How to Lift Weights With Bad Joints (5 Things That Actually Help) | Mind Pump 2981

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Send your name into iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. Real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. You want to strength train. You want to build muscle. You want to get stronger. But here's the problem. Your knees hurt. Your shoulders hurt. Your hips hurt. You got bad joints. What do you do? We're going to talk about that today. Five things to do. One thing to not do, to lift with bad joints. Looks like this is shots across the bow right here. Shots fired, guys. I would say- A little lift being an old man. Catching strays over here. So this came up for me because I have a friend that just reached out. Actually, not a friend of mine. A friend of my wife's reached out because she has, you know, quote unquote, bad knees. And she wants to exercise, but she's avoiding strength training because she has bad knees. And this is still something that circulates where people are afraid to do certain forms of exercise, in particular strength training, because their joints hurt. Now, I do want to say this before we get into it. Of all forms of exercise, strength training is actually the best for joint health when done properly. It's very modifiable. It's modifiable. You can adjust the intensity, the range of motion, all those things to consider. But that's really what's going to help absolve the pain of the knees. Yes. Yes. 100%. Also, through proper strength training, you know that you build muscle. You also build tendon and ligament strength, and you also build your joints. So what you find with people who do proper strength training, proper, meaning good technique could form. They're not pushing to absolute extremes with, you know, crazy amounts of weight or whatever. You actually find her healthier joints as a result. So it's very good for you, but there are things to pay attention to. And there are factors that can help you if this is you. If you're listening, like, yeah, that's great, but right now my knees hurt, and I can't do lower body exercises, then these things will help you. Well, what percentage of clients would you say are due to weakness and instability, like lack of muscle? Like most of my clients that had, quote unquote, bad joints, what was exactly that was we had poor movement patterns. We were weak and unstable. And so then the joints end up taking over the stress. Yeah. And so, I mean, what percentage do you think that's, like, when you hear this, how often is it related? I mean, obviously if you have something like rheumatoid arthritis or, you know, an autoimmune disease like that, that is directly impacting it, or like my psoriasis, one that we were talking about earlier, you and I off air, like there's some things that like you could be, that you could have that's like- Or acute injury of some sort. Right, or an acute injury. But other than that, it's like almost always lack of muscle stability and strength that's causing these bad joints. So this gets confusing because people will get imaging done and they'll say, I have no cartilage in my knee, or it's bone on bone. How many times have you heard that, right? Yep, yep, yep. So this is oftentimes a result. Now you can have an acute injury, but that's different, right? That's like you hurt yourself. You fell or got hit by a car. Or someone got fully torn. But when your joint starts to degrade over time, because the muscles that operate around the joint, the muscles that move that joint are moving that joint in a way that is not good. Okay. So, and I've used this analogy before and I like it because I think it illustrates it well. It's like you have a sliding glass door and it's on a track. If it fits on the track perfectly and the track is lubricated and you move it back and forth, there's not going to be any damage on that track. Especially if the track can regenerate, like your joints can't. This is what your joints can do. But if I, if I push the door as I slide it, or it's off the track just a little bit, over time, the tracks starts to get degraded. This is what happens to like your knee. Like if your quadriceps, hamstrings, if you've got ankle, you know, mobility issues, hip mobility issues, the knee starts to support itself and its movement in ways that it really is suboptimal. Instead of the muscles like they're supposed to. That's usually a bad recruitment process. If moving properly, the muscles support this. And so, you know, when you, in other words, weakness and instability. And so to avoid it because you have, is like the worst thing you could do. You know, it doesn't mean you don't modify exercises. Doesn't mean I don't take a client who's just has, you know, like you said, their knees are like completely bone on bone. I'm like, hey, let's go do heavy squats today. Or jump. First day, yeah, or do explosive jumps. It's like, no, we're going to regress the movements, but absolutely we want to build the quads and hamstrings and the calves and all the muscles that are around the knee that support that joint. So now that they now could, I mean, one of the biggest lessons I had in this personally was tearing my ACL, my MCL and, you know, and, but still being able to walk and, and the, and, and be kind of stable. Like, I mean, I told you, I almost went back in the basketball game. Like that's how I know there was something like missing. There was obviously something wrong. But I mean, I felt okay enough that I thought I could go play now the next day when it was swollen and in pain and all the things kicked in. But I remember the doctor explaining that to me. It's like, oh, it's because of all the muscle that you've developed around the knee. They were, they are holding it into place and it's not putting so much stress on the ligaments. If you didn't have that, he goes, my clients that don't are like your knees all over the place. Someone can't even walk right away after having something like that. It's like, okay, that really explains that. One of the clearest examples when I had a client where I was like, okay, this is really, this is a movement pattern issue. This is a strengthening issue because they got knee replacement surgery and this was like, you know, they, they had, you know, dysfunction and, and you know, they had a long time where their knees were, were definitely affected and needed, you know, needed some attention, but then went right, right for the knee replacement surgery, came back and you know, we worked through that. But, um, you know, getting to the core of it, they were already starting to get wear and tear again. Yes. And so this is just something that like, you know, to get to the, to the root of it was everything. Now we have to like, uh, focus on, you know, getting it to track properly. I've had several clients that didn't get the replacement surgery that they were going to get. Cause they hired me, they had pain in the joint. The procedure was all but scheduled. And the idea was to strengthen before getting the surgery. And then they didn't need to get the surgery anymore. Not saying that there aren't cases, obviously that that's always the case. That's ideal. I have that experience. So, all right. So here's some things you can do in your workout to be able to strength train right now while your joints hurt. So number one is use isometrics. So isometrics, uh, actually in the moment reduce pain significantly. It's an, it has an analgesic property. Now there's a couple of things that it does, uh, that are, that are outside of that, which is helps activate the muscles you're trying to activate. And there's no movement. So an isometric is just a, a stable muscle contraction, a muscle contraction where I'm not extending or flexing my knee. I'm pushing against something that's not moving, or I'm just squeezing my quadricep. Now the data also shows a dramatic reduction in pain right out the gates. In fact, I could show somebody oftentimes I got knee pain. I'll put them on a leg extension, have them hold the thing up at the top almost immediate. And then they'll come down and be like, my knee feels a lot better. It's it. I like to look at it as like, it's a really loud signal of stability and you're just, you're providing that feedback, uh, immediately back. And you're not actually going through any range of motion. Yes. So an isometric would be like, uh, we'll use the knee as an example. I could get on a leg extension machine, bring the weight all the way up and then just hold it and really squeeze my quads or set so much weight on the stack that I can't lift it and push into the pad. And that's an isometric. You could do this with your shoulders where you push up against the wall, or I hold something heavy above my head and just hold it there for a second. You can do this with every joint where you do an isometric. And what you'll see is, is, and the data will support this between the 30 to 60% reduction of pain right away and an increase in stability and you're strengthening the joint and the muscle and there's no movement. So the, the risk of injury, uh, is really, really low. I, this is, uh, I've always known this as a trainer, but feeling it for myself has been, has been a wild experience. You know, my, my knees and my hips before, uh, I go into squatting, deadlifting, I've told you guys now it's been several months now. I want to say it's been probably six months, pretty consistent with when I train lower body, my go-to move now is that isometric lunge position. And it like it totally, any sort of like knee kind of pain or hip pain I was dealing with, like pre going into the lift gone, gone like immediately. I have to do probably two or three sets of it. Some good hard isometrics for like 30 seconds on each side, but boy, after I do that and I get up and I kind of move around and walk around, getting right into squats feels amazing, which is what in replace of that, I used to do my combat stretch and my 90 nineties. And I do Miguel planes. I do some things like that to like really tube walking. I do like quite a few things to like really kind of prime my hips and quads and cat and my ankles and everything to get myself ready where, man, I can get down in that, that isometric lunge and just drive into the floor and hold that position 30 seconds on each side, do two to three sets of that. And man, it just, any sort of that I have gone. This was a secret weapon for me when I was a trainer, because when somebody would come inquire about personal training, I knew if I could show them pain relief right away, it is, and I can't show you weight loss right away. I can't show you muscle gain right away, but I can show you pain relief right away. And I knew if I could do that, they would automatically see my value. And it was, it was always like, like, Oh, what? My knee doesn't hurt anymore. I'm hiring you. That was my secret weapon. Yep. Here's the next thing. Use a slow tempo. So a slow tempo allows you to move through the motion or the exercise in a way that reduces any potential. Risk of injury because you're not moving quickly. Mm-hmm. It's also similar to an isometric because the movement is very slow And I'm focusing on stabilizing the entire time slow is good for joint pain fast as bad For joint well that you then you can really pay attention to where you waver or you lose that stability So it's like these little micro adjustments, especially in your big compound lifts To do that with a really slow temple is very beneficial. So this is what my first set to two sets of Benchpress dumbbell bench press looks like right now, especially with the pec tear and the stuff I've dealt with in my shoulders is I I will actually go really slow temple and then I'll do an isometric hold of with the dumbbells at the bottom And that's like my first set or two is like that and man after doing that I feel so warmed up in the shoulders just everything that then I could be pressing right afterwards And so yeah, I think the combination of the two of them and then back to the knees hips things I was talking about I'll do those isometrics to start squats and then my first set of squats is that is a very slow Tempo pause at the bottom come back up and then by that second set man. I'm good to go I remember when I had my shoulder surgeries a long time ago. I had my AC joint Resected and I rehabbed it so quick I remember the doctor and the nurses were like tripping out But I knew what I was doing especially with the shoulder And one thing I would do is when I would do an overhead movement and I'd use weight because remember I just like post-surgery I'd move my arm up real slow, but the slowness allowed me to adjust So I didn't feel pain so I'd feel that hurts a little bit and I'd retract my scapula move a little bit Oh, there it is. Yep really slow Range of motion full extension full contraction then I add a little bit of weight and it rehab my shoulder So quick and I tried to move quickly would have been a bad idea Slow tempo when you have knee pain or joint pain or back pain or hip pain is the way to go with your strength training Next is shorten your range of motion But challenge your range of motion. What does that mean? What does that mean shortened but challenged? So this is what you do move within the range of motion that you don't have pain, but go to the edge Yep, go to the edge. So you were that line is that's right So if I'm doing a squat and I'm like, okay, it doesn't hurt doesn't hurt doesn't hurt. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good Oh right there. I start to feel knee pain. That's the end of your range of motion And play with that egg off just a little bit and you hold and squeeze that's it And you play with that edge within the range of motion that you're training Here's what you'll find as the workout progresses within the workout itself Your range of motion will actually grow so you actually be able to get deeper and deeper in your squat for example and over time your range of motion grows and it grows in a way that is Sustainable. This is like, you know strength training for bad joints one-on-one right here Play with the range of motion and challenge the ring I mean all it's all three of these combined right and just to use my analogy of the squatting and the ventral because I do All these things we're talking about in that warm-up set of what I said. I'd slow the tempo down. I'm doing that, right? So I slow it down and it's like, okay There's where it is and then I'm gonna hold that kind of isometric then I press that when I come back down again I'm gonna try and see if I can get a little bit more right thing And so you're just kind of doing that through the whole Warming up process is I'm using that slow tempo I'm using the isometrics trying to gain a little bit more range of motion and then again once you go to that next set That's more of a working set man. You feel good and prime ready to go totally and I just want to add this I mean all of us train people for a long time a lot of our clients I'd say a majority of my clients came in with some form of joint pain Like the things that we're talking about here you combine it with correctional exercise. My success rate was like 90% So I just want people to know like there are Like most people listening right now if you have chronic pain and you do this, right? You're probably gonna come out a lot better Oftentimes with no pain many times with far less pain. So there's definitely light at the end of the time well, this is I also this is what I coach to so many of my trainers that you get good at the these skills and You'll be a very successful trainer You're rarely gonna get to train Somebody who wants to be a d1 college athlete or the guy who wants to get ready for a bodybuilding show like that's like Yeah, that's so just get so rare like straight for almost everybody wants to lose body fat get healthier And what that and most those people are middle-aged and have been sedentary and and or have injury Injuries and joint joint stuff going on if you can relieve that person of chronic pain On on the journey of their whatever their big goal is You will have a client for life and that and it's so much easier To do the things that we're talking about and in a workout show them a different one workout The guy who has tried to kind of do it on his he's been trying to lose weight for a while And he struggle and he's oh and he's got shoulder shit And he's got hip stuff and he's like God fucking I'm finally gonna hire a trainer and he hires a trainer and the trainers like Okay, it's gonna take us at least six months to a year to lose that 30 40 pounds You need like that But then within the first session or two His shoulder feels better than it's ever felt when he bench press his hips feel better than ever Like he's like I'm locked it. He hasn't lost a pound yet But I'm sold on you as a trainer because he's already tried this on his own and he knows what it feels like And I want people to understand this if you if it is indeed a chronic pain that it comes from dysfunction a Green flag and this is I wouldn't say expect this But I would say a lot of people experience this a green flag is by the end of your workout your joint feels better Yes within the first time. Yes, you'll feel better Oftentimes not always but oftentimes so that's something you can look forward to on this. So I had a client She was a general surgeon brilliant surgeon She ended up becoming Somebody who referred me so many clients and one of the reasons for it was she when she first hired me she goes I can't squat to 90 degrees. I have bad knees. I can't do lunges have bad knees We have to store weight stay away from lower body exercises. My orthopedic surgeon told me this and she's also a doctor herself They said okay. Well, we'll try some things and you let me know if it hurts or whatever and two months later We're doing lunges and squats. Her knees are fine. And she sent me so many today so many clients as a result All right, here's the next thing this is where machines have a tremendous amount of value Machines are very valuable when you're working with joint pain because machines require so much less skill Than free weight exercises and there's so much less to focus on like if I'm doing an overhead press with a dumbbell Which is a great exercise and I have shoulder pain, you know, I got to worry about balancing the dumbbell I got to worry about when I'm pushing against the machine, especially if the machine that fits my body Well, I just got to worry about pushing it up. The track takes it where I need to Yeah, if I'm doing a leg press, it's very easy for me. The plate is set. The track is set I don't have to balance and worry about all these different things and I could just push and move through a leg extension very Easy to do in comparison to a free weight exercise. So for joint pain machines are beautiful. This is when I would use them Yeah, it's nice because you can eliminate a lot of those lateral and rotational forces that you have to stabilize again So your muscle has to contract just to you know, fight those forces and then perform the movement now It's like we're just performing the movement We're on this one track and so you can get a good muscle contraction and and kind of squeeze and pump out of it and and Get the benefit of it without the pain. Well bodybuilding really popularized machines, but the origin of it was rehab Yeah, the first ones are for that Yeah the first machines like this were designed for rehabilitation and needing to hold clients and positions and just focus on an area and so it's we got mainstream because of bodybuilding and focusing on muscles and development all that stuff like that, but before that that's that was why They were created. So I mean, it's that's still that was the main use until and yet we've kind of gone away from that It ended up becoming this default of people who are scared to do any free weights They just go go to that or bodybuilders do it to focus on an area But it's like really it's for these types of clients in these type of situations for that Lastly you want to minimize your use of insets of non-steroidal anti-inflammatories Now they do reduce pain, but they do shut off the healing signal as well. So one of the ways that they work is they block production of Prostaglandins, which which contribute to inflammation, but you need those also to signal healing So here's what we find in the data when people regularly use an inset like ibuprofen or naproxen For example when they regularly use them when they work out you see less Muscular strength gains and you also see joint Degeneration over time joints actually get worse over time because you need those inflammatory signals to send healing Recruit recovery and adaptation so minimize their use now I'm not saying don't use them because if you're in pain, you're probably gonna need them But don't do the thing where you're like, I'm gonna go have a hard workout Let me pop to ibuprofen so I could go do this crazy workout. And this is my my routine You're better off going in with a little bit of pain Judging the movements based on how you feel and Doing it that way versus taking these on a regular basis because they will reduce your body's ability To heal and again the data on this is now pretty clear any idea I mean you would be the person that might know this how that compares to ice baths like as far as the dampening of the the signal because we know that's the negative thing that people always talk about That's right. It brings down that inflammatory signal right after a workout, which is great If you're an athlete who has to go right back to practice But if you're in the pursuit of building muscle and strength, right not necessarily the best situation Do you know if it is it a similar percentage? Is it so I don't know as negative more negative I don't think there's any studies on joint health Post-repeated use of ice baths. We do know that it reduces the muscle building and strength building signal if it's used right away after a workout But with nsads you find increased risks of tendon ruptures and worse joint health with chronic use We just have the studies though, I don't think we have studies on ice baths, so it'd be hard to speculate Yeah, no, I'm interesting about the the muscle building side So we if because you're saying the insides also do that so to the ice baths, which one's worse. Oh, oh I mean, I would I would bet that the insides are worse just because of the It's a medicine that also can stress the kidneys can also affect the gut lining ice baths or just yeah I was curious. Yeah an idea what the I would guess that yeah, you know I don't know Anyway, I have some really great studies on Probiotics for you guys to talk about cool. So I so I don't know if you guys heard this before that when you take a probiotic It doesn't really populate your gut that the bacteria just kind of goes through And it doesn't really change your microbiome. And so, you know, that's just they work because you're not really absorbing it This is I've heard this before I've heard people explain this before and say you're not changing your microbiome by taking on but they do Have some benefits or whatever Well, so seed so we work with seed they funded to double blind placebo controlled studies and their their gold standard studies, so double blind meaning the people administering the The probiotic or the placebo doesn't know which is which and the people receiving it doesn't know which is which no Nobody knows who's getting the real deal and who's getting the placebo. Nobody knows. There's also control group This is people who are not doing anything and they're just we're gonna see what's going on And it's a large trial They had one with a hundred and three adults. They paid for this Here's what they found at the start of the study participants gut microbiomes were analyzed using fecal testing They also looked for immune response biomarkers throughout the 12-week double blind trial What one group of participants took a serving of their probiotic daily while the other group took the placebo? Both groups were invited to track their day-to-day gastrointestinal comfort using a smartphone app at the end of the study those using the probiotic using seed saw significant improvements in abdominal discomfort and Measures of occasional constipation including bowel movement frequency and stool consistency. Here's what's cool Follow-up testing also showed that there that seeds probiotic promoted 400% population growth of bifidobacterium and lactobacillus in the gun both very beneficial bacteria both anti-inflammatory Both good for immune health both good for production of serotonin like those are we know those bacteria really good 400% increase so not only did it help with their gut health with you know constipation But they also tested and saw a 400% increase So it actually populated their gut then they did another study with 32 adult participants And they gave they did the same thing and here's what they found It enhanced the population of beneficial lactobacillus microbes 90% higher than placebo and the other one 76% higher with bifidobacterium in the gut They also saw an improvement in gut health or barrier integrity So the barrier of your gut needs to remain healthy Otherwise things get through and this is how you develop food intolerance issues and inflammatory issues So like the mucosal lining of your gut and their seeds probiotic Improved all of that Wow in a short period of time. So explain more to me This is interesting because it's really good. I've been really consistent lately And it's really tough for me to tease out some things because I'm on a diet I'm super dialed and clean. And so of course like there's all these factors. Yeah, so it's like I know better than to be like Oh the probiotics doing all the stuff It's like no I know that you know like I talked about this when I when I started micro dosing the tris epitide like how good my psoriasis is like My psoriasis is just continue to get better and better right now. It's just been awesome. It's been an awesome journey I've also been really consistent with the prior but you just said something that I haven't been able to pinpoint in my routine that like I don't think the tris epitide or in that But it because it I'm imagining that over time because I've been consistent that It improves the God and it improves all these things and it gets like the first week It's not like I'm gonna know it's huge difference second week third week as it continues to populate. Yes. I see these benefits you bring up serotonin the tell me the relationship with serotonin and melatonin and improving my sleep because My sleep is getting better and better and better and better on this journey right now and not a lot is Changing as far as because I've been working at it forever the only thing that's really changed is the consistency of the seat is there possible that The relationship with that could be impacting of course look up probiotics and sleep quality So there's already studies that show that good Healthy bacteria will impact your sleep in a positive way Bad bacteria will impact your sleep in a negative way and it doesn't just have to be I Have a bad tummy so a lot of people like oh, yeah, it helps you sleep better because you go to sleep And yes, yeah, I'm not and that's what I mean by I can't I have a regular stool I don't have constipation issues. So I Wouldn't be a good example of the group that was in there where I'd be like, oh man I noticed all these things from that. I can't say that but I can say psoriasis has been Continuing to get better. Don't know if that is related to it or or if it's more the tris epitide the low diet things like that But then I have my sleep is continued like when I can go back I track everything right so I can see and and People were asking me in my questions the other day like, you know, what are you doing? Is there something in your routine? I'm like, I've kind of done the same things always. About the only thing I'm doing that is new or different, if you compare back to say three, four months or whatever ago, would be the CDET. Yeah, so what we find... Consistently, I haven't been consistent in a long time. What you find is reduced cortisol. You also have the gut-brain axis, right? So we know that there's a direct connection, like a direct highway now between the gut and the brain. And so healthy gut, healthy brain, you're going to get better neurotransmitter production. I'm sure it affects or impacts melatonin because melatonin is in that whole cycle. So yeah, dude, of course. Absolutely. So this new population of bacteria, does it help too with the permeability of your gut lining? Yes. Yeah. So it helps to kind of heal that process? 100%, dude. That's awesome. 100%. You've been religious on it for a while. I am super consistent. You've never been off. But I went off for like, it was like 30 days or 35 days. They didn't send us any. I actually went and bought it myself. I'm sponsored by CEDET to buy it myself. And I noticed some difference going off for 30 days. That's what I always can tell is when I do that. I wanted to ask you if you saw, and I know Doug is not the biggest fan when I do this, if I have to pull it up and get you guys to listen to it. Did you see the study that Brett Concheros went over that somebody else shared and then he was basically commenting on about cutting and bulking? No. And basically building in a cut? Oh, no. Oh, damn it. I wish. Were they showing that you can build in a cut? Yeah. Experienced or beginner? I don't know if he breaks down the difference of that. Doug, I know you're not a fan of this, but I really want to. Just put it into the mic. Yeah, I will. But this is such a good comment. And it's really top of mind for me with everything I got going on right now. Do you need a surplus to gain muscle? Here's Jordan Fagenbaum, MD, with a 12 swipe carousel post. Let's roll through it and then I'm going to give my opinion. All right. Every lifter learns the same rule. To build muscle, you have to eat a calorie surplus. Bulk first, cut later, unless your body fat is high. Then it's cut first, bulk later. Those have been the rules for decades. But for most people, this is all wrong. And the math doesn't math. Muscle hypertrophy is the increase in existing muscle fibers. There are three general constraints or limiters to growing muscle. One, training. How much can you stimulate the muscle and recover from? Two, genetics. How much muscle can you carry and how do you respond to training? Three, energy. How much fuel do you have access to in order to pay for the muscle training and the rest? Focusing on the energy constraint, let's start off with the cost of building a pound of muscle. Muscle is about 75% model with the remaining portion being primarily protein, 22 to 25% and a little bit of glycogen and fat 0.5 to 2%. Building a pound of muscle takes about 1,588 extra calories. For someone who's new to training or very responsive, they might be able to add two pounds of muscle in a month, which requires just over a hundred calories per day extra. For more experienced training who might be able to add a pound of muscle in three months, it's right around 20. That's not very much obviously. And so the question is, where can that energy come from? Energy for building muscle, feeling, training, and every other metabolic process the body has to or can run comes from two principal sources, the body's own stores and the diet. The body stores energy in many places, example, glycogen in the liver and protein in the muscle. But the primary store for most functions is body fat. Consider an 80 kilogram guy with 20% body fat. He has over a hundred thousand calories worth of stored energy in his body fat, which can offset his energy needs through the diet, including the energy needed to build muscle. While you can't turn fat into muscle, your body doesn't discriminate between the energy from your last meal or from your belly. What muscle costs to build? The energy to build it versus the energy you store. To build one pound of muscle, around 1,600 calories. Stored as body fat, 80 kg is 20%. That's 120,000 plus calories. A pound of muscle is about three quarters water. The dry tissue you actually add costs almost nothing to build. Roughly 20 to 100 calories a day spread out over a month. Anyone with real body fat is already carrying far more energy than building muscle will ever require. The simultaneously loss of body fat and gain of muscle mass is called body recomposition, which regularly occurs in individuals who are carrying sufficient body fat. That's not new. What is new is the rate of muscle gain doesn't appear to be any faster if those people ate more because there's plenty of energy on board already. Based on available research, my view is that for above 20% body fat, energy is not the constraint for men. Add 8% for women. For these individuals, a modest deficit around 400 calories per day or less. Maintenance intake or a surplus all produce the same amount of muscle growth. Since energy availability is not the limiter, eating in a surplus only adds additional body fat. These individuals can gain muscle at the maximum rate and lose fat at the same time. Conversely, a man below about 12% or someone eating a large deficit is likely to hit the energy bottleneck. Here, the body stops treating its fat as expendable and starts eyeing the muscle as fuel when in a deficit, in addition to altering anabolic signaling overall. As a result, these individuals would benefit from a small surplus and likely a slightly higher protein intake. That is the lean power lifter who finally has to move up a weight class to keep progressing because he needs more muscle to get stronger. Most people reading this are in the middle, where there's ample energy available to fund muscle growth and body fat levels are typically within the healthy range for most. If a person here wants to lose some body fat, they'll still be able to gain muscle mass just as if they were maintaining their weight. There's no reason to eat in a big surplus from a muscle perspective. Instead of focusing on micromanaging nutrition, apply that same attention to training since that is the real constraint. Stepping back for a moment, doesn't this seem like the personal fat threshold all over again? Think about it. You've got a level of body fat that your physiology treats as sufficient, and as long as you're above it, energy isn't what's limiting your muscle gain. If you get below that level or attempt to eat to deficits that are too big, then energy does become the constraint. It's the mirror image of the personal fat threshold on the high end where carrying too much fat starts driving disease. Both thresholds vary from person to person, but now that you understand the relationship between energy intake, body fat, and hypertrophy, you'll know what to do if you want to gain some muscle. All I have to say here is hell yeah, I'm so glad more people are talking about this. So Brad fully agrees with this. I find this really interesting to bring up because in practice, I have not felt this at all. No, nobody has. So here's the deal. So they're they're assuming a lot in what he's saying. I'll give you an example. If you have a car with an engine that produces a hundred horsepower and it cranks the axle, the axle attaches the tire, tires the ground. What actually hits the ground is not a hundred horsepower because there's energy loss. This is physics. You can calculate all the calories. There's a leak of energy. Yeah. You can calculate all the calories. You think, oh, there's only this many calories to build this much muscle. That's not how it works. You don't eat a hundred calories that'll build exactly. There's all kinds of things that happen with the energy in the body that we haven't really accounted for. And also lots of signals that are happening and from a surplus, not just the fact that I have extra calories or extra energy, but rather it may actually stimulate muscle growth on its own. So that's why in practice, like good luck. Now, if you're a beginner, you see beginners build muscle all the time in a deficit, but past a certain point, good luck. So that's where I do agree some with this. So if I have a client who is, even though again, I still would make the argument to actually increase calories or at least reverse diet, or at least focus on bulking and building first before cutting. But I have seen where you have somebody who is a male, 30% body fat, need to lose 60, 70 pounds. And we do do a cut and they also build muscle. Like I've seen that. And that would make this argument part of this true. That being said, I've seen far better success, that same client, not trying to put them on a cut, keeping them on a maintenance or even a slight surplus, focusing on building more aggressively, build for a while. Maybe we don't lose much weight on the scale whatsoever, but now their metabolic rate ends up going up and then cutting them back down. And in practice, that seems to be now, and, and that only works for the kind of newbie person. If I get somebody who's been already consistent and training and lifting and doing their thing, genetic factors and all that. Yeah. This is like, okay. Have you ever heard of perpetual movement machines? Have you ever heard of these before? They don't exist. So perpetual movement machine that could probably Google it, uh, is where, uh, this, you know, people have done this forever where they're trying to come up with a machine that will always move because it captures energy perfectly. So it creates energy here. The energy moves the wheel and it can, yeah, there you go. So like these are, these are the balls that go back and forth. You start it. And then the perpetual movement machine was to utilize the energy. That's what the balls are. It continues forever in an unperturbed system, but the reason, and it's hypothetical, but the reason why it doesn't work is because there's energy loss. It doesn't capture, you can't capture energy perfectly. And so this is the human metabolism is not way more, way more complex, way more complex than creating a machine that's running off of steam and sunlight or whatever. Uh, it's way more complex. So I could, I could, we could figure out how many grams of protein or calories is in a pound of muscle. All that was assuming so much. That doesn't mean I eat it. And that's the exact number. Like there's all kinds of things that happen. Like my, my mitochondria can uncouple and turn some of the energy into heat. It could, it could divert it and move in different directions. Hormones change this all the time. So it's not, he's doing all this math and his calculation. It should only be this much. And that's all that doesn't, it doesn't work in real life that way. Yeah. I thought it was such an interesting, uh, study and it wasn't a study. It was him just saying his opinion. Oh, the, the MD interpreting it. Yeah. Interpreting the science. So he's interpreting studies. Yes. You know, that, that's so it wasn't him quoting a study, but actually interpreting lots of different studies that talk about the metabolic rate and building muscle and everything like that. I thought it was also interesting coming from Brett, who I, as a coach who is coached a lot of people and trained a lot of people. I bet if I sat with Brett and asked him questions around it, then he would start. I will have to definitely, it'll be a great discussion the next time because he'll be a return guest. He's a friend of ours. And so, um, and, and, and of course he is, I know he's responding, uh, you know, on Instagram where he only gets three minutes to talk. And so I never, I mean, how many times have you taken somebody? Let's say, I mean, I, you know, you asked me, I, that's why I knew I wanted to bring it up because it's like in practice, this is not true for me. I don't care what, I, this is, I'm always this person right on the show. Like you're the science guy. I'm like, I don't care what the science says. I've trained enough people that it doesn't science or it doesn't, it doesn't add up to what the study says. And so it's like, you can beat me over the head all day long with a study that says this is, but I've applied it enough times in my career. That's like, for some reason, when I do this instead of that, here's the deal. That's not a study. So when you're in a deficit, yes, you have stored energy, but it also tells your body to preserve. It also tells your body to stop burning as many calories. We know this. So it's, it's not just this perfect energy system. You don't just immediately use your fat. Where we could capture everything. Yeah. So think about it too, in order for us to actually really prove this argument, well, we would need a very controlled type of a study, right? You need a study with enough people and enough people. You make their food for them to count it. You would need beginners. You would need advanced people. You would need people, uh, that have been consistent. You need people inconsistent. You need people that have, uh, gut issues and health issues. You have people that have hormonal stuff and they, they don't, you need, you know, 20 of each and then you put them through this. Oh, let's put them all in a deficit and let's see if they all cut. And then let's see what, what plays out. And I'm willing to bet to your point that there's some scenarios where that, that Matt, it masked out where the guy, like he responded in a cut, he built some of those, like say those five avatars that I just laid out, but then there's three or four that it didn't work so well with, you know? So we would need a really good study like that. There's just so many. Okay. From, from the, when you put something in your mouth, the process of that being turned into energy and what happens with that energy, there's so much that goes on in metabolism so much. There's so many directions that could go. There's so many ways that now we know the basics, but there's also a lot of mystery. Uh, and this is why you could take a kid. Look, you can take a kid who's trying to build muscle and, you know, use a 17 year old football player, track everything, eat perfectly. We're going to bump you a hundred calories. That'll give us a pound of muscle. It doesn't, I got to bump them 600 calories oftentimes because we don't know, look, we don't know if your brain needs more energy that day. Well, here's another example to just continue down all these scenarios that we all have done many, many times is, uh, I've got a lady who is tracking all our food. She's dining. Well, we're in a quote unquote deficit, severe gut issues, and we, she's been stalled. Can't lose fat. Won't it just stay in the same? All of a sudden she gets to the root cause of whether it be a parasite or it'd be some sort of, you know, leaky gut, whatever we heal that nothing else changes. All of a sudden body fat starts to come down. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't a calorie issue up or down. It was that, or another situation, uh, client dial doing everything perfect. Right. Just not building muscle. All of a sudden gets on hormone therapy because their testosterone was everything changed. All of a sudden Nelson packing on muscle. It's like, okay, so didn't have to change anything on the, from a calorie standpoint and or programming standpoint, but change something hormonally, bam, all of a sudden changes muscle building or fat loss changes something. Gut also changes muscle loss or, or, or, or fat loss or muscle gain. I mean, so I, you know, logically listening to that, I'm like, wait a second. I know, I know so many scenarios where this case isn't true, you know, make, explain this to me. So yeah, I, I figured you would say it's not perfect. No, the, the, the, the science on it's not perfect. We, so we have to base it off experience at some point. I also think it's the reason why I want to bring it up too, because again, definitely a friend of ours respect. And I think Brett's great. Um, but I think in my opinion, generally speaking, I think it's worse advice than good advice. Right? Like, I know that was like his, his argue, the guys, the doctor's argument, the MD's argument was that, you know, most of you, this is good practical advice. I don't agree with that. I actually think more people, when I got somebody who struggles with building muscle, I almost always have to push calories further than what the science supports. Like it's somebody who's like, come to me and they're like, Adam, I cannot, I cannot, I can't build it. I also, I normally had to push them higher than, and the reverse is true. Like when I have somebody who's just not been able to read, it's like, man, it's. I also want to, you know, uh, uh, Brett's a phenomenal coach. He's been training people for a long time, but he also specializes competitors. And yeah, so he has a, he has a bias, a self-selection bias of the types of people responders and they're really high responders. Lots of them compete. Lots of them dedicated, hardcore. Most people are not in that category. And I'm going to tell you, look, genetics play a huge role in how somebody responds. When I've trained clients who have those kinds of genetics, it's a whole different ball game than when I trained Johnson, well, we're 45 years old and maybe, maybe, maybe that's because again, we're, even though we've trained competitors, I've trained a lot of competitors to not the bulk of my training, but a good percentage. Um, maybe what the perspective that we're coming from, because again, we always speak to behavioral, which I think is the masses, which is also why I think this is not great advice for the general people is 50% of people under report, under report calories and whether that be, and they tend to under report the, whatever direction they're supposed to be going. Right. For example, the guy who can't bulk, you know, thinks he's eating way more than what he's really eating. And then when I break it down, I'm just like, no. And so I got to give him a target, like eat a thousand more calories. I know the study doesn't need a thousand where I know it needs I only know you need 150 more calorie over your surplus to build muscle of aware right but it's like it seems that I gotta tell that guy a thousand but it probably what I'm I've learned to do is factor in behavioral is that like if I tell him a thousand he's probably gonna get 500 some days some days 200 some days he might even be under and miss and so it ends up being a few hundred over because I've pushed him in that direction and the reverse is true the client who's like I can't lose weight and I only eat 2000 calories and then we track and it's like you're eating more like 3500 calories uh let's you know I'm saying and so maybe that's also our our experience is you know we're factoring so much of the behavioral stuff too that happens on and so like generally speaking and again why I wanted to bring this up because you know his page our stuff is followed by a lot of people and I think well I don't know if telling somebody who's struggling to build that you only need 100 more calories is always the best advice and not for the general and and also be perfect with your like you're saying be perfectly tracking I mean you gotta be perfect for tracking yeah to go 100 above well and that's what made me think of like why why you're weighing for brett that's like that makes sense because his clients do they do yeah yeah how many of your clients were perfect with their weighing yeah yeah none zero none of them yeah so anyway I gotta I want to tell you guys about this I went to this um event at my church where they had these two authors uh I'm gonna actually pull it up um the the whole event was about raising resilient children it was so good you guys it was so good his name I'm gonna look up his name what was do you remember um in our our course it was David Thomas and Sissy Goffman I think was her name uh and they they have this podcast called Raising Boys and Girls it was really really good information on raising uh resilient kids but they had this one uh like slide up there that I saved I want to tell you guys about it was so cool so you want your kids to be capable more than anything you want them to be capable so they're talking about how this these younger generations are less capable more anxious they're more likely to kind of freak out uh you know you hear from teachers how kids are waiting for instructions on like well tell me exactly what to do whereas with our generation we kind of had to try to figure things out and so they had this this great uh slide and it says you know so I'll read them to you capable parents value resilience over relief or rescue so anytime your kid needs help is this going to build resilience now that doesn't mean you don't ever help them but you gotta ask yourself and you value resilience over relief or rescue capable parents value sturdiness over success so oftentimes what makes you more sturdy is that you fail and so how many times parents jump in and do the the you know the report for their kid because they don't want them to you know get a bad grade or whatever the temptation capable parents value health over happiness I thought that was a good one because you think happiness is health but it's not health means you can run the gamut of emotions and then capable parents value capability over confidence and they talked about how confidence real confidence comes from realizing you're capable it is not the other way around they talked about false confidence where kids are like yeah I could totally I'm you know whatever but they don't try because they know yeah they're about to fail type of deal it was such a good uh course I love when I hear stuff like this because it just it's a it reminds me of uh how valuable the school is that I put max into because it's crazy right now he's in first grade and they meet with the parents and like we get told like stuff that we need to make sure that we do with kids one of the things this year was a big focus was like uh we are setting them up on things that are going to challenge them and they're going to have to work through and it's important that you guys do not jump in don't jump in in fact the thing that we're teaching is not the answer but that how they work through the process to get to the answer and they have like these steps before you're supposed to even get involved to like helping them like keep working through the process and it's just a great example of like you know that's again uh I wouldn't have thought to make sure that we do that you know you think oh your kid asked for help and so you sit down and you want to help them out and it's like no we've been coached on what does that look like exactly like you don't just come in and like oh this is the answer this is how you do it it's like help them through the process of did you do this or have you tried to think of these things or did you look this up first and like so I just I mean it's first grade yeah and teaching them to do that already is like dude I love that man I think it's so valuable it was such a great it was such a great class that's cool all right I want to ask you just an off-air you're bringing this up I'm like save it for the show what is happening with football helmets in the pros like what are they doing some of the bobbleheads well there's a few things I've I don't know I just I get annoyed because um I don't know there just seems to be this big I understand it because science comes in and then they expose the fact that like we have this brain injuries and you know there's all this like downstream effect which is terrible whatever uh we all forget that this is like a really dangerous sport it's always been right and it's something that like you know a lot of the guys they know the risk going into it um and now it's like we it's almost like we have it's the paralysis by analysis kind of thing where we're getting to the point where we have these stupid helmets that have like these huge like pads all over it makes them look like it was big mushroom cloud on the bobblehead yeah it looks stupid and ridiculous and it's like I understand like the guys are trying to extend their longevity in the game and all this kind of stuff but like dude we're just what do you call that we're we're putting bubble wrapping so much on on all this like risk uh which really takes away from the game you know for people like me like it was like so the other example is like cam scadaville he's on uh the new york giants he's like an old school like hard-nosed player like he will come at you dude and he ran right into uh one of the linebackers I think and just knocked him over and just it was an amazing run and they they gave him a penalty for roughing and it's like an offensive player offensive player you never like that's I've never even heard of that like that's insane to me like that's something you'd give for like a defensive player hitting the the quarterback a little late this is so expected because it's weak it's expected because if you look at all contact sports they've all got they've all evolved can we just put the karens out of i feel i feel like i could just so like the picture justin like in the 50s you know like with this i feel like a straw hanging out of his mouth and oh these pussies i mean there was a time bro they wore leather they just want leather on their head and i there had to be a guy yeah i saw these big metal ones with air air compressors oh my god i wore leather remember when the face mask was one bar well in the 70s i would prefer that if in two there was a good argument for that because there's an argument that it'd be safer because yeah because you're not going to come in and use it like a battering ram yeah yeah so the thing about the helmet it becomes a weapon it's not a safety tool this is a weapon and so like everybody else is hitting your head you know yeah of course we're going to do more damage because now you have like all this added weight and metal wasn't original football you played both uh offense and defense oh sure back in the days a lot of guys yeah you had to run both sides oh my god well i mean that's why rugby was so rough for me because it was like just this ongoing sprint and uh like high uh impact dude i i uh my favorite sport to learn about from back in the day is boxing it bro oh yeah there was no rounds there were no rounds no there were until you die no there was no limit there was no round so i said there's no rounds it was just you just keep going until the guy punching the guy submits until tomorrow when you read when you read about a fight in like 1925 and oh the referee stopped the fight do you know what it took for a ref to stop the fight oh yeah you had to be basically he's basically like okay hold on he's about to die let's stop the fight really quick yeah i know crazy yeah we've come a long way from that it's just the sign i mean i think it's going to keep but i mean the argument to stay along the lines of justin's argument and and and fighting since you brought that up it's like this is why ufc has gotten away with what it's like it's actually safer with the almost bare knuckles than it is with these big cushy gloves the big cushy gloves there's now yeah the person that's enforcing and inflicting that contact yeah it gets you know feels it yeah they have to you know monitor and manage it the best comparison isn't mma because mma has so much grappling so people have argued well they also grapple so they're punching less bare knuckle fighting is now that you can watch bare knuckle yeah and it definitely messes your face up more oh yeah yeah looks wise but as far as your brain yeah way less brain's not rattling probably because of all the blood but yeah like you ain't gonna punch someone directly in their head in fact back in the day you guys know this old school boxing before gloves when they would do bare knuckle one of the ways you would block somebody's hit is you put your head down having a top your head but you break their hand yeah and so like i go to jab you and you put your head down and break my hand i'm like oh i'm not gonna hit you anymore yeah now with them with boxing gloves it doesn't matter i know that's crazy now all the sports are just moving that direction i sound like such an old curmudgeon yeah you know dude it just annoys me grandpa justin well what did you wear when you played football it's gonna be i'm the asshole too that used my helmet as a weapon bro like i i i was like that guy that would tackle and then i would hit you like extra hard who was that one game who was that one football i want to say he was romanowski no no no no this is from the 70s he did this famous he had this famous way of tackling kiss he had this famous way of tackling they made illegal where he would he would literally grab the guy by the neck and swing him around oh yeah and i don't remember what they called it a horse collar became illegal but that became illegal in our time that was later it was uh no this was in the 1970s line it was something he looked like he literally grabbed him by the head and he clotheslined him yeah bring him down and they made it illegal because this guy was so good at it i mean there's always one guy who did who's like famous for yeah for doing he just keeps repeating it yeah is he are you looking it up doug what's his name the face mask tackle oh well that's obvious maybe that's where the face mask came from right because there wasn't oh oh twisting bagels oh there it is that's the clothesline tackle line yeah yeah grabbing a player around the neck or head with an extended arm to throw them it was it was banned in 1979 i got i definitely got one of those in the game and it was mainly because like they did a really good juke move but i stepped to the right and then he cut in and i just stuck my arm out i got right there oh justin i just you know i know you gotta do what you gotta do well i mean that's like one of the things about high level sports is that you and this is why the game will always evolve and change is that the players will find a way to exploit the rules i mean you you play every day and you find the little cheat codes i mean the example that in the nba is like uh i mean you just i just watched this as watched opening night with the warriors man uh luke was playing uh with our rookie yak so he's a rookie but he's gonna be a stud rookie for us and he was rookies really good defensive player and stuff like that and you could just see luca toying with him now luca is a pro been playing for a long time knows all the tricks on like how to get the ref's attention to call the foul and it's just and you can see the kid getting so frustrated because he's setting him up and he's like this it's not a foul but it is because he's learned how to manipulate the game and use it and so and then eventually what happens is they change the rules of like okay you can't do that anymore because guys are doing there's guys that learn to use their body to push you without using their hands to get create space so they can get a shot and it's like man that's dirty you know but some guys master it so well and there's guys that learn to do the swoop they actually take the ball underneath when your hands are out defensively and they throw their hands against your hands so you you foul them but they really hit they actually they initiated it and then they shoot it sometimes they make it and then they get the foul too and so there's like this is a game a master of a flaw yes again and for football like you said they learn like okay i can use my helmet like a spear and this will knock a guy out and it's like i mean it's kind of the just evolution of all pro sports right now all right i got some more cool studies these studies are essential amino acids so i pulled up a few of them which is pretty cool this is a great one this is a randomized trial uh and this was on uh older adults so this uh was looking at the value of essential amino acid supplements for older adults they compared it to whey protein this is what's really cool essential amino acids so you're taking just the essential amino acids capsule form powder form versus a scoop of whey protein which theoretically has a lot of essential amino acids we've always argued like what's the difference a specially formulated essential amino acid supplement especially formulated because they're really high in leucine improved six minute walk distance more than an equivalent amount of whey protein in older adults yep so these were low physical function adults so these are these are like deconditioned older adults half of them took way the other half of them took essential amino acids what is going on there uh i think it's it's stimulating muscle protein synthesis better in fact another one shows that uh that and this is another one in older adults essential amino acid mixtures it has to be 40 percent leucine or higher by the way keon has it so keon essential amino acids has 40 percent or more leucine yeah okay it can stimulate muscle protein synthesis in older adults at low doses comparable to much larger whey protein bolus so two grams of essential amino acids versus 30 grams of protein and it stimulates muscle protein synthesis just as much when you talk about this stuff how cool is that i mean this i mean this is one of the few i believe he brought that up on the when we the first one when we i remember that study yep um looking back on our all of our training careers and knowing what and how one we've changed our opinion on you know yes right i think i would you would you not i mean i mean i have me too especially when i'm in a cut no it's like a no-brainer for me that i between meals three times a day i'm doing the seven pills um but i think back to like again also understanding behavior and clients my elderly clients i probably would have made all of my clients that are 50 and above this is just a mandatory supplement you should take it's like a multivitamin if you're strength training with me uh i know how hard it is for everybody to get protein already and then we know what now the studies say even in comparison to it it's like i would think that this would be raised their floor a bit but yeah would you would you guys not would this not become like so there already are so they think it's leucine although the essential amino acids uh you want all of them you just want a high leucine content but the studies have already changed how um uh formulas are for like meal replacement formulas for like uh what do they call what are those places where people when they're older they go live and assisted like care homes care homes right like like yeah So they will, they'll, when, when they get their prescription meal replacements, they infuse them now with leucine because they're showing, uh, how much it preserves muscle and strength. So we're seeing this, uh, already, but even with guys like us, like you just like to lift or whatever, essential amino acids, uh, in comparison to whey protein seems to have a stronger, especially in a gram per gram basis, a stronger effect on muscle protein synthesis. Yeah. So how would you use this? Interesting. Does this mean you don't have your protein shake post-workout? No. But what you do is during your workout or before your workout, take essential amino acids. That's what I've been doing. I just do it between the meals. So I'm doing it three times. It's like, if I'm not eating or drinking a shake or something like that, it's just, which I'm, I'm eating a good five to six times a day right now. So it's just when I have a window of, you know, two hours before the next one, I just will, and I keep them every, are you doing the key on capsules mostly because they're convenient and easy. I don't have to mix them with what I, I think I told the last time we had a key on commercial, I brought up the flavored ones. I really actually liked the way they taste, but it's just easy for me to keep this in my duffel bag, keep it next to here. By the way, tomorrow we're giving them a six tubs away, right? Doug, is that correct? Yeah. Six different people are going to win. Okay. So this is on our mind pump, uh, four PM Pacific standard time tomorrow. We're picking six people now, how the people enter is when they buy a map program, whatever they get entries. So we're going to call your name out on the, uh, on the IgE live and six people are going to win one tub of the essential amino acid, uh, supplement from Keon. Just so people know too, though, every day we're giving away something on IgE live. And even if you, let's say like, let's say you bought a maps program yesterday and you're entering to win for tomorrow's thing, everything. Yeah. It enters into everything. So you have a chance once you, once you have an entry, you have a chance to win every single day. So make sure you're tuning in 4 PM Pacific standard time on IgE. Uh, the next one we have coming up is Keon's, which we're giving away the tubs, which is really cool, but yeah, no, it's something that, um, I'm such a fan of, especially when I'm in a cut, especially. All right, you guys, I'm going to share with you something called C15 from fatty 15. So C15 is an essential fatty acid, uh, that we have seen now in studies to have tremendous potential longterm health and wellness benefits. Fatty 15 is a company that sells C15 and their goal is to improve your health and wellness. So when you age or as you age, your body's age and fatty 15 is a science backed award-winning patented 100% pure C15 supplement that helps give you this essential fatty acid that helps with cellular integrity with mitochondrial health helps reduce inflammation. I've been using fatty 15 now for a while. And I noticed my joints feel better and I sleep better when I use it, add it to your fish oil, it's an essential fatty acid, but it is not one that is found in fish. It is found in dairy. And again, it's got some incredible health benefits. Go check them out. Go to fatty15.com slash mind pump. That's fatty15.com slash mind pump that you get that link will get you a discount, but you have to use the code mind pump back to the show. Our first caller is Jennifer from Nevada. Hi, Jennifer. Hi. Oh my God. I'm so excited to be here. Hi, how are you doing? I'm doing good. How can we help you? All right. So please stop me if I ramble too long, but I think you need to know my history. So thank you so much, by the way, for having me, and a little something fun to share. My daughter calls you my podcast husbands because I'm always listening. So I've been listening for like a year, but more than once a week, so I'm getting caught up on all of your back podcasts as well. But I've been focusing on progressive overload and protein. And you walked me off the cliff many times from going back to old habits. So thank you for that. I tried to condense my email a bit, but again, stop me if this is too long. So a little background. I'm 55. I'm almost five, five, about 147. According to my home scale, I'm about 35% body fat, sometimes higher. I know those scales are inaccurate. So I grew up very chubby kid, bullied at school. I went on my first formal diet at about 12 and I've been on and off diet since then. Extreme exercise programs, always focused on being thinner and number on the scale, just like a lot of women my age, I would assume. So I've gotten, I got heavy again in high school, but then in my twenties, I maintained what I thought was a good weight through my early forties, not in the healthiest way, very low calories, sometimes 900 only to gain it back and then go on another diet, never learning maintenance. Then in my early forties, I went into menopause without realizing it and all the crazy boot camp style classes, cycling, cardio, random weight training, eating 1100 calories. It all stopped working. And I went from 128 to 140 and I couldn't figure it out. So I went to a, an app. I don't know if you want me to say the name, but very popular app for macro counting. And I went, I tried to lose weight. It wasn't working. So they advised me to do a, a reverse diet. It took me eight months to get to 1800 calories and I gained another 10 pounds. So now up 20 from prior to menopause. And then I, after eight months, I couldn't take it any longer. I was back up to my post partum weight after having a baby. So I went back to 1350 calories. They advised me to try that. I continued weight training and I only lost about five pounds in three months. And then I just stopped trying because it was just getting to be too much. So since the reverse, I've only been on like two diets in the past, probably eight years, like two strict diets. Currently I lift, I use the Stacy Sims, Haley happens app. I lift five days a week, four to five. I do sprints twice a week based on her program and then there's a hit session once a week. Sometimes I skip that. I currently walk about 12 to 13,000 steps. And I'm finally doing pull-ups for the first time in my life at 55 years old. So last July, I finally decided to do another diet because I had a family wedding coming up in September. I made my own macros. I did about 120 to 25 grams of protein. I let the carbs and fats fall where they may. I increased my scale to 13 to 16,000. And although these calories weren't much lower than what I was already loosely tracking, I started weighing everything again, scale, measuring cups, spoons. I lost only like half a pound to .8 pounds a week and some weeks nothing at all for like three weeks. I took some diet breaks and by the wedding I had lost like eight pounds and then by December I lost about 12, 13 slowly but I felt good and I was ready to take your advice and go into maintenance for the first time in my life. But then January came and my dad got ill and eventually passed away in February. So I flew to Florida. I spent four months there taking care of him. He passed in February but then I took care of my mom till April. I lost more weight for the first time in my life without trying. So I was probably down like 17 pounds and then as soon as I got home in April, it all started to come back on quickly despite I was sticking to my 1,350 calories, walking 10 to 12,000 steps a day. I went back to repeat the same workout program that I mentioned earlier. So I need your advice because right now I don't know where to go. The weight is slowly coming back on. I'm still at those 1,350 calories. I know probably what your advice is gonna be but I'm terrified to increase calories but I am ready to make the shift. I wanna focus on being stronger and fit and just for the record, I've done RMR testing. Supposedly I burned 1,800. That was a couple of years ago but I was gaining at that weight. I have a high body fat. I've had disordered eating. I probably have body dysmorphia according to my friends but my body fat is pretty high and I just don't know. Is it too late? At 55, is it too late? No, no, no, no. Should I just deal with what I have now and try to just stay in shape and can somebody with my history actually succeed on a reverse diet? Yes, yes, yes. What do you recommend? And one more thing, I'm sorry. I'm thinking of doing maps up or lower because I need a new workout plan. So thank you for listening. No, no, you got it, hon. And listen, what we're gonna tell you is simple but it's not gonna be easy for you. I know. So there's a combination of things that's happening. You are eating too little but you're also over-training. You're still over-training, 100%. Oh yeah, five days a week strength training, HIIT, sprints, way too much. Well, the sprints are only like- Nope, too much. I don't care. Two times a week after the work. I don't care, too much. That's what she recommends. I don't care what she recommends. I know her programs. Her programs are written for 20-something-year-old women who don't have responsibilities and issues. I know her programs and they're not bad. They're just not appropriate for most women. Well, I did feel like it might be too much but I did put on muscle. And like I said, I was able to finally get a pull-up. You got stronger in spite of the fact that you're doing too much. And that's just because it's less than what you're used to doing. Right, because I was doing a lot of Metcom workouts before that, like never breaking, just like going from squats to squat jumps to this, to that, like- No, no, no. Jennifer, have you had hormones checked too? Do you know where- Okay, so I forgot to mention. Yes, my blood work is fabulous. A friend of mine is a nurse practitioner. She says I'm the healthiest female for my age that she's seen. My labs are great. And my hormones, I've been on HRT for probably eight years now. I thought that would help the fat loss, but that doesn't. So for those women out there that think HRT is the answer, it's great. I'm sorry, I'm talking so fast. It's great because I don't feel 55 and I think it helps in some areas, but it's not helping with the fat loss. No, you can beat the crap out of yourself on hormones too. Yeah. And it's not gonna fix that. You have to dramatically decrease your workouts and you have to increase your calories. By the way, if you weren't taking HRT, your body would really be feeling that. Oh, you'd- Well, I think that's why the reverse, do you think that's why the reverse didn't work for me? Because when I started it, I didn't realize I was going into menopause. The reverse didn't work for you because you were beating the crap out of yourself still. Yeah. Also, the 1350 calories, if you're hitting your protein intake, I'm guessing based off that number, you probably eat very lean, low fat too. No. So like I, last night I had a bison burger. I made ground turkey. I'll do lean. Lean, lean. Yeah, I do lean. Well, I do chicken thighs, chicken thighs. I'm still lean. So that's all white meat. All white meat, bison's the leanest meat you're eating. So- Well, I do tri-tip about once a week. Once a week. Yeah. Salmon, ground beef, the 80, no, 90, 10 or 85. How many grams of fat are you having a day? Sometimes 50, 55. Super low. Yeah, too low, huh? Yeah, super low. Oh, and I do avocado, olive oil. I, believe me, compared to how I used to eat in my 20s and 30s. Well, that's, the good news is we're getting better. You're moving in the right direction. You're moving in the right direction, getting rid of a lot of the met cons and the circuit training and the running, but we still got to keep going in that direction. Sleep, recovery, higher fat, all those things become the big priority. Right now you're working, you're fighting your body still. That's why it's revolting and it's not giving you the response that you should. You should be able to do half the effort of lifting and movement and training for twice the results and not having to eat as low, but we have to get there. Well, that's my biggest thing. Like I know, like for my age, everybody says, oh, you look good for your age. Okay, I look okay, but for the work that I put in, I feel like I should look ripped. You know, if I was trying, if I was, look, if I was in my backyard trying to dig a hole for a pool and I was using a spoon, I'd be working my ass off, but you'd see barely any work done every week. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to dig a hole in your backyard for a pool and you're using a teaspoon and you're working your butt off. And that's why what you feel like is you're not getting the result for the effort you're putting in. You're spinning your tires in the dirt because you're beating the crap out of yourself. Right, but how long would something like this take to recover from after like so many years of bad habits? So what happened is this, if you did what we tell you, initially, you're just going to start to feel stronger and you'll start to feel more energy and you'll start to feel more vibrant. It'll probably take, I don't know, six months before we get to a place where we can start to cut, maybe nine months. And then it's going to feel like your body's working for you and it's going to feel like, here's what it's going to feel like, Jennifer. This is what people tell us. I can't believe I'm getting leaner. What the hell is going on? How is this even working? I feel like I'm barely doing anything. And I'm eating more than I've ever ate. Yeah, like I'm eating all this food. I'm barely doing anything compared to what I used to do. And I know if you've listened to the show long enough and you've listened to callers, you've heard this. You hear these stories all day long. And this is very, very common. It's not uncommon. I would say at least six to nine months. I would say at least that. But some of the advice, like if I was coaching you, it would be like, we're throwing the scale away. We're not worried about it right now. That'll mess you up. Yeah, I just want to hear about energy. I want to hear about strength, about new PRs inside the gym that we're setting. Like that's the, and then slowly inching up. For sure, calories and most of those calories coming from fat. I got to get you above that 50 grams. Yeah, you got to get at least 70 grams of fat. That would be the minimum. I can do that. Yes. It's wild. Off air, Sal and I are going through our kick right now where I'm dialing back in and playing with macros. And I was telling him that my body had stalled and I was messing with things. And I bumped my fat. I was around 80, 90 grams. And I'm like, that's fine, 80, 90 grams isn't bad. But I know it's on the lower end for me. So I shot it all the way up to 150, 160 grams of fat, which also bumped my calories by 300 calories. The very next week, four pounds came off. And so with higher calorie and higher fat. So, but what that tells me is that my body needed those healthy fats. I noticed an improvement in my sleep and my readiness score also. So all of a sudden my sleep got better. My body was more vibrant and ready to train harder. So it's just compounding effect. Low fat like that will affect you that way. And a lot of times it'll be disguised because you're taking HRT. If you weren't taking HRT, you would feel it. You would really feel it. That's the benefits of HRT is that it's like, oh wow, you have this artificial signal that's being sent to your body that you're okay when really the things that you're doing to it are not okay. So, okay, so last night I had, well yesterday I'm just looking at my fitness pal. I had 50 grams of fat yesterday. Yes, low. That's the lowest I would ever let you get to. Absolutely. 60 would be low. You'd be at 65 with me, 70. Okay, I should have added avocado, I guess, to that burger. So here's what you would do, okay? MAPS Anabolic is your program. If you go to a gym and you like to spend your time in the gym, ideally maps 15 would be the better program Yeah, and what that's gonna look like is two lifts a day So you'll be doing a little bit most days, but you're only doing So I have a treadmill at home and I have weights up to I have two 35-pound dumbbells a pull-up bar But I go to the gym. Okay, so you could do maps 15 You could do some of it at home some of it at the gym Basically, you're doing two exercises a day and that's it. I don't want you sprinting right now. No walking's fine Yeah Keep your steps up. Yeah walking is totally fine So if you if you want to be busy and you want something to do Walking is okay, but I don't need you doing any sort of running sprinting any of that stuff, right? We save that for later. Yeah, and you're at 1350. I'd bring you up immediately to 1550 to start It's gonna ask do I slowly go up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah slow. Yep 1550 if we bump your calories we get it from fat because you're already hitting protein. So that's taken care of So I'm not concerned about this as long as you're consistent with that. So consistently hitting your protein I've been I mean like yesterday. I only got a hundred but I try to get 120 to 130. Okay Yeah, stay consistent stay consistent with that hitting your protein. That's priority one Priority two is getting the fats up. If you bump the fats up the calories will come up to 300 calories naturally So bump it through the fats get the extra two three hundred calories follow maps anabolic We should feel strength gains and feel stronger within a couple weeks right away. Yeah that and that's our first indicator We're heading right up. I don't care about the scale Because if I bump you to 300 calories, you're gonna feel fuller you'll probably hold a little more water So the scale could go up two or three pounds. It's water. It's not fat. Don't worry about it So that's why I don't want you on the scale right now because I know that will get in your head Well, I haven't been on a month because it kept creeping back up. Yeah, okay since Florida I guess my body was under stress and all that. I Do take creatine That's good, and I don't feel like I'm lacking energy to be honest with you, but you're I don't know what that feels like Yeah, you're pretty resilient person, but you'll know the difference when you start to get that energy Jennifer Would you want to be coached through this whole process? You know, I would love it. But so another stressor. My husband was out of work for four years. So He's he's got a great job now. Thank God, but we're still getting our bills and getting out of some debt I think I could eventually figure that out Price. Yeah, no problem. We're coaching is not cheap, but we have the best in the world We also have though what's called a concierge program that a lot of people do that until they can so at least you check in Once a month with a coach who's overseeing your diet, so it's not yeah So what we can do is set you up on something like that That's very inexpensive to get going so you get consistent check-ins And then when you're ready to really ramp it up Then we can get into like full-blown coaching and so that would be my suggestion if we're on a budget because I think the value of having somebody Check in with you every month and make minor adjustments. So what's going on? I think that'll be huge Yeah, I think at least for nutrition because I'll probably be afraid of that's a hundred percent That's the main thing they focus on so I am a rule follower So the workouts I think I could do without a coach for now and I spent thousands of dollars on code Well all of it all of it is included so they'll they'll they'll actually adjust the program customize it to you there's something you don't have access to or Exercises is hurting you or you don't feel right. They'll coach to that So they'll adjust the program to you and then also adjust the diet and so and you'll check in with one of our coaches every month Yeah, so I'll have I'll have someone call you and they'll set you up on that But the hardest part is gonna be the psychological part and that's what we don't lean on them for that That's what they're there for okay in the meantime I think would you prefer to do a little bit every day or like longer workouts three days a week? Uh, well, I'm used to 40 like an hour total workouts because I do walking on my own So when I get to the gym, I'm usually just doing a box good probably a 40-minute workout Well, I think if you did maps 15 the strength training part would take about 20 minutes. The rest could be walking I'm open to whatever you think would be best. So I mentioned maps anabolic or maps 15. Those are two different things Yeah, yeah different program. We're gonna set you up with this. Don't worry I'll send you one of those and then we'll have a coach call you and then you can ask them about concierge coaching That's the one that I'm recommending. Yep. They'll take care of you general one last question Yeah, have you worked with somebody my age with this type of history? It's a majority of the people we work with you like like 90% of my clients That's why I took so long to find you guys because when I would if it was fed in my out like the algorithm works It feeds me some like podcast, but I thought it was like mostly like guy talk. No No, we're till I know the guy talk is when we're talking the irony of that even the guy talk I like so that's okay the the irony of that whenever like people ask or they say like having a woman It's like I'm more comfortable training a woman than I am a man 80% of my clients were middle-aged women going through everything you're going through. So that was like what all of us did most our career so I think Communicating to women is what we focus more on. It's what we did 20 years ago when I was We were figuring it out We were figuring this out now. We're old and wise so it's good. You got us now We got you though, we got you Keep up the great work. Thank you She's gonna get her mind blown. Yeah. Yeah, she does the right stuff. Yeah, just like everybody else who does it What is going ice of love? It was like clockwork my client would come to me it was usually like month Three or four or sometimes five or six and they would always they would always say it would always be like exactly like this I don't know like this is weird. Like how am I getting leaner? What is going on? I'm barely doing anything. What's happening? Well for someone for someone like that who who doesn't lack the discipline and effort part It's so life-changing, I mean it's life-changing for everybody but it's it's life changing. Yeah, it's different taking somebody who she thinks her body's broken Yeah, or like like she said I totally get that what she's because she does look good She looks she looks way younger than what she is So she looks great But I know what that like what that's like when you have the client who's like man I I know I I shouldn't be so hung up on the way I look at this But the amount of work and effort that I put into I you would think I would look better and it's true It's like that you should she's gonna be able to do half the effort and see more results But it's getting past that psychological hurdle. Our next caller is Derek from Massachusetts up there. Hey, dude, Eric Hey, how you doing guys? How can we help you? Well, so I this this pass up first of all, thanks for anything you guys do love love listening guys while I work out 50 year old from the Boston area Broke my wrist playing hockey back in July July 14th Pretty bad break just kind of landed wrong on it Required surgery ended up with a plate and about 10 screws in there That was on July 22nd. I had the surgery. So I'm about 11 weeks out from there and Kind of you know still doing I met with the surgeon yesterday He says says I'm good to go if I want to start playing hockey again My ot is kind of pumping the brakes a little bit. I'm still just strengthening it Obviously haven't Beared much weight with that wrist in three months now almost so just kind of right now working with like a Theraband flex bar and doing still try to get the mobility back in the wrist, right? So You know, I'm obviously gonna progress back to hockey, but more importantly I want to be able to kind of lift weights again I have a little gym in my basement that I love And I love listening you guys while I'm in there working out So looking for a way to ease into I feel like I have an opportunity here to kind of start from scratch right and kind Of maybe work on some weaknesses that I've had in my skating alone I know I'm always kind of weaker going to one side So I started doing some squats and some lateral squats recently and that's kind of where I'm at So kind of just looking for any advice or guidance you guys may have to as I'm recovering from this How many days a week will we be playing hockey just out of curiosity? I usually play two so I'm in a league on one night's then play like a pickup thing on Friday night So and you're gonna be doing that also at this time, or are you gonna strike first? No, I'm gonna strengthen first I don't I don't want to get back on you nice to like get a little strength back So I'm targeting the January time frame for okay. Cool. All right, and we're and how long has it been since you've worked out 11 weeks? So with weights or anything since July and then I've been doing squats for a couple weeks now Body weight squats and lateral squats and stuff like that. So some Bulgarian split squats I got the perfect program for you go maps 15 performance. That's how you're gonna start Okay, all right mass 15, but do you have that one? Uh, I have one of the 15. I think I might have Thank you. Yeah. No, let's go. Let's go maps 15 performance just because we're gonna get you ready to play hockey again We'll send that to you So it's a little bit more functional and it's gonna be perfect for ramp and you'll see strength gains every single week on that Especially because you're just getting back into it. Yeah, any particular exercises To avoid as I'm kind of progressing not avoid as much as I would say to continue to focus on the wrist mobility stuff That you're doing already don't just because you feel healed or get better. Don't stop doing that. You'll want to continue Yeah, you'll want to continue to do that I think that's a mistake a lot of people do they go through their kind of their rehab they get better they heal and then They just kind of leave it and it's like that, you know, you'll want to continue to challenge the range of motion And mobility and the wrist that's one an isometric stuff, you know, so when you're doing that Get it to the end ranges and create an isometric in that that'll help gain some strength and mobility And continue that that'll really help you ever use you ever use a rice bucket for hand and wrist mobility Have you heard of that before? No. Oh, that's amazing. Awesome, dude So you get a bucket you fill it up five five gallon bucket full of rice and you stick your hand in it so all the way in and then you open your fingers and move your wrist around and squeeze your hand and just move into different ranges of motion and the rice just provides a Resistance, it's beautiful and it's wonderful for strengthening essentially every direction you move in there and the rice bucket. There's resistance. Oh, that's cool I haven't heard that one yet for my OT, but she gave me some potty recently I'm kind of just gripping it and squeezing that that's a little a little difficult right now. So yeah, I'm still you know I'm still kind of really getting back into it So now the rice bucket is cool because you can squeeze in it But you can also work with opening the fingers a wrist extension roll. Yeah rolling lateral Yeah, so it's every direction and you would do that like twice a day. So twice a day you go in there Play with it for five minutes get out do it again later in the day. That'll make a big difference It's super it's super inexpensive easy way to do it. Yeah, it's like a more like when I go like this way It's I'm less flexible than going back actually, right? Yeah Functional anyway, but there's like scar tissue there with an incision was and everything You know that's what that's why this would be Important to continue to do this because what will happen like I said people will let it heal and then you'll that then you'll have This limited range of motion because it'll be all scar tissued up and you'll kind of be locked and then people are like well That's all I get now. It's like no you can get that all back But we got to work we got to work through it consistently And the rice bucket is perfect for this because you can do all directions and you get resistance We're like squeezing like a you know, one of those flex grips or like a putty. Yeah, all you're doing is just flex You're just getting flexion. You're not getting extension You're not getting rotation any sort of dynamic movement in the wrist. You want to really challenge every direction every direction I want to take it to its end range Create like an isometric inside the rice open up go the other direction Roll the wrist spread the fingers close the finger like you're doing that for a good five minutes While you're watching TV or something don't go crazy with it. Yeah, it must have been like five minutes in it. Yeah Okay, they also Ordered me this jazz machine. That's like you put on your arm and then it kind of cranks your wrist down or up Does it pull your hand down or up or do you push it down? Yeah Yeah I think when you turn the knob it kind of slowly brings it up or down and I'm kind of trying to I just got a Call it took like three weeks for it to come in now. I just got the call Whether or not I want it. I'm trying to figure out if I want it my surgeon's like well, it's another tool you know if it's not gonna cost you too much I'd go ahead and get it but Have you guys any experience with that at all? Yeah, so not specifically with that but that so that's that's passive Okay, so what it sounds like is it brings your wrist down for you? Yeah, which is okay But what we're saying with resistance in the rice bucket is it's not passive You're actively bringing your hand into these different positions. Now. There is a benefit to passive Flexibility, but without being able to activate stability in that range of motion. It doesn't do much So you always have to strengthen no matter what so I would get it if it's not too expensive if you get it and use it this is what it would look like I Would crank it to that in range to where it's uncomfortable to where I get to and then I create an isometric in that position What you don't want to do is just crank it there and relax. You want to crank it there and then create maybe oppose it Yes, and squeeze foot. Yes work against it What that is where you'll get the real benefit from that if you just allow it to passively Bring you there and back like you're not you're not learning to fire the neurons in that position And so as soon as you take the machine off, you'll you won't be able to go there But if you connect by doing isometrics in that position You're training those neurons to fire into that in that new range of motion and that is that can be good for but it's got To be used properly And when you say the isometric you saying to kind of bring it down or bring it I would I would oppose it oppose it So you're bringing you down and when you get there, yeah push up against it push against it and then relax What's cool? If you've ever heard us talk about isometrics is you get 15 degrees both directions In other words, you bring it to there and you're opposing it like Sal saying but you still get the benefits going 15 degree both ways Okay, cool. Cool. Awesome. You got it, dude. So we'll send you man 15 performance Awesome. Thank you very much. I did stuff man. Yeah, it is. All right. Take care guys. Thanks for everything. You got it I 15 degrees right? It's 15 degrees in the direction you're pushing. Oh, I thought it was both direction No, you'd have to activate and push in that direction Otherwise, it's just the direction you're going 15 degrees for the muscle that you're activating. That's what is that what you're thinking? Yeah, okay Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, you know The rice bucket in my opinion is one of the best wrist strengthening. Oh, yeah finger strengthening wrist mobility devices ever because it provides resistance in every Direction you move, you know most wrist machines hand machines. It's like one direction action, you got to do another direction. No one can close the fingers. When you open the fingers, one flexes the wrist. One extends the wrist. One works laterally, but in the rice bucket, you're like moving all over the place. So it's like, uh, it's like rehabbing your hip or knee in the pool, which is, it's, that's what makes the pool so special for that is it's, you get this dynamic resistance in any direction and it's low enough that if you go slow, it's hard. You go harder, faster. It's all right. Right. And so you can really control that. Um, and harder to overdo it. You can still overdo it. Um, but harder to overdo it. Yeah, no, I think it's a, a great tool, especially for what he's got going on. Our next caller is Brock from Utah. So Brock, how you doing Brock? Hey, how's it going guys? Good dude. How can we help you? Hey, so, um, called in a while ago and I, I got the advice that you recommended me when I was working on the night shift and I enjoyed it. Um, you gave me maps 15 symmetry and I enjoyed the program, my wife and I were both doing it. We were really enjoying it. And then we recently started IDF and because of that, she was told, Hey, yeah, we don't want you to do this and this and this when you're going through this procedure. So we decided to, um, change it up once we got done with that and we're able to lift again. And now I'm just kind of struggling getting back into, um, fitness and like lifting. I don't know whether it's like the novelty of something new or I feel like I'm not doing enough. Um, and so I was just kind of wondering what I should transition to. Um, we are trying to focus on her health for, um, the embryo transfer that we have coming up, but also we both like to lift heavy and yeah. If you don't work out with your wife, do you still work out? Um, occasionally I do more, um, mobility. I'm using prime pro. Um, if I am getting up by myself and working out, I like to work out in the morning and so does she, so I generally use prime pro or if I, I am filling up to it, I will work out by myself on occasion, but generally it's just prime pro. So home gym, you have a home gym. Um, we have dumbbells and then I ordered a doormat pull-up bar for prime deals. Just that way I can use, um, more of you guys programs. So explain what is consistency versus inconsistency look like? Is it like consistency? Is that workout inconsistency as I'm doing nothing? Yeah. Are you all or nothing or what are you? Um, so I wouldn't say I'm all or nothing. Um, I have a very active job. Um, I'm averaging 15,000 steps a week. Um, a high days looking 20 to 22,000 steps. Um, and so I'm really active that way. Um, but I just listen to the podcast a lot. I know that it's important to have strength training and to have that balanced in. And so I feel like I need to do more in that sense and it's with strength training, it is either I am or I'm not. And I dunno, I just, I kind of go through these phases of, oh, I can do more. I want to do more. And so if I decide, oh, I don't feel like maps 15 feels enough. I don't know like what to change. Cause I feel like I'm already getting a lot of steps in for each day and this, the workout just isn't feeling like enough. I know you, you own a lot of our programs. Have you, have you considered, um, having someone kind of coach you? So you have accountability and you have somebody who's kind of put yourself, that's what I'm kind of hearing from you. Like you feel that way about yourself that maybe something like that would be good. Yeah, I have looked into it and I've talked with my wife and just right now we don't feel like we're financially in a good spot to do. Uh, training. Um, I did just listen to another, uh, caller where you actually recommended the concierge service. So I was wondering if maybe something like that could help. It'd be great. I think it'd be great for you. Very inexpensive, uh, but still enough. And you're, you're obviously not like a beginner or don't know what to do at all. You, you have several of our programs. What they would do is they would, they would modify it for your current lifestyle, what you have going on and what you're doing, change it up as needed to keep it interesting and fun for you. Also dive into your diet and it's just a once a month check-in. And so because of that, because you have that accountability piece, um, so long as you're good about following the directions for the next, you know, three to four weeks, uh, I think you'd be really beneficial for someone like you. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I like that, dude. That's a good option. I can have someone call you, you know, here's the thing with consistency. So what you're saying is you're, you're not strength training right now. You're just doing your work. Yeah. Okay. So here's the deal. The all or nothing approach looks like this, either I do all these workouts or I don't do these smaller workouts. Cause I feel like it's a waste of time. Is that what you're thinking? Not that it's like a waste of time. I just feel like I'm not getting like the best bang for my buck kind of situation. So that's a fallacy because a little bit is better than nothing. A lot better than nothing. And here's the deal. They're, uh, creating habits. Uh, there's neural pathways that build in the brain and they tell you that it don't do anything. And the way you change those neural pathways is by doing something and doing something's better than doing nothing. And so you just start like that. That's it. Cause right now you're doing nothing. Even, even if it was, and I know you've been probably listening for a long time too, so you've probably heard me talk about this, one of the biggest, like pivotal moments in my own personal journey of becoming more consistent is like giving myself that permission. Yeah. I might not do the full workout. I might just go in there and just do three sets of squats or three sets of overhead press, and that might be all I do, cause that's all I'm motivated to do right now, or I don't feel like, and it's not a waste of time if there's a lot of value, not just from the actual exercise, but to Sal's point, the psychological piece of, I did something in the right direction of what I was trying to do and you build momentum. And I can't tell you how many times I gave myself that permission of, I'm only going to go in and do three sets of squats and three sets of squats turned into a good workout. Right. Yeah. And even if it doesn't, that's okay. I don't, it's like, all right. I, at least I did that right on. It makes a big, it actually makes a big difference. It does. And you know, look at it this way too. Look at it. It's just a part of your day. I wake up, I do one or two exercises, I go to work. Like if you did that, if you did that five days a week, that's huge. That's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Five days a week. If you did one or two exercises a day, you did 10, you know, you had two exercises, that's 10 lifts a week. That you did, you know, that'd be like doing two workouts, five lifts. See what I'm saying? Yeah. I see. So if you just make it a part of your day, you wake up 30 minutes early, you do, you know, one dumbbell exercise, one pull-up exercise or whatever, like bro, you're, you're fire by the way. You know, that's how Adam's working out right now. Yeah. That's a hundred percent Adams workout right now. I actually don't even get all five days all the time. So it's a lot, a lot of times it's four days, so you'd be surprised how far you make, here's the thing too, from a, like even more, we all know that we have good days of eating and then we have other days that are not as good eating. When you have a day that was not great at eating, you overate on some calories, but you at least got those squat, those three sets of squats in earlier that day. Those extra calories get partitioned over helping you build muscle. If you just skip those three sets of squats and you overeat, it's all going to Brock maps 15 is how I hit my 605 pound deadlift at the age of 44. And I had no idea that was going to happen. I literally was just experimenting with the program. We had just released it. I was just testing it out and I was just hitting PRS left and right. Couldn't believe it. Wow. Yeah. So, so it's, so it's, it's not nothing dude, and it's actually pretty damn good. And to be honest with you, a guy who's trying to have a baby who works, sounds like you got a pretty, you know, active job, it's probably the right kind of program for you anyway. Okay. Yeah. All right. I want to see you in the concierge though. I think, I think that you'll get a lot of benefit from that. You get on a coach, you get with a coach once a month, they'll modify this kind of workout, they'll walk you through with diet, bro, it'll be fire. Yeah. Dude. So, uh, it's such a fallacy that a little bit is like, well, I should probably be doing more. And then what happens is it becomes the enemy of you doing anything. Yeah. And so you do nothing. And I'm listening. I'm telling people right now, uh, I hit a PR in deadlifts that I thought I wouldn't be able to touch. I did that. My first PR was 600 pounds at my early thirties, 44 years old. They did six Oh five on accident. Following something like that. You're doing it right now, getting shredded and looking great. Better than you have a long time. Like people listen, it works. Well, we've all shared stories of like big pivotal moments in our own training journey. And I was very much so even as a trainer. Okay. I was very much so an all or nothing trainer. I was training like crazy, dying like crazy, or I was off. And I, uh, then what it looked like is this back and forth pendulum where, you know, I let my body fat creep up, I ate out, I did all the things and there was like, Oh, then I will it back in. And then it just kept doing this. And a lot of that had to do with exactly what he's describing right now is I had this attitude of what's the, what's such a waste if I'm not eating perfect and I, and I don't, I don't do a full workout. Like I'm not really moving the needle. I could be, so why waste my time? And that was such a fallacy and giving myself the permission to, you know, I don't feel like working out. I'm not in the mood, but I can go get three sets of squats in what a huge difference. And like you said, half the time you end up doing more anyway. Yes. It's so, it's such a, and it's so freeing. It's so much easier. Uh, but you have to, you have to be able to give yourself that permission that it's okay that you just do that, but boy, it does move the needle a lot more than people realize. Our next caller is Jesse from North Carolina. Hi Jesse. Hi Jesse. Hey, how you doing? Good. How are you? Good. Bear with my background. I'm, I'm on my lunch break. I work for the post office. How can we help you? Okay. So I'm trying to summarize this, this email that I sent you. So basically, um, started GOP1, um, about three years ago, I was 364 pounds and I'm currently a 161 to 165. Um, back in March, I had a tummy tuck, lipo, brachialplasty. Um, and since recovering, I switched my focus to try to start toning and, um, and lifting. I lift every day. I've built a pretty nice home gym. Um, and I recently purchased, uh, my obstetrics for weight later. Um, I can see some definition and muscles in certain places coming through. Um, but my biggest struggle is I, I will probably forever count calories. And I've heard you guys talk about that. Um, mentally, if that scale goes over 165, I don't like it. Um, so my biggest question to you guys is with 165 being my, my top, uh, my psychological ceiling, um, can I noticeably build a more muscular physique while maintaining that 161 to 165 range? You know, how do I go about setting these calories? Because, um, when I was really losing before I got surgery, I would say I ate 1,550 calories a day. Um, I eat around 1,700 a day now and I'm, I'm full and I get my protein in between 160 to 200 grams of protein a day. But, um, psychologically I cannot, if I go over 165, it's just, I'm waiting three times a day to see if I drop underneath. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Of course. That's the case. By the way. Excellent job. Yeah. Incredible journey. Yeah. It's a, you're a whole different person, huh? What a journey. Yeah, most definitely. I definitely feel a lot better. That's for sure. That's so, that's so phenomenal. So you're at this, you're at another hurdle. So you overcame the biggest hurdle. The biggest hurdle was just getting that, getting the weight down, changing eating habits, changing activity levels. The next hurdle now is the fear of going back. And that one could, that one can last a lifetime. Sometimes people just never get over that. I don't think that's going to happen with you because you're calling us, uh, and you're, you seem to be pretty aware of it. So here's what the next stage looks like for you when you're ready. Okay. When you're ready, you are going to track, but you're going to track less things. You're going to track protein intake. You're going to stick to whole natural foods. Okay. So don't go off whole natural foods. Eat when you do that a lot. My wife and I, we cook every day. So I figured, I figured. So whole natural foods eat when you're hungry. Okay. So you're not going to be tracking carbs and fats. So hit your protein, attract your protein, whole natural foods, eat until you're satisfied. Don't eat until your stuff, but eat until you're satisfied. And then the third thing you track is strength. Okay. Am I getting stronger in my lifts? If your strength plateaus, it's either the program or you're not eating enough. It's one of the two. Right. So I'll send you a program. How many days a week you're working out right now? Um, I do anabolic and I do the, I'm in phase one. Now I did pre-phase for probably six weeks. Um, just to extend it a little bit. I'm in phase one now and I do it. I'm supposed to do it too, but I do the main lifts three days a week. Um, and I do the trigger days, two days. And how's your strength? How's your strength? It's definitely increased. Um, I can tell you after my surgery, uh, my doctor harped big on the protein. Um, when I started the shots, I started on semi glutide and I really didn't listen to that. I was just so excited to be losing weight that I, I didn't count protein. You know, I just, I wasn't hungry. I didn't eat well, my body become immune to that. And I introduced a microdose of trizepatide. I'm one of the few people I know to take both. Um, and so basically when I started taking trizepatide, that's when I started counting. Um, I got really. tricks with my eating and, you know, it, it totally was a game changer. So, you know, that's, that was really, I still take a microdose, um, every other week, like a very small, you know, I take a five to 10 units every other week. So it's just like a mental thing. So just something just to be aware of. So there's, there's two, there's two kinds of slavery when it comes to, uh, our bodies, one kind of slavery is I eat whatever I want. I don't pay attention and I'm a slave to my cravings. I'm a slave to the things I want to eat in activity. There's another side of slavery. We see this in the fitness space a lot, which is I'm a slavery to my macros. I'm a slavery to my calories. I'm a slavery to, I need to exercise. Yeah. And both of those can be dysfunctional and both of those can cause a lot of problem. I'm very familiar with this one over here, because this is where I've, I've been many times. Yeah. And so I like, uh, I like maps 15 for you for your workout. I like you tracking your steps, trying to get, you know, eight to 10,000 steps a day, and then, yeah, he got it. And then with your food intake, hit protein, stick to whole natural foods and try to learn how to eat until you're satisfied, but there's a difference between satisfied and full, right? Satisfied is 80% of full. So you eat and you're like, I'm still a little hungry. You a little more. You're like, I think I'm good. And then just kind of do that. And then watch your strength go up and you should get stronger with maps 15, you're going to get stronger pretty much week over week for a little while. If you're, if you're getting stronger, you're, you're, you're moving in the right direction. Like strength goes up, muscle goes up. That's how it works. Gotcha. And that's it. And then the step away from the tracking of everything down to the tracking of protein and then just being strict with whole natural foods is the next progression. Eventually the progression looks like you're not tracking anything, but that's a while from now. You're, you're probably a year, a year or so away from that. Jesse, run me down, run me down yesterday's meats that you ate and your sources of protein. I can probably pull it. Well, people on the phone, um, I usually take, uh, two eggs mixed with egg whites, um, either ground beef or chicken that's my breakfast or I make like, I call it a protein bombs, you know, the Greek yogurt, protein powder for protein cereal mixed together. Um, then for lunch, I usually have either some type of lunch meat or like the Buffalo chicken or tuna packets I put on like a keto bun. Um, then for dinner, it's usually with double, double protein steak because it's the lowest calorie of course. Um, and then usually, uh, nine, 10, nine, 10 o'clock. Cause I don't go to bed till probably 11, 11, 12. Um, usually I eat some type of high protein, like tuna and lettuce. Um, some type of bowl like that before bed, but usually I hit between 160 to 200 grams a day. Yeah, I love, I love, uh, your, your protein, your consistency in your meals, the, uh, without getting into the tracking, the calories allow yourself to be okay with the four whole eggs instead of the egg whites. Allow yourself sometimes instead of just tuna, you can have red meat, like allow the extra fats in there. The healthy fats are fine. It is not only positively, uh, and who cares that it pushes the calories two or 300 more calories. Those healthy fats will serve you in your journey. And so that little micro adjustment is something that I would make in your choices, like if you're hungry, eat, don't feel like you have to eat the tuna because the tuna is 300 calories less than the ribeye or the ground beef or whatever other choice you would have made, like don't eat two eggs and egg whites because you're trying to keep the calories down and have four eggs. Totally fine. That stuff is okay. Like that is good for you. And we want those healthy fats and it'll serve you. And it's an easy way that will naturally start to bring the calories up a little bit in this reverse diet, which will build muscle, which will help you build muscle. So, so that recently switched to more seafood. I used to be, if we would not eat, um, a steak connoisseur, we was, you know, we would eat steak. Um, now I find the seafood I like and I order it. So yeah, I should probably add some of that back in. One more thing. This is going to be the most difficult thing, Jesse is, uh, and I'm, and you gotta be honest with me because if, if this doesn't work, then we'll scale it back, but I'd like for you to not weigh yourself for the next 60 days. I broke myself from every day to once a week. And that was really tough. And like I said, if I go over one 65, when I come home from work, I'm going to weigh again to see if I'm under one 65. Yeah. Be careful. Be careful though. Yeah, I could, um, probably, I could probably make a deal with you and do 30 days. Let's do 30. Cause here's, here's why, here's why Jesse, if I can get you to eat a little bit more fat through your than that's by higher fat meats, that's, you're going to get a little more calories. We got a reverse diet. If you want to build muscle, you want to continue to build your body. Uh, we've got, we've got a reverse diet. And so trying to do it the way I'm saying is one of the easiest ways to do it. That doesn't change a lot of what you got going on. Just eat some, some fattier meats. That's it. Or eat all eggs. Now, what will happen is you're now eating higher calorie and, and, and you're going to see a little bit of water weight. People mistake that water weight for fat. They freak out and they go the other direction. And that's why I'd want you to stay away from the scale, because I don't care if it goes up two pounds. Cause what will happen is it'll go up like two, two or three pounds and then it'll plateau and it'll stay there. And all that is water. All I'd have to do is pull that water out of you and you drop right back down. It doesn't mean we lost fat. It doesn't mean we gain fat. It just means you're holding more water in your body, which is totally fine. Or you can build muscle, which is going to show up on the scale, which is why, which is also why delaying for like 30 days is a better way to do it. During that time, hopefully we'll start to see some strength gains and you'll see visual change that you like, and you'll be like, oh, this is good. And then you might look at the scale and you're like, oh shit. It says I'm four pounds heavier, but you already told yourself I like, I could tell I look better. And so maybe, and that's where you start to make peace with the scale a little bit more as you realize, cause you're not a slave to it every day or every week where you're constantly over managing it. You allow yourself some time to build some strength, let your body change a little bit, be happy with what you feel and see, and then, oh wow, maybe the scale doesn't match with what you think. Who gives a shit? Because you know, you feel better. You know, you look better. Who cares that it says four or five pounds, you know what I'm saying? Otherwise the scale right now is tyrannizing. It definitely is. I did set myself up. Um, I'm a really good integrative doctor that I've been going to this whole time and I'm going to do a DEXA scan. So maybe that will help me balance. Like you said, like, okay, I can see that I'm gaining muscle here and losing fat. I mean, I really don't have much, much more fat to lose. I mean, that I could think of, um, you know, you're, you're, you're five, eight, you're, you're tall. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're tall and your weight is good. Um, my ex walked around at one 75, one 80 and she was a figure competitor. Okay. So you're talking about getting on state. So you are plenty low enough, lean enough. It's muscle that we need to put on. And then that's why your, your scale weight doesn't matter to me. You could easily, you could easily love the way you look and feel and be 15 pounds heavier. I guarantee it. You'll. So that's why we break away from it as long as we can add the calories. I can give you a 30 day break. All right. I can get strong. Just, just fall in love with the strength gains. That'll make it fun. And then, and then, and then Jesse, I mean, promise me this, uh, because I know that this can be challenging. Like Sal said, this can be a life on it. If you, if you find yourself still strong, reach back out and then allow us to coach you through this process. We have trainers that take people through this all the time. And so if you find yourself having a real hard time with it, uh, it's very normal. We have, we have a fact. I'd say a good percentage of our people are on GLP ones that we help out because they, because it can be so tough. So reach back out and we'll take care of you. Oh, I will. For sure. For sure. All right. Good job. You're doing great. All right. Doing great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye bye. She'll do good. Yeah. Especially if she has fun getting strong. Yeah. Especially if she has fun getting strong. Yeah. And in a, in a decent place, we're not, uh, deathly scary, low calorie wise. Um, it's low, especially Samara carrier. So she walks a lot. Oh yeah. And it's lower than it needs to be, but it's not so low that she's like, and I had a feeling, so I wanted to have her walk through her diet for her calories to be that low and her hit her protein. I had a feeling she was doing a lot of like tuna. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Making a lot of low calorie, uh, lean, low fat. Being too low fat feels like crap. Regardless of where your calories are, it just feels terrible. Horrible. Yeah. Look, if you like the show, come check us out on Instagram. It's mind pump media. Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB super bundle includes maps, anabolic mass performance and maps nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB super bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price, the RGB super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee, and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is mind pump.