How You Can Train Your Brain To Be Motivated | Dr. Andrew Huberman

How can people think about the best way How can people think about the best way they can learn? What are different they can learn? What are different they can learn? What are different styles? What are different methods? styles? What are different methods? styles? What are different methods? >> Terrific question. Unfortunately, >> Terrific question. Unfortunately, >> Terrific question. Unfortunately, nowadays we can look to studies done in nowadays we can look to studies done in nowadays we can look to studies done in humans that define some very key humans that define some very key humans that define some very key principles. The first principle is that principles. The first principle is that principles. The first principle is that the whole process of neuroplasticity and the whole process of neuroplasticity and the whole process of neuroplasticity and learning is really a two-stage process. learning is really a two-stage process. learning is really a two-stage process. First, there must be focus and First, there must be focus and First, there must be focus and alertness. alertness. alertness. That focus and alertness is associated That focus and alertness is associated That focus and alertness is associated with the release of neurochemicals, with the release of neurochemicals, with the release of neurochemicals, so-called neuromodulators, things like so-called neuromodulators, things like so-called neuromodulators, things like acetylcholine in particular, and which acetylcholine in particular, and which acetylcholine in particular, and which sort of acts as a highlighter pen, if sort of acts as a highlighter pen, if sort of acts as a highlighter pen, if you will, for certain connections in the you will, for certain connections in the you will, for certain connections in the brain to later be reinforced. And the brain to later be reinforced. And the brain to later be reinforced. And the neurochemical adrenaline, which is also neurochemical adrenaline, which is also neurochemical adrenaline, which is also called epinephrine, also depending on if called epinephrine, also depending on if called epinephrine, also depending on if you're in the UK or elsewhere. A long you're in the UK or elsewhere. A long you're in the UK or elsewhere. A long interesting story, not for this time, interesting story, not for this time, interesting story, not for this time, about why it has multiple names. about why it has multiple names. about why it has multiple names. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> Epinephrine, also called adrenaline, is >> Epinephrine, also called adrenaline, is >> Epinephrine, also called adrenaline, is associated with an increase in kind of associated with an increase in kind of associated with an increase in kind of agitation and alertness. Acetylcholine, agitation and alertness. Acetylcholine, agitation and alertness. Acetylcholine, think of it as kind of a spotlight or a think of it as kind of a spotlight or a think of it as kind of a spotlight or a highlighter pen for certain connections highlighter pen for certain connections highlighter pen for certain connections in the brain. in the brain. in the brain. So, you need alertness and focus. And So, you need alertness and focus. And So, you need alertness and focus. And then the second stage is that it is only then the second stage is that it is only then the second stage is that it is only during periods of deep rest, in during periods of deep rest, in during periods of deep rest, in particular sleep and something that I particular sleep and something that I particular sleep and something that I call non-sleep deep rest, which I've call non-sleep deep rest, which I've call non-sleep deep rest, which I've given an acronym cuz scientists like given an acronym cuz scientists like given an acronym cuz scientists like acronyms, NSDR, non-sleep deep rest. acronyms, NSDR, non-sleep deep rest. acronyms, NSDR, non-sleep deep rest. Things like yoga nidra, things like Things like yoga nidra, things like Things like yoga nidra, things like shallow naps, things like forms of shallow naps, things like forms of shallow naps, things like forms of meditation that don't involve a lot of meditation that don't involve a lot of meditation that don't involve a lot of focused concentration. You're a far more focused concentration. You're a far more focused concentration. You're a far more the experienced meditator than I, so I'm the experienced meditator than I, so I'm the experienced meditator than I, so I'm outside my wheelhouse when talking about outside my wheelhouse when talking about outside my wheelhouse when talking about meditation. But, it is only meditation. But, it is only meditation. But, it is only periods of intense focus and alertness, periods of intense focus and alertness, periods of intense focus and alertness, followed by periods of deep rest, that followed by periods of deep rest, that followed by periods of deep rest, that allow the nervous system to change. And allow the nervous system to change. And allow the nervous system to change. And there is an abundance of evidence for there is an abundance of evidence for there is an abundance of evidence for that. So, that's the first thing to that. So, that's the first thing to that. So, that's the first thing to understand. The brain actually re-wires understand. The brain actually re-wires understand. The brain actually re-wires during deep sleep and rest, because during deep sleep and rest, because during deep sleep and rest, because during deep sleep and rest, naps, yoga during deep sleep and rest, naps, yoga during deep sleep and rest, naps, yoga nidra, deep sleep, there's a replay of nidra, deep sleep, there's a replay of nidra, deep sleep, there's a replay of the very same cells in the brain that the very same cells in the brain that the very same cells in the brain that were active during learning, often times were active during learning, often times were active during learning, often times in reverse, for reasons that are still in reverse, for reasons that are still in reverse, for reasons that are still not understood, but at a much higher not understood, but at a much higher not understood, but at a much higher repetition rate. So, you're actually repetition rate. So, you're actually repetition rate. So, you're actually getting repetitions while you sleep. getting repetitions while you sleep. getting repetitions while you sleep. This is why one will strain to learn a This is why one will strain to learn a This is why one will strain to learn a language or a motor skill or maths or language or a motor skill or maths or language or a motor skill or maths or something like that over and over and something like that over and over and something like that over and over and over it doesn't happen. You take a over it doesn't happen. You take a over it doesn't happen. You take a couple of nights sleep, take a break couple of nights sleep, take a break couple of nights sleep, take a break from it all of a sudden it's there. It's from it all of a sudden it's there. It's from it all of a sudden it's there. It's because it happens in rest. Now there's because it happens in rest. Now there's because it happens in rest. Now there's some other things that one can do to some other things that one can do to some other things that one can do to enhance this process further that are enhance this process further that are enhance this process further that are arrived to us from good data. arrived to us from good data. arrived to us from good data. First of all, there's a so-called First of all, there's a so-called First of all, there's a so-called ultradian rhythm which is the 90-minute ultradian rhythm which is the 90-minute ultradian rhythm which is the 90-minute cycles during which we can focus pretty cycles during which we can focus pretty cycles during which we can focus pretty well for a duration of about 90 minutes. well for a duration of about 90 minutes. well for a duration of about 90 minutes. Of course flickering in and out of Of course flickering in and out of Of course flickering in and out of focus. Nobody really focuses for 90 focus. Nobody really focuses for 90 focus. Nobody really focuses for 90 minutes straight unless they've built up minutes straight unless they've built up minutes straight unless they've built up that capacity or they are very that capacity or they are very that capacity or they are very interested in what they're learning, interested in what they're learning, interested in what they're learning, right? They're just wrapped with right? They're just wrapped with right? They're just wrapped with attention. But usually people flicker in attention. But usually people flicker in attention. But usually people flicker in and out. And of course nowadays there's and out. And of course nowadays there's and out. And of course nowadays there's a lot of literature and ideas about ways a lot of literature and ideas about ways a lot of literature and ideas about ways to maintain focus. Put the phone away, to maintain focus. Put the phone away, to maintain focus. Put the phone away, limit noise. Some people like background limit noise. Some people like background limit noise. Some people like background noise, some people like music, some noise, some people like music, some noise, some people like music, some don't. It's very contextual, highly don't. It's very contextual, highly don't. It's very contextual, highly individualized. individualized. individualized. But 90 minutes is sort of the the But 90 minutes is sort of the the But 90 minutes is sort of the the the batch of time that the brain can the batch of time that the brain can the batch of time that the brain can focus really hard on one thing before it focus really hard on one thing before it focus really hard on one thing before it needs a true rest of of an hour or two needs a true rest of of an hour or two needs a true rest of of an hour or two before you can go back to learning or before you can go back to learning or before you can go back to learning or working very hard. The other thing is working very hard. The other thing is working very hard. The other thing is that that that there's some very interesting data there's some very interesting data there's some very interesting data showing that shallow naps or NSDR showing that shallow naps or NSDR showing that shallow naps or NSDR non-sleep deep rest done within 4 hours non-sleep deep rest done within 4 hours non-sleep deep rest done within 4 hours of one of these 90-minute learning bouts of one of these 90-minute learning bouts of one of these 90-minute learning bouts can be very beneficial for accelerating can be very beneficial for accelerating can be very beneficial for accelerating learning. And then there are these learning. And then there are these learning. And then there are these incredible data on so-called gap incredible data on so-called gap incredible data on so-called gap effects. So there have been studies now effects. So there have been studies now effects. So there have been studies now of of skills that are physical skills, of of skills that are physical skills, of of skills that are physical skills, mental skills where people will for mental skills where people will for mental skills where people will for instance try to learn scales on the instance try to learn scales on the instance try to learn scales on the piano or a math problem or a spatial piano or a math problem or a spatial piano or a math problem or a spatial problem or a physical skill and then at problem or a physical skill and then at problem or a physical skill and then at random random random every so often a buzzer will go off and every so often a buzzer will go off and every so often a buzzer will go off and the person will just be told to do the person will just be told to do the person will just be told to do nothing. Sit there eyes closed or eyes nothing. Sit there eyes closed or eyes nothing. Sit there eyes closed or eyes open and do nothing. Just stop the open and do nothing. Just stop the open and do nothing. Just stop the learning process for about 10 seconds learning process for about 10 seconds learning process for about 10 seconds and then return to doing what they're and then return to doing what they're and then return to doing what they're doing. These are these little micro doing. These are these little micro doing. These are these little micro rests. Turns out that during those micro rests. Turns out that during those micro rests. Turns out that during those micro rests the hippocampus a brain area as rests the hippocampus a brain area as rests the hippocampus a brain area as you know that's associated with learning you know that's associated with learning you know that's associated with learning and memory and the neocortex also and memory and the neocortex also and memory and the neocortex also associated with learning and memory associated with learning and memory associated with learning and memory undergoes replay of the thing that the undergoes replay of the thing that the undergoes replay of the thing that the individual is trying to learn at 20 individual is trying to learn at 20 individual is trying to learn at 20 times the speed also in reverse just as times the speed also in reverse just as times the speed also in reverse just as in sleep and that has can lead and has in sleep and that has can lead and has in sleep and that has can lead and has been shown to lead to accelerations in been shown to lead to accelerations in been shown to lead to accelerations in learning. So there these ways I wouldn't learning. So there these ways I wouldn't learning. So there these ways I wouldn't even think of them as hacks because the even think of them as hacks because the even think of them as hacks because the word hack is a little tricky because word hack is a little tricky because word hack is a little tricky because when I think of the word hack it seems when I think of the word hack it seems when I think of the word hack it seems doing something with an object or a tool doing something with an object or a tool doing something with an object or a tool that wasn't designed for that purpose, that wasn't designed for that purpose, that wasn't designed for that purpose, right? The nervous system already right? The nervous system already right? The nervous system already harbors these mechanisms and one can harbors these mechanisms and one can harbors these mechanisms and one can access them through these little micro access them through these little micro access them through these little micro rests. So whether or not you're a child rests. So whether or not you're a child rests. So whether or not you're a child or an adult every so often when trying or an adult every so often when trying or an adult every so often when trying to learn something just pause for 10 to learn something just pause for 10 to learn something just pause for 10 seconds or so do your best to just clear seconds or so do your best to just clear seconds or so do your best to just clear your mind. Of course it's very hard to your mind. Of course it's very hard to your mind. Of course it's very hard to clear the mind but clear the mind but clear the mind but do your best to clear the mind and then do your best to clear the mind and then do your best to clear the mind and then go back to the learning task as as it go back to the learning task as as it go back to the learning task as as it were and that has been shown to very to were and that has been shown to very to were and that has been shown to very to significantly accelerate the learning significantly accelerate the learning significantly accelerate the learning process and the retention of newly process and the retention of newly process and the retention of newly learned information. And then the last learned information. And then the last learned information. And then the last thing you touched on earlier which is thing you touched on earlier which is thing you touched on earlier which is this notion of incremental learning. You this notion of incremental learning. You this notion of incremental learning. You said you like to throw yourself into said you like to throw yourself into said you like to throw yourself into something as kind of a litmus test of something as kind of a litmus test of something as kind of a litmus test of whether or not you enjoy it or not. whether or not you enjoy it or not. whether or not you enjoy it or not. Turns out that from beautiful work done Turns out that from beautiful work done Turns out that from beautiful work done by my colleague at Stanford School of by my colleague at Stanford School of by my colleague at Stanford School of Medicine Eric Knudsen has shown Medicine Eric Knudsen has shown Medicine Eric Knudsen has shown that yes it's true that early in that yes it's true that early in that yes it's true that early in development in humans this would be up development in humans this would be up development in humans this would be up until the mid-20s we can learn things in until the mid-20s we can learn things in until the mid-20s we can learn things in larger batches and much more easily than larger batches and much more easily than larger batches and much more easily than we can later in life. However, if one we can later in life. However, if one we can later in life. However, if one batches that work into smaller batches that work into smaller batches that work into smaller increments increments increments and so for instance deciding maybe set a and so for instance deciding maybe set a and so for instance deciding maybe set a timer turning the phone off otherwise timer turning the phone off otherwise timer turning the phone off otherwise and saying I'm going to spend 3 minutes and saying I'm going to spend 3 minutes and saying I'm going to spend 3 minutes just 3 minutes in trying to intensely just 3 minutes in trying to intensely just 3 minutes in trying to intensely learn this thing even if I feel like I'm learn this thing even if I feel like I'm learn this thing even if I feel like I'm failing. failing. failing. If one does that repeatedly If one does that repeatedly If one does that repeatedly those little increments of learning can those little increments of learning can those little increments of learning can lead to an outsized amount of learning lead to an outsized amount of learning lead to an outsized amount of learning overall. And so the nervous system loves overall. And so the nervous system loves overall. And so the nervous system loves incremental learning. It loves to batch incremental learning. It loves to batch incremental learning. It loves to batch things into focused little bouts. And things into focused little bouts. And things into focused little bouts. And you know if that's already the the tools you know if that's already the the tools you know if that's already the the tools that you've built up which it sounds that you've built up which it sounds that you've built up which it sounds like you have wonderful but if somebody like you have wonderful but if somebody like you have wonderful but if somebody is out there trying you know struggling is out there trying you know struggling is out there trying you know struggling to learn. Really trying to break things to learn. Really trying to break things to learn. Really trying to break things down into very brief periods of intense down into very brief periods of intense down into very brief periods of intense focus. That is the cue by which during focus. That is the cue by which during focus. That is the cue by which during sleep the nervous system will change sleep the nervous system will change sleep the nervous system will change itself. And this has been shown over and itself. And this has been shown over and itself. And this has been shown over and over and over again, even in very late over and over again, even in very late over and over again, even in very late life life life uh individuals, the people in their, you uh individuals, the people in their, you uh individuals, the people in their, you know, I we like to think life could go know, I we like to think life could go know, I we like to think life could go on further than this, but people in on further than this, but people in on further than this, but people in their 80s and 90s still have their 80s and 90s still have their 80s and 90s still have neuroplasticity. There's even evidence neuroplasticity. There's even evidence neuroplasticity. There's even evidence that new neurons can be produced in the that new neurons can be produced in the that new neurons can be produced in the hippocampus of people in their late 80s hippocampus of people in their late 80s hippocampus of people in their late 80s and 90s. So, the capacity is there. and 90s. So, the capacity is there. and 90s. So, the capacity is there. >> This is why I love what you do, because >> This is why I love what you do, because >> This is why I love what you do, because you would never consider that the answer you would never consider that the answer you would never consider that the answer to learning is deep rest, more sleep. to learning is deep rest, more sleep. to learning is deep rest, more sleep. >> Provided the focus comes first. >> Provided the focus comes first. >> Provided the focus comes first. >> yeah. Of course, the focus and the >> yeah. Of course, the focus and the >> yeah. Of course, the focus and the attention as you said. attention as you said. attention as you said. >> But of course, sleep deprivation makes >> But of course, sleep deprivation makes >> But of course, sleep deprivation makes it very hard to learn. And there's a it very hard to learn. And there's a it very hard to learn. And there's a something else that important that something else that important that something else that important that happens in sleep. Nowadays, we I think happens in sleep. Nowadays, we I think happens in sleep. Nowadays, we I think most people, thanks to the beautiful most people, thanks to the beautiful most people, thanks to the beautiful work of Matthew Walker at Berkeley and work of Matthew Walker at Berkeley and work of Matthew Walker at Berkeley and others, really understand the value of others, really understand the value of others, really understand the value of sleep for health, immune system sleep for health, immune system sleep for health, immune system function, etc. There is a stage of function, etc. There is a stage of function, etc. There is a stage of sleep, rapid eye movement sleep, that sleep, rapid eye movement sleep, that sleep, rapid eye movement sleep, that we're all familiar with, of course, with we're all familiar with, of course, with we're all familiar with, of course, with and where literally the eyes are moving, and where literally the eyes are moving, and where literally the eyes are moving, um that tends to come later in the night um that tends to come later in the night um that tends to come later in the night during the second half of sleep, where during the second half of sleep, where during the second half of sleep, where there's a there's a tendency to have there's a there's a tendency to have there's a there's a tendency to have very emotional dreams, very emotional dreams, very emotional dreams, or at least dreams that are or at least dreams that are or at least dreams that are laden with a lot of emotional content of laden with a lot of emotional content of laden with a lot of emotional content of some kind. some kind. some kind. During rapid eye movement sleep, there's During rapid eye movement sleep, there's During rapid eye movement sleep, there's an inability to move the body. We call an inability to move the body. We call an inability to move the body. We call this atonia. It's a literally a a this atonia. It's a literally a a this atonia. It's a literally a a sleep-induced paralysis that's healthy, sleep-induced paralysis that's healthy, sleep-induced paralysis that's healthy, and a complete failure of the nervous and a complete failure of the nervous and a complete failure of the nervous system to release adrenaline, system to release adrenaline, system to release adrenaline, epinephrine. epinephrine. epinephrine. This is sort of like a trauma therapy in This is sort of like a trauma therapy in This is sort of like a trauma therapy in some sense. If you think about it, it's some sense. If you think about it, it's some sense. If you think about it, it's a replay of an emotional event minus the a replay of an emotional event minus the a replay of an emotional event minus the neurochemical that makes us feel tense neurochemical that makes us feel tense neurochemical that makes us feel tense and agitated. So, in our mind those and agitated. So, in our mind those and agitated. So, in our mind those dreams can often feel very distressing. dreams can often feel very distressing. dreams can often feel very distressing. It's been shown that if you deprive It's been shown that if you deprive It's been shown that if you deprive people of of rapid eye movement sleep, people of of rapid eye movement sleep, people of of rapid eye movement sleep, they fail to to dump the negative they fail to to dump the negative they fail to to dump the negative emotions of things that happened the day emotions of things that happened the day emotions of things that happened the day before and the day before. And I think before and the day before. And I think before and the day before. And I think all of us have experienced the shift in all of us have experienced the shift in all of us have experienced the shift in emotionality that happens when we are emotionality that happens when we are emotionality that happens when we are sleep deprived. What ends up happening sleep deprived. What ends up happening sleep deprived. What ends up happening is that the little things seem like big is that the little things seem like big is that the little things seem like big things, but after a few nights sleep, things, but after a few nights sleep, things, but after a few nights sleep, we're okay. And there's no mystery to we're okay. And there's no mystery to we're okay. And there's no mystery to why that is anymore. I think almost why that is anymore. I think almost why that is anymore. I think almost every sleep scientist believes it has every sleep scientist believes it has every sleep scientist believes it has something to do with this built-in kind something to do with this built-in kind something to do with this built-in kind of trauma release therapy where you get of trauma release therapy where you get of trauma release therapy where you get to experience the thing in your sleep to experience the thing in your sleep to experience the thing in your sleep minus the neurochemicals that make your minus the neurochemicals that make your minus the neurochemicals that make your body feel terrible. And somehow that body feel terrible. And somehow that body feel terrible. And somehow that dissociation allows people to then step dissociation allows people to then step dissociation allows people to then step back into life with a with a clean back into life with a with a clean back into life with a with a clean slate. slate. slate. >> Wow, yeah, no, I've I've heard those >> Wow, yeah, no, I've I've heard those >> Wow, yeah, no, I've I've heard those ideas before, but the way you just ideas before, but the way you just ideas before, but the way you just wove it all together is is really wove it all together is is really wove it all together is is really special. What I'm intrigued by then is special. What I'm intrigued by then is special. What I'm intrigued by then is what's the latest science on dreams? what's the latest science on dreams? what's the latest science on dreams? >> Dreams are basically a time in which the >> Dreams are basically a time in which the >> Dreams are basically a time in which the ordinary sequence of life events is ordinary sequence of life events is ordinary sequence of life events is converted into heuristics, shorthand converted into heuristics, shorthand converted into heuristics, shorthand symbols. And the brain loves symbols in symbols. And the brain loves symbols in symbols. And the brain loves symbols in the daytime, too. Right? We don't walk the daytime, too. Right? We don't walk the daytime, too. Right? We don't walk around parsing every angle of every um around parsing every angle of every um around parsing every angle of every um object. The way the visual system works object. The way the visual system works object. The way the visual system works is that the recognition of your face, is that the recognition of your face, is that the recognition of your face, for instance, there's a brain area that for instance, there's a brain area that for instance, there's a brain area that rec- I've seen you many many millions of rec- I've seen you many many millions of rec- I've seen you many many millions of time billions of times, probably. And I time billions of times, probably. And I time billions of times, probably. And I recognize you immediately as Jay Shetty recognize you immediately as Jay Shetty recognize you immediately as Jay Shetty because there literally is a neuron in because there literally is a neuron in because there literally is a neuron in my brain that's a Jay Shetty neuron. We my brain that's a Jay Shetty neuron. We my brain that's a Jay Shetty neuron. We know this, right? From recording from know this, right? From recording from know this, right? From recording from brains of people that recognize people, brains of people that recognize people, brains of people that recognize people, right? If I I met some of your staff right? If I I met some of your staff right? If I I met some of your staff today, lovely people, for the first today, lovely people, for the first today, lovely people, for the first time, now those neurons exist for them. time, now those neurons exist for them. time, now those neurons exist for them. But the that representation of you was But the that representation of you was But the that representation of you was built up through basic representation of built up through basic representation of built up through basic representation of just the orientations of lines. All just the orientations of lines. All just the orientations of lines. All right? Just like a a one would sketch right? Just like a a one would sketch right? Just like a a one would sketch your face and then a build in more your face and then a build in more your face and then a build in more elaborate representation. elaborate representation. elaborate representation. The brain represents things in the The brain represents things in the The brain represents things in the symbols in a very abstract way. So, symbols in a very abstract way. So, symbols in a very abstract way. So, without going down too far of a rabbit without going down too far of a rabbit without going down too far of a rabbit hole, if I were to, for instance, say, hole, if I were to, for instance, say, hole, if I were to, for instance, say, "You know what, Jay, I'm going to play "You know what, Jay, I'm going to play "You know what, Jay, I'm going to play artist today, um of which I'm not, and artist today, um of which I'm not, and artist today, um of which I'm not, and I'm going to draw your face." And I did I'm going to draw your face." And I did I'm going to draw your face." And I did my best to draw your face and showed it my best to draw your face and showed it my best to draw your face and showed it to you, you'd probably say, "Oh, that's to you, you'd probably say, "Oh, that's to you, you'd probably say, "Oh, that's not great, but but you'd probably not great, but but you'd probably not great, but but you'd probably recognize some of the features." But, recognize some of the features." But, recognize some of the features." But, for instance, if I decided that I was for instance, if I decided that I was for instance, if I decided that I was going to put your eyes in a different going to put your eyes in a different going to put your eyes in a different location, eliminate your teeth, put a location, eliminate your teeth, put a location, eliminate your teeth, put a bunch of tattoos on your face, uh for bunch of tattoos on your face, uh for bunch of tattoos on your face, uh for fun, and and show you this, and I'd say, fun, and and show you this, and I'd say, fun, and and show you this, and I'd say, you'd say, "That doesn't look anything you'd say, "That doesn't look anything you'd say, "That doesn't look anything like me." And I say, "Ah, but that's my like me." And I say, "Ah, but that's my like me." And I say, "Ah, but that's my abstract representation of you." It abstract representation of you." It abstract representation of you." It turns out that the brain represents turns out that the brain represents turns out that the brain represents everything in the external world as a everything in the external world as a everything in the external world as a shorthand abstract representation. And shorthand abstract representation. And shorthand abstract representation. And in dreams, the reason that this that we in dreams, the reason that this that we in dreams, the reason that this that we tend to, for instance, replace people tend to, for instance, replace people tend to, for instance, replace people with animals or objects with, um, with animals or objects with, um, with animals or objects with, um, with different objects, with different objects, with different objects, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> is because the brain is thinking more in >> is because the brain is thinking more in >> is because the brain is thinking more in terms of the relationships between terms of the relationships between terms of the relationships between objects than it is the objects objects than it is the objects objects than it is the objects themselves. And so, this is where dream themselves. And so, this is where dream themselves. And so, this is where dream analysis gets a little bit tricky. So, analysis gets a little bit tricky. So, analysis gets a little bit tricky. So, the analyst would say, uh, you know, the analyst would say, uh, you know, the analyst would say, uh, you know, the, for instance, I had a dream not the, for instance, I had a dream not the, for instance, I had a dream not that long ago where I was being chased that long ago where I was being chased that long ago where I was being chased by two animals. It was a bear and a by two animals. It was a bear and a by two animals. It was a bear and a wolf, a very salient dream for me. wolf, a very salient dream for me. wolf, a very salient dream for me. And turns out that that bear and that And turns out that that bear and that And turns out that that bear and that wolf, I realized only later that day, I wolf, I realized only later that day, I wolf, I realized only later that day, I was walking around, I'd gone for a swim was walking around, I'd gone for a swim was walking around, I'd gone for a swim in the ocean, got out of the ocean, and in the ocean, got out of the ocean, and in the ocean, got out of the ocean, and I turned to someone I said, "Oh my I turned to someone I said, "Oh my I turned to someone I said, "Oh my goodness, I know what that was about." goodness, I know what that was about." goodness, I know what that was about." That was about these two children that That was about these two children that That was about these two children that are now in my life that, um, and I are now in my life that, um, and I are now in my life that, um, and I thought they're chasing me like they thought they're chasing me like they thought they're chasing me like they need something for me. And it opened up need something for me. And it opened up need something for me. And it opened up an entire conscious discussion about an entire conscious discussion about an entire conscious discussion about that. So, in my mind, these children that. So, in my mind, these children that. So, in my mind, these children were represented as animals not because were represented as animals not because were represented as animals not because children are always represented as children are always represented as children are always represented as animals, but probably because it was the animals, but probably because it was the animals, but probably because it was the the feeling that they were impinging on the feeling that they were impinging on the feeling that they were impinging on me. And they're one and they're lovely me. And they're one and they're lovely me. And they're one and they're lovely children, but nonetheless that they're children, but nonetheless that they're children, but nonetheless that they're impinging on me. So, the point is not my impinging on me. So, the point is not my impinging on me. So, the point is not my dream. The point is that dream analysis dream. The point is that dream analysis dream. The point is that dream analysis always has to take into account that the always has to take into account that the always has to take into account that the brain operates in symbols where objects brain operates in symbols where objects brain operates in symbols where objects are replaceable, are replaceable, are replaceable, >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> and there is there are only >> and there is there are only >> and there is there are only relationships between objects. And so, relationships between objects. And so, relationships between objects. And so, if one has a very scary dream about a if one has a very scary dream about a if one has a very scary dream about a person or sees a monster, person or sees a monster, person or sees a monster, it's really in the early waking state of it's really in the early waking state of it's really in the early waking state of the day that we are in a position to the day that we are in a position to the day that we are in a position to best understand those relationships. So, best understand those relationships. So, best understand those relationships. So, here's a a tool I recommend that's here's a a tool I recommend that's here's a a tool I recommend that's actually supported by sleep science, actually supported by sleep science, actually supported by sleep science, >> Please. >> Please. >> Please. >> which is when waking >> which is when waking >> which is when waking and in the first 30 minutes or so around and in the first 30 minutes or so around and in the first 30 minutes or so around waking, you're in this liminal state, waking, you're in this liminal state, waking, you're in this liminal state, even if you're somebody who wakes up and even if you're somebody who wakes up and even if you're somebody who wakes up and feels very alert, you're in this liminal feels very alert, you're in this liminal feels very alert, you're in this liminal state where that symbolism is still state where that symbolism is still state where that symbolism is still quite fluid. quite fluid. quite fluid. I highly recommend that people try and I highly recommend that people try and I highly recommend that people try and not bring in too much new sensory not bring in too much new sensory not bring in too much new sensory experience if they want to understand experience if they want to understand experience if they want to understand their dream. Stay lying down with your their dream. Stay lying down with your their dream. Stay lying down with your eyes closed. Maybe tell your partner or eyes closed. Maybe tell your partner or eyes closed. Maybe tell your partner or someone else you live with if you live someone else you live with if you live someone else you live with if you live with somebody that you just need a few with somebody that you just need a few with somebody that you just need a few moments and just try and move about your moments and just try and move about your moments and just try and move about your day in a way where you're not trying to day in a way where you're not trying to day in a way where you're not trying to solve the dream, but you're also not solve the dream, but you're also not solve the dream, but you're also not bringing in a lot of new sensory bringing in a lot of new sensory bringing in a lot of new sensory experience because in that moment you experience because in that moment you experience because in that moment you actually stand a chance of parsing what actually stand a chance of parsing what actually stand a chance of parsing what that relationship is. that relationship is. that relationship is. And this is something that And this is something that And this is something that psychoanalysts understand. This is psychoanalysts understand. This is psychoanalysts understand. This is something that, believe it or not, something that, believe it or not, something that, believe it or not, clinical hypnotists understand. Bring clinical hypnotists understand. Bring clinical hypnotists understand. Bring people into a state of deep relaxation people into a state of deep relaxation people into a state of deep relaxation and be able to capture that transition and be able to capture that transition and be able to capture that transition between the sleep and waking state. between the sleep and waking state. between the sleep and waking state. >> Are there certain healthy symbols for >> Are there certain healthy symbols for >> Are there certain healthy symbols for the brain to connect with on a daily the brain to connect with on a daily the brain to connect with on a daily basis before sleep, after sleep, that basis before sleep, after sleep, that basis before sleep, after sleep, that allow us to program ourselves more allow us to program ourselves more allow us to program ourselves more effectively because I feel like most of effectively because I feel like most of effectively because I feel like most of the symbols that we're seeing are the symbols that we're seeing are the symbols that we're seeing are unconscious or unintentional unconscious or unintentional unconscious or unintentional or mainly marketing or advertising or or mainly marketing or advertising or or mainly marketing or advertising or propaganda, but we're not really propaganda, but we're not really propaganda, but we're not really selective around our symbols. selective around our symbols. selective around our symbols. >> Yeah, I love that you asked this >> Yeah, I love that you asked this >> Yeah, I love that you asked this question because um for years, you know, question because um for years, you know, question because um for years, you know, we hear these things like we you know, we hear these things like we you know, we hear these things like we you know, you are the sum of the five people you you are the sum of the five people you you are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with, but nowadays spend the most time with, but nowadays spend the most time with, but nowadays we spend more time with symbols and we spend more time with symbols and we spend more time with symbols and people on social media than we do often people on social media than we do often people on social media than we do often times with other individuals or at least times with other individuals or at least times with other individuals or at least equal amounts of time in the room, equal amounts of time in the room, equal amounts of time in the room, right? Rarely is it just the physical right? Rarely is it just the physical right? Rarely is it just the physical bodies in the room. It's all the the bodies in the room. It's all the the bodies in the room. It's all the the people in our phone, which I don't see people in our phone, which I don't see people in our phone, which I don't see as a [clears throat] bad thing. as a [clears throat] bad thing. as a [clears throat] bad thing. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Actually, for years um when I was >> Actually, for years um when I was >> Actually, for years um when I was working more or less in isolation in my working more or less in isolation in my working more or less in isolation in my lab, um lab, um lab, um I I I had this little list. I don't think I've had this little list. I don't think I've had this little list. I don't think I've ever shared this before. I had this ever shared this before. I had this ever shared this before. I had this little list of people who uh I love and little list of people who uh I love and little list of people who uh I love and admire. Many of whom I've never met. And admire. Many of whom I've never met. And admire. Many of whom I've never met. And I just would read that list over and I just would read that list over and I just would read that list over and over again. I didn't realize at the over again. I didn't realize at the over again. I didn't realize at the time, but I was developing what believe time, but I was developing what believe time, but I was developing what believe the analysts call this a um an interject the analysts call this a um an interject the analysts call this a um an interject or an introject, perhaps. Someone should or an introject, perhaps. Someone should or an introject, perhaps. Someone should look that up. I forget which one it is. look that up. I forget which one it is. look that up. I forget which one it is. Um Um Um which is actually a subconscious which is actually a subconscious which is actually a subconscious representation of somebody else's ideas representation of somebody else's ideas representation of somebody else's ideas and approach to things. That if we and approach to things. That if we and approach to things. That if we um for instance listen to you over and um for instance listen to you over and um for instance listen to you over and over again, the the nervous system over again, the the nervous system over again, the the nervous system starts to ask questions like what would starts to ask questions like what would starts to ask questions like what would Jay do in this circumstance? That's a Jay do in this circumstance? That's a Jay do in this circumstance? That's a very real thing, and we're not always very real thing, and we're not always very real thing, and we're not always consciously aware of it. Now, physical consciously aware of it. Now, physical consciously aware of it. Now, physical symbols are also very important because symbols are also very important because symbols are also very important because the brain the brain the brain likes to make predictions. likes to make predictions. likes to make predictions. It loves symbols because symbols are a It loves symbols because symbols are a It loves symbols because symbols are a shorthand way of of eliminating a lot of shorthand way of of eliminating a lot of shorthand way of of eliminating a lot of useless information. But much of the way useless information. But much of the way useless information. But much of the way that we operate and feel really does that we operate and feel really does that we operate and feel really does impact us at a subconscious level. impact us at a subconscious level. impact us at a subconscious level. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And this has been shown over and over >> And this has been shown over and over >> And this has been shown over and over again. I mean, it's and it's always cast again. I mean, it's and it's always cast again. I mean, it's and it's always cast in the context of subconscious bias, in the context of subconscious bias, in the context of subconscious bias, which has kind of a negative slant which has kind of a negative slant which has kind of a negative slant anytime we hear bias, of course. But anytime we hear bias, of course. But anytime we hear bias, of course. But there are positive biases as well. So, I there are positive biases as well. So, I there are positive biases as well. So, I think that for some people having order think that for some people having order think that for some people having order among symbols is very important, equal among symbols is very important, equal among symbols is very important, equal spacing, everything very aligned. I'm spacing, everything very aligned. I'm spacing, everything very aligned. I'm sort of one of those, but uh you know, sort of one of those, but uh you know, sort of one of those, but uh you know, I'm kind of in the middle. Um other I'm kind of in the middle. Um other I'm kind of in the middle. Um other people um they aren't so people um they aren't so people um they aren't so consumed with the with the relationships consumed with the with the relationships consumed with the with the relationships between how they arrange things between how they arrange things between how they arrange things physically, but they enjoy great depth physically, but they enjoy great depth physically, but they enjoy great depth and emotional relationship to things. It and emotional relationship to things. It and emotional relationship to things. It could be a pendant. It could be could be a pendant. It could be could be a pendant. It could be nowadays, you know, people like tattoos nowadays, you know, people like tattoos nowadays, you know, people like tattoos are kind of interesting, right? They're are kind of interesting, right? They're are kind of interesting, right? They're much more prominent than when I was much more prominent than when I was much more prominent than when I was growing up. They are an externalization growing up. They are an externalization growing up. They are an externalization of how people feel on the inside. of how people feel on the inside. of how people feel on the inside. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right? So, those are very powerful >> Right? So, those are very powerful >> Right? So, those are very powerful symbols. And there's something about the symbols. And there's something about the symbols. And there's something about the process of stamping it into one's skin, process of stamping it into one's skin, process of stamping it into one's skin, etc. etc. etc. Um the slider intense pain involved and Um the slider intense pain involved and Um the slider intense pain involved and who and the who and the who and the are a way in which we create an external are a way in which we create an external are a way in which we create an external reflection of who we are to ourselves, but also of who we are to ourselves, but also they are operating at a subconscious they are operating at a subconscious they are operating at a subconscious level to keep us for instance in a place level to keep us for instance in a place level to keep us for instance in a place of order. Like to be able to organize of order. Like to be able to organize of order. Like to be able to organize one's thoughts in a world filled with one's thoughts in a world filled with one's thoughts in a world filled with statistical information. Every ray of statistical information. Every ray of statistical information. Every ray of sunshine is statistical information. We sunshine is statistical information. We sunshine is statistical information. We can't pay attention to all of it. So, I can't pay attention to all of it. So, I can't pay attention to all of it. So, I think that um to directly answer your think that um to directly answer your think that um to directly answer your question, there are a couple of things question, there are a couple of things question, there are a couple of things that I think from morning till night that I think from morning till night that I think from morning till night make it out sized positive effect on our make it out sized positive effect on our make it out sized positive effect on our nervous system both in terms of its nervous system both in terms of its nervous system both in terms of its ability to feel, think, and act and its ability to feel, think, and act and its ability to feel, think, and act and its ability to learn. ability to learn. ability to learn. The first one isn't so much a symbol The first one isn't so much a symbol The first one isn't so much a symbol unless you adopt it as one and I unless you adopt it as one and I unless you adopt it as one and I certainly have which is certainly have which is certainly have which is there are now thousands of quality there are now thousands of quality there are now thousands of quality studies showing that studies showing that studies showing that we should all try and get some bright we should all try and get some bright we should all try and get some bright light ideally sunlight in our eyes with light ideally sunlight in our eyes with light ideally sunlight in our eyes with within the early hours of waking. This within the early hours of waking. This within the early hours of waking. This doesn't necessarily meaning waking with doesn't necessarily meaning waking with doesn't necessarily meaning waking with the sunrise although if you can do that the sunrise although if you can do that the sunrise although if you can do that that's great. Some people wake up before that's great. Some people wake up before that's great. Some people wake up before the sun comes out getting a lot of the sun comes out getting a lot of the sun comes out getting a lot of bright sunlight in one's eyes early in bright sunlight in one's eyes early in bright sunlight in one's eyes early in the day puts a number of neurochemicals the day puts a number of neurochemicals the day puts a number of neurochemicals and hormones into a state of and hormones into a state of and hormones into a state of let's just call it what it is let's just call it what it is let's just call it what it is positivity. Mood is enhanced, immune positivity. Mood is enhanced, immune positivity. Mood is enhanced, immune system function is enhanced, sleep is system function is enhanced, sleep is system function is enhanced, sleep is enhanced 16 to you know 20 hours later enhanced 16 to you know 20 hours later enhanced 16 to you know 20 hours later and so on. and so on. and so on. Also in the evening. So, the sun as a Also in the evening. So, the sun as a Also in the evening. So, the sun as a symbol is very important but it's also symbol is very important but it's also symbol is very important but it's also anchoring our subconscious physiology anchoring our subconscious physiology anchoring our subconscious physiology because every cell in our body has a because every cell in our body has a because every cell in our body has a 24-hour clock. We need to time it to the 24-hour clock. We need to time it to the 24-hour clock. We need to time it to the rise and fall of the sun each day. rise and fall of the sun each day. rise and fall of the sun each day. When human beings become When human beings become When human beings become misaligned with that rising and falling misaligned with that rising and falling misaligned with that rising and falling of the sun bad things happens to the of the sun bad things happens to the of the sun bad things happens to the nervous system. Now, fortunately it's nervous system. Now, fortunately it's nervous system. Now, fortunately it's very easy to fix. There's a study done very easy to fix. There's a study done very easy to fix. There's a study done at University of Colorado taking college at University of Colorado taking college at University of Colorado taking college students camping. I wish I'd been a students camping. I wish I'd been a students camping. I wish I'd been a subject in this experiment. What they subject in this experiment. What they subject in this experiment. What they found is that melatonin rhythms, found is that melatonin rhythms, found is that melatonin rhythms, cortisol rhythms which can be a healthy cortisol rhythms which can be a healthy cortisol rhythms which can be a healthy thing. We all have cortisol protects us, thing. We all have cortisol protects us, thing. We all have cortisol protects us, energizes us, dopamine, epinephrine, all energizes us, dopamine, epinephrine, all energizes us, dopamine, epinephrine, all these rhythms of the body could be these rhythms of the body could be these rhythms of the body could be reinstated to their proper timing by reinstated to their proper timing by reinstated to their proper timing by waking up and seeing the sun and going waking up and seeing the sun and going waking up and seeing the sun and going to sleep not too long after sunset to sleep not too long after sunset to sleep not too long after sunset depending on time of year for two nights depending on time of year for two nights depending on time of year for two nights and two mornings. And and this lasted at and two mornings. And and this lasted at and two mornings. And and this lasted at least two weeks even though people were least two weeks even though people were least two weeks even though people were getting artificial light. So, I would getting artificial light. So, I would getting artificial light. So, I would say the symbol of the sun is not just say the symbol of the sun is not just say the symbol of the sun is not just you know it's not a trivial thing at you know it's not a trivial thing at you know it's not a trivial thing at all. It's the anchor by which our our all. It's the anchor by which our our all. It's the anchor by which our our biology is designed and our psychology biology is designed and our psychology biology is designed and our psychology follows of course. follows of course. follows of course. >> That's a brilliant one by the way. Thank >> That's a brilliant one by the way. Thank >> That's a brilliant one by the way. Thank you. I you. I you. I >> you know many people who have trouble >> you know many people who have trouble >> you know many people who have trouble sleeping, many people who have mood sleeping, many people who have mood sleeping, many people who have mood issues, this enhances metabolism. I issues, this enhances metabolism. I issues, this enhances metabolism. I mean, I could list it on and on and on. mean, I could list it on and on and on. mean, I could list it on and on and on. People will ask, so I'll just put it out People will ask, so I'll just put it out People will ask, so I'll just put it out there. there. there. Um Um Um try and do this without sunglasses if try and do this without sunglasses if try and do this without sunglasses if you safely can. You don't stare directly you safely can. You don't stare directly you safely can. You don't stare directly at the sun. Never look at any light so at the sun. Never look at any light so at the sun. Never look at any light so bright that it's painful to look at. You bright that it's painful to look at. You bright that it's painful to look at. You can of course blink. Only takes a few can of course blink. Only takes a few can of course blink. Only takes a few minutes on a cloudless day. If you're in minutes on a cloudless day. If you're in minutes on a cloudless day. If you're in the UK in the depths of winter, you're the UK in the depths of winter, you're the UK in the depths of winter, you're still going to get more light coming still going to get more light coming still going to get more light coming through cloud cover by going outside through cloud cover by going outside through cloud cover by going outside than you would indoors with bright than you would indoors with bright than you would indoors with bright lights on. lights on. lights on. And it can take anywhere from 2 minutes And it can take anywhere from 2 minutes And it can take anywhere from 2 minutes to 30 minutes depending on how dark or to 30 minutes depending on how dark or to 30 minutes depending on how dark or or bright it is outside. or bright it is outside. or bright it is outside. Sunglasses and excuse me, eyeglasses and Sunglasses and excuse me, eyeglasses and Sunglasses and excuse me, eyeglasses and contacts perfectly fine. If you think contacts perfectly fine. If you think contacts perfectly fine. If you think about it, if anything, that just focuses about it, if anything, that just focuses about it, if anything, that just focuses light onto the retina. Don't try and do light onto the retina. Don't try and do light onto the retina. Don't try and do this through a window or or a windshield this through a window or or a windshield this through a window or or a windshield because it filters out a lot of the because it filters out a lot of the because it filters out a lot of the light that you want. So, the sun is a light that you want. So, the sun is a light that you want. So, the sun is a key symbol. I think if people could key symbol. I think if people could key symbol. I think if people could adopt that, their I'm certain their adopt that, their I'm certain their adopt that, their I'm certain their physiology and psychology will benefit. physiology and psychology will benefit. physiology and psychology will benefit. Then in terms of physical symbols, Then in terms of physical symbols, Then in terms of physical symbols, I find it very useful and that there are I find it very useful and that there are I find it very useful and that there are good data. If a If you know, if a good data. If a If you know, if a good data. If a If you know, if a picture is worth a thousand words, a picture is worth a thousand words, a picture is worth a thousand words, a movie is worth a bazillion pictures. So, movie is worth a bazillion pictures. So, movie is worth a bazillion pictures. So, having an image of something that makes having an image of something that makes having an image of something that makes you feel good and seeing that early in you feel good and seeing that early in you feel good and seeing that early in the day tremendously powerful. Having a the day tremendously powerful. Having a the day tremendously powerful. Having a mental image of something in your mind mental image of something in your mind mental image of something in your mind is equally powerful because you also is equally powerful because you also is equally powerful because you also carry that with you. And then if you do carry that with you. And then if you do carry that with you. And then if you do have a meditative practice or even if have a meditative practice or even if have a meditative practice or even if you don't, being able to try and bring you don't, being able to try and bring you don't, being able to try and bring the mind and the body into that the mind and the body into that the mind and the body into that experience. So, taking a moment to look experience. So, taking a moment to look experience. So, taking a moment to look at a photo of someone that you love or at a photo of someone that you love or at a photo of someone that you love or appreciate appreciate appreciate and or the actual person, right? And and or the actual person, right? And and or the actual person, right? And being able to actually sense that and being able to actually sense that and being able to actually sense that and feel it at a complete nervous system feel it at a complete nervous system feel it at a complete nervous system level. It might sound like kind of woo level. It might sound like kind of woo level. It might sound like kind of woo science, but it's not. The nervous science, but it's not. The nervous science, but it's not. The nervous system extends through the whole body. system extends through the whole body. system extends through the whole body. So, the extent that you can make that a So, the extent that you can make that a So, the extent that you can make that a truly whole body somatic experience, truly whole body somatic experience, truly whole body somatic experience, that it leads to an outsized effect on that it leads to an outsized effect on that it leads to an outsized effect on the just the ability of the nervous the just the ability of the nervous the just the ability of the nervous system to function. And then of course, system to function. And then of course, system to function. And then of course, we're we are bombarded all day with we're we are bombarded all day with we're we are bombarded all day with negative symbols. There's just no way negative symbols. There's just no way negative symbols. There's just no way around that. But we can buffer ourselves around that. But we can buffer ourselves around that. But we can buffer ourselves against those negative symbols by very against those negative symbols by very against those negative symbols by very strongly associating with certain strongly associating with certain strongly associating with certain things. And here I'll just defer that things. And here I'll just defer that things. And here I'll just defer that great neurologist and writer Oliver great neurologist and writer Oliver great neurologist and writer Oliver Sacks had this obsession with minerals Sacks had this obsession with minerals Sacks had this obsession with minerals and stones. He felt they had and stones. He felt they had and stones. He felt they had personalities. And he used to say that personalities. And he used to say that personalities. And he used to say that he had developed such a strong he had developed such a strong he had developed such a strong relationship to them, their touch, relationship to them, their touch, relationship to them, their touch, especially as he started to lose his especially as he started to lose his especially as he started to lose his vision later in life, that the the way vision later in life, that the the way vision later in life, that the the way they felt and they made him feel safe. they felt and they made him feel safe. they felt and they made him feel safe. They made him feel good. So these could They made him feel good. So these could They made him feel good. So these could be inanimate objects. So find things be inanimate objects. So find things be inanimate objects. So find things that you love and associate the with that you love and associate the with that you love and associate the with them on a regular basis, and you are them on a regular basis, and you are them on a regular basis, and you are literally shifting your nervous system literally shifting your nervous system literally shifting your nervous system towards this place of buffering yourself towards this place of buffering yourself towards this place of buffering yourself against negativity, and you are against negativity, and you are against negativity, and you are reinforcing the very circuits that reinforcing the very circuits that reinforcing the very circuits that trigger the release of neurochemicals trigger the release of neurochemicals trigger the release of neurochemicals that make you feel better. And some that make you feel better. And some that make you feel better. And some people might say, "Well, then you're people might say, "Well, then you're people might say, "Well, then you're just kind of doping yourself up with just kind of doping yourself up with just kind of doping yourself up with your own chemicals." But as a last point your own chemicals." But as a last point your own chemicals." But as a last point here, the neurochemical dopamine is a here, the neurochemical dopamine is a here, the neurochemical dopamine is a very important and very misunderstood very important and very misunderstood very important and very misunderstood molecule. molecule. molecule. First of all, it is the substrate by First of all, it is the substrate by First of all, it is the substrate by which epinephrine, neural energy, is which epinephrine, neural energy, is which epinephrine, neural energy, is created. And people think of it as created. And people think of it as created. And people think of it as dopamine is just feeling good, but dopamine is just feeling good, but dopamine is just feeling good, but dopamine is not about feeling good. dopamine is not about feeling good. dopamine is not about feeling good. Dopamine is the molecule of motivation Dopamine is the molecule of motivation Dopamine is the molecule of motivation and the desire to pursue additional and the desire to pursue additional and the desire to pursue additional things in a particular line of life. So things in a particular line of life. So things in a particular line of life. So when we positively associate with a when we positively associate with a when we positively associate with a song, a person, a face, an object, the song, a person, a face, an object, the song, a person, a face, an object, the sunrise, sunrise, sunrise, we don't just benefit from those we don't just benefit from those we don't just benefit from those activities based on the effects of those activities based on the effects of those activities based on the effects of those activities. It's also what we believe activities. It's also what we believe activities. It's also what we believe about those activities combined. And the about those activities combined. And the about those activities combined. And the release of dopamine makes you more release of dopamine makes you more release of dopamine makes you more capable of then leaning into life and capable of then leaning into life and capable of then leaning into life and going and doing other things. And so it going and doing other things. And so it going and doing other things. And so it And these are not small effects, right? And these are not small effects, right? And these are not small effects, right? The The effect of a small, even, you The The effect of a small, even, you The The effect of a small, even, you know, half a percent increase in know, half a percent increase in know, half a percent increase in dopamine transmission in the brain is dopamine transmission in the brain is dopamine transmission in the brain is the difference between feeling like your the difference between feeling like your the difference between feeling like your life is bleak and you can completely life is bleak and you can completely life is bleak and you can completely attack the day in the positive sense. So attack the day in the positive sense. So attack the day in the positive sense. So fill your life with symbols. You get fill your life with symbols. You get fill your life with symbols. You get What's wonderful is that you get to What's wonderful is that you get to What's wonderful is that you get to curate what those are. curate what those are. curate what those are. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> If you don't have access to them in your >> If you don't have access to them in your >> If you don't have access to them in your physical environment, they can be physical environment, they can be physical environment, they can be entirely internal. entirely internal. entirely internal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And when I think about the great stories >> And when I think about the great stories >> And when I think about the great stories of the Victor Frankls and the of the Victor Frankls and the of the Victor Frankls and the um um um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, uh and people who have just >> You know, uh and people who have just >> You know, uh and people who have just overcome tremendous challenge, they've overcome tremendous challenge, they've overcome tremendous challenge, they've internalized symbols such that the internalized symbols such that the internalized symbols such that the tiniest of things can actually evoke tiniest of things can actually evoke tiniest of things can actually evoke this this dopamine release system. And this this dopamine release system. And this this dopamine release system. And dopamine is just a generic dopamine is just a generic dopamine is just a generic neuromodulator. It doesn't know anything neuromodulator. It doesn't know anything neuromodulator. It doesn't know anything about your experience. It only knows about your experience. It only knows about your experience. It only knows what you believe about your experience. what you believe about your experience. what you believe about your experience. And it's deployed according to what you And it's deployed according to what you And it's deployed according to what you believe about your experience. So, in believe about your experience. So, in believe about your experience. So, in theory, I I could train my dopamine theory, I I could train my dopamine theory, I I could train my dopamine system to release dopamine every time I system to release dopamine every time I system to release dopamine every time I raised my right hand if I genuinely raised my right hand if I genuinely raised my right hand if I genuinely thought that that had If that has thought that that had If that has thought that that had If that has meaning for me. And this is the art also meaning for me. And this is the art also meaning for me. And this is the art also of superstitions, right? This is why uh of superstitions, right? This is why uh of superstitions, right? This is why uh you know, people will engage in you know, people will engage in you know, people will engage in superstitions because they've built superstitions because they've built superstitions because they've built positive associations with outcomes uh positive associations with outcomes uh positive associations with outcomes uh according to a certain behavior. So, according to a certain behavior. So, according to a certain behavior. So, what you start to realize is that the what you start to realize is that the what you start to realize is that the brain is making predictions about the brain is making predictions about the brain is making predictions about the external world. Who's Jay? When's he external world. Who's Jay? When's he external world. Who's Jay? When's he coming back? Um you know, what objects coming back? Um you know, what objects coming back? Um you know, what objects are going to be in the room this time are going to be in the room this time are going to be in the room this time versus next time. If I suddenly walk out versus next time. If I suddenly walk out versus next time. If I suddenly walk out and that painting over there, which I and that painting over there, which I and that painting over there, which I happen to love, is now on a different happen to love, is now on a different happen to love, is now on a different wall, my nervous system would notice wall, my nervous system would notice wall, my nervous system would notice that because it's but it's also making that because it's but it's also making that because it's but it's also making predictions about internal state. predictions about internal state. predictions about internal state. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And a lot of depression and anxiety is >> And a lot of depression and anxiety is >> And a lot of depression and anxiety is about people feeling like oh, when they about people feeling like oh, when they about people feeling like oh, when they feel lousy that that lousy feeling is feel lousy that that lousy feeling is feel lousy that that lousy feeling is going to go on forever. going to go on forever. going to go on forever. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> The way to rewire this is to understand >> The way to rewire this is to understand >> The way to rewire this is to understand that making and controlling predictions that making and controlling predictions that making and controlling predictions about how you feel internally gives you about how you feel internally gives you about how you feel internally gives you a sense of agency. And that sense of a sense of agency. And that sense of a sense of agency. And that sense of agency at the end of the day is just agency at the end of the day is just agency at the end of the day is just purely neurochemical. So, these are purely neurochemical. So, these are purely neurochemical. So, these are pretty straightforward things to master. pretty straightforward things to master. pretty straightforward things to master. >> I mean, that's mind-blowing to me >> I mean, that's mind-blowing to me >> I mean, that's mind-blowing to me because I've never heard dopamine be because I've never heard dopamine be because I've never heard dopamine be explained that way. explained that way. explained that way. >> Well, dopamine Everything about dopamine >> Well, dopamine Everything about dopamine >> Well, dopamine Everything about dopamine release is learned. release is learned. release is learned. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There are a few things like um >> There are a few things like um >> There are a few things like um all the adapt All the ones that evolved all the adapt All the ones that evolved all the adapt All the ones that evolved uh for us to be here. Uh okay? So, uh for us to be here. Uh okay? So, uh for us to be here. Uh okay? So, associated with reproduction, food, associated with reproduction, food, associated with reproduction, food, sugar. There's a very powerful dopamine sugar. There's a very powerful dopamine sugar. There's a very powerful dopamine pathway in the brain and in the gut to pathway in the brain and in the gut to pathway in the brain and in the gut to because sugar has a nutritive value, because sugar has a nutritive value, because sugar has a nutritive value, right? We should all probably be right? We should all probably be right? We should all probably be ingesting less of it, but you know, you ingesting less of it, but you know, you ingesting less of it, but you know, you get it's a hardwired system. Um food get it's a hardwired system. Um food get it's a hardwired system. Um food when we're hungry, warmth when we're when we're hungry, warmth when we're when we're hungry, warmth when we're cold, those are hardwired. But the cold, those are hardwired. But the cold, those are hardwired. But the dopamine system is designed to be dopamine system is designed to be dopamine system is designed to be trained up to associate with anything. trained up to associate with anything. trained up to associate with anything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And this is how a a guy like uh you can >> And this is how a a guy like uh you can >> And this is how a a guy like uh you can meditate for long periods of time and meditate for long periods of time and meditate for long periods of time and feel it I'm guessing there were times in feel it I'm guessing there were times in feel it I'm guessing there were times in which it felt brutal and there were which it felt brutal and there were which it felt brutal and there were times in which it felt incredible. times in which it felt incredible. times in which it felt incredible. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Um this is how a a guy like David >> Um this is how a a guy like David >> Um this is how a a guy like David Goggins can um you know, punish himself Goggins can um you know, punish himself Goggins can um you know, punish himself with running it with running it with running it you know, over and over and over and yet you know, over and over and over and yet you know, over and over and over and yet somehow he's inverted that dopamine somehow he's inverted that dopamine somehow he's inverted that dopamine circuit so that it feels like something circuit so that it feels like something circuit so that it feels like something he either wants to do or that by he either wants to do or that by he either wants to do or that by overcoming the overcoming the overcoming the the resistance to doing it, he he gets a the resistance to doing it, he he gets a the resistance to doing it, he he gets a a dopamine a dopamine a dopamine >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> release. So, dopamine is an entirely a >> release. So, dopamine is an entirely a >> release. So, dopamine is an entirely a learned release system. learned release system. learned release system. There are a few things that trigger its There are a few things that trigger its There are a few things that trigger its release no matter what, but and I should release no matter what, but and I should release no matter what, but and I should highlight drugs of abuse. highlight drugs of abuse. highlight drugs of abuse. >> I was just about to say but you anything >> I was just about to say but you anything >> I was just about to say but you anything can become an addiction. can become an addiction. can become an addiction. >> Cocaine, amphetamine, um excess, you >> Cocaine, amphetamine, um excess, you >> Cocaine, amphetamine, um excess, you know, pornography, excessive dopamine know, pornography, excessive dopamine know, pornography, excessive dopamine release and that the diabolical thing release and that the diabolical thing release and that the diabolical thing about dopamine under those conditions is about dopamine under those conditions is about dopamine under those conditions is that the higher the dopamine release, that the higher the dopamine release, that the higher the dopamine release, the big amplitude dopamine, the bigger the big amplitude dopamine, the bigger the big amplitude dopamine, the bigger the crash, always. It's the way the the crash, always. It's the way the the crash, always. It's the way the circuits are designed. circuits are designed. circuits are designed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now here we're talking about >> Now here we're talking about >> Now here we're talking about self-training in healthier amounts of self-training in healthier amounts of self-training in healthier amounts of dopamine release, non-addictive amounts dopamine release, non-addictive amounts dopamine release, non-addictive amounts of dopamine release or you could say of dopamine release or you could say of dopamine release or you could say mildly addictive patterns of behavior mildly addictive patterns of behavior mildly addictive patterns of behavior that serve us and the people around us that serve us and the people around us that serve us and the people around us well. And in that case, I think of that well. And in that case, I think of that well. And in that case, I think of that as kind of an adaptive addiction as kind of an adaptive addiction as kind of an adaptive addiction compulsion. compulsion. compulsion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and not one that we should >> Um and not one that we should >> Um and not one that we should necessarily avoid. necessarily avoid. necessarily avoid. >> Absolutely. I think that for me, the way >> Absolutely. I think that for me, the way >> Absolutely. I think that for me, the way I differentiate that and I think that's I differentiate that and I think that's I differentiate that and I think that's such a good distinction that you're such a good distinction that you're such a good distinction that you're raising there because what you're raising there because what you're raising there because what you're basically saying is we could convince basically saying is we could convince basically saying is we could convince ourselves through the release of ourselves through the release of ourselves through the release of dopamine that anything is good for us dopamine that anything is good for us dopamine that anything is good for us and hence it can lead to addiction or it and hence it can lead to addiction or it and hence it can lead to addiction or it can be these aspirational positive can be these aspirational positive can be these aspirational positive habits for us. And I think the way I've habits for us. And I think the way I've habits for us. And I think the way I've been able to at least differentiate is been able to at least differentiate is been able to at least differentiate is that which is good for me after that that which is good for me after that that which is good for me after that which makes me feel good after I do it. which makes me feel good after I do it. which makes me feel good after I do it. Because that's that release of dopamine Because that's that release of dopamine Because that's that release of dopamine that I'm experiencing after I do it is that I'm experiencing after I do it is that I'm experiencing after I do it is more important than that which makes me more important than that which makes me more important than that which makes me feel good before I do it. feel good before I do it. feel good before I do it. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> So I don't feel good before I go to the >> So I don't feel good before I go to the >> So I don't feel good before I go to the gym or maybe before I meditate or before gym or maybe before I meditate or before gym or maybe before I meditate or before I eat a healthy bowl of protein and food I eat a healthy bowl of protein and food I eat a healthy bowl of protein and food that's good for me, but I always feel that's good for me, but I always feel that's good for me, but I always feel good after it. good after it. good after it. >> that. >> that. >> that. >> And when I I feel good before I stay up >> And when I I feel good before I stay up >> And when I I feel good before I stay up late at night and hope that we're going late at night and hope that we're going late at night and hope that we're going to have a great time. Well, I feel good to have a great time. Well, I feel good to have a great time. Well, I feel good before I eat a pizza or I feel good before I eat a pizza or I feel good before I eat a pizza or I feel good before I have loads of sugar because I before I have loads of sugar because I before I have loads of sugar because I have a massive sweet tooth, but then have a massive sweet tooth, but then have a massive sweet tooth, but then afterwards I feel the pangs of it. afterwards I feel the pangs of it. afterwards I feel the pangs of it. >> I love that and it proves that um in >> I love that and it proves that um in >> I love that and it proves that um in your heart you're a neuroscientist your heart you're a neuroscientist your heart you're a neuroscientist because there's something called because there's something called because there's something called dopamine reward prediction error. This dopamine reward prediction error. This dopamine reward prediction error. This was defined by a guy named Wolfram was defined by a guy named Wolfram was defined by a guy named Wolfram Schultz and others and it's an Schultz and others and it's an Schultz and others and it's an incredible thing and it can be made very incredible thing and it can be made very incredible thing and it can be made very simple, which is when we positively simple, which is when we positively simple, which is when we positively anticipate something anticipate something anticipate something there is dopamine release. I mean just there is dopamine release. I mean just there is dopamine release. I mean just tell kids that you're going for ice tell kids that you're going for ice tell kids that you're going for ice cream and you're seeing what is I'll now cream and you're seeing what is I'll now cream and you're seeing what is I'll now explain as reward prediction error. Now explain as reward prediction error. Now explain as reward prediction error. Now you get to the ice cream shop and it's you get to the ice cream shop and it's you get to the ice cream shop and it's closed. What happens is their dopamine closed. What happens is their dopamine closed. What happens is their dopamine drops below baseline before they were drops below baseline before they were drops below baseline before they were told they were going for ice cream. If told they were going for ice cream. If told they were going for ice cream. If they're going to the ice cream shop and they're going to the ice cream shop and they're going to the ice cream shop and they have ice cream you might think then they have ice cream you might think then they have ice cream you might think then they get even more dopamine, but guess they get even more dopamine, but guess they get even more dopamine, but guess what? If the ice cream isn't as good or what? If the ice cream isn't as good or what? If the ice cream isn't as good or if one kid the the ice cream cone falls if one kid the the ice cream cone falls if one kid the the ice cream cone falls and they don't get another one, what and they don't get another one, what and they don't get another one, what ends up happening is that ends up happening is that ends up happening is that dopamine is dopamine is dopamine is relative to where they were just relative to where they were just relative to where they were just feeling, it doesn't feel that great. feeling, it doesn't feel that great. feeling, it doesn't feel that great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so this is the the the diabolical >> And so this is the the the diabolical >> And so this is the the the diabolical nature of addictive drugs. People get a nature of addictive drugs. People get a nature of addictive drugs. People get a dopamine surge in anticipation of using dopamine surge in anticipation of using dopamine surge in anticipation of using and over time they get less and less of and over time they get less and less of and over time they get less and less of a dopamine surge, but the punishment a dopamine surge, but the punishment a dopamine surge, but the punishment signal as we say that comes afterwards, signal as we say that comes afterwards, signal as we say that comes afterwards, the trough afterwards goes lower and the trough afterwards goes lower and the trough afterwards goes lower and lower and lower. So it's like a lower and lower. So it's like a lower and lower. So it's like a asymmetric seesaw. It's not just back asymmetric seesaw. It's not just back asymmetric seesaw. It's not just back and forth, it goes "Dopamine." But then and forth, it goes "Dopamine." But then and forth, it goes "Dopamine." But then it goes, "Punishment signal." Now, you it goes, "Punishment signal." Now, you it goes, "Punishment signal." Now, you figured it out because dopamine reward figured it out because dopamine reward figured it out because dopamine reward prediction error says that if you have prediction error says that if you have prediction error says that if you have less dopamine heading into something less dopamine heading into something less dopamine heading into something than you do afterward, than you do afterward, than you do afterward, that tells the synapses, the brain that tells the synapses, the brain that tells the synapses, the brain connections that were involved to connections that were involved to connections that were involved to reinforce themselves and to engage in reinforce themselves and to engage in reinforce themselves and to engage in that behavior again. And this is also that behavior again. And this is also that behavior again. And this is also what happens with surprise. If you go what happens with surprise. If you go what happens with surprise. If you go someplace you're not expecting it. Like, someplace you're not expecting it. Like, someplace you're not expecting it. Like, you know what? Like, let's let's go this you know what? Like, let's let's go this you know what? Like, let's let's go this place for dinner. I don't know. Looks place for dinner. I don't know. Looks place for dinner. I don't know. Looks good. And it's amazing. You create a good. And it's amazing. You create a good. And it's amazing. You create a much bigger dopamine signal than if I much bigger dopamine signal than if I much bigger dopamine signal than if I tell you, "Jay, I got to take you this tell you, "Jay, I got to take you this tell you, "Jay, I got to take you this place. This is the best sushi in Los place. This is the best sushi in Los place. This is the best sushi in Los Angeles. It's incredible." That actually Angeles. It's incredible." That actually Angeles. It's incredible." That actually sets you up to not enjoy the meal as sets you up to not enjoy the meal as sets you up to not enjoy the meal as much. So, we all should learn to kind of much. So, we all should learn to kind of much. So, we all should learn to kind of control this dopamine knob. You've done control this dopamine knob. You've done control this dopamine knob. You've done it beautifully by simplifying it into it beautifully by simplifying it into it beautifully by simplifying it into making sure that you get enough making sure that you get enough making sure that you get enough happiness, thrill, excitement in happiness, thrill, excitement in happiness, thrill, excitement in retrospect. That's the way to wire in retrospect. That's the way to wire in retrospect. That's the way to wire in healthy behaviors. And I'm I I've never healthy behaviors. And I'm I I've never healthy behaviors. And I'm I I've never actually heard it put as succinctly as actually heard it put as succinctly as actually heard it put as succinctly as you because academics are not trained to you because academics are not trained to you because academics are not trained to be succinct, as you can tell. But, I be succinct, as you can tell. But, I be succinct, as you can tell. But, I think if everyone kept that in mind, think if everyone kept that in mind, think if everyone kept that in mind, they would do themselves a great they would do themselves a great they would do themselves a great service, which is service, which is service, which is try and ask whether or not the ple you try and ask whether or not the ple you try and ask whether or not the ple you had as much or more pleasure in the had as much or more pleasure in the had as much or more pleasure in the aftermath of something as you did aftermath of something as you did aftermath of something as you did during. during. during. And you will And you will And you will you get two benefits. One is you can you get two benefits. One is you can you get two benefits. One is you can avoid addictive type behaviors. avoid addictive type behaviors. avoid addictive type behaviors. And the other, because you avoid that And the other, because you avoid that And the other, because you avoid that crash. If there's a dopamine release crash. If there's a dopamine release crash. If there's a dopamine release after, there's no crash. And the other after, there's no crash. And the other after, there's no crash. And the other is that you'll have a tendency to return is that you'll have a tendency to return is that you'll have a tendency to return to that behavior over and over again. to that behavior over and over again. to that behavior over and over again. That's also why I think a lot of people That's also why I think a lot of people That's also why I think a lot of people enter new relationships. And there is a enter new relationships. And there is a enter new relationships. And there is a well-established dopamine surge with the well-established dopamine surge with the well-established dopamine surge with the early phase. Everything feels possible. early phase. Everything feels possible. early phase. Everything feels possible. People feel like people will go out and People feel like people will go out and People feel like people will go out and make purchases. They're kind of manic, make purchases. They're kind of manic, make purchases. They're kind of manic, right? And it's a very exciting kind of right? And it's a very exciting kind of right? And it's a very exciting kind of mental illness that we all enjoy from mental illness that we all enjoy from mental illness that we all enjoy from time to time. time to time. time to time. People start to enter the phase of real People start to enter the phase of real People start to enter the phase of real challenge or often times real challenge. challenge or often times real challenge. challenge or often times real challenge. And if they can't make that transition And if they can't make that transition And if they can't make that transition seamlessly and they constantly focus seamlessly and they constantly focus seamlessly and they constantly focus back on how great things were and they back on how great things were and they back on how great things were and they look at the differential, it can be a look at the differential, it can be a look at the differential, it can be a kind of a dark picture. And then people kind of a dark picture. And then people kind of a dark picture. And then people have to start working on trying to have to start working on trying to have to start working on trying to reignite, so to speak. So, I think that reignite, so to speak. So, I think that reignite, so to speak. So, I think that a wonderful model for relationship is a wonderful model for relationship is a wonderful model for relationship is also to temper that dopamine release. also to temper that dopamine release. also to temper that dopamine release. Spread it out over time. Try and spread Spread it out over time. Try and spread Spread it out over time. Try and spread it out over 50 years and you and you're it out over 50 years and you and you're it out over 50 years and you and you're home free. Now, I'm not an expert in home free. Now, I'm not an expert in home free. Now, I'm not an expert in relationship, but it is absolutely clear relationship, but it is absolutely clear relationship, but it is absolutely clear that dopamine is the hallmark of human that dopamine is the hallmark of human that dopamine is the hallmark of human bonding. Then, you know, early on bonding. Then, you know, early on bonding. Then, you know, early on anyway, then come the oxytocin and all anyway, then come the oxytocin and all anyway, then come the oxytocin and all that the the feel-good warmth molecules that the the feel-good warmth molecules that the the feel-good warmth molecules because dopamine fundamentally is about because dopamine fundamentally is about because dopamine fundamentally is about accessing things that are outside your accessing things that are outside your accessing things that are outside your immediate experience. It's reaching for immediate experience. It's reaching for immediate experience. It's reaching for things beyond the confines of your skin. things beyond the confines of your skin. things beyond the confines of your skin. A degree, A degree, A degree, money, a relationship that you're work money, a relationship that you're work money, a relationship that you're work that's developing and that you're that's developing and that you're that's developing and that you're working on. Whereas the serotonin and working on. Whereas the serotonin and working on. Whereas the serotonin and oxytocin system, which I think most oxytocin system, which I think most oxytocin system, which I think most people have heard of, are feel-good people have heard of, are feel-good people have heard of, are feel-good molecules. They're associated with molecules. They're associated with molecules. They're associated with things we already have. Knowledge of how things we already have. Knowledge of how things we already have. Knowledge of how wonderful our partner is. Knowledge of wonderful our partner is. Knowledge of wonderful our partner is. Knowledge of how much we love something or or how how much we love something or or how how much we love something or or how much we appreciate the meal that we had. much we appreciate the meal that we had. much we appreciate the meal that we had. So, neither it's not that dopamine is So, neither it's not that dopamine is So, neither it's not that dopamine is bad and and and serotonin is good. These bad and and and serotonin is good. These bad and and and serotonin is good. These are molecules that have been built up in are molecules that have been built up in are molecules that have been built up in our system over time to allow us to our system over time to allow us to our system over time to allow us to establish new relationships of all establish new relationships of all establish new relationships of all kinds, to things and people and to kinds, to things and people and to kinds, to things and people and to ourselves, and then to sustain them. But ourselves, and then to sustain them. But ourselves, and then to sustain them. But that those big dopamine peaks early on that those big dopamine peaks early on that those big dopamine peaks early on are very, very are very, very are very, very dangerous. And you we need to learn to dangerous. And you we need to learn to dangerous. And you we need to learn to temper them. And just spread that out temper them. And just spread that out temper them. And just spread that out over time. It's a resource and we need over time. It's a resource and we need over time. It's a resource and we need to learn to calibrate that resource. to learn to calibrate that resource. to learn to calibrate that resource. >> As we all know, shifting and being good >> As we all know, shifting and being good >> As we all know, shifting and being good with change is so integral. with change is so integral. with change is so integral. What do we do with that? Like, how do we What do we do with that? Like, how do we What do we do with that? Like, how do we start opening up and being more start opening up and being more start opening up and being more comfortable comfortable comfortable in the discomfort of change, not just in the discomfort of change, not just in the discomfort of change, not just growth, but just change and shifts that growth, but just change and shifts that growth, but just change and shifts that we don't expect and predict? we don't expect and predict? we don't expect and predict? >> Yeah, I think two ways. Um one, I'll >> Yeah, I think two ways. Um one, I'll >> Yeah, I think two ways. Um one, I'll just go back to this fundamental feature just go back to this fundamental feature just go back to this fundamental feature of the nervous system, which is it's of the nervous system, which is it's of the nervous system, which is it's trying to make predictions. So, the trying to make predictions. So, the trying to make predictions. So, the reason why change is stressful, even reason why change is stressful, even reason why change is stressful, even positive change, believe it or not, is positive change, believe it or not, is positive change, believe it or not, is {quote} "stressful" Um {quote} "stressful" Um {quote} "stressful" Um >> uh is because of this then the release >> uh is because of this then the release >> uh is because of this then the release of adrenaline and and associated of adrenaline and and associated of adrenaline and and associated molecules with anytime things change. I molecules with anytime things change. I molecules with anytime things change. I mean, if you look at the psychologists mean, if you look at the psychologists mean, if you look at the psychologists have worked this out, there's a have worked this out, there's a have worked this out, there's a hierarchy of stressors. hierarchy of stressors. hierarchy of stressors. Um and of course at the at the top of Um and of course at the at the top of Um and of course at the at the top of that hierarchy are awful things that we that hierarchy are awful things that we that hierarchy are awful things that we don't you know, I think at the top, to don't you know, I think at the top, to don't you know, I think at the top, to be honest, I think death of a child is be honest, I think death of a child is be honest, I think death of a child is is perhaps the the greatest stressor. is perhaps the the greatest stressor. is perhaps the the greatest stressor. Divorce, death of a loved one, um Divorce, death of a loved one, um Divorce, death of a loved one, um these kinds of horrible things that we these kinds of horrible things that we these kinds of horrible things that we wouldn't wish on anyone. Then, as one wouldn't wish on anyone. Then, as one wouldn't wish on anyone. Then, as one goes down, not too far below, you see goes down, not too far below, you see goes down, not too far below, you see things like moving to a new home or things like moving to a new home or things like moving to a new home or apartment. You think, well, that could apartment. You think, well, that could apartment. You think, well, that could be a great event, right? Birth of a new be a great event, right? Birth of a new be a great event, right? Birth of a new child. And you think, wait a second, I child. And you think, wait a second, I child. And you think, wait a second, I thought that's supposed to be one of the thought that's supposed to be one of the thought that's supposed to be one of the greatest joys in life, and indeed it is. greatest joys in life, and indeed it is. greatest joys in life, and indeed it is. But it's stressful to the nervous system But it's stressful to the nervous system But it's stressful to the nervous system because so many things have to be because so many things have to be because so many things have to be reconfigured to sit not to say anything reconfigured to sit not to say anything reconfigured to sit not to say anything about the lack of sleep with a newborn about the lack of sleep with a newborn about the lack of sleep with a newborn and this kind of thing. So, and this kind of thing. So, and this kind of thing. So, change is always going to force our change is always going to force our change is always going to force our brain to make more assessments of our brain to make more assessments of our brain to make more assessments of our environment. One of the things that we environment. One of the things that we environment. One of the things that we can say about the brain for sure is that can say about the brain for sure is that can say about the brain for sure is that once it learns something, it likes to once it learns something, it likes to once it learns something, it likes to not have to think about it. When you not have to think about it. When you not have to think about it. When you walk, because you already know how to walk, because you already know how to walk, because you already know how to walk, you don't think right, left, walk, you don't think right, left, walk, you don't think right, left, right, left, right, left. But when you right, left, right, left. But when you right, left, right, left. But when you learn how to dance a new step or learn how to dance a new step or learn how to dance a new step or something of that sort or a new skill something of that sort or a new skill something of that sort or a new skill uh sports skill, you have to think about uh sports skill, you have to think about uh sports skill, you have to think about it, and it's work. And anytime we have it, and it's work. And anytime we have it, and it's work. And anytime we have to think about behaviors and they aren't to think about behaviors and they aren't to think about behaviors and they aren't simply reflexive, that work, as we call simply reflexive, that work, as we call simply reflexive, that work, as we call it, is in it's a combination of the it, is in it's a combination of the it, is in it's a combination of the release of things like adrenaline, release of things like adrenaline, release of things like adrenaline, epinephrine in the brain and body, I epinephrine in the brain and body, I epinephrine in the brain and body, I should say, from the adrenals in the should say, from the adrenals in the should say, from the adrenals in the body, but also in the brain from a body, but also in the brain from a body, but also in the brain from a little brain area called locus ceruleus little brain area called locus ceruleus little brain area called locus ceruleus that is acts as kind of a sprinkler that is acts as kind of a sprinkler that is acts as kind of a sprinkler system for the brain to kind of wake up system for the brain to kind of wake up system for the brain to kind of wake up all brain areas saying, okay, let's pay all brain areas saying, okay, let's pay all brain areas saying, okay, let's pay attention to a lot of stuff here. Very attention to a lot of stuff here. Very attention to a lot of stuff here. Very basic system, um but but very basic system, um but but very basic system, um but but very fundamental system. It's literally a fundamental system. It's literally a fundamental system. It's literally a wake-up system for the brain. Works in wake-up system for the brain. Works in wake-up system for the brain. Works in parallel with the release of adrenaline parallel with the release of adrenaline parallel with the release of adrenaline into our body. into our body. into our body. Now, Now, Now, one way to deal with change is to simply one way to deal with change is to simply one way to deal with change is to simply know this, right? To understand that if know this, right? To understand that if know this, right? To understand that if one feels stressed or agitated around a one feels stressed or agitated around a one feels stressed or agitated around a new move, or you have a partner who's new move, or you have a partner who's new move, or you have a partner who's really stressed about a new move even really stressed about a new move even really stressed about a new move even though it's exciting, it should be though it's exciting, it should be though it's exciting, it should be exciting, that that's perfectly normal exciting, that that's perfectly normal exciting, that that's perfectly normal because what they're experiencing is because what they're experiencing is because what they're experiencing is this increase in agitation and this increase in agitation and this increase in agitation and alertness, and it also makes it harder alertness, and it also makes it harder alertness, and it also makes it harder to enter deeply relaxed states because to enter deeply relaxed states because to enter deeply relaxed states because the brain is in a mode of predictions, the brain is in a mode of predictions, the brain is in a mode of predictions, making predictions, what's happening making predictions, what's happening making predictions, what's happening next, thinking, thinking, thinking. And next, thinking, thinking, thinking. And next, thinking, thinking, thinking. And one of the things that's key to falling one of the things that's key to falling one of the things that's key to falling asleep sleep each night and replenishing asleep sleep each night and replenishing asleep sleep each night and replenishing our ability to think and make our ability to think and make our ability to think and make predictions is the ability to turn off predictions is the ability to turn off predictions is the ability to turn off thinking. This is why I'm such a fan of thinking. This is why I'm such a fan of thinking. This is why I'm such a fan of what traditionally was called yoga what traditionally was called yoga what traditionally was called yoga nidra, which literally means yoga sleep. nidra, which literally means yoga sleep. nidra, which literally means yoga sleep. Lying down, it's a form of meditation, Lying down, it's a form of meditation, Lying down, it's a form of meditation, as you know, and with breathing, etc. Um as you know, and with breathing, etc. Um as you know, and with breathing, etc. Um I certainly I want to point out that I I certainly I want to point out that I I certainly I want to point out that I have no desire to rename any of these have no desire to rename any of these have no desire to rename any of these ancient practices. These are beautiful ancient practices. These are beautiful ancient practices. These are beautiful practices that have been built up over practices that have been built up over practices that have been built up over thousands of years. The reason I call thousands of years. The reason I call thousands of years. The reason I call sometimes batch yoga nidra with sometimes batch yoga nidra with sometimes batch yoga nidra with so-called NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, is so-called NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, is so-called NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, is that unfortunately that unfortunately that unfortunately both in science and in traditional both in science and in traditional both in science and in traditional cultures around some of these behaviors, cultures around some of these behaviors, cultures around some of these behaviors, the language has become a barrier for the language has become a barrier for the language has become a barrier for people to try them. people to try them. people to try them. I'm not trying to to wash away any of I'm not trying to to wash away any of I'm not trying to to wash away any of the the wonderful culture and tradition the the wonderful culture and tradition the the wonderful culture and tradition around these. I want to be very clear around these. I want to be very clear around these. I want to be very clear about that. But ultimately it's about about that. But ultimately it's about about that. But ultimately it's about accessing a state of mind as for anyone accessing a state of mind as for anyone accessing a state of mind as for anyone that's listened to a yoga nidra script, that's listened to a yoga nidra script, that's listened to a yoga nidra script, and I should say I do nidra every day. I and I should say I do nidra every day. I and I should say I do nidra every day. I have for almost a decade now. It's have for almost a decade now. It's have for almost a decade now. It's without question without question without question along with viewing morning light, along with viewing morning light, along with viewing morning light, sunlight, the most powerful practice I sunlight, the most powerful practice I sunlight, the most powerful practice I think I can recommend anyone. Um it is think I can recommend anyone. Um it is think I can recommend anyone. Um it is about, as you always hear in a classic about, as you always hear in a classic about, as you always hear in a classic nidra script, you move away from nidra script, you move away from nidra script, you move away from thinking and doing to being and feeling. thinking and doing to being and feeling. thinking and doing to being and feeling. Now, what is that? If we take a Now, what is that? If we take a Now, what is that? If we take a neuroscience lens, I mean, what is this neuroscience lens, I mean, what is this neuroscience lens, I mean, what is this thinking and doing, being and feeling? thinking and doing, being and feeling? thinking and doing, being and feeling? It's about shutting down of the It's about shutting down of the It's about shutting down of the prefrontal cortex, which is making prefrontal cortex, which is making prefrontal cortex, which is making predictions, what's happening next, predictions, what's happening next, predictions, what's happening next, right? It as you move into sleep, you right? It as you move into sleep, you right? It as you move into sleep, you enter that kind of liminal state where enter that kind of liminal state where enter that kind of liminal state where things become disjointed, right? A cat things become disjointed, right? A cat things become disjointed, right? A cat flies through the room, and then you flies through the room, and then you flies through the room, and then you might jerk yourself awake and it's kind might jerk yourself awake and it's kind might jerk yourself awake and it's kind of odd, but that's the state of not of odd, but that's the state of not of odd, but that's the state of not thinking and doing and just being and thinking and doing and just being and thinking and doing and just being and feeling, being in one's pure somatic feeling, being in one's pure somatic feeling, being in one's pure somatic experience. So, I would say experience. So, I would say experience. So, I would say in order to move through change, in order to move through change, in order to move through change, designate 20 to 30 minutes each day to designate 20 to 30 minutes each day to designate 20 to 30 minutes each day to put the brain into a state of put the brain into a state of put the brain into a state of non-thinking, non-doing and into a state non-thinking, non-doing and into a state non-thinking, non-doing and into a state of {quote} being and feeling. So, not of {quote} being and feeling. So, not of {quote} being and feeling. So, not making predictions. Now, the tricky making predictions. Now, the tricky making predictions. Now, the tricky thing is when one is stressed, that's thing is when one is stressed, that's thing is when one is stressed, that's especially hard to do. Yeah. And this is especially hard to do. Yeah. And this is especially hard to do. Yeah. And this is why I think what is it Thich Nhat Hanh why I think what is it Thich Nhat Hanh why I think what is it Thich Nhat Hanh said, you know, what is it who said, you said, you know, what is it who said, you said, you know, what is it who said, you know, um know, um know, um when stressed, you know, meditate every when stressed, you know, meditate every when stressed, you know, meditate every day, but when stressed, meditate twice day, but when stressed, meditate twice day, but when stressed, meditate twice as long or something like that, right? as long or something like that, right? as long or something like that, right? >> When I don't think I have time, like >> When I don't think I have time, like >> When I don't think I have time, like that is almost when I need to make the that is almost when I need to make the that is almost when I need to make the time. time. time. >> It's a skill. And so, this ability to >> It's a skill. And so, this ability to >> It's a skill. And so, this ability to turn off thinking enhances one's ability turn off thinking enhances one's ability turn off thinking enhances one's ability to enter sleep, which is vital for to enter sleep, which is vital for to enter sleep, which is vital for mental and physical health, obviously. mental and physical health, obviously. mental and physical health, obviously. Learning, et cetera, for reasons we Learning, et cetera, for reasons we Learning, et cetera, for reasons we discussed. So, develop the ability to discussed. So, develop the ability to discussed. So, develop the ability to deliberately disengage from thinking and deliberately disengage from thinking and deliberately disengage from thinking and doing and do that during periods of low doing and do that during periods of low doing and do that during periods of low stress. Right? 20 to 30 minutes a day, stress. Right? 20 to 30 minutes a day, stress. Right? 20 to 30 minutes a day, even 10 minutes a day of just learning even 10 minutes a day of just learning even 10 minutes a day of just learning teaching oneself and practicing the art teaching oneself and practicing the art teaching oneself and practicing the art of turning off prediction of turning off prediction of turning off prediction is an incredibly valuable skill. is an incredibly valuable skill. is an incredibly valuable skill. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And then the other one is to just >> And then the other one is to just >> And then the other one is to just understand that we're being bombarded understand that we're being bombarded understand that we're being bombarded with contextual change all the time. You with contextual change all the time. You with contextual change all the time. You know, I love Instagram. I teach science know, I love Instagram. I teach science know, I love Instagram. I teach science on Instagram. I see you there daily. Um on Instagram. I see you there daily. Um on Instagram. I see you there daily. Um and so, scrolling on Instagram is an and so, scrolling on Instagram is an and so, scrolling on Instagram is an interesting experience because in 5 interesting experience because in 5 interesting experience because in 5 minutes, you can look at a thousand minutes, you can look at a thousand minutes, you can look at a thousand different contexts. different contexts. different contexts. The human brain has never dealt with The human brain has never dealt with The human brain has never dealt with that kind of change before. Even when that kind of change before. Even when that kind of change before. Even when television, when I was growing up, there television, when I was growing up, there television, when I was growing up, there were three or four good channels, then were three or four good channels, then were three or four good channels, then it went to cable, and then now you get it went to cable, and then now you get it went to cable, and then now you get onto an airplane or something, you got onto an airplane or something, you got onto an airplane or something, you got 240 channels. That's that's a drop in 240 channels. That's that's a drop in 240 channels. That's that's a drop in the bucket compared to what we can get the bucket compared to what we can get the bucket compared to what we can get in in a social media feed. So, I think in in a social media feed. So, I think in in a social media feed. So, I think we just need to be aware that the brain we just need to be aware that the brain we just need to be aware that the brain can work with that. But then, what can work with that. But then, what can work with that. But then, what you're turning on is an ability to walk you're turning on is an ability to walk you're turning on is an ability to walk into a new context and and figure it out into a new context and and figure it out into a new context and and figure it out the statistics. Imagine if if in an the statistics. Imagine if if in an the statistics. Imagine if if in an Instagram feed Instagram feed Instagram feed and I'm not demonizing Instagram. I and I'm not demonizing Instagram. I and I'm not demonizing Instagram. I think they're wonderful. I think they think they're wonderful. I think they think they're wonderful. I think they provide a wonderful resource, truly. But provide a wonderful resource, truly. But provide a wonderful resource, truly. But imagine if we walked out of this room imagine if we walked out of this room imagine if we walked out of this room and it was a completely different and it was a completely different and it was a completely different landscape. It was a jungle. Then we turn landscape. It was a jungle. Then we turn landscape. It was a jungle. Then we turn the corner and go into what I would the corner and go into what I would the corner and go into what I would think was the kitchen and it was the think was the kitchen and it was the think was the kitchen and it was the kitchen of the some, you know, of what kitchen of the some, you know, of what kitchen of the some, you know, of what some Thomas Keller some Thomas Keller some Thomas Keller restaurant in New York. Turn the corner restaurant in New York. Turn the corner restaurant in New York. Turn the corner and all of a sudden we're underwater. and all of a sudden we're underwater. and all of a sudden we're underwater. That's social media. That's social media. That's social media. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And we can cope with that. So >> And we can cope with that. So >> And we can cope with that. So >> meta verse. >> meta verse. >> meta verse. >> So if I think about it that way, then I >> So if I think about it that way, then I >> So if I think about it that way, then I think if we can cope with that, then we think if we can cope with that, then we think if we can cope with that, then we can cope with transitions in can cope with transitions in can cope with transitions in so-called real life with with ease. Now, so-called real life with with ease. Now, so-called real life with with ease. Now, some people have more situational some people have more situational some people have more situational awareness than others. They walk into an awareness than others. They walk into an awareness than others. They walk into an environment and they're sensing all the environment and they're sensing all the environment and they're sensing all the things. Other people walk into an things. Other people walk into an things. Other people walk into an environment and they're very good at environment and they're very good at environment and they're very good at narrowing their attentional spotlight. narrowing their attentional spotlight. narrowing their attentional spotlight. The latter group actually has a bit of The latter group actually has a bit of The latter group actually has a bit of an advantage. They probably wouldn't be an advantage. They probably wouldn't be an advantage. They probably wouldn't be so good as a special operator in the so good as a special operator in the so good as a special operator in the military that has to develop situational military that has to develop situational military that has to develop situational advantage or a police officer or a advantage or a police officer or a advantage or a police officer or a teacher, but they're going to be teacher, but they're going to be teacher, but they're going to be immensely good at one-on-one immensely good at one-on-one immensely good at one-on-one interactions because they can make the interactions because they can make the interactions because they can make the room disappear. room disappear. room disappear. And so both we need both kinds of people And so both we need both kinds of people And so both we need both kinds of people and we all need to learn how to and we all need to learn how to and we all need to learn how to sort of brighten and broaden these sort of brighten and broaden these sort of brighten and broaden these attentional spotlights and narrow them attentional spotlights and narrow them attentional spotlights and narrow them as well. And I'll just briefly say we as well. And I'll just briefly say we as well. And I'll just briefly say we are old world primates, as it turns out, are old world primates, as it turns out, are old world primates, as it turns out, and we have the capacity to do what's and we have the capacity to do what's and we have the capacity to do what's called covert attention. called covert attention. called covert attention. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I can pay attention to you, but I can >> I can pay attention to you, but I can >> I can pay attention to you, but I can also notice that in my periphery there's also notice that in my periphery there's also notice that in my periphery there's something else going on. So I've got two something else going on. So I've got two something else going on. So I've got two spotlights now, but I am dividing my spotlights now, but I am dividing my spotlights now, but I am dividing my attention. We can't do three attention. We can't do three attention. We can't do three simultaneously. But what I can also do simultaneously. But what I can also do simultaneously. But what I can also do is decide to merge those two spotlights is decide to merge those two spotlights is decide to merge those two spotlights and intensify them and narrow the and intensify them and narrow the and intensify them and narrow the aperture of my visual window and my aperture of my visual window and my aperture of my visual window and my auditory window. So we should always auditory window. So we should always auditory window. So we should always think of our as our attention is two think of our as our attention is two think of our as our attention is two spotlights that can be very broad spotlights that can be very broad spotlights that can be very broad or it can be very narrowly focused and or it can be very narrowly focused and or it can be very narrowly focused and then we can overlap them. then we can overlap them. then we can overlap them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think >> And I think >> And I think >> That's fantastic. >> That's fantastic. >> That's fantastic. >> we should all know how to do both. >> we should all know how to do both. >> we should all know how to do both. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> We should learn how to narrow the >> We should learn how to narrow the >> We should learn how to narrow the aperture of our focus, deeply engage, aperture of our focus, deeply engage, aperture of our focus, deeply engage, but also deliberately disengage. And the but also deliberately disengage. And the but also deliberately disengage. And the process of falling asleep that we were process of falling asleep that we were process of falling asleep that we were talking about before is the practice of talking about before is the practice of talking about before is the practice of learning how to take that attentional learning how to take that attentional learning how to take that attentional spotlight, move those two apart, and spotlight, move those two apart, and spotlight, move those two apart, and then then then dip not dim them, but extend the that dip not dim them, but extend the that dip not dim them, but extend the that same luminosity out more broadly, more same luminosity out more broadly, more same luminosity out more broadly, more broadly, and then we're off to sleep. So broadly, and then we're off to sleep. So broadly, and then we're off to sleep. So so it's about deliberate control of the so it's about deliberate control of the so it's about deliberate control of the nervous system. And unfortunately, we nervous system. And unfortunately, we nervous system. And unfortunately, we all know how to focus on something if all know how to focus on something if all know how to focus on something if we're very stressed or excited by it. we're very stressed or excited by it. we're very stressed or excited by it. Most people don't learn how to turn off Most people don't learn how to turn off Most people don't learn how to turn off this focus and learn how to deliberately this focus and learn how to deliberately this focus and learn how to deliberately disengage. And one of my great hopes for disengage. And one of my great hopes for disengage. And one of my great hopes for humanity is that children and adults humanity is that children and adults humanity is that children and adults will learn how to deliberately will learn how to deliberately will learn how to deliberately disengage. Because it benefits sleep, disengage. Because it benefits sleep, disengage. Because it benefits sleep, which benefits mental and physical which benefits mental and physical which benefits mental and physical health. And also, if you think about it, health. And also, if you think about it, health. And also, if you think about it, most of the bad things that we do to most of the bad things that we do to most of the bad things that we do to ourselves and others and that people do ourselves and others and that people do ourselves and others and that people do to one another, most, not all, but most to one another, most, not all, but most to one another, most, not all, but most are from a heightened state of are from a heightened state of are from a heightened state of reactivity where we're just not reactivity where we're just not reactivity where we're just not conscious. conscious. conscious. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And that's because our aperture, our >> And that's because our aperture, our >> And that's because our aperture, our window of attention, is too narrow. window of attention, is too narrow. window of attention, is too narrow. We're not taking into account the full We're not taking into account the full We're not taking into account the full space and time of what we're thinking space and time of what we're thinking space and time of what we're thinking about. about. about. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And as a last point, space and time are >> And as a last point, space and time are >> And as a last point, space and time are linked in the brain. Uh if you have a linked in the brain. Uh if you have a linked in the brain. Uh if you have a narrow visual focus, you tend to have a narrow visual focus, you tend to have a narrow visual focus, you tend to have a narrow time slicing, right? Which makes narrow time slicing, right? Which makes narrow time slicing, right? Which makes sense if you think about like a little sense if you think about like a little sense if you think about like a little kid watching ants on the ground and then kid watching ants on the ground and then kid watching ants on the ground and then gets called in to dinner and all of a gets called in to dinner and all of a gets called in to dinner and all of a sudden the way you batch time is sudden the way you batch time is sudden the way you batch time is different. When you're sleepy, you tend different. When you're sleepy, you tend different. When you're sleepy, you tend to batch things in big blocks. Okay? Or to batch things in big blocks. Okay? Or to batch things in big blocks. Okay? Or when you're bored, big blocks of time. when you're bored, big blocks of time. when you're bored, big blocks of time. When you're very excited, stressed, or When you're very excited, stressed, or When you're very excited, stressed, or happily excited, you're in that fast happily excited, you're in that fast happily excited, you're in that fast frame rate. You've gone from 60 frames frame rate. You've gone from 60 frames frame rate. You've gone from 60 frames per second, which I think is a a typical per second, which I think is a a typical per second, which I think is a a typical smartphone, to 1,000 frames per second. smartphone, to 1,000 frames per second. smartphone, to 1,000 frames per second. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> So you're catching all the micro >> So you're catching all the micro >> So you're catching all the micro nuances, but you're missing everything nuances, but you're missing everything nuances, but you're missing everything else. else. else. >> Mm. And And what I what I find most >> Mm. And And what I what I find most >> Mm. And And what I what I find most interesting about that though is And And interesting about that though is And And interesting about that though is And And I read a study a few years ago, and I I I read a study a few years ago, and I I I read a study a few years ago, and I I don't know if it I don't know I can't don't know if it I don't know I can't don't know if it I don't know I can't remember where it's from, but it it said remember where it's from, but it it said remember where it's from, but it it said something along the lines of that something along the lines of that something along the lines of that today in 24 hours, we're exposed to more today in 24 hours, we're exposed to more today in 24 hours, we're exposed to more tragedy through the news or pain or tragedy through the news or pain or tragedy through the news or pain or stress, whatever word we want to label stress, whatever word we want to label stress, whatever word we want to label that as, than we were in our entire that as, than we were in our entire that as, than we were in our entire lifetime 25 years ago. lifetime 25 years ago. lifetime 25 years ago. >> I believe it's sadly. I I think I have >> I believe it's sadly. I I think I have >> I believe it's sadly. I I think I have to agree. to agree. to agree. >> And And what I found also was that what >> And And what I found also was that what >> And And what I found also was that what you're saying, and I love this idea of you're saying, and I love this idea of you're saying, and I love this idea of we have these two points of focus and we have these two points of focus and we have these two points of focus and bringing it together or bringing it up, bringing it together or bringing it up, bringing it together or bringing it up, which I think is fantastic as as a which I think is fantastic as as a which I think is fantastic as as a visual, too. visual, too. visual, too. There's an element though that really There's an element though that really There's an element though that really draws us in of judgment and criticism. draws us in of judgment and criticism. draws us in of judgment and criticism. Like, I find judgment, I'm using Like, I find judgment, I'm using Like, I find judgment, I'm using judgment as the overall word. Criticism judgment as the overall word. Criticism judgment as the overall word. Criticism is very specific word, but what really is very specific word, but what really is very specific word, but what really makes something harder, like when we're makes something harder, like when we're makes something harder, like when we're processing thousand posts on Instagram, processing thousand posts on Instagram, processing thousand posts on Instagram, the most difficult part is when judgment the most difficult part is when judgment the most difficult part is when judgment comes in, whether it's positive or comes in, whether it's positive or comes in, whether it's positive or negative, because that's what draws you negative, because that's what draws you negative, because that's what draws you in. And I find that we have more things in. And I find that we have more things in. And I find that we have more things to judge. And to make that many to judge. And to make that many to judge. And to make that many judgments in a day is quite exhausting. judgments in a day is quite exhausting. judgments in a day is quite exhausting. And then to be exhausted by the number And then to be exhausted by the number And then to be exhausted by the number of tragic or of tragic or of tragic or stressful moments that we experience. stressful moments that we experience. stressful moments that we experience. And like you said that, you know, it's And like you said that, you know, it's And like you said that, you know, it's okay if we're on Instagram, we're seeing okay if we're on Instagram, we're seeing okay if we're on Instagram, we're seeing multiple things or we're seeing this multiple things or we're seeing this multiple things or we're seeing this kitchen into this animation into this kitchen into this animation into this kitchen into this animation into this world, but when a lot of it is painful world, but when a lot of it is painful world, but when a lot of it is painful to deliberately disengage but remain to deliberately disengage but remain to deliberately disengage but remain connected to reality, I feel like that's connected to reality, I feel like that's connected to reality, I feel like that's somewhere where people feel like they're somewhere where people feel like they're somewhere where people feel like they're in no man's land. in no man's land. in no man's land. >> Yeah. And you know, it's it's a >> Yeah. And you know, it's it's a >> Yeah. And you know, it's it's a particular challenge now with with the particular challenge now with with the particular challenge now with with the number of images and movies that can number of images and movies that can number of images and movies that can come at us. And And come at us. And And come at us. And And you know, I think that uh you know, I think that uh you know, I think that uh here I I here I I here I I I'm not one to to usually talk like I'm not one to to usually talk like I'm not one to to usually talk like this, but I think much of a building a this, but I think much of a building a this, but I think much of a building a good life is about both honoring and good life is about both honoring and good life is about both honoring and challenging the asymmetries of our challenging the asymmetries of our challenging the asymmetries of our nervous system. What I mean by that is, nervous system. What I mean by that is, nervous system. What I mean by that is, you know, everything we've talked about you know, everything we've talked about you know, everything we've talked about up until now are up until now are up until now are wired into us from birth. We have wired into us from birth. We have wired into us from birth. We have dopamine, epinephrine, the circuitry we dopamine, epinephrine, the circuitry we dopamine, epinephrine, the circuitry we can attentional spotlight. That all we can attentional spotlight. That all we can attentional spotlight. That all we show up in the world with that and we show up in the world with that and we show up in the world with that and we and we have to work with them. We also and we have to work with them. We also and we have to work with them. We also need to acknowledge that there is an need to acknowledge that there is an need to acknowledge that there is an asymmetry to learning. You know, before asymmetry to learning. You know, before asymmetry to learning. You know, before we talked about the gap effects and we talked about the gap effects and we talked about the gap effects and that's two-stage process of that's two-stage process of that's two-stage process of neuroplasticity. There are exceptions. neuroplasticity. There are exceptions. neuroplasticity. There are exceptions. The exception is learning of negative The exception is learning of negative The exception is learning of negative things. You only have to touch the hot things. You only have to touch the hot things. You only have to touch the hot stove once or the meta- stove once or the meta- stove once or the meta- metaphorically speaking, the hot stove metaphorically speaking, the hot stove metaphorically speaking, the hot stove only has to touch you once before it only has to touch you once before it only has to touch you once before it changes you. So, there's one-trial changes you. So, there's one-trial changes you. So, there's one-trial learning of negative experiences. Now, learning of negative experiences. Now, learning of negative experiences. Now, once we understand that asymmetry and once we understand that asymmetry and once we understand that asymmetry and once we understand that negativity once we understand that negativity once we understand that negativity actually has a bit of a stronghold on actually has a bit of a stronghold on actually has a bit of a stronghold on our nervous system, our nervous system, our nervous system, then we accept I would hope we'd accept then we accept I would hope we'd accept then we accept I would hope we'd accept the idea that then we have to work a the idea that then we have to work a the idea that then we have to work a little harder to counter that or maybe a little harder to counter that or maybe a little harder to counter that or maybe a lot harder in the same way that lot harder in the same way that lot harder in the same way that so-called highly palatable foods so-called highly palatable foods so-called highly palatable foods >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. >> which is now because kind of science >> which is now because kind of science >> which is now because kind of science geek speak for unhealthy highly geek speak for unhealthy highly geek speak for unhealthy highly processed foods cuz there's some, you processed foods cuz there's some, you processed foods cuz there's some, you know, I do love fruits and vegetables know, I do love fruits and vegetables know, I do love fruits and vegetables and all that. And there's some wonderful and all that. And there's some wonderful and all that. And there's some wonderful baked goods. Let's face it. I mean, I baked goods. Let's face it. I mean, I baked goods. Let's face it. I mean, I love croissants. So, I don't want to love croissants. So, I don't want to love croissants. So, I don't want to demonize highly palatable demonize highly palatable demonize highly palatable >> Yeah, highly palatable foods. But but I >> Yeah, highly palatable foods. But but I >> Yeah, highly palatable foods. But but I think we could all do well to eat think we could all do well to eat think we could all do well to eat healthier foods and they are not as healthier foods and they are not as healthier foods and they are not as rewarding in the short term as some of rewarding in the short term as some of rewarding in the short term as some of these highly palatable foods, right? And these highly palatable foods, right? And these highly palatable foods, right? And especially to the young nervous system, especially to the young nervous system, especially to the young nervous system, you know, there's you know, a a you know, there's you know, a a you know, there's you know, a a milkshake or or a um milkshake or or a um milkshake or or a um candy just tastes better to these kids candy just tastes better to these kids candy just tastes better to these kids than vegetables than vegetables than vegetables >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> for reasons that are hardwired into the >> for reasons that are hardwired into the >> for reasons that are hardwired into the nervous system. But we know that kids nervous system. But we know that kids nervous system. But we know that kids need their fruits and vegetables need their fruits and vegetables need their fruits and vegetables probably more than they need candy. probably more than they need candy. probably more than they need candy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> So, >> So, we have to all learn to counter these we have to all learn to counter these we have to all learn to counter these built-in asymmetries in our nervous built-in asymmetries in our nervous built-in asymmetries in our nervous system. And as adults, we probably system. And as adults, we probably system. And as adults, we probably thought we had it made, but then now thought we had it made, but then now thought we had it made, but then now we're bombarded with all this negative we're bombarded with all this negative we're bombarded with all this negative imagery. And so, the key is really imagery. And so, the key is really imagery. And so, the key is really the symbols that we were talking about the symbols that we were talking about the symbols that we were talking about earlier. To really build in positive earlier. To really build in positive earlier. To really build in positive symbols and internal symbolic symbols and internal symbolic symbols and internal symbolic representations. What I mean by that, representations. What I mean by that, representations. What I mean by that, not just physical things in our not just physical things in our not just physical things in our environment and people, but also how we environment and people, but also how we environment and people, but also how we hold those things inside is so hold those things inside is so hold those things inside is so important. I think this is what comes to important. I think this is what comes to important. I think this is what comes to this notion of intentions. It's work, this notion of intentions. It's work, this notion of intentions. It's work, right? Right life and right action and right? Right life and right action and right? Right life and right action and all these things that we hear about, all these things that we hear about, all these things that we hear about, it's work. It's It's working against the it's work. It's It's working against the it's work. It's It's working against the tide that is pulling us toward tide that is pulling us toward tide that is pulling us toward negativity. That's Um in fact, there's a negativity. That's Um in fact, there's a negativity. That's Um in fact, there's a study that was done in the '60s. It was study that was done in the '60s. It was study that was done in the '60s. It was published in the journal Science. It's published in the journal Science. It's published in the journal Science. It's an excellent journal that apex journals an excellent journal that apex journals an excellent journal that apex journals had people with stimulating electrodes had people with stimulating electrodes had people with stimulating electrodes in their brain for reasons related to in their brain for reasons related to in their brain for reasons related to neurosurgery. These people could neurosurgery. These people could neurosurgery. These people could stimulate multiple areas of their brain stimulate multiple areas of their brain stimulate multiple areas of their brain one at a time. And then they reported one at a time. And then they reported one at a time. And then they reported how they felt. So that the the human how they felt. So that the the human how they felt. So that the the human would stimulate and they'd feel drunk. would stimulate and they'd feel drunk. would stimulate and they'd feel drunk. Or they'd stimulate another area and Or they'd stimulate another area and Or they'd stimulate another area and they'd feel happy. They'd stimulate they'd feel happy. They'd stimulate they'd feel happy. They'd stimulate another area they'd feel sad. The another area they'd feel sad. The another area they'd feel sad. The fascinating we learned a lot about the fascinating we learned a lot about the fascinating we learned a lot about the human brain from these studies. The human brain from these studies. The human brain from these studies. The brain area that people preferred to brain area that people preferred to brain area that people preferred to stimulate the most, this is really going stimulate the most, this is really going stimulate the most, this is really going to upset a few people, was the one that to upset a few people, was the one that to upset a few people, was the one that led to anger and frustration. led to anger and frustration. led to anger and frustration. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And you think to yourself, well, that's >> And you think to yourself, well, that's >> And you think to yourself, well, that's just terrible. Are we just doomed, just terrible. Are we just doomed, just terrible. Are we just doomed, right? right? right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No. What turns out that anger and >> No. What turns out that anger and >> No. What turns out that anger and frustration is a signal to the brain and frustration is a signal to the brain and frustration is a signal to the brain and body that you need to do something in body that you need to do something in body that you need to do something in response to that. Usually move away or response to that. Usually move away or response to that. Usually move away or move forward and and sort of enter an move forward and and sort of enter an move forward and and sort of enter an aggressive state. aggressive state. aggressive state. Knowing that Knowing that Knowing that >> trained, right? That's uh like habit. >> trained, right? That's uh like habit. >> trained, right? That's uh like habit. Like that's always there. Like that's always there. Like that's always there. >> comes through in habit. I think this is >> comes through in habit. I think this is >> comes through in habit. I think this is why people I spend more time um on why people I spend more time um on why people I spend more time um on Instagram than I do on other social Instagram than I do on other social Instagram than I do on other social media platforms. But listen, I I'm not media platforms. But listen, I I'm not media platforms. But listen, I I'm not embarrassed to say you go on Twitter and embarrassed to say you go on Twitter and embarrassed to say you go on Twitter and it's a more combative zone. It's just it's a more combative zone. It's just it's a more combative zone. It's just the nature of the beast there. So more the nature of the beast there. So more the nature of the beast there. So more combative zone. In part cuz there are a combative zone. In part cuz there are a combative zone. In part cuz there are a lot of academics on there. lot of academics on there. lot of academics on there. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Uh it's more combative. So I notice if I >> Uh it's more combative. So I notice if I >> Uh it's more combative. So I notice if I log on to Twitter, I already get a log on to Twitter, I already get a log on to Twitter, I already get a little bit of an adrenaline surge. It's little bit of an adrenaline surge. It's little bit of an adrenaline surge. It's like, all right, you're ready to fight. like, all right, you're ready to fight. like, all right, you're ready to fight. And just knowing that we have this And just knowing that we have this And just knowing that we have this innate bias towards frustration and innate bias towards frustration and innate bias towards frustration and anger and that kind of friction, anger and that kind of friction, anger and that kind of friction, hopefully my wish is that it will allow hopefully my wish is that it will allow hopefully my wish is that it will allow people to relax around that. And to people to relax around that. And to people to relax around that. And to realize, ah, this is sort of like the realize, ah, this is sort of like the realize, ah, this is sort of like the food that I immediately want to reach food that I immediately want to reach food that I immediately want to reach for, that's the kind of dopamine signal for, that's the kind of dopamine signal for, that's the kind of dopamine signal that you were talking about early on, that you were talking about early on, that you were talking about early on, but how am I going to feel afterwards? but how am I going to feel afterwards? but how am I going to feel afterwards? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> How am I going to feel afterwards? And I >> How am I going to feel afterwards? And I >> How am I going to feel afterwards? And I would say that 99% of online would say that 99% of online would say that 99% of online interactions where people end up in interactions where people end up in interactions where people end up in these ridiculous battles, later both these ridiculous battles, later both these ridiculous battles, later both parties probably think, well, how did I parties probably think, well, how did I parties probably think, well, how did I get wrapped up in that? get wrapped up in that? get wrapped up in that? >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> That's absolutely crazy. You know, you >> That's absolutely crazy. You know, you >> That's absolutely crazy. You know, you think you're scoring slam dunks on each think you're scoring slam dunks on each think you're scoring slam dunks on each other at the time, but it's ridiculous. other at the time, but it's ridiculous. other at the time, but it's ridiculous. So, I think the thing to understand is So, I think the thing to understand is So, I think the thing to understand is that we have these asymmetries, that we have these asymmetries, that we have these asymmetries, but that we can learn to work with them. but that we can learn to work with them. but that we can learn to work with them. The way that a really The way that a really The way that a really I think a really incredible I think a really incredible I think a really incredible psychiatrist, he's done a lot of work on psychiatrist, he's done a lot of work on psychiatrist, he's done a lot of work on trauma, Paul Conti, describes it trauma, Paul Conti, describes it trauma, Paul Conti, describes it in a different context, is that um and in a different context, is that um and in a different context, is that um and but and he's like in to my mind the but and he's like in to my mind the but and he's like in to my mind the expert on trauma and just has done expert on trauma and just has done expert on trauma and just has done beautiful work, is that it's like those beautiful work, is that it's like those beautiful work, is that it's like those little kids toys where there's a little little kids toys where there's a little little kids toys where there's a little ball bearing moving around in a maze. He ball bearing moving around in a maze. He ball bearing moving around in a maze. He described this to me. So, this is all described this to me. So, this is all described this to me. So, this is all Paul Conti, he's an MD and this is his Paul Conti, he's an MD and this is his Paul Conti, he's an MD and this is his work, not my his words. work, not my his words. work, not my his words. You know, You know, You know, there are times in which we are like there are times in which we are like there are times in which we are like that game where just a slight shift and that game where just a slight shift and that game where just a slight shift and all of a sudden the ball bearing goes all of a sudden the ball bearing goes all of a sudden the ball bearing goes down the down the down the >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> chute. And what we should all be >> chute. And what we should all be >> chute. And what we should all be striving for is for, you know, slightly striving for is for, you know, slightly striving for is for, you know, slightly concave and for it to kind of maybe move concave and for it to kind of maybe move concave and for it to kind of maybe move around a bit with the with the with the around a bit with the with the with the around a bit with the with the with the events of life and what we hear and see. events of life and what we hear and see. events of life and what we hear and see. That's what we should be striving That's what we should be striving That's what we should be striving toward. And that takes work. Some people toward. And that takes work. Some people toward. And that takes work. Some people are naturally there, but very few people are naturally there, but very few people are naturally there, but very few people are naturally there. But this is the are naturally there. But this is the are naturally there. But this is the power of meditation. This is the power power of meditation. This is the power power of meditation. This is the power of non-sleep deep rest. This is the of non-sleep deep rest. This is the of non-sleep deep rest. This is the power of good sleep or most nights. This power of good sleep or most nights. This power of good sleep or most nights. This is the power of excellent social is the power of excellent social is the power of excellent social relationships. This is the power of relationships. This is the power of relationships. This is the power of mindsets and intentions. That stuff, mindsets and intentions. That stuff, mindsets and intentions. That stuff, gratitude practices, none of that stuff gratitude practices, none of that stuff gratitude practices, none of that stuff is weak. All of that stuff acts as a is weak. All of that stuff acts as a is weak. All of that stuff acts as a kind of a a foundation from which we can kind of a a foundation from which we can kind of a a foundation from which we can approach things and go, "Yeah, the approach things and go, "Yeah, the approach things and go, "Yeah, the impulse is to get pretty upset about impulse is to get pretty upset about impulse is to get pretty upset about that, but I'm going to lean away from that, but I'm going to lean away from that, but I'm going to lean away from that." Very hard to do when we're not that." Very hard to do when we're not that." Very hard to do when we're not tending to that those foundational tending to that those foundational tending to that those foundational elements. Actually quite easy to do over elements. Actually quite easy to do over elements. Actually quite easy to do over time because it gives us the time because it gives us the time because it gives us the perspective. And um perspective. And um perspective. And um I think that if we understand that we're I think that if we understand that we're I think that if we understand that we're being bombarded with this, it's like being bombarded with this, it's like being bombarded with this, it's like being at a buffet of junk food. being at a buffet of junk food. being at a buffet of junk food. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But understanding that somewhere in that >> But understanding that somewhere in that >> But understanding that somewhere in that buffet is really nutritious food, and buffet is really nutritious food, and buffet is really nutritious food, and that's what we should be aiming for. And that's what we should be aiming for. And that's what we should be aiming for. And learning to kind of override the the learning to kind of override the the learning to kind of override the the natural signals of "Ooh, I really want natural signals of "Ooh, I really want natural signals of "Ooh, I really want that, and I really want that." by that, and I really want that." by that, and I really want that." by thinking about exactly what you said thinking about exactly what you said thinking about exactly what you said earlier, which is how am I going to feel earlier, which is how am I going to feel earlier, which is how am I going to feel afterwards? afterwards? afterwards? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And what what's that? That's dilating >> And what what's that? That's dilating >> And what what's that? That's dilating our perception of time. We're getting our perception of time. We're getting our perception of time. We're getting out of that slave to dopamine mode, and out of that slave to dopamine mode, and out of that slave to dopamine mode, and we're starting to think about "No, I'm we're starting to think about "No, I'm we're starting to think about "No, I'm not going to let dopamine control me. not going to let dopamine control me. not going to let dopamine control me. I'm going to control dopamine." And I'm going to control dopamine." And I'm going to control dopamine." And that's powerful. that's powerful. that's powerful. >> Yeah. I I I What that sparks for me is >> Yeah. I I I What that sparks for me is >> Yeah. I I I What that sparks for me is also this idea that I've also this idea that I've also this idea that I've been in love with for a while is been in love with for a while is been in love with for a while is fragility and strength, and how not fragility and strength, and how not fragility and strength, and how not being exposed to something doesn't being exposed to something doesn't being exposed to something doesn't protect you, but it makes you weaker. protect you, but it makes you weaker. protect you, but it makes you weaker. >> It absolutely does. And you know, >> It absolutely does. And you know, >> It absolutely does. And you know, nowadays there's a big interest in nowadays there's a big interest in nowadays there's a big interest in so-called dopamine fasts. I I think they so-called dopamine fasts. I I think they so-called dopamine fasts. I I think they have their place. You know, if people have their place. You know, if people have their place. You know, if people have been have been engaging in things have been have been engaging in things have been have been engaging in things that are high dopamine-evoking that are high dopamine-evoking that are high dopamine-evoking behaviors, there is a place for this. behaviors, there is a place for this. behaviors, there is a place for this. This is one of the routes to sobriety. This is one of the routes to sobriety. This is one of the routes to sobriety. Beautiful work by my colleague at Beautiful work by my colleague at Beautiful work by my colleague at Stanford, uh Dr. Anna Lembke. She wrote Stanford, uh Dr. Anna Lembke. She wrote Stanford, uh Dr. Anna Lembke. She wrote Dopamine Nation. Incredible book about Dopamine Nation. Incredible book about Dopamine Nation. Incredible book about dopamine in the context of addiction, dopamine in the context of addiction, dopamine in the context of addiction, but all kinds of addiction. Uh she talks but all kinds of addiction. Uh she talks but all kinds of addiction. Uh she talks about this. There is a role for dopamine about this. There is a role for dopamine about this. There is a role for dopamine fasts. Really moving away from intensely fasts. Really moving away from intensely fasts. Really moving away from intensely pleasurable activities for about 30 days pleasurable activities for about 30 days pleasurable activities for about 30 days is necessary for some people to reset. is necessary for some people to reset. is necessary for some people to reset. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it's naive for any of us to think >> But it's naive for any of us to think >> But it's naive for any of us to think that then you go back into the world and that then you go back into the world and that then you go back into the world and you're not being bombarded with you're not being bombarded with you're not being bombarded with temptation of different kinds. I've been temptation of different kinds. I've been temptation of different kinds. I've been The whole idea is to bring the system The whole idea is to bring the system The whole idea is to bring the system back into balance so that you can notice back into balance so that you can notice back into balance so that you can notice the subtle inflections, right? I guess the subtle inflections, right? I guess the subtle inflections, right? I guess the the the meditators and yogis, I the the the meditators and yogis, I the the the meditators and yogis, I always loved the language they use would always loved the language they use would always loved the language they use would be that the kind of subtle After be that the kind of subtle After be that the kind of subtle After meditation, you can notice the kind of meditation, you can notice the kind of meditation, you can notice the kind of subtle ripples in life, right? Whereas, subtle ripples in life, right? Whereas, subtle ripples in life, right? Whereas, if you're just hard charging all the if you're just hard charging all the if you're just hard charging all the time, you miss so much. Again, I'm using time, you miss so much. Again, I'm using time, you miss so much. Again, I'm using the wrong language here. the wrong language here. the wrong language here. >> Yeah, beautiful. >> Yeah, beautiful. >> Yeah, beautiful. >> But I think that um so, dopamine fasts >> But I think that um so, dopamine fasts >> But I think that um so, dopamine fasts have their place, but better to have have their place, but better to have have their place, but better to have your hands on the steering wheel, your hands on the steering wheel, your hands on the steering wheel, accelerator, and brake of all these accelerator, and brake of all these accelerator, and brake of all these mechanisms. And to go through It's only mechanisms. And to go through It's only mechanisms. And to go through It's only when, you know, the car has been wrecked when, you know, the car has been wrecked when, you know, the car has been wrecked that it needs to go into the repair that it needs to go into the repair that it needs to go into the repair shop. Most of us don't need a dopamine shop. Most of us don't need a dopamine shop. Most of us don't need a dopamine fast. We need to understand how dopamine fast. We need to understand how dopamine fast. We need to understand how dopamine works. We need to do exactly what you works. We need to do exactly what you works. We need to do exactly what you described earlier, which is to extend described earlier, which is to extend described earlier, which is to extend the time domain, so that we think about, the time domain, so that we think about, the time domain, so that we think about, "Am I getting dopamine later also, or is "Am I getting dopamine later also, or is "Am I getting dopamine later also, or is this just a quick up-and-down kind of this just a quick up-and-down kind of this just a quick up-and-down kind of event?" Then I think we can move through event?" Then I think we can move through event?" Then I think we can move through life in a much more adaptive way. life in a much more adaptive way. life in a much more adaptive way. >> And then you mentioned, obviously, when >> And then you mentioned, obviously, when >> And then you mentioned, obviously, when we talk about my relationships, you we talk about my relationships, you we talk about my relationships, you know, we talked about how dopamine is know, we talked about how dopamine is know, we talked about how dopamine is there at the beginning, but then we talk there at the beginning, but then we talk there at the beginning, but then we talk about serotonin and oxytocin, these about serotonin and oxytocin, these about serotonin and oxytocin, these inner feelings, which I love that inner feelings, which I love that inner feelings, which I love that description also of like how dopamine is description also of like how dopamine is description also of like how dopamine is this pursuit of external things, and this pursuit of external things, and this pursuit of external things, and oxytocin and serotonin are more about oxytocin and serotonin are more about oxytocin and serotonin are more about how we feel what we have. I think that how we feel what we have. I think that how we feel what we have. I think that was a another great visual, and I love was a another great visual, and I love was a another great visual, and I love how you speak in symbols more than you how you speak in symbols more than you how you speak in symbols more than you know. Like there, you know, it's know. Like there, you know, it's know. Like there, you know, it's I really Everything you've been sharing I really Everything you've been sharing I really Everything you've been sharing today, I can visualize it, and I really today, I can visualize it, and I really today, I can visualize it, and I really enjoy visual learning, and so when you enjoy visual learning, and so when you enjoy visual learning, and so when you were speaking earlier about how you can were speaking earlier about how you can were speaking earlier about how you can visualize a symbol even if you don't visualize a symbol even if you don't visualize a symbol even if you don't have it physically, and even when you have it physically, and even when you have it physically, and even when you said that to me, I'm like, "Oh, that's said that to me, I'm like, "Oh, that's said that to me, I'm like, "Oh, that's really fascinating that dopamine is really fascinating that dopamine is really fascinating that dopamine is that, oxytocin and serotonin is this." that, oxytocin and serotonin is this." that, oxytocin and serotonin is this." With oxytocin and serotonin, With oxytocin and serotonin, With oxytocin and serotonin, we know that a lot of the habits you we know that a lot of the habits you we know that a lot of the habits you just mentioned, they are what create just mentioned, they are what create just mentioned, they are what create this balance, right? So, the reason why this balance, right? So, the reason why this balance, right? So, the reason why people are talking about decreasing people are talking about decreasing people are talking about decreasing dopamine, I guess, is because we've dopamine, I guess, is because we've dopamine, I guess, is because we've noticed that dopamine is shooting noticed that dopamine is shooting noticed that dopamine is shooting through the roof, and often what we do through the roof, and often what we do through the roof, and often what we do for oxytocin oxytocin and serotonin are for oxytocin oxytocin and serotonin are for oxytocin oxytocin and serotonin are not really that balanced across the not really that balanced across the not really that balanced across the board. board. board. Uh what are Let's look at relationships Uh what are Let's look at relationships Uh what are Let's look at relationships and go, "Is there a need to have and go, "Is there a need to have and go, "Is there a need to have dopamine in long-term relationships, or dopamine in long-term relationships, or dopamine in long-term relationships, or are serotonin and oxytocin enough?" And are serotonin and oxytocin enough?" And are serotonin and oxytocin enough?" And not just relationships, that applies to not just relationships, that applies to not just relationships, that applies to career, it applies applies to career, it applies applies to career, it applies applies to everything, I feel. everything, I feel. everything, I feel. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um there's a wonderful >> Yeah, absolutely. Um there's a wonderful >> Yeah, absolutely. Um there's a wonderful book about this, written by a book about this, written by a book about this, written by a psychoanalyst in a slightly different psychoanalyst in a slightly different psychoanalyst in a slightly different context. The book um the title of the context. The book um the title of the context. The book um the title of the book is Can Love Last? And and it's an book is Can Love Last? And and it's an book is Can Love Last? And and it's an interesting book. The It's operates on interesting book. The It's operates on interesting book. The It's operates on the premise that when we first meet the premise that when we first meet the premise that when we first meet somebody and we want this in the context somebody and we want this in the context somebody and we want this in the context of romantic relationship and we desire of romantic relationship and we desire of romantic relationship and we desire romantic relationship with them, it's romantic relationship with them, it's romantic relationship with them, it's very much about objectification of the very much about objectification of the very much about objectification of the other person. And I don't mean other person. And I don't mean other person. And I don't mean objectification in the traditional objectification in the traditional objectification in the traditional sense, but we don't rely on them yet. sense, but we don't rely on them yet. sense, but we don't rely on them yet. Right? We only rely on the ability to Right? We only rely on the ability to Right? We only rely on the ability to pursue and get them, right? Or for them pursue and get them, right? Or for them pursue and get them, right? Or for them to for us to pursue them, however it to for us to pursue them, however it to for us to pursue them, however it Or exactly. But we don't rely on them Or exactly. But we don't rely on them Or exactly. But we don't rely on them for safety at all. If that evolves to for safety at all. If that evolves to for safety at all. If that evolves to become a become a become a romantic relationship, right? With romantic relationship, right? With romantic relationship, right? With trust, then what happens is there's a trust, then what happens is there's a trust, then what happens is there's a true dependency there. If one person true dependency there. If one person true dependency there. If one person were to leave for any reason, die or were to leave for any reason, die or were to leave for any reason, die or leave or cheat or break up, it is truly leave or cheat or break up, it is truly leave or cheat or break up, it is truly devastating to the safety mechanisms of devastating to the safety mechanisms of devastating to the safety mechanisms of the brain and body, right? It's a the brain and body, right? It's a the brain and body, right? It's a reactivation actually of a lot of the reactivation actually of a lot of the reactivation actually of a lot of the machinery that was designed for machinery that was designed for machinery that was designed for attachment between infant and parent, attachment between infant and parent, attachment between infant and parent, right? As it just as an important aside, right? As it just as an important aside, right? As it just as an important aside, the all the work on attachment that was the all the work on attachment that was the all the work on attachment that was done by Bowlby and Main and others in done by Bowlby and Main and others in done by Bowlby and Main and others in psychology of taking deliberately taking psychology of taking deliberately taking psychology of taking deliberately taking babies away from their mothers and then babies away from their mothers and then babies away from their mothers and then reuniting them and evaluating the reuniting them and evaluating the reuniting them and evaluating the responses, batching them into different responses, batching them into different responses, batching them into different All that circuitry isn't lost as we grow All that circuitry isn't lost as we grow All that circuitry isn't lost as we grow up, it's repurposed for romantic up, it's repurposed for romantic up, it's repurposed for romantic attachment. There's no question about attachment. There's no question about attachment. There's no question about that. No question about that. We just that. No question about that. We just that. No question about that. We just operate in the different domains of operate in the different domains of operate in the different domains of anxiety becomes about waiting for a text anxiety becomes about waiting for a text anxiety becomes about waiting for a text message as opposed to, you know, mother message as opposed to, you know, mother message as opposed to, you know, mother to come back in the room or or nursing, to come back in the room or or nursing, to come back in the room or or nursing, etc. etc. etc. So, same circuitry reapplied. So, same circuitry reapplied. So, same circuitry reapplied. As we advance into relationships, we As we advance into relationships, we As we advance into relationships, we become more dependent on people, but become more dependent on people, but become more dependent on people, but the idea in that it's touched on quite a the idea in that it's touched on quite a the idea in that it's touched on quite a lot in this book Can Love Last is that lot in this book Can Love Last is that lot in this book Can Love Last is that there is a need from time to time in there is a need from time to time in there is a need from time to time in some relationships to bring the dopamine some relationships to bring the dopamine some relationships to bring the dopamine element back in. Now, certain cultures element back in. Now, certain cultures element back in. Now, certain cultures have actually built this in in a very have actually built this in in a very have actually built this in in a very strategic way of actually having men and strategic way of actually having men and strategic way of actually having men and women not physically contact one another women not physically contact one another women not physically contact one another for several weeks out of each month in for several weeks out of each month in for several weeks out of each month in order to maintain the kind of {quote} order to maintain the kind of {quote} order to maintain the kind of {quote} excitement of a relationship. Nowadays, excitement of a relationship. Nowadays, excitement of a relationship. Nowadays, we tend to have this model of we tend to have this model of we tend to have this model of lover and best friend and sometimes even lover and best friend and sometimes even lover and best friend and sometimes even business partner, right? business partner, right? business partner, right? >> Literally. >> Literally. >> Literally. >> Which for some people can work and for >> Which for some people can work and for >> Which for some people can work and for other people can quash all the other people can quash all the other people can quash all the excitement, right? It really depends. excitement, right? It really depends. excitement, right? It really depends. And especially nowadays where people are And especially nowadays where people are And especially nowadays where people are working a lot more from home, there working a lot more from home, there working a lot more from home, there isn't a tendency for people to spend isn't a tendency for people to spend isn't a tendency for people to spend much time apart and to miss one another. much time apart and to miss one another. much time apart and to miss one another. Missing one another, the yearning for Missing one another, the yearning for Missing one another, the yearning for the other person is a beautiful thing. the other person is a beautiful thing. the other person is a beautiful thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's a painful but beautiful thing. What >> It's a painful but beautiful thing. What >> It's a painful but beautiful thing. What is that yearning? That yearning is the is that yearning? That yearning is the is that yearning? That yearning is the pain of the lack of dopamine and pain of the lack of dopamine and pain of the lack of dopamine and serotonin. I actually just came back serotonin. I actually just came back serotonin. I actually just came back from a a trip and we were visiting a from a a trip and we were visiting a from a a trip and we were visiting a couple friends of ours and they said it couple friends of ours and they said it couple friends of ours and they said it was very beautiful. They said they've was very beautiful. They said they've was very beautiful. They said they've been together a long time. They said been together a long time. They said been together a long time. They said that they've had three nights apart in that they've had three nights apart in that they've had three nights apart in their entire relationship. their entire relationship. their entire relationship. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And one of them got sick during that >> And one of them got sick during that >> And one of them got sick during that time apart and I thought, that's time apart and I thought, that's time apart and I thought, that's beautiful. Now, for some people, that's beautiful. Now, for some people, that's beautiful. Now, for some people, that's a beautiful model. For other people, a beautiful model. For other people, a beautiful model. For other people, that would be excessive and it actually that would be excessive and it actually that would be excessive and it actually could eliminate a a number of the could eliminate a a number of the could eliminate a a number of the positive neurochemical features of the positive neurochemical features of the positive neurochemical features of the relationship. relationship. relationship. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And there's a lot of variation around >> And there's a lot of variation around >> And there's a lot of variation around this. So, dopamine is required to this. So, dopamine is required to this. So, dopamine is required to quote-unquote re-up quote-unquote re-up quote-unquote re-up >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> the excitement in a relationship. How is >> the excitement in a relationship. How is >> the excitement in a relationship. How is that achieved? Well, dopamine is the that achieved? Well, dopamine is the that achieved? Well, dopamine is the molecule, as you recall, of reward molecule, as you recall, of reward molecule, as you recall, of reward prediction or of novelty. So, doing prediction or of novelty. So, doing prediction or of novelty. So, doing things that are not expected is great. things that are not expected is great. things that are not expected is great. Routine is great for serotonin and Routine is great for serotonin and Routine is great for serotonin and oxytocin. Predictability, routine, oxytocin. Predictability, routine, oxytocin. Predictability, routine, predictability, same thing. Safety, predictability, same thing. Safety, predictability, same thing. Safety, routine, predictability, routine, predictability, routine, predictability, serotonin, oxytocin system, no question serotonin, oxytocin system, no question serotonin, oxytocin system, no question about it. about it. about it. Dopamine is the neurochemical of novelty Dopamine is the neurochemical of novelty Dopamine is the neurochemical of novelty and pursuing new things. So, for couples and pursuing new things. So, for couples and pursuing new things. So, for couples that are very set in their ways and feel that are very set in their ways and feel that are very set in their ways and feel very safe and homey together, wonderful, very safe and homey together, wonderful, very safe and homey together, wonderful, but creating ways in which they miss one but creating ways in which they miss one but creating ways in which they miss one another or creating new experiences for another or creating new experiences for another or creating new experiences for them to kind of re-up the dopamine in them to kind of re-up the dopamine in them to kind of re-up the dopamine in the relationship can have a a the relationship can have a a the relationship can have a a tremendously positive effect. And I look tremendously positive effect. And I look tremendously positive effect. And I look forward to a day where neuroscience is forward to a day where neuroscience is forward to a day where neuroscience is actually incorporated into relationship actually incorporated into relationship actually incorporated into relationship design in an intelligent and and design in an intelligent and and design in an intelligent and and respectful way that there are respectful respectful way that there are respectful respectful way that there are respectful meaning that there are differences. meaning that there are differences. meaning that there are differences. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> But we see a lot that people will just >> But we see a lot that people will just >> But we see a lot that people will just go out and get a new relationship, go out and get a new relationship, go out and get a new relationship, right? I'm of the mind that unless, you right? I'm of the mind that unless, you right? I'm of the mind that unless, you know, it's there it's dangerous know, it's there it's dangerous know, it's there it's dangerous situation, better to probably avoid situation, better to probably avoid situation, better to probably avoid divorce, right? divorce, right? divorce, right? Um certainly for sake of children. Some Um certainly for sake of children. Some Um certainly for sake of children. Some I've heard, of course, that divorces can I've heard, of course, that divorces can I've heard, of course, that divorces can rescue relationships, too. I understand rescue relationships, too. I understand rescue relationships, too. I understand there's a lot of nuance, but I think there's a lot of nuance, but I think there's a lot of nuance, but I think everyone would prefer, emotionally, everyone would prefer, emotionally, everyone would prefer, emotionally, financially, etc., to be able to be in a financially, etc., to be able to be in a financially, etc., to be able to be in a great relationship for a long period of great relationship for a long period of great relationship for a long period of time. time. time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, I think that >> And so, I think that >> And so, I think that understanding that the the push-pull understanding that the the push-pull understanding that the the push-pull between dopamine and serotonin is key. between dopamine and serotonin is key. between dopamine and serotonin is key. And just to remember that missing And just to remember that missing And just to remember that missing someone, yearning for someone, is the someone, yearning for someone, is the someone, yearning for someone, is the anticipation of how great it's going to anticipation of how great it's going to anticipation of how great it's going to feel when together. feel when together. feel when together. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> I think that that could that could go a >> I think that that could that could go a >> I think that that could that could go a long way. And also for people that get long way. And also for people that get long way. And also for people that get very, very, very excited about the new very, very, very excited about the new very, very, very excited about the new person, the new thing, person, the new thing, person, the new thing, just be wary that not everyone's just be wary that not everyone's just be wary that not everyone's dopamine system works the same way. dopamine system works the same way. dopamine system works the same way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, learn to temper the excitement >> And so, learn to temper the excitement >> And so, learn to temper the excitement if you're an excitable person. if you're an excitable person. if you're an excitable person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And >> And >> And uh and I would say learn to ramp up the uh and I would say learn to ramp up the uh and I would say learn to ramp up the excitement a little bit if you're excitement a little bit if you're excitement a little bit if you're somebody who's not so easily somebody who's not so easily somebody who's not so easily overwhelmed. overwhelmed. overwhelmed. >> Andrew, you've been so kind, gracious >> Andrew, you've been so kind, gracious >> Andrew, you've been so kind, gracious with your time. Uh with your time. Uh with your time. Uh I am I am I am you know, I I've always known how you know, I I've always known how you know, I I've always known how phenomenally intelligent and and smart phenomenally intelligent and and smart phenomenally intelligent and and smart and sharp and and sharp and and sharp and deeply studied you are, but I'm really deeply studied you are, but I'm really deeply studied you are, but I'm really grateful I got to experience your heart grateful I got to experience your heart grateful I got to experience your heart today in so many ways. And uh to me that today in so many ways. And uh to me that today in so many ways. And uh to me that that beautiful synergy you have is is is that beautiful synergy you have is is is that beautiful synergy you have is is is really uh meaningful to me to really uh meaningful to me to really uh meaningful to me to experience. I'm I'm so grateful to you experience. I'm I'm so grateful to you experience. I'm I'm so grateful to you for being here, for taking the time, for for being here, for taking the time, for for being here, for taking the time, for For me, we've been in touch for a couple For me, we've been in touch for a couple For me, we've been in touch for a couple of years, maybe even it's been all, you of years, maybe even it's been all, you of years, maybe even it's been all, you know, through messaging, but to really know, through messaging, but to really know, through messaging, but to really experience you in full today has been experience you in full today has been experience you in full today has been been a treat for me. Uh we end every On been a treat for me. Uh we end every On been a treat for me. Uh we end every On Purpose episode with a final five. These Purpose episode with a final five. These Purpose episode with a final five. These have to be answered in one word to one have to be answered in one word to one have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. sentence maximum. sentence maximum. >> Uh which which for this academic might >> Uh which which for this academic might >> Uh which which for this academic might be a bit of a challenge. be a bit of a challenge. be a bit of a challenge. >> hard, but we will try. So, Andrew >> hard, but we will try. So, Andrew >> hard, but we will try. So, Andrew Huberman, these are your final five. Uh Huberman, these are your final five. Uh Huberman, these are your final five. Uh the first question is, what is the best the first question is, what is the best the first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received in any area advice you've ever received in any area advice you've ever received in any area of life. of life. of life. >> Know thyself. >> Know thyself. >> Know thyself. >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> The oracle said that and it's absolutely >> The oracle said that and it's absolutely >> The oracle said that and it's absolutely true. We have to be good scientists of true. We have to be good scientists of true. We have to be good scientists of ourselves ourselves ourselves and understand where we have and understand where we have and understand where we have talents, competency, talents, competency, talents, competency, and/or challenges and then work with and/or challenges and then work with and/or challenges and then work with those. those. those. >> Beautiful. All right, second question. >> Beautiful. All right, second question. >> Beautiful. All right, second question. What is the worst advice you've ever What is the worst advice you've ever What is the worst advice you've ever received or had? received or had? received or had? >> That everything is just experience. You >> That everything is just experience. You >> That everything is just experience. You know, the idea that all experiences are know, the idea that all experiences are know, the idea that all experiences are equivalent. Um I would love to think equivalent. Um I would love to think equivalent. Um I would love to think that um that um that um all our steps lead us to enlightenment all our steps lead us to enlightenment all our steps lead us to enlightenment kind of thing, but we have I do believe kind of thing, but we have I do believe kind of thing, but we have I do believe that we or at least I need to be far that we or at least I need to be far that we or at least I need to be far more intentional than that and that we more intentional than that and that we more intentional than that and that we can be. can be. can be. >> Beautiful. Uh question number three. >> Beautiful. Uh question number three. >> Beautiful. Uh question number three. What is something that you didn't value What is something that you didn't value What is something that you didn't value before, but you've learned to value now? before, but you've learned to value now? before, but you've learned to value now? >> Almost embarrassed to say it, but um >> Almost embarrassed to say it, but um >> Almost embarrassed to say it, but um family. You know, I've relied very family. You know, I've relied very family. You know, I've relied very heavily on friendship as a deep source heavily on friendship as a deep source heavily on friendship as a deep source of uh of uh reinforcement in my life. of uh of uh reinforcement in my life. of uh of uh reinforcement in my life. I've leaned hard into that for many, I've leaned hard into that for many, I've leaned hard into that for many, many decades. Um many decades. Um many decades. Um I think in recently I've become quite I think in recently I've become quite I think in recently I've become quite moved by the the supports within my moved by the the supports within my moved by the the supports within my family that I did hadn't realized that family that I did hadn't realized that family that I did hadn't realized that uh really set me up so well to um to do uh really set me up so well to um to do uh really set me up so well to um to do what I want to do in life. what I want to do in life. what I want to do in life. >> Beautiful. Love hearing that. Uh >> Beautiful. Love hearing that. Uh >> Beautiful. Love hearing that. Uh question number four. What's the first question number four. What's the first question number four. What's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night? thing you do at night? thing you do at night? >> First thing I do in the morning is get >> First thing I do in the morning is get >> First thing I do in the morning is get outside and get sunlight. And if the sun outside and get sunlight. And if the sun outside and get sunlight. And if the sun isn't up, I flip on all the lights and isn't up, I flip on all the lights and isn't up, I flip on all the lights and then I go get sunlight. Also drink a then I go get sunlight. Also drink a then I go get sunlight. Also drink a glass of water. Before I go to sleep at glass of water. Before I go to sleep at glass of water. Before I go to sleep at night, night, night, >> yoga nidra? You don't do that at night. >> yoga nidra? You don't do that at night. >> yoga nidra? You don't do that at night. You do it in the morning. You do it in the morning. You do it in the morning. >> I actually I think about those three >> I actually I think about those three >> I actually I think about those three people I was talking about before. people I was talking about before. people I was talking about before. I do. Every night. I just think about I do. Every night. I just think about I do. Every night. I just think about them. I don't know. It's been a long them. I don't know. It's been a long them. I don't know. It's been a long time now. That accumulated over several time now. That accumulated over several time now. That accumulated over several decades and um decades and um decades and um yeah, I think about them every night. yeah, I think about them every night. yeah, I think about them every night. >> Love that. >> Love that. >> Love that. >> I don't even think to do it. It just I >> I don't even think to do it. It just I >> I don't even think to do it. It just I just do it. just do it. just do it. >> I was just trying to Yeah, I've I've a I >> I was just trying to Yeah, I've I've a I >> I was just trying to Yeah, I've I've a I lost one of mine mentors. The others are lost one of mine mentors. The others are lost one of mine mentors. The others are still alive right now. One of them is still alive right now. One of them is still alive right now. One of them is stage four brain cancer and just couple stage four brain cancer and just couple stage four brain cancer and just couple of years ago. of years ago. of years ago. And I I when you said that I was like, And I I when you said that I was like, And I I when you said that I was like, yeah, I I know yeah, know that feels yeah, I I know yeah, know that feels yeah, I I know yeah, know that feels like. So, yeah. All right. like. So, yeah. All right. like. So, yeah. All right. Fifth and final question. If you could Fifth and final question. If you could Fifth and final question. If you could create one law or set one habit that create one law or set one habit that create one law or set one habit that everyone had to do every day for the everyone had to do every day for the everyone had to do every day for the rest of their life, what would it be? I rest of their life, what would it be? I rest of their life, what would it be? I think I know what it's going to be, but think I know what it's going to be, but think I know what it's going to be, but I'll have to ask you. I'll have to ask you. I'll have to ask you. >> Well, since most people will assume it's >> Well, since most people will assume it's >> Well, since most people will assume it's sunlight viewing, I'll just I'll just sunlight viewing, I'll just I'll just sunlight viewing, I'll just I'll just assume they're doing that anyway. assume they're doing that anyway. assume they're doing that anyway. I would I would I would die a happy person if people would adopt die a happy person if people would adopt die a happy person if people would adopt a practice a practice a practice of of of learning to deliberately calm down. learning to deliberately calm down. learning to deliberately calm down. Whether or not through non-sleep Whether or not through non-sleep Whether or not through non-sleep depressed or a couple deep breaths, um depressed or a couple deep breaths, um depressed or a couple deep breaths, um find a tool because I really believe find a tool because I really believe find a tool because I really believe that much of the misfortune and pain of that much of the misfortune and pain of that much of the misfortune and pain of life could be avoided if people learned life could be avoided if people learned life could be avoided if people learned to calm down. I also know that there's a to calm down. I also know that there's a to calm down. I also know that there's a lot more joy to access when we do.