Champion of "Alone" on The Art of Survival — Jordan Jonas

And I came out and there was like the And I came out and there was like the day I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna render day I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna render day I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna render that fat." And I start looking around that fat." And I start looking around that fat." And I start looking around like, "What are these tracks?" And then like, "What are these tracks?" And then like, "What are these tracks?" And then you slowly start to have something dawn you slowly start to have something dawn you slowly start to have something dawn on you. Like those are Wolverine tracks. on you. Like those are Wolverine tracks. on you. Like those are Wolverine tracks. I mean, they're not huge, like 40 lbs or I mean, they're not huge, like 40 lbs or I mean, they're not huge, like 40 lbs or whatever, but they fight off wolf packs. whatever, but they fight off wolf packs. whatever, but they fight off wolf packs. They take down full grown moose. And I They take down full grown moose. And I They take down full grown moose. And I was my first time really dealing with was my first time really dealing with was my first time really dealing with one like that. And he kept surprising me one like that. And he kept surprising me one like that. And he kept surprising me with how bold he was, you know, kind of with how bold he was, you know, kind of with how bold he was, you know, kind of figure, okay, that'll take care of it. figure, okay, that'll take care of it. figure, okay, that'll take care of it. And then all of a sudden, whoa, right in And then all of a sudden, whoa, right in And then all of a sudden, whoa, right in front of me. You know, he run by and front of me. You know, he run by and front of me. You know, he run by and grab a chunk of meat and run off. No grab a chunk of meat and run off. No grab a chunk of meat and run off. No way. way. way. >> Jordan, great to see you, man. >> Jordan, great to see you, man. >> Jordan, great to see you, man. >> Good to see you, Tim. Good to see you. >> Good to see you, Tim. Good to see you. >> Good to see you, Tim. Good to see you. >> And we've we've upgraded our interaction >> And we've we've upgraded our interaction >> And we've we've upgraded our interaction to in person to in person to in person >> because for those who are listening, we >> because for those who are listening, we >> because for those who are listening, we had some audio glitches, some had some audio glitches, some had some audio glitches, some technological woes, and we just decided technological woes, and we just decided technological woes, and we just decided to do it in person. So, here we are. to do it in person. So, here we are. to do it in person. So, here we are. >> And I have twice the number of pooches, >> And I have twice the number of pooches, >> And I have twice the number of pooches, meaning two versus one since you last meaning two versus one since you last meaning two versus one since you last saw me. Got a got a stray adopted a few saw me. Got a got a stray adopted a few saw me. Got a got a stray adopted a few days ago. We're also drinking what days ago. We're also drinking what days ago. We're also drinking what people might think are ridiculously people might think are ridiculously people might think are ridiculously heavy pores of whiskey, but this is not heavy pores of whiskey, but this is not heavy pores of whiskey, but this is not whiskey. whiskey. whiskey. This is Lake Missoula Tea Company. Lake This is Lake Missoula Tea Company. Lake This is Lake Missoula Tea Company. Lake Missoula Breakfast. It is delicious. Missoula Breakfast. It is delicious. Missoula Breakfast. It is delicious. Just a bit of caffeine, a little bit of Just a bit of caffeine, a little bit of Just a bit of caffeine, a little bit of a topper, let's call it. a topper, let's call it. a topper, let's call it. >> Yeah, we just both arrived at some city >> Yeah, we just both arrived at some city >> Yeah, we just both arrived at some city we're not from. So, we're not from. So, we're not from. So, >> at high altitude, >> at high altitude, >> at high altitude, >> and uh we're just getting back into the >> and uh we're just getting back into the >> and uh we're just getting back into the groove of the conversation. So, we are groove of the conversation. So, we are groove of the conversation. So, we are going to get to Russia, but first I going to get to Russia, but first I going to get to Russia, but first I wanted you to and these tie together, I wanted you to and these tie together, I wanted you to and these tie together, I suppose, explain what we have here on suppose, explain what we have here on suppose, explain what we have here on the table besides the T because you made the table besides the T because you made the table besides the T because you made the joke, you know, if the interview is the joke, you know, if the interview is the joke, you know, if the interview is not going very well, might as well have not going very well, might as well have not going very well, might as well have this this this >> handle this way. >> handle this way. >> handle this way. >> Yeah, the handle is pointed towards you. >> Yeah, the handle is pointed towards you. >> Yeah, the handle is pointed towards you. What are we looking at? What are we looking at? What are we looking at? >> What we're looking at is an axe. It's >> What we're looking at is an axe. It's >> What we're looking at is an axe. It's one I've kind of designed one I've kind of designed one I've kind of designed specifically using the knowledge and specifically using the knowledge and specifically using the knowledge and experience I have had in Siberia in experience I have had in Siberia in experience I have had in Siberia in particular with the native folks and particular with the native folks and particular with the native folks and stuff. So, it's got some bit unique stuff. So, it's got some bit unique stuff. So, it's got some bit unique features, some that I've really grown to features, some that I've really grown to features, some that I've really grown to love. So, in the forest, first off, just love. So, in the forest, first off, just love. So, in the forest, first off, just to set the foundation, the one tool you to set the foundation, the one tool you to set the foundation, the one tool you need is an axe to give yourself a chance need is an axe to give yourself a chance need is an axe to give yourself a chance at survival cuz at survival cuz at survival cuz >> more than a knife. >> more than a knife. >> more than a knife. >> More than a knife. You can do all the >> More than a knife. You can do all the >> More than a knife. You can do all the things you can do with a knife. You things you can do with a knife. You things you can do with a knife. You know, you could get a fire, you could know, you could get a fire, you could know, you could get a fire, you could build some traps, you can get through build some traps, you can get through build some traps, you can get through the ice, you can, you know, it just kind the ice, you can, you know, it just kind the ice, you can, you know, it just kind of gives you the ability to do of gives you the ability to do of gives you the ability to do everything. Maybe not as well as you everything. Maybe not as well as you everything. Maybe not as well as you want, but as the natives would say, the want, but as the natives would say, the want, but as the natives would say, the one tool you need is an axe. And I one tool you need is an axe. And I one tool you need is an axe. And I concur. So, the problem though is that a concur. So, the problem though is that a concur. So, the problem though is that a lot of people in the States don't know lot of people in the States don't know lot of people in the States don't know what a good axe is. And so, you'll go what a good axe is. And so, you'll go what a good axe is. And so, you'll go buy one at Lowe's and go home. It just buy one at Lowe's and go home. It just buy one at Lowe's and go home. It just doesn't do the job you need. So, I doesn't do the job you need. So, I doesn't do the job you need. So, I designed one that has all the features I designed one that has all the features I designed one that has all the features I like. It's kind of a Siberian axe head like. It's kind of a Siberian axe head like. It's kind of a Siberian axe head shape with some of the Aeni shape with some of the Aeni shape with some of the Aeni modifications. modifications. modifications. >> Being the native are the native nomadic >> Being the native are the native nomadic >> Being the native are the native nomadic folks that I lived with, they live in folks that I lived with, they live in folks that I lived with, they live in the woods all the time, so they kind of the woods all the time, so they kind of the woods all the time, so they kind of know what they like. So, some of the know what they like. So, some of the know what they like. So, some of the features of this axe in particular, most features of this axe in particular, most features of this axe in particular, most most interestingly, is it's sharpened most interestingly, is it's sharpened most interestingly, is it's sharpened from one side. from one side. from one side. >> It's like a single bevel. It's a single >> It's like a single bevel. It's a single >> It's like a single bevel. It's a single bevel grind, which means you have to bevel grind, which means you have to bevel grind, which means you have to have a right or a left-handed axe based have a right or a left-handed axe based have a right or a left-handed axe based on what you are. But what that allows on what you are. But what that allows on what you are. But what that allows you to do is when you're in the woods, you to do is when you're in the woods, you to do is when you're in the woods, very often you'll be carving things, you very often you'll be carving things, you very often you'll be carving things, you know, whether you're building a sleigh know, whether you're building a sleigh know, whether you're building a sleigh or building a trap or building whatever or building a trap or building whatever or building a trap or building whatever it might be. And it really helps it work it might be. And it really helps it work it might be. And it really helps it work as a planer and really helps it do as a planer and really helps it do as a planer and really helps it do accurate work that way. It also on most accurate work that way. It also on most accurate work that way. It also on most trees that you chop down in the woods, trees that you chop down in the woods, trees that you chop down in the woods, they're quite narrow. You're rarely they're quite narrow. You're rarely they're quite narrow. You're rarely chopping down a giant, you know, cedar chopping down a giant, you know, cedar chopping down a giant, you know, cedar tree. You're you're going to be chopping tree. You're you're going to be chopping tree. You're you're going to be chopping down things about the size of your arm down things about the size of your arm down things about the size of your arm and a couple swings with this bevel and a couple swings with this bevel and a couple swings with this bevel design and you can slice right through design and you can slice right through design and you can slice right through them. So, it's a really efficient way of them. So, it's a really efficient way of them. So, it's a really efficient way of >> assuming it is matched to your dominant >> assuming it is matched to your dominant >> assuming it is matched to your dominant hand, right? So that so that it's hand, right? So that so that it's hand, right? So that so that it's sticking instead of deflecting. sticking instead of deflecting. sticking instead of deflecting. >> Exactly. Exactly. So, if you picture a >> Exactly. Exactly. So, if you picture a >> Exactly. Exactly. So, if you picture a bevel and hitting against a tree, if bevel and hitting against a tree, if bevel and hitting against a tree, if it's ground off on that side, there's a it's ground off on that side, there's a it's ground off on that side, there's a bit of a deflection. And by grinding it bit of a deflection. And by grinding it bit of a deflection. And by grinding it from the opposite side, when it hits from the opposite side, when it hits from the opposite side, when it hits that tree, it just bites right in. I that tree, it just bites right in. I that tree, it just bites right in. I guess you have some experience with guess you have some experience with guess you have some experience with deflection. deflection. deflection. >> Deflection. Yes, we do. And and yeah, >> Deflection. Yes, we do. And and yeah, >> Deflection. Yes, we do. And and yeah, just to finalize a few last points, just to finalize a few last points, just to finalize a few last points, you'll notice on a lot of American axes, you'll notice on a lot of American axes, you'll notice on a lot of American axes, they have a narrow eye. And that means they have a narrow eye. And that means they have a narrow eye. And that means >> And can you describe the eye? The eye is >> And can you describe the eye? The eye is >> And can you describe the eye? The eye is basically if you had the axe, what would basically if you had the axe, what would basically if you had the axe, what would you call it? Axe blade, right? There's you call it? Axe blade, right? There's you call it? Axe blade, right? There's the hole through which the handle would the hole through which the handle would the hole through which the handle would fit. Mhm. On a Siberian axe, it's quite fit. Mhm. On a Siberian axe, it's quite fit. Mhm. On a Siberian axe, it's quite wide, which allows you in the field to wide, which allows you in the field to wide, which allows you in the field to repair it with a with a solid, you know, repair it with a with a solid, you know, repair it with a with a solid, you know, piece of wood, and you can slide the piece of wood, and you can slide the piece of wood, and you can slide the handle through it like a tomahawk from handle through it like a tomahawk from handle through it like a tomahawk from the top. The handle goes all the way on. the top. The handle goes all the way on. the top. The handle goes all the way on. That way, when you swing, the pressure That way, when you swing, the pressure That way, when you swing, the pressure is always tightening the head. You don't is always tightening the head. You don't is always tightening the head. You don't need wedges and all that, which is a need wedges and all that, which is a need wedges and all that, which is a cool design. There's a bunch of other cool design. There's a bunch of other cool design. There's a bunch of other little nuances to the design. I don't little nuances to the design. I don't little nuances to the design. I don't want to bore you too long, but Tim want to bore you too long, but Tim want to bore you too long, but Tim knows. He's been up in the woods with knows. He's been up in the woods with knows. He's been up in the woods with me, and we got to use it a bunch. I got me, and we got to use it a bunch. I got me, and we got to use it a bunch. I got to show them how to use. to show them how to use. to show them how to use. >> It's incredible how versatile an axe is. >> It's incredible how versatile an axe is. >> It's incredible how versatile an axe is. I mean, the number of ways that you used I mean, the number of ways that you used I mean, the number of ways that you used it. Also, just side note, I never really it. Also, just side note, I never really it. Also, just side note, I never really thought about this, but for people who thought about this, but for people who thought about this, but for people who are wondering about this bevel are wondering about this bevel are wondering about this bevel >> description that I gave, you could think >> description that I gave, you could think >> description that I gave, you could think of, there are certain chef's knives, of, there are certain chef's knives, of, there are certain chef's knives, especially western chef's knives, that especially western chef's knives, that especially western chef's knives, that are double beveled. They're they're are double beveled. They're they're are double beveled. They're they're sharpened from both sides in. So, if you sharpened from both sides in. So, if you sharpened from both sides in. So, if you buy a a cheap knife sharpener, buy a a cheap knife sharpener, buy a a cheap knife sharpener, >> they're it generally looks like a V, >> they're it generally looks like a V, >> they're it generally looks like a V, >> right? You're sharpening it from both >> right? You're sharpening it from both >> right? You're sharpening it from both sides. But if you look at a lot of sides. But if you look at a lot of sides. But if you look at a lot of Japanese chef's knives, single bevel, Japanese chef's knives, single bevel, Japanese chef's knives, single bevel, given the way they use it in cutting given the way they use it in cutting given the way they use it in cutting fish kind of horizontally. fish kind of horizontally. fish kind of horizontally. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I recall seeing you when we first >> And I recall seeing you when we first >> And I recall seeing you when we first went out our first day in the wilderness went out our first day in the wilderness went out our first day in the wilderness in Montana in Montana in Montana >> and >> and >> and just a quick sidebar, one of my friends just a quick sidebar, one of my friends just a quick sidebar, one of my friends because the forecast looked fantastic. because the forecast looked fantastic. because the forecast looked fantastic. It was a bluebird day. Oh yeah. and he's It was a bluebird day. Oh yeah. and he's It was a bluebird day. Oh yeah. and he's like it was his first time going out on like it was his first time going out on like it was his first time going out on a real camping trip and he's like I a real camping trip and he's like I a real camping trip and he's like I think I might just leave the rain gear think I might just leave the rain gear think I might just leave the rain gear at the at the rental spot and I was like at the at the rental spot and I was like at the at the rental spot and I was like that is the last thing you would just that is the last thing you would just that is the last thing you would just put at the bottom you know like stick it put at the bottom you know like stick it put at the bottom you know like stick it somewhere and then it was torrential somewhere and then it was torrential somewhere and then it was torrential downpour downpour downpour >> for a legit downpour >> for a legit downpour >> for a legit downpour >> we got hammered and even though it >> we got hammered and even though it >> we got hammered and even though it wasn't particularly cold you end up wasn't particularly cold you end up wasn't particularly cold you end up feeling cold very very quickly feeling cold very very quickly feeling cold very very quickly >> and when we arrived at I suppose the >> and when we arrived at I suppose the >> and when we arrived at I suppose the first camp which maybe was sort of a first camp which maybe was sort of a first camp which maybe was sort of a premature stop because of the cold and premature stop because of the cold and premature stop because of the cold and the rain. the rain. the rain. >> Yeah, it was pretty chilly. >> Yeah, it was pretty chilly. >> Yeah, it was pretty chilly. >> And it was incredible how quickly number >> And it was incredible how quickly number >> And it was incredible how quickly number one, my friend Mike and I both were one, my friend Mike and I both were one, my friend Mike and I both were having trouble zippering our jackets having trouble zippering our jackets having trouble zippering our jackets even though it was not even winter. even though it was not even winter. even though it was not even winter. >> Mhm. And then watching you use the axe >> Mhm. And then watching you use the axe >> Mhm. And then watching you use the axe to maybe you could describe this, but to maybe you could describe this, but to maybe you could describe this, but when you take a larger stick, people when you take a larger stick, people when you take a larger stick, people think of fire building and they think of think of fire building and they think of think of fire building and they think of perhaps having like the fatwood and then perhaps having like the fatwood and then perhaps having like the fatwood and then you have some type of cotton ball or you have some type of cotton ball or you have some type of cotton ball or tinder, right? But when you're out in tinder, right? But when you're out in tinder, right? But when you're out in the woods, you don't necessarily sure the woods, you don't necessarily sure the woods, you don't necessarily sure you could pack these things. But if you could pack these things. But if you could pack these things. But if you're improvising, what blew me away you're improvising, what blew me away you're improvising, what blew me away was how you use the axe to create was how you use the axe to create was how you use the axe to create feathers. feathers. feathers. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Can you explain what that is? >> Can you explain what that is? >> Can you explain what that is? >> You want a really sharp axe once you get >> You want a really sharp axe once you get >> You want a really sharp axe once you get control of it. You know, they're control of it. You know, they're control of it. You know, they're dangerous. We'll go to the deflection dangerous. We'll go to the deflection dangerous. We'll go to the deflection stories and but once you're a master of stories and but once you're a master of stories and but once you're a master of the axe, you can go when a downpour, the axe, you can go when a downpour, the axe, you can go when a downpour, torrential downpour, chop down a dead torrential downpour, chop down a dead torrential downpour, chop down a dead standing tree because it, you know, you standing tree because it, you know, you standing tree because it, you know, you might see dead trees on the ground, but might see dead trees on the ground, but might see dead trees on the ground, but it's amazing, particularly in the spring it's amazing, particularly in the spring it's amazing, particularly in the spring when they've spent a whole winter when they've spent a whole winter when they've spent a whole winter absorbing moisture. It's amazing how wet absorbing moisture. It's amazing how wet absorbing moisture. It's amazing how wet they will be. And so dead standing, find they will be. And so dead standing, find they will be. And so dead standing, find something, chop it down, and then split something, chop it down, and then split something, chop it down, and then split it. Chop a smaller piece out of the it. Chop a smaller piece out of the it. Chop a smaller piece out of the middle, and then split that open. And middle, and then split that open. And middle, and then split that open. And once you got it split open, you're to once you got it split open, you're to once you got it split open, you're to that dry wood, and it never gets wet that dry wood, and it never gets wet that dry wood, and it never gets wet because it was standing. And so you then because it was standing. And so you then because it was standing. And so you then split that piece open a couple times. split that piece open a couple times. split that piece open a couple times. You get a nice edge on it. And then with You get a nice edge on it. And then with You get a nice edge on it. And then with the axe, you can you can just run your the axe, you can you can just run your the axe, you can you can just run your axe down that wood with the right amount axe down that wood with the right amount axe down that wood with the right amount of control and practice and make some of control and practice and make some of control and practice and make some really fine curls that'll catch a spark. really fine curls that'll catch a spark. really fine curls that'll catch a spark. So, you don't even need a lighter or you So, you don't even need a lighter or you So, you don't even need a lighter or you don't need anything like that. don't need anything like that. don't need anything like that. >> And what was also counterintuitive to me >> And what was also counterintuitive to me >> And what was also counterintuitive to me is you don't even have to take those off is you don't even have to take those off is you don't even have to take those off of of of >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> the split piece of this internal wood. >> the split piece of this internal wood. >> the split piece of this internal wood. >> Easier if you don't. It's easier if you >> Easier if you don't. It's easier if you >> Easier if you don't. It's easier if you leave a big bundle of this curl. leave a big bundle of this curl. leave a big bundle of this curl. >> So, imagine imagine guys if you would >> So, imagine imagine guys if you would >> So, imagine imagine guys if you would you have let's just for simplicity sake, you have let's just for simplicity sake, you have let's just for simplicity sake, right? Say that you have a fully intact right? Say that you have a fully intact right? Say that you have a fully intact log of wood that's about the thickness log of wood that's about the thickness log of wood that's about the thickness of your arm. you then, and there are of your arm. you then, and there are of your arm. you then, and there are very particular ways to do this safely, very particular ways to do this safely, very particular ways to do this safely, right? Like like leaning it against a right? Like like leaning it against a right? Like like leaning it against a larger larger larger >> fallen tree. >> fallen tree. >> fallen tree. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> there's a lot of nuance. >> there's a lot of nuance. >> there's a lot of nuance. >> There's a lot of nuance, but you split >> There's a lot of nuance, but you split >> There's a lot of nuance, but you split that in half. So now you have, if you're that in half. So now you have, if you're that in half. So now you have, if you're looking kind of down the barrel of each looking kind of down the barrel of each looking kind of down the barrel of each of these split pieces, they're they're of these split pieces, they're they're of these split pieces, they're they're half circles, half circles, half circles, >> right? And then you break those into >> right? And then you break those into >> right? And then you break those into >> you chop those into even >> you chop those into even >> you chop those into even >> quarters. >> quarters. >> quarters. >> Quarters, let's say. Then you stand one >> Quarters, let's say. Then you stand one >> Quarters, let's say. Then you stand one up and you're using the axe, which takes up and you're using the axe, which takes up and you're using the axe, which takes a lot of fine motor control to kind of a lot of fine motor control to kind of a lot of fine motor control to kind of shave down these thin pieces of wood shave down these thin pieces of wood shave down these thin pieces of wood that then curl as you're pushing it that then curl as you're pushing it that then curl as you're pushing it down. And then you go a little bit down. And then you go a little bit down. And then you go a little bit higher. You do the same thing. You do it higher. You do the same thing. You do it higher. You do the same thing. You do it again. You do it again. You end up with again. You do it again. You end up with again. You do it again. You end up with all of these. It's almost looks like a all of these. It's almost looks like a all of these. It's almost looks like a fiddle head fern or something where fiddle head fern or something where fiddle head fern or something where they're all rolled together. they're all rolled together. they're all rolled together. >> In fire making too, in survival in the >> In fire making too, in survival in the >> In fire making too, in survival in the woods, it's great to have a lighter. woods, it's great to have a lighter. woods, it's great to have a lighter. It's great to have matches. They all It's great to have matches. They all It's great to have matches. They all make it so much easier to start a fire, make it so much easier to start a fire, make it so much easier to start a fire, but they'll occasionally fail you and but they'll occasionally fail you and but they'll occasionally fail you and they'll fail you when you need them the they'll fail you when you need them the they'll fail you when you need them the most. And so I always carry also just a most. And so I always carry also just a most. And so I always carry also just a ferro rod, which is very, you know, it ferro rod, which is very, you know, it ferro rod, which is very, you know, it just makes sparks. Basically, you scrape just makes sparks. Basically, you scrape just makes sparks. Basically, you scrape it and it makes sparks. But with that, it and it makes sparks. But with that, it and it makes sparks. But with that, you need fine paper thin material to you need fine paper thin material to you need fine paper thin material to catch the sparks and light it up. And catch the sparks and light it up. And catch the sparks and light it up. And that's what you're making with the axe that's what you're making with the axe that's what you're making with the axe curls. And so we were in a big downpour, curls. And so we were in a big downpour, curls. And so we were in a big downpour, you know, and and even that can be you know, and and even that can be you know, and and even that can be difficult because when it's really difficult because when it's really difficult because when it's really raining, you know, you got to be really raining, you know, you got to be really raining, you know, you got to be really careful that you made all these curls careful that you made all these curls careful that you made all these curls that they don't get soaked before you that they don't get soaked before you that they don't get soaked before you get the spark on them. So we made a get the spark on them. So we made a get the spark on them. So we made a quick tripod, draped a tarp over it, and quick tripod, draped a tarp over it, and quick tripod, draped a tarp over it, and tucked under that to actually build our tucked under that to actually build our tucked under that to actually build our fire. Made a few sparks and got that fire. Made a few sparks and got that fire. Made a few sparks and got that burning. You can then make some not so burning. You can then make some not so burning. You can then make some not so fine curls, make some really quick rough fine curls, make some really quick rough fine curls, make some really quick rough ones and throw that on top. it catches ones and throw that on top. it catches ones and throw that on top. it catches and pretty soon you have a fire which is and pretty soon you have a fire which is and pretty soon you have a fire which is amazing how lifegiving it is in those amazing how lifegiving it is in those amazing how lifegiving it is in those situations. Everybody's depressed and situations. Everybody's depressed and situations. Everybody's depressed and wet wet wet >> particular like soaking wet hands aren't >> particular like soaking wet hands aren't >> particular like soaking wet hands aren't really functioning and then the fire really functioning and then the fire really functioning and then the fire once you get a critical mass and you're once you get a critical mass and you're once you get a critical mass and you're able to warm your hands able to warm your hands able to warm your hands >> you know my buddy Mike I remember he >> you know my buddy Mike I remember he >> you know my buddy Mike I remember he said he's like yeah no wonder we said he's like yeah no wonder we said he's like yeah no wonder we worshiped fire for so long obvious worshiped fire for so long obvious worshiped fire for so long obvious >> all right so >> all right so >> all right so >> so this this axe and I'm thrilled to >> so this this axe and I'm thrilled to >> so this this axe and I'm thrilled to have one of these and we'll put up an have one of these and we'll put up an have one of these and we'll put up an additional shorter video on my YouTube additional shorter video on my YouTube additional shorter video on my YouTube channel which is just Tim Ferris. What channel which is just Tim Ferris. What channel which is just Tim Ferris. What is your YouTube channel? is your YouTube channel? is your YouTube channel? >> Hobo Jordo actually >> Hobo Jordo actually >> Hobo Jordo actually >> and we will explain why. >> and we will explain why. >> and we will explain why. >> I have a Instagram at that too which >> I have a Instagram at that too which >> I have a Instagram at that too which I'll put videos up on. I'll put videos up on. I'll put videos up on. >> Yeah. So we'll put up some videos of the >> Yeah. So we'll put up some videos of the >> Yeah. So we'll put up some videos of the axe and maybe have you demo some of the axe and maybe have you demo some of the axe and maybe have you demo some of the more more more >> non-obvious ways of using it. Before we >> non-obvious ways of using it. Before we >> non-obvious ways of using it. Before we get to the rewind and looking at how on get to the rewind and looking at how on get to the rewind and looking at how on earth you ended up in Russia, earth you ended up in Russia, earth you ended up in Russia, >> let's let's not let go of the loose end >> let's let's not let go of the loose end >> let's let's not let go of the loose end of the deflection story. of the deflection story. of the deflection story. >> Yeah. So, so what does it look like if >> Yeah. So, so what does it look like if >> Yeah. So, so what does it look like if you get overenthusiastic and you don't you get overenthusiastic and you don't you get overenthusiastic and you don't quite have the control yet? quite have the control yet? quite have the control yet? >> An axe has a learning curve, especially >> An axe has a learning curve, especially >> An axe has a learning curve, especially when you have a really well-made axe and when you have a really well-made axe and when you have a really well-made axe and you're swinging it hard to get the jobs you're swinging it hard to get the jobs you're swinging it hard to get the jobs you need done. you need done. you need done. When I did go to Russia, I was a little When I did go to Russia, I was a little When I did go to Russia, I was a little in over my head. Like, I had grown up on in over my head. Like, I had grown up on in over my head. Like, I had grown up on a farm and used an axe more than a farm and used an axe more than a farm and used an axe more than probably your typical American, but not probably your typical American, but not probably your typical American, but not like they do over there by any means. like they do over there by any means. like they do over there by any means. And so, And so, And so, >> I mean, these axes are as sharp. They're >> I mean, these axes are as sharp. They're >> I mean, these axes are as sharp. They're sharper than most kitchen knives you sharper than most kitchen knives you sharper than most kitchen knives you would find in an Airbnb. I mean, like would find in an Airbnb. I mean, like would find in an Airbnb. I mean, like they are very, very sharp. they are very, very sharp. they are very, very sharp. >> Yep. And so, >> Yep. And so, >> Yep. And so, they just use them way more than I they just use them way more than I they just use them way more than I would. And I was trying to keep up, you would. And I was trying to keep up, you would. And I was trying to keep up, you know, I'm trying to be productive and in know, I'm trying to be productive and in know, I'm trying to be productive and in doing so, I was in a hurry. So, this is doing so, I was in a hurry. So, this is doing so, I was in a hurry. So, this is going to take a slight bit of a going to take a slight bit of a going to take a slight bit of a backstory, but the natives over there backstory, but the natives over there backstory, but the natives over there will build these huge, you know, 30 will build these huge, you know, 30 will build these huge, you know, 30 kilometer circumference fences out of kilometer circumference fences out of kilometer circumference fences out of only logs interlocking. They have no only logs interlocking. They have no only logs interlocking. They have no nails, nothing up there because there nails, nothing up there because there nails, nothing up there because there are none around. And so there's a are none around. And so there's a are none around. And so there's a specific technique to doing that. Partly specific technique to doing that. Partly specific technique to doing that. Partly that involves chopping a tree down and that involves chopping a tree down and that involves chopping a tree down and then you step your foot on it and then then you step your foot on it and then then you step your foot on it and then you split that tree on that cut end, you you split that tree on that cut end, you you split that tree on that cut end, you know? So you're taking a big swing and know? So you're taking a big swing and know? So you're taking a big swing and swinging right where your foot sort of swinging right where your foot sort of swinging right where your foot sort of is. And that tree is not flat like it is. And that tree is not flat like it is. And that tree is not flat like it was cut with a saw. It's got an angle was cut with a saw. It's got an angle was cut with a saw. It's got an angle like it was cut with a axe. And so like it was cut with a axe. And so like it was cut with a axe. And so there's a real deflection possibility there's a real deflection possibility there's a real deflection possibility there if you don't have all the if you there if you don't have all the if you there if you don't have all the if you don't have it down. And so I'm trying to don't have it down. And so I'm trying to don't have it down. And so I'm trying to keep a smack hitting my boot. And you keep a smack hitting my boot. And you keep a smack hitting my boot. And you know, we're in the middle of Siberia. I know, we're in the middle of Siberia. I know, we're in the middle of Siberia. I can't get another rubber boot. We're can't get another rubber boot. We're can't get another rubber boot. We're working in swamps. It was very working in swamps. It was very working in swamps. It was very disappointing. Went home, had a cut on disappointing. Went home, had a cut on disappointing. Went home, had a cut on my foot, you know, back to home, which my foot, you know, back to home, which my foot, you know, back to home, which is a teepee. We had a cut on my foot. is a teepee. We had a cut on my foot. is a teepee. We had a cut on my foot. Kind of bandaged it up and tried to Kind of bandaged it up and tried to Kind of bandaged it up and tried to patch my boot as best I could. Go back patch my boot as best I could. Go back patch my boot as best I could. Go back out. Next day, same thing. And and make out. Next day, same thing. And and make out. Next day, same thing. And and make a long story short, I chopped the heck a long story short, I chopped the heck a long story short, I chopped the heck out of my boots. And finally, one of the out of my boots. And finally, one of the out of my boots. And finally, one of the native guys was like, "Hey, you know native guys was like, "Hey, you know native guys was like, "Hey, you know what, Jordan? I think you know, five what, Jordan? I think you know, five what, Jordan? I think you know, five years ago, I left a boot upside down on years ago, I left a boot upside down on years ago, I left a boot upside down on a stump." like, you know, five miles a stump." like, you know, five miles a stump." like, you know, five miles that way. And so we spent a whole day. that way. And so we spent a whole day. that way. And so we spent a whole day. We got our reindeer, packed them up, We got our reindeer, packed them up, We got our reindeer, packed them up, rode these reindeer up and over the rode these reindeer up and over the rode these reindeer up and over the mountain. Sure enough, there's a stump mountain. Sure enough, there's a stump mountain. Sure enough, there's a stump with a boot upside down and these are with a boot upside down and these are with a boot upside down and these are natural rubber boots. And so I could natural rubber boots. And so I could natural rubber boots. And so I could like, it was smaller than my foot, but I like, it was smaller than my foot, but I like, it was smaller than my foot, but I could squeeze my foot in there. And I could squeeze my foot in there. And I could squeeze my foot in there. And I was like, great, this is awesome. Back was like, great, this is awesome. Back was like, great, this is awesome. Back at it in another day or two and swing. I at it in another day or two and swing. I at it in another day or two and swing. I chopped it. And I was so frustrated. I chopped it. And I was so frustrated. I chopped it. And I was so frustrated. I mean, I it was annoying that I cut my mean, I it was annoying that I cut my mean, I it was annoying that I cut my boot open. I got mad and I swung with boot open. I got mad and I swung with boot open. I got mad and I swung with one hand at the tree and then here comes one hand at the tree and then here comes one hand at the tree and then here comes defle, you know, deflects off and rips defle, you know, deflects off and rips defle, you know, deflects off and rips right into my knee and I hammered my right into my knee and I hammered my right into my knee and I hammered my knee. I in the long run I went and got knee. I in the long run I went and got knee. I in the long run I went and got it checked out many months later, but it it checked out many months later, but it it checked out many months later, but it was, you know, I mostly severed the MCL, was, you know, I mostly severed the MCL, was, you know, I mostly severed the MCL, split the bone. It was a quite a gnarly split the bone. It was a quite a gnarly split the bone. It was a quite a gnarly injury and I I was stuck out there. I injury and I I was stuck out there. I injury and I I was stuck out there. I had to crawl back to the teepee. I knew had to crawl back to the teepee. I knew had to crawl back to the teepee. I knew I was kind of in shock, so I was like, I I was kind of in shock, so I was like, I I was kind of in shock, so I was like, I got to get back to the tepee before I got to get back to the tepee before I got to get back to the tepee before I feel this, which was a couple kilometers feel this, which was a couple kilometers feel this, which was a couple kilometers away. So, I kind of just bailed out, away. So, I kind of just bailed out, away. So, I kind of just bailed out, told everybody like, "Hey, I'm going told everybody like, "Hey, I'm going told everybody like, "Hey, I'm going back to teepee." back to teepee." back to teepee." And then I got there and man, it was a And then I got there and man, it was a And then I got there and man, it was a lot of pain. I I had had surgery on my lot of pain. I I had had surgery on my lot of pain. I I had had surgery on my other knee not long before. So, that was other knee not long before. So, that was other knee not long before. So, that was my good leg I chopped. And then and I my good leg I chopped. And then and I my good leg I chopped. And then and I was stuck in that teepee for several was stuck in that teepee for several was stuck in that teepee for several days. I couldn't even move. I had to days. I couldn't even move. I had to days. I couldn't even move. I had to like even to poop. I had a plastic bag. like even to poop. I had a plastic bag. like even to poop. I had a plastic bag. I had to like go in that and then roll I had to like go in that and then roll I had to like go in that and then roll to the edge of the teepee and stuff it to the edge of the teepee and stuff it to the edge of the teepee and stuff it out. I couldn't even stand on either out. I couldn't even stand on either out. I couldn't even stand on either leg. It was pretty miserable. And they leg. It was pretty miserable. And they leg. It was pretty miserable. And they were out building that fence. So, it was were out building that fence. So, it was were out building that fence. So, it was a few days later they they finally came a few days later they they finally came a few days later they they finally came back and and I was still recovering on back and and I was still recovering on back and and I was still recovering on TV floor. TV floor. TV floor. >> What did you do or what did they do in >> What did you do or what did they do in >> What did you do or what did they do in terms of quote unquote first aid? terms of quote unquote first aid? terms of quote unquote first aid? They're like, "Here's a here's a pus They're like, "Here's a here's a pus They're like, "Here's a here's a pus made of god knows what. Slap it on, walk made of god knows what. Slap it on, walk made of god knows what. Slap it on, walk it off, you'll be fine." it off, you'll be fine." it off, you'll be fine." >> Which is mostly what it was. It was a >> Which is mostly what it was. It was a >> Which is mostly what it was. It was a very simple. We went over to a spruce very simple. We went over to a spruce very simple. We went over to a spruce tree that was bleeding a bunch of sap tree that was bleeding a bunch of sap tree that was bleeding a bunch of sap out, you know, and went over there and out, you know, and went over there and out, you know, and went over there and scraped a bunch of that sap off with the scraped a bunch of that sap off with the scraped a bunch of that sap off with the axe and then just put that on my wound. axe and then just put that on my wound. axe and then just put that on my wound. This is right at the start right when I This is right at the start right when I This is right at the start right when I got it. Packed the wound with that sap. got it. Packed the wound with that sap. got it. Packed the wound with that sap. Then I went back and shockingly enough, Then I went back and shockingly enough, Then I went back and shockingly enough, we're out in the woods in the dirt and we're out in the woods in the dirt and we're out in the woods in the dirt and the rusty axe or whatever. It never got the rusty axe or whatever. It never got the rusty axe or whatever. It never got infected at all. Healed healed up as infected at all. Healed healed up as infected at all. Healed healed up as best it could. Few days later when they best it could. Few days later when they best it could. Few days later when they came back, Andre, one of the native came back, Andre, one of the native came back, Andre, one of the native guys, brought me a little cane he carved guys, brought me a little cane he carved guys, brought me a little cane he carved for me, which was nice. And so then the for me, which was nice. And so then the for me, which was nice. And so then the next couple days I caned around and next couple days I caned around and next couple days I caned around and then, you know, got to where I could get then, you know, got to where I could get then, you know, got to where I could get back out on the fence again and help back out on the fence again and help back out on the fence again and help out. But it was quite a lesson. You out. But it was quite a lesson. You out. But it was quite a lesson. You know, that was my first time with him know, that was my first time with him know, that was my first time with him and yeah, I was in over my head a little and yeah, I was in over my head a little and yeah, I was in over my head a little bit. High learning curve. bit. High learning curve. bit. High learning curve. >> Yeah, that's a memorable lesson. >> Yeah, that's a memorable lesson. >> Yeah, that's a memorable lesson. >> Memorable lesson. I was very I was >> Memorable lesson. I was very I was >> Memorable lesson. I was very I was pretty miserable in that teepee for a pretty miserable in that teepee for a pretty miserable in that teepee for a few days. few days. few days. >> So, it sounds like you got close to >> So, it sounds like you got close to >> So, it sounds like you got close to quite a few of the locals. Oh, yeah. Can quite a few of the locals. Oh, yeah. Can quite a few of the locals. Oh, yeah. Can you describe hopefully this is enough of you describe hopefully this is enough of you describe hopefully this is enough of a cue because you told me about this a cue because you told me about this a cue because you told me about this moment we're out in the woods in the moment we're out in the woods in the moment we're out in the woods in the mountains but it involves we picked up a mountains but it involves we picked up a mountains but it involves we picked up a few Russian words on this trip and I few Russian words on this trip and I few Russian words on this trip and I think one of them was during think one of them was during think one of them was during >> so if that's enough of a cue in terms of >> so if that's enough of a cue in terms of >> so if that's enough of a cue in terms of warm welcome. warm welcome. warm welcome. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> What was your your first arrival like? >> What was your your first arrival like? >> What was your your first arrival like? This is probably 2005 or six, but I was This is probably 2005 or six, but I was This is probably 2005 or six, but I was heading over to Russia the first time heading over to Russia the first time heading over to Russia the first time and didn't know what to expect. But we and didn't know what to expect. But we and didn't know what to expect. But we land in the Moscow airport and instead land in the Moscow airport and instead land in the Moscow airport and instead of having like a bus or something come of having like a bus or something come of having like a bus or something come up to our airplane, it was like a farm up to our airplane, it was like a farm up to our airplane, it was like a farm tractor, this blue farm tractor and a tractor, this blue farm tractor and a tractor, this blue farm tractor and a wooden trailer. And I was like, "No way. wooden trailer. And I was like, "No way. wooden trailer. And I was like, "No way. Get off the plane." And you know, we're Get off the plane." And you know, we're Get off the plane." And you know, we're climbing into this trailer. And so, of climbing into this trailer. And so, of climbing into this trailer. And so, of course, I took a picture and this course, I took a picture and this course, I took a picture and this officer standing over there, Durac, officer standing over there, Durac, officer standing over there, Durac, which means like idiot. No, the first which means like idiot. No, the first which means like idiot. No, the first greeting of Russia came over to my greeting of Russia came over to my greeting of Russia came over to my phone, made me delete it, and welcome to phone, made me delete it, and welcome to phone, made me delete it, and welcome to Russia. And then uh so that was fitting. Russia. And then uh so that was fitting. Russia. And then uh so that was fitting. >> I guess I guess it's not that different >> I guess I guess it's not that different >> I guess I guess it's not that different from how you would probably get treated from how you would probably get treated from how you would probably get treated at JFK. at JFK. at JFK. >> Yeah, start taking pictures. Fair >> Yeah, start taking pictures. Fair >> Yeah, start taking pictures. Fair enough. Fair enough. A little bit of enough. Fair enough. A little bit of enough. Fair enough. A little bit of cultural ignorance. cultural ignorance. cultural ignorance. All right. So, let's let's go back then All right. So, let's let's go back then All right. So, let's let's go back then >> to >> to >> to the impetus, the catalyst just as a the impetus, the catalyst just as a the impetus, the catalyst just as a skeletal backstory that we're going to skeletal backstory that we're going to skeletal backstory that we're going to dive into. But where did you grow up? dive into. But where did you grow up? dive into. But where did you grow up? >> I grew up in Idaho in on a farm in North >> I grew up in Idaho in on a farm in North >> I grew up in Idaho in on a farm in North Idaho for the most part. And Idaho for the most part. And Idaho for the most part. And >> so, did you grow up learning Russian >> so, did you grow up learning Russian >> so, did you grow up learning Russian from family members, then studying in from family members, then studying in from family members, then studying in school and then going to Russia? No, I school and then going to Russia? No, I school and then going to Russia? No, I never thought particularly a lot about never thought particularly a lot about never thought particularly a lot about Russia, although I was really into Russia, although I was really into Russia, although I was really into history and so I'd read about a lot history and so I'd read about a lot history and so I'd read about a lot about World War II, Russian war memoirs, about World War II, Russian war memoirs, about World War II, Russian war memoirs, you know, so I read and really was you know, so I read and really was you know, so I read and really was impacted by the Gulag Archipelago. So I impacted by the Gulag Archipelago. So I impacted by the Gulag Archipelago. So I had a familiarity with Russia, but it had a familiarity with Russia, but it had a familiarity with Russia, but it was never a destination that I had was never a destination that I had was never a destination that I had thought about. Lived a fairly typical thought about. Lived a fairly typical thought about. Lived a fairly typical beginning to life. Got a job when I was beginning to life. Got a job when I was beginning to life. Got a job when I was 13. Worked worked worked. And then when 13. Worked worked worked. And then when 13. Worked worked worked. And then when I was about 18, my brother invited me to I was about 18, my brother invited me to I was about 18, my brother invited me to ride ride freight trains, you know. So ride ride freight trains, you know. So ride ride freight trains, you know. So that kind of sent me on a that kind of sent me on a that kind of sent me on a >> So we're going to skip forward from >> So we're going to skip forward from >> So we're going to skip forward from there and come back. there and come back. there and come back. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> To why? >> To why? >> To why? >> Let's do it. >> Let's do it. >> Let's do it. >> Hobo Jordo. >> Hobo Jordo. >> Hobo Jordo. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So what on earth happened >> So what on earth happened >> So what on earth happened that led to actually getting on a plane? that led to actually getting on a plane? that led to actually getting on a plane? >> You know, I grew up in a Christian >> You know, I grew up in a Christian >> You know, I grew up in a Christian household and I had seen the fruit of household and I had seen the fruit of household and I had seen the fruit of that path in my life. I'd seen it in that path in my life. I'd seen it in that path in my life. I'd seen it in people around me, my family history, you people around me, my family history, you people around me, my family history, you know, I really valued it and it was know, I really valued it and it was know, I really valued it and it was really meaningful to me. But as I was, really meaningful to me. But as I was, really meaningful to me. But as I was, you know, a teenager and grown up had a you know, a teenager and grown up had a you know, a teenager and grown up had a lot of questions that I hadn't had lot of questions that I hadn't had lot of questions that I hadn't had satisfactorily answered. And so I found satisfactorily answered. And so I found satisfactorily answered. And so I found myself, although I really valued myself, although I really valued myself, although I really valued Christianity and saw it as very good, I Christianity and saw it as very good, I Christianity and saw it as very good, I found myself in a place where I was found myself in a place where I was found myself in a place where I was struggling to connect with it on any struggling to connect with it on any struggling to connect with it on any level. And so level. And so level. And so I was in a fairly dark place as a young I was in a fairly dark place as a young I was in a fairly dark place as a young man there and I remember at that time I man there and I remember at that time I man there and I remember at that time I had read this particular verse and it had read this particular verse and it had read this particular verse and it basically said he who follows a path of basically said he who follows a path of basically said he who follows a path of righteousness and is in the darkness righteousness and is in the darkness righteousness and is in the darkness continue. And that struck me at the time continue. And that struck me at the time continue. And that struck me at the time cuz like okay there's people that try to cuz like okay there's people that try to cuz like okay there's people that try to do the right thing and are still in do the right thing and are still in do the right thing and are still in darkness and that so that's okay. darkness and that so that's okay. darkness and that so that's okay. But it didn't answer a lot of the But it didn't answer a lot of the But it didn't answer a lot of the questions I had and questions I had and questions I had and I didn't want to bulldoze it all because I didn't want to bulldoze it all because I didn't want to bulldoze it all because I had seen that it was good. So, so and I had seen that it was good. So, so and I had seen that it was good. So, so and I also knew I was young and I also knew I was young and I also knew I was young and >> What do you mean by bulldo it? >> What do you mean by bulldo it? >> What do you mean by bulldo it? >> Well, I didn't want to take my faith and >> Well, I didn't want to take my faith and >> Well, I didn't want to take my faith and Christianity and everything that it Christianity and everything that it Christianity and everything that it meant and just meant and just meant and just >> discard it. >> discard it. >> discard it. >> Say this is Yeah, I'm going to discard >> Say this is Yeah, I'm going to discard >> Say this is Yeah, I'm going to discard it and go my own way as a 18-year-old. it and go my own way as a 18-year-old. it and go my own way as a 18-year-old. >> What types of questions did you have? >> What types of questions did you have? >> What types of questions did you have? Yeah, they were actually fairly simple. Yeah, they were actually fairly simple. Yeah, they were actually fairly simple. And and this goes to the next answer, And and this goes to the next answer, And and this goes to the next answer, but I had my two main questions was one but I had my two main questions was one but I had my two main questions was one like surely though your earth is not like surely though your earth is not like surely though your earth is not 6,000 years old. 6,000 years old. 6,000 years old. And then two was I just had a hard time And then two was I just had a hard time And then two was I just had a hard time matching up Old Testament ethics with matching up Old Testament ethics with matching up Old Testament ethics with Christ's message. And I just didn't know Christ's message. And I just didn't know Christ's message. And I just didn't know how to do those things. how to do those things. how to do those things. >> And so I had a lot of what I would call >> And so I had a lot of what I would call >> And so I had a lot of what I would call cultural baggage. There's a lot of cultural baggage. There's a lot of cultural baggage. There's a lot of baggage with my faith. But because I baggage with my faith. But because I baggage with my faith. But because I recognize it as good, I like was like, recognize it as good, I like was like, recognize it as good, I like was like, I'm going to try to stick with it, but I I'm going to try to stick with it, but I I'm going to try to stick with it, but I have to separate the baby from the have to separate the baby from the have to separate the baby from the bathwater. And that's kind of a daunting bathwater. And that's kind of a daunting bathwater. And that's kind of a daunting task because it's kind of a lifelong task because it's kind of a lifelong task because it's kind of a lifelong journey of faith. But I was given a journey of faith. But I was given a journey of faith. But I was given a great boost by the fact that actually great boost by the fact that actually great boost by the fact that actually Jesus did. He said in one part of the Jesus did. He said in one part of the Jesus did. He said in one part of the New Testament, he says, "What's the to New Testament, he says, "What's the to New Testament, he says, "What's the to give a summary, but what's the point of give a summary, but what's the point of give a summary, but what's the point of the law and the prophets? Like what is the law and the prophets? Like what is the law and the prophets? Like what is all this for?" And he says, "Love the all this for?" And he says, "Love the all this for?" And he says, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and Lord your God with all your heart and Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself." So, I love your neighbor as yourself." So, I love your neighbor as yourself." So, I was shocked when I read it because I was was shocked when I read it because I was was shocked when I read it because I was like, "Wow, wait a second. He takes all like, "Wow, wait a second. He takes all like, "Wow, wait a second. He takes all the bath water and throws it out for you the bath water and throws it out for you the bath water and throws it out for you and leaves you the baby." and leaves you the baby." and leaves you the baby." >> Love the Lord your God with all your >> Love the Lord your God with all your >> Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love the your neighbor as heart and love the your neighbor as heart and love the your neighbor as yourself. That was the whole point of yourself. That was the whole point of yourself. That was the whole point of the law and the prophets and everything the law and the prophets and everything the law and the prophets and everything else. And so, I didn't have to figure else. And so, I didn't have to figure else. And so, I didn't have to figure everything else out at the time. And I everything else out at the time. And I everything else out at the time. And I was okay with seeing if that would play was okay with seeing if that would play was okay with seeing if that would play out. And I, you know, like I said, I'd out. And I, you know, like I said, I'd out. And I, you know, like I said, I'd seen enough fruit that I didn't want to seen enough fruit that I didn't want to seen enough fruit that I didn't want to bulldoze it. bulldoze it. bulldoze it. >> What kind of fruit had you seen for >> What kind of fruit had you seen for >> What kind of fruit had you seen for yourself? yourself? yourself? >> Um, you know, so like my mom for one was >> Um, you know, so like my mom for one was >> Um, you know, so like my mom for one was I was like a real woman of faith and had I was like a real woman of faith and had I was like a real woman of faith and had we always had like single moms come over we always had like single moms come over we always had like single moms come over and live at the house and and she would and live at the house and and she would and live at the house and and she would always work to like give gifts to always work to like give gifts to always work to like give gifts to Christmas gifts to prisoners, children Christmas gifts to prisoners, children Christmas gifts to prisoners, children that are out, you know, always had her that are out, you know, always had her that are out, you know, always had her acting in the world in love. And in my acting in the world in love. And in my acting in the world in love. And in my own life, you know, as a young man, you own life, you know, as a young man, you own life, you know, as a young man, you got this thing, this ideal that's got this thing, this ideal that's got this thing, this ideal that's pushing against your natural lust and pushing against your natural lust and pushing against your natural lust and this and that. You know, it get kind of this and that. You know, it get kind of this and that. You know, it get kind of throws a wrench into your natural throws a wrench into your natural throws a wrench into your natural tendencies, whether that be to anger or tendencies, whether that be to anger or tendencies, whether that be to anger or to, you know, it overlays your life with to, you know, it overlays your life with to, you know, it overlays your life with like love, like love, like love, >> you know, ideal. And I saw that as good. >> you know, ideal. And I saw that as good. >> you know, ideal. And I saw that as good. So I chose at that time with those two So I chose at that time with those two So I chose at that time with those two bits of information that like continue bits of information that like continue bits of information that like continue even in the darkness and that I can like even in the darkness and that I can like even in the darkness and that I can like put everything else on pause. The only put everything else on pause. The only put everything else on pause. The only thing I need to to like accept or not thing I need to to like accept or not thing I need to to like accept or not accept is like accept is like accept is like >> love the Lord that that core. And I was >> love the Lord that that core. And I was >> love the Lord that that core. And I was like I'm okay with accepting that. And like I'm okay with accepting that. And like I'm okay with accepting that. And then I had this really deep prayer that then I had this really deep prayer that then I had this really deep prayer that like someday I just wish I had the faith like someday I just wish I had the faith like someday I just wish I had the faith to match. But I but I didn't actually to match. But I but I didn't actually to match. But I but I didn't actually know if I per say believed it. I just know if I per say believed it. I just know if I per say believed it. I just knew that knew that knew that >> I'm going to do it anyway. So, in that >> I'm going to do it anyway. So, in that >> I'm going to do it anyway. So, in that time, I was also traveling and going to time, I was also traveling and going to time, I was also traveling and going to New York and going to Virginia and New York and going to Virginia and New York and going to Virginia and running all around. And I had heard of running all around. And I had heard of running all around. And I had heard of this opportunity to go to Russia and this opportunity to go to Russia and this opportunity to go to Russia and build an orphanage. So, that was the build an orphanage. So, that was the build an orphanage. So, that was the first thought of Russia. And again, it first thought of Russia. And again, it first thought of Russia. And again, it was the distant and I didn't think much was the distant and I didn't think much was the distant and I didn't think much of it, but I did pray, well, if you want of it, but I did pray, well, if you want of it, but I did pray, well, if you want me to go, Lord, you know, you're going me to go, Lord, you know, you're going me to go, Lord, you know, you're going to have to give me a sign because I to have to give me a sign because I to have to give me a sign because I don't have any reason to go. And then I don't have any reason to go. And then I don't have any reason to go. And then I went to New York. I was kind of a went to New York. I was kind of a went to New York. I was kind of a flippant prayer. I think I went to New flippant prayer. I think I went to New flippant prayer. I think I went to New York and met a Russian there and she had York and met a Russian there and she had York and met a Russian there and she had offered to give me Russian lessons cuz offered to give me Russian lessons cuz offered to give me Russian lessons cuz you know the the topic came up and I did you know the the topic came up and I did you know the the topic came up and I did and I don't know what it was but I think and I don't know what it was but I think and I don't know what it was but I think it was maybe you know either putting a it was maybe you know either putting a it was maybe you know either putting a face to a vague idea or or a act of God face to a vague idea or or a act of God face to a vague idea or or a act of God or whatever you want to call it but for or whatever you want to call it but for or whatever you want to call it but for some reason it hit me really emotionally some reason it hit me really emotionally some reason it hit me really emotionally like I would went back to my apartment like I would went back to my apartment like I would went back to my apartment there my sister's apartment and just there my sister's apartment and just there my sister's apartment and just would cry like, oh man, like I felt like would cry like, oh man, like I felt like would cry like, oh man, like I felt like a heavy burden for it wasn't even a heavy burden for it wasn't even a heavy burden for it wasn't even directed at her. It was directed at this directed at her. It was directed at this directed at her. It was directed at this vague idea of going and I and I couldn't vague idea of going and I and I couldn't vague idea of going and I and I couldn't tell even at the time I was like I could tell even at the time I was like I could tell even at the time I was like I could I this could just be like I couldn't I this could just be like I couldn't I this could just be like I couldn't quite explain it but it could be quite explain it but it could be quite explain it but it could be explicable but also I could just accept explicable but also I could just accept explicable but also I could just accept it as the kick that I prayed for. And so it as the kick that I prayed for. And so it as the kick that I prayed for. And so I kind of did and again I still didn't I kind of did and again I still didn't I kind of did and again I still didn't have the faith to match. Like I remember have the faith to match. Like I remember have the faith to match. Like I remember going I was like okay I'm going to go going I was like okay I'm going to go going I was like okay I'm going to go take it as an answer. I bought a ticket take it as an answer. I bought a ticket take it as an answer. I bought a ticket for a year and headed over to I didn't for a year and headed over to I didn't for a year and headed over to I didn't even really know where and there was a even really know where and there was a even really know where and there was a guy over there, Justice Walker. Awesome guy over there, Justice Walker. Awesome guy over there, Justice Walker. Awesome dude. He was heading up that orphanage dude. He was heading up that orphanage dude. He was heading up that orphanage building project. And so that was my building project. And so that was my building project. And so that was my only connection. And then I remember on only connection. And then I remember on only connection. And then I remember on the train I was like it was hard for me the train I was like it was hard for me the train I was like it was hard for me to go cuz I had like a girl I had a to go cuz I had like a girl I had a to go cuz I had like a girl I had a crush on and all these I had like a job. crush on and all these I had like a job. crush on and all these I had like a job. I wanted to pursue my education and I wanted to pursue my education and I wanted to pursue my education and maybe become an officer in the Marines, maybe become an officer in the Marines, maybe become an officer in the Marines, you know, all these things I had ideas you know, all these things I had ideas you know, all these things I had ideas for. And then I was on this train and for. And then I was on this train and for. And then I was on this train and had given all that up like on the had given all that up like on the had given all that up like on the translate beer and rail like chugging translate beer and rail like chugging translate beer and rail like chugging across and I remember just like Lord if across and I remember just like Lord if across and I remember just like Lord if I could have one thing someday give me I could have one thing someday give me I could have one thing someday give me faith to match my like of willingness to faith to match my like of willingness to faith to match my like of willingness to sacrifice. Anyway, so that was my kick sacrifice. Anyway, so that was my kick sacrifice. Anyway, so that was my kick into Russia kind of open-ended and I into Russia kind of open-ended and I into Russia kind of open-ended and I just had one thing I was grasping like just had one thing I was grasping like just had one thing I was grasping like love your neighbor as yourself. Let me love your neighbor as yourself. Let me love your neighbor as yourself. Let me see if I can implement this in the world see if I can implement this in the world see if I can implement this in the world in whatever place I am. I wasn't like in whatever place I am. I wasn't like in whatever place I am. I wasn't like trying to per se trying to per se trying to per se do anything other than that. Mhm. do anything other than that. Mhm. do anything other than that. Mhm. >> Tell me if this is a fair read. >> Tell me if this is a fair read. >> Tell me if this is a fair read. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I've often said to myself and to other >> I've often said to myself and to other >> I've often said to myself and to other people, and I absolutely >> borrowed it from someone else. I did not >> borrowed it from someone else. I did not come up with this, but the general maxim come up with this, but the general maxim come up with this, but the general maxim that it's easier to act your way into a that it's easier to act your way into a that it's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than to think your new way of thinking than to think your new way of thinking than to think your way into a new way of acting. way into a new way of acting. way into a new way of acting. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So act as if. >> So act as if. >> So act as if. >> Act as if. That's very much so. >> Act as if. That's very much so. >> Act as if. That's very much so. >> Right. And I think particularly when >> Right. And I think particularly when >> Right. And I think particularly when you're when you're dealing with you're when you're dealing with you're when you're dealing with something like something like something like apathy or love or you know like how do apathy or love or you know like how do apathy or love or you know like how do you relate in the world like one thing you relate in the world like one thing you relate in the world like one thing that was clear is like oh well actually that was clear is like oh well actually that was clear is like oh well actually if you're going to actually love thing if you're going to actually love thing if you're going to actually love thing it's an action you know and so going to it's an action you know and so going to it's an action you know and so going to do this let's try to you know you can't do this let's try to you know you can't do this let's try to you know you can't be be be stagnant in that orientation stagnant in that orientation stagnant in that orientation but I think that's a good summary. Yes. but I think that's a good summary. Yes. but I think that's a good summary. Yes. How did you go from orphanage to Ivanki? How did you go from orphanage to Ivanki? How did you go from orphanage to Ivanki? >> I went over to help Justice Walker build >> I went over to help Justice Walker build >> I went over to help Justice Walker build this orphanage super and that was neat, this orphanage super and that was neat, this orphanage super and that was neat, but I it was just me and he needed a lot but I it was just me and he needed a lot but I it was just me and he needed a lot of groundwork laid and you know, wells of groundwork laid and you know, wells of groundwork laid and you know, wells dug, but he eventually had a crew lined dug, but he eventually had a crew lined dug, but he eventually had a crew lined up that was going to come over and up that was going to come over and up that was going to come over and actually frame the thing and put the actually frame the thing and put the actually frame the thing and put the thing up and do all that. So, I was thing up and do all that. So, I was thing up and do all that. So, I was there kind of doing the ground work. We there kind of doing the ground work. We there kind of doing the ground work. We dug a well and did all this stuff, but dug a well and did all this stuff, but dug a well and did all this stuff, but it was still pretty preliminary. it was still pretty preliminary. it was still pretty preliminary. And I was there for a few months. Really And I was there for a few months. Really And I was there for a few months. Really enjoyed being in Russia, but I was enjoyed being in Russia, but I was enjoyed being in Russia, but I was struck by the fact that I actually struck by the fact that I actually struck by the fact that I actually really want to live with Russians, you really want to live with Russians, you really want to live with Russians, you know, and know, and know, and >> and so I told that to Justice and he was >> and so I told that to Justice and he was >> and so I told that to Justice and he was like, "Well, let's call the neighboring like, "Well, let's call the neighboring like, "Well, let's call the neighboring village." He called him up and the guy village." He called him up and the guy village." He called him up and the guy was like, "Whoa, yeah, absolutely. Send was like, "Whoa, yeah, absolutely. Send was like, "Whoa, yeah, absolutely. Send the American over. My wife's in the the American over. My wife's in the the American over. My wife's in the hospital and I need someone to watch my hospital and I need someone to watch my hospital and I need someone to watch my kids." So, how long had you been there kids." So, how long had you been there kids." So, how long had you been there at that point? at that point? at that point? >> 3 months, I would guess. >> 3 months, I would guess. >> 3 months, I would guess. >> How much Russian did you speak at that >> How much Russian did you speak at that >> How much Russian did you speak at that point? point? point? >> Very little. Very little. I was trying >> Very little. Very little. I was trying >> Very little. Very little. I was trying to pick it up, but that was part of the to pick it up, but that was part of the to pick it up, but that was part of the problem is Justice was so much He was problem is Justice was so much He was problem is Justice was so much He was one of the most well- read people I've one of the most well- read people I've one of the most well- read people I've ever been with. So, it was so fun to ever been with. So, it was so fun to ever been with. So, it was so fun to just talk to him and and so just talk to him and and so just talk to him and and so >> it's a lot easier than working on your >> it's a lot easier than working on your >> it's a lot easier than working on your ABCs. ABCs. ABCs. >> Yeah, exactly. And so, I was not doing >> Yeah, exactly. And so, I was not doing >> Yeah, exactly. And so, I was not doing it to the And when you first go to a it to the And when you first go to a it to the And when you first go to a country, you're so struck by how much country, you're so struck by how much country, you're so struck by how much you can communicate through you can communicate through you can communicate through non-verbbally and then you all of a non-verbbally and then you all of a non-verbbally and then you all of a sudden hit a wall. So you're like, okay, sudden hit a wall. So you're like, okay, sudden hit a wall. So you're like, okay, I wanted to get past that as fast as I wanted to get past that as fast as I wanted to get past that as fast as possible. So I went to that little possible. So I went to that little possible. So I went to that little village and was fully immersed in a village and was fully immersed in a village and was fully immersed in a Siberian village life right there. Yeah, Siberian village life right there. Yeah, Siberian village life right there. Yeah, that was pretty funny cuz I hadn't dealt that was pretty funny cuz I hadn't dealt that was pretty funny cuz I hadn't dealt with kids before or anything like that. with kids before or anything like that. with kids before or anything like that. Euro had to go back to his lumber mill Euro had to go back to his lumber mill Euro had to go back to his lumber mill job and so he was big Russian dude, you job and so he was big Russian dude, you job and so he was big Russian dude, you know, that big handshake. Oh, so glad know, that big handshake. Oh, so glad know, that big handshake. Oh, so glad you're here and showed me around. And you're here and showed me around. And you're here and showed me around. And here's the kids, 5-year-old boy and a here's the kids, 5-year-old boy and a here's the kids, 5-year-old boy and a 2-year-old girl. you know, introduce, 2-year-old girl. you know, introduce, 2-year-old girl. you know, introduce, have some tea. Then the next day, he's have some tea. Then the next day, he's have some tea. Then the next day, he's already off to work. He pointed me where already off to work. He pointed me where already off to work. He pointed me where the grocery store is. And so I was in the grocery store is. And so I was in the grocery store is. And so I was in the deep end trying to take care of the deep end trying to take care of the deep end trying to take care of these two kids. I'd never done that these two kids. I'd never done that these two kids. I'd never done that before. Grocery shop for him. I didn't before. Grocery shop for him. I didn't before. Grocery shop for him. I didn't even know the language. And that was my even know the language. And that was my even know the language. And that was my splash into Russia proper, I guess, in splash into Russia proper, I guess, in splash into Russia proper, I guess, in that regards. that regards. that regards. >> And then how do you get into reindeer >> And then how do you get into reindeer >> And then how do you get into reindeer territory? territory? territory? >> So these guys, Yura had been to prison >> So these guys, Yura had been to prison >> So these guys, Yura had been to prison before. And before. And before. And >> who was that? Eur was the guy, sorry, >> who was that? Eur was the guy, sorry, >> who was that? Eur was the guy, sorry, the Russian guy to live with. Yeah, the the Russian guy to live with. Yeah, the the Russian guy to live with. Yeah, the big Russian big Russian big Russian and he uh his neighbor was named was and he uh his neighbor was named was and he uh his neighbor was named was Eager and he had also been to prison. Eager and he had also been to prison. Eager and he had also been to prison. And these are all guys in Siberia with And these are all guys in Siberia with And these are all guys in Siberia with pretty storied pasts. They really pretty storied pasts. They really pretty storied pasts. They really enjoyed having me over there for one. I enjoyed having me over there for one. I enjoyed having me over there for one. I was like really trying to just work hard was like really trying to just work hard was like really trying to just work hard and it was so random for them to have an and it was so random for them to have an and it was so random for them to have an American that they uh would kind of American that they uh would kind of American that they uh would kind of tugof-war me back between their two tugof-war me back between their two tugof-war me back between their two houses. houses. houses. >> He had American. >> He had American. >> He had American. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So it was they both became like families So it was they both became like families So it was they both became like families to me. You know, they both had kids and to me. You know, they both had kids and to me. You know, they both had kids and both a lot of fun in different ways, but both a lot of fun in different ways, but both a lot of fun in different ways, but Eager, the second family there, had been Eager, the second family there, had been Eager, the second family there, had been in prison with a native fur trapper from in prison with a native fur trapper from in prison with a native fur trapper from the far north. And they were really the far north. And they were really the far north. And they were really close cuz they had like found God in close cuz they had like found God in close cuz they had like found God in prison together. And so he was always prison together. And so he was always prison together. And so he was always telling me, "You got to go north and telling me, "You got to go north and telling me, "You got to go north and meet my fur trapping buddy." So after meet my fur trapping buddy." So after meet my fur trapping buddy." So after that year of living in Russia, right at that year of living in Russia, right at that year of living in Russia, right at the end of it, Europe, the trapper came the end of it, Europe, the trapper came the end of it, Europe, the trapper came through town to sell furs and we met and through town to sell furs and we met and through town to sell furs and we met and he invited me up to live with him. And he invited me up to live with him. And he invited me up to live with him. And so I was like, I'm going to go home to so I was like, I'm going to go home to so I was like, I'm going to go home to America, renew my visa, get some earn America, renew my visa, get some earn America, renew my visa, get some earn some money, and then I'll come back. And some money, and then I'll come back. And some money, and then I'll come back. And so I went back and headed straight so I went back and headed straight so I went back and headed straight north, more or less. And then I was in north, more or less. And then I was in north, more or less. And then I was in even more over my head. even more over my head. even more over my head. >> So what was what was the first day like >> So what was what was the first day like >> So what was what was the first day like when you land first day, first week when when you land first day, first week when when you land first day, first week when you land in the far north? Oh, now this you land in the far north? Oh, now this you land in the far north? Oh, now this is in Siberia proper. is in Siberia proper. is in Siberia proper. >> Well, we've been in Siberia the whole >> Well, we've been in Siberia the whole >> Well, we've been in Siberia the whole time, but it was just incrementally time, but it was just incrementally time, but it was just incrementally further north in kind of central further north in kind of central further north in kind of central Siberia. Siberia. Siberia. >> How cold does it get in the northern? >> How cold does it get in the northern? >> How cold does it get in the northern? >> Far north, you know, where I would end >> Far north, you know, where I would end >> Far north, you know, where I would end up being with the nomads. It'd get to up being with the nomads. It'd get to up being with the nomads. It'd get to 5860, 5860, 5860, like kind of the the cut off. But first like kind of the the cut off. But first like kind of the the cut off. But first getting to the north, it's funny. Well, getting to the north, it's funny. Well, getting to the north, it's funny. Well, one thing I was struck by when I one thing I was struck by when I one thing I was struck by when I honestly when I got to Russia was honestly when I got to Russia was honestly when I got to Russia was there's a lot of al drinking. Yeah. And there's a lot of al drinking. Yeah. And there's a lot of al drinking. Yeah. And >> every bit I went further north, every >> every bit I went further north, every >> every bit I went further north, every time I would get used to it at one time I would get used to it at one time I would get used to it at one place, you know, I remember driving in a place, you know, I remember driving in a place, you know, I remember driving in a village in the first village I was with village in the first village I was with village in the first village I was with Justice and we're just cruising along on Justice and we're just cruising along on Justice and we're just cruising along on a cold winter day and on in the bus and a cold winter day and on in the bus and a cold winter day and on in the bus and it swerves around this guy laying in the it swerves around this guy laying in the it swerves around this guy laying in the road, but we're out in the middle of road, but we're out in the middle of road, but we're out in the middle of nowhere. I was like, "Whoa, like it's nowhere. I was like, "Whoa, like it's nowhere. I was like, "Whoa, like it's cold out. We're going to stop." And the cold out. We're going to stop." And the cold out. We're going to stop." And the lady across from me and I could, you lady across from me and I could, you lady across from me and I could, you know, make out with my bad Russian. know, make out with my bad Russian. know, make out with my bad Russian. She's like, "Ah, he's a drunk. He's She's like, "Ah, he's a drunk. He's She's like, "Ah, he's a drunk. He's dead." I was like, "Whoa." dead." I was like, "Whoa." dead." I was like, "Whoa." And so it was kind of intense, but you And so it was kind of intense, but you And so it was kind of intense, but you kind of re-calibrate at the new norm. kind of re-calibrate at the new norm. kind of re-calibrate at the new norm. And when I went to the next northern And when I went to the next northern And when I went to the next northern village, reruck me again. I was like, village, reruck me again. I was like, village, reruck me again. I was like, "Oh, there's chaos." And that first week "Oh, there's chaos." And that first week "Oh, there's chaos." And that first week was was that cuz I was with Euro and he was was that cuz I was with Euro and he was was that cuz I was with Euro and he was showing me around. And we go to this was showing me around. And we go to this was showing me around. And we go to this first house and I mean I think even it first house and I mean I think even it first house and I mean I think even it might have been even on the way from the might have been even on the way from the might have been even on the way from the airport. But pick up some random drunk airport. But pick up some random drunk airport. But pick up some random drunk guy and he's he like holds up his phone. guy and he's he like holds up his phone. guy and he's he like holds up his phone. Listen to this. And just his wife just Listen to this. And just his wife just Listen to this. And just his wife just chewing him out and cussing him out. chewing him out and cussing him out. chewing him out and cussing him out. He's like that's the fury of a Russian He's like that's the fury of a Russian He's like that's the fury of a Russian woman, you know, cuz he's miss been woman, you know, cuz he's miss been woman, you know, cuz he's miss been missing for who knows how long. missing for who knows how long. missing for who knows how long. >> Let's see how how can I summarize some >> Let's see how how can I summarize some >> Let's see how how can I summarize some of what we we were talking about at of what we we were talking about at of what we we were talking about at dinner last night. dinner last night. dinner last night. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> correct me if I get anything wrong. Like >> correct me if I get anything wrong. Like >> correct me if I get anything wrong. Like in the Avanki you have these sustenance in the Avanki you have these sustenance in the Avanki you have these sustenance hunters, trappers, etc. with hunters, trappers, etc. with hunters, trappers, etc. with encyclopedic encyclopedic encyclopedic knowledge and where and wherewithal. I knowledge and where and wherewithal. I knowledge and where and wherewithal. I mean it's it's just mindboggling, right? mean it's it's just mindboggling, right? mean it's it's just mindboggling, right? I I haven't I I haven't I I haven't >> had an opportunity to spend time in that >> had an opportunity to spend time in that >> had an opportunity to spend time in that region of the world, but certainly in region of the world, but certainly in region of the world, but certainly in Central and South America and Africa and Central and South America and Africa and Central and South America and Africa and so on. When you start to look at let's so on. When you start to look at let's so on. When you start to look at let's just say like Shangun trackers in South just say like Shangun trackers in South just say like Shangun trackers in South Africa there are like levels and then Africa there are like levels and then Africa there are like levels and then the Kalahari Bushman and then there are the Kalahari Bushman and then there are the Kalahari Bushman and then there are levels and levels and levels and >> it's unbelievable how fluent they are in >> it's unbelievable how fluent they are in >> it's unbelievable how fluent they are in their environment. their environment. their environment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And at the same time many of these >> And at the same time many of these >> And at the same time many of these groups have an Achilles heel. groups have an Achilles heel. groups have an Achilles heel. >> That's what it feels like >> That's what it feels like >> That's what it feels like >> which is alcohol. M >> which is alcohol. M >> which is alcohol. M >> and to put it in perspective, what is >> and to put it in perspective, what is >> and to put it in perspective, what is the percentage of deaths attributable to the percentage of deaths attributable to the percentage of deaths attributable to homicide, suicide or alcohol-related homicide, suicide or alcohol-related homicide, suicide or alcohol-related accidents? statistic I heard for the accidents? statistic I heard for the accidents? statistic I heard for the northern native villages was 30% of northern native villages was 30% of northern native villages was 30% of people die from homicide, suicide, and people die from homicide, suicide, and people die from homicide, suicide, and having lived there a long time like having lived there a long time like having lived there a long time like actually if I appreciate you stepping actually if I appreciate you stepping actually if I appreciate you stepping back a little bit because I don't want back a little bit because I don't want back a little bit because I don't want to like air dirty laundry and not y to like air dirty laundry and not y to like air dirty laundry and not y >> put the proper context like >> put the proper context like >> put the proper context like >> I love those people and they're my >> I love those people and they're my >> I love those people and they're my friends and and many of my friends have friends and and many of my friends have friends and and many of my friends have that issue but it has really tangible that issue but it has really tangible that issue but it has really tangible consequences when it's at that level. It consequences when it's at that level. It consequences when it's at that level. It was amazing because these people, you was amazing because these people, you was amazing because these people, you know, you go in the village and they'd know, you go in the village and they'd know, you go in the village and they'd be just on the ground drunk for like be just on the ground drunk for like be just on the ground drunk for like weeks on end, just binges that could weeks on end, just binges that could weeks on end, just binges that could only be broken by taking them back out only be broken by taking them back out only be broken by taking them back out in the woods. But when they get in the in the woods. But when they get in the in the woods. But when they get in the woods and sober up, these are like the woods and sober up, these are like the woods and sober up, these are like the coolest, most knowledgeable people. coolest, most knowledgeable people. coolest, most knowledgeable people. People that you would say are happy and People that you would say are happy and People that you would say are happy and living a fulfilled life and and also living a fulfilled life and and also living a fulfilled life and and also just really open and pleasant and quick just really open and pleasant and quick just really open and pleasant and quick to become family basically. But it's to become family basically. But it's to become family basically. But it's almost explicable just in the cultural almost explicable just in the cultural almost explicable just in the cultural tumult that's they've had to endure over tumult that's they've had to endure over tumult that's they've had to endure over time because you know it was just in the time because you know it was just in the time because you know it was just in the 30s and stuff that basically the Soviet 30s and stuff that basically the Soviet 30s and stuff that basically the Soviet Union and Stalin like kind of really Union and Stalin like kind of really Union and Stalin like kind of really grabbed a hold of what was had been long grabbed a hold of what was had been long grabbed a hold of what was had been long before just a traditional way of life before just a traditional way of life before just a traditional way of life that continued forward alongside Russian that continued forward alongside Russian that continued forward alongside Russian fur trappers. And they grabbed hold of fur trappers. And they grabbed hold of fur trappers. And they grabbed hold of it with like an iron fist force it with like an iron fist force it with like an iron fist force collectivized it. All the people that collectivized it. All the people that collectivized it. All the people that were spiritual leaders of any kind, were spiritual leaders of any kind, were spiritual leaders of any kind, shamans and everybody else got sent to shamans and everybody else got sent to shamans and everybody else got sent to prison camps. Anyone that was really prison camps. Anyone that was really prison camps. Anyone that was really productive. So like if anyone that had productive. So like if anyone that had productive. So like if anyone that had more than 500 reindeer were sent to more than 500 reindeer were sent to more than 500 reindeer were sent to prison camps as kulocks or whatever, you prison camps as kulocks or whatever, you prison camps as kulocks or whatever, you know, and then they kind of just gutted know, and then they kind of just gutted know, and then they kind of just gutted the intellectual and spiritual soul from the intellectual and spiritual soul from the intellectual and spiritual soul from them and then built these villages. They them and then built these villages. They them and then built these villages. They forced him to be him and then instead of forced him to be him and then instead of forced him to be him and then instead of them having reindeer them having reindeer them having reindeer and being people existing freely out in and being people existing freely out in and being people existing freely out in the wilderness, they turned them into the wilderness, they turned them into the wilderness, they turned them into collective farms. So now now you're collective farms. So now now you're collective farms. So now now you're hired as a reindeer herder to herd the hired as a reindeer herder to herd the hired as a reindeer herder to herd the government's reindeer and your wife government's reindeer and your wife government's reindeer and your wife might be hired as a teepee worker to might be hired as a teepee worker to might be hired as a teepee worker to live in the tepee. And so they just live in the tepee. And so they just live in the tepee. And so they just restructured the life. The kids now restructured the life. The kids now restructured the life. The kids now don't live with you in the woods. They don't live with you in the woods. They don't live with you in the woods. They go to boarding school, separated the go to boarding school, separated the go to boarding school, separated the families, and then somehow they actually families, and then somehow they actually families, and then somehow they actually made that kind of work, you know, and made that kind of work, you know, and made that kind of work, you know, and and to some degree the reindeer, while and to some degree the reindeer, while and to some degree the reindeer, while less independent than they were prior, less independent than they were prior, less independent than they were prior, they flourished in that they had big they flourished in that they had big they flourished in that they had big herds of reindeer and people were herds of reindeer and people were herds of reindeer and people were productive and alcohol was banned. So productive and alcohol was banned. So productive and alcohol was banned. So they kind of were quite productive and they kind of were quite productive and they kind of were quite productive and then the Soviet Union collapsed and then the Soviet Union collapsed and then the Soviet Union collapsed and overnight all the reindeer just became overnight all the reindeer just became overnight all the reindeer just became for the highest bidder. So the, you for the highest bidder. So the, you for the highest bidder. So the, you know, Russians and people from out of know, Russians and people from out of know, Russians and people from out of town that had a lot of money just came town that had a lot of money just came town that had a lot of money just came in and bought all these reindeer that in and bought all these reindeer that in and bought all these reindeer that were grandpas and grandma's, you know, were grandpas and grandma's, you know, were grandpas and grandma's, you know, blood and sweat and just butchered them blood and sweat and just butchered them blood and sweat and just butchered them and sent them to the meat shops. And the and sent them to the meat shops. And the and sent them to the meat shops. And the reindeer herders like scraped together reindeer herders like scraped together reindeer herders like scraped together what little bit of money they could and what little bit of money they could and what little bit of money they could and bought a few reindeer and went back into bought a few reindeer and went back into bought a few reindeer and went back into the woods. The family I lived with, Van the woods. The family I lived with, Van the woods. The family I lived with, Van Victor was the old man when I first got Victor was the old man when I first got Victor was the old man when I first got there and he was blind, but he was the there and he was blind, but he was the there and he was blind, but he was the guy that had like got some of these guy that had like got some of these guy that had like got some of these reindeer, took his sons out of the reindeer, took his sons out of the reindeer, took his sons out of the boarding school and raised them in the boarding school and raised them in the boarding school and raised them in the woods. It gave me a real appreciation woods. It gave me a real appreciation woods. It gave me a real appreciation also for the traditional ways of life also for the traditional ways of life also for the traditional ways of life because I could see it in villages where because I could see it in villages where because I could see it in villages where reindeer hurting hadn't been hung on to reindeer hurting hadn't been hung on to reindeer hurting hadn't been hung on to and they just felt like black holes. and they just felt like black holes. and they just felt like black holes. like everybody was just drinking and like everybody was just drinking and like everybody was just drinking and there was nothing to do and they don't there was nothing to do and they don't there was nothing to do and they don't have an outlet to like flourish with have an outlet to like flourish with have an outlet to like flourish with something they're proud of in something they're proud of in something they're proud of in >> in their native ways. So it felt pretty >> in their native ways. So it felt pretty >> in their native ways. So it felt pretty dead end. But the village with reindeer dead end. But the village with reindeer dead end. But the village with reindeer hering had this whole thing and they and hering had this whole thing and they and hering had this whole thing and they and you know the reindeer herders out there you know the reindeer herders out there you know the reindeer herders out there and because of that even the people that and because of that even the people that and because of that even the people that don't do it are proud to be reindeer don't do it are proud to be reindeer don't do it are proud to be reindeer herders and they have a place to send herders and they have a place to send herders and they have a place to send their kids in the summer and people have their kids in the summer and people have their kids in the summer and people have this there's a little bit of cultural this there's a little bit of cultural this there's a little bit of cultural momentum that momentum that momentum that >> it's really enriching. Let's unpack this >> it's really enriching. Let's unpack this >> it's really enriching. Let's unpack this word and this animal and the word and this animal and the word and this animal and the significance of reindeer because come up significance of reindeer because come up significance of reindeer because come up a ton and people are like what is up a ton and people are like what is up a ton and people are like what is up with these magical reindeer probably. So with these magical reindeer probably. So with these magical reindeer probably. So first of all just to paint a picture for first of all just to paint a picture for first of all just to paint a picture for folks and this might not help but folks and this might not help but folks and this might not help but >> how similar are reindeer to caribou >> how similar are reindeer to caribou >> how similar are reindeer to caribou >> very similar. You probably wouldn't >> very similar. You probably wouldn't >> very similar. You probably wouldn't recognize the difference but they do recognize the difference but they do recognize the difference but they do have a slight genetic just from have a slight genetic just from have a slight genetic just from separation. And so reindeer are separation. And so reindeer are separation. And so reindeer are technically in the old world and caribou technically in the old world and caribou technically in the old world and caribou are the similar animal but in the new are the similar animal but in the new are the similar animal but in the new world so Canada and stuff world so Canada and stuff world so Canada and stuff >> and they can breed with each other and >> and they can breed with each other and >> and they can breed with each other and stuff but stuff but stuff but >> they the results turn out poorly like >> they the results turn out poorly like >> they the results turn out poorly like they get the worst traits of both. In they get the worst traits of both. In they get the worst traits of both. In the old world the reindeer were the old world the reindeer were the old world the reindeer were domesticated very long ago like 10,000 domesticated very long ago like 10,000 domesticated very long ago like 10,000 years ago or whenever. So there's years ago or whenever. So there's years ago or whenever. So there's actually kind of become a bit of a actually kind of become a bit of a actually kind of become a bit of a domestic strain of reindeer. like the domestic strain of reindeer. like the domestic strain of reindeer. like the natives now can't domesticate the wild natives now can't domesticate the wild natives now can't domesticate the wild ones. And if a wild one comes in and ones. And if a wild one comes in and ones. And if a wild one comes in and breeds with theirs, then it's always breeds with theirs, then it's always breeds with theirs, then it's always going to be wild. So, it's been a way of going to be wild. So, it's been a way of going to be wild. So, it's been a way of life long enough that there's some even life long enough that there's some even life long enough that there's some even genetic separation between the wild and genetic separation between the wild and genetic separation between the wild and the semi-domemestic. the semi-domemestic. the semi-domemestic. >> And what is the role of the reindeer? >> And what is the role of the reindeer? >> And what is the role of the reindeer? Why are they so important? Is it Why are they so important? Is it Why are they so important? Is it analogous to say bison for some of the analogous to say bison for some of the analogous to say bison for some of the plains Indians in North America? Is it plains Indians in North America? Is it plains Indians in North America? Is it different? different? different? >> Well, I guess it's different because of >> Well, I guess it's different because of >> Well, I guess it's different because of the domestication. the domestication. the domestication. >> Exactly. I was going to say it's >> Exactly. I was going to say it's >> Exactly. I was going to say it's analogous in that, you know, their whole analogous in that, you know, their whole analogous in that, you know, their whole cultural cultural cultural stories and everything are all connected stories and everything are all connected stories and everything are all connected with the reindeer like with the bison. with the reindeer like with the bison. with the reindeer like with the bison. But it does differ because the reindeer But it does differ because the reindeer But it does differ because the reindeer actually practically make living in the actually practically make living in the actually practically make living in the woods woods woods in the taigga in those remote northern in the taigga in those remote northern in the taigga in those remote northern forests a thing. Like it makes it forests a thing. Like it makes it forests a thing. Like it makes it possible to exist out there year round possible to exist out there year round possible to exist out there year round and have transportation. And so they and have transportation. And so they and have transportation. And so they ride the reindeer like you would horses ride the reindeer like you would horses ride the reindeer like you would horses and then they also in the wintertime and then they also in the wintertime and then they also in the wintertime ride them, you know, slays. They provide ride them, you know, slays. They provide ride them, you know, slays. They provide meat when the hunts don't go well. They meat when the hunts don't go well. They meat when the hunts don't go well. They provide the furs that, you know, so they provide the furs that, you know, so they provide the furs that, you know, so they kind of provide everything. They also kind of provide everything. They also kind of provide everything. They also provide just the cultural context. Like provide just the cultural context. Like provide just the cultural context. Like you could go out there, sure, and set up you could go out there, sure, and set up you could go out there, sure, and set up a teepee and live and bring in noodles a teepee and live and bring in noodles a teepee and live and bring in noodles and, you know, be just fine. But but it and, you know, be just fine. But but it and, you know, be just fine. But but it would feel fairly dead without just the would feel fairly dead without just the would feel fairly dead without just the rhythms of life that are created by rhythms of life that are created by rhythms of life that are created by the reindeer. So they're really core to the reindeer. So they're really core to the reindeer. So they're really core to to that to that to that >> sort of the rhythms >> sort of the rhythms >> sort of the rhythms >> to the rhythms and and but also they're >> to the rhythms and and but also they're >> to the rhythms and and but also they're very practically very practically very practically >> I always hated snowmobiles cuz they're >> I always hated snowmobiles cuz they're >> I always hated snowmobiles cuz they're going to break down and then you're going to break down and then you're going to break down and then you're going to be stuck, you know, 40 going to be stuck, you know, 40 going to be stuck, you know, 40 kilometers from camp and like you said, kilometers from camp and like you said, kilometers from camp and like you said, your hands aren't working. You got to your hands aren't working. You got to your hands aren't working. You got to try to work on this whole thing. When try to work on this whole thing. When try to work on this whole thing. When you had a reindeer in a sleigh, you had a reindeer in a sleigh, you had a reindeer in a sleigh, >> no problem. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. And >> no problem. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. And >> no problem. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is a point that is interesting so this is a point that is interesting so this is a point that is interesting to make that I learned living in the to make that I learned living in the to make that I learned living in the woods for a while is like you're home. woods for a while is like you're home. woods for a while is like you're home. You're just already home wherever you You're just already home wherever you You're just already home wherever you are. And so like when you have your are. And so like when you have your are. And so like when you have your reindeer and stuff, you're not lost. reindeer and stuff, you're not lost. reindeer and stuff, you're not lost. You're home. You know, like just where You're home. You know, like just where You're home. You know, like just where you are is kind of home. And you're able you are is kind of home. And you're able you are is kind of home. And you're able to take that and really embody it and to take that and really embody it and to take that and really embody it and become like a part of the wilderness in become like a part of the wilderness in become like a part of the wilderness in that way. Mhm. that way. Mhm. that way. Mhm. >> So, we're going to get back to hopping >> So, we're going to get back to hopping >> So, we're going to get back to hopping trains in a second, but trains in a second, but trains in a second, but >> you you kind of passed over >> you you kind of passed over >> you you kind of passed over Gulog Archipelago Gulog Archipelago Gulog Archipelago >> and you're like, it had an influence. It >> and you're like, it had an influence. It >> and you're like, it had an influence. It had an impact on me. Seems like that had an impact on me. Seems like that had an impact on me. Seems like that might be an understatement. might be an understatement. might be an understatement. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> For people who are wondering, this is >> For people who are wondering, this is >> For people who are wondering, this is not a light, breezy 100page read. not a light, breezy 100page read. not a light, breezy 100page read. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. And we're going to come to that in just And we're going to come to that in just And we're going to come to that in just a second, but what did your childhood a second, but what did your childhood a second, but what did your childhood education look like? education look like? education look like? >> I was homeschooled, so I was my mom took >> I was homeschooled, so I was my mom took >> I was homeschooled, so I was my mom took it real seriously and she was pretty it real seriously and she was pretty it real seriously and she was pretty hands-on in in teaching us. And I for hands-on in in teaching us. And I for hands-on in in teaching us. And I for whatever reason really got into history whatever reason really got into history whatever reason really got into history as a young kid. So even probably was 12, as a young kid. So even probably was 12, as a young kid. So even probably was 12, I read this big I remember it was my I read this big I remember it was my I read this big I remember it was my first real thick book, but it was about first real thick book, but it was about first real thick book, but it was about Euima and like World War II and those Euima and like World War II and those Euima and like World War II and those battles and battles and battles and >> and then I got really into those >> and then I got really into those >> and then I got really into those memoirs. Read a bunch of German memoirs memoirs. Read a bunch of German memoirs memoirs. Read a bunch of German memoirs from World War II, which were always from World War II, which were always from World War II, which were always crazy because they had to go through so crazy because they had to go through so crazy because they had to go through so much. And then the Russian ones because much. And then the Russian ones because much. And then the Russian ones because I was anyway got into all the memoirs I was anyway got into all the memoirs I was anyway got into all the memoirs and then somehow came across the Gulag and then somehow came across the Gulag and then somehow came across the Gulag Archipelago. Archipelago. Archipelago. And I was fairly young. You know, I was And I was fairly young. You know, I was And I was fairly young. You know, I was probably 17, 18 when I first read it. probably 17, 18 when I first read it. probably 17, 18 when I first read it. And it impacted me in a lot of ways that And it impacted me in a lot of ways that And it impacted me in a lot of ways that were relevant to my, you know, the were relevant to my, you know, the were relevant to my, you know, the little spiritual path that I was on little spiritual path that I was on little spiritual path that I was on before because a lot of what he talks before because a lot of what he talks before because a lot of what he talks about is that happiness can't be our about is that happiness can't be our about is that happiness can't be our ultimate goal in life. We have to have ultimate goal in life. We have to have ultimate goal in life. We have to have purpose, you know, and so purpose, you know, and so purpose, you know, and so >> could you just for people who and >> could you just for people who and >> could you just for people who and certainly I'm not intimately familiar certainly I'm not intimately familiar certainly I'm not intimately familiar with it, but what is written about? with it, but what is written about? with it, but what is written about? Alexander Scholesen was a guy who's on Alexander Scholesen was a guy who's on Alexander Scholesen was a guy who's on the front in World War II and wrote a the front in World War II and wrote a the front in World War II and wrote a letter back criticizing Stalin or letter back criticizing Stalin or letter back criticizing Stalin or something. And of course he got checked something. And of course he got checked something. And of course he got checked and he got arrested and sent to uh Gulog and he got arrested and sent to uh Gulog and he got arrested and sent to uh Gulog which were the Soviet prison camps that which were the Soviet prison camps that which were the Soviet prison camps that you know kind of snaked their way all you know kind of snaked their way all you know kind of snaked their way all through the Soviet Union and any they through the Soviet Union and any they through the Soviet Union and any they were particularly harsh on political were particularly harsh on political were particularly harsh on political prisoners as opposed to crime prisoners. prisoners as opposed to crime prisoners. prisoners as opposed to crime prisoners. But like so they would send these guys But like so they would send these guys But like so they would send these guys out to basically death camps and have out to basically death camps and have out to basically death camps and have them mine or do the labor basically that them mine or do the labor basically that them mine or do the labor basically that kept the thing going. But they were kept the thing going. But they were kept the thing going. But they were designed to be really brutal and dark designed to be really brutal and dark designed to be really brutal and dark places, you know, they just the way the places, you know, they just the way the places, you know, they just the way the the fact that even, you know, because the fact that even, you know, because the fact that even, you know, because the political prisoners were the bottom the political prisoners were the bottom the political prisoners were the bottom of the rung, they allowed the like of the rung, they allowed the like of the rung, they allowed the like rapists and those guys to kind of rule rapists and those guys to kind of rule rapists and those guys to kind of rule the roost and set the rules. And so it the roost and set the rules. And so it the roost and set the rules. And so it this they degraded into some pretty this they degraded into some pretty this they degraded into some pretty terrible situations. And so he but this terrible situations. And so he but this terrible situations. And so he but this was all unknown basically to the west. was all unknown basically to the west. was all unknown basically to the west. And he was some kind of a brilliant And he was some kind of a brilliant And he was some kind of a brilliant mind. And he over his eight or however mind. And he over his eight or however mind. And he over his eight or however many years he was in the prison camp had many years he was in the prison camp had many years he was in the prison camp had an encyclopedic an encyclopedic an encyclopedic ability to like remember maybe he wrote ability to like remember maybe he wrote ability to like remember maybe he wrote down I don't know but all these stories down I don't know but all these stories down I don't know but all these stories of people who had been through all these of people who had been through all these of people who had been through all these situations. And when you read it, I was situations. And when you read it, I was situations. And when you read it, I was just struck by like, man, there's all just struck by like, man, there's all just struck by like, man, there's all those little paragraph about this lady. those little paragraph about this lady. those little paragraph about this lady. That lady should have her own book. Like That lady should have her own book. Like That lady should have her own book. Like that's a crazy amount of tragedy and that's a crazy amount of tragedy and that's a crazy amount of tragedy and story and and all the stuff packed in story and and all the stuff packed in story and and all the stuff packed in those books. Another example of those books. Another example of those books. Another example of something that really stood out was something that really stood out was something that really stood out was like, you know, when you get in prison, like, you know, when you get in prison, like, you know, when you get in prison, everybody says to themselves, I'm going everybody says to themselves, I'm going everybody says to themselves, I'm going to survive, you know, and then you add to survive, you know, and then you add to survive, you know, and then you add at any cost to the end almost at any cost to the end almost at any cost to the end almost nonchalantly. And then pretty soon you nonchalantly. And then pretty soon you nonchalantly. And then pretty soon you part start down this path where you're part start down this path where you're part start down this path where you're basically stomping on others to survive basically stomping on others to survive basically stomping on others to survive because you need to you know look out because you need to you know look out because you need to you know look out for number one survival of the fittest. for number one survival of the fittest. for number one survival of the fittest. And he was like and everybody basically And he was like and everybody basically And he was like and everybody basically adopted that mentality. He's like except adopted that mentality. He's like except adopted that mentality. He's like except for these corrupt Orthodox church had for these corrupt Orthodox church had for these corrupt Orthodox church had somehow created these babushkas these somehow created these babushkas these somehow created these babushkas these old ladies that didn't allow their soul old ladies that didn't allow their soul old ladies that didn't allow their soul to go down that path. And he's like they to go down that path. And he's like they to go down that path. And he's like they all died but they all were a light in all died but they all were a light in all died but they all were a light in the the the >> in the darkness on their way. and then >> in the darkness on their way. and then >> in the darkness on their way. and then kind of gets at the point of yeah the kind of gets at the point of yeah the kind of gets at the point of yeah the you could lose your life but don't lose you could lose your life but don't lose you could lose your life but don't lose your soul and like happiness can't be your soul and like happiness can't be your soul and like happiness can't be your ultimate goal that can be taken your ultimate goal that can be taken your ultimate goal that can be taken from you by a health change or by from you by a health change or by from you by a health change or by getting thrown in a goolock or by getting thrown in a goolock or by getting thrown in a goolock or by whatever it is you have to have whatever it is you have to have whatever it is you have to have something deeper and so forging a something deeper and so forging a something deeper and so forging a purpose you know purpose you know purpose you know >> I wanted to talk about the homeschooling >> I wanted to talk about the homeschooling >> I wanted to talk about the homeschooling because because because >> not that there is a single mold but >> not that there is a single mold but >> not that there is a single mold but Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> there are there are certain I suppose >> there are there are certain I suppose >> there are there are certain I suppose maybe archetypes that people might have maybe archetypes that people might have maybe archetypes that people might have in their heads as to what constitutes in their heads as to what constitutes in their heads as to what constitutes like a rugged mountain man effectively. like a rugged mountain man effectively. like a rugged mountain man effectively. And I was chatting with my girlfriend And I was chatting with my girlfriend And I was chatting with my girlfriend last night and she was like, "He doesn't last night and she was like, "He doesn't last night and she was like, "He doesn't really fit my vision of like a rugged really fit my vision of like a rugged really fit my vision of like a rugged mountain man, which is not she's not mountain man, which is not she's not mountain man, which is not she's not saying you're not rugged, but when saying you're not rugged, but when saying you're not rugged, but when you're talking about, and I'm sure we'll you're talking about, and I'm sure we'll you're talking about, and I'm sure we'll get to this, like Assyrian history and get to this, like Assyrian history and get to this, like Assyrian history and reading Gulog Archipelago as a reading Gulog Archipelago as a reading Gulog Archipelago as a 17-year-old, like these are not 17-year-old, like these are not 17-year-old, like these are not >> terribly common things that get woven >> terribly common things that get woven >> terribly common things that get woven together. together. together. >> How did your mom do the homeschooling? >> How did your mom do the homeschooling? >> How did your mom do the homeschooling? Like what did a week look like or the Like what did a week look like or the Like what did a week look like or the lesson plans? Does that does that make lesson plans? Does that does that make lesson plans? Does that does that make any sense? I'm just wondering because any sense? I'm just wondering because any sense? I'm just wondering because >> homeschooling I think for a lot of >> homeschooling I think for a lot of >> homeschooling I think for a lot of people in the United States seems like people in the United States seems like people in the United States seems like an aberration, but when you look at some an aberration, but when you look at some an aberration, but when you look at some of the people whose books we read of the people whose books we read of the people whose books we read >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> a lot of them had some equivalent of >> a lot of them had some equivalent of >> a lot of them had some equivalent of homeschooling. homeschooling. homeschooling. >> Yeah. You know what I think it kind of >> Yeah. You know what I think it kind of >> Yeah. You know what I think it kind of is is it's a you know like a public is is it's a you know like a public is is it's a you know like a public school there is a standard and school there is a standard and school there is a standard and everybody's going to be taught to that everybody's going to be taught to that everybody's going to be taught to that standard. There's kind of a minimum bar standard. There's kind of a minimum bar standard. There's kind of a minimum bar and this and that. Homeschooling allows and this and that. Homeschooling allows and this and that. Homeschooling allows for more divergent options both on the for more divergent options both on the for more divergent options both on the negative and the positive. So you can negative and the positive. So you can negative and the positive. So you can keep your kid at home and not teach him keep your kid at home and not teach him keep your kid at home and not teach him anything and go on, but also you can anything and go on, but also you can anything and go on, but also you can really focus on your kids' unique really focus on your kids' unique really focus on your kids' unique interests and abilities and they can interests and abilities and they can interests and abilities and they can really excel and develop those in a way really excel and develop those in a way really excel and develop those in a way you wouldn't in kind of the public you wouldn't in kind of the public you wouldn't in kind of the public school realm. So because I was yeah school realm. So because I was yeah school realm. So because I was yeah really into history, you know, we leaned really into history, you know, we leaned really into history, you know, we leaned into that and and I had the time to cuz into that and and I had the time to cuz into that and and I had the time to cuz honestly in a public school setting, you honestly in a public school setting, you honestly in a public school setting, you burn up so much time going into re, you burn up so much time going into re, you burn up so much time going into re, you know, just dinking around. Whereas I know, just dinking around. Whereas I know, just dinking around. Whereas I could get done with my actual academic could get done with my actual academic could get done with my actual academic schooling in just a couple hours in the schooling in just a couple hours in the schooling in just a couple hours in the morning, a few hours maybe, and then go morning, a few hours maybe, and then go morning, a few hours maybe, and then go on to my interests. And so it allows you on to my interests. And so it allows you on to my interests. And so it allows you to do that. and she kind of taught us, to do that. and she kind of taught us, to do that. and she kind of taught us, you know, initially she was really you know, initially she was really you know, initially she was really hands-on and then the older we got it hands-on and then the older we got it hands-on and then the older we got it was more hands-off where we had to be was more hands-off where we had to be was more hands-off where we had to be more self-taught and follow this more self-taught and follow this more self-taught and follow this whatever curriculum she had. And then whatever curriculum she had. And then whatever curriculum she had. And then the last two years of school, so my last the last two years of school, so my last the last two years of school, so my last junior and senior year, I went to a junior and senior year, I went to a junior and senior year, I went to a public high school and got that public high school and got that public high school and got that experience, too. experience, too. experience, too. >> Got socialized. >> Got socialized. >> Got socialized. >> Got socialized, >> Got socialized, >> Got socialized, which was an odd experience. Just which was an odd experience. Just which was an odd experience. Just kidding. kidding. kidding. I'm not sure what I think of the I'm not sure what I think of the I'm not sure what I think of the socialization, but it was socialization, but it was socialization, but it was >> prefer I was going to say prefer to be >> prefer I was going to say prefer to be >> prefer I was going to say prefer to be an indoor cat beer. Not really an indoor an indoor cat beer. Not really an indoor an indoor cat beer. Not really an indoor cat. cat. cat. >> No. So, with homeschooling though, I >> No. So, with homeschooling though, I >> No. So, with homeschooling though, I think it has a really awesome thing. You think it has a really awesome thing. You think it has a really awesome thing. You know, I think it's great that it's an know, I think it's great that it's an know, I think it's great that it's an option in the country. It is one thing option in the country. It is one thing option in the country. It is one thing if you're homeschooled, you have to if you're homeschooled, you have to if you're homeschooled, you have to focus on its weakness, which is like focus on its weakness, which is like focus on its weakness, which is like community and friends and and developing community and friends and and developing community and friends and and developing that. So, for people that think that's that. So, for people that think that's that. So, for people that think that's an interesting option, just know that an interesting option, just know that an interesting option, just know that that's its weakness. and and account for that's its weakness. and and account for that's its weakness. and and account for that in how you organize. That's what we that in how you organize. That's what we that in how you organize. That's what we do with our kids. do with our kids. do with our kids. >> How do you account for it with your >> How do you account for it with your >> How do you account for it with your kids? kids? kids? >> We're really active in >> We're really active in >> We're really active in trying to be the catalyst for community trying to be the catalyst for community trying to be the catalyst for community in our town. Like we're always ready to in our town. Like we're always ready to in our town. Like we're always ready to hang out. We got him in jiu-jitsu and we hang out. We got him in jiu-jitsu and we hang out. We got him in jiu-jitsu and we got in gymnastics and got them in all got in gymnastics and got them in all got in gymnastics and got them in all the things and then make phone calls the things and then make phone calls the things and then make phone calls foster like hiking trips with the other foster like hiking trips with the other foster like hiking trips with the other families and make sure we're like families and make sure we're like families and make sure we're like multiple times a week getting the kids multiple times a week getting the kids multiple times a week getting the kids together with their friends and stuff. together with their friends and stuff. together with their friends and stuff. You know, you just really put effort and You know, you just really put effort and You know, you just really put effort and focus on that. focus on that. focus on that. It it also strikes me that the ability It it also strikes me that the ability It it also strikes me that the ability to build community and social bonds and to build community and social bonds and to build community and social bonds and therefore socialize but not in some therefore socialize but not in some therefore socialize but not in some oddly artificial environment oddly artificial environment oddly artificial environment >> is kind of dependent on >> is kind of dependent on >> is kind of dependent on activities and maybe this is activities and maybe this is activities and maybe this is particularly true for boys I don't know particularly true for boys I don't know particularly true for boys I don't know >> but >> but >> but what I observed when I was at your house what I observed when I was at your house what I observed when I was at your house >> I just remember >> I just remember >> I just remember your kids' cousins visiting your kids' cousins visiting your kids' cousins visiting >> and they were always outside doing >> and they were always outside doing >> and they were always outside doing something, right? Which I think is something, right? Which I think is something, right? Which I think is important, right? They're not just important, right? They're not just important, right? They're not just sitting around talking. That's not sitting around talking. That's not sitting around talking. That's not actually natural for most humans, actually natural for most humans, actually natural for most humans, including adults, to just do that all including adults, to just do that all including adults, to just do that all the time. the time. the time. >> There were shared activities and then >> There were shared activities and then >> There were shared activities and then when the cousins left, I guess it was when the cousins left, I guess it was when the cousins left, I guess it was your middle child who was just crying. your middle child who was just crying. your middle child who was just crying. It was so it was so adorable, It was so it was so adorable, It was so it was so adorable, >> but such heartfelt deep connections. >> but such heartfelt deep connections. >> but such heartfelt deep connections. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And similarly, it's like when we were >> And similarly, it's like when we were >> And similarly, it's like when we were out in the woods and we were sitting out in the woods and we were sitting out in the woods and we were sitting around, your brother was there. around, your brother was there. around, your brother was there. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Maybe had a thing or two to do with the >> Maybe had a thing or two to do with the >> Maybe had a thing or two to do with the jiu-jitsu influence. I don't know. jiu-jitsu influence. I don't know. jiu-jitsu influence. I don't know. Another reason to never start fights. Another reason to never start fights. Another reason to never start fights. Like, you would not see him and be like, Like, you would not see him and be like, Like, you would not see him and be like, "I'm terrified of that guy." And yet, he "I'm terrified of that guy." And yet, he "I'm terrified of that guy." And yet, he could absolutely bend you into a pretzel could absolutely bend you into a pretzel could absolutely bend you into a pretzel and and cause lots of orthopedic and and cause lots of orthopedic and and cause lots of orthopedic lifelong problems. lifelong problems. lifelong problems. >> So, we're out there. It was your >> So, we're out there. It was your >> So, we're out there. It was your brother, couple of llamas, one with a brother, couple of llamas, one with a brother, couple of llamas, one with a slightly lopsided head, prone to falling slightly lopsided head, prone to falling slightly lopsided head, prone to falling over. It's a long story. And then over. It's a long story. And then over. It's a long story. And then just a few guys, right? Two of my close just a few guys, right? Two of my close just a few guys, right? Two of my close friends, and we're all around a fire. friends, and we're all around a fire. friends, and we're all around a fire. And I can't remember who said it. Maybe And I can't remember who said it. Maybe And I can't remember who said it. Maybe it was your brother. Maybe it was Mike. it was your brother. Maybe it was Mike. it was your brother. Maybe it was Mike. But oh, I get it. I see why. This is But oh, I get it. I see why. This is But oh, I get it. I see why. This is again, not saying this is a purely again, not saying this is a purely again, not saying this is a purely gendered thing, but this is what he said gendered thing, but this is what he said gendered thing, but this is what he said cuz it was all guys. Yeah, cuz it was all guys. Yeah, cuz it was all guys. Yeah, >> Mike probably. And he said, >> Mike probably. And he said, >> Mike probably. And he said, >> "No, it was uh Matt." >> "No, it was uh Matt." >> "No, it was uh Matt." >> It was Matt. Okay. Who said, >> It was Matt. Okay. Who said, >> It was Matt. Okay. Who said, >> "Now I see why guys like fires so much >> "Now I see why guys like fires so much >> "Now I see why guys like fires so much because they can connect and talk because they can connect and talk because they can connect and talk without making eye contact. You can just without making eye contact. You can just without making eye contact. You can just look at the fire having something that look at the fire having something that look at the fire having something that is like ancillary." is like ancillary." is like ancillary." >> I thought it was a a fun observation. >> I thought it was a a fun observation. >> I thought it was a a fun observation. I've paid a little more attention to it I've paid a little more attention to it I've paid a little more attention to it ever since. But it does just give you ever since. But it does just give you ever since. But it does just give you something a third something a third something a third party to We should have a little start a party to We should have a little start a party to We should have a little start a little fire on the table here. No, but little fire on the table here. No, but little fire on the table here. No, but the uh um for sure having a common the uh um for sure having a common the uh um for sure having a common activity like that and we are fortunate activity like that and we are fortunate activity like that and we are fortunate enough to just be able to to live in a enough to just be able to to live in a enough to just be able to to live in a place that's really conducive to and place that's really conducive to and place that's really conducive to and sending the kids outside and it's sending the kids outside and it's sending the kids outside and it's something I've obviously tried to foster something I've obviously tried to foster something I've obviously tried to foster in them. So, they do spend a lot of time in them. So, they do spend a lot of time in them. So, they do spend a lot of time just running around and being creative just running around and being creative just running around and being creative and you know they don't have one thing and you know they don't have one thing and you know they don't have one thing I've avoided a bit is phones and stuff I've avoided a bit is phones and stuff I've avoided a bit is phones and stuff like that. And I think it is fairly like that. And I think it is fairly like that. And I think it is fairly lowhanging fruit because I mean you can lowhanging fruit because I mean you can lowhanging fruit because I mean you can see how they affect us in our everyday see how they affect us in our everyday see how they affect us in our everyday life. We get distracted and we get life. We get distracted and we get life. We get distracted and we get >> kind of man disoriented with them I >> kind of man disoriented with them I >> kind of man disoriented with them I would say. And and with kids it's even would say. And and with kids it's even would say. And and with kids it's even so much more cute. So they have to go so much more cute. So they have to go so much more cute. So they have to go out and run around and play and have out and run around and play and have out and run around and play and have fun. Well, well, you've also engineered fun. Well, well, you've also engineered fun. Well, well, you've also engineered this. I mean, it's a very fancy term to this. I mean, it's a very fancy term to this. I mean, it's a very fancy term to use, but like you've designed that into use, but like you've designed that into use, but like you've designed that into your life as a deliberate your life as a deliberate your life as a deliberate >> environment and place. You could have >> environment and place. You could have >> environment and place. You could have been in a lot of other places been in a lot of other places been in a lot of other places >> and >> and >> and >> as for instance, I'm training this very >> as for instance, I'm training this very >> as for instance, I'm training this very large puppy right now, large puppy right now, large puppy right now, >> although I think I'm being trained a lot >> although I think I'm being trained a lot >> although I think I'm being trained a lot more probably. In any case, very more probably. In any case, very more probably. In any case, very different personality from my other dog. different personality from my other dog. different personality from my other dog. probably mixed with Anatolian Shepherd, probably mixed with Anatolian Shepherd, probably mixed with Anatolian Shepherd, very stubborn. very stubborn. very stubborn. And And And when you're trying to train a dog like when you're trying to train a dog like when you're trying to train a dog like that, I remember dog trainer said to me, that, I remember dog trainer said to me, that, I remember dog trainer said to me, if you're using treats as an example, if you're using treats as an example, if you're using treats as an example, right, you have to tip with 20s because right, you have to tip with 20s because right, you have to tip with 20s because the bar is crowded, the bar is crowded, the bar is crowded, >> right? There are a lot of distractions. >> right? There are a lot of distractions. >> right? There are a lot of distractions. >> Mh. >> Mh. >> Mh. >> And >> And >> And >> when I think about kids, and of course I >> when I think about kids, and of course I >> when I think about kids, and of course I do not have kids yet. I hope to in the do not have kids yet. I hope to in the do not have kids yet. I hope to in the very near future. very near future. very near future. >> Cool. >> Cool. >> Cool. But if you're sitting in an apartment in But if you're sitting in an apartment in But if you're sitting in an apartment in the city and you're like, "Kids, you the city and you're like, "Kids, you the city and you're like, "Kids, you can't use your phone." can't use your phone." can't use your phone." >> What are you offering them as an >> What are you offering them as an >> What are you offering them as an alternative, alternative, alternative, >> right? It's like, what is the >> right? It's like, what is the >> right? It's like, what is the alternative that is more compelling alternative that is more compelling alternative that is more compelling >> and you've deliberately put yourself in >> and you've deliberately put yourself in >> and you've deliberately put yourself in an environment where there's you have an environment where there's you have an environment where there's you have quite a lot to choose from quite a lot to choose from quite a lot to choose from >> and that has been intentional. And >> and that has been intentional. And >> and that has been intentional. And obviously that is probably more obviously that is probably more obviously that is probably more difficult if you have a small apartment difficult if you have a small apartment difficult if you have a small apartment and you live in a city, you know, I and you live in a city, you know, I and you live in a city, you know, I imagine it takes a lot more hands-on imagine it takes a lot more hands-on imagine it takes a lot more hands-on going to the park or you know there's a going to the park or you know there's a going to the park or you know there's a lot of creative outlets in learning to lot of creative outlets in learning to lot of creative outlets in learning to paint, learning an instrument, learning paint, learning an instrument, learning paint, learning an instrument, learning a this or that that may scratch that a this or that that may scratch that a this or that that may scratch that itch. For me, I did have it as a high itch. For me, I did have it as a high itch. For me, I did have it as a high priority to let the outdoors be a big priority to let the outdoors be a big priority to let the outdoors be a big part of our life. So, I moved where that part of our life. So, I moved where that part of our life. So, I moved where that was possible and I have structured our was possible and I have structured our was possible and I have structured our life such I got the llamas, you know, life such I got the llamas, you know, life such I got the llamas, you know, we're joking about initially so that I we're joking about initially so that I we're joking about initially so that I could take the family out on one two could take the family out on one two could take the family out on one two week long trips rather than because I week long trips rather than because I week long trips rather than because I just couldn't carry enough gear to take just couldn't carry enough gear to take just couldn't carry enough gear to take them out for shorter. So, it's been them out for shorter. So, it's been them out for shorter. So, it's been really intentional and it's been great really intentional and it's been great really intentional and it's been great and it's something to work out in a more and it's something to work out in a more and it's something to work out in a more urban context, but I guess it's it's not urban context, but I guess it's it's not urban context, but I guess it's it's not where I'm at. where I'm at. where I'm at. >> Llamas, people might be like, llamas, >> Llamas, people might be like, llamas, >> Llamas, people might be like, llamas, really? Are we in the Andes? What's really? Are we in the Andes? What's really? Are we in the Andes? What's going on? Why llamas instead of instead going on? Why llamas instead of instead going on? Why llamas instead of instead of horses? of horses? of horses? >> You know, the reindeer history. Now, >> You know, the reindeer history. Now, >> You know, the reindeer history. Now, when I when I first got back from when I when I first got back from when I when I first got back from Russia, my I thought it would be amazing Russia, my I thought it would be amazing Russia, my I thought it would be amazing to pack with reindeer in America. So, I to pack with reindeer in America. So, I to pack with reindeer in America. So, I lived in Idaho and there was a law lived in Idaho and there was a law lived in Idaho and there was a law against owning reindeer north of a against owning reindeer north of a against owning reindeer north of a certain border. I contacted my certain border. I contacted my certain border. I contacted my legislature or whatever there and oddly legislature or whatever there and oddly legislature or whatever there and oddly responsive, pretty soon I was in responsive, pretty soon I was in responsive, pretty soon I was in meetings at the government with the meetings at the government with the meetings at the government with the government officials and they don't government officials and they don't government officials and they don't overturn the law. So, now you can own overturn the law. So, now you can own overturn the law. So, now you can own reindeer in North Idaho. Unfortunately, reindeer in North Idaho. Unfortunately, reindeer in North Idaho. Unfortunately, part of that was they had to be in a part of that was they had to be in a part of that was they had to be in a high fence. So, it kind of ruined the high fence. So, it kind of ruined the high fence. So, it kind of ruined the ability of what I was envisioning to ability of what I was envisioning to ability of what I was envisioning to like like like >> So, you couldn't you couldn't pack them >> So, you couldn't you couldn't pack them >> So, you couldn't you couldn't pack them out? out? out? >> Yeah. I couldn't like load them full of >> Yeah. I couldn't like load them full of >> Yeah. I couldn't like load them full of gear and pack up in the woods. So, you gear and pack up in the woods. So, you gear and pack up in the woods. So, you know, then your only other options are know, then your only other options are know, then your only other options are horses and llamas. And I honestly just horses and llamas. And I honestly just horses and llamas. And I honestly just hadn't grown up with horses. And it's hadn't grown up with horses. And it's hadn't grown up with horses. And it's quite a learning curve on them. They're quite a learning curve on them. They're quite a learning curve on them. They're dangerous. You know, everybody that does dangerous. You know, everybody that does dangerous. You know, everybody that does a lot with horses has some kind of a lot with horses has some kind of a lot with horses has some kind of stories of getting hurt on them. stories of getting hurt on them. stories of getting hurt on them. >> For people who have no idea, how big how >> For people who have no idea, how big how >> For people who have no idea, how big how big are llamas? big are llamas? big are llamas? >> They're about 350 lbs. >> They're about 350 lbs. >> They're about 350 lbs. >> They're a lot smaller. >> They're a lot smaller. >> They're a lot smaller. >> They're a lot smaller. >> They're a lot smaller. >> They're a lot smaller. >> They're a lot smaller. And I'm sure >> They're a lot smaller. And I'm sure >> They're a lot smaller. And I'm sure there are cases where they might, but there are cases where they might, but there are cases where they might, but they tend not to kick. they tend not to kick. they tend not to kick. >> Yeah, they don't. They're very like >> Yeah, they don't. They're very like >> Yeah, they don't. They're very like safe. And you can have like mean angry safe. And you can have like mean angry safe. And you can have like mean angry llamas, of course, like you can have a llamas, of course, like you can have a llamas, of course, like you can have a bad bitey dog, but you know, if you have bad bitey dog, but you know, if you have bad bitey dog, but you know, if you have a good llama, they're oddly chill a good llama, they're oddly chill a good llama, they're oddly chill animals. You go up on the woods and they animals. You go up on the woods and they animals. You go up on the woods and they don't like tear up the ground. They sit don't like tear up the ground. They sit don't like tear up the ground. They sit there quietly. The kids can ride them. there quietly. The kids can ride them. there quietly. The kids can ride them. So, in that way, they're quite nice for So, in that way, they're quite nice for So, in that way, they're quite nice for kids. Obviously, adults can't, but they kids. Obviously, adults can't, but they kids. Obviously, adults can't, but they can pack the gear and I can walk without can pack the gear and I can walk without can pack the gear and I can walk without gear as long as I want to. So, there's gear as long as I want to. So, there's gear as long as I want to. So, there's great advantages of horses and I love great advantages of horses and I love great advantages of horses and I love them. But for me, the low maintenance of them. But for me, the low maintenance of them. But for me, the low maintenance of a the low maintenance and low risk of a a the low maintenance and low risk of a a the low maintenance and low risk of a llama just I was like, well, if I can't llama just I was like, well, if I can't llama just I was like, well, if I can't have reindeer, I guess that's the next have reindeer, I guess that's the next have reindeer, I guess that's the next closest thing. So, closest thing. So, closest thing. So, >> are there any terrain >> are there any terrain >> are there any terrain or surefootedness advantages to llamas? or surefootedness advantages to llamas? or surefootedness advantages to llamas? I'm thinking about for instance like I'm thinking about for instance like I'm thinking about for instance like horses versus donkeys, right? horses versus donkeys, right? horses versus donkeys, right? >> Like it seems like there are some >> Like it seems like there are some >> Like it seems like there are some advantages of using advantages of using advantages of using >> donkeys over horses. Everybody should >> donkeys over horses. Everybody should >> donkeys over horses. Everybody should follow follow follow Hobo Jordan on Instagram because you Hobo Jordan on Instagram because you Hobo Jordan on Instagram because you have photos of the aftermath of some have photos of the aftermath of some have photos of the aftermath of some horses going horses going horses going >> cartwheeling down an incline. >> cartwheeling down an incline. >> cartwheeling down an incline. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Don't want to be caught up in that. >> Don't want to be caught up in that. >> Don't want to be caught up in that. >> Yeah. It's easy to get killed, I think. >> Yeah. It's easy to get killed, I think. >> Yeah. It's easy to get killed, I think. Yeah. This is a common historical Yeah. This is a common historical Yeah. This is a common historical >> theme. Someone so and so got bucked off >> theme. Someone so and so got bucked off >> theme. Someone so and so got bucked off the horse and the fourth crusade ended the horse and the fourth crusade ended the horse and the fourth crusade ended or whatever. or whatever. or whatever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But where were we going? >> But where were we going? >> But where were we going? >> Advantages of llamas on terrain, right? >> Advantages of llamas on terrain, right? >> Advantages of llamas on terrain, right? >> On terrain. Yeah. So they have so you >> On terrain. Yeah. So they have so you >> On terrain. Yeah. So they have so you know like with a horse you have a metal know like with a horse you have a metal know like with a horse you have a metal shoe on the bottom and metal shoe on the bottom and metal shoe on the bottom and metal particularly on rock is pretty slippery particularly on rock is pretty slippery particularly on rock is pretty slippery >> slippery and so you'll do a lot of >> slippery and so you'll do a lot of >> slippery and so you'll do a lot of slipping and sliding on rocks. The slipping and sliding on rocks. The slipping and sliding on rocks. The llamas have a soft pad with two little llamas have a soft pad with two little llamas have a soft pad with two little claws. They look like little raptor claws. They look like little raptor claws. They look like little raptor claws in the front and so it's actually claws in the front and so it's actually claws in the front and so it's actually quite interesting to see how they work. quite interesting to see how they work. quite interesting to see how they work. >> They're very small. Yeah, they're small >> They're very small. Yeah, they're small >> They're very small. Yeah, they're small little paws, but they you can stick on little paws, but they you can stick on little paws, but they you can stick on like a wet rock and that soft pad will like a wet rock and that soft pad will like a wet rock and that soft pad will grip and they can walk up and down the grip and they can walk up and down the grip and they can walk up and down the rocks. Or if you're in mud or soft dirt, rocks. Or if you're in mud or soft dirt, rocks. Or if you're in mud or soft dirt, you see those two little front claws you see those two little front claws you see those two little front claws digging like a raptor claw and they can digging like a raptor claw and they can digging like a raptor claw and they can climb up that. In that way, the terrain climb up that. In that way, the terrain climb up that. In that way, the terrain issues are pretty great. The other pack issues are pretty great. The other pack issues are pretty great. The other pack animal people use is goats. And those animal people use is goats. And those animal people use is goats. And those are nice cuz you can really go over are nice cuz you can really go over are nice cuz you can really go over boulders and like they can hop from this boulders and like they can hop from this boulders and like they can hop from this to that. They're somewhere in between a to that. They're somewhere in between a to that. They're somewhere in between a horse and a goat as far as their horse and a goat as far as their horse and a goat as far as their off-roading abilities. But off-roading abilities. But off-roading abilities. But >> sounds like you would have to have a >> sounds like you would have to have a >> sounds like you would have to have a whole caravan of goats for carrying whole caravan of goats for carrying whole caravan of goats for carrying capacity. capacity. capacity. >> And goats also are always with you. Like >> And goats also are always with you. Like >> And goats also are always with you. Like with a llama, I can tie them up and go with a llama, I can tie them up and go with a llama, I can tie them up and go hike up this way and that way. The goats hike up this way and that way. The goats hike up this way and that way. The goats are always with you. You can't tie them are always with you. You can't tie them are always with you. You can't tie them up and you can't leave them anywhere. up and you can't leave them anywhere. up and you can't leave them anywhere. Chaos will ensue. But they're they're Chaos will ensue. But they're they're Chaos will ensue. But they're they're funny little critters, but they weren't funny little critters, but they weren't funny little critters, but they weren't my cup of tea. my cup of tea. my cup of tea. >> Let's hop to purpose, right? this which >> Let's hop to purpose, right? this which >> Let's hop to purpose, right? this which I I feel like I I feel like I I feel like >> looking back at your family history >> looking back at your family history >> looking back at your family history looking back and is it fair just to tie looking back and is it fair just to tie looking back and is it fair just to tie up one loose end with Gulag Archipelago up one loose end with Gulag Archipelago up one loose end with Gulag Archipelago is it how analogous is it to man's is it how analogous is it to man's is it how analogous is it to man's search for meaning by Victor Frankle search for meaning by Victor Frankle search for meaning by Victor Frankle >> it's real similar I think it's like the >> it's real similar I think it's like the >> it's real similar I think it's like the thicker version of that you know it's thicker version of that you know it's thicker version of that you know it's like gulag archipelago light would be like gulag archipelago light would be like gulag archipelago light would be that man's search for meaning that man's search for meaning that man's search for meaning >> got it okay >> got it okay >> got it okay >> could you give us >> could you give us >> could you give us a bit of your family history and you can a bit of your family history and you can a bit of your family history and you can go back to your grandmother. You could go back to your grandmother. You could go back to your grandmother. You could kind of start wherever you want. The the kind of start wherever you want. The the kind of start wherever you want. The the purpose specifically made me think of purpose specifically made me think of purpose specifically made me think of your dad and the reinvention of purpose. your dad and the reinvention of purpose. your dad and the reinvention of purpose. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which I think >> Which I think >> Which I think >> is a pressing need for a lot of people >> is a pressing need for a lot of people >> is a pressing need for a lot of people in a fastmoving modern environment where in a fastmoving modern environment where in a fastmoving modern environment where they feel like they're on very they feel like they're on very they feel like they're on very >> unstable ground perhaps in a lot of >> unstable ground perhaps in a lot of >> unstable ground perhaps in a lot of ways. ways. ways. >> But let's go back. You know, I threw out >> But let's go back. You know, I threw out >> But let's go back. You know, I threw out this term Assyrian, but most people this term Assyrian, but most people this term Assyrian, but most people don't. It's not a familiar word. don't. It's not a familiar word. don't. It's not a familiar word. >> I guess you would almost call it the >> I guess you would almost call it the >> I guess you would almost call it the indigenous people of the Middle East, indigenous people of the Middle East, indigenous people of the Middle East, you know, before kind of the Arab you know, before kind of the Arab you know, before kind of the Arab takeovers and stuff were Aramaic takeovers and stuff were Aramaic takeovers and stuff were Aramaic speaking Assyrians is what they're speaking Assyrians is what they're speaking Assyrians is what they're called. So that's what my family was. called. So that's what my family was. called. So that's what my family was. They lived in northwestern Iran, kind of They lived in northwestern Iran, kind of They lived in northwestern Iran, kind of near a lake called Lake Heria. And near a lake called Lake Heria. And near a lake called Lake Heria. And during the chaos of World War I, you during the chaos of World War I, you during the chaos of World War I, you know, there had been the Ottoman Empire know, there had been the Ottoman Empire know, there had been the Ottoman Empire was crumbling and and all these people was crumbling and and all these people was crumbling and and all these people who had been under the Ottoman like who had been under the Ottoman like who had been under the Ottoman like colonial yoke were seeking out their colonial yoke were seeking out their colonial yoke were seeking out their independence and their freedom and independence and their freedom and independence and their freedom and breaking off. breaking off. breaking off. And in all that chaos, I think what And in all that chaos, I think what And in all that chaos, I think what happened was they it was an easy time to happened was they it was an easy time to happened was they it was an easy time to get rid of a entire people group. You get rid of a entire people group. You get rid of a entire people group. You know, like actually Anatolia, you have know, like actually Anatolia, you have know, like actually Anatolia, you have an Anatolian shepherd was a pretty an Anatolian shepherd was a pretty an Anatolian shepherd was a pretty diverse place up until then. After that diverse place up until then. After that diverse place up until then. After that time, it was basically just Turks and time, it was basically just Turks and time, it was basically just Turks and Kurds left, you know, like the the Kurds left, you know, like the the Kurds left, you know, like the the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Armenians Greeks, the Assyrians, the Armenians Greeks, the Assyrians, the Armenians kind of got all ran out of there. kind of got all ran out of there. kind of got all ran out of there. >> What were the reasons for running them >> What were the reasons for running them >> What were the reasons for running them out? out? out? >> It's complicated. It's not history is >> It's complicated. It's not history is >> It's complicated. It's not history is not black and white. they were not black and white. they were not black and white. they were minorities because those groups were minorities because those groups were minorities because those groups were Christian overall living in you know Christian overall living in you know Christian overall living in you know under the Ottoman umbrella and so under the Ottoman umbrella and so under the Ottoman umbrella and so sporadically at times they would live sporadically at times they would live sporadically at times they would live okay and then at times there would be okay and then at times there would be okay and then at times there would be big massacres and over the course of big massacres and over the course of big massacres and over the course of centuries there were just constant it centuries there were just constant it centuries there were just constant it wasn't a pleasant way to live I guess wasn't a pleasant way to live I guess wasn't a pleasant way to live I guess would be the quick way to put it and so would be the quick way to put it and so would be the quick way to put it and so there was sporadic massacres kind of all there was sporadic massacres kind of all there was sporadic massacres kind of all the time and then so when World War I the time and then so when World War I the time and then so when World War I happened you couldn't and blame them for happened you couldn't and blame them for happened you couldn't and blame them for wanting independence, you know. And so wanting independence, you know. And so wanting independence, you know. And so there were better and worse people. A there were better and worse people. A there were better and worse people. A lot of a lot of those Christian lot of a lot of those Christian lot of a lot of those Christian minorities joined with the British or minorities joined with the British or minorities joined with the British or the Russians to try to forge out their the Russians to try to forge out their the Russians to try to forge out their new nation states that were forming from new nation states that were forming from new nation states that were forming from the crumbling Ottoman Empire. And at the the crumbling Ottoman Empire. And at the the crumbling Ottoman Empire. And at the same time, nationalism was really rising same time, nationalism was really rising same time, nationalism was really rising and there was a big Turkey for the Turks and there was a big Turkey for the Turks and there was a big Turkey for the Turks movement, like we don't want other movement, like we don't want other movement, like we don't want other people here. And that was ultimately the people here. And that was ultimately the people here. And that was ultimately the movement with the most power. And so movement with the most power. And so movement with the most power. And so when the Russian Empire collapsed from when the Russian Empire collapsed from when the Russian Empire collapsed from the Bolevik revolution, they kind of the Bolevik revolution, they kind of the Bolevik revolution, they kind of left a vacuum in these areas that had left a vacuum in these areas that had left a vacuum in these areas that had they had kind of provided a bit of a they had kind of provided a bit of a they had kind of provided a bit of a defense for. And because of that, you defense for. And because of that, you defense for. And because of that, you know, crazy nationalist fervor that was know, crazy nationalist fervor that was know, crazy nationalist fervor that was going on, the Turks decided that they going on, the Turks decided that they going on, the Turks decided that they could just they would just kill or expel could just they would just kill or expel could just they would just kill or expel all the minorities who, of course, some all the minorities who, of course, some all the minorities who, of course, some of them had been problematic and that of them had been problematic and that of them had been problematic and that there was like these freedom movements there was like these freedom movements there was like these freedom movements everywhere, but collective punishment at everywhere, but collective punishment at everywhere, but collective punishment at a massive scale. And obviously my a massive scale. And obviously my a massive scale. And obviously my grandparents were kind of out of it grandparents were kind of out of it grandparents were kind of out of it because they were in Iran, but when the because they were in Iran, but when the because they were in Iran, but when the Russian presence left there, the Turks Russian presence left there, the Turks Russian presence left there, the Turks went into there too. And it was went into there too. And it was went into there too. And it was basically at that point it was just kind basically at that point it was just kind basically at that point it was just kind of a uncontrolled well ultimately would of a uncontrolled well ultimately would of a uncontrolled well ultimately would be a genocide. It killed like 750,000 be a genocide. It killed like 750,000 be a genocide. It killed like 750,000 Assyrians and a million plus Armenians Assyrians and a million plus Armenians Assyrians and a million plus Armenians and you know it was quite a disaster. My and you know it was quite a disaster. My and you know it was quite a disaster. My family was so my grandma and grandpa family was so my grandma and grandpa family was so my grandma and grandpa both of them would ultimately be be for both of them would ultimately be be for both of them would ultimately be be for all practical purposes sole survivors all practical purposes sole survivors all practical purposes sole survivors like their families were completely like their families were completely like their families were completely wiped out. My grandpa was in a village wiped out. My grandpa was in a village wiped out. My grandpa was in a village when they were coming in and burning it when they were coming in and burning it when they were coming in and burning it down. And his dad was in a wheelchair down. And his dad was in a wheelchair down. And his dad was in a wheelchair basically put a money belt on him and basically put a money belt on him and basically put a money belt on him and told him just he was 17 told him just told him just he was 17 told him just told him just he was 17 told him just run and don't look back. And he looked run and don't look back. And he looked run and don't look back. And he looked back to see his dad's house on fire, you back to see his dad's house on fire, you back to see his dad's house on fire, you know, with his dad in it. He never knew know, with his dad in it. He never knew know, with his dad in it. He never knew what his sister happened to his sister. what his sister happened to his sister. what his sister happened to his sister. Ended up getting taken in by some Jesuit Ended up getting taken in by some Jesuit Ended up getting taken in by some Jesuit priests and kind of raised in there. And priests and kind of raised in there. And priests and kind of raised in there. And then my grandma had a different story then my grandma had a different story then my grandma had a different story where they the Ottoman Empire was still where they the Ottoman Empire was still where they the Ottoman Empire was still kind of conscious of like trying to put kind of conscious of like trying to put kind of conscious of like trying to put on a image to the world. And so instead on a image to the world. And so instead on a image to the world. And so instead of I mean there was plenty of just of I mean there was plenty of just of I mean there was plenty of just straight up massacres, but instead of straight up massacres, but instead of straight up massacres, but instead of they they called them deportations, but they they called them deportations, but they they called them deportations, but they were kind of deportations to they were kind of deportations to they were kind of deportations to nowhere. So they just drove people out nowhere. So they just drove people out nowhere. So they just drove people out into the desert and marched them around into the desert and marched them around into the desert and marched them around until they died. And so my grandma and until they died. And so my grandma and until they died. And so my grandma and she had seven siblings and a mom, her she had seven siblings and a mom, her she had seven siblings and a mom, her dad was taken off to be shot and then dad was taken off to be shot and then dad was taken off to be shot and then they just drove them around in the they just drove them around in the they just drove them around in the desert until all but mom, my desert until all but mom, my desert until all but mom, my great-grandmother, and one one sister of great-grandmother, and one one sister of great-grandmother, and one one sister of my grandma were left. You know, the baby my grandma were left. You know, the baby my grandma were left. You know, the baby just had died and the mom fell down was just had died and the mom fell down was just had died and the mom fell down was like, I just can't go on anymore. and my like, I just can't go on anymore. and my like, I just can't go on anymore. and my shalom, my grandma and Shushan like shalom, my grandma and Shushan like shalom, my grandma and Shushan like picked her up and like we got to keep picked her up and like we got to keep picked her up and like we got to keep going. At some point there they split going. At some point there they split going. At some point there they split off from the guards or whatever stumbled off from the guards or whatever stumbled off from the guards or whatever stumbled through and were were actually ended up through and were were actually ended up through and were were actually ended up being rescued by British military like being rescued by British military like being rescued by British military like outpost type thing. I don't know. And outpost type thing. I don't know. And outpost type thing. I don't know. And then they were taken to a refugee camp. then they were taken to a refugee camp. then they were taken to a refugee camp. Mom and the sister never recovered Mom and the sister never recovered Mom and the sister never recovered really from just the trauma. And then really from just the trauma. And then really from just the trauma. And then grandma grandma grandma was sent to Baghdad and raised in a was sent to Baghdad and raised in a was sent to Baghdad and raised in a refugee camp. So these two people had refugee camp. So these two people had refugee camp. So these two people had kind of lost everything. Even their like kind of lost everything. Even their like kind of lost everything. Even their like I mean the Assyrian I mean the Assyrian I mean the Assyrian people nation kind of almost vanished. people nation kind of almost vanished. people nation kind of almost vanished. Like there's Aramaic is what they speak. Like there's Aramaic is what they speak. Like there's Aramaic is what they speak. It's like almost a gone language now. It's like almost a gone language now. It's like almost a gone language now. You know it's very just small fragments You know it's very just small fragments You know it's very just small fragments of it hanging on. So they had kind of of it hanging on. So they had kind of of it hanging on. So they had kind of lost everything and then they met in lost everything and then they met in lost everything and then they met in Baghdad somehow and got married, Baghdad somehow and got married, Baghdad somehow and got married, immigrated to France right before World immigrated to France right before World immigrated to France right before World War II and then the Nazi invasion War II and then the Nazi invasion War II and then the Nazi invasion happened and there was a whole they have happened and there was a whole they have happened and there was a whole they have a whole series of stories from you know a whole series of stories from you know a whole series of stories from you know kind of the deprivation at that time. kind of the deprivation at that time. kind of the deprivation at that time. they were already poor immigrants they were already poor immigrants they were already poor immigrants arriving there and then to like go arriving there and then to like go arriving there and then to like go through that whole Nazi occupation and through that whole Nazi occupation and through that whole Nazi occupation and then and then they eventually made it to then and then they eventually made it to then and then they eventually made it to America and actually died not long America and actually died not long America and actually died not long after. So my dad was 10 when his parents after. So my dad was 10 when his parents after. So my dad was 10 when his parents died and was raised by his sisters. But died and was raised by his sisters. But died and was raised by his sisters. But what what I find something to be that I what what I find something to be that I what what I find something to be that I think about a lot is that they had they think about a lot is that they had they think about a lot is that they had they ended up having 11 kids, you know, so ended up having 11 kids, you know, so ended up having 11 kids, you know, so they had a really big family they had a really big family they had a really big family and I would go to all these family and I would go to all these family and I would go to all these family reunions with my aunts and uncles and my reunions with my aunts and uncles and my reunions with my aunts and uncles and my dad and this and that and they were just dad and this and that and they were just dad and this and that and they were just the most joyful fun, you know, like so the most joyful fun, you know, like so the most joyful fun, you know, like so much love and joy and family and all much love and joy and family and all much love and joy and family and all this. It was a real bright spot in my this. It was a real bright spot in my this. It was a real bright spot in my childhood. And then was just that Jonas childhood. And then was just that Jonas childhood. And then was just that Jonas family stuff and then you almost take it family stuff and then you almost take it family stuff and then you almost take it for granted until you step back and for granted until you step back and for granted until you step back and you're like wait a second we're one you're like wait a second we're one you're like wait a second we're one generation from like this is my grandma generation from like this is my grandma generation from like this is my grandma and her grandpa had their entire and her grandpa had their entire and her grandpa had their entire families wiped out and lost their whole families wiped out and lost their whole families wiped out and lost their whole culture and had to immigrate and give up culture and had to immigrate and give up culture and had to immigrate and give up everything and then had to do that everything and then had to do that everything and then had to do that again. But somehow they've raised like a again. But somehow they've raised like a again. But somehow they've raised like a really joyful family like a full of really joyful family like a full of really joyful family like a full of people and our like conversations were people and our like conversations were people and our like conversations were never about like those people did that never about like those people did that never about like those people did that to us and like this is what happened you to us and like this is what happened you to us and like this is what happened you know it was never hate was never the know it was never hate was never the know it was never hate was never the common language. It was always love and common language. It was always love and common language. It was always love and family and now there's like some old family and now there's like some old family and now there's like some old grainy videos of grandma and grandpa and grainy videos of grandma and grandpa and grainy videos of grandma and grandpa and and they're just laughing and eat you and they're just laughing and eat you and they're just laughing and eat you know they've raised rabbits and eating know they've raised rabbits and eating know they've raised rabbits and eating rabbit around the table and laughing and rabbit around the table and laughing and rabbit around the table and laughing and you think wow that's so interesting. I you think wow that's so interesting. I you think wow that's so interesting. I don't know what cross they bore. And I don't know what cross they bore. And I don't know what cross they bore. And I know my dad said his dad used to always know my dad said his dad used to always know my dad said his dad used to always sit in his closet and pray. And he's sit in his closet and pray. And he's sit in his closet and pray. And he's like, like, like, >> you know, I'm sure he had like a lot to >> you know, I'm sure he had like a lot to >> you know, I'm sure he had like a lot to deal with, but they didn't pass it down deal with, but they didn't pass it down deal with, but they didn't pass it down one generation, which is impressive. And one generation, which is impressive. And one generation, which is impressive. And not only did they not pass it down, they not only did they not pass it down, they not only did they not pass it down, they built and put into the world something built and put into the world something built and put into the world something really beautiful, which is my family, really beautiful, which is my family, really beautiful, which is my family, including my dad. And so leading into including my dad. And so leading into including my dad. And so leading into what you're talking about, dad, it's what you're talking about, dad, it's what you're talking about, dad, it's something that I think about regularly something that I think about regularly something that I think about regularly more than you would think because maybe more than you would think because maybe more than you would think because maybe I have a history into orientation, but I have a history into orientation, but I have a history into orientation, but just the fact that that's a legacy that just the fact that that's a legacy that just the fact that that's a legacy that I have that we all have, you know, I have that we all have, you know, I have that we all have, you know, shared humanity, but what a thing to be shared humanity, but what a thing to be shared humanity, but what a thing to be able to live up to. Like I don't have to able to live up to. Like I don't have to able to live up to. Like I don't have to be defined by the hardship and the be defined by the hardship and the be defined by the hardship and the tragedy in the negative way. It's like tragedy in the negative way. It's like tragedy in the negative way. It's like you can see how other people have risen you can see how other people have risen you can see how other people have risen to that occasion and come out of it and to that occasion and come out of it and to that occasion and come out of it and created. And so when I find myself in a created. And so when I find myself in a created. And so when I find myself in a hard situation in the past or now or hard situation in the past or now or hard situation in the past or now or whatever, you know, you can you have whatever, you know, you can you have whatever, you know, you can you have that to look at, hang on to that to look at, hang on to that to look at, hang on to >> having a choice. >> having a choice. >> having a choice. >> Yep. You have a choice of how to relate >> Yep. You have a choice of how to relate >> Yep. You have a choice of how to relate to it. It could I mean there were so to it. It could I mean there were so to it. It could I mean there were so many people and there's just like you many people and there's just like you many people and there's just like you have every right to be fully traumatized have every right to be fully traumatized have every right to be fully traumatized and never recover. You know what I mean? and never recover. You know what I mean? and never recover. You know what I mean? Like I there's no judgment on my front Like I there's no judgment on my front Like I there's no judgment on my front for that. But on the other hand, it's for that. But on the other hand, it's for that. But on the other hand, it's like what about those few people that like what about those few people that like what about those few people that did somehow recover or what, you know, I did somehow recover or what, you know, I did somehow recover or what, you know, I don't know what you would call it, but don't know what you would call it, but don't know what you would call it, but they somehow built something in the they somehow built something in the they somehow built something in the world in spite of the like unimaginable world in spite of the like unimaginable world in spite of the like unimaginable horrors. You know, watching your family horrors. You know, watching your family horrors. You know, watching your family get killed and raped and all the things get killed and raped and all the things get killed and raped and all the things that went on and then just being able to that went on and then just being able to that went on and then just being able to build a loving family was pretty build a loving family was pretty build a loving family was pretty impressive. impressive. impressive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Well, let's talk about your dad. I mean, >> Well, let's talk about your dad. I mean, >> Well, let's talk about your dad. I mean, whether by nature or nurture or both, he whether by nature or nurture or both, he whether by nature or nurture or both, he made seemingly some pretty remarkable made seemingly some pretty remarkable made seemingly some pretty remarkable choices as well. So he was grew up as choices as well. So he was grew up as choices as well. So he was grew up as obviously a son of immigrants in America obviously a son of immigrants in America obviously a son of immigrants in America and they was raised by mostly his sister and they was raised by mostly his sister and they was raised by mostly his sister out on you know and so all I think he out on you know and so all I think he out on you know and so all I think he really wanted was a family and stability really wanted was a family and stability really wanted was a family and stability and wanted to work hard and you know his and wanted to work hard and you know his and wanted to work hard and you know his most joyful moments when I was growing most joyful moments when I was growing most joyful moments when I was growing up was when he'd come home from work and up was when he'd come home from work and up was when he'd come home from work and we'd run out and give him a hug like I we'd run out and give him a hug like I we'd run out and give him a hug like I think that was his like life most fully think that was his like life most fully think that was his like life most fully lived was just being a provider and lived was just being a provider and lived was just being a provider and being able to you know he was an being able to you know he was an being able to you know he was an engineer so he was smart guy and being engineer so he was smart guy and being engineer so he was smart guy and being able to like just create a family. able to like just create a family. able to like just create a family. That's really what he wanted. He was That's really what he wanted. He was That's really what he wanted. He was very family oriented. But then it was very family oriented. But then it was very family oriented. But then it was interesting because when he had also had interesting because when he had also had interesting because when he had also had childhood diabetes and polio, so he had childhood diabetes and polio, so he had childhood diabetes and polio, so he had some health issues and he wasn't great some health issues and he wasn't great some health issues and he wasn't great at managing his diabetes well. So when at managing his diabetes well. So when at managing his diabetes well. So when he was probably about I mean I was he was probably about I mean I was he was probably about I mean I was pretty young I guess you know still a pretty young I guess you know still a pretty young I guess you know still a teenager probably he started you know teenager probably he started you know teenager probably he started you know get the sores on your feet that you get get the sores on your feet that you get get the sores on your feet that you get and then basically because of the and then basically because of the and then basically because of the degrading situation with his feet. He degrading situation with his feet. He degrading situation with his feet. He lost his job and all of a sudden he had lost his job and all of a sudden he had lost his job and all of a sudden he had to watch as my mom had to go back to to watch as my mom had to go back to to watch as my mom had to go back to school which was something that was very school which was something that was very school which was something that was very difficult for her because she's just not difficult for her because she's just not difficult for her because she's just not academic but but no longer could dad be academic but but no longer could dad be academic but but no longer could dad be the provider. He was basically somebody the provider. He was basically somebody the provider. He was basically somebody we had to care for because he ended up we had to care for because he ended up we had to care for because he ended up losing his foot and this and that. It losing his foot and this and that. It losing his foot and this and that. It was like a 12-year process of his health was like a 12-year process of his health was like a 12-year process of his health degrading. And it was really hard for degrading. And it was really hard for degrading. And it was really hard for him. You know, mom's going to school and him. You know, mom's going to school and him. You know, mom's going to school and we had to go to the food bank and I we had to go to the food bank and I we had to go to the food bank and I remember him just like crying like I remember him just like crying like I remember him just like crying like I failed. Like the one thing he wanted to failed. Like the one thing he wanted to failed. Like the one thing he wanted to do. do. do. >> Yeah. Brutal. >> Yeah. Brutal. >> Yeah. Brutal. >> And then his foot finally recovered and >> And then his foot finally recovered and >> And then his foot finally recovered and he and I went out in the woods and we he and I went out in the woods and we he and I went out in the woods and we were splitting wood and he like crushed were splitting wood and he like crushed were splitting wood and he like crushed his foot into the log splitter. Oh. And his foot into the log splitter. Oh. And his foot into the log splitter. Oh. And it was, oh, deflate your s. So then they it was, oh, deflate your s. So then they it was, oh, deflate your s. So then they just amputated his other f. And so just amputated his other f. And so just amputated his other f. And so basically he lost his ability, his basically he lost his ability, his basically he lost his ability, his physical ability to to pursue his physical ability to to pursue his physical ability to to pursue his purpose in the world. And uh that was purpose in the world. And uh that was purpose in the world. And uh that was really difficult for him to do. He had really difficult for him to do. He had really difficult for him to do. He had to watch his family suffer and this and to watch his family suffer and this and to watch his family suffer and this and that. But then it was interesting over that. But then it was interesting over that. But then it was interesting over the years to watch him. So from my the years to watch him. So from my the years to watch him. So from my perspective as a son, from my mom's perspective as a son, from my mom's perspective as a son, from my mom's perspective as his wife, we never lost perspective as his wife, we never lost perspective as his wife, we never lost sight of his purpose, you know, like we sight of his purpose, you know, like we sight of his purpose, you know, like we we knew who he was in our lives. It was we knew who he was in our lives. It was we knew who he was in our lives. It was never about the money he was bringing never about the money he was bringing never about the money he was bringing home or the this or that. It was like home or the this or that. It was like home or the this or that. It was like what an encourager and you know, what a what an encourager and you know, what a what an encourager and you know, what a joyful person and all that. And we never joyful person and all that. And we never joyful person and all that. And we never lost sight of that. He did. But then it lost sight of that. He did. But then it lost sight of that. He did. But then it was interesting to see over the course was interesting to see over the course was interesting to see over the course of those 12 years of health degradation of those 12 years of health degradation of those 12 years of health degradation how it was almost like how it was almost like how it was almost like he had to refind his purpose and he did. he had to refind his purpose and he did. he had to refind his purpose and he did. And you know like and then when his And you know like and then when his And you know like and then when his health was at its worst and he was on health was at its worst and he was on health was at its worst and he was on dialysis and in tons of pain and stuff dialysis and in tons of pain and stuff dialysis and in tons of pain and stuff was in a way when his what would you was in a way when his what would you was in a way when his what would you call it spiritual giftings or something call it spiritual giftings or something call it spiritual giftings or something were at their peak like he was really were at their peak like he was really were at their peak like he was really able to I could hear him at night crying able to I could hear him at night crying able to I could hear him at night crying in pain and like oh and then in the in pain and like oh and then in the in pain and like oh and then in the morning he would oh Jordan you know morning he would oh Jordan you know morning he would oh Jordan you know doing great and this and that and let's doing great and this and that and let's doing great and this and that and let's read this psalm together let's do this read this psalm together let's do this read this psalm together let's do this you know he was very much he refound his you know he was very much he refound his you know he was very much he refound his purpose in pouring into us and into purpose in pouring into us and into purpose in pouring into us and into facing the loss of his health and his facing the loss of his health and his facing the loss of his health and his own death with joy. And that's what he own death with joy. And that's what he own death with joy. And that's what he did. He finally was like, "Man, it's I'm did. He finally was like, "Man, it's I'm did. He finally was like, "Man, it's I'm in too much pain. It's too degrading, in too much pain. It's too degrading, in too much pain. It's too degrading, you know, to have me rolling him off the you know, to have me rolling him off the you know, to have me rolling him off the bed. Take him to diialysis." He's like, bed. Take him to diialysis." He's like, bed. Take him to diialysis." He's like, "I'm just going to stop going to "I'm just going to stop going to "I'm just going to stop going to diialysis." And that was a hard decision diialysis." And that was a hard decision diialysis." And that was a hard decision for him. But when he did, it was just for him. But when he did, it was just for him. But when he did, it was just like, "All right, let's just party for like, "All right, let's just party for like, "All right, let's just party for the next two weeks." You know, he was the next two weeks." You know, he was the next two weeks." You know, he was diabetic, so finally he could eat all diabetic, so finally he could eat all diabetic, so finally he could eat all the crap food he wanted. And we all had the crap food he wanted. And we all had the crap food he wanted. And we all had tons of laughs, and he was kind of full tons of laughs, and he was kind of full tons of laughs, and he was kind of full of joy right up until the end. And of joy right up until the end. And of joy right up until the end. And you're like, "What a cool legacy to see you're like, "What a cool legacy to see you're like, "What a cool legacy to see someone face all that and see purpose, someone face all that and see purpose, someone face all that and see purpose, not in their life even, but even in how not in their life even, but even in how not in their life even, but even in how to face death and the way he did that, to face death and the way he did that, to face death and the way he did that, we're all going to be in the same we're all going to be in the same we're all going to be in the same position where we lose our whether our position where we lose our whether our position where we lose our whether our health or whatever inevitable suffering health or whatever inevitable suffering health or whatever inevitable suffering is coming down the hatch, you know, like is coming down the hatch, you know, like is coming down the hatch, you know, like I now have a template for how to face I now have a template for how to face I now have a template for how to face that in a way that I'm still putting that in a way that I'm still putting that in a way that I'm still putting into the world some kind of light into the world some kind of light into the world some kind of light because I could see that it's not only because I could see that it's not only because I could see that it's not only possible, but you know, I could see the possible, but you know, I could see the possible, but you know, I could see the template for doing that." So, it's template for doing that." So, it's template for doing that." So, it's interesting having seen that. It really interesting having seen that. It really interesting having seen that. It really makes you be grateful for the like the makes you be grateful for the like the makes you be grateful for the like the blessing I have now and that I do know blessing I have now and that I do know blessing I have now and that I do know what I love to do and that I have an what I love to do and that I have an what I love to do and that I have an opportunity to to share it with others opportunity to to share it with others opportunity to to share it with others and I know my purpose now as it is, but and I know my purpose now as it is, but and I know my purpose now as it is, but I also know that's going to have to I also know that's going to have to I also know that's going to have to evolve with inevitabilities of aging and evolve with inevitabilities of aging and evolve with inevitabilities of aging and and everything else. And so it's and everything else. And so it's and everything else. And so it's interesting to make sure your priorities interesting to make sure your priorities interesting to make sure your priorities now are in such a way that as you have now are in such a way that as you have now are in such a way that as you have to shift directions that you'll be able to shift directions that you'll be able to shift directions that you'll be able to make that adjustment like they should to make that adjustment like they should to make that adjustment like they should rhyme. You know, you shouldn't have to rhyme. You know, you shouldn't have to rhyme. You know, you shouldn't have to like it's not going to be something like it's not going to be something like it's not going to be something completely different. completely different. completely different. >> It's just going to evolve into a little >> It's just going to evolve into a little >> It's just going to evolve into a little bit different angle. When you think of bit different angle. When you think of bit different angle. When you think of your dad's your dad's your dad's purpose purpose purpose changing over those 12 years, changing over those 12 years, changing over those 12 years, >> is one way to view it as him going from >> is one way to view it as him going from >> is one way to view it as him going from prioritizing how he acted in the world, prioritizing how he acted in the world, prioritizing how he acted in the world, like how he does things in the world to like how he does things in the world to like how he does things in the world to how he then supports and teaches the how he then supports and teaches the how he then supports and teaches the rest of you in the family. I mean, was rest of you in the family. I mean, was rest of you in the family. I mean, was he taking on more of a teacher role? Was he taking on more of a teacher role? Was he taking on more of a teacher role? Was it a supporter role? I mean, it a supporter role? I mean, it a supporter role? I mean, >> maybe not explicitly, but definitely >> maybe not explicitly, but definitely >> maybe not explicitly, but definitely implicitly. His gifting was that he implicitly. His gifting was that he implicitly. His gifting was that he really was an encourager and was really really was an encourager and was really really was an encourager and was really joyful and you know people enjoyed being joyful and you know people enjoyed being joyful and you know people enjoyed being around him and he was able to lean into around him and he was able to lean into around him and he was able to lean into those skills you know those gifts in those skills you know those gifts in those skills you know those gifts in spite of the fact that he couldn't walk spite of the fact that he couldn't walk spite of the fact that he couldn't walk or that he could didn't have hands or or that he could didn't have hands or or that he could didn't have hands or whatever. I think you lean into those whatever. I think you lean into those whatever. I think you lean into those giftings that you have that are not giftings that you have that are not giftings that you have that are not dependent on your ability to produce, dependent on your ability to produce, dependent on your ability to produce, you know, which which is great while you you know, which which is great while you you know, which which is great while you have it. But have it. But have it. But >> how long after he stopped dialysis? How >> how long after he stopped dialysis? How >> how long after he stopped dialysis? How long did he last after that? long did he last after that? long did he last after that? >> It was about a week. It wasn't as long >> It was about a week. It wasn't as long >> It was about a week. It wasn't as long even as we expected, you know, like it even as we expected, you know, like it even as we expected, you know, like it might be up to two weeks or whatever. At might be up to two weeks or whatever. At might be up to two weeks or whatever. At about I think it was about a week in his about I think it was about a week in his about I think it was about a week in his temperature just spiked and then that temperature just spiked and then that temperature just spiked and then that was it. We were all around. Did you at was it. We were all around. Did you at was it. We were all around. Did you at the time the time the time understand his decision? Were you understand his decision? Were you understand his decision? Were you interested? You know, to be fair, I interested? You know, to be fair, I interested? You know, to be fair, I mean, to be honest, I actually mean, to be honest, I actually mean, to be honest, I actually >> he was really struggling with it >> he was really struggling with it >> he was really struggling with it because, you know, he was also a man of because, you know, he was also a man of because, you know, he was also a man of faith and I remember him reading, you faith and I remember him reading, you faith and I remember him reading, you know, he was like, know, he was like, know, he was like, >> boy, it says, you know, because he >> boy, it says, you know, because he >> boy, it says, you know, because he really was having a hard time hanging really was having a hard time hanging really was having a hard time hanging on, you know, because it's the pain, the on, you know, because it's the pain, the on, you know, because it's the pain, the amount of pain he was in and stuff, but amount of pain he was in and stuff, but amount of pain he was in and stuff, but he was like, it says here, you know, the he was like, it says here, you know, the he was like, it says here, you know, the Lord will never give you more than you Lord will never give you more than you Lord will never give you more than you can bear. And I remember actually in can bear. And I remember actually in can bear. And I remember actually in conversation with him, well, that's conversation with him, well, that's conversation with him, well, that's actually not true, Dad. like everybody actually not true, Dad. like everybody actually not true, Dad. like everybody that's died was given more than a bear. that's died was given more than a bear. that's died was given more than a bear. It says it won't tempt you beyond your It says it won't tempt you beyond your It says it won't tempt you beyond your ability to bear, which is a different ability to bear, which is a different ability to bear, which is a different thing. You know, you're kind of on a thing. You know, you're kind of on a thing. You know, you're kind of on a different realm there. And and so we had different realm there. And and so we had different realm there. And and so we had that conversation. It's not that I was I that conversation. It's not that I was I that conversation. It's not that I was I wanted him to hang on as long as wanted him to hang on as long as wanted him to hang on as long as possible, but I also wanted him to have possible, but I also wanted him to have possible, but I also wanted him to have the freedom to, you know, we talked a the freedom to, you know, we talked a the freedom to, you know, we talked a lot about how it's weird in the modern lot about how it's weird in the modern lot about how it's weird in the modern world where you have this choice that world where you have this choice that world where you have this choice that we've never had in the past where you we've never had in the past where you we've never had in the past where you have to now choose when to stop going to have to now choose when to stop going to have to now choose when to stop going to dialysis or stop doing this or that or dialysis or stop doing this or that or dialysis or stop doing this or that or you can just drag on your inevitable you can just drag on your inevitable you can just drag on your inevitable downfall kind of forever. And so I think downfall kind of forever. And so I think downfall kind of forever. And so I think it was ultimately it just came down to it was ultimately it just came down to it was ultimately it just came down to the fact that he wasn't ever going to the fact that he wasn't ever going to the fact that he wasn't ever going to get better. He recognized that he was in get better. He recognized that he was in get better. He recognized that he was in a lot of pain and I think he wanted to a lot of pain and I think he wanted to a lot of pain and I think he wanted to free, free, free, you know, I mean, you can only do that you know, I mean, you can only do that you know, I mean, you can only do that for so long and I think he wanted to for so long and I think he wanted to for so long and I think he wanted to like in a final act, you know, you kind like in a final act, you know, you kind like in a final act, you know, you kind of free us up too. probably of free us up too. probably of free us up too. probably >> I'm going to use some of the kind of >> I'm going to use some of the kind of >> I'm going to use some of the kind of promises and perils of modern healthcare promises and perils of modern healthcare promises and perils of modern healthcare like you said like you said like you said >> to extend the runway sometimes in cases >> to extend the runway sometimes in cases >> to extend the runway sometimes in cases where the quality of life where the quality of life where the quality of life >> just entails so much suffering or lack >> just entails so much suffering or lack >> just entails so much suffering or lack of awareness that it just it raises a of awareness that it just it raises a of awareness that it just it raises a lot of ethical questions right that we lot of ethical questions right that we lot of ethical questions right that we didn't have to face 200 years ago 300 didn't have to face 200 years ago 300 didn't have to face 200 years ago 300 years ago years ago years ago >> just to take a closer look at modern >> just to take a closer look at modern >> just to take a closer look at modern living and specifically Where I want to living and specifically Where I want to living and specifically Where I want to go with that is maybe we could take it go with that is maybe we could take it go with that is maybe we could take it to our trip in the mountains because to our trip in the mountains because to our trip in the mountains because particularly since we weren't doing any particularly since we weren't doing any particularly since we weren't doing any hunting. If you're hunting then you have hunting. If you're hunting then you have hunting. If you're hunting then you have to time your rhythm with your quarry and to time your rhythm with your quarry and to time your rhythm with your quarry and it's a different situation. it's a different situation. it's a different situation. But I remember asking you at one point I But I remember asking you at one point I But I remember asking you at one point I was like so when are we waking up was like so when are we waking up was like so when are we waking up tomorrow and you're like well when we tomorrow and you're like well when we tomorrow and you're like well when we want to wake up and this comes back to want to wake up and this comes back to want to wake up and this comes back to the veni as well the veni as well the veni as well >> and living in a settlement where you are >> and living in a settlement where you are >> and living in a settlement where you are managing someone else's property or an managing someone else's property or an managing someone else's property or an employee of the government employee of the government employee of the government >> versus having more flexibility in the >> versus having more flexibility in the >> versus having more flexibility in the way you structure your life in your way you structure your life in your way you structure your life in your days. Right. I would just love you to days. Right. I would just love you to days. Right. I would just love you to hear you riff on sort of over structure hear you riff on sort of over structure hear you riff on sort of over structure versus too little structure versus where versus too little structure versus where versus too little structure versus where humans kind of naturally fall. humans kind of naturally fall. humans kind of naturally fall. >> The first glimpse I got of this way of >> The first glimpse I got of this way of >> The first glimpse I got of this way of life that we've lost in the modern life that we've lost in the modern life that we've lost in the modern context was actually riding trains where context was actually riding trains where context was actually riding trains where it's like you wake up in the morning, I it's like you wake up in the morning, I it's like you wake up in the morning, I don't have anything I have to do. I just don't have anything I have to do. I just don't have anything I have to do. I just got to figure out where to get food and got to figure out where to get food and got to figure out where to get food and water and that's basically it. water and that's basically it. water and that's basically it. >> Can you give us like a minute or two of >> Can you give us like a minute or two of >> Can you give us like a minute or two of just like how on earth did you end up just like how on earth did you end up just like how on earth did you end up hopping trains? The quick minute or two hopping trains? The quick minute or two hopping trains? The quick minute or two of that was that my brother had, for of that was that my brother had, for of that was that my brother had, for whatever reason, done it for years. He whatever reason, done it for years. He whatever reason, done it for years. He hitchhiked and didn't like relying on hitchhiked and didn't like relying on hitchhiked and didn't like relying on people to pick him up. Somehow he heard people to pick him up. Somehow he heard people to pick him up. Somehow he heard about riding trains, jumped on one, and about riding trains, jumped on one, and about riding trains, jumped on one, and probably a lot to do with this freedom probably a lot to do with this freedom probably a lot to do with this freedom that we're about to discuss. Just loved that we're about to discuss. Just loved that we're about to discuss. Just loved it. And in 10 years, he basically seven it. And in 10 years, he basically seven it. And in 10 years, he basically seven or eight or 10, however many years, he or eight or 10, however many years, he or eight or 10, however many years, he just rode trains. And at some point when just rode trains. And at some point when just rode trains. And at some point when I was 18 or so, invited me to go along. I was 18 or so, invited me to go along. I was 18 or so, invited me to go along. And and so I did, which was probably a And and so I did, which was probably a And and so I did, which was probably a fork in my road just from having a job fork in my road just from having a job fork in my road just from having a job and doing the stuff to all of a sudden and doing the stuff to all of a sudden and doing the stuff to all of a sudden >> pretty wide fork. >> pretty wide fork. >> pretty wide fork. >> Yeah. Bum. >> Yeah. Bum. >> Yeah. Bum. >> But why you glimpse what I think is the >> But why you glimpse what I think is the >> But why you glimpse what I think is the appeal there is that Yeah. that that appeal there is that Yeah. that that appeal there is that Yeah. that that rhythm of life that humans are designed rhythm of life that humans are designed rhythm of life that humans are designed for that we've lived for as long as for that we've lived for as long as for that we've lived for as long as humans have been around. It's like then humans have been around. It's like then humans have been around. It's like then I would really get immersed in again I would really get immersed in again I would really get immersed in again living with the natives later where you living with the natives later where you living with the natives later where you wake up and you have a things you have wake up and you have a things you have wake up and you have a things you have to do, but there's no particular to do, but there's no particular to do, but there's no particular schedule. They're all directly tied to schedule. They're all directly tied to schedule. They're all directly tied to your existence right now. You know, your existence right now. You know, your existence right now. You know, you're not working to make money to put you're not working to make money to put you're not working to make money to put in your 401k so that later this, you in your 401k so that later this, you in your 401k so that later this, you know, it's just all very direct. It's know, it's just all very direct. It's know, it's just all very direct. It's like, oh, let's go catch some fish like, oh, let's go catch some fish like, oh, let's go catch some fish today. We're hungry or the reindeer today. We're hungry or the reindeer today. We're hungry or the reindeer might be getting away. Let's go herd might be getting away. Let's go herd might be getting away. Let's go herd them back. And you know, you kind of them back. And you know, you kind of them back. And you know, you kind of have these activities that are directly have these activities that are directly have these activities that are directly related to your life. And in that, you related to your life. And in that, you related to your life. And in that, you would know the proper terminology, but would know the proper terminology, but would know the proper terminology, but it feels like your dopamine and your it feels like your dopamine and your it feels like your dopamine and your serotonin, all that kind of stuff is serotonin, all that kind of stuff is serotonin, all that kind of stuff is just lined up properly. just lined up properly. just lined up properly. >> Well, you're living the way that we have >> Well, you're living the way that we have >> Well, you're living the way that we have evolved to live. evolved to live. evolved to live. >> Exactly. You're in the right mold >> Exactly. You're in the right mold >> Exactly. You're in the right mold basically for that. And I've described basically for that. And I've described basically for that. And I've described it before, but when you're successful on it before, but when you're successful on it before, but when you're successful on a hunt or when you're like get into some a hunt or when you're like get into some a hunt or when you're like get into some good fish and you're in that rhythm, good fish and you're in that rhythm, good fish and you're in that rhythm, it's like you just couldn't be more it's like you just couldn't be more it's like you just couldn't be more joyful than that. There's just no more joyful than that. There's just no more joyful than that. There's just no more that's it. That's your max human that's it. That's your max human that's it. That's your max human experience is amazing. Yeah. You know, experience is amazing. Yeah. You know, experience is amazing. Yeah. You know, we didn't have to earn a bunch of money we didn't have to earn a bunch of money we didn't have to earn a bunch of money and it's just so much more accessible in and it's just so much more accessible in and it's just so much more accessible in a way. It also makes me think about a way. It also makes me think about a way. It also makes me think about >> sorry to jump in, but >> sorry to jump in, but >> sorry to jump in, but >> when you were talking about your brother >> when you were talking about your brother >> when you were talking about your brother and his German shepherd and his German shepherd and his German shepherd >> who had never done any hering and a >> who had never done any hering and a >> who had never done any hering and a couple of goats like running a muck and couple of goats like running a muck and couple of goats like running a muck and your brother started trying to gather your brother started trying to gather your brother started trying to gather them and the German shepherd just them and the German shepherd just them and the German shepherd just clicked into what it is evolved or I clicked into what it is evolved or I clicked into what it is evolved or I should say select artificially evolved should say select artificially evolved should say select artificially evolved to do and boom it was to do and boom it was to do and boom it was >> off to the races. >> off to the races. >> off to the races. rhythm of life rhythm of life rhythm of life >> knew exactly what it needed to do. And >> knew exactly what it needed to do. And >> knew exactly what it needed to do. And >> humans are not that different. >> humans are not that different. >> humans are not that different. >> No, we're not. And and we have so many >> No, we're not. And and we have so many >> No, we're not. And and we have so many layers on top of that simplicity that layers on top of that simplicity that layers on top of that simplicity that that sometimes it gets it's all feels that sometimes it gets it's all feels that sometimes it gets it's all feels like hacks, you know, as we know like like hacks, you know, as we know like like hacks, you know, as we know like even you look on your phone, oh, I got even you look on your phone, oh, I got even you look on your phone, oh, I got seven likes. seven likes. seven likes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just a little hack of our berry picking >> Just a little hack of our berry picking >> Just a little hack of our berry picking reception, reception, reception, but you never quite fully get there. It but you never quite fully get there. It but you never quite fully get there. It was always a little bit hard to was always a little bit hard to was always a little bit hard to articulate. I was like, I just life articulate. I was like, I just life articulate. I was like, I just life feels just more realistic. You're more feels just more realistic. You're more feels just more realistic. You're more like in the world, but it's a little bit like in the world, but it's a little bit like in the world, but it's a little bit difficult to articulate. difficult to articulate. difficult to articulate. >> Well, it seems very tangible in the >> Well, it seems very tangible in the >> Well, it seems very tangible in the sense that like you're dealing with sense that like you're dealing with sense that like you're dealing with fewer layers of abstraction, right? fewer layers of abstraction, right? fewer layers of abstraction, right? >> You're not like I'm going to do this >> You're not like I'm going to do this >> You're not like I'm going to do this thing to then ensure this other thing thing to then ensure this other thing thing to then ensure this other thing >> that will give me more happiness in the >> that will give me more happiness in the >> that will give me more happiness in the future. Mhm. future. Mhm. future. Mhm. >> It's like, h I know I'm going to need to >> It's like, h I know I'm going to need to >> It's like, h I know I'm going to need to eat in a few hours or I'd prefer to eat, eat in a few hours or I'd prefer to eat, eat in a few hours or I'd prefer to eat, >> you know, need to eat in a few hours. >> you know, need to eat in a few hours. >> you know, need to eat in a few hours. You could fast, but you're like, I kind You could fast, but you're like, I kind You could fast, but you're like, I kind of like to eat. of like to eat. of like to eat. >> I'd like to be warm. >> I'd like to be warm. >> I'd like to be warm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'd like to sleep tonight. So, >> Okay. I'd like to sleep tonight. So, >> Okay. I'd like to sleep tonight. So, it's like, okay, it's like, okay, it's like, okay, >> cause and effect are very related. >> cause and effect are very related. >> cause and effect are very related. >> It's very easy to track. >> It's very easy to track. >> It's very easy to track. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And not just track, but like have the >> And not just track, but like have the >> And not just track, but like have the gratification of individual cause and gratification of individual cause and gratification of individual cause and effect. effect. effect. >> That's very tangible. And it was so much >> That's very tangible. And it was so much >> That's very tangible. And it was so much so that and this is only a working so that and this is only a working so that and this is only a working hypothesis, but when I was living with hypothesis, but when I was living with hypothesis, but when I was living with the natives, you know, I had the issue the natives, you know, I had the issue the natives, you know, I had the issue that it wasn't my native language. And that it wasn't my native language. And that it wasn't my native language. And as much as they were, you know, I love as much as they were, you know, I love as much as they were, you know, I love those people and they're my friends, it those people and they're my friends, it those people and they're my friends, it wasn't like my family. It wasn't the wasn't like my family. It wasn't the wasn't like my family. It wasn't the people that you grow up with, you know, people that you grow up with, you know, people that you grow up with, you know, >> but I was like, I wonder if everybody >> but I was like, I wonder if everybody >> but I was like, I wonder if everybody would choose this way of life if it was would choose this way of life if it was would choose this way of life if it was in a little bit more pleasant climate in a little bit more pleasant climate in a little bit more pleasant climate >> and with the two modern with the two >> and with the two modern with the two >> and with the two modern with the two modern modern modern >> a little bit maybe - 20 and not 50. >> a little bit maybe - 20 and not 50. >> a little bit maybe - 20 and not 50. >> Modern medicine and food security are >> Modern medicine and food security are >> Modern medicine and food security are amazing. But aside from that, it's like amazing. But aside from that, it's like amazing. But aside from that, it's like I wonder if people wouldn't choose this I wonder if people wouldn't choose this I wonder if people wouldn't choose this way of life. Even people that just have way of life. Even people that just have way of life. Even people that just have no idea that they might like the no idea that they might like the no idea that they might like the outdoor. Can I give like a outdoor. Can I give like a outdoor. Can I give like a sidebar experience that sometimes comes sidebar experience that sometimes comes sidebar experience that sometimes comes along with this? along with this? along with this? >> You were talking about a little bit >> You were talking about a little bit >> You were talking about a little bit earlier today, but can you talk about earlier today, but can you talk about earlier today, but can you talk about the bear incident specifically that you the bear incident specifically that you the bear incident specifically that you were mentioning earlier, your friend were mentioning earlier, your friend were mentioning earlier, your friend with the gun? This was a time where we'd with the gun? This was a time where we'd with the gun? This was a time where we'd kind of gone out in the woods and we had kind of gone out in the woods and we had kind of gone out in the woods and we had taken a bunch of the younger dudes that taken a bunch of the younger dudes that taken a bunch of the younger dudes that were living in the village and kind of were living in the village and kind of were living in the village and kind of drinking and my fur trapping buddy has drinking and my fur trapping buddy has drinking and my fur trapping buddy has his big fur trapping territory and he his big fur trapping territory and he his big fur trapping territory and he was like we should get these kids out was like we should get these kids out was like we should get these kids out there and just like spend a summer you there and just like spend a summer you there and just like spend a summer you know and have them living off the land know and have them living off the land know and have them living off the land >> and just because I'm curious is this >> and just because I'm curious is this >> and just because I'm curious is this sable or what are they? sable or what are they? sable or what are they? >> Sable's what they fur trap. So we were >> Sable's what they fur trap. So we were >> Sable's what they fur trap. So we were out spent out summer out on that out spent out summer out on that out spent out summer out on that territory invited a handful of these territory invited a handful of these territory invited a handful of these guys and it was great. We had a horse guys and it was great. We had a horse guys and it was great. We had a horse out there and you know cutting hay with out there and you know cutting hay with out there and you know cutting hay with for it and all that with the sigh and for it and all that with the sigh and for it and all that with the sigh and living off the land basically all that living off the land basically all that living off the land basically all that we fished and hunted. Well, one day we we fished and hunted. Well, one day we we fished and hunted. Well, one day we came out I heard my my buddy was came out I heard my my buddy was came out I heard my my buddy was sleeping and he woke up and he was like sleeping and he woke up and he was like sleeping and he woke up and he was like and you can hear the dogs barking like and you can hear the dogs barking like and you can hear the dogs barking like crazy. Well, we woke up and I thought, crazy. Well, we woke up and I thought, crazy. Well, we woke up and I thought, man, that dumb dog, it just barks at man, that dumb dog, it just barks at man, that dumb dog, it just barks at every squirrel this or that. And so I every squirrel this or that. And so I every squirrel this or that. And so I didn't get up and look. Well, then my didn't get up and look. Well, then my didn't get up and look. Well, then my buddy goes out to brush his teeth and buddy goes out to brush his teeth and buddy goes out to brush his teeth and runs back and there's a bear out there. runs back and there's a bear out there. runs back and there's a bear out there. So I jumped up and we look out and a So I jumped up and we look out and a So I jumped up and we look out and a bear just 150 yards, you know, not far bear just 150 yards, you know, not far bear just 150 yards, you know, not far at all from our cabin had killed a at all from our cabin had killed a at all from our cabin had killed a moose. moose. moose. >> What kind of bears are we talking about? >> What kind of bears are we talking about? >> What kind of bears are we talking about? >> These are brown bears. Just some kind of >> These are brown bears. Just some kind of >> These are brown bears. Just some kind of brown bear in Siberia. Bourne midvid. brown bear in Siberia. Bourne midvid. brown bear in Siberia. Bourne midvid. >> Bigger than a black bear. >> Bigger than a black bear. >> Bigger than a black bear. >> Bigger than a black bear. Some kind of a >> Bigger than a black bear. Some kind of a >> Bigger than a black bear. Some kind of a grizzly. So we come out and the bear grizzly. So we come out and the bear grizzly. So we come out and the bear like took off up in the woods and like like took off up in the woods and like like took off up in the woods and like what is that laying over there and you what is that laying over there and you what is that laying over there and you know sure enough it's a big fresh warm know sure enough it's a big fresh warm know sure enough it's a big fresh warm moose. We're like oh no way. So we that moose. We're like oh no way. So we that moose. We're like oh no way. So we that was a windfall for us. So, of course, we was a windfall for us. So, of course, we was a windfall for us. So, of course, we like cut it up and take it back to camp. like cut it up and take it back to camp. like cut it up and take it back to camp. We dug a big pit into the perafrost, you We dug a big pit into the perafrost, you We dug a big pit into the perafrost, you know, has a makeshift know, has a makeshift know, has a makeshift fridge and threw the meat in there. And fridge and threw the meat in there. And fridge and threw the meat in there. And then a few days later, that bear came then a few days later, that bear came then a few days later, that bear came back with a vengeance. Like, he was not back with a vengeance. Like, he was not back with a vengeance. Like, he was not pleased. pleased. pleased. >> He was not pleased. He came back. >> He was not pleased. He came back. >> He was not pleased. He came back. >> First sign was one of our dogs just ran >> First sign was one of our dogs just ran >> First sign was one of our dogs just ran into the little cabin and under the bed into the little cabin and under the bed into the little cabin and under the bed or whatever. And then the other one we or whatever. And then the other one we or whatever. And then the other one we started hearing barking outside. And started hearing barking outside. And started hearing barking outside. And then the bear was it was a lot of tall then the bear was it was a lot of tall then the bear was it was a lot of tall brush in the area. I could just hear the brush in the area. I could just hear the brush in the area. I could just hear the bear just through the ripping through bear just through the ripping through bear just through the ripping through the brush and then ripping this way and the brush and then ripping this way and the brush and then ripping this way and that. I was like, "Oh, it's pretty that. I was like, "Oh, it's pretty that. I was like, "Oh, it's pretty intense right off the bat." And I was intense right off the bat." And I was intense right off the bat." And I was like, "Holy crap." So, I grabbed the like, "Holy crap." So, I grabbed the like, "Holy crap." So, I grabbed the SKS, which is like a assault rifle is SKS, which is like a assault rifle is SKS, which is like a assault rifle is basically what they use to hunt over basically what they use to hunt over basically what they use to hunt over there. I run out of the cabin and like there. I run out of the cabin and like there. I run out of the cabin and like go kind of towards where the dog's go kind of towards where the dog's go kind of towards where the dog's barking. I figure the bear was over barking. I figure the bear was over barking. I figure the bear was over there. So, I'm walking over towards this there. So, I'm walking over towards this there. So, I'm walking over towards this bark and then Yora, one of the younger bark and then Yora, one of the younger bark and then Yora, one of the younger guys, was behind me. And when we just guys, was behind me. And when we just guys, was behind me. And when we just hear this, the bear was right behind us hear this, the bear was right behind us hear this, the bear was right behind us and snorted and we're like, "Whoa!" Like and snorted and we're like, "Whoa!" Like and snorted and we're like, "Whoa!" Like flip around and then it just charged flip around and then it just charged flip around and then it just charged through the alders and we're like, "Oh, through the alders and we're like, "Oh, through the alders and we're like, "Oh, >> well that was crazy." Like, "What's the >> well that was crazy." Like, "What's the >> well that was crazy." Like, "What's the dog barking at hanging?" dog barking at hanging?" dog barking at hanging?" >> And so then you could hear this, you >> And so then you could hear this, you >> And so then you could hear this, you know, kurfuffle out in the woods. I was know, kurfuffle out in the woods. I was know, kurfuffle out in the woods. I was like, "Well, here you take the gun. I'm like, "Well, here you take the gun. I'm like, "Well, here you take the gun. I'm going to take the my little 3 megapixel going to take the my little 3 megapixel going to take the my little 3 megapixel camera I had at the time." And so camera I had at the time." And so camera I had at the time." And so >> I love that. That's your reflex. I'm >> I love that. That's your reflex. I'm >> I love that. That's your reflex. I'm going to take some photos. Seems like a going to take some photos. Seems like a going to take some photos. Seems like a great time. great time. great time. >> It was a bad choice in the end, but he >> It was a bad choice in the end, but he >> It was a bad choice in the end, but he uh Anyway, I gave the gun to Jüka. Same uh Anyway, I gave the gun to Jüka. Same uh Anyway, I gave the gun to Jüka. Same thing. We're like kind of paying thing. We're like kind of paying thing. We're like kind of paying attention to where we last heard the attention to where we last heard the attention to where we last heard the chaos and again the bear was behind us chaos and again the bear was behind us chaos and again the bear was behind us like move and snorted again and just like move and snorted again and just like move and snorted again and just took off running with the gun and he took off running with the gun and he took off running with the gun and he fullon ran and disappeared from my fullon ran and disappeared from my fullon ran and disappeared from my sight. I had had, you know, my knee sight. I had had, you know, my knee sight. I had had, you know, my knee issues we discussed earlier. So, I issues we discussed earlier. So, I issues we discussed earlier. So, I actually couldn't run nor would I want actually couldn't run nor would I want actually couldn't run nor would I want to from a predator. So, I kind of just to from a predator. So, I kind of just to from a predator. So, I kind of just stood there. I was like like oh my gosh stood there. I was like like oh my gosh stood there. I was like like oh my gosh like I'm just here when I'm now what do like I'm just here when I'm now what do like I'm just here when I'm now what do I do with my stupid 3.5 megapixel camera I do with my stupid 3.5 megapixel camera I do with my stupid 3.5 megapixel camera and so anyway he was gone a long felt and so anyway he was gone a long felt and so anyway he was gone a long felt like a very long time it was probably 30 like a very long time it was probably 30 like a very long time it was probably 30 seconds to a minute like a good enough seconds to a minute like a good enough seconds to a minute like a good enough long time that I was like what in the long time that I was like what in the long time that I was like what in the world and then finally he comes back and world and then finally he comes back and world and then finally he comes back and his knees he's like I can't do this my his knees he's like I can't do this my his knees he's like I can't do this my knees are shaking and I was like I was knees are shaking and I was like I was knees are shaking and I was like I was like you got the gun like don't run and like you got the gun like don't run and like you got the gun like don't run and then right as I said that the bear like then right as I said that the bear like then right as I said that the bear like stood up in front of us and he just boom stood up in front of us and he just boom stood up in front of us and he just boom boom boom boom boom boom and filled his boom boom boom boom boom and filled his boom boom boom boom boom and filled his whole magazine into it and it took off whole magazine into it and it took off whole magazine into it and it took off and you know we ended up getting it and you know we ended up getting it and you know we ended up getting it which then we laughed at him because we which then we laughed at him because we which then we laughed at him because we were joking around but they had always were joking around but they had always were joking around but they had always been telling me like you know us one been telling me like you know us one been telling me like you know us one shot one kill shot one kill shot one kill and then it was like Vietnam and we're and then it was like Vietnam and we're and then it was like Vietnam and we're like pretty intense. It was also like pretty intense. It was also like pretty intense. It was also interesting because that was the first interesting because that was the first interesting because that was the first bear that I was with him with when they bear that I was with him with when they bear that I was with him with when they killed and they had this whole ritual killed and they had this whole ritual killed and they had this whole ritual because how they honored the bear. The because how they honored the bear. The because how they honored the bear. The word, the aanki word for bear is word, the aanki word for bear is word, the aanki word for bear is grandpa. Amaka. They would take the grandpa. Amaka. They would take the grandpa. Amaka. They would take the eyeballs out. They took the eyeballs out eyeballs out. They took the eyeballs out eyeballs out. They took the eyeballs out and put them under a rock so that when and put them under a rock so that when and put them under a rock so that when the spirit of the bear came back, it the spirit of the bear came back, it the spirit of the bear came back, it wouldn't see who did what to it. And wouldn't see who did what to it. And wouldn't see who did what to it. And then the funny the better part was they then the funny the better part was they then the funny the better part was they took the intestines and threw them in took the intestines and threw them in took the intestines and threw them in the river. So when it did come back, it the river. So when it did come back, it the river. So when it did come back, it would be the neighboring village would be the neighboring village would be the neighboring village that the intestines floated to that that the intestines floated to that that the intestines floated to that caught the wrath. But that was a pretty caught the wrath. But that was a pretty caught the wrath. But that was a pretty intense little moment there. We're gonna intense little moment there. We're gonna intense little moment there. We're gonna do one one more story. I mean, these are do one one more story. I mean, these are do one one more story. I mean, these are all going to be stories. We're going to all going to be stories. We're going to all going to be stories. We're going to do one more story. Some of the native do one more story. Some of the native do one more story. Some of the native hunters are better than others. I'm hunters are better than others. I'm hunters are better than others. I'm gonna cue you gonna cue you gonna cue you also involves moose if I'm not mistaken. also involves moose if I'm not mistaken. also involves moose if I'm not mistaken. Canoe. Oh, this is great. Yeah, this is Canoe. Oh, this is great. Yeah, this is Canoe. Oh, this is great. Yeah, this is another hilarious story. So, there were another hilarious story. So, there were another hilarious story. So, there were these two these two these two mid60s women that were going to come out mid60s women that were going to come out mid60s women that were going to come out to the tribe. So, there's this village, to the tribe. So, there's this village, to the tribe. So, there's this village, the native village, 500 people. It was the native village, 500 people. It was the native village, 500 people. It was about a 12-hour float from a place about a 12-hour float from a place about a 12-hour float from a place that's a common stop that the nomads that's a common stop that the nomads that's a common stop that the nomads often stop. And so, they had found out often stop. And so, they had found out often stop. And so, they had found out that we were going to be there. So, that we were going to be there. So, that we were going to be there. So, these old ladies were going to come out these old ladies were going to come out these old ladies were going to come out and visit the tribe. Well, they got in a and visit the tribe. Well, they got in a and visit the tribe. Well, they got in a it's just a 12-hour float, so you don't it's just a 12-hour float, so you don't it's just a 12-hour float, so you don't really need much. You get there at the really need much. You get there at the really need much. You get there at the end of the day and can eat when you get end of the day and can eat when you get end of the day and can eat when you get there. So, all they brought, as you any there. So, all they brought, as you any there. So, all they brought, as you any native did, would be an axe. And so, native did, would be an axe. And so, native did, would be an axe. And so, they untied their rope. It was an they untied their rope. It was an they untied their rope. It was an aluminum boat and jumped in the boat and aluminum boat and jumped in the boat and aluminum boat and jumped in the boat and were just floating along. Well, picture were just floating along. Well, picture were just floating along. Well, picture two, two, two, you know, senior citizen women floating you know, senior citizen women floating you know, senior citizen women floating down and there's a moose swimming across down and there's a moose swimming across down and there's a moose swimming across the the the lake and as as you do, the the the lake and as as you do, the the the lake and as as you do, we got to kill this thing. We'll be the we got to kill this thing. We'll be the we got to kill this thing. We'll be the heroes or whatever. So they rode up next heroes or whatever. So they rode up next heroes or whatever. So they rode up next to it and with the rope that was to it and with the rope that was to it and with the rope that was attached to the front of their boat, attached to the front of their boat, attached to the front of their boat, they lassoed over the I don't know the they lassoed over the I don't know the they lassoed over the I don't know the antlers or the neck of this thing, but antlers or the neck of this thing, but antlers or the neck of this thing, but at the same time they had the axe. They at the same time they had the axe. They at the same time they had the axe. They pictured themselves like chopping it in pictured themselves like chopping it in pictured themselves like chopping it in the neck and trying to kill it. Well, it the neck and trying to kill it. Well, it the neck and trying to kill it. Well, it of course got traction on the shore and of course got traction on the shore and of course got traction on the shore and on the water before they were able to on the water before they were able to on the water before they were able to pull that off and took off into the pull that off and took off into the pull that off and took off into the woods and skied these ladies in this woods and skied these ladies in this woods and skied these ladies in this boat behind them like several hundred boat behind them like several hundred boat behind them like several hundred yards up into the woods before it yards up into the woods before it yards up into the woods before it finally went through these two trees and finally went through these two trees and finally went through these two trees and snapped the rope off and it disappeared. snapped the rope off and it disappeared. snapped the rope off and it disappeared. And those ladies like just were gone for And those ladies like just were gone for And those ladies like just were gone for a few days. They had to like sit by the a few days. They had to like sit by the a few days. They had to like sit by the side of the river till the next people side of the river till the next people side of the river till the next people they couldn't carry their boat. So they they couldn't carry their boat. So they they couldn't carry their boat. So they just sat there until finally somebody just sat there until finally somebody just sat there until finally somebody floated by that could help them drag floated by that could help them drag floated by that could help them drag their boat back to the water. And the their boat back to the water. And the their boat back to the water. And the lady they made it out the lady was very lady they made it out the lady was very lady they made it out the lady was very funny cuz we then had to get back to the funny cuz we then had to get back to the funny cuz we then had to get back to the village eventually. It was like a you village eventually. It was like a you village eventually. It was like a you know by land it was like a 30 kilometer know by land it was like a 30 kilometer know by land it was like a 30 kilometer reindeer ride. And that poor lady and I reindeer ride. And that poor lady and I reindeer ride. And that poor lady and I had the same problem. I would always had the same problem. I would always had the same problem. I would always fall off the reindeer, but she was the fall off the reindeer, but she was the fall off the reindeer, but she was the the only other person that apparently the only other person that apparently the only other person that apparently had that problem cuz they just put the had that problem cuz they just put the had that problem cuz they just put the saddle on loosely. It's not like a horse saddle on loosely. It's not like a horse saddle on loosely. It's not like a horse saddle where you kind of cinch it up. saddle where you kind of cinch it up. saddle where you kind of cinch it up. They just throw it on and it kind of They just throw it on and it kind of They just throw it on and it kind of wobbles, but they get used to it and so wobbles, but they get used to it and so wobbles, but they get used to it and so they can kind of ride along. And it took they can kind of ride along. And it took they can kind of ride along. And it took me a long time to get used to, but me a long time to get used to, but me a long time to get used to, but obviously it took her also a long time. obviously it took her also a long time. obviously it took her also a long time. And I was walking, but we were in the And I was walking, but we were in the And I was walking, but we were in the rain. And that poor lady, every time we rain. And that poor lady, every time we rain. And that poor lady, every time we crossed a river or a puddle or anything, crossed a river or a puddle or anything, crossed a river or a puddle or anything, they keep lifting her back on. It was they keep lifting her back on. It was they keep lifting her back on. It was very funny. That was a great story. I very funny. That was a great story. I very funny. That was a great story. I They're a different breed of people that They're a different breed of people that They're a different breed of people that when grandma sees the moose swimming when grandma sees the moose swimming when grandma sees the moose swimming across the river, decides to catch it in across the river, decides to catch it in across the river, decides to catch it in the neck, the neck, the neck, >> it >> it >> it >> all right. So, I'd be remiss if we >> all right. So, I'd be remiss if we >> all right. So, I'd be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit about Alone, didn't talk a little bit about Alone, didn't talk a little bit about Alone, which is probably the only, let's call which is probably the only, let's call which is probably the only, let's call it, reality TV show that I've watched it, reality TV show that I've watched it, reality TV show that I've watched two full seasons of in the last two full seasons of in the last two full seasons of in the last >> which were they >> which were they >> which were they >> decades, six and seven. Oh, yeah. >> decades, six and seven. Oh, yeah. >> decades, six and seven. Oh, yeah. >> Because The Word on the street, >> Because The Word on the street, >> Because The Word on the street, >> otherwise known as the internet, >> otherwise known as the internet, >> otherwise known as the internet, >> was that season six, which you were a >> was that season six, which you were a >> was that season six, which you were a part of, part of, part of, >> and season 7 were two of the highlights. >> and season 7 were two of the highlights. >> and season 7 were two of the highlights. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. with some insane >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. with some insane >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. with some insane [ __ ] events that transpire in these [ __ ] events that transpire in these [ __ ] events that transpire in these two seasons. two seasons. two seasons. >> If you ever have to, you know, I had to, >> If you ever have to, you know, I had to, >> If you ever have to, you know, I had to, well, had to. I chose after elbow well, had to. I chose after elbow well, had to. I chose after elbow surgery to do hyperbaric oxygen surgery to do hyperbaric oxygen surgery to do hyperbaric oxygen treatments. treatments. treatments. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> For a host of reasons. Sidebar on that. >> For a host of reasons. Sidebar on that. >> For a host of reasons. Sidebar on that. If you're going to do that, If you're going to do that, If you're going to do that, >> needs to be hard shell medical grade. >> needs to be hard shell medical grade. >> needs to be hard shell medical grade. Typically like 2 to 2.5 atmospheres. Typically like 2 to 2.5 atmospheres. Typically like 2 to 2.5 atmospheres. Don't do any soft shell stuff. It's a Don't do any soft shell stuff. It's a Don't do any soft shell stuff. It's a waste of time. But what do you do? waste of time. But what do you do? waste of time. But what do you do? You're just sitting there. And You're just sitting there. And You're just sitting there. And especially in a heart show, you can't especially in a heart show, you can't especially in a heart show, you can't bring anything in, but they set up TVs. bring anything in, but they set up TVs. bring anything in, but they set up TVs. And so my guilty pleasure turned into And so my guilty pleasure turned into And so my guilty pleasure turned into watching these multiple seasons of watching these multiple seasons of watching these multiple seasons of >> Alone. >> Alone. >> Alone. >> of Alone. So for the season that you >> of Alone. So for the season that you >> of Alone. So for the season that you were a part of were a part of were a part of >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> because the format of the show >> because the format of the show >> because the format of the show changed a bit over time. changed a bit over time. changed a bit over time. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But it was referred to along the lines >> But it was referred to along the lines >> But it was referred to along the lines of kind of the the Super Bowl of of kind of the the Super Bowl of of kind of the the Super Bowl of >> survival. Right. Right. And in your >> survival. Right. Right. And in your >> survival. Right. Right. And in your particular season, season 6, what was particular season, season 6, what was particular season, season 6, what was the format? the format? the format? >> The quick summary of the show is, yeah, >> The quick summary of the show is, yeah, >> The quick summary of the show is, yeah, 10 people go out in the woods all by 10 people go out in the woods all by 10 people go out in the woods all by yourself. You self- film and you get to yourself. You self- film and you get to yourself. You self- film and you get to pick 10 basic tools like an axe and a pick 10 basic tools like an axe and a pick 10 basic tools like an axe and a ferro rod and a sleeping bag and a few ferro rod and a sleeping bag and a few ferro rod and a sleeping bag and a few things like that. And then they drop you things like that. And then they drop you things like that. And then they drop you all off in different areas in the all off in different areas in the all off in different areas in the wilderness. And the person that lasts wilderness. And the person that lasts wilderness. And the person that lasts the longest wins and hypothetically, you the longest wins and hypothetically, you the longest wins and hypothetically, you know, indefinitely, I think maybe there know, indefinitely, I think maybe there know, indefinitely, I think maybe there was a year cut off, but hypothetically a was a year cut off, but hypothetically a was a year cut off, but hypothetically a year plus, you might stay out there if year plus, you might stay out there if year plus, you might stay out there if people really get into a groove. So, people really get into a groove. So, people really get into a groove. So, yeah, that was the format of the season. yeah, that was the format of the season. yeah, that was the format of the season. It's a fairly simple concept. It's a fairly simple concept. It's a fairly simple concept. >> What was the location? >> What was the location? >> What was the location? >> Northwest Territories, Canada. So, we're >> Northwest Territories, Canada. So, we're >> Northwest Territories, Canada. So, we're just south of the Arctic Circle. just south of the Arctic Circle. just south of the Arctic Circle. >> Not warm. >> Not warm. >> Not warm. >> Not warm. Not warm. But conveniently, >> Not warm. Not warm. But conveniently, >> Not warm. Not warm. But conveniently, very similar parallel to where I was in very similar parallel to where I was in very similar parallel to where I was in Siberia. So Siberia. So Siberia. So >> yeah, I it seems like having watched two >> yeah, I it seems like having watched two >> yeah, I it seems like having watched two seasons and some other shows also that I seasons and some other shows also that I seasons and some other shows also that I mean Alone is my favorite. I mean you mean Alone is my favorite. I mean you mean Alone is my favorite. I mean you learn so much if you're into any degree learn so much if you're into any degree learn so much if you're into any degree of of of >> this is a great show. Honestly, >> this is a great show. Honestly, >> this is a great show. Honestly, >> you really learn a lot because you get >> you really learn a lot because you get >> you really learn a lot because you get to see a lot of different approaches and to see a lot of different approaches and to see a lot of different approaches and what seems to work and what doesn't. And what seems to work and what doesn't. And what seems to work and what doesn't. And there are multiple approaches that seem there are multiple approaches that seem there are multiple approaches that seem to work. to work. to work. >> Yep. Just don't build a cabin. >> Yep. Just don't build a cabin. >> Yep. Just don't build a cabin. >> Just kidding. just DIY. I mean, no, >> Just kidding. just DIY. I mean, no, >> Just kidding. just DIY. I mean, no, seriously, don't try to build like seriously, don't try to build like seriously, don't try to build like Abraham Lincoln log cabin. That image in Abraham Lincoln log cabin. That image in Abraham Lincoln log cabin. That image in your mind, don't try to do that. your mind, don't try to do that. your mind, don't try to do that. >> But then you got like stone house in >> But then you got like stone house in >> But then you got like stone house in season 7. I probably wouldn't have tried season 7. I probably wouldn't have tried season 7. I probably wouldn't have tried to do it cuz I'd be afraid of blowing a to do it cuz I'd be afraid of blowing a to do it cuz I'd be afraid of blowing a gasket for sure. gasket for sure. gasket for sure. >> But it worked, right? Very different >> But it worked, right? Very different >> But it worked, right? Very different from the shelter that you built. from the shelter that you built. from the shelter that you built. >> Y >> Y >> Y >> Let's talk about the tools for a second >> Let's talk about the tools for a second >> Let's talk about the tools for a second because there were things that would not because there were things that would not because there were things that would not be obvious to someone watching the show be obvious to someone watching the show be obvious to someone watching the show that I found interesting. For instance, that I found interesting. For instance, that I found interesting. For instance, when we were out in the woods, you when we were out in the woods, you when we were out in the woods, you showed me, showed me, showed me, this is going to require a little this is going to require a little this is going to require a little explanation, so you'll have to explain explanation, so you'll have to explain explanation, so you'll have to explain what basic paracord could be used for, what basic paracord could be used for, what basic paracord could be used for, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But that you've got this >> But that you've got this >> But that you've got this >> looks like a transatlantic cable of >> looks like a transatlantic cable of >> looks like a transatlantic cable of paracord, paracord, paracord, >> which was not allowed on the show. >> which was not allowed on the show. >> which was not allowed on the show. >> It was not allowed. >> It was not allowed. >> It was not allowed. >> You had to have basic, >> You had to have basic, >> You had to have basic, >> but it's a single cord that has like >> but it's a single cord that has like >> but it's a single cord that has like fishing line and filament and fishing line and filament and fishing line and filament and >> all sorts of things. >> all sorts of things. >> all sorts of things. >> Yeah. Super handy little seen. What is >> Yeah. Super handy little seen. What is >> Yeah. Super handy little seen. What is that called? survival cord and it has that called? survival cord and it has that called? survival cord and it has tinder material inside of it. You pull tinder material inside of it. You pull tinder material inside of it. You pull out. It's kind of a wax coated out. It's kind of a wax coated out. It's kind of a wax coated >> thing catches spark well and then it has >> thing catches spark well and then it has >> thing catches spark well and then it has snare like Kevlar cable. So you make a snare like Kevlar cable. So you make a snare like Kevlar cable. So you make a snare and then it has fishing line and snare and then it has fishing line and snare and then it has fishing line and then the regular string that usually then the regular string that usually then the regular string that usually comes in a paracord. comes in a paracord. comes in a paracord. >> And paracord is just string that has an >> And paracord is just string that has an >> And paracord is just string that has an outer sheath and then a bunch of little outer sheath and then a bunch of little outer sheath and then a bunch of little inner strands that are more like inner strands that are more like inner strands that are more like individual strings and they're kind of individual strings and they're kind of individual strings and they're kind of twisted together and make for a strong twisted together and make for a strong twisted together and make for a strong rope or you can break it down into rope or you can break it down into rope or you can break it down into useful bits. Turn it into a gil net. useful bits. Turn it into a gil net. useful bits. Turn it into a gil net. >> Turn into a gil net, >> Turn into a gil net, >> Turn into a gil net, >> which seems to be one of the winning. >> which seems to be one of the winning. >> which seems to be one of the winning. >> Yeah, a gil net's hard to beat. It's >> Yeah, a gil net's hard to beat. It's >> Yeah, a gil net's hard to beat. It's such a passive way of collecting food in such a passive way of collecting food in such a passive way of collecting food in there. What is a gil net? there. What is a gil net? there. What is a gil net? >> A gil net, it's just a big net that you >> A gil net, it's just a big net that you >> A gil net, it's just a big net that you throw in the water and set in the water throw in the water and set in the water throw in the water and set in the water in such a way that fish swimming by get in such a way that fish swimming by get in such a way that fish swimming by get caught in it. Fish can't back up. So, caught in it. Fish can't back up. So, caught in it. Fish can't back up. So, when they swim into a net, if it's sized when they swim into a net, if it's sized when they swim into a net, if it's sized properly to their body and gills, properly to their body and gills, properly to their body and gills, they'll get caught in it and they just they'll get caught in it and they just they'll get caught in it and they just sit there. sit there. sit there. >> So, just for definition of terms, snare >> So, just for definition of terms, snare >> So, just for definition of terms, snare kind of similar, right? in the sense kind of similar, right? in the sense kind of similar, right? in the sense that you're trying to get that you're trying to get that you're trying to get >> a given animal >> a given animal >> a given animal >> around the neck >> around the neck >> around the neck >> and you have to size it properly. >> and you have to size it properly. >> and you have to size it properly. >> Yeah. So snaring is another in an actual >> Yeah. So snaring is another in an actual >> Yeah. So snaring is another in an actual survival situation, it's not the golden survival situation, it's not the golden survival situation, it's not the golden ticket, but incredibly important. You ticket, but incredibly important. You ticket, but incredibly important. You know, it's also usually illegal in most know, it's also usually illegal in most know, it's also usually illegal in most places because it's really effective. places because it's really effective. places because it's really effective. But if you're really starving, yeah, you But if you're really starving, yeah, you But if you're really starving, yeah, you size to what you're trying to catch. So size to what you're trying to catch. So size to what you're trying to catch. So like a hair would be about the size of like a hair would be about the size of like a hair would be about the size of your fist. You make a piece of wire or your fist. You make a piece of wire or your fist. You make a piece of wire or if you only have string, a loop about if you only have string, a loop about if you only have string, a loop about that big, set it on the trail and do that big, set it on the trail and do that big, set it on the trail and do some things to try to some things to try to some things to try to >> Sorry, I'm laughing because another >> Sorry, I'm laughing because another >> Sorry, I'm laughing because another story just came to mind. >> So, in another example of footage you're >> So, in another example of footage you're not going to see on the show. So, I give them points, a medical team So, I give them points, a medical team would come out, would come out, would come out, >> right, and check on participants. And I >> right, and check on participants. And I >> right, and check on participants. And I can't remember the exact parameters, but can't remember the exact parameters, but can't remember the exact parameters, but if you're like losing too much body if you're like losing too much body if you're like losing too much body weight or weight or weight or >> they'd schedule occasional visits to to >> they'd schedule occasional visits to to >> they'd schedule occasional visits to to get your SD cards, give you new get your SD cards, give you new get your SD cards, give you new batteries, and then just make sure batteries, and then just make sure batteries, and then just make sure you're, you're, you're, >> you know, not critically in danger with >> you know, not critically in danger with >> you know, not critically in danger with your health your health your health >> of organ failure or something like that. >> of organ failure or something like that. >> of organ failure or something like that. >> Now, I think you were telling me at one >> Now, I think you were telling me at one >> Now, I think you were telling me at one point when they were doing a medical point when they were doing a medical point when they were doing a medical check for you that you'd set up, remind check for you that you'd set up, remind check for you that you'd set up, remind me of what this called, for squirrel me of what this called, for squirrel me of what this called, for squirrel pole. a squirrel pole cuz squirrels like pole. a squirrel pole cuz squirrels like pole. a squirrel pole cuz squirrels like to run up things and then across to run up things and then across to run up things and then across have a power line in front of your have a power line in front of your have a power line in front of your house. house. house. >> So what what is Yeah, explain how you >> So what what is Yeah, explain how you >> So what what is Yeah, explain how you just roughly how you build this thing. just roughly how you build this thing. just roughly how you build this thing. And And And >> yeah, whatever reason squirrels they >> yeah, whatever reason squirrels they >> yeah, whatever reason squirrels they just love running up things and then just love running up things and then just love running up things and then across things and so you know that's why across things and so you know that's why across things and so you know that's why you see them running on the power lines you see them running on the power lines you see them running on the power lines and everywhere. And so you can take and everywhere. And so you can take and everywhere. And so you can take advantage of that to catch them by advantage of that to catch them by advantage of that to catch them by clearing all the branches off of a clearing all the branches off of a clearing all the branches off of a couple trees and then running a pole couple trees and then running a pole couple trees and then running a pole between those two trees and then between those two trees and then between those two trees and then throwing a couple snares along that pole throwing a couple snares along that pole throwing a couple snares along that pole and eventually some squirrel run up and and eventually some squirrel run up and and eventually some squirrel run up and zip across, especially if you see one in zip across, especially if you see one in zip across, especially if you see one in the area. the area. the area. >> What does that look like when a when a >> What does that look like when a when a >> What does that look like when a when a medical check is being done right medical check is being done right medical check is being done right behind? behind? behind? >> It was kind of funny cuz it was early >> It was kind of funny cuz it was early >> It was kind of funny cuz it was early on. And it was like, you know, maybe the on. And it was like, you know, maybe the on. And it was like, you know, maybe the second week or something. And they they second week or something. And they they second week or something. And they they still had this crew member guy who I still had this crew member guy who I still had this crew member guy who I thought was hilarious cuz they really, thought was hilarious cuz they really, thought was hilarious cuz they really, you know, of course it's alone. So they you know, of course it's alone. So they you know, of course it's alone. So they try to be really stoic. They don't want try to be really stoic. They don't want try to be really stoic. They don't want to give you like actual human to give you like actual human to give you like actual human interaction. But this one guy was just interaction. But this one guy was just interaction. But this one guy was just like, "Whoa, hell yeah. This is like, "Whoa, hell yeah. This is like, "Whoa, hell yeah. This is awesome." Like you really liked what was awesome." Like you really liked what was awesome." Like you really liked what was going on out there. But they all come going on out there. But they all come going on out there. But they all come walking in. walking in. walking in. >> You're set up. >> You're set up. >> You're set up. >> Yeah. For the medical check and scared a >> Yeah. For the medical check and scared a >> Yeah. For the medical check and scared a squirrel and it ran up and hung itself squirrel and it ran up and hung itself squirrel and it ran up and hung itself and it was like sitting there kicking and it was like sitting there kicking and it was like sitting there kicking while the guys walked by. body was that while the guys walked by. body was that while the guys walked by. body was that one British guy in particular. Oh, hell one British guy in particular. Oh, hell one British guy in particular. Oh, hell yeah. I was like, "Oh, man. Thanks, yeah. I was like, "Oh, man. Thanks, yeah. I was like, "Oh, man. Thanks, guys." And so that was kind of funny, guys." And so that was kind of funny, guys." And so that was kind of funny, but they accidentally helped me cheat but they accidentally helped me cheat but they accidentally helped me cheat there. And there. And there. And >> so, how long did you ultimately last? >> so, how long did you ultimately last? >> so, how long did you ultimately last? >> 77 days. >> 77 days. >> 77 days. >> 77. >> 77. >> 77. >> Y. >> Y. >> Y. >> And is it fair to say that last is the >> And is it fair to say that last is the >> And is it fair to say that last is the wrong word to use? Because my wrong word to use? Because my wrong word to use? Because my understanding in conversations with you understanding in conversations with you understanding in conversations with you is that it was of course the television is that it was of course the television is that it was of course the television has to be edited in such a way. has to be edited in such a way. has to be edited in such a way. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That everyone is going through this >> That everyone is going through this >> That everyone is going through this crucible with crucible with crucible with >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> you know coming close to glancing off >> you know coming close to glancing off >> you know coming close to glancing off the breaking point and so on. the breaking point and so on. the breaking point and so on. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Right. Right. Right. >> But it doesn't seem like it was that >> But it doesn't seem like it was that >> But it doesn't seem like it was that hard for you. hard for you. hard for you. >> It really wasn't. It could have been >> It really wasn't. It could have been >> It really wasn't. It could have been like you know it's the woods. You never like you know it's the woods. You never like you know it's the woods. You never know what's going to happen. But man it know what's going to happen. But man it know what's going to happen. But man it was going really well. I actually, you was going really well. I actually, you was going really well. I actually, you know, I snared a bunch of rabbits. Had know, I snared a bunch of rabbits. Had know, I snared a bunch of rabbits. Had like 20 something plus rabbits before I like 20 something plus rabbits before I like 20 something plus rabbits before I got the moose, which I got a moose at got the moose, which I got a moose at got the moose, which I got a moose at day 20. And then from then on, I really day 20. And then from then on, I really day 20. And then from then on, I really nailed the fishing. And I just was nailed the fishing. And I just was nailed the fishing. And I just was piling up food like crazy. And just piling up food like crazy. And just piling up food like crazy. And just because of my previous experience for, because of my previous experience for, because of my previous experience for, you know, years at a time in Russia, a you know, years at a time in Russia, a you know, years at a time in Russia, a couple few three four months there just couple few three four months there just couple few three four months there just didn't seem like a long time away from didn't seem like a long time away from didn't seem like a long time away from the family because I knew our the family because I knew our the family because I knew our relationship was strong and Jan Lee relationship was strong and Jan Lee relationship was strong and Jan Lee could handle it and I'd come back and could handle it and I'd come back and could handle it and I'd come back and we'd catch up and it'd all be good. But we'd catch up and it'd all be good. But we'd catch up and it'd all be good. But I bore a lot of stress because I didn't I bore a lot of stress because I didn't I bore a lot of stress because I didn't know how long this show would last, know how long this show would last, know how long this show would last, >> which is something that changed in >> which is something that changed in >> which is something that changed in season 7. Yeah, it was a big difference season 7. Yeah, it was a big difference season 7. Yeah, it was a big difference in season 7 by in the next season they in season 7 by in the next season they in season 7 by in the next season they capped it at 100 days, which had that capped it at 100 days, which had that capped it at 100 days, which had that been my season would have been been my season would have been been my season would have been interesting because I once you get the interesting because I once you get the interesting because I once you get the moose, I could have just basically moose, I could have just basically moose, I could have just basically partied and enjoyed myself. But because partied and enjoyed myself. But because partied and enjoyed myself. But because I got this moose, it almost added it was I got this moose, it almost added it was I got this moose, it almost added it was a lesson that I learned the first large a lesson that I learned the first large a lesson that I learned the first large mammal harvest. mammal harvest. mammal harvest. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> On the show, right? >> On the show, right? >> On the show, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. And something that I really >> Yeah. Yeah. And something that I really >> Yeah. Yeah. And something that I really noticed out there was I should have been noticed out there was I should have been noticed out there was I should have been more present in the moment because I did more present in the moment because I did more present in the moment because I did allow myself to stress about this allow myself to stress about this allow myself to stress about this future. You know, I was like, "Okay, I future. You know, I was like, "Okay, I future. You know, I was like, "Okay, I got a moose. Now I'm getting fish. got a moose. Now I'm getting fish. got a moose. Now I'm getting fish. Surely somebody else is." So, man, we're Surely somebody else is." So, man, we're Surely somebody else is." So, man, we're going to be out here six, eight months, going to be out here six, eight months, going to be out here six, eight months, and I lost some fat, so now I'm going to and I lost some fat, so now I'm going to and I lost some fat, so now I'm going to lose. So, I had like I can't be out here lose. So, I had like I can't be out here lose. So, I had like I can't be out here eight months and lose. So, I was bearing eight months and lose. So, I was bearing eight months and lose. So, I was bearing a lot of stress because I didn't a lot of stress because I didn't a lot of stress because I didn't actually, as much as I would advise actually, as much as I would advise actually, as much as I would advise myself if I were to go on again, like myself if I were to go on again, like myself if I were to go on again, like just be in the present, you know, don't just be in the present, you know, don't just be in the present, you know, don't worry about that future. What happened worry about that future. What happened worry about that future. What happened is I was gunning for 140 days before I is I was gunning for 140 days before I is I was gunning for 140 days before I even thought it might end and hadn't even thought it might end and hadn't even thought it might end and hadn't even allowed the thought to cross my even allowed the thought to cross my even allowed the thought to cross my mind that it would. Had a lot of food to mind that it would. Had a lot of food to mind that it would. Had a lot of food to get there and then it ended at day 77. get there and then it ended at day 77. get there and then it ended at day 77. And I hadn't I can't say I ever thought And I hadn't I can't say I ever thought And I hadn't I can't say I ever thought I was gonna win. I went out there to win I was gonna win. I went out there to win I was gonna win. I went out there to win because I wasn't like trying to prove because I wasn't like trying to prove because I wasn't like trying to prove anything, but I, you know, you try to anything, but I, you know, you try to anything, but I, you know, you try to keep go in stride, keep just see what keep go in stride, keep just see what keep go in stride, keep just see what happens. I'm just going to go out there happens. I'm just going to go out there happens. I'm just going to go out there and see if I can be sustainable. And I and see if I can be sustainable. And I and see if I can be sustainable. And I was genuinely shocked when it ended. And was genuinely shocked when it ended. And was genuinely shocked when it ended. And thought it was going to go quite a bit thought it was going to go quite a bit thought it was going to go quite a bit longer. Let me tackle a couple of things longer. Let me tackle a couple of things longer. Let me tackle a couple of things >> because >> because >> because there there are a number of details that there there are a number of details that there there are a number of details that I think might be instructive to get I think might be instructive to get I think might be instructive to get into. First, let's talk about the basic into. First, let's talk about the basic into. First, let's talk about the basic tools. tools. tools. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I am amazed. I don't want to give too >> I am amazed. I don't want to give too >> I am amazed. I don't want to give too many spoilers, but like one of your many spoilers, but like one of your many spoilers, but like one of your competitors made a shocking decision, competitors made a shocking decision, competitors made a shocking decision, which was to not bring a pharaoh. which was to not bring a pharaoh. which was to not bring a pharaoh. >> That was a very risky maneuver. >> That was a very risky maneuver. >> That was a very risky maneuver. >> Ended up making it work. But in part, he >> Ended up making it work. But in part, he >> Ended up making it work. But in part, he was very good with something called bow was very good with something called bow was very good with something called bow drill. Look up bow drill online. But drill. Look up bow drill online. But drill. Look up bow drill online. But it's using friction to create a fire. it's using friction to create a fire. it's using friction to create a fire. >> But if you're accustomed to using softer >> But if you're accustomed to using softer >> But if you're accustomed to using softer wood and then you go into alpine wood and then you go into alpine wood and then you go into alpine territory Yeah. And it's much much much territory Yeah. And it's much much much territory Yeah. And it's much much much harder wood. You got you got a problem harder wood. You got you got a problem harder wood. You got you got a problem on your hands. on your hands. on your hands. >> Yep. He was able to find a cedar board >> Yep. He was able to find a cedar board >> Yep. He was able to find a cedar board which doesn't grow up there. which doesn't grow up there. which doesn't grow up there. >> You're allowed to use anything that you >> You're allowed to use anything that you >> You're allowed to use anything that you find. So tin cans or barrels or whatever find. So tin cans or barrels or whatever find. So tin cans or barrels or whatever it might be. Effectively human garbage it might be. Effectively human garbage it might be. Effectively human garbage or things that have been washed up on or things that have been washed up on or things that have been washed up on the shore. So 10 basic tools. What did the shore. So 10 basic tools. What did the shore. So 10 basic tools. What did you choose to bring? you choose to bring? you choose to bring? >> I took an axe, a saw, Leatherman, which >> I took an axe, a saw, Leatherman, which >> I took an axe, a saw, Leatherman, which is like a multi-tool. Has a knife and is like a multi-tool. Has a knife and is like a multi-tool. Has a knife and pliers and stuff. and a frying pan and a pliers and stuff. and a frying pan and a pliers and stuff. and a frying pan and a ferro rod, a sleeping bag, a bow, an ferro rod, a sleeping bag, a bow, an ferro rod, a sleeping bag, a bow, an arrow. You get like bows and arrow, a arrow. You get like bows and arrow, a arrow. You get like bows and arrow, a fishing kit, trapping wire, and fishing kit, trapping wire, and fishing kit, trapping wire, and paracord. And trapping wire was just paracord. And trapping wire was just paracord. And trapping wire was just thin gauge solid stainless steel wire. thin gauge solid stainless steel wire. thin gauge solid stainless steel wire. >> Mhm. And then you could create the gil >> Mhm. And then you could create the gil >> Mhm. And then you could create the gil net out of the paracord. net out of the paracord. net out of the paracord. >> Yeah. So I thought about bringing a gil >> Yeah. So I thought about bringing a gil >> Yeah. So I thought about bringing a gil net, but then I just thought I'll bring net, but then I just thought I'll bring net, but then I just thought I'll bring the paracord. like a mega gil net and the paracord. like a mega gil net and the paracord. like a mega gil net and the paracord will come in handy for the paracord will come in handy for the paracord will come in handy for other things too. So other things too. So other things too. So >> what are some common mistakes if you >> what are some common mistakes if you >> what are some common mistakes if you look at what people choose to bring? look at what people choose to bring? look at what people choose to bring? What are certain things they choose to What are certain things they choose to What are certain things they choose to bring? Let's leave aside a gil net, bring? Let's leave aside a gil net, bring? Let's leave aside a gil net, right? Because I already covered that right? Because I already covered that right? Because I already covered that you can create that. you can create that. you can create that. >> Y >> Y >> Y >> what are some other would you say >> what are some other would you say >> what are some other would you say mistakes common? mistakes common? mistakes common? >> I mean I always with my own biases >> I mean I always with my own biases >> I mean I always with my own biases always think when someone doesn't bring always think when someone doesn't bring always think when someone doesn't bring an ax really you know an ax really you know an ax really you know >> but I have my own you know how you going >> but I have my own you know how you going >> but I have my own you know how you going to get through the ice and how are you to get through the ice and how are you to get through the ice and how are you just they're so handy. I brought a saw, just they're so handy. I brought a saw, just they're so handy. I brought a saw, which in hindsight, I probably should which in hindsight, I probably should which in hindsight, I probably should have just brought a gil net and had two have just brought a gil net and had two have just brought a gil net and had two instead of making the one. But I do instead of making the one. But I do instead of making the one. But I do think not bringing a fire starter is a think not bringing a fire starter is a think not bringing a fire starter is a poor choice because it's just so much poor choice because it's just so much poor choice because it's just so much stress. You know, you have to bear so stress. You know, you have to bear so stress. You know, you have to bear so much stress of not letting your fire go much stress of not letting your fire go much stress of not letting your fire go out. Everything's harder. So, you have out. Everything's harder. So, you have out. Everything's harder. So, you have to be really conscious of the fact that to be really conscious of the fact that to be really conscious of the fact that things like staying hydrated is super things like staying hydrated is super things like staying hydrated is super important. And so if there's an extra important. And so if there's an extra important. And so if there's an extra step to hydration, step to hydration, step to hydration, you're going to drink a little bit less you're going to drink a little bit less you're going to drink a little bit less water. water. water. >> Just to be clear, if you're drinking out >> Just to be clear, if you're drinking out >> Just to be clear, if you're drinking out of a natural source, of a natural source, of a natural source, >> you want to boil that water. >> you want to boil that water. >> you want to boil that water. >> Yeah. You typically you'll want to boil >> Yeah. You typically you'll want to boil >> Yeah. You typically you'll want to boil it. So if you're going to boil it and it. So if you're going to boil it and it. So if you're going to boil it and then you have to like start a bow drill then you have to like start a bow drill then you have to like start a bow drill fire to boil your water, then all of a fire to boil your water, then all of a fire to boil your water, then all of a sudden sudden sudden >> you're also burning a lot of calories. >> you're also burning a lot of calories. >> you're also burning a lot of calories. >> Yeah. It just becomes a stressor and you >> Yeah. It just becomes a stressor and you >> Yeah. It just becomes a stressor and you don't want your fire to go out at night don't want your fire to go out at night don't want your fire to go out at night because you got to wake up. So I think because you got to wake up. So I think because you got to wake up. So I think that's a big one. Some people are really that's a big one. Some people are really that's a big one. Some people are really good with bow drills, but I still I good with bow drills, but I still I good with bow drills, but I still I still think it's not worth the tradeoff. still think it's not worth the tradeoff. still think it's not worth the tradeoff. Yeah. Well, I was really into bringing a Yeah. Well, I was really into bringing a Yeah. Well, I was really into bringing a bow. I mean, you do need practice with a bow. I mean, you do need practice with a bow. I mean, you do need practice with a bow to be effective with it, but I can't bow to be effective with it, but I can't bow to be effective with it, but I can't tell you how much time I spent enjoying tell you how much time I spent enjoying tell you how much time I spent enjoying myself just hiking through the woods myself just hiking through the woods myself just hiking through the woods because I could maybe shoot a squirrel because I could maybe shoot a squirrel because I could maybe shoot a squirrel or maybe get a grouse. That's well or maybe get a grouse. That's well or maybe get a grouse. That's well that's something that stood out to me is that's something that stood out to me is that's something that stood out to me is that that that >> and I think one of the stronger >> and I think one of the stronger >> and I think one of the stronger competitors in season 7 did something competitors in season 7 did something competitors in season 7 did something very similar where very similar where very similar where >> it wasn't that you would necessarily go >> it wasn't that you would necessarily go >> it wasn't that you would necessarily go out on a dedicated large mammal or let's out on a dedicated large mammal or let's out on a dedicated large mammal or let's just say you wouldn't go out on a just say you wouldn't go out on a just say you wouldn't go out on a dedicated hunt but if you went out to do dedicated hunt but if you went out to do dedicated hunt but if you went out to do anything you just bring the bow anything you just bring the bow anything you just bring the bow >> take the bow. Yeah. because it's like on >> take the bow. Yeah. because it's like on >> take the bow. Yeah. because it's like on your way to your fishing spot or on your your way to your fishing spot or on your your way to your fishing spot or on your way to get firewood and it just gives way to get firewood and it just gives way to get firewood and it just gives you always something to do and it gives you always something to do and it gives you always something to do and it gives you always that oh is there a rabbit or you always that oh is there a rabbit or you always that oh is there a rabbit or is there you know so you're more engaged is there you know so you're more engaged is there you know so you're more engaged whereas if I hadn't taken the bow there whereas if I hadn't taken the bow there whereas if I hadn't taken the bow there would have been a lot of time whereas would have been a lot of time whereas would have been a lot of time whereas like boy what do I do like boy what do I do like boy what do I do >> how many arrows are you allowed to bring >> how many arrows are you allowed to bring >> how many arrows are you allowed to bring >> nine >> nine >> nine >> nine interesting >> nine interesting >> nine interesting >> yeah I don't know why seems like a lot >> yeah I don't know why seems like a lot >> yeah I don't know why seems like a lot or a little I don't know if they chose or a little I don't know if they chose or a little I don't know if they chose nine nine nine >> committee had a long debate that landed >> committee had a long debate that landed >> committee had a long debate that landed on nine that's actually decent on nine that's actually decent on nine that's actually decent >> substantial number of arrows I never had >> substantial number of arrows I never had >> substantial number of arrows I never had an issue with them. an issue with them. an issue with them. >> What type of tips did you bring? >> What type of tips did you bring? >> What type of tips did you bring? >> So, I brought blunt tips, which are >> So, I brought blunt tips, which are >> So, I brought blunt tips, which are >> kind of like judo points. >> kind of like judo points. >> kind of like judo points. >> Judo points, except they weren't >> Judo points, except they weren't >> Judo points, except they weren't specifically judo points to give a specifically judo points to give a specifically judo points to give a nuance. But yeah, you don't want a sharp nuance. But yeah, you don't want a sharp nuance. But yeah, you don't want a sharp blade when you're shooting small game blade when you're shooting small game blade when you're shooting small game because you don't want to just shoot because you don't want to just shoot because you don't want to just shoot right through the animal. You want to right through the animal. You want to right through the animal. You want to like hit it and blunt force kind of like hit it and blunt force kind of like hit it and blunt force kind of knock it out and kill it. And so for knock it out and kill it. And so for knock it out and kill it. And so for small game, I had five of those. And small game, I had five of those. And small game, I had five of those. And then I had four rod heads. then I had four rod heads. then I had four rod heads. >> Broadheads. >> Broadheads. >> Broadheads. >> Mhm. Which are just sharp blades. How >> Mhm. Which are just sharp blades. How >> Mhm. Which are just sharp blades. How many blades? many blades? many blades? >> Two blade. They were VPA >> Two blade. They were VPA >> Two blade. They were VPA >> like just solid steel broadheads. No, >> like just solid steel broadheads. No, >> like just solid steel broadheads. No, just so that they were tough and I could just so that they were tough and I could just so that they were tough and I could Yeah. sharpen them on the fly and all Yeah. sharpen them on the fly and all Yeah. sharpen them on the fly and all that. that. that. >> So the moose, so corraling or fencing, I >> So the moose, so corraling or fencing, I >> So the moose, so corraling or fencing, I mean fencing gives people an image that mean fencing gives people an image that mean fencing gives people an image that maybe is not exactly the right image, maybe is not exactly the right image, maybe is not exactly the right image, right? right? right? >> But animals are really good at taking >> But animals are really good at taking >> But animals are really good at taking the path of least resistance. It's the path of least resistance. It's the path of least resistance. It's something you employ when you're trying something you employ when you're trying something you employ when you're trying to snare them. When you're trying to do to snare them. When you're trying to do to snare them. When you're trying to do anything to catch an animal, you just anything to catch an animal, you just anything to catch an animal, you just take advantage of the fact that we all take advantage of the fact that we all take advantage of the fact that we all take the path of least resistance. take the path of least resistance. take the path of least resistance. >> What do you do? >> What do you do? >> What do you do? >> I was actually out there and I'd done a >> I was actually out there and I'd done a >> I was actually out there and I'd done a lot of calling, a lot of placing my lot of calling, a lot of placing my lot of calling, a lot of placing my shelter in the proper wind location and shelter in the proper wind location and shelter in the proper wind location and doing all this to try to make a moose doing all this to try to make a moose doing all this to try to make a moose encounter happen. And I had set up a encounter happen. And I had set up a encounter happen. And I had set up a trip wire that would signal a tin can so trip wire that would signal a tin can so trip wire that would signal a tin can so that it would like if a moose came by, I that it would like if a moose came by, I that it would like if a moose came by, I would know. And then I went out, had a would know. And then I went out, had a would know. And then I went out, had a 40 yard shot at a moose and I missed. 40 yard shot at a moose and I missed. 40 yard shot at a moose and I missed. And long story short, it was a big fail And long story short, it was a big fail And long story short, it was a big fail on my part. But I remember watching that on my part. But I remember watching that on my part. But I remember watching that moose run away just like a idiot. Like moose run away just like a idiot. Like moose run away just like a idiot. Like how'd you do that? You know, you get how'd you do that? You know, you get how'd you do that? You know, you get used to screwing up and failing. When used to screwing up and failing. When used to screwing up and failing. When you're in the woods like that by you're in the woods like that by you're in the woods like that by yourself, whining isn't going to help. yourself, whining isn't going to help. yourself, whining isn't going to help. There's nobody else you can blame There's nobody else you can blame There's nobody else you can blame anything on. It's like you literally anything on. It's like you literally anything on. It's like you literally better solve your problem or you're better solve your problem or you're better solve your problem or you're screwed. So it's like I was screwed. So it's like I was screwed. So it's like I was disappointed. I missed the moose, but at disappointed. I missed the moose, but at disappointed. I missed the moose, but at the same time, I was immediately it's the same time, I was immediately it's the same time, I was immediately it's still running away. I was like, how do I still running away. I was like, how do I still running away. I was like, how do I make this happen again? It just made me make this happen again? It just made me make this happen again? It just made me more determined to learn from what I more determined to learn from what I more determined to learn from what I just did. And then as I was watching it just did. And then as I was watching it just did. And then as I was watching it run away, it just kind of dawned on me run away, it just kind of dawned on me run away, it just kind of dawned on me that there's I mean, I don't know how that there's I mean, I don't know how that there's I mean, I don't know how far apart, but say 500 yards, you know, far apart, but say 500 yards, you know, far apart, but say 500 yards, you know, there's just kind of hills, two hills. there's just kind of hills, two hills. there's just kind of hills, two hills. It's not like there were cliffs or It's not like there were cliffs or It's not like there were cliffs or anything, but hills. The animals are anything, but hills. The animals are anything, but hills. The animals are going to go through the low point there going to go through the low point there going to go through the low point there because it's easy. And then I just because it's easy. And then I just because it's easy. And then I just remember, oh, we built those fences in remember, oh, we built those fences in remember, oh, we built those fences in Russia. Like, should I really? because Russia. Like, should I really? because Russia. Like, should I really? because what had happened is it had come on a what had happened is it had come on a what had happened is it had come on a kind of unexpected path. So, I wasn't kind of unexpected path. So, I wasn't kind of unexpected path. So, I wasn't really quite set up to get him, but I really quite set up to get him, but I really quite set up to get him, but I was like, well, I guess I'm not here to was like, well, I guess I'm not here to was like, well, I guess I'm not here to starve. I'm here to make it happen. starve. I'm here to make it happen. starve. I'm here to make it happen. Like, I'm an actionoriented person in Like, I'm an actionoriented person in Like, I'm an actionoriented person in that way. So, I went over there and that way. So, I went over there and that way. So, I went over there and decided to try to build one of those decided to try to build one of those decided to try to build one of those fences and funnel the because I remember fences and funnel the because I remember fences and funnel the because I remember even the natives saying before guns, even the natives saying before guns, even the natives saying before guns, they used to funnel animals with fences they used to funnel animals with fences they used to funnel animals with fences like that. So can you explain when you like that. So can you explain when you like that. So can you explain when you say fence, right? That might involve say fence, right? That might involve say fence, right? That might involve >> chopping down some saplings and kind of >> chopping down some saplings and kind of >> chopping down some saplings and kind of knocking knocking them over knocking knocking them over knocking knocking them over >> basic. Yeah. >> basic. Yeah. >> basic. Yeah. >> So that you're creating obstacles. >> So that you're creating obstacles. >> So that you're creating obstacles. Something like a moose does not want to Something like a moose does not want to Something like a moose does not want to have to step over or navigate. have to step over or navigate. have to step over or navigate. >> So they go kind of where you intend them >> So they go kind of where you intend them >> So they go kind of where you intend them to go. to go. to go. >> Yep. Yep. So, I had kind of set up the >> Yep. Yep. So, I had kind of set up the >> Yep. Yep. So, I had kind of set up the same tin can alarm system and then I had same tin can alarm system and then I had same tin can alarm system and then I had found a nice shooting bush that I could found a nice shooting bush that I could found a nice shooting bush that I could shoot from and get to with relative shoot from and get to with relative shoot from and get to with relative cover. And then I built a fence. I cover. And then I built a fence. I cover. And then I built a fence. I hadn't even finished it when it ended up hadn't even finished it when it ended up hadn't even finished it when it ended up working. But with the natives, we do working. But with the natives, we do working. But with the natives, we do four rows. So, four rows of thick logs four rows. So, four rows of thick logs four rows. So, four rows of thick logs kind of stacked in such a way that they kind of stacked in such a way that they kind of stacked in such a way that they hold up into a fence look. hold up into a fence look. hold up into a fence look. >> Okay. So, it did look like >> Okay. So, it did look like >> Okay. So, it did look like >> it did look like a fence when it's done, >> it did look like a fence when it's done, >> it did look like a fence when it's done, but I just initially did one rung, you but I just initially did one rung, you but I just initially did one rung, you know, like so the first rung know, like so the first rung know, like so the first rung >> and ran it all the way across. >> and ran it all the way across. >> and ran it all the way across. >> How long did that take to create? >> How long did that take to create? >> How long did that take to create? >> Probably a couple days. Sounds like >> Probably a couple days. Sounds like >> Probably a couple days. Sounds like >> Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of work and I >> Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of work and I >> Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of work and I was like, was like, was like, >> it was a calorie risk and expenditure, >> it was a calorie risk and expenditure, >> it was a calorie risk and expenditure, but it was clear I wasn't going to win but it was clear I wasn't going to win but it was clear I wasn't going to win if I was starving. And so I was just I if I was starving. And so I was just I if I was starving. And so I was just I want to like get food. And so I built want to like get food. And so I built want to like get food. And so I built that funnel. And then actually not long that funnel. And then actually not long that funnel. And then actually not long after I was out pulling a again, I after I was out pulling a again, I after I was out pulling a again, I hadn't even finished it yet. I was hadn't even finished it yet. I was hadn't even finished it yet. I was pulling a rabbit out of a snare of all pulling a rabbit out of a snare of all pulling a rabbit out of a snare of all things. And I heard that can clank. I things. And I heard that can clank. I things. And I heard that can clank. I was like, "Oh, what is something's was like, "Oh, what is something's was like, "Oh, what is something's coming? No way." Ran over there, snuck coming? No way." Ran over there, snuck coming? No way." Ran over there, snuck up to the bush, and that moose just came up to the bush, and that moose just came up to the bush, and that moose just came strolling along my fence to the opening strolling along my fence to the opening strolling along my fence to the opening where I was. And it it worked amazingly where I was. And it it worked amazingly where I was. And it it worked amazingly well. You It was the morning after I'd well. You It was the morning after I'd well. You It was the morning after I'd spent the whole evening calling the spent the whole evening calling the spent the whole evening calling the moose and was able to put an arrow in moose and was able to put an arrow in moose and was able to put an arrow in it. And what was the distance on that? it. And what was the distance on that? it. And what was the distance on that? >> Like 24 yards. >> Like 24 yards. >> Like 24 yards. >> See, I mean that's like right that's the >> See, I mean that's like right that's the >> See, I mean that's like right that's the payoff. 40 yards. I mean look. payoff. 40 yards. I mean look. payoff. 40 yards. I mean look. >> Yeah. Recurve. >> Yeah. Recurve. >> Yeah. Recurve. >> I mean I do a lot of recurve and I would >> I mean I do a lot of recurve and I would >> I mean I do a lot of recurve and I would not put money on myself for 40 yard shot not put money on myself for 40 yard shot not put money on myself for 40 yard shot on a moving target. on a moving target. on a moving target. >> Nor would I but when you're starving. >> Nor would I but when you're starving. >> Nor would I but when you're starving. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. A couple shots it's >> Yeah. Oh yeah. A couple shots it's >> Yeah. Oh yeah. A couple shots it's actually doable. You can kind of actually doable. You can kind of actually doable. You can kind of correct. But in my miss I had only had correct. But in my miss I had only had correct. But in my miss I had only had one arrow with me at the time. So, I hit one arrow with me at the time. So, I hit one arrow with me at the time. So, I hit it and it was actually felt like a it and it was actually felt like a it and it was actually felt like a really good shot, but he took off and I really good shot, but he took off and I really good shot, but he took off and I was like, you know, I'm gonna wait an was like, you know, I'm gonna wait an was like, you know, I'm gonna wait an hour, let him kind of just calmly, you hour, let him kind of just calmly, you hour, let him kind of just calmly, you know, if you're bow hunting, one thing know, if you're bow hunting, one thing know, if you're bow hunting, one thing you realize is like a lot of times the you realize is like a lot of times the you realize is like a lot of times the animal doesn't see you when you shoot it animal doesn't see you when you shoot it animal doesn't see you when you shoot it and it's quiet and it gets hit. It and it's quiet and it gets hit. It and it's quiet and it gets hit. It doesn't know what happened. So, it's doesn't know what happened. So, it's doesn't know what happened. So, it's going to run over somewhere and like lay going to run over somewhere and like lay going to run over somewhere and like lay down. It doesn't feel good. And so down. It doesn't feel good. And so down. It doesn't feel good. And so usually that first place it lays down usually that first place it lays down usually that first place it lays down because it doesn't think it's getting because it doesn't think it's getting because it doesn't think it's getting chased per se, it just lays there and chased per se, it just lays there and chased per se, it just lays there and then it slowly bleeds out and it's, you then it slowly bleeds out and it's, you then it slowly bleeds out and it's, you know, about as calm of a way you can know, about as calm of a way you can know, about as calm of a way you can probably go as a wild animal. But what probably go as a wild animal. But what probably go as a wild animal. But what happens if you get too eager and start happens if you get too eager and start happens if you get too eager and start running after this animal you put an running after this animal you put an running after this animal you put an arrow in is it'll if it sees you, it'll arrow in is it'll if it sees you, it'll arrow in is it'll if it sees you, it'll then know it's getting chased and then know it's getting chased and then know it's getting chased and they'll get this second wind and just they'll get this second wind and just they'll get this second wind and just take off and run. And by then they'll no take off and run. And by then they'll no take off and run. And by then they'll no longer be bleeding as much. And very longer be bleeding as much. And very longer be bleeding as much. And very often people lose animals like that. So often people lose animals like that. So often people lose animals like that. So fortunately I was aware of that. Waited fortunately I was aware of that. Waited fortunately I was aware of that. Waited a good long time and then a good long time and then a good long time and then >> you waited a while also. I mean more >> you waited a while also. I mean more >> you waited a while also. I mean more than an hour ultimately. than an hour ultimately. than an hour ultimately. >> Yeah it was about an hour and then I >> Yeah it was about an hour and then I >> Yeah it was about an hour and then I started tracking it and great blood started tracking it and great blood started tracking it and great blood trail and then it just started to dry up trail and then it just started to dry up trail and then it just started to dry up and the ground had been like an old burn and the ground had been like an old burn and the ground had been like an old burn and so it was hard and there weren't and so it was hard and there weren't and so it was hard and there weren't tracks and I was like no way am I going tracks and I was like no way am I going tracks and I was like no way am I going to lose this mood. You start getting to lose this mood. You start getting to lose this mood. You start getting stressed like no way. and I that lost stressed like no way. and I that lost stressed like no way. and I that lost its blood trail and it was just sitting its blood trail and it was just sitting its blood trail and it was just sitting there thinking I was like, "Well, the there thinking I was like, "Well, the there thinking I was like, "Well, the last thing I can do is it's going to last thing I can do is it's going to last thing I can do is it's going to take the path of least resistance once take the path of least resistance once take the path of least resistance once again, particularly when it's wounded." again, particularly when it's wounded." again, particularly when it's wounded." So, I did it a few times where I stood So, I did it a few times where I stood So, I did it a few times where I stood in the woods and then you just kind of in the woods and then you just kind of in the woods and then you just kind of walk through as if you were going to go walk through as if you were going to go walk through as if you were going to go where does it take you, you know, and go where does it take you, you know, and go where does it take you, you know, and go with the flow. And sure enough, 500 with the flow. And sure enough, 500 with the flow. And sure enough, 500 yards up or whatever, there it was yards up or whatever, there it was yards up or whatever, there it was laying there. Oh, no way. Duck down and laying there. Oh, no way. Duck down and laying there. Oh, no way. Duck down and it was still alive. And so, I was 50 it was still alive. And so, I was 50 it was still alive. And so, I was 50 something yards away. And it's like, something yards away. And it's like, something yards away. And it's like, man, I can either try to stick another man, I can either try to stick another man, I can either try to stick another arrow in it, in which case it's either arrow in it, in which case it's either arrow in it, in which case it's either going to run away, maybe I kill it, or going to run away, maybe I kill it, or going to run away, maybe I kill it, or maybe it charges me. And got a 30% maybe it charges me. And got a 30% maybe it charges me. And got a 30% chance of each. So, my best bet is to chance of each. So, my best bet is to chance of each. So, my best bet is to just watch it and let it calmly finish just watch it and let it calmly finish just watch it and let it calmly finish its process. And so, that was a very its process. And so, that was a very its process. And so, that was a very long couple hours, honestly, watching long couple hours, honestly, watching long couple hours, honestly, watching it. It would stand up and I' my heart it. It would stand up and I' my heart it. It would stand up and I' my heart would sink like, "No, no, no." And then would sink like, "No, no, no." And then would sink like, "No, no, no." And then it would lay back down like, "Ah, yes." it would lay back down like, "Ah, yes." it would lay back down like, "Ah, yes." It would stand up. It was a very It would stand up. It was a very It would stand up. It was a very emotional roller coaster. And finally it emotional roller coaster. And finally it emotional roller coaster. And finally it stood up and tipped over and we were stood up and tipped over and we were stood up and tipped over and we were talking about earlier but the joy that I talking about earlier but the joy that I talking about earlier but the joy that I felt was irreplaceable. And I almost felt was irreplaceable. And I almost felt was irreplaceable. And I almost can't match it. I just that demon of can't match it. I just that demon of can't match it. I just that demon of starvation that for 3 weeks now just starvation that for 3 weeks now just starvation that for 3 weeks now just chewing out. You're going to starve. chewing out. You're going to starve. chewing out. You're going to starve. You're going to starve. You slayed that. You're going to starve. You slayed that. You're going to starve. You slayed that. >> How much meat do you get off a moose >> How much meat do you get off a moose >> How much meat do you get off a moose like that? like that? like that? >> Oh, it was hard to say. I probably had >> Oh, it was hard to say. I probably had >> Oh, it was hard to say. I probably had I'd be a little bit guessing maybe four I'd be a little bit guessing maybe four I'd be a little bit guessing maybe four or 500 lb. I don't know. or 500 lb. I don't know. or 500 lb. I don't know. >> Yeah, it's a big animal. >> Yeah, it's a big animal. >> Yeah, it's a big animal. >> Yeah, big animal. And then you have all >> Yeah, big animal. And then you have all >> Yeah, big animal. And then you have all the bone marrow and the brain and you the bone marrow and the brain and you the bone marrow and the brain and you know organ stuff. Talk about I don't know organ stuff. Talk about I don't know organ stuff. Talk about I don't know if people like eating liver but I know if people like eating liver but I know if people like eating liver but I got myself sick of it. You got a liver got myself sick of it. You got a liver got myself sick of it. You got a liver the size of my body, you know, and I got the size of my body, you know, and I got the size of my body, you know, and I got there's no way to preserve it. So you there's no way to preserve it. So you there's no way to preserve it. So you got to eat that thing first. got to eat that thing first. got to eat that thing first. >> Why can't you preserve the liver versus >> Why can't you preserve the liver versus >> Why can't you preserve the liver versus other things? other things? other things? >> Usually things that are really bloody, >> Usually things that are really bloody, >> Usually things that are really bloody, you know, like have a lot of blood and you know, like have a lot of blood and you know, like have a lot of blood and them spoil fast. So same with like fish. them spoil fast. So same with like fish. them spoil fast. So same with like fish. If you catch a fish, there's a blood If you catch a fish, there's a blood If you catch a fish, there's a blood line in there that you want to scrape line in there that you want to scrape line in there that you want to scrape out or it'll spoil. out or it'll spoil. out or it'll spoil. >> Okay? >> Okay? >> Okay? >> And the gills carry blood, so you want >> And the gills carry blood, so you want >> And the gills carry blood, so you want to rip those out or it'll spoil. Any to rip those out or it'll spoil. Any to rip those out or it'll spoil. Any animal that you're going to preserve, animal that you're going to preserve, animal that you're going to preserve, you just want to make sure it's bled you just want to make sure it's bled you just want to make sure it's bled really well. And liver, for whatever really well. And liver, for whatever really well. And liver, for whatever reason, is just reason, is just reason, is just >> saturated. >> saturated. >> saturated. >> Saturated. And there's no way to drain >> Saturated. And there's no way to drain >> Saturated. And there's no way to drain it, you know. So, oh man, I plenty of it, you know. So, oh man, I plenty of it, you know. So, oh man, I plenty of vitamins there for a while. >> God, I'm just thinking of the OD of >> God, I'm just thinking of the OD of vitamins that you Ah, you know. Yeah, vitamins that you Ah, you know. Yeah, vitamins that you Ah, you know. Yeah, it's a little bit of a concern. it's a little bit of a concern. it's a little bit of a concern. >> Yeah. For you adventurous eaters out >> Yeah. For you adventurous eaters out >> Yeah. For you adventurous eaters out there, don't eat a polar bear liver in there, don't eat a polar bear liver in there, don't eat a polar bear liver in one sitting. one sitting. one sitting. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's fatal. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's fatal. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's fatal. >> Vitamin A will do you in. >> Vitamin A will do you in. >> Vitamin A will do you in. >> So, you mentioned you had some fat >> So, you mentioned you had some fat >> So, you mentioned you had some fat stolen. stolen. stolen. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Noticed >> Noticed >> Noticed some very unique earrings on your wife some very unique earrings on your wife some very unique earrings on your wife this morning. this morning. this morning. >> These may tie together. >> These may tie together. >> These may tie together. >> Yeah, they do. So happens to tie >> Yeah, they do. So happens to tie >> Yeah, they do. So happens to tie together. together. together. >> What were the earrings, >> What were the earrings, >> What were the earrings, >> man? So, you know, you're out there and >> man? So, you know, you're out there and >> man? So, you know, you're out there and things are going well, but you're still things are going well, but you're still things are going well, but you're still living on the edge, you know, and little living on the edge, you know, and little living on the edge, you know, and little mistakes can be the difference between mistakes can be the difference between mistakes can be the difference between surviving or not. And so, surviving or not. And so, surviving or not. And so, >> you know, even the process of keeping >> you know, even the process of keeping >> you know, even the process of keeping your self hydrated, like we tal about is your self hydrated, like we tal about is your self hydrated, like we tal about is is elaborate and involved and thought is elaborate and involved and thought is elaborate and involved and thought out. out. out. >> Walk into your fishing hole, it's like, >> Walk into your fishing hole, it's like, >> Walk into your fishing hole, it's like, oh, I better take some ash so I can oh, I better take some ash so I can oh, I better take some ash so I can sprinkle on the really icy spots. And, sprinkle on the really icy spots. And, sprinkle on the really icy spots. And, you know, everything's thought out. And you know, everything's thought out. And you know, everything's thought out. And so the last thing you need is this whole so the last thing you need is this whole so the last thing you need is this whole extra variable coming in and adding a extra variable coming in and adding a extra variable coming in and adding a bunch of difficulty. Well, one morning I bunch of difficulty. Well, one morning I bunch of difficulty. Well, one morning I went out and I'd set my meat out on a went out and I'd set my meat out on a went out and I'd set my meat out on a shelf with this like kind of shelf with this like kind of shelf with this like kind of half-hearted, not half-hearted, but you half-hearted, not half-hearted, but you half-hearted, not half-hearted, but you know, maybe a barrel come and if a bear know, maybe a barrel come and if a bear know, maybe a barrel come and if a bear comes, I can shoot that from my shelter. comes, I can shoot that from my shelter. comes, I can shoot that from my shelter. So, I could maybe double up and get it So, I could maybe double up and get it So, I could maybe double up and get it almost like a ready-made bait pile. But almost like a ready-made bait pile. But almost like a ready-made bait pile. But I hadn't even really thought about the I hadn't even really thought about the I hadn't even really thought about the fact is that there's wolverines up there fact is that there's wolverines up there fact is that there's wolverines up there and that they might show up and I might and that they might show up and I might and that they might show up and I might not hear it or notice it as much. And so not hear it or notice it as much. And so not hear it or notice it as much. And so I came out one morning and I stored I came out one morning and I stored I came out one morning and I stored probably 90,000 calories worth of fat in probably 90,000 calories worth of fat in probably 90,000 calories worth of fat in this gallon jug. I don't know how much this gallon jug. I don't know how much this gallon jug. I don't know how much is in a gallon, but full gallon of fat. is in a gallon, but full gallon of fat. is in a gallon, but full gallon of fat. And I came out and there was like the And I came out and there was like the And I came out and there was like the day I was like, "Okay, I'm going to day I was like, "Okay, I'm going to day I was like, "Okay, I'm going to render that fat." And I started looking render that fat." And I started looking render that fat." And I started looking around like, "What are these tracks?" around like, "What are these tracks?" around like, "What are these tracks?" Like, "Huh, that's interesting." Like, Like, "Huh, that's interesting." Like, Like, "Huh, that's interesting." Like, and then you slowly start to have and then you slowly start to have and then you slowly start to have something dawn on you like no. And then something dawn on you like no. And then something dawn on you like no. And then I noticed my jug was gone. And then I I noticed my jug was gone. And then I I noticed my jug was gone. And then I was like, "Oh, those are Wolverine was like, "Oh, those are Wolverine was like, "Oh, those are Wolverine tracks." And like, "Oh, no." Oh, it was tracks." And like, "Oh, no." Oh, it was tracks." And like, "Oh, no." Oh, it was like ran down the tracks pointless. That like ran down the tracks pointless. That like ran down the tracks pointless. That thing's long gone. And so I came back thing's long gone. And so I came back thing's long gone. And so I came back and I was like, "Oh no, I'm like got a and I was like, "Oh no, I'm like got a and I was like, "Oh no, I'm like got a Wolverine here." And one thing you Wolverine here." And one thing you Wolverine here." And one thing you notice about the woods when you have notice about the woods when you have notice about the woods when you have meat, every forest freeloader knows you meat, every forest freeloader knows you meat, every forest freeloader knows you have the meat. And so like all the jays have the meat. And so like all the jays have the meat. And so like all the jays and all the, you know, the wolves were and all the, you know, the wolves were and all the, you know, the wolves were coming around and the wolverine now and coming around and the wolverine now and coming around and the wolverine now and just everybody's coming to get your just everybody's coming to get your just everybody's coming to get your meat. And that wolverine, they're known meat. And that wolverine, they're known meat. And that wolverine, they're known as being some of the most ferocious as being some of the most ferocious as being some of the most ferocious animals on Earth. And they're like that animals on Earth. And they're like that animals on Earth. And they're like that Honey Badger video everybody's seen, but Honey Badger video everybody's seen, but Honey Badger video everybody's seen, but they're much larger and on steroids. they're much larger and on steroids. they're much larger and on steroids. >> It's technically in the weasel family. >> It's technically in the weasel family. >> It's technically in the weasel family. >> It's like if you took a weasel and put >> It's like if you took a weasel and put >> It's like if you took a weasel and put it on every performance-enhancing drug it on every performance-enhancing drug it on every performance-enhancing drug imaginable imaginable imaginable >> like Dolph Lungren and Rocky Form and >> like Dolph Lungren and Rocky Form and >> like Dolph Lungren and Rocky Form and gave it on top of that just like a very gave it on top of that just like a very gave it on top of that just like a very irritable combative demeanor. Like irritable combative demeanor. Like irritable combative demeanor. Like >> I mean they're not huge like 40 lbs or >> I mean they're not huge like 40 lbs or >> I mean they're not huge like 40 lbs or whatever, but they fight off wolf packs. whatever, but they fight off wolf packs. whatever, but they fight off wolf packs. They take down full grown moose. So, They take down full grown moose. So, They take down full grown moose. So, just think about that for a second, just think about that for a second, just think about that for a second, guys. 40 lb animal. How much does a guys. 40 lb animal. How much does a guys. 40 lb animal. How much does a moose weigh? moose weigh? moose weigh? >> Like 1,000 pounds. >> Like 1,000 pounds. >> Like 1,000 pounds. >> I mean, that's insane. >> I mean, that's insane. >> I mean, that's insane. >> You just grab on and there's been >> You just grab on and there's been >> You just grab on and there's been stories of them holding on to a moose's stories of them holding on to a moose's stories of them holding on to a moose's neck for days until the thing suffocates neck for days until the thing suffocates neck for days until the thing suffocates of blood loss and dies. Just like of blood loss and dies. Just like of blood loss and dies. Just like >> so terrifying. And so, they make up for >> so terrifying. And so, they make up for >> so terrifying. And so, they make up for their size and just being aggressive. their size and just being aggressive. their size and just being aggressive. And I was my first time really dealing And I was my first time really dealing And I was my first time really dealing with one like that. He kept surprising with one like that. He kept surprising with one like that. He kept surprising me with how bold he was, you know, kind me with how bold he was, you know, kind me with how bold he was, you know, kind of figure, okay, that'll take care of of figure, okay, that'll take care of of figure, okay, that'll take care of it. And then all of a sudden, whoa, it. And then all of a sudden, whoa, it. And then all of a sudden, whoa, right in front of me, you know, he run right in front of me, you know, he run right in front of me, you know, he run by and grab a chunk of meat and run off. by and grab a chunk of meat and run off. by and grab a chunk of meat and run off. No way. And so, basically, there was it No way. And so, basically, there was it No way. And so, basically, there was it came down to the fact that it was either came down to the fact that it was either came down to the fact that it was either me or him on this island. And that was me or him on this island. And that was me or him on this island. And that was very clear. And he was claiming my meat very clear. And he was claiming my meat very clear. And he was claiming my meat and this and that. And I made a long and this and that. And I made a long and this and that. And I made a long trip wire again for him with the can. trip wire again for him with the can. trip wire again for him with the can. >> With the can, which it proved to be a >> With the can, which it proved to be a >> With the can, which it proved to be a really useful tool. And then one night I really useful tool. And then one night I really useful tool. And then one night I heard that thing clank came out of my heard that thing clank came out of my heard that thing clank came out of my shelter. This was after the previous shelter. This was after the previous shelter. This was after the previous night of the similar situation happening night of the similar situation happening night of the similar situation happening and I didn't take a shot at the and I didn't take a shot at the and I didn't take a shot at the wolverine because he was behind a bush. wolverine because he was behind a bush. wolverine because he was behind a bush. And so this next night I was like I'm And so this next night I was like I'm And so this next night I was like I'm just if I get a chance I'm going to take just if I get a chance I'm going to take just if I get a chance I'm going to take it. I came out and he was behind a bush. it. I came out and he was behind a bush. it. I came out and he was behind a bush. I could see his eyes glowing and I just I could see his eyes glowing and I just I could see his eyes glowing and I just sent an arrow in there and it ricocheted sent an arrow in there and it ricocheted sent an arrow in there and it ricocheted through and hit him but I could see him through and hit him but I could see him through and hit him but I could see him spinning around. I didn't know what was spinning around. I didn't know what was spinning around. I didn't know what was exactly how I had hit him. I just exactly how I had hit him. I just exactly how I had hit him. I just grabbed the axe and ran over there and I grabbed the axe and ran over there and I grabbed the axe and ran over there and I got over there and he lunged at me. I got over there and he lunged at me. I got over there and he lunged at me. I could see like could see like could see like >> pinned him to the ground. >> pinned him to the ground. >> pinned him to the ground. >> Yeah, he had been pinned to the ground >> Yeah, he had been pinned to the ground >> Yeah, he had been pinned to the ground and the part of the arrow was stuck in and the part of the arrow was stuck in and the part of the arrow was stuck in the ground and part of it was hung up in the ground and part of it was hung up in the ground and part of it was hung up in the alders. So, it like caught his lunge the alders. So, it like caught his lunge the alders. So, it like caught his lunge and I swung and it, you know, and I swung and it, you know, and I swung and it, you know, eviscerated him and then he spun around eviscerated him and then he spun around eviscerated him and then he spun around and was like grabbing at his own injury and was like grabbing at his own injury and was like grabbing at his own injury and then I swung again and again, you and then I swung again and again, you and then I swung again and again, you know, but but I definitely have this know, but but I definitely have this know, but but I definitely have this mental image of his teeth and his jump mental image of his teeth and his jump mental image of his teeth and his jump right at me like right at me like right at me like he was bent. Yeah, it was good. It was he was bent. Yeah, it was good. It was he was bent. Yeah, it was good. It was pinned. I mean, I I think I would have pinned. I mean, I I think I would have pinned. I mean, I I think I would have still won, but we would have both still won, but we would have both still won, but we would have both suffered a lot more. suffered a lot more. suffered a lot more. >> I think you would have suffered. >> I think you would have suffered. >> I think you would have suffered. >> I would have suffered a lot more. I was >> I would have suffered a lot more. I was >> I would have suffered a lot more. I was hoping I would win. hoping I would win. hoping I would win. >> It was in It was a very primal moment. >> It was in It was a very primal moment. >> It was in It was a very primal moment. That's all I can say about it. The moose That's all I can say about it. The moose That's all I can say about it. The moose was so thoughtful and the Wolverine was was so thoughtful and the Wolverine was was so thoughtful and the Wolverine was just one of those things where like, just one of those things where like, just one of those things where like, what just happened? Like, that was what just happened? Like, that was what just happened? Like, that was crazy. Like, I can't believe that just crazy. Like, I can't believe that just crazy. Like, I can't believe that just happened. Anyway, it solved this problem happened. Anyway, it solved this problem happened. Anyway, it solved this problem that had been harrowing me for weeks by that had been harrowing me for weeks by that had been harrowing me for weeks by that point. It was pretty liberating. that point. It was pretty liberating. that point. It was pretty liberating. how his claws have been turned into your how his claws have been turned into your how his claws have been turned into your >> And so I had to make some earrings out >> And so I had to make some earrings out >> And so I had to make some earrings out of those claws and gift them to my wife. of those claws and gift them to my wife. of those claws and gift them to my wife. They're pretty nice. So to bring in They're pretty nice. So to bring in They're pretty nice. So to bring in something that I don't think people something that I don't think people something that I don't think people would pick up on watching season 6, would pick up on watching season 6, would pick up on watching season 6, there's a point where, as I think you there's a point where, as I think you there's a point where, as I think you put it to me when we were out in the put it to me when we were out in the put it to me when we were out in the woods, you were like in effect, right up woods, you were like in effect, right up woods, you were like in effect, right up to that point, to that point, to that point, >> you'd been making plans, executing the >> you'd been making plans, executing the >> you'd been making plans, executing the plan, plan, plan, >> sort of living on offense, if that makes >> sort of living on offense, if that makes >> sort of living on offense, if that makes sense. sense. sense. >> But you kill a Wolverine. And so there's >> But you kill a Wolverine. And so there's >> But you kill a Wolverine. And so there's this kind of mystery in the show. people this kind of mystery in the show. people this kind of mystery in the show. people might not immediately pick up on which might not immediately pick up on which might not immediately pick up on which is not the only Wolverine around. Right. is not the only Wolverine around. Right. is not the only Wolverine around. Right. >> We were allowed to kill one Wolverine. >> We were allowed to kill one Wolverine. >> We were allowed to kill one Wolverine. >> Well, that's the thing, right? You had >> Well, that's the thing, right? You had >> Well, that's the thing, right? You had like tags. You still have to follow like tags. You still have to follow like tags. You still have to follow these rules. these rules. these rules. >> It's not something that is >> It's not something that is >> It's not something that is >> Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't able to kill every >> Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't able to kill every >> Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't able to kill every Wolverine out there. Wolverine out there. Wolverine out there. >> Omitted from the final cut. >> Omitted from the final cut. >> Omitted from the final cut. >> I only had about a day of relief before >> I only had about a day of relief before >> I only had about a day of relief before I heard another Wolverine. I was like, I heard another Wolverine. I was like, I heard another Wolverine. I was like, "No." But this time I was in defense and "No." But this time I was in defense and "No." But this time I was in defense and it just so happened to line up with a it just so happened to line up with a it just so happened to line up with a time of year where I had this very time of year where I had this very time of year where I had this very tangible mental shift that went from me tangible mental shift that went from me tangible mental shift that went from me being in that, you know, when you're in being in that, you know, when you're in being in that, you know, when you're in fight or flight, I was in fight, I was fight or flight, I was in fight, I was fight or flight, I was in fight, I was in like a proactive mode, like you say, in like a proactive mode, like you say, in like a proactive mode, like you say, making plans, making things happen. making plans, making things happen. making plans, making things happen. Well, now the ice was freezing on the Well, now the ice was freezing on the Well, now the ice was freezing on the lake and I couldn't go out and fish and lake and I couldn't go out and fish and lake and I couldn't go out and fish and so couldn't fish. At least in the normal so couldn't fish. At least in the normal so couldn't fish. At least in the normal way. way. way. >> Yeah, in the normal way. I couldn't even >> Yeah, in the normal way. I couldn't even >> Yeah, in the normal way. I couldn't even walk on the ice to ice fish yet, right? walk on the ice to ice fish yet, right? walk on the ice to ice fish yet, right? So, there's a couple week period there So, there's a couple week period there So, there's a couple week period there where it's just hard to fish. And then I where it's just hard to fish. And then I where it's just hard to fish. And then I had all the rabbits I needed. Honestly, had all the rabbits I needed. Honestly, had all the rabbits I needed. Honestly, I had so much protein with the moose I had so much protein with the moose I had so much protein with the moose that there's no reason for me to go kill that there's no reason for me to go kill that there's no reason for me to go kill or snare rabbits. So, I didn't do that. or snare rabbits. So, I didn't do that. or snare rabbits. So, I didn't do that. >> Also, aka toilet paper, right? >> Also, aka toilet paper, right? >> Also, aka toilet paper, right? >> Yeah. They >> Yeah. They >> Yeah. They >> What did you use for toilet paper? >> What did you use for toilet paper? >> What did you use for toilet paper? >> The rabbit feet, I hate to say, but it >> The rabbit feet, I hate to say, but it >> The rabbit feet, I hate to say, but it was quite luxurious. was quite luxurious. was quite luxurious. >> Okay, continue. >> Okay, continue. >> Okay, continue. >> Your imaginations can carry the rest of >> Your imaginations can carry the rest of >> Your imaginations can carry the rest of it. And then this Wolverine came and I it. And then this Wolverine came and I it. And then this Wolverine came and I had to only play defense. And it was a had to only play defense. And it was a had to only play defense. And it was a very tangible shift that I went from very tangible shift that I went from very tangible shift that I went from being able to like be in control of my being able to like be in control of my being able to like be in control of my own destiny to all of a sudden being on own destiny to all of a sudden being on own destiny to all of a sudden being on this what felt like a downhill this what felt like a downhill this what felt like a downhill trajectory. It's like I've collected trajectory. It's like I've collected trajectory. It's like I've collected everything I can collect and now I just everything I can collect and now I just everything I can collect and now I just see what happens and try to defend see what happens and try to defend see what happens and try to defend against the Wolverine and all I can do against the Wolverine and all I can do against the Wolverine and all I can do is wait for the ice to, you know, it is wait for the ice to, you know, it is wait for the ice to, you know, it felt like a very different frame of mind felt like a very different frame of mind felt like a very different frame of mind and that was more difficult period to and that was more difficult period to and that was more difficult period to get through. I mean, all these animals get through. I mean, all these animals get through. I mean, all these animals have optimized to steal food, right? I have optimized to steal food, right? I have optimized to steal food, right? I mean, mean, mean, >> that's all they do. >> that's all they do. >> that's all they do. >> And so, especially something like a >> And so, especially something like a >> And so, especially something like a wolverine, it's like you can take the wolverine, it's like you can take the wolverine, it's like you can take the bark off of the bark off of the bark off of the >> pillars holding up your elevated >> pillars holding up your elevated >> pillars holding up your elevated platform. But platform. But platform. But >> yeah, I made a cool platform. The Aventi >> yeah, I made a cool platform. The Aventi >> yeah, I made a cool platform. The Aventi had showed me, you know, had built a had showed me, you know, had built a had showed me, you know, had built a bunch of them with the natives bunch of them with the natives bunch of them with the natives >> participant later season almost killed >> participant later season almost killed >> participant later season almost killed himself trying to copy that. himself trying to copy that. himself trying to copy that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a certain >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a certain >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a certain technique to how to build them, which technique to how to build them, which technique to how to build them, which was useful to know to do it safely. But was useful to know to do it safely. But was useful to know to do it safely. But you're also calculating like not using you're also calculating like not using you're also calculating like not using unnecessary calories. And so I should unnecessary calories. And so I should unnecessary calories. And so I should have finished it. There's actually a you have finished it. There's actually a you have finished it. There's actually a you box in that raised platform and then you box in that raised platform and then you box in that raised platform and then you build a box on top and it's pretty build a box on top and it's pretty build a box on top and it's pretty everything proof. But of course again everything proof. But of course again everything proof. But of course again that Wolverine kept surprising me. So I that Wolverine kept surprising me. So I that Wolverine kept surprising me. So I had built the platform, done a few had built the platform, done a few had built the platform, done a few tricks to try to keep it from getting up tricks to try to keep it from getting up tricks to try to keep it from getting up there and then it got up there. But by there and then it got up there. But by there and then it got up there. But by then it was like shoot I should have then it was like shoot I should have then it was like shoot I should have built the thing but you know anyway. So, built the thing but you know anyway. So, built the thing but you know anyway. So, yep. Learning on the fly and trying to yep. Learning on the fly and trying to yep. Learning on the fly and trying to react accordingly. But react accordingly. But react accordingly. But >> most people in modern life, >> most people in modern life, >> most people in modern life, >> they have their I'm making this up, >> they have their I'm making this up, >> they have their I'm making this up, right? Random meal, but they'll like right? Random meal, but they'll like right? Random meal, but they'll like salmon or chicken breast, some veggies, salmon or chicken breast, some veggies, salmon or chicken breast, some veggies, maybe some pasta or sweet potato, who maybe some pasta or sweet potato, who maybe some pasta or sweet potato, who knows? knows? knows? >> But you mentioned the fat being stolen. >> But you mentioned the fat being stolen. >> But you mentioned the fat being stolen. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> People can look up something called >> People can look up something called >> People can look up something called rabbit starvation, too. But how rabbit starvation, too. But how rabbit starvation, too. But how important is fat? Yeah, you learn that important is fat? Yeah, you learn that important is fat? Yeah, you learn that really fast also. And that was the first really fast also. And that was the first really fast also. And that was the first time just solely living off the land time just solely living off the land time just solely living off the land that I had where I didn't have any that I had where I didn't have any that I had where I didn't have any noodle backup or any anything like that. noodle backup or any anything like that. noodle backup or any anything like that. And so for an extended period of time, I And so for an extended period of time, I And so for an extended period of time, I was curious how long you could live off was curious how long you could live off was curious how long you could live off a rabbit. I was curious how, you know, a rabbit. I was curious how, you know, a rabbit. I was curious how, you know, all this kind of stuff. And what I all this kind of stuff. And what I all this kind of stuff. And what I learned quite quickly was your body learned quite quickly was your body learned quite quickly was your body needs fat right away. And every day needs fat right away. And every day needs fat right away. And every day you're burning your fat reserves or fat you're burning your fat reserves or fat you're burning your fat reserves or fat you're bringing in the protein. It's you're bringing in the protein. It's you're bringing in the protein. It's actually more attainable out there. actually more attainable out there. actually more attainable out there. There's a lot of little animals and a There's a lot of little animals and a There's a lot of little animals and a lot of things. Even mushrooms have lot of things. Even mushrooms have lot of things. Even mushrooms have protein in them. But the fat is the protein in them. But the fat is the protein in them. But the fat is the bottleneck of survival for sure. And so bottleneck of survival for sure. And so bottleneck of survival for sure. And so that's why we love it, I guess. But it that's why we love it, I guess. But it that's why we love it, I guess. But it was it just proved and it was so was it just proved and it was so was it just proved and it was so interesting to observe the animals is interesting to observe the animals is interesting to observe the animals is how honed everybody was in on just the how honed everybody was in on just the how honed everybody was in on just the fat. the wolverine, the crows, the jays, fat. the wolverine, the crows, the jays, fat. the wolverine, the crows, the jays, everything would just try to get the everything would just try to get the everything would just try to get the fattiest part of your fish or your fattiest part of your fish or your fattiest part of your fish or your eyeballs, eyeballs, brain, skin, eyeballs, eyeballs, brain, skin, eyeballs, eyeballs, brain, skin, >> and they would leave the chunks of meat >> and they would leave the chunks of meat >> and they would leave the chunks of meat like a big fish. They'd strip the skin like a big fish. They'd strip the skin like a big fish. They'd strip the skin off, eat kind of the fatty belly area, off, eat kind of the fatty belly area, off, eat kind of the fatty belly area, the eyes do the same thing, too, right? the eyes do the same thing, too, right? the eyes do the same thing, too, right? Like when they're grabbing salmon. Like when they're grabbing salmon. Like when they're grabbing salmon. >> So, you can learn >> So, you can learn >> So, you can learn >> if they're plentiful enough, they eat >> if they're plentiful enough, they eat >> if they're plentiful enough, they eat the brain and just leave all of the the brain and just leave all of the the brain and just leave all of the meat. meat. meat. >> Yep. It's pretty interesting. So, that's >> Yep. It's pretty interesting. So, that's >> Yep. It's pretty interesting. So, that's the fuel of the forest out there. the fuel of the forest out there. the fuel of the forest out there. All right, so let's talk about some new All right, so let's talk about some new All right, so let's talk about some new projects. Well, first of all, projects. Well, first of all, projects. Well, first of all, >> I mean, not really first of all, but >> I mean, not really first of all, but >> I mean, not really first of all, but lest I forget, lest I forget, lest I forget, >> where can people get one of these >> where can people get one of these >> where can people get one of these incredible axes? I have one. People do incredible axes? I have one. People do incredible axes? I have one. People do not, you know, just run around your not, you know, just run around your not, you know, just run around your living room swinging this like a toy. living room swinging this like a toy. living room swinging this like a toy. It's not a toy, but It's not a toy, but It's not a toy, but >> it's a tool, >> it's a tool, >> it's a tool, >> but it's a it's a uniquely designed I >> but it's a it's a uniquely designed I >> but it's a it's a uniquely designed I don't want to say allin-one, but don't want to say allin-one, but don't want to say allin-one, but multi-purpose tool. multi-purpose tool. multi-purpose tool. >> Yeah. I think if people take the time to >> Yeah. I think if people take the time to >> Yeah. I think if people take the time to learn it and learn its nuances, you'll learn it and learn its nuances, you'll learn it and learn its nuances, you'll love it. But there's a learning curve to love it. But there's a learning curve to love it. But there's a learning curve to it because it is like a kind of a finely it because it is like a kind of a finely it because it is like a kind of a finely >> tuned machine. But Jordan Jonas.com, I >> tuned machine. But Jordan Jonas.com, I >> tuned machine. But Jordan Jonas.com, I have a website jordanjonas and have a website jordanjonas and have a website jordanjonas and jordjonas.com/ax, jordjonas.com/ax, jordjonas.com/ax, you can get that. There's two versions. you can get that. There's two versions. you can get that. There's two versions. This is a little bit smaller version. This is a little bit smaller version. This is a little bit smaller version. It's easier to carry when you're It's easier to carry when you're It's easier to carry when you're backpacking and stuff. And then I have backpacking and stuff. And then I have backpacking and stuff. And then I have like the fuller bigger version that if like the fuller bigger version that if like the fuller bigger version that if you're on the farm or car camping, you're on the farm or car camping, you're on the farm or car camping, things like that, has a little more things like that, has a little more things like that, has a little more heft. And then if people and you and I heft. And then if people and you and I heft. And then if people and you and I have to book some time before this goes have to book some time before this goes have to book some time before this goes live so that I don't screw myself here, live so that I don't screw myself here, live so that I don't screw myself here, but if people want to experience what but if people want to experience what but if people want to experience what it's like to go into the wilderness with it's like to go into the wilderness with it's like to go into the wilderness with you, which I highly recommend if you can you, which I highly recommend if you can you, which I highly recommend if you can do it, guys, do it, guys, do it, guys, you will learn a ton. You will not be you will learn a ton. You will not be you will learn a ton. You will not be able to absorb everything. Like there's able to absorb everything. Like there's able to absorb everything. Like there's there's going to be a lot that you pick there's going to be a lot that you pick there's going to be a lot that you pick up up up >> and are able to practice, which was so >> and are able to practice, which was so >> and are able to practice, which was so fun. like not just some of the finer fun. like not just some of the finer fun. like not just some of the finer details of fundamental survival skills, details of fundamental survival skills, details of fundamental survival skills, but learning how to use a relatively but learning how to use a relatively but learning how to use a relatively simple tool like a tankara rod. simple tool like a tankara rod. simple tool like a tankara rod. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Right. But just learning how to utilize >> Right. But just learning how to utilize >> Right. But just learning how to utilize a simple tool. Well, a simple tool. Well, a simple tool. Well, >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Same with the axe. >> Same with the axe. >> Same with the axe. >> Y. >> Y. >> Y. >> So, how can people learn more about >> So, how can people learn more about >> So, how can people learn more about >> Same deal. It's like, you know, the >> Same deal. It's like, you know, the >> Same deal. It's like, you know, the Instagram, the follow along, YouTube, Instagram, the follow along, YouTube, Instagram, the follow along, YouTube, Jordan pushing in. Jordan pushing in. Jordan pushing in. jordanjonas.com is where I have access jordanjonas.com is where I have access jordanjonas.com is where I have access to sign up for courses. There's hunts to sign up for courses. There's hunts to sign up for courses. There's hunts available there and stuff that people available there and stuff that people available there and stuff that people can guide you on. They do book pretty can guide you on. They do book pretty can guide you on. They do book pretty quick. Like this season's booked, but quick. Like this season's booked, but quick. Like this season's booked, but I'm all about taking people out on, you I'm all about taking people out on, you I'm all about taking people out on, you know, private trips and stuff. You just know, private trips and stuff. You just know, private trips and stuff. You just have to kind of get in early or wait for have to kind of get in early or wait for have to kind of get in early or wait for my schedule to come out for next year my schedule to come out for next year my schedule to come out for next year and try to squeeze in. But I love them, and try to squeeze in. But I love them, and try to squeeze in. But I love them, man. It's been such a cool way to share man. It's been such a cool way to share man. It's been such a cool way to share what I love. I talked about it earlier what I love. I talked about it earlier what I love. I talked about it earlier with the purpose. It's kind of I I have with the purpose. It's kind of I I have with the purpose. It's kind of I I have this stage of my life. The purpose is this stage of my life. The purpose is this stage of my life. The purpose is defined and trying to share the lessons defined and trying to share the lessons defined and trying to share the lessons that I've gained with others and I that I've gained with others and I that I've gained with others and I really enjoy it, find it meaningful and really enjoy it, find it meaningful and really enjoy it, find it meaningful and I know people get a lot out of it. So I I know people get a lot out of it. So I I know people get a lot out of it. So I would love to see some folks out there. would love to see some folks out there. would love to see some folks out there. >> So speaking of purpose >> So speaking of purpose >> So speaking of purpose >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> the book. >> the book. >> the book. >> No. Yeah. >> No. Yeah. >> No. Yeah. >> What are you up to? Why write a book? My >> What are you up to? Why write a book? My >> What are you up to? Why write a book? My wife and I talk about it fairly often wife and I talk about it fairly often wife and I talk about it fairly often that it's like we have a life that is that it's like we have a life that is that it's like we have a life that is very good, very full and on a lot of very good, very full and on a lot of very good, very full and on a lot of levels I would say like emotionally, levels I would say like emotionally, levels I would say like emotionally, spiritually on the family. It's a big spiritually on the family. It's a big spiritually on the family. It's a big blessing. When I was on alone too, it blessing. When I was on alone too, it blessing. When I was on alone too, it kind of struck me. I was like, well, kind of struck me. I was like, well, kind of struck me. I was like, well, how's this situation that's so difficult how's this situation that's so difficult how's this situation that's so difficult or I mean even life-changing for people? or I mean even life-changing for people? or I mean even life-changing for people? It just kind of felt like another trip It just kind of felt like another trip It just kind of felt like another trip to Russia or like it felt very normal to Russia or like it felt very normal to Russia or like it felt very normal for me. I was like, I wonder what for me. I was like, I wonder what for me. I was like, I wonder what prepared me in life to make this kind of prepared me in life to make this kind of prepared me in life to make this kind of unusual situation seem normal unusual situation seem normal unusual situation seem normal >> and just to provide the counter to that. >> and just to provide the counter to that. >> and just to provide the counter to that. I mean, people break on this show, I mean, people break on this show, I mean, people break on this show, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> in a lot of different ways. >> in a lot of different ways. >> in a lot of different ways. >> Sometimes a very dramatic fashion. >> Sometimes a very dramatic fashion. >> Sometimes a very dramatic fashion. >> Mhm. And so it made me a little bit >> Mhm. And so it made me a little bit >> Mhm. And so it made me a little bit introspective about what had prepared me introspective about what had prepared me introspective about what had prepared me for it well. And in doing in thinking for it well. And in doing in thinking for it well. And in doing in thinking about those things, I was like, man, about those things, I was like, man, about those things, I was like, man, there really are some patterns of my there really are some patterns of my there really are some patterns of my being that have being that have being that have created, you know, and Tim, if you guys created, you know, and Tim, if you guys created, you know, and Tim, if you guys listen, know he's really good at naming listen, know he's really good at naming listen, know he's really good at naming things and putting place on, but have things and putting place on, but have things and putting place on, but have created like a reservoir of resilience created like a reservoir of resilience created like a reservoir of resilience that that I can tap into and that is that that I can tap into and that is that that I can tap into and that is well exercised and and I just thought it well exercised and and I just thought it well exercised and and I just thought it would be really interesting to share would be really interesting to share would be really interesting to share with people through the story of my life with people through the story of my life with people through the story of my life and all these kind of fun stories, but and all these kind of fun stories, but and all these kind of fun stories, but also some of the keys to living a life also some of the keys to living a life also some of the keys to living a life well really, but by building resilience well really, but by building resilience well really, but by building resilience that'll help that. And what is that'll help that. And what is that'll help that. And what is interesting is you want to build that interesting is you want to build that interesting is you want to build that resilience before you find yourself in resilience before you find yourself in resilience before you find yourself in the situation cuz once you find yourself the situation cuz once you find yourself the situation cuz once you find yourself in the situation, it's often a little in the situation, it's often a little in the situation, it's often a little late. And so the key is to come through late. And so the key is to come through late. And so the key is to come through hard times and trials. Anybody can get hard times and trials. Anybody can get hard times and trials. Anybody can get through it, but you want to get through through it, but you want to get through through it, but you want to get through it and be positive and be putting light it and be positive and be putting light it and be positive and be putting light into the world. So, it's me trying to into the world. So, it's me trying to into the world. So, it's me trying to help help help >> like your grandparents. >> like your grandparents. >> like your grandparents. >> Like my grandparents, like my dad. It's >> Like my grandparents, like my dad. It's >> Like my grandparents, like my dad. It's me trying to help people learn the me trying to help people learn the me trying to help people learn the lessons that I've learned that might lessons that I've learned that might lessons that I've learned that might help make their reservoir of resilience, help make their reservoir of resilience, help make their reservoir of resilience, you know, fill up so that they're able you know, fill up so that they're able you know, fill up so that they're able to confront things as they come. It's a to confront things as they come. It's a to confront things as they come. It's a fun project. I got Harper Collins and I fun project. I got Harper Collins and I fun project. I got Harper Collins and I partnered up on it and it'll be what I partnered up on it and it'll be what I partnered up on it and it'll be what I work on this year. So, I'm It's been fun work on this year. So, I'm It's been fun work on this year. So, I'm It's been fun starting. starting. starting. >> What's the tenative pub date plan? Any >> What's the tenative pub date plan? Any >> What's the tenative pub date plan? Any idea? the early start of 2027. So yeah, idea? the early start of 2027. So yeah, idea? the early start of 2027. So yeah, >> it's exciting. >> it's exciting. >> it's exciting. >> Yeah, it is exciting. First book. So >> Yeah, it is exciting. First book. So >> Yeah, it is exciting. First book. So it's a fun it's a fun it's a fun >> new project. >> new project. >> new project. >> Yeah, I'm going to >> Yeah, I'm going to >> Yeah, I'm going to >> for people who >> for people who >> for people who >> I really encourage people to watch >> I really encourage people to watch >> I really encourage people to watch seasons six and seven. There's a Reddit seasons six and seven. There's a Reddit seasons six and seven. There's a Reddit thread titled quote, "Can we agree that thread titled quote, "Can we agree that thread titled quote, "Can we agree that Jordan from season 6 is the best Jordan from season 6 is the best Jordan from season 6 is the best contestant to ever play the game?" contestant to ever play the game?" contestant to ever play the game?" >> And it just goes on and on and on and >> And it just goes on and on and on and >> And it just goes on and on and on and on. on. on. >> You'll find some disagreement >> You'll find some disagreement >> You'll find some disagreement >> there. Yes. I mean, it's Red it's >> there. Yes. I mean, it's Red it's >> there. Yes. I mean, it's Red it's Reddit, so of course there's plenty of Reddit, so of course there's plenty of Reddit, so of course there's plenty of disagreements. Oh, yeah. disagreements. Oh, yeah. disagreements. Oh, yeah. >> But but you mentioned hardship and >> But but you mentioned hardship and >> But but you mentioned hardship and earlier this morning we were chatting earlier this morning we were chatting earlier this morning we were chatting because I was because I was because I was I was in Tennessee and was with I was in Tennessee and was with I was in Tennessee and was with very very skilled podcaster and kind very very skilled podcaster and kind very very skilled podcaster and kind human Sean Ryan. human Sean Ryan. human Sean Ryan. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> And found this folded up piece of paper >> And found this folded up piece of paper >> And found this folded up piece of paper in the chair I was sitting in and it in the chair I was sitting in and it in the chair I was sitting in and it ended up being ended up being ended up being >> a copy of the serenity prayer. Mhm. >> a copy of the serenity prayer. Mhm. >> a copy of the serenity prayer. Mhm. >> And I have long been a fan of the >> And I have long been a fan of the >> And I have long been a fan of the serenity prayer in part because it has serenity prayer in part because it has serenity prayer in part because it has echoes of and reinforces echoes of and reinforces echoes of and reinforces a lot of my reading in stoicism. a lot of my reading in stoicism. a lot of my reading in stoicism. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> What I didn't realize is that what I >> What I didn't realize is that what I >> What I didn't realize is that what I thought was the serenity prayer is thought was the serenity prayer is thought was the serenity prayer is actually just a small piece of it. actually just a small piece of it. actually just a small piece of it. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Are you able to pull it up in your phone >> Are you able to pull it up in your phone >> Are you able to pull it up in your phone by chance? by chance? by chance? >> Yeah. It's a great prayer. So, I'll read >> Yeah. It's a great prayer. So, I'll read >> Yeah. It's a great prayer. So, I'll read the full thing here. It says, "God, the full thing here. It says, "God, the full thing here. It says, "God, grant me the serenity to accept the grant me the serenity to accept the grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to things I cannot change, the courage to things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom change the things I can, and the wisdom change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Then it goes to know the difference." Then it goes to know the difference." Then it goes on, "Living one day at a time, enjoying on, "Living one day at a time, enjoying on, "Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting one moment at a time, accepting one moment at a time, accepting hardships as the pathway to peace, hardships as the pathway to peace, hardships as the pathway to peace, taking as he did, this sinful world as taking as he did, this sinful world as taking as he did, this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it, trusting it is, not as I would have it, trusting it is, not as I would have it, trusting that he will make all things right if I that he will make all things right if I that he will make all things right if I surrender to his will, so that I may be surrender to his will, so that I may be surrender to his will, so that I may be reasonably happy in this life and reasonably happy in this life and reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with him in the next." supremely happy with him in the next." supremely happy with him in the next." has a lot of interesting concepts there. has a lot of interesting concepts there. has a lot of interesting concepts there. Most people are familiar with a start. Most people are familiar with a start. Most people are familiar with a start. The next one is like living one day at a The next one is like living one day at a The next one is like living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time. time, enjoying one moment at a time. time, enjoying one moment at a time. There was that lesson I got slapped with There was that lesson I got slapped with There was that lesson I got slapped with on alone whereas I'm worried about the on alone whereas I'm worried about the on alone whereas I'm worried about the future and worried that future and worried that future and worried that >> ended up not coming and then accepting >> ended up not coming and then accepting >> ended up not coming and then accepting hardship as the pathway to peace as we hardship as the pathway to peace as we hardship as the pathway to peace as we were discussing this morning. Quite a were discussing this morning. Quite a were discussing this morning. Quite a profound bit of wisdom in that. a lot in profound bit of wisdom in that. a lot in profound bit of wisdom in that. a lot in there, right? It's just I mean some of there, right? It's just I mean some of there, right? It's just I mean some of my favorite maybe concepts, my favorite maybe concepts, my favorite maybe concepts, maxims from Buddhists, maxims from Buddhists, maxims from Buddhists, philosophy from stoicism. I mean it is philosophy from stoicism. I mean it is philosophy from stoicism. I mean it is so neatly wrapped so neatly wrapped so neatly wrapped >> into the serenity stoicism. >> into the serenity stoicism. >> into the serenity stoicism. >> It's so beautifully put and it just kind >> It's so beautifully put and it just kind >> It's so beautifully put and it just kind of blew my mind and I had such a partial of blew my mind and I had such a partial of blew my mind and I had such a partial understanding of it. understanding of it. understanding of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. because I only knew I think >> Yeah. Yeah. because I only knew I think >> Yeah. Yeah. because I only knew I think like most people the very beginning like most people the very beginning like most people the very beginning >> and not the rest. >> and not the rest. >> and not the rest. >> Jordan, people can find you at >> Jordan, people can find you at >> Jordan, people can find you at jordanjonas.com jordanjonas.com jordanjonas.com jo. jo. jo. They can find you on Instagram and They can find you on Instagram and They can find you on Instagram and YouTube hobo YouTube hobo YouTube hobo makes me laugh every time I say it. Is makes me laugh every time I say it. Is makes me laugh every time I say it. Is there anything else you'd like to say? there anything else you'd like to say? there anything else you'd like to say? Anything you'd like to add? Ask of my Anything you'd like to add? Ask of my Anything you'd like to add? Ask of my audience. audience. audience. >> We've all been noticing lately that the >> We've all been noticing lately that the >> We've all been noticing lately that the political division is ramping up more political division is ramping up more political division is ramping up more and more. I've been thinking a lot about and more. I've been thinking a lot about and more. I've been thinking a lot about the idea that so many people I know and the idea that so many people I know and the idea that so many people I know and love over the years have vastly love over the years have vastly love over the years have vastly divergent political opinions. But when divergent political opinions. But when divergent political opinions. But when you filter each other through politics, you filter each other through politics, you filter each other through politics, you're really likely to see people as you're really likely to see people as you're really likely to see people as avatars of an ideology rather than as avatars of an ideology rather than as avatars of an ideology rather than as fellow humans. And I see that right now fellow humans. And I see that right now fellow humans. And I see that right now seems like with immigration's the hot seems like with immigration's the hot seems like with immigration's the hot topic at the moment. Of course, I topic at the moment. Of course, I topic at the moment. Of course, I believe we should keep track of believe we should keep track of believe we should keep track of immigration and who comes in and people immigration and who comes in and people immigration and who comes in and people who take advantage of the system who take advantage of the system who take advantage of the system shouldn't because there's a social shouldn't because there's a social shouldn't because there's a social contract and a trust that has to be contract and a trust that has to be contract and a trust that has to be shared and maintained in a society. But shared and maintained in a society. But shared and maintained in a society. But at the same time, I have a personal at the same time, I have a personal at the same time, I have a personal belief based on my faith that I should belief based on my faith that I should belief based on my faith that I should help those in need when I have the help those in need when I have the help those in need when I have the ability. So, in my personal life, I've ability. So, in my personal life, I've ability. So, in my personal life, I've chosen to take on, for example, in my chosen to take on, for example, in my chosen to take on, for example, in my case, a couple who were Russian asylum case, a couple who were Russian asylum case, a couple who were Russian asylum seekers didn't want to go to the front seekers didn't want to go to the front seekers didn't want to go to the front in Ukraine. So, they fled. But I don't in Ukraine. So, they fled. But I don't in Ukraine. So, they fled. But I don't expect others to be forced via the expect others to be forced via the expect others to be forced via the government and taxation to live out my government and taxation to live out my government and taxation to live out my morality. And I don't judge or think ill morality. And I don't judge or think ill morality. And I don't judge or think ill of those who don't because I know there of those who don't because I know there of those who don't because I know there is a genuine sacrifice there. So, I is a genuine sacrifice there. So, I is a genuine sacrifice there. So, I don't use politics to vicariously don't use politics to vicariously don't use politics to vicariously fulfill my moral obligations that I feel fulfill my moral obligations that I feel fulfill my moral obligations that I feel good about myself without having to make good about myself without having to make good about myself without having to make the personal sacrifices that a the personal sacrifices that a the personal sacrifices that a personally lived out ethic in the world personally lived out ethic in the world personally lived out ethic in the world requires. And if I have the government requires. And if I have the government requires. And if I have the government fulfill my morality, it costs me fulfill my morality, it costs me fulfill my morality, it costs me nothing. And I can even find myself in a nothing. And I can even find myself in a nothing. And I can even find myself in a situation where I'm judging people who situation where I'm judging people who situation where I'm judging people who might actually practically be doing more might actually practically be doing more might actually practically be doing more to bear the actual burden of what I to bear the actual burden of what I to bear the actual burden of what I think is right in the world. So I think think is right in the world. So I think think is right in the world. So I think if more people approach their morality if more people approach their morality if more people approach their morality at a personal level actively but also at a personal level actively but also at a personal level actively but also taking responsibly for it in their taking responsibly for it in their taking responsibly for it in their lives, the reality has a way of lives, the reality has a way of lives, the reality has a way of tempering the extremes and it cuts in tempering the extremes and it cuts in tempering the extremes and it cuts in every direction. If someone on the right every direction. If someone on the right every direction. If someone on the right has a really strong opinion about has a really strong opinion about has a really strong opinion about abortion, it's like the foster children abortion, it's like the foster children abortion, it's like the foster children adopt support single moms. If someone on adopt support single moms. If someone on adopt support single moms. If someone on the left has a really strong opinion the left has a really strong opinion the left has a really strong opinion about wanting an open border, well, take about wanting an open border, well, take about wanting an open border, well, take in an immigrant family, support them in an immigrant family, support them in an immigrant family, support them using your own means and social using your own means and social using your own means and social connections. Get to know the complexity connections. Get to know the complexity connections. Get to know the complexity that comes when you do all that and that comes when you do all that and that comes when you do all that and you'll find you'll actually understand you'll find you'll actually understand you'll find you'll actually understand people that don't because it is a people that don't because it is a people that don't because it is a sacrifice and you'll be less judgmental sacrifice and you'll be less judgmental sacrifice and you'll be less judgmental and probably less self-righteous. So, and probably less self-righteous. So, and probably less self-righteous. So, it's something I've been thinking about it's something I've been thinking about it's something I've been thinking about a little bit lately. Working that out is a little bit lately. Working that out is a little bit lately. Working that out is my favorite part of my spiritual path of my favorite part of my spiritual path of my favorite part of my spiritual path of Christianity. It's like I don't have a Christianity. It's like I don't have a Christianity. It's like I don't have a law. Like I don't know what I'm supposed law. Like I don't know what I'm supposed law. Like I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Usually I'm supposed to filter to do. Usually I'm supposed to filter to do. Usually I'm supposed to filter like the real world through this ideal like the real world through this ideal like the real world through this ideal of love your neighbor as yourself. Love of love your neighbor as yourself. Love of love your neighbor as yourself. Love the Lord your God. And in doing so, I'm the Lord your God. And in doing so, I'm the Lord your God. And in doing so, I'm constantly like what does it mean to constantly like what does it mean to constantly like what does it mean to love your enemy? Like it's unrealistic. love your enemy? Like it's unrealistic. love your enemy? Like it's unrealistic. Like what's it mean to give to everybody Like what's it mean to give to everybody Like what's it mean to give to everybody you've asked? That's not realistic. But you've asked? That's not realistic. But you've asked? That's not realistic. But it makes me wrestle with this thing and it makes me wrestle with this thing and it makes me wrestle with this thing and in that it all comes to life. Whereas I in that it all comes to life. Whereas I in that it all comes to life. Whereas I could just, you know, I could have could just, you know, I could have could just, you know, I could have chosen to throw it out at some point and chosen to throw it out at some point and chosen to throw it out at some point and throw all that wrestling out with it, throw all that wrestling out with it, throw all that wrestling out with it, but I would have lost a lot of what but I would have lost a lot of what but I would have lost a lot of what provides meaning and value in my life provides meaning and value in my life provides meaning and value in my life also. So, I don't know, working that out also. So, I don't know, working that out also. So, I don't know, working that out in your life is super valuable. in your life is super valuable. in your life is super valuable. >> It strikes me. I mean, this this framing >> It strikes me. I mean, this this framing >> It strikes me. I mean, this this framing of wrestling with God. of wrestling with God. of wrestling with God. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> And look, I know I'm getting over my >> And look, I know I'm getting over my >> And look, I know I'm getting over my skis here a bit, but it's the people who skis here a bit, but it's the people who skis here a bit, but it's the people who wrestle with X wrestle with X wrestle with X >> Mhm. who >> Mhm. who >> Mhm. who foster a type of introspection that I foster a type of introspection that I foster a type of introspection that I think often leads to decisions that are think often leads to decisions that are think often leads to decisions that are better aligned with their truest of true better aligned with their truest of true better aligned with their truest of true values. values. values. >> Yeah. It gets a little dangerous when >> Yeah. It gets a little dangerous when >> Yeah. It gets a little dangerous when you know for sure. you know for sure. you know for sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I embrace that struggle I guess. >> And so I embrace that struggle I guess. >> And so I embrace that struggle I guess. >> Yeah. I mean I don't know attribution >> Yeah. I mean I don't know attribution >> Yeah. I mean I don't know attribution but it's like uh admire the seeker of but it's like uh admire the seeker of but it's like uh admire the seeker of the truth. Beware the person who has the truth. Beware the person who has the truth. Beware the person who has found the truth. found the truth. found the truth. >> Yeah. Right. I mean there are times when >> Yeah. Right. I mean there are times when >> Yeah. Right. I mean there are times when it's like to have solid values or it's like to have solid values or it's like to have solid values or principles that you choose to live your principles that you choose to live your principles that you choose to live your life by. But at the same time to wrestle life by. But at the same time to wrestle life by. But at the same time to wrestle right right right >> and to ask questions, you know, under >> and to ask questions, you know, under >> and to ask questions, you know, under what circumstances would this not be what circumstances would this not be what circumstances would this not be right and to cross-examine. It's asking right and to cross-examine. It's asking right and to cross-examine. It's asking a lot of people. I recognize a lot of people. I recognize a lot of people. I recognize >> it's asking a lot of anyone, >> it's asking a lot of anyone, >> it's asking a lot of anyone, >> right? Because it's easy to just have a >> right? Because it's easy to just have a >> right? Because it's easy to just have a formula to follow. formula to follow. formula to follow. >> Yeah. like the the highest path is to >> Yeah. like the the highest path is to >> Yeah. like the the highest path is to like work it out. like work it out. like work it out. >> Well, I admire how you have tried to >> Well, I admire how you have tried to >> Well, I admire how you have tried to work it out. I think it's a very work it out. I think it's a very work it out. I think it's a very thoughtful approach. It's not an easy thoughtful approach. It's not an easy thoughtful approach. It's not an easy approach. And I just love what you do in approach. And I just love what you do in approach. And I just love what you do in the world, man. I feel like you're the world, man. I feel like you're the world, man. I feel like you're >> reintroducing people to a lot of >> reintroducing people to a lot of >> reintroducing people to a lot of core core core evolved sensitivities that make humans evolved sensitivities that make humans evolved sensitivities that make humans human. And when you do that, the human. And when you do that, the human. And when you do that, the abstractions and the concepts that abstractions and the concepts that abstractions and the concepts that people are willing to go to blows over people are willing to go to blows over people are willing to go to blows over on social media just fall away as what on social media just fall away as what on social media just fall away as what they are, which is they are, which is they are, which is >> typically some type of artificial line >> typically some type of artificial line >> typically some type of artificial line in the sand that people have chosen and in the sand that people have chosen and in the sand that people have chosen and been encouraged to take on as some type been encouraged to take on as some type been encouraged to take on as some type of team identity, of team identity, of team identity, >> tribal. that just falls away when you >> tribal. that just falls away when you >> tribal. that just falls away when you simplify things and put people in an simplify things and put people in an simplify things and put people in an environment where they can see that. environment where they can see that. environment where they can see that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. I think it's really beautiful and >> Right. I think it's really beautiful and >> Right. I think it's really beautiful and people don't have to live in Montana to people don't have to live in Montana to people don't have to live in Montana to do that. do that. do that. >> Right. There are ways to seek it out. >> Right. There are ways to seek it out. >> Right. There are ways to seek it out. So, I appreciate you taking time on the So, I appreciate you taking time on the So, I appreciate you taking time on the show, man. It's great to see show, man. It's great to see show, man. It's great to see >> Tim. It's been fun getting to know you >> Tim. It's been fun getting to know you >> Tim. It's been fun getting to know you and hanging out with you in the woods and hanging out with you in the woods and hanging out with you in the woods and here and really enjoyed it. It's an and here and really enjoyed it. It's an and here and really enjoyed it. It's an honor. honor. honor. >> I'm excited, man. And I can't wait to >> I'm excited, man. And I can't wait to >> I'm excited, man. And I can't wait to pack in my own axe now pack in my own axe now pack in my own axe now >> next time and and make absolutely sure I >> next time and and make absolutely sure I >> next time and and make absolutely sure I don't stick it into my foot. don't stick it into my foot. don't stick it into my foot. >> So to be continued. >> So to be continued. >> So to be continued. >> Thanks Jordan. >> Thanks Jordan. >> Thanks Jordan. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And for people listening, we'll link to >> And for people listening, we'll link to >> And for people listening, we'll link to all sorts of things in the show notes at all sorts of things in the show notes at all sorts of things in the show notes at tim.blog/mpodcast. tim.blog/mpodcast. tim.blog/mpodcast. Just search Jordan. And there may be one Just search Jordan. And there may be one Just search Jordan. And there may be one other Jordan. You can certainly search other Jordan. You can certainly search other Jordan. You can certainly search Jonas. There's not going to be another Jonas. There's not going to be another Jonas. There's not going to be another Jonas. Jonas. Jonas. >> He'll pop right up. Until next time, as >> He'll pop right up. Until next time, as >> He'll pop right up. Until next time, as always, just be a bit kinder than is always, just be a bit kinder than is always, just be a bit kinder than is necessary. To others, yes, but also to necessary. To others, yes, but also to necessary. To others, yes, but also to yourself. To quote Jack Kornfield, "If yourself. To quote Jack Kornfield, "If yourself. To quote Jack Kornfield, "If your compassion does not include your compassion does not include your compassion does not include yourself, then your compassion is yourself, then your compassion is yourself, then your compassion is incomplete." incomplete." incomplete." >> Indeed. >> Indeed. >> Indeed. >> Thanks for tuning in. Bye.