Chronic Stress Is Aging Your Body Faster Than Smoking (Here's How To Reverse It) | Dr Elissa Epel

You've done some research suggesting You've done some research suggesting that chronic stress can age the body by that chronic stress can age the body by that chronic stress can age the body by as much as 10 years. That's quite a as much as 10 years. That's quite a as much as 10 years. That's quite a staggering statistic. staggering statistic. staggering statistic. >> Yes. So, >> Yes. So, >> Yes. So, the telomere is this the telomere is this the telomere is this structure made of base pairs. It sits at structure made of base pairs. It sits at structure made of base pairs. It sits at the ends of chromosomes and it protects the ends of chromosomes and it protects the ends of chromosomes and it protects them. So, telomeres are one of our many them. So, telomeres are one of our many them. So, telomeres are one of our many biological clocks. biological clocks. biological clocks. And they do shorten as cells divide over And they do shorten as cells divide over And they do shorten as cells divide over time, but they also shorten based on the time, but they also shorten based on the time, but they also shorten based on the level of wear and tear or physical level of wear and tear or physical level of wear and tear or physical stress in a cell. stress in a cell. stress in a cell. We statistically can say with confidence We statistically can say with confidence We statistically can say with confidence shorter telomeres predicts more shorter telomeres predicts more shorter telomeres predicts more likelihood of early disease, early likelihood of early disease, early likelihood of early disease, early mortality, slower wound healing. mortality, slower wound healing. mortality, slower wound healing. And when we first started studying And when we first started studying And when we first started studying telomeres, telomeres, telomeres, we did this calculation where we know we did this calculation where we know we did this calculation where we know exactly how many base pairs we lose per exactly how many base pairs we lose per exactly how many base pairs we lose per year. And thus we can quantify how much year. And thus we can quantify how much year. And thus we can quantify how much extra aging or additional base pairs extra aging or additional base pairs extra aging or additional base pairs people lose when they're under chronic people lose when they're under chronic people lose when they're under chronic stress. And that's how we came up with stress. And that's how we came up with stress. And that's how we came up with that statistic that there was 10 that statistic that there was 10 that statistic that there was 10 additional years of aging additional years of aging additional years of aging in terms of the immune system. But, our in terms of the immune system. But, our in terms of the immune system. But, our lifestyle changes actually can lifestyle changes actually can lifestyle changes actually can boost this protective enzyme that can boost this protective enzyme that can boost this protective enzyme that can lengthen telomeres. And so, if you study lengthen telomeres. And so, if you study lengthen telomeres. And so, if you study someone over time, you actually see that someone over time, you actually see that someone over time, you actually see that they're they're they're much more dynamic and that nothing is much more dynamic and that nothing is much more dynamic and that nothing is determined or written in stone. And determined or written in stone. And determined or written in stone. And anytime in life, any day, we can start anytime in life, any day, we can start anytime in life, any day, we can start to reverse damage and boost all of the to reverse damage and boost all of the to reverse damage and boost all of the restorative restorative restorative enzymes and processes in a cell and enzymes and processes in a cell and enzymes and processes in a cell and lengthen our telomeres. lengthen our telomeres. lengthen our telomeres. >> Does that therefore mean that if we >> Does that therefore mean that if we >> Does that therefore mean that if we focus more on relaxation in our lives, focus more on relaxation in our lives, focus more on relaxation in our lives, and we can of course and we can of course and we can of course elaborate as to what we mean by that. elaborate as to what we mean by that. elaborate as to what we mean by that. Are we therefore then able to slow down Are we therefore then able to slow down Are we therefore then able to slow down the aging process in the same way? the aging process in the same way? the aging process in the same way? >> Absolutely. And >> Absolutely. And >> Absolutely. And it's not just that we're not it's not just that we're not it's not just that we're not experiencing stress, but when we put experiencing stress, but when we put experiencing stress, but when we put ourselves into a state of rest ourselves into a state of rest ourselves into a state of rest and even more so deep rest, and even more so deep rest, and even more so deep rest, now it's time to restore and repair. And now it's time to restore and repair. And now it's time to restore and repair. And so that happens at night when we sleep, so that happens at night when we sleep, so that happens at night when we sleep, and that needs to happen more in the and that needs to happen more in the and that needs to happen more in the day. I think we've lost the siesta. day. I think we've lost the siesta. day. I think we've lost the siesta. We've lost a culture where it's okay to We've lost a culture where it's okay to We've lost a culture where it's okay to lie down in the middle of the day or lie down in the middle of the day or lie down in the middle of the day or have leisure time be a regular part of have leisure time be a regular part of have leisure time be a regular part of the day. And so we're in a the day. And so we're in a the day. And so we're in a in a sense, this grind culture is in a sense, this grind culture is in a sense, this grind culture is grinding down our telomeres more quickly grinding down our telomeres more quickly grinding down our telomeres more quickly as well. as well. as well. When we rest, we turn on telomerase, the When we rest, we turn on telomerase, the When we rest, we turn on telomerase, the enzyme that repairs telomeres. We also enzyme that repairs telomeres. We also enzyme that repairs telomeres. We also turn on other restorative mechanisms, turn on other restorative mechanisms, turn on other restorative mechanisms, such as DNA repair mechanisms and such as DNA repair mechanisms and such as DNA repair mechanisms and the cleanup crew in the cell that cleans the cleanup crew in the cell that cleans the cleanup crew in the cell that cleans up junk, repairs proteins. up junk, repairs proteins. up junk, repairs proteins. And we also turn on the anabolic And we also turn on the anabolic And we also turn on the anabolic hormones, the the sex hormones, the the hormones, the the sex hormones, the the hormones, the the sex hormones, the the steroids that actually create growth and steroids that actually create growth and steroids that actually create growth and maintenance. maintenance. maintenance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If I reflect on my career as a medical If I reflect on my career as a medical If I reflect on my career as a medical doctor, doctor, doctor, I don't think that I don't think that I don't think that stress per se stress per se stress per se was really on my radar was really on my radar was really on my radar at the start of my career. But at the start of my career. But at the start of my career. But I soon started to realize that wow, I soon started to realize that wow, I soon started to realize that wow, unmanaged stress that goes on for a unmanaged stress that goes on for a unmanaged stress that goes on for a prolonged period of time prolonged period of time prolonged period of time can have quite devastating effects on can have quite devastating effects on can have quite devastating effects on human biology. And I guess when I really human biology. And I guess when I really human biology. And I guess when I really saw this was with my my my dad. saw this was with my my my dad. saw this was with my my my dad. And to cut a long story short, for 30 And to cut a long story short, for 30 And to cut a long story short, for 30 years years years my dad only slept 3 nights a week. He my dad only slept 3 nights a week. He my dad only slept 3 nights a week. He was a consultant physician in Manchester was a consultant physician in Manchester was a consultant physician in Manchester Royal Infirmary, Royal Infirmary, Royal Infirmary, but also when he got home in the but also when he got home in the but also when he got home in the evening, evening, evening, he would get picked up in a car and be he would get picked up in a car and be he would get picked up in a car and be doing uh family doctor house calls all doing uh family doctor house calls all doing uh family doctor house calls all night. night. night. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Four nights a week. >> Four nights a week. >> Four nights a week. And I didn't know, you know, dad got And I didn't know, you know, dad got And I didn't know, you know, dad got lupus, he had kidney failure, he lupus, he had kidney failure, he lupus, he had kidney failure, he ultimately died in 2013. ultimately died in 2013. ultimately died in 2013. I've learned so much about the impacts I've learned so much about the impacts I've learned so much about the impacts of chronic stress since my dad died. of chronic stress since my dad died. of chronic stress since my dad died. I know that his lifestyle ultimately is I know that his lifestyle ultimately is I know that his lifestyle ultimately is one of the reasons why he's not here one of the reasons why he's not here one of the reasons why he's not here today. today. today. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. That's heartbreaking and uh that was his That's heartbreaking and uh that was his That's heartbreaking and uh that was his normal normal normal default mode, you know, it became what default mode, you know, it became what default mode, you know, it became what he was used to. he was used to. he was used to. If we are living a lifestyle of chronic If we are living a lifestyle of chronic If we are living a lifestyle of chronic stress, stress, stress, we tend to become numb to the feelings we tend to become numb to the feelings we tend to become numb to the feelings and thoughts of stress and to the body and thoughts of stress and to the body and thoughts of stress and to the body signals. We don't read them anymore signals. We don't read them anymore signals. We don't read them anymore because it's our default mode and so because it's our default mode and so because it's our default mode and so I think we're I think we're I think we're as a society in general living with an as a society in general living with an as a society in general living with an epidemic of chronic stress. epidemic of chronic stress. epidemic of chronic stress. The baseline level of arousal for people The baseline level of arousal for people The baseline level of arousal for people is not let's say normal, it's not a resting let's say normal, it's not a resting state, it is a state, it is a state, it is a subtle state of chronic stress. subtle state of chronic stress. subtle state of chronic stress. And And And some people, of course, many people some people, of course, many people some people, of course, many people feel feel feel the thoughts of the feelings, the the thoughts of the feelings, the the thoughts of the feelings, the subjective stress, feeling overwhelmed, subjective stress, feeling overwhelmed, subjective stress, feeling overwhelmed, feeling worried, but other people don't. feeling worried, but other people don't. feeling worried, but other people don't. And yet their body is still under the And yet their body is still under the And yet their body is still under the state of chronic stress, state of chronic stress, state of chronic stress, but they're not uh but they're not uh but they're not uh they're not denying it, they just don't they're not denying it, they just don't they're not denying it, they just don't notice it anymore. They're They're so notice it anymore. They're They're so notice it anymore. They're They're so used to it. So, I think there there's a used to it. So, I think there there's a used to it. So, I think there there's a uh uh uh question about like what is our true question about like what is our true question about like what is our true baseline? Are we under chronic stress? baseline? Are we under chronic stress? baseline? Are we under chronic stress? We can ask ourselves how stressed we We can ask ourselves how stressed we We can ask ourselves how stressed we feel and that's how we measure it in feel and that's how we measure it in feel and that's how we measure it in studies, you know, rate on a one through studies, you know, rate on a one through studies, you know, rate on a one through 10 scale 10 scale 10 scale whether you feel moderately stressed in whether you feel moderately stressed in whether you feel moderately stressed in the middle of five or extremely stressed the middle of five or extremely stressed the middle of five or extremely stressed at 10. at 10. at 10. But when it's day after day, you know, But when it's day after day, you know, But when it's day after day, you know, we just adjust our baseline. we just adjust our baseline. we just adjust our baseline. >> Yeah. One of the things I loved in your book, One of the things I loved in your book, The Stress Prescription, was the way you The Stress Prescription, was the way you The Stress Prescription, was the way you describe these different states that we describe these different states that we describe these different states that we can be in as it relates to stress, red can be in as it relates to stress, red can be in as it relates to stress, red mind, yellow mind, green mind, and blue mind, yellow mind, green mind, and blue mind, yellow mind, green mind, and blue minds. minds. minds. So perhaps now would be a good time for So perhaps now would be a good time for So perhaps now would be a good time for you to explain you to explain you to explain first of all, what is stress? What's first of all, what is stress? What's first of all, what is stress? What's what's the point of the stress response, what's the point of the stress response, what's the point of the stress response, you know, because it clearly serves a you know, because it clearly serves a you know, because it clearly serves a role in our bodies or we wouldn't have role in our bodies or we wouldn't have role in our bodies or we wouldn't have it. it. it. And then from there it would be really And then from there it would be really And then from there it would be really fun to explore these different mind fun to explore these different mind fun to explore these different mind states because I think it helps us states because I think it helps us states because I think it helps us understand understand understand where we might be living. And as you say where we might be living. And as you say where we might be living. And as you say do many of us even know what it's like do many of us even know what it's like do many of us even know what it's like to really feel deep relaxation anymore? to really feel deep relaxation anymore? to really feel deep relaxation anymore? I think many people just don't, right? I think many people just don't, right? I think many people just don't, right? So perhaps we can just start with, you So perhaps we can just start with, you So perhaps we can just start with, you know, what is stress and then move on to know, what is stress and then move on to know, what is stress and then move on to these different mind states. these different mind states. these different mind states. >> Yes, that sounds great. I really like >> Yes, that sounds great. I really like >> Yes, that sounds great. I really like the mind states because it opens the the mind states because it opens the the mind states because it opens the door to us door to us door to us having a labeling system, pretty simple having a labeling system, pretty simple having a labeling system, pretty simple label system of four mind states and label system of four mind states and label system of four mind states and checking in with our body and seeing checking in with our body and seeing checking in with our body and seeing where we're at. And that's step one. If where we're at. And that's step one. If where we're at. And that's step one. If we can turn on the light of awareness we can turn on the light of awareness we can turn on the light of awareness we can then we can then we can then measure, manage, monitor, and reduce measure, manage, monitor, and reduce measure, manage, monitor, and reduce stress. And that sounds like a lot of stress. And that sounds like a lot of stress. And that sounds like a lot of work, but we can do that within minutes. work, but we can do that within minutes. work, but we can do that within minutes. So the beauty of feelings of stress is So the beauty of feelings of stress is So the beauty of feelings of stress is that they are absolutely malleable and that they are absolutely malleable and that they are absolutely malleable and we can change our physiological stress we can change our physiological stress we can change our physiological stress as well as our emotional stress as well as our emotional stress as well as our emotional stress within 5 minutes. So these subtle small within 5 minutes. So these subtle small within 5 minutes. So these subtle small changes every day that you talk about a changes every day that you talk about a changes every day that you talk about a lot and and many of your speakers lot and and many of your speakers lot and and many of your speakers are are are really the medicine. They are critical really the medicine. They are critical really the medicine. They are critical for us to bringing down our for us to bringing down our for us to bringing down our elevated excessively elevated elevated excessively elevated elevated excessively elevated unnecessary feelings of stress. unnecessary feelings of stress. unnecessary feelings of stress. So that we can actually So that we can actually So that we can actually really tap into deeper living. So that's really tap into deeper living. So that's really tap into deeper living. So that's where the mind states come in. The first where the mind states come in. The first where the mind states come in. The first mind state is well sorry, you asked me mind state is well sorry, you asked me mind state is well sorry, you asked me what is stress? what is stress? what is stress? We are all experts on stress because we We are all experts on stress because we We are all experts on stress because we live with so much stress. We know what live with so much stress. We know what live with so much stress. We know what we do to manage it. We all want to we do to manage it. We all want to we do to manage it. We all want to manage it better. You can't get rid of manage it better. You can't get rid of manage it better. You can't get rid of it. It is the it. It is the it. It is the fundamental fundamental fundamental survival survival survival neurobiological and body wiring that neurobiological and body wiring that neurobiological and body wiring that keeps us able to adapt to the keeps us able to adapt to the keeps us able to adapt to the ever-changing environment. So we we need ever-changing environment. So we we need ever-changing environment. So we we need to be flexible and responsive and that to be flexible and responsive and that to be flexible and responsive and that is beautiful and healthy. So the stress is beautiful and healthy. So the stress is beautiful and healthy. So the stress response in a young healthy organism is response in a young healthy organism is response in a young healthy organism is a low baseline, a really high peak a low baseline, a really high peak a low baseline, a really high peak response and a quick shutoff. That response and a quick shutoff. That response and a quick shutoff. That dynamic flexible let's mobilize energy dynamic flexible let's mobilize energy dynamic flexible let's mobilize energy when we need it and then let's recover when we need it and then let's recover when we need it and then let's recover when we don't need it and that shutoff when we don't need it and that shutoff when we don't need it and that shutoff of course is hard when we carry mental of course is hard when we carry mental of course is hard when we carry mental stress. stress. stress. Um so the acute stress response is Um so the acute stress response is Um so the acute stress response is beautiful and necessary and that's how beautiful and necessary and that's how beautiful and necessary and that's how we adapt so beautifully to demands we adapt so beautifully to demands we adapt so beautifully to demands and that shifting up and down is so and that shifting up and down is so and that shifting up and down is so important but we lose that ability to to important but we lose that ability to to important but we lose that ability to to quickly downshift and when we're under quickly downshift and when we're under quickly downshift and when we're under chronic stress we can't even upregulate chronic stress we can't even upregulate chronic stress we can't even upregulate stress response normally. We we a stress response normally. We we a stress response normally. We we a blunted stress response. blunted stress response. blunted stress response. So, acute stress is a different animal So, acute stress is a different animal So, acute stress is a different animal and let's talk about normal daily acute and let's talk about normal daily acute and let's talk about normal daily acute stress. It is our friend. It is our body stress. It is our friend. It is our body stress. It is our friend. It is our body being excited and responsive and being excited and responsive and being excited and responsive and enabling us to really adapt flexibly to enabling us to really adapt flexibly to enabling us to really adapt flexibly to demands and perform well. demands and perform well. demands and perform well. So, that's the red mind state is that So, that's the red mind state is that So, that's the red mind state is that acute stress. Um that's healthy and we acute stress. Um that's healthy and we acute stress. Um that's healthy and we have it every day. Now, when we of have it every day. Now, when we of have it every day. Now, when we of course are having that too much or we're course are having that too much or we're course are having that too much or we're in these situations where we just can't in these situations where we just can't in these situations where we just can't let down, let down, let down, um we are under chronic stress and of um we are under chronic stress and of um we are under chronic stress and of course that's as you've described in course that's as you've described in course that's as you've described in your book where the wear and tear on your book where the wear and tear on your book where the wear and tear on biology on telomeres and every other biology on telomeres and every other biology on telomeres and every other regulatory system happens. regulatory system happens. regulatory system happens. When we can downshift from this acute When we can downshift from this acute When we can downshift from this acute stress response, we get into yellow mind stress response, we get into yellow mind stress response, we get into yellow mind state and that's where the majority of state and that's where the majority of state and that's where the majority of time is spent for most of us living in time is spent for most of us living in time is spent for most of us living in an urban stressful environment. The an urban stressful environment. The an urban stressful environment. The yellow mind state is pervasive, yellow mind state is pervasive, yellow mind state is pervasive, moderate, sometimes invisible cognitive moderate, sometimes invisible cognitive moderate, sometimes invisible cognitive load. load. load. So, this is a subtle chronic stress So, this is a subtle chronic stress So, this is a subtle chronic stress state that we're used to. That's the one state that we're used to. That's the one state that we're used to. That's the one we don't notice. we don't notice. we don't notice. And so, shifting out of yellow mind And so, shifting out of yellow mind And so, shifting out of yellow mind state to a healthy acute stressor like state to a healthy acute stressor like state to a healthy acute stressor like exercise or down to relaxation exercise or down to relaxation exercise or down to relaxation is really important. Thinking about is really important. Thinking about is really important. Thinking about moving our stress response system, I moving our stress response system, I moving our stress response system, I call that stress fitness. We want to call that stress fitness. We want to call that stress fitness. We want to move flexibly through the day. We don't move flexibly through the day. We don't move flexibly through the day. We don't want to stay in yellow mind. Of course, want to stay in yellow mind. Of course, want to stay in yellow mind. Of course, we don't want to stay in in acute stress we don't want to stay in in acute stress we don't want to stay in in acute stress response either. The stress response is response either. The stress response is response either. The stress response is extremely expensive energetically. It extremely expensive energetically. It extremely expensive energetically. It uses up so much ATP or energy and so, uses up so much ATP or energy and so, uses up so much ATP or energy and so, it's exhausting. By the end of the day, it's exhausting. By the end of the day, it's exhausting. By the end of the day, if we've had a lot of these if we've had a lot of these if we've had a lot of these peak red mind states, peak red mind states, peak red mind states, we will inevitably feel exhausted and we will inevitably feel exhausted and we will inevitably feel exhausted and depleted. And that's why it's so depleted. And that's why it's so depleted. And that's why it's so important to have these these breaks important to have these these breaks important to have these these breaks during the day and getting out of red during the day and getting out of red during the day and getting out of red and yellow mind. Green mind is a state and yellow mind. Green mind is a state and yellow mind. Green mind is a state of relaxation. of relaxation. of relaxation. We love to call it green mind to remind We love to call it green mind to remind We love to call it green mind to remind us that nature attunes us toward uh us that nature attunes us toward uh us that nature attunes us toward uh automatic or or let's say passive automatic or or let's say passive automatic or or let's say passive relaxation that we don't have to work relaxation that we don't have to work relaxation that we don't have to work hard to have our body let down hard to have our body let down hard to have our body let down the stress response and release when we the stress response and release when we the stress response and release when we are in a natural environment and we feel are in a natural environment and we feel are in a natural environment and we feel safe. safe. safe. And then the blue mind state And then the blue mind state And then the blue mind state is the state of deep rest. And I really is the state of deep rest. And I really is the state of deep rest. And I really think that there's magic to blue mind think that there's magic to blue mind think that there's magic to blue mind states. Biologically, this is when we states. Biologically, this is when we states. Biologically, this is when we release release release the most the most the most powerful healing mechanisms in our powerful healing mechanisms in our powerful healing mechanisms in our cells. cells. cells. And this is also the state that we get And this is also the state that we get And this is also the state that we get the least. So, the least. So, the least. So, if you look at your typical week, if you look at your typical week, if you look at your typical week, Rangan, Rangan, Rangan, how much do you spend in blue mind how much do you spend in blue mind how much do you spend in blue mind states during the day? states during the day? states during the day? >> Well, I'll tell you the sort of things I >> Well, I'll tell you the sort of things I >> Well, I'll tell you the sort of things I do each day and you can tell me if any do each day and you can tell me if any do each day and you can tell me if any of these are blue minds. of these are blue minds. of these are blue minds. I have a little morning routine and the I have a little morning routine and the I have a little morning routine and the first thing I do in that morning routine first thing I do in that morning routine first thing I do in that morning routine is I meditate for usually 10 minutes, is I meditate for usually 10 minutes, is I meditate for usually 10 minutes, sometimes 15 minutes. sometimes 15 minutes. sometimes 15 minutes. I will usually have two to three walks I will usually have two to three walks I will usually have two to three walks throughout the day. Sometimes they're throughout the day. Sometimes they're throughout the day. Sometimes they're only 15 minutes, but it's just my way only 15 minutes, but it's just my way only 15 minutes, but it's just my way of, you know, managing my blood sugar of, you know, managing my blood sugar of, you know, managing my blood sugar and managing my stress load and that and managing my stress load and that and managing my stress load and that kind of stuff. kind of stuff. kind of stuff. And I will not work in the evenings And I will not work in the evenings And I will not work in the evenings barring exceptional circumstances. barring exceptional circumstances. barring exceptional circumstances. So, that's maybe giving you a flavor of So, that's maybe giving you a flavor of So, that's maybe giving you a flavor of the kind of things I do, but I don't the kind of things I do, but I don't the kind of things I do, but I don't know how much of that would be blue mind know how much of that would be blue mind know how much of that would be blue mind versus green mind. versus green mind. versus green mind. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. It's a beautiful um It's a beautiful um It's a beautiful um rhythm of the day and you're integrating rhythm of the day and you're integrating rhythm of the day and you're integrating so many of the the critical micro so many of the the critical micro so many of the the critical micro interventions in that day. interventions in that day. interventions in that day. What I really do think of the window What I really do think of the window What I really do think of the window right after we wake up and before we go right after we wake up and before we go right after we wake up and before we go to bed as these critical periods where to bed as these critical periods where to bed as these critical periods where we really impact our stress response we really impact our stress response we really impact our stress response system. In the morning we prime it for system. In the morning we prime it for system. In the morning we prime it for the day. We're either building in a the day. We're either building in a the day. We're either building in a resilient a cushion of resilience for resilient a cushion of resilience for resilient a cushion of resilience for the day with some practices that set our the day with some practices that set our the day with some practices that set our nervous system up for lower reactivity nervous system up for lower reactivity nervous system up for lower reactivity and more stability and equanimity. And and more stability and equanimity. And and more stability and equanimity. And at the end of the day we're priming our at the end of the day we're priming our at the end of the day we're priming our nervous system for allowing us to nervous system for allowing us to nervous system for allowing us to release and restore release and restore release and restore releasing unconscious stress during the releasing unconscious stress during the releasing unconscious stress during the night. So it's amazing with these night. So it's amazing with these night. So it's amazing with these wearables how we can see how we hold on wearables how we can see how we hold on wearables how we can see how we hold on to stress during the night in our to stress during the night in our to stress during the night in our nervous system. We've been nervous system. We've been nervous system. We've been looking at that in some of our studies. looking at that in some of our studies. looking at that in some of our studies. How much does our our vagal tone our How much does our our vagal tone our How much does our our vagal tone our heart rate variability respond to the heart rate variability respond to the heart rate variability respond to the deepest stage of sleep? How low can it deepest stage of sleep? How low can it deepest stage of sleep? How low can it get? And what practices promote that? So get? And what practices promote that? So get? And what practices promote that? So well daily slow breathing for example we well daily slow breathing for example we well daily slow breathing for example we have found is have found is have found is is very important for allowing us to is very important for allowing us to is very important for allowing us to reach more deep breath states during the reach more deep breath states during the reach more deep breath states during the night. So very short periods of slow night. So very short periods of slow night. So very short periods of slow breathing during the day when we respond breathing during the day when we respond breathing during the day when we respond with more vagal tone during the night with more vagal tone during the night with more vagal tone during the night this is incredibly helpful for relieving this is incredibly helpful for relieving this is incredibly helpful for relieving depressive symptoms and boosting our depressive symptoms and boosting our depressive symptoms and boosting our mood. Um we that's one of the the mood. Um we that's one of the the mood. Um we that's one of the the >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> analysis we're currently working on. >> analysis we're currently working on. >> analysis we're currently working on. But to back to your question what what But to back to your question what what But to back to your question what what are these mind states and how do they are these mind states and how do they are these mind states and how do they map onto your day? map onto your day? map onto your day? So in the So in the So in the uh starting off with these practices uh starting off with these practices uh starting off with these practices that allow us to look into the mind with that allow us to look into the mind with that allow us to look into the mind with awareness mindfulness mindful movement. awareness mindfulness mindful movement. awareness mindfulness mindful movement. So body practices are just as effective So body practices are just as effective So body practices are just as effective as as as um let's say psychological um let's say psychological um let's say psychological or cognitive practices. or cognitive practices. or cognitive practices. They um They um They um I would say green mind states when we're I would say green mind states when we're I would say green mind states when we're attuned and in flow would be the common attuned and in flow would be the common attuned and in flow would be the common theme in your practices. theme in your practices. theme in your practices. And And And the deep rest that that we were trying the deep rest that that we were trying the deep rest that that we were trying to define, I really reserve that for to define, I really reserve that for to define, I really reserve that for lying down practices that are passive lying down practices that are passive lying down practices that are passive when we literally allow ourselves to when we literally allow ourselves to when we literally allow ourselves to release and let go and not exert effort. release and let go and not exert effort. release and let go and not exert effort. So that would be something like yoga So that would be something like yoga So that would be something like yoga nidra, visualization, listen to music, nidra, visualization, listen to music, nidra, visualization, listen to music, lying and resting, lying and resting, lying and resting, resting not ruminating. Um something resting not ruminating. Um something resting not ruminating. Um something that allows uh our body to truly have a that allows uh our body to truly have a that allows uh our body to truly have a break. And of course there are flow break. And of course there are flow break. And of course there are flow states when we're engaged in hobbies or states when we're engaged in hobbies or states when we're engaged in hobbies or being in nature that are that are, let's being in nature that are that are, let's being in nature that are that are, let's say, light blue mind states where we're say, light blue mind states where we're say, light blue mind states where we're not necess- we're still active, but we not necess- we're still active, but we not necess- we're still active, but we are our body's getting signals we're are our body's getting signals we're are our body's getting signals we're safe right now. It's uh time to relax. safe right now. It's uh time to relax. safe right now. It's uh time to relax. It's okay to relax right now. And our It's okay to relax right now. And our It's okay to relax right now. And our cells are getting physiological signals cells are getting physiological signals cells are getting physiological signals that we don't need to be creating that we don't need to be creating that we don't need to be creating proteins to uh fight viruses, you know, proteins to uh fight viruses, you know, proteins to uh fight viruses, you know, to keep our immunity up and to keep our to keep our immunity up and to keep our to keep our immunity up and to keep our stress response up. And that's the exact stress response up. And that's the exact stress response up. And that's the exact profile profile profile of what our cells doing or the the of what our cells doing or the the of what our cells doing or the the proteins that we make that we see during proteins that we make that we see during proteins that we make that we see during a meditation retreat. So in meditation a meditation retreat. So in meditation a meditation retreat. So in meditation retreats when we look at gene retreats when we look at gene retreats when we look at gene expression, we see that the body shifts expression, we see that the body shifts expression, we see that the body shifts toward toward toward uh during a multi-day meditation uh during a multi-day meditation uh during a multi-day meditation retreat, so retreat, so retreat, so a week or less, a week or less, a week or less, the body shifts into creating more the body shifts into creating more the body shifts into creating more proteins for cell restoration like proteins for cell restoration like proteins for cell restoration like telomerase and mitochondrial function. telomerase and mitochondrial function. telomerase and mitochondrial function. And less of the proteins that are toward And less of the proteins that are toward And less of the proteins that are toward building up immunity and mounting the building up immunity and mounting the building up immunity and mounting the stress response. So, we get that shift stress response. So, we get that shift stress response. So, we get that shift toward what we call growth, maintenance, toward what we call growth, maintenance, toward what we call growth, maintenance, and repair genes or the healing process and repair genes or the healing process and repair genes or the healing process when we rest. And if we're ripping when we rest. And if we're ripping when we rest. And if we're ripping ourselves off ourselves off ourselves off of relaxation of relaxation of relaxation and we're not getting deep rest, and we're not getting deep rest, and we're not getting deep rest, we are aging faster. we are aging faster. we are aging faster. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, So, So, one thing Alyssa I've noticed over the one thing Alyssa I've noticed over the one thing Alyssa I've noticed over the years years years is sometimes patients would say, is sometimes patients would say, is sometimes patients would say, "I slept for 7 or 8 hours last night, "I slept for 7 or 8 hours last night, "I slept for 7 or 8 hours last night, but if they didn't switch off before but if they didn't switch off before but if they didn't switch off before bed, they woke up feeling exhausted." bed, they woke up feeling exhausted." bed, they woke up feeling exhausted." So, that could have been that they were So, that could have been that they were So, that could have been that they were keeping their mind active in some way, keeping their mind active in some way, keeping their mind active in some way, stimulated. It could be they were doing stimulated. It could be they were doing stimulated. It could be they were doing some work emails before bed or it could some work emails before bed or it could some work emails before bed or it could be a variety of different things. be a variety of different things. be a variety of different things. First of all, I'd love your comments on First of all, I'd love your comments on First of all, I'd love your comments on that. And secondly, would you say that that. And secondly, would you say that that. And secondly, would you say that just before we go to bed, it would be a just before we go to bed, it would be a just before we go to bed, it would be a good idea for us to try and get to that good idea for us to try and get to that good idea for us to try and get to that deep deep deep restorative blue mind state a almost restorative blue mind state a almost restorative blue mind state a almost like a daily habit? like a daily habit? like a daily habit? >> I think it's a >> I think it's a >> I think it's a brilliant place to intervene. brilliant place to intervene. brilliant place to intervene. It's as you said, it's the bookend that It's as you said, it's the bookend that It's as you said, it's the bookend that we control right before bed. we control right before bed. we control right before bed. It is the It is the It is the ability to ability to ability to allow our nervous system to descend into allow our nervous system to descend into allow our nervous system to descend into a relaxed state before sleep will a relaxed state before sleep will a relaxed state before sleep will directly affect our sleep physiology to directly affect our sleep physiology to directly affect our sleep physiology to be more restorative. be more restorative. be more restorative. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, some people think, you know, my my >> So, some people think, you know, my my >> So, some people think, you know, my my head hits the pillow, I fall asleep head hits the pillow, I fall asleep head hits the pillow, I fall asleep right away. I don't need to relax before right away. I don't need to relax before right away. I don't need to relax before sleep. sleep. sleep. The bottom line is a lot of that's your The bottom line is a lot of that's your The bottom line is a lot of that's your homeostatic drive for sleep because you homeostatic drive for sleep because you homeostatic drive for sleep because you have a sleep debt, right? So, you don't have a sleep debt, right? So, you don't have a sleep debt, right? So, you don't have trouble getting into sleep. have trouble getting into sleep. have trouble getting into sleep. You probably under slept, but what is You probably under slept, but what is You probably under slept, but what is your nervous system your nervous system your nervous system saying to you while you sleep? It may be saying to you while you sleep? It may be saying to you while you sleep? It may be saying, "Well, I need to stay vigilant, saying, "Well, I need to stay vigilant, saying, "Well, I need to stay vigilant, and I need to continue problem solving, and I need to continue problem solving, and I need to continue problem solving, and there's still and there's still and there's still um um um a lot of work to be done. And we so we a lot of work to be done. And we so we a lot of work to be done. And we so we need energy. We need to be burning ATP need energy. We need to be burning ATP need energy. We need to be burning ATP instead of of restoring and creating instead of of restoring and creating instead of of restoring and creating it." it." it." So, we can measure that now with these So, we can measure that now with these So, we can measure that now with these wearables. It's quite remarkable. wearables. It's quite remarkable. wearables. It's quite remarkable. When we can When we can When we can l- create a l- create a l- create a decrease in our arousal from from our decrease in our arousal from from our decrease in our arousal from from our more yellow mind state more yellow mind state more yellow mind state before sleep, before sleep, before sleep, we are allowing our we are allowing our we are allowing our parasympathetic nervous system to get a parasympathetic nervous system to get a parasympathetic nervous system to get a head start on reaching its nadir, its head start on reaching its nadir, its head start on reaching its nadir, its lowest level of arousal. That happens lowest level of arousal. That happens lowest level of arousal. That happens during deep sleep. during deep sleep. during deep sleep. And And And so so so during sleep in general, we want to have during sleep in general, we want to have during sleep in general, we want to have this release of stress. This is when we this release of stress. This is when we this release of stress. This is when we reset our metabolism. We We develop more reset our metabolism. We We develop more reset our metabolism. We We develop more insulin sensitivity. We get out of that insulin sensitivity. We get out of that insulin sensitivity. We get out of that insulin resistant or pre-diabetic state insulin resistant or pre-diabetic state insulin resistant or pre-diabetic state that we might have been in from stress. that we might have been in from stress. that we might have been in from stress. We reset. Um it's also when growth We reset. Um it's also when growth We reset. Um it's also when growth hormone and anabolic hormones that hormone and anabolic hormones that hormone and anabolic hormones that restore restore restore and promote growth, depending on what and promote growth, depending on what and promote growth, depending on what stage of our life. When we're younger, stage of our life. When we're younger, stage of our life. When we're younger, promoting growth. When we're older, promoting growth. When we're older, promoting growth. When we're older, repairing and restoring. repairing and restoring. repairing and restoring. So, these So, these So, these only uh some of them, like growth only uh some of them, like growth only uh some of them, like growth hormone as adults, mostly appear during hormone as adults, mostly appear during hormone as adults, mostly appear during the night and not during the day. So, we the night and not during the day. So, we the night and not during the day. So, we just want to protect that restorative just want to protect that restorative just want to protect that restorative period. It's precious. I think some of period. It's precious. I think some of period. It's precious. I think some of us are just worse sleepers in general, us are just worse sleepers in general, us are just worse sleepers in general, and so we need to work a little bit and so we need to work a little bit and so we need to work a little bit harder. But I guess my point is chronic harder. But I guess my point is chronic harder. But I guess my point is chronic stress can, as as we were talking about stress can, as as we were talking about stress can, as as we were talking about at the beginning, reset baselines. It at the beginning, reset baselines. It at the beginning, reset baselines. It can rewire things so that our body is can rewire things so that our body is can rewire things so that our body is now now now even in its rest state still in a even in its rest state still in a even in its rest state still in a somewhat chronically stressed state and somewhat chronically stressed state and somewhat chronically stressed state and that will will see that in our sleep. that will will see that in our sleep. that will will see that in our sleep. We'll see that in our food choices We'll see that in our food choices We'll see that in our food choices um even in our ability to like really um even in our ability to like really um even in our ability to like really connect and relax when we're in social connect and relax when we're in social connect and relax when we're in social situations and related to other people. situations and related to other people. situations and related to other people. >> You mentioned the same parasympathetic >> You mentioned the same parasympathetic >> You mentioned the same parasympathetic before for before for before for for people who are not familiar with for people who are not familiar with for people who are not familiar with these terms what we're we're talking these terms what we're we're talking these terms what we're we're talking largely about the two main branches of largely about the two main branches of largely about the two main branches of the autonomic nervous system the the autonomic nervous system the the autonomic nervous system the sympathetic sympathetic sympathetic which is the sort of stress fight or which is the sort of stress fight or which is the sort of stress fight or flight arm of our nervous system as flight arm of our nervous system as flight arm of our nervous system as opposed to parasympathetic opposed to parasympathetic opposed to parasympathetic which is the rest and relaxation parts. which is the rest and relaxation parts. which is the rest and relaxation parts. Is one way to think about red and yellow Is one way to think about red and yellow Is one way to think about red and yellow that they're sort of different gears of that they're sort of different gears of that they're sort of different gears of the the the the activated stress state. So gear one the activated stress state. So gear one the activated stress state. So gear one is yellow mind where you're slightly is yellow mind where you're slightly is yellow mind where you're slightly activated and and red mind is sort of activated and and red mind is sort of activated and and red mind is sort of when you're full on activation and and when you're full on activation and and when you're full on activation and and can we say the reverse for green mind can we say the reverse for green mind can we say the reverse for green mind and blue mind so green mind is a little and blue mind so green mind is a little and blue mind so green mind is a little bit of relaxation you know I think what bit of relaxation you know I think what bit of relaxation you know I think what you've called relaxed engagement. you've called relaxed engagement. you've called relaxed engagement. But then if you really want to go to But then if you really want to go to But then if you really want to go to gear two of relaxation you need to hit gear two of relaxation you need to hit gear two of relaxation you need to hit blue mind which is blue mind which is blue mind which is I think you wrote in your book that this I think you wrote in your book that this I think you wrote in your book that this is where you have a profound sense of is where you have a profound sense of is where you have a profound sense of safety around you as well. In fact did safety around you as well. In fact did safety around you as well. In fact did you say that you say that you say that safety signals around you are safety signals around you are safety signals around you are prerequisites prerequisites prerequisites even to enter blue mind state. even to enter blue mind state. even to enter blue mind state. >> Right and that was a big emphasis in our >> Right and that was a big emphasis in our >> Right and that was a big emphasis in our research paper led by Alexander research paper led by Alexander research paper led by Alexander Crosswell on blue mind states. Crosswell on blue mind states. Crosswell on blue mind states. This idea of This idea of This idea of really being able to really being able to really being able to turn on restorative physiology partly turn on restorative physiology partly turn on restorative physiology partly depends on our perception of safety. depends on our perception of safety. depends on our perception of safety. For us to really be able to For us to really be able to For us to really be able to let down let down let down our guard our guard our guard we need to feel that sense of physical we need to feel that sense of physical we need to feel that sense of physical and social safety. and social safety. and social safety. Once we feel that, we can actually Once we feel that, we can actually Once we feel that, we can actually really shift gears into that state that really shift gears into that state that really shift gears into that state that we call um better than relaxation, that we call um better than relaxation, that we call um better than relaxation, that deep rest state. deep rest state. deep rest state. The parasympathetic nervous system The parasympathetic nervous system The parasympathetic nervous system inhibits the sympathetic nervous system inhibits the sympathetic nervous system inhibits the sympathetic nervous system or the stress response. And so, when we or the stress response. And so, when we or the stress response. And so, when we feel stressed, we release feel stressed, we release feel stressed, we release the parasympathetic nervous system. We the parasympathetic nervous system. We the parasympathetic nervous system. We have lower vagal tone. That's how we get have lower vagal tone. That's how we get have lower vagal tone. That's how we get this big boost in sympathetic activity. this big boost in sympathetic activity. this big boost in sympathetic activity. But back to your question, yes, the But back to your question, yes, the But back to your question, yes, the parasympathetic and the sympathetic parasympathetic and the sympathetic parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system mostly map onto these nervous system mostly map onto these nervous system mostly map onto these mind states in the way you described. mind states in the way you described. mind states in the way you described. >> As she was speaking there with us, uh >> As she was speaking there with us, uh >> As she was speaking there with us, uh three thoughts came to mind, which um I three thoughts came to mind, which um I three thoughts came to mind, which um I hope you don't mind me sharing. The hope you don't mind me sharing. The hope you don't mind me sharing. The first one was first one was first one was about this socioeconomic discrepancy we about this socioeconomic discrepancy we about this socioeconomic discrepancy we see see see with health outcomes. So, depending on with health outcomes. So, depending on with health outcomes. So, depending on where you live, certainly here in the where you live, certainly here in the where you live, certainly here in the UK, and I'm sure it's the same in UK, and I'm sure it's the same in UK, and I'm sure it's the same in America, America, America, your life expectancy can be your life expectancy can be your life expectancy can be as much as 10 years different depending as much as 10 years different depending as much as 10 years different depending on where you live. on where you live. on where you live. And there are all kinds of factors that And there are all kinds of factors that And there are all kinds of factors that play into that, right? No question. play into that, right? No question. play into that, right? No question. But But But one of the factors I was thinking about one of the factors I was thinking about one of the factors I was thinking about as you were talking there was to do with as you were talking there was to do with as you were talking there was to do with safety signals. safety signals. safety signals. If we're saying If we're saying If we're saying that a prerequisite that a prerequisite that a prerequisite to get into deep restful sleep, which to get into deep restful sleep, which to get into deep restful sleep, which will restore us, is to try and get into will restore us, is to try and get into will restore us, is to try and get into blue mind, blue mind, blue mind, but in order to get into blue mind, we but in order to get into blue mind, we but in order to get into blue mind, we need to have safety signals around us need to have safety signals around us need to have safety signals around us first, first, first, then it stands to reason that there will then it stands to reason that there will then it stands to reason that there will be populations living in be populations living in be populations living in dangerous areas, noisy areas, police dangerous areas, noisy areas, police dangerous areas, noisy areas, police sirens going on around them, that's sirens going on around them, that's sirens going on around them, that's going to be very, very hard for these going to be very, very hard for these going to be very, very hard for these people to achieve, right? people to achieve, right? people to achieve, right? Second point was this idea that I Second point was this idea that I Second point was this idea that I believe believe believe that there may well be many people now that there may well be many people now that there may well be many people now because of because of because of our busy modern lives and because our busy modern lives and because our busy modern lives and because technology has basically obliterated the technology has basically obliterated the technology has basically obliterated the boundaries between work life and home boundaries between work life and home boundaries between work life and home life, life, life, I reckon there are some people out there I reckon there are some people out there I reckon there are some people out there or many people out there or many people out there or many people out there who may go weeks without ever who may go weeks without ever who may go weeks without ever experiencing blue minds, okay? Which is experiencing blue minds, okay? Which is experiencing blue minds, okay? Which is really quite remarkable. What's your really quite remarkable. What's your really quite remarkable. What's your take on that? take on that? take on that? >> I think it's a hidden epidemic. The >> I think it's a hidden epidemic. The >> I think it's a hidden epidemic. The the disappearance of the disappearance of the disappearance of true relaxation. true relaxation. true relaxation. It's cultural. I mean, there are It's cultural. I mean, there are It's cultural. I mean, there are definitely societies that still keep the definitely societies that still keep the definitely societies that still keep the siesta and have a healthier relationship siesta and have a healthier relationship siesta and have a healthier relationship with time with time with time and with um, and with um, and with um, how much they value social and leisure how much they value social and leisure how much they value social and leisure time. time. time. But in general, we tend to commoditize But in general, we tend to commoditize But in general, we tend to commoditize time. time. time. We view time as money. We pack in as We view time as money. We pack in as We view time as money. We pack in as much as we can of of doing and much as we can of of doing and much as we can of of doing and achievement into our, achievement into our, achievement into our, you know, our minutes in our day. And so you know, our minutes in our day. And so you know, our minutes in our day. And so physiologically, physiologically, physiologically, we are we are we are really uh, deficient in the natural and really uh, deficient in the natural and really uh, deficient in the natural and normal flow of the diurnal rhythms need normal flow of the diurnal rhythms need normal flow of the diurnal rhythms need for rest, right? We should in the for rest, right? We should in the for rest, right? We should in the afternoon be when we're low energy, be afternoon be when we're low energy, be afternoon be when we're low energy, be allowing ourselves to have that allowing ourselves to have that allowing ourselves to have that uh, nader of activity in the day. uh, nader of activity in the day. uh, nader of activity in the day. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And >> And >> And >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> many people, of course, >> many people, of course, >> many people, of course, had don't have the degrees of freedom to had don't have the degrees of freedom to had don't have the degrees of freedom to have that. But like you said, have that. But like you said, have that. But like you said, controlling the weekends more, controlling the weekends more, controlling the weekends more, controlling the book ends of the day controlling the book ends of the day controlling the book ends of the day more can make more can make more can make a tremendous difference. a tremendous difference. a tremendous difference. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, the socioeconomic status >> So, the socioeconomic status >> So, the socioeconomic status absolutely patterns the amount of absolutely patterns the amount of absolutely patterns the amount of not just chronic stressors but danger not just chronic stressors but danger not just chronic stressors but danger signals in in in neighborhoods, noise, signals in in in neighborhoods, noise, signals in in in neighborhoods, noise, crime, crime, crime, uh the lower levels of kind of trust of uh the lower levels of kind of trust of uh the lower levels of kind of trust of neighbors knowing neighbors and social neighbors knowing neighbors and social neighbors knowing neighbors and social capital. Those all capital. Those all capital. Those all matter so much for individual health. matter so much for individual health. matter so much for individual health. So, knowing someone's zip code helps you So, knowing someone's zip code helps you So, knowing someone's zip code helps you predict things like predict things like predict things like their weight, their body mass index, so their weight, their body mass index, so their weight, their body mass index, so level of obesity, level of obesity, level of obesity, but also telomere length. We know that but also telomere length. We know that but also telomere length. We know that neighborhoods neighborhoods neighborhoods actually actually actually are a predictor of how short our are a predictor of how short our are a predictor of how short our telomeres become telomeres become telomeres become in in adulthood and mid-adulthood. So, in in adulthood and mid-adulthood. So, in in adulthood and mid-adulthood. So, these studies are fascinating on these studies are fascinating on these studies are fascinating on neighborhoods. neighborhoods. neighborhoods. Things that matter that come to the top Things that matter that come to the top Things that matter that come to the top are feelings of safety, are feelings of safety, are feelings of safety, um um um the the the what we call deprivation, neighborhood what we call deprivation, neighborhood what we call deprivation, neighborhood deprivation. So, these measures of how deprivation. So, these measures of how deprivation. So, these measures of how much a neighborhood has things like much a neighborhood has things like much a neighborhood has things like uh grocery stores and community uh grocery stores and community uh grocery stores and community resources resources resources versus not having these these resources. versus not having these these resources. versus not having these these resources. Aesthetics is another aspect or the Aesthetics is another aspect or the Aesthetics is another aspect or the level of green, parks and trees is level of green, parks and trees is level of green, parks and trees is another thing we measure in another thing we measure in another thing we measure in neighborhoods and uh neighborhoods and uh neighborhoods and uh in some studies that's starting to be in some studies that's starting to be in some studies that's starting to be measured and being related to cellular measured and being related to cellular measured and being related to cellular aging. So, this study that I love in aging. So, this study that I love in aging. So, this study that I love in Hong Kong, um they compared the suburbs Hong Kong, um they compared the suburbs Hong Kong, um they compared the suburbs of Hong Kong, which were like literally of Hong Kong, which were like literally of Hong Kong, which were like literally um um um green hills and a tremendous amount of green hills and a tremendous amount of green hills and a tremendous amount of natural land versus this very dense natural land versus this very dense natural land versus this very dense urban area, and they looked at city urban area, and they looked at city urban area, and they looked at city dwellers and they controlled for social dwellers and they controlled for social dwellers and they controlled for social economic status like indivi- at the economic status like indivi- at the economic status like indivi- at the individual level of education and income individual level of education and income individual level of education and income and found that there were significantly and found that there were significantly and found that there were significantly longer telomeres in the people that longer telomeres in the people that longer telomeres in the people that lived in the green area versus the urban lived in the green area versus the urban lived in the green area versus the urban area. And of course, there's many area. And of course, there's many area. And of course, there's many studies on urbanization and the brain, studies on urbanization and the brain, studies on urbanization and the brain, the the stress response showing that the the the stress response showing that the the the stress response showing that the amygdala is more hyper-responsive in amygdala is more hyper-responsive in amygdala is more hyper-responsive in people who live in urban areas. people who live in urban areas. people who live in urban areas. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. In terms of practical interventions In terms of practical interventions In terms of practical interventions then, if we just laser then, if we just laser then, if we just laser focus in on that window before bed, focus in on that window before bed, focus in on that window before bed, okay? So, okay? So, okay? So, sleep of course is a great time for the sleep of course is a great time for the sleep of course is a great time for the body to restore itself and to body to restore itself and to body to restore itself and to rejuvenate itself. rejuvenate itself. rejuvenate itself. But of course, But of course, But of course, one of the things that we're talking one of the things that we're talking one of the things that we're talking about that is going to determine about that is going to determine about that is going to determine what your sleep physiology becomes what your sleep physiology becomes what your sleep physiology becomes is what state are you in just before is what state are you in just before is what state are you in just before going to bed. In terms of going to bed. In terms of going to bed. In terms of trying to recommend things to the trying to recommend things to the trying to recommend things to the listener who might be thinking, "Well, I listener who might be thinking, "Well, I listener who might be thinking, "Well, I don't sleep particularly well. Normally, don't sleep particularly well. Normally, don't sleep particularly well. Normally, I'm sort of in bed just scrolling I'm sort of in bed just scrolling I'm sort of in bed just scrolling Instagram and Instagram and Instagram and um I feel that's relaxing before I go to um I feel that's relaxing before I go to um I feel that's relaxing before I go to bed." But let's say that that person's bed." But let's say that that person's bed." But let's say that that person's thinking, you know, "Should I be doing thinking, you know, "Should I be doing thinking, you know, "Should I be doing something else?" What kind of something else?" What kind of something else?" What kind of recommendations do you have for people recommendations do you have for people recommendations do you have for people to try and get themselves into blue mind to try and get themselves into blue mind to try and get themselves into blue mind before they go to bed? before they go to bed? before they go to bed? I've been using Bon Charge wellness I've been using Bon Charge wellness I've been using Bon Charge wellness products for over 5 years, from red products for over 5 years, from red products for over 5 years, from red light therapy to infrared sauna blankets light therapy to infrared sauna blankets light therapy to infrared sauna blankets to blue light glasses. Bon Charge make to blue light glasses. Bon Charge make to blue light glasses. Bon Charge make it really easy to get healthy whilst it really easy to get healthy whilst it really easy to get healthy whilst staying at home. Now, one of my staying at home. Now, one of my staying at home. 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Now, I personally like using this mat in Now, I personally like using this mat in Now, I personally like using this mat in the evenings whilst reading or relaxing the evenings whilst reading or relaxing the evenings whilst reading or relaxing to help switch me off before bed. to help switch me off before bed. to help switch me off before bed. So, if you're looking to take charge of So, if you're looking to take charge of So, if you're looking to take charge of your health at home, your health at home, your health at home, I highly recommend you consider adding I highly recommend you consider adding I highly recommend you consider adding the infrared PEMF mat into your daily the infrared PEMF mat into your daily the infrared PEMF mat into your daily routine. routine. routine. BonCharge are giving my audience 20% off BonCharge are giving my audience 20% off BonCharge are giving my audience 20% off all of their products. All you have to all of their products. All you have to all of their products. All you have to do is click the QR code on screen or go do is click the QR code on screen or go do is click the QR code on screen or go to boncharge.com to boncharge.com to boncharge.com and use the code livemore to save 20%. and use the code livemore to save 20%. and use the code livemore to save 20%. >> I really admire people who leave their >> I really admire people who leave their >> I really admire people who leave their phone in a different room or even a phone in a different room or even a phone in a different room or even a different floor, you know, floor. Um different floor, you know, floor. Um different floor, you know, floor. Um most people are looking at their phone most people are looking at their phone most people are looking at their phone and it we use the screen for so many and it we use the screen for so many and it we use the screen for so many things that it's very easy to have things that it's very easy to have things that it's very easy to have excuses and then to flip right to social excuses and then to flip right to social excuses and then to flip right to social media and to scrolling and there's no media and to scrolling and there's no media and to scrolling and there's no question that even if it's rewarding in question that even if it's rewarding in question that even if it's rewarding in the short term and it feels good and it the short term and it feels good and it the short term and it feels good and it feels time, it's activating threat feels time, it's activating threat feels time, it's activating threat responses. We're just bombarded by so responses. We're just bombarded by so responses. We're just bombarded by so much information. much information. much information. Uh Uh Uh exponentially more information exponentially more information exponentially more information than our brains are used to even than our brains are used to even than our brains are used to even 10 years ago. Just the amount of 10 years ago. Just the amount of 10 years ago. Just the amount of stimulus. So, stimulus. So, stimulus. So, clearly, uh clearly, uh clearly, uh having this protected period having this protected period having this protected period as you described, 2 hours is wonderful as you described, 2 hours is wonderful as you described, 2 hours is wonderful when you can do that, where you are when you can do that, where you are when you can do that, where you are shutting down the doing mode from work, shutting down the doing mode from work, shutting down the doing mode from work, you know, make maybe making a to-do list you know, make maybe making a to-do list you know, make maybe making a to-do list of what you need to do the next day, not of what you need to do the next day, not of what you need to do the next day, not talking about work with people at home, talking about work with people at home, talking about work with people at home, um having um having um having less blue light, so less less screens. less blue light, so less less screens. less blue light, so less less screens. And then, what you do with that time, And then, what you do with that time, And then, what you do with that time, that that ritual that that ritual that that ritual is so individual and personal. is so individual and personal. is so individual and personal. And so, I can list off ideas and some of And so, I can list off ideas and some of And so, I can list off ideas and some of the things I do, but really just having the things I do, but really just having the things I do, but really just having one or two things that your body is one or two things that your body is one or two things that your body is conditioned to do conditioned to do conditioned to do is is is the trick because the trick because the trick because when our body gets the signals, sensory when our body gets the signals, sensory when our body gets the signals, sensory signals, lighting signals, where we are signals, lighting signals, where we are signals, lighting signals, where we are in our house, in our house, in our house, it starts that wind-down process. Like it starts that wind-down process. Like it starts that wind-down process. Like the nervous system is absolutely the nervous system is absolutely the nervous system is absolutely sensitive to sensitive to sensitive to um routine, order, and conditioning. So, um routine, order, and conditioning. So, um routine, order, and conditioning. So, for example, I will come into our for example, I will come into our for example, I will come into our bedroom and set it up by bedroom and set it up by bedroom and set it up by creating a creating a creating a um a change in lighting. a change in lighting. I will put on a um aromatherapy I will put on a um aromatherapy I will put on a um aromatherapy diffuser, diffuser, diffuser, lavender or, you know, different mixes, lavender or, you know, different mixes, lavender or, you know, different mixes, but lavender is is but lavender is is but lavender is is clearly one of the more relaxing clearly one of the more relaxing clearly one of the more relaxing aromatherapy aromatherapy aromatherapy um interventions. um interventions. um interventions. And and music. And and music. And and music. And so, right there, that's a completely And so, right there, that's a completely And so, right there, that's a completely different sensory environment. Adding different sensory environment. Adding different sensory environment. Adding some some yoga poses that are some some yoga poses that are some some yoga poses that are restorative or stretches restorative or stretches restorative or stretches might be part of someone's routine if might be part of someone's routine if might be part of someone's routine if they especially if they haven't moved they especially if they haven't moved they especially if they haven't moved much that day. You can even do it in bed much that day. You can even do it in bed much that day. You can even do it in bed if you're that tired. You can do forward if you're that tired. You can do forward if you're that tired. You can do forward bends bends bends um um um while while sitting. So, So, some of the big guns that I'd use, I I I some of the big guns that I'd use, I I I some of the big guns that I'd use, I I I love to be technology free, but the love to be technology free, but the love to be technology free, but the truth is these biosensors, when we truth is these biosensors, when we truth is these biosensors, when we benefit from them, benefit from them, benefit from them, are a whole new source of information. are a whole new source of information. are a whole new source of information. They promote a whole new level of They promote a whole new level of They promote a whole new level of awareness of where our nervous system is awareness of where our nervous system is awareness of where our nervous system is at, which is otherwise invisible to us. at, which is otherwise invisible to us. at, which is otherwise invisible to us. We may uh think we know how stressed we We may uh think we know how stressed we We may uh think we know how stressed we are, but unless we're measuring it, we are, but unless we're measuring it, we are, but unless we're measuring it, we don't know. Our feelings of stress are don't know. Our feelings of stress are don't know. Our feelings of stress are not tightly correlated to not tightly correlated to not tightly correlated to our nervous system physiology. our nervous system physiology. our nervous system physiology. So, that's kind of a foundation of So, that's kind of a foundation of So, that's kind of a foundation of stress science that we need to measure stress science that we need to measure stress science that we need to measure both. And you first asked me, "What is both. And you first asked me, "What is both. And you first asked me, "What is stress?" stress?" stress?" So, So, So, so at a at the subjective level, we all so at a at the subjective level, we all so at a at the subjective level, we all know that what stress feels like. We may know that what stress feels like. We may know that what stress feels like. We may be feeling overwhelmed, worried, be feeling overwhelmed, worried, be feeling overwhelmed, worried, alarmed, threatened, alarmed, threatened, alarmed, threatened, anxious, tense. All of those subjective anxious, tense. All of those subjective anxious, tense. All of those subjective feelings are very important. We need to feelings are very important. We need to feelings are very important. We need to check in with ourselves and say how check in with ourselves and say how check in with ourselves and say how um what is my level of stress right now. um what is my level of stress right now. um what is my level of stress right now. So, that's just a tool we don't use So, that's just a tool we don't use So, that's just a tool we don't use enough. That's a immediate check-in. enough. That's a immediate check-in. enough. That's a immediate check-in. But, even more But, even more But, even more advanced and powerful is getting a layer advanced and powerful is getting a layer advanced and powerful is getting a layer below below those below below those below below those feelings of stress. You know, that first feelings of stress. You know, that first feelings of stress. You know, that first sense of is my alarm on or off to sense of is my alarm on or off to sense of is my alarm on or off to various extents. The second layer that's various extents. The second layer that's various extents. The second layer that's much more powerful is much more powerful is much more powerful is emotional granularity. What What are the emotional granularity. What What are the emotional granularity. What What are the different emotions that I'm feeling different emotions that I'm feeling different emotions that I'm feeling right now? right now? right now? And why? So, that's that's a deeper And why? So, that's that's a deeper And why? So, that's that's a deeper uh dive into data collection about our uh dive into data collection about our uh dive into data collection about our mind-body state. Cuz emotions really mind-body state. Cuz emotions really mind-body state. Cuz emotions really inform us about how we're feeling and inform us about how we're feeling and inform us about how we're feeling and why. And by naming it, we tame it. As why. And by naming it, we tame it. As why. And by naming it, we tame it. As Dan Siegel says, name it to tame it. So, Dan Siegel says, name it to tame it. So, Dan Siegel says, name it to tame it. So, when we can when we can when we can actually do a quick mindful check-in, actually do a quick mindful check-in, actually do a quick mindful check-in, what am I feeling in my body? what am I feeling in my body? what am I feeling in my body? What are the What are the What are the different emotions I different emotions I different emotions I that might be predominant right now? that might be predominant right now? that might be predominant right now? That check-in is very powerful. That can That check-in is very powerful. That can That check-in is very powerful. That can get us from red or yellow mind closer get us from red or yellow mind closer get us from red or yellow mind closer down to green. Just knowing, just down to green. Just knowing, just down to green. Just knowing, just awareness. We're not necessarily going awareness. We're not necessarily going awareness. We're not necessarily going to to to de-stress ourselves with emotional de-stress ourselves with emotional de-stress ourselves with emotional labeling, but we labeling, but we labeling, but we are going to turn off that alarm, that are going to turn off that alarm, that are going to turn off that alarm, that that diffuse that diffuse that diffuse uh uh uh let's say nondescript alarm that keeps let's say nondescript alarm that keeps let's say nondescript alarm that keeps us stressed. us stressed. us stressed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um so, the gadgets. So, I use Well, >> Um so, the gadgets. So, I use Well, >> Um so, the gadgets. So, I use Well, right now, I've got something um right now, I've got something um right now, I've got something um on my arm that is something I've on my arm that is something I've on my arm that is something I've recently been trying, which I actually recently been trying, which I actually recently been trying, which I actually really like. Uh this is called the really like. Uh this is called the really like. Uh this is called the Apollo Neuro, and it does give very Apollo Neuro, and it does give very Apollo Neuro, and it does give very subtle um gentle vibrations to the body subtle um gentle vibrations to the body subtle um gentle vibrations to the body that feel calming. that feel calming. that feel calming. To some people. So, So, I'm particularly To some people. So, So, I'm particularly To some people. So, So, I'm particularly responsive to this, and you can wear it responsive to this, and you can wear it responsive to this, and you can wear it at night, as well. at night, as well. at night, as well. I like to I like to I like to uh uh uh also during tough periods use a also during tough periods use a also during tough periods use a biofeedback monitor right before bed. biofeedback monitor right before bed. biofeedback monitor right before bed. So, it's I have it right next to my bed. So, it's I have it right next to my bed. So, it's I have it right next to my bed. HeartMath is a really easy one where you HeartMath is a really easy one where you HeartMath is a really easy one where you you unfortunately do have to use your you unfortunately do have to use your you unfortunately do have to use your phone, but you can phone, but you can phone, but you can look at how your look at how your look at how your nervous system nervous system nervous system is responding to is responding to is responding to your slower breathing. your slower breathing. your slower breathing. And you can do visualizations, you can And you can do visualizations, you can And you can do visualizations, you can imagine warmth or kindness in your imagine warmth or kindness in your imagine warmth or kindness in your heart, or other heart, or other heart, or other visualizations that allow you to feel visualizations that allow you to feel visualizations that allow you to feel release. release. release. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And more of a loving tone, like bringing >> And more of a loving tone, like bringing >> And more of a loving tone, like bringing in kindness, in kindness, in kindness, kind thoughts, kind thoughts, kind thoughts, and love. And that just softens and love. And that just softens and love. And that just softens everything. And you can actually watch everything. And you can actually watch everything. And you can actually watch this little monitor and see if your this little monitor and see if your this little monitor and see if your vagal tone is increasing. vagal tone is increasing. vagal tone is increasing. Now, there's some proprietary formula Now, there's some proprietary formula Now, there's some proprietary formula for HeartMath in particular, but in for HeartMath in particular, but in for HeartMath in particular, but in general, what we're trying to do is general, what we're trying to do is general, what we're trying to do is increase our heart rate variability. You increase our heart rate variability. You increase our heart rate variability. You know, the bottom line, Rangan, is just know, the bottom line, Rangan, is just know, the bottom line, Rangan, is just slowing our breathing. Like, if there's slowing our breathing. Like, if there's slowing our breathing. Like, if there's just one thing that we all tend to do just one thing that we all tend to do just one thing that we all tend to do right before bed that works for most right before bed that works for most right before bed that works for most people, It's just slowing the breathing. people, It's just slowing the breathing. people, It's just slowing the breathing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? It's to think that It's crazy, isn't it? It's to think that It's crazy, isn't it? It's to think that something so simple, which is just a something so simple, which is just a something so simple, which is just a body scan, body scan, body scan, which has been shown, I think, from your which has been shown, I think, from your which has been shown, I think, from your research and other people's research to research and other people's research to research and other people's research to have a profound impact on our stress have a profound impact on our stress have a profound impact on our stress response and therefore our ability to response and therefore our ability to response and therefore our ability to fall asleep. But I I think the key thing fall asleep. But I I think the key thing fall asleep. But I I think the key thing is is that many of us are so is is that many of us are so is is that many of us are so disconnected from our bodies now and our disconnected from our bodies now and our disconnected from our bodies now and our ability to ability to ability to sit with it and and and and sort of sit with it and and and and sort of sit with it and and and and sort of understand ourselves. understand ourselves. understand ourselves. I do think for many people some kind of I do think for many people some kind of I do think for many people some kind of external monitor that gives you that external monitor that gives you that external monitor that gives you that feedback so that you go, "Hey, you know, feedback so that you go, "Hey, you know, feedback so that you go, "Hey, you know, I know I feel better when I've slowed my I know I feel better when I've slowed my I know I feel better when I've slowed my breathing down, but oh, I can also see breathing down, but oh, I can also see breathing down, but oh, I can also see that my nervous system state is that my nervous system state is that my nervous system state is different." different." different." I really do feel for so many people who I really do feel for so many people who I really do feel for so many people who struggle to relax and switch off, this struggle to relax and switch off, this struggle to relax and switch off, this could be a game-changer and I personally could be a game-changer and I personally could be a game-changer and I personally have not tried this stuff before, but have not tried this stuff before, but have not tried this stuff before, but you're saying you have tried it and you you're saying you have tried it and you you're saying you have tried it and you find it very useful. find it very useful. find it very useful. >> I use it on and off. So, there is this >> I use it on and off. So, there is this >> I use it on and off. So, there is this tension between the the reality that tension between the the reality that tension between the the reality that if we can be more tuned into our body, if we can be more tuned into our body, if we can be more tuned into our body, increase our interoceptive awareness, increase our interoceptive awareness, increase our interoceptive awareness, our our reading of the body sensations, our our reading of the body sensations, our our reading of the body sensations, our awareness of the feelings and our awareness of the feelings and our awareness of the feelings and signals from our body, signals from our body, signals from our body, that is so powerful and we don't need that is so powerful and we don't need that is so powerful and we don't need technology to do that if we're being technology to do that if we're being technology to do that if we're being mindful and doing these check-ins. So, mindful and doing these check-ins. So, mindful and doing these check-ins. So, where are we placing our attention? where are we placing our attention? where are we placing our attention? Right now, if if you just tune into your Right now, if if you just tune into your Right now, if if you just tune into your body and notice body and notice body and notice sensations, sensations, sensations, tension, tension, tension, that just automatically slows our that just automatically slows our that just automatically slows our breathing, right? We just all of a breathing, right? We just all of a breathing, right? We just all of a sudden sudden sudden are getting into our sensory world. are getting into our sensory world. are getting into our sensory world. Very, very powerful. It's almost Very, very powerful. It's almost Very, very powerful. It's almost impossible to impossible to impossible to be really worried and cognitively be really worried and cognitively be really worried and cognitively stressed and problem-solving while at stressed and problem-solving while at stressed and problem-solving while at the same time the same time the same time focusing on our breathing or releasing focusing on our breathing or releasing focusing on our breathing or releasing our muscle tension. So, shifting to the our muscle tension. So, shifting to the our muscle tension. So, shifting to the something sensory could be nature, something sensory could be nature, something sensory could be nature, petting our dog, tuning into our body, petting our dog, tuning into our body, petting our dog, tuning into our body, giving our self a hug. Big shift. We can giving our self a hug. Big shift. We can giving our self a hug. Big shift. We can do that for free. It's cheap. No do that for free. It's cheap. No do that for free. It's cheap. No technology needed. That's the tool we technology needed. That's the tool we technology needed. That's the tool we want. But, boy, we need extra help. It's want. But, boy, we need extra help. It's want. But, boy, we need extra help. It's really hard these days. We are so really hard these days. We are so really hard these days. We are so bombarded by stressful things in the bombarded by stressful things in the bombarded by stressful things in the world and in our personal lives. I world and in our personal lives. I world and in our personal lives. I I'll accept all the help I can get. So, I'll accept all the help I can get. So, I'll accept all the help I can get. So, I you know, I use things like HeartMath I you know, I use things like HeartMath I you know, I use things like HeartMath Inner on and off. I recently had a Inner on and off. I recently had a Inner on and off. I recently had a conversation with Jon Kabat-Zinn conversation with Jon Kabat-Zinn conversation with Jon Kabat-Zinn who has been, of course, practicing and who has been, of course, practicing and who has been, of course, practicing and teaching meditation most of his teaching meditation most of his teaching meditation most of his all of his adult life. And I'm a big all of his adult life. And I'm a big all of his adult life. And I'm a big proponent of Aura. I'm also one of their proponent of Aura. I'm also one of their proponent of Aura. I'm also one of their science advisors. So, that's my science advisors. So, that's my science advisors. So, that's my disclosure. disclosure. disclosure. Um for measuring stress in the body. Um for measuring stress in the body. Um for measuring stress in the body. And so, I was telling him how exciting And so, I was telling him how exciting And so, I was telling him how exciting it is to be able to on a daily basis I it is to be able to on a daily basis I it is to be able to on a daily basis I look forward to looking at what did my look forward to looking at what did my look forward to looking at what did my nervous system do during sleep? And, you nervous system do during sleep? And, you nervous system do during sleep? And, you know, what was my stress response when know, what was my stress response when know, what was my stress response when this or that happened? And at the end of this or that happened? And at the end of this or that happened? And at the end of the conversation the conversation the conversation he said, you know, that's he said, you know, that's he said, you know, that's that's wonderful, but I would never need that's wonderful, but I would never need that's wonderful, but I would never need that because that because that because look at this. This is what I've been look at this. This is what I've been look at this. This is what I've been doing my whole life. This doing my whole life. This doing my whole life. This reading my body. You know, and so that reading my body. You know, and so that reading my body. You know, and so that enhanced dedication to enhanced dedication to enhanced dedication to uh paying attention to the whole of us uh paying attention to the whole of us uh paying attention to the whole of us and interoceptive awareness and interoceptive awareness and interoceptive awareness is is is uh supersedes and overrides our need for uh supersedes and overrides our need for uh supersedes and overrides our need for technology, but most of us are not being technology, but most of us are not being technology, but most of us are not being that mindful. And we need that could that mindful. And we need that could that mindful. And we need that could benefit from that help. Although, I do benefit from that help. Although, I do benefit from that help. Although, I do want to say Rhonda and I are that 30% of want to say Rhonda and I are that 30% of want to say Rhonda and I are that 30% of people, that's probably a high estimate, people, that's probably a high estimate, people, that's probably a high estimate, do not benefit from monitoring their do not benefit from monitoring their do not benefit from monitoring their sleep. It makes them more neurotic and sleep. It makes them more neurotic and sleep. It makes them more neurotic and anxious. So, this is definitely not for anxious. So, this is definitely not for anxious. So, this is definitely not for everyone. everyone. everyone. >> What would you say, Alyssa, to people >> What would you say, Alyssa, to people >> What would you say, Alyssa, to people who do have wearables, well, you know, who do have wearables, well, you know, who do have wearables, well, you know, whatever brand they've chosen to get? whatever brand they've chosen to get? whatever brand they've chosen to get? What are the key things that you would What are the key things that you would What are the key things that you would like them to look at to help them like them to look at to help them like them to look at to help them understand the impact of stress on their understand the impact of stress on their understand the impact of stress on their bodies? bodies? bodies? >> Mhm, that's a great question. >> Mhm, that's a great question. >> Mhm, that's a great question. I think wearables I think wearables I think wearables are great for increasing our awareness are great for increasing our awareness are great for increasing our awareness for limited periods for limited periods for limited periods where we can actually become aware of where we can actually become aware of where we can actually become aware of how our exercise habits, our sleep how our exercise habits, our sleep how our exercise habits, our sleep times, all of these other things are times, all of these other things are times, all of these other things are affecting our nervous system. affecting our nervous system. affecting our nervous system. And And And for people who love to wear it all the for people who love to wear it all the for people who love to wear it all the time, I rarely take off my Oura Ring. time, I rarely take off my Oura Ring. time, I rarely take off my Oura Ring. That's fine, but the real goal is to That's fine, but the real goal is to That's fine, but the real goal is to increase the synchrony that the increase the synchrony that the increase the synchrony that the the attunement that we have with our the attunement that we have with our the attunement that we have with our body. body. body. And know what intervene daily And know what intervene daily And know what intervene daily interventions, nudges, micro practices interventions, nudges, micro practices interventions, nudges, micro practices help us. And then stop monitoring, help us. And then stop monitoring, help us. And then stop monitoring, right? So, once we know, we know. I right? So, once we know, we know. I right? So, once we know, we know. I mean, it's beautiful that you can get mean, it's beautiful that you can get mean, it's beautiful that you can get give yourself this holistic, here's give yourself this holistic, here's give yourself this holistic, here's where my mind-body complex is at today. where my mind-body complex is at today. where my mind-body complex is at today. So, maybe I want to be more gentle, So, maybe I want to be more gentle, So, maybe I want to be more gentle, maybe I need to do more self-care, or maybe I need to do more self-care, or maybe I need to do more self-care, or maybe I'm ready to like seize the day. maybe I'm ready to like seize the day. maybe I'm ready to like seize the day. Um, that's Um, that's Um, that's that's the goal, really, right? Not to that's the goal, really, right? Not to that's the goal, really, right? Not to depend on wearables. depend on wearables. depend on wearables. I really feel more strongly about that I really feel more strongly about that I really feel more strongly about that when we think about glucose monitoring. when we think about glucose monitoring. when we think about glucose monitoring. Glucose monitoring can drive you Glucose monitoring can drive you Glucose monitoring can drive you absolutely crazy. When you when you put absolutely crazy. When you when you put absolutely crazy. When you when you put in a continuous glucose monitor, and you in a continuous glucose monitor, and you in a continuous glucose monitor, and you can see how your can see how your can see how your glucose responds to everything you do. glucose responds to everything you do. glucose responds to everything you do. To your sleep, to every meal, To your sleep, to every meal, To your sleep, to every meal, um, to stress eating. I I've um, to stress eating. I I've um, to stress eating. I I've been so amused by how dramatic my been so amused by how dramatic my been so amused by how dramatic my glucose glucose glucose uh responds to uh responds to uh responds to when I haven't had enough sleep and I'm when I haven't had enough sleep and I'm when I haven't had enough sleep and I'm stressed about something and if I eat stressed about something and if I eat stressed about something and if I eat the wrong thing, boom, I'm like in a the wrong thing, boom, I'm like in a the wrong thing, boom, I'm like in a pre-diabetic state. So, I study that, pre-diabetic state. So, I study that, pre-diabetic state. So, I study that, but seeing that oh, that happens to me, but seeing that oh, that happens to me, but seeing that oh, that happens to me, too. It doesn't matter that I'm skinny too. It doesn't matter that I'm skinny too. It doesn't matter that I'm skinny and that I think I do the right things. and that I think I do the right things. and that I think I do the right things. We are all vulnerable to these laws of We are all vulnerable to these laws of We are all vulnerable to these laws of stress physiology. And especially as we stress physiology. And especially as we stress physiology. And especially as we as we age, we're we're more vulnerable. as we age, we're we're more vulnerable. as we age, we're we're more vulnerable. We all tend to get a bit more insulin We all tend to get a bit more insulin We all tend to get a bit more insulin resistant. resistant. resistant. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> As we age. So, the glucose monitoring, I >> As we age. So, the glucose monitoring, I >> As we age. So, the glucose monitoring, I think is an invaluable tool for looking think is an invaluable tool for looking think is an invaluable tool for looking inside. Of course, getting a fasting inside. Of course, getting a fasting inside. Of course, getting a fasting glucose glucose glucose uh as I'm uh as I'm uh as I'm as you could describe much better than I as you could describe much better than I as you could describe much better than I can, um can, um can, um the the the knowledge about whether we're knowledge about whether we're knowledge about whether we're pre-diabetic when we wake up after pre-diabetic when we wake up after pre-diabetic when we wake up after fasting fasting fasting is the most important knowledge. The is the most important knowledge. The is the most important knowledge. The levels of fasting insulin glucose. And levels of fasting insulin glucose. And levels of fasting insulin glucose. And so, that's step one. Everyone should so, that's step one. Everyone should so, that's step one. Everyone should know their fasting insulin glucose. know their fasting insulin glucose. know their fasting insulin glucose. But, But, But, even if you're not pre-diabetic, knowing even if you're not pre-diabetic, knowing even if you're not pre-diabetic, knowing when you are having huge when you are having huge when you are having huge insulin and glucose spikes because of insulin and glucose spikes because of insulin and glucose spikes because of your dietary patterns or timing of your dietary patterns or timing of your dietary patterns or timing of eating is also invaluable. That's kind eating is also invaluable. That's kind eating is also invaluable. That's kind of a an optimized way of thinking about of a an optimized way of thinking about of a an optimized way of thinking about really promoting metabolic sensitivity really promoting metabolic sensitivity really promoting metabolic sensitivity and enhanced functioning in our older and enhanced functioning in our older and enhanced functioning in our older years. years. years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now, I'm just going to answer the rest >> Now, I'm just going to answer the rest >> Now, I'm just going to answer the rest of your question about what to monitor. of your question about what to monitor. of your question about what to monitor. >> Okay, sure. >> Okay, sure. >> Okay, sure. >> When we look at a a biosensor for >> When we look at a a biosensor for >> When we look at a a biosensor for stress, we're just measuring stress, we're just measuring stress, we're just measuring physiological stress. This has physiological stress. This has physiological stress. This has uh some relationship to emotional uh some relationship to emotional uh some relationship to emotional stress, but stress, but stress, but that correlation is usually pretty weak. that correlation is usually pretty weak. that correlation is usually pretty weak. So, when we look at daily stress, we're So, when we look at daily stress, we're So, when we look at daily stress, we're looking at arousal from positive things looking at arousal from positive things looking at arousal from positive things like socializing and activity like socializing and activity like socializing and activity and engaging in challenging activities and engaging in challenging activities and engaging in challenging activities even more than it's reflecting emotional even more than it's reflecting emotional even more than it's reflecting emotional stress. So, stress. So, stress. So, daily stress I don't take too seriously daily stress I don't take too seriously daily stress I don't take too seriously when I look at a biosensor. I do like to when I look at a biosensor. I do like to when I look at a biosensor. I do like to make sure that I'm not staying in the make sure that I'm not staying in the make sure that I'm not staying in the high arousal zone all day. You want to high arousal zone all day. You want to high arousal zone all day. You want to see a lot of up and down. You want to see a lot of up and down. You want to see a lot of up and down. You want to see that see that see that green mind state green mind state green mind state be present and manifest at different be present and manifest at different be present and manifest at different times throughout the day. times throughout the day. times throughout the day. The The The nice thing about these wearables nice thing about these wearables nice thing about these wearables is that they're leaning more toward is that they're leaning more toward is that they're leaning more toward longer-term longer-term longer-term monitoring so that we're really focused monitoring so that we're really focused monitoring so that we're really focused on what's our trajectory. Are we in a on what's our trajectory. Are we in a on what's our trajectory. Are we in a high-risk zone with high-risk zone with high-risk zone with with the way we've been sleeping and with the way we've been sleeping and with the way we've been sleeping and with the way our nervous system has been with the way our nervous system has been with the way our nervous system has been working over the last weeks or months. working over the last weeks or months. working over the last weeks or months. So, for example, Aura has a measure So, for example, Aura has a measure So, for example, Aura has a measure called cumulative stress that is has called cumulative stress that is has called cumulative stress that is has been trained on been trained on been trained on uh uh uh the measure of burnout and chronic the measure of burnout and chronic the measure of burnout and chronic stress stress stress by people's lived experience. So, by people's lived experience. So, by people's lived experience. So, they've trained this metric of they've trained this metric of they've trained this metric of cumulative stress based on uh people who cumulative stress based on uh people who cumulative stress based on uh people who are experiencing high levels of chronic are experiencing high levels of chronic are experiencing high levels of chronic stress and burnout. So, that's a very stress and burnout. So, that's a very stress and burnout. So, that's a very valuable and meaningful metric and we valuable and meaningful metric and we valuable and meaningful metric and we want to try to want to try to want to try to monitor that in a monthly fashion to monitor that in a monthly fashion to monitor that in a monthly fashion to make sure that we're staying in a lower make sure that we're staying in a lower make sure that we're staying in a lower risk zone. risk zone. risk zone. >> One thing I did want to talk to you >> One thing I did want to talk to you >> One thing I did want to talk to you about is your study on mindful eating in about is your study on mindful eating in about is your study on mindful eating in pregnancy. I thought it was quite pregnancy. I thought it was quite pregnancy. I thought it was quite profound because from recollection, profound because from recollection, profound because from recollection, there was an impact on blood glucose and there was an impact on blood glucose and there was an impact on blood glucose and also things like cortisol and moods. also things like cortisol and moods. also things like cortisol and moods. Could you just walk us through it what Could you just walk us through it what Could you just walk us through it what what it was and what the what it found? what it was and what the what it found? what it was and what the what it found? >> We've been very interested in using >> We've been very interested in using >> We've been very interested in using mindfulness and mindful eating to help mindfulness and mindful eating to help mindfulness and mindful eating to help people right before they're eating, when people right before they're eating, when people right before they're eating, when they're starting to feel cravings and they're starting to feel cravings and they're starting to feel cravings and hungry, to bring in hungry, to bring in hungry, to bring in the ability to determine the ability to determine the ability to determine is this real hunger? Is this craving is this real hunger? Is this craving is this real hunger? Is this craving about boredom or sadness? about boredom or sadness? about boredom or sadness? Or is it that I really need calories Or is it that I really need calories Or is it that I really need calories right now and I should have a meal? So right now and I should have a meal? So right now and I should have a meal? So just that check-in interoceptive just that check-in interoceptive just that check-in interoceptive awareness really about true hunger awareness really about true hunger awareness really about true hunger versus emotions disguised with hunger. We We can easily can easily can easily feel cravings and feelings of hunger feel cravings and feelings of hunger feel cravings and feelings of hunger when we're stressed. when we're stressed. when we're stressed. And even sadness can increase cravings And even sadness can increase cravings And even sadness can increase cravings and hunger. and hunger. and hunger. So we really get mixed signals, they're So we really get mixed signals, they're So we really get mixed signals, they're very tied up together. very tied up together. very tied up together. Stress and eating. Stress and eating. Stress and eating. For many people For many people For many people especially if we have excess weight, especially if we have excess weight, especially if we have excess weight, stress triggers stress triggers stress triggers feelings of desire to eat, but it's not true desire to eat, but it's not true physiological hunger. And so how do we physiological hunger. And so how do we physiological hunger. And so how do we get below that? How do we really get below that? How do we really get below that? How do we really fine-tune our ability to fine-tune our ability to fine-tune our ability to determine if we if it's a good time to determine if we if it's a good time to determine if we if it's a good time to eat eat eat and to restrain and inhibit overeating. and to restrain and inhibit overeating. and to restrain and inhibit overeating. That's not easy. We all struggle with That's not easy. We all struggle with That's not easy. We all struggle with that. that. that. We know that it's normal for stress to We know that it's normal for stress to We know that it's normal for stress to trigger our trigger our trigger our um um um strong drive to get dense calories strong drive to get dense calories strong drive to get dense calories um um um sweets and fats definitely are our sweets and fats definitely are our sweets and fats definitely are our biological signal for dense calories. So biological signal for dense calories. So biological signal for dense calories. So how do we get beyond that? how do we get beyond that? how do we get beyond that? So for years we've been training people So for years we've been training people So for years we've been training people in mindful eating and these mini in mindful eating and these mini in mindful eating and these mini meditations right before they eat to meditations right before they eat to meditations right before they eat to really discern really discern really discern whether they are going to choose to eat whether they are going to choose to eat whether they are going to choose to eat and what they're going to choose to eat and what they're going to choose to eat and what they're going to choose to eat and how much. So, really helping people and how much. So, really helping people and how much. So, really helping people in a sense develop some meta-cognition in a sense develop some meta-cognition in a sense develop some meta-cognition and control. It helps, mindful eating and control. It helps, mindful eating and control. It helps, mindful eating helps. It tends to help reduce helps. It tends to help reduce helps. It tends to help reduce disregulated eating and disregulated eating and disregulated eating and insulin and glucose spikes. insulin and glucose spikes. insulin and glucose spikes. And it doesn't necessarily help with And it doesn't necessarily help with And it doesn't necessarily help with weight loss, but it helps with inner weight loss, but it helps with inner weight loss, but it helps with inner health, the metabolic health. That's health, the metabolic health. That's health, the metabolic health. That's what we care most about. what we care most about. what we care most about. That's what is matters most for health, That's what is matters most for health, That's what is matters most for health, not necessarily what's the scale says, not necessarily what's the scale says, not necessarily what's the scale says, but rather how stable our glucose is. but rather how stable our glucose is. but rather how stable our glucose is. We wanted to test if mindful eating We wanted to test if mindful eating We wanted to test if mindful eating could help women during pregnancy, a could help women during pregnancy, a could help women during pregnancy, a time when there were very strong time when there were very strong time when there were very strong cravings and a time when it's very easy cravings and a time when it's very easy cravings and a time when it's very easy to gain excess weight, more weight than to gain excess weight, more weight than to gain excess weight, more weight than is healthy and needed. is healthy and needed. is healthy and needed. So, we So, we So, we we enrolled some volunteers, women who we enrolled some volunteers, women who we enrolled some volunteers, women who were already overweight and were early were already overweight and were early were already overweight and were early in their pregnancy. We found 200 in their pregnancy. We found 200 in their pregnancy. We found 200 pregnant women and randomized them in pregnant women and randomized them in pregnant women and randomized them in different ways, different groups of 10, different ways, different groups of 10, different ways, different groups of 10, to a mindful eating and stress reduction to a mindful eating and stress reduction to a mindful eating and stress reduction group or to treatment as usual, uh the group or to treatment as usual, uh the group or to treatment as usual, uh the control group, which is control group, which is control group, which is um just their their usual medical care. um just their their usual medical care. um just their their usual medical care. And we found that And we found that And we found that within that first 2-month period when within that first 2-month period when within that first 2-month period when women were getting weekly training women were getting weekly training women were getting weekly training together in mindful eating and mindful together in mindful eating and mindful together in mindful eating and mindful stress reduction stress reduction stress reduction that that that their glucose became their glucose became their glucose became much more normalized. They had much more normalized. They had much more normalized. They had reductions in impaired glucose tolerance reductions in impaired glucose tolerance reductions in impaired glucose tolerance during pregnancy than women in the during pregnancy than women in the during pregnancy than women in the control group. control group. control group. And then we followed these women out And then we followed these women out And then we followed these women out through their pregnancy and my colleague through their pregnancy and my colleague through their pregnancy and my colleague Nikki Bush followed the babies for Nikki Bush followed the babies for Nikki Bush followed the babies for another eight years. another eight years. another eight years. And that was quite remarkable because we And that was quite remarkable because we And that was quite remarkable because we found that not only did the women found that not only did the women found that not only did the women benefit in stress and depression and benefit in stress and depression and benefit in stress and depression and metabolic health, metabolic health, metabolic health, but that but that but that every year later, all the way up to every year later, all the way up to every year later, all the way up to eight years later, they remained lower eight years later, they remained lower eight years later, they remained lower in depression and stress. in depression and stress. in depression and stress. And their babies came out with more And their babies came out with more And their babies came out with more stress resilience in their own nervous stress resilience in their own nervous stress resilience in their own nervous systems. When they were stressed out in systems. When they were stressed out in systems. When they were stressed out in the lab, they recovered more quickly. the lab, they recovered more quickly. the lab, they recovered more quickly. >> And this is incredible hearing that. I >> And this is incredible hearing that. I >> And this is incredible hearing that. I mean, so you're essentially taking mean, so you're essentially taking mean, so you're essentially taking a cohort pregnant women, teaching them a cohort pregnant women, teaching them a cohort pregnant women, teaching them about mindful eating about mindful eating about mindful eating and you know, more awareness before they and you know, more awareness before they and you know, more awareness before they Is this physical hunger or is this Is this physical hunger or is this Is this physical hunger or is this emotional hunger? emotional hunger? emotional hunger? And And And that's having an impact on their glucose that's having an impact on their glucose that's having an impact on their glucose control, control, control, their stress levels, their mood, which their stress levels, their mood, which their stress levels, their mood, which you can see even seven or eight years you can see even seven or eight years you can see even seven or eight years later, later, later, but it's also having an impact but it's also having an impact but it's also having an impact on the fetus. on the fetus. on the fetus. And so when the fetus is born and is a And so when the fetus is born and is a And so when the fetus is born and is a baby, the stress resilience of that child the stress resilience of that child is improved. I mean, this is quite is improved. I mean, this is quite is improved. I mean, this is quite profound, Alyssa, what you're saying. profound, Alyssa, what you're saying. profound, Alyssa, what you're saying. What what What do you think What what What do you think What what What do you think was going on in that study? I mean, what was going on in that study? I mean, what was going on in that study? I mean, what was the change that occurred that led to was the change that occurred that led to was the change that occurred that led to all of these quite phenomenal results? all of these quite phenomenal results? all of these quite phenomenal results? >> Yes, that's the big question and we >> Yes, that's the big question and we >> Yes, that's the big question and we absolutely need to absolutely need to absolutely need to study this further to really understand study this further to really understand study this further to really understand the mechanisms, but we're so excited. We the mechanisms, but we're so excited. We the mechanisms, but we're so excited. We know that the benefit is high of this uh know that the benefit is high of this uh know that the benefit is high of this uh group training and the risks of it are group training and the risks of it are group training and the risks of it are low or non-existent. And so it's so low or non-existent. And so it's so low or non-existent. And so it's so important important important for hospitals for hospitals for hospitals and health care systems to know about and health care systems to know about and health care systems to know about not just offering mindfulness for stress not just offering mindfulness for stress not just offering mindfulness for stress reduction, but for this very critical reduction, but for this very critical reduction, but for this very critical period for pregnant women that this is period for pregnant women that this is period for pregnant women that this is potentially creating tremendous potentially creating tremendous potentially creating tremendous neuroplasticity neuroplasticity neuroplasticity in the mom's brain and in the mom's brain and in the mom's brain and eventually it looks like in the eventually it looks like in the eventually it looks like in the developing fetus as you said. We just developing fetus as you said. We just developing fetus as you said. We just don't know exactly don't know exactly don't know exactly what led to all these benefits. So, the what led to all these benefits. So, the what led to all these benefits. So, the mom is creating an intrauterine mom is creating an intrauterine mom is creating an intrauterine environment that's healthier, less environment that's healthier, less environment that's healthier, less metabolic stress, less metabolic stress, less metabolic stress, less um physiological stress um physiological stress um physiological stress in terms of the in terms of the in terms of the of her perceived stress being lower, her of her perceived stress being lower, her of her perceived stress being lower, her physiological stress is then presumably physiological stress is then presumably physiological stress is then presumably lower. lower. lower. Her glucose is at a much more healthier Her glucose is at a much more healthier Her glucose is at a much more healthier level during those months of level during those months of level during those months of development. So, there is that prenatal development. So, there is that prenatal development. So, there is that prenatal priming or um you know, period of critical development you know, period of critical development that may have contributed to some of the that may have contributed to some of the that may have contributed to some of the offspring benefits. offspring benefits. offspring benefits. They also came out with less They also came out with less They also came out with less um um um early early excess weight in the babies, early early excess weight in the babies, early early excess weight in the babies, too. too. too. It could be that the moms were then It could be that the moms were then It could be that the moms were then using these stress resilience skills as using these stress resilience skills as using these stress resilience skills as their parenting in those early months their parenting in those early months their parenting in those early months when things are so stressful. when things are so stressful. when things are so stressful. >> Yeah, I mean, one thing we do know from >> Yeah, I mean, one thing we do know from >> Yeah, I mean, one thing we do know from other pieces of research is that how other pieces of research is that how other pieces of research is that how stressed a parent is around, you know, stressed a parent is around, you know, stressed a parent is around, you know, well, during pregnancy well, during pregnancy well, during pregnancy can impact the child's stress resilience can impact the child's stress resilience can impact the child's stress resilience and have a long-term impact on that. And and have a long-term impact on that. And and have a long-term impact on that. And I don't say that to make anyone feel I don't say that to make anyone feel I don't say that to make anyone feel bad, you know, everyone's doing the best bad, you know, everyone's doing the best bad, you know, everyone's doing the best they can. Sometimes we do have stressful they can. Sometimes we do have stressful they can. Sometimes we do have stressful lives when we're pregnant, but there are lives when we're pregnant, but there are lives when we're pregnant, but there are some cultures out there who do some cultures out there who do some cultures out there who do prioritize rest. Okay, we know, for prioritize rest. Okay, we know, for prioritize rest. Okay, we know, for example, in Denmark, which is regarded example, in Denmark, which is regarded example, in Denmark, which is regarded as one of the happiest nations in the as one of the happiest nations in the as one of the happiest nations in the world, I've spoken to quite a few Danish world, I've spoken to quite a few Danish world, I've spoken to quite a few Danish people before who say people before who say people before who say in a lot of the offices in a lot of the offices in a lot of the offices you leave at 4:00. you leave at 4:00. you leave at 4:00. That is alien in the UK. It's even more That is alien in the UK. It's even more That is alien in the UK. It's even more alien, I would say, in the US. My alien, I would say, in the US. My alien, I would say, in the US. My perception perception perception of America is that there is a real of America is that there is a real of America is that there is a real go-get-'em work culture, don't stop, go-get-'em work culture, don't stop, go-get-'em work culture, don't stop, don't get much maternity, you know, as don't get much maternity, you know, as don't get much maternity, you know, as soon as you can, let's get back to work. soon as you can, let's get back to work. soon as you can, let's get back to work. Again, I'm not here to to criticize or Again, I'm not here to to criticize or Again, I'm not here to to criticize or judge. It's just an observation that judge. It's just an observation that judge. It's just an observation that different cultures clearly prioritize different cultures clearly prioritize different cultures clearly prioritize different things. And and the the different things. And and the the different things. And and the the different things they prioritize different things they prioritize different things they prioritize lead to different consequences. lead to different consequences. lead to different consequences. >> Absolutely. And really, the culture, the >> Absolutely. And really, the culture, the >> Absolutely. And really, the culture, the beliefs, the common values, beliefs, the common values, beliefs, the common values, that is the that is the that is the the most important lever in determining the most important lever in determining the most important lever in determining are we a healthy country or sick are we a healthy country or sick are we a healthy country or sick country? country? country? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And there is good data now that the >> And there is good data now that the >> And there is good data now that the shorter work day, shorter work day, shorter work day, the shorter work week can be just as the shorter work week can be just as the shorter work week can be just as profitable. profitable. profitable. And everyone's happier. And everyone's happier. And everyone's happier. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And healthier. And so, the more those >> And healthier. And so, the more those >> And healthier. And so, the more those studies come out, I think the more studies come out, I think the more studies come out, I think the more businesses will stop this thinking of businesses will stop this thinking of businesses will stop this thinking of time as so linear with profit and time as so linear with profit and time as so linear with profit and understanding that that human potential understanding that that human potential understanding that that human potential and well-being and well-being and well-being is the real resource to invest in. is the real resource to invest in. is the real resource to invest in. >> Yeah. Have you tried to meditate before? >> Yeah. Have you tried to meditate before? >> Yeah. Have you tried to meditate before? Perhaps you've heard about some of the Perhaps you've heard about some of the Perhaps you've heard about some of the benefits, like reducing stress and benefits, like reducing stress and benefits, like reducing stress and increased focus. And you've given it a increased focus. And you've given it a increased focus. And you've given it a go and thought it's not the practice for go and thought it's not the practice for go and thought it's not the practice for you. you. you. Well, I believe that may well be because Well, I believe that may well be because Well, I believe that may well be because you have not tried the right approach. you have not tried the right approach. you have not tried the right approach. The Way is the only meditation app with The Way is the only meditation app with The Way is the only meditation app with a single long-term pathway. You're not a single long-term pathway. You're not a single long-term pathway. You're not forced to make loads of choices each forced to make loads of choices each forced to make loads of choices each day. Instead, you're guided on an day. Instead, you're guided on an day. Instead, you're guided on an enjoyable and progressive journey that enjoyable and progressive journey that enjoyable and progressive journey that deepens your practice step-by-step. deepens your practice step-by-step. deepens your practice step-by-step. Since I partnered with the way, I have Since I partnered with the way, I have Since I partnered with the way, I have had so much positive feedback. One had so much positive feedback. One had so much positive feedback. One listener said, "Dr. Chatterjee, I came listener said, "Dr. Chatterjee, I came listener said, "Dr. Chatterjee, I came to the way through your podcast. I have to the way through your podcast. I have to the way through your podcast. I have tried other meditation apps in the past tried other meditation apps in the past tried other meditation apps in the past with limited success and like the idea with limited success and like the idea with limited success and like the idea of following a single guided path. I'm of following a single guided path. I'm of following a single guided path. I'm nearly 2 months in now and loving it. nearly 2 months in now and loving it. nearly 2 months in now and loving it. Andy's gentle and concise approach is Andy's gentle and concise approach is Andy's gentle and concise approach is very calming and the way is now a part very calming and the way is now a part very calming and the way is now a part of my morning routine." You see, that's of my morning routine." You see, that's of my morning routine." You see, that's the sentiment that so many people report the sentiment that so many people report the sentiment that so many people report when they start meditating with the way. when they start meditating with the way. when they start meditating with the way. For listeners of my podcast, The Way is For listeners of my podcast, The Way is For listeners of my podcast, The Way is offering 30 free days to establish your offering 30 free days to establish your offering 30 free days to establish your own meditation practice. All you have to own meditation practice. All you have to own meditation practice. All you have to do is click on the QR code on screen or do is click on the QR code on screen or do is click on the QR code on screen or go to the wayapp.com/livemore to get started. I guess if I zoom out, to get started. I guess if I zoom out, you made it clear that acute stress is you made it clear that acute stress is you made it clear that acute stress is not inherently bad. We need acute stress not inherently bad. We need acute stress not inherently bad. We need acute stress to function at our best. At the same to function at our best. At the same to function at our best. At the same time, that chronic, non-stop, time, that chronic, non-stop, time, that chronic, non-stop, unrelenting stress unrelenting stress unrelenting stress is what ages us faster and increases our is what ages us faster and increases our is what ages us faster and increases our risk of all kinds of chronic diseases risk of all kinds of chronic diseases risk of all kinds of chronic diseases including dementia, cancer, autoimmune including dementia, cancer, autoimmune including dementia, cancer, autoimmune disease, heart disease, and and the disease, heart disease, and and the disease, heart disease, and and the like. like. like. But with that backdrop, we're thinking But with that backdrop, we're thinking But with that backdrop, we're thinking about what are the practices that we can about what are the practices that we can about what are the practices that we can do to help reduce that. You mentioned do to help reduce that. You mentioned do to help reduce that. You mentioned that that that critical window before bed and how critical window before bed and how critical window before bed and how breathwork, for example, or slowing your breathwork, for example, or slowing your breathwork, for example, or slowing your breathing down, doing your body scan can breathing down, doing your body scan can breathing down, doing your body scan can be very helpful. be very helpful. be very helpful. What have you found What have you found What have you found in terms of the relationship between joy in terms of the relationship between joy in terms of the relationship between joy and the stress response? and the stress response? and the stress response? >> There's a large literature on positive >> There's a large literature on positive >> There's a large literature on positive psychology showing that psychology showing that psychology showing that there are many things we can do to boost there are many things we can do to boost there are many things we can do to boost our positive emotion and that that our positive emotion and that that our positive emotion and that that actually is a shortcut to reducing actually is a shortcut to reducing actually is a shortcut to reducing stress. stress. stress. Boosting positive affect in healthy ways Boosting positive affect in healthy ways Boosting positive affect in healthy ways makes us feel stress less. It makes us makes us feel stress less. It makes us makes us feel stress less. It makes us perceive things as less stressful. perceive things as less stressful. perceive things as less stressful. And so this is this huge opportunity to And so this is this huge opportunity to And so this is this huge opportunity to boost our well-being without focusing on boost our well-being without focusing on boost our well-being without focusing on symptoms of stress and depression. symptoms of stress and depression. symptoms of stress and depression. In one study, we decided to test whether In one study, we decided to test whether In one study, we decided to test whether these short behaviors that produce these short behaviors that produce these short behaviors that produce bursts of positive affect would produce bursts of positive affect would produce bursts of positive affect would produce additive effects over the week and would additive effects over the week and would additive effects over the week and would they really increase deep well-being, they really increase deep well-being, they really increase deep well-being, the purpose and meaning and the purpose and meaning and the purpose and meaning and greater intimacy and relationships that greater intimacy and relationships that greater intimacy and relationships that people can feel. We call that emotional people can feel. We call that emotional people can feel. We call that emotional well-being and that's well-being and that's well-being and that's almost independent of feelings of stress almost independent of feelings of stress almost independent of feelings of stress and depression. We can have flourishing and depression. We can have flourishing and depression. We can have flourishing even when we're suffering and struggling even when we're suffering and struggling even when we're suffering and struggling with stressful situations or chronic with stressful situations or chronic with stressful situations or chronic illness or illness or illness or intermittent depression. So we want to intermittent depression. So we want to intermittent depression. So we want to boost and focus on these positive boost and focus on these positive boost and focus on these positive aspects of life aspects of life aspects of life and we can increase positive affect and we can increase positive affect and we can increase positive affect within minutes just like we can reduce within minutes just like we can reduce within minutes just like we can reduce stress within minutes. stress within minutes. stress within minutes. So we tested out a handful of these So we tested out a handful of these So we tested out a handful of these micro acts of joy, being kind to a micro acts of joy, being kind to a micro acts of joy, being kind to a stranger, stranger, stranger, um talking with someone about something um talking with someone about something um talking with someone about something they're they're they're they experienced recently that they're they experienced recently that they're they experienced recently that they're proud or happy about and really proud or happy about and really proud or happy about and really experiencing their joy with them. experiencing their joy with them. experiencing their joy with them. We had other ways of inducing joy like We had other ways of inducing joy like We had other ways of inducing joy like gratitude, making a short gratitude gratitude, making a short gratitude gratitude, making a short gratitude list. list. list. And we studied this in about 20,000 And we studied this in about 20,000 And we studied this in about 20,000 people over a week and anyone can try people over a week and anyone can try people over a week and anyone can try this platform of micro acts of joy. We this platform of micro acts of joy. We this platform of micro acts of joy. We still still still are collecting data for our studies, so are collecting data for our studies, so are collecting data for our studies, so you could just type in the Big Joy you could just type in the Big Joy you could just type in the Big Joy Project if you want to try this. What we Project if you want to try this. What we Project if you want to try this. What we found found found were several things. Number one, were several things. Number one, were several things. Number one, even in this remote massive study, even in this remote massive study, even in this remote massive study, when people read about how to try out when people read about how to try out when people read about how to try out this micro act of joy, it this micro act of joy, it this micro act of joy, it boosted their positive affect to various boosted their positive affect to various boosted their positive affect to various extents. extents. extents. But that positive affect But that positive affect But that positive affect often lasted through the evening. When often lasted through the evening. When often lasted through the evening. When we again measured their feelings of we again measured their feelings of we again measured their feelings of positive and negative emotions, we see positive and negative emotions, we see positive and negative emotions, we see lasting effects. And over the week, we lasting effects. And over the week, we lasting effects. And over the week, we see a build up of joy, this positive see a build up of joy, this positive see a build up of joy, this positive cycle where the next day when they woke cycle where the next day when they woke cycle where the next day when they woke up, they actually felt a bit more up, they actually felt a bit more up, they actually felt a bit more positive than the previous day. So, that positive than the previous day. So, that positive than the previous day. So, that was a beautiful shift really in their was a beautiful shift really in their was a beautiful shift really in their baseline baseline baseline emotional tone. And at the end of the emotional tone. And at the end of the emotional tone. And at the end of the week, we found improvements in week, we found improvements in week, we found improvements in feelings of altruism and pro-sociality. feelings of altruism and pro-sociality. feelings of altruism and pro-sociality. So, this social aspect of joy, helping So, this social aspect of joy, helping So, this social aspect of joy, helping others, being kind, uh sending love and others, being kind, uh sending love and others, being kind, uh sending love and kindness, kindness, kindness, these are very powerful and they these are very powerful and they these are very powerful and they increased increased increased how much people felt like they wanted to how much people felt like they wanted to how much people felt like they wanted to make sacrifices make sacrifices make sacrifices so that others could live a better life. so that others could live a better life. so that others could live a better life. So, that's remarkable. That love that um So, that's remarkable. That love that um So, that's remarkable. That love that um kind of attitude of altruism that we kind of attitude of altruism that we kind of attitude of altruism that we could change that just with these small could change that just with these small could change that just with these small boosts in positive emotion. boosts in positive emotion. boosts in positive emotion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And what a wonderful prescription from a And what a wonderful prescription from a And what a wonderful prescription from a stress researcher or a doctor to say do stress researcher or a doctor to say do stress researcher or a doctor to say do things that you enjoy, right? [laughter] things that you enjoy, right? [laughter] things that you enjoy, right? [laughter] You know, a lot of the time people think You know, a lot of the time people think You know, a lot of the time people think about health as being things that oh, about health as being things that oh, about health as being things that oh, I've got to not have this and not eat I've got to not have this and not eat I've got to not have this and not eat that and that and that and actually, I like you, for many years actually, I like you, for many years actually, I like you, for many years have been trying to promote joy. I have been trying to promote joy. I have been trying to promote joy. I remember maybe 10 years ago reading a remember maybe 10 years ago reading a remember maybe 10 years ago reading a research paper showing us that people research paper showing us that people research paper showing us that people who regularly do things that they love who regularly do things that they love who regularly do things that they love are more resilient to stress. And it are more resilient to stress. And it are more resilient to stress. And it kind of kind of kind of echoes echoes echoes very nicely with what you just said and very nicely with what you just said and very nicely with what you just said and what your study is showing, and of what your study is showing, and of what your study is showing, and of course, what I find joyful may be course, what I find joyful may be course, what I find joyful may be different from what you find joyful. And different from what you find joyful. And different from what you find joyful. And in terms of that pro-sociality and our in terms of that pro-sociality and our in terms of that pro-sociality and our desire to be kind and considerate to the desire to be kind and considerate to the desire to be kind and considerate to the world around us, world around us, world around us, it it just seems to be such an important it it just seems to be such an important it it just seems to be such an important thing for us all to focus on at a time thing for us all to focus on at a time thing for us all to focus on at a time when the world can sometimes seem quite when the world can sometimes seem quite when the world can sometimes seem quite divided. divided. divided. If we can have fun more and do things If we can have fun more and do things If we can have fun more and do things that we enjoy more, that we enjoy more, that we enjoy more, it's probably going to then magnify out it's probably going to then magnify out it's probably going to then magnify out into a more cohesive society because into a more cohesive society because into a more cohesive society because we're going to be nicer to the people we're going to be nicer to the people we're going to be nicer to the people around us. around us. around us. >> Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. >> Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. >> Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think that's the in the focus on I think that's the in the focus on I think that's the in the focus on individual individual individual health and individual mental health health and individual mental health health and individual mental health is is is really limiting us from seeing the really limiting us from seeing the really limiting us from seeing the potential of actually how the big potential of actually how the big potential of actually how the big levers, the big effects are about levers, the big effects are about levers, the big effects are about how we help each other, how we connect how we help each other, how we connect how we help each other, how we connect with each other, that feeling of safety with each other, that feeling of safety with each other, that feeling of safety we're talking about. Like, we can't we're talking about. Like, we can't we're talking about. Like, we can't fully relax unless we feel at least a fully relax unless we feel at least a fully relax unless we feel at least a bit safer. bit safer. bit safer. Is all about social safety. Do we feel Is all about social safety. Do we feel Is all about social safety. Do we feel someone has our back? Do we feel someone has our back? Do we feel someone has our back? Do we feel connected? Is there someone that we can connected? Is there someone that we can connected? Is there someone that we can talk to when we feel really in need? >> The final thing I wanted to talk to you >> The final thing I wanted to talk to you about, Alyssa, is probably my favorite about, Alyssa, is probably my favorite about, Alyssa, is probably my favorite topic when it comes to stress, which is topic when it comes to stress, which is topic when it comes to stress, which is our perception of stress. our perception of stress. our perception of stress. And one of the reasons I'm so passionate And one of the reasons I'm so passionate And one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this is because I feel that about this is because I feel that about this is because I feel that some of the quantum leaps in my own some of the quantum leaps in my own some of the quantum leaps in my own well-being and happiness and well-being and happiness and well-being and happiness and contentedness have come contentedness have come contentedness have come from my from my from my deep realization that most situations in deep realization that most situations in deep realization that most situations in life life life can be considered neutral. Most. can be considered neutral. Most. can be considered neutral. Most. And it's really the perception that we And it's really the perception that we And it's really the perception that we choose to take on that neutral event choose to take on that neutral event choose to take on that neutral event that determines its outcome on us. that determines its outcome on us. that determines its outcome on us. I know you've done some interesting work I know you've done some interesting work I know you've done some interesting work showing that our perception of stress showing that our perception of stress showing that our perception of stress quite literally changes quite literally changes quite literally changes the the physiology of the stress the the physiology of the stress the the physiology of the stress response, which is which is truly quite response, which is which is truly quite response, which is which is truly quite remarkable. I think you talk about it remarkable. I think you talk about it remarkable. I think you talk about it in terms of a survival response versus a in terms of a survival response versus a in terms of a survival response versus a challenge response. So, can you just challenge response. So, can you just challenge response. So, can you just speak to this area because I think there speak to this area because I think there speak to this area because I think there is a a feeling out there that is a a feeling out there that is a a feeling out there that an event is either stressful or it's not an event is either stressful or it's not an event is either stressful or it's not stressful. stressful. stressful. But of course, the same event is not But of course, the same event is not But of course, the same event is not stressful in the same degree to every stressful in the same degree to every stressful in the same degree to every single person. So, there is an single person. So, there is an single person. So, there is an interaction, isn't there, between the interaction, isn't there, between the interaction, isn't there, between the stressor and our internal state that stressor and our internal state that stressor and our internal state that ultimately determines a huge part of ultimately determines a huge part of ultimately determines a huge part of whether this is stressful or not. whether this is stressful or not. whether this is stressful or not. >> You just described it so well. >> You just described it so well. >> You just described it so well. It is about our perception It is about our perception It is about our perception of of whatever is happening out there in of of whatever is happening out there in of of whatever is happening out there in our body. It's the story we are telling our body. It's the story we are telling our body. It's the story we are telling ourselves. What is our narrative? ourselves. What is our narrative? ourselves. What is our narrative? If we are seeing and embedding a If we are seeing and embedding a If we are seeing and embedding a situation with situation with situation with more threat and more danger than than is more threat and more danger than than is more threat and more danger than than is really there, we are driving really there, we are driving really there, we are driving an excessive and unnecessary stress an excessive and unnecessary stress an excessive and unnecessary stress response. And that tendency to response. And that tendency to response. And that tendency to to over attribute to over attribute to over attribute danger, threat danger, threat danger, threat is biologically conserved. It is our is biologically conserved. It is our is biologically conserved. It is our safety response. So, we've got to have a safety response. So, we've got to have a safety response. So, we've got to have a lot of compassion and kindness and humor lot of compassion and kindness and humor lot of compassion and kindness and humor about the stories we tell about the stories we tell about the stories we tell because we're just because we're just because we're just you know, let's say the majority of us you know, let's say the majority of us you know, let's say the majority of us are just are just are just over-exaggerating threat and even over-exaggerating threat and even over-exaggerating threat and even unconsciously all the time. unconsciously all the time. unconsciously all the time. So, just asking ourselves, what is So, just asking ourselves, what is So, just asking ourselves, what is the story right now? the story right now? the story right now? And And And is that true? What are alternative is that true? What are alternative is that true? What are alternative stories? Is there, you know, what is the stories? Is there, you know, what is the stories? Is there, you know, what is the the the likely outcome here? What is the the the likely outcome here? What is the the the likely outcome here? What is the worst outcome? worst outcome? worst outcome? Just that inquiry, just that curiosity Just that inquiry, just that curiosity Just that inquiry, just that curiosity is going to deflate is going to deflate is going to deflate our ability to catastrophize and our ability to catastrophize and our ability to catastrophize and exaggerate. exaggerate. exaggerate. And so, just stepping back and like you And so, just stepping back and like you And so, just stepping back and like you said said said asking ourselves asking ourselves asking ourselves to take a, you know, realistic to take a, you know, realistic to take a, you know, realistic assessment of the situation assessment of the situation assessment of the situation is very powerful. But, do um Rangan, do is very powerful. But, do um Rangan, do is very powerful. But, do um Rangan, do you have any examples of when you had you have any examples of when you had you have any examples of when you had this realization this realization this realization that things were actually much more that things were actually much more that things were actually much more neutral than you were seeing? neutral than you were seeing? neutral than you were seeing? What was like a situation that you were What was like a situation that you were What was like a situation that you were able to reframe or what we what we say able to reframe or what we what we say able to reframe or what we what we say with our jargon cognitively reappraise? with our jargon cognitively reappraise? with our jargon cognitively reappraise? >> Yeah, I mean, you know, if we had 2 >> Yeah, I mean, you know, if we had 2 >> Yeah, I mean, you know, if we had 2 hours left, I could I could literally go hours left, I could I could literally go hours left, I could I could literally go through a whole series of them because through a whole series of them because through a whole series of them because that there were just so many and and that there were just so many and and that there were just so many and and what I realized at the start of this is what I realized at the start of this is what I realized at the start of this is that that that initially it can be difficult to do in initially it can be difficult to do in initially it can be difficult to do in the moment. So, often the moment. So, often the moment. So, often it would be in the evening where I'd it would be in the evening where I'd it would be in the evening where I'd reflect on my day and go the question I reflect on my day and go the question I reflect on my day and go the question I would ask myself actually was where would ask myself actually was where would ask myself actually was where today today today did you get triggered Rogan by the did you get triggered Rogan by the did you get triggered Rogan by the actions of someone else that were actions of someone else that were actions of someone else that were completely outside your control. That completely outside your control. That completely outside your control. That was one of the questions I would ask was one of the questions I would ask was one of the questions I would ask myself. myself. myself. >> Good. That's brilliant. Once you start >> Good. That's brilliant. Once you start >> Good. That's brilliant. Once you start asking yourself this question asking yourself this question asking yourself this question >> regularly, it is amazing how many things >> regularly, it is amazing how many things >> regularly, it is amazing how many things you start to find. You go, "Oh, well, you start to find. You go, "Oh, well, you start to find. You go, "Oh, well, that email bothered me." And or the that email bothered me." And or the that email bothered me." And or the person in the supermarket who did that person in the supermarket who did that person in the supermarket who did that start to bother me. And that driver, start to bother me. And that driver, start to bother me. And that driver, this is many years ago, right? And then this is many years ago, right? And then this is many years ago, right? And then you you go you you go you you go And what I would do is I would go, And what I would do is I would go, And what I would do is I would go, "Okay, "Okay, "Okay, what's a different story you could put what's a different story you could put what's a different story you could put on to the situation? Okay, the driver, on to the situation? Okay, the driver, on to the situation? Okay, the driver, what else might be going on with that what else might be going on with that what else might be going on with that driver? Were they were they trying to driver? Were they were they trying to driver? Were they were they trying to irritate you? Or maybe it was a busy irritate you? Or maybe it was a busy irritate you? Or maybe it was a busy parent who was up last night with their parent who was up last night with their parent who was up last night with their sick child. Maybe it's sick child. Maybe it's sick child. Maybe it's you know you know you know someone who's been late for work three someone who's been late for work three someone who's been late for work three times in the last 6 months. And if times in the last 6 months. And if times in the last 6 months. And if they're late again today, they're going they're late again today, they're going they're late again today, they're going to be fired. So, all they're trying to to be fired. So, all they're trying to to be fired. So, all they're trying to do is do is do is you know, keep their job which then pays you know, keep their job which then pays you know, keep their job which then pays for their bills and their house. So, for their bills and their house. So, for their bills and their house. So, there are a whole number of things. But there are a whole number of things. But there are a whole number of things. But what why that exercise was so powerful what why that exercise was so powerful what why that exercise was so powerful is because is because is because I learnt I learnt I learnt cognitively, but also viscerally, cognitively, but also viscerally, cognitively, but also viscerally, that there are multiple interpretations that there are multiple interpretations that there are multiple interpretations of every single situation. of every single situation. of every single situation. And I can train myself to choose a more And I can train myself to choose a more And I can train myself to choose a more empowering interpretation. empowering interpretation. empowering interpretation. And initially, you can't do it in the And initially, you can't do it in the And initially, you can't do it in the moment. You have to do it in a night. moment. You have to do it in a night. moment. You have to do it in a night. This is my experience. But over time, This is my experience. But over time, This is my experience. But over time, you realize, you realize, you realize, "Oh, wow, I'm doing it in the moment "Oh, wow, I'm doing it in the moment "Oh, wow, I'm doing it in the moment now." So, the driver who cuts me up now now." So, the driver who cuts me up now now." So, the driver who cuts me up now while I'm driving on the motorway, while I'm driving on the motorway, while I'm driving on the motorway, generally speaking, generally speaking, generally speaking, I just smile. I just smile. I just smile. And so, And so, And so, this goes to a question I had for you this goes to a question I had for you this goes to a question I had for you actually, which is actually, which is actually, which is this idea that our perception changes this idea that our perception changes this idea that our perception changes our physiology, right? Cuz I've heard our physiology, right? Cuz I've heard our physiology, right? Cuz I've heard you talk before Alyssa about this idea you talk before Alyssa about this idea you talk before Alyssa about this idea that in both situations, your cortisol that in both situations, your cortisol that in both situations, your cortisol might be going up. But, if you deem it might be going up. But, if you deem it might be going up. But, if you deem it as a threat to your survival, as a threat to your survival, as a threat to your survival, you're going to have your blood pressure you're going to have your blood pressure you're going to have your blood pressure go up from vasoconstriction, go up from vasoconstriction, go up from vasoconstriction, and the recovery period is going to be and the recovery period is going to be and the recovery period is going to be very slow from that. Whereas, if you very slow from that. Whereas, if you very slow from that. Whereas, if you interpret it more as an opportunity to interpret it more as an opportunity to interpret it more as an opportunity to learn something or a challenge that you learn something or a challenge that you learn something or a challenge that you can overcome, can overcome, can overcome, yes, your blood pressure goes up, but it yes, your blood pressure goes up, but it yes, your blood pressure goes up, but it goes up from more cardiac outputs, which goes up from more cardiac outputs, which goes up from more cardiac outputs, which is a much healthier way for your blood is a much healthier way for your blood is a much healthier way for your blood pressure to go up. There's more pressure to go up. There's more pressure to go up. There's more oxygenation to your brain, you're better oxygenation to your brain, you're better oxygenation to your brain, you're better at problem-solving, and you recover at problem-solving, and you recover at problem-solving, and you recover quicker. quicker. quicker. And I thought this is incredible, And I thought this is incredible, And I thought this is incredible, because the stressor is the same. because the stressor is the same. because the stressor is the same. >> Yes, exactly as you've described. It's >> Yes, exactly as you've described. It's >> Yes, exactly as you've described. It's really quite phenomenal. really quite phenomenal. really quite phenomenal. And And And the story we tell ourselves the story we tell ourselves the story we tell ourselves directly determines our physiological directly determines our physiological directly determines our physiological response. If we are response. If we are response. If we are telling ourselves that telling ourselves that telling ourselves that we've got this under control, this is we've got this under control, this is we've got this under control, this is something that we will survive something that we will survive something that we will survive regardless of how it turns out, regardless of how it turns out, regardless of how it turns out, that we have what it takes, that people that we have what it takes, that people that we have what it takes, that people have our back, we have the resources we have our back, we have the resources we have our back, we have the resources we need, any one of these need, any one of these need, any one of these positive or empowering statements positive or empowering statements positive or empowering statements will tilt us toward a positive challenge will tilt us toward a positive challenge will tilt us toward a positive challenge response. response. response. We will feel hopeful, excited, We will feel hopeful, excited, We will feel hopeful, excited, enthusiastic, enthusiastic, enthusiastic, empowered, empowered, empowered, and more confident. and more confident. and more confident. And that means that we are going to be And that means that we are going to be And that means that we are going to be having a more oxygenated response, high having a more oxygenated response, high having a more oxygenated response, high cardiac output, high oxygen to our cardiac output, high oxygen to our cardiac output, high oxygen to our brain, better problem-solving, more brain, better problem-solving, more brain, better problem-solving, more positive emotion. Wendy Mendes is the positive emotion. Wendy Mendes is the positive emotion. Wendy Mendes is the researcher who studied this the most in researcher who studied this the most in researcher who studied this the most in a granular way. a granular way. a granular way. If we are feeling If we are feeling If we are feeling these catastrophic thoughts these catastrophic thoughts these catastrophic thoughts that lead us to mount more of that that lead us to mount more of that that lead us to mount more of that survival response, survival response, survival response, we are having the opposite happen. And we are having the opposite happen. And we are having the opposite happen. And yes, our blood pressure is going up, but yes, our blood pressure is going up, but yes, our blood pressure is going up, but it's going up through the it's going up through the it's going up through the vasoconstriction. We're having less vasoconstriction. We're having less vasoconstriction. We're having less oxygenation. oxygenation. oxygenation. Our perception is literally changing. Our perception is literally changing. Our perception is literally changing. Our attention is narrowed Our attention is narrowed Our attention is narrowed toward threat. We're seeing threat more. toward threat. We're seeing threat more. toward threat. We're seeing threat more. And we're not able to And we're not able to And we're not able to problem-solve and bring the higher problem-solve and bring the higher problem-solve and bring the higher powers of our intellect powers of our intellect powers of our intellect to bear on the problem. to bear on the problem. to bear on the problem. And so, it changes how we think. It And so, it changes how we think. It And so, it changes how we think. It changes our hemodynamics. changes our hemodynamics. changes our hemodynamics. It changes our neuroendocrine response. It changes our neuroendocrine response. It changes our neuroendocrine response. The threat response is characterized by The threat response is characterized by The threat response is characterized by that quicker response that quicker response that quicker response that's energizing and the faster that's energizing and the faster that's energizing and the faster recovery. The threat response is recovery. The threat response is recovery. The threat response is characterized by characterized by characterized by a greater cortisol response, that a greater cortisol response, that a greater cortisol response, that sluggish recovery, and more sluggish recovery, and more sluggish recovery, and more inflammation. inflammation. inflammation. And so, think about that. Every day if And so, think about that. Every day if And so, think about that. Every day if we're triggering more of that threat we're triggering more of that threat we're triggering more of that threat response, that is going to turn into response, that is going to turn into response, that is going to turn into chronic stress and have more of a wear chronic stress and have more of a wear chronic stress and have more of a wear and tear response. and tear response. and tear response. It's often It's often It's often um um um helpful for people to think of the lion helpful for people to think of the lion helpful for people to think of the lion and the gazelle, right? This is the in and the gazelle, right? This is the in and the gazelle, right? This is the in nature stress response. The lion's nature stress response. The lion's nature stress response. The lion's chasing gazelle. Gazelle is having this chasing gazelle. Gazelle is having this chasing gazelle. Gazelle is having this full-on threat response, thinking, my full-on threat response, thinking, my full-on threat response, thinking, my life is in danger, life is in danger, life is in danger, and getting ready to be wounded and have and getting ready to be wounded and have and getting ready to be wounded and have that inflammatory and vasoconstriction that inflammatory and vasoconstriction that inflammatory and vasoconstriction response to help with that. That lion is response to help with that. That lion is response to help with that. That lion is having that thrilling challenge response having that thrilling challenge response having that thrilling challenge response of this is going to be dinner for a of this is going to be dinner for a of this is going to be dinner for a week. I'm going to, you know, get so week. I'm going to, you know, get so week. I'm going to, you know, get so much benefit for the whole pride for much benefit for the whole pride for much benefit for the whole pride for this. And so, all of these positive this. And so, all of these positive this. And so, all of these positive emotions and excitement as well. So, emotions and excitement as well. So, emotions and excitement as well. So, completely different responses. So, the completely different responses. So, the completely different responses. So, the way that we can control that is number way that we can control that is number way that we can control that is number one, those empowering thoughts as you one, those empowering thoughts as you one, those empowering thoughts as you said, bringing on said, bringing on said, bringing on the the the uh uh uh reminders of why we will survive and how reminders of why we will survive and how reminders of why we will survive and how we could do well. we could do well. we could do well. But, then also framing the body's But, then also framing the body's But, then also framing the body's response as another positive resource. response as another positive resource. response as another positive resource. My body is excited. My body is mounting My body is excited. My body is mounting My body is excited. My body is mounting the stress response to help me. My body the stress response to help me. My body the stress response to help me. My body knows exactly how to cope with this knows exactly how to cope with this knows exactly how to cope with this moment. That can reinforce that positive moment. That can reinforce that positive moment. That can reinforce that positive challenge response. challenge response. challenge response. >> So, can we say this? >> So, can we say this? >> So, can we say this? The body The body The body activates the stress response because activates the stress response because activates the stress response because there was a threat there, there was a threat there, there was a threat there, but through training, but through training, but through training, your perception of that stressor changes your perception of that stressor changes your perception of that stressor changes and therefore the physiology of how that and therefore the physiology of how that and therefore the physiology of how that stress response plays out also changes. stress response plays out also changes. stress response plays out also changes. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> I mean, that >> I mean, that >> I mean, that that is so so empowering because I know that is so so empowering because I know that is so so empowering because I know that this can be trained cuz I've done that this can be trained cuz I've done that this can be trained cuz I've done it myself. I've you know, I've helped it myself. I've you know, I've helped it myself. I've you know, I've helped people train this in them. I also people train this in them. I also people train this in them. I also acknowledge that yes, for some people acknowledge that yes, for some people acknowledge that yes, for some people that can be harder than others. If that can be harder than others. If that can be harder than others. If you've had childhood trauma or you've you've had childhood trauma or you've you've had childhood trauma or you've had real challenges in your life, of had real challenges in your life, of had real challenges in your life, of course it can be more difficult, but course it can be more difficult, but course it can be more difficult, but I don't know if you would agree with I don't know if you would agree with I don't know if you would agree with this Alyssa or not, but I would say in this Alyssa or not, but I would say in this Alyssa or not, but I would say in my experience, my experience, my experience, whatever your starting point is, whatever your starting point is, whatever your starting point is, it is a skill that you can get better it is a skill that you can get better it is a skill that you can get better at. So, you can you can learn how to at. So, you can you can learn how to at. So, you can you can learn how to change it from whatever your current change it from whatever your current change it from whatever your current baseline is. baseline is. baseline is. >> Right, right. Exactly. I I just love >> Right, right. Exactly. I I just love >> Right, right. Exactly. I I just love your example also of your example also of your example also of reappraising at night. reappraising at night. reappraising at night. And being able to then more likely to And being able to then more likely to And being able to then more likely to reappraise in the moment, but we try to reappraise in the moment, but we try to reappraise in the moment, but we try to load up and go into stressful situations load up and go into stressful situations load up and go into stressful situations with the resources and the empowering with the resources and the empowering with the resources and the empowering thoughts, but more often than not, our thoughts, but more often than not, our thoughts, but more often than not, our body's going to respond, especially if body's going to respond, especially if body's going to respond, especially if we've been we've been we've been exposed to a lot of trauma. exposed to a lot of trauma. exposed to a lot of trauma. And so, then we're going to be And so, then we're going to be And so, then we're going to be exquisitely sensitive to threat. So, exquisitely sensitive to threat. So, exquisitely sensitive to threat. So, it's not so much about controlling that it's not so much about controlling that it's not so much about controlling that immediate reaction. It's about what immediate reaction. It's about what immediate reaction. It's about what happens next. happens next. happens next. >> Yeah, I love that. >> Yeah, I love that. >> Yeah, I love that. >> When can we recover? >> When can we recover? >> When can we recover? When we change our story When we change our story When we change our story and when we focus on and when we focus on and when we focus on changing our attention, right? Focusing changing our attention, right? Focusing changing our attention, right? Focusing on releasing stress in the body, getting on releasing stress in the body, getting on releasing stress in the body, getting into sensory experiences, into sensory experiences, into sensory experiences, getting into nature, focusing on getting into nature, focusing on getting into nature, focusing on gratitude or joy, but this power of gratitude or joy, but this power of gratitude or joy, but this power of reappraisal that you've brought up, reappraisal that you've brought up, reappraisal that you've brought up, it's never too late it's never too late it's never too late to change our narrative, to look at to change our narrative, to look at to change our narrative, to look at things in a different way, to bring the things in a different way, to bring the things in a different way, to bring the light of curiosity light of curiosity light of curiosity to the situation. to the situation. to the situation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To >> To >> To look at look at look at what good could have come from this as what good could have come from this as what good could have come from this as well, what good can still come. So, all well, what good can still come. So, all well, what good can still come. So, all of those beautiful open thoughts of those beautiful open thoughts of those beautiful open thoughts that we can bring to a stressful that we can bring to a stressful that we can bring to a stressful situation situation situation can happen years later as well, right? can happen years later as well, right? can happen years later as well, right? Because we hold on to stories and we Because we hold on to stories and we Because we hold on to stories and we hold on to stress. So, this reappraisal, hold on to stress. So, this reappraisal, hold on to stress. So, this reappraisal, yes, try to do it before the stressor, yes, try to do it before the stressor, yes, try to do it before the stressor, definitely try to do it right after, but definitely try to do it right after, but definitely try to do it right after, but also be also be also be willing to look at the big stories that willing to look at the big stories that willing to look at the big stories that we carry around about we carry around about we carry around about those difficult life situations that we those difficult life situations that we those difficult life situations that we have that take up a lot of mental real have that take up a lot of mental real have that take up a lot of mental real estate and that cause us a lot of estate and that cause us a lot of estate and that cause us a lot of rumination and in a sense, extra stress. rumination and in a sense, extra stress. rumination and in a sense, extra stress. >> What an empowering message to leave >> What an empowering message to leave >> What an empowering message to leave people with at the end of this people with at the end of this people with at the end of this conversation. Elissa, I just want to conversation. Elissa, I just want to conversation. Elissa, I just want to acknowledge you for acknowledge you for acknowledge you for all the work and research you've carried all the work and research you've carried all the work and research you've carried out over the years. Your contribution to out over the years. Your contribution to out over the years. Your contribution to this field has been absolutely profound. this field has been absolutely profound. this field has been absolutely profound. Your books that I've come across, at Your books that I've come across, at Your books that I've come across, at least the Telomere Effect and The Stress least the Telomere Effect and The Stress least the Telomere Effect and The Stress Prescription are so wonderful and are so Prescription are so wonderful and are so Prescription are so wonderful and are so useful for people. useful for people. useful for people. So, I just want to express my gratitude So, I just want to express my gratitude So, I just want to express my gratitude to you for everything you've done over to you for everything you've done over to you for everything you've done over the years and for making time to come the years and for making time to come the years and for making time to come onto my podcast today. So, thank you. onto my podcast today. So, thank you. onto my podcast today. So, thank you. >> Thank you so much, Rangan. It's It's >> Thank you so much, Rangan. It's It's >> Thank you so much, Rangan. It's It's really such a pleasure and thank you for really such a pleasure and thank you for really such a pleasure and thank you for for helping so many people and let it for helping so many people and let it for helping so many people and let it bless your life and your day. bless your life and your day. bless your life and your day. >> If you enjoyed that conversation, then I >> If you enjoyed that conversation, then I >> If you enjoyed that conversation, then I think you will really going to enjoy think you will really going to enjoy think you will really going to enjoy this one. this one. this one. >> Even if we understand that a certain >> Even if we understand that a certain >> Even if we understand that a certain disease is is kind of like underpinned disease is is kind of like underpinned disease is is kind of like underpinned [music] [music] [music] by inflammation, we're still not by inflammation, we're still not by inflammation, we're still not necessarily taking that step back and necessarily taking that step back and necessarily taking that step back and saying, "What are the stress factors in saying, "What are the stress factors in saying, "What are the stress factors in your life?" 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