Inside the Iran War and the Pentagon's Feud with Anthropic with Under Secretary of War Emil Michael

All right everybody, emergency podcast All right everybody, emergency podcast time. Episode 263 of All-In. We have time. Episode 263 of All-In. We have time. Episode 263 of All-In. We have Emil Michael, the under secretary of war Emil Michael, the under secretary of war Emil Michael, the under secretary of war for research and engineering working for research and engineering working for research and engineering working directly for Pete Hexa. We had to get directly for Pete Hexa. We had to get directly for Pete Hexa. We had to get this out to you on Thursday night this out to you on Thursday night this out to you on Thursday night because it is an emergency pod. One of because it is an emergency pod. One of because it is an emergency pod. One of my old besties. Emil Michael is here. my old besties. Emil Michael is here. my old besties. Emil Michael is here. Emil and I uh were part of team Uber Emil and I uh were part of team Uber Emil and I uh were part of team Uber back in the day. He was Travis's back in the day. He was Travis's back in the day. He was Travis's right-hand man. Some might say fixer. right-hand man. Some might say fixer. right-hand man. Some might say fixer. And Emil Michael is now the under And Emil Michael is now the under And Emil Michael is now the under secretary for war secretary for war secretary for war here in the United States, serving his here in the United States, serving his here in the United States, serving his country like our bestie David Sachs. country like our bestie David Sachs. country like our bestie David Sachs. Welcome to the program for the first Welcome to the program for the first Welcome to the program for the first time. Neil Michael, how you doing, time. Neil Michael, how you doing, time. Neil Michael, how you doing, brother? brother? brother? >> I'm doing good. Uh I hope it was more >> I'm doing good. Uh I hope it was more >> I'm doing good. Uh I hope it was more than a fixer, but you know, than a fixer, but you know, than a fixer, but you know, >> raising 20 billion fixer. I mean, you >> raising 20 billion fixer. I mean, you >> raising 20 billion fixer. I mean, you got it done. You got it done. The got it done. You got it done. The got it done. You got it done. The hardest. He would give you the hardest hardest. He would give you the hardest hardest. He would give you the hardest things. Yeah. Just things. Yeah. Just things. Yeah. Just >> That's right. Fair enough. >> That's right. Fair enough. >> That's right. Fair enough. >> If it was hard, and that's what a fixer >> If it was hard, and that's what a fixer >> If it was hard, and that's what a fixer is. is. is. >> An operational axe. That's what they >> An operational axe. That's what they >> An operational axe. That's what they call them. call them. call them. >> All right. Sure. Uh, in Brooklyn, we >> All right. Sure. Uh, in Brooklyn, we >> All right. Sure. Uh, in Brooklyn, we call them fixers. With us again, call them fixers. With us again, call them fixers. With us again, >> a rain maker. >> a rain maker. >> a rain maker. >> There's that, too. There's that, too. >> There's that, too. There's that, too. >> There's that, too. There's that, too. Making it happen. With us again. Chim Making it happen. With us again. Chim Making it happen. With us again. Chim Polyhapatia. How are you, brother? Polyhapatia. How are you, brother? Polyhapatia. How are you, brother? >> Great. >> Great. >> Great. >> Yeah. Look at that smile. What do you >> Yeah. Look at that smile. What do you >> Yeah. Look at that smile. What do you got going on? You got some pokers in the got going on? You got some pokers in the got going on? You got some pokers in the fire. fire. fire. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I'm not going to say in the coming >> I'm not going to say in the coming >> I'm not going to say in the coming weeks, I think some news is going to weeks, I think some news is going to weeks, I think some news is going to drop. That's my prediction. I don't have drop. That's my prediction. I don't have drop. That's my prediction. I don't have any. any. any. >> Are you loving tweet mogging that's been >> Are you loving tweet mogging that's been >> Are you loving tweet mogging that's been going on this week? So good. So good. going on this week? So good. So good. going on this week? So good. So good. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> So good. >> So good. >> So good. >> He's looks maxing by default, but he's >> He's looks maxing by default, but he's >> He's looks maxing by default, but he's been mogging been mogging been mogging >> the Gooners. >> the Gooners. >> the Gooners. >> Yeah. So funny. What was your favorite? >> Yeah. So funny. What was your favorite? >> Yeah. So funny. What was your favorite? >> The one I sent you this morning that you >> The one I sent you this morning that you >> The one I sent you this morning that you said. What did you say? So funny. said. What did you say? So funny. said. What did you say? So funny. >> Are you collecting your losses? Tax >> Are you collecting your losses? Tax >> Are you collecting your losses? Tax harvesting. harvesting. harvesting. >> What did you say? Oh my god. >> What did you say? Oh my god. >> What did you say? Oh my god. >> Chimat said uh Oh my god. It was just >> Chimat said uh Oh my god. It was just >> Chimat said uh Oh my god. It was just like Yes, I did. Yes, I did. like Yes, I did. Yes, I did. like Yes, I did. Yes, I did. >> Yes, I did. Yes. Someone said something >> Yes, I did. Yes. Someone said something >> Yes, I did. Yes. Someone said something to Chabat. He's like dropped in. Why is to Chabat. He's like dropped in. Why is to Chabat. He's like dropped in. Why is everyone so mad at Jamoth? All he did everyone so mad at Jamoth? All he did everyone so mad at Jamoth? All he did was lose billions in retail investors was lose billions in retail investors was lose billions in retail investors money by proep one page spaxs. It's not money by proep one page spaxs. It's not money by proep one page spaxs. It's not like he then told them to enjoy their like he then told them to enjoy their like he then told them to enjoy their capital losses or anything. Give the man capital losses or anything. Give the man capital losses or anything. Give the man a break. Jama's response. Yes, I did. a break. Jama's response. Yes, I did. a break. Jama's response. Yes, I did. >> All right. Piling on is your sultan of >> All right. Piling on is your sultan of >> All right. Piling on is your sultan of science. Everybody's favorite. Had a science. Everybody's favorite. Had a science. Everybody's favorite. Had a great great great >> some great science that he brought to >> some great science that he brought to >> some great science that he brought to the show last week. Freedberg, how are the show last week. Freedberg, how are the show last week. Freedberg, how are you doing? you doing? you doing? >> Oh, yeah. I've been traveling this week >> Oh, yeah. I've been traveling this week >> Oh, yeah. I've been traveling this week back at home. back at home. back at home. >> All right. Sax is out today. He's very >> All right. Sax is out today. He's very >> All right. Sax is out today. He's very busy on Capitol Hill. We'll talk about busy on Capitol Hill. We'll talk about busy on Capitol Hill. We'll talk about what he's up to next week. what he's up to next week. what he's up to next week. >> Let's go. Come on. Let's go. Let's go. >> Let's go. Come on. Let's go. Let's go. >> Let's go. Come on. Let's go. Let's go. >> Let's go. Go, Jason. >> Let's go. Go, Jason. >> Let's go. Go, Jason. >> All right. The US and Israel launched a >> All right. The US and Israel launched a >> All right. The US and Israel launched a joint attack on Iran on Saturday. Today joint attack on Iran on Saturday. Today joint attack on Iran on Saturday. Today is day six of Operation Epic Fury. Iran is day six of Operation Epic Fury. Iran is day six of Operation Epic Fury. Iran Supreme Leader Ali Hameni Supreme Leader Ali Hameni Supreme Leader Ali Hameni was killed within hours of the was killed within hours of the was killed within hours of the operation. 40 senior officials have also operation. 40 senior officials have also operation. 40 senior officials have also been killed. Death toll so far. About a been killed. Death toll so far. About a been killed. Death toll so far. About a thousand people according to reports. thousand people according to reports. thousand people according to reports. Tragically, six US Army Reserve soldiers Tragically, six US Army Reserve soldiers Tragically, six US Army Reserve soldiers were killed following a drone strike on were killed following a drone strike on were killed following a drone strike on a base in Kuwait. A US submarine sank an a base in Kuwait. A US submarine sank an a base in Kuwait. A US submarine sank an Iranian ship off the coast of Sri Lanka. Iranian ship off the coast of Sri Lanka. Iranian ship off the coast of Sri Lanka. This is the first torpedo kill since This is the first torpedo kill since This is the first torpedo kill since World War II. Why were at war been a bit World War II. Why were at war been a bit World War II. Why were at war been a bit of a moving target in a debate. First of a moving target in a debate. First of a moving target in a debate. First explanation from Rubio. He said Israel explanation from Rubio. He said Israel explanation from Rubio. He said Israel was going to attack and the US had no was going to attack and the US had no was going to attack and the US had no choice but to participate. Later walked choice but to participate. Later walked choice but to participate. Later walked that back. Trump made it clear this is that back. Trump made it clear this is that back. Trump made it clear this is not a regime change effort, but we're not a regime change effort, but we're not a regime change effort, but we're doing this to stop terrorism and the doing this to stop terrorism and the doing this to stop terrorism and the development of ICBMs by obviously a development of ICBMs by obviously a development of ICBMs by obviously a pretty crazy group of individuals and pretty crazy group of individuals and pretty crazy group of individuals and obviously nuclear bombs which we blew up obviously nuclear bombs which we blew up obviously nuclear bombs which we blew up a couple weeks ago. Trump also mentioned a couple weeks ago. Trump also mentioned a couple weeks ago. Trump also mentioned the people of Iran should seize the the people of Iran should seize the the people of Iran should seize the moment quote and take their country moment quote and take their country moment quote and take their country back. Pegsth believe is sure boss meal back. Pegsth believe is sure boss meal back. Pegsth believe is sure boss meal said quote this is not a so-called said quote this is not a so-called said quote this is not a so-called regime change war but the regime sure regime change war but the regime sure regime change war but the regime sure did change and the world is better off did change and the world is better off did change and the world is better off for it so here's an interesting poly for it so here's an interesting poly for it so here's an interesting poly market right now US forces enter Iran market right now US forces enter Iran market right now US forces enter Iran this is boots on the ground by the end this is boots on the ground by the end this is boots on the ground by the end of March 40% chance by the end of the of March 40% chance by the end of the of March 40% chance by the end of the year 59% chance so the idea that we're year 59% chance so the idea that we're year 59% chance so the idea that we're not going to have boots on the ground not going to have boots on the ground not going to have boots on the ground the sharps on poly market believe we the sharps on poly market believe we the sharps on poly market believe we will will the Iranian regime fall by will will the Iranian regime fall by will will the Iranian regime fall by June 30th 39% chance according poly June 30th 39% chance according poly June 30th 39% chance according poly market and by the end of the year 51% market and by the end of the year 51% market and by the end of the year 51% chance so Emil I guess there are two chance so Emil I guess there are two chance so Emil I guess there are two questions people really want to know questions people really want to know questions people really want to know I'll leave off why we're doing this I I'll leave off why we're doing this I I'll leave off why we're doing this I think President Trump has been pretty think President Trump has been pretty think President Trump has been pretty clear now but how long is this going to clear now but how long is this going to clear now but how long is this going to take is the one question and are we take is the one question and are we take is the one question and are we going to have to have boots on the going to have to have boots on the going to have to have boots on the ground maybe what is success here ground maybe what is success here ground maybe what is success here >> um I think the the president tal talked >> um I think the the president tal talked >> um I think the the president tal talked about this is a weeks not months kind of about this is a weeks not months kind of about this is a weeks not months kind of operation and it's aimed at essentially operation and it's aimed at essentially operation and it's aimed at essentially disarming the the regime uh or the disarming the the regime uh or the disarming the the regime uh or the country from uh in such a way that they country from uh in such a way that they country from uh in such a way that they can't supply Hezbollah, Hamas, um Muslim can't supply Hezbollah, Hamas, um Muslim can't supply Hezbollah, Hamas, um Muslim Brotherhood, all the kind of terror Brotherhood, all the kind of terror Brotherhood, all the kind of terror groups that get sponsored by weapons and groups that get sponsored by weapons and groups that get sponsored by weapons and money from Iran, not to mention the money from Iran, not to mention the money from Iran, not to mention the nuclear bit. And that's why you see from nuclear bit. And that's why you see from nuclear bit. And that's why you see from the reporting they're going after the the reporting they're going after the the reporting they're going after the depots the the you know we went after depots the the you know we went after depots the the you know we went after nuclear sites before they're a nuclear sites before they're a nuclear sites before they're a prodigious drone maker. These like huge prodigious drone maker. These like huge prodigious drone maker. These like huge one-way attack drones that can go hund one-way attack drones that can go hund one-way attack drones that can go hund you know hundreds and hundreds of miles. you know hundreds and hundreds of miles. you know hundreds and hundreds of miles. Um lots of ballistic missiles uh that Um lots of ballistic missiles uh that Um lots of ballistic missiles uh that are aimed at every country in the Middle are aimed at every country in the Middle are aimed at every country in the Middle East as you've seen they've attacked East as you've seen they've attacked East as you've seen they've attacked them. So them. So them. So I think that's one. In terms of boots on I think that's one. In terms of boots on I think that's one. In terms of boots on the ground, there's no scenario where we the ground, there's no scenario where we the ground, there's no scenario where we have some protracted boots on the ground have some protracted boots on the ground have some protracted boots on the ground Afghanistan, Iraq 2 like scenario. Afghanistan, Iraq 2 like scenario. Afghanistan, Iraq 2 like scenario. >> Freeberg, your thoughts on this war. >> Freeberg, your thoughts on this war. >> Freeberg, your thoughts on this war. Obviously, a lot of people voted for Obviously, a lot of people voted for Obviously, a lot of people voted for Trump in order to have the peace Trump in order to have the peace Trump in order to have the peace dividend that he was in his first term, dividend that he was in his first term, dividend that he was in his first term, absolutely the peace president. And now absolutely the peace president. And now absolutely the peace president. And now here we are. Eight countries have been here we are. Eight countries have been here we are. Eight countries have been bombed and we've had two leaders deposed bombed and we've had two leaders deposed bombed and we've had two leaders deposed and one of those two have been killed. and one of those two have been killed. and one of those two have been killed. Your thoughts, Freeberg? Your thoughts, Freeberg? Your thoughts, Freeberg? >> I think the president and the >> I think the president and the >> I think the president and the administration have probably the biggest administration have probably the biggest administration have probably the biggest meetings of the term coming up in China meetings of the term coming up in China meetings of the term coming up in China in April. My in April. My in April. My estimation based on the conversations estimation based on the conversations estimation based on the conversations and the comments made by the president and the comments made by the president and the comments made by the president before he came into office and since before he came into office and since before he came into office and since he's been in office is that finding a he's been in office is that finding a he's been in office is that finding a grand bargain or a deal with China is grand bargain or a deal with China is grand bargain or a deal with China is probably one of his top priorities. And probably one of his top priorities. And probably one of his top priorities. And if you think about the importance of if you think about the importance of if you think about the importance of that, is the US going to wade into a that, is the US going to wade into a that, is the US going to wade into a giant global conflict led by a US China giant global conflict led by a US China giant global conflict led by a US China rift or is the US going to find some rift or is the US going to find some rift or is the US going to find some grand bargain? I think he would probably grand bargain? I think he would probably grand bargain? I think he would probably have a preference for the grand bargain. have a preference for the grand bargain. have a preference for the grand bargain. And that being the case, I think you And that being the case, I think you And that being the case, I think you could look at the in the context of could look at the in the context of could look at the in the context of Maduro and the actions in Iran as Maduro and the actions in Iran as Maduro and the actions in Iran as creating maximal leverage going into creating maximal leverage going into creating maximal leverage going into those negotiations that those negotiations that those negotiations that >> the reason for that free bird >> the reason for that free bird >> the reason for that free bird >> 90% of the oil that comes out of Iran >> 90% of the oil that comes out of Iran >> 90% of the oil that comes out of Iran goes to China goes to China goes to China and there's been a long developing and and there's been a long developing and and there's been a long developing and developed relationship between Maduro's developed relationship between Maduro's developed relationship between Maduro's government and China and these are big government and China and these are big government and China and these are big economic drivers or support the economic economic drivers or support the economic economic drivers or support the economic driving in China. So creating leverage driving in China. So creating leverage driving in China. So creating leverage by having significant influence or by having significant influence or by having significant influence or damage or destruction to those supply damage or destruction to those supply damage or destruction to those supply chains for China gives the United States chains for China gives the United States chains for China gives the United States footing to be able to negotiate a better footing to be able to negotiate a better footing to be able to negotiate a better deal for America. I would imagine that deal for America. I would imagine that deal for America. I would imagine that the president's intention here isn't to the president's intention here isn't to the president's intention here isn't to go and decide who should be in charge go and decide who should be in charge go and decide who should be in charge and drive regime change and end in a and drive regime change and end in a and drive regime change and end in a multi-year conflict with Iran. But multi-year conflict with Iran. But multi-year conflict with Iran. But ultimately, if there's some transaction ultimately, if there's some transaction ultimately, if there's some transaction with China that gets everyone out of with China that gets everyone out of with China that gets everyone out of this and puts the US on a strong footing this and puts the US on a strong footing this and puts the US on a strong footing where American businesses can sell into where American businesses can sell into where American businesses can sell into China, which is very challenging as China, which is very challenging as China, which is very challenging as everyone knows today. And there's everyone knows today. And there's everyone knows today. And there's parity, regulatory par, economic and parity, regulatory par, economic and parity, regulatory par, economic and trade parity between the US and China. trade parity between the US and China. trade parity between the US and China. there's a point of view on what happens there's a point of view on what happens there's a point of view on what happens with Taiwan and availability of key with Taiwan and availability of key with Taiwan and availability of key technologies like semiconductors. I technologies like semiconductors. I technologies like semiconductors. I think it could be a win-win and I think think it could be a win-win and I think think it could be a win-win and I think that a deal with China could be the that a deal with China could be the that a deal with China could be the crowning achievement of this crowning achievement of this crowning achievement of this administration particularly going into administration particularly going into administration particularly going into the midterms. So the timing is right and the midterms. So the timing is right and the midterms. So the timing is right and I think that's probably a core part of I think that's probably a core part of I think that's probably a core part of the motivation here. Chimath, your the motivation here. Chimath, your the motivation here. Chimath, your thoughts on this action and why we're thoughts on this action and why we're thoughts on this action and why we're doing it. You've heard obviously the doing it. You've heard obviously the doing it. You've heard obviously the president has his position. We're not president has his position. We're not president has his position. We're not doing regime change. It's a secondary doing regime change. It's a secondary doing regime change. It's a secondary effect obviously, but we want to stop effect obviously, but we want to stop effect obviously, but we want to stop those ICBMs and nuclear bombs from being those ICBMs and nuclear bombs from being those ICBMs and nuclear bombs from being developed and we want to stop terrorism. developed and we want to stop terrorism. developed and we want to stop terrorism. Additionally, Freeberg says, "Hey, we're Additionally, Freeberg says, "Hey, we're Additionally, Freeberg says, "Hey, we're framing this great, you know, discussion framing this great, you know, discussion framing this great, you know, discussion we're going to have with she and China we're going to have with she and China we're going to have with she and China and oil is part of that." Where where do and oil is part of that." Where where do and oil is part of that." Where where do you think you stand on all this? you think you stand on all this? you think you stand on all this? >> I'll build on both what Emil said and >> I'll build on both what Emil said and >> I'll build on both what Emil said and what Freeberg said. I don't think this what Freeberg said. I don't think this what Freeberg said. I don't think this is about regime change and I don't think is about regime change and I don't think is about regime change and I don't think it's about a local regional conflict. I it's about a local regional conflict. I it's about a local regional conflict. I think if you take a step back and zoom think if you take a step back and zoom think if you take a step back and zoom out, the most important thing that we out, the most important thing that we out, the most important thing that we did in the last 3 months was by taking did in the last 3 months was by taking did in the last 3 months was by taking out Maduro and by taking out the Iranian out Maduro and by taking out the Iranian out Maduro and by taking out the Iranian leadership, we have created enormous leadership, we have created enormous leadership, we have created enormous leverage as Freedberg said leverage as Freedberg said leverage as Freedberg said with China. Now, why is that important? with China. Now, why is that important? with China. Now, why is that important? Because I think all of this centers Because I think all of this centers Because I think all of this centers around that geopolitical discussion. around that geopolitical discussion. around that geopolitical discussion. Last night, something important Last night, something important Last night, something important happened, which is that the official happened, which is that the official happened, which is that the official Chinese Chinese Chinese bureaucracy posted what their GDP bureaucracy posted what their GDP bureaucracy posted what their GDP targets were, and it was shocking to targets were, and it was shocking to targets were, and it was shocking to anybody reading it because what we saw anybody reading it because what we saw anybody reading it because what we saw was that they guided to a range of 4.5 was that they guided to a range of 4.5 was that they guided to a range of 4.5 to 5%. to 5%. to 5%. which if you look at the historical which if you look at the historical which if you look at the historical context of that growth is the lowest context of that growth is the lowest context of that growth is the lowest that it has ever been in about 30 years. that it has ever been in about 30 years. that it has ever been in about 30 years. So three decades. So before they entered So three decades. So before they entered So three decades. So before they entered the WTO the WTO the WTO and the question that one should ask and the question that one should ask and the question that one should ask yourself is when a country that's yourself is when a country that's yourself is when a country that's growing at 8 9 and 10% start to grow at growing at 8 9 and 10% start to grow at growing at 8 9 and 10% start to grow at half that rate yet have double the half that rate yet have double the half that rate yet have double the number of people and double the GDP what number of people and double the GDP what number of people and double the GDP what happens? you already have incredibly happens? you already have incredibly happens? you already have incredibly high domestic unemployment, especially high domestic unemployment, especially high domestic unemployment, especially youth unemployment. youth unemployment. youth unemployment. Does it become more or less chaotic? And Does it become more or less chaotic? And Does it become more or less chaotic? And I think the historical artifacts of I think the historical artifacts of I think the historical artifacts of every other country would show that it every other country would show that it every other country would show that it will become more chaotic. If you have will become more chaotic. If you have will become more chaotic. If you have that as a starting point, what is it in that as a starting point, what is it in that as a starting point, what is it in China's best interest to do? And I think China's best interest to do? And I think China's best interest to do? And I think it becomes obvious that the right thing it becomes obvious that the right thing it becomes obvious that the right thing to do would be to invade Taiwan. Why? to do would be to invade Taiwan. Why? to do would be to invade Taiwan. Why? because you start to create a sinkhole because you start to create a sinkhole because you start to create a sinkhole that occupies your people, that occupies that occupies your people, that occupies that occupies your people, that occupies resources, that can get domestic resources, that can get domestic resources, that can get domestic production up and running, that can production up and running, that can production up and running, that can start to generate a war machine. And you start to generate a war machine. And you start to generate a war machine. And you see the economic impact of war machines see the economic impact of war machines see the economic impact of war machines in any country during any conflict. in any country during any conflict. in any country during any conflict. And if I had to guess, just to build on And if I had to guess, just to build on And if I had to guess, just to build on what Emil said, the president saw that what Emil said, the president saw that what Emil said, the president saw that and I think what they did can be and I think what they did can be and I think what they did can be summarized in this chart which I sent to summarized in this chart which I sent to summarized in this chart which I sent to Nick. So if your goal is to prevent war Nick. So if your goal is to prevent war Nick. So if your goal is to prevent war with China, which is a massive global with China, which is a massive global with China, which is a massive global conflict, which could be nuclear, which conflict, which could be nuclear, which conflict, which could be nuclear, which could be cataclysmic, could be cataclysmic, could be cataclysmic, how would you do it? And this chart how would you do it? And this chart how would you do it? And this chart paints one way to do it. If you look at paints one way to do it. If you look at paints one way to do it. If you look at the conditions inside of the Chinese the conditions inside of the Chinese the conditions inside of the Chinese economy, economy, economy, the most interesting takeaway is that the most interesting takeaway is that the most interesting takeaway is that they are enormously they are enormously they are enormously dependent on imported oil. So about 20% dependent on imported oil. So about 20% dependent on imported oil. So about 20% of their economy, but it's not 20% of of their economy, but it's not 20% of of their economy, but it's not 20% of their economy because it's 100% of these their economy because it's 100% of these their economy because it's 100% of these critical things that create GDP, critical things that create GDP, critical things that create GDP, logistics, transportation, aviation, logistics, transportation, aviation, logistics, transportation, aviation, feed stock inputs. feed stock inputs. feed stock inputs. And of that 19% And of that 19% And of that 19% about a fifth of it comes exclusively about a fifth of it comes exclusively about a fifth of it comes exclusively from Iran and Venezuela. And now all of from Iran and Venezuela. And now all of from Iran and Venezuela. And now all of that is off the table. that is off the table. that is off the table. So if you take that and then you see So if you take that and then you see So if you take that and then you see what Steve Whitoff and Jared Kushner and what Steve Whitoff and Jared Kushner and what Steve Whitoff and Jared Kushner and Josh Greenbond have been doing, which is Josh Greenbond have been doing, which is Josh Greenbond have been doing, which is trying to get a deal done in Russia, and trying to get a deal done in Russia, and trying to get a deal done in Russia, and you put all of these things together, you put all of these things together, you put all of these things together, because by the way, if you add Russia because by the way, if you add Russia because by the way, if you add Russia into that mix, it's about 40% of China's into that mix, it's about 40% of China's into that mix, it's about 40% of China's oil, not only do you red dollarize, not oil, not only do you red dollarize, not oil, not only do you red dollarize, not only do you stop the funneling of all of only do you stop the funneling of all of only do you stop the funneling of all of these illicit oil funds to creating these illicit oil funds to creating these illicit oil funds to creating chaos all around the world, but you hem chaos all around the world, but you hem chaos all around the world, but you hem in China going into a massive moment at in China going into a massive moment at in China going into a massive moment at the end of March, beginning of April, the end of March, beginning of April, the end of March, beginning of April, where as Freeberg said really astutely, where as Freeberg said really astutely, where as Freeberg said really astutely, there is the potential for a grand there is the potential for a grand there is the potential for a grand bargain and I think that secures global bargain and I think that secures global bargain and I think that secures global safety in that that is a huge thing for safety in that that is a huge thing for safety in that that is a huge thing for America. America. America. >> Emil, how much does this have to do with >> Emil, how much does this have to do with >> Emil, how much does this have to do with China? China? China? I think you know my instinct is and I'm I think you know my instinct is and I'm I think you know my instinct is and I'm not speaking for the administration on not speaking for the administration on not speaking for the administration on this is that's a second order benefit to this is that's a second order benefit to this is that's a second order benefit to some of these things like the um you some of these things like the um you some of these things like the um you know and you said eight eight conflicts know and you said eight eight conflicts know and you said eight eight conflicts there have not been eight conflicts there have not been eight conflicts there have not been eight conflicts there is like we inherited Gaza we there is like we inherited Gaza we there is like we inherited Gaza we inherited Russia Ukraine um Venezuela inherited Russia Ukraine um Venezuela inherited Russia Ukraine um Venezuela was its own operation and then you could was its own operation and then you could was its own operation and then you could sort of attach to it the drug boats that sort of attach to it the drug boats that sort of attach to it the drug boats that were coming out of that as like one big were coming out of that as like one big were coming out of that as like one big operation operation operation um and then the Houthies was just Biden um and then the Houthies was just Biden um and then the Houthies was just Biden was ignoring the Houthies. They were was ignoring the Houthies. They were was ignoring the Houthies. They were just shooting at our ships. So that was just shooting at our ships. So that was just shooting at our ships. So that was like very limited in terms of like stop like very limited in terms of like stop like very limited in terms of like stop shooting our ships. We need freedom of shooting our ships. We need freedom of shooting our ships. We need freedom of the seas and that wasn't sort of a, you the seas and that wasn't sort of a, you the seas and that wasn't sort of a, you know, so that's something any president know, so that's something any president know, so that's something any president should be doing generally. I think um should be doing generally. I think um should be doing generally. I think um Iran being the one, you know, material Iran being the one, you know, material Iran being the one, you know, material conflict outside of Venezuela. So it's conflict outside of Venezuela. So it's conflict outside of Venezuela. So it's not it's not that many. And and how long not it's not that many. And and how long not it's not that many. And and how long did Venezuela last? It was one raid. did Venezuela last? It was one raid. did Venezuela last? It was one raid. one. one. one. >> I guess that's a really important >> I guess that's a really important >> I guess that's a really important >> few hours. This is this is an important >> few hours. This is this is an important >> few hours. This is this is an important note I think for you Emil to sort of uh note I think for you Emil to sort of uh note I think for you Emil to sort of uh >> I've explained to us there's a new >> I've explained to us there's a new >> I've explained to us there's a new >> approach here with regard to the these >> approach here with regard to the these >> approach here with regard to the these actions which is no boots on the ground actions which is no boots on the ground actions which is no boots on the ground and we seem to uh and and you of course and we seem to uh and and you of course and we seem to uh and and you of course have better information than anybody have better information than anybody have better information than anybody else does. I don't think anybody would else does. I don't think anybody would else does. I don't think anybody would have known Venezuela would have gone as have known Venezuela would have gone as have known Venezuela would have gone as well as it did and so far and listen we well as it did and so far and listen we well as it did and so far and listen we got a long way to go with Iran. This has got a long way to go with Iran. This has got a long way to go with Iran. This has gone very well as as well. So explain to gone very well as as well. So explain to gone very well as as well. So explain to us what you know and what you the us what you know and what you the us what you know and what you the president and HGV know that we don't president and HGV know that we don't president and HGV know that we don't that makes these two operations go so that makes these two operations go so that makes these two operations go so smoothly. What what is it then? There's smoothly. What what is it then? There's smoothly. What what is it then? There's obviously some new technology here in in obviously some new technology here in in obviously some new technology here in in the case of what happened in Venezuela. the case of what happened in Venezuela. the case of what happened in Venezuela. >> Yeah. Bes besides the discombobulator, >> Yeah. Bes besides the discombobulator, >> Yeah. Bes besides the discombobulator, what we've got is a very well-trained what we've got is a very well-trained what we've got is a very well-trained military. Like the the global war and military. Like the the global war and military. Like the the global war and terror was disaster in so many respects, terror was disaster in so many respects, terror was disaster in so many respects, but the people now who are fighting that but the people now who are fighting that but the people now who are fighting that are generals now. And so they've learned are generals now. And so they've learned are generals now. And so they've learned a lot of lessons. And you compare that a lot of lessons. And you compare that a lot of lessons. And you compare that to the Chinese military. They don't have to the Chinese military. They don't have to the Chinese military. They don't have a lot of experience. In fact, the the a lot of experience. In fact, the the a lot of experience. In fact, the the decapitation they did in the Chinese decapitation they did in the Chinese decapitation they did in the Chinese military, the one guy they took out was military, the one guy they took out was military, the one guy they took out was the one guy who had experience in the one guy who had experience in the one guy who had experience in Vietnam. So, they don't have conflict Vietnam. So, they don't have conflict Vietnam. So, they don't have conflict experience, and that matters because you experience, and that matters because you experience, and that matters because you understand going in what are the things understand going in what are the things understand going in what are the things that could go wrong. Um, and then you that could go wrong. Um, and then you that could go wrong. Um, and then you you have incredible technology, space, you have incredible technology, space, you have incredible technology, space, air, land, sea, cyber, um, all kinds of air, land, sea, cyber, um, all kinds of air, land, sea, cyber, um, all kinds of effects that you could bring together. effects that you could bring together. effects that you could bring together. And so you imagine uh a hundred guys And so you imagine uh a hundred guys And so you imagine uh a hundred guys goes into the most fortified compound in goes into the most fortified compound in goes into the most fortified compound in Venezuela where the president is, you Venezuela where the president is, you Venezuela where the president is, you know, take him and his wife out safely know, take him and his wife out safely know, take him and his wife out safely and are out with no KAS. and are out with no KAS. and are out with no KAS. >> Incredible. >> Incredible. >> Incredible. >> I mean, it's just incredible, right? So >> I mean, it's just incredible, right? So >> I mean, it's just incredible, right? So stunning. stunning. stunning. >> Yeah. So, and they they these things >> Yeah. So, and they they these things >> Yeah. So, and they they these things these war games have been on the on the these war games have been on the on the these war games have been on the on the shelf for a long time. Every every shelf for a long time. Every every shelf for a long time. Every every scenario has been planned for years scenario has been planned for years scenario has been planned for years ahead of time. Midnight hammer in Iran ahead of time. Midnight hammer in Iran ahead of time. Midnight hammer in Iran was planned years ahead of time in terms was planned years ahead of time in terms was planned years ahead of time in terms of how would you do it if you were going of how would you do it if you were going of how would you do it if you were going to do it. to do it. to do it. >> Um, and then you keep refreshing the >> Um, and then you keep refreshing the >> Um, and then you keep refreshing the tactics, tactics, techniques, and tactics, tactics, techniques, and tactics, tactics, techniques, and procedures and you're updating them. So, procedures and you're updating them. So, procedures and you're updating them. So, we have a very sophisticated way of of we have a very sophisticated way of of we have a very sophisticated way of of doing these things to minimize loss of doing these things to minimize loss of doing these things to minimize loss of life and maximize success. life and maximize success. life and maximize success. >> Can I ask a question? I don't want to I >> Can I ask a question? I don't want to I >> Can I ask a question? I don't want to I don't want to derail this conversation, don't want to derail this conversation, don't want to derail this conversation, but is the discombobulator real? Like, but is the discombobulator real? Like, but is the discombobulator real? Like, what can you say about the discombobul? what can you say about the discombobul? what can you say about the discombobul? >> I completely I was like obsessed with >> I completely I was like obsessed with >> I completely I was like obsessed with this when I saw it on X. I was like, this when I saw it on X. I was like, this when I saw it on X. I was like, "What is this thing?" I mean, I need it "What is this thing?" I mean, I need it "What is this thing?" I mean, I need it in my house. Like, I just want to push a in my house. Like, I just want to push a in my house. Like, I just want to push a button of all these my kids. button of all these my kids. button of all these my kids. >> And that's just for when Helm Youth >> And that's just for when Helm Youth >> And that's just for when Helm Youth shows up. shows up. shows up. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Not meant for your kids or if they're >> Not meant for your kids or if they're >> Not meant for your kids or if they're behaving badly. No, it's can't talk behaving badly. No, it's can't talk behaving badly. No, it's can't talk about it. about it. about it. >> Emil, do you think we would have been >> Emil, do you think we would have been >> Emil, do you think we would have been able to pull off that mission as able to pull off that mission as able to pull off that mission as successfully as we did 5 years ago, 10 successfully as we did 5 years ago, 10 successfully as we did 5 years ago, 10 years ago? Has the technology improved years ago? Has the technology improved years ago? Has the technology improved that quickly that this is not something that quickly that this is not something that quickly that this is not something that's been possible historically? And that's been possible historically? And that's been possible historically? And how does that change the the pacing and how does that change the the pacing and how does that change the the pacing and the face of war for the next couple of the face of war for the next couple of the face of war for the next couple of years? I'd say no. It wasn't only a years? I'd say no. It wasn't only a years? I'd say no. It wasn't only a technology maturation from five years technology maturation from five years technology maturation from five years ago. It's the uh rules of engagement. ago. It's the uh rules of engagement. ago. It's the uh rules of engagement. The rules of engagement that we used to The rules of engagement that we used to The rules of engagement that we used to have uh there was some I mean if you have uh there was some I mean if you have uh there was some I mean if you read about them some of them were insane read about them some of them were insane read about them some of them were insane like if in Afghanistan if the guy had a like if in Afghanistan if the guy had a like if in Afghanistan if the guy had a small gun you had to have a small gun small gun you had to have a small gun small gun you had to have a small gun and you know there was this parody in and you know there was this parody in and you know there was this parody in weird ways. weird ways. weird ways. >> And when you're like well but is the >> And when you're like well but is the >> And when you're like well but is the objective to have like a fair fight or objective to have like a fair fight or objective to have like a fair fight or an unfair fight? Um, well, if you're on an unfair fight? Um, well, if you're on an unfair fight? Um, well, if you're on our side, you want it to be unfair. So, our side, you want it to be unfair. So, our side, you want it to be unfair. So, the rules of engagement were relaxed to the rules of engagement were relaxed to the rules of engagement were relaxed to be be be >> Who writes those, Emil? Who sits in an >> Who writes those, Emil? Who sits in an >> Who writes those, Emil? Who sits in an office and says you can't shoot back if office and says you can't shoot back if office and says you can't shoot back if a combatant is shooting at you if you a combatant is shooting at you if you a combatant is shooting at you if you aren't matched gun forgun? aren't matched gun forgun? aren't matched gun forgun? >> Yeah. I mean, who writes that crazy >> Yeah. I mean, who writes that crazy >> Yeah. I mean, who writes that crazy policies that are written into military policies that are written into military policies that are written into military department? And that's why when department? And that's why when department? And that's why when Secretary Hicks talks about um this kind Secretary Hicks talks about um this kind Secretary Hicks talks about um this kind of thing and what was happening with him of thing and what was happening with him of thing and what was happening with him when he was in Afghanistan, if you ever when he was in Afghanistan, if you ever when he was in Afghanistan, if you ever read his book in Iraq, he's like the read his book in Iraq, he's like the read his book in Iraq, he's like the rules of engagement were so punishing rules of engagement were so punishing rules of engagement were so punishing that we were we were at risk all the that we were we were at risk all the that we were we were at risk all the time cuz you had to have like a legal time cuz you had to have like a legal time cuz you had to have like a legal understanding of what was happening in understanding of what was happening in understanding of what was happening in every minute in the battlefield as every minute in the battlefield as every minute in the battlefield as opposed to well your job is to you know opposed to well your job is to you know opposed to well your job is to you know take out these guys and protect these take out these guys and protect these take out these guys and protect these guys. Here's your munitions. here's like guys. Here's your munitions. here's like guys. Here's your munitions. here's like the the the red lines and then like in the the the red lines and then like in the the the red lines and then like in the middle of that go use your judgment the middle of that go use your judgment the middle of that go use your judgment your commanding officer use your your commanding officer use your your commanding officer use your judgment on how to win and we kind of judgment on how to win and we kind of judgment on how to win and we kind of gotten back to that use your judgment gotten back to that use your judgment gotten back to that use your judgment push responsibility field still have push responsibility field still have push responsibility field still have your red lines but other than that the your red lines but other than that the your red lines but other than that the objective is the objective it's more of objective is the objective it's more of objective is the objective it's more of a colon Powell approach it's like go all a colon Powell approach it's like go all a colon Powell approach it's like go all in have a clear objective come out use in have a clear objective come out use in have a clear objective come out use overwhelming force and we were not doing overwhelming force and we were not doing overwhelming force and we were not doing that for the last four years that for the last four years that for the last four years >> and then going back to the the face of >> and then going back to the the face of >> and then going back to the the face of war going forward forward. My war going forward forward. My war going forward forward. My understanding is that there have been understanding is that there have been understanding is that there have been more drones deployed by the United more drones deployed by the United more drones deployed by the United States this past week than we've done in States this past week than we've done in States this past week than we've done in the history of military activity. Is the history of military activity. Is the history of military activity. Is that right? And like how does that that right? And like how does that that right? And like how does that really change things going forward here? really change things going forward here? really change things going forward here? >> It it changes it big. Well, so so the >> It it changes it big. Well, so so the >> It it changes it big. Well, so so the Predator drone was the first big drone Predator drone was the first big drone Predator drone was the first big drone program like 1015 years ago. It was this program like 1015 years ago. It was this program like 1015 years ago. It was this big honken drone. Um and then if you big honken drone. Um and then if you big honken drone. Um and then if you remember Obama would take out some of remember Obama would take out some of remember Obama would take out some of these al-Qaeda leaders with drones on these al-Qaeda leaders with drones on these al-Qaeda leaders with drones on their balcony and things like that. Uh I their balcony and things like that. Uh I their balcony and things like that. Uh I think we uh President Trump took out think we uh President Trump took out think we uh President Trump took out Sulammani with a drone near his car. Sulammani with a drone near his car. Sulammani with a drone near his car. That was the beginning. And then Iraq uh That was the beginning. And then Iraq uh That was the beginning. And then Iraq uh sorry the Russia uh Ukraine war happened sorry the Russia uh Ukraine war happened sorry the Russia uh Ukraine war happened where it's like drone on drone. 70% of where it's like drone on drone. 70% of where it's like drone on drone. 70% of the the casualties are for drone but the the casualties are for drone but the the casualties are for drone but because of drones. So um drone on drone because of drones. So um drone on drone because of drones. So um drone on drone warfare, robot on robot warfare, those warfare, robot on robot warfare, those warfare, robot on robot warfare, those things are the future for sure, things are the future for sure, things are the future for sure, >> right? And that's why companies like >> right? And that's why companies like >> right? And that's why companies like Ander are companies like Anderoll is Ander are companies like Anderoll is Ander are companies like Anderoll is because they're making unmanned systems. because they're making unmanned systems. because they're making unmanned systems. A and this has been something you've A and this has been something you've A and this has been something you've specifically been very focused on and specifically been very focused on and specifically been very focused on and you tweeted today a little bit about a you tweeted today a little bit about a you tweeted today a little bit about a competition. We'll play a little video competition. We'll play a little video competition. We'll play a little video here. And this Lucas lowcost unmanned here. And this Lucas lowcost unmanned here. And this Lucas lowcost unmanned combat attack systems. combat attack systems. combat attack systems. >> It used to take a lot of time. It >> It used to take a lot of time. It >> It used to take a lot of time. It certainly wasn't startup time to get new certainly wasn't startup time to get new certainly wasn't startup time to get new product into the channel for our product into the channel for our product into the channel for our military to use. Explain what program military to use. Explain what program military to use. Explain what program you're running here. Feels like the you're running here. Feels like the you're running here. Feels like the DARPA self-driving challenge all over DARPA self-driving challenge all over DARPA self-driving challenge all over again and what these drones cost. I know again and what these drones cost. I know again and what these drones cost. I know there's a company making them for I there's a company making them for I there's a company making them for I think $35,000. Am I correct? think $35,000. Am I correct? think $35,000. Am I correct? >> I mean the the small drones like I'm >> I mean the the small drones like I'm >> I mean the the small drones like I'm holding right there and that are way holding right there and that are way holding right there and that are way cheaper than that. The Lucas oneway cheaper than that. The Lucas oneway cheaper than that. The Lucas oneway attack drone which can go 5 6 700 miles attack drone which can go 5 6 700 miles attack drone which can go 5 6 700 miles at the speed of an airplane at the speed of an airplane at the speed of an airplane >> carry a big warhead. Those are like 50 >> carry a big warhead. Those are like 50 >> carry a big warhead. Those are like 50 $80,000 $80,000 $80,000 depending on what kind of equipment you depending on what kind of equipment you depending on what kind of equipment you put on you put on it. But the we've have put on you put on it. But the we've have put on you put on it. But the we've have a drone dominance program and the real a drone dominance program and the real a drone dominance program and the real and we basically have to build an and we basically have to build an and we basically have to build an arsenal for for drones. Now are we arsenal for for drones. Now are we arsenal for for drones. Now are we likely to have a territorial conflict likely to have a territorial conflict likely to have a territorial conflict like Russia Ukraine with Canada and like Russia Ukraine with Canada and like Russia Ukraine with Canada and Mexico? No. But but we do want to take Mexico? No. But but we do want to take Mexico? No. But but we do want to take out drug drones at the border and we out drug drones at the border and we out drug drones at the border and we want but long one-way attack drones are want but long one-way attack drones are want but long one-way attack drones are important for you know any kind of major important for you know any kind of major important for you know any kind of major conflict like you're seeing in Iran. but conflict like you're seeing in Iran. but conflict like you're seeing in Iran. but also to protect military bases for also to protect military bases for also to protect military bases for America 250 World Cup uh Olympics in 28 America 250 World Cup uh Olympics in 28 America 250 World Cup uh Olympics in 28 like there's other there's a lot more like there's other there's a lot more like there's other there's a lot more uses of drones for surveillance not just uses of drones for surveillance not just uses of drones for surveillance not just for you know for combat for you know for combat for you know for combat >> there you're showing drones that are >> there you're showing drones that are >> there you're showing drones that are sort of human operated but how much of sort of human operated but how much of sort of human operated but how much of this should basically be AI so that it's this should basically be AI so that it's this should basically be AI so that it's just some computer vision and again back just some computer vision and again back just some computer vision and again back to what you said before a model to what you said before a model to what you said before a model understands the rules and the red lines understands the rules and the red lines understands the rules and the red lines but otherwise is be on task and but otherwise is be on task and but otherwise is be on task and accomplish your mission. How much of it accomplish your mission. How much of it accomplish your mission. How much of it is one versus the other? is one versus the other? is one versus the other? >> I mean, it I believe that a >> I mean, it I believe that a >> I mean, it I believe that a sophisticated drone war is going to be sophisticated drone war is going to be sophisticated drone war is going to be drone swarms controlled by AI to some drone swarms controlled by AI to some drone swarms controlled by AI to some degree or another, right? To what degree degree or another, right? To what degree degree or another, right? To what degree the control matters? Like for example, the control matters? Like for example, the control matters? Like for example, drones have decoys. They could spit out, drones have decoys. They could spit out, drones have decoys. They could spit out, you know, they could dazzle. They could you know, they could dazzle. They could you know, they could dazzle. They could put out things. So, how do you put out things. So, how do you put out things. So, how do you discriminate what's a drone and how to discriminate what's a drone and how to discriminate what's a drone and how to hit it? You know, you could use AI for hit it? You know, you could use AI for hit it? You know, you could use AI for that because it's learned, you know, how that because it's learned, you know, how that because it's learned, you know, how to do automatic target recognition, for to do automatic target recognition, for to do automatic target recognition, for example. Um, and then also could it example. Um, and then also could it example. Um, and then also could it identify a person and that and and does identify a person and that and and does identify a person and that and and does that make it safer? So, it's going after that make it safer? So, it's going after that make it safer? So, it's going after actually someone you want to get and not actually someone you want to get and not actually someone you want to get and not someone you don't want to get. Um, so someone you don't want to get. Um, so someone you don't want to get. Um, so there's a lot of uses for AI at the there's a lot of uses for AI at the there's a lot of uses for AI at the edge, if you will. Um, in the future edge, if you will. Um, in the future edge, if you will. Um, in the future here, the the Ukrainians and Russians do here, the the Ukrainians and Russians do here, the the Ukrainians and Russians do something called like a kill box where something called like a kill box where something called like a kill box where they lose comms because it's jammed for they lose comms because it's jammed for they lose comms because it's jammed for this drone and then it just starts going this drone and then it just starts going this drone and then it just starts going in a box and looking for, you know, a in a box and looking for, you know, a in a box and looking for, you know, a the person they're trying to get and the person they're trying to get and the person they're trying to get and they're trying they're starting to use they're trying they're starting to use they're trying they're starting to use AI to do that. AI to do that. AI to do that. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And China has this uh ability already >> And China has this uh ability already >> And China has this uh ability already probably times some magnitude. Yeah. probably times some magnitude. Yeah. probably times some magnitude. Yeah. They have drone swarms because they can They have drone swarms because they can They have drone swarms because they can they can force the companies that make they can force the companies that make they can force the companies that make them, not just DJI, to interoperate. So them, not just DJI, to interoperate. So them, not just DJI, to interoperate. So interoperating drones called interoperating drones called interoperating drones called heterogeneous autonomy, right? You take heterogeneous autonomy, right? You take heterogeneous autonomy, right? You take different kinds of drones and how they different kinds of drones and how they different kinds of drones and how they communicate with one another and then communicate with one another and then communicate with one another and then make sure they're not going after the make sure they're not going after the make sure they're not going after the same target is like a pretty complex same target is like a pretty complex same target is like a pretty complex thing that they're definitely working thing that they're definitely working thing that they're definitely working on. on. on. >> And let's talk uh about the fidelity of >> And let's talk uh about the fidelity of >> And let's talk uh about the fidelity of these. Obviously, AI is a new these. Obviously, AI is a new these. Obviously, AI is a new technology. They it can make mistakes. technology. They it can make mistakes. technology. They it can make mistakes. Anybody who uses it on a day-to-day Anybody who uses it on a day-to-day Anybody who uses it on a day-to-day basis might experience a hallucination. basis might experience a hallucination. basis might experience a hallucination. How confident are you in the AI Ukraine How confident are you in the AI Ukraine How confident are you in the AI Ukraine and Russia conflict? They obviously are and Russia conflict? They obviously are and Russia conflict? They obviously are not going to be as thoughtful maybe as not going to be as thoughtful maybe as not going to be as thoughtful maybe as we are in putting this together. They're we are in putting this together. They're we are in putting this together. They're in a hot war right now. But we as the in a hot war right now. But we as the in a hot war right now. But we as the United States have to be very thoughtful United States have to be very thoughtful United States have to be very thoughtful about this. So, how confident are you about this. So, how confident are you about this. So, how confident are you that this isn't going to make a mistake? that this isn't going to make a mistake? that this isn't going to make a mistake? I think that's the key to a lot of this I think that's the key to a lot of this I think that's the key to a lot of this debate. and and when will it be you know debate. and and when will it be you know debate. and and when will it be you know perfect defined as much better and I perfect defined as much better and I perfect defined as much better and I guess this dovetales with the guess this dovetales with the guess this dovetales with the self-driving self-driving self-driving you know thoughts it has to be a you know thoughts it has to be a you know thoughts it has to be a magnitude better than a human so when magnitude better than a human so when magnitude better than a human so when will this be a magnitude more accurate will this be a magnitude more accurate will this be a magnitude more accurate than you know when we have uh make a than you know when we have uh make a than you know when we have uh make a mistake as a as a military and we kill a mistake as a as a military and we kill a mistake as a as a military and we kill a civilian civilian civilian >> yeah no it's it's a good question and um >> yeah no it's it's a good question and um >> yeah no it's it's a good question and um I don't know when that moment hits that I don't know when that moment hits that I don't know when that moment hits that FSD moment where it get kind of gets FSD moment where it get kind of gets FSD moment where it get kind of gets better certainly not there and you better certainly not there and you better certainly not there and you wouldn't want to take huge risk with wouldn't want to take huge risk with wouldn't want to take huge risk with that in like you know there there's a that in like you know there there's a that in like you know there there's a gradation of when you would use that and gradation of when you would use that and gradation of when you would use that and what kind of risk you were trying to what kind of risk you were trying to what kind of risk you were trying to take or not. If you were trying to take take or not. If you were trying to take take or not. If you were trying to take out a drone using AI using a like a out a drone using AI using a like a out a drone using AI using a like a laser or something you'd be pretty like laser or something you'd be pretty like laser or something you'd be pretty like okay making mistakes because you just okay making mistakes because you just okay making mistakes because you just missed the drone you know like whatever missed the drone you know like whatever missed the drone you know like whatever with a with a with the laser laser goes with a with a with the laser laser goes with a with a with the laser laser goes off it's all over. Um if you were doing off it's all over. Um if you were doing off it's all over. Um if you were doing something more sophisticated in a something more sophisticated in a something more sophisticated in a population area have densely populated population area have densely populated population area have densely populated area you'd take less risk. So, we're area you'd take less risk. So, we're area you'd take less risk. So, we're developing procedures, tactics for each developing procedures, tactics for each developing procedures, tactics for each scenario. And this is part of the debate scenario. And this is part of the debate scenario. And this is part of the debate I had with anthropic, which is we need I had with anthropic, which is we need I had with anthropic, which is we need AI for things like Golden Dome. AI for things like Golden Dome. AI for things like Golden Dome. >> Chinese hypersonic missile comes up. >> Chinese hypersonic missile comes up. >> Chinese hypersonic missile comes up. You've got 90 seconds before it You've got 90 seconds before it You've got 90 seconds before it separates and all kinds of decoys and separates and all kinds of decoys and separates and all kinds of decoys and you don't know where the actual payload you don't know where the actual payload you don't know where the actual payload is and you want to get it hit it from is and you want to get it hit it from is and you want to get it hit it from space. and a human can't doesn't have space. and a human can't doesn't have space. and a human can't doesn't have the reaction time, doesn't have the may the reaction time, doesn't have the may the reaction time, doesn't have the may not be able to discriminate with their not be able to discriminate with their not be able to discriminate with their own eyes what they're going after. own eyes what they're going after. own eyes what they're going after. That's a pretty, you know, lowrisk thing That's a pretty, you know, lowrisk thing That's a pretty, you know, lowrisk thing because it's in space and you're just because it's in space and you're just because it's in space and you're just trying to hit something that's trying to trying to hit something that's trying to trying to hit something that's trying to hit you. So, I think in the next 10 hit you. So, I think in the next 10 hit you. So, I think in the next 10 years, you're going to see a lot of years, you're going to see a lot of years, you're going to see a lot of these applications develop AI to one these applications develop AI to one these applications develop AI to one degree or another so long as we think degree or another so long as we think degree or another so long as we think it's safe and it's not going to do the, it's safe and it's not going to do the, it's safe and it's not going to do the, you know, make mistakes. you know, make mistakes. you know, make mistakes. >> Before we get on to the anthropic >> Before we get on to the anthropic >> Before we get on to the anthropic discussion, and we really appreciate you discussion, and we really appreciate you discussion, and we really appreciate you coming here and my lord, this has been coming here and my lord, this has been coming here and my lord, this has been so informative. So thank you Neil for so informative. So thank you Neil for so informative. So thank you Neil for coming here and explaining to the coming here and explaining to the coming here and explaining to the American public and to us what you're American public and to us what you're American public and to us what you're working on. It really makes us uh I working on. It really makes us uh I working on. It really makes us uh I think speak for everybody really think speak for everybody really think speak for everybody really confident in what you're doing and it's confident in what you're doing and it's confident in what you're doing and it's so great that you've you know left the so great that you've you know left the so great that you've you know left the private sector to do this. private sector to do this. private sector to do this. >> What I would say just very quickly Emil >> What I would say just very quickly Emil >> What I would say just very quickly Emil is I think that not enough people is I think that not enough people is I think that not enough people understand that the American military understand that the American military understand that the American military has had to fight with one hand tied has had to fight with one hand tied has had to fight with one hand tied behind their back. Just that little behind their back. Just that little behind their back. Just that little >> insight that you just gave about >> insight that you just gave about >> insight that you just gave about Afghanistan Afghanistan Afghanistan to me seems so scary because the men and to me seems so scary because the men and to me seems so scary because the men and women that sign up for the American women that sign up for the American women that sign up for the American military. They're doing this to fight on military. They're doing this to fight on military. They're doing this to fight on behalf of this country. They deserve a behalf of this country. They deserve a behalf of this country. They deserve a lot more than being sent there and all lot more than being sent there and all lot more than being sent there and all of a sudden being given this rule book of a sudden being given this rule book of a sudden being given this rule book and say, "Do your best." And it's like, and say, "Do your best." And it's like, and say, "Do your best." And it's like, "Oh, wait. You violated 19 rules trying "Oh, wait. You violated 19 rules trying "Oh, wait. You violated 19 rules trying to protect America. Do your job." That's to protect America. Do your job." That's to protect America. Do your job." That's insane. insane. insane. >> Let's just >> Let's just >> Let's just >> It's really insane in some cases. I I my >> It's really insane in some cases. I I my >> It's really insane in some cases. I I my my belief is that's what the frustration my belief is that's what the frustration my belief is that's what the frustration for those soldiers who were out there in for those soldiers who were out there in for those soldiers who were out there in those wars had more than anything. There those wars had more than anything. There those wars had more than anything. There was the broader frustration what are we was the broader frustration what are we was the broader frustration what are we doing here and then the secondary doing here and then the secondary doing here and then the secondary frustration is while I'm here why can't frustration is while I'm here why can't frustration is while I'm here why can't I do my job? I do my job? I do my job? >> Yeah. Is there is there much of a debate >> Yeah. Is there is there much of a debate >> Yeah. Is there is there much of a debate internally and sorry Jake before we move internally and sorry Jake before we move internally and sorry Jake before we move forward on this forward on this forward on this >> regarding this idea of full autonomy in >> regarding this idea of full autonomy in >> regarding this idea of full autonomy in military action? I don't want to speak military action? I don't want to speak military action? I don't want to speak ahead to the anthropic point, but it was ahead to the anthropic point, but it was ahead to the anthropic point, but it was something that the media seemed to say something that the media seemed to say something that the media seemed to say was part of Daario's concern is that was part of Daario's concern is that was part of Daario's concern is that when you press the button and hand over when you press the button and hand over when you press the button and hand over complete autonomy and there's a kill complete autonomy and there's a kill complete autonomy and there's a kill action that you're now giving to a robot action that you're now giving to a robot action that you're now giving to a robot or to some autonomous system, do we then or to some autonomous system, do we then or to some autonomous system, do we then kind of have a moral issue at hand? And kind of have a moral issue at hand? And kind of have a moral issue at hand? And is that something that's kind of debated is that something that's kind of debated is that something that's kind of debated or discussed? And is that the right way or discussed? And is that the right way or discussed? And is that the right way to think about the framing of what goes to think about the framing of what goes to think about the framing of what goes on? on? on? >> I mean, we're not even close to there >> I mean, we're not even close to there >> I mean, we're not even close to there yet, right? where like this the systems yet, right? where like this the systems yet, right? where like this the systems are not we we wouldn't feel that a are not we we wouldn't feel that a are not we we wouldn't feel that a system uh that would have sort of like system uh that would have sort of like system uh that would have sort of like real risk for a civilian is ready to real risk for a civilian is ready to real risk for a civilian is ready to launch yet. So we're not even debating launch yet. So we're not even debating launch yet. So we're not even debating that. We're just trying to get basic that. We're just trying to get basic that. We're just trying to get basic autonomy in drones, basic autonomy in autonomy in drones, basic autonomy in autonomy in drones, basic autonomy in underwater unmanned vehicles, basic underwater unmanned vehicles, basic underwater unmanned vehicles, basic autonomy that, you know, you've heard of autonomy that, you know, you've heard of autonomy that, you know, you've heard of this collaborative aircraft that fly this collaborative aircraft that fly this collaborative aircraft that fly along with a the jetcraft so that it has along with a the jetcraft so that it has along with a the jetcraft so that it has more firepower, but it's still tethered more firepower, but it's still tethered more firepower, but it's still tethered to what the jet does. So, we're to what the jet does. So, we're to what the jet does. So, we're >> incredible. Yeah. >> incredible. Yeah. >> incredible. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, we're just at the very >> Yeah. So, we're just at the very >> Yeah. So, we're just at the very beginning of this stuff, beginning of this stuff, beginning of this stuff, >> but for Golden Dome's a good example of >> but for Golden Dome's a good example of >> but for Golden Dome's a good example of like, yeah, who can oppose that? Like, like, yeah, who can oppose that? Like, like, yeah, who can oppose that? Like, it's the only way to get out a threat it's the only way to get out a threat it's the only way to get out a threat like that. Um, so who could oppose if like that. Um, so who could oppose if like that. Um, so who could oppose if you have a military base and you have a you have a military base and you have a you have a military base and you have a bunch of soldiers sleeping that you have bunch of soldiers sleeping that you have bunch of soldiers sleeping that you have a laser that can take down drones a laser that can take down drones a laser that can take down drones autonomously on that? So there's it's autonomously on that? So there's it's autonomously on that? So there's it's it's pretty scenario by scenario, but I it's pretty scenario by scenario, but I it's pretty scenario by scenario, but I don't we're not having a lot of debate don't we're not having a lot of debate don't we're not having a lot of debate because the Skynet thing is so not a because the Skynet thing is so not a because the Skynet thing is so not a realistic thing at this moment, right? realistic thing at this moment, right? realistic thing at this moment, right? Except if one thing I did tell the Except if one thing I did tell the Except if one thing I did tell the anthropic guys, I was like, you know, or anthropic guys, I was like, you know, or anthropic guys, I was like, you know, or I'd tell any company, your models are I'd tell any company, your models are I'd tell any company, your models are getting stolen by the Chinese. They're getting stolen by the Chinese. They're getting stolen by the Chinese. They're going to unguard rail them and use them going to unguard rail them and use them going to unguard rail them and use them against us. And then you want our models against us. And then you want our models against us. And then you want our models to be less capable against your models. to be less capable against your models. to be less capable against your models. It's sort of It's sort of It's sort of >> they're not going to be thoughtful. In >> they're not going to be thoughtful. In >> they're not going to be thoughtful. In other words, they're going to go for it. other words, they're going to go for it. other words, they're going to go for it. And you know, if we just benchmark this And you know, if we just benchmark this And you know, if we just benchmark this against where we were at, you know, but against where we were at, you know, but against where we were at, you know, but 101 15 years ago, there was the Wikileak 101 15 years ago, there was the Wikileak 101 15 years ago, there was the Wikileak of collateral murder, I think they of collateral murder, I think they of collateral murder, I think they called it, where we tragically had an called it, where we tragically had an called it, where we tragically had an Apache take out some journalists. And Apache take out some journalists. And Apache take out some journalists. And this technology even applied today this technology even applied today this technology even applied today probably would have avoided that in my probably would have avoided that in my probably would have avoided that in my mind. Yeah. Like we have enough that mind. Yeah. Like we have enough that mind. Yeah. Like we have enough that when you're targeting not drones but you when you're targeting not drones but you when you're targeting not drones but you know people on the ground with an Apache know people on the ground with an Apache know people on the ground with an Apache this would have probably avoided that. this would have probably avoided that. this would have probably avoided that. >> Yeah. Or or you know the Kuwaiti >> Yeah. Or or you know the Kuwaiti >> Yeah. Or or you know the Kuwaiti aircraft hitting you know an American aircraft hitting you know an American aircraft hitting you know an American aircraft making a mistake because it aircraft making a mistake because it aircraft making a mistake because it doesn't have the identification. I mean doesn't have the identification. I mean doesn't have the identification. I mean it's the same self-driving argument to a it's the same self-driving argument to a it's the same self-driving argument to a degree. like self-driving could save degree. like self-driving could save degree. like self-driving could save lives even though it's scary to look at lives even though it's scary to look at lives even though it's scary to look at a car without a human behind the wheel a car without a human behind the wheel a car without a human behind the wheel but there's tons of scenarios where it's but there's tons of scenarios where it's but there's tons of scenarios where it's a way better safer option more precise a way better safer option more precise a way better safer option more precise um than the alternative um than the alternative um than the alternative >> all right before we move on to the Dario >> all right before we move on to the Dario >> all right before we move on to the Dario thing and anthropic and that brew haha thing and anthropic and that brew haha thing and anthropic and that brew haha there was one piece that we haven't there was one piece that we haven't there was one piece that we haven't addressed with this interaction Freeberg addressed with this interaction Freeberg addressed with this interaction Freeberg Chimath which is uh the Israeli Chimath which is uh the Israeli Chimath which is uh the Israeli government and their desire to take out government and their desire to take out government and their desire to take out this regime And us according to Tucker this regime And us according to Tucker this regime And us according to Tucker Carlson and a large contingent of the Carlson and a large contingent of the Carlson and a large contingent of the MAGA base they feel that we are captured MAGA base they feel that we are captured MAGA base they feel that we are captured by this group. Does Israel have too much by this group. Does Israel have too much by this group. Does Israel have too much influence over the United States with influence over the United States with influence over the United States with regard to these actions in the Middle regard to these actions in the Middle regard to these actions in the Middle East? This is you know a big debate East? This is you know a big debate East? This is you know a big debate within the party within the Republican within the party within the Republican within the party within the Republican party within the MAGA constituent. Hey party within the MAGA constituent. Hey party within the MAGA constituent. Hey we number one we don't want these wars. we number one we don't want these wars. we number one we don't want these wars. Number two is Israel driving this thing Number two is Israel driving this thing Number two is Israel driving this thing to the point of Rubio's quotes that hey, to the point of Rubio's quotes that hey, to the point of Rubio's quotes that hey, we're doing this because Israel is going we're doing this because Israel is going we're doing this because Israel is going anyway. I think we should address it anyway. I think we should address it anyway. I think we should address it here. Not that I have a personal stake here. Not that I have a personal stake here. Not that I have a personal stake in this. I'll give my personal opinion in this. I'll give my personal opinion in this. I'll give my personal opinion at the end. at the end. at the end. >> I don't think the president is captured >> I don't think the president is captured >> I don't think the president is captured by Israel in the least. I think he by Israel in the least. I think he by Israel in the least. I think he decides what is in the best interest of decides what is in the best interest of decides what is in the best interest of the United States. And if the United States. And if the United States. And if Israel can be a part of that, then Israel can be a part of that, then Israel can be a part of that, then they're a part of it. And look, let's be they're a part of it. And look, let's be they're a part of it. And look, let's be clear, they're incredibly capable. And clear, they're incredibly capable. And clear, they're incredibly capable. And so in something like this, to be able to so in something like this, to be able to so in something like this, to be able to incorporate the intelligence of MSAD, incorporate the intelligence of MSAD, incorporate the intelligence of MSAD, what you're seeing today in this what you're seeing today in this what you're seeing today in this operation Epic Fury, we're four days in, operation Epic Fury, we're four days in, operation Epic Fury, we're four days in, Iran has been 90% depleted of all of Iran has been 90% depleted of all of Iran has been 90% depleted of all of their munitions. It looks like they're their munitions. It looks like they're their munitions. It looks like they're just firing no more missiles out from just firing no more missiles out from just firing no more missiles out from Iran to anywhere else. There's fleets of Iran to anywhere else. There's fleets of Iran to anywhere else. There's fleets of drones and planes just waiting. drones and planes just waiting. drones and planes just waiting. Everybody knew where the Iranians were. Everybody knew where the Iranians were. Everybody knew where the Iranians were. It's great that when we make a decision It's great that when we make a decision It's great that when we make a decision on something that we need to do, we can on something that we need to do, we can on something that we need to do, we can rely on our allies. I think the opposite rely on our allies. I think the opposite rely on our allies. I think the opposite question should also be asked like what question should also be asked like what question should also be asked like what was the UK doing? Why is Spain was the UK doing? Why is Spain was the UK doing? Why is Spain pontificating? Why was Europe taking the pontificating? Why was Europe taking the pontificating? Why was Europe taking the weekend off before they could even issue weekend off before they could even issue weekend off before they could even issue a statement? Why don't you ask that a statement? Why don't you ask that a statement? Why don't you ask that question? question? question? >> Yeah. No, it's equally valid question. >> Yeah. No, it's equally valid question. >> Yeah. No, it's equally valid question. You know, uh Freeberg, do you want to You know, uh Freeberg, do you want to You know, uh Freeberg, do you want to get in on this or no? get in on this or no? get in on this or no? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> I'm a Jew. No one's going to care what I >> I'm a Jew. No one's going to care what I >> I'm a Jew. No one's going to care what I have to say. They're either going to have to say. They're either going to have to say. They're either going to they're either going to be like totally they're either going to be like totally they're either going to be like totally like or they're going to say this guy's like or they're going to say this guy's like or they're going to say this guy's a Jew. We shouldn't listen to him. So, a Jew. We shouldn't listen to him. So, a Jew. We shouldn't listen to him. So, like let's move on. Go ahead. like let's move on. Go ahead. like let's move on. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Emil, any thoughts on on this? I do want >> Emil, any thoughts on on this? I do want >> Emil, any thoughts on on this? I do want to know from Emil though like you know to know from Emil though like you know to know from Emil though like you know is this Iron Dome working this laser in is this Iron Dome working this laser in is this Iron Dome working this laser in Israel system is this operational and if Israel system is this operational and if Israel system is this operational and if so is there any success metrics you can so is there any success metrics you can so is there any success metrics you can share around it share around it share around it >> I mean I think that the golden sorry the >> I mean I think that the golden sorry the >> I mean I think that the golden sorry the golden iron beam was the first golden iron beam was the first golden iron beam was the first generation of of the Israeli air air generation of of the Israeli air air generation of of the Israeli air air defense thing and then they're build defense thing and then they're build defense thing and then they're build building Iron Beam and and I think it's building Iron Beam and and I think it's building Iron Beam and and I think it's still earlyish but yeah it works they're still earlyish but yeah it works they're still earlyish but yeah it works they're they're a technologically sophisticated they're a technologically sophisticated they're a technologically sophisticated country that's very small that has like country that's very small that has like country that's very small that has like a reason to invest in these things and a reason to invest in these things and a reason to invest in these things and they have a lot of smart people to do they have a lot of smart people to do they have a lot of smart people to do them. So I think I think it's good. But them. So I think I think it's good. But them. So I think I think it's good. But >> does it primarily work on rockets? And I >> does it primarily work on rockets? And I >> does it primarily work on rockets? And I guess I just want to understand the guess I just want to understand the guess I just want to understand the logical evolution of this because in the logical evolution of this because in the logical evolution of this because in the 80s and 90s there was a lot of 80s and 90s there was a lot of 80s and 90s there was a lot of conversation about space-based lasers conversation about space-based lasers conversation about space-based lasers that could shoot ICBMs out of the sky to that could shoot ICBMs out of the sky to that could shoot ICBMs out of the sky to avoid, you know, global nuclear war and avoid, you know, global nuclear war and avoid, you know, global nuclear war and we could always take out every nuclear we could always take out every nuclear we could always take out every nuclear warhead delivered on an ICBM. Is that warhead delivered on an ICBM. Is that warhead delivered on an ICBM. Is that technology feasible? Is there a place in technology feasible? Is there a place in technology feasible? Is there a place in the near future where we could see the near future where we could see the near future where we could see basically maximal global deterrence basically maximal global deterrence basically maximal global deterrence using these systems, either groundbased using these systems, either groundbased using these systems, either groundbased or space-based to take out hypersonic or space-based to take out hypersonic or space-based to take out hypersonic missiles? missiles? missiles? >> I think I think the the harder but more >> I think I think the the harder but more >> I think I think the the harder but more valuable problem to solve would be the valuable problem to solve would be the valuable problem to solve would be the space-based way of doing it because then space-based way of doing it because then space-based way of doing it because then um you could get at any kind of almost um you could get at any kind of almost um you could get at any kind of almost any kind of threat that hits space, but any kind of threat that hits space, but any kind of threat that hits space, but you still need a ground layer because you still need a ground layer because you still need a ground layer because there's cruise missiles that could come there's cruise missiles that could come there's cruise missiles that could come at you, there's drones and so on. to so at you, there's drones and so on. to so at you, there's drones and so on. to so we call them multi-layers like how do we call them multi-layers like how do we call them multi-layers like how do you how do you get every kind of weapon you how do you get every kind of weapon you how do you get every kind of weapon at every layer at every layer at every layer but you know directed energy lasers as but you know directed energy lasers as but you know directed energy lasers as they get more powerful you could take on they get more powerful you could take on they get more powerful you could take on a bigger weapon farther away right so a bigger weapon farther away right so a bigger weapon farther away right so those uh so those technologies as that those uh so those technologies as that those uh so those technologies as that as they improve it gets more and more as they improve it gets more and more as they improve it gets more and more capable and I think all these defense capable and I think all these defense capable and I think all these defense systems uh are going to get more and systems uh are going to get more and systems uh are going to get more and more capable to get more and more of a more capable to get more and more of a more capable to get more and more of a variety of weapons at farther farther variety of weapons at farther farther variety of weapons at farther farther standoff which is what want you want it standoff which is what want you want it standoff which is what want you want it to you don't want to shoot it when it's to you don't want to shoot it when it's to you don't want to shoot it when it's right over Tel Aviv. You want to shoot right over Tel Aviv. You want to shoot right over Tel Aviv. You want to shoot it, you know, when it's still over their it, you know, when it's still over their it, you know, when it's still over their their land ideally. their land ideally. their land ideally. >> Are the laser interceptors in the field >> Are the laser interceptors in the field >> Are the laser interceptors in the field today. There's reports that they are. today. There's reports that they are. today. There's reports that they are. >> I I think there's some I think they've >> I I think there's some I think they've >> I I think there's some I think they've demonstrated some of them. demonstrated some of them. demonstrated some of them. >> Got it. And and is this our technology >> Got it. And and is this our technology >> Got it. And and is this our technology or Israel's technology? Because or Israel's technology? Because or Israel's technology? Because President Trump said, "Hey, that's President Trump said, "Hey, that's President Trump said, "Hey, that's actually our technology." Is there any actually our technology." Is there any actually our technology." Is there any insight there? insight there? insight there? >> We we have collaborations with Israel on >> We we have collaborations with Israel on >> We we have collaborations with Israel on some of this stuff. They have their own. some of this stuff. They have their own. some of this stuff. They have their own. We have our own. Um, so it's not this is We have our own. Um, so it's not this is We have our own. Um, so it's not this is uh but they're good at tech, we're good uh but they're good at tech, we're good uh but they're good at tech, we're good at tech. There's certain there's certain at tech. There's certain there's certain at tech. There's certain there's certain ways you get part of our system and part ways you get part of our system and part ways you get part of our system and part of their system because it's like a he of their system because it's like a he of their system because it's like a he it's a quickly evolving part of of it's a quickly evolving part of of it's a quickly evolving part of of science right now. How do you cohhere science right now. How do you cohhere science right now. How do you cohhere beams of light to like get distance? How beams of light to like get distance? How beams of light to like get distance? How to use high-owered microwave to like to use high-owered microwave to like to use high-owered microwave to like just drop drones in their tracks? Um just drop drones in their tracks? Um just drop drones in their tracks? Um there's lots of different ways to get at there's lots of different ways to get at there's lots of different ways to get at some of these things. Um and and yeah, a some of these things. Um and and yeah, a some of these things. Um and and yeah, a lot of it's ours. uh and a lot of and lot of it's ours. uh and a lot of and lot of it's ours. uh and a lot of and some of it's theirs. some of it's theirs. some of it's theirs. >> Yeah. And uh to to the earlier question, >> Yeah. And uh to to the earlier question, >> Yeah. And uh to to the earlier question, you know, I I am pro-regime change if it you know, I I am pro-regime change if it you know, I I am pro-regime change if it can be done thoughtfully and obviously can be done thoughtfully and obviously can be done thoughtfully and obviously isolating a dictator, that's the best isolating a dictator, that's the best isolating a dictator, that's the best thing you can do. We've done that thing you can do. We've done that thing you can do. We've done that successfully with, you know, Putin, Kim successfully with, you know, Putin, Kim successfully with, you know, Putin, Kim Jong-un, etc. Keep diplomacy up. But if Jong-un, etc. Keep diplomacy up. But if Jong-un, etc. Keep diplomacy up. But if there is a moment in time where you there is a moment in time where you there is a moment in time where you could free the people of Iran after 50 could free the people of Iran after 50 could free the people of Iran after 50 years of being subjugated by these years of being subjugated by these years of being subjugated by these lunatics and dictators, I'm all for it. lunatics and dictators, I'm all for it. lunatics and dictators, I'm all for it. And I actually trust President Trump to And I actually trust President Trump to And I actually trust President Trump to make that decision. I know this may make that decision. I know this may make that decision. I know this may sound crazy. People think like I'm a sound crazy. People think like I'm a sound crazy. People think like I'm a libtart or something because of the way libtart or something because of the way libtart or something because of the way my besties frame me on this program, my besties frame me on this program, my besties frame me on this program, which is completely inaccurate. I'm an which is completely inaccurate. I'm an which is completely inaccurate. I'm an independent. independent. independent. >> You are. >> You are. >> You are. >> I actually I'm completely independent >> I actually I'm completely independent >> I actually I'm completely independent and I am just based on my voting and I'm and I am just based on my voting and I'm and I am just based on my voting and I'm not on either one of these sides. I am not on either one of these sides. I am not on either one of these sides. I am pro President Trump and I trust his pro President Trump and I trust his pro President Trump and I trust his judgment. I think he has more judgment. I think he has more judgment. I think he has more information than us. I think you have information than us. I think you have information than us. I think you have more information. I actually trust you more information. I actually trust you more information. I actually trust you guys to do it thoughtfully and there guys to do it thoughtfully and there guys to do it thoughtfully and there obviously was a window here. Israel can obviously was a window here. Israel can obviously was a window here. Israel can have their own, you know, motivation. have their own, you know, motivation. have their own, you know, motivation. That could be the China motivation, but That could be the China motivation, but That could be the China motivation, but there's also spreading democracy, which there's also spreading democracy, which there's also spreading democracy, which might be the least of people's concerns might be the least of people's concerns might be the least of people's concerns here, but that's on the top of my list. here, but that's on the top of my list. here, but that's on the top of my list. I would like to see the people of Iran I would like to see the people of Iran I would like to see the people of Iran free. Just to build on your point, free. Just to build on your point, free. Just to build on your point, Jason, the thing that Emil said before, Jason, the thing that Emil said before, Jason, the thing that Emil said before, which I think is important as well, is which I think is important as well, is which I think is important as well, is we have an enormous amount of learnings we have an enormous amount of learnings we have an enormous amount of learnings about what happened in Iraq. Yeah. We about what happened in Iraq. Yeah. We about what happened in Iraq. Yeah. We also have a ton of learnings between the also have a ton of learnings between the also have a ton of learnings between the Iran Iraq war and a ton of learnings in Iran Iraq war and a ton of learnings in Iran Iraq war and a ton of learnings in 53 when US and the British deposed Mosad 53 when US and the British deposed Mosad 53 when US and the British deposed Mosad in the or at least foremented that and in the or at least foremented that and in the or at least foremented that and put the sha and then the sha was booted put the sha and then the sha was booted put the sha and then the sha was booted up. up. up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you take those three chapters in >> If you take those three chapters in >> If you take those three chapters in Iranian history or that regional Iranian history or that regional Iranian history or that regional history, there's a ton to learn. And to history, there's a ton to learn. And to history, there's a ton to learn. And to your point, there is a way to affect your point, there is a way to affect your point, there is a way to affect what we need to do without creating some what we need to do without creating some what we need to do without creating some 20-year forever war. There was an 20-year forever war. There was an 20-year forever war. There was an incredible tweet. I don't know if you incredible tweet. I don't know if you incredible tweet. I don't know if you guys saw this. Somebody said, "So every guys saw this. Somebody said, "So every guys saw this. Somebody said, "So every war doesn't have to be war doesn't have to be war doesn't have to be >> three decades and trillions of dollars >> three decades and trillions of dollars >> three decades and trillions of dollars to your friends in Virginia, Maryland, to your friends in Virginia, Maryland, to your friends in Virginia, Maryland, and DC. Did you guys see that tweet?" and DC. Did you guys see that tweet?" and DC. Did you guys see that tweet?" It's true. These things can be one and It's true. These things can be one and It's true. These things can be one and done in and out. done in and out. done in and out. And if President Trump succeeds here, I And if President Trump succeeds here, I And if President Trump succeeds here, I just want to also give him some flowers just want to also give him some flowers just want to also give him some flowers here. The people of Venezuela and the here. The people of Venezuela and the here. The people of Venezuela and the people of Iran being free represent people of Iran being free represent people of Iran being free represent about 5% of the people in the world about 5% of the people in the world about 5% of the people in the world living under an autocracy, under a living under an autocracy, under a living under an autocracy, under a dictator. If those both flip back to dictator. If those both flip back to dictator. If those both flip back to democracies, he'll have done more for democracies, he'll have done more for democracies, he'll have done more for the spread of democracy than any the spread of democracy than any the spread of democracy than any president for many decades, perhaps in president for many decades, perhaps in president for many decades, perhaps in our lifetime. This would be incredibly our lifetime. This would be incredibly our lifetime. This would be incredibly noble. Incredibly noble, incredibly noble. Incredibly noble, incredibly noble. Incredibly noble, incredibly just. And just. And just. And >> would you in the human rights set >> would you in the human rights set >> would you in the human rights set >> want him to get the Nobel then? >> want him to get the Nobel then? >> want him to get the Nobel then? >> Absolutely. Give him all the Nobels. >> Absolutely. Give him all the Nobels. >> Absolutely. Give him all the Nobels. Like literally if you can free people, Like literally if you can free people, Like literally if you can free people, >> all of them. Give him every prize. Give >> all of them. Give him every prize. Give >> all of them. Give him every prize. Give him an Oscar. him an Oscar. him an Oscar. >> Physics, chemistry, >> Physics, chemistry, >> Physics, chemistry, he can have everything. he can have everything. he can have everything. >> Physics, philosophy. >> Physics, philosophy. >> Physics, philosophy. >> Jay Cal's an independent. When's the >> Jay Cal's an independent. When's the >> Jay Cal's an independent. When's the last time you voted for a Republican last time you voted for a Republican last time you voted for a Republican presidential candidate? Just curious. presidential candidate? Just curious. presidential candidate? Just curious. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, yeah. yeah. yeah. >> Say it. Say it. >> Say it. Say it. >> Say it. Say it. >> No, no, no, no. Um, >> No, no, no, no. Um, >> No, no, no, no. Um, >> Montdale. >> Montdale. >> Montdale. >> No, no, I didn't. I would have voted >> No, no, I didn't. I would have voted >> No, no, I didn't. I would have voted for, if I was of age, I would have voted for, if I was of age, I would have voted for, if I was of age, I would have voted for um I wouldn't have voted for the for um I wouldn't have voted for the for um I wouldn't have voted for the Bushes. I voted for the moderates. Um, Bushes. I voted for the moderates. Um, Bushes. I voted for the moderates. Um, uh, uh, obviously Clinton and Obama. uh, uh, obviously Clinton and Obama. uh, uh, obviously Clinton and Obama. >> Oh, we're playing the would have, should >> Oh, we're playing the would have, should >> Oh, we're playing the would have, should have game. have game. have game. >> I would have voted for Reagan in >> I would have voted for Reagan in >> I would have voted for Reagan in >> I would have bought Nidia at $4. >> I would have bought Nidia at $4. >> I would have bought Nidia at $4. >> Well, no. And I I didn't vote for Kamla, >> Well, no. And I I didn't vote for Kamla, >> Well, no. And I I didn't vote for Kamla, so I'll leave it at that. But I voted so I'll leave it at that. But I voted so I'll leave it at that. But I voted probably probably probably at that. Why don't you say that you at that. Why don't you say that you at that. Why don't you say that you voted for President Trump? voted for President Trump? voted for President Trump? >> Just say you voted for President Trump. >> Just say you voted for President Trump. >> Just say you voted for President Trump. I don't want to complicate things, I don't want to complicate things, I don't want to complicate things, >> but you did. So, just say it. >> but you did. So, just say it. >> but you did. So, just say it. >> I didn't vote for Kla. I'll leave it at >> I didn't vote for Kla. I'll leave it at >> I didn't vote for Kla. I'll leave it at that. All right. that. All right. that. All right. >> It's so weird that you that you'll say >> It's so weird that you that you'll say >> It's so weird that you that you'll say you're a moderate, but you won't say you're a moderate, but you won't say you're a moderate, but you won't say that you voted for President Trump. that you voted for President Trump. that you voted for President Trump. >> I am supporting President Trump in about >> I am supporting President Trump in about >> I am supporting President Trump in about 60 70% of what he does. Uh, let's leave 60 70% of what he does. Uh, let's leave 60 70% of what he does. Uh, let's leave it at that. Three, two. All right. Let's it at that. Three, two. All right. Let's it at that. Three, two. All right. Let's talk economic talk economic talk economic impact of oil and insurance. Oil has impact of oil and insurance. Oil has impact of oil and insurance. Oil has rose to $84 a barrel Wednesday rose to $84 a barrel Wednesday rose to $84 a barrel Wednesday straightfor straightfor straightfor basically a standstill at this point. basically a standstill at this point. basically a standstill at this point. Here's the clip. You can see the traffic Here's the clip. You can see the traffic Here's the clip. You can see the traffic slowing down and then hey, some of the slowing down and then hey, some of the slowing down and then hey, some of the dots are even going away. That could be dots are even going away. That could be dots are even going away. That could be uh ships were taking out. uh ships were taking out. uh ships were taking out. Unless the straight opens, 3.3 million Unless the straight opens, 3.3 million Unless the straight opens, 3.3 million barrels of daily production would be barrels of daily production would be barrels of daily production would be lost early next week. And then there's lost early next week. And then there's lost early next week. And then there's insurance companies. They've all insurance companies. They've all insurance companies. They've all cancelled cancelled cancelled the war risk coverage of vessels in the the war risk coverage of vessels in the the war risk coverage of vessels in the Gulf effective March 5th. Super tanker Gulf effective March 5th. Super tanker Gulf effective March 5th. Super tanker traffic dropped 94% within the first 48 traffic dropped 94% within the first 48 traffic dropped 94% within the first 48 hours. Trump said the US would provide hours. Trump said the US would provide hours. Trump said the US would provide political risk insurance for all political risk insurance for all political risk insurance for all maritime trade through the Gulf, maritime trade through the Gulf, maritime trade through the Gulf, especially energy. Freeberg, your especially energy. Freeberg, your especially energy. Freeberg, your thoughts on the economic second order thoughts on the economic second order thoughts on the economic second order effects that we're starting to effects that we're starting to effects that we're starting to experience here and over the next four experience here and over the next four experience here and over the next four weeks could be um you know intense and weeks could be um you know intense and weeks could be um you know intense and acute. acute. acute. >> The modern insurance market emerged >> The modern insurance market emerged >> The modern insurance market emerged specifically to solve the risks of specifically to solve the risks of specifically to solve the risks of maritime trade. So in the 17th century, maritime trade. So in the 17th century, maritime trade. So in the 17th century, Lloyds of London, which was a coffee Lloyds of London, which was a coffee Lloyds of London, which was a coffee shop in London, where all the maritime shop in London, where all the maritime shop in London, where all the maritime traders would get together and they talk traders would get together and they talk traders would get together and they talk about, hey, what's the safest route so about, hey, what's the safest route so about, hey, what's the safest route so pirates don't get our ship and so you pirates don't get our ship and so you pirates don't get our ship and so you don't run into weather. That's where don't run into weather. That's where don't run into weather. That's where they would kind of have these they would kind of have these they would kind of have these conversations and eventually they conversations and eventually they conversations and eventually they started underwriting the risks of the started underwriting the risks of the started underwriting the risks of the shipping uh routes and giving each other shipping uh routes and giving each other shipping uh routes and giving each other guarantees. They said, "Hey, if you make guarantees. They said, "Hey, if you make guarantees. They said, "Hey, if you make this route, great. You pay me a certain this route, great. You pay me a certain this route, great. You pay me a certain amount and if you don't make the route, amount and if you don't make the route, amount and if you don't make the route, I'll pay you the loft value." And that's I'll pay you the loft value." And that's I'll pay you the loft value." And that's how Lloyds of London, which is the kind how Lloyds of London, which is the kind how Lloyds of London, which is the kind of world's biggest reinsurance market, of world's biggest reinsurance market, of world's biggest reinsurance market, started today. Lloyds of London has 78 started today. Lloyds of London has 78 started today. Lloyds of London has 78 what are called syndicate members. And what are called syndicate members. And what are called syndicate members. And these are kind of these pools of these are kind of these pools of these are kind of these pools of reinsurance that underwrite big crazy reinsurance that underwrite big crazy reinsurance that underwrite big crazy risks like maritime insurance for folks risks like maritime insurance for folks risks like maritime insurance for folks that are moving oil tankers through the that are moving oil tankers through the that are moving oil tankers through the straight of Hermuz, which the IRGC just straight of Hermuz, which the IRGC just straight of Hermuz, which the IRGC just announced they're shutting down. When announced they're shutting down. When announced they're shutting down. When the IRGC announced that they were the IRGC announced that they were the IRGC announced that they were shutting down the straight of Hermuz, shutting down the straight of Hermuz, shutting down the straight of Hermuz, there's a significant risk of all the there's a significant risk of all the there's a significant risk of all the mines going in the straight and the mines going in the straight and the mines going in the straight and the ships getting attacked and blown up. So ships getting attacked and blown up. So ships getting attacked and blown up. So loss of value. The insurance premium loss of value. The insurance premium loss of value. The insurance premium spiked initially from a quarter% so spiked initially from a quarter% so spiked initially from a quarter% so 0.25% of the value of the ship to 1.25%. 0.25% of the value of the ship to 1.25%. 0.25% of the value of the ship to 1.25%. So it went up by like 5x and so folks So it went up by like 5x and so folks So it went up by like 5x and so folks had to pay a lot more of the value of had to pay a lot more of the value of had to pay a lot more of the value of their ship in order to continue the their ship in order to continue the their ship in order to continue the routes and get guarantees that they'll routes and get guarantees that they'll routes and get guarantees that they'll make it through. And then all of the make it through. And then all of the make it through. And then all of the markets started to shut down. So once markets started to shut down. So once markets started to shut down. So once the conflict got heavier, everyone said, the conflict got heavier, everyone said, the conflict got heavier, everyone said, "Let's shut this thing down." And that's "Let's shut this thing down." And that's "Let's shut this thing down." And that's a obviously a massive risk to energy a obviously a massive risk to energy a obviously a massive risk to energy prices globally, which drives inflation prices globally, which drives inflation prices globally, which drives inflation and puts US economic security at risk. and puts US economic security at risk. and puts US economic security at risk. And so this is a brilliant move. I would And so this is a brilliant move. I would And so this is a brilliant move. I would say the US government stepped in with say the US government stepped in with say the US government stepped in with the US International Development Finance the US International Development Finance the US International Development Finance Corporation, which was actually funny Corporation, which was actually funny Corporation, which was actually funny enough started a couple of years ago enough started a couple of years ago enough started a couple of years ago like in 2019 or something like that as a like in 2019 or something like that as a like in 2019 or something like that as a kind of output of one of the agencies kind of output of one of the agencies kind of output of one of the agencies that provided credit from USAD. much that provided credit from USAD. much that provided credit from USAD. much talked about USA ID. And so they're talked about USA ID. And so they're talked about USA ID. And so they're they're leveraging the credit capacity they're leveraging the credit capacity they're leveraging the credit capacity of this old US ID agency to go out and of this old US ID agency to go out and of this old US ID agency to go out and say to all the shipping companies, hey, say to all the shipping companies, hey, say to all the shipping companies, hey, we'll give you insurance on your routes. we'll give you insurance on your routes. we'll give you insurance on your routes. And the reason they need it is the And the reason they need it is the And the reason they need it is the shipping companies are levered. They shipping companies are levered. They shipping companies are levered. They take on debt to buy the ships. And the take on debt to buy the ships. And the take on debt to buy the ships. And the debtors require that they have insurance debtors require that they have insurance debtors require that they have insurance or else they're not allowed to take the or else they're not allowed to take the or else they're not allowed to take the routes because the debtors are routes because the debtors are routes because the debtors are ultimately going to be out the money. ultimately going to be out the money. ultimately going to be out the money. And so the shipping companies themselves And so the shipping companies themselves And so the shipping companies themselves need to have insurance. And so this need to have insurance. And so this need to have insurance. And so this provides a market that has now gone provides a market that has now gone provides a market that has now gone away. Very smart. And ultimately a lot away. Very smart. And ultimately a lot away. Very smart. And ultimately a lot of people are saying this could actually of people are saying this could actually of people are saying this could actually reshore or onshore maritime insurance reshore or onshore maritime insurance reshore or onshore maritime insurance back to the United States and create an back to the United States and create an back to the United States and create an entirely new insurance industry here in entirely new insurance industry here in entirely new insurance industry here in the US that has historically been served the US that has historically been served the US that has historically been served almost exclusively by European almost exclusively by European almost exclusively by European syndicates and European partners. And it syndicates and European partners. And it syndicates and European partners. And it actually creates a big economic actually creates a big economic actually creates a big economic opportunity as this war dies down for opportunity as this war dies down for opportunity as this war dies down for American insurance companies and American insurance companies and American insurance companies and American brokers to basically be the American brokers to basically be the American brokers to basically be the underwriters and the guarantors of this underwriters and the guarantors of this underwriters and the guarantors of this sort of insurance and create a new sort of insurance and create a new sort of insurance and create a new industry. So that's super super industry. So that's super super industry. So that's super super interesting kind of side story on what's interesting kind of side story on what's interesting kind of side story on what's going on here. All right, some breaking going on here. All right, some breaking going on here. All right, some breaking news here folks via Bloomberg. The news here folks via Bloomberg. The news here folks via Bloomberg. The Pentagon has formally notified Anthropic Pentagon has formally notified Anthropic Pentagon has formally notified Anthropic that it's been deemed a supply chain that it's been deemed a supply chain that it's been deemed a supply chain risk. This has never happened to an risk. This has never happened to an risk. This has never happened to an American company. It has happened to American company. It has happened to American company. It has happened to Russian companies. uh and Chinese Russian companies. uh and Chinese Russian companies. uh and Chinese companies Huawei and for background the companies Huawei and for background the companies Huawei and for background the department of war cancelled Anthropic department of war cancelled Anthropic department of war cancelled Anthropic $200 million contract on Friday and said $200 million contract on Friday and said $200 million contract on Friday and said they would do this. The dispute came they would do this. The dispute came they would do this. The dispute came down to two clauses according to sources down to two clauses according to sources down to two clauses according to sources and we have one of the principles here. and we have one of the principles here. and we have one of the principles here. So we will hear directly from him in a So we will hear directly from him in a So we will hear directly from him in a moment. Anthropic had two concerns. moment. Anthropic had two concerns. moment. Anthropic had two concerns. Number one, fully autonomous weapons aka Number one, fully autonomous weapons aka Number one, fully autonomous weapons aka murderbots. As we previously discussed, murderbots. As we previously discussed, murderbots. As we previously discussed, Daario didn't feel that their technology Daario didn't feel that their technology Daario didn't feel that their technology was reliable yet and wanted some was reliable yet and wanted some was reliable yet and wanted some assurances. The second thing Anthropic assurances. The second thing Anthropic assurances. The second thing Anthropic said was uh they were concerned about said was uh they were concerned about said was uh they were concerned about mass surveillance of Americans because mass surveillance of Americans because mass surveillance of Americans because they believe this technology is uniquely they believe this technology is uniquely they believe this technology is uniquely powerful and uh it's can do things powerful and uh it's can do things powerful and uh it's can do things beyond what a series of webcams or a beyond what a series of webcams or a beyond what a series of webcams or a network of 7-Eleven cameras can do. network of 7-Eleven cameras can do. network of 7-Eleven cameras can do. Pentagon said they wanted all lawful Pentagon said they wanted all lawful Pentagon said they wanted all lawful use. Dario, you're welcome to come on use. Dario, you're welcome to come on use. Dario, you're welcome to come on the program next week or any time to the program next week or any time to the program next week or any time to give your side of the story, but this give your side of the story, but this give your side of the story, but this week we have Emil. Emil, your thoughts week we have Emil. Emil, your thoughts week we have Emil. Emil, your thoughts and explain to us what happened here and and explain to us what happened here and and explain to us what happened here and how this broke down. how this broke down. how this broke down. >> It's worth a little history, short >> It's worth a little history, short >> It's worth a little history, short history. So, history. So, history. So, if you remember the Biden executive if you remember the Biden executive if you remember the Biden executive order on AI, which was this crazy order on AI, which was this crazy order on AI, which was this crazy executive order that limited the amount executive order that limited the amount executive order that limited the amount of compute any model company could do of compute any model company could do of compute any model company could do and was essentially grandfathered in a and was essentially grandfathered in a and was essentially grandfathered in a few a small number of AI companies that few a small number of AI companies that few a small number of AI companies that they were going to designate the winners they were going to designate the winners they were going to designate the winners and everyone else was out so they could and everyone else was out so they could and everyone else was out so they could have more control on what they did. Um, have more control on what they did. Um, have more control on what they did. Um, Anthropic was one of those winners. Um, Anthropic was one of those winners. Um, Anthropic was one of those winners. Um, and then they were smart. act as a good and then they were smart. act as a good and then they were smart. act as a good sales strategy to sell in to the most sales strategy to sell in to the most sales strategy to sell in to the most sensitive parts of the US government sensitive parts of the US government sensitive parts of the US government like all of our combatant commands sent like all of our combatant commands sent like all of our combatant commands sent central command that's doing the Iran central command that's doing the Iran central command that's doing the Iran fight now the Indoaccom command which is fight now the Indoaccom command which is fight now the Indoaccom command which is sort of responsible for China several of sort of responsible for China several of sort of responsible for China several of the intelligence agencies and they did the intelligence agencies and they did the intelligence agencies and they did forward deployed engineers palunteer forward deployed engineers palunteer forward deployed engineers palunteer style so they're very got very sticky um style so they're very got very sticky um style so they're very got very sticky um to the workflows and all that and so I to the workflows and all that and so I to the workflows and all that and so I came in and I got the AI portfolio for came in and I got the AI portfolio for came in and I got the AI portfolio for department in August and I said, I just department in August and I said, I just department in August and I said, I just want to see the contracts. You know, the want to see the contracts. You know, the want to see the contracts. You know, the old lawyer in me and I looked at old lawyer in me and I looked at old lawyer in me and I looked at contracts. I was like, holy cow, they contracts. I was like, holy cow, they contracts. I was like, holy cow, they say you can't use them for you can't use say you can't use them for you can't use say you can't use them for you can't use them to plan a a kinetic strike. You them to plan a a kinetic strike. You them to plan a a kinetic strike. You can't use their AI model to move a can't use their AI model to move a can't use their AI model to move a satellite. You can't There was a a 20 satellite. You can't There was a a 20 satellite. You can't There was a a 20 page. page. page. >> You can't do a war game scenario with >> You can't do a war game scenario with >> You can't do a war game scenario with it. it. it. >> You could do a scenario, but you can't >> You could do a scenario, but you can't >> You could do a scenario, but you can't like let's suppose you're writing a plan like let's suppose you're writing a plan like let's suppose you're writing a plan saying like if this happens, here's what saying like if this happens, here's what saying like if this happens, here's what we would do. and it might involve a we would do. and it might involve a we would do. and it might involve a kinetic strike which causes harm to a kinetic strike which causes harm to a kinetic strike which causes harm to a human. So like, well, what do you think human. So like, well, what do you think human. So like, well, what do you think these folks do? You know, we use the these folks do? You know, we use the these folks do? You know, we use the Department of War. This is what we do. Department of War. This is what we do. Department of War. This is what we do. And so I said, okay, well, I've got to And so I said, okay, well, I've got to And so I said, okay, well, I've got to number one, have direct relationships number one, have direct relationships number one, have direct relationships with these companies, not just through with these companies, not just through with these companies, not just through Palunteer, because I want to use it more Palunteer, because I want to use it more Palunteer, because I want to use it more broadly. And then number two, I need to broadly. And then number two, I need to broadly. And then number two, I need to have the terms of service be rational have the terms of service be rational have the terms of service be rational relative to our mission set. So we relative to our mission set. So we relative to our mission set. So we started these negotiations and and took started these negotiations and and took started these negotiations and and took three months and I had to sort of give three months and I had to sort of give three months and I had to sort of give them scenarios about like this Chinese them scenarios about like this Chinese them scenarios about like this Chinese hypersonic missile example. They're hypersonic missile example. They're hypersonic missile example. They're like, "Okay, we'll give you an exception like, "Okay, we'll give you an exception like, "Okay, we'll give you an exception for that." Well, how about this drone for that." Well, how about this drone for that." Well, how about this drone swarm? We'll give you an exception for swarm? We'll give you an exception for swarm? We'll give you an exception for that. And I was like, "The exceptions that. And I was like, "The exceptions that. And I was like, "The exceptions doesn't work. I I can't predict for the doesn't work. I I can't predict for the doesn't work. I I can't predict for the next 20 years what all the things we next 20 years what all the things we next 20 years what all the things we might do use AI for." Um, and so so all might do use AI for." Um, and so so all might do use AI for." Um, and so so all lawful use seems like a good thing. If lawful use seems like a good thing. If lawful use seems like a good thing. If Congress wants to act, great. We have Congress wants to act, great. We have Congress wants to act, great. We have our own internal policies like we'll our own internal policies like we'll our own internal policies like we'll follow them. We're not knuckle draggers follow them. We're not knuckle draggers follow them. We're not knuckle draggers here. We want we don't want to hurt here. We want we don't want to hurt here. We want we don't want to hurt people unnecessarily. So, you know, it's people unnecessarily. So, you know, it's people unnecessarily. So, you know, it's our province to decide how we fight and our province to decide how we fight and our province to decide how we fight and win wars um so long as they're lawful. win wars um so long as they're lawful. win wars um so long as they're lawful. And I think at some point it turned into And I think at some point it turned into And I think at some point it turned into a PR game for them because they were not a PR game for them because they were not a PR game for them because they were not going to win this intellectual battle of going to win this intellectual battle of going to win this intellectual battle of well, we're going to stop you. we're well, we're going to stop you. we're well, we're going to stop you. we're going to use our judgment because we going to use our judgment because we going to use our judgment because we think Congress is behind and impose it think Congress is behind and impose it think Congress is behind and impose it on the US military. And it became this on the US military. And it became this on the US military. And it became this like let's find the issues that are most like let's find the issues that are most like let's find the issues that are most inflammatory, robot weapons and mass inflammatory, robot weapons and mass inflammatory, robot weapons and mass surveillance. I mean, like we're the surveillance. I mean, like we're the surveillance. I mean, like we're the Department of War. We're not the FBI. Department of War. We're not the FBI. Department of War. We're not the FBI. We're not Homeland Security. We're not We're not Homeland Security. We're not We're not Homeland Security. We're not >> You're not allowed to legally spy on >> You're not allowed to legally spy on >> You're not allowed to legally spy on Americans. Americans. Americans. >> Yeah. You're not you're not. So it's so >> Yeah. You're not you're not. So it's so >> Yeah. You're not you're not. So it's so so you're like and then what it came so you're like and then what it came so you're like and then what it came down to on that issue just as an down to on that issue just as an down to on that issue just as an anecdote is they didn't want us to bulk anecdote is they didn't want us to bulk anecdote is they didn't want us to bulk collect public information on people collect public information on people collect public information on people using their AI system and they wrote it using their AI system and they wrote it using their AI system and they wrote it in a way that I was like so you're in a way that I was like so you're in a way that I was like so you're telling me before we got to bulk collect telling me before we got to bulk collect telling me before we got to bulk collect if someone types in you know Shimat's at if someone types in you know Shimat's at if someone types in you know Shimat's at LinkedIn it's I'm using public available LinkedIn it's I'm using public available LinkedIn it's I'm using public available information that I would be violating information that I would be violating information that I would be violating your terms of service like yeah well your terms of service like yeah well your terms of service like yeah well okay let's rewrite it. was months of okay let's rewrite it. was months of okay let's rewrite it. was months of this like stuff. Um, which which was this like stuff. Um, which which was this like stuff. Um, which which was sort of interminable and then the sort of interminable and then the sort of interminable and then the trigger point was after the Maduro raid, trigger point was after the Maduro raid, trigger point was after the Maduro raid, one of their execs called Palanteer who one of their execs called Palanteer who one of their execs called Palanteer who we buy ourselves through and asked them we buy ourselves through and asked them we buy ourselves through and asked them uh was our software used in that raid uh was our software used in that raid uh was our software used in that raid which is by the way classified which is by the way classified which is by the way classified information anyway. So we're trying to information anyway. So we're trying to information anyway. So we're trying to get classified information and implying get classified information and implying get classified information and implying that if there was used in that raid that that if there was used in that raid that that if there was used in that raid that that might violate their terms of that might violate their terms of that might violate their terms of service. So they wanted to enforce, this service. So they wanted to enforce, this service. So they wanted to enforce, this is very important here. Yeah. is very important here. Yeah. is very important here. Yeah. >> They wanted to enforce their terms of >> They wanted to enforce their terms of >> They wanted to enforce their terms of service. They went behind your back to service. They went behind your back to service. They went behind your back to try to collect information to then try to collect information to then try to collect information to then >> maybe pull your license for their >> maybe pull your license for their >> maybe pull your license for their technology. technology. technology. >> But you know, and it wasn't by behind my >> But you know, and it wasn't by behind my >> But you know, and it wasn't by behind my back. I don't want to accuse them of back. I don't want to accuse them of back. I don't want to accuse them of that. Palunteer is the prime contractor that. Palunteer is the prime contractor that. Palunteer is the prime contractor this sub. Um, but it raised enough alarm this sub. Um, but it raised enough alarm this sub. Um, but it raised enough alarm with Palenteer who's got a trusted with Palenteer who's got a trusted with Palenteer who's got a trusted relationship with the department to tell relationship with the department to tell relationship with the department to tell me and I'm like, "Holy, what if this me and I'm like, "Holy, what if this me and I'm like, "Holy, what if this software went down, some guard rail software went down, some guard rail software went down, some guard rail kicked up, some refusal happened for the kicked up, some refusal happened for the kicked up, some refusal happened for the next fight like this one and we left our next fight like this one and we left our next fight like this one and we left our people at risk and I had so I went to people at risk and I had so I went to people at risk and I had so I went to Secretary Hath. said this would happen. Secretary Hath. said this would happen. Secretary Hath. said this would happen. And that was like a wo moment for the And that was like a wo moment for the And that was like a wo moment for the whole leadership at the Pentagon that whole leadership at the Pentagon that whole leadership at the Pentagon that we're potentially so dependent on a we're potentially so dependent on a we're potentially so dependent on a software provider without another software provider without another software provider without another alternative that has the right or alternative that has the right or alternative that has the right or ability to do to not only shut it off, ability to do to not only shut it off, ability to do to not only shut it off, maybe it's a rogue developer who could maybe it's a rogue developer who could maybe it's a rogue developer who could poison the model to make it not do what poison the model to make it not do what poison the model to make it not do what you want uh at the time or sort of trick you want uh at the time or sort of trick you want uh at the time or sort of trick you because you have to trick it. I mean you because you have to trick it. I mean you because you have to trick it. I mean all these things that we know we were all these things that we know we were all these things that we know we were about models or hallucinate purposefully about models or hallucinate purposefully about models or hallucinate purposefully or do or not follow instructions like or do or not follow instructions like or do or not follow instructions like some insider threat stuff. So then that some insider threat stuff. So then that some insider threat stuff. So then that culminated in the Tuesday kind of culminated in the Tuesday kind of culminated in the Tuesday kind of dramatic meeting with Hexath and dramatic meeting with Hexath and dramatic meeting with Hexath and Secretary Hexath and me and and Daario Secretary Hexath and me and and Daario Secretary Hexath and me and and Daario um with the Friday deadline that that um with the Friday deadline that that um with the Friday deadline that that got blown and I never thought they got blown and I never thought they got blown and I never thought they really wanted to make it. M is is the really wanted to make it. M is is the really wanted to make it. M is is the model entirely hosted by Anthropic or model entirely hosted by Anthropic or model entirely hosted by Anthropic or just explain to us technically does this just explain to us technically does this just explain to us technically does this sit in a cloud that Palunteer runs for sit in a cloud that Palunteer runs for sit in a cloud that Palunteer runs for you guys? Um is there really technically you guys? Um is there really technically you guys? Um is there really technically a way that employees at Anthropic could a way that employees at Anthropic could a way that employees at Anthropic could kind of interfere intervene in the use kind of interfere intervene in the use kind of interfere intervene in the use of the model? of the model? of the model? >> Yeah. So they put their model in AWS >> Yeah. So they put their model in AWS >> Yeah. So they put their model in AWS GovCloud GovCloud GovCloud >> GovCloud. Yeah. >> GovCloud. Yeah. >> GovCloud. Yeah. >> And then Palunteer serves it from there >> And then Palunteer serves it from there >> And then Palunteer serves it from there and they refresh it. They held the and they refresh it. They held the and they refresh it. They held the control plane for the model. So, so control plane for the model. So, so control plane for the model. So, so yeah, yeah, yeah, >> they can change the model weights if >> they can change the model weights if >> they can change the model weights if they want. They can do whatever they they want. They can do whatever they they want. They can do whatever they want. want. want. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The insight into this thing is >> The insight into this thing is >> The insight into this thing is unbelievable. Not just governments, but unbelievable. Not just governments, but unbelievable. Not just governments, but now if you're running a company, the now if you're running a company, the now if you're running a company, the reality is that what anthropics showed, reality is that what anthropics showed, reality is that what anthropics showed, which by the way is their right at some which by the way is their right at some which by the way is their right at some level, is that they are going to have a level, is that they are going to have a level, is that they are going to have a political perspective and a set of terms political perspective and a set of terms political perspective and a set of terms that reflect their philosophy and that that reflect their philosophy and that that reflect their philosophy and that that philosophy can change on a dime. that philosophy can change on a dime. that philosophy can change on a dime. But what the government did was also But what the government did was also But what the government did was also completely reasonable, which is we can't completely reasonable, which is we can't completely reasonable, which is we can't rely on you if you're going to be rely on you if you're going to be rely on you if you're going to be completely unreliable and completely unreliable and completely unreliable and disallow things that are reasonable. disallow things that are reasonable. disallow things that are reasonable. I'll give you a different example to I'll give you a different example to I'll give you a different example to make the point. make the point. make the point. There's a state that wants to run some There's a state that wants to run some There's a state that wants to run some healthcare program, but they're a healthcare program, but they're a healthcare program, but they're a prolife state. prolife state. prolife state. You can't conduct abortions in that You can't conduct abortions in that You can't conduct abortions in that state. Does that mean that the anthropic state. Does that mean that the anthropic state. Does that mean that the anthropic engineers can decide, you know what, engineers can decide, you know what, engineers can decide, you know what, we're pro-choice, so we're going to we're pro-choice, so we're going to we're pro-choice, so we're going to change the access model and the change the access model and the change the access model and the capability of that model inside of that capability of that model inside of that capability of that model inside of that state. Is that allowed? Should that be state. Is that allowed? Should that be state. Is that allowed? Should that be allowed? At one level, you'd say, "This allowed? At one level, you'd say, "This allowed? At one level, you'd say, "This is a private company. They're allowed to is a private company. They're allowed to is a private company. They're allowed to choose." But what that really means is choose." But what that really means is choose." But what that really means is for the government, for all the states, for the government, for all the states, for the government, for all the states, for any city, for every company, you for any city, for every company, you for any city, for every company, you cannot choose to only use one of these cannot choose to only use one of these cannot choose to only use one of these things because it is just a matter of things because it is just a matter of things because it is just a matter of time until some person inside of one of time until some person inside of one of time until some person inside of one of these companies goes on some lunatic these companies goes on some lunatic these companies goes on some lunatic moral tirade and then jeopardizes your moral tirade and then jeopardizes your moral tirade and then jeopardizes your business against something that is business against something that is business against something that is nothing about law, but is everything nothing about law, but is everything nothing about law, but is everything about subjectivity. That is the huge about subjectivity. That is the huge about subjectivity. That is the huge thing that this thing tore open this thing that this thing tore open this thing that this thing tore open this weekend. So if you're not figuring out weekend. So if you're not figuring out weekend. So if you're not figuring out how to be multimodel and agnostic across how to be multimodel and agnostic across how to be multimodel and agnostic across these models, you're taking on enormous these models, you're taking on enormous these models, you're taking on enormous business risk after Friday because you business risk after Friday because you business risk after Friday because you can't tolerate that these folks will do can't tolerate that these folks will do can't tolerate that these folks will do that. It's too critical of a technology. that. It's too critical of a technology. that. It's too critical of a technology. By the way, this is deplatforming all By the way, this is deplatforming all By the way, this is deplatforming all over again. Remember what happened when over again. Remember what happened when over again. Remember what happened when you didn't like what was said? Now all you didn't like what was said? Now all you didn't like what was said? Now all of a sudden you were deplatformed. This of a sudden you were deplatformed. This of a sudden you were deplatformed. This is that times a thousand because this is is that times a thousand because this is is that times a thousand because this is not about posting on social media. This not about posting on social media. This not about posting on social media. This is about using fundamental technology to is about using fundamental technology to is about using fundamental technology to either advantage or disadvantage your either advantage or disadvantage your either advantage or disadvantage your business. Emil. business. Emil. business. Emil. >> Yeah. I mean, I think I described it the >> Yeah. I mean, I think I described it the >> Yeah. I mean, I think I described it the other way the other day as these c the other way the other day as these c the other way the other day as these c the leaders of these companies say they're leaders of these companies say they're leaders of these companies say they're going to cause 50% white collar going to cause 50% white collar going to cause 50% white collar unemployment. This is as powerful as a unemployment. This is as powerful as a unemployment. This is as powerful as a nuclear bomb. You it's like 50,000 nuclear bomb. You it's like 50,000 nuclear bomb. You it's like 50,000 geniuses in a data center. So you could geniuses in a data center. So you could geniuses in a data center. So you could have a small country coers the world have a small country coers the world have a small country coers the world into its whatever. So you're like, "Holy into its whatever. So you're like, "Holy into its whatever. So you're like, "Holy cow." All right. So this is a general cow." All right. So this is a general cow." All right. So this is a general substrate of intelligence of technology substrate of intelligence of technology substrate of intelligence of technology that's applicable to a lot of things. that's applicable to a lot of things. that's applicable to a lot of things. Very generalized. It's not like workday Very generalized. It's not like workday Very generalized. It's not like workday like HR software we could just use a like HR software we could just use a like HR software we could just use a competitor. This is going to be part of competitor. This is going to be part of competitor. This is going to be part of our everyday life in so many different our everyday life in so many different our everyday life in so many different ways and the controlling the like what ways and the controlling the like what ways and the controlling the like what whether it has a moral conscience. I whether it has a moral conscience. I whether it has a moral conscience. I mean anthropic has its own constitution. mean anthropic has its own constitution. mean anthropic has its own constitution. It has its own soul. It's not the US It has its own soul. It's not the US It has its own soul. It's not the US constitution. So you're subject to that constitution. So you're subject to that constitution. So you're subject to that plus whatever whims and how that plus whatever whims and how that plus whatever whims and how that changes. And that's a scary thought for changes. And that's a scary thought for changes. And that's a scary thought for for Americans generally. Um and I think for Americans generally. Um and I think for Americans generally. Um and I think that did come through a little bit that did come through a little bit that did come through a little bit today. And in the coming years it's today. And in the coming years it's today. And in the coming years it's going to be a bigger and bigger deal. going to be a bigger and bigger deal. going to be a bigger and bigger deal. >> So take us through OpenAI software, >> So take us through OpenAI software, >> So take us through OpenAI software, Gemini software and Gro software. Have Gemini software and Gro software. Have Gemini software and Gro software. Have they push back on any use or are they they push back on any use or are they they push back on any use or are they like Dell or Apple? They sell you a like Dell or Apple? They sell you a like Dell or Apple? They sell you a computer and you have the computer and computer and you have the computer and computer and you have the computer and you can use it as you will. Have any of you can use it as you will. Have any of you can use it as you will. Have any of those given you any push back? So those given you any push back? So those given you any push back? So Grock's all in for all awful use cases Grock's all in for all awful use cases Grock's all in for all awful use cases across all classified and unclassified across all classified and unclassified across all classified and unclassified networks as you'd expect because and you networks as you'd expect because and you networks as you'd expect because and you know Elon's truth seeking. We want truth know Elon's truth seeking. We want truth know Elon's truth seeking. We want truth and Department of War. We don't want and Department of War. We don't want and Department of War. We don't want ideology ideology ideology >> because ideology will mess with >> because ideology will mess with >> because ideology will mess with operational decisions like you you don't operational decisions like you you don't operational decisions like you you don't want anyone to anything to be fake or want anyone to anything to be fake or want anyone to anything to be fake or tilted. tilted. tilted. >> We're we're surgeing Google and >> We're we're surgeing Google and >> We're we're surgeing Google and >> we have them we have Google for all >> we have them we have Google for all >> we have them we have Google for all lawful use cases on on classified lawful use cases on on classified lawful use cases on on classified networks and we're trying to move them networks and we're trying to move them networks and we're trying to move them to classified networks. are just they to classified networks. are just they to classified networks. are just they have to build out infrastructure because have to build out infrastructure because have to build out infrastructure because the stuff's complicated. the stuff's complicated. the stuff's complicated. >> So they're in compliance in terms of >> So they're in compliance in terms of >> So they're in compliance in terms of what you're looking for as a partner. what you're looking for as a partner. what you're looking for as a partner. And then And then And then >> I guess the last one is OpenAI and Sam >> I guess the last one is OpenAI and Sam >> I guess the last one is OpenAI and Sam seems to be seems to be seems to be >> just characteristically playing both >> just characteristically playing both >> just characteristically playing both sides a bit trying sides a bit trying sides a bit trying to his credit to his credit to his credit um I called him and said I need a um I called him and said I need a um I called him and said I need a solution if this thing goes sideways. I solution if this thing goes sideways. I solution if this thing goes sideways. I need multiple solutions. I'd like you to need multiple solutions. I'd like you to need multiple solutions. I'd like you to be one of them. And he's like okay well be one of them. And he's like okay well be one of them. And he's like okay well what can I do for the country? is like, what can I do for the country? is like, what can I do for the country? is like, I need to get you up running as soon as I need to get you up running as soon as I need to get you up running as soon as I can. And he was he was trying to I can. And he was he was trying to I can. And he was he was trying to protect anthropic to his credit. He was protect anthropic to his credit. He was protect anthropic to his credit. He was like, don't do don't call him a supply like, don't do don't call him a supply like, don't do don't call him a supply chain risk. That's bad for the industry. chain risk. That's bad for the industry. chain risk. That's bad for the industry. Let me maybe I can negotiate terms that Let me maybe I can negotiate terms that Let me maybe I can negotiate terms that they'll find acceptable. Uh but he's in they'll find acceptable. Uh but he's in they'll find acceptable. Uh but he's in the middle because they're they compete the middle because they're they compete the middle because they're they compete for the same researchers. So, a lot of for the same researchers. So, a lot of for the same researchers. So, a lot of this comes down to this thousand this comes down to this thousand this comes down to this thousand researchers like baseball players that researchers like baseball players that researchers like baseball players that get traded between these companies. get traded between these companies. get traded between these companies. >> Moneyball. Yeah. These are the best of >> Moneyball. Yeah. These are the best of >> Moneyball. Yeah. These are the best of the best. It's a very moneyballish sort the best. It's a very moneyballish sort the best. It's a very moneyballish sort of thing and there's not that many of of thing and there's not that many of of thing and there's not that many of them and you lose them and you lose them and you lose >> 20% of them and all a sudden, you know, >> 20% of them and all a sudden, you know, >> 20% of them and all a sudden, you know, they launched Claude Code before you they launched Claude Code before you they launched Claude Code before you launched Codeex or something like that launched Codeex or something like that launched Codeex or something like that and then the numbers changed pretty and then the numbers changed pretty and then the numbers changed pretty dramatically. So, he was being a real dramatically. So, he was being a real dramatically. So, he was being a real patriot um to his credit and trying to patriot um to his credit and trying to patriot um to his credit and trying to him, you know, help anthropic while they him, you know, help anthropic while they him, you know, help anthropic while they were trashing him and recruiting from were trashing him and recruiting from were trashing him and recruiting from his company. And I I am not biased. I his company. And I I am not biased. I his company. And I I am not biased. I just I want all of them. I want to give just I want all of them. I want to give just I want all of them. I want to give them all the same exact terms uh because them all the same exact terms uh because them all the same exact terms uh because I need redundancy. I want to see if they I need redundancy. I want to see if they I need redundancy. I want to see if they diverge or not or did they if they diverge or not or did they if they diverge or not or did they if they converge maybe I only need two over time converge maybe I only need two over time converge maybe I only need two over time but we don't know it's too early but we don't know it's too early but we don't know it's too early >> but why why keep them in the mix? So if >> but why why keep them in the mix? So if >> but why why keep them in the mix? So if there's clearly like a difference of there's clearly like a difference of there's clearly like a difference of operations and philosophy and how they operations and philosophy and how they operations and philosophy and how they want to run their business and there's want to run their business and there's want to run their business and there's other models is is their model other models is is their model other models is is their model particularly good at particular particularly good at particular particularly good at particular applications that make it important to applications that make it important to applications that make it important to keep it in the mix given that there are keep it in the mix given that there are keep it in the mix given that there are three or four other kind of alternatives three or four other kind of alternatives three or four other kind of alternatives here. here. here. >> Anthropic you mean? >> Anthropic you mean? >> Anthropic you mean? >> Yeah. Oh well because number the number >> Yeah. Oh well because number the number >> Yeah. Oh well because number the number one reason we were having this one reason we were having this one reason we were having this conversation at all was because they conversation at all was because they conversation at all was because they were deeply embedded. So now I have to were deeply embedded. So now I have to were deeply embedded. So now I have to unentangle them and the other companies unentangle them and the other companies unentangle them and the other companies have not gone as heavy enterprise have not gone as heavy enterprise have not gone as heavy enterprise enterprise sales forward deployed enterprise sales forward deployed enterprise sales forward deployed engineers government business. So engineers government business. So engineers government business. So they're have to catch up not on they're have to catch up not on they're have to catch up not on necessarily the capability of the model necessarily the capability of the model necessarily the capability of the model but just how do you serve the government but just how do you serve the government but just how do you serve the government >> the Bible is just way ahead on that >> the Bible is just way ahead on that >> the Bible is just way ahead on that >> right >> right >> right >> but the models themselves you don't >> but the models themselves you don't >> but the models themselves you don't think are uniquely advantaged or do you think are uniquely advantaged or do you think are uniquely advantaged or do you have a view on that at this point? I have a view on that at this point? I have a view on that at this point? I don't have a view on that. I I don't don't have a view on that. I I don't don't have a view on that. I I don't think they're, you know, I mean, think they're, you know, I mean, think they're, you know, I mean, certainly cloud code was was innovative certainly cloud code was was innovative certainly cloud code was was innovative and ahead. That's true. Um, but I do I and ahead. That's true. Um, but I do I and ahead. That's true. Um, but I do I believe in 12 months Codeex is not going believe in 12 months Codeex is not going believe in 12 months Codeex is not going to be close. I think it will be. to be close. I think it will be. to be close. I think it will be. >> I think you're right. There's an >> I think you're right. There's an >> I think you're right. There's an asmmptoing that's happening. If you just asmmptoing that's happening. If you just asmmptoing that's happening. If you just look at the like the confidence interval look at the like the confidence interval look at the like the confidence interval on how overperforming or on how overperforming or on how overperforming or underperformance some of the leading underperformance some of the leading underperformance some of the leading models are, the error bars are models are, the error bars are models are, the error bars are shrinking, right? the confidence shrinking, right? the confidence shrinking, right? the confidence intervals like these things are all kind intervals like these things are all kind intervals like these things are all kind of becoming the same eventually they're of becoming the same eventually they're of becoming the same eventually they're all getting access to enough power all getting access to enough power all getting access to enough power enough compute they're generating enough compute they're generating enough compute they're generating similar results it turns out which I similar results it turns out which I similar results it turns out which I think you would expect so even more think you would expect so even more think you would expect so even more important that you have a complexion of important that you have a complexion of important that you have a complexion of models the other thing Emil I don't know models the other thing Emil I don't know models the other thing Emil I don't know if you saw this but they posted about if you saw this but they posted about if you saw this but they posted about the revenue ramp of anthropic the revenue ramp of anthropic the revenue ramp of anthropic and well I have a small software company and well I have a small software company and well I have a small software company called 8090 and I asked the team. Let's called 8090 and I asked the team. Let's called 8090 and I asked the team. Let's go look at our opex. I posted it because go look at our opex. I posted it because go look at our opex. I posted it because I was so shocked at these numbers. Our I was so shocked at these numbers. Our I was so shocked at these numbers. Our costs have more than tripled since costs have more than tripled since costs have more than tripled since November of 25. Between the inference November of 25. Between the inference November of 25. Between the inference cost that we pay AWS, which is cost that we pay AWS, which is cost that we pay AWS, which is ginormous, between our cost with cursor, ginormous, between our cost with cursor, ginormous, between our cost with cursor, between anthropic, we are just spending between anthropic, we are just spending between anthropic, we are just spending millions. millions. millions. >> So now more per unit and more more in >> So now more per unit and more more in >> So now more per unit and more more in aggregate aggregate aggregate >> both. But the problem is that my costs >> both. But the problem is that my costs >> both. But the problem is that my costs are going up 3x every three months. My are going up 3x every three months. My are going up 3x every three months. My revenues are not revenues are not revenues are not >> token use is very addicting. >> token use is very addicting. >> token use is very addicting. >> Yeah. And by the way, because everybody >> Yeah. And by the way, because everybody >> Yeah. And by the way, because everybody has gotten infatuated with what we call has gotten infatuated with what we call has gotten infatuated with what we call these Ralph Wiggum loops, like just like these Ralph Wiggum loops, like just like these Ralph Wiggum loops, like just like send the thing off and like it'll just send the thing off and like it'll just send the thing off and like it'll just go figure something out. A, it never go figure something out. A, it never go figure something out. A, it never figures anything out, and B, you just figures anything out, and B, you just figures anything out, and B, you just get this ginormous bill from Cursor. So, get this ginormous bill from Cursor. So, get this ginormous bill from Cursor. So, one of the things we had to do was just, one of the things we had to do was just, one of the things we had to do was just, we had to say, guys, you got to we had to say, guys, you got to we had to say, guys, you got to deprecate cursor because you're just deprecate cursor because you're just deprecate cursor because you're just wrapping cloud code and charging us way wrapping cloud code and charging us way wrapping cloud code and charging us way too much for these tokens. But I don't too much for these tokens. But I don't too much for these tokens. But I don't know if you're seeing any of this thing know if you're seeing any of this thing know if you're seeing any of this thing where like the tool usage, it's so great where like the tool usage, it's so great where like the tool usage, it's so great to use these tools. Let's be honest, to use these tools. Let's be honest, to use these tools. Let's be honest, it's super fun. It's like you feel like it's super fun. It's like you feel like it's super fun. It's like you feel like a genius, a genius, a genius, >> but then the ROI of these tools are >> but then the ROI of these tools are >> but then the ROI of these tools are really important. I'm not sure that really important. I'm not sure that really important. I'm not sure that that's as much of an issue for you or that's as much of an issue for you or that's as much of an issue for you or not in in not in in not in in >> it will be it. It will be >> it will be it. It will be >> it will be it. It will be >> for sure. >> for sure. >> for sure. >> As people find more and more use cases, >> As people find more and more use cases, >> As people find more and more use cases, the use cases get more sophisticated. So the use cases get more sophisticated. So the use cases get more sophisticated. So the next marginal thing you have it do the next marginal thing you have it do the next marginal thing you have it do is likely to be harder and therefore be is likely to be harder and therefore be is likely to be harder and therefore be more consumptive. Right. more consumptive. Right. more consumptive. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Let me just ask Emil, the important >> Let me just ask Emil, the important >> Let me just ask Emil, the important question that I think triggered a lot of question that I think triggered a lot of question that I think triggered a lot of the news this week is why then designate the news this week is why then designate the news this week is why then designate them a supply chain risk? Why not just them a supply chain risk? Why not just them a supply chain risk? Why not just abandon them, move on, use the other abandon them, move on, use the other abandon them, move on, use the other vendors? Like why take this kind of vendors? Like why take this kind of vendors? Like why take this kind of punitive action? punitive action? punitive action? >> Yeah. So I I don't view it as punitive >> Yeah. So I I don't view it as punitive >> Yeah. So I I don't view it as punitive and I'll tell you why. It's if their and I'll tell you why. It's if their and I'll tell you why. It's if their model has this policy bias, let's call model has this policy bias, let's call model has this policy bias, let's call it, based on their constitution, their it, based on their constitution, their it, based on their constitution, their culture, their people and so on. I don't culture, their people and so on. I don't culture, their people and so on. I don't want Loheed Martin using their model to want Loheed Martin using their model to want Loheed Martin using their model to design weapons for me. I don't want the design weapons for me. I don't want the design weapons for me. I don't want the people who are designing the things that people who are designing the things that people who are designing the things that go into the the componentry to come to go into the the componentry to come to go into the the componentry to come to me because if that po if you believe the me because if that po if you believe the me because if that po if you believe the risk of poisoning threat yes it can risk of poisoning threat yes it can risk of poisoning threat yes it can enter into any part of the defense enter into any part of the defense enter into any part of the defense enterprise enterprise enterprise >> but it's just the defense enterprise so >> but it's just the defense enterprise so >> but it's just the defense enterprise so Boeing wants to use anthropic to build Boeing wants to use anthropic to build Boeing wants to use anthropic to build commercial jets have at it Boeing wants commercial jets have at it Boeing wants commercial jets have at it Boeing wants to use it to build fighter jets I can't to use it to build fighter jets I can't to use it to build fighter jets I can't have that because I don't trust what the have that because I don't trust what the have that because I don't trust what the outputs may be because they're so wedded outputs may be because they're so wedded outputs may be because they're so wedded to their own policy preferences. to their own policy preferences. to their own policy preferences. >> I guess a dovetail to that is why >> I guess a dovetail to that is why >> I guess a dovetail to that is why couldn't this have been handled couldn't this have been handled couldn't this have been handled quietly? Is this anthropic who made this quietly? Is this anthropic who made this quietly? Is this anthropic who made this a public spat or was it the a public spat or was it the a public spat or was it the administration that made it a public administration that made it a public administration that made it a public spat or two to tango? I mean, they have spat or two to tango? I mean, they have spat or two to tango? I mean, they have a very good sophisticated press a very good sophisticated press a very good sophisticated press operation and like really good and operation and like really good and operation and like really good and painting us as doing mass surveillance painting us as doing mass surveillance painting us as doing mass surveillance where where where their issue was like where where where their issue was like where where where their issue was like some commercial database thing that some commercial database thing that some commercial database thing that someone else could buy. They didn't want someone else could buy. They didn't want someone else could buy. They didn't want us to buy to use it, which I'm not even us to buy to use it, which I'm not even us to buy to use it, which I'm not even sure we buy them except to do recruiting sure we buy them except to do recruiting sure we buy them except to do recruiting for soldiers. And you know, we run for soldiers. And you know, we run for soldiers. And you know, we run schools, hospitals, we do a lot of schools, hospitals, we do a lot of schools, hospitals, we do a lot of things at DoD. We don't just fight wars. things at DoD. We don't just fight wars. things at DoD. We don't just fight wars. and um and the the way they were able to and um and the the way they were able to and um and the the way they were able to characterize these two things which are characterize these two things which are characterize these two things which are genuinely scary to people but were not genuinely scary to people but were not genuinely scary to people but were not the real issues. Um it was really the the real issues. Um it was really the the real issues. Um it was really the you worry I worried about them shutting you worry I worried about them shutting you worry I worried about them shutting off our system at a moment of need or off our system at a moment of need or off our system at a moment of need or them messing with our system in motar them messing with our system in motar them messing with our system in motar >> came to mind is if they are selling you >> came to mind is if they are selling you >> came to mind is if they are selling you batteries and you need to use the batteries and you need to use the batteries and you need to use the batteries or the laptops however you batteries or the laptops however you batteries or the laptops however you need to use them lawfully okay that need to use them lawfully okay that need to use them lawfully okay that should be enough for them unless they should be enough for them unless they should be enough for them unless they are peacenicks and they don't want to be are peacenicks and they don't want to be are peacenicks and they don't want to be involved in selling weapons which by the involved in selling weapons which by the involved in selling weapons which by the way was Google's position for many years way was Google's position for many years way was Google's position for many years they just didn't want to be involved in they just didn't want to be involved in they just didn't want to be involved in it because to your point they want to it because to your point they want to it because to your point they want to recruit talent that is also aligned with recruit talent that is also aligned with recruit talent that is also aligned with that. So there's just seems to be maybe that. So there's just seems to be maybe that. So there's just seems to be maybe this isn't the right partner for the this isn't the right partner for the this isn't the right partner for the Department of War. Department of War. Department of War. >> Yeah, you should if you if you don't >> Yeah, you should if you if you don't >> Yeah, you should if you if you don't want your stuff to be used for want your stuff to be used for want your stuff to be used for department war stuff, you shouldn't be department war stuff, you shouldn't be department war stuff, you shouldn't be selling to the Department of War. selling to the Department of War. selling to the Department of War. >> Pretty sure it's in the name. It's in >> Pretty sure it's in the name. It's in >> Pretty sure it's in the name. It's in the name. the name. the name. >> Well, and then also I have to say when >> Well, and then also I have to say when >> Well, and then also I have to say when you know you said, "Hey, we don't know you know you said, "Hey, we don't know you know you said, "Hey, we don't know what how we're going to use this thing." what how we're going to use this thing." what how we're going to use this thing." Like immediately came to mind was like Like immediately came to mind was like Like immediately came to mind was like 911. you you have to go check with them, 911. you you have to go check with them, 911. you you have to go check with them, you know, if you find out there's you know, if you find out there's you know, if you find out there's another 911 unique, you know, black swan another 911 unique, you know, black swan another 911 unique, you know, black swan event that's going to occur and you have event that's going to occur and you have event that's going to occur and you have to go clear it with them. Like you to go clear it with them. Like you to go clear it with them. Like you That's That's That's >> That was literally the comment. That was >> That was literally the comment. That was >> That was literally the comment. That was literally the comment when I was Yeah. literally the comment when I was Yeah. literally the comment when I was Yeah. So I was in a room of 20 people. So this So I was in a room of 20 people. So this So I was in a room of 20 people. So this is not undeniable if everyone want Daria is not undeniable if everyone want Daria is not undeniable if everyone want Daria wants to deny it. wants to deny it. wants to deny it. >> And I was giving these scenarios, these >> And I was giving these scenarios, these >> And I was giving these scenarios, these Golden Dome scenarios and so on. And Golden Dome scenarios and so on. And Golden Dome scenarios and so on. And he's like, "Just call me if you need he's like, "Just call me if you need he's like, "Just call me if you need another exception." And you know, I'm another exception." And you know, I'm another exception." And you know, I'm like, but what if the balloon's going up like, but what if the balloon's going up like, but what if the balloon's going up at that moment and it's like a decisive at that moment and it's like a decisive at that moment and it's like a decisive action we have to take. I'm not going to action we have to take. I'm not going to action we have to take. I'm not going to call you to do something. It's like not call you to do something. It's like not call you to do something. It's like not rational. And rational. And rational. And >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> uh so it that was another holy cow >> uh so it that was another holy cow >> uh so it that was another holy cow moment of like how they think about it. moment of like how they think about it. moment of like how they think about it. >> That just means that what he wants to be >> That just means that what he wants to be >> That just means that what he wants to be is the secretary of war. is the secretary of war. is the secretary of war. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> He wants to be the the god king there, I >> He wants to be the the god king there, I >> He wants to be the the god king there, I guess. Yeah. guess. Yeah. guess. Yeah. >> You can't do that. The thing that shocks >> You can't do that. The thing that shocks >> You can't do that. The thing that shocks me, Emil, I don't know. you maybe you me, Emil, I don't know. you maybe you me, Emil, I don't know. you maybe you can't say anything but guys you can can't say anything but guys you can can't say anything but guys you can comment on this. It's clear that comment on this. It's clear that comment on this. It's clear that Anthropic just lost all the Republicans Anthropic just lost all the Republicans Anthropic just lost all the Republicans but I think that if they think that they but I think that if they think that they but I think that if they think that they have the Democrats that's fleeting as have the Democrats that's fleeting as have the Democrats that's fleeting as well because I think progressive well because I think progressive well because I think progressive Democrats fundamentally just hate Democrats fundamentally just hate Democrats fundamentally just hate Silicon Valley and technology and so Silicon Valley and technology and so Silicon Valley and technology and so there's no way they're going to let some there's no way they're going to let some there's no way they're going to let some god king over here that they don't god king over here that they don't god king over here that they don't control either. And so in both ways, I control either. And so in both ways, I control either. And so in both ways, I think they accidentally may have pissed think they accidentally may have pissed think they accidentally may have pissed off every constituent. The longer term off every constituent. The longer term off every constituent. The longer term fallout amongst them and progressives fallout amongst them and progressives fallout amongst them and progressives will come home to roost because as the will come home to roost because as the will come home to roost because as the progressives want more control and these progressives want more control and these progressives want more control and these guys push back on them, they're just guys push back on them, they're just guys push back on them, they're just going to fall into the same situation. >> Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting >> Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting perspective. I think if you don't want perspective. I think if you don't want perspective. I think if you don't want to be involved in war that you're right, to be involved in war that you're right, to be involved in war that you're right, I think you mentioned this like three I think you mentioned this like three I think you mentioned this like three times, Jimoth. times, Jimoth. times, Jimoth. Don't sell bullets if you don't want to Don't sell bullets if you don't want to Don't sell bullets if you don't want to be in but you can't call Smith and be in but you can't call Smith and be in but you can't call Smith and Wesson and say can I The other thing is Wesson and say can I The other thing is Wesson and say can I The other thing is what the hell was the senior management what the hell was the senior management what the hell was the senior management and the board talking about over these and the board talking about over these and the board talking about over these last few days because to me it would last few days because to me it would last few days because to me it would have sounded insane. So then the have sounded insane. So then the have sounded insane. So then the question is were people just so question is were people just so question is were people just so breathless to buy this revenue curve? breathless to buy this revenue curve? breathless to buy this revenue curve? What is the board doing? What is the What is the board doing? What is the What is the board doing? What is the senior management really doing? What do senior management really doing? What do senior management really doing? What do you change guys? What do you think you you change guys? What do you think you you change guys? What do you think you would tell them if you were sitting would tell them if you were sitting would tell them if you were sitting inside of the board of inside of the board of inside of the board of >> Enthrop if you're an investor, you're on >> Enthrop if you're an investor, you're on >> Enthrop if you're an investor, you're on the board, what do you say to Daario the board, what do you say to Daario the board, what do you say to Daario when he says, "Hey, I need to dictate to when he says, "Hey, I need to dictate to when he says, "Hey, I need to dictate to Emil and Hexth how they use my tool and Emil and Hexth how they use my tool and Emil and Hexth how they use my tool and everybody else is just saying lawful use everybody else is just saying lawful use everybody else is just saying lawful use as the standard." What's your coaching as the standard." What's your coaching as the standard." What's your coaching advice? advice? advice? >> Well, it's also a very unusual >> Well, it's also a very unusual >> Well, it's also a very unusual circumstance because I don't think any circumstance because I don't think any circumstance because I don't think any business in history has grown as fast as business in history has grown as fast as business in history has grown as fast as they have in the last 90 days. So, they have in the last 90 days. So, they have in the last 90 days. So, they've added what was it? 6 billion of they've added what was it? 6 billion of they've added what was it? 6 billion of ARR. ARR. ARR. >> Yeah. in a month or something. >> Yeah. in a month or something. >> Yeah. in a month or something. >> I mean, that's absurd. Like, I mean, >> I mean, that's absurd. Like, I mean, >> I mean, that's absurd. Like, I mean, absurd. It's absurd. It's a great absurd. It's absurd. It's a great absurd. It's absurd. It's a great product. Open Claw has driven a lot of product. Open Claw has driven a lot of product. Open Claw has driven a lot of this. this. this. >> If you're on the board, >> If you're on the board, >> If you're on the board, >> you're closing your eyes. Yeah. >> you're closing your eyes. Yeah. >> you're closing your eyes. Yeah. >> You're shutting the up. You're just >> You're shutting the up. You're just >> You're shutting the up. You're just shutting the up cuz something's shutting the up cuz something's shutting the up cuz something's working. working. working. >> You're actually >> You're actually >> You're actually >> I think he's off doing his thing and >> I think he's off doing his thing and >> I think he's off doing his thing and they're going to let him do it. And I they're going to let him do it. And I they're going to let him do it. And I don't think that company's worth 350 don't think that company's worth 350 don't think that company's worth 350 billion anymore. billion anymore. billion anymore. God knows what it's worth. God knows what it's worth. God knows what it's worth. >> Oh. Oh, that's interesting. Where do you >> Oh. Oh, that's interesting. Where do you >> Oh. Oh, that's interesting. Where do you If you get put a block of stock right If you get put a block of stock right If you get put a block of stock right now, where do you put a bid in? I'll now, where do you put a bid in? I'll now, where do you put a bid in? I'll tell you where I tell you where I tell you where I >> Oh my god. I had I had this conversation >> Oh my god. I had I had this conversation >> Oh my god. I had I had this conversation at dinner two nights ago. It's like you at dinner two nights ago. It's like you at dinner two nights ago. It's like you have to pick between OpenAI at their have to pick between OpenAI at their have to pick between OpenAI at their current mark, current mark, current mark, anthropic at their current mark, or anthropic at their current mark, or anthropic at their current mark, or Google. And it's either multiple from Google. And it's either multiple from Google. And it's either multiple from here or net market value creation from here or net market value creation from here or net market value creation from here because those are actually two very here because those are actually two very here because those are actually two very different conversations. different conversations. different conversations. >> Explain the difference. >> Explain the difference. >> Explain the difference. >> I think the net market valuation because >> I think the net market valuation because >> I think the net market valuation because Google's already worth three trillion. Google's already worth three trillion. Google's already worth three trillion. So if they double, they've added three So if they double, they've added three So if they double, they've added three trillion, but I think Google is the bet. trillion, but I think Google is the bet. trillion, but I think Google is the bet. I think Google is the market value I think Google is the market value I think Google is the market value creator bet. But I think anthropic is creator bet. But I think anthropic is creator bet. But I think anthropic is the multiple bet. I think anthropic is a the multiple bet. I think anthropic is a the multiple bet. I think anthropic is a trillion five market cap at the end of trillion five market cap at the end of trillion five market cap at the end of the day. the day. the day. Unless this blows them up, Unless this blows them up, Unless this blows them up, >> you're still buying the 5x versus the 3x >> you're still buying the 5x versus the 3x >> you're still buying the 5x versus the 3x kind of thing. kind of thing. kind of thing. >> You'd buy the 5x instead of the 2x. >> You'd buy the 5x instead of the 2x. >> You'd buy the 5x instead of the 2x. >> But if you get put a block of stock now, >> But if you get put a block of stock now, >> But if you get put a block of stock now, do you buy it at the last post or do you do you buy it at the last post or do you do you buy it at the last post or do you buy it at a discount or do you just say, buy it at a discount or do you just say, buy it at a discount or do you just say, "Ah, I just buy it at the last post." "Ah, I just buy it at the last post." "Ah, I just buy it at the last post." >> Anthropic is worth a lot more than 350. >> Anthropic is worth a lot more than 350. >> Anthropic is worth a lot more than 350. That's for sure. That's for sure. That's for sure. >> I I that it's undervalued compared to >> I I that it's undervalued compared to >> I I that it's undervalued compared to chat. chat. chat. >> They just added six billion in the last >> They just added six billion in the last >> They just added six billion in the last month. And I will tell you anecdotally, month. And I will tell you anecdotally, month. And I will tell you anecdotally, anecdotally, anecdotally, anecdotally, >> I am everyone I talk to is on co-work. >> I am everyone I talk to is on co-work. >> I am everyone I talk to is on co-work. Everyone is like gone deep on this. Everyone is like gone deep on this. Everyone is like gone deep on this. Everyone's amazed and shocked and Everyone's amazed and shocked and Everyone's amazed and shocked and actively using it. And everyone's saying actively using it. And everyone's saying actively using it. And everyone's saying the same thing, which is anthropic, may the same thing, which is anthropic, may the same thing, which is anthropic, may actually be fulfilling the promise of actually be fulfilling the promise of actually be fulfilling the promise of AI. I will also say that it's only going AI. I will also say that it's only going AI. I will also say that it's only going to take 90 days for Google to flip on a to take 90 days for Google to flip on a to take 90 days for Google to flip on a virtual version of co-work. And once virtual version of co-work. And once virtual version of co-work. And once Google like has this integrated with G Google like has this integrated with G Google like has this integrated with G Suite and you have a virtual hosted Suite and you have a virtual hosted Suite and you have a virtual hosted version of co-work sweeps the market version of co-work sweeps the market version of co-work sweeps the market with this same competitor. But right now with this same competitor. But right now with this same competitor. But right now Coowwork is such an incredible product Coowwork is such an incredible product Coowwork is such an incredible product and everyone's saying the same thing. and everyone's saying the same thing. and everyone's saying the same thing. It's like giving Elon giving truth to It's like giving Elon giving truth to It's like giving Elon giving truth to AI. Elon said something with respect to AI. Elon said something with respect to AI. Elon said something with respect to Grock which was that Grock which was that Grock which was that he expects it to exceed all of these he expects it to exceed all of these he expects it to exceed all of these coding models probably in the May spin coding models probably in the May spin coding models probably in the May spin but for sure by June. but for sure by June. but for sure by June. So to your point free like what like I So to your point free like what like I So to your point free like what like I guess my question guys to you is like guess my question guys to you is like guess my question guys to you is like what happens okay what do you guys do em what happens okay what do you guys do em what happens okay what do you guys do em what do you do when all the models what do you do when all the models what do you do when all the models asmtote let's just say by October of asmtote let's just say by October of asmtote let's just say by October of this year let's just say I can guarantee this year let's just say I can guarantee this year let's just say I can guarantee you just for the thought exercise by you just for the thought exercise by you just for the thought exercise by October all the models are the same do October all the models are the same do October all the models are the same do you just take a complexion of them all you just take a complexion of them all you just take a complexion of them all and say great we're going to build some and say great we're going to build some and say great we're going to build some governance layer around it and now we're governance layer around it and now we're governance layer around it and now we're indifferent or indifferent or indifferent or >> what do you do >> what do you do >> what do you do >> I would love to be indifferent because >> I would love to be indifferent because >> I would love to be indifferent because then I could compete on price, right? then I could compete on price, right? then I could compete on price, right? And then then I have and then I have one And then then I have and then I have one And then then I have and then I have one one main and one redundant or two mains one main and one redundant or two mains one main and one redundant or two mains and I'd need at least two. and I'd need at least two. and I'd need at least two. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Anthropic's not going to be one of them >> Anthropic's not going to be one of them >> Anthropic's not going to be one of them if they continue sort of with their if they continue sort of with their if they continue sort of with their their sort of posture. So then it would their sort of posture. So then it would their sort of posture. So then it would be three. And if one gets wobbly from a be three. And if one gets wobbly from a be three. And if one gets wobbly from a policy scenario too because they all, policy scenario too because they all, policy scenario too because they all, you know, except for Elon's is based in you know, except for Elon's is based in you know, except for Elon's is based in San Francisco and has that that vibe to San Francisco and has that that vibe to San Francisco and has that that vibe to it. So, uh, you kind of want to have two it. So, uh, you kind of want to have two it. So, uh, you kind of want to have two or three at any given time. And yeah, or three at any given time. And yeah, or three at any given time. And yeah, then I then you price compete them. I do then I then you price compete them. I do then I then you price compete them. I do think Google has a long-term strategic think Google has a long-term strategic think Google has a long-term strategic advantage, not because of not only advantage, not because of not only advantage, not because of not only because of their consumer thing, but because of their consumer thing, but because of their consumer thing, but because they have their own cloud. because they have their own cloud. because they have their own cloud. >> So, between them, they don't have the >> So, between them, they don't have the >> So, between them, they don't have the margin on top of the cloud that margin on top of the cloud that margin on top of the cloud that Anthropical have to pass on. So, it's an Anthropical have to pass on. So, it's an Anthropical have to pass on. So, it's an interesting economic uh interesting economic uh interesting economic uh >> uh proposition from them. >> uh proposition from them. >> uh proposition from them. And just to build on your point, And just to build on your point, And just to build on your point, Freedberg, after you finish your uh Freedberg, after you finish your uh Freedberg, after you finish your uh insightful comments here, pull this up, insightful comments here, pull this up, insightful comments here, pull this up, Nick. Almost on quue, Freedberg. You're Nick. Almost on quue, Freedberg. You're Nick. Almost on quue, Freedberg. You're such an oracle. Here is the announcement such an oracle. Here is the announcement such an oracle. Here is the announcement from Google. Google Workspace is now from Google. Google Workspace is now from Google. Google Workspace is now integrated for agents and 40 agent integrated for agents and 40 agent integrated for agents and 40 agent skills were included today. Emilio, skills were included today. Emilio, skills were included today. Emilio, you've been great today. Super honest. you've been great today. Super honest. you've been great today. Super honest. Daario's uh position. I'm going to give Daario's uh position. I'm going to give Daario's uh position. I'm going to give you some fast balls here. Daario says, you some fast balls here. Daario says, you some fast balls here. Daario says, "The real reason the Pentagon and Trump "The real reason the Pentagon and Trump "The real reason the Pentagon and Trump admin do not like us is that we haven't admin do not like us is that we haven't admin do not like us is that we haven't donated to Trump. While Open AI Greg donated to Trump. While Open AI Greg donated to Trump. While Open AI Greg have donated a lot, here's Claude's have donated a lot, here's Claude's have donated a lot, here's Claude's answer to that claim." Here's nine answer to that claim." Here's nine answer to that claim." Here's nine companies and their activities with the companies and their activities with the companies and their activities with the administration from the inauguration to administration from the inauguration to administration from the inauguration to attending the inauguration to the White attending the inauguration to the White attending the inauguration to the White House CEO dinner to the Melania House CEO dinner to the Melania House CEO dinner to the Melania documentary. If you go through and you documentary. If you go through and you documentary. If you go through and you look at these nine companies, Microsoft, look at these nine companies, Microsoft, look at these nine companies, Microsoft, Apple, Tim Apple, Nvidia, Amazon, they Apple, Tim Apple, Nvidia, Amazon, they Apple, Tim Apple, Nvidia, Amazon, they have all participated. have all participated. have all participated. There's one company that hasn't There's one company that hasn't There's one company that hasn't participated and that's Anthropic. Are participated and that's Anthropic. Are participated and that's Anthropic. Are is Anthropic being singled out because is Anthropic being singled out because is Anthropic being singled out because they are not genulecting and because they are not genulecting and because they are not genulecting and because they're not paying the cover charge. they're not paying the cover charge. they're not paying the cover charge. People say this administration is pay People say this administration is pay People say this administration is pay for play. That's the accusation he's for play. That's the accusation he's for play. That's the accusation he's making. I'd say maybe there's a cover making. I'd say maybe there's a cover making. I'd say maybe there's a cover charge. Nobody likes to pay it, but the charge. Nobody likes to pay it, but the charge. Nobody likes to pay it, but the other companies have. What do you think other companies have. What do you think other companies have. What do you think here? here? here? >> I mean, it's literally one of the >> I mean, it's literally one of the >> I mean, it's literally one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I I dumbest things I've ever heard. I I dumbest things I've ever heard. I I truly just because I'm like, I'm in the truly just because I'm like, I'm in the truly just because I'm like, I'm in the Department of War. I need to win wars. Department of War. I need to win wars. Department of War. I need to win wars. If you help me win wars and I don't have If you help me win wars and I don't have If you help me win wars and I don't have to waste time transitioning you out, I'm to waste time transitioning you out, I'm to waste time transitioning you out, I'm that makes me thrilled. Um, and it sort that makes me thrilled. Um, and it sort that makes me thrilled. Um, and it sort of it's a criticism on me because it's of it's a criticism on me because it's of it's a criticism on me because it's not like Trump, President Trump dipped not like Trump, President Trump dipped not like Trump, President Trump dipped in and he's like, "Hey, Emil, by the in and he's like, "Hey, Emil, by the in and he's like, "Hey, Emil, by the way, those guys didn't get any money. way, those guys didn't get any money. way, those guys didn't get any money. you can't use them anymore. I mean, you can't use them anymore. I mean, you can't use them anymore. I mean, obviously, it's sort of like like obviously, it's sort of like like obviously, it's sort of like like invention in his own mind. It's like I invention in his own mind. It's like I invention in his own mind. It's like I don't know if people sleep at night if don't know if people sleep at night if don't know if people sleep at night if those thoughts get in there. Um and and those thoughts get in there. Um and and those thoughts get in there. Um and and I was trying to work with them. Why I was trying to work with them. Why I was trying to work with them. Why would I spend three months trying to would I spend three months trying to would I spend three months trying to negotiate with them to get to a simple negotiate with them to get to a simple negotiate with them to get to a simple standard if I would have just said, standard if I would have just said, standard if I would have just said, "Okay, guys, you're out. Bye." So, I I "Okay, guys, you're out. Bye." So, I I "Okay, guys, you're out. Bye." So, I I think it's just some internal think it's just some internal think it's just some internal psychosis. That's the only way I can psychosis. That's the only way I can psychosis. That's the only way I can explain that. explain that. explain that. >> Okay. It could be on Dario that he's >> Okay. It could be on Dario that he's >> Okay. It could be on Dario that he's antagonistic to the administration both antagonistic to the administration both antagonistic to the administration both with respect to how he operates with respect to how he operates with respect to how he operates commercially and it's also reflected in commercially and it's also reflected in commercially and it's also reflected in the fact that he doesn't want to support the fact that he doesn't want to support the fact that he doesn't want to support the administration. the administration. the administration. >> I have a different theory. >> I have a different theory. >> I have a different theory. >> I think that they have a massive >> I think that they have a massive >> I think that they have a massive instance of co-work internally that instance of co-work internally that instance of co-work internally that helps them come up with business helps them come up with business helps them come up with business strategy. And I bet you there's like strategy. And I bet you there's like strategy. And I bet you there's like some element of AI that says, "Yeah, you some element of AI that says, "Yeah, you some element of AI that says, "Yeah, you should do it. Do it. It just makes should do it. Do it. It just makes should do it. Do it. It just makes sense. sense. sense. >> Zig where they zag and get more press." >> Zig where they zag and get more press." >> Zig where they zag and get more press." And so now there's some some And so now there's some some And so now there's some some cladbot telling them to basically tell cladbot telling them to basically tell cladbot telling them to basically tell the department of war to pound sand. the department of war to pound sand. the department of war to pound sand. It's gonna turn out to be the stupidest It's gonna turn out to be the stupidest It's gonna turn out to be the stupidest decision. decision. decision. >> Listen, if I was chairman of the board >> Listen, if I was chairman of the board >> Listen, if I was chairman of the board of that company, I pull Dario aside and of that company, I pull Dario aside and of that company, I pull Dario aside and I'd say, "Listen, you're obviously a I'd say, "Listen, you're obviously a I'd say, "Listen, you're obviously a genius. We obviously have the best tool genius. We obviously have the best tool genius. We obviously have the best tool in town. This is not a battle you can in town. This is not a battle you can in town. This is not a battle you can win and it makes no sense. You're going win and it makes no sense. You're going win and it makes no sense. You're going to come across as not being patriotic." to come across as not being patriotic." to come across as not being patriotic." And Tim Cook is showing up for the And Tim Cook is showing up for the And Tim Cook is showing up for the Melania premiere. Would it kill you to Melania premiere. Would it kill you to Melania premiere. Would it kill you to support the president? Would he kill you support the president? Would he kill you support the president? Would he kill you to show up? Look what happened when to show up? Look what happened when to show up? Look what happened when Biden Look what happened when Biden Biden Look what happened when Biden Biden Look what happened when Biden excluded Elon that ankled him. Show up excluded Elon that ankled him. Show up excluded Elon that ankled him. Show up for the president. Show up for America for the president. Show up for America for the president. Show up for America and be a patriot. You don't have to and be a patriot. You don't have to and be a patriot. You don't have to donate, but be a patriot and show up for donate, but be a patriot and show up for donate, but be a patriot and show up for the dinners. the dinners. the dinners. >> That's terrible advice. Here's my >> That's terrible advice. Here's my >> That's terrible advice. Here's my advice. advice. advice. >> Okay, here's your advice. Okay. >> Okay, here's your advice. Okay. >> Okay, here's your advice. Okay. >> Hey Dario, call a meal back right now >> Hey Dario, call a meal back right now >> Hey Dario, call a meal back right now and say, "You know what? Sorry, weed up. and say, "You know what? Sorry, weed up. and say, "You know what? Sorry, weed up. We're gonna own this and we're going to We're gonna own this and we're going to We're gonna own this and we're going to put out a press release that says we put out a press release that says we put out a press release that says we support our customers use of our models support our customers use of our models support our customers use of our models to do everything and anything that's to do everything and anything that's to do everything and anything that's lawful. Number one, and number two, that lawful. Number one, and number two, that lawful. Number one, and number two, that our terms of service are written in our terms of service are written in our terms of service are written in stone and that you can expect solidity stone and that you can expect solidity stone and that you can expect solidity and reliability from us. And this was and reliability from us. And this was and reliability from us. And this was just a misstep. just a misstep. just a misstep. >> Camille, how do you respond? >> Camille, how do you respond? >> Camille, how do you respond? >> I mean, I would say that's what I've >> I mean, I would say that's what I've >> I mean, I would say that's what I've always wanted. I need a reliable, steady always wanted. I need a reliable, steady always wanted. I need a reliable, steady partner that gives me something that'll partner that gives me something that'll partner that gives me something that'll work with me on autonomous because work with me on autonomous because work with me on autonomous because someday it'll be real and we're starting someday it'll be real and we're starting someday it'll be real and we're starting to see earlier versions of that and I to see earlier versions of that and I to see earlier versions of that and I need someone who's not going to wig out need someone who's not going to wig out need someone who's not going to wig out in the middle and we're just at the in the middle and we're just at the in the middle and we're just at the early stages and it's rational. But early stages and it's rational. But early stages and it's rational. But then, then, then, >> you know, you called President Trump in >> you know, you called President Trump in >> you know, you called President Trump in your 5,000word essay on Friday a wannabe your 5,000word essay on Friday a wannabe your 5,000word essay on Friday a wannabe dictator. dictator. dictator. >> You're going to have to apologize to >> You're going to have to apologize to >> You're going to have to apologize to more people than just me. Yeah, maybe more people than just me. Yeah, maybe more people than just me. Yeah, maybe time to rewrite the position here. Uh, time to rewrite the position here. Uh, time to rewrite the position here. Uh, let let's just say Kumbaya, everybody. let let's just say Kumbaya, everybody. let let's just say Kumbaya, everybody. Kumbaya, we solved the problem. And look Kumbaya, we solved the problem. And look Kumbaya, we solved the problem. And look who's on the line. Surprise guest. who's on the line. Surprise guest. who's on the line. Surprise guest. Daario's here. I thought I would Daario's here. I thought I would Daario's here. I thought I would surprise everybody. Nick, pull Dario up. surprise everybody. Nick, pull Dario up. surprise everybody. Nick, pull Dario up. No, he's not here. No, he's not here. No, he's not here. >> What's your view on how the industrial >> What's your view on how the industrial >> What's your view on how the industrial supply chain for hardware components and supply chain for hardware components and supply chain for hardware components and systems is coming along in the United systems is coming along in the United systems is coming along in the United States? Because my understanding is States? Because my understanding is States? Because my understanding is we're trying to reduce dependency on we're trying to reduce dependency on we're trying to reduce dependency on Chinese manufactured components. Where Chinese manufactured components. Where Chinese manufactured components. Where are we with respect to where we need to are we with respect to where we need to are we with respect to where we need to get to in the US manufacturing supply get to in the US manufacturing supply get to in the US manufacturing supply chain? chain? chain? >> We are early days. Um critical minerals >> We are early days. Um critical minerals >> We are early days. Um critical minerals you see you've seen the action around you see you've seen the action around you see you've seen the action around that. Um you'll start to see so I have that. Um you'll start to see so I have that. Um you'll start to see so I have the office of strategic capital which the office of strategic capital which the office of strategic capital which has 200 billion in lending authority. has 200 billion in lending authority. has 200 billion in lending authority. And what we're trying to do is is it's And what we're trying to do is is it's And what we're trying to do is is it's like a treasuries plus 100 bips loan to like a treasuries plus 100 bips loan to like a treasuries plus 100 bips loan to companies, show them that the department companies, show them that the department companies, show them that the department needs their solid rocket motors, their needs their solid rocket motors, their needs their solid rocket motors, their batteries, their fiberglass, like all batteries, their fiberglass, like all batteries, their fiberglass, like all the things that we that we're heavily the things that we that we're heavily the things that we that we're heavily dependent on for our defense industrial dependent on for our defense industrial dependent on for our defense industrial base that are completely outsourced to base that are completely outsourced to base that are completely outsourced to China and domesticate them here. Um, and China and domesticate them here. Um, and China and domesticate them here. Um, and we've got uh a bunch of great people we've got uh a bunch of great people we've got uh a bunch of great people running it. So, but but it's early days. running it. So, but but it's early days. running it. So, but but it's early days. is going to take for the rest of the is going to take for the rest of the is going to take for the rest of the term to get um I think we'll get term to get um I think we'll get term to get um I think we'll get critical minerals done before the rest critical minerals done before the rest critical minerals done before the rest of the term where where we have the of the term where where we have the of the term where where we have the access to what we need to from US or access to what we need to from US or access to what we need to from US or allied countries. Um but from batteries allied countries. Um but from batteries allied countries. Um but from batteries is like the next problem I'm trying to is like the next problem I'm trying to is like the next problem I'm trying to solve. For example, batteries are solve. For example, batteries are solve. For example, batteries are totally outsourced both technologically totally outsourced both technologically totally outsourced both technologically and from lithium to China. Um, and and from lithium to China. Um, and and from lithium to China. Um, and there's like, you know, kind of call it there's like, you know, kind of call it there's like, you know, kind of call it 20 critical things. If I could get to 20 critical things. If I could get to 20 critical things. If I could get to all of them at some level, but then all of them at some level, but then all of them at some level, but then it'll take a few years for them to like it'll take a few years for them to like it'll take a few years for them to like build plants and do that stuff. But build plants and do that stuff. But build plants and do that stuff. But there there it's it's very important. I there there it's it's very important. I there there it's it's very important. I hope whatever administration comes next hope whatever administration comes next hope whatever administration comes next continues it because I'm all free continues it because I'm all free continues it because I'm all free market, but but we outsource so much market, but but we outsource so much market, but but we outsource so much that um, you know, it crippled sort of that um, you know, it crippled sort of that um, you know, it crippled sort of the the kind of the assembly part of the the kind of the assembly part of the the kind of the assembly part of putting all these things together. Do we putting all these things together. Do we putting all these things together. Do we have a munitions risk right now given have a munitions risk right now given have a munitions risk right now given the conflict that we're involved in? the conflict that we're involved in? the conflict that we're involved in? >> We don't have a munitions risk, but um >> We don't have a munitions risk, but um >> We don't have a munitions risk, but um we do need to plus up because we do need to plus up because we do need to plus up because the Europeans are taking a long time to the Europeans are taking a long time to the Europeans are taking a long time to contribute like Ukraine. Russia has contribute like Ukraine. Russia has contribute like Ukraine. Russia has consumed a lot of munitions from like consumed a lot of munitions from like consumed a lot of munitions from like all over the world and then uh obviously all over the world and then uh obviously all over the world and then uh obviously these conflicts we've been in and these conflicts we've been in and these conflicts we've been in and um we need to have like the next um we need to have like the next um we need to have like the next generation we're still there's still a generation we're still there's still a generation we're still there's still a large degree we're fighting with 1980 large degree we're fighting with 1980 large degree we're fighting with 1980 cold war weapons cold war weapons cold war weapons >> right and not modern weapons and so we >> right and not modern weapons and so we >> right and not modern weapons and so we need to plus up those things that to to need to plus up those things that to to need to plus up those things that to to regenerate them I mean our nuclear regenerate them I mean our nuclear regenerate them I mean our nuclear missiles are 50 years old some of the missiles are 50 years old some of the missiles are 50 years old some of the planes are 40 years old so all has to be planes are 40 years old so all has to be planes are 40 years old so all has to be renewed. renewed. renewed. >> Do you think um just speak to the >> Do you think um just speak to the >> Do you think um just speak to the venture capitalists in the audience? venture capitalists in the audience? venture capitalists in the audience? >> Are we in the early stages of this kind >> Are we in the early stages of this kind >> Are we in the early stages of this kind of defense tech boom? Is defense tech of defense tech boom? Is defense tech of defense tech boom? Is defense tech wellunded at this point or is it kind of wellunded at this point or is it kind of wellunded at this point or is it kind of too hypy and bubbly and that's not too hypy and bubbly and that's not too hypy and bubbly and that's not really the issue? It's not about funding really the issue? It's not about funding really the issue? It's not about funding the companies. It's about funding some the companies. It's about funding some the companies. It's about funding some of the further upstream uh issues that of the further upstream uh issues that of the further upstream uh issues that we're facing. What's what's your view on we're facing. What's what's your view on we're facing. What's what's your view on where we are there? where we are there? where we are there? >> There's more defense tech venture >> There's more defense tech venture >> There's more defense tech venture capital than ever by you know 3x more capital than ever by you know 3x more capital than ever by you know 3x more than last year. So, you know, it it's than last year. So, you know, it it's than last year. So, you know, it it's growing. What I need to do and what the growing. What I need to do and what the growing. What I need to do and what the department needs to do is have some of department needs to do is have some of department needs to do is have some of these companies win big contracts quick these companies win big contracts quick these companies win big contracts quick like whether you know and sure um uh like whether you know and sure um uh like whether you know and sure um uh Seronic sure like bunch of these Seronic sure like bunch of these Seronic sure like bunch of these companies so that more money flows in companies so that more money flows in companies so that more money flows in more entrepreneurs do it and I could buy more entrepreneurs do it and I could buy more entrepreneurs do it and I could buy more because genuinely I do think more because genuinely I do think more because genuinely I do think warfare is going from big car carrier warfare is going from big car carrier warfare is going from big car carrier ships that cost20 billion dollars and a ships that cost20 billion dollars and a ships that cost20 billion dollars and a decade and a half to build to mass decade and a half to build to mass decade and a half to build to mass traitable traitable traitable lowcost um things and that's what these lowcost um things and that's what these lowcost um things and that's what these new these new entrance can do. So we new these new entrance can do. So we new these new entrance can do. So we need those to succeed so that the need those to succeed so that the need those to succeed so that the flywheel goes with venture capital money flywheel goes with venture capital money flywheel goes with venture capital money entrepreneurs capabilities entrepreneurs capabilities entrepreneurs capabilities >> in that sense and what I've heard as >> in that sense and what I've heard as >> in that sense and what I've heard as kind of the explainer for this is we're kind of the explainer for this is we're kind of the explainer for this is we're moving from the old primes to the new moving from the old primes to the new moving from the old primes to the new primes that there's going to be a small primes that there's going to be a small primes that there's going to be a small set of big winners and then obviously set of big winners and then obviously set of big winners and then obviously lots of seconds and and subs and lots of seconds and and subs and lots of seconds and and subs and whatnot. Is that really how this whatnot. Is that really how this whatnot. Is that really how this market's going to evolve? So, are we market's going to evolve? So, are we market's going to evolve? So, are we going to end up with Andrew, Palanteer, going to end up with Andrew, Palanteer, going to end up with Andrew, Palanteer, and maybe three or four others, and and maybe three or four others, and and maybe three or four others, and that's where most of the value is going that's where most of the value is going that's where most of the value is going to acrue from a market perspective? to acrue from a market perspective? to acrue from a market perspective? >> I mean, Andrew and Palanteer want that, >> I mean, Andrew and Palanteer want that, >> I mean, Andrew and Palanteer want that, and I joke with them all the time about and I joke with them all the time about and I joke with them all the time about it, but I I want I definitely want at it, but I I want I definitely want at it, but I I want I definitely want at least a second layer that's innovative least a second layer that's innovative least a second layer that's innovative and trying to disrupt the first layer and trying to disrupt the first layer and trying to disrupt the first layer all the time. I met a mom and pop like all the time. I met a mom and pop like all the time. I met a mom and pop like wholly owned company that that makes wholly owned company that that makes wholly owned company that that makes these missiles called Rams that are we these missiles called Rams that are we these missiles called Rams that are we really sell and send send to Ukraine and really sell and send send to Ukraine and really sell and send send to Ukraine and they do it with like 30 people and they they do it with like 30 people and they they do it with like 30 people and they can do a thousand a year because they've can do a thousand a year because they've can do a thousand a year because they've designed a manufacturer and it's designed a manufacturer and it's designed a manufacturer and it's awesome. So I want companies like that awesome. So I want companies like that awesome. So I want companies like that to continue innovating maybe and then b to continue innovating maybe and then b to continue innovating maybe and then b buys them but the the one of the reasons buys them but the the one of the reasons buys them but the the one of the reasons the primes are such a small number it's the primes are such a small number it's the primes are such a small number it's not the only but it's one is they learn not the only but it's one is they learn not the only but it's one is they learn how to contract with the government. how to contract with the government. how to contract with the government. They learned how to go through the They learned how to go through the They learned how to go through the bureaucracy and that became a bureaucracy and that became a bureaucracy and that became a competitive advantage. I'm trying to competitive advantage. I'm trying to competitive advantage. I'm trying to take that competitive advantage away. take that competitive advantage away. take that competitive advantage away. >> That's a really important point. How do >> That's a really important point. How do >> That's a really important point. How do you disassemble all that bureaucracy so you disassemble all that bureaucracy so you disassemble all that bureaucracy so that product innovation can actually get that product innovation can actually get that product innovation can actually get to you? to you? to you? >> Yeah. So we we did a big So part of it >> Yeah. So we we did a big So part of it >> Yeah. So we we did a big So part of it comes down to requirements reform. What comes down to requirements reform. What comes down to requirements reform. What used to happen is people like oh we need used to happen is people like oh we need used to happen is people like oh we need a new fighter jet. So, Army, Navy, Air a new fighter jet. So, Army, Navy, Air a new fighter jet. So, Army, Navy, Air Force put in the requirements and were Force put in the requirements and were Force put in the requirements and were you know it would we needed to be you know it would we needed to be you know it would we needed to be stealthy to hold a missile to hold four stealthy to hold a missile to hold four stealthy to hold a missile to hold four humans and you know it became this humans and you know it became this humans and you know it became this unbuildable thing but the contractor unbuildable thing but the contractor unbuildable thing but the contractor didn't care because they're getting paid didn't care because they're getting paid didn't care because they're getting paid cost plus so like sure I'll fulfill your cost plus so like sure I'll fulfill your cost plus so like sure I'll fulfill your requirements two years from now you're requirements two years from now you're requirements two years from now you're like that was never engineered properly like that was never engineered properly like that was never engineered properly it'll be another few years late and a it'll be another few years late and a it'll be another few years late and a couple more billion dollars so we're couple more billion dollars so we're couple more billion dollars so we're trying to change that to I tell you my trying to change that to I tell you my trying to change that to I tell you my common operational problem. I need a common operational problem. I need a common operational problem. I need a bunch of missiles that go 500 miles or bunch of missiles that go 500 miles or bunch of missiles that go 500 miles or more that have this kind of blast. Come more that have this kind of blast. Come more that have this kind of blast. Come to me with solutions, as little to me with solutions, as little to me with solutions, as little requirements as possible on that side. requirements as possible on that side. requirements as possible on that side. And on the contract piece, trying to get And on the contract piece, trying to get And on the contract piece, trying to get to as close to commercial contracts as to as close to commercial contracts as to as close to commercial contracts as possible. And this is going to take, and possible. And this is going to take, and possible. And this is going to take, and this is where the startups are so good, this is where the startups are so good, this is where the startups are so good, they'll do fixed cost pricing. They'll they'll do fixed cost pricing. They'll they'll do fixed cost pricing. They'll do, you know, pay you don't pay me as do, you know, pay you don't pay me as do, you know, pay you don't pay me as much if I deliver late. You pay me more much if I deliver late. You pay me more much if I deliver late. You pay me more if I deliver early. if I deliver early. if I deliver early. >> It's very disruptive to the existing >> It's very disruptive to the existing >> It's very disruptive to the existing system. Yeah. system. Yeah. system. Yeah. >> Super disruptive. But that's that's what >> Super disruptive. But that's that's what >> Super disruptive. But that's that's what I'm I'm like waking up every day trying I'm I'm like waking up every day trying I'm I'm like waking up every day trying to do. to do. to do. >> So you could put out as something >> So you could put out as something >> So you could put out as something saying, "Hey, the straight of horses is saying, "Hey, the straight of horses is saying, "Hey, the straight of horses is super important. We need to keep it super important. We need to keep it super important. We need to keep it open. We need these type of devices to open. We need these type of devices to open. We need these type of devices to keep it open." But come to us with your keep it open." But come to us with your keep it open." But come to us with your ideas and let them be creative ideas and let them be creative ideas and let them be creative entrepreneurs as opposed to, you know, entrepreneurs as opposed to, you know, entrepreneurs as opposed to, you know, just trying to goose the profits. Yeah. just trying to goose the profits. Yeah. just trying to goose the profits. Yeah. It's really brilliant. It's really brilliant. It's really brilliant. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Emil, you also oversee DARPA. Yeah. >> Emil, you also oversee DARPA. Yeah. >> Emil, you also oversee DARPA. Yeah. >> Yeah. DARPA is the father of the modern >> Yeah. DARPA is the father of the modern >> Yeah. DARPA is the father of the modern internet and it's created a lot of internet and it's created a lot of internet and it's created a lot of really critical technologies. Can you really critical technologies. Can you really critical technologies. Can you talk about what's going on in there? Are talk about what's going on in there? Are talk about what's going on in there? Are there interesting things that you think there interesting things that you think there interesting things that you think our audience should know about that our audience should know about that our audience should know about that you're trying to push forward? you're trying to push forward? you're trying to push forward? >> I mean there's so it's probably my >> I mean there's so it's probably my >> I mean there's so it's probably my favorite part of of my my office is like favorite part of of my my office is like favorite part of of my my office is like because there that's where you it's sort because there that's where you it's sort because there that's where you it's sort of like it's still a very honored of like it's still a very honored of like it's still a very honored profession to be part of DARPA. like you profession to be part of DARPA. like you profession to be part of DARPA. like you know being a being in government service know being a being in government service know being a being in government service for a long time is sort of reduced in for a long time is sort of reduced in for a long time is sort of reduced in its stature since the Manhattan project its stature since the Manhattan project its stature since the Manhattan project now because now now if you're a great now because now now if you're a great now because now now if you're a great ass you know uh someone who wants to do ass you know uh someone who wants to do ass you know uh someone who wants to do rockets and stuff you go to SpaceX DARPA rockets and stuff you go to SpaceX DARPA rockets and stuff you go to SpaceX DARPA still has the best of the best and so still has the best of the best and so still has the best of the best and so the most creative ideas happen there one the most creative ideas happen there one the most creative ideas happen there one of the things that they're working on of the things that they're working on of the things that they're working on that's public is they're trying to use that's public is they're trying to use that's public is they're trying to use biology to synthesize critical minerals biology to synthesize critical minerals biology to synthesize critical minerals so so how do you so how can you just so so how do you so how can you just so so how do you so how can you just pull them out of ground use biology to pull them out of ground use biology to pull them out of ground use biology to do it so you don't need to do all this do it so you don't need to do all this do it so you don't need to do all this crazy messy dirty refining that would crazy messy dirty refining that would crazy messy dirty refining that would like change the game big time on our like change the game big time on our like change the game big time on our ability to get the critical minerals we ability to get the critical minerals we ability to get the critical minerals we need faster and leaprog the Chinese in need faster and leaprog the Chinese in need faster and leaprog the Chinese in terms of tech. Um, terms of tech. Um, terms of tech. Um, so they're doing a lot of that kind of so they're doing a lot of that kind of so they're doing a lot of that kind of stuff. They're deep in cyber cyber stuff. They're deep in cyber cyber stuff. They're deep in cyber cyber attacks are are the next huge threat attacks are are the next huge threat attacks are are the next huge threat with AI, right? The what what we saw with AI, right? The what what we saw with AI, right? The what what we saw with the creating all these agents to with the creating all these agents to with the creating all these agents to attack systems that anthropic happened attack systems that anthropic happened attack systems that anthropic happened to them. Um, so they're they're they're to them. Um, so they're they're they're to them. Um, so they're they're they're working on that's there's not a ton I working on that's there's not a ton I working on that's there's not a ton I can talk about kind of DARPA because can talk about kind of DARPA because can talk about kind of DARPA because it's so it's so classified, but those it's so it's so classified, but those it's so it's so classified, but those are a couple examples for you. are a couple examples for you. are a couple examples for you. >> All right, speaking of classified, uh, >> All right, speaking of classified, uh, >> All right, speaking of classified, uh, just two quick questions before we wrap just two quick questions before we wrap just two quick questions before we wrap here. Are there aliens? And what are you here. Are there aliens? And what are you here. Are there aliens? And what are you going to tell us? And number two, uh, in going to tell us? And number two, uh, in going to tell us? And number two, uh, in all seriousness, I I'm curious, what all seriousness, I I'm curious, what all seriousness, I I'm curious, what have you learned about China and where have you learned about China and where have you learned about China and where they're at and the threat there and our they're at and the threat there and our they're at and the threat there and our ability to counter it? like give us some ability to counter it? like give us some ability to counter it? like give us some idea of where we're at as a country cuz idea of where we're at as a country cuz idea of where we're at as a country cuz we hear a lot of hyperbolic stuff. we hear a lot of hyperbolic stuff. we hear a lot of hyperbolic stuff. They're building this incredible mobile They're building this incredible mobile They're building this incredible mobile small navy. They've got hypersonics. small navy. They've got hypersonics. small navy. They've got hypersonics. They're just way ahead of us. You know, They're just way ahead of us. You know, They're just way ahead of us. You know, we hear these things. But realistically, we hear these things. But realistically, we hear these things. But realistically, are we competitive? are we competitive? are we competitive? >> Um I fought Well, I'll answer your first >> Um I fought Well, I'll answer your first >> Um I fought Well, I'll answer your first question, which I fought for the alien question, which I fought for the alien question, which I fought for the alien portfolio. I didn't get it. portfolio. I didn't get it. portfolio. I didn't get it. >> Work to do more work to do. >> Work to do more work to do. >> Work to do more work to do. All the guys on my team were like, All the guys on my team were like, All the guys on my team were like, "Dude, you got to get this for us. "Dude, you got to get this for us. "Dude, you got to get this for us. Please talk to the secretary. We want to Please talk to the secretary. We want to Please talk to the secretary. We want to do this." do this." do this." >> But I but I I was like, you as long as I >> But I but I I was like, you as long as I >> But I but I I was like, you as long as I had 100% access to everything, I would had 100% access to everything, I would had 100% access to everything, I would do it because that would be it would be do it because that would be it would be do it because that would be it would be amazing, right? amazing, right? amazing, right? >> Sabers would be a game changer. >> Sabers would be a game changer. >> Sabers would be a game changer. >> Um but on the second one, uh it is true >> Um but on the second one, uh it is true >> Um but on the second one, uh it is true that Chinese have had the greatest that Chinese have had the greatest that Chinese have had the greatest military buildup in world history in the military buildup in world history in the military buildup in world history in the last 15 years. and we're asleep at the last 15 years. and we're asleep at the last 15 years. and we're asleep at the wheel to some degree because we're wheel to some degree because we're wheel to some degree because we're focused on global war and terror. So, focused on global war and terror. So, focused on global war and terror. So, they've advanced without sort of us they've advanced without sort of us they've advanced without sort of us thinking about threat. That being said, thinking about threat. That being said, thinking about threat. That being said, our operational expertise and our space, our operational expertise and our space, our operational expertise and our space, like we have some sophisticated stuff, like we have some sophisticated stuff, like we have some sophisticated stuff, you know, our subs, our space layer, um you know, our subs, our space layer, um you know, our subs, our space layer, um we still have the best stuff in the we still have the best stuff in the we still have the best stuff in the world that does, you know, but but we world that does, you know, but but we world that does, you know, but but we have to make sure that gap doesn't have to make sure that gap doesn't have to make sure that gap doesn't narrow, narrow, narrow, >> right? We can't be complacent. We should >> right? We can't be complacent. We should >> right? We can't be complacent. We should sleep well at night knowing you're sleep well at night knowing you're sleep well at night knowing you're there. Yeah. there. Yeah. there. Yeah. >> Knowing President Trump's allocating >> Knowing President Trump's allocating >> Knowing President Trump's allocating money towards this and he's decisive in money towards this and he's decisive in money towards this and he's decisive in his actions. But we cannot be complacent his actions. But we cannot be complacent his actions. But we cannot be complacent trying to I feel like this week was a trying to I feel like this week was a trying to I feel like this week was a true reminder of how fortunate we are to true reminder of how fortunate we are to true reminder of how fortunate we are to have the defense that we have for the have the defense that we have for the have the defense that we have for the United States. When you look at what United States. When you look at what United States. When you look at what happened in Dubai and in Doha and in Tel happened in Dubai and in Doha and in Tel happened in Dubai and in Doha and in Tel Aviv and you see how people in their Aviv and you see how people in their Aviv and you see how people in their residential homes are getting attacked residential homes are getting attacked residential homes are getting attacked and bombed, you realize just how and bombed, you realize just how and bombed, you realize just how fortunate we are to have all of the fortunate we are to have all of the fortunate we are to have all of the layers of protection that we have by our layers of protection that we have by our layers of protection that we have by our government. And I've actually come government. And I've actually come government. And I've actually come around to this quite a lot. around to this quite a lot. around to this quite a lot. >> I'm a true kind of arguably libertarian >> I'm a true kind of arguably libertarian >> I'm a true kind of arguably libertarian at heart, small government, but the one at heart, small government, but the one at heart, small government, but the one thing that I've realized is so critical thing that I've realized is so critical thing that I've realized is so critical for us to have the freedom to do all the for us to have the freedom to do all the for us to have the freedom to do all the things we want to do is defense. And so things we want to do is defense. And so things we want to do is defense. And so I think it's an amazing institution, I think it's an amazing institution, I think it's an amazing institution, very valuable to the United States. very valuable to the United States. very valuable to the United States. Emil, thank you for what you do. Emil, thank you for what you do. Emil, thank you for what you do. >> Yeah, thank you. Really appreciate you >> Yeah, thank you. Really appreciate you >> Yeah, thank you. Really appreciate you coming on and being so candid and coming on and being so candid and coming on and being so candid and thoughtful and insightful. This has been thoughtful and insightful. This has been thoughtful and insightful. This has been a fun amazing episode. We'll see you a fun amazing episode. We'll see you a fun amazing episode. We'll see you next time. Byebye. next time. Byebye. next time. Byebye. >> Love you, boys. Byebye. >> Love you, boys. Byebye. >> Love you, boys. Byebye. >> Let your winners ride. We open sourced it to the fans and We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. they've just gone crazy with it. they've just gone crazy with it. >> Love you. Queen of >> Love you. Queen of >> Love you. Queen of >> yours. Besties are gone. Besties are gone. >> That is my dog taking your driveway. >> Oh man. Myasher will eat me. >> Oh man. Myasher will eat me. >> We should all just get a room and just >> We should all just get a room and just >> We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all have one big huge orgy cuz they're all have one big huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. It's like this like sexual just useless. It's like this like sexual just useless. It's like this like sexual tension that you just need to release tension that you just need to release tension that you just need to release somehow. >> Your feet. >> Your feet. We need to get merch. I'm going all in.