From Debilitating Pain to Full Recovery: The Diet That Saved Me | Dr. Terry Wahls

So, it's very clear to me in 2007 that So, it's very clear to me in 2007 that I'm on track to become bedridden by my I'm on track to become bedridden by my I'm on track to become bedridden by my illness, probably demented by my illness illness, probably demented by my illness illness, probably demented by my illness because I'm beginning to have brain fog, because I'm beginning to have brain fog, because I'm beginning to have brain fog, and probably dying with intractable, and probably dying with intractable, and probably dying with intractable, horrific electrical face pain. And then horrific electrical face pain. And then horrific electrical face pain. And then I have this big aha, what if I redesign I have this big aha, what if I redesign I have this big aha, what if I redesign my paleo diet based on this long list of my paleo diet based on this long list of my paleo diet based on this long list of supplements that I'm taking? And I start supplements that I'm taking? And I start supplements that I'm taking? And I start this new way of eating, and by Mother's this new way of eating, and by Mother's this new way of eating, and by Mother's Day, for the first time in 6 years, I Day, for the first time in 6 years, I Day, for the first time in 6 years, I get on my bike get on my bike get on my bike >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> and I bike around the block. And my kids >> and I bike around the block. And my kids >> and I bike around the block. And my kids are crying, my when I do that, Jackie's are crying, my when I do that, Jackie's are crying, my when I do that, Jackie's crying, I'm crying. crying, I'm crying. crying, I'm crying. >> Have you been dealing with anxiety, low >> Have you been dealing with anxiety, low >> Have you been dealing with anxiety, low energy, or trouble focusing, and still energy, or trouble focusing, and still energy, or trouble focusing, and still feel like you're missing something? feel like you're missing something? feel like you're missing something? You're not alone. And that's why I You're not alone. And that's why I You're not alone. And that's why I created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new program that looks in places most people program that looks in places most people program that looks in places most people never think to check. Like nutrient never think to check. Like nutrient never think to check. Like nutrient deficiencies, the health of your gut, deficiencies, the health of your gut, deficiencies, the health of your gut, metabolism, your immune system, and lots metabolism, your immune system, and lots metabolism, your immune system, and lots more. You know, Terry, you and I both more. You know, Terry, you and I both more. You know, Terry, you and I both have have have uh had interesting [music] uh had interesting [music] uh had interesting [music] past medical histories, and [laughter] past medical histories, and [laughter] past medical histories, and [laughter] I say past because they are past, and we I say past because they are past, and we I say past because they are past, and we both suffered from incurable diseases, both suffered from incurable diseases, both suffered from incurable diseases, according to traditional medicine. You according to traditional medicine. You according to traditional medicine. You had severe had severe had severe multiple sclerosis and were in a multiple sclerosis and were in a multiple sclerosis and were in a wheelchair. I pretty much have had wheelchair. I pretty much have had wheelchair. I pretty much have had anything and everything that you can anything and everything that you can anything and everything that you can possibly get that's not lifestyle possibly get that's not lifestyle possibly get that's not lifestyle related. related. related. We both discovered that there's a We both discovered that there's a We both discovered that there's a different way of thinking about disease different way of thinking about disease different way of thinking about disease that actually holds the answer to so that actually holds the answer to so that actually holds the answer to so much suffering that people have across much suffering that people have across much suffering that people have across the spectrum of diseases. And the spectrum of diseases. And the spectrum of diseases. And you know, I would love to sort of have you know, I would love to sort of have you know, I would love to sort of have you share a little bit about you know, you share a little bit about you know, you share a little bit about you know, your your background because you were your your background because you were your your background because you were really trained as a traditional doctor. really trained as a traditional doctor. really trained as a traditional doctor. You developed a really severe and You developed a really severe and You developed a really severe and progressive disease, which progressive disease, which progressive disease, which in my training and in your training in my training and in your training in my training and in your training was a one-way street. You could mitigate was a one-way street. You could mitigate was a one-way street. You could mitigate the symptoms, you can maybe relieve a the symptoms, you can maybe relieve a the symptoms, you can maybe relieve a little suffering, but it's kind of a bad little suffering, but it's kind of a bad little suffering, but it's kind of a bad news situation. Just so people news situation. Just so people news situation. Just so people understand like your background a little understand like your background a little understand like your background a little having heard you. Tell us what happened having heard you. Tell us what happened having heard you. Tell us what happened to you. to you. to you. >> As an adolescent I struggled with >> As an adolescent I struggled with >> As an adolescent I struggled with depression. depression. depression. Uh and then uh you know I'm a farm kid, Uh and then uh you know I'm a farm kid, Uh and then uh you know I'm a farm kid, physically very active, uh physically very active, uh physically very active, uh I'm an artist. Uh I decided I don't want I'm an artist. Uh I decided I don't want I'm an artist. Uh I decided I don't want to be a starving artist. I decided to to be a starving artist. I decided to to be a starving artist. I decided to get back into science. I get into get back into science. I get into get back into science. I get into medical school, uh complete my internal medical school, uh complete my internal medical school, uh complete my internal medicine residency. When I'm 45 medicine residency. When I'm 45 medicine residency. When I'm 45 I uh I have some weakness in my left I uh I have some weakness in my left I uh I have some weakness in my left leg, which ultimately is diagnosed with leg, which ultimately is diagnosed with leg, which ultimately is diagnosed with uh relapsing remitting multiple uh relapsing remitting multiple uh relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis. sclerosis. sclerosis. And they said, you know, 13 years And they said, you know, 13 years And they said, you know, 13 years earlier you had a period of dim vision earlier you had a period of dim vision earlier you had a period of dim vision in your left eye. That was probably in your left eye. That was probably in your left eye. That was probably optic neuritis. optic neuritis. optic neuritis. Uh and I was had a lesion in my brain Uh and I was had a lesion in my brain Uh and I was had a lesion in my brain and my spinal cord. Uh they diagnosed and my spinal cord. Uh they diagnosed and my spinal cord. Uh they diagnosed relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis. relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis. relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis. I did not want to take an interferon I did not want to take an interferon I did not want to take an interferon because that would make my depression because that would make my depression because that would make my depression much worse. So I took Copaxone, which much worse. So I took Copaxone, which much worse. So I took Copaxone, which was, you know, the best DMT that you was, you know, the best DMT that you was, you know, the best DMT that you could take at that time. At age 48 I uh could take at that time. At age 48 I uh could take at that time. At age 48 I uh clearly am worse. I needed tilt-in-space clearly am worse. I needed tilt-in-space clearly am worse. I needed tilt-in-space wheelchair. I take mitoxantrone in the wheelchair. I take mitoxantrone in the wheelchair. I take mitoxantrone in the form of chemotherapy. form of chemotherapy. form of chemotherapy. Uh and uh my neurologist says, you know, Uh and uh my neurologist says, you know, Uh and uh my neurologist says, you know, functions once lost will never come functions once lost will never come functions once lost will never come back, which is why I was happy to take back, which is why I was happy to take back, which is why I was happy to take mitoxantrone. Did not help. I continued mitoxantrone. Did not help. I continued mitoxantrone. Did not help. I continued to decline. Then I took Tysabri, the new to decline. Then I took Tysabri, the new to decline. Then I took Tysabri, the new biologic. Did not help. I continued to biologic. Did not help. I continued to biologic. Did not help. I continued to decline. Then I was put on CellCept. decline. Then I was put on CellCept. decline. Then I was put on CellCept. >> And these are powerful >> And these are powerful >> And these are powerful immune-suppressing drugs for those who immune-suppressing drugs for those who immune-suppressing drugs for those who don't know what they are. don't know what they are. don't know what they are. >> And I want to tell people, by the way, >> And I want to tell people, by the way, >> And I want to tell people, by the way, my neurologist at this big uh MS center my neurologist at this big uh MS center my neurologist at this big uh MS center had mentioned uh the work of uh had mentioned uh the work of uh had mentioned uh the work of uh Direct MS Charity. And they turned me on Direct MS Charity. And they turned me on Direct MS Charity. And they turned me on to the Paleo diet. to the Paleo diet. to the Paleo diet. Uh and so I I had already been doing the Uh and so I I had already been doing the Uh and so I I had already been doing the Paleo diet uh for several years. But Paleo diet uh for several years. But Paleo diet uh for several years. But it's like I didn't know how long it it's like I didn't know how long it it's like I didn't know how long it would take to recover. And maybe all I would take to recover. And maybe all I would take to recover. And maybe all I could do is slow my decline. could do is slow my decline. could do is slow my decline. Uh so I I was doing the Paleo diet. I'm Uh so I I was doing the Paleo diet. I'm Uh so I I was doing the Paleo diet. I'm reading the basic science. reading the basic science. reading the basic science. I decide that mitochondrial dysfunction I decide that mitochondrial dysfunction I decide that mitochondrial dysfunction is what leads to cognitive decline with is what leads to cognitive decline with is what leads to cognitive decline with Alzheimer's, to Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, to Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, to Parkinson's, and to probably the progressive decline and to probably the progressive decline and to probably the progressive decline with progressive MS. So at this point I with progressive MS. So at this point I with progressive MS. So at this point I have secondary progressive MS. have secondary progressive MS. have secondary progressive MS. >> And what does that What does that mean >> And what does that What does that mean >> And what does that What does that mean that for people who have What does that that for people who have What does that that for people who have What does that mean? Like is that mean you're mean? Like is that mean you're mean? Like is that mean you're you're in a wheelchair, you can't move, you're in a wheelchair, you can't move, you're in a wheelchair, you can't move, you can't walk? you can't walk? you can't walk? >> So it means that I no longer have these >> So it means that I no longer have these >> So it means that I no longer have these acute flares, these relapses. acute flares, these relapses. acute flares, these relapses. Instead there's this I'm a little worse Instead there's this I'm a little worse Instead there's this I'm a little worse every 6 months. I'm a little worse, a every 6 months. I'm a little worse, a every 6 months. I'm a little worse, a little worse, a little worse. little worse, a little worse. little worse, a little worse. So in 2003, I mean I was in a So in 2003, I mean I was in a So in 2003, I mean I was in a wheelchair. wheelchair. wheelchair. By 2007 By 2007 By 2007 I could take a couple steps using two I could take a couple steps using two I could take a couple steps using two walking sticks. I cannot sit up in a walking sticks. I cannot sit up in a walking sticks. I cannot sit up in a regular chair like I am now, Mark. I'm regular chair like I am now, Mark. I'm regular chair like I am now, Mark. I'm in a zero gravity chair with my knees in a zero gravity chair with my knees in a zero gravity chair with my knees higher than my nose. higher than my nose. higher than my nose. I'm beginning to have brain fog. I've I'm beginning to have brain fog. I've I'm beginning to have brain fog. I've also had trigeminal neuralgia, these also had trigeminal neuralgia, these also had trigeminal neuralgia, these electrical face pains that jolt down my electrical face pains that jolt down my electrical face pains that jolt down my face. face. face. Like, you know, a jolt of electricity Like, you know, a jolt of electricity Like, you know, a jolt of electricity that are more frequent, more severe that are more frequent, more severe that are more frequent, more severe and much more difficult to turn off. and much more difficult to turn off. and much more difficult to turn off. So it's very clear to me in 2007 So it's very clear to me in 2007 So it's very clear to me in 2007 that I'm on track to become that I'm on track to become that I'm on track to become probably probably probably bedridden by my illness because I'm bedridden by my illness because I'm bedridden by my illness because I'm already very close. already very close. already very close. Probably demented by my illness because Probably demented by my illness because Probably demented by my illness because I'm beginning to have brain fog. I'm beginning to have brain fog. I'm beginning to have brain fog. And probably dying with intractable, And probably dying with intractable, And probably dying with intractable, horrific electrical face pain. horrific electrical face pain. horrific electrical face pain. Uh now fortunately for me, I had been Uh now fortunately for me, I had been Uh now fortunately for me, I had been continuing to keep reading the basic continuing to keep reading the basic continuing to keep reading the basic science. I'd come across a study using science. I'd come across a study using science. I'd come across a study using electrical stimulation of muscles electrical stimulation of muscles electrical stimulation of muscles and convinced my physical therapist to and convinced my physical therapist to and convinced my physical therapist to let me have a test session. We And we let me have a test session. We And we let me have a test session. We And we add electrical stimulation to my add electrical stimulation to my add electrical stimulation to my exercise program that he has me on, this exercise program that he has me on, this exercise program that he has me on, this little tiny, I might add, tiny tiny little tiny, I might add, tiny tiny little tiny, I might add, tiny tiny little exercise program that I could do. little exercise program that I could do. little exercise program that I could do. And then I have this big aha. And Mark, And then I have this big aha. And Mark, And then I have this big aha. And Mark, I really have to laugh at myself for how I really have to laugh at myself for how I really have to laugh at myself for how long it took to have this aha. What if I long it took to have this aha. What if I long it took to have this aha. What if I redesign my paleo diet redesign my paleo diet redesign my paleo diet based on this long list of supplements based on this long list of supplements based on this long list of supplements that I'm taking? And I start this new way of eating March And I start this new way of eating March 20, 20, 20, pardon me, December 26th of 2007. pardon me, December 26th of 2007. pardon me, December 26th of 2007. Can't sit up, take a few steps, have, Can't sit up, take a few steps, have, Can't sit up, take a few steps, have, you know, frequent, severe electrical you know, frequent, severe electrical you know, frequent, severe electrical face pain. face pain. face pain. By the end of February, By the end of February, By the end of February, my fatigue is is gone, my mental clarity my fatigue is is gone, my mental clarity my fatigue is is gone, my mental clarity is much improved, my physical therapist is much improved, my physical therapist is much improved, my physical therapist said, you know, "Terry, you're said, you know, "Terry, you're said, you know, "Terry, you're definitely stronger." And he advances my definitely stronger." And he advances my definitely stronger." And he advances my exercises. exercises. exercises. And by And by And by uh Mother's Day, uh Mother's Day, uh Mother's Day, for the first time in 6 years, I get on for the first time in 6 years, I get on for the first time in 6 years, I get on my bike, and I bike around the block. my bike, and I bike around the block. my bike, and I bike around the block. You know, and my kids are crying my when You know, and my kids are crying my when You know, and my kids are crying my when I do that, Jackie's crying, I'm crying. I do that, Jackie's crying, I'm crying. I do that, Jackie's crying, I'm crying. And then, And then, And then, I you know, I I you know, I I you know, I I bike a little bit more every day. I bike a little bit more every day. I bike a little bit more every day. And by October, Jackie signs us up for And by October, Jackie signs us up for And by October, Jackie signs us up for the Courage Ride, which is 20 miles, the Courage Ride, which is 20 miles, the Courage Ride, which is 20 miles, 18.5, 18.5, 18.5, and and and I I I bike the whole way. bike the whole way. bike the whole way. And of course, this really transforms And of course, this really transforms And of course, this really transforms how I think about disease and health. It how I think about disease and health. It how I think about disease and health. It will transform the way I practice will transform the way I practice will transform the way I practice medicine. medicine. medicine. Yeah, and um I I'm also very privileged Yeah, and um I I'm also very privileged Yeah, and um I I'm also very privileged in that in that in that my chair of medicine at the university, my chair of medicine at the university, my chair of medicine at the university, my chief of staff at the VA, my chief of staff at the VA, my chief of staff at the VA, are also amazed by what has happened. are also amazed by what has happened. are also amazed by what has happened. And they want me to start doing clinical And they want me to start doing clinical And they want me to start doing clinical research testing can others with research testing can others with research testing can others with progressive multiple sclerosis implement progressive multiple sclerosis implement progressive multiple sclerosis implement this complicated regimen. this complicated regimen. this complicated regimen. Is it safe? And what's the effect uh for Is it safe? And what's the effect uh for Is it safe? And what's the effect uh for their quality of life? their quality of life? their quality of life? >> You mean is it safe to eat real food as >> You mean is it safe to eat real food as >> You mean is it safe to eat real food as opposed to take a bunch of powerful opposed to take a bunch of powerful opposed to take a bunch of powerful immune-suppressing drugs? immune-suppressing drugs? immune-suppressing drugs? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Isn't that radical? >> Isn't that radical? >> Isn't that radical? >> Oh my god, what a revolutionary idea. >> Oh my god, what a revolutionary idea. >> Oh my god, what a revolutionary idea. You're you're you're sort of covered a You're you're you're sort of covered a You're you're you're sort of covered a lot of ground there, and I think that lot of ground there, and I think that lot of ground there, and I think that what people need to understand is that what people need to understand is that what people need to understand is that multiple sclerosis is a very serious multiple sclerosis is a very serious multiple sclerosis is a very serious disease where you lose the ability to disease where you lose the ability to disease where you lose the ability to conduct nerve signals down your nerves, conduct nerve signals down your nerves, conduct nerve signals down your nerves, and it affects almost everything in your and it affects almost everything in your and it affects almost everything in your body. body. body. And there's no cure, except maybe there And there's no cure, except maybe there And there's no cure, except maybe there is. is. is. Cuz maybe there is. Cuz maybe there is. Cuz maybe there is. >> It And that maybe >> It And that maybe >> It And that maybe >> Except maybe there is. >> Except maybe there is. >> Except maybe there is. >> We overlooked why people develop these >> We overlooked why people develop these >> We overlooked why people develop these serious autoimmune diseases. serious autoimmune diseases. serious autoimmune diseases. And [snorts] And [snorts] And [snorts] yes, and I and I tell my tribes there yes, and I and I tell my tribes there yes, and I and I tell my tribes there are through are through are through there's first you have the genetic there's first you have the genetic there's first you have the genetic vulnerability. vulnerability. vulnerability. You have genes that increase the poss- You have genes that increase the poss- You have genes that increase the poss- the vulnerability that this could happen the vulnerability that this could happen the vulnerability that this could happen to you. to you. to you. Then you have the infections Then you have the infections Then you have the infections that nearly all of us have had because that nearly all of us have had because that nearly all of us have had because these microbes these microbes these microbes >> Like Epstein-Barr or something, right? >> Like Epstein-Barr or something, right? >> Like Epstein-Barr or something, right? >> No, Epstein-Barr, strep staph >> No, Epstein-Barr, strep staph >> No, Epstein-Barr, strep staph uh measles, herpes simplex virus uh measles, herpes simplex virus uh measles, herpes simplex virus uh and nearly everyone has had one or uh and nearly everyone has had one or uh and nearly everyone has had one or more of these. more of these. more of these. And then there are these unknown And then there are these unknown And then there are these unknown environmental factors that my environmental factors that my environmental factors that my conventional neurology colleagues will conventional neurology colleagues will conventional neurology colleagues will say, "So, we don't know if there are, so say, "So, we don't know if there are, so say, "So, we don't know if there are, so just take your DMTs." just take your DMTs." just take your DMTs." And what you and I say are, "You know And what you and I say are, "You know And what you and I say are, "You know >> DMTs are disease-modifying therapies, >> DMTs are disease-modifying therapies, >> DMTs are disease-modifying therapies, right? right? right? >> Oh, thank you. And what you and I tell >> Oh, thank you. And what you and I tell >> Oh, thank you. And what you and I tell our tribe is, our tribe is, our tribe is, "We're going to address all those "We're going to address all those "We're going to address all those environmental factors and shift every environmental factors and shift every environmental factors and shift every one of them from disease-promoting to one of them from disease-promoting to one of them from disease-promoting to health-promoting health-promoting health-promoting one by one at a pace that you and your one by one at a pace that you and your one by one at a pace that you and your family can manage. And what we predict family can manage. And what we predict family can manage. And what we predict will happen will happen will happen is that if you're on prescription is that if you're on prescription is that if you're on prescription medications, you'll have to work with medications, you'll have to work with medications, you'll have to work with your medical team because you'll your medical team because you'll your medical team because you'll probably need to lower and lower and probably need to lower and lower and probably need to lower and lower and lower doses lower doses lower doses and finally fewer of those and finally fewer of those and finally fewer of those uh prescription meds. uh prescription meds. uh prescription meds. And your blood sugars will improve, your And your blood sugars will improve, your And your blood sugars will improve, your blood pressures will improve, your mood blood pressures will improve, your mood blood pressures will improve, your mood will probably improve, your energy will will probably improve, your energy will will probably improve, your energy will improve, improve, improve, and your interest in intimate and your interest in intimate and your interest in intimate relationships with the people that you relationships with the people that you relationships with the people that you love will probably also improve." love will probably also improve." love will probably also improve." >> But you know what's so amazing, Terry, >> But you know what's so amazing, Terry, >> But you know what's so amazing, Terry, is that you know there's just just so is that you know there's just just so is that you know there's just just so much resistance in the system to this. much resistance in the system to this. much resistance in the system to this. And you know, both you and I have have And you know, both you and I have have And you know, both you and I have have seen seen seen what would be thought of as miracles, what would be thought of as miracles, what would be thought of as miracles, right? Like you you oh you know, maybe right? Like you you oh you know, maybe right? Like you you oh you know, maybe this Terry had a spontaneous remission. this Terry had a spontaneous remission. this Terry had a spontaneous remission. Oh, maybe Mark you just had a Oh, maybe Mark you just had a Oh, maybe Mark you just had a spontaneous remission of all these spontaneous remission of all these spontaneous remission of all these conditions you had. Or maybe your conditions you had. Or maybe your conditions you had. Or maybe your patients with this or that condition patients with this or that condition patients with this or that condition that got better. that got better. that got better. You know, it's it was psychosomatic or You know, it's it was psychosomatic or You know, it's it was psychosomatic or >> we're incompetent. You never really had >> we're incompetent. You never really had >> we're incompetent. You never really had progressive multiple sclerosis because progressive multiple sclerosis because progressive multiple sclerosis because nobody gets better nobody gets better nobody gets better >> you. They misdiagnosed you, right? >> you. They misdiagnosed you, right? >> you. They misdiagnosed you, right? But the reality is But the reality is But the reality is you and I know that's not true and and you and I know that's not true and and you and I know that's not true and and what I just want to double click on what I just want to double click on what I just want to double click on something you said because something you said because something you said because uh you jumped over pretty fast, which is uh you jumped over pretty fast, which is uh you jumped over pretty fast, which is you went back to the basic science. you went back to the basic science. you went back to the basic science. And and this underscores a really And and this underscores a really And and this underscores a really fundamental fundamental fundamental thing that's happening right now in thing that's happening right now in thing that's happening right now in medicine is that clinical medicine what medicine is that clinical medicine what medicine is that clinical medicine what you get when you go to the doctor's you get when you go to the doctor's you get when you go to the doctor's office office office does not reflect the scientific does not reflect the scientific does not reflect the scientific advancements that we're seeing in our advancements that we're seeing in our advancements that we're seeing in our understanding of these diseases understanding of these diseases understanding of these diseases of these quote incurable diseases, of of these quote incurable diseases, of of these quote incurable diseases, of the root causes and how to restore the root causes and how to restore the root causes and how to restore normal function. And you jokingly or I'm normal function. And you jokingly or I'm normal function. And you jokingly or I'm not so joking, you talked about creating not so joking, you talked about creating not so joking, you talked about creating an epidemic of health, which is amazing. an epidemic of health, which is amazing. an epidemic of health, which is amazing. That's something that doctors know That's something that doctors know That's something that doctors know nothing about, which is what creates a nothing about, which is what creates a nothing about, which is what creates a healthy human. And part of your recovery healthy human. And part of your recovery healthy human. And part of your recovery was really understanding the was really understanding the was really understanding the fundamentals of health so you could help fundamentals of health so you could help fundamentals of health so you could help restore health as opposed to suppress or restore health as opposed to suppress or restore health as opposed to suppress or inhibit or block some pathway inhibit or block some pathway inhibit or block some pathway that was causing inflammation, that was that was causing inflammation, that was that was causing inflammation, that was affecting your nerves. affecting your nerves. affecting your nerves. And you approached it very differently. And you approached it very differently. And you approached it very differently. So So So talk about the the frameworks of from talk about the the frameworks of from talk about the the frameworks of from the basic science perspective cuz you the basic science perspective cuz you the basic science perspective cuz you and I both trained as academically and I both trained as academically and I both trained as academically trained physicians. We both done trained physicians. We both done trained physicians. We both done research. We both have worked in major research. We both have worked in major research. We both have worked in major institutions. You know, I was at institutions. You know, I was at institutions. You know, I was at Cleveland Clinic, you you were at the VA Cleveland Clinic, you you were at the VA Cleveland Clinic, you you were at the VA and other other academic centers. and other other academic centers. and other other academic centers. And yet, you know, there's there's just And yet, you know, there's there's just And yet, you know, there's there's just this incredible this incredible this incredible sluggishness in medicine to help people sluggishness in medicine to help people sluggishness in medicine to help people understand that there is understand that there is understand that there is potential for healing and repair from potential for healing and repair from potential for healing and repair from things that most of us as doctors were things that most of us as doctors were things that most of us as doctors were trained are not curable. trained are not curable. trained are not curable. >> So what my first aha, >> So what my first aha, >> So what my first aha, when I was reading the uh when I was reading the uh when I was reading the uh basic uh papers from um basic uh papers from um basic uh papers from um Dr. Flint Beal, who's a neurologist and Dr. Flint Beal, who's a neurologist and Dr. Flint Beal, who's a neurologist and Dr. Bruce Ames, who's a nutritional Dr. Bruce Ames, who's a nutritional Dr. Bruce Ames, who's a nutritional biochemist. And they were talking about biochemist. And they were talking about biochemist. And they were talking about uh mitochondrial function. uh mitochondrial function. uh mitochondrial function. And that when the mitochondria are not And that when the mitochondria are not And that when the mitochondria are not working well, we don't make enough ATP, working well, we don't make enough ATP, working well, we don't make enough ATP, so we we can't drive the biochemical so we we can't drive the biochemical so we we can't drive the biochemical reactions as thoroughly in the brain, reactions as thoroughly in the brain, reactions as thoroughly in the brain, which leads to neurodegeneration. So, which leads to neurodegeneration. So, which leads to neurodegeneration. So, more uh Alzheimer's, more Parkinson's, more uh Alzheimer's, more Parkinson's, more uh Alzheimer's, more Parkinson's, uh and I'm thinking and more progressive uh and I'm thinking and more progressive uh and I'm thinking and more progressive MS, because that's uh what was my MS, because that's uh what was my MS, because that's uh what was my suffering. Uh more anxiety and suffering. Uh more anxiety and suffering. Uh more anxiety and depression. And I had had depression all depression. And I had had depression all depression. And I had had depression all of my life. And so, I'm like, "Okay, I of my life. And so, I'm like, "Okay, I of my life. And so, I'm like, "Okay, I got to get my mitochondria tuned up." got to get my mitochondria tuned up." got to get my mitochondria tuned up." So, then I started uh reading articles So, then I started uh reading articles So, then I started uh reading articles that were focused on mitochondrial that were focused on mitochondrial that were focused on mitochondrial function. function. function. And you know, gradually I would add And you know, gradually I would add And you know, gradually I would add supplements for my mitochondria. supplements for my mitochondria. supplements for my mitochondria. You know, and Mark, after a few months, You know, and Mark, after a few months, You know, and Mark, after a few months, I think 6 months of these uh my initial I think 6 months of these uh my initial I think 6 months of these uh my initial supplement experimentation, I said, supplement experimentation, I said, supplement experimentation, I said, "You know, I'm wasting my money." And I "You know, I'm wasting my money." And I "You know, I'm wasting my money." And I so I stopped. so I stopped. so I stopped. Uh in 36 hours, I I could not get up out Uh in 36 hours, I I could not get up out Uh in 36 hours, I I could not get up out of bed to go to work. of bed to go to work. of bed to go to work. Uh Uh Uh and at 72 hours, my uh and at 72 hours, my uh and at 72 hours, my uh my spouse, Jackie, came in and she said, my spouse, Jackie, came in and she said, my spouse, Jackie, came in and she said, "You know, "You know, "You know, um Terry, why don't you take these um Terry, why don't you take these um Terry, why don't you take these again?" So, I took them. Uh and the next again?" So, I took them. Uh and the next again?" So, I took them. Uh and the next morning, I was like, "Well, I could get morning, I was like, "Well, I could get morning, I was like, "Well, I could get up and go to work." So, you know, I'm up and go to work." So, you know, I'm up and go to work." So, you know, I'm still tired, but I'm back to my usual still tired, but I'm back to my usual still tired, but I'm back to my usual level of fatigue. level of fatigue. level of fatigue. So, I was pretty jazzed by that. Uh and So, I was pretty jazzed by that. Uh and So, I was pretty jazzed by that. Uh and 2 weeks later, I said, "Well, let's 2 weeks later, I said, "Well, let's 2 weeks later, I said, "Well, let's let's test that again." So, I stopped my let's test that again." So, I stopped my let's test that again." So, I stopped my supplements and at 36 hours, I supplements and at 36 hours, I supplements and at 36 hours, I completely crashed, couldn't function. I completely crashed, couldn't function. I completely crashed, couldn't function. I waited my 72 hours, took my supplements waited my 72 hours, took my supplements waited my 72 hours, took my supplements again. And the next morning, I could get again. And the next morning, I could get again. And the next morning, I could get get up and go to work. And uh so, after get up and go to work. And uh so, after get up and go to work. And uh so, after that, I was so excited to be reading the that, I was so excited to be reading the that, I was so excited to be reading the basic science. I uh and I was a member basic science. I uh and I was a member basic science. I uh and I was a member of the Institutional Review Board of the Institutional Review Board of the Institutional Review Board reviewing clinical research. reviewing clinical research. reviewing clinical research. And I said, "Please give me for the And I said, "Please give me for the And I said, "Please give me for the studies for me to review, studies uh studies for me to review, studies uh studies for me to review, studies uh involving the brain." Uh and so, I got involving the brain." Uh and so, I got involving the brain." Uh and so, I got better and better at reading uh basic better and better at reading uh basic better and better at reading uh basic science and clinical research. science and clinical research. science and clinical research. >> For over 50 years, we've been told to >> For over 50 years, we've been told to >> For over 50 years, we've been told to avoid full-fat dairy to protect our avoid full-fat dairy to protect our avoid full-fat dairy to protect our long-term heart and metabolic health. long-term heart and metabolic health. long-term heart and metabolic health. 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Yeah, and it's so important because because this the smoke important because because this the smoke important because because this the smoke signals are there and you know, when you signals are there and you know, when you signals are there and you know, when you when you talk about mitochondrial when you talk about mitochondrial when you talk about mitochondrial dysfunction, we've had a number of dysfunction, we've had a number of dysfunction, we've had a number of podcasts across the spectrum of podcasts across the spectrum of podcasts across the spectrum of different experts on mitochondria. different experts on mitochondria. different experts on mitochondria. But these are the little But these are the little But these are the little powerhouses in your cells that turn food powerhouses in your cells that turn food powerhouses in your cells that turn food and oxygen into energy, but they do so and oxygen into energy, but they do so and oxygen into energy, but they do so much more than that. And they're so much more than that. And they're so much more than that. And they're so sensitive and they're affected by what sensitive and they're affected by what sensitive and they're affected by what we eat, they're affected by stress, we eat, they're affected by stress, we eat, they're affected by stress, they're affected by our microbiome, by they're affected by our microbiome, by they're affected by our microbiome, by environmental toxins, environmental toxins, environmental toxins, by by by pollution, by so much that is some of pollution, by so much that is some of pollution, by so much that is some of which we have control over, some of which we have control over, some of which we have control over, some of which we don't. which we don't. which we don't. But but as we're beginning to understand But but as we're beginning to understand But but as we're beginning to understand the kind of fundamental common the kind of fundamental common the kind of fundamental common features among all these different features among all these different features among all these different conditions, instead of the reductionism conditions, instead of the reductionism conditions, instead of the reductionism of medicine, which is sort of how of medicine, which is sort of how of medicine, which is sort of how medicine is organized with specialties medicine is organized with specialties medicine is organized with specialties and siloed experts, where you have a and siloed experts, where you have a and siloed experts, where you have a doctor for every inch of you, we're now doctor for every inch of you, we're now doctor for every inch of you, we're now learning that the the common pathways learning that the the common pathways learning that the the common pathways are are there's very few, and are are there's very few, and are are there's very few, and mitochondria is one of those, and we're mitochondria is one of those, and we're mitochondria is one of those, and we're seeing this now with Chris Palmer's seeing this now with Chris Palmer's seeing this now with Chris Palmer's work, who's been on the podcast about work, who's been on the podcast about work, who's been on the podcast about mental health and schizophrenia and mental health and schizophrenia and mental health and schizophrenia and bipolar disease using mitochondrial bipolar disease using mitochondrial bipolar disease using mitochondrial therapies. We're seeing it with therapies. We're seeing it with therapies. We're seeing it with diabetes and reversing diabetes using diabetes and reversing diabetes using diabetes and reversing diabetes using ketogenic diets, which revitalize ketogenic diets, which revitalize ketogenic diets, which revitalize mitochondria, which are dysfunctional in mitochondria, which are dysfunctional in mitochondria, which are dysfunctional in diabetics. We're seeing it in diabetics. We're seeing it in diabetics. We're seeing it in MS as as you've shown, we're seeing it MS as as you've shown, we're seeing it MS as as you've shown, we're seeing it in Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's. in Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's. in Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's. We're seeing it in autism. And all these We're seeing it in autism. And all these We're seeing it in autism. And all these are are different manifestations of are are different manifestations of are are different manifestations of common underlying dysfunctions. In order common underlying dysfunctions. In order common underlying dysfunctions. In order to actually recover from these things, to actually recover from these things, to actually recover from these things, you have to, you know, create health. you have to, you know, create health. you have to, you know, create health. And that means removing the causes and And that means removing the causes and And that means removing the causes and adding in the ingredients. And then you adding in the ingredients. And then you adding in the ingredients. And then you were mentioning your supplements, but were mentioning your supplements, but were mentioning your supplements, but imagine you were talking about imagine you were talking about imagine you were talking about mitochondrial therapies that you were mitochondrial therapies that you were mitochondrial therapies that you were taking, whether it's CoQ10 or carnitine taking, whether it's CoQ10 or carnitine taking, whether it's CoQ10 or carnitine or ribose or creatine or other things or ribose or creatine or other things or ribose or creatine or other things that are part of the body's own that are part of the body's own that are part of the body's own physiology and actually taking physiology and actually taking physiology and actually taking food and oxygen and turning them to food and oxygen and turning them to food and oxygen and turning them to energy. It's like an assembly line and energy. It's like an assembly line and energy. It's like an assembly line and you need all these different helpers and you need all these different helpers and you need all these different helpers and factors. And if you're lower deficient factors. And if you're lower deficient factors. And if you're lower deficient or you have an exceptional need for them or you have an exceptional need for them or you have an exceptional need for them because of some because of some because of some insult or pathway that's being insult or pathway that's being insult or pathway that's being interrupted, you you can you can interrupted, you you can you can interrupted, you you can you can actually help your biology recover by actually help your biology recover by actually help your biology recover by providing those things plus the dietary providing those things plus the dietary providing those things plus the dietary interventions. In terms of like the this interventions. In terms of like the this interventions. In terms of like the this sort of mitochondrial sort of thread, sort of mitochondrial sort of thread, sort of mitochondrial sort of thread, can you kind of help us understand that, can you kind of help us understand that, can you kind of help us understand that, how it plays a role, you know, why this how it plays a role, you know, why this how it plays a role, you know, why this reductionism is such a mistake in reductionism is such a mistake in reductionism is such a mistake in medicine and how we need to shift to medicine and how we need to shift to medicine and how we need to shift to thinking about treating systems, not thinking about treating systems, not thinking about treating systems, not just symptoms? just symptoms? just symptoms? >> Any tissue that needs a lots of energy >> Any tissue that needs a lots of energy >> Any tissue that needs a lots of energy needs to have more and more mitochondria needs to have more and more mitochondria needs to have more and more mitochondria packed into those cells. So, your brain, packed into those cells. So, your brain, packed into those cells. So, your brain, um, your retina, and your heart probably um, your retina, and your heart probably um, your retina, and your heart probably have the highest concentration of have the highest concentration of have the highest concentration of mitochondria. mitochondria. mitochondria. Therefore, Therefore, Therefore, having, you know, these targeted having, you know, these targeted having, you know, these targeted supplements and you've uh listed, you supplements and you've uh listed, you supplements and you've uh listed, you know, quite a few, creatine, carnitine, know, quite a few, creatine, carnitine, know, quite a few, creatine, carnitine, lipoic acid, B vitamins, CoQ, uh and lipoic acid, B vitamins, CoQ, uh and lipoic acid, B vitamins, CoQ, uh and probably a basic, uh multivitamin probably a basic, uh multivitamin probably a basic, uh multivitamin mineral, uh magnesium and zinc. That's a mineral, uh magnesium and zinc. That's a mineral, uh magnesium and zinc. That's a that's a great cocktail. that's a great cocktail. that's a great cocktail. And what what I could tell, And what what I could tell, And what what I could tell, you know, even though, you know, I have you know, even though, you know, I have you know, even though, you know, I have this progressive MS, I'm getting this progressive MS, I'm getting this progressive MS, I'm getting steadily worse, steadily worse, steadily worse, that I'm I take my supplement that I'm I take my supplement that I'm I take my supplement mitochondrial supplement cocktail, mitochondrial supplement cocktail, mitochondrial supplement cocktail, my fatigue is less when I take my my fatigue is less when I take my my fatigue is less when I take my supplement cocktail. It's not enough to supplement cocktail. It's not enough to supplement cocktail. It's not enough to get me out of the wheelchair, get me out of the wheelchair, get me out of the wheelchair, but it clearly was enough that I felt but it clearly was enough that I felt but it clearly was enough that I felt much, much better taking it. much, much better taking it. much, much better taking it. What is super interesting, Mark, yeah What is super interesting, Mark, yeah What is super interesting, Mark, yeah and I and I and I I mean, I'd been following the paleo I mean, I'd been following the paleo I mean, I'd been following the paleo diet, so I wasn't eating sugar, I wasn't diet, so I wasn't eating sugar, I wasn't diet, so I wasn't eating sugar, I wasn't eating grains. eating grains. eating grains. Uh and so I had a a really pretty great Uh and so I had a a really pretty great Uh and so I had a a really pretty great diet. diet. diet. But when I redesigned my paleo diet But when I redesigned my paleo diet But when I redesigned my paleo diet based on, again, a review of the basic based on, again, a review of the basic based on, again, a review of the basic science and what I'd learned from science and what I'd learned from science and what I'd learned from functional medicine and my mitochondrial functional medicine and my mitochondrial functional medicine and my mitochondrial supplements, I said, "Where are they in supplements, I said, "Where are they in supplements, I said, "Where are they in the food supply?" the food supply?" the food supply?" I and I had a much more structured paleo I and I had a much more structured paleo I and I had a much more structured paleo diet that emphasized what to eat, diet that emphasized what to eat, diet that emphasized what to eat, not just what to avoid. not just what to avoid. not just what to avoid. That is when the magic really happened. That is when the magic really happened. That is when the magic really happened. And in a breathtakingly, I mean, just And in a breathtakingly, I mean, just And in a breathtakingly, I mean, just extraordinarily extraordinarily extraordinarily speed speed speed to go from being to go from being to go from being unable to sit up unable to sit up unable to sit up to being able to do an 18.5 mile bike to being able to do an 18.5 mile bike to being able to do an 18.5 mile bike ride in 10 months ride in 10 months ride in 10 months is extraordinary. is extraordinary. is extraordinary. >> And that was 18 years ago and you're >> And that was 18 years ago and you're >> And that was 18 years ago and you're still going. still going. still going. >> I'm not collapsing. And yesterday I >> I'm not collapsing. And yesterday I >> I'm not collapsing. And yesterday I jogged on my treadmill. jogged on my treadmill. jogged on my treadmill. And you know, I I thought that would And you know, I I thought that would And you know, I I thought that would never happen. Now that that that did never happen. Now that that that did never happen. Now that that that did happen. I will say that, you know, I'm happen. I will say that, you know, I'm happen. I will say that, you know, I'm now 70. I Like like you, I've had some now 70. I Like like you, I've had some now 70. I Like like you, I've had some additional health challenges. I additional health challenges. I additional health challenges. I got to have a got to have a got to have a GI infection that GI infection that GI infection that got me really quite ill over the summer. got me really quite ill over the summer. got me really quite ill over the summer. And And And fortunately I'm now on the other side of fortunately I'm now on the other side of fortunately I'm now on the other side of that. I'm back to gain weight and doing that. I'm back to gain weight and doing that. I'm back to gain weight and doing well. well. well. So So So things still happen. I still have to be things still happen. I still have to be things still happen. I still have to be alert. I still have to think about my alert. I still have to think about my alert. I still have to think about my functional medicine perspective when functional medicine perspective when functional medicine perspective when stuff happens and I become ill. stuff happens and I become ill. stuff happens and I become ill. And I see my conventional physicians And I see my conventional physicians And I see my conventional physicians follow their advice and then I go see my follow their advice and then I go see my follow their advice and then I go see my functional medicine physicians and you functional medicine physicians and you functional medicine physicians and you know what? Here's what I think they're know what? Here's what I think they're know what? Here's what I think they're missing. missing. missing. And then we you know, we figured out and And then we you know, we figured out and And then we you know, we figured out and then we get to the bottom and you know, then we get to the bottom and you know, then we get to the bottom and you know, I I get recovered from my functional I I get recovered from my functional I I get recovered from my functional medicine approach and then my medicine approach and then my medicine approach and then my conventional doc goes, "Huh. conventional doc goes, "Huh. conventional doc goes, "Huh. Well, I guess you are better now." Well, I guess you are better now." Well, I guess you are better now." >> What what I >> What what I >> What what I want to what you kind of did dive in on want to what you kind of did dive in on want to what you kind of did dive in on and I think this is this is where I and I think this is this is where I and I think this is this is where I think most people who talk about, you think most people who talk about, you think most people who talk about, you know, eating healthy or food as medicine know, eating healthy or food as medicine know, eating healthy or food as medicine don't really fully understand don't really fully understand don't really fully understand the the granularity of what that means. the the granularity of what that means. the the granularity of what that means. In other words In other words In other words just as though we have hundreds of just as though we have hundreds of just as though we have hundreds of different drugs or thousands maybe now different drugs or thousands maybe now different drugs or thousands maybe now and they're different drugs for and they're different drugs for and they're different drugs for different problems. different problems. different problems. In the same way food is a drug. And it's In the same way food is a drug. And it's In the same way food is a drug. And it's not just a metaphorical drug, it's an not just a metaphorical drug, it's an not just a metaphorical drug, it's an actual drug and there are many types of actual drug and there are many types of actual drug and there are many types of food and therefore there are many drugs food and therefore there are many drugs food and therefore there are many drugs and not and not and not every condition re- every condition re- every condition re- requires the same drug. And so with with requires the same drug. And so with with requires the same drug. And so with with food, when you're treating patients with food, when you're treating patients with food, when you're treating patients with food as medicine, food as medicine, food as medicine, different conditions require different different conditions require different different conditions require different diets and what you what you hinted at diets and what you what you hinted at diets and what you what you hinted at and I think it's important to double and I think it's important to double and I think it's important to double click on this and I think it was quite click on this and I think it was quite click on this and I think it was quite brilliant which was you're like, "How do brilliant which was you're like, "How do brilliant which was you're like, "How do I look at the potential pharmacopia in I look at the potential pharmacopia in I look at the potential pharmacopia in food food food and design my diet to maximize the and design my diet to maximize the and design my diet to maximize the levels of nutrients that I know I levels of nutrients that I know I levels of nutrients that I know I biologically need based on my biologically need based on my biologically need based on my condition." That's that was a profound condition." That's that was a profound condition." That's that was a profound insight and I I had one patient who's insight and I I had one patient who's insight and I I had one patient who's like, "I don't want to take any vitamins like, "I don't want to take any vitamins like, "I don't want to take any vitamins and I'm going to eat, you know, like to and I'm going to eat, you know, like to and I'm going to eat, you know, like to get all my nutrients." And I'm like, get all my nutrients." And I'm like, get all my nutrients." And I'm like, "All right, it's a lot of work." She's "All right, it's a lot of work." She's "All right, it's a lot of work." She's like, "Well, I'm going to have like 25 like, "Well, I'm going to have like 25 like, "Well, I'm going to have like 25 pumpkin seeds to get enough zinc or I'm pumpkin seeds to get enough zinc or I'm pumpkin seeds to get enough zinc or I'm going to have like three Brazil nuts a going to have like three Brazil nuts a going to have like three Brazil nuts a day to get my selenium." day to get my selenium." day to get my selenium." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And she had all these precious nutrients >> And she had all these precious nutrients >> And she had all these precious nutrients and I'm like, I'm like, "Okay, that's and I'm like, I'm like, "Okay, that's and I'm like, I'm like, "Okay, that's not that easy to do." not that easy to do." not that easy to do." Tell us about the categories of food Tell us about the categories of food Tell us about the categories of food that you realized were so nutrient dense that you realized were so nutrient dense that you realized were so nutrient dense and had such unique nutrients that and had such unique nutrients that and had such unique nutrients that wasn't just about eating a healthy diet wasn't just about eating a healthy diet wasn't just about eating a healthy diet that's plant-rich or that's got quality that's plant-rich or that's got quality that's plant-rich or that's got quality fats or protein, it was more than that. fats or protein, it was more than that. fats or protein, it was more than that. >> So, I had >> So, I had >> So, I had uh 20 nutrients that I identified as uh 20 nutrients that I identified as uh 20 nutrients that I identified as really important and and um some papers really important and and um some papers really important and and um some papers from from from Beal, Beal, Beal, uh from Bowman, uh from Bowman, uh from Bowman, uh from Bruce Ames. uh from Bruce Ames. uh from Bruce Ames. Uh [snorts] and when I first started Uh [snorts] and when I first started Uh [snorts] and when I first started maxi- I wanted to maximize maxi- I wanted to maximize maxi- I wanted to maximize the the the intake of those 20 nutrients. intake of those 20 nutrients. intake of those 20 nutrients. And trying to figure out where they And trying to figure out where they And trying to figure out where they were, I went to the um were, I went to the um were, I went to the um my dieticians. They said, "Oh, that's my dieticians. They said, "Oh, that's my dieticians. They said, "Oh, that's too complicated. I can't do it." I went too complicated. I can't do it." I went too complicated. I can't do it." I went to the library, it said, "Too to the library, it said, "Too to the library, it said, "Too complicated. Can't do it." Ultimately, I complicated. Can't do it." Ultimately, I complicated. Can't do it." Ultimately, I found the Linus Pauling found the Linus Pauling found the Linus Pauling uh Institute for Micronutrients and that uh Institute for Micronutrients and that uh Institute for Micronutrients and that got me got me got me um uh the way I could identify the key um uh the way I could identify the key um uh the way I could identify the key food sources for those 20 nutrients that food sources for those 20 nutrients that food sources for those 20 nutrients that I'm tracking. And then Mark So I use I'm tracking. And then Mark So I use I'm tracking. And then Mark So I use that for my recovery and I had these that for my recovery and I had these that for my recovery and I had these food lists that I was following. food lists that I was following. food lists that I was following. But But But when I had my own personal recovery, I when I had my own personal recovery, I when I had my own personal recovery, I wanted to use this in my clinics, Mark. wanted to use this in my clinics, Mark. wanted to use this in my clinics, Mark. And I had in my traumatic brain injury And I had in my traumatic brain injury And I had in my traumatic brain injury clinic, I had 20 minutes with the clinic, I had 20 minutes with the clinic, I had 20 minutes with the veteran. veteran. veteran. When I was staffing residents with the When I was staffing residents with the When I was staffing residents with the primary care clinic, now I only had 5 primary care clinic, now I only had 5 primary care clinic, now I only had 5 minutes with the veterans. minutes with the veterans. minutes with the veterans. So I had to think deeply like I wanted So I had to think deeply like I wanted So I had to think deeply like I wanted to create a memorable food role to create a memorable food role to create a memorable food role to help my veterans remember how to eat. to help my veterans remember how to eat. to help my veterans remember how to eat. And now it's ended up, you know, And now it's ended up, you know, And now it's ended up, you know, creating basically the Walls diet, creating basically the Walls diet, creating basically the Walls diet, the Walls Paleo diet, ketogenic version the Walls Paleo diet, ketogenic version the Walls Paleo diet, ketogenic version of the same. So that I could teach it in of the same. So that I could teach it in of the same. So that I could teach it in just a few minutes. Do you want me to just a few minutes. Do you want me to just a few minutes. Do you want me to highlight that for your audience now? highlight that for your audience now? highlight that for your audience now? >> Yes, yes. And I think I think like you >> Yes, yes. And I think I think like you >> Yes, yes. And I think I think like you know, you talk about organ meats, you know, you talk about organ meats, you know, you talk about organ meats, you talk about mushrooms, you talk about, talk about mushrooms, you talk about, talk about mushrooms, you talk about, you know, specific foods you know, specific foods you know, specific foods >> go through those big categories. The >> go through those big categories. The >> go through those big categories. The green leafy vegetables, they're they're green leafy vegetables, they're they're green leafy vegetables, they're they're great sources of vitamin K, great great sources of vitamin K, great great sources of vitamin K, great sources of sources of sources of some particular carotenoids some particular carotenoids some particular carotenoids rich in the blue-green pigments, rich in the blue-green pigments, rich in the blue-green pigments, zeaxanthin, meso-zeaxanthin, zeaxanthin, meso-zeaxanthin, zeaxanthin, meso-zeaxanthin, lutein, which are concentrated in the lutein, which are concentrated in the lutein, which are concentrated in the macula that protect the eye macula that protect the eye macula that protect the eye from the blue light. from the blue light. from the blue light. It also protect the retina and protect It also protect the retina and protect It also protect the retina and protect the brain. the brain. the brain. Great sources of calcium and magnesium. Great sources of calcium and magnesium. Great sources of calcium and magnesium. Then we look at the cabbage family, and onions. They induce glutathione, the and onions. They induce glutathione, the master antioxidant in the cells, and master antioxidant in the cells, and master antioxidant in the cells, and help support detoxification, and support help support detoxification, and support help support detoxification, and support the NRF2 pathways to lower inflammation. the NRF2 pathways to lower inflammation. the NRF2 pathways to lower inflammation. The mushrooms, The mushrooms, The mushrooms, which I also recommend, boost which I also recommend, boost which I also recommend, boost lower anxiety, depression, lower the lower anxiety, depression, lower the lower anxiety, depression, lower the risk of cognitive decline. The bright risk of cognitive decline. The bright risk of cognitive decline. The bright colors, mushrooms. All All culinary colors, mushrooms. All All culinary colors, mushrooms. All All culinary mushrooms. You just want to be sure that mushrooms. You just want to be sure that mushrooms. You just want to be sure that they aren't poisonous. they aren't poisonous. they aren't poisonous. So, don't Don't Don't go collect So, don't Don't Don't go collect So, don't Don't Don't go collect mushrooms on yourself unless you are mushrooms on yourself unless you are mushrooms on yourself unless you are really expert uh mushroom hunter because really expert uh mushroom hunter because really expert uh mushroom hunter because there are mushrooms that will kill you. there are mushrooms that will kill you. there are mushrooms that will kill you. So, you know, just be sure that you have So, you know, just be sure that you have So, you know, just be sure that you have culinary mushrooms and have a a wide culinary mushrooms and have a a wide culinary mushrooms and have a a wide variety of culinary mushrooms. variety of culinary mushrooms. variety of culinary mushrooms. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> And then the brightly colored, you know, >> And then the brightly colored, you know, >> And then the brightly colored, you know, carrots, beets, peppers, tomatoes. Uh carrots, beets, peppers, tomatoes. Uh carrots, beets, peppers, tomatoes. Uh these carotenoids are linked with lower these carotenoids are linked with lower these carotenoids are linked with lower risks of um risks of um risks of um diabetes, obesity, cancer, heart diabetes, obesity, cancer, heart diabetes, obesity, cancer, heart disease, all cause mortality, disease, all cause mortality, disease, all cause mortality, particularly blue, purple, black. Uh particularly blue, purple, black. Uh particularly blue, purple, black. Uh again, lower risk of anxiety, again, lower risk of anxiety, again, lower risk of anxiety, depression, cognitive decline. depression, cognitive decline. depression, cognitive decline. So, So, So, uh those are nine cups of vegetables uh those are nine cups of vegetables uh those are nine cups of vegetables um measured raw. Uh you can have them um measured raw. Uh you can have them um measured raw. Uh you can have them raw or cooked. raw or cooked. raw or cooked. >> Okay, just just stop there for a sec. >> Okay, just just stop there for a sec. >> Okay, just just stop there for a sec. So, nine cups of vegetables. So, nine cups of vegetables. So, nine cups of vegetables. >> Per day. >> Per day. >> Per day. >> Per day. Now, I was trying to help >> Per day. Now, I was trying to help >> Per day. Now, I was trying to help encourage the dietary guidelines to have encourage the dietary guidelines to have encourage the dietary guidelines to have like like like you know, like at least nine servings, you know, like at least nine servings, you know, like at least nine servings, which is basically a half a cup. which is basically a half a cup. which is basically a half a cup. And they didn't recommend that much, And they didn't recommend that much, And they didn't recommend that much, unfortunately. unfortunately. unfortunately. But, you're talking about 18 cups. So, a But, you're talking about 18 cups. So, a But, you're talking about 18 cups. So, a serving of vegetables is half a cup, and serving of vegetables is half a cup, and serving of vegetables is half a cup, and you're talking about nine cups. That's you're talking about nine cups. That's you're talking about nine cups. That's 18 cups of vegetables a day. That's 18 cups of vegetables a day. That's 18 cups of vegetables a day. That's That's a an enormous amount. And how did That's a an enormous amount. And how did That's a an enormous amount. And how did you do that? you do that? you do that? >> You know, it's super fascinating. >> You know, it's super fascinating. >> You know, it's super fascinating. Um when I first started doing this, I Um when I first started doing this, I Um when I first started doing this, I was probably having six cups of uh kale, was probably having six cups of uh kale, was probably having six cups of uh kale, uh collards, uh mustard greens every uh collards, uh mustard greens every uh collards, uh mustard greens every day. Uh and I probably had that for day. Uh and I probably had that for day. Uh and I probably had that for about 4 years. about 4 years. about 4 years. And then after 4 years, And then after 4 years, And then after 4 years, uh I didn't need quite that amount. I'm uh I didn't need quite that amount. I'm uh I didn't need quite that amount. I'm guessing I had this huge nutritional guessing I had this huge nutritional guessing I had this huge nutritional deficit that I finally got caught up deficit that I finally got caught up deficit that I finally got caught up after 4 years' worth. after 4 years' worth. after 4 years' worth. Uh and remember, I I'm I'm practicing Uh and remember, I I'm I'm practicing Uh and remember, I I'm I'm practicing the V I. I didn't want my men to be the V I. I didn't want my men to be the V I. I didn't want my men to be hungry. hungry. hungry. Uh and so, Uh and so, Uh and so, I I wanted them to eat all these I I wanted them to eat all these I I wanted them to eat all these vegetables, have um vegetables, have um vegetables, have um at least 6 to 12 oz of meat fish every at least 6 to 12 oz of meat fish every at least 6 to 12 oz of meat fish every day. They can have more if they wanted. day. They can have more if they wanted. day. They can have more if they wanted. Uh and I didn't want them to have sugar Uh and I didn't want them to have sugar Uh and I didn't want them to have sugar and white flour. and white flour. and white flour. >> I think the the specificity is really >> I think the the specificity is really >> I think the the specificity is really important and the important and the important and the the granularity of it is important. Now the granularity of it is important. Now the granularity of it is important. Now there there are some just general there there are some just general there there are some just general principles, but you're eating a diet principles, but you're eating a diet principles, but you're eating a diet that's supporting all your basic that's supporting all your basic that's supporting all your basic biological functions, that's supporting biological functions, that's supporting biological functions, that's supporting your gut microbiome, that's reducing your gut microbiome, that's reducing your gut microbiome, that's reducing inflammation, that's helping inflammation, that's helping inflammation, that's helping detoxification, that's enhancing your detoxification, that's enhancing your detoxification, that's enhancing your mitochondria, that's providing immune mitochondria, that's providing immune mitochondria, that's providing immune modulating compounds and and like the modulating compounds and and like the modulating compounds and and like the polysaccharides in mushrooms. And so, polysaccharides in mushrooms. And so, polysaccharides in mushrooms. And so, you know, we we have the science to you know, we we have the science to you know, we we have the science to understand these things. But but again, understand these things. But but again, understand these things. But but again, it's something that's just a big black it's something that's just a big black it's something that's just a big black hole in medicine, which is completely hole in medicine, which is completely hole in medicine, which is completely ignored. And you know, you'd think that ignored. And you know, you'd think that ignored. And you know, you'd think that your story which is now widely known, your story which is now widely known, your story which is now widely known, you have a popular TED Talk, you have you have a popular TED Talk, you have you have a popular TED Talk, you have best-selling books, you'd think that the best-selling books, you'd think that the best-selling books, you'd think that the NIH would be banging down your door. NIH would be banging down your door. NIH would be banging down your door. That they'd be like they'd be like, That they'd be like they'd be like, That they'd be like they'd be like, "Here's $100 million." "Here's $100 million." "Here's $100 million." Terry, like let's figure this out. It's Terry, like let's figure this out. It's Terry, like let's figure this out. It's just striking to me that that it's just just striking to me that that it's just just striking to me that that it's just such a it's it's such a resistance to such a it's it's such a resistance to such a it's it's such a resistance to change. And I and I see this, you know, change. And I and I see this, you know, change. And I and I see this, you know, my practice too. I see miracles after my practice too. I see miracles after my practice too. I see miracles after miracle, but they're not. They're just miracle, but they're not. They're just miracle, but they're not. They're just the the the deliberate application of the deliberate application of the deliberate application of the fundamental principles of biology to fundamental principles of biology to fundamental principles of biology to chronic disease in ways that we're chronic disease in ways that we're chronic disease in ways that we're trained in functional medicine, but trained in functional medicine, but trained in functional medicine, but they're not widely appreciated. But I they're not widely appreciated. But I they're not widely appreciated. But I don't know if you know this, but don't know if you know this, but don't know if you know this, but and maybe you should actually apply for and maybe you should actually apply for and maybe you should actually apply for this. this. this. Medicare, the Center for Medicare and Medicare, the Center for Medicare and Medicare, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation, I've been helping Medicaid Innovation, I've been helping Medicaid Innovation, I've been helping and trying to advise them. They have now and trying to advise them. They have now and trying to advise them. They have now put forth $100 million put forth $100 million put forth $100 million to study functional medicine to study functional medicine to study functional medicine and lifestyle medicine and chronic and lifestyle medicine and chronic and lifestyle medicine and chronic disease. disease. disease. Yes, it's called Maha Elevate and Yes, it's called Maha Elevate and Yes, it's called Maha Elevate and anybody listening who's is a functional anybody listening who's is a functional anybody listening who's is a functional medicine practitioner. Yes, who's a medicine practitioner. Yes, who's a medicine practitioner. Yes, who's a functional medicine practitioner who's functional medicine practitioner who's functional medicine practitioner who's doing research, who wants to research. doing research, who wants to research. doing research, who wants to research. The government is now going to fund over The government is now going to fund over The government is now going to fund over the next 3 years probably about 30 the next 3 years probably about 30 the next 3 years probably about 30 projects, $3 million each to to sort of projects, $3 million each to to sort of projects, $3 million each to to sort of show that oh wait, rather than the show that oh wait, rather than the show that oh wait, rather than the I mean, these drugs that you were I mean, these drugs that you were I mean, these drugs that you were talking about that you're on are so talking about that you're on are so talking about that you're on are so expensive. You know, the autoimmune expensive. You know, the autoimmune expensive. You know, the autoimmune drugs are just, you know, so powerful drugs are just, you know, so powerful drugs are just, you know, so powerful and so and so and so >> $90,000 a year. >> $90,000 a year. >> $90,000 a year. >> I mean, it's a huge cost savings and not >> I mean, it's a huge cost savings and not >> I mean, it's a huge cost savings and not just to mention cost savings. just to mention cost savings. just to mention cost savings. I mean, look at your life, Terry. Your I mean, look at your life, Terry. Your I mean, look at your life, Terry. Your life is an example. You were in a life is an example. You were in a life is an example. You were in a wheelchair wheelchair wheelchair in 2007. in 2007. in 2007. Your life was, you know, Your life was, you know, Your life was, you know, I would say very reduced in terms of the I would say very reduced in terms of the I would say very reduced in terms of the quality of your life, your capacity to quality of your life, your capacity to quality of your life, your capacity to function, your ability to engage, your function, your ability to engage, your function, your ability to engage, your ability to contribute in the world. ability to contribute in the world. ability to contribute in the world. And look at just one person, what you've And look at just one person, what you've And look at just one person, what you've done in your recovery that you've had done in your recovery that you've had done in your recovery that you've had to actually change the world, like to to actually change the world, like to to actually change the world, like to actually make a difference in how people actually make a difference in how people actually make a difference in how people think. It's just extraordinary. You think. It's just extraordinary. You think. It's just extraordinary. You know, I I was the same way. I was I was know, I I was the same way. I was I was know, I I was the same way. I was I was about to go on disability when I was 37 about to go on disability when I was 37 about to go on disability when I was 37 years old from chronic fatigue syndrome years old from chronic fatigue syndrome years old from chronic fatigue syndrome and I had mercury poisoning. I couldn't and I had mercury poisoning. I couldn't and I had mercury poisoning. I couldn't function. function. function. I was so ill and I thank God found the I was so ill and I thank God found the I was so ill and I thank God found the same thing. I I started to learn about same thing. I I started to learn about same thing. I I started to learn about this and started to try it on myself and this and started to try it on myself and this and started to try it on myself and I started to slowly recover and I went I started to slowly recover and I went I started to slowly recover and I went from doing all that to, you know, from doing all that to, you know, from doing all that to, you know, actually being back back in better shape actually being back back in better shape actually being back back in better shape than I've ever been in my life at 66. than I've ever been in my life at 66. than I've ever been in my life at 66. And and that's really possible if you And and that's really possible if you And and that's really possible if you know how the body works. know how the body works. know how the body works. >> I mean, I I too was, you know, clearly >> I mean, I I too was, you know, clearly >> I mean, I I too was, you know, clearly expecting I was going to finally have to expecting I was going to finally have to expecting I was going to finally have to apply for medical disability in 2008. apply for medical disability in 2008. apply for medical disability in 2008. I unfortunately I unfortunately I unfortunately I when I just had my performance review, I when I just had my performance review, I when I just had my performance review, you know, my boss was asking me, "So, you know, my boss was asking me, "So, you know, my boss was asking me, "So, Terry, how long are you going to work?" Terry, how long are you going to work?" Terry, how long are you going to work?" I said, "Well, I said, "Well, I said, "Well, you know, I sort of like um Linus you know, I sort of like um Linus you know, I sort of like um Linus Pauling. I want to be giving lectures to Pauling. I want to be giving lectures to Pauling. I want to be giving lectures to standing room only audiences in my 90s standing room only audiences in my 90s standing room only audiences in my 90s uh uh and continuing to change the uh uh and continuing to change the uh uh and continuing to change the world. So, my goal is to thrive to 120. world. So, my goal is to thrive to 120. world. So, my goal is to thrive to 120. We'll see." We'll see." We'll see." >> The condition that the conditions that >> The condition that the conditions that >> The condition that the conditions that you're talking about are so prevalent, you're talking about are so prevalent, you're talking about are so prevalent, right? And you you lump them all right? And you you lump them all right? And you you lump them all together. together. together. You You're talking about you know, You You're talking about you know, You You're talking about you know, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Lewy body, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Lewy body, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Lewy body, frontotemporal dementia, all the frontotemporal dementia, all the frontotemporal dementia, all the dementias you're talking about. dementias you're talking about. dementias you're talking about. >> Anxiety. >> Anxiety. >> Anxiety. >> MS, you're talking about ALS. I mean, >> MS, you're talking about ALS. I mean, >> MS, you're talking about ALS. I mean, obviously the depression, anxiety, obviously the depression, anxiety, obviously the depression, anxiety, mental mental illness is just the scope mental mental illness is just the scope mental mental illness is just the scope is amazing. is amazing. is amazing. 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You know, what I'm curious about is You know, what I'm curious about is You know, what I'm curious about is you're now expanding your work to you're now expanding your work to you're now expanding your work to include other conditions, right? You're include other conditions, right? You're include other conditions, right? You're not just focusing on MS. So, can you not just focusing on MS. So, can you not just focusing on MS. So, can you talk about some of your work and how it talk about some of your work and how it talk about some of your work and how it applies and what you're seeing and what applies and what you're seeing and what applies and what you're seeing and what you're you're doing in the clinical you're you're doing in the clinical you're you're doing in the clinical world because it's one thing to be a world because it's one thing to be a world because it's one thing to be a doctor like me, you know, I was at doctor like me, you know, I was at doctor like me, you know, I was at Cleveland Clinic, we did a lot of work Cleveland Clinic, we did a lot of work Cleveland Clinic, we did a lot of work there, but mostly I'm on the outside of there, but mostly I'm on the outside of there, but mostly I'm on the outside of the traditional health care system, but the traditional health care system, but the traditional health care system, but you're in it you're in it you're in it and you're all you're you're you're and you're all you're you're you're and you're all you're you're you're doing academic research and you're doing academic research and you're doing academic research and you're you're running groups and you're running you're running groups and you're running you're running groups and you're running research studies. Tell us tell us what research studies. Tell us tell us what research studies. Tell us tell us what you're finding in this sort of the next you're finding in this sort of the next you're finding in this sort of the next sort of evolution of your work since we sort of evolution of your work since we sort of evolution of your work since we talked to you last. talked to you last. talked to you last. >> So, in the traumatic brain injury clinic >> So, in the traumatic brain injury clinic >> So, in the traumatic brain injury clinic where I practiced for 3 years, where I practiced for 3 years, where I practiced for 3 years, we we saw people who had a traumatic we we saw people who had a traumatic we we saw people who had a traumatic brain injury, usually had PTSD. brain injury, usually had PTSD. brain injury, usually had PTSD. And as I taught them to improve their And as I taught them to improve their And as I taught them to improve their diet, add some stress reduction, get a diet, add some stress reduction, get a diet, add some stress reduction, get a step counter, they remarkably stabilized step counter, they remarkably stabilized step counter, they remarkably stabilized their symptoms and improved. Then the VA their symptoms and improved. Then the VA their symptoms and improved. Then the VA at that same time saw us having at that same time saw us having at that same time saw us having tremendous success in primary care tremendous success in primary care tremendous success in primary care and pulled me out of my primary care and pulled me out of my primary care and pulled me out of my primary care clinic and let me establish a new clinic and let me establish a new clinic and let me establish a new clinic, the therapeutic Lifestyle clinic, the therapeutic Lifestyle clinic, the therapeutic Lifestyle Clinic. Clinic. Clinic. Uh and in that we I got to design the Uh and in that we I got to design the Uh and in that we I got to design the clinic. clinic. clinic. Um so I had a dietitian work with me. Um so I had a dietitian work with me. Um so I had a dietitian work with me. Uh and I went to primary care specialty Uh and I went to primary care specialty Uh and I went to primary care specialty medicine. medicine. medicine. Uh Uh Uh and invited them to give me their most and invited them to give me their most and invited them to give me their most difficult cases, Mark. Uh and said, you difficult cases, Mark. Uh and said, you difficult cases, Mark. Uh and said, you know, I'm not going to use drugs. We're know, I'm not going to use drugs. We're know, I'm not going to use drugs. We're just going to use diet and lifestyle just going to use diet and lifestyle just going to use diet and lifestyle medicine. medicine. medicine. And we had a handful of cases at first, And we had a handful of cases at first, And we had a handful of cases at first, had success. had success. had success. And then steadily grew and grew and And then steadily grew and grew and And then steadily grew and grew and grew. And I kept having to redesign my grew. And I kept having to redesign my grew. And I kept having to redesign my clinic clinic clinic uh from small group to large group to uh from small group to large group to uh from small group to large group to small classes to large classes to very small classes to large classes to very small classes to large classes to very large classes. large classes. large classes. To then I um decided to leave the VA and To then I um decided to leave the VA and To then I um decided to leave the VA and begin, you know, teaching uh the world begin, you know, teaching uh the world begin, you know, teaching uh the world and what I what I saw was that people and what I what I saw was that people and what I what I saw was that people would come to the um Therapeutic would come to the um Therapeutic would come to the um Therapeutic Lifestyle Clinic Lifestyle Clinic Lifestyle Clinic usually on 15 to 30 prescription drugs. usually on 15 to 30 prescription drugs. usually on 15 to 30 prescription drugs. They would have multiple diagnoses, They would have multiple diagnoses, They would have multiple diagnoses, autoimmune diagnoses, obesity, type 2 autoimmune diagnoses, obesity, type 2 autoimmune diagnoses, obesity, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, some sort diabetes, high blood pressure, some sort diabetes, high blood pressure, some sort of mental health problem, so many of mental health problem, so many of mental health problem, so many diagnoses, a wide variety of diagnoses, diagnoses, a wide variety of diagnoses, diagnoses, a wide variety of diagnoses, but the most common symptoms were but the most common symptoms were but the most common symptoms were fatigue, fatigue, fatigue, pain, pain, pain, anxiety or depression, anxiety or depression, anxiety or depression, uh and brain fog. uh and brain fog. uh and brain fog. So these were the symptoms that uh were So these were the symptoms that uh were So these were the symptoms that uh were causing the most suffering. causing the most suffering. causing the most suffering. And as we taught them basically to And as we taught them basically to And as we taught them basically to either adopt a gluten-free, dairy-free, either adopt a gluten-free, dairy-free, either adopt a gluten-free, dairy-free, nutrient-dense nutrient-dense nutrient-dense uh vegetarian diet or a Paleolithic diet uh vegetarian diet or a Paleolithic diet uh vegetarian diet or a Paleolithic diet that within 3 months their fatigue is that within 3 months their fatigue is that within 3 months their fatigue is markedly reduced, their brain fog is markedly reduced, their brain fog is markedly reduced, their brain fog is reduced, and their energy is improved. reduced, and their energy is improved. reduced, and their energy is improved. And we're beginning to see that they we And we're beginning to see that they we And we're beginning to see that they we have to start dialing back on their have to start dialing back on their have to start dialing back on their prescription meds because they're prescription meds because they're prescription meds because they're improving cuz we're creating health. Uh improving cuz we're creating health. Uh improving cuz we're creating health. Uh but I also learned but I also learned but I also learned to now defend my partners by focusing on to now defend my partners by focusing on to now defend my partners by focusing on I'm going to just focus on work on I'm going to just focus on work on I'm going to just focus on work on creating health and we will watch your creating health and we will watch your creating health and we will watch your prescription meds and adjust them prescription meds and adjust them prescription meds and adjust them if in if things begin to improve. So, I if in if things begin to improve. So, I if in if things begin to improve. So, I was very careful to not be treating any was very careful to not be treating any was very careful to not be treating any disease state. I'm simply working on disease state. I'm simply working on disease state. I'm simply working on creating health creating health creating health and watching um for side effects and and watching um for side effects and and watching um for side effects and adjusting meds as needed. And my adjusting meds as needed. And my adjusting meds as needed. And my partners were okay with that message. partners were okay with that message. partners were okay with that message. I did have to you know um deal with some I did have to you know um deal with some I did have to you know um deal with some intense criticism pushback. And so, I intense criticism pushback. And so, I intense criticism pushback. And so, I had to learn how to massage those had to learn how to massage those had to learn how to massage those relationships. relationships. relationships. >> Well, you know, Terry, what you just >> Well, you know, Terry, what you just >> Well, you know, Terry, what you just said is so profound, and I want to I said is so profound, and I want to I said is so profound, and I want to I want to you know, [clears throat] want to you know, [clears throat] want to you know, [clears throat] just take a deeper dive on this because just take a deeper dive on this because just take a deeper dive on this because what traditional medicine does is what traditional medicine does is what traditional medicine does is diagnose and treat disease by some type diagnose and treat disease by some type diagnose and treat disease by some type of of of combination of therapies, whether it's combination of therapies, whether it's combination of therapies, whether it's surgery or medication or radiation to surgery or medication or radiation to surgery or medication or radiation to somehow somehow somehow block or inhibit or interrupt some block or inhibit or interrupt some block or inhibit or interrupt some pathway. Now, surgery is great. I think pathway. Now, surgery is great. I think pathway. Now, surgery is great. I think I've nothing nothing to say bad about I've nothing nothing to say bad about I've nothing nothing to say bad about surgery for the most part. It it's a surgery for the most part. It it's a surgery for the most part. It it's a incredible advance in technology, and incredible advance in technology, and incredible advance in technology, and I've had you know, saved my life many I've had you know, saved my life many I've had you know, saved my life many times. So, I'm not opposed to surgery, times. So, I'm not opposed to surgery, times. So, I'm not opposed to surgery, and I think it's one of those areas of and I think it's one of those areas of and I think it's one of those areas of medicine where medicine where medicine where you know, it we do great at. It's an you know, it we do great at. It's an you know, it we do great at. It's an acute care thing. We replace hips, we acute care thing. We replace hips, we acute care thing. We replace hips, we can replace knees, we can cut out can replace knees, we can cut out can replace knees, we can cut out cancers, we can you know, fix backs, we cancers, we can you know, fix backs, we cancers, we can you know, fix backs, we can do all kinds of stuff. can do all kinds of stuff. can do all kinds of stuff. But when it comes to like But when it comes to like But when it comes to like you know, traditional you know, traditional you know, traditional internal medicine diseases that most internal medicine diseases that most internal medicine diseases that most people suffer from, people suffer from, people suffer from, we we really I think have a have it all we we really I think have a have it all we we really I think have a have it all backwards. And and backwards. And and backwards. And and you kind of did a very kind of polite you kind of did a very kind of polite you kind of did a very kind of polite nice thing saying, "Well, we're just nice thing saying, "Well, we're just nice thing saying, "Well, we're just going to work on creating health going to work on creating health going to work on creating health and not really worry about the diseases. and not really worry about the diseases. and not really worry about the diseases. You focus on the diseases." But the You focus on the diseases." But the You focus on the diseases." But the reality is that the way to treat disease reality is that the way to treat disease reality is that the way to treat disease is by creating health. is by creating health. is by creating health. And the disease goes away as a side And the disease goes away as a side And the disease goes away as a side effect. So, it's like it's kind of like effect. So, it's like it's kind of like effect. So, it's like it's kind of like a little bit um a little bit um a little bit um a little bit surreptitious and sneaky to a little bit surreptitious and sneaky to a little bit surreptitious and sneaky to say that say that say that because it's not offensive, and yet it because it's not offensive, and yet it because it's not offensive, and yet it actually is a thing that has the most actually is a thing that has the most actually is a thing that has the most leverage when it comes to making people leverage when it comes to making people leverage when it comes to making people recover from things that are our quote recover from things that are our quote recover from things that are our quote incurable. And and I think I want you to incurable. And and I think I want you to incurable. And and I think I want you to double click on what do you mean by double click on what do you mean by double click on what do you mean by creating health because creating health because creating health because in functional medicine we don't really in functional medicine we don't really in functional medicine we don't really treat diseases. We create health and treat diseases. We create health and treat diseases. We create health and that's the focus is one of those things that's the focus is one of those things that's the focus is one of those things that impede health and try to remove that impede health and try to remove that impede health and try to remove those and one of those things that those and one of those things that those and one of those things that create health or one of the ingredients create health or one of the ingredients create health or one of the ingredients of health and how do we provide those? of health and how do we provide those? of health and how do we provide those? And that's what we become expert in. We And that's what we become expert in. We And that's what we become expert in. We become expert in identifying what you become expert in identifying what you become expert in identifying what you have too much of or too little of. What have too much of or too little of. What have too much of or too little of. What you have too much of that's disturbing you have too much of that's disturbing you have too much of that's disturbing your system or too little of that you your system or too little of that you your system or too little of that you need to get to thrive. That's what you need to get to thrive. That's what you need to get to thrive. That's what you did for yourself. That's what I've done did for yourself. That's what I've done did for yourself. That's what I've done for myself and the results are amazing. for myself and the results are amazing. for myself and the results are amazing. The body The body The body wants to be healthy. Like the body's wants to be healthy. Like the body's wants to be healthy. Like the body's innate innate innate programming is to be healthy and yet programming is to be healthy and yet programming is to be healthy and yet most doctors don't understand that and most doctors don't understand that and most doctors don't understand that and they're trying to interrupt something or they're trying to interrupt something or they're trying to interrupt something or interfere with something rather than interfere with something rather than interfere with something rather than say, "Okay, how do I create get the say, "Okay, how do I create get the say, "Okay, how do I create get the conditions for health?" And and so talk conditions for health?" And and so talk conditions for health?" And and so talk us through how how you think about this us through how how you think about this us through how how you think about this whole idea of creating health. whole idea of creating health. whole idea of creating health. >> You know, our cells we're doing 2 >> You know, our cells we're doing 2 >> You know, our cells we're doing 2 billion chemical reactions every second. billion chemical reactions every second. billion chemical reactions every second. And so I can take a drug that interferes And so I can take a drug that interferes And so I can take a drug that interferes with one of those chemical reactions. with one of those chemical reactions. with one of those chemical reactions. But if instead I focus on how do I But if instead I focus on how do I But if instead I focus on how do I create better support for more of those create better support for more of those create better support for more of those chemical reactions to happen the way chemical reactions to happen the way chemical reactions to happen the way they should. they should. they should. So that means making sure my nutrition So that means making sure my nutrition So that means making sure my nutrition is as good as possible. That my um sleep is as good as possible. That my um sleep is as good as possible. That my um sleep is as effective as possible. That my is as effective as possible. That my is as effective as possible. That my social connections are as deep and social connections are as deep and social connections are as deep and meaningful as possible. That I am moving meaningful as possible. That I am moving meaningful as possible. That I am moving more and exercising more. That that will more and exercising more. That that will more and exercising more. That that will allow more of those 2 billion chemical allow more of those 2 billion chemical allow more of those 2 billion chemical reactions that are happening to be reactions that are happening to be reactions that are happening to be happening correctly. happening correctly. happening correctly. Yeah and unfortunately, you know, our Yeah and unfortunately, you know, our Yeah and unfortunately, you know, our our medical students are not taught the our medical students are not taught the our medical students are not taught the elements that are key for optimal elements that are key for optimal elements that are key for optimal health. health. health. They're not taught They're not taught They're not taught the the um key elements for nutrition. the the um key elements for nutrition. the the um key elements for nutrition. They aren't taught um how to They aren't taught um how to They aren't taught um how to um be more successful helping people um be more successful helping people um be more successful helping people with behavior change. Mark, if uh the with behavior change. Mark, if uh the with behavior change. Mark, if uh the WHO has identified that WHO has identified that WHO has identified that if Mike and when you and I were you and if Mike and when you and I were you and if Mike and when you and I were you and I were our conventional I were our conventional I were our conventional uh clinicians, and we told physicians uh clinicians, and we told physicians uh clinicians, and we told physicians told our patients to adopt a diet told our patients to adopt a diet told our patients to adopt a diet for a medical reason, 25% of them would for a medical reason, 25% of them would for a medical reason, 25% of them would would go home and would make an attempt. would go home and would make an attempt. would go home and would make an attempt. And at a year, 2.5% And at a year, 2.5% And at a year, 2.5% would actually still be doing the diet would actually still be doing the diet would actually still be doing the diet that you and I told them to do. that you and I told them to do. that you and I told them to do. In Mike clear clinical trials, In Mike clear clinical trials, In Mike clear clinical trials, peer-reviewed published research, our peer-reviewed published research, our peer-reviewed published research, our adherence rates adherence rates adherence rates at 12 months rate are at 90%. And at our at 12 months rate are at 90%. And at our at 12 months rate are at 90%. And at our 6-month uh uh adherence rates are 83 to 6-month uh uh adherence rates are 83 to 6-month uh uh adherence rates are 83 to 85%. 85%. 85%. Uh uh it we are extraordinarily good at Uh uh it we are extraordinarily good at Uh uh it we are extraordinarily good at this this this because we understand behavior change because we understand behavior change because we understand behavior change and because when people implement the and because when people implement the and because when people implement the diets that we prescribe and the diets that we prescribe and the diets that we prescribe and the lifestyle programs we prescribe, lifestyle programs we prescribe, lifestyle programs we prescribe, they actually feel better. they actually feel better. they actually feel better. And I I teach them And I I teach them And I I teach them to pay attention to, you know, to pay attention to, you know, to pay attention to, you know, when you have a good day when you have a good day when you have a good day or a good week, look back. What were you or a good week, look back. What were you or a good week, look back. What were you doing? Can you do more of it? If you doing? Can you do more of it? If you doing? Can you do more of it? If you have a bad day, look back to the have a bad day, look back to the have a bad day, look back to the previous 24 to 72 hours. previous 24 to 72 hours. previous 24 to 72 hours. Have a an idea what was maybe the Have a an idea what was maybe the Have a an idea what was maybe the trigger. Was it a food you ate, a toxin trigger. Was it a food you ate, a toxin trigger. Was it a food you ate, a toxin exposure, a fight with your spouse or exposure, a fight with your spouse or exposure, a fight with your spouse or your boss? And could you have less of your boss? And could you have less of your boss? And could you have less of that? that? that? And so I And we teach people how to draw And so I And we teach people how to draw And so I And we teach people how to draw links between their environment links between their environment links between their environment and how they're feeling. and how they're feeling. and how they're feeling. And the more successfully they draw that And the more successfully they draw that And the more successfully they draw that link, link, link, the more inherent they are to the the more inherent they are to the the more inherent they are to the program. program. program. >> Part of that is is is is also, >> Part of that is is is is also, >> Part of that is is is is also, [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] you know, the the the the the magnitude you know, the the the the the magnitude you know, the the the the the magnitude of the change that you see with the of the change that you see with the of the change that you see with the recommendations. Because if you're a recommendations. Because if you're a recommendations. Because if you're a regular doctor, you say, "Well, I just regular doctor, you say, "Well, I just regular doctor, you say, "Well, I just want you to eat healthier and balanced want you to eat healthier and balanced want you to eat healthier and balanced diet." And it's kind of vague and it's diet." And it's kind of vague and it's diet." And it's kind of vague and it's not really therapeutic. not really therapeutic. not really therapeutic. It's like saying, "Well, I have a It's like saying, "Well, I have a It's like saying, "Well, I have a headache. Here's a milligram of headache. Here's a milligram of headache. Here's a milligram of aspirin." Well, that aspirin doesn't aspirin." Well, that aspirin doesn't aspirin." Well, that aspirin doesn't really work, so I'm not going to take really work, so I'm not going to take really work, so I'm not going to take it. You have to have the right drug, it. You have to have the right drug, it. You have to have the right drug, meaning the right food and the right meaning the right food and the right meaning the right food and the right program for the right condition. program for the right condition. program for the right condition. And and there are some similarities, And and there are some similarities, And and there are some similarities, obviously, to a healthy diet, but obviously, to a healthy diet, but obviously, to a healthy diet, but there's very very much differences. You there's very very much differences. You there's very very much differences. You know, if you're trying to heal a leaky know, if you're trying to heal a leaky know, if you're trying to heal a leaky gut or autoimmune disease, it may be gut or autoimmune disease, it may be gut or autoimmune disease, it may be different than if you're treating a different than if you're treating a different than if you're treating a neurodegenerative disorder or different neurodegenerative disorder or different neurodegenerative disorder or different than if you're, you know, treating than if you're, you know, treating than if you're, you know, treating someone with depression or some someone with depression or some someone with depression or some diabetes, schizophrenia. So, it's you diabetes, schizophrenia. So, it's you diabetes, schizophrenia. So, it's you have to kind of be very specific. And I have to kind of be very specific. And I have to kind of be very specific. And I think the think the think the you know, the fundamental principles of you know, the fundamental principles of you know, the fundamental principles of creating health are are now pretty well creating health are are now pretty well creating health are are now pretty well known, but doctors don't really know how known, but doctors don't really know how known, but doctors don't really know how to prescribe those things or don't know to prescribe those things or don't know to prescribe those things or don't know how to identify the deviations from how to identify the deviations from how to identify the deviations from health and and where you are in the health and and where you are in the health and and where you are in the continuum. And continuum. And continuum. And my guess is, Terry, that if if you had my guess is, Terry, that if if you had my guess is, Terry, that if if you had looked at your life before you got sick, looked at your life before you got sick, looked at your life before you got sick, you could you could track the things you could you could track the things you could you could track the things that were happening or the insults that that were happening or the insults that that were happening or the insults that happened along your life that led to happened along your life that led to happened along your life that led to this moment where you started developing this moment where you started developing this moment where you started developing MS, right? It wasn't like this thing MS, right? It wasn't like this thing MS, right? It wasn't like this thing that just kind of happened out of the that just kind of happened out of the that just kind of happened out of the blue. And and that's something we're not blue. And and that's something we're not blue. And and that's something we're not good at identifying. And I think we're good at identifying. And I think we're good at identifying. And I think we're going to get better and better at it as going to get better and better at it as going to get better and better at it as we have more data-driven health care. we have more data-driven health care. we have more data-driven health care. Part of the reason I co-founded the Part of the reason I co-founded the Part of the reason I co-founded the company Function Health was to allow company Function Health was to allow company Function Health was to allow people to gather large personal health people to gather large personal health people to gather large personal health data sets over time, so you can look for data sets over time, so you can look for data sets over time, so you can look for those subtle changes and clues that will those subtle changes and clues that will those subtle changes and clues that will lead to a problem if you don't deal with lead to a problem if you don't deal with lead to a problem if you don't deal with it. And then you can be proactive about it. And then you can be proactive about it. And then you can be proactive about it. it. it. >> Right. They can give you a lot of >> Right. They can give you a lot of >> Right. They can give you a lot of information and things to track. Uh that information and things to track. Uh that information and things to track. Uh that help you see like, "Okay, things are help you see like, "Okay, things are help you see like, "Okay, things are improving now." improving now." improving now." >> With the other diseases that you're >> With the other diseases that you're >> With the other diseases that you're seeing, you're you're seeing, you know, seeing, you're you're seeing, you know, seeing, you're you're seeing, you know, chronic illnesses like diabetes, like chronic illnesses like diabetes, like chronic illnesses like diabetes, like you're seeing Alzheimer's, Parkinson's you're seeing Alzheimer's, Parkinson's you're seeing Alzheimer's, Parkinson's in addition to MS, right? in addition to MS, right? in addition to MS, right? >> see is, you know, the cognitive decline, >> see is, you know, the cognitive decline, >> see is, you know, the cognitive decline, certainly the certainly the certainly the declines, declines, declines, brain fog resolves, fatigue resolves. brain fog resolves, fatigue resolves. brain fog resolves, fatigue resolves. In my clinical trials, we've added we In my clinical trials, we've added we In my clinical trials, we've added we now study some we have some online now study some we have some online now study some we have some online wellness programs. And we're studying wellness programs. And we're studying wellness programs. And we're studying fibromyalgia, long COVID. Those studies fibromyalgia, long COVID. Those studies fibromyalgia, long COVID. Those studies we're still recruiting. So it'll we're still recruiting. So it'll we're still recruiting. So it'll probably be another um probably be another um probably be another um 18 months before I have that data 18 months before I have that data 18 months before I have that data available. available. available. We studied cancer, fatigue fatigue in um in um in um cancer patients. We'll be analyzing that cancer patients. We'll be analyzing that cancer patients. We'll be analyzing that data this summer, probably publishing data this summer, probably publishing data this summer, probably publishing that next year in 2027. that next year in 2027. that next year in 2027. And I've just put in a proposal And I've just put in a proposal And I've just put in a proposal to [snorts] study progressive MS. to [snorts] study progressive MS. to [snorts] study progressive MS. And nobody wants to study progressive MS And nobody wants to study progressive MS And nobody wants to study progressive MS because those folks never get better. We because those folks never get better. We because those folks never get better. We have a study that's open right now for have a study that's open right now for have a study that's open right now for rheumatologic um rheumatologic um rheumatologic um diagnoses, things like rheumatoid diagnoses, things like rheumatoid diagnoses, things like rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren's, arthritis, Sjogren's, arthritis, Sjogren's, lupus, mixed connective tissue disease, lupus, mixed connective tissue disease, lupus, mixed connective tissue disease, psoriatic arthritis. psoriatic arthritis. psoriatic arthritis. We're recruiting for those folks. We're We're recruiting for those folks. We're We're recruiting for those folks. We're also adding anxiety and depression as also adding anxiety and depression as also adding anxiety and depression as well. well. well. And this morning I had a meeting with my And this morning I had a meeting with my And this morning I had a meeting with my study team talking about pediatric onset study team talking about pediatric onset study team talking about pediatric onset multiple sclerosis because, you know, multiple sclerosis because, you know, multiple sclerosis because, you know, shockingly enough we have children young shockingly enough we have children young shockingly enough we have children young children that are now being diagnosed children that are now being diagnosed children that are now being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis as well. with multiple sclerosis as well. with multiple sclerosis as well. >> So Terry, this is all incredible work >> So Terry, this is all incredible work >> So Terry, this is all incredible work you're doing. you're doing. you're doing. You know, you've been at this now for a You know, you've been at this now for a You know, you've been at this now for a while. We met while. We met while. We met decade and a half ago probably. I don't decade and a half ago probably. I don't decade and a half ago probably. I don't know. A long time ago. And I think it know. A long time ago. And I think it know. A long time ago. And I think it was early on when you were just sort of was early on when you were just sort of was early on when you were just sort of working doing this work. And and you had working doing this work. And and you had working doing this work. And and you had mostly recovered by then, but mostly recovered by then, but mostly recovered by then, but I'm curious in in the in sort of I'm curious in in the in sort of I'm curious in in the in sort of intervening time you've been working in intervening time you've been working in intervening time you've been working in this field, what what is most exciting this field, what what is most exciting this field, what what is most exciting to you now that there's emerging in the to you now that there's emerging in the to you now that there's emerging in the science? science? science? What are the what are the bright lights What are the what are the bright lights What are the what are the bright lights that you're looking towards and things that you're looking towards and things that you're looking towards and things that you hadn't understood before that that you hadn't understood before that that you hadn't understood before that you now understand about how how to you now understand about how how to you now understand about how how to actually begin to treat chronic disease actually begin to treat chronic disease actually begin to treat chronic disease more effectively? more effectively? more effectively? >> So one of the really interesting >> So one of the really interesting >> So one of the really interesting observations that we had observations that we had observations that we had when we looked at the wave study that when we looked at the wave study that when we looked at the wave study that was comparing the low saturated fat diet was comparing the low saturated fat diet was comparing the low saturated fat diet and the and the and the modified paleolithic diet, we saw that modified paleolithic diet, we saw that modified paleolithic diet, we saw that the microbiome that you had at baseline the microbiome that you had at baseline the microbiome that you had at baseline could predict if you're going to respond could predict if you're going to respond could predict if you're going to respond better to the low saturated fat diet or better to the low saturated fat diet or better to the low saturated fat diet or better to the modified paleo diet. better to the modified paleo diet. better to the modified paleo diet. So I I think So I I think So I I think what diseases I develop are are what diseases I develop are are what diseases I develop are are dependent on my genetics, dependent on my genetics, dependent on my genetics, the food I'm eating and the microbiome I the food I'm eating and the microbiome I the food I'm eating and the microbiome I have. have. have. I and so I predict there'll be a time I and so I predict there'll be a time I and so I predict there'll be a time then you'll probably do this in your then you'll probably do this in your then you'll probably do this in your functional health and and maybe I need functional health and and maybe I need functional health and and maybe I need to help you think about this Mark is to help you think about this Mark is to help you think about this Mark is that that that we'll be able to give some saliva, we'll be able to give some saliva, we'll be able to give some saliva, uh, some blood, some urine, some stool uh, some blood, some urine, some stool uh, some blood, some urine, some stool uh, and uh, and uh, and then in 3 to 6 then in 3 to 6 then in 3 to 6 weeks you'll be able to give a report weeks you'll be able to give a report weeks you'll be able to give a report back to me back to me back to me and I could tell my patient given your and I could tell my patient given your and I could tell my patient given your genetics, your microbiome, genetics, your microbiome, genetics, your microbiome, yeah, and your underlying medical yeah, and your underlying medical yeah, and your underlying medical conditions, these are the diets that conditions, these are the diets that conditions, these are the diets that you'd be most helpful. you'd be most helpful. you'd be most helpful. The these diets would be the least The these diets would be the least The these diets would be the least helpful helpful helpful and these supplements, uh, would be uh, and these supplements, uh, would be uh, and these supplements, uh, would be uh, helpful and you may also want to take helpful and you may also want to take helpful and you may also want to take these additional probiotics. these additional probiotics. these additional probiotics. That will be the future of medicine. Uh, That will be the future of medicine. Uh, That will be the future of medicine. Uh, I'm very excited about that. I think AI I'm very excited about that. I think AI I'm very excited about that. I think AI will help us get there. will help us get there. will help us get there. Um, we are doing more microbiome Um, we are doing more microbiome Um, we are doing more microbiome research right now and so we will be research right now and so we will be research right now and so we will be um, uh, um, uh, um, uh, probably having some really interesting probably having some really interesting probably having some really interesting papers coming out about that in 2028 and papers coming out about that in 2028 and papers coming out about that in 2028 and 2029. 2029. 2029. Uh, and I think particularly around MS Uh, and I think particularly around MS Uh, and I think particularly around MS or around around autoimmune disease or or around around autoimmune disease or or around around autoimmune disease or >> Well, that'll >> Well, that'll >> Well, that'll >> be around the the interaction of the >> be around the the interaction of the >> be around the the interaction of the microbiome, microbiome, microbiome, diet, diet, diet, and clinical outcomes in multiple and clinical outcomes in multiple and clinical outcomes in multiple sclerosis. sclerosis. sclerosis. Because, you know, in my current study, Because, you know, in my current study, Because, you know, in my current study, we've got microbiome data. We have, you we've got microbiome data. We have, you we've got microbiome data. We have, you know, clinical data. We have patient know, clinical data. We have patient know, clinical data. We have patient reported outcome data. We'll also have reported outcome data. We'll also have reported outcome data. We'll also have metabolome metabolome metabolome data, so metabolites, data, so metabolites, data, so metabolites, and brain structure, and brain and brain structure, and brain and brain structure, and brain metabolites as well. metabolites as well. metabolites as well. >> And as you're talking about, >> And as you're talking about, >> And as you're talking about, you know, MS and you know, MS and you know, MS and the microbiome. I I remember a patient I the microbiome. I I remember a patient I the microbiome. I I remember a patient I had probably 20 years ago had probably 20 years ago had probably 20 years ago who said, you know, "Whenever my gut who said, you know, "Whenever my gut who said, you know, "Whenever my gut symptoms get worse, my MS gets worse." symptoms get worse, my MS gets worse." symptoms get worse, my MS gets worse." And I was like, "Oh, And I was like, "Oh, And I was like, "Oh, >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> maybe there's a connection there." >> maybe there's a connection there." >> maybe there's a connection there." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think, you know, the microbiome >> And I think, you know, the microbiome >> And I think, you know, the microbiome plays such a role across such a diverse plays such a role across such a diverse plays such a role across such a diverse array of conditions. array of conditions. array of conditions. You know, we talked about mitochondria. You know, we talked about mitochondria. You know, we talked about mitochondria. We talked about inflammation indirectly We talked about inflammation indirectly We talked about inflammation indirectly through autoimmune disease. We're through autoimmune disease. We're through autoimmune disease. We're talking about now the microbiome. These talking about now the microbiome. These talking about now the microbiome. These are the fundamental systems that exist are the fundamental systems that exist are the fundamental systems that exist in human biology that are the the in human biology that are the the in human biology that are the the foundations of most chronic disease. And foundations of most chronic disease. And foundations of most chronic disease. And there's a few other things there's a few other things there's a few other things as well, but these are really core. And as well, but these are really core. And as well, but these are really core. And in functional medicine, that's what we in functional medicine, that's what we in functional medicine, that's what we focus on, not the diseases, but on these focus on, not the diseases, but on these focus on, not the diseases, but on these biological processes. And the way I the biological processes. And the way I the biological processes. And the way I the way I often talk about it is, way I often talk about it is, way I often talk about it is, you know, we we in medicine you know, we we in medicine you know, we we in medicine are young science. Lewis Thomas, I read are young science. Lewis Thomas, I read are young science. Lewis Thomas, I read his book when I was in med school called his book when I was in med school called his book when I was in med school called The Youngest Science. The Youngest Science. The Youngest Science. And and and and E.O. Wilson wrote a book And and and and E.O. Wilson wrote a book And and and and E.O. Wilson wrote a book called Consilience, the unity of called Consilience, the unity of called Consilience, the unity of knowledge, where he talked about how knowledge, where he talked about how knowledge, where he talked about how medicine has no theory, medicine has no theory, medicine has no theory, and it's just a bunch of reactive and it's just a bunch of reactive and it's just a bunch of reactive um um um reactions to things that we observe and reactions to things that we observe and reactions to things that we observe and observe phenomena, but it's not a observe phenomena, but it's not a observe phenomena, but it's not a coherent strategy of how to approach a coherent strategy of how to approach a coherent strategy of how to approach a problem. It's just like, "Try this. Try problem. It's just like, "Try this. Try problem. It's just like, "Try this. Try that." Or there's this pathway or that that." Or there's this pathway or that that." Or there's this pathway or that pathway. Or let's block this or block pathway. Or let's block this or block pathway. Or let's block this or block that. Like, amyloid is a great example. that. Like, amyloid is a great example. that. Like, amyloid is a great example. We can say, "Oh, amyloid's in the brain. We can say, "Oh, amyloid's in the brain. We can say, "Oh, amyloid's in the brain. Let's find a drug to block amyloid in Let's find a drug to block amyloid in Let's find a drug to block amyloid in dementia." But it doesn't work. And we dementia." But it doesn't work. And we dementia." But it doesn't work. And we spend billions of dollars and hundreds spend billions of dollars and hundreds spend billions of dollars and hundreds and hundreds of studies and have had no and hundreds of studies and have had no and hundreds of studies and have had no no positive out outcomes. And that's no positive out outcomes. And that's no positive out outcomes. And that's because we're thinking about it wrong. because we're thinking about it wrong. because we're thinking about it wrong. You know, what we're talking about today You know, what we're talking about today You know, what we're talking about today is is developing a new theory of is is developing a new theory of is is developing a new theory of medicine, a new theory of human biology medicine, a new theory of human biology medicine, a new theory of human biology that's based on the laws of nature. And that's based on the laws of nature. And that's based on the laws of nature. And so, really what we're talking about the so, really what we're talking about the so, really what we're talking about the microbiome or mitochondria or microbiome or mitochondria or microbiome or mitochondria or inflammation, inflammation, inflammation, these are things which are these are things which are these are things which are fundamental to human health. And if fundamental to human health. And if fundamental to human health. And if they're not if these systems aren't they're not if these systems aren't they're not if these systems aren't working, if your immune system, if your working, if your immune system, if your working, if your immune system, if your microbiome, if your mitochondria aren't microbiome, if your mitochondria aren't microbiome, if your mitochondria aren't working, you're not well. And depending working, you're not well. And depending working, you're not well. And depending on your genetics, your predispositions, on your genetics, your predispositions, on your genetics, your predispositions, the various insults, it might manifest the various insults, it might manifest the various insults, it might manifest as different diseases, but the common as different diseases, but the common as different diseases, but the common roots are the same for so many of these roots are the same for so many of these roots are the same for so many of these conditions. And that begins we need to conditions. And that begins we need to conditions. And that begins we need to figure out how to treat these things and figure out how to treat these things and figure out how to treat these things and how to help people, like you say, create how to help people, like you say, create how to help people, like you say, create a healthy immune system or healthy a healthy immune system or healthy a healthy immune system or healthy microbiome or healthy mitochondria. When microbiome or healthy mitochondria. When microbiome or healthy mitochondria. When you say create a health, that's what you say create a health, that's what you say create a health, that's what you're talking about. you're talking about. you're talking about. >> Yes, I I'm working on and >> Yes, I I'm working on and >> Yes, I I'm working on and what are the things that can create what are the things that can create what are the things that can create health? health? health? How do we create How do we create How do we create meaningful, healthy, um, social meaningful, healthy, um, social meaningful, healthy, um, social connection? connection? connection? How do I create, um, a healthy sleep? How do I create, um, a healthy sleep? How do I create, um, a healthy sleep? How do I create more healthy movement? How do I create more healthy movement? How do I create more healthy movement? How do I How do I How do I have better nutrition? have better nutrition? have better nutrition? So, you know, step-by-step, and when I So, you know, step-by-step, and when I So, you know, step-by-step, and when I talk with my patients, talk with my patients, talk with my patients, I will, um, I used to always insist they I will, um, I used to always insist they I will, um, I used to always insist they start with diet. Now I'm a little more start with diet. Now I'm a little more start with diet. Now I'm a little more uh, open to in which of these domains do uh, open to in which of these domains do uh, open to in which of these domains do you want to start first? you want to start first? you want to start first? I think diet's particularly powerful, I think diet's particularly powerful, I think diet's particularly powerful, but if there's a different domain you but if there's a different domain you but if there's a different domain you want to start in first, that's fine. want to start in first, that's fine. want to start in first, that's fine. And if you want to do them all at once, And if you want to do them all at once, And if you want to do them all at once, we'll give you a big complicated plan. we'll give you a big complicated plan. we'll give you a big complicated plan. Or if you want to have Or if you want to have Or if you want to have one simple next step, we can do that. one simple next step, we can do that. one simple next step, we can do that. >> I recommend magnesium to most of my >> I recommend magnesium to most of my >> I recommend magnesium to most of my patients and for good reason. It's patients and for good reason. It's patients and for good reason. It's involved in hundreds of biochemical involved in hundreds of biochemical involved in hundreds of biochemical reactions in the body, including reactions in the body, including reactions in the body, including regulating the nervous system, regulating the nervous system, regulating the nervous system, supporting muscle recovery, and helping supporting muscle recovery, and helping supporting muscle recovery, and helping your body transition to a restful sleep. your body transition to a restful sleep. your body transition to a restful sleep. Now, what's interesting is that newer Now, what's interesting is that newer Now, what's interesting is that newer research is starting to look at how research is starting to look at how research is starting to look at how certain forms of magnesium may support certain forms of magnesium may support certain forms of magnesium may support brain health and sleep quality. Now, one brain health and sleep quality. Now, one brain health and sleep quality. Now, one randomized clinical study, adults who randomized clinical study, adults who randomized clinical study, adults who took a brain-available form of magnesium took a brain-available form of magnesium took a brain-available form of magnesium reported improvements in sleep quality reported improvements in sleep quality reported improvements in sleep quality and daytime functioning compared to and daytime functioning compared to and daytime functioning compared to placebo. Now, magnesium is one of the placebo. Now, magnesium is one of the placebo. Now, magnesium is one of the most common nutrient deficiencies I see, most common nutrient deficiencies I see, most common nutrient deficiencies I see, and low levels can contribute to stress, and low levels can contribute to stress, and low levels can contribute to stress, poor sleep, muscle tension, and low poor sleep, muscle tension, and low poor sleep, muscle tension, and low energy. And the challenge is that most energy. And the challenge is that most energy. And the challenge is that most magnesium supplements only contain one magnesium supplements only contain one magnesium supplements only contain one or two forms, and they're not always or two forms, and they're not always or two forms, and they're not always well absorbed. And that's why I well absorbed. And that's why I well absorbed. And that's why I recommend magnesium breakthrough by recommend magnesium breakthrough by recommend magnesium breakthrough by BiOptimizers. It's a full-spectrum BiOptimizers. It's a full-spectrum BiOptimizers. It's a full-spectrum formula that includes seven different formula that includes seven different formula that includes seven different forms of magnesium designed to support forms of magnesium designed to support forms of magnesium designed to support your brain, your muscles, your stress your brain, your muscles, your stress your brain, your muscles, your stress response, and your sleep. I take it as response, and your sleep. I take it as response, and your sleep. I take it as part of my evening routine. Try today part of my evening routine. Try today part of my evening routine. Try today and go to bioptimizers.com/hyman and go to bioptimizers.com/hyman and go to bioptimizers.com/hyman and use the code Hyman at checkout to and use the code Hyman at checkout to and use the code Hyman at checkout to save 15% off your order. That's b i o p save 15% off your order. That's b i o p save 15% off your order. That's b i o p t i m i z e r s.com/hyman t i m i z e r s.com/hyman t i m i z e r s.com/hyman and use the code Hyman. and use the code Hyman. and use the code Hyman. People often assume I love cooking People often assume I love cooking People often assume I love cooking because I'm a doctor and focus on food because I'm a doctor and focus on food because I'm a doctor and focus on food as medicine, but the truth is I love as medicine, but the truth is I love as medicine, but the truth is I love cooking because it's creative, it's cooking because it's creative, it's cooking because it's creative, it's grounding, and it connects you to what grounding, and it connects you to what grounding, and it connects you to what you're eating. In fact, last night I you're eating. In fact, last night I you're eating. In fact, last night I cooked one of my favorite recipes, our cooked one of my favorite recipes, our cooked one of my favorite recipes, our Mediterranean lemon chicken soup. It's Mediterranean lemon chicken soup. It's Mediterranean lemon chicken soup. It's simple, nourishing, and it's built simple, nourishing, and it's built simple, nourishing, and it's built around whole, anti-inflammatory around whole, anti-inflammatory around whole, anti-inflammatory ingredients. Nothing complicated, just ingredients. Nothing complicated, just ingredients. Nothing complicated, just real food prepared well. Cooking isn't real food prepared well. Cooking isn't real food prepared well. Cooking isn't about talent, it's about confidence, and about talent, it's about confidence, and about talent, it's about confidence, and confidence comes from having the tools confidence comes from having the tools confidence comes from having the tools that actually work. And that's why I use that actually work. And that's why I use that actually work. And that's why I use Made In cookware. The heat distribution Made In cookware. The heat distribution Made In cookware. The heat distribution is incredibly even whether I'm sautéing is incredibly even whether I'm sautéing is incredibly even whether I'm sautéing aromatics for soup or simmering broth. aromatics for soup or simmering broth. aromatics for soup or simmering broth. Made In creates professional-quality, Made In creates professional-quality, Made In creates professional-quality, chef-trusted cookware that's designed chef-trusted cookware that's designed chef-trusted cookware that's designed for the home cook. It makes the process for the home cook. It makes the process for the home cook. It makes the process seamless. And when your cookware seamless. And when your cookware seamless. And when your cookware performs well, you're not worrying about performs well, you're not worrying about performs well, you're not worrying about hot spots or uneven cooking, you're hot spots or uneven cooking, you're hot spots or uneven cooking, you're focused on flavor and nourishment. Try focused on flavor and nourishment. Try focused on flavor and nourishment. Try today. Visit madeincookware.com and use today. Visit madeincookware.com and use today. Visit madeincookware.com and use the code Hyman10 for 10% off your order. the code Hyman10 for 10% off your order. the code Hyman10 for 10% off your order. I mean, yeah, you have to sort of match I mean, yeah, you have to sort of match I mean, yeah, you have to sort of match the approach to the person, but but like the approach to the person, but but like the approach to the person, but but like you said, you know, the magnitude of the you said, you know, the magnitude of the you said, you know, the magnitude of the improvements in health often is improvements in health often is improvements in health often is determined by the the dose, right? And determined by the the dose, right? And determined by the the dose, right? And the frequency of the treatment, right? the frequency of the treatment, right? the frequency of the treatment, right? You know, you could if you're drinking a You know, you could if you're drinking a You know, you could if you're drinking a you know, a case of Coke every day, if you know, a case of Coke every day, if you know, a case of Coke every day, if you have half a case you have half a case you have half a case that's an improvement, but it's probably that's an improvement, but it's probably that's an improvement, but it's probably not going to move the needle, right? not going to move the needle, right? not going to move the needle, right? >> It won't move the needle much. >> It won't move the needle much. >> It won't move the needle much. >> Right. But you know, what what what what >> Right. But you know, what what what what >> Right. But you know, what what what what you're seeing is you're you know, just you're seeing is you're you know, just you're seeing is you're you know, just kind of loop back on your story is kind of loop back on your story is kind of loop back on your story is you're you're seeing your story repeated you're you're seeing your story repeated you're you're seeing your story repeated over and over. And this is not just a N over and over. And this is not just a N over and over. And this is not just a N of 1 Terry's an anomaly and a rare case of 1 Terry's an anomaly and a rare case of 1 Terry's an anomaly and a rare case and we don't know why. You're actually and we don't know why. You're actually and we don't know why. You're actually repeating this over and over and repeating this over and over and repeating this over and over and >> We're repeating over and over >> We're repeating over and over >> We're repeating over and over chronically and I repeat it in my chronically and I repeat it in my chronically and I repeat it in my peer-reviewed published research. peer-reviewed published research. peer-reviewed published research. So when when you know, people would So when when you know, people would So when when you know, people would attack me you know, early on again and attack me you know, early on again and attack me you know, early on again and again and again again and again again and again and I'd go on these neurology podcasts and I'd go on these neurology podcasts and I'd go on these neurology podcasts and I'd be thoroughly attacked. I'd say, and I'd be thoroughly attacked. I'd say, and I'd be thoroughly attacked. I'd say, "Okay, let let's just assume we'll take "Okay, let let's just assume we'll take "Okay, let let's just assume we'll take me out of the equation. Let's look at my me out of the equation. Let's look at my me out of the equation. Let's look at my peer-reviewed published research where peer-reviewed published research where peer-reviewed published research where other people have verified the other people have verified the other people have verified the diagnosis. We follow people more diagnosis. We follow people more diagnosis. We follow people more prospectively and we publish our prospectively and we publish our prospectively and we publish our research." research." research." I and so I and so I and so we see this again and again in research. we see this again and again in research. we see this again and again in research. We see this again and again We see this again and again We see this again and again in clinical practice. Mark sees it in in clinical practice. Mark sees it in in clinical practice. Mark sees it in his practice. The Walls practitioners his practice. The Walls practitioners his practice. The Walls practitioners that we train, they see it in their that we train, they see it in their that we train, they see it in their practice as well. practice as well. practice as well. >> So imagine imagine you got invited to go >> So imagine imagine you got invited to go >> So imagine imagine you got invited to go to the NIH and meet with the head of the to the NIH and meet with the head of the to the NIH and meet with the head of the NIH Dr. Bhattacharya NIH Dr. Bhattacharya NIH Dr. Bhattacharya and you're able to lay out a case for and you're able to lay out a case for and you're able to lay out a case for the type of research we need to focus on the type of research we need to focus on the type of research we need to focus on and invest in heavily. What would you and invest in heavily. What would you and invest in heavily. What would you advise him? advise him? advise him? >> We need to do multimodal interventions. >> We need to do multimodal interventions. >> We need to do multimodal interventions. You know, for the lot and that's why I You know, for the lot and that's why I You know, for the lot and that's why I keep writing grants keep writing grants keep writing grants >> that mean in English? >> that mean in English? >> that mean in English? >> So multimodal Oh, thank you. It means >> So multimodal Oh, thank you. It means >> So multimodal Oh, thank you. It means that you fix as many of these systems as that you fix as many of these systems as that you fix as many of these systems as you can. So we're going to fix you can. So we're going to fix you can. So we're going to fix nutrition. We're going to fix meaning nutrition. We're going to fix meaning nutrition. We're going to fix meaning and purpose in life. We're going to help and purpose in life. We're going to help and purpose in life. We're going to help people identify people identify people identify a stress reducing practice that they can a stress reducing practice that they can a stress reducing practice that they can embrace. We're going to help them add embrace. We're going to help them add embrace. We're going to help them add exercise and movement. We will track exercise and movement. We will track exercise and movement. We will track their sleep. So, we're going to work on their sleep. So, we're going to work on their sleep. So, we're going to work on using systems biology using systems biology using systems biology to create health. And I would want to to create health. And I would want to to create health. And I would want to um um um track uh these measures of nutrition, track uh these measures of nutrition, track uh these measures of nutrition, ideally using 24-hour recalls, uh track ideally using 24-hour recalls, uh track ideally using 24-hour recalls, uh track sleep using um uh wearable technology. sleep using um uh wearable technology. sleep using um uh wearable technology. Uh and there are a variety of wearable Uh and there are a variety of wearable Uh and there are a variety of wearable technologies uh that can do that. Uh technologies uh that can do that. Uh technologies uh that can do that. Uh yeah, so that we can track how as people yeah, so that we can track how as people yeah, so that we can track how as people implement again, these multiple implement again, these multiple implement again, these multiple interventions, better nutrition, better interventions, better nutrition, better interventions, better nutrition, better sleep, uh better movement, uh stress sleep, uh better movement, uh stress sleep, uh better movement, uh stress stress-reducing practice, purpose and stress-reducing practice, purpose and stress-reducing practice, purpose and meaning, meaning, meaning, that that can translate into improved that that can translate into improved that that can translate into improved cellular function that we can measure cellular function that we can measure cellular function that we can measure with physiology using things like heart with physiology using things like heart with physiology using things like heart rate variability, rate variability, rate variability, using things like VO2 max, how well we using things like VO2 max, how well we using things like VO2 max, how well we use oxygen, uh uh using our the quality use oxygen, uh uh using our the quality use oxygen, uh uh using our the quality of our nutrition based on 24-hour of our nutrition based on 24-hour of our nutrition based on 24-hour recalls. recalls. recalls. >> And these are biomarkers of health, not >> And these are biomarkers of health, not >> And these are biomarkers of health, not biomarkers of disease. biomarkers of disease. biomarkers of disease. >> Biomarkers of health that we will track >> Biomarkers of health that we will track >> Biomarkers of health that we will track biomarkers of health and by improving biomarkers of health and by improving biomarkers of health and by improving health, health, health, we can stabilize and and you know, it it we can stabilize and and you know, it it we can stabilize and and you know, it it and I'm and I'm writing a new book that and I'm and I'm writing a new book that and I'm and I'm writing a new book that talks about, you know, these concepts as talks about, you know, these concepts as talks about, you know, these concepts as a way to a way to a way to prevent disease, prevent disease, prevent disease, stabilize the disease you have, regress stabilize the disease you have, regress stabilize the disease you have, regress most chronic diseases, most chronic diseases, most chronic diseases, and many and many and many genetic diseases genetic diseases genetic diseases if you focus on these multimodal if you focus on these multimodal if you focus on these multimodal interventions. interventions. interventions. >> I mean, that is that is so key, Terry, >> I mean, that is that is so key, Terry, >> I mean, that is that is so key, Terry, that, you know, that, you know, that, you know, when you when you realize what does it when you when you realize what does it when you when you realize what does it take to create a healthy human, it's not take to create a healthy human, it's not take to create a healthy human, it's not just a single drug. And most of the just a single drug. And most of the just a single drug. And most of the problem with our research enterprise in problem with our research enterprise in problem with our research enterprise in America, America, America, and the reason we're not getting the and the reason we're not getting the and the reason we're not getting the answers we really should be getting, is answers we really should be getting, is answers we really should be getting, is that the entire infrastructure is that the entire infrastructure is that the entire infrastructure is designed to show whether this or that designed to show whether this or that designed to show whether this or that drugs work for this or that disease. And drugs work for this or that disease. And drugs work for this or that disease. And that's what a randomized controlled that's what a randomized controlled that's what a randomized controlled trial does. It's isolating all variables trial does. It's isolating all variables trial does. It's isolating all variables except for one. It's homogenizing except for one. It's homogenizing except for one. It's homogenizing populations and it's giving them the populations and it's giving them the populations and it's giving them the same thing to look for a single outcome same thing to look for a single outcome same thing to look for a single outcome and trying to not do anything else and trying to not do anything else and trying to not do anything else except this one thing like this one except this one thing like this one except this one thing like this one drug. But that's not how the body works, drug. But that's not how the body works, drug. But that's not how the body works, right? right? right? >> Right. They they want to focus on one >> Right. They they want to focus on one >> Right. They they want to focus on one receptor. receptor. receptor. But Remember it's 2 billion chemical But Remember it's 2 billion chemical But Remember it's 2 billion chemical reactions per second. We want to have reactions per second. We want to have reactions per second. We want to have as many of the as many of the as many of the elements elements elements of the modifiable lifestyle factors of of the modifiable lifestyle factors of of the modifiable lifestyle factors of which you and I have some control as which you and I have some control as which you and I have some control as individuals that we want people to individuals that we want people to individuals that we want people to improve those. improve those. improve those. Those are the studies that we need. Those are the studies that we need. Those are the studies that we need. I keep writing those grants. I keep writing those grants. I keep writing those grants. The NIH doesn't find me. The MS Society The NIH doesn't find me. The MS Society The NIH doesn't find me. The MS Society funded me once. But what I do have, funded me once. But what I do have, funded me once. But what I do have, Mark, are grateful patients whose lives Mark, are grateful patients whose lives Mark, are grateful patients whose lives I've transformed, who have been I've transformed, who have been I've transformed, who have been extraordinarily generous with my lab. extraordinarily generous with my lab. extraordinarily generous with my lab. And that's how I do my clinical trials. And that's how I do my clinical trials. And that's how I do my clinical trials. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's through philanthropic support. >> It's through philanthropic support. >> It's through philanthropic support. >> And we we need that for sure and thank >> And we we need that for sure and thank >> And we we need that for sure and thank God for those philanthropists who see God for those philanthropists who see God for those philanthropists who see this and who have been helped, but we this and who have been helped, but we this and who have been helped, but we really need billions of dollars focused really need billions of dollars focused really need billions of dollars focused on this. on this. on this. >> We need billions of billions. >> We need billions of billions. >> We need billions of billions. >> 200,000 or a few million. And I think >> 200,000 or a few million. And I think >> 200,000 or a few million. And I think that, you know, I was at Cleveland that, you know, I was at Cleveland that, you know, I was at Cleveland Clinic and tried to do a study on Clinic and tried to do a study on Clinic and tried to do a study on Alzheimer's Alzheimer's Alzheimer's and the head of the and the head of the and the head of the Lou Ruvo Center at the time, Dr. Sabat, Lou Ruvo Center at the time, Dr. Sabat, Lou Ruvo Center at the time, Dr. Sabat, was amazing and he really understood the was amazing and he really understood the was amazing and he really understood the need for a more comprehensive approach need for a more comprehensive approach need for a more comprehensive approach to these conditions. He said, "Okay, to these conditions. He said, "Okay, to these conditions. He said, "Okay, this is not just one disease. this is not just one disease. this is not just one disease. There's many root causes. There's many There's many root causes. There's many There's many root causes. There's many different kinds of treatments. We can't different kinds of treatments. We can't different kinds of treatments. We can't just do one thing. We need to look at it just do one thing. We need to look at it just do one thing. We need to look at it all holistically as a systems model of all holistically as a systems model of all holistically as a systems model of research. We call multi- research. We call multi- research. We call multi- modal treatments, which means a lot of modal treatments, which means a lot of modal treatments, which means a lot of different things at once versus just one different things at once versus just one different things at once versus just one single thing. And and for multi-causal single thing. And and for multi-causal single thing. And and for multi-causal diseases, it's not just one cause up, diseases, it's not just one cause up, diseases, it's not just one cause up, it's not just one thing or one receptor it's not just one thing or one receptor it's not just one thing or one receptor that's wrong. I mean, you mentioned 22 that's wrong. I mean, you mentioned 22 that's wrong. I mean, you mentioned 22 billion reactions in every cell, there's billion reactions in every cell, there's billion reactions in every cell, there's 40 billion cells. That's 80 quintillion, 40 billion cells. That's 80 quintillion, 40 billion cells. That's 80 quintillion, which is like 19 zeros. That's a big which is like 19 zeros. That's a big which is like 19 zeros. That's a big freaking number. And so, that's a lot of freaking number. And so, that's a lot of freaking number. And so, that's a lot of stuff going on, and we can't just do one stuff going on, and we can't just do one stuff going on, and we can't just do one thing. And I thing. And I thing. And I I said, "Look, we want to do a I said, "Look, we want to do a I said, "Look, we want to do a comprehensive study. We want to change comprehensive study. We want to change comprehensive study. We want to change diet. We want to exercise. We want to diet. We want to exercise. We want to diet. We want to exercise. We want to give optimize sleep. We want to optimize give optimize sleep. We want to optimize give optimize sleep. We want to optimize nutrient levels. You want to nutrient levels. You want to nutrient levels. You want to detoxify. You want to help the detoxify. You want to help the detoxify. You want to help the microbiome. We want to Cuz you you have microbiome. We want to Cuz you you have microbiome. We want to Cuz you you have to do all that stuff to to help someone to do all that stuff to to help someone to do all that stuff to to help someone with with the dementia cuz it's a pretty with with the dementia cuz it's a pretty with with the dementia cuz it's a pretty serious illness." serious illness." serious illness." And she's like, "No, no, no. First, we And she's like, "No, no, no. First, we And she's like, "No, no, no. First, we have to do a study to see if vitamin D have to do a study to see if vitamin D have to do a study to see if vitamin D works. Then, we can alone just alone. works. Then, we can alone just alone. works. Then, we can alone just alone. And then, we have to do a study to see And then, we have to do a study to see And then, we have to do a study to see if exercise works and just that alone. if exercise works and just that alone. if exercise works and just that alone. Or then, we have to do a study to see if Or then, we have to do a study to see if Or then, we have to do a study to see if optimizing sleep works and just that optimizing sleep works and just that optimizing sleep works and just that alone." alone." alone." And I'm like, And I'm like, And I'm like, she goes, "How will we know what else is she goes, "How will we know what else is she goes, "How will we know what else is working if we just do it all together?" working if we just do it all together?" working if we just do it all together?" I said, "Well, you may not, but when I said, "Well, you may not, but when I said, "Well, you may not, but when you're growing a plant, you just say you you're growing a plant, you just say you you're growing a plant, you just say you don't go, 'Well, I'm just going to give don't go, 'Well, I'm just going to give don't go, 'Well, I'm just going to give it water but no soil or sunlight.' Or it water but no soil or sunlight.' Or it water but no soil or sunlight.' Or I'm going to give it sunlight but no I'm going to give it sunlight but no I'm going to give it sunlight but no water or soil. Like, you water or soil. Like, you water or soil. Like, you You know, You know, You know, how do you create a healthy human? It how do you create a healthy human? It how do you create a healthy human? It requires all these different inputs. And requires all these different inputs. And requires all these different inputs. And they have to be optimized. And there's they have to be optimized. And there's they have to be optimized. And there's ways of identifying what those ways of identifying what those ways of identifying what those disturbances are. And we're becoming disturbances are. And we're becoming disturbances are. And we're becoming better and better at identifying those better and better at identifying those better and better at identifying those through through history, through through through history, through through through history, through diagnostics, through genetic testing, diagnostics, through genetic testing, diagnostics, through genetic testing, through metabolomics, through lab through metabolomics, through lab through metabolomics, through lab testing. That's what functional health testing. That's what functional health testing. That's what functional health is allowing people to do is get really is allowing people to do is get really is allowing people to do is get really deep personal data sets on themselves. deep personal data sets on themselves. deep personal data sets on themselves. And that's really the future. I did want And that's really the future. I did want And that's really the future. I did want to kind of double back on something you to kind of double back on something you to kind of double back on something you said because it kind of struck me, and I said because it kind of struck me, and I said because it kind of struck me, and I think maybe people listening would go, think maybe people listening would go, think maybe people listening would go, "Oh, wait a minute." You said, you know, "Oh, wait a minute." You said, you know, "Oh, wait a minute." You said, you know, we can we can reverse lifestyle-related we can we can reverse lifestyle-related we can we can reverse lifestyle-related diseases. diseases. diseases. Okay, people can maybe come to terms Okay, people can maybe come to terms Okay, people can maybe come to terms with that. But you said we can also with that. But you said we can also with that. But you said we can also potentially reverse genetic diseases. potentially reverse genetic diseases. potentially reverse genetic diseases. So, can you talk about what you mean by So, can you talk about what you mean by So, can you talk about what you mean by that? that? that? >> You know, what is so wild, every week >> You know, what is so wild, every week >> You know, what is so wild, every week people, you know, are reaching out to us people, you know, are reaching out to us people, you know, are reaching out to us to tell us to tell us to tell us that their son or daughter who has a that their son or daughter who has a that their son or daughter who has a genetic disease genetic disease genetic disease who whose physician said, "Look, there's who whose physician said, "Look, there's who whose physician said, "Look, there's nothing more I can do." nothing more I can do." nothing more I can do." And uh someone sends them my book and I And uh someone sends them my book and I And uh someone sends them my book and I say, say, say, "Read this book and implement what you "Read this book and implement what you "Read this book and implement what you can." can." can." Uh and so Uh and so Uh and so they read read my book, maximize the they read read my book, maximize the they read read my book, maximize the nutrition and all the lifestyle factors. nutrition and all the lifestyle factors. nutrition and all the lifestyle factors. And these little boys, little girls And these little boys, little girls And these little boys, little girls begin improving begin improving begin improving for the first time. for the first time. for the first time. Uh and uh little boys uh who had, you Uh and uh little boys uh who had, you Uh and uh little boys uh who had, you know, uh really profound demyelinating know, uh really profound demyelinating know, uh really profound demyelinating disease disease disease uh begins hitting his milestones and uh begins hitting his milestones and uh begins hitting his milestones and sits up and starts crawling, is able to sits up and starts crawling, is able to sits up and starts crawling, is able to walk uh and talk again. Uh people with walk uh and talk again. Uh people with walk uh and talk again. Uh people with muscular dystrophy who are far more muscular dystrophy who are far more muscular dystrophy who are far more functional. People with cystic fibrosis functional. People with cystic fibrosis functional. People with cystic fibrosis who are far more functional. Then people who are far more functional. Then people who are far more functional. Then people with a wide variety of genetic disorders with a wide variety of genetic disorders with a wide variety of genetic disorders that I did not learn about and I have to that I did not learn about and I have to that I did not learn about and I have to go look up to figure out what they were. go look up to figure out what they were. go look up to figure out what they were. Uh and so it's not that we stop the Uh and so it's not that we stop the Uh and so it's not that we stop the genetic disorder, genetic disorder, genetic disorder, but if you actually eat a better diet but if you actually eat a better diet but if you actually eat a better diet and address the modifiable lifestyle and address the modifiable lifestyle and address the modifiable lifestyle uh factors, that genetic disorder is uh factors, that genetic disorder is uh factors, that genetic disorder is nowhere nowhere nowhere uh as um negative as it was previously. uh as um negative as it was previously. uh as um negative as it was previously. So the person still has their genetic So the person still has their genetic So the person still has their genetic disorder, but we have we have regressed disorder, but we have we have regressed disorder, but we have we have regressed the severity of it. the severity of it. the severity of it. >> I think this is such a radical idea. And >> I think this is such a radical idea. And >> I think this is such a radical idea. And and Terry, I'm so excited you're talking and Terry, I'm so excited you're talking and Terry, I'm so excited you're talking about it because it's something that about it because it's something that about it because it's something that I've noticed in my practice I've noticed in my practice I've noticed in my practice and I haven't heard many people talk and I haven't heard many people talk and I haven't heard many people talk about, about, about, but I know it's true. but I know it's true. but I know it's true. >> I'll tell you the person who got me >> I'll tell you the person who got me >> I'll tell you the person who got me fired up to think about this is Bruce fired up to think about this is Bruce fired up to think about this is Bruce Ames, who said, "With targeted Ames, who said, "With targeted Ames, who said, "With targeted [clears throat] high-dose nutrition, you [clears throat] high-dose nutrition, you [clears throat] high-dose nutrition, you can prevent and reverse many uh genetic can prevent and reverse many uh genetic can prevent and reverse many uh genetic disorders." disorders." disorders." Uh and so now uh I'm uh actually talking Uh and so now uh I'm uh actually talking Uh and so now uh I'm uh actually talking about that in my in my next book as about that in my in my next book as about that in my in my next book as well. well. well. >> Well, I want to unpack this a little bit >> Well, I want to unpack this a little bit >> Well, I want to unpack this a little bit for people listening so they understand for people listening so they understand for people listening so they understand what we're talking about. It's not if what we're talking about. It's not if what we're talking about. It's not if you have someone with sickle cell you have someone with sickle cell you have someone with sickle cell that you're going to that you're going to that you're going to edit their gene and then cure them. edit their gene and then cure them. edit their gene and then cure them. That's something that that is going to That's something that that is going to That's something that that is going to happen in medicine and thank God that happen in medicine and thank God that happen in medicine and thank God that there are people who have very serious there are people who have very serious there are people who have very serious genetic disorders that can have a very genetic disorders that can have a very genetic disorders that can have a very advanced technology to edit their genes advanced technology to edit their genes advanced technology to edit their genes and change that. That's great. You can't and change that. That's great. You can't and change that. That's great. You can't modify the genes other than through modify the genes other than through modify the genes other than through genetic, but you can modify the genetic, but you can modify the genetic, but you can modify the expression of the genes. expression of the genes. expression of the genes. And this is something we know every baby And this is something we know every baby And this is something we know every baby who's born in every hospital in the who's born in every hospital in the who's born in every hospital in the world or maybe not everywhere or but world or maybe not everywhere or but world or maybe not everywhere or but most places in the world gets a heel most places in the world gets a heel most places in the world gets a heel stick and they check for a blood test stick and they check for a blood test stick and they check for a blood test called PKU, phenylketonuria, which is a called PKU, phenylketonuria, which is a called PKU, phenylketonuria, which is a uncommon inherited genetic disorder that uncommon inherited genetic disorder that uncommon inherited genetic disorder that if you have it and you don't stop the if you have it and you don't stop the if you have it and you don't stop the consumption of the amino acid consumption of the amino acid consumption of the amino acid phenylalanine in your diet, the kids phenylalanine in your diet, the kids phenylalanine in your diet, the kids turn into highly developmentally turn into highly developmentally turn into highly developmentally delayed, handicapped, mentally delayed, handicapped, mentally delayed, handicapped, mentally challenged, you know, challenged, you know, challenged, you know, physically, physiologically deformed physically, physiologically deformed physically, physiologically deformed people. people. people. And yet if they don't consume this one And yet if they don't consume this one And yet if they don't consume this one amino acid, they're normal. amino acid, they're normal. amino acid, they're normal. So you're not changing their genes, So you're not changing their genes, So you're not changing their genes, you're changing the expression of the you're changing the expression of the you're changing the expression of the genes based on modifying some factor genes based on modifying some factor genes based on modifying some factor that you can change. And I've seen this that you can change. And I've seen this that you can change. And I've seen this over and over. Even with Down's patients over and over. Even with Down's patients over and over. Even with Down's patients I've had, you can't cure Down syndrome, I've had, you can't cure Down syndrome, I've had, you can't cure Down syndrome, obviously, but you can change the obviously, but you can change the obviously, but you can change the quality of your life, you can improve quality of your life, you can improve quality of your life, you can improve their functioning, you can perhaps delay their functioning, you can perhaps delay their functioning, you can perhaps delay some of the complications like dementia some of the complications like dementia some of the complications like dementia or or diabetes that happen with these or or diabetes that happen with these or or diabetes that happen with these with these patients. And then with these patients. And then with these patients. And then I've seen this with many other genetic I've seen this with many other genetic I've seen this with many other genetic diseases where diseases where diseases where you understand that when you have a gene you understand that when you have a gene you understand that when you have a gene that's making a protein this if there's that's making a protein this if there's that's making a protein this if there's a problem with a gene, gene is going to a problem with a gene, gene is going to a problem with a gene, gene is going to make a funny protein. Well, what does make a funny protein. Well, what does make a funny protein. Well, what does that protein that protein that protein do? How do you work around it? What do? How do you work around it? What do? How do you work around it? What other pathways does your body have to other pathways does your body have to other pathways does your body have to compensate for it? How do you optimize compensate for it? How do you optimize compensate for it? How do you optimize the various nutrients that are involved the various nutrients that are involved the various nutrients that are involved in regulating those those protein in regulating those those protein in regulating those those protein interactions? And And like you said, interactions? And And like you said, interactions? And And like you said, Bruce Ames talked about this. He talked Bruce Ames talked about this. He talked Bruce Ames talked about this. He talked about how 1/3 of our entire DNA codes about how 1/3 of our entire DNA codes about how 1/3 of our entire DNA codes for enzymes and every single enzyme for enzymes and every single enzyme for enzymes and every single enzyme requires a helper and all the helpers requires a helper and all the helpers requires a helper and all the helpers are vitamins and minerals, and all of us are vitamins and minerals, and all of us are vitamins and minerals, and all of us need different varying amounts of those need different varying amounts of those need different varying amounts of those in order to function properly. And so, in order to function properly. And so, in order to function properly. And so, this is This is really deep science, and this is This is really deep science, and this is This is really deep science, and yet it's it's just heartbreaking to me yet it's it's just heartbreaking to me yet it's it's just heartbreaking to me that it's not applied. And And I When I that it's not applied. And And I When I that it's not applied. And And I When I see somebody or a friend who's got a kid see somebody or a friend who's got a kid see somebody or a friend who's got a kid with a genetic issue, I'm saying, "Hey, with a genetic issue, I'm saying, "Hey, with a genetic issue, I'm saying, "Hey, don't be hopeless. Like, let's look at don't be hopeless. Like, let's look at don't be hopeless. Like, let's look at the biology here." And And now with AI, the biology here." And And now with AI, the biology here." And And now with AI, it's amazing. Like, I I saw a friend of it's amazing. Like, I I saw a friend of it's amazing. Like, I I saw a friend of mine had a kid who had a mutation, and I mine had a kid who had a mutation, and I mine had a kid who had a mutation, and I was like, "Well, I don't really know was like, "Well, I don't really know was like, "Well, I don't really know much about this. I read about it in much about this. I read about it in much about this. I read about it in medical school, but let me do some medical school, but let me do some medical school, but let me do some research." And I inquired about it, and research." And I inquired about it, and research." And I inquired about it, and I was like, "Okay, what are the I was like, "Okay, what are the I was like, "Okay, what are the proteins? What are the pathways? What's proteins? What are the pathways? What's proteins? What are the pathways? What's the biochemistry? What are the the biochemistry? What are the the biochemistry? What are the workarounds? What should be the dietary workarounds? What should be the dietary workarounds? What should be the dietary interventions? What supplements could interventions? What supplements could interventions? What supplements could help?" And I was like, "Oh, wow, there's help?" And I was like, "Oh, wow, there's help?" And I was like, "Oh, wow, there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do." And a whole bunch of stuff you can do." And a whole bunch of stuff you can do." And I'm like, "You can actually do something I'm like, "You can actually do something I'm like, "You can actually do something and be proactive about it." and be proactive about it." and be proactive about it." >> You know, it And that is uh what I want >> You know, it And that is uh what I want >> You know, it And that is uh what I want everyone who's listening today everyone who's listening today everyone who's listening today uh to understand is uh to understand is uh to understand is there is so much that we can do there is so much that we can do there is so much that we can do to create health, to have the best to create health, to have the best to create health, to have the best possible life that is possible for you possible life that is possible for you possible life that is possible for you and the people you care about. and the people you care about. and the people you care about. >> Yeah, that's it. It's It's It's really >> Yeah, that's it. It's It's It's really >> Yeah, that's it. It's It's It's really the future of medicine, I believe, is is the future of medicine, I believe, is is the future of medicine, I believe, is is what you're working on, Terry, and what what you're working on, Terry, and what what you're working on, Terry, and what you're researching, which is you're researching, which is you're researching, which is less about the science of disease and less about the science of disease and less about the science of disease and more about the science of health. more about the science of health. more about the science of health. >> I love that. Mhm. >> I love that. Mhm. >> I love that. Mhm. >> I've always said that, you know, >> I've always said that, you know, >> I've always said that, you know, when you create health, disease goes when you create health, disease goes when you create health, disease goes away as a side effect. You don't have to away as a side effect. You don't have to away as a side effect. You don't have to treat all the diseases. I mean, and you treat all the diseases. I mean, and you treat all the diseases. I mean, and you see this if you just Like, see this if you just Like, see this if you just Like, I I I I was part of this church called I I I I was part of this church called I I I I was part of this church called the Faith Based Wellness Program called the Faith Based Wellness Program called the Faith Based Wellness Program called the Daniel Plan, and we got a church of the Daniel Plan, and we got a church of the Daniel Plan, and we got a church of 30,000 people to do this lifestyle 30,000 people to do this lifestyle 30,000 people to do this lifestyle change program, and it was, you know, change program, and it was, you know, change program, and it was, you know, healthy eating and exercise, and you healthy eating and exercise, and you healthy eating and exercise, and you know, they already had the community know, they already had the community know, they already had the community aspect, and aspect, and aspect, and and it was amazing to see the the and it was amazing to see the the and it was amazing to see the the transformation. Not just a quarter transformation. Not just a quarter transformation. Not just a quarter million pounds of weight loss, but million pounds of weight loss, but million pounds of weight loss, but depression going away, autoimmune depression going away, autoimmune depression going away, autoimmune diseases going away, people, you know, diseases going away, people, you know, diseases going away, people, you know, having hospitalizations 10 times a year, having hospitalizations 10 times a year, having hospitalizations 10 times a year, not going to the hospital at all, not going to the hospital at all, not going to the hospital at all, getting off medication. It didn't matter getting off medication. It didn't matter getting off medication. It didn't matter what the problem was. when you create what the problem was. when you create what the problem was. when you create health it's like disease can't find a health it's like disease can't find a health it's like disease can't find a place to rest. And we saw this with place to rest. And we saw this with place to rest. And we saw this with COVID-19, right? People who died were COVID-19, right? People who died were COVID-19, right? People who died were the ones who were unhealthy, who were the ones who were unhealthy, who were the ones who were unhealthy, who were diabetic or overweight or who had some diabetic or overweight or who had some diabetic or overweight or who had some kind of chronic illness. kind of chronic illness. kind of chronic illness. It wasn't necessarily just the virus, it It wasn't necessarily just the virus, it It wasn't necessarily just the virus, it was the host. And so, what you're really was the host. And so, what you're really was the host. And so, what you're really talking about is is bringing back the talking about is is bringing back the talking about is is bringing back the idea of how to create a healthy host, idea of how to create a healthy host, idea of how to create a healthy host, how to create a healthy human being so how to create a healthy human being so how to create a healthy human being so that disease doesn't have a place to that disease doesn't have a place to that disease doesn't have a place to take root. Well, what's next Terry for take root. Well, what's next Terry for take root. Well, what's next Terry for you? What's what's kind of on the you? What's what's kind of on the you? What's what's kind of on the horizon? What are you most excited horizon? What are you most excited horizon? What are you most excited about? about? about? >> Well, um well, actually I'm most excited >> Well, um well, actually I'm most excited >> Well, um well, actually I'm most excited about about about >> you're going to be 120, so you're just >> you're going to be 120, so you're just >> you're going to be 120, so you're just like in middle age right now. like in middle age right now. like in middle age right now. >> in middle age. >> in middle age. >> in middle age. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> We're going to be having more medical >> We're going to be having more medical >> We're going to be having more medical students. We're going to have more post students. We're going to have more post students. We're going to have more post docs. docs. docs. Uh the research grant that um we sent Uh the research grant that um we sent Uh the research grant that um we sent off for progressive multiple sclerosis, off for progressive multiple sclerosis, off for progressive multiple sclerosis, I'm very excited about that. Well, I I I'm very excited about that. Well, I I I'm very excited about that. Well, I I plan to start that study plan to start that study plan to start that study uh yeah, in October. uh yeah, in October. uh yeah, in October. Uh and I as I mentioned earlier, I am Uh and I as I mentioned earlier, I am Uh and I as I mentioned earlier, I am working on developing a protocol for working on developing a protocol for working on developing a protocol for pediatric onset multiple sclerosis. Um I pediatric onset multiple sclerosis. Um I pediatric onset multiple sclerosis. Um I think that is uh what I'm excited about. think that is uh what I'm excited about. think that is uh what I'm excited about. And now after you mentioned Maha And now after you mentioned Maha And now after you mentioned Maha elevate, I'm going to have to go look elevate, I'm going to have to go look elevate, I'm going to have to go look into that and develop a proposal for into that and develop a proposal for into that and develop a proposal for that because that because that because you know, really it is this multimodal you know, really it is this multimodal you know, really it is this multimodal lifestyle intervention that optimizes uh lifestyle intervention that optimizes uh lifestyle intervention that optimizes uh nutrition, uh stress reduction, sleep, nutrition, uh stress reduction, sleep, nutrition, uh stress reduction, sleep, uh exercise, uh deep social connection uh exercise, uh deep social connection uh exercise, uh deep social connection that is the biggest lever for creating that is the biggest lever for creating that is the biggest lever for creating health and therefore excluding disease. health and therefore excluding disease. health and therefore excluding disease. When I get off this podcast, I'm going When I get off this podcast, I'm going When I get off this podcast, I'm going to have to go look up Maha [laughter] to have to go look up Maha [laughter] to have to go look up Maha [laughter] elevate. elevate. elevate. >> Yeah, you're going to be amazed. >> Yeah, you're going to be amazed. >> Yeah, you're going to be amazed. >> about uh that proposal because >> about uh that proposal because >> about uh that proposal because >> You you're going to be blown away, >> You you're going to be blown away, >> You you're going to be blown away, Terry. Imagine a Medicare website that Terry. Imagine a Medicare website that Terry. Imagine a Medicare website that says functional medicine on it. Like, says functional medicine on it. Like, says functional medicine on it. Like, that just blew my mind, honestly. And that just blew my mind, honestly. And that just blew my mind, honestly. And and I think uh I'm going to meet with and I think uh I'm going to meet with and I think uh I'm going to meet with the the head of the NIH in a few months. the the head of the NIH in a few months. the the head of the NIH in a few months. I want to I want to talk to you about I want to I want to talk to you about I want to I want to talk to you about maybe sharing some of your proposals and maybe sharing some of your proposals and maybe sharing some of your proposals and ideas with him because I I think he'd be ideas with him because I I think he'd be ideas with him because I I think he'd be very interested. very interested. very interested. >> Yeah, because >> Yeah, because >> Yeah, because um um um you know, I I think there's less and you know, I I think there's less and you know, I I think there's less and less resistance to what basically I less resistance to what basically I less resistance to what basically I investigate and research, which is these investigate and research, which is these investigate and research, which is these multiple modifiable lifestyle multiple modifiable lifestyle multiple modifiable lifestyle interventions at once to create health. interventions at once to create health. interventions at once to create health. Uh and as you say, as a side effect, we Uh and as you say, as a side effect, we Uh and as you say, as a side effect, we stabilize and then regress chronic stabilize and then regress chronic stabilize and then regress chronic disease. disease. disease. >> Incredible, Terry. Well, thank you for >> Incredible, Terry. Well, thank you for >> Incredible, Terry. Well, thank you for your work. I'm so glad you recovered. I your work. I'm so glad you recovered. I your work. I'm so glad you recovered. I don't I think that you you know, you're don't I think that you you know, you're don't I think that you you know, you're you've taken your own suffering and you've taken your own suffering and you've taken your own suffering and transmuted into something incredible in transmuted into something incredible in transmuted into something incredible in the world and have given so many people the world and have given so many people the world and have given so many people hope and inspiration and also not just hope and inspiration and also not just hope and inspiration and also not just hope, but you've helped so many people hope, but you've helped so many people hope, but you've helped so many people recover and I I've met many of them and recover and I I've met many of them and recover and I I've met many of them and I'm just so grateful for your work. And I'm just so grateful for your work. And I'm just so grateful for your work. And uh and like you, you know, I also uh and like you, you know, I also uh and like you, you know, I also suffered from many chronic illnesses and suffered from many chronic illnesses and suffered from many chronic illnesses and had to recover and that's really why I had to recover and that's really why I had to recover and that's really why I can't stop myself from can't stop myself from can't stop myself from >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> you know, going going and going. >> you know, going going and going. >> you know, going going and going. >> Yeah, we have to we have to keep letting >> Yeah, we have to we have to keep letting >> Yeah, we have to we have to keep letting the world know that if you can recover, the world know that if you can recover, the world know that if you can recover, if I can recover from such profound if I can recover from such profound if I can recover from such profound disability, disability, disability, there is absolutely hope for you as there is absolutely hope for you as there is absolutely hope for you as well. well. well. >> Yeah, there is hope. There is hope. I >> Yeah, there is hope. There is hope. I >> Yeah, there is hope. There is hope. I want everyone to leave with a message of want everyone to leave with a message of want everyone to leave with a message of hope and possibility and don't stop hope and possibility and don't stop hope and possibility and don't stop looking, searching, asking and don't looking, searching, asking and don't looking, searching, asking and don't take no for an answer cuz there is often take no for an answer cuz there is often take no for an answer cuz there is often a way a way a way if not to cure, certainly to if not to cure, certainly to if not to cure, certainly to dramatically improve whatever is going dramatically improve whatever is going dramatically improve whatever is going on with you if you understand how the on with you if you understand how the on with you if you understand how the body works and how to work with it and body works and how to work with it and body works and how to work with it and create health. So, thank you, Terry. create health. So, thank you, Terry. create health. So, thank you, Terry. Thanks for being the inspiration here Thanks for being the inspiration here Thanks for being the inspiration here that you are. It's been an honor to know that you are. It's been an honor to know that you are. It's been an honor to know you all these years and to be on this you all these years and to be on this you all these years and to be on this path with you and keep the uh path with you and keep the uh path with you and keep the uh you know, you know, you know, the edifice is cracking. I feel like we the edifice is cracking. I feel like we the edifice is cracking. I feel like we we've been in this game for a long time we've been in this game for a long time we've been in this game for a long time and I can see, you know, the the old the and I can see, you know, the the old the and I can see, you know, the the old the old uh edifice of medicine is starting old uh edifice of medicine is starting old uh edifice of medicine is starting to crack and there's this opening to to crack and there's this opening to to crack and there's this opening to these new ideas at major academic these new ideas at major academic these new ideas at major academic centers and I'm I'm really thrilled. So, centers and I'm I'm really thrilled. So, centers and I'm I'm really thrilled. So, thank you again, Terry, for what you do thank you again, Terry, for what you do thank you again, Terry, for what you do and for your work and where can people and for your work and where can people and for your work and where can people find more about you where can they learn find more about you where can they learn find more about you where can they learn about your studies? about your studies? about your studies? >> So go to terrywahls.com that's t e r r y >> So go to terrywahls.com that's t e r r y >> So go to terrywahls.com that's t e r r y wahls w a h l s dot com wahls w a h l s dot com wahls w a h l s dot com and if you add and if you add and if you add trials trials trials you can see the studies that we're at you can see the studies that we're at you can see the studies that we're at and terrywahls.com and terrywahls.com and terrywahls.com forward slash forward slash forward slash diet you get a one page handout for the diet you get a one page handout for the diet you get a one page handout for the wahls diet wahls diet wahls diet and if you follow me on Instagram at and if you follow me on Instagram at and if you follow me on Instagram at doctor terrywahls d r t e r r y w a h l doctor terrywahls d r t e r r y w a h l doctor terrywahls d r t e r r y w a h l s get to see what I'm eating and doing s get to see what I'm eating and doing s get to see what I'm eating and doing and occasionally get to see me run out and occasionally get to see me run out and occasionally get to see me run out after my sauna and roll in the snow after my sauna and roll in the snow after my sauna and roll in the snow so there's lots of fun stuff there. so there's lots of fun stuff there. so there's lots of fun stuff there. >> Well thanks Terry and thanks everybody >> Well thanks Terry and thanks everybody >> Well thanks Terry and thanks everybody and make sure you check out her books and make sure you check out her books and make sure you check out her books her website her program or research if her website her program or research if her website her program or research if you're somebody out there who cares you're somebody out there who cares you're somebody out there who cares about this and about this and about this and has some philanthropic dollars send them has some philanthropic dollars send them has some philanthropic dollars send them her way she's going to make good use of her way she's going to make good use of her way she's going to make good use of my promise and and everybody listening my promise and and everybody listening my promise and and everybody listening I hope you got some help from this I hope you got some help from this I hope you got some help from this conversation and [music] understand that conversation and [music] understand that conversation and [music] understand that there is a way out of of the darkness there is a way out of of the darkness there is a way out of of the darkness that you may be feeling around some type that you may be feeling around some type that you may be feeling around some type of chronic [music] illness it just takes of chronic [music] illness it just takes of chronic [music] illness it just takes pointing in the right direction and I pointing in the right direction and I pointing in the right direction and I think we know we're we're helping you think we know we're we're helping you think we know we're we're helping you see that hopefully [music] with with the see that hopefully [music] with with the see that hopefully [music] with with the information we shared today. information we shared today. information we shared today. >> If you loved that last video you're >> If you loved that last video you're >> If you loved that last video you're going to love the next one check it out going to love the next one check it out going to love the next one check it out here.