How To Have The Hardest Conversations of Your Life - Jefferson Fisher

Why do you think people are struggling Why do you think people are struggling with the communication? Because it's with the communication? Because it's with the communication? Because it's something that wasn't taught to them. It something that wasn't taught to them. It something that wasn't taught to them. It was only modeled, you know, and a lot of was only modeled, you know, and a lot of was only modeled, you know, and a lot of people didn't have good models. They people didn't have good models. They people didn't have good models. They they had people in their lives that saw they had people in their lives that saw they had people in their lives that saw conflict as something that they had to conflict as something that they had to conflict as something that they had to have in order to feel close to each have in order to feel close to each have in order to feel close to each other. They saw how yelling was the only other. They saw how yelling was the only other. They saw how yelling was the only way to possibly stop something or maybe way to possibly stop something or maybe way to possibly stop something or maybe get physical was the only way to prove a get physical was the only way to prove a get physical was the only way to prove a point. And so there's a lot of people point. And so there's a lot of people point. And so there's a lot of people who haven't had communication modeled who haven't had communication modeled who haven't had communication modeled well in their life. And there's a lot of well in their life. And there's a lot of well in their life. And there's a lot of books you can read and there's a lot of books you can read and there's a lot of books you can read and there's a lot of things you can do, but not until you've things you can do, but not until you've things you can do, but not until you've actually done it can you ever start actually done it can you ever start actually done it can you ever start actually improving in it. actually improving in it. actually improving in it. >> It's like that Mike Tyson quote. >> It's like that Mike Tyson quote. >> It's like that Mike Tyson quote. Everybody's got a plan until you get Everybody's got a plan until you get Everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face. punched in the face. punched in the face. >> Yeah. Until they get popped in the >> Yeah. Until they get popped in the >> Yeah. Until they get popped in the mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of people mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of people mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of people fear conflict, but in communication fear conflict, but in communication fear conflict, but in communication especially, especially, especially, >> why is it so scary? Why is conflict so >> why is it so scary? Why is conflict so >> why is it so scary? Why is conflict so hard to navigate? hard to navigate? hard to navigate? >> It takes courage. Like people feel like >> It takes courage. Like people feel like >> It takes courage. Like people feel like yelling and being aggressive. That's yelling and being aggressive. That's yelling and being aggressive. That's that's strength. It's not um that's strength. It's not um that's strength. It's not um being somebody who can handle conflict being somebody who can handle conflict being somebody who can handle conflict calmly and know that you're going to get calmly and know that you're going to get calmly and know that you're going to get through it and there's going to be an through it and there's going to be an through it and there's going to be an end to it. That takes a lot of courage. end to it. That takes a lot of courage. end to it. That takes a lot of courage. I think a lot of people are afraid of I think a lot of people are afraid of I think a lot of people are afraid of that vulnerability. That's a word that that vulnerability. That's a word that that vulnerability. That's a word that men in particular find that that's men in particular find that that's men in particular find that that's something that is some kind of no-go something that is some kind of no-go something that is some kind of no-go zone when actually that's the one thing zone when actually that's the one thing zone when actually that's the one thing they probably most need. You know, some they probably most need. You know, some they probably most need. You know, some people instead of just a shouting match, people instead of just a shouting match, people instead of just a shouting match, they really just need a hug. And so it's they really just need a hug. And so it's they really just need a hug. And so it's it's it's it's it's it's it's this unknown for a lot of people. And this unknown for a lot of people. And this unknown for a lot of people. And how how do you how do you not say the how how do you how do you not say the how how do you how do you not say the wrong thing? And so there's that that wrong thing? And so there's that that wrong thing? And so there's that that fear and fear often is masked in forms fear and fear often is masked in forms fear and fear often is masked in forms of anger. So it's a lot easier to get of anger. So it's a lot easier to get of anger. So it's a lot easier to get defensive and yell than it is to defensive and yell than it is to defensive and yell than it is to actually lean across and work through actually lean across and work through actually lean across and work through something hard. something hard. something hard. >> Why do you think people lose control so >> Why do you think people lose control so >> Why do you think people lose control so quickly in conversations? quickly in conversations? quickly in conversations? Because it takes no effort. It it takes Because it takes no effort. It it takes Because it takes no effort. It it takes takes zero takes zero takes zero uh effort to yell and get defensive and uh effort to yell and get defensive and uh effort to yell and get defensive and raise your voice. That there's no raise your voice. That there's no raise your voice. That there's no struggle in that. It takes a whole lot struggle in that. It takes a whole lot struggle in that. It takes a whole lot more strength to be able to take a more strength to be able to take a more strength to be able to take a breath, slow things down, say things breath, slow things down, say things breath, slow things down, say things more calmly. And so it's it's just an more calmly. And so it's it's just an more calmly. And so it's it's just an easier path. That neuropathway is a lot easier path. That neuropathway is a lot easier path. That neuropathway is a lot easier. And it's it's just something easier. And it's it's just something easier. And it's it's just something that's organic in our bodies. It's part that's organic in our bodies. It's part that's organic in our bodies. It's part of the fight or flight. Every time you of the fight or flight. Every time you of the fight or flight. Every time you hear a disagreement or something that's hear a disagreement or something that's hear a disagreement or something that's a different opinion that you don't like. a different opinion that you don't like. a different opinion that you don't like. >> Uh we naturally our whole body goes, >> Uh we naturally our whole body goes, >> Uh we naturally our whole body goes, "No, I don't think I like that. That "No, I don't think I like that. That "No, I don't think I like that. That doesn't sound good to me. That that doesn't sound good to me. That that doesn't sound good to me. That that conflicts with something I believe that conflicts with something I believe that conflicts with something I believe that conflicts with something I grew up conflicts with something I grew up conflicts with something I grew up knowing cuz my dad believed this. My mom knowing cuz my dad believed this. My mom knowing cuz my dad believed this. My mom believed this." And all of a sudden, believed this." And all of a sudden, believed this." And all of a sudden, that's why facts and evidence typically that's why facts and evidence typically that's why facts and evidence typically don't matter when it comes to changing don't matter when it comes to changing don't matter when it comes to changing somebody's mind. It has a lot to do with somebody's mind. It has a lot to do with somebody's mind. It has a lot to do with how you've communicated in a way the how how you've communicated in a way the how how you've communicated in a way the how you've made them feel about it. I've you've made them feel about it. I've you've made them feel about it. I've always thought that facts don't care always thought that facts don't care always thought that facts don't care about your feelings line could not be about your feelings line could not be about your feelings line could not be more backward. more backward. more backward. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Feelings don't give a single [ __ ] about >> Feelings don't give a single [ __ ] about >> Feelings don't give a single [ __ ] about the facts. the facts. the facts. >> Yeah, they don't. >> Yeah, they don't. >> Yeah, they don't. >> They don't care about the facts. >> They don't care about the facts. >> They don't care about the facts. >> What is happening in your body when you >> What is happening in your body when you >> What is happening in your body when you get triggered? get triggered? get triggered? >> It's the same thing of physical danger. >> It's the same thing of physical danger. >> It's the same thing of physical danger. Like our bodies don't do well at Like our bodies don't do well at Like our bodies don't do well at deciphering between a social danger, deciphering between a social danger, deciphering between a social danger, meaning are they confronting me, meaning are they confronting me, meaning are they confronting me, offending me, coming into my space? Is offending me, coming into my space? Is offending me, coming into my space? Is my autonomy being questioned? Is my my autonomy being questioned? Is my my autonomy being questioned? Is my authority being questioned from a authority being questioned from a authority being questioned from a physical danger? So, it's the same physical danger? So, it's the same physical danger? So, it's the same thing. Your your pupils dilate to take thing. Your your pupils dilate to take thing. Your your pupils dilate to take in more light, meaning it's kind of like in more light, meaning it's kind of like in more light, meaning it's kind of like that portrait mode on Apple to where that portrait mode on Apple to where that portrait mode on Apple to where your everything kind of goes fuzzy in your everything kind of goes fuzzy in your everything kind of goes fuzzy in the background. Your your your fists the background. Your your your fists the background. Your your your fists clench, your jaw clenches. That's why a clench, your jaw clenches. That's why a clench, your jaw clenches. That's why a lot of the times you start yelling and lot of the times you start yelling and lot of the times you start yelling and people go, "Why are you yelling at you?" people go, "Why are you yelling at you?" people go, "Why are you yelling at you?" I'm not yelling. It's because your I'm not yelling. It's because your I'm not yelling. It's because your breath has like your breath has nowhere breath has like your breath has nowhere breath has like your breath has nowhere else to go, right? It's it's because else to go, right? It's it's because else to go, right? It's it's because you've been holding you've been holding you've been holding >> you've been holding your breath because >> you've been holding your breath because >> you've been holding your breath because you're ready. Like your body doesn't you're ready. Like your body doesn't you're ready. Like your body doesn't know, is there a bear behind the bush? know, is there a bear behind the bush? know, is there a bear behind the bush? It's like it's like the same if I were It's like it's like the same if I were It's like it's like the same if I were to text you. I said, "If I if I texted to text you. I said, "If I if I texted to text you. I said, "If I if I texted Chris and I said, "We need to talk." Chris and I said, "We need to talk." Chris and I said, "We need to talk." Period. Period. Period. >> First thing you go is, "What' I do? >> First thing you go is, "What' I do? >> First thing you go is, "What' I do? What's wrong? What happened?" It's it's What's wrong? What happened?" It's it's What's wrong? What happened?" It's it's that it's that anxiety. It's that it's that it's that anxiety. It's that it's that it's that anxiety. It's that it's that fear. that fear. that fear. >> Have you seen there's some reels >> Have you seen there's some reels >> Have you seen there's some reels floating around of people saying uh floating around of people saying uh floating around of people saying uh amazing ways to connect with your amazing ways to connect with your amazing ways to connect with your partner? And it's all stuff like that. partner? And it's all stuff like that. partner? And it's all stuff like that. We need to talk. Exactly. What did you We need to talk. Exactly. What did you We need to talk. Exactly. What did you do? Like all of these weird open loops. do? Like all of these weird open loops. do? Like all of these weird open loops. And when I think about it, I think a lot And when I think about it, I think a lot And when I think about it, I think a lot of it is the openness. Mhm. of it is the openness. Mhm. of it is the openness. Mhm. >> It's the fact that there is the >> It's the fact that there is the >> It's the fact that there is the potential for things to go wrong, but as potential for things to go wrong, but as potential for things to go wrong, but as yet no conclusion, yet no conclusion, yet no conclusion, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And in that vacuum is where all of the >> And in that vacuum is where all of the >> And in that vacuum is where all of the speculation gets sucked. speculation gets sucked. speculation gets sucked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Typically, especially if there's a >> Typically, especially if there's a >> Typically, especially if there's a little bit of activation or agitation little bit of activation or agitation little bit of activation or agitation with that, that is where with that, that is where with that, that is where >> Yeah. everything just gets pulled in. >> Yeah. everything just gets pulled in. >> Yeah. everything just gets pulled in. >> Oh, it because it it expands. I mean, it >> Oh, it because it it expands. I mean, it >> Oh, it because it it expands. I mean, it can be just like a bomb. That's that's can be just like a bomb. That's that's can be just like a bomb. That's that's what happens when you usually start with what happens when you usually start with what happens when you usually start with context first or a lot of unknown first context first or a lot of unknown first context first or a lot of unknown first that we need to talk period. that we need to talk period. that we need to talk period. >> Uh or if you just respond K, >> Uh or if you just respond K, >> Uh or if you just respond K, >> you know what I mean, >> you know what I mean, >> you know what I mean, >> dude. Mine the [ __ ] thumbs up >> dude. Mine the [ __ ] thumbs up >> dude. Mine the [ __ ] thumbs up reaction emoji. That's reaction emoji. That's reaction emoji. That's >> the most passive aggressive [ __ ] >> the most passive aggressive [ __ ] >> the most passive aggressive [ __ ] >> Yeah, that that's that's more harmful >> Yeah, that that's that's more harmful >> Yeah, that that's that's more harmful often than like giving them the middle often than like giving them the middle often than like giving them the middle finger on the like finger on the like finger on the like >> I would rather you tell me to [ __ ] off. >> I would rather you tell me to [ __ ] off. >> I would rather you tell me to [ __ ] off. Like that thumbs up is is just the worst Like that thumbs up is is just the worst Like that thumbs up is is just the worst thing you could have possibly done. It's thing you could have possibly done. It's thing you could have possibly done. It's like you have a K in there. It's like I like you have a K in there. It's like I like you have a K in there. It's like I didn't care enough about you to put a O didn't care enough about you to put a O didn't care enough about you to put a O right in front of it. That's how little right in front of it. That's how little right in front of it. That's how little that's how little I care about you in that's how little I care about you in that's how little I care about you in that moment. So it's like, you know, that moment. So it's like, you know, that moment. So it's like, you know, you're creating that unknown and that you're creating that unknown and that you're creating that unknown and that fear. It's the same way uh often we know fear. It's the same way uh often we know fear. It's the same way uh often we know what it's like when somebody starts a what it's like when somebody starts a what it's like when somebody starts a story with the context and they'll say story with the context and they'll say story with the context and they'll say something instead of getting to the something instead of getting to the something instead of getting to the point, meaning starting with their end point, meaning starting with their end point, meaning starting with their end first, they'll be like, "So you remember first, they'll be like, "So you remember first, they'll be like, "So you remember the other day when we did this thing?" the other day when we did this thing?" the other day when we did this thing?" And you probably don't remember, but and And you probably don't remember, but and And you probably don't remember, but and they start going like, "What's what's they start going like, "What's what's they start going like, "What's what's happening? Okay, what's are you are they happening? Okay, what's are you are they happening? Okay, what's are you are they upset? Are they not upset? Have I done upset? Are they not upset? Have I done upset? Are they not upset? Have I done something wrong? Have I not done something wrong? Have I not done something wrong? Have I not done something?" And we go often into fixing something?" And we go often into fixing something?" And we go often into fixing mode. We want to try and fix it. And mode. We want to try and fix it. And mode. We want to try and fix it. And usually we start to kind of, "Oh, you usually we start to kind of, "Oh, you usually we start to kind of, "Oh, you want to go there?" And like, "No, no, want to go there?" And like, "No, no, want to go there?" And like, "No, no, no, no, no. That's not it. That's not no, no, no. That's not it. That's not no, no, no. That's not it. That's not it. What?" And then it gets really, it. What?" And then it gets really, it. What?" And then it gets really, really frustrating. And then you go, really frustrating. And then you go, really frustrating. And then you go, "Okay, so you want me to Well, okay. You "Okay, so you want me to Well, okay. You "Okay, so you want me to Well, okay. You just totally missed it. I mean, I gave just totally missed it. I mean, I gave just totally missed it. I mean, I gave you the whole It just It's because you the whole It just It's because you the whole It just It's because they're not being clear about it. Well, they're not being clear about it. Well, they're not being clear about it. Well, we don't have theory of mind. And good we don't have theory of mind. And good we don't have theory of mind. And good storytelling saves the exciting twist storytelling saves the exciting twist storytelling saves the exciting twist for the end. But I guess good emotional for the end. But I guess good emotional for the end. But I guess good emotional storytelling buries the lead in the storytelling buries the lead in the storytelling buries the lead in the headline, right? You say, "Hey, headline, right? You say, "Hey, headline, right? You say, "Hey, >> uh, I'm not mad at you and this is >> uh, I'm not mad at you and this is >> uh, I'm not mad at you and this is nothing to be worried about." nothing to be worried about." nothing to be worried about." >> But, >> But, >> But, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> or >> or >> or some degree of I love you and I just some degree of I love you and I just some degree of I love you and I just really want to have this conversation. I really want to have this conversation. I really want to have this conversation. I think it's I think it's super important think it's I think it's super important think it's I think it's super important and and I I know that. What was one that and and I I know that. What was one that and and I I know that. What was one that I got from uh Connor Beaton, who I work I got from uh Connor Beaton, who I work I got from uh Connor Beaton, who I work with the other day? I need to have a difficult conversation I need to have a difficult conversation with you and I know that you can handle with you and I know that you can handle with you and I know that you can handle it and I know that we can handle it as it and I know that we can handle it as it and I know that we can handle it as well. well. well. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> [ __ ] great, dude. You're like, "Oh, >> [ __ ] great, dude. You're like, "Oh, >> [ __ ] great, dude. You're like, "Oh, let's go." Like, "This is good." let's go." Like, "This is good." let's go." Like, "This is good." >> Yeah. And see, that's what that that >> Yeah. And see, that's what that that >> Yeah. And see, that's what that that makes you want to get into it to say, makes you want to get into it to say, makes you want to get into it to say, "Hey, we're going to grow. We're going "Hey, we're going to grow. We're going "Hey, we're going to grow. We're going to grow through this." And so rather to grow through this." And so rather to grow through this." And so rather than when somebody comes into a than when somebody comes into a than when somebody comes into a conversation, what what I call, you conversation, what what I call, you conversation, what what I call, you know, labeling the difficult know, labeling the difficult know, labeling the difficult conversation. Rather than let's say I conversation. Rather than let's say I conversation. Rather than let's say I need to give you bad news about need to give you bad news about need to give you bad news about something and I'm already feeling something and I'm already feeling something and I'm already feeling anxiety about it. I don't know how I'm anxiety about it. I don't know how I'm anxiety about it. I don't know how I'm going to say it. I've been thinking going to say it. I've been thinking going to say it. I've been thinking about it while I brush my teeth, while I about it while I brush my teeth, while I about it while I brush my teeth, while I drive here. God, how am I going to have drive here. God, how am I going to have drive here. God, how am I going to have this? And then I just start with a, hey, this? And then I just start with a, hey, this? And then I just start with a, hey, Chris, how's it going? You're good. Have Chris, how's it going? You're good. Have Chris, how's it going? You're good. Have you you've been playing pickle ball you you've been playing pickle ball you you've been playing pickle ball lately? Yeah. I mean, have you seen lately? Yeah. I mean, have you seen lately? Yeah. I mean, have you seen that? It's like it's like ping pong but that? It's like it's like ping pong but that? It's like it's like ping pong but not. It's crazy, you know. And then not. It's crazy, you know. And then not. It's crazy, you know. And then you're like, "What's going on?" And then you're like, "What's going on?" And then you're like, "What's going on?" And then I go, "So, so listen." Uh, and that's I go, "So, so listen." Uh, and that's I go, "So, so listen." Uh, and that's when you know, when you know, when you know, like you you can already tell in the like you you can already tell in the like you you can already tell in the tenor of my voice like something else is tenor of my voice like something else is tenor of my voice like something else is going on. And that's the you're trying going on. And that's the you're trying going on. And that's the you're trying to see what what else is happening cuz to see what what else is happening cuz to see what what else is happening cuz you know something else is going on. But you know something else is going on. But you know something else is going on. But when you're able to say, "This is going when you're able to say, "This is going when you're able to say, "This is going to be a hard conversation. to be a hard conversation. to be a hard conversation. This isn't going to be fun to talk This isn't going to be fun to talk This isn't going to be fun to talk about. This is something that is going about. This is something that is going about. This is something that is going to be hard for us." It's almost like we to be hard for us." It's almost like we to be hard for us." It's almost like we kind of ready them and to be emotionally kind of ready them and to be emotionally kind of ready them and to be emotionally resilient to kind of nod and go, "Okay, resilient to kind of nod and go, "Okay, resilient to kind of nod and go, "Okay, I'm ready. Let's talk about it." But I'm ready. Let's talk about it." But I'm ready. Let's talk about it." But saying, "I'm telling you this because I saying, "I'm telling you this because I saying, "I'm telling you this because I know we can handle it. know we can handle it. know we can handle it. >> This isn't a conversation that you and I >> This isn't a conversation that you and I >> This isn't a conversation that you and I can't get through." can't get through." can't get through." >> Like, let's go. We can do that all day. >> Like, let's go. We can do that all day. >> Like, let's go. We can do that all day. >> One of the other lines that I've heard a >> One of the other lines that I've heard a >> One of the other lines that I've heard a bit, there's two situations uh that over bit, there's two situations uh that over bit, there's two situations uh that over the last couple of years have been very the last couple of years have been very the last couple of years have been very formative on how I see communication. formative on how I see communication. formative on how I see communication. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> Uh the first one was Theo Vaughn with >> Uh the first one was Theo Vaughn with >> Uh the first one was Theo Vaughn with Shan Strickland. You see this clip? Shan Strickland. You see this clip? Shan Strickland. You see this clip? >> Shawn and Theo. Sean Strickland, MMA >> Shawn and Theo. Sean Strickland, MMA >> Shawn and Theo. Sean Strickland, MMA fighter, UFC fighter. You know who he fighter, UFC fighter. You know who he fighter, UFC fighter. You know who he is? is? is? >> Oh, is this where he goes? I'm just >> Oh, is this where he goes? I'm just >> Oh, is this where he goes? I'm just going to sit with you. going to sit with you. going to sit with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That was so good, >> That was so good, >> That was so good, >> bro. It is >> bro. It is >> bro. It is one of the most beautiful examples of one of the most beautiful examples of one of the most beautiful examples of space holding. space holding. space holding. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That I've ever seen. And was something >> That I've ever seen. And was something >> That I've ever seen. And was something that I'd never seen done before. And that I'd never seen done before. And that I'd never seen done before. And then my friend Charlie from Charisma on then my friend Charlie from Charisma on then my friend Charlie from Charisma on Command did a breakdown of it and fully Command did a breakdown of it and fully Command did a breakdown of it and fully explained what was going on. He goes explained what was going on. He goes explained what was going on. He goes through the body language of Shawn. So through the body language of Shawn. So through the body language of Shawn. So Shawn's gripping this water bottle. He's Shawn's gripping this water bottle. He's Shawn's gripping this water bottle. He's got some [ __ ] bottle of Evian which got some [ __ ] bottle of Evian which got some [ __ ] bottle of Evian which is getting ragged around while he's is getting ragged around while he's is getting ragged around while he's having this conversation. He's grasping having this conversation. He's grasping having this conversation. He's grasping with one hand. He's looking for control. with one hand. He's looking for control. with one hand. He's looking for control. He can't find it. He's looking for He can't find it. He's looking for He can't find it. He's looking for control. He's looking for control. And control. He's looking for control. And control. He's looking for control. And then Theo makes a joke that pulls him then Theo makes a joke that pulls him then Theo makes a joke that pulls him out and then puts him back in. Yeah. out and then puts him back in. Yeah. out and then puts him back in. Yeah. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. >> Dude, I remember like laying in bed like >> Dude, I remember like laying in bed like >> Dude, I remember like laying in bed like I remember like stop believing in God, I remember like stop believing in God, I remember like stop believing in God, man. Like [ __ ] like I had [ __ ] um man. Like [ __ ] like I had [ __ ] um man. Like [ __ ] like I had [ __ ] um Yeah. It's crazy [ __ ] dude. Yeah. It's crazy [ __ ] dude. Yeah. It's crazy [ __ ] dude. Crazy [ __ ] man. Crazy [ __ ] man. Crazy [ __ ] man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's okay, man. It's a lot of that sad, It's okay, man. It's a lot of that sad, It's okay, man. It's a lot of that sad, dude. I used to be scared at night like dude. I used to be scared at night like dude. I used to be scared at night like uh I used to stand up like I heard when uh I used to stand up like I heard when uh I used to stand up like I heard when I was a kid that like if you peed around I was a kid that like if you peed around I was a kid that like if you peed around your like animals could pee somewhere your like animals could pee somewhere your like animals could pee somewhere that other animals wouldn't come. You that other animals wouldn't come. You that other animals wouldn't come. You know what I'm talking about? You know know what I'm talking about? You know know what I'm talking about? You know what I'm talking about? Huh? what I'm talking about? Huh? what I'm talking about? Huh? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Have you ever heard that? >> Yeah. I'm sorry, bud. >> Yeah. I'm sorry, bud. So man, >> I'm sorry, buddy. >> I'm sorry, buddy. >> It's all good, dude. >> We don't have talk, man. I can just sit >> We don't have talk, man. I can just sit here with you for a minute. Oh, [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] [ __ ] Stay sec. I can just sit here. We can just sit I can just sit here. We can just sit here. No, here. No, here. No, >> it's all good. You take six seconds and >> it's all good. You take six seconds and >> it's all good. You take six seconds and just process it. >> Yeah, man. Like >> Yeah, man. Like >> that's so good. >> that's so good. >> that's so good. >> Talk to me when you see that. Yeah. >> Talk to me when you see that. Yeah. >> Talk to me when you see that. Yeah. >> What do you see going on? Well, one you >> What do you see going on? Well, one you >> What do you see going on? Well, one you you see from him have a much bigger you see from him have a much bigger you see from him have a much bigger position to then his leg goes up position to then his leg goes up position to then his leg goes up >> uh and he's which is already like kind >> uh and he's which is already like kind >> uh and he's which is already like kind of coming more into yourself, right? cuz of coming more into yourself, right? cuz of coming more into yourself, right? cuz probably if he would if he could have on probably if he would if he could have on probably if he would if he could have on that couch that's the position that he that couch that's the position that he that couch that's the position that he really wants to be in is like when really wants to be in is like when really wants to be in is like when you're when you're trying I mean there's you're when you're trying I mean there's you're when you're trying I mean there's a reason why they call it the fetal a reason why they call it the fetal a reason why they call it the fetal position when you're trying to like get position when you're trying to like get position when you're trying to like get yourself more regulated and he's doing yourself more regulated and he's doing yourself more regulated and he's doing this right here which is in a lot of this right here which is in a lot of this right here which is in a lot of different therapies this is very different therapies this is very different therapies this is very regulating because it's allowing you to regulating because it's allowing you to regulating because it's allowing you to have a lot of tension and then a lot of have a lot of tension and then a lot of have a lot of tension and then a lot of release release release >> and so for people who are having a >> and so for people who are having a >> and so for people who are having a really hard time and they feel like really hard time and they feel like really hard time and they feel like they're going to have a panic attack or they're going to have a panic attack or they're going to have a panic attack or they're really trying to process things they're really trying to process things they're really trying to process things they'll like grab a pillow they'll like grab a pillow they'll like grab a pillow >> like those plushy toys, they they have a >> like those plushy toys, they they have a >> like those plushy toys, they they have a purpose, right? It's like you squeeze, purpose, right? It's like you squeeze, purpose, right? It's like you squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, and it's release. And squeeze, squeeze, and it's release. And squeeze, squeeze, and it's release. And so in that moment, that's that's exactly so in that moment, that's that's exactly so in that moment, that's that's exactly what he's gripping for. And that's what he's gripping for. And that's what he's gripping for. And that's probably what he was trained to do. But probably what he was trained to do. But probably what he was trained to do. But you can tell he's he's he's looking for you can tell he's he's he's looking for you can tell he's he's he's looking for control. And I love how that's a perfect control. And I love how that's a perfect control. And I love how that's a perfect way of just saying you you said a minute way of just saying you you said a minute way of just saying you you said a minute ago, space setting where a lot of people ago, space setting where a lot of people ago, space setting where a lot of people say, "Just hold space for somebody." And say, "Just hold space for somebody." And say, "Just hold space for somebody." And that sounds like therapy talk of like that sounds like therapy talk of like that sounds like therapy talk of like what does that exactly mean? Well, Theo what does that exactly mean? Well, Theo what does that exactly mean? Well, Theo does it right there. He says, "Hey man, does it right there. He says, "Hey man, does it right there. He says, "Hey man, we don't have to talk about anything or we don't have to talk about anything or we don't have to talk about anything or solve anything. We can just just sit. solve anything. We can just just sit. solve anything. We can just just sit. just let me sit with you. And that right just let me sit with you. And that right just let me sit with you. And that right there is I mean who who doesn't look at there is I mean who who doesn't look at there is I mean who who doesn't look at that and go I that's strength right that and go I that's strength right that and go I that's strength right there. How courageous is that? Rather there. How courageous is that? Rather there. How courageous is that? Rather than and you can tell Theo starts to than and you can tell Theo starts to than and you can tell Theo starts to like try to relate to him and go yeah like try to relate to him and go yeah like try to relate to him and go yeah when I was a kid man and tries to like when I was a kid man and tries to like when I was a kid man and tries to like >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And it that he was already he was >> And it that he was already he was >> And it that he was already he was already coming back to when he was you already coming back to when he was you already coming back to when he was you know in fifth grade and the desk being know in fifth grade and the desk being know in fifth grade and the desk being taken away and he was all of a sudden he taken away and he was all of a sudden he taken away and he was all of a sudden he was 11 years old again. M there's a a was 11 years old again. M there's a a was 11 years old again. M there's a a couple of moments where Theo makes a couple of moments where Theo makes a couple of moments where Theo makes a couple more jokes, pulls him out. couple more jokes, pulls him out. couple more jokes, pulls him out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then he goes back in and he sits >> And then he goes back in and he sits >> And then he goes back in and he sits with him again and Charlie breaks this with him again and Charlie breaks this with him again and Charlie breaks this down. The video he did was like down. The video he did was like down. The video he did was like >> I'll have to check it out. That's >> I'll have to check it out. That's >> I'll have to check it out. That's >> It was so formative to me, dude. And >> It was so formative to me, dude. And >> It was so formative to me, dude. And it's crazy to be friends with someone it's crazy to be friends with someone it's crazy to be friends with someone that's able to I'm genuine friends with that's able to I'm genuine friends with that's able to I'm genuine friends with this guy for like six, seven years. this guy for like six, seven years. this guy for like six, seven years. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And he's able to just put a piece of >> And he's able to just put a piece of >> And he's able to just put a piece of content out that maybe 100,000 people content out that maybe 100,000 people content out that maybe 100,000 people have seen, 150,000 people. It's not a have seen, 150,000 people. It's not a have seen, 150,000 people. It's not a massive video. massive video. massive video. >> Yeah. and it just completely introduced >> Yeah. and it just completely introduced >> Yeah. and it just completely introduced me to Joe Hudson who's now a guy that me to Joe Hudson who's now a guy that me to Joe Hudson who's now a guy that coaches me who taught Charlie all of the coaches me who taught Charlie all of the coaches me who taught Charlie all of the stuff that he used to break it down and stuff that he used to break it down and stuff that he used to break it down and grasping and grasping and grasping and >> so that was the first one. The first one >> so that was the first one. The first one >> so that was the first one. The first one was it's okay buddy we don't need to was it's okay buddy we don't need to was it's okay buddy we don't need to talk we can just sit here if you want. talk we can just sit here if you want. talk we can just sit here if you want. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that was the first one. Then the second >> that was the first one. Then the second >> that was the first one. Then the second one one one >> is from Connor Beaton from Man Talks and >> is from Connor Beaton from Man Talks and >> is from Connor Beaton from Man Talks and he used this line that I've never ever he used this line that I've never ever he used this line that I've never ever heard anybody else use before. He said, heard anybody else use before. He said, heard anybody else use before. He said, "Your emotions aren't too big for me." "Your emotions aren't too big for me." "Your emotions aren't too big for me." >> Yeah, that's a good one. Oh my god, your >> Yeah, that's a good one. Oh my god, your >> Yeah, that's a good one. Oh my god, your emotions aren't too big for me. emotions aren't too big for me. emotions aren't too big for me. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> there's space for you to just be you. >> there's space for you to just be you. >> there's space for you to just be you. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And in both of those situations, it's uh >> And in both of those situations, it's uh >> And in both of those situations, it's uh reassuring. There's no performance reassuring. There's no performance reassuring. There's no performance needed, no nothing. needed, no nothing. needed, no nothing. >> Yeah. Because I think in all >> Yeah. Because I think in all >> Yeah. Because I think in all relationships, especially uh romantic relationships, especially uh romantic relationships, especially uh romantic relationships, there can be this feeling relationships, there can be this feeling relationships, there can be this feeling of somebody is afraid they're being too of somebody is afraid they're being too of somebody is afraid they're being too much. Like is that's why we may not want much. Like is that's why we may not want much. Like is that's why we may not want to express all our emotions. We're to express all our emotions. We're to express all our emotions. We're afraid they're going to be too much. afraid they're going to be too much. afraid they're going to be too much. Then the other person is not going to be Then the other person is not going to be Then the other person is not going to be able to carry it, hold it. It's they're able to carry it, hold it. It's they're able to carry it, hold it. It's they're going to dismiss it. They're going to going to dismiss it. They're going to going to dismiss it. They're going to see it as all the things that we're see it as all the things that we're see it as all the things that we're telling us in our head is it's it's not telling us in our head is it's it's not telling us in our head is it's it's not going to be there. They're not going to going to be there. They're not going to going to be there. They're not going to be able to support me. Uh I'm going to be able to support me. Uh I'm going to be able to support me. Uh I'm going to be too much. I'm going to be left by be too much. I'm going to be left by be too much. I'm going to be left by myself. I'm going to have to carry this myself. I'm going to have to carry this myself. I'm going to have to carry this by myself. But that kind of that kind of by myself. But that kind of that kind of by myself. But that kind of that kind of language to say my emotions are big language to say my emotions are big language to say my emotions are big enough for this moment. Or even, you enough for this moment. Or even, you enough for this moment. Or even, you know, I I I've said to my kids, which we know, I I I've said to my kids, which we know, I I I've said to my kids, which we love to say is like, "My love for you is love to say is like, "My love for you is love to say is like, "My love for you is big enough to handle this." Like, big enough to handle this." Like, big enough to handle this." Like, >> "My love for you is big enough for even >> "My love for you is big enough for even >> "My love for you is big enough for even this little outburst or you doing this little outburst or you doing this little outburst or you doing something wrong and my love for you something wrong and my love for you something wrong and my love for you covers all all of this. you don't have covers all all of this. you don't have covers all all of this. you don't have to worry about having to perform or to worry about having to perform or to worry about having to perform or having to have the right answer or you having to have the right answer or you having to have the right answer or you know like my son right now he's eight know like my son right now he's eight know like my son right now he's eight and so he's finding his way through and so he's finding his way through and so he's finding his way through like a lot of school boys at during like a lot of school boys at during like a lot of school boys at during recess or right after pickup they throw recess or right after pickup they throw recess or right after pickup they throw the football uh just back and forth into the football uh just back and forth into the football uh just back and forth into like crowds of boys and it gets really like crowds of boys and it gets really like crowds of boys and it gets really easy of like who can throw the best, who easy of like who can throw the best, who easy of like who can throw the best, who can kick the best and like they they're can kick the best and like they they're can kick the best and like they they're choosing who's most dominant. Yeah. choosing who's most dominant. Yeah. choosing who's most dominant. Yeah. who's the coolest of of all of that. And who's the coolest of of all of that. And who's the coolest of of all of that. And I remember him coming home and he's I remember him coming home and he's I remember him coming home and he's really down about it. And he was like, really down about it. And he was like, really down about it. And he was like, "They didn't I I played that nobody used "They didn't I I played that nobody used "They didn't I I played that nobody used me." Like in other words, he didn't get me." Like in other words, he didn't get me." Like in other words, he didn't get thrown too in that game. That really he thrown too in that game. That really he thrown too in that game. That really he was like, "Is that like I'm I'm sorry." was like, "Is that like I'm I'm sorry." was like, "Is that like I'm I'm sorry." And he was like apologizing to me. And I And he was like apologizing to me. And I And he was like apologizing to me. And I had to I mean like this was dad moment had to I mean like this was dad moment had to I mean like this was dad moment right here. I could have been like, right here. I could have been like, right here. I could have been like, "Yeah, next time I want you to go ahead "Yeah, next time I want you to go ahead "Yeah, next time I want you to go ahead and elbow a kid." Um I was like, "Dude, and elbow a kid." Um I was like, "Dude, and elbow a kid." Um I was like, "Dude, my bigger than that. You're you don't my bigger than that. You're you don't my bigger than that. You're you don't have to have any of that. And I think have to have any of that. And I think have to have any of that. And I think that's the kind of model of things that that's the kind of model of things that that's the kind of model of things that more men can do. more men can do. more men can do. What are some of the other lines that What are some of the other lines that What are some of the other lines that you love to use in a conversation? you love to use in a conversation? you love to use in a conversation? Conversations becoming disregulated or Conversations becoming disregulated or Conversations becoming disregulated or >> you know that this person needs >> you know that this person needs >> you know that this person needs reassurance. Someone needs reassurance reassurance. Someone needs reassurance reassurance. Someone needs reassurance in a conversation that you're having. in a conversation that you're having. in a conversation that you're having. What are your favorite lines to show What are your favorite lines to show What are your favorite lines to show them that you're there with them? them that you're there with them? them that you're there with them? Um Um Um the the the the one that I like to use, and it's the one that I like to use, and it's the one that I like to use, and it's gonna sound cheesy, but it but it works. gonna sound cheesy, but it but it works. gonna sound cheesy, but it but it works. I promise. Is if we're not okay, then I promise. Is if we're not okay, then I promise. Is if we're not okay, then nothing's okay. nothing's okay. nothing's okay. Like it's if you and I aren't okay, like Like it's if you and I aren't okay, like Like it's if you and I aren't okay, like this is why I say this to my to my wife. this is why I say this to my to my wife. this is why I say this to my to my wife. If if we're not okay, then nothing's If if we're not okay, then nothing's If if we're not okay, then nothing's okay. In other words, it's really easy okay. In other words, it's really easy okay. In other words, it's really easy to go, we're fine, we're fine, and then to go, we're fine, we're fine, and then to go, we're fine, we're fine, and then just all of a sudden focus on the kids just all of a sudden focus on the kids just all of a sudden focus on the kids or finances or whatever. And it's easy or finances or whatever. And it's easy or finances or whatever. And it's easy to kind of switch over to getting busy to kind of switch over to getting busy to kind of switch over to getting busy with something else and it gets swept with something else and it gets swept with something else and it gets swept under the rug. But you you miss that under the rug. But you you miss that under the rug. But you you miss that chance. Then it becomes this little chance. Then it becomes this little chance. Then it becomes this little bitty paper cut and then you'll have bitty paper cut and then you'll have bitty paper cut and then you'll have another little paper cut and you have another little paper cut and you have another little paper cut and you have another little paper cut. And so another little paper cut. And so another little paper cut. And so eventually those become big ruptures eventually those become big ruptures eventually those become big ruptures over time. The one I also like to use um over time. The one I also like to use um over time. The one I also like to use um is something else is coming up. I'm not is something else is coming up. I'm not is something else is coming up. I'm not sure yet. Like if if we're in a sure yet. Like if if we're in a sure yet. Like if if we're in a conversation and I can tell that there's conversation and I can tell that there's conversation and I can tell that there's more to it for me, like I'm I'm I am more to it for me, like I'm I'm I am more to it for me, like I'm I'm I am having a bigger emotional response than having a bigger emotional response than having a bigger emotional response than what's called for, what's called for, what's called for, I can invite her into that conversation. I can invite her into that conversation. I can invite her into that conversation. Let me put that differently. Let me put that differently. Let me put that differently. If let's say we're having a level three If let's say we're having a level three If let's say we're having a level three conversation, conversation, conversation, in other words, nobody's mad at each in other words, nobody's mad at each in other words, nobody's mad at each other, but something happens and all of other, but something happens and all of other, but something happens and all of a sudden I'm at a seven or eight and I'm a sudden I'm at a seven or eight and I'm a sudden I'm at a seven or eight and I'm just something's really got me upset. just something's really got me upset. just something's really got me upset. >> It's much easier if I say I can tell >> It's much easier if I say I can tell >> It's much easier if I say I can tell something else is coming up for me. I'm something else is coming up for me. I'm something else is coming up for me. I'm not sure yet. Rather than me trying to not sure yet. Rather than me trying to not sure yet. Rather than me trying to hold it in, avoid her, go distance, and hold it in, avoid her, go distance, and hold it in, avoid her, go distance, and try and fix it myself. when it's try and fix it myself. when it's try and fix it myself. when it's actually me inviting her into this is actually me inviting her into this is actually me inviting her into this is what's happening to me in that moment is what's happening to me in that moment is what's happening to me in that moment is the very conversation and connection the very conversation and connection the very conversation and connection that is going to make her closer to me that is going to make her closer to me that is going to make her closer to me to be the person that I I need in that to be the person that I I need in that to be the person that I I need in that moment rather than thinking that I have moment rather than thinking that I have moment rather than thinking that I have to present her with somebody who's 100% to present her with somebody who's 100% to present her with somebody who's 100% whole and fixed and has it all together whole and fixed and has it all together whole and fixed and has it all together >> and you're a part of this you're a part >> and you're a part of this you're a part >> and you're a part of this you're a part of the team we're working together of the team we're working together of the team we're working together >> exactly and that's and and that is the >> exactly and that's and and that is the >> exactly and that's and and that is the vulnerability side of it you can't you vulnerability side of it you can't you vulnerability side of it you can't you can't strengthen alone like self-improve can't strengthen alone like self-improve can't strengthen alone like self-improve improvement is improvement is improvement is if if if you're just in it for if if if you're just in it for if if if you're just in it for when if it doesn't help you connect with when if it doesn't help you connect with when if it doesn't help you connect with anybody else, then self-improvement is anybody else, then self-improvement is anybody else, then self-improvement is just self- worship. There's there's just self- worship. There's there's just self- worship. There's there's nothing else to it. Like you you have to nothing else to it. Like you you have to nothing else to it. Like you you have to it's it's to improve you around others it's it's to improve you around others it's it's to improve you around others as well. as well. as well. >> So going back to the triggered in the >> So going back to the triggered in the >> So going back to the triggered in the body conflict in a conversation. body conflict in a conversation. body conflict in a conversation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How can people interrupt that reaction >> How can people interrupt that reaction >> How can people interrupt that reaction in real time? Like what are the best in real time? Like what are the best in real time? Like what are the best ways to stay composed when a ways to stay composed when a ways to stay composed when a conversation gets animated conversation gets animated conversation gets animated >> when things are starting to get >> when things are starting to get >> when things are starting to get ratcheted up? You you have to find a way ratcheted up? You you have to find a way ratcheted up? You you have to find a way to slow it down. You have to find a way to slow it down. You have to find a way to slow it down. You have to find a way to elongate the process. Like you don't to elongate the process. Like you don't to elongate the process. Like you don't get extra points for having a very quick get extra points for having a very quick get extra points for having a very quick comeback. It looks good on social media, comeback. It looks good on social media, comeback. It looks good on social media, right? It doesn't work in real life. right? It doesn't work in real life. right? It doesn't work in real life. They just don't. You have to be able to They just don't. You have to be able to They just don't. You have to be able to slow it down. So what does that look slow it down. So what does that look slow it down. So what does that look like? It means you have to use your like? It means you have to use your like? It means you have to use your breath breath breath a lot. What I teach is have your breath a lot. What I teach is have your breath a lot. What I teach is have your breath be the first word that you say. I teach be the first word that you say. I teach be the first word that you say. I teach this every one of my clients before they this every one of my clients before they this every one of my clients before they go into deposition or cross- go into deposition or cross- go into deposition or cross- examination. It's it's your breath. examination. It's it's your breath. examination. It's it's your breath. That's the only way you're really going That's the only way you're really going That's the only way you're really going to slow things down is if I choose my to slow things down is if I choose my to slow things down is if I choose my timing in this conversation and not let timing in this conversation and not let timing in this conversation and not let somebody else press their timing on me. somebody else press their timing on me. somebody else press their timing on me. Like in the home, for example, if I if Like in the home, for example, if I if Like in the home, for example, if I if we wait to have a conversation when the we wait to have a conversation when the we wait to have a conversation when the kids are in the bath and we're trying to kids are in the bath and we're trying to kids are in the bath and we're trying to do dinner and everything is stressful do dinner and everything is stressful do dinner and everything is stressful and we've already had a tire, my battery and we've already had a tire, my battery and we've already had a tire, my battery is already at 20%. is already at 20%. is already at 20%. >> Chances are not going to go great in >> Chances are not going to go great in >> Chances are not going to go great in conversation. It's not going to be that conversation. It's not going to be that conversation. It's not going to be that awesome. But if we're able to slow awesome. But if we're able to slow awesome. But if we're able to slow things down and I'm able to pause things down and I'm able to pause things down and I'm able to pause and use my words to let them know a and use my words to let them know a and use my words to let them know a better time and be better, that's going better time and be better, that's going better time and be better, that's going to do a lot better for me. So, what does to do a lot better for me. So, what does to do a lot better for me. So, what does that do in the process? How do how do that do in the process? How do how do that do in the process? How do how do you do that? Aside from using your you do that? Aside from using your you do that? Aside from using your breath in conversation, you need to say breath in conversation, you need to say breath in conversation, you need to say it out loud. I can tell I'm getting it out loud. I can tell I'm getting it out loud. I can tell I'm getting defensive. defensive. defensive. I'm going to be better for this I'm going to be better for this I'm going to be better for this conversation here in a in a little bit. conversation here in a in a little bit. conversation here in a in a little bit. I can tell I'm not saying things as well I can tell I'm not saying things as well I can tell I'm not saying things as well as I want to, and I don't want to as I want to, and I don't want to as I want to, and I don't want to approach the conversation this way. the approach the conversation this way. the approach the conversation this way. the I it's if you were rather than trying to I it's if you were rather than trying to I it's if you were rather than trying to get defensive, get defensive, get defensive, if you were able to say, "Listen, I can if you were able to say, "Listen, I can if you were able to say, "Listen, I can tell this moment is a big one and you're tell this moment is a big one and you're tell this moment is a big one and you're saying a lot of things that are really saying a lot of things that are really saying a lot of things that are really important. I want to make sure that I important. I want to make sure that I important. I want to make sure that I take the time that gives my part what take the time that gives my part what take the time that gives my part what this deserves this deserves this deserves >> and that and that's going to take that's >> and that and that's going to take that's >> and that and that's going to take that's going to take some time. going to take some time. going to take some time. >> We're a team." >> We're a team." >> We're a team." >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Even in disagreement, we're a team. Even >> Even in disagreement, we're a team. Even >> Even in disagreement, we're a team. Even in conflict, we're a team. in conflict, we're a team. in conflict, we're a team. >> All the more. Yeah. especially when when >> All the more. Yeah. especially when when >> All the more. Yeah. especially when when it's conflict because it's it's um when it's conflict because it's it's um when it's conflict because it's it's um when you find that you're only you find that you're only you find that you're only nobody wants to be in it alone. Like nobody wants to be in it alone. Like nobody wants to be in it alone. Like nobody we we know what it's like to be nobody we we know what it's like to be nobody we we know what it's like to be in a relationship with somebody where in a relationship with somebody where in a relationship with somebody where you're the only one in the boat you're the only one in the boat you're the only one in the boat paddling. paddling. paddling. A quick aside, there is a stat that A quick aside, there is a stat that A quick aside, there is a stat that genuinely surprised me when I first genuinely surprised me when I first genuinely surprised me when I first heard it. 95% of people don't get enough heard it. 95% of people don't get enough heard it. 95% of people don't get enough fiber. Not because they're being fiber. Not because they're being fiber. Not because they're being careless, but because hitting your daily careless, but because hitting your daily careless, but because hitting your daily fiber target through food alone is fiber target through food alone is fiber target through food alone is actually quite hard. But that's why actually quite hard. But that's why actually quite hard. But that's why Momentous built Fiber Plus. See, fiber Momentous built Fiber Plus. See, fiber Momentous built Fiber Plus. See, fiber isn't just a digestion thing. It's the isn't just a digestion thing. It's the isn't just a digestion thing. It's the foundation of your gut health, which foundation of your gut health, which foundation of your gut health, which drives how well you absorb nutrients, drives how well you absorb nutrients, drives how well you absorb nutrients, how stable your energy is, and how how stable your energy is, and how how stable your energy is, and how quickly you recover. If your gut isn't quickly you recover. If your gut isn't quickly you recover. If your gut isn't dialed in, everything else that you're dialed in, everything else that you're dialed in, everything else that you're doing is working at a fraction of its doing is working at a fraction of its doing is working at a fraction of its potential. Fiber Plus is a threein-one potential. Fiber Plus is a threein-one potential. Fiber Plus is a threein-one formula built to address digestion, gut formula built to address digestion, gut formula built to address digestion, gut barrier strength, and blood sugar barrier strength, and blood sugar barrier strength, and blood sugar stability all at once. And this cinnamon stability all at once. And this cinnamon stability all at once. And this cinnamon flavor is unreal. You might think, flavor is unreal. You might think, flavor is unreal. You might think, "Fiber? Wow, I bet that tastes great." "Fiber? Wow, I bet that tastes great." "Fiber? Wow, I bet that tastes great." Well, yeah, actually it does, doubters. Well, yeah, actually it does, doubters. Well, yeah, actually it does, doubters. Uh, I really enjoyed this. Best of all, Uh, I really enjoyed this. Best of all, Uh, I really enjoyed this. Best of all, Momentous offers a 30-day money back Momentous offers a 30-day money back Momentous offers a 30-day money back guarantee. So, if you're not sure, you guarantee. So, if you're not sure, you guarantee. So, if you're not sure, you can buy Fiber Plus. Try it for 29 days. can buy Fiber Plus. Try it for 29 days. can buy Fiber Plus. Try it for 29 days. If you don't love it, they'll just give If you don't love it, they'll just give If you don't love it, they'll just give you your money back. And they ship you your money back. And they ship you your money back. And they ship internationally. Right now, you can get internationally. Right now, you can get internationally. Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription up to 35% off your first subscription up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money back guarantee by and that 30-day money back guarantee by and that 30-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description going to the link in the description going to the link in the description below or heading to below or heading to below or heading to liveus.com/modernwisdom liveus.com/modernwisdom liveus.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's l i v e m o m n o checkout. That's l i v e m o m n o checkout. That's l i v e m o m n o s.com/modern wisdom and modern wisdom s.com/modern wisdom and modern wisdom s.com/modern wisdom and modern wisdom a checkout. a checkout. a checkout. So breath first word So breath first word So breath first word >> yes breath >> yes breath >> yes breath >> space if >> space if >> space if >> timeouts >> timeouts >> timeouts >> battery is low and I need a little bit >> battery is low and I need a little bit >> battery is low and I need a little bit more room what else more room what else more room what else >> get quick to timeouts the timeouts are >> get quick to timeouts the timeouts are >> get quick to timeouts the timeouts are something that you can't really be uh something that you can't really be uh something that you can't really be uh overused in some sense if you find that overused in some sense if you find that overused in some sense if you find that things are really really frustrating things are really really frustrating things are really really frustrating they say I think the data was like you they say I think the data was like you they say I think the data was like you need to have 20 minutes to kind of need to have 20 minutes to kind of need to have 20 minutes to kind of regulate yourself regulate yourself regulate yourself again um in other words don't try and again um in other words don't try and again um in other words don't try and say you know what let's just I need a say you know what let's just I need a say you know what let's just I need a moment and then it's not two minutes moment and then it's not two minutes moment and then it's not two minutes later and they're like, "You know what?" later and they're like, "You know what?" later and they're like, "You know what?" And then you're right back at it again. And then you're right back at it again. And then you're right back at it again. That's not near enough. That's not near That's not near enough. That's not near That's not near enough. That's not near enough time. You need you need more time enough time. You need you need more time enough time. You need you need more time with that. So, we got pausing, using with that. So, we got pausing, using with that. So, we got pausing, using your breath, giving time to elongate it. your breath, giving time to elongate it. your breath, giving time to elongate it. So, two, timeouts. And then three, set So, two, timeouts. And then three, set So, two, timeouts. And then three, set aside actual time for the conversations aside actual time for the conversations aside actual time for the conversations that matter. Like you'll we'll set aside that matter. Like you'll we'll set aside that matter. Like you'll we'll set aside time for me time, you know, to do what I time for me time, you know, to do what I time for me time, you know, to do what I want. Go work out, go do whatever, but want. Go work out, go do whatever, but want. Go work out, go do whatever, but we won't set aside time for some of the we won't set aside time for some of the we won't set aside time for some of the most important conversations we're ever most important conversations we're ever most important conversations we're ever going to have. And so if I were to say going to have. And so if I were to say going to have. And so if I were to say even to you, I'd say, "Hey, I'd like to even to you, I'd say, "Hey, I'd like to even to you, I'd say, "Hey, I'd like to talk to you about something really talk to you about something really talk to you about something really important to me and I'll make sure that important to me and I'll make sure that important to me and I'll make sure that we have time for when's when's a good we have time for when's when's a good we have time for when's when's a good window sometime next week." Like I'm it window sometime next week." Like I'm it window sometime next week." Like I'm it you see how much better that is than me you see how much better that is than me you see how much better that is than me going, "Hey, do you have five minutes going, "Hey, do you have five minutes going, "Hey, do you have five minutes for me to tell you about something like for me to tell you about something like for me to tell you about something like you know what I mean?" And that's that's you know what I mean?" And that's that's you know what I mean?" And that's that's what happens. It's and it just it comes what happens. It's and it just it comes what happens. It's and it just it comes right on you to where nobody is nobody's right on you to where nobody is nobody's right on you to where nobody is nobody's prepared. There's a book that my prepared. There's a book that my prepared. There's a book that my housemate was reading, How to Stop housemate was reading, How to Stop housemate was reading, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. Worrying and Start Living. Worrying and Start Living. >> And uh Steven CVY um and one of his >> And uh Steven CVY um and one of his >> And uh Steven CVY um and one of his lesserknowns lesserknowns lesserknowns in How to Stop Worrying and Start in How to Stop Worrying and Start in How to Stop Worrying and Start Living, he says one of the most Living, he says one of the most Living, he says one of the most important things that he used as a important things that he used as a important things that he used as a tactic was to have worry time. tactic was to have worry time. tactic was to have worry time. >> Yeah. Schedule it. >> Yeah. Schedule it. >> Yeah. Schedule it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This is something that I probably should >> This is something that I probably should >> This is something that I probably should worry about. I'm going to wait until worry about. I'm going to wait until worry about. I'm going to wait until Sunday. Sunday 2 p.m. That's my worry Sunday. Sunday 2 p.m. That's my worry Sunday. Sunday 2 p.m. That's my worry hour or worry afternoon or whatever. And hour or worry afternoon or whatever. And hour or worry afternoon or whatever. And there's something about saying, "I don't there's something about saying, "I don't there's something about saying, "I don't need to do this now. I will do it and need to do this now. I will do it and need to do this now. I will do it and this is when this is when this is when >> that closes the loop a little bit." Pop >> that closes the loop a little bit." Pop >> that closes the loop a little bit." Pop it in a note. You have a nice schedule. it in a note. You have a nice schedule. it in a note. You have a nice schedule. Get a nice schedule for your worry Get a nice schedule for your worry Get a nice schedule for your worry Sunday, your worry Sabbath. Sunday, your worry Sabbath. Sunday, your worry Sabbath. >> And uh >> And uh >> And uh >> and um >> and um >> and um >> it means that >> it means that >> it means that >> I am going to deal with it. So it >> I am going to deal with it. So it >> I am going to deal with it. So it doesn't quite you've given it the love doesn't quite you've given it the love doesn't quite you've given it the love that it needs that it needs that it needs >> and um it feels almost like a relational >> and um it feels almost like a relational >> and um it feels almost like a relational equivalent of that. equivalent of that. equivalent of that. >> Yeah. And I think you should also put >> Yeah. And I think you should also put >> Yeah. And I think you should also put pen to paper. I mean, we a lot of the pen to paper. I mean, we a lot of the pen to paper. I mean, we a lot of the times we these things sound good in our times we these things sound good in our times we these things sound good in our head until we actually say them and we head until we actually say them and we head until we actually say them and we realize that that didn't hit like I realize that that didn't hit like I realize that that didn't hit like I thought it would. When you actually put thought it would. When you actually put thought it would. When you actually put pen to paper and write out what you want pen to paper and write out what you want pen to paper and write out what you want to talk about, why you want to talk to talk about, why you want to talk to talk about, why you want to talk about it, and when's the best time to about it, and when's the best time to about it, and when's the best time to bring it up? bring it up? bring it up? >> That gives a different sense of clarity >> That gives a different sense of clarity >> That gives a different sense of clarity as to is this something I really need to as to is this something I really need to as to is this something I really need to say, does it need to be said right now, say, does it need to be said right now, say, does it need to be said right now, and am I the one to say it? And so, when and am I the one to say it? And so, when and am I the one to say it? And so, when you're able to actually write down what you're able to actually write down what you're able to actually write down what am I asking them to do? What what am I am I asking them to do? What what am I am I asking them to do? What what am I asking them to do with this information? asking them to do with this information? asking them to do with this information? Am I just venting to vent or am I asking Am I just venting to vent or am I asking Am I just venting to vent or am I asking them to act or am I asking them to them to act or am I asking them to them to act or am I asking them to listen? Next would be what am I what do listen? Next would be what am I what do listen? Next would be what am I what do I want to walk away from this I want to walk away from this I want to walk away from this conversation? Why do I need this conversation? Why do I need this conversation? Why do I need this conversation? Maybe that's all there is conversation? Maybe that's all there is conversation? Maybe that's all there is to it. But if you actually take the time to it. But if you actually take the time to it. But if you actually take the time to write it down as part of whatever to write it down as part of whatever to write it down as part of whatever habit tracking you're doing, your habit tracking you're doing, your habit tracking you're doing, your conversation is going to go better than conversation is going to go better than conversation is going to go better than if you just kept it all in your head and if you just kept it all in your head and if you just kept it all in your head and then got upset that they didn't react then got upset that they didn't react then got upset that they didn't react the way that you thought they would. A the way that you thought they would. A the way that you thought they would. A good rule is I write things down so that good rule is I write things down so that good rule is I write things down so that my brain can rest. my brain can rest. my brain can rest. >> There's something about >> There's something about >> There's something about I'm going to keep this in working memory I'm going to keep this in working memory I'm going to keep this in working memory because I'm worried that I'm going to because I'm worried that I'm going to because I'm worried that I'm going to forget it. forget it. forget it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I need to bring this thing up and it's >> I need to bring this thing up and it's >> I need to bring this thing up and it's emotionally charged and currently it's emotionally charged and currently it's emotionally charged and currently it's endlessly unresolved, right? endlessly unresolved, right? endlessly unresolved, right? >> So, I'm just going to lock those neural >> So, I'm just going to lock those neural >> So, I'm just going to lock those neural pathways in. I'm going to say that thing pathways in. I'm going to say that thing pathways in. I'm going to say that thing like a [ __ ] mantra. like a [ __ ] mantra. like a [ __ ] mantra. >> This slight this this concern, this >> This slight this this concern, this >> This slight this this concern, this worry. Whereas if it's it sounds so dumb worry. Whereas if it's it sounds so dumb worry. Whereas if it's it sounds so dumb to have a worry list, which is what to have a worry list, which is what to have a worry list, which is what to have a worry. I'm going to worry to have a worry. I'm going to worry to have a worry. I'm going to worry about these things. Oh, and at this time about these things. Oh, and at this time about these things. Oh, and at this time on this day, on this day, on this day, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> At least I don't need to keep it in >> At least I don't need to keep it in >> At least I don't need to keep it in working memory because then I'll worry working memory because then I'll worry working memory because then I'll worry that I forget my worries. that I forget my worries. that I forget my worries. >> Yeah. And infinite regress of worrying >> Yeah. And infinite regress of worrying >> Yeah. And infinite regress of worrying about worrying. about worrying. about worrying. >> Yeah. And then it's just living in your >> Yeah. And then it's just living in your >> Yeah. And then it's just living in your head free, you know? Then then it's head free, you know? Then then it's head free, you know? Then then it's taking up all the space that you could taking up all the space that you could taking up all the space that you could be using towards something else. But I be using towards something else. But I be using towards something else. But I mean, worries are good, but being able mean, worries are good, but being able mean, worries are good, but being able to get them out of your head, I'd say to get them out of your head, I'd say to get them out of your head, I'd say that's even better. What does anger that's even better. What does anger that's even better. What does anger usually hide? usually hide? usually hide? There's a quote that I heard once There's a quote that I heard once There's a quote that I heard once something along the lines of, "I sat something along the lines of, "I sat something along the lines of, "I sat beside my good friend Anger, beside my good friend Anger, beside my good friend Anger, and he turned to me and said, my name and he turned to me and said, my name and he turned to me and said, my name isn't anger, it's grief." isn't anger, it's grief." isn't anger, it's grief." And I think a lot of the times anger is And I think a lot of the times anger is And I think a lot of the times anger is hiding fear. It's hiding sadness. hiding fear. It's hiding sadness. hiding fear. It's hiding sadness. It's hiding grief. All these things that It's hiding grief. All these things that It's hiding grief. All these things that uh are really the true bottom of that uh are really the true bottom of that uh are really the true bottom of that emotion. emotion. emotion. They say in therapy where it's They say in therapy where it's They say in therapy where it's hysterical, it's historical, meaning hysterical, it's historical, meaning hysterical, it's historical, meaning that it comes from something else. And that it comes from something else. And that it comes from something else. And often often often our emotions, our emotions, our emotions, which are extremely complex, we use the which are extremely complex, we use the which are extremely complex, we use the most basic language a caveman would use. most basic language a caveman would use. most basic language a caveman would use. I'm sad. I'm mad. I'm angry. I'm tired. I'm sad. I'm mad. I'm angry. I'm tired. I'm sad. I'm mad. I'm angry. I'm tired. When there's a whole When there's a whole When there's a whole emotional vocabulary to use that's out emotional vocabulary to use that's out emotional vocabulary to use that's out there of if you sift and you sift and there of if you sift and you sift and there of if you sift and you sift and you sift and you sift and you ask where you sift and you sift and you ask where you sift and you sift and you ask where is this, where is this coming from? is this, where is this coming from? is this, where is this coming from? You find that what comes across as anger You find that what comes across as anger You find that what comes across as anger and yelling and injustice usually comes and yelling and injustice usually comes and yelling and injustice usually comes from a deep place of sadness. from a deep place of sadness. from a deep place of sadness. >> Yeah. Yeah, when I look at uh an >> Yeah. Yeah, when I look at uh an >> Yeah. Yeah, when I look at uh an emotions wheel, you see the sort of the emotions wheel, you see the sort of the emotions wheel, you see the sort of the >> more surface level ones and then you >> more surface level ones and then you >> more surface level ones and then you split them out into well there's split them out into well there's split them out into well there's different components of anxiety or different components of anxiety or different components of anxiety or sadness or even grief. Like those aren't sadness or even grief. Like those aren't sadness or even grief. Like those aren't the bottom there's things that are more the bottom there's things that are more the bottom there's things that are more precise than that. And um it makes me precise than that. And um it makes me precise than that. And um it makes me think about how much diet advice for think about how much diet advice for think about how much diet advice for people that want to lose weight. They people that want to lose weight. They people that want to lose weight. They think that they need a huge number of think that they need a huge number of think that they need a huge number of different recipes maybe, but you different recipes maybe, but you different recipes maybe, but you probably have 70% of your calories probably have 70% of your calories probably have 70% of your calories coming from the same six meals. Like coming from the same six meals. Like coming from the same six meals. Like you're eating the same stuff over and you're eating the same stuff over and you're eating the same stuff over and over. So what you need to do is just over. So what you need to do is just over. So what you need to do is just take the small bucket of things that you take the small bucket of things that you take the small bucket of things that you usually do already, right? usually do already, right? usually do already, right? >> And just get a little bit better at >> And just get a little bit better at >> And just get a little bit better at that. And I think with emotions, certain that. And I think with emotions, certain that. And I think with emotions, certain people's predisposition, conditioning, people's predisposition, conditioning, people's predisposition, conditioning, life situation, current environment, life situation, current environment, life situation, current environment, etc., it channels them into grooves etc., it channels them into grooves etc., it channels them into grooves >> of emotions that they typically default >> of emotions that they typically default >> of emotions that they typically default to. Some people get mad, some people get to. Some people get mad, some people get to. Some people get mad, some people get sad, some people get wist, some people sad, some people get wist, some people sad, some people get wist, some people feel grief. feel grief. feel grief. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Some people get depressed or anxious or >> Some people get depressed or anxious or >> Some people get depressed or anxious or whatever. whatever. whatever. >> But if you look a little bit deeper and >> But if you look a little bit deeper and >> But if you look a little bit deeper and if you can try and break them apart, if if you can try and break them apart, if if you can try and break them apart, if you can spend a little bit of time with you can spend a little bit of time with you can spend a little bit of time with them, you go, them, you go, them, you go, >> it's actually not that. It's not those >> it's actually not that. It's not those >> it's actually not that. It's not those five meals. If I look a little bit more five meals. If I look a little bit more five meals. If I look a little bit more closely, it's these, closely, it's these, closely, it's these, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And uh yeah, anger is >> And uh yeah, anger is >> And uh yeah, anger is >> really effective at what it used to do >> really effective at what it used to do >> really effective at what it used to do right before we had law enforcement. right before we had law enforcement. right before we had law enforcement. >> Before we had law enforcement and you >> Before we had law enforcement and you >> Before we had law enforcement and you crossed the line with me, I needed a crossed the line with me, I needed a crossed the line with me, I needed a sufficiently animated response to tell sufficiently animated response to tell sufficiently animated response to tell you, you crossed the line. You're not you, you crossed the line. You're not you, you crossed the line. You're not going to do that again. And I'm going to going to do that again. And I'm going to going to do that again. And I'm going to show you how formidable I am by being show you how formidable I am by being show you how formidable I am by being loud and big and scary. And it's also loud and big and scary. And it's also loud and big and scary. And it's also going to warn everybody else in the going to warn everybody else in the going to warn everybody else in the tribe that's watching that they can't do tribe that's watching that they can't do tribe that's watching that they can't do it to me, too. it to me, too. it to me, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because if they do that, this will >> Because if they do that, this will >> Because if they do that, this will happen and they don't want this to happen and they don't want this to happen and they don't want this to happen. happen. happen. >> But now that response isn't needed in >> But now that response isn't needed in >> But now that response isn't needed in the same way. You can actually bypass the same way. You can actually bypass the same way. You can actually bypass that because presuming that there's no that because presuming that there's no that because presuming that there's no physical threat, you can actually physical threat, you can actually physical threat, you can actually communicate it to somebody in a way communicate it to somebody in a way communicate it to somebody in a way that's way more effective because anger that's way more effective because anger that's way more effective because anger doesn't usually get responded to with doesn't usually get responded to with doesn't usually get responded to with behavior change. that rarely if ever behavior change. that rarely if ever behavior change. that rarely if ever does getting angry at somebody lead to does getting angry at somebody lead to does getting angry at somebody lead to the changing their behavior. I mean, the the changing their behavior. I mean, the the changing their behavior. I mean, the more the harder you push, the more more the harder you push, the more more the harder you push, the more hardened they become. The more you tell hardened they become. The more you tell hardened they become. The more you tell somebody they're wrong, the more somebody they're wrong, the more somebody they're wrong, the more convinced they are that they're right. convinced they are that they're right. convinced they are that they're right. And it wasn't that long ago that we did And it wasn't that long ago that we did And it wasn't that long ago that we did like duels. Like you you disrespected my like duels. Like you you disrespected my like duels. Like you you disrespected my honor in some way, honor in some way, honor in some way, we're going to go shoot it out. And one we're going to go shoot it out. And one we're going to go shoot it out. And one of us may be standing one not um and of us may be standing one not um and of us may be standing one not um and thankfully we don't do that anymore. We thankfully we don't do that anymore. We thankfully we don't do that anymore. We have increased some emotional capacity have increased some emotional capacity have increased some emotional capacity there. But I do think that, you know, there. But I do think that, you know, there. But I do think that, you know, anger is one that anger is one that anger is one that you find, especially in relationships, you find, especially in relationships, you find, especially in relationships, if you're really mad at your spouse or if you're really mad at your spouse or if you're really mad at your spouse or partner or whatever, partner or whatever, partner or whatever, if you just go a little bit deeper, it if you just go a little bit deeper, it if you just go a little bit deeper, it didn't take long for that anger just to didn't take long for that anger just to didn't take long for that anger just to turn into sadness. That's why a lot of turn into sadness. That's why a lot of turn into sadness. That's why a lot of times yelling turns into tears. times yelling turns into tears. times yelling turns into tears. >> Yeah, you see that with people. >> Yeah, you see that with people. >> Yeah, you see that with people. >> Yeah, I saw this on the front door of >> Yeah, I saw this on the front door of >> Yeah, I saw this on the front door of nightclubs a lot. So, these uh girls nightclubs a lot. So, these uh girls nightclubs a lot. So, these uh girls would have been kicked out. Maybe they would have been kicked out. Maybe they would have been kicked out. Maybe they were too drunk. Maybe they've been doing were too drunk. Maybe they've been doing were too drunk. Maybe they've been doing something that they shouldn't have done something that they shouldn't have done something that they shouldn't have done or whatever and they get kicked out or whatever and they get kicked out or whatever and they get kicked out outside and it happened more with maybe outside and it happened more with maybe outside and it happened more with maybe cuz guys are ashamed of allowing their cuz guys are ashamed of allowing their cuz guys are ashamed of allowing their anger to turn into sadness. Or maybe anger to turn into sadness. Or maybe anger to turn into sadness. Or maybe that that's not an emotion that comes that that's not an emotion that comes that that's not an emotion that comes up. I'm not too sure. up. I'm not too sure. up. I'm not too sure. >> But these girls would get kicked out. >> But these girls would get kicked out. >> But these girls would get kicked out. They'd be outside. It's Newcastle, the They'd be outside. It's Newcastle, the They'd be outside. It's Newcastle, the most northerly city in England. It's most northerly city in England. It's most northerly city in England. It's [ __ ] freezing and it's like November [ __ ] freezing and it's like November [ __ ] freezing and it's like November or something. And they're outside in or something. And they're outside in or something. And they're outside in some tiny little party dress and they some tiny little party dress and they some tiny little party dress and they were just having fun with their friends were just having fun with their friends were just having fun with their friends and then they did something and they're and then they did something and they're and then they did something and they're feeling injustice and they'd be shouting feeling injustice and they'd be shouting feeling injustice and they'd be shouting and screaming. It's so funny. door staff and screaming. It's so funny. door staff and screaming. It's so funny. door staff that are inside of a venue come and that are inside of a venue come and that are inside of a venue come and deposit a problem that the door staff deposit a problem that the door staff deposit a problem that the door staff outside of the venue now have to deal outside of the venue now have to deal outside of the venue now have to deal with, with, with, >> right? Some something happened inside >> right? Some something happened inside >> right? Some something happened inside and the guys outside are now justifying and the guys outside are now justifying and the guys outside are now justifying what happened. And the girls would be what happened. And the girls would be what happened. And the girls would be shouting and screaming and like, "I've shouting and screaming and like, "I've shouting and screaming and like, "I've got to go. My friends are in need. got to go. My friends are in need. got to go. My friends are in need. They've got my bag. I'm what about my They've got my bag. I'm what about my They've got my bag. I'm what about my coke? You can't do that. That's not coke? You can't do that. That's not coke? You can't do that. That's not fair. She's a bitch." fair. She's a bitch." fair. She's a bitch." >> And then very quickly that would >> And then very quickly that would >> And then very quickly that would it would turn into a tead because it it would turn into a tead because it it would turn into a tead because it felt like this is injustice. I'm felt like this is injustice. I'm felt like this is injustice. I'm indignant. This isn't fair. That indignant. This isn't fair. That indignant. This isn't fair. That shouldn't have happened to me and I'm shouldn't have happened to me and I'm shouldn't have happened to me and I'm drunk. drunk. drunk. >> Yeah. Yeah, that too. Well, it works the >> Yeah. Yeah, that too. Well, it works the >> Yeah. Yeah, that too. Well, it works the same way with like shame, right? It's same way with like shame, right? It's same way with like shame, right? It's usually shame is met with defiance and usually shame is met with defiance and usually shame is met with defiance and defensiveness and anger and unfairness defensiveness and anger and unfairness defensiveness and anger and unfairness when behind that is usually some type of when behind that is usually some type of when behind that is usually some type of self-loathing sadness self-loathing sadness self-loathing sadness >> underneath it. So, I don't see. >> underneath it. So, I don't see. >> underneath it. So, I don't see. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> It's it's u you know there's a >> It's it's u you know there's a >> It's it's u you know there's a difference between shame and regret. And difference between shame and regret. And difference between shame and regret. And usually whenever you're getting in that usually whenever you're getting in that usually whenever you're getting in that cycle of I can't show my emotion, cycle of I can't show my emotion, cycle of I can't show my emotion, that's that's the same reason why you that's that's the same reason why you that's that's the same reason why you hide what you hide. It's the same reason hide what you hide. It's the same reason hide what you hide. It's the same reason you have the secrets you have because you have the secrets you have because you have the secrets you have because you couldn't imagine life with people you couldn't imagine life with people you couldn't imagine life with people knowing and knowing you have those knowing and knowing you have those knowing and knowing you have those emotions and feelings. And I think emotions and feelings. And I think emotions and feelings. And I think especially for guys like we still feel especially for guys like we still feel especially for guys like we still feel the same things but a lot of us have a the same things but a lot of us have a the same things but a lot of us have a problem with showing it. problem with showing it. problem with showing it. >> You know, we just rather go static. >> You know, we just rather go static. >> You know, we just rather go static. rather go stoic. And that's it's it's rather go stoic. And that's it's it's rather go stoic. And that's it's it's expressing it that's a whole lot harder. expressing it that's a whole lot harder. expressing it that's a whole lot harder. >> What are the biggest mistakes that >> What are the biggest mistakes that >> What are the biggest mistakes that people make when they're on the people make when they're on the people make when they're on the receiving end of aggression? >> That the other person >> That the other person doesn't want to be understood where doesn't want to be understood where doesn't want to be understood where there that's all there is to this there that's all there is to this there that's all there is to this person. If you're on the receiving end person. If you're on the receiving end person. If you're on the receiving end of aggression, of aggression, of aggression, um, one, I think that's you need to lay um, one, I think that's you need to lay um, one, I think that's you need to lay some boundaries to make sure that you're some boundaries to make sure that you're some boundaries to make sure that you're not like assertiveness is good. not like assertiveness is good. not like assertiveness is good. Aggressiveness says, "I don't care about Aggressiveness says, "I don't care about Aggressiveness says, "I don't care about you." Then that's not that's not okay. you." Then that's not that's not okay. you." Then that's not that's not okay. Um, but I think that if you find that Um, but I think that if you find that Um, but I think that if you find that you're on the other side of aggression, you're on the other side of aggression, you're on the other side of aggression, you're dealing with several different you're dealing with several different you're dealing with several different levels of how you want to lay a boundary levels of how you want to lay a boundary levels of how you want to lay a boundary of how I want to be spoken to. So, we of how I want to be spoken to. So, we of how I want to be spoken to. So, we could talk about how do you respond to could talk about how do you respond to could talk about how do you respond to something like that? something like that? something like that? If it's somebody who means something to If it's somebody who means something to If it's somebody who means something to you, then usually that's very telling. you, then usually that's very telling. you, then usually that's very telling. Like we talked about a three a Like we talked about a three a Like we talked about a three a conversation. If somebody comes in at a conversation. If somebody comes in at a conversation. If somebody comes in at a seven, well, that's very telling. That seven, well, that's very telling. That seven, well, that's very telling. That means they're having a conversation in means they're having a conversation in means they're having a conversation in their head that you weren't invited to, their head that you weren't invited to, their head that you weren't invited to, you know, and so it's rather than coming you know, and so it's rather than coming you know, and so it's rather than coming at it with they have to agree with me. at it with they have to agree with me. at it with they have to agree with me. It's this mindset of have something to It's this mindset of have something to It's this mindset of have something to learn, not something to prove. And if I learn, not something to prove. And if I learn, not something to prove. And if I can think with the outset of, I wonder can think with the outset of, I wonder can think with the outset of, I wonder where that's coming from. I wonder why where that's coming from. I wonder why where that's coming from. I wonder why they're responding that way. I wonder they're responding that way. I wonder they're responding that way. I wonder what's happening. I wonder what would what's happening. I wonder what would what's happening. I wonder what would cause that response. Then you're going cause that response. Then you're going cause that response. Then you're going to be in a whole lot better position to to be in a whole lot better position to to be in a whole lot better position to keep yourself from getting emotionally keep yourself from getting emotionally keep yourself from getting emotionally wrapped up in responding in kind wrapped up in responding in kind wrapped up in responding in kind >> with aggression. Aggression would match >> with aggression. Aggression would match >> with aggression. Aggression would match aggression doesn't really go anywhere. aggression doesn't really go anywhere. aggression doesn't really go anywhere. It just anytime that somebody comes at It just anytime that somebody comes at It just anytime that somebody comes at you with aggressiveness and you respond, you with aggressiveness and you respond, you with aggressiveness and you respond, all you've done is just told them that all you've done is just told them that all you've done is just told them that you're exactly what they said that you you're exactly what they said that you you're exactly what they said that you were. You know, you you've just proved were. You know, you you've just proved were. You know, you you've just proved their point and now they're just going their point and now they're just going their point and now they're just going to want to ratchet it up. to want to ratchet it up. to want to ratchet it up. >> How do you think about setting >> How do you think about setting >> How do you think about setting boundaries? Well, boundaries? Well, boundaries? Well, >> you have to focus on the consequences >> you have to focus on the consequences >> you have to focus on the consequences and be okay with it. I think that's one and be okay with it. I think that's one and be okay with it. I think that's one of the hardest parts of boundaries. of the hardest parts of boundaries. of the hardest parts of boundaries. People are okay with saying, "I'm not People are okay with saying, "I'm not People are okay with saying, "I'm not good with this anymore." But their bark good with this anymore." But their bark good with this anymore." But their bark is doesn't really have any bite to it. is doesn't really have any bite to it. is doesn't really have any bite to it. they're not willing to accept the they're not willing to accept the they're not willing to accept the consequences. For me, in simple consequences. For me, in simple consequences. For me, in simple boundaries and conversation, and I know boundaries and conversation, and I know boundaries and conversation, and I know boundaries get talked about a lot, it's boundaries get talked about a lot, it's boundaries get talked about a lot, it's just simply saying one, what you're not just simply saying one, what you're not just simply saying one, what you're not going to do, two, if they continue to do going to do, two, if they continue to do going to do, two, if they continue to do this, and three, what you're willing to this, and three, what you're willing to this, and three, what you're willing to walk away from. So, for example, let's walk away from. So, for example, let's walk away from. So, for example, let's say you're saying something that's say you're saying something that's say you're saying something that's offensive to me. I'm going to say, I offensive to me. I'm going to say, I offensive to me. I'm going to say, I don't engage in conversation with don't engage in conversation with don't engage in conversation with people, they're going to disrespect me, people, they're going to disrespect me, people, they're going to disrespect me, respect me. If you continue to respect me. If you continue to respect me. If you continue to disrespect me, Chris, this is the end of disrespect me, Chris, this is the end of disrespect me, Chris, this is the end of the conversation. Maybe I have to be the conversation. Maybe I have to be the conversation. Maybe I have to be willing to get up and walk away rather willing to get up and walk away rather willing to get up and walk away rather than saying you can't yell at me. If I than saying you can't yell at me. If I than saying you can't yell at me. If I were to turn it to I don't respond to were to turn it to I don't respond to were to turn it to I don't respond to that volume, that's that's a whole that volume, that's that's a whole that volume, that's that's a whole different power move different power move different power move >> that says I'm the one that's going to be >> that says I'm the one that's going to be >> that says I'm the one that's going to be much more in control and confident in much more in control and confident in much more in control and confident in this conversation. The more controlled this conversation. The more controlled this conversation. The more controlled and confident I feel, the less in and confident I feel, the less in and confident I feel, the less in control you're going to feel. control you're going to feel. control you're going to feel. H H H I suppose the difficulty when you're the I suppose the difficulty when you're the I suppose the difficulty when you're the person who is at a three and somebody person who is at a three and somebody person who is at a three and somebody else is at a seven else is at a seven else is at a seven is that the person at a seven doesn't is that the person at a seven doesn't is that the person at a seven doesn't usually want to listen to somebody usually want to listen to somebody usually want to listen to somebody that's at a three. that's at a three. that's at a three. >> They need time to come back down. >> They need time to come back down. >> They need time to come back down. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And >> And >> And if you want to fix if you're in the if you want to fix if you're in the if you want to fix if you're in the mindset of fixing, the only way that mindset of fixing, the only way that mindset of fixing, the only way that they're going to be able to hear you, they're going to be able to hear you, they're going to be able to hear you, even if it makes it worse, is for you to even if it makes it worse, is for you to even if it makes it worse, is for you to go to a seven, which puts both of you at go to a seven, which puts both of you at go to a seven, which puts both of you at an eight. Exactly. an eight. Exactly. an eight. Exactly. >> Uh but yeah, I um the time away, but the >> Uh but yeah, I um the time away, but the >> Uh but yeah, I um the time away, but the time away without feeling like you're time away without feeling like you're time away without feeling like you're abandoning the conversation, which is I abandoning the conversation, which is I abandoning the conversation, which is I suppose where the clear communication suppose where the clear communication suppose where the clear communication comes in, why that's so important. Yeah, comes in, why that's so important. Yeah, comes in, why that's so important. Yeah, there's a difference between just saying there's a difference between just saying there's a difference between just saying I'm out of here, slamming the door, and I'm out of here, slamming the door, and I'm out of here, slamming the door, and leaving versus saying, leaving versus saying, leaving versus saying, >> "I'm not leaving this conversation. I am >> "I'm not leaving this conversation. I am >> "I'm not leaving this conversation. I am going to make sure that we take some going to make sure that we take some going to make sure that we take some time because I can see you need some time because I can see you need some time because I can see you need some space. I'm good with that. space. I'm good with that. space. I'm good with that. You good with talking about this later You good with talking about this later You good with talking about this later this afternoon?" Usually, they'll nod this afternoon?" Usually, they'll nod this afternoon?" Usually, they'll nod their head. Yeah. Or sometimes I can their head. Yeah. Or sometimes I can their head. Yeah. Or sometimes I can tell you when I feel like my wife and I tell you when I feel like my wife and I tell you when I feel like my wife and I are on the same team is if I'll ask are on the same team is if I'll ask are on the same team is if I'll ask something and she'll go, "I'm fine." And something and she'll go, "I'm fine." And something and she'll go, "I'm fine." And I know she's not and I might ask, "You I know she's not and I might ask, "You I know she's not and I might ask, "You give with talking to me about it later." give with talking to me about it later." give with talking to me about it later." And she go, "Yeah." >> You know what I mean? But that like you >> You know what I mean? But that like you have to be able to give that, have to be able to give that, have to be able to give that, >> you know, to say, "Hey, I'm not I don't >> you know, to say, "Hey, I'm not I don't >> you know, to say, "Hey, I'm not I don't want to leave this conversation. I'm not want to leave this conversation. I'm not want to leave this conversation. I'm not I'm not This matters to me. If it I'm not This matters to me. If it I'm not This matters to me. If it matters to you, matters to me. matters to you, matters to me. matters to you, matters to me. >> Chris Voss has a slammer for getting >> Chris Voss has a slammer for getting >> Chris Voss has a slammer for getting people who seem like they have something people who seem like they have something people who seem like they have something on their mind to speak up when they on their mind to speak up when they on their mind to speak up when they don't want to. don't want to. don't want to. >> And it's just seems like there's >> And it's just seems like there's >> And it's just seems like there's something on your mind. something on your mind. something on your mind. >> Yeah, he's the best. I love Chris. The >> Yeah, he's the best. I love Chris. The >> Yeah, he's the best. I love Chris. The seems like sounds like seems like you seems like sounds like seems like you seems like sounds like seems like you have a reason for saying that. But it's have a reason for saying that. But it's have a reason for saying that. But it's also Chris Fals's voice like also Chris Fals's voice like also Chris Fals's voice like >> Yeah, of course. I mean, you hear his >> Yeah, of course. I mean, you hear his >> Yeah, of course. I mean, you hear his voice and he could be like, you know, I voice and he could be like, you know, I voice and he could be like, you know, I think you should give me that couch. And think you should give me that couch. And think you should give me that couch. And I'd be like, he could tell me to suck I'd be like, he could tell me to suck I'd be like, he could tell me to suck his dick and I'd probably his dick and I'd probably his dick and I'd probably >> Yeah, probably. He's He's that good. >> Yeah, probably. He's He's that good. >> Yeah, probably. He's He's that good. >> Look, his voice is >> Look, his voice is >> Look, his voice is >> He's a handsome man. And also the voice. >> He's a handsome man. And also the voice. >> He's a handsome man. And also the voice. >> Yeah. Yeah. Also the voice, you know, uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Also the voice, you know, uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Also the voice, you know, uh Yeah. He's he's got a voice that Yeah. He's he's got a voice that Yeah. He's he's got a voice that naturally just calms you down. Um this naturally just calms you down. Um this naturally just calms you down. Um this seems like sounds like so if you seems like sounds like so if you seems like sounds like so if you somebody says something and you go, somebody says something and you go, somebody says something and you go, "Sounds like you have a reason for "Sounds like you have a reason for "Sounds like you have a reason for saying that. Sounds like that really saying that. Sounds like that really saying that. Sounds like that really matters to you. That seems like a really matters to you. That seems like a really matters to you. That seems like a really big deal." They go, "Yeah, yeah, it was big deal." They go, "Yeah, yeah, it was big deal." They go, "Yeah, yeah, it was a big really big deal." But it's the a big really big deal." But it's the a big really big deal." But it's the same thing with like passive aggressive same thing with like passive aggressive same thing with like passive aggressive people. You can use that same tactic. people. You can use that same tactic. people. You can use that same tactic. >> Okay. Tell me how to deal with passive >> Okay. Tell me how to deal with passive >> Okay. Tell me how to deal with passive aggressive people. So if somebody's aggressive people. So if somebody's aggressive people. So if somebody's being passive aggressive, it's usually being passive aggressive, it's usually being passive aggressive, it's usually something that was taught in childhood, something that was taught in childhood, something that was taught in childhood, meaning they they've learned that their meaning they they've learned that their meaning they they've learned that their needs weren't going to be met right in needs weren't going to be met right in needs weren't going to be met right in that moment. So they would rather kind that moment. So they would rather kind that moment. So they would rather kind of expect you to solve it for them. In of expect you to solve it for them. In of expect you to solve it for them. In other words, they want you to other words, they want you to other words, they want you to um they don't want to be direct. They um they don't want to be direct. They um they don't want to be direct. They just expect you to find the answer. So, just expect you to find the answer. So, just expect you to find the answer. So, it's the people that say things like, it's the people that say things like, it's the people that say things like, you know, it should be nice if I was you know, it should be nice if I was you know, it should be nice if I was invited to something like that. Like, invited to something like that. Like, invited to something like that. Like, they they're they're not going to voice they they're they're not going to voice they they're they're not going to voice it. So, they would rather kind of it. So, they would rather kind of it. So, they would rather kind of they're not going to use the front door. they're not going to use the front door. they're not going to use the front door. They're always going to use the backside They're always going to use the backside They're always going to use the backside exit. And instead of exit. And instead of exit. And instead of meeting that, you can say, "Sounds like meeting that, you can say, "Sounds like meeting that, you can say, "Sounds like you have a reason for saying that. you have a reason for saying that. you have a reason for saying that. Sounds like there's more to that." Sounds like there's more to that." Sounds like there's more to that." Usually, they have an answer for that. Usually, they have an answer for that. Usually, they have an answer for that. Um or if you were to say if they're Um or if you were to say if they're Um or if you were to say if they're being passive, you can say I being passive, you can say I being passive, you can say I what's coming up for you? what's coming up for you? what's coming up for you? That's one I like to use for a lot of That's one I like to use for a lot of That's one I like to use for a lot of different things is what's coming up. different things is what's coming up. different things is what's coming up. So it has a way of So it has a way of So it has a way of disarming people in a non-defensive disarming people in a non-defensive disarming people in a non-defensive posture rather than saying what's wrong posture rather than saying what's wrong posture rather than saying what's wrong with you. with you. with you. >> I'm g say what's coming up for you? >> I'm g say what's coming up for you? >> I'm g say what's coming up for you? meaning that I'm signaling that there's meaning that I'm signaling that there's meaning that I'm signaling that there's something else going on in here that I'm something else going on in here that I'm something else going on in here that I'm trying to help you bring to light. But trying to help you bring to light. But trying to help you bring to light. But that sounds like seems like sounds like that sounds like seems like sounds like that sounds like seems like sounds like you have a reason for saying that. Seems you have a reason for saying that. Seems you have a reason for saying that. Seems like there's something else that you're like there's something else that you're like there's something else that you're not saying not saying not saying >> as a way of getting the passive >> as a way of getting the passive >> as a way of getting the passive aggressive people. But I mean, if it's aggressive people. But I mean, if it's aggressive people. But I mean, if it's entrenched in them, they're all they're entrenched in them, they're all they're entrenched in them, they're all they're going to do is really double down. I going to do is really double down. I going to do is really double down. I mean, I mean, it would just be nice, you mean, I mean, it would just be nice, you mean, I mean, it would just be nice, you know, if somebody were to invite me to know, if somebody were to invite me to know, if somebody were to invite me to something. But no, that's fine. I mean, something. But no, that's fine. I mean, something. But no, that's fine. I mean, you can't you can't help the victim you can't you can't help the victim you can't you can't help the victim mentality that's not going to switch by mentality that's not going to switch by mentality that's not going to switch by just a few sentences. Before we just a few sentences. Before we just a few sentences. Before we continue, most people in their 30s are continue, most people in their 30s are continue, most people in their 30s are still training hard. Their protein is still training hard. Their protein is still training hard. Their protein is dialed in. They sleep better than they dialed in. They sleep better than they dialed in. They sleep better than they did in their 20s. Discipline is not the did in their 20s. Discipline is not the did in their 20s. Discipline is not the issue, but recovery feels somewhat issue, but recovery feels somewhat issue, but recovery feels somewhat different. Strength gains take a little different. Strength gains take a little different. Strength gains take a little longer. The margin for error starts to longer. The margin for error starts to longer. The margin for error starts to shrink. And that is why I'm such a huge shrink. And that is why I'm such a huge shrink. And that is why I'm such a huge fan of timeline. You see, mitochondria fan of timeline. You see, mitochondria fan of timeline. You see, mitochondria are the energy producers inside of your are the energy producers inside of your are the energy producers inside of your muscle cells. As they weaken with age, muscle cells. As they weaken with age, muscle cells. As they weaken with age, your ability to generate power and your ability to generate power and your ability to generate power and recover effectively changes even if your recover effectively changes even if your recover effectively changes even if your habits stay strong. Mitoure from habits stay strong. Mitoure from habits stay strong. Mitoure from timeline contains the only clinically timeline contains the only clinically timeline contains the only clinically validated form of ureiththaline A used validated form of ureiththaline A used validated form of ureiththaline A used in human trials. It promotes mphagy, in human trials. It promotes mphagy, in human trials. It promotes mphagy, which is your body's natural process for which is your body's natural process for which is your body's natural process for clearing out damaged mitochondria and clearing out damaged mitochondria and clearing out damaged mitochondria and renewing healthy ones. In studies, this renewing healthy ones. In studies, this renewing healthy ones. In studies, this supported mitochondrial function and supported mitochondrial function and supported mitochondrial function and muscle strength in older adults. It's muscle strength in older adults. It's muscle strength in older adults. It's not about pushing harder. It's about not about pushing harder. It's about not about pushing harder. It's about actually supporting the cellular actually supporting the cellular actually supporting the cellular machinery underneath your training. If machinery underneath your training. If machinery underneath your training. If you care about staying strong into your you care about staying strong into your you care about staying strong into your 30s, 40s, and 50s and beyond, this is 30s, 40s, and 50s and beyond, this is 30s, 40s, and 50s and beyond, this is foundational. Best of all, there is a foundational. Best of all, there is a foundational. Best of all, there is a 30-day money back guarantee, plus free 30-day money back guarantee, plus free 30-day money back guarantee, plus free shipping in the US, and they ship shipping in the US, and they ship shipping in the US, and they ship internationally. And right now, you can internationally. And right now, you can internationally. And right now, you can get up to 20% off by going to the link get up to 20% off by going to the link get up to 20% off by going to the link in the description below or heading to in the description below or heading to in the description below or heading to timeline.com/modernwisdom timeline.com/modernwisdom timeline.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's checkout. That's checkout. That's timeline.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. Dig in and modernwisdom at checkout. Dig in more to the genesis of the passive more to the genesis of the passive more to the genesis of the passive aggressive person in childhood. I aggressive person in childhood. I aggressive person in childhood. I thought that was interesting. thought that was interesting. thought that was interesting. >> Yeah. Well, you think of like we just >> Yeah. Well, you think of like we just >> Yeah. Well, you think of like we just saw on that Theo clip and how we we saw on that Theo clip and how we we saw on that Theo clip and how we we respond to everything. How we were respond to everything. How we were respond to everything. How we were modeled in communication and how we were modeled in communication and how we were modeled in communication and how we were treated in children, what they call, you treated in children, what they call, you treated in children, what they call, you know, your childhood trauma shows up all know, your childhood trauma shows up all know, your childhood trauma shows up all the time. And so it comes into these the time. And so it comes into these the time. And so it comes into these these filters that you apply. So maybe these filters that you apply. So maybe these filters that you apply. So maybe you're in an argument with you're in an argument with you're in an argument with your wife or your girlfriend or whatever your wife or your girlfriend or whatever your wife or your girlfriend or whatever and and and you felt controlled in that moment you felt controlled in that moment you felt controlled in that moment because she made some snide comment because she made some snide comment because she made some snide comment about what you can or can't do and what about what you can or can't do and what about what you can or can't do and what she didn't want you to do and you didn't she didn't want you to do and you didn't she didn't want you to do and you didn't like that because you get to you're a like that because you get to you're a like that because you get to you're a guy who gets to decide your own thing guy who gets to decide your own thing guy who gets to decide your own thing and all of a sudden you're voicing and and all of a sudden you're voicing and and all of a sudden you're voicing and yelling at what could have been a level yelling at what could have been a level yelling at what could have been a level three. You're now to level 11. three. You're now to level 11. three. You're now to level 11. But really, deep down, what your body But really, deep down, what your body But really, deep down, what your body felt was you were back to that felt was you were back to that felt was you were back to that 8-year-old boy whose mom wouldn't let 8-year-old boy whose mom wouldn't let 8-year-old boy whose mom wouldn't let him go outside without first doing X, Y, him go outside without first doing X, Y, him go outside without first doing X, Y, and Z or a a dad that made him do that and Z or a a dad that made him do that and Z or a a dad that made him do that didn't make him feel safe. And so, didn't make him feel safe. And so, didn't make him feel safe. And so, you're you're responding you're you're responding you're you're responding based on old scripts. And so we all have based on old scripts. And so we all have based on old scripts. And so we all have these old scripts like old tape these old scripts like old tape these old scripts like old tape cassettes that we play anytime we feel cassettes that we play anytime we feel cassettes that we play anytime we feel these big feelings of I'm being these big feelings of I'm being these big feelings of I'm being controlled. I'm being pressured. I'm controlled. I'm being pressured. I'm controlled. I'm being pressured. I'm being caged. I'm not my own person. I being caged. I'm not my own person. I being caged. I'm not my own person. I don't feel safe. I'm never going to feel don't feel safe. I'm never going to feel don't feel safe. I'm never going to feel safe. I'm too much. These old scripts safe. I'm too much. These old scripts safe. I'm too much. These old scripts that we've been playing in our head. And that we've been playing in our head. And that we've been playing in our head. And so we we show those all the time in the so we we show those all the time in the so we we show those all the time in the language that we're using. So it's not language that we're using. So it's not language that we're using. So it's not that you're seeing the person and that you're seeing the person and that you're seeing the person and talking to them. It's usually it's a talking to them. It's usually it's a talking to them. It's usually it's a reflection of something that happened in reflection of something that happened in reflection of something that happened in your past that's showing back up. your past that's showing back up. your past that's showing back up. >> And the passive aggressive person had >> And the passive aggressive person had >> And the passive aggressive person had needs that weren't reliably met. needs that weren't reliably met. needs that weren't reliably met. >> Yeah. It it could have been I mean the >> Yeah. It it could have been I mean the >> Yeah. It it could have been I mean the Well, here's the the takeaway though is Well, here's the the takeaway though is Well, here's the the takeaway though is that at one point in time that passive that at one point in time that passive that at one point in time that passive aggressiveness had a utility to it. aggressiveness had a utility to it. aggressiveness had a utility to it. There was a time when There was a time when There was a time when maybe they didn't they weren't safe to maybe they didn't they weren't safe to maybe they didn't they weren't safe to say what they actually needed. say what they actually needed. say what they actually needed. >> Their aggression wasn't safe. >> Their aggression wasn't safe. >> Their aggression wasn't safe. >> Their aggression wasn't safe. Voicing >> Their aggression wasn't safe. Voicing >> Their aggression wasn't safe. Voicing anything wasn't safe. And so it was they anything wasn't safe. And so it was they anything wasn't safe. And so it was they found that their life went better when found that their life went better when found that their life went better when they didn't have to voice it. Yeah. They they didn't have to voice it. Yeah. They they didn't have to voice it. Yeah. They they held it in and so they found some they held it in and so they found some they held it in and so they found some way to to cope and expect somebody else way to to cope and expect somebody else way to to cope and expect somebody else to read their mind rather than something to read their mind rather than something to read their mind rather than something else. But there's a lot of different else. But there's a lot of different else. But there's a lot of different things that you know that show up from things that you know that show up from things that you know that show up from childhood that we're just big kids. childhood that we're just big kids. childhood that we're just big kids. >> What about when it comes to delivering >> What about when it comes to delivering >> What about when it comes to delivering bad news to people? >> It's a required >> It's a required life lesson like there's it's impossible life lesson like there's it's impossible life lesson like there's it's impossible to not get around that and people get to not get around that and people get to not get around that and people get really uncomfortable with it and usually really uncomfortable with it and usually really uncomfortable with it and usually it's because they're feeling other it's because they're feeling other it's because they're feeling other people's feelings for them like I I people's feelings for them like I I people's feelings for them like I I don't want to say that because that's don't want to say that because that's don't want to say that because that's not nice like they feel like they have not nice like they feel like they have not nice like they feel like they have to be nice but the the real takeaway is to be nice but the the real takeaway is to be nice but the the real takeaway is being choosing to be kind being choosing to be kind being choosing to be kind says it's focus all on the the surface says it's focus all on the the surface says it's focus all on the the surface the pleasant trees I can't say that I the pleasant trees I can't say that I the pleasant trees I can't say that I can't tell you the truth Chris that's can't tell you the truth Chris that's can't tell you the truth Chris that's not Nice. All right. not Nice. All right. not Nice. All right. Kindness says, "I care enough about you Kindness says, "I care enough about you Kindness says, "I care enough about you to tell you the truth. Because I care to tell you the truth. Because I care to tell you the truth. Because I care about you, I need to give you this this about you, I need to give you this this about you, I need to give you this this really hard news of what it's going to really hard news of what it's going to really hard news of what it's going to this is what it's going to be." And you this is what it's going to be." And you this is what it's going to be." And you can use labels simple as what we just can use labels simple as what we just can use labels simple as what we just talked about a minute ago. This is going talked about a minute ago. This is going talked about a minute ago. This is going to be some hard news. You're not going to be some hard news. You're not going to be some hard news. You're not going to like what I have to say. to like what I have to say. to like what I have to say. >> Give them a moment and then deliver the >> Give them a moment and then deliver the >> Give them a moment and then deliver the news. But what you can't do is twist a news. But what you can't do is twist a news. But what you can't do is twist a knife where you start to blame them knife where you start to blame them knife where you start to blame them first, right? If you need to give bad first, right? If you need to give bad first, right? If you need to give bad news, like imagine if I was just going news, like imagine if I was just going news, like imagine if I was just going to break up with you right now, the to break up with you right now, the to break up with you right now, the worst thing to do about it is all of a worst thing to do about it is all of a worst thing to do about it is all of a sudden go, sudden go, sudden go, you know, I just think you're so great, you know, I just think you're so great, you know, I just think you're so great, uh, Chris and I've really enjoyed a lot uh, Chris and I've really enjoyed a lot uh, Chris and I've really enjoyed a lot of time we start talking in past tense of time we start talking in past tense of time we start talking in past tense as if like what do you as if like what do you as if like what do you >> I was enjoying that stuff. >> I was enjoying that stuff. >> I was enjoying that stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just keep just keep going. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just keep just keep going. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just keep just keep going. um to where you know you're not you're um to where you know you're not you're um to where you know you're not you're not being straight up and being honest. not being straight up and being honest. not being straight up and being honest. >> And often that's sometimes the kindest >> And often that's sometimes the kindest >> And often that's sometimes the kindest thing you can do is be as direct as you thing you can do is be as direct as you thing you can do is be as direct as you can be when it comes to sad news. can be when it comes to sad news. can be when it comes to sad news. >> Let's say that you need to break up with >> Let's say that you need to break up with >> Let's say that you need to break up with a partner and you're feeling super a partner and you're feeling super a partner and you're feeling super nervous about it. How would you guide nervous about it. How would you guide nervous about it. How would you guide that person through the conversation? when I would use a label that means when I would use a label that means rather than and this is assuming you set rather than and this is assuming you set rather than and this is assuming you set aside time and you're not trying to do aside time and you're not trying to do aside time and you're not trying to do it through a text message or you know it through a text message or you know it through a text message or you know while you're while you're while you're >> apparently that's go now that's looked >> apparently that's go now that's looked >> apparently that's go now that's looked down on to do it over text. down on to do it over text. down on to do it over text. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's probably not a good >> Yeah. Yeah. It's probably not a good >> Yeah. Yeah. It's probably not a good idea or you're doing it in the middle of idea or you're doing it in the middle of idea or you're doing it in the middle of you know a movie or something. Let's you know a movie or something. Let's you know a movie or something. Let's assume you've already put good time assume you've already put good time assume you've already put good time around this to have a good conversation. around this to have a good conversation. around this to have a good conversation. It's to say, "I need to have a hard It's to say, "I need to have a hard It's to say, "I need to have a hard conversation with you." conversation with you." conversation with you." And then you need the first words out of And then you need the first words out of And then you need the first words out of your mouth need to be. This isn't a relationship that I can see This isn't a relationship that I can see myself continuing in. Like you see, all myself continuing in. Like you see, all myself continuing in. Like you see, all of a sudden, I'm getting right to the of a sudden, I'm getting right to the of a sudden, I'm getting right to the point rather than saying, "I need to point rather than saying, "I need to point rather than saying, "I need to have something hard. You've just been have something hard. You've just been have something hard. You've just been great." And you know, it's not you, it's great." And you know, it's not you, it's great." And you know, it's not you, it's me, and you know, we just been we've had me, and you know, we just been we've had me, and you know, we just been we've had all these memories. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. all these memories. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. all these memories. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. instead of all that, get right to the instead of all that, get right to the instead of all that, get right to the point. And it's it's much easier. People point. And it's it's much easier. People point. And it's it's much easier. People can take can take can take bad news. It's going to have a harder bad news. It's going to have a harder bad news. It's going to have a harder impact, but the rest of it is going to impact, but the rest of it is going to impact, but the rest of it is going to be a whole lot better for you rather be a whole lot better for you rather be a whole lot better for you rather than trying to sound nice and be like, I than trying to sound nice and be like, I than trying to sound nice and be like, I don't want to upset. It's all me. It's don't want to upset. It's all me. It's don't want to upset. It's all me. It's not It's not you at all. Even though not It's not you at all. Even though not It's not you at all. Even though that's softer in the moment, that that's softer in the moment, that that's softer in the moment, that long-term impact is going to be a whole long-term impact is going to be a whole long-term impact is going to be a whole lot worse because because you weren't lot worse because because you weren't lot worse because because you weren't really being really being really being >> honest >> honest >> honest >> with me. And so even if you were need to >> with me. And so even if you were need to >> with me. And so even if you were need to fire somebody, bring them in, fire somebody, bring them in, fire somebody, bring them in, this news is probably going to shock this news is probably going to shock this news is probably going to shock you. I need to let you go. And that's you. I need to let you go. And that's you. I need to let you go. And that's when you get to say, I've enjoyed having when you get to say, I've enjoyed having when you get to say, I've enjoyed having you as a a person. You've done great you as a a person. You've done great you as a a person. You've done great with the company. Or maybe it's in a with the company. Or maybe it's in a with the company. Or maybe it's in a relationship. I I I need to be out of relationship. I I I need to be out of relationship. I I I need to be out of this relationship. I need to move on. this relationship. I need to move on. this relationship. I need to move on. This relationship isn't working for me. This relationship isn't working for me. This relationship isn't working for me. Whatever it is. And that's where you get Whatever it is. And that's where you get Whatever it is. And that's where you get to say, I've to say, I've to say, I've I've learned a lot from you. I've I've learned a lot from you. I've I've learned a lot from you. I've learned and whatever it is, the nice learned and whatever it is, the nice learned and whatever it is, the nice stuff, but don't start with the stuff, but don't start with the stuff, but don't start with the pleasantries and then end with the hard. pleasantries and then end with the hard. pleasantries and then end with the hard. I think Chris has another one which is I think Chris has another one which is I think Chris has another one which is if you're saying that you can't go to an if you're saying that you can't go to an if you're saying that you can't go to an event, event, event, say I can't go say I can't go say I can't go >> or I can't make it. >> or I can't make it. >> or I can't make it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> First, >> First, >> First, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Don't say things have got so hard >> Don't say things have got so hard >> Don't say things have got so hard recently and this chaos came up and I've recently and this chaos came up and I've recently and this chaos came up and I've got this thing and then that at the end. got this thing and then that at the end. got this thing and then that at the end. Just Just Just >> don't bury the [ __ ] lead, dude. >> don't bury the [ __ ] lead, dude. >> don't bury the [ __ ] lead, dude. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Put it up top. >> Put it up top. >> Put it up top. >> I very much uh align with that. So, what >> I very much uh align with that. So, what >> I very much uh align with that. So, what I I teach is you start with the no I I teach is you start with the no I I teach is you start with the no first. Most people start with the the first. Most people start with the the first. Most people start with the the thanks first. thanks first. thanks first. >> They start with the gratitude. They go, >> They start with the gratitude. They go, >> They start with the gratitude. They go, "Thank you so much. I'd love to, but I "Thank you so much. I'd love to, but I "Thank you so much. I'd love to, but I can't." Um, and but the word but has a can't." Um, and but the word but has a can't." Um, and but the word but has a way of deleting everything that came way of deleting everything that came way of deleting everything that came before it. before it. before it. >> Like, I love you, but >> Like, I love you, but >> Like, I love you, but >> you're crazy. You know, whatever. >> you're crazy. You know, whatever. >> you're crazy. You know, whatever. >> That might be true. Yeah. Those things >> That might be true. Yeah. Those things >> That might be true. Yeah. Those things might be true. might be true. might be true. >> Sure. Sure they could. Um, however, >> Sure. Sure they could. Um, however, >> Sure. Sure they could. Um, however, yeah, you want to start with the no yeah, you want to start with the no yeah, you want to start with the no first. So, first. So, first. So, >> I can't. Period. Then the gratitude. >> I can't. Period. Then the gratitude. >> I can't. Period. Then the gratitude. Thank you so much for inviting me. Then Thank you so much for inviting me. Then Thank you so much for inviting me. Then add in some um kindness. I'm sure it's add in some um kindness. I'm sure it's add in some um kindness. I'm sure it's going to be a great time. Hope you have going to be a great time. Hope you have going to be a great time. Hope you have a wonderful time. Knock yourselves out. a wonderful time. Knock yourselves out. a wonderful time. Knock yourselves out. Whatever it is. But don't don't that Whatever it is. But don't don't that Whatever it is. But don't don't that compliment sandwich compliment sandwich compliment sandwich is a little hard to chew. Dude, I've got is a little hard to chew. Dude, I've got is a little hard to chew. Dude, I've got a [ __ ] fantasy going on in my head of a [ __ ] fantasy going on in my head of a [ __ ] fantasy going on in my head of me, you, Chris Voss, and James Sexon me, you, Chris Voss, and James Sexon me, you, Chris Voss, and James Sexon doing an episode together. I'm going to doing an episode together. I'm going to doing an episode together. I'm going to try and make that [ __ ] happen before the try and make that [ __ ] happen before the try and make that [ __ ] happen before the end of the year. I think that would be end of the year. I think that would be end of the year. I think that would be straight fire. I think that would be so straight fire. I think that would be so straight fire. I think that would be so much [ __ ] fun. much [ __ ] fun. much [ __ ] fun. >> And I put something in the middle of the >> And I put something in the middle of the >> And I put something in the middle of the table that's remotely valuable or that table that's remotely valuable or that table that's remotely valuable or that most people most of you guys want. I'm most people most of you guys want. I'm most people most of you guys want. I'm like, "Hey, negotiate over this." like, "Hey, negotiate over this." like, "Hey, negotiate over this." >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> See, it's like a gladiatorial fight to >> See, it's like a gladiatorial fight to >> See, it's like a gladiatorial fight to the death. the death. the death. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And somebody somebody gets to [ __ ] I >> And somebody somebody gets to [ __ ] I >> And somebody somebody gets to [ __ ] I don't know. I don't know what you got. don't know. I don't know what you got. don't know. I don't know what you got. Um, so you're having a difficult Um, so you're having a difficult Um, so you're having a difficult conversation, you're firing a member of conversation, you're firing a member of conversation, you're firing a member of staff or you're breaking up with staff or you're breaking up with staff or you're breaking up with somebody or something similar. somebody or something similar. somebody or something similar. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And during that conversation, >> And during that conversation, >> And during that conversation, the emotions begin to come up the emotions begin to come up the emotions begin to come up >> and there is always this temptation to >> and there is always this temptation to >> and there is always this temptation to I must even bail out of the I must even bail out of the I must even bail out of the conversation. conversation. conversation. >> So like poly eject to >> So like poly eject to >> So like poly eject to >> you see that somebody begins to get >> you see that somebody begins to get >> you see that somebody begins to get upset and then the employee comes into upset and then the employee comes into upset and then the employee comes into work tomorrow and you go I thought you work tomorrow and you go I thought you work tomorrow and you go I thought you were firing them. were firing them. were firing them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. What about >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. What about >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. What about that? Because I think that a lot of that? Because I think that a lot of that? Because I think that a lot of people enter into conversations with the people enter into conversations with the people enter into conversations with the intention of doing the thing. intention of doing the thing. intention of doing the thing. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And leave a conversation having had this >> And leave a conversation having had this >> And leave a conversation having had this weird spaghetti junction mess. Do you weird spaghetti junction mess. Do you weird spaghetti junction mess. Do you know what I mean? Like when people have know what I mean? Like when people have know what I mean? Like when people have difficult conversations, often they do difficult conversations, often they do difficult conversations, often they do not they do not finish what they meant not they do not finish what they meant not they do not finish what they meant to start. Yeah. to start. Yeah. to start. Yeah. >> How would you navigate through that? >> How would you navigate through that? >> How would you navigate through that? Okay. It's to me it's like people have Okay. It's to me it's like people have Okay. It's to me it's like people have no problem 3 minutes in a cold plunge, no problem 3 minutes in a cold plunge, no problem 3 minutes in a cold plunge, but give them two seconds having to be but give them two seconds having to be but give them two seconds having to be honest with somebody in a conversation honest with somebody in a conversation honest with somebody in a conversation terrifies them. terrifies them. terrifies them. >> It's like, okay, think of it as like a >> It's like, okay, think of it as like a >> It's like, okay, think of it as like a cold plunge. You start it and at the cold plunge. You start it and at the cold plunge. You start it and at the beginning, what is it? You're trying to beginning, what is it? You're trying to beginning, what is it? You're trying to catch your breath. You're trying, I catch your breath. You're trying, I catch your breath. You're trying, I can't do this. And then all of a sudden, can't do this. And then all of a sudden, can't do this. And then all of a sudden, what? You have some clarity and you what? You have some clarity and you what? You have some clarity and you realize I can do this. And you realize realize I can do this. And you realize realize I can do this. And you realize your body's going through this and there your body's going through this and there your body's going through this and there will be an end to it. Same way in will be an end to it. Same way in will be an end to it. Same way in difficult conversation. Yeah, it's going difficult conversation. Yeah, it's going difficult conversation. Yeah, it's going to be a splash. I they have I have what to be a splash. I they have I have what to be a splash. I they have I have what I teach is cold cold shower I teach is cold cold shower I teach is cold cold shower conversations as as example of those of conversations as as example of those of conversations as as example of those of like it's gonna it's going to be a shock like it's gonna it's going to be a shock like it's gonna it's going to be a shock to the system at the beginning, but to the system at the beginning, but to the system at the beginning, but we're going to see our way out of it to we're going to see our way out of it to we're going to see our way out of it to where you you start to have the hard where you you start to have the hard where you you start to have the hard words. You've already said, I we need to words. You've already said, I we need to words. You've already said, I we need to break up. This relationship isn't for me break up. This relationship isn't for me break up. This relationship isn't for me or I need to let you go. or I need to let you go. or I need to let you go. >> Whatever it is, you say the hard news >> Whatever it is, you say the hard news >> Whatever it is, you say the hard news and then you realize, okay, I did it. and then you realize, okay, I did it. and then you realize, okay, I did it. like, okay, I I had I said the thing and like, okay, I I had I said the thing and like, okay, I I had I said the thing and now we can have a lot more clarity. Now now we can have a lot more clarity. Now now we can have a lot more clarity. Now you've kind of gotten over. It's way you've kind of gotten over. It's way you've kind of gotten over. It's way easier to crest the mountain when you easier to crest the mountain when you easier to crest the mountain when you just like go right up and then it gets just like go right up and then it gets just like go right up and then it gets down. It's when you have a slow go up. down. It's when you have a slow go up. down. It's when you have a slow go up. Yeah. Way Yeah. Way Yeah. Way >> I haven't got there yet. I haven't done >> I haven't got there yet. I haven't done >> I haven't got there yet. I haven't done it yet. There's still time for me to it yet. There's still time for me to it yet. There's still time for me to avoid this mountain. avoid this mountain. avoid this mountain. >> Exactly. Exactly. And so it's it's just >> Exactly. Exactly. And so it's it's just >> Exactly. Exactly. And so it's it's just like that. So you find ways for me in my like that. So you find ways for me in my like that. So you find ways for me in my world as an attorney. world as an attorney. world as an attorney. >> I mean I grew up in courtrooms and >> I mean I grew up in courtrooms and >> I mean I grew up in courtrooms and depositions and watching this. So, I've depositions and watching this. So, I've depositions and watching this. So, I've seen a lot of emotional seen a lot of emotional seen a lot of emotional fighting and yelling and all sorts of fighting and yelling and all sorts of fighting and yelling and all sorts of hard tactics against each other. Super hard tactics against each other. Super hard tactics against each other. Super adversarial. I've seen a lot of fights adversarial. I've seen a lot of fights adversarial. I've seen a lot of fights of arguments. of arguments. of arguments. >> Don't put me in a ring. I'm I won't be >> Don't put me in a ring. I'm I won't be >> Don't put me in a ring. I'm I won't be any good in a with boxing gloves. Sean any good in a with boxing gloves. Sean any good in a with boxing gloves. Sean Strickland's going to eat you alive. Strickland's going to eat you alive. Strickland's going to eat you alive. >> Oh, no. No doubt. I' I'd bail out. >> Oh, no. No doubt. I' I'd bail out. >> Oh, no. No doubt. I' I'd bail out. That's what I'd bail out. But whenever That's what I'd bail out. But whenever That's what I'd bail out. But whenever you increase your capacity to hold other you increase your capacity to hold other you increase your capacity to hold other people's emotion, people's emotion, people's emotion, meaning you can feel all your feelings meaning you can feel all your feelings meaning you can feel all your feelings without me holding them without me holding them without me holding them and I know that I'm in control of myself and I know that I'm in control of myself and I know that I'm in control of myself and I'm going to continue to breathing and I'm going to continue to breathing and I'm going to continue to breathing through it and I'm not going to be through it and I'm not going to be through it and I'm not going to be holding what you're presenting, the holding what you're presenting, the holding what you're presenting, the better it gets. Like the more I realize better it gets. Like the more I realize better it gets. Like the more I realize that that that disappointment is part of the game. Like disappointment is part of the game. Like disappointment is part of the game. Like to be a great leader, to be a great um to be a great leader, to be a great um to be a great leader, to be a great um to be a good person in my world, you to be a good person in my world, you to be a good person in my world, you have to learn the art of disappointing have to learn the art of disappointing have to learn the art of disappointing people. In other words, telling them people. In other words, telling them people. In other words, telling them sometimes what they need to hear, not sometimes what they need to hear, not sometimes what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. what they want to hear. what they want to hear. Makes me think about when parents of Makes me think about when parents of Makes me think about when parents of missing children go on the news, missing children go on the news, missing children go on the news, what is it that they always say? We just what is it that they always say? We just what is it that they always say? We just want to know. want to know. want to know. >> Yeah. We just want to know because the >> Yeah. We just want to know because the >> Yeah. We just want to know because the open loop is the worst thing. open loop is the worst thing. open loop is the worst thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The open loop is where the most pain is. >> The open loop is where the most pain is. >> The open loop is where the most pain is. And it I I'm sure that no parent would And it I I'm sure that no parent would And it I I'm sure that no parent would say this, but logically it kind of makes say this, but logically it kind of makes say this, but logically it kind of makes sense that sense that sense that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> finding the child dead in some ways >> finding the child dead in some ways >> finding the child dead in some ways would be emotionally preferable to would be emotionally preferable to would be emotionally preferable to living for decades in the uncertainty. living for decades in the uncertainty. living for decades in the uncertainty. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I mean, no parents ever going to >> And I mean, no parents ever going to >> And I mean, no parents ever going to come out and say that. Obviously, they come out and say that. Obviously, they come out and say that. Obviously, they actually probably don't want that, but actually probably don't want that, but actually probably don't want that, but you understand what I mean. the closing you understand what I mean. the closing you understand what I mean. the closing closing that loop is exactly what people closing that loop is exactly what people closing that loop is exactly what people want, even though it's what your body is want, even though it's what your body is want, even though it's what your body is telling you absolutely not to do. telling you absolutely not to do. telling you absolutely not to do. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, when you're able to break up with >> So, when you're able to break up with >> So, when you're able to break up with somebody and not leave them guessing somebody and not leave them guessing somebody and not leave them guessing why, or you need to fire somebody, why, or you need to fire somebody, why, or you need to fire somebody, whatever the hard news is, and not leave whatever the hard news is, and not leave whatever the hard news is, and not leave them guessing why, them guessing why, them guessing why, that is you acting in alignment with that is you acting in alignment with that is you acting in alignment with integrity. That's you acting in integrity. That's you acting in integrity. That's you acting in alignment with your values. It's it's alignment with your values. It's it's alignment with your values. It's it's you going from nice guy to a good man. >> One of the things that you mentioned >> One of the things that you mentioned there was somebody else's emotions not there was somebody else's emotions not there was somebody else's emotions not permeating you, permeating you, permeating you, >> not not being absorbed by you. You're >> not not being absorbed by you. You're >> not not being absorbed by you. You're holding yourself here. holding yourself here. holding yourself here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Many people that are empathetic, people Many people that are empathetic, people Many people that are empathetic, people that are highly sensitive, people who that are highly sensitive, people who that are highly sensitive, people who seem to absorb the emotions of those seem to absorb the emotions of those seem to absorb the emotions of those around them find that really difficult around them find that really difficult around them find that really difficult >> to keep the you are there and I am here. >> to keep the you are there and I am here. >> to keep the you are there and I am here. >> What's your advice for people to keep >> What's your advice for people to keep >> What's your advice for people to keep that emotional sovereignty when somebody that emotional sovereignty when somebody that emotional sovereignty when somebody else is getting sad else is getting sad else is getting sad >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> with them? >> with them? >> with them? Well, I I' I'd want to first say that Well, I I' I'd want to first say that Well, I I' I'd want to first say that having empathy and being able to feel having empathy and being able to feel having empathy and being able to feel other people's emotions like that that other people's emotions like that that other people's emotions like that that is a superpower. I don't think that's is a superpower. I don't think that's is a superpower. I don't think that's something to decrease. What I don't want something to decrease. What I don't want something to decrease. What I don't want you to do is to feel so much of their you to do is to feel so much of their you to do is to feel so much of their feelings that you don't allow them the feelings that you don't allow them the feelings that you don't allow them the other person to feel their own. In other other person to feel their own. In other other person to feel their own. In other words, I'm afraid of disappointing you words, I'm afraid of disappointing you words, I'm afraid of disappointing you because because because you're going to be so upset. and for you you're going to be so upset. and for you you're going to be so upset. and for you to be upset at me makes me upset and to be upset at me makes me upset and to be upset at me makes me upset and that's going to get into my system and I that's going to get into my system and I that's going to get into my system and I can't possibly share and do that because can't possibly share and do that because can't possibly share and do that because they're going to be disappointed in me they're going to be disappointed in me they're going to be disappointed in me and I can't take them being disappointed and I can't take them being disappointed and I can't take them being disappointed at me. at me. at me. That's more of the the fear there. But That's more of the the fear there. But That's more of the the fear there. But for somebody who goes, I feel a lot of for somebody who goes, I feel a lot of for somebody who goes, I feel a lot of feelings and you can feel yours. It's feelings and you can feel yours. It's feelings and you can feel yours. It's don't pick up what any nobody asks you don't pick up what any nobody asks you don't pick up what any nobody asks you to carry. Like don't don't start to feel to carry. Like don't don't start to feel to carry. Like don't don't start to feel the weight and burden of somebody else's the weight and burden of somebody else's the weight and burden of somebody else's feelings. Like for example, you might feelings. Like for example, you might feelings. Like for example, you might have I don't know, this could be a silly have I don't know, this could be a silly have I don't know, this could be a silly example. example. example. You have your in-laws coming into town. You have your in-laws coming into town. You have your in-laws coming into town. You don't really want them to stay at You don't really want them to stay at You don't really want them to stay at your house, right? How do you how do you your house, right? How do you how do you your house, right? How do you how do you do that? And you start to feel like, do that? And you start to feel like, do that? And you start to feel like, "Oh, well, I'm going to have to I I need "Oh, well, I'm going to have to I I need "Oh, well, I'm going to have to I I need to they're going to be so upset and to they're going to be so upset and to they're going to be so upset and where they're it's going to cause such a where they're it's going to cause such a where they're it's going to cause such a a thing." Well, if you also understand a thing." Well, if you also understand a thing." Well, if you also understand that you have agency and they get to that you have agency and they get to that you have agency and they get to choose what to do with those feelings, choose what to do with those feelings, choose what to do with those feelings, you're going to come out of a much you're going to come out of a much you're going to come out of a much healthier place. And I think a lot of healthier place. And I think a lot of healthier place. And I think a lot of times we don't give the other person the times we don't give the other person the times we don't give the other person the choice of what to do with their choice of what to do with their choice of what to do with their feelings. We have to we want to fix it feelings. We have to we want to fix it feelings. We have to we want to fix it all. We want to tell them what to do all. We want to tell them what to do all. We want to tell them what to do with it. So, how would you navigate that with it. So, how would you navigate that with it. So, how would you navigate that situation? What would you say? If I were situation? What would you say? If I were situation? What would you say? If I were going to going to going to if somebody like my in-laws or something if somebody like my in-laws or something if somebody like my in-laws or something were coming in, um I would simply say I were coming in, um I would simply say I were coming in, um I would simply say I need beginning with this the phrase I need beginning with this the phrase I need beginning with this the phrase I need. need. need. I need to make sure that here uh in this I need to make sure that here uh in this I need to make sure that here uh in this holiday season or whatever that we're holiday season or whatever that we're holiday season or whatever that we're prioritizing a lot of slowing things prioritizing a lot of slowing things prioritizing a lot of slowing things down and trying to keep things quieter down and trying to keep things quieter down and trying to keep things quieter in the house. and I'm going to need in the house. and I'm going to need in the house. and I'm going to need y'all to find maybe I found another y'all to find maybe I found another y'all to find maybe I found another hotel that you can go enjoy that instead hotel that you can go enjoy that instead hotel that you can go enjoy that instead of having of having of having >> Yeah, exactly. Um, a lot of the times >> Yeah, exactly. Um, a lot of the times >> Yeah, exactly. Um, a lot of the times you we fall into the habit of people you we fall into the habit of people you we fall into the habit of people pleasing, pleasing, pleasing, >> you know, which I I think is people >> you know, which I I think is people >> you know, which I I think is people pleasing to me is not a bad thing. It's pleasing to me is not a bad thing. It's pleasing to me is not a bad thing. It's just you need to make sure that you're just you need to make sure that you're just you need to make sure that you're one of them. You know, you need to be one of them. You know, you need to be one of them. You know, you need to be able to also do what's acting in able to also do what's acting in able to also do what's acting in alignment with what you're wanting. In other news, I've been in the gym for In other news, I've been in the gym for nearly two decades now, and it wasn't nearly two decades now, and it wasn't nearly two decades now, and it wasn't until the past few years that I had the until the past few years that I had the until the past few years that I had the best training run of my entire life. And best training run of my entire life. And best training run of my entire life. And a huge part of that was the RP Strength a huge part of that was the RP Strength a huge part of that was the RP Strength app. Actual scientists built this thing app. Actual scientists built this thing app. Actual scientists built this thing around one obsession, having a around one obsession, having a around one obsession, having a sciencebacked path to maximizing muscle sciencebacked path to maximizing muscle sciencebacked path to maximizing muscle gain. It tells you how many sets, how gain. It tells you how many sets, how gain. It tells you how many sets, how many reps, the amount of weight that you many reps, the amount of weight that you many reps, the amount of weight that you need to use. So, all you have to do is need to use. So, all you have to do is need to use. So, all you have to do is show up and do the thing. It adjusts show up and do the thing. It adjusts show up and do the thing. It adjusts automatically every week based on how automatically every week based on how automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing. And there you're actually progressing. And there you're actually progressing. And there are over 45 pre-made training programs are over 45 pre-made training programs are over 45 pre-made training programs and more than 250 technique videos built and more than 250 technique videos built and more than 250 technique videos built in. So, you're not just lifting, you're in. So, you're not just lifting, you're in. So, you're not just lifting, you're lifting optimally to get the most out of lifting optimally to get the most out of lifting optimally to get the most out of your workouts. A lot of the time, I have your workouts. A lot of the time, I have your workouts. A lot of the time, I have less than an hour to be in the gym. And less than an hour to be in the gym. And less than an hour to be in the gym. And what I love about the RP app is that it what I love about the RP app is that it what I love about the RP app is that it takes that into account and adjusts my takes that into account and adjusts my takes that into account and adjusts my workout on the fly. So, I know that I'm workout on the fly. So, I know that I'm workout on the fly. So, I know that I'm going to maximize how much time I've got going to maximize how much time I've got going to maximize how much time I've got available. For me, following a proper available. For me, following a proper available. For me, following a proper evidence-based plan has made a huge evidence-based plan has made a huge evidence-based plan has made a huge difference. And if you're serious about difference. And if you're serious about difference. And if you're serious about training and the gains that you want to training and the gains that you want to training and the gains that you want to make, I'm pretty sure that it'll do the make, I'm pretty sure that it'll do the make, I'm pretty sure that it'll do the same for you. Right now, you can follow same for you. Right now, you can follow same for you. Right now, you can follow the exact same training plan that I use. the exact same training plan that I use. the exact same training plan that I use. And get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy And get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy And get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the link in the app by going to the link in the app by going to the link in the description below or heading to description below or heading to description below or heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom rpstrength.com/modernwisdom rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom a and using the code modernwisdom a and using the code modernwisdom a checkout. That's checkout. That's checkout. That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom rpstrength.com/modernwisdom rpstrength.com/modernwisdom of modernwisdom a checkout. I had this of modernwisdom a checkout. I had this of modernwisdom a checkout. I had this essay that you've kicked the tripwires essay that you've kicked the tripwires essay that you've kicked the tripwires of about 10 times so far today. So, I'm of about 10 times so far today. So, I'm of about 10 times so far today. So, I'm going to read you a little bit of this. going to read you a little bit of this. going to read you a little bit of this. I really thought it might be I really thought it might be I really thought it might be interesting. I called it the shame of interesting. I called it the shame of interesting. I called it the shame of small fears. small fears. small fears. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Imagine explaining modern fear to a >> Imagine explaining modern fear to a >> Imagine explaining modern fear to a caveman. You see, Grrook, people today caveman. You see, Grrook, people today caveman. You see, Grrook, people today get terrified when they have to send a get terrified when they have to send a get terrified when they have to send a message. Gruck blinks. Message carved on message. Gruck blinks. Message carved on message. Gruck blinks. Message carved on stone. No, but it's sentence on a stone. No, but it's sentence on a stone. No, but it's sentence on a glowing triangle. Enemy tribe sea glowing triangle. Enemy tribe sea glowing triangle. Enemy tribe sea message. No. Saber-tooth tiger smell message. No. Saber-tooth tiger smell message. No. Saber-tooth tiger smell message. message. message. No. Then why fear? Well, because the No. Then why fear? Well, because the No. Then why fear? Well, because the other person might think badly of me. other person might think badly of me. other person might think badly of me. Gruck cries, laughing. And yet, that's Gruck cries, laughing. And yet, that's Gruck cries, laughing. And yet, that's the whole point. We inherited a nervous the whole point. We inherited a nervous the whole point. We inherited a nervous system calibrated for lions, and we're system calibrated for lions, and we're system calibrated for lions, and we're using it to navigate awkward using it to navigate awkward using it to navigate awkward conversations and underwhelming careers. conversations and underwhelming careers. conversations and underwhelming careers. Evolution never updated the software. It Evolution never updated the software. It Evolution never updated the software. It just repurposed it. Your ancestors just repurposed it. Your ancestors just repurposed it. Your ancestors needed courage to keep their bodies needed courage to keep their bodies needed courage to keep their bodies alive. You need courage to keep your alive. You need courage to keep your alive. You need courage to keep your identity intact. It's almost comic when identity intact. It's almost comic when identity intact. It's almost comic when you zoom out. The same species that once you zoom out. The same species that once you zoom out. The same species that once stared down hungry predators now breaks stared down hungry predators now breaks stared down hungry predators now breaks into a sweat trying to say something into a sweat trying to say something into a sweat trying to say something needs to change. But it's not because needs to change. But it's not because needs to change. But it's not because we've become pathetic. It's because the we've become pathetic. It's because the we've become pathetic. It's because the monsters changed shape. Old dangers monsters changed shape. Old dangers monsters changed shape. Old dangers could kill your body. The new ones could kill your body. The new ones could kill your body. The new ones threaten your belonging. Your whole threaten your belonging. Your whole threaten your belonging. Your whole biology gears up for exile from the biology gears up for exile from the biology gears up for exile from the village that now only exists as a group village that now only exists as a group village that now only exists as a group chat. Your body still thinks you'll die chat. Your body still thinks you'll die chat. Your body still thinks you'll die alone in the wilderness if you tell the alone in the wilderness if you tell the alone in the wilderness if you tell the truth. It's the residue of a limbic truth. It's the residue of a limbic truth. It's the residue of a limbic system designed for a world that no system designed for a world that no system designed for a world that no longer exists. longer exists. longer exists. >> That seems to be it's not about the >> That seems to be it's not about the >> That seems to be it's not about the fear, it's about the shame in your fear. fear, it's about the shame in your fear. fear, it's about the shame in your fear. A lot of the time I think people realize A lot of the time I think people realize A lot of the time I think people realize >> I I am the progeny of people who >> I I am the progeny of people who >> I I am the progeny of people who survived ice ages. survived ice ages. survived ice ages. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. And I'm getting worried about having to And I'm getting worried about having to And I'm getting worried about having to tell this person that they crossed the tell this person that they crossed the tell this person that they crossed the line with me or having to enforce a line with me or having to enforce a line with me or having to enforce a boundary. boundary. boundary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Hey, >> Hey, >> Hey, I I've had a long year. I'm stressed. I I've had a long year. I'm stressed. I I've had a long year. I'm stressed. And And And >> I love your mother, but she's a lot. >> I love your mother, but she's a lot. >> I love your mother, but she's a lot. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> And and and so her house is really great >> And and and so her house is really great >> And and and so her house is really great this time of year. this time of year. this time of year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I got a discount. Okay. I go. >> And I got a discount. Okay. I go. >> And I got a discount. Okay. I go. >> Uh but the >> Uh but the >> Uh but the >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it really is the case. It's like um the >> it really is the case. It's like um the >> it really is the case. It's like um the sensitivity on a system. It's the same sensitivity on a system. It's the same sensitivity on a system. It's the same reason that we have gyms. We have gyms reason that we have gyms. We have gyms reason that we have gyms. We have gyms because we have removed the need to pick because we have removed the need to pick because we have removed the need to pick up heavy objects from our normal daily up heavy objects from our normal daily up heavy objects from our normal daily life, life, life, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So, we have to artificially create this >> So, we have to artificially create this >> So, we have to artificially create this thing. And if it wasn't for the gym, thing. And if it wasn't for the gym, thing. And if it wasn't for the gym, everybody would be flabby messes, right? everybody would be flabby messes, right? everybody would be flabby messes, right? And purposeful physical training because And purposeful physical training because And purposeful physical training because the whole uh stress on our system, the the whole uh stress on our system, the the whole uh stress on our system, the whole home meis has got turned down. whole home meis has got turned down. whole home meis has got turned down. It's kind of the same here too. the It's kind of the same here too. the It's kind of the same here too. the your uh lyic system will attenuate your uh lyic system will attenuate your uh lyic system will attenuate itself to the maximum amount of itself to the maximum amount of itself to the maximum amount of discomfort that you have which means now discomfort that you have which means now discomfort that you have which means now that a hard conversation might be the that a hard conversation might be the that a hard conversation might be the most difficult thing that you do that most difficult thing that you do that most difficult thing that you do that year. year. year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like that one conversation firing that >> Like that one conversation firing that >> Like that one conversation firing that one member of staff might be the mo. So one member of staff might be the mo. So one member of staff might be the mo. So yeah, you're going to feel it. And I yeah, you're going to feel it. And I yeah, you're going to feel it. And I think what I'm trying to get at, what I think what I'm trying to get at, what I think what I'm trying to get at, what I tried to get at with that incredibly tried to get at with that incredibly tried to get at with that incredibly long essay, which I spared you the rest long essay, which I spared you the rest long essay, which I spared you the rest of, is there's a lot of shame that of, is there's a lot of shame that of, is there's a lot of shame that people have around people have around people have around >> this this fear is so small? Why >> this this fear is so small? Why >> this this fear is so small? Why why do I feel like this? You go, well, why do I feel like this? You go, well, why do I feel like this? You go, well, cuz it's still a big deal because yeah, cuz it's still a big deal because yeah, cuz it's still a big deal because yeah, you have you have you have >> a limbic system that was made to avoid >> a limbic system that was made to avoid >> a limbic system that was made to avoid bears and is now worried about your bears and is now worried about your bears and is now worried about your belonging. Yeah, I think most people they don't have a hard time with they don't have a hard time with fighting. They have a hard time being fighting. They have a hard time being fighting. They have a hard time being honest. honest. honest. >> And it's funny how honesty can sometimes >> And it's funny how honesty can sometimes >> And it's funny how honesty can sometimes be the hardest thing that that you're be the hardest thing that that you're be the hardest thing that that you're going to do because you're laying bare going to do because you're laying bare going to do because you're laying bare your wants, your needs, whatever it is your wants, your needs, whatever it is your wants, your needs, whatever it is for your relationship, for your for your relationship, for your for your relationship, for your business, for the home, for your business, for the home, for your business, for the home, for your friends, whatever. And it's the same the friends, whatever. And it's the same the friends, whatever. And it's the same the same exact thing as what the essay says. same exact thing as what the essay says. same exact thing as what the essay says. Like I I may not throw a punch, but I'm Like I I may not throw a punch, but I'm Like I I may not throw a punch, but I'm gonna throw a word that's gonna hurt. gonna throw a word that's gonna hurt. gonna throw a word that's gonna hurt. Like I'm not gonna pick up a rock and Like I'm not gonna pick up a rock and Like I'm not gonna pick up a rock and throw it, but I'm going to want a word throw it, but I'm going to want a word throw it, but I'm going to want a word to cut. You know, I'm going to want I my to cut. You know, I'm going to want I my to cut. You know, I'm going to want I my words can either hurt you or heal you. words can either hurt you or heal you. words can either hurt you or heal you. And if I self-improve everything about And if I self-improve everything about And if I self-improve everything about me, but I don't improve what comes out me, but I don't improve what comes out me, but I don't improve what comes out of my mouth, that's that's a Formula 1 of my mouth, that's that's a Formula 1 of my mouth, that's that's a Formula 1 car without a steering wheel. like it car without a steering wheel. like it car without a steering wheel. like it looks great, that's awesome, but where looks great, that's awesome, but where looks great, that's awesome, but where where you going to go with it? And so I where you going to go with it? And so I where you going to go with it? And so I think if you don't apply the same type think if you don't apply the same type think if you don't apply the same type of mindset of improving your body as you of mindset of improving your body as you of mindset of improving your body as you do the words when we talk about do the words when we talk about do the words when we talk about emotional vocabulary when we talk about emotional vocabulary when we talk about emotional vocabulary when we talk about actually working through how to have actually working through how to have actually working through how to have conversations and being honest being conversations and being honest being conversations and being honest being dare I say vulnerable with things. dare I say vulnerable with things. dare I say vulnerable with things. There's a lot of people who it's just There's a lot of people who it's just There's a lot of people who it's just they're a empty house but have a great they're a empty house but have a great they're a empty house but have a great looking landscape, you know, like you looking landscape, you know, like you looking landscape, you know, like you just can't you you have to understand just can't you you have to understand just can't you you have to understand that that that the conversation like you said like the conversation like you said like the conversation like you said like you're going to have all year long, you're going to have all year long, you're going to have all year long, >> those are much harder and take a lot >> those are much harder and take a lot >> those are much harder and take a lot more courage than anything you can do at more courage than anything you can do at more courage than anything you can do at the gym. I agree. I agree. And I think a the gym. I agree. I agree. And I think a the gym. I agree. I agree. And I think a lot of the time people are going there lot of the time people are going there lot of the time people are going there precisely for that reason. Uh people precisely for that reason. Uh people precisely for that reason. Uh people will spend will spend will spend years in misery to avoid a few minutes years in misery to avoid a few minutes years in misery to avoid a few minutes of pain. of pain. of pain. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They say that the They say that the They say that the the the the like the conversation you're avoiding is like the conversation you're avoiding is like the conversation you're avoiding is the result you're choosing. the result you're choosing. the result you're choosing. >> Like if you if you if you choose not to >> Like if you if you if you choose not to >> Like if you if you if you choose not to have that conversation, well, you're have that conversation, well, you're have that conversation, well, you're getting that result. Then you're going getting that result. Then you're going getting that result. Then you're going to live with that result. But it doesn't to live with that result. But it doesn't to live with that result. But it doesn't have to be that way. And I think it's in have to be that way. And I think it's in have to be that way. And I think it's in therapy they say like the the therapy they say like the the therapy they say like the the breakthrough you're avoiding is the work breakthrough you're avoiding is the work breakthrough you're avoiding is the work or Yeah. Yeah. the the breakthrough or Yeah. Yeah. the the breakthrough or Yeah. Yeah. the the breakthrough you're needing is in the work you're you're needing is in the work you're you're needing is in the work you're avoiding the being able to get through avoiding the being able to get through avoiding the being able to get through that that conversation. Like you you can that that conversation. Like you you can that that conversation. Like you you can have you can be the fittest person but have you can be the fittest person but have you can be the fittest person but still the same on the inside. It's not still the same on the inside. It's not still the same on the inside. It's not like it's improved anything about what like it's improved anything about what like it's improved anything about what you're gonna how you're gonna have um in you're gonna how you're gonna have um in you're gonna how you're gonna have um in your in your life. And there's no your in your life. And there's no your in your life. And there's no metric. That's the wildest thing. If metric. That's the wildest thing. If metric. That's the wildest thing. If like we're able to watch our HRV and like we're able to watch our HRV and like we're able to watch our HRV and make sure you're in all the zone 2 make sure you're in all the zone 2 make sure you're in all the zone 2 cardio and all the other stuff I got to cardio and all the other stuff I got to cardio and all the other stuff I got to whoop, too. Like to be able to do all whoop, too. Like to be able to do all whoop, too. Like to be able to do all that physical discipline. That's all that physical discipline. That's all that physical discipline. That's all great, but there's no metric on great, but there's no metric on great, but there's no metric on sitting on the couch with your son in sitting on the couch with your son in sitting on the couch with your son in your lap and also having your phone in your lap and also having your phone in your lap and also having your phone in your hand. You know what I mean? or your hand. You know what I mean? or your hand. You know what I mean? or being able to being able to being able to say something really hard to the person say something really hard to the person say something really hard to the person that you love to mend relationships with that you love to mend relationships with that you love to mend relationships with family members you haven't seen in a family members you haven't seen in a family members you haven't seen in a long time. long time. long time. That That That that's a whole lot different metric that that's a whole lot different metric that that's a whole lot different metric that there's just no number for. It's a quiet there's just no number for. It's a quiet there's just no number for. It's a quiet victory or a boring success. victory or a boring success. victory or a boring success. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And yeah, we trade observable metrics >> And yeah, we trade observable metrics >> And yeah, we trade observable metrics for hidden metrics all the time. for hidden metrics all the time. for hidden metrics all the time. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> All the time. You know, you'll take a >> All the time. You know, you'll take a >> All the time. You know, you'll take a job that job that job that pays 10 grand more a year, but is a 45 pays 10 grand more a year, but is a 45 pays 10 grand more a year, but is a 45 minute commute instead of 15. You go, minute commute instead of 15. You go, minute commute instead of 15. You go, okay, well, you can't really see the okay, well, you can't really see the okay, well, you can't really see the commute in quite the same way. What does commute in quite the same way. What does commute in quite the same way. What does that mean? And how much more stressed do that mean? And how much more stressed do that mean? And how much more stressed do you I'm gonna have to miss a couple of you I'm gonna have to miss a couple of you I'm gonna have to miss a couple of evenings with the kids and I'm going to evenings with the kids and I'm going to evenings with the kids and I'm going to spend less time with or you uh move to a spend less time with or you uh move to a spend less time with or you uh move to a new area in a house that's bigger but new area in a house that's bigger but new area in a house that's bigger but the stress of being there puts strain on the stress of being there puts strain on the stress of being there puts strain on your relationship and it means that you your relationship and it means that you your relationship and it means that you go to bed and the texture of your mind's go to bed and the texture of your mind's go to bed and the texture of your mind's a little bit more agitated. a little bit more agitated. a little bit more agitated. >> Yeah. For a decade while you live there. >> Yeah. For a decade while you live there. >> Yeah. For a decade while you live there. >> Hidden metric. Observable metric. Post >> Hidden metric. Observable metric. Post >> Hidden metric. Observable metric. Post code very observable. Peace of mind very code very observable. Peace of mind very code very observable. Peace of mind very hidden. hidden. hidden. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And uh because there's this idea the >> And uh because there's this idea the >> And uh because there's this idea the Magnamara fallacy. Do you know that? So Magnamara fallacy. Do you know that? So Magnamara fallacy. Do you know that? So Robert McNamara during the Vietnam War, Robert McNamara during the Vietnam War, Robert McNamara during the Vietnam War, he was charged with trying to uh make he was charged with trying to uh make he was charged with trying to uh make sure that the war was moving in the sure that the war was moving in the sure that the war was moving in the right direction. And what he was right direction. And what he was right direction. And what he was focusing on were uh enemy combatant focusing on were uh enemy combatant focusing on were uh enemy combatant deaths and US forces deaths. But that deaths and US forces deaths. But that deaths and US forces deaths. But that wasn't what mattered. What mattered was wasn't what mattered. What mattered was wasn't what mattered. What mattered was the sentiment at home. the sentiment at home. the sentiment at home. Issue is very hard to quantify the Issue is very hard to quantify the Issue is very hard to quantify the sentiment at home in the US. And sentiment at home in the US. And sentiment at home in the US. And obviously the Vietnam war was hugely obviously the Vietnam war was hugely obviously the Vietnam war was hugely unpopular domestically in the US. unpopular domestically in the US. unpopular domestically in the US. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And it ends with this line which is we >> And it ends with this line which is we >> And it ends with this line which is we intend to intend to intend to uh uh uh measure what matters but instead we only measure what matters but instead we only measure what matters but instead we only matter what matters to us is only what matter what matters to us is only what matter what matters to us is only what we can measure. we can measure. we can measure. >> Mhm. So this weird inversion of us >> Mhm. So this weird inversion of us >> Mhm. So this weird inversion of us supposedly trying to focus on the supposedly trying to focus on the supposedly trying to focus on the quantifiable and pull it in, but instead quantifiable and pull it in, but instead quantifiable and pull it in, but instead whatever is quantifiable is what what whatever is quantifiable is what what whatever is quantifiable is what what gets pulled in. gets pulled in. gets pulled in. >> Exactly. Yeah. It's it's um I think >> Exactly. Yeah. It's it's um I think >> Exactly. Yeah. It's it's um I think there's a lot of different paradoxes there's a lot of different paradoxes there's a lot of different paradoxes like that in life. Like for me, what like that in life. Like for me, what like that in life. Like for me, what I've learned through this transition I've learned through this transition I've learned through this transition from full-time lawyer being able to talk from full-time lawyer being able to talk from full-time lawyer being able to talk on communication is on communication is on communication is I thought it was what's best for the I thought it was what's best for the I thought it was what's best for the business is what's best for the family. business is what's best for the family. business is what's best for the family. Like I could look at these hard metric Like I could look at these hard metric Like I could look at these hard metric numbers whether it's more money, more numbers whether it's more money, more numbers whether it's more money, more time or whatever the however the time or whatever the however the time or whatever the however the increase increase increase >> more more 10x whatever is best for my >> more more 10x whatever is best for my >> more more 10x whatever is best for my family. when in reality what's best for family. when in reality what's best for family. when in reality what's best for the family is what's best for the the family is what's best for the the family is what's best for the business. business. business. >> What's best for the family is what's >> What's best for the family is what's >> What's best for the family is what's best for the business. And like that's best for the business. And like that's best for the business. And like that's not something I can track but that's not something I can track but that's not something I can track but that's something fallacy. something fallacy. something fallacy. >> Yeah. But that's something I can feel. >> Yeah. But that's something I can feel. >> Yeah. But that's something I can feel. >> Unreal. What about if you're having a >> Unreal. What about if you're having a >> Unreal. What about if you're having a conversation with someone and it feels conversation with someone and it feels conversation with someone and it feels like they're not understanding you. It's like they're not understanding you. It's like they're not understanding you. It's getting frustrating. getting frustrating. getting frustrating. >> Yeah. If you go, "Okay, I'm trying to >> Yeah. If you go, "Okay, I'm trying to >> Yeah. If you go, "Okay, I'm trying to I'm not saying this the right way." and I'm not saying this the right way." and I'm not saying this the right way." and you feel like there's they're butdding you feel like there's they're butdding you feel like there's they're butdding up against that in that time, then I up against that in that time, then I up against that in that time, then I would take it piece by piece. So I would would take it piece by piece. So I would would take it piece by piece. So I would one, are you giving them the takeaway? one, are you giving them the takeaway? one, are you giving them the takeaway? Are you giving the headline at the Are you giving the headline at the Are you giving the headline at the beginning or are you putting it down in beginning or are you putting it down in beginning or are you putting it down in the footnotes? So one is how are you the footnotes? So one is how are you the footnotes? So one is how are you approaching the conversation? How are approaching the conversation? How are approaching the conversation? How are you framing the conversation? Because if you framing the conversation? Because if you framing the conversation? Because if you've buried the lead, like you said, you've buried the lead, like you said, you've buried the lead, like you said, that is typically going to lead into a that is typically going to lead into a that is typically going to lead into a lot of miscommunication. lot of miscommunication. lot of miscommunication. Next, I would question Next, I would question Next, I would question the the biggest like myth in the the biggest like myth in the the biggest like myth in communication is what is sent is what is communication is what is sent is what is communication is what is sent is what is received received received I all the time I can in my own I all the time I can in my own I all the time I can in my own relationship relationship relationship she could say well no you said this I she could say well no you said this I she could say well no you said this I didn't say that you said yes you did no didn't say that you said yes you did no didn't say that you said yes you did no that's not what I said she I wish I had that's not what I said she I wish I had that's not what I said she I wish I had a video camera in here so I could have a video camera in here so I could have a video camera in here so I could have seen exactly how you said that so you seen exactly how you said that so you seen exactly how you said that so you could see and and instead of this could see and and instead of this could see and and instead of this mindset of that's not what I said and mindset of that's not what I said and mindset of that's not what I said and trying to push that miscommunication. trying to push that miscommunication. trying to push that miscommunication. Instead, ask what did you hear? What did Instead, ask what did you hear? What did Instead, ask what did you hear? What did you hear? And if I can ask the question, you hear? And if I can ask the question, you hear? And if I can ask the question, what did you hear? And them to actually what did you hear? And them to actually what did you hear? And them to actually explain what I'm hearing is X, Y, and Z. explain what I'm hearing is X, Y, and Z. explain what I'm hearing is X, Y, and Z. You have to stop. Okay, that right You have to stop. Okay, that right You have to stop. Okay, that right there, there, there, >> that's not at all my intent. I think >> that's not at all my intent. I think >> that's not at all my intent. I think that's where we're going wrong. So, it's that's where we're going wrong. So, it's that's where we're going wrong. So, it's it's the ability to one slow down. Two, it's the ability to one slow down. Two, it's the ability to one slow down. Two, find the actual breaking point. And that find the actual breaking point. And that find the actual breaking point. And that that usually requires a okay, here is that usually requires a okay, here is that usually requires a okay, here is what I'm trying to convey. I'm not what I'm trying to convey. I'm not what I'm trying to convey. I'm not asking you to fix anything. I just need asking you to fix anything. I just need asking you to fix anything. I just need you to hear that this means something to you to hear that this means something to you to hear that this means something to me. me. me. >> And sometimes the other person's like, >> And sometimes the other person's like, >> And sometimes the other person's like, "Oh, okay. So, you want me to do this or "Oh, okay. So, you want me to do this or "Oh, okay. So, you want me to do this or you want me to do this or you want me to you want me to do this or you want me to you want me to do this or you want me to fix this?" Like, "No, no, no, no. I I fix this?" Like, "No, no, no, no. I I fix this?" Like, "No, no, no, no. I I don't. No, I need Let's go back again. don't. No, I need Let's go back again. don't. No, I need Let's go back again. Okay. What are you hearing?" And they Okay. What are you hearing?" And they Okay. What are you hearing?" And they go, "Well, I hear that you need me to go, "Well, I hear that you need me to go, "Well, I hear that you need me to go. I guess I'll never be able to do go. I guess I'll never be able to do go. I guess I'll never be able to do this again. No, no, no. That's not at this again. No, no, no. That's not at this again. No, no, no. That's not at all. Right. Usually when people are all. Right. Usually when people are all. Right. Usually when people are going to extremes or absolutes, the going to extremes or absolutes, the going to extremes or absolutes, the always and nevers is a very clear sign always and nevers is a very clear sign always and nevers is a very clear sign that they're not engaged in the that they're not engaged in the that they're not engaged in the conversation. Instead, they're playing conversation. Instead, they're playing conversation. Instead, they're playing an old script that is well then you just an old script that is well then you just an old script that is well then you just you just want me to do everything you you just want me to do everything you you just want me to do everything you want me to do. Um, and so if you're able want me to do. Um, and so if you're able want me to do. Um, and so if you're able to actually break it down and go piece to actually break it down and go piece to actually break it down and go piece by piece, okay, what did you hear at by piece, okay, what did you hear at by piece, okay, what did you hear at this here? This is this is the this here? This is this is the this here? This is this is the miscommunication. Okay, when I bring miscommunication. Okay, when I bring miscommunication. Okay, when I bring this up, what's coming up for you? Cuz I this up, what's coming up for you? Cuz I this up, what's coming up for you? Cuz I can tell something else is happening. can tell something else is happening. can tell something else is happening. >> Like then you get into a little bit of >> Like then you get into a little bit of >> Like then you get into a little bit of the emotion of it of where where are you the emotion of it of where where are you the emotion of it of where where are you feeling defensive? So when I can voice feeling defensive? So when I can voice feeling defensive? So when I can voice that this other person's voicing, I can that this other person's voicing, I can that this other person's voicing, I can tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation. I I'm not ready for this conversation. I I'm not ready for this conversation. I can tell I'm getting worked up. Like can tell I'm getting worked up. Like can tell I'm getting worked up. Like that's really helpful information. I that's really helpful information. I that's really helpful information. I think I saw some study on if it was like think I saw some study on if it was like think I saw some study on if it was like if somebody's heartbeats over 100 BPM, if somebody's heartbeats over 100 BPM, if somebody's heartbeats over 100 BPM, like it's almost impossible to like like it's almost impossible to like like it's almost impossible to like bring somebody back down very quickly. bring somebody back down very quickly. bring somebody back down very quickly. Like it's not a good time to have a a Like it's not a good time to have a a Like it's not a good time to have a a very Yeah. Yeah. very Yeah. Yeah. very Yeah. Yeah. >> Over 100 BPM your front brain is >> Over 100 BPM your front brain is >> Over 100 BPM your front brain is basically turned off. basically turned off. basically turned off. >> It's gone. Yeah. And and you're you're >> It's gone. Yeah. And and you're you're >> It's gone. Yeah. And and you're you're having to make sure that the other having to make sure that the other having to make sure that the other person's they're going to quickly be person's they're going to quickly be person's they're going to quickly be disregulated in that moment. disregulated in that moment. disregulated in that moment. >> Have you seen Jared? Can you pull that >> Have you seen Jared? Can you pull that >> Have you seen Jared? Can you pull that up? Uh just up? Uh just up? Uh just search uh Reddit search uh Reddit search uh Reddit divorce heart rate on Google and um this divorce heart rate on Google and um this divorce heart rate on Google and um this guy I think he was wearing like a guy I think he was wearing like a guy I think he was wearing like a garment or something and he tracked his garment or something and he tracked his garment or something and he tracked his heart rate through the conversation heart rate through the conversation heart rate through the conversation >> yes >> yes >> yes >> that he had with his wife. And the >> that he had with his wife. And the >> that he had with his wife. And the reason I say it is you're going 100 BPM. reason I say it is you're going 100 BPM. reason I say it is you're going 100 BPM. 100 BPM is heart rate in 5second 100 BPM is heart rate in 5second 100 BPM is heart rate in 5second intervals when wife asks for a divor I intervals when wife asks for a divor I intervals when wife asks for a divor I love how he's put via Fitbit charge too. love how he's put via Fitbit charge too. love how he's put via Fitbit charge too. It's like it's a sponsored post. >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. Resting BPM. So, dude, he's got >> Yeah. Resting BPM. So, dude, he's got >> Yeah. Resting BPM. So, dude, he's got he's got a nice resting BPM. He's down he's got a nice resting BPM. He's down he's got a nice resting BPM. He's down at 60 and he's awake. He's a fit guy. at 60 and he's awake. He's a fit guy. at 60 and he's awake. He's a fit guy. >> He's doing great. >> He's doing great. >> He's doing great. >> Yeah. Well, he's got a Fitbit Charge 2 >> Yeah. Well, he's got a Fitbit Charge 2 >> Yeah. Well, he's got a Fitbit Charge 2 on, so he's obviously been tracking it on, so he's obviously been tracking it on, so he's obviously been tracking it for a while. Can we talk? Can we talk? for a while. Can we talk? Can we talk? for a while. Can we talk? Can we talk? Keeps him quite uh Keeps him quite uh Keeps him quite uh >> he's regulating. So hang on. How what >> he's regulating. So hang on. How what >> he's regulating. So hang on. How what are the interval? That's five minutes. are the interval? That's five minutes. are the interval? That's five minutes. Five minute intervals at the bottom. Five minute intervals at the bottom. Five minute intervals at the bottom. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Is this 1:15 in the [ __ ] morning? I >> Is this 1:15 in the [ __ ] morning? I >> Is this 1:15 in the [ __ ] morning? I think that's 1:15 in the morning. think that's 1:15 in the morning. think that's 1:15 in the morning. >> Unless it's on It's 24. Yeah, >> Unless it's on It's 24. Yeah, >> Unless it's on It's 24. Yeah, >> it should be on military time. >> it should be on military time. >> it should be on military time. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Um and uh Okay. Can we talk? He manages >> Um and uh Okay. Can we talk? He manages >> Um and uh Okay. Can we talk? He manages to hold on to it. to hold on to it. to hold on to it. >> Timing has a lot to do with this. That's >> Timing has a lot to do with this. That's >> Timing has a lot to do with this. That's true. true. true. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's a spike >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's a spike >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's a spike just before. just before. just before. I don't think this is healthy for either I don't think this is healthy for either I don't think this is healthy for either of us. So, she's Can we talk? And a full of us. So, she's Can we talk? And a full of us. So, she's Can we talk? And a full What's that? 6 minutes later, she's What's that? 6 minutes later, she's What's that? 6 minutes later, she's still not given the lead. Yep. still not given the lead. Yep. still not given the lead. Yep. >> Unless he's Well, there's no way that's >> Unless he's Well, there's no way that's >> Unless he's Well, there's no way that's got to be the spike. got to be the spike. got to be the spike. >> Now, look. Yeah. You see the spike right >> Now, look. Yeah. You see the spike right >> Now, look. Yeah. You see the spike right before the dip before I don't think this before the dip before I don't think this before the dip before I don't think this healthy for either of us. Most likely healthy for either of us. Most likely healthy for either of us. Most likely that's like his anxiety. He's realizing that's like his anxiety. He's realizing that's like his anxiety. He's realizing what's going on. I can tell something's what's going on. I can tell something's what's going on. I can tell something's wrong wrong wrong >> cuz he's kept regulated there, right? >> cuz he's kept regulated there, right? >> cuz he's kept regulated there, right? >> Yeah, bro. He He hits 155 160. He's in >> Yeah, bro. He He hits 155 160. He's in >> Yeah, bro. He He hits 155 160. He's in zone three or four depending on how old zone three or four depending on how old zone three or four depending on how old he is. he is. he is. >> And then he has a huge drop and then >> And then he has a huge drop and then >> And then he has a huge drop and then back up again. back up again. back up again. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I wonder if that's just a release of >> I wonder if that's just a release of >> I wonder if that's just a release of >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] He just got the news and now he's >> [ __ ] He just got the news and now he's >> [ __ ] He just got the news and now he's like, "What am I going to do?" like, "What am I going to do?" like, "What am I going to do?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think there is that release of like >> I think there is that release of like >> I think there is that release of like knowledge of now I know knowledge of now I know knowledge of now I know >> cuz I mean maybe he it came out of >> cuz I mean maybe he it came out of >> cuz I mean maybe he it came out of >> but look he comes right back at I mean, >> but look he comes right back at I mean, >> but look he comes right back at I mean, he's right there close to 150 again. And he's right there close to 150 again. And he's right there close to 150 again. And >> how long does the whole thing take? 115 >> how long does the whole thing take? 115 >> how long does the whole thing take? 115 resting BPM, can we talk 120? resting BPM, can we talk 120? resting BPM, can we talk 120? >> 20 minutes, no, dude. 20 20 minutes. >> 20 minutes, no, dude. 20 20 minutes. >> 20 minutes, no, dude. 20 20 minutes. They're in and out and he's off on a They're in and out and he's off on a They're in and out and he's off on a walk. So, yeah. Yeah. Anybody that walk. So, yeah. Yeah. Anybody that walk. So, yeah. Yeah. Anybody that thinks that 100 BPM is uh is hard to hit thinks that 100 BPM is uh is hard to hit thinks that 100 BPM is uh is hard to hit in a difficult conversation, homeboy in a difficult conversation, homeboy in a difficult conversation, homeboy managed to get 150% of that. managed to get 150% of that. managed to get 150% of that. >> Yep. Went off for a walk. Good. Good. >> Yep. Went off for a walk. Good. Good. >> Yep. Went off for a walk. Good. Good. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. >> It's going to hit last call somewhere >> It's going to hit last call somewhere >> It's going to hit last call somewhere real quick, real quick, real quick, >> dude. Exactly, >> dude. Exactly, >> dude. Exactly, >> dude. I remember the first ever >> dude. I remember the first ever >> dude. I remember the first ever Thanksgiving that I did in uh America. I Thanksgiving that I did in uh America. I Thanksgiving that I did in uh America. I was living at an Airbnb on South was living at an Airbnb on South was living at an Airbnb on South Congress and it's directly opposite the Congress and it's directly opposite the Congress and it's directly opposite the Red Rose, which is Austin's premier Red Rose, which is Austin's premier Red Rose, which is Austin's premier adult establishment. adult establishment. adult establishment. >> And um it was I'd been to I'd been to >> And um it was I'd been to I'd been to >> And um it was I'd been to I'd been to Blair White's house. If you know who Blair White's house. If you know who Blair White's house. If you know who Blair White is, it's a uncomfortably hot Blair White is, it's a uncomfortably hot Blair White is, it's a uncomfortably hot trans influencer. Uh and Lex Friedman trans influencer. Uh and Lex Friedman trans influencer. Uh and Lex Friedman was there with Michael M. It was a very was there with Michael M. It was a very was there with Michael M. It was a very strange Avengers autistic Avengers strange Avengers autistic Avengers strange Avengers autistic Avengers assemble. And then we got back to where assemble. And then we got back to where assemble. And then we got back to where I was staying at the Airbnb. I was staying at the Airbnb. I was staying at the Airbnb. This is 10:00 p.m. 10:30 p.m. or This is 10:00 p.m. 10:30 p.m. or This is 10:00 p.m. 10:30 p.m. or something on Thanksgiving. And the something on Thanksgiving. And the something on Thanksgiving. And the entire car park was full. All of the entire car park was full. All of the entire car park was full. All of the street outside was completely full. It street outside was completely full. It street outside was completely full. It was like it must have been standing room was like it must have been standing room was like it must have been standing room only in the strip club. And I remember only in the strip club. And I remember only in the strip club. And I remember thinking, thinking, thinking, how bad's your Thanksgiving had to be how bad's your Thanksgiving had to be how bad's your Thanksgiving had to be >> at 10 p.m. to go, that's it. I'm sick. >> at 10 p.m. to go, that's it. I'm sick. >> at 10 p.m. to go, that's it. I'm sick. Are your parents I that I I cannot Are your parents I that I I cannot Are your parents I that I I cannot >> any longer be I'm going I'm I'm going to >> any longer be I'm going I'm I'm going to >> any longer be I'm going I'm I'm going to the Red Rose again. Are you the Red Rose again. Are you the Red Rose again. Are you >> off to see Crystal? Oh, I hope she'll >> off to see Crystal? Oh, I hope she'll >> off to see Crystal? Oh, I hope she'll cook your [ __ ] dinner and wash your cook your [ __ ] dinner and wash your cook your [ __ ] dinner and wash your socks. I was like, okay, here we go. But socks. I was like, okay, here we go. But socks. I was like, okay, here we go. But I I just I I just I I just the British mind cannot comprehend what the British mind cannot comprehend what the British mind cannot comprehend what level of freedom Americans have level of freedom Americans have level of freedom Americans have apparently around Thanksgiving, apparently around Thanksgiving, apparently around Thanksgiving, including being able to go to the Red including being able to go to the Red including being able to go to the Red Rose 10 p.m. Rose 10 p.m. Rose 10 p.m. >> Holidays are are hard for people and >> Holidays are are hard for people and >> Holidays are are hard for people and Thanksgiving's hard. Christmas is hard Thanksgiving's hard. Christmas is hard Thanksgiving's hard. Christmas is hard usually because it can be sometimes a usually because it can be sometimes a usually because it can be sometimes a reminder that they're alone. reminder that they're alone. reminder that they're alone. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And um I mean there's no place lonelier >> And um I mean there's no place lonelier >> And um I mean there's no place lonelier >> than this strip club. >> than this strip club. >> than this strip club. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can be surrounded by >> Yeah. Yeah. You can be surrounded by >> Yeah. Yeah. You can be surrounded by people and still feel very alone. Yeah. people and still feel very alone. Yeah. people and still feel very alone. Yeah. And that's why what you're looking for And that's why what you're looking for And that's why what you're looking for some very some very some very illusion of companionship, illusion of companionship, illusion of companionship, >> you know, so they they uh they're >> you know, so they they uh they're >> you know, so they they uh they're they're in pain and they're looking for they're in pain and they're looking for they're in pain and they're looking for some way to find a a salve. some way to find a a salve. some way to find a a salve. How should people respond to an insult How should people respond to an insult How should people respond to an insult with a lot of silence? You say something with a lot of silence? You say something with a lot of silence? You say something ugly to me, I'm going to give it about 5 ugly to me, I'm going to give it about 5 ugly to me, I'm going to give it about 5 to 7 seconds on nothing. to 7 seconds on nothing. to 7 seconds on nothing. meaning I'm going to allow your words as meaning I'm going to allow your words as meaning I'm going to allow your words as if I see them just to fall to the this if I see them just to fall to the this if I see them just to fall to the this table here and give you a moment of like table here and give you a moment of like table here and give you a moment of like you good with that like you still you you good with that like you still you you good with that like you still you still proud of that right there you can still proud of that right there you can still proud of that right there you can take it back if you like but I'm not take it back if you like but I'm not take it back if you like but I'm not taking it and it's that it's that that taking it and it's that it's that that taking it and it's that it's that that mindset of I'm not taking it I don't mindset of I'm not taking it I don't mindset of I'm not taking it I don't have to pick it up that's not mine have to pick it up that's not mine have to pick it up that's not mine because we get so used to catching just because we get so used to catching just because we get so used to catching just because somebody threw we feel like we because somebody threw we feel like we because somebody threw we feel like we automatically have to catch it's like automatically have to catch it's like automatically have to catch it's like it's Not it's not tennis. It's not it's Not it's not tennis. It's not it's Not it's not tennis. It's not volleyball. You don't have to hit it volleyball. You don't have to hit it volleyball. You don't have to hit it back over a net. You can just let it be back over a net. You can just let it be back over a net. You can just let it be there. So 5 to 7 seconds of nothing in there. So 5 to 7 seconds of nothing in there. So 5 to 7 seconds of nothing in that silence. Two, what I like to do is that silence. Two, what I like to do is that silence. Two, what I like to do is usually ask them to repeat it. usually ask them to repeat it. usually ask them to repeat it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's I I usually will say, "I Yeah. That's I I usually will say, "I Yeah. That's I I usually will say, "I need you to I need you to say that need you to I need you to say that need you to I need you to say that again." I've yet to have anybody who could do it I've yet to have anybody who could do it because it's like they they they don't because it's like they they they don't because it's like they they they don't want to show want to show want to show they're ugly. They don't want that they're ugly. They don't want that they're ugly. They don't want that highlighted. They don't they know what highlighted. They don't they know what highlighted. They don't they know what they just said. And now what they were they just said. And now what they were they just said. And now what they were expecting was that hit of dopamine of me expecting was that hit of dopamine of me expecting was that hit of dopamine of me giving it right back to them and feeling giving it right back to them and feeling giving it right back to them and feeling that sense of control. that sense of control. that sense of control. >> I've now put a big spotlight on their >> I've now put a big spotlight on their >> I've now put a big spotlight on their behavior and then it's just it's not fun behavior and then it's just it's not fun behavior and then it's just it's not fun at that point. They're like, "Ah, I got at that point. They're like, "Ah, I got at that point. They're like, "Ah, I got to get out of here." Like, that's was to get out of here." Like, that's was to get out of here." Like, that's was that that wasn't the hit that I was that that wasn't the hit that I was that that wasn't the hit that I was expecting. And when I say, "I need you expecting. And when I say, "I need you expecting. And when I say, "I need you to repeat that," or, "I need you to say to repeat that," or, "I need you to say to repeat that," or, "I need you to say that again," that again," that again," they're going to have to remember their they're going to have to remember their they're going to have to remember their words and regurgitate them. words and regurgitate them. words and regurgitate them. >> And that usually it's people don't like >> And that usually it's people don't like >> And that usually it's people don't like to extend past this feeling of being to extend past this feeling of being to extend past this feeling of being reasonable. Now, I know people will go, reasonable. Now, I know people will go, reasonable. Now, I know people will go, "Oh, I know lots of people are "Oh, I know lots of people are "Oh, I know lots of people are unreasonable." Listen, I have deposed unreasonable." Listen, I have deposed unreasonable." Listen, I have deposed probably thousands of people. I've seen probably thousands of people. I've seen probably thousands of people. I've seen lots of liars and manipulators. They lots of liars and manipulators. They lots of liars and manipulators. They never want to come across as never want to come across as never want to come across as unreasonable. Yeah. Yeah. People who are unreasonable. Yeah. Yeah. People who are unreasonable. Yeah. Yeah. People who are like manipulating you, they're not like manipulating you, they're not like manipulating you, they're not afraid of afraid of afraid of of of of anger. They're afraid of calm. And anger. They're afraid of calm. And anger. They're afraid of calm. And whenever I can show you that I'm not whenever I can show you that I'm not whenever I can show you that I'm not rising and going, "How dare you?" Like rising and going, "How dare you?" Like rising and going, "How dare you?" Like getting this who do you think you are getting this who do you think you are getting this who do you think you are kind of bow up. Um, it's almost more kind of bow up. Um, it's almost more kind of bow up. Um, it's almost more scary to them if you I need you to say scary to them if you I need you to say scary to them if you I need you to say that again. Now, most of the time what that again. Now, most of the time what that again. Now, most of the time what they do is they try and like Well, I they do is they try and like Well, I they do is they try and like Well, I mean what I I mean I mean and they try mean what I I mean I mean and they try mean what I I mean I mean and they try to like justify it. Exactly. Uh and try to like justify it. Exactly. Uh and try to like justify it. Exactly. Uh and try and adjust in some way or I guess they and adjust in some way or I guess they and adjust in some way or I guess they could double down. If they do double could double down. If they do double could double down. If they do double down and repeat it, then you get to say down and repeat it, then you get to say down and repeat it, then you get to say I thought so. Thanks. I thought so. Thanks. I thought so. Thanks. >> Like just let it go. Because at that >> Like just let it go. Because at that >> Like just let it go. Because at that point you're still just leaving them. point you're still just leaving them. point you're still just leaving them. They're going to remember what they said They're going to remember what they said They're going to remember what they said and you're not going to be the one to and you're not going to be the one to and you're not going to be the one to remember it at all. So, it's dad. remember it at all. So, it's dad. remember it at all. So, it's dad. Another that I like to ask is it's this. Another that I like to ask is it's this. Another that I like to ask is it's this. Did you mean did you mean for that to Did you mean did you mean for that to Did you mean did you mean for that to sound as insulting as it did? Did you sound as insulting as it did? Did you sound as insulting as it did? Did you mean for that to embarrass me in some mean for that to embarrass me in some mean for that to embarrass me in some way? Did you mean for that to offend me way? Did you mean for that to offend me way? Did you mean for that to offend me or hurt me or belittle me? Or did you or hurt me or belittle me? Or did you or hurt me or belittle me? Or did you did you want me to feel less when you did you want me to feel less when you did you want me to feel less when you said that? Whenever you talk about said that? Whenever you talk about said that? Whenever you talk about intents, the did you mean? Did you intents, the did you mean? Did you intents, the did you mean? Did you intend to? Did you say that in order to, intend to? Did you say that in order to, intend to? Did you say that in order to, it questions the very root of their it questions the very root of their it questions the very root of their heart in that moment of like why did heart in that moment of like why did heart in that moment of like why did they really say that? And they said that they really say that? And they said that they really say that? And they said that to hurt you to hurt you to hurt you >> to to cause that pain. And at the same >> to to cause that pain. And at the same >> to to cause that pain. And at the same time, maybe you just took it the wrong time, maybe you just took it the wrong time, maybe you just took it the wrong way like in text message. Usually, we way like in text message. Usually, we way like in text message. Usually, we have a way of reading everything have a way of reading everything have a way of reading everything negative in a text message. We never negative in a text message. We never negative in a text message. We never read things positive, right? you I I read things positive, right? you I I read things positive, right? you I I could text you, we need to talk and could text you, we need to talk and could text you, we need to talk and nobody gets that and goes like sick. nobody gets that and goes like sick. nobody gets that and goes like sick. Yes, let's go. Let's Chris wants to Yes, let's go. Let's Chris wants to Yes, let's go. Let's Chris wants to talk. Let's let's get after it. Let's talk. Let's let's get after it. Let's talk. Let's let's get after it. Let's go. Uh we always read the negative. And go. Uh we always read the negative. And go. Uh we always read the negative. And so did you mean is also a great way of so did you mean is also a great way of so did you mean is also a great way of double-checking. Did you mean for that double-checking. Did you mean for that double-checking. Did you mean for that to sound like my wife and I if I to sound like my wife and I if I to sound like my wife and I if I sometimes reply really quickly, she'll sometimes reply really quickly, she'll sometimes reply really quickly, she'll say, "Did you mean for that to sound say, "Did you mean for that to sound say, "Did you mean for that to sound short?" No, no, I didn't mean to. I was short?" No, no, I didn't mean to. I was short?" No, no, I didn't mean to. I was just in the middle of pickup or I was at just in the middle of pickup or I was at just in the middle of pickup or I was at a grocery line or whatever. It's a grocery line or whatever. It's a grocery line or whatever. It's >> you're allowing that that benefit of the >> you're allowing that that benefit of the >> you're allowing that that benefit of the doubt for a second. doubt for a second. doubt for a second. >> In both of those situations, >> In both of those situations, >> In both of those situations, >> uh, where it's not ambiguous about >> uh, where it's not ambiguous about >> uh, where it's not ambiguous about whether or not that was a mean message whether or not that was a mean message whether or not that was a mean message or not, or not, or not, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> what you're doing is bringing the >> what you're doing is bringing the >> what you're doing is bringing the person's ugliness person's ugliness person's ugliness to the front. to the front. to the front. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Because Yeah, you're right. >> Because Yeah, you're right. >> Because Yeah, you're right. Even when people say mean things, they Even when people say mean things, they Even when people say mean things, they feel justified in their meanness. feel justified in their meanness. feel justified in their meanness. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You deserved it, >> You deserved it, >> You deserved it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Or >> Or >> Or I'm righteous somehow. I'm righteous somehow. I'm righteous somehow. >> And >> And >> And with enough room for the heat to die with enough room for the heat to die with enough room for the heat to die down a little bit. down a little bit. down a little bit. Three. Three. Three. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Four. Five. Six. [ __ ] Seven. >> Four. Five. Six. [ __ ] Seven. >> Four. Five. Six. [ __ ] Seven. >> It's a long time. >> It's a long time. >> It's a long time. >> Very. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and to >> Very. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and to >> Very. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and to then basically say then basically say then basically say do the thing again but without the heat do the thing again but without the heat do the thing again but without the heat that powered it when you did it the that powered it when you did it the that powered it when you did it the first time like you you've run out of first time like you you've run out of first time like you you've run out of fuel. fuel. fuel. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And you're now going to have to >> And you're now going to have to >> And you're now going to have to >> look at it >> look at it >> look at it >> in a more sterile environment. >> in a more sterile environment. >> in a more sterile environment. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> More plain environment. >> More plain environment. >> More plain environment. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And >> And >> And I'm just going to ask I'm not going to I'm just going to ask I'm not going to I'm just going to ask I'm not going to infer. I'm going to ask whether the infer. I'm going to ask whether the infer. I'm going to ask whether the outcome that happened after you said outcome that happened after you said outcome that happened after you said that thing was what you meant and that that thing was what you meant and that that thing was what you meant and that is you admitting to your own intent is you admitting to your own intent is you admitting to your own intent >> around this. >> around this. >> around this. >> Exactly. It's like you um >> Exactly. It's like you um >> Exactly. It's like you um like imagine having to ask a girl out like imagine having to ask a girl out like imagine having to ask a girl out and she's like, "Well, I didn't hear and she's like, "Well, I didn't hear and she's like, "Well, I didn't hear you. Never mind." Like you don't want to you. Never mind." Like you don't want to you. Never mind." Like you don't want to you don't want to ask it again. It's you don't want to ask it again. It's you don't want to ask it again. It's that feeling of like I already I already that feeling of like I already I already that feeling of like I already I already said it. said it. said it. >> You said you're so hot. >> You said you're so hot. >> You said you're so hot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. That's right. Um, and >> Yeah. Exactly. That's right. Um, and >> Yeah. Exactly. That's right. Um, and then all of a sudden you you realize, then all of a sudden you you realize, then all of a sudden you you realize, no, that that didn't feel good at all. no, that that didn't feel good at all. no, that that didn't feel good at all. And now it's now they just they don't And now it's now they just they don't And now it's now they just they don't want the cheese. They just want out of want the cheese. They just want out of want the cheese. They just want out of the trap. You know, they just get me get the trap. You know, they just get me get the trap. You know, they just get me get me out of here. And they're not they're me out of here. And they're not they're me out of here. And they're not they're not going to want to do that because the not going to want to do that because the not going to want to do that because the making them say it again is just making them say it again is just making them say it again is just it's just revealing they're ugly and it's just revealing they're ugly and it's just revealing they're ugly and darkness hates light. darkness hates light. darkness hates light. >> You know, you were talking about >> You know, you were talking about >> You know, you were talking about inviting someone to What are you inviting someone to What are you inviting someone to What are you hearing? What are you hearing from me? hearing? What are you hearing from me? hearing? What are you hearing from me? What is it? What what did you just hear What is it? What what did you just hear What is it? What what did you just hear me say? me say? me say? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How are you interpreting that? You know, >> How are you interpreting that? You know, >> How are you interpreting that? You know, the idea of a steel man. the idea of a steel man. the idea of a steel man. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Uh and a straw man, right? So, straw man >> Uh and a straw man, right? So, straw man >> Uh and a straw man, right? So, straw man representing the weakest version of representing the weakest version of representing the weakest version of someone's argument. Steelman, me saying, someone's argument. Steelman, me saying, someone's argument. Steelman, me saying, >> "So, >> "So, >> "So, we're in a debate, but what I think we're in a debate, but what I think we're in a debate, but what I think you're trying to say is, and I put you're trying to say is, and I put you're trying to say is, and I put across the best version, the best across the best version, the best across the best version, the best possible version of your argument, possible version of your argument, possible version of your argument, >> that's good. What you're doing with the >> that's good. What you're doing with the >> that's good. What you're doing with the invitation is like a reverse steelman. invitation is like a reverse steelman. invitation is like a reverse steelman. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Or an invited steelman. You're saying, >> Or an invited steelman. You're saying, >> Or an invited steelman. You're saying, "Can you tell me "Can you tell me "Can you tell me >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> what you're hearing me say?" >> what you're hearing me say?" >> what you're hearing me say?" >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And then ah, okay. So, no, not quite. >> And then ah, okay. So, no, not quite. >> And then ah, okay. So, no, not quite. And the same thing with the reason that And the same thing with the reason that And the same thing with the reason that you do the steelman is so I go, "Okay, you do the steelman is so I go, "Okay, you do the steelman is so I go, "Okay, so Jeffson, what what I'm hearing from so Jeffson, what what I'm hearing from so Jeffson, what what I'm hearing from you is this and this and this. Is that you is this and this and this. Is that you is this and this and this. Is that right?" And you go, "Well, actually, no. right?" And you go, "Well, actually, no. right?" And you go, "Well, actually, no. You're just saying, "Hey, come do the You're just saying, "Hey, come do the You're just saying, "Hey, come do the steelman thing for me." Yes. And then if steelman thing for me." Yes. And then if steelman thing for me." Yes. And then if there's anything that's not fully there's anything that's not fully there's anything that's not fully understood, and you're doing the same understood, and you're doing the same understood, and you're doing the same thing with the insult to a degree, it's thing with the insult to a degree, it's thing with the insult to a degree, it's like inviting this person to almost like inviting this person to almost like inviting this person to almost steal the the nuclear warhead that they steal the the nuclear warhead that they steal the the nuclear warhead that they just dropped on you, just dropped on you, just dropped on you, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You >> You >> You probably more like a septic tank than a probably more like a septic tank than a probably more like a septic tank than a nuclear warhead. Uh you know, nuclear warhead. Uh you know, nuclear warhead. Uh you know, >> exactly. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> You know this big puddle of [ __ ] that's >> You know this big puddle of [ __ ] that's >> You know this big puddle of [ __ ] that's in front of us? in front of us? in front of us? >> Yeah. Is that [ __ ] or is it soup? >> Yeah. Is that [ __ ] or is it soup? >> Yeah. Is that [ __ ] or is it soup? >> Cuz I can't to me it looks and smells a >> Cuz I can't to me it looks and smells a >> Cuz I can't to me it looks and smells a lot like [ __ ] lot like [ __ ] lot like [ __ ] >> And uh just making sure that we're not >> And uh just making sure that we're not >> And uh just making sure that we're not confu I'm not confusing what this is. confu I'm not confusing what this is. confu I'm not confusing what this is. >> Yeah, there's a lot of there's actually >> Yeah, there's a lot of there's actually >> Yeah, there's a lot of there's actually this like hidden power around tell me this like hidden power around tell me this like hidden power around tell me what I'm missing. Tell me what I like what I'm missing. Tell me what I like what I'm missing. Tell me what I like I'm missing something here. Something I'm missing something here. Something I'm missing something here. Something else is going on else is going on else is going on >> and I need you to tell me what I'm >> and I need you to tell me what I'm >> and I need you to tell me what I'm missing. So, lots of times I'll be in a missing. So, lots of times I'll be in a missing. So, lots of times I'll be in a deposition and I'll have somebody who is deposition and I'll have somebody who is deposition and I'll have somebody who is I know I've caught them in a lie. I know I've caught them in a lie. I know I've caught them in a lie. There's lots of people lie under oath There's lots of people lie under oath There's lots of people lie under oath all the time and they have no problem all the time and they have no problem all the time and they have no problem with it. And because I know cuz I have with it. And because I know cuz I have with it. And because I know cuz I have the evidence right here and they just the evidence right here and they just the evidence right here and they just don't know that I have it. don't know that I have it. don't know that I have it. And so it's often the people who it's And so it's often the people who it's And so it's often the people who it's most blatant like they it's just an easy most blatant like they it's just an easy most blatant like they it's just an easy they didn't have to lie about it like they didn't have to lie about it like they didn't have to lie about it like they could have just fallen on the sword they could have just fallen on the sword they could have just fallen on the sword but they're they're so contradictory but they're they're so contradictory but they're they're so contradictory that they can't possibly not. So, if that they can't possibly not. So, if that they can't possibly not. So, if it's like if I were to tell you, it's like if I were to tell you, it's like if I were to tell you, I feel like you're really upset, and I feel like you're really upset, and I feel like you're really upset, and they go, I'm not upset. I'm just like, they go, I'm not upset. I'm just like, they go, I'm not upset. I'm just like, it doesn't matter what emotion I said, it doesn't matter what emotion I said, it doesn't matter what emotion I said, they're going to always tell me, I know, they're going to always tell me, I know, they're going to always tell me, I know, it's not that I'm I'm I'm okay, it's it's not that I'm I'm I'm okay, it's it's not that I'm I'm I'm okay, it's just I'm it doesn't matter what it is, just I'm it doesn't matter what it is, just I'm it doesn't matter what it is, they're always going to contradict that. they're always going to contradict that. they're always going to contradict that. And so, when I know I'm up against that And so, when I know I'm up against that And so, when I know I'm up against that kind of person, kind of person, kind of person, you have to do this you have to do this you have to do this searching with like where questions searching with like where questions searching with like where questions matter a whole lot more than statements. matter a whole lot more than statements. matter a whole lot more than statements. Meaning, if I'm going to ask a question Meaning, if I'm going to ask a question Meaning, if I'm going to ask a question that is more open-ended, that is more open-ended, that is more open-ended, I'm getting I'm signaling to this aspect I'm getting I'm signaling to this aspect I'm getting I'm signaling to this aspect of what am I missing here? I hear you of what am I missing here? I hear you of what am I missing here? I hear you telling me this. telling me this. telling me this. I'm missing where you're getting to I'm missing where you're getting to I'm missing where you're getting to that. Same way with the insult. that. Same way with the insult. that. Same way with the insult. What am I? You say that I'm, you know, What am I? You say that I'm, you know, What am I? You say that I'm, you know, the whatever the worst thing. I need you the whatever the worst thing. I need you the whatever the worst thing. I need you to say that again because something's to say that again because something's to say that again because something's missing because it's not hitting me the missing because it's not hitting me the missing because it's not hitting me the same way you want it to hit me. same way you want it to hit me. same way you want it to hit me. >> So where is that coming from? And and >> So where is that coming from? And and >> So where is that coming from? And and and that right there is the the wamp and that right there is the the wamp and that right there is the the wamp feeling, you know, the blanket wet feeling, you know, the blanket wet feeling, you know, the blanket wet blanket of Exactly. sad emoji for them blanket of Exactly. sad emoji for them blanket of Exactly. sad emoji for them of like I've it didn't it didn't work. of like I've it didn't it didn't work. of like I've it didn't it didn't work. What was missing was they were actually What was missing was they were actually What was missing was they were actually intending to cause pain because they're intending to cause pain because they're intending to cause pain because they're in pain and it felt better for them to in pain and it felt better for them to in pain and it felt better for them to cause you pain than actually deal with cause you pain than actually deal with cause you pain than actually deal with their own emotions. It's a much more their own emotions. It's a much more their own emotions. It's a much more sophisticated approach than sophisticated approach than sophisticated approach than even trying to lean into empathy even trying to lean into empathy even trying to lean into empathy immediately if you'd say it sounds like immediately if you'd say it sounds like immediately if you'd say it sounds like that. It sounds like you're really upset that. It sounds like you're really upset that. It sounds like you're really upset when someone says something mean cuz when someone says something mean cuz when someone says something mean cuz that feels like an elevated kind of that feels like an elevated kind of that feels like an elevated kind of communication. Yeah. It could be communication. Yeah. It could be communication. Yeah. It could be sarcastic. Yeah. But yeah, but even if sarcastic. Yeah. But yeah, but even if sarcastic. Yeah. But yeah, but even if you say it, you know, um genuinely go you say it, you know, um genuinely go you say it, you know, um genuinely go feels like you're upset when you're feels like you're upset when you're feels like you're upset when you're doing that. It's also like I doing that. It's also like I doing that. It's also like I you're putting a kind of interpretation you're putting a kind of interpretation you're putting a kind of interpretation on this person's language as opposed to on this person's language as opposed to on this person's language as opposed to just allowing them to clarify it for just allowing them to clarify it for just allowing them to clarify it for you. And I I keep on having this image you. And I I keep on having this image you. And I I keep on having this image in my head of giving somebody a ton of in my head of giving somebody a ton of in my head of giving somebody a ton of rope. rope. rope. >> You're just giving them as much rope as >> You're just giving them as much rope as >> You're just giving them as much rope as they want and they can choose to climb they want and they can choose to climb they want and they can choose to climb up it and get out or they can [ __ ] up it and get out or they can [ __ ] up it and get out or they can [ __ ] hang themselves with it. hang themselves with it. hang themselves with it. >> Yeah. I I see this a lot in depositions >> Yeah. I I see this a lot in depositions >> Yeah. I I see this a lot in depositions or cross-examination where I know that or cross-examination where I know that or cross-examination where I know that they're lying. I know they are. And I they're lying. I know they are. And I they're lying. I know they are. And I could just say, "You're lying." You could just say, "You're lying." You could just say, "You're lying." You think that's going to get them to admit think that's going to get them to admit think that's going to get them to admit it? No, never. They're gonna they're it? No, never. They're gonna they're it? No, never. They're gonna they're gonna double down. How dare you accuse gonna double down. How dare you accuse gonna double down. How dare you accuse me of whatever? Cuz they don't. But if me of whatever? Cuz they don't. But if me of whatever? Cuz they don't. But if they tell the lie and I slow it down and they tell the lie and I slow it down and they tell the lie and I slow it down and I open a folder and I look and I close I open a folder and I look and I close I open a folder and I look and I close and I give that five to seven seconds and I give that five to seven seconds and I give that five to seven seconds and I say, and I say, and I say, "I need you to tell me that again." I "I need you to tell me that again." I "I need you to tell me that again." I mean, they just go, "Uh, uh, I mean, I mean, they just go, "Uh, uh, I mean, I mean, they just go, "Uh, uh, I mean, I mean, why would you why would you think mean, why would you why would you think mean, why would you why would you think I would do this?" Like, they start I would do this?" Like, they start I would do this?" Like, they start questioning things that don't really Why questioning things that don't really Why questioning things that don't really Why you think that I would do something like you think that I would do something like you think that I would do something like that? What What do you think? They're that? What What do you think? They're that? What What do you think? They're asking you to like solve the solve the asking you to like solve the solve the asking you to like solve the solve the problem. problem. problem. >> Get done that. Give me a suit. You come >> Get done that. Give me a suit. You come >> Get done that. Give me a suit. You come up here. up here. up here. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, it's >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, it's >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, it's um it's um it's um it's liars, manipulators, liars, manipulators, liars, manipulators, they they want the anger, but they fear they they want the anger, but they fear they they want the anger, but they fear the calm. And so when you're able to in the calm. And so when you're able to in the calm. And so when you're able to in those moments of somebody doing those moments of somebody doing those moments of somebody doing something offensive something offensive something offensive >> to show a calm, controlled >> to show a calm, controlled >> to show a calm, controlled approach, that's what they don't like. approach, that's what they don't like. approach, that's what they don't like. Like imagine you saying something that's Like imagine you saying something that's Like imagine you saying something that's a lie and I'm saying, "Yeah, I'm going to need to come back to "Yeah, I'm going to need to come back to that later." Like it's the worst because that later." Like it's the worst because that later." Like it's the worst because they want you to swallow hookline and they want you to swallow hookline and they want you to swallow hookline and sinker. They they like the fast rapid. sinker. They they like the fast rapid. sinker. They they like the fast rapid. They took it. That's also closure for They took it. That's also closure for They took it. That's also closure for sure, right? It's open loops. So much of sure, right? It's open loops. So much of sure, right? It's open loops. So much of this is there's the loops that have been this is there's the loops that have been this is there's the loops that have been left open for small amounts of time or left open for small amounts of time or left open for small amounts of time or for even longer amounts of time. for even longer amounts of time. for even longer amounts of time. >> They're the ones that are things are >> They're the ones that are things are >> They're the ones that are things are going on the insult thing. British going on the insult thing. British going on the insult thing. British people have a trend of pushing and people have a trend of pushing and people have a trend of pushing and pushing and then saying only joking, pushing and then saying only joking, pushing and then saying only joking, mate. It's only a joke. mate. It's only a joke. mate. It's only a joke. >> How do you deal with someone who pushes >> How do you deal with someone who pushes >> How do you deal with someone who pushes you and then retreats to I was just you and then retreats to I was just you and then retreats to I was just joking? joking? joking? >> It depends how well you know them. I >> It depends how well you know them. I >> It depends how well you know them. I think if if for some of these responses think if if for some of these responses think if if for some of these responses like if somebody says I was just joking like if somebody says I was just joking like if somebody says I was just joking I usually like to say then I need you to I usually like to say then I need you to I usually like to say then I need you to be funnier is what I usually say or I'll be funnier is what I usually say or I'll be funnier is what I usually say or I'll say then I need you to find new material say then I need you to find new material say then I need you to find new material you know then we need to re let's you know then we need to re let's you know then we need to re let's workshop that one then a little bit workshop that one then a little bit workshop that one then a little bit >> but if it's something that you feel like >> but if it's something that you feel like >> but if it's something that you feel like they are they are they are maybe you don't know them that well and maybe you don't know them that well and maybe you don't know them that well and they say hey I'm I'm I'm just I'm just they say hey I'm I'm I'm just I'm just they say hey I'm I'm I'm just I'm just joking. joking. joking. I don't let it I don't like it to slide. I don't let it I don't like it to slide. I don't let it I don't like it to slide. Meaning you just go, "Oh, okay. That's Meaning you just go, "Oh, okay. That's Meaning you just go, "Oh, okay. That's that's fine." And then, you know, that's fine." And then, you know, that's fine." And then, you know, they're just going to walk over you they're just going to walk over you they're just going to walk over you again. Like, that's we're not going to again. Like, that's we're not going to again. Like, that's we're not going to walk on eggshells with that. But if you walk on eggshells with that. But if you walk on eggshells with that. But if you were to say, "I know that wasn't a joke were to say, "I know that wasn't a joke were to say, "I know that wasn't a joke or that's not a doesn't sound like a or that's not a doesn't sound like a or that's not a doesn't sound like a joke. Sounds like an issue." Like that's joke. Sounds like an issue." Like that's joke. Sounds like an issue." Like that's a a lot. So much of this is being the a a lot. So much of this is being the a a lot. So much of this is being the bigger person in conversation. And that bigger person in conversation. And that bigger person in conversation. And that often means to be the most courageous in often means to be the most courageous in often means to be the most courageous in the conversation. And that's a hard the conversation. And that's a hard the conversation. And that's a hard thing to do. Before we continue, as thing to do. Before we continue, as thing to do. Before we continue, as you're probably aware, I'm not a massive you're probably aware, I'm not a massive you're probably aware, I'm not a massive drinker. At least not anymore. But even drinker. At least not anymore. But even drinker. At least not anymore. But even if you too are not drinking, sometimes if you too are not drinking, sometimes if you too are not drinking, sometimes you just want something cold, frosty, you just want something cold, frosty, you just want something cold, frosty, and tasty without the fear of a hangover and tasty without the fear of a hangover and tasty without the fear of a hangover the next day. Which is why I'm such a the next day. Which is why I'm such a the next day. Which is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co. Thank huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co. Thank huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co. Thank you very much. Their non-alcoholic brews you very much. Their non-alcoholic brews you very much. Their non-alcoholic brews taste just as good as The Real Thing. taste just as good as The Real Thing. taste just as good as The Real Thing. They've got IPAs, Hazy Goldens. They're They've got IPAs, Hazy Goldens. They're They've got IPAs, Hazy Goldens. They're so good that you'll forget that there's so good that you'll forget that there's so good that you'll forget that there's no alcohol in them until you wake up the no alcohol in them until you wake up the no alcohol in them until you wake up the next day feeling fantastic. It means next day feeling fantastic. It means next day feeling fantastic. It means that you can enjoy the ritual without that you can enjoy the ritual without that you can enjoy the ritual without the wreckage. No hangover, no 3:00 a.m. the wreckage. No hangover, no 3:00 a.m. the wreckage. No hangover, no 3:00 a.m. panic, no wasted Sunday recovering from panic, no wasted Sunday recovering from panic, no wasted Sunday recovering from Saturday. That is why I partnered with Saturday. That is why I partnered with Saturday. That is why I partnered with them. You can find Athletic Brewing them. You can find Athletic Brewing them. You can find Athletic Brewing Co.'s bestselling lineup at grocery or Co.'s bestselling lineup at grocery or Co.'s bestselling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you. Or best option, liquor stores near you. Or best option, liquor stores near you. Or best option, you can get the full variety pack of you can get the full variety pack of you can get the full variety pack of four flavors shipped right to your door four flavors shipped right to your door four flavors shipped right to your door right now. Get up to 15% off your first right now. Get up to 15% off your first right now. Get up to 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the online order by going to the link in the online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to description below or heading to description below or heading to athleticbwing.com/modernwisdom athleticbwing.com/modernwisdom athleticbwing.com/modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout. using the code modernwisdom at checkout. using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's athleticb That's athleticb That's athleticb brewing.com/modernwisdom brewing.com/modernwisdom brewing.com/modernwisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. near and modern wisdom at checkout. near and modern wisdom at checkout. near beer. Terms and conditions apply. beer. Terms and conditions apply. beer. Terms and conditions apply. Athletic brewing company fit for all Athletic brewing company fit for all Athletic brewing company fit for all times. What do you think are the most times. What do you think are the most times. What do you think are the most common phrases that make people sound common phrases that make people sound common phrases that make people sound weak? weak? weak? Usually beginning with I'm sorry, but Usually beginning with I'm sorry, but Usually beginning with I'm sorry, but that's that's that's one that I'm sorry, but you don't really one that I'm sorry, but you don't really one that I'm sorry, but you don't really mean it. I I don't mean any disrespect, mean it. I I don't mean any disrespect, mean it. I I don't mean any disrespect, but I don't want this to sound rude, but but I don't want this to sound rude, but but I don't want this to sound rude, but yeah, you do. Or else you wouldn't be yeah, you do. Or else you wouldn't be yeah, you do. Or else you wouldn't be saying it like that. saying it like that. saying it like that. You just delete those and say what you You just delete those and say what you You just delete those and say what you need to say need to say need to say >> from after the bug. >> from after the bug. >> from after the bug. >> From after the bug. Exactly. That's it's >> From after the bug. Exactly. That's it's >> From after the bug. Exactly. That's it's it's just hedging. Another is where it's just hedging. Another is where it's just hedging. Another is where people uh they cut out the legs people uh they cut out the legs people uh they cut out the legs underneath their sentences before they underneath their sentences before they underneath their sentences before they even get them out. Like, yeah, I hate to even get them out. Like, yeah, I hate to even get them out. Like, yeah, I hate to bother you, but um I mean, I could be bother you, but um I mean, I could be bother you, but um I mean, I could be wrong about this, but I mean, you wrong about this, but I mean, you wrong about this, but I mean, you probably know better than me, but it's probably know better than me, but it's probably know better than me, but it's all these like hedging that makes them all these like hedging that makes them all these like hedging that makes them sound really, really weak in the sound really, really weak in the sound really, really weak in the conversation. That is something that's conversation. That is something that's conversation. That is something that's it's it's it's unnecessary. A lot of the it's it's it's unnecessary. A lot of the it's it's it's unnecessary. A lot of the I thinks, I believes, I think in casual conversation, it's not I think in casual conversation, it's not a problem. But if you're wanting to a problem. But if you're wanting to a problem. But if you're wanting to sound assertive, sound assertive, sound assertive, the I thinks and I believes, you can the I thinks and I believes, you can the I thinks and I believes, you can just replace them with I'm confident just replace them with I'm confident just replace them with I'm confident that that that instead of like I believe I'd be a good instead of like I believe I'd be a good instead of like I believe I'd be a good asset to this company, it's I'm asset to this company, it's I'm asset to this company, it's I'm confident I'd be a good asset to this confident I'd be a good asset to this confident I'd be a good asset to this company and they'd write down, man, he company and they'd write down, man, he company and they'd write down, man, he sounds so confident. You know, it's it's sounds so confident. You know, it's it's sounds so confident. You know, it's it's just it's pure language choice. just it's pure language choice. just it's pure language choice. >> You know, I learned from my academic >> You know, I learned from my academic >> You know, I learned from my academic friends. I hedge sometimes because I'm friends. I hedge sometimes because I'm friends. I hedge sometimes because I'm wholly unqualified to talk about pretty wholly unqualified to talk about pretty wholly unqualified to talk about pretty much everything I talk about. And it's much everything I talk about. And it's much everything I talk about. And it's important to caveat especially if you're important to caveat especially if you're important to caveat especially if you're like like like >> for sure I'm I'm in bro science >> for sure I'm I'm in bro science >> for sure I'm I'm in bro science territory here and I learned I learned territory here and I learned I learned territory here and I learned I learned uh that academics have an equivalent for uh that academics have an equivalent for uh that academics have an equivalent for that. They say that. They say that. They say >> it's directionally correct that >> it's directionally correct that >> it's directionally correct that directionally correct dude is the directionally correct dude is the directionally correct dude is the [ __ ] hey 5149 or 991 I'm [ __ ] hey 5149 or 991 I'm [ __ ] hey 5149 or 991 I'm directionally correct either way. If I directionally correct either way. If I directionally correct either way. If I know that this is at least in this side know that this is at least in this side know that this is at least in this side of the fence, I got it. I love I It's of the fence, I got it. I love I It's of the fence, I got it. I love I It's directionally correct that men are directionally correct that men are directionally correct that men are stronger than women on average. Yeah. stronger than women on average. Yeah. stronger than women on average. Yeah. Their upper body strength on average as Their upper body strength on average as Their upper body strength on average as well is wonderful. You hide so many well is wonderful. You hide so many well is wonderful. You hide so many things in things in things in >> say anything on >> say anything on >> say anything on >> on average. >> on average. >> on average. >> On average. >> On average. >> On average. >> Yeah. I mean on average you just >> Yeah. I mean on average you just >> Yeah. I mean on average you just literally need to be better than 50% literally need to be better than 50% literally need to be better than 50% right. right. right. >> So it's a it's a good start. You >> So it's a it's a good start. You >> So it's a it's a good start. You mentioned um assertiveness. mentioned um assertiveness. mentioned um assertiveness. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Where does self asssurance come from in Where does self asssurance come from in Where does self asssurance come from in your opinion? >> It's tied a lot to confidence. So I I >> It's tied a lot to confidence. So I I teach that confidence is as assertive teach that confidence is as assertive teach that confidence is as assertive does. Meaning if you want to feel more does. Meaning if you want to feel more does. Meaning if you want to feel more confident, you need to say more confident, you need to say more confident, you need to say more assertive things. And most often we get assertive things. And most often we get assertive things. And most often we get taught and seen that the most confident taught and seen that the most confident taught and seen that the most confident people are the loudest, the I don't people are the loudest, the I don't people are the loudest, the I don't know, the broest of any of it when it's know, the broest of any of it when it's know, the broest of any of it when it's actually the person who's the most actually the person who's the most actually the person who's the most controlled, the one who's the calmst. controlled, the one who's the calmst. controlled, the one who's the calmst. >> Carth dergating the bros. >> Carth dergating the bros. >> Carth dergating the bros. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. Not at >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. Not at >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. Not at all. Would never if like being able to all. Would never if like being able to all. Would never if like being able to say say say who's going to be the most emotionally who's going to be the most emotionally who's going to be the most emotionally reactive reactive reactive >> when things hit the fan because they >> when things hit the fan because they >> when things hit the fan because they will hit the fan. Yeah. Um, and making will hit the fan. Yeah. Um, and making will hit the fan. Yeah. Um, and making sure that how do you know if you're sure that how do you know if you're sure that how do you know if you're who's the captain of the ship? It's who who's the captain of the ship? It's who who's the captain of the ship? It's who has the highest threshold for conflict. has the highest threshold for conflict. has the highest threshold for conflict. You know, that that's that's going to be You know, that that's that's going to be You know, that that's that's going to be one of the biggest markers right there. one of the biggest markers right there. one of the biggest markers right there. Like confident people don't need to say Like confident people don't need to say Like confident people don't need to say it to know that for you to know it. Like it to know that for you to know it. Like it to know that for you to know it. Like I I don't have to say it to make sure I I don't have to say it to make sure I I don't have to say it to make sure that I know it or you know it. that I know it or you know it. that I know it or you know it. I um I think my grandfather told me once I um I think my grandfather told me once I um I think my grandfather told me once of like little dogs yip at everything of like little dogs yip at everything of like little dogs yip at everything but big dogs only have to bark once. but big dogs only have to bark once. but big dogs only have to bark once. Like it's it's that kind of mentality of Like it's it's that kind of mentality of Like it's it's that kind of mentality of knowing that I don't I don't have to knowing that I don't I don't have to knowing that I don't I don't have to have a comment for every little thing. have a comment for every little thing. have a comment for every little thing. >> The most [ __ ] Texan quote of all >> The most [ __ ] Texan quote of all >> The most [ __ ] Texan quote of all time. Little dogs and big dogs. time. Little dogs and big dogs. time. Little dogs and big dogs. >> That's right. Little dogs. Yeah. Big >> That's right. Little dogs. Yeah. Big >> That's right. Little dogs. Yeah. Big dogs bark. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. dogs bark. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. dogs bark. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Uh have you heard the term veagal >> Uh have you heard the term veagal >> Uh have you heard the term veagal authority? authority? authority? I didn't know but it sounds like I didn't know but it sounds like I didn't know but it sounds like something I would learn and something I would learn and something I would learn and >> it sounds like something that you would >> it sounds like something that you would >> it sounds like something that you would love. So love. So love. So >> Joe Hudson who Charlie introduced me to >> Joe Hudson who Charlie introduced me to >> Joe Hudson who Charlie introduced me to >> has got this idea of veagal authority >> has got this idea of veagal authority >> has got this idea of veagal authority and what he means is and what he means is and what he means is >> in a room or in an interaction >> in a room or in an interaction >> in a room or in an interaction whose nervous system is dictating how whose nervous system is dictating how whose nervous system is dictating how everybody else moves. everybody else moves. everybody else moves. >> Everybody's in different levels. Some >> Everybody's in different levels. Some >> Everybody's in different levels. Some people are at eights, some people are at people are at eights, some people are at people are at eights, some people are at threes. threes. threes. Where does the room go? Especially in a Where does the room go? Especially in a Where does the room go? Especially in a one-on-one, who's got the veagal one-on-one, who's got the veagal one-on-one, who's got the veagal authority authority authority >> between the two of us? >> between the two of us? >> between the two of us? >> Interesting. So, who's who's the >> Interesting. So, who's who's the >> Interesting. So, who's who's the thermostat? thermostat? thermostat? >> Yeah. Who's dict who's dictating this? >> Yeah. Who's dict who's dictating this? >> Yeah. Who's dict who's dictating this? >> Who's the thermostat? Oh, I mean, you're >> Who's the thermostat? Oh, I mean, you're >> Who's the thermostat? Oh, I mean, you're >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> you're the host, so >> you're the host, so >> you're the host, so >> Oh, well, [ __ ] me. I'm not I'm not I'm >> Oh, well, [ __ ] me. I'm not I'm not I'm >> Oh, well, [ __ ] me. I'm not I'm not I'm not going to dick measure you in who's not going to dick measure you in who's not going to dick measure you in who's got more more veagal authority cuz I am got more more veagal authority cuz I am got more more veagal authority cuz I am going to lose. Um, but going to lose. Um, but going to lose. Um, but >> I just love that term. The first time >> I just love that term. The first time >> I just love that term. The first time that he ever said it, I thought veagal that he ever said it, I thought veagal that he ever said it, I thought veagal authority is authority is authority is >> I think that's right. is such a >> I think that's right. is such a >> I think that's right. is such a wonderful way to think about what it is. wonderful way to think about what it is. wonderful way to think about what it is. We talk about nervous system capacity or We talk about nervous system capacity or We talk about nervous system capacity or emotional resilience and that sounds emotional resilience and that sounds emotional resilience and that sounds great but it's very abstract. great but it's very abstract. great but it's very abstract. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Veagal authority and just defining it as >> Veagal authority and just defining it as >> Veagal authority and just defining it as in an interaction in an interaction in an interaction >> whose nervous system is in charge, >> whose nervous system is in charge, >> whose nervous system is in charge, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Are you both going to compromise and >> Are you both going to compromise and >> Are you both going to compromise and meet in the middle? meet in the middle? meet in the middle? >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> Are you going to stay where you are? you >> Are you going to stay where you are? you >> Are you going to stay where you are? you going down to where that I mean going down to where that I mean going down to where that I mean obviously you could have veagal obviously you could have veagal obviously you could have veagal authority at Nate and be like hey come authority at Nate and be like hey come authority at Nate and be like hey come up to me [ __ ] like up to me [ __ ] like up to me [ __ ] like um but assuming that you're coming at um but assuming that you're coming at um but assuming that you're coming at this from the right side of the fence this from the right side of the fence this from the right side of the fence >> so >> so >> so >> it sounds like a lot of what you're >> it sounds like a lot of what you're >> it sounds like a lot of what you're talking about is your version of veagal talking about is your version of veagal talking about is your version of veagal authority that's probably right there's authority that's probably right there's authority that's probably right there's a lot of conversation the same way they a lot of conversation the same way they a lot of conversation the same way they say show up like you've been there say show up like you've been there say show up like you've been there before the same way in conversation uh before the same way in conversation uh before the same way in conversation uh meaning you can you can say something meaning you can you can say something meaning you can you can say something and have an emotional reaction. And like and have an emotional reaction. And like and have an emotional reaction. And like we talked about at the very beginning, we talked about at the very beginning, we talked about at the very beginning, those that beautiful moment of like my those that beautiful moment of like my those that beautiful moment of like my capacity is large enough to take any of capacity is large enough to take any of capacity is large enough to take any of this and all of this. And so if you're this and all of this. And so if you're this and all of this. And so if you're in a meeting and you walk in, who who's in a meeting and you walk in, who who's in a meeting and you walk in, who who's the thermostat who's going to be the thermostat who's going to be the thermostat who's going to be controlling the temperature of the room? controlling the temperature of the room? controlling the temperature of the room? And if you're the one that has to chime And if you're the one that has to chime And if you're the one that has to chime in on every single thing, who's in on every single thing, who's in on every single thing, who's emotionally reactive at the smest the emotionally reactive at the smest the emotionally reactive at the smest the smallest little inconvenience, smallest little inconvenience, smallest little inconvenience, uh somebody who it's it's usually uh somebody who it's it's usually uh somebody who it's it's usually it's if somebody it's if somebody it's if somebody like cusses a lot. like cusses a lot. like cusses a lot. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> There it's usually a sign of emotional >> There it's usually a sign of emotional >> There it's usually a sign of emotional reactivity of like I'm I'm getting reactivity of like I'm I'm getting reactivity of like I'm I'm getting really hyped or low on something really hyped or low on something really hyped or low on something >> or they're British. >> or they're British. >> or they're British. >> Yeah. Or they're British. Yeah. Sure. >> Yeah. Or they're British. Yeah. Sure. >> Yeah. Or they're British. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And to be able to >> And to be able to >> And to be able to versus the person who has a very high versus the person who has a very high versus the person who has a very high threshold to where they don't say threshold to where they don't say threshold to where they don't say everything they could say like they have everything they could say like they have everything they could say like they have opinion but they don't need to voice it. opinion but they don't need to voice it. opinion but they don't need to voice it. In other words, for it to have any In other words, for it to have any In other words, for it to have any validity. They know that they know it. validity. They know that they know it. validity. They know that they know it. They don't have to name drop. They know They don't have to name drop. They know They don't have to name drop. They know that they have value. They don't have to that they have value. They don't have to that they have value. They don't have to talk about how much their company sold talk about how much their company sold talk about how much their company sold for. Like they they don't need to say for. Like they they don't need to say for. Like they they don't need to say it. They know what kind of car they it. They know what kind of car they it. They know what kind of car they drive without having to be flashy. Like drive without having to be flashy. Like drive without having to be flashy. Like it's it's the it's the understatement of it's it's the it's the understatement of it's it's the it's the understatement of knowing that you know walk silently with knowing that you know walk silently with knowing that you know walk silently with a big stick. a big stick. a big stick. >> What is it that makes someone sound >> What is it that makes someone sound >> What is it that makes someone sound composed? composed? composed? >> A calm voice. There's a voice that >> A calm voice. There's a voice that >> A calm voice. There's a voice that sounds warm. Voice that sounds in a sounds warm. Voice that sounds in a sounds warm. Voice that sounds in a lower register. lower register. lower register. Words that are spaced out more. Words that are spaced out more. Words that are spaced out more. If I talk really fast all the time and If I talk really fast all the time and If I talk really fast all the time and you can't really catch up with my you can't really catch up with my you can't really catch up with my message and I'm really like just it's message and I'm really like just it's message and I'm really like just it's going to naturally make you more going to naturally make you more going to naturally make you more anxious. Like we all have those people anxious. Like we all have those people anxious. Like we all have those people in our life that just to be around them in our life that just to be around them in our life that just to be around them you feel a little bit more anxiety. you feel a little bit more anxiety. you feel a little bit more anxiety. >> Um those tend to be people who are the >> Um those tend to be people who are the >> Um those tend to be people who are the sky is falling. We have to have they're sky is falling. We have to have they're sky is falling. We have to have they're very very fast when they talk. They're very very fast when they talk. They're very very fast when they talk. They're very quick to make judgments and choices very quick to make judgments and choices very quick to make judgments and choices and decisions about how they're going to and decisions about how they're going to and decisions about how they're going to feel and how this is going to go versus feel and how this is going to go versus feel and how this is going to go versus slowing it down. weighing slowing it down. weighing slowing it down. weighing and knowing that the best type of and knowing that the best type of and knowing that the best type of choices are ones that have been choices are ones that have been choices are ones that have been intentionally thought of. Like it's say intentionally thought of. Like it's say intentionally thought of. Like it's say for example, for example, for example, if you ask me a question and I if you ask me a question and I if you ask me a question and I immediately just have an answer right immediately just have an answer right immediately just have an answer right off the bat versus you ask me a question off the bat versus you ask me a question off the bat versus you ask me a question and I and I and I take a breath and I think about it and take a breath and I think about it and take a breath and I think about it and then I answer which one sounds more then I answer which one sounds more then I answer which one sounds more composed. It's not going to be the one composed. It's not going to be the one composed. It's not going to be the one that's all hyped up. is going to be the that's all hyped up. is going to be the that's all hyped up. is going to be the one that's a little bit more slower. one that's a little bit more slower. one that's a little bit more slower. Like if you think of people that Like if you think of people that Like if you think of people that who are the most composed in your life, who are the most composed in your life, who are the most composed in your life, the generally the people that make you the generally the people that make you the generally the people that make you feel the most comfortable. feel the most comfortable. feel the most comfortable. And to me, I like the aspect. I've And to me, I like the aspect. I've And to me, I like the aspect. I've always compared it to just the feeling always compared it to just the feeling always compared it to just the feeling of warm feeling of you're welcome here. of warm feeling of you're welcome here. of warm feeling of you're welcome here. Yeah. You can disagree with disagree Yeah. You can disagree with disagree Yeah. You can disagree with disagree with me, that's welcome, too. with me, that's welcome, too. with me, that's welcome, too. No, I I I see it between nice guy and No, I I I see it between nice guy and No, I I I see it between nice guy and good man. A nice guy wants to be liked. good man. A nice guy wants to be liked. good man. A nice guy wants to be liked. A good man wants to be worthy. Like, how A good man wants to be worthy. Like, how A good man wants to be worthy. Like, how do I how do I show you my words that do I how do I show you my words that do I how do I show you my words that you're worth my time and this you're worth my time and this you're worth my time and this conversation is worth my time. I I do conversation is worth my time. I I do conversation is worth my time. I I do that not by trying to rush you out the that not by trying to rush you out the that not by trying to rush you out the door or look for the next person to talk door or look for the next person to talk door or look for the next person to talk to while I'm talking to you at the to while I'm talking to you at the to while I'm talking to you at the networking event or small talk. networking event or small talk. networking event or small talk. >> So, I'm I'm choosing to give you my >> So, I'm I'm choosing to give you my >> So, I'm I'm choosing to give you my time. time. time. >> What's the difference between being >> What's the difference between being >> What's the difference between being assertive and being an [ __ ] assertive and being an [ __ ] assertive and being an [ __ ] Assertiveness says I can respect you and Assertiveness says I can respect you and Assertiveness says I can respect you and I can respect the other person or I can respect the other person or I can respect the other person or respect myself. Let me say that respect myself. Let me say that respect myself. Let me say that differently. So there's like a spectrum differently. So there's like a spectrum differently. So there's like a spectrum of somebody who's passive versus of somebody who's passive versus of somebody who's passive versus somebody who's aggressive and then somebody who's aggressive and then somebody who's aggressive and then assertiveness is in the middle. Aggress assertiveness is in the middle. Aggress assertiveness is in the middle. Aggress aggression says I don't respect you. aggression says I don't respect you. aggression says I don't respect you. Somebody passive says I don't respect Somebody passive says I don't respect Somebody passive says I don't respect me. Assertiveness saying I can respect me. Assertiveness saying I can respect me. Assertiveness saying I can respect both of us. Meaning I can lay up my both of us. Meaning I can lay up my both of us. Meaning I can lay up my boundary and I can still like you. Like boundary and I can still like you. Like boundary and I can still like you. Like I mean my dad would say all the time, I mean my dad would say all the time, I mean my dad would say all the time, you know, I'm need to discipline. He you know, I'm need to discipline. He you know, I'm need to discipline. He doesn't mean I don't love you. You know, doesn't mean I don't love you. You know, doesn't mean I don't love you. You know, I I need to I need to do this. I need to I I need to I need to do this. I need to I I need to I need to do this. I need to have this conversation. And it's because have this conversation. And it's because have this conversation. And it's because I love you that I'm going to have this I love you that I'm going to have this I love you that I'm going to have this conversation. And when you come to terms conversation. And when you come to terms conversation. And when you come to terms with with with I can I can I can want all the good things for you and want all the good things for you and want all the good things for you and also say I'm not going to tolerate that. also say I'm not going to tolerate that. also say I'm not going to tolerate that. >> Both things can be true. >> Both things can be true. >> Both things can be true. >> What about being an [ __ ] >> What about being an [ __ ] >> What about being an [ __ ] What about it? What about it? What about it? >> I think a lot of the time when people >> I think a lot of the time when people >> I think a lot of the time when people think they're being assertive, think they're being assertive, think they're being assertive, they are leaning into assholeery. they are leaning into assholeery. they are leaning into assholeery. >> And is that a word? >> And is that a word? >> And is that a word? >> Correct. Okay. Of the two of us, I'm >> Correct. Okay. Of the two of us, I'm >> Correct. Okay. Of the two of us, I'm aware that you've done a thousand plus aware that you've done a thousand plus aware that you've done a thousand plus 2,000 depositions, but uh it's our 2,000 depositions, but uh it's our 2,000 depositions, but uh it's our language. language. language. >> Yeah. I will remind you it's our >> Yeah. I will remind you it's our >> Yeah. I will remind you it's our language. language. language. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Although it is my taxes and your >> Yeah. Although it is my taxes and your >> Yeah. Although it is my taxes and your country, so I better be careful. Um, country, so I better be careful. Um, country, so I better be careful. Um, a lot of the time people mistake a lot of the time people mistake a lot of the time people mistake bruskness and uh uh callousness like bruskness and uh uh callousness like bruskness and uh uh callousness like like uh socially acceptable callousness. like uh socially acceptable callousness. like uh socially acceptable callousness. It's the same as being assertive. I'm It's the same as being assertive. I'm It's the same as being assertive. I'm going to say this thing in a way that's going to say this thing in a way that's going to say this thing in a way that's unnecessarily unnecessarily unnecessarily tuss or or cutting or tuss or or cutting or tuss or or cutting or unconsiderate, I think. Mhm. unconsiderate, I think. Mhm. unconsiderate, I think. Mhm. >> And that's the same as being assertive. >> And that's the same as being assertive. >> And that's the same as being assertive. And a lot of the time I see people who And a lot of the time I see people who And a lot of the time I see people who are [ __ ] are [ __ ] are [ __ ] that people see as unlikable, assertive that people see as unlikable, assertive that people see as unlikable, assertive people, people, people, >> if that makes sense. >> if that makes sense. >> if that makes sense. >> Yeah. I think a lot of the time >> Yeah. I think a lot of the time >> Yeah. I think a lot of the time the boundary of [ __ ] and the boundary of [ __ ] and the boundary of [ __ ] and assertiveness assertiveness assertiveness functionally can sometimes deliver the functionally can sometimes deliver the functionally can sometimes deliver the same outcome which is same outcome which is same outcome which is I'm going to say you bully the person I'm going to say you bully the person I'm going to say you bully the person into getting what you want but you you into getting what you want but you you into getting what you want but you you sort of state you you state your sort of state you you state your sort of state you you state your intention intention intention >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> without apology. Right. That's something >> without apology. Right. That's something >> without apology. Right. That's something that the [ __ ] and the assertive that the [ __ ] and the assertive that the [ __ ] and the assertive person have in common. person have in common. person have in common. >> Mhm. Uh but the difference is that the >> Mhm. Uh but the difference is that the >> Mhm. Uh but the difference is that the assertive person is doing it from a assertive person is doing it from a assertive person is doing it from a place of compromise pro-socialness. The place of compromise pro-socialness. The place of compromise pro-socialness. The [ __ ] is doing it almost to show off [ __ ] is doing it almost to show off [ __ ] is doing it almost to show off to look good to be unconsiderate. One to look good to be unconsiderate. One to look good to be unconsiderate. One that's it. One is considerate and the that's it. One is considerate and the that's it. One is considerate and the other is unconsiderate. At least as far other is unconsiderate. At least as far other is unconsiderate. At least as far as I can see. as I can see. as I can see. >> Yeah. And I'd say one is selfish, the >> Yeah. And I'd say one is selfish, the >> Yeah. And I'd say one is selfish, the other can also be supporting. I mean other can also be supporting. I mean other can also be supporting. I mean it's I would say that the person who it's I would say that the person who it's I would say that the person who wants to be assertive has both people in wants to be assertive has both people in wants to be assertive has both people in mind. The other does not. So I think the mind. The other does not. So I think the mind. The other does not. So I think the considerate inconsiderate considerate inconsiderate considerate inconsiderate the the the the person who always has to win the the person who always has to win the the person who always has to win the argument is the person who typically argument is the person who typically argument is the person who typically loses everything. loses everything. loses everything. >> You've got uh 10 specific ways to >> You've got uh 10 specific ways to >> You've got uh 10 specific ways to practice assertiveness. practice assertiveness. practice assertiveness. What is the one that most people skip? What is the one that most people skip? What is the one that most people skip? Oh, Oh, Oh, being intentional with your words. being intentional with your words. being intentional with your words. Meaning, they find that the more words Meaning, they find that the more words Meaning, they find that the more words they use, the more believable they'll they use, the more believable they'll they use, the more believable they'll sound. And just the opposite, it's it's sound. And just the opposite, it's it's sound. And just the opposite, it's it's this idea of the more words you have to this idea of the more words you have to this idea of the more words you have to use to tell the truth, the more it use to tell the truth, the more it use to tell the truth, the more it starts to sound like a lie, more it starts to sound like a lie, more it starts to sound like a lie, more it sounds like you don't really know what sounds like you don't really know what sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about. The more words you you're talking about. The more words you you're talking about. The more words you have to use to explain something that have to use to explain something that have to use to explain something that should be relatively easy to explain. should be relatively easy to explain. should be relatively easy to explain. So, excessiveness, oversharing, saying So, excessiveness, oversharing, saying So, excessiveness, oversharing, saying too much. too much. too much. It's a very quick way to It's a very quick way to It's a very quick way to miscommunication because you're giving miscommunication because you're giving miscommunication because you're giving them. them. them. Do have Do you know I don't Do you know Do have Do you know I don't Do you know Do have Do you know I don't Do you know Golden Corrals? Like buffets? Ever heard Golden Corrals? Like buffets? Ever heard Golden Corrals? Like buffets? Ever heard of those? of those? of those? >> It's not a place you'd probably go to. >> It's not a place you'd probably go to. >> It's not a place you'd probably go to. But I look But I look But I look >> Hold hold hold your thought on Golden >> Hold hold hold your thought on Golden >> Hold hold hold your thought on Golden Corrals and where you're going. Okay. I Corrals and where you're going. Okay. I Corrals and where you're going. Okay. I I need I need to I need to make this I need I need to I need to make this I need I need to I need to make this statement to a person who's lived in the statement to a person who's lived in the statement to a person who's lived in the south of America for a good while. south of America for a good while. south of America for a good while. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. As a British person, I feel I have a As a British person, I feel I have a As a British person, I feel I have a more accurate understanding of American more accurate understanding of American more accurate understanding of American cuisine than Americans do. cuisine than Americans do. cuisine than Americans do. >> That's probably true. And this is >> That's probably true. And this is >> That's probably true. And this is because Denny's and IHOP and Cheesecake because Denny's and IHOP and Cheesecake because Denny's and IHOP and Cheesecake Factory are elite establishments. Good. Factory are elite establishments. Good. Factory are elite establishments. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. You do understand so many >> Okay. You do understand so many >> Okay. You do understand so many Americans look down their nose at what Americans look down their nose at what Americans look down their nose at what are objectively wonderful places to go are objectively wonderful places to go are objectively wonderful places to go and eat. Denny's and eat. Denny's and eat. Denny's coffee at 2 in the morning. Unlimited coffee at 2 in the morning. Unlimited coffee at 2 in the morning. Unlimited refills. Yeah, the cinnamon pancake refills. Yeah, the cinnamon pancake refills. Yeah, the cinnamon pancake stack. stack. stack. >> Don't you dare. >> Don't you dare. >> Don't you dare. >> Fantastic. Very good. Very good. Very >> Fantastic. Very good. Very good. Very >> Fantastic. Very good. Very good. Very good. good. good. >> As Theon once said, uh you can see a >> As Theon once said, uh you can see a >> As Theon once said, uh you can see a woman giving birth in there sometimes. woman giving birth in there sometimes. woman giving birth in there sometimes. >> You just don't know what you're going to >> You just don't know what you're going to >> You just don't know what you're going to get. You never know sometimes. get. You never know sometimes. get. You never know sometimes. >> Yeah, I hope so. >> Yeah, I hope so. >> Yeah, I hope so. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> so Golden Corral as yet. Not been to. >> so Golden Corral as yet. Not been to. >> so Golden Corral as yet. Not been to. However, I did go to a Cracker Barrel. I However, I did go to a Cracker Barrel. I However, I did go to a Cracker Barrel. I really like it. really like it. really like it. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> I want to go I only want >> I want to go I only want >> I want to go I only want >> Peg game. >> Peg game. >> Peg game. >> Peg. Pegging. >> Peg. Pegging. >> Peg. Pegging. >> Oh, no. Let's not go there. It's the >> Oh, no. Let's not go there. It's the >> Oh, no. Let's not go there. It's the It's the game that's like a wooden It's the game that's like a wooden It's the game that's like a wooden triangle and you have the T's that's triangle and you have the T's that's triangle and you have the T's that's like like like >> that's not the pegging that I'm >> that's not the pegging that I'm >> that's not the pegging that I'm familiar. familiar. familiar. >> Yeah. No, no, you're you would be I >> Yeah. No, no, you're you would be I >> Yeah. No, no, you're you would be I don't I don't know that. don't I don't know that. don't I don't know that. >> Again, British. >> Again, British. >> Again, British. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> what I did like and I refuse now to go >> what I did like and I refuse now to go >> what I did like and I refuse now to go to any restaurant where I can't buy any to any restaurant where I can't buy any to any restaurant where I can't buy any item of furniture or art on the wall. item of furniture or art on the wall. item of furniture or art on the wall. >> Yeah, there's a little general store. >> Yeah, there's a little general store. >> Yeah, there's a little general store. >> I want to go I want to go I want to be >> I want to go I want to go I want to be >> I want to go I want to go I want to be like, "How much is that?" That's the like, "How much is that?" That's the like, "How much is that?" That's the sir. That's That's somebody's daughter. sir. That's That's somebody's daughter. sir. That's That's somebody's daughter. She's not for sale. They're like, "I She's not for sale. They're like, "I She's not for sale. They're like, "I don't care. She looks like she's pinned don't care. She looks like she's pinned don't care. She looks like she's pinned on the wall. That's going to be we on the wall. That's going to be we on the wall. That's going to be we that's that's she would look wonderful that's that's she would look wonderful that's that's she would look wonderful about above the fireplace. about above the fireplace. about above the fireplace. >> Yeah, you can you can have all the >> Yeah, you can you can have all the >> Yeah, you can you can have all the blankets and you know how do you take it blankets and you know how do you take it blankets and you know how do you take it all? Pop guns that you want. How do you all? Pop guns that you want. How do you all? Pop guns that you want. How do you take it all? Uh Golden Corral. Yeah, we take it all? Uh Golden Corral. Yeah, we take it all? Uh Golden Corral. Yeah, we were talking about um where sometimes were talking about um where sometimes were talking about um where sometimes you're giving people too many options to you're giving people too many options to you're giving people too many options to choose in the conversation. Meaning the choose in the conversation. Meaning the choose in the conversation. Meaning the the meaning is going to get lost. Your the meaning is going to get lost. Your the meaning is going to get lost. Your Cheesecake Factory menu. Cheesecake Factory menu. Cheesecake Factory menu. >> You're absolutely. Yeah, exactly. >> You're absolutely. Yeah, exactly. >> You're absolutely. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, we can talk more about the Anyway, we can talk more about the Anyway, we can talk more about the Cheesecake Factory. I'm all for it. Cheesecake Factory. I'm all for it. Cheesecake Factory. I'm all for it. >> I'm so glad that I found a Kindred >> I'm so glad that I found a Kindred >> I'm so glad that I found a Kindred Spirit. I knew I liked you, but now like Spirit. I knew I liked you, but now like Spirit. I knew I liked you, but now like I really like Really? Yeah. Let's just I really like Really? Yeah. Let's just I really like Really? Yeah. Let's just talk about the cheesecake menu. Let's talk about the cheesecake menu. Let's talk about the cheesecake menu. Let's just read that. just read that. just read that. >> Um yeah, exactly. You're giving people >> Um yeah, exactly. You're giving people >> Um yeah, exactly. You're giving people too many options. Um and that often will too many options. Um and that often will too many options. Um and that often will lead to miscommunication because they're lead to miscommunication because they're lead to miscommunication because they're picking and choosing what you're trying picking and choosing what you're trying picking and choosing what you're trying exactly to say. And so you don't want to exactly to say. And so you don't want to exactly to say. And so you don't want to don't leave don't leave don't leave what your intention is in the what your intention is in the what your intention is in the conversation up to the other person to conversation up to the other person to conversation up to the other person to guess. You need to be sufficiently guess. You need to be sufficiently guess. You need to be sufficiently clear. clear. clear. >> Too much >> Too much >> Too much >> correct. And that and that is what will >> correct. And that and that is what will >> correct. And that and that is what will often lead to the most unassertive often lead to the most unassertive often lead to the most unassertive communication because you're you can say communication because you're you can say communication because you're you can say a lot and still not to say anything. Oo, a lot and still not to say anything. Oo, a lot and still not to say anything. Oo, I've got one to add to your list of ways I've got one to add to your list of ways I've got one to add to your list of ways that people sound weak or at the very that people sound weak or at the very that people sound weak or at the very least imprecise and difficult to least imprecise and difficult to least imprecise and difficult to understand in a conversation. understand in a conversation. understand in a conversation. >> They ask a question and I noticed this >> They ask a question and I noticed this >> They ask a question and I noticed this with new podcasters when they begin with new podcasters when they begin with new podcasters when they begin because they're uncomfortable with because they're uncomfortable with because they're uncomfortable with sitting in silence. They're sitting in silence. They're sitting in silence. They're uncomfortable with asking a question, uncomfortable with asking a question, uncomfortable with asking a question, especially potentially a tough question, especially potentially a tough question, especially potentially a tough question, and then leaving it after the question and then leaving it after the question and then leaving it after the question mark. So, they'll say something like, mark. So, they'll say something like, mark. So, they'll say something like, "Jeffson, you're a trial lawyer, and "Jeffson, you're a trial lawyer, and "Jeffson, you're a trial lawyer, and that means that sometimes you need to that means that sometimes you need to that means that sometimes you need to represent people that have done bad represent people that have done bad represent people that have done bad things. How do you feel about that? things. How do you feel about that? things. How do you feel about that? >> Do you feel uh and then immediately >> Do you feel uh and then immediately >> Do you feel uh and then immediately >> jump on it?" >> jump on it?" >> jump on it?" >> They give you a couple of options. The >> They give you a couple of options. The >> They give you a couple of options. The problem with doing that, especially as a problem with doing that, especially as a problem with doing that, especially as a podcaster, is that I am imposing a podcaster, is that I am imposing a podcaster, is that I am imposing a duality. I've compressed the infinity of duality. I've compressed the infinity of duality. I've compressed the infinity of answers that you could have given me answers that you could have given me answers that you could have given me down into two choices. down into two choices. down into two choices. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And in order for you to pick the third >> And in order for you to pick the third >> And in order for you to pick the third one that might be true, one that might be true, one that might be true, >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> you have to say no, no, and this. And >> you have to say no, no, and this. And >> you have to say no, no, and this. And most people just go, well, yeah, it's most people just go, well, yeah, it's most people just go, well, yeah, it's kind of like that because it's easier. kind of like that because it's easier. kind of like that because it's easier. It's some here's two paths that I've It's some here's two paths that I've It's some here's two paths that I've carved for you. Pick which one. And carved for you. Pick which one. And carved for you. Pick which one. And they're usually relatively okay. It's an they're usually relatively okay. It's an they're usually relatively okay. It's an estimation of where I think you might estimation of where I think you might estimation of where I think you might go. You're like, it's your job. It's go. You're like, it's your job. It's go. You're like, it's your job. It's very important service. Do you think do very important service. Do you think do very important service. Do you think do you see it as your job as an important you see it as your job as an important you see it as your job as an important service? Or do you do you not take that service? Or do you do you not take that service? Or do you do you not take that work home with you or whatever? work home with you or whatever? work home with you or whatever? >> That does sound very British when you're >> That does sound very British when you're >> That does sound very British when you're doing that. Sounds like a BBC interview. doing that. Sounds like a BBC interview. doing that. Sounds like a BBC interview. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. >> Oh, yeah. I like uh Pierers Morgan. >> Oh, yeah. I like uh Pierers Morgan. >> Oh, yeah. I like uh Pierers Morgan. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Pers Morgan but with a functioning hip. >> Pers Morgan but with a functioning hip. >> Pers Morgan but with a functioning hip. Um you said earlier, I got to bring this Um you said earlier, I got to bring this Um you said earlier, I got to bring this up. You said earlier on about people up. You said earlier on about people up. You said earlier on about people that jewel. You know that the front that jewel. You know that the front that jewel. You know that the front benches in the House of Lords, benches in the House of Lords, benches in the House of Lords, the green benches where all of our the green benches where all of our the green benches where all of our politicians sit and talk, waffle, politicians sit and talk, waffle, politicians sit and talk, waffle, >> um the distance between the two front >> um the distance between the two front >> um the distance between the two front benches is the same as a broadsword held benches is the same as a broadsword held benches is the same as a broadsword held out at arms length. out at arms length. out at arms length. >> No way. >> No way. >> No way. >> Yeah. So if you do that again and then >> Yeah. So if you do that again and then >> Yeah. So if you do that again and then on the other side, that's the the on the other side, that's the the on the other side, that's the the distance between the two, which tells distance between the two, which tells distance between the two, which tells you everything that you need to know you everything that you need to know you everything that you need to know about how politics works. about how politics works. about how politics works. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. We're very we're very uh very >> Yeah. We're very we're very uh very >> Yeah. We're very we're very uh very sensitive to sensitive to sensitive to >> honor. Uh, being right is overrated. >> honor. Uh, being right is overrated. >> honor. Uh, being right is overrated. What's that mean? What's that mean? What's that mean? >> Yeah, it means, you know, we've heard >> Yeah, it means, you know, we've heard >> Yeah, it means, you know, we've heard these phrases of, do you wanna choose to these phrases of, do you wanna choose to these phrases of, do you wanna choose to be right or you want to choose to be be right or you want to choose to be be right or you want to choose to be happy? You know, do you want to choose happy? You know, do you want to choose happy? You know, do you want to choose to be the person who always has to be to be the person who always has to be to be the person who always has to be right? Usually that's the person who's right? Usually that's the person who's right? Usually that's the person who's also the loneliest. Like also the loneliest. Like also the loneliest. Like if you have to be right in this one if you have to be right in this one if you have to be right in this one particular argument like and we all have particular argument like and we all have particular argument like and we all have these kind of like silly arguments we these kind of like silly arguments we these kind of like silly arguments we might have like I my brothers and I might have like I my brothers and I might have like I my brothers and I might get into an argument about a movie might get into an argument about a movie might get into an argument about a movie you know whatever who's what's the best you know whatever who's what's the best you know whatever who's what's the best movie on whatever whatever and you can movie on whatever whatever and you can movie on whatever whatever and you can sure that I'm not talking about that I'm sure that I'm not talking about that I'm sure that I'm not talking about that I'm talking like a serious argument that talking like a serious argument that talking like a serious argument that you're having with somebody who matters you're having with somebody who matters you're having with somebody who matters to you and you have to be right on it to you and you have to be right on it to you and you have to be right on it and you're refusing to back down and and you're refusing to back down and and you're refusing to back down and then they eventually go you know what then they eventually go you know what then they eventually go you know what have it you got it you're right have it you got it you're right have it you got it you're right congratulations congratulations congratulations And that moment lasts for about a And that moment lasts for about a And that moment lasts for about a millisecond and then you're just kind of millisecond and then you're just kind of millisecond and then you're just kind of left with left with left with feeling like an idiot because you can feeling like an idiot because you can feeling like an idiot because you can continue to win arguments but also lose continue to win arguments but also lose continue to win arguments but also lose the relationship because nobody wants to the relationship because nobody wants to the relationship because nobody wants to be with somebody who's always has to be be with somebody who's always has to be be with somebody who's always has to be right. It's it shows more of an right. It's it shows more of an right. It's it shows more of an insecurity than it does intellect. insecurity than it does intellect. insecurity than it does intellect. So what should we prioritize instead of So what should we prioritize instead of So what should we prioritize instead of being right? being right? being right? >> Connection. It's the ability to >> Connection. It's the ability to >> Connection. It's the ability to see perspectives and understand. I I'd see perspectives and understand. I I'd see perspectives and understand. I I'd say appreciating somebody's perspective say appreciating somebody's perspective say appreciating somebody's perspective is an underrated skill. Meaning I don't is an underrated skill. Meaning I don't is an underrated skill. Meaning I don't have to agree with it. have to agree with it. have to agree with it. I can still hear it. So rather than I can still hear it. So rather than I can still hear it. So rather than saying I don't I don't agree with that. saying I don't I don't agree with that. saying I don't I don't agree with that. >> Which is me commenting on your point, I >> Which is me commenting on your point, I >> Which is me commenting on your point, I can say I see things differently. can say I see things differently. can say I see things differently. >> That's me commenting on your >> That's me commenting on your >> That's me commenting on your perspective. perspective. perspective. >> Very different. M >> Very different. M >> Very different. M >> and so when I'm able to use words of >> and so when I'm able to use words of >> and so when I'm able to use words of perspective like huh I see that perspective like huh I see that perspective like huh I see that differently I have a different take on differently I have a different take on differently I have a different take on that I I look at that a different that I I look at that a different that I I look at that a different perspective I get there another way perspective I get there another way perspective I get there another way people go huh okay then what do you what people go huh okay then what do you what people go huh okay then what do you what do you see what do you believe oh okay do you see what do you believe oh okay do you see what do you believe oh okay rather than them having to they don't rather than them having to they don't rather than them having to they don't have to have their sword and shield and have to have their sword and shield and have to have their sword and shield and defend exactly they don't have to defend defend exactly they don't have to defend defend exactly they don't have to defend it now they get to go oh okay they're it now they get to go oh okay they're it now they get to go oh okay they're not trying to attack me they just they not trying to attack me they just they not trying to attack me they just they go about it a different way how do they go about it a different way how do they go about it a different way how do they go M it's really inviting. go M it's really inviting. go M it's really inviting. >> Yeah. perspectives are are what allow >> Yeah. perspectives are are what allow >> Yeah. perspectives are are what allow you to have conversations of you to have conversations of you to have conversations of understanding rather than like I I can't understanding rather than like I I can't understanding rather than like I I can't stand it when somebody goes I just don't stand it when somebody goes I just don't stand it when somebody goes I just don't understand how they could possibly understand how they could possibly understand how they could possibly believe that like I don't I just don't believe that like I don't I just don't believe that like I don't I just don't get how their mind could even under and get how their mind could even under and get how their mind could even under and it's like did you try like have you it's like did you try like have you it's like did you try like have you asked like how how they came to asked like how how they came to asked like how how they came to >> I don't think people mean that a lot of >> I don't think people mean that a lot of >> I don't think people mean that a lot of the time what people what people are the time what people what people are the time what people what people are saying is saying is saying is >> I am sufficiently morally superior to >> I am sufficiently morally superior to >> I am sufficiently morally superior to that person that My theory of mind that person that My theory of mind that person that My theory of mind wouldn't even allow me to understand how wouldn't even allow me to understand how wouldn't even allow me to understand how somebody could vote for Donald Trump somebody could vote for Donald Trump somebody could vote for Donald Trump >> or do whatever. >> or do whatever. >> or do whatever. >> Yep. Or Kamala Harris or support this >> Yep. Or Kamala Harris or support this >> Yep. Or Kamala Harris or support this this perspective. this perspective. this perspective. >> Yeah. It's because they they do they >> Yeah. It's because they they do they >> Yeah. It's because they they do they feel this superiority of I'm obviously feel this superiority of I'm obviously feel this superiority of I'm obviously right. They're obviously wrong. How right. They're obviously wrong. How right. They're obviously wrong. How could they not see from could they not see from could they not see from >> Look at how right I am. I'm so right >> Look at how right I am. I'm so right >> Look at how right I am. I'm so right that they're essentially a different that they're essentially a different that they're essentially a different species in a different universe to me. species in a different universe to me. species in a different universe to me. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Uh it's like, you know what it makes me >> Uh it's like, you know what it makes me >> Uh it's like, you know what it makes me think about? It makes me think about think about? It makes me think about think about? It makes me think about empathy. So, we're talking about the empathy. So, we're talking about the empathy. So, we're talking about the ability to feel and understand somebody ability to feel and understand somebody ability to feel and understand somebody else's emotions. else's emotions. else's emotions. >> But this is a lot of people are able to >> But this is a lot of people are able to >> But this is a lot of people are able to do that like type one empathy we could do that like type one empathy we could do that like type one empathy we could call it. Uh I can feel and understand call it. Uh I can feel and understand call it. Uh I can feel and understand your emotions whilst not having type two your emotions whilst not having type two your emotions whilst not having type two empathy which is understanding how you empathy which is understanding how you empathy which is understanding how you arrived at your perspective. arrived at your perspective. arrived at your perspective. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And believing that you arrived there >> And believing that you arrived there >> And believing that you arrived there too. too. too. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> You know like and I think a lot of the >> You know like and I think a lot of the >> You know like and I think a lot of the time people stop type one empathy is time people stop type one empathy is time people stop type one empathy is similar to anger. There are a whole similar to anger. There are a whole similar to anger. There are a whole bunch of people who are kind of infected bunch of people who are kind of infected bunch of people who are kind of infected with empathy. There's an entire book with empathy. There's an entire book with empathy. There's an entire book Paul Bloomro called Against Empathy. Paul Bloomro called Against Empathy. Paul Bloomro called Against Empathy. It's like why you shouldn't have it. He It's like why you shouldn't have it. He It's like why you shouldn't have it. He optimizes for something else. But optimizes for something else. But optimizes for something else. But >> it's funny to think about how you might >> it's funny to think about how you might >> it's funny to think about how you might be able to feel somebody else's emotions be able to feel somebody else's emotions be able to feel somebody else's emotions either by choice or not by choice, but either by choice or not by choice, but either by choice or not by choice, but it's much harder to say, I understand it's much harder to say, I understand it's much harder to say, I understand why they arrived at that perspective. I why they arrived at that perspective. I why they arrived at that perspective. I understand how they arrived. Even if I understand how they arrived. Even if I understand how they arrived. Even if I don't hold it myself, it's a different don't hold it myself, it's a different don't hold it myself, it's a different kind of Yeah, maybe empathy is the wrong kind of Yeah, maybe empathy is the wrong kind of Yeah, maybe empathy is the wrong word, but it feels like a the symmetry word, but it feels like a the symmetry word, but it feels like a the symmetry between those two things. Even when you between those two things. Even when you between those two things. Even when you share your opinion on something, the way share your opinion on something, the way share your opinion on something, the way we typically share it is very guarded we typically share it is very guarded we typically share it is very guarded because we're kind of gauging. If it's a because we're kind of gauging. If it's a because we're kind of gauging. If it's a new opinion or something, you don't know new opinion or something, you don't know new opinion or something, you don't know if the room's going to be friendly to if the room's going to be friendly to if the room's going to be friendly to it. You might, for example, hedge, you it. You might, for example, hedge, you it. You might, for example, hedge, you might try and add a lot to show this is might try and add a lot to show this is might try and add a lot to show this is a justified opinion. You have lots of a justified opinion. You have lots of a justified opinion. You have lots of evidence for it. M evidence for it. M evidence for it. M >> so we we come at it >> so we we come at it >> so we we come at it >> already from a very defensive position >> already from a very defensive position >> already from a very defensive position because we say this is my opinion which because we say this is my opinion which because we say this is my opinion which I feel very special and this is my I feel very special and this is my I feel very special and this is my treasured opinion and I'm going to do treasured opinion and I'm going to do treasured opinion and I'm going to do anything I can to protect it. So if you anything I can to protect it. So if you anything I can to protect it. So if you come at it with a different opinion come at it with a different opinion come at it with a different opinion that's unlike mine, well, okay, how can that's unlike mine, well, okay, how can that's unlike mine, well, okay, how can I make sure that I preserve what I I make sure that I preserve what I I make sure that I preserve what I believe to the exclusion of what you believe to the exclusion of what you believe to the exclusion of what you believe? And so how do I do that? It's believe? And so how do I do that? It's believe? And so how do I do that? It's like juries and confirmation bias or all like juries and confirmation bias or all like juries and confirmation bias or all kinds of different sympathies that we kinds of different sympathies that we kinds of different sympathies that we have of we usually stick with what we have of we usually stick with what we have of we usually stick with what we know first. And it takes a lot of time know first. And it takes a lot of time know first. And it takes a lot of time and a lot of conversations for us to and a lot of conversations for us to and a lot of conversations for us to change that outlook. And so a lot of the change that outlook. And so a lot of the change that outlook. And so a lot of the times you'll have a jury or juror who times you'll have a jury or juror who times you'll have a jury or juror who makes up their decision within the first makes up their decision within the first makes up their decision within the first three minutes and then all they're doing three minutes and then all they're doing three minutes and then all they're doing is filtering all the evidence that comes is filtering all the evidence that comes is filtering all the evidence that comes forward. forward. forward. >> If you know anybody that hears an >> If you know anybody that hears an >> If you know anybody that hears an opinion or a bad thing that's happened opinion or a bad thing that's happened opinion or a bad thing that's happened in the news about somebody political and in the news about somebody political and in the news about somebody political and they go, "Oh, well, they probably just" they go, "Oh, well, they probably just" they go, "Oh, well, they probably just" and they totally dismiss it and because and they totally dismiss it and because and they totally dismiss it and because like we said, facts and evidence don't like we said, facts and evidence don't like we said, facts and evidence don't matter. Why do you think modern culture matter. Why do you think modern culture matter. Why do you think modern culture is so obsessed with being right, winning is so obsessed with being right, winning is so obsessed with being right, winning debates? Because what of what is our worth if Because what of what is our worth if we're not right? If because we nobody we're not right? If because we nobody we're not right? If because we nobody thinks that they're on the side of thinks that they're on the side of thinks that they're on the side of wrong. Nobody goes into something wrong. Nobody goes into something wrong. Nobody goes into something thinking that they're the enemy or thinking that they're the enemy or thinking that they're the enemy or they're thinking about it the wrong way. they're thinking about it the wrong way. they're thinking about it the wrong way. Nobody wants to go I'm thinking about Nobody wants to go I'm thinking about Nobody wants to go I'm thinking about this the wrong way. Yes, I am. And they this the wrong way. Yes, I am. And they this the wrong way. Yes, I am. And they just stick with that. They all think just stick with that. They all think just stick with that. They all think that they have their own way about it. that they have their own way about it. that they have their own way about it. And so I think we're obsessed about it And so I think we're obsessed about it And so I think we're obsessed about it because what value does one derive from because what value does one derive from because what value does one derive from if we don't feel that we're walking in if we don't feel that we're walking in if we don't feel that we're walking in accordance of either good or evil? accordance of either good or evil? accordance of either good or evil? Yeah, I've had a lot of communication Yeah, I've had a lot of communication Yeah, I've had a lot of communication experts on talking about detecting experts on talking about detecting experts on talking about detecting deception. deception. deception. >> What's realistic and true about working >> What's realistic and true about working >> What's realistic and true about working out whether someone's lying to you or out whether someone's lying to you or out whether someone's lying to you or not? not? not? >> Evidence. >> Evidence. >> Evidence. >> I mean, if you don't hear >> I mean, if you don't hear >> I mean, if you don't hear >> like a [ __ ] true trial lawyer nerd. >> like a [ __ ] true trial lawyer nerd. >> like a [ __ ] true trial lawyer nerd. >> Yeah. A nerd. Yeah. >> Yeah. A nerd. Yeah. >> Yeah. A nerd. Yeah. >> Yeah. Let's say you don't have that. >> Yeah. Let's say you don't have that. >> Yeah. Let's say you don't have that. Let's say you don't have that. I think I Let's say you don't have that. I think I Let's say you don't have that. I think I it is very hard. There are people who it is very hard. There are people who it is very hard. There are people who are excellent liars. I would say that are excellent liars. I would say that are excellent liars. I would say that liars cannot they love rebuttals. They liars cannot they love rebuttals. They liars cannot they love rebuttals. They hate silence. hate silence. hate silence. And so if they've said something that's And so if they've said something that's And so if they've said something that's a lie and you allow that to sit or you a lie and you allow that to sit or you a lie and you allow that to sit or you say I need to come back to this that say I need to come back to this that say I need to come back to this that that feeling of not being able to accept that feeling of not being able to accept that feeling of not being able to accept it. it. it. Here's a cue that tells you if really Here's a cue that tells you if really Here's a cue that tells you if really somebody is lying is that they can't somebody is lying is that they can't somebody is lying is that they can't stand that you don't believe them. stand that you don't believe them. stand that you don't believe them. People who are telling the truth know People who are telling the truth know People who are telling the truth know it's the truth. And if you don't believe it's the truth. And if you don't believe it's the truth. And if you don't believe it, then well, okay, I'm at peace it, then well, okay, I'm at peace it, then well, okay, I'm at peace because I'm telling the truth. But those because I'm telling the truth. But those because I'm telling the truth. But those who know that it's a lie usually will who know that it's a lie usually will who know that it's a lie usually will have this unproportional response of how have this unproportional response of how have this unproportional response of how dare you not possibly believe me and how dare you not possibly believe me and how dare you not possibly believe me and how could you rather than having the could you rather than having the could you rather than having the confidence of the truth is the truth. confidence of the truth is the truth. confidence of the truth is the truth. Like it the truth needs no excuse, Like it the truth needs no excuse, Like it the truth needs no excuse, right? And so it's this element of those right? And so it's this element of those right? And so it's this element of those that are probably not saying all of the that are probably not saying all of the that are probably not saying all of the truth show up in ways that are they're truth show up in ways that are they're truth show up in ways that are they're going to question you. They're going to going to question you. They're going to going to question you. They're going to ask you what you think ask you what you think ask you what you think >> they should be doing. What what do you >> they should be doing. What what do you >> they should be doing. What what do you what do you think I if I wasn't here? what do you think I if I wasn't here? what do you think I if I wasn't here? What do you think I was doing? You tell What do you think I was doing? You tell What do you think I was doing? You tell me. What do you think? Usually question me. What do you think? Usually question me. What do you think? Usually question it like a very basic question of were it like a very basic question of were it like a very basic question of were you you know did you drink new tonic? you you know did you drink new tonic? you you know did you drink new tonic? Like did I drink Newtonic? Like you've Like did I drink Newtonic? Like you've Like did I drink Newtonic? Like you've >> The answer is always yes. >> The answer is always yes. >> The answer is always yes. >> Yeah. The answer is always yes. You did. >> Yeah. The answer is always yes. You did. >> Yeah. The answer is always yes. You did. Of course. Um, I'm just I'm fueling my Of course. Um, I'm just I'm fueling my Of course. Um, I'm just I'm fueling my focus. focus. focus. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, and and so they question it, they get and and so they question it, they get and and so they question it, they get upset about it, and they usually won't upset about it, and they usually won't upset about it, and they usually won't let it go let it go let it go >> because they they want they would rather >> because they they want they would rather >> because they they want they would rather harm you than be honest. harm you than be honest. harm you than be honest. Yeah, that makes sense. It's almost like Yeah, that makes sense. It's almost like Yeah, that makes sense. It's almost like uh uh uh it's almost like somebody is trying to it's almost like somebody is trying to it's almost like somebody is trying to lay down. It's similar to anger. It's lay down. It's similar to anger. It's lay down. It's similar to anger. It's reminding me the same of this outsized reminding me the same of this outsized reminding me the same of this outsized response, response, response, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> This uh overly dramatic, >> This uh overly dramatic, >> This uh overly dramatic, >> well, how could you? Yeah. The >> well, how could you? Yeah. The >> well, how could you? Yeah. The indignation that comes with that. But I indignation that comes with that. But I indignation that comes with that. But I can see times I can imagine a lot of can see times I can imagine a lot of can see times I can imagine a lot of times where it go times where it go times where it go >> what do you mean? Like yes, that thing >> what do you mean? Like yes, that thing >> what do you mean? Like yes, that thing happened. happened. happened. >> Yes. How do you not see? Because so >> Yes. How do you not see? Because so >> Yes. How do you not see? Because so indignation is a useful tool, right? indignation is a useful tool, right? indignation is a useful tool, right? Because it actually mirrors what you Because it actually mirrors what you Because it actually mirrors what you would do if you were telling the truth. would do if you were telling the truth. would do if you were telling the truth. So it's like So it's like So it's like >> I I really wasn't doing that thing. But >> I I really wasn't doing that thing. But >> I I really wasn't doing that thing. But I mean I mean I mean >> I find that in indignation is very much >> I find that in indignation is very much >> I find that in indignation is very much related to fear. Like it's it's all tied related to fear. Like it's it's all tied related to fear. Like it's it's all tied to something of I'm not I'm not enough. to something of I'm not I'm not enough. to something of I'm not I'm not enough. I'm not being believed. I have no I'm not being believed. I have no I'm not being believed. I have no >> I have no worth. What am I doing? >> I have no worth. What am I doing? >> I have no worth. What am I doing? >> And so it goes back to that idea of the >> And so it goes back to that idea of the >> And so it goes back to that idea of the truth is the truth for me. You can truth is the truth for me. You can truth is the truth for me. You can choose to take it or or choose to not. choose to take it or or choose to not. choose to take it or or choose to not. But I can't I can't make you believe But I can't I can't make you believe But I can't I can't make you believe that. But I know what I'm living with that. But I know what I'm living with that. But I know what I'm living with and I'm living with a clear conscience and I'm living with a clear conscience and I'm living with a clear conscience here. And should you not believe it, here. And should you not believe it, here. And should you not believe it, that's that's your choice. But the ones that's that's your choice. But the ones that's that's your choice. But the ones who are not being fully honest, who are not being fully honest, who are not being fully honest, they know that they're not and they know they know that they're not and they know they know that they're not and they know what they're living with and they know what they're living with and they know what they're living with and they know what's true and what's not true. And what's true and what's not true. And what's true and what's not true. And usually some little bit of signs is usually some little bit of signs is usually some little bit of signs is they'll start to question it and they they'll start to question it and they they'll start to question it and they have this very unregulated response. have this very unregulated response. have this very unregulated response. >> Ruptures hurt relationships a lot. What >> Ruptures hurt relationships a lot. What >> Ruptures hurt relationships a lot. What does gold standard repair look like to does gold standard repair look like to does gold standard repair look like to you? How do people come back together you? How do people come back together you? How do people come back together after an argument? after an argument? after an argument? This is big. Um, This is big. Um, This is big. Um, and my wife and I, we have kind of set and my wife and I, we have kind of set and my wife and I, we have kind of set up, we did this a few weeks ago, of like up, we did this a few weeks ago, of like up, we did this a few weeks ago, of like a system of for us as a couple, how do a system of for us as a couple, how do a system of for us as a couple, how do how best can I show up for her and she how best can I show up for her and she how best can I show up for her and she show up for me when it comes to repair? show up for me when it comes to repair? show up for me when it comes to repair? >> You've been together for 15 years. >> You've been together for 15 years. >> You've been together for 15 years. >> Yeah, but still even, >> Yeah, but still even, >> Yeah, but still even, >> dude, it's it's Wait. Just wait. All >> dude, it's it's Wait. Just wait. All >> dude, it's it's Wait. Just wait. All right. It's it has time means nothing. I right. It's it has time means nothing. I right. It's it has time means nothing. I just assumed given your professional just assumed given your professional just assumed given your professional career that this might have been a a career that this might have been a a career that this might have been a a year three or four or five thing. year three or four or five thing. year three or four or five thing. >> Why do you think I learned all of this? >> Why do you think I learned all of this? >> Why do you think I learned all of this? It's because I made a lot of mistakes, It's because I made a lot of mistakes, It's because I made a lot of mistakes, man. Yeah. This this is all part of it's man. Yeah. This this is all part of it's man. Yeah. This this is all part of it's either you know this information or any either you know this information or any either you know this information or any information either because you learned information either because you learned information either because you learned at a great personal cost and risk or at a great personal cost and risk or at a great personal cost and risk or you're just making it up and like I I've you're just making it up and like I I've you're just making it up and like I I've learned all this because of my life learned all this because of my life learned all this because of my life experience. experience. experience. >> Research is me search as they say. >> Research is me search as they say. >> Research is me search as they say. >> Yeah, that's exactly right. And so, >> Yeah, that's exactly right. And so, >> Yeah, that's exactly right. And so, yeah, we've done smatterings of things, yeah, we've done smatterings of things, yeah, we've done smatterings of things, but we decided to actually put something but we decided to actually put something but we decided to actually put something down. And I'd say the number one thing down. And I'd say the number one thing down. And I'd say the number one thing you have to do to kind of come back from you have to do to kind of come back from you have to do to kind of come back from an argument is number one, ownership. an argument is number one, ownership. an argument is number one, ownership. You need to own what you said or own You need to own what you said or own You need to own what you said or own what you did. It's the element of I did what you did. It's the element of I did what you did. It's the element of I did that. I said this. Not trying to look, I that. I said this. Not trying to look, I that. I said this. Not trying to look, I did this because you did. That that's did this because you did. That that's did this because you did. That that's gets no points. Zero score. that doesn't gets no points. Zero score. that doesn't gets no points. Zero score. that doesn't doesn't help you at all when you start doesn't help you at all when you start doesn't help you at all when you start to you know well if you hadn't have said to you know well if you hadn't have said to you know well if you hadn't have said this I wouldn't have like that's toxic this I wouldn't have like that's toxic this I wouldn't have like that's toxic and that's no good if it's a full you and that's no good if it's a full you and that's no good if it's a full you got to take it on the chin ownership hey got to take it on the chin ownership hey got to take it on the chin ownership hey what I said what I said what I said not cool what I said I own that I did not cool what I said I own that I did not cool what I said I own that I did say this and it's a true apology say this and it's a true apology say this and it's a true apology and then you have to do go into this and then you have to do go into this and then you have to do go into this element of element of element of acknowledgement and affirmation meaning I can only imagine that that made you I can only imagine that that made you feel hurt, that made you feel upset, feel hurt, that made you feel upset, feel hurt, that made you feel upset, that made you feel less than, that made that made you feel less than, that made that made you feel less than, that made you question, you know, my my feelings, you question, you know, my my feelings, you question, you know, my my feelings, whatever it is. You have to kind of feel whatever it is. You have to kind of feel whatever it is. You have to kind of feel the feelings from their perspective of the feelings from their perspective of the feelings from their perspective of what you would assume. You probably what you would assume. You probably what you would assume. You probably >> emotional stealing. >> emotional stealing. >> emotional stealing. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It this this >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It this this >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It this this I imagine that they made you feel like I imagine that they made you feel like I imagine that they made you feel like this or of course you'd be upset about this or of course you'd be upset about this or of course you'd be upset about this. I could Why wouldn't you be upset this. I could Why wouldn't you be upset this. I could Why wouldn't you be upset about that? Yeah. I said something big. about that? Yeah. I said something big. about that? Yeah. I said something big. And then three, it's the element of And then three, it's the element of And then three, it's the element of we're still a team. I'm still working we're still a team. I'm still working we're still a team. I'm still working towards this. You kind of have to have towards this. You kind of have to have towards this. You kind of have to have this element of hope where it's we're this element of hope where it's we're this element of hope where it's we're going to still continue to work this going to still continue to work this going to still continue to work this out. We're going to continue to get out. We're going to continue to get out. We're going to continue to get better at this. You got to you got to better at this. You got to you got to better at this. You got to you got to keep working through it. And it's keep working through it. And it's keep working through it. And it's depending on what you did, there's got depending on what you did, there's got depending on what you did, there's got to be apologies, of course. >> I wonder whether most relationship >> I wonder whether most relationship failure is just bad communication. failure is just bad communication. failure is just bad communication. Obviously, there's incompatibilities. Obviously, there's incompatibilities. Obviously, there's incompatibilities. There's fundamental fundamental problems There's fundamental fundamental problems There's fundamental fundamental problems that are insurmountable. There's a line that are insurmountable. There's a line that are insurmountable. There's a line from Visakhan Verasami. He calls it uh from Visakhan Verasami. He calls it uh from Visakhan Verasami. He calls it uh the divorce paradox. Says, "Why is it the divorce paradox. Says, "Why is it the divorce paradox. Says, "Why is it that so many people separate from that so many people separate from that so many people separate from someone who seemed to be their favorite someone who seemed to be their favorite someone who seemed to be their favorite person?" person?" person?" >> And it's because bad times are a far >> And it's because bad times are a far >> And it's because bad times are a far better predictor of relationship better predictor of relationship better predictor of relationship longevity than good times are. longevity than good times are. longevity than good times are. >> It's how you deal with disagreement, not >> It's how you deal with disagreement, not >> It's how you deal with disagreement, not how you enjoy wonder how you enjoy wonder how you enjoy wonder >> that determines relationship longevity. >> that determines relationship longevity. >> that determines relationship longevity. Very few people have ended a Very few people have ended a Very few people have ended a relationship relationship relationship because there were insufficient peak because there were insufficient peak because there were insufficient peak moments when you compare them to the moments when you compare them to the moments when you compare them to the number of people who've ended number of people who've ended number of people who've ended relationships because there were far too relationships because there were far too relationships because there were far too many bad ones. many bad ones. many bad ones. >> Too much rupture without repair as >> Too much rupture without repair as >> Too much rupture without repair as opposed to too little skydiving with a opposed to too little skydiving with a opposed to too little skydiving with a parachute. parachute. parachute. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I believe that the >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I believe that the >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I believe that the quality of the relationship quality of the relationship quality of the relationship doesn't depend on how good are the good doesn't depend on how good are the good doesn't depend on how good are the good times. It's can you be with them through times. It's can you be with them through times. It's can you be with them through the the bad times or the bad times? the the bad times or the bad times? the the bad times or the bad times? >> Yeah. Exactly. The hard the really hard >> Yeah. Exactly. The hard the really hard >> Yeah. Exactly. The hard the really hard conversations because that's those are conversations because that's those are conversations because that's those are invitations to grow deeper together, to invitations to grow deeper together, to invitations to grow deeper together, to bond more, to get closer together, to be bond more, to get closer together, to be bond more, to get closer together, to be known, to be fully known with that known, to be fully known with that known, to be fully known with that person. You don't get that in the first person. You don't get that in the first person. You don't get that in the first few dates. You get that in the 15-year few dates. You get that in the 15-year few dates. You get that in the 15-year knockdown dragout, who am I? What am I knockdown dragout, who am I? What am I knockdown dragout, who am I? What am I doing conversations? That's where you doing conversations? That's where you doing conversations? That's where you get to see really what's what's there get to see really what's what's there get to see really what's what's there inside. I mean, you you have to find the inside. I mean, you you have to find the inside. I mean, you you have to find the bottom to know what's how far you can go bottom to know what's how far you can go bottom to know what's how far you can go up. up. up. >> What have you come to believe about >> What have you come to believe about >> What have you come to believe about choosing a good partner? choosing a good partner? choosing a good partner? >> That is hard work. >> That is hard work. >> That is hard work. Doesn't matter even if you're somebody Doesn't matter even if you're somebody Doesn't matter even if you're somebody who talks about communication or you're who talks about communication or you're who talks about communication or you're somebody for however long you've been somebody for however long you've been somebody for however long you've been married. It's it's hard work. I I don't married. It's it's hard work. I I don't married. It's it's hard work. I I don't know anybody that has been in a know anybody that has been in a know anybody that has been in a long-term relationship or finding their long-term relationship or finding their long-term relationship or finding their person. Of course, you want somebody who person. Of course, you want somebody who person. Of course, you want somebody who you can be a friend with and you can by you can be a friend with and you can by you can be a friend with and you can by somebody you can be vulnerable with. somebody you can be vulnerable with. somebody you can be vulnerable with. Um, but more importantly, you need to Um, but more importantly, you need to Um, but more importantly, you need to have somebody that you communicate well have somebody that you communicate well have somebody that you communicate well with. with. with. If you don't have communication right, If you don't have communication right, If you don't have communication right, to me, that's a that's a relationship to me, that's a that's a relationship to me, that's a that's a relationship that's not going to have longevity to it that's not going to have longevity to it that's not going to have longevity to it because because because it feels good in the moment, but in year it feels good in the moment, but in year it feels good in the moment, but in year six, year seven, year 10, you had kids six, year seven, year 10, you had kids six, year seven, year 10, you had kids into the mix. That didn't help into the mix. That didn't help into the mix. That didn't help conversation. It's It puts conversation conversation. It's It puts conversation conversation. It's It puts conversation problems on steroids. Now every little problems on steroids. Now every little problems on steroids. Now every little fissure and crack gets highlighted and fissure and crack gets highlighted and fissure and crack gets highlighted and it's more stress. And then you got kids it's more stress. And then you got kids it's more stress. And then you got kids schedules and somebody's got soccer schedules and somebody's got soccer schedules and somebody's got soccer practice and somebody has a dentist practice and somebody has a dentist practice and somebody has a dentist appointment and then things just get appointment and then things just get appointment and then things just get it's it's way way harder in that it's it's way way harder in that it's it's way way harder in that element. And so you have to have element. And so you have to have element. And so you have to have somebody who communicates well with you. somebody who communicates well with you. somebody who communicates well with you. And honestly, Chris, somebody who can And honestly, Chris, somebody who can And honestly, Chris, somebody who can put up with your ugly. Somebody who cuz put up with your ugly. Somebody who cuz put up with your ugly. Somebody who cuz you're going to have those just moments you're going to have those just moments you're going to have those just moments where it's not a good look. Just not a where it's not a good look. Just not a where it's not a good look. Just not a good look. good look. good look. >> That wasn't me at my best. >> That wasn't me at my best. >> That wasn't me at my best. >> Yeah. Yeah. And And they know that. >> Yeah. Yeah. And And they know that. >> Yeah. Yeah. And And they know that. >> They They're not going to punish you for >> They They're not going to punish you for >> They They're not going to punish you for it. They know it wasn't. it. They know it wasn't. it. They know it wasn't. >> And they're going to choose that their >> And they're going to choose that their >> And they're going to choose that their love is big enough for that bad moment. love is big enough for that bad moment. love is big enough for that bad moment. And know that it's not always going to And know that it's not always going to And know that it's not always going to be that bad moment. But at the same be that bad moment. But at the same be that bad moment. But at the same time, they're going to expect you to time, they're going to expect you to time, they're going to expect you to come out of it and go, "Yeah, I could come out of it and go, "Yeah, I could come out of it and go, "Yeah, I could handle that better." handle that better." handle that better." >> Not blame them for your bad moment. >> Not blame them for your bad moment. >> Not blame them for your bad moment. >> What's the most fascinating thing about >> What's the most fascinating thing about >> What's the most fascinating thing about being a trial lawyer that you've learned being a trial lawyer that you've learned being a trial lawyer that you've learned after spending so much time in it that after spending so much time in it that after spending so much time in it that people from outside of your industry people from outside of your industry people from outside of your industry don't know or don't understand? don't know or don't understand? don't know or don't understand? But it's different in the sense of But it's different in the sense of But it's different in the sense of you're having to have you're having to have you're having to have like, you know, the movie Inception like, you know, the movie Inception like, you know, the movie Inception >> Dev. >> Dev. >> Dev. >> Okay. Like who doesn't? It's it's like >> Okay. Like who doesn't? It's it's like >> Okay. Like who doesn't? It's it's like you're you're having a conversation you're you're having a conversation you're you're having a conversation within a conversation. I'm having to within a conversation. I'm having to within a conversation. I'm having to prove a point within a point. And so prove a point within a point. And so prove a point within a point. And so I am hired to have problems with I am hired to have problems with I am hired to have problems with somebody I don't have problems with. somebody I don't have problems with. somebody I don't have problems with. Right? Right? Right? >> And all of a sudden, their problems have >> And all of a sudden, their problems have >> And all of a sudden, their problems have now become mine. And now I'm advocating now become mine. And now I'm advocating now become mine. And now I'm advocating on their behalf. I'm being their voice. on their behalf. I'm being their voice. on their behalf. I'm being their voice. And now this other person's hired And now this other person's hired And now this other person's hired somebody to have problems with me, somebody to have problems with me, somebody to have problems with me, right? And so it's now attorneys arguing right? And so it's now attorneys arguing right? And so it's now attorneys arguing secondhand removed from the people who secondhand removed from the people who secondhand removed from the people who are actually in the conflict. are actually in the conflict. are actually in the conflict. >> And then now I'm going to present this >> And then now I'm going to present this >> And then now I'm going to present this case to 12 people in a judge in a case to 12 people in a judge in a case to 12 people in a judge in a courtroom of what case should be left courtroom of what case should be left courtroom of what case should be left standing. Now it depends on the facts in standing. Now it depends on the facts in standing. Now it depends on the facts in the case and everything else, but you the case and everything else, but you the case and everything else, but you are having to have a conversation are having to have a conversation are having to have a conversation that is not even being said. For that is not even being said. For that is not even being said. For example, as soon as you walk into the example, as soon as you walk into the example, as soon as you walk into the courtroom, all eyes are on you. If you courtroom, all eyes are on you. If you courtroom, all eyes are on you. If you hear a piece of evidence that's bad for hear a piece of evidence that's bad for hear a piece of evidence that's bad for you and I go, you and I go, you and I go, what does that tell the jury? You go, what does that tell the jury? You go, what does that tell the jury? You go, "Oh, this must be really bad for them." "Oh, this must be really bad for them." "Oh, this must be really bad for them." But if I stay calm and controlled as if But if I stay calm and controlled as if But if I stay calm and controlled as if like, "Yeah, I expected to hear that." like, "Yeah, I expected to hear that." like, "Yeah, I expected to hear that." Doesn't doesn't hit that way. Doesn't doesn't hit that way. Doesn't doesn't hit that way. >> Regardless of whether you did or not. >> Regardless of whether you did or not. >> Regardless of whether you did or not. >> Exactly. And then even when I've seen >> Exactly. And then even when I've seen >> Exactly. And then even when I've seen this a lot where if anybody's been in this a lot where if anybody's been in this a lot where if anybody's been in jury, they've seen attorneys approach jury, they've seen attorneys approach jury, they've seen attorneys approach the bench, council approach the bench the bench, council approach the bench the bench, council approach the bench and they come up and they usually play and they come up and they usually play and they come up and they usually play some kind of noise, white noise, some kind of noise, white noise, some kind of noise, white noise, something to where you can't hear what something to where you can't hear what something to where you can't hear what the judges and the attorneys are saying. the judges and the attorneys are saying. the judges and the attorneys are saying. >> No way. >> No way. >> No way. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, that's fun. >> Oh, that's fun. >> Oh, that's fun. >> And so >> And so >> And so >> they should put some tunes on instead. >> they should put some tunes on instead. >> they should put some tunes on instead. >> They they really should play some Cardi >> They they really should play some Cardi >> They they really should play some Cardi B or something. B or something. B or something. >> Oh, I think that would be that'd be >> Oh, I think that would be that'd be >> Oh, I think that would be that'd be pretty baller. That would be pretty pretty baller. That would be pretty pretty baller. That would be pretty cool. Uh you're cool. Uh you're cool. Uh you're >> up there and you're like, >> up there and you're like, >> up there and you're like, >> "Yeah, just some Kendrick." Yeah. Um, >> "Yeah, just some Kendrick." Yeah. Um, >> "Yeah, just some Kendrick." Yeah. Um, and so and so and so you you're talking and they always say you you're talking and they always say you you're talking and they always say it's they watch who leaves and the it's they watch who leaves and the it's they watch who leaves and the reaction of the attorneys because reaction of the attorneys because reaction of the attorneys because usually the judge is ruling on something usually the judge is ruling on something usually the judge is ruling on something that the jury can't hear on. It's it's a that the jury can't hear on. It's it's a that the jury can't hear on. It's it's a matter of law that would sway the case. matter of law that would sway the case. matter of law that would sway the case. And if the attorney is walking away And if the attorney is walking away And if the attorney is walking away defeated, they go, "Oh, something must defeated, they go, "Oh, something must defeated, they go, "Oh, something must have happened." Or if the attorney is have happened." Or if the attorney is have happened." Or if the attorney is always objecting, that's the worst. You always objecting, that's the worst. You always objecting, that's the worst. You have to be really selective with your have to be really selective with your have to be really selective with your objections. So, let's say a witness is objections. So, let's say a witness is objections. So, let's say a witness is about to say something and I it seems about to say something and I it seems about to say something and I it seems like it'd be something big and I stand like it'd be something big and I stand like it'd be something big and I stand up and I object and the judge sustains up and I object and the judge sustains up and I object and the judge sustains it and they skip to the testimony. They it and they skip to the testimony. They it and they skip to the testimony. They go, "Oh, he he's hiding something from go, "Oh, he he's hiding something from go, "Oh, he he's hiding something from me. He must not want me to know me. He must not want me to know me. He must not want me to know everything." So, what is this? What am I everything." So, what is this? What am I everything." So, what is this? What am I teaching? I'm saying you are teaching? I'm saying you are teaching? I'm saying you are >> you you are having a conversation all >> you you are having a conversation all >> you you are having a conversation all with your body language, your whole with your body language, your whole with your body language, your whole presence, how calm and controlled you presence, how calm and controlled you presence, how calm and controlled you are. How can you be the most credible in are. How can you be the most credible in are. How can you be the most credible in the room without have nothing to do with the room without have nothing to do with the room without have nothing to do with the actual facts of the case? And you do the actual facts of the case? And you do the actual facts of the case? And you do that a lot by being the person who they that a lot by being the person who they that a lot by being the person who they go, that person's telling me the truth. go, that person's telling me the truth. go, that person's telling me the truth. That's a truth teller. I can tell by how That's a truth teller. I can tell by how That's a truth teller. I can tell by how confident, controlled, measured they confident, controlled, measured they confident, controlled, measured they are. They don't seem like they're are. They don't seem like they're are. They don't seem like they're worried and anxious about every little worried and anxious about every little worried and anxious about every little thing the witness is going to say. thing the witness is going to say. thing the witness is going to say. >> Which is interesting because that can be >> Which is interesting because that can be >> Which is interesting because that can be taught and engineered taught and engineered taught and engineered >> to a large margin. Mhm. >> to a large margin. Mhm. >> to a large margin. Mhm. >> So, it's just levels of deception that >> So, it's just levels of deception that >> So, it's just levels of deception that are more sophisticated than the levels are more sophisticated than the levels are more sophisticated than the levels of detection. of detection. of detection. >> And and the thing is, it exists in every >> And and the thing is, it exists in every >> And and the thing is, it exists in every conversation, not just in the courtroom. conversation, not just in the courtroom. conversation, not just in the courtroom. >> I mean, dude, look at UFC fights and >> I mean, dude, look at UFC fights and >> I mean, dude, look at UFC fights and boxing fights that go the distance. boxing fights that go the distance. boxing fights that go the distance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Both fighters put their hand up, >> Both fighters put their hand up, >> Both fighters put their hand up, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Oh, yeah. Exactly. At the very end, >> Oh, yeah. Exactly. At the very end, >> Oh, yeah. Exactly. At the very end, >> it's the exact same as you walking away >> it's the exact same as you walking away >> it's the exact same as you walking away from the bench. You might as well you from the bench. You might as well you from the bench. You might as well you might actually next time do this for me. might actually next time do this for me. might actually next time do this for me. See if it works. I'll try it, dude. If See if it works. I'll try it, dude. If See if it works. I'll try it, dude. If it works, I that it works, I that it works, I that >> I'll give you all the credit. Thank you. >> I'll give you all the credit. Thank you. >> I'll give you all the credit. Thank you. That's good. Okay. So, That's good. Okay. So, That's good. Okay. So, lots of different techniques around lots of different techniques around lots of different techniques around communication. At least for me, the main communication. At least for me, the main communication. At least for me, the main thing that the main thing that I'm thing that the main thing that I'm thing that the main thing that I'm taking away or one of the main things taking away or one of the main things taking away or one of the main things I'm taking away is a degree of I'm taking away is a degree of I'm taking away is a degree of consideration for the other person. That consideration for the other person. That consideration for the other person. That seems to be like a real through line seems to be like a real through line seems to be like a real through line with a lot of what we're going on here with a lot of what we're going on here with a lot of what we're going on here that that that >> um >> um >> um holding your ground, being assertive, holding your ground, being assertive, holding your ground, being assertive, >> and also being understanding about what >> and also being understanding about what >> and also being understanding about what what we're doing here. what we're doing here. what we're doing here. That kind of consideration is important. That kind of consideration is important. That kind of consideration is important. If there's one principle that people If there's one principle that people If there's one principle that people should hold on to when it comes to good should hold on to when it comes to good should hold on to when it comes to good interpersonal communication, what would interpersonal communication, what would interpersonal communication, what would it be? One conversation is typically not One conversation is typically not enough. enough. enough. You need a lot of them. You need a lot of them. You need a lot of them. meaning meaning meaning we put a lot of pressure on one single we put a lot of pressure on one single we put a lot of pressure on one single conversation and that that increases the conversation and that that increases the conversation and that that increases the anxiety, increases the the fear of the anxiety, increases the the fear of the anxiety, increases the the fear of the moment that I'm going to say the wrong moment that I'm going to say the wrong moment that I'm going to say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing. And you're thing, do the wrong thing. And you're thing, do the wrong thing. And you're putting hype on a conversation that putting hype on a conversation that putting hype on a conversation that didn't need to have that kind of hype on didn't need to have that kind of hype on didn't need to have that kind of hype on it because really it should be the it because really it should be the it because really it should be the opposite. It should be a, hey, I'm opposite. It should be a, hey, I'm opposite. It should be a, hey, I'm talking to you about this because you talking to you about this because you talking to you about this because you matter a lot to me and at the end of matter a lot to me and at the end of matter a lot to me and at the end of this, we're still going to be best this, we're still going to be best this, we're still going to be best friends and we're still going to go to friends and we're still going to go to friends and we're still going to go to dinner together tonight and we're still dinner together tonight and we're still dinner together tonight and we're still going to do X, Y, and Z. I just because going to do X, Y, and Z. I just because going to do X, Y, and Z. I just because I love you, I need to tell you this. I love you, I need to tell you this. I love you, I need to tell you this. This is what's on my heart. You see how This is what's on my heart. You see how This is what's on my heart. You see how that's rather than me trying to push that's rather than me trying to push that's rather than me trying to push everything at once versus everything at once versus everything at once versus if I were to say, if I were to say, if I were to say, I'd like to, let's say it's a big big I'd like to, let's say it's a big big I'd like to, let's say it's a big big important thing that needs to take some important thing that needs to take some important thing that needs to take some time. Hey, I'd like to have a time. Hey, I'd like to have a time. Hey, I'd like to have a conversation with you over the next few conversation with you over the next few conversation with you over the next few weeks. I'd like to have a conversation weeks. I'd like to have a conversation weeks. I'd like to have a conversation over this month to talk about X, Y, and over this month to talk about X, Y, and over this month to talk about X, Y, and Z. Whenever you say that this is a Z. Whenever you say that this is a Z. Whenever you say that this is a conversation that's going to take some conversation that's going to take some conversation that's going to take some time, it automatically lowers time, it automatically lowers time, it automatically lowers everybody's anxiety rather than you everybody's anxiety rather than you everybody's anxiety rather than you having to decide this is the moment having to decide this is the moment having to decide this is the moment right here. Choose to be with me, not be right here. Choose to be with me, not be right here. Choose to be with me, not be with me. Where are we doing? What are we with me. Where are we doing? What are we with me. Where are we doing? What are we not doing? It it heights that what if I not doing? It it heights that what if I not doing? It it heights that what if I get it wrong feeling. And there's a lot get it wrong feeling. And there's a lot get it wrong feeling. And there's a lot of times there's more conversation that of times there's more conversation that of times there's more conversation that that needs to be had. Another I'd say is that needs to be had. Another I'd say is that needs to be had. Another I'd say is it's it's that element of having it's it's that element of having it's it's that element of having something to learn, not something to something to learn, not something to something to learn, not something to prove. When you feel like you have to prove. When you feel like you have to prove. When you feel like you have to prove my point. prove my point. prove my point. People who have something to prove are People who have something to prove are People who have something to prove are the ones that always have to push their the ones that always have to push their the ones that always have to push their opinion. How dare you believe what you opinion. How dare you believe what you opinion. How dare you believe what you believe and not what I how dare you have believe and not what I how dare you have believe and not what I how dare you have an idea that's not mine and go with an idea that's not mine and go with an idea that's not mine and go with something else versus questioning in a something else versus questioning in a something else versus questioning in a very curious way. That's well like you very curious way. That's well like you very curious way. That's well like you said which I like is that perspective said which I like is that perspective said which I like is that perspective seeking. How can I seeking. How can I seeking. How can I how can I encourage the pursuit of how can I encourage the pursuit of how can I encourage the pursuit of perspective? Yeah. How can I get really perspective? Yeah. How can I get really perspective? Yeah. How can I get really disciplined on knowing where your disciplined on knowing where your disciplined on knowing where your thoughts come from? Where did you learn thoughts come from? Where did you learn thoughts come from? Where did you learn it? How long have you believed it? Where it? How long have you believed it? Where it? How long have you believed it? Where did that originate? Is that something did that originate? Is that something did that originate? Is that something you taught yourself or is that something you taught yourself or is that something you taught yourself or is that something you came across from really hardship? you came across from really hardship? you came across from really hardship? >> And the more you give people time to >> And the more you give people time to >> And the more you give people time to share with that, the more they're going share with that, the more they're going share with that, the more they're going to open up to you and realize you are a to open up to you and realize you are a to open up to you and realize you are a safe place for to share these kinds of safe place for to share these kinds of safe place for to share these kinds of things and not harden up. things and not harden up. things and not harden up. >> Dude, you're great. Let's bring this one >> Dude, you're great. Let's bring this one >> Dude, you're great. Let's bring this one home. Appreciate the heck out of you. home. Appreciate the heck out of you. home. Appreciate the heck out of you. Where should people go to check out Where should people go to check out Where should people go to check out everything that you've got going on? and everything that you've got going on? and everything that you've got going on? and go to jeffersonfishing.com or social go to jeffersonfishing.com or social go to jeffersonfishing.com or social media Jefferson Fisher. media Jefferson Fisher. media Jefferson Fisher. >> Beautiful. Thanks, man. >> Beautiful. Thanks, man. >> Beautiful. Thanks, man. >> Denny's Cheesecake Factory. What do you >> Denny's Cheesecake Factory. What do you >> Denny's Cheesecake Factory. What do you think? think? think? >> Let's Yeah, let's do that. So, I think >> Let's Yeah, let's do that. So, I think >> Let's Yeah, let's do that. So, I think um you go Outback. You go Outback. Is um you go Outback. You go Outback. Is um you go Outback. You go Outback. Is that like that like that like >> steakhouse? >> steakhouse? >> steakhouse? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, sure. Let's do >> Yeah, sure. Let's do >> Yeah, sure. Let's do >> Okay. Like a lemon onion or something? >> Okay. Like a lemon onion or something? >> Okay. Like a lemon onion or something? >> Cool. All right. Goodbye, everybody. >> Cool. All right. Goodbye, everybody. >> Cool. All right. Goodbye, everybody. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, YouTube knows you enjoyed that episode, YouTube knows you enjoyed that episode, YouTube knows who you are deeply. It thinks you're who you are deeply. It thinks you're who you are deeply. It thinks you're going to like this one even more. going to like this one even more. going to like this one even more. Come on, press