How to Pick the Right Workout: The Most Important Question to Ask Before You Start | Mind Pump 2908

Key Takeaway

The most effective workout isn't the one that burns the most calories or builds muscle fastest—it's the one you'll actually do consistently. Focus on three factors: genuine enjoyment (ask yourself: would I do this even without results?), effectiveness relative to time invested (strength training offers the highest ROI at just 1-2 days per week), and appropriateness for your life long-term. Start with one full-body strength session weekly, 8,000 daily steps, and one play activity. This sustainable approach beats any intensive program you'll quit in weeks.

Episode Overview

The hosts discuss how to choose the right workout routine by focusing on enjoyment, effectiveness relative to time investment, and long-term sustainability. They emphasize that strength training provides the best return on investment for most fitness goals, requiring only 1-2 sessions per week to see significant results.

Full Transcript

Transcript of How to Pick the Right Workout: The Most Important Question to Ask Before You Start | Mind Pump 2908 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

All right, you're thinking about working out. You want to get in shape. You just don't know what the right workout is for you. What should it be? What should it look like? How often? We're going to talk about that right now, how we can help you pick the right workout for your goals. goals. goals. Where you going with this? Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Where you going with this? Well, it's just uh it's a question people often ask. What's the right way to work out?

it's such a vague question. I'm trying to figure out where you're going with it. Well, the question is, Adam, somebody comes up to you and says, "How do I know what the like how do I pick the right workout?" propose that right now and Justin and I have nothing to say cuz we know the very first thing we're going to say back to you is, "Well, that depends." Well, what is is is Well, what is it that you know, what is it What are your goals?

What do you do currently right now? How long you've been working out for? Exactly. Here's the first thing and I and I'm I love you guys' opinion on this. I'm sure you guys will agree, but I think the first thing people need to consider consider consider when picking a workout is uh do you enjoy it? enjoy it? enjoy it? Now, that sounds stupid to someone cuz someone's like, "I just want to get these results. I just want to burn body fat. I just want to whatever." But, the truth is uh the thing you enjoy doing, again, so long as it's appropriate, right?

appropriate, right? appropriate, right? Yeah, I was just going to say that that that there's a bit of that's a you got to be careful when you say that because I feel like there's a lot of people who uh uh find enjoyment in suffering. Uh and punishing themselves. Uh find enjoyment playing a playing a sport even though that doesn't align with their goal. Like so, I don't like to lead off with this. I do think that it's important to note that you if this person's going to be consistent long-term, that you have to learn to love or enjoy the thing that you're doing.

you're doing. you're doing. But, leading off with this in this conversation to me sets a lot of people up for failure because a lot of people have a terrible relationship, first of all, with exercise. They don't even know what they like or don't like or they've never experienced what a a good healthy relationship or balance with exercise looks like. Or two, the modality that they choose because they quote-unquote love it doesn't align with the goal and the outcome. the outcome. the outcome. Well, this again speaks more to like having a a meeting with a with a coach to kind of identify these things, right?

Cuz I don't to your point, I don't I don't necessarily think people um you know, have the right idea of what would be best in like prescriptive-wise, like I think that uh yeah, it could be a bit misleading like what they uh emotionally want to do or like you know, it might not actually be the most beneficial for them. Well, that's that's perfect. What you guys are going is perfect. That's That's why this is a good conversation cuz you're 100% right. Uh how many times do people lie to themselves about what they enjoy doing?

enjoy doing? enjoy doing? Um you know, people are like, "Oh, I love running every single day." Uh and then you try a different modality to get better results and suddenly they're like, "I actually didn't like running so much." I guess a good way to answer it cuz it's there's nuance to it. We're going to get to that, but one way to answer this is like, "Would you do this if you got no results from it?" Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Would you do this form of activity if all you got from it was you did that you just did that activity?

Like that's a really good way to know whether or not you enjoy it. I mean and that's a great way to position that when you get somebody who says something like that, right? Like or they tell you something like, "Hey, I really want to build this butt or I want to look this way, um but I love running marathons." marathons." marathons." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you ask them like, "Well, if running marathons never got you that body or never got you that butt, would you still do it?" And if they say, "Yes, I love it." Okay, well, then then we got to find a way to include We got to find a way to include some some runs in there to to let you enjoy that cuz I think that's important to overall health.

Exactly. It's like the question of like, "What would you do uh for a living if you did if you had all the money in the world?" And what tends to come out is a thing that someone would enjoy. Right, right. But the answer you you you you typically get when I say that and I position it like that, I almost always get the "Well, my friend who runs all the time, she's got this great ass and she they will always point to that or they were "Well, I was in the best shape of my life when I used to run, you know, two or three marathons a year and so I just want to get back to that." And so so that you you you're you're you also are positioned with this this other challenge.

challenge. challenge. what comes you're 100% right cuz what I said was a super oversimplification. Like would you enjoy doing this if it gave you no results? Super oversimplification because in real life what contributes to whether or not you like what you do is A or one, I enjoy doing it because I just enjoy doing it. But then it's also what it does for me which contributes to my enjoyment, right? Like you can fall in love with it an activity because of how it makes you feel and because of how it improves the quality of your life.

So you can't necessarily separate the two. 100% Yeah, and as a coach I consider these like hot buttons. So if if somebody's like describes in detail like, you know, I really love running. I've always loved, you know, so I know that like that form of movement is enjoyable for them and I can kind of like start catering, prescribing something that like would actually benefit them cuz I know they're going to keep showing up. No, I had a woman this reminds me of a client I had years ago.

This woman that I trained, she was in her at the time I think late 40s. Um and she wanted to hire me because she started to get kind of nagging aches and pains from her favorite form of exercise or activity which was dancing. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So she did salsa dancing and I think she did like four days a week. She was really good at it. She did it for years. It kept her pretty darn fit and she came to me because she started getting kind of these nagging issues and so she really had no interest in strength training aside from the fact that she heard that strength training could prevent some of these aches and pains.

And so what I did is we applied strength training as a way to allow her to continue to do the thing that she loved so much. And this is why this is such an important question because if you really enjoy swimming or you really enjoy cycling or you really enjoy basketball or hiking and it's just something you really love to do just for the sake of doing it, other modalities of exercise can be used and probably should be used to help to help to help or to allow you to continue That's right.

To help you continue to do the thing but it's so important everybody and this is a very complex question. It sounds very simple and I over simplified it earlier. it earlier. it earlier. But it's such an important question because if the thing that you're doing for exercise is something that you hate, that you despise and I know people listening know exactly what I'm talking about. We've all gone through that thing where we do that thing cuz we think it's good for us but we wake up in the morning like I got to go do that workout.

I hate it. If you always hate it, you're not going to do it. It's just not going to work. It's not going to be consistent. Nobody does something that they hate every single day for years and years and years unless they're absolutely forced. So enjoying it is is a is a bit more complex and so we'll get to to some of that stuff but it has to be something that you enjoy or you can learn to enjoy. Otherwise this isn't going to happen. I I think it's such an important question so much so that whatever you answer, you should even question your own beliefs.

own beliefs. own beliefs. Totally. Totally. Totally. Because I think that at least in my experience, experience, experience, more than half the people that told me that this is what they love to do or believe that this is what they should do or wanted to do to get whatever said result, were wrong. We're wrong about what they what they liked. They they they thought that because they had this relationship with it. Whether it was a a bad one or abusive, where it was a punishment thing and they felt cathartic when they when they beat themselves up in the workout and therefore they told themselves they love to do it or two, they identified with a way their body looked at one point in their lives while they were also doing said modality.

Um or they've got a friend who they admire and look up to and that's how they train. And so there's like I mean I can't tell you how many times many times many times someone has told me this is what I enjoy to do or I love to do that was wrong. Yeah, and you know what's important about about this Adam is cuz someone listening is probably I guarantee there's people who are like, I don't like anything. like anything. like anything. I don't like any form of physical activity or exercise.

So what do I do now? And I'm going to tell you right now what you do cuz this is what I did as a coach and a trainer. You figure this out by the way as a coach when you train people for a long enough period of time, you start to realize that the most important thing I can do and I got to train people properly. I got to make sure they exercise the right way, don't hurt themselves, you know, do all the right stuff. But the most important thing I could do as a coach is make this an enjoyable session every time you show up.

And so there are ways to do this. What does this look like? Well, let's say you're like, look, I'm going to walk every day. I'm going to make sure I get, you know, 12,000 steps a day. That's the form of exercise I'm going to start with. I hate doing it. I hate going outside and walking for that that long. I hate doing it. How can I make this something I enjoy? I'm going to go with my friend. And my friend is also committed to this and you know, we have the best conversations and I get to see my friend and hang out with them.

So that's what I'm going to do. Or I'm going to listen to a book while I do it. Or I'm going to go to this gym that has this great community and the thing I actually look forward to and the reason why I enjoy it is the people that are there. So there are ways to make your help yourself enjoy something. And there also are ways to help you to make yourself hate something. Like here's a great way to make you hate something, okay? That you do it so hard that each time you regret that you actually did that workout where you leave and you feel like you're dying.

This is a great way to hate working out. And I know sometimes people love that. You keep doing that long enough and you're going to hate it. I promise you. If every workout feels like you survived, at some point you're going to wake up and be like, I really don't want to do do And that's a fast track to a bad relationship with exercise. Let me Let me address the the common one that you just said because it is common that you would get a client that would say something like I don't like anything.

I don't like any of that. Um Um Um it's more often if not always the person who It's like uh they've had five jobs that they've tried and none of them paid them. They went to work for 6 months at this new job and they got no check and they got no paid and they hated it so they went to the next job. Same thing. And then so their relationship with that work or all the all those modalities is horrible because the ROI was terrible. That's right.

That's right. That's right. Now Now Now That's 100%. That's 100%. That's 100%. if I can show you a way to get And by the way, ROI isn't always mirror and and scale and body fat percentage to the point where you're going. If I can show you how just adding a walk for 10 minutes after your meals all of a sudden makes your digestion better and you sleep better which then makes your mood better. If I can connect those dots for you, a 10-minute walk Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I can I can start to enjoy that cuz I I can I can connect the ROI and then I have something to build on. And then if I can show you, hey, if we just did five sets of squats in a week Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that's it, nothing else and I and I show you strength gains cuz I balance that out with proper nutrition down. down. down. Yeah. Pain goes down, strength goes up and you start to build a little bit of a butt or something and that's all you did was five sets of squats all week and nothing else and your 10-minute If I can And then so you start getting this connection to a return on your investment that you go, I kind of do like this.

like this. like this. There's also this other point too, Adam, because you brought up the jobs thing. It's really interesting. Um you see this with athletes. with athletes. with athletes. Athletes who love the sport that they play, absolutely genuinely love it, who get to the professional level there's a psychological phenomenon where many of them stop start not loving what they did because now it's almost it's a job. yeah. yeah. yeah. It's [snorts] a job. And so, I know people have heard this before, and I think this is again an oversimplification, but there's truth in it, which is there's a difference between I have to work out and I get to work out.

And [snorts] so, that's an attitude. I have to go do this thing. Well, if you keep going at it with that I have to, where you feel like you're forced, you're moving towards a relationship where you're going to eventually quit it. Versus I get to go do this thing, my body moves, I get to go and express itself in a different way. Just like a job. Oh, I have to work cuz I got to pay these bills versus man, I get to go to work. It's a I get to go to work.

It's a different mentality completely. But, to to point to go kind of the direction you are, are, are, here's part of what we're talking about, which is how effective is this method for your goal? And now, how do you determine effectiveness? Here's the Here's the way you determine it. It's not how great how fast it gets you to your goals. It's not that. It's how much time do you invest versus how much you get out? Yes, right. That's effectiveness, because I can give you a workout that gives you great results that requires, you know, 40 hours a week of investment, and I don't care how great the results are, you're not going to do it.

You're not going to work out 40 hours a week. But, if I can show you a form of exercise where you can invest very little time in comparison to the results that you get, a lot of people, this is something that people really like, and this contributes a lot to the fact that they enjoy it. One form of exercise does this for a lot of different goals, and that's strength training. What's unique about strength training? Yes, it builds muscle, it builds strength, but it's unique in the sense that you don't need a lot of it to get really good results.

When you're training with other modalities, you tend to need to invest a lot more time to get something back from it. Like, if I'm just trying to burn calories calories calories or build endurance, I got to do a lot to really build lots of endurance. Strength training, average person does one day a week of strength training, you're going to see significant strength gains for a while. while. while. I'll back it off even more, like I said. All if all somebody did, if you met somebody somebody somebody once a week who once a week did five sets of squats and nothing else, but they never missed.

Once a week they always do five sets of squats. Over years, how good that person would get at that at that movement and the the benefits that come from knowing how to do a proper good squat and the strength gains over the time and what that would do to your body, to your mobility, to your energy, to your metabolism. I mean, there there's such a huge ROI on that. I have a guy that I'm training right now, good friend of mine, very smart guy, highly educated, works in the medical field.

He's always been a cyclist, he's always been a runner. He's always tried to stay fit and I started training him, training him, training him, you know, we start working out once a week together. And I'm explaining to him how exercise really works, how it we send this signal, we're looking for adaptation. You're already an ER doc, you've got lot lots of stress, your sleep is crap half the time. So, we can't apply too much stress. So, I'm telling him all this stuff. Logically, he gets it.

He's a smart guy. And I can communicate it very well, right? So, I've been doing this for a long time. So, he gets it, but as we're training, you could tell he's like, wait, maybe I should go harder. Like, are you sure I shouldn't go hard? So, should I do more on my off days? And I'm like, listen, if you're getting stronger in here, which you are, it's working. And so, I've been working with this guy now for eight weeks and he come and he comes in now and he's like, you know what?

I heard you, I believed you intellectually, but I didn't feel the belief cuz I didn't experience it. He goes, this is the craziest thing. He goes, I look I've never looked forward to working out. I look forward to it now cuz I feel good. I don't feel like I got the crap beat out of me. I'm getting stronger. It almost feels like I'm doing nothing and my body's responding. Now, it feels like nothing cuz in comparison to how he used to train himself, it was like he he would slam himself into the ground.

Now, he's training appropriately, he's getting a huge ROI for the investment that he's putting in. And guess what's happening with the his relationship with it? He loves it. He says that our sessions once a week, and this is a very busy guy, is the highlight of his week. Tell me what that's doing to his relationship with fitness. And so, a big factor that you need to consider with your consistency, with your workout, picking the right workout, is how effective is this for the goal that I'm after?

And if your goal is fat loss, or muscle gain, or strength, or changing how you look, or mobility, mobility, mobility, one form of exercise gives you the most ROI, and that's strength training. And for most people, it looks like once a week, or twice a week. That's it. And that's just something to consider. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and I want people to understand that because that plays a big role. And then lastly, you got to you also got to consider this, what is the most appropriate for me in my life?

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. It's got to be appropriate for me in my life. life. life. Long-term, too. Not just uh in this sprint six-month window until the wedding, or this three-month summer, or this moment of time. It's what is most appropriate that I could do this forever. forever. forever. That's right. That's right. That's right. Like that this is something I can build into my life. It'll be a part of my life forever. Back to your point of one to two times a week is because it's realistic that no matter where where what time of your life uh you are at, or what phase of your life you're in, it that's an appropriate commitment for most people, which is why you want to start there.

And we can always build up as you fall in love with this, and you tell me this is the highlight of my week. on is the enjoyment, back to the beginning. It's really And that's what is such an individual experience, and something that we can't just be like, "Oh, here's the formula. Here's the exact workout that's probably best for the general population." It really isn't about that. It's about really being honest with yourself, and having that kind of inventory uh to where, you know, you you understand your own behaviors, and you can like really assess, like is this too much?

Is this something I can just get up and do right now, and then just, you know, work on your mentality towards it. towards it. towards it. And and understand that this is a relationship and going to the gym once or twice, going on one or two dates is not going to build a marriage, okay? It's going to a healthy marriage you it takes time. takes time. takes time. That's right. That's right. That's right. You have to work on this and so you might be listening to this and you might be the person who says like I don't like any more guys I hate it and then you hear this advice and then you go to the gym one time like we say I still hate it.

And you're like I still hate it. It's like cool you went on one date, you know what I'm saying? Like court this for a while and take it slow and learn about it and start to connect the dots and then start to change your language and as and then over time that will that shift will happen. To expect that to happen in one day that all of a sudden you go from the person who said I hate this to oh I get it now that oh this is all I had to do now I love it.

It's like no you got to it takes time to build that relationship. take time and again this is kind of like we're we're we're speaking up here, right? We're like a thousand foot view, we're looking down, we're kind of giving this general advice. People I'm sure like give me some specifics. What does this look like? What does What would this look like for most people? So I'm going to give some general kind of what it would look like for most people. Not everybody but for most people what this would probably look like is this.

This is what this is what a lifestyle of I enjoy doing it, that it's effective for what I'm looking for what most people are looking for is overall health and fitness and improvement in quality of life and that it's appropriate for people and their life. So this is I'm going to speak very generally. This is probably what it's going to look like. One or two days a week of strength training, okay? Full body. So that's what it's going to look like. You're going to walk daily to the tune of about 8,000 steps a day and once a week you play something.

Once a week you think to yourself what's a fun physical thing I can go do once a week right now. And I don't care what it is. I don't care if you go to the park and you throw the frisbee. I don't care if you go on a hike with your wife. I don't care if you go swim in a lake. But that play part once a week I think is so important for people. people. people. And and generally what it's going to look like. And if you did that, if everybody listening did that consistently over years and years and years, everybody would look fit and healthy and they'd be very satisfied with the results.

And what happens most times is within months, uh, months, uh, months, uh, that person gives the feedback that your buddy gave back, which is this becomes the highlight, I now love it, I now like it, and then you can start to slowly build upon that. You know, it's so funny, too, cuz uh, you know, we've done this podcast now for a long time. I've been speaking of fitness forever, but I stopped training people for a long time. And what you don't realize, uh, and I think I don't remember one of you guys communicated this to me a while ago, is you start to forget certain things because you're not training people.

I'm just just just uh, you know, communicating this. Sure. Sure. Sure. And uh, it's all coming back to me. And as I'm training my friend, I'm remembering to really take mental note of the weight that he's lifting because I know what's going to happen. I know he's going to come to me in 4 weeks and be like, like, like, We're not working hard Yeah, I feel like we're not working out hard enough. hard enough. hard enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that actually happened. He's like, I feel like we're not working out hard enough.

I'm like, do you know what you started with on bench press, you know, 5 weeks ago? And I show him the weight. I'm like, and look what you're lifting now. He's like, That's 40 lb heavier. It's easier. It's easier. It's easier. I added 40 lb. I'm like, yeah, dude, you added 40 lb to your bench press from I know. I know. I know. Isn't that crazy? Because he forgot they forget. They forget what it was just like like like think they just hit a wall that I'm not still progressing?

still progressing? still progressing? then I And then I waited for the second thing. It's just, God, it's so predictable. I waited for the second thing. He said, I think just happened. He told me, he's like, man, you know, Saturday I'll see you. I want you to train me really hard. I'm like, all right, dude, I'm going to I'll train you hard, but only if you're rested. You know, we're having that conversation. And I'm like, you know what's going to happen? At some point he's going to come in in in and he's going to tell me, dude, a friend ran into me and told me I looked like I like I like I And sure enough, he comes in.

He's like, dude, my buddy came up to me and hadn't seen him for like a few months. He's like, bro, what have you been doing? You look like He's like, so I think this is what I Yeah, it's just working, bro. It's so much fun. And you guys are working out once a week. Is he Is he asking you any stuff nutritionally, too, or is he just Everything, cuz he's a he's a really One of my favorite types of people to train are like people who who are either medical field or in that kind of in that kind of field who like to ask lots of questions cuz it like gets me Yeah, yeah, of course.

going. going. going. Scratch that itch for you. Yeah, dude. We have these really, really great conver- And of course, he's an ER doc, so I ask him, you know, about work all the time. He comes back, tells me the craziest stories. I'm like, "Oh my god, that's crazy, dude." dude." dude." Cars find their way in. Bro, I don't know how they stay calm during half the stuff. He's He was telling me I'm not going to go into details, but people come in just He's And he's got to be calm, like, and just Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. make sure this person doesn't die. I'm like, "Dude, I can't imagine." I I did an ER nurse for a for a long time, and I had to stop asking her stories cuz it would give me anxiety at night. I'm like, "I don't know how you come home from a night or a day like that and like They have to offload it, so they're not holding onto it. I know I had to go through that too. Dude, my sister-in-law's a nurse, and she works in the ER, but she works in the delivery, right?

And she was She told me a story that they pushed the baby back. She said I had to push the baby back inside cuz the way the baby was coming out. Oh, yeah, to turn. I'm like, "Oh my god, imagine that you're the mom." And you're like, "You're pushing so hard. You're like, it's almost out. We got to push the baby back in." back in." back in." We're going to try again. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. A LITTLE BIT OF A TWIST. We also have a brand new program, MAPS Upper/Lower.

It's a 4-day muscle-building split. We have a men's and women's version. It's 40% off right now. Go to mapsupperlower.com, use the code launch for that 40% off discount. Back to the show. Anyway, I got a nutrition tip for people that's really simple. Let's hear it. So, you know, easy way to add protein and a little extra calories if you want to do a really clean bulk. This is a super easy way to do it. And I was just talking with Doug earlier cuz I was eating the Paleo Valley meat sticks.

sticks. sticks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Each meat stick is about 6 g of protein, 70 calories on average. If you added four sticks a day, so in between meals, you could have it, you know, you know, could have it before breakfast or with breakfast and between breakfast and lunch. at once. at once. at once. Or all at once, but four That's my move though. have four a day, that's easy. 24 g of protein from what's pretty close to whole food whole food whole food and 280 calories right there.

Very, very easy. easy. easy. good macros. good macros. good macros. That's really good, dude. It's grass-fed meat or chicken or turkey, whatever you like. like. like. And it's 24 g of protein, 280 g calories, right? Four sticks a day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Super easy and they can go anywhere with you. you. you. Uh those are probably I'd say between that I know with Paleo Valley you also had the the the the donut flavor flavor flavor Oh, they're they're the protein that between those two I'd say those are the two like I forgot about that.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, they're chocolate? delicious thing yeah. Oh my god. What engineering magic did they do? they do? they do? I was I was late to the party. I remember when you when you were you were touting touting touting you were touting it so long. I mean what I loved about that powder was that you could I can do four scoops of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it just digests so so easy. Where I'm I have that upper limit with whey or any dairy product.

I can I can get probably 40 g, 35, 40 g in and I'm okay. I start pushing 60 and above and it's like I can feel bubbly guts from it. Where that the Paleo Valley I can with that bone broth I can have a ton of protein and be totally fine. And it's easy to take down. You know what I want to know, Adam, is the origin of clowns. I heard earlier I heard Justin say It's like he's shoehorning was was about to bring it up off air and I'm like how dare you?

That's a podcast conversation. conversation. conversation. I want to hear about this, dude. I listen to weird podcasts. So I'm going to to to a podcast conversation? a podcast conversation. guess what the origin was? Can we try to guess? guess? guess? ahead. ahead. ahead. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Yeah, like what part of the world and then like yeah. What they look like cuz this is like archetype stuff. Yeah. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, I bet that's has it totally evolved into into into I'm going to have a I mean it's not it's not it's not circus related.

related. related. Wait. Yeah, so that so That's the first thing I go to is circus. circus. circus. I would I Okay, I'm going to guess two guesses, either it started from court jesters Oh, that far back? where where kings had to have someone to make them laugh or it originated in Italy. And the reason why I say Italy is because the circus originated in Italy. Actual circus. Actual circus. Actual circus. a what has an older origin, a what has an older origin, uh circus or rodeo?

Circus is old. Yeah, that's good. I rodeo's got to be old, too. to be old, yeah. I don't know. Cuz you have rodeo Think about older cultures. cultures. cultures. You have you have rodeo Older than the Older than Italy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Woah, bro. Mesopotamia? Where are we going Babylon? Where are we going here, bro? No, a different part of the world, I guess. guess. guess. China? China? China? Uh closer. Yeah, there you go. India? India? India? India has the origin of clowns? This is what they were This is what they were talking about.

talking about. talking about. Yeah, and then like the depiction of it being similar to what we see now like in modern circus. It's like having the red hair, the ginger hair, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the nose, the red nose and Really? Really? Really? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, which is interesting. Hopefully you can find like a picture of it. circus goes longer. Doug, look up origin of clowns. of clowns. of clowns. Significantly longer, dude. Origin [clears throat] of clowns, Italy. Okay. Or India, sorry. Okay, yeah. Okay, yeah. Okay, yeah.

I have another one here that says Egypt, but let's see here. Yeah, there you go. Even Yeah, but you have further back. back. back. It might be that the clowns as we know with the red hair and stuff. Yeah, they're they're they're associating with the uh yeah, the modern circus. So, what were they This is the one I found. Oh my god. Fifth dynasty of ancient Egypt about 4,400 years ago. So So So Serious authority serving a vital That's not the same like clown Like I like I'm thinking of like a clown with the Okay, let me get India here.

hair. Let me see here, dude. This is Cuz they were they were joking that like it was like basically they're making fun of of of uh uh uh English English English because of the red hair and Oh, that makes sense. And then yeah, and like using that as sort of like the uh satirical blundering What So, they were making fun of the the people that were trying to This is this was their speculation. I I I can't fact-check all that, but it was it was an interesting conversation.

What what was what I what was the primary job or thing they did? Was has it always been like humor poke fun? Um Um Um So, so how did it I know Doug's Googling away different stuff here, but I'm curious to know They were called the Vidushaka. Vidushaka. Vidushaka. It was a blundering, good-hearted, often bald-headed, and hung hungry Brahmin who acted as a loyal friend and confident to the Yeah, so so what they do is they use sarcasm and humor to critique society and keep kings in check.

So, Like a jester. So, very jester. Yeah, Vidushaka. Vidushaka. Vidushaka. Type in Vidushaka. Let's see what he looks like, Doug. Yeah, yeah, Vidushaka. Let's see what he looks like. Uh one who provokes laughter. provokes laughter. provokes laughter. So, how Okay, if that's So, how do they make their way into the rodeo? Oh, I don't know. That's another good That's a whole 'nother Yeah, like like world Yeah, that doesn't look funny at I would wonder if you know, in Spain cuz they have like the you know, that whole with the matador like as a distraction.

I wonder if it evolved from from that. Yeah, I mean, that's they start using clowns to kind of distract distract distract Look at look at why why why did clowns make their way into to rodeo? Because if that's what they're designed to do, Do you guys know that the clown that a clown is often times the highest paid performer in a circus? No. No. No. Yeah, they are yeah, cuz they they have to do all the the um the transitions and then keep the crowd engaged and so they're basically like the host.

They're multi-talented. They're multi-talented. They're multi-talented. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, my So, you guys know Jessica used to travel with Cirque du Soleil and she's like the I I I asked her like who's the highest paid highest paid highest paid Look look I I wonder if that's the similar with the rodeo, too, because look at this it says it's they're uh uh uh they're they're supposed to be entertaining, protecting or comedy, moving the show along. They like constantly have to be entertaining. So so yeah, cuz she told me cuz I asked her, "So who makes the most in the circus?" She goes, "It's usually the clowns." I said, "Why?" She's like, "They need to know how to sing.

They need to know how to make humor. They need to know the whole show. If something goes wrong in the show, they have to entertain the audience. Well, cuz circuses are performing all the time." the time." the time." Right. Right. Right. And there's always Oh yeah, there's always a mishap. An animal gets out or something doesn't work. work. work. That's what she told me. She was, "Every show something happens and you got to like replace it with something else. And the clown is the person that fills in the space." And so she said they make the most money.

Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Which I had no idea. I thought it was like the like the like the What's What What are What are the highest paid clowns? What's What's top salary? salary? salary? clown school, too, like Is there really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's top salary for a for a clown? Barnum and Bailey like Where they're balling, bro? There was a a kid that was in my my son's gymnastics. son's gymnastics. son's gymnastics. clown? clown? clown? Who also went to like a Barnum and Bailey school for clowns.

So most of them make between 58 to 89,000. Top independent earners make 114. 114. 114. In history, In history, In history, Swiss performer Grock. Oh, isn't that interesting? Grock. Grock. Grock. Is that who we named after? How much do they make? One of the highest paid individuals in America. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Wow. Look at that. Back in the day they made a lot I don't think clowns are very valuable anymore. valuable anymore. valuable anymore. But they used to. I mean, they still they still they still still play the same role in rodeo and circus.

circus. circus. Yeah, so they would I would think they would be would be would be Do you guys know why clowns are scary? Cuz you know a lot of people are scared of clowns. of clowns. of clowns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually saw this Stephen King? Stephen King? Stephen King? No. No, they were scared before I feel like he made them scary. No. No, it was a fear before that. It was. Yes, it was a common fear. It was a common fear before. I actually read this once.

There's a psychological I told you guys about this. There's a psychological phenomena when a person is smiling all the time and it rest of the facial features don't match. How eerie is it? Yeah, it sets it makes you feel kind of Remember when that that that movie came out a couple years ago that was called smile or whatever like that and they had and the way they promoted it was they just had the fan they had the the random people would be standing in the fans and they would just be smiling and staring off like how creepy that was was brilliant.

brilliant. brilliant. another common fear? Balloons. Do you guys know that? That's a common fear people have of balloons. interesting. interesting. interesting. Really? Really? Really? Yeah, cuz they they're going to pop at any moment. any moment. any moment. So people get anxiety. The anticipation of it just kills people. people. people. I didn't know that. Now remember when you brought up the the shark thing because obviously people have always been afraid of sharks but after after jaws came out it was like a now was the same thing happen with it?

It definitely made it had to. Yeah, way less popular. Because I most people I know that say anything about clowns like they draw it back to it. Not because they had some childhood trauma thing or they had some childhood thing with they were afraid of clowns like they knew they were they were aware of the movie it and that that that Killer Klowns from Outer Space. One of the best movies of all time. Yeah. No, so it's so it says there that it it heavily amplified a fear that already existed.

So yeah, I told you. told you. told you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah that but what they what it did is it made the original clown costume something that people couldn't do anymore. So the original like McDonald's clown, you know, red and the Yeah, they had to change it. Children's clowns stopped dressing that way because that movie made that the scariest. scariest. scariest. Oh, that's a what's that movie? That's a what's his name? Who's that Rob Zombie? No, in the middle there. That's a Rob Zombie movie Zombie movie Zombie movie isn't it?

isn't it? isn't it? Or is that American Horror Story? I would say cuz the left one is it I know that. No, you're right. American Horror Story. No, that's right. Oh, you remember that huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. I know crazy. Clowns are clowns are creepy. All right, I'm going to change the subject. So I got to just rave about this peptide stack that I have that I using from our partners, at mp-hormones.com. at mp-hormones.com. at mp-hormones.com. The KLO stack. So, you guys know just cuz on that, right?

So, yeah, and I'm using it, too. Katrina Oh, you are, too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. Oh. Oh. Yeah. So, Yeah. So, Yeah. So, Katrina Katrina has, too. using using using And she loves it, yeah. Dude, okay. So, you guys know the Wolverine stack. Okay, Wolverine stack is TB-500 and BPC-157, right? So, they both both both accelerate healing, recovery. They're different mechanisms. One, BPC, is produced in the gastric juices of the body. The other one is produced by the thymus gland. Both of them different, but they're synergistic.

And they call it the Wolverine stack cuz people use it when they have an injury and the healing time is just it's ridiculous. And we've all experienced this. Like, I've had injuries when I tore my hamstring in Hawaii. Uh it should have taken me months. I mean, it was a nice tear. You guys saw the bruising. bruising. bruising. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was weeks. It was like a few weeks later and I was working out, which is wild. Okay, wild. I know you've experienced it with your injuries.

So, KLO is like the Wolverine stack and then you add on even more. So, for skin? for skin? for skin? So, they use it for skin, but it's like like you want a healing stack, go on that one. What comes with that is GH GHK-Cu. TB-500, GHK-Cu, and KPV. And KPV, that's what I asked. So, now you add two more peptides that accelerate healing accelerate healing accelerate healing and it's wild. And I'm experiencing this right now because I'm doing uh jujitsu and my joints are stiff and I'm getting used to the movements and all that stuff and I wonder how they got And it's crazy how fast I I will recover from stuff.

from stuff. from stuff. I wonder how they got to this stack, like to to to add all those. Cuz I Cuz I Cuz I Cuz people were already adding them. They were stacking them on their own, learning about them, and they just put it together. it together. it together. Oh, you think so? Oh, wait. Doug, put Watch this. Check this out. Now, this isn't indicative of like what everybody should experience, but type in KLO before and after and click on images and watch people's their faces.

faces. faces. Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Their skin and wrinkles and stuff like that. It's watch before and after. Total glow up. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You'll see before and afters of people on their skin. Yeah, look at that. This stuff's crazy. It's uh like you won't need Botox. have the capability, you pair that with some red light. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] You do that you do that. That's what Katrina does. Katrina takes it, she does her red light in front of a red light at night, sits in front of her face and Look at that one.

Look at that before and after of that woman. Damn. Damn. Damn. Yep. Yep. Yep. That don't even That looks fake it's so good. good. good. No, it's legit, dude. It is legit. I'm experiencing it with recovery, which is I know when I have certain aches and pains. I've been working out forever. I know how long it would take for them to go away. go away. go away. It's like days versus what it would take like a week or 2 weeks. like the main thing that you stopped doing jujitsu?

Was it the the pain of of the joints or what what was it? Yeah, why did you stop jujitsu back in the days? the days? the days? I had a realization. You ever have I don't know if you guys ever had this happen. happen. happen. you're getting too good. No. No. No. No, dude. You ever have a realization where you you look back and you're like, "Oh, man, I never admitted that to myself, let alone to anyone else, why I did X, Y, or Z." You ever do that?

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, that's what happened to me. So, uh I was just today, you know, finished jujitsu, I'm driving. And uh you know, I'm doing my listening to a sermon, so that's like my spiritual time is time is time is typically post workout, which is good cuz it cuz it cuz it actually helps me kind of you know, see things differently. things differently. things differently. And I'm thinking back to when I used to do jujitsu and I used to love it, right? I did it for a long time, loved it.

Um and I remember the thing that caused me to kind of want to stop and it all had to do with my ego, which is really embarrassing to say. So, I competed in a big tournament uh in San Francisco. It was the United Gracie uh tournament. I think it was in 2006. It's not the All Valley tournament. Something. Something. Something. It's like that. Cool, dude. Cool, dude. Cool, dude. I wrapped my What's his name? That's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I won that tournament.

And I won it, nobody sing scored a single point on me. Uh they had promoted me to purple belt right after. And so I was feeling like like like Yeah, dude. I'm really good. of the world. great, right? great, right? great, right? I uh signed up for the US Open, which was was was not that long after. Uh I want to say six or seven months later. It was like a purple belt? Purple belt. Purple belt. Purple belt. I already know what's coming here. So, now I felt this bloated sense of self because when I would roll with the dudes in the gym who were purple belt or brown belt or even black belt, like I would do pretty good.

Um and so I show and I trained for this tournament. Like I trained smart, I did everything right. I sign up, I go to this tournament. And it's single elimination. elimination. elimination. And I go against this dude who ended up being uh you know, this top fighter later on. Trying to make myself feel better. better. better. But he beat me in less than a minute. Like we we we hit the ground. He moved a particular way, caught me off guard, caught me in a arm lock, lost out.

That's it. I'm out of the tournament. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt so like embarrassed. Yeah, dude. In fact You stopped after that? Hold on. I had family members that were coming to watch. They didn't even get to see. They got there a little late. Oh god, that's so sad. So, they showed up and I'm there and they're like, "Hey, what's going on?" I'm like, "I lost." Yeah, I'm already out. You drove all this way. So, I left So, I finished that. Huge blow to the ego.

And then I kept training a little bit, but I think it was that, dude. And it was that was that was that after that you quit? shortly after that that I started to quit. And I never really admitted it to myself. myself. myself. that story. that story. that story. admitted it to myself, let alone tell anybody else. Because I don't want to admit to myself I'm a quitter. So, if you didn't admit to yourself, what was the lie you told yourself? told yourself? told yourself? The lie I told me and there's partial truth to this.

There usually is. There's partial truth to this, which is uh that I was building my it wasn't that I I building my business and the times that the classes were running were times I could fill with clients and so and that's the thing with jujitsu you got to show up and do a class whereas when I lift I could lift at any time. Type of deal. And so I just got back into lifting and kind of abandoned jujitsu. But as I'm looking back I'm like dude I if I won that tournament for sure I wouldn't have stopped.

be going. be going. be going. Yeah. What about you? What about if you even lost but you lost like closer like it was a better match? Do you think that I got I got my ass kicked so hard. So so So so So so do you think like obviously if you win it that that changes that I don't know dude. I think probably. But to be that embarrassed Right right to get whooped humbled. Which is you know logically this is fight sports. Like that'll happen. Well especially when you just got elevated to that next level and you go outside of your little ecosystem of your gym who you're By the way too that I would think I don't know cuz I don't have done this but I would imagine when you roll even if they're brown belts about us with the same guys all the time you start to learn their techniques and there's a little bit You know what they're going to do.

So going and meeting a purple belt at but a really good purple belt you've never rolled with before. Who I would have gone against who I don't know if he got first or second. Was this sweet days? No no Mike wasn't competing but you know who was in my pool? Luke Rockhold. Oh really? Oh really? Oh really? Yeah Rockhold was jujitsu so he did jujitsu. jujitsu. jujitsu. Yes he did jujitsu at Claudio in Santa Cruz. Cruz. Cruz. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he was a purple belt when I was a purple belt and he was in the pool so I would have had to go against him anyway.

So he So he So he as you say you whoop I mean he's a bad I mean the guy is Yeah of course. Uh but dude I think it's cuz I got I got my ego destroyed. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. And I think that really demoralized me and I didn't want to admit it to myself cuz who wants to admit to themselves they're a quitter because their ego got bruised? Nobody. Not me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah I was thinking about that in the car and I called my wife I'm like hey you want to know why I quit jujitsu?

And she's like why? And I told her and she's like what? Like, "Yeah, dude." Interesting. I know. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Which is good to know now because, you know, I'm going to get my ego bruised again. again. again. Yeah. It happens. And you know what? You don't get your ego bruised when you go lift weights by yourself. yourself. yourself. I'm trying to get a good story out of you. You're in your own world. You're in your own world, dude. You know? know? know?

We we all have to have a pretty good story like that. There's got to be something like this where I where I had like stopped doing something, kind of lied to myself about why. And that's a really interesting thought. That's really crazy. really crazy. really crazy. I have in football for me for sure. Which is, you know, the worst cuz that was like my best sport. And I like it was I wasn't going to play another year. I had I had figured out how to how to how to a redshirt year so I could play, you know, a fifth year.

Uh I thought I had burned it up cuz I was at a different school and transferred. And he's like and then so I was like I went through the whole process of like this is my last season. I like put everything out there uh for that last season and we like, you know, made a bowl game and like I I kind of did the thing that I was like going to do. And you know, and I got emotional and I was just like, you know, at the end it's like was this the end?

This is like I have a new identity now and I kind of had that sort of like whole process happen then and then the coach came back to me and was like, "Listen, you're still eligible." And I was like, "Yeah, really?" Like it just threw me so off. I had like the worst year ever the last year, my my fifth year. Like I I like was so checked out. Like my um yeah, my mind wasn't in I was into like playing music and like I I had already started to kind of transition and move on to the point where like in practice, like I was kind of like just going through the drills and everything, but like I wasn't learning We had a new defensive coordinator that came in came in came in and he was just like guns blazing.

Like you have to learn the system. Like this is my took it he took it from some like successful college that he was at and like, you know, everybody has to memorize these specifically and I just, you know, and I and I was just relying on my talent at that point and like, you know, showing up, but I wasn't like and so he started to pick up that I wasn't memorizing all the plays. He was getting pissed off with me. We were butting heads. He I sat the bench like the the second half of the season.

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah, I've never done that in football. I've never watched from the sidelines and it killed me. And I was like, I'm done. After that? After that? After that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I you know, I have so I have a similar story. Now, you just sparked that for me. So, my senior year, my senior year of high school and I told the story on the podcast, but I the way I tell the story is that I wanted to work and make money, which is partially true.

You know, like I I wanted I had girlfriend, had a car and if I wanted these things, I had to pay for them. So, I needed to work and work before school. But the the deeper truth is that my junior year, I rode the bench and it would just get crushed it crushed me. And I was just like, I'm not going to go my senior year and potentially do that. Had I played like crazy and and had a felt like I had a shot to be a starter and playing my senior year, I probably would have played even I would have found a way out work wise.

I would have worked around it or something like that to make it all work, but because that crushed me so much my junior year, that I'm like, there's no way I want to go another year like that that I said, "Eff it. I'm just going to work and do that." And so, the story I tell is always I needed to make money. I needed to work, which is partially true, but probably deep down it was more my ego was bruised that I didn't get to I didn't play.

And I felt I was good all my peers thought I was, my buddies and coach didn't think so and so, yeah, that was a It was funny, yeah, cuz like your story of like, you know, people showing up and you're not there. Like, that was like the same. I had like cousins and people flying in and they were like expecting me to play. I didn't even play. I'm like and I'm begging the coach put me. He's like, "No." And wouldn't put me in, you know, all my family was there and all this this is It's never happened to me before.

It sucks. sucks. sucks. Dude, it sucks so bad. It's like it's funny cuz I was talking to to Jessica about like competing at some point potentially. I don't think I will, but you know, I just kind of playing with the idea. And she's like, "Oh, I'd love to come watch you." And I'm like, "I don't think I want you to watch me or the kids cuz if I lost in front of my kids, I think my ego I don't know if I could survive that kind of a hit, you know?

But what a what a what a terrible lesson would I be teaching my kids? I know. You're right. You're right. You're right. It's so it's like one of those things that you just got to you got to wrestle with a little bit. Yeah, get through it. You guys got to watch that just cuz you brought this up. I brought it up to I think the other day. Um day. Um day. Um I told my wife, I'm like, "If you saw me lose to a man in a fight, you would be so turned off.

There's no way you would think I'm attractive. I'd get my ass kicked." kicked." kicked." I know. It's It's got to be one of the worst things. side is if I win, like I'm hot, you know? know? know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I lose, I see you're like this. That's a big hit. hit. hit. But if some dude like dominates me There's no in between, dude. We're going home and I'm doing the dishes. You're definitely not turned on by that. So I So I uh I've never been a big tennis watcher tennis watcher tennis watcher and I'm watching the documentary on Rafa Nadal and it's really good.

And his story is crazy and his his rise and fall and his injuries and his comeback at like 38 years old trying to do it and he's got a kid all he wants to do he I mean I think he's won over 20 Grand Slams plus in his career. So he's like one of the winningest one of the winningest players. Yeah, players. Yeah, players. Yeah, arguably one of the best of all time. Uh but then now 38 trying to come back do it has a son wants his kid to see him raise a a trophy and working through these injuries and you know, gets to plays one then gets hurt play it's like so watching that and I'm not all the way through it.

So I'm still going it's really good and reminds me of a lot of what ego and all the relationship with it and everything like that. Nobody talks enough about what it's like cuz you know, you see someone compete at a high level and you think, "Oh, good for you." for you." for you." Nobody talks about what it's like for people when they reach a really high level level level and then they have to fall from that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, sports is a good example cuz uh especially with intense sports, you get older.

I don't care how good you are, are, are, uh it's you're just going to be too old to compete against people who are younger than you. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. What a psychological uh torture that is. Like when you're the king, you're the best in the world, which is going to be a short period of time. Not going to be You're not going to be the best in the world for 20 years. It's going to be a short period of time. And then you go from that to I'm not anymore.

Dude, I think What a cycle What a Like what a mind game. game. game. That's why I I really do think I feel like, you know, when when Tyson like goes back into the ring now and you're just like, "Oh, you just hurt." Like he is Conor McGregor, he's like, "Oh, I just get that like stomach ache cuz I know how they feel, dude." On on a very small level, obviously, not that high, but yeah, it's like, "Dude, oh, it's like you're not on you're not king of the world right now." Arthur Brooks talks about that.

Well, what's crazy you're you're comparing to comparing to comparing to sports, but I actually think this is this is a thing that not a lot of people talk about if you're great at anything. Anything. Anything. Anything. Name the the great some of our greatest CEOs and businessmen, how tortured they are. Some of our greatest minds in philosophy and whatever like that. The wealthiest of people like all these you get so great, you build your entire identity around that, and then you realize like when there's more other things and you want to try and pivot, like a whole world comes apart because you you invested so much in becoming That's who you are.

Yes. Yes. Yes. you now? There's This is one of the reasons, not the only reason, but one of the reasons why young celebrities, children celebrities, don't do well. Because they're so famous and so popular and they're kids and they're cute and then they get older and nobody likes them like they used to. That is devastating. It's hard for an adult. You imagine a kid who grows up with that kind of attention and glory and then suddenly it's gone. Oh, that's going to destroy you. Yeah, that'll crush you.

Yeah, that's right. So, I I think it transcends sports. I think sports I use sports cuz it's such an easy example. example. example. Yeah, it's it's an easy one, but I mean it mean I've seen this in like so many different disciplines. It's just like it's not just that. It's like you you wrap your identity up in this whatever this thing. I mean intellects. You see it you see it whenever and that and right away we were it's so interesting how we we are the way we're made up to almost admire these outliers, right?

We look up and do we put them on these pedestals regardless of what category it is. What name the thing you're into. Musicians, all of it, right? And it's like but in but do you have no idea the sacrifice they've made, the tort the inner torture they have, the future they have ahead of them when they are no longer playing the music or playing the sport or they've made all the money and it doesn't matter anymore. They've done all the talks, wrote all the books. Name the thing and then like then life hits them and it's like no one talks about that side of it.

We make all the documentaries about the the cool part of it, you know what I'm saying and highlight it and we all chase it and we have all you have so many people that are that envy it and want it. It's like that you wouldn't though. Arthur Brooks talks about this loosely. I forgot what the book is called. It's one of more recent books, but he talks about like that this split that happens after retirement after retirement after retirement where like half of them I don't know what percentage, but a large percentage of people their health declines, quality of life declines.

And then some of them have this improvement quality of life. And the difference is that people who do well go from doing to teaching. teaching. teaching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like let's say you're in a in a sport and you achieve certain level of success where you're doing really good and then you get older and you don't necessarily have like you could coach other people. other people. other people. And then you'll find a similar appreciation. Sometimes more. It's like um um um what's that Rocky? Is it Rocky V where he trains Tommy Gunn?

It's like one of the worst movies. Only you Only you could tie this into a Rocky movie. There's a lot of lessons in Rocky. So many good lessons. But remember he's coaching I was about to connect it to Carl Jung cuz I I I sent a thing to the boys the other day and and Carl Jung I makes me want to read the the whole book but I had this excerpt from it that I sent to the guys about uh you know your back half your first front 40 versus your back 40 of life and and and basically the message I'm sending to our young guys that it just gets better from here.

Like 40 on is so much better 40 to to death is so much better than zero to 40 and so you have so much more of life. And he Carl Jung's point is that the first 40 years is all education, experimental, learning about yourself, learning about life. It's like so much of that and there's a lot of pain and growth that comes in there and the back 40 is the enjoyment piece of that and learning how to enjoy that which ties into our other books. Part of learning how to do that is passing that on and teaching and you know a different a different level with the back of the back back back it's so fun to have trainers work for us.

us. us. Cuz we get to train them. We get to work with them on how to be better coaches and I I swear I've said this before I have never had a group of trainers get so good so quickly. A lot of that is leadership. We have incredible leadership here but also the tools that we have to teach them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't didn't exist when we were training people. No. No. No. Um that now we have to where they can review calls and they can actually see in real time and and afterwards what's happening.

happening. happening. But they're so good but it's so rewarding to coach these coaches on being good coaches and then to hear the feedback and to see what's going on. I was literally just thinking about this yesterday. I was going over like quarterly stuff and just reviewing the business things and I'm like man it's feel so blessed that we got to spend the first 10 years of of building this focused around helping others and like everybody like as far as like that listen to the podcast and that buy maps programs and I feel like this we're making this transition now and it's so much more focused on the coaches that are also still impacting all those people but it's it's a different shift.

Totally. Totally. Totally. And uh and what's cool, you know, selfishly uh feels even more impactful because we we can see the coaches. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Where when we are on here and we talk, even though we know we get to hear every once in a while or we did live events, we get a little bits of feedback. Where we have all these coaches in here now like every day. Every day we're hearing seeing stories or we're getting to to pop into zoom calls and say hi to the clients that they're impacting and working with and so what a cool uh rewarding transition that this thing has gone into and I've had more I we've had fun this whole time but I have even more fun now Mhm.

Mhm. Mhm. than I ever did before which is wild. I mean, I've never been able to say that. I've never been able to say that uh you know, over a decade into doing something that I I love it more than I did day one. That's That's wild. That never happened to me. Yeah. It was always getting boring. I know. I was looking for something else to entertain me and you know, get invested in but yeah, it's really had taken its own. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] Element can help prevent things like headaches, muscle cramps, fatigue, sleeplessness, and other common symptoms of electrolyte deficiency.

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I have it two or three packets a day. Go check them out. Go to drinklmt.com/mindpump. On that link, you can get a free sample pack of their most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase. Back to the show. show. show. Our first question is from Chell's Lab. What is optimal body fat percentage and muscle mass for women? How do you know when to stop when it's not for aesthetics? So, there's there's two ways to look at this. One of them is backwards and the other way is the right way to look at it.

So, the backwards way is to constantly test your body fat percentage and muscle mass and try to hit some kind of target. That's the backwards way. The right way to do it is to do the right things and allow your body to fall where it's going to fall. And the reason why I'm saying that is because I can give a range. Look, I can give a range right now and say say say for most women a healthy body fat percentage with good hormones and good lean mass and all that stuff and fitness is probably going to be somewhere in the low 20s body fat between 20 to let's say 25 26% body fat give or take.

But uh there's a wide variance there. variance there. variance there. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think if a woman was eating whole natural foods, getting good sleep, she was exercising appropriately, and she was doing that for a long enough period of time, her body will will fall to where it's supposed to be and that's the ideal place that she needs to be. What happens when you do this backwards is I start chasing a body fat percentage um and I'm like, "Well, I'm supposed to be I know they said low 20s.

I'm at 24. Maybe it should be 20." And you start pressing into that. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but then you start doing things that aren't necessarily uh better for consistency and longevity. So, I think where you fall is uh is going to be a result of of how you get there. I think you should just focus on how you get there rather than the result. In other words, building healthy behaviors around nutrition and exercise and movement and you should kind of naturally fall there. And I think I I agree with that cuz I I've seen um probably like probably like probably like the good examples a lot of in from 18 to 24 for women.

I've seen I've seen some women be able to hold 18% naturally just eating good, exercising, balance. exercising, balance. exercising, balance. I've seen as high as 28, 29 even. And I've and and then all the way up into probably the mid-20s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that could look very different on everybody's type. everybody's type. everybody's type. And so going for a look or a body fat percentage because we say this is a good place is a really tough thing to answer somebody. A much better approach is eat whole foods, hit your protein targets, strength train three times a week, make an effort to get 8 to 10,000 steps a day, make sure you do things that you love to do and enjoy, have balance in your relationship.

It's like and then guess see where you fall. And do that consistently. consistently. consistently. and health markers are like your north star. star. star. And if you do that consistently, cuz that's the other thing is if you have these swings of I do that for a while, but then I eat like crap and I don't do these things then it's like it's hard and then that question comes up where it's like really try and just be consistent about that and and watch where your where your where your it puts you.

Yeah, and see where it puts you and that's probably a good healthy place. Next question is from Nora Tulapriv. How do you increase the maintenance calories without gaining too much fat while simultaneously cutting down cardio? Yeah, by building muscle. So you increase your calories, you cut down cardio, you make strength the focus, focus, focus, the extra calories go to muscle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and so you don't gain too much body fat. Now I do want to be clear, some people need to gain body fat.

So if this is a woman who's asking and she's walking around at 15% body fat, we're probably going to need to increase your body fat percentage uh to make you healthier and give you better performance. Not a lot, but you probably need to get yourself up to closer to 20. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] But that being said, it's about building the muscle. So if you Here's what [clears throat] often happens. Often times I get someone like this, they're afraid of increasing their calories. I do what what saying, we cut down their cardio cuz they're doing too much of it.

I bump their calories, we focus on strength, and they're blown away by how [snorts] little or no body fat they gain. They're absolutely I can't believe I'm not gaining any body fat. I'm eating 800 more calories. Okay, but what else are you noticing? Well, I'm way stronger. I'm lifting more weight. Uh I did gain a couple pounds on the scale, but seems to be all muscle. So, it's really about really about really about aiming it towards muscle by sending the right signal, um training appropriately, and then that's where those calories end up going.

up going. up going. Yeah. I'd be interested to hear what uh cutting down cardio is where you're coming from. Because this this could also be challenging, too, if you if cuz somebody could say something like this to me, and and their cardio is training for a marathon every week, and their cutting down is still Too much. Too much. Too much. Yeah, still too much, and they're trying to reverse diet and build muscle. This can be difficult. If you're still sending a louder signal of cardio than you are of building muscle, this could be a challenge for you to build muscle.

And so, I would be interested to hear exactly where that's at. Um normally, what I like to do is whatever my cuz normally, people are doing 3 to 5 hours of cardio a week, I like to switch that immediately from cardio to walking. And focus on building muscle. And And And Walking's a great form of activity for muscle building. And it's not such a drastic cut in movement and calorie burn that they're going to see this massive weight gain, especially if we shift over to strength training, and we we do a small increase in calories, then most all those extra calories will get partitioned over building muscle, metabolism will speed up, and we shouldn't see any real fat gain over the course of we look at it over a 30- or 60-day window, uh it'll be a nice transition.

But, still trying to maintain some cardio cuz I don't want to put fat on, sometimes can send a conflicting signal of what we're trying to do. We're trying to reverse diet, we're trying to build muscle, but you're still hanging on to the cardio, Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. you know, a little bit, and a little bit to you is half of what you're doing before, but but what you're 10-15 miles a week. what you were doing before was marathon training, which is still ridiculous. So, I'd want to know more to be even more precise on what I'd prescribe here.

Next question is from Matthew with faith. What movements should I concentrate on to help fix my forward rolled shoulder? rolled shoulder? rolled shoulder? I'm going to be just to be clear, you could do what I'm about to say in a way that will make your forward shoulders worse. Okay? So, typically it's rows. Typically it's all rows or row variations. Now, here's the key. The key is that you pull your shoulder blades back and down while you do the row. So, I can pull and do a row with forward shoulder and just use my lats lats lats Mhm.

Mhm. Mhm. and actually make my forward shoulder worse. worse. worse. The key, again, you got to bring If you look at your shoulder blades, they need to come back and down, and that's what corrects or strengthens that kind of tall posture. Look, what we're what we're trying to strengthen are the rhomboids and mid to lower trapezius muscles, which are the ones that bring the shoulder blades back and down. If I don't do that, I can pull with my lats. I can pull a lot of weight with my lats, but it's not going to fix the issue that we're talking about here.

I love doing uh just just having weights in my hands and like creating that posture position you're you're describing. Like a farmer walk? Like a farmer walk, but even before walking is just holding isometrically holding the weights. Setting them down is even a primer or just to kind of like spark that that that connection there. So, to your point is if you're just doing rows and you're not really conscious of what's happening with your shoulders as you're rowing, we could be reinforcing that uh bad pattern.

But, you know, I like to start with that, and then, you know, I do like to incorporate quite a bit of farmer walks with really good upright postural positioning. positioning. positioning. I would I would prescribe um prone cobras and band pull-aparts almost daily. daily. daily. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To get [clears throat] them to get that get that that scapular articulation down and we're not like we're not going to be breaking down anything that I can't do so they can do it daily and practicing that and then doing what both of you are saying as far as your strength building exercises in your routines.

Uh because depending on how bad the forward shoulders and stuff like that, if you just go right to a movement like rows to your point, it's been many clients before I've seen there they're rowing with their arms. Yep. Yep. Yep. And they're they're not articulating You got to actually literally physically move their shoulders back. Yes. And and so and that'll just exacerbate the problem especially they get strong doing it that way. Um and so doing good priming stuff like prone cobras, band pull apart stuff on a daily basis uh frequently if you can.

And then when you get to the strength building type stuff, doing those farmer walks where you really articulate the scapula back, doing the seated rows and bent over rows uh is going to be the key to this for sure. Totally. Totally. Totally. Next question is from More Life Jojo. What was an ethical situation you faced as a trainer and how did you handle it? What do you think are common ethical situations trainers encounter? the obvious, you know, stereotype where the trainer has a romantic relationship with their client.

Um and we don't need to go there cuz I think everybody's like, yeah, don't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so that's obvious. Don't bang your client. But I'm going to speak to a less obvious one that I guarantee you some trainers going to listen to this and disagree with me. Uh but I'm going to just I'm going to sell it. Okay, because this is 100% true. 100% true. 100% true. You have to always and I made this mistake many times. You have to always maintain a separation, a professional separation between you and your clients.

And this is why it's so difficult. When you train people for 10 years, you when you see them twice a week for 10 years, you know them. They know you and it's very difficult. That that professional line it's it's so easy to blur it because because because you've known this person for a decade or even if it's just a year or two years and you want to hang out with them and you want to do things outside of the gym and you want to go on trips with them and you want to and you end up having a a a relationship that's both professional but then also not professional.

And I'm going to say this right now, it will hamper your effectiveness as a trainer if you blur that line. When this person starts to see you outside of this kind of professional relationship, like we're just buddies, just buddies, just buddies, your effectiveness actually starts to drop. You'll still maintain your friendship with them uh but your effectiveness starts to drop. So, how do you maintain that? Well, um and I had no problem with knowing my clients' families and my clients knowing my families, but it would happen with professional events.

I'd have events at my gym. I'd invite my [snorts] family, they'd meet my kids and stuff like that. But I didn't go travel with my clients and I had many clients who I knew very well who like, "Hey, let's go to Vegas together. Let's go to the Cancun together." Whatever. And I had I'd turn it down because I had too many experiences where I'd the line would get blurred and then either the client it felt weird asking them for money, if they started to become more flaky because we're buddies, uh or it was harder for me to influence them as their coach and trainer because they didn't view me so much as that and more as their friend.

And I think that's an important one uh to talk about cuz it's so easy to kind of blur that line. So, two come to mind to me right away um related to mainly to financial. So, I I was faced with a a major ethical situation uh when I was scaling the boot camps. camps. camps. Um and and that weighed on me a lot because it was at a period of time when we were transitioning before Mind Pump. I was moving out of cannabis and so and so and so like coming from a time of making a lot of money and being very successful in the cannabis space, moving out of that before Mind Pump was the uh least amount of money I was probably making over the last almost you know 25 years of my life.

life. life. And during that time I was scaling these boot camps and they were growing and doing well. doing well. doing well. And And And I was also and I tell the story about this is what made us all connect was I was aware of what would be best serving of those people. What they needed. So what they wanted versus what they needed. needed. needed. Yes. And I wrestled a very common one with the trainer. I wrestled with this because uh uh uh you know I and the lie I told myself was they love it.

And they did love it. They love me. They love me and they high-fiving and this is what they wanted and they they I didn't have to close anyone. They were signing up every month and and and you know we built this great community and so I told myself all the other positive things that they got from it or whatever but deep down inside I knew I wasn't really physically helping them and most of them were you know these most of these clients were 40, 50, 60 years old and there was other things that they should be doing that I wasn't providing in a boot camp setting and I I wrestle and I and I needed the money.

So I wrestled with that quite a bit. Ultimately I walked away from it. Ultimately I shut them down and I stopped doing them. I've told the story that that that the probably the guilt from that I continued to do that stuff for free for a mobility classes for a long time with those people. Um So that was the first one that comes to mind and then the other one was one was one was around similar time so probably why it was ethical and I struggled with it was cuz I knew I I needed I needed the the finances.

finances. finances. Um but I knew [clears throat] what was right and what was wrong. Uh when I was in competing which was beginning of my pump my pump hadn't taken off yet. We're doing it but we're not paying ourselves yet. It's growing. There's a lot of positive inside, but I'm also still having to keep all my finances and everything going. everything going. everything going. Uh and I was competing. I got known really quick uh and a lot of people wanted me to coach them. And so I was I like wasn't even trying to build a coaching business and I was building a coaching business.

And it was scaling pretty quick and I was doing well. And I was faced with a lot of um bikini competitors who wanted me to coach them. And when they would fill out the application, I'd have the the original Zoom call and talk to them and hear where they were at metabolically and stuff like that. Uh and they'd tell me I I hear I want you to coach me and there's this show and I would be like, yeah, no, I I I can't I can't do it.

It's unhealthy It's unhealthy for you to do that. Um I would want to train you for 6 months to a year to build you up before we do that. And I I know I lost a good amount of business because I know a lot of those girls went off and I know who they hired. And they went and got somebody else took their money and said, "Sure, I'll throw you on an hour cardio every day and starve your body for the next, you know, 12 weeks to let you do the show." So, those two times uh yeah, I was faced with that and and probably why, cuz I don't I can't think of other ones that come to me, why it was challenging was cuz it was a period of time in my life when I could use Yeah, I could use the money, but I knew what was right and still walked away from it.

Yeah, that's kind of I mean, it's similar to the only one I could kind of think of was like besides, you know, the stuff that's like they're trying to hang out too much and of course, you get really close with your clients, but um yeah, the we used to be next to the geriatric treatment kind of place where like doctors would prescribe uh this really, really low-calorie and then they'd give them shakes and kind of make up for that. Uh and I just I was so uncomfortable with uncomfortable with uncomfortable with with somebody would come in with that and then they wanted to be able to get the treatment so they had to lose like 20 lb or 50 lb or whatever it was like quickly.

quickly. quickly. Or they or they had to gain it to qualify. qualify. qualify. Or they had to gain it. Yeah, so there was one or the other and like uh so I had both situations and like I just didn't I ethically I just was like I can't can't can't like they would want me to basically like, you know, have the most intense almost circuit training and then they they would like they hate that I was putting them through actual strength training and like really trying to build them up and like, you know, I was I was definitely challenging them with their with their nutrition and uh so it was one of those things I actually let a couple of those clients leave and I just I I couldn't do it cuz I just was like this is just not like you're going to have to find somebody else to do this is not good for you like I actually had one lady actually pass out and I was like and I asked her like how many like how much are you eating and like we went into it and it just all these red flags kind of went off for me and I was like I'm done.

You just reminded me of a specific one I had. I trained a young lady for the Miss San Jose pageant. And I trained her because uh she was dating someone close to me. I won't say who it was but someone I knew. So So they're like, "Hey, you you you know, train her?" And I was sure. So I trained her and she won. So she gets first place. Next thing you know, everybody's like, "How did you look so good?" All these other moms coming to me.

So I got Yeah, so I had all these inquiries from um these pageant competitors and their moms Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. who wanted me train uh their daughters and uh it did not feel right at all. I mean I I've told this story before but I remember I was at that Miss San Jose and had all these people coming up to me like, "Oh, you I I want to talk to you afterwards and she looks so good. Let me see what's going on." And um I had this one mom come up to me with her daughter who was probably 15 and she's like, "Hey, I'm interested in in in you training my daughter and this and that and getting her ready." And she goes, "But can you please explain to her how eating too many apples can also make you fat?" And And this is a 15-year-old girl, and the mom is saying that.

And I'm I looked at her and I looked at her daughter. I said, "That's not what's going to make you fat." And she's like, "What But it's calories, right? Isn't it excess calories?" I said, "Yeah, that's the wrong information." And I was like, right then and there I'm like, I'm not training any of these kids and any of these because this is going to be All I'm going to do is get into battles with the parents, and I'm only going to encourage these girls to not be in pageants.

in pageants. in pageants. That whole space was just was just like We all worked at that Santa Teresa gym, and Justin's talking about the clinic across the street Yeah, I saw that, too. And so, I actually had clients that because they can get insurance to cover that. They have to be a certain overweight overweight overweight obese enough to get They would want to hire me weight. weight. weight. to gain weight. so they'd eat like crazy. And so, yeah. Yeah, I was like, I can't do that.

do that. do that. too. Yeah. too. Yeah. too. Yeah. Like you She's They would come to me and be like, I need to get put on like 25 lbs of body fat in order to qualify for the insurance to pay for this surgery. And I already didn't was not a fan of that surgery anyways. Now, if it's a life or death situation for somebody, understandable. Like if this person's 400 lbs doing the gastric, like it is what it is to save a life. But I think I I totally was against that as a a method of losing weight um and turning down money.

They're like willing to pay you. Yeah, I know I did the same thing. Yeah, crazy. All right, I know you liked that episode. If you did, check this one out. Walking, it's one of the best things you can do for your health, bar none, but there's a better way to approach it. Yes, you can just walk, but if you follow the right protocol, it's far more effective. Let's talk about walking. I can't wait to hear a walking protocol. Well, there is a Well, there is a protocol.

So, and I'll start with the first thing, right? Cuz just first off, uh let me start with this. One of the reasons why walking um is such a great form of just activity is because it's low risk of injury. Now, some