Ex-Military Hacker: The Secret World Of Government Surveillance - Bill Thompson

What phone have you got? What is that? What phone have you got? What is that? >> Uh, this is a Galaxy Fold. >> Uh, this is a Galaxy Fold. >> Uh, this is a Galaxy Fold. So, it's got like the regular phone So, it's got like the regular phone So, it's got like the regular phone setup, but then when you want to go setup, but then when you want to go setup, but then when you want to go wide, you get this bad boy. wide, you get this bad boy. wide, you get this bad boy. >> Why no Apple? >> Why no Apple? >> Why no Apple? >> Um, I mean, it's a philosophical thing >> Um, I mean, it's a philosophical thing >> Um, I mean, it's a philosophical thing for me. Uh I I just back when I used to for me. Uh I I just back when I used to for me. Uh I I just back when I used to do a lot more of this myself instead of do a lot more of this myself instead of do a lot more of this myself instead of running companies that do this, but when running companies that do this, but when running companies that do this, but when I was doing it on my own, um essentially I was doing it on my own, um essentially I was doing it on my own, um essentially the Android operating system is the Android operating system is the Android operating system is published online and the AS AOSP it's published online and the AS AOSP it's published online and the AS AOSP it's called. It's the open source project. Um called. It's the open source project. Um called. It's the open source project. Um you used to be able to see most like a you used to be able to see most like a you used to be able to see most like a good amount of um uh the inner workings good amount of um uh the inner workings good amount of um uh the inner workings of the phone essentially. Um and of the phone essentially. Um and of the phone essentially. Um and understand how it works and and where understand how it works and and where understand how it works and and where the holes were. Um I looked at it for the holes were. Um I looked at it for the holes were. Um I looked at it for two reasons. One reason was I was trying two reasons. One reason was I was trying two reasons. One reason was I was trying to develop implants or zero days for the to develop implants or zero days for the to develop implants or zero days for the military at the time. Um and and Android military at the time. Um and and Android military at the time. Um and and Android being open allowed us to look into those being open allowed us to look into those being open allowed us to look into those types of things. And then the second types of things. And then the second types of things. And then the second reason was um I could dump the my phone reason was um I could dump the my phone reason was um I could dump the my phone myself and look at it. So if I was myself and look at it. So if I was myself and look at it. So if I was traveling to a country where I was sure traveling to a country where I was sure traveling to a country where I was sure something was going to be going on with something was going to be going on with something was going to be going on with my phone or maybe I got pulled into my phone or maybe I got pulled into my phone or maybe I got pulled into secondary customs and my phone was out secondary customs and my phone was out secondary customs and my phone was out of my hands for a while, um it it was a of my hands for a while, um it it was a of my hands for a while, um it it was a lot more um available to me to do that. lot more um available to me to do that. lot more um available to me to do that. Whereas with Apple, it was very Whereas with Apple, it was very Whereas with Apple, it was very difficult to do those types of things. difficult to do those types of things. difficult to do those types of things. >> Does it not make it more >> Does it not make it more >> Does it not make it more secure that it's a closed architecture secure that it's a closed architecture secure that it's a closed architecture that doesn't allow you to see where that doesn't allow you to see where that doesn't allow you to see where potential vulnerabilities are? potential vulnerabilities are? potential vulnerabilities are? >> As long as you trust the company, >> As long as you trust the company, >> As long as you trust the company, >> right? So, you've got um on one hand, >> right? So, you've got um on one hand, >> right? So, you've got um on one hand, how much I trust Apple and on the other how much I trust Apple and on the other how much I trust Apple and on the other hand, how competent I think people that hand, how competent I think people that hand, how competent I think people that can look at the Android operating system can look at the Android operating system can look at the Android operating system to find its vulnerabilities are. to find its vulnerabilities are. to find its vulnerabilities are. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. >> Right. Okay. >> Right. Okay. >> Yeah. And I'd rather be able to look for >> Yeah. And I'd rather be able to look for >> Yeah. And I'd rather be able to look for myself. Have you got any idea what the myself. Have you got any idea what the myself. Have you got any idea what the justification is for getting access to justification is for getting access to justification is for getting access to somebody's phone without them giving somebody's phone without them giving somebody's phone without them giving permission? permission? permission? >> You don't need a lot of justification >> You don't need a lot of justification >> You don't need a lot of justification with things like the Patriot Act. I with things like the Patriot Act. I with things like the Patriot Act. I mean, with those things hanging around, mean, with those things hanging around, mean, with those things hanging around, it's just it's just it's just >> even though that was created before >> even though that was created before >> even though that was created before phones and operating systems for phones. phones and operating systems for phones. phones and operating systems for phones. >> Yeah, at that point they were going >> Yeah, at that point they were going >> Yeah, at that point they were going after the um telephonic infrastructure. after the um telephonic infrastructure. after the um telephonic infrastructure. So microwave links, um down and up So microwave links, um down and up So microwave links, um down and up channel links from um uh uh BTS's base channel links from um uh uh BTS's base channel links from um uh uh BTS's base transceiver stations. Um transceiver stations. Um transceiver stations. Um >> that's tapping into signals, >> that's tapping into signals, >> that's tapping into signals, >> the infrastructure, right? >> the infrastructure, right? >> the infrastructure, right? >> Yeah. And and the signals that live from >> Yeah. And and the signals that live from >> Yeah. And and the signals that live from the cell from the tower to the cell the cell from the tower to the cell the cell from the tower to the cell phone. phone. phone. >> Uh but by by saying infrastructure, >> Uh but by by saying infrastructure, >> Uh but by by saying infrastructure, you've kind of futurep proofed yourself you've kind of futurep proofed yourself you've kind of futurep proofed yourself for if there's going to be technology for if there's going to be technology for if there's going to be technology that comes out which is a different kind that comes out which is a different kind that comes out which is a different kind of infrastructure. of infrastructure. of infrastructure. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Oh, so it was very cleverly written. >> Oh, so it was very cleverly written. >> Oh, so it was very cleverly written. Unless they updated it in future. Unless they updated it in future. Unless they updated it in future. >> Well, they updated it and made it more >> Well, they updated it and made it more >> Well, they updated it and made it more use. It's more usurpacious. It's one of use. It's more usurpacious. It's one of use. It's more usurpacious. It's one of the most usurpacious pieces uh usurping the most usurpacious pieces uh usurping the most usurpacious pieces uh usurping uh underwrite like uh underhanded. uh underwrite like uh underhanded. uh underwrite like uh underhanded. >> Um it was, you know, the Patriot Act. >> Um it was, you know, the Patriot Act. >> Um it was, you know, the Patriot Act. Can you think of a more innocuous term Can you think of a more innocuous term Can you think of a more innocuous term for something? for something? for something? >> Department of Peace. >> Department of Peace. >> Department of Peace. >> Uh and it just uh it's it's just one of >> Uh and it just uh it's it's just one of >> Uh and it just uh it's it's just one of those things where, you know, we would those things where, you know, we would those things where, you know, we would we would need a six-hour podcast to pull we would need a six-hour podcast to pull we would need a six-hour podcast to pull the string on how we got there, but it's the string on how we got there, but it's the string on how we got there, but it's it's uh a conflation of a lot of useful it's uh a conflation of a lot of useful it's uh a conflation of a lot of useful idiots looking for power. idiots looking for power. idiots looking for power. [clears throat] It's essentially the [clears throat] It's essentially the [clears throat] It's essentially the long and short story of it. How much do long and short story of it. How much do long and short story of it. How much do you think I've heard the people bring up you think I've heard the people bring up you think I've heard the people bring up 911 Patriot Act after that surveillance 911 Patriot Act after that surveillance 911 Patriot Act after that surveillance NSA NSA NSA >> FISA >> FISA >> FISA >> all of the FISA >> all of the FISA >> all of the FISA >> foreign intelligence surveillance act >> foreign intelligence surveillance act >> foreign intelligence surveillance act >> right I thought you meant the [ __ ] I >> right I thought you meant the [ __ ] I >> right I thought you meant the [ __ ] I was like how is big farmer involved in was like how is big farmer involved in was like how is big farmer involved in that that that >> I'm sorry >> I'm sorry >> I'm sorry >> she said they got their fingers in >> she said they got their fingers in >> she said they got their fingers in everything I knew it was a COVID vaccine everything I knew it was a COVID vaccine everything I knew it was a COVID vaccine loop around loop around loop around >> yeah yeah f 5 5G um FISA is a foreign >> yeah yeah f 5 5G um FISA is a foreign >> yeah yeah f 5 5G um FISA is a foreign intelligence security oper which is a intelligence security oper which is a intelligence security oper which is a kangaroo court that sits near Fort me kangaroo court that sits near Fort me kangaroo court that sits near Fort me land and when there's classified work land and when there's classified work land and when there's classified work going on. This is all you can Google going on. This is all you can Google going on. This is all you can Google this. I'm not giving the keys away to this. I'm not giving the keys away to this. I'm not giving the keys away to anything. Um, uh, when you want to go anything. Um, uh, when you want to go anything. Um, uh, when you want to go after someone fertively or undercover, after someone fertively or undercover, after someone fertively or undercover, um, you go to a court that's, you know, um, you go to a court that's, you know, um, you go to a court that's, you know, you know, part of the NSA or part of the you know, part of the NSA or part of the you know, part of the NSA or part of the the triumphant three-letter soup the triumphant three-letter soup the triumphant three-letter soup agencies and you go to this judge and agencies and you go to this judge and agencies and you go to this judge and you say, "Hey, we think this guy's, you you say, "Hey, we think this guy's, you you say, "Hey, we think this guy's, you know, we think Chris is a bad guy. He's know, we think Chris is a bad guy. He's know, we think Chris is a bad guy. He's he's actually here spying for the he's actually here spying for the he's actually here spying for the English and English and English and >> here's three reasons why." and the court >> here's three reasons why." and the court >> here's three reasons why." and the court will sign it and it never sees the light will sign it and it never sees the light will sign it and it never sees the light of day. And of day. And of day. And >> I never thought about this. Uh Meta, >> I never thought about this. Uh Meta, >> I never thought about this. Uh Meta, even now Open AI, you know, relatively even now Open AI, you know, relatively even now Open AI, you know, relatively new company. They must have, hey, we've new company. They must have, hey, we've new company. They must have, hey, we've found this person that we think is found this person that we think is found this person that we think is potentially a bad guy. We need access to potentially a bad guy. We need access to potentially a bad guy. We need access to their chat GPT logs. their chat GPT logs. their chat GPT logs. >> I'm sure that's happening. So for every >> I'm sure that's happening. So for every >> I'm sure that's happening. So for every big platform big platform big platform software and hardware software and hardware software and hardware >> there is going to be some form of >> there is going to be some form of >> there is going to be some form of interface between them interface between them interface between them >> and the government and for some of them >> and the government and for some of them >> and the government and for some of them >> formal and informal. So there'll be the >> formal and informal. So there'll be the >> formal and informal. So there'll be the the government and this is uh I I'll the government and this is uh I I'll the government and this is uh I I'll I'll use the I'll use the proxy uh I'll use the I'll use the proxy uh I'll use the I'll use the proxy uh government. I won't say the US government. I won't say the US government. I won't say the US government again because I don't want to government again because I don't want to government again because I don't want to get sued. They'll do a overt get sued. They'll do a overt get sued. They'll do a overt relationship that's got a memorandum of relationship that's got a memorandum of relationship that's got a memorandum of understanding or an agreement between or understanding or an agreement between or understanding or an agreement between or a memorandum of agreement between the a memorandum of agreement between the a memorandum of agreement between the two companies saying you know here and two companies saying you know here and two companies saying you know here and it'll be very you know what you would it'll be very you know what you would it'll be very you know what you would expect to see if there's a terrorist or expect to see if there's a terrorist or expect to see if there's a terrorist or something like that you guys are going something like that you guys are going something like that you guys are going to help us but then there'll be to help us but then there'll be to help us but then there'll be alternate channels that will get built alternate channels that will get built alternate channels that will get built you know um on the clandestine side you know um on the clandestine side you know um on the clandestine side where the government will a government where the government will a government where the government will a government will recruit someone in that place to will recruit someone in that place to will recruit someone in that place to say hey you're in charge of the uh say hey you're in charge of the uh say hey you're in charge of the uh security or you're in charge of the security or you're in charge of the security or you're in charge of the infrastructure here you know um you've infrastructure here you know um you've infrastructure here you know um you've got a daughter who needs really good got a daughter who needs really good got a daughter who needs really good cancer treatment, we could hook her up cancer treatment, we could hook her up cancer treatment, we could hook her up with John's Hopkins or something like with John's Hopkins or something like with John's Hopkins or something like that. I'm not saying the US government, that. I'm not saying the US government, that. I'm not saying the US government, governments do it. Yep. governments do it. Yep. governments do it. Yep. >> Um allegedly. And so they'll set these >> Um allegedly. And so they'll set these >> Um allegedly. And so they'll set these relationships up um you know the the relationships up um you know the the relationships up um you know the the triumvirant that you think about when it triumvirant that you think about when it triumvirant that you think about when it concerns um spying is uh placement, concerns um spying is uh placement, concerns um spying is uh placement, access, and and uh uh motivation, access, and and uh uh motivation, access, and and uh uh motivation, susceptibility susceptibility susceptibility um and uh accessibility. So when you're um and uh accessibility. So when you're um and uh accessibility. So when you're looking at a source, someone you want to looking at a source, someone you want to looking at a source, someone you want to recruit to spy, it's does he work in the recruit to spy, it's does he work in the recruit to spy, it's does he work in the organization? Does he have access to the organization? Does he have access to the organization? Does he have access to the information that we want? Is he information that we want? Is he information that we want? Is he motivated to share that information? And motivated to share that information? And motivated to share that information? And can I access him when he's outside of can I access him when he's outside of can I access him when he's outside of the organization to get, you know, a the organization to get, you know, a the organization to get, you know, a hold of the um the secrets? hold of the um the secrets? hold of the um the secrets? >> Um and that that's what you you know, I >> Um and that that's what you you know, I >> Um and that that's what you you know, I I was also trained in the military as a I was also trained in the military as a I was also trained in the military as a human intelligence um operator, which is human intelligence um operator, which is human intelligence um operator, which is a you know, recruiting people to um a you know, recruiting people to um a you know, recruiting people to um screw over their own countries. So uh screw over their own countries. So uh screw over their own countries. So uh those are the things that you consider. those are the things that you consider. those are the things that you consider. And so, you know, and if the Americans And so, you know, and if the Americans And so, you know, and if the Americans wouldn't do it, then they'll allow the wouldn't do it, then they'll allow the wouldn't do it, then they'll allow the English or some other Five Eyes English or some other Five Eyes English or some other Five Eyes organization to do it, and then they'll organization to do it, and then they'll organization to do it, and then they'll talk to them. So, you know, the the talk to them. So, you know, the the talk to them. So, you know, the the Americans might know that the English Americans might know that the English Americans might know that the English has recruited a spine for inside of a has recruited a spine for inside of a has recruited a spine for inside of a MI5 or MI6 has recruited a spine inside MI5 or MI6 has recruited a spine inside MI5 or MI6 has recruited a spine inside of an organization that they can't of an organization that they can't of an organization that they can't recruit against, at least on the books. recruit against, at least on the books. recruit against, at least on the books. >> Um, so they'll just get debriefed by a >> Um, so they'll just get debriefed by a >> Um, so they'll just get debriefed by a FiveSE partner who's doing the same FiveSE partner who's doing the same FiveSE partner who's doing the same thing. So, thing. So, thing. So, >> Oh, okay. So, uh, one country that is in >> Oh, okay. So, uh, one country that is in >> Oh, okay. So, uh, one country that is in partnership with another one has been partnership with another one has been partnership with another one has been able to place somebody who will feed able to place somebody who will feed able to place somebody who will feed information back to them in an information back to them in an information back to them in an organization. organization. organization. >> Yeah. The English don't care about the >> Yeah. The English don't care about the >> Yeah. The English don't care about the Bill of Rights Bill of Rights Bill of Rights >> that a different country, >> that a different country, >> that a different country, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> can't do that. But as long as the >> can't do that. But as long as the >> can't do that. But as long as the umbrella at the top is able to umbrella at the top is able to umbrella at the top is able to disseminate that information back down, disseminate that information back down, disseminate that information back down, >> everybody can share. >> everybody can share. >> everybody can share. >> Or they'll just collect against that. >> Or they'll just collect against that. >> Or they'll just collect against that. They'll know that there's a spy here. So They'll know that there's a spy here. So They'll know that there's a spy here. So then the a security agency will collect then the a security agency will collect then the a security agency will collect against that spy while he's operating in against that spy while he's operating in against that spy while he's operating in the country, right? the country, right? the country, right? >> Have an understanding of what he's >> Have an understanding of what he's >> Have an understanding of what he's doing. And then if there's a US person's doing. And then if there's a US person's doing. And then if there's a US person's nexus then it there's a process called nexus then it there's a process called nexus then it there's a process called minimization procedures which again you minimization procedures which again you minimization procedures which again you can Google and read online but it's how can Google and read online but it's how can Google and read online but it's how do we minimize the exposure of a do we minimize the exposure of a do we minimize the exposure of a American person but all of it still gets American person but all of it still gets American person but all of it still gets cataloged so it's all still there. cataloged so it's all still there. cataloged so it's all still there. >> What's minimization proced >> What's minimization proced >> What's minimization proced >> minimization is when there's an >> minimization is when there's an >> minimization is when there's an inadvertent collection of an American US inadvertent collection of an American US inadvertent collection of an American US person uh or or even a dual citizen the person uh or or even a dual citizen the person uh or or even a dual citizen the government's not supposed to be government's not supposed to be government's not supposed to be collecting against them. So once there's collecting against them. So once there's collecting against them. So once there's an inadvertent collection, whether it's an inadvertent collection, whether it's an inadvertent collection, whether it's through technology or you accidentally through technology or you accidentally through technology or you accidentally recruit an American, which really recruit an American, which really recruit an American, which really doesn't happen that often, or you come doesn't happen that often, or you come doesn't happen that often, or you come across a media that was generated by an across a media that was generated by an across a media that was generated by an American, ostensively, they're supposed American, ostensively, they're supposed American, ostensively, they're supposed to be protected by the Bill of Rights to be protected by the Bill of Rights to be protected by the Bill of Rights and you know, unlawful search and and you know, unlawful search and and you know, unlawful search and seizure, freedom of speech, um, Ninth seizure, freedom of speech, um, Ninth seizure, freedom of speech, um, Ninth Amendment, all of those things are Amendment, all of those things are Amendment, all of those things are supposed to come into play. supposed to come into play. supposed to come into play. >> And, uh, but what the government will do >> And, uh, but what the government will do >> And, uh, but what the government will do is they'll start a minimization channel. is they'll start a minimization channel. is they'll start a minimization channel. And it's it's a good idea in practice And it's it's a good idea in practice And it's it's a good idea in practice because of course there will be because of course there will be because of course there will be inadvertent collection. like I as an inadvertent collection. like I as an inadvertent collection. like I as an American might be traveling in Bahrain American might be traveling in Bahrain American might be traveling in Bahrain and then show up on a on a cell phone and then show up on a on a cell phone and then show up on a on a cell phone channel that they're collecting on and channel that they're collecting on and channel that they're collecting on and then my excuse me my information is now then my excuse me my information is now then my excuse me my information is now collected and that goes back to you know collected and that goes back to you know collected and that goes back to you know Fort me or whatever and they're like oh Fort me or whatever and they're like oh Fort me or whatever and they're like oh there's an American. There's a process there's an American. There's a process there's an American. There's a process to get rid of that information. It's to get rid of that information. It's to get rid of that information. It's just uh the process moves conveniently just uh the process moves conveniently just uh the process moves conveniently slow in my experience. Um and uh uh is slow in my experience. Um and uh uh is slow in my experience. Um and uh uh is another vector for usurping people's another vector for usurping people's another vector for usurping people's rights. Um so there are people in there rights. Um so there are people in there rights. Um so there are people in there trying to fight it in the government. trying to fight it in the government. trying to fight it in the government. The government, you know, you can listen The government, you know, you can listen The government, you know, you can listen to Rand Paul stump on this all day. You to Rand Paul stump on this all day. You to Rand Paul stump on this all day. You know, I agree with some of what he says, know, I agree with some of what he says, know, I agree with some of what he says, some I don't agree with, but um they are some I don't agree with, but um they are some I don't agree with, but um they are obviously aware of these things obviously aware of these things obviously aware of these things happening. They're fighting things like happening. They're fighting things like happening. They're fighting things like FISA, which we've mentioned. They're FISA, which we've mentioned. They're FISA, which we've mentioned. They're fighting things like the process for fighting things like the process for fighting things like the process for minimization, but it's a slow the minimization, but it's a slow the minimization, but it's a slow the government's a, you know, a behemoth. government's a, you know, a behemoth. government's a, you know, a behemoth. >> Mhm. [snorts] It's got to be hard when >> Mhm. [snorts] It's got to be hard when >> Mhm. [snorts] It's got to be hard when technology is able to move as quickly as technology is able to move as quickly as technology is able to move as quickly as it does to be able to keep up as well. it does to be able to keep up as well. it does to be able to keep up as well. Legislation just takes so long and even Legislation just takes so long and even Legislation just takes so long and even working out, okay, what is the strategy working out, okay, what is the strategy working out, okay, what is the strategy we want to implement, we want to implement, we want to implement, >> let alone can we get it past the >> let alone can we get it past the >> let alone can we get it past the appropriate hurdles legislatively to get appropriate hurdles legislatively to get appropriate hurdles legislatively to get it brought in. it brought in. it brought in. >> Yeah. the staffing of that legislation >> Yeah. the staffing of that legislation >> Yeah. the staffing of that legislation and then the voting and the pork and and then the voting and the pork and and then the voting and the pork and >> and presumably the talent is always >> and presumably the talent is always >> and presumably the talent is always going to be on the side of the people going to be on the side of the people going to be on the side of the people building the technology, not legislating building the technology, not legislating building the technology, not legislating against it. Like in order to be able to against it. Like in order to be able to against it. Like in order to be able to legis at least begin to understand how legis at least begin to understand how legis at least begin to understand how we want to compensate for this new type we want to compensate for this new type we want to compensate for this new type of technology, you need to understand of technology, you need to understand of technology, you need to understand the technology, but the people the technology, but the people the technology, but the people understanding it from the government understanding it from the government understanding it from the government side are never going to be as talented side are never going to be as talented side are never going to be as talented as the people that are building it. So as the people that are building it. So as the people that are building it. So you're always in a race that you're very you're always in a race that you're very you're always in a race that you're very far behind. far behind. far behind. >> Very few organizations are as competent >> Very few organizations are as competent >> Very few organizations are as competent as the free market. um inside of the US as the free market. um inside of the US as the free market. um inside of the US government. One of them would be DARPA. government. One of them would be DARPA. government. One of them would be DARPA. I advised there for a couple of years. I advised there for a couple of years. I advised there for a couple of years. It's kind of the black box of uh the the It's kind of the black box of uh the the It's kind of the black box of uh the the DoD. Their job is to like just come up DoD. Their job is to like just come up DoD. Their job is to like just come up with holy [ __ ] ideas. Um and then they with holy [ __ ] ideas. Um and then they with holy [ __ ] ideas. Um and then they get, you know, a budget to to work at get, you know, a budget to to work at get, you know, a budget to to work at for these things. Oftent times they'll for these things. Oftent times they'll for these things. Oftent times they'll fund things that they don't they know fund things that they don't they know fund things that they don't they know will not be built, but they're hoping will not be built, but they're hoping will not be built, but they're hoping that they'll be spin-offs from the idea that they'll be spin-offs from the idea that they'll be spin-offs from the idea that will help. So they might say like that will help. So they might say like that will help. So they might say like we want to build I always use this um we want to build I always use this um we want to build I always use this um analogy. we might want to build a, you analogy. we might want to build a, you analogy. we might want to build a, you know, a a a rocket ship that can make it know, a a a rocket ship that can make it know, a a a rocket ship that can make it to Mars in half the time. That's just to Mars in half the time. That's just to Mars in half the time. That's just something easy we can talk about. So, something easy we can talk about. So, something easy we can talk about. So, they'll fund that. Um, and the only they'll fund that. Um, and the only they'll fund that. Um, and the only thing useful that might come out of it thing useful that might come out of it thing useful that might come out of it might be a new type of carbon fiber that might be a new type of carbon fiber that might be a new type of carbon fiber that they had to develop as one of the they had to develop as one of the they had to develop as one of the subject lines. One of the the key subject lines. One of the the key subject lines. One of the the key performance parameters was this new type performance parameters was this new type performance parameters was this new type of carbon fiber that was lighter and of carbon fiber that was lighter and of carbon fiber that was lighter and stronger. So, they never built the stronger. So, they never built the stronger. So, they never built the rocket ship, but they have three other rocket ship, but they have three other rocket ship, but they have three other products that came out of it, and then products that came out of it, and then products that came out of it, and then those things get released into the free those things get released into the free those things get released into the free market. So, it's quite a useful market. So, it's quite a useful market. So, it's quite a useful organization. It's quite good actually. organization. It's quite good actually. organization. It's quite good actually. Um it was more applicable back in like Um it was more applicable back in like Um it was more applicable back in like the 80s and the 70s because um the 80s and the 70s because um the 80s and the 70s because um technology hadn't evolved to the point technology hadn't evolved to the point technology hadn't evolved to the point where any big idea was going to need where any big idea was going to need where any big idea was going to need hundreds of millions of dollars. Whereas hundreds of millions of dollars. Whereas hundreds of millions of dollars. Whereas today there's people out there like Elon today there's people out there like Elon today there's people out there like Elon and others who can fund these really big and others who can fund these really big and others who can fund these really big ideas. So it's still a good organization ideas. So it's still a good organization ideas. So it's still a good organization but that that would that I would say but that that would that I would say but that that would that I would say that's the last bastion of competence that's the last bastion of competence that's the last bastion of competence inside of the government. Otherwise it's inside of the government. Otherwise it's inside of the government. Otherwise it's a totally incompetent um organization. a totally incompetent um organization. a totally incompetent um organization. What was it that you said you had human What was it that you said you had human What was it that you said you had human hacking as well as software hacking? hacking as well as software hacking? hacking as well as software hacking? What was What was What was >> Well, human intelligence is the >> Well, human intelligence is the >> Well, human intelligence is the gathering of intelligence through human gathering of intelligence through human gathering of intelligence through human like you know source and method means like you know source and method means like you know source and method means sources and methods means and then sources and methods means and then sources and methods means and then there's um the government calls it there's um the government calls it there's um the government calls it ethical hacking which is really a ethical hacking which is really a ethical hacking which is really a ridiculous moniker um where you're you ridiculous moniker um where you're you ridiculous moniker um where you're you know you're exploiting computer systems know you're exploiting computer systems know you're exploiting computer systems and building things like zero days and and building things like zero days and and building things like zero days and you're exploiting um structural um you're exploiting um structural um you're exploiting um structural um cracks or crevices in technology and cracks or crevices in technology and cracks or crevices in technology and sometimes you'll never use them. and sometimes you'll never use them. and sometimes you'll never use them. and they'll just sit on the shelf and that's they'll just sit on the shelf and that's they'll just sit on the shelf and that's kind of where the term zero day comes kind of where the term zero day comes kind of where the term zero day comes from. It's like break in place in case from. It's like break in place in case from. It's like break in place in case break glass in case of emergency. break glass in case of emergency. break glass in case of emergency. >> Then there'll be other ones that get >> Then there'll be other ones that get >> Then there'll be other ones that get used all of the time. And then uh used all of the time. And then uh used all of the time. And then uh there'll be people who do this in the there'll be people who do this in the there'll be people who do this in the government. There'll be people who do government. There'll be people who do government. There'll be people who do this um you know white hack white hat this um you know white hack white hat this um you know white hack white hat hackers um who will expose these things hackers um who will expose these things hackers um who will expose these things and then you know either do it for a and then you know either do it for a and then you know either do it for a bounty with a company or do it to enable bounty with a company or do it to enable bounty with a company or do it to enable something that's on their own side. something that's on their own side. something that's on their own side. >> These people who are talented hackers >> These people who are talented hackers >> These people who are talented hackers get employed by a company to see if they get employed by a company to see if they get employed by a company to see if they can break their own system. That was my can break their own system. That was my can break their own system. That was my first job offering when I got out of the first job offering when I got out of the first job offering when I got out of the military was to do it for a bank. My military was to do it for a bank. My military was to do it for a bank. My friend, I have a very good friend who we friend, I have a very good friend who we friend, I have a very good friend who we went through the same training pipeline went through the same training pipeline went through the same training pipeline together and uh we were both offered a together and uh we were both offered a together and uh we were both offered a very good amount of money from a bank to very good amount of money from a bank to very good amount of money from a bank to just go after their own infrastructure just go after their own infrastructure just go after their own infrastructure and then report back on how we were able and then report back on how we were able and then report back on how we were able to um you know, to um you know, to um you know, >> it's a weird kind of ransom. >> it's a weird kind of ransom. >> it's a weird kind of ransom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's a it's a victimless ransom that >> It's a it's a victimless ransom that >> It's a it's a victimless ransom that only makes things stronger. only makes things stronger. only makes things stronger. >> Yeah. Right. Yes. Exactly. Penetration >> Yeah. Right. Yes. Exactly. Penetration >> Yeah. Right. Yes. Exactly. Penetration testing is the is the is the unfortunate testing is the is the is the unfortunate testing is the is the is the unfortunate moniker. Huh? Uh, when it comes to moniker. Huh? Uh, when it comes to moniker. Huh? Uh, when it comes to getting access to information systems, getting access to information systems, getting access to information systems, how often is it a software hack and how how often is it a software hack and how how often is it a software hack and how often is it a human hack? often is it a human hack? often is it a human hack? >> Uh, well, that depends on how it depends >> Uh, well, that depends on how it depends >> Uh, well, that depends on how it depends on your budget and how fortified the on your budget and how fortified the on your budget and how fortified the infrastructure is and how how they treat infrastructure is and how how they treat infrastructure is and how how they treat operational security or opsec. So, operational security or opsec. So, operational security or opsec. So, you'll do like a target profile. You you'll do like a target profile. You you'll do like a target profile. You you'll you know, your commander or you'll you know, your commander or you'll you know, your commander or whoever you work for will state a goal. whoever you work for will state a goal. whoever you work for will state a goal. we want access to, you know, X we want access to, you know, X we want access to, you know, X information at, you know, X information at, you know, X information at, you know, X organization, whatever that might be. organization, whatever that might be. organization, whatever that might be. And then you'll get a bunch of people And then you'll get a bunch of people And then you'll get a bunch of people like myself and from other disciplines. like myself and from other disciplines. like myself and from other disciplines. There's there's multiple there's many There's there's multiple there's many There's there's multiple there's many modes of intelligence, especially within modes of intelligence, especially within modes of intelligence, especially within the DoD. There's uh Mazant, there's the DoD. There's uh Mazant, there's the DoD. There's uh Mazant, there's fizzant, there's elint, there's comet, fizzant, there's elint, there's comet, fizzant, there's elint, there's comet, there's um cyber, there's open- source there's um cyber, there's open- source there's um cyber, there's open- source intelligence. Mazant is uh measuring in intelligence. Mazant is uh measuring in intelligence. Mazant is uh measuring in area signals. Um uh fizzant is telemetry area signals. Um uh fizzant is telemetry area signals. Um uh fizzant is telemetry intelligence. So you know a space intelligence. So you know a space intelligence. So you know a space shuttle will report back information to shuttle will report back information to shuttle will report back information to the ground station as it's ascending or the ground station as it's ascending or the ground station as it's ascending or or a plane will be giving information or a plane will be giving information or a plane will be giving information back to its ground station while it's back to its ground station while it's back to its ground station while it's maneuvering. Uh it's the interception of maneuvering. Uh it's the interception of maneuvering. Uh it's the interception of that information. There's elint which is that information. There's elint which is that information. There's elint which is electronic intelligence going after um electronic intelligence going after um electronic intelligence going after um radars associating with uh aircraft or radars associating with uh aircraft or radars associating with uh aircraft or AAA batteries or early warning radars or AAA batteries or early warning radars or AAA batteries or early warning radars or fire control radars on on ships or fire control radars on on ships or fire control radars on on ships or airplanes. um the interception of those airplanes. um the interception of those airplanes. um the interception of those signals and parsing it. Uh I realized I signals and parsing it. Uh I realized I signals and parsing it. Uh I realized I said a bunch of uh uh acronyms and said a bunch of uh uh acronyms and said a bunch of uh uh acronyms and didn't explain them. So now I'm didn't explain them. So now I'm didn't explain them. So now I'm explaining them. Then there's open explaining them. Then there's open explaining them. Then there's open source intelligence. Uh there's a source intelligence. Uh there's a source intelligence. Uh there's a variety of intelligence. So you'd have variety of intelligence. So you'd have variety of intelligence. So you'd have all of those people in the room who all of those people in the room who all of those people in the room who conduct those things. And they'd say conduct those things. And they'd say conduct those things. And they'd say what are the vulnerabilities? Um you what are the vulnerabilities? Um you what are the vulnerabilities? Um you know, we've done a target analysis of know, we've done a target analysis of know, we've done a target analysis of this. What are the v vulnerabilities or this. What are the v vulnerabilities or this. What are the v vulnerabilities or likely vectors that we can access? Um likely vectors that we can access? Um likely vectors that we can access? Um and if you've got a budget, so you know, and if you've got a budget, so you know, and if you've got a budget, so you know, what are some of the cheapest ways? The what are some of the cheapest ways? The what are some of the cheapest ways? The cheapest ways are always recruiting cheapest ways are always recruiting cheapest ways are always recruiting humans that work inside of the humans that work inside of the humans that work inside of the organization. So whether it's terrorists organization. So whether it's terrorists organization. So whether it's terrorists or government or or government or or government or >> that's always cheaper than trying to >> that's always cheaper than trying to >> that's always cheaper than trying to hack the technology. hack the technology. hack the technology. >> 95% of the time it's cheaper. It >> 95% of the time it's cheaper. It >> 95% of the time it's cheaper. It depends. Again, it depends on what depends. Again, it depends on what depends. Again, it depends on what technology we're going after. Um if it's technology we're going after. Um if it's technology we're going after. Um if it's a you know a 3G Nokia in in Iran, uh a you know a 3G Nokia in in Iran, uh a you know a 3G Nokia in in Iran, uh that's an easy day. If it's a uh uh you that's an easy day. If it's a uh uh you that's an easy day. If it's a uh uh you know uh let's see what would be know uh let's see what would be know uh let's see what would be something very difficult. um a highly something very difficult. um a highly something very difficult. um a highly encrypted satellite communication encrypted satellite communication encrypted satellite communication network where you need to be in the network where you need to be in the network where you need to be in the physical footprint of the satellite lobe physical footprint of the satellite lobe physical footprint of the satellite lobe in order to do the collection. That's in order to do the collection. That's in order to do the collection. That's placement, that's access, that's money, placement, that's access, that's money, placement, that's access, that's money, that's recruiting, that's hacking, that's recruiting, that's hacking, that's recruiting, that's hacking, that's decryption. There's a bunch that's decryption. There's a bunch that's decryption. There's a bunch there. there. there. >> So, it really depends on the nature of >> So, it really depends on the nature of >> So, it really depends on the nature of the target and the technology. Um but uh the target and the technology. Um but uh the target and the technology. Um but uh generally inside of an organization generally inside of an organization generally inside of an organization there would be people with loose morals there would be people with loose morals there would be people with loose morals and you can obvious often get a lot out and you can obvious often get a lot out and you can obvious often get a lot out of them for just paying them 30 or 40 or of them for just paying them 30 or 40 or of them for just paying them 30 or 40 or 50k or you know finding out someone who 50k or you know finding out someone who 50k or you know finding out someone who runs the security network whose daughter runs the security network whose daughter runs the security network whose daughter needs eye surgery or has macular needs eye surgery or has macular needs eye surgery or has macular degeneration. degeneration. degeneration. >> You bump into them at a coffee shop and >> You bump into them at a coffee shop and >> You bump into them at a coffee shop and strike up a conversation and I like what strike up a conversation and I like what strike up a conversation and I like what you like and establish rapport and then you like and establish rapport and then you like and establish rapport and then eventually get to the point where you eventually get to the point where you eventually get to the point where you recruit them and then you pay them and recruit them and then you pay them and recruit them and then you pay them and then you get your information. That's then you get your information. That's then you get your information. That's more classic spy craft type stuff. more classic spy craft type stuff. more classic spy craft type stuff. >> Yes, exactly. >> Yes, exactly. >> Yes, exactly. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> So, I was trained in that classically >> So, I was trained in that classically >> So, I was trained in that classically while I was in the military, but it was while I was in the military, but it was while I was in the military, but it was in order to conduct um forensic in order to conduct um forensic in order to conduct um forensic exploitation. Um exploitation. Um exploitation. Um >> forensic exploitation. >> forensic exploitation. >> forensic exploitation. >> Yes. In in support of these types of >> Yes. In in support of these types of >> Yes. In in support of these types of operations. operations. operations. >> What's that? What's forensic >> What's that? What's forensic >> What's that? What's forensic exploitation? exploitation? exploitation? >> Uh you're handling a source and you're >> Uh you're handling a source and you're >> Uh you're handling a source and you're worried that he's not obeying your worried that he's not obeying your worried that he's not obeying your instructions. So, now you're going to instructions. So, now you're going to instructions. So, now you're going to pull the GPS or data from the phone to pull the GPS or data from the phone to pull the GPS or data from the phone to make sure that he drove there the way make sure that he drove there the way make sure that he drove there the way that you told him that. that you told him that. that you told him that. >> Okay. So this is beginning to cross the >> Okay. So this is beginning to cross the >> Okay. So this is beginning to cross the two. This isn't just the human side. two. This isn't just the human side. two. This isn't just the human side. It's not just the technological side. It's not just the technological side. It's not just the technological side. >> Signals intelligence and computer um >> Signals intelligence and computer um >> Signals intelligence and computer um network operations supporting the human network operations supporting the human network operations supporting the human intelligence targeting cycle. intelligence targeting cycle. intelligence targeting cycle. >> Wow. Okay. Yeah. To ensure that assets >> Wow. Okay. Yeah. To ensure that assets >> Wow. Okay. Yeah. To ensure that assets are doing what they say that they do, are doing what they say that they do, are doing what they say that they do, right? Okay. Yeah. Because there's right? Okay. Yeah. Because there's right? Okay. Yeah. Because there's layers and layers. There's what you want layers and layers. There's what you want layers and layers. There's what you want them to achieve technologically, but them to achieve technologically, but them to achieve technologically, but then there's surveilling them to ensure then there's surveilling them to ensure then there's surveilling them to ensure that they're doing what you want them to that they're doing what you want them to that they're doing what you want them to do in order to achieve what you want do in order to achieve what you want do in order to achieve what you want them to achieve them to achieve them to achieve >> technology. You don't want them showing >> technology. You don't want them showing >> technology. You don't want them showing up like, you know, they might be running up like, you know, they might be running up like, you know, they might be running late from work, so they just take a late from work, so they just take a late from work, so they just take a direct beline to your meat instead of direct beline to your meat instead of direct beline to your meat instead of conducting a surveillance detection conducting a surveillance detection conducting a surveillance detection route. And now they, you know, they left route. And now they, you know, they left route. And now they, you know, they left their facility and they left with their facility and they left with their facility and they left with surveillance. Now the surveillance surveillance. Now the surveillance surveillance. Now the surveillance pulled them all the way to where you're pulled them all the way to where you're pulled them all the way to where you're doing your meat. doing your meat. doing your meat. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Instead of doing the surveillance >> Instead of doing the surveillance >> Instead of doing the surveillance detection route and dumping the detection route and dumping the detection route and dumping the surveillance, not dumping, cataloging surveillance, not dumping, cataloging surveillance, not dumping, cataloging the the surveillance and then not the the surveillance and then not the the surveillance and then not attending the meeting because you've got attending the meeting because you've got attending the meeting because you've got a tail. a tail. a tail. >> Wow. Okay. What are >> Wow. Okay. What are >> Wow. Okay. What are what are some of the gnarliest exploits what are some of the gnarliest exploits what are some of the gnarliest exploits or information hacks that are publicly or information hacks that are publicly or information hacks that are publicly available and you can talk about but not available and you can talk about but not available and you can talk about but not enough people know about? I mean, enough people know about? I mean, enough people know about? I mean, Pegasus is probably the king of that. Pegasus is probably the king of that. Pegasus is probably the king of that. Um, it it's basically a persistence Um, it it's basically a persistence Um, it it's basically a persistence persistent implant that lives on the persistent implant that lives on the persistent implant that lives on the phone. Um, that in its earliest phone. Um, that in its earliest phone. Um, that in its earliest iterations required you click some type iterations required you click some type iterations required you click some type of link. So there would be a fishing of link. So there would be a fishing of link. So there would be a fishing element to it where you know you're element to it where you know you're element to it where you know you're getting an email or you're getting a getting an email or you're getting a getting an email or you're getting a text where you know I might you know text where you know I might you know text where you know I might you know conduct some exploitation on your phone conduct some exploitation on your phone conduct some exploitation on your phone and figure out you text a lot with and figure out you text a lot with and figure out you text a lot with person A and then so now I'm going to um person A and then so now I'm going to um person A and then so now I'm going to um use the network and send a message use the network and send a message use the network and send a message that's looking like it's coming from that's looking like it's coming from that's looking like it's coming from that person saying hey Chris come and that person saying hey Chris come and that person saying hey Chris come and check this link out blah blah blah blah check this link out blah blah blah blah check this link out blah blah blah blah blah be innocuous or a website or blah be innocuous or a website or blah be innocuous or a website or something like that that it sends you to something like that that it sends you to something like that that it sends you to but then it would deliver some packets but then it would deliver some packets but then it would deliver some packets that would implant itself in you know uh that would implant itself in you know uh that would implant itself in you know uh a part of your telephone that was a part of your telephone that was a part of your telephone that was specific specifically for iPhone, iOS. specific specifically for iPhone, iOS. specific specifically for iPhone, iOS. >> Uh yeah, but but I believe it branched >> Uh yeah, but but I believe it branched >> Uh yeah, but but I believe it branched out since then. So Pegasus was post my out since then. So Pegasus was post my out since then. So Pegasus was post my military career, military career, military career, >> so I didn't actually get to go and do >> so I didn't actually get to go and do >> so I didn't actually get to go and do the exploitation on it that I wanted to the exploitation on it that I wanted to the exploitation on it that I wanted to do on it or that I would have wanted to do on it or that I would have wanted to do on it or that I would have wanted to do it on. I read some papers. I talked do it on. I read some papers. I talked do it on. I read some papers. I talked to some friends who are still in and to some friends who are still in and to some friends who are still in and asked them about it. Um but uh it lived asked them about it. Um but uh it lived asked them about it. Um but uh it lived in a different place on the phone than in a different place on the phone than in a different place on the phone than it would even stand up to a person like it would even stand up to a person like it would even stand up to a person like me doing a quick um triage natureed me doing a quick um triage natureed me doing a quick um triage natureed forensics exploitation where I dump the forensics exploitation where I dump the forensics exploitation where I dump the phone and look through it. M phone and look through it. M phone and look through it. M >> it was stored in a place where it wasn't >> it was stored in a place where it wasn't >> it was stored in a place where it wasn't obvious that you should be looking for obvious that you should be looking for obvious that you should be looking for any type of code there or malicious code any type of code there or malicious code any type of code there or malicious code there. there. there. >> Who made it? >> Who made it? >> Who made it? >> Uh I mean I believe it was made by the >> Uh I mean I believe it was made by the >> Uh I mean I believe it was made by the Israelis. Um I I think that's common Israelis. Um I I think that's common Israelis. Um I I think that's common knowledge. That certainly was one of the knowledge. That certainly was one of the knowledge. That certainly was one of the most like holy [ __ ] these guys cracked most like holy [ __ ] these guys cracked most like holy [ __ ] these guys cracked the nut here. Um say what you will about the nut here. Um say what you will about the nut here. Um say what you will about Israel. Um they certainly have their Israel. Um they certainly have their Israel. Um they certainly have their trade craft and their military operation trade craft and their military operation trade craft and their military operation planning um down well. Dude, if you can planning um down well. Dude, if you can planning um down well. Dude, if you can blow the balls off 3,000 [ __ ] you know, blow the balls off 3,000 [ __ ] you know, blow the balls off 3,000 [ __ ] you know, enemy combatants at the same time using enemy combatants at the same time using enemy combatants at the same time using a pager. a pager. a pager. >> Oh man, I wish I'd have been part of >> Oh man, I wish I'd have been part of >> Oh man, I wish I'd have been part of something like that, something like that, something like that, >> that would have been great. >> that would have been great. >> that would have been great. >> That kind of fell away, that new story. >> That kind of fell away, that new story. >> That kind of fell away, that new story. It was I mean, it happened. Everyone was It was I mean, it happened. Everyone was It was I mean, it happened. Everyone was interested in it, but that to me seems interested in it, but that to me seems interested in it, but that to me seems like one of the most like insane. like one of the most like insane. like one of the most like insane. >> They should make a movie about that >> They should make a movie about that >> They should make a movie about that >> precise. >> precise. >> precise. >> Yeah. Yeah. It would be just years of >> Yeah. Yeah. It would be just years of >> Yeah. Yeah. It would be just years of target development, sourcing, corporate target development, sourcing, corporate target development, sourcing, corporate espionage, supply chain interdiction. espionage, supply chain interdiction. espionage, supply chain interdiction. The amount of things that had to go into The amount of things that had to go into The amount of things that had to go into that to make that happen. Uh, you know, that to make that happen. Uh, you know, that to make that happen. Uh, you know, just getting plastic or whatever they just getting plastic or whatever they just getting plastic or whatever they use inside of a, you know, a pager, use inside of a, you know, a pager, use inside of a, you know, a pager, that's easy. Supply interdiction, you that's easy. Supply interdiction, you that's easy. Supply interdiction, you know, making it through this network, know, making it through this network, know, making it through this network, paying off the right people, delivery, paying off the right people, delivery, paying off the right people, delivery, the patience to wait, you know, that the patience to wait, you know, that the patience to wait, you know, that they're with all of these people. Uh, they're with all of these people. Uh, they're with all of these people. Uh, it's just, you know, that was a stroke it's just, you know, that was a stroke it's just, you know, that was a stroke of genius. of genius. of genius. >> Most people have no idea where their >> Most people have no idea where their >> Most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. But what if I testosterone levels sit. But what if I testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution? Something told you there was a solution? Something told you there was a solution? Something that identifies low tea faster than a that identifies low tea faster than a that identifies low tea faster than a high school bully, and it won't cost you high school bully, and it won't cost you high school bully, and it won't cost you all your lunch money. That's where all your lunch money. That's where all your lunch money. That's where Function comes in. Gives you access to Function comes in. Gives you access to Function comes in. 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Is that more secure somehow? secure somehow? secure somehow? >> There there was they probably Yeah, they >> There there was they probably Yeah, they >> There there was they probably Yeah, they probably got the idea that smartphones probably got the idea that smartphones probably got the idea that smartphones are no longer secure. So now we're going are no longer secure. So now we're going are no longer secure. So now we're going to go revert back to um which is to go revert back to um which is to go revert back to um which is actually you know throughout my time in actually you know throughout my time in actually you know throughout my time in the global war on terrorism that was the global war on terrorism that was the global war on terrorism that was definitely a thing that would happen definitely a thing that would happen definitely a thing that would happen like we'd nail down one type of like we'd nail down one type of like we'd nail down one type of technology we'd exploit it we'd kill a technology we'd exploit it we'd kill a technology we'd exploit it we'd kill a bunch of people and then they you know bunch of people and then they you know bunch of people and then they you know pivot to a different piece of technology pivot to a different piece of technology pivot to a different piece of technology or regress back to um you know something or regress back to um you know something or regress back to um you know something more primitive they did the same thing more primitive they did the same thing more primitive they did the same thing even with um IEDs you know IEDs started even with um IEDs you know IEDs started even with um IEDs you know IEDs started very primitively you know pressure very primitively you know pressure very primitively you know pressure sensors pressure triggers um you had to sensors pressure triggers um you had to sensors pressure triggers um you had to physically you know manipulate you know physically you know manipulate you know physically you know manipulate you know drive over something drive over something drive over something >> and then they got to command and >> and then they got to command and >> and then they got to command and detonated and then they got to using detonated and then they got to using detonated and then they got to using garage doors that were operating in a garage doors that were operating in a garage doors that were operating in a frequency band that the uh the initial frequency band that the uh the initial frequency band that the uh the initial mellins that we put out which were mellins that we put out which were mellins that we put out which were sensing the RF environment would tell sensing the RF environment would tell sensing the RF environment would tell you if there was something in the area you if there was something in the area you if there was something in the area uh and set it off. So then they started uh and set it off. So then they started uh and set it off. So then they started using the garage door openers that were using the garage door openers that were using the garage door openers that were in a very low frequency band range that in a very low frequency band range that in a very low frequency band range that was outside of the mellins. the Mellans was outside of the mellins. the Mellans was outside of the mellins. the Mellans pivoted and then they went back to uh pivoted and then they went back to uh pivoted and then they went back to uh remote pressure and or or running a wire remote pressure and or or running a wire remote pressure and or or running a wire up to a hotel room and sitting in the up to a hotel room and sitting in the up to a hotel room and sitting in the hotel room and waiting. hotel room and waiting. hotel room and waiting. >> So, you know, like you said, the free >> So, you know, like you said, the free >> So, you know, like you said, the free market can pivot and develop new market can pivot and develop new market can pivot and develop new technology and and asymmetric warfare in technology and and asymmetric warfare in technology and and asymmetric warfare in asymmetric warfare, the threat can asymmetric warfare, the threat can asymmetric warfare, the threat can pivot, especially when you're dealing pivot, especially when you're dealing pivot, especially when you're dealing with somebody who doesn't wear a uniform with somebody who doesn't wear a uniform with somebody who doesn't wear a uniform and doesn't care about the law of Geneva and doesn't care about the law of Geneva and doesn't care about the law of Geneva Conventions. Conventions. Conventions. >> They'll just go wherever they need to go >> They'll just go wherever they need to go >> They'll just go wherever they need to go to keep effective. Yeah, exactly. Uh to keep effective. Yeah, exactly. Uh to keep effective. Yeah, exactly. Uh this is what we saw in Ukraine, right, this is what we saw in Ukraine, right, this is what we saw in Ukraine, right, with drones that with drones that with drones that >> uh >> uh >> uh $500 drone with a bit of plastic $500 drone with a bit of plastic $500 drone with a bit of plastic explosives. Yeah. Was able to find the explosives. Yeah. Was able to find the explosives. Yeah. Was able to find the weakness in this particular tank. So weakness in this particular tank. So weakness in this particular tank. So then the tanks got then the tanks got then the tanks got >> webbed uh like uh frontage like prongs >> webbed uh like uh frontage like prongs >> webbed uh like uh frontage like prongs at the top so that they would get at the top so that they would get at the top so that they would get caught. Okay. So we'll find a way to get caught. Okay. So we'll find a way to get caught. Okay. So we'll find a way to get around that. Uh so then EMP blasts will around that. Uh so then EMP blasts will around that. Uh so then EMP blasts will be used to knock them out of the sky. So be used to knock them out of the sky. So be used to knock them out of the sky. So then we'll run basically big [ __ ] then we'll run basically big [ __ ] then we'll run basically big [ __ ] strings, big cords. Yeah. It's this strings, big cords. Yeah. It's this strings, big cords. Yeah. It's this rapidly evolving. rapidly evolving. rapidly evolving. >> It's like that baseball game with the >> It's like that baseball game with the >> It's like that baseball game with the bat where you're putting hands over the bat where you're putting hands over the bat where you're putting hands over the top and then you know ro shamoo or top and then you know ro shamoo or top and then you know ro shamoo or whatever they used to call it. The same whatever they used to call it. The same whatever they used to call it. The same thing. You're just thing. You're just thing. You're just >> how how can we pivot? That's what the >> how how can we pivot? That's what the >> how how can we pivot? That's what the military and the government by by and military and the government by by and military and the government by by and large is really bad at is pivoting and large is really bad at is pivoting and large is really bad at is pivoting and responding to pivoting because we're responding to pivoting because we're responding to pivoting because we're militaries that are built around militaries that are built around militaries that are built around symmetric threats. We were thinking symmetric threats. We were thinking symmetric threats. We were thinking about the Russians. We were thinking about the Russians. We were thinking about the Russians. We were thinking about the Chinese and you know that's about the Chinese and you know that's about the Chinese and you know that's you know Geneva Conventions law of land you know Geneva Conventions law of land you know Geneva Conventions law of land warfare you know there's certain warfare you know there's certain warfare you know there's certain gentleman rules that you'll obey and say gentleman rules that you'll obey and say gentleman rules that you'll obey and say we're not going to do we won't target we're not going to do we won't target we're not going to do we won't target civilians we won't target churches we civilians we won't target churches we civilians we won't target churches we won't target mosques we won't do these won't target mosques we won't do these won't target mosques we won't do these types of things and then you know types of things and then you know types of things and then you know terrorists just look at that and say oh terrorists just look at that and say oh terrorists just look at that and say oh they're showing us their weaknesses they're showing us their weaknesses they're showing us their weaknesses let's run all of our operations you know let's run all of our operations you know let's run all of our operations you know I just read a news report the other day I just read a news report the other day I just read a news report the other day about Gaza using the hospitals as about Gaza using the hospitals as about Gaza using the hospitals as torture facilities torture facilities torture facilities um it was just like two or three days um it was just like two or three days um it was just like two or three days ago. ago. ago. >> [ __ ] me, [clears throat] that's morbid. >> [ __ ] me, [clears throat] that's morbid. >> [ __ ] me, [clears throat] that's morbid. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they're just overtaking >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they're just overtaking >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they're just overtaking these hospitals. Um these hospitals. Um these hospitals. Um >> there was um a book I brought the author >> there was um a book I brought the author >> there was um a book I brought the author on. I I wasn't ever able to actually on. I I wasn't ever able to actually on. I I wasn't ever able to actually release the episode, but I brought an release the episode, but I brought an release the episode, but I brought an author on who had written a book that author on who had written a book that author on who had written a book that was about all of the intelligence was about all of the intelligence was about all of the intelligence failures of America. Oh. failures of America. Oh. failures of America. Oh. >> And uh it was like a popular history >> And uh it was like a popular history >> And uh it was like a popular history book, but it came up to pretty recent. book, but it came up to pretty recent. book, but it came up to pretty recent. And when they did the Osama bin Laden And when they did the Osama bin Laden And when they did the Osama bin Laden raid, they found the book on his bedside raid, they found the book on his bedside raid, they found the book on his bedside table. And this guy was an old school table. And this guy was an old school table. And this guy was an old school British bloke and he [snorts] British bloke and he [snorts] British bloke and he [snorts] immediately rang his publisher and said, immediately rang his publisher and said, immediately rang his publisher and said, "We need to put this on the front cover "We need to put this on the front cover "We need to put this on the front cover of the paperback release." Like so good of the paperback release." Like so good of the paperback release." Like so good that Osama bin Laden had it on his that Osama bin Laden had it on his that Osama bin Laden had it on his bedside nightstand. But yeah, he he was bedside nightstand. But yeah, he he was bedside nightstand. But yeah, he he was using Osama bin Laden was using a using Osama bin Laden was using a using Osama bin Laden was using a popular history book about the failings popular history book about the failings popular history book about the failings of the American intelligence agencies of the American intelligence agencies of the American intelligence agencies and the rest of the and the rest of the and the rest of the >> right next to his Averal Lavine CD. >> right next to his Averal Lavine CD. >> right next to his Averal Lavine CD. >> Yeah, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. >> Bacon. >> Bacon. >> Bacon. >> Yeah. We uh we we put a lot of that out >> Yeah. We uh we we put a lot of that out >> Yeah. We uh we we put a lot of that out there. I mean um I I'm proud to say I there. I mean um I I'm proud to say I there. I mean um I I'm proud to say I worked in a lot of military worked in a lot of military worked in a lot of military organizations where none of the members organizations where none of the members organizations where none of the members have published books yet. I'm have published books yet. I'm have published books yet. I'm anti-bloated government. I'm like so anti-bloated government. I'm like so anti-bloated government. I'm like so against you know Andy you mentioned at against you know Andy you mentioned at against you know Andy you mentioned at the beginning had me on his podcast and the beginning had me on his podcast and the beginning had me on his podcast and said if you you know if you're a said if you you know if you're a said if you you know if you're a dictator for the day how much you read dictator for the day how much you read dictator for the day how much you read would you reduce the federal government would you reduce the federal government would you reduce the federal government by and I said 80%. And I just gave a by and I said 80%. And I just gave a by and I said 80%. And I just gave a long list of organizations that would long list of organizations that would long list of organizations that would just go away. just go away. just go away. >> Um there's it's just it's a self-licking >> Um there's it's just it's a self-licking >> Um there's it's just it's a self-licking ice cream cone that's its only ends and ice cream cone that's its only ends and ice cream cone that's its only ends and means are to grow and to pull pull more means are to grow and to pull pull more means are to grow and to pull pull more purse strings for the majority of the purse strings for the majority of the purse strings for the majority of the time. So, time. So, time. So, >> it's been an interesting loop to watch >> it's been an interesting loop to watch >> it's been an interesting loop to watch uh Elon's arc over the last what like uh Elon's arc over the last what like uh Elon's arc over the last what like two years or so. two years or so. two years or so. >> Oh, very much so. >> Oh, very much so. >> Oh, very much so. >> As with Doge, right? Because I think >> As with Doge, right? Because I think >> As with Doge, right? Because I think >> it's this weird oraorus eating itself of >> it's this weird oraorus eating itself of >> it's this weird oraorus eating itself of we shouldn't have trillionaires because we shouldn't have trillionaires because we shouldn't have trillionaires because they're able to evade tax. We need to they're able to evade tax. We need to they're able to evade tax. We need to take more taxes. A lot of rich people take more taxes. A lot of rich people take more taxes. A lot of rich people say, "I want to pay taxes." I think the say, "I want to pay taxes." I think the say, "I want to pay taxes." I think the top like 1% of earners pay 30% of the top like 1% of earners pay 30% of the top like 1% of earners pay 30% of the taxes already. But taxes already. But taxes already. But the main concern of most rich high the main concern of most rich high the main concern of most rich high taxpaying people is look at all of the taxpaying people is look at all of the taxpaying people is look at all of the [ __ ] waste and fraud that this is [ __ ] waste and fraud that this is [ __ ] waste and fraud that this is being spent on. And the guy that's being spent on. And the guy that's being spent on. And the guy that's paying the most tax was also the guy paying the most tax was also the guy paying the most tax was also the guy that was trying to remove some of the that was trying to remove some of the that was trying to remove some of the inefficiencies to be able to as opposed inefficiencies to be able to as opposed inefficiencies to be able to as opposed to pouring more into the top. It's like to pouring more into the top. It's like to pouring more into the top. It's like let's make the system that spits it out let's make the system that spits it out let's make the system that spits it out the bottom more efficient so that we can the bottom more efficient so that we can the bottom more efficient so that we can actually get more of it. We have some actually get more of it. We have some actually get more of it. We have some taxes going in. Lots of that's being taxes going in. Lots of that's being taxes going in. Lots of that's being wasted. How can we make it more wasted. How can we make it more wasted. How can we make it more efficient? I had um the uh efficient? I had um the uh efficient? I had um the uh CIO, the chief information officer for CIO, the chief information officer for CIO, the chief information officer for the Treasury Department, uh Sam Caucus, the Treasury Department, uh Sam Caucus, the Treasury Department, uh Sam Caucus, who founded Levels. I had him on the who founded Levels. I had him on the who founded Levels. I had him on the podcast last year and he's the it was podcast last year and he's the it was podcast last year and he's the it was the first long form interview that the first long form interview that the first long form interview that anybody from Doge had done um at his anybody from Doge had done um at his anybody from Doge had done um at his level. level. level. >> I think I saw that one. >> I think I saw that one. >> I think I saw that one. >> Great. But he's like, "Dude, it's >> Great. But he's like, "Dude, it's >> Great. But he's like, "Dude, it's [ __ ] ancient." [ __ ] ancient." [ __ ] ancient." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This entire organization is a big >> This entire organization is a big >> This entire organization is a big lumbering behemoth. uh it leans left as lumbering behemoth. uh it leans left as lumbering behemoth. uh it leans left as well internally and it's not agile. It's well internally and it's not agile. It's well internally and it's not agile. It's not able to be kept up to date and all not able to be kept up to date and all not able to be kept up to date and all of these systems is he was explaining of these systems is he was explaining of these systems is he was explaining it's like it's like it's like 16 intersecting different systems that 16 intersecting different systems that 16 intersecting different systems that need to well this type of information is need to well this type of information is need to well this type of information is held on this particular type of database held on this particular type of database held on this particular type of database and we need to do a lookup request that and we need to do a lookup request that and we need to do a lookup request that comes across to this one. So it's not comes across to this one. So it's not comes across to this one. So it's not one coh it's not a big [ __ ] Excel one coh it's not a big [ __ ] Excel one coh it's not a big [ __ ] Excel spreadsheet right that just holds spreadsheet right that just holds spreadsheet right that just holds everything. It's this Frankenstein's everything. It's this Frankenstein's everything. It's this Frankenstein's monster that's been like contorted over monster that's been like contorted over monster that's been like contorted over time to it functions it functions in as time to it functions it functions in as time to it functions it functions in as much as the country hasn't fallen apart much as the country hasn't fallen apart much as the country hasn't fallen apart and you're able to like submit taxes and and you're able to like submit taxes and and you're able to like submit taxes and you're able to pay them but uh yeah it's you're able to pay them but uh yeah it's you're able to pay them but uh yeah it's um it's a mess. It's a mess. Yeah, it's um it's a mess. It's a mess. Yeah, it's um it's a mess. It's a mess. Yeah, it's it my experience was my last job when I it my experience was my last job when I it my experience was my last job when I left the military was I was advising um left the military was I was advising um left the military was I was advising um a twoar general and a full colonel who a twoar general and a full colonel who a twoar general and a full colonel who were in charge of all the offensive were in charge of all the offensive were in charge of all the offensive cyber development for the army. So cyber development for the army. So cyber development for the army. So offensive cyber is hacking is another offensive cyber is hacking is another offensive cyber is hacking is another term uh offensive cyber operations. Um term uh offensive cyber operations. Um term uh offensive cyber operations. Um offco is what we called it. um they're offco is what we called it. um they're offco is what we called it. um they're they they recognize the ridiculousness they they recognize the ridiculousness they they recognize the ridiculousness of the program, but all of these of the program, but all of these of the program, but all of these programs you get a budget for the year programs you get a budget for the year programs you get a budget for the year and if you don't execute the whole and if you don't execute the whole and if you don't execute the whole budget, I've never seen a general get budget, I've never seen a general get budget, I've never seen a general get dressed down more than when I'd be dressed down more than when I'd be dressed down more than when I'd be sitting at the Pentagon behind them and sitting at the Pentagon behind them and sitting at the Pentagon behind them and they hadn't executed the full budget. they hadn't executed the full budget. they hadn't executed the full budget. There were these three guys and I can't There were these three guys and I can't There were these three guys and I can't remember their names but they sat in remember their names but they sat in remember their names but they sat in like what was the G357 which is in chop like what was the G357 which is in chop like what was the G357 which is in chop in in charge of operations um training in in charge of operations um training in in charge of operations um training and sustainment or something like that and sustainment or something like that and sustainment or something like that but they were the ones who gave the but they were the ones who gave the but they were the ones who gave the money. So they would say to general so money. So they would say to general so money. So they would say to general so and so here's your hundred billion and so here's your hundred billion and so here's your hundred billion dollars for this year. dollars for this year. dollars for this year. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> If they executed only 99 billion and >> If they executed only 99 billion and >> If they executed only 99 billion and there was a billion left over they were there was a billion left over they were there was a billion left over they were going to get fired. They hadn't spent going to get fired. They hadn't spent going to get fired. They hadn't spent every penny. So the general or the the every penny. So the general or the the every penny. So the general or the the president puts out what's called the president puts out what's called the president puts out what's called the national intelligence priority framework national intelligence priority framework national intelligence priority framework which is the NPIF covers here are the which is the NPIF covers here are the which is the NPIF covers here are the effects that I want the US military to effects that I want the US military to effects that I want the US military to have on the battlefield. They need to be have on the battlefield. They need to be have on the battlefield. They need to be able to do these things and here are the able to do these things and here are the able to do these things and here are the peers and near peers in these areas and peers and near peers in these areas and peers and near peers in these areas and here are the countries that we don't here are the countries that we don't here are the countries that we don't want to go after. So I would sit down want to go after. So I would sit down want to go after. So I would sit down with the with the general um after he with the with the general um after he with the with the general um after he got hit they would flow down to this got hit they would flow down to this got hit they would flow down to this general who's in charge of offensive general who's in charge of offensive general who's in charge of offensive cyber. Then we'd have these roundts cyber. Then we'd have these roundts cyber. Then we'd have these roundts where we would say, you know, in this where we would say, you know, in this where we would say, you know, in this area, what can we go after? Um, what area, what can we go after? Um, what area, what can we go after? Um, what product lines that we have that already product lines that we have that already product lines that we have that already support these efforts? Um, uh, which one support these efforts? Um, uh, which one support these efforts? Um, uh, which one of these can we not do or should we tell of these can we not do or should we tell of these can we not do or should we tell them that we'll either need more funding them that we'll either need more funding them that we'll either need more funding or it's not a vector that we should or it's not a vector that we should or it's not a vector that we should pursue at this time. And we would go pursue at this time. And we would go pursue at this time. And we would go over all of those things and we would over all of those things and we would over all of those things and we would think that we got most of the budget think that we got most of the budget think that we got most of the budget program. That was the sole thing that program. That was the sole thing that program. That was the sole thing that drove everything. And this is the most drove everything. And this is the most drove everything. And this is the most frustrating part. It really opened my frustrating part. It really opened my frustrating part. It really opened my eyes to government. Budget and money eyes to government. Budget and money eyes to government. Budget and money drove every everything. It didn't even drove every everything. It didn't even drove every everything. It didn't even really matter if we were um meeting the really matter if we were um meeting the really matter if we were um meeting the president's requirements as long as we president's requirements as long as we president's requirements as long as we got to say we as long as we could lie to got to say we as long as we could lie to got to say we as long as we could lie to a threshold that they wouldn't be able a threshold that they wouldn't be able a threshold that they wouldn't be able to figure out that we were executing the to figure out that we were executing the to figure out that we were executing the budget. budget. budget. >> It just needed the money needed to be >> It just needed the money needed to be >> It just needed the money needed to be spent. That was what it was all about. spent. That was what it was all about. spent. That was what it was all about. >> Any uh espionage and subtifuge happening >> Any uh espionage and subtifuge happening >> Any uh espionage and subtifuge happening externally, it's also happening externally, it's also happening externally, it's also happening internally. internally. internally. >> Yes. And and and then when the money >> Yes. And and and then when the money >> Yes. And and and then when the money wouldn't get spent, you would like every wouldn't get spent, you would like every wouldn't get spent, you would like every all the military guys would get and all the military guys would get and all the military guys would get and there was only a few in the there was only a few in the there was only a few in the organization. It was mostly civilians. organization. It was mostly civilians. organization. It was mostly civilians. Um, I would say 85% of it was civilians. Um, I would say 85% of it was civilians. Um, I would say 85% of it was civilians. They would get pulled in and say, "Look, They would get pulled in and say, "Look, They would get pulled in and say, "Look, we've still got $100 million and it's we've still got $100 million and it's we've still got $100 million and it's it's July. The budget's up in September. it's July. The budget's up in September. it's July. The budget's up in September. Where can we spend money right now?" Where can we spend money right now?" Where can we spend money right now?" >> And they' just be like, "Whatever course >> And they' just be like, "Whatever course >> And they' just be like, "Whatever course you want to go to, chief, go. Whatever you want to go to, chief, go. Whatever you want to go to, chief, go. Whatever thing you want to go to, you want to go thing you want to go to, you want to go thing you want to go to, you want to go do that, just spend it all." And then do that, just spend it all." And then do that, just spend it all." And then when you executed the budget, it was when you executed the budget, it was when you executed the budget, it was successful. Um, but it never really like successful. Um, but it never really like successful. Um, but it never really like in my mind it was always if a general in my mind it was always if a general in my mind it was always if a general officer who's got a cadre of folks like officer who's got a cadre of folks like officer who's got a cadre of folks like myself who are experts in their fields myself who are experts in their fields myself who are experts in their fields say look we can achieve the effects the say look we can achieve the effects the say look we can achieve the effects the president's looking for for 70% of the president's looking for for 70% of the president's looking for for 70% of the budget. budget. budget. >> That to me is a promotion >> That to me is a promotion >> That to me is a promotion >> that you know we're getting the intended >> that you know we're getting the intended >> that you know we're getting the intended effects and we've done it with effects and we've done it with effects and we've done it with threequarters of the budget. threequarters of the budget. threequarters of the budget. >> What do you think was being insinuated >> What do you think was being insinuated >> What do you think was being insinuated by someone not hitting budget that by someone not hitting budget that by someone not hitting budget that they'd basically fallen short and not they'd basically fallen short and not they'd basically fallen short and not tried as hard as they should have done? tried as hard as they should have done? tried as hard as they should have done? >> Yeah. Or you didn't know what you >> Yeah. Or you didn't know what you >> Yeah. Or you didn't know what you needed. You you thought you you you needed. You you thought you you you needed. You you thought you you you asked for way more than you needed asked for way more than you needed asked for way more than you needed >> because the request for the budget was >> because the request for the budget was >> because the request for the budget was also done by the person that didn't also done by the person that didn't also done by the person that didn't spend it. spend it. spend it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's not like here is your budget. It's >> It's not like here is your budget. It's >> It's not like here is your budget. It's here's what I want. here's what I want. here's what I want. >> Well, here's what you asked for and I >> Well, here's what you asked for and I >> Well, here's what you asked for and I got you that. got you that. got you that. >> I went and stumped for you and I got you >> I went and stumped for you and I got you >> I went and stumped for you and I got you that from the Secretary of Defense and that from the Secretary of Defense and that from the Secretary of Defense and you didn't execute it. Now I got to go you didn't execute it. Now I got to go you didn't execute it. Now I got to go tell them we've got this money we can't tell them we've got this money we can't tell them we've got this money we can't spend. spend. spend. >> You might not believe me, but this is >> You might not believe me, but this is >> You might not believe me, but this is what peak sleep optimization looks like. what peak sleep optimization looks like. what peak sleep optimization looks like. 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Right now, you can get up to $350 off the Pod 5 by going to the up to $350 off the Pod 5 by going to the up to $350 off the Pod 5 by going to the link in the description below or heading link in the description below or heading link in the description below or heading to eight.com/modernwisdom to eight.com/modernwisdom to eight.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's ei.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. What's the and modernwisdom at checkout. What's the role of AI in hacking now? role of AI in hacking now? role of AI in hacking now? Uh well I mean AI right now with you Uh well I mean AI right now with you Uh well I mean AI right now with you know the code generation piece is know the code generation piece is know the code generation piece is getting robust. I don't think it's as getting robust. I don't think it's as getting robust. I don't think it's as robust as everyone else thinks it is. I robust as everyone else thinks it is. I robust as everyone else thinks it is. I mean it's very good. There's a lot of um mean it's very good. There's a lot of um mean it's very good. There's a lot of um pluses to it. I'm obviously using it pluses to it. I'm obviously using it pluses to it. I'm obviously using it inside of our companies because it will inside of our companies because it will inside of our companies because it will the mundane code or the the less um the mundane code or the the less um the mundane code or the the less um elegant code um that's been written a elegant code um that's been written a elegant code um that's been written a million times over you can generate very million times over you can generate very million times over you can generate very quickly. It can be integrated. Someone quickly. It can be integrated. Someone quickly. It can be integrated. Someone can review it in your GitHub. the branch can review it in your GitHub. the branch can review it in your GitHub. the branch gets committed and now you've got code gets committed and now you've got code gets committed and now you've got code that would have otherwise taken a week that would have otherwise taken a week that would have otherwise taken a week or two to develop. You get to develop in or two to develop. You get to develop in or two to develop. You get to develop in an hour. Um and and in hacking it's the an hour. Um and and in hacking it's the an hour. Um and and in hacking it's the same thing. Again, I've really been same thing. Again, I've really been same thing. Again, I've really been outside of hacking for probably three outside of hacking for probably three outside of hacking for probably three years now, four years. Um, I was years now, four years. Um, I was years now, four years. Um, I was advising some friends um on the side advising some friends um on the side advising some friends um on the side with like a a small company where they with like a a small company where they with like a a small company where they would just I'd be a good idea fairy and would just I'd be a good idea fairy and would just I'd be a good idea fairy and they would tell me the targets and the they would tell me the targets and the they would tell me the targets and the and the and and the networks that they and the and and the networks that they and the and and the networks that they were looking at and then I'd recommend were looking at and then I'd recommend were looking at and then I'd recommend ideas or here's what you can do or hey ideas or here's what you can do or hey ideas or here's what you can do or hey that one uses HF comms you know you that one uses HF comms you know you that one uses HF comms you know you could you could sit and intercept these could you could sit and intercept these could you could sit and intercept these HF comms from this area go and do this. HF comms from this area go and do this. HF comms from this area go and do this. I would do that type of thing but for I would do that type of thing but for I would do that type of thing but for the large part now I'm running two and the large part now I'm running two and the large part now I'm running two and almost three companies now I've largely almost three companies now I've largely almost three companies now I've largely gotten out of that space but I would gotten out of that space but I would gotten out of that space but I would imagine it's the same thing. So what you imagine it's the same thing. So what you imagine it's the same thing. So what you would do is you would you would get a would do is you would you would get a would do is you would you would get a blob or like what would you know a blob or like what would you know a blob or like what would you know a technical dump of a particular device technical dump of a particular device technical dump of a particular device that you're you're targeting and you that you're you're targeting and you that you're you're targeting and you would feed it to an AI and it's probably would feed it to an AI and it's probably would feed it to an AI and it's probably being done in the Pentagon right now. Um being done in the Pentagon right now. Um being done in the Pentagon right now. Um anthropic or open AI or whatever there's anthropic or open AI or whatever there's anthropic or open AI or whatever there's probably a hacking version of this I probably a hacking version of this I probably a hacking version of this I would imagine. Like I said, I haven't would imagine. Like I said, I haven't would imagine. Like I said, I haven't been in there for a while. And you been in there for a while. And you been in there for a while. And you basically say, "What are the like here's basically say, "What are the like here's basically say, "What are the like here's a here's a router. Here's everything we a here's a router. Here's everything we a here's a router. Here's everything we know about it. Here's how it looks. know about it. Here's how it looks. know about it. Here's how it looks. Here's all the logic. Here's all the Here's all the logic. Here's all the Here's all the logic. Here's all the hardware. Here's the firmware. Here's hardware. Here's the firmware. Here's hardware. Here's the firmware. Here's the software that runs on it. Tell me the software that runs on it. Tell me the software that runs on it. Tell me where the chinks in the arm the [ __ ] out where the chinks in the arm the [ __ ] out where the chinks in the arm the [ __ ] out of this." of this." of this." >> Yeah. And say it'd say, "Hey, the IP >> Yeah. And say it'd say, "Hey, the IP >> Yeah. And say it'd say, "Hey, the IP tableing is messed up here. Um, they tableing is messed up here. Um, they tableing is messed up here. Um, they haven't patched that yet." Or they'd haven't patched that yet." Or they'd haven't patched that yet." Or they'd say, "This buffer can be overflowed and say, "This buffer can be overflowed and say, "This buffer can be overflowed and it will give you access. You can go it will give you access. You can go it will give you access. You can go here." or on this network diagram that here." or on this network diagram that here." or on this network diagram that you pass me um it looks like all of you pass me um it looks like all of you pass me um it looks like all of these are being um provisioned by the these are being um provisioned by the these are being um provisioned by the same IT guy um and you have historical same IT guy um and you have historical same IT guy um and you have historical reporting that says he uses password reporting that says he uses password reporting that says he uses password password for his passwords you know all password for his passwords you know all password for his passwords you know all of these things would be looked at and of these things would be looked at and of these things would be looked at and gone through um and that that target gone through um and that that target gone through um and that that target development cycle now would have been 3 development cycle now would have been 3 development cycle now would have been 3 to 6 months in the past or even a year to 6 months in the past or even a year to 6 months in the past or even a year or two you know we would get a phone and or two you know we would get a phone and or two you know we would get a phone and dump the phone a phone would become dump the phone a phone would become dump the phone a phone would become popular in the Middle East we'd dump the popular in the Middle East we'd dump the popular in the Middle East we'd dump the phone we get the EL1 one file which is phone we get the EL1 one file which is phone we get the EL1 one file which is just the to you know every as much code just the to you know every as much code just the to you know every as much code as you can get on a phone and we'd comb as you can get on a phone and we'd comb as you can get on a phone and we'd comb through it and look for the through it and look for the through it and look for the vulnerabilities that can be a year vulnerabilities that can be a year vulnerabilities that can be a year processed you know three to three months processed you know three to three months processed you know three to three months to a year easily to do that unless to a year easily to do that unless to a year easily to do that unless there's parts of the code that you know there's parts of the code that you know there's parts of the code that you know unless that the you know Apple 13 a lot unless that the you know Apple 13 a lot unless that the you know Apple 13 a lot of the same code exists in the 14 of the same code exists in the 14 of the same code exists in the 14 therefore the same exploits or hasn't therefore the same exploits or hasn't therefore the same exploits or hasn't been patched a lot of that would be been patched a lot of that would be been patched a lot of that would be there but when you're talking new phone there but when you're talking new phone there but when you're talking new phone or new architecture new ecosystem or new architecture new ecosystem or new architecture new ecosystem um easily you can spend a And now I um easily you can spend a And now I um easily you can spend a And now I think there's probably a month at most think there's probably a month at most think there's probably a month at most people would spend on these things and people would spend on these things and people would spend on these things and probably most of the work's getting done probably most of the work's getting done probably most of the work's getting done in the first 3 hours. AI powered hacking in the first 3 hours. AI powered hacking in the first 3 hours. AI powered hacking I would have guessed, you know, with I would have guessed, you know, with I would have guessed, you know, with some of the some of the some of the some of the nightmares that we've seen some of the nightmares that we've seen some of the nightmares that we've seen over the last couple of years. Uh there over the last couple of years. Uh there over the last couple of years. Uh there was a few in retail in the UK. I would was a few in retail in the UK. I would was a few in retail in the UK. I would have guessed that AI fueled hacking have guessed that AI fueled hacking have guessed that AI fueled hacking would have just like exposed all of would have just like exposed all of would have just like exposed all of these vulnerabilities. these vulnerabilities. these vulnerabilities. >> I'm sure it is. >> I'm sure it is. >> I'm sure it is. >> I I don't know. We I haven't heard many >> I I don't know. We I haven't heard many >> I I don't know. We I haven't heard many many massive stories about it. I don't many massive stories about it. I don't many massive stories about it. I don't think you would hear a lot about it. Um think you would hear a lot about it. Um think you would hear a lot about it. Um maybe uh but I'm I'm 100 because a lot maybe uh but I'm I'm 100 because a lot maybe uh but I'm I'm 100 because a lot of models so this is a bit esoteric of models so this is a bit esoteric of models so this is a bit esoteric basically comes down to training data basically comes down to training data basically comes down to training data and power. A lot of the math and a lot and power. A lot of the math and a lot and power. A lot of the math and a lot of the algorithms that AI uses or or at of the algorithms that AI uses or or at of the algorithms that AI uses or or at least inst the initial instantiations of least inst the initial instantiations of least inst the initial instantiations of it use were around since the 70s and the it use were around since the 70s and the it use were around since the 70s and the 80s. like we knew the math behind a 80s. like we knew the math behind a 80s. like we knew the math behind a convolutional neural network or or or a convolutional neural network or or or a convolutional neural network or or or a long short-term memory um neural network long short-term memory um neural network long short-term memory um neural network which is a derivative of a recurrent which is a derivative of a recurrent which is a derivative of a recurrent neural network. We knew a lot about how neural network. We knew a lot about how neural network. We knew a lot about how this stuff was going to work but we this stuff was going to work but we this stuff was going to work but we lacked two things. We lacked the compute lacked two things. We lacked the compute lacked two things. We lacked the compute which we got through like tensor which we got through like tensor which we got through like tensor processing units or GPUs and we lacked processing units or GPUs and we lacked processing units or GPUs and we lacked training data which we got through the training data which we got through the training data which we got through the internet. internet. internet. >> So um there's more to it but largely >> So um there's more to it but largely >> So um there's more to it but largely those are the three things part of the those are the three things part of the those are the three things part of the awesome sauce for training an AI model. awesome sauce for training an AI model. awesome sauce for training an AI model. So there are people out there certainly So there are people out there certainly So there are people out there certainly who are going to be able to train their who are going to be able to train their who are going to be able to train their own models and use their own code own models and use their own code own models and use their own code repositories that they've generated for repositories that they've generated for repositories that they've generated for different exploits over time and train different exploits over time and train different exploits over time and train their own internal network on their own their own internal network on their own their own internal network on their own GPU on their own server on their own GPU on their own server on their own GPU on their own server on their own basement basement basement >> without any guardrails on it. >> without any guardrails on it. >> without any guardrails on it. >> Yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't. Yes. That >> Yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't. Yes. That >> Yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't. Yes. That certainly it's being done by organized certainly it's being done by organized certainly it's being done by organized crime right now. There's no way it's not crime right now. There's no way it's not crime right now. There's no way it's not being done. being done. being done. >> What are the most common things that >> What are the most common things that >> What are the most common things that organized crime are using hacking for? organized crime are using hacking for? organized crime are using hacking for? >> Uh access to phones is a big one. um um >> Uh access to phones is a big one. um um >> Uh access to phones is a big one. um um uh uh banking uh stuff associated with uh uh banking uh stuff associated with uh uh banking uh stuff associated with Bitcoin um things associated with uh uh Bitcoin um things associated with uh uh Bitcoin um things associated with uh uh they're embedding there's a lot of it in they're embedding there's a lot of it in they're embedding there's a lot of it in betting. betting. betting. >> What do intelligence operators >> What do intelligence operators >> What do intelligence operators understand about human behavior that understand about human behavior that understand about human behavior that most civilians don't do you think? most civilians don't do you think? most civilians don't do you think? [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] >> So I'm not So I'm trained in human >> So I'm not So I'm trained in human >> So I'm not So I'm trained in human intelligence. My human intelligence intelligence. My human intelligence intelligence. My human intelligence operations that I ran were usually to operations that I ran were usually to operations that I ran were usually to enable a separate part of an operation enable a separate part of an operation enable a separate part of an operation as I alluded to before. But that being as I alluded to before. But that being as I alluded to before. But that being said, I learned how to do car pickups, said, I learned how to do car pickups, said, I learned how to do car pickups, car drop offs, uh bumps, initiate, car drop offs, uh bumps, initiate, car drop offs, uh bumps, initiate, debrief, um handle a source, all of debrief, um handle a source, all of debrief, um handle a source, all of those things. Um but it was meant for a those things. Um but it was meant for a those things. Um but it was meant for a different aspect of the mission. different aspect of the mission. different aspect of the mission. I think that really when it comes to I think that really when it comes to I think that really when it comes to what you ask the question what other what you ask the question what other what you ask the question what other people don't understand I guess I would people don't understand I guess I would people don't understand I guess I would ask you back what kind of other people ask you back what kind of other people ask you back what kind of other people because I think when you talk about because I think when you talk about because I think when you talk about somebody who's really been around the somebody who's really been around the somebody who's really been around the block Rogan has a very deep block Rogan has a very deep block Rogan has a very deep understanding of people I I sometimes he understanding of people I I sometimes he understanding of people I I sometimes he can quickly sus people out like is this can quickly sus people out like is this can quickly sus people out like is this guy full of [ __ ] is this guy angling guy full of [ __ ] is this guy angling guy full of [ __ ] is this guy angling is this guy doing this and I've seen it is this guy doing this and I've seen it is this guy doing this and I've seen it enough to where um it's a pattern I've enough to where um it's a pattern I've enough to where um it's a pattern I've now seen over the past few years where now seen over the past few years where now seen over the past few years where he's good very good at figuring out who he's good very good at figuring out who he's good very good at figuring out who good people are and who shitty people good people are and who shitty people good people are and who shitty people are. He just has that tick. are. He just has that tick. are. He just has that tick. >> It's an interesting skill. I I think I >> It's an interesting skill. I I think I >> It's an interesting skill. I I think I kind of become fascinated by rich and kind of become fascinated by rich and kind of become fascinated by rich and powerful men uh distorting reality powerful men uh distorting reality powerful men uh distorting reality around them, especially when you walk around them, especially when you walk around them, especially when you walk into a room. But when you get to very into a room. But when you get to very into a room. But when you get to very very very Yeah. That very very Yeah. That very very Yeah. That >> having spent some time around some >> having spent some time around some >> having spent some time around some pretty [ __ ] powerful and influential pretty [ __ ] powerful and influential pretty [ __ ] powerful and influential people, when they walk into a room, the people, when they walk into a room, the people, when they walk into a room, the whole vibe of the room changes. people whole vibe of the room changes. people whole vibe of the room changes. people aren't it just people aren't unable to aren't it just people aren't unable to aren't it just people aren't unable to act normally around them and then after act normally around them and then after act normally around them and then after a while a while a while >> it would be like some weird version of >> it would be like some weird version of >> it would be like some weird version of Stockholm syndrome where you go well Stockholm syndrome where you go well Stockholm syndrome where you go well this is just what the world is everybody this is just what the world is everybody this is just what the world is everybody treats me in this sort of a way isn't treats me in this sort of a way isn't treats me in this sort of a way isn't that strange and people can't hold it that strange and people can't hold it that strange and people can't hold it together together together >> when they're in the presence of somebody >> when they're in the presence of somebody >> when they're in the presence of somebody that they really admire they've got that they really admire they've got that they really admire they've got loads of respect maybe they think that loads of respect maybe they think that loads of respect maybe they think that they can get something from them or they they can get something from them or they they can get something from them or they want them to like them and or this want them to like them and or this want them to like them and or this person is maybe the gateway between them person is maybe the gateway between them person is maybe the gateway between them and a thing that they think that they on and a thing that they think that they on and a thing that they think that they on to he's so powerful and rich and cool to he's so powerful and rich and cool to he's so powerful and rich and cool and I want to be associated with him. and I want to be associated with him. and I want to be associated with him. Maybe we could be friends and and before Maybe we could be friends and and before Maybe we could be friends and and before you know it, you're the guy gobbling his you know it, you're the guy gobbling his you know it, you're the guy gobbling his words to a hot girl words to a hot girl words to a hot girl >> trying to hang with somebody in a comedy >> trying to hang with somebody in a comedy >> trying to hang with somebody in a comedy green room. green room. green room. >> Yes. And the reason I brought up Rogan >> Yes. And the reason I brought up Rogan >> Yes. And the reason I brought up Rogan was because was because was because in the mil especially in the military in the mil especially in the military in the mil especially in the military now when I was dealing with the CIA or I now when I was dealing with the CIA or I now when I was dealing with the CIA or I was dealing with the DIA who have their was dealing with the DIA who have their was dealing with the DIA who have their own um source recruitment um divisions own um source recruitment um divisions own um source recruitment um divisions um the everyone can do everyone can go um the everyone can do everyone can go um the everyone can do everyone can go to the farm or everyone can go to in the to the farm or everyone can go to in the to the farm or everyone can go to in the military the the Fort Wukas where they military the the Fort Wukas where they military the the Fort Wukas where they run the courses there um and learn how run the courses there um and learn how run the courses there um and learn how to recruit a source and the 30% of to recruit a source and the 30% of to recruit a source and the 30% of people who can do it can do it to effect people who can do it can do it to effect people who can do it can do it to effect once they've learned the how. So the the once they've learned the how. So the the once they've learned the how. So the the military breaks it down into a very military breaks it down into a very military breaks it down into a very rigored approach. And oftentimes the rigored approach. And oftentimes the rigored approach. And oftentimes the people that you're recruiting are people people that you're recruiting are people people that you're recruiting are people who have shown up to a base and said, who have shown up to a base and said, who have shown up to a base and said, "Hey, I think my brother's gonna blow "Hey, I think my brother's gonna blow "Hey, I think my brother's gonna blow some car up or I think some car up or I think some car up or I think >> this x, y, or z." And then they'll say, >> this x, y, or z." And then they'll say, >> this x, y, or z." And then they'll say, "Oh, that person is a lead. Let's go "Oh, that person is a lead. Let's go "Oh, that person is a lead. Let's go recruit that person." And so most people recruit that person." And so most people recruit that person." And so most people can do that. Now, there's a separate can do that. Now, there's a separate can do that. Now, there's a separate class. class. class. >> There's there's categories of human >> There's there's categories of human >> There's there's categories of human intelligence sources, and those are intelligence sources, and those are intelligence sources, and those are derived from what their placement and derived from what their placement and derived from what their placement and access is. So, you know, a guy who is a access is. So, you know, a guy who is a access is. So, you know, a guy who is a gate guard at an IBM is like lower cat gate guard at an IBM is like lower cat gate guard at an IBM is like lower cat 3, cat 4, very low source, but he can 3, cat 4, very low source, but he can 3, cat 4, very low source, but he can give you access or he could get you a give you access or he could get you a give you access or he could get you a security card or he could get you X, Y, security card or he could get you X, Y, security card or he could get you X, Y, or Z. So, there's value val it's or Z. So, there's value val it's or Z. So, there's value val it's valuable. Um, you just pay that guy off. valuable. Um, you just pay that guy off. valuable. Um, you just pay that guy off. And then there's cat 3, cat 2, cat 1, And then there's cat 3, cat 2, cat 1, And then there's cat 3, cat 2, cat 1, cat one sources would be like, I'm cat one sources would be like, I'm cat one sources would be like, I'm recruiting the secretary of defense for recruiting the secretary of defense for recruiting the secretary of defense for the, you know, British government or the, you know, British government or the, you know, British government or whatever you guys call him, defense whatever you guys call him, defense whatever you guys call him, defense secretary of defense, prime minister, secretary of defense, prime minister, secretary of defense, prime minister, whatever that person's called. I'm whatever that person's called. I'm whatever that person's called. I'm recruiting that guy. That's a level one recruiting that guy. That's a level one recruiting that guy. That's a level one source. So that level one source source. So that level one source source. So that level one source requires an artisan, somebody who really requires an artisan, somebody who really requires an artisan, somebody who really knows his craft and someone who can knows his craft and someone who can knows his craft and someone who can really create circumstances and really create circumstances and really create circumstances and understand a target. But he also, the understand a target. But he also, the understand a target. But he also, the reason I brought up Rogan is because reason I brought up Rogan is because reason I brought up Rogan is because they also have that thing where they can they also have that thing where they can they also have that thing where they can quickly deduce a person and and put them quickly deduce a person and and put them quickly deduce a person and and put them down and understand exactly what down and understand exactly what down and understand exactly what motivates this person, have a very good motivates this person, have a very good motivates this person, have a very good idea of what motivates this person, um idea of what motivates this person, um idea of what motivates this person, um the tactics that they're going to use, the tactics that they're going to use, the tactics that they're going to use, how they're going to keep them how they're going to keep them how they're going to keep them interested, and they can do that with interested, and they can do that with interested, and they can do that with like a 15-minute conversation. insanely like a 15-minute conversation. insanely like a 15-minute conversation. insanely strong theory of mind. strong theory of mind. strong theory of mind. >> Yes. And and and and and rigorous. It's >> Yes. And and and and and rigorous. It's >> Yes. And and and and and rigorous. It's it's one of those things where you have it's one of those things where you have it's one of those things where you have to have thema and the animus. You have to have thema and the animus. You have to have thema and the animus. You have to have the structure to follow the to have the structure to follow the to have the structure to follow the cycle and you have to have the diligence cycle and you have to have the diligence cycle and you have to have the diligence and the patience and the and the all of and the patience and the and the all of and the patience and the and the all of those virtues because deviating from the those virtues because deviating from the those virtues because deviating from the cycle that's been around for a thousand cycle that's been around for a thousand cycle that's been around for a thousand years will get you killed. But then he's years will get you killed. But then he's years will get you killed. But then he's also got to have the artistry or thema also got to have the artistry or thema also got to have the artistry or thema to be able to navigate the chaos and and to be able to navigate the chaos and and to be able to navigate the chaos and and get thrown all different types of get thrown all different types of get thrown all different types of punches or this thing happens or he gets punches or this thing happens or he gets punches or this thing happens or he gets rolled up at a checkpoint or he is now rolled up at a checkpoint or he is now rolled up at a checkpoint or he is now getting recruited and this has turned getting recruited and this has turned getting recruited and this has turned into a CI operation. And to navigate all into a CI operation. And to navigate all into a CI operation. And to navigate all of those things, you need somebody who's of those things, you need somebody who's of those things, you need somebody who's got real command of their total self who got real command of their total self who got real command of their total self who can who can deal with the rigor and and can who can deal with the rigor and and can who can deal with the rigor and and apply all that, but then can play jazz apply all that, but then can play jazz apply all that, but then can play jazz when it's needed. Yeah. and then have when it's needed. Yeah. and then have when it's needed. Yeah. and then have the wisdom uh to do all of those things the wisdom uh to do all of those things the wisdom uh to do all of those things I talked about. And most guys at that I talked about. And most guys at that I talked about. And most guys at that point are 40 or 45 before they have point are 40 or 45 before they have point are 40 or 45 before they have that. But man, this these guys, you that. But man, this these guys, you that. But man, this these guys, you know, you get three of these guys, you know, you get three of these guys, you know, you get three of these guys, you can take over a country. can take over a country. can take over a country. >> Uh you know, you said about cat four, >> Uh you know, you said about cat four, >> Uh you know, you said about cat four, cat 3, cat 2, cat 1, cat one would be cat 3, cat 2, cat 1, cat one would be cat 3, cat 2, cat 1, cat one would be super super high value target. super super high value target. super super high value target. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. According to my Whoop, I've tracked According to my Whoop, I've tracked According to my Whoop, I've tracked nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the nearly 2,000 days of my life. 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I was thinking about how serial killers seem to not have proliferated in killers seem to not have proliferated in killers seem to not have proliferated in the same way largely because of the same way largely because of the same way largely because of forensics, DNA, fingerprinting, forensics, DNA, fingerprinting, forensics, DNA, fingerprinting, digital tracking. Do you think it's digital tracking. Do you think it's digital tracking. Do you think it's likely likely likely now? Do you think it it is less likely now? Do you think it it is less likely now? Do you think it it is less likely that cat one people of interest are that cat one people of interest are that cat one people of interest are going to be turned for the same reason going to be turned for the same reason going to be turned for the same reason that it's less likely that there are that it's less likely that there are that it's less likely that there are longstanding serial killers that they longstanding serial killers that they longstanding serial killers that they are realizing I'm probably going to get are realizing I'm probably going to get are realizing I'm probably going to get caught. There's more of a digital caught. There's more of a digital caught. There's more of a digital footprint. It's hard. footprint. It's hard. footprint. It's hard. >> You cooked that up just now >> You cooked that up just now >> You cooked that up just now >> while we were talking. Yeah, that's >> while we were talking. Yeah, that's >> while we were talking. Yeah, that's interesting. Uh interesting. Uh interesting. Uh >> you know that the analogies I'm trying >> you know that the analogies I'm trying >> you know that the analogies I'm trying to make there. to make there. to make there. >> Yeah. No, I totally understand it. It's >> Yeah. No, I totally understand it. It's >> Yeah. No, I totally understand it. It's just great. uh like I would I've only just great. uh like I would I've only just great. uh like I would I've only been thinking about what's happening been thinking about what's happening been thinking about what's happening right here and I haven't my my CPU is right here and I haven't my my CPU is right here and I haven't my my CPU is limited so I'm not I can't go limited so I'm not I can't go limited so I'm not I can't go >> I've got no I've I've got low processing >> I've got no I've I've got low processing >> I've got no I've I've got low processing power but very high RAM [laughter] >> very good um I I think so certainly >> very good um I I think so certainly handling cat one it has gotten more handling cat one it has gotten more handling cat one it has gotten more restricted but then what h ends up restricted but then what h ends up restricted but then what h ends up having or having to change is you have having or having to change is you have having or having to change is you have to handle your cover differently so all to handle your cover differently so all to handle your cover differently so all of these operations you're in cover when of these operations you're in cover when of these operations you're in cover when you're running these operations. And so you're running these operations. And so you're running these operations. And so the cover now needs to become instead of the cover now needs to become instead of the cover now needs to become instead of a guy I met at a bar, um you're going to a guy I met at a bar, um you're going to a guy I met at a bar, um you're going to set up a new company in this country set up a new company in this country set up a new company in this country adjacent to whatever sector this adjacent to whatever sector this adjacent to whatever sector this person's in, person's in, person's in, >> become the CEO of that company >> become the CEO of that company >> become the CEO of that company >> and the government will spend a ton of >> and the government will spend a ton of >> and the government will spend a ton of money setting setting that up. money setting setting that up. money setting setting that up. >> Okay. So you're not you're not turning >> Okay. So you're not you're not turning >> Okay. So you're not you're not turning people that are already there. You're people that are already there. You're people that are already there. You're creating people that are going to become creating people that are going to become creating people that are going to become it. it. it. >> Yes. or or you're or you you're say say >> Yes. or or you're or you you're say say >> Yes. or or you're or you you're say say you're in charge of a let's just run a you're in charge of a let's just run a you're in charge of a let's just run a thought experiment or a hypothetical. thought experiment or a hypothetical. thought experiment or a hypothetical. Say you're in charge of a new type of um Say you're in charge of a new type of um Say you're in charge of a new type of um GPU development company in Abu Dhabi. GPU development company in Abu Dhabi. GPU development company in Abu Dhabi. >> Um and I want to recruit you. So in the >> Um and I want to recruit you. So in the >> Um and I want to recruit you. So in the past it might have been we became good past it might have been we became good past it might have been we became good friends from a bar and we you know we friends from a bar and we you know we friends from a bar and we you know we your girlfriend knew my girlfriend and your girlfriend knew my girlfriend and your girlfriend knew my girlfriend and we went out and here's how this happened we went out and here's how this happened we went out and here's how this happened and then when you're you know the and then when you're you know the and then when you're you know the Chinese are buying your GPUs which is Chinese are buying your GPUs which is Chinese are buying your GPUs which is why I'm going after you. I want to cut why I'm going after you. I want to cut why I'm going after you. I want to cut off the head of the dragon here and not off the head of the dragon here and not off the head of the dragon here and not give the Chinese access to your GPUs and give the Chinese access to your GPUs and give the Chinese access to your GPUs and I want you to sell them to the I want you to sell them to the I want you to sell them to the Americans. Let's say that's what's going Americans. Let's say that's what's going Americans. Let's say that's what's going on. on. on. >> The Chinese would come in and say, "Hey, >> The Chinese would come in and say, "Hey, >> The Chinese would come in and say, "Hey, who the [ __ ] this Bill Thompson guy? who the [ __ ] this Bill Thompson guy? who the [ __ ] this Bill Thompson guy? How much do you know about him?" Blah How much do you know about him?" Blah How much do you know about him?" Blah blah blah. They'll be so proactive blah blah. They'll be so proactive blah blah. They'll be so proactive because they'll be watching you. If because they'll be watching you. If because they'll be watching you. If you're a critical supply choke point for you're a critical supply choke point for you're a critical supply choke point for them, they will have been watching you them, they will have been watching you them, they will have been watching you from day one before they even start from day one before they even start from day one before they even start selling for buying from you. They'll selling for buying from you. They'll selling for buying from you. They'll know your ins and outs. know your ins and outs. know your ins and outs. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> That's what happens when you deal with >> That's what happens when you deal with >> That's what happens when you deal with the Chinese. Um, and so they'll know all the Chinese. Um, and so they'll know all the Chinese. Um, and so they'll know all of this. So they'll go to you, you'll of this. So they'll go to you, you'll of this. So they'll go to you, you'll get a meeting with someone, someone will get a meeting with someone, someone will get a meeting with someone, someone will show up in your office and be like, show up in your office and be like, show up in your office and be like, "Hey, I'm so and so from so and so. You "Hey, I'm so and so from so and so. You "Hey, I'm so and so from so and so. You deal with the government, communist, you deal with the government, communist, you deal with the government, communist, you know, people of Republic of China. Um, know, people of Republic of China. Um, know, people of Republic of China. Um, we've noticed you've been hanging out we've noticed you've been hanging out we've noticed you've been hanging out with this bill guy. You know, you need with this bill guy. You know, you need with this bill guy. You know, you need to shut that like what is his story? He to shut that like what is his story? He to shut that like what is his story? He just showed up blah blah blah blah just showed up blah blah blah blah just showed up blah blah blah blah blah." So now how this changes is blah." So now how this changes is blah." So now how this changes is because we can't change the technical because we can't change the technical because we can't change the technical vectors and the collection capabilities vectors and the collection capabilities vectors and the collection capabilities and all those things. So how this would and all those things. So how this would and all those things. So how this would change is instead of it happening and change is instead of it happening and change is instead of it happening and we're friends with because of we're friends with because of we're friends with because of girlfriends I will go into that country girlfriends I will go into that country girlfriends I will go into that country and set up either competitive or and set up either competitive or and set up either competitive or adjacent technology adjacent technology adjacent technology >> fully funded by the US government >> fully funded by the US government >> fully funded by the US government >> through cutouts and other things and and >> through cutouts and other things and and >> through cutouts and other things and and either be on the chief of staff or staff either be on the chief of staff or staff either be on the chief of staff or staff or whatever and we'll I'll make my or whatever and we'll I'll make my or whatever and we'll I'll make my product that you need slightly cheaper product that you need slightly cheaper product that you need slightly cheaper maybe as a transistor or something like maybe as a transistor or something like maybe as a transistor or something like that. You'll come to me to say hey I've that. You'll come to me to say hey I've that. You'll come to me to say hey I've noticed that you're selling this noticed that you're selling this noticed that you're selling this microchip here for half the cost. I need microchip here for half the cost. I need microchip here for half the cost. I need some. I'll be like, "Oh, great. Yeah, some. I'll be like, "Oh, great. Yeah, some. I'll be like, "Oh, great. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I've blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I've blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I've got uh what's called cover for action got uh what's called cover for action got uh what's called cover for action and cover for status." And so when the and cover for status." And so when the and cover for status." And so when the Chinese come to you, be like, "Well, Chinese come to you, be like, "Well, Chinese come to you, be like, "Well, yeah, I'm buying it from him. He runs yeah, I'm buying it from him. He runs yeah, I'm buying it from him. He runs this company and this company's got a this company and this company's got a this company and this company's got a cheaper one, and that allows me to make cheaper one, and that allows me to make cheaper one, and that allows me to make it cheaper for you." So the Chinese are it cheaper for you." So the Chinese are it cheaper for you." So the Chinese are cool, you're cool, and now I'm over cool, you're cool, and now I'm over cool, you're cool, and now I'm over here, here, here, >> more sophisticated cover. >> more sophisticated cover. >> more sophisticated cover. >> Yeah. So far more backstopped is what >> Yeah. So far more backstopped is what >> Yeah. So far more backstopped is what it's called. it's called. it's called. >> More backstopped, right? >> More backstopped, right? >> More backstopped, right? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Who do you think's the most surveiled >> Who do you think's the most surveiled >> Who do you think's the most surveiled human on the planet? human on the planet? human on the planet? Elon Musk. I'd probably say at least Elon Musk. I'd probably say at least Elon Musk. I'd probably say at least there there's a laundry list of people there there's a laundry list of people there there's a laundry list of people that I would want to recruit and he that I would want to recruit and he that I would want to recruit and he would be one of them. would be one of them. would be one of them. >> Who else would be on it? >> Who else would be on it? >> Who else would be on it? >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh some of them I know, so I don't want to some of them I know, so I don't want to some of them I know, so I don't want to say their names. Um who else would I be say their names. Um who else would I be say their names. Um who else would I be going? going? going? >> An interesting list that you're going to >> An interesting list that you're going to >> An interesting list that you're going to give us of people who you don't know. give us of people who you don't know. give us of people who you don't know. >> Yeah. Who I don't know. [laughter] >> Yeah. Who I don't know. [laughter] >> Yeah. Who I don't know. [laughter] Um uh let's see. Uh Family of Trump Um uh let's see. Uh Family of Trump Um uh let's see. Uh Family of Trump would be another one I would be looking would be another one I would be looking would be another one I would be looking at. It's a big [ __ ] family. So, at. It's a big [ __ ] family. So, at. It's a big [ __ ] family. So, >> yes, big [ __ ] family. Um, >> yes, big [ __ ] family. Um, >> yes, big [ __ ] family. Um, I would be, you think anybody in the I would be, you think anybody in the I would be, you think anybody in the tech sector. It also depends on, you're tech sector. It also depends on, you're tech sector. It also depends on, you're asking me this, who am I recruiting for? asking me this, who am I recruiting for? asking me this, who am I recruiting for? >> You know, if I'm recruiting for the >> You know, if I'm recruiting for the >> You know, if I'm recruiting for the Chinese, that would be one set of Chinese, that would be one set of Chinese, that would be one set of people. If I'm recruiting for the people. If I'm recruiting for the people. If I'm recruiting for the Russian, that'd be another set of Russian, that'd be another set of Russian, that'd be another set of people. people. people. >> Original original question was just >> Original original question was just >> Original original question was just like, of all humans on the planet, 7 like, of all humans on the planet, 7 like, of all humans on the planet, 7 billion, whatever it is now, 8 billion. billion, whatever it is now, 8 billion. billion, whatever it is now, 8 billion. Uh, Uh, Uh, who has got the most amount of eyeballs who has got the most amount of eyeballs who has got the most amount of eyeballs looking at them? digitally. looking at them? digitally. looking at them? digitally. >> Yeah. So, as you restate that, I >> Yeah. So, as you restate that, I >> Yeah. So, as you restate that, I actually realize I'm wrong. I'd probably actually realize I'm wrong. I'd probably actually realize I'm wrong. I'd probably want to recruit people who work for want to recruit people who work for want to recruit people who work for Elon. I wouldn't want to recruit Elon. Elon. I wouldn't want to recruit Elon. Elon. I wouldn't want to recruit Elon. I'd want to recruit someone close to him I'd want to recruit someone close to him I'd want to recruit someone close to him because I talked about accessibility because I talked about accessibility because I talked about accessibility being one of the vectors. When you're being one of the vectors. When you're being one of the vectors. When you're doing a target, very inaccess, even if doing a target, very inaccess, even if doing a target, very inaccess, even if I'm friends with him, he's inaccessible. I'm friends with him, he's inaccessible. I'm friends with him, he's inaccessible. I would never be able to get him to show I would never be able to get him to show I would never be able to get him to show up for a meet, like to debrief or to get up for a meet, like to debrief or to get up for a meet, like to debrief or to get any information from them. Um, so you'd any information from them. Um, so you'd any information from them. Um, so you'd want to recruit someone around them. And want to recruit someone around them. And want to recruit someone around them. And and that's the same thing, you know, and that's the same thing, you know, and that's the same thing, you know, that that's the thing that's always kind that that's the thing that's always kind that that's the thing that's always kind of um made me scratch my head about of um made me scratch my head about of um made me scratch my head about Epstein. Um, Epstein. Um, Epstein. Um, uh, I I would never uh, I I would never uh, I I would never I would never want people brought up I would never want people brought up I would never want people brought up Clinton and saying Clinton's now Clinton and saying Clinton's now Clinton and saying Clinton's now associated with Epstein. I'm sure there associated with Epstein. I'm sure there associated with Epstein. I'm sure there were nefarious crazy things going on were nefarious crazy things going on were nefarious crazy things going on over there. Clinton's not a person I'd over there. Clinton's not a person I'd over there. Clinton's not a person I'd ever want to recruit. Clinton would be a ever want to recruit. Clinton would be a ever want to recruit. Clinton would be a nightmare of a target to try to manage nightmare of a target to try to manage nightmare of a target to try to manage or a source to try to manage. He's not or a source to try to manage. He's not or a source to try to manage. He's not someone you recruit. He's also not someone you recruit. He's also not someone you recruit. He's also not someone you leverage. You you could someone you leverage. You you could someone you leverage. You you could maybe Epstein being an idiot wanted to maybe Epstein being an idiot wanted to maybe Epstein being an idiot wanted to set up all of these things and and use set up all of these things and and use set up all of these things and and use them as leverage against them. That them as leverage against them. That them as leverage against them. That might be one play. But as far as saying might be one play. But as far as saying might be one play. But as far as saying like Israel's involved and like these like Israel's involved and like these like Israel's involved and like these things, possible. things, possible. things, possible. >> One of the most interesting ideas I've >> One of the most interesting ideas I've >> One of the most interesting ideas I've heard about Epstein was uh a friend who heard about Epstein was uh a friend who heard about Epstein was uh a friend who spoke to somebody in Israeli spoke to somebody in Israeli spoke to somebody in Israeli intelligence and he this guy said, "Do intelligence and he this guy said, "Do intelligence and he this guy said, "Do you know how [ __ ] insulting it is you know how [ __ ] insulting it is you know how [ __ ] insulting it is that people say that we would have that people say that we would have that people say that we would have recruited that guy?" Yes. recruited that guy?" Yes. recruited that guy?" Yes. >> After he was already popped. >> After he was already popped. >> After he was already popped. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> For soliciting sex from a minor. >> For soliciting sex from a minor. >> For soliciting sex from a minor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and that was the I don't know. The >> Um and that was the I don't know. The >> Um and that was the I don't know. The Epstein rabbit hole goes so [ __ ] Epstein rabbit hole goes so [ __ ] Epstein rabbit hole goes so [ __ ] deep. deep. deep. >> Oh, no. Don't get me wrong. It's so >> Oh, no. Don't get me wrong. It's so >> Oh, no. Don't get me wrong. It's so There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. >> Very squirly. And that would be great >> Very squirly. And that would be great >> Very squirly. And that would be great cover. The fact that he's so obvious as cover. The fact that he's so obvious as cover. The fact that he's so obvious as to not be a normal standard candidate to not be a normal standard candidate to not be a normal standard candidate for being an intelligence operative for being an intelligence operative for being an intelligence operative would maybe be great cover for why he would maybe be great cover for why he would maybe be great cover for why he might. might. might. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh he was like, "How >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh he was like, "How >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh he was like, "How unsophisticated and ungraceful do you unsophisticated and ungraceful do you unsophisticated and ungraceful do you think we are that we would recruit that think we are that we would recruit that think we are that we would recruit that guy, this very flash, very lavish, very guy, this very flash, very lavish, very guy, this very flash, very lavish, very public facing dude." public facing dude." public facing dude." >> And what are you going to recruit him >> And what are you going to recruit him >> And what are you going to recruit him with? He's rich. Anything that you would with? He's rich. Anything that you would with? He's rich. Anything that you would use. use. use. >> The argument would be that the the money >> The argument would be that the the money >> The argument would be that the the money wasn't his, that the money had come wasn't his, that the money had come wasn't his, that the money had come from. from. from. >> That's right. That's right. That's >> That's right. That's right. That's >> That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Um, it's just right. That's right. Um, it's just right. That's right. Um, it's just >> still it's an interesting it's it's an >> still it's an interesting it's it's an >> still it's an interesting it's it's an interesting argument and it makes sense interesting argument and it makes sense interesting argument and it makes sense when um this guy's obviously a fed or when um this guy's obviously a fed or when um this guy's obviously a fed or this guy's glowing or whatever. Uh, the this guy's glowing or whatever. Uh, the this guy's glowing or whatever. Uh, the >> like how glowy somebody looks is >> like how glowy somebody looks is >> like how glowy somebody looks is probably proportionate to how visible probably proportionate to how visible probably proportionate to how visible they are too. they are too. they are too. >> Like if somebody's very visible, they're >> Like if somebody's very visible, they're >> Like if somebody's very visible, they're going to get more accusations of being going to get more accusations of being going to get more accusations of being whatever controlled opposition or a fed, whatever controlled opposition or a fed, whatever controlled opposition or a fed, whatever. But you go, whatever. But you go, whatever. But you go, >> would you really want that person? >> would you really want that person? >> would you really want that person? >> No. It's the best argument. I have no >> No. It's the best argument. I have no >> No. It's the best argument. I have no [ __ ] idea whether Nick Fuentes is a [ __ ] idea whether Nick Fuentes is a [ __ ] idea whether Nick Fuentes is a Fed or not, but it's the best argument Fed or not, but it's the best argument Fed or not, but it's the best argument for why Nick would be a horrible for why Nick would be a horrible for why Nick would be a horrible candidate. Like, do you want someone candidate. Like, do you want someone candidate. Like, do you want someone that's being watched by like hundreds of that's being watched by like hundreds of that's being watched by like hundreds of thousands of people a day? Like, is that thousands of people a day? Like, is that thousands of people a day? Like, is that that's your guy? Although Anderson that's your guy? Although Anderson that's your guy? Although Anderson Cooper was that rolled up. So, this is Cooper was that rolled up. So, this is Cooper was that rolled up. So, this is the thing, man. For every example, the thing, man. For every example, the thing, man. For every example, there's a counter example. Nick, [ __ ] there's a counter example. Nick, [ __ ] there's a counter example. Nick, [ __ ] it. Nick Fontes is a Fed. it. Nick Fontes is a Fed. it. Nick Fontes is a Fed. >> It all depends on what you can It all >> It all depends on what you can It all >> It all depends on what you can It all depends on what you get from them, I depends on what you get from them, I depends on what you get from them, I think. I mean, if I had I'll put it this think. I mean, if I had I'll put it this think. I mean, if I had I'll put it this way. Okay. If I had to place money, he's way. Okay. If I had to place money, he's way. Okay. If I had to place money, he's getting money from Israel. getting money from Israel. getting money from Israel. >> If I had to bet, I would say he's >> If I had to bet, I would say he's >> If I had to bet, I would say he's getting money from Israel. getting money from Israel. getting money from Israel. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> Strong man. This helps them in so many >> Strong man. This helps them in so many >> Strong man. This helps them in so many ways to have people like him running ways to have people like him running ways to have people like him running around that he might not know he's around that he might not know he's around that he might not know he's getting money from them, but you need getting money from them, but you need getting money from them, but you need enemies. It's kind of like racism. enemies. It's kind of like racism. enemies. It's kind of like racism. Who's funded the most of the KKK? And Who's funded the most of the KKK? And Who's funded the most of the KKK? And who shows up in the chat rooms when the who shows up in the chat rooms when the who shows up in the chat rooms when the KKK is having a meeting? KKK is having a meeting? KKK is having a meeting? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> The federal government. >> The federal government. >> The federal government. >> Okay. Why? >> Okay. Why? >> Okay. Why? >> Because they need an enemy. They need a >> Because they need an enemy. They need a >> Because they need an enemy. They need a straw man. They prop up. There's no straw man. They prop up. There's no straw man. They prop up. There's no white supremacy is like real white white supremacy is like real white white supremacy is like real white supremacists. Yeah, there are some out supremacists. Yeah, there are some out supremacists. Yeah, there are some out in like rural Alabama or something like in like rural Alabama or something like in like rural Alabama or something like that. But as far as like tens of that. But as far as like tens of that. But as far as like tens of thousands like they would lead us to thousands like they would lead us to thousands like they would lead us to believe and all of these things, most believe and all of these things, most believe and all of these things, most times when you look into these things, times when you look into these things, times when you look into these things, there was Fed involvement. Like even there was Fed involvement. Like even there was Fed involvement. Like even again January 6, very hot topic, there again January 6, very hot topic, there again January 6, very hot topic, there were feds in that audience that were were feds in that audience that were were feds in that audience that were that you know look going back to that that you know look going back to that that you know look going back to that Gulf of Tonkan. Anytime we needed Gulf of Tonkan. Anytime we needed Gulf of Tonkan. Anytime we needed motivation to use government money, motivation to use government money, motivation to use government money, taxpayer money to launch an operation to taxpayer money to launch an operation to taxpayer money to launch an operation to achieve an effect, the government's achieve an effect, the government's achieve an effect, the government's almost always involved in every part of almost always involved in every part of almost always involved in every part of the nexus when it comes to certain the nexus when it comes to certain the nexus when it comes to certain things. things. things. >> Just before you keep going, can you just >> Just before you keep going, can you just >> Just before you keep going, can you just pop that on for me, please? [laughter] pop that on for me, please? [laughter] pop that on for me, please? [laughter] >> What is this for? >> What is this for? >> What is this for? >> This it's it's it's it's when you're >> This it's it's it's it's when you're >> This it's it's it's it's when you're it's when you're pushing out into the it's when you're pushing out into the it's when you're pushing out into the deeper recesses of of theorizing. It's a deeper recesses of of theorizing. It's a deeper recesses of of theorizing. It's a It's a I mean I I would have imagined as It's a I mean I I would have imagined as It's a I mean I I would have imagined as a a a >> intelligence agency uh person that you >> intelligence agency uh person that you >> intelligence agency uh person that you would have understood what this is. It's would have understood what this is. It's would have understood what this is. It's a disguise bill. a disguise bill. a disguise bill. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Go on. >> Go on. >> Go on. >> A lots of these things when you look >> A lots of these things when you look >> A lots of these things when you look when you really get down to the when you really get down to the when you really get down to the nitty-gritty. The government This is so nitty-gritty. The government This is so nitty-gritty. The government This is so ridiculous. The government's so involved ridiculous. The government's so involved ridiculous. The government's so involved in most of these things and lots of in most of these things and lots of in most of these things and lots of times here's the way the FBI will look times here's the way the FBI will look times here's the way the FBI will look at something. We've got a whole division at something. We've got a whole division at something. We've got a whole division that's focused on uh on on I can't even that's focused on uh on on I can't even that's focused on uh on on I can't even think. [laughter] think. [laughter] think. [laughter] >> All right. All right. >> All right. All right. >> All right. All right. >> We've got a whole We've got a whole >> We've got a whole We've got a whole >> We've got a whole We've got a whole division that's focused on threats to division that's focused on threats to division that's focused on threats to the homeland. And 25% of this budget is the homeland. And 25% of this budget is the homeland. And 25% of this budget is for white supremacy. for white supremacy. for white supremacy. >> The Biden administration will throw$100 >> The Biden administration will throw$100 >> The Biden administration will throw$100 to$2 million$100 or $200 million at to$2 million$100 or $200 million at to$2 million$100 or $200 million at countering white supremacy so that he countering white supremacy so that he countering white supremacy so that he gets to go out and have talking points. gets to go out and have talking points. gets to go out and have talking points. But then the FBI gets on the ground like But then the FBI gets on the ground like But then the FBI gets on the ground like there's really no white supremacy. So there's really no white supremacy. So there's really no white supremacy. So then the FBI will be like, "Hey," and then the FBI will be like, "Hey," and then the FBI will be like, "Hey," and I'm not saying this is happening now, I'm not saying this is happening now, I'm not saying this is happening now, but this certainly happened back in the but this certainly happened back in the but this certainly happened back in the day. I know it h it happened back in the day. I know it h it happened back in the day. I know it h it happened back in the day. There would be a KKK meeting either day. There would be a KKK meeting either day. There would be a KKK meeting either on the dark web or on on the white web on the dark web or on on the white web on the dark web or on on the white web or open web or in an area or whatever. or open web or in an area or whatever. or open web or in an area or whatever. 60% of the people showing up would be 60% of the people showing up would be 60% of the people showing up would be feds. feds. feds. Why? Because they have a whole division. Why? Because they have a whole division. Why? Because they have a whole division. And all of these jobs are organized And all of these jobs are organized And all of these jobs are organized around defeating white supremacy. And if around defeating white supremacy. And if around defeating white supremacy. And if you can't find white supremacy, it's you can't find white supremacy, it's you can't find white supremacy, it's like Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton made his like Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton made his like Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton made his bones on helping black people back in bones on helping black people back in bones on helping black people back in the day, but once racism in the 90s the day, but once racism in the 90s the day, but once racism in the 90s washed up, he had to go searching for washed up, he had to go searching for washed up, he had to go searching for racism racism racism >> in order to keep his stick going. Um, >> in order to keep his stick going. Um, >> in order to keep his stick going. Um, that's the problem with government is that's the problem with government is that's the problem with government is that they create they're self-licking that they create they're self-licking that they create they're self-licking ice cream cones in that they create the ice cream cones in that they create the ice cream cones in that they create the incentive structure, but once they've incentive structure, but once they've incentive structure, but once they've won, they can't go away. None of these won, they can't go away. None of these won, they can't go away. None of these guys are get none of these useful idiots guys are get none of these useful idiots guys are get none of these useful idiots will get rid of their jobs. They're will get rid of their jobs. They're will get rid of their jobs. They're going to go out and create the thing going to go out and create the thing going to go out and create the thing they were developed to counter in order they were developed to counter in order they were developed to counter in order to keep the purse strings going. to keep the purse strings going. to keep the purse strings going. >> A lot of people have this same issue >> A lot of people have this same issue >> A lot of people have this same issue with big pharma. with big pharma. with big pharma. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's the same. It's the same. >> Yeah. It's the same. It's the same. >> Yeah. It's the same. It's the same. >> Keep you fat. >> Keep you fat. >> Keep you fat. >> It's the same dynamic. Yeah. >> It's the same dynamic. Yeah. >> It's the same dynamic. Yeah. >> Big pharma wants you taking type 2 >> Big pharma wants you taking type 2 >> Big pharma wants you taking type 2 diabetes shots in your stomach or diabetes shots in your stomach or diabetes shots in your stomach or whatever you have to do for type two whatever you have to do for type two whatever you have to do for type two diabetes. They won't tell you to fast. diabetes. They won't tell you to fast. diabetes. They won't tell you to fast. They won't tell you to lose weight. You They won't tell you to lose weight. You They won't tell you to lose weight. You got heart problems or cholesterol got heart problems or cholesterol got heart problems or cholesterol problems. They're not going to tell you problems. They're not going to tell you problems. They're not going to tell you to lose weight and go on a clean diet. to lose weight and go on a clean diet. to lose weight and go on a clean diet. They're going to give you statins. This They're going to give you statins. This They're going to give you statins. This is the interesting thing here is uh just is the interesting thing here is uh just is the interesting thing here is uh just changing the incentives or coming up changing the incentives or coming up changing the incentives or coming up with a better solution. Like this is why with a better solution. Like this is why with a better solution. Like this is why it's cool and and and noble and I love it's cool and and and noble and I love it's cool and and and noble and I love when people want to kind of flip the when people want to kind of flip the when people want to kind of flip the entire system over, but I don't think entire system over, but I don't think entire system over, but I don't think that it's as realistic as just coming up that it's as realistic as just coming up that it's as realistic as just coming up with a better alternative that aligns with a better alternative that aligns with a better alternative that aligns the incentives toward what you want. For the incentives toward what you want. For the incentives toward what you want. For instance, Ompic plays within the rules instance, Ompic plays within the rules instance, Ompic plays within the rules of big farmer but gets the outcome that of big farmer but gets the outcome that of big farmer but gets the outcome that you want, which is preferable, you want, which is preferable, you want, which is preferable, >> right? It it it realizes that, hey, >> right? It it it realizes that, hey, >> right? It it it realizes that, hey, maybe we can try and take down these maybe we can try and take down these maybe we can try and take down these greedy corporations that are trying to greedy corporations that are trying to greedy corporations that are trying to capitalize on people's bad health so capitalize on people's bad health so capitalize on people's bad health so that they can keep them addicted or or that they can keep them addicted or or that they can keep them addicted or or dependent on medications. dependent on medications. dependent on medications. Roger that. However, Roger that. However, Roger that. However, if you can just get a medication that if you can just get a medication that if you can just get a medication that gets the outcome that you want that has gets the outcome that you want that has gets the outcome that you want that has minimal side effects through using minimal side effects through using minimal side effects through using innovation, you indoctrinate cuz big innovation, you indoctrinate cuz big innovation, you indoctrinate cuz big farmer doesn't care about what the farmer doesn't care about what the farmer doesn't care about what the outcome is. What they care about outcome is. What they care about outcome is. What they care about presumably using this if if this is true presumably using this if if this is true presumably using this if if this is true that they care about is profits. Okay. that they care about is profits. Okay. that they care about is profits. Okay. So, just that's their rule set. So, just that's their rule set. So, just that's their rule set. >> How can you get them to continue to make >> How can you get them to continue to make >> How can you get them to continue to make profits? profits? profits? >> Mhm. whilst also >> Mhm. whilst also >> Mhm. whilst also making people healthier or helping making people healthier or helping making people healthier or helping people to lose weight. You the long-term people to lose weight. You the long-term people to lose weight. You the long-term studies on all these GLPs and stuff studies on all these GLPs and stuff studies on all these GLPs and stuff aren't out yet, but aren't out yet, but aren't out yet, but >> that to me seems like a much a much >> that to me seems like a much a much >> that to me seems like a much a much quicker way to do it. But as you've said quicker way to do it. But as you've said quicker way to do it. But as you've said there, this sort of intersecting there, this sort of intersecting there, this sort of intersecting [ __ ] endless spiral of well this [ __ ] endless spiral of well this [ __ ] endless spiral of well this thing that you thought happened maybe thing that you thought happened maybe thing that you thought happened maybe didn't happen for that reason. It didn't happen for that reason. It didn't happen for that reason. It happened to be an example to push back happened to be an example to push back happened to be an example to push back against so that it can keep people in a against so that it can keep people in a against so that it can keep people in a job. so that it can permit uh expansions job. so that it can permit uh expansions job. so that it can permit uh expansions of power, so that it can increase of power, so that it can increase of power, so that it can increase budgets, so that there is still the budgets, so that there is still the budgets, so that there is still the opportunity for people uh culturally to opportunity for people uh culturally to opportunity for people uh culturally to nudge society in one direction or nudge society in one direction or nudge society in one direction or another. This is why I get I think I'm another. This is why I get I think I'm another. This is why I get I think I'm like not very conspiratorial. I'm very like not very conspiratorial. I'm very like not very conspiratorial. I'm very interested. interested. interested. >> I don't consider myself one either. >> I don't consider myself one either. >> I don't consider myself one either. >> Quib bono. The reason the reason that I >> Quib bono. The reason the reason that I >> Quib bono. The reason the reason that I find it find it find it like interesting to be around my like interesting to be around my like interesting to be around my friends, but also sometimes it's like friends, but also sometimes it's like friends, but also sometimes it's like quite fatiguing to me, my more quite fatiguing to me, my more quite fatiguing to me, my more conspiratorally minded friends is the conspiratorally minded friends is the conspiratorally minded friends is the what I'm left with is not more what I'm left with is not more what I'm left with is not more certainty. It's just more like apathy. certainty. It's just more like apathy. certainty. It's just more like apathy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I go, I don't know what the [ __ ] to >> I go, I don't know what the [ __ ] to >> I go, I don't know what the [ __ ] to think, think, think, >> dude. I actually don't know what the >> dude. I actually don't know what the >> dude. I actually don't know what the [ __ ] to think. For every incident that [ __ ] to think. For every incident that [ __ ] to think. For every incident that occurs, you can make an equal and occurs, you can make an equal and occurs, you can make an equal and opposite case for it being legitimate or opposite case for it being legitimate or opposite case for it being legitimate or not or a, not or a, not or a, you know, fourthwave Trojan horse, you you know, fourthwave Trojan horse, you you know, fourthwave Trojan horse, you know, know, know, triple agent that actually start. I'm triple agent that actually start. I'm triple agent that actually start. I'm like, I just I have no idea what I have like, I just I have no idea what I have like, I just I have no idea what I have no idea what it no idea what it no idea what it >> What do I do with this information? >> What do I do with this information? >> What do I do with this information? >> Yeah. And I and I I think that that even >> Yeah. And I and I I think that that even >> Yeah. And I and I I think that that even that could be the outcome. The desired that could be the outcome. The desired that could be the outcome. The desired outcome could be confusion and apathy. outcome could be confusion and apathy. outcome could be confusion and apathy. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So even the meta of this entire >> So even the meta of this entire >> So even the meta of this entire situation is w look we can't convince situation is w look we can't convince situation is w look we can't convince people of any one narrative because people of any one narrative because people of any one narrative because there's too much information out there. there's too much information out there. there's too much information out there. Flood the system with more information Flood the system with more information Flood the system with more information and make them so confused that they have and make them so confused that they have and make them so confused that they have no conviction as opposed to some no conviction as opposed to some no conviction as opposed to some conviction in a direction that we conviction in a direction that we conviction in a direction that we actually don't want. actually don't want. actually don't want. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and I say they >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and I say they >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and I say they always design the means and I'm not always design the means and I'm not always design the means and I'm not conspiratorial. I I'm not a cyclops. conspiratorial. I I'm not a cyclops. conspiratorial. I I'm not a cyclops. There's good and bad to everything. Just There's good and bad to everything. Just There's good and bad to everything. Just like you said with the GLPS, obviously like you said with the GLPS, obviously like you said with the GLPS, obviously if you're 400 lb and and you've got all if you're 400 lb and and you've got all if you're 400 lb and and you've got all of these snoring problems, you can't of these snoring problems, you can't of these snoring problems, you can't sleep, your chest is caving in on you, sleep, your chest is caving in on you, sleep, your chest is caving in on you, you've got diabetes, you're going to you've got diabetes, you're going to you've got diabetes, you're going to lose your left foot, you've got all lose your left foot, you've got all lose your left foot, you've got all these things going on, obviously these things going on, obviously these things going on, obviously get on a GLP1. If you can't beat the get on a GLP1. If you can't beat the get on a GLP1. If you can't beat the food addiction, like go and do it and food addiction, like go and do it and food addiction, like go and do it and then get healthy, but then learn how to then get healthy, but then learn how to then get healthy, but then learn how to deal with food deal with food deal with food >> after you do that. for sure that's good >> after you do that. for sure that's good >> after you do that. for sure that's good that you're getting thin again and that that you're getting thin again and that that you're getting thin again and that you can sleep at night or that you can you can sleep at night or that you can you can sleep at night or that you can make love to your wife or that you can, make love to your wife or that you can, make love to your wife or that you can, you know, play sports with your kids. you know, play sports with your kids. you know, play sports with your kids. Like all of those things are the net Like all of those things are the net Like all of those things are the net good is there, right? Um even if they good is there, right? Um even if they good is there, right? Um even if they said GLP1's lessen your lifespan span by said GLP1's lessen your lifespan span by said GLP1's lessen your lifespan span by 5 years, it's like okay, if I'm 35 and 5 years, it's like okay, if I'm 35 and 5 years, it's like okay, if I'm 35 and 600 lb, I've only got five years left. 600 lb, I've only got five years left. 600 lb, I've only got five years left. So like obviously there I'm there's So like obviously there I'm there's So like obviously there I'm there's black and white to everything. There are black and white to everything. There are black and white to everything. There are good aspects of government, don't get me good aspects of government, don't get me good aspects of government, don't get me wrong. Um it's just that the the bad has wrong. Um it's just that the the bad has wrong. Um it's just that the the bad has far outgrown the good. far outgrown the good. far outgrown the good. >> Um obviously there's good things that go >> Um obviously there's good things that go >> Um obviously there's good things that go government. We need roads. We need a government. We need roads. We need a government. We need roads. We need a military. We need um interstate military. We need um interstate military. We need um interstate commerce. You know, all of the things commerce. You know, all of the things commerce. You know, all of the things that the Articles of Confederation were that the Articles of Confederation were that the Articles of Confederation were designed and why we revamped it, went designed and why we revamped it, went designed and why we revamped it, went with the Constitution. There's goodness with the Constitution. There's goodness with the Constitution. There's goodness there. Um but the founders intent was there. Um but the founders intent was there. Um but the founders intent was always for the government to be always for the government to be always for the government to be constrained and for the you know, constrained and for the you know, constrained and for the you know, individual rights would be paramount in individual rights would be paramount in individual rights would be paramount in this in these institutions. freedom of this in these institutions. freedom of this in these institutions. freedom of speech. Um, all of those things. Um, and speech. Um, all of those things. Um, and speech. Um, all of those things. Um, and and the government has just way and the government has just way and the government has just way overstepped their bounds in every way. overstepped their bounds in every way. overstepped their bounds in every way. Um, and so I I could go down that whole Um, and so I I could go down that whole Um, and so I I could go down that whole thing. I won't do it to you unless you thing. I won't do it to you unless you thing. I won't do it to you unless you want to. Um, but it's just it's grown so want to. Um, but it's just it's grown so want to. Um, but it's just it's grown so much and it's become part of our lives much and it's become part of our lives much and it's become part of our lives where you can't buy a toilet in here or where you can't buy a toilet in here or where you can't buy a toilet in here or a light bulb without the federal a light bulb without the federal a light bulb without the federal government approving it. That's patently government approving it. That's patently government approving it. That's patently ridiculous. Um, you know, you there's ridiculous. Um, you know, you there's ridiculous. Um, you know, you there's they're they're in everything and they're they're in everything and they're they're in everything and they're they're tax they tax everything. they're they're tax they tax everything. they're they're tax they tax everything. when you make your money, when you spend when you make your money, when you spend when you make your money, when you spend your money, when you save your money, your money, when you save your money, your money, when you save your money, when you die, every aspect of your life when you die, every aspect of your life when you die, every aspect of your life is overt taxed. And uh you know, I I I I is overt taxed. And uh you know, I I I I is overt taxed. And uh you know, I I I I guess if I'm anything, I'm a guess if I'm anything, I'm a guess if I'm anything, I'm a constitutionalist and I think the constitutionalist and I think the constitutionalist and I think the founders would be revoling if they saw founders would be revoling if they saw founders would be revoling if they saw what this government was today. Um I what this government was today. Um I what this government was today. Um I think they would say, "Hey, you boys think they would say, "Hey, you boys think they would say, "Hey, you boys better grab your musketss. Like this is better grab your musketss. Like this is better grab your musketss. Like this is ridiculous." ridiculous." ridiculous." >> Said is a guy who both him and his wife >> Said is a guy who both him and his wife >> Said is a guy who both him and his wife were incredibly embroiled in being close were incredibly embroiled in being close were incredibly embroiled in being close to the government for a very long time. to the government for a very long time. to the government for a very long time. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I I didn't I joined the >> Yeah. I mean, I I didn't I joined the >> Yeah. I mean, I I didn't I joined the military to get out of North Dakota. military to get out of North Dakota. military to get out of North Dakota. Like I said, my father died when I was Like I said, my father died when I was Like I said, my father died when I was five. My mother was an alcoholic. She five. My mother was an alcoholic. She five. My mother was an alcoholic. She became a waitress. I lived in a trailer became a waitress. I lived in a trailer became a waitress. I lived in a trailer home. My older when I joined the home. My older when I joined the home. My older when I joined the military, my older younger brother were military, my older younger brother were military, my older younger brother were in jail. Well, one was in Boy's ranch, in jail. Well, one was in Boy's ranch, in jail. Well, one was in Boy's ranch, which was like jail. My older one was in which was like jail. My older one was in which was like jail. My older one was in jail. My two older sisters, one got jail. My two older sisters, one got jail. My two older sisters, one got addicted to drugs later and died, and addicted to drugs later and died, and addicted to drugs later and died, and one was addicted to drugs when I joined one was addicted to drugs when I joined one was addicted to drugs when I joined the military. And my mother was still the military. And my mother was still the military. And my mother was still battling alcoholism like she would battling alcoholism like she would battling alcoholism like she would vaselate between. All I wanted to do was vaselate between. All I wanted to do was vaselate between. All I wanted to do was get the hell out of North Dakota. like get the hell out of North Dakota. like get the hell out of North Dakota. like whatever. I'm not a farmer and the only whatever. I'm not a farmer and the only whatever. I'm not a farmer and the only people that can make it there are people that can make it there are people that can make it there are farmers and otherwise you're addicted to farmers and otherwise you're addicted to farmers and otherwise you're addicted to meth. Methamphetamines are a huge meth. Methamphetamines are a huge meth. Methamphetamines are a huge problem there. Um or you're working in problem there. Um or you're working in problem there. Um or you're working in the support industry for farmers and I the support industry for farmers and I the support industry for farmers and I just knew that none of this was for me. just knew that none of this was for me. just knew that none of this was for me. So when I saw the military recruiter, I So when I saw the military recruiter, I So when I saw the military recruiter, I saw the girls looked at them. I saw, you saw the girls looked at them. I saw, you saw the girls looked at them. I saw, you know, purpose and meaning. I always I know, purpose and meaning. I always I know, purpose and meaning. I always I when I don't have purpose and meaning, I when I don't have purpose and meaning, I when I don't have purpose and meaning, I have anxiety and depression. Those are have anxiety and depression. Those are have anxiety and depression. Those are the two things that fill the void. the two things that fill the void. the two things that fill the void. >> Um and I saw the military as my way out. >> Um and I saw the military as my way out. >> Um and I saw the military as my way out. And uh it's only in this country that my And uh it's only in this country that my And uh it's only in this country that my story is even even approximately story is even even approximately story is even even approximately possible. Even like getting close to possible. Even like getting close to possible. Even like getting close to this story being possible um is only in this story being possible um is only in this story being possible um is only in this country and we owe so much to it. this country and we owe so much to it. this country and we owe so much to it. But when I joined it was to get out of But when I joined it was to get out of But when I joined it was to get out of North Dakota. When I reinlisted it was North Dakota. When I reinlisted it was North Dakota. When I reinlisted it was to preserve the American experiment and to preserve the American experiment and to preserve the American experiment and everything that undergurds it. Um, I everything that undergurds it. Um, I everything that undergurds it. Um, I really relisted and stayed in because I really relisted and stayed in because I really relisted and stayed in because I started reading, you know, Montescu and started reading, you know, Montescu and started reading, you know, Montescu and John Lockach and Cicero and and um the John Lockach and Cicero and and um the John Lockach and Cicero and and um the the Federalist Papers and the stories of the Federalist Papers and the stories of the Federalist Papers and the stories of our founding and sorry to say we had to our founding and sorry to say we had to our founding and sorry to say we had to battle, you know, England, but you're an battle, you know, England, but you're an battle, you know, England, but you're an American citizen now, aren't you? American citizen now, aren't you? American citizen now, aren't you? >> No, no, I'm still on a visa, but I've >> No, no, I'm still on a visa, but I've >> No, no, I'm still on a visa, but I've also still got a plus 44 phone number, also still got a plus 44 phone number, also still got a plus 44 phone number, so you'll take my taxes, but not my area so you'll take my taxes, but not my area so you'll take my taxes, but not my area code. [laughter] code. [laughter] code. [laughter] Well, anyway, all of these things were Well, anyway, all of these things were Well, anyway, all of these things were bought with blood and treasure and when bought with blood and treasure and when bought with blood and treasure and when I reinlisted it was to it was to I reinlisted it was to it was to I reinlisted it was to it was to preserve the experiment and that I preserve the experiment and that I preserve the experiment and that I believed in the experiment. I believed believed in the experiment. I believed believed in the experiment. I believed it was the greatest experiment ever ran it was the greatest experiment ever ran it was the greatest experiment ever ran in in history. Um, and in 250 years we in in history. Um, and in 250 years we in in history. Um, and in 250 years we have, you know, the great one of we had have, you know, the great one of we had have, you know, the great one of we had one of the greatest economies. We one of the greatest economies. We one of the greatest economies. We technology, culture, um, you know, technology, culture, um, you know, technology, culture, um, you know, wisdom, all of these things um, is only wisdom, all of these things um, is only wisdom, all of these things um, is only popular is only possible in this kind of popular is only possible in this kind of popular is only possible in this kind of country. And you know, that's why I country. And you know, that's why I country. And you know, that's why I stayed in the military. And I love it. stayed in the military. And I love it. stayed in the military. And I love it. And that's why I'm trying to preserve And that's why I'm trying to preserve And that's why I'm trying to preserve these things now with the companies that these things now with the companies that these things now with the companies that I'm building now and what I'm doing I'm building now and what I'm doing I'm building now and what I'm doing going forward going forward going forward >> is because I I I I bet on the >> is because I I I I bet on the >> is because I I I I bet on the individual. I bet on families. I I bet individual. I bet on families. I I bet individual. I bet on families. I I bet on freedom of choice. When people are on freedom of choice. When people are on freedom of choice. When people are left to their devices to make decisions, left to their devices to make decisions, left to their devices to make decisions, they'll be engaged in far better work they'll be engaged in far better work they'll be engaged in far better work with more meaning than any government with more meaning than any government with more meaning than any government could bestow upon them um in any other could bestow upon them um in any other could bestow upon them um in any other way. way. way. >> If you're trying to go from Joey >> If you're trying to go from Joey >> If you're trying to go from Joey Chestnut to Joey Swoll, the RP Strength Chestnut to Joey Swoll, the RP Strength Chestnut to Joey Swoll, the RP Strength app is the best place to start. I've app is the best place to start. I've app is the best place to start. I've been in the gym for two decades and it been in the gym for two decades and it been in the gym for two decades and it wasn't until this last year that I had wasn't until this last year that I had wasn't until this last year that I had some of the best training sessions of my some of the best training sessions of my some of the best training sessions of my life and RP was a massive part of that. life and RP was a massive part of that. life and RP was a massive part of that. Actual scientists built this thing Actual scientists built this thing Actual scientists built this thing around the obsession to beat up their around the obsession to beat up their around the obsession to beat up their high school bullies and provide the most high school bullies and provide the most high school bullies and provide the most sciencebacked effective path to sciencebacked effective path to sciencebacked effective path to maximizing muscle gain. It tells you maximizing muscle gain. It tells you maximizing muscle gain. It tells you your exercises, how many sets, reps, the your exercises, how many sets, reps, the your exercises, how many sets, reps, the weights, everything. So, all you have to weights, everything. So, all you have to weights, everything. So, all you have to do is show up and lift. If the RP do is show up and lift. If the RP do is show up and lift. If the RP Strength app could wipe your ass for Strength app could wipe your ass for Strength app could wipe your ass for you, probably would. and it adjusts you, probably would. and it adjusts you, probably would. and it adjusts automatically every week based on how automatically every week based on how automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing. For me, you're actually progressing. For me, you're actually progressing. For me, following a proper evidence-based plan following a proper evidence-based plan following a proper evidence-based plan has made a massive difference. And if has made a massive difference. And if has made a massive difference. And if you're serious about your training, you're serious about your training, you're serious about your training, it'll do the same for you. Right now, it'll do the same for you. Right now, it'll do the same for you. Right now, you can follow the exact same training you can follow the exact same training you can follow the exact same training plan that I use and get up to $50 off plan that I use and get up to $50 off plan that I use and get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below by heading link in the description below by heading link in the description below by heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's checkout. That's checkout. That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom rpstrength.com/modernwisdom rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. Can you and modern wisdom at checkout. Can you and modern wisdom at checkout. Can you take me through what your app does? Have take me through what your app does? Have take me through what your app does? Have you got it on your phone? you got it on your phone? you got it on your phone? >> Oh yeah. So, um my applica, you know, my >> Oh yeah. So, um my applica, you know, my >> Oh yeah. So, um my applica, you know, my my uh co-founder um co-founders were my uh co-founder um co-founders were my uh co-founder um co-founders were like, "Hey, you were on Rogan. You like, "Hey, you were on Rogan. You like, "Hey, you were on Rogan. You didn't mention our app until the very didn't mention our app until the very didn't mention our app until the very end." And I was like, "Sorry, I don't end." And I was like, "Sorry, I don't end." And I was like, "Sorry, I don't think about those things until it's think about those things until it's think about those things until it's time." time." time." >> [ __ ] fun conversation. >> [ __ ] fun conversation. >> [ __ ] fun conversation. >> So, the app the app is called Spartan >> So, the app the app is called Spartan >> So, the app the app is called Spartan Forge. Um again, uh there's there's many Forge. Um again, uh there's there's many Forge. Um again, uh there's there's many things. God, there's so much into this. things. God, there's so much into this. things. God, there's so much into this. Um I wanted people to get outdoors and Um I wanted people to get outdoors and Um I wanted people to get outdoors and and I did this work while I was in the and I did this work while I was in the and I did this work while I was in the military. So while I was in the military. So while I was in the military. So while I was in the military, I was, you know, essentially military, I was, you know, essentially military, I was, you know, essentially my job was variable analysis for my job was variable analysis for my job was variable analysis for commanders. commanders. commanders. The commanders have a goal. Kill bad The commanders have a goal. Kill bad The commanders have a goal. Kill bad guy. Hunters have a gill a goal. Harvest guy. Hunters have a gill a goal. Harvest guy. Hunters have a gill a goal. Harvest meat, have an experience with their son. meat, have an experience with their son. meat, have an experience with their son. Initiation rights, I think, is something Initiation rights, I think, is something Initiation rights, I think, is something that this country is in desperate need that this country is in desperate need that this country is in desperate need of. Hunting is a useful vector for of. Hunting is a useful vector for of. Hunting is a useful vector for initiation rights between a father and a initiation rights between a father and a initiation rights between a father and a son. Like you've killed a deer, now son. Like you've killed a deer, now son. Like you've killed a deer, now today I treat you like a man. Baptism by today I treat you like a man. Baptism by today I treat you like a man. Baptism by the river, you're 16, now you're a dude. the river, you're 16, now you're a dude. the river, you're 16, now you're a dude. Hunters, people hunt for all kinds of Hunters, people hunt for all kinds of Hunters, people hunt for all kinds of reasons. And so when I was leaving the reasons. And so when I was leaving the reasons. And so when I was leaving the military, I had anxiety and depression military, I had anxiety and depression military, I had anxiety and depression because I didn't know what I was going because I didn't know what I was going because I didn't know what I was going to do when I got out. Like I got paid to to do when I got out. Like I got paid to to do when I got out. Like I got paid to kill and break or to break things so kill and break or to break things so kill and break or to break things so other guys could kill bad guys who were other guys could kill bad guys who were other guys could kill bad guys who were trying to harm our country. And I, you trying to harm our country. And I, you trying to harm our country. And I, you know, got to, you know, had a blank know, got to, you know, had a blank know, got to, you know, had a blank check to just prosecute war. And I had a check to just prosecute war. And I had a check to just prosecute war. And I had a great amount of meaning and from it. great amount of meaning and from it. great amount of meaning and from it. And, you know, I didn't looking back on And, you know, I didn't looking back on And, you know, I didn't looking back on the Iraq war, I wish we were never the Iraq war, I wish we were never the Iraq war, I wish we were never there, but certainly Afghanistan, the there, but certainly Afghanistan, the there, but certainly Afghanistan, the work I did in Africa, the work I did in work I did in Africa, the work I did in work I did in Africa, the work I did in the southern Philippines, we were the southern Philippines, we were the southern Philippines, we were killing bad guys and um people that killing bad guys and um people that killing bad guys and um people that would have killed us if we didn't kill would have killed us if we didn't kill would have killed us if we didn't kill them um and uh in most cases. And I was them um and uh in most cases. And I was them um and uh in most cases. And I was getting all this anxiety and I said, getting all this anxiety and I said, getting all this anxiety and I said, "What am I going to do when I get out?" "What am I going to do when I get out?" "What am I going to do when I get out?" like how can I I want to keep having like how can I I want to keep having like how can I I want to keep having this meaning. If I lose this, I'm gonna this meaning. If I lose this, I'm gonna this meaning. If I lose this, I'm gonna die. Like I'm going to become an die. Like I'm going to become an die. Like I'm going to become an alcoholic. Like I said, I'm the only one alcoholic. Like I said, I'm the only one alcoholic. Like I said, I'm the only one in my family that wasn't addicted to in my family that wasn't addicted to in my family that wasn't addicted to drugs or alcohol. And I could feel the drugs or alcohol. And I could feel the drugs or alcohol. And I could feel the alcohol calling me like, "Hey, I got alcohol calling me like, "Hey, I got alcohol calling me like, "Hey, I got something for you." something for you." something for you." >> So I said, "What am I going to do when I >> So I said, "What am I going to do when I >> So I said, "What am I going to do when I get out?" And I was a hunter and I've get out?" And I was a hunter and I've get out?" And I was a hunter and I've been bow hunting for a few years. And I been bow hunting for a few years. And I been bow hunting for a few years. And I thought, really, these are just target thought, really, these are just target thought, really, these are just target analysis problems a hunter and and and analysis problems a hunter and and and analysis problems a hunter and and and military guys have. they have variable military guys have. they have variable military guys have. they have variable analysis that they need to understand a analysis that they need to understand a analysis that they need to understand a target better so they can prosecute the target better so they can prosecute the target better so they can prosecute the target. Hunters are in the same way. So target. Hunters are in the same way. So target. Hunters are in the same way. So my company Spartan Forge that I started my company Spartan Forge that I started my company Spartan Forge that I started um the first product that we released um the first product that we released um the first product that we released was a um neural network that did um deer was a um neural network that did um deer was a um neural network that did um deer movement prediction which sounds kind of movement prediction which sounds kind of movement prediction which sounds kind of cliche but hunters only have so much cliche but hunters only have so much cliche but hunters only have so much time off. So the first thing we built in time off. So the first thing we built in time off. So the first thing we built in this area was just a neural network that this area was just a neural network that this area was just a neural network that used collar GPS data from deer. So used collar GPS data from deer. So used collar GPS data from deer. So biologists, universities, private people biologists, universities, private people biologists, universities, private people would call our deer and they would let would call our deer and they would let would call our deer and they would let them run and they'd learn things about them run and they'd learn things about them run and they'd learn things about fawn recruitment or how many were fawn recruitment or how many were fawn recruitment or how many were getting killed by wolves, how they move, getting killed by wolves, how they move, getting killed by wolves, how they move, where they move, why they move. We took where they move, why they move. We took where they move, why they move. We took that data and we started building neural that data and we started building neural that data and we started building neural networks to predict movement and out of networks to predict movement and out of networks to predict movement and out of that we got a few thousand users and that we got a few thousand users and that we got a few thousand users and then I started looking to mapping pro then I started looking to mapping pro then I started looking to mapping pro program or mapping platforms after we program or mapping platforms after we program or mapping platforms after we had a few thousand users and I really had a few thousand users and I really had a few thousand users and I really just wanted to focus on machine learning just wanted to focus on machine learning just wanted to focus on machine learning because there's so much I can do in because there's so much I can do in because there's so much I can do in machine learning in the in the hunting machine learning in the in the hunting machine learning in the in the hunting space. I'd never really wanted to get space. I'd never really wanted to get space. I'd never really wanted to get into mapping, but then there are these into mapping, but then there are these into mapping, but then there are these huge, you know, couple of multiund huge, you know, couple of multiund huge, you know, couple of multiund million dollar corporations that are in million dollar corporations that are in million dollar corporations that are in the hunting and mapping space and I met the hunting and mapping space and I met the hunting and mapping space and I met with them and they were really offering with them and they were really offering with them and they were really offering me like, sounds like a lot of money, but me like, sounds like a lot of money, but me like, sounds like a lot of money, but like a half million dollars for like six like a half million dollars for like six like a half million dollars for like six or eight years of work. I was like, or eight years of work. I was like, or eight years of work. I was like, look, I could go to work for Accenture look, I could go to work for Accenture look, I could go to work for Accenture next week and make that in a year. Like, next week and make that in a year. Like, next week and make that in a year. Like, that's not what I'm trying to do here. that's not what I'm trying to do here. that's not what I'm trying to do here. A, I'm trying to demystify the woods and A, I'm trying to demystify the woods and A, I'm trying to demystify the woods and B, I want to get people into the woods. B, I want to get people into the woods. B, I want to get people into the woods. and see I think neural networks, machine and see I think neural networks, machine and see I think neural networks, machine learning, artificial intelligence, learning, artificial intelligence, learning, artificial intelligence, mapping, geospatial intelligence is mapping, geospatial intelligence is mapping, geospatial intelligence is going to be a huge player in this space. going to be a huge player in this space. going to be a huge player in this space. So all of them kind of just said they So all of them kind of just said they So all of them kind of just said they this was 2015. So they were like hearing this was 2015. So they were like hearing this was 2015. So they were like hearing AI and they had no idea what AI was. So AI and they had no idea what AI was. So AI and they had no idea what AI was. So um anyway, we we said I said look the um anyway, we we said I said look the um anyway, we we said I said look the hard part is the machine learning, the hard part is the machine learning, the hard part is the machine learning, the hard part is the neural networks, the hard part is the neural networks, the hard part is the neural networks, the hard part is the geospatial hard part is the geospatial hard part is the geospatial intelligence. Building a mapbox map and intelligence. Building a mapbox map and intelligence. Building a mapbox map and putting it in an app is not the hard putting it in an app is not the hard putting it in an app is not the hard part, which is what all these guys part, which is what all these guys part, which is what all these guys really are at the end of the day is really are at the end of the day is really are at the end of the day is they're a mapbox map inside of a So, we they're a mapbox map inside of a So, we they're a mapbox map inside of a So, we built this Spartan Forge. Um, we've got built this Spartan Forge. Um, we've got built this Spartan Forge. Um, we've got like LAR high resolution imagery. Like like LAR high resolution imagery. Like like LAR high resolution imagery. Like the imagery is 5cm imagery. the imagery is 5cm imagery. the imagery is 5cm imagery. >> Jesus [ __ ] Christ. >> Jesus [ __ ] Christ. >> Jesus [ __ ] Christ. >> Uh, so you can see >> Uh, so you can see >> Uh, so you can see >> that's better than Google Maps. >> that's better than Google Maps. >> that's better than Google Maps. >> Oh, it's far better. 100 times better >> Oh, it's far better. 100 times better >> Oh, it's far better. 100 times better than Google Maps. Um, you can see down than Google Maps. Um, you can see down than Google Maps. Um, you can see down to the ground. to the ground. to the ground. >> Is that that's as far as you can go or >> Is that that's as far as you can go or >> Is that that's as far as you can go or can you go further? can you go further? can you go further? >> I can go further. And then I can go back >> I can go further. And then I can go back >> I can go further. And then I can go back in time, too. in time, too. in time, too. I can go back to I can go back to I can go back to >> where have you taken this data from? >> where have you taken this data from? >> where have you taken this data from? >> So we contracted with um an air a >> So we contracted with um an air a >> So we contracted with um an air a company that runs airplanes and uh we go company that runs airplanes and uh we go company that runs airplanes and uh we go in with a couple of other companies that in with a couple of other companies that in with a couple of other companies that are in like soil and mineral rights, are in like soil and mineral rights, are in like soil and mineral rights, real estate, other places. Um there's a real estate, other places. Um there's a real estate, other places. Um there's a solar company. They need high resolution solar company. They need high resolution solar company. They need high resolution imagery of the tops of houses so they imagery of the tops of houses so they imagery of the tops of houses so they can measure it for solar. Like people can measure it for solar. Like people can measure it for solar. Like people knock on your door, try selling you knock on your door, try selling you knock on your door, try selling you solar. Anyway, we throw in a bunch of solar. Anyway, we throw in a bunch of solar. Anyway, we throw in a bunch of money with them and they collect this money with them and they collect this money with them and they collect this highly highly um like uh high resolution highly highly um like uh high resolution highly highly um like uh high resolution imagery that we have that goes back in imagery that we have that goes back in imagery that we have that goes back in time. Wow. time. Wow. time. Wow. >> So, we do all of that and then we have >> So, we do all of that and then we have >> So, we do all of that and then we have LAR data. I I'll make this really short, LAR data. I I'll make this really short, LAR data. I I'll make this really short, but LAR data and other things so you can but LAR data and other things so you can but LAR data and other things so you can get a visual understanding of the ground get a visual understanding of the ground get a visual understanding of the ground where it rips away the trees. where it rips away the trees. where it rips away the trees. >> So, what you can do is this is mapped >> So, what you can do is this is mapped >> So, what you can do is this is mapped using light data similar to how a radar using light data similar to how a radar using light data similar to how a radar works. Um, then you can throw it into works. Um, then you can throw it into works. Um, then you can throw it into like uh 3D and my service is kind of like uh 3D and my service is kind of like uh 3D and my service is kind of weak right now, but once the service weak right now, but once the service weak right now, but once the service gets up, it you you can um see paths gets up, it you you can um see paths gets up, it you you can um see paths under the ground. Like during the under the ground. Like during the under the ground. Like during the hurricane in North Carolina, we gave a hurricane in North Carolina, we gave a hurricane in North Carolina, we gave a bunch of accounts to the first bunch of accounts to the first bunch of accounts to the first responders and they were trying to get responders and they were trying to get responders and they were trying to get to houses that had been washed out and to houses that had been washed out and to houses that had been washed out and the roads were washed out, but they were the roads were washed out, but they were the roads were washed out, but they were able to use our app to find paths that able to use our app to find paths that able to use our app to find paths that were used for logging trails in order to were used for logging trails in order to were used for logging trails in order to get to the back of these people place get to the back of these people place get to the back of these people place these people's houses and deliver them these people's houses and deliver them these people's houses and deliver them like diabetes medication, um oxygen if like diabetes medication, um oxygen if like diabetes medication, um oxygen if they were on like a emphyma machine. they were on like a emphyma machine. they were on like a emphyma machine. >> [ __ ] me. And then we had this, we have >> [ __ ] me. And then we had this, we have >> [ __ ] me. And then we had this, we have this capability called Blue Force this capability called Blue Force this capability called Blue Force Tracker where you can set up pins. So Tracker where you can set up pins. So Tracker where you can set up pins. So when their roads washed out, they were when their roads washed out, they were when their roads washed out, they were using it. And so hunters can use it in using it. And so hunters can use it in using it. And so hunters can use it in the same way when they're organizing the same way when they're organizing the same way when they're organizing hunts. They can drop pins and everyone hunts. They can drop pins and everyone hunts. They can drop pins and everyone sees them. They get the high resolution sees them. They get the high resolution sees them. They get the high resolution imagery. They get the LAR. They get the imagery. They get the LAR. They get the imagery. They get the LAR. They get the historical imagery. They get the neural historical imagery. They get the neural historical imagery. They get the neural networks. Then we have our own neural networks. Then we have our own neural networks. Then we have our own neural network that we call Cyber Scout. So if network that we call Cyber Scout. So if network that we call Cyber Scout. So if you had never shot that bow that I gave you had never shot that bow that I gave you had never shot that bow that I gave you before, you could sit down with you before, you could sit down with you before, you could sit down with Cyber Scout and say, "Hey, I need to Cyber Scout and say, "Hey, I need to Cyber Scout and say, "Hey, I need to tune this bow. Here's the type of bow. tune this bow. Here's the type of bow. tune this bow. Here's the type of bow. How do I do it?" And it walks you How do I do it?" And it walks you How do I do it?" And it walks you through all of those things. far better through all of those things. far better through all of those things. far better than like a chat GPT would or other ones than like a chat GPT would or other ones than like a chat GPT would or other ones would because all of our training data would because all of our training data would because all of our training data is solely focused on hunting and is solely focused on hunting and is solely focused on hunting and best-in-class information on hunting. best-in-class information on hunting. best-in-class information on hunting. Neural networks often regress to the Neural networks often regress to the Neural networks often regress to the mean by giving you the broad spectrum of mean by giving you the broad spectrum of mean by giving you the broad spectrum of the internet. So you'll get some bad and the internet. So you'll get some bad and the internet. So you'll get some bad and some good data. We our retrieval some good data. We our retrieval some good data. We our retrieval documents that we use are all sourced documents that we use are all sourced documents that we use are all sourced from the highest caliber of hunting from the highest caliber of hunting from the highest caliber of hunting information. information. information. So um Cyber Scout and soon it'll be So um Cyber Scout and soon it'll be So um Cyber Scout and soon it'll be interacting with your maps. So it'll interacting with your maps. So it'll interacting with your maps. So it'll tell you how to hunt an area, how to do tell you how to hunt an area, how to do tell you how to hunt an area, how to do all of those things. Um but yeah, we all of those things. Um but yeah, we all of those things. Um but yeah, we started this company in like uh 2017. We started this company in like uh 2017. We started this company in like uh 2017. We got our first mobile app in 2021. And got our first mobile app in 2021. And got our first mobile app in 2021. And then we uh um uh you know, in the app then we uh um uh you know, in the app then we uh um uh you know, in the app store right now, I think we're like store right now, I think we're like store right now, I think we're like number 14 in mapping and outdoors, number 14 in mapping and outdoors, number 14 in mapping and outdoors, something like that, you know, hundreds something like that, you know, hundreds something like that, you know, hundreds of thousands of users. Um, and really of thousands of users. Um, and really of thousands of users. Um, and really all of it was born out of just a really all of it was born out of just a really all of it was born out of just a really just kind of my first principles as a just kind of my first principles as a just kind of my first principles as a human, which are the tribe's important, human, which are the tribe's important, human, which are the tribe's important, friends are important, get out into the friends are important, get out into the friends are important, get out into the wilderness, disconnect, and get things. wilderness, disconnect, and get things. wilderness, disconnect, and get things. Paradoxically, I'm using an app to do Paradoxically, I'm using an app to do Paradoxically, I'm using an app to do that. But the reason I'm using an app to that. But the reason I'm using an app to that. But the reason I'm using an app to do that is because people have so little do that is because people have so little do that is because people have so little vacation, so little time. They want to vacation, so little time. They want to vacation, so little time. They want to hunt public land in in Pennsylvania and hunt public land in in Pennsylvania and hunt public land in in Pennsylvania and they live in Texas. like they can go up, they live in Texas. like they can go up, they live in Texas. like they can go up, they can scout through my app, they can they can scout through my app, they can they can scout through my app, they can understand things, they can drill down, understand things, they can drill down, understand things, they can drill down, they can use a high resolution imagery, they can use a high resolution imagery, they can use a high resolution imagery, they can do all that stuff and at least they can do all that stuff and at least they can do all that stuff and at least have an idea of what the ground looks have an idea of what the ground looks have an idea of what the ground looks like before they get there so that they like before they get there so that they like before they get there so that they can download an offline map and get can download an offline map and get can download an offline map and get disconnected and go out there and create disconnected and go out there and create disconnected and go out there and create some, you know, my favorite time as a some, you know, my favorite time as a some, you know, my favorite time as a CEO is on our social media, a father and CEO is on our social media, a father and CEO is on our social media, a father and a son will message me and say, "We've a son will message me and say, "We've a son will message me and say, "We've been targeting this buck for like three been targeting this buck for like three been targeting this buck for like three years. We'd never saw it, this white years. We'd never saw it, this white years. We'd never saw it, this white tail buck, and my son and I, we're using tail buck, and my son and I, we're using tail buck, and my son and I, we're using your app. We use the neural network. We your app. We use the neural network. We your app. We use the neural network. We use the prediction. We use a high use the prediction. We use a high use the prediction. We use a high quality mapping and we figured out a quality mapping and we figured out a quality mapping and we figured out a spot. We got in there and we killed the spot. We got in there and we killed the spot. We got in there and we killed the deer and there's a father and a son deer and there's a father and a son deer and there's a father and a son holding a buck together that they're holding a buck together that they're holding a buck together that they're going to eat dinner over or you know put going to eat dinner over or you know put going to eat dinner over or you know put on a wall and make a permanent memory. on a wall and make a permanent memory. on a wall and make a permanent memory. That is my favorite part of running this That is my favorite part of running this That is my favorite part of running this one company is that experience right one company is that experience right one company is that experience right there is just people going out and there is just people going out and there is just people going out and reconnecting with nature and being in reconnecting with nature and being in reconnecting with nature and being in it, but also buying down risk. And like it, but also buying down risk. And like it, but also buying down risk. And like I said, paradoxically through an app, I said, paradoxically through an app, I said, paradoxically through an app, but you can drop pins and tell your wife but you can drop pins and tell your wife but you can drop pins and tell your wife where you're going to hunt and if you're where you're going to hunt and if you're where you're going to hunt and if you're offline, if you fall from a treeand or offline, if you fall from a treeand or offline, if you fall from a treeand or whatever, break your legs, they'll know whatever, break your legs, they'll know whatever, break your legs, they'll know where to send the people to go and help where to send the people to go and help where to send the people to go and help you out or and all of that type of you out or and all of that type of you out or and all of that type of stuff. Um, so you know, stuff. Um, so you know, stuff. Um, so you know, >> Jesus [ __ ] Christ, you're kind of a >> Jesus [ __ ] Christ, you're kind of a >> Jesus [ __ ] Christ, you're kind of a terrifying human. I'm very glad you were terrifying human. I'm very glad you were terrifying human. I'm very glad you were on our side. on our side. on our side. >> What? What do you mean? >> What? What do you mean? >> What? What do you mean? >> Just this like 5cm map data. Oh, by the >> Just this like 5cm map data. Oh, by the >> Just this like 5cm map data. Oh, by the way, also I'm able to basically be Q way, also I'm able to basically be Q way, also I'm able to basically be Q from James Bond for a bunch of like from James Bond for a bunch of like from James Bond for a bunch of like scary. Oh, also by the way, I can scary. Oh, also by the way, I can scary. Oh, also by the way, I can probably download your phone data and probably download your phone data and probably download your phone data and work out whether there's some work out whether there's some work out whether there's some vulnerability. Oh, also by the way, like vulnerability. Oh, also by the way, like vulnerability. Oh, also by the way, like I'm glad that you're on I'm glad you're I'm glad that you're on I'm glad you're I'm glad that you're on I'm glad you're on our side. on our side. on our side. >> Well, I thank you. I whenever people ask >> Well, I thank you. I whenever people ask >> Well, I thank you. I whenever people ask me for like the 30 secondond job of who me for like the 30 secondond job of who me for like the 30 secondond job of who I am or what I did in the military, I I am or what I did in the military, I I am or what I did in the military, I would often use the Q thing. I'm not would often use the Q thing. I'm not would often use the Q thing. I'm not James Bond, but I built cool [ __ ] for James Bond, but I built cool [ __ ] for James Bond, but I built cool [ __ ] for people like James Bond. And that was people like James Bond. And that was people like James Bond. And that was that's a very accurate summation of my that's a very accurate summation of my that's a very accurate summation of my military career. I never kicked the military career. I never kicked the military career. I never kicked the door. Um I was never intentionally in a door. Um I was never intentionally in a door. Um I was never intentionally in a gunfight. I was never the guy at the tip gunfight. I was never the guy at the tip gunfight. I was never the guy at the tip of the spear. I was the girthy part of of the spear. I was the girthy part of of the spear. I was the girthy part of the staff uh that was supporting the the staff uh that was supporting the the staff uh that was supporting the head of the spear. head of the spear. head of the spear. >> I mean, if that's if if I was the girthy >> I mean, if that's if if I was the girthy >> I mean, if that's if if I was the girthy part of the staff is not the way to end part of the staff is not the way to end part of the staff is not the way to end this episode, I don't know what is. Bill this episode, I don't know what is. Bill this episode, I don't know what is. Bill Thompson, you [ __ ] roll, man. Where Thompson, you [ __ ] roll, man. Where Thompson, you [ __ ] roll, man. Where should people go to check out? should people go to check out? should people go to check out? >> Uh spartanforge.ai. AI um is our >> Uh spartanforge.ai. AI um is our >> Uh spartanforge.ai. AI um is our website. Um you can sign up there um or website. Um you can sign up there um or website. Um you can sign up there um or you can download us through the app you can download us through the app you can download us through the app store. Um we're on Instagram. I said store. Um we're on Instagram. I said store. Um we're on Instagram. I said this on Rogan's podcast and I did res I this on Rogan's podcast and I did res I this on Rogan's podcast and I did res I did regret it but I'll say it here too. did regret it but I'll say it here too. did regret it but I'll say it here too. Um when you have questions about the app Um when you have questions about the app Um when you have questions about the app or complaints or gripes, I as the or complaints or gripes, I as the or complaints or gripes, I as the product owner, I see that as my bigger product owner, I see that as my bigger product owner, I see that as my bigger role than CEO. I answer all of the role than CEO. I answer all of the role than CEO. I answer all of the social media every morning. I spend social media every morning. I spend social media every morning. I spend about two hours. So when people say, "I about two hours. So when people say, "I about two hours. So when people say, "I wish the app did this or it didn't do wish the app did this or it didn't do wish the app did this or it didn't do this or I didn't like this or hey, we this or I didn't like this or hey, we this or I didn't like this or hey, we did this hunt." You're dealing with me. did this hunt." You're dealing with me. did this hunt." You're dealing with me. Now, if you have a problem that needs a Now, if you have a problem that needs a Now, if you have a problem that needs a technical solution, I'll usually farm technical solution, I'll usually farm technical solution, I'll usually farm that off to our QA team, but otherwise, that off to our QA team, but otherwise, that off to our QA team, but otherwise, you're dealing with me. So, you got you're dealing with me. So, you got you're dealing with me. So, you got questions about the app, you don't know questions about the app, you don't know questions about the app, you don't know how to get into bow hunting, and you how to get into bow hunting, and you how to get into bow hunting, and you want to get into it. Um, you want to want to get into it. Um, you want to want to get into it. Um, you want to learn through our Cyber Scout or through learn through our Cyber Scout or through learn through our Cyber Scout or through our app how to be a better hunter. our app how to be a better hunter. our app how to be a better hunter. >> Jared, can you quickly grab the gift >> Jared, can you quickly grab the gift >> Jared, can you quickly grab the gift that I got today from outside that I got today from outside that I got today from outside >> just while we're winding? >> just while we're winding? >> just while we're winding? >> Yeah. So, they can find me there and I'm >> Yeah. So, they can find me there and I'm >> Yeah. So, they can find me there and I'm happy to interact with people. After I happy to interact with people. After I happy to interact with people. After I did Rogan, I think I had 3,500 messages did Rogan, I think I had 3,500 messages did Rogan, I think I had 3,500 messages of people and it took me of people and it took me of people and it took me >> You're [ __ ] about glutton for >> You're [ __ ] about glutton for >> You're [ __ ] about glutton for punishment. took me about a month and a punishment. took me about a month and a punishment. took me about a month and a half. half. half. >> You should work for Zenesk, >> You should work for Zenesk, >> You should work for Zenesk, >> you know, that could be your new, you >> you know, that could be your new, you >> you know, that could be your new, you know, you I could go and work for know, you I could go and work for know, you I could go and work for Accenture and do the whatever whatever. Accenture and do the whatever whatever. Accenture and do the whatever whatever. Uh, I got to say thank you as well, man. Uh, I got to say thank you as well, man. Uh, I got to say thank you as well, man. Like this gift. Like this gift. Like this gift. >> Yeah. So, >> Yeah. So, >> Yeah. So, >> that you got me is so [ __ ] beautiful. >> that you got me is so [ __ ] beautiful. >> that you got me is so [ __ ] beautiful. >> And Archery Country and Dialed Archery >> And Archery Country and Dialed Archery >> And Archery Country and Dialed Archery made that possible. They're all friends made that possible. They're all friends made that possible. They're all friends of mine. The guys at Hoy, Tom from Hoy's of mine. The guys at Hoy, Tom from Hoy's of mine. The guys at Hoy, Tom from Hoy's amazing. Uh, my buddy Tyler, I think amazing. Uh, my buddy Tyler, I think amazing. Uh, my buddy Tyler, I think you've met Tyler from Archery Country. you've met Tyler from Archery Country. you've met Tyler from Archery Country. Um, and and and Dialed Archery, my Um, and and and Dialed Archery, my Um, and and and Dialed Archery, my friends. um uh uh Taylor and Jordan run friends. um uh uh Taylor and Jordan run friends. um uh uh Taylor and Jordan run that, you know, Americanmade and um that, you know, Americanmade and um that, you know, Americanmade and um great companies and uh I work with all great companies and uh I work with all great companies and uh I work with all of them and uh I I I was I was so upset of them and uh I I I was I was so upset of them and uh I I I was I was so upset because I thought, "Oh, he doesn't look because I thought, "Oh, he doesn't look because I thought, "Oh, he doesn't look like he has a bow." And then so I got like he has a bow." And then so I got like he has a bow." And then so I got all ordered all the stuff, got it all all ordered all the stuff, got it all all ordered all the stuff, got it all put together, and we're going to go tune put together, and we're going to go tune put together, and we're going to go tune you up with this at Archery Country. And you up with this at Archery Country. And you up with this at Archery Country. And then like three days ago, I saw a post then like three days ago, I saw a post then like three days ago, I saw a post where you had a bow. where you had a bow. where you had a bow. >> Got a bow. But this is You can never >> Got a bow. But this is You can never >> Got a bow. But this is You can never have too many bows as I've been reliably have too many bows as I've been reliably have too many bows as I've been reliably told by Ken Haynes. Dude, you're told by Ken Haynes. Dude, you're told by Ken Haynes. Dude, you're awesome. I appreciate you very much. awesome. I appreciate you very much. awesome. I appreciate you very much. >> Thank you for having me on. I look >> Thank you for having me on. I look >> Thank you for having me on. I look forward to firing this this sucker with forward to firing this this sucker with forward to firing this this sucker with you soon. you soon. you soon. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> All right. Goodbye, everyone. Dude. Yes. >> All right. Goodbye, everyone. Dude. Yes. >> All right. Goodbye, everyone. Dude. Yes. >> Lovely. >> Lovely. >> Lovely. >> Good. >> Good. >> Good. >> Thank you very much for tuning in if you >> Thank you very much for tuning in if you >> Thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode. Another one that I enjoyed that episode. Another one that I enjoyed that episode. Another one that I know you love is just here.