How Obsession Built Christopher Nolan

Christopher Nolan had just spent a long Christopher Nolan had just spent a long anxious year trying to secure anxious year trying to secure anxious year trying to secure distribution. He had been turned down by distribution. He had been turned down by distribution. He had been turned down by every distributor in town with the same every distributor in town with the same every distributor in town with the same variation of this is great, we love it, variation of this is great, we love it, variation of this is great, we love it, we really want to work with you, but we really want to work with you, but we really want to work with you, but this is not for us. This film was this is not for us. This film was this is not for us. This film was personal to him. Momento was born into personal to him. Momento was born into personal to him. Momento was born into the world on the back of obsession. the world on the back of obsession. the world on the back of obsession. Failure to find expression would have Failure to find expression would have Failure to find expression would have been almost inconceivable to Christopher been almost inconceivable to Christopher been almost inconceivable to Christopher Nolan. Nolan made the movie because he Nolan. Nolan made the movie because he Nolan. Nolan made the movie because he had to. What happens when you make a had to. What happens when you make a had to. What happens when you make a film is you burrow into it. You dig in film is you burrow into it. You dig in film is you burrow into it. You dig in so deep, so you kind of can't see it so deep, so you kind of can't see it so deep, so you kind of can't see it anymore. You're fully immersed in it. He anymore. You're fully immersed in it. He anymore. You're fully immersed in it. He said, "The only thing you can do is said, "The only thing you can do is said, "The only thing you can do is trust your initial instincts. You just trust your initial instincts. You just trust your initial instincts. You just have to say, "This is what I'm making. have to say, "This is what I'm making. have to say, "This is what I'm making. This is what I'm doing. It's going to This is what I'm doing. It's going to This is what I'm doing. It's going to work. Just trust it." Momento would go work. Just trust it." Momento would go work. Just trust it." Momento would go on to earn two Oscar nominations, nearly on to earn two Oscar nominations, nearly on to earn two Oscar nominations, nearly two years to the day after that two years to the day after that two years to the day after that disastrous screening for distributors. disastrous screening for distributors. disastrous screening for distributors. Nolan's ascent since that movie has been Nolan's ascent since that movie has been Nolan's ascent since that movie has been near vertical. In the space of two near vertical. In the space of two near vertical. In the space of two decades, Christopher Nolan has gone from decades, Christopher Nolan has gone from decades, Christopher Nolan has gone from eating out microbudgeted threeinut eating out microbudgeted threeinut eating out microbudgeted threeinut shorts to making billiondoll shorts to making billiondoll shorts to making billiondoll blockbusters. Nolan's films have earned blockbusters. Nolan's films have earned blockbusters. Nolan's films have earned over $5 billion at the box office. To over $5 billion at the box office. To over $5 billion at the box office. To the studios, he is as close to a sure the studios, he is as close to a sure the studios, he is as close to a sure thing as a director gets. One of the few thing as a director gets. One of the few thing as a director gets. One of the few filmmakers who can walk into a studio filmmakers who can walk into a studio filmmakers who can walk into a studio with an original script idea and walk with an original script idea and walk with an original script idea and walk out with the $200 million necessary to out with the $200 million necessary to out with the $200 million necessary to make it. Like Spielberg and George Lucas make it. Like Spielberg and George Lucas make it. Like Spielberg and George Lucas before him, he has become a franchise before him, he has become a franchise before him, he has become a franchise unto himself. And unusual for a director unto himself. And unusual for a director unto himself. And unusual for a director working at this level, he has either working at this level, he has either working at this level, he has either written or had a hand in writing all 11 written or had a hand in writing all 11 written or had a hand in writing all 11 of his movies to date, granting him of his movies to date, granting him of his movies to date, granting him entry into a very exclusive club of entry into a very exclusive club of entry into a very exclusive club of directors. Among his collaborators, he directors. Among his collaborators, he directors. Among his collaborators, he is known for his punctuality, is known for his punctuality, is known for his punctuality, discipline, and secrecy. Of the more discipline, and secrecy. Of the more discipline, and secrecy. Of the more than 600 people who worked on Dunkirk, than 600 people who worked on Dunkirk, than 600 people who worked on Dunkirk, only 20 were allowed to read the script. only 20 were allowed to read the script. only 20 were allowed to read the script. Copies of the script, which were kept on Copies of the script, which were kept on Copies of the script, which were kept on set, were watermarked with the actors set, were watermarked with the actors set, were watermarked with the actors names so that any missing copies could names so that any missing copies could names so that any missing copies could be traced back to their negligent be traced back to their negligent be traced back to their negligent owners. Nolan came, this is hilarious, owners. Nolan came, this is hilarious, owners. Nolan came, this is hilarious, when he he's trying to recruit people to when he he's trying to recruit people to when he he's trying to recruit people to be in his movie. They're like, great, be in his movie. They're like, great, be in his movie. They're like, great, send over the script. I'll read it. send over the script. I'll read it. send over the script. I'll read it. Well, he's coming with the script. So, Well, he's coming with the script. So, Well, he's coming with the script. So, it says Nolan came to the actor's house it says Nolan came to the actor's house it says Nolan came to the actor's house with a copy of the script. Nolan with a copy of the script. Nolan with a copy of the script. Nolan insisted on staying with him, drinking insisted on staying with him, drinking insisted on staying with him, drinking tea in the actor's living room until he tea in the actor's living room until he tea in the actor's living room until he had finished the script and then took it had finished the script and then took it had finished the script and then took it away with him. He refuses to use a away with him. He refuses to use a away with him. He refuses to use a second unit, preferring to shoot every second unit, preferring to shoot every second unit, preferring to shoot every frame himself. Minds don't wander on a frame himself. Minds don't wander on a frame himself. Minds don't wander on a Chris Nolan set, said Matthew McConna. Chris Nolan set, said Matthew McConna. Chris Nolan set, said Matthew McConna. Nolan is known by his crews for shooting Nolan is known by his crews for shooting Nolan is known by his crews for shooting fast, starting at 7:00 a.m. and fast, starting at 7:00 a.m. and fast, starting at 7:00 a.m. and finishing at 7:00 p.m. with a single finishing at 7:00 p.m. with a single finishing at 7:00 p.m. with a single break for lunch. He has the kind of break for lunch. He has the kind of break for lunch. He has the kind of passionate following one associates with passionate following one associates with passionate following one associates with a cult director. Critics have received a cult director. Critics have received a cult director. Critics have received death threats when they give his films a death threats when they give his films a death threats when they give his films a bad review. He has the mystique of a bad review. He has the mystique of a bad review. He has the mystique of a magician who takes his applause below magician who takes his applause below magician who takes his applause below the stage having just disappeared the stage having just disappeared the stage having just disappeared through it. People will say to me, through it. People will say to me, through it. People will say to me, "There are people online who are "There are people online who are "There are people online who are obsessed with Inception or obsessed with obsessed with Inception or obsessed with obsessed with Inception or obsessed with Mento. They're asking me to comment on Mento. They're asking me to comment on Mento. They're asking me to comment on that as if I thought it was weird or that as if I thought it was weird or that as if I thought it was weird or something." And I'm like, "Well, I was something." And I'm like, "Well, I was something." And I'm like, "Well, I was obsessed with it for years. Genuinely obsessed with it for years. Genuinely obsessed with it for years. Genuinely obsessed with it, so it doesn't strike obsessed with it, so it doesn't strike obsessed with it, so it doesn't strike me as weird. Every film I do, I have to me as weird. Every film I do, I have to me as weird. Every film I do, I have to believe that I'm making the best film believe that I'm making the best film believe that I'm making the best film that's ever been made. Films are really that's ever been made. Films are really that's ever been made. Films are really hard to make. They are all consuming. hard to make. They are all consuming. hard to make. They are all consuming. So, it had never occurred to me that So, it had never occurred to me that So, it had never occurred to me that there are people doing it who weren't there are people doing it who weren't there are people doing it who weren't trying to make the best film that ever trying to make the best film that ever trying to make the best film that ever was. Why would you do this otherwise? was. Why would you do this otherwise? was. Why would you do this otherwise? Even if it's not going to be the best Even if it's not going to be the best Even if it's not going to be the best film that's ever been made, you have to film that's ever been made, you have to film that's ever been made, you have to believe that it could be. You just pour believe that it could be. You just pour believe that it could be. You just pour yourself into it. And when it affects yourself into it. And when it affects yourself into it. And when it affects someone that way, that is a huge thrill someone that way, that is a huge thrill someone that way, that is a huge thrill for me. It is a huge thrill. I feel like for me. It is a huge thrill. I feel like for me. It is a huge thrill. I feel like I've managed to wrap them up in it the I've managed to wrap them up in it the I've managed to wrap them up in it the way I try to wrap myself up in it. That way I try to wrap myself up in it. That way I try to wrap myself up in it. That is an excerpt from the book that I'm is an excerpt from the book that I'm is an excerpt from the book that I'm going to talk to you about today, which going to talk to you about today, which going to talk to you about today, which is The Nolan Variations: The Movies, is The Nolan Variations: The Movies, is The Nolan Variations: The Movies, Mysteries, and Marvels of Christopher Mysteries, and Marvels of Christopher Mysteries, and Marvels of Christopher Nolan. And it was written by Tom Shown. Nolan. And it was written by Tom Shown. Nolan. And it was written by Tom Shown. One of my favorite books I ever read, I One of my favorite books I ever read, I One of my favorite books I ever read, I think the first time I read it was about think the first time I read it was about think the first time I read it was about three years ago. And with Christopher three years ago. And with Christopher three years ago. And with Christopher Nolan's new movie coming back out, uh Nolan's new movie coming back out, uh Nolan's new movie coming back out, uh I've just been thinking about especially I've just been thinking about especially I've just been thinking about especially his idea that he wants to live in an his idea that he wants to live in an his idea that he wants to live in an analog world. So there's like a handful analog world. So there's like a handful analog world. So there's like a handful of ideas. There's probably like six of ideas. There's probably like six of ideas. There's probably like six ideas that we'll repeat over and over ideas that we'll repeat over and over ideas that we'll repeat over and over again. uh because we're going to move again. uh because we're going to move again. uh because we're going to move through the book in chronological order, through the book in chronological order, through the book in chronological order, which also covers his filmography in which also covers his filmography in which also covers his filmography in chronological order, but I'd say he has chronological order, but I'd say he has chronological order, but I'd say he has a handful of ideas that he just repeats a handful of ideas that he just repeats a handful of ideas that he just repeats over and over again. And one of them over and over again. And one of them over and over again. And one of them that's been on my mind is his desire to that's been on my mind is his desire to that's been on my mind is his desire to live in this analog world. So, we're live in this analog world. So, we're live in this analog world. So, we're going to go right into that. That'll going to go right into that. That'll going to go right into that. That'll that's something that will reappear that's something that will reappear that's something that will reappear throughout our conversation today. And throughout our conversation today. And throughout our conversation today. And it goes into the fact that Nolan does it goes into the fact that Nolan does it goes into the fact that Nolan does not have an email account or a not have an email account or a not have an email account or a smartphone. He has like a like a flip smartphone. He has like a like a flip smartphone. He has like a like a flip phone. So, the the the basis of this phone. So, the the the basis of this phone. So, the the the basis of this book was a series of interviews done book was a series of interviews done book was a series of interviews done over many years with Christopher Nolan over many years with Christopher Nolan over many years with Christopher Nolan and Tom Shown. And so if Tom wants to and Tom Shown. And so if Tom wants to and Tom Shown. And so if Tom wants to get in touch with Chris, he's got to go get in touch with Chris, he's got to go get in touch with Chris, he's got to go through his assistant. And eventually through his assistant. And eventually through his assistant. And eventually Chris will say, "Okay, I'll meet you Chris will say, "Okay, I'll meet you Chris will say, "Okay, I'll meet you here in this physical location at this here in this physical location at this here in this physical location at this time in this day." And so he wants to he time in this day." And so he wants to he time in this day." And so he wants to he talks about over and over again about talks about over and over again about talks about over and over again about making sure that we're using technology making sure that we're using technology making sure that we're using technology and that technology is not using us and and that technology is not using us and and that technology is not using us and that he wants to live in an analog that he wants to live in an analog that he wants to live in an analog world. In fact, it sounds very similar world. In fact, it sounds very similar world. In fact, it sounds very similar if you listen to a few weeks ago when I if you listen to a few weeks ago when I if you listen to a few weeks ago when I did the episode on the founder of Honda. did the episode on the founder of Honda. did the episode on the founder of Honda. He talked about that. He's like, "We are He talked about that. He's like, "We are He talked about that. He's like, "We are building technology to serve man, not building technology to serve man, not building technology to serve man, not the other way around. Make sure that you the other way around. Make sure that you the other way around. Make sure that you are using the machines and the machines are using the machines and the machines are using the machines and the machines are not using you." who is what the are not using you." who is what the are not using you." who is what the Honda founder says. So then he just goes Honda founder says. So then he just goes Honda founder says. So then he just goes into the fact that hey uh I would say into the fact that hey uh I would say into the fact that hey uh I would say the main idea of the book uh is the fact the main idea of the book uh is the fact the main idea of the book uh is the fact that obsession is the engine for his that obsession is the engine for his that obsession is the engine for his entire career and he he's going to give entire career and he he's going to give entire career and he he's going to give a lot of his life energy into his craft a lot of his life energy into his craft a lot of his life energy into his craft into his work. He considers himself a into his work. He considers himself a into his work. He considers himself a craftsman and if I'm going to be giving craftsman and if I'm going to be giving craftsman and if I'm going to be giving over my limited life energy you know the over my limited life energy you know the over my limited life energy you know the only finite resource I have I will run only finite resource I have I will run only finite resource I have I will run out of time one day then what we're out of time one day then what we're out of time one day then what we're making has to be great. It has to be the making has to be great. It has to be the making has to be great. It has to be the best. And I love what he said. It's best. And I love what he said. It's best. And I love what he said. It's like, listen, I'm going into this with like, listen, I'm going into this with like, listen, I'm going into this with every movie assuming that I'm going to every movie assuming that I'm going to every movie assuming that I'm going to make the best movie there ever was. Now, make the best movie there ever was. Now, make the best movie there ever was. Now, he knows that's not going to be the he knows that's not going to be the he knows that's not going to be the outcome, but he acts as if that is going outcome, but he acts as if that is going outcome, but he acts as if that is going to be the outcome. I love that. So, he to be the outcome. I love that. So, he to be the outcome. I love that. So, he says, I find filming very difficult. I says, I find filming very difficult. I says, I find filming very difficult. I find it totally engaging, but it's an find it totally engaging, but it's an find it totally engaging, but it's an arduous process. There's a lot of strain arduous process. There's a lot of strain arduous process. There's a lot of strain on the family, a lot of strain on my on the family, a lot of strain on my on the family, a lot of strain on my personal relationships. It takes a lot personal relationships. It takes a lot personal relationships. It takes a lot of physical strength. So, the movie's of physical strength. So, the movie's of physical strength. So, the movie's got to be great. It's got to be got to be great. It's got to be got to be great. It's got to be something that I love. And then he talks something that I love. And then he talks something that I love. And then he talks about the fact that he likes to do the about the fact that he likes to do the about the fact that he likes to do the work. I we'll get into the the the even work. I we'll get into the the the even work. I we'll get into the the the even though he's known now, you know, he's though he's known now, you know, he's though he's known now, you know, he's made billions and billions of dollars at made billions and billions of dollars at made billions and billions of dollars at the box office. He's had this the box office. He's had this the box office. He's had this multi-deade partnership with a major multi-deade partnership with a major multi-deade partnership with a major movie studio, he likes being involved in movie studio, he likes being involved in movie studio, he likes being involved in all aspects of the movie. And like I all aspects of the movie. And like I all aspects of the movie. And like I said at the in the very beginning, he said at the in the very beginning, he said at the in the very beginning, he either wrote the entire script or had a either wrote the entire script or had a either wrote the entire script or had a hand in writing the script of every hand in writing the script of every hand in writing the script of every single one of his movies. And he talks single one of his movies. And he talks single one of his movies. And he talks about this. He goes, "I'm not really about this. He goes, "I'm not really about this. He goes, "I'm not really looking for a script to come fully looking for a script to come fully looking for a script to come fully formed and land on my desk. No project formed and land on my desk. No project formed and land on my desk. No project that I've ever been involved with has that I've ever been involved with has that I've ever been involved with has been like that." He doesn't like that. been like that." He doesn't like that. been like that." He doesn't like that. He wants to have complete control. Now He wants to have complete control. Now He wants to have complete control. Now he talks about how the fact that he he talks about how the fact that he he talks about how the fact that he enjoys screenlight writing and then how enjoys screenlight writing and then how enjoys screenlight writing and then how he does it. I enjoy writing screenplays he does it. I enjoy writing screenplays he does it. I enjoy writing screenplays because they are very stripped down because they are very stripped down because they are very stripped down simple documents and the more stripped simple documents and the more stripped simple documents and the more stripped down they are the better they are. So down they are the better they are. So down they are the better they are. So it's interesting. I went back and looked it's interesting. I went back and looked it's interesting. I went back and looked at some of my old highlights for this at some of my old highlights for this at some of my old highlights for this book. This is a different I have I had book. This is a different I have I had book. This is a different I have I had the hard cop cover before. Now this is the hard cop cover before. Now this is the hard cop cover before. Now this is uh the paperback. But I went in and and uh the paperback. But I went in and and uh the paperback. But I went in and and searched all my highlights for this searched all my highlights for this searched all my highlights for this book. And when I got to that section, I book. And when I got to that section, I book. And when I got to that section, I had forgotten one of my favorite uh one had forgotten one of my favorite uh one had forgotten one of my favorite uh one of my personal heroes is this guy named of my personal heroes is this guy named of my personal heroes is this guy named David Oggovy. He built, you know, one of David Oggovy. He built, you know, one of David Oggovy. He built, you know, one of the most successful advertising agencies the most successful advertising agencies the most successful advertising agencies of all time. I found him because I was of all time. I found him because I was of all time. I found him because I was reading through all of uh Warren reading through all of uh Warren reading through all of uh Warren Buffett's shareholder letters and he Buffett's shareholder letters and he Buffett's shareholder letters and he kept calling this guy David Olga a kept calling this guy David Olga a kept calling this guy David Olga a genius. I'm like, well, Warren Buffett's genius. I'm like, well, Warren Buffett's genius. I'm like, well, Warren Buffett's calling you a genius. I need to go, you calling you a genius. I need to go, you calling you a genius. I need to go, you know, research this guy. So, I started know, research this guy. So, I started know, research this guy. So, I started reading about him. So, David, one of his reading about him. So, David, one of his reading about him. So, David, one of his bosses before he was a found founder of bosses before he was a found founder of bosses before he was a found founder of his own company, this idea that's like his own company, this idea that's like his own company, this idea that's like you you need to just strip things down. you you need to just strip things down. you you need to just strip things down. you need to get to the essence. This is you need to get to the essence. This is you need to get to the essence. This is something that Nolan will repeat over something that Nolan will repeat over something that Nolan will repeat over and over again. And you'll see I like and over again. And you'll see I like and over again. And you'll see I like that he's starting with the written that he's starting with the written that he's starting with the written document uh because he sees that he's document uh because he sees that he's document uh because he sees that he's got this really clear thinking and he got this really clear thinking and he got this really clear thinking and he knows the essence of what he's trying to knows the essence of what he's trying to knows the essence of what he's trying to make. But David Ogrey's boss taught him make. But David Ogrey's boss taught him make. But David Ogrey's boss taught him the the importance of what he called the the the importance of what he called the the the importance of what he called the TUR memo. So he would send you a TUR memo. So he would send you a TUR memo. So he would send you a message, David Ogre's boss, and it be message, David Ogre's boss, and it be message, David Ogre's boss, and it be it'd have three responses, right? So you it'd have three responses, right? So you it'd have three responses, right? So you you send him, you know, hey boss, I what you send him, you know, hey boss, I what you send him, you know, hey boss, I what do you think of this, you know, this do you think of this, you know, this do you think of this, you know, this thing we're working on? You get come thing we're working on? You get come thing we're working on? You get come back to you in one of three ways. Yes, back to you in one of three ways. Yes, back to you in one of three ways. Yes, no, or speak. And if he says speak, that no, or speak. And if he says speak, that no, or speak. And if he says speak, that means come see me and we're actually means come see me and we're actually means come see me and we're actually gonna talk. It's faster than me writing gonna talk. It's faster than me writing gonna talk. It's faster than me writing it out. But I love that. Yes, no, or it out. But I love that. Yes, no, or it out. But I love that. Yes, no, or speak. Uh, then he gets into the fact speak. Uh, then he gets into the fact speak. Uh, then he gets into the fact that he says, I feel more of a craftsman that he says, I feel more of a craftsman that he says, I feel more of a craftsman than an artist. Everybody says, you than an artist. Everybody says, you than an artist. Everybody says, you know, if you're a filmmaker, you're an know, if you're a filmmaker, you're an know, if you're a filmmaker, you're an artist, you're you're making a movie, artist, you're you're making a movie, artist, you're you're making a movie, you're making art. Christopher Nolan you're making art. Christopher Nolan you're making art. Christopher Nolan says, you know, I I'm a craftsman, not says, you know, I I'm a craftsman, not says, you know, I I'm a craftsman, not an artist. George Lucas has that almost an artist. George Lucas has that almost an artist. George Lucas has that almost exact same line in his biography that's exact same line in his biography that's exact same line in his biography that's written by Brian Jane Jones, which I written by Brian Jane Jones, which I written by Brian Jane Jones, which I think the book is called George Lucas think the book is called George Lucas think the book is called George Lucas Life. you know, he he says that I don't Life. you know, he he says that I don't Life. you know, he he says that I don't make a work of art, I make a movie. I make a work of art, I make a movie. I make a work of art, I make a movie. I don't I'm not an artist. I'm a don't I'm not an artist. I'm a don't I'm not an artist. I'm a craftsman. So, you see that Christopher craftsman. So, you see that Christopher craftsman. So, you see that Christopher Nolan arrived at the same conclusion Nolan arrived at the same conclusion Nolan arrived at the same conclusion that that uh George Lucas does. And then that that uh George Lucas does. And then that that uh George Lucas does. And then there's just some oneliners that he's there's just some oneliners that he's there's just some oneliners that he's got a very unique personality. It's got a very unique personality. It's got a very unique personality. It's almost like, you know, I've watched almost like, you know, I've watched almost like, you know, I've watched every single one of his movies. I get to every single one of his movies. I get to every single one of his movies. I get to the end of Tenant. I've watched the end of Tenant. I've watched the end of Tenant. I've watched Inception, you know, I don't know, six Inception, you know, I don't know, six Inception, you know, I don't know, six times. I still don't completely times. I still don't completely times. I still don't completely understand it. And I think that Nolan's understand it. And I think that Nolan's understand it. And I think that Nolan's very comfortable with ambiguity. He he very comfortable with ambiguity. He he very comfortable with ambiguity. He he thinks that there's much more to the thinks that there's much more to the thinks that there's much more to the world than meets the eye. That the world world than meets the eye. That the world world than meets the eye. That the world is, you know, beyond our comprehension. is, you know, beyond our comprehension. is, you know, beyond our comprehension. And so there's just some lines in And so there's just some lines in And so there's just some lines in throughout the book that I just think throughout the book that I just think throughout the book that I just think make you think and kind of give you an make you think and kind of give you an make you think and kind of give you an insight to this unique individual that insight to this unique individual that insight to this unique individual that we're dealing with. And it says he we're dealing with. And it says he we're dealing with. And it says he dreams with his eyes open. Before we get dreams with his eyes open. Before we get dreams with his eyes open. Before we get back into this, I want to tell you about back into this, I want to tell you about back into this, I want to tell you about the presenting sponsor of this podcast, the presenting sponsor of this podcast, the presenting sponsor of this podcast, Ramp. I have been reading a lot about Ramp. I have been reading a lot about Ramp. I have been reading a lot about SpaceX lately. SpaceX is one of the most SpaceX lately. SpaceX is one of the most SpaceX lately. 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And one thing that their expenses by 5%. And one thing that their expenses by 5%. And one thing that SpaceX has demonstrated is that a SpaceX has demonstrated is that a SpaceX has demonstrated is that a religious dedication to controlling your religious dedication to controlling your religious dedication to controlling your cost helps increase revenue because you cost helps increase revenue because you cost helps increase revenue because you can pursue opportunities you couldn't can pursue opportunities you couldn't can pursue opportunities you couldn't otherwise. And we see that in the RAMP otherwise. And we see that in the RAMP otherwise. And we see that in the RAMP data, too. The median company running on data, too. The median company running on data, too. The median company running on ramp also grows their revenue by 16%. ramp also grows their revenue by 16%. ramp also grows their revenue by 16%. So, when you're running your business on So, when you're running your business on So, when you're running your business on ramp and your competitors are not, you ramp and your competitors are not, you ramp and your competitors are not, you have a massive competitive advantage have a massive competitive advantage have a massive competitive advantage that compounds over time. Ramp is the that compounds over time. Ramp is the that compounds over time. Ramp is the only platform designed to make your only platform designed to make your only platform designed to make your finance team faster and happier. Many of finance team faster and happier. Many of finance team faster and happier. Many of the top founders and CEOs that I know the top founders and CEOs that I know the top founders and CEOs that I know run their business on RAM. I run my run their business on RAM. I run my run their business on RAM. I run my business on Ramp and you should too. Go business on Ramp and you should too. Go business on Ramp and you should too. Go to ramp.com today to learn how they can to ramp.com today to learn how they can to ramp.com today to learn how they can help your business save time, save help your business save time, save help your business save time, save money, and grow revenue. That is money, and grow revenue. That is money, and grow revenue. That is ramp.com. ramp.com. ramp.com. And so then he talks about throughout And so then he talks about throughout And so then he talks about throughout the book as he's being interviewed, the book as he's being interviewed, the book as he's being interviewed, he'll use the word fascinating a lot. He he'll use the word fascinating a lot. He he'll use the word fascinating a lot. He says, "I'm fascinated by this. I'm says, "I'm fascinated by this. I'm says, "I'm fascinated by this. I'm fascinated by this." And could be art. fascinated by this." And could be art. fascinated by this." And could be art. It could be like literally a piece of It could be like literally a piece of It could be like literally a piece of art. Could be a short story. It could be art. Could be a short story. It could be art. Could be a short story. It could be a piece of architecture. It could be an a piece of architecture. It could be an a piece of architecture. It could be an idea. It could be a sentence. And what idea. It could be a sentence. And what idea. It could be a sentence. And what Tom realized is talking uh to Tom realized is talking uh to Tom realized is talking uh to Christopher Nolan is everything he's Christopher Nolan is everything he's Christopher Nolan is everything he's fascinated goes back to his craft. It's fascinated goes back to his craft. It's fascinated goes back to his craft. It's almost like he's using the world as a almost like he's using the world as a almost like he's using the world as a classroom. So it says all roads lead classroom. So it says all roads lead classroom. So it says all roads lead back to the original fascination cinema back to the original fascination cinema back to the original fascination cinema itself. And again, this is something itself. And again, this is something itself. And again, this is something that's going to come up with the book that's going to come up with the book that's going to come up with the book because he starts making like little because he starts making like little because he starts making like little home movies when he's like 8 years old. home movies when he's like 8 years old. home movies when he's like 8 years old. So this idea of that true interest is re So this idea of that true interest is re So this idea of that true interest is re is revealed early. He's been obsessed by is revealed early. He's been obsessed by is revealed early. He's been obsessed by the time this book is published. He's the time this book is published. He's the time this book is published. He's been obsessed with movies for as long as been obsessed with movies for as long as been obsessed with movies for as long as he's had memories. Um there is one thing he's had memories. Um there is one thing he's had memories. Um there is one thing that I think is super important because that I think is super important because that I think is super important because he talks about he takes these he talks about he takes these he talks about he takes these inspirations we'll talk about this later inspirations we'll talk about this later inspirations we'll talk about this later on but he takes these inspirations from on but he takes these inspirations from on but he takes these inspirations from you know he'll read a short story or you know he'll read a short story or you know he'll read a short story or he'll watch another movie or he'll have he'll watch another movie or he'll have he'll watch another movie or he'll have an experience or he'll go for a walk or an experience or he'll go for a walk or an experience or he'll go for a walk or he'll sit in the dark with his eyes he'll sit in the dark with his eyes he'll sit in the dark with his eyes closed and he's just giving his his closed and he's just giving his his closed and he's just giving his his brain space to think and to work and brain space to think and to work and brain space to think and to work and then he takes all the calculations the then he takes all the calculations the then he takes all the calculations the computations of his own brain and computations of his own brain and computations of his own brain and applies it to his work. And so in applies it to his work. And so in applies it to his work. And so in inception, my favorite line inception is inception, my favorite line inception is inception, my favorite line inception is this. And I think this is really large this. And I think this is really large this. And I think this is really large part of what you and I are doing part of what you and I are doing part of what you and I are doing together every week where you know you together every week where you know you together every week where you know you I've done I don't know 426 of these was I've done I don't know 426 of these was I've done I don't know 426 of these was that thousand hours at least a decade of that thousand hours at least a decade of that thousand hours at least a decade of doing this. And I think what we're doing this. And I think what we're doing this. And I think what we're looking for is we're just looking for looking for is we're just looking for looking for is we're just looking for ideas. And I think the reason this works ideas. And I think the reason this works ideas. And I think the reason this works whether you read these biographies whether you read these biographies whether you read these biographies yourself, you listen to the podcast, yourself, you listen to the podcast, yourself, you listen to the podcast, what you're looking for is this idea what you're looking for is this idea what you're looking for is this idea that you can make your own. Why is that that you can make your own. Why is that that you can make your own. Why is that important? Because if you think about important? Because if you think about important? Because if you think about the movie Inception, the character of the movie Inception, the character of the movie Inception, the character of Leonardo DiCaprio is saying this uh to Leonardo DiCaprio is saying this uh to Leonardo DiCaprio is saying this uh to another character. He says, "What is the another character. He says, "What is the another character. He says, "What is the most resilient parasite?" Uh bacteria, a most resilient parasite?" Uh bacteria, a most resilient parasite?" Uh bacteria, a virus, an intestinal worm. It's an idea. virus, an intestinal worm. It's an idea. virus, an intestinal worm. It's an idea. Resilient, highly contagious. And once Resilient, highly contagious. And once Resilient, highly contagious. And once an idea has taken hold of the brain, an idea has taken hold of the brain, an idea has taken hold of the brain, it's almost impossible to eradicate. And it's almost impossible to eradicate. And it's almost impossible to eradicate. And if you've seen that movie, you know that if you've seen that movie, you know that if you've seen that movie, you know that can't be an idea that somebody else gave can't be an idea that somebody else gave can't be an idea that somebody else gave you. Can't be said, you should believe you. Can't be said, you should believe you. Can't be said, you should believe X, Y, and Z. You've got to do the mental X, Y, and Z. You've got to do the mental X, Y, and Z. You've got to do the mental calculus yourself. and then you take calculus yourself. and then you take calculus yourself. and then you take ownership of the idea. If you've seen ownership of the idea. If you've seen ownership of the idea. If you've seen Inception, you know exactly how they do Inception, you know exactly how they do Inception, you know exactly how they do that uh with what they're trying the that uh with what they're trying the that uh with what they're trying the main goal of what they're trying to main goal of what they're trying to main goal of what they're trying to accomplish uh in the movie. So, I want accomplish uh in the movie. So, I want accomplish uh in the movie. So, I want to touch on most of this is really how to touch on most of this is really how to touch on most of this is really how Christopher Nolan thinks about work, Christopher Nolan thinks about work, Christopher Nolan thinks about work, which I think is applicable to, you which I think is applicable to, you which I think is applicable to, you know, all the businesses that you and I know, all the businesses that you and I know, all the businesses that you and I are building. But, I do want to give you are building. But, I do want to give you are building. But, I do want to give you some of this these biographical details some of this these biographical details some of this these biographical details cuz I think it's really important. And cuz I think it's really important. And cuz I think it's really important. And the first thing I want to tell you is the first thing I want to tell you is the first thing I want to tell you is the fact that when he was 7 years old, the fact that when he was 7 years old, the fact that when he was 7 years old, he's inspired by the work of George he's inspired by the work of George he's inspired by the work of George Lucas. Nolan remember seeing George Lucas. Nolan remember seeing George Lucas. Nolan remember seeing George Lucas Star Wars upon its release in Lucas Star Wars upon its release in Lucas Star Wars upon its release in 1977. He was seven years old. I was the 1977. He was seven years old. I was the 1977. He was seven years old. I was the kid who saw it the most times. I had a kid who saw it the most times. I had a kid who saw it the most times. I had a real fascination with those films and real fascination with those films and real fascination with those films and with the technology behind them. I with the technology behind them. I with the technology behind them. I remember I had a magazine about remember I had a magazine about remember I had a magazine about Industrial Light and Magic that I read Industrial Light and Magic that I read Industrial Light and Magic that I read obsessively. Anything about the behind obsessively. Anything about the behind obsessively. Anything about the behind the scenes and how they made those films the scenes and how they made those films the scenes and how they made those films were fascinating to me. So this is again were fascinating to me. So this is again were fascinating to me. So this is again he's seven in the next page. He's eight. he's seven in the next page. He's eight. he's seven in the next page. He's eight. He's going to start making movies. But He's going to start making movies. But He's going to start making movies. But this is something that he does his whole this is something that he does his whole this is something that he does his whole life when he gets obsessed with life when he gets obsessed with life when he gets obsessed with something he will watch it over and over something he will watch it over and over something he will watch it over and over again. He will read it over and over again. He will read it over and over again. He will read it over and over again. He will look at it over and over again. He will look at it over and over again. He will look at it over and over again. And then he will read everything again. And then he will read everything again. And then he will read everything that he can get his hands on because that he can get his hands on because that he can get his hands on because what he's seeking and what I would say what he's seeking and what I would say what he's seeking and what I would say he's obsessed with he's he's obsessed he's obsessed with he's he's obsessed he's obsessed with he's he's obsessed with how the movies are made. And I I I with how the movies are made. And I I I with how the movies are made. And I I I went back and listened to the first went back and listened to the first went back and listened to the first Christopher Nolan episode I did and then Christopher Nolan episode I did and then Christopher Nolan episode I did and then reread all the highlights and I just reread all the highlights and I just reread all the highlights and I just jotted down some notes to myself and one jotted down some notes to myself and one jotted down some notes to myself and one of the notes I I left myself was oh like of the notes I I left myself was oh like of the notes I I left myself was oh like this guy's obsessed with understanding. this guy's obsessed with understanding. this guy's obsessed with understanding. That is what he's trying to figure out. That is what he's trying to figure out. That is what he's trying to figure out. He's trying to understand. He deep he He's trying to understand. He deep he He's trying to understand. He deep he has a deep desire to understand. So when has a deep desire to understand. So when has a deep desire to understand. So when he turns eight, his dad gives him these he turns eight, his dad gives him these he turns eight, his dad gives him these like little Super Eight cameras. And so like little Super Eight cameras. And so like little Super Eight cameras. And so his first version of a movie is going to his first version of a movie is going to his first version of a movie is going to play on the Super 8 camera. Super eight play on the Super 8 camera. Super eight play on the Super 8 camera. Super eight camera only holds they can record for camera only holds they can record for camera only holds they can record for like two and a half minutes if I'm not like two and a half minutes if I'm not like two and a half minutes if I'm not mistaken. It might have been in black mistaken. It might have been in black mistaken. It might have been in black and white and it definitely had no and white and it definitely had no and white and it definitely had no sound. Now at 13. Okay, so he knows he sound. Now at 13. Okay, so he knows he sound. Now at 13. Okay, so he knows he he liked making films. He didn't know he liked making films. He didn't know he liked making films. He didn't know what the job was. So you're just a kid, what the job was. So you're just a kid, what the job was. So you're just a kid, right? But at 13, with Ridley Scott's right? But at 13, with Ridley Scott's right? But at 13, with Ridley Scott's help, Nolan is going to find his life's help, Nolan is going to find his life's help, Nolan is going to find his life's work. So Nolan starts watching a bunch work. So Nolan starts watching a bunch work. So Nolan starts watching a bunch of movies and two of the movies that he of movies and two of the movies that he of movies and two of the movies that he loved were Bladeunner and Alien and he loved were Bladeunner and Alien and he loved were Bladeunner and Alien and he then discovers after the fact that he then discovers after the fact that he then discovers after the fact that he winds up being shocked. He's like, "Oh, winds up being shocked. He's like, "Oh, winds up being shocked. He's like, "Oh, wait. What these two things have in wait. What these two things have in wait. What these two things have in common, even though they're vastly common, even though they're vastly common, even though they're vastly different, is the same person made them. different, is the same person made them. different, is the same person made them. What is that person? What job is that? I What is that person? What job is that? I What is that person? What job is that? I want that job." So he says, uh, the want that job." So he says, uh, the want that job." So he says, uh, the direct direct quote from Nolan here. direct direct quote from Nolan here. direct direct quote from Nolan here. Then when I found out it was the same Then when I found out it was the same Then when I found out it was the same director. Wow. So totally different director. Wow. So totally different director. Wow. So totally different story, different writers, different story, different writers, different story, different writers, different actors, different everything. All the actors, different everything. All the actors, different everything. All the things that as a kid you identify as things that as a kid you identify as things that as a kid you identify as making films what they are, all those making films what they are, all those making films what they are, all those things are different, but there's a things are different, but there's a things are different, but there's a connection and that connection is the connection and that connection is the connection and that connection is the director. I can remember thinking that's director. I can remember thinking that's director. I can remember thinking that's the job I want. And so his family, so the job I want. And so his family, so the job I want. And so his family, so his dad is from England, his mother is his dad is from England, his mother is his dad is from England, his mother is American. They're going to move back and American. They're going to move back and American. They're going to move back and forth across the Atlantic quite a bit. forth across the Atlantic quite a bit. forth across the Atlantic quite a bit. And they actually send him to this And they actually send him to this And they actually send him to this boarding school and it's called Haley boarding school and it's called Haley boarding school and it's called Haley Bur. And this is really important Bur. And this is really important Bur. And this is really important because we talked at the very beginning because we talked at the very beginning because we talked at the very beginning the fact that he runs a very strict the fact that he runs a very strict the fact that he runs a very strict schedule. He likes to do all the work schedule. He likes to do all the work schedule. He likes to do all the work himself. He's accustomed himself to himself. He's accustomed himself to himself. He's accustomed himself to handling a large workload. He's kind of handling a large workload. He's kind of handling a large workload. He's kind of indifferent to, you know, problems. He's indifferent to, you know, problems. He's indifferent to, you know, problems. He's indifferent to heat, to cold. He has indifferent to heat, to cold. He has indifferent to heat, to cold. He has this like very strong discipline and a this like very strong discipline and a this like very strong discipline and a high pain tolerance. He learned that at high pain tolerance. He learned that at high pain tolerance. He learned that at this boarding school. O says this is this boarding school. O says this is this boarding school. O says this is what they used to say about the boarding what they used to say about the boarding what they used to say about the boarding school they went to that if you could school they went to that if you could school they went to that if you could survive your first two years there you survive your first two years there you survive your first two years there you can survive anything. It was a Spartan can survive anything. It was a Spartan can survive anything. It was a Spartan oldfashioned institution. Then oldfashioned institution. Then oldfashioned institution. Then Christopher Nolan says I remember Steven Christopher Nolan says I remember Steven Christopher Nolan says I remember Steven Fry being asked about jail in an Fry being asked about jail in an Fry being asked about jail in an interview and him saying oh I went to interview and him saying oh I went to interview and him saying oh I went to boarding school. It's not so bad. boarding school. It's not so bad. boarding school. It's not so bad. Meaning jail is not so bad. That was not Meaning jail is not so bad. That was not Meaning jail is not so bad. That was not my experience. I enjoyed it but I also my experience. I enjoyed it but I also my experience. I enjoyed it but I also recognized that a lot of people didn't. recognized that a lot of people didn't. recognized that a lot of people didn't. I always referred to boarding schools as I always referred to boarding schools as I always referred to boarding schools as a Darwinian environment. It is sink or a Darwinian environment. It is sink or a Darwinian environment. It is sink or swim. It was very militaristic. You swim. It was very militaristic. You swim. It was very militaristic. You either roll with it or you absolutely either roll with it or you absolutely either roll with it or you absolutely hate it. Life at the school was lived hate it. Life at the school was lived hate it. Life at the school was lived under the clock in every sense. Every under the clock in every sense. Every under the clock in every sense. Every minute of every day rigorously minute of every day rigorously minute of every day rigorously timelabeled. Now they keep them busy timelabeled. Now they keep them busy timelabeled. Now they keep them busy from the time they wake up. By the time from the time they wake up. By the time from the time they wake up. By the time they go to bed around 9:00 says by the they go to bed around 9:00 says by the they go to bed around 9:00 says by the end of the day, everybody's just too end of the day, everybody's just too end of the day, everybody's just too tired. All they can do is just fall into tired. All they can do is just fall into tired. All they can do is just fall into their bed exhausted. Now this is what their bed exhausted. Now this is what their bed exhausted. Now this is what obsession looks like. Nolan is going to obsession looks like. Nolan is going to obsession looks like. Nolan is going to be sitting in the dark. instead of be sitting in the dark. instead of be sitting in the dark. instead of sleeping, he's going to be listening to sleeping, he's going to be listening to sleeping, he's going to be listening to scores and soundtracks from movies in scores and soundtracks from movies in scores and soundtracks from movies in the dark and just thinking and and the dark and just thinking and and the dark and just thinking and and tapping into his imagination. So, it tapping into his imagination. So, it tapping into his imagination. So, it says no one remembers lying in bed after says no one remembers lying in bed after says no one remembers lying in bed after lights out listening to the soundtracks lights out listening to the soundtracks lights out listening to the soundtracks of Star Wars, the movie 2001, or of Star Wars, the movie 2001, or of Star Wars, the movie 2001, or Chariots of Fire on his Walkman. This is Chariots of Fire on his Walkman. This is Chariots of Fire on his Walkman. This is what he says. Film scores leave a bit of what he says. Film scores leave a bit of what he says. Film scores leave a bit of space for the pictures and for your space for the pictures and for your space for the pictures and for your imagination. He used the word imagination. He used the word imagination. He used the word imagination over and over again. It gave imagination over and over again. It gave imagination over and over again. It gave me a bit more space to think. That's me a bit more space to think. That's me a bit more space to think. That's something he also repeats. More like something he also repeats. More like something he also repeats. More like ambient music, I suppose. I certainly ambient music, I suppose. I certainly ambient music, I suppose. I certainly prized the imaginative space of prized the imaginative space of prized the imaginative space of listening to music in the dark, thinking listening to music in the dark, thinking listening to music in the dark, thinking about things, imagining things, films, about things, imagining things, films, about things, imagining things, films, stories. That was very important to me. stories. That was very important to me. stories. That was very important to me. This idea of people just laying down This idea of people just laying down This idea of people just laying down either in the dark. So I think Jim either in the dark. So I think Jim either in the dark. So I think Jim Simons, founder of Renaissance Simons, founder of Renaissance Simons, founder of Renaissance Technologies. I stole this idea. I think Technologies. I stole this idea. I think Technologies. I stole this idea. I think the first time I read about Jim was like the first time I read about Jim was like the first time I read about Jim was like all the way back on episode 80. So this all the way back on episode 80. So this all the way back on episode 80. So this probably like seven years ago. And probably like seven years ago. And probably like seven years ago. And people would go into his office and people would go into his office and people would go into his office and they'd see him, the lights would be off. they'd see him, the lights would be off. they'd see him, the lights would be off. He'd be lying on like prone on his sofa. He'd be lying on like prone on his sofa. He'd be lying on like prone on his sofa. They thought he was taking a nap. He's They thought he was taking a nap. He's They thought he was taking a nap. He's like, "No, I'm not taking a nap. I'm like, "No, I'm not taking a nap. I'm like, "No, I'm not taking a nap. I'm thinking." So, no noise, no light, no he thinking." So, no noise, no light, no he thinking." So, no noise, no light, no he can't see anything. And he just lets his can't see anything. And he just lets his can't see anything. And he just lets his mind try to chew on the problem uh that mind try to chew on the problem uh that mind try to chew on the problem uh that that like that he's trying to solve. that like that he's trying to solve. that like that he's trying to solve. There's a great uh there's a great There's a great uh there's a great There's a great uh there's a great anecdote and a great story from the anecdote and a great story from the anecdote and a great story from the early days of Bill Gates career when he early days of Bill Gates career when he early days of Bill Gates career when he was building Microsoft. This journalist was building Microsoft. This journalist was building Microsoft. This journalist gets in the car with him and they're gets in the car with him and they're gets in the car with him and they're like, "Oh my god, somebody broke into like, "Oh my god, somebody broke into like, "Oh my god, somebody broke into your car, Bill, and stole your car your car, Bill, and stole your car your car, Bill, and stole your car radio." And Bill's like, "What are you radio." And Bill's like, "What are you radio." And Bill's like, "What are you talking about?" He's like, "You don't talking about?" He's like, "You don't talking about?" He's like, "You don't have a car radio?" "Oh, he's like, have a car radio?" "Oh, he's like, have a car radio?" "Oh, he's like, "Yeah, I removed one on purpose." And he "Yeah, I removed one on purpose." And he "Yeah, I removed one on purpose." And he does. in in a typically geeky way. He he does. in in a typically geeky way. He he does. in in a typically geeky way. He he figured out was okay the from the office figured out was okay the from the office figured out was okay the from the office from my house to the office is eight from my house to the office is eight from my house to the office is eight minutes and from the office to the minutes and from the office to the minutes and from the office to the airport's you know 15 minutes and I go airport's you know 15 minutes and I go airport's you know 15 minutes and I go home you know this many times a week and home you know this many times a week and home you know this many times a week and I go to the airport this many times a I go to the airport this many times a I go to the airport this many times a week and so basically it's just like oh week and so basically it's just like oh week and so basically it's just like oh I took it out because then I save you I took it out because then I save you I took it out because then I save you know whatever 120 minutes a week instead know whatever 120 minutes a week instead know whatever 120 minutes a week instead of listening to music I can be thinking of listening to music I can be thinking of listening to music I can be thinking about Microsoft so this idea I think is about Microsoft so this idea I think is about Microsoft so this idea I think is really important that uh Nolan will really important that uh Nolan will really important that uh Nolan will repeat he's like you have to give your repeat he's like you have to give your repeat he's like you have to give your brain space to think now there's another brain space to think now there's another brain space to think now there's another thing where where he talks about his thing where where he talks about his thing where where he talks about his fascinations over and over again. Again, fascinations over and over again. Again, fascinations over and over again. Again, a lot some of this is like almost like a lot some of this is like almost like a lot some of this is like almost like put ideas into your head and then maybe put ideas into your head and then maybe put ideas into your head and then maybe your subconscious does something with it your subconscious does something with it your subconscious does something with it later. Maybe feed your intuition or later. Maybe feed your intuition or later. Maybe feed your intuition or something. But he is fascinated something. But he is fascinated something. But he is fascinated interesting that he became a filmmaker interesting that he became a filmmaker interesting that he became a filmmaker because he's fascinated with the fact because he's fascinated with the fact because he's fascinated with the fact that cameras can see time in ways we that cameras can see time in ways we that cameras can see time in ways we cannot. So just think about his the cannot. So just think about his the cannot. So just think about his the movies in this nonlinear structure and movies in this nonlinear structure and movies in this nonlinear structure and the way he he explains uh presents the the way he he explains uh presents the the way he he explains uh presents the plot in his movies. the fact that he is plot in his movies. the fact that he is plot in his movies. the fact that he is obsessed with seeing time in a way that obsessed with seeing time in a way that obsessed with seeing time in a way that we cannot. So he says there's no other we cannot. So he says there's no other we cannot. So he says there's no other way to conceive of this. The camera sees way to conceive of this. The camera sees way to conceive of this. The camera sees time in a way that we can't. That's the time in a way that we can't. That's the time in a way that we can't. That's the essence of it. That for me was the essence of it. That for me was the essence of it. That for me was the magical thing. It's about that magical thing. It's about that magical thing. It's about that fascination. He goes, he talks about fascination. He goes, he talks about fascination. He goes, he talks about time over and over again. Time is time over and over again. Time is time over and over again. Time is something that we can't really something that we can't really something that we can't really understand, but we can feel it. We have understand, but we can feel it. We have understand, but we can feel it. We have a very strong sense of time. It affects a very strong sense of time. It affects a very strong sense of time. It affects us greatly, but we don't know what it us greatly, but we don't know what it us greatly, but we don't know what it is. We have clocks and watches, but time is. We have clocks and watches, but time is. We have clocks and watches, but time is inherently subjective. So then he is inherently subjective. So then he is inherently subjective. So then he goes back to the fact that the goes back to the fact that the goes back to the fact that the discipline that he learned as a very discipline that he learned as a very discipline that he learned as a very young man in high school age uh of the young man in high school age uh of the young man in high school age uh of the from the boarding school winds up being from the boarding school winds up being from the boarding school winds up being a godsend. So it says it was at this a godsend. So it says it was at this a godsend. So it says it was at this boarding school that he acquired the boarding school that he acquired the boarding school that he acquired the punctuality, discipline and indifference punctuality, discipline and indifference punctuality, discipline and indifference to cold weather for which he would be to cold weather for which he would be to cold weather for which he would be famous among his film crews for. Now famous among his film crews for. Now famous among his film crews for. Now he's also used to being different and he's also used to being different and he's also used to being different and separate and making his own decisions. separate and making his own decisions. separate and making his own decisions. Part of this is because he he says Part of this is because he he says Part of this is because he he says there's like kind of this paradox where there's like kind of this paradox where there's like kind of this paradox where okay his family left him in England. okay his family left him in England. okay his family left him in England. They live in Chicago at the time. He's They live in Chicago at the time. He's They live in Chicago at the time. He's like 4,000 miles away from his parents. like 4,000 miles away from his parents. like 4,000 miles away from his parents. So he's like, you have the freedom that So he's like, you have the freedom that So he's like, you have the freedom that you're kind of on your own as a young you're kind of on your own as a young you're kind of on your own as a young man, but then you have this like rigid man, but then you have this like rigid man, but then you have this like rigid discipline almost like constraints put discipline almost like constraints put discipline almost like constraints put around you that you have to operate in. around you that you have to operate in. around you that you have to operate in. So you're at time way more free than So you're at time way more free than So you're at time way more free than like a typical, let's say, 16-year-old, like a typical, let's say, 16-year-old, like a typical, let's say, 16-year-old, but also way more strict and disciplined but also way more strict and disciplined but also way more strict and disciplined environment. And then all this time of environment. And then all this time of environment. And then all this time of being alone is really interesting. So being alone is really interesting. So being alone is really interesting. So this this is pretty crazy cuz I think this this is pretty crazy cuz I think this this is pretty crazy cuz I think before Dunkerk came out, I would say before Dunkerk came out, I would say before Dunkerk came out, I would say Inception is probably my favorite uh Inception is probably my favorite uh Inception is probably my favorite uh Christopher Nolan movie, but he worked Christopher Nolan movie, but he worked Christopher Nolan movie, but he worked he had the ideas. So from the the the he had the ideas. So from the the the he had the ideas. So from the the the coming up with the idea for Inception to coming up with the idea for Inception to coming up with the idea for Inception to actually doing it something like 23 actually doing it something like 23 actually doing it something like 23 years in between that gap. And so he was years in between that gap. And so he was years in between that gap. And so he was talking about when he's in these talking about when he's in these talking about when he's in these sessions at night, he first comes up sessions at night, he first comes up sessions at night, he first comes up with this idea of like, oh, like what with this idea of like, oh, like what with this idea of like, oh, like what about this idea of playing music or a about this idea of playing music or a about this idea of playing music or a dream within a dream? And so he says it dream within a dream? And so he says it dream within a dream? And so he says it was during one of these late night was during one of these late night was during one of these late night sessions after lights out that the idea sessions after lights out that the idea sessions after lights out that the idea for inception first took shape and he for inception first took shape and he for inception first took shape and he talk he describes it. He says the idea talk he describes it. He says the idea talk he describes it. He says the idea of sharing a dream that was a jumping of sharing a dream that was a jumping of sharing a dream that was a jumping off point and the use of music or off point and the use of music or off point and the use of music or playing music outside someone dreaming playing music outside someone dreaming playing music outside someone dreaming and the idea that if you played music to and the idea that if you played music to and the idea that if you played music to somebody who was asleep that it would somebody who was asleep that it would somebody who was asleep that it would translate in some interesting way. I translate in some interesting way. I translate in some interesting way. I really did come up with a couple ideas really did come up with a couple ideas really did come up with a couple ideas that went into it inception when I was that went into it inception when I was that went into it inception when I was about 16. The film was a very long time about 16. The film was a very long time about 16. The film was a very long time in coming. I said it was 10 years. It in coming. I said it was 10 years. It in coming. I said it was 10 years. It was probably more like 20. It was was probably more like 20. It was was probably more like 20. It was something I was thinking about for a something I was thinking about for a something I was thinking about for a very very long time. I mean, I think it very very long time. I mean, I think it very very long time. I mean, I think it was what uh I know I've been talking was what uh I know I've been talking was what uh I know I've been talking about Edwin Land a lot. I gotta do about Edwin Land a lot. I gotta do about Edwin Land a lot. I gotta do another episode on him, I guess. But I another episode on him, I guess. But I another episode on him, I guess. But I think he came up with the idea for the think he came up with the idea for the think he came up with the idea for the instant photography camera somewhere in instant photography camera somewhere in instant photography camera somewhere in the 1946. And by the time it was fully the 1946. And by the time it was fully the 1946. And by the time it was fully finished and it was the size he wanted finished and it was the size he wanted finished and it was the size he wanted and it could do color, I think it was and it could do color, I think it was and it could do color, I think it was like 1973. So, it's like 30 years of like 1973. So, it's like 30 years of like 1973. So, it's like 30 years of working on the same idea. Go back to working on the same idea. Go back to working on the same idea. Go back to Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs would talk about Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs would talk about Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs would talk about in the 1980s about having a handheld in the 1980s about having a handheld in the 1980s about having a handheld computer and when you read about what computer and when you read about what computer and when you read about what he's imagining and what he's envisioning he's imagining and what he's envisioning he's imagining and what he's envisioning that he could accomplish one day in the that he could accomplish one day in the that he could accomplish one day in the 1980s remember I think the iPad came out 1980s remember I think the iPad came out 1980s remember I think the iPad came out what 2009 something like that uh sounds what 2009 something like that uh sounds what 2009 something like that uh sounds hell of a lot like an iPad 40 years hell of a lot like an iPad 40 years hell of a lot like an iPad 40 years before there were iPads iPads. So I just before there were iPads iPads. So I just before there were iPads iPads. So I just love this idea of the find the idea that love this idea of the find the idea that love this idea of the find the idea that ideas can just like sit in your mind and ideas can just like sit in your mind and ideas can just like sit in your mind and you just have to kind of you just wait. you just have to kind of you just wait. you just have to kind of you just wait. You don't know how to make the thing You don't know how to make the thing You don't know how to make the thing yet, but you can use the ideas you have yet, but you can use the ideas you have yet, but you can use the ideas you have today 15, 20, 30 years from now. So, at today 15, 20, 30 years from now. So, at today 15, 20, 30 years from now. So, at this point in the story, now Nolan is in this point in the story, now Nolan is in this point in the story, now Nolan is in college, going to college. He kind of college, going to college. He kind of college, going to college. He kind of doesn't even go to college. He is the doesn't even go to college. He is the doesn't even go to college. He is the president of the film and TV society. president of the film and TV society. president of the film and TV society. Okay? And he spends much of the time Okay? And he spends much of the time Okay? And he spends much of the time that he's supposed to be in college in that he's supposed to be in college in that he's supposed to be in college in this windowless soundproof basement. this windowless soundproof basement. this windowless soundproof basement. They said it was essentially his office. They said it was essentially his office. They said it was essentially his office. And what is he doing at when he's at the And what is he doing at when he's at the And what is he doing at when he's at the University of College uh College London? University of College uh College London? University of College uh College London? He essentially creates his own He essentially creates his own He essentially creates his own curriculum. He spent most of his time in curriculum. He spent most of his time in curriculum. He spent most of his time in the film and TV society and he's the film and TV society and he's the film and TV society and he's practicing learning the job that he practicing learning the job that he practicing learning the job that he already knew that he wanted. What's the already knew that he wanted. What's the already knew that he wanted. What's the point of me going and taking these other point of me going and taking these other point of me going and taking these other classes very seriously? He there was classes very seriously? He there was classes very seriously? He there was this great discussion in the book where this great discussion in the book where this great discussion in the book where one of his prof I think it's the one of his prof I think it's the one of his prof I think it's the literature professor is like, "Hey, I literature professor is like, "Hey, I literature professor is like, "Hey, I can see obsessed with with movies. What can see obsessed with with movies. What can see obsessed with with movies. What I need you to do is that same obsession I need you to do is that same obsession I need you to do is that same obsession that you have for movies. I need you to that you have for movies. I need you to that you have for movies. I need you to have that same obsession for the books." have that same obsession for the books." have that same obsession for the books." And no one's like, "I just know that And no one's like, "I just know that And no one's like, "I just know that will never happen." So he knew the job will never happen." So he knew the job will never happen." So he knew the job what he already wanted. And so he's what he already wanted. And so he's what he already wanted. And so he's like, I'm just going to build my own like, I'm just going to build my own like, I'm just going to build my own curriculum and use this time, make the curriculum and use this time, make the curriculum and use this time, make the most use of my time, and actually learn most use of my time, and actually learn most use of my time, and actually learn how the hell do I make a movie. So he how the hell do I make a movie. So he how the hell do I make a movie. So he said he did spend most of his time in said he did spend most of his time in said he did spend most of his time in the basement of the film and TV society, the basement of the film and TV society, the basement of the film and TV society, learning firsthand how to operate learning firsthand how to operate learning firsthand how to operate cameras, how to edit, how to cut film by cameras, how to edit, how to cut film by cameras, how to edit, how to cut film by hand, and how to sync sound. We spent hand, and how to sync sound. We spent hand, and how to sync sound. We spent three years in college making short three years in college making short three years in college making short films, running the film society, raising films, running the film society, raising films, running the film society, raising money to make more films. It was money to make more films. It was money to make more films. It was studentled. I learned a huge amount studentled. I learned a huge amount studentled. I learned a huge amount about the craft of putting films about the craft of putting films about the craft of putting films together. It was a great education. And together. It was a great education. And together. It was a great education. And before we get back into this, I want to before we get back into this, I want to before we get back into this, I want to tell you about Applov. And one of my tell you about Applov. And one of my tell you about Applov. And one of my all-time favorite quotes is from the all-time favorite quotes is from the all-time favorite quotes is from the book 0ero to1. In that book, Peter Teal book 0ero to1. In that book, Peter Teal book 0ero to1. In that book, Peter Teal writes, he says, "The single most writes, he says, "The single most writes, he says, "The single most powerful pattern I have noticed is that powerful pattern I have noticed is that powerful pattern I have noticed is that successful people find value in successful people find value in successful people find value in unexpected places. And they do this by unexpected places. And they do this by unexpected places. And they do this by thinking about business from first thinking about business from first thinking about business from first principles instead of formulas." And principles instead of formulas." And principles instead of formulas." And that is exactly what Apploven has done that is exactly what Apploven has done that is exactly what Apploven has done with their advertising platform. with their advertising platform. with their advertising platform. Apploven connects you with over a Apploven connects you with over a Apploven connects you with over a billion potential new customers in billion potential new customers in billion potential new customers in mobile games. Apploven allows you to mobile games. Apploven allows you to mobile games. Apploven allows you to capture undivided attention. Apploven capture undivided attention. Apploven capture undivided attention. Apploven ads are full screen videos that are ads are full screen videos that are ads are full screen videos that are watched for an average of 35 seconds. watched for an average of 35 seconds. watched for an average of 35 seconds. That is retention that blows other ad That is retention that blows other ad That is retention that blows other ad platforms out of the water. And you can platforms out of the water. And you can platforms out of the water. And you can launch on Apploven in minutes. You set launch on Apploven in minutes. You set launch on Apploven in minutes. You set the goal and Apploven achieves it. No the goal and Apploven achieves it. No the goal and Apploven achieves it. No complex setup, no expertise needed. And complex setup, no expertise needed. And complex setup, no expertise needed. And Apploven scales quickly. They can put Apploven scales quickly. They can put Apploven scales quickly. They can put your ads in front of over a billion your ads in front of over a billion your ads in front of over a billion potential customers. Other businesses potential customers. Other businesses potential customers. Other businesses have seen immediate results, scaled to have seen immediate results, scaled to have seen immediate results, scaled to hundreds of thousands of dollars of hundreds of thousands of dollars of hundreds of thousands of dollars of spend per day and increase their revenue spend per day and increase their revenue spend per day and increase their revenue by millions. So, you want to get started by millions. So, you want to get started by millions. So, you want to get started quickly before all of your competitors quickly before all of your competitors quickly before all of your competitors are on Apploven. And you can do that by are on Apploven. And you can do that by are on Apploven. And you can do that by going to apploven.com. going to apploven.com. going to apploven.com. That's apploven.com. That's apploven.com. That's apploven.com. And then I want to tell you about Vanta. And then I want to tell you about Vanta. And then I want to tell you about Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vant helps your Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vant helps your Vanta. Vanta. Vanta. Vant helps your company prove your secure so more company prove your secure so more company prove your secure so more customers will use your product or customers will use your product or customers will use your product or service. Vanta is an AI powered security service. Vanta is an AI powered security service. Vanta is an AI powered security expert that scales with you. The more expert that scales with you. The more expert that scales with you. The more your business grows, the more complex your business grows, the more complex your business grows, the more complex your security needs get. And that your security needs get. And that your security needs get. And that complexity turns into chaos. Vanta tames complexity turns into chaos. Vanta tames complexity turns into chaos. Vanta tames that chaos for you. Vanta automates that chaos for you. Vanta automates that chaos for you. Vanta automates compliance, continuously monitors your compliance, continuously monitors your compliance, continuously monitors your controls, and gives you a single source controls, and gives you a single source controls, and gives you a single source of truth for compliance and risk. So of truth for compliance and risk. So of truth for compliance and risk. 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Automate your a Vanta customer. Automate your compliance, security, and trust with compliance, security, and trust with compliance, security, and trust with Vanta. Vanta will help you win trust, Vanta. Vanta will help you win trust, Vanta. Vanta will help you win trust, close deals, and stay secure faster and close deals, and stay secure faster and close deals, and stay secure faster and with less effort. Go to with less effort. Go to with less effort. Go to vanta.com/founders vanta.com/founders vanta.com/founders and you'll get $1,000 off. That is and you'll get $1,000 off. That is and you'll get $1,000 off. That is vanta.com/founders. vanta.com/founders. vanta.com/founders. And then a few pages later, there's just And then a few pages later, there's just And then a few pages later, there's just one line. Again, I think he's talking one line. Again, I think he's talking one line. Again, I think he's talking about filmmakers. I think the best about filmmakers. I think the best about filmmakers. I think the best founders have this. You have a distinct founders have this. You have a distinct founders have this. You have a distinct point of view. You we talked about last point of view. You we talked about last point of view. You we talked about last week, what is the point of building an week, what is the point of building an week, what is the point of building an undifferiated commodity business? You undifferiated commodity business? You undifferiated commodity business? You should have something unique to say. You should have something unique to say. You should have something unique to say. You should have a new take on the world. And should have a new take on the world. And should have a new take on the world. And so he says, everything you do as a so he says, everything you do as a so he says, everything you do as a filmmaker is about a point of view. I filmmaker is about a point of view. I filmmaker is about a point of view. I think the best founders obviously uh think the best founders obviously uh think the best founders obviously uh have the same thing. I have this sticky have the same thing. I have this sticky have the same thing. I have this sticky note that's on my desk right in front of note that's on my desk right in front of note that's on my desk right in front of me and it's just it's the point of view me and it's just it's the point of view me and it's just it's the point of view of Steve Jobs summarized in three words. of Steve Jobs summarized in three words. of Steve Jobs summarized in three words. Insanely great products. That was his Insanely great products. That was his Insanely great products. That was his point of view. So his first job out of point of view. So his first job out of point of view. So his first job out of college is actually making videos for college is actually making videos for college is actually making videos for large corporations. Says after large corporations. Says after large corporations. Says after graduating, Nolan had applied to and was graduating, Nolan had applied to and was graduating, Nolan had applied to and was turned down by the National Film and turned down by the National Film and turned down by the National Film and Television School in England and the Television School in England and the Television School in England and the Royal College of Art. But he immediately Royal College of Art. But he immediately Royal College of Art. But he immediately found work as a camera operator in a found work as a camera operator in a found work as a camera operator in a small video shop turning out corporate small video shop turning out corporate small video shop turning out corporate videos and media training uh videos for videos and media training uh videos for videos and media training uh videos for large corporations. This is really large corporations. This is really large corporations. This is really important cuz then we start hitting on important cuz then we start hitting on important cuz then we start hitting on the fact that he is going to be the fact that he is going to be the fact that he is going to be relentlessly resourceful. All these relentlessly resourceful. All these relentlessly resourceful. All these ideas I'm discussing with you will fit ideas I'm discussing with you will fit ideas I'm discussing with you will fit together just like the plots in a lot of together just like the plots in a lot of together just like the plots in a lot of his movies. his movies. his movies. The relentless resourcefulness is The relentless resourcefulness is The relentless resourcefulness is because he's going to be obsessed with because he's going to be obsessed with because he's going to be obsessed with control which we'll get to in a minute. control which we'll get to in a minute. control which we'll get to in a minute. But this is what's fascinating. It's But this is what's fascinating. It's But this is what's fascinating. It's like how bad do you actually want it? He like how bad do you actually want it? He like how bad do you actually want it? He made his first movie on the weekends made his first movie on the weekends made his first movie on the weekends while working a full-time job. So he while working a full-time job. So he while working a full-time job. So he says uh the script was written with a says uh the script was written with a says uh the script was written with a view of what can I do with really no view of what can I do with really no view of what can I do with really no resources just with a camera and resources just with a camera and resources just with a camera and scraping together money. He wrote the scraping together money. He wrote the scraping together money. He wrote the script on a typewriter. They decided script on a typewriter. They decided script on a typewriter. They decided simply to use the bonus from his simply to use the bonus from his simply to use the bonus from his cameraman job and shoot the film only on cameraman job and shoot the film only on cameraman job and shoot the film only on weekends for almost a year. They had to weekends for almost a year. They had to weekends for almost a year. They had to rehearse each scene carefully, almost rehearse each scene carefully, almost rehearse each scene carefully, almost like a play, so they could shoot it in like a play, so they could shoot it in like a play, so they could shoot it in one or two takes, working out they could one or two takes, working out they could one or two takes, working out they could afford to shoot and process between 10 afford to shoot and process between 10 afford to shoot and process between 10 to 15 minutes of footage a week. Every to 15 minutes of footage a week. Every to 15 minutes of footage a week. Every weekend, everyone would squeeze into the weekend, everyone would squeeze into the weekend, everyone would squeeze into the back of a taxi and head to whatever back of a taxi and head to whatever back of a taxi and head to whatever location they'd been able to scrge up. location they'd been able to scrge up. location they'd been able to scrge up. They shot without permits. Nolan They shot without permits. Nolan They shot without permits. Nolan operated the camera himself. And so operated the camera himself. And so operated the camera himself. And so again, I just love this idea. It's like again, I just love this idea. It's like again, I just love this idea. It's like relentless resourceful. I have this goal relentless resourceful. I have this goal relentless resourceful. I have this goal that I have. Well, I also need to to to that I have. Well, I also need to to to that I have. Well, I also need to to to eat and I don't have any money, so I'm eat and I don't have any money, so I'm eat and I don't have any money, so I'm going to work during the week and then going to work during the week and then going to work during the week and then at the weekend I'm going to chase my at the weekend I'm going to chase my at the weekend I'm going to chase my dreams and okay, maybe if I was working dreams and okay, maybe if I was working dreams and okay, maybe if I was working on this full-time, I could do this this on this full-time, I could do this this on this full-time, I could do this this movie in two months, but it's going to movie in two months, but it's going to movie in two months, but it's going to take me a year. So, so be it. That's take me a year. So, so be it. That's take me a year. So, so be it. That's what it's going to do. And I love this what it's going to do. And I love this what it's going to do. And I love this idea of um doing it on a typewriter. He idea of um doing it on a typewriter. He idea of um doing it on a typewriter. He again goes back to this analog world. Um again goes back to this analog world. Um again goes back to this analog world. Um one of my favorite um fiction authors is one of my favorite um fiction authors is one of my favorite um fiction authors is Cormack McCarthy. And one of my favorite Cormack McCarthy. And one of my favorite Cormack McCarthy. And one of my favorite facts about one of my favorite fiction facts about one of my favorite fiction facts about one of my favorite fiction authors is the fact that Cormack authors is the fact that Cormack authors is the fact that Cormack McCarthy bought a typewriter for $50. McCarthy bought a typewriter for $50. McCarthy bought a typewriter for $50. He [snorts] used that typewriter for 50 He [snorts] used that typewriter for 50 He [snorts] used that typewriter for 50 years and wrote 5 million words on that years and wrote 5 million words on that years and wrote 5 million words on that typewriter. It's not it's not the tools. typewriter. It's not it's not the tools. typewriter. It's not it's not the tools. It's it's that it's the person, it's the It's it's that it's the person, it's the It's it's that it's the person, it's the talent. And this is what again talent. And this is what again talent. And this is what again Christopher Nolan has a very unique way Christopher Nolan has a very unique way Christopher Nolan has a very unique way of working. But I just love that idea. of working. But I just love that idea. of working. But I just love that idea. It's like think about Blood Meridian if It's like think about Blood Meridian if It's like think about Blood Meridian if you read it or The Road or any of you read it or The Road or any of you read it or The Road or any of Cormack McCarthy's one incredible books Cormack McCarthy's one incredible books Cormack McCarthy's one incredible books that came from hands on a $50 that came from hands on a $50 that came from hands on a $50 typewriter. It's absolutely incredible. typewriter. It's absolutely incredible. typewriter. It's absolutely incredible. So then we get into the fact that he So then we get into the fact that he So then we get into the fact that he goes to time and he had written the goes to time and he had written the goes to time and he had written the original for his first movie. He wrote original for his first movie. He wrote original for his first movie. He wrote that script in chronological order and that script in chronological order and that script in chronological order and then he rearranged the order of the then he rearranged the order of the then he rearranged the order of the scenes. And so he was a fan of Quinton scenes. And so he was a fan of Quinton scenes. And so he was a fan of Quinton Tarantino's time. He says it was heavily Tarantino's time. He says it was heavily Tarantino's time. He says it was heavily influenced by Reserve Dogs. So I was influenced by Reserve Dogs. So I was influenced by Reserve Dogs. So I was very interested to see what Tarantino very interested to see what Tarantino very interested to see what Tarantino had done for his follow-up. And so he had done for his follow-up. And so he had done for his follow-up. And so he says if you look at pulp fiction and says if you look at pulp fiction and says if you look at pulp fiction and citizen can so again anybody gets the citizen can so again anybody gets the citizen can so again anybody gets the top of their profession is going to have top of their profession is going to have top of their profession is going to have this historical database of knowledge in this historical database of knowledge in this historical database of knowledge in their head that they're going to they're their head that they're going to they're their head that they're going to they're going to draw from. So he's constantly going to draw from. So he's constantly going to draw from. So he's constantly referencing these movies in some cases referencing these movies in some cases referencing these movies in some cases that were made 50 years 60 years in the that were made 50 years 60 years in the that were made 50 years 60 years in the past. Uh they have a lot of similarities past. Uh they have a lot of similarities past. Uh they have a lot of similarities in terms of their structure. In no other in terms of their structure. In no other in terms of their structure. In no other media is there this insistence that media is there this insistence that media is there this insistence that information be introduced information be introduced information be introduced chronologically. chronologically. chronologically. So he's like so why should it be So he's like so why should it be So he's like so why should it be introduced chronologically in my very introduced chronologically in my very introduced chronologically in my very first film? So again he writes the first film? So again he writes the first film? So again he writes the script in chronological order. Then he script in chronological order. Then he script in chronological order. Then he cuts it up and literally rearranges the cuts it up and literally rearranges the cuts it up and literally rearranges the orders of the scene. And he he says he orders of the scene. And he he says he orders of the scene. And he he says he rejects chronological conservatism, rejects chronological conservatism, rejects chronological conservatism, which I thought was a funny term. He which I thought was a funny term. He which I thought was a funny term. He says, "We don't tend to have says, "We don't tend to have says, "We don't tend to have chronological conversations either. They chronological conversations either. They chronological conversations either. They go all over the place." So again, he's go all over the place." So again, he's go all over the place." So again, he's just saying, "Okay, well, why am I just saying, "Okay, well, why am I just saying, "Okay, well, why am I expecting?" And he thinks because of TV. expecting?" And he thinks because of TV. expecting?" And he thinks because of TV. TV presents things in more of a TV presents things in more of a TV presents things in more of a chronological order that influenced chronological order that influenced chronological order that influenced filmm. But if you go back in the films filmm. But if you go back in the films filmm. But if you go back in the films of the past, kind of reject that of the past, kind of reject that of the past, kind of reject that chronological conservatism. Think about chronological conservatism. Think about chronological conservatism. Think about the the books you read. They're not in the the books you read. They're not in the the books you read. They're not in chronological order. The conversations chronological order. The conversations chronological order. The conversations you're having are not in chronological you're having are not in chronological you're having are not in chronological order. So I don't my movie shouldn't order. So I don't my movie shouldn't order. So I don't my movie shouldn't have to be either. And then I just love have to be either. And then I just love have to be either. And then I just love this idea. I always think about like a this idea. I always think about like a this idea. I always think about like a person's setup like what is their setup? person's setup like what is their setup? person's setup like what is their setup? Like what is their home life like in Like what is their home life like in Like what is their home life like in relation to their work? I just did this relation to their work? I just did this relation to their work? I just did this episode last week on the merchant episode last week on the merchant episode last week on the merchant bankers and there was one guy in the bankers and there was one guy in the bankers and there was one guy in the book that I thought was interesting. I book that I thought was interesting. I book that I thought was interesting. I think it was an Italian guy and he had a think it was an Italian guy and he had a think it was an Italian guy and he had a house or excuse the apartment, merchant house or excuse the apartment, merchant house or excuse the apartment, merchant bank and a publishing house and it was bank and a publishing house and it was bank and a publishing house and it was like on the street say not only was on like on the street say not only was on like on the street say not only was on the same street it was on the same side the same street it was on the same side the same street it was on the same side of the street just so he wouldn't have of the street just so he wouldn't have of the street just so he wouldn't have to cross the street and so um in to cross the street and so um in to cross the street and so um in Christopher Nolan's case he's got a Christopher Nolan's case he's got a Christopher Nolan's case he's got a house in Los Angeles. Okay, so it says house in Los Angeles. Okay, so it says house in Los Angeles. Okay, so it says his home in Los Angeles and the his home in Los Angeles and the his home in Los Angeles and the production facility that sits in a production facility that sits in a production facility that sits in a nearly identical residence at the end of nearly identical residence at the end of nearly identical residence at the end of his garden. So the two residences sit his garden. So the two residences sit his garden. So the two residences sit back to back on opposite sides of the back to back on opposite sides of the back to back on opposite sides of the same block like mirror images of each same block like mirror images of each same block like mirror images of each other like a tenant com. So he's in his other like a tenant com. So he's in his other like a tenant com. So he's in his house and then to commute to his work he house and then to commute to his work he house and then to commute to his work he has to walk through the the backyard of has to walk through the the backyard of has to walk through the the backyard of his house to the backyard of his other his house to the backyard of his other his house to the backyard of his other house which is then his production house which is then his production house which is then his production facility. And it says uh his commute facility. And it says uh his commute facility. And it says uh his commute between his home and his work can be between his home and his work can be between his home and his work can be completed in under one minute. And so completed in under one minute. And so completed in under one minute. And so here's Christopher Nolan at 27 years here's Christopher Nolan at 27 years here's Christopher Nolan at 27 years old. his first movie following is going old. his first movie following is going old. his first movie following is going to lead to momento. And really the to lead to momento. And really the to lead to momento. And really the reason I'm reading this paragraph is reason I'm reading this paragraph is reason I'm reading this paragraph is because I think doing the best job you because I think doing the best job you because I think doing the best job you can with the opportunities in front of can with the opportunities in front of can with the opportunities in front of you is going to lead uh to opportunities you is going to lead uh to opportunities you is going to lead uh to opportunities in the future you can't possibly in the future you can't possibly in the future you can't possibly predict. And so there this other friend predict. And so there this other friend predict. And so there this other friend of his at the time is describing of his at the time is describing of his at the time is describing Christopher Nolan when Christopher Nolan Christopher Nolan when Christopher Nolan Christopher Nolan when Christopher Nolan is 27. Rather than being discouraged by is 27. Rather than being discouraged by is 27. Rather than being discouraged by his rejection from his film school, he his rejection from his film school, he his rejection from his film school, he was hot on a new idea for a movie. The was hot on a new idea for a movie. The was hot on a new idea for a movie. The story of a guy who loses his short-term story of a guy who loses his short-term story of a guy who loses his short-term memory and tries to solve the murder of memory and tries to solve the murder of memory and tries to solve the murder of his wife by tattooing clues on his body his wife by tattooing clues on his body his wife by tattooing clues on his body like little momentos. like little momentos. like little momentos. Chris also wanted to tell the story Chris also wanted to tell the story Chris also wanted to tell the story backward. That was very important. He backward. That was very important. He backward. That was very important. He said, "I couldn't quite see it, but when said, "I couldn't quite see it, but when said, "I couldn't quite see it, but when you're around someone who does, you you're around someone who does, you you're around someone who does, you start to believe it." Again, you could, start to believe it." Again, you could, start to believe it." Again, you could, you know, be sad or depressed that you you know, be sad or depressed that you you know, be sad or depressed that you got rejected from what you thought you got rejected from what you thought you got rejected from what you thought you wanted to do. That leads him to this wanted to do. That leads him to this wanted to do. That leads him to this next idea, which again how we started next idea, which again how we started next idea, which again how we started the conversation today. Momento is what the conversation today. Momento is what the conversation today. Momento is what causes his his the new like near causes his his the new like near causes his his the new like near vertical ascent of his career. So he vertical ascent of his career. So he vertical ascent of his career. So he actually in the year 2000 debuts Momento actually in the year 2000 debuts Momento actually in the year 2000 debuts Momento at the Venice Film Festival and he at the Venice Film Festival and he at the Venice Film Festival and he describes the turning point of his life describes the turning point of his life describes the turning point of his life which I absolutely love. So he says my which I absolutely love. So he says my which I absolutely love. So he says my films always end the same way with some films always end the same way with some films always end the same way with some sort of sudden flourish. It's building sort of sudden flourish. It's building sort of sudden flourish. It's building to that moment and then the film ends to that moment and then the film ends to that moment and then the film ends very abruptly and for a few seconds very abruptly and for a few seconds very abruptly and for a few seconds everyone was completely silent. I everyone was completely silent. I everyone was completely silent. I thought oh no they hate it. There were a thought oh no they hate it. There were a thought oh no they hate it. There were a couple seconds where literally I had no couple seconds where literally I had no couple seconds where literally I had no idea what was about to happen. I was idea what was about to happen. I was idea what was about to happen. I was very frightened. And then there was an very frightened. And then there was an very frightened. And then there was an enormous standing ovation and enormous standing ovation and enormous standing ovation and everything. It was extraordinary. It was everything. It was extraordinary. It was everything. It was extraordinary. It was the turning point of my life. And so the turning point of my life. And so the turning point of my life. And so each chapter goes into great detail of each chapter goes into great detail of each chapter goes into great detail of how they make each movie. The chapter on how they make each movie. The chapter on how they make each movie. The chapter on Momento is obviously the one we're in. Momento is obviously the one we're in. Momento is obviously the one we're in. There's just one line from there. Again, There's just one line from there. Again, There's just one line from there. Again, I think these lines give you an insight I think these lines give you an insight I think these lines give you an insight into who this is, who this p this unique into who this is, who this p this unique into who this is, who this p this unique person we're talking about is. He's person we're talking about is. He's person we're talking about is. He's talking about Momento, but he's really talking about Momento, but he's really talking about Momento, but he's really talking about what he believes in real talking about what he believes in real talking about what he believes in real life. I think this goes back to the fact life. I think this goes back to the fact life. I think this goes back to the fact that he just feels that there's way more that he just feels that there's way more that he just feels that there's way more to the world than we understand. There's to the world than we understand. There's to the world than we understand. There's way more to the world than meets the way more to the world than meets the way more to the world than meets the eye. He says, "I find the idea of not eye. He says, "I find the idea of not eye. He says, "I find the idea of not being able to trust your own mind very being able to trust your own mind very being able to trust your own mind very creepy." And so for the next movie to be creepy." And so for the next movie to be creepy." And so for the next movie to be made, Chris Nolan actually had to have made, Chris Nolan actually had to have made, Chris Nolan actually had to have the help of an older, more experienced the help of an older, more experienced the help of an older, more experienced director. So, he's going to make this uh director. So, he's going to make this uh director. So, he's going to make this uh movie called Insomnia and another movie called Insomnia and another movie called Insomnia and another director called Steven Sodenberg. He director called Steven Sodenberg. He director called Steven Sodenberg. He says Steven was the one that basically says Steven was the one that basically says Steven was the one that basically got Insomnia made at the time. Nolan's got Insomnia made at the time. Nolan's got Insomnia made at the time. Nolan's going around and trying to pitch his going around and trying to pitch his going around and trying to pitch his movie to a bunch of major studios and he movie to a bunch of major studios and he movie to a bunch of major studios and he couldn't even get meetings. And so couldn't even get meetings. And so couldn't even get meetings. And so Steven Solderberg upon hearing of Steven Solderberg upon hearing of Steven Solderberg upon hearing of Nolan's difficulties getting a meeting Nolan's difficulties getting a meeting Nolan's difficulties getting a meeting with the executives of Warner Brothers with the executives of Warner Brothers with the executives of Warner Brothers marched across the lot to the head of marched across the lot to the head of marched across the lot to the head of production and told him, "You're insane production and told him, "You're insane production and told him, "You're insane if you don't meet with this guy." He if you don't meet with this guy." He if you don't meet with this guy." He even offered to executive produce even offered to executive produce even offered to executive produce Insomnia himself along with George Insomnia himself along with George Insomnia himself along with George Clooney by the way of guaranteeing the Clooney by the way of guaranteeing the Clooney by the way of guaranteeing the then 31-year-old director, which is then 31-year-old director, which is then 31-year-old director, which is Christopher Nolan. And Christopher Nolan Christopher Nolan. And Christopher Nolan Christopher Nolan. And Christopher Nolan says Steven didn't have to do that, but says Steven didn't have to do that, but says Steven didn't have to do that, but he did. He and George became the he did. He and George became the he did. He and George became the executive producers of Insomnia. And executive producers of Insomnia. And executive producers of Insomnia. And this was another very important turning this was another very important turning this was another very important turning point of Christopher Nola's life because point of Christopher Nola's life because point of Christopher Nola's life because then he starts to learn how to operate then he starts to learn how to operate then he starts to learn how to operate within the studio system. How to work within the studio system. How to work within the studio system. How to work with the big studios. The way I describe with the big studios. The way I describe with the big studios. The way I describe what's about to happen this with this what's about to happen this with this what's about to happen this with this and the way Christopher Nola approaches and the way Christopher Nola approaches and the way Christopher Nola approaches work is that constraints breed work is that constraints breed work is that constraints breed resourcefulness and then resourcefulness resourcefulness and then resourcefulness resourcefulness and then resourcefulness helps you maintain control. By the end helps you maintain control. By the end helps you maintain control. By the end of the production, he had learned an of the production, he had learned an of the production, he had learned an important lesson about working for the important lesson about working for the important lesson about working for the studios. This is what he said. The studios. This is what he said. The studios. This is what he said. The efficiency of filmm is for me a way to efficiency of filmm is for me a way to efficiency of filmm is for me a way to keep of keeping control. the pressure of keep of keeping control. the pressure of keep of keeping control. the pressure of time, the pressure of money. Even though time, the pressure of money. Even though time, the pressure of money. Even though they feel like restrictions at the time they feel like restrictions at the time they feel like restrictions at the time and you chafe against them, they're and you chafe against them, they're and you chafe against them, they're helping you make decisions. They really helping you make decisions. They really helping you make decisions. They really are. If I, this is great, if I know that are. If I, this is great, if I know that are. If I, this is great, if I know that deadline is there, then my creative deadline is there, then my creative deadline is there, then my creative process ramps up exponentially. Creative process ramps up exponentially. Creative process ramps up exponentially. Creative power in film making is very important power in film making is very important power in film making is very important to me. I'm very protective of it, but I to me. I'm very protective of it, but I to me. I'm very protective of it, but I can get my power from spending less and can get my power from spending less and can get my power from spending less and moving faster. Not giving anybody a moving faster. Not giving anybody a moving faster. Not giving anybody a reason to come and visit me and reason to come and visit me and reason to come and visit me and interfere or complain. I made that interfere or complain. I made that interfere or complain. I made that decision very early in my career. If I decision very early in my career. If I decision very early in my career. If I can work a little bit faster than people can work a little bit faster than people can work a little bit faster than people expect, if I can work a little bit expect, if I can work a little bit expect, if I can work a little bit cheaper than people expect, then they'll cheaper than people expect, then they'll cheaper than people expect, then they'll let me do my thing. Again, constraints let me do my thing. Again, constraints let me do my thing. Again, constraints breed resourcefulness. Resourcefulness breed resourcefulness. Resourcefulness breed resourcefulness. Resourcefulness helps him maintain control. And so, it's helps him maintain control. And so, it's helps him maintain control. And so, it's these experiences that he just realizes these experiences that he just realizes these experiences that he just realizes that big studios, they have this way of that big studios, they have this way of that big studios, they have this way of just working that encourages waste and just working that encourages waste and just working that encourages waste and doesn't give Nolan the control and doesn't give Nolan the control and doesn't give Nolan the control and involvement that he desires. And he involvement that he desires. And he involvement that he desires. And he says, you're encouraged in a big movie says, you're encouraged in a big movie says, you're encouraged in a big movie to very rapidly hire an enormous number to very rapidly hire an enormous number to very rapidly hire an enormous number of people, artists, concept guys, and of people, artists, concept guys, and of people, artists, concept guys, and all this stuff. Then you have to feed all this stuff. Then you have to feed all this stuff. Then you have to feed that beast. And so you're in a situation that beast. And so you're in a situation that beast. And so you're in a situation where you go, I need a robot for this where you go, I need a robot for this where you go, I need a robot for this science fiction film. Figure me out a science fiction film. Figure me out a science fiction film. Figure me out a robot. And then you go away while they robot. And then you go away while they robot. And then you go away while they do whatever they feel like and come back do whatever they feel like and come back do whatever they feel like and come back with a robot. This is the most important with a robot. This is the most important with a robot. This is the most important part of this section. Which didn't suit part of this section. Which didn't suit part of this section. Which didn't suit my way of working at all. He wants to be my way of working at all. He wants to be my way of working at all. He wants to be involved. They will spend literally, and involved. They will spend literally, and involved. They will spend literally, and he's talking about the big studios. They he's talking about the big studios. They he's talking about the big studios. They will spend literally millions of dollars will spend literally millions of dollars will spend literally millions of dollars on films that don't happen. Meanwhile, on films that don't happen. Meanwhile, on films that don't happen. Meanwhile, Nolan's working out of his garage at Nolan's working out of his garage at Nolan's working out of his garage at home trying to do as much work in home trying to do as much work in home trying to do as much work in pre-production before spending any pre-production before spending any pre-production before spending any money. It's the opposite of spending money. It's the opposite of spending money. It's the opposite of spending millions of dollars on a movie that millions of dollars on a movie that millions of dollars on a movie that never comes to fruition. Another thing never comes to fruition. Another thing never comes to fruition. Another thing that's surprising about Nolan that's a that's surprising about Nolan that's a that's surprising about Nolan that's a little different from a lot of people little different from a lot of people little different from a lot of people you and I talk about, a lot of you you and I talk about, a lot of you you and I talk about, a lot of you people you and I talk about have this people you and I talk about have this people you and I talk about have this like delusional self-confidence, this like delusional self-confidence, this like delusional self-confidence, this this self-belief, this like reality this self-belief, this like reality this self-belief, this like reality distortion field. He's a pessimist and distortion field. He's a pessimist and distortion field. He's a pessimist and it's not what I would say is the way the it's not what I would say is the way the it's not what I would say is the way the reason this is an interesting tool for reason this is an interesting tool for reason this is an interesting tool for him is he's imagining failure constantly him is he's imagining failure constantly him is he's imagining failure constantly and then doing everything he can to and then doing everything he can to and then doing everything he can to avoid it. I am very much a pessimist. I avoid it. I am very much a pessimist. I avoid it. I am very much a pessimist. I always plan for the worst. And then I always plan for the worst. And then I always plan for the worst. And then I thought it was really interesting when thought it was really interesting when thought it was really interesting when the book went into a 20-year creative the book went into a 20-year creative the book went into a 20-year creative partnership between that Christopher partnership between that Christopher partnership between that Christopher Nolan has uh with Hans Zimmer. He says Nolan has uh with Hans Zimmer. He says Nolan has uh with Hans Zimmer. He says that's why Hans and I have worked so that's why Hans and I have worked so that's why Hans and I have worked so successfully together because I like to successfully together because I like to successfully together because I like to say that he's a minimalist composer with say that he's a minimalist composer with say that he's a minimalist composer with maximalist production values. It is a maximalist production values. It is a maximalist production values. It is a very big sound but the ideas behind it very big sound but the ideas behind it very big sound but the ideas behind it are incredibly minimalist very very are incredibly minimalist very very are incredibly minimalist very very simple and that gives me space to work simple and that gives me space to work simple and that gives me space to work as a filmmaker between the notes. What as a filmmaker between the notes. What as a filmmaker between the notes. What I've done with film scores over the I've done with film scores over the I've done with film scores over the years is to try and totally reverse the years is to try and totally reverse the years is to try and totally reverse the process and start with the emotion. process and start with the emotion. process and start with the emotion. Start with the basic heart of the story Start with the basic heart of the story Start with the basic heart of the story and then build the mechanics after that. and then build the mechanics after that. and then build the mechanics after that. Nolan's description of Han Zimmer, a Nolan's description of Han Zimmer, a Nolan's description of Han Zimmer, a minimalist with maximalist production minimalist with maximalist production minimalist with maximalist production values, does double duty as a values, does double duty as a values, does double duty as a description of Nolan himself and hints description of Nolan himself and hints description of Nolan himself and hints at why the two men could forge such a at why the two men could forge such a at why the two men could forge such a close creative partnership in the years close creative partnership in the years close creative partnership in the years to come. And so this is another thing to come. And so this is another thing to come. And so this is another thing that he does I think is really that he does I think is really that he does I think is really interesting. this idea that you need to interesting. this idea that you need to interesting. this idea that you need to start with the heart and work backwards. start with the heart and work backwards. start with the heart and work backwards. So before shooting, Nolan actually types So before shooting, Nolan actually types So before shooting, Nolan actually types up a one-page summary of the film's up a one-page summary of the film's up a one-page summary of the film's vision and then we'll return to it vision and then we'll return to it vision and then we'll return to it repeatedly so he never loses the heart repeatedly so he never loses the heart repeatedly so he never loses the heart of the movie in the chaos of the film of the movie in the chaos of the film of the movie in the chaos of the film production. I thought that was really production. I thought that was really production. I thought that was really interesting that you start with the interesting that you start with the interesting that you start with the heart and then you work backwards. Go heart and then you work backwards. Go heart and then you work backwards. Go back again. I told you he's got a back again. I told you he's got a back again. I told you he's got a handful of these ideas that he applies handful of these ideas that he applies handful of these ideas that he applies year after year, movie after movie. year after year, movie after movie. year after year, movie after movie. We're in many years in the future since We're in many years in the future since We're in many years in the future since the last time I told you this different the last time I told you this different the last time I told you this different movie. But he says, "You never expect movie. But he says, "You never expect movie. But he says, "You never expect success." I'm a very negative, super success." I'm a very negative, super success." I'm a very negative, super superstitious, pessimistic person. superstitious, pessimistic person. superstitious, pessimistic person. Again, he's assuming it's going to be a Again, he's assuming it's going to be a Again, he's assuming it's going to be a failure and then working to to do failure and then working to to do failure and then working to to do everything that he can to prevent that. everything that he can to prevent that. everything that he can to prevent that. Uh oh, and it also goes back to making Uh oh, and it also goes back to making Uh oh, and it also goes back to making things that you're actually really proud things that you're actually really proud things that you're actually really proud of because he's had so many examples of because he's had so many examples of because he's had so many examples where they're like, "Oh, like uh his where they're like, "Oh, like uh his where they're like, "Oh, like uh his film got bad uh review. It's going to film got bad uh review. It's going to film got bad uh review. It's going to flop at the box office." he kind of flop at the box office." he kind of flop at the box office." he kind of tries to buy he kind of temporarily buys tries to buy he kind of temporarily buys tries to buy he kind of temporarily buys into what the outside world's uh saying into what the outside world's uh saying into what the outside world's uh saying and then winds up getting on when it's and then winds up getting on when it's and then winds up getting on when it's released goes to like number one gets released goes to like number one gets released goes to like number one gets great reviews. So this is what he great reviews. So this is what he great reviews. So this is what he learned about that. What I learned was learned about that. What I learned was learned about that. What I learned was it's really important uh to me that I it's really important uh to me that I it's really important uh to me that I knew the film was good that I knew that knew the film was good that I knew that knew the film was good that I knew that I liked what I had done. I felt very I liked what I had done. I felt very I liked what I had done. I felt very good about that and you realize when the good about that and you realize when the good about that and you realize when the chips are down and everyone turns around chips are down and everyone turns around chips are down and everyone turns around and tells you that it's crap that is all and tells you that it's crap that is all and tells you that it's crap that is all you have. So if you don't believe in it you have. So if you don't believe in it you have. So if you don't believe in it in the first place you're taking a risk in the first place you're taking a risk in the first place you're taking a risk you're taking a terrible risk. This has you're taking a terrible risk. This has you're taking a terrible risk. This has already been mentioned several times, already been mentioned several times, already been mentioned several times, but the fact that Nolan loves operating but the fact that Nolan loves operating but the fact that Nolan loves operating within constraints. He's making this within constraints. He's making this within constraints. He's making this movie, has a very tight budget of just movie, has a very tight budget of just movie, has a very tight budget of just 40 million. And it says, "This tight 40 million. And it says, "This tight 40 million. And it says, "This tight budget enforces Nolan's favorite budget enforces Nolan's favorite budget enforces Nolan's favorite conditions. Improvisation within a set conditions. Improvisation within a set conditions. Improvisation within a set of restrictions." Few pages later, it of restrictions." Few pages later, it of restrictions." Few pages later, it goes back to this idea that I've goes back to this idea that I've goes back to this idea that I've repeated a few times. I make films that repeated a few times. I make films that repeated a few times. I make films that are huge endorsements of the idea that are huge endorsements of the idea that are huge endorsements of the idea that there's more to our world than meets the there's more to our world than meets the there's more to our world than meets the eye. He goes back to this idea that he eye. He goes back to this idea that he eye. He goes back to this idea that he desires to live and to work in an analog desires to live and to work in an analog desires to live and to work in an analog world. Nolan's antagonism with regard to world. Nolan's antagonism with regard to world. Nolan's antagonism with regard to new technologies is farreaching. An new technologies is farreaching. An new technologies is farreaching. An absolute believer in the difference absolute believer in the difference absolute believer in the difference between photographic and between photographic and between photographic and computerenerated imagery, he prefers the computerenerated imagery, he prefers the computerenerated imagery, he prefers the grain and texture of celluloid to the grain and texture of celluloid to the grain and texture of celluloid to the flatness of digital location shootings flatness of digital location shootings flatness of digital location shootings to sets and physical sets to to sets and physical sets to to sets and physical sets to computerenerated backdrops. The appeal computerenerated backdrops. The appeal computerenerated backdrops. The appeal of his films in some ways rests on the of his films in some ways rests on the of his films in some ways rests on the same principle behind the popularity of same principle behind the popularity of same principle behind the popularity of boutique hotels, low-fi recording uh boutique hotels, low-fi recording uh boutique hotels, low-fi recording uh methods, glitch music, and Etsy. That in methods, glitch music, and Etsy. That in methods, glitch music, and Etsy. That in the information age, more value, not the information age, more value, not the information age, more value, not less, will acrue to precisely those less, will acrue to precisely those less, will acrue to precisely those elements that cannot be cut and pasted. elements that cannot be cut and pasted. elements that cannot be cut and pasted. Goes back to this idea that there's more Goes back to this idea that there's more Goes back to this idea that there's more uh to the world than meets the eye uh to the world than meets the eye uh to the world than meets the eye again. and also the fact that he thinks again. and also the fact that he thinks again. and also the fact that he thinks we're being duped by technology which he we're being duped by technology which he we're being duped by technology which he repeats over and over again. The idea repeats over and over again. The idea repeats over and over again. The idea that you think all this information like that you think all this information like that you think all this information like all the all the human knowledge is all the all the human knowledge is all the all the human knowledge is online. And so he he has like this online. And so he he has like this online. And so he he has like this interesting thought experiment not even interesting thought experiment not even interesting thought experiment not even thought experiment an actual experiment thought experiment an actual experiment thought experiment an actual experiment to see if that's true. So he says an to see if that's true. So he says an to see if that's true. So he says an interesting experiment would be to walk interesting experiment would be to walk interesting experiment would be to walk into a library, go to a book, open the into a library, go to a book, open the into a library, go to a book, open the book to a random page, find a fact or book to a random page, find a fact or book to a random page, find a fact or piece of information, write it down, do piece of information, write it down, do piece of information, write it down, do that 10 times, and then go online and that 10 times, and then go online and that 10 times, and then go online and see how many of those 10 you can find. see how many of those 10 you can find. see how many of those 10 you can find. Our feeling is that 90% of the Our feeling is that 90% of the Our feeling is that 90% of the information is online. I have a information is online. I have a information is online. I have a suspicion that the real answer is.9%. suspicion that the real answer is.9%. suspicion that the real answer is.9%. So the author of the book actually does So the author of the book actually does So the author of the book actually does this and he has 10 facts and he only this and he has 10 facts and he only this and he has 10 facts and he only found one of them uh online. So not.9% found one of them uh online. So not.9% found one of them uh online. So not.9% but way less than 90%. Uh so then we go but way less than 90%. Uh so then we go but way less than 90%. Uh so then we go back to again this is the year 2006 and back to again this is the year 2006 and back to again this is the year 2006 and he goes back to the fact that he's going he goes back to the fact that he's going he goes back to the fact that he's going to find the best way that he wants to to find the best way that he wants to to find the best way that he wants to work and he's going to do that work and he's going to do that work and he's going to do that regardless of what the rest of his regardless of what the rest of his regardless of what the rest of his industry is doing. So it says we live industry is doing. So it says we live industry is doing. So it says we live and work in an analog world. The and work in an analog world. The and work in an analog world. The Prestige, which is the movie that came Prestige, which is the movie that came Prestige, which is the movie that came out in 2006, was the first film where we out in 2006, was the first film where we out in 2006, was the first film where we were expected by the studio to digitize were expected by the studio to digitize were expected by the studio to digitize the negative and edit electronically. To the negative and edit electronically. To the negative and edit electronically. To this day, we've never converted to the this day, we've never converted to the this day, we've never converted to the other workflow used by most of the other workflow used by most of the other workflow used by most of the industry. We've continued to shoot on industry. We've continued to shoot on industry. We've continued to shoot on film, edit electronically, then take the film, edit electronically, then take the film, edit electronically, then take the frame numbers and cut the film by hand, frame numbers and cut the film by hand, frame numbers and cut the film by hand, and that's what goes out. The Prestige and that's what goes out. The Prestige and that's what goes out. The Prestige was very much the point at which we was very much the point at which we was very much the point at which we separated from the rest of the industry, separated from the rest of the industry, separated from the rest of the industry, or rather they separated from us. And so or rather they separated from us. And so or rather they separated from us. And so a few pages later, you can kind of a few pages later, you can kind of a few pages later, you can kind of expound on that. You can easily sum up expound on that. You can easily sum up expound on that. You can easily sum up Nolan's entire ethos as a filmmaker. He Nolan's entire ethos as a filmmaker. He Nolan's entire ethos as a filmmaker. He takes the rules of genre and he flips takes the rules of genre and he flips takes the rules of genre and he flips them. Another thing that he says, he'll them. Another thing that he says, he'll them. Another thing that he says, he'll use the word strip away, reduce, use the word strip away, reduce, use the word strip away, reduce, minimalist, cut. So he says, I think, minimalist, cut. So he says, I think, minimalist, cut. So he says, I think, and he talks about the older he gets, and he talks about the older he gets, and he talks about the older he gets, the more experience he gets, the more the more experience he gets, the more the more experience he gets, the more confidence he has, the more he can confidence he has, the more he can confidence he has, the more he can actually cut. I think a lot of that is actually cut. I think a lot of that is actually cut. I think a lot of that is about confidence because it takes more about confidence because it takes more about confidence because it takes more confidence to strip things away. And so confidence to strip things away. And so confidence to strip things away. And so when he's working on the Batman series, when he's working on the Batman series, when he's working on the Batman series, there's this line by the Joker that there's this line by the Joker that there's this line by the Joker that again sounds like it would come out of again sounds like it would come out of again sounds like it would come out of not the Joker's mouth, but Christopher not the Joker's mouth, but Christopher not the Joker's mouth, but Christopher Nolan's mouth. The only sensible way to Nolan's mouth. The only sensible way to Nolan's mouth. The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules. And live in this world is without rules. And live in this world is without rules. And so there's this really he talked about so there's this really he talked about so there's this really he talked about the turning point of momentum being, you the turning point of momentum being, you the turning point of momentum being, you know, critically acclaimed. I think it know, critically acclaimed. I think it know, critically acclaimed. I think it won uh two Oscars. Uh winds up, I think, won uh two Oscars. Uh winds up, I think, won uh two Oscars. Uh winds up, I think, returning like something like 5x or 10x returning like something like 5x or 10x returning like something like 5x or 10x it its budget. And then he was able to it its budget. And then he was able to it its budget. And then he was able to like just take have this like near like just take have this like near like just take have this like near vertical ascent. But then one of his vertical ascent. But then one of his vertical ascent. But then one of his movies makes a billion dollars. The Dark movies makes a billion dollars. The Dark movies makes a billion dollars. The Dark Knight makes over a billion dollars at Knight makes over a billion dollars at Knight makes over a billion dollars at the box box office. And this momentum the box box office. And this momentum the box box office. And this momentum changes his entire career. And then the changes his entire career. And then the changes his entire career. And then the way he thinks about the changes that he way he thinks about the changes that he way he thinks about the changes that he experienced during this time of career I experienced during this time of career I experienced during this time of career I thought was really interesting. So it thought was really interesting. So it thought was really interesting. So it says suddenly his position at Warner says suddenly his position at Warner says suddenly his position at Warner Brothers went from solid to unassalable. Brothers went from solid to unassalable. Brothers went from solid to unassalable. The immediately thing that this did was The immediately thing that this did was The immediately thing that this did was extraordinary and allowed me to do extraordinary and allowed me to do extraordinary and allowed me to do whatever I wanted to as the next film. whatever I wanted to as the next film. whatever I wanted to as the next film. Creatively speaking, they were going to Creatively speaking, they were going to Creatively speaking, they were going to let me do whatever I wanted to do. let me do whatever I wanted to do. let me do whatever I wanted to do. Everything up to that moment had been a Everything up to that moment had been a Everything up to that moment had been a fight or a struggle one way or another. fight or a struggle one way or another. fight or a struggle one way or another. And then he said, "Suddenly realizing And then he said, "Suddenly realizing And then he said, "Suddenly realizing this, I said,"Oh, okay. I'm going to get this, I said,"Oh, okay. I'm going to get this, I said,"Oh, okay. I'm going to get the last word word." It was very the last word word." It was very the last word word." It was very liberating in a lot of ways, but it was liberating in a lot of ways, but it was liberating in a lot of ways, but it was also scary because you know that every also scary because you know that every also scary because you know that every filmmaker would give their teeth for filmmaker would give their teeth for filmmaker would give their teeth for that. So finally, you've got it and what that. So finally, you've got it and what that. So finally, you've got it and what are you going to do with it? For the are you going to do with it? For the are you going to do with it? For the first time, I was able to step back and first time, I was able to step back and first time, I was able to step back and go, "Okay, what do I want to do now?" go, "Okay, what do I want to do now?" go, "Okay, what do I want to do now?" And then he figured out, remember I said And then he figured out, remember I said And then he figured out, remember I said that these ideas can be dormant or that these ideas can be dormant or that these ideas can be dormant or ruminate for decades. And so he says, ruminate for decades. And so he says, ruminate for decades. And so he says, "What I've always wanted to do was to do "What I've always wanted to do was to do "What I've always wanted to do was to do inception." So throughout the book, he's inception." So throughout the book, he's inception." So throughout the book, he's always talking about these influences always talking about these influences always talking about these influences that he has. He'll use the world as this that he has. He'll use the world as this that he has. He'll use the world as this giant classroom, take those influences giant classroom, take those influences giant classroom, take those influences and apply it to his work. But he makes a and apply it to his work. But he makes a and apply it to his work. But he makes a really interesting point here. He's a really interesting point here. He's a really interesting point here. He's a big fan of the short stories and the big fan of the short stories and the big fan of the short stories and the writing of Jorge Luis Boures. And his writing of Jorge Luis Boures. And his writing of Jorge Luis Boures. And his point on the influence that he has like point on the influence that he has like point on the influence that he has like you you have to have something else you you have to have something else you you have to have something else going on in your life. Like you can't going on in your life. Like you can't going on in your life. Like you can't somebody can't just give you a story and somebody can't just give you a story and somebody can't just give you a story and then what are you going to do with it? then what are you going to do with it? then what are you going to do with it? You have to have something to hang it You have to have something to hang it You have to have something to hang it on. So he says with those short stories, on. So he says with those short stories, on. So he says with those short stories, you have to have something rattling you have to have something rattling you have to have something rattling inside you already that then connects inside you already that then connects inside you already that then connects with that. But if you're not already with that. But if you're not already with that. But if you're not already predisposed to that, it just comes to predisposed to that, it just comes to predisposed to that, it just comes to you as a story and it doesn't you as a story and it doesn't you as a story and it doesn't necessarily spark anything. So he took necessarily spark anything. So he took necessarily spark anything. So he took one idea from the short story uh that one idea from the short story uh that one idea from the short story uh that Borhees wrote and it's actually one of Borhees wrote and it's actually one of Borhees wrote and it's actually one of the main ideas in Inception. And that the main ideas in Inception. And that the main ideas in Inception. And that was important because he had taken was important because he had taken was important because he had taken multiple shots up until this point to multiple shots up until this point to multiple shots up until this point to try to finish writing Inception. He try to finish writing Inception. He try to finish writing Inception. He says, "I managed to get about 80 pages says, "I managed to get about 80 pages says, "I managed to get about 80 pages in. I got into the beginning of the in. I got into the beginning of the in. I got into the beginning of the third act and then got stuck and I third act and then got stuck and I third act and then got stuck and I stayed stuck for years and years. stayed stuck for years and years. stayed stuck for years and years. Inception was thus the work of half a Inception was thus the work of half a Inception was thus the work of half a lifetime. An idea first conceived by lifetime. An idea first conceived by lifetime. An idea first conceived by Nolan when he was 16, nursed at Nolan when he was 16, nursed at Nolan when he was 16, nursed at university, elaborated upon when he came university, elaborated upon when he came university, elaborated upon when he came to Hollywood, and finally executed in to Hollywood, and finally executed in to Hollywood, and finally executed in the wake of the Dark Knight's success. the wake of the Dark Knight's success. the wake of the Dark Knight's success. Inception took input from its maker at Inception took input from its maker at Inception took input from its maker at every major point of his life. The every major point of his life. The every major point of his life. The school boy, the university student, the school boy, the university student, the school boy, the university student, the Hollywood neopight, the success story, Hollywood neopight, the success story, Hollywood neopight, the success story, the father. What a paragraph. I love the father. What a paragraph. I love the father. What a paragraph. I love that. And again, there's a crazy line a that. And again, there's a crazy line a that. And again, there's a crazy line a few pages later. 23 years after first few pages later. 23 years after first few pages later. 23 years after first conceiving of the idea, Nolan commenced conceiving of the idea, Nolan commenced conceiving of the idea, Nolan commenced principal photography on inception on principal photography on inception on principal photography on inception on June 19th, 2009. I would encourage you June 19th, 2009. I would encourage you June 19th, 2009. I would encourage you to buy this book, read this book, but to buy this book, read this book, but to buy this book, read this book, but you should look at the pictures because you should look at the pictures because you should look at the pictures because then you see how he like maps everything then you see how he like maps everything then you see how he like maps everything out. And so this is one of the most out. And so this is one of the most out. And so this is one of the most interesting ideas, this idea that first interesting ideas, this idea that first interesting ideas, this idea that first flip it. Okay? So, and you can see how flip it. Okay? So, and you can see how flip it. Okay? So, and you can see how he like writes out the plots and he like writes out the plots and he like writes out the plots and everything. So it says when the director everything. So it says when the director everything. So it says when the director first hears or has an idea, his first first hears or has an idea, his first first hears or has an idea, his first instinct is to flip it, turning it instinct is to flip it, turning it instinct is to flip it, turning it almost into a three-dimensional object almost into a three-dimensional object almost into a three-dimensional object that he can hold in his hands or walk that he can hold in his hands or walk that he can hold in his hands or walk around. Storytelling thus becomes a around. Storytelling thus becomes a around. Storytelling thus becomes a three-dimensional exercise like three-dimensional exercise like three-dimensional exercise like sculpture. And then he talks about as sculpture. And then he talks about as sculpture. And then he talks about as your career continues, you have this your career continues, you have this your career continues, you have this like confluence of events you can't and like confluence of events you can't and like confluence of events you can't and influences you can't even almost like influences you can't even almost like influences you can't even almost like they operate like a subconscious level. they operate like a subconscious level. they operate like a subconscious level. I think this is why Steve Jobs said that I think this is why Steve Jobs said that I think this is why Steve Jobs said that the older he gets, the more important the older he gets, the more important the older he gets, the more important that he thinks intuition was. And that that he thinks intuition was. And that that he thinks intuition was. And that intuition played a much larger role in intuition played a much larger role in intuition played a much larger role in his career than than intellect did. And his career than than intellect did. And his career than than intellect did. And so Nolan says, "What I've accepted over so Nolan says, "What I've accepted over so Nolan says, "What I've accepted over the years is that the job of a director the years is that the job of a director the years is that the job of a director is one in which a lot of what you do is is one in which a lot of what you do is is one in which a lot of what you do is instinctive and unconscious." I actually instinctive and unconscious." I actually instinctive and unconscious." I actually uh was with a friend the other day. He's uh was with a friend the other day. He's uh was with a friend the other day. He's one of the greatest investors uh one of the greatest investors uh one of the greatest investors uh basically no one has ever heard of. And basically no one has ever heard of. And basically no one has ever heard of. And and he likes it that way. And what he and he likes it that way. And what he and he likes it that way. And what he told me was very interesting. He says, told me was very interesting. He says, told me was very interesting. He says, "The the more I understand about "The the more I understand about "The the more I understand about investing, the better I get at it." He investing, the better I get at it." He investing, the better I get at it." He says something like uh the less I think says something like uh the less I think says something like uh the less I think I should actually have a team that it I should actually have a team that it I should actually have a team that it was something like the performance could was something like the performance could was something like the performance could be like inversely correlated to the be like inversely correlated to the be like inversely correlated to the amount of people on his team and part of amount of people on his team and part of amount of people on his team and part of it was because he's like had this it was because he's like had this it was because he's like had this intuition or instinct that we should be intuition or instinct that we should be intuition or instinct that we should be doing something and you try to give it doing something and you try to give it doing something and you try to give it give it to somebody else on the team to give it to somebody else on the team to give it to somebody else on the team to do or explain it to them and it they do or explain it to them and it they do or explain it to them and it they don't because they don't have whatever don't because they don't have whatever don't because they don't have whatever is like that intuition you have in you is like that intuition you have in you is like that intuition you have in you that the subconscious that's driving that the subconscious that's driving that the subconscious that's driving you. They don't understand how important you. They don't understand how important you. They don't understand how important it is. They basically kind of like take it is. They basically kind of like take it is. They basically kind of like take an idea that if he just ran with it an idea that if he just ran with it an idea that if he just ran with it would have been a lot more successful would have been a lot more successful would have been a lot more successful and they kind of just [ __ ] it up. But I and they kind of just [ __ ] it up. But I and they kind of just [ __ ] it up. But I love that idea. What I've accepted over love that idea. What I've accepted over love that idea. What I've accepted over the years that the job director, the years that the job director, the years that the job director, entrepreneur, whatever case is is one in entrepreneur, whatever case is is one in entrepreneur, whatever case is is one in which a lot of what you do is which a lot of what you do is which a lot of what you do is instinctive and unconscious. And so in instinctive and unconscious. And so in instinctive and unconscious. And so in any endeavor you're going to get stuck. any endeavor you're going to get stuck. any endeavor you're going to get stuck. And in Inception you get stuck in almost And in Inception you get stuck in almost And in Inception you get stuck in almost all these movies you get stuck. But on all these movies you get stuck. But on all these movies you get stuck. But on Inception is very fascinating because Inception is very fascinating because Inception is very fascinating because then he talks about what you do when you then he talks about what you do when you then he talks about what you do when you get unstuck. And this is going to remind get unstuck. And this is going to remind get unstuck. And this is going to remind me of Rick Rubin. uh somewhere a few me of Rick Rubin. uh somewhere a few me of Rick Rubin. uh somewhere a few weeks into the cut where normally you weeks into the cut where normally you weeks into the cut where normally you begin to gain a little bit of confidence begin to gain a little bit of confidence begin to gain a little bit of confidence that it's coming together. We just hit a that it's coming together. We just hit a that it's coming together. We just hit a wall. We got stuck for a long time. I wall. We got stuck for a long time. I wall. We got stuck for a long time. I couldn't get to sleep for a couple days. couldn't get to sleep for a couple days. couldn't get to sleep for a couple days. It was just awful. I was like, "Oh my It was just awful. I was like, "Oh my It was just awful. I was like, "Oh my god, we've just taken $200 million and god, we've just taken $200 million and god, we've just taken $200 million and burned it in a bonfire." As you make a burned it in a bonfire." As you make a burned it in a bonfire." As you make a film, most things tend to work along film, most things tend to work along film, most things tend to work along this sliding scale of like, "Yeah, this sliding scale of like, "Yeah, this sliding scale of like, "Yeah, that's got to that's going to get that's got to that's going to get that's got to that's going to get better. We need to tweak that." And you better. We need to tweak that." And you better. We need to tweak that." And you just adjust it. It's like tightening just adjust it. It's like tightening just adjust it. It's like tightening with lug nuts on a tire. You do this one with lug nuts on a tire. You do this one with lug nuts on a tire. You do this one and then you do that one a little bit and then you do that one a little bit and then you do that one a little bit and you do that one a little bit and you and you do that one a little bit and you and you do that one a little bit and you keep the rotation. But every now and keep the rotation. But every now and keep the rotation. But every now and again you get somewhere where it just again you get somewhere where it just again you get somewhere where it just doesn't and you're like this will never doesn't and you're like this will never doesn't and you're like this will never work. This we will never get past. So work. This we will never get past. So work. This we will never get past. So what do we do? The solution was a what do we do? The solution was a what do we do? The solution was a ruthless cut. So Rick Rubin talked about ruthless cut. So Rick Rubin talked about ruthless cut. So Rick Rubin talked about this and it's again think about what this and it's again think about what this and it's again think about what Steve Jobs did when we talked about Steve Jobs did when we talked about Steve Jobs did when we talked about Steve Jobs in exile. Comes back to to Steve Jobs in exile. Comes back to to Steve Jobs in exile. Comes back to to Apple and says you have you know 300 Apple and says you have you know 300 Apple and says you have you know 300 products. We're going to do four. We're products. We're going to do four. We're products. We're going to do four. We're going to do this ruthless cut. This going to do this ruthless cut. This going to do this ruthless cut. This ruthless edit. So, the ruthless cut in ruthless edit. So, the ruthless cut in ruthless edit. So, the ruthless cut in this book, what Nolan's talking about is this book, what Nolan's talking about is this book, what Nolan's talking about is called The Ruthless Edit by Rick Rubin. called The Ruthless Edit by Rick Rubin. called The Ruthless Edit by Rick Rubin. Let's say they're stuck. We need 10 Let's say they're stuck. We need 10 Let's say they're stuck. We need 10 songs on an album and I'm working with songs on an album and I'm working with songs on an album and I'm working with this band that's really important. You this band that's really important. You this band that's really important. You know, we have 15 that we kind of like or know, we have 15 that we kind of like or know, we have 15 that we kind of like or 20 that we kind of like. Let's not try 20 that we kind of like. Let's not try 20 that we kind of like. Let's not try to cut that 20 down to 10. Let's cut to cut that 20 down to 10. Let's cut to cut that 20 down to 10. Let's cut that 20 down to three. There's what are that 20 down to three. There's what are that 20 down to three. There's what are the three we cannot live without and the three we cannot live without and the three we cannot live without and then let's try to add each one back. So, then let's try to add each one back. So, then let's try to add each one back. So, number four, what is one that absolutely number four, what is one that absolutely number four, what is one that absolutely has to be number four? and you know if has to be number four? and you know if has to be number four? and you know if you got it or not, there's not one that you got it or not, there's not one that you got it or not, there's not one that actually has to record. That means you actually has to record. That means you actually has to record. That means you you made now you made 17 that of the 20 you made now you made 17 that of the 20 you made now you made 17 that of the 20 that you're not going to use. So then that you're not going to use. So then that you're not going to use. So then you might have to make another 20, 30, you might have to make another 20, 30, you might have to make another 20, 30, 40, 50 songs. But again, when you're 40, 50 songs. But again, when you're 40, 50 songs. But again, when you're stuck, just ruthlessly cut, ruthlessly stuck, just ruthlessly cut, ruthlessly stuck, just ruthlessly cut, ruthlessly edit. Uh absolutely love that idea. I edit. Uh absolutely love that idea. I edit. Uh absolutely love that idea. I think it's a really interesting idea. think it's a really interesting idea. think it's a really interesting idea. Goes back to his desire to live in an Goes back to his desire to live in an Goes back to his desire to live in an analog world. I think this is just a analog world. I think this is just a analog world. I think this is just a really great metaphor. The idea that you really great metaphor. The idea that you really great metaphor. The idea that you do not want to encourage dependency and do not want to encourage dependency and do not want to encourage dependency and you want to be able to find your way. you want to be able to find your way. you want to be able to find your way. Before I read this to you, something Before I read this to you, something Before I read this to you, something else popped in my mind just now where he else popped in my mind just now where he else popped in my mind just now where he talks about, you know, like his kids at talks about, you know, like his kids at talks about, you know, like his kids at the time. Now, can you imagine what you the time. Now, can you imagine what you the time. Now, can you imagine what you would do with like chachi BT uh but his would do with like chachi BT uh but his would do with like chachi BT uh but his kids at the time like if they wanted to kids at the time like if they wanted to kids at the time like if they wanted to look up information, they just Google look up information, they just Google look up information, they just Google and they get it immediately. He's like, and they get it immediately. He's like, and they get it immediately. He's like, well, when I was younger, I had to like well, when I was younger, I had to like well, when I was younger, I had to like go through like the Dewey decimal system go through like the Dewey decimal system go through like the Dewey decimal system in the library or something or like I in the library or something or like I in the library or something or like I have to hunt for that information. And have to hunt for that information. And have to hunt for that information. And that activity of hunting, of working, of that activity of hunting, of working, of that activity of hunting, of working, of it being laborious to get what you want, it being laborious to get what you want, it being laborious to get what you want, he says that activity, even if you don't he says that activity, even if you don't he says that activity, even if you don't get take away what you got after the get take away what you got after the get take away what you got after the activity, that activity of putting in activity, that activity of putting in activity, that activity of putting in the work and the effort is valuable in the work and the effort is valuable in the work and the effort is valuable in and of itself. And so he's trying to get and of itself. And so he's trying to get and of itself. And so he's trying to get his kids, you know, away from just his kids, you know, away from just his kids, you know, away from just overly like being dependent and over overly like being dependent and over overly like being dependent and over relying, essentially outsourcing their relying, essentially outsourcing their relying, essentially outsourcing their thinking. So he says you have to be thinking. So he says you have to be thinking. So he says you have to be really careful on how much information really careful on how much information really careful on how much information you're given. There's a danger when we you're given. There's a danger when we you're given. There's a danger when we start to rely on particular technologies start to rely on particular technologies start to rely on particular technologies or on corporations that manage our or on corporations that manage our or on corporations that manage our information and track our movements. information and track our movements. information and track our movements. They're encouraging dependency. One of They're encouraging dependency. One of They're encouraging dependency. One of the things I try to teach my kids is the things I try to teach my kids is the things I try to teach my kids is when we go to a new city, I like to when we go to a new city, I like to when we go to a new city, I like to wander around and get lost and then wander around and get lost and then wander around and get lost and then explain to them how I've managed to find explain to them how I've managed to find explain to them how I've managed to find my way without a phone, without a map. I my way without a phone, without a map. I my way without a phone, without a map. I just embrace that. I said, "Look, we'll just embrace that. I said, "Look, we'll just embrace that. I said, "Look, we'll get lost, but we'll find our way." It's get lost, but we'll find our way." It's get lost, but we'll find our way." It's something that applies to film making something that applies to film making something that applies to film making very, very directly because you look at very, very directly because you look at very, very directly because you look at the plan of the set that you're the plan of the set that you're the plan of the set that you're building. You're always reconciling building. You're always reconciling building. You're always reconciling two-dimensional imagery with two-dimensional imagery with two-dimensional imagery with three-dimensional space. But again, you three-dimensional space. But again, you three-dimensional space. But again, you don't want to encourage dependency. You don't want to encourage dependency. You don't want to encourage dependency. You want to be able to find your way. I want to be able to find your way. I want to be able to find your way. I think that's just a great metaphor for think that's just a great metaphor for think that's just a great metaphor for life. So, moving ahead, he likes life. So, moving ahead, he likes life. So, moving ahead, he likes constraints. He doesn't like rules. And constraints. He doesn't like rules. And constraints. He doesn't like rules. And so, he says what you don't want as a so, he says what you don't want as a so, he says what you don't want as a filmmaker is to feel restrictive. So, filmmaker is to feel restrictive. So, filmmaker is to feel restrictive. So, one of his favorite movies is 2001, a one of his favorite movies is 2001, a one of his favorite movies is 2001, a space odyssey. It was actually produced space odyssey. It was actually produced space odyssey. It was actually produced in 1968. Created in 1968 by Stanley in 1968. Created in 1968 by Stanley in 1968. Created in 1968 by Stanley Kubri. And he's just got a great line Kubri. And he's just got a great line Kubri. And he's just got a great line about this. He says, "That's why I say about this. He says, "That's why I say about this. He says, "That's why I say 2001 is the punk rock of movies. It's 2001 is the punk rock of movies. It's 2001 is the punk rock of movies. It's not that it breaks all the rules. It's a not that it breaks all the rules. It's a not that it breaks all the rules. It's a film that doesn't acknowledge that there film that doesn't acknowledge that there film that doesn't acknowledge that there are any rules." And so, go back to that are any rules." And so, go back to that are any rules." And so, go back to that line from the Joker from earlier. The line from the Joker from earlier. The line from the Joker from earlier. The only sensible way to live in this world only sensible way to live in this world only sensible way to live in this world is without rules. One of Nolan's is without rules. One of Nolan's is without rules. One of Nolan's favorite movies. This is his favorite movies. This is his favorite movies. This is his description. One of his favorite movies. description. One of his favorite movies. description. One of his favorite movies. It's not that it breaks all the rules. It's not that it breaks all the rules. It's not that it breaks all the rules. It's a film that doesn't acknowledge It's a film that doesn't acknowledge It's a film that doesn't acknowledge that there are any rules. And you see, that there are any rules. And you see, that there are any rules. And you see, Nolan does exactly this. So, he talks Nolan does exactly this. So, he talks Nolan does exactly this. So, he talks about how he built Dunkirk. Dunkirk is a about how he built Dunkirk. Dunkirk is a about how he built Dunkirk. Dunkirk is a war movie. That is a well-worn, war movie. That is a well-worn, war movie. That is a well-worn, well-known genre, right? And so he's well-known genre, right? And so he's well-known genre, right? And so he's describing what he wanted to do. Pure describing what he wanted to do. Pure describing what he wanted to do. Pure present tense, pure climax. There would present tense, pure climax. There would present tense, pure climax. There would be no shots of generals pushing boats be no shots of generals pushing boats be no shots of generals pushing boats across a map, no Churchill, no politics. across a map, no Churchill, no politics. across a map, no Churchill, no politics. From its very first sequence, we are From its very first sequence, we are From its very first sequence, we are given the film's starkly uklitian moral given the film's starkly uklitian moral given the film's starkly uklitian moral calculus. Survive or die. What I calculus. Survive or die. What I calculus. Survive or die. What I stripped away on Dunkirk was the stripped away on Dunkirk was the stripped away on Dunkirk was the backstory. If you think about what he's backstory. If you think about what he's backstory. If you think about what he's doing here, he's describing this is a doing here, he's describing this is a doing here, he's describing this is a product that is defined by what it product that is defined by what it product that is defined by what it doesn't have. He's not he's rejecting doesn't have. He's not he's rejecting doesn't have. He's not he's rejecting that there are rules for a war film. He that there are rules for a war film. He that there are rules for a war film. He keeps going. We made a war film in which keeps going. We made a war film in which keeps going. We made a war film in which we don't use any of the visually chaotic we don't use any of the visually chaotic we don't use any of the visually chaotic devices. Lots of quick cuts, lots of devices. Lots of quick cuts, lots of devices. Lots of quick cuts, lots of activity, lots of smoke, lots of fire, activity, lots of smoke, lots of fire, activity, lots of smoke, lots of fire, bits and bobs flying everywhere that bits and bobs flying everywhere that bits and bobs flying everywhere that usually sell the idea of war to an usually sell the idea of war to an usually sell the idea of war to an audience. Dunkirk is entirely about the audience. Dunkirk is entirely about the audience. Dunkirk is entirely about the absence of those things. And then absence of those things. And then absence of those things. And then finally, the last idea I want to tell finally, the last idea I want to tell finally, the last idea I want to tell you about is this combination of you about is this combination of you about is this combination of discipline and obsession. It's the fact discipline and obsession. It's the fact discipline and obsession. It's the fact that I keep going no matter what, and I that I keep going no matter what, and I that I keep going no matter what, and I make sure that my team knows it. I'm make sure that my team knows it. I'm make sure that my team knows it. I'm known in the film business for having known in the film business for having known in the film business for having good luck with weather. That's good luck with weather. That's good luck with weather. That's inaccurate. I often have terrible luck inaccurate. I often have terrible luck inaccurate. I often have terrible luck with weather, but my philosophy is to with weather, but my philosophy is to with weather, but my philosophy is to shoot no matter what the weather is. shoot no matter what the weather is. shoot no matter what the weather is. Always shooting no matter what weather. Always shooting no matter what weather. Always shooting no matter what weather. Just keep going. Just keep going. Just keep going. Just keep going. Just keep going. Just keep going. Letting everybody on the crew and cast Letting everybody on the crew and cast Letting everybody on the crew and cast know that we're really serious about know that we're really serious about know that we're really serious about doing that. No matter what the doing that. No matter what the doing that. No matter what the conditions are, shoot in any weather. conditions are, shoot in any weather. conditions are, shoot in any weather. And that is where I'll leave it. That is And that is where I'll leave it. That is And that is where I'll leave it. That is 426 books down, 1,000 to go. And I'll 426 books down, 1,000 to go. And I'll 426 books down, 1,000 to go. And I'll talk to you again soon.