How to Build a Bulletproof Mindset Through Preparation | Ed Mylett

Key Takeaway

Excellence, not perfection, should be your standard. Michael Chandler reveals how chasing perfection caused his first major loss, teaching him that success comes from daily 1% improvements rather than impossible standards. Stop measuring yourself against perfection—instead, focus on becoming excellent in the areas that matter while giving yourself grace to remain human.

Episode Overview

UFC fighter Michael Chandler shares his journey from small-town Missouri to becoming a top-ranked lightweight fighter, discussing the mental game of combat sports. The conversation explores his walk-on mentality, the dangers of perfectionism, importance of faith and gratitude, and how he trains to be the best version of himself rather than focusing on opponents. Key themes include embracing uncertainty, maintaining the 'God still loves me, my family still loves me, and I still love me' mantra, and understanding that preparation breeds confidence.

Full Transcript

Transcript of How to Build a Bulletproof Mindset Through Preparation | Ed Mylett from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Hey everyone, welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Hit that like button and be sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel so you never miss my show whether it's Tuesday, Thursday, or Saturday. Here's our first guest. Okay, question. You said something. There's so much depth to you. Earlier you said, "I'm not training against the dude necessarily that I'm fighting next. I'm not even training against the dude that I spar with." I think so many people that want to be high achievers compare themselves to the person in the cubicle next to them or in their current office, you know, or in the local area as opposed to the standard, the best possible standard.

So, could you just speak to that a minute about training to a standard compared to just the opponent or just the sparring partner or just what's in the gym that day because that holds us back as well. True. True. Yeah. And I and I think it's I mean for for me people ask they're always asking about my opponent. My opponent he's he's this tall. He's got these attributes. He's got these accolades. And accolades. And accolades. And without sounding cocky like I'm not like I'm looking past the opponent.

Truthfully, I can tell you this with 100% certainty that I don't need to be I don't need to train to beat that opponent. I just need to be the best version of myself that night inside the octagon. I need to be the Michael Chandler with zero hindrances, zero second-guing, zero fears, and only faith and and excitement about becoming my best self. If I can if I can get done with that fight, get my hand raised, and have zero regrets about my performance, knowing that I performed at the highest level that I possibly could that night, then there's not a man on this planet that can beat me.

And I truly believe that. So, and I So, my prayer before the fight isn't God give me the victory or God let my opponent stumble. My prayer is God, just let me perform like I trained. Let me perform in a manner that is consistent with the way that you see me, God. And that is consistent with my gifts and my abilities that you've blessed me with. Because I, like I said, I truly believe that in that moment, if I'm inside that octagon and that cage door closes, if I perform at the be at my best, I'm not going to lose.

And this isn't like, and this isn't kind of the hurrah, well, you gave it your best, so you you really didn't lose even if you did lose. did lose. did lose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is this, you know, like they say, well, if you gave your best, you didn't lose. You know, that's true in a lot of senses, but also I'm more just saying that if I can go out there and get in that flow state, there's nobody that can beat me. And I truly believe that.

So, so how do you get how do you make sure that you perform that way? Well, you can't ever make sure with 100% certainty. We're going to have bad days. We're going to have off nights. We're going to have bad performances no matter what. what. what. But number one, never being afraid of having a bad performance. Number two, being okay with the uncertainty that's about to ensue. I mean, you can't really think of a of a career more volatile than mixed martial arts. Being inside of a cage, locked inside of a cage, being tied onto a tornado.

You have to be okay with the uncertainty that's about to happen. And for me, I always say, you know, win, lose, or draw, I I'm going to be okay because my God still loves me. My family still loves me, and I still love me. And the hardest thing was I always knew my God loved me. I always knew my knew my family loved me. But that hardest part was and I still love me. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but you have to be okay with the uncertainty that's about to happen.

Yeah. You talk about every area of life, being willing to embrace uncertainty and run towards it. On the other side of uncertainty is everything you want. Best relationship you've ever had. There's no certainty to it, right? There's no certainty to that at all. Any great victory, anything you've ever done, it has you have to go through the uncertainty barrier. Everyone say your comfort zone. Forget all that comfort zone. You got to go through complete uncertainty. uncertainty. uncertainty. You the other thing too for me, I don't know if you relate to this or not.

I'm just curious just curious just curious that I love me. Third one's my issue, too. too. too. And I've gotten a lot better that over the years. And one of the reasons I don't mean overly hokey here. with one of the toughest men in the world. But one of the reasons that I would not give myself love or affirmation or permission to like myself even if I'm being completely candid like actually like myself so everybody knows is to me I had to be perfect and if I wasn't perfect I didn't I wasn't worthy of really liking or loving myself and perfect is a copout standard.

Perfect is impossible. But I've kind of heard you talk about this a little bit too. This notion of the perfect fight or the perfect sparring session or the perfect husband, right? The perfect man of faith. Well, you're going to miss that one every time. So, if that's your standard, you have wired yourself for misery. And then it stumbles into, at least for me, kind of this cycle of lack of confidence because I'm not hitting the promise I made myself, which was perfection. Because self-confidence is keeping the promises you make to yourself.

So, I'm just curious how that plays with you. 100%. And that's, you know, I think especially whenever you and not to get overly, you know, overly spiritual about it, but when you when you truly believe that God, you know, Rick Warren's purpose- driven life, that's that's that's what everybody wants, right? How do I find my purpose? Whenever you feel like you found your purpose, and I I truly believe that mixed martial arts, being put on a platform through mixed martial arts is my purpose. So, I found my purpose.

So, it's God ordained. So, if it's God ordained, then okay, I got to be perfect, right? Because this is the gift that I'm trying to give God. And God deserves, we all know God deserves a perfect gift. When really, he's looking down on us saying, "You're all you are all flawed individuals. I made you perfect in in in the image of myself, but you are made perfect through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross." Right? So, so we are striving for perfection. And that's and that's really truthfully, if I'm being honest, why my first loss happened.

So, really, I go out and Yes. And I win. I win my I beat Eddie Alvarez. I become the number three guy in the entire world. Everybody's saying Michael Chandler is the next big thing. So immediately, okay, I'm the number three guy in the world. Everybody wants me to go win the UFC title when I'm done with my Bellator contract. Media is talking about me award after award. You know, this guy's the next big thing. So what do I say in my human brain? Okay, now I got to be perfect, right?

Before I was just trying to go before I was just shooting off the cuff. I was working hard. I was doing things right. I was living living the champion lifestyle. But now that I am the champion, now I got to be perfect. So what did I do in instead of instead of taking my training to the next level, it went down in the dumps because just as you said, every sparring session was another opportunity to be imperfect. You know, I could win four minutes and 58 seconds of a of a round, but it was that two seconds that I lost that told me in my mind I lost that round.

I could have hit a guy a thousand times with the best combinations in the world, but I got popped once with a jab and immediately my mind said, "Michael, you're not perfect yet." you know, I could lift a thousand pounds, but well, Michael, you're not perfect because that guy over there could lift a thousand and two pounds, you know. So, I gave I started I started living in this jail cell inside my brain of perfect and there was it was impossibly perfect. And it wasn't until my mentor Chris Patterson talked about instead of trying to be perfect, why don't you just focus on success?

So because success can be gained 1% 1% 1% every single day and over a long career. You know I I can joke about it now but it took me 12 years to become an over overnight success. Now all of a sudden I'm Michael Chandler UFC lightweight number four in the world. Probably going to win the UFC title here in the next calendar year. But it took me 12 years to become this success named Michael Chandler. Right? So, I just needed to start just stop putting so much pressure on myself to be perfect and just put the pressure on myself and the friendly pressure on myself to be above board to be to be excellent but not be perfect.

There's there's a lot of different things that we can strive for that are just below perfect that that allow you just enough grace, just enough just enough leeway to still love yourself through your trials, through your through your bad days. Because let's be honest, man, it doesn't matter. You you speak to a lot of high performers, millionaires, billionaires, the people at the highest level. They have their bad days. They have their ups and they have their downs. And it's in those downs. It's in those bad days where they can continue to motivate, continue to see through the mud, see through the muck towards a brighter future, knowing that the sun really the sun did go down today, but it will rise again tomorrow.

And our best day could be tomorrow, even if we had a bad day today. today. today. This is one of these shows, brother, I will listen to back several times. So, one of the things that's really true is when I started to really work with, you know, what everyone would call, you know, higher elite performers or whatever it was, this is many, many years ago. I come home and think to myself, man, these are very human beings, you know, like I was struck by their humanity.

I was struck by their frailties. I was struck by their some of their weaknesses. And it actually gave me hope. I think that's what you're doing right now. And we've all heard this thing like comparison is just this deadly game to play. Compare with another person. compar the worst comparison is to perfection because that's a standard you're going to miss every single time. You literally wired yourself for pain. I'm just curious about fighting in general. By the way, I love Chris Patterson. I just want to make sure I stick that in there.

In fact, that's how you and I met. Um, let me ask you this question. I'm just curious. Is there fear before a fight for you? In other words, 10 minutes out, you're going to go in there. This is the thing about fighting that I think people just forget because it almost looks like a video game when you're watching it on TV for guys, right? I've had the pleasure of being in the cage a little bit myself. And so I know what it's like. Not like you do, but there's another man in there.

You can't hide. They close the door. Michelle Wat said on the show, you know, and there's you and another man. That's the ultimate form of combat. It's the ultimate form of you dealing with you, ironically, as you said. Do you have fear in those moments? Or is there no fear because of confidence, because of faith, because of preparation? Or what do you do with the fear if you do have it? it? it? you know, I I actually there there is no fear of the physical, you know, um could I get injured?

Of course. Could I break a bone? Could I, you know, even worse, could I end up could Could tonight be the night that my career just ends? Career into injury? Of course, those things could happen. But once again, as I was alluding to earlier, if you're afraid of that uncertainty that's about to happen, if you're if you're afraid of that physical aspect of the fight, it's going to be tough because you're you're not going to be not going to you're not going to be fighting in that flow state.

You're not going to be fighting at at your at your top level. Me standing across a wrestling mat or standing across a cage from another man, my size doesn't doesn't scare me. The biggest fears that I have are uh you know, going out there and performing at a subpar level. Well, not just subpar, but you know, yep. yep. yep. A really bad level, right? You know, we've all had those moments where we we you know, you get get back into your car after a meeting or for me go back to the locker room after a fight and you just you just take a deep breath and you take a step back and say, "What just happened?" Like that was that was such a bad performance.

And and I've had those and those are those are the worst that's the worst feeling in the entire world. Because for a mixed martial artist, you know, we only get two, maybe three opportunities a year to showcase our skills in in a cage in front of millions of people. So, there's so much writing on that one performance. But I've gotten to the point where on this once again going back to no matter what, win or lo win, lose or draw, my God still loves me, my family still loves me, and I still love me.

And because I've gotten to that point, knowing that once again, leaning on the fact that I'm not going to be perfect, just trying to be successful. You know, if I would have hang my hat hung my hat on the couple losses that I had in my past, I never would have got here to become the overnight success who is Michael Chandler in the UFC, right? You know, it took a took a long time for me to get here, but I I'm a battleh hardened veteran. I'm I was galvanized by the road that I took.

You know, I was I was a new name to a lot of people when I made my UFC debut back in January at UFC 257, but I was not a new name to to the true MMA fans. I was not a new mixed martial artist, a new professional fighter. Um, for me, all roads had led to to me being backstage at that UFC 257. But it it's almost a weird parallel because before I felt like I always had something to lose. When I was fighting in Bellator, I was fighting a lot of guys who who I was supposed to beat in the first round.

There was almost there was almost no way to win or it be a a positive outcome unless I went out there and finished somebody in the first round. And you're talking about fighting fighting world class. They're still world class athletes. They still train every single day. They're still across the cage from you wanting to rip your head off just like you want to do the same. But I was always fighting guys who for the most part were ranked below me. Yeah. And I had to go out there and have a dominant performance.

So I could go out there and if I beat someone in the second round, people would always say, "Well, you should have beat him in the first round. You're you're Michael Chandler. You're supposed to be that much better than them." Whereas them." Whereas them." Whereas this was also a beautiful thing at UFC 257. I was fighting Dan Hooker, the number five, number six guy in the world. I had nothing to lose, you know. So, it was a that was a beautiful feeling having nothing to lose because I would venture to say that the guy the underdog is in is is so in such more of an advantageous situation because they have nothing to lose compared to the guy who is on top who has everything to lose every single time he steps into an arena.

And I got I got to that point at UFC 257. And luckily for me, I'm going to be an underdog the next fight. Probably an under underdog the next fight. So, y you're going to see the best version of myself for sure the next couple fights. I was going to say to you, I want you to remind yourself of that no matter what situation you're in because you're exactly right. In every situation, it's the illusion of loss that causes us to underperform. So, if you can always not give yourself this bogus illusion of loss, even if you're the world champion in anything you do, even if you're the best, when I'm on a speaking ticket and there's 10 other speakers, but everyone maybe assumes in that case potentially I should dominate that stage when I speak.

I don't let myself think that there's an illusion of loss coming if someone if I don't live up to my game because that's when I slip. I've I that that idea of that subpar fight, I just had a subpar engagement recently. But for me, every time I've had one of those what just happened moments, if I'm really self-reflective, and it's really self-reflection, there was something in my preparation that I could have done better there. It's always back to me. Like you said earlier, it's not my opponent, especially in business.

It's always preparation. How much of your conf? And when in this particular situation, there were a couple things where I said to myself literally, "What just happened?" No joke. And by the time I got on the plane to come home, I'm like, I know exactly what happened. I'm BSing myself. Here's what happened. I took a little bit for granted this one area that's my big strength. I didn't need to work on that preparing for this. Turns out I did. Right. And so, is that for you usually the answer to what just happened?

And how much of your confidence is linked to preparation? being being the small guy from the small town who had to always fight and scrap and claw his way to be being seen by the coaches or being seen by by the team. Um, I had to be the hardest worker in the room. You know, I I I talk about the walk-on mentality. You know, I I walked on to the University of Missouri. There was 16 guys in my in my in my class. Only two of us ended up becoming all-Americans.

And one of them was going to become an all-American. His name was Raymond Jordan. He was a state champion from Newburn, North Carolina. He was my my roommate. He was going he was destined for big things. He was full ride scholarship guy. But I was the walk-on guy. I was the guy who the coaches didn't look at for a whole year. Didn't say a word to for the whole year. So, you know, me being the naive young guy, uh, I had to outwork everybody. I was the first one at practice.

I was the last one to leave. I was putting in the extra reps. And and although that might might sound a little bit um I guess maybe insecure to a lot of maybe people listening right now, you still have to have that walk-on mentality. That mentality that says even though I've gotten to where I am now, even though there's a couple zeros in my bank account, even though I got this name, even though I have this account, even though I have this level of of success, I have this level of of platform, you still have to be working every single day like you're a walk-on.

Um so for me my my preparation is the most important part. I I know for a fact that if I step inside the cage and there is doubts about my preparation I'm never ever going to perform at a at the highest level. Now, I might win the fight still. I might win um the contest, so to speak, but there still will be that some self-reflecting of you. You got kind of lucky because you slacked in this area. You slacked in that area. And that's I think what a lot of high achievers do.

They they hold themselves to a higher standard. Not the per not the perfection standard. standard. standard. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's that's where you fall into that that valley of of trying to be too perfect, but that level of excellence. Am I excellent in all these areas that I need to be excellent in? And if that answer is no, then chances are you're going to get you're you're going to be in a spot that you're leaving yourself open to having failures and having loss. I just think it's amazing that when you walk into an octagon, you walk into the cage.

By the way, I'm going to take this from you myself. God still loves me. My family still loves me. I still love me. Everybody listening to the show should be writing that down or watching the show. That'll be a mantra you give yourself the gift of on a very regular basis. What a beautiful reminder as you're going into combat. It's just amazing that [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] that's what you're saying to yourself. Okay. Physical Okay. Physical Okay. Physical uh when I look at you and I, you know, I'm around a lot of athletes.

I see a superior physical specimen. And even as you've gotten older, I look at you six, seven years ago. I look at a dude now. This is a superior physical specimen. And I for a lot of my self-confidence just comes from my physicality. I'm not the same as you obviously, but I think self-confidence can come from moving your body. It's one of the first places everybody listening or watching this can transform their self-confidence because it's something you can control. You can't control a sales call or a close or the amount of money you've got or even how someone's treating you in a relationship.

Is there something specific you've done the last two or three years? Is it is it heavier lifting? Is it incorporating more weights? Is it, you know, like in Brady's case, it's all this plyometric stuff he's doing to be more pliable? What is it for you that's made you I mean to me maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you were be physically better before but you look physically better to me now. Am I right about that and what's the difference? difference? difference? Um I think you are right about that.

I think I think I when I got into the sport I was already going to be um more athletic or stronger physically than a lot of people because of my my wrestling background. Division one wrestling in my opinion is the hardest most physically demanding uh sport in the entire world. So, I when I was going to come from division one wrestling into the sport of mixed martial arts where these guys had just been training mixed martial arts, I knew for for sure I was going to be faster than them, stronger than them, I wasn't going to have great striking.

I wasn't going to have great submissions or submission defense necessarily, but I was going to be a good athlete coming from wrestling. Since then, I've always trained to become the best athlete I can possibly be. And it was actually interesting that you say that because there was a young football player from MCSU here in Nashville. I was training with my trainer and he asked my trainer. He said, "Hey, Jay Holt, if you've never fought before, how do you train a fighter?" And I love that I heard it because I wanted to hear his his his uh his response.

And his response was, "Well, we're just training to become a better athlete." Because I say if I can be the better athlete in in the cage that night, it might not win me the fight for sure, but it will put me head and shoulders above my opponent when it comes to speed, quickness, changing angles, closing the distance, uh strength, picking a guy up, putting him down, and cardio. The only one who is undefeated is father time, you know. So eventually there will come a time when that clock ticks for the last time and okay, it's time for me to be done fighting.

I just don't have it anymore. So, the more I can turn back the hands of time by doing explosive, more plyometric movements, the better. And taking care of my body. You know, I it'd be crazy. I've been training now for 12 years, and probably only about the last five or six years have I been doing body work every single every single week. I get a I get body work by a massage therapist, a a a highly knowledgeable uh physio uh body worker who understands the body.

And I lived in back pain for a really long time. And I discovered a a product called the soight. Um realized my soaz my soaz muscle from running, jumping, kicking, doing all these things was hindering me uh physically and also I just woke up in pain every single day. So I had low back pain at all times. So I started lengthening my soaz um and protocol Michael protocol Michael protocol Michael the so right. Okay. Okay. Okay. PSO-Rit PSO-Rit PSO-Rit T. I'll send you a few of them.

Um because I believe um you you've heard David Gogggins talk about it. Um, I actually spoke about it on the Joe Rogan podcast. Um, because everybody, you you speak to anybody, what's the one thing that hurts everybody? Their back always hurts. And I think right now I'm sitting at a at a desk right now in this chair and my soaz is being crunched down and we God didn't design our bodies to sit for the crazy amount of hours that we do. Or if you're in sitting in, you know, beautiful Southern California traffic, you know, you're sitting in your car.

It doesn't matter how nice your car is and how beautiful the leather is on the seats, you're still sitting down in a nonoptimal position. I think when it's affordable, people need to investigate more of this body work stuff. I've neglected that all my life. I've done pretty good with nutrition. I've trained really hard. I've not done enough body work. And I know that that there's a dollar amount, although I have sponsors on my show with little different gadgets and different things that do help you with that.

And I'm not plugging the sponsor. I'm just telling you guys, um the the gun is something that's really made a difference for me. And I'm not plugging the product. I'm just saying that's a form of body work. Uh the other thing I want to just say to everybody too, this is one of my favorite conversations of all time, bro, which I knew it would be. But the fact that you define yourself as an athlete as much as you do a fighter and I just want all the business people or moms or dads out there, what if one of the definitions, one of the terms you gave yourself is you were an athlete.

You can be an athlete at any age. I actually call myself that. Like it's one of the words I use in my affirmations is I'm an athlete. I think about that. I think that way. I think more athletes are attempting to become business people. If you look at the LeBron James and the Michael Chandlers and the Tom Brady's are good examples of they're becoming business people. more business people need to become athletes. That's the future. That's the present of where we are. So, totally agree with you on that.

Okay. Got to ask you about maybe my favorite thing I wanted to talk to you about all the time that we've, you know, known one another. And, uh, by the way, we're going a little longer, brother. Sorry. This is so good. I love it. But the last part I want to ask you about is your faith. Because, um, you're a sinner saved by the grace of God just like I am. I don't want anybody thinking neither one of us are perfect people because we're not. And neither one of us have all the answers.

I know people say all the time, you've just got all the answers yet. I said, "No, I have all the mistakes and I can save you on your life with all the mistakes I've made more than those more than I just some, you know, um, you know, the Yoda of answers." But my faith has been central in my life. It's given me the most comfort. I love that the first thing you say is God still loves me. How important is that to you in your life overall pre pre and post your fight career?

I'm just curious. I mean it's it's the it's the most important part because it's the wellspring by which everything else flows from you know um I I I think the overarching theme of this of this entire talk that we've had been having even though we haven't even said the words the actual word too much but the word is gratitude you know operating in gratitude um realizing the gifts that I've been given realizing that to give anything less than my best every single day is to sacrifice ice the these amazing life that God has given me.

Man, I got every single thing. I don't have a lot. Uh but I'm not missing a dang thing, you know? I'm not missing a thing in in my life that that I need. And all of that is by the grace of God. All of that is when I think about the young Michael Chandler coming from High Ridge, Missouri. God, every single person, every single setback, every single up, every single down, every single door door that stayed closed, every closed, every single door that opened, God had me in the palm of his hand all the way through.

in the entire time. And if you can, and I do do I do this often, too, even just visualizing the hand of God. It it looks just like my hand, right? Because it's we were made in the image of an almighty God. But I see myself, the young Michael Chandler, the middle school Michael Chandler, the high school Michael Chandler, who had all his doubts and insecurities, and then the high school, the college and high school wrestler Michael Chandler, who just wanted to win medals and wanted to put on put on the top of that podium.

And then now the fighter Michael Chandler, the father Michael Chandler, the husband Michael Chandler, all all of these things I can see and I can see him all the way through my entire life knowing that there's so much comfort and there's so much rest in God having me in the palm of his hand. And it's it's it's such a humbling feeling. And I think I think when you really pull yourself back from a 30,000 foot view of man there's been some tough times and man there's been some some tears shed and man there's been a lot of dark you know sleepless nights and there's been been some rough roadblocks but all of those things Romans 8:28 everything worked out for the good of his people you know and it's uh as we said I by no means am any better than you or anybody else listening but we are sinners saved by the grace to God.

And it's it's that humbling feeling of knowing that you don't get what you do deserve and you do get what you don't deserve every single day and every single season. And and now arguably I'm, you know, every single thing I' I've accomplished so many of the things that I wanted to set out to accomplish. And I still have so many things left to accomplish. And all of them are tied to my faith. And a a faith in an almighty God who is merciful enough to see me through the tough times.

and he is gracious enough to to continue to bless me even when I look and say, "Man, why the how the heck did this work out for me?" You know, and uh it's just such a beautiful thing and and I'm just so grateful for the opportunity that I've been given. And I feel like I can take this thing to the top only because I live in a in a constant state of gratitude. And and truthfully, if I can just help other people live with a little bit more gratitude, knowing that their best days and their blessed days are out ahead of them because a guy like me who comes from a small town who I was taught to do small things that somehow I've touched every every corner of the globe somehow because God's given me some amazing gifts that that hopefully a few people can be inspired by my story and all of it ties back to my and all of it ties back to my faith.

faith. faith. I'm so grateful for you, bro. And uh I'm really proud of you. Um, thank you. This has been an absolutely remarkable conversation. I knew that when you and I got together and did this in front of everybody that it would be special. But I mean this, I just want you to know I'm so proud of you. I'm so grateful for you. I'm grateful that I got to share this man with the millions of people that I love so much in my audience. I started out by saying that not only you're a special athlete, but you're a special man.

And everybody saw that on full display today. Your calling is even beyond fighting. It's this. It's this platform that's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and then someday it's going to be all of this based on that platform. But uh you stepped into uh a state today, brother, that was a championship level state and uh so thank you, man. Talk just for a second. I'm just curious cuz I didn't know I'd go there. there. there. Virgil, did he play a role in your life in any other way other than boxing in terms of your confidence or any of that other stuff?

like even your demeanor to some extent some extent some extent and watching him in interviews, he's got sort of a uh I'm sure he burns rages on the inside, but he's got kind of a cool, calm exterior about him that I see in you, too. Go ahead and speak to that. No, I mean, I I have a lot of my father in me and I also have a lot of Verge in me. um it's hard not to have their imprint on me, you know, when I've been around them and spent so much time uh you know, we spent so much time together together together and that again that's probably something throughout the course of my life as a fighter and just as a man that has separated me is like they came you know Virgil and my dad came from the old school like they didn't come in the social media era where you know a lot of athletes today they'll show you the hard work and and you really don't know how much work they're put really putting in behind the scenes Like we really got it the hard way.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one thing that they always like we didn't just go to the gym and work the body. They always were working my mind. Whether I was on my way to a run that morning and didn't really want to be there and was dragging getting ready as a as a 11 12 year old kid or going to a big tournament where I wasn't touted to really do anything. Like the mental reps, him being in my ear after year, day after day telling me, "Listen, son, you're meant to be here." I'll give you an example.

Uh Athens, Greece. Yeah. in 2004 uh had not fought the upper echelon of international competition. I had fought Puerto Rico, Mexico, but never the Cubans, never the Russians. Those were the the countries that dominated that dominated that dominated boxing. boxing. boxing. They were really professional boxers in the amateur race. Profession, they do it full-time. And most of the time, unless they come over to America, they don't turn pro. A smaller guy, I fought at 178 lbs. should have been at the lower weight class of 165 pounds, but I had a cousin that during the Olympic trials was trying to make it.

I said, "Okay, I don't want us to fight. I think I'm gonna grow anyway, so let me go up." Are you kidding me? You took a different weight class. weight class. weight class. I didn't grow like I was like I thought I was. I was. I was. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, I'm weighing in every morning at 170, 171, maybe 72 on a good day. I'm drinking waters and Gatorades and gain power just to just to be respectable when I get on the scales. And the weight master, they would look at me and say, "Oh, you're little.

You're small. You should be lower." And I just kind of point to the sky. I had a burner phone that they gave us. And Verge had a burner phone. And he would just call me and he'd stay in my ear. ear. ear. Look, son, you're here for a reason. God didn't bring you this far for nothing. And those types of words like would would just like just cause me to be emboldened. You know, when when we first got the draw and I found out what bracket I was in, I got the toughest bracket.

bracket. bracket. If Yenni Mackeno, the two-time world champion from Russia, was going to be my second fight if I won my first fight. And everybody's kind of like, you know, everybody on the US team was like, "Oh my god, you know, act like it was a death." Like, man, Drake got a tough draw and this and that and versa. That's the way it's supposed to be. that mentality that he had, that those types of words, that type of faith and belief has been something that has been ingrained in me, instilled in me, drilled in me since I've been a kid.

Wow, that's gold. The the couple gold things. One is just having somebody in your life that you can find and seek out that's feeding you all of these, you know, these beliefs, this confidence you have, finding that mentor in your life. And then also the part that you shared earlier, I just want to make sure we reiterate too about if your dad had it his way in the very beginning, you probably wouldn't have even been boxing. And that's true for me in my career. I think if my family had it their way in the very beginning, I'd have been working at, you know, some employee job and paying my bills.

And so, so many of you out there listen to these voices you have in your family. These people who love you, love you, love you, but they don't necessarily have the vision or the wisdom to know exactly where you're supposed to go in your life. Thank God that you got Virgil and your own beliefs and your Welcome back to the program, everybody. I'm so fired up today. I have a man I've admired from a distance for so many years. He is one of the great leaders in American sports.

He just is. and he does it with a style that is all his own and it's one that I've admired from a distance. Some of our mutual friends have confirmed what a good man he is for me and uh let me tell you 140 and 33 while he's been at Clemson as the head football coach there. But he started to get better and better and better. Last three years only lost three games, undefeated in 2018, two national championships. The list goes on and on. And uh this is from a guy who was a walk-on at Alabama, by the way, which is even more ironic that she went to Alabama, now you coach at Clemson.

But I am honored to have Davos Sweeney on the program today. Coach, thank you for being here. Thank you, Ed. It's good to be with you, man. This is uh what a what a what a great uh great great treat to to be on uh on this podcast or show and and opportunity to to meet you. Yeah, it's my pleasure, coach. So, we're going to go all over the place. We're going to talk leadership, recruiting, culture, all these different things. But as I was reading about you, you know, you walked on in college and then you you end up that you won a national championship as a player, too.

A lot of people don't know that. So, you've done a lot of winning in your life, but you get this job and I heard you say that they rated you a D plus higher because you were like the interim coach, but is this true because I want everyone to get this. A lot of you that are listening this, you're entrepreneurs, you're leaders, maybe you're a little bit young in some cases, too. This man was 38 years old when he takes over this program. Is it true that when they hired you, you went like in literally into a closet, like a physical closet and were talking to yourself?

Is that actually true? true? true? That is true. Uh so, so what happened is I just, you know, came to work on um October 13, 2008. I was an assistant uh in my sixth year here as an assistant. And uh middle of the season, three and three. We were coming off a tough loss and and they decided to make a change at uh at head coach uh the head coach position and you know I I had no really I mean absolutely no idea. We we had a 7 am staff meeting that morning and it was actually my day to to do the devotion kind of rotates around the room and just happened to be my day that day and it was just business as usual was a Monday.

We were going to play Georgia Tech that weekend and had our staff meeting like we always do. went on in our offensive meetings. Uh I was the offensive coach and so we're in our planning and about midm morning uh about 10:30 or so the operations guy walks in and says hey coach Bowen needs to see the whole staff in the staff room. Well that never happens. Uh we had already had staff meeting that morning. So it was really kind of odd. U so we all got in there knew something was going on.

He walks in and and he basically just said you know he was didn't have a lot of words. He just said, you know, how much he appreciated us and wow and hey, this is something that's going to happen. We're going to make it they're going to make a change and uh he said, you know, hey, look, I'm good. He said, I just, you know, worry about all you guys. I'm going to visit with you individually in due time, but right now the AD wants to step in and say a few words.

words. words. So, you're you're sitting there and you know, you got a lot going through your mind. I'm young guy. I got young family, you know, people going on. AD steps in. AD was was not a man of many words either. uh old school guy from Arkansas and he basically just said, "Hey, look, you know, uh this isn't something that I wanted to happen, but he did tell coach Bowen he was going to make a change at the end of the year regardless of what happened." And and coach Bowen, they revisited later on that morning and said, "You know what?

This is going to be a a negative seven weeks. You know, why don't we just make a change here and let's let Dabau be the interim?" And uh coach Bowen, the head coach, he he kind of, you know, said, "Hey, would you consider Dabo being the inter room?" And and AD said, "Absolutely." He said, "Uh, you know," and so anyway, next thing you know, he walks in and he says, "Hey, um, here's what's happening. You know, I know it's a tough business. I expect y'all to just continue to do your job.

We got a bunch of kids that's counting on us." And and uh, and he said, "Uh, Davo, you're now the head coach and I need to see you in my office in five minutes." and and walked out. And so, you know, he walks out. We're in there. It was this weird moment kind of slamming pens and notebooks and and then all of a sudden it got dead quiet and everybody in the room's looking at me. I mean, I'm in sweatpants. I mean, this is Mondays are long days in our world.

And uh and just, you know, I I didn't even really know what to say, but it was just I mean, I was like having an out-of- body experience, you know, but I I just said, "You know what? Hey guys, you know, look, let me go meet with him. We'll we'll get back together in a little bit. I didn't really know what to say. And I went and got went to my office and grabbed a notebook and a pen. Called my wife on the way to his office said, "Hey, you know, we just got let go.

They just fired Tommy." Oh my god. I said, "Oh, it gets worse. I'm the interim." And uh and I said, "I don't know when I'll talk to you, Kath." And so I so I go around, I take a deep breath. I walk in his in in his office. And I really went in with the mindset of this is going to be a miserable we had six games left and an open date. So, seven weeks, this is going to be a miserable seven weeks, you know, and but I'm thinking he's probably going to tell me, "Hey, do a good job.

I'll try to get the next guy to keep you or something, you know, along those lines." But just the opposite happened. There's such great lessons that came out of that that I still tell people to this day when I go speak. So, I walk in this man's office and I sit down and he looks at me and he said, he said, 'Do, let me tell you something. I know you're in a tough spot here. He goes, "But here's what I want you to know." And he kind of told me how it all kind of came about.

He goes, "But here's where we are." He said, "For the next seven weeks, I want you to be the head coach. head coach. head coach. I don't want you to be the interim head coach. For the next seven weeks, I want you to do whatever you think you need to do to fix us." He said, "If you need to fire the whole staff, fire the whole staff." Wow. He said, "What whatever you think you need to do, I for the next seven weeks, you have my full support." That was a mistake on his part.

Okay? But this is what he tells me. And then he goes, he said, "For five and a half years, I've watched you. I've watched how you've led your players, how you've handled yourself in the community. I watched you with your family." He said, "I see these kids in your office. I've seen how you handled discipline and recruiting." And he said, "Dab, I'm gonna be honest with you. I've done this a long time." He said, 'I personally, he said, 'I think you're what we need here at Clemson.

Clemson. Clemson. He goes, he goes, "So, what I want you to know is when this thing's over, you're going to get an interview for the job." job." job." He said, he goes, "Whether you win them all or lose them all," he said, "I'm gonna give you an interview for this job." He goes, "Now, I'm gonna hire the best coach, and I'm gonna go all over. I'm g I'm going I'm gonna hire the best coach." He goes, "But I'll say it again. I think you're what we need at Clemson." He goes, "Well, it sure would help if you could win a few ball games." And then he go and then he kind of sits back.

He says, "You got any questions?" And I and I'm like, I mean, I my mind my whole mind so now my mind is racing. So I I leaned up and I said, "So so you're you know," I said, "Well, I appreciate that." And I said, "You're telling me that that like I can be the head coach and uh for seven weeks?" He said, "I'm telling you, whatever you think we need to do, you need to do to fix us. You got my full support." And I'm like, and I and so so I walked out of this this office and I'm I've had a notepad and my mind is racing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, because I went in there with one mindset and I came out with a different mindset. And the lesson that I got from that was number one, you never know who's watching. So just be great at whatever you do. you know, I mean, whatever it is you're doing, just be great at it. So many people, especially in this business, they're chasing things. They want this title or they're this and that. And and the grass is green where you're watering it, right?

right? right? You know, just just be great where you are. Just be great where your feet are. Bloom where you're planted is what I always say. You don't know who's watching, but I know this. If you're great at what you do, people will notice that. that. that. Amen. Amen. Amen. So, that was a lesson. And I and I but and I learned that as a player. Same thing happened to me as a player. I a sophomore. I'm a walk-on. I come to a Tuesday practice. Boom.

They say, "Hey, we're going to give you a shot." You know, and I didn't even know he was paying attention. Next thing you know, I let her three years or get a scholarship, win a national championship. But but the second part of that lesson is you got to be prepared for your opportunity. You know, you got to be prepared for your opportunity. You may there you may not ever get it, but but right, better be prepared, you know? Anyway, Anyway, Anyway, what did you do, coach, to be prepared?

Like, Like, Like, so tapped you on the shoulder. You're ready. Did you think you were ready? Absolutely. So, so to answer that, so when I walked out of there, I went in a closet. I literally I went in like a did. That's a true story. Half janitor closet, half vent, and I just closed the door and I just sat in there and for 45 minutes, I just started writing. writing. writing. I just started writing and it I was all over the place, you know. I'm thinking recruiting.

I'm thinking discipline. How I want to change practice. What would I want to do this week? How am I going to meet with the team? I got to meet with the staff. Is there anybody I need to make a change with? You know, I'm going to run the offense. I'm gonna call, you know, I had all these things going on and I'm just scribbling a hundred things, you know, for that moment. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. But as I and so so I go through that, but the second part of it is from the time I got into coaching in 1993, I was preparing to be a head coach.

All right. I didn't know if I'd ever get a chance to be a head coach, but I was just I love what I do. I love what I was doing. I love my I mean, I just trying to be the best at whatever it was. But I started kind of building a book, started putting a a head coach book together in 19 I mean, literally right out of the gate, things I liked, things I didn't like. uh you know uh academic stuff uh philosophy of offense, philosophy of defense, philosophy of recruiting, philosophy of special teams, you know who I would want to hire, you know what would be my staff expectations, you know, whatever how I would run practice, you know, and I started putting all this just building this all over the years and all through the years I'd oh man I like that throw it in the book or you know a lot of times so I coached eight years at Alabama when I finished playing I played five, coached eight and a lot of times We learn more from the bad than we do the good, you know, and that's called experience, you know, when we touch that hot stove and we get that big, you know, we learn, right?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh but the wise man learns from other people's experiences. people's experiences. people's experiences. So, so we all learn from our own. That's just life. just life. just life. But man, I just spend a lot of time learning from other people. And and I do that with my players to this to this day. I send them stuff from all over the country all the time, you know, whether it's something good or something bad, you know, to to learn from others. And so I just was started going through things and and I spent the first seven years I spent all seven years of coach Stalin's career at Alabama with him.

And then all of a sudden, I started working for other people, getting exposed to different things, and I started going, "Oh, well, now I know why he did it that way." you know, and and so I started having things reinforced and then I started, you know, growing into my own as far as Yes. my beliefs, my philosophy, and I started putting all this together. And and what happened to me, this was a great great great turning point for me in 200 um I think it was 2006.

They were starting a football program at the University of South Alabama, the Jaguars down in Mobile, and they're they're a good program, but they were starting football there there there and and they reached out to me to come interview for the job, and I'm like, you know what? You know what? And and it was to be quite honest with you and and I only told this to my wife. If I had gotten the job, I wouldn't have taken it. But I told Kath, I said, "You know what?

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to prepare for this job like it's the University of Alabama. Like it's the job." And I And so it forced me to take all those years of stuff and I put it together and I organized and I went after that job like it was the greatest job. I mean, I had Jag Jaguar Nation, we're fixing to rule the world, man. I had everything in there. And so so I had I was prepared and and you know and I finished like second or third on the job.

They didn't offer me the job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh but but I I finished second or third on the job. But I I really wouldn't have taken it if they'd offered it. But it was such a great process. And so all of a sudden, two years later, I'm the interim head coach at Clemson. And so when I'm get an interview, so I'm I'm in the middle of the season. I'm in chaos. I'm making changes. I got all this stuff going on. And but when that season was over, you know what I did?

I walked in, I had the president, I had the the AD, the assistant, and I had them all a book. And I said, "Hey, this is who I am. This is what we're going to be. This is how we're this is what we're going to do. This is what our philosophy is. This is this is how we're going to run the program. This is the staff I want to hire. This is, you know, uh our discipline pos uh policy. This is what I believe in." And, you know, bam, here we go.

That to me is like, coach, I feel like we just did the whole show. Like I hope everybody got this and goes all the way back. All this stuff about blooming where you're planted, the grass is greener where you water it. And I've actually never heard it said that way before, but this idea that he was blooming where he was planted, being the best and great at what he did, but preparing for the future all the time. It's amazing to me even entrepreneurs that even will listen to the show.

They'll write down little keys, but are you watching how the guest says it, how they phrase it, how they position it, how they tell a story, how I do it, where you work right now, if you're if you're, you know, an employee somewhere, are you prepping to be a business owner someday, studying what works? And what you said too about what doesn't work? Are you keeping that binder that coach kept of keeping these notes? And experience allows you to anticipate too. If you don't have experience, I think you're constantly reacting.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think what happened was when you got this job, a lot of guys get that opportunity, they didn't prepare like you. Now they're just reacting. Recruiting this problem, the boosters, we just had this loss. Oh my gosh, our center's hurt and they're reacting all the time. This allowed you, I think, would you agree with me, coach, that preparation allows you to anticipate situations sometimes that you wouldn't get if you weren't prepared. You got a plan. You know the Abraham, one of my favorite quotes from Abraham Lincoln was if you Abraham Lincoln said, you give him six hours to chop down a tree, he's going to spend the first four hours sharpening the axe.

You know, I mean, it's all about preparation. It's just in my world and what we do, we only play about 3% of the time. We prepare 97% of the time. But it's what you're doing when nobody's watching. That's what separates people. You know, you didn't get here I I don't know your whole background, but I guarantee you didn't get here doing this show. You didn't just show up. I mean, it's what you're doing. Championships are won when nobody's watching. They're when the stands are empty. And it's the same thing with people.

Champions are made when what you do when nobody's watching, you know. So, it's that 97% of the time, you know, we all work, we have jobs, but it is all about preparation and having a plan. And so, be having a vision, being able to articulate that vision. You're going to deal with young people today. Number one, they better know that you care. Number number two, you better be able to communicate why. All right? And so, and you've got to be able to articulate a vision and get people to buy in and get behind that.

I don't care if you're running a company or whatever it is. But the other key thing, this is very important because, you know, especially in my world and I deal with a lot of young people and I deal with a lot of young coaches now, you know, and and I've been I've been I' I've been I've been an 18 to 22 year old and I have a PhD in 18 to 22 year olds because I've spent my entire life with that group, right? My whole life, right?

And and I in fact, I was at a convention a couple years ago and I had this young couple young guys I'm I'm going up. We were we were in uh Louisville and I'm going up to going back to my hotel room and I'm standing over by the elevator and these couple of these young guys came up to me and they were like gas at grad assistants somewhere at I don't know if they were at Baylor or where some some school and they came up to me.

Coach Sweeney Coy, you know, just wanted to introduce themselves. Hey, nice to meet you guys. And I'm literally standing there at the elevator and they're like, um, they're like, you know, Coach Sweeney, listen, we just, you know, we just want to, you know, they wanted me to give them like, you know, 30 years of stuff and knowledge in in a in a minute here and they want to go from GA they want to go from GA to head coach. And I and I just and they listen.

I said, "Well, here's here's what I would tell you guys." All right? And it's exactly what I just said. I said, "Be great at whatever you're doing. If you're the GA, be the best GA in the history of GA. If your job is to go get the coffee, man, you bring the best coffee that anybody's ever You get that coffee, man, everybody's going, "Man, did you get that co this guy's unbelievable?" All right, people notice that. I said, "I can't tell you how many people I've hired that they don't have some fancy resume.

What they got is they got an unbelievable work ethic and attention to detail, and they're just so focused being great at what they're doing, they don't get distracted. So, that's number one. Prepare." But you need to hear me on this, guys. I'm about to get on this elevator and I'm going to hit 14 because that I'm on the 14th floor and when the doors open I'm on the 14th floor. Well, let me tell you this. You got to you got to take the steps. All right?

There's no elevator to being a head coach. There's no elevator to being the CEO. There's no elevator to greatness. You got to put the work in and take the steps. Period. And you know what? Enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoy it. It's not about because because I've been to the top. I tell our guys all the time, I've been to the mountain top and it's awesome and we love it. We climb a mountain every year at Clemson. That's kind of our our thing. You know how you climb a mountain?

One step at a time. We love that. And we we start out base camp, you know, and and the top of the mountain is awesome, but that's not what it's all about. That's just a moment. What you what you will cherish more than anything is the journey that it took to get there. Like, man, what what it took to get there, the people you were with, the relationships that you developed along the way, the failures that you had, the mistakes that you made that you learned from, that you grew from.

That's what you cherish more than anything. Everybody looks and they see the the the grand moments, you know, Tom Brady winning a Super Bowl. That's great. You know what Tom Brady's going to remember more than anything, man? those practices, those practices, those practices, you know, getting together with the guys, the bus rides, the plane rides, the the when nobody's watching, the preparation. That's what it takes. I'm getting goosebumps, y'all. Like, you got to fall in love with that. You got to embrace the suck, right? There's a lot of it that just sucks.

And you got to fall in love with that to you got to fall in love with that part if you're gonna if you're gonna, you know, do anything great in life. It's not going to just happen. So, the preparation and falling in love with the preparation. All the great players that I've been around, that's what separates them. them. them. They love the preparation. Everybody loves to play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But it's falling in love and embracing the suck along the way. That's that's what separates us.

Oh my gosh. Very rarely am I in the middle of one of these shows. I'm like, "This is freaking great." You know, we're in the first quarter. Just because it's a and I just want you I just want to keep going. But I was going to say this to you. I just gave a talk this weekend. a bunch of entrepreneurs, very high entrepreneurs. I said, "I'm going to give you my overall business philosophy. It's going to surprise you." I said, "Here's what it is. Everybody you encounter wants to feel this from you that you love them, care about them, believe in them, and you can show them how to get a little bit better." That's it.

And they're saying, "Help me." You said it of young people, but it's true, I think, coach of all people, as you said. And then this notion, I just want to review. I'm not going to review everything he says, but he says so many good things. This idea of the love of the preparation, I promise you that's true across the board with the athletes I've worked with, too. But in addition to that, being able to create a vision that you can articulate that people buy into is like you're listening to this man talk.

There's a rhythm. There's a fl It's so easy to listen to him. He wasn't born with that. That's something that he's worked on over time. Let's talk about that for the career for a second. I'm curious cuz this small town guy, not a big time school. Now you're in camp with the Niners, your rookie year. Okay. Jerry freaking Rice is there. Probably your hero growing up, right? Got to be. I I never, like I said, my grandmother's so strict. I didn't get to do a whole lot.

Didn't watch a lot of TV. The only TV shows that I really got to watch was Wheel of Fortune. I got to watch the Channel 6, watch I got to watch the Channel 6, Channel 12, Channel 12 News, and I got to watch the Cosby Show. Get out. Really? For real. But did you know who Rice was? What do you uh No, not until like my junior year in college. college. college. Oh my gosh, that's bananas. Like, Like, Like, you didn't know who Jerry Rice was till your junior year in college?

Junior year in college. I had no idea because I never followed football like that. Okay. that. Okay. that. Okay. I never really was a football fan. So you go to camp though, I know a little bit about the history. So Jerry Rice is there. Then there's a number one pick in front of you. Stokes out of UCLA. He got drafted uh the year before 95. So they got a number one. They invest a third round pick in you, right? What was that like going Did you have to earn a roster spot?

Like were you the first thing like I got to make the spot or or or Oh yeah. Well, absolutely. I I again not really knowing and being aware of what what the draft consists of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What it encompasses. I mean, I I I thought, okay, you drafted, you're on the team. I mean, I didn't know you had I didn't know Yeah. I didn't know you had to go through uh the process of you got to make the team. So, that's awesome. Uh again, like I said, that was kind of how clueless I was to to really me playing beyond the collegiate level cuz I never thought that I would play beyond the collegiate level.

Uh we mentioned basketball. I played three years of basketball. I mean, the program wanted me not to play my senior year understanding that I had a opportunity to play professionally u football. So, but I I my love was so great for basketball. I was like, "No, I'm not going to forego my senior year of playing basketball to to concentrate on football when that was never really on my radar." That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. But yeah, I I was drafted war number 15 in camp. in camp.

in camp. Um Um Um my coaches, Larry Curtsy at the time, they drafted me on potential based on my physical attributes and what I could probably add to the game. uh they thought that I could learn under Jerry Rice, JJ Stokes, and then I got to be there and and saw guys like Nate Singleton. Uh these are veteran receivers, Chris Thomas and a lot of other free agents that were on the team at the time. So I'm looking around, I'm like, I'm number 15. I don't get an 80 number.

I don't you don't get an 80 number, a legit number, until you make the team. the team. the team. I didn't know that. So 15 was was was my number uh going all the way through preseason. And I as yeah as this preseason unfolded, you started to see the cuts break down as we get closer to the season. Um so I saw guys that I felt in my mind were better than I was really really really they were getting cut. So I I mean it's it's natural natural instinct.

Okay. If you know that you're not not not your skill set is not where theirs are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're like okay well I'm next. You're next. Yeah. That's the same. I was a realist about my abilities when I was in high school and college. I knew that there were guys that were better than me. than me. than me. That's crazy to hear. I knew in in college, I knew that there were guys that were bigger, better, bigger, faster, and stronger than me. Even in college, but that's what prompted me to get the key.

Not only did I work out um in my spare time when I was in high school, those 30, 45 minutes. Yeah. minutes. Yeah. minutes. Yeah. I didn't go home during the summer after my freshman and sophomore year of school. Okay. school. Okay. school. Okay. So, I got the key from the strength and conditioning coach. I did the same thing. Got the key to the weight room. Did the same thing. I would go in. That's how I got stronger because I was in there by myself. So, I had to lift off by myself.

I had to be careful because I was in there by myself. Nobody spotting me. So, that's how I got stronger. stronger. stronger. So, these are some of the things that I did unbeknownst to the world out there. Uh, in terms of how I how I made it. This is so good cuz you outworked everybody. It's also the things you do when no one's watching. Like when you played, one of the things everyone would say, "Ah, his physique, his physique." Now you know where this comes from.

It doesn't happen overnight. That's awesome to hear. I hope everyone's hearing these lessons, business, sports, you name it. And then again, this running theme of you taking advantage of opportunity, right? So during that season, Rice gets hurt. The sec my second second season. Is that when you had your breakthrough was really the second season? season? season? Yeah, kind of sort of. Yeah. I played sparingly, you know, my my my rookie year. I played a lot of special teams. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um you catch a couple passes that year, right?

right? right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think I had my I don't know how many yards I had. No, I think I had like four touchdowns my rookie year. Um but again, I started to kind of just familiarize myself with the playbook, Steve Young. Steve Young. Steve Young. Um just the culture of professional football in itself. And so I go in my second year again going into the offseason, I'm preparing myself. Yeah. Um just to be a vital part, a value uh to the team.

And so we go into the my second season, first game, we go down to Tampa. Uh Jerry Rice, I think he runs a reverser or something and and Warren Saps I think just beat our defensive end, got him from behind and he tears his ACL his ACL his ACL from that point on. I mean, I get thrown into the fire and here we go. And so that's where that preparation, you know, that I and and just me familiarizing everything that I had done my my rookie year leading up to my second year.

I was preparing myself for this moment. I love it. And if I wasn't prepared, then I wouldn't have been able to to to add value to the scene to the to the team. You see, I didn't say success because I hadn't re I hadn't there was no level of success at that point. I was still trying to add value. I was trying to add value to to the Jerry Rices, to the Steve Youngs, to the JJ Stokes, to the organization, to the team itself. So, I hadn't really experienced any success at this point.

I was still trying in that in that mode of proving myself that I could play at the professional level. professional level. professional level. What a great distinction. So, when did the uh by the way, I want tell you one thing just off the whole thing. I turn on a football game, it's the playoffs, it's you guys against Green Bay. The best catch I've seen in the clutch moment in a in my entire life is that catch you made in the endzone. That says a lot. What year was that though?

99. 99. 99. Okay, we're going to feed this in right here. You're going to watch this guy come across to the middle and you get obliterated and hold on to this football, right? Like that. That's the kind of stuff about like you added value, added value, added value, and then it was like, "Oh my god, this guy's special." special." special." It's it's it's literally like where I caught the ball, it's like it's equivalent to going in between two two two cars. Unreal going into to the eye of a of a hurricane or a torn tornado because Steve Young, he put that pass where nobody else could catch it but me.

How much time was left in the game? Uh I think at that time when I caught it, about 8 seconds left, 8 seconds left in the game, right? So I think things like that start happening. So you took advantage of your opportunity. Then there's these special moments and you start going, "Wait a minute, maybe I got something here, right? Maybe I'm special." When did you have the This guy, just so you know, this man had 20 catches in a single football game. So, I'm curious, did you know going into that game like whoever the corner was that I'm going to eat this dude up or or was that just the game kind of fell in your direction?

Well, for everybody that don't know out there, this is Jerry Rice's last home game. game. game. Okay. I didn't know that. So, yeah, this is Jerry Rice's last home game. We playing the Chicago Bears. Okay. Um, we go into this game uh with the game plan and the mindset of we're trying to send this guy off into the sunset, you know what I mean? And we're trying to send him off into something like this, you know what I mean? So, our first 15 plays scripted or 20 plays, they were if it was I think it 15, okay, okay, okay, I guarantee you 13 98% of the pass plays 13 to 14 of the play pass plays or the plays in general, okay, okay, okay, were for Jerry.

Okay, we're trying to send the greatest receiver of all time out the best way possible. possible. possible. Got you. Got you. Got you. But But But not only did we know that, but the world knew that. knew that. knew that. The Chicago Bears knew that. The defense knew that. So, they tried to prevent and they did a great job of taking him out of the game, taking him away, which opened up for you. you. you. What did you just mention? You segue into this by saying me taking advantage of opportunities.

So, that's what I did. So Jeff Garcia, the quarterback at the time, he had to be smart going through his progression progressions knowing that okay, that okay, that okay, I can't imagine what Jeff was like. We trying to get the greatest receiver of all time. We trying to get him off, right? right? right? And he's so he has to be smart about the game plan, not to force anything. So he goes through his progressions and Jerry been the number one receiver and you could have said that me and JJ again, depending on the receiver sets or formations, we're two and three in the progression.

progression. progression. Yeah. So, I was just basically running my routes to win, to be open. Yep. To be that secondary receiver. If Jeff goes through his one option and Jeff Jerry's not there, he goes to two or he goes to three. three. three. I was on the re receiving end of 20 of those passes. those passes. those passes. It's interesting. This is like the most telling part of the interview, just so you know, cuz the perception of you, I think sometimes, is that this is, and it's completely opposite.

I'm going to bring another example up in a minute. I I think like the ultimate team player on the field. I just asked you about a record you had for a long time and you credited Jerry with it. You literally just said that he created opportunities for me, right? Like it really was. really was. really was. That's a team that's what a team person actually most team guys would not even say that. So that's incredible that I asked you about a record you hold. You basically give credit to Rice for moving coverage coverage coverage his way and opening things up for you and and to your quarterback by the way too.

too. too. I'm curious because now you become the Jerry Rice the rest of your career. One of the things that's unique, you guys, when you get a high level of sports is that, you know, you see the records he's got and but you have to understand something. Every football game this man went into for about a decade or more, the defense on that Monday when they got together was how do we stop 81, right? You understand the whole the whole structure of of the defense is how do we take away their best weapon?

This was their best weapon. What's that like? I'm curious like all week you got to be so good. You're going to face their best corner, right? Or or uh they're going to slant coverage your way. You're going to get double cover most of the time. whatever it is. What's it like knowing a whole team is scheming against you? And how did you end up prevailing week after week after week beating coverage like that? What was that? Was it your was it your the ability to run the route?

Was it your film study? All of it? Like what was it? It's uh just my preparation, understanding um what they're going to give me. Um understanding my coaching. Um them uh helping me, they were helping me perfect the craft of becoming a receiver. Um Coming out of Chattanooga, I had no idea uh of really I wasn't faced with the level of competition that I was going to be facing in the pros. So, I had to work on these things, you know, day in and day out after practice.

Uh working with my hands, working with my feet, my physical part, that was a given. I mean, I could run through a guy all day, all day. But I knew in order for me to progress and get to the level of Jerry Rice, then I had to add some tools to my toolbox. I probably I had a tool box, but I probably had maybe two or three tools in there. there. there. Wow. Wow. Wow. You know what I mean? So I I was I was lacking.

lacking. lacking. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So I had to add some tools to my repertoire and to my box um in order to to really perform at the level that I knew that I could once I started to grasp what I could do on the football field. field. field. So the separator was that extra preparation, those extra tools. Again, you have average, you have good, and you have great football players. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and you see that there's only the margin of with good and great is very very slim.

Uh and and what separates those guys when you think about in football you think about the Jerry's, you think about the Tom Bradies, your your Steve Youngs, all you know, Hall of Fame caliber of talent guys. Um in basketball, you think about the Kobes, you think about the Michael George, you think about the LeBron and what they're doing later on in their careers is because they realize that there is something that separates them them them from good to go from good to great. great great great coming out of high school.

I I I wasn't that great coming out of high school. But these guys, when you think about Kobe's, the Kevin Garnett, the LeBron's, they're they're projected uh to to be great. great. great. Yes. Yes. Yes. But it'll be a big disappointment and failure if they don't exceed or live up to those expectations. But you think about what Kobe did. He took the blueprint of what Michael Jordan did. You think about what LeBron has done. Not only you can't just pinpoint and characterize him with one particular player.

He possesses so many abilities from all these great players that have paved the way from him. He realizes that and he took advantage of the opportunities. So he takes the time to play 15 seasons and now you feel like you look at this guy play, he can play 15 more because he's invested in himself. He believes in himself. And that's what I had to do too. I knew that I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't good at that at at one point. I was average. average. average.

I started from average. Wow. Wow. Wow. And I worked my way to good. And then once I saw I'm like, "Okay, I'm a pretty decent athlete. What can I do to take me to the next level?" I utilize the resources around me from my personal trainer to my coaches. I listen when I when I would be on the football field and I would see Steve Young talking to Brent Jones or he would be talking to the quarterback coach Matt Kavanaaugh or when he Bill Walsh may walk on the field or he's talking to Jerry Rice.

These are conversations that they they had. I was an earshot distance. I would be paying attention. So if there was something that he and Steve Steve and Jerry are trying to get on the same page with, I knew that yeah, he's talking to him, but I'm being taught at the same time. Wow. Wow. Wow. So I'm taking all this into into account into consideration because I may be in that situation one day. And ultimately I was because I had some big shoes to fill. I was a I honestly I was afraid to be average.

I was afraid to be good. I wanted to be great. I wanted to be better than good. And so that's what enabled me to do the things that I did on the football field. When I saw smaller guys, you know, squirt through uh defenses, how quick they were, how agile they were, I knew as a big body, in order for me to get to that level, I had to work on these things. Wow, this is awesome. Like maybe my one of some of my favorite three or four minutes in the history of doing this, cuz this is like inside the inside of a Hall of Famer of and anything.

Same is true for any of you guys in business. you get to that level where you're good and you want to get to that level where you're being great, it's fighting for these little extra things, those extra mentors, extra conversations, extra preparation, extra tool in your toolbox to communicate or close or product or whatever the heck it is. Like, it's awesome. Curious, just as a football question, toughest corner you had to go up against in your career. Anias Williams. Anias Williams. Anias Williams. Anas Williams from the Cardinals.

Was he the Cardinals? Yeah. Uh, first he was with the Los uh the St. Louis Rams. Louis Rams. Louis Rams. Yeah. Rams and then Cards, right? Cuz we played I was in the NFC West, so we played them twice a year for my first three or four years. And so he was a big corner. Okay. Okay. Okay. I was a big receiver. Um so again, I'm sure he did film study just like I had to do film study. And guys that did film study to to try to minimize you.

Like you said, they game plan. How do you stop this guy? Yes. You know, I was just a young buck 81. How do you stop? How do you stop this young Yeah. How do you stop this young kid? So, him being a veteran, I'm sure he studied film on what I did good, what I did decent, um what I did poorly, and he probably tried to minimize those things, eliminate those things, what I did great, um good at that time. And so, it was it was tough getting off bump and run because going to a small school.

Yes. I wasn't I wasn't faced with a lot of that. of that. of that. Okay. So, Okay. So, Okay. So, so everybody probably want to get physical with you at the line of scrim, but very few guys had the capacity to do it because you were so strong, right? And Williams could, right? And the thing is, especially for him, he was just my size, so he could there was some room for error for him to to make up. But if it's a smaller guy, if they mess around and they slip, I use my physicality or my quickness to get by.

They know it's a wrap. So, they didn't they they didn't come up and and press me as much, but he was the guy that that forced me. I'm like, man, I got to get better cuz I I can't only just I can't only just get by with getting uh having some success against these other corners. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There going to be other big corners in the league. They're going to look at him like, "Okay, he stopped Tio. So, let me see how he did it." Wow.

Wow. Wow. So, I had to prepare myself for any and every situation. every situation. every situation. I love hearing this. The other thing about you as a player, then we'll move off this, but I want to say one thing is I think people underestimate how tough you were. First off, the best of ability is availability. You were available all the time. You just you were durable like LeBron. It's one of the great things about LeBron James. Nutrition nutrition and Brady Brady had the one year with his knee, but this dude plays football, right?

Like he's available. It's how do you rack up these numbers, right? And help your football team bring value. You were tough though. And so I'm a Patriot fan. Patriot fan. Patriot fan. So I just want to talk about this one situation. You know what I'm going to say, right? But Super Bowl 39. So this this man gets to the Super Bowl and the truth is a few weeks prior to that, he basically breaks his leg and has a screw in your leg. Is that not an I had two screws in my ankle.

I tore a lot of the ligaments in my ankle. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um Um Um upon the diagnosis once I got my ear MRI uh the following day. Y um a lot of ligaments torn. I didn't know my leg was broken till I got an X-ray cuz they MRI my whole leg because I went to sleep that night and my leg was really it was aching so bad. Not my ankle. Like I iced it but I was throbbing throughout the course of the night up by my knee.

Okay. And And And so I told the radiologist I'm like, "Yo, it's like my my leg was aching throughout the course of the night." He's like, "All right, cool. We'll just we'll just x-ray the whole leg or whatever and see what's going on." This is one of the most underreported stories. Seriously, I think in the history of the NFL, right? This man played in the Super Bowl. No one thought he was going to play. They weren't sure to game plan for it, but no one thought he play.

This man played with a recently broken leg in the Super Bowl. This is something that no one talks about. There was even a slight limp when you would watch him warm up. And then he flat early in the game. I'm watching the game. I go, "Oh god, Owens is going to kill us." The only reason, I'm not being negative about anybody. I want you to talk about playing with that injury, playing through some pain because you had to be in some pain or some discomfort or you weren't at your best, but I'll be honest with you, I watched that Super Bowl.

If they'd have continued to get you that football in that game, there would have been a different result in that football game. I remember that last couple drives you had were taking forever. I'm like, thank God it's taking forever. They're not getting the ball to to literally, if they just kept feeding you the football, they could not cover you. You were like a man on a mission in that football. I'm not saying that cuz you're sitting here either. It's a standout moment for me in sports.

I coach a lot of athletes. I know that you weren't at your best and you you came into the again the greatest opportunity of your career was this Super Bowl to shine and you shine. And if had they won the football game, it would have been a legendary story people would tell forever because you played so hurt. So, welcome back everybody. My guest today played 12 years in the major leagues and let me just tell you something. He could flat mash. This dude could hit. I used to watch him going, "That's the natural.

they should call him the natural. But then the more I got to know his story, turns out it wasn't natural that he worked really hard to build this incredible swing. Three-time all-star. And I'm just telling you guys, any of you that know baseball, this dude could flat out hit. But today we're going to talk about, you know, you got someone here that played in the big leagues and the major leagues that long. There's a mental aspect to what they did and how they live and what they do now that got them there.

So, we're going to talk about peak performance today and overcoming adversity. all kinds of incredible stuff with Sean Casey. Casey, welcome to the show, brother. Hey, thanks for having me on, dude. So fired up to be here, brother. You came all the way in. You flew flew from Pennsylvania to be here today. So, thank you for being here. I know you got a lot of family stuff going right now, dude. I just wanted to say, too, like before we get going, like listening to your podcast, D like who's the guy who's the voice of like, welcome to Ed.

Who is that guy? The guy that does he introduces your show. He used to do it's incredible. Yeah, he used to do something for the NFL and I heard his voice. This is way back in the day. So funny. Seven years ago, I'm like, I told my team, I go, I don't know who that dude is. I want that voice saying my name. And what's funny about that thing is too is that even to this day, he still can't say mylet correctly. It's welcome to the Ed Milelet show.

He still doesn't even say my name right, but his voice is so good. I'm like, okay, he can just say my He says my name wrong on my own show, own show, own show, but he says it with such a great voice. I'm like, let's just leave it. Every time he does the takes, I'm like, can you get him to say Milelet? Like, no, it's Milelet. Whatever. Anyway, Anyway, Anyway, so I want to go back to the kind of the beginning with you. So, Michael Jordan's got this amazing story that everyone throws around that, you know, he ends up being the greatest of all time, but he didn't even, you know, make his varsity team his sophomore year.

There's this great story and it's a great story, but the guy went to North Carolina, had a bunch of scholarship offers. You on the other hand, when I say this guy could hit, I mean, I I other big league baseball players envied your swing and just were, you know, you're just a remarkable hitter and player. But in high school, we go back like, you didn't really have any juice. No one wanted you out of high school. You couldn't even get a scholarship. You couldn't even get someone to look at you.

I want you all to think about this that are listening, wherever you are in your life right now, you're like, "No one knows me. Nothing's happening." This dude couldn't even get someone to come scout him. Never mind him offer you money. No one even come look. Right. Is that true? that true? that true? No. I mean, you know, it's funny. We were talking about, you know, you're out in Cal California. You've got you got, hey, we had nine dudes from our high school get drafted. Like, what?

I could I haven't seen nine I haven't seen nine scouts in my life in Pittsburgh. You know what I mean? It was incredible. So, you know, it's it's a great story and I you know, as I look back and I I think we were we were talking earlier like my dad's in a place right now where he's has gone through two open heart surgeries and and all this stuff. So it, you know, even more like he and I have connected and and we we've kind of gone back down memory lane and you know, it's funny when I look back at when I look back at, you know, growing up in Pittsburgh like, you know, I was one of the better players probably 10, 11, 12, you know how that goes.

Then you go to the bigger fields, 13, 14, and so I remember being 14 years old and um and and I I wasn't I didn't play at all freshman year and I'm like, man, why am I not playing at all? Wait, you didn't play? Like I played a little bit. I was like, hey, you have Casey, get in there and pinch hit. And I'm like, what? You know, so yeah. So, didn't really play much. Played a little bit here and there. And I remember like a few games into the year going to my dad and being like, "Hey, dad, "Hey, dad, "Hey, dad, help me out here." You know what I mean?

Like, you know how good I am. You saw me hitting bombs when I was 12, just crushing balls like 220 in a gap, you know what I mean? Like dominating, you know, know, know, and [clears throat] and I'm like, you know, and I, you know, that I should be starting as a freshman, you know, freshman baseball. And he's like, like, like, and I was like, do you think you'd go talk to the coach? I would know. That'd be that'd be just help me out. You know what I mean?

you know, get your dad to kind of snowplow in there. And hey, a lot of guys do do that. That's what I mean. Exactly. You know, and I I think back now as a dad, and I know you do too, Ed, is the conversations you have with your kid, like, man, am I enabling my kids? You know, I feel like you disable people when you enable them. You know, am I enabling my kids sometimes? Am I making it too easy? And and do I say no enough to maybe sometimes for for a lesson, right?

And like, so when I look back at this conversation, had my dad gone and talked to the coach, we're not even talking. Yeah. Isn't that incredible? We're not even talking. even talking. even talking. So he says no. So my dad says no. He's like, "You know what, Sean? I'm not going to talk to the coach." coach." coach." He goes, he goes, "But he goes, one thing I will say is the kid that's playing ahead of you, I don't think he's better than you, but you're not glaringly better than him.

You're not glaringly better than him." He goes, "If you want to start playing, then you got to start taking accountability for who you are as a player and for you who you are as, you know, putting in the work." He goes, "There's a batting cage that just opened up in the in the town next to us." He goes, "I'll make you a deal." He goes, "I'll buy you as many tokens as you want you want you want as long as you hit every day. As soon as you stop hitting, the deal's off." off." off." I love you, Dad.

Yeah. It was incredible. And I said, "You know what? You got a deal, Dad." He goes, "You got to start being accountable for who you are and putting in the work." And Ed, dude, I I I started falling in love. I I went I went to the cages. I went to this batting cage. It was Grand Slam USA. And you know, Yeah. Yeah. Remember Grand Slam when they first came out? And I look back like things you're grateful for. I literally in my gratitude journal recently was like I'm so grateful that that guy Dick Thomas decided to put a Grand Slam USA in the town next to me in Pittsburgh.

Wow. Wow. Wow. You know, it's incredible when you think back at your life. You know what I mean? So So So I end up meeting a guy on Tuesday night named Frank Porco. Never played never played um never ever played college baseball, but he was a hitting instructor. hitting instructor. hitting instructor. I wanted to ask you that. So this guy that helped you didn't even play college baseball. baseball. baseball. Didn't play college baseball. Just a high school and he was making some money on the side.

But Ed, Talk about divine intervention. Yeah. This guy knew hitting. And all the years I played in the big leagues and all the all the, you know, hitting coaches I've been around, I still feel like Frank Porco in Bethl Park, you know, Pennsylvania was the best coach. coach. coach. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, I would go to him every Tuesday night. night. night. My dad didn't make a lot of money. He was a chemical salesman making like 33 grand a year, you know. So, I knew those tokens were a big deal.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't take that for granted. I knew those tokens. I knew the deal was a big deal. Right. So, um, I would go every Tuesday night, hit with Frank Porer for 30 minutes, 5:30, 6:00, 20 bucks. You know, it's a lot more now. It's not 20 bucks, but 20 bucks. And then I would just stay, man. And I became obsessed with the the mechanics of a swing. All because I wanted to play JV baseball. All because I wanted to start my sophomore year really, right?

And it's just when I look back and like, you know, how you talk about just like the compound pounding, the marginal gains, like I could see myself getting like a little bit better every time. I'm like, "Oh man, my front shoulder's staying a little better. I'm really driving off my backside." So, next year it comes along and my dad was right. He's like, "Man, this is going to work." So, sophomore year I start JV, right? And I'm like, "Wow, this is working. My dad's right." Like, it's that, you know, and and he was always telling me, "You want to?" And I was like, "Well, college baseball one day." And I was like, "All right, preparation, meeting, opportunity." Like, be ashamed one day, Sean, if you came if if the opportunity came along and you weren't prepared.

I'm like, and I kind of took that stuff to heart. It was just such great lessons. So my sophomore year hitting every day still. I I I didn't play any other sports. I did play some football and basketball, but by my sophomore year I was just playing baseball, but I hit every day. Hit every day after school. Next thing you know, I'm junior year I'm starting varsity. And then senior year I'm starting varsity. Now I'm a good hitter though. Ed break. Ed break. Ed break. This works.

This works. This works. This uh doing stuff every day like you know that invisible those invisible games. He really do work. And I was driving balls all over the park. So, we get to my senior year, man, and and you know, uh kind of another just a great lesson from my dad. Um he had just started a new company called Casey Chemical. I've been waiting to do it. He's 50 years old now. He's like, "You know what? I'm going to start it." It was a you know, it was he was like a middleman for like, you know, for selling surfactant chemicals, right?

Okay. Okay. Okay. And and so I could I saw how how much he grinded. I saw like the work ethic that he put in and I could see now what he was talking about four three years earlier. So, and we every every month I'd come home from school and and uh he would be, "Hey, time to send out the uh network marketing." He's like, "We got 5,000 letters, Shnie. Get those get that those lips ready cuz you're going to be licking those envelopes." And sending them off.

And we would send them out. He would say, "Hey, listen. If we get three or four people to to to come back, we got a sale. We're going to pay the bills." And that's that was like the kind of the thought process, right? So, during my senior year, I had no college scholarship offers. Not division one, division two, division three, right? just like they weren't there. And you know, you know, remember back in high school you'd go to those triyouts where like you know the big league teams would come and then you'd run the 60 and that's why you got you're getting drafted.

He was like this my leg could fly. You know what I mean? They're like this Casey like does he have a does he have a a disease we don't know about? Guy looks like he's ice skating a quicksand you know what I mean? They're like so so I run the 674 75. I'd come I'd come back at you after the trout. Oh yeah. When are we going to hit? And they're like, "All right, these guys are coming back for day two." They'd go down the list.

They'd be like, and I'm like, "Uh, Casey, uh, I think you left off Sean Casey." Like, "No, you're not on the list." 7:45. We'll see you next time. Go to the, uh, Royals try out next week. I'm like, so dude, it was like so frustrating cuz I'm like, is this a track try out or are we going to hit? We're not going to hit, I guess. Right. So, so, so my dad at that point, I was getting not many looks and my dad said, "You know what, Sean?" I sat down with him.

I said, "Dad, I really want to play college baseball, but no one's coming." And he goes, "No one is going to come." He goes, "No one's coming, Sean." He says, "You want to make you you want to go play college baseball? You got to start playing offense, not defense, and quit waiting for somebody to come." He's like, "How about tomorrow? You come home from school, you come out to my office, Casey Chemical. You sit down with me. We're going to write 30 letters. You're going to write the 30 schools that you want to go to.

Division two, division three, wherever you want. So I come home from school that day. I'm kind of fired up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a guy got a game plan. I sit down with my dad. He goes, "Here we go." So bam, I write the first one to Penn State, next one to Clemson. Then I'm writing a College of Worster. Mary, I'm writing whoever whoever will listen. Y Y Y I just open my mind. I'm like, I'm going to play in the Billies one day, but I got to get to a college face.

Why do your face change when you started to talk about your dad writing the letter? I'm just curious like your face changed a little bit. Yeah, it you know what? Because it fires me up. I'm so grateful. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I'm so grateful. you know, with just you, you know, I'm 48 now. So, [clears throat] you're grateful for those you're grateful when you look back when you're 18 years old, 17 17 years old and and uh you know, you got a dad that's that's willing to stand next to you when you're when you're grinding.

You know what I mean? When it's, you know, when it's know, when it's, you know, when it's not, not, not, you know, when everyone tells you you're too slow, you're this and that, you know, you got the guy next to you say, "You can do it." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why not you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, You know, You know, I told you the truth, too, right? Like, hey, no one's coming. Hey, bro. No one's coming. And you know what? And I think that's the reality of it.

That was the reality of it. Like, and then I get, you know, I was like when, you know, fight with reality, you only lose 100%. I'm like, they're not. they're not. they're not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, "So, we sit down and write these 30." these 30." these 30." Amazing. I just got to tell you, like, you're getting me. Like, I don't know why my eyes are watering, but like I know that that was a like you're not here if you don't write those letters. You're not I know they're going to hear it in a minute, but like you're not here if your dad doesn't stand by you.

You're not here if you don't play offense. He doesn't tell you. No one's coming, Shnie. No one's coming. coming. No one's coming. It's just it's just amazing how moments in life can define us. Right. us. Right. us. Right. That's what I mean. Like even with my kids, I'm like, God, I hope I'm saying the right stuff. Don't you feel that way? Like, I hope I'm giving the right lessons. I hope I'm not just snowplowing, you know, the road for them and making sure everything's smooth. You know what I mean?

Cuz the less the adversity that I had was the what? That's where I got my advantages. Right. So, So, So, so you write the letters. So, I write the letters to write 30 letters. Right before I'm done, I get up to go. He goes, "Hey, hey, sit back down." He goes, "Got one more letter." He goes, "University Richmond sent you a flyer." I'm like, You know, now it's like social media. These kids are like, "Hey, look at my swing. Check me out. Look, I got millions of followers." They're like, "Hey, University of Richmond sent you a flyer last year from the Keystone State.

Why don't you send them one, too?" So, bam. Last letter. University of Richmond. Dear University of Richmond, thanks for the flyer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really think I can play there, you know what I mean? Boom. Boom. Boom. So, bam. Season goes on, dude. And I'm still hitting every day after school and I'm having a great year. We end up winning the championship that year at at my up my school, Upper St. Clair. But with four games to go, brother, and it's incredible how this how this works.

First the baton, we're playing this team called Montour. I get a pitch middle away. Bam. Rocket left center, you know. I'm like, let's go. Couple ribbies, you know. Next next pitch, you know, get pitch middle and bam, right center, you know. So, I'm four for four, eight RBI's, you know, and and and four doubles. And, you know, bro, like you you probably look back at your high school career, college career, and you know the games. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a handful of them where you're like, dude, that was that was incredible.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was my greatest high school game ever. Hands down. No doubt about it. 100%. But so Jerry Malarkey, who's the who's the coach at Upper Sinclair, I'm running out to play first for the seventh inning. We're dominating this team. He's like, "Hey, Case." He's like, "Man, you've had a heck of a game." He goes, "How many hits you got?" I go, "Four hits, man." He goes, "How many ribbies?" I got eight ribbies, Jerry. He goes, "Yeah, you know what? That's great." great." great." He goes, "See the guy behind the back stop right there?

That's Mark McQueen. Just drove six hours from the University of Richmond. of Richmond. of Richmond. to come see you play. And I was like, "Are you serious?" He's like, "Yeah." He wants to talk to you after the game. Oh my gosh. So after the game, I went over preparation opportunity, right? Preparation meeting opportunity. And I remember thinking to my dad like, "Dad, what's this preparation meeting opportunity stuff? opportunity stuff? opportunity stuff? Are you BSing here? Because I don't see any opportunities, right?" But he's like, "What?" And he always he was always adamant once, "One's going to come.

come. come. One's going to show up." You know, and I went over to Mark Payne, shook his hand, he said, "Hey, man." He's like, "Really like your swing." Uh, you know, he goes, "I let me get back to you tomorrow." So he went back to Coach Atkins back in Richmond, called me, offered me a $1,000 scholarship. And I think at the time Richmond was like 30 grand. My dad made 33 grand. I was like, "Dad, what [clears throat] are we going to do?" He's like, "We'll figure it out.

We'll take a second mortgage on the house. We'll get some financial aid." So I went to University of Richmond, brother, on the only offer that I had from those letters that I sent out playing offense and not defense, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Incredible. I [clears throat] go to University of Richmond. Are you Wait, are you all hearing this? Just so you know, the end of the story is this man plays 12 years in the major leagues. Is one of the greatest hitters over a decade in the major leagues.

Multiple all-star teams. THIS DUDE GOT NO LOOKS. NO LOOK. You if you feel like you're missing your like, are you hearing this? He gets a $1,000 and all due respect to University of Richmond. All due respect, but this is NOT LIKE ARIZONA STATE EITHER, RIGHT? IT'S A MID- MAJOR. YEAH, EXACTLY. LIKE BIG TIME. IT'S INCREDIBLE. GO AHEAD. INCREDIBLE. So I go to University of Richmond, [clears throat] hadn't even seen the school. Show up first day, my buddy Jay Adams. Hey, hey, nice campus. You know, you're taking 45 visits.

They're like, "Hey, Ed Mlet, let's get him. This guy's going to be leading off for us in three years. We got boom, boom, boom, Pack 10, SEC." I'm like, "Hey, great campus." Yeah. And I'm interviewing you now, just so you know. And you're the one who played 12 years in the big league, so works out. Okay. How life works out. You're on my show talking about your big league career. Isn't that It's incredible how life works out. So true. So I go to University of Richmond, bro.

I end up starting my freshman year. I have a good good freshman year, freshman all-American, like, you know, I mean, in that, you know, but I'm still developing as a player. My sophomore year, I do well and I go to the Cape Cod League League League and you obviously know that's your ticket if you can get to the Cape, you know, in that year Todd Hilton was there, Darren Urstat was there, Mike Lson, good players, right? Have a really good summer, hit like 340 with the wood bat, you know, almost, you know, league league in RBI's.

And the only reason I say that is because it's the part of the story. I go back my junior year and I be and I and I and I hit 461 and I led NC division one NCA baseball baseball baseball in batting 461. Incredible. So I think back to three years earlier or six years, seven years earlier, I'm asking my dad to go talk to the freshman high school coach because I'm not playing. And he just gives me the lesson of you got to work harder.

You got to put the time in. You got to start being accountable for what you do. Set new routines. What are your habits after school? All that stuff. And then and then for me then all started to develop like I look back and like seven years later. later. later. Gosh, Gosh, Gosh, with the with with like you talk about the the compound pounding that piñata effect of the invisible gains, all that stuff. Seven years later in the NCA Division one champion. That is freaking incredible. And I get become a second round pick of the Cleveland Indians.

Going back to earlier in your life um your athletic career. So we have that in common right at college sports and your athletic career. I can tell looking at you just jacked and in still amazing shape. But your career was cut short by an injury. an injury. an injury. Um can you share more about what athletics meant to you and then how you felt when it got cut short based on getting hurt? getting hurt? getting hurt? Yeah, athletics for me was the only place man where I felt um any confidence.

when you're raised with anxiety or you know dysfunction in your family. Dysfunction could be they didn't love you and didn't tell you they loved you enough. They didn't give you enough water. You know that fighting, divorce, bankruptcy. You know, one version of child neglect is a parent not chasing their dream. It's a form of neglect. It's an insidious one that most people don't appreciate. But a parent not living their full potential installs that software on that child. That's a form of neglect if you're a parent.

And so when my career ended, it probably ended something that would have ended anyway. You know, quite frankly, it's a hidden blessing. But at the time, it was devastating because it was my only dream. And it ended and I was really lost for quite a long time. Sort of flailing away trying to find who I was because the mistake I made, and this is true for a lot of executives listening to this too, I had linked my identity to what I did. My identity was what I did or what I accomplished or what I had.

It's a very dangerous way to live because that stuff changes and sometimes it goes away. And now I learned my identity is who I am as a man. The decisions I make, the way I live my life, the way I treat other people. And I'll never again allow I'm, you know, become pretty wealthy guy and got jets and houses and islands and all this stuff. But I'll never allow myity to be tied to things I do because that's fleeting. And I know many, many people have climbed the corporate ladder.

they finally get that position, they finally get that influence, they're like, "Wow, I thought I'd feel differently. I thought it was be more. I thought it would be better." And that's because their identity is tied to what they do. And that's a shallow way to live your life. And that's something I had to learn in that moment when my identity disappeared, which was baseball. Now, if you fast forward and see that you've gained immense wealth, like you said, the planes, the cars, the houses, the islands, you got the Richard Branson type stuff going on.

But even I noticed like I think as you know this as a podcast host you learn a lot in the first few seconds when you meet somebody prior to pressing record and sometimes people flip a switch and kind of go into character once that you hit record. You have been the same guy from the second we started. And one thing I noticed too is an immense amount of humility, which I'm not going to lie, like I I was pleasantly surprised, Ed, because you could have easily not have that based on all of the the other stuff that you've accomplished.

How do you how do you think about that? I'm curious of of humility in the role of not just like fake humility, which we all have seen some. I'm talking genuine real, hey man, it's good to get to get to know you. I've listened to your show. like you can tell like this is real. And that to me is like a really a a key cog when I think about your future. It's like how does it not continue to go like this when you have this humility about you?

you? you? Thank you. By the way, great question. Uh it's one of the most important things in my life with people I want around me is humility. is humility. is humility. Um well, one, I'm a faith-based person, so I'm not I don't think that everything that's happened in my life is just me. That does not mean I haven't busted my tail, but I know there's an element of blessing. Quite frankly, there's been a little luck, too, right? I've made my own luck, but there's a little bit of luck.

Uh, the second thing is I know how, you know, fragile it is. It could go away. And so, I don't really catch catch up too much in that stuff. Um, but the big thing is this. The people that I like the most, like I try to surround myself with, also have a ton of self-confidence. By the way, I think there's a nuance. I want people that nuance this line. And it's not an easy way to to live. I mean, it's difficult to find this balance. Tremendous self-confidence with humility because we all know really self-confident people that don't have any humility.

What happens? They have they're not curious. They don't grow. They usually finally flame out and make mistakes because they believe their own press clippings. Right? Then we also have friends that are really, really humble with no self-confidence. And you're dragging their butt through life all the time. Right? Come on, man. We can do this. You're not the it's not you're not a victim. So, I try to have a lot of self-confidence with a degree of humility. And most of the people I surround myself with have that as well.

I like curious people. I want to grow. What a ridiculous way to live to not be curious, to not want to learn. Like I people go, "Why do you even do your show? It's not a financial win for me, right? I love people. I love learning from people. I love I'm watching you. Your level of preparation." I'm like, "All right, I got to up my game a little bit. How does he know about these index cards with my dad? Like that's not a very public thing.

So I'm always trying to grow. I get in an Uber. You can ask my wife. People like, "Do you always have limo drivers?" No, I take a lot of Ubers. Why? I want to meet real people, man. And automatically, everyone will tell you if I have a server in a restaurant. Tell me your story. What's your story? I had a guy drive me yesterday really quick. Guy's from Lebanon, right? Driving. He's got a kid at Harvard, a kid at Yale, and a kid at Stanford. He's driving an Uber to put him through school.

And I'm like, "Tell me about your family. How'd they get there?" "Well, education's important." "Tell me about Lebanon." I didn't want to get out of the car. It was like a 20-minute ride. I'm like, "Can we I'm like extending the drive." You know, I wanted to learn more about this man. What a fascinating man. You get to know who you ask guys probably make him three two kids in an Ivy League and another one at Stanford. What a remarkable man. And I'm like, "Tell me about your wife.

He must have an amazing wife to have these three kids." And he's lightening up about his wife. We met when we were 14. I said, "Oh man, I met my wife in kindergarten. We started dating when I was 14. That's the juice of life is to have humility. It's where you learn and and you reach people.