Daredevil Michelle Khare — How to Become a YouTube Superstar

What are you putting off out of fear? What are you putting off out of fear? I'm putting off quitting my job. I'm I'm putting off quitting my job. I'm I'm putting off quitting my job. I'm putting off reaching out to all the putting off reaching out to all the putting off reaching out to all the people I need to to make this dream a people I need to to make this dream a people I need to to make this dream a reality because it means I have to say reality because it means I have to say reality because it means I have to say it out loud. I'm waiting for a false it out loud. I'm waiting for a false it out loud. I'm waiting for a false sense of security to inspire me to take sense of security to inspire me to take sense of security to inspire me to take a leap. But I'm actually being a leap. But I'm actually being a leap. But I'm actually being challenged and invited to create my own challenged and invited to create my own challenged and invited to create my own security. I've never designed my own security. I've never designed my own security. I've never designed my own rubric of success. And that's because I rubric of success. And that's because I rubric of success. And that's because I don't trust myself to define success. don't trust myself to define success. don't trust myself to define success. I'm scared to assume that I'm scared to assume that I'm scared to assume that responsibility. responsibility. responsibility. That was my fear setting. That was my fear setting. That was my fear setting. It's very personal process. It's very personal process. It's very personal process. >> Michelle, at long last, here we are. >> Michelle, at long last, here we are. >> Michelle, at long last, here we are. >> Here we are. >> Here we are. >> Here we are. >> So nice to meet you in person. >> So nice to meet you in person. >> So nice to meet you in person. >> It's so nice to meet you, too. This is >> It's so nice to meet you, too. This is >> It's so nice to meet you, too. This is so exciting and surreal for me. So, so exciting and surreal for me. So, so exciting and surreal for me. So, thank you for letting me infiltrate your thank you for letting me infiltrate your thank you for letting me infiltrate your podcast studio today. podcast studio today. podcast studio today. >> Absolutely. I am thrilled. It looks like >> Absolutely. I am thrilled. It looks like >> Absolutely. I am thrilled. It looks like about three years ago that I first put about three years ago that I first put about three years ago that I first put you and your channel in my newsletter, you and your channel in my newsletter, you and your channel in my newsletter, Five Bullet Friday. And I think it was Five Bullet Friday. And I think it was Five Bullet Friday. And I think it was probably even before that that one of probably even before that that one of probably even before that that one of our mutual friends, Adam Grant, had been our mutual friends, Adam Grant, had been our mutual friends, Adam Grant, had been telling me repeatedly, telling me repeatedly, telling me repeatedly, you have to have Michelle on the show. you have to have Michelle on the show. you have to have Michelle on the show. And the reason that I was so excited to And the reason that I was so excited to And the reason that I was so excited to put you in the newsletter, I don't even put you in the newsletter, I don't even put you in the newsletter, I don't even remember the line. I went back and I remember the line. I went back and I remember the line. I went back and I looked at what I said exactly. And one looked at what I said exactly. And one looked at what I said exactly. And one of the things I said was, "I'm so happy of the things I said was, "I'm so happy of the things I said was, "I'm so happy that someone finally cracked sort of that someone finally cracked sort of that someone finally cracked sort of this premise and did it right." But this premise and did it right." But this premise and did it right." But since people probably have no idea what since people probably have no idea what since people probably have no idea what I'm talking about, although I would have I'm talking about, although I would have I'm talking about, although I would have already said something in the intro, already said something in the intro, already said something in the intro, what's the log line so to speak for what's the log line so to speak for what's the log line so to speak for Challenge Accepted? Challenge Accepted? Challenge Accepted? >> Of Challenge Accepted. What is it? >> Of Challenge Accepted. What is it? >> Of Challenge Accepted. What is it? >> So, Challenge Accepted is a show where I >> So, Challenge Accepted is a show where I >> So, Challenge Accepted is a show where I attempt the world's toughest stunts and attempt the world's toughest stunts and attempt the world's toughest stunts and professions. And that can range from professions. And that can range from professions. And that can range from learning and attempting Harry Houdini's learning and attempting Harry Houdini's learning and attempting Harry Houdini's deadliest trick, the water torture cell, deadliest trick, the water torture cell, deadliest trick, the water torture cell, to training with the Secret Service for to training with the Secret Service for to training with the Secret Service for a week to most recently I recreated Tom a week to most recently I recreated Tom a week to most recently I recreated Tom Cruz's stunt from Mission Impossible Cruz's stunt from Mission Impossible Cruz's stunt from Mission Impossible where I was hanging off the side of a where I was hanging off the side of a where I was hanging off the side of a military aircraft as it was taking off. and you have more than 6 million and you have more than 6 million followers, more than a billion views, followers, more than a billion views, followers, more than a billion views, and I'm going to read, you know what, and I'm going to read, you know what, and I'm going to read, you know what, we'll probably just skip the intro we'll probably just skip the intro we'll probably just skip the intro because I'm basically getting into it because I'm basically getting into it because I'm basically getting into it anyway. Michelle hopes to prove that anyway. Michelle hopes to prove that anyway. Michelle hopes to prove that with enough dedication and failure, with enough dedication and failure, with enough dedication and failure, anything is possible. And that's one of anything is possible. And that's one of anything is possible. And that's one of the characteristics that I most the characteristics that I most the characteristics that I most appreciate about the show is like if you appreciate about the show is like if you appreciate about the show is like if you have a breakdown, if you're flat on your have a breakdown, if you're flat on your have a breakdown, if you're flat on your back, if you stumble and fall, it's in back, if you stumble and fall, it's in back, if you stumble and fall, it's in there, right? That's a feature and not a there, right? That's a feature and not a there, right? That's a feature and not a bug. bug. bug. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So, it's not just the highlights, it's >> So, it's not just the highlights, it's >> So, it's not just the highlights, it's also the low lightss. And since we're also the low lightss. And since we're also the low lightss. And since we're already getting into it, I'm just going already getting into it, I'm just going already getting into it, I'm just going to read this paragraph. All right. to read this paragraph. All right. to read this paragraph. All right. Michelle's work has earned multiple Michelle's work has earned multiple Michelle's work has earned multiple streaming awards, including show of the streaming awards, including show of the streaming awards, including show of the year, has been featured in the New York year, has been featured in the New York year, has been featured in the New York Times, Forbes, Vogue India, and more. In Times, Forbes, Vogue India, and more. In Times, Forbes, Vogue India, and more. In 2025, challenge accepted, made history. 2025, challenge accepted, made history. 2025, challenge accepted, made history. Congratulations. Successfully Congratulations. Successfully Congratulations. Successfully petitioning to join the prime time Emmy petitioning to join the prime time Emmy petitioning to join the prime time Emmy ballot. Michelle was named a Time 100 ballot. Michelle was named a Time 100 ballot. Michelle was named a Time 100 honore for her impact as a creator and honore for her impact as a creator and honore for her impact as a creator and storyteller. Let's rewind way back. We storyteller. Let's rewind way back. We storyteller. Let's rewind way back. We were chatting a little bit before we got were chatting a little bit before we got were chatting a little bit before we got started about Shriefport, Louisiana. started about Shriefport, Louisiana. started about Shriefport, Louisiana. >> Oh yes, >> Oh yes, >> Oh yes, >> shout out Shrieport. >> shout out Shrieport. >> shout out Shrieport. >> And I mentioned I had been there and you >> And I mentioned I had been there and you >> And I mentioned I had been there and you were like, I'm so sorry. were like, I'm so sorry. were like, I'm so sorry. >> There's not much there. >> There's not much there. >> There's not much there. >> Why was I there? Why had I been there? >> Why was I there? Why had I been there? >> Why was I there? Why had I been there? And why does that tie into your And why does that tie into your And why does that tie into your background a little bit, your history background a little bit, your history background a little bit, your history growing up? Oh, I was just say if you growing up? Oh, I was just say if you growing up? Oh, I was just say if you want to hop into it because I'll I'll want to hop into it because I'll I'll want to hop into it because I'll I'll suppose answer my own question which is suppose answer my own question which is suppose answer my own question which is the reason I was intrigued is because the reason I was intrigued is because the reason I was intrigued is because they have very compelling tax incentives they have very compelling tax incentives they have very compelling tax incentives and other incentives for filming. and other incentives for filming. and other incentives for filming. >> Right. So what was your first exposure >> Right. So what was your first exposure >> Right. So what was your first exposure to sort of the business broadly speaking to sort of the business broadly speaking to sort of the business broadly speaking in air quotes? My very first exposure to in air quotes? My very first exposure to in air quotes? My very first exposure to the business was my dad is a big big the business was my dad is a big big the business was my dad is a big big movie and television lover. He actually movie and television lover. He actually movie and television lover. He actually learned English after immigrating from learned English after immigrating from learned English after immigrating from India by watching films even on the India by watching films even on the India by watching films even on the plane from India to America. plane from India to America. plane from India to America. >> So growing up because there's not much >> So growing up because there's not much >> So growing up because there's not much to do in Shreport. Every Friday night we to do in Shreport. Every Friday night we to do in Shreport. Every Friday night we were at the movies. It didn't matter if were at the movies. It didn't matter if were at the movies. It didn't matter if it was a blockbuster or a, you know, it was a blockbuster or a, you know, it was a blockbuster or a, you know, very lowrated Rotten Tomatoes B-side very lowrated Rotten Tomatoes B-side very lowrated Rotten Tomatoes B-side movie. I saw everything. Kids movies, movie. I saw everything. Kids movies, movie. I saw everything. Kids movies, PG-13 up, like we saw it all. And then PG-13 up, like we saw it all. And then PG-13 up, like we saw it all. And then we would go to a pizza shop and talk we would go to a pizza shop and talk we would go to a pizza shop and talk about the movie afterwards. Again, about the movie afterwards. Again, about the movie afterwards. Again, there's nothing to do in street. So, there's nothing to do in street. So, there's nothing to do in street. So, this was like the pinnacle of this was like the pinnacle of this was like the pinnacle of entertainment. And so just naturally I I entertainment. And so just naturally I I entertainment. And so just naturally I I started experiencing started experiencing started experiencing a homegrown little film school, if that a homegrown little film school, if that a homegrown little film school, if that makes sense. We printed out the AFI top makes sense. We printed out the AFI top makes sense. We printed out the AFI top 100 movies and had them in our living 100 movies and had them in our living 100 movies and had them in our living room and we would check them off as we room and we would check them off as we room and we would check them off as we watched them, me and my dad. And what watched them, me and my dad. And what watched them, me and my dad. And what was special is as I got a little older, was special is as I got a little older, was special is as I got a little older, all these tax incentives started all these tax incentives started all these tax incentives started happening, bringing films to New Orleans happening, bringing films to New Orleans happening, bringing films to New Orleans and to Shreveport. and to Shreveport. and to Shreveport. We got a lot of like Twilight knockoff We got a lot of like Twilight knockoff We got a lot of like Twilight knockoff movies. I think one of the scary movies movies. I think one of the scary movies movies. I think one of the scary movies was shot in Shreport. And so our town was shot in Shreport. And so our town was shot in Shreport. And so our town sort of experienced this little economic sort of experienced this little economic sort of experienced this little economic art renaissance which was really art renaissance which was really art renaissance which was really exciting. And so all of our friends and exciting. And so all of our friends and exciting. And so all of our friends and and family members were becoming extras and family members were becoming extras and family members were becoming extras in movies and TV shows and and feeling, in movies and TV shows and and feeling, in movies and TV shows and and feeling, you know, very excited about all of you know, very excited about all of you know, very excited about all of that. And so one of my first jobs was that. And so one of my first jobs was that. And so one of my first jobs was I had an internship on a movie starring I had an internship on a movie starring I had an internship on a movie starring The Rock. It was a movie called Snitch. The Rock. It was a movie called Snitch. The Rock. It was a movie called Snitch. It came out in 2013. And I I think I was It came out in 2013. And I I think I was It came out in 2013. And I I think I was like so low on the call sheet. I was like so low on the call sheet. I was like so low on the call sheet. I was like it was after all the PAs. It was PA like it was after all the PAs. It was PA like it was after all the PAs. It was PA intern. It was the last person on the intern. It was the last person on the intern. It was the last person on the call sheet was me. And I was just call sheet was me. And I was just call sheet was me. And I was just getting coffee for people and learning. getting coffee for people and learning. getting coffee for people and learning. And it it was an incredible experience. And it it was an incredible experience. And it it was an incredible experience. And I love that because I got a window And I love that because I got a window And I love that because I got a window into the traditional scope of what it into the traditional scope of what it into the traditional scope of what it could take to tell a story at a higher could take to tell a story at a higher could take to tell a story at a higher Hollywood level. Hollywood level. Hollywood level. >> And that's what I hope to bring a lot of >> And that's what I hope to bring a lot of >> And that's what I hope to bring a lot of to what we do even on Challenge Accepted to what we do even on Challenge Accepted to what we do even on Challenge Accepted today is this midpoint of digital today is this midpoint of digital today is this midpoint of digital freedom ownership but structure and freedom ownership but structure and freedom ownership but structure and understanding and respect of the history understanding and respect of the history understanding and respect of the history of where our visual storytelling medium of where our visual storytelling medium of where our visual storytelling medium has come from. Mhm. Part of the reason I has come from. Mhm. Part of the reason I has come from. Mhm. Part of the reason I said I'm so glad somebody finally sort said I'm so glad somebody finally sort said I'm so glad somebody finally sort of cracked this is of cracked this is of cracked this is you'll know this, some people may not. you'll know this, some people may not. you'll know this, some people may not. There are basically two reasons why I'm There are basically two reasons why I'm There are basically two reasons why I'm doing this podcast or the catalyst that doing this podcast or the catalyst that doing this podcast or the catalyst that led to this podcast and they both relate led to this podcast and they both relate led to this podcast and they both relate to ownership in a sense. The first was to ownership in a sense. The first was to ownership in a sense. The first was the 4-hour chef, which was basically the 4-hour chef, which was basically the 4-hour chef, which was basically just a suicide mission of a deadline. just a suicide mission of a deadline. just a suicide mission of a deadline. Book that should have taken three years Book that should have taken three years Book that should have taken three years was done in a year and that's just was done in a year and that's just was done in a year and that's just physically effectively impossible. So physically effectively impossible. So physically effectively impossible. So ran myself into the ground with that ran myself into the ground with that ran myself into the ground with that >> because you are self- testing all of >> because you are self- testing all of >> because you are self- testing all of these techniques. these techniques. these techniques. >> I'm self test. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I >> I'm self test. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I >> I'm self test. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I was doing everything in the book full of was doing everything in the book full of was doing everything in the book full of experiments and somehow thought it would experiments and somehow thought it would experiments and somehow thought it would be a good idea to try to learn be a good idea to try to learn be a good idea to try to learn photography to do photography to do photography to do hundreds of photographs in the book hundreds of photographs in the book hundreds of photographs in the book myself, which turns out to be a craft in myself, which turns out to be a craft in myself, which turns out to be a craft in and of itself that takes a lot of time and of itself that takes a lot of time and of itself that takes a lot of time if you want to be even halfway decent. if you want to be even halfway decent. if you want to be even halfway decent. >> And what ended up happening in that case >> And what ended up happening in that case >> And what ended up happening in that case was was was distribution got hamstrung. I expected distribution got hamstrung. I expected distribution got hamstrung. I expected some of it because it was a book. It was some of it because it was a book. It was some of it because it was a book. It was the largest title that had been acquired the largest title that had been acquired the largest title that had been acquired by the then very naent Amazon by the then very naent Amazon by the then very naent Amazon publishing. And because people in some publishing. And because people in some publishing. And because people in some ways rightly fear Amazon as this ways rightly fear Amazon as this ways rightly fear Amazon as this omnipowerful, you know, omnipotent omnipowerful, you know, omnipotent omnipowerful, you know, omnipotent entity that controls all of these entity that controls all of these entity that controls all of these different aspects of in most cases different aspects of in most cases different aspects of in most cases distribution. But now Amazon Publishing distribution. But now Amazon Publishing distribution. But now Amazon Publishing was going to be competing with the big was going to be competing with the big was going to be competing with the big publishing houses for author talent. And publishing houses for author talent. And publishing houses for author talent. And this scared the hell out of everybody. this scared the hell out of everybody. this scared the hell out of everybody. So, I expected that there would be, say, So, I expected that there would be, say, So, I expected that there would be, say, boycott by Barnes & Noble. I did not boycott by Barnes & Noble. I did not boycott by Barnes & Noble. I did not anticipate it would include all the big anticipate it would include all the big anticipate it would include all the big box retailers and much more. So, the box retailers and much more. So, the box retailers and much more. So, the book basically I I don't want to say it book basically I I don't want to say it book basically I I don't want to say it died on the vine because it did as well died on the vine because it did as well died on the vine because it did as well as it could have. But at the same time, as it could have. But at the same time, as it could have. But at the same time, roughly, this is the part I haven't roughly, this is the part I haven't roughly, this is the part I haven't talked as much about. I had been filming talked as much about. I had been filming talked as much about. I had been filming and then debuted in 2013 the Tim Ferrris and then debuted in 2013 the Tim Ferrris and then debuted in 2013 the Tim Ferrris experiment. And the Tim Ferris experiment. And the Tim Ferris experiment. And the Tim Ferris experiment had me doing these experiment had me doing these experiment had me doing these experiments as you might expect on a experiments as you might expect on a experiments as you might expect on a weekly basis. And that was through a weekly basis. And that was through a weekly basis. And that was through a startup within Turner Broadcasting startup within Turner Broadcasting startup within Turner Broadcasting called Upwave. But there were all these called Upwave. But there were all these called Upwave. But there were all these problems internally at Upwave. problems internally at Upwave. problems internally at Upwave. Ultimately that that got shut down. Ultimately that that got shut down. Ultimately that that got shut down. there was a regime change and then what there was a regime change and then what there was a regime change and then what h what happens? The catalog of episodes. h what happens? The catalog of episodes. h what happens? The catalog of episodes. If it succeeds, the new leadership is If it succeeds, the new leadership is If it succeeds, the new leadership is not going to get any credit and if it not going to get any credit and if it not going to get any credit and if it goes poorly, they're going to get all goes poorly, they're going to get all goes poorly, they're going to get all the blame. So, it just got locked up. the blame. So, it just got locked up. the blame. So, it just got locked up. And it took me like 2 years or 3 years And it took me like 2 years or 3 years And it took me like 2 years or 3 years to get back the rights and then quote to get back the rights and then quote to get back the rights and then quote unquote self-publish on Apple. And it it unquote self-publish on Apple. And it it unquote self-publish on Apple. And it it did very well at the time. But what you did very well at the time. But what you did very well at the time. But what you just said is so important. And I want to just said is so important. And I want to just said is so important. And I want to underscore it for people because I've underscore it for people because I've underscore it for people because I've heard you discuss. I want to give a heard you discuss. I want to give a heard you discuss. I want to give a shout out to Colin Samir, two of the shout out to Colin Samir, two of the shout out to Colin Samir, two of the best interviewers out there in my best interviewers out there in my best interviewers out there in my opinion, especially when it comes to opinion, especially when it comes to opinion, especially when it comes to creator economy and the nuts and bolts creator economy and the nuts and bolts creator economy and the nuts and bolts of making things in this modern era. I of making things in this modern era. I of making things in this modern era. I really want to give them due credit. really want to give them due credit. really want to give them due credit. When you've had conversations, and I'm When you've had conversations, and I'm When you've had conversations, and I'm going to talk for a second, I apologize, going to talk for a second, I apologize, going to talk for a second, I apologize, but when you've had conversations with but when you've had conversations with but when you've had conversations with some of these larger, let's call it some of these larger, let's call it some of these larger, let's call it traditional outlets or platforms, right? traditional outlets or platforms, right? traditional outlets or platforms, right? and you start to talk about your and you start to talk about your and you start to talk about your production schedule, they're like, production schedule, they're like, production schedule, they're like, "Well, wait a second. It takes you 6 "Well, wait a second. It takes you 6 "Well, wait a second. It takes you 6 months or a year or fill in the blank in months or a year or fill in the blank in months or a year or fill in the blank in their mind excessively long period of their mind excessively long period of their mind excessively long period of time. Could we compress it into a week?" time. Could we compress it into a week?" time. Could we compress it into a week?" >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And you have figured out very artfully >> And you have figured out very artfully >> And you have figured out very artfully how to have largely complete editorial how to have largely complete editorial how to have largely complete editorial control. There are some constraints, control. There are some constraints, control. There are some constraints, right, depending on how you want to go right, depending on how you want to go right, depending on how you want to go about it with partners and sponsors and about it with partners and sponsors and about it with partners and sponsors and things like that, but largely you things like that, but largely you things like that, but largely you control your schedule, your direction. control your schedule, your direction. control your schedule, your direction. actually you do completely right you're actually you do completely right you're actually you do completely right you're choosing positive constraints depending choosing positive constraints depending choosing positive constraints depending on your objectives on your objectives on your objectives but what ended up happening with Tim but what ended up happening with Tim but what ended up happening with Tim Ferris experiments like okay we have a Ferris experiments like okay we have a Ferris experiments like okay we have a week for each one week for each one week for each one >> and so I would be in compression pants >> and so I would be in compression pants >> and so I would be in compression pants and like putting on DMSO and all this and like putting on DMSO and all this and like putting on DMSO and all this crap because I had a ton of injuries crap because I had a ton of injuries crap because I had a ton of injuries from one episode but we were already from one episode but we were already from one episode but we were already going into post and then we'd have a day going into post and then we'd have a day going into post and then we'd have a day of travel and then I'm starting the next of travel and then I'm starting the next of travel and then I'm starting the next episode and it was impossible right it episode and it was impossible right it episode and it was impossible right it was just physically I'm still contending was just physically I'm still contending was just physically I'm still contending with injuries from that. We might talk with injuries from that. We might talk with injuries from that. We might talk about that with respect to some of the about that with respect to some of the about that with respect to some of the stuff that you're doing. I want to hear stuff that you're doing. I want to hear stuff that you're doing. I want to hear about it. But there were two issues, about it. But there were two issues, about it. But there were two issues, right? There was the kind of production right? There was the kind of production right? There was the kind of production side control side control side control >> problem and then ultimately didn't >> problem and then ultimately didn't >> problem and then ultimately didn't control distribution. And control distribution. And control distribution. And for for for those reasons, those two straws that those reasons, those two straws that those reasons, those two straws that broke the camel's back, I was like, broke the camel's back, I was like, broke the camel's back, I was like, "Fuck this." And I'd used podcasts to "Fuck this." And I'd used podcasts to "Fuck this." And I'd used podcasts to launch the 4-hour chef. And I thought to launch the 4-hour chef. And I thought to launch the 4-hour chef. And I thought to myself, you know what? I like RSS feeds. myself, you know what? I like RSS feeds. myself, you know what? I like RSS feeds. I like this idea of being able to do I like this idea of being able to do I like this idea of being able to do whatever I want, be myself. If I want to whatever I want, be myself. If I want to whatever I want, be myself. If I want to curse, I can curse. Not that that's curse, I can curse. Not that that's curse, I can curse. Not that that's ultimately, I suppose, can be an art ultimately, I suppose, can be an art ultimately, I suppose, can be an art form in and of itself, depending on form in and of itself, depending on form in and of itself, depending on where you grow up. And that's how we where you grow up. And that's how we where you grow up. And that's how we ended up here today, right? So, ended up here today, right? So, ended up here today, right? So, >> just so I understand, you were human >> just so I understand, you were human >> just so I understand, you were human guinea pigging, 4-hour chef. Yeah. guinea pigging, 4-hour chef. Yeah. guinea pigging, 4-hour chef. Yeah. >> And shooting Tim Ferris experiment at >> And shooting Tim Ferris experiment at >> And shooting Tim Ferris experiment at the same time. the same time. the same time. >> They were basically backtoback and there >> They were basically backtoback and there >> They were basically backtoback and there was probably some overlap. So, I was was probably some overlap. So, I was was probably some overlap. So, I was doing pre-production while I was doing pre-production while I was doing pre-production while I was finishing the 4-hour chef cuz I'm a finishing the 4-hour chef cuz I'm a finishing the 4-hour chef cuz I'm a glutton for punishment. For people who glutton for punishment. For people who glutton for punishment. For people who haven't seen that, it's my first haven't seen that, it's my first haven't seen that, it's my first fourcolor book. It's something like 600, fourcolor book. It's something like 600, fourcolor book. It's something like 600, 700 pages, cut down from like a thousand 700 pages, cut down from like a thousand 700 pages, cut down from like a thousand probably. And probably. And probably. And the biggest the biggest the biggest difference, I'd say the absolute biggest difference, I'd say the absolute biggest difference, I'd say the absolute biggest difference between the 4-hour chef and difference between the 4-hour chef and difference between the 4-hour chef and the books that came before it, the the books that came before it, the the books that came before it, the 4-hour work week and the 4-hour body, is 4-hour work week and the 4-hour body, is 4-hour work week and the 4-hour body, is that in the case of the 4-hour body, I that in the case of the 4-hour body, I that in the case of the 4-hour body, I did all of the experiments, then did all of the experiments, then did all of the experiments, then digested it all, combed through digested it all, combed through digested it all, combed through everything, and compiled the book. In everything, and compiled the book. In everything, and compiled the book. In the case of the 4-hour chef, I was still the case of the 4-hour chef, I was still the case of the 4-hour chef, I was still because of the deadline doing a lot of because of the deadline doing a lot of because of the deadline doing a lot of the experiments as I was already the experiments as I was already the experiments as I was already beginning to write the earlier sections beginning to write the earlier sections beginning to write the earlier sections of the book, which is a very risky of the book, which is a very risky of the book, which is a very risky gambit. gambit. gambit. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> And then on top of that, because I did >> And then on top of that, because I did >> And then on top of that, because I did not know, and I thought this was not know, and I thought this was not know, and I thought this was actually a good idea, although there actually a good idea, although there actually a good idea, although there were a lot of pitfalls, because the were a lot of pitfalls, because the were a lot of pitfalls, because the 4-hour chef was a huge gamble, 4-hour chef was a huge gamble, 4-hour chef was a huge gamble, particularly from a distribution particularly from a distribution particularly from a distribution perspective. I expected I was going to perspective. I expected I was going to perspective. I expected I was going to get kneecapped in certain ways and I was get kneecapped in certain ways and I was get kneecapped in certain ways and I was like, well, if this doesn't work out the like, well, if this doesn't work out the like, well, if this doesn't work out the way I wanted to, I still have the way I wanted to, I still have the way I wanted to, I still have the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of most benefit of the doubt in the eyes of most benefit of the doubt in the eyes of most people and I can use the success of the people and I can use the success of the people and I can use the success of the prior book and the blog at that time, prior book and the blog at that time, prior book and the blog at that time, remember blogs, people to parlay that remember blogs, people to parlay that remember blogs, people to parlay that into the television. So, I was like, into the television. So, I was like, into the television. So, I was like, "Let me get the deal before The 4Hour "Let me get the deal before The 4Hour "Let me get the deal before The 4Hour Chef fully comes out so that I have the Chef fully comes out so that I have the Chef fully comes out so that I have the leverage that might become a question leverage that might become a question leverage that might become a question mark once it's published." mark once it's published." mark once it's published." >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, I for those of you >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, I for those of you >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, I for those of you I feel like there are so few people in I feel like there are so few people in I feel like there are so few people in the world who can truly empathize with the world who can truly empathize with the world who can truly empathize with what you put yourself through. I'm what you put yourself through. I'm what you put yourself through. I'm thinking of Morgan Spurlock. thinking of Morgan Spurlock. thinking of Morgan Spurlock. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The true pioneer of whatever it is we're >> The true pioneer of whatever it is we're >> The true pioneer of whatever it is we're doing. And rest in peace, my gosh. David doing. And rest in peace, my gosh. David doing. And rest in peace, my gosh. David Blaine Blaine Blaine >> is another that comes to mind. >> is another that comes to mind. >> is another that comes to mind. >> And I think what people don't realize >> And I think what people don't realize >> And I think what people don't realize when they watch your content or even when they watch your content or even when they watch your content or even mine is that it's not filmed in a mine is that it's not filmed in a mine is that it's not filmed in a vacuum. Life is happening. As you vacuum. Life is happening. As you vacuum. Life is happening. As you mentioned, you're not just going to mentioned, you're not just going to mentioned, you're not just going to Japan to learn Yabusame for 5 days. Japan to learn Yabusame for 5 days. Japan to learn Yabusame for 5 days. You're struggling with a jet lag. And You're struggling with a jet lag. And You're struggling with a jet lag. And then you're also probably answering then you're also probably answering then you're also probably answering questions and emails about what next questions and emails about what next questions and emails about what next week's episode is going to entail. And week's episode is going to entail. And week's episode is going to entail. And that is a level of professional athlete that is a level of professional athlete that is a level of professional athlete that is so unappreciated. So I much that is so unappreciated. So I much that is so unappreciated. So I much empathize with that. empathize with that. empathize with that. >> I Yeah, I really appreciate that. And >> I Yeah, I really appreciate that. And >> I Yeah, I really appreciate that. And >> but we were talking about decisions. >> but we were talking about decisions. >> but we were talking about decisions. >> Decisions. Yeah. So decisions and then >> Decisions. Yeah. So decisions and then >> Decisions. Yeah. So decisions and then we're going to go back chronologically. we're going to go back chronologically. we're going to go back chronologically. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Thank you for saying all that. And I was >> Thank you for saying all that. And I was >> Thank you for saying all that. And I was also building initially the the the also building initially the the the also building initially the the the writing side of things based on in some writing side of things based on in some writing side of things based on in some ways models from let's call it ways models from let's call it ways models from let's call it experiential journalism who came before experiential journalism who came before experiential journalism who came before me. me. me. >> And there were quite a few. Usually it >> And there were quite a few. Usually it >> And there were quite a few. Usually it was done with some type of satirical or was done with some type of satirical or was done with some type of satirical or humor twist right like AJ Jacobs would humor twist right like AJ Jacobs would humor twist right like AJ Jacobs would be a great example for people who don't be a great example for people who don't be a great example for people who don't know. The year of living biblically I know. The year of living biblically I know. The year of living biblically I think is an amazing amazing book. think is an amazing amazing book. think is an amazing amazing book. >> I met him a couple months ago and I said >> I met him a couple months ago and I said >> I met him a couple months ago and I said you need to do that again and make it a you need to do that again and make it a you need to do that again and make it a YouTube video. It would bang. He is such YouTube video. It would bang. He is such YouTube video. It would bang. He is such a sweet guy. Morgan Spurlock for people a sweet guy. Morgan Spurlock for people a sweet guy. Morgan Spurlock for people who might not have recognized the name who might not have recognized the name who might not have recognized the name immediately superersized me. immediately superersized me. immediately superersized me. >> Really a sort of a genre breaking >> Really a sort of a genre breaking >> Really a sort of a genre breaking category redefining experiment and many category redefining experiment and many category redefining experiment and many more who came earlier from a writing more who came earlier from a writing more who came earlier from a writing perspective but questions. So what I perspective but questions. So what I perspective but questions. So what I would love to know and this is going to would love to know and this is going to would love to know and this is going to get in the weeds a bit guys but we're get in the weeds a bit guys but we're get in the weeds a bit guys but we're going to zoom out and get the Genesis going to zoom out and get the Genesis going to zoom out and get the Genesis story as well. But part of what I'm so story as well. But part of what I'm so story as well. But part of what I'm so curious about is you have in some ways curious about is you have in some ways curious about is you have in some ways the dizziness of freedom, right? You the dizziness of freedom, right? You the dizziness of freedom, right? You have a paradox of choice challenge where have a paradox of choice challenge where have a paradox of choice challenge where having complete lack of constraints having complete lack of constraints having complete lack of constraints can be almost as bad if you don't have a can be almost as bad if you don't have a can be almost as bad if you don't have a framework for figuring it out as having framework for figuring it out as having framework for figuring it out as having too many constraints. So when you have too many constraints. So when you have too many constraints. So when you have things running concurrently, right, you things running concurrently, right, you things running concurrently, right, you might, as I understand it, be working on might, as I understand it, be working on might, as I understand it, be working on like two or three challenges at the same like two or three challenges at the same like two or three challenges at the same time, right? You're doing time, right? You're doing time, right? You're doing post-production for one, maybe you're post-production for one, maybe you're post-production for one, maybe you're doing planning for another, and you're doing planning for another, and you're doing planning for another, and you're in the middle of a third. in the middle of a third. in the middle of a third. >> First of all, how far in advance do you >> First of all, how far in advance do you >> First of all, how far in advance do you plan your editorial calendar? plan your editorial calendar? plan your editorial calendar? >> The editorial calendar for Challenge >> The editorial calendar for Challenge >> The editorial calendar for Challenge Accepted can be anywhere from 12 to 15 Accepted can be anywhere from 12 to 15 Accepted can be anywhere from 12 to 15 months out from idea to upload. Yeah. months out from idea to upload. Yeah. months out from idea to upload. Yeah. >> And an example of concurrent things >> And an example of concurrent things >> And an example of concurrent things happening would be happening would be happening would be >> there was one day where I had to do >> there was one day where I had to do >> there was one day where I had to do astronaut training for our NASA episode. astronaut training for our NASA episode. astronaut training for our NASA episode. So naturally, I began my day by going up So naturally, I began my day by going up So naturally, I began my day by going up in a fighter jet in the middle of in a fighter jet in the middle of in a fighter jet in the middle of nowhere in California, flying around, nowhere in California, flying around, nowhere in California, flying around, having no idea what I was getting myself having no idea what I was getting myself having no idea what I was getting myself into. into. into. >> Hope you took your Zopran. Yeah, >> Hope you took your Zopran. Yeah, >> Hope you took your Zopran. Yeah, >> I threw up. >> I threw up. >> I threw up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> While there closed, >> While there closed, >> While there closed, >> I exited the plane. We finished filming >> I exited the plane. We finished filming >> I exited the plane. We finished filming that. I got in my car, drove 3 hours that. I got in my car, drove 3 hours that. I got in my car, drove 3 hours back to Los Angeles, and had a ballet back to Los Angeles, and had a ballet back to Los Angeles, and had a ballet lesson. lesson. lesson. I think that like is just a a good I think that like is just a a good I think that like is just a a good window into what one day of of life is window into what one day of of life is window into what one day of of life is like and often training for multiple like and often training for multiple like and often training for multiple things at once. But when you have a things at once. But when you have a things at once. But when you have a situation and and a privilege honestly situation and and a privilege honestly situation and and a privilege honestly of the gift of choice and getting to of the gift of choice and getting to of the gift of choice and getting to choose how you use your time, I like to choose how you use your time, I like to choose how you use your time, I like to maximize my output for each year as far maximize my output for each year as far maximize my output for each year as far as it really comes down to as it really comes down to as it really comes down to something that I learned early, which is something that I learned early, which is something that I learned early, which is the more the more the more milestone memories you experience, the milestone memories you experience, the milestone memories you experience, the longer life feels. for sure. longer life feels. for sure. longer life feels. for sure. >> And I've realized that that goes hand in >> And I've realized that that goes hand in >> And I've realized that that goes hand in hand with my business. The more hand with my business. The more hand with my business. The more milestone memories I create and can milestone memories I create and can milestone memories I create and can capture and turn into stories, it capture and turn into stories, it capture and turn into stories, it actually is a better episode, it it actually is a better episode, it it actually is a better episode, it it leads to more revenue, more leads to more revenue, more leads to more revenue, more opportunities. And so I've sort of opportunities. And so I've sort of opportunities. And so I've sort of merged those together. But it comes from merged those together. But it comes from merged those together. But it comes from I am an athlete. I am a person who I am an athlete. I am a person who I am an athlete. I am a person who operates in an environment where if you operates in an environment where if you operates in an environment where if you give me a coach, you give me a training give me a coach, you give me a training give me a coach, you give me a training plan, I'll follow it. I'll do exactly plan, I'll follow it. I'll do exactly plan, I'll follow it. I'll do exactly what you tell me to and I really thrive what you tell me to and I really thrive what you tell me to and I really thrive in that environment. And being a in that environment. And being a in that environment. And being a business owner is such an oppositional business owner is such an oppositional business owner is such an oppositional to that because now you are both the to that because now you are both the to that because now you are both the coach and the athlete at the same time. coach and the athlete at the same time. coach and the athlete at the same time. And so what I have had to do is, and I'm And so what I have had to do is, and I'm And so what I have had to do is, and I'm stealing this term from one of my other stealing this term from one of my other stealing this term from one of my other friends, is put a Formula 1 team around friends, is put a Formula 1 team around friends, is put a Formula 1 team around myself. myself. myself. >> A Formula 1 team, you know, we love Max >> A Formula 1 team, you know, we love Max >> A Formula 1 team, you know, we love Max Vers Stappen. He's an incredible driver Vers Stappen. He's an incredible driver Vers Stappen. He's an incredible driver and he's not able to do what he does and he's not able to do what he does and he's not able to do what he does without the support of all of the without the support of all of the without the support of all of the mechanics and engineers. So what I have mechanics and engineers. So what I have mechanics and engineers. So what I have done at every step in my life is try to done at every step in my life is try to done at every step in my life is try to find who are the best people to put find who are the best people to put find who are the best people to put around myself to continually challenge around myself to continually challenge around myself to continually challenge me whether it's business, me whether it's business, me whether it's business, personal relationships, content, story personal relationships, content, story personal relationships, content, story and assembling that team is really and assembling that team is really and assembling that team is really important to me. Those are the people important to me. Those are the people important to me. Those are the people who help me decide how do I spend each who help me decide how do I spend each who help me decide how do I spend each minute of a calendar day. minute of a calendar day. minute of a calendar day. >> We're going to double click on a few >> We're going to double click on a few >> We're going to double click on a few things here and we're going to go all things here and we're going to go all things here and we're going to go all over the place, folks. So, over the place, folks. So, over the place, folks. So, >> buckle up. >> buckle up. >> buckle up. >> Buckle up. Right. >> Buckle up. Right. >> Buckle up. Right. It's not quite going to be the vomit It's not quite going to be the vomit It's not quite going to be the vomit comet for astronaut training. Hopefully, comet for astronaut training. Hopefully, comet for astronaut training. Hopefully, it'll be a little It'll be more like a it'll be a little It'll be more like a it'll be a little It'll be more like a tour through the countryside with lots tour through the countryside with lots tour through the countryside with lots of interesting sites and vistas, but a of interesting sites and vistas, but a of interesting sites and vistas, but a few things come to mind that I want to few things come to mind that I want to few things come to mind that I want to mention and then ask about. The first is mention and then ask about. The first is mention and then ask about. The first is that that that and Colin and Samir made this point like and Colin and Samir made this point like and Colin and Samir made this point like you sort of exemplify you sort of exemplify you sort of exemplify something that I hope continues to gain something that I hope continues to gain something that I hope continues to gain traction which is a focus on traction which is a focus on traction which is a focus on quality over quantity quality over quantity quality over quantity >> right because there was a point where >> right because there was a point where >> right because there was a point where it's like hey you have to post 50 times it's like hey you have to post 50 times it's like hey you have to post 50 times a day you have to do this you have to do a day you have to do this you have to do a day you have to do this you have to do that you have to like vlog 20 minutes that you have to like vlog 20 minutes that you have to like vlog 20 minutes every 12 hours no matter what you do every 12 hours no matter what you do every 12 hours no matter what you do >> and you're you're borrowing a lot of the >> and you're you're borrowing a lot of the >> and you're you're borrowing a lot of the best storytelling techniques and best storytelling techniques and best storytelling techniques and production quality of quote unquote production quality of quote unquote production quality of quote unquote traditional, right? traditional, right? traditional, right? >> But also applying it to this sort of >> But also applying it to this sort of >> But also applying it to this sort of digital native environment, digital native environment, digital native environment, >> which has a lot of its own upsides and >> which has a lot of its own upsides and >> which has a lot of its own upsides and also also also potentially long-term damaging potentially long-term damaging potentially long-term damaging temptations, which you have to be aware temptations, which you have to be aware temptations, which you have to be aware of, and I think you very much are. when of, and I think you very much are. when of, and I think you very much are. when you're publishing fewer videos however you're publishing fewer videos however you're publishing fewer videos however right in a sense you not in all senses right in a sense you not in all senses right in a sense you not in all senses but in some senses you're kind of like but in some senses you're kind of like but in some senses you're kind of like fighting the drive of the algorithm and fighting the drive of the algorithm and fighting the drive of the algorithm and there are economic incentives there are economic incentives there are economic incentives that drive the frequency with which a that drive the frequency with which a that drive the frequency with which a lot of people publish right lot of people publish right lot of people publish right >> so when you're doing less and again had >> so when you're doing less and again had >> so when you're doing less and again had tip to Colin Samir it's like you are I tip to Colin Samir it's like you are I tip to Colin Samir it's like you are I want you to modify this because it's want you to modify this because it's want you to modify this because it's been a minute since you spoke with them been a minute since you spoke with them been a minute since you spoke with them but you can keep the lights on, right, but you can keep the lights on, right, but you can keep the lights on, right, to some extent with like AdSense and the to some extent with like AdSense and the to some extent with like AdSense and the sort of ad revenue from that. Then sort of ad revenue from that. Then sort of ad revenue from that. Then you've got brand partners, right? And you've got brand partners, right? And you've got brand partners, right? And that's part of the reason why it seems that's part of the reason why it seems that's part of the reason why it seems like it's helpful to have an editorial like it's helpful to have an editorial like it's helpful to have an editorial calendar out for a period of time, calendar out for a period of time, calendar out for a period of time, right? Because you can right? Because you can right? Because you can >> have some type of I don't want to call >> have some type of I don't want to call >> have some type of I don't want to call it sales process, but you have sort of it sales process, but you have sort of it sales process, but you have sort of forwardlooking thematic opportunities forwardlooking thematic opportunities forwardlooking thematic opportunities >> to look for those types of deals. >> to look for those types of deals. >> to look for those types of deals. And then you've got your app, right, And then you've got your app, right, And then you've got your app, right, among other things. among other things. among other things. >> And I' I'd like to hear you talk about >> And I' I'd like to hear you talk about >> And I' I'd like to hear you talk about that. But when you're going to break a that. But when you're going to break a that. But when you're going to break a mold and you're trying to do something mold and you're trying to do something mold and you're trying to do something that people say can't be done, right? that people say can't be done, right? that people say can't be done, right? Like traditional TV on the internet, Like traditional TV on the internet, Like traditional TV on the internet, right? Or whatever it might be, you may right? Or whatever it might be, you may right? Or whatever it might be, you may have to find a new approach to financing have to find a new approach to financing have to find a new approach to financing what you want to do, right? And so I'd what you want to do, right? And so I'd what you want to do, right? And so I'd love to hear you speak for just a moment love to hear you speak for just a moment love to hear you speak for just a moment about kind of what you have had to build about kind of what you have had to build about kind of what you have had to build and how you've had to think differently and how you've had to think differently and how you've had to think differently in order to do what you want to do. And in order to do what you want to do. And in order to do what you want to do. And then I do want to return to and you can then I do want to return to and you can then I do want to return to and you can mention this in your answer if you want, mention this in your answer if you want, mention this in your answer if you want, but when you have certain episodes that but when you have certain episodes that but when you have certain episodes that take a day to film, right? Some that take a day to film, right? Some that take a day to film, right? Some that take a week, some that take six months, take a week, some that take six months, take a week, some that take six months, some that take a year to set up, how the some that take a year to set up, how the some that take a year to set up, how the hell do you create like a Gant chart or hell do you create like a Gant chart or hell do you create like a Gant chart or whatever to actually do that? And my whatever to actually do that? And my whatever to actually do that? And my understanding is like production is one understanding is like production is one understanding is like production is one of your superpowers, right? So of your superpowers, right? So of your superpowers, right? So >> that is a very gigantic half-page >> that is a very gigantic half-page >> that is a very gigantic half-page question. But question. But question. But >> okay. >> okay. >> okay. >> Yeah. If you could speak to basically >> Yeah. If you could speak to basically >> Yeah. If you could speak to basically how you make it work, how you make it work, how you make it work, >> how we make it work, >> how we make it work, >> how we make it work, >> right? Because a lot of creators I think >> right? Because a lot of creators I think >> right? Because a lot of creators I think are succumbing to the culture of are succumbing to the culture of are succumbing to the culture of cortisol drive. cortisol drive. cortisol drive. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Where they feel like they have to keep >> Where they feel like they have to keep >> Where they feel like they have to keep up, keep up, keep up often in terms of up, keep up, keep up often in terms of up, keep up, keep up often in terms of just frequency, right? And I think just frequency, right? And I think just frequency, right? And I think that's a really dangerous game to play that's a really dangerous game to play that's a really dangerous game to play for a lot of reasons. Somebody else is for a lot of reasons. Somebody else is for a lot of reasons. Somebody else is always going to be able to sacrifice or always going to be able to sacrifice or always going to be able to sacrifice or be willing to sacrifice their entire be willing to sacrifice their entire be willing to sacrifice their entire lives to publish more frequently. So if lives to publish more frequently. So if lives to publish more frequently. So if that can't be your sole metric, right? that can't be your sole metric, right? that can't be your sole metric, right? So how do you do what you do? And how do So how do you do what you do? And how do So how do you do what you do? And how do you have to think differently, operate you have to think differently, operate you have to think differently, operate differently? differently? differently? >> How do we operate differently? Our >> How do we operate differently? Our >> How do we operate differently? Our business is super antithetical to what business is super antithetical to what business is super antithetical to what most creators are doing. And I started most creators are doing. And I started most creators are doing. And I started in that place that you're referring to, in that place that you're referring to, in that place that you're referring to, uploading multiple long form videos a uploading multiple long form videos a uploading multiple long form videos a week. I mean I was uploading before Tik week. I mean I was uploading before Tik week. I mean I was uploading before Tik Tok existed. So it was all long form. Tok existed. So it was all long form. Tok existed. So it was all long form. Then of course short form came along. Then of course short form came along. Then of course short form came along. But what happened at the beginning of my But what happened at the beginning of my But what happened at the beginning of my career was I was trying to grow my career was I was trying to grow my career was I was trying to grow my channel to create financial and personal channel to create financial and personal channel to create financial and personal stability. I stability. I stability. I had taken a big risk by leaving my job. had taken a big risk by leaving my job. had taken a big risk by leaving my job. And as a part of that, the first entry And as a part of that, the first entry And as a part of that, the first entry point was stability in some sense. So I point was stability in some sense. So I point was stability in some sense. So I was making videos about anything I was making videos about anything I was making videos about anything I thought would perform well and still thought would perform well and still thought would perform well and still with my own lens, of course, with my own lens, of course, with my own lens, of course, >> but I would have this strategy of I'm >> but I would have this strategy of I'm >> but I would have this strategy of I'm going to do three videos a month for the going to do three videos a month for the going to do three videos a month for the studio, if you will, which is a term studio, if you will, which is a term studio, if you will, which is a term from traditional TV and film, where a from traditional TV and film, where a from traditional TV and film, where a big director will do a big blockbuster big director will do a big blockbuster big director will do a big blockbuster movie and then the studio will allow movie and then the studio will allow movie and then the studio will allow them to do their passion project. So, I them to do their passion project. So, I them to do their passion project. So, I would do that for myself or once a month would do that for myself or once a month would do that for myself or once a month I would do a passion project. And at the I would do a passion project. And at the I would do a passion project. And at the beginning of my channel, it was I would beginning of my channel, it was I would beginning of my channel, it was I would DM stunt performers like Tom Holland's DM stunt performers like Tom Holland's DM stunt performers like Tom Holland's stunt double and ask them, would you stunt double and ask them, would you stunt double and ask them, would you train with me for a week and and can we train with me for a week and and can we train with me for a week and and can we make a video together? And it was cool make a video together? And it was cool make a video together? And it was cool because we were targeting communities because we were targeting communities because we were targeting communities that were undervalued and unseen often. that were undervalued and unseen often. that were undervalued and unseen often. I mean, many stunt performers aren't I mean, many stunt performers aren't I mean, many stunt performers aren't allowed to share their work. And so allowed to share their work. And so allowed to share their work. And so giving them an opportunity to highlight giving them an opportunity to highlight giving them an opportunity to highlight their work was helpful to them and their work was helpful to them and their work was helpful to them and exciting for them and exciting for me exciting for them and exciting for me exciting for them and exciting for me selfishly because I want to learn how to selfishly because I want to learn how to selfishly because I want to learn how to do all these incredible stunts and make do all these incredible stunts and make do all these incredible stunts and make an amazing story about it. And I saw a an amazing story about it. And I saw a an amazing story about it. And I saw a market opportunity because when you see market opportunity because when you see market opportunity because when you see BTS stuff from movies, it's it's very BTS stuff from movies, it's it's very BTS stuff from movies, it's it's very >> behind the scenes. >> behind the scenes. >> behind the scenes. >> Yeah, behind the scenes. My apologies. >> Yeah, behind the scenes. My apologies. >> Yeah, behind the scenes. My apologies. When you see behind the scenes content When you see behind the scenes content When you see behind the scenes content from big Marvel movies, it's very from big Marvel movies, it's very from big Marvel movies, it's very manicured and very short. And I really manicured and very short. And I really manicured and very short. And I really wanted to give space and breathability wanted to give space and breathability wanted to give space and breathability to this experimental process. And what to this experimental process. And what to this experimental process. And what ended up happening is those passion ended up happening is those passion ended up happening is those passion projects started outperforming projects started outperforming projects started outperforming the things I expected to just perform the things I expected to just perform the things I expected to just perform well. And it got to this point where I well. And it got to this point where I well. And it got to this point where I was limited resource-wise, just like my was limited resource-wise, just like my was limited resource-wise, just like my own time even, of of being able to do own time even, of of being able to do own time even, of of being able to do more of that passion thing. And I just more of that passion thing. And I just more of that passion thing. And I just decided, we decided as a team, we're decided, we decided as a team, we're decided, we decided as a team, we're only going to focus on challenge only going to focus on challenge only going to focus on challenge accepted. Let's just try that for accepted. Let's just try that for accepted. Let's just try that for >> was it when did it get named Challenge >> was it when did it get named Challenge >> was it when did it get named Challenge Accepted? Accepted? Accepted? >> It got named Challenge Accepted after >> It got named Challenge Accepted after >> It got named Challenge Accepted after Challenge Accepted existed. So when you Challenge Accepted existed. So when you Challenge Accepted existed. So when you go back and look at season one of go back and look at season one of go back and look at season one of Challenge Accepted, which is a while ago Challenge Accepted, which is a while ago Challenge Accepted, which is a while ago now, I think we went back and named it now, I think we went back and named it now, I think we went back and named it that because we're like, "Oh yeah, this that because we're like, "Oh yeah, this that because we're like, "Oh yeah, this was the beginning of this show." Which was the beginning of this show." Which was the beginning of this show." Which is so funny. But we were we were doing is so funny. But we were we were doing is so funny. But we were we were doing many things on the channel and we many things on the channel and we many things on the channel and we decided to strip away everything and decided to strip away everything and decided to strip away everything and only go in on that and that is where a only go in on that and that is where a only go in on that and that is where a true inflection point came on the true inflection point came on the true inflection point came on the channel. I would honestly say Tim, you channel. I would honestly say Tim, you channel. I would honestly say Tim, you were asking earlier about key decisions. were asking earlier about key decisions. were asking earlier about key decisions. I think a lot of the inflection points I think a lot of the inflection points I think a lot of the inflection points of my life have happened when my back of my life have happened when my back of my life have happened when my back has been against the wall. has been against the wall. has been against the wall. >> Not in a a place of I get to make a >> Not in a a place of I get to make a >> Not in a a place of I get to make a decision, but more like I have to make a decision, but more like I have to make a decision, but more like I have to make a decision because everything's going to decision because everything's going to decision because everything's going to break if I don't. And this was a risky break if I don't. And this was a risky break if I don't. And this was a risky decision to make to go all in on a show decision to make to go all in on a show decision to make to go all in on a show where I am physically committing myself where I am physically committing myself where I am physically committing myself for up to months at a time. At this for up to months at a time. At this for up to months at a time. At this point in 2026, 2025, we release 8 to 10 point in 2026, 2025, we release 8 to 10 point in 2026, 2025, we release 8 to 10 episodes per year. episodes per year. episodes per year. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That's my upload cadence. And so every >> That's my upload cadence. And so every >> That's my upload cadence. And so every opportunity is a is a big bet. But what opportunity is a is a big bet. But what opportunity is a is a big bet. But what I have found is that when I did that, I have found is that when I did that, I have found is that when I did that, something even more special happened. It something even more special happened. It something even more special happened. It created something unique. And I have created something unique. And I have created something unique. And I have found that defining something unique can found that defining something unique can found that defining something unique can be even more valuable than consistency be even more valuable than consistency be even more valuable than consistency or mass viewership. We're very blessed or mass viewership. We're very blessed or mass viewership. We're very blessed that challenge accepted does get a lot that challenge accepted does get a lot that challenge accepted does get a lot of views and we feel strong about the of views and we feel strong about the of views and we feel strong about the bets that we make on these episodes. But bets that we make on these episodes. But bets that we make on these episodes. But I have found that creating something I have found that creating something I have found that creating something special attracts even more people to special attracts even more people to special attracts even more people to want to support it. And so now what we want to support it. And so now what we want to support it. And so now what we ironically have on the channel is a ironically have on the channel is a ironically have on the channel is a scarcity mindset for advertisers that if scarcity mindset for advertisers that if scarcity mindset for advertisers that if you want to be in an episode of you want to be in an episode of you want to be in an episode of Challenge Accepted, there are 10. The Challenge Accepted, there are 10. The Challenge Accepted, there are 10. The train's going. Are you getting on or are train's going. Are you getting on or are train's going. Are you getting on or are you getting off? Because we only have so you getting off? Because we only have so you getting off? Because we only have so much inventory to sell. We're able to much inventory to sell. We're able to much inventory to sell. We're able to sell it at a premium. And it makes what sell it at a premium. And it makes what sell it at a premium. And it makes what we're doing so one of we're doing so one of we're doing so one of my like big thesis is whatever we do has my like big thesis is whatever we do has my like big thesis is whatever we do has to be one of one. A few things come to to be one of one. A few things come to to be one of one. A few things come to mind as as you're talking you know one mind as as you're talking you know one mind as as you're talking you know one is is is the importance of owning or creating the importance of owning or creating the importance of owning or creating even better yet a category right even better yet a category right even better yet a category right >> so this category of one idea >> so this category of one idea >> so this category of one idea blue ocean strategy I think at least at blue ocean strategy I think at least at blue ocean strategy I think at least at the time I read it which was a long time the time I read it which was a long time the time I read it which was a long time ago 10 years ago pretty good exploration ago 10 years ago pretty good exploration ago 10 years ago pretty good exploration of this but separately of this but separately of this but separately as I look at the landscape now as I look at the landscape now as I look at the landscape now I've had a lot of people ask me about I've had a lot of people ask me about I've had a lot of people ask me about podcasting if you were to are now what podcasting if you were to are now what podcasting if you were to are now what would you do? And would you do? And would you do? And I could throw out sort of examples of I could throw out sort of examples of I could throw out sort of examples of what I might do, but just from a broader what I might do, but just from a broader what I might do, but just from a broader kind of meta level, I say I think it kind of meta level, I say I think it kind of meta level, I say I think it would be very difficult for me to do would be very difficult for me to do would be very difficult for me to do now or start now what I started in 2014, now or start now what I started in 2014, now or start now what I started in 2014, which was kind of a broad exploration of which was kind of a broad exploration of which was kind of a broad exploration of deconstructing world-class performers in deconstructing world-class performers in deconstructing world-class performers in an interview format. Now there are 600 an interview format. Now there are 600 an interview format. Now there are 600 of those. And of those. And of those. And if you want something that is if you want something that is if you want something that is sustainable and this is not exactly the sustainable and this is not exactly the sustainable and this is not exactly the right way to frame it, but premium from right way to frame it, but premium from right way to frame it, but premium from a partnership perspective, a partnership perspective, a partnership perspective, >> right? From a CPM perspective, from a >> right? From a CPM perspective, from a >> right? From a CPM perspective, from a whatever perspective, the best examples whatever perspective, the best examples whatever perspective, the best examples that I would try to model are shows like that I would try to model are shows like that I would try to model are shows like yours. Although I'm not really um kind yours. Although I'm not really um kind yours. Although I'm not really um kind of shy with video, so I probably of shy with video, so I probably of shy with video, so I probably wouldn't do video first, but it would be wouldn't do video first, but it would be wouldn't do video first, but it would be a show like yours. I mean, if I were 20 a show like yours. I mean, if I were 20 a show like yours. I mean, if I were 20 right now, I'd be like, "That's what I right now, I'd be like, "That's what I right now, I'd be like, "That's what I want to do." If I could have a job, it want to do." If I could have a job, it want to do." If I could have a job, it would be Michelle's job. I mean, would be Michelle's job. I mean, would be Michelle's job. I mean, honestly, it would be. But if you want honestly, it would be. But if you want honestly, it would be. But if you want to look at some other examples where I to look at some other examples where I to look at some other examples where I probably wouldn't pursue it, but they're probably wouldn't pursue it, but they're probably wouldn't pursue it, but they're doing excellent jobs. Acquired, for doing excellent jobs. Acquired, for doing excellent jobs. Acquired, for instance, founders, you know, David instance, founders, you know, David instance, founders, you know, David Senra, highly focused, Senra, highly focused, Senra, highly focused, long form, very hard to replicate long form, very hard to replicate long form, very hard to replicate because there's so much goddamn work, because there's so much goddamn work, because there's so much goddamn work, right? Yes. right? Yes. right? Yes. >> Which is true with yours also. It's >> Which is true with yours also. It's >> Which is true with yours also. It's like, oh, you want to spend six months like, oh, you want to spend six months like, oh, you want to spend six months making a video? Like, let's let's see. making a video? Like, let's let's see. making a video? Like, let's let's see. It's a lot easier to publish frequently It's a lot easier to publish frequently It's a lot easier to publish frequently without thinking as hard about the lead without thinking as hard about the lead without thinking as hard about the lead time of doing something that's very time of doing something that's very time of doing something that's very complex. complex. complex. >> And that was part of the strategy with >> And that was part of the strategy with >> And that was part of the strategy with challenge accepted too is you see many challenge accepted too is you see many challenge accepted too is you see many people copying one another online in any people copying one another online in any people copying one another online in any form of art. People are copying form of art. People are copying form of art. People are copying constantly and part of our defensive constantly and part of our defensive constantly and part of our defensive strategy was how do we do something that strategy was how do we do something that strategy was how do we do something that is so crazy? No one would be no one is so crazy? No one would be no one is so crazy? No one would be no one would be crazy enough I don't think to would be crazy enough I don't think to would be crazy enough I don't think to run seven marathons on all seven run seven marathons on all seven run seven marathons on all seven continents in in one single week and continents in in one single week and continents in in one single week and make a documentary about it and go make a documentary about it and go make a documentary about it and go through all of the production headache through all of the production headache through all of the production headache of that or call the FAA 300 times to get of that or call the FAA 300 times to get of that or call the FAA 300 times to get permission to hang off the side of a permission to hang off the side of a permission to hang off the side of a military plane to recreate the Mission military plane to recreate the Mission military plane to recreate the Mission Impossible stunt. It's almost like the Impossible stunt. It's almost like the Impossible stunt. It's almost like the things that feel so untouchable things that feel so untouchable things that feel so untouchable instantly become opportunities for story instantly become opportunities for story instantly become opportunities for story because it's a great story to try and because it's a great story to try and because it's a great story to try and overcome that. overcome that. overcome that. >> And also the second mover scenario will >> And also the second mover scenario will >> And also the second mover scenario will at least take them so long to catch up at least take them so long to catch up at least take them so long to catch up to us to get there, to us to get there, to us to get there, >> right? Because you're going to be the >> right? Because you're going to be the >> right? Because you're going to be the comp. They're going to say it's like comp. They're going to say it's like comp. They're going to say it's like challenge accepted but dot dot dot. And challenge accepted but dot dot dot. And challenge accepted but dot dot dot. And that is going to be very difficult for that is going to be very difficult for that is going to be very difficult for other people to overcome, right? And I other people to overcome, right? And I other people to overcome, right? And I want to explore this a little bit more want to explore this a little bit more want to explore this a little bit more because it's I think so critical and you because it's I think so critical and you because it's I think so critical and you see it in a lot of different places. see it in a lot of different places. see it in a lot of different places. Sometimes the hard thing Sometimes the hard thing Sometimes the hard thing is the easier thing long term. Meaning is the easier thing long term. Meaning is the easier thing long term. Meaning like if if you solve a very hard problem like if if you solve a very hard problem like if if you solve a very hard problem upfront, upfront, upfront, it makes your life a little easier or a it makes your life a little easier or a it makes your life a little easier or a lot easier long term. lot easier long term. lot easier long term. >> And this applies everywhere, right? >> And this applies everywhere, right? >> And this applies everywhere, right? There's a amazing amazing guy. You There's a amazing amazing guy. You There's a amazing amazing guy. You should meet him at some point. should meet him at some point. should meet him at some point. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Jersey Gregorick and his wife Annella >> Jersey Gregorick and his wife Annella >> Jersey Gregorick and his wife Annella Gregorick. They're Polish immigrants. Gregorick. They're Polish immigrants. Gregorick. They're Polish immigrants. They immigrated to the US with like 10 They immigrated to the US with like 10 They immigrated to the US with like 10 or 100 bucks in their pocket. They were or 100 bucks in their pocket. They were or 100 bucks in their pocket. They were political refugees. Landed in California political refugees. Landed in California political refugees. Landed in California and still to this day, they both have and still to this day, they both have and still to this day, they both have multiple world records in Olympic multiple world records in Olympic multiple world records in Olympic weightlifting. And I would say they're weightlifting. And I would say they're weightlifting. And I would say they're both around mid60s. both around mid60s. both around mid60s. And Jersey can get on an indo board like And Jersey can get on an indo board like And Jersey can get on an indo board like a balance board with a fully loaded a balance board with a fully loaded a balance board with a fully loaded barbell and do a perfect Olympic snatch barbell and do a perfect Olympic snatch barbell and do a perfect Olympic snatch like as to heels and then drop the like as to heels and then drop the like as to heels and then drop the weight and repeat while balancing on a weight and repeat while balancing on a weight and repeat while balancing on a board. He's got to be at least 65 now. board. He's got to be at least 65 now. board. He's got to be at least 65 now. his wife Angela, who also, as I his wife Angela, who also, as I his wife Angela, who also, as I mentioned, has a bunch of world records, mentioned, has a bunch of world records, mentioned, has a bunch of world records, can, you know, her her daughter's, I can, you know, her her daughter's, I can, you know, her her daughter's, I guess, ball got caught in a tree a few guess, ball got caught in a tree a few guess, ball got caught in a tree a few years ago, and she just like ran up the years ago, and she just like ran up the years ago, and she just like ran up the tree and got it and came down. I mean, tree and got it and came down. I mean, tree and got it and came down. I mean, they are incredible physical specimens. they are incredible physical specimens. they are incredible physical specimens. They take no prescription medications. They take no prescription medications. They take no prescription medications. And the reason I'm bringing them up is And the reason I'm bringing them up is And the reason I'm bringing them up is that Jersey has this expression, which that Jersey has this expression, which that Jersey has this expression, which is hard choices, easy life, easy choice is hard choices, easy life, easy choice is hard choices, easy life, easy choice is hard life. And so so it applies in is hard life. And so so it applies in is hard life. And so so it applies in physical training and health. It applies physical training and health. It applies physical training and health. It applies in in in >> creation broadly speaking, right? It's >> creation broadly speaking, right? It's >> creation broadly speaking, right? It's like with what you're doing, right? like with what you're doing, right? like with what you're doing, right? You're creating a moat that is is is You're creating a moat that is is is You're creating a moat that is is is very defensible in a lot of ways. very defensible in a lot of ways. very defensible in a lot of ways. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It applies to startups, right? Where >> It applies to startups, right? Where >> It applies to startups, right? Where it's like, okay, sure. Yeah, you can it's like, okay, sure. Yeah, you can it's like, okay, sure. Yeah, you can vibe code and create something in 20 vibe code and create something in 20 vibe code and create something in 20 minutes and that's interesting and you minutes and that's interesting and you minutes and that's interesting and you should experiment with that. and the should experiment with that. and the should experiment with that. and the barrier to entry has has been lowered barrier to entry has has been lowered barrier to entry has has been lowered dramatically on the production of say an dramatically on the production of say an dramatically on the production of say an app but the barrier to attention has app but the barrier to attention has app but the barrier to attention has never been higher. Therefore, like there never been higher. Therefore, like there never been higher. Therefore, like there is actually something to be said for the is actually something to be said for the is actually something to be said for the hard startup being the easier startup hard startup being the easier startup hard startup being the easier startup where if you're solving a hard problem where if you're solving a hard problem where if you're solving a hard problem that requires a really good team and that requires a really good team and that requires a really good team and like hardware and this that and the like hardware and this that and the like hardware and this that and the other thing, most people are never going other thing, most people are never going other thing, most people are never going to attempt it. Therefore, you actually to attempt it. Therefore, you actually to attempt it. Therefore, you actually have a margin of safety in some respect have a margin of safety in some respect have a margin of safety in some respect if you can execute. Right? So, I I just if you can execute. Right? So, I I just if you can execute. Right? So, I I just wanted to mention that because I I see wanted to mention that because I I see wanted to mention that because I I see this all over the place where this all over the place where this all over the place where if you spend the time to work on if you spend the time to work on if you spend the time to work on something hard up front, it buys you a something hard up front, it buys you a something hard up front, it buys you a lot of safety. lot of safety. lot of safety. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Is at least one way that I think about >> Is at least one way that I think about >> Is at least one way that I think about it. And you've talked about assembling it. And you've talked about assembling it. And you've talked about assembling this Formula 1 team. this Formula 1 team. this Formula 1 team. >> But let's rewind because I'm sure some >> But let's rewind because I'm sure some >> But let's rewind because I'm sure some people are like, "Well, if I don't have people are like, "Well, if I don't have people are like, "Well, if I don't have any money and I'm just getting started, any money and I'm just getting started, any money and I'm just getting started, how do you afford to hire the Formula 1 how do you afford to hire the Formula 1 how do you afford to hire the Formula 1 team? That sounds expensive. So, let's team? That sounds expensive. So, let's team? That sounds expensive. So, let's go back a little bit before you became go back a little bit before you became go back a little bit before you became active on YouTube. What were you doing? active on YouTube. What were you doing? active on YouTube. What were you doing? >> What was I doing? >> What was I doing? >> What was I doing? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Gosh. So, I grew up in Shreport. Got my >> Gosh. So, I grew up in Shreport. Got my >> Gosh. So, I grew up in Shreport. Got my first taste of the film industry there. first taste of the film industry there. first taste of the film industry there. I went to college at Dartmouth. I went to college at Dartmouth. I went to college at Dartmouth. >> Good school. >> Good school. >> Good school. >> Yeah, it was great. And while I was in >> Yeah, it was great. And while I was in >> Yeah, it was great. And while I was in college, I did some internships in the college, I did some internships in the college, I did some internships in the industry, but I also did an internship industry, but I also did an internship industry, but I also did an internship at Google. And so there I sort of saw at Google. And so there I sort of saw at Google. And so there I sort of saw the behind the scenes of the platform I the behind the scenes of the platform I the behind the scenes of the platform I guess I upload to now which was really guess I upload to now which was really guess I upload to now which was really interesting interesting interesting and as I was mentioning to you Tim a lot and as I was mentioning to you Tim a lot and as I was mentioning to you Tim a lot of things that have driven key moments of things that have driven key moments of things that have driven key moments in my life have been moments when my in my life have been moments when my in my life have been moments when my back has been against the wall and one back has been against the wall and one back has been against the wall and one of those moments for me was when you do of those moments for me was when you do of those moments for me was when you do a Google internship I don't think I've a Google internship I don't think I've a Google internship I don't think I've like talked about this much but when you like talked about this much but when you like talked about this much but when you do a Google internship at the end of the do a Google internship at the end of the do a Google internship at the end of the summer like many big internship you find summer like many big internship you find summer like many big internship you find out if you get the job. out if you get the job. out if you get the job. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And you can go into your senior year of >> And you can go into your senior year of >> And you can go into your senior year of college like, "Oh my gosh, I'm rocking. college like, "Oh my gosh, I'm rocking. college like, "Oh my gosh, I'm rocking. I I got the job. I'm set. I can chill I I got the job. I'm set. I can chill I I got the job. I'm set. I can chill out the last year." And there was one out the last year." And there was one out the last year." And there was one day where they called everybody from my day where they called everybody from my day where they called everybody from my internship class letting them know if internship class letting them know if internship class letting them know if they got the job. And we're all in a big they got the job. And we're all in a big they got the job. And we're all in a big text chain together and everyone's like, text chain together and everyone's like, text chain together and everyone's like, "I got it. See you next year." Blah blah "I got it. See you next year." Blah blah "I got it. See you next year." Blah blah blah. blah. blah. >> I get my phone call. >> I get my phone call. >> I get my phone call. >> I didn't get the job. >> I didn't get the job. >> I didn't get the job. >> Yeah. And I would say that this was >> Yeah. And I would say that this was >> Yeah. And I would say that this was pivotal and ironic now that I'm so pivotal and ironic now that I'm so pivotal and ironic now that I'm so embedded in YouTube in a completely embedded in YouTube in a completely embedded in YouTube in a completely different way. But what it forced me to different way. But what it forced me to different way. But what it forced me to do was my whole life had been about as do was my whole life had been about as do was my whole life had been about as as an athlete finding a coach doing as an athlete finding a coach doing as an athlete finding a coach doing exactly what they tell me to do. In exactly what they tell me to do. In exactly what they tell me to do. In school, it was here are all the books to school, it was here are all the books to school, it was here are all the books to do well on the SAT. I will do them. I do well on the SAT. I will do them. I do well on the SAT. I will do them. I will wake up at 5 in the morning over will wake up at 5 in the morning over will wake up at 5 in the morning over the summer and memorize everything and the summer and memorize everything and the summer and memorize everything and do it because that's the formula do it because that's the formula do it because that's the formula >> executing to plan on the >> executing to plan on the >> executing to plan on the >> exact and I think it's part of the >> exact and I think it's part of the >> exact and I think it's part of the immigrant mentality of the holy trinity immigrant mentality of the holy trinity immigrant mentality of the holy trinity of doctor lawyer engineer is because of doctor lawyer engineer is because of doctor lawyer engineer is because those are systems for safety those are systems for safety those are systems for safety >> and also from my family like with many >> and also from my family like with many >> and also from my family like with many immigrant families they know so immigrant families they know so immigrant families they know so intimately what instability feels like intimately what instability feels like intimately what instability feels like >> and So that led me on the course that >> and So that led me on the course that >> and So that led me on the course that eventually led me to Buzzfeed, which was eventually led me to Buzzfeed, which was eventually led me to Buzzfeed, which was in many ways sort of the first creative in many ways sort of the first creative in many ways sort of the first creative risk I had taken on myself. And at the risk I had taken on myself. And at the risk I had taken on myself. And at the time it was the fastest growing YouTube time it was the fastest growing YouTube time it was the fastest growing YouTube channel in the world. channel in the world. channel in the world. >> What was the job that you had at >> What was the job that you had at >> What was the job that you had at BuzzFeed? BuzzFeed? BuzzFeed? >> So I started as an intern again. >> So I started as an intern again. >> So I started as an intern again. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And eventually I became a producer at >> And eventually I became a producer at >> And eventually I became a producer at BuzzFeed. And producer is such a strange BuzzFeed. And producer is such a strange BuzzFeed. And producer is such a strange term even in traditional but what it term even in traditional but what it term even in traditional but what it meant at BuzzFeed was doing everything. meant at BuzzFeed was doing everything. meant at BuzzFeed was doing everything. So I was responsible for everything from So I was responsible for everything from So I was responsible for everything from ideiation to filming, editing, uploading ideiation to filming, editing, uploading ideiation to filming, editing, uploading and I didn't have any of those skills and I didn't have any of those skills and I didn't have any of those skills even though you know my homegrown shripp even though you know my homegrown shripp even though you know my homegrown shripp Louisiana Louisiana Louisiana shout out Vet K my dad putting on his shout out Vet K my dad putting on his shout out Vet K my dad putting on his little AFI film school in our house. It little AFI film school in our house. It little AFI film school in our house. It did not cut it for what we needed to do. did not cut it for what we needed to do. did not cut it for what we needed to do. But what I loved about that was you had But what I loved about that was you had But what I loved about that was you had to learn every part of the process. to learn every part of the process. to learn every part of the process. Unlike when I interned on a traditional Unlike when I interned on a traditional Unlike when I interned on a traditional film set, it's very specialized. There film set, it's very specialized. There film set, it's very specialized. There are unions. You don't even touch are unions. You don't even touch are unions. You don't even touch equipment from a department that's not equipment from a department that's not equipment from a department that's not yours. yours. yours. >> I've seen that. You get yelled at. >> I've seen that. You get yelled at. >> I've seen that. You get yelled at. >> You and you do get yelled at. And there >> You and you do get yelled at. And there >> You and you do get yelled at. And there are great reasons for that. But the are great reasons for that. But the are great reasons for that. But the learning environment was so important learning environment was so important learning environment was so important for me to to learn. When you ingest for me to to learn. When you ingest for me to to learn. When you ingest footage, you can accidentally delete it footage, you can accidentally delete it footage, you can accidentally delete it all. all. all. that sucks. I needed to learn all of that sucks. I needed to learn all of that sucks. I needed to learn all of those processes because even today now those processes because even today now those processes because even today now we have an amazing team, a massive we have an amazing team, a massive we have an amazing team, a massive production team production team production team and and and it helps me as a leader to be able to it helps me as a leader to be able to it helps me as a leader to be able to empathetically chat with each empathetically chat with each empathetically chat with each department. Yeah, department. Yeah, department. Yeah, >> we've all been at companies or on film >> we've all been at companies or on film >> we've all been at companies or on film sets where the director or CEO has never sets where the director or CEO has never sets where the director or CEO has never done the jobs of anyone that they're done the jobs of anyone that they're done the jobs of anyone that they're asking to do a job for. And I like being asking to do a job for. And I like being asking to do a job for. And I like being able to talk to the sound person in my able to talk to the sound person in my able to talk to the sound person in my basic understanding of what are the basic understanding of what are the basic understanding of what are the frequencies we're on, is there anything frequencies we're on, is there anything frequencies we're on, is there anything we need to adjust about this set that is we need to adjust about this set that is we need to adjust about this set that is is disruptive to the way you have the is disruptive to the way you have the is disruptive to the way you have the boom pole set up? Like I like knowing boom pole set up? Like I like knowing boom pole set up? Like I like knowing all of the details and being able to all of the details and being able to all of the details and being able to think critically about each department think critically about each department think critically about each department so everyone can succeed. so everyone can succeed. so everyone can succeed. >> So this is going to be a leading >> So this is going to be a leading >> So this is going to be a leading question, but question, but question, but >> I'm going to try it anyway. Do you think >> I'm going to try it anyway. Do you think >> I'm going to try it anyway. Do you think it's fair to say that if you had not had it's fair to say that if you had not had it's fair to say that if you had not had the BuzzFeed job and you'd gone straight the BuzzFeed job and you'd gone straight the BuzzFeed job and you'd gone straight from not getting the gig at Google to from not getting the gig at Google to from not getting the gig at Google to YouTube that YouTube that YouTube that >> the outcome would have been very >> the outcome would have been very >> the outcome would have been very different? different? different? >> Exponentially different. >> Exponentially different. >> Exponentially different. >> Yeah. I don't think I would have >> Yeah. I don't think I would have >> Yeah. I don't think I would have succeeded period. succeeded period. succeeded period. >> So, I want to spend a second on this >> So, I want to spend a second on this >> So, I want to spend a second on this simply to say because I get simply to say because I get simply to say because I get asked about starting companies all the asked about starting companies all the asked about starting companies all the time, right? And someone's like, "I'm time, right? And someone's like, "I'm time, right? And someone's like, "I'm graduating and I'm going to start my graduating and I'm going to start my graduating and I'm going to start my company." And company." And company." And I think they're sometimes surprised, and I think they're sometimes surprised, and I think they're sometimes surprised, and a lot of professors disagree with me on a lot of professors disagree with me on a lot of professors disagree with me on this, which is fine because I think that this, which is fine because I think that this, which is fine because I think that makes for interesting conversations. But makes for interesting conversations. But makes for interesting conversations. But my default recommendation is do not my default recommendation is do not my default recommendation is do not start a company right after school. start a company right after school. start a company right after school. >> Go get an MBA or a master's degree in X >> Go get an MBA or a master's degree in X >> Go get an MBA or a master's degree in X where you get to do every job where you get to do every job where you get to do every job >> where someone else is paying you for it. >> where someone else is paying you for it. >> where someone else is paying you for it. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So that you are learning learn make all >> So that you are learning learn make all >> So that you are learning learn make all your dumb mistakes or make your first your dumb mistakes or make your first your dumb mistakes or make your first massive round of dumb mistakes on massive round of dumb mistakes on massive round of dumb mistakes on someone else's dime. And if you someone else's dime. And if you someone else's dime. And if you immediately start your own company, immediately start your own company, immediately start your own company, you're also not necessarily going to get you're also not necessarily going to get you're also not necessarily going to get the breadth of experience in a more the breadth of experience in a more the breadth of experience in a more mature and that by mature that could be mature and that by mature that could be mature and that by mature that could be 10 or 20 or 30 employees. It doesn't 10 or 20 or 30 employees. It doesn't 10 or 20 or 30 employees. It doesn't have to be a gigantic company, but get have to be a gigantic company, but get have to be a gigantic company, but get that experience first and then that experience first and then that experience first and then increase the odds of your own success increase the odds of your own success increase the odds of your own success at that point by going and starting your at that point by going and starting your at that point by going and starting your own gig. own gig. own gig. >> Right. And I'm curious if you think >> Right. And I'm curious if you think >> Right. And I'm curious if you think that's still applies for instance in the that's still applies for instance in the that's still applies for instance in the world of and I know this is painting world of and I know this is painting world of and I know this is painting with a broad brush but YouTube if with a broad brush but YouTube if with a broad brush but YouTube if somebody came to you and they said I somebody came to you and they said I somebody came to you and they said I want to get really good at and the world want to get really good at and the world want to get really good at and the world has changed so quickly in in terms of has changed so quickly in in terms of has changed so quickly in in terms of video and entertainment and visual video and entertainment and visual video and entertainment and visual storytelling storytelling storytelling with a startup I would still tell with a startup I would still tell with a startup I would still tell someone hey if you can I know we're all someone hey if you can I know we're all someone hey if you can I know we're all painting this dystopian picture of painting this dystopian picture of painting this dystopian picture of MadMax in 10 years let's just for the MadMax in 10 years let's just for the MadMax in 10 years let's just for the time being for planning purposes assume time being for planning purposes assume time being for planning purposes assume that's not going to be case, work at a that's not going to be case, work at a that's not going to be case, work at a startup first, then start your own startup first, then start your own startup first, then start your own startup. But in the world of visual startup. But in the world of visual startup. But in the world of visual storytelling, would you suggest people storytelling, would you suggest people storytelling, would you suggest people get a job kind of working at a place get a job kind of working at a place get a job kind of working at a place like a Buzzfeed or something like that like a Buzzfeed or something like that like a Buzzfeed or something like that before making the leap into YouTube now, before making the leap into YouTube now, before making the leap into YouTube now, or is there a better way to learn the or is there a better way to learn the or is there a better way to learn the skills necessary to do in-depth long- skills necessary to do in-depth long- skills necessary to do in-depth long- form stuff? I definitely think having form stuff? I definitely think having form stuff? I definitely think having experience working for someone else in experience working for someone else in experience working for someone else in the field that you want to be a part of the field that you want to be a part of the field that you want to be a part of is so educational. Not just to be in the is so educational. Not just to be in the is so educational. Not just to be in the mail room and see how things work, mail room and see how things work, mail room and see how things work, >> but also to define a core tenant list of >> but also to define a core tenant list of >> but also to define a core tenant list of what you enjoy about the company and all what you enjoy about the company and all what you enjoy about the company and all the little things you don't like. Mhm. the little things you don't like. Mhm. the little things you don't like. Mhm. >> When I left my job, I had a very clear >> When I left my job, I had a very clear >> When I left my job, I had a very clear list of list of list of this worked great for for this company, this worked great for for this company, this worked great for for this company, but at my company, I'm never going to do but at my company, I'm never going to do but at my company, I'm never going to do X, Y, or Z. And that was super super X, Y, or Z. And that was super super X, Y, or Z. And that was super super helpful to define company culture, to helpful to define company culture, to helpful to define company culture, to ensure people's voices are heard, to ensure people's voices are heard, to ensure people's voices are heard, to keep employee retention high. keep employee retention high. keep employee retention high. And I think that's why with challenge And I think that's why with challenge And I think that's why with challenge accepted, our sets operate so accepted, our sets operate so accepted, our sets operate so differently that everybody has a digital differently that everybody has a digital differently that everybody has a digital mind of we need to shoot it this way mind of we need to shoot it this way mind of we need to shoot it this way because it will perform well or we're because it will perform well or we're because it will perform well or we're thinking critically about retention and thinking critically about retention and thinking critically about retention and the intro and whatnot, but we're also the intro and whatnot, but we're also the intro and whatnot, but we're also thinking about storytelling as a medium thinking about storytelling as a medium thinking about storytelling as a medium has been solved. has been solved. has been solved. >> Traditional Hollywood, they clearly did >> Traditional Hollywood, they clearly did >> Traditional Hollywood, they clearly did something right and and let's learn from something right and and let's learn from something right and and let's learn from that. that. that. It's as simple as breaking for lunch It's as simple as breaking for lunch It's as simple as breaking for lunch every six hours. It's as simple as every six hours. It's as simple as every six hours. It's as simple as making sure we have enough making sure we have enough making sure we have enough pre-production meetings. And those are pre-production meetings. And those are pre-production meetings. And those are the things that were pain points for me the things that were pain points for me the things that were pain points for me at prior jobs. And I'm able to apply at prior jobs. And I'm able to apply at prior jobs. And I'm able to apply them in this really special space where them in this really special space where them in this really special space where we have an amazing amazing culture and we have an amazing amazing culture and we have an amazing amazing culture and and work environment where people can and work environment where people can and work environment where people can hopefully feel that they're able to hopefully feel that they're able to hopefully feel that they're able to express themselves artistically, express themselves artistically, express themselves artistically, experiment, and learn at the same time. experiment, and learn at the same time. experiment, and learn at the same time. So, I'm trying to figure out where to go So, I'm trying to figure out where to go So, I'm trying to figure out where to go next because next because next because I think it's probably going to be fear I think it's probably going to be fear I think it's probably going to be fear setting just because I want to hear how setting just because I want to hear how setting just because I want to hear how that factors into things. that factors into things. that factors into things. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> why don't we just go there because I've >> why don't we just go there because I've >> why don't we just go there because I've read about and read about and read about and the whiteboard of fears and and other the whiteboard of fears and and other the whiteboard of fears and and other things. I'm sure we'll spend a second on things. I'm sure we'll spend a second on things. I'm sure we'll spend a second on cycling also, but the way that this cycling also, but the way that this cycling also, but the way that this interview ultimately happened was interview ultimately happened was interview ultimately happened was because of an exchange, right? Like I because of an exchange, right? Like I because of an exchange, right? Like I put I put up a post about YouTube put I put up a post about YouTube put I put up a post about YouTube channels. Are there any YouTube channels channels. Are there any YouTube channels channels. Are there any YouTube channels out there that have some type of out there that have some type of out there that have some type of intersection with the 4-hour work week intersection with the 4-hour work week intersection with the 4-hour work week or anything in it? And that's how we we or anything in it? And that's how we we or anything in it? And that's how we we ultimately personally connected. ultimately personally connected. ultimately personally connected. How does fear setting fit into the How does fear setting fit into the How does fear setting fit into the story? story? story? >> Well, Tim, it fits into the story in a >> Well, Tim, it fits into the story in a >> Well, Tim, it fits into the story in a few ways. Challenge accepted at its core few ways. Challenge accepted at its core few ways. Challenge accepted at its core originally began by me taking a originally began by me taking a originally began by me taking a whiteboard and writing all of my fears whiteboard and writing all of my fears whiteboard and writing all of my fears out and then connecting each fear to a out and then connecting each fear to a out and then connecting each fear to a circumstance that would cause me to circumstance that would cause me to circumstance that would cause me to address it. address it. address it. >> Not just as a like personal self-help >> Not just as a like personal self-help >> Not just as a like personal self-help type of thing because I am a very type of thing because I am a very type of thing because I am a very anxious person internally, anxious person internally, anxious person internally, >> but more specifically because it makes >> but more specifically because it makes >> but more specifically because it makes for a better story. Mhm. for a better story. Mhm. for a better story. Mhm. >> We realized very early on showing the >> We realized very early on showing the >> We realized very early on showing the vulnerability, showing the fear, that's vulnerability, showing the fear, that's vulnerability, showing the fear, that's a key part of Snider's beats of a key part of Snider's beats of a key part of Snider's beats of storytelling. So, starting with the all storytelling. So, starting with the all storytelling. So, starting with the all is lost moment of the story led us to is lost moment of the story led us to is lost moment of the story led us to unlock really, really fascinating unlock really, really fascinating unlock really, really fascinating episodes. And we would structure the episodes. And we would structure the episodes. And we would structure the thesis of each of like I want to be a thesis of each of like I want to be a thesis of each of like I want to be a firefighter, but I'm not brave enough. firefighter, but I'm not brave enough. firefighter, but I'm not brave enough. Okay, that's an interesting story. And Okay, that's an interesting story. And Okay, that's an interesting story. And we're thinking about that in every piece we're thinking about that in every piece we're thinking about that in every piece of the edit, every piece of the of the edit, every piece of the of the edit, every piece of the pre-production. And that is the climax pre-production. And that is the climax pre-production. And that is the climax of the emotional core of when I finally of the emotional core of when I finally of the emotional core of when I finally go in a burning building. go in a burning building. go in a burning building. >> Why we care so much? It's the same in >> Why we care so much? It's the same in >> Why we care so much? It's the same in the Mission Impossible project. I would the Mission Impossible project. I would the Mission Impossible project. I would love to be in a Mission Impossible love to be in a Mission Impossible love to be in a Mission Impossible movie. But am I actually brave enough to movie. But am I actually brave enough to movie. But am I actually brave enough to strap myself to the side of a plane like strap myself to the side of a plane like strap myself to the side of a plane like icon Tom Cruz? Okay, I've got to do that icon Tom Cruz? Okay, I've got to do that icon Tom Cruz? Okay, I've got to do that first. But I actually brought something, first. But I actually brought something, first. But I actually brought something, Tim. Tim. Tim. >> You brought something? >> You brought something? >> You brought something? >> I brought something to help demonstrate >> I brought something to help demonstrate >> I brought something to help demonstrate fear setting. fear setting. fear setting. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> I'm going to bring it out now. >> I'm going to bring it out now. >> I'm going to bring it out now. >> Yeah, let's do I'll describe it for the >> Yeah, let's do I'll describe it for the >> Yeah, let's do I'll describe it for the audio listeners. >> No, I ren >> No, I ren the colors. the colors. the colors. >> Okay. Unfortunately, you are dealing >> Okay. Unfortunately, you are dealing >> Okay. Unfortunately, you are dealing with a fan in the chair opposite from with a fan in the chair opposite from with a fan in the chair opposite from you. But reading the 4-hour work week you. But reading the 4-hour work week you. But reading the 4-hour work week changed my life. changed my life. changed my life. >> This is the original copy I have from >> This is the original copy I have from >> This is the original copy I have from 2016. I was a bit young when it came out 2016. I was a bit young when it came out 2016. I was a bit young when it came out in 2007, so I didn't have that that in 2007, so I didn't have that that in 2007, so I didn't have that that version. So, this might be slightly version. So, this might be slightly version. So, this might be slightly revised, but I went back into my revised, but I went back into my revised, but I went back into my archives archives archives >> and I found this email. >> and I found this email. >> and I found this email. The date is, what is today? March 31st, The date is, what is today? March 31st, The date is, what is today? March 31st, 2026. 2026. 2026. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> The date of this email, >> The date of this email, >> The date of this email, I'm not making this up. March 18th, I'm not making this up. March 18th, I'm not making this up. March 18th, 2016. It has been exactly 10 years since 2016. It has been exactly 10 years since 2016. It has been exactly 10 years since I sent this email. I sent this email. I sent this email. >> Okay. I have to shout out my therapist >> Okay. I have to shout out my therapist >> Okay. I have to shout out my therapist Jodie because she's the one who told me Jodie because she's the one who told me Jodie because she's the one who told me to read your book and I wanted to read a to read your book and I wanted to read a to read your book and I wanted to read a section of my fear setting. section of my fear setting. section of my fear setting. >> Oh my god. Amazing. >> Oh my god. Amazing. >> Oh my god. Amazing. >> Now, as you know, because these are your >> Now, as you know, because these are your >> Now, as you know, because these are your memories in your brain. This was prior memories in your brain. This was prior memories in your brain. This was prior to the define to the define to the define prevent repair chart of your 2017 prevent repair chart of your 2017 prevent repair chart of your 2017 talk. talk. talk. >> So, this isn't even in a chart. These >> So, this isn't even in a chart. These >> So, this isn't even in a chart. These are just a couple of questions that you are just a couple of questions that you are just a couple of questions that you had. But I wrote here this 20. This is had. But I wrote here this 20. This is had. But I wrote here this 20. This is so crazy. My dream is to leave my job, so crazy. My dream is to leave my job, so crazy. My dream is to leave my job, start a YouTube channel, somehow start a YouTube channel, somehow start a YouTube channel, somehow succeed, own my ideas, and start a succeed, own my ideas, and start a succeed, own my ideas, and start a company where I can grow as a company where I can grow as a company where I can grow as a storyteller and help other storytellers storyteller and help other storytellers storyteller and help other storytellers grow without traditional barriers to grow without traditional barriers to grow without traditional barriers to entry. entry. entry. >> Number one, define your nightmare. I'm >> Number one, define your nightmare. I'm >> Number one, define your nightmare. I'm just going to read a few of the just going to read a few of the just going to read a few of the highlights, highlights, highlights, >> please. Oh, yeah. No, take your time. to >> please. Oh, yeah. No, take your time. to >> please. Oh, yeah. No, take your time. to find my nightmare was going broke, never find my nightmare was going broke, never find my nightmare was going broke, never figuring out what I'm best at since I figuring out what I'm best at since I figuring out what I'm best at since I find the most joy in trying everything find the most joy in trying everything find the most joy in trying everything rather than specializing. rather than specializing. rather than specializing. People not thinking I'm funny. And the People not thinking I'm funny. And the People not thinking I'm funny. And the last one is actually not being funny. >> And of course, I went through the steps >> And of course, I went through the steps of repairing the damage. of repairing the damage. of repairing the damage. >> Do you have any examples there? Of >> Do you have any examples there? Of >> Do you have any examples there? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Because for just I course. Yeah. Yeah. Because for just I course. Yeah. Yeah. Because for just I want to give like a quick want to give like a quick want to give like a quick No, no, not spiel. Just like a quick No, no, not spiel. Just like a quick No, no, not spiel. Just like a quick context rapper. So, fear setting is a context rapper. So, fear setting is a context rapper. So, fear setting is a pretty straightforward thing. It's pretty straightforward thing. It's pretty straightforward thing. It's basically barred from the Stoics. I'm basically barred from the Stoics. I'm basically barred from the Stoics. I'm not the first person to look at this. I not the first person to look at this. I not the first person to look at this. I just tried to systematize it for myself. just tried to systematize it for myself. just tried to systematize it for myself. It was in the 4-hour work week. And it's It was in the 4-hour work week. And it's It was in the 4-hour work week. And it's like goal setting, but it's identifying like goal setting, but it's identifying like goal setting, but it's identifying your fears very specifically your fears very specifically your fears very specifically >> and then making them as concrete as >> and then making them as concrete as >> and then making them as concrete as possible, then talking about what you possible, then talking about what you possible, then talking about what you might do to prevent them and or repair might do to prevent them and or repair might do to prevent them and or repair them if they inevitably happened. And them if they inevitably happened. And them if they inevitably happened. And the objective here is to in a sense the objective here is to in a sense the objective here is to in a sense demystify and take your fears from being demystify and take your fears from being demystify and take your fears from being this nebulous cloud of anxiety to this nebulous cloud of anxiety to this nebulous cloud of anxiety to something that you can put under a something that you can put under a something that you can put under a microscope microscope microscope >> to test. >> to test. >> to test. >> Yes. So the first part is defining the >> Yes. So the first part is defining the >> Yes. So the first part is defining the nightmare. The second is what steps nightmare. The second is what steps nightmare. The second is what steps would you take to repair the damage even would you take to repair the damage even would you take to repair the damage even temporarily? And here I had temporarily? And here I had temporarily? And here I had using some using some using some using using my savings from my Google using using my savings from my Google using using my savings from my Google internship. internship. internship. >> Yeah. So, I did have savings from that. >> Yeah. So, I did have savings from that. >> Yeah. So, I did have savings from that. And then making sure that my resume or And then making sure that my resume or And then making sure that my resume or LinkedIn was ready for other jobs in the LinkedIn was ready for other jobs in the LinkedIn was ready for other jobs in the industry. This is number three. If you industry. This is number three. If you industry. This is number three. If you were fired from your job today, how were fired from your job today, how were fired from your job today, how would you get things under financial would you get things under financial would you get things under financial control? And I I said that I would control? And I I said that I would control? And I I said that I would temporarily use my savings and if that temporarily use my savings and if that temporarily use my savings and if that didn't work out, aggressively apply for didn't work out, aggressively apply for didn't work out, aggressively apply for other jobs. Enlisted some other other jobs. Enlisted some other other jobs. Enlisted some other companies I would reach out to. This is companies I would reach out to. This is companies I would reach out to. This is where it gets very intense. What are you where it gets very intense. What are you where it gets very intense. What are you putting off out of fear? I'm putting off putting off out of fear? I'm putting off putting off out of fear? I'm putting off quitting my job. I'm putting off quitting my job. I'm putting off quitting my job. I'm putting off reaching out to all the people I need to reaching out to all the people I need to reaching out to all the people I need to to make this dream a reality because it to make this dream a reality because it to make this dream a reality because it means I have to say it out loud. I've means I have to say it out loud. I've means I have to say it out loud. I've reached out to some people, but I know I reached out to some people, but I know I reached out to some people, but I know I can do better. What is it costing you can do better. What is it costing you can do better. What is it costing you financially, emotionally, physically to financially, emotionally, physically to financially, emotionally, physically to postpone action? postpone action? postpone action? I'm under emotional high stress. I want I'm under emotional high stress. I want I'm under emotional high stress. I want to tell stories that really resonate to tell stories that really resonate to tell stories that really resonate with other people. I want to be around with other people. I want to be around with other people. I want to be around people who share creative joy in the people who share creative joy in the people who share creative joy in the same values of quality that I do. I am same values of quality that I do. I am same values of quality that I do. I am unhappy in an environment where I feel unhappy in an environment where I feel unhappy in an environment where I feel like people feel the opposite. What are like people feel the opposite. What are like people feel the opposite. What are you waiting for? So this is the last you waiting for? So this is the last you waiting for? So this is the last section. I'm waiting for a false sense section. I'm waiting for a false sense section. I'm waiting for a false sense of security to inspire me to take a of security to inspire me to take a of security to inspire me to take a leap. A brand offering to collaborate, leap. A brand offering to collaborate, leap. A brand offering to collaborate, someone else offering financial someone else offering financial someone else offering financial stability, etc. stability, etc. stability, etc. But I'm actually being challenged and But I'm actually being challenged and But I'm actually being challenged and invited to create my own security for invited to create my own security for invited to create my own security for the first time. I have the first time. I have the first time. I have Oh, this is like crazy to read. Oh, this is like crazy to read. Oh, this is like crazy to read. I've continually found success in other I've continually found success in other I've continually found success in other people's rubric of success, but I've people's rubric of success, but I've people's rubric of success, but I've actually never found happiness. I've I've never designed never designed never designed my own rubric of success and that's because I don't trust myself and that's because I don't trust myself to define success. to define success. to define success. I'm scared to assume that I'm scared to assume that I'm scared to assume that responsibility. responsibility. responsibility. That was my fear setting. It's very personal process. It's very personal process. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. >> I know you and anyone listening who have >> I know you and anyone listening who have >> I know you and anyone listening who have actually like done it can can empathize actually like done it can can empathize actually like done it can can empathize with that. with that. with that. >> Mhm. I'm a very emotional person as you >> Mhm. I'm a very emotional person as you >> Mhm. I'm a very emotional person as you can see from my videos. It's real. can see from my videos. It's real. can see from my videos. It's real. >> Anyways, I was so excited to share that >> Anyways, I was so excited to share that >> Anyways, I was so excited to share that with you. with you. with you. >> I'm so moved by you sharing that and I >> I'm so moved by you sharing that and I >> I'm so moved by you sharing that and I really appreciate you bringing that. really appreciate you bringing that. really appreciate you bringing that. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> And you [ __ ] did it also, right? >> And you [ __ ] did it also, right? >> And you [ __ ] did it also, right? >> God, that's crazy. Like, guys, it works. >> God, that's crazy. Like, guys, it works. >> God, that's crazy. Like, guys, it works. It It actually works. Wait, I didn't It It actually works. Wait, I didn't It It actually works. Wait, I didn't tell you the funniest part of this. Here tell you the funniest part of this. Here tell you the funniest part of this. Here was the funniest part. So, this has was the funniest part. So, this has was the funniest part. So, this has obviously been on my bookshelf for 10 obviously been on my bookshelf for 10 obviously been on my bookshelf for 10 years at this point, and I am a copious years at this point, and I am a copious years at this point, and I am a copious like you, handwriter, notetaker. I beat like you, handwriter, notetaker. I beat like you, handwriter, notetaker. I beat up my books. I write in the margins and up my books. I write in the margins and up my books. I write in the margins and proof. I mean, like, this is you can see proof. I mean, like, this is you can see proof. I mean, like, this is you can see the wear and tear on this thing. But the wear and tear on this thing. But the wear and tear on this thing. But when I opened this, there was absolutely when I opened this, there was absolutely when I opened this, there was absolutely no annotation. And I was like, why is no annotation. And I was like, why is no annotation. And I was like, why is this? And I I felt stumped on it. And it this? And I I felt stumped on it. And it this? And I I felt stumped on it. And it wasn't until I found this email where it wasn't until I found this email where it wasn't until I found this email where it was revealed. Okay, this is how I wrote was revealed. Okay, this is how I wrote was revealed. Okay, this is how I wrote to my therapist with the chart. to my therapist with the chart. to my therapist with the chart. OMG, all caps. I am obsessed with the OMG, all caps. I am obsessed with the OMG, all caps. I am obsessed with the 4hour work week. Several exclamation 4hour work week. Several exclamation 4hour work week. Several exclamation points. I just got the book on Monday points. I just got the book on Monday points. I just got the book on Monday from my coworker and I've been reading from my coworker and I've been reading from my coworker and I've been reading it incessantly every night. Here's my it incessantly every night. Here's my it incessantly every night. Here's my fear setting exercise. fear setting exercise. fear setting exercise. I stole this book apparently. I stole this book apparently. I stole this book apparently. And I sat and I was like I called my And I sat and I was like I called my And I sat and I was like I called my therapist last night before the therapist last night before the therapist last night before the recording. I was like, who would I have recording. I was like, who would I have recording. I was like, who would I have borrowed this book from? I couldn't I borrowed this book from? I couldn't I borrowed this book from? I couldn't I have no idea whose book is in my lap have no idea whose book is in my lap have no idea whose book is in my lap right now, but it's been on my shelf for right now, but it's been on my shelf for right now, but it's been on my shelf for 10 years. Whoever it is, I'm so sorry. 10 years. Whoever it is, I'm so sorry. 10 years. Whoever it is, I'm so sorry. By the way, I did buy all of your other By the way, I did buy all of your other By the way, I did buy all of your other books, so I did contribute to that books, so I did contribute to that books, so I did contribute to that economy, but I have a stolen Tim Ferris economy, but I have a stolen Tim Ferris economy, but I have a stolen Tim Ferris book. book. book. >> I should like contribute to the cycle >> I should like contribute to the cycle >> I should like contribute to the cycle and donate it to a library or something. and donate it to a library or something. and donate it to a library or something. But But But >> oh my god, that is so good. It's so >> oh my god, that is so good. It's so >> oh my god, that is so good. It's so funny because the person from my job who funny because the person from my job who funny because the person from my job who let me borrow and steal this has no idea let me borrow and steal this has no idea let me borrow and steal this has no idea how much they impact me because I don't how much they impact me because I don't how much they impact me because I don't even remember who it was. I mean, we even remember who it was. I mean, we even remember who it was. I mean, we were all in a bullpin with 30 desks. I were all in a bullpin with 30 desks. I were all in a bullpin with 30 desks. I probably just borrowed it from someone probably just borrowed it from someone probably just borrowed it from someone who sat next to me. But who sat next to me. But who sat next to me. But >> so here's a follow-up question on the on >> so here's a follow-up question on the on >> so here's a follow-up question on the on the fear setting. And this isn't a trick the fear setting. And this isn't a trick the fear setting. And this isn't a trick question because when people question because when people question because when people experience experience experience any any any ambitious or scary journey for ambitious or scary journey for ambitious or scary journey for themselves, often the same thing. themselves, often the same thing. themselves, often the same thing. >> It's not a straightforward line up and >> It's not a straightforward line up and >> It's not a straightforward line up and to the right. It's a bumpy path. to the right. It's a bumpy path. to the right. It's a bumpy path. >> After doing that, when did you take >> After doing that, when did you take >> After doing that, when did you take action towards realizing the dream? action towards realizing the dream? action towards realizing the dream? could have been a very small thing. I could have been a very small thing. I could have been a very small thing. I don't know. But like what was the kind don't know. But like what was the kind don't know. But like what was the kind of defining first step that kind of set of defining first step that kind of set of defining first step that kind of set you on the actual path to realizing what you on the actual path to realizing what you on the actual path to realizing what you laid out? you laid out? you laid out? >> I took action pretty immediately, but it >> I took action pretty immediately, but it >> I took action pretty immediately, but it took me a year to quit my job. And I'll took me a year to quit my job. And I'll took me a year to quit my job. And I'll define what the difference is. I took define what the difference is. I took define what the difference is. I took action immediately by this might be action immediately by this might be action immediately by this might be crazy. This was a Tim Ferrris crazy. This was a Tim Ferrris crazy. This was a Tim Ferrris experiment. I really resonated with what experiment. I really resonated with what experiment. I really resonated with what you wrote about you wrote about you wrote about coming to terms with the worst possible coming to terms with the worst possible coming to terms with the worst possible outcome. outcome. outcome. >> And so I decided I'm going to train >> And so I decided I'm going to train >> And so I decided I'm going to train myself for the worst possible outcome. myself for the worst possible outcome. myself for the worst possible outcome. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> So I moved into a studio apartment with >> So I moved into a studio apartment with >> So I moved into a studio apartment with a roommate. a roommate. a roommate. >> I cut like like financially stripped >> I cut like like financially stripped >> I cut like like financially stripped down. I mean, I didn't have much down. I mean, I didn't have much down. I mean, I didn't have much anyways, but stripped as much as I could anyways, but stripped as much as I could anyways, but stripped as much as I could to simulate if if I'm truly failing at to simulate if if I'm truly failing at to simulate if if I'm truly failing at this and having having to live in a this and having having to live in a this and having having to live in a Hollywood apartment with a bunch of Hollywood apartment with a bunch of Hollywood apartment with a bunch of roommates. I'm just going to get used to roommates. I'm just going to get used to roommates. I'm just going to get used to that. I'm going to get used to it right that. I'm going to get used to it right that. I'm going to get used to it right now. I'm going to cancel all of my now. I'm going to cancel all of my now. I'm going to cancel all of my memberships and figure out how to stay memberships and figure out how to stay memberships and figure out how to stay healthy with just myself. Just myself in healthy with just myself. Just myself in healthy with just myself. Just myself in in this small place. I am also going to in this small place. I am also going to in this small place. I am also going to commit to working on my own stories commit to working on my own stories commit to working on my own stories after work on the weekends because if I after work on the weekends because if I after work on the weekends because if I can't do it now with stability, I I need can't do it now with stability, I I need can't do it now with stability, I I need to prove to myself that I actually give to prove to myself that I actually give to prove to myself that I actually give a [ __ ] about this really. And I did that a [ __ ] about this really. And I did that a [ __ ] about this really. And I did that for an entire year. for an entire year. for an entire year. growing a little bit of a personal growing a little bit of a personal growing a little bit of a personal savings but also growing mental and savings but also growing mental and savings but also growing mental and physical stamina towards physical stamina towards physical stamina towards I'm already in still a place of safety I'm already in still a place of safety I'm already in still a place of safety of course but I am in a situation where of course but I am in a situation where of course but I am in a situation where I think I can handle this I got this I think I can handle this I got this I think I can handle this I got this like the LinkedIn is up to date the like the LinkedIn is up to date the like the LinkedIn is up to date the resume is up to date I am so ready I resume is up to date I am so ready I resume is up to date I am so ready I have defined prevent and hopefully we have defined prevent and hopefully we have defined prevent and hopefully we don't got to go to that third column don't got to go to that third column don't got to go to that third column repair and so then a year later exactly repair and so then a year later exactly repair and so then a year later exactly I quit my job. And when I quit, I had I quit my job. And when I quit, I had I quit my job. And when I quit, I had two months of videos backlogged, ready two months of videos backlogged, ready two months of videos backlogged, ready to go. Also, legally, for the record, on to go. Also, legally, for the record, on to go. Also, legally, for the record, on my own machine, not company resources. my own machine, not company resources. my own machine, not company resources. All of that was ready to go. And I knew All of that was ready to go. And I knew All of that was ready to go. And I knew what my first big project would be, what my first big project would be, what my first big project would be, training with stunt doubles. I had a training with stunt doubles. I had a training with stunt doubles. I had a shoot date ready. I had taken, you know, shoot date ready. I had taken, you know, shoot date ready. I had taken, you know, I only had like three months of savings I only had like three months of savings I only had like three months of savings at that point. And I had had allocated at that point. And I had had allocated at that point. And I had had allocated this is going to be for the dream this is going to be for the dream this is going to be for the dream project, my first risk on my channel. project, my first risk on my channel. project, my first risk on my channel. Nothing will touch that. The rest is is Nothing will touch that. The rest is is Nothing will touch that. The rest is is for operating daily life expenses. And I for operating daily life expenses. And I for operating daily life expenses. And I said, I got three months to to make this said, I got three months to to make this said, I got three months to to make this work. And like you said, you know, like work. And like you said, you know, like work. And like you said, you know, like we've been talking about sometimes you we've been talking about sometimes you we've been talking about sometimes you got to put your back against the wall got to put your back against the wall got to put your back against the wall and go. and go. and go. >> I love this. So So this is I feel like >> I love this. So So this is I feel like >> I love this. So So this is I feel like we were separated at birth. So So we were separated at birth. So So we were separated at birth. So So a few things I I'll say. number one to a few things I I'll say. number one to a few things I I'll say. number one to try to not that I have I'm not a paragon try to not that I have I'm not a paragon try to not that I have I'm not a paragon of self-awareness but I I will say that of self-awareness but I I will say that of self-awareness but I I will say that I for different reasons have a certain I for different reasons have a certain I for different reasons have a certain like hypervigilance focus on safety and like hypervigilance focus on safety and like hypervigilance focus on safety and security which might sound strange to security which might sound strange to security which might sound strange to people listening but I'm always trying people listening but I'm always trying people listening but I'm always trying to risk mitigate right I'm actually I to risk mitigate right I'm actually I to risk mitigate right I'm actually I don't view myself as a big risk taker I don't view myself as a big risk taker I don't view myself as a big risk taker I have done a few things that have ended have done a few things that have ended have done a few things that have ended up with me accumulating injuries that up with me accumulating injuries that up with me accumulating injuries that maybe in retrospect shouldn't have done maybe in retrospect shouldn't have done maybe in retrospect shouldn't have done But broadly speaking, I'm always trying But broadly speaking, I'm always trying But broadly speaking, I'm always trying to mitigate risk, which is underscores to mitigate risk, which is underscores to mitigate risk, which is underscores this entire fear setting exercise, this entire fear setting exercise, this entire fear setting exercise, right? Cuz it's not just about right? Cuz it's not just about right? Cuz it's not just about convincing yourself. It's also in my convincing yourself. It's also in my convincing yourself. It's also in my mind completely intertwined with what mind completely intertwined with what mind completely intertwined with what you did, which is you did, which is you did, which is preparing preparing preparing and training yourself and your and training yourself and your and training yourself and your circumstances, right? So circumstances, right? So circumstances, right? So when I flash back to starting my first when I flash back to starting my first when I flash back to starting my first company, it's like how did I start the company, it's like how did I start the company, it's like how did I start the first company? I started my first first company? I started my first first company? I started my first company during lunch hours, evenings, company during lunch hours, evenings, company during lunch hours, evenings, and weekends basically while still doing and weekends basically while still doing and weekends basically while still doing my other job and doing my other job my other job and doing my other job my other job and doing my other job well. well. well. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But I wanted to have a head start so >> But I wanted to have a head start so >> But I wanted to have a head start so that I wasn't beginning from scratch that I wasn't beginning from scratch that I wasn't beginning from scratch after quitting a job. Right. So I did after quitting a job. Right. So I did after quitting a job. Right. So I did that. By the way, you're simultaneously that. By the way, you're simultaneously that. By the way, you're simultaneously developing skills as you're doing that developing skills as you're doing that developing skills as you're doing that and proving that you don't need the and proving that you don't need the and proving that you don't need the crutch or the or the training wheels of crutch or the or the training wheels of crutch or the or the training wheels of your company, your company, your company, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> to enable you to do those things, right? >> to enable you to do those things, right? >> to enable you to do those things, right? So, the moonlighting aspect, this is So, the moonlighting aspect, this is So, the moonlighting aspect, this is another thing that that another thing that that another thing that that at least in in my mind maybe conflicts at least in in my mind maybe conflicts at least in in my mind maybe conflicts with with with how some listeners might think about me, how some listeners might think about me, how some listeners might think about me, but there's a difference between I'd be but there's a difference between I'd be but there's a difference between I'd be curious to hear you speak to this. curious to hear you speak to this. curious to hear you speak to this. There's a difference between putting There's a difference between putting There's a difference between putting your back against a wall, in other your back against a wall, in other your back against a wall, in other words, like highly pushing yourself to words, like highly pushing yourself to words, like highly pushing yourself to make a decision, make a decision, make a decision, >> and like burning all the ships and >> and like burning all the ships and >> and like burning all the ships and burning all the bridges. burning all the bridges. burning all the bridges. And the way I would frame the difference And the way I would frame the difference And the way I would frame the difference is is is when like a year to the to the day when like a year to the to the day when like a year to the to the day almost, right, you quit your job and almost, right, you quit your job and almost, right, you quit your job and you're setting up this groundwork and you're setting up this groundwork and you're setting up this groundwork and you have some videos ready to go and you you have some videos ready to go and you you have some videos ready to go and you were in where were you at the time? This were in where were you at the time? This were in where were you at the time? This was in was in was in >> in LA. >> in LA. >> in LA. >> In LA. So, you've got probably Cobra, >> In LA. So, you've got probably Cobra, >> In LA. So, you've got probably Cobra, right? You might have some like residual right? You might have some like residual right? You might have some like residual health care after you quit. I'm not sure health care after you quit. I'm not sure health care after you quit. I'm not sure what how it was set up benefit-wise, but what how it was set up benefit-wise, but what how it was set up benefit-wise, but like in my company, I knew I had at like in my company, I knew I had at like in my company, I knew I had at least like a handful of months where I least like a handful of months where I least like a handful of months where I wasn't going to have to pay for my own wasn't going to have to pay for my own wasn't going to have to pay for my own healthare. And in that case, right, as healthare. And in that case, right, as healthare. And in that case, right, as you're thinking about what could I do you're thinking about what could I do you're thinking about what could I do if this fails, right? If it doesn't work if this fails, right? If it doesn't work if this fails, right? If it doesn't work out, what could I do? You've got your out, what could I do? You've got your out, what could I do? You've got your LinkedIn and resume ready to go. LinkedIn and resume ready to go. LinkedIn and resume ready to go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And in my fear setting, and for a >> Right. And in my fear setting, and for a >> Right. And in my fear setting, and for a lot of people, it's like, well, I could lot of people, it's like, well, I could lot of people, it's like, well, I could get like a temp waitering job. I could get like a temp waitering job. I could get like a temp waitering job. I could >> bartend. I could sell a bunch of my >> bartend. I could sell a bunch of my >> bartend. I could sell a bunch of my furniture. I could sell my piece of [ __ ] furniture. I could sell my piece of [ __ ] furniture. I could sell my piece of [ __ ] used car and, you know, take public used car and, you know, take public used car and, you know, take public transport. I could whatever, right? transport. I could whatever, right? transport. I could whatever, right? Sleep on an air mattress in a friend's Sleep on an air mattress in a friend's Sleep on an air mattress in a friend's room. So, in a sense, like you've proven room. So, in a sense, like you've proven room. So, in a sense, like you've proven to yourself that the permanent to yourself that the permanent to yourself that the permanent irreversible risk is actually low, irreversible risk is actually low, irreversible risk is actually low, right? while at the same time propelling right? while at the same time propelling right? while at the same time propelling yourself towards this like defining yourself towards this like defining yourself towards this like defining decision which is like taking the leap decision which is like taking the leap decision which is like taking the leap >> and I think the emotional stability of >> and I think the emotional stability of >> and I think the emotional stability of that decision is important. You want to that decision is important. You want to that decision is important. You want to be able to brainstorm what should I do be able to brainstorm what should I do be able to brainstorm what should I do in the worst case scenario from a place in the worst case scenario from a place in the worst case scenario from a place of safety which is what I had at the job of safety which is what I had at the job of safety which is what I had at the job still. So I was able to be creative still. So I was able to be creative still. So I was able to be creative about thinking about solutions without about thinking about solutions without about thinking about solutions without being panicked at the same time in that being panicked at the same time in that being panicked at the same time in that situation. situation. situation. >> Exactly. What an amazing story. What >> Exactly. What an amazing story. What >> Exactly. What an amazing story. What fun. And it's so it's a recipe, right? fun. And it's so it's a recipe, right? fun. And it's so it's a recipe, right? It's replicable. It's going to be It's replicable. It's going to be It's replicable. It's going to be different for every person, but it is different for every person, but it is different for every person, but it is actually it's a formula that works like actually it's a formula that works like actually it's a formula that works like a lot of things. And a lot of things. And a lot of things. And I I want to also mention a few things I I want to also mention a few things I I want to also mention a few things that come to mind just to draw some that come to mind just to draw some that come to mind just to draw some parallels. So you mentioned parallels. So you mentioned parallels. So you mentioned BuzzFeed where you learn to do all of BuzzFeed where you learn to do all of BuzzFeed where you learn to do all of these different jobs, right? And there's these different jobs, right? And there's these different jobs, right? And there's a benefit to that above and beyond the a benefit to that above and beyond the a benefit to that above and beyond the expertise of say spot-checking your expertise of say spot-checking your expertise of say spot-checking your team's work or something like that. Your team's work or something like that. Your team's work or something like that. Your team will also respect you more because team will also respect you more because team will also respect you more because they know you have done the thing you they know you have done the thing you they know you have done the thing you are asking them to do which you did kind are asking them to do which you did kind are asking them to do which you did kind of mention in passing but it's really of mention in passing but it's really of mention in passing but it's really important right I think of I have some important right I think of I have some important right I think of I have some PTSD memories of this book but the PTSD memories of this book but the PTSD memories of this book but the 4-hour chef like which which which 4-hour chef like which which which 4-hour chef like which which which confusingly is a book about accelerated confusingly is a book about accelerated confusingly is a book about accelerated learning actually tried to do a lot with learning actually tried to do a lot with learning actually tried to do a lot with that book very proud of it think it that book very proud of it think it that book very proud of it think it worked but the reason I bring it up is worked but the reason I bring it up is worked but the reason I bring it up is there's a chef who's profiled in that there's a chef who's profiled in that there's a chef who's profiled in that named Grant Ackets who was basically named Grant Ackets who was basically named Grant Ackets who was basically one of two superheroes in a sense. I one of two superheroes in a sense. I one of two superheroes in a sense. I mean, they both have superpowers, right? mean, they both have superpowers, right? mean, they both have superpowers, right? You had Grant Ackets, the like chef You had Grant Ackets, the like chef You had Grant Ackets, the like chef Vundakint genius, and then you have Nick Vundakint genius, and then you have Nick Vundakint genius, and then you have Nick Kakonis, who I've become very close Kakonis, who I've become very close Kakonis, who I've become very close friends with, who is a former friends with, who is a former friends with, who is a former genius options trader at the in Chicago genius options trader at the in Chicago genius options trader at the in Chicago who then decides to get in touch with who then decides to get in touch with who then decides to get in touch with Grant. He he's magical at cold emailing, Grant. He he's magical at cold emailing, Grant. He he's magical at cold emailing, which I want to talk to you about. Very which I want to talk to you about. Very which I want to talk to you about. Very good at cold emailing. and they got good at cold emailing. and they got good at cold emailing. and they got together and Nick is from a business together and Nick is from a business together and Nick is from a business kind of challenging and redesigning of kind of challenging and redesigning of kind of challenging and redesigning of systems perspective incredible. But the systems perspective incredible. But the systems perspective incredible. But the reason I bring it up is that Grant reason I bring it up is that Grant reason I bring it up is that Grant can work every station in the restaurant can work every station in the restaurant can work every station in the restaurant better than everybody else. which is not better than everybody else. which is not better than everybody else. which is not to say automatically that I or you can to say automatically that I or you can to say automatically that I or you can do that with all of our team members, do that with all of our team members, do that with all of our team members, but he's at at the very least incredibly but he's at at the very least incredibly but he's at at the very least incredibly good at each of the stations so that he good at each of the stations so that he good at each of the stations so that he can when need be improve systems, change can when need be improve systems, change can when need be improve systems, change things. He can also teach and coach. He things. He can also teach and coach. He things. He can also teach and coach. He can give feedback and if he gives can give feedback and if he gives can give feedback and if he gives feedback, people take it seriously feedback, people take it seriously feedback, people take it seriously because they know he's done it himself because they know he's done it himself because they know he's done it himself and he knows what he's talking about, and he knows what he's talking about, and he knows what he's talking about, right? So there's a huge advantage to right? So there's a huge advantage to right? So there's a huge advantage to that and it makes your mistakes later that and it makes your mistakes later that and it makes your mistakes later less expensive also and it it allows you less expensive also and it it allows you less expensive also and it it allows you to hire more effectively whether that to hire more effectively whether that to hire more effectively whether that hiring is a contractor or full-time. hiring is a contractor or full-time. hiring is a contractor or full-time. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So you I just wrote this down and >> Okay. So you I just wrote this down and >> Okay. So you I just wrote this down and I I have to mention it because like I I have to mention it because like I I have to mention it because like basically I'm living vicariously through basically I'm living vicariously through basically I'm living vicariously through you now. you now. you now. >> Oh my god. um in a sense because your >> Oh my god. um in a sense because your >> Oh my god. um in a sense because your channel is like oh my god like that's if channel is like oh my god like that's if channel is like oh my god like that's if I could have sort of self authored a I could have sort of self authored a I could have sort of self authored a path to doing that like oh man what an path to doing that like oh man what an path to doing that like oh man what an amazing thing and I know there's a lot amazing thing and I know there's a lot amazing thing and I know there's a lot under the hood and behind the scenes under the hood and behind the scenes under the hood and behind the scenes that I'm sure is very difficult which that I'm sure is very difficult which that I'm sure is very difficult which we'll talk about but if you have not we'll talk about but if you have not we'll talk about but if you have not connected and maybe you've graduated on connected and maybe you've graduated on connected and maybe you've graduated on from the stunt work and so on but Damen from the stunt work and so on but Damen from the stunt work and so on but Damen Walters have you seen Damian Walters? Walters have you seen Damian Walters? Walters have you seen Damian Walters? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. I don't know if he's still in the >> Okay. I don't know if he's still in the >> Okay. I don't know if he's still in the game, but Damen Walters, he's a former game, but Damen Walters, he's a former game, but Damen Walters, he's a former highle British gymnast who then entered highle British gymnast who then entered highle British gymnast who then entered the world of stunt work and just has the the world of stunt work and just has the the world of stunt work and just has the most insane yearly highlight videos that most insane yearly highlight videos that most insane yearly highlight videos that he put out for a while. This is an older he put out for a while. This is an older he put out for a while. This is an older vintage. He's been doing it a long time. vintage. He's been doing it a long time. vintage. He's been doing it a long time. But in any case, I thought he could be But in any case, I thought he could be But in any case, I thought he could be >> incredibly fun to connect with at some >> incredibly fun to connect with at some >> incredibly fun to connect with at some point. point. point. >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> I've never really interacted with him, >> I've never really interacted with him, >> I've never really interacted with him, so I can't so much love and heart for so I can't so much love and heart for so I can't so much love and heart for the stunt community. That's really where the stunt community. That's really where the stunt community. That's really where the channel started. And the stunt the channel started. And the stunt the channel started. And the stunt coordinator that I work with today, his coordinator that I work with today, his coordinator that I work with today, his name is Steve Brown. name is Steve Brown. name is Steve Brown. >> And this is how crazy the world is, >> And this is how crazy the world is, >> And this is how crazy the world is, right? Back in right? Back in right? Back in 2016, so a few months after I sent this 2016, so a few months after I sent this 2016, so a few months after I sent this email, I went to a kebab shop in LA, sat email, I went to a kebab shop in LA, sat email, I went to a kebab shop in LA, sat down at the counter, and was just eating down at the counter, and was just eating down at the counter, and was just eating dinner by myself. And I I remember I was dinner by myself. And I I remember I was dinner by myself. And I I remember I was really critically thinking about this really critically thinking about this really critically thinking about this decision of going off on my own and decision of going off on my own and decision of going off on my own and applying this. And this guy comes in, applying this. And this guy comes in, applying this. And this guy comes in, sits next to me. We just start talking, sits next to me. We just start talking, sits next to me. We just start talking, have a nice conversation, go our have a nice conversation, go our have a nice conversation, go our separate ways. I go on to start my separate ways. I go on to start my separate ways. I go on to start my channel and do what I'm doing. He goes channel and do what I'm doing. He goes channel and do what I'm doing. He goes on to choreograph and do stunts and lead on to choreograph and do stunts and lead on to choreograph and do stunts and lead stunts for Logan, several Marvel stunts for Logan, several Marvel stunts for Logan, several Marvel projects, and most recently all of the projects, and most recently all of the projects, and most recently all of the Avatar films. Avatar films. Avatar films. >> That guy also does all of the stunt >> That guy also does all of the stunt >> That guy also does all of the stunt coordination on our channel. coordination on our channel. coordination on our channel. >> That's incredible. Um and it's amazing >> That's incredible. Um and it's amazing >> That's incredible. Um and it's amazing that when you meet people who are that when you meet people who are that when you meet people who are passionate like you know when you meet a passionate like you know when you meet a passionate like you know when you meet a flavor of a person before they have hit flavor of a person before they have hit flavor of a person before they have hit their their their >> their peak moment it's special to >> their peak moment it's special to >> their peak moment it's special to connect with them and and rise together. connect with them and and rise together. connect with them and and rise together. And that's what's been awesome about And that's what's been awesome about And that's what's been awesome about Steve is between his Avatar movies he'll Steve is between his Avatar movies he'll Steve is between his Avatar movies he'll come over and strap me to the side of a come over and strap me to the side of a come over and strap me to the side of a plane or throw me in the Houdini tank plane or throw me in the Houdini tank plane or throw me in the Houdini tank and and make sure that everything's okay and and make sure that everything's okay and and make sure that everything's okay because we have that we have that kebab because we have that we have that kebab because we have that we have that kebab friendship. friendship. friendship. Well, this speaks also to putting Well, this speaks also to putting Well, this speaks also to putting yourself in the center of the action, yourself in the center of the action, yourself in the center of the action, right? And I've had very famous investor right? And I've had very famous investor right? And I've had very famous investor named Bill Gurley on the show before I named Bill Gurley on the show before I named Bill Gurley on the show before I sat where you're sitting right now, sat where you're sitting right now, sat where you're sitting right now, legendary investor, and he talks about legendary investor, and he talks about legendary investor, and he talks about this a lot, which is putting yourself this a lot, which is putting yourself this a lot, which is putting yourself where the action is. Right. So, if you where the action is. Right. So, if you where the action is. Right. So, if you want to have those types of connections, want to have those types of connections, want to have those types of connections, it's less likely to happen in a small it's less likely to happen in a small it's less likely to happen in a small town in Montana than it is in Los town in Montana than it is in Los town in Montana than it is in Los Angeles. Angeles. Angeles. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. Similarly, depending on your >> Right. Similarly, depending on your >> Right. Similarly, depending on your industry, IRL still matters a lot, industry, IRL still matters a lot, industry, IRL still matters a lot, right? As much as we would like to think right? As much as we would like to think right? As much as we would like to think it doesn't, it's like if you want to be it doesn't, it's like if you want to be it doesn't, it's like if you want to be in certain games and tech and you want in certain games and tech and you want in certain games and tech and you want to have access to the talent, etc., to have access to the talent, etc., to have access to the talent, etc., still to this day in in a lot of still to this day in in a lot of still to this day in in a lot of instances, you have to be in San instances, you have to be in San instances, you have to be in San Francisco or somewhere near San Francisco or somewhere near San Francisco or somewhere near San Francisco. That's just where you have to Francisco. That's just where you have to Francisco. That's just where you have to be. be. be. >> And this is coming from the the virtual >> And this is coming from the the virtual >> And this is coming from the the virtual guy. guy. guy. >> It is. It is. And yet, if you look at >> It is. It is. And yet, if you look at >> It is. It is. And yet, if you look at what the virtual guy did, because I was what the virtual guy did, because I was what the virtual guy did, because I was trying and wanted to get involved in trying and wanted to get involved in trying and wanted to get involved in tech and then ultimately angel tech and then ultimately angel tech and then ultimately angel investing, where was I? I was in the Bay investing, where was I? I was in the Bay investing, where was I? I was in the Bay Area for 17 years. Area for 17 years. Area for 17 years. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> If I had not done that, I think my >> If I had not done that, I think my >> If I had not done that, I think my success would have had a 0% likelihood. success would have had a 0% likelihood. success would have had a 0% likelihood. >> I mean, literally 0%. If I look at how a >> I mean, literally 0%. If I look at how a >> I mean, literally 0%. If I look at how a lot of the ultimately best advising or lot of the ultimately best advising or lot of the ultimately best advising or investing relationships came together, investing relationships came together, investing relationships came together, they almost all started with Chance they almost all started with Chance they almost all started with Chance Encounters at the equivalent of a kebab Encounters at the equivalent of a kebab Encounters at the equivalent of a kebab shop, right? I go to a barbecue at shop, right? I go to a barbecue at shop, right? I go to a barbecue at someone's house and like accidentally someone's house and like accidentally someone's house and like accidentally bump into someone and spill their drink bump into someone and spill their drink bump into someone and spill their drink and start a conversation and then boom, and start a conversation and then boom, and start a conversation and then boom, that turns into like one of the most that turns into like one of the most that turns into like one of the most ends up defining 30% of my net worth, ends up defining 30% of my net worth, ends up defining 30% of my net worth, right? I right? I right? I sure there's luck involved, but you have sure there's luck involved, but you have sure there's luck involved, but you have to provide and I'm borrowing this term to provide and I'm borrowing this term to provide and I'm borrowing this term from someone else, but surface area for from someone else, but surface area for from someone else, but surface area for luck. luck. luck. >> So, what have we learned? Barbecue, >> So, what have we learned? Barbecue, >> So, what have we learned? Barbecue, kebab, spilling drinks, key to success, kebab, spilling drinks, key to success, kebab, spilling drinks, key to success, 30% of Tim's chapter one. Chapter one, 30% of Tim's chapter one. Chapter one, 30% of Tim's chapter one. Chapter one, bump into people. actually really could bump into people. actually really could bump into people. actually really could be. The other thing I wanted to mention be. The other thing I wanted to mention be. The other thing I wanted to mention is you talked about in a sense and this is you talked about in a sense and this is you talked about in a sense and this is not the most elegant way to put it, is not the most elegant way to put it, is not the most elegant way to put it, but like practicing poverty, right? That but like practicing poverty, right? That but like practicing poverty, right? That was one of your fears, right? It was was one of your fears, right? It was was one of your fears, right? It was like running out of money, right? So, like running out of money, right? So, like running out of money, right? So, you move into the apartment where you're you move into the apartment where you're you move into the apartment where you're sharing a studio with someone else or sharing a studio with someone else or sharing a studio with someone else or multiple people and you get rid of your multiple people and you get rid of your multiple people and you get rid of your memberships and so on and you prove to memberships and so on and you prove to memberships and so on and you prove to yourself yourself yourself number one, you can certainly survive. number one, you can certainly survive. number one, you can certainly survive. Number two, probably it's not that bad. Number two, probably it's not that bad. Number two, probably it's not that bad. Like you can figure it out. And sure, Like you can figure it out. And sure, Like you can figure it out. And sure, maybe if you're depending on the maybe if you're depending on the maybe if you're depending on the roommate, I mean, you might want to get roommate, I mean, you might want to get roommate, I mean, you might want to get rid of said roommate. But it reminded me rid of said roommate. But it reminded me rid of said roommate. But it reminded me of not to belabor this, but since the of not to belabor this, but since the of not to belabor this, but since the genesis of fear setting is stoic genesis of fear setting is stoic genesis of fear setting is stoic philosophy and the stoics, Senica the philosophy and the stoics, Senica the philosophy and the stoics, Senica the Younger talks about practicing in this Younger talks about practicing in this Younger talks about practicing in this way. very close friend of mine, Kevin way. very close friend of mine, Kevin way. very close friend of mine, Kevin Kelly, who was the founding editor of Kelly, who was the founding editor of Kelly, who was the founding editor of Wired magazine and fascinating person on Wired magazine and fascinating person on Wired magazine and fascinating person on all levels. Also has a big Amish beard all levels. Also has a big Amish beard all levels. Also has a big Amish beard and has spent time with the Amish to and has spent time with the Amish to and has spent time with the Amish to study how they accept or reject study how they accept or reject study how they accept or reject technology, etc., etc. really technology, etc., etc. really technology, etc., etc. really interesting guy, but he also, I don't interesting guy, but he also, I don't interesting guy, but he also, I don't know if he does it anymore, he's got to know if he does it anymore, he's got to know if he does it anymore, he's got to be mid70s now, but he used to routinely be mid70s now, but he used to routinely be mid70s now, but he used to routinely spend periods of time, I want to say spend periods of time, I want to say spend periods of time, I want to say every year, where he would just camp out every year, where he would just camp out every year, where he would just camp out in his living room in a sleeping bag and in his living room in a sleeping bag and in his living room in a sleeping bag and have like instant coffee and instant have like instant coffee and instant have like instant coffee and instant oatmeal and just do that for like a week oatmeal and just do that for like a week oatmeal and just do that for like a week >> and he's like, "Oh, yeah, great. Yeah, I >> and he's like, "Oh, yeah, great. Yeah, I >> and he's like, "Oh, yeah, great. Yeah, I don't really need that much." Yeah. And don't really need that much." Yeah. And don't really need that much." Yeah. And by doing that, it gives you by doing that, it gives you by doing that, it gives you courage, which I think is a practiced courage, which I think is a practiced courage, which I think is a practiced skill, right? Your subconscious has to skill, right? Your subconscious has to skill, right? Your subconscious has to believe that you can do something. It's believe that you can do something. It's believe that you can do something. It's you can't just read books and suddenly you can't just read books and suddenly you can't just read books and suddenly have confidence in all situations. And I have confidence in all situations. And I have confidence in all situations. And I mean, you're I think a walking example mean, you're I think a walking example mean, you're I think a walking example of of how you can do that. of of how you can do that. of of how you can do that. >> So, my question for you, Formula 1 team, >> So, my question for you, Formula 1 team, >> So, my question for you, Formula 1 team, all right, Formula 1 is expensive, all right, Formula 1 is expensive, all right, Formula 1 is expensive, right? It's like these cars in some right? It's like these cars in some right? It's like these cars in some cases are like what $250 million, right? cases are like what $250 million, right? cases are like what $250 million, right? When you start to add everything in When you start to add everything in When you start to add everything in pricey, yes, very high performance. But pricey, yes, very high performance. But pricey, yes, very high performance. But when you quit your job and you're like, when you quit your job and you're like, when you quit your job and you're like, I have 3 months. I have 3 months. I have 3 months. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> How did you assemble or enroll the help >> How did you assemble or enroll the help >> How did you assemble or enroll the help that you needed in the early days, the that you needed in the early days, the that you needed in the early days, the first like 3 to 6 months after quitting first like 3 to 6 months after quitting first like 3 to 6 months after quitting your job? Or did you just do everything your job? Or did you just do everything your job? Or did you just do everything yourself? I don't know. Right. So, what yourself? I don't know. Right. So, what yourself? I don't know. Right. So, what did it look like in the early days? did it look like in the early days? did it look like in the early days? Because once you get some momentum, sure Because once you get some momentum, sure Because once you get some momentum, sure you get some money coming in. Okay, you you get some money coming in. Okay, you you get some money coming in. Okay, you can start to add, you can start to can start to add, you can start to can start to add, you can start to upgrade, you can start to do various upgrade, you can start to do various upgrade, you can start to do various things, but in the beginning, you're things, but in the beginning, you're things, but in the beginning, you're very capital constrained, right? very capital constrained, right? very capital constrained, right? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What do you do? How did you assemble the >> What do you do? How did you assemble the >> What do you do? How did you assemble the help that you needed or enlist it? help that you needed or enlist it? help that you needed or enlist it? >> This is a strategy I employ for every >> This is a strategy I employ for every >> This is a strategy I employ for every challenge I take on now. And hindsight challenge I take on now. And hindsight challenge I take on now. And hindsight is 2020. And with that 2020 hindsight, I is 2020. And with that 2020 hindsight, I is 2020. And with that 2020 hindsight, I think it comes down to having three think it comes down to having three think it comes down to having three people on your Formula 1 team. And it people on your Formula 1 team. And it people on your Formula 1 team. And it doesn't need to be fancy. It's really doesn't need to be fancy. It's really doesn't need to be fancy. It's really a coach, a mentor, and a cheerleader. a coach, a mentor, and a cheerleader. a coach, a mentor, and a cheerleader. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In a specific episode of Challenge >> In a specific episode of Challenge >> In a specific episode of Challenge Accepted, the coach is the most Accepted, the coach is the most Accepted, the coach is the most important person that I want to find important person that I want to find important person that I want to find before we pursue an episode, like before we pursue an episode, like before we pursue an episode, like >> in a recent episode, I attempted to get >> in a recent episode, I attempted to get >> in a recent episode, I attempted to get a black belt in taekwond do in only 90 a black belt in taekwond do in only 90 a black belt in taekwond do in only 90 days. In martial arts, that's a somewhat days. In martial arts, that's a somewhat days. In martial arts, that's a somewhat controversial thing to even attempt to controversial thing to even attempt to controversial thing to even attempt to do. Mhm. do. Mhm. do. Mhm. >> And so I knew I could only do it with >> And so I knew I could only do it with >> And so I knew I could only do it with the blessing of a really respected the blessing of a really respected the blessing of a really respected master. So objective number one was to master. So objective number one was to master. So objective number one was to find the best master and coach in the find the best master and coach in the find the best master and coach in the world. And I think it's important to to world. And I think it's important to to world. And I think it's important to to find someone and again I'll give an find someone and again I'll give an find someone and again I'll give an example for what I did in that specific example for what I did in that specific example for what I did in that specific situation. But that's number one for me situation. But that's number one for me situation. But that's number one for me because this is the person I'm going to because this is the person I'm going to because this is the person I'm going to be spending all of this time with and be spending all of this time with and be spending all of this time with and learning from them. The second person is learning from them. The second person is learning from them. The second person is a mentor who is different from the a mentor who is different from the a mentor who is different from the coach. This is a person who has most coach. This is a person who has most coach. This is a person who has most recently recently recently done the thing you're trying to do. So done the thing you're trying to do. So done the thing you're trying to do. So for me, that's other students in the for me, that's other students in the for me, that's other students in the black ballot class. They're my mentors. black ballot class. They're my mentors. black ballot class. They're my mentors. They have gone through this process. They have gone through this process. They have gone through this process. They know what it's feels like to break They know what it's feels like to break They know what it's feels like to break a brick with their hands and get through a brick with their hands and get through a brick with their hands and get through that. Mhm. that. Mhm. that. Mhm. >> And it's important that it's different >> And it's important that it's different >> And it's important that it's different from the coach because coaching is a from the coach because coaching is a from the coach because coaching is a different skill set and art form from different skill set and art form from different skill set and art form from mentoring. mentoring. mentoring. >> Also, it's harder for the coach to put >> Also, it's harder for the coach to put >> Also, it's harder for the coach to put themselves in your shoes because so much themselves in your shoes because so much themselves in your shoes because so much of what they do is second nature and of what they do is second nature and of what they do is second nature and they're probably decades removed from they're probably decades removed from they're probably decades removed from the experience you're about to have. the experience you're about to have. the experience you're about to have. >> You want someone who has the experience >> You want someone who has the experience >> You want someone who has the experience of leading somebody to that finish line of leading somebody to that finish line of leading somebody to that finish line of greatness. And you also want someone of greatness. And you also want someone of greatness. And you also want someone who knows what it feels like to be the who knows what it feels like to be the who knows what it feels like to be the man in the arena. Mhm. man in the arena. Mhm. man in the arena. Mhm. >> And then the third person is a >> And then the third person is a >> And then the third person is a cheerleader, which is someone who is cheerleader, which is someone who is cheerleader, which is someone who is completely detached from the outcome. So completely detached from the outcome. So completely detached from the outcome. So for me, that's my best friend Olivia. It for me, that's my best friend Olivia. It for me, that's my best friend Olivia. It could be a sibling, friend, family could be a sibling, friend, family could be a sibling, friend, family member, someone who is going to root for member, someone who is going to root for member, someone who is going to root for you and love you no matter whether you you and love you no matter whether you you and love you no matter whether you succeed or fail. So that's how I succeed or fail. So that's how I succeed or fail. So that's how I approach every single challenge on the approach every single challenge on the approach every single challenge on the channel. Metawise, at the beginning of channel. Metawise, at the beginning of channel. Metawise, at the beginning of the channel, what was that for me? It the channel, what was that for me? It the channel, what was that for me? It was the mentor figure or figures for me was the mentor figure or figures for me was the mentor figure or figures for me were other people who had recently were other people who had recently were other people who had recently started channels and were just a few started channels and were just a few started channels and were just a few steps ahead of me in the process. Maybe steps ahead of me in the process. Maybe steps ahead of me in the process. Maybe they had 50,000 subscribers. Maybe they they had 50,000 subscribers. Maybe they they had 50,000 subscribers. Maybe they had 100,000 subscribers. They were had 100,000 subscribers. They were had 100,000 subscribers. They were people I met at little meetups at, rest people I met at little meetups at, rest people I met at little meetups at, rest in peace, the YouTube space, which in peace, the YouTube space, which in peace, the YouTube space, which doesn't exist anymore. But those peer doesn't exist anymore. But those peer doesn't exist anymore. But those peer groups were really special and important groups were really special and important groups were really special and important to me to keep me motivated and to just to me to keep me motivated and to just to me to keep me motivated and to just reach out to people even today. Reaching reach out to people even today. Reaching reach out to people even today. Reaching out to other creators, what do you guys out to other creators, what do you guys out to other creators, what do you guys think of this thumbnail? What do you think of this thumbnail? What do you think of this thumbnail? What do you think of these titles? Having people who think of these titles? Having people who think of these titles? Having people who are just a couple steps ahead of you or are just a couple steps ahead of you or are just a couple steps ahead of you or on similar playing fields can be so so on similar playing fields can be so so on similar playing fields can be so so helpful in that process. helpful in that process. helpful in that process. The cheerleader for me at that time was The cheerleader for me at that time was The cheerleader for me at that time was was my sister Maline who was one of the was my sister Maline who was one of the was my sister Maline who was one of the only people I told I was going to quit only people I told I was going to quit only people I told I was going to quit my job and and fully believed in me. And my job and and fully believed in me. And my job and and fully believed in me. And then the coach figure for me when I was then the coach figure for me when I was then the coach figure for me when I was starting from ground zero was starting from ground zero was starting from ground zero was cold emailing cold emailing cold emailing people I respected. Now, that's not the people I respected. Now, that's not the people I respected. Now, that's not the same as having a coach who's with you same as having a coach who's with you same as having a coach who's with you every day in the way mastery is training every day in the way mastery is training every day in the way mastery is training taekwond do with me every day. But I saw taekwond do with me every day. But I saw taekwond do with me every day. But I saw those as coaching opportunities because those as coaching opportunities because those as coaching opportunities because they were people light years ahead who they were people light years ahead who they were people light years ahead who had the teaching component, I should had the teaching component, I should had the teaching component, I should say, of being able to advise even in say, of being able to advise even in say, of being able to advise even in small doses. small doses. small doses. >> What did those emails look like? >> What did those emails look like? >> What did those emails look like? >> Okay, I love a great email. You >> Okay, I love a great email. You >> Okay, I love a great email. You mentioned that you have an amazing cold mentioned that you have an amazing cold mentioned that you have an amazing cold emailer. I I need to to see their art emailer. I I need to to see their art emailer. I I need to to see their art and their work because I I love and their work because I I love and their work because I I love comparing notes on emails. comparing notes on emails. comparing notes on emails. I personally believe that a really I personally believe that a really I personally believe that a really well-written email can open any door. well-written email can open any door. well-written email can open any door. >> I agree. By the way, assuming the person >> I agree. By the way, assuming the person >> I agree. By the way, assuming the person sees it, right, there's there's some sees it, right, there's there's some sees it, right, there's there's some friction, but friction, but friction, but >> true, >> true, >> true, >> but people underestimate >> but people underestimate >> but people underestimate what they can do. what they can do. what they can do. >> I agree. And there's there's something >> I agree. And there's there's something >> I agree. And there's there's something about an email that's different from an about an email that's different from an about an email that's different from an Instagram DM or I don't know. I love an Instagram DM or I don't know. I love an Instagram DM or I don't know. I love an email. Well, I love a Google calendar. email. Well, I love a Google calendar. email. Well, I love a Google calendar. This is where we're talking about true This is where we're talking about true This is where we're talking about true passions to emails. passions to emails. passions to emails. So, when at the beginning of my channel, So, when at the beginning of my channel, So, when at the beginning of my channel, when we didn't have millions of when we didn't have millions of when we didn't have millions of subscribers, subscribers, subscribers, >> and we wanted to collaborate with >> and we wanted to collaborate with >> and we wanted to collaborate with institutions like the FBI, the Secret institutions like the FBI, the Secret institutions like the FBI, the Secret Service, and ultimately, we became some Service, and ultimately, we became some Service, and ultimately, we became some of the first YouTube channels to ever do of the first YouTube channels to ever do of the first YouTube channels to ever do that. came from not a producer, not a that. came from not a producer, not a that. came from not a producer, not a friend of a friend sending email, but me friend of a friend sending email, but me friend of a friend sending email, but me sending a cold email. An example of that sending a cold email. An example of that sending a cold email. An example of that is I wanted to do a video with the FBI. is I wanted to do a video with the FBI. is I wanted to do a video with the FBI. So, I went on FBI.gov. I called the So, I went on FBI.gov. I called the So, I went on FBI.gov. I called the 1-800 number of the FBI, which by the 1-800 number of the FBI, which by the 1-800 number of the FBI, which by the way is for like crime tips, which I way is for like crime tips, which I way is for like crime tips, which I didn't realize. didn't realize. didn't realize. And I pitched them this idea over the And I pitched them this idea over the And I pitched them this idea over the phone and they're like, "So, I'm here to phone and they're like, "So, I'm here to phone and they're like, "So, I'm here to receive crime tips, but I can connect receive crime tips, but I can connect receive crime tips, but I can connect you to someone else." And I wasn't you to someone else." And I wasn't you to someone else." And I wasn't anticipating that. I thought it would anticipating that. I thought it would anticipating that. I thought it would kind of be a dead end. kind of be a dead end. kind of be a dead end. >> So, I just want to pause here for the >> So, I just want to pause here for the >> So, I just want to pause here for the specifics. specifics. specifics. >> Ring ring. Hello. FBI 800 number. What >> Ring ring. Hello. FBI 800 number. What >> Ring ring. Hello. FBI 800 number. What are you What are you saying? are you What are you saying? are you What are you saying? >> Hi, my name is Michelle K. I know this >> Hi, my name is Michelle K. I know this >> Hi, my name is Michelle K. I know this might come off as a little strange or might come off as a little strange or might come off as a little strange or unexpected, but I was trying to contact unexpected, but I was trying to contact unexpected, but I was trying to contact someone in your department who might someone in your department who might someone in your department who might work with film and television. I'm a work with film and television. I'm a work with film and television. I'm a content creator online. We have several content creator online. We have several content creator online. We have several hundred thousand subscribers and I was hundred thousand subscribers and I was hundred thousand subscribers and I was hoping to talk about a collaboration. hoping to talk about a collaboration. hoping to talk about a collaboration. >> All right, great. >> All right, great. >> All right, great. >> And usually they're like, YouTube, what? >> And usually they're like, YouTube, what? >> And usually they're like, YouTube, what? But this person was was generous enough But this person was was generous enough But this person was was generous enough to connect me to someone else and we to connect me to someone else and we to connect me to someone else and we kind of got kicked down a few a few kind of got kicked down a few a few kind of got kicked down a few a few different routes. But we ended up different routes. But we ended up different routes. But we ended up connecting with someone called the connecting with someone called the connecting with someone called the Hollywood guy. This is a job at the FBI. Hollywood guy. This is a job at the FBI. Hollywood guy. This is a job at the FBI. He's just like, "How did I get stuck in He's just like, "How did I get stuck in He's just like, "How did I get stuck in this department?" Every email that comes this department?" Every email that comes this department?" Every email that comes over the transom about some kind of film over the transom about some kind of film over the transom about some kind of film television thing. television thing. television thing. >> It's the Hollywood guy. And now this is >> It's the Hollywood guy. And now this is >> It's the Hollywood guy. And now this is the person within the Federal Bureau of the person within the Federal Bureau of the person within the Federal Bureau of Investigation Investigation Investigation who is assigned to who is assigned to who is assigned to documentaries or even scripted shows to documentaries or even scripted shows to documentaries or even scripted shows to ensure that the seal of the FBI is ensure that the seal of the FBI is ensure that the seal of the FBI is accurately and and not displayed not accurately and and not displayed not accurately and and not displayed not misrepresented or or shown in a misrepresented or or shown in a misrepresented or or shown in a derogatory manner. derogatory manner. derogatory manner. >> This is the guy who did the McDonald's >> This is the guy who did the McDonald's >> This is the guy who did the McDonald's Monopoly HBO documentary. He He was the Monopoly HBO documentary. He He was the Monopoly HBO documentary. He He was the FBI's representative for that amazing FBI's representative for that amazing FBI's representative for that amazing docky series. docky series. docky series. >> I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with this. >> I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with this. >> I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with this. Monopoly, like the game Monopoly. Monopoly, like the game Monopoly. Monopoly, like the game Monopoly. >> Oh my god, you're not familiar. What is >> Oh my god, you're not familiar. What is >> Oh my god, you're not familiar. What is this called? I think Oh, the this called? I think Oh, the this called? I think Oh, the documentary. It's called McMillions. documentary. It's called McMillions. documentary. It's called McMillions. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Have you heard of this doc? >> Have you heard of this doc? >> Have you heard of this doc? >> I mean, what is it about Happy Meals or >> I mean, what is it about Happy Meals or >> I mean, what is it about Happy Meals or something? something? something? >> Riveting documentary series. >> Riveting documentary series. >> Riveting documentary series. >> McMillions. Okay. >> McMillions. Okay. >> McMillions. Okay. >> Oh, Tim, you're going to love it. >> Oh, Tim, you're going to love it. >> Oh, Tim, you're going to love it. >> So, there's probably some fraud involved >> So, there's probably some fraud involved >> So, there's probably some fraud involved and the FBI gets involved. Do you and the FBI gets involved. Do you and the FBI gets involved. Do you remember in the '9s, 2000s, there was remember in the '9s, 2000s, there was remember in the '9s, 2000s, there was the Monopoly game at McDonald's? Sure. the Monopoly game at McDonald's? Sure. the Monopoly game at McDonald's? Sure. Where you could peel off the sticker and Where you could peel off the sticker and Where you could peel off the sticker and see if you won a vacation or a bunch of see if you won a vacation or a bunch of see if you won a vacation or a bunch of money. Turns out all of the winners of money. Turns out all of the winners of money. Turns out all of the winners of that that that >> were all related in some way. >> were all related in some way. >> were all related in some way. >> Or they figured out how to game the >> Or they figured out how to game the >> Or they figured out how to game the system. They're all family relatives or system. They're all family relatives or system. They're all family relatives or friends of friends or people within this friends of friends or people within this friends of friends or people within this group of people that they hired group of people that they hired group of people that they hired >> to win. >> to win. >> to win. >> I don't want to reveal how they did it >> I don't want to reveal how they did it >> I don't want to reveal how they did it because it's riveting. The documentary because it's riveting. The documentary because it's riveting. The documentary tells the story from the perspective of tells the story from the perspective of tells the story from the perspective of the FBI agents who uncovered it, the FBI agents who uncovered it, the FBI agents who uncovered it, >> right? So, Hollywood guy gets an email. >> right? So, Hollywood guy gets an email. >> right? So, Hollywood guy gets an email. Hey, Hey, Hey, >> so this guy just did McMillions, one of >> so this guy just did McMillions, one of >> so this guy just did McMillions, one of the, you know, an incredible docu series the, you know, an incredible docu series the, you know, an incredible docu series for HBO. for HBO. for HBO. >> Gets an email from me. YouTuber >> Gets an email from me. YouTuber >> Gets an email from me. YouTuber and effectively what happened was he was and effectively what happened was he was and effectively what happened was he was like, "Well, I'm retiring in a couple like, "Well, I'm retiring in a couple like, "Well, I'm retiring in a couple months. Let's try it out." months. Let's try it out." months. Let's try it out." >> It's so wild how these things work out >> It's so wild how these things work out >> It's so wild how these things work out sometimes. sometimes. sometimes. >> It's amazing. >> It's amazing. >> It's amazing. >> Now, so that again, this like surface >> Now, so that again, this like surface >> Now, so that again, this like surface area for luck, right? Like you have to area for luck, right? Like you have to area for luck, right? Like you have to have some pinballs in the pinball have some pinballs in the pinball have some pinballs in the pinball machine machine machine >> for the possibility of something like >> for the possibility of something like >> for the possibility of something like that happening. that happening. that happening. Is there anything else in your email or Is there anything else in your email or Is there anything else in your email or communication with the Hollywood guy communication with the Hollywood guy communication with the Hollywood guy that you think increased the likelihood that you think increased the likelihood that you think increased the likelihood of him saying yes? of him saying yes? of him saying yes? >> I do. I think a great email and a cold >> I do. I think a great email and a cold >> I do. I think a great email and a cold email specifically has to have some key email specifically has to have some key email specifically has to have some key components. The first is the subject components. The first is the subject components. The first is the subject line needs to show your value to the line needs to show your value to the line needs to show your value to the reader. For me right now, it would look reader. For me right now, it would look reader. For me right now, it would look like something and I'll be totally like something and I'll be totally like something and I'll be totally honest. Collaboration with Michelle honest. Collaboration with Michelle honest. Collaboration with Michelle Caren this many followers. In the Caren this many followers. In the Caren this many followers. In the beginning, that was a small number for beginning, that was a small number for beginning, that was a small number for me, but I still put it in the subject me, but I still put it in the subject me, but I still put it in the subject line. It could be a number of views. It line. It could be a number of views. It line. It could be a number of views. It could be collaborated with X, Y, and Z could be collaborated with X, Y, and Z could be collaborated with X, Y, and Z institutions. institutions. institutions. It just needs to be enough for the It just needs to be enough for the It just needs to be enough for the reader to see some value in what you're reader to see some value in what you're reader to see some value in what you're doing. Then the body of the email is doing. Then the body of the email is doing. Then the body of the email is three paragraphs, very short paragraphs. three paragraphs, very short paragraphs. three paragraphs, very short paragraphs. In fact, three blocks of two sentences In fact, three blocks of two sentences In fact, three blocks of two sentences each. I wouldn't even call it a each. I wouldn't even call it a each. I wouldn't even call it a paragraph. The first paragraph is paragraph. The first paragraph is paragraph. The first paragraph is One sentence about who you are and your One sentence about who you are and your One sentence about who you are and your legitimacy has to be encompassed in one legitimacy has to be encompassed in one legitimacy has to be encompassed in one sentence. Hi, my name is Michelle K. I'm sentence. Hi, my name is Michelle K. I'm sentence. Hi, my name is Michelle K. I'm a content creator with this many a content creator with this many a content creator with this many followers followers followers and I've done this, this, and this. It's and I've done this, this, and this. It's and I've done this, this, and this. It's very succinctly proving your value. very succinctly proving your value. very succinctly proving your value. Second sentence of that first paragraph, Second sentence of that first paragraph, Second sentence of that first paragraph, what are you asking for or offering to what are you asking for or offering to what are you asking for or offering to the other person? And ideally, you're the other person? And ideally, you're the other person? And ideally, you're doing both. You're you're offering doing both. You're you're offering doing both. You're you're offering something. Second sentence of that email something. Second sentence of that email something. Second sentence of that email to the FBI would be, "I'm reaching out to the FBI would be, "I'm reaching out to the FBI would be, "I'm reaching out to inquire about an opportunity to inquire about an opportunity to inquire about an opportunity to film a collaboration to film a collaboration to film a collaboration for my channels." for my channels." for my channels." >> What you're offering there is access to >> What you're offering there is access to >> What you're offering there is access to our audience our audience our audience in the eyes of many of the people we in the eyes of many of the people we in the eyes of many of the people we collaborate with. It's a marketing collaborate with. It's a marketing collaborate with. It's a marketing opportunity potentially, opportunity potentially, opportunity potentially, >> recruiting opportunity. >> recruiting opportunity. >> recruiting opportunity. >> Yeah, something like that. Paragraph two >> Yeah, something like that. Paragraph two >> Yeah, something like that. Paragraph two is two sentences or less of what you is two sentences or less of what you is two sentences or less of what you want to do. This would be the details of want to do. This would be the details of want to do. This would be the details of we're hoping to do a shoot following we're hoping to do a shoot following we're hoping to do a shoot following just a few days of the academy embedding just a few days of the academy embedding just a few days of the academy embedding in existing activities ultimately in existing activities ultimately in existing activities ultimately leading up to a final scenario as leading up to a final scenario as leading up to a final scenario as follows academy protocol. So that second follows academy protocol. So that second follows academy protocol. So that second paragraph is about a window into the paragraph is about a window into the paragraph is about a window into the vision you hope to come to together and vision you hope to come to together and vision you hope to come to together and a peak at some of the resources you a peak at some of the resources you a peak at some of the resources you might be asking for. And ideally, you do might be asking for. And ideally, you do might be asking for. And ideally, you do it in such a way that you show you've it in such a way that you show you've it in such a way that you show you've done your homework. You know, I'm not done your homework. You know, I'm not done your homework. You know, I'm not just cold emailing the FBI hoping to do just cold emailing the FBI hoping to do just cold emailing the FBI hoping to do a video with them. I know very clearly a video with them. I know very clearly a video with them. I know very clearly I've watched everything I can online I've watched everything I can online I've watched everything I can online about what does the academy take to do? about what does the academy take to do? about what does the academy take to do? What are the activities? What are the What are the activities? What are the What are the activities? What are the ones that are best for camera? So, ones that are best for camera? So, ones that are best for camera? So, you're showing your you're showing your you're showing your it's an opportunity to flatter them and it's an opportunity to flatter them and it's an opportunity to flatter them and to to put them at ease. We speak the to to put them at ease. We speak the to to put them at ease. We speak the same language. So, that there's that. same language. So, that there's that. same language. So, that there's that. Paragraph three is the call to action. Paragraph three is the call to action. Paragraph three is the call to action. Two sentences or less. Two sentences or less. Two sentences or less. Would love to hop on the phone. Let me Would love to hop on the phone. Let me Would love to hop on the phone. Let me know a good time. Here's my phone know a good time. Here's my phone know a good time. Here's my phone number. Text me anytime. I think that's number. Text me anytime. I think that's number. Text me anytime. I think that's honestly potentially the most important honestly potentially the most important honestly potentially the most important part. Here's my phone number. Text me part. Here's my phone number. Text me part. Here's my phone number. Text me anytime. This is an anti- Tim Ferrris anytime. This is an anti- Tim Ferrris anytime. This is an anti- Tim Ferrris tactic potentially. tactic potentially. tactic potentially. >> Not when I'm sending cold emails to to >> Not when I'm sending cold emails to to >> Not when I'm sending cold emails to to to people who are very busy that I want to people who are very busy that I want to people who are very busy that I want to connect with. And what that does is to connect with. And what that does is to connect with. And what that does is say, "I'm available. I don't know you, say, "I'm available. I don't know you, say, "I'm available. I don't know you, but here's my phone number." It but here's my phone number." It but here's my phone number." It exhibits, "I'm trusting you." exhibits, "I'm trusting you." exhibits, "I'm trusting you." >> And it says, "You don't have to respond >> And it says, "You don't have to respond >> And it says, "You don't have to respond with a crazy detailed formal email back with a crazy detailed formal email back with a crazy detailed formal email back to me. Hit me up anytime. We can talk on to me. Hit me up anytime. We can talk on to me. Hit me up anytime. We can talk on the phone." It removes the barrier to the phone." It removes the barrier to the phone." It removes the barrier to entry for them to have to come back to entry for them to have to come back to entry for them to have to come back to you. you. you. >> And then have a nice email signature. >> And then have a nice email signature. >> And then have a nice email signature. You know You know You know >> what is a nice email signature? >> what is a nice email signature? >> what is a nice email signature? >> Just uh in a sans Sarah font. Maybe add >> Just uh in a sans Sarah font. Maybe add >> Just uh in a sans Sarah font. Maybe add a little color. a little color. a little color. >> No comic sands. I'm not kidding. >> No comic sands. I'm not kidding. >> No comic sands. I'm not kidding. >> No comic sands. No times in your room. >> No comic sands. No times in your room. >> No comic sands. No times in your room. Tim, it's not 2007 anymore. Tim, it's not 2007 anymore. Tim, it's not 2007 anymore. >> No, I saw this photograph. I have a lot >> No, I saw this photograph. I have a lot >> No, I saw this photograph. I have a lot of friends who work at Google and there of friends who work at Google and there of friends who work at Google and there was this big like printed out sign to to was this big like printed out sign to to was this big like printed out sign to to employees talking about like snacks or employees talking about like snacks or employees talking about like snacks or things and refrigerators and it was in things and refrigerators and it was in things and refrigerators and it was in comic sands and then someone else took a comic sands and then someone else took a comic sands and then someone else took a marker and wrote on it. They're like, marker and wrote on it. They're like, marker and wrote on it. They're like, "This is Google and it is a serious "This is Google and it is a serious "This is Google and it is a serious place of work. Please do not use comic place of work. Please do not use comic place of work. Please do not use comic sands. I just thought it was pretty sands. I just thought it was pretty sands. I just thought it was pretty funny because there are a lot of people funny because there are a lot of people funny because there are a lot of people with high IQ at Google who may not have with high IQ at Google who may not have with high IQ at Google who may not have the social graces, but I have to agree the social graces, but I have to agree the social graces, but I have to agree on comic sands. So, let me say a few on comic sands. So, let me say a few on comic sands. So, let me say a few things about this email. things about this email. things about this email. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> I in some ways owe my entire career as >> I in some ways owe my entire career as >> I in some ways owe my entire career as it is to cold emails. And what you learn it is to cold emails. And what you learn it is to cold emails. And what you learn in crafting in crafting in crafting cold emails is directly translatable to cold emails is directly translatable to cold emails is directly translatable to in person and talking to people. In a in person and talking to people. In a in person and talking to people. In a way, it's the same thing. There are some way, it's the same thing. There are some way, it's the same thing. There are some differences, but I want to highlight a differences, but I want to highlight a differences, but I want to highlight a couple of things that you just said. couple of things that you just said. couple of things that you just said. Number one, including your cell phone. Number one, including your cell phone. Number one, including your cell phone. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I am shocked by how many emails I get >> I am shocked by how many emails I get >> I am shocked by how many emails I get that are actually somewhat interesting. that are actually somewhat interesting. that are actually somewhat interesting. they get surfaced by my team because I they get surfaced by my team because I they get surfaced by my team because I have people who triage my email have people who triage my email have people who triage my email that do not have a phone number and I'm that do not have a phone number and I'm that do not have a phone number and I'm like I don't have time to have a bunch like I don't have time to have a bunch like I don't have time to have a bunch of my team does not have time to do a of my team does not have time to do a of my team does not have time to do a bunch of back and forth to figure out a bunch of back and forth to figure out a bunch of back and forth to figure out a time to talk even though you didn't even time to talk even though you didn't even time to talk even though you didn't even offer a time to talk and blah blah blah offer a time to talk and blah blah blah offer a time to talk and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah archive like I just don't have time for archive like I just don't have time for archive like I just don't have time for it like this seems interesting but it's it like this seems interesting but it's it like this seems interesting but it's not definitively interesting if you gave not definitively interesting if you gave not definitively interesting if you gave a cell phone I would figure out a way to a cell phone I would figure out a way to a cell phone I would figure out a way to maybe call you and for five minutes. I'd maybe call you and for five minutes. I'd maybe call you and for five minutes. I'd be like, I have three quick questions. be like, I have three quick questions. be like, I have three quick questions. Interesting. But like this is it, five Interesting. But like this is it, five Interesting. But like this is it, five minutes. minutes. minutes. >> And in a friendly way, obviously, it's >> And in a friendly way, obviously, it's >> And in a friendly way, obviously, it's like include if it's important to you, like include if it's important to you, like include if it's important to you, include your cell phone. include your cell phone. include your cell phone. >> And I think it's important to include >> And I think it's important to include >> And I think it's important to include it. This is just me personally as the it. This is just me personally as the it. This is just me personally as the final sentence of the email, not tucked final sentence of the email, not tucked final sentence of the email, not tucked under your name. No, under your name. No, under your name. No, >> you want to truly invite them. >> you want to truly invite them. >> you want to truly invite them. >> Make it explicit. 100% agreed. >> Make it explicit. 100% agreed. >> Make it explicit. 100% agreed. >> So, I want to just mention a couple of >> So, I want to just mention a couple of >> So, I want to just mention a couple of direct parallels between what you just direct parallels between what you just direct parallels between what you just mentioned is this formula. And if you're mentioned is this formula. And if you're mentioned is this formula. And if you're open to it, maybe we could share like a open to it, maybe we could share like a open to it, maybe we could share like a few examples or a template of few examples or a template of few examples or a template of >> a downloadable PDF on Tim. Blog. >> a downloadable PDF on Tim. Blog. >> a downloadable PDF on Tim. Blog. >> Well, exactly. PDF for a blog post or >> Well, exactly. PDF for a blog post or >> Well, exactly. PDF for a blog post or something or like show notes just so something or like show notes just so something or like show notes just so people can actually see it. people can actually see it. people can actually see it. >> Yes, of course. >> Yes, of course. >> Yes, of course. >> And I will just draw a few parallels. >> And I will just draw a few parallels. >> And I will just draw a few parallels. So, number one, you need credibility up So, number one, you need credibility up So, number one, you need credibility up front. And one way to think about this, front. And one way to think about this, front. And one way to think about this, and I I always if I'm thinking about and I I always if I'm thinking about and I I always if I'm thinking about reaching out to someone who's above my reaching out to someone who's above my reaching out to someone who's above my pay grade, and trust me, there's I mean pay grade, and trust me, there's I mean pay grade, and trust me, there's I mean there are plenty of people who are way there are plenty of people who are way there are plenty of people who are way above my pay grade. The first thing in above my pay grade. The first thing in above my pay grade. The first thing in the subject line, I'll give a tip that I the subject line, I'll give a tip that I the subject line, I'll give a tip that I sometimes use. So, let's just say that sometimes use. So, let's just say that sometimes use. So, let's just say that who knows. All right, somebody knows, who knows. All right, somebody knows, who knows. All right, somebody knows, you know, Mr. Beast or Tom Cruz or you know, Mr. Beast or Tom Cruz or you know, Mr. Beast or Tom Cruz or whoever it might be. Now, practically whoever it might be. Now, practically whoever it might be. Now, practically speaking, everything's going to have to speaking, everything's going to have to speaking, everything's going to have to get routed through someone else for Tom get routed through someone else for Tom get routed through someone else for Tom Cruz. And if you do get their personal Cruz. And if you do get their personal Cruz. And if you do get their personal information, they're going to be very information, they're going to be very information, they're going to be very annoyed. Um, so, but where I'll start annoyed. Um, so, but where I'll start annoyed. Um, so, but where I'll start with the subject line is one of two with the subject line is one of two with the subject line is one of two places or both. So you mentioned like places or both. So you mentioned like places or both. So you mentioned like the credibility indicator in the the credibility indicator in the the credibility indicator in the subject, right? I'll use that. But if we subject, right? I'll use that. But if we subject, right? I'll use that. But if we actually have someone in common who actually have someone in common who actually have someone in common who actually recommended I connect, actually recommended I connect, actually recommended I connect, >> but they haven't made the intro, I will >> but they haven't made the intro, I will >> but they haven't made the intro, I will say for instance, say for instance, say for instance, it would be again just to use the Tom it would be again just to use the Tom it would be again just to use the Tom Cruz example, who I think would make an Cruz example, who I think would make an Cruz example, who I think would make an amazing interview, but like for Tom Cruz amazing interview, but like for Tom Cruz amazing interview, but like for Tom Cruz via via via mutual connection, mutual connection, mutual connection, >> oo, >> oo, >> oo, >> Tim Ferrris, whatever the credibility >> Tim Ferrris, whatever the credibility >> Tim Ferrris, whatever the credibility indicator is, right? So I will mention indicator is, right? So I will mention indicator is, right? So I will mention the mutual connection first because the mutual connection first because the mutual connection first because subject lines often get truncated on subject lines often get truncated on subject lines often get truncated on mobile or elsewhere. mobile or elsewhere. mobile or elsewhere. >> So if they just see for Tom Cruz from >> So if they just see for Tom Cruz from >> So if they just see for Tom Cruz from Tim Ferris is going to be like who the Tim Ferris is going to be like who the Tim Ferris is going to be like who the [ __ ] is Tim Ferrris archive. [ __ ] is Tim Ferrris archive. [ __ ] is Tim Ferrris archive. >> They see the name they know >> They see the name they know >> They see the name they know >> if it's for Tom or for Tom Cruz via >> if it's for Tom or for Tom Cruz via >> if it's for Tom or for Tom Cruz via person who actually made the suggestion person who actually made the suggestion person who actually made the suggestion and then my name you have a huge and then my name you have a huge and then my name you have a huge advantage because chances are it's going advantage because chances are it's going advantage because chances are it's going to get truncated. I love the via I've to get truncated. I love the via I've to get truncated. I love the via I've done referral from X and then my stuff done referral from X and then my stuff done referral from X and then my stuff after, but I like the via because it after, but I like the via because it after, but I like the via because it doesn't necessarily mean that they're doesn't necessarily mean that they're doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to have to vet and call that going to have to vet and call that going to have to vet and call that person up, you know. person up, you know. person up, you know. >> Yeah, exactly. Well, that brings up >> Yeah, exactly. Well, that brings up >> Yeah, exactly. Well, that brings up another point, which is if you're going another point, which is if you're going another point, which is if you're going to mention mutual connections and I'm to mention mutual connections and I'm to mention mutual connections and I'm shocked by how many people violate this. shocked by how many people violate this. shocked by how many people violate this. You better actually know, assume the You better actually know, assume the You better actually know, assume the person you're emailing is going to person you're emailing is going to person you're emailing is going to immediately text those people immediately text those people immediately text those people >> and they will. >> and they will. >> and they will. >> And I certainly will. And I would say >> And I certainly will. And I would say >> And I certainly will. And I would say nine times out of 10 that person's like nine times out of 10 that person's like nine times out of 10 that person's like either I have no idea who that person is either I have no idea who that person is either I have no idea who that person is or I met that person once and we shook or I met that person once and we shook or I met that person once and we shook hands at a party. I don't know them at hands at a party. I don't know them at hands at a party. I don't know them at all. And I'm like you're gone. You just all. And I'm like you're gone. You just all. And I'm like you're gone. You just misrepresented implicitly or explicitly. misrepresented implicitly or explicitly. misrepresented implicitly or explicitly. >> But when I'm writing an email, right, >> But when I'm writing an email, right, >> But when I'm writing an email, right, I'll have that subject line. If there is I'll have that subject line. If there is I'll have that subject line. If there is a via I'll include that name and with a via I'll include that name and with a via I'll include that name and with and the subject line I'll keep as short and the subject line I'll keep as short and the subject line I'll keep as short as possible. Then the always default to as possible. Then the always default to as possible. Then the always default to Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. something like Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. something like Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. something like something that I really appreciate about something that I really appreciate about something that I really appreciate about you because it doesn't cost anything is you because it doesn't cost anything is you because it doesn't cost anything is you are very default polite and even you are very default polite and even you are very default polite and even though it makes me feel like an old though it makes me feel like an old though it makes me feel like an old bastard, you said you were like yes sir bastard, you said you were like yes sir bastard, you said you were like yes sir and you used sir with me a couple times and you used sir with me a couple times and you used sir with me a couple times when you came in and it's no but you're when you came in and it's no but you're when you came in and it's no but you're always better off being on the safe side always better off being on the safe side always better off being on the safe side and I am consistently surprised and and I am consistently surprised and and I am consistently surprised and maybe this just makes me a salty maybe this just makes me a salty maybe this just makes me a salty crotchety crotchety crotchety >> old bastard but when people are >> old bastard but when people are >> old bastard but when people are Hey, hey, Tim. Yo, bro. Yo, Ferris or Hey, hey, Tim. Yo, bro. Yo, Ferris or Hey, hey, Tim. Yo, bro. Yo, Ferris or whatever. I'm just like, did we go to whatever. I'm just like, did we go to whatever. I'm just like, did we go to pizza? pizza? pizza? >> Someone says, "Yo, Ferris." >> Someone says, "Yo, Ferris." >> Someone says, "Yo, Ferris." >> I've got so many guys, it's always guys >> I've got so many guys, it's always guys >> I've got so many guys, it's always guys who think that that bro, it could be who think that that bro, it could be who think that that bro, it could be anything, but they think that like anything, but they think that like anything, but they think that like shoulder slapping immediate camaraderie shoulder slapping immediate camaraderie shoulder slapping immediate camaraderie is helpful. I will say that's a very is helpful. I will say that's a very is helpful. I will say that's a very risky gambit. Maybe it works one out of risky gambit. Maybe it works one out of risky gambit. Maybe it works one out of 10 times. In my case, I'm just like 10 times. In my case, I'm just like 10 times. In my case, I'm just like >> this is a liability, right? Because >> this is a liability, right? Because >> this is a liability, right? Because here's how I think about it is I'm like, here's how I think about it is I'm like, here's how I think about it is I'm like, well, even if it doesn't bother me, that well, even if it doesn't bother me, that well, even if it doesn't bother me, that shows a general lack of awareness. And shows a general lack of awareness. And shows a general lack of awareness. And if they're going to ask me to connect if they're going to ask me to connect if they're going to ask me to connect them with someone or they're going to them with someone or they're going to them with someone or they're going to work with anyone who I care about and work with anyone who I care about and work with anyone who I care about and they pull that they pull that they pull that >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> it's a reputational risk. And so most of >> it's a reputational risk. And so most of >> it's a reputational risk. And so most of the time that's going to be an auto the time that's going to be an auto the time that's going to be an auto archive. It's going to be like, you know archive. It's going to be like, you know archive. It's going to be like, you know what, like the people you're reaching what, like the people you're reaching what, like the people you're reaching out to, if they're really busy and if out to, if they're really busy and if out to, if they're really busy and if they're well known enough that you think they're well known enough that you think they're well known enough that you think to email them have more opportunities to email them have more opportunities to email them have more opportunities than they can even look at. than they can even look at. than they can even look at. >> So your your job number one is don't do >> So your your job number one is don't do >> So your your job number one is don't do anything stupid. anything stupid. anything stupid. Don't don't do anything that's going to Don't don't do anything that's going to Don't don't do anything that's going to disqualify your email. disqualify your email. disqualify your email. >> And the yo fairest of it all emotionally >> And the yo fairest of it all emotionally >> And the yo fairest of it all emotionally feels as if a stranger is coming up to feels as if a stranger is coming up to feels as if a stranger is coming up to you at the airport and giving you a hug. you at the airport and giving you a hug. you at the airport and giving you a hug. Whoa, wait, who are you? What? Like Whoa, wait, who are you? What? Like Whoa, wait, who are you? What? Like that's what it feels like. Just another that's what it feels like. Just another that's what it feels like. Just another pro tip, this because we're in Austin pro tip, this because we're in Austin pro tip, this because we're in Austin and this is like kind of man bun baggy and this is like kind of man bun baggy and this is like kind of man bun baggy pants slash like Bitcoin Iaska CrossFit pants slash like Bitcoin Iaska CrossFit pants slash like Bitcoin Iaska CrossFit Central is like don't just walk up to Central is like don't just walk up to Central is like don't just walk up to someone you don't know and say after someone you don't know and say after someone you don't know and say after they offer a hand, oh I'm a hugger and they offer a hand, oh I'm a hugger and they offer a hand, oh I'm a hugger and just go for the hug. Don't do that. Like just go for the hug. Don't do that. Like just go for the hug. Don't do that. Like just really don't do that. just really don't do that. just really don't do that. >> Like assume you're in Japan and they're >> Like assume you're in Japan and they're >> Like assume you're in Japan and they're going to strike you down with a sword if going to strike you down with a sword if going to strike you down with a sword if you do that. Like the person who wants you do that. Like the person who wants you do that. Like the person who wants the most distance wins that the most distance wins that the most distance wins that conversation. It's kind of like skiing conversation. It's kind of like skiing conversation. It's kind of like skiing in the back country with avalanche risk in the back country with avalanche risk in the back country with avalanche risk or something. Whoever's the most or something. Whoever's the most or something. Whoever's the most concerned gets to veto. But let's come concerned gets to veto. But let's come concerned gets to veto. But let's come back to the cold email. So we've got the back to the cold email. So we've got the back to the cold email. So we've got the subject line, different subject lines subject line, different subject lines subject line, different subject lines for different purposes. In the first for different purposes. In the first for different purposes. In the first line, it's going to be credibility line, it's going to be credibility line, it's going to be credibility indicator. All right. Couple of points indicator. All right. Couple of points indicator. All right. Couple of points on this, right? So you've got like your on this, right? So you've got like your on this, right? So you've got like your credibility indicator in the subject credibility indicator in the subject credibility indicator in the subject line potentially also which I will also line potentially also which I will also line potentially also which I will also do, do, do, you know, be like for interview you know, be like for interview you know, be like for interview parenthesis 1 billion plus downloads, parenthesis 1 billion plus downloads, parenthesis 1 billion plus downloads, right? In the case of the podcast, right? In the case of the podcast, right? In the case of the podcast, right? something like that, right? something like that, right? something like that, >> right? And I'll note for if you don't >> right? And I'll note for if you don't >> right? And I'll note for if you don't have a billion downloads or millions of have a billion downloads or millions of have a billion downloads or millions of followers, in the beginning for me, it followers, in the beginning for me, it followers, in the beginning for me, it was examples of the work. Yeah. was examples of the work. Yeah. was examples of the work. Yeah. >> That would at least show I've I've done >> That would at least show I've I've done >> That would at least show I've I've done my homework. my homework. my homework. >> No one's watched this, but it looks >> No one's watched this, but it looks >> No one's watched this, but it looks really really good and it's it really really good and it's it really really good and it's it beautifully edited. beautifully edited. beautifully edited. >> Yeah. So, I am going to come back and >> Yeah. So, I am going to come back and >> Yeah. So, I am going to come back and ask you about just to plant the seed, ask you about just to plant the seed, ask you about just to plant the seed, the mentors in the very early days when the mentors in the very early days when the mentors in the very early days when you didn't really have you didn't really have you didn't really have >> much, right? Like what that email looked >> much, right? Like what that email looked >> much, right? Like what that email looked like. We're going to come back to that. like. We're going to come back to that. like. We're going to come back to that. >> I'll give my example. When I first got >> I'll give my example. When I first got >> I'll give my example. When I first got to Silicon Valley, I volunteered for to Silicon Valley, I volunteered for to Silicon Valley, I volunteered for organizations that had name cache. So I organizations that had name cache. So I organizations that had name cache. So I volunteered for, for instance, Tai, the volunteered for, for instance, Tai, the volunteered for, for instance, Tai, the indis entrepreneur last time, I'm sure indis entrepreneur last time, I'm sure indis entrepreneur last time, I'm sure people checked. I'm not Indian but Thai people checked. I'm not Indian but Thai people checked. I'm not Indian but Thai super wellknown at the time maybe still super wellknown at the time maybe still super wellknown at the time maybe still entrepreneurial organization like the entrepreneurial organization like the entrepreneurial organization like the per capita density in the kind of Indian per capita density in the kind of Indian per capita density in the kind of Indian diaspora in Silicon Valley with talent diaspora in Silicon Valley with talent diaspora in Silicon Valley with talent is [ __ ] bananas is [ __ ] bananas is [ __ ] bananas >> shout out those people >> shout out those people >> shout out those people >> exactly and u so I volunteered there and >> exactly and u so I volunteered there and >> exactly and u so I volunteered there and then I could say I'm emailing someone in then I could say I'm emailing someone in then I could say I'm emailing someone in tech and it would be for so and so via tech and it would be for so and so via tech and it would be for so and so via Tai or the indis entrepreneur and I Tai or the indis entrepreneur and I Tai or the indis entrepreneur and I wouldn't even put my name cuz who the wouldn't even put my name cuz who the wouldn't even put my name cuz who the hell am I? And that gets the email open. hell am I? And that gets the email open. hell am I? And that gets the email open. So, I would volunteer and then do things So, I would volunteer and then do things So, I would volunteer and then do things on behalf of the nonprofit as a way of on behalf of the nonprofit as a way of on behalf of the nonprofit as a way of establishing some kind of relationship. establishing some kind of relationship. establishing some kind of relationship. Ideally, inviting them to speak or Ideally, inviting them to speak or Ideally, inviting them to speak or something like that. something like that. something like that. >> All for free, by the way. Right. Like >> All for free, by the way. Right. Like >> All for free, by the way. Right. Like some of the highest paying jobs you'll some of the highest paying jobs you'll some of the highest paying jobs you'll ever get, you don't get paid for in the ever get, you don't get paid for in the ever get, you don't get paid for in the beginning in my opinion. beginning in my opinion. beginning in my opinion. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> I love that. >> It does pay in dividends ways you don't >> It does pay in dividends ways you don't >> It does pay in dividends ways you don't expect. expect. expect. >> Yeah. I did that and ultimately had for >> Yeah. I did that and ultimately had for >> Yeah. I did that and ultimately had for instance Jack Canfield who co-created instance Jack Canfield who co-created instance Jack Canfield who co-created Chicken Soup for the Soul which has sold Chicken Soup for the Soul which has sold Chicken Soup for the Soul which has sold hundreds and hundreds of millions of hundreds and hundreds of millions of hundreds and hundreds of millions of copies and then they ultimately sold as copies and then they ultimately sold as copies and then they ultimately sold as a franchise. But I met him through an a franchise. But I met him through an a franchise. But I met him through an email like that from the Silicon Valley email like that from the Silicon Valley email like that from the Silicon Valley Association of Startup Entrepreneurs and Association of Startup Entrepreneurs and Association of Startup Entrepreneurs and we are still friends to this day 25 we are still friends to this day 25 we are still friends to this day 25 years later or whatever it is. And he's years later or whatever it is. And he's years later or whatever it is. And he's the one who introduced me to the agent the one who introduced me to the agent the one who introduced me to the agent who ultimately sold the 4-hour work week who ultimately sold the 4-hour work week who ultimately sold the 4-hour work week after like 26 rejections. So long-term after like 26 rejections. So long-term after like 26 rejections. So long-term greedy, not short-term greedy, right? greedy, not short-term greedy, right? greedy, not short-term greedy, right? Like you don't need to be paid upfront Like you don't need to be paid upfront Like you don't need to be paid upfront for something that will ultimately be for something that will ultimately be for something that will ultimately be very very very very very very >> important to your life, right? To the >> important to your life, right? To the >> important to your life, right? To the email for the credibility indicator. And email for the credibility indicator. And email for the credibility indicator. And guys, we'll give some templates just so guys, we'll give some templates just so guys, we'll give some templates just so you don't have to piece this together in you don't have to piece this together in you don't have to piece this together in like a momento fashion, but I like to like a momento fashion, but I like to like a momento fashion, but I like to and I suggest include some text that and I suggest include some text that and I suggest include some text that establishes who you are. If someone establishes who you are. If someone establishes who you are. If someone says, "Hey, here I am, Link, and like a says, "Hey, here I am, Link, and like a says, "Hey, here I am, Link, and like a sketchy attachment." I'm like, "I don't sketchy attachment." I'm like, "I don't sketchy attachment." I'm like, "I don't have time to go on some scavenger hunt have time to go on some scavenger hunt have time to go on some scavenger hunt to figure out who you are." Right? So, to figure out who you are." Right? So, to figure out who you are." Right? So, include a line or two on who the hell include a line or two on who the hell include a line or two on who the hell you are. Do you know what I mean? you are. Do you know what I mean? you are. Do you know what I mean? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Don't require them to like click through >> Don't require them to like click through >> Don't require them to like click through and find this, this, and this, and this, and find this, this, and this, and this, and find this, this, and this, and this, and this, and this. and this, and this. and this, and this. >> A hyperl here. >> A hyperl here. >> A hyperl here. >> Uh-uh. >> Uh-uh. >> Uh-uh. >> Yeah. It's not enough. >> Yeah. It's not enough. >> Yeah. It's not enough. >> You know what I mean? When it's like >> You know what I mean? When it's like >> You know what I mean? When it's like click here. No, it should be and I've click here. No, it should be and I've click here. No, it should be and I've done this thing. Hyp hyperlink the and done this thing. Hyp hyperlink the and done this thing. Hyp hyperlink the and I've done this thing. I've done this thing. I've done this thing. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So if I want to learn more >> So if I want to learn more >> So if I want to learn more >> Yeah. And just to give people some intel >> Yeah. And just to give people some intel >> Yeah. And just to give people some intel on that, on that, on that, one reason for that is that it just one reason for that is that it just one reason for that is that it just takes more time for someone and any you takes more time for someone and any you takes more time for someone and any you need to remove the reasons for them to need to remove the reasons for them to need to remove the reasons for them to say no. And you might think to yourself say no. And you might think to yourself say no. And you might think to yourself like who the hell doesn't have 30 like who the hell doesn't have 30 like who the hell doesn't have 30 seconds or a minute to click through. seconds or a minute to click through. seconds or a minute to click through. And I'm like somebody who gets a And I'm like somebody who gets a And I'm like somebody who gets a thousand email a day. That's answer thousand email a day. That's answer thousand email a day. That's answer number one. Number two, anyone who is number one. Number two, anyone who is number one. Number two, anyone who is reasonably wellknown has a lot of reasonably wellknown has a lot of reasonably wellknown has a lot of fishing attacks. Like they have people fishing attacks. Like they have people fishing attacks. Like they have people from different vectors who are trying to from different vectors who are trying to from different vectors who are trying to get them to click on links that are very get them to click on links that are very get them to click on links that are very dangerous dangerous dangerous >> and intended to to steal information or >> and intended to to steal information or >> and intended to to steal information or set the team up for social engineering. set the team up for social engineering. set the team up for social engineering. So So So >> I have been a recipient of a false >> I have been a recipient of a false >> I have been a recipient of a false you're invited to the Tim Ferrris you're invited to the Tim Ferrris you're invited to the Tim Ferrris podcast email. podcast email. podcast email. >> Oh yeah, those that's a very clever >> Oh yeah, those that's a very clever >> Oh yeah, those that's a very clever scam. Do you know how that works? scam. Do you know how that works? scam. Do you know how that works? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. So, how that works? This is >> Okay. So, how that works? This is >> Okay. So, how that works? This is because these are still going around. I because these are still going around. I because these are still going around. I think the jig is up because people have think the jig is up because people have think the jig is up because people have realized most of these are fake. But, so realized most of these are fake. But, so realized most of these are fake. But, so I'm guessing the email was like, "We I'm guessing the email was like, "We I'm guessing the email was like, "We place people or we're inviting you on place people or we're inviting you on place people or we're inviting you on the show." Either if they're not very the show." Either if they're not very the show." Either if they're not very sophisticated, they'll be like, "It sophisticated, they'll be like, "It sophisticated, they'll be like, "It costs this much to go on the show." And costs this much to go on the show." And costs this much to go on the show." And then anyone who knows me should be like, then anyone who knows me should be like, then anyone who knows me should be like, "That doesn't sound right." But there's "That doesn't sound right." But there's "That doesn't sound right." But there's there's kind of like this payforplay there's kind of like this payforplay there's kind of like this payforplay thing which most people will sniff out. thing which most people will sniff out. thing which most people will sniff out. The other one is let's get on a Zoom The other one is let's get on a Zoom The other one is let's get on a Zoom call and discuss. And what happens is call and discuss. And what happens is call and discuss. And what happens is you get on a Zoom call and they somehow you get on a Zoom call and they somehow you get on a Zoom call and they somehow figure out a way to get you to provide figure out a way to get you to provide figure out a way to get you to provide basically screen access, not just basically screen access, not just basically screen access, not just sharing screen, but screen access. And sharing screen, but screen access. And sharing screen, but screen access. And they'll take you to your Facebook page they'll take you to your Facebook page they'll take you to your Facebook page or something like that and they will or something like that and they will or something like that and they will hijack your Facebook page, then use it hijack your Facebook page, then use it hijack your Facebook page, then use it to promote like a crypto scam on a large to promote like a crypto scam on a large to promote like a crypto scam on a large page and then hold that for ransom also page and then hold that for ransom also page and then hold that for ransom also to get money from you. So, this is just to get money from you. So, this is just to get money from you. So, this is just a way of saying guys include some a way of saying guys include some a way of saying guys include some [ __ ] text. Um, right. And then to [ __ ] text. Um, right. And then to [ __ ] text. Um, right. And then to your point again, like be very clear your point again, like be very clear your point again, like be very clear about the ask. about the ask. about the ask. >> The number of emails I get that is like >> The number of emails I get that is like >> The number of emails I get that is like even if they establish, hey, I'm like even if they establish, hey, I'm like even if they establish, hey, I'm like credible, but I'm not like, you know, a credible, but I'm not like, you know, a credible, but I'm not like, you know, a president or the CEO of a Fortune50 president or the CEO of a Fortune50 president or the CEO of a Fortune50 company. It's like if if they're like, company. It's like if if they're like, company. It's like if if they're like, okay, this might be kind of interesting, okay, this might be kind of interesting, okay, this might be kind of interesting, right? If it's like Rick Rubin who's, right? If it's like Rick Rubin who's, right? If it's like Rick Rubin who's, you know, I did his first interview on a you know, I did his first interview on a you know, I did his first interview on a podcast ever in his sauna, but it's like podcast ever in his sauna, but it's like podcast ever in his sauna, but it's like if you're like, "Oh, it's [ __ ] Rick if you're like, "Oh, it's [ __ ] Rick if you're like, "Oh, it's [ __ ] Rick Rubin." And he's like, "Hey, let's jump Rubin." And he's like, "Hey, let's jump Rubin." And he's like, "Hey, let's jump on the phone." You're like, "Yeah, of on the phone." You're like, "Yeah, of on the phone." You're like, "Yeah, of course. Okay, fine. As long as I can course. Okay, fine. As long as I can course. Okay, fine. As long as I can confirm that's who the person is, confirm that's who the person is, confirm that's who the person is, >> right?" >> right?" >> right?" >> But otherwise, assuming that you who's >> But otherwise, assuming that you who's >> But otherwise, assuming that you who's cold emailing is not Rick Rubin, which cold emailing is not Rick Rubin, which cold emailing is not Rick Rubin, which is likely, then be clear about your ask, is likely, then be clear about your ask, is likely, then be clear about your ask, right? If it's like, "Would love to right? If it's like, "Would love to right? If it's like, "Would love to discuss something vague. Let's hop on discuss something vague. Let's hop on discuss something vague. Let's hop on the phone to discuss how's next Tuesday the phone to discuss how's next Tuesday the phone to discuss how's next Tuesday at 2 p.m." I'm never going to respond to at 2 p.m." I'm never going to respond to at 2 p.m." I'm never going to respond to that, right? Because if you can't write that, right? Because if you can't write that, right? Because if you can't write a professional first cold email, I'm a professional first cold email, I'm a professional first cold email, I'm skeptical of everything that's going to skeptical of everything that's going to skeptical of everything that's going to follow. Right. Right. You're not placing follow. Right. Right. You're not placing follow. Right. Right. You're not placing a value on the recipient's time a value on the recipient's time a value on the recipient's time that you've thought through. Does that that you've thought through. Does that that you've thought through. Does that make sense? So, it's like be really make sense? So, it's like be really make sense? So, it's like be really clear in the ask. And then when I close, clear in the ask. And then when I close, clear in the ask. And then when I close, again, to your point, right? Make your again, to your point, right? Make your again, to your point, right? Make your cell phone. And by the way, you can use cell phone. And by the way, you can use cell phone. And by the way, you can use a burner or you can use Google Voice. a burner or you can use Google Voice. a burner or you can use Google Voice. You can spin up a Google Voice number You can spin up a Google Voice number You can spin up a Google Voice number very easily from any G Suite, etc., etc. very easily from any G Suite, etc., etc. very easily from any G Suite, etc., etc. But have a number, right, where somebody But have a number, right, where somebody But have a number, right, where somebody can reach you. Do not just bury it in can reach you. Do not just bury it in can reach you. Do not just bury it in your signature. Make it explicitly your signature. Make it explicitly your signature. Make it explicitly clear. Feel free to text me anytime. clear. Feel free to text me anytime. clear. Feel free to text me anytime. >> Right. We can schedule or just feel free >> Right. We can schedule or just feel free >> Right. We can schedule or just feel free to hop on the phone. I promise it will to hop on the phone. I promise it will to hop on the phone. I promise it will not take more than 10 minutes. By the not take more than 10 minutes. By the not take more than 10 minutes. By the way, if you say that, do not go over 10 way, if you say that, do not go over 10 way, if you say that, do not go over 10 minutes. minutes. minutes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then I'll almost always say, >> And then I'll almost always say, >> And then I'll almost always say, if you've read this far, I really if you've read this far, I really if you've read this far, I really appreciate it. And if you're too busy to appreciate it. And if you're too busy to appreciate it. And if you're too busy to get back to me, I totally understand. get back to me, I totally understand. get back to me, I totally understand. >> Okay, that's a great learning. I'm going >> Okay, that's a great learning. I'm going >> Okay, that's a great learning. I'm going to add that. to add that. to add that. love that. love that. love that. >> And by displaying as little or zero >> And by displaying as little or zero >> And by displaying as little or zero entitlement as possible, you get a much entitlement as possible, you get a much entitlement as possible, you get a much higher response rate. Why? Because your higher response rate. Why? Because your higher response rate. Why? Because your cold email is an audition for everything cold email is an audition for everything cold email is an audition for everything else to come. So, if you're like, else to come. So, if you're like, else to come. So, if you're like, "Here's this vague email. How about next "Here's this vague email. How about next "Here's this vague email. How about next Tuesday or Thursday at 2 p.m." It's Tuesday or Thursday at 2 p.m." It's Tuesday or Thursday at 2 p.m." It's like, "Bro, slow down." Like, you're like, "Bro, slow down." Like, you're like, "Bro, slow down." Like, you're humping my leg already. We haven't even humping my leg already. We haven't even humping my leg already. We haven't even established who you are or what you established who you are or what you established who you are or what you want. And that reflects a certain lack want. And that reflects a certain lack want. And that reflects a certain lack of awareness and kind of business savvy of awareness and kind of business savvy of awareness and kind of business savvy that is going to be a problem later, that is going to be a problem later, that is going to be a problem later, right? That's kind of how the train of right? That's kind of how the train of right? That's kind of how the train of thought goes. And that's it. Here's thought goes. And that's it. Here's thought goes. And that's it. Here's another pro tip. If you send that email, another pro tip. If you send that email, another pro tip. If you send that email, do not follow up two days later with do not follow up two days later with do not follow up two days later with bumping this up and then do that two bumping this up and then do that two bumping this up and then do that two days later bumping this up. You get to days later bumping this up. You get to days later bumping this up. You get to do that once. do that once. do that once. >> I think it's got to be at least a week. >> I think it's got to be at least a week. >> I think it's got to be at least a week. >> Yeah. You got to wait and you're allowed >> Yeah. You got to wait and you're allowed >> Yeah. You got to wait and you're allowed to do it once and then just assume to do it once and then just assume to do it once and then just assume they're not interested. And that's okay. they're not interested. And that's okay. they're not interested. And that's okay. move on. World is full of great people move on. World is full of great people move on. World is full of great people and if people are not responding to your and if people are not responding to your and if people are not responding to your email, it's probably common denominator email, it's probably common denominator email, it's probably common denominator or problem with the email. or problem with the email. or problem with the email. You know what I mean? So, in the You know what I mean? So, in the You know what I mean? So, in the beginning when you're reaching out to beginning when you're reaching out to beginning when you're reaching out to mentors, you ju, you know, you just quit mentors, you ju, you know, you just quit mentors, you ju, you know, you just quit your job. your job. your job. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What are you saying in the email? >> What are you saying in the email? >> What are you saying in the email? >> Here, here's an example. I sent a cold >> Here, here's an example. I sent a cold >> Here, here's an example. I sent a cold email to Hank Green who is email to Hank Green who is email to Hank Green who is >> just one of the great >> just one of the great >> just one of the great >> describe describe who Hank Green is. >> describe describe who Hank Green is. >> describe describe who Hank Green is. >> Hank Green is if sunshine and joy and a >> Hank Green is if sunshine and joy and a >> Hank Green is if sunshine and joy and a human encyclopedia were bundled into one human encyclopedia were bundled into one human encyclopedia were bundled into one person. Just one of the smartest, person. Just one of the smartest, person. Just one of the smartest, coolest, groundbreaking people, coolest, groundbreaking people, coolest, groundbreaking people, especially in the YouTube world ever. He especially in the YouTube world ever. He especially in the YouTube world ever. He came and gave a talk at Buzzfeed once came and gave a talk at Buzzfeed once came and gave a talk at Buzzfeed once when I worked there. And maybe this was when I worked there. And maybe this was when I worked there. And maybe this was while I was still working there or while I was still working there or while I was still working there or shortly after I left, I sent him an shortly after I left, I sent him an shortly after I left, I sent him an email. And this is actually a counter to email. And this is actually a counter to email. And this is actually a counter to everything we've discussed. I wasn't everything we've discussed. I wasn't everything we've discussed. I wasn't explicitly reaching out about a a explicitly reaching out about a a explicitly reaching out about a a business idea or anything or trying to business idea or anything or trying to business idea or anything or trying to get something from him, but I wanted to get something from him, but I wanted to get something from him, but I wanted to get to know him. And so I sent him an get to know him. And so I sent him an get to know him. And so I sent him an email email email saying that I'm learning as I consider saying that I'm learning as I consider saying that I'm learning as I consider pursuing my own creative endeavor. And pursuing my own creative endeavor. And pursuing my own creative endeavor. And I'm curious, I'm curious, I'm curious, what was the most what was the most what was the most formative pinpoint for you as a child to formative pinpoint for you as a child to formative pinpoint for you as a child to pursue this profession? And it's just a pursue this profession? And it's just a pursue this profession? And it's just a fun question. Honestly, there's not much fun question. Honestly, there's not much fun question. Honestly, there's not much strategy here. And he sent back a strategy here. And he sent back a strategy here. And he sent back a multi-page answer. And I think he multi-page answer. And I think he multi-page answer. And I think he >> What was your subject line? Do you >> What was your subject line? Do you >> What was your subject line? Do you remember? remember? remember? >> What was the subject line? The subject >> What was the subject line? The subject >> What was the subject line? The subject line was hello from Michelle Caren line was hello from Michelle Caren line was hello from Michelle Caren Buzzfeed. So using the the title of some Buzzfeed. So using the the title of some Buzzfeed. So using the the title of some some form of legitimacy, but he sent me some form of legitimacy, but he sent me some form of legitimacy, but he sent me this multi-page this multi-page this multi-page response response response >> and at the end said, "Thanks for the >> and at the end said, "Thanks for the >> and at the end said, "Thanks for the thoughtful question. No one's asked me thoughtful question. No one's asked me thoughtful question. No one's asked me before." And so sometimes I find that before." And so sometimes I find that before." And so sometimes I find that people are excited to share themselves. people are excited to share themselves. people are excited to share themselves. And of course in him sharing that story, And of course in him sharing that story, And of course in him sharing that story, I learned a lot about how I could find I learned a lot about how I could find I learned a lot about how I could find creative inspiration or even find creative inspiration or even find creative inspiration or even find parallels with someone who externally I parallels with someone who externally I parallels with someone who externally I don't have a lot of overlap with. don't have a lot of overlap with. don't have a lot of overlap with. And I think that was awesome. And now And I think that was awesome. And now And I think that was awesome. And now today where I know him in a more today where I know him in a more today where I know him in a more friendly capacity as peers in the space friendly capacity as peers in the space friendly capacity as peers in the space is really special to have those email is really special to have those email is really special to have those email like these emails like this are so crazy like these emails like this are so crazy like these emails like this are so crazy to go back on. So even if you send a to go back on. So even if you send a to go back on. So even if you send a cold email and never hear back, it might cold email and never hear back, it might cold email and never hear back, it might make for a great story later. make for a great story later. make for a great story later. >> And guess what? You're practicing your >> And guess what? You're practicing your >> And guess what? You're practicing your ability to craft emails and your ability ability to craft emails and your ability ability to craft emails and your ability to communicate. to communicate. to communicate. And this would be like I interviewed And this would be like I interviewed And this would be like I interviewed Brandon Sanderson, one of the most Brandon Sanderson, one of the most Brandon Sanderson, one of the most legendary fantasy writers in the world, legendary fantasy writers in the world, legendary fantasy writers in the world, who is prolific. And I think he wrote I who is prolific. And I think he wrote I who is prolific. And I think he wrote I think it was five think it was five think it was five books before he even attempted to books before he even attempted to books before he even attempted to publish one. publish one. publish one. >> He intentionally said, "I'm not >> He intentionally said, "I'm not >> He intentionally said, "I'm not publishing my first several books." publishing my first several books." publishing my first several books." Isn't that right? Isn't that right? Isn't that right? >> That's right. That's right. I did a just >> That's right. That's right. I did a just >> That's right. That's right. I did a just a huge romp with him. Met up at his HQ a huge romp with him. Met up at his HQ a huge romp with him. Met up at his HQ in in Utah. fascinating, brilliant guy. in in Utah. fascinating, brilliant guy. in in Utah. fascinating, brilliant guy. But the point is, maybe your first five But the point is, maybe your first five But the point is, maybe your first five to 10 cold emails are just to improve to 10 cold emails are just to improve to 10 cold emails are just to improve getting better at cold emails. And getting better at cold emails. And getting better at cold emails. And by the way, something I did also is I by the way, something I did also is I by the way, something I did also is I would ask people who I had not sent would ask people who I had not sent would ask people who I had not sent those cold emails, but who are like those cold emails, but who are like those cold emails, but who are like better known folks. I'll be like, "Hey, better known folks. I'll be like, "Hey, better known folks. I'll be like, "Hey, would you mind taking a look at I I would you mind taking a look at I I would you mind taking a look at I I would do this at events sometimes. I'd would do this at events sometimes. I'd would do this at events sometimes. I'd be like, "This is going to seem like a be like, "This is going to seem like a be like, "This is going to seem like a weird request. weird request. weird request. Don't worry, it's not anything like Don't worry, it's not anything like Don't worry, it's not anything like super super bizarre, but would you be super super bizarre, but would you be super super bizarre, but would you be willing to critique this email? Like I willing to critique this email? Like I willing to critique this email? Like I I've sent this to a couple people. You I've sent this to a couple people. You I've sent this to a couple people. You know, I haven't gotten a response or I know, I haven't gotten a response or I know, I haven't gotten a response or I only got one response. Like, how would only got one response. Like, how would only got one response. Like, how would you change this? you change this? you change this? >> And like that is a very concrete >> And like that is a very concrete >> And like that is a very concrete question. And it's also not clearly a question. And it's also not clearly a question. And it's also not clearly a question that's just setting up the question that's just setting up the question that's just setting up the thing you actually want. Do you know thing you actually want. Do you know thing you actually want. Do you know what I mean? Like cuz sometimes people what I mean? Like cuz sometimes people what I mean? Like cuz sometimes people will do that via email. They'll be like, will do that via email. They'll be like, will do that via email. They'll be like, >> "Hey, I loved your sweater. How did you >> "Hey, I loved your sweater. How did you >> "Hey, I loved your sweater. How did you train your dog?" And then like 5 seconds train your dog?" And then like 5 seconds train your dog?" And then like 5 seconds after I reply to that, they're like, "So after I reply to that, they're like, "So after I reply to that, they're like, "So anyway, I was thinking of having, you anyway, I was thinking of having, you anyway, I was thinking of having, you know, myself on your podcast." I'm just know, myself on your podcast." I'm just know, myself on your podcast." I'm just like, "Oh, you asshole." Like I like like, "Oh, you asshole." Like I like like, "Oh, you asshole." Like I like clearly you're just setting it up. So clearly you're just setting it up. So clearly you're just setting it up. So just be aware of that. just be aware of that. just be aware of that. >> You got click baited. >> You got click baited. >> You got click baited. >> I got click baited. So a few things. >> I got click baited. So a few things. >> I got click baited. So a few things. Hank Green I I don't know him Hank Green I I don't know him Hank Green I I don't know him personally, but I remember seeing him at personally, but I remember seeing him at personally, but I remember seeing him at VidCon once. And there are two things I VidCon once. And there are two things I VidCon once. And there are two things I want to say. One is just what a sweet want to say. One is just what a sweet want to say. One is just what a sweet guy. Seems like a really sweet human guy. Seems like a really sweet human guy. Seems like a really sweet human being. Number two is you reached out being. Number two is you reached out being. Number two is you reached out with let's say a mentoring question with let's say a mentoring question with let's say a mentoring question >> to someone who already has demonstrated >> to someone who already has demonstrated >> to someone who already has demonstrated that they mentor. Does that make sense? that they mentor. Does that make sense? that they mentor. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. So that will make your life >> Right. So that will make your life >> Right. So that will make your life easier in the beginning. easier in the beginning. easier in the beginning. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> When you're sending out these these cold >> When you're sending out these these cold >> When you're sending out these these cold emails. The other thing is if you do get emails. The other thing is if you do get emails. The other thing is if you do get a response from somebody, treat it a response from somebody, treat it a response from somebody, treat it like you're not at a sex party, you are like you're not at a sex party, you are like you're not at a sex party, you are dating someone in like the 1800s, right? dating someone in like the 1800s, right? dating someone in like the 1800s, right? This is like Downtown Abbey. Do not This is like Downtown Abbey. Do not This is like Downtown Abbey. Do not reply 5 seconds later with like, "Oh, reply 5 seconds later with like, "Oh, reply 5 seconds later with like, "Oh, great. Now here are 10 more questions. great. Now here are 10 more questions. great. Now here are 10 more questions. Don't do that." Right? Like Don't do that." Right? Like Don't do that." Right? Like >> be patient. Like life is longful and >> be patient. Like life is longful and >> be patient. Like life is longful and thoughtful. Life is long. If you want thoughtful. Life is long. If you want thoughtful. Life is long. If you want these relationships, I mean, I will also these relationships, I mean, I will also these relationships, I mean, I will also say you do not need to have a 100 say you do not need to have a 100 say you do not need to have a 100 relationships with people who are steps relationships with people who are steps relationships with people who are steps ahead of you. If you actually develop ahead of you. If you actually develop ahead of you. If you actually develop genuine, genuine, genuine, mutually respectful mutually respectful mutually respectful communication with a few people, in most communication with a few people, in most communication with a few people, in most cases, in a lot of cases, you are set, cases, in a lot of cases, you are set, cases, in a lot of cases, you are set, right? So, it's like don't be greedy. right? So, it's like don't be greedy. right? So, it's like don't be greedy. Don't be a greedy little piglet. Don't Don't be a greedy little piglet. Don't Don't be a greedy little piglet. Don't be in a rush. Mhm. be in a rush. Mhm. be in a rush. Mhm. >> And I've certainly had to learn that by >> And I've certainly had to learn that by >> And I've certainly had to learn that by [ __ ] that up over and over again [ __ ] that up over and over again [ __ ] that up over and over again because I'm like constitutionally very because I'm like constitutionally very because I'm like constitutionally very impatient. Like I want to get stuff done impatient. Like I want to get stuff done impatient. Like I want to get stuff done like very quickly and some things do not like very quickly and some things do not like very quickly and some things do not lend themselves to that. You mentioned, lend themselves to that. You mentioned, lend themselves to that. You mentioned, you know, Snider's beats of you know, Snider's beats of you know, Snider's beats of storytelling. I think storytelling. I think storytelling. I think >> for sure. >> for sure. >> for sure. >> Don't quiz me on that. >> Don't quiz me on that. >> Don't quiz me on that. >> I won't I won't I won't quiz you on it. >> I won't I won't I won't quiz you on it. >> I won't I won't I won't quiz you on it. As far as storytelling goes, As far as storytelling goes, As far as storytelling goes, >> as far as developing like narrative >> as far as developing like narrative >> as far as developing like narrative arcs, does not need to be a book, but it arcs, does not need to be a book, but it arcs, does not need to be a book, but it could be like, are there any particular could be like, are there any particular could be like, are there any particular resources you would point people to resources you would point people to resources you would point people to where you're like, "Okay, where you're like, "Okay, where you're like, "Okay, >> oh gosh, >> oh gosh, >> oh gosh, >> I know there's like being in the >> I know there's like being in the >> I know there's like being in the trenches and working on it and and trenches and working on it and and trenches and working on it and and testing and split testing and using kind testing and split testing and using kind testing and split testing and using kind of warm audiences in the beginning, of warm audiences in the beginning, of warm audiences in the beginning, etc." But if you're like, "All right, etc." But if you're like, "All right, etc." But if you're like, "All right, look, if you want to do something look, if you want to do something look, if you want to do something analogous to what I'm doing on YouTube, analogous to what I'm doing on YouTube, analogous to what I'm doing on YouTube, right? And there are other examples of right? And there are other examples of right? And there are other examples of people who put put out very few videos, people who put put out very few videos, people who put put out very few videos, right? But this sort of longer form right? But this sort of longer form right? But this sort of longer form narrative arc storytelling. If you were narrative arc storytelling. If you were narrative arc storytelling. If you were teaching a class on that, like what's teaching a class on that, like what's teaching a class on that, like what's the syllabus like? What do you what do the syllabus like? What do you what do the syllabus like? What do you what do you tell people to read or watch?" you tell people to read or watch?" you tell people to read or watch?" >> Challenge accept like reality >> Challenge accept like reality >> Challenge accept like reality >> docu class. Okay. Welcome to my class. >> docu class. Okay. Welcome to my class. >> docu class. Okay. Welcome to my class. On the syllabus, we're going to be On the syllabus, we're going to be On the syllabus, we're going to be studying a few things. First of all, I'm studying a few things. First of all, I'm studying a few things. First of all, I'm going to make everyone watch Survivor going to make everyone watch Survivor going to make everyone watch Survivor and every week we're going to discuss and every week we're going to discuss and every week we're going to discuss it. First of all, because it's the best it. First of all, because it's the best it. First of all, because it's the best ever. I'm obsessed with Jeff Probes. ever. I'm obsessed with Jeff Probes. ever. I'm obsessed with Jeff Probes. >> And >> And >> And I think that part of I think that part of I think that part of reality doc in particular, Survivor is a reality doc in particular, Survivor is a reality doc in particular, Survivor is a reality competition show, but there's a reality competition show, but there's a reality competition show, but there's a lot that can be learned in doing your lot that can be learned in doing your lot that can be learned in doing your own vlogs or self-filmed own vlogs or self-filmed own vlogs or self-filmed human stories. They do an excellent job human stories. They do an excellent job human stories. They do an excellent job at taking hundreds of hours of footage at taking hundreds of hours of footage at taking hundreds of hours of footage and pulling out the story beats that and pulling out the story beats that and pulling out the story beats that make sense. You watch an episode of make sense. You watch an episode of make sense. You watch an episode of Survivor, it might feel like things are Survivor, it might feel like things are Survivor, it might feel like things are just happening and they are, but they're just happening and they are, but they're just happening and they are, but they're also curated from thousands and also curated from thousands and also curated from thousands and thousands of moments, storylines that thousands of moments, storylines that thousands of moments, storylines that were left on the floor. And so I think were left on the floor. And so I think were left on the floor. And so I think Survivor is an amazing lesson in first Survivor is an amazing lesson in first Survivor is an amazing lesson in first of all hosting and second of all killing of all hosting and second of all killing of all hosting and second of all killing your babies in a way. We know on that your babies in a way. We know on that your babies in a way. We know on that island they're out there for a month and island they're out there for a month and island they're out there for a month and a half. A lot's going to happen that's a half. A lot's going to happen that's a half. A lot's going to happen that's not going to make the edit. But why have not going to make the edit. But why have not going to make the edit. But why have the producers chosen this storyline to the producers chosen this storyline to the producers chosen this storyline to tell? Why is it engaging? Why is this tell? Why is it engaging? Why is this tell? Why is it engaging? Why is this the act break for the commercial? I the act break for the commercial? I the act break for the commercial? I think that's number one. Selfishly, think that's number one. Selfishly, think that's number one. Selfishly, Propes is the goat. Also, sidebar, Propes is the goat. Also, sidebar, Propes is the goat. Also, sidebar, Proped is an excellent example also of Proped is an excellent example also of Proped is an excellent example also of creating defensible IP, right? Which a creating defensible IP, right? Which a creating defensible IP, right? Which a lot which a lot of people don't realize. lot which a lot of people don't realize. lot which a lot of people don't realize. They're like, "Oh, isn't he just the They're like, "Oh, isn't he just the They're like, "Oh, isn't he just the host guy?" It's like, "No, no, no, no, host guy?" It's like, "No, no, no, no, host guy?" It's like, "No, no, no, no, >> no. He's he's the Einstein of that >> no. He's he's the Einstein of that >> no. He's he's the Einstein of that operation. operation. operation. >> It's amazing." And when you watch his >> It's amazing." And when you watch his >> It's amazing." And when you watch his hosting, it's so masterful because hosting, it's so masterful because hosting, it's so masterful because he is a fan and also a researcher of the he is a fan and also a researcher of the he is a fan and also a researcher of the people on the show. I mean, you see him people on the show. I mean, you see him people on the show. I mean, you see him at tribal council. He is recounting at tribal council. He is recounting at tribal council. He is recounting things that have happened decades ago. things that have happened decades ago. things that have happened decades ago. He knows the details of the He knows the details of the He knows the details of the contestants's life and he asks a contestants's life and he asks a contestants's life and he asks a question not as a leading question, but question not as a leading question, but question not as a leading question, but as a way for the contestant to open up. as a way for the contestant to open up. as a way for the contestant to open up. I think that is incredible interviewing I think that is incredible interviewing I think that is incredible interviewing and it's something that I study too. I and it's something that I study too. I and it's something that I study too. I did a show called Karma on HBO which was did a show called Karma on HBO which was did a show called Karma on HBO which was a kids survival show um produced by JD a kids survival show um produced by JD a kids survival show um produced by JD Roth, you know, another like huge Roth, you know, another like huge Roth, you know, another like huge reality legend. And again, I think reality legend. And again, I think reality legend. And again, I think people watch these shows and and think people watch these shows and and think people watch these shows and and think the hosts are just there to say lines the hosts are just there to say lines the hosts are just there to say lines and deliver and deliver and deliver information to the audience, but there information to the audience, but there information to the audience, but there is a massive amount of research. I mean, is a massive amount of research. I mean, is a massive amount of research. I mean, you have a binder of every kid's head you have a binder of every kid's head you have a binder of every kid's head shot, where they're from, their family. shot, where they're from, their family. shot, where they're from, their family. You're taking notes. You're sitting in You're taking notes. You're sitting in You're taking notes. You're sitting in MCR, which is this trailer with hundreds MCR, which is this trailer with hundreds MCR, which is this trailer with hundreds of video feeds as it's happening live, of video feeds as it's happening live, of video feeds as it's happening live, so that when you go to meet with the so that when you go to meet with the so that when you go to meet with the contestants, you know what things to ask contestants, you know what things to ask contestants, you know what things to ask and how long to sit with them. So, I I and how long to sit with them. So, I I and how long to sit with them. So, I I think that's just masterful story, not think that's just masterful story, not think that's just masterful story, not from just a a great host, but also a from just a a great host, but also a from just a a great host, but also a producer. producer. producer. >> Okay. So, on the syllabus, you got >> Okay. So, on the syllabus, you got >> Okay. So, on the syllabus, you got >> We got We're watching some reality >> We got We're watching some reality >> We got We're watching some reality shows. shows. shows. >> Yep. This is like Robert McKe I guess >> Yep. This is like Robert McKe I guess >> Yep. This is like Robert McKe I guess the story seminar with like Casablanca. the story seminar with like Casablanca. the story seminar with like Casablanca. He's like we're going to walk by this He's like we're going to walk by this He's like we're going to walk by this second by second. second by second. second by second. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Look at what's going on. All right. So >> Look at what's going on. All right. So >> Look at what's going on. All right. So So we got Survivor as one part of the So we got Survivor as one part of the So we got Survivor as one part of the syllabus. syllabus. syllabus. >> Survivor is one part of the syllabus. >> Survivor is one part of the syllabus. >> Survivor is one part of the syllabus. >> Part two is we are going to study >> Part two is we are going to study >> Part two is we are going to study Snider's Beats and we're going to study Snider's Beats and we're going to study Snider's Beats and we're going to study the save the cat of it all. the save the cat of it all. the save the cat of it all. >> Those two books are so good >> Those two books are so good >> Those two books are so good >> and I have I have some screenwriter >> and I have I have some screenwriter >> and I have I have some screenwriter friends who are like, "Yeah, they are friends who are like, "Yeah, they are friends who are like, "Yeah, they are really good." And others were like, really good." And others were like, really good." And others were like, "Please, no, don't don't suggest it." "Please, no, don't don't suggest it." "Please, no, don't don't suggest it." I'm like, "They I you look, I haven't I'm like, "They I you look, I haven't I'm like, "They I you look, I haven't practiced as much as you have or other practiced as much as you have or other practiced as much as you have or other folks." I'm like, "These make it very folks." I'm like, "These make it very folks." I'm like, "These make it very tangible," tangible," tangible," >> right? I think it's important to >> right? I think it's important to >> right? I think it's important to understand understand understand the bones of a of a story. What are the the bones of a of a story. What are the the bones of a of a story. What are the the hills and the valleys? What is the the hills and the valleys? What is the the hills and the valleys? What is the all is lost? And and I think a lot of all is lost? And and I think a lot of all is lost? And and I think a lot of people look at that material and think people look at that material and think people look at that material and think it only applies to scripted content. it only applies to scripted content. it only applies to scripted content. But it is so important in any piece of But it is so important in any piece of But it is so important in any piece of story. story. story. >> Storytelling storytelling. It >> Storytelling storytelling. It >> Storytelling storytelling. It >> applies to my It applies to books. It >> applies to my It applies to books. It >> applies to my It applies to books. It applies to all of it. applies to all of it. applies to all of it. >> Yes. Exactly. I would even go as far to >> Yes. Exactly. I would even go as far to >> Yes. Exactly. I would even go as far to say that a 5-second vine, if it performs say that a 5-second vine, if it performs say that a 5-second vine, if it performs well, hits all of the pieces of a story well, hits all of the pieces of a story well, hits all of the pieces of a story arc in just a few seconds. It sets a arc in just a few seconds. It sets a arc in just a few seconds. It sets a premise. It upends it. And there's a premise. It upends it. And there's a premise. It upends it. And there's a resolution where the character is resolution where the character is resolution where the character is changed by the end. Even a video of like changed by the end. Even a video of like changed by the end. Even a video of like a a cat leaping off something a a cat leaping off something a a cat leaping off something and doing something crazy has a and doing something crazy has a and doing something crazy has a beginning, middle, and end where the cat beginning, middle, and end where the cat beginning, middle, and end where the cat is different at the beginning and the is different at the beginning and the is different at the beginning and the end of that America's Funniest Home end of that America's Funniest Home end of that America's Funniest Home video clip. And that's why we like it. video clip. And that's why we like it. video clip. And that's why we like it. That's why we laugh. That's why we That's why we laugh. That's why we That's why we laugh. That's why we engage with it. And so I think it's engage with it. And so I think it's engage with it. And so I think it's really important to understand that. really important to understand that. really important to understand that. Part three of the syllabus. Let's see. I Part three of the syllabus. Let's see. I Part three of the syllabus. Let's see. I feel like we have to have three parts of feel like we have to have three parts of feel like we have to have three parts of the syllabus. The third part of the the syllabus. The third part of the the syllabus. The third part of the syllabus would be an area of the class syllabus would be an area of the class syllabus would be an area of the class where everyone brings a piece of work where everyone brings a piece of work where everyone brings a piece of work released online within the last week released online within the last week released online within the last week that impacted them. This would be the that impacted them. This would be the that impacted them. This would be the assess and dissect portion of the class. assess and dissect portion of the class. assess and dissect portion of the class. Why did this YouTube video speak to you? Why did this YouTube video speak to you? Why did this YouTube video speak to you? Oh, well, I I just wanted to learn about Oh, well, I I just wanted to learn about Oh, well, I I just wanted to learn about how the Corona virus spread originally how the Corona virus spread originally how the Corona virus spread originally and I saw this video on Kisagot. and I saw this video on Kisagot. and I saw this video on Kisagot. Okay, but let's break it down. What was Okay, but let's break it down. What was Okay, but let's break it down. What was interesting? What what was the title? interesting? What what was the title? interesting? What what was the title? What was the thumbnail? What why did What was the thumbnail? What why did What was the thumbnail? What why did this Tik Tok speak to you? Why did it this Tik Tok speak to you? Why did it this Tik Tok speak to you? Why did it stand out? And I would want people to stand out? And I would want people to stand out? And I would want people to bring things that performed well or bring things that performed well or bring things that performed well or didn't so we can understand resonance. didn't so we can understand resonance. didn't so we can understand resonance. As you mentioned earlier, attention is As you mentioned earlier, attention is As you mentioned earlier, attention is such a very very valuable and finite and such a very very valuable and finite and such a very very valuable and finite and rare resource these days that I would rare resource these days that I would rare resource these days that I would want a discussion component of of the want a discussion component of of the want a discussion component of of the class to talk about relevant impact in class to talk about relevant impact in class to talk about relevant impact in recent media. So, that would be the recent media. So, that would be the recent media. So, that would be the wackiest class ever, but that's what wackiest class ever, but that's what wackiest class ever, but that's what we'd be doing. we'd be doing. we'd be doing. >> If you had, and I know we're doing this on the fly, and I know we're doing this on the fly, but but but >> let's just say >> let's just say >> let's just say project assignments, right? And I'll buy project assignments, right? And I'll buy project assignments, right? And I'll buy you some time because I'm going to you some time because I'm going to you some time because I'm going to >> drink some water. >> drink some water. >> drink some water. >> I know this is on the spot, but >> I know this is on the spot, but >> I know this is on the spot, but >> the most formative writing class that I >> the most formative writing class that I >> the most formative writing class that I took, and I really only took one took, and I really only took one took, and I really only took one seminar ever focused on writing. I got seminar ever focused on writing. I got seminar ever focused on writing. I got very lucky in college. But we there were very lucky in college. But we there were very lucky in college. But we there were two components to the class. There there two components to the class. There there two components to the class. There there were these once-weekly lectures were these once-weekly lectures were these once-weekly lectures two or three hours long, pretty long on two or three hours long, pretty long on two or three hours long, pretty long on writing with a tremendous focus on writing with a tremendous focus on writing with a tremendous focus on structure primarily. structure primarily. structure primarily. And then And then And then there were reviews of work that we had there were reviews of work that we had there were reviews of work that we had already submitted. So each week we had a already submitted. So each week we had a already submitted. So each week we had a writing assignment writing assignment writing assignment and typically in the range like three to and typically in the range like three to and typically in the range like three to 10 pages, but let's just call it three 10 pages, but let's just call it three 10 pages, but let's just call it three to five pages. to five pages. to five pages. And you would you would write your And you would you would write your And you would you would write your piece. Then you would sort of submit it piece. Then you would sort of submit it piece. Then you would sort of submit it at the beginning of of the lecture. Then at the beginning of of the lecture. Then at the beginning of of the lecture. Then you would have a one-on-one with the you would have a one-on-one with the you would have a one-on-one with the professor, in this case, John McY. If professor, in this case, John McY. If professor, in this case, John McY. If people haven't read John McY, they people haven't read John McY, they people haven't read John McY, they should. Just tremendous. If you want to should. Just tremendous. If you want to should. Just tremendous. If you want to read something short, Levels of the Game read something short, Levels of the Game read something short, Levels of the Game is incredible. is incredible. is incredible. He's won one or two Peele surprises. He's won one or two Peele surprises. He's won one or two Peele surprises. Just a phenomenal writer, can make Just a phenomenal writer, can make Just a phenomenal writer, can make anything interesting. And wrote an anything interesting. And wrote an anything interesting. And wrote an entire book on oranges, for instance. entire book on oranges, for instance. entire book on oranges, for instance. Another one on handcarved wooden canoes Another one on handcarved wooden canoes Another one on handcarved wooden canoes and another one on the geology and and another one on the geology and and another one on the geology and nature of Alaska. I mean, the guy, nature of Alaska. I mean, the guy, nature of Alaska. I mean, the guy, >> wow, >> wow, >> wow, >> is just incredible. The levels of the >> is just incredible. The levels of the >> is just incredible. The levels of the game is is about basically the entire game is is about basically the entire game is is about basically the entire game of tennis, but told through the game of tennis, but told through the game of tennis, but told through the lens of one match involving Arthur Ash. lens of one match involving Arthur Ash. lens of one match involving Arthur Ash. So, we had the lecture, then we have So, we had the lecture, then we have So, we had the lecture, then we have these writing assignments. You turn in these writing assignments. You turn in these writing assignments. You turn in whatever your new assignment is at the whatever your new assignment is at the whatever your new assignment is at the beginning of each of the lectures, and beginning of each of the lectures, and beginning of each of the lectures, and then you have your one-on-one with then you have your one-on-one with then you have your one-on-one with Professor MCI. He gives you back your Professor MCI. He gives you back your Professor MCI. He gives you back your printed out writing, which typically printed out writing, which typically printed out writing, which typically will have, at least in the be in the will have, at least in the be in the will have, at least in the be in the first few weeks, more red ink from his first few weeks, more red ink from his first few weeks, more red ink from his edits and notes than what you put on the edits and notes than what you put on the edits and notes than what you put on the page. It is brutal. Brutal, but page. It is brutal. Brutal, but page. It is brutal. Brutal, but incredibly incredibly incredibly >> helpful. Okay, so you've got these >> helpful. Okay, so you've got these >> helpful. Okay, so you've got these writing assignments and the writing writing assignments and the writing writing assignments and the writing assignments are all over the place, but assignments are all over the place, but assignments are all over the place, but it might be something as seemingly it might be something as seemingly it might be something as seemingly simple slash difficult as find us find a simple slash difficult as find us find a simple slash difficult as find us find a sculpture on campus and write three to sculpture on campus and write three to sculpture on campus and write three to five pages on it. And we're like, can five pages on it. And we're like, can five pages on it. And we're like, can you give us any more direction? He's you give us any more direction? He's you give us any more direction? He's like, no. like, no. like, no. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> So everybody would take a slightly >> So everybody would take a slightly >> So everybody would take a slightly different approach because you're like, different approach because you're like, different approach because you're like, wait a second. Should I write about the wait a second. Should I write about the wait a second. Should I write about the history? Should I write about the history? Should I write about the history? Should I write about the subjective experience? should I write subjective experience? should I write subjective experience? should I write about? Uh oh. But no matter what I do, I about? Uh oh. But no matter what I do, I about? Uh oh. But no matter what I do, I have to think about kind of structure have to think about kind of structure have to think about kind of structure and some of the points that he's made in and some of the points that he's made in and some of the points that he's made in class. class. class. And then at the end of the seminar And then at the end of the seminar And then at the end of the seminar lecture, lecture, lecture, we would share our work, right? And so we would share our work, right? And so we would share our work, right? And so we would we would actually read out loud we would we would actually read out loud we would we would actually read out loud some of our work some of our work some of our work >> after the revisions have been applied >> after the revisions have been applied >> after the revisions have been applied from him. from him. from him. >> No. So I guess I'll probably scram the >> No. So I guess I'll probably scram the >> No. So I guess I'll probably scram the chronology a little bit in the lecture. chronology a little bit in the lecture. chronology a little bit in the lecture. We would read something that has not yet We would read something that has not yet We would read something that has not yet been corrected and then subject it to been corrected and then subject it to been corrected and then subject it to peer review, peer review, peer review, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And get his comments. So there were a >> And get his comments. So there were a >> And get his comments. So there were a couple of different ingredients and he's couple of different ingredients and he's couple of different ingredients and he's taught this. He doesn't teach it any taught this. He doesn't teach it any taught this. He doesn't teach it any longer but taught it for 15 20 years longer but taught it for 15 20 years longer but taught it for 15 20 years very infrequently like once every year very infrequently like once every year very infrequently like once every year or two. So I got very lucky. So this is or two. So I got very lucky. So this is or two. So I got very lucky. So this is a very roundabout way of asking if there a very roundabout way of asking if there a very roundabout way of asking if there were like an assignment component. were like an assignment component. were like an assignment component. >> Mhm. or people are doing their own work. >> Mhm. or people are doing their own work. >> Mhm. or people are doing their own work. What are perhaps some of the things you What are perhaps some of the things you What are perhaps some of the things you would have them do? would have them do? would have them do? >> The assignment component of the class >> The assignment component of the class >> The assignment component of the class would be making the content. would be making the content. would be making the content. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I would require all of the students >> So, I would require all of the students >> So, I would require all of the students to make an account if they don't already to make an account if they don't already to make an account if they don't already have one on some platform. have one on some platform. have one on some platform. >> And at the beginning of the class, I >> And at the beginning of the class, I >> And at the beginning of the class, I would want them to set and define the would want them to set and define the would want them to set and define the type of content. I would want them to type of content. I would want them to type of content. I would want them to define why is this uniquely yours? How define why is this uniquely yours? How define why is this uniquely yours? How is this different from what other people is this different from what other people is this different from what other people have done? And then at the same time, have done? And then at the same time, have done? And then at the same time, how is this databacked by what other how is this databacked by what other how is this databacked by what other people have done? And then from there, I people have done? And then from there, I people have done? And then from there, I would require them to actually make and would require them to actually make and would require them to actually make and produce videos. If this if the purpose produce videos. If this if the purpose produce videos. If this if the purpose of the class is become a YouTuber, let's of the class is become a YouTuber, let's of the class is become a YouTuber, let's say, say, say, >> I would ask them to to make and produce >> I would ask them to to make and produce >> I would ask them to to make and produce the videos weekly and actually post them the videos weekly and actually post them the videos weekly and actually post them so that we could do some peer review of so that we could do some peer review of so that we could do some peer review of course, but then actually see how does course, but then actually see how does course, but then actually see how does it play live in the world. We would I it play live in the world. We would I it play live in the world. We would I would also want them to do data analysis would also want them to do data analysis would also want them to do data analysis at the end and try to make educated at the end and try to make educated at the end and try to make educated guesses on why it something did or guesses on why it something did or guesses on why it something did or didn't perform well and receive critique didn't perform well and receive critique didn't perform well and receive critique and feedback not just on the data and and feedback not just on the data and and feedback not just on the data and performance but specifically the work performance but specifically the work performance but specifically the work itself. Why did this introduction work itself. Why did this introduction work itself. Why did this introduction work or not work? How could the technique be or not work? How could the technique be or not work? How could the technique be improved next time? improved next time? improved next time? >> You know, I was thinking it could also >> You know, I was thinking it could also >> You know, I was thinking it could also be fun. And you'd have to have a pretty be fun. And you'd have to have a pretty be fun. And you'd have to have a pretty small class to make this work. But small class to make this work. But small class to make this work. But assuming the videos are short and assuming the videos are short and assuming the videos are short and they're doing it weekly, like have them they're doing it weekly, like have them they're doing it weekly, like have them show the videos in class and then make show the videos in class and then make show the videos in class and then make predictions like what is your predictions like what is your predictions like what is your hypothesis. You know what I mean? hypothesis. You know what I mean? hypothesis. You know what I mean? >> Like you can invest in videos. >> Like you can invest in videos. >> Like you can invest in videos. >> Yeah. And then they can choose to like >> Yeah. And then they can choose to like >> Yeah. And then they can choose to like modify the video or not based on kind of modify the video or not based on kind of modify the video or not based on kind of feedback or your thoughts or something. feedback or your thoughts or something. feedback or your thoughts or something. You obviously want to let them learn You obviously want to let them learn You obviously want to let them learn their own lessons. I think that would be their own lessons. I think that would be their own lessons. I think that would be a a good way of refining kind of the a a good way of refining kind of the a a good way of refining kind of the thinking process. thinking process. thinking process. >> Someone's got to teach this class. >> Someone's got to teach this class. >> Someone's got to teach this class. You are infinitely. You actually made You are infinitely. You actually made You are infinitely. You actually made this whole format work. So I think it's this whole format work. So I think it's this whole format work. So I think it's you you you >> only if you're a guest lecturer. >> only if you're a guest lecturer. >> only if you're a guest lecturer. >> Sure. I mean guest lectures like all the >> Sure. I mean guest lectures like all the >> Sure. I mean guest lectures like all the fun with none of the heavy lifting. So fun with none of the heavy lifting. So fun with none of the heavy lifting. So I'm I'm very much into that. I'm I'm very much into that. I'm I'm very much into that. >> I want to mention two books and I'm >> I want to mention two books and I'm >> I want to mention two books and I'm curious if if they're still relevant curious if if they're still relevant curious if if they're still relevant >> because they came up in doing research >> because they came up in doing research >> because they came up in doing research for this conversation. Radical Cander by for this conversation. Radical Cander by for this conversation. Radical Cander by Kim Scott and The Six Thinking Hats by Kim Scott and The Six Thinking Hats by Kim Scott and The Six Thinking Hats by Edward Dabono. Do either of these ring a Edward Dabono. Do either of these ring a Edward Dabono. Do either of these ring a bell? bell? bell? >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> Okay. All right. Got it. So, >> Okay. All right. Got it. So, >> Okay. All right. Got it. So, >> my boy Edward with his hats. >> my boy Edward with his hats. >> my boy Edward with his hats. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> so how did these both factor in? Because >> so how did these both factor in? Because >> so how did these both factor in? Because these were these were basically the two these were these were basically the two these were these were basically the two books that I was able to find mentioned books that I was able to find mentioned books that I was able to find mentioned by title. Some of them I think were by title. Some of them I think were by title. Some of them I think were mentioned by people you work with and mentioned by people you work with and mentioned by people you work with and not directly not directly not directly >> or maybe Garrett mentioned the mono >> or maybe Garrett mentioned the mono >> or maybe Garrett mentioned the mono hats. The six thinking hats. I don't hats. The six thinking hats. I don't hats. The six thinking hats. I don't even remember where I learned or heard even remember where I learned or heard even remember where I learned or heard of this concept or of this concept or of this concept or >> Oh, I actually think this was Jodie. >> Oh, I actually think this was Jodie. >> Oh, I actually think this was Jodie. >> This was shout out Jod therapist. >> This was shout out Jod therapist. >> This was shout out Jod therapist. >> Jody Jod puts me on all the great books. >> Jody Jod puts me on all the great books. >> Jody Jod puts me on all the great books. I was coming to her talking about just I was coming to her talking about just I was coming to her talking about just various problems I was facing and and various problems I was facing and and various problems I was facing and and she told me of this concept of the six she told me of this concept of the six she told me of this concept of the six thinking hats and effectively I'm I thinking hats and effectively I'm I thinking hats and effectively I'm I might butcher this but it is a way of might butcher this but it is a way of might butcher this but it is a way of looking at a problem by filtering only looking at a problem by filtering only looking at a problem by filtering only by thinking type. So for example, we're by thinking type. So for example, we're by thinking type. So for example, we're going to put on a yellow hat and look at going to put on a yellow hat and look at going to put on a yellow hat and look at this potential idea. And the yellow hat this potential idea. And the yellow hat this potential idea. And the yellow hat means we're only going to say things means we're only going to say things means we're only going to say things that could go well by pursuing this that could go well by pursuing this that could go well by pursuing this idea. Versus when we put on our black idea. Versus when we put on our black idea. Versus when we put on our black hat, that is we're saying all of the hat, that is we're saying all of the hat, that is we're saying all of the things that could go completely wrong. things that could go completely wrong. things that could go completely wrong. And it's six different techniques of And it's six different techniques of And it's six different techniques of being able to assess and determine if an being able to assess and determine if an being able to assess and determine if an idea is good or or how to solve a idea is good or or how to solve a idea is good or or how to solve a problem. That thinking was really problem. That thinking was really problem. That thinking was really helpful to me as someone who often prior helpful to me as someone who often prior helpful to me as someone who often prior to understanding this would immediately to understanding this would immediately to understanding this would immediately go to black hat. And this is coming from go to black hat. And this is coming from go to black hat. And this is coming from the mentality of everything's going to the mentality of everything's going to the mentality of everything's going to go wrong. I'm going to fail at go wrong. I'm going to fail at go wrong. I'm going to fail at everything. I'm a person who growing up everything. I'm a person who growing up everything. I'm a person who growing up always defaulted to black hat. No, no, always defaulted to black hat. No, no, always defaulted to black hat. No, no, no, no, no. It's not going to work. That no, no, no. It's not going to work. That no, no, no. It's not going to work. That doesn't inspire creativity. That does doesn't inspire creativity. That does doesn't inspire creativity. That does not inspire entrepreneurship. It also not inspire entrepreneurship. It also not inspire entrepreneurship. It also gives an unfair shot to an idea that gives an unfair shot to an idea that gives an unfair shot to an idea that respspun respspun respspun may provide a new idea altogether. I may provide a new idea altogether. I may provide a new idea altogether. I think this is also something I learned think this is also something I learned think this is also something I learned from a design thinking class. I I might from a design thinking class. I I might from a design thinking class. I I might be crossing my wires here, but another be crossing my wires here, but another be crossing my wires here, but another class I took at Dartmouth was design class I took at Dartmouth was design class I took at Dartmouth was design thinking where similar to your writing thinking where similar to your writing thinking where similar to your writing class, it was an engineering class where class, it was an engineering class where class, it was an engineering class where every week we would have some wacky every week we would have some wacky every week we would have some wacky assignment like the professor would give assignment like the professor would give assignment like the professor would give us each a sheet of poster board and say, us each a sheet of poster board and say, us each a sheet of poster board and say, "Next weekend you come to class, it has "Next weekend you come to class, it has "Next weekend you come to class, it has to be a chair. Turn this poster board to be a chair. Turn this poster board to be a chair. Turn this poster board into a chair that supports your body into a chair that supports your body into a chair that supports your body type. You can't use any glue, any type. You can't use any glue, any type. You can't use any glue, any scissors, any other scissors, any other scissors, any other structural components. You can make cuts structural components. You can make cuts structural components. You can make cuts to it and and shape it, but that's it. to it and and shape it, but that's it. to it and and shape it, but that's it. And it has to support your body weight. And it has to support your body weight. And it has to support your body weight. And that class taught me a ton about, And that class taught me a ton about, And that class taught me a ton about, you know, myself before that class would you know, myself before that class would you know, myself before that class would look at that and say, "Not possible. Why look at that and say, "Not possible. Why look at that and say, "Not possible. Why am I even trying it?" And he, Professor am I even trying it?" And he, Professor am I even trying it?" And he, Professor Roby really forced us to think Roby really forced us to think Roby really forced us to think critically through how could something critically through how could something critically through how could something be possible. So that uh concept of the be possible. So that uh concept of the be possible. So that uh concept of the six hats is really impactful to me. six hats is really impactful to me. six hats is really impactful to me. >> Let's pause there for a second because >> Let's pause there for a second because >> Let's pause there for a second because this book, believe it or not, was this book, believe it or not, was this book, believe it or not, was incredibly helpful to me incredibly helpful to me incredibly helpful to me >> really >> really >> really >> in my first few years of building my >> in my first few years of building my >> in my first few years of building my first business and trying to figure out first business and trying to figure out first business and trying to figure out what I might be good at. But also as a what I might be good at. But also as a what I might be good at. But also as a solo operator effectively had lots of solo operator effectively had lots of solo operator effectively had lots of contractors but as a as a solo operator contractors but as a as a solo operator contractors but as a as a solo operator for the most part for the most part for the most part effectively turning myself into a effectively turning myself into a effectively turning myself into a virtual virtual virtual board of directors with different board of directors with different board of directors with different perspectives by using these different perspectives by using these different perspectives by using these different hats because I also default to black hat hats because I also default to black hat hats because I also default to black hat which I think has its place right part which I think has its place right part which I think has its place right part of the part of the genius of this of the part of the genius of this of the part of the genius of this approach is you're not saying oh that's approach is you're not saying oh that's approach is you're not saying oh that's negative thinking saying, "Shame on you. negative thinking saying, "Shame on you. negative thinking saying, "Shame on you. Let's only look at the bright side." No, Let's only look at the bright side." No, Let's only look at the bright side." No, it's saying there's a place it's saying it's saying there's a place it's saying it's saying there's a place it's saying there's a place for that, there's a place for that, there's a place for that, >> but there's going to be a set time for >> but there's going to be a set time for >> but there's going to be a set time for it, and we're going to go through each it, and we're going to go through each it, and we're going to go through each of these six. I haven't read it in of these six. I haven't read it in of these six. I haven't read it in decades, but Edward Dabono, six thinking decades, but Edward Dabono, six thinking decades, but Edward Dabono, six thinking hats. He also had, I believe, a book hats. He also had, I believe, a book hats. He also had, I believe, a book called Lateral Thinking, which I found called Lateral Thinking, which I found called Lateral Thinking, which I found helpful. I don't know how those would helpful. I don't know how those would helpful. I don't know how those would age for me if I read them now. Right. age for me if I read them now. Right. age for me if I read them now. Right. Sometimes it's like I'm like, "Oh god, Sometimes it's like I'm like, "Oh god, Sometimes it's like I'm like, "Oh god, you haven't seen this movie I haven't you haven't seen this movie I haven't you haven't seen this movie I haven't seen in 20 years. Let's watch it." And seen in 20 years. Let's watch it." And seen in 20 years. Let's watch it." And within 10 minutes I'm like, "Oh god, within 10 minutes I'm like, "Oh god, within 10 minutes I'm like, "Oh god, this is not as good as I remember." this is not as good as I remember." this is not as good as I remember." There are definitely others like, There are definitely others like, There are definitely others like, well, it's very unPC, but Airplane and well, it's very unPC, but Airplane and well, it's very unPC, but Airplane and others that actually do age. others that actually do age. others that actually do age. >> I'm trying to remember what the other >> I'm trying to remember what the other >> I'm trying to remember what the other hats are. I haven't like looked at this hats are. I haven't like looked at this hats are. I haven't like looked at this in such a long time because I feel like in such a long time because I feel like in such a long time because I feel like we just sort of we just sort of we just sort of >> I can't recall what the specifics are. I >> I can't recall what the specifics are. I >> I can't recall what the specifics are. I mean, if I had to guess, I'm imagining mean, if I had to guess, I'm imagining mean, if I had to guess, I'm imagining one is like analytical by the numbers one is like analytical by the numbers one is like analytical by the numbers and one is like emotional. I mean, I'm and one is like emotional. I mean, I'm and one is like emotional. I mean, I'm imagining there's probably some version imagining there's probably some version imagining there's probably some version of that, of that, of that, >> but it is I it stuck out to me because I >> but it is I it stuck out to me because I >> but it is I it stuck out to me because I was like, that's really interesting that was like, that's really interesting that was like, that's really interesting that >> this book, which not a lot of people >> this book, which not a lot of people >> this book, which not a lot of people reference, reference, reference, >> actually also popped up in both of our >> actually also popped up in both of our >> actually also popped up in both of our timelines professionally. That's super timelines professionally. That's super timelines professionally. That's super interesting. All right. Radical Cander. interesting. All right. Radical Cander. interesting. All right. Radical Cander. >> Okay. Kim Scott. >> Okay. Kim Scott. >> Okay. Kim Scott. It's like Tim, Adam Grant, Kim Scott. It's like Tim, Adam Grant, Kim Scott. It's like Tim, Adam Grant, Kim Scott. These are like Mount Rushmore for me. These are like Mount Rushmore for me. These are like Mount Rushmore for me. Kim Scott, I mean, is just phenomenal. I Kim Scott, I mean, is just phenomenal. I Kim Scott, I mean, is just phenomenal. I mean, I I thought Radical Cander, and I mean, I I thought Radical Cander, and I mean, I I thought Radical Cander, and I know many of these works have been know many of these works have been know many of these works have been critiqued and refreshed in many ways, critiqued and refreshed in many ways, critiqued and refreshed in many ways, but her quad chart of how to but her quad chart of how to but her quad chart of how to provide feedback to people was really provide feedback to people was really provide feedback to people was really instrumental to me because effectively instrumental to me because effectively instrumental to me because effectively what happened was I quit my job when I what happened was I quit my job when I what happened was I quit my job when I was 23. I had never I'd never made it to was 23. I had never I'd never made it to was 23. I had never I'd never made it to a I mean at 23 like a managerial a I mean at 23 like a managerial a I mean at 23 like a managerial position in a a corporate setting. So I position in a a corporate setting. So I position in a a corporate setting. So I never had any manager training. never had any manager training. never had any manager training. >> Could you give an example of how Kim's >> Could you give an example of how Kim's >> Could you give an example of how Kim's teaching or frameworks look when applied teaching or frameworks look when applied teaching or frameworks look when applied like for an example? like for an example? like for an example? >> Yes. So Kim talks about four types of >> Yes. So Kim talks about four types of >> Yes. So Kim talks about four types of management and giving feedback to management and giving feedback to management and giving feedback to people. And the quadrant I identify with people. And the quadrant I identify with people. And the quadrant I identify with the most is ruinous empathy, which is the most is ruinous empathy, which is the most is ruinous empathy, which is the idea of you are so nice to everyone the idea of you are so nice to everyone the idea of you are so nice to everyone around you that when you need to give around you that when you need to give around you that when you need to give critical feedback to someone, they might critical feedback to someone, they might critical feedback to someone, they might leave the meeting feeling like, wait, am leave the meeting feeling like, wait, am leave the meeting feeling like, wait, am I actually doing great? I I don't know I actually doing great? I I don't know I actually doing great? I I don't know because you're sandwiching compliments because you're sandwiching compliments because you're sandwiching compliments in in or downplaying the critique and in in or downplaying the critique and in in or downplaying the critique and you're not direct enough. And so you're not direct enough. And so you're not direct enough. And so transforming that into radical cander is transforming that into radical cander is transforming that into radical cander is about being more direct with feedback. about being more direct with feedback. about being more direct with feedback. And so some of the things that Kim has And so some of the things that Kim has And so some of the things that Kim has helped me very applicably work through helped me very applicably work through helped me very applicably work through are workshopping are workshopping are workshopping giving critical feedback to people and giving critical feedback to people and giving critical feedback to people and hearing live feedback from her on cut hearing live feedback from her on cut hearing live feedback from her on cut off that sentence that's fluff you know off that sentence that's fluff you know off that sentence that's fluff you know like that is so so amazing. I think an like that is so so amazing. I think an like that is so so amazing. I think an applicable setting here or an example of applicable setting here or an example of applicable setting here or an example of this would be let's say we have a this would be let's say we have a this would be let's say we have a collaborator on set who's very very good collaborator on set who's very very good collaborator on set who's very very good at what they do but they don't at what they do but they don't at what they do but they don't compliment or uplift other people when compliment or uplift other people when compliment or uplift other people when they do a great job. they do a great job. they do a great job. >> Got it. So good good at execution maybe >> Got it. So good good at execution maybe >> Got it. So good good at execution maybe a little prickly around the edges. just a little prickly around the edges. just a little prickly around the edges. just a little prickly or internally they're a little prickly or internally they're a little prickly or internally they're thinking that person is doing a great thinking that person is doing a great thinking that person is doing a great job but they're not vocalizing it. job but they're not vocalizing it. job but they're not vocalizing it. >> I see. Got it. >> I see. Got it. >> I see. Got it. >> And so it creates an environment on set >> And so it creates an environment on set >> And so it creates an environment on set where everyone's like, "Oh, does this where everyone's like, "Oh, does this where everyone's like, "Oh, does this person not like what I'm doing?" So person not like what I'm doing?" So person not like what I'm doing?" So stepping in as a manager, the feedback, stepping in as a manager, the feedback, stepping in as a manager, the feedback, it's a tough piece of feedback because it's a tough piece of feedback because it's a tough piece of feedback because how do you say, "Dude, I just need you how do you say, "Dude, I just need you how do you say, "Dude, I just need you to go out of your way and provide to go out of your way and provide to go out of your way and provide positive feedback to people." And it can positive feedback to people." And it can positive feedback to people." And it can be as simple as that. But what Kim has be as simple as that. But what Kim has be as simple as that. But what Kim has taught me in that in in this specific taught me in that in in this specific taught me in that in in this specific situation is communication exists on two situation is communication exists on two situation is communication exists on two wavelengths. wavelengths. wavelengths. It is It is It is first of all the wavelength of first of all the wavelength of first of all the wavelength of communicating the need the the tactical communicating the need the the tactical communicating the need the the tactical information but there's another information but there's another information but there's another wavelength that's equally as important wavelength that's equally as important wavelength that's equally as important which is the emotional component. And so which is the emotional component. And so which is the emotional component. And so being able to define that with that being able to define that with that being able to define that with that person and say, "Hey, you're doing a person and say, "Hey, you're doing a person and say, "Hey, you're doing a great job communicating, but there's an great job communicating, but there's an great job communicating, but there's an emotional side you're completely missing emotional side you're completely missing emotional side you're completely missing that's actually really important to that that's actually really important to that that's actually really important to that communication communication communication was really helpful because it provided was really helpful because it provided was really helpful because it provided necessary value to that action for that necessary value to that action for that necessary value to that action for that person rather than just like, so I got person rather than just like, so I got person rather than just like, so I got to like tell people they're doing a good to like tell people they're doing a good to like tell people they're doing a good job. Like I got to take an hour out of job. Like I got to take an hour out of job. Like I got to take an hour out of my day and send nice emails." giving my day and send nice emails." giving my day and send nice emails." giving them the why as them the why as them the why as >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> This could include full-time >> This could include full-time >> This could include full-time and contractors. What is your org chart and contractors. What is your org chart and contractors. What is your org chart look like, so to speak? What does the look like, so to speak? What does the look like, so to speak? What does the team? team? team? >> Yes. I mean, I I remember reading 4-hour >> Yes. I mean, I I remember reading 4-hour >> Yes. I mean, I I remember reading 4-hour work week and and the whole virtual work week and and the whole virtual work week and and the whole virtual assistant chapter blew my mind. So, we assistant chapter blew my mind. So, we assistant chapter blew my mind. So, we do have someone in Singapore. do have someone in Singapore. do have someone in Singapore. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which is funny. Our internal team >> Which is funny. Our internal team >> Which is funny. Our internal team full-time is intentionally tight. full-time is intentionally tight. full-time is intentionally tight. >> It's seven full-time staff. So that is >> It's seven full-time staff. So that is >> It's seven full-time staff. So that is myself, Garrett who's the chief creative myself, Garrett who's the chief creative myself, Garrett who's the chief creative officer, Nick, head of production, officer, Nick, head of production, officer, Nick, head of production, three editors, three editors, three editors, and an assistant for me. and an assistant for me. and an assistant for me. But we have what I call a slinky But we have what I call a slinky But we have what I call a slinky operation where that's where it is when operation where that's where it is when operation where that's where it is when it's tight. But when we get ready to do it's tight. But when we get ready to do it's tight. But when we get ready to do a big project, it balloons up very a big project, it balloons up very a big project, it balloons up very quickly. But what's cool is all of the quickly. But what's cool is all of the quickly. But what's cool is all of the people that are on on the internal team people that are on on the internal team people that are on on the internal team are department heads. So when it's time are department heads. So when it's time are department heads. So when it's time to recreate the Mission Impossible to recreate the Mission Impossible to recreate the Mission Impossible stunt, each of us know how to staff up stunt, each of us know how to staff up stunt, each of us know how to staff up camera team of seven people, stunt team camera team of seven people, stunt team camera team of seven people, stunt team of six people, and build that out to a of six people, and build that out to a of six people, and build that out to a team of 50 who come in to do that one team of 50 who come in to do that one team of 50 who come in to do that one specific project, and then we slink you specific project, and then we slink you specific project, and then we slink you back down. and your head of production back down. and your head of production back down. and your head of production would be responsible for the like would be responsible for the like would be responsible for the like scoping and finding and hiring of those scoping and finding and hiring of those scoping and finding and hiring of those people. people. people. >> Sometimes >> Sometimes >> Sometimes also just within our entire team, we're also just within our entire team, we're also just within our entire team, we're all very connected and embedded in the all very connected and embedded in the all very connected and embedded in the industry. So the team I just mentioned industry. So the team I just mentioned industry. So the team I just mentioned is pretty much half people from the is pretty much half people from the is pretty much half people from the traditional entertainment world. Nick, traditional entertainment world. Nick, traditional entertainment world. Nick, for example, the head of production, for example, the head of production, for example, the head of production, came from working at Broadway Video came from working at Broadway Video came from working at Broadway Video under Lauren Michaels and did Taco Bell under Lauren Michaels and did Taco Bell under Lauren Michaels and did Taco Bell Super Bowl commercials. So, he Super Bowl commercials. So, he Super Bowl commercials. So, he understands feature film, high budget understands feature film, high budget understands feature film, high budget commercial world. Then people like commercial world. Then people like commercial world. Then people like myself or our editor Ryan Gonzalez, we myself or our editor Ryan Gonzalez, we myself or our editor Ryan Gonzalez, we come from the digital first world. So, come from the digital first world. So, come from the digital first world. So, our training was at a a content studio our training was at a a content studio our training was at a a content studio where it was fast output, but you know where it was fast output, but you know where it was fast output, but you know how to do everything. And so bringing how to do everything. And so bringing how to do everything. And so bringing those worlds together is a really those worlds together is a really those worlds together is a really special and cool environment special and cool environment special and cool environment intentionally set because that is intentionally set because that is intentionally set because that is exactly the midpoint I want to occupy is exactly the midpoint I want to occupy is exactly the midpoint I want to occupy is the bridge between the two worlds, the bridge between the two worlds, the bridge between the two worlds, >> right? And I'm curious how you suppose >> right? And I'm curious how you suppose >> right? And I'm curious how you suppose the sort of context behind my question the sort of context behind my question the sort of context behind my question is how you separate responsibilities in is how you separate responsibilities in is how you separate responsibilities in a sense with the understanding that on a a sense with the understanding that on a a sense with the understanding that on a small team you're going to end up small team you're going to end up small team you're going to end up wearing a lot of hats. Not to be wearing a lot of hats. Not to be wearing a lot of hats. Not to be confused with Edward Dabono, but confused with Edward Dabono, but confused with Edward Dabono, but when [ __ ] needs getting done, people are when [ __ ] needs getting done, people are when [ __ ] needs getting done, people are going to roll up their sleeves and kind going to roll up their sleeves and kind going to roll up their sleeves and kind of I imagine at that size do whatever. of I imagine at that size do whatever. of I imagine at that size do whatever. But for instance, on the you could pick But for instance, on the you could pick But for instance, on the you could pick the episode, right? So could be any the episode, right? So could be any the episode, right? So could be any episode, but where do your episode, but where do your episode, but where do your responsibilities say? How are they responsibilities say? How are they responsibilities say? How are they different from chief creative officer as different from chief creative officer as different from chief creative officer as one example? one example? one example? >> Yes. So, we have a giant spreadsheet >> Yes. So, we have a giant spreadsheet >> Yes. So, we have a giant spreadsheet called the Areas of Responsibility called the Areas of Responsibility called the Areas of Responsibility Chart, which I learned from a book Chart, which I learned from a book Chart, which I learned from a book called The Great CEO Within. Again, I'm called The Great CEO Within. Again, I'm called The Great CEO Within. Again, I'm trying to learn all this Silicon Valley trying to learn all this Silicon Valley trying to learn all this Silicon Valley management stuff on my own. I even like management stuff on my own. I even like management stuff on my own. I even like called my YouTube partner manager and I called my YouTube partner manager and I called my YouTube partner manager and I was like, "Can I please sit in on the was like, "Can I please sit in on the was like, "Can I please sit in on the YouTube corporate management training YouTube corporate management training YouTube corporate management training the next time it happens?" And she said the next time it happens?" And she said the next time it happens?" And she said I couldn't. So, I'm trying to piece meal I couldn't. So, I'm trying to piece meal I couldn't. So, I'm trying to piece meal it all for myself and learn from people it all for myself and learn from people it all for myself and learn from people like you and Kim. But in that book, it like you and Kim. But in that book, it like you and Kim. But in that book, it it details actually making a giant chart it details actually making a giant chart it details actually making a giant chart that outlines every single action that that outlines every single action that that outlines every single action that the company takes. And this can go from the company takes. And this can go from the company takes. And this can go from in our case something as big as decides in our case something as big as decides in our case something as big as decides if brand deal is worth taking if brand deal is worth taking if brand deal is worth taking all the way down to takes out the trash. all the way down to takes out the trash. all the way down to takes out the trash. >> Who is going to be doing all these >> Who is going to be doing all these >> Who is going to be doing all these things? So this this is I think hundreds things? So this this is I think hundreds things? So this this is I think hundreds of responsibilities. of responsibilities. of responsibilities. >> So what would be some just so I >> So what would be some just so I >> So what would be some just so I understand because it's not a role that understand because it's not a role that understand because it's not a role that I'm familiar with like chief creative I'm familiar with like chief creative I'm familiar with like chief creative officer. So for chief creative officer officer. So for chief creative officer officer. So for chief creative officer in this chart for Garrett that includes in this chart for Garrett that includes in this chart for Garrett that includes so Garrett Garrett's role as a whole so Garrett Garrett's role as a whole so Garrett Garrett's role as a whole within the company is to define the within the company is to define the within the company is to define the creative tone and thesis of everything creative tone and thesis of everything creative tone and thesis of everything that we do. So he is overseeing story that we do. So he is overseeing story that we do. So he is overseeing story for each of the episodes. He's directing for each of the episodes. He's directing for each of the episodes. He's directing the episodes and post. But he's also the episodes and post. But he's also the episodes and post. But he's also making sure that if we're updating our making sure that if we're updating our making sure that if we're updating our brand book or we're having our Emmys for brand book or we're having our Emmys for brand book or we're having our Emmys for your consideration event in a couple your consideration event in a couple your consideration event in a couple weeks, he is going through all of the weeks, he is going through all of the weeks, he is going through all of the marketing materials and confirming yes, marketing materials and confirming yes, marketing materials and confirming yes, this fits this fits this fits >> the tone and the style of challenge >> the tone and the style of challenge >> the tone and the style of challenge accepted. This tells one cohesive story. accepted. This tells one cohesive story. accepted. This tells one cohesive story. What we don't want is a channel or a What we don't want is a channel or a What we don't want is a channel or a show that is chaoticed show that is chaoticed show that is chaoticed or or or >> Exactly. We wanted to hit a certain >> Exactly. We wanted to hit a certain >> Exactly. We wanted to hit a certain level of quality of storytelling. So for level of quality of storytelling. So for level of quality of storytelling. So for Garrett, that means on a macro level Garrett, that means on a macro level Garrett, that means on a macro level overseeing those decisions, but also on overseeing those decisions, but also on overseeing those decisions, but also on a micro level a micro level a micro level approving edits and directing edits to approving edits and directing edits to approving edits and directing edits to make sure the stories we're telling hit make sure the stories we're telling hit make sure the stories we're telling hit that bar of excellence, too. So he's that bar of excellence, too. So he's that bar of excellence, too. So he's sort of like chief creative officer and sort of like chief creative officer and sort of like chief creative officer and chief storyteller in a way. And then chief storyteller in a way. And then chief storyteller in a way. And then head of production, what percentage of head of production, what percentage of head of production, what percentage of the time for head of production is spent the time for head of production is spent the time for head of production is spent on on on kind of in production episodes versus kind of in production episodes versus kind of in production episodes versus pre-planning beforehand and pre-planning beforehand and pre-planning beforehand and post-production, would you say? post-production, would you say? post-production, would you say? >> Oh, that's hard. I would need to ask >> Oh, that's hard. I would need to ask >> Oh, that's hard. I would need to ask Nick exactly, but Nick Nick exactly, but Nick Nick exactly, but Nick primarily spends when we greenlight an primarily spends when we greenlight an primarily spends when we greenlight an episode and it's we're we're now in episode and it's we're we're now in episode and it's we're we're now in preparation to go shoot it, a lot of his preparation to go shoot it, a lot of his preparation to go shoot it, a lot of his time is spent assembling the crew, time is spent assembling the crew, time is spent assembling the crew, getting insurance permissions. getting insurance permissions. getting insurance permissions. In the case of the seven marathons In the case of the seven marathons In the case of the seven marathons project we did where we ran seven project we did where we ran seven project we did where we ran seven marathons on all seven continents in one marathons on all seven continents in one marathons on all seven continents in one week, he was handling all the logistics week, he was handling all the logistics week, he was handling all the logistics of the local crews we were working with. of the local crews we were working with. of the local crews we were working with. We say that as we the royal we We say that as we the royal we We say that as we the royal we >> [ __ ] I mean it was it was a team effort. >> [ __ ] I mean it was it was a team effort. >> [ __ ] I mean it was it was a team effort. It was a team effort. Many people did it It was a team effort. Many people did it It was a team effort. Many people did it besides me. besides me. besides me. >> Of course there is a certain level of >> Of course there is a certain level of >> Of course there is a certain level of physical brutality. physical brutality. physical brutality. >> I I can't I did it >> I I can't I did it >> I I can't I did it >> with the help of an amazing team and >> with the help of an amazing team and >> with the help of an amazing team and he's also figuring out permissions and he's also figuring out permissions and he's also figuring out permissions and and cash flow and cash flow and cash flow >> working with our branded partners. So >> working with our branded partners. So >> working with our branded partners. So he's sort of touching many things more he's sort of touching many things more he's sort of touching many things more like including head of ops in a way I like including head of ops in a way I like including head of ops in a way I would say. So the physical operation of would say. So the physical operation of would say. So the physical operation of the company itself the company itself the company itself >> when you look >> when you look >> when you look out three or five years and I imagine out three or five years and I imagine out three or five years and I imagine you've thought about this because to the you've thought about this because to the you've thought about this because to the best I can tell you you do like planning best I can tell you you do like planning best I can tell you you do like planning uh the spreadsheets and editorial uh the spreadsheets and editorial uh the spreadsheets and editorial calendars. So I imagine that you've calendars. So I imagine that you've calendars. So I imagine that you've given this some thought, but it strikes given this some thought, but it strikes given this some thought, but it strikes me that this I mean this is a very me that this I mean this is a very me that this I mean this is a very demanding demanding demanding job that you have. job that you have. job that you have. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And the company can >> And the company can >> And the company can and the kind of strategic vision and and the kind of strategic vision and and the kind of strategic vision and where you go can go in a lot of where you go can go in a lot of where you go can go in a lot of different directions. So like three to different directions. So like three to different directions. So like three to five years from now, what would you be five years from now, what would you be five years from now, what would you be happy with in terms of what your life happy with in terms of what your life happy with in terms of what your life and the channel looks like? And maybe and the channel looks like? And maybe and the channel looks like? And maybe the channel is too constraining, but I'm the channel is too constraining, but I'm the channel is too constraining, but I'm just wondering like 3 five years out just wondering like 3 five years out just wondering like 3 five years out >> understanding a lot of things can change >> understanding a lot of things can change >> understanding a lot of things can change technologically and otherwise, but technologically and otherwise, but technologically and otherwise, but >> what does it look like? >> what does it look like? >> what does it look like? >> What does it look like? >> What does it look like? >> What does it look like? >> Yeah. You have a magic wand and you're >> Yeah. You have a magic wand and you're >> Yeah. You have a magic wand and you're like like like >> a magic wand >> a magic wand >> a magic wand >> to some extent. I want to preserve the >> to some extent. I want to preserve the >> to some extent. I want to preserve the option that it'll turn out this way. option that it'll turn out this way. option that it'll turn out this way. Bing. Ooh. It's worth noting that I'm so Bing. Ooh. It's worth noting that I'm so Bing. Ooh. It's worth noting that I'm so privileged to be happy now. privileged to be happy now. privileged to be happy now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I >> I >> I love what I do. I love how our industry love what I do. I love how our industry love what I do. I love how our industry is evolving. I love being a part of that is evolving. I love being a part of that is evolving. I love being a part of that evolution of when you hear the word evolution of when you hear the word evolution of when you hear the word content creator, what that means and the content creator, what that means and the content creator, what that means and the and the social expectation of what that and the social expectation of what that and the social expectation of what that profession is. I'm really really proud profession is. I'm really really proud profession is. I'm really really proud of and excited for the future of the of and excited for the future of the of and excited for the future of the evolution of that and the convergence evolution of that and the convergence evolution of that and the convergence specifically of traditional and digital specifically of traditional and digital specifically of traditional and digital a future for myself. First of all, I a future for myself. First of all, I a future for myself. First of all, I want to be doing this want to be doing this want to be doing this as long as I possibly can. And I look to as long as I possibly can. And I look to as long as I possibly can. And I look to people like Tom Cruz, David Blaine, Jeff people like Tom Cruz, David Blaine, Jeff people like Tom Cruz, David Blaine, Jeff Propes, again, they're in their 50s and Propes, again, they're in their 50s and Propes, again, they're in their 50s and 60s and they have just decided they're 60s and they have just decided they're 60s and they have just decided they're going to keep going. Richard Branson, he going to keep going. Richard Branson, he going to keep going. Richard Branson, he going out there. going out there. going out there. And I find that exciting and inspiring. And I find that exciting and inspiring. And I find that exciting and inspiring. And and also I I look forward to a world And and also I I look forward to a world And and also I I look forward to a world where the names of the people that I where the names of the people that I where the names of the people that I just mentioned are all men and I look just mentioned are all men and I look just mentioned are all men and I look forward to helping lengthen the list of forward to helping lengthen the list of forward to helping lengthen the list of women who have longevity in careers like women who have longevity in careers like women who have longevity in careers like this too. this too. this too. So I think a future for me external to So I think a future for me external to So I think a future for me external to the channel is participating in that the channel is participating in that the channel is participating in that bridge, supporting legacy studios and bridge, supporting legacy studios and bridge, supporting legacy studios and companies in understanding our world and companies in understanding our world and companies in understanding our world and helping burgeoning creators find helping burgeoning creators find helping burgeoning creators find inspiration and solace and a path inspiration and solace and a path inspiration and solace and a path forward in a very seemingly nebulous forward in a very seemingly nebulous forward in a very seemingly nebulous career. I love sharing with other career. I love sharing with other career. I love sharing with other creators the wins and the learnings and creators the wins and the learnings and creators the wins and the learnings and don't do what I did here. here's my don't do what I did here. here's my don't do what I did here. here's my Google Excel spreadsheet. Skip all of Google Excel spreadsheet. Skip all of Google Excel spreadsheet. Skip all of the stuff I had to learn. And so that the stuff I had to learn. And so that the stuff I had to learn. And so that mentorship component of giving mentorship component of giving mentorship component of giving trajectory and systems to younger trajectory and systems to younger trajectory and systems to younger creators is really, really important to creators is really, really important to creators is really, really important to me and something I'm passionate about. me and something I'm passionate about. me and something I'm passionate about. In addition to having to lead by example In addition to having to lead by example In addition to having to lead by example and practicing what I preach, and practicing what I preach, and practicing what I preach, >> I look forward to the next 3 to 5 years >> I look forward to the next 3 to 5 years >> I look forward to the next 3 to 5 years because I know that's the sphere of because I know that's the sphere of because I know that's the sphere of where I'm headed. Like that's where our where I'm headed. Like that's where our where I'm headed. Like that's where our arrow is headed. I don't know where the arrow is headed. I don't know where the arrow is headed. I don't know where the arrow is going to land very arrow is going to land very arrow is going to land very specifically, specifically, specifically, but I am so excited about the ride. but I am so excited about the ride. but I am so excited about the ride. >> All right, I'm going to be the detective >> All right, I'm going to be the detective >> All right, I'm going to be the detective here for a second. here for a second. here for a second. >> Oh, do you have a magnifying glass? >> Oh, do you have a magnifying glass? >> Oh, do you have a magnifying glass? >> Not in a spooky way. Well, I do have my >> Not in a spooky way. Well, I do have my >> Not in a spooky way. Well, I do have my brand new fancy spectacles, brand new fancy spectacles, brand new fancy spectacles, but part of the reason I'm asking is but part of the reason I'm asking is but part of the reason I'm asking is that that that you have to make decisions around how you have to make decisions around how you have to make decisions around how many episodes you pursue, how much they many episodes you pursue, how much they many episodes you pursue, how much they overlap, overlap, overlap, >> right? And for instance, against my >> right? And for instance, against my >> right? And for instance, against my quote unquote better financial interest, quote unquote better financial interest, quote unquote better financial interest, there was a point where there was a point where there was a point where I had decided, well, in my best I had decided, well, in my best I had decided, well, in my best interest, I I had realized pretty interest, I I had realized pretty interest, I I had realized pretty quickly, well, I make X amount per quickly, well, I make X amount per quickly, well, I make X amount per episode of the podcast, especially episode of the podcast, especially episode of the podcast, especially during like the golden era of during like the golden era of during like the golden era of 2020 COVID and like the two or three 2020 COVID and like the two or three 2020 COVID and like the two or three years that was just an absurd like years that was just an absurd like years that was just an absurd like embarrassment of riches for anyone who embarrassment of riches for anyone who embarrassment of riches for anyone who was doing something reasonably was doing something reasonably was doing something reasonably defensible. At that point, I was like, defensible. At that point, I was like, defensible. At that point, I was like, well, four is pretty easy for me to do well, four is pretty easy for me to do well, four is pretty easy for me to do per month. per month. per month. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Like, if I want to increase the annual >> Like, if I want to increase the annual >> Like, if I want to increase the annual revenue of this thing, which is very revenue of this thing, which is very revenue of this thing, which is very high profit margins, to do things with high profit margins, to do things with high profit margins, to do things with the foundation and my employees and blah the foundation and my employees and blah the foundation and my employees and blah blah blah blah blah blah, I can just do blah blah blah blah blah, I can just do blah blah blah blah blah, I can just do two more episodes a month, easy, right? two more episodes a month, easy, right? two more episodes a month, easy, right? And if I wanted to double it, I can do And if I wanted to double it, I can do And if I wanted to double it, I can do eight. There are other ways you can eight. There are other ways you can eight. There are other ways you can double it, right? And I've looked at double it, right? And I've looked at double it, right? And I've looked at those levers, too. But suffice to say, those levers, too. But suffice to say, those levers, too. But suffice to say, it was very self-evident to me at the it was very self-evident to me at the it was very self-evident to me at the time that time that time that it was going to be very easy to grow if it was going to be very easy to grow if it was going to be very easy to grow if I so wanted it to grow. So I ended up at I so wanted it to grow. So I ended up at I so wanted it to grow. So I ended up at different points doing six, seven, eight different points doing six, seven, eight different points doing six, seven, eight episodes a month or doing different episodes a month or doing different episodes a month or doing different types of batch recording. And then a few types of batch recording. And then a few types of batch recording. And then a few things happened, right? About 2 or 3 things happened, right? About 2 or 3 things happened, right? About 2 or 3 months into doing this, months into doing this, months into doing this, yes, there were more financial resources yes, there were more financial resources yes, there were more financial resources to bring to bear on like the funding to bring to bear on like the funding to bring to bear on like the funding science through the foundation and many science through the foundation and many science through the foundation and many other things. other things. other things. >> We could do fancy offsites for the team >> We could do fancy offsites for the team >> We could do fancy offsites for the team and fly to these very like far-flung fun and fly to these very like far-flung fun and fly to these very like far-flung fun exotic places. Yes, which we can still exotic places. Yes, which we can still exotic places. Yes, which we can still do. But what I started to notice is do. But what I started to notice is do. But what I started to notice is there was this very subtle energetic there was this very subtle energetic there was this very subtle energetic change. I wasn't exhausted, but I change. I wasn't exhausted, but I change. I wasn't exhausted, but I started maybe dragging my feet a little started maybe dragging my feet a little started maybe dragging my feet a little bit. I started to feel I noticed when I bit. I started to feel I noticed when I bit. I started to feel I noticed when I put a like a fine point on it that it put a like a fine point on it that it put a like a fine point on it that it was becoming a jo o in the unpleasant was becoming a jo o in the unpleasant was becoming a jo o in the unpleasant sense. Does that make sense? And it's sense. Does that make sense? And it's sense. Does that make sense? And it's very very easy for this to happen in very very easy for this to happen in very very easy for this to happen in people who have small operations that people who have small operations that people who have small operations that are not dependent on or in some cases are not dependent on or in some cases are not dependent on or in some cases like venture financing or something like like venture financing or something like like venture financing or something like that. So, and I also recognized that I that. So, and I also recognized that I that. So, and I also recognized that I could make it work, right, by in my case could make it work, right, by in my case could make it work, right, by in my case batching these episodes together. But batching these episodes together. But batching these episodes together. But when I batched them together, I didn't when I batched them together, I didn't when I batched them together, I didn't actually get to retain and study and use actually get to retain and study and use actually get to retain and study and use and apply what I was learning from these and apply what I was learning from these and apply what I was learning from these people in these conversations. people in these conversations. people in these conversations. >> That's a really fatiguing day. >> That's a really fatiguing day. >> That's a really fatiguing day. >> Yeah. Or a week, right? So, I decided >> Yeah. Or a week, right? So, I decided >> Yeah. Or a week, right? So, I decided that I would step back to four or five a that I would step back to four or five a that I would step back to four or five a month, right? month, right? month, right? And I'm in a fortunate financial And I'm in a fortunate financial And I'm in a fortunate financial position to be able to make that type of position to be able to make that type of position to be able to make that type of decision. But it was really important decision. But it was really important decision. But it was really important for not just the longevity of the for not just the longevity of the for not just the longevity of the podcast, which is now 11 years or 12 podcast, which is now 11 years or 12 podcast, which is now 11 years or 12 years, whatever it is, but my enjoyment years, whatever it is, but my enjoyment years, whatever it is, but my enjoyment of it, of it, of it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And I'm just curious how you think about >> And I'm just curious how you think about >> And I'm just curious how you think about what drives the actual work product of what drives the actual work product of what drives the actual work product of the show, right? because the show, right? because the show, right? because your priorities may change. I have no your priorities may change. I have no your priorities may change. I have no idea. Right? It's like for some people idea. Right? It's like for some people idea. Right? It's like for some people it's like if they want if they're it's like if they want if they're it's like if they want if they're thinking about a family then you have thinking about a family then you have thinking about a family then you have family consideration. You also have the family consideration. You also have the family consideration. You also have the professional professional professional motivations. You can end up getting motivations. You can end up getting motivations. You can end up getting driven by your team in some cases where driven by your team in some cases where driven by your team in some cases where it's like you want to offer them the it's like you want to offer them the it's like you want to offer them the opportunity for advancement and opportunity for advancement and opportunity for advancement and increased scope and so on, but that can increased scope and so on, but that can increased scope and so on, but that can end up steering the ship sometimes. So end up steering the ship sometimes. So end up steering the ship sometimes. So there are a lot of pitfalls that are there are a lot of pitfalls that are there are a lot of pitfalls that are hard to spot because they are gradual in hard to spot because they are gradual in hard to spot because they are gradual in terms of their onset, right? So So I'm terms of their onset, right? So So I'm terms of their onset, right? So So I'm curious how you think about like the curious how you think about like the curious how you think about like the actual work schedule, the number of actual work schedule, the number of actual work schedule, the number of episodes, the amount you take on. episodes, the amount you take on. episodes, the amount you take on. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Because I hear all the top level >> Because I hear all the top level >> Because I hear all the top level priorities, which are awesome, and the priorities, which are awesome, and the priorities, which are awesome, and the vision for three to five years. I think vision for three to five years. I think vision for three to five years. I think you can do all of those things. you can do all of those things. you can do all of those things. >> Oh, thank God. >> Oh, thank God. >> Oh, thank God. >> But >> But >> But >> tell me if you don't think it's >> tell me if you don't think it's >> tell me if you don't think it's possible. Well, I don't think it's possible. Well, I don't think it's possible. Well, I don't think it's possible if the show ends up taking on possible if the show ends up taking on possible if the show ends up taking on lots of features and obligations and lots of features and obligations and lots of features and obligations and scope creep. scope creep. scope creep. >> I agree. >> I agree. >> I agree. >> And splintering >> And splintering >> And splintering >> that just removes the time and energy >> that just removes the time and energy >> that just removes the time and energy required to do those things. required to do those things. required to do those things. >> I have a lot of empathy with what you're >> I have a lot of empathy with what you're >> I have a lot of empathy with what you're saying about, oh, I can just fit in one saying about, oh, I can just fit in one saying about, oh, I can just fit in one more recording. I can fit in one more more recording. I can fit in one more more recording. I can fit in one more shoot day. I mean, even separate of the shoot day. I mean, even separate of the shoot day. I mean, even separate of the channel, this didn't impact the channel, channel, this didn't impact the channel, channel, this didn't impact the channel, but last year I was on a plane 73 times. but last year I was on a plane 73 times. but last year I was on a plane 73 times. Maybe not that high for many of the Maybe not that high for many of the Maybe not that high for many of the guests who have been in this chair. It guests who have been in this chair. It guests who have been in this chair. It was a record for me at least. was a record for me at least. was a record for me at least. >> That's a lot of flights. >> That's a lot of flights. >> That's a lot of flights. >> It's a It was a lot of flights. >> It's a It was a lot of flights. >> It's a It was a lot of flights. And I told Kim this and she she said, And I told Kim this and she she said, And I told Kim this and she she said, "How many how many vacations did you go "How many how many vacations did you go "How many how many vacations did you go on?" And I and I couldn't answer it. You on?" And I and I couldn't answer it. You on?" And I and I couldn't answer it. You know, I could think that's a sign. And I know, I could think that's a sign. And I know, I could think that's a sign. And I I went I went on I did a couple things, I went I went on I did a couple things, I went I went on I did a couple things, but she gave me some advice at the but she gave me some advice at the but she gave me some advice at the beginning of this year. She's like, "The beginning of this year. She's like, "The beginning of this year. She's like, "The next time you're sent abroad, your next time you're sent abroad, your next time you're sent abroad, your assignment is," and I need someone to assignment is," and I need someone to assignment is," and I need someone to say your assignment is for me to take it say your assignment is for me to take it say your assignment is for me to take it seriously. Your assignment is you need seriously. Your assignment is you need seriously. Your assignment is you need to take at least 6 hours of a day. You to take at least 6 hours of a day. You to take at least 6 hours of a day. You don't have to stay an entire extra day. don't have to stay an entire extra day. don't have to stay an entire extra day. Take six hours of a day to do something Take six hours of a day to do something Take six hours of a day to do something for yourself. And I did this last week. for yourself. And I did this last week. for yourself. And I did this last week. I was in Italy for a speaking engagement I was in Italy for a speaking engagement I was in Italy for a speaking engagement and my friend Olivia and I took 6 hours and my friend Olivia and I took 6 hours and my friend Olivia and I took 6 hours and we saw the whole city and it was and we saw the whole city and it was and we saw the whole city and it was incredible. And I think that avoiding incredible. And I think that avoiding incredible. And I think that avoiding the scope creep is something we've had the scope creep is something we've had the scope creep is something we've had to be very very precise about. As you to be very very precise about. As you to be very very precise about. As you mentioned, there are so many shiny mentioned, there are so many shiny mentioned, there are so many shiny objects around. Oh, like you should just objects around. Oh, like you should just objects around. Oh, like you should just do this collab and start a merch line or do this collab and start a merch line or do this collab and start a merch line or even in our our world there's a even in our our world there's a even in our our world there's a temptation of promote this product and temptation of promote this product and temptation of promote this product and big check comes in. Well, I don't know big check comes in. Well, I don't know big check comes in. Well, I don't know if I agree with this product and maybe I if I agree with this product and maybe I if I agree with this product and maybe I I won't do it. And I think being really I won't do it. And I think being really I won't do it. And I think being really brutal about brutal about brutal about if I don't protect this, all of it falls if I don't protect this, all of it falls if I don't protect this, all of it falls apart. I don't not in a way of fragility apart. I don't not in a way of fragility apart. I don't not in a way of fragility but in a sense of if I take the brand but in a sense of if I take the brand but in a sense of if I take the brand deal for a lot of money for the thing deal for a lot of money for the thing deal for a lot of money for the thing I'm not a 100% on it fractures I'm not a 100% on it fractures I'm not a 100% on it fractures trustworthiness trustworthiness trustworthiness that as we both know is something that that as we both know is something that that as we both know is something that cannot be bought back. It's so precious cannot be bought back. It's so precious cannot be bought back. It's so precious to what we're doing. Or even the idea of to what we're doing. Or even the idea of to what we're doing. Or even the idea of we've had so many people come to us say, we've had so many people come to us say, we've had so many people come to us say, "We'll license the challenge accepted "We'll license the challenge accepted "We'll license the challenge accepted brand and we'll we'll start a kids brand and we'll we'll start a kids brand and we'll we'll start a kids channel and we'll run the whole thing channel and we'll run the whole thing channel and we'll run the whole thing for you." And these pitches sound great for you." And these pitches sound great for you." And these pitches sound great on paper when I know on paper when I know on paper when I know I'm not going to like the first few I'm not going to like the first few I'm not going to like the first few things you do. I'm going to have to get things you do. I'm going to have to get things you do. I'm going to have to get in the weeds. I'm going to have to be in the weeds. I'm going to have to be in the weeds. I'm going to have to be giving feedback. And you know what? I giving feedback. And you know what? I giving feedback. And you know what? I don't have time for that. I I have to don't have time for that. I I have to don't have time for that. I I have to remain really focused on the tip of the remain really focused on the tip of the remain really focused on the tip of the spear, which is making Challenge spear, which is making Challenge spear, which is making Challenge Accepted the best show it possibly can Accepted the best show it possibly can Accepted the best show it possibly can for all of the reasons that are for all of the reasons that are for all of the reasons that are emotionally important to me, financially emotionally important to me, financially emotionally important to me, financially important to the team, and and socially important to the team, and and socially important to the team, and and socially important to our industry. So, important to our industry. So, important to our industry. So, we've had to say no a lot, which I know we've had to say no a lot, which I know we've had to say no a lot, which I know you've been writing a lot about you've been writing a lot about you've been writing a lot about recently. Yeah. recently. Yeah. recently. Yeah. >> But the saying of no is something I'm >> But the saying of no is something I'm >> But the saying of no is something I'm still learning how to do. And I think still learning how to do. And I think still learning how to do. And I think like that has been why the show has like that has been why the show has like that has been why the show has lasted so long. I have never I'm lasted so long. I have never I'm lasted so long. I have never I'm literally knocking on wood. I don't even literally knocking on wood. I don't even literally knocking on wood. I don't even know if this is real wood. Knocking on know if this is real wood. Knocking on know if this is real wood. Knocking on wood right now. I've never experienced wood right now. I've never experienced wood right now. I've never experienced creator burnout in the way that many of creator burnout in the way that many of creator burnout in the way that many of my colleagues have. Many of my my colleagues have. Many of my my colleagues have. Many of my colleagues have had a time where they colleagues have had a time where they colleagues have had a time where they hit the wall and have to take months off hit the wall and have to take months off hit the wall and have to take months off entirely. entirely. entirely. That's never happened to me because all That's never happened to me because all That's never happened to me because all along the way, it's been a kind like a along the way, it's been a kind like a along the way, it's been a kind like a fast growth, but still slow and steady. fast growth, but still slow and steady. fast growth, but still slow and steady. You can look at the growth of our You can look at the growth of our You can look at the growth of our channel and it's it's not like I blew up channel and it's it's not like I blew up channel and it's it's not like I blew up on TikTok overnight. It it's been slow on TikTok overnight. It it's been slow on TikTok overnight. It it's been slow and steady. And for that I feel and steady. And for that I feel and steady. And for that I feel fortunate because I've had the slowness fortunate because I've had the slowness fortunate because I've had the slowness to be able to make those adjustments to to be able to make those adjustments to to be able to make those adjustments to acknowledge scope creep where I'm being acknowledge scope creep where I'm being acknowledge scope creep where I'm being asked for more things asked for more things asked for more things and still learning how to practice that and still learning how to practice that and still learning how to practice that >> better. Few thoughts pop into my head. >> better. Few thoughts pop into my head. >> better. Few thoughts pop into my head. Uh the first is that more so than with Uh the first is that more so than with Uh the first is that more so than with most I actually have most I actually have most I actually have I'm very confident that you'll figure it I'm very confident that you'll figure it I'm very confident that you'll figure it out. And I'll tell you why. The first out. And I'll tell you why. The first out. And I'll tell you why. The first the first is that not that I'm who the the first is that not that I'm who the the first is that not that I'm who the [ __ ] am I? I'm just saying I've like [ __ ] am I? I'm just saying I've like [ __ ] am I? I'm just saying I've like there have been a lot of people in that there have been a lot of people in that there have been a lot of people in that chair and I've met with a lot of chair and I've met with a lot of chair and I've met with a lot of creators and writers and so on of creators and writers and so on of creators and writers and so on of different types. Number one is that you different types. Number one is that you different types. Number one is that you have an inbuilt novelty in the format of have an inbuilt novelty in the format of have an inbuilt novelty in the format of the show. Right? So a lot of the the show. Right? So a lot of the the show. Right? So a lot of the YouTubers I run into who are just YouTubers I run into who are just YouTubers I run into who are just crashing and burning, they have a few crashing and burning, they have a few crashing and burning, they have a few things stacked against them. one, they things stacked against them. one, they things stacked against them. one, they chose something that was interesting to chose something that was interesting to chose something that was interesting to them five or 10 years ago, but it is a them five or 10 years ago, but it is a them five or 10 years ago, but it is a fairly narrow lane fairly narrow lane fairly narrow lane >> and >> and >> and at some point they get tired of being at some point they get tired of being at some point they get tired of being that person. that person. that person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or they pretended to be something in the >> Or they pretended to be something in the >> Or they pretended to be something in the beginning and they got a lot of positive beginning and they got a lot of positive beginning and they got a lot of positive feedback and they're fatigued because feedback and they're fatigued because feedback and they're fatigued because they're wearing a mask. they're wearing a mask. they're wearing a mask. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And there's more to it. There's audience >> And there's more to it. There's audience >> And there's more to it. There's audience capture issues and other things, but you capture issues and other things, but you capture issues and other things, but you have an inbuilt novelty in the nature of have an inbuilt novelty in the nature of have an inbuilt novelty in the nature of the show itself, right? the show itself, right? the show itself, right? >> Every episode, my whole life changes. >> Every episode, my whole life changes. >> Every episode, my whole life changes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right now, I'm training for Taekwondo >> Right now, I'm training for Taekwondo >> Right now, I'm training for Taekwondo Nationals. I'm going to take a flight Nationals. I'm going to take a flight Nationals. I'm going to take a flight back to LA and go to Taekwondo training back to LA and go to Taekwondo training back to LA and go to Taekwondo training for 3 hours tonight. Every day is for 3 hours tonight. Every day is for 3 hours tonight. Every day is different and varied and interesting and different and varied and interesting and different and varied and interesting and I I feel lucky that like my life changes I I feel lucky that like my life changes I I feel lucky that like my life changes frequently to adjust for that. So this frequently to adjust for that. So this frequently to adjust for that. So this is something I wanted to take a moment is something I wanted to take a moment is something I wanted to take a moment to point out because to point out because to point out because willpower, discipline, all these things, willpower, discipline, all these things, willpower, discipline, all these things, yes, they sound great. You know, I agree yes, they sound great. You know, I agree yes, they sound great. You know, I agree with a lot of folks that ultimately with a lot of folks that ultimately with a lot of folks that ultimately systems systems systems beat like certainly dreams and even beat like certainly dreams and even beat like certainly dreams and even goals. I mean, you have to have an idea goals. I mean, you have to have an idea goals. I mean, you have to have an idea of where you want to head, but inherent of where you want to head, but inherent of where you want to head, but inherent to what you chose to do, there's a kind to what you chose to do, there's a kind to what you chose to do, there's a kind of cycling and rejuvenation to it, of cycling and rejuvenation to it, of cycling and rejuvenation to it, right? So, I just wanted to highlight right? So, I just wanted to highlight right? So, I just wanted to highlight that because it's a feature of what you that because it's a feature of what you that because it's a feature of what you chose to do. chose to do. chose to do. >> It's it's not just something you have to >> It's it's not just something you have to >> It's it's not just something you have to fit in in the empty pockets with fit in in the empty pockets with fit in in the empty pockets with something that is uniform from start to something that is uniform from start to something that is uniform from start to finish, right? So, I think that's one finish, right? So, I think that's one finish, right? So, I think that's one thing I wanted to mention. And then thing I wanted to mention. And then thing I wanted to mention. And then separately, just as an anecdote, right? separately, just as an anecdote, right? separately, just as an anecdote, right? guest lecturing you mentioned. So the guest lecturing you mentioned. So the guest lecturing you mentioned. So the guest lectures at at Princeton High-Tech guest lectures at at Princeton High-Tech guest lectures at at Princeton High-Tech Entrepreneurship that that turned into Entrepreneurship that that turned into Entrepreneurship that that turned into the 4-hour work week, the notes from the 4-hour work week, the notes from the 4-hour work week, the notes from that class was based on a talk initially that class was based on a talk initially that class was based on a talk initially called drug dealing for fun and profit called drug dealing for fun and profit called drug dealing for fun and profit because my first company was sports because my first company was sports because my first company was sports nutrition. nutrition. nutrition. The through line of that lecture from The through line of that lecture from The through line of that lecture from start to finish because I was one of the start to finish because I was one of the start to finish because I was one of the few entrepreneurs few entrepreneurs few entrepreneurs my professor invited, maybe the only one my professor invited, maybe the only one my professor invited, maybe the only one who bootstrapped. Everyone else was who bootstrapped. Everyone else was who bootstrapped. Everyone else was venturebacked, right? And that's why it venturebacked, right? And that's why it venturebacked, right? And that's why it was interesting to him. was interesting to him. was interesting to him. >> So I was like, I, you know, Ed, who's Ed >> So I was like, I, you know, Ed, who's Ed >> So I was like, I, you know, Ed, who's Ed Sha, amazing guy. I've had him on the Sha, amazing guy. I've had him on the Sha, amazing guy. I've had him on the podcast. Said, I don't think I have podcast. Said, I don't think I have podcast. Said, I don't think I have anything to offer. I'm only a few years anything to offer. I'm only a few years anything to offer. I'm only a few years out of college. I'm bootstrapping this out of college. I'm bootstrapping this out of college. I'm bootstrapping this thing. It's a lot smaller than any of thing. It's a lot smaller than any of thing. It's a lot smaller than any of the other companies that get highlighted the other companies that get highlighted the other companies that get highlighted by these CEOs or taking companies by these CEOs or taking companies by these CEOs or taking companies public, etc. And he said, well, that's public, etc. And he said, well, that's public, etc. And he said, well, that's kind of the point. like you're closer to kind of the point. like you're closer to kind of the point. like you're closer to the students so they can see the students so they can see the students so they can see >> emulating or borrowing from what you're >> emulating or borrowing from what you're >> emulating or borrowing from what you're doing more easily than they can someone doing more easily than they can someone doing more easily than they can someone who's 20 years older and has taken four who's 20 years older and has taken four who's 20 years older and has taken four companies public companies public companies public >> and aligned with your throughine of >> and aligned with your throughine of >> and aligned with your throughine of owning everything you do that's really owning everything you do that's really owning everything you do that's really special yeah exactly and like there are special yeah exactly and like there are special yeah exactly and like there are times for like debt and venture and all times for like debt and venture and all times for like debt and venture and all that stuff I'm just constitutionally that stuff I'm just constitutionally that stuff I'm just constitutionally allergic to it I just I just it doesn't allergic to it I just I just it doesn't allergic to it I just I just it doesn't make me feel like safe and pleasant. So, make me feel like safe and pleasant. So, make me feel like safe and pleasant. So, I generally avoid those things. Like, I I generally avoid those things. Like, I I generally avoid those things. Like, I didn't even have a credit card until a didn't even have a credit card until a didn't even have a credit card until a few years after college because I few years after college because I few years after college because I thought foolishly that if you have no thought foolishly that if you have no thought foolishly that if you have no debt, you're going to have good credit. debt, you're going to have good credit. debt, you're going to have good credit. That's just not how it works. So, I had That's just not how it works. So, I had That's just not how it works. So, I had to get credit cards. I've never carried to get credit cards. I've never carried to get credit cards. I've never carried a balance except for like a short very a balance except for like a short very a balance except for like a short very short period. The reason I bring that up short period. The reason I bring that up short period. The reason I bring that up though is that in my class, the one it though is that in my class, the one it though is that in my class, the one it changed over time, this two times per changed over time, this two times per changed over time, this two times per year, it's guest lecture cuz I kind of year, it's guest lecture cuz I kind of year, it's guest lecture cuz I kind of followed what I was learning. The one followed what I was learning. The one followed what I was learning. The one thing that never changed was how I thing that never changed was how I thing that never changed was how I started it. And how I started it every started it. And how I started it every started it. And how I started it every time is I'd say, "How many people here time is I'd say, "How many people here time is I'd say, "How many people here want to be a salesperson?" And this is want to be a salesperson?" And this is want to be a salesperson?" And this is Princeton, right? It's in an electrical Princeton, right? It's in an electrical Princeton, right? It's in an electrical engineering, like operations, research, engineering, like operations, research, engineering, like operations, research, finance class, and no one raises their finance class, and no one raises their finance class, and no one raises their hand. They're like, "Salespeople? Yuck." hand. They're like, "Salespeople? Yuck." hand. They're like, "Salespeople? Yuck." Right? Right? Right? >> And I'm like, "Okay, how many people >> And I'm like, "Okay, how many people >> And I'm like, "Okay, how many people here want to be good at negotiating?" here want to be good at negotiating?" here want to be good at negotiating?" Every hand goes up. I'm like, "Okay, how Every hand goes up. I'm like, "Okay, how Every hand goes up. I'm like, "Okay, how many people here want to be good deal many people here want to be good deal many people here want to be good deal makers?" like almost every hand goes up. makers?" like almost every hand goes up. makers?" like almost every hand goes up. I'm like, guess what? They're all the I'm like, guess what? They're all the I'm like, guess what? They're all the same thing. same thing. same thing. >> Good news, bad news, you're all gonna >> Good news, bad news, you're all gonna >> Good news, bad news, you're all gonna have to be sales people. True. That's have to be sales people. True. That's have to be sales people. True. That's true. Whether you're selling a position, true. Whether you're selling a position, true. Whether you're selling a position, whether you're selling yourself as a whether you're selling yourself as a whether you're selling yourself as a romantic partner, whether you are trying romantic partner, whether you are trying romantic partner, whether you are trying to persuade someone to persuade someone to persuade someone >> of anything and everything, >> of anything and everything, >> of anything and everything, the skill set is the same. the skill set is the same. the skill set is the same. >> Yes. And because you have that ability >> Yes. And because you have that ability >> Yes. And because you have that ability and you've honed the ability to and you've honed the ability to and you've honed the ability to communicate communicate communicate with the cold emails and everything with the cold emails and everything with the cold emails and everything else, you have a lot of practice with else, you have a lot of practice with else, you have a lot of practice with that. And you have someone like Kim that. And you have someone like Kim that. And you have someone like Kim Scott in your corner on the honesty. Scott in your corner on the honesty. Scott in your corner on the honesty. >> You can't take it too far, but like >> You can't take it too far, but like >> You can't take it too far, but like honesty above people pleasing. honesty above people pleasing. honesty above people pleasing. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> This what did you call it? Not insidious >> This what did you call it? Not insidious >> This what did you call it? Not insidious empathy, but something close. empathy, but something close. empathy, but something close. >> Ruinous empathy. >> Ruinous empathy. >> Ruinous empathy. >> Ruinous empathy. That is where I tend to >> Ruinous empathy. That is where I tend to >> Ruinous empathy. That is where I tend to lean also or have historically. And if lean also or have historically. And if lean also or have historically. And if you are trapped in that quadrant and you you are trapped in that quadrant and you you are trapped in that quadrant and you start to see the ship heading towards start to see the ship heading towards start to see the ship heading towards this iceberg of burnout for you this iceberg of burnout for you this iceberg of burnout for you personally or overall, personally or overall, personally or overall, you're kind of [ __ ] Like that's not you're kind of [ __ ] Like that's not you're kind of [ __ ] Like that's not the time to learn how to steer the ship, the time to learn how to steer the ship, the time to learn how to steer the ship, >> which means these other quadrants, >> which means these other quadrants, >> which means these other quadrants, right? And you write about that in your right? And you write about that in your right? And you write about that in your upcoming book too about how when you say upcoming book too about how when you say upcoming book too about how when you say yes to everything, it make you become yes to everything, it make you become yes to everything, it make you become resentful towards other people when it's resentful towards other people when it's resentful towards other people when it's actually you creating the problem. actually you creating the problem. actually you creating the problem. >> I'm going to be diving back into the the >> I'm going to be diving back into the the >> I'm going to be diving back into the the it's placeholder name, but the notebook it's placeholder name, but the notebook it's placeholder name, but the notebook 850 pages that's going to get hacked 850 pages that's going to get hacked 850 pages that's going to get hacked down. It's going to be down. It's going to be down. It's going to be just as a teaser. I I'm just it makes me just as a teaser. I I'm just it makes me just as a teaser. I I'm just it makes me so happy. I literally just got a text so happy. I literally just got a text so happy. I literally just got a text about this two days ago. I've had quite about this two days ago. I've had quite about this two days ago. I've had quite a few test readers read that book and a few test readers read that book and a few test readers read that book and it's rough around the edges, but they it's rough around the edges, but they it's rough around the edges, but they read this book like six months ago, a read this book like six months ago, a read this book like six months ago, a year ago, and they text me to be like, year ago, and they text me to be like, year ago, and they text me to be like, "Look at how I am still using this "Look at how I am still using this "Look at how I am still using this stuff." So, I'm I'm excited to get it stuff." So, I'm I'm excited to get it stuff." So, I'm I'm excited to get it out cuz it's super like just we're as we out cuz it's super like just we're as we out cuz it's super like just we're as we were talking about template emails and were talking about template emails and were talking about template emails and so on. so on. so on. >> It's really tactical. It's not just >> It's really tactical. It's not just >> It's really tactical. It's not just handwavy stuff. So, I'm excited about handwavy stuff. So, I'm excited about handwavy stuff. So, I'm excited about it. The But you have the you have sort it. The But you have the you have sort it. The But you have the you have sort of the of the of the >> And I promise I'll buy it. I won't steal >> And I promise I'll buy it. I won't steal >> And I promise I'll buy it. I won't steal it on accident. I'm okay. I'm okay with it on accident. I'm okay. I'm okay with it on accident. I'm okay. I'm okay with stealing my books. Well, I mean, it's stealing my books. Well, I mean, it's stealing my books. Well, I mean, it's not okay cuz you're stealing it from not okay cuz you're stealing it from not okay cuz you're stealing it from someone else, but someone else, but someone else, but >> Correct. It was not stolen from a Barnes >> Correct. It was not stolen from a Barnes >> Correct. It was not stolen from a Barnes & Noble. It was stolen from the desk of & Noble. It was stolen from the desk of & Noble. It was stolen from the desk of a coworker. a coworker. a coworker. >> Yeah. So, I have I have confidence >> Yeah. So, I have I have confidence >> Yeah. So, I have I have confidence you'll figure it out because you have you'll figure it out because you have you'll figure it out because you have the toolkit for correction, right? And I the toolkit for correction, right? And I the toolkit for correction, right? And I think part of what a lot of folks miss think part of what a lot of folks miss think part of what a lot of folks miss about saying no. It's not like saying no about saying no. It's not like saying no about saying no. It's not like saying no is a lot like working out. It's not like is a lot like working out. It's not like is a lot like working out. It's not like you you figure it out and you do it for you you figure it out and you do it for you you figure it out and you do it for a week or two and then your problems are a week or two and then your problems are a week or two and then your problems are solved. solved. solved. >> It's a practice. >> It's a practice. >> It's a practice. >> It's a practice. not only a practice but >> It's a practice. not only a practice but >> It's a practice. not only a practice but 99.9% of the population sure there are a 99.9% of the population sure there are a 99.9% of the population sure there are a few exceptions but are going to fall off few exceptions but are going to fall off few exceptions but are going to fall off the wagon occasionally. So the question the wagon occasionally. So the question the wagon occasionally. So the question is how do you get back on the wagon is how do you get back on the wagon is how do you get back on the wagon right? So in the case of right? So in the case of right? So in the case of say a book on no like a lot of the book say a book on no like a lot of the book say a book on no like a lot of the book is case studies of people and their is case studies of people and their is case studies of people and their toolkits for renegotiating. It's like if toolkits for renegotiating. It's like if toolkits for renegotiating. It's like if you're reading the book it probably you're reading the book it probably you're reading the book it probably means you say yes to too much stuff and means you say yes to too much stuff and means you say yes to too much stuff and overcommit. overcommit. overcommit. you're probably still gonna do that. you're probably still gonna do that. you're probably still gonna do that. It's kind of like aa and alcoholics like It's kind of like aa and alcoholics like It's kind of like aa and alcoholics like right like once once an addict always an right like once once an addict always an right like once once an addict always an addict like you're probably gonna do addict like you're probably gonna do addict like you're probably gonna do that again. So the question isn't how do that again. So the question isn't how do that again. So the question isn't how do I avoid it I avoid it I avoid it >> permanently from this point forward. >> permanently from this point forward. >> permanently from this point forward. It's how do you actually correct it and It's how do you actually correct it and It's how do you actually correct it and how do you renegotiate commitments? How how do you renegotiate commitments? How how do you renegotiate commitments? How do you cancel things? do you cancel things? do you cancel things? >> Which is arguably harder than saying no >> Which is arguably harder than saying no >> Which is arguably harder than saying no out the gate once you've committed to out the gate once you've committed to out the gate once you've committed to something. something. something. >> It is it's it's it's basically signing >> It is it's it's it's basically signing >> It is it's it's it's basically signing up for long-term pain instead of up for long-term pain instead of up for long-term pain instead of short-term pain, right? But you're going short-term pain, right? But you're going short-term pain, right? But you're going to deal with both, which is why, you to deal with both, which is why, you to deal with both, which is why, you know, Kim Scott's teachings are so know, Kim Scott's teachings are so know, Kim Scott's teachings are so valuable. I have to recommend I I don't valuable. I have to recommend I I don't valuable. I have to recommend I I don't know if it was with respect to Kim know if it was with respect to Kim know if it was with respect to Kim specifically, but AJ Jacobs, who I specifically, but AJ Jacobs, who I specifically, but AJ Jacobs, who I mentioned earlier, mentioned earlier, mentioned earlier, >> I love him, >> I love him, >> I love him, >> wrote this long Esquire piece called his >> wrote this long Esquire piece called his >> wrote this long Esquire piece called his poor wife. The title of it is called I poor wife. The title of it is called I poor wife. The title of it is called I think you're fat. And it's like 30 days think you're fat. And it's like 30 days think you're fat. And it's like 30 days of experimentation with radical honesty of experimentation with radical honesty of experimentation with radical honesty or something like that. or something like that. or something like that. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And >> I saw him give a presentation last fall >> I saw him give a presentation last fall >> I saw him give a presentation last fall and he included this and he included this and he included this >> and I think your fat is like when his >> and I think your fat is like when his >> and I think your fat is like when his wife was like how do I look in this wife was like how do I look in this wife was like how do I look in this dress and also you know point is his dress and also you know point is his dress and also you know point is his wife has put up with so much with his wife has put up with so much with his wife has put up with so much with his experiments but she's like are you even experiments but she's like are you even experiments but she's like are you even listening to me and he's and he's like listening to me and he's and he's like listening to me and he's and he's like no honestly I stopped listening five no honestly I stopped listening five no honestly I stopped listening five minutes ago and I'm thinking about AB minutes ago and I'm thinking about AB minutes ago and I'm thinking about AB and C. Oh what a saint his wife is. but and C. Oh what a saint his wife is. but and C. Oh what a saint his wife is. but also makes for pretty good reading cuz also makes for pretty good reading cuz also makes for pretty good reading cuz you know everything in excess kind of you know everything in excess kind of you know everything in excess kind of becomes its opposite. becomes its opposite. becomes its opposite. >> I want to kind of talk about wishlist >> I want to kind of talk about wishlist >> I want to kind of talk about wishlist stuff because you because you never know stuff because you because you never know stuff because you because you never know who's listening to this podcast. You who's listening to this podcast. You who's listening to this podcast. You just never know. I am constantly just never know. I am constantly just never know. I am constantly surprised. surprised. surprised. >> Maybe you can give some backstory but >> Maybe you can give some backstory but >> Maybe you can give some backstory but have you met Mindy Kaling yet? have you met Mindy Kaling yet? have you met Mindy Kaling yet? >> I have not met our Lord and Savior Mindy >> I have not met our Lord and Savior Mindy >> I have not met our Lord and Savior Mindy Kaling. Kaling. Kaling. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Why did I even come across this? What? Why did I even come across this? What? Why did I even come across this? What? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> I know why you came across this. And it >> I know why you came across this. And it >> I know why you came across this. And it is because my first Twitter handle was is because my first Twitter handle was is because my first Twitter handle was Mindy Kaling fan. I think it's since Mindy Kaling fan. I think it's since Mindy Kaling fan. I think it's since changed to my name. It's normal now. I changed to my name. It's normal now. I changed to my name. It's normal now. I think I've deleted all the tweets. Maybe think I've deleted all the tweets. Maybe think I've deleted all the tweets. Maybe I would love to meet Mindy Kaling one I would love to meet Mindy Kaling one I would love to meet Mindy Kaling one day when we're talking about wishlist day when we're talking about wishlist day when we're talking about wishlist items for a few reasons. I feel like we items for a few reasons. I feel like we items for a few reasons. I feel like we have sort of have sort of have sort of traveled the same path in different traveled the same path in different traveled the same path in different flavors. flavors. flavors. >> We went to the same college. I obviously >> We went to the same college. I obviously >> We went to the same college. I obviously admire her work. We're both Indian women admire her work. We're both Indian women admire her work. We're both Indian women in entertainment. And seeing someone in entertainment. And seeing someone in entertainment. And seeing someone like her on a show like The Office was like her on a show like The Office was like her on a show like The Office was instrumental to me as someone from instrumental to me as someone from instrumental to me as someone from Shreveport, Louisiana who didn't see Shreveport, Louisiana who didn't see Shreveport, Louisiana who didn't see someone like me on Disney Channel. And I someone like me on Disney Channel. And I someone like me on Disney Channel. And I think that's why think that's why think that's why The mentality I had of approaching a job The mentality I had of approaching a job The mentality I had of approaching a job like this was so black hat, if we're like this was so black hat, if we're like this was so black hat, if we're going to go back to that, I was very going to go back to that, I was very going to go back to that, I was very negative on the idea of doing something negative on the idea of doing something negative on the idea of doing something in entertainment in entertainment in entertainment because I didn't see a path or an because I didn't see a path or an because I didn't see a path or an example forward example forward example forward for someone like me. And factually, for someone like me. And factually, for someone like me. And factually, that's incorrect. I mean there's a very that's incorrect. I mean there's a very that's incorrect. I mean there's a very thriving industry of Bollywood and there thriving industry of Bollywood and there thriving industry of Bollywood and there are many many amazing women in are many many amazing women in are many many amazing women in entertainment but something shifted for entertainment but something shifted for entertainment but something shifted for me when I saw her success and felt that me when I saw her success and felt that me when I saw her success and felt that parallel path of we're going to the same parallel path of we're going to the same parallel path of we're going to the same school and seeing how she took her school and seeing how she took her school and seeing how she took her opportunity at the office and spun it opportunity at the office and spun it opportunity at the office and spun it into her own production company and new into her own production company and new into her own production company and new shows that continued to uplift and shows that continued to uplift and shows that continued to uplift and elevate elevate elevate female centered stories I think is female centered stories I think is female centered stories I think is incredible and something that I look up incredible and something that I look up incredible and something that I look up to often when I think about how I to often when I think about how I to often when I think about how I started at a media company and am now started at a media company and am now started at a media company and am now doing my own thing and hoping to shift doing my own thing and hoping to shift doing my own thing and hoping to shift culture and expectation of what it means culture and expectation of what it means culture and expectation of what it means to be an Indian woman in entertainment to be an Indian woman in entertainment to be an Indian woman in entertainment and also what it means to be a content and also what it means to be a content and also what it means to be a content creator on the internet. I love upending creator on the internet. I love upending creator on the internet. I love upending people's expectations. It's one of my people's expectations. It's one of my people's expectations. It's one of my secret favorite things to do. I love secret favorite things to do. I love secret favorite things to do. I love when people hear that I'm a YouTuber and when people hear that I'm a YouTuber and when people hear that I'm a YouTuber and then they go watch Challenge Accepted then they go watch Challenge Accepted then they go watch Challenge Accepted and are pleasantly hopefully pleasantly and are pleasantly hopefully pleasantly and are pleasantly hopefully pleasantly surprised by what they see and wouldn't surprised by what they see and wouldn't surprised by what they see and wouldn't expect that maybe from someone on the expect that maybe from someone on the expect that maybe from someone on the platform. And I think about how she and platform. And I think about how she and platform. And I think about how she and Shondaanda Rimes and other incredible Shondaanda Rimes and other incredible Shondaanda Rimes and other incredible showrunners have done that. All right, showrunners have done that. All right, showrunners have done that. All right, Mindy, if you're listening, Mindy, if you're listening, Mindy, if you're listening, >> and there are definitely a few people >> and there are definitely a few people >> and there are definitely a few people who have been on this podcast, like BJ who have been on this podcast, like BJ who have been on this podcast, like BJ Novak, who know Mindy, so if you guys Novak, who know Mindy, so if you guys Novak, who know Mindy, so if you guys are listening, are listening, are listening, >> I'm obsessed with both of them, like as >> I'm obsessed with both of them, like as >> I'm obsessed with both of them, like as a unit. a unit. a unit. >> Yeah, BJ is incredible. >> Yeah, BJ is incredible. >> Yeah, BJ is incredible. >> BJ is also incredible. The Office, I >> BJ is also incredible. The Office, I >> BJ is also incredible. The Office, I mean, there are a few examples like mean, there are a few examples like mean, there are a few examples like this, but it's kind of like the PayPal this, but it's kind of like the PayPal this, but it's kind of like the PayPal mafia where you're like, how did all mafia where you're like, how did all mafia where you're like, how did all these people come out of this? these people come out of this? these people come out of this? >> Yeah, the PayPal mafia. How is it even >> Yeah, the PayPal mafia. How is it even >> Yeah, the PayPal mafia. How is it even possible that this density of talent was possible that this density of talent was possible that this density of talent was in one place at the same time? It's in one place at the same time? It's in one place at the same time? It's crazy. crazy. crazy. >> Let me ask a question, right? Let's just >> Let me ask a question, right? Let's just >> Let me ask a question, right? Let's just say Mindy's listening. She's like, say Mindy's listening. She's like, say Mindy's listening. She's like, "Maybe I'll check her out. "Maybe I'll check her out. "Maybe I'll check her out. >> Which episode should she start with?" >> Which episode should she start with?" >> Which episode should she start with?" >> Okay, let me think. >> Okay, let me think. >> Okay, let me think. >> And that applies more broadly to people >> And that applies more broadly to people >> And that applies more broadly to people listening, but but like where should listening, but but like where should listening, but but like where should where should where should Mindy go? where should where should Mindy go? where should where should Mindy go? >> This is a really tough question. For >> This is a really tough question. For >> This is a really tough question. For Mindy specifically, Mindy specifically, Mindy specifically, I'm going to recommend I tried Tom I'm going to recommend I tried Tom I'm going to recommend I tried Tom Cruz's Deadliest Stunt because Mindy is Cruz's Deadliest Stunt because Mindy is Cruz's Deadliest Stunt because Mindy is in the Hollywood world. And I think in the Hollywood world. And I think in the Hollywood world. And I think that's the most Hollywood episode we've that's the most Hollywood episode we've that's the most Hollywood episode we've done. It's an episode where I strapped done. It's an episode where I strapped done. It's an episode where I strapped myself to the side of a C130 to become myself to the side of a C130 to become myself to the side of a C130 to become the first person to recreate the stunt the first person to recreate the stunt the first person to recreate the stunt that Tom did for the Mission Impossible that Tom did for the Mission Impossible that Tom did for the Mission Impossible franchise. And I truly am hanging off franchise. And I truly am hanging off franchise. And I truly am hanging off the side of a plane. And what's the side of a plane. And what's the side of a plane. And what's interesting about that story is not just interesting about that story is not just interesting about that story is not just the stunt, which is cool, of course, the stunt, which is cool, of course, the stunt, which is cool, of course, but it's an amazing story of being an but it's an amazing story of being an but it's an amazing story of being an underdog. The only people who have underdog. The only people who have underdog. The only people who have accomplished this previously are accomplished this previously are accomplished this previously are literally Tom Cruz and Paramount the literally Tom Cruz and Paramount the literally Tom Cruz and Paramount the Studio. And so to come at it from our Studio. And so to come at it from our Studio. And so to come at it from our angle angle angle was me sending more crazy cold emails. was me sending more crazy cold emails. was me sending more crazy cold emails. It was calling foreign militaries at It was calling foreign militaries at It was calling foreign militaries at 3:00 in the morning asking if they would 3:00 in the morning asking if they would 3:00 in the morning asking if they would lend us a plane. Those are the phone lend us a plane. Those are the phone lend us a plane. Those are the phone calls I'm making. And additionally, when calls I'm making. And additionally, when calls I'm making. And additionally, when you're doing something that's only been you're doing something that's only been you're doing something that's only been done once before or in some cases has done once before or in some cases has done once before or in some cases has never been done before, you have to get never been done before, you have to get never been done before, you have to get really creative with the training and really creative with the training and really creative with the training and testing, which maybe you've experienced testing, which maybe you've experienced testing, which maybe you've experienced in in in all of your work too. How do in in in all of your work too. How do in in in all of your work too. How do you prepare your body to to do something you prepare your body to to do something you prepare your body to to do something like that? And it led us to training in like that? And it led us to training in like that? And it led us to training in wind tunnels. But even more wind tunnels. But even more wind tunnels. But even more interestingly, I had to go to a interestingly, I had to go to a interestingly, I had to go to a specialized optometrist who fabricated specialized optometrist who fabricated specialized optometrist who fabricated custom scaral contact lenses for me to custom scaral contact lenses for me to custom scaral contact lenses for me to wear because for this stunt you don't wear because for this stunt you don't wear because for this stunt you don't wear goggles. And so there was a wear goggles. And so there was a wear goggles. And so there was a dedicated person on set called a lens dedicated person on set called a lens dedicated person on set called a lens technician and his only job was to technician and his only job was to technician and his only job was to insert and remove these massive contact insert and remove these massive contact insert and remove these massive contact lenses that went over my eyes. Sounds so lenses that went over my eyes. Sounds so lenses that went over my eyes. Sounds so uncomfortable uncomfortable uncomfortable >> cuz when you're up there at multiund >> cuz when you're up there at multiund >> cuz when you're up there at multiund mileph winds, even just a tiny pebble mileph winds, even just a tiny pebble mileph winds, even just a tiny pebble could blind you. could blind you. could blind you. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> So I think it's a really cool story of >> So I think it's a really cool story of >> So I think it's a really cool story of being a little bit of an underdog and being a little bit of an underdog and being a little bit of an underdog and accomplishing something great in an accomplishing something great in an accomplishing something great in an unexpected way. So I hope you watch it, unexpected way. So I hope you watch it, unexpected way. So I hope you watch it, Mindy. Mindy. Mindy. >> Amazing. All right, this is going to >> Amazing. All right, this is going to >> Amazing. All right, this is going to sound it's a nonsequittor/sequittor, sound it's a nonsequittor/sequittor, sound it's a nonsequittor/sequittor, but people should study take a look at but people should study take a look at but people should study take a look at paragan falcons and how their eyes and paragan falcons and how their eyes and paragan falcons and how their eyes and noses and nostrils are evolved. It's noses and nostrils are evolved. It's noses and nostrils are evolved. It's [ __ ] wild. And aircraft have actually [ __ ] wild. And aircraft have actually [ __ ] wild. And aircraft have actually been designed based on paragan falcon, been designed based on paragan falcon, been designed based on paragan falcon, like evolved. like evolved. like evolved. >> Why do I feel like you've spent a week >> Why do I feel like you've spent a week >> Why do I feel like you've spent a week in Mongolia training falconry? in Mongolia training falconry? in Mongolia training falconry? >> I would love to do that. I had my first >> I would love to do that. I had my first >> I would love to do that. I had my first experience with falconry on New Year's experience with falconry on New Year's experience with falconry on New Year's Day this year, so it's fresh in my mind. Day this year, so it's fresh in my mind. Day this year, so it's fresh in my mind. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Got to work with some amazing hawks. >> Got to work with some amazing hawks. >> Got to work with some amazing hawks. There are different different birds that There are different different birds that There are different different birds that are appropriate for different levels of are appropriate for different levels of are appropriate for different levels of training, and it's not necessarily the training, and it's not necessarily the training, and it's not necessarily the easiest bird. In some cases, they're easiest bird. In some cases, they're easiest bird. In some cases, they're going to give you slightly more stubborn going to give you slightly more stubborn going to give you slightly more stubborn or difficult birds because if you have a or difficult birds because if you have a or difficult birds because if you have a very easy bird, you don't actually very easy bird, you don't actually very easy bird, you don't actually develop the trainer technique that you develop the trainer technique that you develop the trainer technique that you need to use for a spectrum of birds. It need to use for a spectrum of birds. It need to use for a spectrum of birds. It would be kind of like giving if you give would be kind of like giving if you give would be kind of like giving if you give everyone a really intrinsically everyone a really intrinsically everyone a really intrinsically motivated high energy dog like a Belgian motivated high energy dog like a Belgian motivated high energy dog like a Belgian Malininoa to train that is like bred for Malininoa to train that is like bred for Malininoa to train that is like bred for being very very very very trainable. being very very very very trainable. being very very very very trainable. You're going to develop a false sense of You're going to develop a false sense of You're going to develop a false sense of confidence around your ability to do confidence around your ability to do confidence around your ability to do that with other breeds. that with other breeds. that with other breeds. >> I see. >> I see. >> I see. >> So yes, I'm interested in falconry. >> So yes, I'm interested in falconry. >> So yes, I'm interested in falconry. >> Have you seen that meme that went viral >> Have you seen that meme that went viral >> Have you seen that meme that went viral recently that's like you hit a certain recently that's like you hit a certain recently that's like you hit a certain age and all of a sudden you're obsessed age and all of a sudden you're obsessed age and all of a sudden you're obsessed with birds? with birds? with birds? That's really funny. I Maybe that's That's really funny. I Maybe that's That's really funny. I Maybe that's what's going on. Next thing you know, I what's going on. Next thing you know, I what's going on. Next thing you know, I was just like smoking a pipe on a porch was just like smoking a pipe on a porch was just like smoking a pipe on a porch talking about World War II all the time. talking about World War II all the time. talking about World War II all the time. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> It could future. Worst things could >> It could future. Worst things could >> It could future. Worst things could happen. All right. I want to ask more happen. All right. I want to ask more happen. All right. I want to ask more episode questions. But before we do episode questions. But before we do episode questions. But before we do that, any anyone else that you'd like to that, any anyone else that you'd like to that, any anyone else that you'd like to sort of invoke? Like are there any other sort of invoke? Like are there any other sort of invoke? Like are there any other >> partners, partners, companies, people? >> partners, partners, companies, people? >> partners, partners, companies, people? >> Anything that you'd like to check out >> Anything that you'd like to check out >> Anything that you'd like to check out your work? This is such a special your work? This is such a special your work? This is such a special opportunity to do that. There are many opportunity to do that. There are many opportunity to do that. There are many people I would love to meet and people I would love to meet and people I would love to meet and generally as we move into this really generally as we move into this really generally as we move into this really exciting new chapter for the company and exciting new chapter for the company and exciting new chapter for the company and and content creators in general. I'm and content creators in general. I'm and content creators in general. I'm excited to meet with anyone from excited to meet with anyone from excited to meet with anyone from traditional media who is excited to join traditional media who is excited to join traditional media who is excited to join forces. forces. forces. >> So that's just like a general statement. >> So that's just like a general statement. >> So that's just like a general statement. >> But if I have one shout out, here's the >> But if I have one shout out, here's the >> But if I have one shout out, here's the shout out. I'm gonna ask for the Royal shout out. I'm gonna ask for the Royal shout out. I'm gonna ask for the Royal Nanny School in England. Nanny School in England. Nanny School in England. >> You've been working you've been working >> You've been working you've been working >> You've been working you've been working on this one for a while. on this one for a while. on this one for a while. >> The Norland College. We're your biggest >> The Norland College. We're your biggest >> The Norland College. We're your biggest fans. We've been wanting to collaborate fans. We've been wanting to collaborate fans. We've been wanting to collaborate for years. If you see this, hit me up. for years. If you see this, hit me up. for years. If you see this, hit me up. >> Incredible. >> Incredible. >> Incredible. >> Okay, let me tell you about the Norland >> Okay, let me tell you about the Norland >> Okay, let me tell you about the Norland Nannies. You're going to appreciate Nannies. You're going to appreciate Nannies. You're going to appreciate this, Tim. this, Tim. this, Tim. >> I'm ready. >> I'm ready. >> I'm ready. >> You know Mary Poppins, the silhouette >> You know Mary Poppins, the silhouette >> You know Mary Poppins, the silhouette with the the pleated skirt and the with the the pleated skirt and the with the the pleated skirt and the little hat. It is based off of a real little hat. It is based off of a real little hat. It is based off of a real school called the Norland College where school called the Norland College where school called the Norland College where these are the nannies that are trained these are the nannies that are trained these are the nannies that are trained to serve billionaires and royal to serve billionaires and royal to serve billionaires and royal families. So when you look at and they families. So when you look at and they families. So when you look at and they wear that outfit. So you look at footage wear that outfit. So you look at footage wear that outfit. So you look at footage from this school and it's literally from this school and it's literally from this school and it's literally they're wearing this outfit and hat they're wearing this outfit and hat they're wearing this outfit and hat pushing a pram stroller while also pushing a pram stroller while also pushing a pram stroller while also wielding a gun because they they have to wielding a gun because they they have to wielding a gun because they they have to protect the kids. So they know defensive protect the kids. So they know defensive protect the kids. So they know defensive driving. It's like Secret Service meets driving. It's like Secret Service meets driving. It's like Secret Service meets Butler Academy, which you shouted out in Butler Academy, which you shouted out in Butler Academy, which you shouted out in the Five Bullet Friday. So, it's it's the Five Bullet Friday. So, it's it's the Five Bullet Friday. So, it's it's two amazing worlds coming together. I two amazing worlds coming together. I two amazing worlds coming together. I think more people need to know about it. think more people need to know about it. think more people need to know about it. So, I'm I'm very passionate about it. So, I'm I'm very passionate about it. So, I'm I'm very passionate about it. >> And I imagine the fact that they're >> And I imagine the fact that they're >> And I imagine the fact that they're like, "No, thank you. We don't need like, "No, thank you. We don't need like, "No, thank you. We don't need that." Makes you just want it that much that." Makes you just want it that much that." Makes you just want it that much more. more. more. >> Of course it does, Tim. But also, >> Of course it does, Tim. But also, >> Of course it does, Tim. But also, >> I respect it. >> I respect it. >> I respect it. >> What What have we been talking about? >> What What have we been talking about? >> What What have we been talking about? Saying no. So, I have to respect when Saying no. So, I have to respect when Saying no. So, I have to respect when someone else says no, too. But also just someone else says no, too. But also just someone else says no, too. But also just letting you know we're still available, letting you know we're still available, letting you know we're still available, still interested and excited. Love you still interested and excited. Love you still interested and excited. Love you guys from afar. Big fan guys from afar. Big fan guys from afar. Big fan >> of your episodes when you look back. >> of your episodes when you look back. >> of your episodes when you look back. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And you can't say all of them. That's >> And you can't say all of them. That's >> And you can't say all of them. That's disallowed. That answer is no. No, no disallowed. That answer is no. No, no disallowed. That answer is no. No, no good. good. good. >> No fly. >> No fly. >> No fly. >> Which if you were starting, if you did >> Which if you were starting, if you did >> Which if you were starting, if you did not have a YouTube channel, but you had not have a YouTube channel, but you had not have a YouTube channel, but you had a thriving career, so you had some a thriving career, so you had some a thriving career, so you had some money. Which of those you can like pick money. Which of those you can like pick money. Which of those you can like pick two or three of the experiences that you two or three of the experiences that you two or three of the experiences that you would pay to have looking back would pay to have looking back would pay to have looking back >> that I would do again in a heartbeat? >> that I would do again in a heartbeat? >> that I would do again in a heartbeat? >> Do again. Or you're like, "Okay, I only >> Do again. Or you're like, "Okay, I only >> Do again. Or you're like, "Okay, I only get to pick two or three, get to pick two or three, get to pick two or three, >> but like I would absolutely pay for >> but like I would absolutely pay for >> but like I would absolutely pay for these." these." these." >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> If I if I had to, >> If I if I had to, >> If I if I had to, >> I would pick first of all >> I would pick first of all >> I would pick first of all the black belt challenge. So, as this the black belt challenge. So, as this the black belt challenge. So, as this video, I had 90 days to try and get a video, I had 90 days to try and get a video, I had 90 days to try and get a black belt in Taekwondo. Part of this black belt in Taekwondo. Part of this black belt in Taekwondo. Part of this came from a personal passion of having came from a personal passion of having came from a personal passion of having done all of these stunts and working done all of these stunts and working done all of these stunts and working with a lot of stunt performers. All of with a lot of stunt performers. All of with a lot of stunt performers. All of them come from worldclass martial arts them come from worldclass martial arts them come from worldclass martial arts backgrounds. And I realized I had never backgrounds. And I realized I had never backgrounds. And I realized I had never actually taken the time to learn a actually taken the time to learn a actually taken the time to learn a martial art from the ground up and that martial art from the ground up and that martial art from the ground up and that it was lacking in my performance and it was lacking in my performance and it was lacking in my performance and mental fortitude and I wanted to mental fortitude and I wanted to mental fortitude and I wanted to experience that. So what do I do? I make experience that. So what do I do? I make experience that. So what do I do? I make it a challenge so that I can devote my it a challenge so that I can devote my it a challenge so that I can devote my whole life to it. whole life to it. whole life to it. >> And that experience changed me. When I >> And that experience changed me. When I >> And that experience changed me. When I look at clear before and after, look at clear before and after, look at clear before and after, you know, from having put your body you know, from having put your body you know, from having put your body through a lot, there are moments when through a lot, there are moments when through a lot, there are moments when you have a photo before and after. My you have a photo before and after. My you have a photo before and after. My body changed. But there are moments in body changed. But there are moments in body changed. But there are moments in life when you as a person change before life when you as a person change before life when you as a person change before and after, and that can't be captured by and after, and that can't be captured by and after, and that can't be captured by a photo always. a photo always. a photo always. >> That was one of those for me. getting to >> That was one of those for me. getting to >> That was one of those for me. getting to study with master Grandmaster Simon Ray, study with master Grandmaster Simon Ray, study with master Grandmaster Simon Ray, one of the greatest martial artists on one of the greatest martial artists on one of the greatest martial artists on planet Earth, took me under his wing and planet Earth, took me under his wing and planet Earth, took me under his wing and did what most instructors would have did what most instructors would have did what most instructors would have never done, which is believe in me and never done, which is believe in me and never done, which is believe in me and push me to try and actually get a black push me to try and actually get a black push me to try and actually get a black belt in 90 days. And we're talking about belt in 90 days. And we're talking about belt in 90 days. And we're talking about politeness. I think martial arts has politeness. I think martial arts has politeness. I think martial arts has taught me all of that. when you bow to taught me all of that. when you bow to taught me all of that. when you bow to the mat before you step on when you yes the mat before you step on when you yes the mat before you step on when you yes sir yes ma'am everything it might sound sir yes ma'am everything it might sound sir yes ma'am everything it might sound gimmicky to someone on the outside but gimmicky to someone on the outside but gimmicky to someone on the outside but it does become a practice and an it does become a practice and an it does become a practice and an automation and a way of life and that's automation and a way of life and that's automation and a way of life and that's something I'm really proud of as a now something I'm really proud of as a now something I'm really proud of as a now black belt black belt black belt and grateful for it I I would pay to do and grateful for it I I would pay to do and grateful for it I I would pay to do that again and in fact I am because that again and in fact I am because that again and in fact I am because we're doing a sequel so I am paying to we're doing a sequel so I am paying to we're doing a sequel so I am paying to do it again and I'm trying to qualify do it again and I'm trying to qualify do it again and I'm trying to qualify for nationals this year with Mastery so for nationals this year with Mastery so for nationals this year with Mastery so I'm I'm very excited about it. I would I'm I'm very excited about it. I would I'm I'm very excited about it. I would recommend it to anybody. The other one I recommend it to anybody. The other one I recommend it to anybody. The other one I was going to say that I would pay to do was going to say that I would pay to do was going to say that I would pay to do again for the experience I had again for the experience I had again for the experience I had ultimately, not when I was going through ultimately, not when I was going through ultimately, not when I was going through it, is the Houdini challenge. it, is the Houdini challenge. it, is the Houdini challenge. >> Yeah. So for that I had six weeks to >> Yeah. So for that I had six weeks to >> Yeah. So for that I had six weeks to learn how to hold my breath and pick learn how to hold my breath and pick learn how to hold my breath and pick locks to attempt Houdini's water torture locks to attempt Houdini's water torture locks to attempt Houdini's water torture cell which famously is hanging upside cell which famously is hanging upside cell which famously is hanging upside down in a glass box filled to the brim down in a glass box filled to the brim down in a glass box filled to the brim with water escaping a series of with water escaping a series of with water escaping a series of lockpicks with one breath of air. And lockpicks with one breath of air. And lockpicks with one breath of air. And that I would say is probably that I would say is probably that I would say is probably among the most physically challenging among the most physically challenging among the most physically challenging >> I'm sure >> I'm sure >> I'm sure >> challenges I've done. Free diving, >> challenges I've done. Free diving, >> challenges I've done. Free diving, breath holding is a level of athleticism breath holding is a level of athleticism breath holding is a level of athleticism that is so bizarre to me because when that is so bizarre to me because when that is so bizarre to me because when you're in a workout class and it gets you're in a workout class and it gets you're in a workout class and it gets hard, they say, "Keep breathing. This is hard, they say, "Keep breathing. This is hard, they say, "Keep breathing. This is the one time you can't do that." the one time you can't do that." the one time you can't do that." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You're you're holding your breath. So, I >> You're you're holding your breath. So, I >> You're you're holding your breath. So, I was having to learn how to push through was having to learn how to push through was having to learn how to push through that. that. that. >> Ultimately, I got to 3:30 and most Navy >> Ultimately, I got to 3:30 and most Navy >> Ultimately, I got to 3:30 and most Navy Seals is like 2 3 minutes is pretty Seals is like 2 3 minutes is pretty Seals is like 2 3 minutes is pretty good. Houdini's was best time was also good. Houdini's was best time was also good. Houdini's was best time was also 3:30. 3:30. 3:30. But on the production side, it was a But on the production side, it was a But on the production side, it was a really fascinating challenge because it really fascinating challenge because it really fascinating challenge because it was the first time we was the first time we was the first time we creatively designed our own obstacle and creatively designed our own obstacle and creatively designed our own obstacle and solution. So in the beginning, we spent solution. So in the beginning, we spent solution. So in the beginning, we spent months trying to connect with other months trying to connect with other months trying to connect with other magicians on earth who own a water magicians on earth who own a water magicians on earth who own a water torture cell. There are not many. torture cell. There are not many. torture cell. There are not many. >> Yeah. And ultimately we came to the >> Yeah. And ultimately we came to the >> Yeah. And ultimately we came to the conclusion of designing our own which conclusion of designing our own which conclusion of designing our own which was really really incredible and was really really incredible and was really really incredible and creatively challenging. How do you creatively challenging. How do you creatively challenging. How do you create a glass box that can f be filled create a glass box that can f be filled create a glass box that can f be filled with so many gallons of water and with so many gallons of water and with so many gallons of water and maintain the structural integrity when maintain the structural integrity when maintain the structural integrity when there's a person inside there's a person inside there's a person inside and function with all the locks and the and function with all the locks and the and function with all the locks and the hinges with water as an involved hinges with water as an involved hinges with water as an involved substance. It was a huge huge substance. It was a huge huge substance. It was a huge huge engineering challenge for our team engineering challenge for our team engineering challenge for our team and I'm really really proud of the final and I'm really really proud of the final and I'm really really proud of the final result because both of those things are result because both of those things are result because both of those things are things I would have never guessed that things I would have never guessed that things I would have never guessed that like 2016 me would have been able to do. like 2016 me would have been able to do. like 2016 me would have been able to do. First of all, holding my breath that First of all, holding my breath that First of all, holding my breath that long. Second of all, taking the creative long. Second of all, taking the creative long. Second of all, taking the creative liberty to design something that was liberty to design something that was liberty to design something that was inspired by a work of history but also inspired by a work of history but also inspired by a work of history but also our own. our own. our own. >> Next question. So this one you may not >> Next question. So this one you may not >> Next question. So this one you may not want to answer. Okay. Because I want to answer. Okay. Because I want to answer. Okay. Because I understand understand understand >> I would understand why. I have a little >> I would understand why. I have a little >> I would understand why. I have a little bit more freedom in answering this for bit more freedom in answering this for bit more freedom in answering this for myself. So I can also go first and buy myself. So I can also go first and buy myself. So I can also go first and buy >> challenge accepted. Let's hear it. >> challenge accepted. Let's hear it. >> challenge accepted. Let's hear it. >> Yeah. So which one would you pay not to >> Yeah. So which one would you pay not to >> Yeah. So which one would you pay not to do again? do again? do again? >> Oh gosh. >> Oh gosh. >> Oh gosh. >> One or two. And and the one I would say >> One or two. And and the one I would say >> One or two. And and the one I would say for me just to offer it up is and holy for me just to offer it up is and holy for me just to offer it up is and holy [ __ ] did did I make a mistake. This was [ __ ] did did I make a mistake. This was [ __ ] did did I make a mistake. This was episode one of the Tim Ferrris episode one of the Tim Ferrris episode one of the Tim Ferrris experiment in terms of filming. experiment in terms of filming. experiment in terms of filming. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And we keep in mind we had I think it >> And we keep in mind we had I think it >> And we keep in mind we had I think it was 11 or 13 episodes or 10 or 13 was 11 or 13 episodes or 10 or 13 was 11 or 13 episodes or 10 or 13 episodes that we filmed in that number episodes that we filmed in that number episodes that we filmed in that number of weeks. So I mean it was every week we of weeks. So I mean it was every week we of weeks. So I mean it was every week we were filming. were filming. were filming. >> As a viewer I never realized that it was >> As a viewer I never realized that it was >> As a viewer I never realized that it was 13 consecutive weeks. 13 consecutive weeks. 13 consecutive weeks. >> It was consecutive weeks. >> It was consecutive weeks. >> It was consecutive weeks. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> And the first one was parkour. And there >> And the first one was parkour. And there >> And the first one was parkour. And there were a couple of inherent problems with were a couple of inherent problems with were a couple of inherent problems with that. Number one, even if you tried to that. Number one, even if you tried to that. Number one, even if you tried to prepare your body for it, the impact of prepare your body for it, the impact of prepare your body for it, the impact of falling onto hard surfaces is very hard falling onto hard surfaces is very hard falling onto hard surfaces is very hard to train your body for even over the to train your body for even over the to train your body for even over the course of say a year with proper course of say a year with proper course of say a year with proper technique because of the the connective technique because of the the connective technique because of the the connective tissue adaptations and sort of ligament tissue adaptations and sort of ligament tissue adaptations and sort of ligament and tendon adaptations that need to take and tendon adaptations that need to take and tendon adaptations that need to take place which require quite a bit of time. place which require quite a bit of time. place which require quite a bit of time. Secondly, Secondly, Secondly, the promise of the show was I haven't the promise of the show was I haven't the promise of the show was I haven't cheated, right? So, it's like I can't cheated, right? So, it's like I can't cheated, right? So, it's like I can't pre-prepare for it pre-prepare for it pre-prepare for it >> if I'm showing what it's like to start >> if I'm showing what it's like to start >> if I'm showing what it's like to start from zero. And I am still contending from zero. And I am still contending from zero. And I am still contending with injuries from that week. with injuries from that week. with injuries from that week. >> No way. >> No way. >> No way. >> To this day. >> To this day. >> To this day. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> You know, 12 13 years. >> You know, 12 13 years. >> You know, 12 13 years. >> Tempest, right? Tempest. >> Tempest, right? Tempest. >> Tempest, right? Tempest. >> Amazing gym. I mean, I mean, those guys >> Amazing gym. I mean, I mean, those guys >> Amazing gym. I mean, I mean, those guys are amazing. Tempest free running. Check are amazing. Tempest free running. Check are amazing. Tempest free running. Check it out. It's incredible. But I will say it out. It's incredible. But I will say it out. It's incredible. But I will say I have like dropped from the monkey bars I have like dropped from the monkey bars I have like dropped from the monkey bars and pull my back. and pull my back. and pull my back. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's crazy. >> it's crazy. >> it's crazy. >> Yeah, I mean I ended up tearing multiple >> Yeah, I mean I ended up tearing multiple >> Yeah, I mean I ended up tearing multiple heads of the quadricep in both legs heads of the quadricep in both legs heads of the quadricep in both legs >> and then you continued filming for 12 >> and then you continued filming for 12 >> and then you continued filming for 12 weeks. weeks. weeks. >> 12 more weeks. So you can imagine >> 12 more weeks. So you can imagine >> 12 more weeks. So you can imagine >> and that included the Yabusami episode. >> and that included the Yabusami episode. >> and that included the Yabusami episode. >> No, the Yabusami episode was actually >> No, the Yabusami episode was actually >> No, the Yabusami episode was actually from a totally different TV show, from a totally different TV show, from a totally different TV show, >> a pilot of which was filmed right after >> a pilot of which was filmed right after >> a pilot of which was filmed right after the first book came out. It might have the first book came out. It might have the first book came out. It might have even been before. I think it was right even been before. I think it was right even been before. I think it was right after the first book came out. So that after the first book came out. So that after the first book came out. So that was a completely separate thing with was a completely separate thing with was a completely separate thing with like a production company in Singapore. like a production company in Singapore. like a production company in Singapore. It was kind of wonky to be honest. It was kind of wonky to be honest. It was kind of wonky to be honest. >> Oh wow. >> Oh wow. >> Oh wow. >> But the Abusam was way earlier back when >> But the Abusam was way earlier back when >> But the Abusam was way earlier back when I had hair or a little bit of hair. I I had hair or a little bit of hair. I I had hair or a little bit of hair. I was white knuckling. was white knuckling. was white knuckling. >> Okay. Cuz all of my experience >> Okay. Cuz all of my experience >> Okay. Cuz all of my experience transparently of the show has been in transparently of the show has been in transparently of the show has been in like online rips cuz it's many of this like online rips cuz it's many of this like online rips cuz it's many of this material is no longer available. all of material is no longer available. all of material is no longer available. all of the Tim Fresh Experiment stuff. I got the Tim Fresh Experiment stuff. I got the Tim Fresh Experiment stuff. I got the rights back for a launch on iTunes the rights back for a launch on iTunes the rights back for a launch on iTunes as it was called back then and it was as it was called back then and it was as it was called back then and it was the number one non-fiction show when it the number one non-fiction show when it the number one non-fiction show when it launched for a while which I was very launched for a while which I was very launched for a while which I was very happy about although it was excruciating happy about although it was excruciating happy about although it was excruciating you can imagine talking about you can imagine talking about you can imagine talking about negotiating with like a big behemoth negotiating with like a big behemoth negotiating with like a big behemoth where you just don't really have any where you just don't really have any where you just don't really have any leverage whatsoever. Uh yeah, leverage whatsoever. Uh yeah, leverage whatsoever. Uh yeah, >> and they were helpful, but a lot of >> and they were helpful, but a lot of >> and they were helpful, but a lot of employee changes and so on that made it employee changes and so on that made it employee changes and so on that made it difficult and then ultimately getting difficult and then ultimately getting difficult and then ultimately getting the rights back completely so I could the rights back completely so I could the rights back completely so I could just release it for free on YouTube, just release it for free on YouTube, just release it for free on YouTube, right? right? right? >> But which would you pay not to do? Any >> But which would you pay not to do? Any >> But which would you pay not to do? Any come to mind? come to mind? come to mind? >> What would I pay not to do? I have a few >> What would I pay not to do? I have a few >> What would I pay not to do? I have a few answers for this actually. First one is answers for this actually. First one is answers for this actually. First one is chess. And again, I I recognize the chess. And again, I I recognize the chess. And again, I I recognize the people who have sadness here. I feel people who have sadness here. I feel people who have sadness here. I feel like 99.9% like 99.9% like 99.9% of of people in the Tim Ferris sphere, of of people in the Tim Ferris sphere, of of people in the Tim Ferris sphere, everybody plays chess. Everybody is on everybody plays chess. Everybody is on everybody plays chess. Everybody is on chess.com. When you go to these chess.com. When you go to these chess.com. When you go to these entrepreneur events, there's always a entrepreneur events, there's always a entrepreneur events, there's always a chess board. Everyone loves chess. So, I chess board. Everyone loves chess. So, I chess board. Everyone loves chess. So, I feel a little shameful saying this. feel a little shameful saying this. feel a little shameful saying this. Chess was very challenging for me. Chess was very challenging for me. Chess was very challenging for me. >> There are plenty of people on this show >> There are plenty of people on this show >> There are plenty of people on this show who don't like chess, including people who don't like chess, including people who don't like chess, including people who used to be professional players. who used to be professional players. who used to be professional players. >> Really? Oh my goodness. Now, I loved >> Really? Oh my goodness. Now, I loved >> Really? Oh my goodness. Now, I loved many aspects of it, but the the many aspects of it, but the the many aspects of it, but the the challenge for that was originally I had challenge for that was originally I had challenge for that was originally I had one month to prepare for a competition one month to prepare for a competition one month to prepare for a competition and I did the month of training. I got and I did the month of training. I got and I did the month of training. I got to the competition. I didn't do as well to the competition. I didn't do as well to the competition. I didn't do as well as I had wanted. And something about the as I had wanted. And something about the as I had wanted. And something about the episode just felt empty. And I think you episode just felt empty. And I think you episode just felt empty. And I think you and I both know this. You know, when you and I both know this. You know, when you and I both know this. You know, when you haven't gone the distance with haven't gone the distance with haven't gone the distance with something, you haven't given it your something, you haven't given it your something, you haven't given it your all. And I knew that deep down. So, I all. And I knew that deep down. So, I all. And I knew that deep down. So, I continued training for nine more months, continued training for nine more months, continued training for nine more months, 10 months in total, I believe, to 10 months in total, I believe, to 10 months in total, I believe, to achieve this goal of my ELO rating and achieve this goal of my ELO rating and achieve this goal of my ELO rating and finally did it. And I was like, I'm finally did it. And I was like, I'm finally did it. And I was like, I'm good. I am so good on the London system, good. I am so good on the London system, good. I am so good on the London system, all this stuff. Like, I was studying so all this stuff. Like, I was studying so all this stuff. Like, I was studying so hard and I'm so glad I did it. But I'm hard and I'm so glad I did it. But I'm hard and I'm so glad I did it. But I'm good to be a casual chess player. good to be a casual chess player. good to be a casual chess player. >> Good to be a casual chess player. I >> Good to be a casual chess player. I >> Good to be a casual chess player. I think the other one I don't think I'll think the other one I don't think I'll think the other one I don't think I'll do again is one that hasn't come out do again is one that hasn't come out do again is one that hasn't come out yet, yet, yet, >> which makes it interesting, I suppose. >> which makes it interesting, I suppose. >> which makes it interesting, I suppose. The most challenging physical thing I've The most challenging physical thing I've The most challenging physical thing I've ever done is the seven marathons on ever done is the seven marathons on ever done is the seven marathons on seven continents in one week, seven continents in one week, seven continents in one week, which is going to be coming out this which is going to be coming out this which is going to be coming out this April. The three-part series on the April. The three-part series on the April. The three-part series on the channel. We're so excited about it. channel. We're so excited about it. channel. We're so excited about it. Specifically within that, the Antarctica Specifically within that, the Antarctica Specifically within that, the Antarctica marathon marathon marathon >> is something I probably won't do again. >> is something I probably won't do again. >> is something I probably won't do again. People got frostbite when we were out People got frostbite when we were out People got frostbite when we were out there. It was there. It was there. It was >> sure they did. >> sure they did. >> sure they did. >> But the sneaky sleeper marathon is most >> But the sneaky sleeper marathon is most >> But the sneaky sleeper marathon is most people think Antarctica is the worst people think Antarctica is the worst people think Antarctica is the worst when they hear about this challenge. But when they hear about this challenge. But when they hear about this challenge. But the sneaky one is marathon number six, the sneaky one is marathon number six, the sneaky one is marathon number six, which is in Colombia. which is in Colombia. which is in Colombia. And the reason this one is so crazy is And the reason this one is so crazy is And the reason this one is so crazy is because historically people have gone to because historically people have gone to because historically people have gone to the hospital from the hospital from the hospital from heat exposure. heat exposure. heat exposure. It's marathon number six. So, you have It's marathon number six. So, you have It's marathon number six. So, you have five other marathons in your body that five other marathons in your body that five other marathons in your body that you have done in the five previous days you have done in the five previous days you have done in the five previous days before. And they actually scheduled this before. And they actually scheduled this before. And they actually scheduled this marathon to happen overnight to try and marathon to happen overnight to try and marathon to happen overnight to try and avoid the sun. But because our flight avoid the sun. But because our flight avoid the sun. But because our flight was slightly delayed, we started around was slightly delayed, we started around was slightly delayed, we started around 300 a.m. And that meant we were 300 a.m. And that meant we were 300 a.m. And that meant we were literally racing against the sunrise. literally racing against the sunrise. literally racing against the sunrise. And the slower you go, the more heat And the slower you go, the more heat And the slower you go, the more heat exposure you have. So, it was like 100% exposure you have. So, it was like 100% exposure you have. So, it was like 100% humidity. humidity. humidity. It's It's so hot. It's It's so hot. It's It's so hot. And psychologically, you feel like And psychologically, you feel like And psychologically, you feel like you're at the finish line cuz tomorrow's you're at the finish line cuz tomorrow's you're at the finish line cuz tomorrow's the finale. Tomorrow's Miami. Tomorrow's the finale. Tomorrow's Miami. Tomorrow's the finale. Tomorrow's Miami. Tomorrow's race number seven. But really, number race number seven. But really, number race number seven. But really, number six is the unexpected one. six is the unexpected one. six is the unexpected one. >> Yeah, that sounds brutal. >> Yeah, that sounds brutal. >> Yeah, that sounds brutal. >> What's crazy about that is there are the >> What's crazy about that is there are the >> What's crazy about that is there are the most unexpected people who do this most unexpected people who do this most unexpected people who do this marathon. Like, okay, there was a guy, marathon. Like, okay, there was a guy, marathon. Like, okay, there was a guy, you're not going to believe this, there you're not going to believe this, there you're not going to believe this, there was a guy named Adrian was a guy named Adrian was a guy named Adrian for whom his first marathon he ever ran for whom his first marathon he ever ran for whom his first marathon he ever ran was marathon one of that week. was marathon one of that week. was marathon one of that week. He like knew some of the race organizers He like knew some of the race organizers He like knew some of the race organizers and just decided to come along. And and just decided to come along. And and just decided to come along. And originally, he was going to run half originally, he was going to run half originally, he was going to run half marathons and just decided, I'm going to marathons and just decided, I'm going to marathons and just decided, I'm going to go for the fulls. go for the fulls. go for the fulls. That's crazy to do your very first That's crazy to do your very first That's crazy to do your very first marathon as in a week where you're going marathon as in a week where you're going marathon as in a week where you're going to do seven. to do seven. to do seven. Yeah. So, that was nuts. you know there Yeah. So, that was nuts. you know there Yeah. So, that was nuts. you know there are sort of breeds and then there are are sort of breeds and then there are are sort of breeds and then there are breeds also I mean there are mutants for breeds also I mean there are mutants for breeds also I mean there are mutants for each of these disciplines right there each of these disciplines right there each of these disciplines right there are mutants for all these disciplines are mutants for all these disciplines are mutants for all these disciplines we've discussed we've discussed we've discussed >> and you meet some folks you mentioned >> and you meet some folks you mentioned >> and you meet some folks you mentioned stunt work on Avatar right but like I stunt work on Avatar right but like I stunt work on Avatar right but like I remember remember remember >> you know I've met people who are like >> you know I've met people who are like >> you know I've met people who are like professional high jumpers and I'm just professional high jumpers and I'm just professional high jumpers and I'm just looking at them and I'm like we are not looking at them and I'm like we are not looking at them and I'm like we are not >> the same species >> the same species >> the same species >> just like your attachment points and >> just like your attachment points and >> just like your attachment points and like where your Achilles is like like where your Achilles is like like where your Achilles is like Everything is different and that's true Everything is different and that's true Everything is different and that's true for for for every discipline including chess of every discipline including chess of every discipline including chess of course. course. course. >> There's an 83y old man named Dan Little >> There's an 83y old man named Dan Little >> There's an 83y old man named Dan Little who does this event. It's it was his who does this event. It's it was his who does this event. It's it was his fourth time doing it. fourth time doing it. fourth time doing it. >> The seven and seven or >> The seven and seven or >> The seven and seven or >> seven and seven. He's done it four >> seven and seven. He's done it four >> seven and seven. He's done it four times. He's 83 years old. He's this guy times. He's 83 years old. He's this guy times. He's 83 years old. He's this guy named Dan from Oklahoma and just the named Dan from Oklahoma and just the named Dan from Oklahoma and just the most incredible person you'll ever meet. most incredible person you'll ever meet. most incredible person you'll ever meet. like so joyful and excited and he's the like so joyful and excited and he's the like so joyful and excited and he's the last person on course every day. last person on course every day. last person on course every day. >> He takes seven or eight hours to do the >> He takes seven or eight hours to do the >> He takes seven or eight hours to do the full marathon full marathon full marathon >> and he is smiling the whole time. And I >> and he is smiling the whole time. And I >> and he is smiling the whole time. And I think that's one of the coolest things think that's one of the coolest things think that's one of the coolest things about our job, our jobs is perspective. about our job, our jobs is perspective. about our job, our jobs is perspective. The people you meet, it really redials The people you meet, it really redials The people you meet, it really redials your compass. your compass. your compass. >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're the average of the people you you're the average of the people you you're the average of the people you spend the most time with, it's like, spend the most time with, it's like, spend the most time with, it's like, choose those people really carefully. choose those people really carefully. choose those people really carefully. >> Gosh. >> Gosh. >> Gosh. >> You know, and I mean, the older I get, >> You know, and I mean, the older I get, >> You know, and I mean, the older I get, it's not that surprising, but the more I it's not that surprising, but the more I it's not that surprising, but the more I enjoy spending time with people who are enjoy spending time with people who are enjoy spending time with people who are doing things like that. Not necessarily doing things like that. Not necessarily doing things like that. Not necessarily that in that much of an extreme, but it that in that much of an extreme, but it that in that much of an extreme, but it could be like Arthur Brooks, like who we could be like Arthur Brooks, like who we could be like Arthur Brooks, like who we were just talking about, cuz there was were just talking about, cuz there was were just talking about, cuz there was some footage from a prior interview of some footage from a prior interview of some footage from a prior interview of mine up there. He's a busy guy or Adam mine up there. He's a busy guy or Adam mine up there. He's a busy guy or Adam Grant, right? But they take fantastic Grant, right? But they take fantastic Grant, right? But they take fantastic care of themselves. care of themselves. care of themselves. >> And particularly with each passing year, >> And particularly with each passing year, >> And particularly with each passing year, it seems as you get older, it seems as you get older, it seems as you get older, >> the sort of entropy that leads people to >> the sort of entropy that leads people to >> the sort of entropy that leads people to gather and just complain about their new gather and just complain about their new gather and just complain about their new aches and pains or how little time they aches and pains or how little time they aches and pains or how little time they have or how busy they are with the kids have or how busy they are with the kids have or how busy they are with the kids or whatever it might be or whatever it might be or whatever it might be increases. And increases. And increases. And I try and I I've succeeded fortunately. I try and I I've succeeded fortunately. I try and I I've succeeded fortunately. I have a lot of friends who are counter I have a lot of friends who are counter I have a lot of friends who are counter examples, right? And I'm like, okay, if examples, right? And I'm like, okay, if examples, right? And I'm like, okay, if this if there's only one counter example this if there's only one counter example this if there's only one counter example in the world, okay, well, maybe it's in the world, okay, well, maybe it's in the world, okay, well, maybe it's just sort of inevitable. But I'm like, just sort of inevitable. But I'm like, just sort of inevitable. But I'm like, if if I've gathered five to 10 close if if I've gathered five to 10 close if if I've gathered five to 10 close friends who are all counter examples, friends who are all counter examples, friends who are all counter examples, like that's something you can do because like that's something you can do because like that's something you can do because all of these people all of these people all of these people >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> from a personality perspective, from a >> from a personality perspective, from a >> from a personality perspective, from a life perspective, from a financial life perspective, from a financial life perspective, from a financial perspective, very different, which means perspective, very different, which means perspective, very different, which means like if you want it badly enough, you like if you want it badly enough, you like if you want it badly enough, you can be the counter example. can be the counter example. can be the counter example. >> And I find that super uplifting. Let me >> And I find that super uplifting. Let me >> And I find that super uplifting. Let me ask a couple of very quick questions and ask a couple of very quick questions and ask a couple of very quick questions and then we'll lay on this plane. then we'll lay on this plane. then we'll lay on this plane. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> This has been so fun. >> This has been so fun. >> This has been so fun. >> Yeah. I'm really happy to spend time >> Yeah. I'm really happy to spend time >> Yeah. I'm really happy to spend time together. You mentioned McMillions. together. You mentioned McMillions. together. You mentioned McMillions. Other favorite documentaries? I know you Other favorite documentaries? I know you Other favorite documentaries? I know you like documentaries. Are there any other like documentaries. Are there any other like documentaries. Are there any other documentaries documentaries documentaries that stand out to you? that stand out to you? that stand out to you? >> My favorite one is Freelo. >> My favorite one is Freelo. >> My favorite one is Freelo. >> Free is so good. >> Free is so good. >> Free is so good. >> So good. Alex Honold, what you doing? >> So good. Alex Honold, what you doing? >> So good. Alex Honold, what you doing? Talking about counter examples here. I Talking about counter examples here. I Talking about counter examples here. I am just endlessly inspired by him as a am just endlessly inspired by him as a am just endlessly inspired by him as a person and I think Jimmy Chin's work person and I think Jimmy Chin's work person and I think Jimmy Chin's work directing filming it's just outstanding directing filming it's just outstanding directing filming it's just outstanding given the care and the sensitivity of given the care and the sensitivity of given the care and the sensitivity of the subject nature the subject nature the subject nature >> terrifying >> terrifying >> terrifying >> and how he executed it. Wow. >> and how he executed it. Wow. >> and how he executed it. Wow. >> Yeah. So for people who maybe watched >> Yeah. So for people who maybe watched >> Yeah. So for people who maybe watched the recent live Netflix climbing of the recent live Netflix climbing of the recent live Netflix climbing of >> Taipei >> Taipei >> Taipei >> Taipei go watch Free Solo if you haven't >> Taipei go watch Free Solo if you haven't >> Taipei go watch Free Solo if you haven't seen it. And fun fact, I actually seen it. And fun fact, I actually seen it. And fun fact, I actually interviewed Alex about 6 months before interviewed Alex about 6 months before interviewed Alex about 6 months before he did his free solo ascent of he did his free solo ascent of he did his free solo ascent of >> of LCAP. >> of LCAP. >> of LCAP. >> I just got chills >> I just got chills >> I just got chills >> and he was in that white van that is in >> and he was in that white van that is in >> and he was in that white van that is in the movie and freaked me out cuz he like the movie and freaked me out cuz he like the movie and freaked me out cuz he like parked outside of my house and I was parked outside of my house and I was parked outside of my house and I was like, who's in this like creepy van with like, who's in this like creepy van with like, who's in this like creepy van with no windows parked in front of my house? no windows parked in front of my house? no windows parked in front of my house? And it's also before he got media And it's also before he got media And it's also before he got media training. So if you want to see like training. So if you want to see like training. So if you want to see like pre-polish Alex and I I want to give nod pre-polish Alex and I I want to give nod pre-polish Alex and I I want to give nod also freestyl is an amazing movie to also freestyl is an amazing movie to also freestyl is an amazing movie to Chai Vaserelli. So Chai is married to Chai Vaserelli. So Chai is married to Chai Vaserelli. So Chai is married to Jimmy Chin. She is Jimmy Chin. She is Jimmy Chin. She is >> I mean in a lot of ways the filmmaker >> I mean in a lot of ways the filmmaker >> I mean in a lot of ways the filmmaker and Jimmy obviously without his and Jimmy obviously without his and Jimmy obviously without his expertise and these crazy complicated expertise and these crazy complicated expertise and these crazy complicated rigs and the ability to climb and rigs and the ability to climb and rigs and the ability to climb and actually be suspended around Alex and so actually be suspended around Alex and so actually be suspended around Alex and so on. I won't ruin any thing with on. I won't ruin any thing with on. I won't ruin any thing with spoilers, like there are a lot of spoilers, like there are a lot of spoilers, like there are a lot of adjustments that need to be made with adjustments that need to be made with adjustments that need to be made with that, but that, but that, but that is a fantastic one. I think it was that is a fantastic one. I think it was that is a fantastic one. I think it was The Dive. They've also had some The Dive. They've also had some The Dive. They've also had some follow-up films that are just follow-up films that are just follow-up films that are just incredible. incredible. incredible. >> I remember seeing a tweet when Alex did >> I remember seeing a tweet when Alex did >> I remember seeing a tweet when Alex did the Taipei climb that was like, the Taipei climb that was like, the Taipei climb that was like, "Everyone's freaking out about this. "Everyone's freaking out about this. "Everyone's freaking out about this. What if I told you this is actually not What if I told you this is actually not What if I told you this is actually not the craziest thing he's ever done?" the craziest thing he's ever done?" the craziest thing he's ever done?" Referring to free. All I mean it is so Referring to free. All I mean it is so Referring to free. All I mean it is so far not the craziest thing in the sense far not the craziest thing in the sense far not the craziest thing in the sense that watch watch the LCAP climb. It is that watch watch the LCAP climb. It is that watch watch the LCAP climb. It is infinitely hard to any really really infinitely hard to any really really infinitely hard to any really really seasoned climber. Yes, it's risky to seasoned climber. Yes, it's risky to seasoned climber. Yes, it's risky to climb with no ropes. Yes, the tower is climb with no ropes. Yes, the tower is climb with no ropes. Yes, the tower is dangerous if you make a mistake. From a dangerous if you make a mistake. From a dangerous if you make a mistake. From a technical perspective, it's actually not technical perspective, it's actually not technical perspective, it's actually not that difficult. Right. Doing what he did that difficult. Right. Doing what he did that difficult. Right. Doing what he did on LCAP, on LCAP, on LCAP, it is very much in the deathdeying it is very much in the deathdeying it is very much in the deathdeying category. Yeah, I'm out. category. Yeah, I'm out. category. Yeah, I'm out. >> People I'm sure people ask you this too, >> People I'm sure people ask you this too, >> People I'm sure people ask you this too, but people are always like, "What's but people are always like, "What's but people are always like, "What's something you wouldn't do?" I'm like, something you wouldn't do?" I'm like, something you wouldn't do?" I'm like, "I'm going to let Alex Honold own the "I'm going to let Alex Honold own the "I'm going to let Alex Honold own the category of whatever it is he's doing." category of whatever it is he's doing." category of whatever it is he's doing." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think that category is well covered. >> I think that category is well covered. >> I think that category is well covered. >> The category of things I wouldn't do is >> The category of things I wouldn't do is >> The category of things I wouldn't do is pretty is pretty broad and it gets pretty is pretty broad and it gets pretty is pretty broad and it gets broader every day. After a few very broader every day. After a few very broader every day. After a few very scary avalanche experiences with scary avalanche experiences with scary avalanche experiences with backcountry skiing and heli skiing where backcountry skiing and heli skiing where backcountry skiing and heli skiing where people have gotten really injured and people have gotten really injured and people have gotten really injured and could have been buried, I'm done. like could have been buried, I'm done. like could have been buried, I'm done. like avalanche risk. If there's any real avalanche risk. If there's any real avalanche risk. If there's any real avalanche risk, I'm out. Like that. avalanche risk, I'm out. Like that. avalanche risk, I'm out. Like that. >> So, you're out from Everest. >> So, you're out from Everest. >> So, you're out from Everest. >> Oh, there are many reasons I'm out. >> Oh, there are many reasons I'm out. >> Oh, there are many reasons I'm out. >> There are many reasons I'm out from >> There are many reasons I'm out from >> There are many reasons I'm out from Everest, too. Everest, too. Everest, too. >> Yeah. No, there there are a lot of >> Yeah. No, there there are a lot of >> Yeah. No, there there are a lot of reasons I'm out from Everest. reasons I'm out from Everest. reasons I'm out from Everest. >> People ask me all the time, >> People ask me all the time, >> People ask me all the time, >> not the least of which is like plenty of >> not the least of which is like plenty of >> not the least of which is like plenty of people have already done it. Like, why people have already done it. Like, why people have already done it. Like, why would would would >> Exactly. I think the story's been told. >> Exactly. I think the story's been told. >> Exactly. I think the story's been told. >> Yeah. Why would I risk my life for >> Yeah. Why would I risk my life for >> Yeah. Why would I risk my life for something that's not even going to be a something that's not even going to be a something that's not even going to be a notable footnote for anything or anyone? notable footnote for anything or anyone? notable footnote for anything or anyone? >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> Book or books you've given most as a >> Book or books you've given most as a >> Book or books you've given most as a gift or recommended a lot? any books gift or recommended a lot? any books gift or recommended a lot? any books come to mind? come to mind? come to mind? >> I have recommended Radical Cander to >> I have recommended Radical Cander to >> I have recommended Radical Cander to pretty much everybody I know who's a pretty much everybody I know who's a pretty much everybody I know who's a content creator trying to figure out content creator trying to figure out content creator trying to figure out their business. The other one is The their business. The other one is The their business. The other one is The Great CEO Within, which is a really fast Great CEO Within, which is a really fast Great CEO Within, which is a really fast and easy read. And for anyone who didn't and easy read. And for anyone who didn't and easy read. And for anyone who didn't start in Silicon Valley or a startup start in Silicon Valley or a startup start in Silicon Valley or a startup culture or a startup of any kind was culture or a startup of any kind was culture or a startup of any kind was really helpful to me to just understand really helpful to me to just understand really helpful to me to just understand here's what a company is and how it here's what a company is and how it here's what a company is and how it works. And then I've given Adam Grant's works. And then I've given Adam Grant's works. And then I've given Adam Grant's originals to a few people, too. originals to a few people, too. originals to a few people, too. >> Dang it. All right. >> Dang it. All right. >> Dang it. All right. >> I would say this, but I feel like that's >> I would say this, but I feel like that's >> I would say this, but I feel like that's cheating, so I've tried to exclude it cheating, so I've tried to exclude it cheating, so I've tried to exclude it from my answer, so I can't say that. But from my answer, so I can't say that. But from my answer, so I can't say that. But obviously, I talk about it all the time. obviously, I talk about it all the time. obviously, I talk about it all the time. >> If you could have one giant billboard >> If you could have one giant billboard >> If you could have one giant billboard anywhere, obviously this is anywhere, obviously this is anywhere, obviously this is metaphorically speaking with anything on metaphorically speaking with anything on metaphorically speaking with anything on it. Could be a quote, nothing it. Could be a quote, nothing it. Could be a quote, nothing commercial, right? But could be a commercial, right? But could be a commercial, right? But could be a mantra, quote from someone else, a mantra, quote from someone else, a mantra, quote from someone else, a picture, anything, question. What might picture, anything, question. What might picture, anything, question. What might you put on that? you put on that? you put on that? >> I feel like this one has been overused >> I feel like this one has been overused >> I feel like this one has been overused at this point, but one that was really at this point, but one that was really at this point, but one that was really helpful for me starting my channel was helpful for me starting my channel was helpful for me starting my channel was everything you want is on the other side everything you want is on the other side everything you want is on the other side of fear. Very simple. Again, overused at of fear. Very simple. Again, overused at of fear. Very simple. Again, overused at this point, but I love that one because this point, but I love that one because this point, but I love that one because it's what I return to when things are it's what I return to when things are it's what I return to when things are hard in any aspect of life and hard in any aspect of life and hard in any aspect of life and especially when I'm doing a challenge. especially when I'm doing a challenge. especially when I'm doing a challenge. It's a way for me to remind myself this It's a way for me to remind myself this It's a way for me to remind myself this is the struggle I asked for to make is the struggle I asked for to make is the struggle I asked for to make myself better at the thing I want to be myself better at the thing I want to be myself better at the thing I want to be better at. And it's also a reminder to better at. And it's also a reminder to better at. And it's also a reminder to move forward through it move forward through it move forward through it >> and not shy away from it. As we talked >> and not shy away from it. As we talked >> and not shy away from it. As we talked about, challenge accepted was born out about, challenge accepted was born out about, challenge accepted was born out of writing my fears on a whiteboard. And of writing my fears on a whiteboard. And of writing my fears on a whiteboard. And so for me, I've have a very intimate so for me, I've have a very intimate so for me, I've have a very intimate connection with that sentiment. And I connection with that sentiment. And I connection with that sentiment. And I think about it even in an exterior think about it even in an exterior think about it even in an exterior capacity. When I get nervous about capacity. When I get nervous about capacity. When I get nervous about something, personal life, business, something, personal life, business, something, personal life, business, whatever, exterior to the challenge whatever, exterior to the challenge whatever, exterior to the challenge itself, I return to that often. itself, I return to that often. itself, I return to that often. >> Mhm. I have quotes related to that >> Mhm. I have quotes related to that >> Mhm. I have quotes related to that etched onto driftwood from ranging from etched onto driftwood from ranging from etched onto driftwood from ranging from Anias Nin to others all over all over my Anias Nin to others all over all over my Anias Nin to others all over all over my house. house. house. >> I think I've done enough talking today. >> I think I've done enough talking today. >> I think I've done enough talking today. So, I'm going to keep the focus on you, So, I'm going to keep the focus on you, So, I'm going to keep the focus on you, Michelle. Where can people find you? Michelle. Where can people find you? Michelle. Where can people find you? Where would you like to point people to? Where would you like to point people to? Where would you like to point people to? >> You can follow me at Michelle Kar on >> You can follow me at Michelle Kar on >> You can follow me at Michelle Kar on everything. And the three-part series of everything. And the three-part series of everything. And the three-part series of my experience my experience my experience attempting seven marathons on all seven attempting seven marathons on all seven attempting seven marathons on all seven continents in one single week will be continents in one single week will be continents in one single week will be coming out on my YouTube channel in coming out on my YouTube channel in coming out on my YouTube channel in three consecutive weeks throughout April three consecutive weeks throughout April three consecutive weeks throughout April and May. And we're going for a prime and May. And we're going for a prime and May. And we're going for a prime time Emmy this year, which I'm really time Emmy this year, which I'm really time Emmy this year, which I'm really excited about. We're on the ballot for excited about. We're on the ballot for excited about. We're on the ballot for outstanding hosted non-fiction series or outstanding hosted non-fiction series or outstanding hosted non-fiction series or special. It's a very long title for a special. It's a very long title for a special. It's a very long title for a category and I'm excited about it for a category and I'm excited about it for a category and I'm excited about it for a lot of reasons. lot of reasons. lot of reasons. Most of which is I want to be a part of Most of which is I want to be a part of Most of which is I want to be a part of a future where it's a future where it's a future where it's not unheard of that a YouTube channel is not unheard of that a YouTube channel is not unheard of that a YouTube channel is going for something like this. And going for something like this. And going for something like this. And that's why I'm excited about it for that's why I'm excited about it for that's why I'm excited about it for myself and other creators. myself and other creators. myself and other creators. >> I'm excited for you. >> I'm excited for you. >> I'm excited for you. >> Thank you. So, if you're a voter, >> Thank you. So, if you're a voter, >> Thank you. So, if you're a voter, >> I'd vote for you. I'd vote for you. And >> I'd vote for you. I'd vote for you. And >> I'd vote for you. I'd vote for you. And just for people who may miss this, K h a just for people who may miss this, K h a just for people who may miss this, K h a r e. r e. r e. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. M I C H E L L E. K H A R >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. M I C H E L L E. K H A R >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. M I C H E L L E. K H A R E. E. E. >> Uh Michelle, is there anything else >> Uh Michelle, is there anything else >> Uh Michelle, is there anything else you'd like to say? Any parting words? you'd like to say? Any parting words? you'd like to say? Any parting words? Anything you'd like to add before we Anything you'd like to add before we Anything you'd like to add before we wind to a close? wind to a close? wind to a close? >> I want to say thank you, Tim. It was >> I want to say thank you, Tim. It was >> I want to say thank you, Tim. It was really special to go back through the really special to go back through the really special to go back through the archives and realize that archives and realize that archives and realize that your impact in my life started 10 years your impact in my life started 10 years your impact in my life started 10 years ago and to almost to the date ago and to almost to the date ago and to almost to the date be meeting you 10 years later is really be meeting you 10 years later is really be meeting you 10 years later is really full circle and affirming for me. And I full circle and affirming for me. And I full circle and affirming for me. And I hope that anyone listening can can hear hope that anyone listening can can hear hope that anyone listening can can hear the very grassroots fear setting chart the very grassroots fear setting chart the very grassroots fear setting chart that I had for myself in the beginning. that I had for myself in the beginning. that I had for myself in the beginning. And I think it's a special moment for me And I think it's a special moment for me And I think it's a special moment for me to reflect on the the length of time it to reflect on the the length of time it to reflect on the the length of time it takes to do something special takes to do something special takes to do something special >> and how that commitment can lead you >> and how that commitment can lead you >> and how that commitment can lead you somewhere unexpected. somewhere unexpected. somewhere unexpected. >> Thank you for that. And I have to say it >> Thank you for that. And I have to say it >> Thank you for that. And I have to say it makes me so deeply makes me so deeply makes me so deeply happy. I mean joy is probably a better happy. I mean joy is probably a better happy. I mean joy is probably a better word. I get so much joy out of the fact word. I get so much joy out of the fact word. I get so much joy out of the fact that that you exist and you're doing that that you exist and you're doing that that you exist and you're doing what you're doing because it tests a lot what you're doing because it tests a lot what you're doing because it tests a lot of assumptions about a direction that I of assumptions about a direction that I of assumptions about a direction that I would view as pretty dystopian about would view as pretty dystopian about would view as pretty dystopian about online content creation. like you're online content creation. like you're online content creation. like you're putting out long form putting out long form putting out long form positive positive positive life affirming life affirming life affirming non-fiction where you show that non-fiction where you show that non-fiction where you show that failure is not a terminal sentence. It's failure is not a terminal sentence. It's failure is not a terminal sentence. It's just feedback along the path. And I just just feedback along the path. And I just just feedback along the path. And I just love that you're doing what you're love that you're doing what you're love that you're doing what you're doing. And I'm such a fan of your work, doing. And I'm such a fan of your work, doing. And I'm such a fan of your work, such a fan of Challenge Accepted. such a fan of Challenge Accepted. such a fan of Challenge Accepted. And I hope you keep doing it for a super And I hope you keep doing it for a super And I hope you keep doing it for a super long time. long time. long time. >> Me, too. Thank you, Tim. >> Me, too. Thank you, Tim. >> Me, too. Thank you, Tim. >> Yeah. All right, everybody. Until next >> Yeah. All right, everybody. Until next >> Yeah. All right, everybody. Until next time, we're going to put show notes, time, we're going to put show notes, time, we're going to put show notes, including some template emails for including some template emails for including some template emails for people in the show notes at people in the show notes at people in the show notes at tim.blog/mpodcast. tim.blog/mpodcast. tim.blog/mpodcast. I assure you, if you search Kh, there I assure you, if you search Kh, there I assure you, if you search Kh, there will be only one will be only one will be only one response. Until next time, be just a bit response. Until next time, be just a bit response. Until next time, be just a bit kinder than is necessary to others, but kinder than is necessary to others, but kinder than is necessary to others, but also to yourself. And thanks for tuning also to yourself. And thanks for tuning also to yourself. And thanks for tuning in. in. in. Thank you.