How to Track Macros the Right Way (According to Pros) | Mind Pump 2744

Key Takeaway

Start tracking your macros for 30 days to reveal hidden eating patterns and build accurate awareness of your true calorie intake. Most people underestimate their consumption by 10-20%, which equals hundreds of calories - the difference between making progress or staying stuck.

Episode Overview

The hosts discuss the benefits and pitfalls of macro tracking, covering who should track, when it's valuable, and how to avoid getting trapped in an unhealthy relationship with food. They emphasize tracking as an awareness tool rather than a permanent lifestyle.

Full Transcript

Transcript of How to Track Macros the Right Way (According to Pros) | Mind Pump 2744 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Tracking your macros, proteins, fats, carbohydrates, carbohydrates, carbohydrates, it can be a total gamecher in the positive, and in some cases in the negative. We're going to talk about macro tracking, the dos and the don'ts, who it's good for, who it's bad for. Let's get into it. Are you allowed to talk about this? Yeah. Why? Yeah. Why? Yeah. Why? You don't track macros. Not coach people. people. people. I'm definitely not qualified. I was just going to say uh I have obviously we know who's tracked the most, but I'm curious out of the two of you you you who's tracked the least.

Justin. That's easy. You think so? Have you Have you never tracked Justin? No, I've track I tracked protein. I mean, that counts. Oh, but you've never macros. There's plural. Macros in general like Yeah. You've tracked a macro. I've tracked a macro in a meal. It happened. He looked at the label. Really? You so you've never I thought you did when you I do with my clients, but you know when you when you got all when you when you got all lean and ripped when we first started this, you didn't you weren't really tracking macros.

tracking macros. tracking macros. Easy easy with the lean and ripped. Come on. on. on. Screw you, man. You got super sexy. Yeah. No, I I just um it was mainly just protein and then uh I mean I would manipulate my carbohydrates and everything, but that was just kind of just I I don't know. It wasn't like super detailed. You really didn't track like you've never downloaded Fat Secret or My Fitness Pal and logged food for for myself? for myself? for myself? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not really.

Wow. He's uh Yes, of course. Uh now he now Justin was an athlete so you know a lot of his was performance-based. So it didn't matter calories though for sure. This is actually a good discussion because uh macro tracking is I think more valuable uh when you're looking for aesthetic changes especially when the aesthetic changes start to get more granular then it really makes a big difference right you know so like going from if you're a guy going from 20% body fat to 15 or 16% body fat like you don't really need to track macros going from 15 to 9 it probably is going to make a big difference um now I I did the first time I ever tracked macros was uh way back in the day, 1997.

Calorie King, calorie king books. Oh, no. This was even before that. I used uh scale and apex. I don't know if you guys did you ever was Apex even apex. apex. apex. I thought calorie king.com was was I had Yeah, I had one of those king books. books. books. I had the calorie king book. The book I think I had a book, but there was no like internet. Well, yeah. This is pre pre So calorie king was a book first, then calorie king.com came later. That's right.

That's right. And so I had the book to start with which that was as far back as I went where I was writing it on paper. Yeah. But macro uh tracking allows you the reason why this can be so valuable uh is and there's so many studies on this but this is also just based on our experience. The over underestimate of what you think you're eating is silly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just dumb. It's it's even for those of us who know uh or pretty well verssed on what food uh you know in terms of calories and macros in food.

I mean, this is what we did for a living. I could I could still be off significantly, you know, 10 to 20%, which is, you know, hundreds of calories, which is the difference between moving the needle one way or another. another. another. Um, let alone the average person uh who's, you know, never tracked before, never coached lots of people. So, tracking uh can really be an effective tool for bringing awareness around where you think you're at versus where you are actually at. I I mean I think for my clients it will unless you had a condition right so there's asterric here if you obviously someone's anor had you know history of anorexia or a really bad relationship with food everybody else it was it was mandatory we did it for a period of time I just think that for educational purposes purposes purposes I've never met anybody who says they don't track calories or ever have tracked calories, but they have a good idea of what they eat.

Just the the they're always I'm off always. I mean, as long as I've been doing this, and even right now, it's been a long time since I've probably tracked. It's been at least a year, probably more. Uh I have a I think I have an idea of where I'm at. And if you challenged me, like, you know, give me the number where you're at right now. And I had to probably sit down and go in my head, I'd give you something. But I can almost guarantee you that I'm off.

you'll get generally close, which means you're probably off by 20%. Which is enough to notast at least that because I'm off 20% of what I'm guesstimating, but it's just like then food food labels and error and all that stuff. And oh, what did I not account for? Or because there's the other thing, too, is like when you're when you're guessing or whatever like that, like not only are you you not measuring portion size, but you tend to also forget like, oh, that's right. I forgot when I gave my son that popcorn, I took a couple handfuls of that, too.

It's like, "Oh, that's right. I had that little mini size Snickers bar when I went." Or even when you're cooking, that looks like a tablespoon of olive oil. Yeah. You know, You know, You know, so the value of becoming especially um in preparation for a calorie reduction and a cut, less important on a reverse diet. You know, I'm going to give You know, I'm going to give you a little push back with that, Adam. Okay. Yeah. because um I I think uh tracking in a bulk, let's just say, can be equally important uh because uh what some people will do in a bulk is they just eat a lot more.

This will happen to the guy typically uh who just wants to gain muscle and so they're like, I'm just going to eat a lot more. Uh and and you don't need a lot more to build muscle. You don't need an extra thousand calories above your maintenance uh to build muscle. build muscle. build muscle. Yeah. That guy is eating a bunch of processed junk to get there. Well, Well, Well, so if you if you if you tell a client who needs a reverse diet or bulk, hit your protein intake, eat when you're hungry, have as much as you want, long as it's whole foods.

You know what's interesting about what you're saying? Because that was my strategy with most of my clients is that will put you in a cut or a bulk depending on uh depending on where your body needs to go is what I found. So, that's an effective way to lose body fat, too, fat, too, fat, too, for the person who's uh overeating. Um, it's great to build muscle for the person that's undereating because you start to your body signals start to be a little bit more accurate and hitting protein is the one thing that makes the biggest difference with that because of course, if you just listen to your body, some people undereat or overeat just based off that.

So, so it's interesting because I've had I've done that with with getting people to build. I've done that with people who need to lose weight, too. um you know so I think it works well for both but the awareness piece with macro counting I think is really important uh I also think it's uh really important when you're starting to get away from what would be considered generally healthy body fat percentages in other words if you're a woman and you're healthy and fit you're probably in the low 20s of body fat percentage there's a range right it's like between 20 to let's say 24% probably give or take for men you're probably you know, north or south 15% by a few percent, right?

So, it could be as low as 12, maybe as high as 17, uh, if you're fit and healthy. If you want to move typically lower than that, that's when macro counting macro counting macro counting starts to become important because your body kind of fights you. Like most guys, their natural healthy eating isn't going to make them 9% body fat or 8% body fat. And most women, their natural healthy way of eating isn't going to get them at 70%. your body will will recognize that it's catabolic for an extended period of time.

will send signals that we need to eat more up your appetite and you'll you have to learn to become somewhat comfortable that you know like maybe one day not a big deal but you uh you're catabolic for two three days in a row the body starts going hey that's right that's right that's right we need we need more calories you know and so and so and so and mo and and uh you know and now there people listening might be like well I know these athletes or I know this professional something that you know they don't watch anything they're shredded yeah there's always these crazy examples but average person, average man give or take will be somewhere around 15% uh you know either 12 to let's say 17 fit and healthy eating protein sticking to whole natural foods exercising properly and women will be somewhere in the low 20s which is great by the way most people are happy here you go below that though and back to what you're saying Adam your body starts to push back a little bit and it's just not going to your appetite not it's just not going to your appetite will if you start listening your body and trying to be healthy, getting too lean, your body will make you eat more.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And macro counting become And if you get lower than that, well, yeah, now you definitely, you know, try to get down to you dream about food. Yeah. Try to get down to 7%. Sub sub sub six, you're dreaming about food. Oh, yeah. You think about food all day. day. day. Yeah. You have to track because your body's yelling at you. And the same is true for, you know, women starting to get below maybe like 18 17% body. And to your point, there's I mean, there's always somebody I'm not like that.

There's always anomalies. There's people that people that people that uh can that build muscle when they look at weights that eat crappy food and their body powers through it. And they're terrible examples to look to for advice for the average person. The average person is not like that. The average person has to work really hard to build muscle. It's very slow. Uh it takes a lot of consistency. The average person, it's very difficult to eat in a calorie deficit consistently. Even when they do, it takes a long time for the body fat percentage to come off.

Takes lots of consistency, but we all want to point to the girlfriend or the buddy or the one person who's just like, "Well, he does that." It's like, yeah, he's, you know, there's also people like Elon Musk and Steve Jobs. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I don't care how many books you read, you know what I'm saying? And how you're just not going to be that smart, you know? It's not. And you know, today's giveaway is maps anabolic. If you want to win, leave a comment below this video.

In the first 24 hours that we drop it, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll notify you in the comment section. Also, you can schedule a call with one of our coaches, a mind pump trainer right now and have them set you up with a reverse diet plan, a 90-day customized reverse diet plan. This is 50% off right now. $49. Get on the phone, get a 90-day reverse diet plan, all customized. It's the last day for the discount. Normally $99. right now $49.

Go check it out. Go to reverse dietcall.com. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. And back to the like reverse diet bulk. You know, tracking can be important with that too with the person who's so afraid of gaining body fat, right? Often times a reverse diet, which is also a bulk, we just don't call it a bulk with a reverse diet because that'll scare away everybody who needs the reverse diet, but really you're eating in a surplus, right?

Uh and the value of that we've talked about many times on the show, but in a nutshell, why would you do this if you want to lose body fat, build muscle, speed up your metabolism, set up the fat loss to be more sustainable later, right? That's in a nutshell. But the people who are afraid, like really afraid of gaining weight, and you're telling them like, "No, no, we need to eat more food and more calories while strength training." They're like, "I don't want to gain any weight." And then you finally convince them to reverse diet.

Not having them track what it's going to look like for them is maintenance deficit, maintenance, deficit. Because they're so scared that they're just like, "Ah, this is too much food." much food." much food." So with that person, I'm like, "No, no, we have to track." Because when you feel like you've eaten enough, you're so used to eating so little that you're still eating too little. And so now we know we need to increase because you're looking at your macros and you're going, "Okay, I need to eat another 200 calories even though I think I'm eating a lot normally at so little." For the anti-tracking people, that's the real value is not that you you should or you need to track for the rest of your life.

It's really just more the awareness thing cuz we we all have patterns and behaviors around nutrition. Um some that we're aware of and some that we're not. That's right. And when you track for a good 30 days or so, a a lot of those surface and then you you become aware of it and it's just like, oh, I didn't realize that on those days when I get really busy, I end up like, oh, okay, I'm I don't get to I don't get breakfast and then all a sudden I'm behind X amount of grams of protein and then that rolls into a day where I sleep in and then I'm really behind.

It's like yet I thought I was making all these attempts to do that. I didn't know that. or oh wow I didn't realize how often I walk past that you know you know bowl of nuts that I grab a handful yeah there just that was always the surprising one I think for a lot of clients of mine was the uh the fat tracking and like where that was sneaking in with the oils and the nuts and stuff like that because it gets so high calorie wise uh and you know it just kind of sneaks in so once you start adjusting that especially if they're on a deficit like a big I think one of the best values of macro tracking is also So figuring out your natural, you know, basil metabolic rate or maybe for lack of a better term, just how many calories you're probably burning on a regular basis.

Yeah. Is your basis. Yeah. Because uh all those calculators and, you know, estimates, they're they're just not accurate. Um there's such a big difference between personto person, which you know, metabolic adaptation and hormones and lifestyle and maybe how you've done it before, it can affect all this stuff. But for somebody who who like how many calories am I like burning on a normal regular basis? Well, if you tracked for three weeks without trying to eat more or less, you just tracked and let's say over that 3-we period, not gaining or losing weight, right?

So, you're just kind of staying the same whether you're overweight or not. You're just tracking. You have a good general idea of how many calories you burn now on a regular basis. So you add it up and average it out and you're like, "Wow, on an typical day I'm eating 2,200 calories with my normal life. That's how many calories I'm burning because I didn't gain or lose weight. That's where I'm at. So if I want to lose weight, I got to go below it. If I want to gain weight, I got to go above it or build muscle, go above it.

Or oh my goodness, I'm consuming so little. My my it looks like I'm burning, you know, I was doing all this activity. I'm eating so little. Uh I need a reverse diet." It'll give you a good idea of what your body is doing on its own. Uh, and that's really, in my experience, the only way you can really do it. Uh, the calculators are are not great. They'll give you this general idea. The best part about the calculators is that I find I mean, we have a really nice macro calculator online that's free that that that What's the link for that, Doug, by the way?

So, people are going to look for it. Is it macro track macro calculator? Maps. Maps. Maps. Let me look it up. Maps. My but my point is I I do get a lot of people are like I just have no idea where to start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so they're like and so it it'll give you a good place to start but it's not the answer. And that's what I'm always coaching to mapsmro.com. mapsmro.com. mapsmro.com. Yeah. So it gives you a little it's a calculator.

calculator. calculator. So if you're like I don't even I've never tracked. I have no idea what I should start at. Then it's like there's two ways you can go about this. one if you don't want to do the macro calculator I which is what I would tell clients a lot of time is I actually want you to eat normal now when I'm so if I'm coaching someone that's actually what I want want want so if I'm if you're doing this on your own I think macro calculators can be help health health uh helpful to have a starting point to try and figure out if you have a coach I personally tell my clients uh I want you to eat the same shitty food that you ate the week before you hired me like I want to see to see to see just keep eating normal dude Yeah.

Yeah. If that meant a Snickers bar at noon, eat it. If that meant you go climb in the freezer at 10:00 at night, do it. Like I like And they're always looking at me like all sideways. Like that's not what I'm going to know when you're doing. Yeah. But I want to see I want to see your behaviors. I want to see your behaviors and habits because what I know is I could write based off of your height and weight and your goals and your steps.

Like I can write I can do what the macro calculator can do manually and write out and then ask you some questions about foods and write out this beautiful little plan. But if I find find out later that this beautiful plan that I laid out is so astronomically different than what you just did the week before, I am setting that client up for failure. That's right. I'm far better off having them eat the way is with their crazy 700 calorie Starbucks and this and that. And it's not because I'm going to let them continue to just do that way forever, but then I then I I'll methodically change little things at a time so it's not this huge like I went from, you know, eating out twice, my Starbucks drink, my ice cream at night, and then now's got me on tuna fish and crackers and, you know, turkey, ground turkey, and right, it's like that person is even if they have the best discipline in the world, they're not going to sustain that forever.

I need to teach that person how to make small change. Small change. And by the way, small changes produce results. Exactly. That's what's so what's so awesome about this is you make a couple good good macro changes in a diet that's really shitty like that and you can start building muscle, start burning body fat right away. You don't and they could still have a lot of like what other people might think is that's not a good food or that shouldn't be in the diet. Well, well, yeah, but they were so underproteined and so oversaturated fat.

All I had to do is like switch that one meal that was so overly saturated on fat and no protein to a high protein good fat type of meal. And now their protein just went up by 40 grams a day, which was almost double from where they were. And I've lowered their saturated fat. Now this person's like all a sudden or bump their fiber or Yeah. or bump fire and fiber. So there's like so you know I yeah I I um 100% I think uh it's super good advice and you know here's the other end of this spectrum which is you don't want to count macros forever.

Uh and and so there are people that get trapped in this. We see a lot of we hear a lot of them when they call in where they do this macro tracking and then this is just how they live and then it becomes a trap and it's a stressful trap. It is a control control control uh it is a a it's a way of controlling things and it causes lots of stress and it's a dysfunctional relationship with food as well. Um and so macro tracking is good if it's a step towards a uh you know a life that is not stressful around food.

It's great as an awareness tool and you can use tracking throughout your life when you feel like you need more awareness or when your goals change a little bit and you can kind of see where you're at, where you need to go. But you definitely don't want to live here for sure. Or what you don't want to do is worship the macros so much that you find a way to squeeze every terrible food into your macro uh targets. This was a thing uh and you don't hear too many people talking about this anymore.

I think it fell out of favor, but it was uh if it fit your macros was a popular thing, you know, 10 years ago where people were like, "Well, here's my macros and if it fits in my macros, it's all good." And they would do crazy things just so that they could eat, you know, garbage uh because it fit in the macros pizzas. Didn't it didn't matter if it was candy. was candy. was candy. Well, I love how you you uh you use this the analogy of like why would you do that?

It's like putting this whole process on hard mode. Oh, yeah. Like you think it's you think psychologically it's better or easier because you get to introduce these foods that are hyper palatable and you like they just made you hungrier and everything else. everything else. everything else. Make you crave more of them. It's like it's such a terrible strategy. That's why I mean those that have been listening to the show long enough why we we came out so hard on if it fits your macros. Not because the science doesn't make sense and if you don't if you follow it scientifically it doesn't work.

Of course it does. And bodybuilders do this. You know what I'm saying? That's uh all the time they use if it fits your macros. But the average client client client um introducing uh in fact I did a reaction video to you know a cheat meal. It's like I hate that uh that term, you know, it it implies you're doing something bad and it it it exacerbates this bad bad you need to escape your Yeah. Good bad good bad relationship. Like no, it's a it's a good burger and fries.

You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of calories. You know what I'm saying? Take account for it. And so it's not a cheat. You're not cheating on yourself or cheating on this thing. It's like like like it it it it adds this element uh to to the relationship with food that is unhealthy and not going to serve you. You're far better off trying to avoid those types of foods as much as possible because it actually makes adherence easier. And the idea of introducing them back in every week for your cheat day uh makes that far more difficult.

Yeah. The cravings go up quite a bit. Yeah. along the lines of studies in science and diet. I'm going to bring up a study for you guys because I think it's another good study that illustrates uh why it's important to understand um all of the factors in a study and to not necessarily take what the study says um as gospel. Okay? So, I'll read you the study. I know you guys are going to see it right away, but I'll read it um just for you know people listening right So this was a study on bulking and so what they did is they took uh two groups of people and one group and the they were athletes.

So these were athletes who were practicing plus working out or lifting weights and they gave one group 500 additional calories in their diet. And here's what they found at the end of the study. at the end of the 10-we study, the the group that ate the extra 500 calories only gained body fat. And so the study says, "Hey, uh, extra calories aren't going to, you know, 500 extra calories a day is too much. That's just going to result in fat gain." Now, let me tell you a little bit about the participants.

the participants. the participants. Yeah. Tell me about these athletes, how long they've been playing their sport for. for. for. It's also this, guys. Just Okay, both groups continued their habitual training. You ready for what it was? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Four strength workouts a week and 17 hours of sports specific training per week. week. week. Hours and four workouts. 17 hours of sports specific training per week. week. week. And four strength training sessions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, here's the deal. Eating extra Who's Who's the [ __ ] program?

I don't know. Fire that coach. extra calories uh aren't going to go to muscle unless the signal is appropriate. Right. Okay. These guy these athletes are overtrained. overtrained. overtrained. Yeah. Way overtrained. Overtrained. Overtrained. Overtrained. They're beating the crap out of them. They're not in muscle building mode. No, you're just of course you're going to gain more body fat. Now, here's the other thing I I would like to see. And it did say that nothing really improved uh much, but I'd like to see well-being and sleep and hormone profile.

If we saw an improvement, it might have. Although uh making up for overtraining with calories, uh although some some people would say that that's a great strategy, it is a little bit it's not going to fix Oh, well the rest I'll make a a prediction or a uh uh what what would Okay, that 17 hours of their sport is what you said and four hours of strength training. Okay, take that client. That's a parttime job. I'm broke. Take that same take those same people, same people, same people, cut their sport to a quarter or a half.

Okay, half and they're strength training down to one to two days a week. Add those 500 calories and watch what happens. So way less activity, okay, but a more appropriate strength building signal and a more appropriate amount of endurance and stamina training. And I bet you those calories go to good use. use. use. I bet you if you didn't recover, I bet you didn't even bump calories. You just cut all that stuff. You'd see a gain in strength and muscle without even having to add calories.

So it all you're just surviving at this point on those calories. Yeah. Look, okay, here's like taking two people that do nothing and this person eating more and we're going to build muscle now. No, you're just going to gain body fat. There is no appropriate. You need more energy. You're you're telling your body, I need as much energy as possible. Let's store it because I'm going crazy right now. That's right. That's right. So, yeah. So, you know, studies like that because then the, you know, the the author is like, you don't need extra that many extra calories to build muscle and this kind of it's like, well, that was a lot of training.

of training. of training. I don't care how many calories. That was a lot of training, dude. Well, let's be honest. I don't care how little or more of calories you gave those people, they're probably not going to build muscle. No. No. No. That the 17 hours of sport training in a week. No. week. No. week. No. I mean, that's crazy. It is crazy. You're not talking about You're not even talking about a normal athlete. Normal athletes an hour a day and a 2 hour time on their game.

Like, what is what is three hours? This is 3 hours less a day. This is like an endurance. That's an endurance athlete. I was an endurance athlete with it's like someone who's like a marathon runner that is also trying to strength train 40 days a week. It's like no [ __ ] Sherlock. I wonder that's mainly cardio. Let's be honest. Like that excess amount of like movement. Totally. movement. Totally. movement. Totally. It has to be 3 hours. It's crazy. Lift weights. weights. weights. I you know what athletes because there are a couple sports that train athletes like that cuz not all sports do that.

Even at the high level in college sometimes they beat up like if you're an athlete at that level they often beat people up a little excessively in my opinion. But there are some sports that are just crazier than others. Like water polo is one of them. Oh, water polo where they just they're just working out. out. out. So soccer players run a lot too. Uh but that's not 3 hour. I mean maybe for a small window of conditioning. I don't even think soccer play not even wrestlers Justin.

Wrestlers will spend a long time long time long time but I think water polo has to be the most most most wrestling is like way out the volume. I would like I you know did they say what kind of athlete? I mean, can can you not guess? It's a marathon runner. Who else is who else is doing 17 hours of endurance training a week? Well, it says athletic training. Well, okay. Athletic training, you know. That could be anything. They'll call that running would be called athletic training, right?

Well, I mean, what else are you doing? Four strength sessions, like four workouts a week with that. with that. with that. Yeah. By the way, four strength training sessions a week is excessive for any athlete except for powerlters, bodybuilders, bodybuilders, bodybuilders, triathletes. Yeah, triathletes. Yeah, triathletes. Yeah, that's a lot. That that'd be a lot. What what kind of athletes did you guys train where you were just like I cannot believe the amount of volume you're psychotic. psychotic. psychotic. Yeah. For for me water polo was at the top.

I I I trained a couple water polo players at at high levels and they were in the pool twice a day for two hours twice like morning before everything and after. Mixed martial arts athletes could be a lot. Oh yeah. Could take a major beating. think of major I mean they have they have they have trained resilience but I mean also those guys like I'm not building 10 pounds of muscle on them I'm just making them more resilient and and then from an aesthetic perspective because most a lot of people just want to be healthy and have aesthetics.

This is what most people want. So most people are like I don't want to care about being an elite you know polo competitor you know water polo athlete or whatever. I just want an aesthetic physique. I've done jiu-jitsu, judo. I've done at competitive levels. I've also just strength trained, which is mostly what I've done. I've done. I've done. Roller blading Roller blading Roller blading the most. I've never rollerbladed. Did you see me rollerblading? I twisted an competitive roller. I love you rollerbladed. rollerbladed. rollerbladed. I did.

I did. I did. Yeah. Besides Yeah. You did all the You did a lot of it. I did. I did. I did. Um Um Um I did roller hockey for a minute. I did. I did that, too. For me, for me, I I could the in terms of leanness and muscularity, it was just straight strength training with some walking and diet. I could even at jiu-jitsu, even I was competing at high high level, the leanest I could get and maintain performance was like 11 12%. Any le leaner than that, I just my performance would suck.

Oh yeah. On the mat. Yeah. It doesn't benefit you at all. No. Well, that's why when we see these athletes that are highlighted, the DK Metavves and the Reggie Bushes that make the magazine covers where they're like 6% body fat and they're playing football at the highest level. Just like that is such an anomaly, dude. That is such an anomaly. There's aliens out there, dude. There just are aliens. There are they're amongst us and that's the examples of it. Like, you know, or the Phil Heath, the bodybuilders like that dude that dude came out winning winning pro shows natural and not lifting weights.

See, he's playing he was playing basketball. Looked like a bodybuilder. bodybuilder. bodybuilder. Thor Jorgensson or giants. Yeah. People and we we always I mean it's it's cool to to watch those people. I I admire it's like going to the circus. Yeah. It's Exactly. It's fun. It's like, "Wow, that's so cool." But it's like what happens to too many people is they see that and they think like if I just work hard enough, I can saw I saw a slow motion video from the side. So was it from the side of a a 90 plus mph fast ball?

A pitcher throwing it. it. it. The arm torque and twisting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It looked like like I couldn't put my arm in that position without throwing. Like if you put my arm in that if you tried to manipulate arm they're snapping their arm off. Oh, the torque on the humorris. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is Is Is I mean it's the reason why they can't go back to back games. I mean they have to It looks wild. They have to arm like you have to be real careful about the amount of pitches they throw, too.

Like they got to keep a real good track. You're limited. I mean, you have only certain amount. certain amount. certain amount. It look It look It look Well, it's one of the highest We We talked about this the other day in a podcast about like proper power. Like it's it's it's Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It is the one of the highest expressions of power, right? You're You are It's like physics with with just explosive power to build your fingertips. And it's all the way you're throwing your whole You know what would happen to the average person if you were able to get them to move their arm that fast?

They wouldn't be able to decelerate. It would twist off their body. I think it would almost it would probably tear it. Oh yeah. You tear tear ligaments for days. You know what's funny about that is that it would actually more to a a deconditioned person who never works out uh might be okay and just get sore, hurt themselves a little bit that. But like a someone who lifts weight and is strong and healthy more likely to do more damage. Yeah. Yeah. Do more damage. That's always I always found that interesting to like talk about or think about because it's it's kind of counterintuitive.

You think like people don't realize that. Yeah. How different the adaptation is. It's like It's like It's like wait a second, you're this really fit buff guy. How did you know how to decelerate? Like you never train those muscles like especially the hamstrings always the one that blows out, you know, when you start to run again. Yeah. Cuz it's like you don't train to decelerate. You have to literally, you know, be intentional about that. Well, it's like it's like uh taking a a funny car or one of these thousand plus horsepower cars that are designed to go in a perfect straight line and go race the Newberg and go like, "Okay, I'm going to rip around corners with all that." Let's like that car would that thousand horsepower would get destroyed by a Fiat, a 200 horsepower Fiat and that just like that doesn't make sense to the average person.

Like, wait a second, how is that possible? This thing goes from zero to whatever in 3 seconds. It's like, but that little Fiat will take those corners with 200 horsepower and beat it around a track that where it has to turn and bend. bend. bend. It's got the handling. Yeah. Like that thing is made it has so much power in a straight line, but it take it around a corner and it's coming right out from underneath. Dude, you're you got the your beard is glistening, bro.

So, what is that shiny? What's happening over here? So, I uh So, could you comb that in? I do. I'm I'm I uh I ordered I should shout out the company because it's not anybody we work with and I really like it. I found like it was, you know, Amazon's top ranked beard brush. Really nice. nice. nice. So, it's a brush. Yeah. With the Calera beard oil. Calera lab oil. Yeah. Yeah. The Calera beard oil. And uh and and and are you going to grow it?

I am. I am. Although my wife is making me self-conscious about that cuz she's, you know, asked me like three times. And like I was I'm like, "You already asked me that." And she's like, "Oh, are you growing it out?" I'm like, "Yeah, yeah." And then again, she's like seeing me comment. She's like, "Um, why are you growing your beard out?" And I'm like, "Do you not like it? Is this why you keep asking?" She's like, "No. Oh, you're all defensive and oh, you're moody. It's like and I'm like, could you imagine if I did that about your hair?

Every time you're like, oh, you're going to color your hair, huh? So, that's what you're doing. So, and then I didn't just ask you once. I came back and I go like, so you decided to color your hair, huh? Like, would you not go like, what the [ __ ] You don't like it? Like, that's how you're making me feel right now. And then somehow it got turned around on me that I'm irritable right now. And I'm like, sure. like, sure. like, sure. I'm just like, okay.

You know, you need to calm down. Yeah. It was like that, dude. It's just like, I know you haven't had a lot of sleep. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, "Honey, you've asked me three times in my In fact, I told you before I was gonna do it." I like, "Hey, I'm gonna tell Vicki I'm gonna let the beard grow out a little bit, right?" I was like, she's like, "Oh, okay." And then I did it and then I got ordered the thing and I've been doing the beard oil every night and she's like, "So, why are you growing your beard out?" But do you like the oil?

Oh, yeah. Well, because with the gray hairs, one of the things I what I don't like about when we grow our beards out, all of us, uh, is it gets all wiry and if you use the beard oil and you comb it, it'll it'll bring it all down. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It'll it'll Yeah. bring it all down. So, and I've actually never like made an attempt to like really do that. I've always just let it grow out. I hate when it gets all like that. That's probably why I stopped cuz Yeah.

It gets a little wild. Yeah. But now that that Calera has a beard oil and I love all Calera's product, I'm like, "Okay, well, maybe I'll actually try and for the first time train my beard." Have you seen the ad they're running with me on it? The one that's just me putting stuff on my face and I'm just looking. looking. looking. The one that you did shot in the front. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good ad. I get I get hit with that all the time.

I'm like, "This is me, dude. Stop sitting. sitting. sitting. I don't want to see myself." Yeah. I wonder what Doug would look like with a beard. I know. Huh. Have you ever tried growing one? Uh, Uh, Uh, do you have a patchy, man? man? man? No, I don't I don't think so. It doesn't grow a lot right here, but I think it'd be fine. Oh, grow a beard. I did a soul patch once. Oh, I don't do that. No, I would never do that. I mean, I did that when we first started.

started. started. That was uh many, many years ago. Dude, you need a grow a beard. Wow. You would look would look would look I agree. Let's have you grow a beard. I was thinking about doing a mustache like like Justin's got the mustache. Yeah, he's already he's already established that his best you would actually look good. I would love to see you in a beard. M I mean, you have a good jawline, so I I understand why you like to shave, but I think a beard would look good on you, dude.

dude. dude. Yeah, I've been pretty much clean shaving most of my life. Yes, you have. That's why it'd be fun to kind of change it up a little bit. Yeah. Let's see what rugged Doug looks like. Rugged Doug. Rugged Doug. Rugged Doug. Rugged. Rugged. Rugged. Come on, do it. Just Just one. You don't have to keep it. If you don't like it, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd like to see maybe over the Thanksgiving holiday. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be cool. You come back. Nice little 5:00 shout out.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to see you in a beard. Me, too. I have you. All the years you never I've never seen a guy with a beard. To come on, dude. I want to see a beard. Okay. I want to see a beard. I uh there's this videos on social media of dads uh suddenly shaving their beards and then and then going to their daughters in particular to freak out. No, they kid especially my dad especially daughters hate it. And if you look at the data on this, you know this, right?

when that when uh when pe when they do studies on this uh people will generally consider men with beards to be better fathers. better fathers. better fathers. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. It's it's consistent. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. For some reason, you're they think you're a better father because you have a beard. So, and I'm watching these videos with these kids Santa Claus and the kids are like, "Ah, dad, don't do that." do that." do that." Okay. So, let's try and unpack why you think I don't know.

Oh, you don't think so? I So, is it wisdom? No. No. No. Health, age? Health, age? Health, age? No. I think when you stay like you're when you stay clean, shave and sharp, you're more particular about looking handsome, your image like that. You sort of grow a beard like I don't give a [ __ ] It's more of a You're full in. Yeah. I'm not Yeah. Yeah. I'm not trying to This isn't the best to I'm not trying to This isn't the best way to attract a lady.

You know what I'm saying? I saying? You know what I'm saying? I think it's it's more of that. You think so? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know cuz you know you with with attractiveness women tend to consider a short likeard look even though there's examples of course now because beards have become a little more popular but for the most part your male models that you'll see they'll be clean shaven different well that's what I'm but that's what we yeah but who's looking at the male models models models that's what we're being marketed to yeah not really what that's not Women aren't looking at male models it's it's it's dudes what what what yeah the modeling space is run by dudes.

Gay dudes. Gay dudes. Gay dudes. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. You know that. It's not a That's not a secret. secret. secret. So, straight dudes are watching gay dudes. dudes. dudes. No, no, no, no, no. It's male models like like you're talking about like fashion. fashion. fashion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that's that's all male models in general. They're not selling. Look at Look at male models selling things to men. Men selling things to men typically will have a beard. They're not going to be like, like, like, "You don't think?

You don't think when your wife shops for something that she buys you from that she's the one who's looking at the dude wearing it in the ad?" ad?" ad?" Yeah. If he has a beard, she's probably thinking he's handsome. He's probably not had a beard, though. Really? Yeah. He probably doesn't. I mean, I There are more today. There there's more of it today than there used. I mean, there's tattooed guys. None of that was like a thing. Just 20 years ago. 20 years ago, it would be clean shaven, no tattoos, pretty face.

Like that's you know maybe a gay guy. I don't know. I haven't figured out if it's more what's the what's the percentage percentage percentage changed because changed because changed because question. question. question. Yeah. Like they're looking the fashion industry is is is industry the fashion industry is is is is like that. What What What it's it's typically like especially male the male model female they're it's it's gay men that are controlling that look. Yeah. But you you can also I mean it's a big stereotype that I'm saying but it might be true.

you are cuz I actually have I've I have had a couple male model friends that were straight out of the defense. No, I mean I'm listen I mean what's bodybuilding is mostly gay. Yeah, very true. Yeah, is it though? Okay, so according to one analysis approximately 6.75% of male models are LGBT. LGBT. LGBT. Six. That's it. That's it. That means 94% are straight. That's lower than the normal population. A lot of guys who are good-looking model. Yes. model. Yes. model. Yes. I mean it's a way to make some money.

and meet a lot of girls. Yeah. You know, all right. I mean, we're way off. I bet. Hey, bodybuilding. Hey, check bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is higher than that. than that. than that. Bodybuilding is higher than that. What? How many bodybuilders? Come on, dude. dude. dude. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I watched that movie with your homeboy. That sounds dog. No reliable data or not. They're not telling anybody. telling anybody. telling anybody. They're all closeted. That's why you do. You did both. Little Modly. Little model.

No, I did not do modeling. I do not count. I don't count one romance novel as modeling. Does he count? count? count? I I did modeling. That has to count. Look at he's straight. Wait a minute. You did modeling. Yeah, I did. I know he's straight. Who was modeling? So, I got a gig uh for Oracle for their annual report and it was filmed at or photos were taken down at the uh stadium for the A's. And all I did I got paid $1,000 to sit and watch baseball for a day.

Wow. What? Yeah. And they shot photos. That's it. How'd they find you? I I had been part of an agency. You were in an agency. You had head shot and everything. and everything. and everything. Everything, man. Everything, man. Everything, man. So, you're just sitting there and they're taking pictures of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Why don't I think they used it? Why is Why don't we know things about you? you? you? I know. Always. Well, this is You never asked. That's why. Very direct. I don't need to ask you.

You know everything about me. I'm volunteering it now. Wow. What else have you done? We learned things. things. things. Oh, I've done all kinds of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Were you ever a dancer? Never. Never. Never. Never a dancer. Ask what else? Yeah. What else obscure have you been paid for? for? for? What's the weirdest job you've done? Yeah. What's the weirdest? What's the weirdest way you ever made money? Even five bucks. I don't care. Yeah. No, never a dancer. Uh I did teach kindergarten, you know?

Yeah, I do that. So, that's kind of Did you try modeling ever? I didn't try, but I did have pictures. Oh, you did? I did. And they're embarrassing. They're really embarrassing. embarrassing. embarrassing. They're not as embarrassing as some of the ones I have. Well, no, but I don't know if yours are out there on the internet. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I I would I will never let out the on the internet some of the stuff I real embarrassing one, dude. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I made the mistake of like letting everyone's going to find letting a professional photographer who, by the way, specializes in budoir. So, let her go like, "Okay, you you lead me. I'm I'm open. I'll do whatever." And that's the one where you're a swing guy this I've let the swing out. So dude, imagine what's not out. Wasn't there one where you're like hugging? hugging? hugging? Bro, there's I was I was naked in a bush, dog. bush, dog. bush, dog. Like like naked in a bush.

What? What? What? Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. What? What? What? Yes. Yes. Yes. Maybe we get famous enough and I need some money, I'll sell it for like crazy. Just let it out. Call that the Homer Simpson. It's It's It's like a reverse version of that. I'm like I'm hugging forward into a bunny. a bunny. a bunny. How did she sell that? Hugging the bush. She I sold her because I had had a previous uh remember I tell the story about you're naked and just hugging me.

Were you actually you actually you actually There's more than that. So wow. wow. wow. So you know that you know the book picture, right? picture, right? picture, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. the book picture the the story behind that is uh that was my best friend who was a landscape photographer and this was be this was before mind pump even and I was learning about Instagram and this was the this period of time where I realized that a lot of the people that were in the fitness space were knew they were getting professional photos of themselves and so I I hit my boy up my best friend up and I go and he's a really good landscape photographer said hey I need to do this like photo shoot.

Uh what' you do for me? He's like what kind of photo shoot? And I'm like well you know kind of fitnessy sexyish kind of you know and he's like you mean like your shirts off and stuff like that? I'm like yeah kind of like that. He's like okay. He's like best friend. You know what I'm saying? He tell you want to do it. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. And and we get and we I get to his house and he's got the stuff set up and he's like okay what do you want to do?

And I'm like I don't know. I was like like I'm not the photographer right dude. What if I was naked? a most awkward like so he took those photos. No, no, no. So he So, but what's great about this and and I should give him the credit. He's never done anything like this. this. this. And I've got a couple photos that have been picked up on the internet and stuff and used and at least three of his are are those and they're just these random, you know, random shots and not really crazy budoir shots.

Just shirt off. Yeah. Shirt off. Straddling the chair one. one. one. Straddling the chair one. dumping water on myself some there's some there's some a little bit there's some stuff like that right and it was just my hey best friend and I are like I mean just mortified both you know what I'm saying just I don't think we we talked at all and for a while I couldn't even look at it was like I just it was just an awkward month after that you know what I'm saying just and so uh so that one gets one of his gets picked up it gets picked up for a romance novel and I got paid for it and I literally just gave him the money.

I said, "Hey, bro, you deserve this." Yeah. Say, "Here here you go for I'll never put you through that again." You know, but it was so awkward because I had to also I had to really come up with the ideas. I I don't I don't have a photographer eye or anything like that. And so, um I I still was on this plan of I need to create all this these photos to try and attract attention on Instagram early days. And so, I I know somebody who does really really good photos here in the Bay Area.

In fact, she's shot a lot of stuff for us and she specializes in budois, but she does everything. Family photos, everything she's done. She did those photos I have of Max and me and Katrina. Those are her. Yeah, she's incredible. Right. And so her name's T. And I I call her up and I said, "Hey, T." I said, "Tell her what I'm trying to do for the business and stuff. Um or the what's not a business, trying to build a business and trying to gain followers on Instagram." And so I need to have all these photo.

I need a whole bunch of them. and um have with me as you want, whatever you want to do. And she's like, "Cool." She's excited cuz she's a photographer. She does all this stuff. And and I just agreed to myself that like, "Okay, I'll just do whatever she says." Wow. This is how a lot of bad stories start. start. start. You ever hear these stories, you know? So vulnerable. So vulnerable. So vulnerable. How'd you get into the industry? I just did what they wanted. Yeah. Oh man.

So the So the bush one Yeah. So yeah. So was she like, "Hey, get in the bush." Yeah. She's like, "Okay, I have this idea. Hey, just trust me." And I'm like, I do whatever whatever you want. She's like, okay. like, okay. like, okay. She's like, you know, you're going to be naked, but you're not you won't the way I'll shoot it, you won't see everything or like that. And I'm like, okay. You know, and so she has me like it's a big giant bush and you're outside.

And I'm outside. Yeah. Well, it's a kind of a private property area, right? So, but I'm like I'm like this, if this is the bush right here, I'm like into the into the bush, you know? She's like shooting from this way. And I remember that was like the I had that was like the I had already done already done already done what's your in your head? What's your inner dialogue at this point? What the [ __ ] are you doing? You're never going to share this.

You know what I'm saying? You're never going to share this. So, but I was like great. You know, it's uh I don't know. Um you know, I get you guys we're we're big on we're we're professionals in our an era. And one of the things I my favorite when I have a client is just like, "Hey, I have I I think we should do it this way. I think that, but you're the professional. your thing, your thing. I trust you and I I mean that I love that.

Like, let me do your thing. And so, I had that attitude of like, listen, I I I by no means think I know what is a good shot or what will do well or whatever. It's like, you're the professional and I know she's good at what she does, so tell me what to do. And I'm just like, Katrina with you or are you by yourself? No, Katrina was there. Yeah. Of course, Katrina's loving it. She was like, oh yeah, that's hot. Yeah. Yeah. Have him take more off.

He's super He's super comfortable with himself. himself. himself. Oh, no. Mine's not that bad. Mine's definitely not bad. All right. No, mine are bad. I to I took photos because I was getting really fit. Uh, and I just wanted to document it. But there's some of them that are just like, "Hey, look into the camera like you're sexy." And so I made it. Oh, those are like all of them. Such a goofy, you know, I'm like behind like behind a like a chain link fence and like let me in.

I've got one I did post one a long time ago that was for Valentine's Day. I'm holding like a metal heart. Oh my god. He's just so good. Oh man. I mean, hell of followers from that one. Oh god. You know what that So, remember when I talked about before we started this, this, this, I went through a transition on Instagram. I always try and tell people that we help that like building a business like I mean I I took off like a rocket ship with stuff like that.

Like the amount of engagement and comments on my page. my page. my page. But we you wouldn't recommend that's how you build your No. And that so that's my point I'm going to say. So I I had to go through this transition of like building my page of of of Yeah. Yeah. I mean the attention I was getting was all the wrong attention. It was like it was not for my fitness knowledge. Even though I would sprinkle that in there too like I would be teaching.

teaching. teaching. They weren't liking it for No. They were like when's the next half naked photo coming? That's what I'm here for. You know what I'm saying? And that was like how it was growing. Jojo baby approach. So yeah. So I had all this attention but I couldn't convert it into business. And so that's when I bailed on all of that stuff. And then it was just like value, value, value, value value. And then my numbers went way down, but the people, but the people that were engaging were like, hey, that's is that right or is this really helpful or what would you do?

And they they were asking about nutrition and fitness and the stuff that was helpful. was helpful. was helpful. Do you think it would have been crazy had it did it had it turned into a successful monetary business? Would you have been put in a position where you're like, I keep going in this direction? Well, I mean, you could argue that it was having somewhat success. It just uh it was having way more of the other stuff, you know? It was like uh I get So, even before that, you were like, I don't like this.

Oh, I didn't like any of it. I mean, I I I I it was a discipline thing for me. It's like, I'm going to go do this thing. Listen, uh not to offend everybody that's on social media and stuff like that, but I used to literally say like I wasn't on Instagram, I was on Facebook, I wasn't on any of those things. I was like, I have friends in real life. I don't need to get online. That was literally my thing. Someone be like, "Hey, do you have a Facebook?" I'm like, "No, I have real friends." That was like my attitude, right?

It was only because because because at that time, and we're we're talking back 17 plus years, I started to meet people that were young 20-year-old kids that had built a following of 10,000 people, which is not very many. you know, it was a lot then, but 10,000 people on Facebook and were running six figure plus businesses off that Facebook. And I was like, and I I had heard of that, but once I met somebody, I was like, you did that? And that really then I was interested.

And then I was like, okay, I'm I'll I'll do this and try and figure this out. And so that was a lot of me try not knowing anything of what I was doing, trying to figure it out. put in. Um, thank God I I found out that that's not a good path. not a good that's not a good path. Did you have you'd ever done anything modelwise, Justin? modelwise, Justin? modelwise, Justin? No. No. No. Really? Really? Really? No. No. No. Nothing. No. Except for that one time you accidentally sold told told sent us your selfie.

your selfie. your selfie. Yeah, we guys remember that. That was just for my wife. Top top five mind moments. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Talk about that. We did bring Yes, we did right after. So great. So great. So great. I was so And we were good about it, bro. We didn't rip. didn't rip. didn't rip. I was so embarrassed, but like at the same time, it was so funny. And And you're so lucky it wasn't worse. Oh, I know. It was so lucky. It was PG.

It was It was PG-13. He took a picture to send to his wife, but sent it to our group text. And it was like a It was like a sexy in the mirror picture, but yeah. With his shirt off, but not but like immediately. We're all guilty of probably sending our wives a lot more than that. So, it could have been really bad if it was something like that. like that. like that. She was there, too. So, it was like, yeah, it it just cuz it tagged photos and like I had had like the group and like I was I was sending you guys something else and it just added that one in.

one in. one in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, "NO, we're at dinner and we were good, dude. We had your back cuz we saw and we could have totally ripped into you at dinner." But we all just looked at each other like this. We'll save this for later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I did take pictures for my website, you know, for business, but like professional. Well, and that's why it's so awkward for me when we do those, right? Cuz like I I just like I don't even know what to do with my hands and my face, like anything, dude.

I don't know what the [ __ ] I'm doing, dude. I know. I'm not even like a flexing guy, you know? you know? you know? Like anything else, there's an art to that stuff, dude. I ain't good at it either. There's there's people that they just I mean you I' we well we we've had them we've had so many models. We've hired so many people to come in and shoot photos and videos for for all of our of our of our and and there's a clear difference.

Remember when we had what's her name that that's like a professional model that we had uh that we used a lot. I remember I liked her a lot. You brought her from Santa Cruz. What's her name? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Can't think of her name right now. So anyway, Kendra. Kendra. Shout out to Kendra. I mean, she was like I think at that when we were like we that when we were like we were always like what we used a lot was like fans that were in the show that also kind of like dabbled in model but she was like the first like professional model like somebody who like made a living off of modeling that we brought in.

in. in. And I remember all the editors were like oh my god. No, she just knew every angle and the way to look at the camera, the way to position your body. like you and half of that is like it's awkward cuz when you're directing it's like you got to kind of like stop and and adjust them and and and especially when you don't know. Yeah. You know, and like I could see like that's the funny part is I could see it in other people but like for me to you know replicate that it's just doesn't right.

It's not your craft, right? You're not but you could you could totally tell when she'd get on it. I could look and see it. She'd be s she'd be sitting there uh you know the camera guys would be getting all their stuff and we'd be talking to her about how she stuff like that and they' be like, "Okay, we're shooting the shot." And then she would like literally her face would change, her body posture would change, and it be like 10 shots we shot and they would be like amazing.

You're like, "Whoa." Like there's definitely there's people that can just do that, you know? Yeah. Cuz you Yeah. One thing to just look at, you know, to to present yourselves different. yourselves different. yourselves different. No, Justin does the his famous pose in the pictures like he instantly like I'm going to do the job. the job. the job. You don't look like that normally. What are you doing? I know. So I always get so angry. I'm like, "Dad, no." LIKE, IT'S A BAD REPRESENTATION. REPRESENTATION. REPRESENTATION. That's great.

Adam, are those the new uh Vori Vori Vori Seaside Seaside Seaside Seaside? I have black pair. They're the most most most I've got soft color. Got every color, but they're they're green. They're So, they're Vori Seaside. Yeah, it's a sea. They're seaside line. They are so that in my face, bro. They're just like soft blanket. soft blanket. soft blanket. They have You got to have You try their sweater that goes with it. The sweatshirt that goes with it is like super. I didn't get that with the the blue ones, but yeah, I have I have the blue, the black, and then my favorite are the um I think it's I don't know what color they call it, but it's like a sand color.

sand color. sand color. Um or Um or Um or they just keep coming out. They have it. So, I bought Jessica a sweater from there, but it's not like a athleisure. It's like It's like It's like No, isn't it? You and I commented when we were in there shooting our last uh shoot with them. They have really expanded like the styles into like into like uh your winter stuff's my favorite too cuz it's like it's like it's like but it's like not athleisure wear some of the stuff now.

Now some of the stuff is like you'll just wear this out and it's it's it's No, I mean they have flannels and cool vest and like no they've really uh they've really grown beyond just I mean they remember when they started and I mean Joe could correct me if I'm wrong but like I really felt like they were the answer to Lululemon men. Yeah, because Lululemon took off like crazy. It was of course the yoga pants for women. It became a a you know it's a historic time in fashion, right?

Like they like they created that that that that space, right? Athleisure wear, but the they put very little energy towards the men's section. And I I remember I used to buy some of the stuff and it didn't fit me right. I didn't really care for it much. And Viori really addressed that. And Viori went hard. Joe went really hard founder of Viori I mean uh went really hard on we're going to address like men athleisure wear athleisure wear athleisure wear and they crushed it and then they really started then they moved over into the the women's space crushed that and now they've like grown outside of just athleisure wear.

I like their um yoga pants better for my wife than the uh than the Lulu. Way that sounded creepy, but they look on my wife. Really? No. I like it on your wife. Whoa. Well, you know what? I'm always trying to sell my wife on the uh um the tennis skirts and she's always like, "When am I going to wear this?" I'm like, "I have ideas. I'll find reasons." I'm thinking about picking up tennis. Yeah, exactly. I'll pick it up just for that. Dude, I got to tell you guys about the craziest article I read.

I don't know if you guys have seen this. This is a case I believe I want to say it's in the UK. I'm going to pull it up. It is It's a UK woman. Check this out. So, a woman, obviously not mentally well, 32year-old woman goes on these like fetish websites and is looking was looking for someone cuz her fantasy was to be murdered. Tortured and murdered. murdered. murdered. What? Dismembered, tortured, and murdered. And she was looking for someone that would engage in this with her.

She found someone. This man killed her. And now he's on trial. So this is and and and the evidence all the evidence is like she voluntarily did it. She wanted it. This was her thing. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Obviously, it doesn't matter. But my my point with this is this is such a good extreme example of how human reason falls apart without this objective morality. Because I could reason and say she's she's she's uh consensual. This is her body. It's her choice. She wants it.

They're not even roleplay. And they went all the way through. Huh. He She went and he did exactly that. She traveled to Florida to do this. He flew all the way to Florida for this. Freaking nuts. Freaking nuts. Freaking nuts. How crazy is that? That is wild. Isn't that wild? So So now here's here's the here's where I'm going to make this sound even wilder because you have now assisted suicide. assisted suicide. assisted suicide. Yeah, I was going to say all over the world. Can you look up Doug in Canada?

in Canada? in Canada? Look at the Canada. How many Canadians uh have now uh been essentially put to death? medically. Yeah, it's it's actually an alarming number. I think it's like 2,000 or something like that. If I'm not maybe I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Yeah. What happened to the push back with that? It's like, you know, it's for some reason all of a sudden now this became like, oh, this is a great option. Boy, in 2023, 15,343 Canadians Canadians Canadians 15,000 15,000 15,000 receive medical assistance in dying.

Medically assisted. Now, how how what a weird like like this what a weird like like this is it's wild that we're we're doing this. Now, what percentage though of those people are like vegetables and that are like when you're unresponsive, that's not considered assisted suicide. Okay. Okay. Okay. Assisted suicide is consual. Like they it's me saying I have this terminal disease or I'm always in pain or I'm depressed. depressed. depressed. Yeah. It's mainly Yeah. A lot of it's mental. some of the because I know that they opened the floodgates and essentially are like if you are uh extremely uh mentally tormented or or depressed uh that that now will qualify.

So what what are the what does that say there Doug? there Doug? there Doug? Yeah. So since they started this in 2016 there's been over 60,000. Oh Oh Oh this is this is not this is wilder guys. This is wild. This is human reason gone craziness because there's no objective morality like what are you doing? Wow. It's it's it's accounted for 4.7% of all deaths of this is what in Canada. Yeah. Wow. This is crazy. Doug, look up the reasons. What would qualify you for assisted suicide?

Well, so they say 96% of them had grievous and irredeemable medical conditions. conditions. conditions. Yeah. Well, what's that? Yeah. Exact. I mean, that could be aid. Cancer was the most common issue. cancer that you could live with for 20 or 30 years. years. years. Just still Just still Just still Yeah. Look look like is it like you're at stage four cancer and you got maybe months to live and you're like I don't want to go through these last four. But also it's like is and again if we try to reason this with your reason why I'm trying just to play devil's advocate, right?

I'm not I'm not like by any means. I'm trying to think like where where does this kind of make sense or understanding like where you could see that like stage four cancer of terminal cancer is a is a gnarly last couple couple couple here's the deal if you had terminal if one of you guys had some terminal illness and it's like you're suffering and you're looking at me and you're like bro just help me kill myself you know what I'm going to tell you no no no I'm no bro if you want to do that to yourself yourself yourself I don't want you to you could do this to yourself, but I'm not going to help you do this.

do this. do this. No, I would. This is crazy to me. Well, I believe I believe in miracles. So, here are the main reasons. Illness related, so physical pain, nausea, other forms of suffering, nausea, serious incurable illness, disease or disability. The second one is loss of ability. So, loss of the ability to perform activities of daily living or engage in enjoyable and meaningful activities. The third one is fear of future suffering. future suffering. future suffering. uh the fear of what the future may hold. Yeah, that would be like the chance that would be like the stage four in psychological suffering.

Isn't that always what happens when people commit suicide? Isn't there always psychological suffering when someone tries to kill themselves? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now we're we're legalizing it and making it making it making it I mean I guess it's I don't know, man. Yeah. It' be interesting on the the the process they have to go through to get approved. Like how how easy is it? Is it like I just got to come in and be like Well, if 60,000 people are doing it, it's got to be know the right words.

Yeah. To get what you want. It's got It's got It's got it's got to be. Yeah. And I almost feel like it's kind of sold. sold. sold. Like if you think, hey, listen, you know, we have this option and we you go to sleep, you don't wake up, it's painless. I mean, terrible. Again, we got to be careful with this is where like you need, this is just evidence. There's so much more evidence of this, but you need a uh you need to believe in the um in an ultimate power because that's where you'll get your objective morality.

If we rely on ourselves, human reasoning goes crazy. We could rationalize so much insanity because I could make an argument right now. I could sit here right now make an argument that if you it's your life, it's your body, you can decide uh to kill yourself. And if you want someone else to do it and they agree to do it, then it's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. with that. with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It says they shelved it, Doug. Uh, I don't think so. This isn't 2024.

This is the same argument they used for like, like, like, let me double check that. Reducing the population. It's like, oh, okay. So, where? And how much you want to bet that that's part of the argument that they're like, it's a strain on the medical system. This is good for climate change and this is good for, you know, the medical care because it's cheaper and, you know, it's just all these rational like it's crazy. it's crazy. it's crazy. They they use this this weird morality behind it.

behind it. behind it. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So, it does sound like they shelved the medically assisted dying for people with mental illness. mental illness. mental illness. Yeah. Gee, I wonder why. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's a lot of people. That's alarming as hell. Yeah. To me, that's just wild. That would be sad if I had a family member that wanted to do that and then I find out, oh, the doctor did it for him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Furious. Anyway, Furious.

Anyway, Furious. Anyway, running on ketones gives you sharper thought process. It's good for your brain, improves verbal fluency, makes you feel good. But what if you want what if you don't want to be on a ketogenic diet? Well, you could try taking exogenous ketones. My favorite company is Ketone IQ. Take a little bit of that. Instant ketones, instant focus. Go check them out. Go to ketone.com/mindpump. Uh on that link, you can get 30% off your subscription. Here comes the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by Mindpump Fitness Coaching.

This is the number one course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build sustainable sixf figureure plus businesses and careers in fitness. Look, it's roundt based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers. By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification. Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. Our first caller is Matt from New York.

What's up, Matt? What's happening? What's going on, Matt? What's up, fellas? How we doing? Good. How can we help you? Doing very well. First, I just wanted to give the obligatory thank you for everything you guys do. My brother-in-law, he actually introduced me to you guys four years ago and haven't missed an episode since then. So, thanks. Uh, thank you. I'm actually now at the point where I went back to start listening like from the beginning. Oh, god. Oh, god. Oh, god. Absolute gems there. I don't know if you guys have played these back, but it's so cool to hear like you forecasting what you're going to do to grow the business and basically how much of that has come true.

Very, very cool. I appreciate. I appreciate. I appreciate. However, However, However, there is one thing that I need to bring to your attention. Doug, I apologize in advance. You are going to absolutely hate me for this. Oh, Oh, Oh, I'm up to episode 261. At the five minute and 15 second mark, Adam says, and I quote, "We eventually will build a mind pump gym, and when that day comes, you can hold me to this. I will make Doug rollerblade in tights, and we will video." No way we said that.

I had Oh, we are so making your ass do that, bro. bro. bro. Thank you for reminding us. Wow. I don't Yeah, Adam, I know you're a man of your words, so there you go. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Matt, I don't like you. You know, I know that you said email. That should be easy. Yeah, I know you said email. If I put that in there, you probably would have blocked me. blocked me. blocked me. Wow, dude. All right. Okay. So, now to my question.

Um, I'm currently bulking and I have a goal of adding one inch to my arms. According to my research, it looks like I need to gain roughly 10 to 20 pounds to do that. So, 32 years old, 5'11, 185 lbs. Uh, my nutrition has been dialed. currently eating 3,000 calories and been increasing roughly a half to one pound per week. Um, for the training, I was thinking of running aesthetic most recently. I've run MAPS 15 and powerlift. powerlift. powerlift. I just did phase one, day one, and it took me an hour and a half.

So, this is not a problem for me to do on the weekend. But for days two and three, I don't have that kind of time during the week. I wake up at 4 a.m. to get to the gym by 5 and need to be out of there by 5:45 6. So working out in the evening is also not an option. I wanted to know what's the best way to modify the program either splitting it up the days that I can't do fully or just doing the compound lifts for the foundational days then doing the focus session on biceps and back as those are my main lagging body parts.

Um and then just really quick after aesthetic my plans to run symmetry as I know I'm going to need to do some mobility work running from 15 to powerlift to aesthetic. So appreciate the guidance in advance. What do you think about uh maps anabolic advance instead of aesthetic? Yeah, that would be good. And aesthetic is a lot of volume, dude. For most people, it's really bodybuilding inspired. It's really bodybuilding inspired, like having that kind of time to to lift in the gym. the gym. the gym.

You could also just cut do aesthetic and cut the sets down by a third. So, when it asks for three, four sets, you do two uh and do it do something like that or cut out an exercise. I like cutting the sets down. I mean, I like just giving a map's anabolic advanced. anabolic advanced. anabolic advanced. Yeah, anabolic advance would be good, too. Do you have that program? No. And uh what does that look like? Is it also three days a week? Uh, anabolic advanced is four days a week if I'm not mistaken.

mistaken. mistaken. Okay. Okay. Okay. How many days a week do you want to go to the gym? I I actually like being in the gym every single day. So, like the plan right now is, you know, I would do like the foundational days if I'm able to do a full one. full one. full one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then do the, you know, do the focus session on the other day and then I do like recovery. So, I'll go and do mobility for a little bit or do son or something like that.

So, I like to be in the gym every single day. Not necessarily need to work out every single day. So, have you done you've done traditional an MAPS anabolic, right? right? right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, here's the other thing you could do. could do. could do. You could do he could do a blend. Yeah. You could also do MAPS anabolic traditional traditional traditional with focus days in between on the arms. And uh I would have you have you ever done occlusion training for your arms?

No. No. No. Oh, that'll that'll that'll give you a quarter inch on your arms like in weeks. Yeah. Up in up the Let me send you our occlusion guide. And then here's what you do at the end of one of your workouts. Not all of them, but one of them. You're going to do a few sets of occlusion for your biceps and triceps. and triceps. and triceps. And that that'll add that'll add a quarter inch fast. So here, so you got the the the breakdown here, right?

So you're going to basically run go back to anabolic, but then you're on instead of trigger days, you'll have focus days. So that's where you go and do light do like a light workout for biceps. So literally take from the MAPS aesthetic focus day program and make that your your trigger days on maps anabolic. So, run maps anabolic as laid out, but now add in focus days instead of trigger days. And then we're going to send the occlusion guide for you. And then like S's saying, just one of the days, end your workout with an occlusion uh uh a few sets of occlusion pump.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Awesome. And if you if you find yourself getting burnt out, cut it down a little bit. But that's it. You feed yourself well. I mean, that should that should you should be okay. Even that's less volume than aesthetic that we just prescribed. So that's it. And then keep going with what you're doing diet-wise. just keep trying to creep up a couple hundred, you know, calories every couple weeks to feed to feed the growth. Uh, but sounds like you're doing really good.

good. good. Awesome. I was sensing that with aesthetic. I mean, just doing the first day was like an hour and a half. The second day was also an hour and a half. Third day took me like an hour 15. And I just I don't think there's any way I could keep up with that with like the amount of limited availability I have in the morning. the morning. the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, aesthetics a lot of volume. It is. Yeah. This is perfect. And then I like your idea after that to go to symmetry like you said.

I think that's good advice. So run run the anabolic with the focus days. Get the send the occlusion guide and then after that do symmetry. You have symmetry. I do. Yep. Okay. Good. You're okay. All right, dude. Yeah, bro. Right on. Thanks, fell. I appreciate it. I'll make sure to get that video of Doug in his blades. Yeah. I'm sorry again, Doug. I appreciate it, though. Hey, good looking out, man. Good Christmas present. See you, man. All right. Thanks. Did he say episode 260 something? I don't remember that.

I don't remember that either. That's cool. I don't remember it either. No, we Oh, I Oh, it's it's documented, though. though. though. It's docu Well, you have to find it before I do anything like that. I don't know if I agreed to it either. Edit it. Edit it. Edit it. You may have just thrown that out there. That's cool that he said that we said we would do a bunch of things that we did. Now, I'm like curious to see. I know. Oh, of course we did.

You know, we remember I remember some of it. Early on we that one of the things I like I enjoyed that we did was we talked to the audience about the business moves. I remember telling them about turning down sponsors and no, we're not going to work with just any company. I remember the conversations around being a media company and and and us just really only having a podcast at that point, not having other media or even doing white label for part. I know it'd be interesting to hear some of the stuff that we uh some of the stuff we got.

But occlusion training, just for people listening, like uh this is a like this is one of the fastest ways I've ever added size to my arms and calves. Y like it's it's pretty remarkable. Low impact. Low impact. Low impact. Very very remarkable. We give it a shot. See what happen. It's super remarkable. It it's uh almost I remember how tempting it was to replace traditional. replace traditional. replace traditional. It won't do that. I mean it was it was that good though that it tempts you to like oh maybe I'll just do this and then you just do that and then you notice that like you miss the you but adding it just that little the right amount.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Our next caller is Sandy from Texas. Hi Sandy. Hi Sandy. Hi Sandy. How you doing Sandy? Oh hello. hello. hello. Hi. Nice to meet y'all. Yeah. How can I help you? Okay. So, do you want me to read my question? question? question? Yeah, whatever is easier for you. Okay. And I want to say thank you for taking my question. Um, I listen to y'all all the time and I've learned a lot from you. I don't know, probably the last couple years I've listened to you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, so, you know, my name is Sandy and I wanted to get your feedback on an issue I'm facing. I've been working out seriously for about 10 years. I'm sure more than that. Um I'm 59 now. When I was like 48 49 I one of my bucket list things was to do a bodybuilding competition competition competition um figure. So I started out by doing the bodybuilding.com workouts bodybuilding.com workouts bodybuilding.com workouts um back then. So and I got really great results.

Um I also followed macros. I was like crazy about that. and I hired various trainers who taught me a lot as well. Um, I've loved bodybuilding even when I was younger, but I never really was seriously into it. Um, I would con consider myself an active person throughout my whole life. Fast forward to the competition, I hired a coach and looking back, he was one of those people I think who would rather I would have been on peeds. He had me doing some things that I would never do now.

Uh, tons of cardio, probably too much. I would question him and he didn't like that. I did do the competition, but I was way too lean. I was 8% body fat. I looked terrible to be honest. Um, I did a second show the next year with a different trainer. I looked better, but still not good enough. Um, I was probably about 12% body fat. So, now I'm 59 and for the last year, just losing focus on training. Um, I started HRT recently and it was like the beginning of September to try to help out with the way I've been feeling.

I was dealing with a lot of fatigue, but then I thought maybe it's because I'm not working out a lot anymore. You know, I probably took a good five, six months where I didn't work out. Um, I'm still active, but or I was still active, but nowhere near what I was doing before. Um, my fiance, you know, we would work out together all the time, but he struggles a lot with stress, sleep, and injuries. injuries. injuries. Um, we did invest in a home gym, but I don't I like going to a gym more than having a home gym, if that makes sense.

Um, but he likes it cuz it's way more convenient for him. Um, so right now I'm currently at 140 and I'm guessing 23% body fat. Um, and I just the needle does not move. Um, I've been in 140 probably for the last two, three years. Um, I eat right. I track and work out, but nothing happens. Maybe one or two pounds. I want to be 130 and 16% body fat by May of next year for our wedding. What can I do? How can I make my body respond?

Is it my age? And then I sent you a couple of pictures of from 10 years ago. Okay. Where are your where your macros at right now? Well, right now I'm got them set at 1,800 calories. 1,800 calories. 1,800 calories. Um Um Um 128 protein, 170 carbs, and 57 fat. We need a reverse diet. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, we need to go up. We got to go up. Your calories are low. But let's let's Okay, let's back up for a second. Let's talk about healthy and fit.

Okay. You want to get down to 16% body fat, which is unhealthy for your wedding when you're and you're 59. 59. 59. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that that's not a a good place to be. First of all, that's not a good place to be for a 20-year-old, let alone someone who's 59. So, you're going to place yourself in a pretty unhealthy place to get down to 16% body fat. You want to live as a fit, healthy person, you want to live in the low 20s.

That's going to give you the best immunity. It's going to give you the best hormone response, the best energy, um the best strength, and objectively, you'll look your best. Although your what you consider what probably looks good is probably distorted because of your um involvement in bodybuilding that whole space which I understand cuz I can be the same way but you're the reason why the needle is not moving uh and is because you're in a good place. Now if you want the needle to move the direction I would move is to build strength and that's the that's the metric that I would measure.

I wouldn't look at body composition because your body comp if you're sitting at the low 20s uh at your age and and all that, you're you're crushing it. You're doing very very well. Let me let me put it this way. this way. this way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're 16% at 60 and you get injured or sick, you're in a bad place. bad place. bad place. You're not in a good place at all because 16% is too it's it's not it's not a good body fat percentage to be at if anything happens.

So just just to put it differently, but 21 to 24% fit, strong, fed, like excellent. And you'll and you'll be able to keep that uh for a very very long time. Your body's holding though where it's at because you're so low calorie, though. 1,800 calories if you're active and you're lifting weights is not a lot of calories. calories. calories. How many days a week are you working out right now? right now? right now? Well, I've switched to four days a week because I can't do five, six, seven days anymore.

It's just too much. So, I switched to four and that's working out for me now cuz it's been about 3 months since I wrote the letter and since I've been on my HRT, which started in September, I've also added testosterone and I have noticed a difference. Yeah. Yeah, you will be strength. Be careful though because that's a that's a an outside signal that's telling you that that's not you necessarily being that much healthier. you add testosterone to somebody who's not in the healthiest of place, they will feel better.

So, I would rather see you at three times a week like a MAPS anabolic and then I'm going to bump your calories to 2,000 plus calories. Your your body's going to respond so well. It will you have so much muscle. You're lifting weights four days a week uh at 1,800 calories. You're you're you're I'm surprised you're able to do that still. And you're probably not feeling great. Well, I know you're not feeling great because your calories are so low. I mean, I would automatically I would bump you automatically 250 calories a day and drop your training.

But if that's too much for you all at once, then keep four days a week and just bump 250 with your calories. Get your fat up. 57 grams for a woman is is low, especially one that strength trains. Bump your fat up and then and then watch how you feel. Watch your strength. I wouldn't be surprised if you got leaner. Bail on the scale, too, cuz I don't really care about where your scale goes right now cuz we're going to build some muscle. So, we're going to go up and and maybe on the scale one or two pounds, but it's going to be muscle and your metabolism will get faster, which will eventually lean you out.

Now, let's pause for a second, Sandy, because you just heard what we had to say, which is right. I I'm confident that it's right. But how does what I'm saying and what Adam's saying feel because I can see right now in your body that something's happening. Some reserves. reserves. reserves. Yeah. What's going on? How you feeling? What What What do feel good? And trust me, I don't always eat 1,800 calories. I'm sure there's days I eat 2,000. It's not often because I can't eat I've never eaten that much food.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I feel I do feel good. No, you don't. Um Um Um No, you don't. You just You don't know. You don't know what you feeling really good feels like yet. You're adapted to what you feel. Yeah, but I'm not going to No, no, stop right there. We have you on recording. You just told us you don't feel good. Are you scared? What are you scared of? What are you afraid of? Bump your calories up to 2200 calories. What do you think's going to happen?

It'll look like I might be uncomfortable in my own like I don't like to look like I weigh a lot. Okay, if that makes sense. So, let's pause. Okay. Uh you you think you're going to gain a lot of body fat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, you think you're going to gain a lot of body fat, but then you're also g maybe going to be uncomfortable. One of those is going to happen for sure. That's the uncomfortable part. The body fat's not going to happen. I'm going to tell you that right now.

If you go up 250 calories, you're not going to blow up. up. up. No, No, No, that's not going to happen. Doesn't doesn't work that way. It's physiologically impossible anyway. But it's not going to happen. Especially if you're lifting weights. If you're lifting weights, I didn't have that. that. that. But the uncomfortable part, you're going to feel for sure. But to you're going to feel for sure. But I'm going to strengthen you a little bit right now. Okay? You like lifting weights. weights. weights. You like being uncomfortable so long as you agree to it.

So, you probably like lifting weights because it changes your body. It's a challenge. It's the discipline, right? We love that. Can I add some more discomfort to what you're doing to challenge that part of you? you? you? Can we do that? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I want Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I I want to see a change. change. change. Okay. I want you to bump your calories and I want you to get comfortable being uncomfortable with it because it's going to feel like a lot of food.

You're and you're going to question the hell out of it. it. it. Sandy, are you open to working with somebody like a trainer like one of our trainers? Yeah. I mean, I like I said, I I do enjoy learning from other people. It's not just, you know, like reverse. It's just not that. It's that what we're asking you to do is real easy for us to say on a yeah on a a call real quick and hang up. But the a lot of conver the uncomfortable part when you're going through it is what is really difficult.

And just having a coach who you're checking in with on a regular basis that's reminding you that you're doing the right thing, you're doing a good job when your head is getting in your own way and you're going I don't think you lack the discipline. I don't think you lack the smarts. I think you've been in this world long enough to get macros idea and understand that. I think psychologically it'll be the most difficult part and the most valuable part of the coach isn't necessarily teaching you new stuff, but it's getting you out of your own way is why I want you to work with one of our coaches.

Okay. Yeah. Because I've already tried not weighing myself. that that was that always made me so um disappointed like gosh I'm doing all everything else right why and I'm busting myself up about a scale scale scale so so so Sandy how would you like to have a relationship with this where it's not stressful like you love it but imagine if we got rid of the stress how would you like that yeah that would be great okay it's it's there if you trust It's there. It's going to take though.

And here's what will happen. You trust the coach. coach. coach. You just trust the coach. You go with it through the discomfort, through all the the you're questioning it and it feels wrong and I don't know. But then once you start to see what happens and you feel the transformation, which will take a second, then it's not going to be as hard anymore because then you'll be like, "Okay, I can I can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel." And then the longer you stay with it, the more revelating it's going to become and then this whole thing's going to change for you.

The only other thing I worry about is like holidays and what if I don't do my diet 100% right? Like stress about those things. things. things. No, no. Good timing. It's good timing right now. We're we're going to reverse diet with holidays. Calories. Yeah. Calories. Yeah. Calories. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. This is the best time to do it. do it. do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You're in a good place. Okay. And I've never reverse dieted, so I don't even know what to do. That's right. That's why.

Don't worry if you just if you promise me that you'll trust our coaches to do it. They've all been trained by us. Okay. So, they know what to do with you. If you just trust us, we'll take care of you. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Yeah, I'll I'll try that. All right. We're going to have you back on in 3 months, have you back on here, and you know what you're going to tell me? me? me? Oh my god, that was so hard.

That was so I can't But oh my gosh, I can't believe it. I feel so good. Yeah, you guys were right. That's what's going to happen. In three months, we're going to have you back on. back on. back on. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Stick with it. We have one trainers call you. do it. Thank you, Sandy. Thank Thank you so much. You got it. She's terrified. She's terrified. She's terrified. Yeah, she is. That's why she has I hope she doesn't bail on. She's ter I can tell as I'm talking to her, she's like, "Yeah, "Yeah, "Yeah, well, you hear she's never reverse dieted." dieted." dieted." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I I need I need people to understand this right now. I need women to understand this right now. You're working out a lot. Four days a week with the kind of lifting she's doing, I can guarantee you is a lot. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And you have a normal life. She's doing 5 days a week. She's sitting at 23% body fat, which is great. Which is a great body. And you're eating 18800 calories a day. Too low. Too low. Too low.

You can't build too low. You can't build on that. on that. on that. No, you could do that for a short period of time. Yeah. But not all the time. As she said, I've never been on a reverse diet. I bet. And she's like, and then here's the other side of it. I want people and this you may do this to yourself. She tried to back out of it after she would just told us she didn't feel good. She back. She's like, "Oh, no, but you know, sometimes I hit 2,000 and I feel good." I'm like, "No, you just told me you don't." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We like We like We like Not to mention 2,000 once in a while is not a surplus. I gu I bet you it's 1,600 sometimes too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so yeah, yeah, yeah, it takes discomfort to change. These are success stories that I love. Oh, no. You take someone like she's got [ __ ] If you saw her picture, she had great muscle mass. My god. So you put some You give that girl some calories. calories. calories. She's a her muscles are sponges waiting for some water, waiting for those nutrients.

hungry for but she's she's got to bail on the scale cuz that will mess with her head cuz she'll probably go up on the scale 5 lbs just building muscle alone. muscle alone. muscle alone. She's going to feel uncomfortable once she gets over that and past that her fast metabolism. She'll look better than she's ever looked. She'll be eating more than she's ever ate. And she won't have this crazy stressful relationship with fitness. Get rid of it. it. it. We believe in you, Sandy. Our next caller is Jason from North Carolina.

Carolina. Carolina. What's up, Jason? How you doing, Jason? What's up, buddy? Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks so much for everything you guys do. I really appreciate you having me on. Yeah, man. How can we help you? Well, I'll give you a little bit of background about me. I'm 44 years old, and when I turned 40, I got really sick. And uh and let me back up a little bit more. Sorry. I um I grew up as a heavy kid, overweight, and then I ended up as an adult weighing 305 lbs at the age of uh 20, and I was 5'7.

And so, I thought, well, I got to do something. And so I did exactly what you guys talk about. I restricted my diet. I overtrained and I got down to about 185 lbs. But by that time I was eating 1,600 calories a day, working out 6 days a week. So as you can imagine, I I started a pattern of uh gaining and losing, gaining and losing. So I was the classic yo-yo der. And um when I was 40 years old, I was back up to 306, my heaviest ever.

And I got really sick. That was 2021. And so I ended up in the hospital with COVID and uh was really bad case. Uh they ended up sedating me for 6 weeks. I was on a ventilator. Wow. Wow. Wow. And when I when I woke up, I was all out of it as you can imagine. All all kinds of drugs and whatever else. And they I remember them weighing me and it was like 246 lbs. And I thought, well, I lost 60 lbs, but that's not the right way to do it.

But, you know, I I woke up, I couldn't walk, I couldn't talk. I had to redo, relearn all that stuff. Went through severe deconditioning. Went through bouts of physical therapy. But eventually I was up and around. Got back home, got off oxygen, totally healthy. In fact, I was the only one in that hospital who got that sick who survived. The rest, none of them made it, unfortunately. Wow. And so I credit everything to God. I call it a miracle. Even the doctors and the nurses said, "No, Jason, you're a miracle." Um, there was one other guy who made out made it out alive, but he died last year from complications.

And I'm really blessed. I have no lingering symptoms. I'm totally totally healed. My lungs are are back to normal. But I knew I wanted to get back in shape. And so, um, earlier this year, uh, I had been doing, you know, just trying to restrict calories again, trying to go to the gym, and I thought, I got to do it the right way. This isn't going to work. I don't want to. I was sick and tired of yo-yo dieting as you guys can imagine. You probably hear it.

You probably heard it numerous times. And so I remembered seeing Zubie on a show. I said, "What was that show Zubie was on where he was talking about breaking the deadlift record, the women's uh deadlift record?" Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And I was like, "Wait a minute. That was called Mind Pump." So I'm like, "Maybe these guys know what they're talking about." cuz I I had read books and I I'd you know been working out my whole life but I always fell into that pattern of undereating and overtraining and so I started listening to you guys.

Uh that was April of this year so I'm I'm new to the show but I love it and I I keep trying to listen to as many back episodes as I can. So I started eating more which was really scary because you always think man I got to eat less if I want to weigh less. started I started basically uh following your example of doing like a reverse diet and then the scale started coming down. When I started I was 276 and as of uh last week I was 235 and I'm eating more than I've ever eaten like 33 3500 calories a day, 200 g of protein a day.

And so far the scale is still moving down and my strength is still going up. I added 110 lbs to my deadlift, 140 lbs to my squat. So, I'm like, I'm I'm I'm seeing all these things happening that you guys are talking about. talking about. talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, well, is this going to keep going or do I need to change something up? And I guess that's kind of my question. So far, things are still going well. But a couple of rules I'm breaking is I'm in the gym 5 days a week.

I do three days a week on the big five and then that's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Tuesday, and Thursday I do arms. So, I'm like, well, I don't want to get to a point where I'm overtraining again. again. again. So, what do you guys think? I mean, you're doing pretty good. I I'll give you a program so you have one of ours. They'll follow. But but what you're doing ain't a bad deal at all. I like it. You're getting stronger. You're feeding yourself. You feel good.

You're doing good. good. good. You're doing great, dude. What's the calories at right now? Do you know? know? know? Yeah. About 3,500 calories a day. Yeah, brother. Yeah, brother. Yeah, brother. You're killing it. You're killing it, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. And I know some people who are are not eating as much as me, and they're like, "How how come you keep getting smaller?" I'm like, "You got to eat more." Yeah. So, but it's scary especially when you've yo-yo dieted your entire adult life.

life. life. But I'm like, well, I'll be eating the I try to do exactly what you guys say, too. I got off protein powers. I'm just doing whole natural foods. Good [ __ ] man. Yeah. I'm like, um, I'm chicken, beef, and pork enemy number one because I'm just have their carcasses at my house all the time. time. time. Oh, man. You're doing great, dude. Hell yeah. yeah. yeah. So good, bro. No, dude. No, dude. No, dude. So good. So good. So good. I'll send you a program.

I'll give you map symmetry. I think you'll like it. Cool. Cool. Cool. And when you're ready, you can follow that. Uh and then when you're done with that, you can take a look at some of our other programs. Maps Anabolic, Anabolic Advance, Performance, Advance, Performance, Advance, Performance, Strong, uh Power Lift, those Okay, why don't we do this Okay, why don't we do this since this is a good time. We'll send him the Symmetry, but why don't we line up what what you would put him do in the next two to three in a row?

This is a good time right now. You got Black Friday going on. Everything's freaking 60% off anyways. What would you line up his next like four programs after Symmetry? Uh uh. Oo. Uh powerlift. Uh I like powerlift for you. Then I like performance performance performance there. After that, then go to something like maps anabolic advanced. Anabolic advanced Anabolic advanced Anabolic advanced and then Yeah. So we just gave you like a year a year a year that'll keep you busy for the next year like that order right there.

Yep. Yep. Yep. So So So Well, I appreciate it, guys. Yeah, you got it, dude. And keep going in the direction you're going. You feel good. the the challenge when you're crushing it crushing it crushing it is what you just expressed. Uh am I doing enough? Should I do more? Uh but if you see yourself improving in the gym especially, and you feel good, you're lean into it. Yeah, dude. You're doing great. How's your uh how's your uh steps, daily activity? What do you what do you hit on a regular basis?

Do you any idea? Well, unfortunately, I'm sitting right here at work, so I sit at a desk. So, I'm lucky and I probably do it more than half of the days I hit about 8,000, but a lot of days it's more like 6,500. That would be the one place that that would be your one place. It's just a just a just a 8 8,000 steps consistently. That'll be great for your health. Yeah. Pick up pick up the walking when you can. Not run, not do a bunch of crazy stuff.

Just just add some walks when whenever you can. That's it, dude. Cool. That's that's good cuz I hate running. running. running. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. No, you're do you're doing really good. You just keep getting strong. You keep hitting that protein intake. You keep those calories around there. You're going to be good. Jason, what do you do for work if you don't mind me asking? I'm a financial adviser. Oh, good for you, dude. Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Uh maybe you don't have an answer for this, but you you talked about the miracle uh that it was uh you gave God the glory with that, and I do believe it's a miracle just from what you're saying.

Uh do you have you put a purpose behind that? Is there is there something behind that where you're like, "Okay, this is this is why I was taken out of that. This is why I survived." Uh, and the only reason why I ask is when you put a purpose behind something, man, it's it's one of the best feelings in the world. Well, um, you know, it's obviously something I've been wrestling with. It's like, well, God, why didn't you spare me when pretty much no one else made it out of that hospital?

And one of the first things that comes up is I'm a father of four. four. four. Oh, Oh, Oh, and I'm I'm just trying to raise them in the ways of the Lord. I mean, I love hearing about your journey, S. I've been walking with Jesus for 23 years now. So it's it's the greatest thing anyone could do. So that's my purpose. And I do bless. bless. bless. Yes. And I teach Bible studies and I but the main thing is my children, you know, my family.

my family. my family. Oh, God bless, man. I'm glad you shared that. that. that. That's more than enough purpose right there. there. there. That's wonderful, dude. Good for you, man. man. man. Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. Good for you, dude. Yeah. Stay in touch, dude. I love to hear as you go through the programs. You're kicking ass right now, man. Thanks, guys. Thanks for all you do. You got it on. I'm so glad he shared that. What a wonderful story. I'm just so glad he shared that because what a wonderful story.

story. story. It works. It works. It works. It works everybody. He did. He went down 1,600 calories up to 3500 calories, dropping weight, added 100 lb energy, feeling good. Come on. Come on. And which one's more sustainable, ladies and gentlemen? Uh which one is the one that's going to be he'll be able to, you know, maintain? Uh and which one feels good? good? good? Yeah, dude. 30 at a a 3500 calorie daily intake. The metabolic flexibility that comes with that, which you don't even have to go that high.

You don't even have to go that high at 5'7, but his body is roaring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so it's it's great. Yeah. It's awesome. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Walking. It's one of the best things you could do for your health, bar none. But there's a better way to approach it. Yes, you can just walk, but if you follow the right protocol, it's far more effective. Let's talk about talk about talk about walking. I can't wait to hear your walking protocol.

walking protocol. walking protocol. Well, there is a Well, there is a protocol. So, and I'll start with the first thing, right? Because just first off, uh let me start with this. One of the reasons why walking um is such a great form of just activity is because it's low risk of injury. Now,