Change Your Brain and You Can Change Your Pain Feat. Dr. Daniel Amen

Key Takeaway

Your pain doesn't just live in your body—it lives in your brain. Dr. Daniel Amen reveals how childhood trauma, stress, and repressed emotions create a 'doom loop' that manifests as chronic physical pain. The breakthrough: By understanding the three brain pathways that process pain and implementing specific interventions like diaphragmatic breathing, emotional freedom journaling, and addressing repressed rage, you can interrupt this cycle and heal both emotional and physical suffering.

Episode Overview

Dr. Daniel Amen, brain health expert and author of 'Change Your Brain, Change Your Pain,' explains how pain is fundamentally a brain story rather than just a body signal. He discusses three critical pain pathways in the brain: the lateral pain feeling pathway (which identifies pain location), the medial pain suffering pathway (which intensifies pain with emotional distress), and the calming pathway (which can quiet pain when healthy). The episode explores how childhood trauma, stress, and repressed emotions create a 'doom loop' that perpetuates chronic pain, and provides specific interventions including diaphragmatic breathing, emotional freedom journaling, and addressing repressed rage to break this cycle.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Change Your Brain and You Can Change Your Pain Feat. Dr. Daniel Amen from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

pain, you know, if it's your back, your hip, your neck, ultimately comes to live in your brain. Yeah. I don't know. I I think I've lived with a lot of stress in my life, and it has, as I've aged, it's manifested itself physically. itself physically. itself physically. When you're depressed, it's overactive. If you're depressed, you're more likely to have physical pain. And so pain comes into our consciousness, into our awareness. I was drinking diet soda then like it was my best friend. Like Jack in the Box was across the street.

Now there's a new study on mice. They gave mice aspartame. So our habits are not about us. They're literally about generations. All right. Welcome back to the show everybody. So, I was just telling him I love him and I'm deeply grateful for him. So, I should probably say that live on the camera as we start the show today. You got to be great when you've been on the pod three or four times and I think this is his fourth time I think as a guest on the show and it's because you all love him and he makes a difference in the world.

He is one of the world's leading brain health experts. He's helped a lot of people with their brains, including me. And his clinic, the Amen clinic, done over almost a quarter of a million scans from people from 150 different countries. And every time he has a book out, I read the entire book, and it's always enlightening, always insightful. This one for me, the most of all of them. And I say that today because he's got this book out called Change Your Brain, Change Your Pain. You guys, we're going to take a deep dive into your noggin.

See if we can help you be happier and less stressed and for some of you not quite so depressed in your life and an explanation as to why you might be with my good friend, such a kind, good man. And he's the smartest dude in the room and he never makes you feel like he needs to be. Dr. Daniel Aean, welcome back to the show. Ed, so great to see you. Just makes my heart happy. heart happy. heart happy. It's actually my brain, but you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean. Well, like always with you, I don't like to waste moments because there's not very many people like you in the world. And so, let's let's start with some basic foundational stuff from this book. And I mean it. You know, I've read all your stuff. You've worked on my brain. I've been to the clinic. And I think this one hit me the most deeply because I think I suffer from a lot of the stuff in it. And uh it gave me some understanding of myself.

Some of it kind of overlaps with work I do as well. But let's start with some foundational stuff that I got out of the book in the beginning, which is you talked about the the pain that many of us feel and that it's not just a signal from our bodies, but it's actually a story your brain is telling. Is that that accurate description of what you're saying? That it's a story your brain is telling. What does that mean? Well, pain, you know, if it's your back, your hip, your neck, um sadness ultimately comes to live in your brain.

And if your brain isn't healthy, you're in a lot of pain. And the same circuits that um create emotional pain are also involved in physical pain. And so, um, getting your brain as healthy as it can be and not believing every stupid thing you think and not suppressing emotion is critical to both healing physical and emotional pain. You talk about these different pathways in the book like so it's not just a general concept you guys because Yeah. I don't know. I I think I've lived with a lot of stress in my life and it has as I've aged.

My audience knows this. It's manifested itself physically over time. Whether that be, you know, some heart issues that I've had, some uh back pain that I just now after reading this, I'm like, I think this is a result of this brain thing I got going on with my with these different pathways. What is the lateral pain feeling pathway? Well, it's uh a part of your brain called the phalamus uh which is deep in the brain. Sort of looks like a little egg and your parietal loes top back part of your brain your sensory brain and it's when you go ouch my back hurts and it tells you where it is.

And the phalamus, part of the deep limbic brain or emotional brain, when you're depressed, it's overactive. I just published this monster study with actually one of my haters. It's a really fun story. Uh he told 2020 I should be arrested 20 years ago and now we're publishing research together. So I love that so much. But what we showed is the phalamus and your emotional brain is overactive in depression. So if you're depressed, you're more likely to have physical pain. And one of the reasons I wrote the book was why does Sammy which is a supplement acidenicil methionine or the anti-depressant symbalta work for depression and pain like simalta is FDA approved for pain and Sammy has many studies showing it decreases pain from things like arthritis.

It's like why is that? is because they work on the same circuitry circuitry circuitry of the brain. And so pain comes into our consciousness into our awareness through the lateral pain feeling pathway. Lateral just means toward the side our parietal loes top back part of our brain toward the side. Um and if that gets activated it then triggers our medial pain suffering pathway. Now this is sort of more toward the middle anterior singular gyrus insular cortex uh basil ganglia when that is overactive now begins to smear the pain with dread with awfulness with angst with I I hate that.

And so the first thing that happens lateral pain feeling pathway activates the suffering pathway and then it um the third one is little brain here. It calms the front part of the brain. This is called the calming pathway. So the preffrontal cortex is in large part inhibitory. It sort of puts the brakes on what you say and what you do, right? It helps you with things like forethought and judgment, but it also settles down pain. And so if you've been hitting soccer balls with your head, if you played tackle, football, and damage this part of the brain, you're going to be in more pain because your brain can't turn it off.

off. off. Can I ask you something connected to that? And we'll keep by the way, the best thing about having Dr. Dr. Aman on the show, you guys, unlike most guests, he's willing to talk in specificity about what's in the book. A lot of guests don't because they're afraid, oh, then you won't go get the book. But just so you know, when a book is this big and this loaded, there's no way in an hour you're getting it all. So, you still need to go get the book.

More than anything you need to do is get this book. But let me ask you a question. This is an outside the It's not in it's not in my notes. It's just something I've wondered about based on these pathways and what we're going to talk about in a minute, which is this loop idea. loop idea. loop idea. Do you think, and I know this would be probably just speculating, but do you think that what goes on in your brain, this trauma, stress, toxins, this anxiety, the stuff you start to have, do you think that long term it can affect gene expression in your body?

Like, could it be that profound? Meaning if you're, you know, you're predisposed at some point to getting cancer that maybe you turn those genes on sooner in your life because of the stress and inflammation that causes in your body that potential potentially there's a correlation between those two things. Or am I reaching way out there on that one? No, you're absolutely correct. And ultimately, it's not just about you. It's about generations of you. it'll flip on or off certain genes that impact you but also your babies and your grandbabies.

grandbabies. grandbabies. Fascinating study. So I talk about aspartame in the book and when I was 35 I had arthritis and one of my patients said when she stopped aspartame her arthritis went away and I'm like and I think I've learned the most from my patients and I was drinking diet soda then like it was my best friend like Jack in the Box was across the street and I go get a 32 oz diet Pepsi and uh yeah I'm just feel so bad about this like you know I'm a doctor I have no clue about nutrition until I started looking at my brain and I stopped the aspartame and my pain went away and I'm like no and now there's a new study on mice they gave mice aspartame it's in 5,000 products uh they became really anxious and they gave them volume and it calmed calm them down.

Now, why they did that, I have no idea. But what they discovered, Ed, and this was the very disturbing thing, the babies of these mice who never had aspartame, their baseline was more anxious. Their grandbabies were more anxious. So, our habits habits habits are not about us. They're literally about generations about generations about generations of us. So the question you ask about epigenetics, epigenetics, epigenetics, you you you know if you don't sleep well at night, it turns off 700 healthpromoting genes. Um so our behavior every day is impacting us but also our children and grandchildren.

Are you still big on saffron for sleep? Huge. I'm big on saffron for so many things. There 28 randomized controlled trials showing it's equally effective to Prozac, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Effexer, Zoloft. I mean it's there's a brand new study on study on study on umund it combined 192 studies on 17,000 patients on which are the supplements that actually work for depression and saffron was the first uh most effective and then it said if you're on an anti-depressant or saffron and you add zinc and curcumin it significantly enhances the effect.

And so my company, Brain MD, has made Happy Saffron for six years, came out right before the pandemic, and I've taken it every day because not only does it help your mood, it the reason I fell in love with saffron, most anti-depressants decrease sexual interest and ability. It decreases your ability to have an orgasm. And I'd have patients come back, I'm happy, but I don't want to touch my wife. And I'm like, no, no, no. Saffron is pro-exual. is pro-exual. is pro-exual. It enhances that and it's pro-memory.

And there's studies showing it decreases pain. And I think what's happening is it's calming the medial pain suffering pathway. And I added zinc and curcumins to saffron for exactly that reason. Very interesting, isn't it you guys? So let's talk about this unhealthiness in the brain a little bit. What's contributing? So you said earlier, you listed some things. It could be injury. It could be toxins. Stress. Sleep is a biggie, right? But um what about this unresolved? Like in my case, I'm trying to figure it out.

Like I sleep pretty well. I But I did, you know, the story. I did have an alcoholic dad, drug addict dad when I was young. He ended up getting sober. I just feel deep inside me that some of that this is the wrong word. So I pleased everybody and I don't marked me, scarred my brain somehow and put me into changed changed your brain. It changed my brain and I I I measure my HRV now and it's just trash. It's like last night, doctor, my HRV was eight, right?

So, I'm in fight or flight a lot, right? Like I if you all know all these correlations and so I I I just wonder like you say in the book like your circuits can literally be hijacked and you talk about this I think you call it the pain HQ doom loop and I'm like that's familiar I think to me. Could you explain that to me and explain me to me a little bit even though we've done this in person? I think this is interesting for everybody's edification.

everybody's edification. everybody's edification. I published a monster study on 7,500 patients and their ACE score adverse childhood experiences. So on a scale of 0 to 10, how many bad things happened to you growing up? and uh physical, emotional, sexual trauma or abuse, being neglected, watching your mother be abused, having a parent with an addiction, incarceration, addiction, incarceration, addiction, incarceration, or a mental health problem. So, there's 10 of these things. Um, if you score four or more, you have an increased risk of seven of the top 10 leading causes of death.

If you score six or more, wow, wow, wow, you die 20 years early. But you don't have to. My wife's an eight. And she's not going to die early because she's had treatment for trauma. And like you, she takes really good care of herself. But what we found was childhood trauma. And I don't know if I told you this, my first wife grew up in a severely abusive alcoholic home. And when I married her, it's like 2 months later, she tried to kill herself. And she's the reason I'm a psychiatrist.

Uh, and I studied children and grandchildren of alcoholics. It activates your emotional brain. So that suffering pathway, pathway, pathway, it's probably more active than um is healthy for you. Today's episode's brought to you by Quo. It's spelled quo. It's a smarter way to run your business communications. This year, I'm all about I'm not missing any opportunities. Business is getting more and more competitive. And you know what? There's too many missed calls. And when you miss a call, that's money out the door. Quo helps you and your team share one business number, reply faster, and stay on top of every customer conversation so you never miss an opportunity to connect with your customers 24/7.

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quo.com/mylet. quo.com/mylet. That's qo.commylet quo. No missed calls, no missed customers. customers. customers. And so the doom loop is really the star of the book. It helped me so much get out of chronic pain. So it starts with pain for any reason. So pain HQ, that's the acronym. Pain for any reason. And it can be physical pain. U you broke your ankle. It can be emotional pain. you feel disrespected. Um can be relational pain. There's a breakup. That's one of the major causes of suicide. Uh or it can be spiritual pain.

You can have a moral injury. And many of us during the pandemic, we were morally injured uh by how the government handled the pandemic. Or if you think of a moral injury, I grew up Catholic and the whole priest pedophile scandal. The church lost billions of people who were injured by that particular scandal. So could be pain for any reason which is the lateral pain feeling pathway. It's like, okay, we hurt. And then that then activates the suffering pathway and that's already active in people who are depressed, in people who have childhood trauma.

Um, which then leads to an invasion, that's the eye, of ants, automatic negative thoughts. the thoughts that just come into your mind automatically and ruin your day. Um, and then that goes to N, which is nervous tension because whenever you have a negative thought, uh, your brain releases chemicals immediately and your muscles get tight and it happens immediately. But also in that N is repressed emotion and repressed rage which makes your muscle sort of chronically tense then that leads to age which is harmful habits uh a lot of people then whether it's alcohol or sugar or marijuana psilocybin psilocybin psilocybin um things that are really not good for your brain and I know your audience just went on tilt.

It's like, "Oh, I thought psilocybin was the new uh happy pill." It's like, "We'll talk about it." Um, and then you get to Q, which is the quagmire or quicksand of the doom loop, and it spirals. And the other star of the book is the healing loop. It's like, well, how do you get out of this doom loop? And it's relief. And it's you begin to recognize the pain. And I love this so much. Public knowledge. I've been working with Julius Randall, the NBA superstar, for the last year and a couple of months.

And it's he doesn't fail anymore. He wins or he learns. We're curious. We're never furious. And uh I I love that so much. It's you recognize and then you get curious about it. How did I sleep last night? What are my relationships? am I um blocking some of my emotions? Um it's we start getting really curious about the pain and then we go after calming the suffering pathway whether it's saffron, curcumins, omega-3 fatty acids, uh a technique I talk about in the book I like a lot called havening.

Uh and then we um let go of the negativity. Uh I there's a whole section on positivity bias training. Um the more negative you are, the less activity you have in your frontal loes. Uh negativity is bad for you. Now unbridled positivity is not the answer. You know, I can drive at 125 miles an hour down the freeway in the rain. And it's like, no, I want you to have enough anxiety. You do the right thing, but start every day with today is going to be a great day.

And end every day with what went well today. Force push noticing what's right way more than you notice what's wrong. But really, you know, one of the secrets in this book, and I learned it from John Sarno, who I'm a huge fan. He wrote a book called Healing Back Pain and The Mind Body Prescription. And he talked about how chronic pain is repressed rage. And I'm like, that's so interesting. But I didn't think he did a good job of teaching people, well, how do you get rid of the rage?

Because when I was in pain, I'm like, "Yeah, my brother beat me up every day when we were children and trying to change psychiatry. I've been brutalized." Like, you know, the guy that said told 2020 I should be arrested. There's I'm pissed off uh a lot. And it's like, but if you knew me, I'm sort of like Polyiana. It's like whatever happens to you, well, what is there good to be about? What happened to you? And so I realized that Polyiana had to meet Hannibal Lecter.

And uh and I I remember the epiphany um my wife uh who calls me Pauliana. And when I came that epiphany, I'm like she has to die. Now, not all the time, but but but and it's like, well, how do you get rid of the rage? And there's actually a psychotherapy psychotherapy psychotherapy that's a rage therapy. It's called ISTDP or intensive short-term dynamic psychotherapy. And when I first learned it, I'm like, "Oh, no, that's too harsh." And then I'm like, "Oh, no. You have to get in touch with the rage." So there's a whole section in the book on how do you get the rage out?

And so for your situation, what I would do, there's an exercise called emotional freedom journaling. And for each 5 years of your life, so get a journal and you know 0 to 5, 5 to 10, 10 to 15, draw a line down the page and for each five years on the left side, write down what awesome things happened during that period. So 0 to 5, I'm four years old. I'm standing at the stove. I'm with my grandfather who I'm named after, who I loved, who is my best friend growing up.

We're making fudge and that's on that zero to five page. But on the right side is being beaten up every day by my older brother. And I'm pissed off about that. And then do that for each 5-year period of your life. Well, pretty soon you have a good sense where the pain's coming from. And then write about it. You don't ever have to yell at someone or shoot anybody. Please don't. Um, but you want to be able to express it like if it could come out in your body.

Where would it go? And I don't know, have you ever had EMDR for the childhood trauma? You totally should. I love EMDR and do it a lot with my patients. But when we do the therapy, we'll often go, you know, so say I have a patient who was sexually abused, we'll often go back to that event, process it, and then it's like, if the rage could come out, where would it go? And there are a lot of people who die in my EMDR sessions because I I don't want people blocking the emotions.

Now, I always want you to be appropriate. I never want you to go to jail. But in your mind, you have to be able to express the rage. Otherwise, it'll come out in neck pain, back pain. And another very important thing in this book um is there are a number of studies that show I'm 71 people my age 80% of people my age with no pain have abnormal backs. backs. backs. 70% of people my age have abnormal necks who have no pain. They have abnormal necks.

And so every time, you know, I had hip pain, I had back pain, I had neck pain, I had shoulder pain, my MRIs are always abnormal, which activate the suffering pathway. And now it's like, oh, I have to have surgery. But I know what general anesthesia does to the brain. It's not good. It's actually one of the risk factors for dementia. And in the book, I have a dementia pre prevention program. Um, and so surgery is going to always be my last option. But because they see the abnormal MRI, oh, you have to have surgery.

And of course, they go to a surgeon who says, "Well, you have to have surgery because, you know, that's how they put their kids through school." And I I've not had surgery and my back pain's gone. Um, your body wants to heal. Your body was created or evolved to heal and you just have to put it in a healing environment. healing environment. healing environment. You know, I want everyone to know this too because he and I have worked together. I think things eb and flow in your life like just so you guys all know that so many of the things that Dr.

Aean and I have worked on and talked about have helped me. I think I've just caught myself during a interesting season again. And when I look at like you talk about both these things in the book, I'd like you to address them. But so I look at like in my case like wow I was really doing good for like two or three years. What happened recently that you know I think just my emotional mental well-being, my brain health as you've described it and have corrected me before.

It's not, you know, mental health, it's brain health literally. It's your brain. I think there's uh there's two things. One is a way out for me that you've taught me and another is the way in where I get into these loops. So will you talk about I have some triggers and one of the things in the book you talk about is identifying what are triggers for you that can put you in these loops and then way out for me and by the way you know he's already described many things but you teach this diaphragmic breathing that I do that's been like really a big deal to me.

think how simple but like when I'm in a certain pattern in a way of thinking I have a certain breathing pattern also which doesn't serve me and when I have changed my breathing something that simple I I can monitor my uh my HRV and it goes up like just by changing my breathing just by changing that part of me has changed my brain health my heart health and so would you talk about what a trigger is and then just something as simple as the breathing that you teach.

So, I would love for you to just write down your triggers. Uh because if you do EMDR, EMDR, EMDR, um um um that's what you go after and you go, so what's the origin of the trigger? So, you feel it, get your eyes going back and forth, and then you get on a train and it's like, when's the first time I felt that? and and then is there a time before? And it's so powerful to cleet your triggers because they're teaching you what you need to work on.

Um, diaphragmatic breathing is so powerful and when you have a negative thought or when you get triggered, your breathing becomes faster and more shallow. If you ever watch a baby breathe or a puppy breathe, they breathe almost exclusively with their belly. So the diaphragm is this huge bellshaped muscle between your chest cavity and your abdominal cavity. And if you watch a baby breathe or a puppy breathe, when they breathe in, they stick their belly out because what they're doing is they're flattening their diaphragm. their diaphragm.

their diaphragm. And what we talked about before, 4 seconds in, hold it for a second or two, 8 seconds out, and then hold it out for a second or two. And for anybody who has a panic disorder, it fixes it if you just do that 10 times. And I recommend people do it every day. So I wake up and I stretch and then I do diaphragmatic breathing. And if my HRV is 40, it'll often go to 80 right afterwards. So the more you do it, the higher your HRV, which is a sign of both heart and brain health.

Um, and so, um, I think the more you do that, that's good. I'm so glad it's helpful. And even when you're doing the breathing, think about the trigger and then even without EMDR, it's so it's the first time I felt like that. And then take your good parent self and often it's loving the child that was afraid or the child that was mad. And there's another thing in the book that I I love so much on the origin of pain and that is when we're born um we want to bond.

We have to bond because they feed us, they clothe us, they shelter us, they protect us. It's because of them we live. And um so we desperately want to bond and then say something bad happens. Your your dad's unpredictable or angry, um your parents get divorced, somebody dies in the family, there's an accident, one of your parents got fired, whatever it is, and then you feel um pain. And then you feel rage. Well, you really can't feel that. And so you block it and then you feel guilt about the rage.

You like you did something wrong and that becomes part of who you are, but it sets people up for pain. And often getting to the rage uh the origin of the rage uh is is so important. So guys, when you're starting something new, it seems like your to-do list just keeps growing every day. New tasks. What do I do next? I got to tell you something. When I started this podcast, which was like a million years ago, I was totally lost. I'm like, "How do I do my online stuff?

How do we book people?" Guess what I found out? Shopify. Basically, if you see me doing something online, it's probably involves Shopify. Shopify is the e-commerce platform behind millions of businesses. Check this out. 10% of all e-commerce in the US use Shopify. 10% of all commerce online. and they've helped me turn a lot of my different dreams into action and into reality. So whether you need a website, you need to write copy, you need help with marketing, you need checkout, you need to be able to get your money out of the system, all of it can be done with Shopify.

So turn those dreams into reality and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.comlet. So good, you guys. Isn't Isn't he amazing? You I've known him a long time. I I mean this at 71. I'm not just saying this because we're friends. You're just getting better. getting better. getting better. You're just getting better. You actually You really make me hopeful as I enter those years of my life that I can even be more effective and uh sharper and more contributo than I am now because I'm watching you do it.

This is a man who's changed you know millions of people's lives directly almost a quarter of a million scans you guys. There's something in the book that I don't think I understood that I want to ask you about which is so you have breathing guys you know me every time I have a m I'm like okay we understand the problems what are the solutions right like give me the stuff so the me the give me the stuff so the breathing has been transformative for me and everybody you know one thing he talks about in the book is having these habits too like anything in life like your diet you're working out you can get away from them and I think for me recently that's just what's happened I've just gotten away from the things that I know work and in reading the book which has a bunch of new stuff in minute.

I kind of I'm reconnecting especially talking to him live today. All right, I'm going to be All right, I'm going to be on the diaphragmic breathing every day after I stretch now. Like that's just done, right? That's done. But what is this progressive relaxation to me? Like in hearing it, I'm like this technique like I should be doing this just knowing how much I can feel the tension in my body that you and I that you've been describing. What is that? How's that work? So, it's a hypnotic technique that is so effective and um on my app, BrainFit Life, I actually have it and a number of other hypnotic scripts or audios I do for people.

It's basically close your eyes, roll your eyeballs up, and really stress them. Feel them up. And as you let them come back down, you just notice how relaxed your eye sockets feel. And then imagine that relaxation spreading like a warm penetrating oil to the muscles in your face, your head, your neck. And just imagine the relaxation spreading from the top of your head all the way down to the bottom of your feet. And it's about 10 15 minutes of just this beautiful uh guided imagery relaxation session.

And you know people have been psychiatrists have been doing it for a long time with patients. Well, not so much anymore because psychiatrists have become the prescriber. Uh which just pisses me off so much. Um but it's it's a beautiful technique that I describe in in the book and have resources for people. There's also um a rage hypnotic rage hypnotic rage hypnotic uh uh uh audio for people where they go to a clearing in a forest. So, put them in a trance. Uh, get them to open their subconscious mind to us.

And then in the clearing, and I wonder what pictures you would see, there's a big tree stump. And on the stump are pictures of all the things that have stressed you, that have pissed you off, that have made you sad, that have made you mad. And next to the stump is an axe where you cut them all up with great energy. Um, just to sort of recognize that all of us have these memories memories memories that become like zombies and they just like show up and they won't die.

And so learning how to get rid of them is really important. He said something in there. said uh you know get your mind directing your body and what occurs to me the more and more I'm familiar with his work and my own life it's like that's happening unconsciously unconsciously unconsciously anyway so the more we begin to consciously take control of our mind directing our body through our breathing um through some of these guided meditations or hypnosis um or just being aware of your triggers or knowing what these ants are and understanding them what for what they are when they show up now you're starting to take charge of your mind directing your body rather than that happening in some unconscious subconscious way all the time.

And that's really why the work is so great. So, I wanted to tell you about a year and a half ago, I think I went through about 6 months of the best mental health I've ever had. And ironically, it was through a very stressful time in business. Just some stuff with, you know, people taking advantage of me and some betrayals that took place in my life. And yet I'm weird in the sense that when things are pretty good, my mind finds reasons to worry and have anxiety.

But when actually really bad stuff happens, I'm actually typically a pretty calm guy. It's a really interesting way I go about my life. However, I went through some of the best, I just say, emotional and mental health of my life during this very difficult time. Ironically, I was going to do hyperbaric oxygen very regularly to recover from an injury that I had and I didn't think about it and then when I stopped I kind of went back to baseline and then I'm reading the book and that's one of the things you recommend for your mental or your brain health is hypobaric oxygen.

So, I got to let you talk about that for a second because I lived this just not knowing that was one of the benefits. Well, I'm a huge fan. published a study on soldiers who were involved in blast injuries significant improvement in blood flow and it decreases inflammation. So this active suffering pathway is often due to inflammation and so hyperaric oxygen lowers that and then it activates it activates it activates increases blood flow especially to the preffrontal cortex the calming pathway. So you can see just that by itself has benefit to 23 of the brain's pain pathways.

Um I I recommend it so often uh for people um especially if they have low blood flow on their scans which I did by the way. Okay, we're coming to the end here. Um and I got to ask you about this psilocybin thing and also I want to ask you about Ivagane. So you mentioned war fighters there a minute ago. I have had friends of mine who have had you know severe PTSD recently. Just just before we came on here live I was reading an article.

So, I want you to speak your mind about this and maybe there's a distinction between the two. So, So, So, um I'm just reading this morning Conor McGregor went to Mexico. Did you see this? Went to Mexico and says, "My life's changed. I saw and I'm not I'm I'm saying how he said it. I I don't have an opinion about this because I've never experienced it." But he basically said it changed his life. He did an Ibagane therapy. I've had a couple u Rob O'Neal who's been on my show who killed Osama bin Laden uh has said IBA gains made a big difference in his life and then I've had other people go do these trips where they do you know mushrooms they did psilocybin and they some have said I had a good trip and some have said oh man it got really dark and it wasn't good for them so are they different to you are they the same I know they're in different mechanisms but are both of them fall into the same category to you do you have an opinion about Well, they're they're different, but um but I'm very worried.

Uh and the reason I'm worried is I've seen this party before. Uh I mean, that's sort of the benefit or the curse of doing this as long as I had. In the 80s, benzo were mommy's little helper. And they were not supposed to be addictive. No one talked about them causing dementia. Um, but benzo are problematic. Uh, and then in the early 90s it was alcohols a health food and it's just a blatant lie. Uh, they increase the risk of eight different cancers and they cause more destruction, right?

You experience that as a child. Um and then um pain is the fifth vital sign you should be on opiates. Uh which no you shouldn't be because and I talk about it in the book that opiates off actually piss off your white blood cells and increase inflammation. So short-term benefit that create more pain. Um and then you know the recent one is marijuana is innocuous. It's legal in 40 states. Um, and it's created this nightmare in our society of people who are sad and anxious and suicidal and psychic.

So stay there. So there's there's benzo, alcohol, weed. Okay. You take a leap that that includes psilocybin, for example. That's example. That's example. That's So So here's here's the here's the psilocybin thing. Uh, for some people it's helpful it's helpful it's helpful just like for marijuana. For some people it's helpful. But the problem because everybody's all excited and nobody's talking about the fact that visits to emergency rooms for psilocybin psychosis has skyrocketed in the last 3 years. That teenagers That teenagers That teenagers are micro doing on a regular basis.

They're having mushroom parties. And what we're doing is we're taking something that under good supervision could be helpful and now everybody's doing it. And that is the prescription for huge trouble. I have somebody I care deeply about who started dating someone that said, "Let's do mushrooms together." And she became psychotic. And I I'm very worried that people aren't going caution, caution, caution. Maybe in in in supervised settings, but just like you said that um one person had a good trip, another person had a bad trip.

And how do you know? And we don't know. Um, and perhaps, you know, I should do imaging and go, okay, let's see if we can predict who gets benefit and who doesn't. Um, but I remember reading Will Smith's uh autobiography. Um, and I loved him. Uh, I I was a consultant on the movie Concussion, and I thought he should have got an Oscar nomination for that movie. Um but in at toward the end of the book he said he went to South America and did Iaska 14 times and then he just blew up his life on the Oscars hitting Chris Rock and I'm like well this didn't fix him and and so I I don't think there's enough and I don't know if we've talked but I've been working with the White House actually on creating a national brain health revolution.

Don't hate me. My god, I've gotten so much hate. Um, if Obama would have said, "Hey, Daniel, will you help?" I'm like, "Yes." And um, the White House faith office loves me and they are working with me to create a national brain health revolution. And there's a lot of pressure to like nationally legalize marijuana and get on board with the psilocybin train. And I'm like I'm just not a fan. Especially like Conor McGregor. Did he do EMDR? Did he do hyperaric oxygen? Has he done the work that doesn't have the risk of things like Ibeain?

I I have before and after I gain scans and I don't like them. I mean, I know why they work. They quiet the chatter in your head. Uh, but there are other ways to quiet the chatter. like give your mind a name so you can gain psychological distance from the noise. It's so helpful. Was that a full uh hour everybody? Are you happy that you spent the time with us here today? I got to tell you something. Um I think this is his best book and I've read most of them and so I don't say that just because we're friends.

By the way, it's certainly not a small book either. You won't you won't be done in five minutes. Change your brain. Change your pain. We've gone through a lot today to help you. Thank you for being so generous, by the way, with your information and your time when I interview you every single time. You don't hold anything back. And I love you and I'm grateful for you in my life. So, thank you for being here today, my brother. brother. brother. I love you back and thank you for helping me spread the word.

And the one question, always remember this question. It'll help you stay on track with your habits. This is the National Brain Health Revolution question. Is what I'm doing now good for my brain or bad for it? it? it? And if you can answer that with information and love, love of yourself, love of your family, love of the reason God put you on earth, you just make better choices. better choices. better choices. Really good. I will remember that. I think people are going to remember this. You guys, I don't there's sometimes I don't have to even ask you to share an interview.

I just know you're going to share this one. So, go ahead and do that. And uh by the way, if you're listening to this on the audio and you're not on the YouTube channel, go subscribe to YouTube. And if you're watching YouTube, go subscribe to an audio platform, whether that's Apple or Spotify or your audio platform of choice. Thank you, Dr. Aean. God bless you, everybody. Max out.