Danny McBride: The Internet Is Selling Lost People Fake Answers

Key Takeaway

Create conditions that let your work and relationships coexist. Danny McBride protects early mornings for writing: begin before the household wakes up, make progress on one idea, then return fully to family responsibilities. Pair that schedule with an open idea document: freely collect scenes, observations, and fragments without demanding a finished concept. Revisit the notes that keep pulling your attention—recurring curiosity is a practical signal of what is worth developing.

Episode Overview

Danny McBride joins Rich Roll to discuss his short-story collection, Thrilling Tales of Modern Men, and the universal comedy of bruised egos, disappointment, and flawed ideas of masculinity. He shares his creative process, the value of finding long-term collaborators, why intentional limits can broaden taste, and how to build a sustainable creative life around family and community.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Danny McBride: The Internet Is Selling Lost People Fake Answers from Rich Roll Podcast. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

You are highlighting the weaknesses of modern American man. Okay, Danny. So, what's the solution? This is your self-help guru moment. Danny McBride has created some of the funniest characters on television. He's brought back the mullet haircut. Kenny Powers is a man. Kenny Powers is an athlete. Kenny Powers is a lover . Now, he is harnessing the spirit of his new book, which is called Thrilling Tales of Modern Men. The collection of short stories explores modern masculinity through a cast of characters. There's this idea of ​​what it means to be a guy.

Growing up in the 80s and watching Rambo or Chuck Norris or all that stuff, you realize the reality that you're not going to fight an army of men in karate and win. Sometimes you have to accept an office job. There's something about disappointment that just seems like fertile ground for comedy to me. Danny, thank you so much for doing this. You're the funniest guy in the world. I'm so grateful to have you as a hostage today, to talk to you , man. So, thank you for coming all this way .

Being here is wonderful. Yes. Congratulations on the book. I'm curious to know how this experience has been different for you. In other words, it's very consistent with everything you 've done over the last 30 years, but it's ultimately a different kind of proposal. Yes. You know, like you said, I've been doing this for a long time and I wanted to see if I could translate what I'd been doing in television and film to a completely different format. It is obvious that it is becoming increasingly difficult to make television and films.

And I thought that if I could somehow break into this field, it would offer unlimited creative potential . If you can eliminate the middleman and it's just you and the audience left, then you can tell stories about whatever you want. Yes. I mean , you're a master of the collaborative art of film and television. You have your group of people you've been working with since day one, but writing is a solitary business. But there's something unfiltered, you know, Danny? I mean, did you base this on any collaboration or is it something that went directly from your imagination to the page?

Yes, it went straight from my imagination to the page. And that was what I expected. I love collaboration. I love it, I think it's one of the things I love most about making a TV series or a film: you have an idea and then the next journey is, you know, bringing together a group of great artists who have their own points of view and then working all together to improve it. And that's something really fun, something so unique that it only happens in movies and television.

Many art forms are very independent, and I've always liked that. But, well, that's how it goes, you know, you finish writing something and it's like the beginning of a negotiation. So it's like, who am I going to get to be on this? Will they give me enough money to do it? Is it going to rain on the day I planned this beautiful sunset? And with writing, you know, in this format, once the story is done, it's finished. It's as if there were no production budget. No one else, no obstacle to overcome.

Uh-huh . When you were writing it, did you think about how it would look from a cinematic point of view, or were you able to put that aspect aside? I imagine that, on some level, you 're always thinking visually all the time. You know, I definitely think visually and I think the way I create stories is, uh, you know, I'm definitely inspired by all the years I've spent writing for the screen. But yes, with these I wanted them to exist as stories, as written stories. So I wasn't thinking beyond whether they would adapt or if that could translate into something else.

Well, I think some of these could, but yes, it wasn't part of the motivation. Actually, I was just trying to land the plane in this format. Yes. It's the perfect time because it lands at a moment when the discourse, the kind of public discourse that's happening right now, is about the crisis of masculinity and this epidemic of loneliness and, you know, alienation, etc. But for you, you've been writing these characters with these themes for like 30 years. This is nothing new. Do you notice that there is something acute about this moment, or do you feel that it has always been this way and that we are finally paying attention to something that has consistently interested you throughout your career?

It's probably a bit of both . I mean, I definitely feel like, you know, I feel like some of these things that I've been making fun of or criticizing all these years, I think are kind of universal things. Disappointment, having your ego bruised, is what makes you feel this way . I think these are all things that people have always dealt with, probably men have always dealt with throughout time. And I don't know , there's something about disappointment that I simply find to be quite fertile ground for comedy.

So I would always stack these characters to be sort of avatars to explore all those things. But, you know, I think with that too, it's, you know , my, growing up in the '80s, it's like I lived in the video store, I lived in the Cinniplex, like I consumed so many stories and so much media, and you were definitely in that era presented as a certain kind of alpha, you know? And I think if you're an artistic kid living in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and you're creating your own images of what your life will be like when you grow up, while watching movies like Rambo or Chuck Norris or all that kind of stuff, well, that's where this specific idea of ​​what it means to be a man is forged.

And I think it's funny as we get older. Obviously, the reality of that falls apart; it's like you're not necessarily capable of, you know, fighting an army of men in karate and winning. Sometimes you just have to accept an office job. Yes. You said you belong to the generation of men who grew up watching Rambo and ended up working at Geico. That's more or less it. And that kind of fragile and wounded ego of that man who gazes at himself in the mirror of his own disappointment, trying to deal with how to move on, carrying this feeling of injustice, as if, in the end, we had been cheated on some level.

Yes. Yes. They lied to you, didn't they? Do you understand what I mean? And how do you make up for that? Showing yourself in such a selfish and unrestrained way that it always ends up becoming a complete disaster in a rather terrible way. Completely. It's as if many of these characters, many of these stories, didn't have antagonists. As if the person who represents the greatest threat to their having a good existence were themselves. Yes. And that's the last person they're aware of standing in their way: everyone else.

Completely . Yes. It's also an interesting time because right now we're all living in the Danny McBride extended universe. Looking around, I started thinking that if Danny were to write his own version of The West Wing or VEP, of course there would be UFC fights in the front yard, and the reflecting pond would naturally turn green; Furthermore, the person responsible for turning it green would look like a Dick Tracy villain. And then, when you look at that, you wonder how you can be satirical, where you're going, because you know that fiction and reality are so closely aligned with your sensibility.

You know, I think what you ultimately have to focus on is what is true for people, regardless of the era. As you know, there are these universal ideas about how people act and how they respond to things. I think if you focus on that, you can always stay one step ahead of the madness of what's happening right now. And I hope you're creating a story that has a much greater impact. I mean, you know, we sold Eastbound 20 years ago this summer, and I find it incredible that there are still young people finding it now.

And that's it, you know, when you really look at comedy, it's a pretty long shelf life for something. You know, a lot of things usually come out and can be popular for four or five years and then new things come along to replace them. But I really think the reason it's endured is simply because we were trying to make it timeless. We were trying not to necessarily focus at that moment on American culture, but on the bigger picture of what, you know, this type of person is like because you say, "Yeah, I know that person.

Everyone knows that archetype. There's someone in their life who, you know, is personally like them, and that transcends the moment in which it was created." It's also a side benefit of the streaming world we 're in now. Like me, you know , you have children, I have children, and it's been fascinating to watch them fall in love with things that, you know, happened decades and decades ago, whether it's music, TV shows, or movies. And I just think about the kind of encyclopedic consciousness that young people have now, which we didn't have when we were growing up.

It was simply what was on the radio, and this is what's being broadcast on all three channels right now. You understand me? And either you're there to see it or you're not, and it's gone. I think it's quite fascinating. Now you can enjoy something like a young person and delve much deeper and have access to all the versions or what inspired you, and it's all there for you. And as you were saying to us, it was like there were, without wanting to sound like a veteran, but there were only about 12 channels, and whatever was being broadcast on those channels, that's exactly what you ended up watching.

And now, we've moved from that to channels that are specialized in a single subject, whether it's history, cartoons, or any other topic, and now we've surpassed that point, where you have access to everything that has been created and can focus with total freedom on whatever you want. And I think that has its advantages. Obviously, it's fun to be able to select what you like. But I've also realized that even with music, you know, having all my music, you know, on my iPhone and having the ability to always listen to my music.

It also closes you off from experiencing new things, since you tend to immerse yourself endlessly in everything that is your own tastes and desires. And sometimes it prevents you from discovering new things because you 're almost endlessly selecting what you like. And sometimes it's nice to be surprised by things that aren't what you think you'd like. In addition, we like having YouTube TV and I go through the guide intentionally removing all the channels to leave only about thirteen or fourteen, as I quite like the idea of ​​everything being reduced to just this, thus limiting the content we view.

This is all we're going to see; Try putting on that movie you think you don't want to see, put on that series you think is boring and just see what ends up happening. My children are in charge of finding new and cool things. [ __ ]. Like my nineteen-year-old daughter, who listens to music from fifty or sixty years ago, because of her own tastes, can you imagine being that age and seeing something that was created forty years ago? I think I think about it all the time.

I'm constantly playing with numbers, like my kids are listening to something from the '80s. That was 40 years ago. That would have been me in the 80s listening to something from the 40s. Yes. Unimaginable. But that gives me hope, you know, especially because there are always people saying that cinema is dead or that the form is not what it used to be, and then the behind-the-scenes stuff and the obsession come out and you think, " Wow." Yes. This is youth culture, you know, telling us what they're interested in, and then it spreads and a whole new world is born.

I completely agree. I honestly think the film industry always goes through its own rhythms of what works and what does n't, and sometimes they get stuck in genres that have been dead for too long and then move on to something else. But I definitely feel that what has been lacking is for young people to have a clear idea of ​​what films are being made. It gives the impression that people of my generation, perhaps those a little older, have held the reins of power for too long.

Think about some of these types. I believe that Robert Evans, when he was in charge of Paramount and gave the green light to The Godfather, would have been about 28 years old. The idea of ​​someone so young making those decisions makes you think, "Yes, that's what this city needs. That's what this industry needs." "Because ultimately, if this doesn't appeal to young people, then it fades away. You know, it has to be relevant to them, and it can't just be constantly relaunching things that, you know, appeal to our youth.

There may be time for that, but you also have to have new things. And you have to have, you know, you have to have young people who see that there's a path in the industry, you know? Who can see the guys who are creating obsession in the backquarters and say, 'Those guys aren't that much older than me, and they're doing great.'" And you need that inspiration. In your fertile mind, how do you know when an idea is worth investing the amount of time it takes to develop it and turn it into something like Eastbounded Down?

It's interesting. It's not like just one thing, it's like I'm always thinking of ideas all the time and you know I'll try to have several things open at the same time, but inevitably some of them will stick around more than the others. You know, you'll just wake up. Yes. You'll find yourself going back to her more and more. Your brain will simply think, "Oh, I keep thinking: I can't stop thinking about that idea." "And, you know, with Gemstones, it was like that. I moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and I was trying to figure out what show I wanted to do next, what story.

And I had like three or four different ideas. And that Gemstone Family, it just kept me going, it was the one that kept coming back to me over and over again. So I just went with it. And like a lot of times writing is, you know, because it's something you do by yourself, you have to have fun doing it. It has to be something you want to invest your time in. You don't want it to be a chore. So I just gravitate toward things that I feel are going to be fun.

It seems like you're having a good time. Well, you know, it's not. I'm sure it's a lot of hard work. And people might not realize that you're the showrunner. You're the one who writes everything. You're not just the guy who appears on screen. But you made a conscious decision in 2017 to split up Los Angeles and move to Charleston as a better place to raise your kids, but you also brought all your people with you and now you have This community, this creative community, and your company—it seems like that's allowed you not only to be a better observer of life because, you know, Los Angeles is kind of a bubble where you're removed from normal people, but it's also allowed you the freedom outside the panopticon of the studio system to do your own thing without too much interference.

Right. Yes, that's true. You know, we honestly learned that when we were shooting eastbound, and we were shooting in Wilmington, North Carolina, and the idea that at the time there was n't a direct flight from Los Angeles to North Carolina, we realized that the executives never came to the set. We thought, "Oh, we just have to pick cities that aren't easy to get to from Los Angeles, and that way we'll have more freedom ." "Allowing you to push boundaries. I'm sure you still get notes, but it's different when someone doesn't show up every day to ...Yeah.

And we've been very lucky with HBO. I've had a great relationship with them and I've had a blast working with them. And even when we disagree, there's never...yeah, never any controversy and there's never a 'do this' or 'that's it.' They've always supported us, and I think that trust has been built between us over the years, and I think that allows us to take more risks and push boundaries. Let's go back to the beginning, where did all this start for you? When did you first realize this was something you wanted to do?

I've always wanted to do this, for as long as I can remember . I have notebooks at home with stories I wrote when I was in third, fourth, or fifth grade. I mean, I always wanted to tell stories, and I think I remember when our family got our first VCR and that whole feeling of just having access to stories and watching movies. It was something where I just knew instantly that's where I wanted to be. I invested all my energy and all my personal time. So I was fortunate enough to dedicate everything I had to pursuing that goal.

I made movies in my backyard. I wrote plays in high school that our school performed. And then I went to film school. I was constantly trying to figure out how to do this. What was it like? What was life like at home? Your father was a prison guard. He was a prison guard in Lampoke, California. We lived on the Lampoke Prison Reservation for a few years, and then he was transferred to the Federal Bureau of Prisons in D.C. And that brought us to D.C. And at that time, Fredericksburg is about an hour south of D.C.

But that was, you know, it was really rural. It was out in the country. Now the sprawl of D.C. is so big that it's like a suburb now. Yeah, it's like a suburb of D.C., but back then it was really out in the country. It was very far away. But yeah, that brought us there when I was in... I think we moved to Virginia when I was in first grade, and yeah. And then we grew up in Virginia, we lived in Northern Virginia for a We spent time in Burke, and then we moved to Fredericksburg and graduated from high school there.

Yes. But also places in Pennsylvania, which is a little farther south of Fredericksburg, right? Civil War territory, lots of Civil War action. So I grew up in Maryland, and every weekend I feel like my dad was saying, "Get in the truck." And he would take us to some Civil War battlefield, you know, and it was a history lesson, you know? There's a kind of obsession in my parents' generation with the Civil War, with men of that age, you know? And Spennsylvania was a place we went to often because in Spennsylvania there is a place called Spindle Farm.

Do you know this place? I 've heard about him. Yes. Spindle is my mother's maiden name . Oh. So, apparently, this is our family lineage. That's incredible. And that was the site of, you know, a bloodbath. At a very controversial moment in the Civil War. So I spent time in Spennsylvania, I know it well. It's a great place to grow up. School trips were really boring because all the trips were like, you know, you get off the bus route and it's just a field. Yes. And you think, "I walk by here every day on my way to the supermarket, and now we're walking around there." But honestly, I loved it.

I thought it was great to live in a place where everything you learn in school happens in your backyard and there's a landmark for it. And I thought it was like, you know, I remember in downtown Fredersburg there was like a slave auction right in the middle of town. And I remember being there and seeing it, and then seeing the town I know and thinking, "Oh, it's crazy to think this was happening right here," you know, "and then, you know, the older you get, you think, 'It wasn't even that long ago .'" That's how it was, you know, it wasn't that it wasn't as old as you think when you're a kid.

And I liked being near those battlefields and discovering those stories, you know, they just drew me into history. And I think that was also part of why Charleston appealed to me so much when we filmed there; I liked the idea that huge things had happened there and now it's a new place. However, it is unusual for a child from rural Virginia to decide that he wants to go to film school. Yes it is. I imagine there weren't many people in your community who took out their cameras and made short films.

Yes. No, there really weren't any. And I would involve all the children in the neighborhood to participate in my films. And none of them were interested, or it wasn't like they were trying to do that, and then I just involved them in the things I was doing and hired them that way. And yes, it was great. I think that's what I liked about it when I finished at the North Carolina School of the Arts, where I went to film school. It was the first time I was really surrounded by other people who had some interest in this.

And I think I quickly became friends with many of these guys I still work with because it was kind of...I don't know. It was kind of groundbreaking for me, like, "Wow, there are other people who have been like me; I've been where I've been , you've been in a small town and you also like all these crazy movies, and you wanted to dedicate your life to trying to figure out how to be a part of that industry." So, how long were you there before you connected with David Gordon Green?

The first day I lived there. Yes. In my , uh, I moved into the residence and David lived, uh, David was my next-door neighbor on one side and Jody Hill was my next-door neighbor on the other side. Oh. Yes. And well, uh, yes, I mean , a lot of the John Couture and Jeff Bradley types, who are two of the guys I 've written with on Eastbound and Vice Principles and Gems, now live in Charleston. All those guys lived in our residence. I mean, a lot of these guys, to this day , for our production designer, our music supervisor , are all guys who, basically, all lived in the same residence in our first year.

We've all had great careers. Yes. Everyone has sensitivities, and yes, it was great. I know, you know, I think when you decide to go to university to study art, the question always arises of, oh, did you need to? For example , is it better to spend it instead of, you know, student loans? Is it better to just take that money and make a movie? And you know, I don't think there's a real answer to that. Obviously, it's different for everyone, but for me, what was important was that there was plenty of time to get jobs and work.

That's what your whole life is going to be. But forcing yourself for 4 years to focus only on movies and concentrate on watching movies and talking about movies and just digesting them in that way, I think was very beneficial, you know, finding your people. Find your people. And I really think that if I had just taken that money and gone to Los Angeles, I think more attention would have been paid to survival instead of preparing and studying. It's something like Seattle and grunge. As if there were a very specific place that isn't like the first three or four that come to mind.

It's like having NYU and then there's USC and UCL. Okay, UNCC Winston Salem has a film school there. Who would have imagined that so much talent would sprout at such a specific time? It also reminds me of Mike Burbiglia, Nick Croll, and John Melany, all of them at Georgetown coinciding in the same period, a convergence of time and space that gives rise to what seems to be almost a whole new sensibility within the world of the arts. I feel grateful to have been there at that moment and to have been a part of it because that's how I felt.

I mean , even when I was applying to schools, I think we were the third graduating class from that film school. So that film school was completely new. And, you know, coming from Virginia, we weren't middle class. The idea about NYU or USC was that they weren't going to be viable for me. They weren't in my plans. And if I didn't want to go to those places at that time, it's not like every university offered a filmmaking course. I mean , they didn't do it at all.

I remember applying to all those schools, and you know, there might be some TV production, or I remember calling VCU, which was in Richmond, and I wasn't clear, you know, on the information I was getting about where they had a film program. And I contacted someone in the media department and said, "Do you have a film school?" And he said to me, "You know what, what are you trying to do?" I was like, "Well, I wanted to learn how to make movies." He said, "Maybe we can get a camera or something." That was the level where it wasn't...it wasn't a major, it was more like a present thing.

So when I found out about the North County School of the Arts, it was a public school. It was within the range of what I could afford with student loans and all that. And the great thing about it is that it's a conservatory, so even if you had gone to college before, you have to be in that program for four years. So it put you there with a great variety of people. There were people who had gone to college, there was a stay-at-home mom there, it was everything, it was a random mix of people, but you were all on the same four- year journey.

And the great thing about it was that it wasn't like the rich kids were making the best movies. Like, everyone was given the exact same budget from the school, and you had to make your movies with that budget, and you had to figure it out, so it was great because the Class appeal was eliminated from the creation process. Everyone was given the same resources. This episode is brought to you by Element, a company I've worked with for years. What I respect about Element is that they've always focused on the essentials.

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Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/richroll . It's betterhp.com/richroll. When did you first know this was going to work? You know, I don't think it took you a while to realize that even when it started working, you were still thinking there was no way this was going to keep working. So I think there's always been a certain level of apprehension, like, oh, it's all working. I think, you know, once Footfist Way was done and all that , we started to have All those opportunities. It was like a whirlwind.

But even that didn't exactly go according to plan, right? It wasn't the original idea. You're going to go to Sundance and set the whole world on fire with your talent. Yeah. And then we went and it didn't sell there. Like, you know, we made that movie for 75,000. We shot it in, you know, less than three weeks. And Jody Hill and I had been in Los Angeles for a while at that point, just trying to make a living. And I think we were both at the point where we were realistic and thought, we'd been here a while, but I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, we're in our twenties.

I don't want to look, I do n't want to be here in our forties, pretending like, 'I'm trying to make movies the way I want to.' We have to do it, there's still time to change course. We're young. So, you know, did you have a plan B or not? I did n't have a plan B. I just felt that if we persisted in our effort, we would eventually achieve that success that we were both looking for. So I think for a while we were just out there waiting for someone to find us.

And I think Jody and I had been around long enough to think it was time to show them what we could do. And then, hopefully, opportunities would arise from that. So Will Frell and Adam McKay, as the film circulated, some interesting people saw it . Those guys jumped on it and decided to distribute it. They decided to go ahead with distribution, and that's what really kick-started everything. I mean, I was, you know, doing these interviews for this book and just being guided through their story. It's really crazy, because when that happened , you know, I went from having no work to having that film premiere at Sundance in 2006, and the next year, basically within a year, I signed, uh, Hot Rod, then Drillit Taylor, Heartbreak Kid, Pineapple Express, the pilot for Eastbound, and then Tropic Thunder.

And that's how I went from having absolutely no experience in this industry to that Whatever happened the following year, in a very short period of time because I think when you did Tropic Thunder, I mean, you'd been at it for like a year. I'd been at it for a year. I met Ben on Heartbreak Kid and he showed me the script and wanted to know if I wanted to be involved. And I mean, just meeting Ben Stiller was incredible. I mean, I always loved Ben Stiller.

And I loved him as a director, too. I thought, actually, I loved the movie Cable Guy when it came out. I remember thinking how dark and awesome it was, and, well, the idea that he was doing a movie like that, I remember reading it and going, "That's incredible." I love its scope. It's so funny, and he's going to direct it. Yeah, it was a truly shocking time to be involved in that. I mean, I remember going to the table read for that and just, like, the whole thing was just insane.

Yeah, a row of talent killers would tremble every time my guy had to speak, like, " Oh, God." Well, it's a classic movie, and that was really The golden age of sitcoms; they're so rare and hard to find these days because the culture has completely changed. It seems like all the comedic sensibility is now on television, and obviously, that's the arena where you're most comfortable. Why do you think that is? Why don't we see what happened with Wedding Crashers and There's Something About Mary and all that stuff we used to see quite regularly?

Coming out? You know, I...you know, I'm not...I think there are probably a lot of reasons. I think television has allowed comedy to work really well when it's niche. You know, when people are very specific about their sensibilities, and there's always something about you and your friends finding that odd comedy that resonates with you, you know, and it becomes your shared language. And I think television has allowed that. It's allowed you to have all these really unique voices: from the Nathan Fielders, the Tim Robinsons, to Eric Andre.

And you know, this material is very specific and very funny. And , uh, if all that had than to reduce it to a four-quadrant movie in theaters that would work for everyone, who knows if those voices would still be so funny by the time it did, you know? So, I definitely think that's given comedians an opportunity to be really specific and find their audience , and succeed at it. But I also think it just so happened that this group of guys who had the power, they all got rich and stopped making comedies at the same time, you know?

And then it was like, I think, it just suddenly dropped, like everyone wanted to make serious movies, but in the end, and you know, it's not like just anyone could make Tropic Thunder . Ben Stiller was able to make Tropic Thunder because he had worked hard and respected the industry and had a track record of hits. And that was a time when , you know, I think people thought they would n't do that now, but I don't think they were looking to do that then. I think it was because Ben wanted to do that, as the movie was made.

It really is, and it is, but again, it's like you need to, not the What would you have done if it weren't for him, with his track record, driving something so provocative, so cool, and so competent? At the end of the day, it also feels like when you're making a feature film, there's a lot of money involved, and that means the studio executives are going to start wondering if the lead is likable and things like that. And when, at the same time, shows like The Sopranos are gaining popularity in the cable television space , you see an opportunity to explore more antihero-type figures .

I don't know if you would ever consider your protagonists as antiheroes, but you 're certainly not thinking about how likable they are to the audience at the time you 're creating them. I mean, they possess a humanity, and obviously, you feel affection for these people, so you're not judging them at any point. But the point is, you 're pushing people to get on board with these particular individuals' projects. That, that 100%, and I think that way of telling stories with those kinds of people, I think it was a response to that same note that Everyone was constantly telling us that the characters had to be likable enough.

And Jody, David, and I, you know, going to film school, we really responded to those movies from the '70s where you had complicated characters, you know, Jack Nicholson in Five Easy Pieces or Riptor Torn in Payday or even Dairo in Taxi Driver. They weren't exactly likable people, but those movies were amazing, they impacted us, and they told stories that felt different, that felt unique, and they didn't seem like anything you'd seen before. Well, I think when we started getting into it, you'd think, especially back then too, I think in the '90s, early 2000s, a lot of the comedy was the "He won't grow up" or "He's unlucky in love" type, and, you know, which can be fruitful for comedy, but it also seemed like it had come a long way, that it was like you had to find, uh, a comedy engine that wasn't just a guy looking for a girl, you know .

that there had to be more. And I think when we started focusing on that perspective, on someone who's in a crisis in their life and isn't just focused on whether they'll find love or lose their virginity. It's like their whole worldview is being shattered or they're not who they think they are. It just started to seem like a more dangerous area to tell a story in, or something you could do that was a little more original. It seems like there's a lot of blank space for the Kane Parsons of comedy to suddenly appear right now and rewrite that whole narrative and come up with something we've never even thought of before.

I think it's just going to be a matter of time , inevitably. I think that's exactly what's going to happen because right now it's kind of like horror science fiction. But horror and comedy are, I think, more aligned. I mean, obviously you've written about horror and you've made these horror movies, but I think they're more like bedfellows than people realize. I think they definitely are. And I don't think it's a coincidence that you have, you know, guys like Jordan Peele and Zack Keller, who, well... You know, they started in comedy and now they're successful in horror.

I think ultimately, my take on it is that you're creating a journey for people, and whether the outcome is that you make them jump or you make them laugh, you're thinking about your pacing; you're thinking about how to get them to trust you into believing that something is going to happen , and then completely surprise them with something else entirely. And I think when you look at stories through that mentality of architecture and structure, uh, you know , it's, I don't know, it's a fun way to tell a story.

How does the process work for you? Does it start with, you know, you see a guy or you overhear a conversation at Costco or something and you make a little note, or it's a narrative that pops into your head, or it's a character, and then how do you take that and develop it into something that will work on screen? You know, whenever I have an idea for something, I just open a document on my computer and freely write down anything, like, okay, just, you know, and it doesn't even have to be fully formed.

It can be a scene where my enthusiasm runs out and I just draw a line and jump to something else. And I just dabble in a concept like that for a while. And then, usually, if you have like a scene or two that's like, "Oh, I like what this is." I like what this is doing. "And then, I kind of start building things from there and figuring out what works, and, you know, I feel like that's part of my past; I've been finding things that way.

But once I commit to a story, everything I take in ends up just being my way of looking at the world to see how the things I see can influence what I'm trying to write, you know? So, if it's gemstones and we're working on that, suddenly everything I see in my day-to- day life is kind of a processing, like, 'How can this influence what I 'm doing?' And I don't know, it creates a kind of weird alchemy because you start looking at life and the situations you're in, like, 'I'm working on this story, and suddenly I'm in this grocery store at the same time as this random person, and the pants they're wearing make me laugh.'" " So now the pants my character on the show is going to be like this, and that moment would never have happened unless I hadn't paid attention to my life and seen how the things around me can influence what I 'm working on for Gems.

Did you like to drop by Megaurch services or interview any of these pastors? I interviewed some, I interviewed some different Megaurch pastors. And this was before I had actually written anything. You know, when I moved to Charleston, there was a big adjustment going from Los Angeles to Charleston. You know, growing up in the South, I knew what I was getting into, but it was very different . I mean, even driving, I would often get in the car and try to learn about the city. And I would take these long drives, you know, driving around, getting lost, trying to figure out all the roads and where everything was and what was around.

And I really couldn't get the idea out of my head how many churches I was seeing. I was like, ' Oh, this is crazy.'" I hadn't really thought about that. "That's it. But in Los Angeles, it just wasn't, you know, it wasn't as prevalent as it is here. They were everywhere. And even on the radio, it was like every other station was religious. And that got me thinking about church, my upbringing, and how I was raised. And it got me wondering how it was different from when I was raised.

So I started researching these megachurches and seeing how they operated and what the services were like. And yeah, and from there I thought I wanted to talk to people who were part of this world and learn about the process, how these things are structured, how they're built, and how they do it. Also, it's another one of the pillars of American society: sports, education, and now religion. Yeah . What's left? We've got politics. There's your VEP, which is waiting for you right now. Although we're already watching episodes every day.

That's great, man. It's a very sharp look at how ridiculous it is how we live our lives. And I imagine that in this press conference you 're in right now, It's like, okay, you're exposing the weaknesses of modern American man. People say, "Okay, Danny, what 's the solution?" "This is your self-help guru moment, you know? You know what? I don't have the answers. I feel like we've been pointing to these kinds of people for a long time. We know this is the case; I think we just saw where the culture was headed and where our ideas about what it takes to be a solid guy were going.

I don't know what was expected or what the end result is , and honestly, I don't have the answers for that. I mean, in these kinds of stories, the answer usually lies with the individual; in accepting who they are , what they want, and coming to terms with the idea that life isn't always going to be about what you think you need. Given this, how do you make sense of the so-called manosphere and these characters like Andrew Tate, clvicular, or looksmaxxing, especially as a parent concerned about the impact you have?

I know these people, the kind of influence they have on young people. Yes. Luckily, my kids haven't been drawn to any of that." Things, and I don't really even know that much about them, other than what I like to, you know, hear, you know, here and there. These people are talking directly about your characters. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean , you know, in my house, I really try to limit my kids' access to all this stuff, you know, and be present in their lives. So, if they hear someone's view of the world, I hope it's mine and my wife's, my wife's, and not some stranger online, but inevitably it is...

But even outside of your house, just about the culture, you know, in general. Yeah. I think maybe that's part of the advantage of being in Charleston, it's like we live on a creek and the kids in our neighborhood like to fish and they like to, you know, get out on the water and, uh, I don't know. I don't see it as that pervasive. I guess it is . I think it's just a reaction to the existential crisis that all these people are going through. Like there's a void in their lives And then someone comes along and says they're going to solve this problem for you.

You have to sign up for my academy or whatever, and here are the 12 steps, and then you can be, you know, in your masculinity expressed to the fullest. And it's always rooted in grievance, too. You know, it's someone else's fault . It's not your fault. And you have to reclaim your power. And it takes advantage of the vulnerability of … I feel like that's what everyone does in the end, isn't it? I mean, isn't that right? That could be it. That's something religion has done for years and years, you know, for generations of people, that everyone is always looking for the answers outside of themselves .

And I think that, with access to the internet, it's obvious there are more people you can reach and give the answers to. And I think that's exactly what we're facing right now, right? I mean , people are always looking to find the answers, and it's a question of whether they align themselves with the right person who will give them the answers. real, or if they're going to, you know, get caught up in something that will ultimately upend them. Here on the podcast, optimizing our lives is something that comes up a lot.

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You know, the funny thing is, I think because I was very firm when we did that show, I never wanted the joke to be about religion. I didn't want the joke to be about people's beliefs. You know, I really wanted the joke to be about this family and their level of hypocrisy. But I did n't want to portray it as if that's how everyone who's religious behaves or acts. And I really didn't want jokes about things like, "Is n't this crazy? These people believe this." Like I never wanted that to be part of the story.

And I think because of that, we were able to get religious people to watch that show too, because I don't think they felt like they were the butt of the joke. You know, I think if you're very religious, you see people with Precious stones in your world, and I don't think you necessarily like it. You know, I think there are false prophets that have existed for a very long time, and it's something that people can identify with, and, well, I feel like that really worked on our behavior to our benefit.

I spoke with a pastor from a megachurch before there was even a concept in the press about what the show was. And this family was very gracious to me, and they showed me, well, basically, how this operation worked and what their thought process was behind church planning. And it was really enlightening. It was a great conversation to have with them about how they approached building churches and where they decided to locate them. And, well, I did the show. I did n't see that pastor again for years and years.

And then I ran into him once, and I was like, "Oh, God, this is after the show ended ." And I was like, "Oh, God, what will this conversation be like?" "." And he came closer and whispered something to me. He said, "You know, I can't tell people I saw it, but you nailed it. You're like the secret guilty pleasure of the die-hard evangelical." It's hilarious, dude. The book has 10 stories. It's a kind of anthology , you know, the misadventures of modern man. Why do it that way?

Why not write a novel? Did you have too many threads spinning in your head, or do I think it was a bit of a creative response to what I was trying to change? I wrote about Gems for seven years and I loved writing on that series. I love writing about those characters, but it's been seven years where every time you sit down to create, you do it through the lens of those characters from this world. And I think I just had a lot of ideas. So for me, it was kind of like...I liked the idea of ​​being able to think of something, you know, lots of different ideas, lots of different characters.

And with each story, I didn't have to , you know, writing for television is so important that each episode is a part of the story and then they all connect to tell a bigger story and each season tells an even bigger story. It was nice to be able to jump into a story and take it to completion, and that's what it is, you know, and then you can jump to the next one and start from a completely different place. And there was something fun about not committing to just one story, but being able to really explore many different ideas and different types of people.

However, they all occupy the same world. I feel like all your characters live in this. They could all be, you know, they could all be interacting with each other. There's a whole universe of possibilities that could expand much further in that place, you know? And the stories are great, man. You know, like it starts with him, That divorced and frustrated man who decides to become a magician and plans to get into a cube in the mall, suspended from a crane; It's completely crazy, it's about the former comedy actor.

It's just that they all have these strange twists and turns, and then everything goes absolutely crazy. It's very well done, man. Super nice. I mean, and there's something lasting about writing a book, you know, that's different from... I mean, it's great that younger people are becoming aware of Eastbound and Down, etc., and some of the work you've done has a longer lifespan, but a book is something completely different. It's been really interesting because, you know, I was talking to my wife about it. It's like I haven't done things that people have seen before, but this is different.

Even my friends, who roll their eyes at anything. Something new I have, like: "Yes, of course. Another TV show. Great job, Danny." This is like saying something like, " You wrote a book, man." It's kind of an achievement. Yes. I don't know. David Gordon Green said that your media diet basically consists of being a voracious reader of great books and then watching the trashiest reality shows . So it's like a high-level and low-level approach. But you know, people might be surprised that you're such an avid reader and that this is what you dedicate most of your free time to.

You know, I love stories and storytelling. I've always loved them, so I read because I love seeing how people build stories or how people tell stories to follow the path that someone has built and embark on that journey. I love it. Yes. Yes. And with television, my way of watching television is crazy because I find it very difficult to invest in television programs. And I'm usually always behind on all the things everyone says are amazing because you're [ __ ] busy. You 're doing it. It is.

And then, when I sit down at night, I just don't want to... I don't want to be stuck in a place where I have to watch something like a reality show that I can only half-pay attention to. And, honestly, all of this is great character work. It's like you're seeing all those disasters. You're seeing all those ways that people position themselves in group dynamics and I find it really entertaining. Do you think any of the stories in the book could be developed into film or television projects, or is that just how they are?

You know, I was approaching it like that . But now that I've definitely gotten past that point, there are some stories here that make me think, " Oh, I'd like to do more." "And you know, one thing that was really fun about this is that we did the audiobook for this, and I'd never done anything like that before. I'd never read an audiobook, and that process was really fun, and I was able to get a bunch of really talented people to come in and read these stories.

There were people doing the voices of the different cars. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Like Walton Gogggins reads, and Goodman, some of our Adam Divine and Edy, but then I've got Sam Rockwell and Billy Croup and, uh, Sturgil Simpson and Eric Andre and Shane Gillis and all of them, you know, reading these different stories. And I even have my composer, Joey Stevens, who does all the music for our shows. He created kind of, you know, a soundtrack for each of the stories that takes you in and out, and I think it's a really fun way to experience this book.

It really is. And just hearing the actors bring these characters to life, it definitely inspired me to think, like, yeah, it might not be a bad thing to see some of this stuff taken further. You're also an entrepreneur. I mean , you started this It's a company, and it allows you to do what you want to do, like work within the system, but outside of it. It's like a dream situation , but at the same time, you're running a business. You have all these people whose salaries I guess you're semi-responsible for .

I mean, there are a lot of projects you guys have done, but it's a whole business on top of all of this. It really is. And especially moving to Charleston, you know, part of the idea behind that was, you know, we had always filmed eastward in the South. We filmed early Vice in the South, kind of providing a lot of work year after year for a lot of people in that region. So to be able to take something like Gemstones there and give the very talented people in that part of the country a stable job in their own backyard where they didn't have to travel to another state to find work was really incredible.

And then, when Gemstones wrapped up and it came time to write this book, I felt the weight of knowing that there were so many people looking for work; I felt like we had to find something, because they're not working while you're writing a book, and that creates a very heavy burden. Big. Yes. Exactly. And that's what I felt last year. I definitely felt like I wanted... I didn't want people to start looking for other jobs. There were so many talented people we 've worked with for years.

And so much of the production goes overseas or to other countries, and yeah, I think it's important to keep things here and give people in this country the opportunity to work on these projects. And I loved that we were able to do things in South Carolina. There are people who probably feel like they're very far removed from the entertainment industry and they're showing up to be extras and it's their first experience with anything, and you know, they know what that inspires them to do, and I like trying to create those situations for people.

What do you think about the future of media? I mean, here in Los Angeles, there's just a constant conversation about, like, AI and how, you know, production has fled Los Angeles and the economy is sinking and all these people who, you know, were basically middle class, people employed within the studio system and their various jobs, are disappearing, and, you know, what's going to become of this industry? You're kind of in your own little bubble doing your thing, and it seems like everything's going fantastically well for you.

But we feel it even out there. I mean, you know, people aren't buying as much stuff. There isn't as much action out there. I mean, we definitely feel it too. And, yeah, I mean, you know what? I have no idea. I mean, I definitely think it's a scary time in the industry, but I really think that at the end of the day, people aren't going to get tired of seeing and hearing stories, and ultimately, the business is going to have to find its own way and fix itself.

But it's really amazing to see something like Obsession, which was made for $750,000, and the reach it can have, and I hope it inspires more people to approach filmmaking in that way. It's gotten young people excited about going to the movies. I remember perfectly when I started film school back in '95, it was like that The year Pulp Fiction would have come out. Everything was happening. Yeah. Clerks had just come out. Desperado too. Brothers McMullen, Billy Bob Thornton was making Slingblade. In that short period of time, a bunch of movies appeared out of nowhere.

And that definitely inspired my friends and all of us. So it doesn't take much, I think, to ignite the spark of new talent. I think you just have to see those examples of those kinds of stories breaking through and inspiring a new group of people to try. Yeah. The old guard is always going to lament how things used to be . But I think I'm like 10 years older than you, but I remember perfectly when Sex and the City and Reservoir Dogs came out and there was so much excitement.

It was like, this is new . This is different. These guys are rock stars. And then everyone wanted to be an independent director. And that made people believe they could do it, that Kevin Smith could scrape together five cents and become in office workers. And people like you, who were even younger, could start to, you know, immerse themselves in that dream. Oh, we, you know, were sitting in film school watching those movies, watching Wes Anderson, Owen Wilson, and Luke Wilson make Bottle Rocket, you know, and for us, we lived and breathed that stuff.

I mean, for us, it was like, this is exactly what we want to do, and here are some young people doing it, and, yeah, you shouldn't underestimate the value of just one thing succeeding, what it can generate for other people, and that was a period of time when , even with the lowest budget , it was like, you needed a film, and you needed it. It's like now you don't need any of that, and you don't even need distribution because we all have YouTube, and, you know, we've seen what Kane has done building his audience over time with work that eventually found its way and matured behind the scenes.

But, you know, now it's a completely different time. And, uh, I think there's a lot to celebrate and be excited about. That's I think so too. I think it's never been easier to find an audience, and now we just need those artists to take advantage of it. Yes. So, what's next for you? How are you thinking about your next project? I mean, you're saying that I'm sure Gemstones was exhausting. It was a lot of fun. But yes, it was definitely exhausting, and I definitely needed to decompress after that.

And that's why this book was really perfect, because you know, my hobby is writing, and when I finished Gemstones, I thought I needed to take a break from that level of work, but I still wanted to write. I still wanted to create things, so this was a perfect thing to dedicate my time to. And you know, it's been fun now that it's out there in the world and people can enjoy it. But yes, you know, I have some things at HBO that I'm developing now. And what I'm most excited about is that John Couture and Jeff Rally, two other collaborators of mine on Gemstones, sold our pitch to Paramount to relaunch G.I.

Joe. So we got them a script that has us We're very excited and we're trying to shoot it next year. Yes. You were a G.I. Joe fan as a kid. Cool. I read that. I'm not going to be the guy who asks the artist to explain their work; but if you had to crystallize, you know, that guy you know, it's like each of your characters is a different version of the same guy on some level. Who is that guy and why does he mean so much to you?

Why do you keep coming back to this exploration of the modern American man, focusing on his weaknesses and that very fractured relationship he has with his own masculinity? I don't know, I'm not sure why. I mean, I think my mind goes back, like I said before, to when I was growing up in a town like Sylvesteros, Virginia, where it's just like you're in the everyday world. That 's the world where the stories that appeal to me take place. And, uh, but you want those stories to resonate with people.

That's why I love the idea of characters who live in our world but who They have this kind of epic imagination about how they fit into the world and what they do. It's almost as if all these individuals have read Joseph Campbell and assumed they 're the hero, when the reality is they're not; that's why I find it so interesting to be able to take a character and take them on that kind of journey. And maybe it's because it's the last thing we silently grapple with, and, as you were saying , with people looking to, you know, Clavicular or any of these influencers, it's like everyone is trying to figure out how to win, and that's what it is.

And you have to walk a tightrope to portray these characters in a way that they're not cartoon figures or people you're making fun of. There's always that question of, how do you do it? How do you instill that in them so that we're, in a way, right there with them, and despite all their bad behavior, we want it to work out for them? I think it's about really treating them, about giving them depth. I think that's what it all boils down to. I realize that, in Often, when I'm watching traditional comedies, I always end up laughing for the first 30 minutes of the show.

Then, in the second act, they start giving reasons why you should care; and then, usually by the third act , you're looking at your watch. And you say, " Well, that's it." "I've got the joke." And I think it's all ultimately about making these characters not just vehicles for jokes. Let's make them and make them as funny as possible, but let's inject depth and layers into them so that when you get to the third act, there's something there that the audience actually cares about , that they're excited about, or that they want to see resolved.

And I think that comes from depth. I think that comes from treating them like they're real. And, well, you know, the people I've really enjoyed working with, you know, in front of the camera, like Walton Goggins or Edie Patterson, John Goodman, they're all great actors. And what I love about them is that they never get carried away with emotion based solely on the jokes. They get excited about the idea of how to inject humanity, like Goodman was overflowing with it. And no matter what he 's doing, he'll always end up achieving the same thing.

And so, when I find those kinds of collaborators, that's the perfect recipe for what we're trying to do because at the end of the day, that's what We do n't want people to laugh . We want them to be entertained, but at the end of the day, you want people to care about these people and imagine they could be real. And I don't think it's about justifying that kind of person or what that person does, but I think it has to be that way. We're all capable of empathy, and we all want to understand the people around us, even the worst examples of the people around us.

I think it's better to try to understand why they operate that way rather than just dismissing them. Do you think you can still find satire in our incredibly satirical world? I think so. Yes, I really do. How did you learn to do that? Was it just through experience? Like so many years of working hard, you know, churning out script after script nonstop? I think so. I think with every project I've done, there's always been a sense that when you approach the next one, you're never satisfied with what you've done.

I'm always thinking, "I like this and I like that," but I'm always thinking, " But next time I would..." either this or that, or I would have a character who would do this instead. So I think with all this I'm just trying to push myself to, you know, refine it to make it better, push myself to try something different. And in his day-to-day life, is he more like Steven Presfield, War of Art? I'm a professional, and I'm sitting down, and this is the moment, and nobody bothers me, or is it like you and your colleagues getting high and acting foolish?

No, it definitely is , you know, it used to be that way, sure, but it definitely is, you know, it was so easy to do this job when I didn't have kids, you know, and even my, you know, was just a girlfriend at that time before G and I got married. You could be very selfish with your time and I could, you know, I could work all [ __ ] day until 4:00 in the morning and, you know, I could just dedicate all my time to work, you know, to creating .

And then, when the children arrived, it started to be like, "I don't want to spend so much time on this." I want to get the result, but I also want... I have other jobs now. I want to be there for these children. I want to be a good partner to my wife. I don't want to, you know, postpone all these things just because I'm doing a TV show. I need to find the balance. So, you know, you just end up adapting. And I discovered that what works for me is simply getting up at dawn every day.

I get up at 5:00 in the morning and just play before everyone else wakes up, you know? And then, when the children wake up, I've already started something that keeps my mind active and that excites me. I can sit and be there for them, take them to school and drop them off. Then I go back home and play more. And then simply...Yes. I'm just trying to find the time that works and doesn't leave me isolated while the rest of life goes on and I'm, you know, spouting nonsense and dick jokes.

You have worked with so many brilliant and talented people. What lessons have you learned from, I don't know, people like Will Ferrell, Ben Stiller, Judd Apatow, or maybe someone like Seth Rogen? Of all of them, what are some of the lessons that have been translated and that, in some way, have reached your work and that have been significant for you? You know, one thing I admire about all those guys is that everyone you've mentioned is a really nice person. They really are. And I think you even hear those horror stories about how people can be divas in Hollywood or how they can be ruthless.

And with all those guys, there was always a sense of camaraderie. You know, Jud and Seth and their group, there were a lot of guys who were always on those sets, who were there for Freaks and Geeks. And they were all, you know, friends and colleagues. And, you know, Stiller has his team and, you know, Will had, you know, there were a lot of friends who were in that circle. And I liked that because I felt that it spoke to my experience with my friends, that you can do this job and it's more fun to do it with friends, and it's more fun to give colleagues opportunities and be loyal to people.

What advice do you give to young people, young filmmakers, and aspiring writers? The advice I received right when I moved to Los Angeles came from someone I had the opportunity to meet. He was working from his Toyota Corolla and was watching me to see if I wanted to represent me as a writer, but in the end he decided not to. I want to do it. But the advice he gave me was : "Well, what do you think? How do I start here?" He said, "Look, you're not going to be doing what you want to do for a long time.

Find a job that you know you'll be okay with in the meantime and that doesn't make you want to kill yourself." And then he left and I thought, "Damn, this is going to be harder than I thought." "And, uh, but I think that was really solid advice because sometimes I think, you know , not to rely on your art to pay the bills. Yeah. And knowing that there will be different seasons in your relationship with your art, you know, and maybe in the beginning, just getting that proximity might be, even though it seems like the right decision, like having to live in Los Angeles, where it's happening.

But if allowing yourself to live in Los Angeles means you have to work 16 hours a day and you're, you know, living with four other people in an apartment, you know, that might not be the most conducive way for you to ultimately write or accomplish what you need to do. So, I think it's like finding a niche for yourself where you can actually live a fulfilling life and find inspiration and figure out how to pay the bills. And it might mean not being in the center of an expensive city.

It might mean, you know, living somewhere that's cheaper and figuring out how to create your masterpiece outside the system. And what feeling do you want people to have after reading your book? Honestly, I hope they're entertained." I mean, reading has been something I've been passionate about since I was a little kid. I started reading Stephen King when I was in elementary school. I've always loved books. I've always loved being in the middle of stories. And I think in this age where screens are so prevalent and there's a constant flow of information coming at us and we see it all, for me, books have been a good antidote to that.

You know, whenever I feel like I want to scroll or look at something I have no control over and I get angry about it, I find it's more helpful to put it down and pick up a story and a book. And I think, in general, it relaxes you. It puts you in a mental state that... I don't know. My life just always seems healthier when I'm in the middle of a good story. Who are you guys? Aside from King, I grew up listening to all kinds of horror.

I think that's what got me into reading. Because it didn't feel like a chore. I was always interested in horror and thrillers, always curious to know what was going to happen. And so It was the way that, as a kid, I wasn't intimidated by the total number of pages. I'd stop paying attention to the pages because I just wanted to know what was going to happen. But as I got older, I love Larry McMerry, I love Cormick McCarthy, George Saunders, I love Jack Vance, this fantasy writer, I love Jim Thompson, you know.

Yeah. I really went through a lot of different writers. When you first started writing horror, you did The Exorcist, the Halloween movies. What did you have to learn or unlearn being so, you know, a bit of a comedy buff? You know, it's interesting because even when we write our comedies, we don't write them like they're comedies. We write them like they're serious, you know, and then we find ways to inject humor. But a lot of times we cut the jokes from the scripts just because we feel like we're crossing too far a line.

So I think in that sense we approached that first Halloween the same way we would approach anything else. You know, what's the Story? How do we get it? Who are these characters? How do we make them real? Same principles. Same principles. Yeah. This has been great, man. Thanks for having me here. The weather is amazing. The sun's even out . Thank you. Thanks for traveling all the way here . From Pennsylvania. Yeah, to be here with me today. It's a pleasure talking to you, and, uh, congratulations on the book, man.

You've done a terrific job. It's [ __ ] awesome. And, uh, I'm sure people are going to love it. I mean, it just came out this Tuesday, right? This Tuesday. Yeah. So, in a week and a half, when people finish reading it, they're going to be like, "What does this guy think he's doing?" " But when does the audiobook come out? The audiobook's already out. Oh, it's already out. I didn't know that. I thought it was still being worked on. Yeah. No, the turnaround time is fast.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. There's no shipping either. No, there's no shipping. Uh, okay, man. Well, I wish you the best of luck and hope you make a profit on all your sales, buddy. Thanks, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate it."

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