If You Want A Lower Body Fat Percentage, Watch This ! | Mind Pump 2814

Key Takeaway

For women hovering around 22% body fat who strength train, this is often the ideal look they're seeking - lean and healthy. Going lower through cutting often backfires, causing muscle loss and metabolic slowdown. The better strategy? Build 5-8 pounds of muscle at your current body fat percentage. You'll achieve the sculpted, defined look you want while increasing metabolism and feeling stronger. Building muscle creates the shape and curves, not cutting body fat.

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on a critical but counterintuitive fitness principle for women: avoiding cuts when already lean (22% body fat or lower). The hosts discuss why attempting to get leaner from this point typically results in muscle loss, metabolic slowdown, and worse results. They emphasize that building muscle at a healthy body fat percentage creates better aesthetics and health outcomes than perpetually chasing lower body fat. The conversation draws from real client experiences and explains why the body resists fat loss at very lean levels, especially for women.

Full Transcript

Transcript of If You Want A Lower Body Fat Percentage, Watch This ! | Mind Pump 2814 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Hey ladies, if your body fat percentage is at 22% or lower, don't go in a cut. You're just going to lose muscle. You're probably even going to go higher. And body fat percentage is a bad idea. Let's get into it. Yeah. Yeah. This is uh I felt close to home. We just got off a call recently. I recently shared what um uh Kren and I have done. Uh and it's tough. And I think this is at any age. I think this becomes ex extremely important uh over 35 over 35 post kids per pmenopausal menop like like like this becomes even more it's important no matter what I mean um even in young healthy women that haven't had children yet under the age of 35 I I've seen this where you're in the you know teens and the body just is not responding many times you see things like um period loss, bone density gone down, things like that.

like that. like that. Um, and you feel like you're eating really good, training really hard, and the body is just not showing any results. results. results. No. 20. So, by the way, I want to say this, too. Uh, especially if you strength train. So, if you have good strength, which means you have some muscle, muscle, muscle, 22% 22% 22% is how most women actually want to look. This is how most women want to look. Um, it's a good body fat percentage. It's lean. Uh, you're healthy.

For a lot of women, for most women, if you start to push below this, especially if you push below 20, uh you start to see hormone disruption, disruption, disruption, muscle loss, you feel worn down, um loss of performance, energy goes down. Now, yes, there's those there are and there's always anomalies that are out there uh for both men and women, but this is generally true uh for a lot of women. And again, if this is you, if you're like testing your body fat and you're like 21%, 23%, 22%, should I go in a cut?

No. In fact, you'd be better off just continuing to try to build lean muscle, which often times results in a little bit of a body fat percentage drop anyway. It's just a much better, healthier, sustainable approach. The the constantly chasing uh the the leanness, the super leanness. This is also true for men. for men. for men. It's just more true for women. Women are much more sensitive. Their bodies are much more sensitive to going to start to getting too lean with body fat percentage. With guys, it's also true.

you see guys go below 11% you start to see testosterone drop and a lot of guys when they do that. Uh for women in my experience it tends to be right around below 22 definitely below 20. Well and since you brought up men uh and we just talked about this recently with my own personal experience uh how surprised I was by my body fat test because I didn't feel like um I looked like that. A lot of times when I get a female client that's hovering around the 22% body fat range or so and they're telling me like, "Ah, but I want to look I want more definition muscle." Yeah.

They're not Exactly. is they they could they would get the look that they want by adding 5 to 8 pounds of muscle on their body versus trying to cut their way down to the look. And then and what's amazing about this is and and I promise you they'll get you you'll get the the look you're looking for, the shape, the curve, the smaller waist by adding the muscle. And that seems counterintuitive, counterintuitive, counterintuitive, but it's true. And it is true for both men and women. A lot of times we are are chasing this look.

And the better approach is to feed the body more, build more muscle because even at a higher body fat percentage uh with five more or eight more or for men 10 more pounds of muscle on your body looks radically different totally than you just dropping down 2% body fat from where you're currently at. And currently where you're currently at. And we've seen this time and time again. And I mean and I've experienced it with myself many times where I'm surprised. I'm like, "Oh, wow. would have not thought I was that body fat percentage cuz I know what I feel like when I'm a certain percent.

And it's like I definitely don't feel like the guy that was 19% body fat and started his transformation journey 10 or 13 years ago or whatever when I did that whole uh when I documented that u I'm only 1% different than that guy but look radically different because I have a lot more muscle mass on the body. And I think a lot of women, they get stuck in this this percentage where they're at and they want to get leaner. Many times they're eating in the low 2,000 calorie or lower already and they they want to get a leaner looking and they end up losing muscle.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, just I mean just to kind of paint it differently, let's say uh there's a woman at 22% body fat and she says, "I want to go on a cut. I want to drop uh 3% body fat. I want to get down to 19% body fat." And in that process, let's say she loses, I don't know what the numbers are, but let's say she loses 7 lbs. Uh, but 2 or 3 lbs is muscle, but she lost more body fat than muscle.

And let's say the percentage actually goes down. Is she in a better place? And I would argue no, she's not. That loss of muscle is is resulted in reduced metabolic rate. So, her metabolism slows down a bit. This happens when you cut calories anyway. Even without muscle loss, your metabolism learns learns to slow down. But if you lost muscle, that's most likely going to happen. you'll see some hormone changes. Losing muscle uh tends to cause uh hormone uh changes that are not as ideal. Um and she does she look better even though she's leaner but with less muscle.

I would argue if we take that same woman had her gain 8 pounds even if she gained enough body fat in that 8 lbs to keep her body fat percentage the same because she would have to. Okay? If you gained 8 pounds of lean muscle at 22% body fat without gaining any body fat, you would actually get leaner. Uh because now you have a a smaller percentage of your body's body fat. But let's just say she gained muscle and she gained enough fat to stay at 22%.

So she's 8 lbs heavier on the scale, but she's got more muscle and enough body fat to has been gained to maintain 22%. She's got a faster metabolism and she looks better. Even though her body fat percentage is the same, she looks better. Her arms look leaner. Yeah. Even though she's at the same scale up like eight pounds. Eight pounds. Yeah. Uh and so she's going to look more sculpted in her delts, in her back, her butt, her quads, all the areas that she may have wanted to increase definition.

And yet now she's in a place with a higher resting metabolic rate. So now maintaining 22% means she could eat way more. Uh she's stronger. Her hormone profile is better. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, Oh yeah, she feels a lot better. energy like even like fertility markers and things like I mean you have to pay attention to these things. Your body's naturally telling you you know where your healthy zone is and where you're thriving the most. Even for men like you know if your sex drive like plummets that's something to pay attention to.

Almost every time I've worked with uh a a male client who's natural, because obviously you could take testosterone, so this changes things, but a man who's natural who starts to try to get down to 10% body fat or a little lower. Okay? Like clockwork, they're not as strong, less energy, and there's a reduction in libido. Okay? Now, 14%, 13%, 15% feel great. Once we start to get down to, and this is for men, 10%, 9%, okay, you look leaner, but you feel uh way worse. And I would argue with that same person, if they just built muscle at 12%, 13%.

Uh, objectively, um, they would look better. So, we have to be really careful with this like body fat uh, percentage game. It's not what you think it is. And I'll say this, like, you mentioned fertility. You know how many female clients I had that were fitness fanatics who worked with me who maintained we had to gain body fat? Dude, I had I've had I can think off the top of my head three women that I trained who were athletes. So they were these were like uh they were they were high level college athletes and then they hired me a little later.

So they're in their like you know 20s 30s and they walked around really lean because they like to be really lean. So they walked around 18% or so. Uh, and then they're married and I'm still training them and they're like, "Oh, we're trying to have a baby and it's taking a while and we have the conversation. I'm not a fertility expert, but it would pop up and I'd say, if we bumped your calories, you got your body fat percentage up, I bet it would be a lot easier." And all three times.

three times. three times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All three times. That was the answer. Bump their calories and within two months, uh, they got pregnant. We have to talk about though why, um, why this is so hard though mentally. Uh just because I mean look when Karen and I are going through this right now and uh and we we we tested our body fat. I want to say it's been a month and a half. Uh I have to go back and look at the exact dates. I don't do you remember the dates when I showed you the two tests?

tests? tests? I want to say about a month and like 45 days maybe. days maybe. days maybe. Yeah, about a month and a Yeah, about a month and a half or so in between. And uh I take a lot of responsibility for [ __ ] up as a coach here. Um I shouldn't have had her test that soon. I got so excited. You didn't you didn't mess up with what your strategy. your strategy. your strategy. No, no, no. The frequency of testing. Yeah. Yeah. And I and I'll tell the audience what happened and why.

So, we we started our first test was at like 17 point something% body fat. I I can pull up the numbers to get exact, but like I have all we have all the data. We've tracked everything. tracked everything. tracked everything. So, it's like around it was around 17% body fat or so. We were hovering around 1,900 to 2100 calories. And she stays lean like that year round. She and and she really wants to build muscle. The feedback from her shows when she's got on the judges are like she needs more mass, she needs more size.

And so this is this is why she she came to me to help her through this process. Now what I know is what we're talking about right now. I know that from all my experience that a a woman's body when it's in the teen teens, especially like 17, uh it doesn't respond very well to both burning body fat and building muscle uh in that low. It's kind of in survival mode. And if we want to lean out and get more shredded or in her case, build a bunch of muscle already, the body fat percentage has got to come up.

That's right. And so I knew this inevitably that we were going to come up a little bit on body fat percentage. My hope was to show her in that short period of time that we also would have built some muscle, but that didn't happen. happen. happen. A month and a half goes by, we're increasing calories and all that happened in that and I mean she's dialed right. We to the calorie we know exactly what we're consuming. Um she went from 19 to 2100 cups to what?

We also have a new bundle, the spring bundle, map symmetry, maps prime, and the advanced training techniques guide. All of that together, 50% off, 147. That's it. Go to mapsmarch.com. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Okay. So, she we were up we're up to between 26 and 2,800 calories a day.

Five five 600 more calories a day. Plus dramatically reduce volume. So, I way less exercise. I I reduced her volume probably in half. I have to ask her to get specifics like on what she would say is the the total volume I've cut out. But I've cut out probably half of the volume that she was doing. Uh I minimize her steps. I said I don't want so I've reduced a lot of that. All of this intentional cuz I knew I wanted to increase body fat percentage but I was hoping I also would build some muscle on that and she looks so good to me right now and we're hitting PRs like every week.

every week. every week. She It's funny too cuz she looks way better. better. better. Yes. So look looks And that's what it is. Everybody's telling me like dude Karen looks so good. I'm like I know I know. I'm so proud of her. She's kicking ass right now. And I'm like she's hitting PR today. And so I jumped the gun of even like knowing better that I should should have probably stayed a little bit longer. I I wanted to show her really quick like look at what we're already doing.

Let's keep pushing, right? Uh and what came back was devastating, I know, to her, you know, and frustrating to me and frustrating to me because I should have known better. I should have waited longer and delayed longer. Um I I got antsy and I did that. And so imagine her pushing as hard as she's been pushing for me, listening to everything I'm telling her to do. And all that happened was literally no pounds of muscle were built and we only put on body fat. So we've gone up on the scale like 8 lb and it's been it's all registered.

Which, by the way, she's still lean. Right. Right. We're still at She's at 19%. 19%. 19%. She went up. She went up to 19%. Right. We went from 17 to 19% body fat. Now I know the average person might be, "Oh my god, I wish I would." But you got to understand where this is all relative mentally. Yeah. It's all relative to what that has to feel like as far as discouraging for a client to go through. And I'm going to add to this, right? So what I think you're on point, bro.

I think 100% on point. You jump the gun a little bit because here's what'll happen with muscle gain. This is this is what happens with muscle gain predictably. You get, if you're eating right, you're doing good, you know, uh, programming, you get stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger muscle. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. It's not like stronger muscle, stronger muscle. It's like you get stronger for And she's hitting PRs. Yeah, consistently we can expect over the next 30 days for her to gain muscle. I mean, we're talking about she's added what how much has she added to some of her lifts?

her lifts? her lifts? Oh, yeah. She she's up 25 50 lbs on the big lifts like hip thrust, squatting. Like Like Like that's going to turn into muscle. That's just how it works. I would even add this to that that layer that you said. It looks like this. Getting healthier, getting healthier, getting healthier, getting stronger, getting stronger, getting stronger. Then comes the muscle and muscle and the muscle. And so that I think that's the part that is that you people have to understand is that when you're at that lean of a body fat percentage with that low of a calorie, the body is not in a healthy place.

It may look good to the average person who's looking out, but it's not in a in a healthy place. And if the longer it's been in that place, the less it feels healthy. And so it's not even going to be, and this is where I screwed up, it's going to be longer than just 45 days of being healthy. That's right. and you know feeding properly, reducing the volume to where it should be. It's finally going like, "Oh, yeah." And it's like, and it's giving us some positive feedback like, "Here you go.

You're getting a little bit stronger. You're starting to get a little bit stronger." But it's not giving us so much positive feedback that we see this awesome change on the scale of all muscle. So, the question, just not to get too deep in the weeds, the question is, how could she gain so much strength without it registering as muscle gain? Well, first off, uh, if you're too lean, you're not going to have good neural drive uh, and good uh, contraction. You're just You're just You're just recovery.

So, that's number one. So, what she's noticed are central nervous system adaptations, more energy, more fuel, uh reduced volume, which is allowing her to get those strength gains. So, that's where that comes from first. Now, as you continue down this path, the only way her she's going to continue to get stronger is if muscle fibers actually grow larger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where you see, and this happen this happens to guys, too. Like, I'll get stronger, stronger, stronger, and then I'll see the central nervous system, then it goes to muscle building.

muscle building. muscle building. That's right. Now, as far as like just to use an example of a guy, if I had a guy come up to me who religiously kept his body fat at 8%. Okay, that's like a Karen, like a male Karen, 8%. We just had that caller, remember? The bodybuilder caller who I talked to. That's right. That's right. So, you got a guy who comes to me and he's like, he's just very religious about keeping his body fat at 8%, which is like Kurin for her 17%.

8% all the time. He's like, I want to gain some mass. I want to gain some muscle. You're going to have to gain some body fat, bro. It ain't going to happen 8% body fat. Yeah, we actually have to gain some body fat to get your body to build some muscle. That's just the way it works. And and again, I'm going to speak to people and guys bodies are more resilient to that. that. that. They're they are far more resilient at lean body lean body lean body and yet still would have to do that with still would have to the same advice we gave that guy.

this guy, this iron man running bodybuilding dude who's at like single digit body fat is wanting to go build and it's like, dude, we're we're going to have I'm going to have to put body fat percentage, increase calories, reduce all your training volume. Well, I'll say this, for a guy to significantly affect his fertility to where he becomes infertile, he has to diet and overtrain for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For that to happen, he like for a long time. women uh most high school and college female athletes don't have their period.

That's how sensitive Yeah. their bodies are to just kind of overproduce and and and and and the baby's in you. That's what makes that's what makes the human body so magical and special. The fact that because women have this ability to reproduce and we do not, it has to be kept at a certain health level in order to carry the life of another baby. I'm glad you said that because uh peak peak peak shredded Instagram look is never peak health. health. health. No, No, No, peak health is peak fertility.

This is true for both men and women. For both men and women, this is peak health, peak hormone health, peak all that is is peak fertility is typically what it looks like. But again, if you're if you're listening and you're like, "Oh, I want you're testing your body fat and you're like, I'm at 22%. I'm at 21%." I want to get leaner. Stop. Don't. Now, you can dip into 18%, but get right back out. But again, even there, if you're at 22% body fat and your metabolism is roaring, you've been doing it right.

You've you're eating a lot of calories. You want to dip into 18% for a month, okay, fine, but come back right back out. But if you're sitting at 22%, you're eating, you know, 2200 calories, you're working out five days a week, the worst thing you could do is try to go on a cut. Yeah. What'll happen is you're gonna you're gonna feel like crap and you're going to lose muscle. And oftentimes what happens, and this is where it gets really frustrating. I've seen this so many times, and it's such a frustrating place to be.

They lose weight on the scale, they beat themselves up, they restrict their calories, like, "Oh my god, I'm so excited." They get a body fat test, comes back the same. What the hell just happened? I just did everything I thought. I feel terrible. I'm working out more. My body fat percentage stayed the same. the same. the same. How did that happen? Well, you lost you lost muscle. In fact, uh the getting leaner part, ironically, would be to just build muscle. That'll make the getting lean leaner.

No, that's that's just for sure for and and the hard part is uh the uncomfortable phase, uncomfortable phase, uncomfortable phase, right? The the uncomfortable phase of the body getting up to that higher body fat percentage to getting in a healthier place. the delayed gratification of the the muscle packing on like you said. It's like we first get healthy healthy healthy then we get strong strong strong and then comes the muscle muscle muscle. Yes. Yes. Yes. And and and that's and that's uh different for everybody depending on how like the longer you've kept yourself in that low calorie, low body fat percentage, the longer it most likely takes to get healthy and then to get strong and then to build muscle.

And so, and the shorter that you've been in that time, the more likely it is that you can rebound pretty quick. This is why uh even though there's not a large percentage of these people, but there is a percentage of people that compete that are we talked to another lady that had a very healthy relationship with competing, right? competing, right? competing, right? And you could you could tell by the way she looks, who feels how she was eating like. like. like. And so if you for the most time you're in an off season, you eat high calorie and then you get shredded for one show and then you go get back back to a higher body fat, you can you can do that.

and and and the body will respond relatively quick. But if you've been in this like perpetual cycle of very low calorie, trying to always push to a lower body fat percentage, the body is just resisting. just resisting. just resisting. It's just it's crazy to me how much uh and media has always done this. It's done this for a long time. Now with social media, we've like normalized uh these like really unhealthy um you know, ideals. know, ideals. know, ideals. It's always been that way though. It has.

It's always been that But what I mean by that is social media is so in your face all the time that you we're bombarded by it. Totally. Totally. Totally. And it's so crazy. It's like what's the ideal? The ideal now is this uh crazy unhealthy unhealthy unhealthy uh very unattainable. Well, haven't we done studies now too on like uh like uh your likelihood of like your perceived happiness based off how how many hours you are on social. There's a strong correlation. Yeah, there's a major correlation to that.

I mean because it's uh I mean it what is it? Comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah, joy. Yeah, joy. Yeah, you can't help but and this this is not just body. It could be success. I mean that's the other thing. People that are striving to do better in their life. If you opened up Instagram, it would you would think every 22year-old uh is rich and why aren't you? You know what I'm saying? Like saying? Like saying? Like way stronger. way stronger. way stronger. Yeah. Way Yeah.

way stronger, way richer, way rippier, faster. faster. faster. It's just and and the algorithm is designed the more you hover over it and look at it, the more you get of it. It's just always just always just always so then before you know it, you're the only one who's not rich. It's just wild to me because we've all we've all worked in gyms uh most of our lives. lives. lives. So you already have a self- selection bias of like people who work out. Do you know how often we see in the abs in the gym?

You don't abs if you listen long enough. You've heard me tell it's been a long time since I told this story, but I used to do this when I used to present to people. When I would get somebody who was intimidated by the gym and I was sitting down presenting them the membership and and training and stuff like that and ah you know I'm just I feel really insecure. I would literally mid I'd say stand we this stand up and look around. I want you stand up.

I want you to find me five intimidating bodies that you see out there and a lot of times they would you'd see this look on their face. They're like oh wow wow wow bunch of normal people. Everybody looks like me. Say like a like a person in here trying to get healthy. I was like, that's most the gym. Most the commercial gyms are a bunch of average looking people that are struggling their way through and not doing it the best way. I mean that it just you rarely see a body that is jacked and rip.

Now there are obviously anomaly gyms. anomaly gyms. anomaly gyms. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That have attracted you gravitate to those ones, right? But your your general lifetime 24-hour fitness crunch uh insert whatever big commercial. They're generally going to be more fitter than the average population. But you ain't watching a bunch of shredded. They're fitter than if you go to Disneyland. You know what I'm saying? They're definitely fitter than the people that go to Disneyland. Hey, that'll make you feel good. Feel bad about yourself. Go to Disneyland.

Disney World. Disney World. Disney World. That's where the average person Disney World Disney World is the worst. Way worse. Remember I sent you guys videos, dude. Traffic jams. Traffic jams with scooters. I know. Double and double fisting like a super big gulp looking drink with a nachos weather. Yeah. weather. Yeah. weather. Yeah. Yeah. It was It was crazy. I remember you guys telling me that I went like uh what 2 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went to was Yeah. 2 years ago I think it was.

it was. it was. It's cuz the south is there so it's a little wor Disneyland's like that too but Disney World was No. World is worse. Yeah, I'd never been to world until this time. And and it's exactly how you described it. It's like I've never seen so many rascal scooters in a in a as seriously like you you you you will go there for one day and see more Rascal scooters than you will see in a decade of like in in the real world. Like that's how like centralized that is.

It's it's a it's a wild thing. And it's because of just it's obesity, not because they had like a knee surgery. I mean, I'm sure there's exceptions that there's some people out there, but there, but there, but no, they're just they're just they can't walk. walk. walk. It's always interesting to me even in the Midwest like the propensity for people to be like they're drinking Mountain Dew. They're drinking the most the highest sugar drinks like you know the sweet teas and you know stuff that's like that's what's popular and it was like mindblowing to me.

I was like this is just street liquid crack you know you guys are drinking all you know. You think a lot of that too is um just because trends tend to start from the outside and come in. I guess that wouldn't explain Florida very well cuz I'm like sometimes like it just takes a while before that stuff it's cultural it's cultural it's cultural stuff gets there. It's cultural. There's uh studies on Mexico. This is really interesting. Mexico's obesity rate uh after Coca-Cola after Coca-Cola after Coca-Cola exploded after Coca-Cola after they were actually one of the leaner fitter, right?

fitter, right? fitter, right? They didn't have an issue with obesity and they they just was a huge driver of that dude. Oh yeah. I mean, it's liquid calories right in your face all day. Well, it doesn't help they have terrible water, too. water, too. water, too. So, all a sudden, you insert a different option that's loaded full of sugar and tastes good. tastes good. tastes good. Like, it's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, well, take a chance dying or drink soda. We got clean soda for you, dude.

That's true everywhere. true everywhere. true everywhere. Serious, dude. Serious, dude. Serious, dude. I know. It's crazy. Hey, I got to tell you. So, I got a friend of mine you. So, I got a friend of mine uh who's been using creatine. Uh, so we recommend creatine all the time, but this friend of mine has does a job that requires um him to lose a lot of sleep at times. Okay. Because he's got to work overnight. He's doing, you know, he's working emergency, that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so he tried he's been doing the highdose creatine. highdose creatine. highdose creatine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To see if it helps with uh his brain function stuff. And he's like, "Bro, it's crazy." it's crazy." it's crazy." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. The studies on that is wild. like any like they can if you are sleepd deprived you can do a test and we can see that you're sleep deprived. In studies they'll give people 20 grams of creatine which is a very high dose and it almost gets rid of all of the cognitive uh symptoms of sleep deprivation.

So it's not going to obviously I don't think you can not sleep and eat creatine but that's crazy. There's nothing that's ever done that. You give someone meth and it's not going to completely get rid of some of those effects. effects. effects. I I wonder at what what the threshold is. So, you know, I'm I'm like tracking sleep like crazy right now, which by the way, last night scored my highest score ever, 87. The I'm on the hunt for 90. I've never seen 90 before. Competitive with sleep.

I am very competitive with sleeping. I am becoming competitive with this. I'm on it. And I I I have plans to do some things soon that I'm going to add to and track and change. And so, I'll I'll I'll get back to you. Uh so let's say so I had I traveled which that definitely gave me some some low7s which uh for me which is great though because for me now that's considered low is low7s which is awesome. That's a huge improvement for me. I used to score in the 50s and 60s and all the time.

So uh low low7s. So do you think um there's still benefit at that cuz it's not that's not like sleep depriv. I'm not like way deprived but I'm not good. So what the theory is is that um with sleep deprivation or stress you get um uh energy energ basically energy creation dysfunction or mitochondrial dysfunction and because ATP is like this primary source of energy for basically all your cells. When you use uh creatine you have more ATP. We know what this does for athletic performance. So more ATP means you're stronger.

Uh that probably results in more muscle gain. Creatine, we've known this for a long time. But the brain uses a lot of ATP. Uh now you have to take more creatine to influence brain metabolism. Higher dose five grams for muscle probably closer to 15. 15. 15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh for the brain, but yes, absolutely. So that's I need I'm trying to get better about better about better about like okay like today was great. 8 87. So I feel good. So I'll take my normal dose of creatine.

What I haven't been good about and consistent about is recognizing like okay there was a day or two there where that was bad. like try intentionally make a I think because we have some relatively long studies that show creatine is really safe. It's this really really safe uh compound that we've got lots of studies on creatine. I think if you have a job that's demanding uh stress as a parent um something that requires you to be sharp I think it would not be a bad idea to always be in the higher you know 10 to 15 grams all the time because of all the uh the mental load uh you know.

Yeah. So, I should probably what I should do is what you're saying is just try and train myself that it's obviously I have plenty of access to it. Yeah, he he's using the Keon cuz it's like the pure powder like pure pure super well sourced creatine powder you know uh just you know take a scoop of it put it in water drop in your face whatever wash it down uh a few times a day. Does Kon have the um I know obviously they have the the powder in the jug.

Do they do they make individual packets too now? I thought I saw one. Oh, do they? Let me check it out. Look, look up look up and see that if if they do. Um I mean Keon's always I mean super quality. super quality. super quality. Yeah, it's high quality. Super super high quality uh stuff. So yeah, it's good. I the reason why I asked that too because I didn't know about the their uh their other uh EA's done differently and they they have it in different forms.

Flavored and stuff. Yeah, flavored. And then also this is just powder. Yeah, they have it in pills. They have it in powder. And so I'm wondering if they have other forms they have if they have other forms besides just the the I think they only have the plain No packets either. packets either. packets either. And it's in the bottle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, it's just the EAS that come in the pills or the powder. Correct. Okay. So, I was wondering if they had different options.

different options. different options. I was uh dude uh Jay Campbell him he he texts me every once in a while. You know, Jay, he's like everything's great. Got this new thing or whatever. But, bro, that myatin inhibiting peptide that they worked on, remember he talked about this? about this? about this? Yeah, they said that. So, they actually come out with it. So, it's got way more fistin or fist statin. Look it up, Doug. Let me see if I'm saying it right. I don't know. I've heard it.

heard it. heard it. So, this peptide's been around for a long time. I just I'm going to talk about it cuz keep your eyes on this because I think uh this is where Dr. Khan was trying to sell. This is going to be probably used by everyone. everyone. everyone. Didn't we inject it? Yeah. In the arm. No, the one. Yeah. No, he gave us he he said it was his own one time use it, it stays in your body forever type of deal. No, not forever.

It was like a year or two. two. two. A year or something like that. So, I didn't really notice much from that. I don't notice a lot from I don't notice a lot from a lot of Well, so listen to this. So Jay uh I've been talking to him and you know Jay Joe's like Jay's like he loves hyping everything up. everything up. everything up. So I'm always like teasing him, right? But he's showing me pictures of these people before and after himself. He's like, "Bro, this stuff is so festin is that is that what it is?" Fostatin is the thing he was talking about.

about. about. Okay. So fallatin's been around for a while. It's a peptide that reduces myostatin inhibi uh um activity. So myostatin is like it's like what puts the brakes on muscle growth. And if you can effectively block myostatin, which we don't haven't done, they can do this genetically with animals, you just build muscle. It's crazy. So like the the this all this research is going into these kind of myostatin inhibiting pathways because of GLP-1 drugs. Are they combining them together? That's what they did in some of these studies where they'll take people on they've done it with monkeys so far where they put them on GLP1 then they'll put them on a myostatin like really powerful myostatin inhibiting drug and they don't lose any muscle.

In fact, they actually gain muscle on low. It's really weird and wild. So, it's crazy like where this is going. But anyway, Jay's guy is a chemist and he figured out how to uh make the false statin long acting because the problem with false statin was it was so short acting you'd have to literally use it like 10 times a day just to keep it active. Wow. Wow. Wow. Uh there what is that one called? Uh statin. statin. statin. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. His is long acting and he's been telling me and showing me pictures and what people are writing and this is like bro this this is going to take the athletic and bodybuilding world by storm.

storm. storm. Either this or stuff like this. Here's where I think it's it's going to be a huge mistake for a lot of be a huge mistake for a lot of people. Um, and this is just my personal opinion based off of what I'm been experimenting with myself and have come to realize the hard way is what one of my greatest strengths I talk about is that I have this ability to switch it on diet training and like just make real quick and multiple times now I've allowed myself to fall off the wagon come back and when I come back on I put on 15 to 20 pounds of muscle like that I mean fast.

But so then all of a sudden all these injuries start out. You know what? That's a good question. I'm gonna ask Jay if this would help you with that. with that. with that. I would think it'd be worse. Why that? What's the quality? Cuz wasn't that like a contention there? Well, the stud the monkey studies we're talking about is not this. They're using something so powerful that these monkeys didn't do anything and they were eating low calories. low calories. low calories. Yeah. But see, that doesn't make any sense.

You know that. Okay. Okay. So, you get that signal, but like where's the stress and what's what's compressing it into like informing it? I don't know if it would build muscle without strength training. That's a good question. So, his his guys are all bodybuilders. They're all guy. They're all dudes. all dudes. all dudes. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. They're all strength training. So, he's he himself has gained 8 pounds of lean body mass in uh less than a year, which for Jay is a lot of muscle.

He's been strength training for a long time. Sure. just from using uh So, I'm just saying like this is this new frontier is gonna be wild, dude. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it's gonna be it's non hormonal. It's gonna be wild. And I'm gonna ask him about that with you because I wonder if it'll be worse or better. Yeah. My first uh instinct instinct instinct is Yeah. that it's worse. Slow down your I Yeah, I need to in and this is where I'm at right now. It's a It's a really annoying place for me to train.

Uh really annoying. really annoying. really annoying. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. It's like uh it's to be going to the gym and like lifting and your nickname is Mr. Glass. Yeah, that is the nickname you've given me now. me now. me now. That's messed up. It is. I'm sorry, bro. It's really uh help. It's It's But this is the only conclusion I've come to is that it has to be something like that. It's too rap. It's so rapid and you took such a long time off from being really consistent.

consistent. consistent. Uh gaining 15 pounds of muscle in like, you know, two months. Not even 30 days. Not even. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing it in That's right. You tracked it. tracked it. tracked it. Oh, yeah. I'm doing I'm doing it in 30 days. I did I did 21 The last time I did crazy tracking and showed everybody. It was It's It was 20 21 pounds in 30 days. It's all muscle memory, everybody. Everyone's like, "Oh, it's real." Okay, buddy. buddy. buddy. This was all gaining muscle back.

I'll do I'll do it again for you. It's like literally brought it back. I It What And how that happens so quickly back and forth for me is cuz I I'm also guilty of the other way. Like when I'm off I I I also don't eat. I don't eat. I'm I like it's easy for me to skip the first two meals of the day and then eat and then so my calories dramatic also losing That's right. Exactly. My calories dramatically drop. My protein gets cut in half or more.

Um I'm not stimulating it by lifting consistently. So it just pairs down. I lose I I I lose some weight sometimes. Sometimes I gain a little because I'm drinking eating bad stuff. And so I don't really change a lot on the scale. But I So I gain body fat. I lose muscle rapidly. see maybe about a I don't know 10 pound change on the scale or whatever like that but definitely I can huge different composition change and then I turn it on and I go the other opposite I'm like dialed dialed hitting everything tracking everything lifting progressive overload week over week like I mean and then I just it all comes back and then all a sudden the thing that happens is I am quote unquote feeling so good in the gym I I just keep lifting more because I can I feel like I can totally lift weight and I'm not by the way I'm not pushing It's not like I'm going in there and going like trying to hit PRs, hitting singles.

It's just that every time I come back to squats, I can add another quarter on and then add another quarter on and it's just like and then all a sudden I feel pulls, tears, I feel strains and it just keeps happening to me. You got to like settle and do it slowly and get your body used to. Yeah. And just do that for a while. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. I'm like, I'm doing the same weights, which is so counterintuitive for me when it's like when I know I can do more and but I know I'm like I just need to stay here for a while and really just condition the body and the joints.

the joints. the joints. What a weird problem to have. Weird. Weird. Weird. You know what I mean? Weird weird. Weird weird. Weird weird. Stop progressing too fast. Stop it. And but what I know is that it's the same thing that I said has been so awesome about having all this muscle memory from getting older. the the the downfall of is is what I'm realizing now is just when it comes back that quick, it presents other challenges. Totally. And it's the and the irony of that is just, you know, and I and I understand too, uh, being on hormone replacement therapy, it feeds into that.

If I was letting myself be low testosterone, um, at my levels where now, I wouldn't be able to build that back that fast. What allows me to do that is I've got good high testosterone. I've got optimal testosterone levels. And so, you know, the body naturally would put put rate breaks on that for me, but uh you know, I keep it at optimal levels. optimal levels. optimal levels. I didn't even consider that. Oh, yeah. And so it it so it packs it on where so yeah, it's a blessing and a curse.

curse. curse. Yeah. I'm having kind of like an entirely different experience right now. It's like, so I have had like this run of maybe a week of the most high intensity, high volume, like work capacity, you know, just physically exhausting [ __ ] exhausting [ __ ] exhausting [ __ ] You're you're digging holes, bro. Yeah. And and I feel the best I felt in a long time. And it's like really like mixed emotions about it because it's like I used to train at a really high intensity all the time and then like really dramatically shifted because of you know everything we talk about and it made a big huge difference cuz I just trained that way forever and then this stark shift was like my body responded and I had all this like crazy progress to the point where I feel like I've been too low volume for too long to now like I'm jumping up high but but I'm I'm going full You know what?

Uh full tilt. full tilt. full tilt. Yeah, full tilt. I like that. It's better. Um better. Um better. Um full tilt all the way. And I'm just like I have to taper that now cuz I'm like cuz I'm I'm like it antsy to now bring that into my training more cuz it's like I'm still I'm lifting weights, but I'm also doing all this manual labor work and all this kind of stuff. Just trying to like, you know, be productive, get on top of things. And uh and I and I've getting the best sleep.

Granted, I've been outside and I've been getting a lot of sun, you know, I've been eating a lot more and so you could like factor a lot of these other things in. Plus, we're so sedentary, dude. But yeah, this so that Okay. Yes. So, you want to know something interesting since you went this direction about last night's sleep score? Part of it that's a little wild to me is like it wasn't my best uh turning everything off early, getting to bed on my consistent time last night.

You know what I did yesterday was I did an hour in the red light sauna. I did an hour of cardio and I trained all all in the day and and I and I just slept. We're I think we have become so sedentary sedentary sedentary for so long here. That's it. That's it. That's it. And if it's been kill me, dude. If we're here from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. p.m. p.m. Just for the listeners, we will get approximately a 15 to 20 minute walk. That's it.

Yeah, that's it. The rest of it's sitting here doing the show in meetings, uh, doing business stuff. So, that's it from 9 to 5. 5. 5. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doing 20 minutes of walking. Yeah. That's way sedentary, bro. It's totally even even the hour hour on the treadmill and working out still put me under a 10,000 step day. It was an appropriate activity day. Yeah, that's and and then I got this great and then and then also I sit in the red light for the red light sauna for for an hour.

And so I think my body just needed to get exhausted like that. And then I and like I said, I didn't even have my best sleep routine. I'm like I look back I actually told I'm like man I told you I wanted to get to bed early and we ended up staying up late talking and all stuff like that. And I'm like but what I so I got an 87 on my score. It's so weird. But the only I can draw it back to is like oh I did all those things.

I'm like man if I would have also got to bed on time maybe I would have actually hit that elusive 90 that I've been trying to to to get after. But it what it highlighted to me more than anything else is like God that's how much I need to get more of that in my life because my body needs to Yeah. I need to figure this out how to get that in there. Is there somewhere probably in the middle though for you? I feel like I can't sustain this.

And I was talking to Courtney about that last night. It was just like oh my god I could barely even move my arms. Like I was just like so fried. And but but at the same time I had this weird you know like you get that that kind of rush. It's probably the cortisol jerky feeling, you know, where I was just like, "Oh, I'm like I feel really like weirdly good and, you know, energized, but at the same time, my body was trashed. I can feel it." Maybe we should have like treadmills while we podcast or something.

Walking. It's so silly to me. I know. I get it. You're moving, but you know, you see like fitness podcasters and they'll do the podcast, but they're on a treadmill while they're talking. It's so Yeah. But I get it at the same time cuz Yeah. I mean, I get it. Well, I think it would be just you you did this, you know, kudos to you starting us on this was like you were like we need at least after the pocket get up and do our and we we we and that's minimal.

It just helps with our show. our show. our show. Yeah. Well, what what we should do is we should do it before also now is like we should just agree when we get here because we kind of have a slow start anyways. Do two a day. Hey, let's Yeah, exactly. Let's go walk before the first one and then do our our break and do another one and even then we're still going to be but I mean I think I think that in itself will create will actually increase our productivity.

I I I I think so too. And so I think so too. I I think so too. And so it'd be a good a good habit for and that I mean and by the way I'm not advocating for an hour of sauna, hour of cardio, hour of training the average person, but what it really highlighted to me was just how to your point how sedentary we've been, how much my body needs more of that, which is not normally the person who listens to this podcast is normally a fitness enthusiast type of person.

person. person. So it's not the recipe for the average person. I just we are we sit in here for for So for So for So yeah, speaking of all that, I just uh God, you know what's been so rewarding? um because you know we've been doing this now for over over 10 years and I haven't really I haven't personal trained uh for most of that time but now we have trainers and coaches here that train clients in person and virtually and you know we get to kind of be a part of it here and there and I always tell the the trainers I' I get bring me in on the calls I'd love to talk to people if you need help or if the person's a fan of the show wants to meet like I'd love to just get to know these people.

Well yesterday I was on uh with Will and one of his clients. I won't say her name just to protect her privacy, but I've talked to her uh several times now, and you guys, the improvement that she's been going through and seeing is I emotional. It it got me emotional. So, this person working with Will was came out of an intreatment uh facility for eating disorder. eating disorder. eating disorder. So, she started work she I know you're talking talking talking her Yeah, her insurance was in the cover therapist.

She couldn't find a good one. Uh she was a fan of the show. She called in and wanted to work with one of our trainers and coaches and we did the whole like, "Okay, we're not therapists, but we can help you with the fitness and all all that stuff." Anyway, uh I got on with her and I haven't seen her probably in in in it's been maybe 45 days. And just the way she looked was so dramatically different. She looks so vibrant, awesome, so healthy. and she's taking these baby steps uh because she I mean she was just really extreme in one direction.

So we're taking these steps with eating more, exercising less because she's do chronic exerciser like and you know how are you thinking about yourself? It's we're having these conversations just bro I got on camera I looked at her and I almost like I was tearing up just to see the difference in her face her face her face and her hair and her health. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Now you got on was she having more challenges or was she excited about She's pumped. She's pumped.

She's pumped. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. She's pumped. She's so excited. So like, I can't believe I'm here here here and my family's excited and my dog, you know, my, you know, this is happening that all this positive stuff. She's still, we're still processing through, still moving through, but this is the best. I think she told me this is the best she's ever done. And her strengths going up and it's just so cool. It's just so cool to see that, you know, know, know, super encouraging to see that.

Super Will is doing a phenomenal job with her. He's a really good coach. It's so great. his brother got to sit in cuz now he's he's working here. It's so wild to see that uh so what's it so different for me is most of my career even less than personal training I trainers. trainers. trainers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so that I'm used to having a staff of 15 to 20 trainers working for me. I've had hundreds over the over the decades that have worked for me.

And I've never seen anything like the team that we have. And it's obviously I didn't have this podcast, right? And so a lot of it it took it would take a a year maybe two years of really really developing a trainer before they were like real good trainers. And these trainers Yeah. 3 months. It's like they jumped 5 10 years of experience in a year. They just leaprogged to that point. Like I I'm I listen to them communicate to the clients like dude I couldn't communicate to my clients like that till like year eight or nine.

Stumbling my words is terrible. Yes. And so it's so cool to see these and and it's not because they have 8 n years of experience. Some of them will have less than a couple years and but it's they all have been podcast. podcast. podcast. I came out of that right uh with Will. I come in here um Doug and I are watching something. So I'm here for a bit. I'm doing some work. I had to write some emails. emails. emails. Then I walk out and all the trainers are sitting in that area and they're reviewing coaching calls.

Yeah. for each other, which is phenomenal. They're literally watching and like, "How could you have communicated this better? How can you help with your clients consistency? consistency? consistency? Um, do you think this was the right uh you know, the right advice?" And they're just like and they're like, it's like that's part of the reason is is is the way that they're working on it. It's amazing. amazing. amazing. It's amazing how these guys the Friday meetings are really cool, too, where uh in fact, Kyle has just evolved it to another layer to it.

It's similar where all the coaches and trainers half the call is designed to client challenges is what we call it. um where you know what are some of the challenges you and every trainer that has one will start to share oh I've got a client we're struggling with this this and that then you get to hear you know 22 other trainers that are are all brilliant that are hey this has worked for me in the past try this and so they're all all learning together and then from there now it breaks up into these subgroups and so and they're led by some of our leader trainers that are leading the other trainers and so educating them and so that's the big focus right now um I shared a thing with Kyle.

Uh that was was huge for me when I was leading trainers. And I and I remember I was so frustrated that it came so late in my career because I was like, man, I wish someone would have told me this sooner, but it was this um was a stat that this was 24 fitness days that they had put up on the projector at one of these big meetings. And it was a a trainer that had one uh certification, two certification, three certification, four. If you had one certification, you averaged this many clients in a month, you project you did this much revenue and you stayed this long in the company and and and that all those line items dramatically increased by every certification that the trainer got.

The moral of the story was just the more educated they were, the more they were, the better. Yeah. The better they were, the longer they stayed, the more sales they did, the more clients they trained. It was just like it was a and it was a huge leap. And I remember going back to my club that very next day and going like, okay, at that time I had two trainers that were uh going through the medical program to be doctors, really intelligent, already had multiple certifications.

And I started to allocate uh my budget without getting approval to do this cuz they would have said no. I just did it anyways. And I paid those trainers to you were blacklisted. I paid those trainers to elevate all their other trainers, get them up on their certifications. And so and it was that after that was the baddest team. Justin was a part of that team. Uh you know we I had the smallest team. I dropped down I think 12 trainers we were running at one time.

Broke all kinds of records. All master trainers and it was the easiest my job ever was. And so a big focus right now is uh we're pulling in Brink Shallow and then uh one other one I forgot who who we're working on that um we're going to pay to take all of them through and be become masters at all those disciplines and so that's going to be great. I know to think how badass they already are is bringing them all to Yeah. Yeah. So uh I'm super excited for what's coming down the pipe with that.

Um so I'm gonna change topics. Uh, so the platform X just came out with this new policy that I think a lot of other platforms are going to follow suit on. So, uh, you guys already see this that AI content AI content AI content Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. is just everywhere. Yeah. It's it's all over the place. It's um, um, um, it's getting so good, too. It's so hard to distinguish whether it's It is. And you have to I shared I shared a a fake video thinking it was real day.

And it's just going to get worse. So X just did this. They said they just passed the policy. If you're caught posting an AI generated video without disclosing that it's AI, you get suspended from producing from create getting any revenue. So, creator revenue sharing for 90 days. If you repeat as an offender, they'll ban you permanently. So, I think it's I think this is what the other platforms have to do. do. do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, what's going to happen is uh and you're seeing this right now with the war in Iran.

What is real? It's the deception. Yeah. you who knows what the what the what the and Iran's producing it, Russia's producing it, America's producing it, people are producing it for views. You're watching it come through. Is that real? Did they just bomb that place? Is that a real new airplane? Is that Did that person just verified? verified? verified? Yeah. Did that is that, you know, it's just it's crazy and it's just going to get worse. So, I think that they have to do I think these platforms are going to have to say, "Look, if we catch you and you don't disclose it, you're going to pay a penalty." I know uh YouTube did something similar.

YouTube demonetized any any AI pages, too. So, that's the the quick and easy way to do it is to do that. It's gonna be interesting how they do that because a lot of these pages uh aren't necessarily monetizing though either. So, like in there's plenty of like uh you know, you know, you know, like just random Yeah, just random popular pages. Well, at the moment, what happens on X, this is the best platform I've seen for AI, and it's not great yet, but it's the best one, is that they'll use Grock, cuz Grock is the AI that they use on X.

And so a video will get posted. All someone has to do is underneath it they ask Grock. Yeah. Hey Grock, is this is this video real? Yeah. real? Yeah. real? Yeah. And then Grock like right away is, you know, oh no, this is actually a video from 2018. It's not, you know, this or no, this is an AI created video. This is not real. not real. not real. And so I So you have to wait a second, but they're able to do that pretty well so far.

So yeah, it's kind of cool. Anyway, I saw Doug yesterday. He's I think he's one of the the culprits for the missing Chris Power bags. Oh, Oh, Oh, he was over there crushing. I didn't think you liked them as much as I did. These you crush a whole I mean they're my dirty little secret now. You have another dirty secret. We don't want to talk about that one. But you were eating the what? The everything bagel ones. Everything bagel ones. Oh, I thought you eat the fire ones.

Uh that was the other day. Oh my god. You are eating way more than Are they under there? That's where the Chris Power is too. Yeah, we now have a little stash here inside the studio. Our staff just crushes. You guys see they're popping up all over the place, too. Chris Power. Chris Power. Chris Power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think I think Costco. Did I see Costco also? Costco also? Costco also? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I think look up I think I know uh they're also I think I'll tell you.

Let me tell you everybody why that that snack is going to just destroy. destroy. destroy. It's high protein high protein carb. Cool. Yes. It's high protein. Cool. It doesn't taste it tastes like a freaking tastes like pretzels like Yeah, dude. And they're flavored and it's just good. And that you know that you do that you're just going to crush it. They're absolutely crushing it already. And I think they're already in a bunch of major stores. I mean like literally from you didn't know about him what I don't know eight months ago.

No, never heard of him. Yeah. It was like so crazy you that who who connected us. You remember who connected us? connected us? connected us? Yes, dude. You don't remember? So you remember when we did Keto head, right? Yes. Yes. That was his old Instagram name was Keto Keto Head. Yeah. Remember we interviewed when we were at um what was that with Joe Dina? Um the race. Spartan race. This is like year year two or three. I want to say year two or three of us.

We met we met him at Spartan. We met we met him at Spartan. He remained a fan and a listener. Wow. Wow. Wow. And every once in a while he would he would comment DM and so I I knew he was a listener cuz he would comment on something that we were talking about with that. And so we'd we'd stay in touch over the years and uh he I I don't remember what I think he saw me like like one of their stuff and he's like hey uh I can send you send you a box with that.

And then he was one of he's he's one of the founders I believe behind it. Uh sent it over and I was like, "Dude, we got to go on the phone." Yeah, we got to go on the phone. I I really like these. these. these. Uh and that's how that happened. Well, the game with that, right, is you you make a snack, you get it everywhere, and then you sell to a big uh company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you get a big That's the whole Did you see where it's all at now?

Yeah. You can get at Costco. It is at Costco. Wow. It's already in Costco. Jeez. Costco. Jeez. Costco. Jeez. Wow. That's came over, dude. That's happening. That's That's awesome. That's super rad. Have you guys seen the Have you guys seen the list for Speaking of Dirty Secret, have you guys seen the list of the dirty dozen dozen dozen foods that are the highest in pesticides? Have you guys seen this before? before? before? I've seen that. No, I have not. So, So, So, can we guess fruit?

So, yeah. So, there's fruits and vegetables. Which ones are the highest? So, I'm going to go uh lettuce and berries. So, strawberries, lettuce. Oh, berries for sure. I'm going to throw in apples. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, apples. You guys are hitting for sure. So, spinach, strawberries. anything without a hard that was that was one of the best like takes I had someone like if you're not going to go organic right and start these are the on the ones go organic yeah these are the ones but you can also wash them you can also just wash them really well you'll get the best but spinach strawberries kale collarded mustard greens grapes peaches cherries nectarines pears apples blackberries blueberries and potatoes now how much potatoes potato sorry potato sorry potato sorry come on come on come on now how much have you gone I' I' I've gone a big, you know, talking about AI and what's real, what's not real.

It's like I don't know what to believe. Now, I've seen some interesting content on what a scam organic is. And that the in order to be called organic, the barrier is so low and they're even using things on it that are just as bad or arguably worse for you than the other crap. And so how much have you looked into that? And do you know like how valuable is it? And and you're talking about a I want to say regulations are regulations are regulations are I want to say the numbers like on average 40 40% higher prices on a lot of stuff stuff stuff they are.

So the so the best studies that I've seen are ones where they test uh the food or and or they test people's urine. This is where you'll see pesticide load. And there's actually there was actually a few studies where they took people and they had them only eat or so they tested their urine. They were eating conventional, then they had them not change their diet, switch to organic, uh, and then change their urine, and there was a remarkable different uh, difference. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Yes. So, it makes a difference. I'd still wash them, though. Still wash your stuff cuz even organic pesticides and stuff can actually sometimes show higher rates of heavy metals. metals. metals. That's what I said. That's what it was. It was Yeah. You have the So, it's like you're you're you're, you know, trading one thing off or trading one thing out, but then you're getting something else that's arguably just as bad or worse for you. you. you. Oh. And so, you know, is it worth the 40%.

I do want to be clear, though. We've said this since day one. You actually remove a decent amount if you wash them, especially you get a lot of it. Dude, this reminds me though, the food talk, Doug, if you could uh look this up. Uh apparently the grandson of the founder of like Reese's uh had just exposed I don't know again we have to fact check if this is real or not AI uh but that like some of the ingredients they had changed over as like not even you know natural or real ingredients.

ingredients. ingredients. I heard this. What do you mean? It's fake. It's fake. It's fake. Like yeah I don't know if it's the peanut butter or peanut butter. It's Yeah. It's not It's just manufactured. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the Oreo stuff. I told you it's like not nothing real about it, dude. Like it's not real. It's not real peanut butter and chocolate. Yeah. So, you're just eating like just plastic sugar. plastic sugar. plastic sugar. Brad Reese's grandson, creator of the Hershey, Hershey, Hershey, has accused the Hershey company of skimpflation by quietly replacing quality ingredients with cheaper alternatives.

alternatives. alternatives. In February 2026 LinkedIn letter, he alleged that real milk chocolate is being swapped being swapped being swapped for compound coatings and peanut butter for peanut butter style cre. Yeah. So, exactly what's happens. How many like how dude and you go through the like if that's one of the major companies doing this and of course profit margins play a huge factor into this and then they found cheap alternatives that taste like the food you were eating before but it's not really the food anymore. How many like items are out there that aren't even real?

real? real? I got to say this though, this is what they're probably doing. They're looking at their like like heavy users like their Reese's pieces heavy users. Yeah. And they're like um do you think they're not going to buy it if we swap out? Like nobody's going to care. Nobody's eating Reese's and going, "Oh, "Oh, "Oh, yeah. It's not like high consumption." Yeah. If you are, you got problems. You got diabetes and everything else. everything else. everything else. You're not the same. It's the same game that we saw in the toothpaste, shampoo, soap, and soap, and soap, and Well, that's different.

Those are products that are like advertising natural. natural. natural. No, no, no. Not that. That's not what I mean by that. But that they're also skimming. skimming. skimming. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You don't even know. Their price Their price went up 40 and they took 2 ounces out from you. You know what I'm saying? So you're like, "Oh, that's not bad. It's 40 cents more." That's normal inflation. You know what I'm saying? It's like, "No, they toilet paper did that." The most They did.

Toilet paper did it. Everybody did it. Toothpaste did it. Deodorant did it. Shampoo, everything that we use on a regular basis all did it. They made the Go back and look uh at your deodorant sticks. Go back and look at your toothpaste bottles. Go back and look at your shampoo bottles. They all skimmed ounces off and increase price simultaneously. All simultaneously. All simultaneously. All during Was that cotton ball? Was that just like part of, you know, when they put it in the bottle just to fill the space?

space? space? Oh, Oh, Oh, like a pill bottle? Yes. Yes. Yes. I think they do that so it doesn't rattle around. rattle around. rattle around. Yeah. So it doesn't become powder. I think that's [ __ ] I think that's literally just like give you less. I mean that's you don't buy cotton. cotton. cotton. What's a bigger scam are are chip bags. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Chip chip bags are are double the double the size. the size. the size. But you know they do that to protect the chips not getting crushed, right?

I know. You you don't need double the size. You can get away with a 20. You can use some cotton can use some You can use some cotton padding or something like that. Get away with a fraction of the price. You know what's the worst? The worst chips. chips. chips. That's just annoys me. The worst chips are uh what are they called? Uh Pringles. Pringles. Pringles. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They're not even sliced potato chips. They're like potato flakes and then they press them into the chip shape.

You know, it reminds me of like particle board. board. board. Yeah, exactly. Glue it together. Just smash it. It's all the crumbs left in everybody's bags. And then they just they just press them into these shapes. Some dude is going around the country and he's getting it cuz you no one ever throws a bag of chips out without crumbs at the bottom. Oh yeah. You got to eat them, dude. Warm in your face. That's me, dog. You know me and potato chips, bro. That's my favorite.

They can throw it away. Salty goodness. goodness. goodness. If you fry a potato, I will eat it. I don't care how you make it, whatever. If it's fried, it's done. Have you ever tried to make your own potato chips? potato chips? potato chips? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't know how I want to make curly. Yeah. I don't think it's like I don't I don't think making your own I don't think it's that difficult. How do you slice them? With a knife. Yeah, you can get a slicer, too.

They make slicers. make slicers. make slicers. Yeah. Throw them in hot oil. I mean, we watch I've always wanted to make I've always tried always wanted to try and make uh um In-N-Out French fries at home. at home. at home. You see them do the potato right there and then it just gets dropped into the deep fryer and then salt. I mean, it's potato. Is it Is it peanut oil to use? use? use? Well, peanut oil is that's Five Guys, which I actually prefer that. Five Guys got some.

got some. got some. You like Five Guys over In-N-Out fries? In-N-Out in my stomach. Here's the deal. In-N-Out fries. I could eat a lot of them and and not be like, "Uh, Five Guys fries are good." See what they're frying. See what In-N-Out is in Out Frying. That's real potatoes. You're like, "Oh, that's a lot of potatoes." I mean, if we're like, by the way, if you're like splitting hairs on what the, you know, where your potatoes get, you know, your French fries get fried, like it's it's it's this is that that's the lay Norton argument, which I I get that.

You know what I'm saying? It's like it's like the Reese's Peanut Butter. It's like if you're eating bags of Reese, but it doesn't really matter. It's fake. I started a diet. I'm angry about it. It's like my favorite candy, dude. They use sunflower oil. oil. oil. Sunflower oil. Sunflower oil. Sunflower oil. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also not good, right? Probably not good. No. Yeah. I mean, is there is any I mean, other I guess. Well, I mean, you know, McDonald's, I think, used to use beef tallow.

They used to until they got sued. I thought they brought it back. I don't think so. Wasn't that what RFK was all campaigning on? Bring back Br. That'll solve the OBC. OBC. OBC. Also, another great lady, but he lost. Didn't Trump pass something for Monsanto and like allowed now? Um Oh, they're not cutting it. They're not Yeah, they're not cutting the GL required for national security. Yeah, the Roundup and all that. It's like it's required for national security. security. security. So much food is is now dependent on using using using so that cut into the Yeah.

the inventory to maintain our obesity. Yeah. Are those the numbers that it uses? We're going to put America on the North Korean diet. I mean, you've seen the studies on like countries like North Korea, like the average person loses 15 pounds because they have no food. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't want to do that. No. I mean, a lot of us could afford to be on the show alone for a little while and see it be just all right, dude.

What if alone was a weight loss show? It becomes that I wonder how many people get on it with that. Bad strategy though because most some of these contestants can't even last a week out there. Dude, the vegans on the show sometimes sometimes I'll have a vegan on there. I'm like, do you know what you're saying? saying? saying? Have they made a vegan on there? Early days. I remember. Really? Really? Really? Yes. Early days. There was a couple. Are you sure? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. And then towards the end they actually like conceded and they ate. I think it was like a squirrel or something. Yeah. It was It was some kind of You can't You can't be a vegan and make that show. that show. that show. Right here. Right here. Let me see. Pull it. I saw one. While there has been not been confirmed strictly vegan, several contestants identified as vegetarian or near vegetarian. near vegetarian. near vegetarian. Vegetarian. I was going to say you're you become whatever when you get out there.

I mean, you're eating squirrels normally one of the first meals they end up getting. up getting. up getting. Dude, they signed this guy up like, you know, they were laughing like you guys, you know, we signed up. If they did, it was just for TV. I don't want to kill any animals, you know. It's the LA It's one of the last real reality shows. Is it real? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Has anybody died? So they have they have medical people that come out every so many weeks and they they have to go through a full testing and they actually will they many of them get kicked out because because because I saw an episode where the guy killed a caribou.

I don't know something like that big animal and he stored the fat cuz you need the fat. Yeah. And a wolverine got to it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And the poor guy all the time. Devastated. Devastated. Devastated. It's it's one of the most difficult parts is like you get a big game. So first of all Yeah. Where are you going to store it? The contestants that typically win are the ones that do get the big game, right? But they also are the ones that are able to save the fat and and keep it from the predators because all these little critters that get in and so they have to build these crazy you hang it dry it out or you smoke it or whatever it is like it's that's like a huge signal going out to like every animal that's like in vicinity.

Wasn't there one where they were like in an area with uh was it polar bears? No, grizzly bears. Polar bears. Grizzly bears. I don't know if they've done polar bears crazy. No, you can't do that. Polar bear will kill you. They'll actually hunt you'll actually hunt you. Definitely grizzly bears. so aggressive. aggressive. aggressive. Grizzly bears, moose, wolverines, uh, wolves, all of it. I saw this one guy, he was in one of those like observation. It was like a plexiglass observation like thing supposedly safe and a polar bear was like walked up, came up and was like, I was trying to get in and the guy's in there.

I'd be terrified. Like, man, if he figures this out, I'm dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What would be more terrifying? Polar bear trying to get into your plexiglass or a great white shark trying to get into your your cage? Oh, Oh, Oh, which one's more terrifying? Great white shark. cuz I can't swim. I agree. I think I I feel like the shark I feel like there's a a there's a I I think there's a slim chance I get away from the polar. There's no chance I'm swimming away from the shark.

Well, I don't know. I just feel like is that right? Don't you guys think that's it? That's the logic. Like you could just throw blast the shark and just hope for the best. You can't do anything to the freaking bear. A polar bear will eat you. It will maul you and just die. It actually doesn't kill you. It just starts eating you. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't kill you almost shark or polar bear. Definitely a shark is more scary for me.

I mean, that's scary, but So, you're the only You're the only shark. shark. shark. I I'll go shark, dude. There was just a video. There was just a video. Where was it? My odds are like slightly better. Where was it? It's It's around here, Justin, where there was a There was a a great white that was just swimming around. Oh, here. Around the marina. Well, just swimming around the marina. Here, there a few shark attacks. There's one recent one that uh was in He's just swimming around.

It was in Monterey or Carmel. Sure. You better don't check that. See if it's real. It's probably probably probably This lady was like, "Look at the comments." No, it's Marina, bro. This is real. Marina over where I used to live. San Francisco. Look, look, it's just swimming around. swimming around. swimming around. Oh, Marina that way. Okay. Oh, hell no. Uh, yeah. I mean, she's gone though. Like, like they like there's one lady that actually got eaten and she's gone. Eaten like fully eaten. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I thought even do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Depends how delicious you were. Justin would get eaten. Super like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. He tastes like Reese's peanut butter. It's like very infrequent. He's the white he's the white you mean like mean like mean like this is like Reese's peanut butter cup. Damn the marbling. This is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey Fred, come over here. If you catch me at the right time but he's not afraid of us. Get him. Yeah. Red light therapy has been shown in studies, lots of studies, improve recovery, make your skin healthier and younger.

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Go to jve.com. That's jovv.com/mindpump. That's jovv.com/mindpump. That's jovv.com/mindpump. The code is mindpump for the $50 off. Back to the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by Mindpump Fitness Coaching. This is the number one course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build sustainable sixf figureure plus businesses and careers in fitness. Look, it's round table based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers.

By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification. Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. Our first caller is Veronica from Virginia. Yeah. Virginia. Yeah. Virginia. Yeah. Hi, Veronica. Hi, Veronica. Hi, Veronica. How you doing, Veronica? Hello. Hello. Hello. Hi. How are you? I'm honored to be here. Yeah. How can we help you? I'm going to dive in. Okay. So, I'm a 56-year-old female who's been lifting since the age of 17. After having two children in my early 30s, I began lifting regularly at age 39.

At age 49, I did my first figure show. At age 53 during my fifth show, I won my natural pro card. pro card. pro card. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. During my years of competing, I earned a certification for nutrition uh coaching. That being relevant, and that I think I approach food restriction with every competition with a good mindset, understanding that competition uh competing is choice and a and privilege, not a sacrifice. I love the challenge of prep and seeing how it changes the composition of my physique much more so than the competition itself.

I continue to think about doing another show, potentially doing them as long as possible since now that I'm older, I hope to continue inspiring other women to lift weights. I currently lift daily, approximately 60 minutes. It's part of my routine that makes me happy. I miss it if I don't go, but I don't stress if life gets in the way. I just view it as an unavoidable break. Over the past year, I've gotten bored with generic lifting and have recently been exposed to powerlifting. Listening to your podcast regularly, I'm now at the point where I'd like to carve out a six to 8 week period and focus solely on everything your group discusses, strength, flexibility, power, etc., while still building a symmetrical physique for the stage.

I've never followed a purchase program. I've always taught myself and created my own splits. So my question, can you recommend the best mind pump program I should be using to take me to the next level, potentially gearing up to enter another cut for another show with a more athletic physique. athletic physique. athletic physique. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a few ideas Yeah. I got a few ideas around this, by the way. Great job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good job. And you look super vibrant and healthy.

So this is Yeah, this is great. I feel good. And I'll add to that that I'm proud to be 56 and I I feel like I'm 30. Yeah. I feel like I'm younger than 30 because I didn't feel 30. Yeah. Well, you you look really vibrant and healthy. You know what I love about uh people who are doing it right uh with fitness is uh they love to tell their age age age uh because you just feel so good. You know, a lot of times women are like, I don't want to tell you how old I am, but uh I love that fitness people are the first thing out of their mouth is like, hey, guess what?

you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's awesome. Okay. So, I have a few ideas around this. Um, now because you want to compete and there's an aesthetic component. Um, I have one idea for a program, but then I have another program that's more unconventional unconventional unconventional uh that you might find a lot that that's going to be fun for you and that's going to train you a little differently. Okay. Either one I think you would enjoy. Uh, when is your next competition? I think that'll help me.

So, you know, I don't have anything specific in mind. My oldest son has his natural pro card, too. And we've never done a show together. We've talked about it, but I just I we we've batted around the end of the summer. summer. summer. Okay. Oh, so end of this summer. I'm I'm flexible. I mean, I' I've learned the long way that just because you think you're ready doesn't mean necessarily mean that you're ready. That's a good answer. That's a good answer. Yeah, I have I have all the time in the world.

world. world. Okay. Well, so I have a program called MAPS strong. It's going to be very different from what you're used to. Um, and I think you would have a lot of fun training with it. A lot of posterior chain focus. So, you know, as far as development's concerned, development's concerned, development's concerned, you're going to see a lot of back, shoulders, and glutes from that program. Um, but it's not a, you know, you know, bodybuilding physique, you know, stage presentation type of program. Uh it's it's it's there's a more of an athletic component.

There's some stamina involved. Uh but it's still a strength program. On the other hand, I have something called map symmetry, which is going to be it's going to have the aesthetic component you're looking for. And it's it's probably different from what you're used to because the first uh few phases or couple phases is like all unilateral training. It's all uh one side and then train the other in different uh forms and varieties. And if you've never done long blocks of that, uh you'll definitely see some nice balance and symmetry uh coming out of that.

So you'll you'll you'll identify weaknesses from right to left and then you'll get some balance out of it. And it's more uh bodybuilding than map strong. So it just depends on which one appeals to you more. I say I I I'll tell you I prefer strong and I'll tell you why. Um have how much of my uh competing journey have you heard me talk about on the show? Have you heard much me have you heard me talk about it much? I I have heard you talk about it.

I know you guys about it. I know you guys have mixed feelings about it. That's why I did want to put out there that that I kind of I think I view it with a good mindset. mindset. mindset. Oh, I think you do, too. I think you're an excellent uh I know we we deter a lot of people from competing. I think you have a very healthy mindset and balance around it and I think you look great and I think that's why you look great is because you have a good relationship with it.

So, I think you're would be a blast to train through this. Um, what I wanted to share with you was my most of my lifting career I trained even though I wasn't a bodybuilder. I trained that way. Did my own splits programmed like that. One of the best packages or physiques I brought to stage was when I on the off season trained like a powerlter like completely let go of my kind of bodybuilding focus split. And yet, even though it's not a quote unquote bodybuilding program, I got the greatest gains in muscle I'd ever seen on on my back and my legs and my should it was just it was incredible.

And so, uh, even though MAPS quote strong is not quote unquote a bodybuilder program, I think lifting that way in the offseason in a calorie surplus will bring you the best physique you've yet brought to stage. Now, it's it's not even a powerlifting program, but so some of the lifts you might not even be familiar with. Uh, but it is a strength program. So, the goal really it's it's it's it's trained uh it's designed in a way for somebody who competes in strongman competitions. So, the lifts so the lifts are kind of around that and there is an athletic component, but I can guarantee there's going to be quite a few lifts and and exercise in there that you probably either haven't done or haven't programmed.

But bodywise, it's a lot of posterior chain and shoulders, a lot of back, glutes, and delts is what you'll get. get. get. It'll be it'll be an awesome program. And and you know, remember too, like you what you bring to stage is done in the off season. Like uh you already have a great muscle balance. Like you could probably diet right now and get ready and and present yourself again on on stage and look great again. what will really change or bring a better version of your physique is to do something that you don't normally do to add muscle in places that you've never added muscle before.

And so doing something like a MAP strong I think will will will bring something unique and different that I think you'll really really like. Uh it was one of the best things that I ever did in my bodybuilding career was to kind of focus over on the powerlifting and the strong type of training which was so unique to me and so not focused bodybuilder and yet here I then I bring the best version of my body to stage and I think because you're such an experienced lifter and competitor I think you'll get similar benefits by focusing that way.

So, I would do strong. I would do it in a calorie surplus to to build. And then after you get get done with strong, then where you're at from there, then you plan your show. Like, okay, now I'm going to go back to like a split or go to a MAPS aesthetic type of program and then start my my diet heading into the stage. For for sure, it'll be fun. If you're getting, you know, if you've been doing traditional strength training, you know, kind of bodybuilding style, powerlifting style for a while, uh, it'll be and you're like, I want to try something different, you'll find it fun.

It'll be enjoyable. enjoyable. enjoyable. It It sounds fun. I think that that's exactly I'm surprised that you guys are suggesting something that is exciting. Me. Me. Me. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Cool. I unsure about all the programs and I probably never I never would have went for that one. Okay, cool. It's one of our most popular programs, especially with women uh who have uh strength training background. They always report back and they go, "Oh, this is one this is my favorite program." program." program." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, great. Oh, great. Oh, great. Yeah. You're going to love the results from it. We'll send that we'll send that over over to you. And it's uh it's 12 weeks, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. 12 weeks. So, runs trust the process to remind you that trust the process. Run it because that's the one thing, you know, when you got a trainer brain, you get in your own way and you start, oh, let me change this or add that. Yeah. have have faith in us uh that that we got you and you'll be very happy.

And you you know you you you you know this already but just going to confer like when you do new movements, new exercises or or exercises in new ways, start start light, go easy and learn them before you push it because there going to be a lot of new stuff that you probably haven't done. Yeah, the work capacity days you might want to, you know, gauge based on like how you recover from that as well. So that that's something that's a little more different and intense, but it's it's also a lot of fun.

So yeah. Yeah, you know, I think you know what you're doing. So, it'll be cool. I'd love to have you back on just afterwards to get get your review. That would be great. And you know what? I'm I'm too old to be hurting myself, so I do always go into things until I learn the movements. So, that sounds that sounds fantastic. Thank you. You got it. We'll send it over to you. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love it.

She's got a great attitude. Uh this is one of the examples I give uh when I talk about how being fit um and you know prioritizing health and fitness how much you diverge from people in your age group as you continue to age. I mean she's still she's not old but she's at the age now where you know what is she 54 she said you put her next to a group of typical 54 year old women and it's like her peers. Yeah. I also want to highlight she didn't start until she was 40.

Yeah. So you know that that she 39 years old just turning 40 when she started lifting weights. lifting weights. lifting weights. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how much you can do later in your life too. So many people think you're at an age it's like oh and you know so she's 54 years old and I'm pretty sure she'd say I'm in the best shape of my life life life at 54 which is pretty rad. Yeah. And I mean even one thing I notic her her hair looks so healthy and this is it like good nutrition, good exercise.

It's just it's far beyond just muscle and body fat. It affects the whole body. Our next caller is Sam from Kentucky. Kentucky. Kentucky. What's up, Sam? Hey guys, how's it going? Uh, good, good. I just wanted to say thank you to you guys. Um, found you guys about 6 months ago. I listen to every episode now. Um, you know, I was on a call with this is more of a a follow-up call. I was on a call with you a couple months ago. You coached me towards running maps powerlift 15, and honestly, it's been incredible.

Um, so for context, I've been on Tzepide since last summer. I'm currently down from 340 lb to 270 lb. Um, currently around 35ish% body fat. Um, I attach a before and current picture for you guys. Um, one of the biggest breakthroughs is you guys coached me towards increasing my calories. I was at about 2,200 and you said get it over 2500 and I've been losing weight at really the same rate. Um Um Um hell yeah. hell yeah. hell yeah. And even from 340 to 270 I've actually gained um lean body mass in that time.

So So So hell yeah. hell yeah. hell yeah. If I recall when we had you on uh you were you're we told you to reduce your volume and bump your calories cuz it kind kind of had gotten to a place where you're a bit what we thought would like overtrained a little burnt out and you weren't getting the the results. So, since doing powerlift 15 and bumping your calories, you've gained muscle, gotten stronger, I'm assuming. Yeah. So, I like I do barbell bench or dumbbell benching instead of regular benching just cuz I'm scared I'm going to fail and I don't have a spotter at the gym and like I'm I'm one of those guys who like likes to push my limits and get as close to failure as possible.

So, my dumbbell bench has gone from 90 lbs in each hand to 110 in each hand. Wow. Yeah, bro. Yeah, bro. Yeah, bro. Sick. Sick. Sick. That's great, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and right now I'm I'm on the overhead press part of it, but my squat got a lot stronger in uh in the second month as well. So, um, it's definitely been it was an adjustment at first because like I used to play football and so for me like I just like to lift and so for me to like drastically decrease my volume almost had to like reset my brain that I would actually uh I would actually get stronger with that much volume.

Y kudos to you. That's really hard especially for exathletes. That's really hard to do that. they, you know, you you want to revert back to the old old football days every time you're in the gym and it's tough, too. So, the fact that you listened and followed the advice, I'm so glad you did because I I'm sure now now you're sold, right? It's like you feel it, you see it. What What's What are your steps at every day? Are you Are you tracking that? Yeah, about 7,000 to 9,000 a day.

You know, I'm in Kentucky. Once it gets a little warmer, it'll get even higher because I can take walks outside. Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. You're in a good place. You're in a good place. You're in a nice sweet spot there. there. there. So, is your question what's your question? Do you keep going? Do you cut? Do you go reverse? Is that what you're asking? asking? asking? Yeah. Essentially, like I want to get to probably 15 to 20% body fat. My guess is I'll be between like 210 and 220.

So, like do I go all the way down there or do I like before I get there reverse? And then cuz when I get there, I want to start like doing more bulking and cutting cycles to start really building muscle. You're right. If you're at 270 now and you want to drop another 60 lb or so, uh, and you're at 2500 calories now with MAP's power lift 15, we want to continue to reverse diet. So, what the reason why I asked you about your steps is I think it would be very wise to go up another two to 300 calories, continue training the way you're training, and then maybe bump your steps a little bit.

Maybe instead of going 7 to 9, try to be around, you know, 9 to 10 uh, consistently. Um, and then keep going on that path until you get to a pretty high calorie place where you're like, "Wow, I'm eating a lot of food." And then you can cut from there. That'll give us a lot of runway to get you down to 210. Cuz if you cut right now at at 270, uh, I mean, I could cut you down to 2,000 calories. No, but then you're going to hit a plateau.

You're a big guy. You're you're about where I would You're There's two things I if I was coaching you and we would go like week by week is like how you're feeling cuz I actually think you're in a very nice sweet spot. You're probably in a place where you don't feel like you're starving eating and stuff like that. So, you probably feel satisfied. You're eating low enough calorie to where you're having this kind of beautiful exchange where you're still leaning out. You're even building muscle sometimes.

You can kind of hang out there so long as that kind of keeps happening, but you might plateau sooner or later. And then when you do, then what S is saying is that instead of what most people would do, which is cut when you hit a plateau, I'd actually reverse you. I go, "Okay, let's let's keep pushing strength. let's add a couple hundred calories and see if we can actually build some more muscle and get you up to closer to like 3,000 calories and then hang at 3,000 calories for a little while trying to build strength and then go do a cut down to 25 and then watch you lean out again.

So, that would be probably uh the advice from where you're at right now. But, if you're if you're continuing to see strength gains, you're leaning out and and also seeing some muscle being built a little bit, you're kind of in the Goldilock zone. And so I'd kind of hang there for as as long as you can. Uh if as long as you feel like you're you're kind of every two weeks you feel like, "Yeah, I'm definitely progressing. I feel better. I look better than what I did two weeks ago." Just give yourself like two weeks.

Like I don't think every week is a bit I think it's a little bit too obsessed. Like did I make progress this week? It's like stay the course. And if every two weeks you look back and go like I'm I'm better version of me than I was two weeks ago. I I ride that. I keep riding that uh for as long as we can before I start to really adjust anything. And then that what would be good to do then is maybe we switch the program simultaneously.

So you have like go go to another maps 15 program maybe go to like the strong or something else. Um maybe even anabolic by that time cuz he you'll be reverse you'll be eating enough calories you could probably handle MAPS anabolic. So, a good like when it if when we go to bump more calories and we're talking now we're talking 2800 calories or so or more, we could probably go to MAPS anabolic anabolic anabolic and that different program change a little more added volume with the extra calories.

I think you'll see yourself build some muscle off of that. But again, hang tight while you're seeing great results right now. I think you're in a good spot. Okay. Yeah, cuz that was sort of what where I was getting at next is like at what point can I bump up the volume? I know while I'm cutting that's tough to do, but I I eventually want to get to a place where like my body fat's in a good place and then I want to just build as much muscle as I possibly can.

You're on your way, dude. You're doing it. You're doing it because you're on your way. Yeah, you're doing it right now. You really are. You're in this You're in that what we call goalie locks. You're building a little muscle, burn a little body fat, this nice place. Um when we we don't want to ramp the volume up or go to an anabolic until you're eating at least 2,800 calories. 20. I want I'd want you 2,800 or more calories before we start adding more. Right now, you're at a nice amount of volume for the amount of calories.

You're doing great with the steps. I'm with S. When it gets a little bit nicer weather, start to pick them steps up and try and, you know, get up over 10,000 steps with what you're doing. That'll keep you leaning out just by you kind of increasing activity with what you're doing. And then eventually we'll bump the calories and go to like MAPS. Do you have MAPSolic? MAPSolic? MAPSolic? No. No. No. We'll send that over to you. So, you have that. So, that's the that's the move, right?

ride this wave until you start to slow down, bump the calories, and then go to anabolic. Okay, that's awesome. Thank you guys. Yeah, you got it, man. And keep us posted here. It's a It's a fun journey to watch for us, man. man. man. Yeah, thank you guys. Yeah, definitely. Will Will Will kicking ass, dude. Take it easy. Congrats, brother. Congrats, brother. Congrats, brother. Keep it up. Thanks. Just for to recap, uh he increased his calories by a relatively significant amount amount amount and dropped the amount of training volume.

volume. volume. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And built muscle, got stronger, and got leaner. leaner. leaner. God, another one of those. Just so people understand, that just doesn't science science. Yeah. Come on, science nerds. Where you at? Yeah. Yeah. So, I just It just It works, you guys. It works. You got to try it. It works. And you know, watch what happens. And by the way, people on GLP because he's on a GLP1, people on GLP-1s will plateau. Uh we This is what happens. They'll lose X amount and they'll plateau.

The most common thing we saw and then it's like I get God, do I just eat even less and then you feel terrible and it's like no, no, reverse dieting is real. If you do it right, you apply it with strength training, it gets things moving in the right direction. Our next caller is Karen from New York. Hi Karen, Hi Karen, Hi Karen, how you doing Karen? Hi. How are you? Good. Good. Good. We're good. How can we help you? Yes. Um I had sent in an email.

I've been watching your content now for a few months and um one of the things I will I will be 60 in a few months and uh I now want to focus on gaining strength um working on my mobility, maintaining balance, uh being able to maintain balance. Um balance. Um balance. Um all right. And so right now, for the first time in my adult life ever, I'm down to an ideal body weight, but I'd like to reduce the body fat percentage a little bit and gain some muscle.

I'm not so no longer chasing the scale, right? So So So wonderful. Um, now we're at a point where, um, I want to refocus on some other things, which I've done over the years many, many times, but I want to hone in now with some of the conditions as I'm getting older and do it safely, right, and not Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. not get hurt. Yeah, that's great. Karen, have you ever done traditional strength training before? training before? training before? Yes. Um, 10 years ago, I went back to school after uh losing about 127 pounds.

So, I do have my personal training certification and associates and exercise science. Um, but unfortunately over that time and with COVID setting in and getting older and menopause and thyroid disease and such like that, I was never able to keep my weight down. But I always love being in the gym and so I do have knowledge behind it. But again, there's so much information out there and with my particular situation of having a thyroid disorder and um also having had buriatric surgery and I'm on a GLP1 now, it's like I need to hone in.

It needs to be honed to get the most bang for my buck, right? And the most beneficial at this time in my life to I totally get that. What what's the long So, by the way, your your your thyroid is now being treated uh with medication. So, that's all balanced. Hormones balanced. I see in your emails. Yeah, HRT is great. you know, all those things are like really dialed in now. Um, I have no more metabolic resistance. I have or dysfunction. I'm not insulin resistant any longer.

Awesome. Have you ever worked with a like a trainer or coach for the strength training? Have you ever had anybody train you through that period of time or were you kind of doing it on your own? I did. I did years and years ago. Um after my first husband had passed away, I decided to get focused and I was training with someone for about a year and um it was a great experience and I enjoyed that very much and um then I was in the gym and just but no recently I have not worked with a trainer recently.

the the the the best thing you can do and what you're you're going to love how traditional strength training done properly, good programming with making sure of course you eat enough protein, all that stuff, how that's going to affect your body, the lean body mass gains, what you mentioned with mobility and balance. uh it's going to feel so incredible, but it's going to come from really traditional strength training and it's probably going to look something like two or three days a week. Now, that doesn't mean you're not active the other days.

Uh so, you know, walking and just, you know, you don't want to sit around, which I'm assuming you already have some activity and you're you're tracking steps and stuff like that, but nice traditional strength training where which is appropriate. So, we got to make sure we do the right exercises for you where you're seeing yourself gain strength. If you're getting stronger, you're that you're definitely moving in the right direction and it's going to feel so uh good on your body from your metabolic health to how your body actually feels, mobility, all those things.

That's the that's like the one and I think you know that that's like the one piece uh that you you're you're you're aiming for, which is great. She's you see her she uh Doug just pulled up her numbers right here. You see she's deadlifting. You got assisted chin up. You got lap, pull down, row. Are those are those your lifts? And and you're getting between 15 to,900, 1900 calories is good. You're You're doing pretty damn good right now. Yeah. Are you Are those Are those your current lifts, Karen, that you you sent us, or was that like what you've done in the past?

the past? the past? No, no, no. Those are current. My Actually, my deadlift now I'm at like 115. 115. 115. Nice. Nice. Nice. Got a girl. And um And um And um yeah, the other ones are pretty They're pretty They're recent. They're recent numbers. My deadlift just went up a little bit. little bit. little bit. That's great. Okay, so how can we help you? Are you looking for more like programming advice or nutrition advice? Yeah. Um, well, actually both. I'm looking for some programming advice because honestly, after I met my second husband, we've been married for six years and I now commute to work.

It's it's different. When I was widowed for 14 years, I came and went in the gym and did what I wanted as I wanted. I ate when I wanted, didn't eat when I didn't want to. whatever it was, the responsibilities and my lifestyle is a little different now. So, what I'm hoping to do is to I need some programming that I can get in the gym two days a week and do it also once at home home home with with other, you know, some other form formatting.

And um yeah, that's what I'm looking for. And then also with having had the beriatric surgery and being on a GLP1, I mean, I got to I got to fight to get 15, you know, 140 150 grams. Yeah. grams. Yeah. grams. Yeah. So, I did have a question um if incorporating like one good dose of an EAA by itself once in a day could help to supplement that. Um because it it is hard for me to get, you know, I'm constantly, it's almost like years ago when I had issues of not being able to keep my weight down and food was like food food thought thought con, you know, I don't want to be in that realm either all the time.

I would actually EAS I would do three times a day. Um so that which is great. So it's great you're already on that thinking that way. Um are you doing a shake already? Yeah, I usually end up um doing a protein latte on my way in in the work in the morning. I make it myself. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. So that's that's hitting like 40 grams of protein just drinking on the way in. And then I'll get to work and I'll do um I'll either bring with me some eggs and ground beef and some cheese and I'll hit that.

I try to hit like 70 to 90 grams before lunchtime only because the remaining day is hard for me. Good job. No, you're doing you're doing good. You're doing great. Would you be open to working with one of our coaches through this process because I think that you you're in a really good place to have somebody uh work with you and iterate as you go along. Uh change the programming nutrition as you go along. Yeah, I'd like to look into that because I would I have one of the um you know eight electrical bio impedance scales that you know so I'm looking at other numbers besides just hopping on the scale.

No, you're doing really good and based off of like your schedule and how we do two days in the gym, one day at home. You'd be a great candidate for a trainer just kind of be modifying you kind of week to week as you're going and slowly me messing with your macros and and and advising you because you're in a good spot. You're doing a really good job right now and you're and you're heading down the right path. So, we could have someone call you, show you what that would look like, and they'll set up all the programming, take care of all the stuff for you.

for you. for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be that. I would like to I'd love to look into that. Yeah, that would be great. All right, K. I'll have somebody call you today. you today. you today. Doing a great job. Yeah. Great job, by the way. Yes. Very cool. That momentum. That momentum. That momentum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. All right. Well, I appreciate you taking my call and looking into this. I know you're going to be finding more and more people I think as time is going by GLP1s or having had surgery and there's a lot of information out there.

We just got off another call. Just we got done helping somebody who's been on one for a year and he had hit a plateau. He was a follow-up call who just got back on and he's added all kinds of muscle and leaned out by reverse dieting with us and so yeah. No, there it's there's a lot now. So you're doing great though. Excited to help you out. Okay. Yeah, I look forward to it. And out of your um programming, your maps programming and different things that what would you recommend?

Well, so off the top of my head, it would probably be something like maps anabolic, but when since you're going to work with a coach, they're going to individualize it. Yeah, they're going to individualize it for you because of like how your schedule is. So, it'll look like it actually look like a modified program. It'll look like anabolic mixed with something that you do at home. And then as you go along uh through coaching you, they'll be able to modify it as you go along because you're going to have that coach with you the whole time.

Okay, that's great. I look forward to the call. All right, Karen. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Well, good for her. She's doing really good. Yeah, good for her. Very surprised with a GLP1 she's able to still eat that much protein. That's protein. That's protein. That's I wonder. I wonder. I wonder. I didn't even think of that, but I wonder how many beriatric patients also now are using a GLP-1 on top of it. I wonder I bet it's I mean, what was the statistics? Do you remember what it was?

Taking business. What was the statistics on beriatric patients that end up end up just like going end up going putting the weight back on still? I don't know what the number is, but some of them do that. It's also a very I mean uh intrusive procedure uh I I think the beriatric surgery uh numbers has dropped considerably since GLP1's. GLP1's. GLP1's. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, cuz it's like try this instead of Yeah. Weighing the options out going in the open. Oh, it's it's probably crashed that. I'm sure she did that a long time ago and then now is and then one's probably helped her way more than that ever helped her.

But man, kudos to her to be deadlifting, going after her protein like that to be able to uh be able to eat eating 15 to 1900 calories on a jailbell and with beriatric surgery is impressive. So her whole strategy was on point. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. I'm excited. I hope she I I hope she ends up with one of our trainers so we can see her progress through this. through this. through this. Our next caller is Daniel from North Carolina. Carolina. Carolina. What's up, man? How you doing, Daniel?

What's happening, Daniel? Hey, how's it going, guys? Pretty cool to talk to you. I've been uh listening for about three years. Um, but I'm one of those weirdos that when I discovered Mind Pump, I actually started all the way back at the beginning. Listen through an order an average of like three to five episodes a day. So, I feel like I know you guys already. I'm still not even caught up. Um, but you know, once I feel once I get caught up, I feel like, you know, it'll be uh kind of sad cuz I won't have three to five to listen to every day.

But, have you gotten to Justin? Not not yet. Did you get the It was really brief. Like episode 10,000. Yeah, I'm I'm some I'm somewhere around like 2100 something like that. So, I don't even know what you guys are talking about in the last few episodes. That's right. When Doug, I remember that. I remember that first time. How can we help you, man? You need to remember. remember. remember. Okay. So, yeah. So, um so I'm 30 years old. I've been training consistently for about six years now.

Um I was overweight most of my life. Um, and actually I'm one of those guys that the pandemic was one of the best things that ever happened to my fitness. Um, I've been able to fall in love with fitness. Um, with my fitness journey, I've maintained a healthy fitness level the past several years. Um, so when I originally emailed, I had my first child on the way, but I have since become a dad in the last month. She's 3 weeks old as of yesterday. So, yesterday.

So, yesterday. So, all right. all right. all right. Um, but, uh, so I, um, I own and operate a landscaping company. So, in I'm in the offseason now. My schedule's a lot more open. I'm a lot more sedentary, but during the season from about March to October, I'm incredibly active. Some days 30 to 35,000 steps. Um, but on average close to about 20,000. Um, but with a baby on the way, I decided to go all out on my training and nutrition. I was pretty neurotic with both of them for about a month and a half at the start of the year before my daughter came along.

Um long term I really want to get in the best shape of my life just to see what I can do. And of course also set an impossible standard for my daughter for any future boyfriends, husbands, that kind of thing, of course. Um but um but I'm also noticing some left to right imbalances in my physique and in my movements um that I'm sure need to be addressed. I'm actually currently running map symmetry. Um I actually just finished a phase three workout right before I jumped on this call.

Um and I previously run anabolic performance aesthetic and I started split. Um, and the volume was fine, but I noticed that once I really got going, that's when I could tell I had the imbalances. So, I actually stopped it and jumped over to symmetry. Good job. Good job. Good job. Um, and I've been strongly considering something like MAP strong because I've actually never in my life focused on 100% strength focused. Um, because, you know, I was always the overweight guy and it sounds like it'd be great.

Um, but I mo I mostly, especially with a newborn, I work out from my home gym. Um, so I'm not sure if that program's feasible with my current equipment. But also with a newborn being around, um, you know how it is like sometimes pretty sleepd deprived, but I've actually we've come into a pretty good rhythm. So I've got kind of this rule for myself. I get seven, eight hours of sleep, then I'll train pretty hard. Um, but um, uh, let's see. So um, one of the things I would like to do um, if my sleep stays on is, you know, uh, finish symmetry, anabolic advance, maybe split.

Um, but I was kind of curious what you guys think would be a good um a good way to go with a newborn, but also trying to want to be feel like I should probably go strength focused because it's never been something that I've really focused on. My nutrition was very dial, but when my daughter was born, the people in our church, I'm very grateful they brought us a bunch of food and stuff. Um, we didn't really have a whole lot of time to cook. So, my nutrition kind of went out the window the first three weeks of my daughter's life.

So, um, I'm trying to figure out how to get my nutrition back on track with very little time to meal prep. Um, and then also I know I've got conflicting goals. I've got a newborn. I want to be in the best shape of my life. I want to focus on strength, but you know, I know that you guys say you can't always have your cake and eat it, too. So, I'm just kind of just kind of curious. I don't really know which way to go from here.

I got a lot of moving parts to think about. Yeah. So, if your sleep is good, uh, it's perfectly fine to focus on strength. Uh, and the the program that would be strength focused purely would be powerlift. be powerlift. be powerlift. So, strong is strong man inspired. So, what you're going to get in strong is strength focus, strength focus, strength focus, but you're also going to get some stamina and agility in there a little bit because strongman competitions require some of that. It's actually one of my favorite programs.

By the way, you could totally follow it with a home gym. I I have a curveball 15 version though. I have a curveball. I like maps 15 powerlift for you. Take the extra time that you're not having to be working out for a full hour, hour and a half. prep your meals and that's what's going to keep you dialed. You're gonna get strong doing MAP 15 powerlift. Real strong. Real strong. Real strong. You'll get real strong doing that and your nutrition becomes the next most important thing making sure you're staying dialed and dedicate that extra time because you're not spending an hour in the gym working out.

Now you're only spending about 20 minutes or so, maybe 25. Uh spend that extra 20 minutes getting those those meals prepped and really and getting making sure you're dialed on the nutrition part. And uh and that also saves you too because you know the inevitable is going to happen as a dad. You're gonna have some rougher nights in sleep. That's a more appropriate amount of volume uh trying to consider that. And so I I like that. And hey, if you have days where you get great rest, food's all prepped, you train, and you want to do more, go for a walk, walk, walk, you know, move move or do mobility, do some other type of activity, but that amount of that volume focused on strength, eating well, I I think would serve you best.

Great suggestion for sure. Yeah, that's perfect. Totally agree. Okay. And I was so and I mean that's awesome. Um and like I said I'm I'm catching up on episodes. So I I'd heard that you had some like 15 versions of a lot of your other programs. So I wasn't sure what you had yet. Um before my daughter was born I was so my maintenance calories is around 3,000ish. Um I'm 5'9 about 175 and 15 to 16% body fat. I was running right before she was born.

I was running right around um I was doing symmetry running right around maintenance with maybe just a slight um just a slight deficit cuz I would really still like to lean out. Um but I didn't want to go too hard and um um part of me was feeling like you uh if I run the strength program or the powerlift program. Um I don't know if I should try to push calories. Um I haven't really counted the last um the last three weeks since she's been born.

I don't know if you'd suggest pushing calories. I don't think so. So, I think if your calories, if you keep them consistent, the reduction in volume should take care of that. Now, you could bump the calories and and make it happen a little faster, but I don't think you need to bump much. You can go up a couple hundred calories. hundred calories. hundred calories. You're in a good place. 3 3,000, you know, your your size is a good amount of calories, so you're you're in a good place.

place. place. Yeah. So, you could go up 100 or 200 calories or keep it the same. But mass 15 powerlift, the reduced volume, I think we'll handle that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's awesome. And then, um, one more one more question I had in there. So, um, obviously my wife is postpartum right now, and she and she she came to me. I want to preface this with this. She came to me and said that once she was done and recovered and cleared by the doctor, she wanted me to help get her back.

I'm obviously not a personal trainer, but I've learned a lot from you guys listened to over 2,000 episodes. Um, so just if I if you guys have just some basic guidelines, um, ways to handle certain things, bringing her back from postpartum. Map starter. Yeah, that's the program. Nothing more than that. Nothing more than that. Map starter and that's it. And be very kind. give your wife a lot of grace of grace of grace and help her give grace to herself because she might get frustrated uh with the whole process, but that's the perfect program postpartum.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Okay, sounds good. I appreciate it. Um just one more thing, I appreciate all that you guys do. It's been super life-changing um for me. Um S, I love what you're doing with Call to His Kingdom. That's been a really cool thing to follow um on the regular basis. Um, I'm actually I I sent you a message a few weeks ago. Um, a prayer request for my daughter and I appreciate you responding. That really meant a lot. Um, and uh, but yeah, just keep everything up that you're doing.

I love it. And by the way, S, if you're looking for some uh, Christianbased uh, heavier workout music, I don't know if you've ever tried Skillet before, but you should check out Skillet. They got some good stuff. Justin recommend Justin recommend Justin recommend Yeah. Skillet. Skillet's my go-to. Um, they they were actually here in town where I'm at a few months ago, so real good stuff. good stuff. good stuff. Awesome. I appreciate it. Thanks, man. Thank you, bro. Yeah. So much. Thank you guys. You got it, brother.

That's great. That's great. That's great. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's great. I think he was still his pre-workout was still in his system when he was on fire. He's on fire. He just got lifted caffeine. No, I mean, great suggestion, Adam. I mean, he wouldn't even I don't even think he needed to bump calories because of the reduced volume. He's in a good He's in a perfect place. Yeah, dude. He's doing a good job, man. That's so awesome. 3,000 calories. 3,000 calories. 3,000 calories. He does. Listen, that's for sure.

Yeah, I I definitely think that uh yeah, I think I think it's a safer bet. I mean, he could do more, but you know, you got a 3-week but you know, you got a 3-week old, you know, I remember how cocky I was the first 10 days. Remember? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's easy, guys. When when they when it's hard when they just are bored, bro, they still think they're in the womb. They just sleep for like the first week. You know what I'm saying? And then and then they wake up.

You know what I'm saying? Like, so he's still got that coming. So, uh yeah, I think Mass 15 Protocol is better protocol. protocol. protocol. Love it. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Walking. It's one of the best things you could do for your health, bar none. But there's a better way to approach it. Yes, you can just walk, but if you follow the right protocol, it's far more effective. Let's talk about walking. I can't wait to hear your walking protocol.

walking protocol. walking protocol. Well, there is. Well, there is a protocol. So, and I'll start with the first thing, right? Cuz just first off, uh let me start with this. One of the reasons why walking um is such a great form of just activity is because it's low risk of injury.