Yeah, I think think think faith and God I think God gives its faith and God I think God gives its faith and God I think God gives its toughest battles toughest battles toughest battles um to his most important soldiers. And um to his most important soldiers. And um to his most important soldiers. And so there's always for me in all of those so there's always for me in all of those so there's always for me in all of those moments I had to like learn something, moments I had to like learn something, moments I had to like learn something, go through something and grow. And it's go through something and grow. And it's go through something and grow. And it's always on the other side of it once I've always on the other side of it once I've always on the other side of it once I've gotten out of certain situations and gotten out of certain situations and gotten out of certain situations and learned a lot of things etc. It's learned a lot of things etc. It's learned a lot of things etc. It's prepared me to fly higher in life and do prepared me to fly higher in life and do prepared me to fly higher in life and do more things. And so, uh, I think more things. And so, uh, I think more things. And so, uh, I think everything happens for a reason. And, everything happens for a reason. And, everything happens for a reason. And, yeah, you can't like victimize yourself yeah, you can't like victimize yourself yeah, you can't like victimize yourself and know that if you come out on the and know that if you come out on the and know that if you come out on the other side of it, you will be stronger other side of it, you will be stronger other side of it, you will be stronger and that will lead and lend to a bigger and that will lead and lend to a bigger and that will lead and lend to a bigger and better life. and better life. and better life. >> Yeah. Jeff, how about you? I mean, I >> Yeah. Jeff, how about you? I mean, I >> Yeah. Jeff, how about you? I mean, I think Jake puts it really really nicely think Jake puts it really really nicely think Jake puts it really really nicely in terms of whether it's faith in like a in terms of whether it's faith in like a in terms of whether it's faith in like a higher power or just like a conviction higher power or just like a conviction higher power or just like a conviction in yourself that what you're doing is in yourself that what you're doing is in yourself that what you're doing is truly worth fighting for and battling truly worth fighting for and battling truly worth fighting for and battling for and and and and standing and like for and and and and standing and like for and and and and standing and like dying for, right? So, I think it's like dying for, right? So, I think it's like dying for, right? So, I think it's like and that's where I think just choosing and that's where I think just choosing and that's where I think just choosing the right mission is so important, the right mission is so important, the right mission is so important, right? Like right? Like right? Like a lot of things that people choose to a lot of things that people choose to a lot of things that people choose to do, they probably do not care for, do, they probably do not care for, do, they probably do not care for, right? But like if you hate your job and right? But like if you hate your job and right? But like if you hate your job and but you still putting you know 40 hours but you still putting you know 40 hours but you still putting you know 40 hours 50 hours a week on it and and you're 50 hours a week on it and and you're 50 hours a week on it and and you're like getting attacked or critiqued for like getting attacked or critiqued for like getting attacked or critiqued for it then like there's no conviction it then like there's no conviction it then like there's no conviction there. So in some sense if you just there. So in some sense if you just there. So in some sense if you just choose the right battles to fight for choose the right battles to fight for choose the right battles to fight for and you're willing to take those arrows and you're willing to take those arrows and you're willing to take those arrows because you believe in the mission you because you believe in the mission you because you believe in the mission you believe in the message that almost like believe in the message that almost like believe in the message that almost like helps you with that faith because like helps you with that faith because like helps you with that faith because like you you actually believe in and and have you you actually believe in and and have you you actually believe in and and have conviction in what you're fighting for. conviction in what you're fighting for. conviction in what you're fighting for. like you know we're invested in some of like you know we're invested in some of like you know we're invested in some of the top most high-profile AI companies the top most high-profile AI companies the top most high-profile AI companies and and and and those are some of the and and and and those are some of the and and and and those are some of the topics that we're able to just like and topics that we're able to just like and topics that we're able to just like and I think especially Jake can like share I think especially Jake can like share I think especially Jake can like share his perspective on right if people are his perspective on right if people are his perspective on right if people are going through like really highprofile going through like really highprofile going through like really highprofile uh like hate on social media or uh like hate on social media or uh like hate on social media or litigation and controversy I think Jake litigation and controversy I think Jake litigation and controversy I think Jake having lived through that at some of the having lived through that at some of the having lived through that at some of the highest levels and sharing that how he highest levels and sharing that how he highest levels and sharing that how he deals with it is like just super helpful deals with it is like just super helpful deals with it is like just super helpful for founders that we talk to and work for founders that we talk to and work for founders that we talk to and work with um but I think it just goes back to with um but I think it just goes back to with um but I think it just goes back to like I think if they believe in the like I think if they believe in the like I think if they believe in the mission they're doing right like if you mission they're doing right like if you mission they're doing right like if you think that you're banking beneficial AGI think that you're banking beneficial AGI think that you're banking beneficial AGI or you're really believe like fusion or you're really believe like fusion or you're really believe like fusion energy or defense tech and making energy or defense tech and making energy or defense tech and making Americans have the best weapon systems Americans have the best weapon systems Americans have the best weapon systems as really important which we think is as really important which we think is as really important which we think is really important then having that really important then having that really important then having that strength to fight and battle for that uh strength to fight and battle for that uh strength to fight and battle for that uh makes it easier if you have that makes it easier if you have that makes it easier if you have that self-conviction that what you're doing self-conviction that what you're doing self-conviction that what you're doing is correct. is correct. is correct. >> Yeah. Someone once asked Clifford Cler >> Yeah. Someone once asked Clifford Cler >> Yeah. Someone once asked Clifford Cler something like um you know it seems like something like um you know it seems like something like um you know it seems like you're not that interested in politics you're not that interested in politics you're not that interested in politics what why is that and he says something what why is that and he says something what why is that and he says something like it doesn't help me with my looks like it doesn't help me with my looks like it doesn't help me with my looks maxing journey. Um so as I say how have maxing journey. Um so as I say how have maxing journey. Um so as I say how have you guys sort of approached politics or you guys sort of approached politics or you guys sort of approached politics or not approached politics or Yeah. How not approached politics or Yeah. How not approached politics or Yeah. How have you guys thought about that? Yeah, have you guys thought about that? Yeah, have you guys thought about that? Yeah, I think um it's always been my goal and I think um it's always been my goal and I think um it's always been my goal and a part of who I am since I was younger a part of who I am since I was younger a part of who I am since I was younger is to like help the people around me um is to like help the people around me um is to like help the people around me um and to be a leader and to and to be a leader and to and to be a leader and to speak my mind on certain things. And I speak my mind on certain things. And I speak my mind on certain things. And I think think think when I'm in this position of having a when I'm in this position of having a when I'm in this position of having a large audience and as an American, we large audience and as an American, we large audience and as an American, we all have our right to our opinion and to all have our right to our opinion and to all have our right to our opinion and to voice our opinion. That's one of the voice our opinion. That's one of the voice our opinion. That's one of the most beautiful things about this most beautiful things about this most beautiful things about this country. And I think with a lot of country. And I think with a lot of country. And I think with a lot of people uh following me, I've taken it people uh following me, I've taken it people uh following me, I've taken it upon myself to speak my mind on what I upon myself to speak my mind on what I upon myself to speak my mind on what I believe in and to um hopefully help believe in and to um hopefully help believe in and to um hopefully help others understand as well and grow a others understand as well and grow a others understand as well and grow a deeper understanding of politics and deeper understanding of politics and deeper understanding of politics and some of the things that are going on. some of the things that are going on. some of the things that are going on. And I believe it's important as American And I believe it's important as American And I believe it's important as American to exercise that right to our opinion to exercise that right to our opinion to exercise that right to our opinion and to voice our opinion. And I've just and to voice our opinion. And I've just and to voice our opinion. And I've just slowly, you know, started to talk more slowly, you know, started to talk more slowly, you know, started to talk more and more about it openly. And and more about it openly. And and more about it openly. And I think it comes from my dad as well. He I think it comes from my dad as well. He I think it comes from my dad as well. He was very political growing up. And I've was very political growing up. And I've was very political growing up. And I've always been involved in it and seeing it always been involved in it and seeing it always been involved in it and seeing it and talking about it. And I think it's and talking about it. And I think it's and talking about it. And I think it's the biggest game in life. And the biggest game in life. And the biggest game in life. And um I think it's um I think it's um I think it's interesting to be in those rooms and to interesting to be in those rooms and to interesting to be in those rooms and to talk to those people and to talk to those people and to talk to those people and to uh help them, you know, potentially win uh help them, you know, potentially win uh help them, you know, potentially win um certain elections, whether that's um certain elections, whether that's um certain elections, whether that's governor or president or senator. So, governor or president or senator. So, governor or president or senator. So, it's just been interesting and and fun it's just been interesting and and fun it's just been interesting and and fun and and I think it really truly does and and I think it really truly does and and I think it really truly does make an impact to the American people make an impact to the American people make an impact to the American people and society. I just want to say that's and society. I just want to say that's and society. I just want to say that's one thing I respect about Jake because I one thing I respect about Jake because I one thing I respect about Jake because I know that a lot of people in the public know that a lot of people in the public know that a lot of people in the public eye eye eye are too afraid to step into politics are too afraid to step into politics are too afraid to step into politics because it's not good for business, because it's not good for business, because it's not good for business, right? Like Michael Jordan like everyone right? Like Michael Jordan like everyone right? Like Michael Jordan like everyone buys shoes or whatever like that that buys shoes or whatever like that that buys shoes or whatever like that that quote. quote. quote. >> Um but I respect that Jake and we just >> Um but I respect that Jake and we just >> Um but I respect that Jake and we just had conversations about this where it's had conversations about this where it's had conversations about this where it's like you know like if you actually have like you know like if you actually have like you know like if you actually have conviction like God or your faith will conviction like God or your faith will conviction like God or your faith will like pay full dividends for that like pay full dividends for that like pay full dividends for that conviction, right? And I think conviction, right? And I think conviction, right? And I think there's and I think there's something there's and I think there's something there's and I think there's something too like life and your family and your too like life and your family and your too like life and your family and your culture, your neighborhood, your culture, your neighborhood, your culture, your neighborhood, your community is community is community is arguably more important than just like arguably more important than just like arguably more important than just like stacking more stacking more stacking more >> zeros behind your account, right? Like >> zeros behind your account, right? Like >> zeros behind your account, right? Like at a certain point like you win the at a certain point like you win the at a certain point like you win the money maxing game. You win the money money maxing game. You win the money money maxing game. You win the money game. Then it's like can you actually game. Then it's like can you actually game. Then it's like can you actually create a better livelihood for yourself, create a better livelihood for yourself, create a better livelihood for yourself, your kids, your neighbors, your your kids, your neighbors, your your kids, your neighbors, your community. Um, community. Um, community. Um, and it takes courageous people like Jake and it takes courageous people like Jake and it takes courageous people like Jake to be like, "Hey, like I I'm okay to to be like, "Hey, like I I'm okay to to be like, "Hey, like I I'm okay to like take a little bit of risk." Yeah. like take a little bit of risk." Yeah. like take a little bit of risk." Yeah. >> And maybe piss off a segment of people, >> And maybe piss off a segment of people, >> And maybe piss off a segment of people, but I truly believe in this. It's not but I truly believe in this. It's not but I truly believe in this. It's not some BS. Like there's like there's a some BS. Like there's like there's a some BS. Like there's like there's a deep conviction that he will sacrifice deep conviction that he will sacrifice deep conviction that he will sacrifice >> monetary opportunity or just reduce optionality opportunity or just reduce optionality because there's true belief and true because there's true belief and true because there's true belief and true conviction behind his perspective. conviction behind his perspective. conviction behind his perspective. That's what that that is what leadership That's what that that is what leadership That's what that that is what leadership actually is. So there's no leaders out actually is. So there's no leaders out actually is. So there's no leaders out there and we're totally screwed. So we there and we're totally screwed. So we there and we're totally screwed. So we need people to step up and lead. need people to step up and lead. need people to step up and lead. >> Could you see yourself running someday >> Could you see yourself running someday >> Could you see yourself running someday >> for some sort of elected position? >> for some sort of elected position? >> for some sort of elected position? >> Yeah, I could see being involved for >> Yeah, I could see being involved for >> Yeah, I could see being involved for sure. And I think it's like become more sure. And I think it's like become more sure. And I think it's like become more and more of a thing. I think Jeff was and more of a thing. I think Jeff was and more of a thing. I think Jeff was the first person actually to like talk the first person actually to like talk the first person actually to like talk about it six years ago and then about it six years ago and then about it six years ago and then obviously President Trump like endorsed obviously President Trump like endorsed obviously President Trump like endorsed me on stage to run for president and me on stage to run for president and me on stage to run for president and then backstage was like, I think you then backstage was like, I think you then backstage was like, I think you should really do it, etc. I would only should really do it, etc. I would only should really do it, etc. I would only want to be involved in it if I was like want to be involved in it if I was like want to be involved in it if I was like the best person to do it. Um, and to the best person to do it. Um, and to the best person to do it. Um, and to help the the country. Um, and if some help the the country. Um, and if some help the the country. Um, and if some other other other people on the other side of things that people on the other side of things that people on the other side of things that weren't good for the country felt like weren't good for the country felt like weren't good for the country felt like they had traction, um, I would probably they had traction, um, I would probably they had traction, um, I would probably do it to, do it to, do it to, yeah, help the people of America and yeah, help the people of America and yeah, help the people of America and make sure we don't get wrapped up into make sure we don't get wrapped up into make sure we don't get wrapped up into this like whole socialist communist this like whole socialist communist this like whole socialist communist thing that's going on like in New York thing that's going on like in New York thing that's going on like in New York with mom don dummy. Mom dummy. Yeah, with mom don dummy. Mom dummy. Yeah, with mom don dummy. Mom dummy. Yeah, that's it. Um it's really bad and that's it. Um it's really bad and that's it. Um it's really bad and it will it will it will lead to um America being in a very very lead to um America being in a very very lead to um America being in a very very bad place. And so if something like bad place. And so if something like bad place. And so if something like that's going on and there's something I that's going on and there's something I that's going on and there's something I can do to help, then yeah, of course I'm can do to help, then yeah, of course I'm can do to help, then yeah, of course I'm going to want to get involved or even going to want to get involved or even going to want to get involved or even maybe just help push a candidate and maybe just help push a candidate and maybe just help push a candidate and support them. support them. support them. >> Yeah. So, you spent the first 15 years >> Yeah. So, you spent the first 15 years >> Yeah. So, you spent the first 15 years or so, you know, we talked about media, or so, you know, we talked about media, or so, you know, we talked about media, you know, uh, boxing, uh, tech. If you you know, uh, boxing, uh, tech. If you you know, uh, boxing, uh, tech. If you were to guess over the next 5 to 10 were to guess over the next 5 to 10 were to guess over the next 5 to 10 years, um, what's something else you years, um, what's something else you years, um, what's something else you might add to your repertoire? Um, might add to your repertoire? Um, might add to your repertoire? Um, besides obviously going much bigger in besides obviously going much bigger in besides obviously going much bigger in the areas you're already in, what could the areas you're already in, what could the areas you're already in, what could that be? that be? that be? >> I would probably say, yeah, the the most >> I would probably say, yeah, the the most >> I would probably say, yeah, the the most like obvious one that I'm like super like obvious one that I'm like super like obvious one that I'm like super passionate about is is definitely passionate about is is definitely passionate about is is definitely politics. And that seems to, politics. And that seems to, politics. And that seems to, you know, grow as I get older as well you know, grow as I get older as well you know, grow as I get older as well because of what Jeff was saying is like, because of what Jeff was saying is like, because of what Jeff was saying is like, how do I, okay, we have the money, we how do I, okay, we have the money, we how do I, okay, we have the money, we have this stuff, like how do I help the have this stuff, like how do I help the have this stuff, like how do I help the world and do my part and I have the world and do my part and I have the world and do my part and I have the courage and I believe the right mindset courage and I believe the right mindset courage and I believe the right mindset on it and the right way to think about on it and the right way to think about on it and the right way to think about it and finding truth not only within it and finding truth not only within it and finding truth not only within myself, but that becomes a practice out myself, but that becomes a practice out myself, but that becomes a practice out there in the world. And so I believe there in the world. And so I believe there in the world. And so I believe that a lot of my takes and opinions and that a lot of my takes and opinions and that a lot of my takes and opinions and thoughts on it are the ones closest to thoughts on it are the ones closest to thoughts on it are the ones closest to truth and really just finding what's truth and really just finding what's truth and really just finding what's best um for the people and for the best um for the people and for the best um for the people and for the country and um for you know creating the country and um for you know creating the country and um for you know creating the future for my kids and if I can be future for my kids and if I can be future for my kids and if I can be helpful in that and I think and I know I helpful in that and I think and I know I helpful in that and I think and I know I can and I know I have very a very good can and I know I have very a very good can and I know I have very a very good way of thinking about things. Um way of thinking about things. Um way of thinking about things. Um then yeah I would definitely see myself then yeah I would definitely see myself then yeah I would definitely see myself in the next 10 to 15 years in that arena in the next 10 to 15 years in that arena in the next 10 to 15 years in that arena for sure. What last question on this for sure. What last question on this for sure. What last question on this topic high level what are the what's a topic high level what are the what's a topic high level what are the what's a topic or what are the topics that you topic or what are the topics that you topic or what are the topics that you care most about in in that arena that of care most about in in that arena that of care most about in in that arena that of making sure we really get right. making sure we really get right. making sure we really get right. >> Yeah I mean I think uh education first >> Yeah I mean I think uh education first >> Yeah I mean I think uh education first and foremost and I think it's like so and foremost and I think it's like so and foremost and I think it's like so it's it's bad. it hasn't been reformed it's it's bad. it hasn't been reformed it's it's bad. it hasn't been reformed since you know what the 1920s the 1930s since you know what the 1920s the 1930s since you know what the 1920s the 1930s there's been no change and the world has there's been no change and the world has there's been no change and the world has changed so much and I think there you changed so much and I think there you changed so much and I think there you see with you know being in the investing see with you know being in the investing see with you know being in the investing world you see some of these like newer world you see some of these like newer world you see some of these like newer aged startups that are focused on school aged startups that are focused on school aged startups that are focused on school popping up um what's the one alpha alpha popping up um what's the one alpha alpha popping up um what's the one alpha alpha school very like impressed with what school very like impressed with what school very like impressed with what they're doing and I think they're doing and I think they're doing and I think creating that future creating that future creating that future You're almost, you know, planting seeds You're almost, you know, planting seeds You're almost, you know, planting seeds of a fruit tree with changing the of a fruit tree with changing the of a fruit tree with changing the education system because then in 30, 40 education system because then in 30, 40 education system because then in 30, 40 years, the country is going to have years, the country is going to have years, the country is going to have a lot smarter people, a lot better a lot smarter people, a lot better a lot smarter people, a lot better educated people and that ripple effect educated people and that ripple effect educated people and that ripple effect just just just impacts society so much and in a massive impacts society so much and in a massive impacts society so much and in a massive way. And we also don't want to fall way. And we also don't want to fall way. And we also don't want to fall behind with other other countries. And I behind with other other countries. And I behind with other other countries. And I think it also lends itself to finance. think it also lends itself to finance. think it also lends itself to finance. And the number one problem I think And the number one problem I think And the number one problem I think that's out there right now with young that's out there right now with young that's out there right now with young men and [snorts] young women even is men and [snorts] young women even is men and [snorts] young women even is like how do they make money? Where do like how do they make money? Where do like how do they make money? Where do they make money? And if that education they make money? And if that education they make money? And if that education is in place and you're prepared and you is in place and you're prepared and you is in place and you're prepared and you actually learn about maybe how to do actually learn about maybe how to do actually learn about maybe how to do taxes in school and not like about the taxes in school and not like about the taxes in school and not like about the [ __ ] uh Pythagorean theorem, I I [ __ ] uh Pythagorean theorem, I I [ __ ] uh Pythagorean theorem, I I think that would be a much better think that would be a much better think that would be a much better outcome for the people of America. And outcome for the people of America. And outcome for the people of America. And um it's just wild to me that something um it's just wild to me that something um it's just wild to me that something like that isn't taught amongst many like that isn't taught amongst many like that isn't taught amongst many other things. And so I believe the other things. And so I believe the other things. And so I believe the economy would thrive more from economy would thrive more from economy would thrive more from education. And yeah, the list goes the education. And yeah, the list goes the education. And yeah, the list goes the list goes on. But list goes on. But list goes on. But >> I mean, I think one thing that's cool is >> I mean, I think one thing that's cool is >> I mean, I think one thing that's cool is like the Invest America counts, the like the Invest America counts, the like the Invest America counts, the Trump accounts. Trump accounts. Trump accounts. >> I know that Jake is supporting the team >> I know that Jake is supporting the team >> I know that Jake is supporting the team there on that. Maybe you want to talk a there on that. Maybe you want to talk a there on that. Maybe you want to talk a little bit more about that. But I think little bit more about that. But I think little bit more about that. But I think in terms of allowing the next generation in terms of allowing the next generation in terms of allowing the next generation of young Americans actually participate of young Americans actually participate of young Americans actually participate with the fastest growing private with the fastest growing private with the fastest growing private companies and having them be a companies and having them be a companies and having them be a shareholder and a stakeholder in success shareholder and a stakeholder in success shareholder and a stakeholder in success of American innovation is really really of American innovation is really really of American innovation is really really important right that ties into education important right that ties into education important right that ties into education right to to Jake's point if people don't right to to Jake's point if people don't right to to Jake's point if people don't grow up knowing how to compound their grow up knowing how to compound their grow up knowing how to compound their money right like I think it's I I people money right like I think it's I I people money right like I think it's I I people should know the Pythagorean theorem in should know the Pythagorean theorem in should know the Pythagorean theorem in the quadratic equation but yes you the quadratic equation but yes you the quadratic equation but yes you should should should how like how like how like >> they shouldn't. It's literally taking up >> they shouldn't. It's literally taking up >> they shouldn't. It's literally taking up space in my brain, space in my brain, space in my brain, >> but [laughter] like knowing how >> but [laughter] like knowing how >> but [laughter] like knowing how >> and I don't have a lot of space. Okay. >> and I don't have a lot of space. Okay. >> and I don't have a lot of space. Okay. So, So, So, >> but knowing how like wealth compounds >> but knowing how like wealth compounds >> but knowing how like wealth compounds and how is really important and I think and how is really important and I think and how is really important and I think with like the Trump accounts, like with like the Trump accounts, like with like the Trump accounts, like having every little kid see their little having every little kid see their little having every little kid see their little stock portfolio and realizing, hey, like stock portfolio and realizing, hey, like stock portfolio and realizing, hey, like this is how money and investing works is this is how money and investing works is this is how money and investing works is super important. [snorts] to to that super important. [snorts] to to that super important. [snorts] to to that end, Jeff, if you were 18 today, um end, Jeff, if you were 18 today, um end, Jeff, if you were 18 today, um knowing what you know, would you go to knowing what you know, would you go to knowing what you know, would you go to college or like do you advise people to college or like do you advise people to college or like do you advise people to go to college? How do you think about go to college? How do you think about go to college? How do you think about that? that? that? >> Um >> Um >> Um yeah, I I I I think Peter Thiel in some yeah, I I I I think Peter Thiel in some yeah, I I I I think Peter Thiel in some sense is like kind of hypocritical when sense is like kind of hypocritical when sense is like kind of hypocritical when he's like don't go to college where he he's like don't go to college where he he's like don't go to college where he had Stanford undergrad, Stanford Law had Stanford undergrad, Stanford Law had Stanford undergrad, Stanford Law School, he got all the badges, right? So School, he got all the badges, right? So School, he got all the badges, right? So not but I but I think underlying point not but I but I think underlying point not but I but I think underlying point is correct. But to me, like getting a is correct. But to me, like getting a is correct. But to me, like getting a badge is useful if you don't have any badge is useful if you don't have any badge is useful if you don't have any other badges, right? Like Jake could not other badges, right? Like Jake could not other badges, right? Like Jake could not have to have the institutional badge of have to have the institutional badge of have to have the institutional badge of being educated because he became world being educated because he became world being educated because he became world class at what he does as a content class at what he does as a content class at what he does as a content creator, an athlete, a media creator, an athlete, a media creator, an athlete, a media personality, an entertainer. But if personality, an entertainer. But if personality, an entertainer. But if you're not like Jake, then you need to you're not like Jake, then you need to you're not like Jake, then you need to like get some external badges, right? like get some external badges, right? like get some external badges, right? Like you got to win a science fair, win Like you got to win a science fair, win Like you got to win a science fair, win a math competition. And if it happens to a math competition. And if it happens to a math competition. And if it happens to be like, you know, you get you go to be like, you know, you get you go to be like, you know, you get you go to Harvard, that's a really good badge to Harvard, that's a really good badge to Harvard, that's a really good badge to say like, hey, at some external say like, hey, at some external say like, hey, at some external validator that you're at least good at validator that you're at least good at validator that you're at least good at something, right? Um, so to me, it's something, right? Um, so to me, it's something, right? Um, so to me, it's like like like you you I think all of us should try to you you I think all of us should try to you you I think all of us should try to aspire to be best in the world at aspire to be best in the world at aspire to be best in the world at something. And it could be the best something. And it could be the best something. And it could be the best violin player. It could be the best violin player. It could be the best violin player. It could be the best business person, be the best boxer or business person, be the best boxer or business person, be the best boxer or the best like I don't know podcaster or the best like I don't know podcaster or the best like I don't know podcaster or just the best like artist or the best just the best like artist or the best just the best like artist or the best like doodler, right? But like everyone like doodler, right? But like everyone like doodler, right? But like everyone should have some god-given like talent should have some god-given like talent should have some god-given like talent to be potentially the best in the world to be potentially the best in the world to be potentially the best in the world at. And then two, if there's like at. And then two, if there's like at. And then two, if there's like education badges that help you like education badges that help you like education badges that help you like validate and give you that confidence validate and give you that confidence validate and give you that confidence that you can be, I think it's actually that you can be, I think it's actually that you can be, I think it's actually very valuable. But I think in terms of very valuable. But I think in terms of very valuable. But I think in terms of like the educational content like the educational content like the educational content um I think that will be reformed there um I think that will be reformed there um I think that will be reformed there right like I think the education system right like I think the education system right like I think the education system will change but I think the badging will change but I think the badging will change but I think the badging system will not change. So my advice system will not change. So my advice system will not change. So my advice would be like collect some badges as a would be like collect some badges as a would be like collect some badges as a kid right become the best YouTuber or go kid right become the best YouTuber or go kid right become the best YouTuber or go to Stanford go to Harvard get some to Stanford go to Harvard get some to Stanford go to Harvard get some badges and that I think gives you a lot badges and that I think gives you a lot badges and that I think gives you a lot of confidence of confidence of confidence >> to like do the next thing like a real >> to like do the next thing like a real >> to like do the next thing like a real thing. Jake, are you seriously thing. Jake, are you seriously thing. Jake, are you seriously considered going to Stanford? considered going to Stanford? considered going to Stanford? >> I went there today and I was like, "This >> I went there today and I was like, "This >> I went there today and I was like, "This is beautiful." [laughter] We went to the is beautiful." [laughter] We went to the is beautiful." [laughter] We went to the church and um church and um church and um yeah, I don't know. I think it could be yeah, I don't know. I think it could be yeah, I don't know. I think it could be funny or interesting, but I I I would funny or interesting, but I I I would funny or interesting, but I I I would definitely uh I think it would lend definitely uh I think it would lend definitely uh I think it would lend itself like I I do have NFL aspirations. itself like I I do have NFL aspirations. itself like I I do have NFL aspirations. >> Oh, wow. Uh, after boxing, >> Oh, wow. Uh, after boxing, >> Oh, wow. Uh, after boxing, I want to play slot receiver and so I I want to play slot receiver and so I I want to play slot receiver and so I think to, you know, get that experience think to, you know, get that experience think to, you know, get that experience in college first would be good so I in college first would be good so I in college first would be good so I could walk onto the Stanford team. It could walk onto the Stanford team. It could walk onto the Stanford team. It Yeah, it I'm being serious though. Yeah. Yeah, it I'm being serious though. Yeah. Yeah, it I'm being serious though. Yeah. >> Well, this might be the first podcast >> Well, this might be the first podcast >> Well, this might be the first podcast you you mention it, so you you mention it, so you you mention it, so >> it is. [laughter] >> it is. [laughter] >> it is. [laughter] And it happened, the idea of it happened And it happened, the idea of it happened And it happened, the idea of it happened today because I was like, well, I was today because I was like, well, I was today because I was like, well, I was originally thinking I'll just go originally thinking I'll just go originally thinking I'll just go straight to the Cleveland Browns or straight to the Cleveland Browns or straight to the Cleveland Browns or Dallas Cowboys, but they're probably Dallas Cowboys, but they're probably Dallas Cowboys, but they're probably going to want to see me play first. And going to want to see me play first. And going to want to see me play first. And so, it might be better if I start off in so, it might be better if I start off in so, it might be better if I start off in college and um have a little bit of an college and um have a little bit of an college and um have a little bit of an advantage over the younger, not as big advantage over the younger, not as big advantage over the younger, not as big kids before going into the NFL. kids before going into the NFL. kids before going into the NFL. >> That's amazing. The um um I want to >> That's amazing. The um um I want to >> That's amazing. The um um I want to close on some anti- fun topics. Um, close on some anti- fun topics. Um, close on some anti- fun topics. Um, Jeff, you talked a little bit about Jeff, you talked a little bit about Jeff, you talked a little bit about founder taste and how important it is founder taste and how important it is founder taste and how important it is and how how rare it is to actually have and how how rare it is to actually have and how how rare it is to actually have it. Talk about what it means and and how it. Talk about what it means and and how it. Talk about what it means and and how you guys have developed it. you guys have developed it. you guys have developed it. >> I mean, I think through both our >> I mean, I think through both our >> I mean, I think through both our journeys, I mean, I think I remember journeys, I mean, I think I remember journeys, I mean, I think I remember like some of our early conversations like some of our early conversations like some of our early conversations with Jake, like Jake's met some of the with Jake, like Jake's met some of the with Jake, like Jake's met some of the most [ __ ] weird, crazy hustler, most [ __ ] weird, crazy hustler, most [ __ ] weird, crazy hustler, scammy people through his career, like scammy people through his career, like scammy people through his career, like going, you know, 16 to Hollywood and going, you know, 16 to Hollywood and going, you know, 16 to Hollywood and just like getting thrown to the wolves, just like getting thrown to the wolves, just like getting thrown to the wolves, right? So I think and like me coming up right? So I think and like me coming up right? So I think and like me coming up in Silicon Valley, Stanford, Y in Silicon Valley, Stanford, Y in Silicon Valley, Stanford, Y Combinator, Combinator, Combinator, uh I think we just got a lot of reps at uh I think we just got a lot of reps at uh I think we just got a lot of reps at meeting people, getting pitched things, meeting people, getting pitched things, meeting people, getting pitched things, doing bad deals, making mistakes. Um so doing bad deals, making mistakes. Um so doing bad deals, making mistakes. Um so I don't there might be some talent or EQ I don't there might be some talent or EQ I don't there might be some talent or EQ or people reading skill, but I think a or people reading skill, but I think a or people reading skill, but I think a lot of it is probably just a ton of lot of it is probably just a ton of lot of it is probably just a ton of reps, right? Like, and again, maybe reps, right? Like, and again, maybe reps, right? Like, and again, maybe going full story to the top, like I going full story to the top, like I going full story to the top, like I think I remember like, you know, think I remember like, you know, think I remember like, you know, recatching up when Jake was 23, 24. It's recatching up when Jake was 23, 24. It's recatching up when Jake was 23, 24. It's like, oh man, this guy's like got a lot like, oh man, this guy's like got a lot like, oh man, this guy's like got a lot of reps on a lot of stuff that like 50-y of reps on a lot of stuff that like 50-y of reps on a lot of stuff that like 50-y old men never deal with, right? Just old men never deal with, right? Just old men never deal with, right? Just like, oh, like litigation, this business like, oh, like litigation, this business like, oh, like litigation, this business deals, someone deals, someone deals, someone >> business issues or success, like right >> business issues or success, like right >> business issues or success, like right like just he just had a like he just like just he just had a like he just like just he just had a like he just like he lives in dog ears, right? Like I like he lives in dog ears, right? Like I like he lives in dog ears, right? Like I that's like I feel like that's that's like I feel like that's that's like I feel like that's Laura uh recently joined a standup Laura uh recently joined a standup Laura uh recently joined a standup Jake's uh family office and and and and Jake's uh family office and and and and Jake's uh family office and and and and running it. I mean it's like the amount running it. I mean it's like the amount running it. I mean it's like the amount of stuff that we've done in the last of stuff that we've done in the last of stuff that we've done in the last couple months is just like probably it's couple months is just like probably it's couple months is just like probably it's like two years worth of like [ __ ] in like two years worth of like [ __ ] in like two years worth of like [ __ ] in like two months. Um, like two months. Um, like two months. Um, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, so I think there there's like that so I think there there's like that so I think there there's like that people reading aspect, but I think it people reading aspect, but I think it people reading aspect, but I think it ultimately goes down to like, okay, um, ultimately goes down to like, okay, um, ultimately goes down to like, okay, um, do they have a passion and like a reason do they have a passion and like a reason do they have a passion and like a reason to believe why they can be world class to believe why they can be world class to believe why they can be world class of what they choose to pursue? And then of what they choose to pursue? And then of what they choose to pursue? And then two, are they resilient and tough enough two, are they resilient and tough enough two, are they resilient and tough enough to eat a ton of [ __ ] to get there? to eat a ton of [ __ ] to get there? to eat a ton of [ __ ] to get there? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> those are like the two like attributes. >> those are like the two like attributes. >> those are like the two like attributes. And I think that's like, you know, some And I think that's like, you know, some And I think that's like, you know, some measure of IQ and then personality read measure of IQ and then personality read measure of IQ and then personality read >> and and just yeah, track record, >> and and just yeah, track record, >> and and just yeah, track record, you know, and um leaning on on you know, and um leaning on on you know, and um leaning on on other people that we trust and respect other people that we trust and respect other people that we trust and respect for background for background for background um on certain people and their dealings um on certain people and their dealings um on certain people and their dealings with them. So I think reference checks with them. So I think reference checks with them. So I think reference checks are also very important for us. It's um are also very important for us. It's um are also very important for us. It's um yeah, one of the companies we invested yeah, one of the companies we invested yeah, one of the companies we invested in like a defense tech, we just like hit in like a defense tech, we just like hit in like a defense tech, we just like hit up Palmer Ly's team and we're like, "Yo, up Palmer Ly's team and we're like, "Yo, up Palmer Ly's team and we're like, "Yo, what do you think of this group?" Um, so what do you think of this group?" Um, so what do you think of this group?" Um, so always referencing our our network for always referencing our our network for always referencing our our network for the certain categories of things that the certain categories of things that the certain categories of things that we're working on and that's proven to we're working on and that's proven to we're working on and that's proven to work really well. work really well. work really well. >> You you've made investments in some >> You you've made investments in some >> You you've made investments in some iconic companies. We listed some of them iconic companies. We listed some of them iconic companies. We listed some of them earlier. We'll also put the you a bunch earlier. We'll also put the you a bunch earlier. We'll also put the you a bunch in the show notes, but you've also in the show notes, but you've also in the show notes, but you've also incubated, you know, getting better. Um, incubated, you know, getting better. Um, incubated, you know, getting better. Um, could you see yourself incubating more could you see yourself incubating more could you see yourself incubating more uh companies where you have unfair uh companies where you have unfair uh companies where you have unfair advantage like you did in sort of uh, advantage like you did in sort of uh, advantage like you did in sort of uh, you know, betting or how do you think you know, betting or how do you think you know, betting or how do you think about that? about that? about that? >> Yeah, definitely. I think um have been >> Yeah, definitely. I think um have been >> Yeah, definitely. I think um have been noodling on certain things to found noodling on certain things to found noodling on certain things to found currently um and just like seeing how currently um and just like seeing how currently um and just like seeing how the world is evolving with this current the world is evolving with this current the world is evolving with this current you know AI boom and just seeing the you know AI boom and just seeing the you know AI boom and just seeing the world change and all of this stuff and world change and all of this stuff and world change and all of this stuff and so there's been ideas and you know we've so there's been ideas and you know we've so there's been ideas and you know we've grown some of these companies so where grown some of these companies so where grown some of these companies so where they like run themselves like better for they like run themselves like better for they like run themselves like better for example and I spend a limited amount of example and I spend a limited amount of example and I spend a limited amount of time on it um now because it's just the time on it um now because it's just the time on it um now because it's just the team is fully built out and so I think team is fully built out and so I think team is fully built out and so I think there is a dynamic shift happening for there is a dynamic shift happening for there is a dynamic shift happening for us right now where there's kind of an us right now where there's kind of an us right now where there's kind of an open open open >> slot to potentially found and start >> slot to potentially found and start >> slot to potentially found and start something new in this current landscape something new in this current landscape something new in this current landscape and it's definitely enticing um but and it's definitely enticing um but and it's definitely enticing um but obviously there's so much going on right obviously there's so much going on right obviously there's so much going on right now and you know you could launch a now and you know you could launch a now and you know you could launch a company and then you know open AI or company and then you know open AI or company and then you know open AI or claw claw claw replicates it next week and um you're replicates it next week and um you're replicates it next week and um you're kind of [ __ ] out of luck. kind of [ __ ] out of luck. kind of [ __ ] out of luck. >> Yeah, totally. I ane we were talking >> Yeah, totally. I ane we were talking >> Yeah, totally. I ane we were talking earlier about the need to monetize. earlier about the need to monetize. earlier about the need to monetize. Anecdotally, I've I've seen the sort of Anecdotally, I've I've seen the sort of Anecdotally, I've I've seen the sort of creator class get a lot smarter and more creator class get a lot smarter and more creator class get a lot smarter and more sophisticated about, you know, we've sophisticated about, you know, we've sophisticated about, you know, we've number like yourself getting into number like yourself getting into number like yourself getting into venture, getting into private equity, venture, getting into private equity, venture, getting into private equity, but even, you know, Jimmy was originally but even, you know, Jimmy was originally but even, you know, Jimmy was originally making chocolate. Now he's just bought a making chocolate. Now he's just bought a making chocolate. Now he's just bought a bank. He's like, "Hey, I can make a bank. He's like, "Hey, I can make a bank. He's like, "Hey, I can make a dollar off a customer. Maybe it can make dollar off a customer. Maybe it can make dollar off a customer. Maybe it can make hundreds of dollars off a customer." And hundreds of dollars off a customer." And hundreds of dollars off a customer." And so you guys getting into actually so you guys getting into actually so you guys getting into actually building software product, you know, and building software product, you know, and building software product, you know, and companies sort of I feel like people are companies sort of I feel like people are companies sort of I feel like people are getting more sophisticated about where getting more sophisticated about where getting more sophisticated about where the value is and um I'm excited to see the value is and um I'm excited to see the value is and um I'm excited to see that trend continue. that trend continue. that trend continue. >> Yeah, thank you. And yeah, I think as we >> Yeah, thank you. And yeah, I think as we >> Yeah, thank you. And yeah, I think as we become more sophisticated, yeah, it's become more sophisticated, yeah, it's become more sophisticated, yeah, it's like cool to sell, you know, I won't say like cool to sell, you know, I won't say like cool to sell, you know, I won't say like which companies or whatever, but like which companies or whatever, but like which companies or whatever, but like we want to play a bigger game. like we want to play a bigger game. like we want to play a bigger game. >> Yeah, totally. and and shift humanity >> Yeah, totally. and and shift humanity >> Yeah, totally. and and shift humanity >> w you know while doing that. >> w you know while doing that. >> w you know while doing that. >> Yeah, I think it's a good place to wrap. >> Yeah, I think it's a good place to wrap. >> Yeah, I think it's a good place to wrap. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Jake, Jeff, you guys are doing some >> Jake, Jeff, you guys are doing some >> Jake, Jeff, you guys are doing some really exciting. We're excited to be really exciting. We're excited to be really exciting. We're excited to be co-investors in a number of companies co-investors in a number of companies co-investors in a number of companies together and more to come. Thanks so together and more to come. Thanks so together and more to come. Thanks so much for coming to the podcast. much for coming to the podcast. much for coming to the podcast. >> Thank you, man.