How to Quiet the Ruminative Mind and Avoid The Traps of Self-Help — Tim Ferriss

You want to play soccer, but first You want to play soccer, but first you're going to read all the textbooks you're going to read all the textbooks you're going to read all the textbooks and get a master's degree and PhD in and get a master's degree and PhD in and get a master's degree and PhD in soccer. And then you're going to soccer. And then you're going to soccer. And then you're going to practice dribbling and penalty shots and practice dribbling and penalty shots and practice dribbling and penalty shots and so on by yourself. And you want to so on by yourself. And you want to so on by yourself. And you want to become as perfect a player as possible become as perfect a player as possible become as perfect a player as possible by yourself before you ever actually get by yourself before you ever actually get by yourself before you ever actually get on the field and play the game of on the field and play the game of on the field and play the game of soccer. And you can start to believe soccer. And you can start to believe soccer. And you can start to believe that you're playing soccer by yourself. that you're playing soccer by yourself. that you're playing soccer by yourself. There's always more room for There's always more room for There's always more room for improvement. You're never going to be improvement. You're never going to be improvement. You're never going to be perfect. And if you get caught in that perfect. And if you get caught in that perfect. And if you get caught in that trap, which is the partial trap of trap, which is the partial trap of trap, which is the partial trap of self-help, you're always polishing this self-help, you're always polishing this self-help, you're always polishing this self and you never actually [ __ ] play self and you never actually [ __ ] play self and you never actually [ __ ] play soccer. [laughter] >> Tim Ferrris, welcome back to the show. >> Tim Ferrris, welcome back to the show. >> Thank you, sir. Nice to be back. Nice to >> Thank you, sir. Nice to be back. Nice to >> Thank you, sir. Nice to be back. Nice to see you. see you. see you. >> Likewise. Let me ask you a a a >> Likewise. Let me ask you a a a >> Likewise. Let me ask you a a a ridiculously basic question, but I think ridiculously basic question, but I think ridiculously basic question, but I think maybe deceptively um simple. I actually maybe deceptively um simple. I actually maybe deceptively um simple. I actually never know how to say. Is it deceptively never know how to say. Is it deceptively never know how to say. Is it deceptively complex or deceptively simple? Anyway, complex or deceptively simple? Anyway, complex or deceptively simple? Anyway, um my question really is how are you? um my question really is how are you? um my question really is how are you? Like how you doing these days? Um uh Like how you doing these days? Um uh Like how you doing these days? Um uh you've you've you've you've you've you've >> you've publicly kind of gone on a on a >> you've publicly kind of gone on a on a >> you've publicly kind of gone on a on a ride um with your own uh talking about ride um with your own uh talking about ride um with your own uh talking about your own stuff, some of it quite heavy. your own stuff, some of it quite heavy. your own stuff, some of it quite heavy. So, I'm just curious like how how are So, I'm just curious like how how are So, I'm just curious like how how are you? you? you? >> That is a both deceptively simple and >> That is a both deceptively simple and >> That is a both deceptively simple and complex question. My answer thankfully complex question. My answer thankfully complex question. My answer thankfully is really straightforward. Better than is really straightforward. Better than is really straightforward. Better than ever. I feel absolutely fantastic. We ever. I feel absolutely fantastic. We ever. I feel absolutely fantastic. We could dive into how and why that's the could dive into how and why that's the could dive into how and why that's the case if you'd like. But I would say case if you'd like. But I would say case if you'd like. But I would say keeping it short and sweet for the keeping it short and sweet for the keeping it short and sweet for the moment, I would say fantastic, better moment, I would say fantastic, better moment, I would say fantastic, better than ever. mind, body, soul, psycho, than ever. mind, body, soul, psycho, than ever. mind, body, soul, psycho, emotionally, emotionally, emotionally, muscular, skeletally. [laughter] muscular, skeletally. [laughter] muscular, skeletally. [laughter] Uh really feeling uh holistically very Uh really feeling uh holistically very Uh really feeling uh holistically very good, optimistic, good, optimistic, good, optimistic, and and and we could keep going. So, I'll let you we could keep going. So, I'll let you we could keep going. So, I'll let you take that anywhere you'd like to. take that anywhere you'd like to. take that anywhere you'd like to. >> I love to hear it. And uh seriously, I >> I love to hear it. And uh seriously, I >> I love to hear it. And uh seriously, I really do love to hear it. And I would really do love to hear it. And I would really do love to hear it. And I would be curious to follow up and hear from be curious to follow up and hear from be curious to follow up and hear from you like what what has brought you to you like what what has brought you to you like what what has brought you to this point. this point. this point. >> Mhm. Yeah, I would say a few things. So, >> Mhm. Yeah, I would say a few things. So, >> Mhm. Yeah, I would say a few things. So, [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] one of the risks of one of the risks of one of the risks of personal development or let's just call personal development or let's just call personal development or let's just call it more broadly self-help is that it can it more broadly self-help is that it can it more broadly self-help is that it can very easily [clears throat] become very easily [clears throat] become very easily [clears throat] become self-infatuation or self-obsession. self-infatuation or self-obsession. self-infatuation or self-obsession. And the And the And the counterbalance to that, the bet that counterbalance to that, the bet that counterbalance to that, the bet that offsets it isun, offsets it isun, offsets it isun, it's very simple, relationships. Really it's very simple, relationships. Really it's very simple, relationships. Really doubling down, tripling down on doubling down, tripling down on doubling down, tripling down on relationships. We are evolved to be a relationships. We are evolved to be a relationships. We are evolved to be a social species. And whenever you are in social species. And whenever you are in social species. And whenever you are in isolation physically or simply in isolation physically or simply in isolation physically or simply in thought loops in your own head, that thought loops in your own head, that thought loops in your own head, that tends to catalyze or tends to catalyze or tends to catalyze or worsen tremendously any type of worsen tremendously any type of worsen tremendously any type of instability or OCD or depression or instability or OCD or depression or instability or OCD or depression or anxiety or fill-in- thelank psychiatric anxiety or fill-in- thelank psychiatric anxiety or fill-in- thelank psychiatric condition. So condition. So condition. So my my my policies that which were already in policies that which were already in policies that which were already in place last time we spoke that I have place last time we spoke that I have place last time we spoke that I have really really really continued to invest into are doing a continued to invest into are doing a continued to invest into are doing a past year review every year looking at past year review every year looking at past year review every year looking at my top relationships that are nourishing my top relationships that are nourishing my top relationships that are nourishing energizing energy in as opposed to energizing energy in as opposed to energizing energy in as opposed to energy out and then blocking out time in energy out and then blocking out time in energy out and then blocking out time in advance for the entire year for extended advance for the entire year for extended advance for the entire year for extended periods of time with those people. Now, periods of time with those people. Now, periods of time with those people. Now, extended will depend on your extended will depend on your extended will depend on your circumstances. For me, that could be circumstances. For me, that could be circumstances. For me, that could be anywhere from a long weekend to a week anywhere from a long weekend to a week anywhere from a long weekend to a week spending, say, 5 days in the wilderness spending, say, 5 days in the wilderness spending, say, 5 days in the wilderness in Montana with some of my oldest, in Montana with some of my oldest, in Montana with some of my oldest, closest friends, etc., etc. And that closest friends, etc., etc. And that closest friends, etc., etc. And that will do. Not to denigrate therapy in any will do. Not to denigrate therapy in any will do. Not to denigrate therapy in any way, but sometimes talking more about way, but sometimes talking more about way, but sometimes talking more about your problems if it were to solve all of your problems if it were to solve all of your problems if it were to solve all of your problems would have worked already. your problems would have worked already. your problems would have worked already. And there's a place for talk therapy. And there's a place for talk therapy. And there's a place for talk therapy. There's a place for talk therapy, but it There's a place for talk therapy, but it There's a place for talk therapy, but it is not, nor does it need to be the only is not, nor does it need to be the only is not, nor does it need to be the only tool in the toolkit. So simply spending tool in the toolkit. So simply spending tool in the toolkit. So simply spending time around your silly, dumb, amazing time around your silly, dumb, amazing time around your silly, dumb, amazing friends and laughing, whether it's friends and laughing, whether it's friends and laughing, whether it's around a bottle of wine or a meal or a around a bottle of wine or a meal or a around a bottle of wine or a meal or a campfire really, really goes a long way. campfire really, really goes a long way. campfire really, really goes a long way. So that's one piece of it. So that's one piece of it. So that's one piece of it. Second piece is to maybe uh hit a Second piece is to maybe uh hit a Second piece is to maybe uh hit a familiar thread is very consistent familiar thread is very consistent familiar thread is very consistent meditation meditation meditation typically twice daily 10 minutes very typically twice daily 10 minutes very typically twice daily 10 minutes very very straightforward very straightforward very straightforward in my case and then also if we're going in my case and then also if we're going in my case and then also if we're going out to the edges a bit technologically out to the edges a bit technologically out to the edges a bit technologically speaking speaking speaking there is something that some of your there is something that some of your there is something that some of your listeners may have never heard of which listeners may have never heard of which listeners may have never heard of which is accelerated TMS. TMS stands for is accelerated TMS. TMS stands for is accelerated TMS. TMS stands for transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's a type of brain stimulation a type of brain stimulation a type of brain stimulation that has existed for decades. But the that has existed for decades. But the that has existed for decades. But the hardware and the software, everything hardware and the software, everything hardware and the software, everything about these technologies has improved about these technologies has improved about these technologies has improved dramatically in the last 5 to 10 years, dramatically in the last 5 to 10 years, dramatically in the last 5 to 10 years, particularly in I would say the last 5 particularly in I would say the last 5 particularly in I would say the last 5 years thanks to certain researchers like years thanks to certain researchers like years thanks to certain researchers like Nolan Williams out of Stanford who sadly Nolan Williams out of Stanford who sadly Nolan Williams out of Stanford who sadly passed away in the last 6 months and passed away in the last 6 months and passed away in the last 6 months and others. But what accelerated TMS looks others. But what accelerated TMS looks others. But what accelerated TMS looks like is typically up to, let's just call like is typically up to, let's just call like is typically up to, let's just call it maybe one or two years ago. it maybe one or two years ago. it maybe one or two years ago. Accelerated TMS takes Accelerated TMS takes Accelerated TMS takes what you might do in conventional TMS what you might do in conventional TMS what you might do in conventional TMS over several months where you go in and over several months where you go in and over several months where you go in and you you have this paddle put against you you have this paddle put against you you have this paddle put against your head. It produces a magnetic field your head. It produces a magnetic field your head. It produces a magnetic field that just to keep it very simple either that just to keep it very simple either that just to keep it very simple either uh excites or inhibits certain parts of uh excites or inhibits certain parts of uh excites or inhibits certain parts of your brain, certain types of circuitry. your brain, certain types of circuitry. your brain, certain types of circuitry. And that can be applied to depression, And that can be applied to depression, And that can be applied to depression, it can be applied to neurodeenerative it can be applied to neurodeenerative it can be applied to neurodeenerative diseases. In fact, in some cases, it can diseases. In fact, in some cases, it can diseases. In fact, in some cases, it can be applied to anxiety, OCD, and so on be applied to anxiety, OCD, and so on be applied to anxiety, OCD, and so on depending on the target where where you depending on the target where where you depending on the target where where you place these coils. place these coils. place these coils. And in the case of accelerated TMS, And in the case of accelerated TMS, And in the case of accelerated TMS, you're taking what you might do over 3 4 you're taking what you might do over 3 4 you're taking what you might do over 3 4 5 months and you're compressing it into 5 months and you're compressing it into 5 months and you're compressing it into one week. So every hour on the hour, 10 one week. So every hour on the hour, 10 one week. So every hour on the hour, 10 hours a day for one week, you're going hours a day for one week, you're going hours a day for one week, you're going in and getting, let's just call it a few in and getting, let's just call it a few in and getting, let's just call it a few minutes, 3 to 9 minutes of pulses on minutes, 3 to 9 minutes of pulses on minutes, 3 to 9 minutes of pulses on your brain. And then you take 50 minutes your brain. And then you take 50 minutes your brain. And then you take 50 minutes off, you go back in, you get hit again. off, you go back in, you get hit again. off, you go back in, you get hit again. And that has been referred to at least And that has been referred to at least And that has been referred to at least in one format, the Saint protocol. S A I in one format, the Saint protocol. S A I in one format, the Saint protocol. S A I N T. They've shied away from it, but it N T. They've shied away from it, but it N T. They've shied away from it, but it was developed at Stanford. And the Saint was developed at Stanford. And the Saint was developed at Stanford. And the Saint protocol in many, let's call them protocol in many, let's call them protocol in many, let's call them patients produces patients produces patients produces 70 80% remission of depression that is 70 80% remission of depression that is 70 80% remission of depression that is quite durable. It's not one shot, you're quite durable. It's not one shot, you're quite durable. It's not one shot, you're done. done. done. Typically, people will, let's just say, Typically, people will, let's just say, Typically, people will, let's just say, do a 5-day sequence. Then they might go do a 5-day sequence. Then they might go do a 5-day sequence. Then they might go in and have one to three-day booster in and have one to three-day booster in and have one to three-day booster sequences 3 months, 6 months later. Um, sequences 3 months, 6 months later. Um, sequences 3 months, 6 months later. Um, and and and this technology has tremendous effects. this technology has tremendous effects. this technology has tremendous effects. I've experimented with this over the I've experimented with this over the I've experimented with this over the last handful of years, and the first last handful of years, and the first last handful of years, and the first time I did it, it had near miraculous time I did it, it had near miraculous time I did it, it had near miraculous results. I had I went from having results. I had I went from having results. I had I went from having severe and I've been officially severe and I've been officially severe and I've been officially diagnosed so this is not uh just diagnosed so this is not uh just diagnosed so this is not uh just throwing it around loosely but you know throwing it around loosely but you know throwing it around loosely but you know moderate severe OCD with lots of moderate severe OCD with lots of moderate severe OCD with lots of rumination. I'm not flipping light rumination. I'm not flipping light rumination. I'm not flipping light switches or washing my hands but I have switches or washing my hands but I have switches or washing my hands but I have these ruminative loops that I get caught these ruminative loops that I get caught these ruminative loops that I get caught in. People I'm sure some listening can in. People I'm sure some listening can in. People I'm sure some listening can identify with this where you just can't identify with this where you just can't identify with this where you just can't turn off these kind of compulsive turn off these kind of compulsive turn off these kind of compulsive thought loops. Could be a grudge, could thought loops. Could be a grudge, could thought loops. Could be a grudge, could be a fear, could be something you're be a fear, could be something you're be a fear, could be something you're planning for, could be a conversation planning for, could be a conversation planning for, could be a conversation you need to have. It just loops and you need to have. It just loops and you need to have. It just loops and loops and loops, which causes insomnia, loops and loops, which causes insomnia, loops and loops, which causes insomnia, which causes which causes which causes uh fatigue and just general uh fatigue and just general uh fatigue and just general uh the general wearing down of the uh the general wearing down of the uh the general wearing down of the system, which leads to depression. system, which leads to depression. system, which leads to depression. That's I've realized that's my sequence. That's I've realized that's my sequence. That's I've realized that's my sequence. It actually starts with anxiety, not It actually starts with anxiety, not It actually starts with anxiety, not depression out of the gate. [snorts] depression out of the gate. [snorts] depression out of the gate. [snorts] And I was having, let's just call it And I was having, let's just call it And I was having, let's just call it seven, eight out of 10 symptoms when I seven, eight out of 10 symptoms when I seven, eight out of 10 symptoms when I went in to the first treatment I did of went in to the first treatment I did of went in to the first treatment I did of 5 days. That's really severe for people 5 days. That's really severe for people 5 days. That's really severe for people who are who are who are not clear. Like, it's really, really not clear. Like, it's really, really not clear. Like, it's really, really severe. Like, it's affecting every severe. Like, it's affecting every severe. Like, it's affecting every aspect of my life. Had the treatment, aspect of my life. Had the treatment, aspect of my life. Had the treatment, there was a delayed onset. And even the there was a delayed onset. And even the there was a delayed onset. And even the scientists most involved with this don't scientists most involved with this don't scientists most involved with this don't really have a great explanation for how really have a great explanation for how really have a great explanation for how or why this would happen. But nothing or why this would happen. But nothing or why this would happen. But nothing really happened for 2, three weeks. and really happened for 2, three weeks. and really happened for 2, three weeks. and [clears throat] then [clears throat] then [clears throat] then flipped a switch and had basically zero flipped a switch and had basically zero flipped a switch and had basically zero anxiety, zero rumination for let's call anxiety, zero rumination for let's call anxiety, zero rumination for let's call it 3 to 4 months. I've never experienced it 3 to 4 months. I've never experienced it 3 to 4 months. I've never experienced anything like it. And that includes anything like it. And that includes anything like it. And that includes psychedelic assisted therapies which I psychedelic assisted therapies which I psychedelic assisted therapies which I know very well and have supported a lot know very well and have supported a lot know very well and have supported a lot of science u underlying. of science u underlying. of science u underlying. Now this is a bit of a long answer I Now this is a bit of a long answer I Now this is a bit of a long answer I realize but for people who are realize but for people who are realize but for people who are interested I really recommend the interested I really recommend the interested I really recommend the conversation I did with Nolan Williams. conversation I did with Nolan Williams. conversation I did with Nolan Williams. Then there are different types of Then there are different types of Then there are different types of hardware. But I tried it then with hardware. But I tried it then with hardware. But I tried it then with boosters several times afterwards. Null boosters several times afterwards. Null boosters several times afterwards. Null effect. Zero. Didn't work. effect. Zero. Didn't work. effect. Zero. Didn't work. >> And I started to >> And I started to >> And I started to lose hope again because I thought this lose hope again because I thought this lose hope again because I thought this was going to be a replicable, was going to be a replicable, was going to be a replicable, reliable tool that I could use. I was so reliable tool that I could use. I was so reliable tool that I could use. I was so excited. excited. excited. And then I did a hailmary kind of last And then I did a hailmary kind of last And then I did a hailmary kind of last ditch ditch ditch round with the accelerated TMS recently. round with the accelerated TMS recently. round with the accelerated TMS recently. I did this in Northern California. And I did this in Northern California. And I did this in Northern California. And instead of doing 5 days, so keep in mind instead of doing 5 days, so keep in mind instead of doing 5 days, so keep in mind it's like, let's just call it 3 months it's like, let's just call it 3 months it's like, let's just call it 3 months of TMS gets compressed into 5 days. of TMS gets compressed into 5 days. of TMS gets compressed into 5 days. Instead of doing five days, I did one Instead of doing five days, I did one Instead of doing five days, I did one day, but I predosed with something day, but I predosed with something day, but I predosed with something called descloer. called descloer. called descloer. And descerion And descerion And descerion or [snorts] DCS as it's sometimes or [snorts] DCS as it's sometimes or [snorts] DCS as it's sometimes referred to in the literature is a in referred to in the literature is a in referred to in the literature is a in many ways an antiquated antibiotic that many ways an antiquated antibiotic that many ways an antiquated antibiotic that used to be used for tuberculosis used to be used for tuberculosis used to be used for tuberculosis uh and sometimes urinary tract uh and sometimes urinary tract uh and sometimes urinary tract infections which affects the NMDA infections which affects the NMDA infections which affects the NMDA receptors in such a way. I think it's a receptors in such a way. I think it's a receptors in such a way. I think it's a partial antagonist. It might be an partial antagonist. It might be an partial antagonist. It might be an agonist so don't quote me on it. But the agonist so don't quote me on it. But the agonist so don't quote me on it. But the the point is this this little drug that the point is this this little drug that the point is this this little drug that is not typically used anymore is not typically used anymore is not typically used anymore is a catalyst for neuroplasticity. is a catalyst for neuroplasticity. is a catalyst for neuroplasticity. And when you take this beforehand, And when you take this beforehand, And when you take this beforehand, you can do something like one day of you can do something like one day of you can do something like one day of accelerated TMS. And sometimes the accelerated TMS. And sometimes the accelerated TMS. And sometimes the results are better than what you results are better than what you results are better than what you previously, let's just call it seven previously, let's just call it seven previously, let's just call it seven years ago, would get from 3, four years ago, would get from 3, four years ago, would get from 3, four months. And I did one day and Dan months. And I did one day and Dan months. And I did one day and Dan this time around boom it was just like a this time around boom it was just like a this time around boom it was just like a switch basically the next day and it has switch basically the next day and it has switch basically the next day and it has now been 2 or 3 months and I don't want now been 2 or 3 months and I don't want now been 2 or 3 months and I don't want to set expectations that it'll be this to set expectations that it'll be this to set expectations that it'll be this way for everyone. It seems to be way for everyone. It seems to be way for everyone. It seems to be particularly effective particularly effective particularly effective yes for depression but it seems to be yes for depression but it seems to be yes for depression but it seems to be particularly effective in a very small particularly effective in a very small particularly effective in a very small sample size at this point for anxiety sample size at this point for anxiety sample size at this point for anxiety and OCD. uh and and OCD. uh and and OCD. uh and man it's just it's just a different man it's just it's just a different man it's just it's just a different life. It is a different life. So all of life. It is a different life. So all of life. It is a different life. So all of those things in combination plus the those things in combination plus the those things in combination plus the basics right the kind of basic basics right the kind of basic basics right the kind of basic macronutrients of health exercise macronutrients of health exercise macronutrients of health exercise etc etc etc diet and so on um are just etc etc etc diet and so on um are just etc etc etc diet and so on um are just are just doing their job together. The are just doing their job together. The are just doing their job together. The last one I'll throw in and then I'll last one I'll throw in and then I'll last one I'll throw in and then I'll shut up because I realize this has shut up because I realize this has shut up because I realize this has turned into a TED talk is um turned into a TED talk is um turned into a TED talk is um intermittent ketosis. So, the ketogenic intermittent ketosis. So, the ketogenic intermittent ketosis. So, the ketogenic diet and ketosis overall, which can be diet and ketosis overall, which can be diet and ketosis overall, which can be achieved a few different ways, which I'm achieved a few different ways, which I'm achieved a few different ways, which I'm in right now, is absolutely phenomenal in right now, is absolutely phenomenal in right now, is absolutely phenomenal for addressing a lot of psychiatric for addressing a lot of psychiatric for addressing a lot of psychiatric pains, psycho emotional pains that are pains, psycho emotional pains that are pains, psycho emotional pains that are failing to be treated by medication. And failing to be treated by medication. And failing to be treated by medication. And there's something called metabolic there's something called metabolic there's something called metabolic psychiatry. Chris Palmer out of Harvard psychiatry. Chris Palmer out of Harvard psychiatry. Chris Palmer out of Harvard and other have have looked at this very and other have have looked at this very and other have have looked at this very closely. All right. [laughter] closely. All right. [laughter] closely. All right. [laughter] Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> I just want to assure you TED talks are >> I just want to assure you TED talks are >> I just want to assure you TED talks are welcome here. Yeah, you're a podcaster, welcome here. Yeah, you're a podcaster, welcome here. Yeah, you're a podcaster, you know. Uh um long answers are fine. you know. Uh um long answers are fine. you know. Uh um long answers are fine. >> Um so please delete that sheep >> Um so please delete that sheep >> Um so please delete that sheep sheepishness from from your mind. Um sheepishness from from your mind. Um sheepishness from from your mind. Um [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> all right, we'll do >> all right, we'll do >> all right, we'll do >> I have a million follow-up questions. >> I have a million follow-up questions. >> I have a million follow-up questions. Let me just say just high level, Let me just say just high level, Let me just say just high level, a different life. Those three words a different life. Those three words a different life. Those three words really really really >> I just makes me very happy to hear that. >> I just makes me very happy to hear that. >> I just makes me very happy to hear that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> What's going on? >> What's going on? >> What's going on? >> Thank you. Thank you, Dan. Yeah, it's it >> Thank you. Thank you, Dan. Yeah, it's it >> Thank you. Thank you, Dan. Yeah, it's it is impossible, I think, to overstate the is impossible, I think, to overstate the is impossible, I think, to overstate the difference between an 8 out of 10 of difference between an 8 out of 10 of difference between an 8 out of 10 of nonstop ruminative nonstop ruminative nonstop ruminative monkey mind with a fixation on things monkey mind with a fixation on things monkey mind with a fixation on things that are anxiety producing to getting to that are anxiety producing to getting to that are anxiety producing to getting to like a one or two out of 10. Like those like a one or two out of 10. Like those like a one or two out of 10. Like those are two different lived experiences. are two different lived experiences. are two different lived experiences. They are not They are not They are not >> they they are so far apart from each >> they they are so far apart from each >> they they are so far apart from each other. It's it's really remarkable. other. It's it's really remarkable. other. It's it's really remarkable. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> So you mentioned transranial is it >> So you mentioned transranial is it >> So you mentioned transranial is it magnetic stimulation? TMS magnetic stimulation? TMS magnetic stimulation? TMS >> magnetic stimulation. Mhm. >> magnetic stimulation. Mhm. >> magnetic stimulation. Mhm. >> I will drop a link in the show notes for >> I will drop a link in the show notes for >> I will drop a link in the show notes for people who want to listen to Tim's uh people who want to listen to Tim's uh people who want to listen to Tim's uh conversation with Nolan Williams. Um but conversation with Nolan Williams. Um but conversation with Nolan Williams. Um but I with the caveat of course that you're I with the caveat of course that you're I with the caveat of course that you're you're not the the the researcher doing you're not the the the researcher doing you're not the the the researcher doing you know the the world's leading expert. you know the the world's leading expert. you know the the world's leading expert. You're you're um more of the guinea pig You're you're um more of the guinea pig You're you're um more of the guinea pig and the the patient. But can you tell us and the the patient. But can you tell us and the the patient. But can you tell us like a little bit more about how is is like a little bit more about how is is like a little bit more about how is is TMS widely available? Is it a thing that TMS widely available? Is it a thing that TMS widely available? Is it a thing that average people can access? And also like average people can access? And also like average people can access? And also like how strong is the evidence? how strong is the evidence? how strong is the evidence? >> All right. I'm happy to tackle that with >> All right. I'm happy to tackle that with >> All right. I'm happy to tackle that with as you said the disclaimer. I am not a as you said the disclaimer. I am not a as you said the disclaimer. I am not a doctor nor do I play one on the internet doctor nor do I play one on the internet doctor nor do I play one on the internet but I do spend a lot of time in these but I do spend a lot of time in these but I do spend a lot of time in these waters. So what I'll say is that the waters. So what I'll say is that the waters. So what I'll say is that the evidence for TMS broadly there decades evidence for TMS broadly there decades evidence for TMS broadly there decades of evidence with different applications of evidence with different applications of evidence with different applications of TMS of TMS of TMS and then if as we look at accelerated and then if as we look at accelerated and then if as we look at accelerated TMS there's actually I would say very TMS there's actually I would say very TMS there's actually I would say very compelling body of evidence compelling body of evidence compelling body of evidence once we get into the the vanguard which once we get into the the vanguard which once we get into the the vanguard which is always risky right you don't is always risky right you don't is always risky right you don't necessarily want to be one of the first necessarily want to be one of the first necessarily want to be one of the first hundred monkeys shot into space but in hundred monkeys shot into space but in hundred monkeys shot into space but in this particular case the pain was great this particular case the pain was great this particular case the pain was great enough that I decided to opt in. Then enough that I decided to opt in. Then enough that I decided to opt in. Then you're getting into the bleeding edge you're getting into the bleeding edge you're getting into the bleeding edge which is this descloer which is this descloer which is this descloer DCS plus TMS. That's very much at the DCS plus TMS. That's very much at the DCS plus TMS. That's very much at the outer reaches. I would say at least outer reaches. I would say at least outer reaches. I would say at least based on the clinic that I went to based on the clinic that I went to based on the clinic that I went to and maybe overall for all I know I am and maybe overall for all I know I am and maybe overall for all I know I am one of perhaps 60 patients with one of perhaps 60 patients with one of perhaps 60 patients with OCD/ generalized anxiety disorder who OCD/ generalized anxiety disorder who OCD/ generalized anxiety disorder who have been treated that way. So it's a have been treated that way. So it's a have been treated that way. So it's a very small number. In terms of very small number. In terms of very small number. In terms of accessibility, there are let me start accessibility, there are let me start accessibility, there are let me start from the top in in no particular order, from the top in in no particular order, from the top in in no particular order, but I'll just say that but I'll just say that but I'll just say that there's a hardware stack. So, the the there's a hardware stack. So, the the there's a hardware stack. So, the the two companies that I'm most familiar two companies that I'm most familiar two companies that I'm most familiar with which make hardware that I've used with which make hardware that I've used with which make hardware that I've used myself are Brainsway, that's one myself are Brainsway, that's one myself are Brainsway, that's one company, and then another one is Mag company, and then another one is Mag company, and then another one is Mag Venture. and the the hardware are Venture. and the the hardware are Venture. and the the hardware are different, but I know people who have different, but I know people who have different, but I know people who have responded very well to both of them, responded very well to both of them, responded very well to both of them, right? So, you can right? So, you can right? So, you can >> you can vet certain providers, I would >> you can vet certain providers, I would >> you can vet certain providers, I would say. Not saying this is the only way. say. Not saying this is the only way. say. Not saying this is the only way. I'm not saying it's fair. Perhaps there I'm not saying it's fair. Perhaps there I'm not saying it's fair. Perhaps there are other technologies out there, but are other technologies out there, but are other technologies out there, but there there, as you would expect, is a there there, as you would expect, is a there there, as you would expect, is a is a fair there's a fair bololis of fly is a fair there's a fair bololis of fly is a fair there's a fair bololis of fly by night operations that are promising by night operations that are promising by night operations that are promising miracles and offering quote unquote TMS miracles and offering quote unquote TMS miracles and offering quote unquote TMS that is actually not following any that is actually not following any that is actually not following any protocol whatsoever. And u I I think protocol whatsoever. And u I I think protocol whatsoever. And u I I think that's very unethical. But Brainsway, that's very unethical. But Brainsway, that's very unethical. But Brainsway, Mag Venture are two types of hardware. Mag Venture are two types of hardware. Mag Venture are two types of hardware. And then you really want to look it is And then you really want to look it is And then you really want to look it is it is available is the short answer. it is available is the short answer. it is available is the short answer. Accelerated TMS is available in a lot of Accelerated TMS is available in a lot of Accelerated TMS is available in a lot of major cities. It is not as widely major cities. It is not as widely major cities. It is not as widely distributed as I would like uh because distributed as I would like uh because distributed as I would like uh because it is generally not covered by it is generally not covered by it is generally not covered by insurance. Accelerated TMS is generally insurance. Accelerated TMS is generally insurance. Accelerated TMS is generally not covered. TMS, not covered. TMS, not covered. TMS, let's just call it conventional TMS is let's just call it conventional TMS is let's just call it conventional TMS is often covered by insurance depending on often covered by insurance depending on often covered by insurance depending on the indication. But accelerated TMS the indication. But accelerated TMS the indication. But accelerated TMS where you're basically taking a week off where you're basically taking a week off where you're basically taking a week off work and just getting your brains up 10 work and just getting your brains up 10 work and just getting your brains up 10 hours a day for five days straight hours a day for five days straight hours a day for five days straight typically not covered. And uh part of typically not covered. And uh part of typically not covered. And uh part of why I'm so excited about the why I'm so excited about the why I'm so excited about the implications implications implications if the data scale and are robust and if the data scale and are robust and if the data scale and are robust and show show show comparable or superior results with the comparable or superior results with the comparable or superior results with the with this pre-administration of this with this pre-administration of this with this pre-administration of this drug is that the ability of anyone drug is that the ability of anyone drug is that the ability of anyone whether they are average whether they are average whether they are average uh less kind of financially stable or uh less kind of financially stable or uh less kind of financially stable or very well healed of taking one day off very well healed of taking one day off very well healed of taking one day off of work is not only logistically so much of work is not only logistically so much of work is not only logistically so much easier if they're able to pre-administer easier if they're able to pre-administer easier if they're able to pre-administer with this DCS, but it should be much with this DCS, but it should be much with this DCS, but it should be much less expensive. Right? So, I'm hoping less expensive. Right? So, I'm hoping less expensive. Right? So, I'm hoping even if people have to pay out of pocket even if people have to pay out of pocket even if people have to pay out of pocket that these breakthroughs, hopefully that these breakthroughs, hopefully that these breakthroughs, hopefully they're breakthroughs with uh they're breakthroughs with uh they're breakthroughs with uh combination therapies of TMS, combination therapies of TMS, combination therapies of TMS, accelerated TMS and descarerian will accelerated TMS and descarerian will accelerated TMS and descarerian will will really make it much more widely will really make it much more widely will really make it much more widely available. That's my hope. It's going to available. That's my hope. It's going to available. That's my hope. It's going to take a little while, but it it it is take a little while, but it it it is take a little while, but it it it is available. I know there are clinics in, available. I know there are clinics in, available. I know there are clinics in, for instance, New York. I know there are for instance, New York. I know there are for instance, New York. I know there are clinics in California and Chicago that clinics in California and Chicago that clinics in California and Chicago that are credible. Um, they may exist in are credible. Um, they may exist in are credible. Um, they may exist in other places as well. other places as well. other places as well. >> The other thing you mentioned in terms >> The other thing you mentioned in terms >> The other thing you mentioned in terms of, you know, having a different life is of, you know, having a different life is of, you know, having a different life is is your focus on relationships. I I saw is your focus on relationships. I I saw is your focus on relationships. I I saw myself in that answer. You know, that myself in that answer. You know, that myself in that answer. You know, that was a thing I there was a kind of was a thing I there was a kind of was a thing I there was a kind of desertification or desertification, I desertification or desertification, I desertification or desertification, I don't know how you pronounce that, of my don't know how you pronounce that, of my don't know how you pronounce that, of my social life for many years because I was social life for many years because I was social life for many years because I was such a careerist and such a workaholic such a careerist and such a workaholic such a careerist and such a workaholic and then in recent years have really and then in recent years have really and then in recent years have really turned that around and I see turned that around and I see turned that around and I see >> such a massive difference in my mental >> such a massive difference in my mental >> such a massive difference in my mental health. I'm curious like you mentioned health. I'm curious like you mentioned health. I'm curious like you mentioned that in recent years you've at the top that in recent years you've at the top that in recent years you've at the top of every year you kind of make a plan to of every year you kind of make a plan to of every year you kind of make a plan to see the people who to use the cliche see the people who to use the cliche see the people who to use the cliche fill your cup. Um, fill your cup. Um, fill your cup. Um, >> had you gone through a period like I >> had you gone through a period like I >> had you gone through a period like I like I did where there was a a certain like I did where there was a a certain like I did where there was a a certain amount of isolation or um in in amount of isolation or um in in amount of isolation or um in in attention to this to this lever. attention to this to this lever. attention to this to this lever. >> Oh, for sure. And I think there were a >> Oh, for sure. And I think there were a >> Oh, for sure. And I think there were a few different reasons for that. Uh, I few different reasons for that. Uh, I few different reasons for that. Uh, I don't know if hindsight's 2020, but I don't know if hindsight's 2020, but I don't know if hindsight's 2020, but I think it's easier to see from my vantage think it's easier to see from my vantage think it's easier to see from my vantage point now that and it's a balancing act point now that and it's a balancing act point now that and it's a balancing act because there's there's compulsive because there's there's compulsive because there's there's compulsive socializing because you are socializing because you are socializing because you are incredibly uncomfortable or afraid of incredibly uncomfortable or afraid of incredibly uncomfortable or afraid of being alone or with yourself, being alone or with yourself, being alone or with yourself, >> right? There's compulsive socializing to >> right? There's compulsive socializing to >> right? There's compulsive socializing to distract yourself, like protect yourself distract yourself, like protect yourself distract yourself, like protect yourself from yourself, which is problematic. from yourself, which is problematic. from yourself, which is problematic. [snorts] And then there's compulsive [snorts] And then there's compulsive [snorts] And then there's compulsive isolation. And I would say I probably isolation. And I would say I probably isolation. And I would say I probably leaned far more towards the compulsive leaned far more towards the compulsive leaned far more towards the compulsive isolation. And there were two reasons isolation. And there were two reasons isolation. And there were two reasons for that. One was workcoholism back in for that. One was workcoholism back in for that. One was workcoholism back in the day, for sure. and I just the day, for sure. and I just the day, for sure. and I just felt like I was more effective, able to felt like I was more effective, able to felt like I was more effective, able to produce, more able to focus on business, produce, more able to focus on business, produce, more able to focus on business, finances, whatever it might be in finances, whatever it might be in finances, whatever it might be in isolation. And there might be some truth isolation. And there might be some truth isolation. And there might be some truth to that. to that. to that. Then I would say there was also this Then I would say there was also this Then I would say there was also this belief belief belief that I think at the time was really that I think at the time was really that I think at the time was really implicit. I don't think I explicitly implicit. I don't think I explicitly implicit. I don't think I explicitly grasped it, which was, and I've I've grasped it, which was, and I've I've grasped it, which was, and I've I've written this incredibly long essay that written this incredibly long essay that written this incredibly long essay that maybe I'll publish at some point, but maybe I'll publish at some point, but maybe I'll publish at some point, but talking about some of the dangers of talking about some of the dangers of talking about some of the dangers of self-help, and one of them is the self-help, and one of them is the self-help, and one of them is the following, which ties into what we're following, which ties into what we're following, which ties into what we're talking about and leaning towards talking about and leaning towards talking about and leaning towards isolation. isolation. isolation. this implicit belief or explicit that this implicit belief or explicit that this implicit belief or explicit that you need to work on yourself and fix you need to work on yourself and fix you need to work on yourself and fix yourself and quote unquote do the work yourself and quote unquote do the work yourself and quote unquote do the work and then you'll be ready to interact and then you'll be ready to interact and then you'll be ready to interact with other people and have a significant with other people and have a significant with other people and have a significant relationship and engage with your family relationship and engage with your family relationship and engage with your family if that is an option or you want it to if that is an option or you want it to if that is an option or you want it to be an option etc etc. So, in effect, the be an option etc etc. So, in effect, the be an option etc etc. So, in effect, the the analogy that I've drawn for some the analogy that I've drawn for some the analogy that I've drawn for some friends is friends is friends is you want to play soccer, but first you want to play soccer, but first you want to play soccer, but first you're going to read all the textbooks you're going to read all the textbooks you're going to read all the textbooks and get a master's degree and PhD in and get a master's degree and PhD in and get a master's degree and PhD in soccer. And then you're going to soccer. And then you're going to soccer. And then you're going to practice dribbling and penalty shots and practice dribbling and penalty shots and practice dribbling and penalty shots and so on by yourself. so on by yourself. so on by yourself. And and you want to become as perfect a And and you want to become as perfect a And and you want to become as perfect a player as possible by yourself before player as possible by yourself before player as possible by yourself before you ever actually get on the field and you ever actually get on the field and you ever actually get on the field and play the game of soccer. and you can play the game of soccer. and you can play the game of soccer. and you can start to believe that you're playing start to believe that you're playing start to believe that you're playing soccer by yourself. There's always more soccer by yourself. There's always more soccer by yourself. There's always more room for improvement. You're never going room for improvement. You're never going room for improvement. You're never going to be perfect. And if you get caught in to be perfect. And if you get caught in to be perfect. And if you get caught in that trap, which is the partial trap of that trap, which is the partial trap of that trap, which is the partial trap of self-help, you're always polishing this self-help, you're always polishing this self-help, you're always polishing this self. self. self. And it can become this real recursive And it can become this real recursive And it can become this real recursive dangerous trap, this fixation on the dangerous trap, this fixation on the dangerous trap, this fixation on the self. self. self. And you never actually [ __ ] play And you never actually [ __ ] play And you never actually [ __ ] play soccer. soccer. soccer. >> [laughter] >> And at a point you start to believe that >> And at a point you start to believe that you are but you're not. You're you are but you're not. You're you are but you're not. You're simulating by yourself life but not simulating by yourself life but not simulating by yourself life but not actually engaging with life. And I have actually engaging with life. And I have actually engaging with life. And I have who knows maybe this is a function of who knows maybe this is a function of who knows maybe this is a function of getting older. I don't think so getting older. I don't think so getting older. I don't think so necessarily but for so many decades I necessarily but for so many decades I necessarily but for so many decades I was interested in the cutting edge the was interested in the cutting edge the was interested in the cutting edge the cutting edge of everything. and I still cutting edge of everything. and I still cutting edge of everything. and I still am, but I've become interested equally am, but I've become interested equally am, but I've become interested equally in things that have lasted millennia in things that have lasted millennia in things that have lasted millennia [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] or more than millennia. And or more than millennia. And or more than millennia. And I recommend if you're trying to learn I recommend if you're trying to learn I recommend if you're trying to learn how the latest LLMs differ from one how the latest LLMs differ from one how the latest LLMs differ from one another, etc., You also spend some time another, etc., You also spend some time another, etc., You also spend some time looking at evolutionary biology and looking at evolutionary biology and looking at evolutionary biology and studying the things that we have evolved studying the things that we have evolved studying the things that we have evolved to optimize for to experience and man to optimize for to experience and man to optimize for to experience and man it's just like I think it was regonomics it's just like I think it was regonomics it's just like I think it was regonomics right it it's the economy stupid it's right it it's the economy stupid it's right it it's the economy stupid it's the relationship stupid right if you the relationship stupid right if you the relationship stupid right if you don't have like physical contact with don't have like physical contact with don't have like physical contact with people if you don't have these in real people if you don't have these in real people if you don't have these in real life physical experiences if you model life physical experiences if you model life physical experiences if you model that in animals they become a complete that in animals they become a complete that in animals they become a complete disaster disaster disaster Right? They exhibit the same types of Right? They exhibit the same types of Right? They exhibit the same types of behaviors that we now see spiking in behaviors that we now see spiking in behaviors that we now see spiking in humans. Anxiety, depression, lethargy, humans. Anxiety, depression, lethargy, humans. Anxiety, depression, lethargy, sitting in a cage, not doing anything. sitting in a cage, not doing anything. sitting in a cage, not doing anything. Like, we need this type of contact. Um, Like, we need this type of contact. Um, Like, we need this type of contact. Um, so I I'd say that I've sort of offset so I I'd say that I've sort of offset so I I'd say that I've sort of offset the bleeding edge with the very very the bleeding edge with the very very the bleeding edge with the very very super dull edge of things that have super dull edge of things that have super dull edge of things that have lasted a long time. lasted a long time. lasted a long time. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. Um, you you you mentioned and this may Um, you you you mentioned and this may Um, you you you mentioned and this may what the question I'm about to ask might what the question I'm about to ask might what the question I'm about to ask might bring us back to your unpublished essay bring us back to your unpublished essay bring us back to your unpublished essay about the dangers of self-help. Um, but about the dangers of self-help. Um, but about the dangers of self-help. Um, but you you mentioned the word optimizing you you mentioned the word optimizing you you mentioned the word optimizing and in some way in some ways I kind of and in some way in some ways I kind of and in some way in some ways I kind of think of you as like the protooptimizer. think of you as like the protooptimizer. think of you as like the protooptimizer. Um, you know, 4hour work week and um, Um, you know, 4hour work week and um, Um, you know, 4hour work week and um, and I'm just curious where you are on and I'm just curious where you are on and I'm just curious where you are on self-optimization self-optimization self-optimization now. now. now. Yep. I would say that I still Yep. I would say that I still Yep. I would say that I still focus on certain areas to optimize. I focus on certain areas to optimize. I focus on certain areas to optimize. I still pull certain le levers. And still pull certain le levers. And still pull certain le levers. And what I would say I have become what I would say I have become what I would say I have become much better at and it takes practice. much better at and it takes practice. much better at and it takes practice. It's gonna sound so rudimentary is It's gonna sound so rudimentary is It's gonna sound so rudimentary is asking simply what are you optimizing asking simply what are you optimizing asking simply what are you optimizing for before you optimize? for before you optimize? for before you optimize? What why are you optimizing? What why are you optimizing? What why are you optimizing? And it's easy I would say particularly And it's easy I would say particularly And it's easy I would say particularly if you are being shaped by social media if you are being shaped by social media if you are being shaped by social media which seems to basically offer you the which seems to basically offer you the which seems to basically offer you the seven dead layer cardinal sins on a seven dead layer cardinal sins on a seven dead layer cardinal sins on a silver platter. you get to take your silver platter. you get to take your silver platter. you get to take your pick your poison. pick your poison. pick your poison. If you're being shaped by that, then you If you're being shaped by that, then you If you're being shaped by that, then you can end up optimizing without a can end up optimizing without a can end up optimizing without a direction necessarily or a question. You direction necessarily or a question. You direction necessarily or a question. You haven't interrogated the direction. And haven't interrogated the direction. And haven't interrogated the direction. And that could be because you're following that could be because you're following that could be because you're following someone online who's a multi-billion someone online who's a multi-billion someone online who's a multi-billion dollar real estate developer/serial dollar real estate developer/serial dollar real estate developer/serial entrepreneur/fill-in-theblank. entrepreneur/fill-in-theblank. entrepreneur/fill-in-theblank. And the chase for money is on, And the chase for money is on, And the chase for money is on, but that never really gets interrogated. but that never really gets interrogated. but that never really gets interrogated. I think the 4-hour work week does a good I think the 4-hour work week does a good I think the 4-hour work week does a good job of of breaking down kind of work for job of of breaking down kind of work for job of of breaking down kind of work for work's sake and money for money's sake. work's sake and money for money's sake. work's sake and money for money's sake. So for me, I have three relatives right So for me, I have three relatives right So for me, I have three relatives right now with rapidly progressing Alzheimer's now with rapidly progressing Alzheimer's now with rapidly progressing Alzheimer's disease, disease, disease, including those who do not have the including those who do not have the including those who do not have the genotype. genotype. genotype. If we look at say APOE status, right? If we look at say APOE status, right? If we look at say APOE status, right? They're APOE 33 whereas I'm ApoE34. So They're APOE 33 whereas I'm ApoE34. So They're APOE 33 whereas I'm ApoE34. So that's scary. There are other factors to that's scary. There are other factors to that's scary. There are other factors to consider for Alzheimer's. consider for Alzheimer's. consider for Alzheimer's. I am doing things to I am doing things to I am doing things to try not to die from something that is try not to die from something that is try not to die from something that is hopefully preventable on the uh from the hopefully preventable on the uh from the hopefully preventable on the uh from the perspective of cardiac health, perspective of cardiac health, perspective of cardiac health, cardiovascular health and then also cardiovascular health and then also cardiovascular health and then also trying to mitigate my risk of trying to mitigate my risk of trying to mitigate my risk of neurodeenerative neurodeenerative neurodeenerative uh disease and uh disease and uh disease and that's why I'm in ketosis right now for that's why I'm in ketosis right now for that's why I'm in ketosis right now for instance and you know jury's out on some instance and you know jury's out on some instance and you know jury's out on some of this but very plausibly there are of this but very plausibly there are of this but very plausibly there are mechanisms by mechanisms by mechanisms by going into ketosis on a fairly regular going into ketosis on a fairly regular going into ketosis on a fairly regular basis for a few weeks at a time. Let's basis for a few weeks at a time. Let's basis for a few weeks at a time. Let's just say in my case, two or three times just say in my case, two or three times just say in my case, two or three times a year a year a year may have neuroprotective effects, also may have neuroprotective effects, also may have neuroprotective effects, also anti-cancer effects. And people can anti-cancer effects. And people can anti-cancer effects. And people can listen to my interviews with Dominic listen to my interviews with Dominic listen to my interviews with Dominic Dagustinino, who's a researcher out of Dagustinino, who's a researcher out of Dagustinino, who's a researcher out of Florida, or other people for the the Florida, or other people for the the Florida, or other people for the the science behind this. And it's it's it's science behind this. And it's it's it's science behind this. And it's it's it's a it's also an intervention. And this a it's also an intervention. And this a it's also an intervention. And this comes back to your question about comes back to your question about comes back to your question about optimizing that is very very wellstudied optimizing that is very very wellstudied optimizing that is very very wellstudied in the sense that in the sense that in the sense that I I have very high confidence that the I I have very high confidence that the I I have very high confidence that the downside risk is low and very downside risk is low and very downside risk is low and very manageable. Whereas if you're just manageable. Whereas if you're just manageable. Whereas if you're just mainlining GLP1 agonists, mainlining GLP1 agonists, mainlining GLP1 agonists, amazing results that we've seen in the amazing results that we've seen in the amazing results that we've seen in the literature so far, but have we had literature so far, but have we had literature so far, but have we had anyone on these for 10 20 years? No. Uh anyone on these for 10 20 years? No. Uh anyone on these for 10 20 years? No. Uh at least not 20 years. Maybe some of the at least not 20 years. Maybe some of the at least not 20 years. Maybe some of the one of the first monkeys shot into space one of the first monkeys shot into space one of the first monkeys shot into space like me with the accelerated TMS and the like me with the accelerated TMS and the like me with the accelerated TMS and the DCS has been on for that period of time. DCS has been on for that period of time. DCS has been on for that period of time. And that doesn't mean don't use GLP1 And that doesn't mean don't use GLP1 And that doesn't mean don't use GLP1 agonist, but understand that there are a agonist, but understand that there are a agonist, but understand that there are a lot of unknown unknowns. With the lot of unknown unknowns. With the lot of unknown unknowns. With the ketogenic diet, it's like look kids, the ketogenic diet, it's like look kids, the ketogenic diet, it's like look kids, the ketogenic diet and its modern ketogenic diet and its modern ketogenic diet and its modern incarnation using heavy cream or other incarnation using heavy cream or other incarnation using heavy cream or other types of fats was designed for epileptic types of fats was designed for epileptic types of fats was designed for epileptic children, right? And this goes back children, right? And this goes back children, right? And this goes back probably a hundred years at this point probably a hundred years at this point probably a hundred years at this point if not 100 years close to it. if not 100 years close to it. if not 100 years close to it. >> And uh humans have the metabolic >> And uh humans have the metabolic >> And uh humans have the metabolic machinery to go into ketosis and have machinery to go into ketosis and have machinery to go into ketosis and have had that machinery for millennia upon a had that machinery for millennia upon a had that machinery for millennia upon a millennia upon millennia. So that would millennia upon millennia. So that would millennia upon millennia. So that would be an example of something that be an example of something that be an example of something that passes it passes the test for me of passes it passes the test for me of passes it passes the test for me of this seemingly credible upside potential this seemingly credible upside potential this seemingly credible upside potential even if we don't understand all the even if we don't understand all the even if we don't understand all the mechanisms limited downside potential mechanisms limited downside potential mechanisms limited downside potential uh that I can offset with certain uh that I can offset with certain uh that I can offset with certain prescription drugs let's just say prescription drugs let's just say prescription drugs let's just say because I'm a cholesterol hyperabsorber because I'm a cholesterol hyperabsorber because I'm a cholesterol hyperabsorber and okay great we're going to do that and okay great we're going to do that and okay great we're going to do that intermittent fasting would be another intermittent fasting would be another intermittent fasting would be another one so e during ketosis is or outside of one so e during ketosis is or outside of one so e during ketosis is or outside of ketosis. The one thing that has most ketosis. The one thing that has most ketosis. The one thing that has most dramatically changed dramatically changed dramatically changed my blood tests with respect to my blood tests with respect to my blood tests with respect to specifically insulin sensitivity specifically insulin sensitivity specifically insulin sensitivity and avoiding pre-diabetes which runs and avoiding pre-diabetes which runs and avoiding pre-diabetes which runs rampant in my family. intermittent rampant in my family. intermittent rampant in my family. intermittent fasting. In my case, that means I'm fasting. In my case, that means I'm fasting. In my case, that means I'm eating within an 8 hour window each day, eating within an 8 hour window each day, eating within an 8 hour window each day, typically like might be even a little typically like might be even a little typically like might be even a little shorter, like 2:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. And shorter, like 2:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. And shorter, like 2:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. And that's it. I just don't eat until 2:00 that's it. I just don't eat until 2:00 that's it. I just don't eat until 2:00 p.m. or 3:00 p.m. [snorts] p.m. or 3:00 p.m. [snorts] p.m. or 3:00 p.m. [snorts] And for some folks, it's probably argue And for some folks, it's probably argue And for some folks, it's probably argue arguably better for you if you do like a arguably better for you if you do like a arguably better for you if you do like a 12:00 noon to 8:00 p.m. kind of eating 12:00 noon to 8:00 p.m. kind of eating 12:00 noon to 8:00 p.m. kind of eating window. It's also called timerestricted window. It's also called timerestricted window. It's also called timerestricted feeding. There's a lot of good science feeding. There's a lot of good science feeding. There's a lot of good science for this, not just in animal models, but for this, not just in animal models, but for this, not just in animal models, but in humans. And the results I've seen in humans. And the results I've seen in humans. And the results I've seen from that are just absolutely from that are just absolutely from that are just absolutely incredible. And it's so simple because incredible. And it's so simple because incredible. And it's so simple because you don't actually need to change what you don't actually need to change what you don't actually need to change what you eat. You're just changing when you you eat. You're just changing when you you eat. You're just changing when you eat. Um, so those would be two that eat. Um, so those would be two that eat. Um, so those would be two that people might think of as optimizing. And people might think of as optimizing. And people might think of as optimizing. And then I'm taking a handful of then I'm taking a handful of then I'm taking a handful of prescription drugs to offset the prescription drugs to offset the prescription drugs to offset the cardiovascular risk because it doesn't cardiovascular risk because it doesn't cardiovascular risk because it doesn't matter if I am eating an all-fat diet, matter if I am eating an all-fat diet, matter if I am eating an all-fat diet, an all-p protein diet, a vegan diet, a an all-p protein diet, a vegan diet, a an all-p protein diet, a vegan diet, a fill-in-theblank diet. [snorts] fill-in-theblank diet. [snorts] fill-in-theblank diet. [snorts] There are certain biomarkers that are There are certain biomarkers that are There are certain biomarkers that are just trash. They're so bad. [laughter] just trash. They're so bad. [laughter] just trash. They're so bad. [laughter] And that seems to be just straight from And that seems to be just straight from And that seems to be just straight from the code, straight from DNA. And the code, straight from DNA. And the code, straight from DNA. And [snorts] for that reason, I'm like, "Ah, [snorts] for that reason, I'm like, "Ah, [snorts] for that reason, I'm like, "Ah, I'm no spring chicken anymore. You know I'm no spring chicken anymore. You know I'm no spring chicken anymore. You know what? I think I'll just bite the bullet what? I think I'll just bite the bullet what? I think I'll just bite the bullet and and take some of these." And if it's and and take some of these." And if it's and and take some of these." And if it's helpful for folks, the way I think about helpful for folks, the way I think about helpful for folks, the way I think about that, because I think I I have, and I'm that, because I think I I have, and I'm that, because I think I I have, and I'm partially to blame for this, cuz I did a partially to blame for this, cuz I did a partially to blame for this, cuz I did a lot of really out there stuff in say the lot of really out there stuff in say the lot of really out there stuff in say the 4-hour body, which much of which most of 4-hour body, which much of which most of 4-hour body, which much of which most of which stands up to scrutiny now, 15 which stands up to scrutiny now, 15 which stands up to scrutiny now, 15 years later. But I was pushing the years later. But I was pushing the years later. But I was pushing the envelope with that. envelope with that. envelope with that. When for instance I talk with my doctors When for instance I talk with my doctors When for instance I talk with my doctors now and I'll this is only going to take now and I'll this is only going to take now and I'll this is only going to take another minute or two but it might be another minute or two but it might be another minute or two but it might be helpful to people. The first thing is if helpful to people. The first thing is if helpful to people. The first thing is if you have a blood test and something is you have a blood test and something is you have a blood test and something is out of range out of range out of range my recommendation would be before you my recommendation would be before you my recommendation would be before you get on 12 different drugs to deal with get on 12 different drugs to deal with get on 12 different drugs to deal with it. And if it's an emergency, it's an it. And if it's an emergency, it's an it. And if it's an emergency, it's an emergency. But if it's not an emergency, emergency. But if it's not an emergency, emergency. But if it's not an emergency, right, like your triglycerides are are right, like your triglycerides are are right, like your triglycerides are are high. All right. Well, it's probably not high. All right. Well, it's probably not high. All right. Well, it's probably not going to kill you in the next week. My going to kill you in the next week. My going to kill you in the next week. My recommendation would be talk to your recommendation would be talk to your recommendation would be talk to your doctor, replicate the test, do the test doctor, replicate the test, do the test doctor, replicate the test, do the test again the next week, maybe on a again the next week, maybe on a again the next week, maybe on a different day, and see if you can different day, and see if you can different day, and see if you can replicate the error. Because for replicate the error. Because for replicate the error. Because for instance, if you had a heavy weekend of instance, if you had a heavy weekend of instance, if you had a heavy weekend of drinking or ate a fatty meal the night drinking or ate a fatty meal the night drinking or ate a fatty meal the night before and then you do your blood test 8 before and then you do your blood test 8 before and then you do your blood test 8 a.m. the next morning, fasted, well, a.m. the next morning, fasted, well, a.m. the next morning, fasted, well, you might look like you're on the road you might look like you're on the road you might look like you're on the road to having a heart attack in 2 months, to having a heart attack in 2 months, to having a heart attack in 2 months, but actually it was just behavior and but actually it was just behavior and but actually it was just behavior and diet. So, replicate replicate. And diet. So, replicate replicate. And diet. So, replicate replicate. And uh that would be number one, right? like uh that would be number one, right? like uh that would be number one, right? like don't base the outcome of the like the don't base the outcome of the like the don't base the outcome of the like the basketball match on one photograph. Like basketball match on one photograph. Like basketball match on one photograph. Like try to try to get tested more frequently try to try to get tested more frequently try to try to get tested more frequently and [snorts] pay attention to when and [snorts] pay attention to when and [snorts] pay attention to when you're getting tested. So if you're for you're getting tested. So if you're for you're getting tested. So if you're for instance coming back to the example I instance coming back to the example I instance coming back to the example I gave, if you're if you're taking your gave, if you're if you're taking your gave, if you're if you're taking your test, your blood test on Monday test, your blood test on Monday test, your blood test on Monday mornings, make sure your next test that mornings, make sure your next test that mornings, make sure your next test that you're comparing it to is also on Monday you're comparing it to is also on Monday you're comparing it to is also on Monday morning. If it's Wednesday morning, it morning. If it's Wednesday morning, it morning. If it's Wednesday morning, it might be completely different. By the might be completely different. By the might be completely different. By the way, if it's something like cortisol, way, if it's something like cortisol, way, if it's something like cortisol, testosterone, etc., these things have testosterone, etc., these things have testosterone, etc., these things have dural cycles, they really fluctuate dural cycles, they really fluctuate dural cycles, they really fluctuate throughout the day. So, if you get a throughout the day. So, if you get a throughout the day. So, if you get a test at uh 8:00 a.m. I've seen this with test at uh 8:00 a.m. I've seen this with test at uh 8:00 a.m. I've seen this with friends of mine who male friends who get friends of mine who male friends who get friends of mine who male friends who get a test at like 8:00 a.m. Uh, and I have a test at like 8:00 a.m. Uh, and I have a test at like 8:00 a.m. Uh, and I have to interrogate how they did things for to interrogate how they did things for to interrogate how they did things for them to Sherlock Holmes this, but they them to Sherlock Holmes this, but they them to Sherlock Holmes this, but they do they do a test, they're concerned do they do a test, they're concerned do they do a test, they're concerned about their testosterone levels or the about their testosterone levels or the about their testosterone levels or the free testosterone. They take a test at free testosterone. They take a test at free testosterone. They take a test at 8:00 a.m. looks great. They do another 8:00 a.m. looks great. They do another 8:00 a.m. looks great. They do another test three months later, six months test three months later, six months test three months later, six months later. They do it at 11:00 a.m. and it's later. They do it at 11:00 a.m. and it's later. They do it at 11:00 a.m. and it's 200 points lower. Looks crazy. And it's 200 points lower. Looks crazy. And it's 200 points lower. Looks crazy. And it's not crazy. They don't actually, in this not crazy. They don't actually, in this not crazy. They don't actually, in this case, this guy had no problem. He was case, this guy had no problem. He was case, this guy had no problem. He was about to get on all sorts of hormone about to get on all sorts of hormone about to get on all sorts of hormone replacement therapy and all this stuff replacement therapy and all this stuff replacement therapy and all this stuff that is is pretty powerful. And I said, that is is pretty powerful. And I said, that is is pretty powerful. And I said, "Go back, do it at 8 a.m. again, 2 "Go back, do it at 8 a.m. again, 2 "Go back, do it at 8 a.m. again, 2 weeks. Let's see what happens." Guess weeks. Let's see what happens." Guess weeks. Let's see what happens." Guess what? It was the same as the first test. what? It was the same as the first test. what? It was the same as the first test. So that that's step number one. And then So that that's step number one. And then So that that's step number one. And then when I'm looking at possible when I'm looking at possible when I'm looking at possible interventions for me, again, I'm not a interventions for me, again, I'm not a interventions for me, again, I'm not a doctor. Don't play one on the internet. doctor. Don't play one on the internet. doctor. Don't play one on the internet. But the way I approach it, and people But the way I approach it, and people But the way I approach it, and people get very little guidance on this, right, get very little guidance on this, right, get very little guidance on this, right, is most doctors are overstretched, is most doctors are overstretched, is most doctors are overstretched, right? They get 11 minutes per patient. right? They get 11 minutes per patient. right? They get 11 minutes per patient. The easiest thing for them to do is say, The easiest thing for them to do is say, The easiest thing for them to do is say, "Look, this guy has a problem or this "Look, this guy has a problem or this "Look, this guy has a problem or this gal has a problem. If we throw these gal has a problem. If we throw these gal has a problem. If we throw these three drugs at it, it's probably going three drugs at it, it's probably going three drugs at it, it's probably going to fix it. My job as far as I'm to fix it. My job as far as I'm to fix it. My job as far as I'm concerned, as far as my time allows, is concerned, as far as my time allows, is concerned, as far as my time allows, is to keep this person from dying. Okay, to keep this person from dying. Okay, to keep this person from dying. Okay, start these three drugs. start these three drugs. start these three drugs. But what I have tried to do, and I did But what I have tried to do, and I did But what I have tried to do, and I did this with my own particular this with my own particular this with my own particular uh cardiac situation, uh cardiac situation, uh cardiac situation, and I think Boston Health is the testing and I think Boston Health is the testing and I think Boston Health is the testing that I did to get a more granular that I did to get a more granular that I did to get a more granular understanding of things with a little understanding of things with a little understanding of things with a little higher resolution. higher resolution. higher resolution. But since I am a cholesterol But since I am a cholesterol But since I am a cholesterol hyperabsorber, hyperabsorber, hyperabsorber, that affects that informs the type of that affects that informs the type of that affects that informs the type of drug I might take. Doesn't necessarily drug I might take. Doesn't necessarily drug I might take. Doesn't necessarily have to be something like a statin. And have to be something like a statin. And have to be something like a statin. And there were three or four drugs that I there were three or four drugs that I there were three or four drugs that I was was suggested to take. And I said, was was suggested to take. And I said, was was suggested to take. And I said, what is the longest studied of these what is the longest studied of these what is the longest studied of these with the best side effect profile that with the best side effect profile that with the best side effect profile that is the most innocuous that I can start is the most innocuous that I can start is the most innocuous that I can start with? And we can do another test in two with? And we can do another test in two with? And we can do another test in two months. This is not an emergency. I'm months. This is not an emergency. I'm months. This is not an emergency. I'm not about to have a pulmonary ambolism not about to have a pulmonary ambolism not about to have a pulmonary ambolism or heart attack. Don't have any arteries or heart attack. Don't have any arteries or heart attack. Don't have any arteries blocked. Like what is it? And it was in blocked. Like what is it? And it was in blocked. Like what is it? And it was in my case, not everybody, something called my case, not everybody, something called my case, not everybody, something called a zettobe, otherwise known as zedia. a zettobe, otherwise known as zedia. a zettobe, otherwise known as zedia. Very well studied, very well tolerated. Very well studied, very well tolerated. Very well studied, very well tolerated. I said, "Let me try this in case I am a I said, "Let me try this in case I am a I said, "Let me try this in case I am a hyperresponder because sometimes you can hyperresponder because sometimes you can hyperresponder because sometimes you can be a hyperresponder or a non-responder." be a hyperresponder or a non-responder." be a hyperresponder or a non-responder." But I was like, "Let me just try it But I was like, "Let me just try it But I was like, "Let me just try it out." And statistically very unlikely out." And statistically very unlikely out." And statistically very unlikely that I would be, the doctor said. that I would be, the doctor said. that I would be, the doctor said. Nonetheless, tried it. 2 months later, Nonetheless, tried it. 2 months later, Nonetheless, tried it. 2 months later, retest. Guess what? I'm a retest. Guess what? I'm a retest. Guess what? I'm a hyperresponder. So, [snorts] I was able hyperresponder. So, [snorts] I was able hyperresponder. So, [snorts] I was able to use the minimum effective dose for to use the minimum effective dose for to use the minimum effective dose for medication and ultimately added one more medication and ultimately added one more medication and ultimately added one more thing. But how many decades of possible thing. But how many decades of possible thing. But how many decades of possible side effects did I just spare myself side effects did I just spare myself side effects did I just spare myself >> by doing basically like one and a half >> by doing basically like one and a half >> by doing basically like one and a half drugs instead of starting with four or drugs instead of starting with four or drugs instead of starting with four or five and doing that indefinitely from five and doing that indefinitely from five and doing that indefinitely from that point forward? when you're dealing that point forward? when you're dealing that point forward? when you're dealing with your doctors, to what extent do you with your doctors, to what extent do you with your doctors, to what extent do you consult AI? I have found personally that consult AI? I have found personally that consult AI? I have found personally that talking to a chatbot has been incredibly talking to a chatbot has been incredibly talking to a chatbot has been incredibly helpful. Now, with the caveat that they helpful. Now, with the caveat that they helpful. Now, with the caveat that they hallucinate and they [ __ ] things up all hallucinate and they [ __ ] things up all hallucinate and they [ __ ] things up all the time and so I'm not taking it as the time and so I'm not taking it as the time and so I'm not taking it as gospel, but I am running I'm in because gospel, but I am running I'm in because gospel, but I am running I'm in because your chatbot doesn't get bored of you your chatbot doesn't get bored of you your chatbot doesn't get bored of you and doesn't have a um and doesn't have a um and doesn't have a um an 11 minute window to talk to you. So an 11 minute window to talk to you. So an 11 minute window to talk to you. So you you can really spend a lot of time you you can really spend a lot of time you you can really spend a lot of time and then what I found is that I can then and then what I found is that I can then and then what I found is that I can then run what I've learned by my doctors. Um run what I've learned by my doctors. Um run what I've learned by my doctors. Um is is that an experience you've had? is is that an experience you've had? is is that an experience you've had? >> Oh, for sure. And I do use AI and these >> Oh, for sure. And I do use AI and these >> Oh, for sure. And I do use AI and these LLM a lot. Uh, what I would say is that LLM a lot. Uh, what I would say is that LLM a lot. Uh, what I would say is that if you're going to do something like if you're going to do something like if you're going to do something like that, my recommendation would be, and that, my recommendation would be, and that, my recommendation would be, and I'll give a shameless plug just because I'll give a shameless plug just because I'll give a shameless plug just because I'm involved with this company. I think I'm involved with this company. I think I'm involved with this company. I think they're doing great things, but you they're doing great things, but you they're doing great things, but you could use something like a chat GPT, but could use something like a chat GPT, but could use something like a chat GPT, but there's some tools that are designed for there's some tools that are designed for there's some tools that are designed for learning. Like there's there's one learning. Like there's there's one learning. Like there's there's one called Obo, OBE.com. called Obo, OBE.com. called Obo, OBE.com. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> Get some basic literacy, just the ABCs >> Get some basic literacy, just the ABCs >> Get some basic literacy, just the ABCs of basic medical terminology of basic medical terminology of basic medical terminology that would be helpful for understanding that would be helpful for understanding that would be helpful for understanding things like blood tests. Just it's like things like blood tests. Just it's like things like blood tests. Just it's like a hundred words, maybe 200 words, a hundred words, maybe 200 words, a hundred words, maybe 200 words, perhaps at the very very tippity top. If perhaps at the very very tippity top. If perhaps at the very very tippity top. If you want to be an overachiever, you want to be an overachiever, you want to be an overachiever, [clears throat] develop an understanding [clears throat] develop an understanding [clears throat] develop an understanding of the basic vocabulary of the basic vocabulary of the basic vocabulary so that you can also discuss these so that you can also discuss these so that you can also discuss these things in shortorthhand with your things in shortorthhand with your things in shortorthhand with your doctors. Right? All right. So once you doctors. Right? All right. So once you doctors. Right? All right. So once you develop basic medical literacy, you develop basic medical literacy, you develop basic medical literacy, you could also use that to learn how to read could also use that to learn how to read could also use that to learn how to read studies, right? Learn how to read a studies, right? Learn how to read a studies, right? Learn how to read a scientific abstract in a study. Uh that scientific abstract in a study. Uh that scientific abstract in a study. Uh that would be one of the best investments you would be one of the best investments you would be one of the best investments you could ever make with your time. could ever make with your time. could ever make with your time. spend an afternoon doing that or two spend an afternoon doing that or two spend an afternoon doing that or two afternoons. Holy [ __ ] the ROI on that afternoons. Holy [ __ ] the ROI on that afternoons. Holy [ __ ] the ROI on that is unbelievable. Like the number of is unbelievable. Like the number of is unbelievable. Like the number of medical problems averted, the number of medical problems averted, the number of medical problems averted, the number of medical procedures averted, the number medical procedures averted, the number medical procedures averted, the number of of of nonobvious solutions found that my basic nonobvious solutions found that my basic nonobvious solutions found that my basic literacy has helped to to sort of uh literacy has helped to to sort of uh literacy has helped to to sort of uh solve for is unbelievable. It doesn't solve for is unbelievable. It doesn't solve for is unbelievable. It doesn't take very long. So, I would I would use take very long. So, I would I would use take very long. So, I would I would use the tools to kind of do that first and the tools to kind of do that first and the tools to kind of do that first and then I would say because that'll help then I would say because that'll help then I would say because that'll help you with prompts like the answers are you with prompts like the answers are you with prompts like the answers are only going to be as good as your only going to be as good as your only going to be as good as your prompts. So, prompts. So, prompts. So, >> once you've done that, then I use I use >> once you've done that, then I use I use >> once you've done that, then I use I use AI all the time. Uh, and there there's AI all the time. Uh, and there there's AI all the time. Uh, and there there's an expression which has been helpful for an expression which has been helpful for an expression which has been helpful for me. Uh, me. Uh, me. Uh, uh, I tend to I I can run pretty hot. I uh, I tend to I I can run pretty hot. I uh, I tend to I I can run pretty hot. I think that's chilled out a lot, but I think that's chilled out a lot, but I think that's chilled out a lot, but I can run pretty hot. I'm typically very can run pretty hot. I'm typically very can run pretty hot. I'm typically very impatient. I have been since I was like impatient. I have been since I was like impatient. I have been since I was like a toddler and uh the expression is don't a toddler and uh the expression is don't a toddler and uh the expression is don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to malice what you can attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence right but it attribute to incompetence right but it attribute to incompetence right but it goes further than that right because goes further than that right because goes further than that right because just because doesn't some you know just because doesn't some you know just because doesn't some you know somebody doesn't reply to you doesn't somebody doesn't reply to you doesn't somebody doesn't reply to you doesn't mean it's a personal fraud just because mean it's a personal fraud just because mean it's a personal fraud just because someone does something stupid and they someone does something stupid and they someone does something stupid and they answer one of your questions out of the answer one of your questions out of the answer one of your questions out of the three you emailed them you can be like a three you emailed them you can be like a three you emailed them you can be like a uh you can get really wound up but I uh you can get really wound up but I uh you can get really wound up but I would go further than that which is would go further than that which is would go further than that which is don't attribute to malice or don't attribute to malice or don't attribute to malice or incompetence what can be explained by a incompetence what can be explained by a incompetence what can be explained by a busy schedule, [laughter] right? People busy schedule, [laughter] right? People busy schedule, [laughter] right? People are busy. Everybody's busy. Nobody, by are busy. Everybody's busy. Nobody, by are busy. Everybody's busy. Nobody, by the way, AI is not going to give us more the way, AI is not going to give us more the way, AI is not going to give us more free time just to like [laughter] free time just to like [laughter] free time just to like [laughter] this whole idea of like the future of this whole idea of like the future of this whole idea of like the future of living in this leisure society where living in this leisure society where living in this leisure society where everybody can crochet and do sudoku all everybody can crochet and do sudoku all everybody can crochet and do sudoku all day and make you know mandelas on the day and make you know mandelas on the day and make you know mandelas on the floor. It's just compatently ridiculous floor. It's just compatently ridiculous floor. It's just compatently ridiculous for reasons we can get into. for reasons we can get into. for reasons we can get into. the what what you can do right is you the what what you can do right is you the what what you can do right is you can after developing this basic literacy can after developing this basic literacy can after developing this basic literacy you can go in and then you can ask you can go in and then you can ask you can go in and then you can ask questions that your doctors may not have questions that your doctors may not have questions that your doctors may not have time for. Uh I am always checking for time for. Uh I am always checking for time for. Uh I am always checking for contraindications between medications contraindications between medications contraindications between medications and also supplements because doctors and also supplements because doctors and also supplements because doctors will miss these. They will miss them. will miss these. They will miss them. will miss these. They will miss them. They might not miss the most obvious, They might not miss the most obvious, They might not miss the most obvious, but there are some that are not as but there are some that are not as but there are some that are not as obvious. For instance, like there are obvious. For instance, like there are obvious. For instance, like there are sleep medications like Trazadone which sleep medications like Trazadone which sleep medications like Trazadone which really affect the serotonin system. It's really affect the serotonin system. It's really affect the serotonin system. It's effectively, this is an overstatement, effectively, this is an overstatement, effectively, this is an overstatement, but it's effectively a failed but it's effectively a failed but it's effectively a failed anti-depressant. So, if you don't know anti-depressant. So, if you don't know anti-depressant. So, if you don't know that, and it's not technically exactly that, and it's not technically exactly that, and it's not technically exactly an SSRI like a Prozac, but there are an SSRI like a Prozac, but there are an SSRI like a Prozac, but there are some similarities. If you don't know some similarities. If you don't know some similarities. If you don't know that that that because you're quote unquote taking a because you're quote unquote taking a because you're quote unquote taking a sleep medication and then you go out and sleep medication and then you go out and sleep medication and then you go out and take something that's contraindicated take something that's contraindicated take something that's contraindicated for this entire class of sort of uh for this entire class of sort of uh for this entire class of sort of uh serotonin specific anti-depressants like serotonin specific anti-depressants like serotonin specific anti-depressants like you can get yourself into trouble. So I you can get yourself into trouble. So I you can get yourself into trouble. So I will regularly check for will regularly check for will regularly check for contraindications. contraindications. contraindications. That's one thing I do. I have friends That's one thing I do. I have friends That's one thing I do. I have friends who have uploaded their whole genome to who have uploaded their whole genome to who have uploaded their whole genome to some of these LLMs and asked for some of these LLMs and asked for some of these LLMs and asked for insights and they've they've identified insights and they've they've identified insights and they've they've identified some remarkable things. Um the risk in some remarkable things. Um the risk in some remarkable things. Um the risk in doing all of this is that you may doing all of this is that you may doing all of this is that you may uncover issues that if you are prone to uncover issues that if you are prone to uncover issues that if you are prone to anxiety anxiety anxiety for a lot of reasons I'm kind of for a lot of reasons I'm kind of for a lot of reasons I'm kind of inoculated against this with medical inoculated against this with medical inoculated against this with medical stuff because I've spent so much time in stuff because I've spent so much time in stuff because I've spent so much time in the the medical and scientific worlds. the the medical and scientific worlds. the the medical and scientific worlds. But uh I'll give you an example. Another But uh I'll give you an example. Another But uh I'll give you an example. Another thing that I do once a year or twice a thing that I do once a year or twice a thing that I do once a year or twice a year is a full body MRI. And there are year is a full body MRI. And there are year is a full body MRI. And there are companies that do do this. I think companies that do do this. I think companies that do do this. I think biograph is the highest level. Prenuvo biograph is the highest level. Prenuvo biograph is the highest level. Prenuvo is also pretty good, but I've seen a is also pretty good, but I've seen a is also pretty good, but I've seen a couple of people have cancers missed, couple of people have cancers missed, couple of people have cancers missed, which isn't great. So, which isn't great. So, which isn't great. So, if you get a full body MRI and you are if you get a full body MRI and you are if you get a full body MRI and you are over the age of 40, you're going to find over the age of 40, you're going to find over the age of 40, you're going to find something. You're probably going to find something. You're probably going to find something. You're probably going to find some type of internal cyst. You might some type of internal cyst. You might some type of internal cyst. You might find, if you had, as a friend of mine find, if you had, as a friend of mine find, if you had, as a friend of mine did, like a small brain aneurysm. Like, did, like a small brain aneurysm. Like, did, like a small brain aneurysm. Like, you you're probably going to find you you're probably going to find you you're probably going to find something. And the question is, something. And the question is, something. And the question is, can you handle that? Can you handle can you handle that? Can you handle can you handle that? Can you handle either doing something about it, which either doing something about it, which either doing something about it, which is presumably why why you're doing it in is presumably why why you're doing it in is presumably why why you're doing it in the first place, or can you deal with the first place, or can you deal with the first place, or can you deal with the overwhelming likelihood the overwhelming likelihood the overwhelming likelihood statistically that the doc the doctor's statistically that the doc the doctor's statistically that the doc the doctor's going to say, "Yeah, we found X, Y, or going to say, "Yeah, we found X, Y, or going to say, "Yeah, we found X, Y, or Z. You don't need to do anything about Z. You don't need to do anything about Z. You don't need to do anything about it. We'll just keep an eye on it." it. We'll just keep an eye on it." it. We'll just keep an eye on it." Are you going to be able to handle that Are you going to be able to handle that Are you going to be able to handle that without becoming a stress case who's without becoming a stress case who's without becoming a stress case who's going combing through LLMs and WebMD all going combing through LLMs and WebMD all going combing through LLMs and WebMD all day making yourself crazy? Anyway, I'll day making yourself crazy? Anyway, I'll day making yourself crazy? Anyway, I'll stop there. [laughter] stop there. [laughter] stop there. [laughter] But yes, I use these tools all the time. But yes, I use these tools all the time. But yes, I use these tools all the time. If you're going to use one tool, use If you're going to use one tool, use If you're going to use one tool, use another tool to fact check it. So, if another tool to fact check it. So, if another tool to fact check it. So, if you get something from Chat GPT, you get something from Chat GPT, you get something from Chat GPT, absolutely have that thing absolutely have that thing absolutely have that thing cross-examined by Claude or another cross-examined by Claude or another cross-examined by Claude or another tool, right? I do not trust these tools tool, right? I do not trust these tools tool, right? I do not trust these tools with their first answers. with their first answers. with their first answers. >> Just on the pan scan thing, the full >> Just on the pan scan thing, the full >> Just on the pan scan thing, the full body MRI, I'm u the ultimate um this is body MRI, I'm u the ultimate um this is body MRI, I'm u the ultimate um this is a bit of an aside, but I have figured a bit of an aside, but I have figured a bit of an aside, but I have figured out the ultimate health hack, which is out the ultimate health hack, which is out the ultimate health hack, which is marry a doctor um because [laughter] marry a doctor um because [laughter] marry a doctor um because [laughter] she can't get out of here and I ask her she can't get out of here and I ask her she can't get out of here and I ask her a lot of questions. Um, but she uh she a lot of questions. Um, but she uh she a lot of questions. Um, but she uh she is really against these pan scans for is really against these pan scans for is really against these pan scans for the very reason that you just stated, the very reason that you just stated, the very reason that you just stated, which is you will find something and it which is you will find something and it which is you will find something and it may stress you out or it may put you in may stress you out or it may put you in may stress you out or it may put you in the market for a procedure you don't the market for a procedure you don't the market for a procedure you don't need. Um, need. Um, need. Um, >> yeah. So, it's it's it's interesting the >> yeah. So, it's it's it's interesting the >> yeah. So, it's it's it's interesting the the P the differing POVs on this. Um, the P the differing POVs on this. Um, the P the differing POVs on this. Um, but let me but let me but let me >> Oh, sorry. Did you want to say something >> Oh, sorry. Did you want to say something >> Oh, sorry. Did you want to say something on that? No, I was going to say it's uh on that? No, I was going to say it's uh on that? No, I was going to say it's uh it's like be uh one of my favorite it's like be uh one of my favorite it's like be uh one of my favorite quotes is be suspicious of what you quotes is be suspicious of what you quotes is be suspicious of what you want. That's a roomy quote going way want. That's a roomy quote going way want. That's a roomy quote going way back. It's like we think that we want back. It's like we think that we want back. It's like we think that we want all of the health information we can all of the health information we can all of the health information we can possibly get, but you should be a little possibly get, but you should be a little possibly get, but you should be a little skeptical and suspicious of that if skeptical and suspicious of that if skeptical and suspicious of that if you've never dealt with a huge amount of you've never dealt with a huge amount of you've never dealt with a huge amount of health information at high resolution. health information at high resolution. health information at high resolution. So, yeah, it's it's it's a very personal So, yeah, it's it's it's a very personal So, yeah, it's it's it's a very personal thing in my case. thing in my case. thing in my case. you know, psychologically this you know, psychologically this you know, psychologically this particular type of kind of data particular type of kind of data particular type of kind of data overwhelm I'm pretty good with. overwhelm I'm pretty good with. overwhelm I'm pretty good with. >> So, I asked before about where you are >> So, I asked before about where you are >> So, I asked before about where you are with optimizing now, and you you you you with optimizing now, and you you you you with optimizing now, and you you you you listed a bunch of you said you're more listed a bunch of you said you're more listed a bunch of you said you're more surgical now and how and how you surgical now and how and how you surgical now and how and how you optimize, and you listed a bunch of optimize, and you listed a bunch of optimize, and you listed a bunch of areas, including um uh um how you eat. areas, including um uh um how you eat. areas, including um uh um how you eat. Um, Um, Um, you did put out a a podcast in August of you did put out a a podcast in August of you did put out a a podcast in August of 2025 talking about some of your 2025 talking about some of your 2025 talking about some of your rethinking of optimizing. Um, I'd just rethinking of optimizing. Um, I'd just rethinking of optimizing. Um, I'd just be curious like where are you at with be curious like where are you at with be curious like where are you at with that now? that now? that now? >> Yeah. I mean, I I think that [cough] >> Yeah. I mean, I I think that [cough] >> Yeah. I mean, I I think that [cough] [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] optimizing optimizing optimizing is the how, right? Broadly speaking, is the how, right? Broadly speaking, is the how, right? Broadly speaking, right? So, optimizing is how you do right? So, optimizing is how you do right? So, optimizing is how you do something. something. something. Much more important than how you do Much more important than how you do Much more important than how you do something is the few somethings that you something is the few somethings that you something is the few somethings that you choose in the first place to do. Right? choose in the first place to do. Right? choose in the first place to do. Right? So this applies to learning quickly. So this applies to learning quickly. So this applies to learning quickly. This applies to making a lot of money. This applies to making a lot of money. This applies to making a lot of money. This applies to getting in great shape. This applies to getting in great shape. This applies to getting in great shape. Like what you do in a sense matters a Like what you do in a sense matters a Like what you do in a sense matters a lot more than how you do anything. You lot more than how you do anything. You lot more than how you do anything. You can get very very very good, very can get very very very good, very can get very very very good, very optimized, very efficient at doing optimized, very efficient at doing optimized, very efficient at doing something unimportant. That does not something unimportant. That does not something unimportant. That does not make it important. just makes you very make it important. just makes you very make it important. just makes you very good at doing something that you good at doing something that you good at doing something that you probably shouldn't be doing in the first probably shouldn't be doing in the first probably shouldn't be doing in the first place. And I think modern productivity place. And I think modern productivity place. And I think modern productivity porn is porn is porn is sort of indiscriminate in how it applies sort of indiscriminate in how it applies sort of indiscriminate in how it applies optimizing to everything and everything, optimizing to everything and everything, optimizing to everything and everything, right? There's some very funny uh we right? There's some very funny uh we right? There's some very funny uh we don't have to link to them, but kind of don't have to link to them, but kind of don't have to link to them, but kind of morning routines that are these YouTube morning routines that are these YouTube morning routines that are these YouTube videos that are like four or five hours videos that are like four or five hours videos that are like four or five hours long, right? of people going through long, right? of people going through long, right? of people going through their day. [laughter] their day. [laughter] their day. [laughter] There's a point at which your morning There's a point at which your morning There's a point at which your morning routine just turns into like a 5 hour routine just turns into like a 5 hour routine just turns into like a 5 hour warm-up uh for life each day. And warm-up uh for life each day. And warm-up uh for life each day. And uh that's obviously a really extreme uh that's obviously a really extreme uh that's obviously a really extreme example, but for me I if you were to example, but for me I if you were to example, but for me I if you were to have a nanny cam like hidden in a little have a nanny cam like hidden in a little have a nanny cam like hidden in a little stuffed like stuffed bear in my house, stuffed like stuffed bear in my house, stuffed like stuffed bear in my house, my office, my office, my office, this Airbnb where I am right now, and this Airbnb where I am right now, and this Airbnb where I am right now, and you watched me on any given day, you you watched me on any given day, you you watched me on any given day, you would just be like, "What is this guy would just be like, "What is this guy would just be like, "What is this guy doing?" I mean, it's like a a poorly doing?" I mean, it's like a a poorly doing?" I mean, it's like a a poorly programmed Roomba. Like I don't Is this programmed Roomba. Like I don't Is this programmed Roomba. Like I don't Is this like the Blair Witch Project? like like the Blair Witch Project? like like the Blair Witch Project? like [laughter] it doesn't seem to be doing [laughter] it doesn't seem to be doing [laughter] it doesn't seem to be doing much work. Like what is he doing? And much work. Like what is he doing? And much work. Like what is he doing? And the part of the reason I can get away the part of the reason I can get away the part of the reason I can get away with that is that I think I am very good with that is that I think I am very good with that is that I think I am very good at measuring twice and cutting once. In at measuring twice and cutting once. In at measuring twice and cutting once. In this context, what that means is I'm this context, what that means is I'm this context, what that means is I'm spending a lot of time looking at doing spending a lot of time looking at doing spending a lot of time looking at doing 8020 analysis, asking myself, you know, 8020 analysis, asking myself, you know, 8020 analysis, asking myself, you know, what can I do that is not easily what can I do that is not easily what can I do that is not easily replicated by someone else that I find replicated by someone else that I find replicated by someone else that I find easier to do than other people, which is easier to do than other people, which is easier to do than other people, which is kind of a shortcut to finding things kind of a shortcut to finding things kind of a shortcut to finding things that you're good at that you will also that you're good at that you will also that you're good at that you will also have the endurance for because you're have the endurance for because you're have the endurance for because you're kind of it's easier for you or you're kind of it's easier for you or you're kind of it's easier for you or you're obsessed with it. Okay, what am I obsessed with it. Okay, what am I obsessed with it. Okay, what am I obsessed with? What am I doing at my off obsessed with? What am I doing at my off obsessed with? What am I doing at my off hours? Okay, let me try to find a ven hours? Okay, let me try to find a ven hours? Okay, let me try to find a ven diagram of that and then focus on those diagram of that and then focus on those diagram of that and then focus on those things. I'll test it for a very short things. I'll test it for a very short things. I'll test it for a very short period of time to see if it if number period of time to see if it if number period of time to see if it if number one I can sustain it if I am actually as one I can sustain it if I am actually as one I can sustain it if I am actually as good as I thought I would be and I don't good as I thought I would be and I don't good as I thought I would be and I don't I need to be the best in the world but I need to be the best in the world but I need to be the best in the world but you know better than average [snorts] you know better than average [snorts] you know better than average [snorts] and then over time as I'm throwing a lot and then over time as I'm throwing a lot and then over time as I'm throwing a lot against the wall and then I'm looking against the wall and then I'm looking against the wall and then I'm looking back and saying okay I tried these three back and saying okay I tried these three back and saying okay I tried these three things or I made these four investments things or I made these four investments things or I made these four investments I had these assumptions at the time did I had these assumptions at the time did I had these assumptions at the time did they pan out why or why not and then they pan out why or why not and then they pan out why or why not and then course correcting. They're actually very course correcting. They're actually very course correcting. They're actually very very very very few things you have to very very very few things you have to very very very few things you have to get right get right get right in my opinion to have an incredible in my opinion to have an incredible in my opinion to have an incredible life. You don't need to be great at a life. You don't need to be great at a life. You don't need to be great at a lot of things is my perspective. It's lot of things is my perspective. It's lot of things is my perspective. It's like look if I remember talking to Jerry like look if I remember talking to Jerry like look if I remember talking to Jerry Seinfeld Seinfeld Seinfeld and uh one of his conclusions was if you and uh one of his conclusions was if you and uh one of his conclusions was if you lift weights and do transendental lift weights and do transendental lift weights and do transendental meditation that'll solve pretty much all meditation that'll solve pretty much all meditation that'll solve pretty much all your problems. [laughter] your problems. [laughter] your problems. [laughter] That's just, and I'm paraphrasing, but That's just, and I'm paraphrasing, but That's just, and I'm paraphrasing, but it wasn't too far from that. He's like, it wasn't too far from that. He's like, it wasn't too far from that. He's like, if you lift weights and do TM, it will if you lift weights and do TM, it will if you lift weights and do TM, it will solve most of your problems. And I like solve most of your problems. And I like solve most of your problems. And I like that because I think there's a whole that because I think there's a whole that because I think there's a whole hell of a lot of truth to it, that hell of a lot of truth to it, that hell of a lot of truth to it, that distilling down, and it makes life seem distilling down, and it makes life seem distilling down, and it makes life seem much more manageable, much more manageable, much more manageable, right? If people feel like they have to right? If people feel like they have to right? If people feel like they have to win this super ultra decathlon of life win this super ultra decathlon of life win this super ultra decathlon of life where instead of 10 sports there are 150 where instead of 10 sports there are 150 where instead of 10 sports there are 150 sports you have to be good at. Who is sports you have to be good at. Who is sports you have to be good at. Who is who's going to actually surmount that who's going to actually surmount that who's going to actually surmount that and cope with it? Well, nobody. So for and cope with it? Well, nobody. So for and cope with it? Well, nobody. So for me it's like look me it's like look me it's like look if I had to just pull a rabbit out of a if I had to just pull a rabbit out of a if I had to just pull a rabbit out of a hat right now to pick a few, I'd be like hat right now to pick a few, I'd be like hat right now to pick a few, I'd be like read non-violent communication. Like read non-violent communication. Like read non-violent communication. Like figure out how to talk to people without figure out how to talk to people without figure out how to talk to people without sounding overly defensive or aggressive. sounding overly defensive or aggressive. sounding overly defensive or aggressive. Okay. [laughter] Okay. [laughter] Okay. [laughter] like [snorts] life like [snorts] life like [snorts] life unless we're going to be a monk of some unless we're going to be a monk of some unless we're going to be a monk of some type or a nun like and even then type or a nun like and even then type or a nun like and even then probably there's some crazy internal probably there's some crazy internal probably there's some crazy internal politics at the hamlet in China if you politics at the hamlet in China if you politics at the hamlet in China if you want you know the abbot you're going to want you know the abbot you're going to want you know the abbot you're going to have to deal with that abbot uh so work have to deal with that abbot uh so work have to deal with that abbot uh so work on your communication right take that on your communication right take that on your communication right take that very seriously as like the connective very seriously as like the connective very seriously as like the connective tissue for everything tissue for everything tissue for everything don't invest in things you don't don't invest in things you don't don't invest in things you don't understand understand understand it's like when in doubt like read a few it's like when in doubt like read a few it's like when in doubt like read a few books on like [laughter and gasps] books on like [laughter and gasps] books on like [laughter and gasps] lowcost index funds in the S&P 500. Like lowcost index funds in the S&P 500. Like lowcost index funds in the S&P 500. Like go look at the graph over the last 5, go look at the graph over the last 5, go look at the graph over the last 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Like you might have 10, 15, 20 years. Like you might have 10, 15, 20 years. Like you might have some hard dips here and there, but if some hard dips here and there, but if some hard dips here and there, but if you're trying to get fancy and invest in you're trying to get fancy and invest in you're trying to get fancy and invest in like individual AI stocks, like wow. like individual AI stocks, like wow. like individual AI stocks, like wow. Like maybe you'll pick Amazon and Google Like maybe you'll pick Amazon and Google Like maybe you'll pick Amazon and Google out of all the trash there is right now, out of all the trash there is right now, out of all the trash there is right now, but most of us won't. I don't think I but most of us won't. I don't think I but most of us won't. I don't think I can do it. Uh lift weights, right? Try can do it. Uh lift weights, right? Try can do it. Uh lift weights, right? Try to do some zone 2 training where it's to do some zone 2 training where it's to do some zone 2 training where it's like you you could speak in single like you you could speak in single like you you could speak in single sentences but you don't really want to sentences but you don't really want to sentences but you don't really want to do that for like 30 to 60 minutes a few do that for like 30 to 60 minutes a few do that for like 30 to 60 minutes a few times a week. Okay. times a week. Okay. times a week. Okay. And then like don't eat processed crap And then like don't eat processed crap And then like don't eat processed crap like Michael Michael Pollen rules, like Michael Michael Pollen rules, like Michael Michael Pollen rules, right? It's like if your grandmother right? It's like if your grandmother right? It's like if your grandmother wouldn't recognize the ingredients, wouldn't recognize the ingredients, wouldn't recognize the ingredients, don't eat it. Okay. Try that. Like don't eat it. Okay. Try that. Like don't eat it. Okay. Try that. Like [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] I think I think you'll [snorts] do I think I think you'll [snorts] do I think I think you'll [snorts] do pretty well. pretty well. pretty well. >> Hard to argue with any of that. Um and >> Hard to argue with any of that. Um and >> Hard to argue with any of that. Um and it and I think the question I'm going to it and I think the question I'm going to it and I think the question I'm going to ask next is apppropo. Um ask next is apppropo. Um ask next is apppropo. Um you one of your current projects is you one of your current projects is you one of your current projects is called the no book. Um called the no book. Um called the no book. Um >> and uh you uh the book as Tim has uh >> and uh you uh the book as Tim has uh >> and uh you uh the book as Tim has uh pointed out may come out in 10 years pointed out may come out in 10 years pointed out may come out in 10 years because he's working on it slowly but he because he's working on it slowly but he because he's working on it slowly but he has released a couple of chapters online has released a couple of chapters online has released a couple of chapters online and I've read at least one of them um and I've read at least one of them um and I've read at least one of them um and it's really interesting. Um uh so and it's really interesting. Um uh so and it's really interesting. Um uh so before I say too much, maybe you could before I say too much, maybe you could before I say too much, maybe you could describe what is the notebook and and describe what is the notebook and and describe what is the notebook and and why are you writing it if if only why are you writing it if if only why are you writing it if if only slowly. slowly. slowly. >> Yeah. Yeah. I have an 800page draft >> Yeah. Yeah. I have an 800page draft >> Yeah. Yeah. I have an 800page draft right now. So it's going to need to get right now. So it's going to need to get right now. So it's going to need to get whittleled down a little bit. But the whittleled down a little bit. But the whittleled down a little bit. But the notebook started something like boy 6 notebook started something like boy 6 notebook started something like boy 6 years ago where I noticed a lot of years ago where I noticed a lot of years ago where I noticed a lot of people in my audience, my listeners, my people in my audience, my listeners, my people in my audience, my listeners, my readers struggling with focus and saying readers struggling with focus and saying readers struggling with focus and saying no. Because fundamentally no. Because fundamentally no. Because fundamentally like the the road to where you want to like the the road to where you want to like the the road to where you want to be in life is be in life is be in life is the sort of the Wizard of Oz, you know, the sort of the Wizard of Oz, you know, the sort of the Wizard of Oz, you know, golden brick road is saying yes to a few golden brick road is saying yes to a few golden brick road is saying yes to a few things. A few things, right? There are things. A few things, right? There are things. A few things, right? There are really there are just a few things you really there are just a few things you really there are just a few things you have to get right. And then the the have to get right. And then the the have to get right. And then the the guardrails for that are that's that's guardrails for that are that's that's guardrails for that are that's that's the yes road. And it's very few things. the yes road. And it's very few things. the yes road. And it's very few things. the guardrails for that are no, you have the guardrails for that are no, you have the guardrails for that are no, you have to say no the entire way. And to say no the entire way. And to say no the entire way. And I was I was writing this book. I reached I was I was writing this book. I reached I was I was writing this book. I reached out to a bunch of my my friends. These out to a bunch of my my friends. These out to a bunch of my my friends. These are very accomplished friends in this are very accomplished friends in this are very accomplished friends in this case to ask them for their case to ask them for their case to ask them for their recommendations. I thought they would recommendations. I thought they would recommendations. I thought they would help me write this thing and they were help me write this thing and they were help me write this thing and they were like, "Oh my god, are you kidding me? like, "Oh my god, are you kidding me? like, "Oh my god, are you kidding me? Like this is the biggest pain in my Like this is the biggest pain in my Like this is the biggest pain in my life. Please send me an early copy when life. Please send me an early copy when life. Please send me an early copy when you can." So my friends were there were you can." So my friends were there were you can." So my friends were there were there were a few who were actually very there were a few who were actually very there were a few who were actually very helpful, but the vast majority were helpful, but the vast majority were helpful, but the vast majority were like, "Oh my god, I thought that life like, "Oh my god, I thought that life like, "Oh my god, I thought that life was going to get easier. It has only was going to get easier. It has only was going to get easier. It has only gotten harder with respect to saying gotten harder with respect to saying gotten harder with respect to saying no." And uh and I it just became this no." And uh and I it just became this no." And uh and I it just became this massive project. So I put it I put it on massive project. So I put it I put it on massive project. So I put it I put it on the back burner. And then a friend of the back burner. And then a friend of the back burner. And then a friend of mine, Neil Strauss, some people might mine, Neil Strauss, some people might mine, Neil Strauss, some people might recognize that name. He's written recognize that name. He's written recognize that name. He's written something like 10 New York Times something like 10 New York Times something like 10 New York Times bestsellers. He wrote The Dirt. He's bestsellers. He wrote The Dirt. He's bestsellers. He wrote The Dirt. He's written these biographies of Molly Crew written these biographies of Molly Crew written these biographies of Molly Crew and like all these celebrities. and he and like all these celebrities. and he and like all these celebrities. and he also wrote The Game and Emergency and also wrote The Game and Emergency and also wrote The Game and Emergency and many other books. And he's terrible at many other books. And he's terrible at many other books. And he's terrible at saying no, it turns out. And he was saying no, it turns out. And he was saying no, it turns out. And he was busting my balls about not writing this busting my balls about not writing this busting my balls about not writing this book. And he kept harassing me about book. And he kept harassing me about book. And he kept harassing me about finishing it. And he was actually kind finishing it. And he was actually kind finishing it. And he was actually kind of creating a kurfuffle over a group of creating a kurfuffle over a group of creating a kurfuffle over a group dinner after a few drinks. And I was dinner after a few drinks. And I was dinner after a few drinks. And I was just like, "Neil, if you want to read just like, "Neil, if you want to read just like, "Neil, if you want to read this book so badly, why don't you just this book so badly, why don't you just this book so badly, why don't you just help me finish writing it?" And I help me finish writing it?" And I help me finish writing it?" And I thought that put it to bed. And then the thought that put it to bed. And then the thought that put it to bed. And then the next day when he we all sobered up, he next day when he we all sobered up, he next day when he we all sobered up, he was like, you know, if you're serious, was like, you know, if you're serious, was like, you know, if you're serious, why don't we talk about it? And why don't we talk about it? And why don't we talk about it? And at the same time, I was noticing with at the same time, I was noticing with at the same time, I was noticing with social media, certainly with AI, it's social media, certainly with AI, it's social media, certainly with AI, it's going to get a thousand times worse. The going to get a thousand times worse. The going to get a thousand times worse. The ability, well, first of all, like the ability, well, first of all, like the ability, well, first of all, like the external forces that want to distract external forces that want to distract external forces that want to distract you are almost you are almost you are almost unbeatable. I mean, it's it's it's unbeatable. I mean, it's it's it's unbeatable. I mean, it's it's it's incredible how sophisticated they are. incredible how sophisticated they are. incredible how sophisticated they are. Secondly, the way that enables self Secondly, the way that enables self Secondly, the way that enables self interruption and distraction is interruption and distraction is interruption and distraction is something that humanity has never seen something that humanity has never seen something that humanity has never seen before. before. before. And there is this incredible pain in And there is this incredible pain in And there is this incredible pain in terms of paradox of choice, right? What terms of paradox of choice, right? What terms of paradox of choice, right? What should I do? Who should I listen to? should I do? Who should I listen to? should I do? Who should I listen to? What should I watch? What should I pay What should I watch? What should I pay What should I watch? What should I pay attention to? That is fracturing the attention to? That is fracturing the attention to? That is fracturing the psyches of people. And this, by the way, psyches of people. And this, by the way, psyches of people. And this, by the way, does not discriminate geographically, does not discriminate geographically, does not discriminate geographically, does not discriminate economically. It's does not discriminate economically. It's does not discriminate economically. It's like up and down the chain, left, right, like up and down the chain, left, right, like up and down the chain, left, right, front, center, everywhere. Uh, so I the front, center, everywhere. Uh, so I the front, center, everywhere. Uh, so I the problems just seem to be getting bigger problems just seem to be getting bigger problems just seem to be getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So wrote this and bigger and bigger. So wrote this and bigger and bigger. So wrote this book with Neil basically as the the book with Neil basically as the the book with Neil basically as the the student. And what's what's fun about it, student. And what's what's fun about it, student. And what's what's fun about it, I think it's my most entertaining and I think it's my most entertaining and I think it's my most entertaining and hilarious book in a way because hilarious book in a way because hilarious book in a way because I'm giving Neil these assignments and I'm giving Neil these assignments and I'm giving Neil these assignments and then he'll try them, but it'll be like then he'll try them, but it'll be like then he'll try them, but it'll be like passive aggressive and he'll screw one passive aggressive and he'll screw one passive aggressive and he'll screw one up or he like he'll he'll actually not up or he like he'll he'll actually not up or he like he'll he'll actually not do 50% of the assignment and then I'll do 50% of the assignment and then I'll do 50% of the assignment and then I'll follow up and he'll have all this guilt. follow up and he'll have all this guilt. follow up and he'll have all this guilt. But we have real examples of like emails But we have real examples of like emails But we have real examples of like emails he tried to send, text messages he's he tried to send, text messages he's he tried to send, text messages he's trying to send. He's trying everything trying to send. He's trying everything trying to send. He's trying everything in the book and learning as he goes. And in the book and learning as he goes. And in the book and learning as he goes. And I would say uh there are a few people I would say uh there are a few people I would say uh there are a few people who have proof read the whole thing and who have proof read the whole thing and who have proof read the whole thing and they proof read it like a year ago and they proof read it like a year ago and they proof read it like a year ago and they've they've come back and and these they've they've come back and and these they've they've come back and and these are fans of my stuff who've read my are fans of my stuff who've read my are fans of my stuff who've read my other books and they're like this book other books and they're like this book other books and they're like this book has had a huge [snorts] impact on my has had a huge [snorts] impact on my has had a huge [snorts] impact on my life and they still give me examples. So life and they still give me examples. So life and they still give me examples. So to to then answer the question of well to to then answer the question of well to to then answer the question of well what exactly is the book talking about? what exactly is the book talking about? what exactly is the book talking about? The book is talking about how to say no The book is talking about how to say no The book is talking about how to say no in a world of compulsive yes. Right? in a world of compulsive yes. Right? in a world of compulsive yes. Right? [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] But what I've what I've what's important But what I've what I've what's important But what I've what I've what's important to note about this is that this is also to note about this is that this is also to note about this is that this is also true with the 4-hour body and like why true with the 4-hour body and like why true with the 4-hour body and like why that worked for so many people when that worked for so many people when that worked for so many people when other books kind of diet exercise books other books kind of diet exercise books other books kind of diet exercise books had failed. It's not enough to just have had failed. It's not enough to just have had failed. It's not enough to just have a couple of index cards or templates for a couple of index cards or templates for a couple of index cards or templates for doing exercise for saying no. If that doing exercise for saying no. If that doing exercise for saying no. If that would have worked it would have worked would have worked it would have worked would have worked it would have worked already, right? already, right? already, right? And [snorts] And [snorts] And [snorts] sure, I can give examples, and I give sure, I can give examples, and I give sure, I can give examples, and I give tons of examples of lines that are tons of examples of lines that are tons of examples of lines that are helpful for saying no, like Martha Beck, helpful for saying no, like Martha Beck, helpful for saying no, like Martha Beck, who is like Oprah Winfreyy's life coach who is like Oprah Winfreyy's life coach who is like Oprah Winfreyy's life coach and is an amazing woman in her own right and is an amazing woman in her own right and is an amazing woman in her own right for a lot of reasons. U she turned me for a lot of reasons. U she turned me for a lot of reasons. U she turned me down for something and I include these down for something and I include these down for something and I include these real nos, right? Cuz I kept my favorite real nos, right? Cuz I kept my favorite real nos, right? Cuz I kept my favorite declines and people like rejections over declines and people like rejections over declines and people like rejections over 10 years and [laughter] 10 years and [laughter] 10 years and [laughter] and so I share a bunch of them. And she and so I share a bunch of them. And she and so I share a bunch of them. And she said to me, "I really wish I could, but said to me, "I really wish I could, but said to me, "I really wish I could, but I can't do the life Tetris." Right? I'm I can't do the life Tetris." Right? I'm I can't do the life Tetris." Right? I'm like, "Do the life Tetris." And I was like, "Do the life Tetris." And I was like, "Do the life Tetris." And I was like, "Wow, that is so good. You're not like, "Wow, that is so good. You're not like, "Wow, that is so good. You're not explaining. You're not defending. You're explaining. You're not defending. You're explaining. You're not defending. You're not giving a bunch of stuff that someone not giving a bunch of stuff that someone not giving a bunch of stuff that someone can try to negotiate around. It's just can try to negotiate around. It's just can try to negotiate around. It's just like, hey, I really wish I could. I just like, hey, I really wish I could. I just like, hey, I really wish I could. I just can't do life Tetris." And so, I give can't do life Tetris." And so, I give can't do life Tetris." And so, I give examples like that, but that is not examples like that, but that is not examples like that, but that is not enough. Uh once you start really digging enough. Uh once you start really digging enough. Uh once you start really digging into why people have trouble saying no, into why people have trouble saying no, into why people have trouble saying no, it's not only because they lack it's not only because they lack it's not only because they lack templates. It's because of certain core templates. It's because of certain core templates. It's because of certain core beliefs, beliefs, beliefs, which are thoughts we take to be true to which are thoughts we take to be true to which are thoughts we take to be true to kind of quote Byron Katy kind of quote Byron Katy kind of quote Byron Katy and philosophies they have that they're and philosophies they have that they're and philosophies they have that they're not even aware of that make it almost not even aware of that make it almost not even aware of that make it almost impossible to say no. Right? And that impossible to say no. Right? And that impossible to say no. Right? And that could relate to FOMO. It could be could relate to FOMO. It could be could relate to FOMO. It could be related to a very scarcity-minded related to a very scarcity-minded related to a very scarcity-minded limited number of opportunities, right? limited number of opportunities, right? limited number of opportunities, right? A belief that you can't generate A belief that you can't generate A belief that you can't generate opportunities yourself. You have to wait opportunities yourself. You have to wait opportunities yourself. You have to wait for things to come as inbound. It could for things to come as inbound. It could for things to come as inbound. It could relate to and I hit these very early on relate to and I hit these very early on relate to and I hit these very early on and actually I think they're in the and actually I think they're in the and actually I think they're in the sample chapters that people can get. Uh sample chapters that people can get. Uh sample chapters that people can get. Uh if if people go to tim.blog/nobook if if people go to tim.blog/nobook if if people go to tim.blog/nobook so tim.blog is the actual URL/nowbook, so tim.blog is the actual URL/nowbook, so tim.blog is the actual URL/nowbook, one word. I think it's like 30 or 40 one word. I think it's like 30 or 40 one word. I think it's like 30 or 40 pages of the book that will get into pages of the book that will get into pages of the book that will get into this, but a lot of folks will say, "I'm this, but a lot of folks will say, "I'm this, but a lot of folks will say, "I'm too nice for that." Okay, we unpack that too nice for that." Okay, we unpack that too nice for that." Okay, we unpack that because there's a lot there, right? Must because there's a lot there, right? Must because there's a lot there, right? Must be nice for Tim or fill in the blank be nice for Tim or fill in the blank be nice for Tim or fill in the blank because they're already successful. I because they're already successful. I because they're already successful. I don't have that luxury, right? Okay, don't have that luxury, right? Okay, don't have that luxury, right? Okay, well, let's actually double click on well, let's actually double click on well, let's actually double click on that and start to interrogate some of that and start to interrogate some of that and start to interrogate some of these beliefs and on and on and on. So these beliefs and on and on and on. So these beliefs and on and on and on. So saying no in a durable way like really saying no in a durable way like really saying no in a durable way like really developing a toolkit which as far as I'm developing a toolkit which as far as I'm developing a toolkit which as far as I'm concerned is like a self-preservation concerned is like a self-preservation concerned is like a self-preservation necessity. Now when I first started it 6 necessity. Now when I first started it 6 necessity. Now when I first started it 6 years ago I was like if people really years ago I was like if people really years ago I was like if people really want to get kind of 10x results in their want to get kind of 10x results in their want to get kind of 10x results in their life and continue to apply the things life and continue to apply the things life and continue to apply the things from the 4-hour work like 8020 etc. they from the 4-hour work like 8020 etc. they from the 4-hour work like 8020 etc. they really need to have a reliable tool here really need to have a reliable tool here really need to have a reliable tool here for saying no. Now looking at social for saying no. Now looking at social for saying no. Now looking at social media AI, social media enabled AI, blah media AI, social media enabled AI, blah media AI, social media enabled AI, blah blah blah blah blah. What it's going to blah blah blah blah. What it's going to blah blah blah blah. What it's going to do to inboxes, messaging, etc. with do to inboxes, messaging, etc. with do to inboxes, messaging, etc. with personalization, spam, you fill in the personalization, spam, you fill in the personalization, spam, you fill in the blank that are indistinguishable from blank that are indistinguishable from blank that are indistinguishable from humans. Uh this is it's this is like humans. Uh this is it's this is like humans. Uh this is it's this is like knowing how to breathe. As far as I'm knowing how to breathe. As far as I'm knowing how to breathe. As far as I'm concerned, you have to have a toolkit concerned, you have to have a toolkit concerned, you have to have a toolkit like this or you're just going to get like this or you're just going to get like this or you're just going to get you're going to be roadkill, I think. you're going to be roadkill, I think. you're going to be roadkill, I think. And I that sounds probably very And I that sounds probably very And I that sounds probably very dramatic, but it's like I'm sitting in dramatic, but it's like I'm sitting in dramatic, but it's like I'm sitting in Silicon Valley right now for my first Silicon Valley right now for my first Silicon Valley right now for my first trip here for a few weeks um of in trip here for a few weeks um of in trip here for a few weeks um of in duration in like 8 years. I'm telling duration in like 8 years. I'm telling duration in like 8 years. I'm telling you guys, the stuff that's coming is you guys, the stuff that's coming is you guys, the stuff that's coming is going to be amazing. It's going to be going to be amazing. It's going to be going to be amazing. It's going to be incredible. It's also just going to be incredible. It's also just going to be incredible. It's also just going to be it's going to be catastrophic for I it's going to be catastrophic for I it's going to be catastrophic for I think a lot of minds that are unprepared think a lot of minds that are unprepared think a lot of minds that are unprepared with the proper toolkits. So saying no with the proper toolkits. So saying no with the proper toolkits. So saying no is important. is important. is important. >> Agreed. And it's a huge struggle for me. >> Agreed. And it's a huge struggle for me. >> Agreed. And it's a huge struggle for me. You have a beautiful phrase in your book You have a beautiful phrase in your book You have a beautiful phrase in your book uh promiscuous over commitment and I um uh promiscuous over commitment and I um uh promiscuous over commitment and I um am really really guilty of that. You am really really guilty of that. You am really really guilty of that. You also there's another nice phrase you you also there's another nice phrase you you also there's another nice phrase you you you say the book will help you build a you say the book will help you build a you say the book will help you build a benevolent failank uh protective wall of benevolent failank uh protective wall of benevolent failank uh protective wall of troops to guard your goals. Uh troops to guard your goals. Uh troops to guard your goals. Uh we don't have time to talk about all of we don't have time to talk about all of we don't have time to talk about all of the tools in there but is there a tool the tools in there but is there a tool the tools in there but is there a tool in particular you think that is that in particular you think that is that in particular you think that is that would be very very powerful for people? would be very very powerful for people? would be very very powerful for people? >> Yes absolutely. Um, so there a lot of >> Yes absolutely. Um, so there a lot of >> Yes absolutely. Um, so there a lot of folks have perhaps heard the apocryphal folks have perhaps heard the apocryphal folks have perhaps heard the apocryphal story of and I think I I I give proper story of and I think I I I give proper story of and I think I I I give proper credit in the book and this is one of credit in the book and this is one of credit in the book and this is one of the chapters that people can get. Um, so the chapters that people can get. Um, so the chapters that people can get. Um, so there's plenty of value that people can there's plenty of value that people can there's plenty of value that people can get from the from the free stuff, but I get from the from the free stuff, but I get from the from the free stuff, but I mean I'm not even selling it yet, so mean I'm not even selling it yet, so mean I'm not even selling it yet, so maybe I'll give away more. But the uh maybe I'll give away more. But the uh maybe I'll give away more. But the uh the the one of the culprits, one of the the the one of the culprits, one of the the the one of the culprits, one of the biggest causal factors for why people biggest causal factors for why people biggest causal factors for why people have trouble saying no is they don't have trouble saying no is they don't have trouble saying no is they don't have big enough yeses to defend, have big enough yeses to defend, have big enough yeses to defend, >> right? And for instance, if you don't >> right? And for instance, if you don't >> right? And for instance, if you don't have like if you had a brand new child, have like if you had a brand new child, have like if you had a brand new child, if you had or someone you loved, god if you had or someone you loved, god if you had or someone you loved, god forbid, had a serious cancer diagnosis, forbid, had a serious cancer diagnosis, forbid, had a serious cancer diagnosis, if you had tiger by the tail and knew if you had tiger by the tail and knew if you had tiger by the tail and knew that you were working on a business, I'm that you were working on a business, I'm that you were working on a business, I'm using an extreme example on purpose that using an extreme example on purpose that using an extreme example on purpose that could be worth billions of dollars, you could be worth billions of dollars, you could be worth billions of dollars, you would not have trouble saying no to would not have trouble saying no to would not have trouble saying no to things, [laughter] things, [laughter] things, [laughter] right? And so then like we go back to right? And so then like we go back to right? And so then like we go back to the other end of the spectrum. It's like the other end of the spectrum. It's like the other end of the spectrum. It's like well if you don't have really clearly well if you don't have really clearly well if you don't have really clearly defined big yes yeses defined big yes yeses defined big yes yeses that get you excited that have the that get you excited that have the that get you excited that have the potential for huge payoff not potential for huge payoff not potential for huge payoff not necessarily financially necessarily financially necessarily financially and you're kind of searching around your and you're kind of searching around your and you're kind of searching around your inbox for things to answer. Right? When inbox for things to answer. Right? When inbox for things to answer. Right? When people send you an invite to a dinner or people send you an invite to a dinner or people send you an invite to a dinner or they want to have coffee to pick your they want to have coffee to pick your they want to have coffee to pick your brain or it could be anything, a costume brain or it could be anything, a costume brain or it could be anything, a costume party you don't want to go to. That's a party you don't want to go to. That's a party you don't want to go to. That's a real example from Neil actually. real example from Neil actually. real example from Neil actually. [laughter] And And you're going to say yes because what's you're going to say yes because what's you're going to say yes because what's scarier than having lots of little scarier than having lots of little scarier than having lots of little promiscuous overcommitments? It's a big promiscuous overcommitments? It's a big promiscuous overcommitments? It's a big void. void. void. >> Right? So the apocryphal story that I >> Right? So the apocryphal story that I >> Right? So the apocryphal story that I was hinting at um is the story of the was hinting at um is the story of the was hinting at um is the story of the professor who comes in and this I I want professor who comes in and this I I want professor who comes in and this I I want to say this was from originally Steven to say this was from originally Steven to say this was from originally Steven Cvy or maybe Steven Cvy adapted it Cvy or maybe Steven Cvy adapted it Cvy or maybe Steven Cvy adapted it >> the seven habits of highly effective >> the seven habits of highly effective >> the seven habits of highly effective people I believe was the book people I believe was the book people I believe was the book >> and it might have been in his teaching >> and it might have been in his teaching >> and it might have been in his teaching and not in the books themselves but the and not in the books themselves but the and not in the books themselves but the the story is along these lines. the story is along these lines. the story is along these lines. professor goes in and [clears throat] professor goes in and [clears throat] professor goes in and [clears throat] he puts out on the desk in front of the he puts out on the desk in front of the he puts out on the desk in front of the students like a large mason jar, a students like a large mason jar, a students like a large mason jar, a handful of big rocks, right? Like like handful of big rocks, right? Like like handful of big rocks, right? Like like three or four, a bunch of gravel and three or four, a bunch of gravel and three or four, a bunch of gravel and then a bunch of sand. And he challenges then a bunch of sand. And he challenges then a bunch of sand. And he challenges the students, asks them first how they the students, asks them first how they the students, asks them first how they would fit as much as possible into the would fit as much as possible into the would fit as much as possible into the mason jar. And they try different mason jar. And they try different mason jar. And they try different approaches. So, if you put in the sand approaches. So, if you put in the sand approaches. So, if you put in the sand first, then you get a little bit of first, then you get a little bit of first, then you get a little bit of gravel in, can't fit the rocks. Okay. gravel in, can't fit the rocks. Okay. gravel in, can't fit the rocks. Okay. Well, ditto. If you put the gravel in Well, ditto. If you put the gravel in Well, ditto. If you put the gravel in first, then you put in the sand, maybe first, then you put in the sand, maybe first, then you put in the sand, maybe you fit one rock. Okay. And ultimately, you fit one rock. Okay. And ultimately, you fit one rock. Okay. And ultimately, the lesson is you have to put in the big the lesson is you have to put in the big the lesson is you have to put in the big rocks first, then the gravel fits around rocks first, then the gravel fits around rocks first, then the gravel fits around that, and then you can fit in the sand. that, and then you can fit in the sand. that, and then you can fit in the sand. In the version that I tell, I make a I I In the version that I tell, I make a I I In the version that I tell, I make a I I make a modification to that and I say no make a modification to that and I say no make a modification to that and I say no matter what they do, there's still sand matter what they do, there's still sand matter what they do, there's still sand left over on the table. And I think the left over on the table. And I think the left over on the table. And I think the lesson is if you're looking at this in lesson is if you're looking at this in lesson is if you're looking at this in terms of commitments, right? The big terms of commitments, right? The big terms of commitments, right? The big rocks are those kind of life-changing rocks are those kind of life-changing rocks are those kind of life-changing yeses, the few things you need to yeses, the few things you need to yeses, the few things you need to protect on that golden road to get protect on that golden road to get protect on that golden road to get really where you want to be. Then the really where you want to be. Then the really where you want to be. Then the gravel to me are like the smaller but gravel to me are like the smaller but gravel to me are like the smaller but critical things you need to do. Got to critical things you need to do. Got to critical things you need to do. Got to file your taxes, got to do A, B, or C. file your taxes, got to do A, B, or C. file your taxes, got to do A, B, or C. And then the sand is all that extraneous And then the sand is all that extraneous And then the sand is all that extraneous stuff, mostly distractions. You can fit stuff, mostly distractions. You can fit stuff, mostly distractions. You can fit some of it, but if you schedule all that some of it, but if you schedule all that some of it, but if you schedule all that stuff first, it's going to crowd out the stuff first, it's going to crowd out the stuff first, it's going to crowd out the gravel or it's it's certainly at the gravel or it's it's certainly at the gravel or it's it's certainly at the very least going to crowd out all the very least going to crowd out all the very least going to crowd out all the big yeses, right? [snorts] And so in the big yeses, right? [snorts] And so in the big yeses, right? [snorts] And so in the in the sample chapters, I just walk in the sample chapters, I just walk in the sample chapters, I just walk people through how I do this past year people through how I do this past year people through how I do this past year review, right? and like how I actually review, right? and like how I actually review, right? and like how I actually pick the big yeses because the the book pick the big yeses because the the book pick the big yeses because the the book on no on no on no is equally a book on h to answer the is equally a book on h to answer the is equally a book on h to answer the question how the hell in a world of question how the hell in a world of question how the hell in a world of infinite options in a world of infinite options in a world of infinite options in a world of temptation around every corner do you temptation around every corner do you temptation around every corner do you pick a few things to focus on that are pick a few things to focus on that are pick a few things to focus on that are really high leverage how do you do it really high leverage how do you do it really high leverage how do you do it like that seems like a it's a simple like that seems like a it's a simple like that seems like a it's a simple question, but it's actually a very hard question, but it's actually a very hard question, but it's actually a very hard question to answer. Um, and so I would question to answer. Um, and so I would question to answer. Um, and so I would say that if you're having trouble saying say that if you're having trouble saying say that if you're having trouble saying no, no, no, underneath that probably is the fact underneath that probably is the fact underneath that probably is the fact that you don't have a you don't have big that you don't have a you don't have big that you don't have a you don't have big enough yeses that are worth defending. enough yeses that are worth defending. enough yeses that are worth defending. Uh, and then there's a lot that leads Uh, and then there's a lot that leads Uh, and then there's a lot that leads from that, right? There are ways how do from that, right? There are ways how do from that, right? There are ways how do you commit to a yes and ensure against you commit to a yes and ensure against you commit to a yes and ensure against reneggging or something else? Um, and reneggging or something else? Um, and reneggging or something else? Um, and there's also like this is intended to be there's also like this is intended to be there's also like this is intended to be hopefully like all of my books a very hopefully like all of my books a very hopefully like all of my books a very practical book, right? So, what happens practical book, right? So, what happens practical book, right? So, what happens when you screw up, right? There's an when you screw up, right? There's an when you screw up, right? There's an entire chapter on how to renegotiate entire chapter on how to renegotiate entire chapter on how to renegotiate commitments after you have already commitments after you have already commitments after you have already overcommitted because guess what? If you overcommitted because guess what? If you overcommitted because guess what? If you have that tendency, you're going to have that tendency, you're going to have that tendency, you're going to overcommit. You're going to look at your overcommit. You're going to look at your overcommit. You're going to look at your calendar for the next few weeks or month calendar for the next few weeks or month calendar for the next few weeks or month and say, "Good Lord, I'm screwed." and say, "Good Lord, I'm screwed." and say, "Good Lord, I'm screwed." And then what do you do? you're going to And then what do you do? you're going to And then what do you do? you're going to have to have some very potentially have to have some very potentially have to have some very potentially uncomfortable conversations. So, we're uncomfortable conversations. So, we're uncomfortable conversations. So, we're learning to renegotiate commitments is learning to renegotiate commitments is learning to renegotiate commitments is also an art form that is going to be also an art form that is going to be also an art form that is going to be included in it. [snorts] Uh but included in it. [snorts] Uh but included in it. [snorts] Uh but fundamentally, it's it's fundamentally, it's it's fundamentally, it's it's big yeses worth defending. big yeses worth defending. big yeses worth defending. Um I would say is another one. And sure, Um I would say is another one. And sure, Um I would say is another one. And sure, there are lots of things that you can do there are lots of things that you can do there are lots of things that you can do that you could do today. You don't have that you could do today. You don't have that you could do today. You don't have to look at any of these chapters, right? to look at any of these chapters, right? to look at any of these chapters, right? It's like I have not had social media on It's like I have not had social media on It's like I have not had social media on my phone in 3 years. my phone in 3 years. my phone in 3 years. >> Uh why? Because I feel like you are >> Uh why? Because I feel like you are >> Uh why? Because I feel like you are bringing a butter knife to a gunfight if bringing a butter knife to a gunfight if bringing a butter knife to a gunfight if you have these tools on your phone. Uh you have these tools on your phone. Uh you have these tools on your phone. Uh [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] and if it's too scary to unplug for and if it's too scary to unplug for and if it's too scary to unplug for a, you know, [snorts] 3 years, you don't a, you know, [snorts] 3 years, you don't a, you know, [snorts] 3 years, you don't have to commit to that. I didn't in the have to commit to that. I didn't in the have to commit to that. I didn't in the beginning. It's like do a one or two beginning. It's like do a one or two beginning. It's like do a one or two week social media fast at least on your week social media fast at least on your week social media fast at least on your phone. So I can still access social phone. So I can still access social phone. So I can still access social media if I need a hit of the heroin. I media if I need a hit of the heroin. I media if I need a hit of the heroin. I can still access social media through my can still access social media through my can still access social media through my laptop. But it adds enough friction that laptop. But it adds enough friction that laptop. But it adds enough friction that I'm not going to end up looking at I'm not going to end up looking at I'm not going to end up looking at Instagram while I'm on the toilet and Instagram while I'm on the toilet and Instagram while I'm on the toilet and wondering why I can't feel my legs 40 wondering why I can't feel my legs 40 wondering why I can't feel my legs 40 minutes later. Right? It's going to minutes later. Right? It's going to minutes later. Right? It's going to avoid that type of thing. or the avoid that type of thing. or the avoid that type of thing. or the compulsive sort of dopamine scratching compulsive sort of dopamine scratching compulsive sort of dopamine scratching whenever you have free 30 seconds whenever you have free 30 seconds whenever you have free 30 seconds jumping into social media. This is not jumping into social media. This is not jumping into social media. This is not good for your ability to focus. It's not good for your ability to focus. It's not good for your ability to focus. It's not good for your ability to single task. good for your ability to single task. good for your ability to single task. It's not good for your mental health It's not good for your mental health It's not good for your mental health when you always have that escape. when you always have that escape. when you always have that escape. It's it's I mean, look, I'm telling It's it's I mean, look, I'm telling It's it's I mean, look, I'm telling people things they probably agree with people things they probably agree with people things they probably agree with but perhaps haven't implemented, right? but perhaps haven't implemented, right? but perhaps haven't implemented, right? So, you can do something like that. You So, you can do something like that. You So, you can do something like that. You can use an app like Freedom. There's an can use an app like Freedom. There's an can use an app like Freedom. There's an app called Freedom that you can use to app called Freedom that you can use to app called Freedom that you can use to block certain things for certain periods block certain things for certain periods block certain things for certain periods of time. I mean there are these of time. I mean there are these of time. I mean there are these technical tools that you can use. Uh but technical tools that you can use. Uh but technical tools that you can use. Uh but at the very base at the very base at the very base you can't use more window dressing you can't use more window dressing you can't use more window dressing technical tricks to fix like fundamental technical tricks to fix like fundamental technical tricks to fix like fundamental problems with goal selection. Big yes is problems with goal selection. Big yes is problems with goal selection. Big yes is worth defending worth defending worth defending and core beliefs. Right? If I say no to and core beliefs. Right? If I say no to and core beliefs. Right? If I say no to this person, they're something bad is this person, they're something bad is this person, they're something bad is going to happen going to happen going to happen and they're not going to like me. and they're not going to like me. and they're not going to like me. They'll stop inviting me to things like They'll stop inviting me to things like They'll stop inviting me to things like if you have these and that is going to if you have these and that is going to if you have these and that is going to what, right? You have to ask and then what, right? You have to ask and then what, right? You have to ask and then what? And then what? Right? I'm going to what? And then what? Right? I'm going to what? And then what? Right? I'm going to end up alone. Okay. Well, these are end up alone. Okay. Well, these are end up alone. Okay. Well, these are these are sort of Rubicons you need to these are sort of Rubicons you need to these are sort of Rubicons you need to get comfortable crossing in the sense get comfortable crossing in the sense get comfortable crossing in the sense that my experience is this is also that my experience is this is also that my experience is this is also Neil's experience. He had tons of fears Neil's experience. He had tons of fears Neil's experience. He had tons of fears as did I in the beginning stages. It's as did I in the beginning stages. It's as did I in the beginning stages. It's like when you start to stand up for the like when you start to stand up for the like when you start to stand up for the things that are important in your life. things that are important in your life. things that are important in your life. Uh I think this is a Dr. Seuss quote, Uh I think this is a Dr. Seuss quote, Uh I think this is a Dr. Seuss quote, but it's like the people who mind don't but it's like the people who mind don't but it's like the people who mind don't matter and the people who matter don't matter and the people who matter don't matter and the people who matter don't mind. Like you actually do a lot of mind. Like you actually do a lot of mind. Like you actually do a lot of pruning in your life that you should do pruning in your life that you should do pruning in your life that you should do anyway. And it's a it's a forcing anyway. And it's a it's a forcing anyway. And it's a it's a forcing function for that. function for that. function for that. >> That's so interesting. It really is >> That's so interesting. It really is >> That's so interesting. It really is about courage in the end. Um about courage in the end. Um about courage in the end. Um >> it is. And you can train that. You can >> it is. And you can train that. You can >> it is. And you can train that. You can train that. It's not something you are train that. It's not something you are train that. It's not something you are born with or without. Like that is born with or without. Like that is born with or without. Like that is something through actually understanding something through actually understanding something through actually understanding what your fears represent and like what your fears represent and like what your fears represent and like what's underneath them. It could be from what's underneath them. It could be from what's underneath them. It could be from childhood. It doesn't necessarily have childhood. It doesn't necessarily have childhood. It doesn't necessarily have to be. But when you start to actually to be. But when you start to actually to be. But when you start to actually examine them, there's an exercise people examine them, there's an exercise people examine them, there's an exercise people could do today also they can find. I did could do today also they can find. I did could do today also they can find. I did a TED talk on this called fear setting. a TED talk on this called fear setting. a TED talk on this called fear setting. You start to do fear setting around You start to do fear setting around You start to do fear setting around these fears. You defang them. And guess these fears. You defang them. And guess these fears. You defang them. And guess what? Suddenly you have this thing that what? Suddenly you have this thing that what? Suddenly you have this thing that others might call courage. But what it others might call courage. But what it others might call courage. But what it is is it's clarity. is is it's clarity. is is it's clarity. It's clarity around the actual downside It's clarity around the actual downside It's clarity around the actual downside which is limited versus the upside which is limited versus the upside which is limited versus the upside of protecting these big yeses over a of protecting these big yeses over a of protecting these big yeses over a year or two or three. And I will say, year or two or three. And I will say, year or two or three. And I will say, not to continue to beat this dead horse, not to continue to beat this dead horse, not to continue to beat this dead horse, but with all of the noise that is here, but with all of the noise that is here, but with all of the noise that is here, but that is coming with AI, it's going but that is coming with AI, it's going but that is coming with AI, it's going to be 10, 100, a thousand times worse to be 10, 100, a thousand times worse to be 10, 100, a thousand times worse within 2 years. within 2 years. within 2 years. If you can single task on important If you can single task on important If you can single task on important things for not even four hours a day, things for not even four hours a day, things for not even four hours a day, two hours a day without interruption, two hours a day without interruption, two hours a day without interruption, you are going to be from the perspective you are going to be from the perspective you are going to be from the perspective of let's just say an attention economy of let's just say an attention economy of let's just say an attention economy in the top 1% of performers. in the top 1% of performers. in the top 1% of performers. >> It's it's uh it's never been easier and >> It's it's uh it's never been easier and >> It's it's uh it's never been easier and it's never been harder in a way. it's never been harder in a way. it's never been harder in a way. >> I'm going to lose you in 9 minutes. So, >> I'm going to lose you in 9 minutes. So, >> I'm going to lose you in 9 minutes. So, I do want to make sure I quickly ask you I do want to make sure I quickly ask you I do want to make sure I quickly ask you about Coyote uh another of your about Coyote uh another of your about Coyote uh another of your projects. Uh this is a game that you've projects. Uh this is a game that you've projects. Uh this is a game that you've uh um uh designed. Can you what is it uh um uh designed. Can you what is it uh um uh designed. Can you what is it and why? and why? and why? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Coyote >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Coyote >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Coyote is a is a it's a tiny little card game is a is a it's a tiny little card game is a is a it's a tiny little card game that I designed with um some of my that I designed with um some of my that I designed with um some of my friends at Exploding Kittens, which friends at Exploding Kittens, which friends at Exploding Kittens, which people might recognize. They have a lot people might recognize. They have a lot people might recognize. They have a lot of very very popular games. And uh it's of very very popular games. And uh it's of very very popular games. And uh it's a it's a fun family game. It's it's a it's a fun family game. It's it's a it's a fun family game. It's it's something like if you could imagine something like if you could imagine something like if you could imagine charades meets hot potato meets uh brain charades meets hot potato meets uh brain charades meets hot potato meets uh brain teaser. Something that I I hope uh at teaser. Something that I I hope uh at teaser. Something that I I hope uh at some point I'd actually like to do a some point I'd actually like to do a some point I'd actually like to do a clinical study on this but you know clinical study on this but you know clinical study on this but you know makes you just a little bit smarter and makes you just a little bit smarter and makes you just a little bit smarter and the [snorts] people who play uh it is it the [snorts] people who play uh it is it the [snorts] people who play uh it is it is a um casual card game. You can learn is a um casual card game. You can learn is a um casual card game. You can learn a few minutes. Each game lasts about 10 a few minutes. Each game lasts about 10 a few minutes. Each game lasts about 10 minutes. And the reason I created it, I minutes. And the reason I created it, I minutes. And the reason I created it, I always wanted to make a game number one always wanted to make a game number one always wanted to make a game number one and and and I ch this is actually a good I ch this is actually a good I ch this is actually a good illustration of some of the stuff that illustration of some of the stuff that illustration of some of the stuff that is in the book that'll come out in you is in the book that'll come out in you is in the book that'll come out in you know [clears throat] 100 years uh but know [clears throat] 100 years uh but know [clears throat] 100 years uh but people can apply it today which is uh I people can apply it today which is uh I people can apply it today which is uh I choose projects based on choose projects based on choose projects based on which projects will allow me to win even which projects will allow me to win even which projects will allow me to win even if they fail. What does that mean? if they fail. What does that mean? if they fail. What does that mean? Uh Uh Uh I assume that any project could fail for I assume that any project could fail for I assume that any project could fail for reasons totally outside of my control. reasons totally outside of my control. reasons totally outside of my control. It's happened before. It'll happen It's happened before. It'll happen It's happened before. It'll happen again. Happens to people every day. And again. Happens to people every day. And again. Happens to people every day. And so how am I then choosing things to so how am I then choosing things to so how am I then choosing things to commit to? Well, generally I'm, you commit to? Well, generally I'm, you commit to? Well, generally I'm, you know, I'm doing all these twoe know, I'm doing all these twoe know, I'm doing all these twoe experiments on various things like the experiments on various things like the experiments on various things like the diet and this that and the other thing. diet and this that and the other thing. diet and this that and the other thing. With projects, it's kind of like a With projects, it's kind of like a With projects, it's kind of like a six-month commitment, right? I'm looking six-month commitment, right? I'm looking six-month commitment, right? I'm looking at like a 6 to 12 month project where I at like a 6 to 12 month project where I at like a 6 to 12 month project where I really go all in. By the way, that makes really go all in. By the way, that makes really go all in. By the way, that makes it easier to say no to things when it easier to say no to things when it easier to say no to things when you're doing a sprint as opposed to a you're doing a sprint as opposed to a you're doing a sprint as opposed to a very slow walking marathon. So, I'm very slow walking marathon. So, I'm very slow walking marathon. So, I'm committing to something that I think committing to something that I think committing to something that I think will be 6 to 12 months. And I am will be 6 to 12 months. And I am will be 6 to 12 months. And I am optimizing for optimizing for optimizing for what I will learn, right? The density of what I will learn, right? The density of what I will learn, right? The density of learning learning learning and also the relationships that I'll and also the relationships that I'll and also the relationships that I'll deepen or develop. So it could be with deepen or develop. So it could be with deepen or develop. So it could be with new people, could be with people I new people, could be with people I new people, could be with people I already know with the belief that those already know with the belief that those already know with the belief that those relationships and those skills or relationships and those skills or relationships and those skills or knowledge will transcend that project. knowledge will transcend that project. knowledge will transcend that project. Even if the public hates it, even if in Even if the public hates it, even if in Even if the public hates it, even if in my case, for instance, China tariffs for my case, for instance, China tariffs for my case, for instance, China tariffs for a nine a game that sold for $9 or $10 a nine a game that sold for $9 or $10 a nine a game that sold for $9 or $10 coming from China, that just kills the coming from China, that just kills the coming from China, that just kills the economics, right? So, not that this was economics, right? So, not that this was economics, right? So, not that this was ever a money-making thing for me, but ever a money-making thing for me, but ever a money-making thing for me, but it's like there are things that came up it's like there are things that came up it's like there are things that came up that made this suddenly much harder from that made this suddenly much harder from that made this suddenly much harder from a kind of business perspective. And a kind of business perspective. And a kind of business perspective. And thank God I checked those other boxes, thank God I checked those other boxes, thank God I checked those other boxes, right? Because uh fortunately, it's got right? Because uh fortunately, it's got right? Because uh fortunately, it's got like 9.7 or 9.8 stars on Amazon and it's like 9.7 or 9.8 stars on Amazon and it's like 9.7 or 9.8 stars on Amazon and it's available everywhere and it's doing available everywhere and it's doing available everywhere and it's doing really well. But what I really care really well. But what I really care really well. But what I really care about is like Alan Lee, who's the about is like Alan Lee, who's the about is like Alan Lee, who's the co-founder and CEO of Exploding Kittens, co-founder and CEO of Exploding Kittens, co-founder and CEO of Exploding Kittens, has become a super close friend. He was has become a super close friend. He was has become a super close friend. He was a good friend beforehand. We're even a good friend beforehand. We're even a good friend beforehand. We're even closer now. This guy's one of the most closer now. This guy's one of the most closer now. This guy's one of the most amazing polymaths I've ever met in my amazing polymaths I've ever met in my amazing polymaths I've ever met in my life. Awesome, hilarious guy. And I have life. Awesome, hilarious guy. And I have life. Awesome, hilarious guy. And I have learned so much about mass retail, you learned so much about mass retail, you learned so much about mass retail, you know, the Walmarts and Targets and so know, the Walmarts and Targets and so know, the Walmarts and Targets and so on. I've learned so much about how you on. I've learned so much about how you on. I've learned so much about how you have to play the politics and the Game have to play the politics and the Game have to play the politics and the Game of Thrones with that. I've learned about of Thrones with that. I've learned about of Thrones with that. I've learned about overseas manufacturing. I've learned overseas manufacturing. I've learned overseas manufacturing. I've learned about, you name it, right? I've learned about, you name it, right? I've learned about, you name it, right? I've learned so much. And those are the reasons for so much. And those are the reasons for so much. And those are the reasons for me picking this. And if you look at, for me picking this. And if you look at, for me picking this. And if you look at, for instance, there's a blog post people can instance, there's a blog post people can instance, there's a blog post people can find for free. angel investing like find for free. angel investing like find for free. angel investing like investing in early stage companies which investing in early stage companies which investing in early stage companies which is like 90% of my net worth which I is like 90% of my net worth which I is like 90% of my net worth which I started well before I could quote started well before I could quote started well before I could quote unquote afford it. uh there's a blog unquote afford it. uh there's a blog unquote afford it. uh there's a blog post called uh I think it's creating a post called uh I think it's creating a post called uh I think it's creating a real world MBA which explains kind of real world MBA which explains kind of real world MBA which explains kind of how I approached it which was the same how I approached it which was the same how I approached it which was the same way I approached this learning and way I approached this learning and way I approached this learning and relationships that I think will relationships that I think will relationships that I think will transcend that project and snowball over transcend that project and snowball over transcend that project and snowball over time so that it's very hard to lose long time so that it's very hard to lose long time so that it's very hard to lose long term but the but coming back to the game term but the but coming back to the game term but the but coming back to the game itself I mean look if if you've got kids itself I mean look if if you've got kids itself I mean look if if you've got kids in between the ages of let's say most in between the ages of let's say most in between the ages of let's say most kids, it says 10 on the box, but really kids, it says 10 on the box, but really kids, it says 10 on the box, but really it's kind of like age eight if your kids it's kind of like age eight if your kids it's kind of like age eight if your kids are pretty smart to like age 15. This is are pretty smart to like age 15. This is are pretty smart to like age 15. This is kind of a no-brainer. Like the game kind of a no-brainer. Like the game kind of a no-brainer. Like the game works really, really well. Adults also works really, really well. Adults also works really, really well. Adults also really like it. So, it's not just for really like it. So, it's not just for really like it. So, it's not just for kids, but if you've got some kids around kids, but if you've got some kids around kids, but if you've got some kids around or adults who don't care being a little or adults who don't care being a little or adults who don't care being a little goofy, then um I think it's a really goofy, then um I think it's a really goofy, then um I think it's a really simple, fun game that hopefully does simple, fun game that hopefully does simple, fun game that hopefully does something cognitive for folks as well. something cognitive for folks as well. something cognitive for folks as well. That was kind of the goal. That was kind of the goal. That was kind of the goal. and Coyote. You can just Yeah. Coyote and Coyote. You can just Yeah. Coyote and Coyote. You can just Yeah. Coyote game. You can find it everywhere. game. You can find it everywhere. game. You can find it everywhere. >> It is always an enormous pleasure to >> It is always an enormous pleasure to >> It is always an enormous pleasure to talk to you, Tim. And I know you say no talk to you, Tim. And I know you say no talk to you, Tim. And I know you say no to most [ __ ] so thank you. Thank you to most [ __ ] so thank you. Thank you to most [ __ ] so thank you. Thank you for saying yes to this. for saying yes to this. for saying yes to this. >> Yeah, I love what you do, man. I love >> Yeah, I love what you do, man. I love >> Yeah, I love what you do, man. I love what you do. Uh, one of my very close what you do. Uh, one of my very close what you do. Uh, one of my very close friends who's a professor at a very friends who's a professor at a very friends who's a professor at a very wellrespected university had pains in wellrespected university had pains in wellrespected university had pains in his body. this just horrible pervasive his body. this just horrible pervasive his body. this just horrible pervasive pain in joints in his body for years and pain in joints in his body for years and pain in joints in his body for years and years. Started using 10% Happier years. Started using 10% Happier years. Started using 10% Happier meditating every day and it was like meditating every day and it was like meditating every day and it was like boom within 4 weeks pains went away. boom within 4 weeks pains went away. boom within 4 weeks pains went away. Crazy. I have some theories on that. I Crazy. I have some theories on that. I Crazy. I have some theories on that. I think it's actually might be think it's actually might be think it's actually might be synchronized breathing and and vag nerve synchronized breathing and and vag nerve synchronized breathing and and vag nerve stimulation, but that's a separate stimulation, but that's a separate stimulation, but that's a separate conversation. Um, and uh, I just think conversation. Um, and uh, I just think conversation. Um, and uh, I just think you put a lot of uh, you're very you put a lot of uh, you're very you put a lot of uh, you're very thoughtful and you do a lot of good in thoughtful and you do a lot of good in thoughtful and you do a lot of good in the world. So, it's always and I just the world. So, it's always and I just the world. So, it's always and I just enjoy hanging out. So, it's always a a enjoy hanging out. So, it's always a a enjoy hanging out. So, it's always a a pleasure to connect