Esperanza Spalding: I’m Not the “Musical Prodigy” I’ve Been Made Out to Be

Key Takeaway

Treat resistance as information, not an automatic stop sign. Today, when you hesitate on a meaningful project, pause and ask: “What is this doubt or resistance that refuses to move forward?” Name the real concern—pride, fear of judgment, lack of support, or a genuine misalignment—then take one small next step that honors both the idea and the warning. Productive self-doubt helps you protect the essence of your work rather than abandon it.

Episode Overview

Esperanza Spalding reflects on the community support, curiosity, and persistence that shaped her musical life, pushing back on the “prodigy” narrative. She discusses authenticity, the pain inherent in creative work, using skepticism as fuel, and the lessons in presence and love she learned while producing an album with her hero, Milton Nascimento.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Esperanza Spalding: I’m Not the “Musical Prodigy” I’ve Been Made Out to Be from How I Built This. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

We have a kind of professional mask that we wear, but I realized that all of this actually obscures and blurs the essential dynamics . The essence is precisely, "Milton, I love you. I really love you." That is the mindset. As I revealed those feelings through my gaze, gestures, and presence, everything started to fall into place smoothly. Hello, I am Guy Raj . This is The Great Creators . In this program, I bring you conversations with the greatest actors, musicians, and performing artists of our time .

Today's guest is Esperanza Spalding, a five-time Grammy Award-winning bassist, singer, and songwriter . Esperanza has built an amazing career, but as you will soon hear, she also feels that she is misunderstood and misrepresented . So, on today's broadcast, she shares her creative journey herself, from her amazing musical beginnings to the moment she almost gave up on music completely during her college years . Furthermore, they also live-streamed the entire process of making the album from scratch . And we also talked about what we learned about love through our collaboration with the legendary Milton Nassimo .

So, shall we begin the interview with Esperanza Spalding? Esperanza, you grew up in Portland and must have been exposed to various types of music from a young age. Since you majored in jazz and your mother is also a jazz musician, let's talk about that in a moment . When did you first hear Milton Nassie Mentor 's music ? How old were you back then? It was when I was 19. I think I was about 18 or 19 years old. I made a Brazilian friend at Berklee College of Music, and that friend introduced me to other Brazilian friends.

Back then, I was listening to more music like Airo Pasquale . I was um... more interested in the jazz avant-garde , somewhat eccentric Egberto Gismonti . I think I got to know Egberto Gismonti and Airo Moreira Pascual before Milton . It's a bit strange, isn't it? I think that shows I need to be exposed to this kind of unique music . And my friends praised Milton, but we didn't learn about Milton in the class I was taking . It wasn't treated like a world-historical figure that a music student absolutely needs to know .

So, when some of my friends found out that I didn't know ' Native Dancer,' they said, "No, you don't know. You have to take this right now. You can't continue the class until you know this ." He said. We were in my room, and I was making really terrible sushi that day . I had just bought a bamboo mat back then , and I thought it was a whole new world . So I was making and eating all kinds of sushi rolls and hand rolls .

But then that album came out, and I thought, ' What is this?' I wanted to. It felt like it delivered a molecular shock to every part of my body. After listening to that album, it is probably the album I have listened to the most in my life . It's really amazing. I knew Herbie Hancock and had listened to Alfonso Johnson's music , but personally, I did n't know him. That album was the catalyst for me to listen to and learn from Milton Ko Budaiski's other recordings .

At that time, I didn't know that what I was listening to was Ko Budaiski's music , nor did I understand that it was a collective phenomenon or a special phenomenon . Back in 2003, it was much harder to get albums , and people were really lucky just to be able to burn CDs or copy them onto MP3 players . yes . I also borrowed records from the library and listened to them. I tried to expose myself to his music as much as possible by using all sorts of methods like that .

To be honest, I might sound a bit old-fashioned, but I remember people used to bring me records, CDs, or cassette tapes in the early 90s. Discovering music like that was a really special experience. It felt like I had joined a secret club . Um, you know. Unless you listened to local college radio, listened to a program hosted by a quirky person doing a freeform show at 7 a.m., or used a streaming service in the college district, you could n't listen to music, could you? I wish there had been someone, like my brother or someone else, who would just bring me an album and say, "Listen to this ." It felt like entering Narnia .

It was truly amazing to be able to have such an experience. And actually, rather than someone burning a CD for me , the relationships I form with musicians I like, my passion for music, and the excitement of wanting to share it are the most common ways I encounter new music . Or you might hear it briefly somewhere. I don't have the Shazam app on my phone . So I always go to the barista, the waitress, or another staff member and ask, " What is this?" They often ask me that .

I remember the day Lauryn Hill's album 'The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill' was released. I did n't know Lauryn Hill at all back then . It was probably around 1999 . I don't remember exactly , but I went to a vintage shop when I was about 15 or 16, and I remember that album CD was playing there. When that song first came out, I thought, "Wow, what is this? Is this even possible? Who is this person? What is this? " I did n't know it was the person from Sister Act.

You get what I mean, right? "Good heavens , is this possible? That's unbelievable!" It felt like this. I think it's really cool to encounter music so instinctively. It is not because of the story behind the music or the singer's image , but the sound itself that captivates the heart. Yes, and um, that experience is still like that even now . It's fun. There are all sorts of ways we can engage with media, especially image-centric media for musicians, but ultimately, what captivates us is the sound, isn't it?

No matter how cool it looks, in the end, the sound has to move us. Of course, I like looking cool, but please don't misunderstand. I cherish the moments when sound touches my heart . Hmm, I don't know if this is true or not, but I hope it is . I think that is a really amazing story. From what I read, there was a story about how you saw Yo-Yo Ma on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood when you were four years old and wanted to imitate him . No , it was n't because of the yo-yo effect.

He is a truly great and amazing performer , and I am forever grateful for him appearing on the show . yes . It was because of Bach's Cello Suites. Especially Bach's Canons, Cello Suites, and Inventions. The violin had absolutely nothing to do with what I had been playing for 10 years . I just listened to that music, and although I don't know exactly what happened , it was music I had never heard before, and I was deeply moved . I just wanted to do that. No, actually, I'm not even sure if I wanted to do it .

When I was five years old , back when we were young children, everyone had their own logic. I said, " Mom, I want to play that. " I remember that was an instrument called a cello . I want to play that . I want to do that. At the time, I did n't even know what that meant. At that time, there were free or affordable music programs in our city, and my mom put in a lot of effort to find a way for me to receive music education without paying.

It is thanks to the great hard work of the professional musicians who maintained the music program until the 90s, or rather, until the late 80s . However, there were no cellos for children in our city. There was nothing but a violin. So that was what I could do , but actually, it was n't what I wanted to do. However, they said, "We will let you know when you get a little bigger and find a cello that fits your size, " but they never did. Every year when I go to change the bow hair, I ask, "Do you have a cello?" I asked, but there still wasn't any .

So I just accepted it as my fate. I have to play this instrument, so I guess it ca n't be helped. As a result, my skills gradually improved, and I became able to do various things with this instrument . As a result, I ended up listening to pieces by artists like Mendelssohn and Rimsky-Korsakov. I was able to maintain my interest , but after switching to bass and finding out that people play Bach's cello suites on the bass, I thought, ' This is it!' I thought, 'This is the only thing I want to do.

' and. Whatever the homework was, I just thought, 'What do I have to do to play these songs ?' That was the only thought I had. I have been tormented by that thought for a long time, and I still am . I ca n't play those songs anymore. I was able to play for a very brief moment when I majored in classical bass at Portland State University, though . However, those songs speak of the influence of sound, where timeless geniuses bring something pure from another dimension and convey it to us.

Milton is that kind of person, and so are Herbie Hancock, Wayne Lawson, and Paul Simon. Bach is the same way. Just as we analyze Bach's musical techniques today , people at that time did not apply such standards of analysis. They simply created sacred music by Bach and his contemporary musicians, many of whom have been forgotten . Their goal was to awaken people to the sacred and enable them to connect with God, and it really worked. Like magic. And I think, why are musicians like Bach, whom you just mentioned, loved for such a long time?

Why are they remembered for so long ? I don't think it's simply because they create timeless music . If you compare it to music made 40, 80, or 60 years ago , it still sounds fresh even today . If you listen to Bach's music , it is surprising how much of it sounds avant-garde . It sounds as fresh as Erik Satie's music for over 100 years . It's really fascinating how much of his music sounds modern . In my opinion, what we consider 'modern' is precisely people showing themselves just as they are.

Yes, that's right. Despite factors that influence the general flow or direction of the music, people show themselves just as they are. And I don't think that is inherently negative . We all end up imitating the music of the people around us, do n't we? I end up imitating my parents' music. As you know, we tend to follow the people we respect . The same goes for music. We become immersed in a certain sound , and while maintaining our own originality, that sound remains unchanged. I think that what is called the avant-garde emerges when someone perfectly expresses their own auditory senses and creates their own unique color without being bound by the musical aesthetics they were educated in.

I believe that we humans are inevitably sacred and eternally connected to the divine , and that link lies right within our true inner selves . It cannot exist in a performance or a fabricated appearance. Whether I am an artist in any field, when I engage in creative work that springs from my inner voice, I think, "Wow, what is that?" I witnessed and experienced sounds that elicited admiration. And I think we are influenced by some sacred energy that we can feel. It's because of that uniqueness .

The uniqueness mentioned here does not mean that individuals say, "I am novel and original." That is not what I meant. What I am talking about is everyone's unique frequency, the uniqueness of their frequency-based essence . That is sacred . It is sacred. We were born with that essence . And I think that when that uniqueness blossoms and is expressed, we encounter that sacred spark within others . And we feel it. Something is different. We feel that. We feel it even when Prince sings "Jack You Off ." When his sincere soul is conveyed to us without compromise , we feel it in a sacred place .

That doesn't mean I'm trying to belittle their technical skills . You mentioned Erik Satie, Bach , and Milton Wayne . I don't mean to belittle it, but there are so many people with incredible technical skills , and it seems like there is something profound within them that we cannot truly understand . Maybe I just don't understand . But music seems to transcend our understanding. It seems to go beyond all thoughts about what music is, what it isn't, and even what we like and dislike, and directly touch some part of our inner selves .

It's just like how the sound gets amplified when you sing a specific note inside a room . Conversely, when the frequency of authenticity enters us , it seems to touch the true part of our inner selves and influence us . It feels like you've become more of yourself . Yes, I think it makes us realize once again that we are biological beings and are filled with inexplicable energy receptors . This is not magic or a far-fetched story. It is a really realistic story . I think there is some kind of energy.

I'm not talking about the biological aspect right now . Of course, there are many studies and hypotheses regarding the influence of music on the evolution of our species, language development, and the ability to form relationships and maintain stable social structures . But what I really want to talk about is our existence, the mysterious dimension of our humanity . Even the most skeptical, rational, and atheist person will be influenced by music stemming from divine authenticity in ways that are incomprehensible to reason. Here, the word 'sacred' is used in a broad sense to encompass everything that transcends our understanding and control .

So, whether you are an artist, a writer , a dancer, or a painter, the moment you decide to express what you actually hear, it is like letting go of control. yes . This is because you don't know what the effect will be or where the inspiration will lead . For some people, doing that as an artist is also a frightening thing. However, the energy expressed through that courage or effort travels along the frequency and is transmitted to the listener, doesn't it? yes . yes. I know that your mother took jazz lessons , and I know that she was drawn to music when she was young .

However, many children are drawn to musical instruments, and some continue to become proficient even as adults , but only a very small number become like you. "I wasn't a child prodigy. I never was, either . I was n't that kind of person at all." I saw you saying that. Of course, upon hearing that, many people thought, "He's probably just pretending to be humble. It can't be the truth." You will think that . But you sincerely believe that, and it seems you know deep down that it is true.

Then, what was it that created such a strong connection between playing a musical instrument and you ? Was the connection established quickly, or did it take some time? Well, I think back to when I visited other communities where making a living from music or receiving music education is not common . yes . It reminds me of when I visited a rural village in the Brazilian Amazon. There was no place there where I could make a living from music. There was no music education or music classes, either.

However, the music that the children naturally came to learn was always unfolding around them, there were instruments, and the children never gave up and kept trying. And essentially, based on my experience in that area, whether you played as much as you wanted or not , no one said, "You're doing it wrong" or "That's not right." There was no mention of "you can never succeed without practicing" either. Based on what I witnessed— of course, I am an outsider and adding my own interpretation—this is how I understood it.

An atmosphere where music exists around children and is regarded as both a community activity and a natural right encourages them to play to their heart's content. "And from the moment they can pick up an instrument until they become adults and can play, they do that every day or a few times a week. They will eventually be able to play . I caught a glimpse of the way that community ceaselessly cultivates music , and seeing it brought me great sadness. This is because it highlighted the difference between this and how most people in our American culture approach music, understand themselves in relation to music , and understand its function .

From what I have heard, in that community, songs and music come from the forest . They believe that the knowledge and healing power the forest wishes to convey to people are contained within the music . So, singing those songs is like keeping oneself healthy. It is maintaining an attitude of respect for the wisdom and knowledge of the forest and the earth. And that is one of the reasons why songs are always played. Just as it keeps us healthy . It literally sustains us ." As you know, we do n't want to waste the gift the forest has given us, as it knows us well and understands better than anyone how human society should function.

Whether it's a music garden or not. Yes, that visit was a truly amazing, transformative , and forever- changing experience. It made me think completely differently about what music education can be , what music and community can be, what role music plays for an individual, what the source of inspiration is, whose music we listen to , what the source of music is , and why we share music with each other . It was a really big change . I realized that there were miraculously a few similarities to how I got into music, but actually, it was completely different from back then.

For various reasons, in the late 1980s in Portland, there were many adults who deeply understood the power and healing ability of music . You knew how music can change us, and even though they weren't trying to make them professional musicians , you knew how important it is to teach children instruments and take them seriously . This is really important . You all need to learn . It is essential. This is the heritage of our humanity. People like Hazel Diller Renzo, Dorothy McCormick, Tara Memory, Janice Skrogins, Ronnie Harrison, and Greg McKelvey felt that they needed to create music programs while juggling busy lives and taking care of their families and children .

Music programs should be easily accessible to everyone and affordable. I thought that we should provide instruments for free to children who do not have them and provide them with proper music education . Here, 'proper music education' refers to education that helps you realize how important music is and how essential it is to understand what music is . Thanks to my life and journey , my parents or guardians were not overly strict about music . You knew that I liked making music, and you didn't force me to deviate from the idea that it was something I wanted to do simply because it was fun .

So I had the余裕 (leisure/space) to feel music like a friend, a joyful presence that made me feel good . Music did n't feel like some kind of obligation. I had a bit of that feeling in music programs . The teachers knew how much power music has in keeping us healthy, and they did not want young children's interest in music to be diverted elsewhere, such as wanting to watch cartoons . yes . So, in that sense, I get a similar feeling to what I experienced at Aldea a few years ago .

Of course, it was completely different from back then , and the sadness over the disconnection in music education methods and the way music is taught still remains. Although I was there , the common thread in everything I experienced was that adults constantly kept music close by, made it accessible to children at any time , introduced them to music at their level, helped them understand that music is for them, showed them that adults are really good at music, and made them think that children should be able to do it too .

The environment in which I grew up was exactly like that . And I know that even now, small traces of such scenes remain in many cities. That is how I got into music . It was not a miraculous event . Of course, it was a miracle that all the elements happened at once, but I just thought, "Wow , I can play the violin!" It was n't meant to be done. Many adults say, "This is how you do it." He taught me that, and I had a lot of room to grow within it.

I remember participating in the summer camp hosted by the Oregon Chamber Music Association every year. I wanted to write a woodwind quintet there. I had no idea what to do, and I still don't really know, but I was probably about 12 years old . The teachers just said, "Okay, then. Play a woodwind quintet at the final recital . If you can find kids to play with, go ahead. " So I formed my own small woodwind quintet and played. Was the title Ara Mart, or what was it again?

I don't remember exactly . I think it was named after the initials of the ensemble members who performed . However, such cases were rare. It was a really rare occurrence back then. These days, it seems that many music educators encourage children to be broader and bolder in realizing that they are composers and that they already have a living passion within them. However, in the past, many children did not have such an opportunity. yes . If there is any basis to emphasize the importance of music education, it is you who presented that basis .

Right? That's really true . That's a really hard story to believe. Because I have gained so many opportunities and exposure . When was the last time someone told you that you were special or different ? I've heard that a lot. yes . I remember that even though I was one of the kids who wasn't very good at music , I consistently came to the concert venue . I think what people recognized in me was probably genuine curiosity and passion, not something forced . "Ah, this little kid is really crazy about music ." That's what I thought .

"Other kids might not have shown it as clearly. And , well, I started composing really early . I would make short pieces or take ideas from other places and modify them . I remember being in the practice room of the cultural recreation band formed by the people I just mentioned . They started this because they realized that jazz education programs were only taking place in white schools in predominantly white neighborhoods, and that there was absolutely no jazz education in downtown areas—that is, in schools with many children of color.

They thought that wasn't right . So they persuaded the Portland Parks Department to prove that jazz music is a cultural recreation activity. As a result, they received funding for this activity from the Portland Parks Department . It's truly amazing. They also received a donation of space from Portland Community College . It is truly fascinating that they accomplished all of this purely out of their love and creativity, without any scientific basis . And that is exactly what I wanted." I am reminded of the things I gained from private lessons , and I remember one of the lessons I had with the excellent jazz guitarist here, Mr.

Dan Balmer . I asked, "I wrote a song like this; may I play it for you?" When I asked, the teacher said, "It looks like the little child moved an adult !" He looked at me with that peculiar expression you make when you think something like that . However, that was n't the intention, and the teacher said, "Keep writing songs like that ." I remember you saying that. I remember that moment . I also participated in the Mel Brown Jazz Camp , and there too, I wrote a song for the piano and asked the teacher to sing it for me.

I think the teachers laughed as if I were trying to accomplish something big with my small talent. However, my teachers really encouraged me and allowed me to sing that song at the concert . At that time, I said, "You are really special and talented." It wasn't that kind of feeling. It was like saying, " Yeah, fine. If you want to do it, go ahead. Come on. Yeah, you can do it too . You can play it, or you can give it a try." It was like this.

"But for the first time, someone said, 'No, try music .'" "That's what he told me." "Well, I was about to enter my final year at Berklee College of Music, and I had completely grown tired of music . Why? Because it felt so ordinary . It was really boring. What on earth happened ? Like in the movie 'Whiplash'— oh, I haven't seen that movie. Anyway, it just felt endlessly boring . No. I was culturally shocked by the fact that the exchange of musical knowledge was held in commodified institutions.

Um... I was culturally shocked meeting the highest echelons of the jazz world; people there acted as if they owned the knowledge, and there was an atmosphere of competition over who knew the most, who was the most authoritative, and who was the real deal . It was so different from a cooperative atmosphere . It wasn't like that at all . It felt like they were saying, 'I am the best , I can do it, and you are insignificant .'" It’s nothing until we can do what we can.

"And that's just like," what? What on earth is wrong with you guys? That's what I thought . I was 17 or 18, so I could n't really understand it, but everything was so hard that I struggled to finish school as quickly as possible. That was inside the school , and outside the school was really cool . There were musicians and other students from all over the world . We had a really good time, but it seems like that kind of arrogance was spread among jazz musicians.

It's like saying, " You worked hard and received a scholarship, so you've made it this far . This is all you can get." It seemed like they were saying that. The whole world is in crisis, so are we really obsessing over things like this? Honestly, it was ridiculous. I have always been passionate about world politics and environmental justice, but I wondered if dedicating so much time to a single thing was really just for this . It seemed like something wasn't quite right . So I quit and tried to get a degree in political science.

But it was really surprising . Seeing how the adults treated it as if it were a matter of life and death, everything seemed so serious . To be more precise, while it was serious, it was different from the perspective that 'this is people's liberation music in a socio-historical context .' If we had approached it from that perspective and people had thought only self-centeredly, the feeling would have been different. Then, we need to realize that we must respect the lineage of the music to which we belong, how this music was born, what it meant to people , and how it created space for liberation, new ideas, new paradigms, and political movements .

But that wasn't what they were trying to say . It's just... how should I put it, "Oh my, have n't you heard that song? It's seriously funny. Oh my, have you really heard it?" It was like this. I thought, 'This isn't the mature look I want to be. ' Then, a good opportunity arose to form a band with Gary Burton and Pat Masseney . So we used to be in a school band ... ah, no, it was a school band. I was in a school band .

It was a school band project . Pat Metheny was really kind and generous, and as I was passing by, he asked, "What are your plans after graduation?" I asked . I said, "I don't think I'll go to school . I'm going to quit music and get a degree in political science ." That's what I said. Then he said, "I don't think that's right. You have a special talent. If you hone it, you'll do really well ." He said that. Hmm, I'm not sure . I really respected him.

I didn't know much about his music , but I knew he was a great person , and his presence and dignity gave me a fresh feeling, completely different from the strange and chaotic things I had encountered so far . He told me that, and when I heard it, it felt like he was speaking very directly. I was surprised that an adult took the time to tell me that , so I thought, 'You can study politics later.' So, actually, it seems like I had absolutely no intention of continuing music for quite a long time, not just at a single point in time .

Yes, there are two reasons why I went to Berkeley . First, it is because I liked someone who lived in Boston and was going to MIT , and second, because I received a full scholarship. I had absolutely no intention of leaving Portland State University. I majored in classical bass and minored in jazz. Jazz studies was my minor. I didn't know I could live my life through music. I just really didn't have any plans . Unfortunately, when I was about 15 or 16, I was in a rock band and doing small performances around Portland, but the fee was only about 40 or 50 dollars.

There was absolutely no one around me who thought, "If I practice hard, I can live a successful life as a musician." When I was 17, I had a really shortsighted mindset . When I was 17, I auditioned for the University of Berkeley and received an acceptance letter. Back then, when I found out that the person I had a crush on was going to MIT, I thought, "Oh, we're in the same city." So I made up my mind, "Okay, I should go to MIT too ." Besides, the fact that I was the first in my family to go to college also held great significance .

You understand what I mean, right ? Yes, um, but I did n't really have any grand ambitions of becoming a musician . Various things just kept happening, and that alone was fun enough. I felt a great sense of satisfaction, and receiving attention from adults was also something I wanted. So, sadly, and unavoidably, there were many other factors that made me dedicate myself to music. And as time passed, my thoughts on music and the possibility of making a living from it evolved alongside my growth. Now I know why I do music, but back then, those thoughts were just in my head.

I believe you were 20 years old when you graduated from Berklee College of Music, and you performed at President Obama's Nobel Peace Prize ceremony within four or five years of graduation . Yes, such strange things do happen. No, it wasn't me who did that; it's because Mr. Stevie Wonder listened to the song I wrote thinking of him. It's really amazing . Pop songs have power. While writing that song, I thought, 'Ah, this sounds like a Stevie Wonder song .' At that time, I was getting a lot of inspiration from him.

It's a song called 'Fall In,' and he said he heard it on a radio program. I think it was a program he hosted, and I believe it was broadcast from the city where he lived. And you contacted me and asked if I wanted to participate in an event you were hosting . I think it was an event called 'Room Full of Toys, House Full of Toys' . yes . He liked the song, and afterwards, he asked me to perform with him at an event held at the White House .

It was President Obama at the time , and when President Obama saw me, he thought of my music and asked me to perform at the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony . And to add to that, it is really too late that I was offered this job . There were probably first and second-ranked candidates, but I think I was the only one who happened to have the time . no. no. no. no. no. Well, it's fine . yes. Yes, I was still there . But, um, just saying, 'Oh, that's it!' It did n't feel like that.

It was just like that , and um, yes, those small things I did 10 steps ago somehow ended up making me who I am today. yes. yes. Well, you've been really prolific . I think you just released your ninth studio album , and you also have other albums like a live album, right? Well, before we talk about this new album again , I’d like to hear a little more about how your musical style and approach have evolved over time . So, you made a live streaming album, you know.

I’d like to bring that up for a moment. It seems like a really innovative and creative way of approaching music. It’s like not knowing what the result will be , or just not knowing what the result will be . You live-streamed the work process for 3 to 4 days, right? Well, I practiced a lot for that . Not only I, but the musicians I work with have also put in a lot of preparation. I went to Concord Studios, and there was a very small studio in New York .

It was a place like a kind of rehearsal studio. I asked Matt— maybe Justin, or maybe it was one of the two—to go with me and practice the live streaming . I went to the studio in the morning and said, "Alright, Fern Fernando de Ro, I'll start now ." I practiced like this . That is how I do it—how should I put it?—try making something, shaping it a bit , adding lyrics, and then call Matt in the afternoon. We practiced repeating that process as quickly as possible .

To find the rhythm and gain confidence in the process . And I've been doing a lot of that practice for the past few months. I really often thought, 'Okay, let's give it a try, ' and, though it might be proof of how deeply Milton is rooted in my mind and motivation, 'Let's quickly make a song in the Milton style .' But what's interesting when you find out later is that a significant number of the songs we think, "Wow, that was Milton's masterpiece, " were actually written in 20 minutes or in a hurry because they had to be finished within a day .

I didn't know it at the time, though . Anyway, I practiced a lot to get into that process . One of the things I wanted to do was because I felt that I was being misunderstood, portrayed with a false image , and distorted, both personally and musically . Could you tell me why you felt that way ? Well, in some ways, that assessment or analysis is correct. Thanks to my appearance, gender, youth, and pretty looks, I was able to easily pass through a gateway that takes other artists decades or they cannot get past at all.

Did you feel that those points were unfair advantages? yes . When it comes to skill, dedication, and time invested, this music industry is completely unfair . It's completely unfair. I lived among jazz musicians . yes . So I am well aware of how great their effort and dedication are . So it is really sad to feel like I am being lifted up by someone , stepping forward onto the path while my friends who work tirelessly fail to seize proper opportunities . From what I just heard— and I apologize for interrupting—it seems you felt a bit guilty about that situation , but that is something all musicians go through .

Even Mozart, or anyone else, whether fair or unfair, for whatever reason, or due to some coercion, ends up going through such things . Yes, no, I did n't feel guilty. I was well aware of the situation myself . I could only do as much as I could . I was able to play at that level with the skills I had . I couldn't practice 22 hours a day like other people do, who practice for 10 hours a day . There were attempts to make it seem like that was natural , and that was really difficult .

And I knew very well, 'Ah, I'm getting this opportunity not because of my music.' There are 15 people doing great work, and the one chosen for their pretty looks is likely selected because people know that their talent can be commercialized . I understand that. I don't feel guilty . I just think that . However, people who didn't know my music , didn't know I was practicing , and didn't even know who my mentor was made all sorts of speculations about me. Just because she was pretty, I had all sorts of thoughts.

"Ah, as far as I remember, did you write about going with the saxophonist Bob Mover ?" I even used to think that . Because sometimes our eyes can overwhelm our hearing . yes . We often make guesses in an instant . At lightning speed . And imagine that you are participating in something where you know how much time you have invested . However, imagine that as soon as you appear somewhere , it is concluded that you cannot work and do not know what you are doing .

It’s just a pretty face that some power put you in that position . Of course, some of that is true. It is clear that powerful figures who intend to use me have placed me in a specific position . But that doesn't mean I didn't try . Anyway, I want to tell you that this trivial and ridiculous story I am about to tell you is not the only reason why I received such attention. This is simply the result of a combination of various factors, such as how my agent, manager, and label viewed me .

Watching them, I connected them to my musical talent . But I remember having a jam session with Bob Mover . We played standards, original songs, and blues . At that time, an elderly jazz musician who was in the room came in when the performance was almost over . We were playing the blues when he came over and said, "Wow, miss. You produce different notes every time you play following the blues style ." He said that. At that time, I thought, 'What is that person thinking ?' How can I be here?

What is this? I had that thought. It's just like that. Those words were deeply embedded in my bones, and after receiving such treatment for decades, I felt that ' Ah, even the people I work with , the so-called people working for me, don't really know what I do, what is important to me, or why and how I create .' So, I thought about the most efficient and clear way to convey who I am and what kind of person I am as a creator. By showing rather than explaining with words.

hmm. Then, suddenly, it occurred to me that what I value most in my art and work is creativity . I mean the process of how music is born and the reason behind it. However, in the process of explaining and justifying my work, its essence is often distorted. Usually, people only hear the works I create after a year, two years, or even longer . So I wanted to create something that would allow people to approach the source of my creativity as closely as possible and without distortion .

That power is unleashed within a community of other artists . You cannot exist alone . How can I do that ? And together with Sonam Petri, who was my friend at the time, I conceived this idea , laid the groundwork, and made a soundboard. Sonam helped me come up with a story so I could explain to people what I was trying to do . Amidst flashes of inspiration all night long, the thought crossed my mind, ' Ah, let's try it for 77 hours.' What people buy is like a record of the creative process .

In other words, a product is the creative process itself. It is an unfiltered creative process. That is exactly what we make and what we give. And a streaming platform called Oid partnered with my label and, as you mentioned, provided support for the very expensive production costs. They were really generous and stepped forward to create a window for me to show what I wanted to do . And so, I finally managed to do it . Do you think that people's skepticism can actually be a driving force that stimulates creativity ?

Of course, it's always like that. What I mean is, that is also a legacy I inherited as a Black person . It's like saying, "Ah, right, you do n't think so." Just like doing it . Of course, I don't want to claim that is the main cause, but our pride and the thought, "No , no, no, I won't let you spread lies about me . I wo n't let you spread lies about me ." That is the thought at play . As a result, the social pressure that leads to such thoughts comes to be regarded as more important than the individual who said them .

Even my bass teacher, whose bass is over there in the corner, asked me in the early days, " Don't you really want to be a singer? Playing the bass is really hard work." He said that. At that moment, I said, "What did you say? You shouldn't be saying things like that." I remember thinking that . It was difficult to assert yourself when you were young, wasn't it? " I must have been about 14 or 15," 'Good heavens, him , and you too?' I remember having that thought.

Brutus, even you? You know what that means, right? I definitely have a rebellious nature . Because of that, you sometimes get into trouble , and sometimes things become unnecessarily difficult. But I also have drive . It means there is drive within . Yes, because I like that . That is the important point . All of this is n't for anyone else. Thanks to this, I can make a living doing work I love . It gives me great joy . Where does this temperament come from? Is it congenital, or does it come from a specific place?

Well, I think we know what we will do when we are born . I think we come into this world and decide to do a specific thing. Is it a choice we can all make, like most people? Well, what I want to say is that I think our soul is something much broader than physical experience in this life . If your soul knows what you must do and the reason you came into this world, I believe that even if the process is very difficult or filled with suffering, the time, place, and environment are prepared for you to further develop the work that your soul knows .

I definitely think of it as something like a contract with my ancestors . I feel that the things I can do and the many things given to me are the providence of my ancestors, and I believe they are the workings of forces that strive to maintain mutually beneficial relationships with gratitude, even if I do not fully understand them. Ever since I was young, unlike the training I had received, I have known and felt that I could sometimes accomplish things that seemed impossible . Whenever that happened, I thought, 'Something different is happening.' And what I'm talking about isn't some creepy possession .

It simply means that we sincerely believe our ancestors are with us and cooperating . Most of us do not have a cultural framework that helps us understand and intentionally accept such phenomena, but I think it is definitely a spiritual power and our ancestors saying, " Oh, oh, oh, come back this way, " that keeps bringing music back to the center . It seems that all the good decisions I have made in music have appeared in a perfectly formed form within my mind, as if inspiration suddenly surged forth .

Even I thought, "What on earth is this ?" It was to the point where I thought that . But there was a certain power there that I learned to trust through life . "Okay, this is something important. I don't know what on earth it is, but I'm going to follow along and figure it out, and try not to let my pride get the better of me ." It was something like this. So I mainly express my gratitude. And ancestors also include people who are not genetically related .

yes . For example, the musical ancestors who created this space of all possibilities for me to dive into. They left me all the records and materials from the beginning so that I could absorb and naturally accept everything that is currently possible in music. So, especially as I got a little older, I came to understand better the sacrifices made by the musicians in my musical lineage . Indeed, one of the driving forces behind my actions was paying tribute to what they did for me and for all of us .

I mean, that feeling I had when I first heard Milton's performance . To hear that performance, I had to make many sacrifices and give up other things, and it also required courage. So many factors were at play. And that helped you . Those moments make me feel a positive sense of responsibility as well . I may not be as good as I'd like, but thanks to that sense of responsibility, I feel a desire to create, give, and perform the things I hear . When I think about how hard the people who came before me fought to do the basics, it makes me feel like I need to work even harder .

I have to pour everything I have into this life . Because they opened the way for me . So, even though you have won the Unknown Award five times, do you still suffer from self-doubt from time to time? Hmm, that's healthy. I do n't think the self-doubt itself is the problem. Rather, ' what on earth is going on ?' What am I truly afraid of? It serves as an opportunity to think about ' When something comes up that I want to do, ah, I want to do it, but something else says, "No." That's what they say.

Is it because they're worried I won't look cool ? Is it because they're worried the people who invested in me will be disappointed ? There must be various reasons. Is it natural to feel such emotions ? Yes, that's life these days. We need to feel those emotions . Should I call it a healthy process of inquiry ? With time and space, summoning the courage, ask yourself, " What is this? What is this doubt or resistance that refuses to move forward ?" Ask yourself this question. Then you will be able to refine the language used to express those emotions .

Little by little, I thought, "Ah, this is my pride." Or, "Ah, this is what I'm afraid of. I think I'll regret it if I do this." You come to realize that. Sometimes, self-doubt, doubt, or pauses set in, the reason being, "Yes, I will do it. But what else is needed to make that inspiration truly alive and to execute it sustainably ?" It is because of that thought . There are many times in my life when inspiration suddenly strikes. In that case, I'd say, "Okay, it's 9 AM now, so I have to finish by 2 PM." Well , it's something like that.

You just have to go and do it . "Wait, what kind of support is needed? Who would be the best partner to bring this inspiration to life beautifully and in a way that respects its spirit?" Without even having a moment to think about it . Sometimes, self-doubt— or what might be considered self-doubt—comes the moment you realize that you are making decisions that do not properly bring out the essence of inspiration. And I would like to say a few words to the young musicians listening to this broadcast right now.

You are under tremendous pressure and coercion from countless individuals and groups around you who have no interest in the knowledge you possess . hmm. Is that the very essence of the creativity flowing from within you? They are only interested in taking advantage of your relationship . The relationship they have with you could be selling your albums, taking a portion of your concert earnings , or simply hanging out with you . Because people like things that sparkle. "Oh, you're a sparkling presence that catches the eye. If I hang out with you, I could get attention and benefit too." It's like this .

So, the doubts that sometimes arise may be your inner intuition or warning signals sent by your intuition. " Wait, I don't think this is right." Like this. And in such a situation, it is really difficult to slow down with courage and dignity, delve deep into the problem, and ask critical questions . No matter how good someone's intentions were, it was important to know the difference between "This person wants to help me " and "Okay, let's have this person help me with this project ." I knew the limitations of my work, and I had to know how to preserve the essence of my work even when collaborating with labels, agents, festivals, etc.

Refining those aspects is a lifelong journey , and sometimes the emotion of 'doubt' burns up. I think that self-doubt is very healthy and important, and can be the driving force that ignites creativity . I'm curious about what you think when you start the composition process . I've talked to so many artists about this topic . For many artists, composing seems to be a very physically and mentally demanding task, beyond just being difficult. It’s like having to go into a dark room where you can’t see anything and create something.

So I'm curious how you approach composing . It seems like a really difficult task . I have two thoughts. First, there is no way to convey the actual physical sensation of giving birth to another person. We only see cute babies in movies, but perhaps seeing a baby being born and breastfeeding in person is so lovely. And when a baby starts walking, especially when a two-year-old throws a tantrum, it is also enjoyable. "haha." Like this. For those who have absolutely no idea what the childbirth process is actually like, we would have no choice but to fill in the blanks with our imagination.

Because all we know is what it looked like before childbirth . If you have ever had sexual intercourse, you might know a part of what happens before childbirth . When you see things like happy families, cute babies, and children going to school, you think, "Ah, I see." I'm just thinking about connecting the two things . However, no one can know what it is actually like to give birth to a baby—that black box-like experience— until they go through it themselves . There is no way to know.

And strangely enough, as I was talking like this, I realized that most people have hardly ever heard of the field of childbirth . All I can think is that it is vaguely scary or vaguely beautiful . For example, "Did you get a painkiller injection ?" Same thoughts. These things are too simple and not specific. It is difficult to properly understand unless you are about to give birth or have experience with childbirth . The same goes for composing. Toni Morrison 's nephew said this to me .

Avery Willis Hoffman is a brilliant and outstanding scholar who currently serves as the Director of the Brown University Music Center. Anyway, her niece said that. When Avery started writing—it was n't composing, but it was very similar— he was shocked by all the pain and thought, "I know how to write so well. I know so clearly what I want to write , so what is this pain? It's so cruel." They say that . Then her aunt Toni Morrison asked, "My child, do n't you know that writing is pain?" That's what he said.

Avery said, "You have to accept pain . And the true joy of that pain is that when you finish, it is like a gift in the writing process itself . Once you accept the pain, I feel like writing becomes smoother or easier . And it seems that our culture and physiology also have a tendency to avoid pain and discomfort. We tend to regard discomfort as sacred, but most of us have never experienced discomfort in a conscious context." He said that. "Ah, this usually means something is wrong ." It is easy to think that , but sometimes that discomfort is actually a sign that something is right.

Tremendous changes are taking place, and tremendous energy is flowing . It is as if the body and existence itself are changing to adapt to this transitional period. It is a process of accepting something completely different from usual and changing . I would like to talk more honestly about this pain and hardship, and the beauty and catharsis felt within them . That way, when people have this kind of experience, they won't think something is wrong and run away . The unfortunate thing is, we just said, "Yes, I wrote this song ." That is what I'm saying .

Really? What was the process like ? You get the urge to ask... You understand what I mean, right? I wish you would be a little more honest and talk about how difficult this process is—that it is really, really hard. And when you hear stories about a song being completed in 20 minutes as if by magic , it is usually because that person endured the process by repeating it countless times . It's similar to honing a skill . No, rather than a technique, it’s more like the conviction that I clearly know what I’m going to create and that enduring this difficult process is a healthy and cool part of the music production process .

It's like someone asking Jerry Allen, "Why aren't more young people playing jazz?" When asked, she replied, " Because it is too difficult." It's like saying that. yes that's right. The difficulty is truly beyond imagination . Jazz is a genre of music where it is incredibly difficult to improve your skills. Accepting that difficulty and thinking, "Ah, this is going to be really hard ." When you think that, that pain is good pain. It is the pain that brings about change. It feels like discomfort is a necessary condition .

It's part of the process. that's right. The result depends almost entirely on that inconvenience. Yes, and we already know that. But there has to be a limit to that as well. It’s not like I’m saying you have to suffer on purpose . It seems like many people struggle while thinking, "I have to suffer because I am an artist ." Actually, it's like recovery . I think it would be better to use that analogy. Sports analysis is fine, but people in recovery always say, "Don't give up five minutes before a miracle happens ." I am not personally in recovery, but I participate in Al-Anon (Alcoholics Anonymous) and know many wonderful people who are in recovery .

I think one of the reasons we feel uncomfortable is that we are stepping out of an area that has worked well until now . And now we are in a situation where we must cross a threshold to grow, or find a new way of being or expression, or a new color . To return to the topic of composition, that space is a space of healing. To borrow the metaphor of recovery a bit more, as we all know from our own therapeutic experiences, there are moments during the treatment process when we begin to doubt the therapist .

It is trying to free itself from the discomfort of facing the parts of the ego that need to grow. The ego says, " I don't need this. I've already finished everything. I've found a solution ." He performs all sorts of acrobatics to deceive himself into thinking that. And if you endure that pain, focus on the emotions you don't want to face or feel, accept them as part of yourself, embrace everything you have to face or navigate , and recognize that all of this is happening within a larger context , whether it is your creative process or the entire song you are composing, you will be able to create greater possibilities .

It is like the pain of facing the parts of your inner self that do not yet know how to exist . But I know you want to face those parts . That is probably the reason you are in recovery or sitting at the piano . And we need to remind ourselves that we are going through this process to grow and heal . If we were already familiar with these emotions, we would n't be standing at this threshold. That is also helpful. However, I do n't want to talk about pain for the sake of pain .

Hmm, I think it's similar to the 'clean pain' that Les Ma Mena Kem talks about . It is a feeling you experience when trying to live differently or in a new way; even though it is closer to the lifestyle you want, your body is not yet accustomed to it . That is why I try so hard to cling to what is familiar. That subtle tension feels a bit uncomfortable, but you might eventually get used to it . That is exactly what I meant . Yes, I think it is connected to all forms of creative activity .

It is also related to curiosity. I think that if you are a curious person, you must have the courage to endure discomfort and expose yourself to it . yes . And we are n't superheroes. That can sometimes be painful . Damn it, it looks like it'll take me as long as everyone else to go around this neighborhood . There are times when I have that thought, too. Sometimes, because of the miraculous things we encounter, we are led to think that we are not human, or that we are beings not bound by the laws of causality or the laws of causal relationships .

And sometimes, that pain may simply be the death of the ego, the collapse of the ego , or the disintegration of the ego . I wonder why it doesn't get resolved automatically like magic when I touch it . You understand what I mean, right? It is healthy for us to remember the fact that we are governed by processes in many ways. No matter how much we practice and do things we can control, the creative process is ultimately a phenomenon in which we are merely passengers following along .

The pain of having to face the fact that we cannot control the process can sometimes be really difficult. And sometimes, we fight against that pain and try to force things to go the way we want . And looking back later, I think, "Damn, I should have spent another week finishing those lyrics ." There are many cases where you end up thinking that. You get what I mean, right? Um, yes. I'm not sure if this is an example of discomfort, but since Milton Nasci Mentor was your personal hero , I think you must have felt a bit of discomfort at the thought of approaching him and wanting to release an album together .

I did n't approach you first. I got involved in this very unexpectedly . I remember being at his house , probably before the release of Emily's D + Evolution album. I didn't know what to do with that music , and I didn't even know where it came from . I was wavering, and then suddenly I realized, 'Ah, I just had to appear as this character and do it.' Emily was the character who appeared on that album . yes that's right. I remember sitting at the piano .

It was a room downstairs at his house, and I'm not sure if we were planning to do a concert together or something else, but I played him a few songs and asked which ones he wanted to sing . yes . It felt just like a dream. I remember he liked the song 'Judas' . Oh, right. While doing so, "I really liked that song." That's what I said . After that, nothing special happened with Milton . That project was carried out independently . I do n't really remember why I played these songs for him.

Anyway, at some point in my life, I thought I wanted to do a project with him . It was probably something like a live performance . yes . And I think it was 2013 , I was asked to take on the role of music director for a festival held in Gdansk, Poland . They said, " Do whatever you want." That's what I said. " I said, 'Okay, I want Herbie, Wayne, Milton, Omar Sangaré, and Pedrito Martinez.' " I asked, " How about saying it this way?" and they replied, "Okay, let's do that." And then I booked all those people for the festival.

It was truly amazing. One of the bands performing at the festival was scheduled to consist of Herbie, Leo, Wayne, Milton, Terry Lynn Carrington, and myself. So, for the six months leading up to the festival, I was racking my brains trying to arrange Milton's songs . One of them was 'Octo Bro.' But Milton got sick and couldn't come to the festival . So we couldn't play that song. We just played other songs. But what I want to say is that I never imagined we would make an album together , and I never thought I would dare ask for something like that.

However, we have worked together before . I performed with him at the Rock in Rio Festival around 2011. He sang a song called 'Terry Music Society,' and he was really nervous . Because it was a situation where everything depended on the process . I couldn't finish the lyrics, but he kept asking for them . It was the day before the performance, and I think I barely managed to finish it on the plane to LA. It was really terrible. He arrived at the studio and said, "I can't send the lyrics on the same day." He got angry, saying I said, "Good heavens.

What can I do? I haven't even finished it yet ." That's what I said. Then, in 2022, when he was on his farewell tour , his son messaged me on WhatsApp asking, "Will you come to the show with me?" I sent a text message saying... The only ones that fit the schedule were the New York and Boston performances in October, and I think it was probably October. So I went to sing a few songs as a special guest . Then, at a bar in Boston, the son suddenly said, "Dad, you have to produce my album .

I really want to do the next project with you ." That's what they said . So I said, "Okay, I get it. Are you serious? Fine, I'll do it." That's what I said. After that, things progressed really quickly . My son wanted to record his dad's voice, which had loosened up from the tour . It was a dream I had cherished in my heart my whole life. I just kept thinking that it would come true someday, but before I knew it, it was right at my doorstep .

"what?" I wanted to. " As you know, that energy was really strong. But I believe in myself, I believe in the work I’ve done, I believe in Milton’s life , I believe in his son, and I believe in the people who helped me. I believe in my prayers, I believe in my hymns, I just believe in everything. The biggest obstacle in this story was time. I couldn’t dedicate as much time to arranging and preparation as I wanted , and in some ways, I felt like I was n’t prepared to properly showcase all my abilities .

However, I really love this album, and I came to realize how much Milton believes in me—things I hadn’t fully understood before going through this process . Of course, among the things I learned while working with him, there are some things I wish I had known in April 2023. But anyway, we’ve made it this far . How did you develop while working with him, and how did he, too, strive to push beyond his limits and get better ? Of course, that’s how it has to be .

Because you have to whip yourself into shape every time you make an album ." I wanted to move forward on a new path with new sounds, words, and approaches . Of course, there are various reasons. This project was undertaken at a time when the many things I have been working on for a long time have come to fruition and reached a level where they can now be trusted and entrusted . I was able to work with peace of mind . yes. Some of that is thanks to my experience working with musicians and producing various types of albums in diverse contexts.

Another part was the way I arrange , the way I communicate what I want to do musically , and the process of creating music with people in the studio , especially the experience of working with veteran musicians . I've been working with Wayne for 10 years . This project is a really special experience. It is a bit hard to admit, but I think the process of working with Wayne took a long time in many ways to sincerely stand together for a veteran musician . I tried to figure out how I could truly fulfill my role .

While working with him, I underwent a significant change in the process of letting go of my ego and learning, and I realized, "Ah, this is exactly how I properly fulfill my role ." I did n't know what it was like to step up in front of Mr. Milton, who is both my mentor and my senior. So, during the short time I spent with him, I realized I needed to do better in that area, and there is still plenty of room for growth. Well, it might seem trivial, but I think I need to learn starting with small things, like scheduling other activities on the same day after a vocal recording with him.

For instance, I realized I shouldn't think, 'Don't do that . Don't do that. I can do something else after four hours of recording . I'm going to a concert or a performance.'" I am here to record Mr. Milton . Be with him . Focus on the present. Be with him all day long. After recording for four hours, focus on that moment . 'I am still learning . I have gained this lesson a lot while working on the album and doing various other things, and I have also learned that I need to have patience and composure when I take responsibility.

What is that? For example, like getting Milton's vocal interpretation as a producer . And learning gentleness, patience, and how to let go . Of course, I have to take responsibility for making his voice sound good on this album, but it is his voice. It is his time and his life. He is 80 years old, you know. That is his life, and it is the voice of an 80-year-old. I shouldn't try to force or manipulate this process the way I think it should. I have to trust him .

Yes. And he knows what kind of voice he wants . Once I understand what that is , I can trust that no matter what happens in this process, we can eventually make it happen . Me and he together [doing] the vocals There were a lot of those smooth moments while recording . And what I was just about to say might sound a bit cliché, but I realized that it is actually the most powerful force in the universe . If someone feels that you truly love them, amazing things can happen .

Yes. And I said, "Oh my god, I'm at work." I have to act like a professional. We must do everything we are supposed to do properly , and make sure everyone is being treated fairly . We are taking a break at the proper time, and we have to do something. I think that kind of thought comes to mind when you are caught up in the same idea . Actually, I had forgotten that everything would be much better if I prioritized these people, this man, and my intense love for this music .

It took some time , but these people know that I love them . Milton knows that I love him , the music knows that I love him, and the musicians in the studio know that I love them. But we have a kind of professional mask, you know . I realized that trying to show you that I can do it, that I am doing the right thing, that I am responsible, that I am by your side, that we will make it, and that you shouldn't worry is actually obscuring our true feelings.

The essence is precisely, ' Milton, I love you.' I really love you. I just love you. I am doing this because I love you. It’s not because I have to make a great album, but because I love you, I can do anything for you . That's what it means. And as soon as I let go of that feeling , everything became clear. "My gaze, gestures, words, presence—everything flowed naturally. It was as if his voice had actually changed. The way we made eye contact, the trust that filled the air—everything was different.

To be honest, that process took three months, but I hope you never forget that feeling . I really hope you never forget it . I am so grateful just to be able to feel those emotions and act based on them . Esperanza, we only have a few minutes left, and you have talked a lot about mentors and senior colleagues . Although you are not a senior colleague yet , having served in public office for nearly 20 years, you can certainly be called a mentor, and you are in a position to become one .

How do you feel about moving on to the next stage of your life and career ? I believe the 40s are a time when many people find their true selves . It is a time when they begin to feel comfortable with their appearance, their bodies, and their personalities . I am curious if you are feeling that way as well." " Yes, of course. Thank you for the good question . Hmm, most of the people I used to look up to as role models were older..." They were male jazz, classical, rock, and soul musicians .

They were like pillars of the music world. Of course, I always had my heroes, but people like Tyner Lawson, Vandana Shiva, Leah Fennyman, Fanny Lou Hammer, and Vivian Burnett were individuals who personally practiced a way of life that is important to the Earth and to each other . That aspect felt important to me as well, but now I realize, "Ah , that wasn't what I was pursuing ." While contemplating what I should do in this life, I decided, "I should focus on music ." Then, it suddenly occurred to me, "As a musician, how can I collaborate with or add my voice to people from other fields whom I respect but dare not aspire to?" I came to think that.

I believe that is the true meaning . Of course, I am not trying to disparage music . I simply mean that such a dedicated effort is needed to respect the unknown. I do not call myself a social activist . That is because I know how difficult that kind of work is. I am simply participating . Anyway, I am feeling a very powerful change right now , and I realized that at this very moment, I have come to pay attention to Black feminist thinkers, movement leaders, and their methods of collective response and pursuit of collective vision .

And I strongly feel that if what I am doing does not help us rely more on the land—the earth, the soul, and our relationships—it is probably a lie and a fraud . I am not yet fully sure how to prioritize the essence, reason, and direction of my work, but I feel that I do not want to invest heavily in anything else. I do not feel a sense of urgency or impatience regarding time; rather, I feel an inner vitality or drive for my field and my method of practice .

I hope that the work I do will provide us with a clear and effective power and contribution. So that we can—that is, to help us remember, find new ways , or establish interdependent relationships with the land and the spirit, rather than exploiting one another . And I realized that music is exactly what enables me to dream , imagine, and create . Music stabilizes my nervous system , helps me express what I know , conceive new ideas , and connect with others . Many mentors in the musical lineage did not clearly teach me about these different ways.

So, I hope to learn those things by following in the footsteps of mentors who have always maintained close relationships with musicians and artists and who have spoken the truth . I mean, I believe someone like Fanny Lou Hammer embodied both of those things . As a student of this lineage , I hope to understand, learn, and contribute something through my music so that we can do that, so that we can return . Here, ' return' does not mean going back to the past. It means being right here .

We are still the same We are all the same beings living on this planet . It helps us figure out and practice how to build a more consistent, truly mutually restorative relationship of dependence on the land, on each other, and on our souls . I feel like I’m repeating myself, but I want to emphasize this again because it is truly important. And that is my role right now . So I am curious , nervous, and excited about what changes will happen in the future. Thank you so much, Esperanza Spalding .

Thank you for your time and thoughtful questions . Thank you for watching the conversation with Esperanza Spalding . Her new album is 'Milton and Esperanza.' You can listen to it right now. If you would like to see more videos like this, please subscribe to this channel . We upload new conversation videos every week . Of course, we also run an audio podcast . You can find it by searching for 'Great Creators' on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more . I am Guy Raz, and this was Great Creators from Built-It Productions .

I will be back next week with another episode. See you then. 습니다.