How To Turn Your Pain Into Greatness - Bugzy Malone (4K)

Brand-new modern wisdom much goes live this Friday. Look at this beautiful doing the thing angel We've got first ever death metal design sleeveless t-shirt and a hoodie this awesome high country ranch thing that we've got This snake design which I love wisdom nation world tour Wisdom coffee and much more sign up at MW much calm now to be the first person to get access What's the difference between making it and maintaining it? I think the difference is We Advertise to write a lot as as kids so coming up to me I seen a lot of nice clothes lamborghinis Lifestyles that appeared To sort of be people have made in life So we're sort of programmed into Trying to get there. I Think once you get there and There's a whole maintenance Situation that nobody's talking about. Yeah, and you're not prepared for I think that's why so many people So shoot up and plateau and fall off. Mm-hmm, because it's not advertised that It's tough all the way through You gotta be the best version of yourself all the way through It's not just make it kick your feet or and I'm relaxed I Think the total addressable market for people who want advice on how to make it Versus the people who want advice on how to maintain it is basically a ten thousand to one hundred thousand to one, right? Almost everybody is not yet where they want to be financially in terms of status in terms of recognition or admiration or respect by people that they respect and because of that it means That if you're looking at the world of advice most people are still on the climb as opposed to trying to maintain the altitude that they've got to and that means yeah that almost all of the pieces of Goodwill and sage archetype mythology is about you getting to the top not about what happens when you get there I'm kind of fascinated about the difference between someone who never makes it and someone who's fallen off and the pain and the The way that that's interpreted huh, that person never actually made it to the top as opposed to The boxer or the rapper or the movie star that did had it all in their hands and then let it go No wonder which one's more painful it's such an interesting concept one because You when we last spoke he was like where's your head that how have you been and that's something that I'm sort of addressing at a minute and And Where is the top right and I think what a lot of people do is Maybe in the Bible it says a lover of silver will never be content with silver something along them lines and What I've recently figured out is that like I'm content I've really got everything I ever wanted and more And I think if you're not careful, what sort of happens is you're tricked into thinking that you need more Hmm, and I think they're the people that get into trouble Yeah, no, they're trying to impress other people. They want validation They want people to pat them on the back. I think when you get into a place where You don't need nobody to pat you on the back don't need nobody's validation you actually strip it back to who am I what my experiences of this planet and And so recently I've understood that like I come from really humble beginnings, man you know, that's a sort of it's been an interesting process making this album because I sort of told myself if If I can't be more vulnerable I'm more honest than I've been before I Make something that's of a higher quality than what I've made before I'm not gonna do it and I was serious about her so I had to go through a process of like stripping it back and When I spent some sort of time in my mind At the beginning of my life It dawned on me that like I've got everything I ever wanted and so You know Which sort of starts a different direction? you know and why what I see is people that have got like a number in the head and Material things That he told themselves he'll get and now because they've identified with being somebody that doesn't quit they have to get there Mmm understand and I Don't think any of that's real I think it's a an insecurity you must overcome I Had a Navy SEAL on the podcast guy called Andy Stumpf and he's now a Big podcaster. I think he's done 10,000 skydives in his career Unbelievably accomplished. I think he holds some world records for maybe base jumping or Wingsuit gliding or something like that. So like a very extreme human But does it all with a lot of humor? It's like a he's one of those people who very lethal very trained But does it with a smile on their face which makes them feel to me more disturbing the fact that you do it with? that sense of Sort of gallows humor to me is like holy shit like you're really scary. Anyway, he's telling me this story He'd created his entire life identity around being a person that doesn't quit right this is who I am I'm a Navy SEAL. I do not quit. I do not give up. I do not leave my guys behind. I push through selection training Firefights anything everything I don't quit that's what I've built my identity around But the don't quit muscle had also caused him to stay in a very toxic marriage for 15 years Well, I'm the guy that doesn't quit is that well Sometimes that skill of not quitting of not giving up of continuing to push through of denying your emotions How you feel pushing that to one side? Can actually be something that is not a performance enhancer But it's a constraint and I came up with this line when he was talking to me Which is what you are praised for in public You often pay for in private Mm-hmm. What are the prices of the things that you have built you've Constructed this very unique version of yourself Navy SEAL rapper person who's overcoming challenges of childhood. Okay But what's the cost of doing that as well? Yeah, and nobody wants to talk about that the cost Yeah, so so again recently I've I've understood that like It sort of cost me anyway everything because We don't understand when you're looking up essentially a new world you know if you're coming from real poverty real dysfunction and where you propose to get to is a functional place and a an affluent place And Something's got a gift and these parts of yourself that have to die and there's a whole life that you identified with that's gotta die and Death death is always violent rights. Never gentle song when you talk about sort of paying the cost I Relate. Yeah. Yeah, and I think Now that I've quote-unquote made it and The dust starts to sell with where you're actually up to and I recently had a family member pass away and it's a heavy one because He would drink a lot And there was some drugs involved And when I when I was young I would look up to him he would he would be the guy that like I was trying to be like him And then life got on top of him We had a fallout and you sort of see where it's going and you sort of grieving That relationship in advance. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, because you know, yeah, yeah alcoholism Any of these vices There are train crash waiting to happen. They're a slow burn though, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think Relationships are somewhat similar sort of You have this sense that it's over Between you and a partner that it's not going to work the sort of the writing is on the wall But you're still on the train car, so to speak and you can slowly see this thing coming toward you and it's this odd kind of Perspective grief. Mm-hmm, you know, you're thinking about the future grief that you're going to feel in the moment It's like you're taking regret from the future and bringing it down into the present Anticipating that it's about to arrive and um, i've had People in my life that have taken their own lives And one of my longest friends did only a couple of months ago in dubai. Yeah, uh, I mean He was always an extreme individual, but uh, he decided that the way that he was going to end it was to throw himself off the 60th floor of a building that That wasn't a surprise To people it wasn't a surprise as much as everyone loved him and He had like the one of the biggest funerals that you can think of I don't think that that many people were surprised saddened distraught like destroyed by this wonderful guy not being here anymore, but He kind of saw it coming as well like oh fuck what does that mean? And then there's the guilt of like well, if you could see it coming, how couldn't you step in to fix something? Yeah. No Yeah I think there's only so much you can do Yeah, I think there's only so much you can do Yeah, I think there's only so much you can do And I think that's the top and bottom of it is is In the end you gotta be responsible for yourself, you know This position that I found myself in comes with a lot of um people asking for advice People relating people being inspired by almost feels like my purpose to to acquire this However, i've got to be the best version of myself There's only so much externally I can do So to me, it feels like the journey is always an internally You know and it's sad and it hurts However, that's these are the realities of life You know, and it's not until you sort of take that on board that you sort of take your own life More seriously More seriously, you know, and that's the conclusion I came to can can you Stop an alcoholic from drinking. Yeah I'm, just a man Can you can you stop? Somebody that's suicidal from jumping I'm, not god You know, all I can do is be the best version of myself and hope that that rubs off in a positive way Can we talk about your childhood if you like? Yeah For the people that don't know what Growing up for you was like What was that like what were the formative experiences that sort of Made you into who you became. Yeah, just complex really I think the more I sort of look back And understand it from an adult perspective there was just a lot of complexities going on in there that like, um Create confusion and as people were confused anyway, right? You go from being a boy to a teenager. That's confusing and from a teenager to a man. That's confusing You start adding in some dysfunctional characters some crime some deaths some murders and What i've recently sort of understood is You sort of lose you lose confidence in in your place in society because you don't feel like you fit You know, you sort of know things and you've sort of seen things That go against the norms that go against what people Think is reality, you know what like I mean if we if we What like I mean if we if we go sort of go to my Early days of Being interested In being a villain for a living Because that was sort of the example that i'd seen You know the coolest individual i'd ever seen Was a very well-paid criminal And You come from tough beginnings And and you're looking for a job description, right So in sort of trying to get my education in that world in that area you stumble across some colorful characters, man and you meet a man that's murdered people and Not being convicted And he's at large And he's just in the community Prior to him meeting his His own sort of violent demise he You start to see that like What people think it is it's not There is a world outside of the parameters of What people are calling normal? And it's really there and it really exists. I always saw used to As a kid i'd watch harry potter, right and then And that's got an interesting sort of similarity in that like You've got what they call the muggles The humans the the normal people and then there's the wizarding world, but the separate but you gotta go on platform nine and what is it, three quarters and run through the wall at the right angle to sort of be immersed into the wizarding world. And that's what the underbelly is like. It's just a whole different ball game with a different set of rules. When did you first get exposed to that? That's what I'm saying. That's why it's complex, because I think my mum sort of seen it coming and was trying to shield me from it, which sort of meant I was under-prepared, if you like. And then it's just happening. It's just turning up. That's like Harry Potter when the letters are coming through the door and he's like, what are them letters? And they're hiding them from him, because they know there's a world that you're sort of inheriting that we're trying to shield you from. It's just turning up. And it was like that for me. So you go from sort of very normal to a man has been murdered in your uncle's house where you'll go and stay at the weekends, but you're a kid, so no one's having that conversation with you. You just sort of getting exposed to it naturally. That's confusing, because then you'll go to your friend's house to play football in his living room with a little soft football. And you start seeing that like your world's completely different to mine. The way you talk about your family is completely different to the way I'm hearing my family spoke about. And in fact, when your mom gets home, she gives you that look as if to say, why have you got him here? So you start, you're not fitting in nowhere, right? And there's two ways of looking at that. You can look at it with the cup half empty or half full. And the more I delve into my faith, the more I sort of understand that like special people on the planet get challenged early doors. It's all a challenge to sort of anchor you in faith and strength, determination. So there's been many a time that I've sort of felt like a victim, like why was I exposed to these things? And then eventually sort of come to terms with the fact that it was given to me because I can handle it. It's an interesting quirk of childhood that when you get exposed to things, nobody explains why they're happening. You're right, it's just like osmosis. You're around this particular type of function or dysfunction, this type of love or this type of abandonment, this type of belonging or this type of isolation. And all of these things just sort of happen. And because you don't have perspective, because you're a kid, you just think, well, this is what life is. This is how a family works, or this is how a mom and a dad talk to each other. It's an interesting point, brother. You've really got to go and get your education on that. As an individual in the world, I see so many people that have sort of taken for granted where they started, right? And let's say their father is an alcoholic and he beats them up. And that's their understanding of love. And they might be internally fighting that because they sort of know it's wrong. But then you get imposter syndrome because they feel like, I'm sort of raised by a man that hits a woman and treats kids bad. And you really just got to get into the world. And that's why music, my sort of motto was be inspired, is be inspired. You got to sort of look at greatness and high-performing individuals, responsible individuals, accountable individuals, and just take bits, learn bits, and understand what it is to be a man, I would say. But it's not just men, it's being a good human being. And then you got to sort of detach. You got to detach from the negative examples that you've been shown, that they don't define you. So fascinating, when people start to do healing work or reflection or therapy or delve into their own origins, there's so many little pitfalls. It's kind of amazing that anybody ever makes it out of their own childhood challenges by reflecting on them without being completely destroyed because there's so many ways that you can go, that thing happened to me, therefore I'm a victim. That thing happened to me, therefore I should be bitter. That thing happened to me, therefore I should repeat it in my life. That thing happened to me, therefore I shouldn't be able to work as hard or I shouldn't be able to get as far. There's so many ways that deciding to finally face what happened when you were younger, whether it's big or small, whether it's traumatic with a capital T or with a small t, so many different ways that that could be interpreted in later life as a justification for you railing against the world or not being a good person or being a good person, but wrapping your entire identity up about something that happened to you when you were 11 or 12 or 15. It's kind of amazing that anybody makes it through adult life healed without being taken away by what happened to them when they were a kid. Yeah, I think it's the pattern of the universe, man. If we were to use an analogy of a boxing coach, I think what God's sort of doing is putting you in the exact situation. That is gonna create resilience in you for the challenges you're gonna have to go through in sort of parenthood or your career or seeking your purpose, basically. I think that's all it comes down to. I think each individual has a purpose of some description. And if we do use the analogy of a coach, when a boxing trainer puts you in a spa, and this has happened to me, puts you in a spa with a guy that can whoop your ass, you don't understand that until you get the benefits later down the line. He sort of put you in that situation because he knew it was just enough for you to handle. And the adversity that you have to face on that day is gonna be exactly what you need to sort of gain the skills, to sort of take you to the next level. I had a situation with a guy. He happened to commit suicide. Rest in peace. And he was a good boxer, man. He was a good boxer from where I'm from. A little villain he was. And a little bit older than me, and I'd sort of been in and around the boxing gym for a couple of years, my coach liked me because I'm a student type character. And he threw me in with this guy. And I remember thinking he's a bit good for me. And he was beating me up, pillar to post. And here's an interesting one about belief. Because when I was getting beaten up, I just couldn't believe I could lace this guy's boots. And I remember after a couple of rounds, my coach said, remember the uppercut we've been working on? Jab and step back and then uppercut. I'm just doing as I'm told, right? So then I get back in, we get into it. I do the jab, I take that step back, I throw the uppercut and the guy bites his tongue in half. Blood everywhere, spark called off, right? And in that moment, what I sort of took from boxing is that same belief that my coach had in me about my ability and what I was actually capable of. I had to learn to have it myself in order to actually attain success. Yeah, no, and that was probably the heaviest lesson I learned in boxing. Because it was because of that coach, an elderly man called Brian Hughes, I'll say his name as much as I can, just because he had such a profound impact in my life. But the way he was able to see things in me, I couldn't see them in myself. And it took me many years to understand that like, oh, like belief, faith is a journey that you've got to walk by yourself. A quick aside, running out of a product is a pretty good test of how much you actually like it. Do you order more or just get on with your life? I've kept coming back to Element for more than half a decade and it's the first thing that I drink every single morning for good reason, reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, helps to optimize brain health and regulate your appetite. But, mate, you can't hit me. I'm like Neo, I feel the difference when I take it versus when I don't. Of the two of us here, only one of us is fully hydrated and that is because I've been taking Element. No sugar, no junk, no artificial ingredients. And that's why it's used by everyone, from Dr. Andrew Huberman to the Olympic athletes and sniper teams, the good sniper teams, not the bad ones. And they have a no questions asked refund policy. So if you buy this and for any reason you don't like it, they'll just give you your money back. Plus, they offer free shipping in the United States. Right now, get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or by heading to drinklment.com slash modern wisdom. That's drinklment.com slash fucking modern wisdom. Good duck, well played. There's an idea called Solomon's paradox. Solomon's paradox is that we are much better at giving advice to other people than we are at giving it to ourselves. And you have a friend that's going through a difficult relationship and you tell them precisely the sort of loving, caring, encouraging, reassuring, motivational thing that they need to hear and it's pithy and beautiful and memorable. And also the exact thing that you need to hear yourself. We're much better at giving advice to other people. But I wonder if there's an equivalent here with regards to self-belief for a lot of people that sometimes we are much better at believing in other people than we are believing in ourselves. That we can often see in our friends and the people around us and maybe even just the people that we respect and admire a type of resilience and capacity and talent that they can't see in themselves. And maybe your goal in life should be to try and find as many friends as possible who believe in you more than you believe in you. I'm gonna disagree. Yeah, I think it's harder. I think it's a harder path. I think the actual challenge of life is removing all crutches that you're leaning on. Entire self-reliance. Yeah, get to that place and then you've got something to offer to friends as opposed to being reliant on friends' opinions of you. Because as human beings, we've all got a persona, right? So that means sometimes that people say they believe, but deep down when they go home and take the mask off, they're like, you can't really do that. And that will have an effect. That's there in the vibration of that person. Do you think that part of that worldview comes from growing up in an environment where you couldn't rely on anybody? This level of extreme self-sufficiency? Interesting, man, because I think the closer you can get to the dark side of life, the more realism you're exposed to. How so? You see it for what it really is. You see human nature for what it really is. A lot of people are acting, man. You know the Scarface scene where he says, say goodnight to the bad guy. Never gonna see a bad guy like this again. And he starts to sort of address the people in the room and what he's saying is, is you've not got the guts to be who you wanna be. And the more I reflect on that sort of scene and the more I take acting serious and dialogue, what he's basically saying there is that like, all of you are savages, man, it's human nature. But you've learned to hide yourself. You've learned to fit into society. When there was a time on the planet when like all the laws and rules and regulations weren't in place. And that's when you've seen what man is really like. If you look at a lot of the wars where people are from one side of the world and they go to another side of the world, they attack everybody there. They steal everything from that land. You know, this is what human nature really sort of looks like so I guess to answer your question, what I'm saying is, sometimes violence, dysfunction, sort of chaos, is a people being themselves, a people living the most honest version of their existence. Not everybody is a good person. Not everybody's learned restraint. So that doesn't mean that the darkness doesn't exist. It's sort of a part of the polarity of life, the bigger picture of what's going on. Isn't it interesting that as a civilized society, a big part of the game is people being noble, calm, socially aware humans. Sophisticated savages. Yeah. And keeping themselves, keeping their truth hidden. We would sooner somebody lie and be destroyed. domesticated than be honest and dangerous. That's kind of how society is held together. Hey, behave yourself. There is a type of decorum and behavior that's mostly acceptable here. But yeah, maybe that's part of the reason that mafia boss stories and true crime killers and heroes are both on the good side and the bad side. What's so alluring about them is that it appears to be someone who is being themselves, unashamedly being themselves for better and for worse. We're taught that as kids, right? If you're three years old and a kid gets on your nerves and you slap him in his face, you get told off by an adult. Don't do that. That's outside of the norm. That's outside of what's accepted. And you quite quickly put into line. And what's interesting to go back to your question before about my childhood or my job description now is that I've experienced lots of freedom. I've been outside of the curriculum system at a point when everybody else was taking exams. I've been outside of work at the early phases of people getting the first job and doing the first couple of years. And it creates a freedom in your mind that can be drawn out of a person. When you're told about all these rules and regulations. Now, if with discipline, you learn self-restraint and you become a good person off your own back, you develop your own morals and principles. What you've got that other people don't have is a sort of a freedom of thought. They've been within the curriculum system and within fitting into society in order to get a job. And if we strain themselves, I find that tough about the industry. I'm really from a place where the liars are lying from their essence. These are some of the most talented liars on the planet. Some of the most charismatic and sort of fluid thieves on the planet. So when you turn up to me from a record label and you went to school and you behaved yourself, you might've done some drugs when you was younger or whatever, but you've been a good person and you went to university and you've climbed the ladder and you found yourself in this job description that means you want to sort of exploit someone for their artistic creations and strike a deal with them. Your lies stand out to me as robotic, uncharismatic. You want to meet a scouser and see the way that they can steal or sell something. Unsophisticated deception. Yeah, you get to these sort of corporate lies and I struggle with it because I can sort of see it coming a mile off. And for them, they've compartmentalized it because it's their job and what they're thinking is, yeah, but outside of my job, I'm actually a really nice person. When I go home with my family and friends, I'm honest, I'm cool. But what you've done is you've accepted a job description that means that you're putting a smile on, trying to take more off the table than you're putting on. And for me, that doesn't sit well. And I think that's why being independent, staying independent and sort of climbing the ladder has been my path. What does ignore discreditation mean? Yes, it is like in that particular instance, I'm talking about the fact that when you get into the underbelly, there's certain things you have to get under your belt to be deemed as credible. Again, if we use the Harry Potter analogy, you're a credible wizard. When you then transition over to being completely legitimate and having morals and principles, then people are sort of stayed in the darkness will sort of try and discredit the realism of your story or who you say you are or what it is that you say that you've lived through. You're no longer a part of this. I just don't believe in it. And I think, by the way, I think that can happen to anybody. I'm sure that you get into where you've got to in life has came with many a person trying to just discredit you for what you are, who you are, what you've become through all the challenges that you've endured, you know, and just try and take away from all of that as if what's happening here is luck. So it's not, I was using it in its particular, but it's not particular. I think it's just the mindset of the sort of victimhood person towards a person that is no longer identifies with being a victim. I think they'll discredit you. And I think the psychology behind that is how have they done it? Why has it happened for him? Why is Chris's podcast blown up? Right. And because they can't justify that in their head, they'll just discredit everything you've ever done. Well, it closes the gap. You know, anyone that makes progress throws into sharp contrast, the lack of progress by the people around them for sure. And that's uncomfortable. There's a bunch of sort of male subcultures on the internet that don't like the word ascending. So if you're struggling to get a girl and somebody in this community manages to even get a relationship or get a kiss or whatever, even if the barista at Starbucks that her eyes linger a little bit longer on them than they think they should do, maybe she might be a little bit interested, that's seen as kind of being persona non grata inside of the community. And the reason is that if you ascend, if you become a person who's a fake cell as opposed to an in-cell, so in-cell, involuntary celibate, fake cell, you weren't one of us anyway, what it means is if this person is able to be very close to me in terms of construction and worries and concerns and maybe disfigurement or height or charisma or setbacks or financial status or whatever it might be, but is able to get to a place that at one point in the past I wanted to, but have since given up on, that now still leaves the doorway open for hope and for aspiration. And that means that if I'm not getting there, that might be on my shoulders. And I think that that microcosm is what happens broadly when anyone that comes from an area where lots of people would love to get out of it to ascend in one form or another, maybe it's a dysfunctional northern town in the UK, maybe it's a sports team that lots of people had the opportunity to get started in, but if one person that you used to play football with goes on to become a pro, oh, well, you know, his parents had more money than mine, or the coach liked him more than they did me, or he was a suck-up, whatever. The ability to try and discredit the legitimacy of someone's progress reduces the distance between the person who didn't make it and the person that did by saying that it was unfair, or they cheated, they sold out, they aren't that talented, whatever, they got lucky, as opposed to going, fuck, what should I learn? How can I try and deconstruct the path that was taken there? And yeah, for sure, lots of people manage to make it through fortune, and serendipity, and unfairness, or nepotism, or favours, all of that stuff happens, but I think far less than people actually think. Yeah, I think my career has allowed me to heal publicly and talk about some of the things that I've been sort of learning on my journey, sort of share it with people, and so I try and take things down to the essence, and I think the word there is accountability, ruthless accountability, and I think when a person struggles to be accountable, that's what it looks like, you know, and so I'm almost tricking the audience in that a guy listening to me might be 13 years old and he's not really that interested in healing, he actually doesn't know how broken he's going to be later on down the line, when trauma sort of sets in and takes a hold, but just the sort of phrase to be inspired, if you sort of take that on and take it seriously, it will change your outlook on the guy that became a professional footballer, and you'll admit to yourself, do you know what, when he was trying, I wasn't, when he was doing the runs, when he was doing the extra stretching, when he was watching and studying the game, I wasn't even interested, I was chilling, and that's why he's a professional footballer and I'm on the streets chilling with my mates, at least then you get the opportunity to pick someone else and go again, you know, and that's what accountability will do, it will tell you the truth, you know, and that's what I'm interested in, and that's why rap music as a job description is tough, because for you to tell the truth about your life experience pisses a lot of people off, man. Why? Because you sort of can't help but tell parts of their story that they don't want light shining on, you know, and you can be as respectful as you as you want, try to be as respectful as you want, or you can be as brash as you want, but you will end up telling other people's stories, I think Martin Scorsese talks about that in the films that he makes, and a lot of his inspiration comes from early, it might be New York, sort of mob culture, and he said a lot of people was upset with him because naturally his inspiration was the things he really seen, right, but what to us is Robert De Niro having an argument in the street, in his world is some real person somewhere that's like, Martin, I know you, I'll be telling my story to the world, you know, and I'm sure it's the same for a Guy Ritchie, a Tarantino, these artists and storytellers, the best stories are true, you know, I'm real and honest. 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Right now you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. You flinched, you flinched. Head to livemomentous.com slash modern wisdom and use the code modern wisdom at checkout for 35% off your subscription, that's l-i-v-e-m-o-m-e-n-t-o-u-s dot com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. F**k you, you flinched. You used the word vulnerability earlier on, what's your relationship like with vulnerability? A heavy one because it's something that you're always... Vulnerability is like a guy that's stood there with his fists up ready to throw punches at you. You're nervous, you don't want to go anywhere near this guy, he looks big and strong, you can tell it's going to hurt and it's your job to get closer and closer and eventually go and have the fight, go and face it head on. It's just something that as bravery sets in, courage, in my instance of hopelessness, you hit rock bottom, you realise that you're not as cool as you thought you were and you ain't got nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. You're too tired to run from it, so you just get into the fight, you just stand in the face of the truth and you just and in order to do that you have to be vulnerable, you have to be open to embarrassment. And yeah, so that's been my experience and I think with making this album I've really had to go there man and I think in going there you see yourself in a way that might not be as glamorous as you'd like for it to be. What did you learn? That I'm just a human being man, I think I thought, I think to be successful early does, you think a lot of yourself because you're just trying to get your head around like how did that happen you know you know and you think more of yourself than you actually are and then there comes a point where you see yourself for what you actually are and you're like oh you know so yeah i guess i learned that um the work paid off the consistency paid off the standing back up after getting knocked down paid off but i'm nobody special do you know i mean like i'm not above people because my results have came in sooner than this you know was there a moment or formative experience that was the beginning of that honesty truthfulness self-reflection vulnerability like inflection point was there something that sort of spurred that on or did it accumulate over time just just the um the the solitude of walking the path while i was making the album we was using the analogy of the tunnel and what was basically saying in the studio is that like success the place that you see yourself getting to is like a tunnel between you and that place and you're in your starting point dysfunction whatever it is for you as an individual and then there's this tunnel you think yeah i'm brave enough to take that you'll run into this tunnel everybody else stays behind because they think it's dark i'm not going in there there's a point halfway through the tunnel where you're being ridiculed by the way by the people that didn't go in they weren't brave enough to go into the tunnel but they're shouting and calling you names they're trying to scare you out of it and there's a point where you sort of look back and you did you can no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel that way but now you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel that way and then you step on the on the bones and the remains of the people that failed before you in the tunnel you start to realize you're in sort of dark territory and it might not happen and at that point what do you do do you freeze and try and go backwards or do you keep a steady nerve and keep marching forwards which is all that you can do you know until eventually you can see light at the end of the tunnel and eventually you get to your destination and that tunnel is the reason that is the difference between individuals like yourself that get it over the line and individuals that stay at the beginning of the tunnel shouting in and ridiculing you hoping that you fall hoping that you're not brave enough to keep walking forward now i use that analogy to sort of talk about the isolation and the solitude that happens in the tunnel because you you lose a world that you're familiar with you lose a type of an individual that you're familiar with you understand you relate to and there's a long period between going from where you were to where it is that you're gonna go that you'll be isolated and in and in solitude and i think that for me was the sort of pivotal point where i was like oh i have to have this fight i have to face all of my insecurities and all of my fears head-on you know and i think that unlocks a version of you that people can no longer pull down you know there's a line from bedros cullion he says your haters are out there holding their breath waiting for you to fail make sure they suffocate oh there you go they have no choice other than to suffocate because yeah and and when i when i talk about the brutal honesty at the bar at the bottom i've met some of the most honest people i've i've ever met and then you get into the corporate world and you meet a guy in a suit and you think this is it i'm around some affluent people now like high integrity high integrity and it's just not the way it is just villains with slightly nicer suits just villains with slightly nicer suits yeah man they've learned to hide themselves man yeah yeah it's interesting it's really interesting i know exactly what you mean there's there's something more kind of noble about the yeah i'm the bad guy i'm dressed in black i've got a balaclava in my pocket as opposed to the dude that's got a patek philippe on and is smiling at you as he tries to get you to sign this particular contract there you go there you go and and and that being said it means i am educated and the reason that i talk like that is because you sort of come from the bottom and you don't feel like you belong when you're in a room full of people that went to university wow what's that like right but it's like actually my education's the real one because we're all in the same world right and then you start understanding that actually i'm ahead my intuition's much stronger than yours my sense of reality is much stronger than yours you know and and that being said that's that's what i'm trying to do through music i'm sure i'll go over into acting and sort of give an account of myself but through music i try and give an account of myself that makes people understand their own strength their own power you know that that just because somebody may have started in a position where it was better than the position you started in it doesn't mean anything man you've been given the challenges that you need to take you to that's quite profound actually last time i was on your show i was talking about like the law of attraction my opinion on that has changed slightly okay tell me about the law of attraction the more that my faith strengthens the more the more i have an understanding of god the more i sort of feel as if we're sort of co-creators in that you will see the way that your life's gonna go i'm gonna do a podcast i'm gonna do these shows i'm gonna live in this kind of a house i think you're then given the challenges in order to make you that kind of a person a person that can not only attain them things but maintain them things that's what the solitude's for that's what the hardship's for that's what the stress is for it's building a strength and a resilience that means that not only will you get that house that you want to live in you'll be able to maintain it light work you know so yeah that's yeah what's your insight around dark forces as you are able to make a more positive change in the world dark influence realizing that the impact is so positive that they need to put increasingly difficult challenges in your way we talked about this last time but i find it really interesting are you thinking this is devil bad energy karmic retribution how do you see this happening yeah i think you've got um within the within the album i play with biblical framework right just because if you look at some of these cathedrals men were building them sometimes for 300 years and as you know a man will live for 80 years he has to pass on the assignment so there's something in religion to be taken seriously however i sort of look at let's say if we look at a different culture and a different religion and you look at a guy and you look at the the grandparent of this guy's grandmother and she's a really nice person she's helped bring the kids up just because she's of a different religion to another person i'm not sure that means that she's not in contact with god so i i sort of take a step back from being sort of particular in my thinking towards religion and the devil and i'm really down here living it which sort of goes back to what you were saying before about when you're living it it's hard to apply everything because it's all going on you know so i think you can get as deep into a sort of biblical framework or sort of spiritual thinking as you want but we're here in the physical living it and you've got a sort of um you've got a sort of wrap your mind around it and i think from this conversation you can see that analogies and stuff has been the way i've learned do you think pain is the best teacher or is it the loudest teacher well i mean if you you disrespect a man on a cold night and he punches you in your face you'll you'll quite quickly learn that you've done something wrong in that situation you'll you'll be in that situation again in front of a guy that looks big and strong and you will think the next time you you address that person how am i going to conduct myself when i say something here because i wouldn't like to get a tooth punched out on a cold night so i just think it's the i think it's i think it's shocking i think as a human being to have a nervous system it's hard not to be influenced by pain and i think i think these are the ways that god teaches you i think pain's a big part of that so i think it's one of the one of the most sort of impactful teachers how do you handle fear what's your relationship like with fear like everybody else like everybody else man sometimes fear wins but what i've realized about fear winning is you sort of run and hide right and a pivotal point in my life where i could give you an example of my relationship to fear is and i may have touched on it with you but i get stabbed off a guy no i'm 11 years old i go on to an estate to see some friends ask me to come out and um and some guy's sort of starting a problem with me and he ends up stabbing me and what happened i've touched on this before but i've not gone into this particular point and what sort of happened is i went home i hid in the trousers from my mom i got stabbed in my leg what by what was it it was a screwdriver okay and he opened me up and now so there was a lot of blood and the holes in these pants um and after that i was afraid the six weeks holidays came up where everybody goes out to play with the mates and i wanted to stay in right and there was just sort of a three-year period where that situation was in the back of my mind the fear of that situation the pain that i felt the embarrassment in front of these people invited me out some of them was girls they picked my bike up they smashed my bike i was i was running from all of them feelings to a point where i went into a sort of a really dark place where i was experiencing suicidal thoughts i made a couple of attempts but was too young and too cowardly to really sort of get that over the life and and at that point is when i realized i had to face it and i went on to have that guy a fair fight on his estate um and i and i won that fight and that was that for me was gave me an understanding of fear and what it made me realize is you can hide for as long as you want but at some point you've you've got to come out of the house some point you've got to face whatever it is that you find scary and again have that fight so that's my relationship to fear sometimes it still wins right sometimes i'm just not ready to have that particular fight um but then a lot of the times now i just go and get it done within reason as well there's some there's these some fights that the time's not now yeah some fights can wait um and then some fights are imminent and you just go and get it done most people have no 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description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom a checkout that's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom a modern wisdom a checkout i've heard you say progress is irreversible the universe will pay you back for all of your hard work don't be afraid to work hard what's that mean to you yeah i think so you've just been doing a tour right you'll have made progress on some of them nights it's the same as a seed being planted and you don't see the first bit of the seed growing because we're outside of the soil looking at the ground but it doesn't mean that it's not it's not progressing the seed has started to sprout it started to grow you know eventually you know eventually it'll be a big beautiful tree or whatever it's going to become But you, you must believe in the fact that progress was being made under the ground. And they're some of the toughest nights because you might be trying to become somebody in your life and like nothing's happening. It's like me now, for an example, I've made Make It, Maintain It, I call it part one, because I eventually I'll make a part two, but by the time I make part two, I'm not interested in being a rapper no more. I'm not, I'm not trying to sell albums. Even with this album, I've not promoted it much. Yeah. So this is for the people listening. This is the day before the album drops. There's been one pre-release song, one, two, a couple, yeah. Doing this podcast today. I know why you're here in London, you're busy doing a big project that isn't the album, which comes out tomorrow. Yeah. And you're spending a few hours today and then we're doing dinner later on. I mean, it's something that's obviously very meaningful to you. And yet you're getting on with life outside of it, too. It's already transcending. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm interested in diversifying. So the project that you're talking about, they actually announced that the other day. Did they? So we can touch on it. Tell me. Yeah, it's the Gentleman Series 3 with Guy Ritchie, which is just an exciting prospect for me. Being that Guy Ritchie films prior to me being in the media were films that really grabbed my attention. His style of directing really grabbed my attention. I look at rap music as a young man's sport, not to say that I'm not a young man now, but rap music is sort of about the come up and the transcendence of dysfunction. Anything after that you can hang about too long. And I'm sort of looking at my skill set and I'm like, I've got transferable skills that will apply to different worlds. Acting to me looks like a world I'm interested in going over into. You will be the only actor from the Gentleman movie in the Gentleman Series. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. All right. What a privilege. I mean, fuck me, like Guy Ritchie is the most on fire man in the world at the moment. Just out of this world, good. And the most recent Gentleman Series is like, I'm seeing guys dressing like Theo James, like people deciding, oh, this is going to be my expression of myself. It's an entire new subculture, I think. And it's crossed across into America as well. Yeah. I'd sort of, I haven't even said this to Guy, but I'd sort of say that Guy Ritchie's time is coming. I don't even think we've seen his best work. Which is crackers to say, given that when was like Lock, Stock and those movies, 25 years old, at least 20 years old. Right. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm speaking out of school because again, they're not conversations that I've had with Guy, but in my early sort of career in music, there's a freedom in your first releases. You're not really a part of the industry. You know, rigidity is not set in that like loads of responsibility comes with it. Fame might come with it. It's just things that happen that can impact the type of work that you make. And in my experience, you end up caring to the audience at some points that never works. You know, you end up thinking you're smarter than you actually are at some points that never works. And you end up making some work that's not a true representation, it's still solid work, but it's not a true sort of representation of the artist that you actually are. So in my short experience of being in and amongst sort of Guy Ritchie's atmosphere, I think he gets better. I don't think he's peaked yet. There's a line that I had to write down from season two of The Gentleman. I think it's Theo's character when he's ill, when he's banged up, when he's sick and he's been in that fight. And he says, it's not until you leave yourself behind that you can experience who you truly are. And I thought that was so lovely. And I wonder whether there's something similar with what you're talking about here that you start off, I have something to say and it's true, but it's unrefined. It's like rough. Right? I don't have a lot of raw material to work with, but I don't maybe have the experience that allows it to fully flourish. And then after a little bit of time, you gain some experience, but you gain some pressure and some awareness and some notoriety and some expectations. And people want you to do these things and you've got a great first project, like, let's see if you can run it back again and again and again. And then maybe you go off track a little bit with that. And then, oh, okay, well, I tried to chase success by giving people what I thought that they wanted. That's not fulfilled me in the way that the original one did, but now I've got the experience to be able to make something more grand, more beautiful, truer to what it is. But I've got all of these other things pulling me in different directions too, so I'm seduced. There's sort of this eroticism of attention that comes from the people around me and the world and the recognition. Okay, so I need to rid myself of that. I need to keep the experience. I need to stay tapped into the thing that I had in the very beginning. And then finally, if you can weave through this maze with seductresses and temptresses and sirens all over the place, finally you get to come out the other side and you go, wow, I have all the experience. I'm still emotionally, existentially connected to sort of what that route is. And now I've rid myself. All the barnacles have been culled off the bottom of the ship so that I can actually finally get there. And I think that's hopefully what mastery looks like, you know, this sort of ever-increasing refinement of getting better and better and better at your art. The journey of greatness, man, that was a far more articulate way of saying what I was just saying about Guy Ritchie. You witness somebody's journey, there's lots of greatness on the way. But then eventually the work sort of complete and, yeah, that's what you're left with, a master of their craft. And I just don't think there's many of them in this day and age, man. You know, if you go back as early as like Da Vinci, I've got a track called Da Vinci on the album, and in the beginning I say, in the Mona Lisa, there's hundreds of layers of paint called Da Vinci because there's hundreds of layers of paint. And when I was, I was sort of trying to study guys like Da Vinci, this is where I'm probably quite unusual. But you texted me at the start of this year, I did an episode with a guy who broke down the life of Da Vinci, how to think like Da Vinci, and I was going back through our messages earlier on today, and you'd sent me a text about that particular episode. Bigging you up, it's a big episode. So now we're getting to probably a version of me that I've not probably even spoke about much. And there was a point, when I'm 16, I'm sat in jail, in solitary confinement, and I have this dream that there's like an earthquake or something, and the world's coming to an end, and everybody's escaping, but I'm stuck in this room, I'm locked in this room, and nobody's going to come and let me out, and the whole world's falling down outside. And in that moment, as a 16-year-old guy, people that you've came up in school with or whatever are sort of getting their GCSEs, and I remember being like, not so much envious, but aware of the fact that like, my household was falling to bits, there's no way I could have focused and got my education. Now to go back to the victimhood narrative and the accountability that we spoke about before, my approach to that was, I'm going to go and self-educate. So I can only really educate on things I'm interested in. So I try and find, I mean, I can educate myself in areas. Again, I was talking about ADHD not long ago, talking about I've got ADHD or ADD and whatever, and the more that I take accountability and strengthen up, the more I sort of realize like, do you know what? I can learn the things I'm not interested in. It just takes more of my energy. I'm bored, I'm yawning, but I get through it. I will build the stamina to get through it. And that's where I've sort of got to know, right? However, Renaissance art and things like that are things I'm just naturally interested in. So you were telling me, did you say that you got into learning about, is it crests? Like how a coat of arms is constructed because you needed it for your house? Am I making this up? No, no, no. What's it called? What's the name for it? Yeah. Coat of arms, basically. What would happen is in the early days. And I guess that's attached to my interest in history, right? Because when I'm sort of looking around at the system that's in place, I'm like, let me strip this back and let me go to the beginning prior to the system and the types of people that put systems like this in place so I can have an understanding of what I'm looking at when I'm walking through this corporate world, what I need to take serious and what's not that interesting. And when you get back to the sort of early days, the primeval days, what would happen is lots of wars will be kicking off in them days. And you would have, if you was sort of associated with royalty, family of the king, or, you know, attached to royalty, you would have a coat of arms that would have sort of a representation of how that king came up. And that, I don't know, it just fascinated me in the fact that some of these kings were just men that was able to take power by force. And then you got to think, who is that individual? Well, that's the essence of what a king is. Because when you get to guys like Henry VIII and he was like educated and flipping bit spoiled and chopping his wife's head off when they annoy him, really he doesn't represent what an actual king is. A king is a man that's took power by force. He's made it and he's maintained it. And that's the essence of what I'm kind of talking about. I'm talking about the fact that any man can be a king. And this doesn't mean that you're going to rule the land, you're going to be the king of the place that you live, but you'd be the king of your own kingdom. And that's just what I got interested in anyway, so that's the nature of me getting interested in the coat of arms. What would happen is it'd be a big battle and you might have had your ass whooped or your guys are dead and then you bump into 10 guys from the other side on horses or whatever and they would see you. Ordinarily, what they might do is just chop your head off, something to do, torture, whatever they felt like doing, because there's no laws going on at that point, but if you've got this particular coat of arms on, it's in their best interest to take you back to their king and they would then, their king would decide what to do. And ordinarily you might negotiate with your king and sell you back to that king for a ransom. Anyway, so then they'd make a crest of that coat of arms and made a fragrance called the House of Vision and it was a part of designing that fragrance. So I guess I'm lucky in that I've got job descriptions that allow me to educate myself in places. You know, I'm not just generic. If you put me back in a room with the kids that were A-class students that got A's in their exams while I was sat in jail, I bet now I'm more sophisticated than them in many areas because that was a generic version of history. I've gone off and got into the nuances, the little details of how things really work and how it's applicable to sort of times now. So yeah, and your episode on Da Vinci, again, a version of me that people probably don't understand is I go away and I educate myself more and I read lots and I go and open my mind because of where I've come from. I think there's going to be people in the underbelly that are coming from real dysfunction that have no one to grab onto and look at. I think the more my career grows, the more they'll sort of grab onto me and by the time I get there, I need to be educated enough to be able to stand on what it is I'm actually saying, let alone having the type of wife that I'm interested in having, let alone bringing up the types of kids that I'm interested in bringing up. And also education in that respect is key, I think. There's always another level. There's always another level to keep on educating yourself to, to develop yourself toward. And in some ways that can make people feel a bit despondent because I'm never done. I'm never finished. But also if you enjoy what it is that you're learning, if you enjoy the process of growth and improving yourself and impacting the people around you, the people that you haven't even found yet, the wife that you don't have, the kids that don't exist, the dog that you haven't raised, the house that you haven't bought. It's an opportunity. Yeah. And I think that is where maintain it comes into the equation. I think that diet, the anatomy, the way that the body works, how to keep the body strong and functional, the mind, how to keep the mind elasticated and open to learning more. I think these are all things that are necessary. I don't think there's any two ways about it. You're either going to be the type of an old person that's got a walking stick and you frail, or you're going to be one of these that we're seeing a lot of in. in the modern day and age where you're still looking young and feeling fresh and, you know, living your best life. That's what I'm interested in. That's the kind of wealth I'm interested in. I'm content. I've got everything I ever wanted. If I'm smart, there'll be people far richer than me. But if I'm smart, I'll never work again. At that, I'm uninterested, man. What I'm interested in now is enjoying my life, doing the things I enjoy doing, building the family I'd like to build, looking after my children, giving them every opportunity to live a solid life, you know, and that's what maintenance is. You know, it's the, you take the kingdom by force and then you maintain the kingdom by, with discipline. And consistency, you know. This episode is brought to you by Gymshark. 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Do you think if you stayed in primarily focusing on rap that that would limit you, limit your growth, limit your life? I've probably been in the rap game longer than you should. And I've been able to do that because my storytelling ability is, that's a gift that I've been given. That's one of the gifts that I've got. And I remember being young and being in lots of trouble. I was at an old friend's house, who's on the computer, the PlayStation. And his mom rushes up the stairs, all flustered and worried. And she's like, just had the police on the phone. And she's like, you've got an Osmond warning. Now I could be wrong about that word, but I think it's an Osmond warning. And that's when there's intelligence that somebody wants to take your life. And- About you? About him. Right. I didn't know where to live, so I was staying on his sofa. And it didn't fluster us. It was the lifestyle we was living at the time. We thought we was gonna be career criminals. And this was the sort of practice stages. This was the same as being a young boxer in the gym, sparring. How old were you? 14, 15. And at that time of my life, so much chaos was happening on a day-to-day basis that I was sort of, that's one of the few times I've questioned God. I've been like, why? Why am I having to go through all of this? And it's not until my career sort of formulates and takes shape that I understand that like, oh, I'm able to be a storyteller in the rap business. That's actually got lots to talk about, you know? And I'm just coming to a stage now where I think the rap game, it goes in stages of, you're from a dysfunctional background. You talk about that. Here's who I am. Here's where I'm from. Here's what it's been like. We relate to that guy. He gets another album out of that if he's clever. Then he's got some money. And then he starts talking about the money, the cars, the girls, and what he spent his money on. What I'm talking about in this album is the point that's under-documented in rap, which is what happens after you've spoke about where you've come from, an audience that's connected with you. You've earned some dough. You've spent some money on some fancy things. What next? That's maintaining it. It's main maintenance. We've got that in America. We've got Jay-Z. We've got 50 Cent. But if you look at guys like P Diddy, if you look at the way 50 Cent conducts himself, there's still some heavy dysfunction going on in the mix of that. And don't get me wrong, America's a big, brash place. So the British rap game is a different game. However- Kanye West, probably another good example. Good example. Lots of dysfunction there. But we're British, so we conduct ourselves different. So I'm one of the first British rappers, one of the pioneers in that. Here's what it looks like after that phase. And I understand the responsibility of that position. And that's why I take diversifying serious. And a lot of other rappers will be shocked and will find themselves having to follow the blueprint. And I just don't see that in any egotistical way. I mean it with all due respect. I'm just on my journey. I'm not even interested in being better than anybody else at this point. I'm really just competing with myself. However, rapping is a young man's game. You know? And there comes a point where you must diversify. A lot of boxers don't diversify. A lot of footballers don't diversify. And it all goes wrong. We see them. They've put weight on. They've spent a lot of the money on the addictions they've picked up. And they're sad. So therefore, you have to take that transition serious. You must diversify. And in diversifying, you get yourself a more adult job description. That's why I'm interested in being an actor. And take into consideration the fact that as a man, it's your job to look after a wife and children. And I think, I just see people that don't take that aspect of participating in a young man's sport serious. They don't take it to the next phase of their life serious. It's interesting. I've been thinking a good bit about something like mastery with an open heart. What drives most people, especially in the beginning, to work hard, to be diligent, to be disciplined, is maybe a chip on their shoulder to wanting to prove people wrong. It's wanting recognition and validation, admiration, respect from people that they respect. It's wanting to get money and freedom and independence, to be able to navigate their own sovereignty, to not need permission from anybody. There's a lot of fuel in the beginning. And I'm interested how many people are able to continue chasing mastery without relying on the toxic fuel that was there in the beginning. What happens when you've spent that fuel tank? Because you can keep using it, but over a long enough time period, it is toxic. Well, because then you've got to go and produce more of the fuel. 100%. I know of a couple of guys recently who have basically manufactured enemies. This situation, a bunch of situations actually, did not need the level of friction, cantankerousness, divergence, disagreement. It didn't need that. These enemies have been confected, concocted, confabulated out of nowhere, purely so that this person has something to push up against. Yeah, sophisticated and articulate. I've been guilty of that. I'm going to make an enemy. I'm going to make an enemy to give me more of this fuel that I worry I'm dwindling out of. I reckon 50 cents guilty of that. Which enemies has he done? I don't know the law. But no, by the way, I have no interest in sort of speaking on another man's journey. It's just an observation. If I talk about myself, which is all I understand, I just see similarities that I can relate to. And what happens in the streets is there's some scary individual that would like to take you off the face of the planet if they could. And it's down to, I don't know, jealousy, hatred, anger, whatever the reason is. But it fires up something in you. That also happens in boxing. When you walk into the boxing gym and the coach says, I've got your fight. Really? You're going to be fighting this guy. He's had this many fights and it's real. You're going to be having a fight. That'll have a similar effect on you. And what it is, is this sort of final destination in your mind, if you're not careful, whereby the worst can occur. Like you can really, you can lose. And in losing, you can lose your identity. You can lose yourself. Respect is so much on the line. And it just brings out a new version of yourself. You'll do the extra run. You'll go to bed early reading a book. And I experienced that in the streets. You have a problem with a scary individual. You'll take making some money more serious because you're like, I can't be out here forever, man. So that being said, I'm guilty of trying to initiate the production of that toxic fuel. Just because a professional career kicks in in entertainment and some of the lines are blurred. It's like, I'm a rapper. What does that mean? Exactly. So you've got to create your own framework. You've manufactured enemies and rivalries because- Well, they're sort of there, right? But they're just not as interesting as the worst ones were. Actually, your pride's not on the line. You don't care what they say about you. But you can open that part of your mind and be like, what did he say? And that brings out a version of you that you're like, if I bump into him and he thinks, because I'm famous, he's going to do something to me and I'm not going to take self-defense serious, and that'll just bring out a version of yourself that turns up with a solid physique, turns up focused, has been reading before bed. So there was a lot of that in there. There's a world out there where there's a lot of jealous people, a lot of people that are probably upset with things I've said, things I've done. And there's been versions of events where I've actually looked at that. Let me see what these people are thinking. I provoked myself, got myself a little bit nervous, thinking, oh, is he out there? And he would like a problem with me if he could. All right, for sure. And then you become the version of yourself that is prepared for that challenge. What do you think about that? Because I can see both sides of how useful and adaptive and functional that could be. In one way, it is free fuel for you to push yourself harder to become better. And in another way, you are manufacturing, like just creating out of thin air, antagonism against the world. It's energy, essentially. You're farming energy, but it's a crutch also. You're relying on something external to create energy. In the same way as you were saying you want to be able to be the best that you can without people around you bigging you up and telling you that you can be better. You've got to go through this season of isolation, man. It's just not spoke about enough. Oh, we're going into winter. That's the winter arc, right? Yeah, man. And have the confidence in yourself that you'll come out the other side, man. And in that, you will let go of all crutches. I don't need some negative individual that would love to have a problem with me because it prospers his life, but hinders mine. It doesn't matter. I don't need the fuel from that to get up and get to the gym and lift heavy, or go sparring and let it fly. So you'd learn to look within. And as opposed to take toxic fuel, find the real fuel, your essence. And really it comes from a place of love. That's what the real fuel is. Yeah, man. It's love, man. Why am I interested in my purpose? Well, it's because I remember being 12 year old, looking at a documentary when we were kings. About Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. They go and fight in Zaire. Was it the Rumble in the Jungle? And I was just surrounded by complete dysfunction. I was desperately looking for sources of inspiration. And that's what I served as in a major, major way. You know, there was suicide on my mind at them times. It was, you know, I was in a dark place. And from a place of love, tapping into that abundant energy source of love, I know that kid's out there. And I know that that kid is taking strength from what I do next. So therefore, that's all the strength I need to maintain it. In that if I fall off, I let that kid down. You know, and I could have saved a life there. And that's, I think when you've got a very dysfunctional family, there's this internal battle that sort of goes on where you're like, you gotta let go of people. And you're like, am I not loving? Have I gone cold? There's a song called Prisoner. talk about it I'm saying I'm afraid that I've gone cold and that's the question I'm sort of asking myself sort of writing like my diary in this particular song and in asking yourself that question you have to look at your relationship to human beings in general because I'm really willing to cut people off man like if regardless to the title of an individual to preserve my inner peace I'll really let go man I don't care who you are what it is if you're not gonna take accountability and you're gonna lie and be disrespectful or whatever it is I'm gonna leave you over there I'm just gonna keep walking my own journey when you then look at your relationship to human beings and you meet an individual that is accountable or from a dysfunctional background but he's trained and that's where you see what what's going on in your heart and it it turns out that there's lots of love in my heart yeah and and actually I'm more open than I thought I was I'm just triggered by people that have the same traits similar traits to the ones that I was so broad exposed to and sort of first-hand witnessed the destruction that comes with how them people do you know why I think that is so there's a type of illness called SERS chronic inflammatory response syndrome and if you live in a house that's got toxins biotoxins in like mold and microbes your immune system begins to learn that that's a threat it's slowly over time breaking your immune system down and chronic inflammatory response syndrome means that if you ever get re-exposed to that kind of environment almost immediately your immune system switches on it's like a warning alarm this is familiar and dangerous and it's an immediate response so if you have SERS and you walk into a building even if you've been out of a toxic environment for 12 months let's say you walk into a house that's got mold spores in it similar to the ones that you were exposed to in the past your neck will go red you'll be inflamed you'll get a ringing in your ears you'll get brain fog you might feel sick you might lots of things happen immediately this thing switches on and I think what's happening there is your body has learned that a very familiar but dangerous kind of pathogen is around and I think that this is somewhat similar to what you're seeing here which is I know that archetype I know that kind of person I understand the mentality the background the worldview and there is a psychological immune system that kicks in which goes if I spend too much time around this person I might go back there I don't think that it's fully conscious but I certainly see it myself there are patterns from my childhood people that I spent time around lessons that I learned or observed people that I saw in the modes of behavior I'm like that was imprinted so deep into the source code of who I am that I do not want that in my life I don't want his relationship with gambling I don't the way that he cheats on his wife I don't his lack of care for his kids I don't the fact that he uses alcohol in order to be able to deal with his problems and anytime that I see something that sometimes isn't even that I like incorrectly pattern match in the same way as chronic inflammatory response syndrome you can go into a building and it's one one thousandth or one one hundredth of the dosage that you were exposed to previously but immediately the immune system switches on because it's looking for this thing that was maybe a killer that maybe could have taken your life down a path or your immune system or your health down a path that you really didn't want it to go in and this is kind of the same which is I see in this person somewhere or in this relationship or in this dynamic or whatever I see a world that I really really don't want to be a part of and it feels familiar to me in a way where my psychological immune system is kicked on to go get the fuck away from this as quickly as possible. Interesting point right because there's two versions of events there okay and what you're talking about with the inflammatory response is the sort of the body's like airbags you know in a car the car crashes and the airbags come out and you're talking about them airbags sort of prematurely just sort of alerting and coming out so in within sort of the healing process there is a phase where prematurely the airbags come out and it's like oh no as you become the more you become a man the more you you're making decisions essentially you're looking at a situation you're weighing it up for what it is and the impact it can potentially have and you're initiating healthy boundaries. You're not responding impulsively there's a degree of intuition but it's cultivated so intuition refined. There you go yeah and at that point you're just making decisions as opposed to just being triggered and there's a triggered response. Or as opposed to having permeable boundaries so malleable and floppy that you never actually end up standing up for yourself or when you were young being so inexperienced that you weren't able to see the pattern that you should have been aware of you didn't know what a microbe was you didn't understand what a moldy house smelt like so you go from ignorance to awareness to reactivity and then finally to discernment maybe something like that. The word would probably be responsibility you're responsible in the decisions that you make you can see what it is that you're walking into and you decide to walk away you decide to let it go so like some of them people it them individuals you spoke about a gambler or you know I've been around guys that cheat on their partners and you have to make a decision in that in that moment because there's 80% of that person's character that is up your street this is my kind of guy but at the point that he cheats on his partner it's like and as a human being you can't be judgmental right because we all come from dysfunction however when you becoming the person that you see yourself being you gotta make decisions man and some things you gotta take a step away from and also it's a it's honesty really I think it's authenticity I think again it comes down to love how am I supposed to look that guy's partner in the eye if I haven't understanding that he goes and cheats on his missus you know how how am I supposed to trust what he's saying to me if he goes home and lies to his to his best friend yeah yeah I mean unfortunately it's one of the things I don't think people fully realize about gossip that everyone likes gossip in one form or another right even if you know that you shouldn't until you realize that you've been seduced by it like oh is that some information about something behind the scenes that could be quite interesting or cool or a little bit got any like venting gossipy but one of the things that people who gossip a lot don't realize is that even if the person they're gossiping about doesn't find out the person that they're gossiping to is taught a really interesting lesson oh they found out that you are the sort of person that talks behind people's backs yeah and then you get the types of people that won't do that for that reason or you get the types of people that don't do it because it's just against their moral code correct that's that's that's who you want to be they're the people that are they're the people I gravitate towards their morals and their principles I like being around them people because they're accountable they're responsible now by the way I have been an unaccountable and unresponsible individual and that is the nature of growing up that's a part of the journey so I don't sit here as somebody that's like perfect and always been perfect you know I sit here with somebody on the journey you know but but taking it serious there's a letter from Sigmund Freud to Carl Jung glad that he wrote him one of the lines in it says one day in retrospect the years of struggle will strike you as most beautiful the years of struggle will strike you as most beautiful and I think that it's just such a gorgeous reflection on what most people realize but only in retrospect unfortunately when you're going through it eating shit unsure whether or not you're going to be able to get out tarnished doubtful in pity how can you say that this is beautiful and yet when you look back the years of struggle are the ones where you go that was it that was where I was forging myself I think the key is to be present is to try and see the beauty in the in the darkness you know in the midst of the tunnel in the midst of the chaos understanding that these beauty within it and it's a tough place to be it's a tough place to be but there does come a point where you've just been through so much that you sort of know now that this is my path so I might as well accept it and this this will pass you know I will get through this one way or another so we you start to admire the fact that that is the beauty of life man you know I've had some I've had some really dark situations and like I said before the time when I questioned God I've had darker situations where I've not questioned God and I've just understood that like this is it this is how it's supposed to be right now and I'm sure I'll come back stronger and I've been right and I have come back stronger so yeah when we most uncertain when are you not uncertain man I think in times when I felt the most certain it's been fabricated it's because I'm leaning on these crutches these friends that you're talking about that like believing you more than you do and all that like that'll create a false sense of security I think the whole way through these just moments where you're just like you know and I think the most uncertain I've been is when I'm losing trust in my own mind my own ability to control my impulses and I'm making decisions that they're out of my right mind it's like I wouldn't do a thing like that you know or I wouldn't become addicted to doing a thing like that you know there was a time where earlier in in in my life when I was exposed to violence on a quite a regular basis and some pretty bad things that happened to me I was taking and I'm gonna say joy in sort of inflicting pain and it's just with some being somebody that's interested in fitness it's just one one of the vices that sort of fit with me so I'd have a friend that I'd have trouble with an individual and I'd take it upon myself to rectify this situation some retribution yeah and because I think and again like honestly brother like you saw a grow up my stepdad beat me up when I was 11 and it had a profound effect on one particular time did you know yeah but and it has a pretty has a profound effect that you it's not until you grow up you become adult and you look back at your life and you're like now I understand why I was interested in just being a nuisance you know and it's because that's what you're taught and you know that it hurt but it also felt embarrassing how much of it was the pain and how much was the humiliation you see part and parcel right and you want to inflict that on to other people so that feeling that you feel after being physically violated and left on the floor or whatever when you see somebody else in that situation you think deal with it I did yeah don't cry we crying for I didn't you know so there was there was a there was a phase in life where you know and all that's part of part and parcel of thinking you're gonna be a criminal for a living makes you a handy guy to have around because it's a thing that you you're at the time enjoying and then you sort of tap back into the true version of who you are and you realize that that's something that life if I wasn't careful was gonna do to me life was gonna make me that individual do you understand that I had to snap out of that and I had to realize actually I'm not like that I'm a loving kind caring respectful person that's something I've felt like I had to become in order to keep myself protected in the environment that I was in this comes back to make it some of these environments that unfortunately having no money will leave you in you will be exposed to dark things and you will have to become a version of yourself to deal with them dark things that when you mature you just won't be able to stand by hmm you know and if you're not careful you take it over the top and I met a lot of them individuals in in jail and they've done dark things And you can see that the maturing out of that mindset now, but what's done is done. And you've got 14 years in this place, you know? So the whole thing is a process of healing man, healing man. And only now are people starting to talk about it. Only now are people starting to talk about sort of men addressing their emotions or what they've been through. And I was talking about this from the get-go because my original mixtapes were me sort of quitting boxing, coming to terms with quitting boxing and coming to terms with being depressed, you know? And sad and down. And what I started to do was look at everything that I've been through, just from a perspective of, do you know what? That is sad. That happened. It's sad. It's okay to feel sad about it. I don't have to snap and get angry and just accept and move forward, you know? And actually, as I look back through that process, I've built an incredible life for myself, man. I've done really good. Yeah, man. You know, I'm a young man. I'm single. I'm in a position where I know I can protect a family. You understand? I know I can pick a country in the world that I wanna live. I can design a house exactly how I would like for it to be. And I can protect a wife and children. And it just gives me a security and I can look after myself, you know? And it just gives me, that is all I think any of us really want, give or take, you know? And in that being said, that's what I'm trying to touch on in this album is the getting to that place. I don't think the numbers are important. I think once you financially secure, financially free, financially free is the word, freedom. I mean, once you've got to that point, who cares if that's 100 million, 50 million, or a million, half a million, whatever makes you free. Once you're there, you're there. You gotta be content with your position once you know you can sort of look after a family, move on and enjoy your life, maintain it. It's interesting. There's a variety of different levels of freedom. And one of them is, you've heard of fuck you money, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fuck you money means maybe you don't need to work for anybody. You don't need to listen to a boss in the same way. You are liberated from having to worry about how much something's going to cost. That's one type of saying fuck you. Another way of saying fuck you is fuck you freedom. And fuck you freedom, maybe you live off the grid, or maybe you're able to move to another country where you can design your lifestyle in a different kind of a way. Maybe you've got your own cows and sheep and goats and chickens and you're self-sufficient, right? There's a kind of, even the local council, the power grid, sort of, you're not even, you've got solar panels, you're completely prepped and off the grid in that way. But there's a third kind of saying fuck you that I think is much more attainable for a lot of people. And that's a fuck you family. And that is no longer needing the validation of anyone. Like, yeah, maybe you're not reliant on a boss to tell you when to go to work. Maybe you're not reliant on the power grid or the local food supplier to give you whatever. But something that's much more attainable for a lot of people, I think, is to reach escape velocity from being judged, needing the validation of other people by knowing that the people that you care about most think that you kind of can fly, that you can levitate, that you can lift the world up. And even if the rest of the universe is falling down around you, the person sleeping next to you in bed and the two people sleeping 10 feet above you in the same house think that you're a superhero. And I think that that is a kind of liberation that I see a lot of men, when they become fathers, achieving that throws into quite harsh contrast the way that they were trying to gain liberation and freedom and sovereignty and recognition previously. It makes the games that they were playing like probably quite shallow and desperate. Look at my need for performance. Like, I'm jumping in the air. Like, look at me, look at me, look over here. Like, look at how cool I am and how much I can do. And they didn't know that the right woman and the right kids. The bigger picture, right? Is everything. It's all of the fuel that they needed. And I think it probably, in a bit of a smirky way, makes them look at that version of themselves as like kind of a kid. You were jumping up and down, performing for all of these people. It was cool or whatever, but really what you needed was this unit. So I say, why not have all three? And I can only speak from the perspective of a young man, but without fuck you money, you can't get fuck you freedom. Not the real kind. And if you're not careful, the fuck you family will turn around and say, fuck you. If you ain't got yourself in, if you're not functional and if you're not got yourself together. So therefore, I guess that is the sort of philosophy I'm talking about. But in order to say, fuck you, you need all bases covered. So you're gonna need some money. How much that is, you can figure that out for your particular set of circumstances. The money will buy the fuck you freedom, and also buy the protection of your family. The freedom of you being able to sort of connect, build relationship. And then your family won't turn around and say, fuck you. If you've developed the sort of functionality to be a man. So that's the interesting thing that keeps coming up here. And I think it's because you've spent so much time thinking about the psychology, where you've come from, how the human mind works, what human nature is, that when people talk, especially men, especially young men that are aspirational and have ambitions, when they talk about building a kingdom, the kingdom that they're talking about a lot of the time is quite shallow. It's materialistic, it's physical. And these things, as you say, important. And maybe even sort of the bottom of the pyramid of like, let's get yourself sorted first, make sure that you're safe and secure and you've got the surroundings. But the kingdom that I think matters much more is the emotional one. How much work have you done on yourself? How safe and secure are you as a vessel, not you as a supplier of resources? Yeah, that's important, but I think increasingly to me, I am far more impressed by men who have built a kingdom of psychological security on top of one of financial security. I'd much, much, much, much rather be friends with somebody who is one 100th as rich and wealthy and famous and statusful, but has got a cathedral of psychological stability than one who is unbelievably acclaimed, but just sort of left it there and didn't go any deeper. Well, the external reflects the internal. You know them by their fruits. What's going on inside a person will be reflected on the outside. So you see that in a man's physique. You see that in the way that he sort of conducts himself, the things he's acquired, the places he's trying to go, which essentially means that the journey is always an internal journey and there's no getting around that. And that's work that involves solitude. So sometimes I see people that surround themselves with people because that's what the isolation journey will do to you, right? It'll make you think, have I become unsociable? Have I lost the ability to make and retain friendships? And then you sort of, you can see within some friendships that like, ah, you've not got comfortable with walking your journey of isolation by yourself to become the strongest version of yourself and you're clinging onto these people for validation and a sense of belonging. And little do you know, you'd be far more valuable to that friendship group if you just went through your challenges, man. Embrace the solitude, embrace the isolation, come out on the other side. So again, I just think it's an internal journey that one's taking seriously and taking. Then you come out as a man that can serve. I think people have forgotten what a man's job is. I think sort of being around Guy Ritchie exposed that to me. And just witnessing certain conversations. Why? Having conversations with him. I don't know, because I just think that he's somebody that's a philosopher, really. That's why we like his films. That's why we like the dialogue of his movies. But who that person is behind closed doors is an honest man and a devoted husband and a devoted father. And also someone that's very human, that's come up through all of the levels. You know? When you hear what a person like that has actually got to say as a much younger man, it just has a funny way of seeping into your bones, man. And you just sort of understand that, again, you have to be just ruthlessly accountable and responsible. And then you sort of remember that, as a man, it's your job to serve, man. I take joy in helping out, if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? If I can, I've got a young fan called Oliver. He's autistic. He's dad's in jail, or was. And for me to be helpful towards an individual like that, I take joy from that, you know? I've been in situations where something crazy's going on and I can offer a woman in that moment some sort of protection. They're the moments that I think's like masculine nature. That's like a part of me that I take joy from. I see some people that take joy from spending money, or a lot of the money I've spent has been to reinvest into my brand, which was a rap brand. Big part of rap is the perception. So you got to give them proof of income. But really, behind all of that, I'm quite a simple guy, man. And in that, as a man, I feel like I like to do my job, if that makes sense. How do you square rapping about having a hurricane and a wraith that are in the same colours, while also telling young people that money isn't the point? I think that you have a brand like mine, you better get financially free, man. And if you're gonna be financially free, and you're young enough to be brash, and for it to be acceptable in any way, shape, or form, then demonstrate. You know, I've done this independently. I own the rights to all my music. That's one thing, right? But then you got to run the record label yourself. You got to employ the people. At one point, the outgoings of the business, it was somewhat like 1.3 million on staff alone, as a rapper. Who's doing it? Who's taking on all that extra stress? So you're building a thing independently. And if you're gonna do that, and you're gonna take that path, you've got to show proof of income. Like, it's going well. It's possible. You're showing guys coming into the business, like, by the way, you can do this in a way where you're not just relying on an industry to make it happen, you know? So that being said, that was that sort of part and parcel with the job description I had taken on. However, you take me out of that job description, and I'm really a simple guy, man. I'm really a simple guy. I come from humble beginnings, man. I come from a house with no carpet and floorboards, and, you know, I really don't need much. And that's the truth of who I am behind it all. But if you're gonna be a rapper, if you're gonna be a rapper, and being poor will really do something to you, man, I've been guilty of being a real show-off. And I was like that from I first started to acquire money just as a young man. You know, I'd buy a little super bike and turn up at the parties showing off. Like, it was something that I had to sort of humble myself in that regard. But again, it's a journey. It's a journey, man. Is there a line of yours that you wish more people paid attention to? From the new album, one that you think people might overlook or from past work? I think a mindset. I think there's a mindset that's overlooked. But in the times that I've, I'm always going on about Vincent Van Gogh, man. I bore myself sometimes, but you know what? Well, that's the truth. I'm a bit of a boring guy. Why? Because that's where progression lies in repetition, man. So the things I've studied, I've studied them over and over and over again until I've taken the gems out of them situations. The reason people wanna learn of successful people is because they don't wanna go and do the repetition that's needed. Anyway, so one of the things I sort of understood is the sort of hinge factor in Van Gogh's legacy, which is what it is, let's have it right. Some of his work is nearly priceless at this point. And he was trying to sell work. The work wouldn't sell. He dies, then his brother goes on to die. And his brother had a wife called Jo. And Jo put the letters between Vincent and his brother Theo out into the world. And when people understood the mindset and the philosophy behind Vincent Van Gogh's thinking, and the fact that his literature was probably as beautiful as his artwork, that's what made the painting sell. So the more that I grow, and the more that I'm courageous enough to articulate what I'm actually thinking as somebody that comes from a very complex background, that sort of identified with being a villain at one point, but has also been exposed to sophisticated people and sort of took that on. When people really get an idea of my thinking, then they'll go back and listen to what I was saying in retrospect, right? And there's a film called Eternity's Gate. It's about Van Gogh. You may not have seen it. And there's a point in that film where Van Gogh goes to St. Remy's Hospital. And in them days, it was like a mental asylum. And what you would do is you would go and see a priest. A priest would come and see you to figure out whether you was Coppola's menace or not. And they would do that by your orientation in faith, in God, your belief. And Van Gogh, his parents happened to be like pastors and religion or something. He knew like the back of his hand. So then when the priest holds up some of his work and he says, you think God made you a painter to paint this? And what he was saying is your work's ugly, right? It's different. Monet and some of the big painters in France, they was making money from painting like realism. And it all looked real, but the camera was gonna come and destroy that little trend. What Van Gogh had made was from his essence, right? And what Van Gogh says is he says, sometimes I feel like God's made a mistake. And he says, sometimes I feel like God made me a painter for people that haven't yet been born. And when I understood that, I understood that as an artist, the influence that I'm having on people might not be for right now. It might be long after I'm gone. So it's my job to just do my best work and be humble enough to accept the fact that people might not be able to see what I'm doing. They might not be able to see all of the layers of the painting and the works of art that I'm putting out. But that doesn't mean that I become lazy because it's gonna go over people's heads and people might ignore it because it's in the world forever. As Vincent Van Gogh's paintings are in the world forever. And that's why they go up in value. Because the more you understand his philosophy and his thinking and his outlook on the world as somebody that was experiencing a really sort of rough go of it, he was sort of closer to reality. Yeah, and you can't escape reality. So you will always go back and you will always refer back. That's something that had a profound impact on me. And that's what I've tried to do with this album. I've disconnected from feedback, validation. I've just made it. I've tried to make it more musical. These layers and I've thrown it out there. With part two, I've not really even verbalized this, but with part two, I'll be getting on with my life at that point. I'll make it and I won't be promoting it as a rapper because I won't be a rapper at that point. I'll be a husband and a father. So I'll make it and I'll throw it out into the world. I'll be the four people that are following the trail that I've sort of left out there. And that'll be that. And at that point, acting will have either taken off and I'm supposed to be a more famous person or I'm not. At this point, I've let go. They say to let go and let God. I've sort of got the things that I wanted in life. And now I'm sort of revisiting faith understanding my purpose. What am I here to do? How am I here to help? How can I serve? How can I help? And if that means that I'm supposed to be more famous, then so be it. If that means I get to be less famous, you know, and I get my privacy back and freedom, then so be it. Both times round, I'll be doing things that I'm proud of, that I can stand by. That like you say, my children can be proud of, you know. So, that's my outlook on that. Bugsy Malone, ladies and gentlemen. Dude, you rule. I appreciate the fuck out of you. Where should people go to keep up to date with what's going on? I mean, look, the album comes out Friday. So it'll be out by the time this is out. It's called Make It, Maintain It, part one. It's my best work. The Gentleman's season three will come out at some point. I'm giving that my all. I shaved my hair off and everyone's like, why's he shaved his hair off? It's because I'm giving the acting game everything I've got. So I'm looking a bit different. I'm acting a bit different. Dane Tenkey, shaved your head. You know, I'm serious about it. It's a job description I'd like. I was lucky enough to be in a film with Jason Statham and I seen his job description. I seen the way he conducted himself as a man. And it's a job description I'd like. So I'm marching in that direction. That being said, I'm around, you know? And I appreciate you having me on, again. I appreciate you more, man. Until next time, goodbye my beauties. Dude, yes. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hey, a quick note. One thing that we've been told by a lot of our subscribers is on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube, they've been unsubscribed or unfollowed even though they press it. So just do me a favor and check below if that has happened. It's happening to a lot of people. It means that you get to find out about episodes before anybody else and it supports the show and makes me very happy indeed. Just give it a little check. Give it a little tap. All will be well. I thank you.