How to find your thing

Dude, when you use the word stack, I get Dude, when you use the word stack, I get all fired up. Dude, why don't we just all fired up. Dude, why don't we just all fired up. Dude, why don't we just describe our podcast that way? Us, describe our podcast that way? Us, describe our podcast that way? Us, founders, acquired. It's the most potent founders, acquired. It's the most potent founders, acquired. It's the most potent stack of the [laughter] top entrepreneur stack of the [laughter] top entrepreneur stack of the [laughter] top entrepreneur boosting for founders. All right, so Sam, I was in Austin last All right, so Sam, I was in Austin last week and I was at a restaurant. So, week and I was at a restaurant. So, week and I was at a restaurant. So, we're sitting down at the table, guy we're sitting down at the table, guy we're sitting down at the table, guy comes up and he's a fan of the podcast comes up and he's a fan of the podcast comes up and he's a fan of the podcast and he says, "Hi." And he was like, "Oh, and he says, "Hi." And he was like, "Oh, and he says, "Hi." And he was like, "Oh, yeah, I love the episodes you and Sam, yeah, I love the episodes you and Sam, yeah, I love the episodes you and Sam, blah blah blah." And I asked him, I go, blah blah blah." And I asked him, I go, blah blah blah." And I asked him, I go, "What's one thing you want us to talk "What's one thing you want us to talk "What's one thing you want us to talk about? We're getting a We're almost a about? We're getting a We're almost a about? We're getting a We're almost a thousand episodes in. We need a little thousand episodes in. We need a little thousand episodes in. We need a little inspiration." And so, I said, "What's inspiration." And so, I said, "What's inspiration." And so, I said, "What's one thing you want us to talk about?" He one thing you want us to talk about?" He one thing you want us to talk about?" He goes, "Well, I don't know what other goes, "Well, I don't know what other goes, "Well, I don't know what other people want, but here's what I want." people want, but here's what I want." people want, but here's what I want." And he told me he's he's 24 years old. And he told me he's he's 24 years old. And he told me he's he's 24 years old. He's like, "I know I'm smart. I know I'm He's like, "I know I'm smart. I know I'm He's like, "I know I'm smart. I know I'm hard working. I just don't know kind of hard working. I just don't know kind of hard working. I just don't know kind of which lane to go in. I'm ready to swim, which lane to go in. I'm ready to swim, which lane to go in. I'm ready to swim, but I don't know which lane to go in." but I don't know which lane to go in." but I don't know which lane to go in." And what he said was he's like, you And what he said was he's like, you And what he said was he's like, you know, basically the generic advice is know, basically the generic advice is know, basically the generic advice is like, "Oh, just follow your passion." like, "Oh, just follow your passion." like, "Oh, just follow your passion." And he basically described this problem, And he basically described this problem, And he basically described this problem, which is like, "I've been in school. My which is like, "I've been in school. My which is like, "I've been in school. My teachers, my parents, like I was told teachers, my parents, like I was told teachers, my parents, like I was told what to do. You got to take these what to do. You got to take these what to do. You got to take these classes, you got to get take these classes, you got to get take these classes, you got to get take these tests, you got to get these marks." And tests, you got to get these marks." And tests, you got to get these marks." And that's it's like super structured. All that's it's like super structured. All that's it's like super structured. All of a sudden, graduates, now he's just on of a sudden, graduates, now he's just on of a sudden, graduates, now he's just on his own. So, went from super structured his own. So, went from super structured his own. So, went from super structured to completely unstructured. to completely unstructured. to completely unstructured. And he's like, "I know that I should be And he's like, "I know that I should be And he's like, "I know that I should be doing something. My friends are all doing something. My friends are all doing something. My friends are all doing this. I don't think I want to do doing this. I don't think I want to do doing this. I don't think I want to do that." Banking, consulting type of jobs. that." Banking, consulting type of jobs. that." Banking, consulting type of jobs. And his question was basically, they say And his question was basically, they say And his question was basically, they say follow your passion, but how? How do you follow your passion, but how? How do you follow your passion, but how? How do you actually do that? Like, what would you actually do that? Like, what would you actually do that? Like, what would you guys actually do if you could go back? guys actually do if you could go back? guys actually do if you could go back? So, that's what I wanted to talk about. So, that's what I wanted to talk about. So, that's what I wanted to talk about. Why I think that follow your passion is Why I think that follow your passion is Why I think that follow your passion is terrible advice and what you should do terrible advice and what you should do terrible advice and what you should do instead. Great. I think I will mostly It instead. Great. I think I will mostly It instead. Great. I think I will mostly It sounds like I based off your one-line sounds like I based off your one-line sounds like I based off your one-line response right there, I might agree with response right there, I might agree with response right there, I might agree with you on everything. But, first of all, I you on everything. But, first of all, I you on everything. But, first of all, I want to hear what advice you gave him. want to hear what advice you gave him. want to hear what advice you gave him. But, you told me that you wanted to You But, you told me that you wanted to You But, you told me that you wanted to You also looked at the history of following also looked at the history of following also looked at the history of following your passion. Is that true? your passion. Is that true? your passion. Is that true? Well, I have a historical kind of Well, I have a historical kind of Well, I have a historical kind of reference. So, I was reading this thing reference. So, I was reading this thing reference. So, I was reading this thing by Joseph Campbell. He famously came up by Joseph Campbell. He famously came up by Joseph Campbell. He famously came up with the hero's journey. So, with the hero's journey. So, with the hero's journey. So, this circle that explains how Star Wars this circle that explains how Star Wars this circle that explains how Star Wars works and Harry Potter and all the great works and Harry Potter and all the great works and Harry Potter and all the great stories, they sort of start with the stories, they sort of start with the stories, they sort of start with the same structure. So, this guy, Joseph same structure. So, this guy, Joseph same structure. So, this guy, Joseph Campbell, Campbell, Campbell, he gave a lot of interviews about his he gave a lot of interviews about his he gave a lot of interviews about his philosophy. philosophy. philosophy. And he had this better this phrase that And he had this better this phrase that And he had this better this phrase that I think is a little bit better. It I think is a little bit better. It I think is a little bit better. It sounds a little hokey, but when you sounds a little hokey, but when you sounds a little hokey, but when you explain it, I think it clicks. explain it, I think it clicks. explain it, I think it clicks. And he goes, he started off by saying, And he goes, he started off by saying, And he goes, he started off by saying, "Don't follow your passion, follow your "Don't follow your passion, follow your "Don't follow your passion, follow your bliss." And later he changed it to bliss." And later he changed it to bliss." And later he changed it to follow your blisters. So, he's follow your blisters. So, he's follow your blisters. So, he's explaining and he explains for himself. explaining and he explains for himself. explaining and he explains for himself. He's like, "Oh, you know, for me, the He's like, "Oh, you know, for me, the He's like, "Oh, you know, for me, the way I arrived at this kind of hero's way I arrived at this kind of hero's way I arrived at this kind of hero's journey thing was because when I was a journey thing was because when I was a journey thing was because when I was a kid or, you know, teenager, I was kid or, you know, teenager, I was kid or, you know, teenager, I was obsessed with studying like indigenous obsessed with studying like indigenous obsessed with studying like indigenous tribes and Native American stories and tribes and Native American stories and tribes and Native American stories and myths." And I got really into all these myths." And I got really into all these myths." And I got really into all these different myths. First as a consumer, different myths. First as a consumer, different myths. First as a consumer, then I started to wonder like, "How are then I started to wonder like, "How are then I started to wonder like, "How are all these myths like why are these so all these myths like why are these so all these myths like why are these so Why do I love these so much? What's Why do I love these so much? What's Why do I love these so much? What's What's the structure of these things?" What's the structure of these things?" What's the structure of these things?" And that's how he kind of discovered the And that's how he kind of discovered the And that's how he kind of discovered the story shape that became the hero's story shape that became the hero's story shape that became the hero's journey. When he's talking about bliss, journey. When he's talking about bliss, journey. When he's talking about bliss, he basically made a couple of points. he basically made a couple of points. he basically made a couple of points. And so, let me first break down the the And so, let me first break down the the And so, let me first break down the the problem with passion and then why I problem with passion and then why I problem with passion and then why I think the bliss and blisters thing is think the bliss and blisters thing is think the bliss and blisters thing is better. All right, so here's my case for better. All right, so here's my case for better. All right, so here's my case for why why why passion is maybe the wrong idea. First, passion is maybe the wrong idea. First, passion is maybe the wrong idea. First, raise your hand if you know what your raise your hand if you know what your raise your hand if you know what your passion is. All right, like most people, passion is. All right, like most people, passion is. All right, like most people, 90 plus percent of people do not know 90 plus percent of people do not know 90 plus percent of people do not know their passion. their passion. their passion. >> I >> I >> I So, I'm going to cite Mark Manson a lot So, I'm going to cite Mark Manson a lot So, I'm going to cite Mark Manson a lot in this conversation because he had a in this conversation because he had a in this conversation because he had a podcast called podcast called podcast called what Should you follow your passion or what Should you follow your passion or what Should you follow your passion or not? And I listened to it two weeks ago. not? And I listened to it two weeks ago. not? And I listened to it two weeks ago. I'm 36 years old. Some people might I'm 36 years old. Some people might I'm 36 years old. Some people might regard me as successful. I still don't regard me as successful. I still don't regard me as successful. I still don't know what my passion is. And I And I know what my passion is. And I And I know what my passion is. And I And I think about it all the time. think about it all the time. think about it all the time. >> Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm with you. You're I'm >> Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm with you. You're I'm >> Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm with you. You're I'm always trying to figure it out. I'm always trying to figure it out. I'm always trying to figure it out. I'm perpetually reinventing myself and and perpetually reinventing myself and and perpetually reinventing myself and and starting from scratch and questioning starting from scratch and questioning starting from scratch and questioning what's going on and reinventing myself what's going on and reinventing myself what's going on and reinventing myself for better and for worse. That's been for better and for worse. That's been for better and for worse. That's been the place of some amazing things, of the place of some amazing things, of the place of some amazing things, of some amazing changes in my life, but some amazing changes in my life, but some amazing changes in my life, but it's also a period of great uncertainty. it's also a period of great uncertainty. it's also a period of great uncertainty. And sticking around in the fog of And sticking around in the fog of And sticking around in the fog of uncertainty sucks. It feels shitty when uncertainty sucks. It feels shitty when uncertainty sucks. It feels shitty when you're doing it. And you know, sometimes you're doing it. And you know, sometimes you're doing it. And you know, sometimes I wish I was just one of these people I wish I was just one of these people I wish I was just one of these people who didn't question anything and just who didn't question anything and just who didn't question anything and just sort of just picked a thing and just did sort of just picked a thing and just did sort of just picked a thing and just did it for 50 years, but it's not who I am. it for 50 years, but it's not who I am. it for 50 years, but it's not who I am. And so, if you're somebody who's been in And so, if you're somebody who's been in And so, if you're somebody who's been in this fog of uncertainty, this will sound this fog of uncertainty, this will sound this fog of uncertainty, this will sound familiar. So, familiar. So, familiar. So, what ends up happening is you follow what ends up happening is you follow what ends up happening is you follow your familiar. So, you do what you know. your familiar. So, you do what you know. your familiar. So, you do what you know. You do what you've already done. You do You do what you've already done. You do You do what you've already done. You do what your parents do. You do what your what your parents do. You do what your what your parents do. You do what your friends do. friends do. friends do. And so, what a lot of us do is we And so, what a lot of us do is we And so, what a lot of us do is we mistake what what is familiar for what mistake what what is familiar for what mistake what what is familiar for what actually lights us up. And so, even if actually lights us up. And so, even if actually lights us up. And so, even if you I I had this idea of like you want you I I had this idea of like you want you I I had this idea of like you want to do something, you don't really even to do something, you don't really even to do something, you don't really even know where to look and you feel like and know where to look and you feel like and know where to look and you feel like and while you are searching, it often can while you are searching, it often can while you are searching, it often can feel like you're lost. feel like you're lost. feel like you're lost. And so, even though you're supposed to And so, even though you're supposed to And so, even though you're supposed to be searching, you feel like you're lost be searching, you feel like you're lost be searching, you feel like you're lost during it, which feels like you're doing during it, which feels like you're doing during it, which feels like you're doing something wrong. And so, what do you do something wrong. And so, what do you do something wrong. And so, what do you do instead? All right, so he has this bliss instead? All right, so he has this bliss instead? All right, so he has this bliss and blisters concept. and blisters concept. and blisters concept. Basically, bliss is not meant to be just Basically, bliss is not meant to be just Basically, bliss is not meant to be just like pure like pure like pure joy. It's not meant to be just like joy. It's not meant to be just like joy. It's not meant to be just like euphoria. What he means by bliss is euphoria. What he means by bliss is euphoria. What he means by bliss is basically, what are you enthusiastic basically, what are you enthusiastic basically, what are you enthusiastic about doing? So, using enthusiasm as about doing? So, using enthusiasm as about doing? So, using enthusiasm as your guide. So, this is his criteria. your guide. So, this is his criteria. your guide. So, this is his criteria. So, he said, "Naturally Naturally drawn So, he said, "Naturally Naturally drawn So, he said, "Naturally Naturally drawn to it, it's of interest. You feel alive to it, it's of interest. You feel alive to it, it's of interest. You feel alive when you're doing it. It's often when you're doing it. It's often when you're doing it. It's often irrational and you will lose track of irrational and you will lose track of irrational and you will lose track of time when you find yourself doing it. time when you find yourself doing it. time when you find yourself doing it. And you'll do it in your off hours. So, And you'll do it in your off hours. So, And you'll do it in your off hours. So, you'll do it even You'll do it during you'll do it even You'll do it during you'll do it even You'll do it during the hours when you're normally seeking the hours when you're normally seeking the hours when you're normally seeking kind of like pleasure, relaxation, you kind of like pleasure, relaxation, you kind of like pleasure, relaxation, you know, just sort of an indulgence in know, just sort of an indulgence in know, just sort of an indulgence in yourself. The stuff you find yourself yourself. The stuff you find yourself yourself. The stuff you find yourself doing there that others would see as doing there that others would see as doing there that others would see as work is an important signal." And then, work is an important signal." And then, work is an important signal." And then, so he he started talking about this and so he he started talking about this and so he he started talking about this and people took it the wrong way in his people took it the wrong way in his people took it the wrong way in his opinion. He's like, "I said this thing opinion. He's like, "I said this thing opinion. He's like, "I said this thing about follow your bliss and then about follow your bliss and then about follow your bliss and then everybody just looked for something that everybody just looked for something that everybody just looked for something that just made them happy, pleasurable all just made them happy, pleasurable all just made them happy, pleasurable all the time instantaneously." And he goes, the time instantaneously." And he goes, the time instantaneously." And he goes, "Oh, man, I've made a mistake. It's not "Oh, man, I've made a mistake. It's not "Oh, man, I've made a mistake. It's not that at all." He said he kind of that at all." He said he kind of that at all." He said he kind of offhandedly. It's attributed to him that offhandedly. It's attributed to him that offhandedly. It's attributed to him that he said, "I wish I had said follow your he said, "I wish I had said follow your he said, "I wish I had said follow your blisters instead." blisters instead." blisters instead." And what he means by blisters is And what he means by blisters is And what he means by blisters is basically that basically that basically that there is going to obviously be hardship. there is going to obviously be hardship. there is going to obviously be hardship. In fact, like follow your bliss most of In fact, like follow your bliss most of In fact, like follow your bliss most of the time leads you on a unfamiliar path. the time leads you on a unfamiliar path. the time leads you on a unfamiliar path. You're leaving a place that's safe. You're leaving a place that's safe. You're leaving a place that's safe. You're going to face the dragons, cross You're going to face the dragons, cross You're going to face the dragons, cross the bridges, pay the tolls, pay the the bridges, pay the tolls, pay the the bridges, pay the tolls, pay the price and it was worth it, deeply price and it was worth it, deeply price and it was worth it, deeply satisfying along the way. And blisters satisfying along the way. And blisters satisfying along the way. And blisters this idea of blisters is like on my hand this idea of blisters is like on my hand this idea of blisters is like on my hand right now. I've I have these blisters right now. I've I have these blisters right now. I've I have these blisters because I've been training for this because I've been training for this because I've been training for this Murph and I've been doing pull-ups all Murph and I've been doing pull-ups all Murph and I've been doing pull-ups all the time. So, my hands on both sides the time. So, my hands on both sides the time. So, my hands on both sides just have all these blisters. And if you just have all these blisters. And if you just have all these blisters. And if you think about the idea of blisters, it's a think about the idea of blisters, it's a think about the idea of blisters, it's a it's it's a receipt. It's an evidence of it's it's a receipt. It's an evidence of it's it's a receipt. It's an evidence of a price paid. A price paid over and over a price paid. A price paid over and over a price paid. A price paid over and over and over again that you really couldn't and over again that you really couldn't and over again that you really couldn't force yourself to do just the willpower, force yourself to do just the willpower, force yourself to do just the willpower, but you had to have been actually like but you had to have been actually like but you had to have been actually like pulled to doing it. And so, if you find pulled to doing it. And so, if you find pulled to doing it. And so, if you find evidence where you suffer pain evidence where you suffer pain evidence where you suffer pain willingly, willingly, willingly, that's probably a very good signal. You that's probably a very good signal. You that's probably a very good signal. You are so drawn to doing it that you're are so drawn to doing it that you're are so drawn to doing it that you're even willing to endure the hardships even willing to endure the hardships even willing to endure the hardships that come along the way. That is that come along the way. That is that come along the way. That is ultimately what you're looking for. And ultimately what you're looking for. And ultimately what you're looking for. And so, that's the short idea and this has so, that's the short idea and this has so, that's the short idea and this has been echoed by the way many times over. been echoed by the way many times over. been echoed by the way many times over. So, Paul Graham wrote this long long So, Paul Graham wrote this long long So, Paul Graham wrote this long long essay. I don't know if you ever read it. essay. I don't know if you ever read it. essay. I don't know if you ever read it. It's called How to Do Great Work. It's called How to Do Great Work. It's called How to Do Great Work. Years ago. Years ago. Years ago. It's like it takes you like two days to It's like it takes you like two days to It's like it takes you like two days to read this goddamn blog post, but it's read this goddamn blog post, but it's read this goddamn blog post, but it's great and in it he has this one phrase great and in it he has this one phrase great and in it he has this one phrase that I remember, which is let enthusiasm that I remember, which is let enthusiasm that I remember, which is let enthusiasm be not just the motor, but the rudder of be not just the motor, but the rudder of be not just the motor, but the rudder of your boat. So, basically, enthusiasm is your boat. So, basically, enthusiasm is your boat. So, basically, enthusiasm is obviously going to provide you some obviously going to provide you some obviously going to provide you some fuel, some like some your motor. It's fuel, some like some your motor. It's fuel, some like some your motor. It's going to get you to go, but let it also going to get you to go, but let it also going to get you to go, but let it also be the thing that guides you, like a be the thing that guides you, like a be the thing that guides you, like a rudder that guides your direction. His rudder that guides your direction. His rudder that guides your direction. His take was that it leads you to the take was that it leads you to the take was that it leads you to the frontier of any field cuz the more like, frontier of any field cuz the more like, frontier of any field cuz the more like, for example, when you got really into for example, when you got really into for example, when you got really into fitness, fitness, fitness, you started maybe at 50th percentile you started maybe at 50th percentile you started maybe at 50th percentile knowledge on health and fitness. Is that knowledge on health and fitness. Is that knowledge on health and fitness. Is that probably correct? Yeah. And then the probably correct? Yeah. And then the probably correct? Yeah. And then the interest, often irrational cuz, dude, interest, often irrational cuz, dude, interest, often irrational cuz, dude, why do you need it? You're married. why do you need it? You're married. why do you need it? You're married. You're already healthy. Like why do you You're already healthy. Like why do you You're already healthy. Like why do you What do you What do you What do you want What do you What do you What do you want What do you What do you What do you want these abs so damn bad, right? these abs so damn bad, right? these abs so damn bad, right? But, something drove you. Correct? Yeah, But, something drove you. Correct? Yeah, But, something drove you. Correct? Yeah, I And frankly, I don't even know what it I And frankly, I don't even know what it I And frankly, I don't even know what it was. You didn't question it. You don't was. You didn't question it. You don't was. You didn't question it. You don't have to know what it is, you just have have to know what it is, you just have have to know what it is, you just have to not doubt it is the kind of trick. to not doubt it is the kind of trick. to not doubt it is the kind of trick. And then, how far did it take you? And then, how far did it take you? And then, how far did it take you? You're injecting stuff in your butt, You're injecting stuff in your butt, You're injecting stuff in your butt, you're doing the NFL combine as a you're doing the NFL combine as a you're doing the NFL combine as a civilian. You were like getting to, you civilian. You were like getting to, you civilian. You were like getting to, you know, measuring every calorie and body know, measuring every calorie and body know, measuring every calorie and body fat. Like you you went to the frontier fat. Like you you went to the frontier fat. Like you you went to the frontier of how to do this thing. Like best known of how to do this thing. Like best known of how to do this thing. Like best known best practices plus some experimental best practices plus some experimental best practices plus some experimental [ __ ] Am I right? Yeah. And so, what he [ __ ] Am I right? Yeah. And so, what he [ __ ] Am I right? Yeah. And so, what he talks about is like Paul Graham talks about is like Paul Graham talks about is like Paul Graham basically says, "Let the Let the basically says, "Let the Let the basically says, "Let the Let the enthusiasm be the engine and the rudder. enthusiasm be the engine and the rudder. enthusiasm be the engine and the rudder. It'll guide you where you need to go. It'll guide you where you need to go. It'll guide you where you need to go. It'll take you to the frontier and at It'll take you to the frontier and at It'll take you to the frontier and at the frontier, you will notice some the frontier, you will notice some the frontier, you will notice some gaps." And so, when you were at the gaps." And so, when you were at the gaps." And so, when you were at the frontier, Sam, did you not notice a gap? frontier, Sam, did you not notice a gap? frontier, Sam, did you not notice a gap? And the gap that you told me about has And the gap that you told me about has And the gap that you told me about has turned into one of our most profitable turned into one of our most profitable turned into one of our most profitable investments. investments. investments. There's this like male epidemic of low There's this like male epidemic of low There's this like male epidemic of low testosterone. People are going to want testosterone. People are going to want testosterone. People are going to want to take exogenous testosterone and it's to take exogenous testosterone and it's to take exogenous testosterone and it's extremely, you know, it changes the way extremely, you know, it changes the way extremely, you know, it changes the way you feel. It's extremely sticky when you you feel. It's extremely sticky when you you feel. It's extremely sticky when you do it. I don't know if I want to build do it. I don't know if I want to build do it. I don't know if I want to build that business, but man, I know that that business, but man, I know that that business, but man, I know that would be a gangbusters business. And we would be a gangbusters business. And we would be a gangbusters business. And we both invested in Hone Health, which is both invested in Hone Health, which is both invested in Hone Health, which is now, you know, over nine figures run now, you know, over nine figures run now, you know, over nine figures run rate. It's doing great. It's a It's a rate. It's doing great. It's a It's a rate. It's doing great. It's a It's a wonderful business. wonderful business. wonderful business. And so, it's only when you're at the And so, it's only when you're at the And so, it's only when you're at the frontier do you notice gaps in There's frontier do you notice gaps in There's frontier do you notice gaps in There's not really a trusted brand for doing not really a trusted brand for doing not really a trusted brand for doing this, right? Or this, right? Or this, right? Or we don't really know how to do this, but we don't really know how to do this, but we don't really know how to do this, but if somebody ever figured it out, that if somebody ever figured it out, that if somebody ever figured it out, that would be really valuable. You told me would be really valuable. You told me would be really valuable. You told me about Ozempic back before Ozempic was about Ozempic back before Ozempic was about Ozempic back before Ozempic was even called Ozempic. You were like, "I'm even called Ozempic. You were like, "I'm even called Ozempic. You were like, "I'm taking semaglutide." And you know, we taking semaglutide." And you know, we taking semaglutide." And you know, we didn't act on that insight, but it took didn't act on that insight, but it took didn't act on that insight, but it took you When you go to the frontier, you you When you go to the frontier, you you When you go to the frontier, you notice the gaps and the gaps are where notice the gaps and the gaps are where notice the gaps and the gaps are where all the sort of the opportunities are all the sort of the opportunities are all the sort of the opportunities are for for any person who wants to do great for for any person who wants to do great for for any person who wants to do great work. First of all, great spiel. You got work. First of all, great spiel. You got work. First of all, great spiel. You got me fired up there. Second of all, it me fired up there. Second of all, it me fired up there. Second of all, it sucks that me taking drugs I've kind of sucks that me taking drugs I've kind of sucks that me taking drugs I've kind of paying the price of your point making paying the price of your point making paying the price of your point making here. here. here. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Who would want to be friends with >> Who would want to be friends with >> Who would want to be friends with someone who's going to do all that [ __ ] All right, so this episode is all about All right, so this episode is all about excellence. A while back, I shared my excellence. A while back, I shared my excellence. A while back, I shared my personal framework for building personal framework for building personal framework for building excellence in my own life and the team excellence in my own life and the team excellence in my own life and the team at HubSpot turned it into a 30-day at HubSpot turned it into a 30-day at HubSpot turned it into a 30-day operating system that you can check out operating system that you can check out operating system that you can check out right now. right now. right now. It breaks down the systems that have It breaks down the systems that have It breaks down the systems that have took me 10 years to figure out and shows took me 10 years to figure out and shows took me 10 years to figure out and shows how exactly I use them day-to-day. These how exactly I use them day-to-day. These how exactly I use them day-to-day. These are systems that genuinely changed my are systems that genuinely changed my are systems that genuinely changed my life. So, if you want to build a good life. So, if you want to build a good life. So, if you want to build a good life, scan the QR code or click the link life, scan the QR code or click the link life, scan the QR code or click the link in the description. Now, let's get back in the description. Now, let's get back in the description. Now, let's get back to the show. to the show. to the show. I'm going to tell you something that I'm going to tell you something that I'm going to tell you something that sounds academic and woo-woo, but I'm sounds academic and woo-woo, but I'm sounds academic and woo-woo, but I'm going to make it super tactical. But, going to make it super tactical. But, going to make it super tactical. But, the idea of blister versus bliss is the idea of blister versus bliss is the idea of blister versus bliss is actually really interesting because do actually really interesting because do actually really interesting because do you know what the etymology of the word you know what the etymology of the word you know what the etymology of the word passion is? passion is? passion is? No. So, the word passion comes from the No. So, the word passion comes from the No. So, the word passion comes from the word suffering. word suffering. word suffering. It always seemed weird that it was the It always seemed weird that it was the It always seemed weird that it was the passion of the passion of the Christ is passion of the passion of the Christ is passion of the passion of the Christ is the story of Jesus being nailed to the the story of Jesus being nailed to the the story of Jesus being nailed to the cross, which you're like cross, which you're like cross, which you're like >> Why Why Why Why does he love that? Yeah. >> Why Why Why Why does he love that? Yeah. >> Why Why Why Why does he love that? Yeah. It stands for suffering. And It stands for suffering. And It stands for suffering. And uh it's so the idea of bliss versus uh it's so the idea of bliss versus uh it's so the idea of bliss versus blister is interesting because blister blister is interesting because blister blister is interesting because blister is a significantly better word because is a significantly better word because is a significantly better word because passion, following your passion, uh passion, following your passion, uh passion, following your passion, uh means following your your your means following your your your means following your your your suffering, meaning something that you suffering, meaning something that you suffering, meaning something that you love so much you're willing to suffer a love so much you're willing to suffer a love so much you're willing to suffer a whole bunch in order to put to it you whole bunch in order to put to it you whole bunch in order to put to it you know follow through it. You're basically know follow through it. You're basically know follow through it. You're basically called to do it. And what's interesting called to do it. And what's interesting called to do it. And what's interesting is that up until recently following your is that up until recently following your is that up until recently following your passion didn't mean what it means today. passion didn't mean what it means today. passion didn't mean what it means today. Now, a lot of people think it means Now, a lot of people think it means Now, a lot of people think it means follow your bliss, which that's actually follow your bliss, which that's actually follow your bliss, which that's actually a great word to use, which is something a great word to use, which is something a great word to use, which is something that you're like enthused about all the that you're like enthused about all the that you're like enthused about all the time. time. time. >> Don't love your job, job you love, you >> Don't love your job, job you love, you >> Don't love your job, job you love, you know what I mean? So, up until like know what I mean? So, up until like know what I mean? So, up until like you've heard of the Gilded Age. So, in you've heard of the Gilded Age. So, in you've heard of the Gilded Age. So, in the Gilded Age that was where this idea the Gilded Age that was where this idea the Gilded Age that was where this idea of leisure time first got popular in of leisure time first got popular in of leisure time first got popular in America. And it was a sign of class, America. And it was a sign of class, America. And it was a sign of class, meaning if you were rich, then you would meaning if you were rich, then you would meaning if you were rich, then you would spend your days in a state of leisure. A spend your days in a state of leisure. A spend your days in a state of leisure. A man of leisure, have you ever heard that man of leisure, have you ever heard that man of leisure, have you ever heard that phrase? That was a phrase that was phrase? That was a phrase that was phrase? That was a phrase that was invented in the late 1800s in America. invented in the late 1800s in America. invented in the late 1800s in America. And this idea of like no one has And this idea of like no one has And this idea of like no one has leisure, that's a that's a that's this leisure, that's a that's a that's this leisure, that's a that's a that's this idea passion and leisure, that is the idea passion and leisure, that is the idea passion and leisure, that is the idea that is only afforded to the rich. idea that is only afforded to the rich. idea that is only afforded to the rich. And up until that point your trade or And up until that point your trade or And up until that point your trade or your skill set was given to you by your your skill set was given to you by your your skill set was given to you by your father or mother. It was my father was father or mother. It was my father was father or mother. It was my father was this thing, therefore I will become this this thing, therefore I will become this this thing, therefore I will become this thing. And do you want to know something thing. And do you want to know something thing. And do you want to know something interesting? I think people were interesting? I think people were interesting? I think people were probably happier then. But, there is probably happier then. But, there is probably happier then. But, there is like a middle ground. And so, up until like a middle ground. And so, up until like a middle ground. And so, up until like in 1930 there was no vacation or like in 1930 there was no vacation or like in 1930 there was no vacation or there was no work weeks or work there was no work weeks or work there was no work weeks or work weekends. Did you know that? Up until weekends. Did you know that? Up until weekends. Did you know that? Up until when? Like the 1930s. Do you know who when? Like the 1930s. Do you know who when? Like the 1930s. Do you know who popularized the weekend? popularized the weekend? popularized the weekend? >> Isn't it like Henry Ford with the >> Isn't it like Henry Ford with the >> Isn't it like Henry Ford with the factory system? factory system? factory system? >> Yeah. So, Henry Ford was his company was >> Yeah. So, Henry Ford was his company was >> Yeah. So, Henry Ford was his company was so big at the time and they employed so so big at the time and they employed so so big at the time and they employed so many people. He was like, "How do we get many people. He was like, "How do we get many people. He was like, "How do we get the most out of our workers?" And he the most out of our workers?" And he the most out of our workers?" And he actually determined through a bunch of actually determined through a bunch of actually determined through a bunch of research and like some like scientific research and like some like scientific research and like some like scientific data, he was like, "If we actually give data, he was like, "If we actually give data, he was like, "If we actually give people weekends off and we and we create people weekends off and we and we create people weekends off and we and we create a standard work day, which I actually a standard work day, which I actually a standard work day, which I actually think the standard work day for him was think the standard work day for him was think the standard work day for him was 12 hours, 12 hours, 12 hours, not eight. But, if we all and then if we not eight. But, if we all and then if we not eight. But, if we all and then if we institute like a minimum wage and this institute like a minimum wage and this institute like a minimum wage and this type of thing, we're actually going to type of thing, we're actually going to type of thing, we're actually going to get more loyalty and we're going to get get more loyalty and we're going to get get more loyalty and we're going to get more productivity, this and that." And more productivity, this and that." And more productivity, this and that." And so, the idea of so, the idea of so, the idea of work weeks and vacation and all that work weeks and vacation and all that work weeks and vacation and all that stuff, that didn't even exist until stuff, that didn't even exist until stuff, that didn't even exist until 1930. Then the Great Depression happened 1930. Then the Great Depression happened 1930. Then the Great Depression happened and then World War happened and those and then World War happened and those and then World War happened and those ideas sort of went away. We worked ideas sort of went away. We worked ideas sort of went away. We worked really hard to like make things happen. really hard to like make things happen. really hard to like make things happen. But, then post-World War II, so between But, then post-World War II, so between But, then post-World War II, so between the the the the years of 1950 and 1970, that was the years of 1950 and 1970, that was the years of 1950 and 1970, that was peak leisure. This is when like the idea peak leisure. This is when like the idea peak leisure. This is when like the idea of like baseball and bicycles and of like baseball and bicycles and of like baseball and bicycles and vacations, that's when like this idea vacations, that's when like this idea vacations, that's when like this idea really took off. It's very interesting, really took off. It's very interesting, really took off. It's very interesting, but like there literally that was like but like there literally that was like but like there literally that was like the golden age of of leisure because all the golden age of of leisure because all the golden age of of leisure because all these American soldiers came back from these American soldiers came back from these American soldiers came back from the war, the economy was booming and the war, the economy was booming and the war, the economy was booming and they got this thing called the GI Bill. they got this thing called the GI Bill. they got this thing called the GI Bill. Have you heard of the GI Bill? No. Have you heard of the GI Bill? No. Have you heard of the GI Bill? No. Veterans, ex-soldiers, if you're still Veterans, ex-soldiers, if you're still Veterans, ex-soldiers, if you're still young, they would pay for your college. young, they would pay for your college. young, they would pay for your college. And so, all these young guys were like, And so, all these young guys were like, And so, all these young guys were like, "I was in Germany fighting for my life. "I was in Germany fighting for my life. "I was in Germany fighting for my life. Now, I'm in college and like the Now, I'm in college and like the Now, I'm in college and like the economy's booming and I can get a job economy's booming and I can get a job economy's booming and I can get a job where I can have a house and date in where I can have a house and date in where I can have a house and date in Ohio where I can afford two cars." And Ohio where I can afford two cars." And Ohio where I can afford two cars." And this idea of like I could have a I could this idea of like I could have a I could this idea of like I could have a I could buy an oven and a car and a stove and buy an oven and a car and a stove and buy an oven and a car and a stove and all this stuff. That that was like this all this stuff. That that was like this all this stuff. That that was like this golden era. And up until recently this golden era. And up until recently this golden era. And up until recently this idea of passion wasn't really a thing, idea of passion wasn't really a thing, idea of passion wasn't really a thing, but now we actually work harder, I but now we actually work harder, I but now we actually work harder, I believe. The data will show that we believe. The data will show that we believe. The data will show that we actually work significantly harder today actually work significantly harder today actually work significantly harder today than ever before and our leisure time than ever before and our leisure time than ever before and our leisure time and focus on leisure and focus on and focus on leisure and focus on and focus on leisure and focus on passion, it's sort of been like this passion, it's sort of been like this passion, it's sort of been like this weird dichotomy where we work really weird dichotomy where we work really weird dichotomy where we work really really hard all the time and we somehow really hard all the time and we somehow really hard all the time and we somehow think that following your passion is think that following your passion is think that following your passion is what you have to do and following your what you have to do and following your what you have to do and following your passion is what you have to do for work. passion is what you have to do for work. passion is what you have to do for work. And because of that and because the And because of that and because the And because of that and because the economy is booming, there's this idea economy is booming, there's this idea economy is booming, there's this idea that if you think about your happiness that if you think about your happiness that if you think about your happiness and your purpose on Earth, it actually and your purpose on Earth, it actually and your purpose on Earth, it actually makes you more unhappy. There's this makes you more unhappy. There's this makes you more unhappy. There's this amazing book called Bad Therapy and it's amazing book called Bad Therapy and it's amazing book called Bad Therapy and it's and this author used this idea that the and this author used this idea that the and this author used this idea that the people who think why and ask themselves people who think why and ask themselves people who think why and ask themselves all the time, "Why am I not happy? Why all the time, "Why am I not happy? Why all the time, "Why am I not happy? Why am I not following my life's work? Why am I not following my life's work? Why am I not following my life's work? Why Why am I not following my passion? This Why am I not following my passion? This Why am I not following my passion? This should feel better. This doesn't feel should feel better. This doesn't feel should feel better. This doesn't feel better." Those people are actually better." Those people are actually better." Those people are actually oftentimes significantly more discontent oftentimes significantly more discontent oftentimes significantly more discontent with their life. There was a Cal Cal with their life. There was a Cal Cal with their life. There was a Cal Cal Newport who wrote Deep Work. He had this Newport who wrote Deep Work. He had this Newport who wrote Deep Work. He had this thing where he said pass thing where he said pass thing where he said pass passion is a byproduct of mastery. And passion is a byproduct of mastery. And passion is a byproduct of mastery. And if you extend that, well then where does if you extend that, well then where does if you extend that, well then where does mastery come from? I would say mastery mastery come from? I would say mastery mastery come from? I would say mastery comes from an enduring enthusiasm. comes from an enduring enthusiasm. comes from an enduring enthusiasm. You know, yesterday I I had a piano You know, yesterday I I had a piano You know, yesterday I I had a piano lesson in the morning and then in the lesson in the morning and then in the lesson in the morning and then in the evening before bed I'm tired, I'm evening before bed I'm tired, I'm evening before bed I'm tired, I'm walking to bed and I pass the room that walking to bed and I pass the room that walking to bed and I pass the room that has the piano. I'm like, "Ah, let me get has the piano. I'm like, "Ah, let me get has the piano. I'm like, "Ah, let me get in here play the sea shanty like I'm a in here play the sea shanty like I'm a in here play the sea shanty like I'm a pirate on the pirates like on a boat or pirate on the pirates like on a boat or pirate on the pirates like on a boat or something like that." And I'm playing something like that." And I'm playing something like that." And I'm playing this song and I'm I'm basically half this song and I'm I'm basically half this song and I'm I'm basically half half eyes open, but it's but I got a half eyes open, but it's but I got a half eyes open, but it's but I got a little bit better, right? I've got one little bit better, right? I've got one little bit better, right? I've got one step closer to mastery. And the only the step closer to mastery. And the only the step closer to mastery. And the only the only way you can get yourself to do only way you can get yourself to do only way you can get yourself to do enough enough enough load, the 10,000 hours type of idea, to load, the 10,000 hours type of idea, to load, the 10,000 hours type of idea, to achieve mastery is through enduring achieve mastery is through enduring achieve mastery is through enduring enthusiasm. And so, if you if you think enthusiasm. And so, if you if you think enthusiasm. And so, if you if you think that maybe that's the chain is enduring that maybe that's the chain is enduring that maybe that's the chain is enduring enthusia- enthusiasm to enduring enthusia- enthusiasm to enduring enthusia- enthusiasm to enduring enthusiasm, which leads to mastery, and enthusiasm, which leads to mastery, and enthusiasm, which leads to mastery, and mastery is a deeply satisfying thing mastery is a deeply satisfying thing mastery is a deeply satisfying thing that leads to uh that leads to uh that leads to uh you know, uh passion. And and this idea you know, uh passion. And and this idea you know, uh passion. And and this idea of blisters where it's like look for the of blisters where it's like look for the of blisters where it's like look for the evidence of suffering because you're you evidence of suffering because you're you evidence of suffering because you're you enjoy what you're getting out of it. enjoy what you're getting out of it. enjoy what you're getting out of it. Now, can I give you my riff on this? Cuz Now, can I give you my riff on this? Cuz Now, can I give you my riff on this? Cuz I was like, "Okay, I like the idea, but I was like, "Okay, I like the idea, but I was like, "Okay, I like the idea, but how do I actually do this? How do I use how do I actually do this? How do I use how do I actually do this? How do I use this?" So, I had this observation that this?" So, I had this observation that this?" So, I had this observation that like I used to pick projects based on like I used to pick projects based on like I used to pick projects based on industry. It's like, "Oh, I'm going to industry. It's like, "Oh, I'm going to industry. It's like, "Oh, I'm going to do do do healthcare cuz I'm real passionate about healthcare cuz I'm real passionate about healthcare cuz I'm real passionate about healthcare." Or I'm going to do um healthcare." Or I'm going to do um healthcare." Or I'm going to do um you know, I started this clothing you know, I started this clothing you know, I started this clothing clothing business cuz oh, that sounds clothing business cuz oh, that sounds clothing business cuz oh, that sounds fun. Let's do fashion. Let's do apparel. fun. Let's do fashion. Let's do apparel. fun. Let's do fashion. Let's do apparel. That's cool. That sounds more fun than That's cool. That sounds more fun than That's cool. That sounds more fun than that. that. that. >> You're a big clothing guy, huh? >> You're a big clothing guy, huh? >> You're a big clothing guy, huh? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I picked things I thought sounded fun. I >> I picked things I thought sounded fun. I >> I picked things I thought sounded fun. I picked industries or products that I picked industries or products that I picked industries or products that I thought were fun. thought were fun. thought were fun. And what I learned along the way was And what I learned along the way was And what I learned along the way was that that that the time you spend on a on the actual the time you spend on a on the actual the time you spend on a on the actual product or industry product or industry product or industry the industry almost like fades to an the industry almost like fades to an the industry almost like fades to an oblivion. The time you spend on a oblivion. The time you spend on a oblivion. The time you spend on a product is very minimal. Like how much product is very minimal. Like how much product is very minimal. Like how much time would you say in whether it's time would you say in whether it's time would you say in whether it's Hampton or The Hustle, how much time per Hampton or The Hustle, how much time per Hampton or The Hustle, how much time per day would you say you spent on actually day would you say you spent on actually day would you say you spent on actually working on the product? working on the product? working on the product? Well, none and because all the time is Well, none and because all the time is Well, none and because all the time is spent on people stuff. spent on people stuff. spent on people stuff. Right. Right. Right. >> Like you you start a company think >> Like you you start a company think >> Like you you start a company think because you love to tinker and then because you love to tinker and then because you love to tinker and then after 6 or 12 months if you're really after 6 or 12 months if you're really after 6 or 12 months if you're really successful, the majority of time is successful, the majority of time is successful, the majority of time is spent on managing or leading or spent on managing or leading or spent on managing or leading or organizing people. And even when you're organizing people. And even when you're organizing people. And even when you're organizing them, you might be leading organizing them, you might be leading organizing them, you might be leading them or managing them or organizing them them or managing them or organizing them them or managing them or organizing them partly around product, but a huge amount partly around product, but a huge amount partly around product, but a huge amount of it is around growth. You spend most of it is around growth. You spend most of it is around growth. You spend most of your time selling the thing, not of your time selling the thing, not of your time selling the thing, not making and marveling about how how great making and marveling about how how great making and marveling about how how great the thing is. And so, uh what I realized the thing is. And so, uh what I realized the thing is. And so, uh what I realized was like, "Dude, was like, "Dude, was like, "Dude, you spend all your like when you when you spend all your like when you when you spend all your like when you when you decide to start a company, you're you decide to start a company, you're you decide to start a company, you're going to try to inherently you're saying going to try to inherently you're saying going to try to inherently you're saying I'm going to make this thing successful. I'm going to make this thing successful. I'm going to make this thing successful. To make it successful it's got to grow. To make it successful it's got to grow. To make it successful it's got to grow. And to make it grow, you're going to And to make it grow, you're going to And to make it grow, you're going to spend most of your time on that really spend most of your time on that really spend most of your time on that really hard problem of making it grow. Part of hard problem of making it grow. Part of hard problem of making it grow. Part of making it grow is the product, but making it grow is the product, but making it grow is the product, but that's only a small part, minority that's only a small part, minority that's only a small part, minority percentage, not more than 50%. I would percentage, not more than 50%. I would percentage, not more than 50%. I would say more closer to 15% than 50. Most of say more closer to 15% than 50. Most of say more closer to 15% than 50. Most of your time is going to be spent on your time is going to be spent on your time is going to be spent on building the team, managing the team, building the team, managing the team, building the team, managing the team, and working on core growth and sales. and working on core growth and sales. and working on core growth and sales. And so, I I simplified it and I was And so, I I simplified it and I was And so, I I simplified it and I was like, "Oh, I don't need to pick an like, "Oh, I don't need to pick an like, "Oh, I don't need to pick an industry I love or a product I love. I industry I love or a product I love. I industry I love or a product I love. I need to pick a sales motion that I need to pick a sales motion that I need to pick a sales motion that I love." Because guess what? Like if you love." Because guess what? Like if you love." Because guess what? Like if you have a product doesn't matter what the have a product doesn't matter what the have a product doesn't matter what the niche is. If it's grown via enterprise niche is. If it's grown via enterprise niche is. If it's grown via enterprise sales, most of your time is going to be sales, most of your time is going to be sales, most of your time is going to be spent doing enterprise sales, hiring spent doing enterprise sales, hiring spent doing enterprise sales, hiring enterprise sales, and managing an enterprise sales, and managing an enterprise sales, and managing an enterprise sales team. enterprise sales team. enterprise sales team. If it's built on Facebook ads, if you if If it's built on Facebook ads, if you if If it's built on Facebook ads, if you if it's e-com I have an e-com brand. Most it's e-com I have an e-com brand. Most it's e-com I have an e-com brand. Most of the time is spent on running ads to of the time is spent on running ads to of the time is spent on running ads to landing pages and sending emails. landing pages and sending emails. landing pages and sending emails. Because if I want the thing to grow, Because if I want the thing to grow, Because if I want the thing to grow, that's the thing I got to get better at. that's the thing I got to get better at. that's the thing I got to get better at. Yeah, it's like do you want to work with Yeah, it's like do you want to work with Yeah, it's like do you want to work with spreadsheets or do you want to work in spreadsheets or do you want to work in spreadsheets or do you want to work in like with guys that wear bright brown like with guys that wear bright brown like with guys that wear bright brown shoes and sports jackets and call shoes and sports jackets and call shoes and sports jackets and call themselves like the regional VP of the themselves like the regional VP of the themselves like the regional VP of the Southeast region? Exactly. Do you want Southeast region? Exactly. Do you want Southeast region? Exactly. Do you want to take people to dinner and then to take people to dinner and then to take people to dinner and then promise to circle back or do you want to promise to circle back or do you want to promise to circle back or do you want to sit behind your laptop you know, sit behind your laptop you know, sit behind your laptop you know, orchestrating or do you want and then orchestrating or do you want and then orchestrating or do you want and then there's a few of these, right? Like if there's a few of these, right? Like if there's a few of these, right? Like if you're an SEO game, then you're going to you're an SEO game, then you're going to you're an SEO game, then you're going to play the SEO game. That's what you're play the SEO game. That's what you're play the SEO game. That's what you're spend most of your time doing is spend most of your time doing is spend most of your time doing is improving your SEO. That's the main improving your SEO. That's the main improving your SEO. That's the main growth channel. So, I realized oh, I growth channel. So, I realized oh, I growth channel. So, I realized oh, I should actually just figure out what should actually just figure out what should actually just figure out what type of what type of sales or growth type of what type of sales or growth type of what type of sales or growth mechanisms I like and that's the mechanisms I like and that's the mechanisms I like and that's the constraint. What do you like, by the constraint. What do you like, by the constraint. What do you like, by the way? So, for me it's content. I was way? So, for me it's content. I was way? So, for me it's content. I was like, "I like making content." And so, I like, "I like making content." And so, I like, "I like making content." And so, I should pick things I should pick games should pick things I should pick games should pick things I should pick games that content is the main way to make it that content is the main way to make it that content is the main way to make it grow. My second favorite is ads. I like grow. My second favorite is ads. I like grow. My second favorite is ads. I like ads, which is also content, but it's ads, which is also content, but it's ads, which is also content, but it's like the more pay-to-play scalable like the more pay-to-play scalable like the more pay-to-play scalable version of content. version of content. version of content. The thing I like the least is The thing I like the least is The thing I like the least is um viral growth uh and sales. Those are um viral growth uh and sales. Those are um viral growth uh and sales. Those are my least two least favorite. Dude, I my least two least favorite. Dude, I my least two least favorite. Dude, I distinctly remember a time so, The distinctly remember a time so, The distinctly remember a time so, The Hustle was a media company. So, we had Hustle was a media company. So, we had Hustle was a media company. So, we had um a couple seven-figure deals, a bunch um a couple seven-figure deals, a bunch um a couple seven-figure deals, a bunch of six-figure deals, and that required a of six-figure deals, and that required a of six-figure deals, and that required a little bit of wine and dine. There was little bit of wine and dine. There was little bit of wine and dine. There was one distinct day that I had to go to New one distinct day that I had to go to New one distinct day that I had to go to New York City and I wore these stupid bright York City and I wore these stupid bright York City and I wore these stupid bright brown shoes, which is like a joke that brown shoes, which is like a joke that brown shoes, which is like a joke that like all the sales people would wear for like all the sales people would wear for like all the sales people would wear for some reason. The outfit was like blue some reason. The outfit was like blue some reason. The outfit was like blue jeans with a sports jacket and these jeans with a sports jacket and these jeans with a sports jacket and these ugly brown shoes. I distinctly remember ugly brown shoes. I distinctly remember ugly brown shoes. I distinctly remember a trip where I took the shoes off a trip where I took the shoes off a trip where I took the shoes off post-meeting. I threw them in the trash post-meeting. I threw them in the trash post-meeting. I threw them in the trash can and I got in the cab without shoes can and I got in the cab without shoes can and I got in the cab without shoes on and I said, "I'm never doing that on and I said, "I'm never doing that on and I said, "I'm never doing that again. These shoes are done." again. These shoes are done." again. These shoes are done." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It's like the dude version of taking off >> It's like the dude version of taking off >> It's like the dude version of taking off your bra after a long day. your bra after a long day. your bra after a long day. >> Dude, because I was just like >> Dude, because I was just like >> Dude, because I was just like sucking so much D in this meeting. I'm sucking so much D in this meeting. I'm sucking so much D in this meeting. I'm like I'm [laughter] like this the truth like I'm [laughter] like this the truth like I'm [laughter] like this the truth doesn't matter when you talk to these doesn't matter when you talk to these doesn't matter when you talk to these people. It's it's okay to lie. My least people. It's it's okay to lie. My least people. It's it's okay to lie. My least favorite is the wheeling of influencers. favorite is the wheeling of influencers. favorite is the wheeling of influencers. We did a streaming the company we sold We did a streaming the company we sold We did a streaming the company we sold to Twitch. It was a streaming app and to Twitch. It was a streaming app and to Twitch. It was a streaming app and so, it was made for people who live so, it was made for people who live so, it was made for people who live stream on YouTube and Twitch. And the stream on YouTube and Twitch. And the stream on YouTube and Twitch. And the number of number of number of absolute shitty meetings where I'm I'm absolute shitty meetings where I'm I'm absolute shitty meetings where I'm I'm metaphorically on my knees with this uh metaphorically on my knees with this uh metaphorically on my knees with this uh you know, some 19-year-old streamer you know, some 19-year-old streamer you know, some 19-year-old streamer who's not not looking up from his phone who's not not looking up from his phone who's not not looking up from his phone and his manager who is you know, his and his manager who is you know, his and his manager who is you know, his girlfriend is sitting next to me. They girlfriend is sitting next to me. They girlfriend is sitting next to me. They don't ask a single question. They're don't ask a single question. They're don't ask a single question. They're making more money than they know what to making more money than they know what to making more money than they know what to do with making millions and millions of do with making millions and millions of do with making millions and millions of dollars sitting in Toledo in their dollars sitting in Toledo in their dollars sitting in Toledo in their bedroom and you're trying to pitch them bedroom and you're trying to pitch them bedroom and you're trying to pitch them on like you know, on like you know, on like you know, your product and I just remember your product and I just remember your product and I just remember thinking like thinking like thinking like I actually met with one of my biggest I actually met with one of my biggest I actually met with one of my biggest competitors that night for dinner and we competitors that night for dinner and we competitors that night for dinner and we were both just commiserating on like he were both just commiserating on like he were both just commiserating on like he he just literally told me. He was like, he just literally told me. He was like, he just literally told me. He was like, I'm so tired of sucking I'm so tired of sucking I'm so tired of sucking and he's like, I'm just not going to and he's like, I'm just not going to and he's like, I'm just not going to suck anymore. And I just my first suck anymore. And I just my first suck anymore. And I just my first meeting with this guy. meeting with this guy. meeting with this guy. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It's like two It's like two UFC fighters >> It's like two It's like two UFC fighters >> It's like two It's like two UFC fighters when they get done fighting and they're when they get done fighting and they're when they get done fighting and they're backstage and they're like, we both backstage and they're like, we both backstage and they're like, we both lost. Yeah, lost. Yeah, lost. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's how it felt. And yeah, exactly. That's how it felt. And yeah, exactly. That's how it felt. And uh so that's my least favorite is the uh so that's my least favorite is the uh so that's my least favorite is the wooing of divas where you need these wooing of divas where you need these wooing of divas where you need these influencers to back you to for your influencers to back you to for your influencers to back you to for your product to succeed. That's the absolute product to succeed. That's the absolute product to succeed. That's the absolute worst. All right. So my my phrase for worst. All right. So my my phrase for worst. All right. So my my phrase for this is you want to find a loop that you this is you want to find a loop that you this is you want to find a loop that you love. All right. What's a loop? So the love. All right. What's a loop? So the love. All right. What's a loop? So the loop is basically like I can kind of loop is basically like I can kind of loop is basically like I can kind of break down any job break down any job break down any job into a pretty repeatable loop. So I'll into a pretty repeatable loop. So I'll into a pretty repeatable loop. So I'll give you an example. The healer loop. give you an example. The healer loop. give you an example. The healer loop. This is a doctor or therapist. It's This is a doctor or therapist. It's This is a doctor or therapist. It's someone comes to you in pain. someone comes to you in pain. someone comes to you in pain. You diagnose the root issue of the pain. You diagnose the root issue of the pain. You diagnose the root issue of the pain. You prescribe some solution and you You prescribe some solution and you You prescribe some solution and you hopefully send them back out with less hopefully send them back out with less hopefully send them back out with less pain. That's your loop. If you're a pain. That's your loop. If you're a pain. That's your loop. If you're a doctor or a therapist, you're going to doctor or a therapist, you're going to doctor or a therapist, you're going to do that tens of thousands of times. do that tens of thousands of times. do that tens of thousands of times. And so I remember when I was in college, And so I remember when I was in college, And so I remember when I was in college, I took the MCATs. I thought I was going I took the MCATs. I thought I was going I took the MCATs. I thought I was going to go be a doctor. I specifically I knew to go be a doctor. I specifically I knew to go be a doctor. I specifically I knew what I wanted. I knew my passion was to what I wanted. I knew my passion was to what I wanted. I knew my passion was to be in sports medicine to be an be in sports medicine to be an be in sports medicine to be an orthopedic surgeon. And I went and I orthopedic surgeon. And I went and I orthopedic surgeon. And I went and I actually before I went to med school, I actually before I went to med school, I actually before I went to med school, I spent two weeks shadowing a guy who did spent two weeks shadowing a guy who did spent two weeks shadowing a guy who did the exact dream job I wanted. He was an the exact dream job I wanted. He was an the exact dream job I wanted. He was an orthopedic surgeon for an NFL team plus orthopedic surgeon for an NFL team plus orthopedic surgeon for an NFL team plus you know, had his own practice. you know, had his own practice. you know, had his own practice. Wow, it doesn't get any better than Wow, it doesn't get any better than Wow, it doesn't get any better than this. this. this. And I go in and I realized the loop that And I go in and I realized the loop that And I go in and I realized the loop that he was doing he was doing he was doing which was basically somebody comes to which was basically somebody comes to which was basically somebody comes to you in chronic pain. you in chronic pain. you in chronic pain. You say some version of like, well, You say some version of like, well, You say some version of like, well, that's just it is what it is. You don't that's just it is what it is. You don't that's just it is what it is. You don't have any cartilage left in that shoulder have any cartilage left in that shoulder have any cartilage left in that shoulder or that knee or yeah, yeah, it's damaged or that knee or yeah, yeah, it's damaged or that knee or yeah, yeah, it's damaged or it's ruptured and we're going to try or it's ruptured and we're going to try or it's ruptured and we're going to try our best to do surgery or to give you an our best to do surgery or to give you an our best to do surgery or to give you an injection of steroid, but like it's injection of steroid, but like it's injection of steroid, but like it's never going to be the same as it was never going to be the same as it was never going to be the same as it was before you before you before you >> change your behavior the um what caused >> change your behavior the um what caused >> change your behavior the um what caused it. it. it. >> I'll do pain management for you or I'll >> I'll do pain management for you or I'll >> I'll do pain management for you or I'll do performance management for you and do performance management for you and do performance management for you and like I'll send you back on your way like I'll send you back on your way like I'll send you back on your way better than you were when you came in better than you were when you came in better than you were when you came in here, but much worse than you want to here, but much worse than you want to here, but much worse than you want to be. be. be. And that was what he did every single And that was what he did every single And that was what he did every single day and he'd been doing that for 40 day and he'd been doing that for 40 day and he'd been doing that for 40 years. And I realized that is not a loop years. And I realized that is not a loop years. And I realized that is not a loop I love. It is extremely low creativity. I love. It is extremely low creativity. I love. It is extremely low creativity. You see people suffering all day and You see people suffering all day and You see people suffering all day and more power to him. He loved doing it. I more power to him. He loved doing it. I more power to him. He loved doing it. I didn't I felt tired at the end of every didn't I felt tired at the end of every didn't I felt tired at the end of every day of like, oh my god, just emotionally day of like, oh my god, just emotionally day of like, oh my god, just emotionally tired of dealing with suffering all day. tired of dealing with suffering all day. tired of dealing with suffering all day. And I was like, do I have to do this And I was like, do I have to do this And I was like, do I have to do this just cuz I've been saying this since I just cuz I've been saying this since I just cuz I've been saying this since I was 14 cuz I don't know, it sounded good was 14 cuz I don't know, it sounded good was 14 cuz I don't know, it sounded good to my parents or something. I'm not sure to my parents or something. I'm not sure to my parents or something. I'm not sure where we even got this game from. But where we even got this game from. But where we even got this game from. But like this idea of a loop, I think is like this idea of a loop, I think is like this idea of a loop, I think is really important. So for example, the really important. So for example, the really important. So for example, the founder loop is founder loop is founder loop is you see the world as it is some status you see the world as it is some status you see the world as it is some status quo of a of a of a of a of an industry quo of a of a of a of a of an industry quo of a of a of a of a of an industry of a of a of a situation. of a of a of a situation. of a of a of a situation. You imagine it better. Why What if we You imagine it better. Why What if we You imagine it better. Why What if we did this instead? You build a product. did this instead? You build a product. did this instead? You build a product. You sell the product and then you build You sell the product and then you build You sell the product and then you build the team that will build the product and the team that will build the product and the team that will build the product and sell the product. That's the loop you're sell the product. That's the loop you're sell the product. That's the loop you're going to do as a founder every going to do as a founder every going to do as a founder every as a founder on the whole and on the on as a founder on the whole and on the on as a founder on the whole and on the on the daily basis, it's going to be mostly the daily basis, it's going to be mostly the daily basis, it's going to be mostly initially, it's a building loop, then initially, it's a building loop, then initially, it's a building loop, then it's a selling loop and then it's a it's a selling loop and then it's a it's a selling loop and then it's a building the team loop. That's what building the team loop. That's what building the team loop. That's what you're going to do for the rest of time. you're going to do for the rest of time. you're going to do for the rest of time. So like do you like that? So like do you like that? So like do you like that? And so there's there's many of these. A And so there's there's many of these. A And so there's there's many of these. A farmer has a loop. Right? It goes with farmer has a loop. Right? It goes with farmer has a loop. Right? It goes with the seasons. You you know, you you plant the seasons. You you know, you you plant the seasons. You you know, you you plant the seeds. You water them. Then you you the seeds. You water them. Then you you the seeds. You water them. Then you you know, then it grows and then you reap know, then it grows and then you reap know, then it grows and then you reap what you sowed, right? And like that's what you sowed, right? And like that's what you sowed, right? And like that's the loop you're going to do and you're the loop you're going to do and you're the loop you're going to do and you're going to do that every year for 25 going to do that every year for 25 going to do that every year for 25 years. So I think the the key to life, years. So I think the the key to life, years. So I think the the key to life, if I was telling that that kid who if I was telling that that kid who if I was telling that that kid who walked up to us at the restaurant is walked up to us at the restaurant is walked up to us at the restaurant is assume right now you don't know what it assume right now you don't know what it assume right now you don't know what it is, but know what you're looking for. is, but know what you're looking for. is, but know what you're looking for. You're looking for the blisters that you You're looking for the blisters that you You're looking for the blisters that you enjoy and that will come from doing this enjoy and that will come from doing this enjoy and that will come from doing this loop loop loop thousands of times. And you don't have thousands of times. And you don't have thousands of times. And you don't have to know up front you'd like to do it a to know up front you'd like to do it a to know up front you'd like to do it a thousand times. Just see are you thousand times. Just see are you thousand times. Just see are you interested in doing it once, twice? Do interested in doing it once, twice? Do interested in doing it once, twice? Do you have an enthusiasm towards doing you have an enthusiasm towards doing you have an enthusiasm towards doing this? And then as you do it, you have to this? And then as you do it, you have to this? And then as you do it, you have to ask yourself like, is this something I I ask yourself like, is this something I I ask yourself like, is this something I I feel myself doing you know, like more feel myself doing you know, like more feel myself doing you know, like more and more and more? I would I would I and more and more? I would I would I and more and more? I would I would I don't feel tired doing this. I feel so I don't feel tired doing this. I feel so I don't feel tired doing this. I feel so I get energy doing this. Yeah, there's get energy doing this. Yeah, there's get energy doing this. Yeah, there's there's some pain. There's some there's some pain. There's some there's some pain. There's some suffering. There's some difficulty. I'm suffering. There's some difficulty. I'm suffering. There's some difficulty. I'm not saying it's without that, but find not saying it's without that, but find not saying it's without that, but find the loop that you love. And so for me, the loop that you love. And so for me, the loop that you love. And so for me, you know, I stumbled into it when I was you know, I stumbled into it when I was you know, I stumbled into it when I was basically 30 years old which was this basically 30 years old which was this basically 30 years old which was this podcast. It's like, oh, the I'm not the podcast. It's like, oh, the I'm not the podcast. It's like, oh, the I'm not the founder loop is okay, but the one I founder loop is okay, but the one I founder loop is okay, but the one I really love is really love is really love is I'm doing life and I get to be curious I'm doing life and I get to be curious I'm doing life and I get to be curious about something. Then I go dig in. about something. Then I go dig in. about something. Then I go dig in. Then I take the top 1% of what I found Then I take the top 1% of what I found Then I take the top 1% of what I found and I enthusiastically share it with and I enthusiastically share it with and I enthusiastically share it with like-minded people and I like that they like-minded people and I like that they like-minded people and I like that they like it and then I go and do it again like it and then I go and do it again like it and then I go and do it again the next day. And whether I'm writing the next day. And whether I'm writing the next day. And whether I'm writing books or I'm doing the podcast or with books or I'm doing the podcast or with books or I'm doing the podcast or with my YouTube channel, it doesn't matter my YouTube channel, it doesn't matter my YouTube channel, it doesn't matter what which way I do it. That's the what which way I do it. That's the what which way I do it. That's the that's the loop I love and I've been now that's the loop I love and I've been now that's the loop I love and I've been now been doing this podcast what? 6 years? been doing this podcast what? 6 years? been doing this podcast what? 6 years? Something like that and um I'm fresh. Something like that and um I'm fresh. Something like that and um I'm fresh. Fresh as a daisy. You know, it's like I Fresh as a daisy. You know, it's like I Fresh as a daisy. You know, it's like I could keep going. And not everybody could keep going. And not everybody could keep going. And not everybody other people could do this exact same other people could do this exact same other people could do this exact same loop and they would be totally burnt out loop and they would be totally burnt out loop and they would be totally burnt out and they would hate it. Let's get really and they would hate it. Let's get really and they would hate it. Let's get really practical on advice for that guy, but practical on advice for that guy, but practical on advice for that guy, but let me ask you something first. Have you let me ask you something first. Have you let me ask you something first. Have you read this book? I read this um read this book? I read this um read this book? I read this um I think 5 years ago. I told you about it I think 5 years ago. I told you about it I think 5 years ago. I told you about it when I read it. It's called The Top Five when I read it. It's called The Top Five when I read it. It's called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying. Regrets of the Dying. Regrets of the Dying. I didn't know this is a book. I've heard I didn't know this is a book. I've heard I didn't know this is a book. I've heard the story. Some researcher went and the story. Some researcher went and the story. Some researcher went and talked to people at hospice, right? Is talked to people at hospice, right? Is talked to people at hospice, right? Is that the story? that the story? that the story? >> I think it's worth the read, but it's >> I think it's worth the read, but it's >> I think it's worth the read, but it's one of these books that if I'm going to one of these books that if I'm going to one of these books that if I'm going to I can tell you the five points and I can tell you the five points and I can tell you the five points and that's definitely a lot of it. It's that's definitely a lot of it. It's that's definitely a lot of it. It's worth the read, but basically I forget worth the read, but basically I forget worth the read, but basically I forget how many people she worked with, but it how many people she worked with, but it how many people she worked with, but it was a woman who worked in a hospice for was a woman who worked in a hospice for was a woman who worked in a hospice for decades and I think it was potentially decades and I think it was potentially decades and I think it was potentially 10,000 people, but for sure thousands of 10,000 people, but for sure thousands of 10,000 people, but for sure thousands of people who she people who she people who she >> she's not a researcher. She actually >> she's not a researcher. She actually >> she's not a researcher. She actually just worked there. She was a nurse. just worked there. She was a nurse. just worked there. She was a nurse. Yeah, so she was a yeah, she was a Yeah, so she was a yeah, she was a Yeah, so she was a yeah, she was a nurse. I think she she yeah, she was a nurse. I think she she yeah, she was a nurse. I think she she yeah, she was a nurse. This was her occupation and she nurse. This was her occupation and she nurse. This was her occupation and she saw thousands of people die and she saw thousands of people die and she saw thousands of people die and she wrote this book called The Top Five wrote this book called The Top Five wrote this book called The Top Five Regrets for Dying of the Dying where she Regrets for Dying of the Dying where she Regrets for Dying of the Dying where she put together a list of the five things put together a list of the five things put together a list of the five things that were most common amongst the people that were most common amongst the people that were most common amongst the people she worked with. And I don't believe she worked with. And I don't believe she worked with. And I don't believe this book is scientific. It's purely this book is scientific. It's purely this book is scientific. It's purely observational, but her number I can tell observational, but her number I can tell observational, but her number I can tell you all five of them, but the number one you all five of them, but the number one you all five of them, but the number one regret by a huge margin was I wish I had regret by a huge margin was I wish I had regret by a huge margin was I wish I had the courage to live a life true to the courage to live a life true to the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of myself, not the life others expected of myself, not the life others expected of me. That was the number one regret by a me. That was the number one regret by a me. That was the number one regret by a huge margin when she like tallied this huge margin when she like tallied this huge margin when she like tallied this this up. And then basically this idea is this up. And then basically this idea is this up. And then basically this idea is that they like would spend that they like would spend that they like would spend too long and they didn't realize until too long and they didn't realize until too long and they didn't realize until the end of their life that they were the end of their life that they were the end of their life that they were living a life that other people that living a life that other people that living a life that other people that they thought other people would should they thought other people would should they thought other people would should want them to live, not versus what they want them to live, not versus what they want them to live, not versus what they really wanted to live. Now, listen to really wanted to live. Now, listen to really wanted to live. Now, listen to the rest because the third one is the rest because the third one is the rest because the third one is actually related to the first one. The actually related to the first one. The actually related to the first one. The second one was I wish I hadn't worked so second one was I wish I hadn't worked so second one was I wish I hadn't worked so hard. Now, this was the majority men who hard. Now, this was the majority men who hard. Now, this was the majority men who said I missed this game. I wasn't around said I missed this game. I wasn't around said I missed this game. I wasn't around for X, Y, and Z and they had massive for X, Y, and Z and they had massive for X, Y, and Z and they had massive regret around that. The third thing was regret around that. The third thing was regret around that. The third thing was I wish I had the courage to express my I wish I had the courage to express my I wish I had the courage to express my feelings. So it was people who feelings. So it was people who feelings. So it was people who suppressed themselves and they wished suppressed themselves and they wished suppressed themselves and they wished that they had the courage to say X, Y, that they had the courage to say X, Y, that they had the courage to say X, Y, and Z to someone they loved or a friend and Z to someone they loved or a friend and Z to someone they loved or a friend and and and it also was when they were conflicted it also was when they were conflicted it also was when they were conflicted with someone and they had arguments with with someone and they had arguments with with someone and they had arguments with someone and they're like, I wish I had someone and they're like, I wish I had someone and they're like, I wish I had the courage to say I don't agree with the courage to say I don't agree with the courage to say I don't agree with you. Can we please hash this out? But you. Can we please hash this out? But you. Can we please hash this out? But it's related to number one which is it's related to number one which is it's related to number one which is living the life that you want to live living the life that you want to live living the life that you want to live versus what you think you should. The versus what you think you should. The versus what you think you should. The fourth one was I wish I'd stayed in fourth one was I wish I'd stayed in fourth one was I wish I'd stayed in touch with my friends. Specifically, touch with my friends. Specifically, touch with my friends. Specifically, this is for old friends. Dying patients this is for old friends. Dying patients this is for old friends. Dying patients try to track down in their final weeks a try to track down in their final weeks a try to track down in their final weeks a lot of buddies who they had, but they lot of buddies who they had, but they lot of buddies who they had, but they couldn't find them and they had huge couldn't find them and they had huge couldn't find them and they had huge regrets. And the last one was I wish I regrets. And the last one was I wish I regrets. And the last one was I wish I had let myself be happier. And this idea had let myself be happier. And this idea had let myself be happier. And this idea is that happiness is a choice that is that happiness is a choice that is that happiness is a choice that people didn't realize that they could people didn't realize that they could people didn't realize that they could make and they stayed in comfortable make and they stayed in comfortable make and they stayed in comfortable patterns and they pretended to others patterns and they pretended to others patterns and they pretended to others and themselves that they were content and themselves that they were content and themselves that they were content and they feared change right up until and they feared change right up until and they feared change right up until change was forced upon them. And so this change was forced upon them. And so this change was forced upon them. And so this book is really good and I highly I book is really good and I highly I book is really good and I highly I should actually go and reread it cuz should actually go and reread it cuz should actually go and reread it cuz telling the summary it kind of excites telling the summary it kind of excites telling the summary it kind of excites me cuz I did feel it felt awesome me cuz I did feel it felt awesome me cuz I did feel it felt awesome reading this in a very weird way. But reading this in a very weird way. But reading this in a very weird way. But there's this man. I told you about this there's this man. I told you about this there's this man. I told you about this 96-year-old man in my building who I go 96-year-old man in my building who I go 96-year-old man in my building who I go and talk with all the time. And Gary and talk with all the time. And Gary and talk with all the time. And Gary Vaynerchuk has said this all the time Vaynerchuk has said this all the time Vaynerchuk has said this all the time that he likes to go to talk to old that he likes to go to talk to old that he likes to go to talk to old people, but I think reading this book is people, but I think reading this book is people, but I think reading this book is very similar to the joy I get. I'm very similar to the joy I get. I'm very similar to the joy I get. I'm basically to the listener, I'm friends basically to the listener, I'm friends basically to the listener, I'm friends with the 96-year-old in my building and with the 96-year-old in my building and with the 96-year-old in my building and he tells me all these type of stories he tells me all these type of stories he tells me all these type of stories and I leave feeling better. Uh part of and I leave feeling better. Uh part of and I leave feeling better. Uh part of the reason why you enjoy reading this is the reason why you enjoy reading this is the reason why you enjoy reading this is because you think because you think because you think you have wisdom, but also I can kind of you have wisdom, but also I can kind of you have wisdom, but also I can kind of learn from your mistakes which is a learn from your mistakes which is a learn from your mistakes which is a little bit of a morbid way to look at little bit of a morbid way to look at little bit of a morbid way to look at it, but it's still a useful way to look it, but it's still a useful way to look it, but it's still a useful way to look at it. And so at it. And so at it. And so I think that this book is a really good I think that this book is a really good I think that this book is a really good book for anyone to read while when book for anyone to read while when book for anyone to read while when they're asking themselves if they should they're asking themselves if they should they're asking themselves if they should follow their passion follow their passion follow their passion because the answer is almost always like because the answer is almost always like because the answer is almost always like yes, but I would argue that the answer yes, but I would argue that the answer yes, but I would argue that the answer is you should follow your passion, but is you should follow your passion, but is you should follow your passion, but your passion doesn't need to be your your passion doesn't need to be your your passion doesn't need to be your job. I have seen so many people that job. I have seen so many people that job. I have seen so many people that have made that mistake where they have made that mistake where they have made that mistake where they thought following their passion was thought following their passion was thought following their passion was following that as a career and I think following that as a career and I think following that as a career and I think that actually can be a massive massive that actually can be a massive massive that actually can be a massive massive mistake. And so for anyone listening mistake. And so for anyone listening mistake. And so for anyone listening this listening to this, I don't think this listening to this, I don't think this listening to this, I don't think and this includes us. This includes what and this includes us. This includes what and this includes us. This includes what you see on Instagram. I don't think you you see on Instagram. I don't think you you see on Instagram. I don't think you should necessarily go start a business. should necessarily go start a business. should necessarily go start a business. I don't think you should quit your job I don't think you should quit your job I don't think you should quit your job and do X, Y, and Z. If you do want to do and do X, Y, and Z. If you do want to do and do X, Y, and Z. If you do want to do that, I think try it, but you should that, I think try it, but you should that, I think try it, but you should probably save up 6 to 12 months of probably save up 6 to 12 months of probably save up 6 to 12 months of expenses and life is a lot better when expenses and life is a lot better when expenses and life is a lot better when you have financial security because you have financial security because you have financial security because there is a money may not make you happy, there is a money may not make you happy, there is a money may not make you happy, but a lack of money certainly will make but a lack of money certainly will make but a lack of money certainly will make you unhappy. And I've seen so many you unhappy. And I've seen so many you unhappy. And I've seen so many people that have followed their passion people that have followed their passion people that have followed their passion and it was a and cuz following your and it was a and cuz following your and it was a and cuz following your passion often times means creative passion often times means creative passion often times means creative pursuits, artists, things like that. You pursuits, artists, things like that. You pursuits, artists, things like that. You don't really make a good living in any don't really make a good living in any don't really make a good living in any of those things and I think there's of those things and I think there's of those things and I think there's nothing wrong with having your passion nothing wrong with having your passion nothing wrong with having your passion be your hobby. be your hobby. be your hobby. I disagree with one part of what you I disagree with one part of what you I disagree with one part of what you said which was like said which was like said which was like uh you don't have to make your passion uh you don't have to make your passion uh you don't have to make your passion your work. I get what you mean which is your work. I get what you mean which is your work. I get what you mean which is like it can be your hobby, but I would like it can be your hobby, but I would like it can be your hobby, but I would say say say probably the default mode, would you probably the default mode, would you probably the default mode, would you accept that accept that accept that most people are not lit up by what they most people are not lit up by what they most people are not lit up by what they do for work? Yeah, most people are not. do for work? Yeah, most people are not. do for work? Yeah, most people are not. Right. Most people don't don't get Right. Most people don't don't get Right. Most people don't don't get excited about Mondays. They don't wake excited about Mondays. They don't wake excited about Mondays. They don't wake up sort of tap dancing into work. up sort of tap dancing into work. up sort of tap dancing into work. According to Bill Gurley's books, 70% of According to Bill Gurley's books, 70% of According to Bill Gurley's books, 70% of people do not like how they spend their people do not like how they spend their people do not like how they spend their days. days. days. Uh right. [laughter] Uh right. [laughter] Uh right. [laughter] And I think in that book he makes a And I think in that book he makes a And I think in that book he makes a point which is like point which is like point which is like you know, 24 hours in a day, you sleep you know, 24 hours in a day, you sleep you know, 24 hours in a day, you sleep eight, that leaves 16, you work eight. eight, that leaves 16, you work eight. eight, that leaves 16, you work eight. So, half your waking hours, essentially So, half your waking hours, essentially So, half your waking hours, essentially half of your conscious life, you're half of your conscious life, you're half of your conscious life, you're going to you know, once you once you going to you know, once you once you going to you know, once you once you become of working age, you're going to become of working age, you're going to become of working age, you're going to spend you're going to spend at your job. spend you're going to spend at your job. spend you're going to spend at your job. And so, like doesn't it make sense to And so, like doesn't it make sense to And so, like doesn't it make sense to find the one that like you like to do? find the one that like you like to do? find the one that like you like to do? Right? Like that you actually enjoy Right? Like that you actually enjoy Right? Like that you actually enjoy because it's half of your life because it's half of your life because it's half of your life experience is going to be spent that experience is going to be spent that experience is going to be spent that when you're once you're of working age, when you're once you're of working age, when you're once you're of working age, once you're sort of in that 20 to 65 once you're sort of in that 20 to 65 once you're sort of in that 20 to 65 range. So, he's saying way too many range. So, he's saying way too many range. So, he's saying way too many people accept uh it is what it is people accept uh it is what it is people accept uh it is what it is on something that's too it to me I'm on something that's too it to me I'm on something that's too it to me I'm like the way too important to not accept like the way too important to not accept like the way too important to not accept that. Now, obviously like you're right that. Now, obviously like you're right that. Now, obviously like you're right that like not everybody sort of figures that like not everybody sort of figures that like not everybody sort of figures it out or makes it or whatever, but it's it out or makes it or whatever, but it's it out or makes it or whatever, but it's I don't know. To me it still seems like I don't know. To me it still seems like I don't know. To me it still seems like the you know, the quest you should go on the you know, the quest you should go on the you know, the quest you should go on that you know, the fight worth fighting that you know, the fight worth fighting that you know, the fight worth fighting for is like to to fight for that. To for is like to to fight for that. To for is like to to fight for that. To fight till you get that to fight till fight till you get that to fight till fight till you get that to fight till you get that to fight till you get that to fight till you get that to fight till >> is that it's a lot often times that >> is that it's a lot often times that >> is that it's a lot often times that answer is not entrepreneurship and it is answer is not entrepreneurship and it is answer is not entrepreneurship and it is having your a job that you love. having your a job that you love. having your a job that you love. >> Yeah, yeah, totally. >> Yeah, yeah, totally. >> Yeah, yeah, totally. >> that's sort of what I that's what I >> that's sort of what I that's what I >> that's sort of what I that's what I mean. mean. mean. Yeah, totally. I don't think it's I Yeah, totally. I don't think it's I Yeah, totally. I don't think it's I don't think it's entrepreneurship at don't think it's entrepreneurship at don't think it's entrepreneurship at all, right? Like I would say I even said all, right? Like I would say I even said all, right? Like I would say I even said for me it wasn't entrepreneurship and I for me it wasn't entrepreneurship and I for me it wasn't entrepreneurship and I was a entrepreneur. That's what I was a entrepreneur. That's what I was a entrepreneur. That's what I thought my job was for a long time. thought my job was for a long time. thought my job was for a long time. I think it's finding that loop that you I think it's finding that loop that you I think it's finding that loop that you love. If that loop is as a salesman or love. If that loop is as a salesman or love. If that loop is as a salesman or marketer or a connector or a you know, marketer or a connector or a you know, marketer or a connector or a you know, whatever it may be. There's there's many whatever it may be. There's there's many whatever it may be. There's there's many different loops, but but figuring out different loops, but but figuring out different loops, but but figuring out one that actually gives you a lot of one that actually gives you a lot of one that actually gives you a lot of energy and makes you feel alive I think energy and makes you feel alive I think energy and makes you feel alive I think is is is worth doing. I'm going to leave is is is worth doing. I'm going to leave is is is worth doing. I'm going to leave you with you with you with one quote that was said on this podcast. one quote that was said on this podcast. one quote that was said on this podcast. Isaac French came on Isaac French came on Isaac French came on and he was here to talk about his Airbnb and he was here to talk about his Airbnb and he was here to talk about his Airbnb like business where he he built this like business where he he built this like business where he he built this like a little seven cabin Airbnb like a little seven cabin Airbnb like a little seven cabin Airbnb business and sold it for seven eight business and sold it for seven eight business and sold it for seven eight million bucks. Like some some cool million bucks. Like some some cool million bucks. Like some some cool business like that. But he said this business like that. But he said this business like that. But he said this phrase. I don't remember much about the phrase. I don't remember much about the phrase. I don't remember much about the Airbnb thing, but he said this one Airbnb thing, but he said this one Airbnb thing, but he said this one phrase or a quote which was phrase or a quote which was phrase or a quote which was light yourself on fire and people will light yourself on fire and people will light yourself on fire and people will come from many miles away to watch you come from many miles away to watch you come from many miles away to watch you burn. I just thought like there's burn. I just thought like there's burn. I just thought like there's something poetic about the way he said something poetic about the way he said something poetic about the way he said it and I I do think there's a test of it and I I do think there's a test of it and I I do think there's a test of like like like could that be used to describe what I'm could that be used to describe what I'm could that be used to describe what I'm doing? Right? Like it's not a literal doing? Right? Like it's not a literal doing? Right? Like it's not a literal thing, but it's a like it's a it's thing, but it's a like it's a it's thing, but it's a like it's a it's almost like that's what level 10 looks almost like that's what level 10 looks almost like that's what level 10 looks like. Now, you might not be a 10. like. Now, you might not be a 10. like. Now, you might not be a 10. But let's let's agree that that somebody But let's let's agree that that somebody But let's let's agree that that somebody who's really lit up by the what they're who's really lit up by the what they're who's really lit up by the what they're doing that that's kind of how it would doing that that's kind of how it would doing that that's kind of how it would feel. Is that they're they've just feel. Is that they're they've just feel. Is that they're they've just decided they've lit themselves on fire decided they've lit themselves on fire decided they've lit themselves on fire with passion and they are now people with passion and they are now people with passion and they are now people will come from many miles away to watch will come from many miles away to watch will come from many miles away to watch them burn. I would say that kind of them burn. I would say that kind of them burn. I would say that kind of describes in a visual format what what describes in a visual format what what describes in a visual format what what that's supposed to look like. that's supposed to look like. that's supposed to look like. I think that's a great quote. Isaac's I think that's a great quote. Isaac's I think that's a great quote. Isaac's the man and I want to preference this by the man and I want to preference this by the man and I want to preference this by or not preference this, but I want to or not preference this, but I want to or not preference this, but I want to say that um say that um say that um this is really hard. For example, you this is really hard. For example, you this is really hard. For example, you know one of the best ways to kill know one of the best ways to kill know one of the best ways to kill passion? Sometimes I like to apartment passion? Sometimes I like to apartment passion? Sometimes I like to apartment shop. I don't intend on buying an shop. I don't intend on buying an shop. I don't intend on buying an apartment anytime soon, but today I or apartment anytime soon, but today I or apartment anytime soon, but today I or on Sunday I looked at an $18 million on Sunday I looked at an $18 million on Sunday I looked at an $18 million apartment because it was in my building apartment because it was in my building apartment because it was in my building and it was the penthouse and it was and it was the penthouse and it was and it was the penthouse and it was fancy and [ __ ] and I wanted to go look fancy and [ __ ] and I wanted to go look fancy and [ __ ] and I wanted to go look at it and there was many other people at it and there was many other people at it and there was many other people there and I went from I'm happy to there and I went from I'm happy to there and I went from I'm happy to I need more. I'm not enough. I need more. I'm not enough. I need more. I'm not enough. >> I need more. I need more. I need to do >> I need more. I need more. I need to do >> I need more. I need more. I need to do more podcasts. Screw passion. more podcasts. Screw passion. more podcasts. Screw passion. >> to your elevator to your [ __ ] Oh my >> to your elevator to your [ __ ] Oh my >> to your elevator to your [ __ ] Oh my gosh. gosh. gosh. >> Your former loving home now [ __ ] >> Your former loving home now [ __ ] >> Your former loving home now [ __ ] Have you ever done that? Have you ever Have you ever done that? Have you ever Have you ever done that? Have you ever done real life Zillow where you just done real life Zillow where you just done real life Zillow where you just like going to like I always like I'll like going to like I always like I'll like going to like I always like I'll tell my parents that I oh, I'm looking tell my parents that I oh, I'm looking tell my parents that I oh, I'm looking at an apartment and they're like you're at an apartment and they're like you're at an apartment and they're like you're looking at that apartment. I'm like looking at that apartment. I'm like looking at that apartment. I'm like the word looking I need a different the word looking I need a different the word looking I need a different word. I am I'm flipping through a word. I am I'm flipping through a word. I am I'm flipping through a catalog that's happen like that happens catalog that's happen like that happens catalog that's happen like that happens to be there. I'm not actually going to to be there. I'm not actually going to to be there. I'm not actually going to buy this apartment. And that's like the buy this apartment. And that's like the buy this apartment. And that's like the easiest way to like start like you know, easiest way to like start like you know, easiest way to like start like you know, comparison is the thief of joy. That is comparison is the thief of joy. That is comparison is the thief of joy. That is a way to kill the passion. And so, I a way to kill the passion. And so, I a way to kill the passion. And so, I think it's really challenging to fight think it's really challenging to fight think it's really challenging to fight internal rewards versus external internal rewards versus external internal rewards versus external rewards. And I and what we have just rewards. And I and what we have just rewards. And I and what we have just said sounds really great and what Isaac said sounds really great and what Isaac said sounds really great and what Isaac said is really great, but I also want to said is really great, but I also want to said is really great, but I also want to acknowledge it's incredibly challenging acknowledge it's incredibly challenging acknowledge it's incredibly challenging to pull off. to pull off. to pull off. My analogy is this. I took my kids to My analogy is this. I took my kids to My analogy is this. I took my kids to the airport and you know how you have to the airport and you know how you have to the airport and you know how you have to take those like airport trams like the take those like airport trams like the take those like airport trams like the little like little like little like the the the I don't know why we're at the airport, I don't know why we're at the airport, I don't know why we're at the airport, but we're taking a train inside the but we're taking a train inside the but we're taking a train inside the airport from like one part to another. airport from like one part to another. airport from like one part to another. And my kids have never done this before. And my kids have never done this before. And my kids have never done this before. So, they get on, they're super excited. So, they get on, they're super excited. So, they get on, they're super excited. Oh, we're on like a train. And Oh, we're on like a train. And Oh, we're on like a train. And I'm like hey, grab the bar and they're I'm like hey, grab the bar and they're I'm like hey, grab the bar and they're like why? Cuz the train hasn't moved like why? Cuz the train hasn't moved like why? Cuz the train hasn't moved yet. They're like what what do you mean? yet. They're like what what do you mean? yet. They're like what what do you mean? I'm fine. I'm like no, no, hold on to I'm fine. I'm like no, no, hold on to I'm fine. I'm like no, no, hold on to this. It's about to it's about to go. this. It's about to it's about to go. this. It's about to it's about to go. And they're like no, no, I just want to And they're like no, no, I just want to And they're like no, no, I just want to balance. This is going to be fun. And I balance. This is going to be fun. And I balance. This is going to be fun. And I was like all right. Train starts. was like all right. Train starts. was like all right. Train starts. 30 lb daughter goes flying into 30 lb daughter goes flying into 30 lb daughter goes flying into someone's suitcase right away. Gets someone's suitcase right away. Gets someone's suitcase right away. Gets rocked by the world. And I would say rocked by the world. And I would say rocked by the world. And I would say like a lot of advice like a lot of advice like a lot of advice that falls into this kind of easier said that falls into this kind of easier said that falls into this kind of easier said than done bucket is really like it's the than done bucket is really like it's the than done bucket is really like it's the internal soul equivalent of holding onto internal soul equivalent of holding onto internal soul equivalent of holding onto the pole cuz trust me this world's about the pole cuz trust me this world's about the pole cuz trust me this world's about to rock you. And if you're not holding to rock you. And if you're not holding to rock you. And if you're not holding onto this, you stand no chance. You will onto this, you stand no chance. You will onto this, you stand no chance. You will go flying into that man's suitcase right go flying into that man's suitcase right go flying into that man's suitcase right now. And so, like the idea of like yeah, now. And so, like the idea of like yeah, now. And so, like the idea of like yeah, you you do want to figure out you know, you you do want to figure out you know, you you do want to figure out you know, what lights you up, what makes you feel what lights you up, what makes you feel what lights you up, what makes you feel alive, not what sounds good to others. alive, not what sounds good to others. alive, not what sounds good to others. You do want to figure out an internal You do want to figure out an internal You do want to figure out an internal reward and a scorecard so that you're reward and a scorecard so that you're reward and a scorecard so that you're not going to the $18 million penthouse not going to the $18 million penthouse not going to the $18 million penthouse and feeling like you need more when you and feeling like you need more when you and feeling like you need more when you walk out of there. And so, it's like you walk out of there. And so, it's like you walk out of there. And so, it's like you need all this generic cliche goddamn need all this generic cliche goddamn need all this generic cliche goddamn advice because it's the equivalent of advice because it's the equivalent of advice because it's the equivalent of the pole to hold onto. If you don't have the pole to hold onto. If you don't have the pole to hold onto. If you don't have it, you're going to go you're just going it, you're going to go you're just going it, you're going to go you're just going to get whiplash by the world. You're to get whiplash by the world. You're to get whiplash by the world. You're just going to constantly be be just going to constantly be be just going to constantly be be whiplashed. And holding it's you know, whiplashed. And holding it's you know, whiplashed. And holding it's you know, you're still going to feel it when the you're still going to feel it when the you're still going to feel it when the the train jerks you around, but like now the train jerks you around, but like now the train jerks you around, but like now imagine like that's that's to me like imagine like that's that's to me like imagine like that's that's to me like the metaphor of of like how this sort of the metaphor of of like how this sort of the metaphor of of like how this sort of like grounded advice plays into the you like grounded advice plays into the you like grounded advice plays into the you know, to daily life which is going to know, to daily life which is going to know, to daily life which is going to whip you around. I call it braces money. whip you around. I call it braces money. whip you around. I call it braces money. I had a friend that I had a friend that I had a friend that had this amazing job and he was like I had this amazing job and he was like I had this amazing job and he was like I used to just sail. Like I would like he used to just sail. Like I would like he used to just sail. Like I would like he was like I was like a $30,000 was like I was like a $30,000 was like I was like a $30,000 millionaire. I would like save up 30 millionaire. I would like save up 30 millionaire. I would like save up 30 grand and then go and like sail. And grand and then go and like sail. And grand and then go and like sail. And then he's like I had a kid and I then he's like I had a kid and I then he's like I had a kid and I realized I wanted to buy them braces cuz realized I wanted to buy them braces cuz realized I wanted to buy them braces cuz that was my passion more so than that was my passion more so than that was my passion more so than sailing. And so, I got this really great sailing. And so, I got this really great sailing. And so, I got this really great job so I could have braces money because job so I could have braces money because job so I could have braces money because I realized I'm passionate about that as I realized I'm passionate about that as I realized I'm passionate about that as well, not just sailing. well, not just sailing. well, not just sailing. >> [laughter] >> I want to leave leave one other point >> I want to leave leave one other point which is when you if you accept that the which is when you if you accept that the which is when you if you accept that the trick to figuring this out trick to figuring this out trick to figuring this out is following your enthusiasm, especially is following your enthusiasm, especially is following your enthusiasm, especially things you're enthusiastic about that things you're enthusiastic about that things you're enthusiastic about that others are not, especially things that others are not, especially things that others are not, especially things that you're willing to suffer for, you're willing to suffer for, you're willing to suffer for, the blisters, the blisters, the blisters, then there's two two kind of takeaways. then there's two two kind of takeaways. then there's two two kind of takeaways. The first is name the blisters. So, it's The first is name the blisters. So, it's The first is name the blisters. So, it's really easy when you go into something really easy when you go into something really easy when you go into something to just only focus on the outcome. It's to just only focus on the outcome. It's to just only focus on the outcome. It's like oh yeah, I'm going to go I'm going like oh yeah, I'm going to go I'm going like oh yeah, I'm going to go I'm going to start working out cuz I really want to start working out cuz I really want to start working out cuz I really want to be in shape. I really want to be fit. to be in shape. I really want to be fit. to be in shape. I really want to be fit. I want to be I want to have you know, a I want to be I want to have you know, a I want to be I want to have you know, a six pack. Okay, cool. I want to be six pack. Okay, cool. I want to be six pack. Okay, cool. I want to be jacked. Name the blisters. The blisters jacked. Name the blisters. The blisters jacked. Name the blisters. The blisters is I'm going to be waking up at this is I'm going to be waking up at this is I'm going to be waking up at this time. I'm going to be going to gym on time. I'm going to be going to gym on time. I'm going to be going to gym on days I don't even feel like it. I'm days I don't even feel like it. I'm days I don't even feel like it. I'm going to have to push myself when I'm going to have to push myself when I'm going to have to push myself when I'm there. I'm not going to be looking at my there. I'm not going to be looking at my there. I'm not going to be looking at my phone. I'm going to be pushing myself phone. I'm going to be pushing myself phone. I'm going to be pushing myself till failure on a bunch of different till failure on a bunch of different till failure on a bunch of different sets. I'm going to have to you know, sets. I'm going to have to you know, sets. I'm going to have to you know, watch what I eat. I'm going to have to watch what I eat. I'm going to have to watch what I eat. I'm going to have to right? So, you have to like it's the right? So, you have to like it's the right? So, you have to like it's the blisters that decide whether you're blisters that decide whether you're blisters that decide whether you're going to like it or not much more so going to like it or not much more so going to like it or not much more so than the rewards. And so, figure out than the rewards. And so, figure out than the rewards. And so, figure out when you're when you're looking at what when you're when you're looking at what when you're when you're looking at what loop I like, like just loop I like, like just loop I like, like just the blisters are actually pretty the blisters are actually pretty the blisters are actually pretty obvious. You can actually know what they obvious. You can actually know what they obvious. You can actually know what they are and you decide if you're good with are and you decide if you're good with are and you decide if you're good with those or not. So, that's the first those or not. So, that's the first those or not. So, that's the first thing. Be up front about those. The thing. Be up front about those. The thing. Be up front about those. The second is second is second is there's a great art of noticing. there's a great art of noticing. there's a great art of noticing. So, you have to learn to notice in So, you have to learn to notice in So, you have to learn to notice in yourself where you have some weird yourself where you have some weird yourself where you have some weird irrational disproportionate enthusiasm irrational disproportionate enthusiasm irrational disproportionate enthusiasm or where you're willing to go further or where you're willing to go further or where you're willing to go further than most people or the mastery that than most people or the mastery that than most people or the mastery that you're you're enjoying picking up and you're you're enjoying picking up and you're you're enjoying picking up and what that mastery actually is cuz it's what that mastery actually is cuz it's what that mastery actually is cuz it's not always doesn't always have a really not always doesn't always have a really not always doesn't always have a really clean label that other people have told clean label that other people have told clean label that other people have told you about. And also that sometimes other you about. And also that sometimes other you about. And also that sometimes other people will notice it for you. There's people will notice it for you. There's people will notice it for you. There's this I'll give you two examples. Naval this I'll give you two examples. Naval this I'll give you two examples. Naval who's somebody I think we both kind of who's somebody I think we both kind of who's somebody I think we both kind of admire. admire. admire. He tells a story about when he was a kid He tells a story about when he was a kid He tells a story about when he was a kid he thought being a scientist was what he he thought being a scientist was what he he thought being a scientist was what he was going to be. He thought scientists was going to be. He thought scientists was going to be. He thought scientists were the highest calling. They were the were the highest calling. They were the were the highest calling. They were the truth seekers. They were the ones who truth seekers. They were the ones who truth seekers. They were the ones who invented things. Like that's what he invented things. Like that's what he invented things. Like that's what he wanted to do. And his mom was like oh, I wanted to do. And his mom was like oh, I wanted to do. And his mom was like oh, I don't know. I think you're going to be a don't know. I think you're going to be a don't know. I think you're going to be a businessman. He's like businessman. I businessman. He's like businessman. I businessman. He's like businessman. I never said anything about businessman. never said anything about businessman. never said anything about businessman. She's like you never said it, but you're She's like you never said it, but you're She's like you never said it, but you're always doing it. He's what? She goes always doing it. He's what? She goes always doing it. He's what? She goes yeah, like every time we walk in that yeah, like every time we walk in that yeah, like every time we walk in that pizza shop you tell me how they're doing pizza shop you tell me how they're doing pizza shop you tell me how they're doing this this and this wrong. Like they this this and this wrong. Like they this this and this wrong. Like they should be doing this instead. What this should be doing this instead. What this should be doing this instead. What this company should do instead. And and she's company should do instead. And and she's company should do instead. And and she's like I think that's just how your mind like I think that's just how your mind like I think that's just how your mind actually works. And he's like she actually works. And he's like she actually works. And he's like she spotted it when I couldn't. Um and then spotted it when I couldn't. Um and then spotted it when I couldn't. Um and then I don't know if you saw Adam Neumann I don't know if you saw Adam Neumann I don't know if you saw Adam Neumann from WeWork went on Rick Rubin's podcast from WeWork went on Rick Rubin's podcast from WeWork went on Rick Rubin's podcast and a bunch of people are saying and a bunch of people are saying and a bunch of people are saying >> but you Austin Reef who I think told you >> but you Austin Reef who I think told you >> but you Austin Reef who I think told you or you saw his thing. Austin kept kept or you saw his thing. Austin kept kept or you saw his thing. Austin kept kept saying it's like one of the greatest saying it's like one of the greatest saying it's like one of the greatest he's like Adam gets a lot of hate, but he's like Adam gets a lot of hate, but he's like Adam gets a lot of hate, but he is really worth listening to here. he is really worth listening to here. he is really worth listening to here. Yeah, Austin was the one who was like Yeah, Austin was the one who was like Yeah, Austin was the one who was like kept talking about it. He's like dude, kept talking about it. He's like dude, kept talking about it. He's like dude, he's a master storyteller. He's like I he's a master storyteller. He's like I he's a master storyteller. He's like I can't believe you're not more obsessed can't believe you're not more obsessed can't believe you're not more obsessed with him. And I was like what? What kind with him. And I was like what? What kind with him. And I was like what? What kind of reverse neg? Okay, I'm interested. of reverse neg? Okay, I'm interested. of reverse neg? Okay, I'm interested. So, I watched it. And he tells a story So, I watched it. And he tells a story So, I watched it. And he tells a story about WeWork where he he actually was about WeWork where he he actually was about WeWork where he he actually was working on a kids clothing brand before working on a kids clothing brand before working on a kids clothing brand before WeWork and it wasn't working. He was WeWork and it wasn't working. He was WeWork and it wasn't working. He was failing at it. And his he's asking I failing at it. And his he's asking I failing at it. And his he's asking I think his girlfriend at the time think his girlfriend at the time think his girlfriend at the time well, what do you think I should do? And well, what do you think I should do? And well, what do you think I should do? And she's like real estate. And he's like she's like real estate. And he's like she's like real estate. And he's like I've never done real what where'd that I've never done real what where'd that I've never done real what where'd that come from? Random? I've never done come from? Random? I've never done come from? Random? I've never done anything in real estate. anything in real estate. anything in real estate. She goes I think you should do real She goes I think you should do real She goes I think you should do real estate because whenever we're walking on estate because whenever we're walking on estate because whenever we're walking on the street she goes a man's eyes can go the street she goes a man's eyes can go the street she goes a man's eyes can go in many places walking down the street in many places walking down the street in many places walking down the street in New York. You can look at the woman in New York. You can look at the woman in New York. You can look at the woman who's who just passed you. You can look who's who just passed you. You can look who's who just passed you. You can look at the dogs. You can look at you can at the dogs. You can look at you can at the dogs. You can look at you can look at many things. The food. You can look at many things. The food. You can look at many things. The food. You can look at all kinds of things. Your eyes look at all kinds of things. Your eyes look at all kinds of things. Your eyes go up. You're always looking at the go up. You're always looking at the go up. You're always looking at the buildings and what's in these buildings buildings and what's in these buildings buildings and what's in these buildings and how they could how they work and you and how they could how they work and you and how they could how they work and you know, why this what this building could know, why this what this building could know, why this what this building could be for than what it is for. She goes I be for than what it is for. She goes I be for than what it is for. She goes I think you should be in real estate. And think you should be in real estate. And think you should be in real estate. And like okay, this honestly the story like okay, this honestly the story like okay, this honestly the story sounds a little bit like reverse sounds a little bit like reverse sounds a little bit like reverse engineering. engineering. engineering. >> have heard no, I have heard I think her >> have heard no, I have heard I think her >> have heard no, I have heard I think her name's Rebecca. The wife is Rebecca name's Rebecca. The wife is Rebecca name's Rebecca. The wife is Rebecca Neumann. I have heard five to 10 and the Neumann. I have heard five to 10 and the Neumann. I have heard five to 10 and the Neumanns are storytellers. So, it could Neumanns are storytellers. So, it could Neumanns are storytellers. So, it could all be fake. I have heard five stories all be fake. I have heard five stories all be fake. I have heard five stories about Rebecca being the one, you know, about Rebecca being the one, you know, about Rebecca being the one, you know, whatever they say like behind every whatever they say like behind every whatever they say like behind every successful man is a is like a woman like successful man is a is like a woman like successful man is a is like a woman like pushing him. I have heard like five pushing him. I have heard like five pushing him. I have heard like five stories of her being like the Adam stories of her being like the Adam stories of her being like the Adam whisper [clears throat] whisper [clears throat] whisper [clears throat] and like pointing him in the direction. and like pointing him in the direction. and like pointing him in the direction. I would we I would we I would we Adam would be great. I would like to Adam would be great. I would like to Adam would be great. I would like to have her on. have her on. have her on. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, everyone needs a Rebecca in their >> Yeah, everyone needs a Rebecca in their >> Yeah, everyone needs a Rebecca in their lives. lives. lives. That's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. And what did you learn from the pod? And what did you learn from the pod? And what did you learn from the pod? >> wife has never listened to this podcast? >> wife has never listened to this podcast? >> wife has never listened to this podcast? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Isn't that hilarious? >> Isn't that hilarious? >> Isn't that hilarious? You want to talk [ __ ] You want to talk [ __ ] You want to talk [ __ ] Say something bad about her right now. Say something bad about her right now. Say something bad about her right now. >> my safe space. This is the only place >> my safe space. This is the only place >> my safe space. This is the only place >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I can say anything. I know she'll never >> I can say anything. I know she'll never >> I can say anything. I know she'll never find it. find it. find it. >> Yeah, talk trash about her right now. Um what else you got? Do you want to you Um what else you got? Do you want to you want to talk about anything else? No, I want to talk about anything else? No, I want to talk about anything else? No, I do, but I don't think it I do, but I don't think it I do, but I don't think it I think we're good here. think we're good here. think we're good here. Okay. I think that's a good place Okay. I think that's a good place Okay. I think that's a good place >> Is that Is that what was So who's the >> Is that Is that what was So who's the >> Is that Is that what was So who's the guy's name? Douglas? Douglas. Shout out guy's name? Douglas? Douglas. Shout out guy's name? Douglas? Douglas. Shout out Douglas. Was he shirtless in Austin? Cuz Douglas. Was he shirtless in Austin? Cuz Douglas. Was he shirtless in Austin? Cuz that's like what everyone does. Does he that's like what everyone does. Does he that's like what everyone does. Does he walk around shirtless and barefoot in walk around shirtless and barefoot in walk around shirtless and barefoot in Austin? Austin? Austin? >> a mustache. Everybody in Austin has a >> a mustache. Everybody in Austin has a >> a mustache. Everybody in Austin has a mustache. mustache. mustache. Hybrid athletes, baby. That's when Hybrid athletes, baby. That's when Hybrid athletes, baby. That's when you're buff and you run. That's the move you're buff and you run. That's the move you're buff and you run. That's the move in Austin. I'm trying to figure out how in Austin. I'm trying to figure out how in Austin. I'm trying to figure out how to brand the hybrid athlete of uh to brand the hybrid athlete of uh to brand the hybrid athlete of uh business where you have the success, but business where you have the success, but business where you have the success, but you don't have the like grind culture you don't have the like grind culture you don't have the like grind culture suffering mindset, right? Like the suffering mindset, right? Like the suffering mindset, right? Like the Goggins Hormozi like it's just about Goggins Hormozi like it's just about Goggins Hormozi like it's just about pain. That's what it is. You need to not pain. That's what it is. You need to not pain. That's what it is. You need to not see your family and not do this, not do see your family and not do this, not do see your family and not do this, not do that. It's like, I don't know, man. I'm that. It's like, I don't know, man. I'm that. It's like, I don't know, man. I'm doing this I'm doing this other way and doing this I'm doing this other way and doing this I'm doing this other way and I do it's working pretty well for me. I I do it's working pretty well for me. I I do it's working pretty well for me. I don't know what to call this, but it's don't know what to call this, but it's don't know what to call this, but it's sort of like hybrid athlete like sort of like hybrid athlete like sort of like hybrid athlete like >> You can be jacked and run. >> You can be jacked and run. >> You can be jacked and run. It's like, oh, that that makes sense to It's like, oh, that that makes sense to It's like, oh, that that makes sense to me. me. me. Yeah, everyone in Austin's that way. Um Yeah, everyone in Austin's that way. Um Yeah, everyone in Austin's that way. Um all right, that's it. That's the pod.