Inside the New Media Team with Marc Andreessen & Ben Horowitz

Today's going to be a fun one. We're Today's going to be a fun one. We're going to dive into all things new media. going to dive into all things new media. going to dive into all things new media. What is new media? What the new media What is new media? What the new media What is new media? What the new media team is doing here at 816Z, what we're team is doing here at 816Z, what we're team is doing here at 816Z, what we're focused on, and where we're going in focused on, and where we're going in focused on, and where we're going in 2026. Really stoked to be making this 2026. Really stoked to be making this 2026. Really stoked to be making this happen. Ben, you had this quote which I think Ben, you had this quote which I think summarizes some of the some of the one summarizes some of the some of the one summarizes some of the some of the one of the main principles of of new media. of the main principles of of new media. of the main principles of of new media. I just want to, you know, read a small I just want to, you know, read a small I just want to, you know, read a small small part of it and then have you small part of it and then have you small part of it and then have you elaborate. Uh, old media is elaborate. Uh, old media is elaborate. Uh, old media is defenseoriented. In in new media, defenseoriented. In in new media, defenseoriented. In in new media, offense is always better than defense. offense is always better than defense. offense is always better than defense. We've spent many years fretting about We've spent many years fretting about We've spent many years fretting about our results being leaked. Old media our results being leaked. Old media our results being leaked. Old media tries to please every audience. Old tries to please every audience. Old tries to please every audience. Old media is terrified of upsetting people. media is terrified of upsetting people. media is terrified of upsetting people. And new media only cares about being And new media only cares about being And new media only cares about being interesting. When in doubt, flood the interesting. When in doubt, flood the interesting. When in doubt, flood the zone. zone. zone. >> Yeah. Yep. That sounds like something I >> Yeah. Yep. That sounds like something I >> Yeah. Yep. That sounds like something I said. said. said. >> Why don't you share some of the tenants >> Why don't you share some of the tenants >> Why don't you share some of the tenants behind that idea and h how you came to behind that idea and h how you came to behind that idea and h how you came to it? it? it? >> Yeah. So actually it's interesting. Um >> Yeah. So actually it's interesting. Um >> Yeah. So actually it's interesting. Um it it's a really weird adjustment going it it's a really weird adjustment going it it's a really weird adjustment going from you know I mean I spent my whole from you know I mean I spent my whole from you know I mean I spent my whole career in old media or dealing with old career in old media or dealing with old career in old media or dealing with old media and now we're in new media. You media and now we're in new media. You media and now we're in new media. You know kind in the history of the firm know kind in the history of the firm know kind in the history of the firm we've been the the one thing that we we've been the the one thing that we we've been the the one thing that we really really really really defended really really really really defended really really really really defended against was basically leaked results. against was basically leaked results. against was basically leaked results. And uh the reason and it goes back to in And uh the reason and it goes back to in And uh the reason and it goes back to in the pretty early days of the firm uh the the pretty early days of the firm uh the the pretty early days of the firm uh the New York Times New York Times New York Times got a leak of our results and they they got a leak of our results and they they got a leak of our results and they they were very early. I mean we were like a were very early. I mean we were like a were very early. I mean we were like a young firm so most of the funds were young firm so most of the funds were young firm so most of the funds were like a year old. Um and you know venture like a year old. Um and you know venture like a year old. Um and you know venture capital firms don't have high returns in capital firms don't have high returns in capital firms don't have high returns in the first year because like nothing the first year because like nothing the first year because like nothing happens in the first year. It's not like happens in the first year. It's not like happens in the first year. It's not like a stock market type thing. a stock market type thing. a stock market type thing. And so, you know, the they mis or maybe And so, you know, the they mis or maybe And so, you know, the they mis or maybe it's the Wall Street Journal, one of the it's the Wall Street Journal, one of the it's the Wall Street Journal, one of the two, but they misinterpreted the two, but they misinterpreted the two, but they misinterpreted the results. Um, you know, so they kind of results. Um, you know, so they kind of results. Um, you know, so they kind of said, well, the early funds were good said, well, the early funds were good said, well, the early funds were good because those had enough years to get because those had enough years to get because those had enough years to get kind of returns in them, but like fund kind of returns in them, but like fund kind of returns in them, but like fund three was terrible and like D and so three was terrible and like D and so three was terrible and like D and so forth. And there was no um, you know, forth. And there was no um, you know, forth. And there was no um, you know, because old media was still powerful, it because old media was still powerful, it because old media was still powerful, it was very hard to combat it. you know, we was very hard to combat it. you know, we was very hard to combat it. you know, we put out statements and this and that and put out statements and this and that and put out statements and this and that and the other and blog posts but explaining the other and blog posts but explaining the other and blog posts but explaining like why they were wrong. Um, but it like why they were wrong. Um, but it like why they were wrong. Um, but it didn't land and it was such a like a didn't land and it was such a like a didn't land and it was such a like a inside the firm it was such a big crisis inside the firm it was such a big crisis inside the firm it was such a big crisis that actually I'm pretty sure Bology that actually I'm pretty sure Bology that actually I'm pretty sure Bology quit because he thought we were dead quit because he thought we were dead quit because he thought we were dead because the New York Times had just like because the New York Times had just like because the New York Times had just like ruined the whole firm with that uh ruined the whole firm with that uh ruined the whole firm with that uh article. Um, so it was like that kind of article. Um, so it was like that kind of article. Um, so it was like that kind of existential threat. And so, you know, we existential threat. And so, you know, we existential threat. And so, you know, we were very oriented around like, okay, were very oriented around like, okay, were very oriented around like, okay, don't let anything out that could be don't let anything out that could be don't let anything out that could be misinterpreted or this or that because misinterpreted or this or that because misinterpreted or this or that because you can never correct it. It goes out you can never correct it. It goes out you can never correct it. It goes out there and you're never going to kind of there and you're never going to kind of there and you're never going to kind of come back from it. come back from it. come back from it. >> And and and say more about the the flood >> And and and say more about the the flood >> And and and say more about the the flood the zone concept in terms of of of why the zone concept in terms of of of why the zone concept in terms of of of why it works or or you know why and and why it works or or you know why and and why it works or or you know why and and why it's so different than uh than you know it's so different than uh than you know it's so different than uh than you know what would happen in the past. what would happen in the past. what would happen in the past. >> Yeah. Well, so in the past the >> Yeah. Well, so in the past the >> Yeah. Well, so in the past the traditionally it didn't count if it traditionally it didn't count if it traditionally it didn't count if it wasn't in the Wall Street Journal or the wasn't in the Wall Street Journal or the wasn't in the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or like the Economist or New York Times or like the Economist or New York Times or like the Economist or CNN or like there were maybe eight CNN or like there were maybe eight CNN or like there were maybe eight channels that could say something and channels that could say something and channels that could say something and then whatever they said was permanent in then whatever they said was permanent in then whatever they said was permanent in that like once it was out there it was that like once it was out there it was that like once it was out there it was very hard to deal with and it would be very hard to deal with and it would be very hard to deal with and it would be top of Google results like the whole top of Google results like the whole top of Google results like the whole thing. Um thing. Um thing. Um but now but now but now you know look we can go on Mark and I if you know look we can go on Mark and I if you know look we can go on Mark and I if we really had a problem could go on 30 we really had a problem could go on 30 we really had a problem could go on 30 podcast uh all of which get a much podcast uh all of which get a much podcast uh all of which get a much bigger audience than any of the bigger audience than any of the bigger audience than any of the publications I talked about um and just publications I talked about um and just publications I talked about um and just basically basically basically and we wouldn't have to talk about that. and we wouldn't have to talk about that. and we wouldn't have to talk about that. We could go talk about something else We could go talk about something else We could go talk about something else more interesting um and erase that from more interesting um and erase that from more interesting um and erase that from everybody's memory very quickly. So it's everybody's memory very quickly. So it's everybody's memory very quickly. So it's just you you know without commenting on just you you know without commenting on just you you know without commenting on what's a better world like the laws of what's a better world like the laws of what's a better world like the laws of physics are completely different in this physics are completely different in this physics are completely different in this world than the other world and I think world than the other world and I think world than the other world and I think to be effective uh as a organization in to be effective uh as a organization in to be effective uh as a organization in marketing and media you have to like you marketing and media you have to like you marketing and media you have to like you you have to embrace the new world you have to embrace the new world you have to embrace the new world because you can't be half and half the because you can't be half and half the because you can't be half and half the because the whole motion of the old because the whole motion of the old because the whole motion of the old world will kill you in the new world and world will kill you in the new world and world will kill you in the new world and vice versa. versa. And so you have to vice versa. versa. And so you have to vice versa. versa. And so you have to kind of commit to we're going to really kind of commit to we're going to really kind of commit to we're going to really care about what goes down through the care about what goes down through the care about what goes down through the old channels or we're not going to give old channels or we're not going to give old channels or we're not going to give them f um sorry to use language and them f um sorry to use language and them f um sorry to use language and we're just going to you know say we're just going to you know say we're just going to you know say interesting things and flood the zone interesting things and flood the zone interesting things and flood the zone and uh we're doing the latter by the and uh we're doing the latter by the and uh we're doing the latter by the way. There's a whole uh history to this, way. There's a whole uh history to this, way. There's a whole uh history to this, but ba but basically like the the the but ba but basically like the the the but ba but basically like the the the whole idea that there's like a whole idea that there's like a whole idea that there's like a quoteunquote corporate brand like the quoteunquote corporate brand like the quoteunquote corporate brand like the whole idea that there's like a corporate whole idea that there's like a corporate whole idea that there's like a corporate like trademark and then the whole idea like trademark and then the whole idea like trademark and then the whole idea that that you like as a business you that that you like as a business you that that you like as a business you basically load everything into that into basically load everything into that into basically load everything into that into that into that thing and that that thing that into that thing and that that thing that into that thing and that that thing you know whether it's General Electric you know whether it's General Electric you know whether it's General Electric or International Business Machines or or International Business Machines or or International Business Machines or whatever that you know the idea that whatever that you know the idea that whatever that you know the idea that that thing is somehow abstracted away that thing is somehow abstracted away that thing is somehow abstracted away from the people involved um and then from the people involved um and then from the people involved um and then that the people involved you know their that the people involved you know their that the people involved you know their main job is to try to kind of buff that main job is to try to kind of buff that main job is to try to kind of buff that thing which kind of you know led to this thing which kind of you know led to this thing which kind of you know led to this you know you know One way to look at it you know you know One way to look at it you know you know One way to look at it is like it led to this like 80-year kind is like it led to this like 80-year kind is like it led to this like 80-year kind of reign of like everything being of reign of like everything being of reign of like everything being synthetic and plastic and boring, right? synthetic and plastic and boring, right? synthetic and plastic and boring, right? Where like the you know we we Ben and I Where like the you know we we Ben and I Where like the you know we we Ben and I have had this experience for many many have had this experience for many many have had this experience for many many decades at this point um is just like decades at this point um is just like decades at this point um is just like you know the the the job of a corporate you know the the the job of a corporate you know the the the job of a corporate CEO for a very long time was to get up CEO for a very long time was to get up CEO for a very long time was to get up on stage and just say absolutely nothing on stage and just say absolutely nothing on stage and just say absolutely nothing in any sort of public public event. Um I in any sort of public public event. Um I in any sort of public public event. Um I actually was on a board of the CEO who actually was on a board of the CEO who actually was on a board of the CEO who very firmly believed this. Um and uh he very firmly believed this. Um and uh he very firmly believed this. Um and uh he he literally would come off stage having he literally would come off stage having he literally would come off stage having having very deliberately said absolutely having very deliberately said absolutely having very deliberately said absolutely nothing and would have been thrilled. Um nothing and would have been thrilled. Um nothing and would have been thrilled. Um because like he he had made no news and because like he he had made no news and because like he he had made no news and like mission accomplished, right? And like mission accomplished, right? And like mission accomplished, right? And anyway, so Eric to your question like anyway, so Eric to your question like anyway, so Eric to your question like basically I think the retrospective view basically I think the retrospective view basically I think the retrospective view on this what happened was basically in on this what happened was basically in on this what happened was basically in the past communication channels were the past communication channels were the past communication channels were just like super narrow, right? And so just like super narrow, right? And so just like super narrow, right? And so and so how could you get a message and so how could you get a message and so how could you get a message through to the mass market or to your through to the mass market or to your through to the mass market or to your audience to your customer base? Um you audience to your customer base? Um you audience to your customer base? Um you you could only do it by kind of sending you could only do it by kind of sending you could only do it by kind of sending in a message that was encoded into as in a message that was encoded into as in a message that was encoded into as few bits as possible, right? because few bits as possible, right? because few bits as possible, right? because that was kind of your only shot because that was kind of your only shot because that was kind of your only shot because it was always limited by, you know, TV it was always limited by, you know, TV it was always limited by, you know, TV broadcast air time or it was limited by broadcast air time or it was limited by broadcast air time or it was limited by newspaper column inches or whatever. And newspaper column inches or whatever. And newspaper column inches or whatever. And so you just you had to kind of so you just you had to kind of so you just you had to kind of crystallize everything down to this kind crystallize everything down to this kind crystallize everything down to this kind of min minimal and sort of least of min minimal and sort of least of min minimal and sort of least offensive, you know, kind of possible offensive, you know, kind of possible offensive, you know, kind of possible position. But but it's always been position. But but it's always been position. But but it's always been unnatural because as human beings like unnatural because as human beings like unnatural because as human beings like that it does like it it never felt right that it does like it it never felt right that it does like it it never felt right like you know it always felt like weird like you know it always felt like weird like you know it always felt like weird because it's like this you know because it's like this you know because it's like this you know corporation is like this weird other corporation is like this weird other corporation is like this weird other kind of alien thing. you know, it it kind of alien thing. you know, it it kind of alien thing. you know, it it always felt weird and uncomfortable and always felt weird and uncomfortable and always felt weird and uncomfortable and we and we just kind of got used to it we and we just kind of got used to it we and we just kind of got used to it and it just you know, it turns out as as and it just you know, it turns out as as and it just you know, it turns out as as as our friend Mitt Romney famously said, as our friend Mitt Romney famously said, as our friend Mitt Romney famously said, corporations are people too. Um and corporations are people too. Um and corporations are people too. Um and right and like right and like right and like >> poor poor, >> poor poor, >> poor poor, >> right? Yeah. He was using it in a >> right? Yeah. He was using it in a >> right? Yeah. He was using it in a different context. uh he he was not he different context. uh he he was not he different context. uh he he was not he was not calling the change in PR but um was not calling the change in PR but um was not calling the change in PR but um but uh you know for our purposes um you but uh you know for our purposes um you but uh you know for our purposes um you know like this is it's all about people know like this is it's all about people know like this is it's all about people like it's all about the decisions that like it's all about the decisions that like it's all about the decisions that people make like you know when when a people make like you know when when a people make like you know when when a big company or a government agency or a big company or a government agency or a big company or a government agency or a nonprofit or a venture firm or a startup nonprofit or a venture firm or a startup nonprofit or a venture firm or a startup is like making decisions and acting in is like making decisions and acting in is like making decisions and acting in the world that's people like that you the world that's people like that you the world that's people like that you know there's there there's there you know there's there there's there you know there's there there's there you know there there are some set of people know there there are some set of people know there there are some set of people um who are sitting around making that um who are sitting around making that um who are sitting around making that decision and I and I just think like and decision and I and I just think like and decision and I and I just think like and and then it's kind of you know it's kind and then it's kind of you know it's kind and then it's kind of you know it's kind of this almost I don't know like shock of this almost I don't know like shock of this almost I don't know like shock therapy or thing where it's just like if therapy or thing where it's just like if therapy or thing where it's just like if the people who are actually making the the people who are actually making the the people who are actually making the calls actually like show up and talk on calls actually like show up and talk on calls actually like show up and talk on their own behalf and explain themselves their own behalf and explain themselves their own behalf and explain themselves and actually say what they think, it and actually say what they think, it and actually say what they think, it like blows everybody's minds, right? like blows everybody's minds, right? like blows everybody's minds, right? It's just it's just, you know, it's the, It's just it's just, you know, it's the, It's just it's just, you know, it's the, you know, it's the response people have you know, it's the response people have you know, it's the response people have to, you know, Elon. It's a response to, you know, Elon. It's a response to, you know, Elon. It's a response people have to, you know, certain other, people have to, you know, certain other, people have to, you know, certain other, you know, people who are now, you know, you know, people who are now, you know, you know, people who are now, you know, kind of very notable in environment who kind of very notable in environment who kind of very notable in environment who are running large large things who are are running large large things who are are running large large things who are very public and vocal. It's just kind of very public and vocal. It's just kind of very public and vocal. It's just kind of this thing of like and it's just it's this thing of like and it's just it's this thing of like and it's just it's almost like this thing where it's like, almost like this thing where it's like, almost like this thing where it's like, well, you know, they can't say that. And well, you know, they can't say that. And well, you know, they can't say that. And it's like, well, wait a minute. Number it's like, well, wait a minute. Number it's like, well, wait a minute. Number one, they can say that like, you know, one, they can say that like, you know, one, they can say that like, you know, they're allowed to they're like an adult they're allowed to they're like an adult they're allowed to they're like an adult in the United States of America. like in the United States of America. like in the United States of America. like they're allowed to say, you know, they're allowed to say, you know, they're allowed to say, you know, whatever they want. Number one. Number whatever they want. Number one. Number whatever they want. Number one. Number two, like how about they actually tell two, like how about they actually tell two, like how about they actually tell us what they think? Like how about we us what they think? Like how about we us what they think? Like how about we hear directly from them so that we can hear directly from them so that we can hear directly from them so that we can actually understand what they're actually understand what they're actually understand what they're thinking and who they are, you know, and thinking and who they are, you know, and thinking and who they are, you know, and how they're processing reality and what how they're processing reality and what how they're processing reality and what what their assumptions are. Um and and what their assumptions are. Um and and what their assumptions are. Um and and of course the the technological cause of course the the technological cause of course the the technological cause for this is just that, you know, that for this is just that, you know, that for this is just that, you know, that that narrow media funnel just got like that narrow media funnel just got like that narrow media funnel just got like completely blown to smitherines, right? completely blown to smitherines, right? completely blown to smitherines, right? In large part as a consequence of all In large part as a consequence of all In large part as a consequence of all the work that, you know, that we that the work that, you know, that we that the work that, you know, that we that you know, all of us have done uh on this you know, all of us have done uh on this you know, all of us have done uh on this call over the last 30 years. And so like call over the last 30 years. And so like call over the last 30 years. And so like it it's just, you know, and you could it it's just, you know, and you could it it's just, you know, and you could kind of maybe say, you know, love it or kind of maybe say, you know, love it or kind of maybe say, you know, love it or hate it, like the the the the the days hate it, like the the the the the days hate it, like the the the the the days of kind of this narrow channel, narrow of kind of this narrow channel, narrow of kind of this narrow channel, narrow casting, and then what I would argue is casting, and then what I would argue is casting, and then what I would argue is just this like inherently deceptive just this like inherently deceptive just this like inherently deceptive practice um of abstracting things away practice um of abstracting things away practice um of abstracting things away from people, I you know, that that world from people, I you know, that that world from people, I you know, that that world is just clearly fading. Um and and in is just clearly fading. Um and and in is just clearly fading. Um and and in the new world, we're just going to hear the new world, we're just going to hear the new world, we're just going to hear direct from people. And I, you know, and direct from people. And I, you know, and direct from people. And I, you know, and look, I'm not a utopian and it's not look, I'm not a utopian and it's not look, I'm not a utopian and it's not going to be like 100% better, but I I going to be like 100% better, but I I going to be like 100% better, but I I think there's no question it's a big net think there's no question it's a big net think there's no question it's a big net improvement. improvement. improvement. >> Yeah. And by the way, you know, the >> Yeah. And by the way, you know, the >> Yeah. And by the way, you know, the other um thing that's really interesting other um thing that's really interesting other um thing that's really interesting in retrospect is in retrospect is in retrospect is the things that people got in trouble the things that people got in trouble the things that people got in trouble for, uh, cancelled for, fired for, etc. for, uh, cancelled for, fired for, etc. for, uh, cancelled for, fired for, etc. in the past that they said in the press in the past that they said in the press in the past that they said in the press were were were all just misinterpretations. all just misinterpretations. all just misinterpretations. So they, you know, was somebody saying So they, you know, was somebody saying So they, you know, was somebody saying something and because it was so narrow something and because it was so narrow something and because it was so narrow and because you could never erase it and and because you could never erase it and and because you could never erase it and because you could never come back and because you could never come back and because you could never come back and defend it because the audience would be, defend it because the audience would be, defend it because the audience would be, you know, a thousandth of the size on you know, a thousandth of the size on you know, a thousandth of the size on the defense, the defense, the defense, you know, people just it was all it you know, people just it was all it you know, people just it was all it wasn't I said what I thought and people wasn't I said what I thought and people wasn't I said what I thought and people thought I was a horrible person. It was thought I was a horrible person. It was thought I was a horrible person. It was I said something, it got misinterpreted I said something, it got misinterpreted I said something, it got misinterpreted and people thought I was a horrible and people thought I was a horrible and people thought I was a horrible person. So now in this world where like person. So now in this world where like person. So now in this world where like you know people say much more like you know people say much more like you know people say much more like aggressive things I would just say in aggressive things I would just say in aggressive things I would just say in terms of you know not being mainstream terms of you know not being mainstream terms of you know not being mainstream thinking but have room to explain it um thinking but have room to explain it um thinking but have room to explain it um they that that rarely happens anymore. they that that rarely happens anymore. they that that rarely happens anymore. So like I mean everything from like So like I mean everything from like So like I mean everything from like Howard Dean to you know you name it like Howard Dean to you know you name it like Howard Dean to you know you name it like in today's world that that would be in today's world that that would be in today's world that that would be nothing. Um but in that world because nothing. Um but in that world because nothing. Um but in that world because there was no chance to say well like there was no chance to say well like there was no chance to say well like this is what happened. Um this is what happened. Um this is what happened. Um you know you know you know like there there were just thousands of like there there were just thousands of like there there were just thousands of times when people got into incredible times when people got into incredible times when people got into incredible trouble for things that they said that trouble for things that they said that trouble for things that they said that were misinterpreted uh that they could were misinterpreted uh that they could were misinterpreted uh that they could not correct. not correct. not correct. >> Yeah. And and Eric, you know, Ben Ben >> Yeah. And and Eric, you know, Ben Ben >> Yeah. And and Eric, you know, Ben Ben gave me good advice, you know, actually gave me good advice, you know, actually gave me good advice, you know, actually before you came on board, which I am before you came on board, which I am before you came on board, which I am trying my best to stick to, although I trying my best to stick to, although I trying my best to stick to, although I will tell you it is a significant will tell you it is a significant will tell you it is a significant personal challenge. personal challenge. personal challenge. >> Yeah. um akin with not eating an entire >> Yeah. um akin with not eating an entire >> Yeah. um akin with not eating an entire box of Oreos and drink an entire bottle box of Oreos and drink an entire bottle box of Oreos and drink an entire bottle of scotch every night, both of which I'm of scotch every night, both of which I'm of scotch every night, both of which I'm also trying not to do. also trying not to do. also trying not to do. >> Um so because we live in a healthy world >> Um so because we live in a healthy world >> Um so because we live in a healthy world now, so um uh less self-destructive now, so um uh less self-destructive now, so um uh less self-destructive world. So um you know, Ben Ben pointed world. So um you know, Ben Ben pointed world. So um you know, Ben Ben pointed out that like this what Ben just said out that like this what Ben just said out that like this what Ben just said basically applies into the new world basically applies into the new world basically applies into the new world actually just as much as the old world actually just as much as the old world actually just as much as the old world in the sense of like when every time in the sense of like when every time in the sense of like when every time I've gotten myself into like serious I've gotten myself into like serious I've gotten myself into like serious trouble like in public over the last trouble like in public over the last trouble like in public over the last decade, it's because I tweeted decade, it's because I tweeted decade, it's because I tweeted something. Um, and I mean, you know, something. Um, and I mean, you know, something. Um, and I mean, you know, everybody on here probably knows how everybody on here probably knows how everybody on here probably knows how much I love Twitter and like it's great much I love Twitter and like it's great much I love Twitter and like it's great to be able to rip off the 100, you know, to be able to rip off the 100, you know, to be able to rip off the 100, you know, and I was really good at like and I was really good at like and I was really good at like compressing something super compressing something super compressing something super controversial in 140 characters and then controversial in 140 characters and then controversial in 140 characters and then really letting it rip at 280 characters, really letting it rip at 280 characters, really letting it rip at 280 characters, but Ben pointed out like, look, every but Ben pointed out like, look, every but Ben pointed out like, look, every time every time somebody gets mad at time every time somebody gets mad at time every time somebody gets mad at you, you know, every just gets like you, you know, every just gets like you, you know, every just gets like completely ripped at you over over that. completely ripped at you over over that. completely ripped at you over over that. Basically, what's happened is it's out Basically, what's happened is it's out Basically, what's happened is it's out of context. Um, and so what Ben said is of context. Um, and so what Ben said is of context. Um, and so what Ben said is look, just say everything that you look, just say everything that you look, just say everything that you think, but say it on a podcast, right? think, but say it on a podcast, right? think, but say it on a podcast, right? Say it in the context of an hour and a Say it in the context of an hour and a Say it in the context of an hour and a half discussion so that you can whatever half discussion so that you can whatever half discussion so that you can whatever it is, you've surrounded it with the it is, you've surrounded it with the it is, you've surrounded it with the full explanation or say it in the form full explanation or say it in the form full explanation or say it in the form of an essay where you've like fully of an essay where you've like fully of an essay where you've like fully articulated your argument and and it's articulated your argument and and it's articulated your argument and and it's fully in context. Um and and just fully in context. Um and and just fully in context. Um and and just observationally like and and not just observationally like and and not just observationally like and and not just applying to myself, but just more applying to myself, but just more applying to myself, but just more broadly. It's actually interesting if broadly. It's actually interesting if broadly. It's actually interesting if you watch this to this day when public you watch this to this day when public you watch this to this day when public figures get blown to smitherines, it's figures get blown to smitherines, it's figures get blown to smitherines, it's almost always because of something almost always because of something almost always because of something that's basically too short. um uh when that's basically too short. um uh when that's basically too short. um uh when people actually do the full long long people actually do the full long long people actually do the full long long form explanation of what they think even form explanation of what they think even form explanation of what they think even if it's on a highly controver you know if it's on a highly controver you know if it's on a highly controver you know even if it's imputed to be highly even if it's imputed to be highly even if it's imputed to be highly controversial or whatever if it's the controversial or whatever if it's the controversial or whatever if it's the full explanation it is actually harder full explanation it is actually harder full explanation it is actually harder to blow people up and and again you to blow people up and and again you to blow people up and and again you could kind of it's actually really funny could kind of it's actually really funny could kind of it's actually really funny you know when I was a kid like you know you know when I was a kid like you know you know when I was a kid like you know the moral panic was around television the moral panic was around television the moral panic was around television right kind of pre the internet and the right kind of pre the internet and the right kind of pre the internet and the moral panic in television always was moral panic in television always was moral panic in television always was around the concept of sound bites which around the concept of sound bites which around the concept of sound bites which is you only ever get to hear like 5 is you only ever get to hear like 5 is you only ever get to hear like 5 seconds of what anybody's thoughts are seconds of what anybody's thoughts are seconds of what anybody's thoughts are right and somehow television is now the right and somehow television is now the right and somehow television is now the gold standard you know for information gold standard you know for information gold standard you know for information transmission the internet's evil like transmission the internet's evil like transmission the internet's evil like somehow it flipped. But anyway, the somehow it flipped. But anyway, the somehow it flipped. But anyway, the point being is like the internet gives point being is like the internet gives point being is like the internet gives us the chance to not only express us the chance to not only express us the chance to not only express ourselves like in short form, the ourselves like in short form, the ourselves like in short form, the internet specifically gives us the internet specifically gives us the internet specifically gives us the chance to express ourselves in long chance to express ourselves in long chance to express ourselves in long form, right? And fully explain things. form, right? And fully explain things. form, right? And fully explain things. And that's that's just so different. And that's that's just so different. And that's that's just so different. Like the the the the hour, hour and a Like the the the the hour, hour and a Like the the the the hour, hour and a half, two hour discussion with somebody half, two hour discussion with somebody half, two hour discussion with somebody who's like deeply into something and is who's like deeply into something and is who's like deeply into something and is really involved in something like I mean really involved in something like I mean really involved in something like I mean we all experience this as consumers. we all experience this as consumers. we all experience this as consumers. Like it's just so much better than the Like it's just so much better than the Like it's just so much better than the than the 30 secondond bit that you know than the 30 secondond bit that you know than the 30 secondond bit that you know might have been on the NBC Nightly News might have been on the NBC Nightly News might have been on the NBC Nightly News 30 years ago. And by the way, you know, 30 years ago. And by the way, you know, 30 years ago. And by the way, you know, the long form of almost anything that's the long form of almost anything that's the long form of almost anything that's interesting, complex, a systems problem, interesting, complex, a systems problem, interesting, complex, a systems problem, um, which is most everything in politics um, which is most everything in politics um, which is most everything in politics and in technology, and in technology, and in technology, you need the long form. There is no you need the long form. There is no you need the long form. There is no sound bite that gives you any sound bite that gives you any sound bite that gives you any information. Um, and so you have to have information. Um, and so you have to have information. Um, and so you have to have uh a long conversation. So it is uh a long conversation. So it is uh a long conversation. So it is actually m much better that Oreos are actually m much better that Oreos are actually m much better that Oreos are vegan as far as vegan as far as vegan as far as there's always that thing with sugar, there's always that thing with sugar, there's always that thing with sugar, you know, using bones or whatever to be you know, using bones or whatever to be you know, using bones or whatever to be whiter, that kind of thing. whiter, that kind of thing. whiter, that kind of thing. >> I'm going to eat a I'm going to eat a >> I'm going to eat a I'm going to eat a >> I'm going to eat a I'm going to eat a gigantic package of Oreos tonight in gigantic package of Oreos tonight in gigantic package of Oreos tonight in Deborah's honor. I really appreciate Deborah's honor. I really appreciate Deborah's honor. I really appreciate >> the Well, yeah. It's interesting. We've >> the Well, yeah. It's interesting. We've >> the Well, yeah. It's interesting. We've also talked about, you know, media also talked about, you know, media also talked about, you know, media training of the past used to be around training of the past used to be around training of the past used to be around sort of, you know, how to stay out of sort of, you know, how to stay out of sort of, you know, how to stay out of trouble, this kind of thing. And now now trouble, this kind of thing. And now now trouble, this kind of thing. And now now you you know if you're a CEO you want to you you know if you're a CEO you want to you you know if you're a CEO you want to be you know something uh you know Jordy be you know something uh you know Jordy be you know something uh you know Jordy from TVPN has this concept of a Joe from TVPN has this concept of a Joe from TVPN has this concept of a Joe Rogan CEO I someone interesting enough Rogan CEO I someone interesting enough Rogan CEO I someone interesting enough to go on Joe Rogan for three hour you to go on Joe Rogan for three hour you to go on Joe Rogan for three hour you know someone like an Alex Karp someone know someone like an Alex Karp someone know someone like an Alex Karp someone like a Palmer Lucky right and um because like a Palmer Lucky right and um because like a Palmer Lucky right and um because and and the flip side of that is that and and the flip side of that is that and and the flip side of that is that you know if you're interesting you know you know if you're interesting you know you know if you're interesting you know if you're powerful you're it's because if you're powerful you're it's because if you're powerful you're it's because you're interesting uh because that's you're interesting uh because that's you're interesting uh because that's what that's what people that's what what that's what people that's what what that's what people that's what people want to work for that's you know people want to work for that's you know people want to work for that's you know people want to be customers of it's people want to be customers of it's people want to be customers of it's people want to invest in um and if people want to invest in um and if people want to invest in um and if you're powerful and interesting you're you're powerful and interesting you're you're powerful and interesting you're going to be controversy ial and and and going to be controversy ial and and and going to be controversy ial and and and that's something that you guys have also that's something that you guys have also that's something that you guys have also helped me get more more more accustomed helped me get more more more accustomed helped me get more more more accustomed to is like hey you know this is the big to is like hey you know this is the big to is like hey you know this is the big leagues you know and there are people leagues you know and there are people leagues you know and there are people like who are going to be mad at what like who are going to be mad at what like who are going to be mad at what we're doing and and that is that that's we're doing and and that is that that's we're doing and and that is that that's in some ways that's a good thing that's in some ways that's a good thing that's in some ways that's a good thing that's it's evidence of of our power and and it's evidence of of our power and and it's evidence of of our power and and our interestingness our interestingness our interestingness >> yeah know I think that's right and I >> yeah know I think that's right and I >> yeah know I think that's right and I think that you know it's hard this is think that you know it's hard this is think that you know it's hard this is another kind of crossover between the another kind of crossover between the another kind of crossover between the old world and the new world because if old world and the new world because if old world and the new world because if you're a corporate brand then you know you're a corporate brand then you know you're a corporate brand then you know you try and keep all the dust off the you try and keep all the dust off the you try and keep all the dust off the brand and and you know try and be uh brand and and you know try and be uh brand and and you know try and be uh something that nobody hates uh I guess something that nobody hates uh I guess something that nobody hates uh I guess for lack of a better word and then you for lack of a better word and then you for lack of a better word and then you know I think in today's world to be good know I think in today's world to be good know I think in today's world to be good at marketing you've got to be at marketing you've got to be at marketing you've got to be interesting to be interesting if you're interesting to be interesting if you're interesting to be interesting if you're interesting and powerful there are going interesting and powerful there are going interesting and powerful there are going to be a lot of people who don't like you to be a lot of people who don't like you to be a lot of people who don't like you um and that's look that's a good thing um and that's look that's a good thing um and that's look that's a good thing um and I was very happy to see by the um and I was very happy to see by the um and I was very happy to see by the way the infrared piece because we can way the infrared piece because we can way the infrared piece because we can get like a nice piece on like a get like a nice piece on like a get like a nice piece on like a subsection of the firm, but nobody's subsection of the firm, but nobody's subsection of the firm, but nobody's ever going to write like a really nice ever going to write like a really nice ever going to write like a really nice thing about the whole firm. Um, I think thing about the whole firm. Um, I think thing about the whole firm. Um, I think that, that, that, you know, also you know, also you know, also it's a this whole new world is much it's a this whole new world is much it's a this whole new world is much better for founder CEOs because to be a better for founder CEOs because to be a better for founder CEOs because to be a founder, you have to have an original founder, you have to have an original founder, you have to have an original idea and original ideas are interesting idea and original ideas are interesting idea and original ideas are interesting by nature. I think that professional by nature. I think that professional by nature. I think that professional CEOs um often get to that position CEOs um often get to that position CEOs um often get to that position through very careful politicking which through very careful politicking which through very careful politicking which uh kind of is the opposite where you uh kind of is the opposite where you uh kind of is the opposite where you want to be uncontroversial like nobody want to be uncontroversial like nobody want to be uncontroversial like nobody can ding you right as you get to the can ding you right as you get to the can ding you right as you get to the thing and you know Mark and I have uh thing and you know Mark and I have uh thing and you know Mark and I have uh been on you know Mark much more than me been on you know Mark much more than me been on you know Mark much more than me but been on large boards where in the but been on large boards where in the but been on large boards where in the large boards you know when it comes to large boards you know when it comes to large boards you know when it comes to picking the professional CEO they're all picking the professional CEO they're all picking the professional CEO they're all about what's not wrong with him not about what's not wrong with him not about what's not wrong with him not what's right with or let's write with what's right with or let's write with what's right with or let's write with her. And so you get these very vanilla her. And so you get these very vanilla her. And so you get these very vanilla characters who definitely could not go characters who definitely could not go characters who definitely could not go on Joe Rogan. And that, you know, is all on Joe Rogan. And that, you know, is all on Joe Rogan. And that, you know, is all to our advantage because we basically to our advantage because we basically to our advantage because we basically deal almost entirely with founder CEOs. deal almost entirely with founder CEOs. deal almost entirely with founder CEOs. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I want to uh transition to one more >> I want to uh transition to one more >> I want to uh transition to one more structural mechanic because it's a segue structural mechanic because it's a segue structural mechanic because it's a segue into how we've built our team a little into how we've built our team a little into how we've built our team a little bit and it's um this Mark, it's this bit and it's um this Mark, it's this bit and it's um this Mark, it's this McLuhan quote. You know, if it's on TV, McLuhan quote. You know, if it's on TV, McLuhan quote. You know, if it's on TV, it's a TV show. Um, and just talking it's a TV show. Um, and just talking it's a TV show. Um, and just talking about how the different formats yield about how the different formats yield about how the different formats yield different types of content. Um, do you different types of content. Um, do you different types of content. Um, do you want to talk about want to talk about want to talk about >> Okay. You want you want me to do it? You >> Okay. You want you want me to do it? You >> Okay. You want you want me to do it? You want me to do it? want me to do it? want me to do it? >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. This is the >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. This is the >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. This is the thing. Okay. So, yeah, Marshall McLuhan thing. Okay. So, yeah, Marshall McLuhan thing. Okay. So, yeah, Marshall McLuhan was the great media theorist of the of was the great media theorist of the of was the great media theorist of the of the TV era and actually his his work has the TV era and actually his his work has the TV era and actually his his work has actually held up really well and it's actually held up really well and it's actually held up really well and it's it's it's worth reading. Um, but uh he it's it's worth reading. Um, but uh he it's it's worth reading. Um, but uh he he had he had this this thing Eric just he had he had this this thing Eric just he had he had this this thing Eric just said. He said if it's on TV, it's a said. He said if it's on TV, it's a said. He said if it's on TV, it's a television show. Um, in other words, television show. Um, in other words, television show. Um, in other words, like basically the the the you know, as like basically the the the you know, as like basically the the the you know, as he said, the medium is the message. Um, he said, the medium is the message. Um, he said, the medium is the message. Um, basically what he said is like look like basically what he said is like look like basically what he said is like look like TV TV is a specific kind of technology. TV TV is a specific kind of technology. TV TV is a specific kind of technology. It's a specific kind of media It's a specific kind of media It's a specific kind of media technology. Um, and basically like all technology. Um, and basically like all technology. Um, and basically like all of the questions around TV are like you of the questions around TV are like you of the questions around TV are like you know is it a is you know it's all know is it a is you know it's all know is it a is you know it's all basically just like the only real basically just like the only real basically just like the only real parameter is length. Like is it a parameter is length. Like is it a parameter is length. Like is it a three-minute news segment? Is it a three-minute news segment? Is it a three-minute news segment? Is it a 20inut sitcom? Is it a 40-minute drama? 20inut sitcom? Is it a 40-minute drama? 20inut sitcom? Is it a 40-minute drama? Like there's very little kind of Like there's very little kind of Like there's very little kind of variation in like what you can do variation in like what you can do variation in like what you can do because it's just a linear you know it's because it's just a linear you know it's because it's just a linear you know it's just a straight you know just you know just a straight you know just you know just a straight you know just you know broadcast video you know mass broadcast broadcast video you know mass broadcast broadcast video you know mass broadcast video. And so he said, you know, video. And so he said, you know, video. And so he said, you know, basically the medium in its first, you basically the medium in its first, you basically the medium in its first, you know, 10 or 20 years evolved, you know, know, 10 or 20 years evolved, you know, know, 10 or 20 years evolved, you know, basically the concept of what we now basically the concept of what we now basically the concept of what we now know to be a television show, which is know to be a television show, which is know to be a television show, which is basically either a comedy or a drama or basically either a comedy or a drama or basically either a comedy or a drama or or combination of the both. And it's or combination of the both. And it's or combination of the both. And it's basically a little story and it's a basically a little story and it's a basically a little story and it's a little story that plays over 20 to 40 little story that plays over 20 to 40 little story that plays over 20 to 40 minutes. And it kind of has to be a minutes. And it kind of has to be a minutes. And it kind of has to be a self-contained story because you don't self-contained story because you don't self-contained story because you don't know when people are going to watch it. know when people are going to watch it. know when people are going to watch it. And you know, now they're doing, you And you know, now they're doing, you And you know, now they're doing, you know, now they're doing, you know, with know, now they're doing, you know, with know, now they're doing, you know, with streaming they're doing serial stories, streaming they're doing serial stories, streaming they're doing serial stories, but you know, television shows properly but you know, television shows properly but you know, television shows properly generally were, you know, where generally were, you know, where generally were, you know, where everything was a one-off. You can watch everything was a one-off. You can watch everything was a one-off. You can watch episodes out of order. And so there's episodes out of order. And so there's episodes out of order. And so there's like there the there are the these very like there the there are the these very like there the there are the these very like self-contained little basically, like self-contained little basically, like self-contained little basically, you know, plays, little stage plays you know, plays, little stage plays you know, plays, little stage plays broadcast on video. And then there broadcast on video. And then there broadcast on video. And then there they're there these self-contained they're there these self-contained they're there these self-contained little stories and then and then they little stories and then and then they little stories and then and then they need to kind of appeal to emotion need to kind of appeal to emotion need to kind of appeal to emotion because it's like an emotional medium. U because it's like an emotional medium. U because it's like an emotional medium. U right it's not like an information dense right it's not like an information dense right it's not like an information dense medium. It's a you know it's a it's a medium. It's a you know it's a it's a medium. It's a you know it's a it's a it's it's a medium that literally puts it's it's a medium that literally puts it's it's a medium that literally puts somebody in your living room. Um and so somebody in your living room. Um and so somebody in your living room. Um and so basically it's it's like these little basically it's it's like these little basically it's it's like these little morality plays, right? Where and there's morality plays, right? Where and there's morality plays, right? Where and there's got to be like good guys and bad guys got to be like good guys and bad guys got to be like good guys and bad guys and kind of a very simplistic story and and kind of a very simplistic story and and kind of a very simplistic story and there's like a few, you know, a few mile there's like a few, you know, a few mile there's like a few, you know, a few mile plot twists and then everything kind of plot twists and then everything kind of plot twists and then everything kind of wraps up at the end. wraps up at the end. wraps up at the end. And what he says sort of the consequence And what he says sort of the consequence And what he says sort of the consequence of that is like everything on television of that is like everything on television of that is like everything on television has to be a television show and that has to be a television show and that has to be a television show and that includes everything in the real world includes everything in the real world includes everything in the real world that gets talked about on television has that gets talked about on television has that gets talked about on television has to be turned into a television show to be turned into a television show to be turned into a television show right and and and this is kind of you right and and and this is kind of you right and and and this is kind of you know the running joke of like following know the running joke of like following know the running joke of like following you know I don't know whatever current you know I don't know whatever current you know I don't know whatever current events or politics on TV right now which events or politics on TV right now which events or politics on TV right now which is kind of a running joke which is you is kind of a running joke which is you is kind of a running joke which is you know on either party which but it's just know on either party which but it's just know on either party which but it's just kind of like oh you know that you know kind of like oh you know that you know kind of like oh you know that you know you know oh it's you know it's time for you know oh it's you know it's time for you know oh it's you know it's time for the next season um oh you know this is the next season um oh you know this is the next season um oh you know this is the new you know main plot that's the new you know main plot that's the new you know main plot that's happening and then this is the new happening and then this is the new happening and then this is the new secondary plot that's happening and if secondary plot that's happening and if secondary plot that's happening and if you watch CNN every night you know you watch CNN every night you know you watch CNN every night you know they're just kind of you know they're they're just kind of you know they're they're just kind of you know they're kind of just playing with these stories, kind of just playing with these stories, kind of just playing with these stories, you know, kind of over time the way that you know, kind of over time the way that you know, kind of over time the way that a the way that a soap opera might or a the way that a soap opera might or a the way that a soap opera might or that a, you know, that a that a that that a, you know, that a that a that that a, you know, that a that a that that a drama might or occasionally, you that a drama might or occasionally, you that a drama might or occasionally, you know, how a comedy might. And so, so know, how a comedy might. And so, so know, how a comedy might. And so, so basically, we we've just like lived in a basically, we we've just like lived in a basically, we we've just like lived in a world where it just seems like world where it just seems like world where it just seems like everything's a TV show. Um, and it's everything's a TV show. Um, and it's everything's a TV show. Um, and it's it's a world where like all the edges it's a world where like all the edges it's a world where like all the edges are sanded off and everything is kind of are sanded off and everything is kind of are sanded off and everything is kind of very smooth and professional and very smooth and professional and very smooth and professional and everything is kind of within this very everything is kind of within this very everything is kind of within this very narrow band of what can be put into narrow band of what can be put into narrow band of what can be put into these kind of little little morality these kind of little little morality these kind of little little morality plays. Okay. So Marshall McLuhan plays. Okay. So Marshall McLuhan plays. Okay. So Marshall McLuhan unfortunately is long dead, but I I unfortunately is long dead, but I I unfortunately is long dead, but I I assert that if he were alive today, he assert that if he were alive today, he assert that if he were alive today, he would say if it's if it's on the would say if it's if it's on the would say if it's if it's on the internet, it's a viral internet post, internet, it's a viral internet post, internet, it's a viral internet post, right? So like what's the native medium right? So like what's the native medium right? So like what's the native medium of the internet? Like what's the thing of the internet? Like what's the thing of the internet? Like what's the thing that what's the form of media on the that what's the form of media on the that what's the form of media on the internet that like rips and dominates? internet that like rips and dominates? internet that like rips and dominates? And it's clearly the viral post, right? And it's clearly the viral post, right? And it's clearly the viral post, right? It's it's the viral, you know, tweet. It's it's the viral, you know, tweet. It's it's the viral, you know, tweet. It's the viral Tik Tok. It's the viral It's the viral Tik Tok. It's the viral It's the viral Tik Tok. It's the viral Instagram, right? It's the it's the it's Instagram, right? It's the it's the it's Instagram, right? It's the it's the it's the viral Facebook post. It's the viral the viral Facebook post. It's the viral the viral Facebook post. It's the viral Substack. It's the viral YouTube video. Substack. It's the viral YouTube video. Substack. It's the viral YouTube video. Like it's very clearly the post. Like it's very clearly the post. Like it's very clearly the post. specifically it's the viral post like specifically it's the viral post like specifically it's the viral post like it's it's the one that really rips and it's it's the one that really rips and it's it's the one that really rips and so so basically you're right right so my so so basically you're right right so my so so basically you're right right so my theory is if it's on the internet um theory is if it's on the internet um theory is if it's on the internet um everything is a viral post and then you everything is a viral post and then you everything is a viral post and then you just ask yourself two questions which is just ask yourself two questions which is just ask yourself two questions which is like okay what's the characteristic of a like okay what's the characteristic of a like okay what's the characteristic of a viral post and and like nine times out viral post and and like nine times out viral post and and like nine times out of 10 it's something that like really of 10 it's something that like really of 10 it's something that like really gets people cranked up right like on gets people cranked up right like on gets people cranked up right like on whatever topic right it might be on whatever topic right it might be on whatever topic right it might be on whatever your favorite pop star said whatever your favorite pop star said whatever your favorite pop star said yesterday or it might be on whatever you yesterday or it might be on whatever you yesterday or it might be on whatever you know a politician said or it might be on know a politician said or it might be on know a politician said or it might be on whatever you know a business leader said whatever you know a business leader said whatever you know a business leader said or whatever but like it's something that or whatever but like it's something that or whatever but like it's something that like causes people to like flip out like causes people to like flip out like causes people to like flip out right uh you know you know and Maybe right uh you know you know and Maybe right uh you know you know and Maybe some people flip out positively, some some people flip out positively, some some people flip out positively, some people flip out negatively or something people flip out negatively or something people flip out negatively or something caused people to flip out. And then the caused people to flip out. And then the caused people to flip out. And then the other thing with viral posts that's other thing with viral posts that's other thing with viral posts that's really interesting is you can actually really interesting is you can actually really interesting is you can actually observe this in the data. They have this observe this in the data. They have this observe this in the data. They have this really rapid rise. Like they tend to if really rapid rise. Like they tend to if really rapid rise. Like they tend to if if they're going to take off, they tend if they're going to take off, they tend if they're going to take off, they tend to take off within like 12 hours and to take off within like 12 hours and to take off within like 12 hours and then they spike like crazy as everybody then they spike like crazy as everybody then they spike like crazy as everybody retweets or reposts and you know emails retweets or reposts and you know emails retweets or reposts and you know emails it around and talks about it and then it around and talks about it and then it around and talks about it and then there's basically this like half-life there's basically this like half-life there's basically this like half-life falloff where like within 24 it's like falloff where like within 24 it's like falloff where like within 24 it's like 12 hours up and then it's like 20 24 12 hours up and then it's like 20 24 12 hours up and then it's like 20 24 hours down and then 36 hours later it's hours down and then 36 hours later it's hours down and then 36 hours later it's like gone from our collective memory. like gone from our collective memory. like gone from our collective memory. And the reason is because another one And the reason is because another one And the reason is because another one has popped up and has taken off instead. has popped up and has taken off instead. has popped up and has taken off instead. And if you kind of take a step back and And if you kind of take a step back and And if you kind of take a step back and kind of chart the media landscape that kind of chart the media landscape that kind of chart the media landscape that we've all been living in for the last we've all been living in for the last we've all been living in for the last whatever, you know, for sure 5 years, whatever, you know, for sure 5 years, whatever, you know, for sure 5 years, but you know, you could even say but you know, you could even say but you know, you could even say probably 10 years. What we've lived probably 10 years. What we've lived probably 10 years. What we've lived through is just bas lit literally just through is just bas lit literally just through is just bas lit literally just like thousands of cycles of viral posts. like thousands of cycles of viral posts. like thousands of cycles of viral posts. Um, okay. Is, you know, is this good or Um, okay. Is, you know, is this good or Um, okay. Is, you know, is this good or bad or something in the middle? You bad or something in the middle? You bad or something in the middle? You could have a big debate about that. Um, could have a big debate about that. Um, could have a big debate about that. Um, it, you know, I would argue it's its own it, you know, I would argue it's its own it, you know, I would argue it's its own form of emotionality, right? It's it's form of emotionality, right? It's it's form of emotionality, right? It's it's basically things that spike the cortisol basically things that spike the cortisol basically things that spike the cortisol and so that you know it's sort of things and so that you know it's sort of things and so that you know it's sort of things that are controversial and so it leans that are controversial and so it leans that are controversial and so it leans into that but you know the other side is into that but you know the other side is into that but you know the other side is it's things that are interesting right it's things that are interesting right it's things that are interesting right um and then the other part is you know um and then the other part is you know um and then the other part is you know the people get a vote of what goes viral the people get a vote of what goes viral the people get a vote of what goes viral right it's not just up to a news right it's not just up to a news right it's not just up to a news producer what what shows up on TV so producer what what shows up on TV so producer what what shows up on TV so there there there's that aspect to it um there there there's that aspect to it um there there there's that aspect to it um another aspect to it by the way is that another aspect to it by the way is that another aspect to it by the way is that stories come and go much more quickly stories come and go much more quickly stories come and go much more quickly now right and so there will be some now right and so there will be some now right and so there will be some thing that pops and it's like the thing that pops and it's like the thing that pops and it's like the world's biggest crisis in whatever world's biggest crisis in whatever world's biggest crisis in whatever sector it's talking about and it's just sector it's talking about and it's just sector it's talking about and it's just like everybody in the world has an like everybody in the world has an like everybody in the world has an opinion this is where I I was using you opinion this is where I I was using you opinion this is where I I was using you a while back the the the name of the a while back the the the name of the a while back the the the name of the current thing like it's the current current thing like it's the current current thing like it's the current thing. Everybody has to have an opinion thing. Everybody has to have an opinion thing. Everybody has to have an opinion on the current thing. It's the most on the current thing. It's the most on the current thing. It's the most important thing in the world. And then important thing in the world. And then important thing in the world. And then 24 hours later, it's like it never 24 hours later, it's like it never 24 hours later, it's like it never happened because something else has happened because something else has happened because something else has become the current thing. And then that become the current thing. And then that become the current thing. And then that leads to, you know, the new the new leads to, you know, the new the new leads to, you know, the new the new version of the old time honor strategy version of the old time honor strategy version of the old time honor strategy of getting through media crisis, which of getting through media crisis, which of getting through media crisis, which is like just like basically make sure is like just like basically make sure is like just like basically make sure something else, you know, becomes the something else, you know, becomes the something else, you know, becomes the new viral post. U you know, gets get new viral post. U you know, gets get new viral post. U you know, gets get something else elevated into that thing. something else elevated into that thing. something else elevated into that thing. So that you know, there's there's So that you know, there's there's So that you know, there's there's there's this way to kind of deal with there's this way to kind of deal with there's this way to kind of deal with these things. But but anyway, I just these things. But but anyway, I just these things. But but anyway, I just think like as long as the internet is think like as long as the internet is think like as long as the internet is the medium of choice, we're going to the medium of choice, we're going to the medium of choice, we're going to live in a world in which this is what it live in a world in which this is what it live in a world in which this is what it you know this is the cycle now. It's you know this is the cycle now. It's you know this is the cycle now. It's like a 24 36-hour cycle. By the way, the like a 24 36-hour cycle. By the way, the like a 24 36-hour cycle. By the way, the traditional media in the form of traditional media in the form of traditional media in the form of newspapers and television like at least newspapers and television like at least newspapers and television like at least the way I read them is they're basically the way I read them is they're basically the way I read them is they're basically covering whatever was the viral post covering whatever was the viral post covering whatever was the viral post like yesterday or a week ago, like yesterday or a week ago, like yesterday or a week ago, >> right? And so, right, so they're being >> right? And so, right, so they're being >> right? And so, right, so they're being driven by the internet viral post, which driven by the internet viral post, which driven by the internet viral post, which is which, you know, which is why I think is which, you know, which is why I think is which, you know, which is why I think that, you know, the internet viral post that, you know, the internet viral post that, you know, the internet viral post is is the high order thing. And and I is is the high order thing. And and I is is the high order thing. And and I also think like that that's not going to also think like that that's not going to also think like that that's not going to change. Like they the whole long thing I change. Like they the whole long thing I change. Like they the whole long thing I could do on that, but like they could do on that, but like they could do on that, but like they literally if you're a television if literally if you're a television if literally if you're a television if you're a television producer or if you're a television producer or if you're a television producer or if you're a news editor or whatever, like you're a news editor or whatever, like you're a news editor or whatever, like you you can't possibly move your you you can't possibly move your you you can't possibly move your organization fast enough to stay ahead organization fast enough to stay ahead organization fast enough to stay ahead of these cycles. And so what you end up of these cycles. And so what you end up of these cycles. And so what you end up doing is you end up chasing them and and doing is you end up chasing them and and doing is you end up chasing them and and that's basically the role of mainstream that's basically the role of mainstream that's basically the role of mainstream media for the rest of our life is just media for the rest of our life is just media for the rest of our life is just going to be to follow the internet viral going to be to follow the internet viral going to be to follow the internet viral post. post. post. >> Yeah. There was a funny joke on the >> Yeah. There was a funny joke on the >> Yeah. There was a funny joke on the Daily Show years ago where they were Daily Show years ago where they were Daily Show years ago where they were talking to newspaper guy and he said, talking to newspaper guy and he said, talking to newspaper guy and he said, "Why do you call it news? You should "Why do you call it news? You should "Why do you call it news? You should call it olds." call it olds." call it olds." That's good. Um, That's good. Um, That's good. Um, >> he it was he was it at the time the >> he it was he was it at the time the >> he it was he was it at the time the managing editor of the New York Times managing editor of the New York Times managing editor of the New York Times and he was in his office and the New and he was in his office and the New and he was in his office and the New York Times, you know, was expecting to York Times, you know, was expecting to York Times, you know, was expecting to get this glowing coverage on the Daily get this glowing coverage on the Daily get this glowing coverage on the Daily Show and whoever it was shows up in the Show and whoever it was shows up in the Show and whoever it was shows up in the office and says says what Ben just said office and says says what Ben just said office and says says what Ben just said and the guy and the editor is just like and the guy and the editor is just like and the guy and the editor is just like completely confused. Like he clearly has completely confused. Like he clearly has completely confused. Like he clearly has no idea what the Daily Show guy is no idea what the Daily Show guy is no idea what the Daily Show guy is talking about and and he's like, "Well, talking about and and he's like, "Well, talking about and and he's like, "Well, like what do you mean?" And he and he's like what do you mean?" And he and he's like what do you mean?" And he and he's like he points there's like a pilot like he points there's like a pilot like he points there's like a pilot literally physical newspapers in the literally physical newspapers in the literally physical newspapers in the guy's desk and he says like, "Look, it's guy's desk and he says like, "Look, it's guy's desk and he says like, "Look, it's it's all old news." And he's he's like, it's all old news." And he's he's like, it's all old news." And he's he's like, "No, no, it's today's paper." And he's "No, no, it's today's paper." And he's "No, no, it's today's paper." And he's like, "No, no, it's yesterday's paper. like, "No, no, it's yesterday's paper. like, "No, no, it's yesterday's paper. like I already know everything that's in like I already know everything that's in like I already know everything that's in that like you know and so and yeah and that like you know and so and yeah and that like you know and so and yeah and and like it's just basically like again and like it's just basically like again and like it's just basically like again what do they have they're very proud of what do they have they're very proud of what do they have they're very proud of this they have their editorial process this they have their editorial process this they have their editorial process they have their publication process like they have their publication process like they have their publication process like they they have multi-layer you know they they have multi-layer you know they they have multi-layer you know bureaucratic mechanism for you know all bureaucratic mechanism for you know all bureaucratic mechanism for you know all all the news that's fit to print that all the news that's fit to print that all the news that's fit to print that you know it's at least a 24-hour cycle you know it's at least a 24-hour cycle you know it's at least a 24-hour cycle to figure that out and I mean and you to figure that out and I mean and you to figure that out and I mean and you know 24 hours later the internet has know 24 hours later the internet has know 24 hours later the internet has already moved on from whatever the last already moved on from whatever the last already moved on from whatever the last thing was and so it's just it's it's a thing was and so it's just it's it's a thing was and so it's just it's it's a it's a it's another example of the dog it's a it's another example of the dog it's a it's another example of the dog chasing the car except now they have to chasing the car except now they have to chasing the car except now they have to chase it like every single day which chase it like every single day which chase it like every single day which might be why they're so upset all the might be why they're so upset all the might be why they're so upset all the time. Yeah, they are pissed. time. Yeah, they are pissed. time. Yeah, they are pissed. >> You know, we've really made sure to hire >> You know, we've really made sure to hire >> You know, we've really made sure to hire people who really understand the people who really understand the people who really understand the platform, not just how the platform platform, not just how the platform platform, not just how the platform works technically, but also the the vibe works technically, but also the the vibe works technically, but also the the vibe and the taste and the and the spirit of and the taste and the and the spirit of and the taste and the and the spirit of of the platform. And and we've gone all of the platform. And and we've gone all of the platform. And and we've gone all in to start um on on X because that in to start um on on X because that in to start um on on X because that those are just where the most those are just where the most those are just where the most interesting conversations are happening interesting conversations are happening interesting conversations are happening and where where people are the most and where where people are the most and where where people are the most plugged in. plugged in. plugged in. >> And and the way I think about >> And and the way I think about >> And and the way I think about >> most of the tech world is on X, you >> most of the tech world is on X, you >> most of the tech world is on X, you know, like it or not, like our world know, like it or not, like our world know, like it or not, like our world lives on X. um just because that's also lives on X. um just because that's also lives on X. um just because that's also where all the where all the where all the bo both the kind of AI researchers and bo both the kind of AI researchers and bo both the kind of AI researchers and the AI influencers and the crypto the AI influencers and the crypto the AI influencers and the crypto influencer like like everybody in our influencer like like everybody in our influencer like like everybody in our world lives there uh you know at least world lives there uh you know at least world lives there uh you know at least in part. So we can't avoid it even if we in part. So we can't avoid it even if we in part. So we can't avoid it even if we didn't like it. didn't like it. didn't like it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But we love it. >> But we love it. >> But we love it. >> You were about to say something more. >> You were about to say something more. >> You were about to say something more. >> Oh yeah. No, I was just going to say >> Oh yeah. No, I was just going to say >> Oh yeah. No, I was just going to say yeah. I know look what Ben said is yeah yeah. I know look what Ben said is yeah yeah. I know look what Ben said is yeah that like this is I posted a link to a that like this is I posted a link to a that like this is I posted a link to a book called the true believer that kind book called the true believer that kind book called the true believer that kind of talk talks about this is you know the of talk talks about this is you know the of talk talks about this is you know the old characterization is elites and old characterization is elites and old characterization is elites and masses which is a little bit 20th masses which is a little bit 20th masses which is a little bit 20th century but yeah like the the like century but yeah like the the like century but yeah like the the like people who are spending 24 hours a day people who are spending 24 hours a day people who are spending 24 hours a day trying to understand you know basically trying to understand you know basically trying to understand you know basically in these domains like AI or you know in these domains like AI or you know in these domains like AI or you know politics or whatever like they they're politics or whatever like they they're politics or whatever like they they're on X like and and that's that then on X like and and that's that then on X like and and that's that then that's not the mass market like that's that's not the mass market like that's that's not the mass market like that's not most of humanity but like that's not most of humanity but like that's not most of humanity but like that's most of the people who are like most of the people who are like most of the people who are like basically in the what you might I don't basically in the what you might I don't basically in the what you might I don't know what you want to call like know what you want to call like know what you want to call like knowledge synthesis business or whatever knowledge synthesis business or whatever knowledge synthesis business or whatever where they're trying to like understand where they're trying to like understand where they're trying to like understand and formulate policies on things and so and formulate policies on things and so and formulate policies on things and so forth. forth. forth. um obvious obviously it's also true that um obvious obviously it's also true that um obvious obviously it's also true that Tik Tok and Instagram you know have just Tik Tok and Instagram you know have just Tik Tok and Instagram you know have just like much more reach like they're you like much more reach like they're you like much more reach like they're you know they're just much bigger um you know they're just much bigger um you know they're just much bigger um you know they reach the mass kind of global know they reach the mass kind of global know they reach the mass kind of global audience um more and so you know they audience um more and so you know they audience um more and so you know they certainly they certainly play a role but certainly they certainly play a role but certainly they certainly play a role but if if you're on the leading edge of a if if you're on the leading edge of a if if you're on the leading edge of a field like you know it's it's very rare field like you know it's it's very rare field like you know it's it's very rare that the whatever is kind of the lead that the whatever is kind of the lead that the whatever is kind of the lead you know you know kind of the edge of you know you know kind of the edge of you know you know kind of the edge of that process of kind of idea formation that process of kind of idea formation that process of kind of idea formation propagation people you know in positions propagation people you know in positions propagation people you know in positions of of authority kind of figuring out of of authority kind of figuring out of of authority kind of figuring out what they think it's that's almost what they think it's that's almost what they think it's that's almost entirely unex media IA and new media. So if you come media IA and new media. So if you come from old media world, from old media world, from old media world, there's just reach. there's just reach. there's just reach. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like the targets, you know, if >> Right. Like the targets, you know, if >> Right. Like the targets, you know, if you were going for a target audience. Um you were going for a target audience. Um you were going for a target audience. Um there was no real easy way to do it. Old there was no real easy way to do it. Old there was no real easy way to do it. Old I mean, you know, like maybe like if you I mean, you know, like maybe like if you I mean, you know, like maybe like if you were sports, you'd be in Sports were sports, you'd be in Sports were sports, you'd be in Sports Illustrator or whatever, but like there Illustrator or whatever, but like there Illustrator or whatever, but like there wasn't really a way to do it. Um, but wasn't really a way to do it. Um, but wasn't really a way to do it. Um, but now with podcasts and and blogs and X now with podcasts and and blogs and X now with podcasts and and blogs and X and so forth, you can go to an exact and so forth, you can go to an exact and so forth, you can go to an exact audience. You can really get down to an audience. You can really get down to an audience. You can really get down to an extremely narrow target in new media extremely narrow target in new media extremely narrow target in new media world. And you know, for us, that's world. And you know, for us, that's world. And you know, for us, that's great because the audience, our audience great because the audience, our audience great because the audience, our audience is founders, not the world. Uh, and so, is founders, not the world. Uh, and so, is founders, not the world. Uh, and so, you know, having a way to talk to 90% of you know, having a way to talk to 90% of you know, having a way to talk to 90% of founders as opposed to 4% of the world founders as opposed to 4% of the world founders as opposed to 4% of the world is just a much better thing for us. is just a much better thing for us. is just a much better thing for us. Yeah, the the two two two more Yeah, the the two two two more Yeah, the the two two two more structural things Mark I want you to structural things Mark I want you to structural things Mark I want you to explain and then I want to present some explain and then I want to present some explain and then I want to present some some some slides you give some detail some some slides you give some detail some some slides you give some detail about what we're doing that that rel about what we're doing that that rel about what we're doing that that rel that relate to what I'm about to say. that relate to what I'm about to say. that relate to what I'm about to say. One is I want you to explain the the One is I want you to explain the the One is I want you to explain the the Boyd um loop and and why you know that Boyd um loop and and why you know that Boyd um loop and and why you know that that makes Twitter and and social media that makes Twitter and and social media that makes Twitter and and social media so much more powerful in terms of you so much more powerful in terms of you so much more powerful in terms of you know forming consensus. Um and then the know forming consensus. Um and then the know forming consensus. Um and then the other is the difference between written other is the difference between written other is the difference between written and oral culture and and and what's and oral culture and and and what's and oral culture and and and what's prioritized um in you know as we prioritized um in you know as we prioritized um in you know as we transition to oral. transition to oral. transition to oral. >> Yeah. Okay. So these are both long >> Yeah. Okay. So these are both long >> Yeah. Okay. So these are both long topics and so I'll try to do the the topics and so I'll try to do the the topics and so I'll try to do the the cliffnotes version. Um yeah. So um I'll cliffnotes version. Um yeah. So um I'll cliffnotes version. Um yeah. So um I'll I'll I'll link to the book on this but I'll I'll link to the book on this but I'll I'll link to the book on this but in in in in military theory there in in in in military theory there in in in in military theory there there's this concept called maneuver there's this concept called maneuver there's this concept called maneuver warfare which basically just says like warfare which basically just says like warfare which basically just says like speed speed wins like speed speed wins speed speed wins like speed speed wins speed speed wins like speed speed wins as compared to ma ma mass winning uh as compared to ma ma mass winning uh as compared to ma ma mass winning uh speed wins. And so if if you if you speed wins. And so if if you if you speed wins. And so if if you if you believe that then there's basically this believe that then there's basically this believe that then there's basically this frame there's this framework called frame there's this framework called frame there's this framework called called the UDA loop O O D A loop uh called the UDA loop O O D A loop uh called the UDA loop O O D A loop uh which originally was developed for which originally was developed for which originally was developed for fighter pilots and then later for for fighter pilots and then later for for fighter pilots and then later for for broader military strategy. Um and the broader military strategy. Um and the broader military strategy. Um and the UDA loop that what what UDA stands for UDA loop that what what UDA stands for UDA loop that what what UDA stands for it's an acronym um it stands for observe it's an acronym um it stands for observe it's an acronym um it stands for observe orient decide act. Um and so it's orient decide act. Um and so it's orient decide act. Um and so it's basically the decision-making cycle, basically the decision-making cycle, basically the decision-making cycle, right? And so and observe is like view right? And so and observe is like view right? And so and observe is like view the outside world. Orient is like figure the outside world. Orient is like figure the outside world. Orient is like figure out where you are in respect to the out where you are in respect to the out where you are in respect to the outside world. U decide of course decide outside world. U decide of course decide outside world. U decide of course decide what to do. Act uh uh act. And basically what to do. Act uh uh act. And basically what to do. Act uh uh act. And basically what this guy boy who came up with this what this guy boy who came up with this what this guy boy who came up with this idea said was like any military oper any idea said was like any military oper any idea said was like any military oper any fighter pilot any military operation any fighter pilot any military operation any fighter pilot any military operation any you know basketball player any um you you know basketball player any um you you know basketball player any um you know company any government um um know company any government um um know company any government um um basically goes through a a basically goes through a a basically goes through a a decision-making cycle that's like that decision-making cycle that's like that decision-making cycle that's like that in order to make decisions we just in order to make decisions we just in order to make decisions we just talked about the New York Times has talked about the New York Times has talked about the New York Times has their own udaloop it's like 24 hours to their own udaloop it's like 24 hours to their own udaloop it's like 24 hours to go through their process um uh right and go through their process um uh right and go through their process um uh right and so um and so um and then basically what so um and so um and then basically what so um and so um and then basically what he said is like if if speed is the thing he said is like if if speed is the thing he said is like if if speed is the thing that matters then the person who gets that matters then the person who gets that matters then the person who gets through that cycle the fastest is the through that cycle the fastest is the through that cycle the fastest is the one who's going to win. But he said one who's going to win. But he said one who's going to win. But he said there's a second order thing that there's a second order thing that there's a second order thing that happens. So one is just like is your happens. So one is just like is your happens. So one is just like is your udal loop faster than the than the other udal loop faster than the than the other udal loop faster than the than the other guys. So so that's one question. But he guys. So so that's one question. But he guys. So so that's one question. But he said the other thing can happen is if if said the other thing can happen is if if said the other thing can happen is if if you if you can have a sustainably faster you if you can have a sustainably faster you if you can have a sustainably faster udaloop processing cycle than the next udaloop processing cycle than the next udaloop processing cycle than the next guy um then if you think about what guy um then if you think about what guy um then if you think about what happens like let's say it takes you know happens like let's say it takes you know happens like let's say it takes you know you whatever you know an hour to figure you whatever you know an hour to figure you whatever you know an hour to figure something out it takes the other guy two something out it takes the other guy two something out it takes the other guy two hours to figure something out. Think hours to figure something out. Think hours to figure something out. Think about what happens is like okay you about what happens is like okay you about what happens is like okay you start out on an even playing field. um start out on an even playing field. um start out on an even playing field. um you both start your your your your you both start your your your your you both start your your your your decision-m cycles. Um you operate you decision-m cycles. Um you operate you decision-m cycles. Um you operate you you make your decision within an hour. you make your decision within an hour. you make your decision within an hour. The other guy is still say is inside his The other guy is still say is inside his The other guy is still say is inside his own udaloop when you make your decision, own udaloop when you make your decision, own udaloop when you make your decision, right? And so you make your decision, right? And so you make your decision, right? And so you make your decision, you act within an hour. He's only you act within an hour. He's only you act within an hour. He's only halfway through his process. He now has halfway through his process. He now has halfway through his process. He now has to start his process over, right? Cuz to start his process over, right? Cuz to start his process over, right? Cuz because you've changed the landscape, because you've changed the landscape, because you've changed the landscape, you've changed the parameters of what's you've changed the parameters of what's you've changed the parameters of what's going on. So he now has to go back and going on. So he now has to go back and going on. So he now has to go back and reobserve and reorient and start over, reobserve and reorient and start over, reobserve and reorient and start over, right? And then and then of course right? And then and then of course right? And then and then of course project forward. It's like, okay, then project forward. It's like, okay, then project forward. It's like, okay, then you decide again within an hour and then you decide again within an hour and then you decide again within an hour and then by the time he gets and again he gets by the time he gets and again he gets by the time he gets and again he gets halfway through his process, he gets halfway through his process, he gets halfway through his process, he gets interrupted. Um, he has to go back. And interrupted. Um, he has to go back. And interrupted. Um, he has to go back. And so what he says is if you if you can be so what he says is if you if you can be so what he says is if you if you can be sustainably faster at running your sustainably faster at running your sustainably faster at running your decision loop, you can get inside the decision loop, you can get inside the decision loop, you can get inside the other guy's loop in a in a systematic other guy's loop in a in a systematic other guy's loop in a in a systematic and perpetual way and and basically the and perpetual way and and basically the and perpetual way and and basically the result of that is psychological result of that is psychological result of that is psychological breakdown. Uh, basically you you destroy breakdown. Uh, basically you you destroy breakdown. Uh, basically you you destroy the psychology of the other side because the psychology of the other side because the psychology of the other side because they just simply they they just can no they just simply they they just can no they just simply they they just can no longer operate or function at all. They longer operate or function at all. They longer operate or function at all. They just like basically go into complete just like basically go into complete just like basically go into complete panic. Nothing seems to make sense. They panic. Nothing seems to make sense. They panic. Nothing seems to make sense. They can never get oriented. They can never can never get oriented. They can never can never get oriented. They can never make decisions. they can never they make decisions. they can never they make decisions. they can never they become completely defensive, completely become completely defensive, completely become completely defensive, completely responsive. You completely dominate, you responsive. You completely dominate, you responsive. You completely dominate, you know, basically the playing field. Um, know, basically the playing field. Um, know, basically the playing field. Um, and he, you know, he he was a famous and he, you know, he he was a famous and he, you know, he he was a famous fighter pilot. He was a he was a famous fighter pilot. He was a he was a famous fighter pilot. He was a he was a famous fighter pilot called 15-second void fighter pilot called 15-second void fighter pilot called 15-second void because he his claim was and which was because he his claim was and which was because he his claim was and which was true is he could beat any other fighter true is he could beat any other fighter true is he could beat any other fighter pilot in dog fight within 15 seconds um pilot in dog fight within 15 seconds um pilot in dog fight within 15 seconds um using this method. And so it's basically using this method. And so it's basically using this method. And so it's basically this this premium on speed and quality this this premium on speed and quality this this premium on speed and quality of execution such that you were actually of execution such that you were actually of execution such that you were actually causing the other side to have a h have causing the other side to have a h have causing the other side to have a h have a psychological break. Um, by the way, a psychological break. Um, by the way, a psychological break. Um, by the way, like again, go back to the like I think like again, go back to the like I think like again, go back to the like I think this is also a big explanation for this is also a big explanation for this is also a big explanation for what's happened to traditional media. what's happened to traditional media. what's happened to traditional media. The the fact that the internet moves The the fact that the internet moves The the fact that the internet moves events so much faster and the sort of events so much faster and the sort of events so much faster and the sort of internet collective crowd decides what's internet collective crowd decides what's internet collective crowd decides what's important so much faster causes all the important so much faster causes all the important so much faster causes all the people who were television producers or people who were television producers or people who were television producers or news editors who thought that they were news editors who thought that they were news editors who thought that they were in charge of the narrative to just in charge of the narrative to just in charge of the narrative to just basically have a psychological breakdown basically have a psychological breakdown basically have a psychological breakdown like how how can you even function when like how how can you even function when like how how can you even function when the internet is just basically cycling the internet is just basically cycling the internet is just basically cycling much faster than you could. And I think much faster than you could. And I think much faster than you could. And I think this by the way the same is true of this by the way the same is true of this by the way the same is true of companies. You know this is what Elon companies. You know this is what Elon companies. You know this is what Elon does, you know, to his competitors like does, you know, to his competitors like does, you know, to his competitors like in the defense, you know, in the in the defense, you know, in the in the defense, you know, in the aerospace industry. this is what Andre aerospace industry. this is what Andre aerospace industry. this is what Andre is now doing to companies in the defense is now doing to companies in the defense is now doing to companies in the defense industry. Um, you know, this quite industry. Um, you know, this quite industry. Um, you know, this quite frankly is what we try to do, you know, frankly is what we try to do, you know, frankly is what we try to do, you know, to our competitors in the venture to our competitors in the venture to our competitors in the venture industry. Um, so yeah, so that now to do industry. Um, so yeah, so that now to do industry. Um, so yeah, so that now to do that you have to be willing to commit to that you have to be willing to commit to that you have to be willing to commit to being fast, right? Um, and so you you being fast, right? Um, and so you you being fast, right? Um, and so you you can't you can't have long bureaucratic can't you can't have long bureaucratic can't you can't have long bureaucratic processes. You can't have, you know, you processes. You can't have, you know, you processes. You can't have, you know, you know, a riskadverse posture. You can't, know, a riskadverse posture. You can't, know, a riskadverse posture. You can't, you know, stress, you know, you you need you know, stress, you know, you you need you know, stress, you know, you you need enough time to make the decision enough time to make the decision enough time to make the decision properly. um you know but you you can't properly. um you know but you you can't properly. um you know but you you can't you can't run the fully deliberate um you can't run the fully deliberate um you can't run the fully deliberate um you know strategy that a lot of you know strategy that a lot of you know strategy that a lot of companies used to have in the past where companies used to have in the past where companies used to have in the past where it was days to weeks to months to figure it was days to weeks to months to figure it was days to weeks to months to figure out you know what they were going to say out you know what they were going to say out you know what they were going to say about something um by the way in in about something um by the way in in about something um by the way in in politics they adapted to this probably politics they adapted to this probably politics they adapted to this probably 30 years ago uh with the concept of the 30 years ago uh with the concept of the 30 years ago uh with the concept of the war room um and there's a famous war room um and there's a famous war room um and there's a famous documentary in the Clinton campaign and documentary in the Clinton campaign and documentary in the Clinton campaign and I think in is it 88 uh where called the I think in is it 88 uh where called the I think in is it 88 uh where called the war room where they they show this and war room where they they show this and war room where they they show this and now now they call it rapid response and now now they call it rapid response and now now they call it rapid response and if you if you if you go to basically any if you if you if you go to basically any if you if you if you go to basically any any political operation on the internet any political operation on the internet any political operation on the internet right now um you know they'll have an ex right now um you know they'll have an ex right now um you know they'll have an ex account that's literally they call it account that's literally they call it account that's literally they call it like rapid response so it's Actually, like rapid response so it's Actually, like rapid response so it's Actually, Department of War has one just as an Department of War has one just as an Department of War has one just as an example. Department of War rapid example. Department of War rapid example. Department of War rapid response and it's literally like they're response and it's literally like they're response and it's literally like they're responding in real time to stuff that's responding in real time to stuff that's responding in real time to stuff that's happening because they want to stay happening because they want to stay happening because they want to stay inside um you know, everybody else's inside um you know, everybody else's inside um you know, everybody else's udaloop. Um yeah. Okay. So, there's udaloop. Um yeah. Okay. So, there's udaloop. Um yeah. Okay. So, there's that. And then yeah, the the the oral that. And then yeah, the the the oral that. And then yeah, the the the oral versus written thing is it's it would versus written thing is it's it would versus written thing is it's it would probably take an hour to kind of go probably take an hour to kind of go probably take an hour to kind of go through the whole thing, but yeah, the through the whole thing, but yeah, the through the whole thing, but yeah, the long and short of it is there there's long and short of it is there there's long and short of it is there there's basically in sort of human culture, basically in sort of human culture, basically in sort of human culture, there's kind of two ways to communicate. there's kind of two ways to communicate. there's kind of two ways to communicate. There's two fundamental modes. There's There's two fundamental modes. There's There's two fundamental modes. There's oral communication, there's written oral communication, there's written oral communication, there's written communication. You know, oral communication. You know, oral communication. You know, oral communication, you know, is the original communication, you know, is the original communication, you know, is the original form. And you could think about it form. And you could think about it form. And you could think about it literally as like people around a literally as like people around a literally as like people around a campfire telling stories, singing songs, campfire telling stories, singing songs, campfire telling stories, singing songs, you know, reciting poetry. Um, you can you know, reciting poetry. Um, you can you know, reciting poetry. Um, you can think about written communication would think about written communication would think about written communication would be, you know, kind of famously the book, be, you know, kind of famously the book, be, you know, kind of famously the book, um, or the scientific journal article, um, or the scientific journal article, um, or the scientific journal article, right? Or the math equation, um, or the right? Or the math equation, um, or the right? Or the math equation, um, or the business plan, right? Um, you know, you business plan, right? Um, you know, you business plan, right? Um, you know, you know, a written artifact. Um, and that know, a written artifact. Um, and that know, a written artifact. Um, and that basically the characteristic of orality basically the characteristic of orality basically the characteristic of orality or oral communication is it's it's sort or oral communication is it's it's sort or oral communication is it's it's sort of inherently emotion first. Um, right? of inherently emotion first. Um, right? of inherently emotion first. Um, right? Because it's it's, you know, literally, Because it's it's, you know, literally, Because it's it's, you know, literally, you know, live interactions with another you know, live interactions with another you know, live interactions with another person. Um uh the characteristic of person. Um uh the characteristic of person. Um uh the characteristic of written communication is sort of written communication is sort of written communication is sort of abstraction, you know, and you know, abstraction, you know, and you know, abstraction, you know, and you know, hopefully logic, the scientific method, hopefully logic, the scientific method, hopefully logic, the scientific method, you know, intellectual rigor, analytical you know, intellectual rigor, analytical you know, intellectual rigor, analytical rigor. Um rigor. Um rigor. Um it it used to be the case that you could it it used to be the case that you could it it used to be the case that you could kind of really divide these, you know, kind of really divide these, you know, kind of really divide these, you know, in traditional mass media, it used to be in traditional mass media, it used to be in traditional mass media, it used to be the case. You could say that like the case. You could say that like the case. You could say that like newspapers and magazines were written newspapers and magazines were written newspapers and magazines were written and so they would be like more calmer and so they would be like more calmer and so they would be like more calmer and more dispassionate. You could say, and more dispassionate. You could say, and more dispassionate. You could say, you know, television was oral, right? you know, television was oral, right? you know, television was oral, right? right? It was literally people talking right? It was literally people talking right? It was literally people talking and so it was going to be much more and so it was going to be much more and so it was going to be much more emotional and hottheheaded, you know, emotional and hottheheaded, you know, emotional and hottheheaded, you know, basically like you know that that that's basically like you know that that that's basically like you know that that that's all broken down because of everything all broken down because of everything all broken down because of everything we've talked about. Um but the modern we've talked about. Um but the modern we've talked about. Um but the modern version of that is like the internet version of that is like the internet version of that is like the internet like okay is the internet an oral like okay is the internet an oral like okay is the internet an oral culture or a written culture and it culture or a written culture and it culture or a written culture and it turns out the answer is the internet's turns out the answer is the internet's turns out the answer is the internet's both because the internet is everything both because the internet is everything both because the internet is everything right? It's it supports every kind of right? It's it supports every kind of right? It's it supports every kind of media. Um, and so a YouTube video, I media. Um, and so a YouTube video, I media. Um, and so a YouTube video, I will say for sure, a short form Tik Tok will say for sure, a short form Tik Tok will say for sure, a short form Tik Tok or Instagram reel for sure is oral or Instagram reel for sure is oral or Instagram reel for sure is oral culture. Like it's it's something short culture. Like it's it's something short culture. Like it's it's something short and bursty and emotional and and bursty and emotional and and bursty and emotional and interpersonal in its experience. Um, a interpersonal in its experience. Um, a interpersonal in its experience. Um, a long form Substack post is for sure long form Substack post is for sure long form Substack post is for sure written culture. Uh, but then things get written culture. Uh, but then things get written culture. Uh, but then things get more complicated because a short tweet, more complicated because a short tweet, more complicated because a short tweet, even though it's written, is actually an even though it's written, is actually an even though it's written, is actually an oral culture thing, right? Because the oral culture thing, right? Because the oral culture thing, right? Because the fact that it's short means that it has fact that it's short means that it has fact that it's short means that it has to be like this again sort of this burst to be like this again sort of this burst to be like this again sort of this burst of of of sort of say triggering of of of sort of say triggering of of of sort of say triggering emotionality uh in order to go viral. emotionality uh in order to go viral. emotionality uh in order to go viral. So, so actually tweets I would say are So, so actually tweets I would say are So, so actually tweets I would say are oral culture even though they look oral culture even though they look oral culture even though they look written. And then long form podcasts are written. And then long form podcasts are written. And then long form podcasts are actually written culture even though actually written culture even though actually written culture even though they look oral, right? Because if you're they look oral, right? Because if you're they look oral, right? Because if you're going to talk about something for 3 going to talk about something for 3 going to talk about something for 3 hours, like that's necessarily something hours, like that's necessarily something hours, like that's necessarily something where you're kind of getting into where you're kind of getting into where you're kind of getting into abstractions and depth, you know, beyond abstractions and depth, you know, beyond abstractions and depth, you know, beyond just kind of a flash moment of emotion. just kind of a flash moment of emotion. just kind of a flash moment of emotion. Um, and so the internet lets you kind of Um, and so the internet lets you kind of Um, and so the internet lets you kind of play with these formats and and and the play with these formats and and and the play with these formats and and and the kind of impact that you want to have um kind of impact that you want to have um kind of impact that you want to have um in a way that, you know, in in the past in a way that, you know, in in the past in a way that, you know, in in the past was kind of determined by exactly fix was kind of determined by exactly fix was kind of determined by exactly fix which fixed media you were in. And look, which fixed media you were in. And look, which fixed media you were in. And look, we we all live this like if you want to we we all live this like if you want to we we all live this like if you want to have the internet experience of like have the internet experience of like have the internet experience of like doom scrolling and getting really pissed doom scrolling and getting really pissed doom scrolling and getting really pissed off at the world like you go to Tik Tok off at the world like you go to Tik Tok off at the world like you go to Tik Tok at X and you can do that. If you want to at X and you can do that. If you want to at X and you can do that. If you want to like learn a lot of stuff, you can go on like learn a lot of stuff, you can go on like learn a lot of stuff, you can go on Substack and long form YouTube podcast Substack and long form YouTube podcast Substack and long form YouTube podcast and you can live in that world and like and you can live in that world and like and you can live in that world and like you can like you know raise your IQ you can like you know raise your IQ you can like you know raise your IQ point today. Like you know it's point today. Like you know it's point today. Like you know it's absolutely amazing. And so there is a absolutely amazing. And so there is a absolutely amazing. And so there is a choose your own adventure aspect to it. choose your own adventure aspect to it. choose your own adventure aspect to it. Um and um and then of course you know we Um and um and then of course you know we Um and um and then of course you know we you know firms like ours need you know you know firms like ours need you know you know firms like ours need you know need to think hard about how we need to think hard about how we need to think hard about how we communicate because of of the communicate because of of the communicate because of of the differences. differences. differences. I love that as a segue because it just I love that as a segue because it just I love that as a segue because it just emphasizes how different every platform emphasizes how different every platform emphasizes how different every platform is and it's not you know a lot of people is and it's not you know a lot of people is and it's not you know a lot of people or companies will just you know have one or companies will just you know have one or companies will just you know have one idea and then crossost it you know idea and then crossost it you know idea and then crossost it you know across every platform but it it doesn't across every platform but it it doesn't across every platform but it it doesn't fully appreciate um you know what that fully appreciate um you know what that fully appreciate um you know what that platform is built for and what that platform is built for and what that platform is built for and what that platform rewards and so for every platform rewards and so for every platform rewards and so for every platform that we have we have a you know platform that we have we have a you know platform that we have we have a you know Substack podcast Instagram you know uh X Substack podcast Instagram you know uh X Substack podcast Instagram you know uh X YouTube etc we have a expert running it YouTube etc we have a expert running it YouTube etc we have a expert running it who is obsessed best with with that with who is obsessed best with with that with who is obsessed best with with that with that medium. Um, you know, on Instagram, that medium. Um, you know, on Instagram, that medium. Um, you know, on Instagram, we're up 35%, you know, month over month we're up 35%, you know, month over month we're up 35%, you know, month over month right now. We have this guy, Hero, who's right now. We have this guy, Hero, who's right now. We have this guy, Hero, who's uh who's 18 years old and has been, you uh who's 18 years old and has been, you uh who's 18 years old and has been, you know, grew up on on Instagram and and know, grew up on on Instagram and and know, grew up on on Instagram and and knows it like the the back of his hand. knows it like the the back of his hand. knows it like the the back of his hand. Um, and and and that really matters. Um, and and and that really matters. Um, and and and that really matters. That makes a difference. And so with That makes a difference. And so with That makes a difference. And so with with that as a segue, I want to do a uh with that as a segue, I want to do a uh with that as a segue, I want to do a uh share just a few slides that just show share just a few slides that just show share just a few slides that just show um a little bit about what we've uh what um a little bit about what we've uh what um a little bit about what we've uh what we've done so far. Second. we've done so far. Second. we've done so far. Second. So what we're, you know, really trying So what we're, you know, really trying So what we're, you know, really trying to do is uh is is king make our to do is uh is is king make our to do is uh is is king make our companies, right? Is is is give them companies, right? Is is is give them companies, right? Is is is give them such a a superpower in terms of getting such a a superpower in terms of getting such a a superpower in terms of getting their message out, in terms of reaching their message out, in terms of reaching their message out, in terms of reaching their customers, in terms of reaching their customers, in terms of reaching their customers, in terms of reaching their um their talent. Um you know, the their um their talent. Um you know, the their um their talent. Um you know, the superpower that companies like Anderl superpower that companies like Anderl superpower that companies like Anderl have to, you know, punch way above their have to, you know, punch way above their have to, you know, punch way above their their weight class and and and other their weight class and and and other their weight class and and and other brands, you know, wish that they they brands, you know, wish that they they brands, you know, wish that they they had that level of of of resonance, that had that level of of of resonance, that had that level of of of resonance, that level of reach. we're we're, you know, level of reach. we're we're, you know, level of reach. we're we're, you know, trying to give them those superpowers trying to give them those superpowers trying to give them those superpowers and and we do that by by building our and and we do that by by building our and and we do that by by building our own channels, our own, you know, media own channels, our own, you know, media own channels, our own, you know, media empire um ac across platforms. Uh we do empire um ac across platforms. Uh we do empire um ac across platforms. Uh we do that by making sure that we know that by making sure that we know that by making sure that we know everybody else who's got um those uh is everybody else who's got um those uh is everybody else who's got um those uh is my screen paused for some reason? Oh, my screen paused for some reason? Oh, my screen paused for some reason? Oh, screen share. Uh but everybody else who screen share. Uh but everybody else who screen share. Uh but everybody else who who's who's got those powers of who's who's got those powers of who's who's got those powers of distribution and and having great distribution and and having great distribution and and having great relationships with them. Um and then relationships with them. Um and then relationships with them. Um and then also by just uh you know making sure also by just uh you know making sure also by just uh you know making sure that we have the expertise um to be able that we have the expertise um to be able that we have the expertise um to be able to deploy to to to our companies as to deploy to to to our companies as to deploy to to to our companies as well. You know Lulu put this uh put this well. You know Lulu put this uh put this well. You know Lulu put this uh put this well you know that people don't really well you know that people don't really well you know that people don't really invest enough in in in people running invest enough in in in people running invest enough in in in people running these these platforms and um you know these these platforms and um you know these these platforms and um you know we've really uh recruit spent a lot of we've really uh recruit spent a lot of we've really uh recruit spent a lot of time recruiting the the right expert time recruiting the the right expert time recruiting the the right expert talent to to do it. So I'm I'm I'm talent to to do it. So I'm I'm I'm talent to to do it. So I'm I'm I'm stoked because now that we've had them stoked because now that we've had them stoked because now that we've had them build our platforms we're going to build our platforms we're going to build our platforms we're going to deploy them to to work on behalf of our deploy them to to work on behalf of our deploy them to to work on behalf of our companies. Um and so we're we're you companies. Um and so we're we're you companies. Um and so we're we're you know Casser from applied intuition you know Casser from applied intuition you know Casser from applied intuition you know he's he's always been I was an know he's he's always been I was an know he's he's always been I was an angel in Hasser was also known for a angel in Hasser was also known for a angel in Hasser was also known for a while and he's always been complaining while and he's always been complaining while and he's always been complaining of like hey you know why are we not of like hey you know why are we not of like hey you know why are we not valued more or why do we not have more valued more or why do we not have more valued more or why do we not have more resonance why do people you know why is resonance why do people you know why is resonance why do people you know why is everyone talking about other companies everyone talking about other companies everyone talking about other companies not not our company given how good we not not our company given how good we not not our company given how good we are and I I'm said Casser you know are and I I'm said Casser you know are and I I'm said Casser you know you've never tweeted in your life how do you've never tweeted in your life how do you've never tweeted in your life how do you expect to have tremendous tremendous you expect to have tremendous tremendous you expect to have tremendous tremendous mind share and he he finally you know mind share and he he finally you know mind share and he he finally you know thanks to a lot of pushing that that we thanks to a lot of pushing that that we thanks to a lot of pushing that that we did bit the bullet and his First tweet did bit the bullet and his First tweet did bit the bullet and his First tweet got like 4,000 likes and you know the got like 4,000 likes and you know the got like 4,000 likes and you know the first product we have I'll get to in a first product we have I'll get to in a first product we have I'll get to in a second was this launch as a service. Um second was this launch as a service. Um second was this launch as a service. Um the second one is going to be this this the second one is going to be this this the second one is going to be this this founder go direct motion. You know we're founder go direct motion. You know we're founder go direct motion. You know we're working with casser we're working with working with casser we're working with working with casser we're working with Garrett from flock safety. You know that Garrett from flock safety. You know that Garrett from flock safety. You know that that's a heroic company that should be that's a heroic company that should be that's a heroic company that should be at the stature of a and as well and and at the stature of a and as well and and at the stature of a and as well and and really help them build that machine. really help them build that machine. really help them build that machine. So speaking of the launch as a service So speaking of the launch as a service So speaking of the launch as a service offering, this was you know inspired offering, this was you know inspired offering, this was you know inspired early on. I was asking you know some of early on. I was asking you know some of early on. I was asking you know some of the GPS hey what would where could we the GPS hey what would where could we the GPS hey what would where could we make the biggest difference? Like what make the biggest difference? Like what make the biggest difference? Like what new product should should we have and new product should should we have and new product should should we have and you know Syra said if we could guarantee you know Syra said if we could guarantee you know Syra said if we could guarantee a viral announcement you know I I think a viral announcement you know I I think a viral announcement you know I I think that'd be a superpower for us. So so we that'd be a superpower for us. So so we that'd be a superpower for us. So so we built out this this launch as a service built out this this launch as a service built out this this launch as a service um you know everything soup to nuts from um you know everything soup to nuts from um you know everything soup to nuts from from you know all the all the social from you know all the all the social from you know all the all the social media copy the messaging the um you know media copy the messaging the um you know media copy the messaging the um you know the the the roll out. We we created the the the roll out. We we created the the the roll out. We we created these custom videos. You know, we we these custom videos. You know, we we these custom videos. You know, we we hired Richard, another 18-year-old who hired Richard, another 18-year-old who hired Richard, another 18-year-old who uh you know, we convinced him to go uh you know, we convinced him to go uh you know, we convinced him to go straight from high school with the NBA, straight from high school with the NBA, straight from high school with the NBA, i.e. not go to college, at least not i.e. not go to college, at least not i.e. not go to college, at least not right now. And um he uh he had right now. And um he uh he had right now. And um he uh he had previously done the Clulu video uh and previously done the Clulu video uh and previously done the Clulu video uh and um and the browserbased video. And he's um and the browserbased video. And he's um and the browserbased video. And he's just got this, you know, phenomenal um just got this, you know, phenomenal um just got this, you know, phenomenal um taste for for what really does well. And taste for for what really does well. And taste for for what really does well. And so we we built this video team. Richard, so we we built this video team. Richard, so we we built this video team. Richard, Ben, you know, Henry, you know, has Ben, you know, Henry, you know, has Ben, you know, Henry, you know, has really led this led this product. and really led this led this product. and really led this led this product. and and you can see the the views here. It's and you can see the the views here. It's and you can see the the views here. It's it's it's just done phenomenally well. it's it's just done phenomenally well. it's it's just done phenomenally well. Um you know, millions and millions of Um you know, millions and millions of Um you know, millions and millions of views for for our companies. We've now views for for our companies. We've now views for for our companies. We've now scaled up this offering to be to to scaled up this offering to be to to scaled up this offering to be to to offer it to to all all of our companies. offer it to to all all of our companies. offer it to to all all of our companies. And um that that's our first product. And um that that's our first product. And um that that's our first product. After working with companies, companies After working with companies, companies After working with companies, companies were saying, "Hey, you know, how do I were saying, "Hey, you know, how do I were saying, "Hey, you know, how do I hire people like that?" And thus, the hire people like that?" And thus, the hire people like that?" And thus, the new media fellowship was born to to help new media fellowship was born to to help new media fellowship was born to to help us hire them, but also help help our us hire them, but also help help our us hire them, but also help help our companies hire them. And so uh because companies hire them. And so uh because companies hire them. And so uh because you know there's this sweet spot where you know there's this sweet spot where you know there's this sweet spot where you need to be online enough to really you need to be online enough to really you need to be online enough to really know the the the have a taste and and h know the the the have a taste and and h know the the the have a taste and and h have a sensibility and understand these have a sensibility and understand these have a sensibility and understand these new platforms but um you also need to be new platforms but um you also need to be new platforms but um you also need to be functioning enough and professional functioning enough and professional functioning enough and professional enough to work at one of these companies enough to work at one of these companies enough to work at one of these companies and and there not many people can can and and there not many people can can and and there not many people can can can do both. And so we've really um you can do both. And so we've really um you can do both. And so we've really um you know tried to create this this uh this know tried to create this this uh this know tried to create this this uh this program to be able to identify these program to be able to identify these program to be able to identify these people and then just give them a little people and then just give them a little people and then just give them a little bit more sort of technical knowhow. And bit more sort of technical knowhow. And bit more sort of technical knowhow. And so our first fellowship uh we had, you so our first fellowship uh we had, you so our first fellowship uh we had, you know, 2,000 applications. We picked 65 know, 2,000 applications. We picked 65 know, 2,000 applications. We picked 65 people. We think we think they're people. We think we think they're people. We think we think they're incredible. Uh we two hires from usa incredible. Uh we two hires from usa incredible. Uh we two hires from usa came from that so far. Um and we think came from that so far. Um and we think came from that so far. Um and we think this is going to be a franchise um to this is going to be a franchise um to this is going to be a franchise um to come. and and and then the other part of come. and and and then the other part of come. and and and then the other part of it I'll just leave is um you know I it I'll just leave is um you know I it I'll just leave is um you know I think we we're really popularizing this think we we're really popularizing this think we we're really popularizing this term new media seeing a number of people term new media seeing a number of people term new media seeing a number of people with you know new media JDs they they with you know new media JDs they they with you know new media JDs they they want a head of new media you they're want a head of new media you they're want a head of new media you they're they're looking for that and I think they're looking for that and I think they're looking for that and I think we're uh sort of in in the way that we're uh sort of in in the way that we're uh sort of in in the way that we've popularized American dynamism we've popularized American dynamism we've popularized American dynamism other people have American dynamism other people have American dynamism other people have American dynamism practices um we're starting to see that practices um we're starting to see that practices um we're starting to see that with with with newbie and so it's cool with with with newbie and so it's cool with with with newbie and so it's cool to to see our thought leadership there to to see our thought leadership there to to see our thought leadership there um and uh you know more to um and uh you know more to um and uh you know more to more more to come. So, so yeah, those more more to come. So, so yeah, those more more to come. So, so yeah, those are the things I I'll leave you with in are the things I I'll leave you with in are the things I I'll leave you with in our our presentation. The um you know, our our presentation. The um you know, our our presentation. The um you know, our our channels are are up um our our channels are are up um our our channels are are up um tremendously and we're continuing to to tremendously and we're continuing to to tremendously and we're continuing to to invest in them. We um we've got this invest in them. We um we've got this invest in them. We um we've got this portfolio offering launch as a service. portfolio offering launch as a service. portfolio offering launch as a service. We're we're you know, now launching our We're we're you know, now launching our We're we're you know, now launching our go direct motion of really helping our go direct motion of really helping our go direct motion of really helping our our CEOs and companies do that. It has our CEOs and companies do that. It has our CEOs and companies do that. It has to come from the CEO. So, every to come from the CEO. So, every to come from the CEO. So, every engagement we do, the CEO is is engagement we do, the CEO is is engagement we do, the CEO is is tremendously engaged. Um, and then we're tremendously engaged. Um, and then we're tremendously engaged. Um, and then we're really building out this this new media really building out this this new media really building out this this new media category creation, this new media talent category creation, this new media talent category creation, this new media talent base for for us because we're continuing base for for us because we're continuing base for for us because we're continuing to hire. Um, but then also our our our to hire. Um, but then also our our our to hire. Um, but then also our our our companies. companies. companies. >> Yeah. So, Ben, any closing thoughts? Um >> Yeah. So, Ben, any closing thoughts? Um >> Yeah. So, Ben, any closing thoughts? Um I I would just say that uh you know I I would just say that uh you know I I would just say that uh you know particular if you spent time in uh the particular if you spent time in uh the particular if you spent time in uh the prior media regime um you know of old prior media regime um you know of old prior media regime um you know of old media media media you know you really have to rethink you know you really have to rethink you know you really have to rethink every instinct that you have because every instinct that you have because every instinct that you have because it's it's one of the it's it's one of the it's it's one of the weirdest things where all your instincts weirdest things where all your instincts weirdest things where all your instincts are wrong. I mean, we're actually are wrong. I mean, we're actually are wrong. I mean, we're actually experiencing a little bit of this in AI, experiencing a little bit of this in AI, experiencing a little bit of this in AI, too, which you know, Martine wrote a too, which you know, Martine wrote a too, which you know, Martine wrote a great post on, which is like in the old great post on, which is like in the old great post on, which is like in the old world of software, the one thing you world of software, the one thing you world of software, the one thing you knew is you couldn't throw money at a knew is you couldn't throw money at a knew is you couldn't throw money at a problem, and now you can throw money at problem, and now you can throw money at problem, and now you can throw money at a problem. And so, like you don't even a problem. And so, like you don't even a problem. And so, like you don't even realize how much of your thinking is realize how much of your thinking is realize how much of your thinking is affected by that old rule. Um, and you affected by that old rule. Um, and you affected by that old rule. Um, and you know, I would say this is that in spades know, I would say this is that in spades know, I would say this is that in spades where like every single instinct you where like every single instinct you where like every single instinct you have is incorrect if you're in this have is incorrect if you're in this have is incorrect if you're in this world and you just have to let it all world and you just have to let it all world and you just have to let it all go. And this is why, you know, this is go. And this is why, you know, this is go. And this is why, you know, this is people lament, oh, like the right-wing people lament, oh, like the right-wing people lament, oh, like the right-wing built this big podcast network and blah built this big podcast network and blah built this big podcast network and blah blah. That's not what happened. What blah. That's not what happened. What blah. That's not what happened. What happened is Trump just understood new happened is Trump just understood new happened is Trump just understood new media for whatever. I don't know why he media for whatever. I don't know why he media for whatever. I don't know why he did cuz he's so old and he's been in old did cuz he's so old and he's been in old did cuz he's so old and he's been in old media the whole time, but like he just media the whole time, but like he just media the whole time, but like he just rolled right into it. And you know, not rolled right into it. And you know, not rolled right into it. And you know, not at a technological level, but as a media at a technological level, but as a media at a technological level, but as a media uh as a medium. And I think that uh you uh as a medium. And I think that uh you uh as a medium. And I think that uh you know, we've got to do that. We have to know, we've got to do that. We have to know, we've got to do that. We have to understand it. Uh and and we have to understand it. Uh and and we have to understand it. Uh and and we have to kind of play by the new rules. Uh all my kind of play by the new rules. Uh all my kind of play by the new rules. Uh all my favorite comedians, podcasters, etc. favorite comedians, podcasters, etc. favorite comedians, podcasters, etc. always tell their guests, "Don't read always tell their guests, "Don't read always tell their guests, "Don't read the comments." the comments." the comments." >> Uh what do you guys think? Do the manic >> Uh what do you guys think? Do the manic >> Uh what do you guys think? Do the manic Reddit posters drive you nuts? I have Reddit posters drive you nuts? I have Reddit posters drive you nuts? I have not dived into our podcast comment not dived into our podcast comment not dived into our podcast comment section, but I have seen a 16Z rage on section, but I have seen a 16Z rage on section, but I have seen a 16Z rage on Reddit. Not surprising. Uh, for what Reddit. Not surprising. Uh, for what Reddit. Not surprising. Uh, for what it's worth, every technical conference it's worth, every technical conference it's worth, every technical conference I've been at while A16Z has always had I've been at while A16Z has always had I've been at while A16Z has always had an A16Z fanboy raving about our podcast. an A16Z fanboy raving about our podcast. an A16Z fanboy raving about our podcast. Um, yeah. So, Eric, read the contents or Um, yeah. So, Eric, read the contents or Um, yeah. So, Eric, read the contents or read the comments. Don't read the read the comments. Don't read the read the comments. Don't read the comments. comments. comments. >> Uh, don't read the comments if they're >> Uh, don't read the comments if they're >> Uh, don't read the comments if they're going to affect what you say. Um, it's going to affect what you say. Um, it's going to affect what you say. Um, it's it's kind of like the Yelp pro. people it's kind of like the Yelp pro. people it's kind of like the Yelp pro. people who care enough to post either either who care enough to post either either who care enough to post either either absolutely love it or absolutely hate absolutely love it or absolutely hate absolutely love it or absolutely hate it. And we we've definitely got at this it. And we we've definitely got at this it. And we we've definitely got at this point I I I it doesn't affect me. So I I point I I I it doesn't affect me. So I I point I I I it doesn't affect me. So I I read the comments, but uh you know I um read the comments, but uh you know I um read the comments, but uh you know I um I well you know and Mark Ben have helped I well you know and Mark Ben have helped I well you know and Mark Ben have helped me not uh not get too concerned about me not uh not get too concerned about me not uh not get too concerned about some of the some of the commentary on some of the some of the commentary on some of the some of the commentary on Twitter by you know certain anonymous uh Twitter by you know certain anonymous uh Twitter by you know certain anonymous uh Twitter posters who who uh you know Twitter posters who who uh you know Twitter posters who who uh you know raging in their basements etc. But uh raging in their basements etc. But uh raging in their basements etc. But uh yeah in short don't read the comments. yeah in short don't read the comments. yeah in short don't read the comments. >> Yeah. So I'll just I'll I'll just maybe >> Yeah. So I'll just I'll I'll just maybe >> Yeah. So I'll just I'll I'll just maybe close on on on two things. Um so one is close on on on two things. Um so one is close on on on two things. Um so one is um uh there's a long history of this and um uh there's a long history of this and um uh there's a long history of this and so uh if you read any sort of biography so uh if you read any sort of biography so uh if you read any sort of biography or autobiography of any sort of or autobiography of any sort of or autobiography of any sort of professional author, you know, um uh you professional author, you know, um uh you professional author, you know, um uh you know, who writes writes books for a know, who writes writes books for a know, who writes writes books for a living that like 100% of the time at living that like 100% of the time at living that like 100% of the time at some point they will tell you, "Oh, the some point they will tell you, "Oh, the some point they will tell you, "Oh, the one thing I never do is read read the one thing I never do is read read the one thing I never do is read read the read the critics, right? I never read read the critics, right? I never read read the critics, right? I never read the reviews." Um and then and then the reviews." Um and then and then the reviews." Um and then and then they'll say, "Well, actually, no, that's they'll say, "Well, actually, no, that's they'll say, "Well, actually, no, that's not true. I always read the reviews." Um not true. I always read the reviews." Um not true. I always read the reviews." Um cuz I know I shouldn't, right? Like I cuz I know I shouldn't, right? Like I cuz I know I shouldn't, right? Like I know I shouldn't. I know I shouldn't know I shouldn't. I know I shouldn't know I shouldn't. I know I shouldn't because like critics like by definition because like critics like by definition because like critics like by definition are like, you know, basically bitter, are like, you know, basically bitter, are like, you know, basically bitter, you know, bitter people. Um uh you know, you know, bitter people. Um uh you know, you know, bitter people. Um uh you know, who aren't who aren't writing novels or who aren't who aren't writing novels or who aren't who aren't writing novels or whatever. And so of course they're going whatever. And so of course they're going whatever. And so of course they're going to be mad. Um um and and I know I to be mad. Um um and and I know I to be mad. Um um and and I know I shouldn't read it. I know it's very bad shouldn't read it. I know it's very bad shouldn't read it. I know it's very bad for me. I know it's going to really for me. I know it's going to really for me. I know it's going to really screw me up. Um and and then I I try and screw me up. Um and and then I I try and screw me up. Um and and then I I try and then it's like a magnetic pull. I I then it's like a magnetic pull. I I then it's like a magnetic pull. I I always end up reading them, you know, always end up reading them, you know, always end up reading them, you know, because it's like 3 in the morning and I because it's like 3 in the morning and I because it's like 3 in the morning and I can't resist. And then I always end up can't resist. And then I always end up can't resist. And then I always end up getting mad. Um and so there there you getting mad. Um and so there there you getting mad. Um and so there there you know there is this push and and it used know there is this push and and it used know there is this push and and it used to be right only professional authors or to be right only professional authors or to be right only professional authors or professional filmmakers or whatever had professional filmmakers or whatever had professional filmmakers or whatever had critics right reviews and now basically critics right reviews and now basically critics right reviews and now basically right the entire the entire world is a right the entire the entire world is a right the entire the entire world is a critic and so I I think we all we all we critic and so I I think we all we all we critic and so I I think we all we all we all we we all kind of have that it's all we we all kind of have that it's all we we all kind of have that it's it's a little bit of a it's a little bit it's a little bit of a it's a little bit it's a little bit of a it's a little bit of a push and a pull um and so um uh of a push and a pull um and so um uh of a push and a pull um and so um uh that is a that is a little bit a little that is a that is a little bit a little that is a that is a little bit a little bit difficult um you know I will say I I bit difficult um you know I will say I I bit difficult um you know I will say I I think maybe a thing to kind of bear in think maybe a thing to kind of bear in think maybe a thing to kind of bear in mind um I I couldn't resist I posted a mind um I I couldn't resist I posted a mind um I I couldn't resist I posted a link to it another book on this topic link to it another book on this topic link to it another book on this topic with that has a great title called Kill with that has a great title called Kill with that has a great title called Kill all normies all normies all normies Um, and it's this a book actually from Um, and it's this a book actually from Um, and it's this a book actually from like a decade ago that talked about like like a decade ago that talked about like like a decade ago that talked about like this kind of very angry internet this kind of very angry internet this kind of very angry internet culture. You know, they kind of culture. You know, they kind of culture. You know, they kind of developed after the 2000s. Um, and um, developed after the 2000s. Um, and um, developed after the 2000s. Um, and um, because by the way, the internet was not because by the way, the internet was not because by the way, the internet was not always like this. Like in the in the always like this. Like in the in the always like this. Like in the in the very very early days, the internet was very very early days, the internet was very very early days, the internet was so hard to get on to that the only so hard to get on to that the only so hard to get on to that the only people who were on the internet were people who were on the internet were people who were on the internet were like basically super basically like like basically super basically like like basically super basically like smart super successful people. smart super successful people. smart super successful people. >> Yeah. News groups were really good then. >> Yeah. News groups were really good then. >> Yeah. News groups were really good then. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like pre-193 news groups >> Yeah. Yeah. Like pre-193 news groups >> Yeah. Yeah. Like pre-193 news groups were like utopia. Um and then uh and were like utopia. Um and then uh and were like utopia. Um and then uh and then uh and then sort of post 1993 then uh and then sort of post 1993 then uh and then sort of post 1993 things started going sideways and then things started going sideways and then things started going sideways and then things start the the modern kind of things start the the modern kind of things start the the modern kind of costic internet culture really developed costic internet culture really developed costic internet culture really developed in the in the 2000s and 2010s. Um but in the in the 2000s and 2010s. Um but in the in the 2000s and 2010s. Um but but basically it like it actually turns but basically it like it actually turns but basically it like it actually turns out there's like a a genealogy to it. out there's like a a genealogy to it. out there's like a a genealogy to it. And it actually turns out like a lot of And it actually turns out like a lot of And it actually turns out like a lot of it is literally literally it's um it's it is literally literally it's um it's it is literally literally it's um it's like Call of Duty lobbies um uh for like Call of Duty lobbies um uh for like Call of Duty lobbies um uh for online gaming. So, it's like literally online gaming. So, it's like literally online gaming. So, it's like literally like online gaming lobbies. Um cuz like like online gaming lobbies. Um cuz like like online gaming lobbies. Um cuz like when the Xbox and the PlayStation, you when the Xbox and the PlayStation, you when the Xbox and the PlayStation, you know, kind of rolled out uh voice uh you know, kind of rolled out uh voice uh you know, kind of rolled out uh voice uh you know, voice interaction for the first know, voice interaction for the first know, voice interaction for the first time, you know, they're like, "Oh, it'd time, you know, they're like, "Oh, it'd time, you know, they're like, "Oh, it'd be great for players to be able to talk be great for players to be able to talk be great for players to be able to talk to each other." And it turns out you to each other." And it turns out you to each other." And it turns out you just get like, you know, 12-year-old just get like, you know, 12-year-old just get like, you know, 12-year-old boys in these lobbies just like torching boys in these lobbies just like torching boys in these lobbies just like torching the [ __ ] you know, out of everybody and the [ __ ] you know, out of everybody and the [ __ ] you know, out of everybody and and and literally trying to get under and and literally trying to get under and and literally trying to get under their opponent's skin and and then being their opponent's skin and and then being their opponent's skin and and then being willing to, you know, anonymously say willing to, you know, anonymously say willing to, you know, anonymously say absolutely anything to do it. Um right. absolutely anything to do it. Um right. absolutely anything to do it. Um right. And so that led to, you know, you know, And so that led to, you know, you know, And so that led to, you know, you know, very very coarse, very vulgar, very very very coarse, very vulgar, very very very coarse, very vulgar, very offensive, you know, kind of thing. And offensive, you know, kind of thing. And offensive, you know, kind of thing. And then that, you know, kind of flipped, then that, you know, kind of flipped, then that, you know, kind of flipped, you know, that kind of culture kind of you know, that kind of culture kind of you know, that kind of culture kind of expanded into early internet forums like expanded into early internet forums like expanded into early internet forums like something awful. And then it started something awful. And then it started something awful. And then it started metastasizing into things like um, you metastasizing into things like um, you metastasizing into things like um, you know, like YouTube comments. Um, uh, and know, like YouTube comments. Um, uh, and know, like YouTube comments. Um, uh, and then, you know, and then obviously then, you know, and then obviously then, you know, and then obviously social media kind of blew that open. And social media kind of blew that open. And social media kind of blew that open. And so, um, there is this um, uh, you know, so, um, there is this um, uh, you know, so, um, there is this um, uh, you know, there there is this kind of, you know, I there there is this kind of, you know, I there there is this kind of, you know, I don't know, like rage undercurrent to don't know, like rage undercurrent to don't know, like rage undercurrent to everything. Um, and I guess it just say, everything. Um, and I guess it just say, everything. Um, and I guess it just say, you know, you just got you do kind of you know, you just got you do kind of you know, you just got you do kind of literally have to think about it. These literally have to think about it. These literally have to think about it. These are people literally in their in their are people literally in their in their are people literally in their in their in their parents' basement. And by the in their parents' basement. And by the in their parents' basement. And by the way, you know, the other thing is way, you know, the other thing is way, you know, the other thing is generally when we get attacked on the generally when we get attacked on the generally when we get attacked on the comments or or stuff like that, it's comments or or stuff like that, it's comments or or stuff like that, it's somebody with like four followers or somebody with like four followers or somebody with like four followers or like a bot or something like that. So like a bot or something like that. So like a bot or something like that. So yeah, yeah, yeah, >> that's by the way that that includes >> that's by the way that that includes >> that's by the way that that includes when it's when it's when it's >> a little interesting to read in them, I >> a little interesting to read in them, I >> a little interesting to read in them, I would say. would say. would say. >> Yeah. And that includes when it's Hey, >> Yeah. And that includes when it's Hey, >> Yeah. And that includes when it's Hey, Montre. Montre. Montre. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes.