How To Achieve Inner Peace. No, Really. | Yung Pueblo

Hello, everybody, welcome to the 10 Percent Happier podcast. I'm your host, Dan Harris. Inner peace is one of the great contemplative cliches. It's on the Mount Rushmore of spiritual cliches. But if you can look past all the violence that has been done to the concept through rote repetition, often in very cheesy ways, I mean, who would not want inner peace? Some sort of reduction in the mental churn that dominates so much of so many of our lives. But then the question becomes, how do you actually get inner peace? And that is what we're going to talk about today with my guest, Diego Perez, who is a bestselling author who is widely known by his pen name, Young Pueblo. Diego has sold nearly two million books worldwide. But he is not only a writer in the years during which he has been appearing on this show, he's become an increasingly deep student of the Dharma. He does many, many long meditation retreats. He's got a new book out called Journey, The Year That Changes Everything. And in it, Diego includes a list called the 11 Rules of Inner Peace. So we're going to talk about this list on the show today. Diego Perez, welcome back to the show. Hey, Dan, thank you so much for having me again. And I like that we're going to go through the 11 rules of inner peace. And I remember a few years ago when we first talked, like any good Buddhist, you have to use your lists wisely. The Buddha, as many people listening know, was a compulsive list maker. As you've gone deeper and deeper into the Dharma, aka the teachings of the Buddha, you've become quite a list maker yourself. There are lists all throughout this new book, Journey. Yeah, that's right. There's a few lists, poetry, short prose, a few sort of paragraphs, a reflective material, all to help people on this, you know, not easy journey of building self-awareness and inner peace. And that's something I want to, you know, just be honest about. Like a lot of people want to find the easiest route possible to inner peace. But like all of the best, beautiful things in life, they don't come easy. They take work. What do you mean? And I'm specifically asking, like, what do you, Diego, mean when you use the words inner peace? You know, I think about it as the ability to have a strong degree of self-awareness when you can see when the mind is creating tension and letting yourself have the spaciousness that you need to not immediately react to the negative things that are happening. So you're approaching reality with a sense of wisdom that everything is impermanent. So you're allowing yourself to enjoy the beautiful moments and in the difficult moments that are bound to happen in life, you understand that, yes, this is tough right now, but I don't need to make it worse for myself. And when I think of inner peace, it's not blissfulness. Inner peace is more you leaning on the truth of wisdom that is impermanence. Everything is always changing. So that means there's going to be a lot of uncontrollable aspects of life. You don't see inner peace as some sort of bulletproof bliss bubble. Instead, it's a kind of inner agility powered by wisdom. Wisdom meaning in this case, just seeing the nature of reality, which is that everything's changing all the time. And then we have this ability to respond wisely to things as they happen to us in our lives. Exactly. And that orientation of inner peace is not something that's external. It's not like me trying to rearrange the different pieces of my life, putting them into the right situation so that finally it will unlock inner peace. Instead, it's the reality that inner peace is driven by your inner mindset. Like, what is your perception? What is your reaction in this moment? And are you coming from a place of attachment, a place of ego, or are you trying to arrive with a wise compassion? So is it your view that it's not so much what happens to us? It's how we are responding in our minds to what's happening to us that determines our level of inner peace, aka happiness? Yeah, I think ultimately your perception and your reaction, they're happening in your mind. But granted, there are going to be people who are going to say things to you that might trigger you in certain ways or do something to you that can be harmful. But then you have to ask yourself what happens after, right? Am I going to keep rolling in this negativity? Am I going to drag it on? Am I going to keep sort of weighing my mind down and creating these patterns that are so reactive that they're just increasing the heaviness of my mind? So taking ownership of, OK, yes, someone did something harmful. They should apologize. They should correct their behavior, whatever it is. But what comes after that and what comes after that is you taking ownership over what's happening in your mind. I am, as I've made repeated references to, very impressed by the depth and diligence of your practice. You've done many, many long meditation retreats at the beginning of this year. You did a 60 day meditation retreat. Yeah. I'm curious, as you go deeper into this practice and also spend a lot of time writing and teaching, which can deepen your practice, where is your inner peace quotient right now? I mean, are you perpetually at peace or do you get knocked off balance? Oh, perpetually off in peace, I would say no, but I am very aware, like I make no claim to perfection and I make no claim to enlightenment even. I think I'm a very diligent student and I've seen how much the practice is changing my mental space. At the end of this 60 day retreat, I remember my wife and I, she also sat to retreat and, you know, after a few weeks, after it was over, I was like, wow, I feel like I'm in a whole new mental space. Like, I feel like my mind is just so different from how it was before. And what I saw more was that I can very clearly feel the tension arising. I can very clearly feel when my mind is trying to grasp at something in a way that is unrealistic and different from the reality of the moment. And what I do have now is this ability to just slow down. I think that's one of like my personal superpower is meditating is helping me slow down so that I don't immediately get sucked into a reaction and instead I see the choices that are in front of me. And that doesn't equate to like, oh, my mind is always calm. But what I can do is in the moments of grasping, I can really just give it the space that it needs to to relax and let that tension evaporate. And I think that's been a really useful skill, much better than being impulsive. As my Jewish relatives would say, mazel tov, because that sounds great. That's Hebrew for congratulations. And I mean that sincerely. And just to say it back to you at the level of like a more novice practitioner, as I understand what's happening to you is it's available for people who are practicing, you know, intermittently or for just a few minutes a day. And it's simply the ability to know what's happening in your mind. So somebody somebody says something that you scan as obnoxious and the you know, all of your conditioning kicks in irritation and maybe inferiority complex, whatever it is, kicks in that machinery starts to move. But you have enough self-awareness, a.k.a. mindfulness, to not get so caught by it, to let it arise and pass and then to respond wisely instead of just reacting blindly. Is that a rough approximation of what you're describing? Yeah, yeah, that that's pretty accurate. So I go through the same spectrum of emotions like everybody else. And when I find myself agitated or, you know, irritated in different ways, like I think one thing I've noticed that has been a big change since the 60 days, like my wife and I this year, we've been very quick to catch ourselves. And it's like the moment that I say something and it has that energy of irritation, it's like, oh, wait, I was like, whoa, my bad. Like, you know, the apologies come a lot faster between the two of us now because we're both like, whoa, that came out a little heated and didn't actually mean that or that's actually more connected to this, you know, whatever agitation that's arising inside. And it's I think it's really important to know that it's not about suppression. It's about just letting yourself observe what's actually happening. And when you're observing it without trying to grab onto or feel whatever is happening, it makes it a lot easier for that thing to not only not take control of your actions, but at the same time, you can just give it the space it needs to let it dissolve itself. And I think that's been quite a useful skill. And again, this is a skill that is available, you know, in the shallow end of the mindfulness pool for, you know, for people who are beginners or who have intermittent practices. It just it just gets more sophisticated as the deeper you go. Totally. And I think it's, you know, even outside of the mindfulness pool, like there are a lot of really skillful people that I've met who don't meditate. I think about my my wife's mom. She doesn't meditate regularly, but she's very aware. And I think that quality of slowing down and noticing, OK, I'm being impulsive. But instead of playing out that impulsivity, let me pause. I think that's something that we can all train ourselves towards. And just being noticing that being impulsive doesn't necessarily create the best results. So it's like, OK, let me let me hit the pause and see if I can come up with something better. So many of the worst mistakes I've made in my life and that I continue to make are the result of of rushing. I mean, it's just such a such a toxic part of my mind stream. Let's talk about this list, the 11 rules of inner peace. We may not get through all of it, but whatever we get through will be helpful. So rule number one is stay honest. Say more about that. Yeah, I think it's really hard for you to grow or for you to develop like a real sense of inner peace if you're not radically honest with yourself, like being able to, you know, not force yourself to be happy when you actually don't feel good or you feel tired or just being very cognizant of what you're actually feeling in the moment and staying true to that, I think is just the beginning of all wisdom. Like if you know, if you can't see yourself, then it's going to be really hard for you to choose skillful actions. And it's going to be really hard for you to see other people and connect with them. Well, yeah. OK, so I agree with this being honest with yourself and with others. And those two are related. It's incredibly important. And there's so many things about myself that I don't want to look at squarely because it produces shame or rage or whatever. So this is one of these things that's kind of easy to say, but often in practice, quite difficult. Yeah, it's really challenging because when you take a good look at your own inner reality, like what, you know, where are my patterns coming from? Where is this sort of behavior set that I normally lean into? What's it originating from? There are going to be a lot of aspects of your story that are hard to look at, that are painful, that are, you know, there may be some remorse there of things that you've done that you regret. But being able to be honest with yourself and observe yourself, it does not work without self-acceptance and without a degree of compassion, because it's easy to turn inward and then become really hyper negative. But this is not what we're talking about at all. It's about not thinking in black and white, appreciating the gray and realizing that you could simultaneously look inward, fully recognize the past that is really affecting you in the present and just accept that's the reality. But even though I'm such an imperfect person, there creates an opportunity for, you know, there's still the opportunity for growth. One of the hardest things about meditation is not only starting the habit, but keeping it going. A lot of people start and then they fall off the wagon and they feel guilty about it. And then they're like going down the toilet. Well, one of the most powerful ways, according to the research, to keep your habit going is what psychologists call social support, which is a fancy way of saying doing it with other people. And we have built my meditation app, which is called 10% with Dan Harris, around this idea of social support. It's filled, the app is, with lots of great meditations from amazing teachers, also courses from amazing teachers. But we also do weekly live video guided meditation sessions and Q&A session. So you get to do a meditation with me live in real time where you can watch it later if you want or with one of our great meditation teachers and then ask a question and you get to feel like you're doing it all in the carpool lane with a bunch of people who also take this thing seriously. And then we also have community features on the app so you can get in touch with other people and you can ask questions directly of me and the teachers. It's a great way to feel like you're not alone in this thing and you're supported in your meditation practice. If you want to check out my app, which again is called 10% with Dan Harris, you can go to danharris.com. There's a free 14-day trial if you want to check it out before you buy. We'll be right back after this. This time of year, you know what I love? Overshirts. I think that's the technical term for them. These kind of heavy shirts that are like part sweater, part shirt, and you can wear them over another shirt or as I'm doing right now, over a T-shirt. And you know who makes and sells great overshirts? Quince, our longtime sponsor. I was on quince.com the other day and I bought the overshirt that I'm wearing right now. It's a handsome shirt that I love and it will be a go-to for me. And it literally just came in the mail right before I walked into my studio to record this ad. So I'm very excited about it. 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Now available in Canada and the UK and when Quince asks where you heard about them, please let them know it was us. 10% happier. It's the best way to support this show. That flows really nicely into the second of your 11 rules for inner peace, which is heal your past. Yeah, I think that this is a huge one. I think for any individual that wants to be very like, you know, when I think about life, like life is a you're painting on the canvas of life with your actions and to have that be the most genuine process possible you need to be really aware that the actions that you're producing in the present moment often are very driven by your past, especially because your past creates a very heavy layer on your present day perception. So what you see isn't necessarily with great clarity. Oftentimes it'll you'll be assessing the present by how it is similar to what you've experienced before and that can create a lot of limitations on on your reactions and it can create a lot of limitations for you know, sort of for forcing yourself to be impulsive in in ways that are defensive in the ways that you try to defend yourself in the past when you know, you were younger and whatnot, so there's a lot of baggage there and I think when we unpack what's happening inside of us and actually pick up tools that help us create space for that heaviness to become lighter, then you start seeing that you have a lot more options in the present than you thought you did. I should say lighter is the name of one of your other books. I'm a little jealous of that because I thought about calling my next book lighter, but I can't because you took it. Just go for it, man. Yeah. There's space for the both of us. I'm not competing with you in that regard or in any regard. But what do you recommend? I mean because healing your past is kind of a big idea and many of us have very, you know, even even for myself, you know, I've had such a such a privileged life, but there are aspects of my past that are that have taken me a long time to to arrive at any measure of peace with. What are some of the modalities that you would recommend for achieving some sort of healing? Outside of the slowing down that's really available to any of us, whether you meditate or not, I think it's it's also really important to especially in the challenging moments of life to still try to ground yourself in some degree of gratitude. I think hard moments happen and we immediately will forget that we have access to, you know, clean water, a roof over our heads, food, and a lot of people in the world don't have access to that. So grounding yourself in a certain degree of gratitude, I think is really really key for like breaking that pattern of just focusing on the negative that's happening. And then the other aspect is like even having an intellectual understanding of change is very valuable. It's like understanding that this difficulty that's happening right now, this is there's literally never in the history of the universe has there been a storm that has lasted forever. So the storm that's happening in your life, it's just not gonna last forever. It's hard now, but don't think that it will forevermore be hard. Similarly, that truth of change, it helps you much more deeply appreciate the people that are in front of you. Like you don't know how much longer you'll be able to like hang out with your parents or your friends. Like so much is uncontrollable, but I think this quality of slowing down, understanding change at an intellectual level, and having a basis of gratitude can really help you like break those thick old patterns of the past. And in terms of meditating, like, you know, for so many of us like the breath is such a great refuge that can just literally tap you right back into the present moment. When you talk about using an understanding of impermanence, and by the way impermanence is not an esoteric idea, any of us can grasp it. Yeah. When you talk about using that as a way to heal your past, it's just a kind of memory that comes up for me of having a little bit of a breakthrough on, I had spent much of my life kind of subconsciously telling myself the story that I was a bad person. And at some point I realized, and there's a whole story here that I won't bore you with, but I just realized that well, how can I be fundamentally anything? Because there are no foundations. There is no bedrock. Everything is changing all the time. I am made up of like an incalculable gumbo of past causes and conditions, so therefore I can change. And that was just very helpful to realize that in a molecular way. Wow, that's that's real wisdom, Dan. I think that was like, similarly, that's what I walked away from from that 60-day retreat, was like an even deeper appreciation in how, and to say it in really simple terms, like when I get really stressed in my mind, ultimately like what is there, it's there's emptiness there. There's nothing there. There's just so many conditions that are arising and passing away so rapidly. So now what that looks like on a daily basis, like whenever I do feel stress, I have to remind myself, I'm like, dude, you're not even real. Like it's, you're fine. You know, like you're literally fine. You're hanging on to a conception. And like what does the Buddha talk about? He talks about this, you know, on the way to deeper and deeper aspects of the path, we have to let go of more and more of our conceptions. Because conceptions, even though they seem so light, these views can be quite heavy, and they can constrict this ever-flowing, changing reality that it's the truth of what's actually happening, is that there is only change. Let me pick up on the thing you just said about, dude, you're not even real. Some people listening who don't have, who haven't, you know, done a bunch of retreats or haven't spent a lot of time around Buddhism, they're gonna be like, what does that mean? And it's very easy to misunderstand it and also to misapply it. So let me see if I can just say a few words about this concept of, you used the word emptiness, which is a, which is an esoteric concept. Let me see if I can describe it and, and then you, you jump in and tell me where I've gone wrong or what you would add. But so, yes, at the deep end of the pool, if you just understand on a very basic level that everything's changing all the time, well, then how can anything, and I nodded to this earlier, how can any, how can there be any core nugget of Diego? How can there be any core nugget of Dan or you, the viewer or listener? Like, you feel solid. You feel like there's some, you know, little mini you, some CEO version of the self peering out from behind your eyes at the world. If everything's changing all the time, we can all stipulate to that fact. Well, then there is no real core you. So that is, I think, I think people can grasp that argument, but it's important in a, to hold it the right way, because if that's all you're leaning on, you can get pretty nihilistic. Well, there's no real me, nothing matters, fuck it. But the injunction in Buddhism is to, to grasp two realities at the same time. On one level, you are real. You look in the mirror, Diego's staring back at you. So on, on one level, like you, you are real, you have to put your pants on, you got to make dentist appointments, you got to come on this podcast, blah, blah, blah. On some deep, deep level, yes, there's nothing to find. And so it's skillfully navigating these two realities that can help you do life better without going too far in one direction or the other. All right, I said a lot there. What do you think? It sounds like you've been meditating a lot. It sounds, sounds really, really correct. I think the only thing I would add to that is the thing that counteracts the nihilism or the potential for nihilism is the bridge of compassion between these two ideas. It's like, you know, I love that Lady Sayadaw, he talked about, you know, you exist and you also don't exist. And these, both of these things are true. You're not lying about either of them. But then as you cultivate, as you swim deeper in the pool and you start to see the insubstantiality of self, of like, of this, this momentary condition that is Diego, and you start really feeling how, okay, there's nothing really here. Like for me, there are so many moments when I meditate where my entire mind and body system feels like when you open a fresh can of Coca-Cola and, you know, the fizzy bubbles on the top, the gas bubbles, like that's what this thing will feel like. And to me, it's like, okay, well, which, which one of these like quickly popping bubbles is me? Like none of them, it's the, it's the, it's the rapid, like the rapidness of all of that coming together that creates this idea of Diego. But in reality, like even, even down to the observer, like those are all parts, that's you cognizing, that's you having perception, that's you having sensations and the way you react to those sensations. And the beauty of the breakdown and the dissolving of ego is that when you do it in orientation that is, you know, within the Buddhist teaching, like it is going to help create space for the Brahma Viharas to just explode. And the Brahma Viharas are these, these abodes of love, of compassion, of sympathetic joy, of equanimity. And they're heavenly abodes that are really like, that's what the mind is when the mind is clean. So instead of living from a place of ego, like as your understanding of ego dissolves and you're able to see how this stuff is not substantial at all, it just creates this fountain of compassion that just starts flowing from within. And I tell people like, you know, you, we, the ego is a really good survival tool, but in a civilized reality, we have to train ourselves to live from compassion because that's how we cooperate. And it's, compassion is way less messy than ego. A million percent. It was something, I've talked about it on the show a million times, the Tibetan word for enlightenment. I don't know what it is in Tibetan, but I know what it translates into roughly in English, which is clearing away and bringing forth. So you clear away all the ego noise and what comes forth naturally is the good stuff, the, for lack of a less loaded word, love. And that's cheesy. But as another meditation teacher once said, if you can't be cheesy, you can't be free. Yeah. And there's nothing weak about love either. Like love is such a powerful, like space to exist in. Well, so that brings me to, I'm going to skip number three on your list of 11 rules for inner peace. We'll come back to it. But number four is be kind and giving. Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting. I think that this moment, what I'm going to say is not popular. That's okay. Like a lot of people think in terms of manifestation and what they can get. And to me, there is an importance of you have to have a sense of where you're going and where you want to go. But ultimately, I'd rather put more value in the intention and the actions that those intentions then create. And there's this quality of giving. If you want to see the secret of how to receive more in your life, just give. As you keep giving, not only in the moment of giving, you're creating peace in your mind, because that's such a beautiful action to take. But then I do really fundamentally believe like attracts like in this universe. So if you plant those seeds of giving and generosity, then there will be some people down the line who will come and give to you. And there's no time limit on it. Who knows when it'll happen? I have no idea. But I think thinking of karma, not just in the negative sense of like, oh, you do this bad thing and then this other bad thing happens. Sure, there is a certain degree of truth to that. But think about the good that you can create. And the more selflessly that you do it, then, you know, the way the universe is structured, it'll take care of you and good things will come back to you. Yeah, I agree. We live in this era of manifestation and optimization, which is all about acquisition and accumulation. But in fact, the much more reliable route to happiness is generosity. And we see it on the level of the brain. You don't have to wait for some future state for it to pay for you to be paid back in some way. When you're generous, your brain lights up in the same regions that light up when you eat chocolate. Yeah, yeah. I think, too, you know, people don't, they might not know you from the angle that I know you, Dan, but in terms of as a fellow author, and I've seen you as a podcaster for years, you're one of the most generous people that I've encountered. Like, you're always trying to help. And I bet that when you drop a new book or you have something, like people are going to bend over backwards to help you. And that's that, you know, it's going to be fun to help you, because you've been, like, I would look for an opportunity to help you, because you've helped me so much over the years. I really appreciate that. And I'll probably take you up on it. I want to keep going down this list. I realize I skipped number three. We'll come back to it at some point. But number four is be kind and giving. We just talked about it. But you put an interesting counterpoint as number five, which is speak your boundaries. So be kind and giving, but don't be a doormat, I think you're saying. Yeah, it's really important not to slip into people-pleasing and to have a sense of how do you resource yourself? How do you properly care for yourself? Part of that is not always saying yes. It's like knowing how much energy you actually have to give and having that balance between the two. Even, you know, the Buddha would spend... and countless hours helping so many people, but every day he would take rest, meditate, take a dip in nirvana and just help generate himself so that he can continue being a great giver. And I think about that in the same way where the two hours that I meditate every day, to me, that's how I take care of myself. So I'm not gonna give them up just because there's another opportunity or another thing to go to and whatnot. So I try to make sure that I say yes to enough things, but also there's limits to that. I'm reading a biography of the Buddha right now by a monk, Bhikkhunjanamoli. I think it's called The Life of the Buddha. That's the name of the book. And you see the Buddha- Is it the really blue cover? Yes, light blue cover. Dude, that's one of my favorite books. I love that book. It's a banger. And you see the Buddha really sets boundaries. There are times when he just gets so pissed off or annoyed with his sangha, his following, that he will go off and meditate by himself in the forest for a while. And if somebody says something that he disagrees with, he'll say, misguided man, don't believe X or Y. So he was not some punching bag. No, not at all. And it was really skillful. There are even moments in that book and in his teaching where he will clearly point out to someone why they're totally wrong, but then use that as a way to then help them see reality a little more clearly so that they can liberate themselves. That's a great book if anybody wants like a nice introduction to the Buddha's life. And that has a strong sort of scriptural support to it. It's not a traditional biography in that it's not, it doesn't invest heavily in storytelling. He really is drawing, he being the author Bhikkhu Jnanamoli, is drawing directly from the ancient Buddhist texts. So it can at times be a little dry, but actually has very much held my attention nonetheless, just to learn about the actual life from what we can tell from the, as close to contemporaneous documents as we have. It's very, very interesting. Okay, I'm gonna skip around your list just because I wanna make sure I get to the ones that I find maximally interesting. Another on your list of the 11 rules of inner peace, and this may be a little surprising because you're a guy who does two hours of meditation a day and you do 60 day meditation retreats and a lot of what we've talked about is very internal, but connecting with good friends is right here on the list. Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I was hoping you were gonna ask about that. I think part of the most rewarding part of this journey in the first part of the year, so Sarah and I, we went to meditate for 60 days from January 1st to March 3rd at the center called Dhammasindhu of a past in a center that's in Bhuj in India. And we ended up going with about 16 people from the Americas. There were some Canadians, a few people from the United States, two friends who were from Costa Rica. So there was a group of us that all sort of converged in Mumbai. And then we took a 16 hour train up to Bhuj. And it was such a joyful excursion adventure to get to the center that was in the, there's nothing there where the center was. It's right along the water. It's one of the quietest places in India. And then during the retreat, I'm sitting with all these people who, Sarah and I are by far on the younger side of things. There were multiple meditators who were in their 90s. And a lot of people there had been meditating for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. And at the end of the retreat, there was such strong connections that were made that I'm still talking to a lot of these people on a daily basis. And I think about my friends, Kareem and Erica, who are, they're the center teachers over Dhamma Arya in Costa Rica. And Brett and Maria that are the center teachers in Idaho at Dhamma Pasava. And those friendships to me, they're such good people to look up to. Sarah and I have meditated a lot. I asked myself, how much have I meditated in this life so far? And when I put together all of the retreats that I've been in, that I've sat in silence, it's more than a year of my life. But then Kareem and Brett and Erica and Maria have sat so much more than us. They've just sat way more. And having friends like that, that simultaneously can see you well, have the same goal of moving forward on the path, and have those qualities that, honestly, that I look up to. Their wisdom is so strong. I think that having those friendships is just so critical. And that conversation between Ananda and the Buddha about how friendship is the whole path, it really, really is. This path of wisdom that includes ego dissolution can be quite difficult, but your friends can really help you unlock your blind spots and just help you keep learning how to meditate correctly. Just for people who are unfamiliar with that conversation, Ananda was the Buddha's cousin and attendant. And he was the guy who allegedly memorized all of the Buddha's pronouncements. And then those memorizations were preserved through the oral tradition for hundreds of years until it was all written down. Ananda is having a conversation with the Buddha, according to the texts, in which Ananda is coming back from a lively chat with some of his fellow monks and says something to the Buddha, like, I just had this great conversation. Spiritual friendship is like half the path. And the Buddha said, don't say that, it's the whole path. Yeah, yeah, I think, and I, to me, that's sort of, when I made that piece, I was thinking about all the people who I've encountered, as I've been meditating seriously for like 14 years now, and there's been so many people along the way who, you know, these tiny little conversations that can really help light up a part of your mind that then reflects on the practice to make it a little more efficient. It's really invaluable. My wife, Bianca, just went on a major shopping spree on Wayfair.com, one of our favorite spots to buy stuff for the home and a longtime sponsor of this show. Thank you, Wayfair. Bianca did the readout on what she bought, a lot of kitchen stuff like platters, serving platters, and espresso cups. Basically, she's prepping for all of the hosting we are gonna do throughout the holiday season. We love to host. It's something that makes us very happy, and it's much easier when you've got some great stuff that you've acquired through Wayfair.com. 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They also, of course, make socks that you can exercise in. I am a heavy user of Bombas socks for working out. I also wear them when I'm wearing sneakers out and about because they look good, and they're really, really comfortable. And the best part about Bombas, for every item you purchase, they donate an essential clothing item to somebody facing housing insecurity. One purchased equals one donated with over 200 million donations and counting. Head on over to bombas.com slash happier and use the code happier for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com slash happier and use the code happier at checkout. You have connect with good friends on the list. Having said that, one of my little, perhaps overly glib little sayings is, the human curse is that we need other people in order to be happy, and yet other people can be a titanic pain in the ass. And you kind of make a nod to that because several entries below connect with good friends, you also add on your rules for inner peace, don't get attached to drama. Egos are these like really rapidly moving, you know, they have emotion that includes a ton of friction. And when you put different egos in proximity to each other, they will eventually like come in contact with each other and some type of tension will appear. And I think that's what we get, you know, with your roommates, with family members, or in marriages or partnerships, eventually you're gonna rub each other the wrong way and the rough parts of the ego will expose themselves. And I think there's a balance there where we have to realize that we are imperfect, so we will make mistakes, but then in the act of recognizing the mistake, there is an opportunity to actually become closer to the individual that you, you know, especially like when I think about my wife and I, when we have arguments, usually they are happening because we're not seeing each other quite clearly, or there's a part of her story that I'm missing. And in the act of us sharing our perspectives with each other, the tension will evaporate. And like Thich Nhat Hanh saying, you know, love is understanding, like that's a million percent correct. And the moment I can understand another individual, it not only brings us closer together, but I can see you, and then there's no real tension there. But to be able to even get to that point, you have to recognize the drama is there and let it go, and then start working and asking yourself, like how am I gonna help create a new harmony in the environment that I'm a part of? Thich Nhat Hanh, the great Vietnamese Zen master who's sadly no longer with us. Have you, are you familiar with Dr. Bruce Perry? Do you know who that is? No, I'm writing it down right now. He is, he's been on the show. My wife turned me on to him. He's a, Bruce, if I'm gonna mangle your CV, I apologize, but he's a psychologist, psychotherapist, I believe. And everything I'm about to say is to amplify your point about love as understanding. His argument is that instead of asking in moments of tension with your spouse or your boss or anybody, instead of asking what's the matter with you, ask what happened to you. Yeah, so smart, so smart. That's really, really wise because that's how my wife and I conceptualize it too. It's like, tell me how this series of events moved for you. Like I don't, because I wasn't there. I'm not in your perspective, so share that with me. That's really, really skillful. And it gets to what we've been talking about, the nature of change. We are all constituted by these, by this bigger, too big to quantify past prior causes and conditions that are all, you know, that we're living on the lip of every nanosecond. And of course, you know, things that arise in the present moment for us, we're gonna be bringing to bear our past causes and conditions unless, you know, we're fully enlightened. And seeing other people, seeing yourself this way is a recipe for compassion and seeing other people this way is a recipe for compassion. Yeah, I think, I mean, you hit at a really core challenge of for any human being that like to see a situation or a person objectively, like that requires mental training. And because normally our situation is one where as soon as we're interacting with anything, we're projecting onto it. We're like, oh, is it like this? Is it, you know, we're just throwing something on top of it because we're trying to categorize it. We're trying to, you know, when you're cognizing something, you also want to like frame it in some way and have some sort of like evaluation to it. And that can be really challenging when the evaluation is totally dependent on something that happened to you when you were eight years old. And it's totally disconnected from what's happening right now. I started this podcast talking about the fact that, you know, inner peace has been ground down into meaninglessness through, you know, careless use of the concept in our culture. But the inner child is another concept that has been the victim of a lot of rhetorical violence as well. And so, but it's true, like your three-year-old, your five-year-old self is in the mind and can, you know, rear up and kick somebody in the jaw if you don't take care of it. Yeah, and I think that's, you know, those early years were really formative, but I also, that's why I like the way the Buddha. sort of understands the mind. And I personally think he understands the mind better than any other human being. But, you know, the way the subconscious is formatted and shaped, it doesn't stop when you're like seven or eight years old. I think moments of heartbreak, moments of divorce, moments of, you know, when a parent passes away when you're in your mid-20s or 30s, these moments can create such deep reactions that they will literally shape how these patterns in the subconscious are bound together. And it can really sort of, you know, predispose you to just like feeling that sadness, that grief over and over again, especially if you don't have any tools to help you feel without fueling, without making that worse. That kind of leads me to another entry on your list. I'm jumping around now, but this is number six on the list of 11 Rules of Inner Peace, which, again, is from the book, The New Book Journey. Pause instead of reacting. Now, we talked about this a little bit at the beginning of the episode, but I think it bears some repetition. So hold forth if you don't mind. Yeah. If you're listening to this and if there's anything that you're going to take away, take away the value of how important it is to slow down. Like slowing down is one of the most, like, it just will provide incredible results for you, because we often confuse our impulsiveness for being our genuine selves, when really your impulsiveness is directly connected to your past patterns, you know, whatever those reactions are. And in the act of pausing, slowing down, you're actually creating space so that you're not just repeating the past over and over again, but you are allowing yourself to realign with, like, what are my values in this moment? How do I actually want to show up? What feels much more intuitively correct, as opposed to impulsively correct? And I think there's just this enormous value. What I'm hoping that the trend that I'm seeing, you know, because we're so plugged into what's happening with social media, and I see these trends come and go, I'm noticing that people are getting more interested in the topic of slowing down, because there's just so much coming at them. And I think this is an excellent topic to explore, because it provides, you know, it's one of the gateways for peace. Like, if you're moving too fast and you're being impulsive all the time, good luck trying to be peaceful. So you talk about the value of slowing down. I agree with you. But speediness is baked into our culture at a molecular level. We are processing enormous amounts of information. We are, in this economy, some of us are, you know, working a job and a half at least. Many of us have kids. You know, the speed of life is just, it's relentless. So if somebody is watching or listening to this and hearing you on the value of slowing down, but feeling like they can't, what would you recommend? It's a really simple sentence. I really think that slowing down doesn't mean that you aren't ambitious. It means that you are intentionally focusing your energy. And I think that's where, you know, this like busy world that we live in, where it's great, have your goals, have, you know, you wanting to build a beautiful home for you and your family, or achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve. Nothing wrong with that. But slowing down doesn't mean you decrease your ambition. It means that you are knowing what you're actually saying yes to, and you are focusing your energy. And I think that's way more, you know, it's really quite valuable because it's easy to get lost in opportunity as well. I would guess there are many constituent parts to slowing down in your view. One of them is learning to say no and being more deliberate so that you're, and this is a problem I've faced many times, so that your calendar isn't a war zone, as mine often is, which makes it really hard to slow down. But another part of slowing down is just having practices. You don't have to meditate. It can be as simple as, you know, just taking a walk, connecting with a friend, whatever it is that allows you to put the devices away and live in the stream of reality as it's actually happening non-digitally. Yeah, going for a walk, that's been my, like, one of the biggest medicines that I've given to myself this year because it feels like, you know, when I finish the 60-day retreat and I turn my phone on for the first time, I could feel like I go on social media and not only do I feel the mindfulness just tanking, but I can feel how the internet is feeding me things that are trying to get me mad. Like, as I'm scrolling, it's like, okay, this guy hasn't been on for two months. Like, how can we keep him on? It's like, let's try to make him mad about things so that he can spend more time looking things up. And I'm like, wow, I can feel the immediate manipulation of how this thing's trying to contort my emotions in all these different ways. So, I just shut it down and I was like, I'm gonna go back to it another day because it was so intense how immediate the manipulation was. And having moments to, like, go for a walk, I feel so blessed that my wife and I, we live in Western Mass and there are all these rail trails here where, you know, old rail lines that no longer are in use and they get pulled out and they get turned into these long, you know, miles and miles long, you know, pedestrian walkways. And people run on them, they ride bikes on them. And just being out there immersed, like, in these huge trees, like, oh man, it's, you know, we forget what being human is. As somebody who talks for a living, I have a soft spot for any tool where the main thing you have to do is just explain what you want. Today's sponsor, Base44, is one of those things. Think about a system you already know inside and out, like how your team brings on a new client, for example. You could probably walk a colleague through it in two minutes. 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As the executive director of the Honnold Foundation, Emily Tightsworth works to expand access to solar energy in communities around the world, supporting locally led projects that bring reliable power, greater independence and opportunity where it is needed most. On the podcast Planet Visionaries, professional climber and Honnold Foundation founder Alex Honnold goes beyond the headlines with Emily to explore practical solutions for a more equitable future. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts. Let me ask you about social media. I didn't mention this at the start of the episode. I mentioned it during your past appearances, but for anybody who's coming to you fresh, they may not know that you really burst into the collective community. Burst into the collective consciousness through Instagram, through poetry, Buddhist inflected poetry that you were writing and posting on Instagram that then turned into this thriving publishing career and a sub stack and many and speaking and events and many, many other things. I suspect many people listening and I would include myself here would be curious about how you balance your deep interest in Buddhism and Buddhist wisdom and social media, which seems like, you know, some Sarah on steroids, some Sarah being the Buddhist word for, you know, the suffering that comes from living a life where you're just completely hostage to your likes and dislikes. Yeah, I think it's the contradiction of being a millennial, you know, like I really, you know, I took the Buddhist path really seriously starting in 2012 when I first started meditating. And then around 2013, like it was sometime after my third course, I really felt like I should write, you know, like I'm not fully wise, I'm not fully healed, but I can feel that my mind is getting lighter. Let me start reflecting because I wanted to make sure that one, I was personally making sense of what I was learning. And I was also curious if other people were on similar journeys, whether they meditated this, you know, what I was meditating or not. And the most immediate place where I knew people were was Instagram. That's where all my friends were posting and whatnot back in 2014. And then over time, I, you know, it's really, it was a great vehicle for me to like, learn my voice as an author, especially in terms of poetry. And then Substack was great for me to, you know, start writing essays and then eventually create nonfiction books. But I'm excited about what's happening now in one of the, you know, I mean, AI is such a complex, complex situation, a lot of big positives and a lot of big negatives. And but one thing that I'm hoping for is that as AI becomes ever more dominant in the social media landscape, that what we get is seeing human connection as a new premium. So I'm excited for, you know, live events. Like, I'm excited to like, be able to connect with people in person. Like I, the other day I did this event called Reading Rhythms in New York City, where it was like a three hour event that was built around people reading together. Like we were all like reading together. And then, you know, I got to speak, answer people's questions, but there's all these like cool new events where people can actually connect. And I think the times where, you know, like everything on social media just feels so fake. And so like, you just can't trust anything. We're going to want to see our favorite singers sing. We're going to want to see plays. We're going to want to see like our favorite writers speak. I'm excited for this sort of like next generation of, you know, let's bring back human connection because being online sucks. It's just not as fun as it used to be. Yes, I totally agree. I do. And I do think that one positive will be the deep human thirst for, you know, IRL connection reasserting itself. Before I let you go, we, as predicted, we're not going to get to all 11 of the rules, but I do want to touch on the last one. I assume you put it last I assume you put it last for a reason. So I want to hear you out on it. Be flexible. Change is inevitable. I think this is when we talk about attachments, right? The craving for things to exist in a very particular way. Attachment is inflexibility. It's you not having a good understanding of what is your actual field of control. Like your field of control is just your actions. When you try to expand beyond that, then you're really trying to control too much. And what that shows, the inverse of that is like, hey, you like are very inflexible. And when we think about, okay, how is reality structured? This reality is one where everything is in motion at every single level of existence, as a matter of if it's atomic, biological, cosmological, everything is flowing and changing. And what does that demand of any individual, it's like you either go with the flow or you're going to get knocked around. And I think when change has this incredible quality, not only to start creating inner peace, like when you embrace change, but change itself is the ultimate doorway to liberational wisdom. When you really start embracing change and feeling it, it just opens up all these insights. The ones that we've been talking about through this podcast, these insights of, okay, everything is change. What does that mean for life? That means that there's going to be stress in life. There's going to be dissatisfaction in life. There's going to be these challenges in life. And then you take that even deeper and it's like, what is change telling you about what it means to be human? It means that the ego is substantially impermanent, that there's nothing fixed about it. And identity becomes very difficult when you slap labels onto yourself. And you think that those labels will always be the same when instead you should let your identity flow and be loose so that your preferences keep evolving over time. And you can keep learning and adapting and growing. One of the sections in Journey, the new book, it's this section about air, the quality of air, and the biggest quality of air is adaptability. And there's a lot of peace that we can develop in ourselves when we become more adaptable. When we become flexible. I mean, I think about, I've got 55 years of anxiety under my belt. Some of the moments where it lifts are when I picture, because I compulsively, or I have the tendency to compulsively picture the worst possible outcome. And if I can have the wisdom to note to myself, yeah, okay, I'm not in control, that horrible thing that I just conjured in my mind may come to pass. But I'm pretty sure I have the skills to handle whatever whatever comes. And to me, that perspective and flexibility can momentarily puncture the anxiety, if that makes any sense. Absolutely. Can I ask you one quick question? Yeah, of course you can. Do you meditate every year in a retreat? Because the Dan that I'm talking to you now, every time I talk to you, I love it because I feel like I'm clearly not Not the same and you're clearly not the same. So I'm curious cuz you you're putting time in dude Well, I do I do 10. Thank you for saying that I do 10 days a year this this nice This year I did 14. Although it was the hardest retreat I've ever done. I would there was a bunch of stuff going on I won't bore you with it. But yeah, I almost left a bunch and it was really really hard And yeah, I do find So often I'm like on my way to the retreat like why the fuck am I doing this? This is gonna be horrible and yet there's something about the accumulation of that amount of cushion time over Overtime just kind of gets gets this the stuff that you and I are talking about intellectually here You can get it into your marrow Oddly by sitting there and doing nothing. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, it's like you got to take yourself to the mental gym and yes, you know when you when you go to these retreats, it sometimes feels like a Tom Brady's like taking you in his hand and just throwing you down the field and then you finish your training like whoa this You know, this is a way better way to exist and how it was before before I let you go Did DJ our producer did he mention to you that we have this segment that we're doing now called what's good? I might have missed it. But what is it? I'm down to play It's it's totally fine if you don't want to play but we're just doing this quick little segment at the end called What's good where you tell me about like one record or TV show or movie or book? Oh, yeah, or anything that you read recently that you would recommend that I give you one you go What I absolutely recommend and not enough people are watching is silo on Apple TV Oh, really, dude, that show is So freaking good and it's such a crazy experiment For yeah, the guy who wrote it brilliant and the way they're adapting out the TV. My wife and I love the show and Recently I've been reading the will of the many Maybe science fiction or fantasy. I'm not sure what it is, but it's pretty good. Okay, I'm gonna check out silo. It's on Apple TV Apple TV Plus and it's in its third season I was just reading about it last night something positive about it and I have not yet made the leap So I will check it out Yeah And the there's gonna be a fourth season and then they're wrapping it up which I love I love things that have a clear beginning Clear ending. So yeah get into it. It's good, man. I'm gonna give you a much something much more lowbrow. I watched a documentary on Netflix recently called ray gun breaking badly It's it. Did you see it? No, but I've been watching a lot of people reacting to it. So I'm gonna I'll check it out Okay, so I'm not here to tell you it's some like highbrow thing. But for those of you who? Are unfamiliar with ray gun She's a it's the breakdancing name of this young woman from Australia who ended up in the Olympics competing in a way that a lot of people found to be offensive and embarrassing and what you know, I remembered the video of her breaking badly and You know, I just had this kind of reflexive judgment about what it was and you know I had a whole story about her and I think we all did but seeing the documentary It just it gave me a completely different view and in the Dharma we talked you made a reference to this that that our attachment to our views can be such a source of suffering and understanding what she was all about even if I still don't fully agree with her or you know, I Not necessarily sure. She should have been in the Olympics. It gave me so much more Understanding and compassion for her and it's it's just it's just frankly a good story. Dude. I'm gonna check it out Please do okay. I just want to remind everybody Diego Perez who writes under the name young Pueblo y-u-n-g P-u-e-b-l-o his new book is called journey the year that changes everything. He's written many many other books I'm gonna put links to the new book and to our past conversations and his sub stack and his Instagram in The show notes, so you should go take a deep dive on young Pueblo aka Diego Diego always a pleasure to talk to you Congratulations again on the new book and thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thank you to Dan Thank you for listening If you enjoy this show, please do me and my team a solid Wherever you listen or watch the show give us a rating and actually it's got a little bit of extra time Give us a review as well These really help us grow the show and more importantly help us spread the good news that the mind is trainable now to the credits Thank you so much to everybody who works so hard to make this show 10% happier is produced by Tara Anderson Marissa Schneiderman DJ cashmere David Hart and Hayden Broome Post-production is handled by the great folks over at Greenhorn creative and Nick Thorburn of the great indie rock band islands wrote our theme Thank you for listening deuces you're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind Here's a helpful fact. You might not know yet drivers who switch and save with progressive save over $900 on average pop over to progressive.com answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by in fact 99% of Their auto customers earn at least one discount visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates national average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with progressive between June 2024 and May 2025 potential savings will vary Rubric is the security and AI operations company built for what happens after an attack hits Not just the moment before AI has turned the threat landscape into quicksand moving too fast for any human to fully predict That's why an agentic cyber resilience platform matters automated recovery clean data a business that keeps moving No matter what hits one platform not a patchwork of stitched together tools and gaps Don't wait for the next attack secure and accelerate your business at rubric calm again rubric calm