Harvard Professor: You've Been Using Your Brain Wrong Your Entire Life | Arthur Brooks

Key Takeaway

Your brain has two hemispheres designed for different problems: the left solves 'how to' questions while the right explores 'why' questions about meaning. Today's technology keeps us trapped in left-brain tasks, avoiding the deeper questions that give life purpose. Action step: Create tech-free times (first hour of morning, meals, last hour at night) to access the right hemisphere where meaning lives.

Episode Overview

Harvard professor Dr. Arthur Brooks explains why modern technology is causing a meaning crisis by keeping us trapped in the left hemisphere of our brains. The conversation explores hemispheric lateralization - how our brains process complicated problems (left) versus complex meaning questions (right). Brooks provides practical frameworks for breaking free from constant stimulation, accessing deeper purpose, and finding meaning through transcendence, service, and spiritual practice.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Harvard Professor: You've Been Using Your Brain Wrong Your Entire Life | Arthur Brooks from The School of Greatness. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Your brain is designed to ask all the big why questions on the right and then to solve how to and what questions on the left. And the reason people are depressed today is because they're avoiding the big right side questions. The whole culture of technology and hustle and grind and online presence is all about staying in the left hemisphere of the brand. That's the reason that people don't know the meaning of their lives. He's a Harvard professor, international keynote speaker, New York Times bestselling author. He spent the past two decades studying and teaching the art and science of happiness to millions of people.

Dr. Arthur Brooks in the house. house. house. Here's what's crazy about when you're living in the wrong side of your brain because you're living in the matrix. You're living in the simulation of ordinary life. ordinary life. ordinary life. Your great-grandfather never came home and said to great grandma, "I had a panic attack behind a mule today." Never. Never. Never. It's flappable. It's flappable. It's flappable. How could someone start going to the right side of their brain to find more meaning and purpose in their life rather than stress and chaos?

Yeah. So to begin with, we have two kinds of dilemmas as human beings. We have complicated dilemmas and complex dilemmas in life. Two kinds of problems. Complicated problems are the how to and what problems that we're dealing with all day long. Like how do I get from Orange County to Los Angeles, which I was dealing with this morning, right? Or how do I, you know, how do I, you know, think about the next 5 years of the school of greatness podcast, which we were talking about such an interesting complicated problem.

how to and what problems. But those aren't the problems that you care about because what were we really talking about? We were talking about your babies and your marriage and your faith. Those are complex problems which are impossible to solve. They're easy to understand, impossible to solve. You only live with them. And the reason is, believe it or not, these two types of problems are processed in different hemispheres of the brain. This is a theory called hemispheric lateralization, which a fancy way of saying the right side and the and the left side do different things.

The left side does complicated problems like how do I get to LA? How do I build a toaster? The right side says why do I love my wife? Who's God? What's the meaning of life? The mystery and the meaning. And you'll never come to a concl. And part of the reason is because that's not how your brain is designed. Your brain is designed to ask all the big why questions on the right and then to solve how to and what questions on the left. And the reason people are depressed today is because they're avoiding the big right side questions.

They're not even asking meaning questions because the whole culture of technology and hustle and grind and you know online presence is all about staying in the left hemisphere of your brain. That's the reason that people don't know the meaning of their lives. That's his whole book. How do you find the meaning of your life? It's go to the right side of your brain. How do you do that? That's the challenge. How could someone start going to the right side of their brain to find more meaning and purpose in their life rather than stress and chaos?

Yeah. So, to begin with, most people don't realize that that's the problem. That they're using their brains in the wrong way. Not the way that our brains have not been designed. And again, whether you believe in God or not, our brains have unambiguously been designed with two halves for a reason. the why half and the what and how half and and and they don't realize that the our culture or technology our economy have ruled out the why half systematically over the past two decades. So I'll give you an example of this you know that I started seeing this when I I I I was out of teaching for a long time.

I went and I ran a company for 11 years and I came back in 2019 and it was a different world. I when I left academia in 2008, academia was happier than the rest of the world. the world. the world. People were falling in love and they're making Remember college? Sure. Sure. Sure. Falling in love, making friends, exploring big ideas, out the world. Yeah. Having your mind blown. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 2019 triple the rates of depression, double the rates of anxiety. Why? Why? Why? Exactly. So I start asking them and they start talking about meaning.

It's like I don't know what I'm meant to do. I mean, I'm going through, you know, studying this, I'm doing that and I'm trying to get a good job and but my life feels meaningless and and saying my life feels meaningless is the best predictor of depression and anxiety for people under 35. 35. 35. Saying that Saying that Saying that saying that that's the predictor. So then you start talking to them and how they and figure out how they live and it turns out that life dramatically changed after about 2008.

Social media. Social media. Social media. Yeah. Well, social media, but devices, the screens, the technology radically changed it. You talk to young people, they're like, "It's like I'm living in the Matrix." the Matrix." the Matrix." You know, it's interesting you say that, not to cut you off here, I saw a video recently, speaking of being on my device, but I saw a video talking about a guy who's probably in his 40s, probably around my age with a I don't know 8 n 10 year old son having a conversation and he said, "You know what our punishment used to be growing up, you know, back in the 80s and 90s was staying inside." staying inside." staying inside." I know.

Not being able to go outside was our punishment. And the son was like, "What do you mean?" I know. Like, I want to be a punishment for for me because I want to be on my phone or computer or on like video games all day. We're living the punishment voluntarily. Here's the weird thing about it. Here's what's crazy about when you're living in the wrong side of your brain because you're living in the matrix. You're living in the simulation of ordinary life. M life. M life.

M your greatgrandfather like great grandpa house. house. house. Never came home and said to great grandma, grandma, grandma, I had a panic attack behind a mule today. today. today. It's it's laughable because his brain was working the way it's supposed to work. work. work. They might have had hard days and stress, but not this type of stress. But and and here's the weirder part. His momentto moment life was actually pretty boring because he was behind that mule. But his life wasn't boring. A lot of young people today who are living in the matrix, living in the left hemispheres of their brains, moment to moment, they have zero boredom, but their life is grindingly boring.

grindingly boring. grindingly boring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, that's the thing. There's the micro boredom and the metabor eradicated boredom from my life, but my life is actually boring. Then you know you're on the wrong side. And you'll never find meaning until you can break out of that. Cuz no one's actually bored anymore is what I'm hearing you say. cuz they can they can find, you know, all day long getting a dopamine hit on something, watching something entertaining or funny or what's next or gambling or whatever it might be, some type of hit that they don't allow for space to listen to what they're meant to do.

I have a colleague at Harvard, a guy named Dan Gilbert. You ever had Dan Gilbert on the show? I haven't, but I know that you know him, right? He's the world's leading expert on boredom. He's a visionary social psychologist. He's the best in the business. And he's done these experiments where you bring people into the lab, young people, like undergraduates, they do anything for 20 bucks, right? bucks, right? bucks, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and he makes them sit in in in a room where there's nothing on the walls, nothing to do, completely silent.

They have one choice besides sitting there quietly. Whether they have a little key fob with a button on it, and if you touch the button, you self-administer a painful electric shock. I don't know how he got through this this through the internal review board. Right. Right. That's all they can do because he wants to know whether they choose boredom or shocks. Boredom or pain. A quarter of the women shock themselves. Wow. Wow. Wow. Twothirds of the guys. It's like I can't take it anymore. Give me something to do.

Need to know men and women. Right. But altogether more than half of the people gave themselves pain over boredom. We solved the boredom problem. Your iPhone is the solution to your boredom problem. Your device. The problem is that it makes your brain work wrong because when you're never bored, you don't use what's called the default mode network set of structures in your brain. And you won't find meaning. You'll be in the wrong side of your brain all day long. And so if you wake up and the first thing is you your phone next to your bed, big mistake, and you look at your phone, then your brain is programmed to that for the rest of the day.

And so you're looking at it while you're having your coffee and breakfast. And then you go to work, which is in your guest room, which is a Zoom screen. And then you're going to date by swiping right. Right. and and and then your friends are a lot of them mostly on social media and then you do a lot of gaming because you know that's how you get your sense of fun and accomplishment and connection and connection and connection and then you're 12 hours a day online and guess what you don't have there's one thing that's a simulated life that's the matrix that movie was pro popular I I'm going to shock you years ago right 27 27 27 1998 1998 1998 199 199 199 I know right I know I know but that movie said that there was a great artificial intellig igence, a mechanical artificial intelligence that was subjugating the human race.

It was sucking energy out of them in the form of attention, keeping them in these pods and giving them a simulation of real life that was pleasant. And and the reason that there's a rebellion against that is because Neo K Reeves wants meaning. Lewis, we're in the matrix and the one thing you can't simulate is the meaning of your life. And that's what's actually happening. So, how do we start to simulate the meaning of our life? We got to live like granddad house, granddad house, granddad house, right?

right? right? No. The first thing that we need to do is get clean. The first thing that we need to do is to actually break out of the addictive cycle. Like a cleanse. Yeah. Like detox is what it comes down to. And and the problem is, you know, you can't just recommend abstinence. Cuz [snorts] you know, somebody asks you, "Dude, I drink all the time." You're going to say, "Stop drinking completely." Obviously, but you can't do that with your technology because you can't get into your bank account.

And that ship has sailed completely. Yes. Yes. Yes. Which means you need moderation. And it's a much harder thing to do. But there's a lot of data. There's a lot of research, neuroscience research that shows how you can actually moderate your device use that will revolutionize your relationship to the devices. You can solve this problem. Basically three steps. Techfree times, techree zones, and tech fasts. That's all you need to do. And the tech-free times are first hour in the morning, meal times, and last hour at night.

Yeah, that's all you need. Just tech those tech free times. Why? Because of the neural programming that's going on first hour of the day. The the the neurochemistry of what's actually happening while you eat, which is that you're looking into other people's eyes, while you're having a conversation. We're we're evolved to do that. Over the last 250,000 years, since the beginning of the plea scene, homo sapiens have actually communed with their kin while they shove pieces of yak meat into their mouths around a fire. They put it in there.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. If you see your phone on the table, it cuts off the the neuropeptide that that is occurring to bond you to others called oxytocin. You cut the oxytocin flow by looking at your phone. Literally experiments to show this. show this. show this. So what you said first hour meal time was the was the was the last hour. last hour. last hour. Last hour. Yeah. Last hour because that's when you should be communing with your babies and your wife. And also you don't want to interrupt the functioning of the pineal gland which which as you know melatonin etc.

You won't be able to wind down. You'll be stressed out. So that's the times. You said zones. Zones. There are certain zones. This is physical zones. Number one is a bedroom. No devices in the bedroom. And you don't just say, "I'm going to stop scrolling. Leave it downstairs plugged in in a closet and take a book to bed." I crazy idea. You got two things. A book and an alarm clock. Nuts, right? The challenge is I listen to the Hallow app at night. That's the challenge, man.

Puts me to sleep. And it's like in the morning, too, I listen to it. I know. And so you got to figure out a way to get around this. and and and there are ways to do it with notifications off. notifications off. notifications off. And then the second zone is there shouldn't be a classroom in the world from kindergarten through PhD that has a phone in it. I don't understand how teachers could teach today. I don't know how teachers can do it. Allowing kids to have a phone at their desk teaching when I was a kid either.

either. either. I mean, still, but it's even harder now. And I feel like there's 27 states that still don't that have completely unfettered access to telephones in public schools. It's craziness that we do this and it's a complete lack of will of imagination and you know moral will on on the part of politicians and and educators for sure. And then the last is techfast. Everybody should have I I recommend spiritual retreats to people all the time. You know Buddhist retreats, Hindu retreats, Jewish retreats. Jewish retreats.

Jewish retreats. I go on a Catholic retreat four days a year silent retreat. No no no devices. Oh it's man it's like magic. It's a total cleanse. total cleanse. total cleanse. Yeah. I've done it a few times where I've put gone on vacation and I've left the phone home. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. First time was like, "What do you do?" I I was like, "How do I get to the hotel? How do I get my car?" I was like, "I forget." forget." forget." I don't know.

I know. It's like your brain doesn't work the other day. It was such an adventure. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] I was like, I just stop at a gas station and ask for direction. How do I get here? It was like I know. I know. I know. Oh, man. 1990s again, you know? It's like, let's go. I feel like Louis and Clark. And so the other day when that big Verizon outage, you just were you aware of this? I was in New York and and I came out of a, you know, taping a show and my phone didn't work.

It was the SOS thing and I had to call an Uber and get to the New York airport and fly back to LA. How'd you do it? I And so I had to find a Wi-Fi network and actually call the Uber and there was no phone calls and there was no text and I and then I got to the airport and got on the plane and there was no Wi-Fi on the plane for 6 hours. What do you do? I had a monkey on my back.

I felt like I was like was like I was like what do I do? You have to be bored. I know. I know. I know. You have to be on a plane and read a book or book or book or I'm like a heroin addict detoxing in jail or something like sweating. So So that's really helpful. The first day is hard. The second day is easier. The third day is good. The fourth day is bliss. It's like I never want to go back. I know. I want 40 days, right?

40 days. So these are the three things to do. The first thing you do is you get clean. clean. clean. And you get clean by doing those three things. And then you start living in a new way that systematically opens up the right hemisphere of your brain. That's really what this my research is about is the six ways you can do it. And I mean again it's it's in a way it's gimmicky because there's six big ways that you can do it. But if you do this in six months you'll know the meaning of your life life life 100%.

100%. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about your book the meaning of your life which I think a lot of people are struggling to figure out these days. And I'm curious because you are such a devout what you've been 45 years you've been allin on Catholicism. Yeah. Right. 45 years. Yeah. I'm practically a cradle Catholic, right? Because I'm 61. But yeah, so people can do the math, right? And so you've been doing this for a long time. All in. You go to mass every morning, 6 a.m.

or almost every morning. You know, maybe once in a while you miss or something, but you're like in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you're like best friends with Daly Lama. Lama. Lama. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And other spiritual leaders. And you actually invited me to go. I know. I wanted you to go. Next time we go, please. And so, how do you navigate being allin as a Catholic, believing what you believe, but being very close to other spiritual leaders of other faiths that don't believe what you believe at all?

How do you co-ingle, you co-ingle, you co-ingle, find connection and not judge others beliefs but also be close with them and find fulfillment and meaning from those relationships and those spiritual practices as well which are different or maybe aren't in alignment with the Catholic faith. Yeah. So Yeah. So Yeah. So it's one thing to think that you're right. It's something else to think that somebody else is wrong. And and we want to solve every problem. The leftbrain solution is always let me figure it out. And [snorts] once I figured it out, then I know that this is right and everything else is wrong.

I have a right brain uh orientation toward my faith, which is I believe that this is what God wants for me. I don't know what God wants for others. I don't know. And I can't know. I believe that people that God puts people in my life for a reason. I believe that you and I met for a reason. We met at a thing in Idaho. It was awesome. I'm like, "Oh man, I feel like I've known this guy for years the first time I met you." There's a reason [clears throat] that you meet people that people are actually put into your life.

And and for you to adjudicate that on the basis of whatever beliefs that you have, that's hubris a lot of the time. You know, it's God put you here for a reason to for me to learn and grow. And the Daly Lama, boy, oh boy. He told me, "I want you to be a better Catholic." Really, Really, Really, I want you to be a better Catholic. Is what he said. Really? because he believes that that's God's will for my life. That's what he actually believes. And I learned so much, you know, from my Hindu teachers, from my Jewish teachers, from my Muslim teachers, people that I've talked to that have made me so much stronger in my own faith.

I believe my faith is what God wants for me. I don't know what's right. I don't know. I just know that I believe that this is right for me. And I'm not a universalist, you know, good. I mean, I want everybody to be Catholic. I want everybody to go to mass with me. Absolutely. That's the world that I want. But that's not the world that I find. find. find. And I believe that there's a reason that I'm finding the world that I am. But isn't part of the Catholic faith to preach the gospel and and invite and not recruit but convert others to Catholicism to the faith?

Yes. And there's different ways to do that. There's different ways to be a missionary. Uh one good way to be a missionary like I I teach at, you know, Harvard University, which is not known as a big Catholic institution. No. Right. But Boston is, isn't it? Kind of. Except, you know, it's the Northeast. It's it's post-Christian, man. man. man. The way that I actually I bring people closer, I believe, to my faith is by how I live my life and the excellence that I bring to things.

But is that is that enough? Just being a good person. good person. good person. I think that that opens the door because people will see there's two things to do. Be impeccable and great at what you do and have people know that you have a strong belief. strong belief. strong belief. That's really important. So people watching this are like Lewis is on a spiritual journey spiritual journey spiritual journey and he's going to Catholic mass and he's unbel he's the literally the best in the world at what he does.

That's missionary work right there. That's the mission field, right? I mean it's like it's a Mormon missionary told me this one time. A guy who worked for at the Rand Corporation. I was a military operations research analyst early early on in my career. I was doing math modeling for the Air Force. And this guy was an old school applied mathematician. He was a Mormon and uh Latter Day Saint and he told me about his mission in in in France. I said, "You're a missionary in France." Cuz they all go on a mission, right?

Two years. Two years. Two years. Yeah. Yeah. And and I said, "How many people do you convert?" He says, "Precious for you." And there's a lot of the French, you know. Yeah. And he doesn't speak the language. He has to learn the language while he's there. there. there. Yeah. And and and and he said I said, "So, how did you you know "So, how did you you know maintain a good attitude about it?" And he said, "I would say, 'Lord, have him not shut the door all the way." Cuz he figured out that his job was getting the door open an inch.

And his beliefs were that God would do the rest. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, here's the thing. People, you meet people at different points in their own journey. You're at a different point in your journey. I'm at a different point in your journey. A lot of people watching us are at different points in their journey. And all we can ask them is to not close the door completely, to open the door one inch. And if we believe what we say we believe about God and his goodness, God will do what he's supposed to do in their lives.

Our job is to not close the door. And if you go in and you say, "Repent or die," the door's closing. Right? That's going to close the door, not open the door. Your excellence will open the door. There's nothing that frustrates me more than when things don't move with speed. And when it comes to building a strong daily routine for your life, the tools that you rely on at home should make things run more smoothly without interruptions. And that's the thinking behind T-Mobile's 5G home internet.

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How do you navigate that world? Well, part of that is that there's a kind of a there's a fundamentalist version of that that a lot of people learn in the United States, which is literally if you're not this dun then this, right? this, right? this, right? But the truth is that Catholics in particular, particular, particular, they don't believe that. I mean there's a lot we we believe that there's a lot a lot of people going to heaven who are not not not Catholics or even Christians on the contrary they have a different set of experiences from different parts of the world and they're implicitly baptized effectively and they have a lot to teach us us us you know what that says is that if you were raised as a Catholic then that the standard is different for you the obligation is different for you the the woe be unto you if you're not living up to it to it to it right right right but that the Daly Lama has a, you know, has there's a God had a different plan in the Daly Lama's life and there's a there's a different trajectory for what he believes.

And so I I think that it's it's fair to say that there's a lot of ways to interpret that and it doesn't have to be literal. Do you think it's possible for someone to find meaning without having some type of faith or belief in God? Yes, I do. And that's really comes from this idea of transcendence, which is one of the six ways of finding the meaning of your life is transcending yourself. My path isn't the only path to meaning. It it it isn't. Now, religion is really, really good for this.

Yes, spirituality is really, really good for finding meaning. But what you really want is to transcend yourself cuz you know, left to your devices, you're going to be in the psycho drama. Me, me, me, me, my job, my car, my money, my so tedious, Lewis, it's so boring. But, but mother nature wants you to be the star of your psycho drama. I mean, think of all the dreams you had last night. You were the star in every one. Yeah. It's like ah and and one of the great truths of that we find in all of the experiments in social psychology.

If I can get you to think about others and stand in awe of something bigger than yourself, you will find meaning. Why? Because that's what illuminates activity in the right hemisphere of the brain. You'll start using your brain in a more meaningful way. There's two ways to do that. One is to stand in awe of something greater. Our mutual friend Brian Holidayiday, right? He talks about stoic philosophy. That's a great way to actually be looking down at or looking standing in awe. Uh walking in nature before dawn.

The Hindus call that the Brahma Mhorta which means the creator's time in Sanskrit without devices. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let the sun come up as you walk to to sort of aa meditation practice to listen to the fugues of Johan Sebastian Bach to do what you need to do to stand in awe of something that's not just my little psycho drama. Right. The other way is to transcend yourself by serving serving other people. It's one of the weirdest things is that we always want to serve ourselves, but when we're induced to serve other people, then meaning meaning pours into the vessel that is your life so much.

so much. so much. And you've told me about this. I mean, you've been doing this. People watching the show, they don't know all the service stuff that you're actually engaged in. engaged in. engaged in. And you think, well, Louis House, what a great guy. Truly, truly is true. But but it's also you need it. You actually need it to feel fully alive. alive. alive. I'm every day I wake up and I just say, "Thank you, God. Thank you, God." And I really reflect on the beauty, the abundance, the relationships, the health, health, health, the opportunities because they weren't always there.

You know, there was times when I didn't have those things. I really suffered for years and decades. I had an internal suffering because I was thinking of self so much, right? right? right? Oh, it'll make you suffer, baby. Suffering. Why me? Why this? Why that person? Why am I experiencing this? Why me? Me me me me me me me me me. me me me me me me. Right. No. Right. No. Right. No. And I had a big wakeup call around 30 where I was like, man, I am a selfish ego maniac.

You know, I wasn't really I was still a happy. I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't. But like to myself, I was like, I'm beating myself up constantly, focusing on myself. Sure, I was still giving and adding value to the world. I wasn't and I was like loving and happy and joyful outwardly, but inwardly I know know know I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. No, no. because you're doing something that's so this is this is a a distinction that William James the father of psychology in 1890 he called the mi self versus the eye self human beings are you know what the the homo sapien advantage neurokcognitively is the exist is existence and size of the prefrontal cortex that's the bumper of tissue behind your forehead that's 30% of your brain by weight that is the supercomputer of the ages there's you know AI is never going to come close to that it just isn't I mean people who say that it's going to become more human The prefrontal cortex does amazing things.

Among other things, it allows you to be two people and time travel. Isn't it fascinating? Oh, it's amazing. So, you go, you think about, you know, I did that thing and I feel I really regret it and what if it had turned out differently than the present would be different. You're practicing to be better in the future. Yes. Yes. Yes. By time travel, I think I'm going to do this tomorrow, but maybe I'll do this. Maybe I'll do this. You know, you and I were talking about all the cool things that are happening in your business and five different things that could happen in your business.

We were time traveling 5 years into Louis House. Exactly. And then we come back to the present and say which one of the paths do we want to take? That's time travel. It's amazing how that works. We also can think about me looking out or me looking in to understand myself. William James said the more time you spend in the me self looking in, the less happy you're going to be. And the more time that you spend in the I self, you need both because you got to know what you're doing in the world and what's going on, but you also have to understand your place in the world.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So you need both. The problem is that mother nature wants you to think me me. Happiness comes by looking out at the world. I had this this really interesting experience with this guy who did um uh phys physical therapy for me because my back hurts a lot. My that's wear and tear, man. That's that's like kids when you're 61, you'll understand. And and but he's the a beautiful person and and he was a loving person. Physical therapists are funny because you notice that the best ones, they're full of love.

love. love. Sure. Sure. Sure. And that's their actual superren, okay? okay? okay? They want to know you. They want to heal you is what it comes down to. And this guy was a classic. He did he did um acupuncture and physical therapy. And he was really helping me with my backs a lot. I said, you know, you have you have weird you have crazy gifts and you know, how did you get here? He's a young guy. He's your age. And and he said, oh, it's a long path.

I said, tell me more because now I'm a behavioral scientist. I want to know. Right. Yeah. He says, "Yeah, no, I used to be a fitness influencer." fitness influencer." fitness influencer." Really? Really? Really? I was selling my body. I was selling pictures of myself, my shirt off. Yeah. Uh diet plans, exercise routines, etc. And he said, "I realized I was just completely I was miserable." He said, "I hadn't eaten what I wanted to eat for 10 years." years." years." Chicken and rice every day. Because you got to He's trying to stay at sub 10 body fat.

So hard. So hard. So hard. Uh-huh. It's so hard. Under Yeah. 10% body fat. Either you got weird genetics or you're unhappy. Yeah. I mean, I got weird genetics, right? You train hard. And then I could stay at seven, but that's because of my genetics, not because I'm making myself miserable. Because nobody wants me to take my shirt off on the internet. So, you should go viral. Put it on. Anyway, so human did it. It exploded the internet. I know. I know. He broke the internet, but I know.

But uh somebody took a picture of him and he allowed it to be posted. But probably I don't know. But but you know he said that he realized that he was thinking about himself too much. He needed to fix it. So he's a smart guy. smart guy. smart guy. So he the first thing he did is he's got rid of his social media accounts. Step two is he enrolled in physical therapy school so he could serve others, learn something new. The third thing he did was this is going to blow your mind.

He took every mirror out of his house. I love that. Every mirror gone. God, I was just thinking the other day about how mirrors, that invention of mirror has probably ruined probably ruined probably ruined awful awful awful human psychology. human psychology. human psychology. I know because it basically it torquked myself. myself. myself. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then and then and then he showered in the dark for a year. So he couldn't see his abs. You didn't see the water rushing down. It was like, "Look at my abs." Yeah.

But he couldn't see it because he was so attuned to criticizing himself and belittling himself, belittling himself, belittling himself, shaming himself, judging What is this little fat? I got to eat you more. I got to whatever. Yeah, to I got to whatever. Yeah, the me self does this to you. It makes you crazy. It makes you completely nuts. So the whole point is that you need to look out more. Look at that's self-trcendence. Standing in awe, serving others puts you into the eye self and you find the meaning of your life because your brain works right.

So this comes from the philosophy, the theology, the neuroscience. It all works together. Yes. together. Yes. together. Yes. You want to find the meaning of life, stop looking at yourself. It's so true, man. around 29. When I was 29, so 13 years ago, I guess almost 14 years ago, years ago, years ago, I I'd gotten off my sister's couch where I was like suffering and broke and had no purpose. I started building a business. I started pursuing these things. And things. And things. And five, six years later, I'm 28, 29, 30 and I make my first million dollars and I'm building a little personal brand and I have some influence and I'm like making a name for myself in this online marketing world marketing world marketing world and I feel like I'm the most miserable I am after about five, six years of this because I was like so focused on me and more and more and more and well there's also another error that people make that that really hurts their search for training and it's very common.

It's not it's not just you never cast dispersions for people making this error. This is what I say on my first day of class. I teach MBA students at the Harvard Business School. They want to be unbelievably successful and they're going to be right. They want to make millions of dollars. They want to raise a bunch of money. They want to sell companies. All this they want to be masters of the universe. They want to be rich. And here's what they think. If I get the money, if I get the power, if I get the fame, then I'll be happy.

Right? And I say this on the first day of class and it makes them panic and you're going to see why. Because you're a stver par excellence. excellence. excellence. I say go for the happiness and I'm going to teach you how and then you'll be successful enough successful enough successful enough and the rest doesn't matter. But you know what makes them panic? What? What? What? Enough. Enough. Enough. Cuz at the Harvard Business School, there's no such thing as enough. And for all the stvers who look why do you watch the school of greatness?

You want more. You want because there's not enough. And and I admire strivvers. admire strivvers. I admire strivvers. But this is the key thing. And this is what you were experiencing. If you think that the money and the power and the honor, but mostly the money for what you were doing with direct marketing, right, and all the stuff that you were doing, you thought that that would bring you that you would arrive at some level. That first million dollars would help you arrive at some level of happiness, some level of peace.

But now look at your life. Your life is full of love. You have a friendship with God. You have a you have a you're you're living with your guru. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got your babies. It's crazy, man. We're the future you. That's that's really the the source of happiness and makes you successful enough. enough. enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing. That's what people need to actually focus on and that's what will happen when you take the mirrors out of your life. Yeah. Whether that's literal mirrors or you know other metaphoric mirrors like notifications on Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. because you know or view counts or whatever it might be because I remember reflecting at this time I had a kind of a big breakthrough and of like maybe over a three to six month window of the my life during that time where I had it all all all but all my relationships were falling apart business relationships it was with a girlfriend that was falling apart friendships like things were falling apart and I was at the center of all those. those. those. Yeah. So in the beginning I'm like this person's doing this and she did this and he did and they don't and then I go oh but it's all happening I'm at the center I'm the common denominator of all the me self was saying something is happening so that I'm not being loved enough the eye self says I need to go love more love more love more and that's what I started doing I said I I went through my own healing journey around that time I started opening up about the different things that I was going through from childhood sexual abuse and other things that I've talked about times yeah very public And I realized I need to serve more.

I was like I felt my first big calling was like you've got to serve those that can't serve themselves. And I thought about what is something that's meaningful for me. I struggled in school my entire life. I struggled at learning sitting in a classroom reading textbooks. It didn't work well for how I Are you dyslexic? Very. Yeah. Yeah. And I was always in the bottom of my class. I was always like And they used to rank us on our grade cards back in the day. I don't know if they still do it.

So I was always in the bottom four from middle school through high school and I just struggled and I just felt like man I'm never going to be smart enough. enough. enough. You felt stupid, right? Very stupid every day. Not enough. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. The the way I learned was through sports, through mentors, through coaches and because you're super athletic. Yeah. I mean professional athlete. I leaned into that and I was like, "Okay, I can find value here." But I I was like, I need to start serving.

What is the thing that I care about? I care about education and I care about kids. Yeah, cuz I struggled as a kid. So I said, I need to find ways to serve children to have education. And that's something I did. I launched my first school with an organization called Pence the Promise. the Promise. the Promise. It was 14 years ago. And I don't know how many schools I've built over the last 14 years and brought others to serve and travel the world in these communities and seeing the joy of these children having a place to go to learn.

to learn. to learn. At least I had a school, you know, even though I didn't feel like it worked well for me, I had somewhere to go. Yeah. so many kids that don't have that and I'm it's something I'm doing through this mission now. Instead of just selling something to make money, I was like, how can I build something that serves? serves? serves? How can I do both? And yeah. Yeah. And it was it's intensely satisfying. satisfying. satisfying. Intensely Intensely Intensely because it it just jams you into the self.

self. self. Yes. Yes. Yes. You're loving outwardly constantly. constantly. constantly. Notwithstanding anything that comes back. back. back. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Without expectation of return. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're built to do. Serving. The more I think about that, how can I continue to serve at the highest level? Use my gifts and talents and serve people at the highest level. It's the most rewarding feeling. I know. I know. It's the most rewarding feeling. That's that's transcendence. It that's what people want. That's what they that's what they need.

But but but but mother nature and the current environment and the culture and the technology technology technology will force you away from that. And and that's why we need to live in a very proposive way. We need to live in an entrepreneurial way where we're living the startup of our own lives doing something that you know people people are very very and very positively interested in a lot of content on the internet that that en urges them to do uncomfortable hard things right I mean all the bro podcasts are out there like grind it out harder work harder and and tons of dudes are like yeah give that to me.

I mean, it's interesting because Jordan Peterson, my friend Jordan Peterson, I mean, he's very very very successful giving hard advice. Yes. Giving really hard advice. And I understand why because people have this this sense that there's something bigger. There's something better. They're looking for meaning. And and so they're they're they're willing to walk towards something that's incredibly uncomfortable. By the way, this is a second avenue toward meaning is understanding suffering. do hard things is doing hard things but understanding suffering suffering suffering because when you understand the way that suffering actually works and you're no longer resisting it you will find meaning your brain will work right is the bottom line and that's what a lot of people are grasping toward a lot of young people on the internet are grasping it at this this kind of thing and that's the kind of thing that we're talking about here that that when you're doing something that's an uncomfortable thing it's a morally uncomfortable thing it's an emotionally uncomfortable thing it's a spiritually uncomfortable thing or yeah, it's a cold plunge or whatever, right?

You're doing this thing. So, you're exploring the space. You're transcending yourself. You're exploring the space of actually non-resistance towards suffering. suffering. suffering. Yes. Yes. Yes. And and you're saying, "I don't know why I feel better because the right hemisphere of your brain is illuminated and you're and you're and you're and you have an understanding, an incoate understanding, a wordless, ineffable understanding of the meaning of your life." I mean, you work with a lot of high achievers. I feel like a lot of people that watch and listen to this show, they're consciously trying to achieve something greater in their life.

That's why they're here. And I love this kind of like speech that I heard Jim Carrey give. I think it was at the Golden Globes one year where he said, you know, I'm twotime Golden Globe winner Jim Carrey. And if I can become three-time Golden Globe winner Jim Carrey, then I'll be enough. It's like this kind of anecdote of like I know I know I know how many how many how many He was making a joke and people laughed. They laughed. Yeah. But it's like how you know what I'm talking about.

talking about. talking about. I do. I do. I know. is very he's a very profound guy. profound guy. profound guy. God, I want to interview him so bad. He's a very profound. I bet he Hey, Jim, come on the show. I know. I want to interview him so bad. I think it'd be fascinating. But I love his thought process around around that. And I'm sure he struggled many years cuz he never maybe didn't feel enough for a long time, but I think he's talked openly I think he's talked openly about his struggles actually.

Yeah. And there was another interview he did where he said he was going to retire a few years ago and someone said, "No, you can't retire. Like you're too talented." The the journalist was saying like, "Please don't retire." And he goes, "I'm going to say something that most celebrities will never admit to." And he said, "I've done enough. I have enough. I [snorts] am enough." And most celebrities will won't admit to that. that. that. Right Right Right now, easy for him to say at his age and his career and his But it's not, you know, it just gets harder and harder.

It just gets harder and harder. and harder. and harder. That need for validation, that need for being in the game, being talked about. The more famous you are, the more famous you need to be. Gosh, Gosh, Gosh, the richer you are, the richer you need to be. That's just and the reason is because you're you're on the hedonic treadmill. There isn't enough. There isn't enough in the world. It's said these rewards these worldly rewards. This is what s St. Thomas Aquinas he called the world's idols.

A and the world's idols are the things that beguile you and they have a kind of a divine divine divine feel to them but they lead you away from what you truly want which is the mission and meaning of your life. They lead you away from it because they look like they're going to bring you to it, but they actually don't. So, they're like drinking salt water. The more that you drink, the thirstier you get. And and and actually, every single one of the all the stvers watching us right now and you and me, there's one that beguiles us more than the others.

And if you have information, if you have knowledge about which is your idol, you got power. You want You want to play What's my idol? What's your idol? Yeah. No, I want to play with you. What's your idol? So, let's find out. Let's find out. So kids, you can play along at home. I play my idol. So I play this game with my students because if they know their idol, they have power. Your idol is what will always lead you astray. And when you look back to the times of your life where you suffered the most, it's because you were beguiled by that idol the most.

the most. the most. And it's always one of four things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Money, power, pleasure, or honor. And honor means like internet famous or something. Yeah. Prestige, admiration admiration admiration of the right people or admiration of lots of people. Success addicted people who get famous when they're young. They seek the admiration of strangers. That's the honor idol. And we can talk about that one because that one's super dangerous. dangerous. dangerous. What was the third one? Pleasure. Pleasure. Pleasure. Pleasure. Money. Pleasure. Money. Power. Pleasure. Honor.

Those are the four. Now this comes from Aristotle via Thomas Aquinus in 1265 and his suma theologia. He was an unbelievably a droid behavioral scientist way before his time. And all this stuff that I'm talking about here has been completely validated by modern neuroscience and behavioral science. Okay? But it was the 13th century. It's unbelievable. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. The school of greatness is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. Now, I'm a big fan of Airbnb. And whether you travel a little or a lot, time away always brings a fresh perspective.

And for us, that often means visiting family, taking a short trip to recharge, or just heading somewhere new for a few days. And every time we leave, I notice the same thing is that our home sits there completely empty. And that's why we've started hosting all of our properties on Airbnb while we're away. It's a practical way to make use of the space instead of just having it sit there alone by itself. And at the same time, it gives travelers a place to create their own memorable experience in our city.

From our experience, hosting has always been easy and straightforward. It's not something that takes over your life. It's simply a smart way to earn a little extra income while you're already traveling. And when you're gone, instead of just leaving your place empty, you can host your home on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host. airbnb.com/host. airbnb.com/host. Okay, so here's how it works, Louis. Here's how. Here's how. Here's how. What's my idol? So, what I'm going to do is I'm not going to ask you what it is.

I'm going to ask you what it's not. Okay, before we do that, what is the idol of most Harvard Business School students coming in? What is most of their is there? They think it's money and it isn't. What is it? We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Gosh. So, we're going to take the idols away. And one of the reasons is because this is an elimination technique that's the most accurate way for you to figure out all kinds of things in life. This is cognitively a very powerful technique for finding something.

So, I want you to look at these things and I want you to get rid of one you care about the least, which doesn't mean you don't have it. What it means is what it means is you have the population average, which you know, you take away money for example, example, example, you're the population average in the United States. That's pretty darn good. M M M but the problem is this. You're not extraordinary in it, which means it sucks if it's your idol. Gosh. Gosh. Gosh.

Okay. So, money, power, pleasure, fame. Which one do you got to get rid of first? first? first? I I I Which one do you care about the least? What if you feel like you have all four? Of course you do have all four inside because you're Mr. Big and of course you care about all four of them. But which one would you could you kick away most easily? most easily? most easily? I can make a prediction for you already. What's not your idol? Um, power means influence over other people.

I guess power is going to be the one because I'd rather have honor than I don't want to look with your honor is kind of power where it's No, no, no, no. It's respect. It's like, oh, oh, oh, power is influence over other people. So, they do what you want. Now, how do I know that about you? Because you're highly intelligent. You'd be a CEO of a big company right now now now and you're not. You're running an enterprise that's an idea enterprise. It's not in a skeleton crew.

I mean, there's a bunch of people around us right now that are doing good work, but the whole point is you'd have a big company. You'd be running a big public company, and you'd be the chairman and CEO. And Louis House could absolutely have that gig. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If power were the thing. Okay, good. So, you got three left. Money, pleasure. I already know what I already know. My What's the Well, let's let's eliminate a little bit more. Okay. Which one do you get rid of next?

It gets harder. I feel like, like, like, gosh, this is interesting because I was just telling Martha last night, I go, you know, I could live in a two-bedroom apartment and be fine. Yeah. You know, and like it's actually not money. Yeah. I was like, you're not I mean, money is great, but I like having it like as a security, I guess, but I don't see the thing I don't buy stuff. buy stuff. buy stuff. Security isn't security isn't a money idol. Security is a pleasure idol.

Yeah. Okay. What it is is if you and and one of the things people my age they'll say well I don't I'm not motivated by pleasure. How often do you ch you you check your stock portfolio every day? every day? every day? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't every day. And so comfort, security, and feeling good are all the same idol. That's interesting because money I know it's not I mean listen [clears throat] I'm a driven business entrepreneur that needs to make money to pay for people's lives and my livelihood but I turn down money all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the reason I know it's not my because I get sponsorship and deal offers all the time to pay me and I'm like no I don't want to make money to do that. I get it. And so for me it doesn't mean I don't want lots of it but I want to do it the right way. I get it. And it's nice. It's nice. It's nice. But the two-bedroom apartment wasn't wasn't wasn't I was living the dream in a two-bedroom apartment. apartment. apartment.

It wasn't a lot worse than a huge house. I was living the dream and I had less things to manage. Yeah. You Yeah. You Yeah. You know, I'm grateful for my home, but I was still living the dream. Okay, we've got number two is gone. Now it gets real hard cuz there's So, what does pleasure mean versus honest? honest? honest? Pleasure means there's three things that pleasure could be. Number one is feeling good. Feeling good. Number two is comfort. Number three is security. That's the pleasure idol.

And then fame is there are very many different kinds of fame. One is you know the internet famous which famous which famous which there which by the way you are. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Um there is prestige in the in the eyes of the right people and there's the admiration of people. Those are different kinds of fame but they're all the same model. And so what's the difference between pleasure and honor? Pleasure and honor is honor is the reflection of other people's feelings toward you. Uh-huh. Pleasure is how you feel, [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] man.

[sighs] So, you got to get rid of that. Doesn't mean I know you want both. Yeah. I want to feel good and I want and you want other people to you want other people's feelings about you. You care about other people. Yeah. Yeah. I want to feel like Yeah. So, you got to get rid of one of them. What really is motivating you more? And again, this is not that this is not to live a a life of vice and no, this just means you're trying to find what actually would lead you astray.

the one that I care about the most. Like most. Like most. Like not the one that actually kind of the one that drives you a little bit more. The one that I want more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or the one that I want to that's less holding me out. Um I feel like this takes work. I know. Gosh. Yeah. I mean, I might need to dive deeper on this because they're in some ways I'm working more and more to care less what people think about me. That's why I'm taking you know the reason, right?

reason, right? reason, right? Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Is because it's your idol. Maybe that's probably that's probably it. In the last four years, I have done so much work and maybe I talked about this with you when we were at the mastermind where I've had to create so many boundaries with influential people, billionaires, celebrities, or just everyday people that want things or that expect something from me, right? right? right? They expect me to be the good guy that always delivers, that's like willing to do whatever it takes to help them.

Yeah. The fact that you're concerned Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. indicates that you're self-aware. But that is the tendency. Yes. Yes. Yes. Here's the deal. When you were a kid, when you were a kid, you learned something about yourself. Yeah. Which is that you got attention and affection when you did stuff. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. And you felt crummy about yourself when you didn't when you weren't able to do things. Why? Because you were you had a a learning disability which made it hard for you to do things.

It made you feel crummy about yourself. Yes. Yes. Yes. But then when you achieved, especially as an athlete, that adults gave you attention and and affection. And what you learned from that is that love is earned. You learned that love is earned. That that's actually wrong. By the way, Martha doesn't love you because of what you give her. She loves you as a grace. Love is a free gift freely given. It is. The problem is that when you wire that in, when you have the programming as a child that love is earned, you will become a success machine.

Yes. And the success machine has to understand whether or not it's functioning. And how do you know it's functioning? Because of points on the board. And the points on the board comes from the affection of strangers and the admiration of other people and the and and and the viewer numbers and the bank account. account. account. That's an honor idol. Yeah. So in the last few years, I've really worked to knock that down. Yeah, for sure. And you're working on it's important. it's important. it's important. And it's going to be a lifelong journey, I'm sure.

But it's it was and it was scary the moment I started to say I need to create boundaries with all these people right and get on the phone and say you're not a good friend and no I'm not going to do this for you and take the reactions and know that they might talk bad about me and know that they have a different viewpoint of me and like the grieving the loss of that like clinging on to that idol was scary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the la for two three years ago.

Yeah. And so I don't feel it as much. Like sure I want to like look good in the eyes of other people, but not at the detriment of my own happiness. Right. And here's the point. That's great. great. great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The point is in your weak moments, you'll snap back into the honor idol. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. Well, I mean, there's We're all weak. You know, it's not like you're going to go on a bend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, of that you're not going to become a monster because you're not a monster.

But the whole point is that self-nowledge is critically important. Here's mine. Here's mine. Here's mine. Yes. Yes. Yes. I would get rid of power. I was a CEO. I the thing I hated most about being a CEO is having power over other people. Okay? When people called me boss, it bummed me out. out. out. And and the reason is because I hate people having power over me. You always admire the people who have your idol. your idol. your idol. And so if you look at a politician who kind of admires demagogic tyrannical desperates in other countries, it's because that's what he wants, right?

You always admire if you know somebody who admires billionaires wants to be a billionaire. Yes. That's what it admires the richness in in their lives. Okay. Power. I don't even like it, let alone have it as an idol. Okay. Okay. Okay. Number two is money. So, we have the same I haven't had it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Number three, I would get rid of I would get rid of pleasure cuz I actually I'm a pretty austere guy. Comfort is not important to me. I get up before dawn every single day, including Sundays.

I work out every day. I bring pain. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. I'm in that place, too. My problem is the same as yours, man. Really? Really? Really? I mean, I want the admiration of strangers. Love is earned. I got the attention of adults when I played the French horn as a little kid. That was when I felt special. That's when I felt like and then teacher and so the result is that I'm a success addict. addict. addict. And you know, I'm I'm a self-objectifying success addict.

And the result is that you know the my worst moments Lewis are when I I I I spent the 14th hour at the office looking for the admiration of strangers as opposed to the first hour with my kids when they were little and they grew up. I wanted to be special more than I wanted to be happy. Wow. Wow. Wow. And and and that's my weakness. And consciousness of this has allowed me to take my life back. And when I take my life back, I understand what the real meaning of my life actually is.

That's why everybody needs to play this game. What is the real meaning of your life? The real meaning of my life is to love and be loved. The meaning of my life is to lift people up and bring them together in bonds of happiness and love using the gifts that I've been given, which is science and ideas. That's what it is. it is. it is. But I can't do that when I'm just trying to get applause. It's like, why do so many smart, intelligent people sabotage their own happiness?

because they're in well there's a couple of different things going on. One is they'll they'll leave so they'll leave their happiness on the table and then there's some that will actually sabotage their own happiness and those are two different problems. different problems. different problems. Number one, Number one, Number one, many stvers will will forego happiness because they actually know what they need. I was I was interviewing this woman uh in my research who's a billionaire. I mean in finance, iconic in the industry, my age at the time.

I was in my 50s at the time and and and she was confessing to me that she was horribly unhappy. She said, "I got everything I wanted, but I'm unhappy." And I said, "Well, talk to me, sister." sister." sister." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And and she says, "Well, my my husband and I were like roommates. Um I'm I'm cordial with my adult kids, you know. Um I think my my employees are afraid of me, you know. Um I'm not taking care of myself the way I should.

I drink too much. I'm not going to the gym. I used to be religious when I was a child and it gave me so much joy, but I never even practiced my faith. What should I do, professor? And I'm like, you need a Harvard professor to tell you, you just gave yourself your own prescription. I mean, go away with your husband, get to know your kids, step back from your firm, go to AA, go back to church, do your thing. And she said, I know, I know, I know, I know.

I said, so why not? And she thought about it and she said, she said, she said, because I've always chosen to be special rather than happy. See, here's the here's the calculus. Any loser can have love relationships, but not everybody can build a company. The people will homo sapiens, we're weird, dude. We will we will choose specialness over happiness all day long. Can you be special and happy at the same time? time? time? Of course. Except there are sacrifices in your specialness that you need to do what every other person can do because we are built to love each other.

We are built to love our kids. We are built to to to to serve our marriages. We're built to do that. And that's it's not special because everybody can do it. And here's the thing. [snorts] Most people would look at you and say, "Man, if I had Louis Houses's money and prestige, then I would actually be happy. But I can't get it. So, okay, I guess I'll do this dumb thing. I'll just take my kid to the park and play ball." That's the secret. secret. secret.

And because they feel like they can't be special, then they choose the happiness. And they have a good life. But here's the thing. probably 80 to 90% of the world has the ability to be happy because they're not special. And yet they're still not choosing how to be happy. Yeah. They're still not leaning into this is the life that I have. I have a good life, but I'm still not happy because I'm missing the special. So they have it and they still diminish it because it because it because they don't have what they Well, they're unsatisfied with what they actually have.

And so they want that thing and they don't get that thing. they're frustrated about that thing and they're also all missing the opportunity to do the things they need to do and that's that's there's a lot of desperation that goes into that. I wind up talking about that an awful lot in just my general work on the science of happiness. happiness. happiness. Yes. Yes. Yes. But but it's but but when it comes to the struggle to striving and this paradox of striving this is your whole audience.

Want to know why? Because your show is not called the school of good enough. No, it's not the school of average. It's not the school of okay, the school of awesome kind of, you know, it's the school of greatness. And I really admire that. that. that. But you can't sacrifice the love in your life on the altar of what you're trying to do in the world's eyes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's That's That's because that's not greatness. That's not greatness. If you're if you're special, Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. but you have no great relationships, I don't think that's greatness. Yeah. If you're pursuing money, power, pleasure, and fame, there's a problem, per se. I mean, there's nothing wrong with those things, but they should lead you to what you should truly want, which is your faith, your family, your friends, and work that serves. Faith, family, friends, and work that serves, those will bring authentic happiness. happiness. happiness. Yeah. And and if you It sounds like what I'm hearing you say, if you focus on your faith, your family, your friends, and work that serves, it may lead you to more money, more power, more power, more power, more I got the data.

It will actually more you know honor you'll be successful. It'll be a byproduct, byproduct, byproduct, right, right, right, of you doing that. And then it'll be your responsibility to not give too much emphasis on that. You know, it'll be the, you know, um, Ryan Holidayiday, Marcus Aurelius, you needing someone to say you're just a man, right? right? right? Like reminding you you're just a man. That's why you get married. You're just a man, right? Even when you're this like god or in your own world or something, it's like you need a reminder daily that you're just a man.

Yeah, for sure. And it's going to be taken. taken. taken. It's going to be taken away. All of it. Your life will be taken away one day. one day. one day. That's right. You and I were talking about this earlier that that you know a great CEO one time told me who had managed he was a private equity manager meaning that he bought and sold companies and he had seen the careers of thousands of CEOs. And I asked him because I was a CEO at the time, close friend.

How do I understand the end of my career as a CEO? And he said, "There's two ways. You can quit before you're ready or you can quit under some on somebody else's terms. Those are the only two doors. So his recommendation was quit before you're ready. But the whole point is things end. Here's what doesn't end. Love. Love doesn't end. You know what do you want to be doing on your last day? What do you want people to say at your funeral? Lewis House had 5 million miles on Delta Airlines.

I mean, mean, mean, that he couldn't use. Who cares? Who cares? And we all kind of know that. I mean, it's funny because, you know, that was the premise of a great George Clooney movie up in the air was he was looking for meaning and counting it in airline miles. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. And then he finally got there. He arrived in the middle of a flight, right? Like he the captain came out and sat next to him and said, "What was it like some like you got the most points in the world?" and the captain sat next to him and he's like and then it just when he looked out the window he realized how empty it was.

his new his got that George what a great actor he's got that new movie on Netflix uh Jay Kelly have you seen it it's called Jay Kelly it's phenomenal it's the same movie is up in the air he's a he's he he's a movie star playing an aging movie star star star who's looking for the ultimate role because then he'll he will have arrived there'll be enough and he sacrificed all of his his happiness and his love relationships to be special he's he chose specialness over happiness over happiness over happiness that's that's that's the premise of the movie.

It's a very very beautiful movie actually. actually. actually. Why is this drug or idol of specialness over happiness seemed to captivate most of the world? Yeah. So, and that's evolution and there's an actual exp we have an evolutionary biological explanation for this. We're born homo sapiens are not are not made to be happy. We're we're made to be special. We homo sapiens. The brain of homo sapiens is the same as it was at the beginning of the pleaene era 250,000 years ago when all of humanity lived in bands of 30 to 50 kin-based individuals.

Hierarchical kin-based groups of 30 to 50. And what do you want? You want to maintain and rise in that particular hierarchy which is like and the way that you do that is with more hunting skills etc. Why? Because you get more food and you get more mates. mates. mates. We're that simple in its way. And that is metastasized in modern society in wanting more internet followers, more Instagram followers, having a lot of likes. That's how we're actually, you know, being rewarded for dragging in a slightly bigger gazelle into the into the cave.

the cave. the cave. But that's all that explains that nilu explains so much of of our relationships. You know, for example, one of the things that we find in relationships between husbands and wives, the the reasons that marriages fail is because women are not adored by their husbands and or husbands are not admired by their wives. This is the fuel of happiness in in these traditional relationships. And so what she needs to hear because of the evolutionary biology like she has a huge commitment and investment in raising kids carries them.

I mean your wife just carried your babies for months and she's taking care of them. They die without her, right? And so the result of it is that she needs the protector who has a complete commitment to her. And how does she know the commitment? Through the adoration. And so she wants to hear, "Honey, may you fight a tiger for you with my hands." and only you, right? right? right? And what do you need to hear? That is the biggest gazelle anybody's ever dragged into this cave.

You're so big and strong, you're going to feed our family for two weeks. And that motivates all of this behavior. And we go out and risk our lives again and again and again and again. All I mean like I do 150 talks a year, public talks a year. And and the two weeks ago I was in um Columbus, Ohio, and I was where I'm from. It's great. People are awesome. Cold right now though, but yeah, it's cold, baby. 17,000 17,000 17,000 Catholic missionaries in the audience.

17,000, right? And I was I was super nervous. You want to know why? Why? Why? Why? Cuz Esther was in the front row. My wife. My wife. My wife. Cuz she was in the front row. Nervous. That was why I was nervous. Cuz I want her to admire me. All I want is my wife's admiration. wife's admiration. wife's admiration. Not the 17,000. Yeah. And so this is the the example of how the evolutionary biology man, it has teeth. And when we understand ourselves in this context, we understand all the things that we do.

This is why we go after those worldly idols is because we want to rise in the kinbased hierarchy of 30 to 50 individuals which has been exploded in the billions of people. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you know that you got power because then you don't have to be a prisoner of the of the animal impulse. You can get into the space of your moral aspiration. That's what the amazing human brain allows you to do. Speaking of marriage, you've been married for 30 34 years.

34 years. You've got a lot of great wisdom on marriage and relationships and in a time where it feels like people are struggling the most in relationships with themselves but also in intimacy with the with the with the the committed partners, right? right? right? What are the keys to having a successful happy marriage or relationship? And why do most marriages fail? Yeah. So that there's so much on that these days, but the biggest problem that we see is that your marriage is not a problem that you can solve.

Your marriage is not a leftbrain complicated problem. Your bra you're it's not it's not an algorithm and our culture has actually told us that that we should be able to solve every problem right and you know with with proper information we should be able to solve the problem and when when people conclude that when they can't solve their marriage that something is actually wrong with the relationship. So it's the approach is wrong. Your marriage is a rightbrain phenomenon. You'll never solve it. You only live in it and love in it.

That it's it's a it's a permanent st state of disequilibrium. That's what your marriage is supposed to be. My wife might be totally pissed off at me by the end of the day. I know she loves me. We will have a conflict. I know we'll have a conflict. We have 10,000 arguments 10,000 arguments 10,000 arguments and because of me, because of her, because we're human beings living in this complex relationship. The number one thing is not understanding the nature of living with another person is what it comes down to and and appreciating the complexity of that and trying to force it into this complicated problem that you can Google that you can ask Chad GPT.

You see we think that those are the things those and and yeah and this the wrong kind in other words they're dealing with the wrong kind of problem. That's number one. Number two is that the way that we've now entered into relationships is through complicated tools. tools. tools. So, you don't just meet somebody and let sparks fly a little bit. It's funny because the way that the human brain is is designed for relationships to start is kind of a four-step neurochemical process. process. process. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Number one is is attraction. Yes. And attraction is largely governed by testosterone and estrogen, sex hormones. Men and women both have both, by the way. I mean, men have both and and so do women. Men obviously have more testosterone. Women have more estrogen. And that's how you you spark, which is why no matter how emancipated and modern you are, you still want to look nice. Yes. Yes. Yes. And the reason is because that's what actually sparks in the brain of somebody that you're that you're that you want to connect to.

connect to. connect to. Interest. Interest. Interest. The second part is where it gets really complicated and and interesting, which is when the the the neurochemistry actually really starts to flow in terms of uh noradrenaline, norepinephrine, and and dopamine. And that's anticipation of reward and euphoria. So when you're kind of interested in somebody, you have this undue interest and like I think I'm gonna I think I just got a text from her. It's a text. Who cares? You asked, "Want to get dinner?" You're waiting for the next.

That's because your neurochemistry is really really hopped up. You got high levels of norepinephrine, which is a stress hormone, and and dopamine, which is anticipation of reward. Then when you're falling in love, this weird thing happens, which is that your serotonin tanks by like a third. Now, when serotonin is low in the syninnapse, that's that provokes the feeling of clinical depression. And that that that starts this process of ruminative sadness. sadness. sadness. When you're falling in love, when you're falling in love, it's actually almost indistinguishable from from clinical depression.

And the reason is because you're ruminating on the other person. That's why you'll send a a thousand stupid text messages when you don't hear from the person and you're getting digger and digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. That's because you're doing insane things because your brain is slightly insane because you're bonding the other person. You ruminate almost depressively on the other person because you're bonding to the other person because you're basically creating kin for somebody with whom you're biologically unrelated ideally. Mhm. And the last is what you want to get to is oxytocin and vasopressin which are these neuropeptides in the brain where actually you are kin and that's your person.

This person is part of your tribe. You've actually adopted somebody into your family. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. That's that's a you you and Martha were and you feel like you've been together forever. That's oxytocin is the way that that works. And you want to go one two three four. When it doesn't work, when when relationships are a skew, it's because they go in different speeds through that neurochemical cascade or somebody stops after stage two, that's when things aren't working. There's some people who go through them too fast and freak out their other partner.

These are people who have emoilia, not with an H. It's not a blood disorder. Emoilia, which is which is which is excessively quickly falling in love. This is a lot of what I teach my students, you know, is about actually how the this neurochemistry of actually how all this stuff works. You got to slow the falling in love process down. I feel like, oh yeah, you want to walk through this, not sprint and jump in, right? Yeah. It's It's It's Well, and the older you are, the slower it is.

it is. it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you you fall in love in your People in their 80s will fall in love, but when you're in your when you're 16 years old, it'll be like 4 days and you're going through the entire process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of how it works. But anyway, this is how I teach an awful lot about it. And this is a miracle. miracle. miracle. I mean, our brains are amazing on how this whole thing works. So, in modern life, the problem is that we're with technology, we're torquing this entire process.

process. process. and it's not working right. You know, I'll give you a classic example. Most dating apps allow you to curate your profile in a way that you're looking for yourself because we're so narcissistic. I want somebody who votes like me, you know, for example, and and I'm not going to say which political side it is, but one political side, 71% of people say they won't they won't date somebody who's not on that political side, man. man. man. The other side is 41%. So, wow. Use your imaginations.

Anyway, so but the whole point is that that we we we curate for compatibility, but the human brain wants complimentarity. It wants sexy difference. And and the applications what they do it's compatibility is a leftbrain solution. Complimentarity is a rightbrain phenomenon. And so all the technology is making us fall in love wrong. So, we're not I mean, if someone's been in a relationship for a few years or been married for a while and it's not working, working, working, right? right? right? How do they improve their relationship or marriage?

or marriage? or marriage? Yeah. So, I have a lot of my wife and I actually do a lot of this stuff together, but there are a lot of, you know, deep work that you can actually do, but I've got a kind of a break glass thing to think about actually, believe it or not. There's an algorithm of things that will save most relationships really. really. really. Some of it's biological and some of it's actually more in terms of learning. So number one is is believe it or not it's eye contact.

So most couples when they're on the rocks is they've stopped looking at each other in the eyes. Believe it or not that's characteristic of of relationships that have gone cold. And part of the reason is because men in a heterosexual relationship a man and a woman the man has stopped talk looking at his wife or partner when he's talking to her. to her. to her. Cuz and and the reason is cuz guys are really good at that. You and I can talk to each other and have a, you know, men when they're together, they tend to look at other stuff.

Yeah. They're like wa talking to each other deeply about things while watching a football game. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. That's called parallel play. Men have deep relationships as they're walking together towards something side by side, right? Eye contact is not as common and it's actually not as necessary because men have less oxytocin. About a third as much oxytocin. And oxytocin is pumped out when you're making eye contact. Why? Well, the reason is because women get a lot of oxytocin as they lay eyes have eye contact with their baby.

So when babies nurse, they're looking into their mother's eyes. It is powerful, man. Babies are staring at you where they're eating. You're like, like, like, I know. I know. And stare at you. It's like, stop. What are you staring at me? You're freaking me out. You know, and what they're doing is that's pumping oxytocin into mom's brain, which is really important for milk production. So So this is kind of how the the biology works. But the whole point is that women get three times as much oxytocin and that's how they bond to people more.

And when dude when you're not looking at her in the eyes when you're talking to her, you're denying her the feeling of love, man. man. man. And so the number one rule, eye contact. eye contact. eye contact. Number one rule is never say a word to her without looking at her in the eyes. When you're talking to her, you're looking at her and she'll be like, I'm happier. I don't know why. That's why. Number two, Number two, Number two, y y y abt. Always be touching.

Always be touching. If you're with each other, if you're watching TV, you're touching. If you're sitting in church, you're touching. If you're walking down the street, you're holding hands. When you when uh when when when when you're driving, she's she's got her hand on your arm. Touch touch. That's actually more important for men than it is for women because when she you know, like when you're walking down the street with her and she touch your arm. It's like that's a vasopressin palm. A man, you know?

Yeah. I know. You feel like you're you are like seven feet tall, but you know, even I feel seven feet tall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Okay. Always be touching. Always be touching. touching. touching. Number three. Number three. Number three. have more fun. Y Y Y now that's important because couples that are on the rocks, they rehearse their grievance a lot. And a lot of couples therapy is about rehearsing grievances. grievances. grievances. Talking about the past constantly, constantly constantly constantly the problem. You talk about problems. You got a problem, you go to therapy, they're going to talk about the problems.

Have more fun. Fun makes you forget problems. forget problems. forget problems. Does add more fun into your plate. Yeah. Add more fun. Wash out the dirt in the glass by pouring a gallon bucket of water into the glass. Not by looking at the dirty glass and talking about it all day. day. day. And not by stirring it up with a spoon, you know, you know, you know, pour fun into it. Right. And last but not least, pray or meditate together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The single most intimate thing that couples do together is prayer or meditate together.

And most couples never do it. I mean, I talked to Catholic couples who've been married for 60 years. You pray together. It's like, oh, that's kind of embarrassing. But you have sex, you're not praying together because praying feels more intimate. And the reason is because one flesh in terms of sex is one thing. One flesh in terms of the right hemispheres of your brain, that's you're looking into the soul, man. Gosh. man. Gosh. man. Gosh. And you're praying in front to God with in front of each other.

It's scary. Do you pray with Martha? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you first started doing this, this, this, I'm not staring her eyes like praying. Well, no. I mean, you're praying together, but you're praying to God together. And at first, it was probably awkward, awkward, awkward, right? right? right? And and the reason is because it was intimate. It was the most intimate thing. And I was also used to kind of praying alone and like do my own practice and ritual. Now it's like we're doing it together in certain ways.

And it's it's it's and that's a really really super super deep right brain bonding experience. This is the protocol, you know, dudes protocols. This is the protocol. Four things. Eye contact, always be touching, have more fun, and pray together. together. together. That's it. That's it. That's it. That should that should make any marriage last and be better. Yeah, I know. And I know people would be like, "Yeah, what if there's abuse?" I got it. What if there's infidelity? I got it. I mean, I I understand these these radical exogenous circumstances, what we're talking about is the cooling of the aror that naturally happens.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And so, if there's not these big audacious crazy problems, you're just kind of kind of kind of cold is how you get it back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're just kind of numb. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Walking through life, going through the motions. motions. motions. Uhhuh. You're basically your brains are not neurochemically connecting. With all this information that you have and you've studied and you've taught and you've written about, what is the one thing you wish you would have done earlier in your life that maybe you don't regret, but you're like, now that I know I could have done this better with my wife or with my kids or with my purpose or with my whatever, what is the thing that's like, uh, this is the thing I really wish I would have done differently?

differently? differently? Yeah, there are things. There really are things. Um, I wish I'd chosen more happiness or a specialness really. really. really. When my kids were little, but if then you wouldn't have this opportunity you have now. I know. I know. I know. You wouldn't have all the books and the Oprah and the Daly Lama and the credibility and the money and the you wouldn't have this now. You wouldn't be speaking 150 times a year now if you didn't pursue specialness for those. those. those. Would I have more love in my life?

I would have had more love. And and and related to that, um, here's a real regret. um when I was in my 20s and it was go go go. I wasn't doing what I'm doing now. I didn't get my PhD until I was 34. As a matter of fact, I was a professional classical musician. I was playing in the Barcelona City Orchestra. I was the associate principal French horn. I had a good career and I wanted literally to be the best French horn player in the world.

I was pursuing a career as a soloist and I wanted to tour the world. It was a lot of work. But it was also it meant that I didn't and know not all my relationships were bad. I had some very close friends and I I got married during that time and you know Esther's from Barcelona and so but the the one relationship that I marginalized was with my parents. I did I mean I didn't and my parents were interesting people. My dad was a was a a mathematics professor with a PhD in bioatistics.

He was a really really serious intellectual. My mother was an artist of of some renown in the Pacific Northwest where I grew up in Seattle. And they were interesting, intelligent, cultivated, cultured people. And I knew that I was like, I want to know them more. But, you know, and I was in my 20s and yeah, I was I was living in Europe and the whole thing and then they died. Both of them died. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my dad died at 66 and um my mom was she suffered from dementia very early and so there wasn't it wasn't the same.

It wasn't the same. And then she died at 73. But she was she was suffering um a loss of who she was significantly by the time she was my age and younger. And I missed it. And I missed it because my own negligence own negligence own negligence and I thought to myself, you know, for a long time I really that [snorts] was a source of suffering for me. Um how when you mean you missed it, was it like you saw them once or twice a year, holidays, like one week?

Yeah. Never more than that. Couple days here and there. Yeah. I talked to him once a month or something like that. Something like that. Yeah. I mean, it was like it was always cordial. Yeah. But it was like 20 years essentially. It was like, and I'm going to get to it. I'm going to get to it. And they died. they died. they died. And um and and I and I I suffered about that for a long time. I felt regret about that for a long time.

And then I had this realization based on the research. This is your question. I realized I get a doover. And the doover is with my kids and grandkids. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's my doover. And I said, "Okay, what am I going to do?" And I looked at the work. I looked at the research on this. And you know how you do it? You don't visit your grandkids. You live with them. with them. with them. And so we had every day you're living. You had a family meeting.

We had a family meeting. family meeting. family meeting. Wow. Wow. Wow. On the basis of this. And I and and and the family meeting was this. I said to my kids, "You didn't know your grandparents very well. You almost never saw them." saw them." saw them." Um I I didn't see my grandparents very often. I didn't know my parents very well. I wished I knew them well. It's going to be better for you if we help you with your kids. It's going to be better for us if we have a relationship with our grandchildren.

It's going to be better for all of us if we get in each other's way a lot. Let's not visit each other. Vacation should be apart. apart. apart. Not together. Yeah. And and that was entirely based on this behavioral science research. Entirely. I was I was and we had a big family meeting. meeting. meeting. So you read like a research paper on this. this. this. I read you know volumes on this. And what everything that was written on it? What did the research say about it?

The research said you're going to be happier and live longer if you're if you're living around and with your grandchildren. And your grandchildren are going to be have greater emotional, spiritual, and cognitive development if they're around their grandchildren, their grandparents. And there's going to be a better long-term relationship as people grow old if they have a day-to-day relationship with their adult children. That's what the data say. And so we had this big family meeting. It's literally better for every single generation. How old were your kids at this time?

this time? this time? My kids were early 20s, mid20s, and and my kids got married early. My kids are their rebellion was like going super traded out hippies out hippies cuz you know, free will and musicians, man, and the whole thing. We tell them stories about, you know, when we're And so my kids, uh, you know, two of my kids are Marines, are Marines, are Marines, you know, and my and two my my two older kids got married at 22 and 23 and started having kids at 23 and 24.

They're like military and marriage early. early. early. Yeah. Yeah. And they're all religious and all my kids are religious and you know when we were in our 20s we were I mean we were screwing up and you know it's like and we were doing all the stuff you're not supposed to we lived together before we got married and the whole thing that the Catholic church is like and anyway so and and and so my kids rebelled by by being like a Catholic family in 1940. So we had this meeting meeting meeting was like rebellion.

So and we're like these kids are such squares. Right. Right. Right. They're just doing everything by the book. I know. And so we had this family meeting and we said, "Here's what the research says and we all know it's true. Where do you want to raise your kids? Where do you think you can have the a good career and raise your kids?" And they voted. They voted the Washington DC region where I had raised them. My wife and I had raised them. And they wanted to send their kids to the same schools that they went to, very, very strong Catholic schools, really good Catholic schools.

And so we all packed up moving vans and moved there. there. there. Wow. We all we made a family decision, you know, we literally it was one van had two families in it and then the others came from California and Wow. And my daughter, who's the baby, she's 22, she's still in the Marine Corps. So, what about the the the son-in-law or or daughter-in-law, daughter-in-law, daughter-in-law, they wanted family life. They wanted to live with they wanted family life. And so, we've got one of the families is literally in our house.

our house. our house. They're in the bottom floor. We're in the top floor. We have meals, family meals together in the middle floor. And we get in each other's way. I mean, there's like some yelling. Sure. Sure. Sure. You know, because there's friction in any family, but I'm telling you, man, it's better than the outside. It's not overrated. It is not overrated. I go home, I come home and my little grandson, Joey, grandson, Joey, grandson, Joey, my god, it's like your dad again almost like you're like, he's like, I'm changing diapers at 61.

And Joey's like, he calls me Yaou because I in Catalan in Barcelona, the language is Catalan and that's grandfather and my wife is Yaya. So, I'm Yaya. Yay. Yayu, wrestle, wrestle. He's two and a half. We wrestle every day when when I come home from work. It's unbelievable. unbelievable. unbelievable. Wow. Wow. Wow. It's it's happiness. How do you I can see how amazing that would be, would be, would be, but how do you in your mind as a father say, "I need to not take the responsibility of like taking care of my sons.

They need to get out into the world and like learn to go hunt themselves and learn to go provide and learn to learn to learn to whatever do their taxes, you know, and not have like dad still taking care of them." Yeah. them." Yeah. them." Yeah. When they're 35 or 40. Yeah. How do you in their mind live together and have this rich beautiful life together but also allow them to be the man of the house, right? And the answer is that you give them these responsibilities themselves.

So my sons make really good living. They're really, really successful. They're making money. They're making good money. They're taking care of their own household economically. They're taking care of their own kids. And I'm not telling them what to do. If they need help with something, I'll help them with something. And they always ask my advice, which is crazy. It's cool. It's cool. It's cool. But I'm asking their advice, too. Wow. Wow. Wow. They're helping me a lot. I mean, I'm having this like freighted dumb thing with somebody in my wife's family, and I was feeling really, really, really crummy about it.

And I called my son, Carlos, and you know, Carlos is 25 years old. He gave me he's like gave me really, really good advice. It was beautiful actually what he told me because and and people never ask their adult kids advice. They're the best people to advise you because they're future you. M I mean they're they're they're you man. And I ask my daughter who's 22 and a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps at Quantico right now. She's tough as nails, 4' 11, crazy. crazy. crazy.

She's a killer of men. And and I ask her advice and she always reliably gives me really really good advice. And and there are certain things that they do that I can't do. They they do things that I actually can't do. I'm not taking responsibility off their plate. What we're really doing is we're kind of family as a firm. We're dividing and conquering the world together. Wow. Wow. Wow. And and they know kind of what the deal is. You know, I probably will die before my wife because that's generally speaking the way that it works.

God's law. Not entirely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and she will she will live in family for the rest of her life. Wow. That's beautiful. Yeah. And there will be intergenerational wealth. intergenerational wealth. intergenerational wealth. But the transfer of intergenerational wealth is because we're each other's safety net. safety net. safety net. Wow. Wow. Wow. It's not so I can even get a boat, dude. Right. Right. Right. The expectation is that you'll you'll leave more than you get and and that our family will be able to do beautiful things philanthropically and we'll have goals together as a family.

Is it going to work? to work? to work? I hope. I hope. I hope. And if it doesn't, that's a lesson, too. I've got a few final questions for you. This has been fascinating. We're talking about the meaning of your life. And this is about finding purpose in an age of emptiness. And I think there are a lot of empty people out here today. Again, if you guys don't have this book yet, make sure to grab a copy. Get one for a friend. If you know someone in your life who's struggling, going through a down season of life, get them a copy as a gift.

They will appreciate it. Let's imagine you in 10 years, 71. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is the advice your 71year-old self is screaming at you right now that you're not taking? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That you know, Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh, man. It will I get chills just saying this. That you know will pull you to where you're meant to be. Whether it's your 71-year-old wiser self is more connected to God and knows what you need to go through or what you need to let go of.

What is your future version of yourself saying to you right now? Why didn't you stop the things you needed to stop in their time? their time? their time? My 71-year-old self is not going to be telling this is not going to be telling me today is not telling me today that I'm missing opportunities to do more in the world. My 71-year-old self is telling me I'm missing opportunities to love more. And that means I'm not stopping the things, the worldly things that I need to stop.

So, what do you need to stop? Because I don't know how. Man, Man, Man, I don't know how. What are the things you think the 701 version of you is telling you to stop? And maybe it's through phases. Maybe it's not all right now. No, no, it's not all right now because right all right now probably means I got cancer or something, right? I mean, it's like a screeching halt where the car hits a wall, that's usually catastrophic. But just cuz you can do 300 days a year on the road doesn't mean you should.

Just because you can do this book with the next big celebrity doesn't mean you should. Just because you can teach here, you know. So, what is he saying that he knows best? That you missed an opportunity to love your guru and to be close to your guru, your wife. your wife. your wife. Yes. Yes. Yes. And the reason you missed that opportunity is because you saw a shiny thing. thing. thing. You went for it. And I went for it. And you're with your wife a lot.

You're I'm with my wife a lot. We are best friends, but I'm not doing enough. I'm not doing enough. What would be enough to be with your guru, your wife, more that you feel like your 71-year-old self would say, would just do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just be like, "That's it. You can still go chase these shiny objects because if you're being in service to something greater. and you'll get the rewards of the idols, but you know, as long as you're in service, it's all good.

But good. But good. But that was a good week there. That was a good month. Like, what would he be clapping at and saying, "Bravo, Arthur." What would he be saying? Probably there would be a film clip of Mrs. Brooks saying, "Don't you have something to do?" Really? Really? Really? Yeah, probably. [sighs] Don't you have something to do? That would be like I've never heard that once. I've never heard that once in my life. Never once. What would it take for you to get that this year?

this year? this year? We're at the beginning of the year still. still. still. I know. I know. I know. And is that even something that you think you should do this year? It is something I need to do this year. Is that a week long? No. Is that a month? Is that a day? Is that three months? months? months? That's a cadence. That's a cadence of And it really starts with the time that you actually have. I mean, one of the, you know, you always hear that you should have quality time versus quantity time.

time. time. The truth is, you need both. Yes. Yes. Yes. With the people that you love, your your your little babies who are not going to be little babies soon. They're going to be saying words and walking around and and and and pretty soon they're going to have a lot less interest in you. I mean, you'll be the hero. The good news, by the way, here's the crystal ball. ball. ball. They're you're going to be their hero when they're in their 20s. I got to wait that long.

No, no, no. You're going to be their hero up until they're like 12th and then again when they're 22. That's good. good. good. No, no, it's good. It's really, really good. Dad, dad's the best. Dad's dad's not the best for this anyway. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] So quantity and quality are both really, really, really important. So what it would take, and this is the true for everybody watching the school of greatness, is to be really there when you're there, [clears throat] to be there more, and then to be really there when you're there.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. That's what it really takes. Now, let me take a side note. Let me tell you what you may know or you may not know. Why you're so good at what you do. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Cuz you're here now. Yeah. Present. Yeah. Present. Yeah. Present. That's unusual. That's unusual. That's unusual. You're looking into my soul. The first time I met you. Why did I love you the first time I met you? Cuz you saw me. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. You just met me and you saw me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a superpower. You're super good at that. Thank you. And that's what your babies need. And that's what your guru needs. My wife. Yeah. Everyone. Yeah. That's what they that's what they And so the the the the the mistake that you could make or I could make is to be fully present when we're doing what we do for the admiration of the world and using that super strength for the applause of strangers, but not at home. And not bringing it home. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And not bringing it home. Do you do that sometimes? Of course. Of course. Of course. And that's that's the that's the error I need to correct. What would that look like this year if at the end of this year your 71-year-old self said, "You know what? What you said on the school of greatness was to to really be there with quality and quantity." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you did it this year. What would need to happen from you to say, "I did it just this year." Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Not for the next 10 years, but this one year I did it. It would mean slowing down a little. So, what does that look like? Give me an actual game plan another at least another day a week at home. One day a week at home and and by the way I have already set protocols in motion where I'm always home on weekends. I don't travel weekends plus that another Yeah. And and another day and when I'm home I'm home. When I'm home I'm home texting strategizing.

No because the problem is the cycles in the brain. You know that feeling thinking about the next Yeah. Because it's it's the castles in the sky. The school of greatness is a castle in the sky. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. Is what it comes down to. And and that leads to a whole lot of success. But that is a tremendous sacrifice. And it's it's a sacrifice borne by the people who love you the most and you. And that's what it's going to take. It's going to take something tangible like a little bit more of a sacrifice when it comes to being more present physically and also more psychologically where my right brain is truly open so that my meaning can find me.

And that's only happening when you're truly present. Here's the thing that have you read CS Lewis? No, I haven't read much, but CS Lewis. CS Lewis. CS Lewis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. CS Lewis has this uh I know he is. He makes a point. He's a theologian and it's really worth reading. He wrote the Chronicles of Narnia which almost every kid knows about, but but also very very beautiful books about religion and he makes this observation which is scientifically very robust. It's a very important point that we spend all our time in the past in the pre in the present and the future, right?

But most people who are really ambitious are spending all their time in the future. You can't love in the future. You can only love now. Yes. Yes. Yes. And so if you go home and you're in the future, you're not loving at all. No. No. No. Love happens right now. Yes. Yes. Yes. And when you spent your time in the cycles living in the future, you've lost the opportunity to do the only love, to experience the only love that you can experience as a human being.

being. being. Wow. Wow. Wow. And that's what I don't want to miss anymore. That's what 71year-old Arthur says. Stop. says. Stop. says. Stop. Fix it. Fix it. Fix it. So, what would what would one day a week look like? Is that picking a day every week that you say this is off and I'm not off. No, it's just it's just actually it's actually having dinner together and being home and and and after dinner actually completely present. Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, it's like no problem with that.

I mean, she's going to work. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's not just sitting around waiting, around waiting, around waiting, but it's really And again, it sounds like I'm really really really geared toward my wife, but there's a reason that she's put in my life. She's my partner. partner. partner. She's my partner. It's like, and if you met her, man, she's ride or die, man. That's cool. That's cool. That's cool. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But ride or die deserves the very best. And when she gets the very best, then I'm in my bliss.

And then I'm being the man that God wants me to be. Yeah. You're not That's the stage. You're not in the specialness of the world when you're in that moment, though. You're not getting an award and on a stage, husband of the year. Yeah. But you're not getting the dopamine hit of more of more idols. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. You're getting more. You're getting love and [snorts] feeling presence of And I'm a success addict. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I have the same childhood that you had.

you had. you had. I only got attention when I played the French horn when I got straight A's whenever I happened to do it. And so I still think that that points on the board. Points on the board. This is why I do my work, by the way, because I want the solutions for myself. Of course I do the show, too. Yeah. It's me, search, not research. Isn't it interesting that your parents are no longer with us, but you're still pursuing the same pursuits to get the attention?

attention? attention? Oh, I know. You know, it's like I ask this all the time. I wonder if my dad's wonder if my dad would be proud of me. He's been dead 23 years. I wonder if my dad would be proud of me. What do you think if he was alive? Yeah. He'd be like, "Yeah, my son teaches a little school near Boston." He'd be making some sort of corny dad professor joke. professor joke. professor joke. Right. Yeah. He'd be he'd be he'd think that's cool. He'd think that's cool.

But I think about it all the time. Would my dad be proud of me? And this is how we are. And this is a normal thing and it's a healthy thing actually, but you can't be animated by it in a particular way where you're trying and where you're on the hit on a treadmill more, more, more, more, and more more. You can't be subjugated to that. Do you feel sad that he wasn't able to watch everything you've done in the last 20 years? 20 years? 20 years?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's sad for me. Yeah. You too. Yeah. Well, he My dad passed four years ago. It's sad for me. But he was he also had a brain injury like 20 years ago. So he was kind of like I guess maybe similar to your mom where he wasn't able to have a relationship with me. He didn't have the memory. He didn't have the cognitive skills and he was kind of like a child as an adult. He died when you were 39. Yeah. I was 39.

Someone 38 39. But when I was 22 22 he had an accident. He kind of died. He was alive but he emotionally wasn't available. And when I'd see him, which was rare, it was who are you again? And where'd you go to school again? Like he could talk to you, but he didn't have the it wasn't him. I understand. I understand. I understand. It's like a different human was in him. I understand. I understand. I understand. And it was a childlike version. You lost him and lost him in a in a in a fatherly way.

Yes. You still loved him and he still had full dignity, but he couldn't be on his own though. The dad the dad thing was gone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. kind. So we kind of So it's been like 20 something years of not having a father and you think about him a lot. Think about him more in the last few years. years. years. Yeah. It's funny. I got married and have kids. I'm like, dang, he would have really loved this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like he would have really Is your mom alive?

She's alive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have a relationship? Yeah. Yeah. She lives in LA. Yeah. That's great. That's great. That's great. But I'm like, he would really love this. Like And he would be really excited, you know? know? know? He would love this. And you know what? He does. He does. Yeah, he does. He's proud of you. Yeah, I know that. Dad's proud of you. But what do you how often do you think of your dad? Every day. Every day. Every day. Really? Really? Really?

Every day. Every day. day. day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love my dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I knew him better. What was the last time you had with him? Do you remember? Yeah. Um the last time I had with him was when he was dying. He was dying and and he got sick. He he retired at 62 from his professorship. He wasn't happy. wasn't happy. wasn't happy. He wasn't happy. 62. One year old. 62. Yeah, exactly. When's your birthday? Uh May 21st I'll be 62.

be 62. be 62. So he died at this age. No, no, he he retired at this age. He got sick sick at 64. Okay. Okay. Okay. And the doctor gave him 15 to 20 years to live and he died in two. 66. 66. 66. And he was a biostistician. And he was a biostistician. And so I said, "Oh man, that's a that's that's lousy." And he says, "Yeah, but somebody's got to be on the left side of the curve." the curve." the curve." Oh my gosh.

No. Bioat bioat till the end. Bioat till the end. Gosh. and and uh and I I would I was living in Syracuse at the time. I was teaching at Syracuse University at the time and I would go back every few weeks and I I got closer to my brother during those years and um and my mom was really sick. I mean, she was really sick and so she couldn't and um um um and and we talked a lot, you know, during that during that period. And it was funny because he, you know, he had a I think a kind of a spiritual awakening during that time, too.

He was always a he was a serious Christian guy. But I think that he he drew closer to God as well. And uh and he was worried. He was worried about my mom. He was worried worried. He was going to take care of her. her. He was going to take care of her. And and and he knew my brother. My brother's a good man. My brother is going to take care of her. The whole thing. But by the end, he finally said, "I have to let go now.

I have to let go now." now." now." Of his life. Of the worry of his wife. All of it. Wow. All of it. And he died. when you let go really like the next few days or next weeks or something. Why? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, sooner thereafter. sooner thereafter. sooner thereafter. What was your biggest lesson of witnessing your father's death that taught you about life? That's a good question. It's a good question. It's that it's that it's that it's that in the act of actually, you know, he and he wasn't holding on to the same stuff that I'm holding on to.

I mean, I have a different kind of life and a different kind of career. you know, I'm doing a lot of stuff that he's never he had never done before, [snorts] but that I think that it's pretty healthy to let go even earlier. You know, he was he was a he was an anxious person, you know, and and so am I. And you're an anxious guy, too. I mean, we're all tightly wound, right? And and letting go was not a tragic act. It was a natural thing to do.

And I think we could all exhausting being anxious. Oh my gosh. Clenching on and holding on. Holding on. It's like white knuckling your life. your life. your life. Exhausting. Exhausting. Exhausting. It's [snorts] like on the wheel of the car. car. car. There's no peace. No. And uh and I think about that a lot. I think about um I can let go too more. And so I thought about that an awful lot. I haven't succeeded but I thought about that an awful lot. And that really was a life lesson.

Yeah. And he he also when my mom got sick, how old were you when he passed? 38. Not young, but 38. Same age for me. Yeah. My dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um he loved my mom. He loved her. He was totally devoted to my mom. And she was sick and she wasn't present because of, you know, cognitive decline. And he loved my mom and he took care of my mom. And that was a great lesson to me that I learned learned learned that I learned that this is it, man.

This is it. This is your life. This is it. This is your path. Oh my gosh. [sighs] I don't want to stop this, but I I got to bring it this, but I I got to bring it to the end here because uh there's a lot here I think people can take on, and we'll probably do another episode about a lot of this stuff later. I would love that. The book is called The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness. Emptiness. Emptiness.

You guys can get it right now. Um you also have a virtual launch event for the meaning of your life. You've also got a podcast, this is really cool, called Office Hours. I'm glad you're doing this uh with Arthur Brooks. So guys, check that out. You can go everything is at arthurbrooks.com. arthurbrooks.com. arthurbrooks.com. Social media arthurbrooks as well. There's a a website for the book called The Meaning of Your Life, all oneword.com. And all the resources for the book are there. Awesome. But again, if someone is if you felt like any part of this has spoken to you, if you're watching or listening right now, please share this with one friend.

Please get the book. Uh if you feel like something is lost inside of you, if you feel stuck, if you feel like you're not fulfilling your purpose, you're not clear on what that is, or you just feel like you're not getting the most out of your life, make sure you get a copy of the meaning of your life and get one for a friend that you know is struggling. And we all have friends that we're trying to coach through life throughout the day that are just really struggling in some area of life.

This will give them great stories, great science, and great tools on how to start improving the quality of your life. Uh, so make sure you guys get a few copies for friends as well. I've got two final questions for you before I ask them. Arthur, I want to acknowledge you for the service you have on people, even though that you're still tied around an idol. Uh, uh, and we all are in some ways. ways. ways. An idol is an idol. Yeah. But, uh, the fact that you care deeply about human beings getting out of suffering or understanding their suffering to have more meaning with their suffering to find more peace is such a beautiful gift.

Thank you. So even though you do get to take an extra, you know, evening, a day, a week to be with your wife and your guru and your kids and be more present in those ways, when you are out there being present with the rest of us, it really makes a difference. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I acknowledge you for the gift that you are. you are. you are. Thank you, Louis. Umise this Umise this Umise this much love and admiration. Thank you. Thank you.

This is a question called the three truths. Imagine hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want, but it's the last day on earth for you. can be 100, 200, whatever it age is. You get to live as long as you want. It's your last day. And you get to accomplish all your wildest dreams. And And And you do all the things that your future self envisions you doing. And it's like, good and faithful son, everything, you did it. did it. did it. But for whatever reason, we don't get any access to your work anymore left in this world.

Your books, your content, everything has to go with you. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. But you got to leave one final message with the world that was your three truths, truths, truths, your biggest lessons in life. What would those three truths be for you? Number one, your life has meaning. That meaning you have purpose in your life and God created you for a reason. Number two, Number two, Number two, the world has a coherence to it. Things happen for a reason. Your job is to figure out what they are.

Number three, Number three, Number three, happiness is love. Your destiny is to love and be loved. That's the only job that matters. Man, puts it in perspective. Um Um Um I hope that all of the, you know, bunch write a bunch of books, do a bunch of shows. Yeah. shows. Yeah. shows. Yeah. I hope it all kind of boils down to that. that. that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really hope it boils down to that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. The three truths. Beautiful question. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Final question. What is your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness comes from the answer to the last question which is heroically to love and be loved. be loved. be loved. To love notwithstanding what the world tells me. No. To love notwithstanding my feelings. feelings. feelings. To transcend myself and to love notwithstanding all of those things. That's true greatness. That's the man that I want to be. That's the greatness that I think that actually all of us have within ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you've made it easier for me to do that today.

Oh, man. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it, brother. it, brother. it, brother. And so there's FOMO and fear of being left behind. And some of it's true, but not necessarily the haste and and blindness which we're throwing the technology at our companies and our businesses. And I think history will always repeat itself, which is when you do something blindly and too quickly, at some point it's going to break,