Free Weights vs Machines, Slow vs Fast Reps… The Truth Nobody Admits | Mind Pump 2799

Key Takeaway

Strength training isn't just about building muscle—it's about building usable strength. Free weights develop functional strength that translates to real-world movement, while also improving joint health and mobility. The key insight: slower, controlled reps (like a 4-2-2 tempo) dramatically reduce injury risk while building just as much muscle as faster reps, making them ideal for 90% of people. Master the fundamentals with proper form and full range of motion before chasing intensity.

Episode Overview

This episode breaks down five major training debates: free weights vs machines, slow vs fast reps, strict vs loose form, full vs short range of motion, and HIIT vs steady-state cardio. The hosts make the case that while studies often show similar short-term results, the long-term benefits of foundational training principles—free weights, controlled tempo, full range of motion—far outweigh their alternatives for most people. They emphasize that training choices should be based on individual goals, experience level, and injury risk rather than dogmatic adherence to one method.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Free Weights vs Machines, Slow vs Fast Reps… The Truth Nobody Admits | Mind Pump 2799 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

It's the ultimate showdown. Free weights versus machines, slow reps versus fast reps, strict form versus looser form, full range of motion versus short range of motion, and hit cardio versus steadystate cardio. If you always wondered which one was superior, just stay tuned. We're going to answer that for you. Let's go. The ultimate showdown. I wanted to pick the ones that tend to cause the most uh questions and controversy and debate and discussion and the ones that have a little bit of science to support each side.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These are good these are good conversations. I think uh I mean I I think the think the think the the common theme we'll find in all of them is they're all tools. Um but I it does seem as though people get in camps with each of them. Totally. Totally. Totally. Where it's like this is the way or this is better. So that's what they do more of or only of and so I think that's so it makes for a good discussion and probably for us to make the case of why and how you use each.

Totally. All right, let's start with the first one. Free weights versus machines. We've talked about this before. Uh I think the we have to frame this properly because the debate uh or the discussion uh or I should should I say people will disagree when they don't have the proper framing. People typically look at strength training and just look at hypertrophy. hypertrophy. hypertrophy. Yeah. They just say what builds the muscle muscle muscle muscle activation and hypertrophy. That's their entire argument. That's it. Uh and if it's just about building muscle, uh I can make the argument that free weights are better, but there's data that sh says that they're kind of similar if not the same.

But uh so you have that. So I'll just I'll agree with that. Fine. Let's just say they're the same. Is that all you get from strength training? No. You also get strength and you need usable strength. How does it work in the real world? You also have individuality. Uh how does the exercise fit the person? Uh and then you have health and mobility. Uh which one is going to if done properly is going to lead to healthier joints and healthier movement patterns. patterns. patterns. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now that I framed it that way, I think it's a easy knockout. I I'd like to see the free weights. I'd like to even see the studies uh because I I know we have some of our we have some smart friends of ours that are are big advocates for machines on hypertrophy, but I'd like to see uh those Yeah. one I'd like to see those done in extending extending extending longterm studies long-term even just a year like I don't need like super long term, but a year a year worth of you won't find a year.

And then I'd also like to see things more than just like muscle activation stuff because that's what the a lot of the argument comes from that, right? because machines do a really good job. Uh they don't isolate, but emphasizing a muscle, muscle, muscle, you have less to worry about. Yeah. Because there's there's less stability involved. stability involved. stability involved. Um you're locked in a position. You can really focus on that muscle. And so when you when you use the machines that show like the lighting up of the muscle, it's like, "Oh, this is really lighting it up." up." up." But I would argue the stabilization part and due to the free weights and skill and CNS piece and adaptation you get to that the carryover to that of for total muscle building longterm.

I would think that those studies would would pretty much much much and looking at like continual benefits that you gain. Yeah. So, like if if you're continuously using this style, like if if you were to draw us up even a year to two years and like you stayed in that that camp, like I would be very interested to look at the difference between that person and their strength uh abilities. Yeah, I'll back I'll back you guys up. So, um when you're doing an exercise, there's a skill component and then there's the adaptations uh that occur or that are induced from the exercise.

There's a learning curve with the skill. So at in the beginning, you have to get good enough at the exercise before you can do it well enough to induce the muscle growth adaptations. Okay? So you got to learn how to do it first. So there's a learning curve. In other words, if you gave me 50 random people and 25 of them did the leg press for 30 days and then 25 of them did the barbell squat for 30 days, you're going to see more strength gains in the leg press group.

Why? Because a leg press leg press requires very little skill. I could take the average person to have them leg press. The average person is probably gonna take me 60 days to get them good enough at a squat to be able to do it in a way to where now we're starting to build. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So, so when studies are short, it doesn't tell the whole story. Now, I agree with you, Adam, because of the skill involved, uh, because it's more of a technical exercise, the gains continue far longer.

Yeah. than they would in a leg press where whereas a leg press will cause a faster plateau. That's based on my experience. We don't have studies to support that because you're right there are no studies are a year long at best or 16 weeks. Also uh the limitation you have by just with with machines like that doesn't translate into other exercises uh very well at all or any just movement in general uh doesn't translate very well. Well, what are you lifting you're lifting in the real world?

You're always lifting something that is free. You're never lifting something on a track or in some kind of controlled uh manner. It's it's where it's controlled for you. If I have to move this table or a couch or my kids or anything, it's free. So the transfer of strength isolated what most these studies are what at best 10 to 16 weeks long typically. So I mean at least the ones you want to pay attention and what I what I would guess what we would see on a graph is you know relatively close relatively close relatively close as far as muscle gain in those those say 16 weeks 16 weeks 16 weeks and then what but if we were to extend that out for an entire year what I think you would see is that you'd see the machines start to plateau and you would see the freeways continue see you would see the freeways continue to and the gap would increase the more time the more that gap would increase.

So if we took somebody and we literally said you only can do two exercises. You can do a leg press or a hack squat and this person learn barbell back squat in two years. two years. two years. Only those two movements and extend it all the way out. No competition. competition. competition. Well, not to mention the dysfunction that's going to create if you get that strong for that long doing the same thing and it's not in combination with a movement pattern that is beneficial. like it you're going to end up being too strong in one specific area which the other uh if you're not like in combination.

combination. combination. I think what you're saying I think what you're saying is is is not argued like I think that's a like like no functional person would be like would make the argument that the machine's better. The argument that that I think that Sal's alluding to the most is the hypertrophy one. There's a there's a hypertrophy camp. camp. camp. That's their argument that will really push the machine argument more. And I that one's more fun to debate to me because I think yours is like a that's how my brain works.

I know that's what I mean. That's like like your your argument is like like Yeah. Find me a functional person that would argue that what you're saying isn't true. Like or find me even a muscle building person that wouldn't would would try and argue against you what you're saying cuz that's obvious to me. But there's a lot of people that will in the in the muscle building hypertrophy community that will say machines are as good or better at hypertrophy than free weights are. And I would I like that argument that's more fun to me because we what we see in these studies.

They're so short. That's right. right. right. And there it doesn't tell the whole story about free weights. And you know, if you just were to take two simple movements like a leg press or a hack squat for the from the machine camp to pick either one of those or both, I don't care. And then just put it against a barbell back squat but extend it for two years and both and the and the the groups could only do those things. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god.

The barbell back squat is going to it's going to smoke that person. Now, now again, again, again, from both from a built hypertrophy point, point, point, and now just to kind of mix both of them together, together, together, let's just say for argument's sake, they're equivalent for muscle growth. They're the same. What if I could throw in some extra you're stronger in the real world, you've got better function, and you longer, like, cool. Like, okay, so now we have a a winner. But I argue the same thing you say, uh, Adam, and we trained people for years, and we trained ourselves for years, but mainly clients for years.

Uh machines are there's value in machines, in machines, in machines, but when you're comparing with free weights, they're limited. Here's the other thing. Machines don't work well for everybody. Free weights I can adapt to anyone. The free weight move adapts to your body. Machine, your body has to adapt to the machine. There's many times a guy like me, and I'm not huge. I'm only 6' tall, but I'm taller than the average where I have to get in the machine and angle my body differently so that it works properly because a machine is designed for a 5'9 man.

That's what the So, if you're a short girl, if you're a tall guy, if you've got a movement that isn't at somewhat outside of whatever, then machines can be kind of weird. Whereas a free follows your body and it fits everybody. Hey, do you want to get trained by Adam, Justin, and myself for 30 days? Mind pumps 30 days of coaching. It's 100% free. We give you daily coaching videos, myth busting training tips, and real-time guidance. It's a full month of coaching. It's totally free. Click the link below, sign up for free, and start day one right now.

Let's get healthy. Now, now just to play devil devil's advocate. And so we like because this I know how quickly this can turn into like the the you know, get clipped and it's like we're making this argument for throw machines away. Like there's plenty of times where I I'm using machines with a client and not using a free barbell back squat or something like that. We're not saying don't use machines, but especially when you're talking risk factors as well. There there's a there is a lot of of of times where um I'm going to use a machine over the free weights with a client for a very specific reason.

But if we're talking in general and we're trying to compare somebody who's looking for the the max amount of muscle they want to build, the there is arguments that that it's been tried to be made on the hypertrophy side for his machines. And I I disagree. I think free weights is better. is better. is better. All right. Now, reps. Slow reps versus fast reps or I'll say uh slow rep would be uh a tempo uh what's the traditional tempo? Is it a two uh 214? Is that what it is?

it is? it is? For what? For a slow for like bodybuilding 42. 422. Sorry. 422. So that's a 4 second negative, 2 second positive, 2C pause. Uh versus faster reps. These are reps that are 111. Yeah. 111. Okay. Uh for most people, by the way, from a muscle building standpoint. Okay. So we'll start there because everybody's interested in that. They're pretty similar. They're probably identical. 111 versus a 422. You're going to build probably the same amount of muscle and it's going to look the same. Uh, now there's a very big difference in risk.

Risk is Yeah. And there's also a very big difference in athletic performance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Risk way lower with a 422. Way lower with slow reps. Fast reps, the risk goes through the roof in comparison for athletic performance. Fast reps are going to translate better to the field optimal optimal optimal than slow reps. So here you got to kind of pick which one works best for you. But I can tell you this, 90% of the people listening right now are going to be better off doing the the slower reps than the faster reps.

Yeah. I would make the argument they would even build more muscle if we if we had to extend again extend something out for a you know one year period of time and one group only did fast reps, one group did 422. I would make the case that you would you would build more. Why are you throwing in that you're going to hurt yourself and that'll stop the process? the process? the process? No, not even that. Let's just assume, let's assume uh you have you have great technique in both.

Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Yeah. Great technique in both. And let's assume it's novel for both like those all those all things being equal. I know this would be very hard to put a study together like this where you'd have, you know, equal skill sets and and novelty for both these, but let's just pretend that I I would argue the 422 for for building muscle because with a 111 there's uh there's more maybe function hypertrophy wise. Yeah. Yeah. Hypertrophy wise. Yeah. Hypertrophy wise you would uh you could you would get maybe stronger off of 111, I think.

So, so I think you would get stronger, but I think you would build more muscle on a 422. 422. 422. Your capacity to generate force. That's right. Like so fast reps. What would end up happening? What you would end up is you would uh you would look like again this is uh generalizing, but the one who goes 111 would uh be stronger like a Olympic lifter and the 422 would be weaker but more. So for athletic that would be my argument. So, for athletic performance, uh 111, that's that's a silly argument.

Duh. Like, that's translate to to athletic performance way better because that's sports. Uh sports is moves quick. Uh the slower reps, here's what the data shows. The data shows that they they're pretty similar when it comes to building muscle. However, I'll agree with you guys. Why? When you look at the strength sports, when you look at all the sports that use weights, the ones that tend to build the most muscle or the ones that tend to have athletes that look the most muscular, and this isn't the best way to measure things, but bodybuilders and powerlifters tend to train with slower reps.

Olympic lifters definitely train with the faster reps. Uh, and you'll see a difference in the way they look, generally speaking. Now, yes, I know that there's some the genetic polymorphisms that tend to make you better at one or the other, but there's definitely been crossovers. Yeah, there's definitely been athletes. Oh, yeah. Sergio Olivia is an example of that. Sergio Olivia, bodybuilder of the 60s and 70s, uh was an Olympic lifter before he became a bodybuilder and his style of training changed and so did his physique as he changed.

So, my favorite Marinovich is like, you know, pretty muscular, but it was all fast twitching. So my favorite argument to make with this in regards to building muscle is that the one that's more novel will build the most no muscle for you. So if you are somebody who typically only trains in like the slow rep range and you're and you and you're and we're making that 422, right? So you train like a bodybuilder and you always train that way, you'll see tremendous muscle gains by going to a one.

Oh, I agree. Let me caution people right now. If you've been strength training for years and you've built a lot of muscle and you decide next week I'm gonna start going 111, real careful, real careful, real careful, go real light because you got a lot of muscle, you got a lot of strength, you're not used to moving quickly and this is injury city uh for for people joints. Yeah, you got or muscle tear in muscles. So, it's a skill that you got to slowly build yourself up to.

And there's also a reason why personal trainers almost never train 111. The risk factor is just very high. Yeah, strength training, especially as you're pushing intensity, you know, is there's always a risk fac. If you want to multiply that times 10, just do the same thing faster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so that's the big reason why. But if you're an athlete, like this is how you make your strength explosive. This is explosive strength. And explosive strength counts more than any other type of strength. The best thing I ever did as a you know, someone who identifies as like the bodybuilder type was moving away from the 422 train.

I trained that way for so long. long. long. What' you do? Was it just just uh uh high cleans or I mean I did a bunch of stuff if it's just even like a bench press explosive. I did stuff that I would never have done in the past. I was so the opposite that all movements done in an explosive type of fashion. You know my push presses. I didn't do push presses till I hung out with Justin. Like I didn't do movements like that because you know that bodybuilders didn't train that way.

I didn't think that. And I again I fell for the trap of hypertrophy training. It was 422 you know. So like why would I ever I'm not trying to be an Olympic lifter. What do I care if I get but but simply moving out of that box and going oh what if I did train like an Olympic lifter powerlifter for a while and see what happens. I mean I saw some of the greatest muscle gains I've ever seen. And so you just gave me some ideas.

Cool. Cool. Cool. If you are a hypertrophy guy and you've never just experimented with some of your movements done in that and again I caution you but if you're an advanced lifter like I trust that you would be able to do that. No problem. like move to some of these, you know, explosive type movement and watch the gains come on. on. on. Yeah. All right. Full range of motion. This is probably the easiest one versus short range of motion. Uh there's no no comparison. There are applications for short range of motion.

Highlevel competitive athletes. competitive athletes. competitive athletes. What I mean by high level is uh like Yeah. Like like the higher higher ages in high school and up, but definitely why LeBron James does quarter squats and it went viral. Yeah, for example. That's right. But early athletes, full range of motion, but as you get more specialized, short range of motion is more applicable to athletics. to athletics. to athletics. Short range of motion can also be good if you're targeting a range of motion that you need help in.

So, if it's like at the bottom or if it's lockout or whatever. Otherwise, it's always full range of motion. The strength that you build uh really translates or comes from the range of motion you train. So, it would be stupid for most people to tr to build strength in anything other than the full range of motion. Mhm. motion. Mhm. motion. Mhm. Uh and then the data does show full range of motion uh produces the most muscle growth. So aesthetically speaking, it's what you want to do.

It's almost always that, right? It's almost it's almost always a very specific when whenever there's a case for short range of motion. It has to be a very specific athletic application or sticking point type of application, right? I mean, I can't I can't ever see You'll see bodybuilders bodybuilders will do it sometimes where they're doing like the pumping reps and the kind of stretch position. stretch position. stretch position. Yeah. For sticking points. Yeah. Well, no. bodybuilders I think do it because they like the pump that it does if if you're watch it's novelty too though I mean for the most part they like to interrupt their normal training and do these shortened reps but yeah to your point is it's athletics it actually you can make a solid argument for that just because of the amount like if you look specifically of where we need to focus on generating the most force uh most effectively like why why steer beyond that because um this is this is where all the gold is let's stay let's stay let's stay emphasize and it's not just that Justin although that's a big part of the other part of it is when you're training a highlevel athlete what you don't want to do do do you also don't want to mess up their skill skill skill y y y so a so some a basketball player has to kind of do a partial squat to jump and there's a risk of training full range of motion squats to where it starts to mess with their technique yes yes yes so the so you're always strengthening their technique rather than giving them general strength otherwise things can kind of they would throw it off it's like taking a pro basketball player who has uh you know you movement patterns and you're like I'm going to correct your movement patterns.

Don't correct the movement patterns because they're so good with the movement patterns that if you correct them now you've changed everything. It's the same thing like like you know stretching and making sure you're super loose. Like you know it's like you need that tightness. You need that rigidity to really create and and optimize your force direction. force direction. force direction. By the way, you know who has what bodybuilder has some of the best technique and range of motion I've ever seen? Chris Bumstead. Have you seen his workouts?

workouts? workouts? Mm-m. his full he's got the fullest like a full range of motion a sque technique is like flawless. It's like he's a personal trainer except he train Yeah, he's a bodybuilder. Um all right, last high intensity interval training. This is hit cardio versus steady state. Uh it depends on what who you bring up Chris and then you go right into that. Did you see what happened to him though when he tried to incorporate sprints? Did he hurt himself? Yeah, of course. Pulled like a hammy like right away.

Oh yeah, of course. Especially it's a new skill. Yeah. You're trying to develop. Yeah. hit cardio uh burns more fat. It burns more calories in a shorter period of time. Uh studies will show it preserves more muscle because it's explosive. There's better athletic performance benefits. yada yada yada. Here's the problem with hit cardio. It's it doesn't most for most people. Uh it's inappropriate. inappropriate. inappropriate. Yeah. It requires it prerequisites are required. required. required. That's right. Yeah. It's just too intense. It burns them out. out. out.

Risk factors, you know, that's how you really weigh this one out. Yeah. Steady state works for everybody. Yeah. I this I mean this really depends on in my opinion what the client is seeking right like if you if you like what's great about HIT is that in a very short period of time I can I can reap some solid cardiovascular benefits. So if I had a client who's just like hey I want to I I want to build a little bit of you know endurance stamina cardio cardiovascular health uh 12 minutes of hit cardio is a short window to do something like that.

So it makes sense and that it would win for something that if we're talking about hypertrophies, body sculpting that direction than steady state cardio all day long. It's uh lower intensity more more overall movement also easier to implement throughout your day too instead of it doesn't have to be recuperative as well. It gives you that mus blood flow. Yes. So like these verse each other really to to me it has a lot to do with like okay what are you trying to uh accomplish here? because I could make an argument for hit um for that for specific things and I can also obviously make an argument for that but if we're talking about general get ripped get in shaped aesthetics like yeah steady state all day long.

Yeah, totally. I got to tell you guys a funny thing my son did out to dinner the other day which is just you know when little kids will do something that you want to get mad but you'll you kind of hide your face and laugh first because especially if it's super honest. Yes. Yeah. And you're like Yeah. Like you shouldn't have done that but you got to hide your face. So, we were at a restaurant. We're all eating out and uh my wife bought these like they're like coloring books, but that you don't color them with like crayons or markers.

They come with these like brushes that you add water to. They're awesome. They're awesome. They're awesome. Do you use them? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then when you paint with them, it's just water comes out and then when the water touches colors the paper. Yeah. So, when it touches the paper, the most brilliant thing they made for the paper changes color. So, they use the brush and the paper itself changes color. It's really cool. So she bought these and it's easy at a restaurant cuz you can just fill it up with the water from your cup.

And so my kids are coloring with this, right? And so my wife my son, you know, my my my son Aurelius is walking around and he's coming back and painting and he walks over and gets some water and he walks over and I'm looking at him and I could tell he's like he's got the you know cheeks like like what's he doing and he looks at down his page and just spits a bunch of water. He hits it. It just spits all over the table. Hell of water.

And And I knew his what I know was his mentality. He wants to see what would happen. would happen. would happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's figuring he's figuring out how this thing works. thing works. thing works. Dude, he just spit all over the table. Like we're all eating trying to eat dinner. He just spit water all over the table. You know, there's like full restaurant people around. Exactly what we do. Like Jessica and I picked up the menus. We're just cracking up real quick before we scold him for spinning on the table.

He's just smearing it in there. Oh, yeah. But I know his head, you know. He's like, "Oh, I wonder that's water." Trying to figure it out. Let me just spit off. He's trying to figure it out. Yeah. He's obviously pieced it together on how it works. He's a modern artist. You also got to be like cuz I I remember what it was like to be a little boy. So, you got to call you got to make sure that you like don't do this. Like, you think to yourself like I shouldn't have to tell him to throw a napkin in the fire that's at the restaurant cuz they'll have a fire outside to be warm.

Yeah. Like, but I'm like, "No, you need to tell your 5-year-old that 5-year-old that 5-year-old that say that." say that." say that." If you have a 5-year-old, especially a little boy, little boy, little boy, you got to tell him, "Hey, don't throw any napkins or anything in that fire, cuz for sure he sees the fire." First thing you're going to do, and that's what I did. I would have like, "Let me throw a straw in there. Let me see." Oh, yeah. I was trying to find insect.

You know, they make uh they make the Crayola markers like that, too. Right. So, they're Oh, you add water. No, you don't. They're actually built in. So, they're like all the colors. Uhhuh. Uh and and they're they're they're they're white tips, but it'll Oh, yeah. Yeah. It'll be red on and then they'll come with certain books. Yeah. Yeah. So, they're I mean, I think one of the most brilliant like that didn't exist when we were kids. And I remember as a kid marking up tables and marking things up.

things up. things up. Yeah. It doesn't mark anything. Have you seen the one where you take the the markers, you put them in this like device, you close it, and then it blows air through and it becomes like a airbrush? No. No. No. It's also Crayola. So, you'll airbrush with a regular marker. You put a regular marker on this innovation I missed. And you can just start. There's a lot of really there's a really cool I saw I showed you guys too like the the leap frog one for reading way back when where you you push the pen down and as it goes over the words it reads it to him.

So you were Let's see. You were probably I get I bet you Doug and Justin were big coloring book guys. Oh yeah. I colored everything huge. Oh, you guys were my my buddy did a thing for the 80s8s starter pack for when you were sick. His said uh Gatorade, saltine crackers, Price is Right, and uh so all of that, bro. So mine was almost like that. Mine was Seven Up, saltine crackers, Price is Right, and Coloring Book. My mom always brought me a coloring book whenever I was sick.

And like literally saltine crackers, Seven Up, and then I would color and watch Prices Right at home from school. from school. from school. That is the recipe. Add a little tussing in there. in there. in there. That's an 80s kid like uh That's an 80s kid like uh home from Right. This is how you know I'm ethnic, right? Because mine was ginger ale, but I think some people have ginger ale here. Pastina. So pastina is these tiny little pastas. Oh yeah. Yeah. Little that Italians give like a saltine cracker.

Kids whenever they're sick. Uh and then she would just let me watch TV all day, which is cool. So you know, which was Price is Right. Price is right was on at that time. But I think so all you guys were big. I never big coloring. I would color but I would turn it into a a war, you know? So like there would just be body parts and whatever flying on fire and then like like like what was in your head, bro? What was going on?

You know, if you were a kid today, they would have sent you to therapy. therapy. therapy. Yeah, they would. They would have been really confused. really confused. really confused. What movie is that? Super bad. Is it super bad? What movies were kids like? Well, that's where he draws all the dicks. dicks. dicks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which that came later. That was like when I was a teenager and I was just bored, you know. I was like in the DMV class especially. It was um all the driver driver's ed because you're in there and like you have I'm like oh my god like this is so boring.

You're probably really good at drawing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Just all the little details. details. details. Wow. Wow. Wow. I still like to color when Max has projects where he has to color. I always do it with Yeah. Yeah. I always hate it. Really? Really? Really? I hate it. Oh, it's such a like My wife will color with the kids all the time. time. time. It's like it's like satisfying though. It is. It's meditative for sure for me. That's why my wife does it. I used to draw when I was little though too though.

Did you guys ever draw? Like I was I actually draw I used to write stories. Oh yeah. I was better at drawing. I wrote all kinds of crazy stuff. You know what's crazy was I was good. I'm not anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I So my mom has like a whole bunch of stuff when I was like in, you know, elementary, junior high, even all the way to high school where I where I drew a lot of really good pictures. And I've tried to sit down and draw again.

I just I not like I was better as a kid than I am now. am now. am now. Because of the drugs. The drugs stupid. drugs stupid. drugs stupid. Speaking of Speaking of which, you're Bro, I'm telling you right now, dude. I I This is like I don't even know if this is a condition. Can we say the Moody's? Can we just say being Moody is a condition? Can we say that? I would say that's a condition. Yeah, cuz cuz Organified Happy Drops have cured a characteristic.

Adam's moodies. Adam's moodies. Adam's moodies. That's the new tagline. Organified Happy Drops cures Moody. Just balanced you out. Gets rid of the moodies. If you come in and eat that, I'm like, he's going to be He's still going to get mad. Candy. That's why it tastes like candy. That's why it's nostalgic for me. Well, hey, no, all joking aside, try it with your wife. It's if you look up Doug, you can look this up. Saffron, it is like one of as an SSRI. It's like one of the most studied ones.

It is a natural SSR. It will naturally raise serotonin in your system by re by uh inhibiting to an extent the re-uptake of serotonin. So, when your body re releases serotonin, it'll absorb a certain amount of it back up. And so, SSRIs are drugs, right? And what they do is they reduce the re-uptake of it, increasing circulating serotonin, which gives you the calming effects, the mood lifting effects, all that stuff. Saffron is a it's see it's a well potential SSR alternative, although it does uh uh increase serotonin levels, which so they're calling it a natural SSR.

I wonder if I sneak this in my youngest uh breakfast. uh breakfast. uh breakfast. Is he Is he moody? He's so angry in the morning. Really? What What is What like serotonin, melatonin? Like what's the is there an inverse relationship? Are they connected? Like if you have low levels of one, does it tend to affect you? Oh, what a great question. What made you ask that? ask that? ask that? Well, I was just thinking about like my like what I've been working on with my supplementation at night, getting better sleep, all those things.

Like if there's like some sort of a inverse or too much melatonin can cause depress a depressive effect. depressive effect. depressive effect. Yeah. And so I was wondering if it would Yeah. But the the there's there's probably I think there's a connection. You you should look that up. A connection or relationship. There you go. I think super high like if you were to take a bunch the direct precursor product relationship where the brains Yeah. pineal gland convert. Oh, there you go. The the pineal gland converts serotonin into melanin.

Uh melatonin especially in the dark. All right. right. right. What a great question. Third eye. Look at this guy. You're reading stuff not you hide it in your in your car magazine supplements. But if it's not knowing much, you don't say you got a lot of questions. Shut up. Shut up, dude. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause.

Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. We also have a brand new program launch. Ready? Maps. Great. Eight. Eight lifts only. Simple yet super effective. Build muscle, speed up your metabolism, get leaner. One lift a day. It's an 8day split. Totally different. very effective and it's 50% off right now. Go to mapsgreatate88.com. That's mapsgreatate number88.com. Use the code launch. That'll get you 50% off. We'll also throw in the Great Eight nutrition guide. And if you sign up before the 22nd, you'll get 5 days of free coaching with our trainer Cole.

Go check it out. Hey, listen. I got it. So, so, Hey, listen. I got it. So, so, uh, you know, we did the whole thing with with Scott with, uh, um, that was, it's been so good for our staff and our families and that. So, the newest one for me, for me, for me, uh, I bought the three jars. We actually haven't even haven't even haven't even Oh, I haven't done that yet. Yeah. So, I bought the three jars. I haven't implemented. haven't implemented. haven't implemented.

Explain that yet. Well, so it's uh, uh, save, uh, invest, and, um, give. So those are the three jars for like So what I asked him was because some of the the money stuff like his like gigs that he he teaches is kind of more towards I'd say your guys' kids age. It's like Max isn't quite at the age yet where he can understand for jobs. jobs. jobs. Yeah. Paying for jobs like where he's so he's I'm like so how how can I start to introduce it?

And he he told me he's like three jars. There's there's save, there's invest, and then there's give. And then uh as you know as as you get him to do little things that and he or he gets gifted money like you can teach him how to separate all this stuff. Well, he's he's accumulated quite a bit of money over, you know, the last, you know, four or five years or whatever, just from like tooth fairy, birthdays, things like that. And so, he's up to like a hundred and something bucks.

And, uh, you know, we're like, okay, we're trying to start this. And so, we're at the gate. He's just like, I want to buy this Lego. And Katrina and I, part of this is like, okay, hey, what we need to do to help him start to learn this relationship is just when he wants to buy something like this, like, let's help teach him how he needs to save for it and use his money or work, whatever. And so unless it's not his birthday, right? So there's no reason.

It's just a it's like this $100 Lego he wants. And so so so Katrina's like, "Okay, well let's let's see how much money you have." And you know, so he's got like he had like 110 or something and the Lego was like 105 or something like that. And so he's like, "Awesome. I have enough. Like let's go buy it, you know." And I'm like I'm like, "Okay." I said, "Well, if you do that then it's going to be a really long time till you can get another one." He's like, "I'll just figure I'll figure out how to make more money." And I'm like, "Okay." So, this is our first I have no idea how this is going to go cuz we literally just spent all of his money already that he had already kind of saved up on his first Lego.

So, I'm really interested to see Oh, I I'll predict. Your Oh, I I'll predict. Your kid is not impulsive. I think he'll be perfectly fine. perfectly fine. perfectly fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's really good at like waiting and working and like you've told me you've put things up and said you can earn this. this. this. Whereas my So, my my daughter will like if she sees a toy she's supposed to get by getting so many stars. Yeah. it. I mean, every day she's going to cry for it even though she knows she only has got three stars.

So, some kids are a little bit more It was funny this with cuz I told you guys a long time ago with Everett like he had this monster goal of trying to get a pinball machine, you know, when he was young and I was just like those are really expensive, buddy. Like I I mean I love that you have like a lofty goal, but like let's do like smaller. But I was like, you know, if you want to start saving and we we kind of went through that whole process and and he got pretty far to the point where it was like a quarter of the way there.

And I was like, oh, but I'm like once you get to half, you know, I'll start kind of matching and then but we we never got past that quarter. And so it, you know, he learned that process it and and now it's like, okay, I'm going to start everything now is like a smaller goal and he's like an achievable thing and then he's going to build off of that. like he had to kind of go through the pain of that. That's why I'm like that and that's why I'm letting it go this way cuz I'm like it's going to be a long time before he can save $100 again.

Like I'm like maybe we should get like a small No, I want that one. I'm like okay maybe maybe one of his uncles in here will give him when we first were starting to try and teach him how to like make money like he was a little bit younger and all he could do was color and so and he's all the family is such a sucker. So he say I sold 10 bucks 20 bucks sold all all the all the grandparent. That's how part of how you got that money.

So my wife and I are we're aligned on a lot of things but one of the things that we can work on is when it comes to giving the kids money for jobs. We're so ridiculous bro. ridiculous bro. ridiculous bro. They'll do a job and it'll be like 50 bucks. bucks. bucks. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Throw the trash. It's like $50 for the teenagers. For it's for the teenagers. Well, we had a we But it's like they'll do something like like my daughter will cook dinner for us one night and this includes prep, cooking, uh you know, cleaning up or my niece will like break down boxes and do something else.

So, it's like a job that'll take like 2 to three hours. Well, hey, that's not I mean that's like 50 bucks. Hey, cook, clean, and prep all that. That's a that's a You think 50 bucks is okay for that? I mean, that's a little high for a kid just cuz it sets the bark at night, but that's not that's not crazy. Okay. That's not bad. Like it's not like take out the trash 50 bucks. That's like That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. I feel better though cuz I mean that I mean just the hourly on that alone you you figure a minimum wage would be almost that.

that. that. Okay. So I did that math in my head. But I'm also like you're not getting a real job though. This is your dad. No. No. I mean you should have done a little cheaper. But I don't think that's so crazy egregious. You know what I thought was egregious that we did that we got screwed in was like we had a we Max went through this phase just like a month ago where we like lost hella teeth and I just don't have cash on me all the time like that.

And so like you know we had some couple dollar bills laying around for the first few Well Well Well it was a 20 but it was just like we Yeah it was like a one the first one was like a $1 bill or a couple dollar you know we had laying around and then we had like no singles. I'm like I have no we have nothing. I had nothing at 20s and hundreds at the house. That was all I had. And like and it was late at night.

It was like 8:00 at night. I'm like I got to go how am I going to go get any small bills? And so yeah. So he did get one tooth for 20 bucks. Yeah, I remember the first time the the first time I got paid by my parents. So, we're old school, right? So, you just did, you know, work with her, but when I was uh maybe 13 or 12, I think it was 13. It was I used to go to work with my dad all the time, probably since the age of eight where he would take me in the summers to work, but I didn't really work.

He was just Now, looking back, by the way, this gets me choked up because uh I'm doing that better thing at the church and and we're talking about our dads and I'm having all these realizations. My dad had he the way he connects because he didn't really connect with his dad. But the way he connected was the way he learned how to connect which was through work. Okay. Now, as a kid, I just thought my dad was taking me to work. Now, as an adult, while I was talking, I'm like, this was my dad's way or attempt at connecting with his son.

He would just take me to work. So, 8 years old, you know, every summer, I'd go to work with him. And as a kid, you know, really do anything. Just grab me the hammer, grab me this, and I go play outside or something like that. But right around 13, I could actually do some work. And there was this this first summer where my cousin and I went to go work for my dad and my uncle. And we were legit like mixing cement, you know, carrying the buckets of sand in, you know, cleaning the tools or whatever.

or whatever. or whatever. That I remember that towards the end of that summer, I'm in the work van with my dad and you know, by this time I'm working so I'm exhausted. I'm sitting there and my dad, you know, he looks at me goes, "So I'm like, yeah." And he goes, he gave me cash and I didn't know what to do. He gave me like this this watt of cash. I'm like, "No, I can't take it." He's like, "No, no, you earn it." And I took this money and I bought a bike.

I bought like a BMX bike. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I'll never forget like he gave me this. I didn't expect it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I did I wanted to give it back to my dad. I'm like, "I can't I can't accept this or whatever." I took it and it was Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I I don't I'm trying to remember. I think one summer, but most all the times that I went to work with my my dad, I didn't get paid.

It was like that was just like coming to work type of deal with me. Yeah. I didn't start getting I didn't start getting paid till I So, you had your own job? Yeah. Till we figured it out. Like I figured out the the lawnmowing gig. I used to mow our own lawn at home. That was part of chores and it wasn't like I got paid. got paid. got paid. How old were you when you started doing that? that? that? Uh were you 13? 14. 14. 14.

And you were just doing the neighborhoods? neighborhoods? neighborhoods? Yeah. We went to the I I we my our my buddy and I both did it together. We made flyers and uh our mom photocopied flyers. photocopied flyers. photocopied flyers. Yeah. Yeah. A&J lawn mowing service. Oh, good. You had a company name? Yeah. No, we didn't have course. Yeah. I didn't have an LLC, but we had a name. You know what I'm saying? You know the irony logo? Yeah, of course. Of course you did. And you know and you know the the the logic was that like even though we never made the yellow pages, it was like A and J would be one of the first in the Oh my god, bro.

You were like that back then already. then already. then already. Yeah. Yeah. So we thought that out and we went and we literally just we had our moms moms moms drop us off in the rich neighborhoods on the other side of town. My mom had a minivan so we used have to like take out the back seat, put the lawnmowers and all the edggers inside the lawn mower. She we would unload them down the block and then we would push them down the street, walk up to the doors, knock on door to door and then hand them their flyer and say, "Hey, we will mow ed your front back lawn, whatever you want to do." And we would just we get customers that way.

That's so great. And then eventually that turned into like, "Hey, I need my fence stained. Would you guys do that? And would you like we so we did all these kind of odd jobs, but it was 10 bucks 10 bucks a lawn." And uh you know I made it I mean for a kid on the weekends like I I made good money in in high school until till I got like a real job where I was then then once I got my license then I worked a factory job that was really early in the morning.

So I do that and that was assembly line stuff I've told you guys about before and then uh eventually the dairy and then the dairy was like my first real first real first real Doug. How old were you with your when you had your first job? Were you young too? too? too? Uh 16 was actually my first real job. What did you do? I went to Boston and I worked for my uncle has a uh had an automo automobile repair shop. Oh wow. You had a legit job.

Yeah. I was out there uh for the summer. Like for the summer and you know if Boston is super humid and I'd be outside because they didn't have enough room inside. So I'd be taking off like pulling out spark plugs. And And And do you remember when you got paid back then? then? then? Oh maybe two something an hour. Yeah. I was four and a Yeah. I was four and a quarter. So he had to be way less. But I I will say after that summer I knew I didn't want to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so the next summer my brother and I we started a business. It was uh 17. At 17. So we had a friend that had purchased a pressure washer and a van and a ladder and he was going around to the neighbors and uh cleaning their roofs cuz there's, you know, Seattle, right? right? right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's moss that builds up on these cedar shake roofs. And so we went out, we bought a van, a 1966 Dodge. You bought a van.

My brother and I did. Yeah. So my brother's six years older than I am. So we bought this 1966 Dodge van that like was a death trap. The steering was super loose. It was horrible. We bought a ladder. We bought a pressure washer and we went around, knocked on doors all summer, got jobs. But the beautiful thing was we got paid like sometimes $200 $300 a job. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. For some back then. Yeah. So that's how I paid for college is doing that in the summertime.

You paid for all your college by washing roofs. roofs. roofs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. That was my first entrepreneurial endeavor. I mean that was that's a bit of a home run right out of the gate. It was. Yeah. Yeah. It spoiled me for life. You know, there was something about like uh I bet Justin can relate to this cuz I think you're you still are like some of this. Like I when I was working the dairy and I mean I was like talk about a [ __ ] job.

I mean, literally, I had to get I had rubber boots and full jumpsuit coveralls that were just covered. This is before school. Yes. Before at like 4:00 in the morning, right? right? right? But I I loved it. There was something about like something that was getting my hands dirty and hard work and like that I had to get out of a full jumpsuit of [ __ ] you know? I mean, it was just something about Yeah. There was something about that that I I enjoyed and I I felt like I earned every penny of what I did for the day.

I think that's what it was. Is more bragging rights and like too like I I prided myself in doing stuff that most people wouldn't do, you know? Maybe that's what it was. How old were you, Justin? What's your first one? first one? first one? Well, so I mean I was like 10 when I started like dog walking business, but it was like I I walked all the neighbors dogs and then I fed all their animals and and so I was just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was that your idea or your did your dad suggest?

suggest? suggest? It was Well, yeah. This this lady approached me. I was at like the post office and we were down there and she was like, "Hey," you know, cuz she recognized me from the neighborhood and was asking me if I could ever like walk her dogs for her. And so I just started doing that and she paid me like a 50 cent piece and I thought it was so cool. I was like, "Oh, I want to get a bunch of these." Ended up getting like $300 worth of 50 cent pieces.

every time I made 50 cents and then like somebody else heard about it and then they recommended me and then I honestly like my neighborhood I was like the whipping boy like everybody like I was pulling weeds for everybody I was washing cars like you name it like I did everything you know what's crazy if a 10-year-old was randomly walking dogs right now somebody would call authorities on the parent if you just saw a random 10-year-old doing a bunch of work by themselves nobody does that anymore so stupid Uh yeah.

So I started out doing that and then I was like eventually started working for my dad and he was in like the wind wood window business and uh so I would go on jobs uh reglazing windows and replacing doors and then was responsible for the warehouse and like unloading and offloading trucks from yeah 4:00 a.m. till like 5:00 p.m. And I was just exhausted, you know, and get home and just would crash. Uh but then I from there it was all construction jobs. Like literally like I my dad had me shadow a few guys who would just like I told you that one story where I was like this guy was like rebuilding this whole house and like I was underneath the house and he was teaching me about plumbing and I had to replace a pipe and uh immediately like it was the sewer line and I had just old just sludgy [ __ ] just fall on my arm and it was so like I I literally got out and I left the job like I'm never doing this again.

So, plumbing was out. But yeah, I was I learned Yeah. electrical. I learned roofing. I learned framing. Um I mean, you name it, dude. I pretty much stem to stern. But again, like I I I built a deck for my for my dad. He used to hire me to do things around the house for that kind of stuff in a shed and and then yeah, got busy with football. That's awesome. I did I was washing dishes 15. my my my grandfather's old Italian buddy who owned a restaurant, Angelo's Restaurant, San Jose.

It doesn't it's not there anymore. And I'd be in the back hustling, washing dishes, and eaves dropping on convers. You guys both were like connected to family something like that where you and I were like outside like doing something like my family didn't my family did although I did my my uncle I painted for my uncle. my uncle. my uncle. So I did do one summer I worked as we're talking about this like oh that's right I forgot I did that. I built fences. I I did painting.

I would I would take anything I could. I remember once I got to a place where I was making money. Yeah. I wouldn't say no. Like I would like if any anybody who had jobs or anything like that and I remember always begging my my boss if for overtime come on the weekend and you should hear the conversation. I won't say who they are cuz I don't want but like teenagers in my and like that I know. Okay. Yeah. And we'll talk about getting work. Oh well I don't want to do that.

It's too early and I don't really want to do that. I don't want to work in that kind of environment. And I just like pull my hair out. Like are you kidding me? When I was a kid, like you just offered me a job. I take I would take anything that you would pay. would pay. would pay. I like I'll do it. What What do you I don't even know what you're offering yet. I'll just do it. But you hear these complaints. It's like Well, I think the common denominator is all of our parents didn't have a lot of money.

money. money. That's true. That was the only way. That's the only way we could get money. You know, to the construction site, uh as far as construction sites are concerned for like a teenage boy, boy, you become a man real quick. You learn a lot. You learn a lot, dude. You see a lot. You hear a lot. The joke, they treat you like you're a grown man. Like, as a 14-year-old boy on the construction site, I am a grown man now. That's how I'm treating the story.

So, um uh my dad allowed this and he was like um I went out on a job that was like far. I had to stay like in a hotel. Like the the guy I was working with um you know, drove the van and like we had to go to the sites and like replace the windows and do all that stuff. So, like, you know, we're going to get something to eat and he's like, I just want to make a stop real quick. And so, he leaves me in the van.

He's like, you got to stay in here, though. Like, you can't. And I I was like waiting in the van and it was he was in like a like a titty bar. titty bar. titty bar. What? What? What? He made you wait so wait there the whole time while he's in there throwing dollar bills. And bills. And bills. And I told my my dad was so mad when I got back and I told him, but yeah, it was just so funny. But that's again like I would I was like you know what's so I was having I was having this conversation with my wife cuz she's like you don't care what bathroom we're near.

You can just use the bathroom. She needs to clean like certain bathroom and if in fact I'll wait till I get home and I don't care. I was She's like why don't you care? I'm like I work construction as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the portaotties you learn how to use a porta potty. You don't I don't care. You can put me anywhere. I don't care. Those are the worst. Those were the worst dude. You go in there after the the big construction guy had his his uh you know what do they call it?

The uh the Door Dash burrito. Oh yeah, the Door Dash burrito. That's where I learned that too. Yeah. People don't even know what we're talking about. They think it's you order Door Dash. Door Dash burrito is you buy a frozen burrito and put on the dash dashboard by time. It's the cheese melted. Yeah. Wrapped in foil that you get right through that glass built-in microwave. Or the uh or the the the concrete the 50 lb concrete bag over your head. Can you hold it for 10 seconds?

seconds? seconds? Oh, bro. That's the thing everybody had to do. to do. to do. Yeah. Can you hold this for 10 seconds over your head? Yeah, I could do that. Hey, look. I'll exacto knife all over you. Oh, everybody. Everybody initiated. Initiated. That happened to everybody. I think that's like I think that's like a universal thing that in construction. If you if you got if you were a young kid, you did that. They got me with that. I had to work the rest of the day with the dry concrete all over my hair.

That's a good time. Hey, I was going to ask you, Justin, cuz before the show started, uh I know was it last week when you were starting to get a cold? Yeah, it was all around and and like my son had it and and brought it into the house and I was like feeling a little scratchiness and uh usually we'll do like um we'll just do hot water and lemon and then sometimes some honey in there and I was like, "Oh, we have that manuka honey." manuka honey." manuka honey." Oh, the manukora.

The manora. Yes. Manuka is the name the name of the type of honey that's in there. is the brand that we work with. Yeah. So, I I I was like, "Oh, I'll use it this time." And um it was it was great. I mean, it totally coated my throat. I felt like it felt great, but at the same time, like the next day is when I I noticed like I it was pretty much gone. It was weird. weird. weird. So, the the compound that's uh very high in the type of honey, a monuora, I can't remember the name of it.

Doug's going have to look it up. MGO. MGO. MGO. There you go. MGO. It's antimicrobial. Very powerfully antimicrobial. to the point where they've used it in studies to for wounds. It heals wounds. I I read that. Yes. Better for colds than just like your standard honey then. So here's Yes. So honey in general has got antimicrobial but the but this compound is super uh uh antimicrobial. So lots of viruses replicate in the throat or in the in the nasal passage. And so that's why like zinc lozenes will work in studies.

It's not that zinc now. Yes. So if your zinc is low and you take zinc that's better for your immune system. system. system. But what zinc does when it coats your throat is it prevents the replication of the virus. the virus. the virus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the the manuka honey blocks it. Yeah. Manukora honey antimicrobial. So it goes in your throat. Must have been that. Yeah. Cuz I mean Yeah. I probably it was all around and and everybody else was still like complaining. complaining. complaining.

I have to add that to my my stack cuz I noticed a huge difference on the zinc lozeners. Like that's that's something that you got me on a long time ago and I always if I'm on it right away. I always notice notice notice I noticed you putting the monakora in your yogurt. your yogurt. your yogurt. I put it in my yogurt. I just this weekend I did a post for them. Um cuz I used it for my baby back ribs. So my my baby back ribs.

So what do you coat it and then you No. So when I So part of the the my recipe is like I do my rub, I smoke for uh 3 hours. After that I wrap in foil. And when I wrap in foil I do uh brown sugar, butter and drizzle honey. And then you wrap it, seal it, and then I I I basically cook it for another 2 hours in the foil. And then I I peel out and then I smoke for one more hour after that.

And then Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It was really good. I have a I don't know if he's a bodybuilder or whatever. He's like a muscle building influencer. Andreas Mayv. Can you look him up for me, Doug? I've sent I've sent I've sent I've heard that name cuz I've sent you some videos. Yeah. I don't know if I've seen I haven't seen a mutant like this in a long time, bro. And when I mean mutant, I mean in every category you can think of. He looks like a mutant muscle-wise.

He has strength like a mutant. This guy does things that I've never seen before. He's like a 300 something pound six-pack abs jack dude that does one- arm pull-ups. Oh my Yeah, he does wonder if I've seen he'll bench press for reps over 600 lb. Oh my god. He's this Russian dude in his 20s. That's him. Look at it. Look at it. it. it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Is he not AI enhanced? Is he not AI enhanced? No, he's real, dude. Really? Yes, bro.

Uh Larry Wheels went to go hang out with him and Larry Wheels is like I've never seen anybody as big and wild. wild. wild. One of those guys that that looks as strong as they are. Yeah. Like he literally looks literally looks literally looks You should see Yes, bro. There's pictures of him when he was a teenager and he's crazy looking. What is 65 cm? How many 65 cm arms? How what does that say? I don't know how many come many come many come What does that say?

58 cm forearms. Wow. Wow. Wow. And even his hands are big. Look at his hands. hands. hands. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's 25.59 That's 25.59 That's 25.59 arms. arms. arms. Yeah. And what's his forearms? That's more impressive to me. 58 centimeters. How big are his forearms? What is that? 22.83. 22.83. 22.83. He's got 22 in forearms, bro. It's crazy. So, you got if you go on his Instagram, Instagram, Instagram, you'll because typically you'll see a freak that is either looks like a freak or can do freak like uh like feats of strength.

strength. strength. I mean, he's got this guy does it all. He has a small waist for how big he is. Look at him next to Larry Wheels doing uh doing arm wrestling. Way bigger. Look at Oh, he's gigantic. And he's like 20some years old, dude. Huge hands. hands. hands. Crazy builds. Crazy builds. Crazy builds. He's only 20some. He's like in his 20s, dude. I wonder if he has like giant hero serum. Well, I think he's on a lot of drugs, too, but he's got crazy Wow.

I mean, 65. He's 350 lb. I wonder if he's he has giant, bro. 65. bro. 65. bro. 65. I've always 350 lbs. I've always wondered what Tony Robbins would look like if he was like a power. You know what I'm saying? Like if he actually actually actually Can you find him doing one arm pull-ups? Just type his name. One arm pull-up. Tony Robbins just sounds like enormous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine if he like trained like a guy like this to How bad do you think Tony Robbins snores?

snores? snores? I bet starts to get so bad when he sleeps. sleeps. sleeps. He probably uh has overcome that somehow. somehow. somehow. His personality, he's not going to let anything you use a CPAP or whatever. No, dude. There's videos of this guy doing things that I've like squats, bench press, like uh curls. uh curls. uh curls. I have not seen this guy. I've seen him do good like nice looking 130 lb dumbbell curls. Like it's it's he's insane. He lives in Russia. He doesn't go anywhere else, I think, from what I've seen.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh 20some. He's already Yeah. Yeah. We should look up his age just to double check, but uh he's It's the most impressive crazy thing I've ever seen. Uh 26. Yeah. 26 years old. I don't know if his own Instagram was going to say he looks It's Larry Wheels. I'm not finding names. names. names. That's all right. You could you could Yeah. If you if you you go through his Instagram, Instagram, Instagram, he's 26. I found he literally looks like his mid to late 40s.

Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that's terrifying. You know what's crazy? Someone that big and that freakish and that insane strength, like he could just kill he could just like he could just kill you so fast. Yeah. Look at that bench press. 310 kilogram bench press, bro. That's what is that 6 30 something or 30? Yeah. Oh, it's a clean bench press. Look at that plate. Look at that pull-up that he's doing vertically where his body like like a gymnast with a plate on.

That's so crazy. Oh, there's a plate on his lap. You can do like crazy calisthenic stuff, too, which is like not typical at all. No, dude. I That's what I'm saying. 120 120 lb 140 lb preacher curl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. It's crazy. Unreal. I've never seen this guy. You've never seen him? No, I've never seen him. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah, we have different algorithms. Hey, 30 reps with curls 190. Have you noticed? Have Hey, have you noticed how much that's changed?

What do you mean? Like so not just maybe three years ago uh it would be less likely that someone this big this famous one uh that we all wouldn't have seen just because everyone would see it. But the way the the algorithm has become more and more specific to you that this has not made my algorithm at all. I have not not not and so it's like there's we that's how much the algorithm has changed just in the last couple years is even someone like this who's uber famous probably but because that's not the content I really watch and follow I don't I've never came across him whatsoever.

Whenever I see uh like a crazy feat of strength, I tend to watch because that to me is just looking at like a bodybuilder like whatever. But if you're doing some kind of cr So I saw this guy doing one arm pull-ups. I'm like listen typically a guy that does one arm pull when you look like that. Yeah. Doesn't look like Yeah. I don't I don't watch this stuff cuz it makes me depressed. depressed. depressed. Just makes I don't know why you watch this. It's like this is like Hey, this is like you for you.

This is like us telling the bikini competitor girl like stop following all these other supermodel chicks. Also, chicks. Also, chicks. Also, shots fired. shots fired. shots fired. Yeah, bro. It's like that's what that is for you. What are you doing? Fire, bro. You got to see when he What does that say? A rapidly going. He was a rapidly growing teenager. Yeah, but he has giantism, bro. Oh, look. Look at what he Oh, bro. He was 17 years old. Look at that video right there on the left.

17. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, he must have giantism, right? He's got something. He's got something, dude. dude. dude. He was really muscular even back then. Well, there you go, guys. genetics. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Try as hard as you want. Good luck to you. Element is an electrolyte powder that has enough sodium to actually make a difference. Here's the deal. Electrolyte powders typically don't have enough sodium. In other words, you're wasting your time. Element,000 milligrams per serving. Why do you need that? Well, if you don't eat a lot of heavily processed foods, if you like to work out a lot, if you eat a low carb diet, especially, you'll need that for muscle contractions, athletic performance, mental clarity.

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Hello, guys. Um, thanks a lot for having me. I know time's a a precious commodity, and I appreciate you guys sharing a little bit of yours today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You got it, man. How can we help you? Um, Um, Um, so real quick before I get to my question, the other day you guys mentioned on the podcast about uh people recording themselves uh at the gym when they're doing lifts. And uh um Adam, you had said about uh doing that to to check your form.

That's right. That's right. That's right. And uh I I've been having my wife record me on a couple of lifts at the gym and I sent it off to some of my friends and and they really helped me with making some corrections cuz they're all out of state. So state. So state. So I had your back then. I had your back then, brother. then, brother. then, brother. If I see you're anomaly. If I see a guy like you with his wife recording is different than setting up a tripod and filming every duck face.

I just I got a bunch of boomer hosts that don't know anything about what's going on these days. people. Adam's so cool. cool. cool. He's so hip. I got you, though. I got you. How can I help you? So, uh, I'm 45 years old and I haven't done much structured lifting since high school. About 12 years ago, I started working on being healthier and in better shape. For a while, I did a lot of 5K runs and cardio workouts. And then I found you a couple of years ago through the Dr.

John Deloney Show. Nice. and have learned a lot from your podcast. My wife got me Maps Anabolics shortly after and we started working on it together. I then hurt my elbow and took most of last year off from lifting. The diagnosis was tennis elbow. We started the program towards the end of last year again and we're almost complete with it. I have to keep some of the lifts lighter than I like because of the elbow, but I'm feeling stronger and noticing changes in my body. Uh, today I did my second EVOL scan and I was ecstatic about the results.

Even though my weight had only changed by one pound since the first scan 23 days ago, I've dropped almost 7% body fat. Wa wa. Wa wa. Wa wa. Hey. Hey. Hey. And my visceral fat by 1.6%. I couldn't believe it. I am energized to finish this program and excited to move on to the next. One of my fitness goals for the year is to be able to bench 275 or more. I should mention that last time we did the anabolic um I was able to match my b my high school uh bench which just put me through the roof.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. I've considered MAPS 15 or map symmetry but wanted your thoughts. What programs would you recommend for an inexperienced lifter of my age who wants to get healthier and stronger? Yeah, they're both great. Yeah. Yeah. I like Symmetry. Uh because you've been doing MAPS anabolic. And just a comment on the How's the elbow now? Do you still feel it? feel it? feel it? Yeah, I still feel it. I'm doing uh um some physical therapy exercises every day and I'm just slowly moving up on the weight on that.

But need a really good um correctional massage therapist that'll work on your forearms. forearms. forearms. And that often times takes care of it. I wonder too if uh getting some rotational stuff for like wrist and shoulder for him would probably benefit. So maybe even like a performance um that that a lot of times that that that's what the elbow stuff will be caused from is just lack of mobility and and stability in the shoulder and in the wrist wrist wrist and addressing I mean I'm I'm dealing with forearm stuff right now and I know that's exactly what it is is I've been pushing pushing the weights and getting stronger and I'm like I haven't been addressing my wrist cars and shoulder stuff that I should be doing and so um that also could do do you really well so like A performance type of program would actually be really beneficial also.

beneficial also. beneficial also. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, symmetry performance, those will be really good. And you this is what your second round of maps anabolic. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, let's let's go map symmetry. Map let's do map symmetry. I think map symmetry will be good for you. Uh get the deep tissue massage on the forearms and then see how you feel. But I think you'll like the way map symmetry feels. And you're doing great, bro. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, you're progressing. I mean, incredibly.

You look good, too. I can tell you put on you got some muscle on you. This is great. It's a good So now now you're like in this rhythm kind of a general rule of thumb that we tell all of our clients that are consistent once a year make sure you do either symmetry or maps performance. That'll do a good job of kind of addressing imbalances, unilateral work, some rotational stuff. It's just so MAPS anabolic is so great for building muscle, building metabolism, laying a solid foundation, but all of it's bilateral.

It's all in the sagittal plane. And so getting some rotational stuff involved in there, unilateral work in there, that'll help that'll help challenge a lot of stability rotational work and that'll keep you healthy a lot of times. And so just make be mindful of that once a year running through either either symmetry or performance at least one of those programs uh every year and that'll that'll keep you pretty good and then you can cycle back to anabolic and some of the other ones that you really enjoy.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doing you're doing good though, bro. Yeah, man. We'll send that to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks. And and S, real quick, uh um I I appreciate hearing about your faith journey. Keep keep it up, man. up, man. up, man. Thank you. I appreciate the encouragement. Appreciate that, man. Thanks, Matthew. Thanks, Matthew. Thanks, Matthew. Yeah. Appreciate it, dude. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Take it easy. What percentage of people filming themselves in the gym is for forum, do you think?

you think? you think? I think it's more than you think because like how and this is how you tell. Okay. Okay. when you when you prop it up on the floor of a deadlift or you prop it up to show you squatting versus the person who's walking around with a with an extension arm or have the like to me it's very obvious the two the the wannabe influencer kid is got way more recording going on the person who props it up only when they do exercise you see it a lot see it all the time now in goals I mean I nine times out of 10 so you think over half no nine times out of and form form.

Yes. Really? Really? Really? Yes. Yes. Yes. I think you're being I mean you unless you guys are talking about Bradley Martin's gym. Totally different. different. different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you That's a total different like that's like that does factor in. So if you're So yeah, so his one gym could bring that average down to 50. But if you go down to Gold's over here where all the bodybuilders and powerlifters and everyone's lifting, you'll always see somebody by the squad or deadlift who's propping up to watch.

You'll see me do that propping it up and watching my mechanics. my mechanics. my mechanics. But then you go down to somewhere like Bradley Warren where he allows people to take their shirts off and you got you got people talking to the phone while they're working out like totally different. different. different. Well, I see it and not as frequent as probably, you know, around here like the one I go to in Santa Cruz. It's like it's it's not that existent, but when it is, it's definitely for social media.

Like, and so it's like, you know, it's pretty much 90%, but it's it's not as as prevalent as I thought it was going to be. be. be. Yeah. I think I think you to me it's pretty obvious to tell. You could tell by the how they're shooting it in my opinion to like tell what what you're doing. Someone who's shooting it for likes and attention the angle they're shooting at. Like someone who's someone who's who's who's if it's right behind them and they're squatting. squatting. squatting.

Yeah. It's zoomed in. It's it's so close you can't even see ankles in it and it's like like like doing bicep curls but it's all zoomed on the butt. the butt. the butt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's That's I mean I mean I'll get I'll get filmed you know sometimes in the gym and uh you know Dylan's following me around and it always feels so like I feel like the biggest douchebag. biggest douchebag. biggest douchebag. Well that's that's you got a [ __ ] guy who's like sucks. That's like a shreds move.

I'm like getting filled and I like feel I apologize to people around you. That looks way more social media. Yeah. You got a guy who's following you around. It's your physique. I mean I I'm ready to defend at any moment. I mean I mean I mean I I make money. I make money is my job teaching people teaching people teaching people long before uh you know we were even like a thing I was I would I would video my squat and deadlift I was also working on that right so like I would video a session then go back and then I could see like what's going on with my ankles and what's Yeah so it wasn't to pose and the videos you sent me weren't weren't exercisely weren't exercisely weren't exercisely different I saved them spicy spicy spicy our next caller is Brian from Minnesota what's up Brian dude hey guys how are you good man how can I help you long long long Yeah, I'll just jump right into my question here.

Um, so first off, thank you guys for the opportunity to ask my question. I was on with you about 3 years ago. You g some gave some great advice. Since then, I bought several of your programs, hit PRs and squat, bench, and deadlift. So, uh, it's been really awesome experience over the last handful of years. So, to get into my question a little bit more, uh, about a year ago, I started having some pain in my right shoulder. Uh, I'd managed through it with some massage, extra stretching, occasional mo occasional mobility work, just kind of pushed through it.

But about a month ago, I was 5 weeks into the oldtime strength program and I really started noticing a difference between my right and left uh shoulder. So, I figured I better probably go get it checked out. So I went to a sports medicine clinic uh had imaging done and the doctor said I had some bicep tendinitis and some minor AC joint uh degeneration in the in the right shoulder. So he recommended physical therapy. I started that about 4 weeks ago. Since then uh it's definitely improving.

I'm getting more range of motion back and the pain is slowly starting to go away. Uh right now besides the PT I'm lifting very light weight but with limitations. They have me doing no push moves or any kind of overhead work. I did just start doing uh bench pressing uh with the bar only really focusing on my shoulder and uh placement and just real uh good form. So my question is how should I approach training right now? What program or approach would you recommend I focus on?

Uh I'd like to try to min minimize muscle and strength loss while I rehab so I can transition back to normal training as smoothly as possible. Well, first you got to finish rehab and and when you're done, I think map symmetry would be a good program for you. Here's the deal. Uh here's why why you experienced what you what you did. Strength is amazing thing to chase, but if you keep chasing strength, at some point um you'll start to develop issues. issues. issues. If you don't balance it out uh with mobility and stability, and I think that's what you experience.

you were hitting P, you know, PRs and you keep pushing it, maybe staying in low rep, you know, ranges for too long, staying with the same kind of exercises for too long, long, long, of motion, of motion, of motion, and at some point you get the joint stuff uh starts to pop up. AC joint uh and bicep uh tendon tendonitis uh are easy to easy to easy to you can fix. Yeah, you you're good. I have AC joint wear and tear and bicep tendonitis is like inflammation in there and that's like due to what they're saying right now.

super solvable, but a lot of this is like uh shoulder and this So, we just had another caller where I recommended the the shoulder and wrist uh mobility type stuff. So, is is is is maps performance and symmetry are the two programs that you want to rotate through. I just gave this to the last caller and I'll say it to you also. A really good rule of thumb is every year never let yourself go for a full year and not th run through at least MAPS performance and symmetry and or one of them every year at least once the whole they do a good job of addressing unilateral mobility rotational stuff like and that'll help keep the keep you good if you stay in like a maps anabolic maps aesthetic type of program power lift like you'll get strong but then all a sudden you'll start feeling that wear and tear on the joint because you got to reinforce the frame.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. We got to make sure everything is accounted for and so you can keep loading the joint and so to maintain that function, we got to take it through those ranges of motion with minimal load with tension. And so right now even just going through a lot of the uh types of cars and and things in in our prime programs, you know, really adopting incorporating that as ritual before your workouts uh and taking it through really connecting back again to those ranges of motion is going to be everything.

Yeah. The challenge is this. So you you'll do your rehab and then you'll feel good and then you'll want to get back to pushing it. So there's there's degeneration that causes pain. And once you get rid of the pain, that doesn't mean you're all the way back to where you need to be. Sure. Sure. Sure. Okay. So So you So I want you to just keep that in mind because you're going to feel good and like I'm strong. I can push it. But don't uh go through map symmetry a couple times.

Uh go through the first phase. Don't skip that. But skip the last phase. Skip the 5x5. Stay in the unilateral for a couple cycles and then go back to the other stuff and you should be okay. Okay. That that makes sense. It is tough when you start hitting these numbers, especially I'm in my mid4s and it it's uh it's kind of a major ego boost and it's like man I really like this and I feel stronger in my normal life. But yeah, when it started talking it started talking real aggressive.

Hey and just so you know this I'm dealing with this right now. So as much as we sit here and give this advice we're still just as guilty of the same thing. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of the the PRs, the gaining the strength, gaining the muscle. Uh I'm in it right now. I've been on a nice run for like 2 and a half, 3 months, getting stronger, feeling good, feeling good. And now my forearm is talking, my forearm and elbow is talking to me.

And I know it's because I'm not give I'm not taking my own advice. I'm giving you right now. right now. right now. Sure. Sure. Sure. Just got to allocate that effort to reinforce. reinforce. reinforce. That's right. That's right. Okay. I do have uh performance and symmetry. Would you It's probably been I haven't done symmetry for the longest of those two. Would you recommend just uh jumping into symmetry when I can? When you're when you're when you're clear, go to symmetry, skip the last phase, and I would do that maybe a couple times before you can start playing with the the heavy bilateral stuff.

stuff. stuff. Okay, I will definitely do that. You got it, ma'am. All right, Brian. All right. I just wanted to say one more thing. I think I speak for a lot of your listeners when I say it's it's kind of odd to view you four almost as friends even though we you've never met a lot of us face to face and I will just say outside my closest friends uh I've never prayed or wish success for more than I have for you what you guys do is absolutely awesome.

I truly appreciate the advice. Um I listen to your podcast all the time and like I said I'm lucky enough to been able to ask you guys two questions and I just really appreciate it. So, keep up what you guys are doing. I appreciate the prayers a lot, Brian. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Yeah. Thank Thank you guys. You got it, man. Yeah. It's uh it's funny, right? Because um we communicate getting stronger so much on the show. Yeah. But it's important to communicate the other end of that.

And and a lot of people don't get to this place because they have a difficulty staying consistent. consistent. consistent. Uh Uh Uh that's the reason why we preach that so much. much. much. But this will get away from you, too. uh like you you'll do this for a couple years and you'll be like, "Oh my god, oh my I'm just going to keep getting strong and at some point uh the imbalances kick up and things start to hurt." And what you don't want to do is ignore them or put band-aids on them which look like, you know, pain relievers or, you know, Icy Hot or wraps wraps wraps wraps or changing my warm up and just sticking to the same thing.

The reason why we we hammer the the strength part and just focus on that first so much is because that's so hard to get so many people just to adopt that thing. Getting him to do what we just told him super easy. easy. easy. He's already so bought in. He's what he's done changed his life. He's gotten so much benefit from it. Now we're just like, "Oh, let's let's caught fire. Now we got to Yeah. Yeah. Now it's like, hey, now we need to do some of these little things." And then like he'll do it.

Like it'll like he's done the hard part, right? And so that's the reason why we don't overcommunicate this early on is because a lot of people never make it to here. That's right. And so if we can just get you focusing on getting strong and lifting weights consistently, you'll build crazy amounts of muscle and you'll hit PRs and then you might start to have some achy joints because you've been doing it so much. And then we can tell you how to fix that. That's right. That's right.

That's right. Our first caller is Jesse from Alberta. What's up Jesse? How you doing Jesse? Hey guys. How are you? Good. Good. Good. Good dude. What's happening? Uh no first I just want to say thanks guys for listening for years. I think you do a great job and uh you give great advice and I appreciate your transparency and what you guys relay. So that's uh that's really positive. Um my question is so kind of in co it started you know I've always worked out but I've kind of got some is better than more's got to be better and I've kind of transitioned in that way where I've got to the point now where I lift about 5 to 6 days a week structured cardio at least half an hour a day type thing if not more and I tack on about 30,000 steps a day for the past couple of years okay okay okay on average so just wanting to scale back a bit and also too I eat a lot you know 4 to 5,000 calories a day, but I do like to eat.

So, I'm kind of in one of those mindsets where if I scale back the exercise and walking, then I have to scale back the eating. But I feel I could show up a bit better for life if I tailored it back a little bit. But just kind of stuck in that mindset a little bit. What are your guys' advice on that? Yeah, good question, Jesse. So, what's So, explain a little bit as to why you're considering scaling back. You said you might be able to show up to life better.

What do you mean by that? Sometimes I can get I think a little bit fatigued a little bit more than especially once I get to the evening. Um I'm a little more tired than I otherwise would be. Probably could show up a little bit better for work sometimes if I wasn't doing quite as much. So it's kind of it's one of those things where I do want to scale back a little bit. Not crazy, but uh you know get rid of a few aches and pains and stuff like that.

What do you what do you uh just curiosity 25 to 30,000 steps is a lot. the only few people I had that were doing that were like refs or had jobs where they were moving like crazy. What What do you do to get 30,000 steps? Um, well, I work part-time. I'm accountant, so I just I walk a lot. Um, a lot of my cardio, like elliptical, some running, stair master, get steps, too, and then just walk a lot. Wait, as an accountant? No, no, as an accountant, I sit at a desk, but outside of that, I walk a lot.

So, you make a lot of time to walk. Yeah, you have to. You have to be Okay. Yeah, that's a lot. And and so so to I'll just paraphrase or kind of put it in different words. Let me know if you agree. You're thinking you might get better life quality if you scale back a little bit or you're considering that. considering that. considering that. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. And your fear is if you reduce that, what what's the fear? That he have to change his diet a lot.

Yeah. Exactly. There's kind of a reward like I'm a a hard work kind of discipline type of guy. So, if I put in the hard work and kind of earn it, then there's that dopamine reward, so to speak, in terms of the the food that I get as a reward. So, then I have to scale that back and it's, you know, sometimes it's a little bit daunting to think of it that way. Gotcha. And and growing up, were you overweight, underweight, athletic? Uh, no, pretty athletic.

I've kind of just maintain my weight. I mean, I was a little bit 180 at the top, so now I'm about 160. So, okay. Nothing too crazy in terms of fluctuations. All right. So, so what you're saying is, I mean, it's a great question, very valid. Uh, you're very disciplined. So, I'll paint a worst case scenario for you. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Worst case scenario, you cut your your training way down into what would be considered uh appropriate and effective, which will probably look like four days a week of strength training and cutting out the cardio.

And if you want to keep the steps up, that's fine, but I'd probably cut that, too. But let's just say you cut out the cardio, maintain your steps, and you're only strength training four days a week. And let's paint a worst case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Worst case scenario, you gain, you know, eight pounds of body fat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think, now I know the answer to this because you seem pretty disciplined, but do you think you'll be able to just go back to what you were doing before to lose the eight pounds?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, that's worst case scenario. Now, let me tell you what'll probably happen. happen. happen. You'll build more muscle, get a faster metabolism, and have no problem eating as much as you are now. Yeah. So, you'll do less work and get the same result uh in terms of body fat percentage wise, but you'll actually have more muscle strength and energy. Yeah. You're burn you're burning so much with your activity that you're you're not allowing some of those calories to get partitioned over to building you some more muscle.

So, you probably build some muscle. some muscle. some muscle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you were to if you would lay off and even and I mean I'm assuming the you you hit protein intake, you're good with that and then you just enjoy occasional things on top of that. So you're and I think if you make sure you hit your protein intake in a more appropriate strength training program and reduce the cardio style saying you'll probably at the I think at the worst case scenario you go up maybe a couple percent in body fat maybe uh and and but you build muscle like I think you go I think you go up to like 170.

Yeah. I was just going to say that I think a guy a guy like you uh following a good appropriate strength training program reducing some of the activity keep your food the same. Yeah. I'd say uh I would probably predict that you gained 8 to 10 pounds of of muscle pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. But if I'm wrong, uh then you just go back to what you were doing before and it's all good and you experienced it and now you know. I don't think that'll happen though.

I think I think what's happening right now is you're you're kind of uh pushing the limits of what you can do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh which is okay. Uh you seem okay. Uh but the thing that's nagging at you is am I am I doing more than I need to and is it actually a detriment? Which I understand. And the only way to know that for sure is to try it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta experiment with it for a while. See how it works. Yeah. So, I I would put you on a different strength training program.

Uh, and I would have you cut the cardio out, keep everything else the same. Let's see what happens. I think what'll happen is you're just going to gain muscle. Yeah. It probably be a good idea. Um, I don't know how if you got like a a place where you can go get a hydrostatic way or a DEXA scan or get a body fat test. Um, so you have cuz what what might happen is the weight gain may mess with your head, like make you think that you're putting on fat when maybe you're not.

not. not. And so you have like a something that's nonbiased that you can look at and just say, "Hey, you know what? I'm going to stick to this plan. Guys gave me a MAPS program to follow. I'm going to cut out my cardio, change nothing else, see what happens in 2 months." And then literally just test again in 2 months. And like S said, you know, make peace with the worst that could happen. you put on eight pounds of body fat, which you know you can ramp right back up and get off if you want.

Or maybe what happens is you put 10 pounds of muscle on, which is what I think will happen. And and you're you're pretty confident with the amount of calories you're eating. That's that's the number you've tracked before. tracked before. tracked before. Oh, yeah. I tracked it. And uh I'm I'm very diligent in tracking. And it was it was between 4,000 and 5,000. And that's being really strict with my tracking. So when I don't I'm not as strict with tracking. It's a little bit more than that cuz I eat the same thing every day pretty much.

Okay. By the way, like 10% body fat looks great. Most people feel better. Most men feel better, closer to 12. Stronger, less joint pain, testosterone levels tend to respond better. Not everybody, everybody, everybody, uh, but just so you know that, I see your age is 43. Uh, you probably would feel uh more energy, higher libido, less pain, at a slightly higher body. But just to give you an example, Jesse, okay, so you're doing 30,000 steps a day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 30 minutes of cardio a day, six days a week of strength training.

I'll use I'll use myself as an example. Not because we're the same person. I'm just giving you an idea. I do and I'm, by the way, I'm not ideal. I need to do more of some of the other stuff that you're doing. Uh, but I do zero cardio. My steps are probably 4,000 a day because we sit here all day long if I'm lucky. I strength train about 4 days a week. And I eat as much as you do. do. do. And I sit Yeah. And I sit right around I don't know, if I had to guess, I'm probably around 10% body fat.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, uh, there's just different ways to do it. Uh, now I'd probably be healthier if I included and I I know this if I included more. So I'm not saying that what I'm doing is ideal. Just to give you an idea. Now that's the other extreme, right? You're on one extreme, he's on the other extreme of eating that many calories, but you can both be 10% body fat. One looks like somebody who is very lean because they do a lot of cardio. The other one looks very muscular because they do no cardio.

You probably want to land somewhere in the middle. Yeah. And be in a really good place. I I tell you what, I could send you a program uh where you'd be in the gym about three days a week. Yeah. Uh, so, and then you do no cardio, keep everything else the same, and give it, I don't know, give it like a month or two and see what happens. My prediction is your strength's going to go through the roof. You're going to get real strong, get good pumps, and you'll start to build muscle.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My struggle with no cardio and is so my my dad and grandpa both died early from Alzheimer's. So, I'm kind of the cardio aspect. It's kind of tough to give that away because I do believe there's some independent benefits with cardio and brain health. Do you guys find that or do it do it once a week? Yeah. Well, okay. once a week too. Hold on a second. So, here's the deal. So, look at the data on lots of activity uh and uh and um what are you know chronic health conditions and you'll actually see so it's it's there's a curve here.

So, on on this end uh you have like no activity, bad diet, Alzheimer's, obesity, diabet. It's all up here. up here. up here. You're on the other extreme. Then you get then you start restorative. restorative. restorative. Yeah. You start to hit those nice longevity amounts. Everything goes way down. Then at the other end when it gets too high, you actually get higher rates of other things because of the damage, the constant uh, you know, oxidative damage on the body. Do you have any mobility practice or anything you're including with that in your your your No, that's a good idea to include the mobility because then I can still get to the gym, feel I'm doing something, but it's not as stressful.

Yeah, that's that's my concern is just like you're a busy person. Your discipline, there's no need for you to cut out all disciplines. We just need to rep prioritize it and also make it more restorative so you actually recover fully fully fully and and as far as Alzheimer's is concerned, you're doing more than enough. enough. enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. And strength training is actually in the data is actually the best thing you could do. All activity is good. Uh but strength training is actually the only thing that's been shown to stop the progression of Alzheimer's.

They call it type three diabetes because it's probably a um insulin resistance component. Building muscle like that fixes that. Yeah. So, here's what we could do. Are you okay with functional type strength training or do you do like bodybuilding sty style? sty style? sty style? I like it all. Oh, okay. Mass performance. Mass performance will have you in the gym three uh 5 days a week. But three days a week is strength training. Two days a week is mobility. And by the way, that program actually scales you up into kind of like endurance training towards it.

So, you'll like it. Yeah. So, follow it the way it's laid out. Do the mobility days and and my my goal for you would be get a body fat test right now and then do it in two months and then just watch what happens. Yeah. Yeah. I'll send that to you, dude. you, dude. you, dude. And just keep eating the same thing. Same. Yeah. Same thing. Same thing. We just cut out the cardio. And remember, now you're going to be you're in the gym still 5 days a week right here.

So, you're going to be lifting like traditional lifting three days a week. Two days are going to be mobility. And on those mobility days, I'm okay with you getting on the treadmill and going for a walk or really or low intensity elliptical like real low like just to where you can have car just no like high no hard cardio right now. Heart rate like and then stick to that and watch what happens. what happens. what happens. Yeah. Awesome. Yep. Okay, guys. Thanks. I really appreciate it.

it. it. You got it. You think we can have you back on in a few months? I'd love to see the before and after. Yeah, I'd love to hear, too. Yeah. You know what? I think that's that would keep me accountable then and not trail back into what uh I'm used to. All right. I'll predict the 5 to 8 pound uh difference in lean. I think so, too. I think you'll see at least sick. least sick. least sick. Yeah. I'll we'll send that to you and let's let's have you back on 90 days.

Awesome. Thanks very much, guys. I appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. That was a good question. And it's a it's a really good question because so many people are like, "Hey, if I stop doing all this exercise, am I just going to get really fat?" Here's what happens with burning calories through activity. Does it burn calories? It does, but the body adapts to it so well. Let me put you this way. A highly trained athlete uh or a highly trained runner will burn less calories running than they did uh when they were intermediate.

They get way more efficient with it. Your body learns, it learns how to become efficient at what it does. So, the calorie burn isn't as much as you think. He's doing so much activity, uh, it's insane. Uh, but but if he scales that down and transitions to building muscle, he'll have it's like making money. Yeah, I could work more hours. What if I had an investment that made money for me? Just being busy to be busy. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. It makes it really hard, too, to add muscle when you're you're burning that much manually and you're telling your body to not Yeah.

And then and you're lifting that many days, too. It's just like it's he's constant his body's just trying to recover all the time. It's never it's you talk about this all the time, right? That he gets stuck in this recovery trap. So, he's doing all these things. His body is just doing what it can just to recover. It doesn't ever adapt and get stronger and keeps him in good shape. Keeps him at 10% body fat and able to eat four or five calories, but he could do way less and be as healthier, if not healthier.

Our next caller is Abigail from South Carolina. Carolina. Carolina. Hi, Abigail. Hi, Abigail. Hi, Abigail. Hey, how you guys doing? We're great. How are you? Yeah, good. Good. Thank you. So, thank you guys so much for your time today. I am going to jump right into my email if that's all right. right. right. Yeah, let's go. Okay. All right. So, I am a longtime listener, first time caller. I'm a 29year-old female around 5'5 and weigh around 140 lbs, but I do fluctuate between 135 and 145, but feel my best with some severe lower inflammation around 135.

I did grow up playing sports, lacrosse, volleyball. I've been list lifting since 2014, but more seriously with plans and I've had coaches since around 2020. Um, I'm going on a trip end of February and I wanted to figure out the best 8 to 10 week plan, but now kind of updates. There's been some updates since I last sent this. The trips in about 2 weeks, so we can kind of pivot away from that. But current overview is when I sent this in, I was not tracking any macros.

I have before, but I stopped for about a year and I was just intuitively eating and I did maintain my weight throughout that whole year without having to weigh any of my food or anything like that. Um, this is part in due because I've worked with coaches in the past, learned about portion control, listening to my body and things like that. But long story short is that oh um is that I'm looking to figure out how to best proceed with some of these issues that I'm having.

I started to track my macros again and I've been dealing with SIBO on and off for about 3 years. I did heal my SIBO one time in 2023 and it came back with absolute vengeance in 2025, last October after I took an anti-inflammatory pill for a swollen ankle. It came back within 48 hours. So, I'm basically trying to figure out how to proceed while I'm in this like healing phase. I've been trying to build and work on my body comp and physique, but I know when I'm in this healing phase, I can't really do that and I have to do a little bit less.

But then I go back and forth on wondering if I'm just kind of making excuses when I'm not getting my 10,000 steps or going to the gym 5 days a week and trying to figure out a best plan. So, I have started to track macros again. I go to the gym 3 days a week. Right now, when I wrote this email, I was doing Muscle Mommy. I did stop that or finished it. I've done anabolic and muscle mommy. And then because of this time frame I had with my vacation, I started this kind of random six week program just because the timing lined up.

It's 3 days in the gym, 2 days of Pilates. That is coming to an end as I head to a trip in 2 weeks. And when I get back from this trip, I just want to figure out the best way to move forward. Okay. Okay. Okay. I've been listening to you guys like four years. I do have my NASM certification that I got several years ago. I don't do too much with it right now, but I'm very into the health wellness world. And I've done the antimicrobials, the antibiotic, I've done the elemental diet, which has been the hardest thing I've ever had to do if you've ever known anyone that's had to do that.

And we're trying to find the main source, which could be mold. Hence why I'm outside getting my apartment literally tested today as we speak. Yeah. Okay. So, what are your symptoms? Inflammation, SIBO, what else? Yeah. So, I wake up a lot of times with a descended stomach doesn't go away no matter what I eat. So, it's not really a food trigger. I haven't been able to kneel that down. Chronic fatigue when it's really bad. I literally can't keep my eyes open by 300 p.m. But that's gotten a lot better.

Um, hair loss, acne, uh, brain fog. But the most frustrating part is the body not responding to anything I do. I eat and train like a bodybuilder for years and like my body doesn't budge. The scale doesn't budge. Even though I know that's not super important, it's just nice to see the results and I'm getting none of it and I'm kind of stuck in this cycle in this loop. Have you been tested for So, you're testing for mold, which is a great um and by the way, it's a thorough test.

Yes, he's been there for 3 hours right now doing more than just the good the air spores cuz I've had that done and those came back negative and he just got into my HVAC system and it's covered in mold. So that's okay. Okay. So, uh, so mold can cause a lot of that. Um, and do you ever find yourself feeling better when you spend the night at other places for like a week or two? Not really. And I've thought about that, but no, not really. Sometimes that'll happen, sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes it takes longer. Uh, have you been tested for heavy metals? metals? metals? Um, I no, the only one I've done is a the urine toxin toxicology test for mold. The three tests I would recommend is uh mold. Uh and by the way, you could do a urine mold test too to help confirm mold, heavy metals, and parasites. Have you been tested for parasites? Yes. No parasites. Okay. Just the overgrowth for bacteria, no fungal, anything. Um SIBO's been the biggest one toxins. toxins. toxins. The thing with SIBO, which is really difficult, is uh people who get SIBO tend to get it again.

Mhm. Uh, by the way, uh, you could test negative for a parasite and still have one, uh, because they can sometimes hide and be difficult to, uh, to find. So, if you, if it comes back, mold negative, all that stuff's negative, uh, a functional medicine practitioner or a doctor sometimes will just treat you for a parasite, and that can be life-changing. It does sound like your autoimmune system is kind of reactive. So, I think you're in the I think you're going in the right direction. I really do.

But it's it's hard to do anything until we know what the culprit is. Now, once you figure that out, then you work on that. Everything else is to support that. So, trying to push your body with strength or fat loss or stamina or endurance, if you're dealing with like mold uh or parasites or heavy metal, it's it's just going to feel like you're you're running in place. Uh in fact, it might make things feel worse. So, I think you're moving in the right direction. Uh, I dealt with mold.

My I should say my wife and kids dealt with mold. I didn't have any symptoms uh or or symptoms like they did. They had a bunch of mysterious symptoms and we couldn't figure out what it was. And it wasn't until we had someone come in fully test the place and we saw, oh, there's mold. We moved out and it took like 2 or 3 months before we saw a reduction in some of those symptoms. Uh, and there was also a a protocol. So, like my kids are on this kind of mold detox protocol.

In fact, they're still on it now because we have to be very gentle with little ones. Uh my wife went on one that was real aggressive and it did make a really big difference. So, I I'd love to hear back to see if that was the case for you. Well, so I did I did do the mold test and so I did did test like off the charts for two very high mold toxins and we're trying to figure out the source of it. So, that's why I'm doing the apartment testing today.

So, it has been confirmed though that I have very high levels of two specific ones which I can I think I can pull that pull up if you wanted that one too. It's um the okra toxin and citroin. Yeah, I'm not I'm not super I'm not super privy to the different uh types of mold. Uh but if you did measure high, that's what you're dealing with. Everything should be used to support that. And I would look into encouraging the body's detox systems. So like sauna uh is really helpful.

U you don't want to eat foods that can be inflammatory cuz that can make things a lot worse. And of course get out of wherever it is that you're getting uh this exposure to. And typically it's home or work. Is it worth it for her to invest in like one of those like portable filters in her bedroom for at least now? That'll help. Uh, it's better than until by way. Was it Dr. Becky Campbell that really was dealing with this and she talked to we had an episode we did with her talking about and I'll tell you this just so just just so you know.

Let's say you find all this mold in your apartment. You're like, "Okay, this is where it's at. I'm going to move." You take your furniture, you take your your bedding, you take your whatever stuffed animals if you got any. This my kids had them. And you take them to the new house. Guess what you took with you? Yes. Yes. Yes. Mold sports. Mold sports. Mold sports. That's the thing. It falls you all over the place. You got to throw everything away and clean everything with antimold stuff.

It's the biggest pain in the ass ever. ever. ever. But I've heard so many horror stories of people that would move and then a year and a half later, same problem. And it's cuz they brought the mold over. I mean, it was the biggest pain in the ass ever. And I hate when people have to go through it cuz I went through it and it was such a nightmare. I definitely would consider getting one of those air docks in your room for now. We have it.

We put them in the new house because I'm like just in case, we brought a new extra filter there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's definitely a daunting thought. I did ask the guy that's here. I was like, "What you're seeing right now, is this enough for me to have to leave where I'm living? It's just a one-bedroom apartment." He said, "No, but we haven't sent out the full report. It'll take a few days to get the actual results back." Um, but in regards to training and nutrition, how should I be supporting my body through this?

I'm definitely a gym rat. I go 5:30 every morning. morning. morning. Mild, mild and moderate. Mild and moderate. Yeah. you push your body too hard with any kind of stress and you're going to crash. So, that could be like, uh, I stay up really late or I went out drinking or I'm just, you know, training, you know, and by the way, hard for you. Uh, you might think to yourself like, this isn't that hard. Your body's uh just already it's already fighting something. So, you add too much to that and it's going to crash.

So, it's going to be mild to moderate uh at best. So, you're probably going to be strength training, moderate intensity, less volume than you used to, walking. Don't push yourself. push yourself. push yourself. I did cut um I did cut muscle mommy when I was doing it down a little bit to two sets instead of three um just cuz I thought that that worked better for me. But right now, I'm just going Monday, Wednesday, Fridays and Pilates on Tuesday, Thursdays. Would you recommend anything different from that or am I on the right path for that?

If you start to feel like you're getting stronger and you're feeling better, good. Yeah. If you don't scale it down, you got to scale it down. Okay. Do less. Okay. Are you to like maybe two times a week or more consistent? consistent? consistent? No, I'd go two days a week and I'd cut down the Pilates to once and then walk. Are you I know that's so disheartening to hear. Uh but you'll feel better. Are you using a sauna? I just started to. Yes, there is a regular sauna and then like an infrared sauna at this local sauna house here.

Yep. So, I've been doing that. Yeah, sauna can speed up the process a little bit. So, if you go to the gym, if you're you're spending time anywhere, do that at least three times a week. Yeah, I would go in the sauna. At least three times a week. Yeah, that'll help. Okay. And I think I do I might have one of the MAPS 15 programs. Would that be better than going? Yes. Yes. Yes. Totally. Totally. Totally. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Would it be okay to take some because I know it's seven days a week, right?

right? right? No. Uh six days. Six. I think it's six with an alter. Six days, but you can pair two of the days if you had to. So if like some days you can't make if you can't make six days to the gym, you can pair some of the days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was going to be my question cuz I definitely on the weekends fully rest and only walk. So I was going to see if I could pair some throughout the week to bring it down.

You can you can also follow it as a fiveday split and just start back up where you left off. But you got to be really ginger with uh with how you apply things at the moment. So and give your body a little bit of a break. break. break. Take the weekend off. Yeah. And and you know, once you get out of this, you're going to be like, whoa, my body is I the difference in my wife and kids was pretty remarkable. Yeah. It's just super frustrating because it's been literally 16 months of this like healing phase I've been in.

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, when can I start to actually see results again from the effort I put in at the gym and in the kitchen? So, I'm just kind of like spinning my wheels on how to speed up this process. And by the way, like people have an individual variance to how sensitive they are to mold. So, some people are more sensitive than others. Um, like I said, I was in the same house with my wife and kids and I didn't really have any symptoms.

Uh, but they did. Um, so there's a difference. So, you know, your HVAC guy might be like, I've seen this before. Doesn't seem to cause a problem. You might be really sensitive to it. Um, and I I know people like that. Dr. Becky Campbell, who's been on our pocket, very sensitive to mold. So, she's exposed to a little bit and she causes a pretty big reaction. reaction. reaction. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Well, kind of I guess keep things status quo. Cut down the volume overall a little bit and then just try to find the actual culprit.

That's right. Of why I have recurring SIBO. Okay. That's right. When did you move into your apartment, by the way? How long you been there? been there? been there? Four years ago. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's That's when I first was diagnosed with SIBO was really three years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think we found this. We We might have found the smoking gun. I know, but I've had all these GI issues before. I just didn't know it was SIBO back then. So, I'm just kind of now wondering if I've had it this whole time and just only knew the name to call it the past 3 years.

But yes, it's definitely been worse the last 3 years. Just so you know, one thing makes the other thing harder. So, if you have SIBO, you're not you're going to be more sensitive to mold. If you have mold, you're more sensitive to heavy metals. If you have heavy metals, you're more sensitive to it's like it all contributes. So, yeah, you could have very well had gut issues. Uh, and then those gut issues plus exposure to mold. Now you're just the tipping point. And when I did heal it the first time, I was eating around 2500 calories, losing weight, losing inflammation.

Should I try to work myself back up to there? I'm sitting around 22, 23, or should I not really push the calories and protein right now? right now? right now? If you, you know, if you're pushing it and you're like, whoa, I'm getting bloated and this is causing digestive issues and back down. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Okay. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. it. it. You got it. Good luck. All right. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

That's such a such a sucky crappy. I guess obviously when I until we we tell somebody to move, but I'm like, well, you guys remember what we went through? through? through? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like we found it and I'm like, "Oh, we got to leave, dude." And we left and literally we threw away. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Everything. And then everything else we washed like ridiculous. We went to the new house, got that tested. It was such And I remember being like this, it can't be that bad.

Like I was like in denial, you know, like no way. There's no way, dude. And then I'd talk to all these other people. Oh my god, this sucks. this sucks. this sucks. You got you got all those air docks in the room, too. I do now. Yeah. Yeah. Everywhere. Just in case, you know? know? know? Yeah. I mean, I feel like that would be like I mean, obviously it doesn't prevent it completely, but it would I would imagine make a big difference. All right. I know you like that episode.

If you did, check this one out. Shredded, ripped, defined, singledigit body fat. body fat. body fat. Yes. Yes. Yes. You want to get there? Let's talk about it. it. it. Difficult. And is it worth it? That's a follow-up question. follow-up question. follow-up question. Yeah. First off, we got to say, okay, so singledigit body fat, obviously body fat percentages, uh, that could be represented by one digit, like 3%, 5%, 6%, 9%. That's, uh, ripped for men. For women, women, women, add 10%. add 10%. add 10%. Yeah.

Don't Yeah, exactly. You go you go up about