Cedric King Lost Both Legs. Then He Ran 33 Marathons.

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And over time, you learn what normal looks like for your body. So you notice when something changes and it's thoughtfully private. Every session starts with your fingerprint and of course your data is encrypted. Right now, Kohler Health is offering 10% off Dakota when you enter promo code RICHROLL10 at checkout. Go to Kohler.com slash Kohler Health to learn more. So as many of you may know, 18 months ago, I underwent spinal fusion, which was a pretty significant and intense operation that prompted my surgeon at the time to say, Rich, you can forget about a future with running. All I remember about that moment was thinking to myself, forget that. And it was then and there that I set this goal to complete the 2026 New York City Marathon. And to prove him wrong, I proceeded to get to work. For the first year, my movement was restricted to walking only, very slow walking. That's all I did was walk. In fact, I didn't run at all until about six months ago, starting with a very slow single mile. And from there, and out of caution to protect my still to this day healing spine, I restrained my quote unquote run training to only two five mile treadmill run walks per week, maximum, nothing more. So to say that I was unprepared to run 26.2 miles last Sunday is quite an understatement. But I towed the starting line anyway. And I didn't do it to announce some kind of comeback to running or to some return to form, but instead to simply celebrate turning 60 to enjoy this remarkable day in New York City, and to mark my ongoing recovery from this surgery. And beyond that, and most importantly, I wanted to signify a new and different relationship that I'm forming with this form of movement I love, this sport of running, one that is much more about service and connection than it is about ego gratifying performance goal. And in the interest of that aim, I decided to join my friend and go brewing founder Joe Chura to spend those 26.2 miles supporting someone else to help somebody else cross that finish line. That person was former US Army Master Sergeant and double amputee athlete Cedric King. Together, Joe and I guided Cedric successfully across the finish line to celebrate Cedric, who also happened to set a new personal course PR. But it's all about what happened along the way. And what happened forever changed me. It was a day better than anything I could have personally scripted the best day on the best day to be in the best city in the world marathon day in New York City. And so today I wanted to share that day with you and more all from the perspective of one of the most inspirational humans I've ever met. Please enjoy the infectious positive energy of Cedric King, your new best friend and possibly even your new life coach. Dude, we went on a journey yesterday. My friend, how are you feeling, buddy? Very sore. Very sore. Understandably. My back and this leg right here is stinging a little bit, stinging a little bit. I have no doubt. You dug really deep. There was a question mark near the end there where I thought, oh, you know, is he digging too deep? Has he dug too deep too soon? But you pulled it out, man. And we got you a PR. Yes, you did. This was a course PR. But every time I finish a race, I do want something else to work on. And because yesterday wasn't a perfect race, that gives me a little bit something to go into the tool shed and work on for the next few months. So what did you take away? I know that I cannot hit the gas on the last mile. I can't give. And I know that's something that we always say, you got to you got to empty the tank. And yeah, you do. But you do need to be smart about when you empty the tank. I empty the tank maybe about a mile and three quarters too early. And we're going downhill and we are moving. And it felt terrific until it didn't. And then you got to dig deep. Our friend Joe Chura, who also was part of our three-person team, founder of Go Brewing. Shout out Go Brewing. Shout out Joe. He's here. He told me many times over the course of the day, our job is to restrain him. Because Joe has paced you and supported you now through 10 marathons, I think, 10 or 11 marathons or something like that. Yes, he has. Cedric gets a little excited. We got to stick to the plan and we got to reel him in occasionally. But in that final stretch, I mean, we were in Central Park and you found a new gear. I did. And you started to throw down pretty hard. And I was like, oh, damn. We were doing like eight-minute miles or something. He's like going for it. I didn't realize like, oh, he's got he's had a whole other gear the whole time. And now is the moment he's going to throw down. But you spit it out a little too soon. And then you ran out of gas and then you really like met your maker. And that was when we were kind of making that turn onto 57th Street. And we have that long stretch before you go into the park and the wheels were coming off. Wheels were coming off. But I think that goes back to what we were talking about coming up First Avenue. We're in the middle of 22 to 23. And you look over at me and you say, hey, remember, man, this is what you asked for. And this was a place where I am losing energy, massive amounts of energy. And I don't have anything left. But at that point, you did remind me and you put purpose in the pain by saying, yo, remember this way you want to be it. Not tongue in cheek and not making light of the situation. But you just reminded me, hey, this is exactly where you figure out who you are. Not at the beginning of the race where you got tons of energy and not in the middle of the race where people are cheering at the end of the race where there are people that are cheering. But you got no energy. You got nothing left in the tank. And now you get to figure out who you really are. And that was where I was like, OK, yeah, this does suck. But now that pain has a purpose behind it. So what did you what did you learn about yourself when you met yourself in that state? That, yeah, it sucks and yeah, it's painful, but I don't have to quit. I don't like there are people that were running, they were our group that was consistently with us the last four or five miles, the same crew, the same guy, the old guy, I was like, yeah, yeah, well, I put a beat on that back. I was like, we're going to finish before him. That's probably why I hit the gas. So I was like, he's not finishing before me. He was somebody's great granddad. I was like, no, not you, but not happening. But I shout out to him wherever he is. I hope he's watching. But I found out that I don't have to quit just because I'm tired. And listen, listen, I don't want this to sound so cliche ish, but do when you are out of gas, you can make a compelling argument to tap out because there's nothing left in the tank and you can say, hey, man, you gave it the best you had and no one's going to say, boo. And nobody looked to me, especially everybody, but still they're going to clap if I tap out. I'm going to still get I'm going to still get lauded if I tap out. Doesn't matter what you do, no matter what I do walk into the room. Hey, but think about it. But think about it. At that point in time, I still got to say, bro, you didn't have to tap out just because you're tired, just because the tank was empty. You didn't have to tap out. You could have walked to that next stoplight and you could have recharged and gave it all you had. Again, we saw guys out there. I don't know if you saw this. There's two guys out there specifically. One, I pointed out to you, this guy did the whole marathon in a wheelchair backwards, one leg that he still had functional. And if that dude don't have to quit backwards, Bob backwards, backwards, Bill. Hey, I mean, first of all, he looks like he's eighty five years old. Absolutely. Maybe 90. But this guy was doing the whole marathon backwards without the sight of him knowing where he's going. He just has the guides to keep him from going into the walls. Backwards in a wheelchair. Backwards in a wheelchair, pushing himself with just one leg. Yes, yes. So it goes to my brain thinking, OK. He's tired and he doesn't. So it's possible that I could be tired and I don't quit. And hey, look, whoever is listening to this, maybe you're tired, but the truth is you don't have to tap out. You could take a break, wake up tomorrow morning and give it the best that you got. Is that going to help you win the race? Maybe, maybe not, but you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and say, golly, I'm proud of who I see in the other side of this mirror right here. You said it wasn't a perfect race. I don't know that any race is ever perfect, but what did you take away from that experience specifically that you're going to bring into your tool shed to be better next time? I had some nutrition fixes that I did. I did BCAAs. I did those disgusting ketones. Sorry, I'm losing sponsors. But those disgusting ketone shots did help. We missed two ketone shot alarms. I set them on my watch and I forgot them. I could have used those, but I was like, I'm feeling great. I don't need to do it. And sometimes that is one of your biggest mistakes where you say, hey, look, I'm feeling great. I could skip it, but it come back to hurt you later. So I can incorporate making sure that I'm good about it. But you can also empower your support crew. Like I actually didn't know what your feeding schedule was. If you had said at the beginning or took me aside and said, like, make sure every hour I do this, every half an hour I do this. And then I could have you could have offloaded that responsibility. But I didn't actually know. Yeah, we had four watches between me. All right. If you had two, we had we had four or five watches between the three of us and I was using both my alarms. Joe was using two sets of alarms on his. I'm sure I could have told you, hey, look, I need this ketone shot every 90 minutes. I need this, this, you know, this Advil hour out from finish, you know, it would help things be better. But that's a great thing. I never want to run a perfect race because I always want to be working on something better. You know, we're in Central Park and you asked me, you're like, what's your GPS, GPS watch say? Like how? Because that's a little bit of a, you know, a bit of a mind game. You know, mine was almost had said we had run more almost a mile more than the course. So you're thinking you're done. You look at your watch and you're like, oh, man, that's one of the biggest weights that I carried the whole day yesterday because the GPS in my in my Bluetooth, I was constantly hearing we're at the mile when I could see the mile is actually way down the street. So my GPS saying we're at mile 17 and in real life, mile 17 is nowhere in sight. And that was so mentally. Debilitating, man, I'm feeling like I'm getting the the rush that we're there, but I'm not getting I'm not seeing the satisfaction of being there and that every single mile I had to deal with now, we're not there yet. And I had to find ways to say, OK, this is just a segmentary goal that we're getting to. This is not the actual goal. We'll be there in seven tenths of a mile. But constantly having to deal with that, that was tough. And I, man. That was one of the things why I looked over to you, I said, hey, man, what's your GPS say? I said, OK, he's dealing with it, too. Yeah. But when you know that you're not in it alone, it kind of gave me a little bit of strength to know that I didn't want to ask Joe. I know Joe's marathon. His GPS is probably dead on, but I just wanted to know I wouldn't end up by myself. What would it have done to your mindset to know that, Joe, while we're, you know, kind of going through this whole experience, he's on his phone redesigning the Achilles website. That was the other bane of my existence. I was literally like using Claude code and he's like reworking the website for Achilles International, which is the organization that, you know, kind of put us into is it oversees the disabled athlete kind of endurance. One hundred percent. Great organization. Achilles International. They are the reason for probably my second turnaround in life for you. You had a turnaround in your life and it meant so much to your well-being. It meant so much to your self-identity, to who you could really become with all your accolades that you had in the beginning. This moment in your life happened. Now you find a new rich. Well Achilles was my Moment, it wasn't just the blast but it was after the blast I find a community of people that helped me find a new and better me and We are running yesterday 20 21 miles and throughout this whole day Joe is Redeveloping their website interface while we are me and you are over there like Okay time Joe's like, all right Claude here's the next prompt that you got to do I'm like what a dirtbag. I love that guy man. He's like my brother man So Joe supported you through 10 11 10 11 marathon. You have completed 32 33 Marathons. Yeah, 30 32 11 Boston's 5 Disney's 5 Chicago's for New York's to Berlin's 1, Tokyo 1 London and 1 Sydney and you did the half Iron Man. Yeah, I've done to half our names I've come short on three full Iron Man's Mm-hmm, and obviously I know somebody between the two of us has done the world championship, which I will do one day I saw the video of you running the the lava. What is it? The the lava? Yeah, the lava fields Yeah on the big island. That was it Ultraman. That wasn't the Kona World Championship. I've never done that right talk your talk Yeah, I talk it's out man. That's what you supposed to do. No, I just didn't want any confusion I've never competed at the World Championships of Iron Man. Well, that's a whole different thing. I did a different race there Yes, we're talking about you buddy. I want to take it back You know, I am interviewing you part on the slack. That's all right So I'll let you get away with it a little bit, but it's not too much you mentioned how you know Achilles kind of came into your life and and you know gave you helped helped to birth this new life that You're experiencing now that where you get to inspire people and participate in these challenges I mean out on the course it was unreal like how much support you were getting from the crowd It was an honor to support you and it was also just a delight to participate in This event which is the best day To be in New York City the best city in the world like New York City is undefeated Yeah, we had perfect conditions the crowds turned out they were Unbelievable and just the entire way it was like Cedric Cedric the amount of support that you were getting like it was it was such A cool thing, you know to be there. It just gave me hopefulness for humanity to see the unity and the community that In this time of division and acrimony where everybody seems to be fighting online like oh, this is this is real people You know when they get together I remember you kind of orient themselves around a single purpose and goal you and I were just we talked about it briefly out there But this is exactly the medicine that our humanity needs It's strangers from different ethnicities strangers from different countries cheering on each other and Cheering on people that are really trying hard to accomplish something. Do you remember? Mm-hmm? Like it's so cool today to not try hard It's so it's almost like it's almost cool to be nonchalant about something but for this one day out of the year We saw 60,000 people trying really really hard to defeat the voice on the inside of them that is desperately wanting them to be smaller and to be less and For you to have a stranger to come out there and to cheer you on That's never met you before that just wants to see you win Bro, that's that's the gift that we all need. Yeah, this is the true Medicine of our culture not just not just athletics not just running not just fitness But the spirit behind it Let me come out and cheer you on to help you win your your race That's beautiful man It'll go right over your head if you're not into this if you weren't there, but just listen to what I'm saying This is exactly what we need in our culture and humanity today Cheering on other people to see someone else win. Mm-hmm. That's what we need. Yeah Fundamentally when you get to the brass tacks of everything every single person just wants to be seen and understood and That experience yesterday was sort of that in action like I see you I feel you I understand you I'm here for you Yeah, I want you to win. I'm I'm here to support you, you know, like just to feel that experience and then what it feels like to support the you know, the crowd that's supporting people or in my case like supporting you like when you're When you kind of get out of your own self-obsession and make it about somebody else like that's where you discover happiness It's not through chasing all of these ego gratifying things or trying to you know Like surround yourself with a bunch of material items or prestigious jobs, etc It's like being of service man. That is the answer. I Really? I really want it So much this weekend. I wanted to get a jacket right and I wanted to get some cool merch to take back But one of the things that paled in comparison to all the things that I wanted is exactly what I got I got a chance to see you Be out there on a course where so many people walked up to you and just that may change my life and and I've heard that before but to know that what you have gone through was Medicine to someone else. It's such a blessing and I'd like to think that maybe what I've gone through losing both my legs Was medicine to someone else? Yes, it was poison to me almost but it was it was healing somebody else So maybe I didn't go through this in vain and maybe I didn't maybe this didn't happen for nothing And maybe what happened to you didn't happen for nothing Yeah, I mean you have said that what happened to you you now consider your finest hour Not because I was Not because I was super brave and not because I was in shape and not because I didn't feel the fear It was hey, I got a second chance, man. I Got a second chance There's so many dudes that this this week. We're gonna celebrate Veterans Day in about five days Five or six days we're gonna celebrate Veterans Day and I know that most of the people that are going to not be here or not going to Be the way they used to be. Those are the heroes. I was one of the lucky ones that got a second chance, man And look, I'm trying to make the best out of it just by being the best that I can be I got a second shot, man What am I doing? complaining about Minutia this is this is the true blessing. This is my finest hour. I got a second chance to make the most of I Am Just over the moon to finally and officially announce my partnership with Norda founded in 2020 during kovat by husband and wife team Nick and Willa Martyr everything about Norda shoes Screams next level from the unboxing experience to performing in them under pressure in the most demanding conditions I decided I was gonna check them out and bought my first pair the 001 a and I tested them for the first time on the trails around Joshua Tree. I noticed the difference Immediately mainly how instantly I felt connected to the terrain which is really what trail running is all about what I felt Was like this effortless conversation was taking place between myself and the earth and from that moment forward I was just obsessed when you think about most trail shoes. They're either light or durable. They're never both They're definitely not stylish but Norda found a way to innovate its way out of that trade and what they did was they built the world's first seamless trail Shoe from this bio based material called dyneema Which is 15 times stronger than steel but also light enough to float on water their idea of sustainability is building a shoe that lasts Hundreds of hard miles instead of a replacement every season. So please check them out Experience the ultimate in trail running innovation and shop the latest collection by visiting Norda run.com Everybody and anybody who spends time outdoors knows the moment you're reaching for a hold You're pulling your phone out for that shot at the top and what happens it like slips out of your hands And there's that half second of slow motion where all you can do is watch it fall and you're powerless Well Taurus built the q3 air pro for exactly that half-second. They developed it with legendary climber Tommy Caldwell So, you know, it's super legit and the engineering is really smart instead of making a thick brick like case like its competitors Taurus built this ingenious dual airbag cushion system They call it air duet which cradles your phone with an outer layer that catches the initial impact and an inner layer that Disperses what's left? You can actually see the airbag structure these buffers on the outside here Which for me is great because I have a habit of dropping my phone Which I did the other day on a sharp rock no less pretty convinced that my iPhone was a goner But amazingly thanks to Taurus. It was absolutely fine Here is a detail I'd flag the built-in magnetic stand prop it up to follow a workout frame a shot hands-free Navigate or charge wirelessly then it folds right back into the case and it's still slim enough for everyday life For listeners of the show Taurus is offering 15% off your order of the Taurus q3 air pro When you enter the code rich roll at Taurus life.com Well, we're kind of dancing around it so let's go directly towards it you're in Afghanistan It's summer of 2012. Yeah Walk me through exactly what happened Just like every day in Afghanistan and look just let you know, I'm no tough guy man, I'm not I'm not One of the the super duper Tough guys out there. You got guys in a way more heroic than me But this this particular summer 2012, we're doing a reconnaissance of a building You're you're a master sergeant in the army at the time. I wasn't a master. You weren't I Was a sergeant first-class an 82nd Airborne Division Oh 82nd Rangers lead the way. I'm an Airborne Ranger. Mm-hmm and Sure enough. We're doing a simple reconnaissance on a building the Taliban had been using this little hut or this little shack To store their arms and their explosives and all that stuff and we were just supposed to go and just find validity that this Was the place? We go in there and man we hit the jackpot it's like ammo right over there It's like wires, you know, like I'm not trying to teach people how to build bombs, but it's like bomb-making material in this room and We had a jackpot. It was almost like hey, you got everything done at your job within the first hour You're gonna get off early today. Sure enough We're taking pictures for sending all the photos and images up to headquarters and it was going so great rich that I just said Hey, look, hey, I'm gonna go outside and I'm gonna let the guys on the outer perimeter know that it's time to go It's I just make a slight movement to my right and in a split second. It feels like in the split second Like I've been tossed in a fire The loudest sound that I've ever heard Blows both my eardrums out the overpressure Punctures my lung cavity I'm being I'm in the air. I Never had a concussion before but it felt like time Was slowing down like super duper slow All of a sudden the time comes right back to normal. I'm laying on the ground. I don't know what What had happened? I don't know quite how bad it was. So I just tried to stand up like normal It was almost like if you ever ice-skated before and you slipped and fell down you try to stand back up But but you can't get your you can't get your grip. It was just like that The medic runs over to me and everything sounds like this now Stop. Oh Everything's muffled muffled. Yeah, because I can't hear the way that I could before I got like fluid coming out of my ears and The medic wants me to just stay stay on the ground Comes over and he takes a tourniquet starts putting tourniquet on my legs and never thought about looking down but this is the first time I just glanced down and You see your shoes right here you got these shoelaces right here. Yeah These these are sort of like the similar shoelaces that I had on my boots These shoelaces were like in little pieces all over the ground And I had canvas boots the pieces of the boot were like it looked like somebody put them in a shredder They were all over the ground and now that the sand that was brownish beige now, it's like pink and Now I could start to smell the the blood if you ever bit your tongue before and you kind of taste that metallic taste It smells like that It smells like that all around me and I know that I'm running out of time Because I can't feel the pain or is the adrenaline just coursing and you you're just in this surreal it's an instantaneous pain It feels like I'm on fire for like the first five five minutes Because it's shrapnel. It's extremely hot that's blown through all of this this flesh skin So that every piece of shrapnel is it? I mean, I don't know if you've been shot before but it's like it's it's like hot pieces of metal that are all That are all in my body and they're cooling down but not but not soon enough though. Yeah, so it's agony But I do remember starting to lose consciousness. I can't inhale like I normally would. Because the lungs have been punctured, every inhale that I do get, it's not a full inhale. Maybe it's like 60% or 40% or something like that. So as soon as I inhale, I need to do it again because I'm running out of air. And breaths are getting shorter. And now your field of view is this wide. But if you continue to hyperventilate, you're going to start seeing this wide field of view do this. It's starting to get dark on the edges. And I know I'm running out of time. I know I am, man. You know, I don't know how much, I don't know if I got five minutes left, I don't know, two minutes left. I don't know what it is. But I do remember them trying to get the helicopter. But when they tried to get the helicopter, I guess the ISIS or the Taliban, whoever the insurgents were that were on the ground, they were trying to shoot the helicopter out of the air. By the grace of God, man, by the grace of God Almighty, I get on the helicopter. Me, the interpreter, and another one of my soldiers are on the helicopter. And we get to the nearest hospital. It's almost like MASH. Have you ever seen MASH? Sure. Maybe some of the young guns that are listening to this, right? Maybe you ain't never seen a show called MASH, but it was just like the opening credits of MASH. I'm coming over a mountain range, and I'm landing at the nearest field hospital, and there are doctors and nurses that are running out on a tarmac to come and get me out of the gurney. And I go into this tent, and I slip into a coma. I have no recollection over the next eight days, man. But in that eight days, I obviously lose both my legs. Yeah, they tried to save the legs. They couldn't. And you wake up eight days later and are told that your legs are no longer. Where did you wake up? I wake... Did they take you back to the States, or...? They did. So I went from Kandahar to Bagram, from Bagram to Landstuhl, Germany, from Landstuhl, Germany to D.C., from D.C. to Bethesda, Maryland. So it was quick to Walter Reed. I'd say, well, eight days. With a couple stops? Yeah, with a few stops in between. But this is just... I have no recollection of any of that stuff. I saw a picture... Obviously, I woke up with a purple heart and a bronze star on my chest or somewhere in my bags or somewhere close to the hospital bed. But I don't remember being awarded them. But I have the certificates, and it's in my records and stuff. But I don't remember any of that stuff. But I wake up in a hospital room in Bethesda, Maryland, and not really knowing where I'm at. It's the first week of August. And I really don't even know that my legs are gone. I know that I had injured my legs. But because of phantom sensations, I don't have any reason to feel that there are no toes there or no shins there or no calf there. Because I still feel toes. It's just they're not there. How did you take the news? That's the lowest... That's the lowest point of my life. That's the lowest point of my life. I'm not a crier, man. I struggle to really tap in and be emotional in the moments where I probably should feel where I'm supposed to feel. But in that moment, every weight of pain, of embarrassment, of shame, of anger, it all culminated in that moment. I just yelled. I screamed. They had a feeding tube inside me. And I remember taking it out. I couldn't take it anymore. I was just sobbing uncontrollably. Because in my mind, how could this happen to me, man? Not that I would want it to happen to anybody else, Rich. But golly, man, why me? And why now? Both legs? How old were you? Right before my 34th birthday. So right before my 35th birthday, I was 34 years old. I mean, the fear and the pain, that's understandable. What's the shame piece about? At the time, I'm a Sergeant First Class in the US military. I should be promoted to Command Sergeant Major within a few years. Not a lot of senior guys get injured on patrols. But it's not like you messed up. I feel like I sort of did. And I'll tell you why. In Afghanistan, there's procedures to where you can track where the bomb would be at. And we use sensors. But because Afghanistan has so much shrapnel and screws and soda cans, it's trash everywhere. So we just had them turn down the sensitivity. Because we'd still be on that patrol. It's just so much there. We just kept getting hits. And I just felt like, man, why? Why me, man? Why? This doesn't happen to anybody. I got a wife. I got daughters. How in the world am I going to be a dad again? How am I going to protect my family? I'm going to walk funny from now on. I'm going to be in a wheelchair. That's not me. No. I'm going to need my wife to push me around in a wheelchair. No, I'm going to need her to drive me places. I'm a guy's guy. I'm a ranger, man. I'm not supposed to be getting pushed around in a wheelchair. I'm a ranger, man. I'm supposed to be jumping out of airplanes and walking up mountains and fighting Taliban, man. I'm not supposed to be in a hospital. I'm supposed to be out there with my guys. How long did you wallow in that state? If we're just being honest, I was still in that state. Yesterday is a prime example, man. I am duking it out with somebody's great granddad on mile 24. He's got the worst form, but he's so consistent. I'm like, what am I doing? It's part of this ego we talked about yesterday. I don't know if you remember it, but there's a part on the inside of me that still does not come to grips with me being a double amputee. Part of me is like, yo, if I get these legs back at mile 10, I am going to cook the rest of this field, which is also why on the downhills, I love going fast. When we were going downhill, I love picking up the pace. You were cooking. When I am going that fast, it makes me feel like I'm back, or maybe this is what it used to feel like. It helps me feel like maybe I'm in a time machine. I can go back and I can feel the way that I used to feel again. I appreciate the honesty, because it would be easy for you to just say, now it's just about me being an example for other people and showing them that they can do X, Y, and Z. Not that that's not central to what you are doing and what you're about, but to have the vulnerability to admit, actually, I still just want to feel like I'm normal again. That's one of the times in my life where I feel like I'm Cedric again. I'm that guy. I'm pre-injury. Yesterday, I don't know if you remember it, but when we were coming into Harlem, there's a bridge that's going downhill. I was lagging behind you and Joe for a little bit, but I ran up to you. Once I saw the bridge go down, I was like, all right, let's go boys. I couldn't go far, but on that downhill, man, I felt like 34 again. I felt terrific, man. If anybody could go back and feel 10 years younger, you would. Sure. In those moments, I feel like I'm 34 again, man. Not for nothing, you also said to me a couple times over the course of the day, look around, look what's happening, look what we get to do. None of this would be part of my life had that not happened to me. You were expressing gratitude for having this life where you get to do these things. Who knows what you would be doing had your life proceeded normally and you're in a different situation. My sense was that you feel as if your life has so much greater depth and meaning and you have this purpose that animates you and drives you. I could feel the thankfulness for that. Just please, please, please, if you're listening to this interview, please, I'm going to say this with as much like, be careful with this. I look at this now as a gift. And I don't know what someone's going through that's listening to this. But the moment I began to look at this as a gift, life changed. It stopped being this was a penalty that I paid and this was a curse that was put upon me. And now that I look at it as a gift, that's the way that life delivers it to me. I get to go and run with people like yourself. I get to go and run all over the world or I get sometimes to have people come up to me in the airport and just want to hug me or somebody say, hey, man, listen, can you make a video for my aunt? She just lost her leg. Could you just give her some inspiration, please? Can you just let her know everything's going to be all right? And that's the thing that will outlive me, man. It's not the stuff that I will accumulate or it's not the interviews that will last forever, but it's the people that you touch. It's the moments where you try to make it right for somebody else. If you could do that, that'll outlive you. How did you flip the switch? At what point did you move from wallowing in fear and shame and all of that to understanding and realizing, like taking ownership of this as perhaps like the birth of a new life? I'll tell you where. I'm in Bethesda. It's about a week and a half, maybe two weeks into my stay at Bethesda. And I'm not sure if you remember, but there's an Olympics every four years. But when they do the Olympics, usually in August, it's right before September. And I am watching the 2012 Olympics. And for that week and a half, two weeks, I'm watching the first double amputee prosthetic blade runner. And he's competing against regular dudes. And I'm like, Oscar was out there. And I'm like, oh, man, what a time to be in the ER. The timing of that was just perfect for me. I was able to witness someone that had been in a situation similar to mine do what everybody said he should not be doing. He's running against able bodied Olympians and he's winning. That was sort of like the light that I needed at that moment. A day later, I try to cut on the cut on the TV. And in Bethesda, it's one of the best hospitals you could ever go to if you're in the military. But the Wi-Fi went out. And when the Wi-Fi goes out, the cable's out. And I'm hitting the little button right there on the bed. I'm trying to turn it on and no Wi-Fi, no cable. I try to grab my iPad. No Wi-Fi. It's got games downloaded on here. I'm like, ah, nothing. And I'm not sure if this was maybe the first time where I started practicing like stillness. But in this moment. I am very still and there's nothing to try and grab my attention. I have to be totally focused. It's totally silent in there. It's dark. And the nurse had just left. So she won't be back for about a couple hours. And it's just me in silence. And I desperately am looking for something to distract me. The last thing I want to do is deal with this right at the time. So there's a stack of care packages right off to the side of the bed. And these are from people all over the United States that packed care packages for the troops. Man, I must have had a pile of this high. And I go over rich right on top. There's a box and it's got a little weight to it. I go open it up. It's got like bubble wrap packing peanuts in there. And sure enough, there is a pack of paper and a pack of pencils. The old school kind with the number two, the little paint, the eraser. Perfect. And I'm looking through this box and it's got candy. It's got magazines. It's got combs. It's got I don't know if you remember Chia Pets. It's got Chia Pets in there. All types of stuff. Just stuff for you to kind of get your mood up. I look through the box and I see the pencils and I see the papers. Just no pencil sharpener in there. And this sends me over the edge. I'm already frustrated. The cable's out and I'm already frustrated. The nurses are not going to come back for another couple of hours. I can't watch Oscar. He's supposed to break some other record. And now I am without a pencil sharpener. And I just yell at God. I get angry at God. And I say, how could you let this happen to me? And when is it going to get better? Why me? And when is it going to get better? No answers. You would think that God was. speak with words that we can understand but this was this is him speaking in silence until i hear these words maybe about five minutes later it's like you are the pencil now keep in mind i don't have this box right in front of me anymore i just laid it to the side and i'm yelling up at the ceiling and the answer is you are the pencil i am the pencil you me are you sure yes it was just like this and over the last i don't know what 14 years not only do i understand that hey man i'm the pencil yeah i am but you are too dark what does that mean you are the pencil i said the same thing i said what is it bro it's almost like we switch places what does that mean i'm the pencil but this is what are you supposed to do with that let me tell you man those pencils you got lead in your head i got lead in my hair that's exactly what i felt like is that what it means no man those pencils it was like a pack of 10 of them and because i didn't have the sharpener i wish i i mean i looked on doordash and uber eats all over manhattan for somebody would deliver me a pack of pencils for this interview but it's supposed to be like this i guess but in this pack of pencils that was on this in this care package i said man i'm the pencil but without the pencil sharpener this pencil as good as it is it never truly achieves its purpose without the pencil sharpener yes great the pencil will always be a pencil the pencil will always have meaning but it will never achieve purpose unless it meets the sharpener you you you would have never been the rich that you are today had you never gone through your sharpener experience i am the same way this was my sharpening experience and for one slight moment it took the pain away from what happened and it gave this pain purpose oh wait a minute you mean to tell me that just as that pencil needs that sharpener i need the sharpening of life oh man wait a minute so so when tough things happen it has a purpose if that sharpener can sharpen that pencil that pencil can achieve its life purpose and here's the crazy thing about the pencil without that sharpener that lead will always be inside it will never be exposed and without the sharpener of life the thing that's inside you it will never make it to the light man it'll always be buried under the parts of you it'll always be buried under the ego or the money or the fame or the fortune or whatever it'll always be in track it'll always be in there but the moment you go into the sharpener the best parts of you they don't stay on the inside anymore they come on the outside how many people you know that are that are truly great today they went through a sharpening experience and the best parts of them the world could see now man you don't get no michael jordan without him being cut from the varsity you don't get the magic johnson we see today without the hiv diagnosis you you don't man you don't you don't get batman without his parents getting uh killed you don't even get to know alfred until his parents are killed man you don't get a superman without krypton blowing up and you don't get a cedric king without him stepping on a bomb in afghanistan this episode is brought to you by rivian when i got behind the wheel of the r2 with rj the founder the thing that stuck with me wasn't the exterior it was realizing that there was a place for everything all the stuff that usually ends up loose on the floor of a car had a spot specifically designed for it there's hidden storage a front trunk rear seats that fold flat and a drop glass on the lift gate so you can toss in groceries without opening the whole thing these are small decisions but they add up to far more room than the outside suggests inside it's built to be lived in the panoramic glass roof floods the cabin with light and the back seat has real legroom the whole palette is inspired by nature so it feels considered rather than default it's the kind of design you notice more the longer you live with it see for yourself to book a demo drive head to rivian.com backslash demo dash drive this episode is brought to you by whoop the not a the wearable health and fitness coach that gives you personalized and very helpful insights into your sleep recovery strain and how your daily choices are actually landing in your body we know how some choices land if we stay up too late if we're overly stressed we know it will degrade how we feel the next day but we also make many other choices we're blithely unaware impact our bodies negatively and for me it was actually an epiphany to see in a graph how eating late before bed raises my stress levels and resting heart rate while i sleep which negatively impacts sleep quality and hrv in quite surprising ways for me this is huge and hugely empowering because it takes the argument out of my head and puts the data in front of my eyes how i'm actually recovering what the accumulated strain has cost me whether my body is absorbing the work or just tolerating it also it's not only for people interested in physical training anybody juggling work travel family stress trying not to feel wrecked by thursday all of you all of us we get the same thing your body's been telling you something and here is your opportunity to hear it a little bit better with whoop go to join.whoop.com slash roll for one month free of whoop we talked about it a little bit out on the course uh this thing that my wife always reminds me of which is that everything that happens to us is neutral until you apply perspective meaning things happen we make mistakes we succeed at things we fall short and then the world has its say and you know things occur you what happened to you happen to you everybody has their version of that it's not going to be as extreme as what you have endured but we're so quick to label these things as bad or good terrible awesome oh that's amazing oh that's the worst thing the worst outcome i could have imagined blah blah blah and we're doing it in the moment and we don't have really any evidence to support a positive or negative perspective on either of these things and ultimately it's a choice and if you believe as i do that we're here to grow evolve and serve everything that happens is serving that because everything is an opportunity to grow if you can perceive it as such and this story or this analogy or metaphor about being the pencil leads to the second observation which is that a pencil is ultimately a tool for somebody to use and if you're a pencil you are a utility for somebody else's problem solving or creative expression and if you see yourself as that as i know you do like you being out on the marathon course you're basically like transmitting this message of like i am a tool for the inspiration of others like people can project upon you like their own fears and see what you're doing and extract inspiration from that and in a sense using you in the most positive kind of interpretation of the word use because use can be a negative thing but like using you for their own personal betterment that's right yesterday before we started or maybe in the first few miles we got to brooklyn and i was like yo i just want to be a billboard for what's possible in someone else's life like i told you god gave me a second chance man it ain't about me no more and to your point yes it's how you look at what happened to you it's not about what happened to you it's how you see it i did not see this in the beginning so i don't want anybody to think they got to hurry up and get to this place a reflection right now nah it took me a while man but i think this moment of reflection where the pencil happened this pencil analogy that helped me along the road a little bit but it still took a lot of time for me to see that this could be used for good um i mean like every superhero that we always talk about um there is power in every pain and i think that it's very it's very irresponsible of us to want power without problems this was a super problem especially in the beginning but from this i extract a superpower i know that they're they're fictitious you know superheroes but i think that the the story behind them is so powerful it's for us to look at what happens to us some unfortunate circumstances can be turned around and some very powerful tools that we could use not for ourself but for 1.7 million people looking on the course yesterday yes it's my pain but maybe i can show you that hey maybe god didn't give up on you either or maybe or maybe yes you just became a single parent but maybe you can keep going too because we're doing it we're living proof that you can keep going you don't have to tap out you can if you want to but you don't have to and if you find the strength to keep going there are tangible benefits that you will get in life but more importantly there's people that you're going to bless that will your gift will outlive you the the reflex reflexive kind of defense against that that i can kind of hear in my head from the average person is well like what do i have to give you know like yeah i have my pain but like i didn't lose my legs and like you know my story isn't all that extreme so you know it doesn't really mean that much in terms of how it might impact other people but i think you know everybody has their pain and your pain is your pain and you're this extreme example of it but it's really just again like a metaphor for like everybody nobody gets gets out of life alive you know we all have our we're all on our hero's journey and we all have our lowest moments and that that that that thing that happens in the second at the bottom of the second act where all hope is lost you know you know we're all living that out on some level like that archetype right and to be able to be you as a mirror for everyone else to kind of reflect on their own like where they are in their own hero's journey and to say if i'm not there yet or if i'm in that really dark place like there is hope on the other side there is possibility there is a way to like use it as alchemy to to transform it to transmute it into something positive do not get and everybody's story is worthy of telling we're all we've all we've all lived a unique set of experiences and that has value one of my favorite books that i ran across especially maybe two two books uh man search for meaning i was given this book a week before this happened the chaplain the week before the week before this the chaplain was trying to make it out to our outpost and because there's so many there's so many uh ambushes to vehicle vehicle convoys the chaplain couldn't make it out to our outpost but the week before this happened the chaplain comes out he has a little service in our little tent where we eat at and he has a stack of books and he leaves some books some bibles and stuff and man search for meaning was the last book they were left most of the guys just took the bibles right so i was like yo i've heard about victor frankel but i i didn't have a book so the week prior to this happening i get to the place i think the last chapter i got to was the part where they were finding the value of that little small like you're lucky if you find a pea in this bottom of this watery soup and it just baffled me i was like wow they were at a point so low that happiness was finding a small piece of rice or a pea in the bottom of a questionably watery soup a cold watery soup i was like wow that means that your your perception of what happy or blessed or thankful can be shifted so much probably the next day i got injured but that that that was one of the that was one of the guides to this happening a year before this happened i finished the book called the alchemist and to your point with the alchemy this is you taking something that's so abstract and turning it into something beautiful something that's not initially beautiful something that is anything but beautiful but you could turn it into your own goal you could turn it i don't mean goal in the set in the sense of something i aspire to go get but you could turn it into something very rare you could turn it into something very rare something very beautiful by your attitude by the way that you see it now a for the person that is listening to this and say man i'm not i don't have a one percent injury i'm not one of the the people that was given life-changing money or i i'm not charismatic and what do i have to give the world. If you feel like that right now, you are at the right place, the right podcast. Here it is right here. You must start with living a life of service. Yesterday, I know we keep saying yesterday, but yesterday, right before we started the marathon, I don't know, but I was super nervous, man. And every time I get super nervous because I know I'm getting ready to go in and fight this humongous bully for the next six hours, I tried and it worked. It worked. What I did was I started going around hugging other people and encouraging other people. And soon, the fear that I did have that I was going to have to go and face this six-hour task started becoming, hey, let me give encouragement to the people that are getting ready to tackle this too. And they were just as afraid as I am. They were just as nervous as I am. But what I did was I took this nervous energy and I put it to use through giving away the very thing that I needed, the very encouragement that I needed to say, okay, we could do this. I was giving it away. And by me giving away hugs and smiles and reassurance to other people, and in a certain way, that kind of quelled the storm for me. If you practice it enough, it will work in your darkest moments. Anytime I got to go on stage and give a talk, I spend time hugging and giving away the great energy because it's a reflection. It bounces back to you. Even when you do it selfishly, you receive exponentially. One hundred percent. It almost doesn't matter your motivations. When you say service, I think people conflate that with like, you got to go work a soup kitchen or something like that. It's a mentality shift in how you're just interacting with other people in the world. Hey, man, it takes nothing to say, hey, look, I'm at Starbucks right now. I'm at the coffee wherever. I'm going to grab two cups because I know somebody that I work with will probably want a coffee right now. It doesn't matter if they want the cup or not. It's just you are being of service to someone else. Hey, look, when I go to the airport today, maybe the guy needs this extra zell that I give him. Hey, look, man, hey, here's 20 bucks or 50 bucks or whatever it is. I want to make sure that the moments where I feel like that I can, I feel service. I know it sounds cliche as it may be like corny, but it really works because you stop looking at yourself differently. When you live a life to give, you stop seeing yourself the same. You start seeing yourself as a person that is not confined to the way that you used to be. Now you start seeing yourself as, wait, I have just evolved into a different dimension. Now I am not trapped by what I thought was just limiting forces. Just me being the old way that I was. Now the choices that I make have superseded the need that I thought I had to be in. I had to be in this little box. I had to be the old Cedric. Nope. Now I can give and it doesn't matter what the circumstances are. I may give now. Not just in word, but also in deed. I hope it makes sense, man. I hope I'm saying it right. Here's how it's going to make sense. Let's go back to the Bronx. I think it was on the bridge to Harlem. You're starting to fade a little bit. This is when Joe was working on the website. We're up ahead. Knee deep in Claude. We turn around, we're like, where's Cedric? You were way back. I witnessed something I'll never forget because I knew you were hurting. You pulled over to the side and there was a woman sitting on the curb. Instead of obsessing on your own challenge in the moment, you stopped and you leaned down and you started talking to her and you started asking her how she was doing and encouraging her that she could get back up and complete this thing. You helped her up and got her back on her feet and moving again. I was like, that is unbelievable. During these moments, I know that it's not me anymore because I'm out of gas, man. I got nothing left in the tank. When I am out of gas and I got nothing left in the tank, I know that there's moments of self-reflection, but I also know that I am in a minefield, so to speak, of people that are going through the same thing that I am going through. It's just, you got to look around to your left, your right, your front, your back, and there's going to be somebody that's there that's struggling just like you. Sure enough, my Bluetooth was acting up, so I couldn't be distracted in this moment. I was like, oh man, where is that song at? What were you listening to? Were you listening to music? I had gospel going on for the first 13 miles at Mahalia Jackson. I had Kurt Franklin was everybody there. At mile 13, we crossed the Pulaski Bridge and my playlist starts to loop again. I was like, all right, let me find something else. I caught on a different YouTube playlist. I don't know what goes on, but sometimes when we get around a lot of people, my Bluetooth starts acting up. Right as we're coming up that hill, Bluetooth's out. I'm like, where in the world is going on? Start checking all the connections. To my left, I see somebody that's sitting down. It looked like she was in tears. Joe and I have seen this 100 times, man, where there have been people out there that are in tears because marathons tend to make you emotional when you got nothing left. I was like, hey, listen, you got this. It ain't over. This is exactly where you're supposed to be at. This is the time. This is your moment right now. You're not going to brag about any other time in this marathon, but you will brag about this moment. There's going to come a day, maybe a week from now, maybe a year from now, but you're going to brag about the moment where you had nothing left and you got up and you kept going. That's the moment you're going to remember. That's the moment that you're going to remember when grandmas got chemo in a couple of years and you got up and kept fighting. You kept believing in yourself. That's the moment that you're going to take someone else to be able to encourage them. It ain't the moments where we got all the energy. It ain't the moments we got all the money. Those are not the moments that we treasure. If we're being honest, we treasure the moments where it was dark and it was two or three dudes with baseball bats and you still had to put your dukes up and fight anyway. Those are the moments that you remember that you're going to be so proud of yourself, man. What did she say to you when you said that to her? She said nothing. She didn't say anything. She said not one word. She got up. No, well, she did. She said, thank you. She got up, and this is what made me a little afraid. She got up, she started walking, and then she started running. I was like, uh-oh. I may have sabotaged this lady. Maybe she's going to hit the gas pedals too hard. I don't know, but I never saw her again. I don't know what it was, I don't know what it was, but I hope that if she were listening to this right now, I would thank her for allowing me to be part of that story that she tells herself. In addition to looking at what happened to you as this gift, you also have this perspective that you were spared. You told me out on the course, I'm not sure I totally understand, that when it occurred, there were like two grenades that the pins were still in, meaning, I guess, that it could have been a lot worse. It could have taken your life. Yeah. Had it gone a different way. All right. Shout out to Joe. A hand grenade is no bigger than this soda can right here. It may be just a little taller, but it's no bigger than this. That's not soda. That's a fine go brewing. This is a fine go brewing. Elixir of life. Non-alcoholic beer. Shout out to go brewing. But a grenade is no bigger than this soda can right here, this beer can. I had two of them hooked to me. A grenade is very simple. It's an explosive. It's a spoon and it's a pin. This spoon will keep this grenade dormant for eternity. If this pin is in this grenade, you can remove the pin and guess what? As long as you hold that spoon still, it will not explode until the end of the world. But the moment you let that spoon go, you got about five seconds and it's going to have a 35 meter kill radius. I had two of them on me. Now, the force that blew both of these legs off was strong enough to separate appendages, was strong enough to rip the skin off of my right arm, was strong enough to take the rifle barrel and have it have a slight bend in it. Now, anybody that's listening to this, anybody that's ever been to Afghanistan, Iraq, and you do foot patrols, everybody has grenades. Every squad leader, every platoon sergeant, every team sergeant, everybody's got frag grenades or flash bangs. I just happened to have two of them on me that day and it's not even, that's very normal. It's very normal. The blast goes off. Those two pins stayed put. If it's strong enough to take my legs off, surely the blast is strong enough to rip those pins out. Surely it's strong enough to let those spoons fly, but it did. And I know I got a second chance, Rich. This ain't me banging my chest to say, ah, look at me, a tough one. No, man, I got a second chance. No, man, I got a second chance. I was given by the grace of God a second chance. And I hope that someone's listening to this, man, the second chance that you got, it's not for you. It's for you to give the good that's inside you. Use it wisely. Don't use it for more ego. Use it wisely. I remember this one time, Rich. This is the first second chance that I got. I say the second chance. I'm a paratrooper. I jump out of airplanes for a living. The sergeant comes out and says, everybody with more than 12 jumps, I want you here. Everybody with more than 12 jumps, I want you in a group over here. Early one morning, early one morning, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I was so excited that I had more than 12 jumps. I'm so glad that I am not with the rookies anymore. I gladly go over there. I don't even ask questions. Why this group? I didn't care. I just wanted to be with the senior guys over here. Everything's great. Little did I know, two hours later, I am sitting on the edge of a helicopter just like this, just like this, sitting on the edge of a helicopter. The ground is way down there. Now, obviously I got legs, so it looks a little bit different than how it does right now. But I'm sitting on the edge of a helicopter, me and my two buddies right here. It doesn't even occur to me why I am in this other formation. Didn't ask, didn't care. The jump master says 30 seconds, one minute, 30 seconds, 30 seconds, standby, and taps me on the back of my shoulder. I jump off. It's a helicopter jump. But since the helicopter jumps are slightly different in dynamic, it's a longer count. It's a longer free fall. 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000. Seems like an eternity. I'm falling. 5,000, 6,000. I feel the parachute start to open it up. And I am elated. Oh my goodness. My buddy that was just right here, he's way over there, about 100 yards. And there's a big problem at this point. I look up for the first time. I look up and there's not one, but two, three, four, five holes in the parachute, big as your chest. And now I got decision to make. The way that the army does parachuting, you get two chances at it. You get a main parachute, which mine now has five holes in it, and you get a secondary parachute right here. Now, if your second parachute doesn't work, hey, it's a bad day at the job for you. But just so happens that my second parachute is right here, ready to be deployed. I panic and I reach for it, Rich, and I started to pull it. And my buddy that's about a hundred yards over, he says, no, no, no, no, no. Don't pull the parachute. What do you mean? Don't pull the parachute. Look at the holes up in the parachute. I'm pulling. No, no, no, no. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. The holes are supposed to be there. What do you mean the holes are supposed to be there? They're supposed, don't touch it. They're supposed to be there. What do you mean? We're at a thousand feet above ground level and we're arguing about me pulling my reserve parachute. He said, no, the holes are built into the parachute. They actually provide forward thrust and control over the canopy. That is basically your new steering wheel. This is a better parachute. This is why you were in that different group. And just like the holes are built into that parachute, the holes are built into our life, dog. It's not the fact that the legs got blown off. Yeah. It's built into there and it is built in in such a way that now you have more control over your canopy. This will give you, if you can see it that way back to the point where your wife just said, if you can look at it for good, if you can use it for good, now you can control your descent a little bit better. It's not a tragedy. Stop panicking. Don't pull the let me get out of here strategy. No, just be calm for a second. The closer you get to the ground, you're going to be glad that you don't have to fall into that lake right there. Or you're going to be glad you don't have to crash into those trees or run into that building right there. You're going to be glad that you can slow the parachute down. You're going to be glad that you can land softly and not crash. Why? Because those holes up in that parachute, they're built in. It's supposed to be there. I love that. That's so fantastic. At the same time, I can't help but think that there was a communication breakdown in the chain of command. Why was it not? It was told to you that they're supposed to be these holes because you almost made a decision. Remember, remember in the beginning of the story, I didn't care why I was over here. This this group of people were almost the ones that did not have to have the group over here were novices. So they had parachutes that didn't have steering components. They had parachutes that didn't have holes in them. So they were at the mercy of whatever the wind gave them. These parachutists over here, they were a little bit more seasoned. They'd already done these jumps. So these guys are almost being given a responsibility to use these higher end parachutes, these more advanced parachutes. Why? Because they're more advanced parachutist. So I should have paid attention somewhere in those two, three hours of man. You're in prejump. You're in actions in the aircraft. You are doing these these pre parachute drills to be able to understand a it's going to be a little bit different experience. Man, I was so happy to be over here with the big dogs. You weren't paying attention. I didn't care. But obviously, Robinson, about 100 yards away, he did. And thank God for those moments in my life where these things have happened to kind of prepare me for moments like this to help me understand that these these holes in life are built in to my to my story. They're built onto the path. Dorothy is supposed to run into the poison poppies. She's supposed to run into the wicked witch of the West. She's supposed to run into people along her pathway to help her get back home. And no different than on the Wizard of Oz is no different than us in life. This is built into our pathway. Now, you can curse it or you can embrace it. You can call it a curse or you can call it this is my greatest gift, man. What are you calling it? What are you calling it? Are you calling the divorce? Are you calling it the worst thing ever? Are you calling it the worst day of my life? Or can you get to a place where you're thankful for it? I think you can. I think you can become thankful for it. What kind of kid were you? This is the part where I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but growing up, I got picked on. I got picked on. At least I have. I don't have older brothers. You have older brothers. No, I didn't either. But in my neighborhood, I wouldn't have grown up anywhere else. But there's a couple of dudes that was always older. That would roughhouse me up. And it was still confidence that I have now. It stole the confidence that I have now I should have had back then. Yeah. Because I didn't know how to stand up. It's easy to envision you like this kid who's just owning his peers with all this confidence and bluster. No, no. OK. All right. The kids that I hang up that I hung out with were just a little bit younger than me. All my buddies were just a little bit. I had two real, real good friends that were the same age as me, especially we're talking about ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th grade. We're talking about maybe seventh grade to 12th grade. All my really, really good friends were a little bit younger than me. So I felt like that this is where they carry this charisma comes from because I'm a little bit older. And when you're young, you kind of look up to older, older kids. So all my peers in the neighborhood were older, but they were always older guys than me. And those dudes or some of those dudes, some of those dudes would like I would get picked on a little bit. I get roughed house a little bit. Yeah. And honestly, you know what? Like like bullied or are you down or less than that? I would say now we talk about bullying in the 90s and the 80s is way different than bullying today. Not to not to take anything away from the bullying that you have on social. But this is physical like, hey, a play fight. You know, kids wrestle back in the 80s and 90s. You turn on WWF, WWE. We're practicing wrestling. But sometimes when you're growing up as guys, it gets physical and I would get owned a lot, man. I would go on a lot and it would be like on the back of the bus. Somewhere between the middle of where the second wheel well is to the back of the bus is some characters back there. It's almost like the back alley crew. And you want to go all the way back to the back of the bus because those dudes back there are a little bit older, a lot stronger. And if you happen to sit back there, you're going to catch it with some bored teenagers. They're just looking for weakness. What was going on at home? My my mom is a single mom. My dad struggled with alcohol dependence. He struggled with some really, really tough challenges with himself. And he was always my dad. I always loved him. I just never got a chance to spend a lot of time with him. I didn't grow up seeing a husband and a wife like be there for each other and grow together and disagree. So it affected the relationships that I have up to now. Having a father in your life, man, is so powerful. You could you could have the one guy that's proud of you and help you go out and conquer the world, man. Or or you could you could be bullied and not know how to stand up for yourself. A dad will make you go out there and fight that dude. Whereas if you don't have a dad, there's not going to hold you to it's not going to hold you and say you need to go stand up for him. So what's the relationship between that dynamic at home and with your peer group and the decision to enlist in the army? Like you were how old were you? Really young. I chose to go into the army. I was a little bit younger than the average guy, 17, when I went into the army. And I could not I could not do what some of the other kids in the neighborhood were doing. The older guys that were my age, those dudes were now starting to wear flashy clothes and they were, you know, dating really pretty girls. And those dudes had fast money and they were some of them. Some of them. Now, some of them have made some decisions where I knew that my mom and my grandparents, they would kill me. It wouldn't have it wouldn't be the streets that took me out. It would be them. So I had really, really strong family members that would not allow me to take the path of least resistance. I go into the military and now that same validation that I wanted from a male figure. Now I'm seeing that from dude with the guys that are in my face every day, the sergeants that demanded respect. I didn't live up to the respect that they demanded in the beginning. I didn't live up to the expectations in the beginning. I was a knucklehead when I first came in the military. I didn't know what it was to have a male figure yell at you and then hold you accountable. Without you feeling like it's personal, I would always think that, well, if somebody is yelling me, it must mean it's a personal thing. Not knowing that you can be you can be held accountable without catching feelings about it, without being emotional about it. He just wants to see you be better. But the ironic thing that I saw was the guys that had dads in their life. Man, they were they were the dudes was all good. We were both in the same trouble. But those they took it. They took it easier. They took it better. They didn't take it personal. And I wish that I had that. It took me a while to get to that place, man. Is dad in the past tense or is dad still around and do you have a relationship with him? That's a great question. He's passed away. Yeah. And I think from alcoholism. Yeah. It caught up to him. It caught up to him. A life of probably trying to extinguish the pain. And to be honest with you, I ran into a little bit of it, too. It wasn't alcohol. But when I got injured, it was. Please, please, please, please do not miss this. But for me about it, I was one of the fortunate ones not to get hooked on some of the prescriptions that I was given. The doctors were doing their job. They just were trying to keep me out of pain. You get your legs blown off and you have surgeries all the time. You get some really good. You get some really good drugs. I mean, sure. I don't want to say it so crass, but I was getting I was getting really good. Good medication to be able to manage pain with the problem with it is I started to abuse it a little bit. It's not because I wanted to be abusing it. It's not because I wanted to be irresponsible. But pain could be something that's so debilitating. Sometimes just a little bit of relief is great. And these things are highly addictive. I mean, like it's not a moral weakness, dude. I had a guy on the show recently who was a naval aviator and he was flying like like F-18 F-18s and was out on maneuvers. And just it's a long story, but he ended up losing control of the plane and was headed towards the ocean at 700 miles an hour. Just short of the the. He was like he was Mach point nine five, just short of the speed of sound. And he had a microsecond to to eject before his plane just vaporized on the ocean surface. And so he has the distinction of like having being the fastest ejection survivor in like naval aviating history. But it destroyed his body. It's a long story. But like, you know, he has a whole story of being in the V.A. system. And, you know, kind of how that typically goes and just being on a whole battery of medications. And like, you know, it's very difficult to kind of heal your way out of that. And a lot of people get stuck. And it's not surprising that a very large percentage of people end up addicted to these substances. The V.A. gets a bad rap. I was introduced to the V.A. in D.C. on Urban Street. And and in our country, we got a great system, but it takes two it takes two entities. The patient has to be adamant about going to make sure that they get the care. But the V.A. also has to do a better job and got to do a better job at meeting the veteran where where they are. And they try. They try. So I'm not I get great care. But look at me, though, man, I'm going to always get to the front of the line most times. I'm going to get the first phone call because of my catastrophic injuries. But I hope we can get to a place where we can help vets out, not just medically, but, you know, home homeless vets. I don't know how in the world you can go and fight for our country. And then when you come back home, you get left holding the bag. We got to do a better job of that. How did you snap out of the opioid addiction situation? I'll be honest. I didn't. I did it. It was not me. It was not me. Let me say this. Have you ever been in a situation where. One for me, it was one oxy I call oxys or something like that, oxy toxin or oxycodone, oxycodone. They're like so tiny. They're like the size of an Altoid mini. But I would take one and it would feel like, oh, I'm back. It felt horrific until it until it didn't. And then what used to take one oxy now takes two. And two almost felt a little bit better. I was like, OK. And it lasted for longer. So now I could be I could be rid of pain for hours now. Yeah, I'm in a wheelchair. Yes. These hands are all in a cast. This burns all of me. But you know what? I'm almost bulletproof now. I feel like, wow, basically almost like without the injury until two is not doing it for me anymore. And this took months, took months. But I got up to maybe like a five five a day habit. And I know that there are people that's five. That's all you take. But five was a lot for me. But it started to notice that a part of me was dying. The pain was dying. But part of me was dying, too, though, man. And I noticed it because every night we would watch something for the kids. My kids were really young at the time. And SpongeBob was like a big deal to them. And I would I would normally crack up watching SpongeBob. But but at this juncture, I was so out of it. I would just be dazed. I'd just be out of it. And they'd be cracking up laughing. And they expect, you know, when kids laugh and they see you, they're expecting you to laugh with them. But I wasn't. I was so out of it. And I remember just knowing that, you know, there's a part of me that's supposed to be laughing right now. That that is. is so far gone that I don't even find humor in this moment. I don't find enjoyment with this. I wanna be in this catatonic state longer so that I don't have to face the pain that is going to come when this wears off. So let me stay here a little bit longer. And I became addicted, not to necessarily the oxys, but I came addicted to not being in pain. Does that make sense? To not wanting to be in agony, I guess? Sure, I mean, the substance is just a vehicle for finding an exit door from whatever pain you're suffering. I mean, that is the nature of addiction. I didn't know that at the time. I'd never been in the hospital, maybe once. Ibuprofen was like the strongest thing that I ever had taken. So oxys was like, whoa. You weren't like getting drunk in high school and stuff like that? I don't drink now. I have had a moment where just being introduced to alcohol, I've had one real hard drunk moment. And that was like, nope, I'm not doing that anymore. In the barracks years ago, gin was like a big deal. And if you're old enough to buy it, you share it with your younger buddies, bro, that gin, that gin had me sinning. So it wasn't until you were in the military? When I came in the military, I had my first introduction to alcohol with real army dudes. Though I was like, oh, this makes you throw up. I don't wanna do that. Oh, this right here makes you breath smell bad. And hey, just when you think you're saying something real smooth to the ladies, it's not as cool as you thought it was. I just, alcohol never really took me. Well, also your dad. I didn't even, I did not even put two and two together to even think about that at the time. I just wanted to fit in with the guys in the military. But it just never, it never took, it never took. I was always doing something like playing hoops or something like that, or being with the girlfriend that I had at the time. So it was always like, oh, alcohol wasn't that thing. It wasn't until I got injured until where I was like, oh, this is what addiction is. It's not me being irresponsible. It's just me not wanting to be in agony. And you could tell yourself, hey, that's noble. Who wants to be in pain all day? This is understandable. Anybody would understand. I don't wanna be in agony all day, but my prescriptions are running low five times faster than they would be. And rightfully so, I'm in true agony. My legs have been blown off. And every day I'm in debilitating pain. I don't wanna do this anymore. And when you're faced with being in pain all day, not wanting to be here anymore, can I say that? Or oxys, let me take the oxys. I don't wanna end it all, but I don't wanna be in pain. So this is like the lesser of three evils or maybe. But now you're checked out. And so how do you come to the realization that you gotta end it, and how did you do that? Kids, man. We just had Christmas in Bethesda. They were going to Bethesda Elementary. I know what you're talking about. I grew up in Bethesda. So we've got the Bethesda thing. I used to deliver pizzas to, you know, like the. There's these dorm rooms where these military enlisted guys live that I think are working at Walter Reed or whatever. I was there all the time. Terrible tippers, by the way. These guys did not tip. Maybe a little bit better now, though. Hopefully. Anyway, and I went to Bethesda Elementary. So I went to, and your. My daughters went there. Your daughters went there, yeah. But here's the problem I have with Bethesda Elementary. D.C. has notorious snow every year. And this particular year, they call it snowmageddon. It's two or three blizzards. And they, Montgomery County gave them snow days for what felt like a whole month. Yeah, well, the thing about D.C. is it does get those big snow days, but you only get them like once or twice a year, and it's not enough. It's insufficient to justify the budget to have all the like snow removal equipment to keep the roads clean. So the thing, when you're a kid, it's awesome because every time it snows, the schools are closed, no matter what. Like it could be like one inch on the ground and no school, you know? My kids to this day think the world of Bethesda, Maryland because of those snow days. They would sit in that building that you deliver pizzas to, and they would sit in this building and they would just be like on 10. And because they had just had Christmas, they had all these toys that people in our family were trying to just try to make sure that they have somewhat of a normal first Christmas after this crazy thing that happened in their family. So they had all these new Barbies, all these new Barbies, and what I didn't understand as a dad and as a guy, little girls take the outfits and they get rid of the outfits and they start making their own outfits. My daughters took some paper towel and had made a new dress for Barbie and was getting Barbie a wedding in their little room. You know, those apartments, sometimes they have like two room apartments. Well, one of their rooms was their room. And I walk in or I roll in and they're having a wedding and they were like, dad, we need you to be the boy doll. I was like, what would you need me to do? They were like, we need you to read this. They're about to have a wedding and we need you to read this right here so we can hold them and can have their wedding. But they needed me to get out of the wheelchair onto the floor. And they wanted me to just be there in the same capacity that I was before. I didn't realize that, but I was making excuses to why I couldn't get out of the floor or I couldn't get onto the floor because I was so in my own. You were out of it. And I kept making legitimate, what I thought was legitimate excuses. I can't play with you guys the way that I used to. No, no, no, no, no. I just wanted to go back and be by myself, you know, partly I'm ashamed that I'm this out of it and this high, but part of it, I wanted to send them the message that I'm different now. And my daughter, to your question, my daughter says this, dad, we just want you to play with us the way you used to. We just want you to play with us the way that you used to play with us. And it just stopped everything. It was like, pause. And it resonates as I say it right now, just as much as it did back in December, 2013. Dad, we just want you to play with us. And I'm making excuses to why I can't play with them. I am now fighting for my own high. I'm now fighting to be apart from them. I'm fighting for my own, wanting to be smaller than what I know that I am. And in that moment, it might not have been my own strength, but I did see that there's something is wrong right now. I'm better than this. It wasn't, I got to go cold turkey. It wasn't that. It wasn't that at all, man. And to anyone who's struggling with something, I don't want to minimize your fight. I just did not have the strength to do it on my own. My daughter said something that stuck and that was the way out for me. That was the escape. That was my way out. And fortunately for me, man, I didn't, I never went back. Did you cold turkey it or do you wean yourself off? I know it's gonna, and once again, that's why I hate telling this part of the story. It wasn't that I weaned it. I just didn't go back and fill the prescription. So maybe I wasn't that far along. Maybe, and I don't want to minimize anybody's fight, but for me, I had gotten to the point where I knew something was wrong, but I could not have stopped if she hadn't said that, or I probably would not have stopped if I didn't notice it. But every time I would go to the doc, they would ask me, what kind of pain you on? And scale one to 10, I would always say like nine or 10, and I would always describe to them what it feels like, and they would always prescribe. I would just be like, hey. Sure. But I could have made it. You're gonna continue to prescribe it and it would escalate. Your using would escalate. And there would be, eventually, you were just gonna have to face some version of what you experienced. Like, that was inevitable. I mean, I'm glad you got out of it, but then you had to weather through your pain without it, right? What was that like? And what is your pain like now? Like, do you have the phantom pain? I do have phantom pains now, but I will say this. In those first few months of freedom, it wasn't like my life turned around. I felt 100%. It wasn't like that. It wasn't like that. I had to go through being okay with being in pain because now I had a real why to why I didn't want to be high. I had a why, I didn't mean for that to rhyme, but I had a why for why I didn't want to be high. It was those little girls wanted their dad back then. And maybe I loved them more than I loved being out of it. Maybe I loved them a little bit more than me wanting to be out of it. And that gave me just enough room to escape and stay gone. It was just a window that I needed to be okay with being in a little bit of pain. And sooner or later, what I didn't understand was my body would soon be okay and normalize this feeling. So these phantom pains that I have now, they're normal now, but back then it wasn't normal. It felt like my feet were on fire or it felt like my hands were like being crushed or felt like my leg was being set ablaze. Now my body has normalized that feeling. Every now and again, I do have extreme, extreme phantom pains and it feels like my toes are in a vice or some sort. But they come and they go. And it's been like that for 14 years. But I now know that I'm not at a situation where I have to go and medicate it. I'm okay with it raging and screaming and being painful and knowing that that will pass sooner or later and I'll go back to baseline. Yeah, it does suck when it happens. I don't know if it's gonna happen. Last night, last night, last night, prime example. 2.30 in the morning, I'll tell you, I woke up at 2.30 but I didn't tell you why. Phantom pain out of nowhere. Feels like I got an itch back of my foot. That's such a trip. I don't have a back of my foot. You can't satisfy that itch, yeah. So what do you do? You have to be in discomfort and know that it will pass and you cannot force it to pass sooner. You gotta sit in the discomfort and know that you don't have to medicate it, bro. It's almost like, hey, just because I'm tired doesn't mean I have to quit. Just because I'm in pain doesn't mean I have to medicate it. My body will figure it out. If I'm patient and I stay in the pocket, you see those quarterbacks that feel the heat and they wanna hurry up and get out of the pocket because they don't see the receiver yet and they just, let me get out of here. It's sort of like that. Nothing against quarterbacks that are mobile quarterbacks. Shout out to all the quarterbacks out there. All right, let me hit you with this. Did that flirtation with addiction change your relationship, your internal relationship with your father or the father that you never had? That's part one. And part two, seeing your daughter's desire to just have their dad back the way he was before, not the legs, but the energy, the presence, did that take you back to young Cedric and his desire to just wanna have a dad who was present with him? Is there any connective tissue there that you've thought about? Before I forget, question number one, to your point, yes. It totally, it totally gave me a new and better understanding of, oh, he's not staying away because he didn't wanna be with me. He's staying away because he's ashamed. He doesn't want me to pick up something that he's got on him or something that he's fighting. He doesn't want me seeing him succumb to what could be taking him down. So instead of my son seeing that, guess what, I will separate myself. I won't call as much. And I understand that now. I never took it personal, but I always just wish I coulda had somebody there guiding me through this uncertain manhood journey. I understand why he had to stay away now. Today, for my daughters, I always, from the day they were born, before I got injured, I always wanted to be, me and Joe talked about this, I always wanted to be the dad that I never got. I always wanted to be a little bit better. I want them to be able to have a dad that comes to recitals or comes to plays or sporting events swimming meets I want to be there and it feels just as good being there is Maybe if my dad had been there, maybe it's selfish a little bit Maybe I'm showing up to be able to relive something that I never had and that's alright with me right now. I I Hope what I what I don't do is I hope I don't weaponize and say I was always there for you So I I hope that I never I'd never be that guy. I'm doing because I Love being there And and that's all that really matters, you know in the first part The first part is yes. Hey for that first question. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't hold it against him because I understand that he was dealing with that and and for me Understanding it means oh this could have easily be you Cedric You didn't understand why he wasn't there but now I do and it and it's not because he was weak He just he just never got a chance to get that door open long enough for him to stay gone When you went through your struggles the people that saw you when you were at your best before this happened I Am sure that they have the very best stories of you of You being at your very best or your most witty or your funniest or at your best moments And those are the moments that they could share with the people that love you the most when my dad was younger He had friends all over the county and the day that he passed The day we had the funeral and everybody came up to me and we took me your dad boy He gave me the shot off his back Your dad gave me money when I had have a dime Your dad was just your dad was that as a means to say hey, look, I know he he succumbed to this Please don't get that guy mistaken with the guy that he really is. Mm-hmm I would not want someone coming to tell my daughter's stories of Me that were better than their stories of me. Does that make sense? Yeah July 20 2012 This is when it happens You told me yesterday that you ran Boston I think 21 months later the Boston Marathon. Yeah, man 21 months from everything that you just Elaborated on to running the Boston Marathon. How did that how is that possible? How did that happen? once again a Lot of grace a lot of things had to happen if you can remember April 2013 Boston Marathon Boston Marathon happens and at the finish line There are three separate huge bombs that are at the finish line and on American soil I am witnessing what just happened to me Just a year prior less than a year prior and now I'm watching it happen. I Just got my running legs. I Just got in my running legs so the walking leg is that I walked in here on I Had walked on those for a while and I got to the point where the doc was gonna give me the thumbs up So that I could start running. That's all I cared about I wanted to get back to doing what I used to do I was so laser focused on wanting to get back to the way things were And I just got my running blades and I'm putting them on and I'm doing my little steps and I'm trying to I'm seeing How light they are and seeing a more agile and at the back of the of the amputee Little OT facility. There's a TV and they had ESPN on there and I'm doing a workout And now I start to see one two, three, five Seven ten people congregate at the back of the room This is a massive gym. It has a track in it But now there's a crowd of people and the crowd is starting to get bigger in the back of the room and I stay look I stay running But by the time I come back to the next lap, I glance at the screen and there's like breaking news smoke people running carnage and I Put I mean I figure out what it happened and it's so ironic that I say is where you got to be careful when you ask for something and I can remember Wanting to help the victims or I didn't say victims the heroes of that day. I Can remember just saying a small prayer and saying man Lord Help me to be of service to people in Boston one of these days I would love to be there on the scene to be able to help out And you got to be careful. You got to be careful That was April 2013 One year after I said that small prayer was 21 months after I lose my legs I am at the starting line of the Boston marathon and Not just in a capacity to go and tell them my story But in a capacity to just show my story on the biggest stage dog. This is one Year after they had just experienced what I had experienced not even two years after me losing my legs and One of the greatest moments wasn't just for me to run it It was to be able to run it for a young man named Martin Richard Martin Was an eight-year-old and that was on the start or the finish line of the bombing the bomb The bombs were placed on the right side of the finish line As you're approaching Boylston on the left side on the right side and then a little bit further down and these bombs were placed in Strategic places right at the finish line where the supporters and the cheerers would have been the thickest Martin was an eight-year-old. He was standing right next to his little sister who was standing right next to his dad Mmm that that if you look at the video There is a backpack that gets set right at it. It is at his legs right there. Somebody walks off Moments later the bomb vaporizes the young well, it doesn't vaporize him, but it kills him it kills him His little sister becomes an amputee his dad loses hearing Um in in that particular day of the bombing It Anybody who's old enough to understand that that was a very significant moment American history because anybody's watching knows just especially in the running community knows just how How important that moment of a marathon finish line is and it's such a celebrated event And that's something that we hold. So dear not just as athletic as athletes, but as Americans We celebrate at finish lines. We celebrate at sporting events and for that to be attacked. It was just unbelievable Obviously fast-forward a year later. I am standing on the start line and it takes me nine hours make Eight eight or nine hours to get to the finish line, but I will say this I don't know if you ever in Boston But Boston is set up to where they put the hardest part of the race at the end and I'd never run I don't know anything about jails. I had done tough things before in the army, but I never done a man amputee I didn't understand the Exertion the energy cost that amputees they have to pay running on running blades as far different than running with a normal body You you burn way more calories. I think yesterday. I've burned like 8,000 calories This is just I mean, it's crazy. But that particular day I go into one of the medical tents and the medical tents They got to Boston a little bit more nice than the medical tents. They had here. Nothing against New York Marathon loved it yesterday But Boston medical tents at the time man. It looked like Club mad up in that Joker. They had cots They had pillows. They had those those green wool blankets They had hot soup in there with your little onion in the bottom and how you could just sip it He had hot cocoa in there. It was a cold day dog. It was so good up in there I go into the medical tent. I started laying back Guy my guys like hey, we got to get out of here and it's on Facebook I got it somewhere on Facebook where I just don't have it anymore. Hmm. I Have nothing and and we're at mile 18 And I don't know what and I mean got into the first of the Boston Hills yet It's going to get considerably harder as we go on I just don't have any answers. But when I go in this tip when I don't recognize is my Guide is like hey, let's get out of here as I'm leaving the tent without answers there's two other young ladies leaving the tent too and What I don't understand is three maybe two hours after I leave the tent they're still behind me and they take they tell me this we get to Beacon Hill as we turn on Beacon Hill and you turn on on a road and then you turn on Boylston as I'm going to the finish line those two young ladies. They tapped me just like everybody was tapping you yesterday and they wanted to talk And they said this they said hey Because of you we're gonna finish this marathon what you don't know is when you left that tent we told each other if you Keep going. We're gonna keep going if you stop we're gonna get on this train and we're gonna go home We're gonna call it over. We're gonna get out of here as long as he keeps going We're gonna keep going and it it just let me see that in life They're going to be people that are waiting for you to fail or succeed They're gonna be some people that are waiting for you to succeed so they can succeed They're gonna be some people that are waiting for you to fail so that they can give themselves an excuse to fail It just it just it just let me know that was another one of those lessons where a maybe this ain't for nothing Yeah, you're getting that Affirmation right away or that that kind of confirmation that This was this is a worthy path. It's a worthy path and I can I can be jaded I could be jaded about this happening. I could want things to be the way they used to Or I could do what your wife said and hey look use it for good Look at this in A manner to wear. Hey, look, this is a gift bro Use it to bless people What are you doing sitting around sulking because you you got dealt some bad cards, man Keep playing the game. Nobody quits playing cards just cuz you get dealt a bad hand No, what do you do? You keep playing hit me again Hit me again We don't quit playing cards cuz we got some bad No, we just learn to play better and that's what I had to do I just have to figure out how to play this game a little bit better You're a real-life Lieutenant Dan, you just have you have the choice of having a better attitude Lieutenant Dan with a good attitude, you know Gary positive Attitude of service and I know you've done stuff with the city's foundation. They like built you a house, right man Let me tell you I grew up watching You know a movie comes out in 94 I go in the army 95 I used to watch that movie every Every day I Back when you had DHS, we just bought the tape or maybe recorded when it came on TV, whatever it was but we watched every day and and In my wildest dream, I would have never thought that I would be hanging out with lieutenant Dan I would never have thought that I'd be hanging out with Gary Sinise All the time like I just got a text from Gary before I came to New York Hey, man, a thanks so much for what you did for the foundation out in Cali Well, I'll tell you I was in California. It was to represent the foundation and I was just like wow Am I in my wildest dream? I never would have thought this but Gary He's like our Bob Hope I guess for that prior generation. And yeah, I live in a house. That's that's totally mortgage-free in Sugarloaf In Atlanta, Georgia, I live on a TPC course. It's beautiful. I grew up. I grew up in a like a mobile home I grew up in a trailer man Getting I mean like in the poorest part of North Carolina And now I live in a in a in a great place in in Atlanta man you mentioned That when you did the Boston Marathon like you didn't like you didn't know like how am I gonna do this like how do I run on these things It was a whole education process of like figuring that out and learning how to do it And then I kind of entered this picture with you yesterday This is a new experience for me like I don't know I don't know how this works like, you know, how much what am I? What what are the needs like how do I show up for this person? Like how how do I support them? yeah, because your needs are gonna be unique and you kind of took me through like kind of what you needed and And I learned some things that are if I thought about it for a second We're are kind of obvious, but I'd never occurred to me The first being that your center of gravity is like, you know, four feet higher off the ground than the average person Yeah, what does that do to someone's balance? like all of the weight is way up top and you said, you know, the big thing is kind of running interference and being sort of like Security for me because people want to give me high fives or they bump into me Yeah, and I can fall really easily like I never thought about that Yeah, you saw it more than than Joe saw it because you were right beside me or right behind me the whole race you saw, I couldn't help but give people high fives. It just doesn't feel right. I was running behind you and I had my arms spread out at one point when it was really crowded because people were just getting really close to you. And I came close to tripping you like, I don't know, at least six times when I was running next to you. And I was like, because you have this wide gate, like the blades swing really wide. And I got into trouble with that. And I was like, I need to like make sure that people aren't coming up behind you too close or wanting to high five you in a way that you feel obliged to do it. And then you're off balance and you fall down. I couldn't help it. I just, I saw that there are people, and I don't know if you saw it, but yesterday I did it with the amputee that was slower than me. I couldn't help, but that's part of who we are as people. That was an interesting encounter actually. He was hurting just like I was hurting in 2014. My running blades had broken. Everything had gone wrong that particular day. And I just saw myself in him where nothing was working, but I still had, I think we met and ran into him at like mile 14 or something like that. Somewhere in Brooklyn or somewhere in Queens. But it was like, I've been that dude before. And I know where it feels like it's not gonna happen today. I'm doing the very best I can. I'm giving everything I got. And that finish line isn't budging. It's still so far away. These mile markers are not happening fast enough. I want to be at the end, but I'm right here. And I wish I could have told the guy, hey look, and this is what I would have told me back then. Hey, forget counting the miles, man. Just be here right now. Like be here present right now. Be right here on mile 14. If you're on mile 14, be right here. The more time you spend wanting to be at 26, the more you're gonna burn through way more energy. Because you're gonna be wanting to be somewhere where you're physically not. What you do is you are all in in this mile right here. I was guilty of it wanting to be at the LED screen yesterday on 23, coming up the hill. I wanted to be at the LED screen, but we were almost a half a mile away. But that's where you create fatigue at. And the great thing that Joe did yesterday was, hey, instead of wanting to be way down there, let's just make it to that next little light. Then there's a little red light right there. We'll run to that and then we'll take a break. And what that did was for me, and what that would have done for that young man was, hey, you now don't have to worry about going way down there. You don't now have to worry about trying to make it to year 50 of a marriage. Now you don't have to worry about making it to year 20 of a job. Hey, let's just get to the small goal right here. Let's get to that fire hydrant right there. And now your race is not 26 miles anymore. Now your race is to that stoplight right there. Forget about what's beyond there. Can you get to there? Yep, I can get to there. I think I can do it. Great, let's get to that. Worry about everything else after that. But that's the epitome of living in this moment. Yes, yes, we are on that red light and we're right here, but that I can get to. Maybe I can't get to the end of the marathon right now, but what I can do is I can get to that. I won't worry about beyond that. I can put all I got into here to there. And we'll worry about the rest when we get there. And it was a succession of us doing that. And that's what I wish I could have told that young man yesterday. Bro, don't worry about getting to the finish line. Let's get up this bridge right here. He was, I mean, the energy that I got from him is he was pretty closed down. Yeah, he was. Like he couldn't even receive what you were trying to say to him. Let me just say, you have a way of knowing exactly what I was thinking in that moment too. I was like, yo, you see it too. You were trying to crack him open and he wasn't having it. And maybe that was just a protective mechanism or a defense mechanism. But it kind of was strange, I thought. Because I'm the very person that could unlock it for him. But I'm also the very person that he would probably be the most defensible. Maybe, right. Like I ain't got it right now. But look, when you're fatigued, it's very hard for you to feel any kind of encouragement because you're constantly bombarded with the voice on the inside. That voice has so much of a place. Sometimes it doesn't matter how encouraging the outside voice is, you just get stuck on knowing that this ain't easy and it almost becomes abrasive. It becomes like noise where you're like, hey bro, stop, stop, stop, stop. Yeah, he was kind of repelling you a little bit. And his buddy was like, hey man, get on from here, man. His buddy's like, hey bro, get on from out here. Yeah, yeah. But I think for respect, they was like, okay, I got what you're trying to do. Yeah, all right, second thing. Non-obvious until you think about it and then it's obvious is the fact that you have far less surface area on your body than you would if you had your legs. And so that compromises your body's ability to offload heat. And so you overheat much more easily than a normal person would. Which rises your heart rate. I never thought about that. So your heart rate's running higher. And so a big part of this whole thing was every time we hit a hydration station, we had to get a lot of water so that you could douse your body. Try to offload that. Joe would come back with like two cups, right? Joe would run, he would get two cups. He's doing website, Joe would come back with two cups and they were like this full. When you turned around and you came back with like four or five cups, I was like, bro, let me hug you back. Throwing shade on Joe. He's your main man, dude. This guy's showing up for you. Joe came back with two cups one time and I was looking at him, I was like, you. No, Joe is there for you 100%. No, absolutely. Joe is not, I wish you guys would see him, but that's my guy, man. I met Joe back in 2015 in odd circumstances. But that dude has been an angel for me. I never would have thought that somebody would be so gracious, so much of a beautiful person to invite me into their life in such a tough time in their life. And from the day that I met the guy, and over the years, it's probably been what, I met him in 2015. It's 12 years now, 11 years now, almost 12, where God sometimes just brings people into your life that you don't even know how influential they will be until sometimes with people it's too late. But for me, it was just right on time. But he turned around and was there for me when I really needed to get out of that whole COVID, like get out and do something different, get back to training again. I had fallen to a place where I was doing a lot of hand cycling, nothing against hand cycling, but I knew that there was something bigger on the inside of me. There's things that I could do that were tougher. There was challenges that I needed to tackle with running. And I didn't have to stay on the hand cycle. I didn't have to do the wheelchair. I could still run where I could. And Joe came along and was like, hey, look, man, let's do something. At the time, it was London. I needed a London bib. And crazy circumstances, but we ended up running London maybe a couple of years later, but we did Chicago three times right out the gate trying to get Boston qualifier. And just a great dude, man. But yesterday you kept showing up with four cups of water. And I was like- Only because I didn't want to have to run back and forth anymore than I had to. You came back before, I remember the mile. We got to the end of Manhattan. We were getting ready to go into the Bronx. And you showed up with four cups. And these juggles were almost, all of them were full. I was like, bro, if I could buy you flowers right now, I would. Yeah, I would give you a bouquet and put them juggles right now. Good gracious. That stretch you're talking about on the Upper East Side when we're headed towards the Bronx, it's a false flat. Like it looks flat, but it's actually an incline and that plays with your head. Joe had two cups. I was like. But no, that was just some of the funniest things happen in some of the most turbulent times of your life. And if you can find the wherewithal to find the humor in it, it'll give you a little bit more staying power. Just looking at those moments where it was just like, we would see a funny, we would see somebody that's walking funny or we would laugh at something. And it would get me out of my own fatigue. Great times yesterday, man. Great times, bro. You said before we started recording that you didn't want me to pull any punches. You wanted a hard interview. I do, I do. And not just because I want you to be a hard ball, but I need people that got the balls enough to ask me questions that everyone else is afraid to ask. That force me to go into that dark room way in the back of the corner of my life and open that door and face whatever's in there. Because without that, what you end up doing is you just keep passing it by again and again and again. And you live your whole life being afraid to go down in that room. And that will manifest it into other fears in your life. So help me do what I'm afraid to do. All right, well, let's get into it. I mean, the entry point for me is asking you honestly, for you to respond honestly to the question, what are you using all of this, the running, the marathoning, the speaking, the external validation, what are you using all of that to run away from or avoid in your life? Because we're all running towards something and we're all running away from something to some extent or another. All right. Because you can hide in the marathon world and everyone's gonna pat you on the back, but when your head hits the pillow every night, you know there's some unfinished business that you just haven't yet attended to that needs a little bit of attention in your life. And it could be psychological, it could be relational, it could be anything, frankly. I am afraid of being normal. I'm afraid of going back to being normal. What would normal mean? Normal used to look like this. And keep in mind, we're talking about from this side of the river. Normal would be like having a D average in high school. Normal would look like being afraid to try out for the basketball team because you're afraid you get cut. Normal would be like being afraid to go ask the girl that you like in high school for a date because you're afraid that she's gonna turn you down. Normal would feel like really giving your all and trying to raise your hand and answer the question because you think you may know the answer that the teacher's asking, but you might get it wrong so you don't ask. That's what normal would feel like and I never wanna go back there again. Because that would mean? Because that would mean that maybe this whole ride meant nothing. Maybe this whole journey meant nothing. Let me say it even closer, that this whole journey was for nothing. That I didn't learn anything from this whole journey. That maybe I'm the same size as I was then that I am now. And I really hope that that's not the issue. And I validate that feeling by going out and doing these magnanimous feats of running marathons on running blades where I have every excuse to tap out and I don't. I try not to rest on that being who I am, but I try and say that I do that and what I do is a representation for who I really am. I wanna never get too close to what I do is who I am. The title Master Sergeant, it's great, but I ain't who I am. Who I am is a reflection of what that dude did. Who I am is a reflection of me getting into that ocean in Florida and giving it my very best and coming up short on a full Ironman. Why? Because I really am not good at sighting in open water and I really haven't figured out how to swim as good as I can. I probably should have figured out how to breathe on both sides sooner than I did, but I'm not normal. I'm not afraid of trying and I'm okay with trying and coming up short, but normal means that I didn't even try. Normal means that I ain't even put the wetsuit on. Normal means that I didn't even try to train. It used to be like this. If I don't ask her for her phone number, then I don't have to worry about getting turned down and if I don't get turned down, then that's a win, right? Nah, man, that's the old philosophy. If I don't try, then I don't lose and if I don't lose, then I win. Nah, dog, that ain't the way it work. This is the way it really works. If you try, you could lose and if you do lose, then that experience of you losing is a win, depending on how you look at it, but it's a win. She don't give you her phone number and guess what? You're a better man because of it because you taking that no, it builds character, man. If you don't take that note and you don't you don't build character You don't know how to take a loss and if you don't know how to take a loss now How can you be a better you? You're the same or maybe even smaller than you were before You gotta be able to take these licks in life and be able to be a better person for it How you go? How you gonna be? How you gonna be called a champ if you haven't lost? I Get it. Yes, Rocky Marciano. Yes, Floyd Mayweather never lost a fight. Okay The truth of the matter is the heroes that we really root for They took else Brady lost some Super Bowls. Do I need to remind you? He lost two of them here in this very city Or because of this very city But we call him the greatest Not cuz he won them all Do lost homes But he stayed with it Muhammad Ali we call the greatest He went all this fights, man. It took some losses. He took some losses at the end of his career, but we call him the greatest why? Ain't cuz he won a moment. It's cuz he won some he won a lot and we saw him still win in defeat All right, man I'm of two minds with what you just said on the one hand like Deeply inspirational and I appreciate the message that you shared There's another part of me that also feels on some level like what you just said is an artful dodge to my question, okay the valid part of the answer was this fear of Returning to your definition of normal and what would that represent right? What I was asking you to do is to Share with me areas of your life that remain blind spots Where you can kind of shroud yourself in this identity that you've crafted as this inspirational figure That allows you to not really have to look at these other parts of your life that are maybe not Operating as well. Joe, you know, I'm gonna dirt bag Is really you ask for it Like this is like yesterday when I was like, this is what you this is what you asked for This is what you cited for you asked me to push you a little bit So this is my way of like trying to push you you dirty so-and-so All right. Hey, man, I wouldn't have gone there you you you specifically Petitioned for this. All right There's a part of me that's still embarrassed by what I look like There's a part of me that's embarrassed by how I still walk There's a part of me that's afraid that I can't protect the people I love If something were to happen there's a part of me that's afraid that I won't be able to provide for my family And I'm the one they look to There's a part of me that feels like I'll come up short when I'm needed the most There's a part of me that feels like that I'll embarrass Myself and the people that are counting on me Because it make us a stupid decision And all these things could happen no matter what these circumstances are Right now, they're all very normal human fears You realize that they are but when you are in a situation to where That thing is so glaring you tend to become polarized on It because it's right here and you're daggone face every day So it it yells for the attention of this is why you'll come up short or this is why people look at you and stare at you or like here's here's one and It's probably as of late. I Kind of avoid going to elevator sometimes not that I have choice But I travel a lot and I'm always around somebody that It's like so what happened? Hmm And sometimes I don't want to be in a trapped environment where there's no exit And I gotta be and I gotta be on right because there's an expectation that Especially if someone knows who you are that when they encounter you. Yeah, like a 110 percent and sometimes you don't want to be Maybe sometimes you don't want it. Okay. Yes, we're doing this one right now that you want to be the Gary Sinise Lieutenant Dan sometimes I want to be sometimes I don't want to talk about at all, right? Like yesterday or does just because of how you look is that the only thing that like people want to talk to you about I Don't know how you just did this but You don't even know I don't even think you know you did it but you just tapped into a space where I Was thinking about the other day where I was like, yo What if this never happened? Could I go back to being Unnoticed because I blend in I look just like everybody else. Would you be okay with that? What if you had to go back and and go to the gym and not be able to get the prime? Parking spot at the front of the gym anymore Oh, what about if you walked into the VA and they didn't roll up the red carpet for you? What if You had to give back the house because maybe you don't need all the adaptations that this house has And what would you do if you had to go back and just be a regular dude with Gary? Would you be okay with that? And I don't know if I would know this is work. It's interesting because I Think it's also very human to have an attachment to The Attention and the sense of specialness that you have no, you know Dude, I'm with you. Trust me, you know, like it's its own. It's its own kind of addiction, right? Like It's nice We were talking about this out on the course Like it's absolutely right with us like a lot of people like giving you attention and I was getting a fair amount of that as well, and I was like, yeah, I like it like it's it makes me feel good and You have to be careful about that because That that's just it's feeding your ego in an unhealthy way It's great if it's an acknowledgement that the work that I've done has had a meaningful impact on them Yeah, but downstream of that is what it does to your ego Why do you know when it's doing that don't you into you know, kind of an unhealthy place the One of the greatest blessings is that you ran yesterday because typically I would have to high-five everybody that I mean Gary Sneeze gave you a house you get all this attention You're like in your normal life with two legs. You ain't getting all this attention You're charismatic and you're fun to hang out with dude, but like it would get capped It would it would it was in the military in the military. So I had I had a great I think I had like a similar personality but I think sometimes what what happens in life is you Become a magnified version of whatever it is that you already carry on the inside of you Circumstances magnified or they minimize it. I think for me it magnified I would like to think it magnified who already was but yes, they God's like God's like you're a good candidate for this like double amputee Stuff yeah, it's like you're charismatic and people are gonna like you and you know how to get people to pay attention to you And this is a good equation. So I'm this is this is the recipe. I'm gonna give this dude. Yeah. Hey, so look yesterday you 100% would you just talking about God gave you a set of skills to where you not only could do this. Well, but you could also handle Bro, it must have been a thousand people come up to you or yelled like the whole time like the whole time and I was Loving it too cuz I was like man a pour it on because usually Joe is always telling me Hey, bro, you got to take off your headphones, man Oh, you got to turn down your music. These people are in here and and Joe is like yo No, man, you you got to hear all this right here. These people are loving you. They give him to give me all this man You're awesome. You're great and it happened the whole day yesterday, but for you You took so much of the brunt all the pressure off me to where I normally have to be like, yeah, thanks What's up? God bless you. All right. Thanks. Hey, don't let me catch you all that stuff right there They were giving you all that love and I was like man. Thank God rich You took the pressure off me, but I got the chance to see how you handle it though And now once were you like, all right. Yep. Hey, thanks, man. Whatever bro. You took it all in stride You took it like from the first person that told you a rich I respect you to the very last person You gave everybody the same level of thank you. It means so much man. Thank you I just grateful for you saying that you made every single person feel like that and for me that was like a great lesson I was like, hey, man I don't have to give everybody the same amount of love or I don't have to give this person less than the first person It was like you stay constant the whole day. I don't know how you did that, but I just looked at you I was like, okay, that's what it looks like. At least sometimes you have to have that reference point Well, it's not losing sight of Like what a privilege that is yeah to be in this position where you're impacting people where they feel like they want to go out of their way to Acknowledge that and have a moment with you and if you can't show up for that moment and be present For them and give them an experience that will like validate what they Wanted to share with you Then you've kind of lost the plot and also they're gonna walk away from that experience Like with a rearranged notion of who you are because they obviously approached you because they think of you in a certain way and if you kind of act in a way that is Not consistent with that That's the only real-life experience They've ever had with you and probably ever will and they're gonna completely change their perspective on who you are It will rewrite that history You just said this earlier Doesn't that put the pressure back on you to be on when maybe you don't feel but it's a small sure and it's a small But it's a small price to pay. I mean I did there were a couple times maybe like even when you weren't aware where Those things were happening but like it was interfering with my ability to like Like serve you like I was getting water for you and someone And like dude, and I was like no I can't know my job my job is to like make sure that you're you know Help Joe take care of you And so if it got in the way of that like I wasn't as do you remember at the finish line at the finish line? You did one of the coolest things ever and I didn't want I didn't want you to But you did this right? I was like No, I I just want to go sit down and the young lady's like hey look. Hey Wait rich. Do you want to go to VI patient? Do you want to do this and they were basically rolling out the red carpet for you? But you was like nah, man Um, look let's just do what's right for Cedric right now forget all the other stuff But that's what I always want to be one day. If fame should ever come my way I would want to be the same as I would be in disaster or in in need or in Trouble situations as I would be when things are coming my way very easily I wouldn't want to accept something and turbulent times that wouldn't accept in great times or vice versa well, I think you're In good stead to be able to acquit yourself in that way based upon the experience That I've had with you over the last 48 hours. I hope so, man I hope so you did that with every single person that wanted to come up and give you love and I was like, wow That is way I want to be so Joe approached me To get involved in your world and You know do this thing with you at a time when I was still like I had this ambition of Doing the New York City Marathon to kind of celebrate turning 60 and like this recovery from the surgery But in all candor I was like thinking about myself, you know it's like this is what it's gonna be like and I'm gonna do this and and like assisting another athlete wasn't really in my Playbook. Yeah, you know I was like, no, I don't want I want it to be You know, like why this is my story, you know what I mean? and so I kind of like bristled at it. Yeah for that reason and also because I Wasn't sure I was gonna be able to do it and then to layer on top of that. Oh you have to Carry some responsibility for another person felt like overwhelming and too daunting. So Initially, I was like, yeah, I don't think I don't think that's What I want to do But then I sat with it and I thought about it and the longer I thought about it and sat with it the more I realized like oh, this is actually exactly what I should do like because I need to I need a cure for my self-obsession and I need a way to like like kind of Put my ego and time out a little bit and make this about something more important than me and my little whatever You know and I was like God doesn't give you anything you can't handle and this opportunity like is like this is an amazing Opportunity like so I'm like, yeah, I want to do this. All right, can I tell you without without like knowing what I was getting involved in? And let me just finish my thought. Oh, go ahead And I got to tell you Cedric Yesterday was one of the best days of my whole life. It was an absolute, unforgettable, peak experience to be there for you, to experience the greatest city on Earth on its greatest day, and to feel all the love from that crowd and travel that 26.2 miles and just make it to the finish line with you, for you. It was just incredible, man. It was a real honor. And getting to know you and kind of surfing off of your inspirational vibe was really a real gift. And you gave your gift to so many people out on that course yesterday. And it was just really beautiful to see that. And so I just wanted to thank you for that experience and thank Joe for recruiting me and enlisting me into it. Man, that meant more than you can even understand, bro. I needed to hear that. And I thank you for saying it like that. I don't wanna run over what you just said by me saying anything else. That needs its own space to breathe. So I thank you for saying that in the way that you just said it. You're welcome. And maybe we can end this with leaving the audience with something to chew on. Obviously, what you experienced is not something that most people are gonna have to go through. We all have our New York City Marathon. We all have our IED moments. We all have our Everest to climb in our own unique set of circumstances. How do you distill down from your set of experiences something that the viewer or the listener can take away? What is the message that you're trying to communicate through your life and through your engagement with these difficult physical challenges? I would definitely start with put God first in your life. Whatever you pray to, whoever you pray to. For me, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. But for me, I know that there's people that believe in so many other different things, but have a relationship with your creator first. Number two, be able to embrace the tough days. And I know we all say that the same, but golly, we're all looking for shortcuts in life. We all are looking for hacks. But one of the greatest hacks is sitting right in front of us, and it's called difficult moments, difficult days. And I know this is gonna sound so contrary to popular opinion, but difficult moments in life is a life hack. If you can take unfortunate circumstances and see the engineering into you becoming better or it creating an opportunity. How many millionaires have been created because we had unfortunate circumstances in COVID? People had to quit careers and change and pivot, and it became something that they grew out of. Life is a series of that happening again and again and again. But what we do is we take those unfortunate circumstances and we chalk it up and we put it in this pile over here. Ah, that sucks. Truth is that belongs over here in this pile. That was your come up. That was your fast pass to get to the front of the line. I need you to stop taking the tough days and complaining about them and look at them differently and put them into, okay, that happened for me. Not to me, that happened for me. I can actually take this circumstance and I can engineer the outcome of that circumstance so that it could help me, but more importantly, so it can help us. That's your way out. That's your way up. Find a way to bless somebody else. Everything that we did in the race yesterday is what I asked humanity to do. When you are struggling on your mile 22, find somebody that is struggling too. Give them all you got. Encourage them, put your arms around them. If they keep running or not, do your part. Give to that person that's hurting, whether you can give resources. Most of all, just give from your heart to the people that are struggling, especially when you're struggling. Make a friend. Along this journey, it's so easy for us to isolate ourselves and we could have done that yesterday. There's so many opportunities to make friends. Like, I looked on my Instagram today and it's so many people that was just like, yo, you, incredible, this is incredible. Sure enough, throughout the whole year, there's people that are coming up because of what we did on a race day in Chicago somewhere. And that love reverberates. Make a friend along this race. Find a moment to push it and give it all you got. Find some moments to where you need to reserve and save some energy up. Don't hit the gas too soon before you get to your goal. We were at places where we probably hit the gas too soon because I was feeling good and we're so close to grabbing this success, this moment. We could get there, hit the gas too soon. So make sure you're paying attention to the resources and energy that you do have and don't squander them. Make sure you're tactical patience. We could have taken off on the Verrazano Bridge. We didn't, we walked up it. We were on the Verrazano Bridge. The race had just started. We're like one and a half miles into it. Yes, we are. As far back as I could see in the rear view, I couldn't see a single person. Nobody. And I looked in front of us, not a single person. And I was like, Cedric. What are we doing? Cedric, like, what are we doing here? We're having the unique experience of, apparently 60,000 people are running this marathon, but I can't see a single one of them. A single one. You go. Tactical patience. Well, we gonna reel all them dudes in. I said, Rich, bro, we about to reel all of them dudes in. I got a fishing line right here. Here they come, baby. I'm reeling them in right now. And hey, sure enough, all of those people that were ahead of us, we passed a lot of them, man. Some people we never caught. But in those moments, I knew that, man, it's not about me passing them or them passing me. It's about me settling in and finding the dude in here to fight all day today. Yeah. I'm a big believer in negative splitting life. Bro, if we had a negative split yesterday, we had positive split yesterday. Yeah, I don't think so. We had positive split yesterday. I don't think we got there, but. But I looked at every mile and I was like, oh, okay, it kind of told the story of the day. I looked at this mile and I looked at that mile. I looked at this pace and I looked at this heart rate. And I was like, okay, it kind of tells a story of where I was and what I was doing and what we were doing as a team. I was like, okay, the next race I can kind of gauge what I could do better. I could kind of gauge what I need to sustain. But that was yesterday and it was a gift, man. It was a gift and it was only for November 2nd. Today's November 2nd, but I want to say this. It's so funny that you've been asking about my dad. Today would have been his 75th birthday, I think. Wow. It's so odd, November 2nd. It's so odd that it's the second. Yeah, it was his birthday, man. Wow. And I was wondering why. Where are these questions of my dad coming from? It's pretty odd, man. But hey, I just want to thank you. I hope that the lessons that were learned yesterday, I just want to share these marathon lessons for people throughout the world. It's so much that you can learn in a race or in an endurance journey that are so good for life. God, life is a race, yes. But the lessons that you learn on a marathon course or for you an ultra marathon course or a super long swim, these are the same lessons that work in life, man. You got to make a friend. You got to use tactical patience. There's going to be times where the weather is hot, it's cold. There's going to be people that trip you up, not because they're trying to be in the swim, in the triathlon swim. They're going to be people that kick me. They don't know that I don't have legs, but you got to be able to roll with the punches. No pun intended, but you got to be able to roll with them and keep moving, right? Yeah, you're going to get kicked, you're going to get punched. It's like a bar fight in there, but you just got to keep swimming. Man, hey, one of these days, I'm going to hold you to this. Me and Joe are trying to get to Cape Town. Trying to get to Cape Town, but the bibs are really, really thin. It'd be great, it'd be great. And we could run it all back in Cape Town, maybe this year, maybe next year, whenever. But it'd be great for us to put this back together in Cape Town. I would love it. And my next Ironman, I need, I know my buddy Jim Mellon, who's listening to this podcast. He loves you, he met you yesterday. He was my swimming guide for my full Ironman. Yeah, I remember that guy. He, that dude loves you, him and his team, Sarah and all those guys, they love you. But I would love for you to be out on my next full Ironman. It doesn't matter, you don't have to guide me through the whole thing, but on one of the three parts, it'd be great. All right, well, I'll put that in my pipe and smoke it. In the meantime, I raise a toast to you, my friend. I will drink to your message in my go-brewing NA beer. You better believe it. Cheers. For all of the people out here who have enjoyed, have been regaled, inspired, and educated by Cedric's message, I think you know that this guy's an unbelievable public speaker. So if you're looking for somebody to come to your event or your corporation, I think you just found your guy. So for those people, where do they go to learn more about you? CedricKingspeaks.com and all social media channels, Instagram. You're at Cedric King MSG, I think, right? Cedric King MSG is my social media handle, but Cedric King Speaks is my website. Right on. I see a Mr. Joe Jura. Oh, did Joe do your website? You better believe he did. And guess when he did it? Did he do it in the middle of running a marathon? Close, close, close. He did it right, we just did Sydney. We just did Sydney a month, two months ago, and he did it while we were getting ready to do Sydney. All right. So yeah, that dude right there, Joe Jura go-brewing. So Joe, if I join you guys on another one of these, will you redo my website? 100%. Okay. I love you, buddy. That was such a treat. You're the man.