Is It Burnout Or Something Deeper? The High-Functioning Trap

You know, you talk about this idea of You know, you talk about this idea of high functioning depression. How is that high functioning depression. How is that high functioning depression. How is that different from just burnout? different from just burnout? different from just burnout? >> Well, burnout is a workplace phenomenon. >> Well, burnout is a workplace phenomenon. >> Well, burnout is a workplace phenomenon. High functioning depression is High functioning depression is High functioning depression is different. This is the high functioning different. This is the high functioning different. This is the high functioning brain in the workplace. You still have brain in the workplace. You still have brain in the workplace. You still have the stress, the pressures from the the stress, the pressures from the the stress, the pressures from the outside. You remove that brain from the outside. You remove that brain from the outside. You remove that brain from the workplace and they don't get better. workplace and they don't get better. workplace and they don't get better. This is someone who when they sit still, This is someone who when they sit still, This is someone who when they sit still, they cannot relax. They're humans doing, they cannot relax. They're humans doing, they cannot relax. They're humans doing, not human beings, right? What we found not human beings, right? What we found not human beings, right? What we found was that there was a high correlation was that there was a high correlation was that there was a high correlation between unprocessed trauma and pain and between unprocessed trauma and pain and between unprocessed trauma and pain and HFD, high function depression. So the HFD, high function depression. So the HFD, high function depression. So the theory is that they're in the workplace, theory is that they're in the workplace, theory is that they're in the workplace, they have the symptoms. They're out of they have the symptoms. They're out of they have the symptoms. They're out of the workplace, they still have the the workplace, they still have the the workplace, they still have the symptoms. That unresolved trauma and symptoms. That unresolved trauma and symptoms. That unresolved trauma and pain is being carried with them. It's pain is being carried with them. It's pain is being carried with them. It's not being processed. not being processed. not being processed. >> If you've been dealing with anxiety, low >> If you've been dealing with anxiety, low >> If you've been dealing with anxiety, low energy, or trouble focusing and still energy, or trouble focusing and still energy, or trouble focusing and still feel like you're missing something, feel like you're missing something, feel like you're missing something, you're not alone. And that's why I you're not alone. And that's why I you're not alone. And that's why I created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new program that looks in places most people program that looks in places most people program that looks in places most people never think to check, like nutrient never think to check, like nutrient never think to check, like nutrient deficiencies, the health of your gut, deficiencies, the health of your gut, deficiencies, the health of your gut, metabolism, your immune system, and lots metabolism, your immune system, and lots metabolism, your immune system, and lots more. Welcome, Judith, to the podcast. more. Welcome, Judith, to the podcast. more. Welcome, Judith, to the podcast. It's good to have you here. It's good to have you here. It's good to have you here. >> It's so great to see you again. >> It's so great to see you again. >> It's so great to see you again. >> Your work is quite fascinating because >> Your work is quite fascinating because >> Your work is quite fascinating because you you've had kind of a flip on typical you you've had kind of a flip on typical you you've had kind of a flip on typical thinking in psychiatry. you know, just thinking in psychiatry. you know, just thinking in psychiatry. you know, just as in in the world of sort of health, as in in the world of sort of health, as in in the world of sort of health, you know, in medicine, we think of of, you know, in medicine, we think of of, you know, in medicine, we think of of, you know, you're okay if you don't have you know, you're okay if you don't have you know, you're okay if you don't have a disease, like that, you know, the a disease, like that, you know, the a disease, like that, you know, the absence of disease is health, but that's absence of disease is health, but that's absence of disease is health, but that's not true, right? And I think health is not true, right? And I think health is not true, right? And I think health is something else. It's a sense of positive something else. It's a sense of positive something else. It's a sense of positive vitality, well-being. And in psychiatry, vitality, well-being. And in psychiatry, vitality, well-being. And in psychiatry, it's the same thing. You know, if you it's the same thing. You know, if you it's the same thing. You know, if you don't have these clinical depression by don't have these clinical depression by don't have these clinical depression by these scales or anxiety or whatever it these scales or anxiety or whatever it these scales or anxiety or whatever it is, then you're fine. But there's is, then you're fine. But there's is, then you're fine. But there's another level of like full expression, another level of like full expression, another level of like full expression, happiness, joy, feeling that so many of happiness, joy, feeling that so many of happiness, joy, feeling that so many of us don't have. And we walk around living us don't have. And we walk around living us don't have. And we walk around living our lives in this. And I'm speaking for our lives in this. And I'm speaking for our lives in this. And I'm speaking for myself, you know, just overdoing, myself, you know, just overdoing, myself, you know, just overdoing, overachieving, overachieving, overachieving, driving. And you're high functioning. driving. And you're high functioning. driving. And you're high functioning. Like I was very high functioning. I Like I was very high functioning. I Like I was very high functioning. I wrote 20 books in 20 years. I'm like wrote 20 books in 20 years. I'm like wrote 20 books in 20 years. I'm like have a practice. I've done all these have a practice. I've done all these have a practice. I've done all these things. I started a center for function things. I started a center for function things. I started a center for function medicine clinic. I was just so driven. medicine clinic. I was just so driven. medicine clinic. I was just so driven. But I remember moments in that journey But I remember moments in that journey But I remember moments in that journey where I was like just in it and I wasn't where I was like just in it and I wasn't where I was like just in it and I wasn't happy. Like I was just kind of going happy. Like I was just kind of going happy. Like I was just kind of going through it and there was a steep sense through it and there was a steep sense through it and there was a steep sense of lack of joy and lack of livveness of lack of joy and lack of livveness of lack of joy and lack of livveness that I felt. that I felt. that I felt. >> I don't think anyone ever used the word >> I don't think anyone ever used the word >> I don't think anyone ever used the word joy when I was in medical school or joy when I was in medical school or joy when I was in medical school or training. training. training. >> Yeah. You don't learn about joy in >> Yeah. You don't learn about joy in >> Yeah. You don't learn about joy in psychiatry. psychiatry. psychiatry. >> Not at all. >> Not at all. >> Not at all. >> If you use the word joy, people would >> If you use the word joy, people would >> If you use the word joy, people would look at you like something was wrong look at you like something was wrong look at you like something was wrong with you. with you. with you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think, you know, it's interesting. >> And I think, you know, it's interesting. >> And I think, you know, it's interesting. A lot of people who went to medical A lot of people who went to medical A lot of people who went to medical school experienced depression. I know I school experienced depression. I know I school experienced depression. I know I did. I didn't know what to call it then did. I didn't know what to call it then did. I didn't know what to call it then because I was very high functioning. I because I was very high functioning. I because I was very high functioning. I was waking up getting good grades. Yeah. was waking up getting good grades. Yeah. was waking up getting good grades. Yeah. >> You know, being the teacher's pet, >> You know, being the teacher's pet, >> You know, being the teacher's pet, >> being the good girl. >> being the good girl. >> being the good girl. >> Yeah. The good the very good girl. But I >> Yeah. The good the very good girl. But I >> Yeah. The good the very good girl. But I I when I look back, I think I went I when I look back, I think I went I when I look back, I think I went through several bouts of depression. But through several bouts of depression. But through several bouts of depression. But in psychiatry, if you're not meeting in psychiatry, if you're not meeting in psychiatry, if you're not meeting criteria for lacking functioning and criteria for lacking functioning and criteria for lacking functioning and you're having all these symptoms of you're having all these symptoms of you're having all these symptoms of depression, depression, depression, >> you don't get the diagnosis and you >> you don't get the diagnosis and you >> you don't get the diagnosis and you don't get help. And even in medicine, don't get help. And even in medicine, don't get help. And even in medicine, when doctors recognize actual clinical when doctors recognize actual clinical when doctors recognize actual clinical depression, there's this apprehension depression, there's this apprehension depression, there's this apprehension about actually reporting it and getting about actually reporting it and getting about actually reporting it and getting help for it because by law, you're help for it because by law, you're help for it because by law, you're supposed to report your mental health supposed to report your mental health supposed to report your mental health conditions. So imagine you're a doctor conditions. So imagine you're a doctor conditions. So imagine you're a doctor and you're struggling and you don't and you're struggling and you don't and you're struggling and you don't report it because you don't want it to report it because you don't want it to report it because you don't want it to be on your license or on your, you know, be on your license or on your, you know, be on your license or on your, you know, records records records >> and you have all the student debt, you >> and you have all the student debt, you >> and you have all the student debt, you know, like you're thinking, well, what's know, like you're thinking, well, what's know, like you're thinking, well, what's the what's going to happen? Am I going the what's going to happen? Am I going the what's going to happen? Am I going to not be able to practice? I have to to not be able to practice? I have to to not be able to practice? I have to pay off these loans. So it really is a pay off these loans. So it really is a pay off these loans. So it really is a system that discourages the healers system that discourages the healers system that discourages the healers getting help and becoming healed. getting help and becoming healed. getting help and becoming healed. >> And it's not just it's not just doctors. >> And it's not just it's not just doctors. >> And it's not just it's not just doctors. There's so many people who are just in There's so many people who are just in There's so many people who are just in society who've kind of taken on the society who've kind of taken on the society who've kind of taken on the mantle of like, okay, I've got to mantle of like, okay, I've got to mantle of like, okay, I've got to achieve, I've got to do, I've got to achieve, I've got to do, I've got to achieve, I've got to do, I've got to succeed. And you know many of us have succeed. And you know many of us have succeed. And you know many of us have childhoods where we felt unworthy or childhoods where we felt unworthy or childhoods where we felt unworthy or unloved. And so I mean I know I did unloved. And so I mean I know I did unloved. And so I mean I know I did this. I you know overperform for love this. I you know overperform for love this. I you know overperform for love and overachieve and and there's a lot of and overachieve and and there's a lot of and overachieve and and there's a lot of side effects which are good. You know side effects which are good. You know side effects which are good. You know I've been successful have I've been successful have I've been successful have made impact. I've written a lot of made impact. I've written a lot of made impact. I've written a lot of books. I've done a lot of things but books. I've done a lot of things but books. I've done a lot of things but underneath it sometimes I remember and I underneath it sometimes I remember and I underneath it sometimes I remember and I I really come out of that but I remember I really come out of that but I remember I really come out of that but I remember periods of my my life where I was like periods of my my life where I was like periods of my my life where I was like just going going and didn't have the just going going and didn't have the just going going and didn't have the sense of joy. And you talk about this sense of joy. And you talk about this sense of joy. And you talk about this idea of of anhidonia, you know, which is idea of of anhidonia, you know, which is idea of of anhidonia, you know, which is lack of, I guess, joy or pleasure. Can lack of, I guess, joy or pleasure. Can lack of, I guess, joy or pleasure. Can you kind of define what that is and why you kind of define what that is and why you kind of define what that is and why why it's so important to understand? why it's so important to understand? why it's so important to understand? >> It's a word that's been around for close >> It's a word that's been around for close >> It's a word that's been around for close to 200 years in medicine. And it's to 200 years in medicine. And it's to 200 years in medicine. And it's something I think a lot of people something I think a lot of people something I think a lot of people experience this, you know, lack of experience this, you know, lack of experience this, you know, lack of feeling excited about things, lack of feeling excited about things, lack of feeling excited about things, lack of interest, feeling me blah, right? Many interest, feeling me blah, right? Many interest, feeling me blah, right? Many of us go through periods of our time of us go through periods of our time of us go through periods of our time when things just don't light us up, but when things just don't light us up, but when things just don't light us up, but we don't know that there's an actual we don't know that there's an actual we don't know that there's an actual term for that. term for that. term for that. >> We just think that's life. >> We just think that's life. >> We just think that's life. >> I often tell my clients that that's not >> I often tell my clients that that's not >> I often tell my clients that that's not that's not the way that life is made to that's not the way that life is made to that's not the way that life is made to be. We were built with the DNA for joy. be. We were built with the DNA for joy. be. We were built with the DNA for joy. >> It is literally encoded in our DNA. >> It is literally encoded in our DNA. >> It is literally encoded in our DNA. >> So why is it that we can't access it? >> So why is it that we can't access it? >> So why is it that we can't access it? And I think looking at children because And I think looking at children because And I think looking at children because I I I >> I treat children, adolescents, adults >> I treat children, adolescents, adults >> I treat children, adolescents, adults and elders in my practice and I have and elders in my practice and I have and elders in my practice and I have these cameras in my lab because these cameras in my lab because these cameras in my lab because sometimes kids are busy bodies. They sometimes kids are busy bodies. They sometimes kids are busy bodies. They have ADG that you don't want them have ADG that you don't want them have ADG that you don't want them running out, right? I observe them in running out, right? I observe them in running out, right? I observe them in the waiting area and a child will be the waiting area and a child will be the waiting area and a child will be like sitting on the furniture and then like sitting on the furniture and then like sitting on the furniture and then standing on the furniture, jumping off standing on the furniture, jumping off standing on the furniture, jumping off making, you know, paper planes and so making, you know, paper planes and so making, you know, paper planes and so forth, having all of this excitement, forth, having all of this excitement, forth, having all of this excitement, >> joy. >> joy. >> joy. >> Joy. Yeah. And you don't have to teach >> Joy. Yeah. And you don't have to teach >> Joy. Yeah. And you don't have to teach them how to do that. Whereas the adult them how to do that. Whereas the adult them how to do that. Whereas the adult who has it all will be sitting there on who has it all will be sitting there on who has it all will be sitting there on their phone on their devices and then their phone on their devices and then their phone on their devices and then like coming into the session super like coming into the session super like coming into the session super stressed you know their mind is stressed you know their mind is stressed you know their mind is somewhere else. So by the time they somewhere else. So by the time they somewhere else. So by the time they actually get engaged in the therapy we actually get engaged in the therapy we actually get engaged in the therapy we have 5 minutes left. Right. have 5 minutes left. Right. have 5 minutes left. Right. >> So we're built with the DNA for joy but >> So we're built with the DNA for joy but >> So we're built with the DNA for joy but then things happen, life happens, trauma then things happen, life happens, trauma then things happen, life happens, trauma happens and we lose sight of it. We happens and we lose sight of it. We happens and we lose sight of it. We can't access it. can't access it. can't access it. >> Yeah. And I think, you know, you talk >> Yeah. And I think, you know, you talk >> Yeah. And I think, you know, you talk about these sort of traumas. It doesn't about these sort of traumas. It doesn't about these sort of traumas. It doesn't have to be a big heavy duty trauma, but have to be a big heavy duty trauma, but have to be a big heavy duty trauma, but these these little sort of micro cuts to these these little sort of micro cuts to these these little sort of micro cuts to our psyche and our soul that happen when our psyche and our soul that happen when our psyche and our soul that happen when we're younger that kind of set us up for we're younger that kind of set us up for we're younger that kind of set us up for the programming for the programming for the programming for doing things in life in a way that that doing things in life in a way that that doing things in life in a way that that are kind of things we feel like we are kind of things we feel like we are kind of things we feel like we should or have to do should or have to do should or have to do >> without actually being authentic. And >> without actually being authentic. And >> without actually being authentic. And whether it's people pleasing or you know whether it's people pleasing or you know whether it's people pleasing or you know overachieving in different ways people overachieving in different ways people overachieving in different ways people don't really have a language for what don't really have a language for what don't really have a language for what this experience is which is I'm not this experience is which is I'm not this experience is which is I'm not really fully alive you know really fully alive you know really fully alive you know >> I don't wake up every morning go hell >> I don't wake up every morning go hell >> I don't wake up every morning go hell yeah I'm like so excited to be alive yeah I'm like so excited to be alive yeah I'm like so excited to be alive what's going on today right that's what what's going on today right that's what what's going on today right that's what we should be feeling what I'd love you we should be feeling what I'd love you we should be feeling what I'd love you to sort of walk us through is how do to sort of walk us through is how do to sort of walk us through is how do people identify if they're in this thing people identify if they're in this thing people identify if they're in this thing you have a a quiz or a scale to kind of you have a a quiz or a scale to kind of you have a a quiz or a scale to kind of recognize yourself if you're in this recognize yourself if you're in this recognize yourself if you're in this sort of state can you kind of walk us sort of state can you kind of walk us sort of state can you kind of walk us through what that is so people can see through what that is so people can see through what that is so people can see oh is this me or what are we talking oh is this me or what are we talking oh is this me or what are we talking about here. about here. about here. >> Yeah, it was really important for me to >> Yeah, it was really important for me to >> Yeah, it was really important for me to create these rating scales because you create these rating scales because you create these rating scales because you know in psychiatry it's really difficult know in psychiatry it's really difficult know in psychiatry it's really difficult to say okay let me get a blood test and to say okay let me get a blood test and to say okay let me get a blood test and then okay you have depression. There's then okay you have depression. There's then okay you have depression. There's just nothing like that. We don't have a just nothing like that. We don't have a just nothing like that. We don't have a let's scan your brain and you definitely let's scan your brain and you definitely let's scan your brain and you definitely have this. There are correlations, there have this. There are correlations, there have this. There are correlations, there are patterns, are patterns, are patterns, >> but there's just no direct test. We use >> but there's just no direct test. We use >> but there's just no direct test. We use psychometric rating skills in my lab in psychometric rating skills in my lab in psychometric rating skills in my lab in order to get a medication FDA approved. order to get a medication FDA approved. order to get a medication FDA approved. We participate in these clinical trials We participate in these clinical trials We participate in these clinical trials and these trials are standardized. So and these trials are standardized. So and these trials are standardized. So these sites all over the world use the these sites all over the world use the these sites all over the world use the same psychometric rating scales and same psychometric rating scales and same psychometric rating scales and we're videotaped or audio tape because we're videotaped or audio tape because we're videotaped or audio tape because we want to make sure that the data is we want to make sure that the data is we want to make sure that the data is clean and consistent. clean and consistent. clean and consistent. >> But a lot of times the rating scales are >> But a lot of times the rating scales are >> But a lot of times the rating scales are just so archaic. And one of the ones just so archaic. And one of the ones just so archaic. And one of the ones that I use, I mean one of the pioneers that I use, I mean one of the pioneers that I use, I mean one of the pioneers in joy and happiness is the Snaith in joy and happiness is the Snaith in joy and happiness is the Snaith Hamilton rating scale, the Shaps. Hamilton rating scale, the Shaps. Hamilton rating scale, the Shaps. >> Yeah. But there are questions on there >> Yeah. But there are questions on there >> Yeah. But there are questions on there that are very, I guess, out of touch, that are very, I guess, out of touch, that are very, I guess, out of touch, right? Like when and it's a a British right? Like when and it's a a British right? Like when and it's a a British scale. So things like, you know, when scale. So things like, you know, when scale. So things like, you know, when you drink when you sip your tea, how do you drink when you sip your tea, how do you drink when you sip your tea, how do you feel? You know, like people don't you feel? You know, like people don't you feel? You know, like people don't sip tea in America. They just don't not sip tea in America. They just don't not sip tea in America. They just don't not >> drink tea and scones in the afternoon. >> drink tea and scones in the afternoon. >> drink tea and scones in the afternoon. What's your state of mind? What's your state of mind? What's your state of mind? >> So I had to update that scale to be >> So I had to update that scale to be >> So I had to update that scale to be relevant. relevant. relevant. >> And so I added things that are daily >> And so I added things that are daily >> And so I added things that are daily pleasures in modern times. And when you pleasures in modern times. And when you pleasures in modern times. And when you think about joy, it's not just this one think about joy, it's not just this one think about joy, it's not just this one feeling, this one emotion of happy. Joy, feeling, this one emotion of happy. Joy, feeling, this one emotion of happy. Joy, it's a plethora of sensations. So when it's a plethora of sensations. So when it's a plethora of sensations. So when you're adding up points of joy, you're you're adding up points of joy, you're you're adding up points of joy, you're asking people things like when you ate asking people things like when you ate asking people things like when you ate your food, was it savory? Did you did your food, was it savory? Did you did your food, was it savory? Did you did you taste it? When you were lonely and you taste it? When you were lonely and you taste it? When you were lonely and you reached out to a loved one, did you you reached out to a loved one, did you you reached out to a loved one, did you feel connected, seen, and heard? You feel connected, seen, and heard? You feel connected, seen, and heard? You know, when you were stressed, believe it know, when you were stressed, believe it know, when you were stressed, believe it or not, stress is a part of joy. Were or not, stress is a part of joy. Were or not, stress is a part of joy. Were you able to calm and self soothe? when you able to calm and self soothe? when you able to calm and self soothe? when you were tired and you took a nap, did you were tired and you took a nap, did you were tired and you took a nap, did you feel well rested? Did you wake up you feel well rested? Did you wake up you feel well rested? Did you wake up refreshed? You know, these are all these refreshed? You know, these are all these refreshed? You know, these are all these basic human experiences basic human experiences basic human experiences >> that when we add it up in the research, >> that when we add it up in the research, >> that when we add it up in the research, that's how we see if you're becoming that's how we see if you're becoming that's how we see if you're becoming happier. happier. happier. >> But when people think of the ideas of >> But when people think of the ideas of >> But when people think of the ideas of being happy, they think of when I get a being happy, they think of when I get a being happy, they think of when I get a partner, I'll be happy. When I finally partner, I'll be happy. When I finally partner, I'll be happy. When I finally pay off my debt, I'll be happy. You pay off my debt, I'll be happy. You pay off my debt, I'll be happy. You know, when I graduate, I'll be happy. know, when I graduate, I'll be happy. know, when I graduate, I'll be happy. It's always something external that has It's always something external that has It's always something external that has to happen. to happen. to happen. >> Joy is that internal experience, right? >> Joy is that internal experience, right? >> Joy is that internal experience, right? Yeah. You know that once you finally get Yeah. You know that once you finally get Yeah. You know that once you finally get the 20, the 20, the 20, >> it doesn't work like that. Doesn't work >> it doesn't work like that. Doesn't work >> it doesn't work like that. Doesn't work like that, like that, like that, >> right? Yeah. I mean, I was the same way. >> right? Yeah. I mean, I was the same way. >> right? Yeah. I mean, I was the same way. Yeah. It was always I came from a Yeah. It was always I came from a Yeah. It was always I came from a background of scarcity. background of scarcity. background of scarcity. >> So, I came to this country when I was >> So, I came to this country when I was >> So, I came to this country when I was very young from Trinidad. very young from Trinidad. very young from Trinidad. >> Sometimes we didn't have food to eat at >> Sometimes we didn't have food to eat at >> Sometimes we didn't have food to eat at times. And I always thought like I'm times. And I always thought like I'm times. And I always thought like I'm going to get educated. I'll become a going to get educated. I'll become a going to get educated. I'll become a doctor, make lots of money, and I'll be doctor, make lots of money, and I'll be doctor, make lots of money, and I'll be happy. happy. happy. >> But then you get, you know, you get into >> But then you get, you know, you get into >> But then you get, you know, you get into the Ivy League medical school, still not the Ivy League medical school, still not the Ivy League medical school, still not happy. You know, you become the the happy. You know, you become the the happy. You know, you become the the doctor, still not happy. you have a doctor, still not happy. you have a doctor, still not happy. you have a successful business still unhappy successful business still unhappy successful business still unhappy married you know all these things so I married you know all these things so I married you know all these things so I you know grew up thinking that if I you know grew up thinking that if I you know grew up thinking that if I finally achieve these things I will finally achieve these things I will finally achieve these things I will finally feel full and I was actually finally feel full and I was actually finally feel full and I was actually >> getting further away from joy right >> getting further away from joy right >> getting further away from joy right >> so creating this skill is really >> so creating this skill is really >> so creating this skill is really important because I want people to important because I want people to important because I want people to realize that joy is within their reach realize that joy is within their reach realize that joy is within their reach all of those points that you're leaving all of those points that you're leaving all of those points that you're leaving on the table on the table on the table >> when I started talking about the >> when I started talking about the >> when I started talking about the anodonia rating skill I think on one anodonia rating skill I think on one anodonia rating skill I think on one podcast 10,000 people filled it out at podcast 10,000 people filled it out at podcast 10,000 people filled it out at once and it website. Wow. once and it website. Wow. once and it website. Wow. >> So, I was on to something. People were >> So, I was on to something. People were >> So, I was on to something. People were feeling this lack of joy. They just feeling this lack of joy. They just feeling this lack of joy. They just didn't know that there was a name for didn't know that there was a name for didn't know that there was a name for it. it. it. >> How How do people find it? Don't I know >> How How do people find it? Don't I know >> How How do people find it? Don't I know people can go, "How do I take that people can go, "How do I take that people can go, "How do I take that quiz?" quiz?" quiz?" >> It's on my website, >> It's on my website, >> It's on my website, >> drudith joseph.com. Okay. >> drudith joseph.com. Okay. >> drudith joseph.com. Okay. >> Under quizzes, and there are several >> Under quizzes, and there are several >> Under quizzes, and there are several there. There's the anidonia, there's the there. There's the anidonia, there's the there. There's the anidonia, there's the menopause uh and mental health quiz, the menopause uh and mental health quiz, the menopause uh and mental health quiz, the ties quiz, uh the high functioning quiz, ties quiz, uh the high functioning quiz, ties quiz, uh the high functioning quiz, and a trauma inventory. and a trauma inventory. and a trauma inventory. >> Okay, good. Well, that's good. It's good >> Okay, good. Well, that's good. It's good >> Okay, good. Well, that's good. It's good to kind of get a a metric for how you're to kind of get a a metric for how you're to kind of get a a metric for how you're feeling. You know, you're right. They're feeling. You know, you're right. They're feeling. You know, you're right. They're not there's not a really clear single not there's not a really clear single not there's not a really clear single biomarker or imaging test where you can biomarker or imaging test where you can biomarker or imaging test where you can say this is depression or this is say this is depression or this is say this is depression or this is anxiety or this is any kind of mental anxiety or this is any kind of mental anxiety or this is any kind of mental distress. But but there are biomarkers distress. But but there are biomarkers distress. But but there are biomarkers of mental health like there are things of mental health like there are things of mental health like there are things that you know that that are causitive that you know that that are causitive that you know that that are causitive that you know sometimes are not because that you know sometimes are not because that you know sometimes are not because of your psych psychological state but of your psych psychological state but of your psych psychological state but your biological state. So if you're your biological state. So if you're your biological state. So if you're hypothyroid you're going to be hypothyroid you're going to be hypothyroid you're going to be depressed. If your vitamin D is low depressed. If your vitamin D is low depressed. If your vitamin D is low you're going to be depressed. If you you're going to be depressed. If you you're going to be depressed. If you don't have enough B vitamins you're don't have enough B vitamins you're don't have enough B vitamins you're going to be depressed. It's like there's going to be depressed. It's like there's going to be depressed. It's like there's there are things where if you have heavy there are things where if you have heavy there are things where if you have heavy metals, you'll be depressed. So there metals, you'll be depressed. So there metals, you'll be depressed. So there there's things that that are there's things that that are there's things that that are physiological causes that you should for physiological causes that you should for physiological causes that you should for sure rule out, but if you've done that sure rule out, but if you've done that sure rule out, but if you've done that and you know, function health is a great and you know, function health is a great and you know, function health is a great platform to get all that information platform to get all that information platform to get all that information like, oh my omega-3s are super low. like, oh my omega-3s are super low. like, oh my omega-3s are super low. Well, omega-3s are important for mood Well, omega-3s are important for mood Well, omega-3s are important for mood and mental health. So, you know, there and mental health. So, you know, there and mental health. So, you know, there there's things you can find out, but if there's things you can find out, but if there's things you can find out, but if all those are fine and you still don't all those are fine and you still don't all those are fine and you still don't feel the sense of pleasure, joy, feel the sense of pleasure, joy, feel the sense of pleasure, joy, well-being, which I think is kind of our well-being, which I think is kind of our well-being, which I think is kind of our birthright. birthright. birthright. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. These quizzes really help you >> Right. These quizzes really help you >> Right. These quizzes really help you identify like where you're at. Then you identify like where you're at. Then you identify like where you're at. Then you can start to think about how to navigate can start to think about how to navigate can start to think about how to navigate out of that. And I will talk about that out of that. And I will talk about that out of that. And I will talk about that you have this framework called the five you have this framework called the five you have this framework called the five Vss which I really like which is a way Vss which I really like which is a way Vss which I really like which is a way of sort of reorienting your your life to of sort of reorienting your your life to of sort of reorienting your your life to towards joy and happiness which I love. towards joy and happiness which I love. towards joy and happiness which I love. I mean I think it's like we we talk so I mean I think it's like we we talk so I mean I think it's like we we talk so much about disease and pathology and all much about disease and pathology and all much about disease and pathology and all this stuff. We don't talk about what is this stuff. We don't talk about what is this stuff. We don't talk about what is it to be a fully expressed human. You it to be a fully expressed human. You it to be a fully expressed human. You know you talk about this idea of high know you talk about this idea of high know you talk about this idea of high functioning depression and and I as I functioning depression and and I as I functioning depression and and I as I said you know we both sounds like we said you know we both sounds like we said you know we both sounds like we both experienced that at some point in both experienced that at some point in both experienced that at some point in our lives. How is that different from our lives. How is that different from our lives. How is that different from just burnout from just like overwork and just burnout from just like overwork and just burnout from just like overwork and overdoing? How is that different? overdoing? How is that different? overdoing? How is that different? >> Well, burnout is a workplace phenomenon. >> Well, burnout is a workplace phenomenon. >> Well, burnout is a workplace phenomenon. And when you if you look at the history And when you if you look at the history And when you if you look at the history of burnout, it really only starts to of burnout, it really only starts to of burnout, it really only starts to show up 30 40 years ago in the concrete show up 30 40 years ago in the concrete show up 30 40 years ago in the concrete medical literature, but that doesn't medical literature, but that doesn't medical literature, but that doesn't mean that it didn't exist before. You mean that it didn't exist before. You mean that it didn't exist before. You know, I think people have, especially in know, I think people have, especially in know, I think people have, especially in the industrial age and with the rise of the industrial age and with the rise of the industrial age and with the rise of capitalism, burnout is something that capitalism, burnout is something that capitalism, burnout is something that has been around for a while. has been around for a while. has been around for a while. >> But it is an occupational hazard. So >> But it is an occupational hazard. So >> But it is an occupational hazard. So when the World Health Organization when the World Health Organization when the World Health Organization included it in the nomenclature or the included it in the nomenclature or the included it in the nomenclature or the literature, they looked at it as being literature, they looked at it as being literature, they looked at it as being caused by the workplace. So the caused by the workplace. So the caused by the workplace. So the workplace pressure is causing the workplace pressure is causing the workplace pressure is causing the symptoms. And I often have this brain in symptoms. And I often have this brain in symptoms. And I often have this brain in my lab and I use it to demonstrate um my lab and I use it to demonstrate um my lab and I use it to demonstrate um you know these principles with my you know these principles with my you know these principles with my patients. But like imagine this is the patients. But like imagine this is the patients. But like imagine this is the brain. This is the brain in the brain. This is the brain in the brain. This is the brain in the workplace. And you're getting all this workplace. And you're getting all this workplace. And you're getting all this pressure, right, and stress from the pressure, right, and stress from the pressure, right, and stress from the workplace. And you're experiencing workplace. And you're experiencing workplace. And you're experiencing symptoms of irritability, low energy, symptoms of irritability, low energy, symptoms of irritability, low energy, low motivation, anhidonia, lack of joy. low motivation, anhidonia, lack of joy. low motivation, anhidonia, lack of joy. And then you remove that brain from the And then you remove that brain from the And then you remove that brain from the workplace. Over time, you start to feel workplace. Over time, you start to feel workplace. Over time, you start to feel better. You know, you're getting better. You know, you're getting better. You know, you're getting distance from the stressor. High distance from the stressor. High distance from the stressor. High functioning depression is different. So functioning depression is different. So functioning depression is different. So this is the high functioning brain in this is the high functioning brain in this is the high functioning brain in the workplace. You still have the the workplace. You still have the the workplace. You still have the stress. The pressure is from the stress. The pressure is from the stress. The pressure is from the outside. The symptoms are there. you outside. The symptoms are there. you outside. The symptoms are there. you know, low motivation, anhidonia, know, low motivation, anhidonia, know, low motivation, anhidonia, irritability, low energy. You remove irritability, low energy. You remove irritability, low energy. You remove that brain from the workplace and they that brain from the workplace and they that brain from the workplace and they don't get better. This is someone who don't get better. This is someone who don't get better. This is someone who when they sit still, they cannot relax. when they sit still, they cannot relax. when they sit still, they cannot relax. When they're not working, they feel When they're not working, they feel When they're not working, they feel restless. They're humans doing, not restless. They're humans doing, not restless. They're humans doing, not human beings, right? human beings, right? human beings, right? >> And I thought about this because there >> And I thought about this because there >> And I thought about this because there must be something in the individual that must be something in the individual that must be something in the individual that no matter what setting they're in, no matter what setting they're in, no matter what setting they're in, they're experiencing these symptoms. And they're experiencing these symptoms. And they're experiencing these symptoms. And in the study that we conducted in the in the study that we conducted in the in the study that we conducted in the lab, the first peer-reviewed study in lab, the first peer-reviewed study in lab, the first peer-reviewed study in the world on high functioning the world on high functioning the world on high functioning depression, what we found was that there depression, what we found was that there depression, what we found was that there was a high correlation between was a high correlation between was a high correlation between unprocessed trauma and pain and HFD, unprocessed trauma and pain and HFD, unprocessed trauma and pain and HFD, high functioning depression. high functioning depression. high functioning depression. >> So the theory is that okay, they're in >> So the theory is that okay, they're in >> So the theory is that okay, they're in the workplace, they have the symptoms, the workplace, they have the symptoms, the workplace, they have the symptoms, they're out of the workplace, they still they're out of the workplace, they still they're out of the workplace, they still have the symptoms. That unresolved have the symptoms. That unresolved have the symptoms. That unresolved trauma and pain is being carried with trauma and pain is being carried with trauma and pain is being carried with them. It's not being processed. And them. It's not being processed. And them. It's not being processed. And that's why no matter what setting that's why no matter what setting that's why no matter what setting they're in, they're experiencing these they're in, they're experiencing these they're in, they're experiencing these symptoms. As we head into the busiest symptoms. As we head into the busiest symptoms. As we head into the busiest stretch of the year, longer days, stretch of the year, longer days, stretch of the year, longer days, travel, more on your plate, your immune travel, more on your plate, your immune travel, more on your plate, your immune system is working overtime. And that's system is working overtime. And that's system is working overtime. 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That's bio pt i m i z.com/heimman z.com/heimman z.com/heimman and use the codeman today. you know, and use the codeman today. you know, and use the codeman today. you know, rather than trauma in the way that we rather than trauma in the way that we rather than trauma in the way that we classically think about it because in classically think about it because in classically think about it because in the lab we've conducted PTSD studies as the lab we've conducted PTSD studies as the lab we've conducted PTSD studies as well. When you think about trauma, you well. When you think about trauma, you well. When you think about trauma, you think of people avoiding people, places, think of people avoiding people, places, think of people avoiding people, places, situations, trying to avoid triggers. situations, trying to avoid triggers. situations, trying to avoid triggers. >> But with high functioning folks, they >> But with high functioning folks, they >> But with high functioning folks, they are avoiding not people, places, are avoiding not people, places, are avoiding not people, places, situations. They're avoiding processing situations. They're avoiding processing situations. They're avoiding processing the pain by busying themselves. the pain by busying themselves. the pain by busying themselves. >> So that's why when they sit still, >> So that's why when they sit still, >> So that's why when they sit still, they're restless. When they're not they're restless. When they're not they're restless. When they're not working, they feel empty. working, they feel empty. working, they feel empty. >> They're constantly doing. They're not >> They're constantly doing. They're not >> They're constantly doing. They're not being. M being. M being. M >> and that concept I think really >> and that concept I think really >> and that concept I think really resonates with a lot of us because this resonates with a lot of us because this resonates with a lot of us because this an Hadon this why do I feel this way an Hadon this why do I feel this way an Hadon this why do I feel this way when I'm like not doing anything when I'm like not doing anything when I'm like not doing anything >> it's all tied together the traumatized >> it's all tied together the traumatized >> it's all tied together the traumatized unhealed brain has a very difficult time unhealed brain has a very difficult time unhealed brain has a very difficult time accessing joy accessing joy accessing joy >> that's that's really an important >> that's that's really an important >> that's that's really an important framework here which is there's framework here which is there's framework here which is there's underlying things that you haven't underlying things that you haven't underlying things that you haven't processed that show up in this way and processed that show up in this way and processed that show up in this way and that that it's it's these sort of little that that it's it's these sort of little that that it's it's these sort of little or big traumas that happen as as you go or big traumas that happen as as you go or big traumas that happen as as you go your life, especially when you're a kid, your life, especially when you're a kid, your life, especially when you're a kid, that sort of set the framework of how that sort of set the framework of how that sort of set the framework of how you approach your life. And and I think you approach your life. And and I think you approach your life. And and I think most of us don't really have the tools most of us don't really have the tools most of us don't really have the tools and the knowledge and the understanding and the knowledge and the understanding and the knowledge and the understanding of actually how to act resolve that of actually how to act resolve that of actually how to act resolve that trauma or to actually kind of work trauma or to actually kind of work trauma or to actually kind of work through how to process it in a way that through how to process it in a way that through how to process it in a way that gets us free from it. And I and I want gets us free from it. And I and I want gets us free from it. And I and I want to sort of go into in a minute how how to sort of go into in a minute how how to sort of go into in a minute how how you've kind of created a framework to do you've kind of created a framework to do you've kind of created a framework to do that, which I think is really important. that, which I think is really important. that, which I think is really important. But I I kind of wanted to double down on But I I kind of wanted to double down on But I I kind of wanted to double down on this word anhidonia and hedonism because this word anhidonia and hedonism because this word anhidonia and hedonism because it comes from the word hedenism. And it comes from the word hedenism. And it comes from the word hedenism. And hedonism is basically a a sort of a hedonism is basically a a sort of a hedonism is basically a a sort of a philosophical framework from the Greeks philosophical framework from the Greeks philosophical framework from the Greeks which you know we we typically think of which you know we we typically think of which you know we we typically think of it as sex, drugs and rock and roll and it as sex, drugs and rock and roll and it as sex, drugs and rock and roll and you know kind of in a in a porative you know kind of in a in a porative you know kind of in a in a porative sense you're a hedenist. It's bad. It's sense you're a hedenist. It's bad. It's sense you're a hedenist. It's bad. It's you're seeking pleasure for pleasure you're seeking pleasure for pleasure you're seeking pleasure for pleasure sake. But it's kind of this ethical sake. But it's kind of this ethical sake. But it's kind of this ethical theory that people should pursue theory that people should pursue theory that people should pursue happiness, pleasure, wellbeing and and happiness, pleasure, wellbeing and and happiness, pleasure, wellbeing and and it's it's not actually a a bad thing. it's it's not actually a a bad thing. it's it's not actually a a bad thing. And it's it's kind of like this this And it's it's kind of like this this And it's it's kind of like this this goal of of trying to find long-term goal of of trying to find long-term goal of of trying to find long-term fulfillment, purpose, connection, fulfillment, purpose, connection, fulfillment, purpose, connection, growth. And it's kind of a reframe of growth. And it's kind of a reframe of growth. And it's kind of a reframe of hedenism. hedenism. hedenism. >> So, in a way, what you're what you're >> So, in a way, what you're what you're >> So, in a way, what you're what you're kind of encouraging us all to be is find kind of encouraging us all to be is find kind of encouraging us all to be is find our way back to hedenism, right? our way back to hedenism, right? our way back to hedenism, right? >> Well, not necessarily hedonism. It's >> Well, not necessarily hedonism. It's >> Well, not necessarily hedonism. It's more about those simple joys that we more about those simple joys that we more about those simple joys that we leave on the table. leave on the table. leave on the table. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like for example, >> Right. Like for example, >> Right. Like for example, >> but it's pleasure. It's find like you're >> but it's pleasure. It's find like you're >> but it's pleasure. It's find like you're saying it's antidoton is a lack of saying it's antidoton is a lack of saying it's antidoton is a lack of pleasure in things, right? So it's like pleasure in things, right? So it's like pleasure in things, right? So it's like how do you get back to the the sense of how do you get back to the the sense of how do you get back to the the sense of joy and pleasure in things as a as a joy and pleasure in things as a as a joy and pleasure in things as a as a framework? I I kind of like that framework? I I kind of like that framework? I I kind of like that >> more controlled hedonism, more strategic >> more controlled hedonism, more strategic >> more controlled hedonism, more strategic and intentional hedenism versus just and intentional hedenism versus just and intentional hedenism versus just seeking pleasure out of a lack of seeking pleasure out of a lack of seeking pleasure out of a lack of understanding what's happening inside. understanding what's happening inside. understanding what's happening inside. >> And you know when you think about >> And you know when you think about >> And you know when you think about processing and acknowledging what you're processing and acknowledging what you're processing and acknowledging what you're going through, you know, in a given day going through, you know, in a given day going through, you know, in a given day I do this now. I didn't years ago when I I do this now. I didn't years ago when I I do this now. I didn't years ago when I wasn't self-aware of what I was going wasn't self-aware of what I was going wasn't self-aware of what I was going through and why I was working so hard through and why I was working so hard through and why I was working so hard and what I was trying to compensate for. and what I was trying to compensate for. and what I was trying to compensate for. But now when I do these tiny, you know, But now when I do these tiny, you know, But now when I do these tiny, you know, adjustments or intentional adjustments adjustments or intentional adjustments adjustments or intentional adjustments in my day, I'm thinking, well, why am I in my day, I'm thinking, well, why am I in my day, I'm thinking, well, why am I getting worked up by this email that I getting worked up by this email that I getting worked up by this email that I just saw? You know, like how is that just saw? You know, like how is that just saw? You know, like how is that going to increase a point of joy for me? going to increase a point of joy for me? going to increase a point of joy for me? It's not. It's actually going to reduce It's not. It's actually going to reduce It's not. It's actually going to reduce one point. And that's one point that I'm one point. And that's one point that I'm one point. And that's one point that I'm acknowledging I'm going to leave on the acknowledging I'm going to leave on the acknowledging I'm going to leave on the table just to focus on this one thing. table just to focus on this one thing. table just to focus on this one thing. So I do these like very tiny adjustments So I do these like very tiny adjustments So I do these like very tiny adjustments throughout the day that I've had to throughout the day that I've had to throughout the day that I've had to teach myself how to do. But the first teach myself how to do. But the first teach myself how to do. But the first step was having to acknowledge well what step was having to acknowledge well what step was having to acknowledge well what what am I actually experiencing now? Let what am I actually experiencing now? Let what am I actually experiencing now? Let me face what I'm going through and then me face what I'm going through and then me face what I'm going through and then I know what to do next. I know what to do next. I know what to do next. >> As you kind of have this sort of >> As you kind of have this sort of >> As you kind of have this sort of reframing you you've clearly worked reframing you you've clearly worked reframing you you've clearly worked through stuff that was the origin story through stuff that was the origin story through stuff that was the origin story of why this pattern got set up. And it's of why this pattern got set up. And it's of why this pattern got set up. And it's it's true for so many people. I I know it's true for so many people. I I know it's true for so many people. I I know for myself when I I was reading your for myself when I I was reading your for myself when I I was reading your book and kind of going through the book and kind of going through the book and kind of going through the philosophy that you developed and the philosophy that you developed and the philosophy that you developed and the approach I was like oh this is kind of approach I was like oh this is kind of approach I was like oh this is kind of me like I'm I'm somebody who's you know me like I'm I'm somebody who's you know me like I'm I'm somebody who's you know selfworth was tied to achievement to selfworth was tied to achievement to selfworth was tied to achievement to overdoing to success to more overdoing to success to more overdoing to success to more productivity and and know and I know productivity and and know and I know productivity and and know and I know where now it came from because I've had where now it came from because I've had where now it came from because I've had to do excavation into my own life. I'm to do excavation into my own life. I'm to do excavation into my own life. I'm I'm curious for you like how do people I'm curious for you like how do people I'm curious for you like how do people go back and look at the their life and go back and look at the their life and go back and look at the their life and their traumas and their childhood to their traumas and their childhood to their traumas and their childhood to identify what are the things that identify what are the things that identify what are the things that happened and and what are the stories happened and and what are the stories happened and and what are the stories that get created and how how does this that get created and how how does this that get created and how how does this pattern get set up for people early on pattern get set up for people early on pattern get set up for people early on because I think in order to really get because I think in order to really get because I think in order to really get rid of it or to to deal with it you have rid of it or to to deal with it you have rid of it or to to deal with it you have to understand it. to understand it. to understand it. >> One of the symptoms of trauma is >> One of the symptoms of trauma is >> One of the symptoms of trauma is forgetting. forgetting. forgetting. >> Yeah. There's like a 30 list uh >> Yeah. There's like a 30 list uh >> Yeah. There's like a 30 list uh checklist of trauma symptoms called the checklist of trauma symptoms called the checklist of trauma symptoms called the on the CAPS 5 which is the VA's the VA on the CAPS 5 which is the VA's the VA on the CAPS 5 which is the VA's the VA hospital's gold standard for assessing hospital's gold standard for assessing hospital's gold standard for assessing PTSD and combat veterans but we use the PTSD and combat veterans but we use the PTSD and combat veterans but we use the CAPS 5 in for civilians CAPS 5 in for civilians CAPS 5 in for civilians >> and think about it 30 plus symptoms of >> and think about it 30 plus symptoms of >> and think about it 30 plus symptoms of trauma. Most of us only think of like trauma. Most of us only think of like trauma. Most of us only think of like flashbacks, nightmares, hypervigilance, flashbacks, nightmares, hypervigilance, flashbacks, nightmares, hypervigilance, but there are so much more. One of those but there are so much more. One of those but there are so much more. One of those is forgetting. So your brain will push is forgetting. So your brain will push is forgetting. So your brain will push down the memories to protect you down the memories to protect you down the memories to protect you >> so you can function, right? >> so you can function, right? >> so you can function, right? >> Which is what, you know, the old >> Which is what, you know, the old >> Which is what, you know, the old psychiatry used to really go for, right? psychiatry used to really go for, right? psychiatry used to really go for, right? Being able to function. Being able to function. Being able to function. >> But if you can't remember, there are >> But if you can't remember, there are >> But if you can't remember, there are different tools that you can use. different tools that you can use. different tools that you can use. Usually you want to work with a Usually you want to work with a Usually you want to work with a therapist because, you know, your brain therapist because, you know, your brain therapist because, you know, your brain is pushing those memories down for a is pushing those memories down for a is pushing those memories down for a reason and you want to feel safe. reason and you want to feel safe. reason and you want to feel safe. >> And I use transitional objects in my >> And I use transitional objects in my >> And I use transitional objects in my practice all the time. There are these practice all the time. There are these practice all the time. There are these tools that are real tools like pictures, tools that are real tools like pictures, tools that are real tools like pictures, blankets, tokens from childhood. They're blankets, tokens from childhood. They're blankets, tokens from childhood. They're basically memorabilia that sometimes can basically memorabilia that sometimes can basically memorabilia that sometimes can jog the mind to remember certain things. jog the mind to remember certain things. jog the mind to remember certain things. So, I'll ask my patients who can't So, I'll ask my patients who can't So, I'll ask my patients who can't remember the last time they really felt remember the last time they really felt remember the last time they really felt joy to bring in things from childhood or joy to bring in things from childhood or joy to bring in things from childhood or from past, you know, memories or from past, you know, memories or from past, you know, memories or experiences where they may have been experiences where they may have been experiences where they may have been happier. So they'll bring in these happier. So they'll bring in these happier. So they'll bring in these objects and then we'll look at them objects and then we'll look at them objects and then we'll look at them together and then we'll talk about them together and then we'll talk about them together and then we'll talk about them and it is excavating. It's like being and it is excavating. It's like being and it is excavating. It's like being the archaeologist of your own the archaeologist of your own the archaeologist of your own psychological history. You're dusting psychological history. You're dusting psychological history. You're dusting off the past. You're trying to discover off the past. You're trying to discover off the past. You're trying to discover the points of joy that got lost and the points of joy that got lost and the points of joy that got lost and buried along the way. And I'll give you buried along the way. And I'll give you buried along the way. And I'll give you an example of a of a client, obviously an example of a of a client, obviously an example of a of a client, obviously disguised, but he for a long time did disguised, but he for a long time did disguised, but he for a long time did not understand why he couldn't be happy. not understand why he couldn't be happy. not understand why he couldn't be happy. He was a typical New Yorker coming to my He was a typical New Yorker coming to my He was a typical New Yorker coming to my office. I have everything. Dr. J. My office. I have everything. Dr. J. My office. I have everything. Dr. J. My patients call me Dr. J. you know, why is patients call me Dr. J. you know, why is patients call me Dr. J. you know, why is it that I can't experience joy? You it that I can't experience joy? You it that I can't experience joy? You know, why am I blah? know, why am I blah? know, why am I blah? >> And so, we dusted off the past. We >> And so, we dusted off the past. We >> And so, we dusted off the past. We looked at the old, you know, pictures looked at the old, you know, pictures looked at the old, you know, pictures and the items from his past. And we and the items from his past. And we and the items from his past. And we realized that when he was much younger, realized that when he was much younger, realized that when he was much younger, he used to spend a lot of time in he used to spend a lot of time in he used to spend a lot of time in nature. nature. nature. >> And I thought, well, you know, there are >> And I thought, well, you know, there are >> And I thought, well, you know, there are all these pictures, there's all these all these pictures, there's all these all these pictures, there's all these things. What happened? Well, you know, things. What happened? Well, you know, things. What happened? Well, you know, at around, you know, seven or eight, my at around, you know, seven or eight, my at around, you know, seven or eight, my parents got divorced and we used to camp parents got divorced and we used to camp parents got divorced and we used to camp all the time. We used to go out together all the time. We used to go out together all the time. We used to go out together as a family. And after that we just we as a family. And after that we just we as a family. And after that we just we just stopped you know just stopped you know just stopped you know >> and that was a very painful divorce for >> and that was a very painful divorce for >> and that was a very painful divorce for the family and he just they just the family and he just they just the family and he just they just collectively lost that joy. collectively lost that joy. collectively lost that joy. >> So his assignment with me was okay we're >> So his assignment with me was okay we're >> So his assignment with me was okay we're going to start baby steps. We're going going to start baby steps. We're going going to start baby steps. We're going to gradually expose your brain to the to gradually expose your brain to the to gradually expose your brain to the idea of getting back into nature. So, we idea of getting back into nature. So, we idea of getting back into nature. So, we started off with looking things up started off with looking things up started off with looking things up online like hiking trails and then, you online like hiking trails and then, you online like hiking trails and then, you know, going to the boot store and know, going to the boot store and know, going to the boot store and getting some hiking boots and then going getting some hiking boots and then going getting some hiking boots and then going through the Central Park after work through the Central Park after work through the Central Park after work every day and slowly built up to these every day and slowly built up to these every day and slowly built up to these hikes upstate. And he was like, you hikes upstate. And he was like, you hikes upstate. And he was like, you know, my life isn't perfect. I still know, my life isn't perfect. I still know, my life isn't perfect. I still have bouts of depression, but I I can have bouts of depression, but I I can have bouts of depression, but I I can access these points of joy, access these points of joy, access these points of joy, >> which I think is I think people really >> which I think is I think people really >> which I think is I think people really need to understand the difference. The need to understand the difference. The need to understand the difference. The aim is not to get rid of the depression aim is not to get rid of the depression aim is not to get rid of the depression because depression is a it's a it's a because depression is a it's a it's a because depression is a it's a it's a chronic illness and maybe one day we chronic illness and maybe one day we chronic illness and maybe one day we will there are new medications being will there are new medications being will there are new medications being developed hopefully psychedelic therapy developed hopefully psychedelic therapy developed hopefully psychedelic therapy will you know really advance that but will you know really advance that but will you know really advance that but it's something that you have to manage it's something that you have to manage it's something that you have to manage at times right at times right at times right >> and so he can access these points of joy >> and so he can access these points of joy >> and so he can access these points of joy where there are weeks where he's being where there are weeks where he's being where there are weeks where he's being able to feel alive where he's excited able to feel alive where he's excited able to feel alive where he's excited where he's moving forward versus not where he's moving forward versus not where he's moving forward versus not having that at all in the past. It's having that at all in the past. It's having that at all in the past. It's about these small winds. It's almost about these small winds. It's almost about these small winds. It's almost like introducing play back into your like introducing play back into your like introducing play back into your life, right? life, right? life, right? >> Like you mentioned the kids in the >> Like you mentioned the kids in the >> Like you mentioned the kids in the waiting room playing around and fooling waiting room playing around and fooling waiting room playing around and fooling around and and that's kind of as adults around and and that's kind of as adults around and and that's kind of as adults we lose that sense of play and we lose that sense of play and we lose that sense of play and >> creativity. It's it's amazing. you talk >> creativity. It's it's amazing. you talk >> creativity. It's it's amazing. you talk a lot in the book about sort of this a lot in the book about sort of this a lot in the book about sort of this self-worth issues and fear as as sort of self-worth issues and fear as as sort of self-worth issues and fear as as sort of being linked and you know to why we do being linked and you know to why we do being linked and you know to why we do this and to like high productivity in this and to like high productivity in this and to like high productivity in life and and did fear and self worth life and and did fear and self worth life and and did fear and self worth drive this and I I know that was for drive this and I I know that was for drive this and I I know that was for sure for me like I didn't want to you sure for me like I didn't want to you sure for me like I didn't want to you know be like my dads who were failures know be like my dads who were failures know be like my dads who were failures and I was like afraid and that was part and I was like afraid and that was part and I was like afraid and that was part of my overachieving but I also was like of my overachieving but I also was like of my overachieving but I also was like >> you know to feel self-worth and seen and >> you know to feel self-worth and seen and >> you know to feel self-worth and seen and loved I felt like I had to over loved I felt like I had to over loved I felt like I had to over overachieve it wasn't conscious but it overachieve it wasn't conscious but it overachieve it wasn't conscious but it was like it was driving the show for a was like it was driving the show for a was like it was driving the show for a long time and you talk about these kind long time and you talk about these kind long time and you talk about these kind of tendencies of people pleasing or of tendencies of people pleasing or of tendencies of people pleasing or masochism like I was just working 100 masochism like I was just working 100 masochism like I was just working 100 hours a week. It was kind of hours a week. It was kind of hours a week. It was kind of masochistic. I didn't I never really masochistic. I didn't I never really masochistic. I didn't I never really thought of it that way until you kind of thought of it that way until you kind of thought of it that way until you kind of talked about it. But can you talk about talked about it. But can you talk about talked about it. But can you talk about what that means in this context of of what that means in this context of of what that means in this context of of your framework of of um you know high your framework of of um you know high your framework of of um you know high functioning uh depression and and and functioning uh depression and and and functioning uh depression and and and the sort of new model you're trying to the sort of new model you're trying to the sort of new model you're trying to get out there. Well, masochism is not get out there. Well, masochism is not get out there. Well, masochism is not just a dirty word in psychiatry, but just a dirty word in psychiatry, but just a dirty word in psychiatry, but when people, you know, in regular life when people, you know, in regular life when people, you know, in regular life think about massochism, they think of think about massochism, they think of think about massochism, they think of like SNM, right? But the masochism in like SNM, right? But the masochism in like SNM, right? But the masochism in psychiatry is different. So, masochistic psychiatry is different. So, masochistic psychiatry is different. So, masochistic personality disorder is one that was personality disorder is one that was personality disorder is one that was classified in like the old DSM, which is classified in like the old DSM, which is classified in like the old DSM, which is the diagnostic statistical manual, the diagnostic statistical manual, the diagnostic statistical manual, basically the Bible of psychiatry. And basically the Bible of psychiatry. And basically the Bible of psychiatry. And it was in there with this I think the it was in there with this I think the it was in there with this I think the last time it was there was like the 80s last time it was there was like the 80s last time it was there was like the 80s because there were these people who were because there were these people who were because there were these people who were classified as being you know people classified as being you know people classified as being you know people pleasers. Um they bent over backwards pleasers. Um they bent over backwards pleasers. Um they bent over backwards for others and didn't expect much in for others and didn't expect much in for others and didn't expect much in return. In fact they felt uncomfortable return. In fact they felt uncomfortable return. In fact they felt uncomfortable receiving praise and love. receiving praise and love. receiving praise and love. >> Uh people who basically don't think >> Uh people who basically don't think >> Uh people who basically don't think about their own needs and end up in about their own needs and end up in about their own needs and end up in these situations with those who these situations with those who these situations with those who >> treat them poorly or even at times abuse >> treat them poorly or even at times abuse >> treat them poorly or even at times abuse them. And the reason it was very uh them. And the reason it was very uh them. And the reason it was very uh political and it was removed from the political and it was removed from the political and it was removed from the DSM was because unfortunately a lot of DSM was because unfortunately a lot of DSM was because unfortunately a lot of practitioners were using the term practitioners were using the term practitioners were using the term masochistic personality disorder for masochistic personality disorder for masochistic personality disorder for women who were experiencing intimate women who were experiencing intimate women who were experiencing intimate partner violence or domestic violence. partner violence or domestic violence. partner violence or domestic violence. And so it was highly problematic. But I And so it was highly problematic. But I And so it was highly problematic. But I think that in getting rid of masochistic think that in getting rid of masochistic think that in getting rid of masochistic personality disorder, we we should have personality disorder, we we should have personality disorder, we we should have probably just kept in a little bit of probably just kept in a little bit of probably just kept in a little bit of the people pleasing and just, you know, the people pleasing and just, you know, the people pleasing and just, you know, said, "Hey, this could happen to both said, "Hey, this could happen to both said, "Hey, this could happen to both men or women and it's not victim men or women and it's not victim men or women and it's not victim blaming." You know, some of us end up in blaming." You know, some of us end up in blaming." You know, some of us end up in these patterns where we believe that these patterns where we believe that these patterns where we believe that we're only worthy when we're doing for we're only worthy when we're doing for we're only worthy when we're doing for others, that we are unlovable unless others, that we are unlovable unless others, that we are unlovable unless we're sacrificing. we're sacrificing. we're sacrificing. >> We're modern-day martyrs. And >> We're modern-day martyrs. And >> We're modern-day martyrs. And >> so people pleasing is almost a form of >> so people pleasing is almost a form of >> so people pleasing is almost a form of masochism is what you're talking about. masochism is what you're talking about. masochism is what you're talking about. That's interesting. That's interesting. That's interesting. >> PC version. >> PC version. >> PC version. >> Wow. Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> And many of us because we've tied our >> And many of us because we've tied our >> And many of us because we've tied our self-worth to what our role is, we don't self-worth to what our role is, we don't self-worth to what our role is, we don't know how to be. We've forgotten who we know how to be. We've forgotten who we know how to be. We've forgotten who we are. And over time, others will pick up are. And over time, others will pick up are. And over time, others will pick up on that. they'll see that oh we can on that. they'll see that oh we can on that. they'll see that oh we can treat this person like this and it's treat this person like this and it's treat this person like this and it's human nature if you're given I'm taking human nature if you're given I'm taking human nature if you're given I'm taking right it doesn't mean the person's a bad right it doesn't mean the person's a bad right it doesn't mean the person's a bad person some people are some people are person some people are some people are person some people are some people are actually you know abusive but most actually you know abusive but most actually you know abusive but most people you know if you're given freely people you know if you're given freely people you know if you're given freely and they don't have to return they'll and they don't have to return they'll and they don't have to return they'll take take take >> right >> right >> right >> and this happens at the job you know the >> and this happens at the job you know the >> and this happens at the job you know the people pleaser at work is you know people pleaser at work is you know people pleaser at work is you know overlooked for the promotion because why overlooked for the promotion because why overlooked for the promotion because why give her the promotion she's going to do give her the promotion she's going to do give her the promotion she's going to do it anyway you know it anyway you know it anyway you know >> they are overlooked in relationships you >> they are overlooked in relationships you >> they are overlooked in relationships you know why commit to you you're going to know why commit to you you're going to know why commit to you you're going to you're going to give me what I want you're going to give me what I want you're going to give me what I want anyway way they're overlooked even in anyway way they're overlooked even in anyway way they're overlooked even in families, you know, the the eldest families, you know, the the eldest families, you know, the the eldest daughter syndrome and all that. I think daughter syndrome and all that. I think daughter syndrome and all that. I think when we realize why we're giving without when we realize why we're giving without when we realize why we're giving without receiving and we realize that it's tied receiving and we realize that it's tied receiving and we realize that it's tied to our low internal core belief that we to our low internal core belief that we to our low internal core belief that we are not worthy unless we're providing are not worthy unless we're providing are not worthy unless we're providing something for others and we challenge something for others and we challenge something for others and we challenge that a bit and we say, "Well, what's the that a bit and we say, "Well, what's the that a bit and we say, "Well, what's the worst that can happen if I say no?" If worst that can happen if I say no?" If worst that can happen if I say no?" If you say no, if you believe that they're you say no, if you believe that they're you say no, if you believe that they're not going to love you, test it out. not going to love you, test it out. not going to love you, test it out. >> I do this with my clients all the time >> I do this with my clients all the time >> I do this with my clients all the time >> and they're like, "You know, Dr. Jay, >> and they're like, "You know, Dr. Jay, >> and they're like, "You know, Dr. Jay, they actually called me more. They they actually called me more. They they actually called me more. They actually, you know, respected me more. actually, you know, respected me more. actually, you know, respected me more. The opposite of my the thing that I The opposite of my the thing that I The opposite of my the thing that I feared the most. feared the most. feared the most. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Was what happened. >> Was what happened. >> Was what happened. >> That's that's that's a big lesson for me >> That's that's that's a big lesson for me >> That's that's that's a big lesson for me cuz I had that peopleleasing thing cuz I had that peopleleasing thing cuz I had that peopleleasing thing >> pretty severely. >> pretty severely. >> pretty severely. >> I did too. >> I did too. >> I did too. >> You know, I didn't actually think of >> You know, I didn't actually think of >> You know, I didn't actually think of myself as having low selfworth cuz, you myself as having low selfworth cuz, you myself as having low selfworth cuz, you know, I, you know, have a good life. know, I, you know, have a good life. know, I, you know, have a good life. I've been successful. I, you know, I I've been successful. I, you know, I I've been successful. I, you know, I just I didn't I didn't actually identify just I didn't I didn't actually identify just I didn't I didn't actually identify with that. But when I when I did I gain with that. But when I when I did I gain with that. But when I when I did I gain and I kind of went back into my and I kind of went back into my and I kind of went back into my childhood and I saw what happened to me childhood and I saw what happened to me childhood and I saw what happened to me and I saw the things that kind of led me and I saw the things that kind of led me and I saw the things that kind of led me to believe you know that I needed to to believe you know that I needed to to believe you know that I needed to perform for love. I realized that was perform for love. I realized that was perform for love. I realized that was coming from a lack of selfworth and I coming from a lack of selfworth and I coming from a lack of selfworth and I did not even realize that and it was did not even realize that and it was did not even realize that and it was like it was a big kind of shock to my like it was a big kind of shock to my like it was a big kind of shock to my nervous system. But once I realized nervous system. But once I realized nervous system. But once I realized that, I was able to kind of really shift that, I was able to kind of really shift that, I was able to kind of really shift how I'm showing up and to actually take how I'm showing up and to actually take how I'm showing up and to actually take care of myself more and not be in this care of myself more and not be in this care of myself more and not be in this constant state of self-sacrifice. And constant state of self-sacrifice. And constant state of self-sacrifice. And >> I didn't think of it, but it actually is >> I didn't think of it, but it actually is >> I didn't think of it, but it actually is a form of masochism, right? a form of masochism, right? a form of masochism, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> A lot of us who have this, and I'm sure >> A lot of us who have this, and I'm sure >> A lot of us who have this, and I'm sure a lot of people listening have this cuz a lot of people listening have this cuz a lot of people listening have this cuz it's pretty common. Our our brains it's pretty common. Our our brains it's pretty common. Our our brains aren't working the same. Like there's aren't working the same. Like there's aren't working the same. Like there's some kind of neurological shift that some kind of neurological shift that some kind of neurological shift that makes it difficult for us to sort of makes it difficult for us to sort of makes it difficult for us to sort of feel joy that we're in this kind of feel joy that we're in this kind of feel joy that we're in this kind of revved up anxious state. Can you talk revved up anxious state. Can you talk revved up anxious state. Can you talk about that kind of neurologic phenomena about that kind of neurologic phenomena about that kind of neurologic phenomena that's going on and why it's so hard to that's going on and why it's so hard to that's going on and why it's so hard to kind of shift out of that? kind of shift out of that? kind of shift out of that? >> It's so I think fascinating because and >> It's so I think fascinating because and >> It's so I think fascinating because and that's why I say you can't just have a that's why I say you can't just have a that's why I say you can't just have a imaging and then say okay you have this imaging and then say okay you have this imaging and then say okay you have this because we're all so different with my because we're all so different with my because we're all so different with my clients. I ask them to say you know look clients. I ask them to say you know look clients. I ask them to say you know look at your hand and imagine that you know at your hand and imagine that you know at your hand and imagine that you know the joy is built in there. You just have the joy is built in there. You just have the joy is built in there. You just have to find it but also look at your hand to find it but also look at your hand to find it but also look at your hand and remember your fingerprint is and remember your fingerprint is and remember your fingerprint is different than someone else's. So, why different than someone else's. So, why different than someone else's. So, why are you trying what works for someone are you trying what works for someone are you trying what works for someone else else else >> on yourself without really understanding >> on yourself without really understanding >> on yourself without really understanding the science of your happiness? the science of your happiness? the science of your happiness? >> And there's a tool in medicine that >> And there's a tool in medicine that >> And there's a tool in medicine that we've been using forever, but we don't we've been using forever, but we don't we've been using forever, but we don't teach our patients about it. teach our patients about it. teach our patients about it. >> And I think, frankly, a lot of us just >> And I think, frankly, a lot of us just >> And I think, frankly, a lot of us just kind of like forget it. We're like, oh, kind of like forget it. We're like, oh, kind of like forget it. We're like, oh, we learned it in med school, that's it. we learned it in med school, that's it. we learned it in med school, that's it. >> But it's the biocschosocial, and it's >> But it's the biocschosocial, and it's >> But it's the biocschosocial, and it's super simple. And I imagine it to be super simple. And I imagine it to be super simple. And I imagine it to be like a fingerprint. No two like a fingerprint. No two like a fingerprint. No two biocschosocials are alike. Even twins biocschosocials are alike. Even twins biocschosocials are alike. Even twins don't have identical biocschosocials. don't have identical biocschosocials. don't have identical biocschosocials. >> So when you look at the biological >> So when you look at the biological >> So when you look at the biological component component component >> of depression for some people, for those >> of depression for some people, for those >> of depression for some people, for those of us in midlife who are women, there's of us in midlife who are women, there's of us in midlife who are women, there's a huge hormonal component to our a huge hormonal component to our a huge hormonal component to our depression. And this happens because in depression. And this happens because in depression. And this happens because in midlife some for some people late 30s midlife some for some people late 30s midlife some for some people late 30s early 40s in pmenopause you start to early 40s in pmenopause you start to early 40s in pmenopause you start to experience fluctuations in your hormones experience fluctuations in your hormones experience fluctuations in your hormones and that can impact the way that your and that can impact the way that your and that can impact the way that your brain processes melatonin for sleep, brain processes melatonin for sleep, brain processes melatonin for sleep, serotonin, GABA for anxiety. You know, serotonin, GABA for anxiety. You know, serotonin, GABA for anxiety. You know, all of these neurotransmitters are being all of these neurotransmitters are being all of these neurotransmitters are being modulated by these very unpredictable modulated by these very unpredictable modulated by these very unpredictable shifts in hormones. And so a a shifts in hormones. And so a a shifts in hormones. And so a a depression for a woman may be very depression for a woman may be very depression for a woman may be very different than a depression for a man different than a depression for a man different than a depression for a man who let's say perhaps may be struggling who let's say perhaps may be struggling who let's say perhaps may be struggling with uh something like an autoimmune with uh something like an autoimmune with uh something like an autoimmune condition, right? Or that typically condition, right? Or that typically condition, right? Or that typically happens in women. But high inflammatory happens in women. But high inflammatory happens in women. But high inflammatory states if you're not taking care of your states if you're not taking care of your states if you're not taking care of your health, right? If you have like a lot of health, right? If you have like a lot of health, right? If you have like a lot of belly fat and so forth. belly fat and so forth. belly fat and so forth. >> So even the biological components of >> So even the biological components of >> So even the biological components of depression are different across depression are different across depression are different across individuals. individuals. individuals. looking at, you know, the other part, looking at, you know, the other part, looking at, you know, the other part, the psychological component of the psychological component of the psychological component of depression, the the second part of the depression, the the second part of the depression, the the second part of the biocschosocial, women tend to go through biocschosocial, women tend to go through biocschosocial, women tend to go through a lot more traumas, sexual traumas, a lot more traumas, sexual traumas, a lot more traumas, sexual traumas, right? right? right? >> Um, and you know, there's attachment >> Um, and you know, there's attachment >> Um, and you know, there's attachment theory where depending on how you're theory where depending on how you're theory where depending on how you're raised or you were cared for or raised or you were cared for or raised or you were cared for or neglected, you may have an anxious neglected, you may have an anxious neglected, you may have an anxious attachment or an avoidant attachment and attachment or an avoidant attachment and attachment or an avoidant attachment and that's playing out in your that's playing out in your that's playing out in your relationships. you know, in the relationships. you know, in the relationships. you know, in the psychology part, some of us have psychology part, some of us have psychology part, some of us have histories of ADHD and neurode divergence histories of ADHD and neurode divergence histories of ADHD and neurode divergence and that plays a role in our masking all and that plays a role in our masking all and that plays a role in our masking all day long. So, you know, even that day long. So, you know, even that day long. So, you know, even that psychological component is different for psychological component is different for psychological component is different for individuals. individuals. individuals. >> And then for um you know, the social >> And then for um you know, the social >> And then for um you know, the social part, we're all in different parts of part, we're all in different parts of part, we're all in different parts of the world. So, socially, some of us the world. So, socially, some of us the world. So, socially, some of us don't have access to nature, others have don't have access to nature, others have don't have access to nature, others have better access to nutritious foods and better access to nutritious foods and better access to nutritious foods and organic foods. Some of us only have organic foods. Some of us only have organic foods. Some of us only have processed, you know, processed, you know, processed, you know, >> uh, depending on our environment, some >> uh, depending on our environment, some >> uh, depending on our environment, some of us drink a lot or smoke a lot or use of us drink a lot or smoke a lot or use of us drink a lot or smoke a lot or use substances substances substances >> or our relationships. So, when you look >> or our relationships. So, when you look >> or our relationships. So, when you look at that biocycle and encourage my at that biocycle and encourage my at that biocycle and encourage my patients to draw them out because they patients to draw them out because they patients to draw them out because they do shift over time do shift over time do shift over time >> and then figure out where is it that >> and then figure out where is it that >> and then figure out where is it that you're losing more of your joy, you're losing more of your joy, you're losing more of your joy, >> you know, rather than trying something >> you know, rather than trying something >> you know, rather than trying something that works for someone else, that works for someone else, that works for someone else, >> think about yourself as this individual >> think about yourself as this individual >> think about yourself as this individual that it's so rare because there's only that it's so rare because there's only that it's so rare because there's only one you, right? There will only ever be one you, right? There will only ever be one you, right? There will only ever be one you. Yeah. one you. Yeah. one you. Yeah. >> And the chances of you existing are so >> And the chances of you existing are so >> And the chances of you existing are so small. So you are here for a reason. So small. So you are here for a reason. So small. So you are here for a reason. So just look at that and figure out where just look at that and figure out where just look at that and figure out where are you losing your joy. Yes, there are are you losing your joy. Yes, there are are you losing your joy. Yes, there are classic models of depression. Yes, classic models of depression. Yes, classic models of depression. Yes, there's dopamine, norepinephrine, there's dopamine, norepinephrine, there's dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, but we're learning that it's serotonin, but we're learning that it's serotonin, but we're learning that it's not Yeah. It's not that simple. And that not Yeah. It's not that simple. And that not Yeah. It's not that simple. And that there are different avenues for joy. And there are different avenues for joy. And there are different avenues for joy. And that's why that's why that's why >> not like a quote chemical imbalance or >> not like a quote chemical imbalance or >> not like a quote chemical imbalance or something. something. something. >> No. Yeah. And that's why the nutritional >> No. Yeah. And that's why the nutritional >> No. Yeah. And that's why the nutritional aspect is so important and and it's aspect is so important and and it's aspect is so important and and it's being taught now in residencies and being taught now in residencies and being taught now in residencies and training because we're learning that we training because we're learning that we training because we're learning that we we can't just focus on one thing. We we can't just focus on one thing. We we can't just focus on one thing. We have to look at what people are eating, have to look at what people are eating, have to look at what people are eating, their inflammatory states. There's high their inflammatory states. There's high their inflammatory states. There's high inflammation with with mental health. inflammation with with mental health. inflammation with with mental health. >> This episode is brought to you by Row >> This episode is brought to you by Row >> This episode is brought to you by Row Nutrition. Now, every day from the Nutrition. Now, every day from the Nutrition. Now, every day from the moment you wake up, your body is dealing moment you wake up, your body is dealing moment you wake up, your body is dealing with thousands of toxins you can't see with thousands of toxins you can't see with thousands of toxins you can't see through the air, water, food, even the through the air, water, food, even the through the air, water, food, even the products you use. 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I'm going to double click on that I'm going to double click on that I'm going to double click on that because most of psychiatry has not been because most of psychiatry has not been because most of psychiatry has not been around what's happening biologically. around what's happening biologically. around what's happening biologically. It's just psychological and you're now It's just psychological and you're now It's just psychological and you're now talking about this idea of inflammation talking about this idea of inflammation talking about this idea of inflammation which is so prevalent in our society which is so prevalent in our society which is so prevalent in our society because of the food we eat, the stress because of the food we eat, the stress because of the food we eat, the stress we have, the lack of exercise, the we have, the lack of exercise, the we have, the lack of exercise, the environmental toxins, changes in our gut environmental toxins, changes in our gut environmental toxins, changes in our gut microbiome, nutritional deficiencies microbiome, nutritional deficiencies microbiome, nutritional deficiencies which are so common. All these things which are so common. All these things which are so common. All these things drive inflammation in the body. drive inflammation in the body. drive inflammation in the body. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, when the science is looking at >> You know, when the science is looking at >> You know, when the science is looking at the brain of someone who's having the brain of someone who's having the brain of someone who's having psychiatric symptoms, it's often an psychiatric symptoms, it's often an psychiatric symptoms, it's often an inflamed brain. You know, like I always inflamed brain. You know, like I always inflamed brain. You know, like I always say, you know, your your your brain say, you know, your your your brain say, you know, your your your brain can't really experience pain. Like if can't really experience pain. Like if can't really experience pain. Like if you have a swollen knee from you have a swollen knee from you have a swollen knee from inflammation, it hurts. But when your inflammation, it hurts. But when your inflammation, it hurts. But when your brain is quote hurting from brain is quote hurting from brain is quote hurting from inflammation, it manifests as mental inflammation, it manifests as mental inflammation, it manifests as mental illness. illness. illness. >> It does. >> It does. >> It does. >> Or psychiatric symptoms. Right. And also >> Or psychiatric symptoms. Right. And also >> Or psychiatric symptoms. Right. And also like a lot of the medications for like a lot of the medications for like a lot of the medications for psychiatric conditions cause several psychiatric conditions cause several psychiatric conditions cause several severe metabolic side effects. And I severe metabolic side effects. And I severe metabolic side effects. And I think for a lot of time we're thinking think for a lot of time we're thinking think for a lot of time we're thinking well that's just something people have well that's just something people have well that's just something people have to deal with and we just have to treat to deal with and we just have to treat to deal with and we just have to treat it. We'll add on a metformin. We'll add it. We'll add on a metformin. We'll add it. We'll add on a metformin. We'll add on a Tobamax and but then scientists on a Tobamax and but then scientists on a Tobamax and but then scientists started looking and saying well what if started looking and saying well what if started looking and saying well what if that they're linked? What if things in that they're linked? What if things in that they're linked? What if things in the body are actually causing some of the body are actually causing some of the body are actually causing some of these symptoms in the brain? these symptoms in the brain? these symptoms in the brain? >> So amazing. And now, yeah, so we're in >> So amazing. And now, yeah, so we're in >> So amazing. And now, yeah, so we're in this really, I think, very cool area of this really, I think, very cool area of this really, I think, very cool area of psychiatry where we're, you know, it psychiatry where we're, you know, it psychiatry where we're, you know, it used to be like, okay, that's the used to be like, okay, that's the used to be like, okay, that's the surgeon, that's a psychiatrist, like surgeon, that's a psychiatrist, like surgeon, that's a psychiatrist, like they're never going to talk to each they're never going to talk to each they're never going to talk to each other. And now people are coming other. And now people are coming other. And now people are coming together and saying, we have to work on together and saying, we have to work on together and saying, we have to work on this together. This is true holistic this together. This is true holistic this together. This is true holistic medicine. medicine. medicine. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's the biocschosocial, but we've >> And it's the biocschosocial, but we've >> And it's the biocschosocial, but we've ignored it for so long. ignored it for so long. ignored it for so long. >> It is I mean, it is I mean, there's a >> It is I mean, it is I mean, there's a >> It is I mean, it is I mean, there's a lot of psychology and trauma and things lot of psychology and trauma and things lot of psychology and trauma and things that are real psychological impacts that that are real psychological impacts that that are real psychological impacts that affect you. But then there's this whole affect you. But then there's this whole affect you. But then there's this whole world of sort of nutritional metabolic world of sort of nutritional metabolic world of sort of nutritional metabolic psychiatry and psychedelic psychiatry psychiatry and psychedelic psychiatry psychiatry and psychedelic psychiatry which is emerging as new tools to which is emerging as new tools to which is emerging as new tools to actually work with these psychiatric actually work with these psychiatric actually work with these psychiatric problems and the high functioning problems and the high functioning problems and the high functioning depression concept I think doesn't depression concept I think doesn't depression concept I think doesn't necessarily require those things because necessarily require those things because necessarily require those things because often it comes from childhood stuff but often it comes from childhood stuff but often it comes from childhood stuff but I think it's important for people to I think it's important for people to I think it's important for people to recognize that if they're having recognize that if they're having recognize that if they're having psychiatric symptoms it's not all in psychiatric symptoms it's not all in psychiatric symptoms it's not all in their head right their head right their head right >> and and that's that's the problem with >> and and that's that's the problem with >> and and that's that's the problem with with psychiatry is it's sort of like with psychiatry is it's sort of like with psychiatry is it's sort of like you've got this you know kind of uh kind you've got this you know kind of uh kind you've got this you know kind of uh kind of border between your neck and your and of border between your neck and your and of border between your neck and your and your head and your body and it's like your head and your body and it's like your head and your body and it's like they're not communicating but they are they're not communicating but they are they're not communicating but they are constantly constantly constantly >> they are they're so connected. So, I >> they are they're so connected. So, I >> they are they're so connected. So, I want to sort of shift a little bit and want to sort of shift a little bit and want to sort of shift a little bit and talk about um what you call digital talk about um what you call digital talk about um what you call digital depression. I mean, we talk about kids depression. I mean, we talk about kids depression. I mean, we talk about kids and their phones and distraction and ADD and their phones and distraction and ADD and their phones and distraction and ADD and but you talk about this also for and but you talk about this also for and but you talk about this also for adults and how it's kind of robbing us adults and how it's kind of robbing us adults and how it's kind of robbing us of joy and it's it's sort of constantly of joy and it's it's sort of constantly of joy and it's it's sort of constantly like creating a state for us of like creating a state for us of like creating a state for us of comparison and and and affecting our comparison and and and affecting our comparison and and and affecting our mood, affecting our our sense of mood, affecting our our sense of mood, affecting our our sense of well-being and and maybe even you know well-being and and maybe even you know well-being and and maybe even you know causing some depression. So, can you causing some depression. So, can you causing some depression. So, can you talk about like that phenomena not just talk about like that phenomena not just talk about like that phenomena not just for kids but for for adults? Yeah, most for kids but for for adults? Yeah, most for kids but for for adults? Yeah, most of us are familiar with the literature of us are familiar with the literature of us are familiar with the literature on children because that great book came on children because that great book came on children because that great book came out, The Anxious Generation, Jonathan out, The Anxious Generation, Jonathan out, The Anxious Generation, Jonathan Hate. Yeah. Hate. Yeah. Hate. Yeah. >> And um >> And um >> And um >> he's been on the podcast. We've been >> he's been on the podcast. We've been >> he's been on the podcast. We've been >> I think we're we're well aware of what's >> I think we're we're well aware of what's >> I think we're we're well aware of what's happening with kids, but it was a bit happening with kids, but it was a bit happening with kids, but it was a bit too late. You know, we didn't know what too late. You know, we didn't know what too late. You know, we didn't know what was happening back when children were on was happening back when children were on was happening back when children were on devices we know now. But yeah, that devices we know now. But yeah, that devices we know now. But yeah, that there is literature and very recent there is literature and very recent there is literature and very recent literature on what happens to adults. literature on what happens to adults. literature on what happens to adults. There's actually this entire uh center There's actually this entire uh center There's actually this entire uh center at Stanford called the Stanford Zoom at Stanford called the Stanford Zoom at Stanford called the Stanford Zoom Fatigue Center where they study what Fatigue Center where they study what Fatigue Center where they study what happens. happens. happens. >> I think I have that Zoom fatigue. I'm >> I think I have that Zoom fatigue. I'm >> I think I have that Zoom fatigue. I'm like the Zoom call. like the Zoom call. like the Zoom call. >> I mean they literally study what happens >> I mean they literally study what happens >> I mean they literally study what happens when you're on your screen all day in when you're on your screen all day in when you're on your screen all day in meetings back toback. And what they meetings back toback. And what they meetings back toback. And what they found is that you know we're supposed to found is that you know we're supposed to found is that you know we're supposed to when I look at you I don't see my face when I look at you I don't see my face when I look at you I don't see my face next to you. next to you. next to you. >> Imagine if I were talking with you and >> Imagine if I were talking with you and >> Imagine if I were talking with you and then I saw my face. I'd be looking at my then I saw my face. I'd be looking at my then I saw my face. I'd be looking at my face. face. face. >> There's actually a feature on Zoom where >> There's actually a feature on Zoom where >> There's actually a feature on Zoom where you can hide your face. I encourage you can hide your face. I encourage you can hide your face. I encourage people to do that. get yourself off the people to do that. get yourself off the people to do that. get yourself off the screen, screen, screen, >> but also, you know, and that that causes >> but also, you know, and that that causes >> but also, you know, and that that causes you to scrutinize yourself. And so when you to scrutinize yourself. And so when you to scrutinize yourself. And so when we're on FaceTime, even when we're we're on FaceTime, even when we're we're on FaceTime, even when we're talking to our loved ones, we're seeing talking to our loved ones, we're seeing talking to our loved ones, we're seeing our face. our face. our face. >> Many of us are not just physicians, >> Many of us are not just physicians, >> Many of us are not just physicians, we're physician content creators. We're we're physician content creators. We're we're physician content creators. We're we're constantly looking at our faces. we're constantly looking at our faces. we're constantly looking at our faces. It's just not natural, It's just not natural, It's just not natural, >> right? There are no there are no natures >> right? There are no there are no natures >> right? There are no there are no natures in mirror. Maybe like a pond or in mirror. Maybe like a pond or in mirror. Maybe like a pond or something. I'm not something. I'm not something. I'm not >> the narcissist, the the Greek um I think >> the narcissist, the the Greek um I think >> the narcissist, the the Greek um I think it's Greek, but it's Greek, but it's Greek, but >> um yeah, looking at a mirror is one >> um yeah, looking at a mirror is one >> um yeah, looking at a mirror is one thing. And even I'm glad you brought thing. And even I'm glad you brought thing. And even I'm glad you brought that up because sometimes I walk into a that up because sometimes I walk into a that up because sometimes I walk into a room and I and I see myself in the room and I and I see myself in the room and I and I see myself in the mirror and I jump. I'm like, "Oh, I mirror and I jump. I'm like, "Oh, I mirror and I jump. I'm like, "Oh, I thought it was it's weird. It's weird thought it was it's weird. It's weird thought it was it's weird. It's weird for us to see ourselves outside of for us to see ourselves outside of for us to see ourselves outside of ourselves." And there's a term in ourselves." And there's a term in ourselves." And there's a term in >> psychiatry called the autoscopic >> psychiatry called the autoscopic >> psychiatry called the autoscopic phenomenon where when people who have phenomenon where when people who have phenomenon where when people who have true psychosis like schizophrenia or true psychosis like schizophrenia or true psychosis like schizophrenia or bipolar with schizophrenia with bipolar with schizophrenia with bipolar with schizophrenia with psychosis, they hallucinate and they see psychosis, they hallucinate and they see psychosis, they hallucinate and they see themselves outside of their body and themselves outside of their body and themselves outside of their body and they become very depressed, very they become very depressed, very they become very depressed, very anxious. anxious. anxious. >> We're doing that to ourselves. >> We're doing that to ourselves. >> We're doing that to ourselves. >> Wow. So, we really have to be mindful of >> Wow. So, we really have to be mindful of >> Wow. So, we really have to be mindful of what we're doing to our brains and what we're doing to our brains and what we're doing to our brains and protect our brains. Also, we're not protect our brains. Also, we're not protect our brains. Also, we're not really built to look at 10 people at really built to look at 10 people at really built to look at 10 people at once. You know, whenever whenever I go once. You know, whenever whenever I go once. You know, whenever whenever I go on a virtual meeting, I'm like tense and on a virtual meeting, I'm like tense and on a virtual meeting, I'm like tense and I I really look at my body. I'm like, if I I really look at my body. I'm like, if I I really look at my body. I'm like, if these people were around a table, I these people were around a table, I these people were around a table, I would not be that way. would not be that way. would not be that way. >> But you're looking at like 10, five, 10 >> But you're looking at like 10, five, 10 >> But you're looking at like 10, five, 10 people at the same time also not people at the same time also not people at the same time also not natural. So be very mindful of getting natural. So be very mindful of getting natural. So be very mindful of getting off screen, you know, not showing off screen, you know, not showing off screen, you know, not showing yourself all the time, making it a yourself all the time, making it a yourself all the time, making it a priority in your workplace to do, you priority in your workplace to do, you priority in your workplace to do, you know, walking meetings where we're just know, walking meetings where we're just know, walking meetings where we're just on audio Zooms, you know, getting on audio Zooms, you know, getting on audio Zooms, you know, getting movement because we're losing so much of movement because we're losing so much of movement because we're losing so much of that natural movement. We're losing all that natural movement. We're losing all that natural movement. We're losing all these points because we're planted in these points because we're planted in these points because we're planted in front of a screen versus if we were front of a screen versus if we were front of a screen versus if we were around a table, we'd be moving this way. around a table, we'd be moving this way. around a table, we'd be moving this way. All these little shifts matter. Yeah. All these little shifts matter. Yeah. All these little shifts matter. Yeah. >> So that's one thing. thing. And then >> So that's one thing. thing. And then >> So that's one thing. thing. And then there was a recent study out of one of there was a recent study out of one of there was a recent study out of one of the schools not far from here actually the schools not far from here actually the schools not far from here actually in Texas where they took the smartphone in Texas where they took the smartphone in Texas where they took the smartphone capacity away from adults for 4 weeks. capacity away from adults for 4 weeks. capacity away from adults for 4 weeks. >> And so you still had your flip phone, >> And so you still had your flip phone, >> And so you still had your flip phone, you know, a version of a flip phone. You you know, a version of a flip phone. You you know, a version of a flip phone. You could text and call, but you couldn't could text and call, but you couldn't could text and call, but you couldn't get online, you couldn't be on social get online, you couldn't be on social get online, you couldn't be on social media. media. media. >> And what they found is that after 4 >> And what they found is that after 4 >> And what they found is that after 4 weeks of being away from a smartphone, weeks of being away from a smartphone, weeks of being away from a smartphone, >> the happiness scores went up as if they >> the happiness scores went up as if they >> the happiness scores went up as if they had treated these folks with an had treated these folks with an had treated these folks with an anti-depressant. So anti-depressant. So anti-depressant. So >> they thought, well, what's happening >> they thought, well, what's happening >> they thought, well, what's happening here? And when they looked at these here? And when they looked at these here? And when they looked at these individuals and spoke with them, they individuals and spoke with them, they individuals and spoke with them, they found that these people were getting found that these people were getting found that these people were getting better sleep because they weren't on better sleep because they weren't on better sleep because they weren't on their screens at night. So that's a their screens at night. So that's a their screens at night. So that's a point of joy that we measure in the point of joy that we measure in the point of joy that we measure in the research. They were actually socializing research. They were actually socializing research. They were actually socializing more. Another point of joy. They were more. Another point of joy. They were more. Another point of joy. They were spending time in nature. Another point spending time in nature. Another point spending time in nature. Another point of joy, you know, eating their food and of joy, you know, eating their food and of joy, you know, eating their food and tasting it, not like just staring at a tasting it, not like just staring at a tasting it, not like just staring at a screen and just shoveling shoving it in screen and just shoveling shoving it in screen and just shoveling shoving it in their in their mouths. So they were their in their mouths. So they were their in their mouths. So they were losing all of these natural points of losing all of these natural points of losing all of these natural points of joy just by being on their screen. joy just by being on their screen. joy just by being on their screen. >> I think that's so true. And I think I >> I think that's so true. And I think I >> I think that's so true. And I think I remember I remember you know different remember I remember you know different remember I remember you know different moments in my life where I've been off moments in my life where I've been off moments in my life where I've been off like I was you know I remember being in like I was you know I remember being in like I was you know I remember being in Mongolia um you know riding horseback Mongolia um you know riding horseback Mongolia um you know riding horseback for like 10 days and there was like no for like 10 days and there was like no for like 10 days and there was like no cell service. It was no phone. And I cell service. It was no phone. And I cell service. It was no phone. And I just put my phone in my bag and it just just put my phone in my bag and it just just put my phone in my bag and it just it was just life felt different. And I I it was just life felt different. And I I it was just life felt different. And I I I mean I'm old enough to know when there I mean I'm old enough to know when there I mean I'm old enough to know when there was no phones and how different the was no phones and how different the was no phones and how different the quality of my days were and my quality of my days were and my quality of my days were and my experience was and how much more present experience was and how much more present experience was and how much more present I was and how much more experienced the I was and how much more experienced the I was and how much more experienced the sort of subtle textures of life and the sort of subtle textures of life and the sort of subtle textures of life and the subtle joys and the subtle things that subtle joys and the subtle things that subtle joys and the subtle things that you kind of don't notice when you're you kind of don't notice when you're you kind of don't notice when you're constantly like this all the time. Any constantly like this all the time. Any constantly like this all the time. Any spare moment you pop up your phone, spare moment you pop up your phone, spare moment you pop up your phone, you're looking at your messages, you're you're looking at your messages, you're you're looking at your messages, you're looking at, you know, your Instagram, looking at, you know, your Instagram, looking at, you know, your Instagram, whatever the hell you're doing. And it whatever the hell you're doing. And it whatever the hell you're doing. And it is kind of toxic. Um, and and I think is kind of toxic. Um, and and I think is kind of toxic. Um, and and I think what you're saying is that our addiction what you're saying is that our addiction what you're saying is that our addiction to our devices is actually causing a to our devices is actually causing a to our devices is actually causing a mental health crisis not only for kids mental health crisis not only for kids mental health crisis not only for kids but for grown-ups. but for grown-ups. but for grown-ups. >> Yeah, it is. I think we went through >> Yeah, it is. I think we went through >> Yeah, it is. I think we went through this collective trauma in 2020 of not this collective trauma in 2020 of not this collective trauma in 2020 of not knowing the uncertainty of the pandemic. knowing the uncertainty of the pandemic. knowing the uncertainty of the pandemic. I think rewired our brains to wanting to I think rewired our brains to wanting to I think rewired our brains to wanting to know too much. know too much. know too much. >> Like that trauma of not knowing what was >> Like that trauma of not knowing what was >> Like that trauma of not knowing what was going to happen and then being going to happen and then being going to happen and then being connected. the only way to be connected connected. the only way to be connected connected. the only way to be connected was through a device has made us believe was through a device has made us believe was through a device has made us believe that well as long as we know things that well as long as we know things that well as long as we know things we'll be safe. It's creating so much we'll be safe. It's creating so much we'll be safe. It's creating so much havoc for us in terms of our anxiety. havoc for us in terms of our anxiety. havoc for us in terms of our anxiety. And with some of my clients I say let's And with some of my clients I say let's And with some of my clients I say let's do an experiment because you're so do an experiment because you're so do an experiment because you're so important. Let's see what happens when important. Let's see what happens when important. Let's see what happens when you don't have your phone at this party. you don't have your phone at this party. you don't have your phone at this party. You know, leave it home. And no one has You know, leave it home. And no one has You know, leave it home. And no one has said, "Oh my gosh, I missed something." said, "Oh my gosh, I missed something." said, "Oh my gosh, I missed something." They're like, "You were so right. They're like, "You were so right. They're like, "You were so right. >> I did not need that." Because think >> I did not need that." Because think >> I did not need that." Because think about it, 30, 40 years ago, that's what about it, 30, 40 years ago, that's what about it, 30, 40 years ago, that's what we did. we did. we did. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We did not have access to our emails. We >> We did not have access to our emails. We >> We did not have access to our emails. We did not have access to our boss, our did not have access to our boss, our did not have access to our boss, our kids all the time. We had a life. kids all the time. We had a life. kids all the time. We had a life. >> Yeah. There's a great restaurant in New >> Yeah. There's a great restaurant in New >> Yeah. There's a great restaurant in New York I like to go to where they have York I like to go to where they have York I like to go to where they have like a box in front of in the center of like a box in front of in the center of like a box in front of in the center of the table says, "Put your phones in the table says, "Put your phones in the table says, "Put your phones in here." And everybody puts their phone in here." And everybody puts their phone in here." And everybody puts their phone in and it's great. You have a great dinner and it's great. You have a great dinner and it's great. You have a great dinner conversation cuz nobody's distracted. conversation cuz nobody's distracted. conversation cuz nobody's distracted. Nobody's, you know, just checking their Nobody's, you know, just checking their Nobody's, you know, just checking their me messages. It's pretty good. So, what me messages. It's pretty good. So, what me messages. It's pretty good. So, what what does a healthy like relationship what does a healthy like relationship what does a healthy like relationship with technology look like? Cuz these with technology look like? Cuz these with technology look like? Cuz these things aren't going away. Like we're things aren't going away. Like we're things aren't going away. Like we're going to we're going to have our phones. going to we're going to have our phones. going to we're going to have our phones. if we're not giving them up. So, what if we're not giving them up. So, what if we're not giving them up. So, what what is the the right relationship that what is the the right relationship that what is the the right relationship that can actually help manage some of these can actually help manage some of these can actually help manage some of these sort of psychiatric impacts of our sort of psychiatric impacts of our sort of psychiatric impacts of our technology? technology? technology? >> Well, I I developed something called the >> Well, I I developed something called the >> Well, I I developed something called the reset method. And initially, it was to reset method. And initially, it was to reset method. And initially, it was to help these children and these parents help these children and these parents help these children and these parents who were both on the phones and the who were both on the phones and the who were both on the phones and the devices together, right? I'd have these devices together, right? I'd have these devices together, right? I'd have these parents coming in. They're like, "My parents coming in. They're like, "My parents coming in. They're like, "My kid, every time they take the device kid, every time they take the device kid, every time they take the device away, there's a meltdown. We have these away, there's a meltdown. We have these away, there's a meltdown. We have these huge fights. All of our fights are huge fights. All of our fights are huge fights. All of our fights are centered around technology. And then I centered around technology. And then I centered around technology. And then I would talk to with with parents and be would talk to with with parents and be would talk to with with parents and be like, "Okay, like tell me about your like, "Okay, like tell me about your like, "Okay, like tell me about your technology patterns." And they were technology patterns." And they were technology patterns." And they were like, "This is not about me. This is like, "This is not about me. This is like, "This is not about me. This is about my kid." about my kid." about my kid." >> But then when we when we sat down and we >> But then when we when we sat down and we >> But then when we when we sat down and we looked at things, they were on their looked at things, they were on their looked at things, they were on their screens just as much as their kids were. screens just as much as their kids were. screens just as much as their kids were. So it's one thing to tell your kids to So it's one thing to tell your kids to So it's one thing to tell your kids to do something, but if you're doing it, do something, but if you're doing it, do something, but if you're doing it, they're not going to listen to you, they're not going to listen to you, they're not going to listen to you, right? right? right? >> Um, so the reset method, the R, is >> Um, so the reset method, the R, is >> Um, so the reset method, the R, is realize how screens are impacting you. realize how screens are impacting you. realize how screens are impacting you. So, are screens helping you to stay So, are screens helping you to stay So, are screens helping you to stay connected? You know, I want you to make connected? You know, I want you to make connected? You know, I want you to make a list of pros and cons. Is it making a list of pros and cons. Is it making a list of pros and cons. Is it making you more distracted? you more distracted? you more distracted? >> Is it causing you to get worse sleep? Is >> Is it causing you to get worse sleep? Is >> Is it causing you to get worse sleep? Is it creating a lot of fights in your it creating a lot of fights in your it creating a lot of fights in your family? You know, how is it impacting family? You know, how is it impacting family? You know, how is it impacting you? The good and the bad. That's the you? The good and the bad. That's the you? The good and the bad. That's the realization. realization. realization. >> The E is the education part. You know, >> The E is the education part. You know, >> The E is the education part. You know, educate yourself about the recent data. educate yourself about the recent data. educate yourself about the recent data. There's so much on kids, but you know, There's so much on kids, but you know, There's so much on kids, but you know, there's emerging data on adults like I there's emerging data on adults like I there's emerging data on adults like I just we just talked about, right? Um how just we just talked about, right? Um how just we just talked about, right? Um how is it impacting you from the science? is it impacting you from the science? is it impacting you from the science? And then the S is your strategy. What's And then the S is your strategy. What's And then the S is your strategy. What's your plan? As a family, are you going to your plan? As a family, are you going to your plan? As a family, are you going to say everyone off of devices during say everyone off of devices during say everyone off of devices during dinner? As a family, are you going to dinner? As a family, are you going to dinner? As a family, are you going to say, you know, after 9, no devices? say, you know, after 9, no devices? say, you know, after 9, no devices? As an individual, are you going to say, As an individual, are you going to say, As an individual, are you going to say, I'm only going to follow these account I'm only going to follow these account I'm only going to follow these account and unfollow those? I'm only going to and unfollow those? I'm only going to and unfollow those? I'm only going to use this, you know, at one hour a day. use this, you know, at one hour a day. use this, you know, at one hour a day. Have a clear strategy, you know. And Have a clear strategy, you know. And Have a clear strategy, you know. And then for kids in the household, know the then for kids in the household, know the then for kids in the household, know the ages that are recommended. You know, ages that are recommended. You know, ages that are recommended. You know, like the American Academy of of like the American Academy of of like the American Academy of of Pediatrics, they often put out Pediatrics, they often put out Pediatrics, they often put out recommendations, you know, under 18, no recommendations, you know, under 18, no recommendations, you know, under 18, no screen time, and and so 18 months, no screen time, and and so 18 months, no screen time, and and so 18 months, no screen time. You know, there's an screen time. You know, there's an screen time. You know, there's an organization called Wait until 8th to organization called Wait until 8th to organization called Wait until 8th to not give devices to kids. not give devices to kids. not give devices to kids. >> 18 months. I mean, wow. >> 18 months. I mean, wow. >> 18 months. I mean, wow. >> Hey, I see it all the time. Toddlers on >> Hey, I see it all the time. Toddlers on >> Hey, I see it all the time. Toddlers on the screens and they know how to swipe, the screens and they know how to swipe, the screens and they know how to swipe, you know. So, really know what the you know. So, really know what the you know. So, really know what the recommendations are and follow those. recommendations are and follow those. recommendations are and follow those. >> Before they can talk, they can swipe. >> Before they can talk, they can swipe. >> Before they can talk, they can swipe. >> Holy cow. >> Holy cow. >> Holy cow. >> It's really >> It's really >> It's really >> That's terrifying. >> That's terrifying. >> That's terrifying. >> Yeah. I'm I'm about to have a grandson >> Yeah. I'm I'm about to have a grandson >> Yeah. I'm I'm about to have a grandson and I'm like and I'm like and I'm like >> I'm going to talk to my daughter and and >> I'm going to talk to my daughter and and >> I'm going to talk to my daughter and and I think I think she's probably very much I think I think she's probably very much I think I think she's probably very much uh with this program cuz I'm like the uh with this program cuz I'm like the uh with this program cuz I'm like the kids shouldn't have a phone till they're kids shouldn't have a phone till they're kids shouldn't have a phone till they're maybe in high school or later. You know, maybe in high school or later. You know, maybe in high school or later. You know, >> eighth grade is wait until 8th. It's >> eighth grade is wait until 8th. It's >> eighth grade is wait until 8th. It's when they're they start to based on when they're they start to based on when they're they start to based on developmental stages, they start to know developmental stages, they start to know developmental stages, they start to know who they are based on their peers. And who they are based on their peers. And who they are based on their peers. And if they're getting that access to if they're getting that access to if they're getting that access to bullying 24/7, imagine I was a nerd so I bullying 24/7, imagine I was a nerd so I bullying 24/7, imagine I was a nerd so I got bullied. I cannot imagine being got bullied. I cannot imagine being got bullied. I cannot imagine being bullied 24/7 because of phone, right? bullied 24/7 because of phone, right? bullied 24/7 because of phone, right? Because Snapchat is always on, you know? Because Snapchat is always on, you know? Because Snapchat is always on, you know? So we really have to be mindful of de So we really have to be mindful of de So we really have to be mindful of de developmental stages and what our developmental stages and what our developmental stages and what our children are experiencing. That's and children are experiencing. That's and children are experiencing. That's and that's the strategy part. And then the that's the strategy part. And then the that's the strategy part. And then the the next E and reset is expectation. the next E and reset is expectation. the next E and reset is expectation. What are you hoping to get out of this? What are you hoping to get out of this? What are you hoping to get out of this? So like are you hoping to feel less So like are you hoping to feel less So like are you hoping to feel less stressed, get better sleep, feel more stressed, get better sleep, feel more stressed, get better sleep, feel more motivated, better connections, have motivated, better connections, have motivated, better connections, have clear expectations? And then the T in in clear expectations? And then the T in in clear expectations? And then the T in in reset is thoughtfulness. Did this work? reset is thoughtfulness. Did this work? reset is thoughtfulness. Did this work? Was this plan too rigid? Was it too Was this plan too rigid? Was it too Was this plan too rigid? Was it too relaxed? You know, what do we have to relaxed? You know, what do we have to relaxed? You know, what do we have to modify here? And reset is a clear modify here? And reset is a clear modify here? And reset is a clear guideline. We all need to feel safe. We guideline. We all need to feel safe. We guideline. We all need to feel safe. We need a plan. And it allows people to need a plan. And it allows people to need a plan. And it allows people to have a discussion, families to have a have a discussion, families to have a have a discussion, families to have a discussion around their tech use. discussion around their tech use. discussion around their tech use. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So it's important. I mean, we we >> Yeah. So it's important. I mean, we we >> Yeah. So it's important. I mean, we we all are addicted to our devices. And I all are addicted to our devices. And I all are addicted to our devices. And I think including myself and I think it's think including myself and I think it's think including myself and I think it's it's um in the times that I feel most it's um in the times that I feel most it's um in the times that I feel most alive, the time that I feel most joy, alive, the time that I feel most joy, alive, the time that I feel most joy, which is what we're talking about today, which is what we're talking about today, which is what we're talking about today, is when I'm not connected to a device, is when I'm not connected to a device, is when I'm not connected to a device, when I'm just in nature or with my when I'm just in nature or with my when I'm just in nature or with my friends or, you know, like, you know, friends or, you know, like, you know, friends or, you know, like, you know, last night I had some friends over for last night I had some friends over for last night I had some friends over for dinner and like there was nobody was on dinner and like there was nobody was on dinner and like there was nobody was on their phone. I mean, nobody looked at their phone. I mean, nobody looked at their phone. I mean, nobody looked at their phone. We just spent four hours their phone. We just spent four hours their phone. We just spent four hours talking and going really deep and it was talking and going really deep and it was talking and going really deep and it was it was amazing actually. I was like, it was amazing actually. I was like, it was amazing actually. I was like, "Oh, this is cool. I didn't look at my "Oh, this is cool. I didn't look at my "Oh, this is cool. I didn't look at my phone." And I think that's kind of what phone." And I think that's kind of what phone." And I think that's kind of what we're all craving. Uh we're all craving we're all craving. Uh we're all craving we're all craving. Uh we're all craving connection through our phones, but it's connection through our phones, but it's connection through our phones, but it's actually interrupting our connection actually interrupting our connection actually interrupting our connection >> and include like computers into that, >> and include like computers into that, >> and include like computers into that, too. Recently, I got locked out of my um too. Recently, I got locked out of my um too. Recently, I got locked out of my um my my my uh computer crashed and I was my my my uh computer crashed and I was my my my uh computer crashed and I was locked out of it for a day and it was so locked out of it for a day and it was so locked out of it for a day and it was so freeing. freeing. freeing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I was I I told my team like make sure >> I was I I told my team like make sure >> I was I I told my team like make sure you're not missing any important you're not missing any important you're not missing any important research or, you know, patient emails. research or, you know, patient emails. research or, you know, patient emails. But like But like But like >> it was so nice. My daughter often grabs >> it was so nice. My daughter often grabs >> it was so nice. My daughter often grabs my phone and she throws it into the my phone and she throws it into the my phone and she throws it into the bedroom. She's like that's staying in bedroom. She's like that's staying in bedroom. She's like that's staying in there, you know, while we play. She's there, you know, while we play. She's there, you know, while we play. She's learned. learned. learned. >> How old is she? >> How old is she? >> How old is she? >> She's nine. >> She's nine. >> She's nine. >> Oh, that's amazing. I want to talk about >> Oh, that's amazing. I want to talk about >> Oh, that's amazing. I want to talk about the five Vss in a minute, but I want to the five Vss in a minute, but I want to the five Vss in a minute, but I want to talk about sort of women hormones and talk about sort of women hormones and talk about sort of women hormones and the sort of midlife shift that happens. the sort of midlife shift that happens. the sort of midlife shift that happens. And you talk about this sense of lack of And you talk about this sense of lack of And you talk about this sense of lack of joy and pleasure being really common in joy and pleasure being really common in joy and pleasure being really common in women uh around particularly pmenopause women uh around particularly pmenopause women uh around particularly pmenopause and it's it's happening like both and it's it's happening like both and it's it's happening like both biologically and and emotionally. So, biologically and and emotionally. So, biologically and and emotionally. So, what what's going on and like what are what what's going on and like what are what what's going on and like what are women feeling and and you know, why are women feeling and and you know, why are women feeling and and you know, why are so many women mislabeling what they're so many women mislabeling what they're so many women mislabeling what they're experiencing as they go through this? experiencing as they go through this? experiencing as they go through this? Well, I got into this work I think Well, I got into this work I think Well, I got into this work I think accidentally because when I was in accidentally because when I was in accidentally because when I was in medical school, we I think we probably medical school, we I think we probably medical school, we I think we probably got one course on menopause got one course on menopause got one course on menopause >> and that is I'm learning >> and that is I'm learning >> and that is I'm learning >> mean one class. >> mean one class. >> mean one class. >> Literally a one class >> Literally a one class >> Literally a one class one class one class one class >> literally one class and I remember who >> literally one class and I remember who >> literally one class and I remember who gave it it was someone that I greatly gave it it was someone that I greatly gave it it was someone that I greatly admired and she's a forward thinker. admired and she's a forward thinker. admired and she's a forward thinker. She's OBGYn. That was it. And so when I She's OBGYn. That was it. And so when I She's OBGYn. That was it. And so when I was practicing in my research lab was practicing in my research lab was practicing in my research lab several years ago, we had just started several years ago, we had just started several years ago, we had just started working on the first um which is now the working on the first um which is now the working on the first um which is now the first FDA approved medication in first FDA approved medication in first FDA approved medication in postpartum depression. So it's a neuro postpartum depression. So it's a neuro postpartum depression. So it's a neuro hormone and um Brexanol, Zoranolone. Um hormone and um Brexanol, Zoranolone. Um hormone and um Brexanol, Zoranolone. Um and so what what I was seeing with these and so what what I was seeing with these and so what what I was seeing with these CL patients who were more on the older CL patients who were more on the older CL patients who were more on the older end of um the maternal spectrum was that end of um the maternal spectrum was that end of um the maternal spectrum was that when they were you know going after the when they were you know going after the when they were you know going after the giving birth they were having like a giving birth they were having like a giving birth they were having like a repeat depression not postpartum but in repeat depression not postpartum but in repeat depression not postpartum but in midlife and I just thought what's going midlife and I just thought what's going midlife and I just thought what's going on here and I was seeing a lot of the on here and I was seeing a lot of the on here and I was seeing a lot of the similar symptoms fatigue brain fog similar symptoms fatigue brain fog similar symptoms fatigue brain fog moodiness irritability and I thought is moodiness irritability and I thought is moodiness irritability and I thought is this hormonal you know and I started to this hormonal you know and I started to this hormonal you know and I started to really look out for seminars and branch really look out for seminars and branch really look out for seminars and branch out to other doctors who were looking at out to other doctors who were looking at out to other doctors who were looking at pmenopause and menopause and getting so pmenopause and menopause and getting so pmenopause and menopause and getting so many referrals of women in midlife who many referrals of women in midlife who many referrals of women in midlife who were like I have ADHD for the first time were like I have ADHD for the first time were like I have ADHD for the first time in midlife and I thought that's I mean in midlife and I thought that's I mean in midlife and I thought that's I mean it is possible women are not diagnosed it is possible women are not diagnosed it is possible women are not diagnosed as much as boys are not boys are over I as much as boys are not boys are over I as much as boys are not boys are over I think more diagnosed than than girls so think more diagnosed than than girls so think more diagnosed than than girls so it's not impossible uh you know to get a it's not impossible uh you know to get a it's not impossible uh you know to get a late diagnosis of ADHD but it was just late diagnosis of ADHD but it was just late diagnosis of ADHD but it was just sudden ADHD like you didn't have sudden ADHD like you didn't have sudden ADHD like you didn't have symptoms of lack of focus when you were symptoms of lack of focus when you were symptoms of lack of focus when you were younger you didn't have inattention younger you didn't have inattention younger you didn't have inattention or multitasking issues and why all of a or multitasking issues and why all of a or multitasking issues and why all of a sudden now and ADHD by definition is a sudden now and ADHD by definition is a sudden now and ADHD by definition is a childhood diagnosis. So you have to have childhood diagnosis. So you have to have childhood diagnosis. So you have to have the symptoms before the age of 12 the symptoms before the age of 12 the symptoms before the age of 12 >> and and it's persistent throughout life >> and and it's persistent throughout life >> and and it's persistent throughout life so it doesn't just suddenly pop up in so it doesn't just suddenly pop up in so it doesn't just suddenly pop up in midlife. So midlife. So midlife. So >> Oh yeah, I think a lot of us have >> Oh yeah, I think a lot of us have >> Oh yeah, I think a lot of us have acquired ADD because of our culture and acquired ADD because of our culture and acquired ADD because of our culture and our stimulation. So it's like you know our stimulation. So it's like you know our stimulation. So it's like you know >> maybe maybe that's the wrong term for it >> maybe maybe that's the wrong term for it >> maybe maybe that's the wrong term for it but it just feels like we live in a but it just feels like we live in a but it just feels like we live in a distracted world distracted world distracted world >> but usually so ADHD has to be present in >> but usually so ADHD has to be present in >> but usually so ADHD has to be present in two settings. So it can't just be at two settings. So it can't just be at two settings. So it can't just be at work where you know or at home. It has work where you know or at home. It has work where you know or at home. It has to be in two settings since childhood. to be in two settings since childhood. to be in two settings since childhood. Yeah. And definitely things contribute Yeah. And definitely things contribute Yeah. And definitely things contribute to a lack of focus. But ADHD has you to a lack of focus. But ADHD has you to a lack of focus. But ADHD has you know symptoms of impulsiveness. You know know symptoms of impulsiveness. You know know symptoms of impulsiveness. You know people getting into heated arguments and people getting into heated arguments and people getting into heated arguments and rejection sensitivity um you know losing rejection sensitivity um you know losing rejection sensitivity um you know losing things uh having a hard time you know things uh having a hard time you know things uh having a hard time you know organizing organizing organizing >> um attention to detail. So it's it's >> um attention to detail. So it's it's >> um attention to detail. So it's it's really a lot of symptoms. And you know I really a lot of symptoms. And you know I really a lot of symptoms. And you know I what these women were actually what these women were actually what these women were actually experiencing was a lack of concentration experiencing was a lack of concentration experiencing was a lack of concentration due to you know these hormonal due to you know these hormonal due to you know these hormonal fluctuations. fluctuations. fluctuations. >> And so putting them on a stimulant yeah >> And so putting them on a stimulant yeah >> And so putting them on a stimulant yeah it might help a little bit because it might help a little bit because it might help a little bit because everyone benefits from a stimulant at everyone benefits from a stimulant at everyone benefits from a stimulant at some point but it doesn't really correct some point but it doesn't really correct some point but it doesn't really correct the the course of what's happening the the course of what's happening the the course of what's happening because they're also having these because they're also having these because they're also having these physical symptoms. They're having the physical symptoms. They're having the physical symptoms. They're having the dry itchy skin dry itchy skin dry itchy skin >> the hair you know changes um the poor >> the hair you know changes um the poor >> the hair you know changes um the poor sleep the urinary issues and so forth. sleep the urinary issues and so forth. sleep the urinary issues and so forth. So, um, I developed a a system called So, um, I developed a a system called So, um, I developed a a system called the TAI method to help my patients the TAI method to help my patients the TAI method to help my patients identify whether or not they were going identify whether or not they were going identify whether or not they were going through something related to hormones through something related to hormones through something related to hormones versus another psychiatric condition versus another psychiatric condition versus another psychiatric condition like depression. like depression. like depression. >> And it's interesting because >> And it's interesting because >> And it's interesting because >> major depressive disorder, when you look >> major depressive disorder, when you look >> major depressive disorder, when you look at the DSM5 and in all the research, at the DSM5 and in all the research, at the DSM5 and in all the research, there are no physical symptoms under there are no physical symptoms under there are no physical symptoms under major depressive disorder. And so, I at major depressive disorder. And so, I at major depressive disorder. And so, I at first I started teaching my clients first I started teaching my clients first I started teaching my clients about the three Ps. So how do you know about the three Ps. So how do you know about the three Ps. So how do you know if it's depression or if it's uh mood if it's depression or if it's uh mood if it's depression or if it's uh mood symptoms or related to permenopause symptoms or related to permenopause symptoms or related to permenopause shifts right? So the first P is period shifts right? So the first P is period shifts right? So the first P is period changes. changes. changes. >> There is nowhere in the literature under >> There is nowhere in the literature under >> There is nowhere in the literature under major depressive disorder where your major depressive disorder where your major depressive disorder where your period should be changing in terms of period should be changing in terms of period should be changing in terms of like how heavy it is how infrequent it like how heavy it is how infrequent it like how heavy it is how infrequent it is you know the cycling. So if you're is you know the cycling. So if you're is you know the cycling. So if you're having period changes and mood changes having period changes and mood changes having period changes and mood changes talk to your doctor about parmenopause talk to your doctor about parmenopause talk to your doctor about parmenopause or menopause. The second P is physical or menopause. The second P is physical or menopause. The second P is physical changes. You know, I mentioned some of changes. You know, I mentioned some of changes. You know, I mentioned some of those, the urinary, you know, having to those, the urinary, you know, having to those, the urinary, you know, having to urinate a lot. Um, you know, the itchy urinate a lot. Um, you know, the itchy urinate a lot. Um, you know, the itchy skin, the hot flashes, the palpitations. skin, the hot flashes, the palpitations. skin, the hot flashes, the palpitations. None of those are under major depressive None of those are under major depressive None of those are under major depressive disorder. Yes, you can have palpitations disorder. Yes, you can have palpitations disorder. Yes, you can have palpitations with generalized anxiety disorder, but with generalized anxiety disorder, but with generalized anxiety disorder, but not major depressive disorder. So, not major depressive disorder. So, not major depressive disorder. So, another red flag. And then the third is another red flag. And then the third is another red flag. And then the third is your past history. The last P, people your past history. The last P, people your past history. The last P, people who have a history of things like PTSD, who have a history of things like PTSD, who have a history of things like PTSD, bipolar disorder, trauma, they're going bipolar disorder, trauma, they're going bipolar disorder, trauma, they're going to be more vulnerable during midlife to be more vulnerable during midlife to be more vulnerable during midlife with those hormone fluctuations. So even with those hormone fluctuations. So even with those hormone fluctuations. So even if you have a history of ADHD, some it if you have a history of ADHD, some it if you have a history of ADHD, some it will get worse during midlife because will get worse during midlife because will get worse during midlife because hormonal fluctuations impact your brain hormonal fluctuations impact your brain hormonal fluctuations impact your brain chemicals. They impact dopamine, chemicals. They impact dopamine, chemicals. They impact dopamine, serotonin, GABA for anxiety, melatonin serotonin, GABA for anxiety, melatonin serotonin, GABA for anxiety, melatonin for sleep. So it's all, you know, tied for sleep. So it's all, you know, tied for sleep. So it's all, you know, tied together, no pun intended. And then the together, no pun intended. And then the together, no pun intended. And then the S in ties. So, those are the three Ps, S in ties. So, those are the three Ps, S in ties. So, those are the three Ps, but I'll go into the the ties method. but I'll go into the the ties method. but I'll go into the the ties method. So, the T is the thinking thinking uh So, the T is the thinking thinking uh So, the T is the thinking thinking uh memory problems like brain fog. You're memory problems like brain fog. You're memory problems like brain fog. You're about to say something tip of your about to say something tip of your about to say something tip of your tongue, you forget it. Um the I uh in tongue, you forget it. Um the I uh in tongue, you forget it. Um the I uh in ties is identity issues. So, a lot of ties is identity issues. So, a lot of ties is identity issues. So, a lot of women will say that they don't know who women will say that they don't know who women will say that they don't know who they are anymore. They feel like they're they are anymore. They feel like they're they are anymore. They feel like they're losing themselves. The E is the symptoms losing themselves. The E is the symptoms losing themselves. The E is the symptoms of emotional fluctuations like mood, of emotional fluctuations like mood, of emotional fluctuations like mood, moodiness, anxiety, and so forth. And moodiness, anxiety, and so forth. And moodiness, anxiety, and so forth. And then the S is sleep. So, you have then the S is sleep. So, you have then the S is sleep. So, you have problems with sleep. So the three Ps problems with sleep. So the three Ps problems with sleep. So the three Ps help you to dist distinguish whether help you to dist distinguish whether help you to dist distinguish whether it's you know due to a primary uh it's you know due to a primary uh it's you know due to a primary uh psychiatry condition versus hormonal psychiatry condition versus hormonal psychiatry condition versus hormonal fluctuations causing these psychiatric fluctuations causing these psychiatric fluctuations causing these psychiatric symptoms and then the ties allows you to symptoms and then the ties allows you to symptoms and then the ties allows you to understand what are the mental health understand what are the mental health understand what are the mental health symptoms related to these hormonal symptoms related to these hormonal symptoms related to these hormonal fluctuations so you get the right fluctuations so you get the right fluctuations so you get the right treatment because it's very different treatment because it's very different treatment because it's very different getting hormonal treatments and then getting hormonal treatments and then getting hormonal treatments and then having your body feeling relieved and having your body feeling relieved and having your body feeling relieved and then your brain feeling relieved versus then your brain feeling relieved versus then your brain feeling relieved versus someone you know giving you an someone you know giving you an someone you know giving you an anti-depressant and then you still have anti-depressant and then you still have anti-depressant and then you still have all these physical symptoms. what you're all these physical symptoms. what you're all these physical symptoms. what you're saying is so important. You know, there saying is so important. You know, there saying is so important. You know, there there's there there sort of continuum there's there there sort of continuum there's there there sort of continuum between psychological causes of mood between psychological causes of mood between psychological causes of mood disorders and biological causes and they disorders and biological causes and they disorders and biological causes and they overlap and they kind of reinforce each overlap and they kind of reinforce each overlap and they kind of reinforce each other, but it's important to get the other, but it's important to get the other, but it's important to get the biological things out of the way so you biological things out of the way so you biological things out of the way so you can deal with the psychological things. can deal with the psychological things. can deal with the psychological things. >> Yeah, you you may still need an SSRI. >> Yeah, you you may still need an SSRI. >> Yeah, you you may still need an SSRI. You still may benefit from the support You still may benefit from the support You still may benefit from the support of a stimulant, but it's very difficult of a stimulant, but it's very difficult of a stimulant, but it's very difficult to get through a day and not feel moody to get through a day and not feel moody to get through a day and not feel moody if you're sweating. Yeah. you know, if if you're sweating. Yeah. you know, if if you're sweating. Yeah. you know, if you're if you're feeling itchy and you you're if you're feeling itchy and you you're if you're feeling itchy and you don't happy with the way you look. don't happy with the way you look. don't happy with the way you look. >> Yeah. My joke is I always say it's much >> Yeah. My joke is I always say it's much >> Yeah. My joke is I always say it's much easier to be enlightened if your B12 easier to be enlightened if your B12 easier to be enlightened if your B12 levels normal or your thyroid's working levels normal or your thyroid's working levels normal or your thyroid's working or you're non- mercury poisoned, you or you're non- mercury poisoned, you or you're non- mercury poisoned, you know, like you you can meditate on it know, like you you can meditate on it know, like you you can meditate on it all you want, but if these things are all you want, but if these things are all you want, but if these things are not optimizing your biology, then your not optimizing your biology, then your not optimizing your biology, then your brain can't function properly and then brain can't function properly and then brain can't function properly and then your mood is affected and your your mood is affected and your your mood is affected and your well-being is affected and your ability well-being is affected and your ability well-being is affected and your ability to experience joy is affected. all these to experience joy is affected. all these to experience joy is affected. all these things can be actually managed. And so things can be actually managed. And so things can be actually managed. And so you kind of have to work on both ends of you kind of have to work on both ends of you kind of have to work on both ends of the spectrum. You know, both your the spectrum. You know, both your the spectrum. You know, both your psychological patterning and your psychological patterning and your psychological patterning and your beliefs and your childhood traumas, but beliefs and your childhood traumas, but beliefs and your childhood traumas, but also you, you know, we have so many also you, you know, we have so many also you, you know, we have so many people with biological things going on people with biological things going on people with biological things going on in function health. We we 80 million in function health. We we 80 million in function health. We we 80 million biomarkers now and half a million biomarkers now and half a million biomarkers now and half a million people. And it's it's just stunning to people. And it's it's just stunning to people. And it's it's just stunning to me to see the number of of people with me to see the number of of people with me to see the number of of people with undiagnosed things that are affecting undiagnosed things that are affecting undiagnosed things that are affecting the quality of your life. And it's, you the quality of your life. And it's, you the quality of your life. And it's, you know, like 13% have autoimmune thyroid know, like 13% have autoimmune thyroid know, like 13% have autoimmune thyroid disease, 70% have a nutritional disease, 70% have a nutritional disease, 70% have a nutritional deficiency at the minimum level for deficiency at the minimum level for deficiency at the minimum level for deficiency disease, not what's optimal, deficiency disease, not what's optimal, deficiency disease, not what's optimal, like vitamin D or iron or, you know, like vitamin D or iron or, you know, like vitamin D or iron or, you know, omega-3s. And and we're seeing that omega-3s. And and we're seeing that omega-3s. And and we're seeing that we're seeing it's 46% of people with we're seeing it's 46% of people with we're seeing it's 46% of people with inflammation that's affecting them. We inflammation that's affecting them. We inflammation that's affecting them. We see probably 90% with some metabolic see probably 90% with some metabolic see probably 90% with some metabolic insulin resistance problem. It's on the insulin resistance problem. It's on the insulin resistance problem. It's on the spectrum of that. We have 65% who have spectrum of that. We have 65% who have spectrum of that. We have 65% who have insulin levels that are over the limit insulin levels that are over the limit insulin levels that are over the limit of the lab test which is way too high. of the lab test which is way too high. of the lab test which is way too high. It's like 18 for insulin. It should be It's like 18 for insulin. It should be It's like 18 for insulin. It should be five or less. And 65% of people who do five or less. And 65% of people who do five or less. And 65% of people who do our diagnostics and these are health our diagnostics and these are health our diagnostics and these are health people are over 18. So this is a people are over 18. So this is a people are over 18. So this is a staggering problem and if we don't deal staggering problem and if we don't deal staggering problem and if we don't deal with the biological effects it's going with the biological effects it's going with the biological effects it's going to be hard to deal with the to be hard to deal with the to be hard to deal with the psychological stuff. As you know I talk psychological stuff. As you know I talk psychological stuff. As you know I talk a lot about protein especially as we age a lot about protein especially as we age a lot about protein especially as we age but not all proteins are the same. but not all proteins are the same. but not all proteins are the same. Collagen is actually the most abundant Collagen is actually the most abundant Collagen is actually the most abundant protein in your body. It's the glue that protein in your body. It's the glue that protein in your body. It's the glue that holds you together. Your skin, your holds you together. Your skin, your holds you together. Your skin, your joints, your bones, your connective joints, your bones, your connective joints, your bones, your connective tissues. And after the age of 20, our tissues. And after the age of 20, our tissues. And after the age of 20, our bodies start producing less collagen, bodies start producing less collagen, bodies start producing less collagen, which contributes to the changes we which contributes to the changes we which contributes to the changes we notice in skin, in joints, and in bones notice in skin, in joints, and in bones notice in skin, in joints, and in bones over time. Traditionally, we got over time. Traditionally, we got over time. Traditionally, we got collagen from nose totail foods. Think collagen from nose totail foods. Think collagen from nose totail foods. Think slowcooked stews, bone broth, and slowcooked stews, bone broth, and slowcooked stews, bone broth, and connective tissue. But most modern diets connective tissue. But most modern diets connective tissue. But most modern diets don't include those foods, which is why don't include those foods, which is why don't include those foods, which is why supplementing with high quality collagen supplementing with high quality collagen supplementing with high quality collagen source can be really helpful. And that's source can be really helpful. And that's source can be really helpful. And that's why I like Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed why I like Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed why I like Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed bone broth protein. It's made from bones bone broth protein. It's made from bones bone broth protein. It's made from bones of grass-fed and finished cattle raised of grass-fed and finished cattle raised of grass-fed and finished cattle raised on American Regenerative Farms. And it's on American Regenerative Farms. And it's on American Regenerative Farms. And it's made simply with water and bones. No made simply with water and bones. No made simply with water and bones. No harsh chemicals, no fillers, and it's harsh chemicals, no fillers, and it's harsh chemicals, no fillers, and it's rich in collagen and glycine, which is rich in collagen and glycine, which is rich in collagen and glycine, which is an amino acid we often don't get enough an amino acid we often don't get enough an amino acid we often don't get enough of. Now, collagen supplementation has of. Now, collagen supplementation has of. Now, collagen supplementation has been shown to support skin health and been shown to support skin health and been shown to support skin health and joint comfort. And glycine may have a joint comfort. And glycine may have a joint comfort. And glycine may have a role in overall health as well. I'll role in overall health as well. I'll role in overall health as well. I'll often add it to my tea or a smoothie. often add it to my tea or a smoothie. often add it to my tea or a smoothie. And the chocolate flavor even makes a And the chocolate flavor even makes a And the chocolate flavor even makes a delicious hot cocoa. It's an easy delicious hot cocoa. It's an easy delicious hot cocoa. It's an easy ancestral inspired way to support your ancestral inspired way to support your ancestral inspired way to support your body with collagen every single day. So body with collagen every single day. So body with collagen every single day. So head to paleobal.com/heimman head to paleobal.com/heimman head to paleobal.com/heimman for 15% off or use the code him at for 15% off or use the code him at for 15% off or use the code him at checkout. That's paleo valley palo checkout. That's paleo valley palo checkout. That's paleo valley palo valley.com/hyimman valley.com/hyimman valley.com/hyimman for 15% off and use the codeman. Is for 15% off and use the codeman. Is for 15% off and use the codeman. Is coffee good or bad for me? This is a coffee good or bad for me? This is a coffee good or bad for me? This is a question I get asked all the time and question I get asked all the time and question I get asked all the time and here's the truth. Coffee isn't here's the truth. Coffee isn't here's the truth. Coffee isn't inherently bad. It's a major source of inherently bad. It's a major source of inherently bad. It's a major source of healthful antioxidants in the American healthful antioxidants in the American healthful antioxidants in the American diet and it can boost mood, memory, diet and it can boost mood, memory, diet and it can boost mood, memory, metabolism, even sports performance. But metabolism, even sports performance. But metabolism, even sports performance. But coffee can also be addictive. It can coffee can also be addictive. It can coffee can also be addictive. It can spike your stress hormones. It can spike your stress hormones. It can spike your stress hormones. It can irritate your gut and it can leave you irritate your gut and it can leave you irritate your gut and it can leave you crashing later. Now, some people handle crashing later. Now, some people handle crashing later. Now, some people handle it fine while others don't. It really it fine while others don't. It really it fine while others don't. It really depends on your biology, your stress depends on your biology, your stress depends on your biology, your stress level, and your happy. And that's why I level, and your happy. And that's why I level, and your happy. And that's why I enjoy Nandaka from Peak. It's a coffee enjoy Nandaka from Peak. It's a coffee enjoy Nandaka from Peak. It's a coffee alternative designed for people who alternative designed for people who alternative designed for people who think in decades, not hours. Nandaka think in decades, not hours. Nandaka think in decades, not hours. 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If you want a smarter, more sustainable way to start your mornings, sustainable way to start your mornings, sustainable way to start your mornings, get up to 20% off nondac and begin your get up to 20% off nondac and begin your get up to 20% off nondac and begin your intentional wellness journey at intentional wellness journey at intentional wellness journey at peaklife.com/heimman. peaklife.com/heimman. peaklife.com/heimman. That's p i queueife.com/heimman. But kind of let's let's kind of shift But kind of let's let's kind of shift over to to this joy because I think over to to this joy because I think over to to this joy because I think that's ultimately what we want to feel that's ultimately what we want to feel that's ultimately what we want to feel and we want to be happy. We want to Daly and we want to be happy. We want to Daly and we want to be happy. We want to Daly Lman talks about this. sort of like how Lman talks about this. sort of like how Lman talks about this. sort of like how do you how do you find happiness, right? do you how do you find happiness, right? do you how do you find happiness, right? >> Um and and you talk about these five Bs >> Um and and you talk about these five Bs >> Um and and you talk about these five Bs and reclaiming joy and and the future of and reclaiming joy and and the future of and reclaiming joy and and the future of sort of mental health. So, I'd love you sort of mental health. So, I'd love you sort of mental health. So, I'd love you to kind of walk through how how we can to kind of walk through how how we can to kind of walk through how how we can approach this differently. You say we're approach this differently. You say we're approach this differently. You say we're wired for joy, but we forget how to wired for joy, but we forget how to wired for joy, but we forget how to access it. Like what does that mean? And access it. Like what does that mean? And access it. Like what does that mean? And can you walk through the five Bs and how can you walk through the five Bs and how can you walk through the five Bs and how some would start applying these this some would start applying these this some would start applying these this framework? And I love your little framework? And I love your little framework? And I love your little acronisms and your little acronisms and your little acronisms and your little >> I teach student medical students and >> I teach student medical students and >> I teach student medical students and doctors. So, you have to have the doctors. So, you have to have the doctors. So, you have to have the acronyms. We, you know, we love that in acronyms. We, you know, we love that in acronyms. We, you know, we love that in medicine, right? medicine, right? medicine, right? >> Well, when I when I developed the 5Vs, I >> Well, when I when I developed the 5Vs, I >> Well, when I when I developed the 5Vs, I wanted people to have a very simple way wanted people to have a very simple way wanted people to have a very simple way of tapping into one or two tools to of tapping into one or two tools to of tapping into one or two tools to reclaim joy. Not doing all five at once. reclaim joy. Not doing all five at once. reclaim joy. Not doing all five at once. Like, don't be high functioning like Like, don't be high functioning like Like, don't be high functioning like that. Pick one or two. that. Pick one or two. that. Pick one or two. >> Don't overachieve in the >> Don't overachieve in the >> Don't overachieve in the >> cuz sometimes you become super unhappy >> cuz sometimes you become super unhappy >> cuz sometimes you become super unhappy trying to chase after these u points of trying to chase after these u points of trying to chase after these u points of joy. But really think about joy. But really think about joy. But really think about >> one or two things. And I think starting >> one or two things. And I think starting >> one or two things. And I think starting with validation is important. Like how with validation is important. Like how with validation is important. Like how you mentioned when you finally realized you mentioned when you finally realized you mentioned when you finally realized that that that >> it was your need to be loved and your >> it was your need to be loved and your >> it was your need to be loved and your need to find selfworth that allowed you need to find selfworth that allowed you need to find selfworth that allowed you to realize I don't have to do to realize I don't have to do to realize I don't have to do everything. everything. everything. >> I can actually relax a bit. >> I can actually relax a bit. >> I can actually relax a bit. >> I think many people struggle with the >> I think many people struggle with the >> I think many people struggle with the first V which is I think the most first V which is I think the most first V which is I think the most important. So validation is accepting important. So validation is accepting important. So validation is accepting and acknowledging what you're and acknowledging what you're and acknowledging what you're experiencing and feeling without experiencing and feeling without experiencing and feeling without judgment. You know, judgment. You know, judgment. You know, >> and that's super hard for many of us who >> and that's super hard for many of us who >> and that's super hard for many of us who are whatever it is, if it's sad, are whatever it is, if it's sad, are whatever it is, if it's sad, whatever it is, depression. Yeah. whatever it is, depression. Yeah. whatever it is, depression. Yeah. >> And I think for many of us who are >> And I think for many of us who are >> And I think for many of us who are accustomed to pushing down our feelings, accustomed to pushing down our feelings, accustomed to pushing down our feelings, we just push down. We push down. But the we just push down. We push down. But the we just push down. We push down. But the problem with that is if you continue problem with that is if you continue problem with that is if you continue pushing down the negative and not pushing down the negative and not pushing down the negative and not processing, then you push down the processing, then you push down the processing, then you push down the ability to feel that joy. ability to feel that joy. ability to feel that joy. >> And so with valid with validation, >> And so with valid with validation, >> And so with valid with validation, imagine you're in a very dark room and imagine you're in a very dark room and imagine you're in a very dark room and you can't see anything. and you're like, you can't see anything. and you're like, you can't see anything. and you're like, you hear this loud crash, you know, some you hear this loud crash, you know, some you hear this loud crash, you know, some of us would start screaming, some would of us would start screaming, some would of us would start screaming, some would start swinging, depending on how you start swinging, depending on how you start swinging, depending on how you were raised, others would just like were raised, others would just like were raised, others would just like freak out, right? But if you turn the freak out, right? But if you turn the freak out, right? But if you turn the light on and you saw that, oh, it was light on and you saw that, oh, it was light on and you saw that, oh, it was just like a vase that fell, just like a vase that fell, just like a vase that fell, >> then you're you feel safe. You know, the >> then you're you feel safe. You know, the >> then you're you feel safe. You know, the mess is still there, the problem's still mess is still there, the problem's still mess is still there, the problem's still there, but at least you know what you're there, but at least you know what you're there, but at least you know what you're dealing with. M dealing with. M dealing with. M >> and so when you shared your story about >> and so when you shared your story about >> and so when you shared your story about I finally understood, you know, what it I finally understood, you know, what it I finally understood, you know, what it was that was driving me, you know, the was that was driving me, you know, the was that was driving me, you know, the problem's still there. problem's still there. problem's still there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But at least you know what you're >> But at least you know what you're >> But at least you know what you're dealing with. And the human brain does dealing with. And the human brain does dealing with. And the human brain does not like uncertainty. not like uncertainty. not like uncertainty. >> So knowing what you're working with is >> So knowing what you're working with is >> So knowing what you're working with is very powerful. But many of us try to run very powerful. But many of us try to run very powerful. But many of us try to run from it. from it. from it. >> So validating your emotions, what you're >> So validating your emotions, what you're >> So validating your emotions, what you're feeling feeling feeling >> and accepting >> and accepting >> and accepting >> whatever the quality of those emotions >> whatever the quality of those emotions >> whatever the quality of those emotions are, right? are, right? are, right? >> Saying, "Okay, this is what's happening >> Saying, "Okay, this is what's happening >> Saying, "Okay, this is what's happening for me." for me." for me." >> Yeah. And it sounds so simple and >> Yeah. And it sounds so simple and >> Yeah. And it sounds so simple and granery, but it is, I think, the hardest granery, but it is, I think, the hardest granery, but it is, I think, the hardest step step step >> for a lot of high functioning folks. >> for a lot of high functioning folks. >> for a lot of high functioning folks. They don't want to deal with it. They're They don't want to deal with it. They're They don't want to deal with it. They're trying to outrun it, trying to outrun it, trying to outrun it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And they think they're chasing >> And they think they're chasing >> And they think they're chasing happiness, but they're trying to outrun happiness, but they're trying to outrun happiness, but they're trying to outrun something they haven't processed in the something they haven't processed in the something they haven't processed in the past. past. past. >> And then the second V is venting. And >> And then the second V is venting. And >> And then the second V is venting. And this is how you express in an authentic this is how you express in an authentic this is how you express in an authentic way what you're going through. So way what you're going through. So way what you're going through. So venting can be verbal. You know, if you venting can be verbal. You know, if you venting can be verbal. You know, if you have a therapist, great. Like when have a therapist, great. Like when have a therapist, great. Like when people come to see me, you know, you're people come to see me, you know, you're people come to see me, you know, you're paying me, so you can say whatever you paying me, so you can say whatever you paying me, so you can say whatever you want. Sometimes people just come in, want. Sometimes people just come in, want. Sometimes people just come in, they're like, they don't even ask how they're like, they don't even ask how they're like, they don't even ask how you're doing. It's just like right into you're doing. It's just like right into you're doing. It's just like right into the session, which is fine. You're the session, which is fine. You're the session, which is fine. You're paying for that, right? But when you paying for that, right? But when you paying for that, right? But when you don't have someone who's a mental health don't have someone who's a mental health don't have someone who's a mental health professional and you're venting, be very professional and you're venting, be very professional and you're venting, be very careful because, careful because, careful because, >> you know, some people use it against >> you know, some people use it against >> you know, some people use it against you. So, be thoughtful about who you're you. So, be thoughtful about who you're you. So, be thoughtful about who you're going to vent to. Is it one or two going to vent to. Is it one or two going to vent to. Is it one or two people where there's confidentiality? people where there's confidentiality? people where there's confidentiality? Yeah. And I go to you, you come to me. Yeah. And I go to you, you come to me. Yeah. And I go to you, you come to me. We don't gossip. It stays here. We don't gossip. It stays here. We don't gossip. It stays here. >> And there's reciprocity. You know, I'm >> And there's reciprocity. You know, I'm >> And there's reciprocity. You know, I'm gonna ask for consent before emotional gonna ask for consent before emotional gonna ask for consent before emotional consent. Is this a good time? Can I talk consent. Is this a good time? Can I talk consent. Is this a good time? Can I talk to you about to you about to you about >> Can I dump on you right now? >> Can I dump on you right now? >> Can I dump on you right now? >> It's like the opposite of trauma >> It's like the opposite of trauma >> It's like the opposite of trauma dumping. It's like, can we can we get dumping. It's like, can we can we get dumping. It's like, can we can we get together and talk because I need to together and talk because I need to together and talk because I need to process something? And it's not with the process something? And it's not with the process something? And it's not with the expectation that they're going to tell expectation that they're going to tell expectation that they're going to tell you what you want to hear. I think a lot you what you want to hear. I think a lot you what you want to hear. I think a lot of us pick people that we want to of us pick people that we want to of us pick people that we want to they're going to tell us what we want to they're going to tell us what we want to they're going to tell us what we want to hear. So, that's where we go to them. hear. So, that's where we go to them. hear. So, that's where we go to them. >> Venting in the right way is intentional. >> Venting in the right way is intentional. >> Venting in the right way is intentional. You want to come up with a solution You want to come up with a solution You want to come up with a solution that's going to help you that's going to help you that's going to help you >> and help you to grow and move forward. >> and help you to grow and move forward. >> and help you to grow and move forward. >> And then really think about the >> And then really think about the >> And then really think about the hierarchy. Who are you venting to? hierarchy. Who are you venting to? hierarchy. Who are you venting to? >> It shouldn't be your kids because your >> It shouldn't be your kids because your >> It shouldn't be your kids because your children will not children will not children will not >> reject you. They want to attach to you, >> reject you. They want to attach to you, >> reject you. They want to attach to you, but they'll worry about you. You know, but they'll worry about you. You know, but they'll worry about you. You know, your employees, they're not going to your employees, they're not going to your employees, they're not going to say, "Shut up, boss." Right? They're say, "Shut up, boss." Right? They're say, "Shut up, boss." Right? They're going to say, "Oh, all right. I'm going to say, "Oh, all right. I'm going to say, "Oh, all right. I'm listening to this guy." But they're listening to this guy." But they're listening to this guy." But they're going to go home and then trauma dump on going to go home and then trauma dump on going to go home and then trauma dump on their family. Right? So, really be their family. Right? So, really be their family. Right? So, really be mindful about the hierarchy. mindful about the hierarchy. mindful about the hierarchy. >> I I have a question. Yeah. >> I I have a question. Yeah. >> I I have a question. Yeah. >> I mean, what about if your your children >> I mean, what about if your your children >> I mean, what about if your your children are adults, you know, like what if are adults, you know, like what if are adults, you know, like what if they're mature adults? Like what? they're mature adults? Like what? they're mature adults? Like what? Because I I struggle with like how much Because I I struggle with like how much Because I I struggle with like how much do I tell my kids? How much do I tell my do I tell my kids? How much do I tell my do I tell my kids? How much do I tell my daughter? Like what I'm going through? daughter? Like what I'm going through? daughter? Like what I'm going through? Like what how how do you think about Like what how how do you think about Like what how how do you think about that? that? that? >> Cuz your kid's nine. Obviously, you're >> Cuz your kid's nine. Obviously, you're >> Cuz your kid's nine. Obviously, you're not going to do that, but mine's 38 not going to do that, but mine's 38 not going to do that, but mine's 38 almost 39. So, almost 39. So, almost 39. So, >> I think I think that's a really great >> I think I think that's a really great >> I think I think that's a really great question because developmental level is question because developmental level is question because developmental level is super important. And I have this super important. And I have this super important. And I have this conversation about a host of things with conversation about a host of things with conversation about a host of things with parents in my office when let's say parents in my office when let's say parents in my office when let's say there's like a death of a grandparent there's like a death of a grandparent there's like a death of a grandparent and they have to be able to deliver that and they have to be able to deliver that and they have to be able to deliver that news to a child, right? So there are news to a child, right? So there are news to a child, right? So there are developmental stages you want to think developmental stages you want to think developmental stages you want to think about. about. about. >> If you have an adult child and this is >> If you have an adult child and this is >> If you have an adult child and this is not something that you've done since the not something that you've done since the not something that you've done since the child was young, right? You don't want child was young, right? You don't want child was young, right? You don't want to retraumatize them. You know, it's to retraumatize them. You know, it's to retraumatize them. You know, it's different than if you had a child you different than if you had a child you different than if you had a child you your when the child was very young and your when the child was very young and your when the child was very young and you told them about your problems and you told them about your problems and you told them about your problems and you continue. you continue. you continue. >> My mother did that to me. It was not >> My mother did that to me. It was not >> My mother did that to me. It was not good. good. good. >> I'm just saying that was not good. >> I'm just saying that was not good. >> I'm just saying that was not good. >> It's it's not because you know it's it's >> It's it's not because you know it's it's >> It's it's not because you know it's it's really burdening this child and they really burdening this child and they really burdening this child and they worry and they don't want they that's worry and they don't want they that's worry and they don't want they that's how they've learned to attach to you is how they've learned to attach to you is how they've learned to attach to you is by like being your go-to and that's by like being your go-to and that's by like being your go-to and that's >> well who is their go-to? You know, >> well who is their go-to? You know, >> well who is their go-to? You know, >> uh it becomes very unsafe for them. So, >> uh it becomes very unsafe for them. So, >> uh it becomes very unsafe for them. So, it's very different if that's was not it's very different if that's was not it's very different if that's was not your relationship when your child was your relationship when your child was your relationship when your child was young and then they're an adult now and young and then they're an adult now and young and then they're an adult now and they're professional. Totally fine. I they're professional. Totally fine. I they're professional. Totally fine. I think once you do set like they're not think once you do set like they're not think once you do set like they're not your person that you dump everything on your person that you dump everything on your person that you dump everything on to, it's like, oh, I need help with to, it's like, oh, I need help with to, it's like, oh, I need help with something. I think that's appropriate. something. I think that's appropriate. something. I think that's appropriate. >> But you want to also think about that >> But you want to also think about that >> But you want to also think about that adult child too because if this is an adult child too because if this is an adult child too because if this is an adult child who has their own mental adult child who has their own mental adult child who has their own mental health, you know, challenges and they health, you know, challenges and they health, you know, challenges and they have their own traumas and they're not have their own traumas and they're not have their own traumas and they're not and they're fragile, then then maybe not and they're fragile, then then maybe not and they're fragile, then then maybe not an appropriate person. So an appropriate person. So an appropriate person. So >> it's a great question but it it is case >> it's a great question but it it is case >> it's a great question but it it is case by case. by case. by case. >> So the validation venting >> So the validation venting >> So the validation venting >> uh and it can be through journaling >> uh and it can be through journaling >> uh and it can be through journaling through other healthy outlets through through other healthy outlets through through other healthy outlets through processing through workshops through all processing through workshops through all processing through workshops through all kinds of ways to kind of get stuff out. kinds of ways to kind of get stuff out. kinds of ways to kind of get stuff out. >> Journaling is a great way. I mean once >> Journaling is a great way. I mean once >> Journaling is a great way. I mean once there's something about that hand eye there's something about that hand eye there's something about that hand eye coordination and getting something onto coordination and getting something onto coordination and getting something onto paper and unpacking it and then putting paper and unpacking it and then putting paper and unpacking it and then putting it away that I find powerful for many of it away that I find powerful for many of it away that I find powerful for many of my young my Jenzie clients. They love to my young my Jenzie clients. They love to my young my Jenzie clients. They love to journal journal journal >> and they're just like Dr. J. I just like >> and they're just like Dr. J. I just like >> and they're just like Dr. J. I just like wrote it all out and I put it and then wrote it all out and I put it and then wrote it all out and I put it and then it was there. it was there. it was there. >> Yeah. it was like a compartmentalization >> Yeah. it was like a compartmentalization >> Yeah. it was like a compartmentalization for them. Um, but for my older clients, for them. Um, but for my older clients, for them. Um, but for my older clients, like you know, people who are my dad's like you know, people who are my dad's like you know, people who are my dad's age, they're very faith-based. And so I age, they're very faith-based. And so I age, they're very faith-based. And so I I joke that my dad's a pastor, I joke I joke that my dad's a pastor, I joke I joke that my dad's a pastor, I joke that he'll never go to therapy, but that that he'll never go to therapy, but that that he'll never go to therapy, but that man can pray. He prays three times a man can pray. He prays three times a man can pray. He prays three times a day. And that's his venting. So you have day. And that's his venting. So you have day. And that's his venting. So you have to do what feels authentic. to do what feels authentic. to do what feels authentic. >> Yeah. Yeah. So then the next B is >> Yeah. Yeah. So then the next B is >> Yeah. Yeah. So then the next B is values. values. values. >> Values. U one that I struggled with for >> Values. U one that I struggled with for >> Values. U one that I struggled with for a long time because I was chasing these a long time because I was chasing these a long time because I was chasing these things that were the clout, you know, things that were the clout, you know, things that were the clout, you know, the the degrees. At one point I was the the degrees. At one point I was the the degrees. At one point I was like, I want to get a JD, too. And I was like, I want to get a JD, too. And I was like, I want to get a JD, too. And I was like, this is this is out of control. like, this is this is out of control. like, this is this is out of control. Like MDMBA and a JD. Like, what are you Like MDMBA and a JD. Like, what are you Like MDMBA and a JD. Like, what are you trying to prove here? trying to prove here? trying to prove here? >> Plus, it's very expensive. But, you >> Plus, it's very expensive. But, you >> Plus, it's very expensive. But, you know, when I started to focus on the know, when I started to focus on the know, when I started to focus on the things that really mattered, like my you things that really mattered, like my you things that really mattered, like my you going to be a doctor, a lawyer, and a going to be a doctor, a lawyer, and a going to be a doctor, a lawyer, and a CEO, right? I love that. CEO, right? I love that. CEO, right? I love that. >> But yeah, you know, we we chase the >> But yeah, you know, we we chase the >> But yeah, you know, we we chase the things that are the superficial values things that are the superficial values things that are the superficial values like we need money, we need clothing, we like we need money, we need clothing, we like we need money, we need clothing, we need shelter, right? We still need those need shelter, right? We still need those need shelter, right? We still need those things, but we also have to prioritize things, but we also have to prioritize things, but we also have to prioritize things that let's say when we have 5 things that let's say when we have 5 things that let's say when we have 5 minutes left on this earth, well, how minutes left on this earth, well, how minutes left on this earth, well, how how would we want to spend that time? how would we want to spend that time? how would we want to spend that time? >> And I often think about my daughter and >> And I often think about my daughter and >> And I often think about my daughter and I think about my family I think about my family I think about my family >> and I think about my faith >> and I think about my faith >> and I think about my faith >> and you know this tiny island Tobago >> and you know this tiny island Tobago >> and you know this tiny island Tobago where my dad was born where my dad was born where my dad was born >> that was so beautiful. I always say like >> that was so beautiful. I always say like >> that was so beautiful. I always say like I need to spend more time there, you I need to spend more time there, you I need to spend more time there, you know. So all of these things that are know. So all of these things that are know. So all of these things that are deep, meaningful, purposeful values that deep, meaningful, purposeful values that deep, meaningful, purposeful values that we just put on the shelf, we need to we just put on the shelf, we need to we just put on the shelf, we need to prioritize those things more. prioritize those things more. prioritize those things more. >> Yeah, I think it's important like you >> Yeah, I think it's important like you >> Yeah, I think it's important like you know, not living through obligations, know, not living through obligations, know, not living through obligations, achievement, people pleasing, like what achievement, people pleasing, like what achievement, people pleasing, like what what actually matters to you and how do what actually matters to you and how do what actually matters to you and how do you focus more on that and on those you focus more on that and on those you focus more on that and on those things and what's the next thing? things and what's the next thing? things and what's the next thing? >> Vitals, which is your expertise, the >> Vitals, which is your expertise, the >> Vitals, which is your expertise, the mind body, the body mind connection, mind body, the body mind connection, mind body, the body mind connection, right? right? right? um thinking about what you eat, what um thinking about what you eat, what um thinking about what you eat, what you're putting into your body, you know, you're putting into your body, you know, you're putting into your body, you know, how much you're moving, how much you're how much you're moving, how much you're how much you're moving, how much you're sleeping. Those are the traditional sleeping. Those are the traditional sleeping. Those are the traditional vitals doctors will tell you about. But vitals doctors will tell you about. But vitals doctors will tell you about. But the non-traditional vital signs are the non-traditional vital signs are the non-traditional vital signs are things like technology, which we've things like technology, which we've things like technology, which we've talked about, our relationship with talked about, our relationship with talked about, our relationship with that, our relationship with our work, that, our relationship with our work, that, our relationship with our work, you know, leaving work at work and you know, leaving work at work and you know, leaving work at work and having a life outside of work. And then having a life outside of work. And then having a life outside of work. And then our relationships with people. You know our relationships with people. You know our relationships with people. You know the research around people in your life the research around people in your life the research around people in your life and having strong solid relationships and having strong solid relationships and having strong solid relationships being the key to a lot of our longevity being the key to a lot of our longevity being the key to a lot of our longevity factors. Having a physically healthy factors. Having a physically healthy factors. Having a physically healthy life depends on who we're around. And life depends on who we're around. And life depends on who we're around. And you know I I joke with my clients when you know I I joke with my clients when you know I I joke with my clients when they're struggling with relationships. I they're struggling with relationships. I they're struggling with relationships. I never tell my clients what to do, right, never tell my clients what to do, right, never tell my clients what to do, right, with with their with their relationships with with their with their relationships with with their with their relationships unless they're in harm, right? unless they're in harm, right? unless they're in harm, right? And I say, you know, you can eat all the And I say, you know, you can eat all the And I say, you know, you can eat all the kale in the world, but that guy is going kale in the world, but that guy is going kale in the world, but that guy is going to be a jerk forever. You know, and he's to be a jerk forever. You know, and he's to be a jerk forever. You know, and he's going to drain your life, right? So, going to drain your life, right? So, going to drain your life, right? So, think about who you're surrounding think about who you're surrounding think about who you're surrounding yourself with. I'm Caribbean. We can't yourself with. I'm Caribbean. We can't yourself with. I'm Caribbean. We can't cut people off. You know, you ain't cut people off. You know, you ain't cut people off. You know, you ain't cutting me off. You know, you stuck with cutting me off. You know, you stuck with cutting me off. You know, you stuck with me, but I could put you at a I could set me, but I could put you at a I could set me, but I could put you at a I could set limits with you. I can say I'm only limits with you. I can say I'm only limits with you. I can say I'm only going to see you twice a year under going to see you twice a year under going to see you twice a year under these circumstances. I'm not going to these circumstances. I'm not going to these circumstances. I'm not going to cut you off. So think about who's cut you off. So think about who's cut you off. So think about who's draining your life and really pour into draining your life and really pour into draining your life and really pour into people who have your back. We take people who have your back. We take people who have your back. We take people for granted. We say, "Oh, that's people for granted. We say, "Oh, that's people for granted. We say, "Oh, that's a good friend. I don't need to call." a good friend. I don't need to call." a good friend. I don't need to call." That is who you should be investing in. That is who you should be investing in. That is who you should be investing in. Many of us are chasing after the friends Many of us are chasing after the friends Many of us are chasing after the friends who don't even like us, who don't even like us, who don't even like us, >> you know, who are jealous of us, >> you know, who are jealous of us, >> you know, who are jealous of us, >> who treat us like, you know, crap, but >> who treat us like, you know, crap, but >> who treat us like, you know, crap, but we're like, "Oh, we well, we we have to we're like, "Oh, we well, we we have to we're like, "Oh, we well, we we have to save that. We're It's like the rubber save that. We're It's like the rubber save that. We're It's like the rubber band effect. We're like running after band effect. We're like running after band effect. We're like running after them and they're pulling away." them and they're pulling away." them and they're pulling away." >> Focus on the ones who are actually >> Focus on the ones who are actually >> Focus on the ones who are actually making your life better. making your life better. making your life better. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Pour into them. >> Pour into them. >> Pour into them. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's important. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's important. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's important. I think the the the cultivation of our I think the the the cultivation of our I think the the the cultivation of our social network is important. And I don't social network is important. And I don't social network is important. And I don't mean uh social media, I mean actually mean uh social media, I mean actually mean uh social media, I mean actually people. And it it requires a deliberate, people. And it it requires a deliberate, people. And it it requires a deliberate, intentional thing to reach out, to go intentional thing to reach out, to go intentional thing to reach out, to go see them, to spend time, to cultivate see them, to spend time, to cultivate see them, to spend time, to cultivate that. It's it's to me one of the most that. It's it's to me one of the most that. It's it's to me one of the most important aspects of my happiness and important aspects of my happiness and important aspects of my happiness and joy at this point in my life. It's is is joy at this point in my life. It's is is joy at this point in my life. It's is is that and and I make it a real priority. that and and I make it a real priority. that and and I make it a real priority. Uh because it's so easy to just kind of Uh because it's so easy to just kind of Uh because it's so easy to just kind of fall into just work, technology, fall into just work, technology, fall into just work, technology, obligations, and not actually take the obligations, and not actually take the obligations, and not actually take the pause. And then you have a fifth V, pause. And then you have a fifth V, pause. And then you have a fifth V, which is vision. which is vision. which is vision. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How do you how do you how do you move >> How do you how do you how do you move >> How do you how do you how do you move forward? How do you have something to forward? How do you have something to forward? How do you have something to look forward to so you don't get stuck look forward to so you don't get stuck look forward to so you don't get stuck in the past? And it's different than in the past? And it's different than in the past? And it's different than goals. It's more about okay, I know the goals. It's more about okay, I know the goals. It's more about okay, I know the signs of my happiness. For me, it's signs of my happiness. For me, it's signs of my happiness. For me, it's connection. connection. connection. >> I know what makes me happy. Um because >> I know what makes me happy. Um because >> I know what makes me happy. Um because during the points in my life when I was during the points in my life when I was during the points in my life when I was the most unhappy, I was the least the most unhappy, I was the least the most unhappy, I was the least connected to people in my life. You connected to people in my life. You connected to people in my life. You know, when during 2020, I was sitting in know, when during 2020, I was sitting in know, when during 2020, I was sitting in my lab and by all means on the outside my lab and by all means on the outside my lab and by all means on the outside of success. You know, I have so many of success. You know, I have so many of success. You know, I have so many degrees I can't even hang them, right? degrees I can't even hang them, right? degrees I can't even hang them, right? Literally, they're under my bed. >> You know how it is. On the outside, >> You know how it is. On the outside, people thought I had it all. uh had people thought I had it all. uh had people thought I had it all. uh had married to a physician, cute little married to a physician, cute little married to a physician, cute little daughter, the businesses, you know, daughter, the businesses, you know, daughter, the businesses, you know, always on TV, but no one knew I was always on TV, but no one knew I was always on TV, but no one knew I was struggling, not even my therapist. Like, struggling, not even my therapist. Like, struggling, not even my therapist. Like, I hid that from my therapist. And I'm a I hid that from my therapist. And I'm a I hid that from my therapist. And I'm a psychiatrist. psychiatrist. psychiatrist. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh, you know, she was really >> And uh, you know, she was really >> And uh, you know, she was really surprised when I was going through my surprised when I was going through my surprised when I was going through my divorce shortly after that. And she was divorce shortly after that. And she was divorce shortly after that. And she was like, "You never really talked about like, "You never really talked about like, "You never really talked about it." it." it." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I said, "Well, I didn't want to >> And I said, "Well, I didn't want to >> And I said, "Well, I didn't want to worry you." Which is like, so, you know, worry you." Which is like, so, you know, worry you." Which is like, so, you know, the people pleasing worry my psychiat. Okay, that's a good one. We went through Okay, that's a good one. We went through EMDR um which is a trauma focused type EMDR um which is a trauma focused type EMDR um which is a trauma focused type of treatment and it just unpacked so of treatment and it just unpacked so of treatment and it just unpacked so much for me and I thought it really much for me and I thought it really much for me and I thought it really think I started really thinking about think I started really thinking about think I started really thinking about the points in my life when I was the the points in my life when I was the the points in my life when I was the most joyful and it was always when I was most joyful and it was always when I was most joyful and it was always when I was around the people that I loved and I was around the people that I loved and I was around the people that I loved and I was connected to them even though I had very connected to them even though I had very connected to them even though I had very little you know my I have three siblings little you know my I have three siblings little you know my I have three siblings and you know we used to play together and you know we used to play together and you know we used to play together and we didn't have toys but we'd make and we didn't have toys but we'd make and we didn't have toys but we'd make toys out of like boxes and so And those toys out of like boxes and so And those toys out of like boxes and so And those were the happiest times for me when I were the happiest times for me when I were the happiest times for me when I was a broke med student, you know, was a broke med student, you know, was a broke med student, you know, hanging out with my uh my medical hanging out with my uh my medical hanging out with my uh my medical student colleagues. That that was joy student colleagues. That that was joy student colleagues. That that was joy for me. But the more successful I got, for me. But the more successful I got, for me. But the more successful I got, the least connected I was to the people the least connected I was to the people the least connected I was to the people that I love the most. So for me, it's that I love the most. So for me, it's that I love the most. So for me, it's really important to plan points of joy really important to plan points of joy really important to plan points of joy where there's a lot of connection. So where there's a lot of connection. So where there's a lot of connection. So whenever we finish a big study in our whenever we finish a big study in our whenever we finish a big study in our lab, we don't just say on to the next, lab, we don't just say on to the next, lab, we don't just say on to the next, right? That used to be the old me, like right? That used to be the old me, like right? That used to be the old me, like we got to get the next study. I got to we got to get the next study. I got to we got to get the next study. I got to get the next one. Right? Um now it's get the next one. Right? Um now it's get the next one. Right? Um now it's about okay let's celebrate you know about okay let's celebrate you know about okay let's celebrate you know let's when are we going to get together let's when are we going to get together let's when are we going to get together for our like n our retreat when are we for our like n our retreat when are we for our like n our retreat when are we going to get together in the lab just to going to get together in the lab just to going to get together in the lab just to like have a little dessert because I'm like have a little dessert because I'm like have a little dessert because I'm celebrating the point of connection not celebrating the point of connection not celebrating the point of connection not the idea of happiness which is the goal the idea of happiness which is the goal the idea of happiness which is the goal >> that oh check the box we did that study >> that oh check the box we did that study >> that oh check the box we did that study and when I prioritize that and I plan it and when I prioritize that and I plan it and when I prioritize that and I plan it and I put it on my schedule and I and I put it on my schedule and I and I put it on my schedule and I protect it I have found that that's when protect it I have found that that's when protect it I have found that that's when I'm the happiest right so plan things in I'm the happiest right so plan things in I'm the happiest right so plan things in your future near future. I have this your future near future. I have this your future near future. I have this practice where every day after I drop my practice where every day after I drop my practice where every day after I drop my daughter to school, I sit in my living daughter to school, I sit in my living daughter to school, I sit in my living room and I drink this cup of coffee and room and I drink this cup of coffee and room and I drink this cup of coffee and I found it I discovered it in St. Martin I found it I discovered it in St. Martin I found it I discovered it in St. Martin and I figured out how to get it here in and I figured out how to get it here in and I figured out how to get it here in the US, but it's like this rum cream the US, but it's like this rum cream the US, but it's like this rum cream flavor. There's no rum in it. There's no flavor. There's no rum in it. There's no flavor. There's no rum in it. There's no alcohol, but it's just so delicious. It alcohol, but it's just so delicious. It alcohol, but it's just so delicious. It literally transports me back to the literally transports me back to the literally transports me back to the Caribbean. And I sit there, everyone Caribbean. And I sit there, everyone Caribbean. And I sit there, everyone knows that's my time, and I just like knows that's my time, and I just like knows that's my time, and I just like savor it and then I go to work. I used savor it and then I go to work. I used savor it and then I go to work. I used to just go straight to work and like, to just go straight to work and like, to just go straight to work and like, okay, let's But I found that when I take okay, let's But I found that when I take okay, let's But I found that when I take these moments to just like intentionally these moments to just like intentionally these moments to just like intentionally relax relax relax that I I actually make better decisions. that I I actually make better decisions. that I I actually make better decisions. I'm less grumpy, you know? I'm I am more I'm less grumpy, you know? I'm I am more I'm less grumpy, you know? I'm I am more successful, more productive. All the successful, more productive. All the successful, more productive. All the things I feared, things I feared, things I feared, >> the fear of running out of resources, >> the fear of running out of resources, >> the fear of running out of resources, all those things, the opposite happened. all those things, the opposite happened. all those things, the opposite happened. The abundance just flowed. So really The abundance just flowed. So really The abundance just flowed. So really understand, you know, what is it that understand, you know, what is it that understand, you know, what is it that brings you true joy and then protect brings you true joy and then protect brings you true joy and then protect that in your schedule and look forward that in your schedule and look forward that in your schedule and look forward to it. to it. to it. >> Yeah, I love that. I think that's >> Yeah, I love that. I think that's >> Yeah, I love that. I think that's important because we schedule all these important because we schedule all these important because we schedule all these other things, but we don't schedule joy other things, but we don't schedule joy other things, but we don't schedule joy >> or time to actually cultivate it or feel >> or time to actually cultivate it or feel >> or time to actually cultivate it or feel it. It's beautiful. it. It's beautiful. it. It's beautiful. >> Or to celebrate the wins. It's always on >> Or to celebrate the wins. It's always on >> Or to celebrate the wins. It's always on to the next, but what's the point of it to the next, but what's the point of it to the next, but what's the point of it if like you're not enjoying it? if like you're not enjoying it? if like you're not enjoying it? >> And a lot a lot of this you talk about >> And a lot a lot of this you talk about >> And a lot a lot of this you talk about in your book, high functioning, in your book, high functioning, in your book, high functioning, overcoming your hidden depression and overcoming your hidden depression and overcoming your hidden depression and reclaiming your joy. I think that's such reclaiming your joy. I think that's such reclaiming your joy. I think that's such an important kind of concept because an important kind of concept because an important kind of concept because it's, you know, most most psychiatric it's, you know, most most psychiatric it's, you know, most most psychiatric kind of focus is on pathology, not on kind of focus is on pathology, not on kind of focus is on pathology, not on well-being. And I I love the kind of well-being. And I I love the kind of well-being. And I I love the kind of flip of that. And I think this was flip of that. And I think this was flip of that. And I think this was what's happening in psychiatry in what's happening in psychiatry in what's happening in psychiatry in general. We're kind of moving into this general. We're kind of moving into this general. We're kind of moving into this really interesting moment where um you really interesting moment where um you really interesting moment where um you know, when I was in college, I read this know, when I was in college, I read this know, when I was in college, I read this book called Madness and Civilization book called Madness and Civilization book called Madness and Civilization >> and it was by this French philosopher >> and it was by this French philosopher >> and it was by this French philosopher that talked about the history of mental that talked about the history of mental that talked about the history of mental illness throughout time and how we have illness throughout time and how we have illness throughout time and how we have different different meanings we different different meanings we different different meanings we attribute to it. it's, you know, it's a, attribute to it. it's, you know, it's a, attribute to it. it's, you know, it's a, you know, possession by, you know, you know, possession by, you know, you know, possession by, you know, demons or it's like imbalance in your demons or it's like imbalance in your demons or it's like imbalance in your humors or it's, you know, Freud and his, humors or it's, you know, Freud and his, humors or it's, you know, Freud and his, you know, you know, you know, edibus complex or whatever like and then edibus complex or whatever like and then edibus complex or whatever like and then it's the chemical imbalance theory and it's the chemical imbalance theory and it's the chemical imbalance theory and then we're kind of kind of moving then we're kind of kind of moving then we're kind of kind of moving through all these attempts to try to through all these attempts to try to through all these attempts to try to explain the human condition. And I think explain the human condition. And I think explain the human condition. And I think now we're kind of entering in a a really now we're kind of entering in a a really now we're kind of entering in a a really interesting moment in psychiatry where interesting moment in psychiatry where interesting moment in psychiatry where we're seeing this convergence of we're seeing this convergence of we're seeing this convergence of metabolic and nutritional psychiatry and metabolic and nutritional psychiatry and metabolic and nutritional psychiatry and functional medicine approaches to mental functional medicine approaches to mental functional medicine approaches to mental health along with psychedelic health along with psychedelic health along with psychedelic psychiatry. Can you kind of talk about psychiatry. Can you kind of talk about psychiatry. Can you kind of talk about where we're going in the future and how where we're going in the future and how where we're going in the future and how these things are going to shape and these things are going to shape and these things are going to shape and change the field of psychiatry? change the field of psychiatry? change the field of psychiatry? >> Well, I'm I'm particularly very excited >> Well, I'm I'm particularly very excited >> Well, I'm I'm particularly very excited about this. You know, I mentioned I grew about this. You know, I mentioned I grew about this. You know, I mentioned I grew up in a church. My dad's a pastor and up in a church. My dad's a pastor and up in a church. My dad's a pastor and psychedelic therapy has a lot of psychedelic therapy has a lot of psychedelic therapy has a lot of elements of spirituality, right? And elements of spirituality, right? And elements of spirituality, right? And years ago whenever we'd have the ground years ago whenever we'd have the ground years ago whenever we'd have the ground rounds of the spirituality person, you rounds of the spirituality person, you rounds of the spirituality person, you know, at the places I trained, it was know, at the places I trained, it was know, at the places I trained, it was always like, "Oh, that's not the always like, "Oh, that's not the always like, "Oh, that's not the important lecture. I want to come back important lecture. I want to come back important lecture. I want to come back for the guy on schizophrenia and the for the guy on schizophrenia and the for the guy on schizophrenia and the brain and like all the imaging stuff." brain and like all the imaging stuff." brain and like all the imaging stuff." But now we're realizing that when you But now we're realizing that when you But now we're realizing that when you look at Gen Z and the younger folks, look at Gen Z and the younger folks, look at Gen Z and the younger folks, they're actually going back to religion they're actually going back to religion they're actually going back to religion and spirituality. So why is that, you and spirituality. So why is that, you and spirituality. So why is that, you know, why is it that they're doing that? know, why is it that they're doing that? know, why is it that they're doing that? Well, we are in an age where the Well, we are in an age where the Well, we are in an age where the machines are taking over and we feel machines are taking over and we feel machines are taking over and we feel this loss of control. All right? The this loss of control. All right? The this loss of control. All right? The jobs are being scooped up. But what are jobs are being scooped up. But what are jobs are being scooped up. But what are the things that are inherently human? the things that are inherently human? the things that are inherently human? Love is human. A machine can't learn Love is human. A machine can't learn Love is human. A machine can't learn love. If you talk to an AI therapist and love. If you talk to an AI therapist and love. If you talk to an AI therapist and they, you know, spit back something to they, you know, spit back something to they, you know, spit back something to you like, "Oh, I get it. I know how you you like, "Oh, I get it. I know how you you like, "Oh, I get it. I know how you feel." Do you do you really know how I feel." Do you do you really know how I feel." Do you do you really know how I feel? Have you ever had a breakup? Have feel? Have you ever had a breakup? Have feel? Have you ever had a breakup? Have you ever had a loss? Right? Right. you ever had a loss? Right? Right. you ever had a loss? Right? Right. >> Has anyone died in your family? Oh, >> Has anyone died in your family? Oh, >> Has anyone died in your family? Oh, forgot you don't have a family. Right. forgot you don't have a family. Right. forgot you don't have a family. Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Um and that's why I >> Um and that's why I >> Um and that's why I >> You're good at faking it. >> You're good at faking it. >> You're good at faking it. >> They're so good at faking it. >> They're so good at faking it. >> They're so good at faking it. >> But you know, they're not human. But the >> But you know, they're not human. But the >> But you know, they're not human. But the things that are human are things like things that are human are things like things that are human are things like love, loss, faith, love, loss, faith, love, loss, faith, >> you know, like spirituality. And I think >> you know, like spirituality. And I think >> you know, like spirituality. And I think we're really rebelling. Some of us are we're really rebelling. Some of us are we're really rebelling. Some of us are rebelling against the machines and we're rebelling against the machines and we're rebelling against the machines and we're trying to feel connected into things trying to feel connected into things trying to feel connected into things that are inherently human art. AI can that are inherently human art. AI can that are inherently human art. AI can replicate art, but what is that replicate art, but what is that replicate art, but what is that inspiration from? That's from a human inspiration from? That's from a human inspiration from? That's from a human experience. So we have to really protect experience. So we have to really protect experience. So we have to really protect things that make us worth being on this things that make us worth being on this things that make us worth being on this planet for allowing us to, you know, planet for allowing us to, you know, planet for allowing us to, you know, survive through evolution and protect survive through evolution and protect survive through evolution and protect what's really human. Psychedelic therapy what's really human. Psychedelic therapy what's really human. Psychedelic therapy is very spiritual. In fact, you know, is very spiritual. In fact, you know, is very spiritual. In fact, you know, you hear these like anecdotal stories of you hear these like anecdotal stories of you hear these like anecdotal stories of people going away but then coming back people going away but then coming back people going away but then coming back and then some of them saying they're and then some of them saying they're and then some of them saying they're cured forever and does happen for some, cured forever and does happen for some, cured forever and does happen for some, but most will say I had to go back and I but most will say I had to go back and I but most will say I had to go back and I had to, you know, continue to get dosed. had to, you know, continue to get dosed. had to, you know, continue to get dosed. Well, the reason that a lot of the Well, the reason that a lot of the Well, the reason that a lot of the treatments aren't sustainable is because treatments aren't sustainable is because treatments aren't sustainable is because there are several elements of there are several elements of there are several elements of psychedelic therapy that involve psychedelic therapy that involve psychedelic therapy that involve spirituality. You you're not just spirituality. You you're not just spirituality. You you're not just getting dosed, you know, in our unit and getting dosed, you know, in our unit and getting dosed, you know, in our unit and our our psychedelic unit. It looks like our our psychedelic unit. It looks like our our psychedelic unit. It looks like an apartment. It doesn't look like a an apartment. It doesn't look like a an apartment. It doesn't look like a lab. We have a lab that looks very lab. We have a lab that looks very lab. We have a lab that looks very sterile and then we have a part of the sterile and then we have a part of the sterile and then we have a part of the um lab that looks very cozy. And you um lab that looks very cozy. And you um lab that looks very cozy. And you know therapists will sit with the know therapists will sit with the know therapists will sit with the individual after dosing and they'll go individual after dosing and they'll go individual after dosing and they'll go through all of these grounding and through all of these grounding and through all of these grounding and mindfulness tools and then they'll have mindfulness tools and then they'll have mindfulness tools and then they'll have integrative sessions after the dosing to integrative sessions after the dosing to integrative sessions after the dosing to build on the principle. So it's not just build on the principle. So it's not just build on the principle. So it's not just about one dose, it's about okay, what about one dose, it's about okay, what about one dose, it's about okay, what have you learned from that session? How have you learned from that session? How have you learned from that session? How do we build on it? How do we continue to do we build on it? How do we continue to do we build on it? How do we continue to change your brain over time? And so a change your brain over time? And so a change your brain over time? And so a lot of the um research and a lot of the lot of the um research and a lot of the lot of the um research and a lot of the future I think in mental health is is future I think in mental health is is future I think in mental health is is leaning towards spirituality and leaning towards spirituality and leaning towards spirituality and incorporating. different than religion. incorporating. different than religion. incorporating. different than religion. >> Very different. Religion is mostly, you >> Very different. Religion is mostly, you >> Very different. Religion is mostly, you know, having to do with rules and um, know, having to do with rules and um, know, having to do with rules and um, you know, dos and don'ts and, you know, you know, dos and don'ts and, you know, you know, dos and don'ts and, you know, social constructs. Spirituality is social constructs. Spirituality is social constructs. Spirituality is different. You don't have to believe in different. You don't have to believe in different. You don't have to believe in a deity to be spiritual. You could be a deity to be spiritual. You could be a deity to be spiritual. You could be feel connected to a greater thing like feel connected to a greater thing like feel connected to a greater thing like nature. Um, you feel a sense of awe. You nature. Um, you feel a sense of awe. You nature. Um, you feel a sense of awe. You don't necessarily have to be religious. don't necessarily have to be religious. don't necessarily have to be religious. So, I think that's where we're moving. So, I think that's where we're moving. So, I think that's where we're moving. And we're actually doing a study in our And we're actually doing a study in our And we're actually doing a study in our lab. One of our sub investigators, Dr. lab. One of our sub investigators, Dr. lab. One of our sub investigators, Dr. Deepa Valleti um is heavily in the into Deepa Valleti um is heavily in the into Deepa Valleti um is heavily in the into the spirituality world and we're looking the spirituality world and we're looking the spirituality world and we're looking at Gen Z and whether or not at Gen Z and whether or not at Gen Z and whether or not >> uh people in the Gen Z group are happier >> uh people in the Gen Z group are happier >> uh people in the Gen Z group are happier being spiritual versus religious. So being spiritual versus religious. So being spiritual versus religious. So we're we're we're really excited about we're we're we're really excited about we're we're we're really excited about that. I don't know how it's going to that. I don't know how it's going to that. I don't know how it's going to turn out, but we'll see. turn out, but we'll see. turn out, but we'll see. >> Well, it's really a sense of meaning, >> Well, it's really a sense of meaning, >> Well, it's really a sense of meaning, right? It's like, you know, I talk about right? It's like, you know, I talk about right? It's like, you know, I talk about the ingredients for health and and one the ingredients for health and and one the ingredients for health and and one of them is meaning and purpose and how of them is meaning and purpose and how of them is meaning and purpose and how we find those, how we achieve those, how we find those, how we achieve those, how we find those, how we achieve those, how we think about them is really important. we think about them is really important. we think about them is really important. And I think you know a lot of it you And I think you know a lot of it you And I think you know a lot of it you know has traditionally been through know has traditionally been through know has traditionally been through religion which is an attempt to codify religion which is an attempt to codify religion which is an attempt to codify spirituality but spirituality like you spirituality but spirituality like you spirituality but spirituality like you said is separate from religion and from said is separate from religion and from said is separate from religion and from dogma and it's really our sense of dogma and it's really our sense of dogma and it's really our sense of connection to something greater or connection to something greater or connection to something greater or something meaningful or something that something meaningful or something that something meaningful or something that gives us purpose or belonging. And I gives us purpose or belonging. And I gives us purpose or belonging. And I think that's that's what we're all think that's that's what we're all think that's that's what we're all craving. So I I kind of love this craving. So I I kind of love this craving. So I I kind of love this reframe. I love the fact that you're reframe. I love the fact that you're reframe. I love the fact that you're talking about joy as a state that we talking about joy as a state that we talking about joy as a state that we should be cultivating. And if we don't should be cultivating. And if we don't should be cultivating. And if we don't feel that or we don't have it, it's feel that or we don't have it, it's feel that or we don't have it, it's something we should pay attention to. something we should pay attention to. something we should pay attention to. And I think people can learn more about And I think people can learn more about And I think people can learn more about all this by reading your book, High all this by reading your book, High all this by reading your book, High Functioning, and uh following you on Functioning, and uh following you on Functioning, and uh following you on your your social and your website's Dr. your your social and your website's Dr. your your social and your website's Dr. Judith or Judith Joseph.com, right? Judith or Judith Joseph.com, right? Judith or Judith Joseph.com, right? >> Dr. Judith Joseph.com. Yes. >> Dr. Judith Joseph.com. Yes. >> Dr. Judith Joseph.com. Yes. >> And also you have, you know, so much >> And also you have, you know, so much >> And also you have, you know, so much online, so many resources, and I think online, so many resources, and I think online, so many resources, and I think people can kind of kind of dive in and people can kind of kind of dive in and people can kind of kind of dive in and actually see what's what's happening for actually see what's what's happening for actually see what's what's happening for you. And um you've got the website for you. And um you've got the website for you. And um you've got the website for the book is the book is the book is >> high functioningbook.com but you can >> high functioningbook.com but you can >> high functioningbook.com but you can find it on my website find it on my website find it on my website drjudithjoseph.com. drjudithjoseph.com. drjudithjoseph.com. >> Great. Well, thank you for your work. >> Great. Well, thank you for your work. >> Great. Well, thank you for your work. Thanks for pioneering a whole new frame. Thanks for pioneering a whole new frame. Thanks for pioneering a whole new frame. And thank you for the joy you brought And thank you for the joy you brought And thank you for the joy you brought into my podcast. It's really great. I into my podcast. It's really great. I into my podcast. It's really great. I can feel it. And uh it's good to see you can feel it. And uh it's good to see you can feel it. And uh it's good to see you again. And thanks for just kind of being again. And thanks for just kind of being again. And thanks for just kind of being a voice for something that's um you know a voice for something that's um you know a voice for something that's um you know being unspoken our society and and how being unspoken our society and and how being unspoken our society and and how to navigate through that for us. And to navigate through that for us. And to navigate through that for us. And sure for me I I had a when I was kind of sure for me I I had a when I was kind of sure for me I I had a when I was kind of prepping for this podcast like oh god I prepping for this podcast like oh god I prepping for this podcast like oh god I I kind of think I'm one of those guys I kind of think I'm one of those guys I kind of think I'm one of those guys who has experienced that and I think uh who has experienced that and I think uh who has experienced that and I think uh it was very helpful for me to understand it was very helpful for me to understand it was very helpful for me to understand your framework. So thank you. your framework. So thank you. your framework. So thank you. >> Thank you and for your work. Uh my >> Thank you and for your work. Uh my >> Thank you and for your work. Uh my patients benefit from your work and patients benefit from your work and patients benefit from your work and thank you for your vulnerability. I thank you for your vulnerability. I thank you for your vulnerability. I think that's what most impressed me when think that's what most impressed me when think that's what most impressed me when I met you was your vulnerability. A lot I met you was your vulnerability. A lot I met you was your vulnerability. A lot of men are not vulnerable of men are not vulnerable of men are not vulnerable >> and I I truly believe that if they were >> and I I truly believe that if they were >> and I I truly believe that if they were and they opened up and they prioritized and they opened up and they prioritized and they opened up and they prioritized their joy, their joy, their joy, >> the world would be better. The research >> the world would be better. The research >> the world would be better. The research shows that joyful people are like shows that joyful people are like shows that joyful people are like physically healthy, physically healthy, physically healthy, >> they have better relationships, but they >> they have better relationships, but they >> they have better relationships, but they also are more likely to help the world also are more likely to help the world also are more likely to help the world and make the world a better place. So and make the world a better place. So and make the world a better place. So imagine if every man focused on their imagine if every man focused on their imagine if every man focused on their joy and you know were vulnerable and joy and you know were vulnerable and joy and you know were vulnerable and reflective like reflective like reflective like >> Well, I think I think that's the mistake >> Well, I think I think that's the mistake >> Well, I think I think that's the mistake people make, especially men, is that people make, especially men, is that people make, especially men, is that they associate vulnerability with they associate vulnerability with they associate vulnerability with weakness, not strength. But it's the weakness, not strength. But it's the weakness, not strength. But it's the opposite, actually. opposite, actually. opposite, actually. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Well, thank you for having >> All right. Well, thank you for having >> All right. Well, thank you for having me. me. me. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> If you love that last video, you're >> If you love that last video, you're >> If you love that last video, you're going to love the next one. Check it out going to love the next one. Check it out going to love the next one. Check it out here.