How to Negotiate Like a $6 Billion Sports Agent | Greg Genske

Key Takeaway

Before your next difficult conversation, spend 20 minutes preparing the other person’s case—not just your own. Write down what they want, what pressures they face, what risks they are managing, and what a win looks like for them. Then open by showing you understand that reality. Greg Genske’s negotiation edge is not aggression; it is calm, expert-level preparation that creates rapport and turns an uncomfortable confrontation into a collaborative search for a deal.

Episode Overview

Ed Mylett reconnects with childhood friend Greg Genske, a veteran sports agent and CEO of VaynerBaseball, to discuss career pivots, high-stakes negotiation, athlete education, sobriety, and flow. Genske explains how leaving a successful trial-law career for sports representation led to billions in negotiated deals—and why preparation, empathy, discipline, and continual evolution matter more than titles or past success.

Full Transcript

Transcript of How to Negotiate Like a $6 Billion Sports Agent | Greg Genske from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Most people only make a change if things are terrible. Right. Right. You didn't It wasn't terrible. You made a change when things were pretty good. What made you do it and how did you do it? I think it's really important to continue to evolve, you know, as a as a person, as a spiritual person, as a professional. And and I think it's incredibly important to follow your passions. You know, in that case, it was what I was doing. I was incredibly passionate about being a trial lawyer.

I had done it. I had done a lot of trials and I viewed it I kind of achieved that objective. This was a new challenge, a new challenge I was passionate about. And I just never looked back. I just went for it. I went for it knowing full full full confidence that I could do it, which is kind of crazy, honestly, that I thought I could walk in and do it. But also full confidence that, you know, this was my path. You know, like this was being laid out for me for a reason.

Interesting. Yeah. I I I wanted to follow that path that was being laid for me. You know, the only constant in life is change, right? The purpose of life is to continue and evolve as a person and to try to recognize those opportunities and those God messages when they come. And that's how I viewed it at the time. Like this was my calling, my path, and I'm going to jump in. Welcome back to the show, everybody. So, today is going to be one of the most interesting podcasts you've ever heard in your life and a very special one for me.

So, imagine this. Imagine you have a childhood friend who's your bestie and you've known him about, I don't know, 45 years of your life. But somewhere along the line, like you have with a lot of your best friends, you just sort of drifted apart. And so, the person that's on the show today was my best friend as a little boy. We were We were inseparable as kids. And at some point we kind of drifted apart and I had not seen him for 35 years until the last 24 hours.

Seen him on social media, we've texted, but we had not been in person together for 35 years. And I'm so proud of him because whatever you know about my life, this guy's even been more successful. He has been. He is he ended up going to Berkeley Law School, ended up becoming one of the top trial attorneys on the planet. He parleys that in a miracle way into becoming building one of the biggest sports representation agencies as a sports agent. He sells that. He goes back into the real world.

Then he partners with Gary VaynerSports. And now he's got another agency and I think he's the top sports agent on the planet. You imagine this, my childhood friend, top sports agent on the planet. He's the CEO of VaynerBaseball. He oversees everything with Gary V's company there and his company with VaynerSports baseball operations. He sold a business before, so he's an entrepreneur. He is an expert on negotiation, sales, persuasion. And he's my childhood bestie. So Greg Ginsky, welcome to the Ed Mylett Show. Thank you very much, Ed.

I I can't tell you how wonderful this experience has been to be reconnected with you. I mean, thank you for such a kind introduction. Too kind, probably. But I'm just thrilled to be here and most importantly thrilled to reconnect with you, bro. Yeah, I love you. I'm so proud of you. I've just It's amazing these two little guys growing up together cuz I Most of my audience knows a little bit about my story, but I thought it would be most interesting cuz guys, lean in here cuz you're going to you get access now to somebody who's negotiated some of the biggest deals in the history of sports.

You talk about $6 billion plus worth of deals. He's an unbelievable negotiator, persuader. But he's also just like my friend from when we were little. And so I thought it'd be interesting. I knew you were going to be successful. I did. I told you this we just connected last night. And And the reason was you you've always been super smart, but you've also had this like I I I call it like a drive and ambition in your life, too. So it didn't You know, some people you meet you go, I can't believe this guy turned out successful.

In your case, I knew it. You came from a good family. I saw how hard you worked. I kind of knew this was going to happen. I think my audience would be fascinated to know What What was I like as a kid? Cuz I don't remember me as a kid. What would you How would you describe me as a kid? Well, first I find it very interesting that you had so much confidence in me and I love that. Yeah. Right? And that's probably one of the many reasons that I was so drawn to you, you know, as my best friend when we were younger.

Mhm. Um you were a unique soul. Really? Yeah. Right? Right. You burned with passion. Mhm. You were driven to be successful at anything that you did. Mhm. Like any one of our activities was a massive competition. It was. You know, that I thrived with. You know, you were a year older than me. I looked up to you in a lot a lot of ways. Mhm. And you know, when I heard about where your career had gone to the amazing success and all of these uh great things you've accomplished, you know, first there's a little shock.

Like, wow, that's amazing cuz it's quite an accomplishment. Then there's like, yeah, of course. Really? Of course. Who you are and why you're successful today is exactly who you were as a child. You know, not fully developed yet, but I mean, I'll tell you what, you know, you had me running a track at 6:00 in the morning up at the middle school during the summer. What are we, like 10? Yes, you and I You and I started a a handyman business when we were weeding fields in the middle of summer in 90° heat.

Yep, that's right. Um but you started a business. That was actually your idea. but it was it was due to your inspiration. So, I I mean, you That That's what really attracted to me was that, you know, a really great person, but who was so driven. Really? And you were driven. You wanted to be the best at everything, whether it was the football game we were playing, Wiffle ball, which I was still better on Wiffle ball, by You were. I'll give you that. You were. It's probably probably why I blew my shoulder out.

you blew your shoulder out. It's why I kept playing. I was trying just trying to stretch it kept telling you, by the way, not to throw the Wiffle ball at you so you're not hurt. Listen to your parents. It's true. Lesson one. But yeah, you were driven to be great at everything that you did, but not just to be great, but to actually put in the work, right? And so you taught me a lot about discipline at a young age, and I think I was really drawn to that.

Really? I think I You know, I was telling you, I don't remember me at that age, and I think most people don't. I You know, I have a hard time. What I remember was which I must have done a good job covering up, kind of an insecure dude, introverted, you know you now know that when you'd come over my home that my dad was a drunk and a drug addict who got sober. I don't think you knew that when we were kids. Did we cover that up well?

Or did you know in my house there was some stuff going on? No, I mean, um I remember so, first of all, I loved your family. We We both spent a lot of time with each other His family was at my wedding, you guys, just so you know. Yeah. And I mean, we vacations together, you know, absolutely love your mom, loved your dad, loved all three of your sisters very much. And uh your dad always just seemed like to me the impression was always like just really busy.

We go to the game, then he'd disappear. Yeah, I know where he was now. Yeah, he'd come back at the end, but he was always wonderful to me, but just it always seemed like Mhm. too busy to engage in what we were doing. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I got to tell you the profile, and we'll get into you now, too, cuz that's what You're the guest, but um his dad was like a second dad to me. His dad, Gary, who I love very much. His dad was a very successful business guy, but he was like the present dad.

His dad was the one who threw us batting practice and worked out with us, and We couldn't get rid of him. We couldn't get rid of him, which I loved. You were sometimes. But he'd take us to lunch and have these long conversations, and so I knew you were going to win for those reasons. It is just really remarkable that we parted ways all these years, and then you've accomplished Same thing with you, I just want you to know. It was like I knew. I I was I was wowed by how successful you would become because Guys, that wasn't even a pleasant introduction.

Like he truly has accomplished all these things. He's lectured at Cal, he's become a a figure in the sports world. Like, he it's it's really unbelievable what you've done. And so, we probably should shift gears a little bit into teaching what you've become. But, I just I want to say one more time, like, man, what you've done and how you've achieved it. And by the way, with some bumps along the way. I think you're okay to talk about 100%. Yeah. I think maybe even as we go down that line, there's a through line a little bit.

At some point, you and I drifted a little bit. I don't think either one of us know when that happened, right? Because it wasn't like I ever We didn't have a big fight or anything like that. But, you were telling me last night, we finally had dinner together last night, that you think maybe you started to go down a little bit of a road, even though you were high functioning, and I didn't want to go down a particular road as kids. You You know what I'm talking about?

that there was a a clear for me, there's like this clear line where, you know, we're in high school, and maybe it's like my sophomore year in high school, your junior year. Okay. You know, you remained, you know, the disciplined guy, focused on doing the right things. I did for the most part, but I also started a separate life, where really gravitated towards the party scene, drinking, that kind of thing. And that wasn't your jam. Yeah. You know, and you know, in a lot of ways, I wish I would have stayed on your path, or the path we were on together.

But, that was my journey at the time. And I had a wonderful time, and you know, all that kind of stuff. But, I I really, as I look back, because there's no other reason, right? We shared um the greatest times together, Yep. a love for each other, Yeah. uh and a real passion for the things we love to do. That's true. You know, and I think I think that's just the path that I started walking down. Except Yeah. I knew you were going to become uh successful.

The where he really got me, you guys, was um he would kill me in baseball card trades. So, I would come back So, that's why I knew he was going to be a sports agent. He would I he would kill me in these trades. Like, I'd come back, he'd go, "You didn't really trade those two cards, Degensky, for blah blah blah." And he got me again. So, that's when the negotiating started. Just so you know, if you don't know that about you, it was taking advantage of Ed Mylett in baseball card trades.

It was the beginning of you being a good sports agent. always trying to make win-win deals. I'm sure if we went back and looked at the circumstances, you know, it was a good deal for both sides. I think you're completely full of it. So, so let's talk about your life and let's teach what you're great at. So, how does someone you're you're practicing attorney, you're doing very well, you're doing these big trials around the country, which I didn't even know at the time you were doing, and it's a really super interesting story.

You end up having a trial where you help what at the time was probably the biggest sports agency in the world or one of them. Tell them the whole story of how you even end up being a sports agent cuz you you weren't chasing that at the time. Sometimes dreams find us. Uh well, 100%. You know, I think if we stay disciplined, if we stay focused, we follow our passions, I think God, the universe takes us where we're supposed to be. I think that's really true in my professional life and I feel really blessed for it.

Um but yeah, you know, you and I love sports and in particular baseball probably to an a ridiculous level of obsession, right? It was bordering on religion for us. And you know, when the realization came for me that I wasn't going to play baseball, you know, which I probably gave up the fantasy much later than I should have. Um you know, I I had to figure out what to do, right? And I was a business major at Pepperdine. And this is really cheesy, so get ready.

Uh me and my buddies are watching the movie A Few Good Men and we're watching Tom Cruise and Kevin Bacon competing in court. And that just stoked my passion. I'm like, I can have a career where I get to compete, you know, on this stage, right? That really thrilled me. I'm like, you know what? I think I have the skill set for that. You know, I think I can do that. So, right then I decided I wanted to be a trial lawyer, you know, not a sports agent, you know, not an IP lawyer, not a trans- I want to be in court trying cases that matter.

And you're not no plan to no plans to go to law school. Not before that. Okay. No, so then I just started, you know, trying to get myself ready, get prepared, go to law school. And as soon as I got uh to law school, I was at Berkeley and I started working for the San Francisco Public Defender's Office. Mhm. Um it gave me an opportunity to get courtroom experience, learn, do a lot of amazing things, and meet a lot of amazing people, represent a lot of clients.

And so I jumped in 100%. This is what I want to do and yeah, after uh I graduated law school, I went to work You became huge. He became He's being humble, you guys. He ended up trying huge cases around the country, became super successful. The reason I want them to have this story is some of you have young people listening and maybe they're in college right now and they're committed to one track in their life and they're afraid to pivot, right? And then in your case, which is about to come next, it's like sometimes you have to re-audit your dream in your life.

So you you are now living this dream, right? If like you're trying these big cases, you know, I name a city, he's like, "Yeah, I tried a case there in Boston or whatever." You're naming the and then you end up for something with Steinberg or their agency in a case for them and then tell them the story. This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah, so primarily I've been handling technology cases, high-profile cases, and we had a lot of success. I had an amazing trial team. And uh Steinberg and Moorad were engaged in a you know, a bet-the-business, you know, foundational type lawsuit that they had to win.

Okay. And so they came to us, asked us to represent them in the case, and so yeah, that was when I first met my my mentor and and big brother Jeff Moorad. Yeah. Um so that kind of brought me back to my passion, right? Brought me back to sports, something you and I shared our whole life. And it really lit me up, you know, learning the sports agent business from these icons, Jeff Moorad, Leigh Steinberg, um you know, interacting with a lot of athletes, taking depositions, getting ready for trial.

Yeah. And so I jumped full into it and absolutely loved it. Um represented them for about a year before we went to a federal uh jury trial in Los Angeles and you know had a 6-week jury trial and ended up winning them a $44.66 million jury verdict. Strange number. Yeah. But that's what we did and uh yeah, and I really established a relationship with them. I really learned the agent business and ended up leaving being a trial attorney and and going to to work with Jeff Moorad and then take over the agency.

Okay, guys. I I want The reason I want him to tell you that story, a lot of you you're driving in your car, you're on the treadmill right now and you're in the pursuit of your dream and maybe there are days as you pursue it, you're like I thought this would juice me more or I thought this would be better or I thought I'd be further ahead. In your case, check all the boxes. You loved it. You were further ahead than you expected. And they come to you and go, "Hey, drop being a trial attorney, get into the sport agent business." Right.

And like so, take us through how do you make a decision like that? That's gutsy. Like you're living your dream, you're in pursuit of it. Most people in fact, you're not sitting here if we're being honest, right? If you don't make this decision, probably. So, how does one do that? Give someone like the the juice or the confidence to go, "Hey, it's okay to go get the thing you really, really want even if what you have right now is pretty damn good." Most people only make a change if things are terrible.

Right. Right? You didn't It wasn't terrible. You made a change when things were pretty good. What made you do it and how did you do it? So, when I started the podcast, it seemed like I had to figure everything out on my own. Scripts, set up, filming schedules, logos, online store, marketing. It was totally overwhelming. Every day seemed to have a new decision that I needed to make and I didn't have the answers for it. So, finding the right online tool not only helps you, but it simplifies everything and it can be a game-changer.

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Again, that's butcherbox.com/mylete. Be sure to use our link so they know we sent you. Well, I think it's really important to continue to evolve, you know, as a as a person, as a spiritual person, as a professional. And and I think it's incredibly important to follow your passions. You know, and in that case, it was what I was doing. I was incredibly passionate about being a trial lawyer. I had done it. I had done a lot of trials and I viewed it like I had achieved that objective.

This was a new challenge, a new challenge I was passionate about and I just never looked back. I just went for it. I went for it knowing full full full confidence that I could do it, which is kind of crazy, honestly, that I thought I could walk in and do it. But also full confidence that you know, this was my path. You know, like this was being laid out for me for a reason. Interesting. And I I I wanted to follow that path that was being laid for me.

What do you mean? Like like why would God put this in front of you if you weren't supposed to pursue it being such a huge baseball baseball fan. As a kid, actually, we talked about you being a sports agent. I don't Which is crazy. It's crazy. So, cuz I think sometimes people miss the breadcrumbs God's leaving them in their life Yeah. because they're so fixated on some dream they had 10 years ago. Is that Is that what you mean? Like Yeah, why would this even be in front of me if I shouldn't pursue it?

I You know, I think the purpose You know, the only constant in life is change, right? The purpose of life is to continue evolve and grow as a person and to try to recognize those opportunities and those God messages when they come. And that's how I viewed it at the time. Like this was my calling, my path and [clears throat] I don't think people realize how gutsy that is. You're making seven figures, okay? You're going to get into a business you know nothing about. You're now going to become an entrepreneur.

He's there like 6-8 months and he basically takes the thing over. That's a whole other story, right? But just for fun, we'll decide whether we keep this in the show or not, but just for fun, also I think sometimes the path I want everyone just pick up the breadcrumbs in life. Sometimes you find a business or a situation and you look into it and you go, I could do it better. That's another thing, right? Like I think what happened in that trial is you're starting to take these depositions of all these athletes and as you're learning how their contracts were negotiated for them.

Listen, everybody, cuz you might be in one business right now and there's a correlated business just to the left or the right that you're not pursuing that you could be missing. Like you could be in the mortgage business and you're this close that you should be doing insurance or real estate, right? Like so you're taking these depositions of these athletes. This is actually a really good story you told me last night. We'll decide whether we can leave it in. Sure. But everybody knows who Tom Brady is.

Mhm. And he's considered now the goat in the history of football. What most people don't know is that potentially if the guy starting a quarterback had a better contract, we may have never heard of Tom Brady. And so you're taking a deposition of Drew Bledsoe Mhm. who's the starting quarterback of the Patriots. He just signed like I think it was like the biggest contract supposedly in the NFL at the time. And then as you're taking his deposition, you might tell him everybody what you told me last night about as you're digging through this this contract.

Yeah, it's really uh This is awesome. Yeah, no. It It was It was really a coincidence of a number of things. One is he's my witness at trial that week. So I knew that he had a bye. It was during the NFL season, but nevertheless, I left him as my starting quarterback in my fantasy football. Yes. I mean, kicked out of my fantasy football league forever. Thank you, Peter Ziblatt. So he's my witness at trial. Drew had two of the best contracts ever, record deals done for him that were negotiated by Jeff Moorad Okay.

and Leigh Steinberg. Yep. His third contract was represented by his new agency who he left with who was our adversary in the case. Okay. And so during the cross-examination, I I took Drew through the different contract negotiations and the terms of the deals, the really remarkable deals that were done previously. And then the one that was just done that was not up to snuff. Just not a good contract. Right. Right. And then I questioned him about you know, what's guaranteed, you know, in a in a NFL football player's career, right?

The risk of injury, how important it is to have the right contract in place, right? Guaranteed dollars, structuring a deal in a way that the team can't cut ties with you. So they stay committed to you. Some of those important things and got him to admit that his contract wasn't good. Crazy. Right? That and in fact, got him to admit that he actually cut the fee that he was willing to pay that new agency on that contract. And I I you know, I had the jury really involved in this.

The judge, I mean, this was like very, very interesting testimony from a from a legal standpoint as good as it gets. And I ended it with like a big open-ended question which you usually don't do on cross-examination. Which was, what if things don't go well for you? You know, heaven forbid, you suffer an injury. What happens now that you don't have a contract in place that is going to ensure the team is committed to you and your future? Gosh, dude, this is crazy. And it just fell in silence.

And then, unfortunately for Drew, as fate would have it, there was an issue that happened creating the opportunity Yeah. for the for the goat of all time to step in and take it. Drew ends up in Buffalo. Yes. And my point there was the right contract may have made Tom Brady end up in Buffalo, kept Bledsoe the quarterback. That's actually probably what would have happened. The truth of the matter is like Drew was replaceable because the contract was somewhat vulnerable. Correct. And so, as a Patriots fan, I remember thinking, I almost wanted Drew to come back in at that time.

We didn't know who Tom Brady was. I mean, he was He was Drew was that guy. Yeah, he But he ends it probably ends up the truth is, just the way the world works. Belichick gets all this credit for well, I went with Brady. Well, you could go with Brady because you knew the contract of Bledsoe was vulnerable. And nobody knew that until you did this in the trial. So, now we have Tom Brady as this great goat. But the truth of the matter is had you negotiated Drew Bledsoe's contract, we may not know who Tom Brady is to this day.

For real. Seriously. I mean, he probably ends up being the goat anyway, but that's a crazy story that you were in the middle of. So, when you negotiate, like you're the master of teaching this, people don't realize they're negotiating all the time. So, I you're negotiating with your kids to get them to pick up their room. You're negotiating to get a better pay at your job. You're negotiating constantly. That the world is sort of like an ongoing negotiation. And I actually think the people that are actually aware that they're in a constant negotiation in their life are already ahead of the people who are unaware that someone's negotiating with them whether they know it or not.

What are some of the keys for you in being a great negotiator when you putting a deal together, whether it be a baseball contract or just like in general? Yeah, I you know, I've been teaching negotiation now at Berkeley Law for a number of years and I mean, I'm teaching to some really, really intelligent, accomplished students. And I was blown away at how most people don't understand the first thing about negotiating. I think the most important first thing to understand is kind of the psychology behind it.

Right? That you're you're entering into a process that by its nature is uncomfortable. Right? It's confrontational. And so, most people have an intrinsic need to resolve the conflict and move on. And so, I think one of the biggest things that I teach right at the beginning of my course every year is understanding kind of the the brain chemistry that's going on. You know, understanding how you might get in fight or flight, the amygdala takes over. You know, and you know, I get to my woo-woo practices, right?

You know, focus on your breathing, you know, focus on visualization before you get in. Really try to find a way to make yourself comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. And surrender to the process. That I'm going to be engaged in this negotiation. You know, it may there may be tough moments, there may be hard words, uh but I'm committed to this process because I understand negotiating is a part of life, as you said, in all aspects of our life. Uh so, I think the psychology is really important.

And there's really no substitute for immaculate preparation. Yeah. For a negotiation. And what I mean by that is just not not just understanding what you know what you want, what I want to accomplish, what I think, what are my reasons, but you really put yourself in the shoes of the person on the other side of the table. Mhm. To really understand what's motivating them, you know, who are their bosses, what expectations are their bosses putting on them. Uh what are their business needs, you know, what what what do their balance sheet look like, what do their income statement look like.

Mhm. Um [clears throat] if you're negotiating a playing contract, what does their roster look like, their farm system. Really being the expert, which is critically important so that you have good judgment in there, but it's also critically important so you can establish with the other side I'm an expert. Mhm. I came in here as an expert and I'm sensitive to your position and point of view. I understand where you're coming from. Mhm. Immaculate preparation because I want to ask you a couple things about this cuz I I my now that you're saying it, right?

Like my most successful friends I think now that I'm just listening to you, I think they're I'm talking about regardless of industry, like entrepreneur, real estate developers, like I'm talking they're like the best negotiators. Yeah. And they actually or even the best politicians that I've worked with, you know, prior to you and I were talking last night about a few, right? Which is pretty pretty cool stuff. They're actually unbelievable at they they spend actually almost as much of their time on your position and your situation than they do their own.

Like I think of someone that I think is like a master politician whether you like him or not, doesn't matter. This is not about his political beliefs, but I don't I think most people would say Barack Obama was a exemplary communicator. If you go watch his style he already knew what points you were going to make. So he could actually frame your point in a way that served him. He wasn't caught off guard by what you were going to say or what you were going to think or what your point of view was or what your position was.

He knew it better than you did. Which made him unbelievable. So is that what you mean by the preparation on the other side? Like if I'm negotiating a real estate deal with you, I should I should know more about you, the house, your background, other properties you own, debt you have, etc., etc. Yes. That gives me strength knowing your position, your vulnerabilities and your strengths. 100%. Okay. And and again, it's it's about as you say with with President Obama being able to articulate his positions in the most meaningful way because he anticipates and understands the other side's arguments, where they're coming from.

It's also critically important. You're creating a rapport with the person you're negotiating with. Mhm. They need to understand that you're an expert and that they understand your point of view and that we're deal makers together. Mhm. We're trying to do this together. You can count on me. I've demonstrated you that I'm an expert in this space. Mhm. And I've demonstrated to you that I'm also sensitive to your point of view and your position. Interesting. And I want to make a deal. You want to make a deal.

I'm thinking of I'll give meat to everybody politically. The the best communicator I've ever seen as a president was Reagan. And Reagan's strength was he was actually a Democrat before he was a Republican. Right. And what did that give him? It gave him the strength of understanding the belief system and the positions of the other side better than most of them did. He could articulate why being a progressive and why being a liberal could work because he was one at one time. Sure. And I think a lot of time people get so ingrained in their own position, like even in their marriage, Yeah.

that they don't spend enough time in the other person's position or trying to get your kids to do the things you want. Like actually put yourself in their shoes. Why are they behaving this way? Why do they think this way? I never thought about that before, but my most successful friends are actually the best at negotiating and understanding the other person's position. Speaking of someone who I think is good at that, by the way, he had an agency, sold it for a bunch of money, got out of that business, and then decides to go partner and do it again with VaynerSports.

AJ's a stud. I've heard so many things about AJ. But why Gary V Mhm. and why AJ? Like what what do they bring as we kind of turn the corner into like modern business, the modern athlete? What did they bring that you thought could benefit you as opposed to just going out on your own? Yeah. Yeah, so you referenced that I had another agency that had a lot of success. And I admitted to you last night I think I sold too early. Too early, yep. Yeah, I sold too early and ended up in business with partners I wouldn't have chosen under normal circumstances.

Um so when I was on my own and being approached with lots of different opportunities, wasn't interested in joining like a big agency. I'm more entrepreneurial. Um I was interested in in creating something and I had a really clear vision, right? I felt like I did a really good job at my last agency at educating athletes, which I think is not that common unfortunately in the sports agent world. I did an excellent job at negotiating amazing contracts. Um how many athletes total you think you've repped?

Oh man. Just to give them an idea cuz cuz it's every sport. It's UFC, it's NFL, it's it's MLB. I think you leaned MLB, but just in just to give them some context of how many athletes roughly. Yeah, over 22 years it's got to be uh 2 3,000 maybe. Okay, bro. So when I say he's the expert at negotiating and and communication, I'm not being nice to my childhood best friend. Okay, so keep going. Why them? You you'd done it. You wanted to be entrepreneurial. So my my focus was I wanted to have I want to create the best agency in the world.

And in order for it to be that for me, it needed to offer everything an agent needs. Um not necessarily limited to what I do as a sports lawyer, veteran sports agent, but everything that I viewed as being necessary. Um it had to be authentic. Meaning it can't be like a lot of agencies where they sell a lot of glitz and glamour and they don't really deliver, right? It's smoke and mirrors. I know that. Uh yeah. In my own way. So I it authenticity, best in class, these things were really important.

And then really important to me too was I wanted to be in business with really good people who I respect. Uh and who are not just extremely talented but people who I respect and people I want to be around. You know, I'm fortunate like I get to make decisions professionally where I just follow my passions. Yeah. And for me that was important and you know, so I started first with Tom Hicks as my partner. The late great Tom Hicks, rest his soul. And Owner of the Rangers.

And many other things. Dallas Stars, Liverpool, etc. Just a wonderful man. Yeah. Um A great mentor as well. Well. And I started just creating a foundation of what I wanted the agency to look like, what I what I thought it could be and and what it needed to be really to be the best. And then I had the good fortune of being introduced to AJ Vaynerchuk, Gary Vaynerchuk at the Super Bowl in Miami in 2020. Okay. And you know, I didn't know really much about Gary Vee, the whole thing, you know, it's not my area wasn't my area of specialty.

I know a lot more about it now because of because of my great partners. And I was blown away. So I looked at a lot of stuff on social media, all that and I had an expectation going into meet with them and it was not at all what I expected. What I what I was met with were truly wonderful caring people. Extremely passionate about sports. Extremely savvy in business. And just this this tremendous drive and energy. Okay. I thought you were going to say their digital presence.

The digital presence was huge. That's that's why I took the meeting but what I got was so much more. Got it. Okay. I got re just really sophisticated business people who had a real strong passion and just really good people. So we vibed. We vibed hard at this, hit it off, you know, to steal Gary's expression. With us it was 1 + 1 = 11. Yeah. Right? You have my background doing billions of dollars in contracts, you know, law professor, sports law professor. All of that and then you have this amazing empire that Gary and AJ had built.

That offered so much to athletes in terms of uh social media presence, branding, um, marketing advice, partnership, entrepreneurship, all of these things. And what they had that I shared as well was a desire really to teach first and foremost with our client base. Meaning the athletes actually learn something that they can carry with them the rest of their life and not just do deals. When I when I meet, you know, in a recruiting meeting with an athlete, I said, you know, "I'm not for everyone." Right?

I'm not going to let you just sit in the back seat. Like, I'm here to teach you. Right? In my opinion, when you look back on your career, you're only going to be satisfied if you feel like you made the best decisions and you can only do that if you're informed. There's a lesson there. I want to stay on that. I don't think enough um business people position themselves as a teacher. Yeah. I mean that like I'm talking about regardless of industry. Like, it's something that maybe was in the water when we grew up, but like I've used that I first off, I consider myself a learner, number one.

I'm still learning and I'm curious. But like for me in business, I I over the years, it was always trying to transfer information and skill to people. And I like I'm not people, "Why can't I scale my business?" Right. It's cuz you're not a teacher. You're a motivator. You inspire people. You could even get stuff done, but you don't teach. And so because of the fact that you don't think of yourself as a teacher, you're never transferring enough information or skills or belief to scale anything.

So, it's a huge lesson, bro, what you just said. Like, it's amazing we both landed in the same spot on that because I do it to scale and bring value, but you're doing it really that this athlete cuz so many athletes end up broke when their career's over, right? You're doing it so this dude leaves you as Jay-Z would say, a businessman. Right? Like, the it's it's they're just not athletes who have done deals. Let me ask you this cuz I've just like personally want to know this.

What have you learned from the Did you say Tom Hicks earlier, right? Like, you're you've been this guy I know where you grew up, so neither one of us was prepared to walk in a room and talk to billionaires about parting with hundreds of millions of dollars, right? So, like someone right now is going, "Man, I'd love to be able to close this sale I'm working on a house." And that's a big deal. You're going in to a billionaire or a group of people and saying, "You are going to part with Let's just take MLB for a minute.

Manny Ramirez is one of your clients, right? We could name a bunch of them, but let's just stick You're going to part with hundreds [snorts] of millions of dollars and you're going back to these same owners collectively over time getting to part with a billions of dollars at some point. What What do you know about those people that we should know? Like how do they think? How do they operate differently than us? When you're around Are they all just very different people? So, we're all trying to feel healthier, right?

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I think they've gotten to that position for a couple things, for a couple of reasons rather. One reason is they're not afraid to take a chance, right? They've gotten to that position in life because they're able to recognize opportunities and not being afraid to take the risk necessary to see it to fruition. So, that's an important step. Sounds familiar with you with going into the sports business, but go on. 100%. And so, and they are deal makers. Okay. And then the other thing to keep in mind is they didn't end up in that position because they weren't hugely passionate about sports and in particular the sport of the team they're leading.

Mhm. And so, it's critically important to understand those things. And as we talked about earlier, critically important to approach it um from a position of expertise and as a deal maker. Mhm. You know, I'm trying to create a win-win. How does somebody who cuz by the way, I did that too. I got young. You know that my first business I was in the financial business. Yes. And I was young. And I remember thinking, if I don't address the fact that I'm young, why would people give me their money to invest or buy insurance?

And so, it's so crazy that we landed in the same conclusions even though we parted ways. And I remember thinking, I have to just frankly be better at this than everybody else. I have to almost be like a prodigy. I've got to position myself when I walk in this room Yes. as an expert. And I would actually flip the fact that I was young to my advantage. I would tell them, "Look, I know I'm probably younger than the last guy that was in here. And so, because I know that coming in, I've done my homework a hundred times more than them.

I've dug deeper." So, just give someone advice in general, whatever how important it is it to position yourself and actually truly become an expert at what you do to separate yourself from all of the marketplace, all of the noise out there. That you you're right on the money. And you similarly, whether it was a trial lawyer at 29 years old, Yeah. you know, in court, you don't see many of those. Right. Right. Right. Right. And I had a great mentor who who taught me how to really lean into the judge, lean into people, be overly humble, but at the same time demonstrate a higher level of preparation and expertise than everybody else.

But differential at the same time. Remember his advice was let the judge feel like he's mentoring you. Otherwise, [clears throat] he'll be kind of put off by the fact that this young kid is in here thinking he's the smartest guy in the courtroom. And I think that was true early in my career as an agent as well. So, as you said, it's I need to be the expert. I need to I'm going to have to prove myself above and beyond. I can't just rely on, you know, I've been doing this for 20 year 30 years.

Like you hear that all the time, that refrain. Which by the way, don't ever do that, no matter how much experience you have. If you got to sell yourself by basing it on how long you've been doing it, come up with better arguments. But yeah, you've got you've got to be the expert. And that only comes through actually putting in the work. Right? And you know, go back to you and I and you know, the discipline, you know, you instilled in me and that maybe we helped each other with, I think that was critical.

Yeah, I do too. Do you think um these these athletes when they come in and they see you, what makes a UFC fighter choose you? Because the reason I say this is to everyone out you're probably listening to this is selling something, right? And so the separator with the athlete, I get the separator with the owner. But now the athlete, cuz I know what it's like even in my business. I get I've had We were talking last night. I've been with the two big agencies out there and I get pitched by agents often to do different things.

And so I'm you're not the only rodeo. How does someone separate themselves with like like one of the athletes or a client? Is it your expertise level or are you working on building rapport with them and connecting, knowing their mom's name, knowing Is it a whole package of stuff? How do you do it? It is all of the above. Right? And whether it's a UFC athlete, a baseball athlete, a football athlete, a pro surfer, we're trying to do those things. Right? This this relationship you have with an agent athlete, this is incredibly personal.

You know, you're creating a real deep relationship and a bond that's probably going to last decades. And it's probably going to be very expansive over many facets and aspects of their life. I think as an initial matter, you want to cover the nuts and bolts, which is I'm going to educate you on how to be a professional athlete, how to be a business person, how to manage your brand, how deals work, how they're negotiated, what are the rules of your sports, the CBA. I'm going to make you an expert on this, not because I need you to do anything.

I'm going to execute and I'm going to have strong opinions. You and I are going to be partners together and make decisions together. Partners. Yes, and I want to make it very clear at the first meeting that you are going to be in the best hands when it comes to negotiating your contracts, setting a business plan for the course of your career, and then with all the resources we have at Vayner with Gary and AJ at amazing entrepreneurial advice, helping you with your brand, finding the right business partners.

And our goal here is to be real partners with our athletes. And I mean that not just in terms of our partnership player agent relationship and negotiating deals, but also we want to be business partners together. We want to find I want I want every one of our athletes to be able to take advantage of this magical short period of their life where they have access to incredible opportunities. I want to help you identify those. I want to use our team to put your brand in a position where you're going to be attractive to the things that you're attracted to and then find ways to be owners of companies together.

See, I think the fact that you position yourself as a teacher is an unspoken way of saying I'm an expert. And I don't think enough sales people, negotiators, marketing people assume the position of teacher. Because when you do that, you've essentially without having to tell me, told me you're an expert. I'm going to teach you some things. We're partners in this. Like this this vernacular, this language has nothing to do with baseball. It has nothing to do with just negotiating baseball contracts. It has everything to do with connecting with people and separating yourself in the market in what you do, whether you're a realtor or you own a dry cleaners or you're selling protein supplements.

When you teach people, like my business partner Andy Frasella has the I believe the best supplement brand in the world. It's called First Form. They're a behemoth. Yeah. They spend most of their time, bro, teaching you different things about what to put in your body and how to They already assume they're the best. They assume they're the expert. Not enough of you are What happens when you listen to podcast, you guys? Someone's in a particular industry. Your job is to pull out the things that apply to you.

Then there's another thing that applies with you, Greg, that I really want you to talk about because I've bragged on you so much, right? But I want you to talk about Life has not been that easy along the way for you either. And you've been public about this a little bit. And I want to address it because I want to give people hope cuz there's People people delete themselves easy in life. They they eliminate themselves. They think they're disqualified. Man, I just went through a divorce.

So I'm I'm toast. Or you know what? I got this thing I'm doing on the side that I know I shouldn't be doing. I'm never going to be successful. Whatever it is. Mhm. In your case, you said earlier, we kind of started to part ways as you saw it, and I'll take your word for it. Maybe you started to like the party life a little bit. Yes. And I was afraid of that life because of what it did to my dad. Right. You came from a normal, well-adjusted house.

Your dad's the best. And Carol, who just passed away, rest her soul, was such a wonderful woman and so important in my life, by the way. So important in my life. And very important for some years there. Woo. Um And I we part we parted ways. And uh And then but that process for you over the time, this is what I want you to be hearing if you're listening. Okay, guys? You you begin to have tremendous success in your life in spite of this thing that's kind of growing on the side, which is your your dealings with alcohol.

Yes. And so, this is what most people don't understand. You can have an issue with something and still be succeeding in spite of it. I used to think, my dad's not an alcoholic. He's not on the streets. Right. up every day and went to work. He produced every single day. Addiction in life, you can still be winning in spite of it. So, you would you were becoming what I would call like a highly functional I think safe to say alcoholic at some point in your life.

You had to make a very difficult decision you've been public about. And I the reason I want you to share it is a lot of times in life, the next level of life is not some key you don't have. It's not an addition. It's actually subtraction. It's taking away something from your game that's holding you back. It's thoughts. It's scrolling Instagram. It's gambling. It's porn. It's drinking. It's whatever it is. And in your case, you were winning to a certain point having a certain level of happiness, but on the side, this alcohol thing was starting to get the better of you.

What made you make the decision to stop and then what did it do for you? Yeah, I you know, I had a long relationship with alcohol. Began in high school. Had a wonderful time. You know, for the most of this journey, it was wonderful. It was fun. Uh for all the reasons people like to drink, enjoy themselves, have a good time. Uh but for me, it didn't stop in high school. You know, it didn't stop in college. Didn't stop in law school. Didn't stop as a trial attorney.

So, it was part of my life that just continued, right? And you know, I continued to have success at what I wanted to do, whether it was trying cases, winning cases, you know, graduating from law school, uh doing triathlons. I was able to kind of do it all at the same time. And you know, have a drinking life as well. And it's something that kind of worked until it didn't. Mhm. You know, as I got a little bit older, I realized that it was competing for my attention with the things that really mattered.

Wow. You know, and and I knew I knew that life was bigger and better Mhm. than that. Mhm. And I I also was really focused on continuing to get better as a person. And I didn't know that I could do that with the bondage of, you know, a habit of drinking or, you know, whatever it was. And it became clear to me for health reasons, all kinds of reasons, um to be a better father, to really just to be be better in life, you know, engage and to continue to progress.

I I wanted to be somebody who got better as I got older. Mhm. And I didn't think that was going to be possible if I continued drinking, and I realized I needed to put an end to How long's it been? Nine? Nine years. Congratulations. Thank you. That's super cool, man. I'm really proud of you. And the reason I wanted you to touch on it cuz I'm I've noticed not something you want to talk about all the time is there's someone listening right now. There's more than someone.

Yeah. And the next level of their life is not adding some new tactic or strategy. It's like, "Hey, you know what it is." Whatever it is. I think if you're listening or watching right now, you know what it is. That's the thing you're doing that no longer serves you. It doesn't serve you anymore. It doesn't belong in your life anymore. And there's the next level of your life is getting rid of that thing. Maybe it's a relationship. Maybe it's a person. Maybe it's a pattern of behavior.

Maybe it's an addiction, but that next level is it's elimination, not addition. And that's why I wanted you to to talk about it. So, I'm appreciate that you did. No, uh very happy to. And yeah, I would I would say that to anybody out there dealing with any sort of addiction. It's absolutely something you can address. It's absolutely something you can change. It's not easy, you know, and it's not easy for a lot of people. And I'm not going to say it was super easy for me.

It wasn't. Um but there is such a better life around the corner if you're able to deal with it. And I'm a big believer of hitting things head-on. Yeah, you are. You you uh The other thing about you that's different than when we were kids, and I want you to talk about this part of your life cuz I think success leaves clues. Like I think there are just things people do and maybe even some of them make a lot of athletes do them unconsciously. They don't even aware of why they're great.

They're just great. But [snorts] in your case what you weren't when we were kids, we're both I think we both had this we're both we were a little insecure. Like we weren't like the most popular confident stud dudes. Yet we were in the middle somewhere, right? I would say. But you're intense now, bro. Like there's an intensity to you. I told you at dinner last time. I'm like, "Bro, you're wound up. You're intense, right?" And so I think a lot of times you have to know your tendency in life.

My tendency is not to I'm not going to be the guy you got to worry about who's not showing up to work. Right. Who's going to relax, who's going to flinch. That's not my thing. Now some people, they have to be keep prodded and pushed. That ain't me, that ain't you. My challenge is turning it off. My challenge is recuperation, rest, etc. We're talking last night. We both reached the same place also in our meditation life. Yeah. Right? And so tell them about why that's been so important.

The part of your life where you empty your mind because your mind's racing all the time. You're brilliant, you got cases, you got deals you're negotiating. So part of your this the clues your success has left is your meditation practice. Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, and you know, it goes hand in hand with when I quit drinking. Really? It goes hand in hand. I wanted to evolve as a person. So I leaned into the things that didn't seem comfortable to me. Yoga, meditation, um spirituality, relationship with God.

These these things that I kind of avoided in the other life. I realized that that was my answer. Right? That that that was my evolution. So I really leaned into it and it took a while, but I think I mentioned this to you last night. After a few months I was surfing on Kauai in Hanalei Bay. Mhm. And I had not had a drink in I don't know, 3 months. And I just realized that I was elated. I was with my son in the water. We realized we'd been in the water for 5 hours.

Wow. And I was like, when was the last time in my life that I was so engaged in a passion that I just lost track of time and in pure enjoyment. And I was like, I remember us playing whiffle ball in the backyard for 8 hours straight, things like that. I realized I hadn't really had true enjoyment like that since I was a kid. And that was kind of my spiritual awakening, you know, right there in beautiful Hanalei Bay. Um and I realized I was on the right path.

So I've I've really stayed committed Yeah. uh to my path in meditation and yoga. And I know you and I share the meditation thing. Yeah. You know, I meditate at least twice a day. Every day. 4 hours? That was during one period of time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But, you know, usually it's two meditations a day, you know, more 30 to 40 minutes. And also your practice you have stuff outside of business like surfing. Yes. Tell Tell them what that does for you and then how many surf trips you do a year.

Yeah, no, I'm really passionate about surfing. I love it. And I love the fact it's something I get to do with my kids who both love it, too. And we're getting ready to go to another surf trip to Fiji. I'm really excited about it in a couple of weeks. Um but I've For For me, surfing is meditation. Right? It's one of those really pure practices. I mean, not only are you in nature, you're you're in the ocean. Mhm. Um you're you're in What I would say is our natural element.

You know, we're there in it and a part of it, which is I think so key. Um but in addition, I mean, the essence of the sport is trying to get in touch with that energy that's flowing through the water. Right? It's energy flowing through the water creating the wave. And the whole point of it is to get in sync with that energy and be able to ride the wave. And that's what I love about it is you can only do about it You can only do it when you're in flow state.

Mhm. Right? You can only get in sync with that energy when your mind is clear. Yeah. And I can tell you every time I can tell you what I'm thinking about when I'm trying to catch a wave, I wiped out. Which happens to me a lot, by the way. Um and then every time I have a great ride, I can't tell you anything that was in my head. I can only tell you what I saw. That's awesome. And so that's why I love the sport so much.

Yeah. You The reason I pointed out is two guys, you got to have something that you love outside of your passion of your of your business. You got to have something that empties your mind, that fills your cup as you're pouring into people all the time. For him, it's meditation and surfing and his family. And for me, I don't have the surfing thing. It My surfing's golf. You know, he's better at surfing than I am golf, but it's my And when I'm playing great golf, I ain't thinking about swing thoughts.

Exactly what you said. I'm actually in flow. I'm just executing. Tell some of a little bit about we we I would be in big trouble if I have the best sports agent in the world and I don't talk about the current state of sports, right? So I'm uh you know that I'm on the board of the National Football Foundation. So I'm involved in college sports quite a bit now. That whole world, bro, has completely changed. So I just want your overall like, what do you think of this whole First off, are these guys now all Is is branding super important for every young person to be paying attention to whether an athlete or not?

And how do you feel about this like name, image, and likeness stuff? All of the wild west that's happening. Is it net net good? I'm sure as an agent you like it and and where's it going to go and what needs to happen? I think it's great. Okay. I think it's wonderful. And you know, I've been teaching sports law for 10 years. And watching the progression of getting towards freedom, you know, opening up for NIL, paper play, all the things that are happening for amateur athletes.

And you know, from a legal standpoint, it was clear it was going to happen. You know, the the policy the NCAA had in place was just illegal, right? And they suffered loss after loss in the courts. And it was heading towards this conclusion, which I think is the right conclusion from a legal standpoint. I also think it's the right conclusion just kind of from a a business capitalist standpoint. I think it's absolutely absurd to think that athletes who contribute such tremendous value to these billion-dollar industries can't participate in the financial windfall of these industries is absurd.

I don't know how as a society we ever got to a point in thinking that was okay cuz it's not okay. Right. It's just not okay. Okay. Um but I think perhaps and I mentioned this to you last night, I think perhaps one of the greatest benefits that comes out of opening this up for for NIL is it also got rid of the NCAA restrictions that legislated out the truly ethical sports lawyers and agents from servicing these young athletes who really need competent representation. And we saw with [clears throat] all the restrictions that the NCAA had in the past it created a void.

That void got filled, right? It got filled by people who weren't qualified, who weren't scrupulous, who were self-serving, and who hurt players. Like you see like the Reggie Bush example and there's several of them. Terrible ones. And I'm hoping we don't see those ever again now. And the reason why is because now a young athlete who has real business on their plate is able to get in touch with Banner Sports, AJ Vaynerchuk, Mike McCartney, myself, or other competent agents at other agencies and really get educated, get great advice, help develop a business plan, help evaluate different opportunities available in college, what it's going to look like professionally.

And I think that is invaluable. It's that that's you know, it's kind of it's why it's in the constitution, a right to representation. Okay. What about So, now that we're let me let me ask you the hard question. They are though supposed to be student athletes. Correct. Okay. So, my rub my rub is not that guys get paid and ladies get paid. I want them to be paid. I think it's great. I think if I built a brand and I was a 19-year-old and I decided I was going to be a professional surfer or a realtor and I can make money with that brand, I should make money with that brand.

1,000% But, they are student athletes, and so my my rub on it is it's gone like crazy wild west, meaning as I understand it, and I'm sure I misunderstand some of it, but as I understand it, they can freely move whenever [snorts] and wherever they want, even an NBA player or an MLB player. You're negotiating them a contract. They got to be where they are for two or three or four or five years, right? Whereas the college guys, it seems like they can just leave, right?

And then I'm thinking, well, is that fair the other way to the institution who pours in resources and into them, and they can just bail? And is it fair that this kid I I know how credits transfer. Is anybody going to graduate if they're at four schools in four years playing football, right? And so, what about that part of it? Like, I know I understand why you like the part you like, and I do, too. And I'd like it even more if I were in your business so I could participate in it.

But, like, what about that part of them also so or should we just say, "Hey, look, some of these guys aren't students. They're just not." Like, but they are going to college, right? They are at a university. So, should they in your I know where you're not going to answer this, but I'm going to make you try. Should we at least eventually land in the middle where you have to stay and honor your time at the school for some period or there's a consequence if you don't?

Right. What do you think of that, Mr. sports agent? Well, I think you raise a lot of great points. Oh, here we go. Right. The first point that that you raise [clears throat] and I'll bring up is like, are they athletes or are they not athletes? Um, I think we we we broached that question long before NIL opened up, frankly, right? With with practices at a lot of the top athletic universities would cause you to ask that question, frankly, before NIL popped up. I agree. Right.

Like, I don't know that this has worsened the problem that that players are that players get paid now and are able to do NIL marketing or pay for play. So, that's my first my first contention with it. I don't know that it really changed that aspect. It's always been the struggle, like, what's more important, the athletics or the academic? I I agree with you. I want to live in a world where they're both equally important. Where both things are available. That's the first point. The other point, you know, the free mobility of players.

Which as an agent I always love free mobility. I love free markets. I love open markets. I love leverage. You know, I'm not going to lie, right? But I think that observation should be focused on the fact that this is still pretty new. I would also say that I don't think we've seen players getting their share of the revenue that we're going to see them get. I think you're going to see amateur players making more money. I I still think that it's a system that's in progress and trying to be figured out.

And a lot of the conferences are trying to formalize it, figure it out. And I think as that happens, we'll start seeing things like a collective bargaining agreement, you know, that we see in the NFL. I think we'll see that. Yeah, I think you need an operating agreement to kind of keep the institutions honest among one another and have a fair system between them and the players. I think we end up with that and it probably ends up with a system where there are contracts for periods of years like you see in in pro sports as well.

So I think we get there. We're just not there yet. We're still kind of in the wild west, I would say. Okay. I hope we get there sooner than later because I I again, I'm great with them making money. I want them to make money. I think it's crazy that they wouldn't make money. I just also think if you're a student I My debate isn't whether or not they're athletes. My debate is whether these guys are students anymore. When I say guys, I'm also talking about female sports, too.

I mean people when I say that. All right. We don't have that much more time left. By the way, this has been good. We've been all over the place today, which is really really good like I knew we would. If you could go back and there's these two kids in a backyard playing wiffle ball and there's little Ed Mylett there, little Gray Ginski there and you could give advice to those kids that are now today doing it. So there's an Ed Mylett in someone's backyard with his best friend right now doing something, playing catch or whatever.

Yeah. And they're a little 10 11-year-old little kid, boy or girl. And they said, "Well, you're sitting next to your childhood buddy, and it turned out good for the two of you. Yeah. What advice would you speak into the lives of those two young people right now? Just overall advice, or counsel, or a message to them? What would you say to them? I think there's a couple of things that you and I are great examples of, and our friendship at that young age is a great example of, which is follow your passion.

We both followed our passions. We really, really did. Yeah, we did. Know what you're good at. Oh god. Know what you're good at, know what your strengths are, know what you can contribute to other people. Mhm. Something you and I also do. Mhm. Uh we draw the intrinsic value in our work based on how we impact other people's lives. Mhm. Mhm. Critically important. And then the other thing you and I um had you taught me more, and I had with you, and then later in my life, is uh stay disciplined.

Mhm. Nothing comes without the work. Mhm. Mhm. That's like the perfect answer, by the way. I think I would give the identical answer. I think the second one's the one people miss. I think people go, "Yeah, follow something you're passionate about." I don't think enough people find something they're good at. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think most people do enough self-analysis, and are aware enough of like Like, I got I'm so fortunate, cuz I don't know that I intentionally did it. Right.

I You did. I think I more stumbled Like, I failed out of baseball is really what happened, right? And then I'm like, "Right. of a baseball player, Ed. Yeah, but I wasn't I'm not like the guys you represent. But, thank you for that. But, then I was like, I I then stumbled into like, "Okay, what am I good at?" I am good at communicating. Right. God gave me a nice deep voice to use, right? Like, I'm intense. I need something that has an element of competition in it.

And I think you nailed it there with all of them. Like, I I would say that's what the two of us have in common is that you've also we've taken advantage of what we're pretty good at doing. Would you agree? 100% Yeah. You I said this when I started man like this is a very surreal last night dinner was surreal for me. You know what I mean? Even when I got back I was like wow it was it was like a dream almost like it's very rare.

I want you to imagine this you guys you're so close when you're little and you kind of go a different direction. And then independent he becomes what he's become. And then you know I've done okay too. It's just it's such a great life story of what you've become and I'm really proud of you. I mean that bro like Thank you. Thank you. I'm really proud of you. You know what I'm most proud of? Thank you. After getting reconnected with you you're who I'd hoped you were going to be when we were little boys as a man.

You're you're a good son to your parents man and you're a wonderful dad. And I see you getting a little I that's who I hoped you would be when we were little boys and you've grown into that and I'm Well that that means more to me than you'll know and Thanks man. I'm really proud of who you are Thank you bro. Thank you. Well you watched us a little have a reunion here today. I hope you all enjoyed it. I told you it'd be a podcast like you've never heard before.

Um where should they find you? Where do you want them to find you? Online? Yeah online Instagram VaynerSports And Greg Gensky on social right? Yeah @greggensky Okay. Yeah. He's growing his little social you guys. I put a post out about him last night I'm sure he picked up like three followers so I'm excited for you. Thank you for that. Yeah absolutely. Anyway you guys today was one of the most special podcasts I'd ever had chance to do and I appreciate spending the time. I hope you got inspired.

I hope you pulled lessons from it. I hope you follow Greg. And reconnect with your childhood friends if you've lost cases lost touch as well because it's even better than you could imagine. Reach out to somebody you love today. God bless you. Max out. Oh.

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