Carb Cycling for Faster, Better Fat Loss Results | Mind Pump 2986

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And for Facebook, we have James Horton. Both of you are winners. Send a name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpedia.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpumpedia.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, we're going to talk about carb cycling. This is a technique bodybuilders have used for decades to get better results. You want to get lean, you want to keep your muscle, you want better workouts, this just may be the trick. Let's go. We're gonna talk about carb cycling. Oh, you know, you know, in the, of course, it's a bit of an overgeneralization, but at least in the circle that I hung around with in the competitive world, nobody counts calories. They all it's it's they just follow macro breakdowns, protein, and primarily protein and carbohydrate carbs is what they play with. And they and they just, I remember that was a bit of a transition for me, like when I'd ask people about, you know, dieting strategy, they're getting ready. And I'm like, Oh, where are you keeping your calories? They're like, Oh, I don't know. I'm like, huh? What do you mean? You don't know you're counting? Like you're going in a cut, you're doing a bolt like, no, I just I just manipulate carbohydrates. And they almost every and everybody has kind of different cycling strategies. And obviously, depending on the size of the competitor, you know, a low day of carbohydrates from for one person could be 150 grams for another person can be 50 grams, right? And so that all does change, which is also changing calories, right? But most all, if not all, at least in my experience, nobody talked about the calories, they just talked about the carbohydrates. That's old school body for you. Yeah, yeah. So here's what's interesting. Here's what's just for people listening. One of the reasons why carb cycling exists, because there's a few reasons. But one of the reasons is carbohydrates are the easiest to manipulate of the three macro nutrients for a couple reasons. So all foods are made up of three macro nutrients. So there's micronutrients, which like vitamins, minerals and stuff like that. And the macronutrients are the proteins, fats and carbs. And if you're cutting your calories, like what Adam is discussing, let's say you're trying to get leaner. So you want to reduce your caloric intake, which you are going to have to do if you're trying to lose weight. There's three ways to do that. You can either cut your fat intake down, you can cut your protein intake down, or you can cut your carbohydrates down. All three of them contain calories. Fat contains the most calories per gram. Proteins and carbs about the same. And so you can cut any of them or all of them or one of them to reduce your carbohydrates. Here's one of the reasons why carb carbs are such a great or easy macronutrient to manipulate. Of the three macronutrients, it's the only one that's not necessary. Yeah. Okay. So what I mean by that is protein and there's a certain amount of protein that is essential. Will be detrimental. The other two. The other two, if you're too low, it becomes detrimental. It becomes, you could die. So to take it to the extreme. So there's a certain amount of protein that is essential. There's a certain amount of fat that is essential. Your body needs a certain amount. There are what are known as essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. In other words, to make it just to paint the picture in an extreme way, you could eat 10,000 calories a day, but if you're not eating enough protein, you'll starve your body. You can eat 10,000 calories a day, not even a fat and your starve your body. You could eat zero carbohydrates for the rest of your life and you won't starve your body. Now that doesn't mean it's ideal. I also want to be clear. I'm not saying like no carbs is an ideal way to eat. It's just an easy macronutrient to, to play with because I'm not worried about essential fat. A lot of people like to cut fat, especially when we came up in the fitness industry in the nineties, fat was a macronutrient. People loved to cut. It was demonized. Like you go too low on fat. You feel like garbage and your body doesn't function. I had, yeah, I had, I'd have clients losing their hair and their nails would get met. The hormones would be off and it was just like their fat intake was too low. They were eating 30 grams of fat a day and I had to double or triple it to get them to feel better. So cutting calories from carbs is just, uh, uh, I guess for lack of better terms, safer and easier way to cut calories. Yeah. I think it's important. We talk more about what happens more realistically. You painted the picture of the extreme of no fat and no protein, but that's not what happens, you know, most of the time, right? Like what happens a lot of times is people just reduce calories and it's easy to reduce a lot of calories through fat and they do that and they don't, uh, don't realize that and proteins already hard to get. And so they typically eat low protein. And so let's talk about what happens when, um, maybe you're not in like deathly low, but you're low fats and you're low protein. One, uh, if you're not getting enough protein, the signs that we would see as coaches, uh, recovery, um, you know, strength going, so strength going down, muscle loss, muscle loss, not getting, not, not seeing any sort of strength gains and pains. Cause you're not recovering. Yeah, exactly. They feel like they're sore for days longer, uh, than usual. That's what happens when someone cuts their calories in their, and their protein is real fat. You've alluded to some of the ones that I would see with that soup. This was super common when I was a young trainer. Cause again, we were coming out of that, you know, the nineties when it was popular to do low fat. And so almost all of my female clients that I trained, I had to bump their fats and it took me a long time actually to realize that as a young trainer, I didn't know, I didn't know any better, uh, that this was causing a lot of issues, but I'd have a lot of female clients that were so low that hair was falling out skin. Uh, they weren't seeing results. If your hormone profiles off, right? So if your hormones are all out of balance, really hard to build muscle, really hard to lose body fat. And I remember when I would bump their fats, giving them more calories and all of a sudden we'd see fat loss, you know, or all of a sudden they start building muscle and feel a difference in energy. And I thought, oh, that's crazy. And so, you know, so I think the average person that, you know, isn't pushing it to crazy extremes where they're going no fat or no protein, uh, are suffering from some of those types of signs from being low and cycling carbohydrates avoids all that you can still build muscle and retain muscle really well. If, if carbohydrates, like you said, are zero, um, your hormone, you can keep your hormones still really good. So long as your calories are in a sufficient place, cause you, you could go so low a calorie that even that could, even that, well, you'd see it to an athletic community as we, you know, carb cyclones mainly just for energy management. And so you would, you would deplete and then you would, uh, refeed, you know, going up into your like big event. And so now it's like, I'm have this flood of energy and you try and time it out well, but it wasn't as systematic as bodybuilding, which surprised me as well. Like the, they didn't account for the calories. I remember trying to figure that out with like meal planning and stuff with some clients. And it was like, they would actually just take scoops of rice and like, you'd get a high scoop day and you get a low scoop day. And it was like, that's exactly what it looked like for them. And myself, like you have became, it just, it was easy. Right. So high carb days, you got full cups of rice, uh, in every six, all six meals. Right. So that's a lot of carbohydrates right there. Uh, and then moderate days you got half cups of rice. And then my really low days, it was like no rice. It was all vegetables, you know, vegetables were your only real source of carbohydrates, which are really low. So that would end up being like a 50 to 75 gram day of carbohydrates all through vegetables, none through starches. And, and then you would cycle like that. Great results by the way, doing this. I love this. Oh no, I know. And we're going to, we're going to talk about why, uh, a lot of reasons why bodybuilders have done this and even athletes. So, you know, Justin said something I think is really important to understand is that cutting your carbs is an easy way to cut calories, but it doesn't come without its own side effects. Now the side effects typically are not, you know, terrible, like going too low protein, a little fat, but they can make your workouts suck. Yeah. This is just the fact. So, and the data on this is very clear. And I was like the low carb warriors at debate that you can totally perform well, whatever. There's always, first off, there's always exceptions to the rule. There are certain cases, very actually quite rare where somebody will go low carb and feel better. This has a lot to do with, uh, autoimmune issues, oftentimes issues, gut issues, stuff like that. But generally speaking across the board, low carbohydrate diets result in reduced athletic performance. You're not as strong. You're not going to have as much power. Stamina largely is affected in some cases, not affected, like really low steady state endurance can be okay with no carbs. Uh, but other types of endurance just get hammered. And then for the, you know, bodybuilders are people who like to work out and lift weights. Like the workouts just don't feel good. You're not as strong and you don't get good pumps. It's like, you're not even connected to the weights. That's what it feels like. Sometimes with a really low carb diet, it's like you're working out and you're like, I'm working out my biceps, but I don't feel like what's going on here. Um, and so it just makes workouts not as fun. And so one of the reasons why carbs cycling exists, uh, for athletes, but also for bodybuilders is to improve, uh, athletic performance or the feel of the workouts. And so I'm going to focus on the feel of the workouts for a second, because improving athletic performance is easy to understand. If you're an athlete, like I got game day coming up or I'm a runner or whatever, like, yeah, I got it. I got to kick butt. Okay. If you work out in the gym and you're not competing in a strength sport, like it doesn't make that big of a difference if you're a little stronger, a little weaker. Uh, but the psychological effect is very huge, powerful. Like when you're dieting and you're cutting your calories and you're in the gym and you're working out and you feel flat, you're not getting a good podgery. Yeah. You start to hate your workouts. And I'm going to tell you this. So just as a coach, just as a trainer, uh, if my clients didn't like their workouts, the there's pretty guaranteed, they're not going to work out at some point. Yeah. So I got to make sure the workouts are somewhat enjoyable and low carb workouts are less enjoyable. Uh, and bodybuilders again, I've noticed this. And so they tend to cycle their carbs for better, uh, experiences in their workouts. And so, so to add to that, um, on the psychology part, uh, not just the way the workout feels, but the psychology around how you look, um, I'm reminded of this as I go through this phase right now of like, and, and part of what kicked back the kind of carb cycling for me was this was I was kind of just reducing calories and through a lot of carbohydrates. And so I was like low carb, I'd say low moderate. I wasn't really cycling yet. At this point. And what made me cycle was I finally, after several weeks of like lower calories, low carbohydrates, I filled my body back up and got a workout. And then it was like, all of a sudden I went, Oh, there's all the work I've been doing. You see the results. Yeah. Like now my muscle bellies are filled up. And I was like, because up until that point, there's this point that you get to, and it's, I call this like awkward stage of getting really lean or getting really fit, uh, because you're low calorie that you kind of don't like the way it looks. You don't even look leaner. You just look smaller. Yeah. Yeah. And so it can really mess with your head when you know, you're being really strict and you're, and you're disciplining yourself and going to bed hungry a lot of nights. And you're like, what is this all for? I look like shit or I don't like my workouts feel terrible. I don't look very good. It doesn't look like I'm making that much progress. So then I have this big refeed day. And I was I was talking to Katrina about it about this and fill back in and then all of a sudden I can see it And and so that actually encouraging is what kicked me back up to cycling It was like I need almost that psychological bump every fourth day or so Because I go through these three days in a row of like oh, I don't like the way it looks and feels But I know what my body's doing and even though as many times. I've done it, and I know what's happening There's still a part of it that can be very demo. That's because just for people listening like what's going on like 70-plus percent of your muscles are fluid Yeah, and water and when you cut your carbs you lose a lot of water water and glycogen and glycogen Most all the muscle and so your muscles are think think of this way They was it take a big juicy steak go dehydrate it on a dehydrator and see what it looks like so it's tiny Understand why this is important to the cutting process to Sal's that so our muscle bellies work as these huge Storage stored energy vessels, too So when we're all filled up and we quote-unquote like the way we look our gas tanks are full of extra gas Outside of what you also consume for fuel and in order to really tap into that bodies Utilizing body fat as its primary source gonna burn that it's got it burn that all up And so you got to get that all out you got to deplete that down so that now the body goes, okay We don't have a bunch of stored energy in the muscles Let's go over and utilize fat as a source of fuel and do that If you are constantly keeping those extra reserve tanks full the body will tap into that many times which is why by the way a lot of times people that are quote-unquote dieting and Not seeing the results is they never get low enough They they're eating a little bit less than what they were before but they're still eating enough that their body is storing some of that in their in their glycogen store right in their muscle bellies and Then and then even though they feel low calorie they're tapping into that. So there's this necessary evil of Getting that depleted so that then the body will then yes, and it's it's a very complex part of process And we're over some of course the heck out of it But anytime in your deficit, even if your carbohydrates are normal, you're gonna feel more flat, but you add on top of that low Carbohydrates because you're like hey, this is a macronutrient. It's easy to cut. I don't want to cut protein So I want to preserve muscle. I want to keep my fats at a certain level because those are essential So I'm gonna cut carbs you're gonna feel even more flat because your calories are low plus you've got no carbohydrates So your glycogen is low and your fluids low and in your bustle and something you work out and you're like what is going on? I just look smaller and softer and this won't mess with you. It's discouraging. And so there's an encouragement encouragement that comes from Carbocycling. So here's something to consider if you're gonna start doing this is to Cycle your your carbs with purpose Cycle like like time them so that it makes sense. So when does it make sense to increase your carbohydrates? Well, there's a few different places I can think about One is around important workouts. Yeah, you know tomorrow I'm gonna do the activity Yeah I'm gonna work out my back and my back is a body part That I really need to focus on or I'm gonna work on my glutes or my legs or my delts and these are the body Parts I need to focus on so you all know who if you're listening You know the areas that you really want to focus on Well make your high carb days The day before on the day of the body part you're gonna train to be encouraging to get that pump to get that performance get That strength so time it for those workouts or time it for your hard workouts Does you have to be a lagging body part? You just know I'm squatting on Wednesday, or I'm dead lifting heavy on Thursday. It's gonna be intense That's the day that I'm gonna want those carbohydrates a couple other times that are good ideas to cycle carbs Like I sometimes cycle carbs when I'm saving the extra calories for when I'm going out my family It even has nothing to do my workouts. It's just hey, I'm gonna eat more calories on Saturday because we're going out to dinner That's gonna be my higher carb day because I'll have that allotment on that day, and then finally here's a great one Bodybuilders do this to get on stage because you look so good. I've used carb cycling to go to the beach I've done it to where I come in lean and flat then I Refeed the day before so when I hit the beach I just look bigger and leaner and you could do this and by the way You know bodybuilders physique competitors bikini competitors when they do photo shoots. This is what they're doing these are all those tricks I had no idea. Yeah, it makes a big difference. Oh, no, it makes a huge difference. So let me share how I'm coaching to that with current both current and Katrina since I'm helping Katrina right now too with this so Our standard cycle is three days of low carb and then a refeed day three days low carb refeed a then we switch And I just talked to three one three three one three one three one Now we'll toggle between a three one or a four one and how I determine that is how their workouts fall So what I've coached to both Katrina and her Corinne is that okay because we have focus areas Katrina is focusing on her But Corinne is lower body also is like her main focus when we have our big lifts our hip thrust days our squad days our deadlift days Let's say you're on You know, it's gonna be you're getting ready to be on day. Like let's say you just did it or whatever And and you and you're on like day two of Of a low day. I'll extend another low day so that they can so they can go They can go for low days because they know that next day after that is gonna be a high you understand I'm saying so like you time that for the workout. So we time it for the workout So I'll let them extend another low day because it's like it's an upper body It's like hey, I know today is supposed to be refeed, but it's upper its upper body. It's our save it for let's save it So let's run another because we know that you can power you can get through an upper body day with low calories both From performance standpoint and for really focusing on that muscle group that we want to so it's like, okay That's an upper body day. And today was taking a refeed a go ahead and do another low carb day and then we'll refeed on the fourth day and so I allow them to toggle that based off of what they're working because the Workout doesn't always perfectly land on the fourth or the on the refeed day And so when it doesn't perfectly land on it already naturally they have that ability to stretch it out I do the same thing for myself. So and what three one four one? Yeah three or four and you know, I like it for me It's also it's like lower body stuff lifts and so and or it could land on an off day So I won't rarely ever refeed on an off day. I want to fuel a workout and so like I just had this yesterday So yesterday should have been a refeed day, but it was also a recovery off day and it's like I don't I don't need any Extra fuel. I'm gonna stay low. I'm gonna stay low today and not refeed and so I'll choose to refeed the next day Yeah, so there's so the classic way to carb cycle is what Adam just said, which is a three Low carb one day refeed or four with a refeed. That's one way to do it I've had I've known people some people to go every other day. Here's what I don't like every other day So I've I have friends and I know people that go low carb higher carb lower carb higher carb and they fluctuate their calories Every other day. I don't necessarily like that because I think you need to feel the effects of getting flat So you can feel the effects of refueling. I think it's a good contrast It's a good experience to see how different your body feels with more or less water In your muscles every other day doesn't tend to do that. You don't get that like that dramatic effect The way I do it as I go Monday through Friday low carb Saturday Sundays high now I time it for two reasons that way one Saturday and Sunday. I'm with my family So this if we're gonna get my parents house, it's probably gonna be on a Saturday or Sunday. My mom makes great pasta that's gonna be a carbohydrate so I'm gonna have it on those days and It sets me up for Monday and Mondays tend to be the workouts that I am rested. I've taken two days off That's the workout that I want to go in Refueled or what the crazy pumps and then Monday through Friday is tipping so I go five So I actually think that is a great so I would this is how I would do this if I wasn't in like Competitive mode right now if like I'm trying to time a date for my birthday get as lean as possible But I think the way like for real life that is a way smarter strategy and how I would coach to that if you were just because Every most people Monday through Friday when there were this is what I found with clients at least in my personal experience is Monday through Friday people are pretty good about disciplining themselves around their eating. They have less they have less temptation to eating out They're normally on a work schedule if they meal prep than they have it's like it's not that hard Friday Saturday Sunday rolls around It's like well, that's normally date night or where the family so structure. Yeah, there's less structure So it makes a lot of sense that this would be the day Those would be the days that you allow the higher calorie higher carbohydrates for a lot like long exactly I'm working all day I mean, yeah, you guys low carbs low calories. No problem. No big deal. Yep Yeah, but sitting with your family everybody's eating pasta this and that you get to be like, sorry I'm eating my pre pre-made meals. That's lame. That sucks, but you're not competing Why am I doing totally and also Thursday, you know Thursdays Fridays if I'm with me the kids all day long It's also easy for me to go low calories. I'm busy. I'm taking the park. I'm taking the whatever We're having a good time. So I do it that way and then it just so happens Mondays I look forward to this workout for two reasons one I rested Saturday Sunday Two days in a row off from working out and then I go in and I get these crazy these crazy pumps when I work out So psychologically, it's really encouraging. All right, let's talk about the best carb sources for carb cycling I think the number one thing to consider with carbohydrates Is digestibility always digestibility. What's the easiest one to digest white rice seems to always be at the top for everybody I've ever worked with I don't think I've ever worked with anybody Except for people with really severe gut issues where white rice was ever an issue Yeah, so white rice is great. Then the second place and this is my favorite white potatoes with salt now, why do I add the salt to it because what I'm looking for is the Pump and the sodium helps with the fluid intake So you give me some white potatoes with a lot of salt those starchy carbs plus the sodium I'm going to the next when I work out after doing a couple days of that. I'm a different human I look like I gained 15 pounds of muscle after a pump and so it's really really encouraging for me So white rice potatoes are my favorites. Yeah, I'd say I have a top five, but I would say this rice is number one and then the next is a distant second third fourth and fifth and the reason why that is is Digestibility and also just ease of prep and tracking. Yeah, because again, I've always got a better rice I've just got a factor that in with with clients you ask them to make red potatoes white potatoes Which are all things I do and I love like now the scale has to get out now you have to kind of figure out what that looks like what it's six ounces to four ounces to eight at what those all look Like and what equals 20 grams or like and so rice like to Justin's point earlier so easy It's like high days of the cup low days. It's a half a cup, you know low even lower days. It's zero It's like it's it's so easy. It's easy to measure with like like a little cup the scooper And so it's like number one for me, but then I love white potatoes red potatoes yellow golden potatoes Sweet potatoes yams. I mean right now Katrina. I are on this kick right now where we even she has this little Slicer that slices the potatoes so they look like french fries. And so we we we bake or we air fry Sweet potato looking french fries and just season with a little bit of salt and it just it feels and there's something about the it's So funny because we were just I was just doing cubes like a month ago But there's something about eating it like a french fry that makes me feel like I'm having a french fry That's it's funny the psychology of that. And so yeah, I like but I have to weigh those things. So that to me they become their second Distant from the white rice because why I will say any carbohydrates can can be used in this way avoid ones that are hard to digest But I'll say this. This is a honorable mention Fruit, yeah is healthy for you tends to not be a great way to carb load for some reason I think it has to do with the volume and the fiber I'm eating fruit like a bolt like if I want 60 grams of carbohydrates from rice or potato. It's pretty easy 60 grams of carbohydrate from fruit is a lot of fruit unless you're juicing it in which case I'm still not a big fan of That it's like a big-ass bowl of fruit and you can do it It's not a problem. And I know people who do this, but for me, it was never the best option Yeah, no, I agree with that though. I will say this so too because I had to really add in a bunch of fruit I what early on I was not I wasn't getting enough vegetables and I wasn't getting enough fruit because my fiber was really low That's where the food fruit is kicks, but and that's where the fruit is really valuable And so and typically berries are the best right now. I have for this chopped up blackberry and Asian pear Huge bowl in the fridge Now last thing I'll say is the data shows that carb cycling does not Enhance fat loss. That's true. That's what the studies show Here's what I'm gonna tell you though and my experience working with people. It does work better It has nothing to do with the science. It has nothing to do with anything magical that's happening the body But people tend to have a better time with it And this is why carb cycling is such an advantage and don't discredit that so you may read studies And be like and be like, oh, well, I'm just gonna follow what the study says. Do not discredit your experience everybody I'm gonna tell you something right now carb cycling feels better for most people and makes your workouts more fun You look forward to the higher carb days Psychologically ability to like you said the weekends and stuff totally totally hundred percent I'm glad you ended on that because I feel like that's there's this has been like kind of the theme of the stuff that I've Been sharing as I've gone through. This is like there's several things and Fasting cardio was another one of those things like we're very aware of the science I know that it's been debunked if all things are controlled Calories are the same fast or fake or but who lives in a controlled way exactly but in practice What I find is it's an incredible strategy for somebody to kick up fat loss when they weren't doing that before I would add This to that list. This is we know that carb cycling isn't doing anything magically with a it's just creating a Calorie reduction on certain days and other days you're at maintenance probably And so there's not this magical thing that's happening but psychologically and in practice It tends to work really well for clients for you guys are saying like some people are like Oh, I could easily go low carb those days And then you have something to look forward to on Friday or whatever day and that really yeah It just it's it works really really well I'm reminded of how well it works and how much I like it right now even though I'm aware of what the science is Alright, so I I was doing a crazy amount of research this morning on alcohols effects on the body Cause for a couple, well, for a couple of reasons, so one, I was having some, we were hanging out with some friends and, uh, we were talking about some of this experience that some people have when they drink. Sometimes this happens to my wife too. Have you guys ever heard the term hang anxiety? It's like hangover, but hang anxiety. No, I haven't heard that term. So this is relatively common. This happens to my wife and it can happen pretty nasty to her. Uh, but when I've talked to other people that like, oh, that kind of happens to me too. So here's what happens. You'll drink, enjoy yourself. Maybe you had a lot, maybe you didn't have a ton, but you had, you know, a couple of drinks or whatever, and then you'll go to bed and you'll have crappy sleep. Everybody talks about that, right? And we know this is pretty clear. The data shows like alcohol, just it doesn't do it. Doesn't do well, but here's an experience. Some people have, they'll go to bed, they'll fall asleep. Okay. They'll wake up in the middle of the night and there's a couple of things that they'll feel. And this is, this is, uh, this is characteristic of what I'm talking about. They'll wake up sweaty, uh, and they'll have a sense of doom or dread or racing thoughts. They'll wake up and just feel bad and think about things. And they're just, it's like, it's anxiety in the middle of the night and they feel like crap. And this is called anxiety. So I did some research on this. Cause this will happen to my wife. She'll wake up in the middle of night if she drinks sometimes. And she's like, man, I'll just think about all these, just negative thoughts basically. So I looked it up. So here's what happens. Alcohol raises, uh, a neurotransmitter or inhibitory neurotransmitter of the brain called GABA. This is what makes you feel chill when you're buzzed and cool and you feel good. One of the things that, that, that it does, uh, and it lowers something called glutamate. Glutamate is this excitatory neurotransmitter. Well, when the alcohol starts to, blood alcohol starts to drop, which happens around 2 AM, right? You go to bed, you're kind of buzzed, you fell asleep. If you drink too much, maybe not, but let's say you just had enough. You're okay. You fell asleep. Then the blood sugar shoots. Then the, the, the, the blood alcohol drops. Your body rebounds by dropping GABA and boosting glutamate. So then you wake up anxious, you wake up. Hot, sweaty, feeling like crap, the sense of dread, the sense of impending doom, like what's going on. And that's, what's happening. It's a rebound effect of neurotransmitters. Uh, that's occurring in the brain. I've definitely had that. I know for sure. Yeah. Well, the, um, the raisin in body temperature alone is something that I've noticed every time I've had drinks before bed. And it's, it's definitely like, I didn't know if that had to do with, you know, something with the metabolism and yeah, definitely the, um, you know, the spike in blood sugar of some sort. You have the bad thoughts too, where you wake up and you say, uh, some, I mean, it depends. Yeah. Sometimes I'll have that kind of dread. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, I think you start thinking about it and dude, yeah. You just, you think about the rest of your day is going to suck. Totally. So what it is, is it's, uh, it's your physiology driving your psychology. So you've got these neurotransmitters that are off, you got this rebound effect. And because you feel like crap, you think about something, whatever you're thinking about, which could be a stressful thing. Like, oh man, that thing I got to do feels way worse. Yeah. And so then you can get stuck in this little zone. It affects your circadian rhythms too, doesn't it? Oh yeah. Big time. Is there, is there a relationship to acetaldehyde with that too? No. So that's the other one. So acetaldehyde, uh, which you're, you know, when you drink alcohol, acetaldehyde is part of the metabolic system or the metabolism of it. And your liver breaks it down pretty damn well, but some of it's released in your gut. Acetaldehyde, uh, is not good for you. And that's the inflammation, the toxic feeling, I feel like garbage. I feel like crap. So, uh, this is why, uh, so Zbiotics is a company we work with. This is why people swear by Zbiotics. Yeah. Now Zbiotics is, so for people listening, like, well, pretty wild. Is that just like herbs or is that just like, you know, uh, electrolytes? No, no, no. Zbiotics is an actual probiotic, but what they did is they modified, so this is the only company that does this. So this is their patent pending bacteria. They own the patent for the, they've created bacteria that produce an enzyme. That's what this bacteria does. So you drink Zbiotics, then you drink, hang out with your friends. You, this bacteria is releasing this enzyme in the gut that breaks down acetaldehyde into, uh, these kind of, um, you know, uh, harmless, uh, byproducts. And so this is why people are like, oh my God, I, when I have Zbiotics, I feel way better from, from that. Amazing. And it's the breaking down the acetaldehyde. A hundred percent. I don't know anybody who's like taken it and, you know, had a bad experience or like. Feel way better. Yeah. Way better. And even like, I think I had told this a long time ago, but I have a friend who's like an actual rockstar and was like, you know, put it to the test even beyond alcohol and was like, no, I felt like way better than I should have. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when we did that one experiment, when it went kind of out of hand, yeah, we went hard. Uh, and I first, that was the drunkest, I haven't been that drunk since. And before that, I think the, I don't think I ever got that drunk except for maybe in my twenties. I for sure was like, there's no way we're going to be able to work. No way. He just said he just rewatched that. I did. I'm actually putting together a photo book for the first 10 years of the company. And I didn't have any actual photos of that, but I did have the Instagram posts. I've done some screenshots and hopefully they print well, but I watched that whole video. That was a little unhinged. I think Justin, you ended up with what? 11 shots. Oh my God. Something crazy. Like we all had to get rides home. That's true. Home. We were just, Oh my God. You know what the problem was? The drinking game we thought was going to be too slow. So we changed the rules faster. Yeah. Well, I think my pre just to be like, Oh, this is going to take forever. So I don't want to film here. You want to be here all day. We were just like, let's speed this up. Yeah, dude. My family, especially this time of year, I go through them like crazy. Cause all my family, you know, that's interesting. I, do you think it, do you know the, um, the buying habits of the average consumer is this alcohol ramp up this past holiday? Yeah. For like November, December, end of the new year, it has to be, I don't know. Like I'm curious if that would be the case. And I wonder if Z biotic feels that like, do they see a huge, are they like this back half of their four, they do really good. By the way, do you know, I've seen them sold at BevMo and I've seen a couple of bars. They're starting to finally get into the bars. And so I was, I was like, do they should be in every bar? Yeah. They increase the alcohol sales and consumption increased significantly. Oh, wow. They jumped by 40%. Holy cow. Wow. In December. Well, two reasons. One, you're celebrating a family, two, you're sad. Some people get really sad. And then three years around the corner, which is one of the, probably the biggest cold outside. Yeah. Wow. Wow. I figured they would go up. I didn't realize that. I want, so I wonder if Z biotics, he's a huge surge in Q4. Probably. That would make sense. I would imagine. It'd be weird if it didn't with that. Dude, uh, talking about experiments I did is, uh, you know, you guys know how I've been breaking my phone recently. Oh, you told us, yeah, you're going brick. So there's this, so basically, so I have this device, it's called brick. There's no affiliation. So they get a free commercial, but basically you tap your phone on it and then whatever you decide to shut off on your phone gets shut off. And then the only way to shut it back on or turn things back on is you have to go back to the device and tap your phone manually. Yeah. So I'll break my phone, leave my phone and it, excuse me, the brick in another room and then, you know, it's pretty. So I have like a barrier. I have to go walk over and I'm breaking time. So yesterday's the first day I did it all day. I used no text, no social media, nothing. Yeah. The only thing that, uh, is that someone could call if they needed me, they call me. That's why I texted you guys. If you need me, call me. Otherwise I won't get a text. Yeah, bro, the attachment we have to our phones, I can't speak for everybody. For me, the attachment I have to my phone is purely psychological. It's baloney. Yeah. Halfway through the day. Didn't care. Yeah. Could care less. Yeah. In the beginning of the day, I could find myself like, that's why I get so angry about it because I did the same thing and dude, I actually took my kids fishing and you're out there and they're like, their phones are nowhere to be found. Their friend's phone's nowhere to be found. They're just super busy, you know, out there in nature, figuring it out. Although I'll be honest, like taking a bunch of teenagers who've never like really fished before, it was like, I didn't get the fish. I was like re-rigging stuff like the whole time I had to like totally reframe this whole experience is like, I'm trying to like usher like this enjoyment, you know, for them to like focus on just fishing and being in nature. And I'm like, I'm just like trying to like stoke this. And that was like my goal. So you didn't have your phone at all? I didn't have my phone. And then the whole rest of the day as a result of that, just didn't even look at it. Bro. I, in the beginning of the day, I was very conscious of this. I was like, I wanted to check my phone. I want to see what's going on. I didn't halfway through the day, forgot all about it. By the end of the day, I'm like, do I even want to check? I don't even care. Checked nothing. I'm like, wow. I missed out on nothing. I wasn't on social media. I don't care. Of course I see a text, you know, come through, you know, from earlier in the day about, did you see what's going on? Whatever. Did you see the thing that happened? And I'm like, no, I didn't. And it's supposed to be angry right now. What's happening? And it's better, dude. I can care less. Yeah. So I'm going to try more days like this, where I just, yeah. Cause look, you need to get ahold of me. Just call me. If somebody needs to get ahold of me, just call me. I don't need everything. Yeah. Just turn it off. Remember when we wanted to start that trend a couple of years ago? I wish you would. Yeah. I wish we would have, it's not too late. We could talk, we could talk about how we'd launch it or do it, but we talked about posting like once a week, a black square on our, uh, on our Instagram and everything's off with all, all social goes down, all of our phones go down and see if we could start a trend where everybody gets off being online for a single day and see if that would take off at all. I mean, I experienced this just recently. I remember I told you guys when I went on my drive for three days, I mean, three days to be offline was like, and it's just like, it reminds me, it reminds me of fasting, which it's fasting from your technology and phone. It's the beginning. It seems hard. And then all of a sudden by day two, it's like, you don't even think about it. It's nothing about your food, your food experience of a 72 hour fast, same thing. It's like, if you feel like, oh my God, it's gonna be so hard after you miss your first meal, which by the way, food's necessary. Right, right. Exactly. Like exactly. So it's like, it's even more than that because it's like, you really don't, you're not hungry, you know, at all. It's like you get, you go a while and you realize like, oh, it's not as necessary as I thought it was. Oh, it's not that big of a deal at all. And so no, it's, it was really refreshing, uh, to string three days in a row of just being completely disconnected. I'm doing it on Sundays for now. So Sabbath. So I'm going to practice all day on Sundays. And I think what I'm going to do is when I come to work, I may do it as well. Uh, and then, cause my wife needs me, she'll just call me and just keep it up. This is probably the hardest time for me. I would admit when I'm home and I'm doing stuff like that, it's not hard for me at all. Um, and Katrina and I are pretty good about holding each other accountable. My son's really good about holding us accountable. God, when my kid tells me it breaks my heart. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a big deal. That's a big deal for me. Yeah. And I've given him permission like that. You ever see daddy and I'll tell him and like, so my discipline or Katrina's we've agreed is like, Hey, obviously we run a business that has a lot of moving parts a lot, right? Like there's, you never know what we're doing, um, on what day and you can't control everything. Right. I mean, there's, we were in the middle of a new lease agreement, for example. And it's like, I gotta be talking to people on a normally off day, you know? So, but what we agree is this like, Hey, you go, go to the office or go the other room out of the family room, like we're not all out. So we don't, so he doesn't see us or like that. So we're, we're, we're pretty good about that, dude. So you sent me a link, uh, maybe three or four days ago about how they're passing legislation to, uh, basically create regulatory, uh, pathways for peptides. So, uh, do the, the peptide space is already exploded, but it's about to blow the heck up because the administration is creating right now. Pathways for companies to be able to do this legally through doctor prescription, the whole deal. And as soon as the typical doctor gets a hold of peptides, sees the benefit of them, whatever, it's over. Do you think we're going to see GPs prescribing it? You do. I do. Interesting. I think it's going to, you know why the, they work so well, the money is there, uh, and people are going to demand it. I mean, insulin is a peptide, right? Yes. And so that's obviously widely prescribed with GPs. And they're warming up to peptides with the GLPs. Yeah. They're all prescribing the heck out of terzapatide. I'm sure that was the introduction. But now BPC, KPV, C-max, like MOTC. They're creating a pathway for this to happen, which also, by the way, means that, and they've already, they're sending letters and doing stuff. They're going to make it harder and almost impossible for these gray market companies to sell. I would, I would imagine they're going to pursue that a lot more aggressively, you know, any of the gray market companies. Yeah. What is it, Eli Lilly? Like if, I mean, are they, they're out there like after a lot of the compound functions. You know, I wonder though, if this is going to follow the same path as medical marijuana did. So I remember being right in the thick of all this, and I remember very similar type of like unfolding. And I remember when it was just like, oh my God, they're going to let like regular, like not even a dispensary anymore. It's like stores can have it in certain states that this is just going to destroy the black market. And it didn't happen. Um, because if they still put so much red tape around it and the, and there's so many, there's still a lot of regulation and it's got to go through all this and the prices stay really high. It'll still stay market. So I think the black market will exist. The gray market is what's going to get smashed because right now you could go online, find some research chemical company and order it. Yeah. That's going to get crushed because that's easy to capture. That's easy to crush. Black market. Yeah, sure. You can still buy some, you know, you can buy your, your steroids and your, and your pet for the guy at the gym, you know, good luck to you, you know, but the gray market is what's going to get killed. That's where they're going to go after. Yeah. But I think that what it'll be interesting is to see how much the, the cause, okay. Does the average consumer who already buys these things on the gray market get pushed to the legalized market or do they get pushed to the black market? I would argue most of them get pushed to the black market. I think most of them will go, will go legit because I disagree. I think most of the consumers from the gray market are not like these bodybuilder types. They're not. But they're very price driven they are but where are they gonna go dude, right? They're gonna go to the guy in the gym No Buy it at the back of us. You really think it's like all the people, you know, like friends of yours No, i'm not talking about like right right bodybuilding already doing that. Yeah a lot a lot of the the gray market people are are like already seeking out people to They will just go to friends a lot of them already go to a friend right now Who's their trusted source who gets it? But where are their friends getting it from sure? So So what you know, so what it'll what it'll look like in my opinion, they're gonna have to go through a drug dealer Yes, it will and i'm willing to bet you a lot of money on it What it'll look like is you think they'll be? Yes, a hundred percent gonna go buy it from a drug dealer. Well, they already technically are no They're buying it from a gray market. No, they're not. They're not buying it online from a gray market They're buying it from a friend who is doing all the sourcing for them Who they trust The friends we're talking about that you and I are talking about right now are too lazy to go online And search the best gray marketplaces. Anyways, they'd rather go get it from their buddy They work out with who has said this is the best. They're the best pharmacy I'm getting it from and I can get it to you for 50 bucks like mrs. Johnson. Yes black market. Yes, dude 100 if the only way right look if they make the price is so ridiculous so crazy and they will So what you'll see is this right now the gray market is making a ton of money that will shrink Because they're able to sell it at almost the exact same price as what the regulated market is Which is astronomical compared to what they're getting the gray market prices for but when it goes More full legal like you're saying it will bring those prices down a little bit not a lot But a little bit right and then they'll have to compress their margins and so but not by a lot But it's they'll still have enough that they'll be able to undercut the the legal way by a ton And so I and i'm willing to bet 80 Of the people that are on the gray market right now will go to the black market and not go to so doug Look this up for me because there is still a black market for marijuana, but it's nowhere near what I love that The internet tries to calculate how much black market. I know I just want to see These are the people that are the black market that report their income I just want to see how they get these how do you even get into the dark web? How much how much has the legalization of marijuana affected the black market just put that in there because here's what I know I don't know anybody who smokes weed who buys weed from the black market anymore So I know anybody so i'm the opposite of you then I don't know anybody that buys from a dispensary because it's not It's different people. It's the It in in in the in the cannabis world It's the crappier more expensive weed the best stuff stays on the black market. It has not eliminated, but I want to see How much it's we don't there's no way for them to know. Is there? What what it has done since i'm still but you're right What it has done is this So, uh, and i'll give you like literally up-to-date numbers Well over 60 percent of consumed marijuana in california is black market But that's more than half dog. Yeah, but that used to be a hundred. Hey, by the way, that's what's reported Okay, so listen, let me tell you from from somebody who's very connected to all of that stuff the government messes So what it did was this so back when I was involved this guy how long ago was that 10 plus years now? It's been a long time, right? So when I was involved in it the most uh premium Marijuana like a bag of it right a pound of it would run you 3,500 to four thousand dollars that The same level of stuff. In fact, i'd argue it's even better now because the science has evolved and more growers are better numbers back Yeah 3,500 on the black market or in the dispensary didn't matter they were all Around that that right now I can pick up for like 1,200 bucks in the black market Yeah, some if you're connected to the farm if you go direct to the farmer 800 bucks For that that was $3,500. Yeah, so that's so what it's done is the black market has had their margins. It's very hard now competing Yeah, very hard for for black market drug dealers and make a lot of like the money they were making back in the days but they still are they're still out competing the the legit market because the legit market has a Lesser product for more money now in the peptide world You'll get a better product but the black market people will argue it's just as good or the same thing in its way You know where I you know where I was totally wrong on all of this uh It was back when we were seeing all this start to happen with the like Medical marijuana and then they're going to legalize it per state or whatever. I thought That the legalization of cannabis would reduce overall cannabis usage. Yeah, I thought Less people will use cannabis because part of the draw is the taboo and the whatever The that's not true at all. I was totally wrong It's not but I still I still don't think that The jury is out on that like it'd be interesting to see like I don't know the laws Like in germany and so that when they when the alcohol was like was it always set that low? So I think that we'll go through a generation Or at least half of a generation of a spike in a run and then I think it will settle down I think it still is novel. There's still there's still I still know, uh, 60 year olds That grew up in a time when marijuana was very illegal that are like open to trying it now because it's legal so of course that number would go up, but after a generation of like Everybody can get weed. It ain't a big deal. I think we will see that Here's why I don't this is why I disagree because we saw alcohol, uh through prohibition then through legalization more people drink alcohol now But there's always ups and downs Here's why I disagree though. What I didn't account for was the power of american marketing and consumerism and just the What what our markets do? They're so powerful is they create narratives. They change beliefs around things. They do this very very well And so because marijuana the more legal it gets The more you're going to see them promote it as this thing that everybody can use All these it's just just like look I used to be like hey, you know, uh consenting adults want to pay for Sex then let them do it. I don't I don't see why it should be illegal This was a very libertarian approach. Yeah now i'm like no I don't think it's a good idea because you know what happened if we legalized it It would take 10 years before it was this accepted way of being because our markets are so damn powerful I think it's and we're so easily manipulated it's even more nefarious now for me to look at it because it's I I see it hitting the the youth the underage market so much more effectively now because of the um, you know the the way that it's like With the baby, it's easy for them to conceal. It's easy for them to take from their parents It's easy for them, you know to steal it like and then consume it. It's like they don't have to like All the things are packing the bowl like rolling like they don't have to do any of that stuff They just hit this little vape and it's everywhere well I definitely think it's it's playing a massive role in what you talked about these stats earlier about how We've seen such a decline in young people drinking. I think a lot are smoking instead So I think I think uh, you know getting high in high school and maybe even middle school has become far more popular than getting drunk And so and I don't know if that's I don't know if that's a better or worse thing um per se But I do think again just like just like we saw How are how we're seeing alcohol has fallen out of favor with these younger kids I think it'll make its comeback and I think weed will fall off. I don't think it'll fall off completely. I think uh, Whatever will remain like it'll it's a drug. It'll be up there. I think what we're gonna see in the future Honestly, I was just talking with my friend about this Uh with ai because ai biotech companies right now are using ai to come up with drugs. Do you guys know this? Oh, wow, they're they're the the ai Understands pathways. Yeah, they can get they get tested a million times within its own. So just combines Yeah, it simulates drugs and it goes through ten thousand combinations Spits out three that have 80 something percent chance of working now the pharma company can look at the three pick one and then boom I think we're gonna reach a point where you get designer drugs. Yeah, forget all the drugs we know about People are gonna be able to make their own designer drugs I don't disagree because ai is going to show them what to do and it's going to know their own body nailed that again Minority report I swear. Yeah. Yeah Like some weird drug he was taking that was euphoric And then he would just sit so I I agree with that way more and I think that'll actually have a decline and And we because of that just that alone because that will become it'll be novel. It'll be novel. It'll be new I mean, I mean we're so predictable as humans like we were so predictable We repeat so many behaviors and cycles that It's really not that different than what it was thousands of years ago The drugs look a little bit different the way they do it looks a little bit different, but the human behavior aspect of it So I think what you're speaking to right now is we are in the the peak Marijuana phase right now because it's went from being completely Bad banned and illegal to almost fully legal everywhere. And so yeah, everyone's having a heyday on it And then after a while, they'll be like, okay, it's not that cool The new novel minority report thing will come out and then no one will care about we okay So I uh, i'm going to change topics here. I was also doing some reading on body temperature And sleep and how big of a role body temperature or the right temperature plays And the quality of your sleep. So here's some of the stuff that happens. This is general, but there are individual variances This is generally what happens when uh, you sleep or when you're going to sleep So in the evening your core temperature peaks in the late afternoon early evening, then it falls in the hours before bed So before bed when your body's predicting it's time to go to bed soon Your body temperature naturally drops interesting after you fall asleep. There's an additional sleep related decrease Beyond just lying still so overall your core temperature falls about 0.5 to 1 degree Celsius or 1 to 2 degrees fahrenheit from daytime levels The lowest point is in the second half of the night. This is when it's the your body goes down the most Is this when we're in ramp? I believe let me see Ram, uh slow wave and deep and ram sleep tends to be associated with fuller cooling rem Can show brief modest rises or more variable thermoregulation. So it's actually more variable Uh, so then in the morning your temperature starts to climb towards the morning which aligns with waking with your wake up So this is your body's natural. That's so cool. So here's what's cool about this Everybody's a little different with this Um, and by the way, uh, this is why the data shows like a really cool room and cool bed is like the best thing I have to personally. Yeah, it's the best thing but there's a variance there what may be cool for you for the person next to you or Their body temperature fluctuates a little differently than yours does and then hormones play a role menopause and Paramenopause listen you we know this we train lots of women in middle age That was most of our clients when we were trainers But if you're listening right now and you're menopause, you know exactly what happens you go to bed And then you wake up and you're sweating and you can't get your body temperature, right? And that totally messes up your sleep and that's all due to hormones so this is why I think the future and you know, uh eight sleep is like on they are The forefront they are the forefront. Why are they forefront? There's a lot of devices that cool your bed now Although eight sleeps the best there's lots of devices that go on your bed and cool it only eight sleep Monitors your sleep and then uses their own ai To adjust it on the fly. Yeah, so your sleep gets perfect all night long Based on your body temperature and your movement and it knows when to cool when to warm, you know, it's time to wake up Let's warm you up time to go. Let's cool it down. Here's your ram your rems a little bit off We're going to do this with the temperature and it just adjusts to you I feel like I kick so much. I feel like anybody who has a partner that they sleep with Has to know how what you alluded to a variance. It's a massive My wife and I are nowhere opposite spectrum Yeah, nowhere near the same the way our temperature is regulated. And so I sleep on the cover She sleeps under the covers. Yeah, that's how different it is. So I mean the yeah that it's way different so trying to manage that individually in a bed is and with the room temperature because if it was up to me the house would be down to 65 and It's like the one of my favorite parts about eight sleep is I've told you guys I've been able to just keep our house was 72 degrees upstairs Which would never work for me if it was if I did not have the eight sleep cooling me and controlling that temperature I could not have the room be that that warm And she loves it that warm. I think the the people that write in uh menopause They get the biggest game change you if you if you're going through menopause and you don't have eight sleep. Holy are you missing out? Yeah, yeah for sure. It's not a pill. It's not a hormone. It's nothing chemical It's literally just your body's temp's going up. It senses it cools you down keeps you asleep By the way, we're giving one away tomorrow. Oh, yeah for free. Oh, let's talk about one of the sickest When you go to our instagram page, uh, we're going to do an ig live at 4 p.m Pacific standard time and we're going to give one away and you can enter The way you enter or get entries if you go to maps fitness products.com And get a program or a bundle Uh, that's how you do it. By the way black friday's a code They can see discount on everything right now the sickest part about this right now Like i'm looking up jug has this cast on the tv and I can see who the top 10 leaders and entries Are right now if you go to the the what's the page they can go to it's live. Uh, what does it do? It's live.mpgiveaway.com Oh, so then you can just go and get a free not only that the people can actually see their odds of winning Oh, wow, so based off of your entries and by the way, you get you can get entries for resharing posts on mindpump You get entries for uh programs you get entries for bundles And so you can get entries a lot of different ways free ways and ways by getting maps fitness products And once you have entries you're entered in all the giveaways all month long And it keeps track of your odds of winning and you can see the leaderboard on who has the most entries It's awesome tomorrow. It's an eight sleep at one point. We're giving away a vacation Yeah, we're giving away red light all kinds of cool stuff really cool stuff and it's on ig live Uh, so go check it out Our place makes the best cookware, by the way, it's forever Chemical free that means you can use it and it's non-stick and it looks good. It lasts a long time But you're not ingesting and absorbing weird chemicals that stay in your body A long time that have been shown in studies to have negative effects on your health now the best seller For our place is the always pan it replaces eight pieces of cookware. You can fry with it steam with it saute with it boil and even bake. They also have a perfect pot for soups and pasta. Then they have a wonder oven. It's a countertop oven for roasting and air frying. Again, no forever chemicals. Everything is built to be super durable, non-toxic and good looking. The cookware is titanium non-stick and again, forever chemical free. By the way, they have over a hundred thousand five star reviews and there's a 100 day trial with free shipping and free returns so you literally have no risk in trying Our Place. By the way, we have a discount for 10% off. Go to fromourplace.com, use the code mindpump, get 10% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Jacob from Oklahoma. What's up, Jacob? How are you doing, Jacob? What's happening? What's up, guys? Man, this is crazy. I've been listening to you guys for so long and I shouldn't be nervous to get on this call, but I was kind of anxious. How can we help you? Man, I'm a business owner. I've had a landscape company since 2014. My original dream was opening up my own gym. At 18, 19 years old, I had this big extravagant three-tier multimillion dollar gym, great business plan. I went to the bank and they're like, you have no money and no credit, so this isn't happening. I just followed my dream as being an entrepreneur. I've grown a great landscape business, but I'm at the point now where I'm wanting to kind of get my foot in the door opening up a gym, but I'm wanting to lean more towards a personal training studio, but structuring it almost like how salon owners do with booth threat. We don't really have anything like that in this area. I didn't know if you guys were familiar with something like that or had any advice on what to charge trainers per month to utilize this space. Jacob, where are you located at? Where in the country are you? I'm in Yukon, Oklahoma. Okay. Now, what's the goal with doing this? Why do you want to own one of these? Well, I've always wanted to own my own gym. I'm looking for number one, number two, a second avenue for income, and number three, every single gym I've gone to for like the past five years ends up getting bought out. They put an old pair of shoes in a new shoe box. You give it about five years and it goes under. Initially, I was like, I'm just going to buy space and have my own stinking gym. Then I was like, well, man, let's make some money out of it and let's go back to what Jake wanted to do in 2014 and do something with that. Jacob, you won't make any money off it. If you want your own gym, that's cool. Buy space, do your own thing. What you're talking about is a very difficult business. At best, your trainers would ... By the way, having people come in and pay you to rent your space, the idea is I'm going to get a bunch of self ... Some growth-minded entrepreneur trainers are going to come in and build their business. No, you're not. You're going to get people who are going to try to pay, and then you're going to have to help them build their business. I know this because I did this in Silicon Valley, which is a much better area to open one of these than ... Just like hair salons, there's a high turnover rate. Your trainer comes in, he's paying you $500 a month for their ... They last three months. It's hands-on, dude. If you have a successful business already, to think that you'll do this and it'll be like this part-time thing that you just hop in and they do their own thing, no way, dude. You have to live that. I had to be in there and I had to help them build their business. It was very difficult. At best, they'll pay your overhead and then you make money off of your own training type of deal. I know you're calling it about the gym. I'm actually more interested in the landscape business. Do you have guys working for you and doing a lot of the labor, or are you doing all the labor, too? No, I pop in with them one or two days a week just to help with morale. Other than that, I'm selling jobs, I'm networking, doing billing, stuff like that. I'm not in the field that often. Okay. I would imagine that the selling and networking is probably one of the most important things that you do, keeping the revenue and keeping new clients coming in. If I could outsource that, find somebody that has sales skills as good or better than mine to do that, to keep that lead flow going, then I could go over and I could go build a gym that probably is not going to be very profitable, but it could at least break even so I own my gym. The idea that you would go scale a million dollar or even a six-figure good, solid gym business while also managing a landscape business, probably not going to happen. But if you could automate what the landscape is and actually keep it afloat without really having to do much, but maybe dip in and do the morale thing every now and then, because you've got someone who's selling, who's creating the leads, that business is going and it's keeping you with a nice little bit of revenue every month, then I can go over and I can go build this gym idea that you have with the hairstyle. Most everyone I know, Justin worked in one of those, the guy who owned it was a full-time software engineer. He was a software engineer and then on the side he has this gym. Justin had like 15, 20 trainers and it barely broke even. I was so fascinated with the business, I used to always sit down with him and ask him all these questions about how the business model and he was really smart. They had some of the best trainers in the area. We would consider it a successful gym. It was a successful gym and even he was like, yeah, no, this thing doesn't make it. The hours, effort and energy it took you to build your landscaping business, you're going to have to put at least that much, if not more, into building a gym on the side, bro. You already got a successful business, you got a family. I mean, if you want to do that and you want to go start something brand new and grind for years to make it happen, I'd say, okay, cool, but if you're like, look, I just love the idea of having my own gym, just buy a space, build your own gym and then if you got friends that want to work out there, do your thing, dude, and then go lift and have a great time and curate the sickest gym that you could go work out in, but building a side business like that while you're already successful with the family, yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. Does the owning the gym part interest you more or do you actually really have a passion for training? Do you want to train people? I was going to say, you make more money. I love training people. I did strength and conditioning, so 14 to 25, still middle school, high school, college athletes. I did a bunch of Olympic lifting and power lifting. I love that and so it was kind of a combination of if I can get the space and have my own gym and have these trainers at least cover my overhead, I can still train out of there and I might not make a killing, but as long as I'm not losing any money, I'd be okay with that. Yeah, that's not a bad goal and so my advice would be start incredibly small and outgrow the first place. So in other words, I would lease a CrossFit box type place, warehouse, shitty, cheap, put some squat racks, dumbbells, the basic and try and get two or three other trainers that are willing to split the rent with you and you are hustling your clients out of there and then to the point where the three of you trainers are basically handling the lease because it's not a big lease and then you outgrow that because you have so many clients, they have so many clients and then you grow into a big one or what will probably happen is those guys turn over all the time and you're always looking for another one, but you at least don't have a huge overhead. You're training people like you like. You got your own kind of little space. Don't bite off more than you can chew and think that a bigger facility, more equipment, nicer, is going to attract a bunch of more clients and customers and trainers. Go prove that you can be a personal trainer, make good money doing it in a small little garage box and then go and scale above that. That would be my advice. But look, I'll just look just to make it as real as possible. Justin, Adam and myself have worked in this space for decades in a very wealthy part of the country, so we're not short of money and not short on interest in personal training. So it's probably one of the better places to be a trainer and if you ask us in the 25 years we've been in the industry, how many trainers that we've known that are entrepreneur-minded and can do that? Go ahead and ask us and I'll tell you right now, it's like less than three that I've ever met. Well, even the ones that are successful don't make a lot of money. It's just, well, and the thing too, you brought up that gym that I was training at, each one of us probably made way more money than the owner just with our own training business and that was kind of where I was listening to you guys riff about that. If you do have a passion for that, that's an opportunity. I really do think that if you can find somebody else to carry that overhead and then you kind of come in and start really slowly building your own clientele, it's a better path in terms of if you want to sustain that versus the route of owning the gym. Well, I will say that where I'm at is one of, if not the wealthiest towns in Oklahoma, it has more gyms per capita than any city in Oklahoma and churches. And I just, you know, in the rent, I wanted to ask you when you had your space, what was your overhead for a 2,000 square foot space? My place was smaller than that and my rent was $5,200 a month. That didn't include, now I'm up here in the Bay Area, Las Casas, by the way, it's more now, it'd probably be closer now, $6,500 now. I charged my trainers $750 a month and I had offices that I rented for $800 a month. Remember, this is 1975. This is a long time ago. This was, you know, this was like 15, you know, 17, 18 years ago. Yeah, I would say that that same place is at least seven, eight, Yeah, I would say that that same place is at least seven, $8,000 a month rent and trainers would have to pay closer to $800, $850 a month. Now trainers around here still pay around $800 a month. That hasn't changed much. Yeah. It's just not, bro, I'm telling you right now. It's just tough. Yeah. Listen, the only reason, so Justin never owned a studio because he was smart. The only reason why I owned a studio is because I didn't like work. I didn't want anybody over me. So I'd rather own a place and work 15 hours a day than make more money working eight hours a day, which is, you know, call me stupid, but that's just my, I was just how I felt. But you're better off just training in a studio, paying their rent, dude, and building up your clientele if that's what you want to do. Yeah. Or like I said, like, like literally, you know what I'm talking about? Like a warehouse style garage, like bare bones, hardly like a CrossFit type of vibe, but you're, but you're training clients out of that. Listen, go, you could, clients will come to see you. It will have nothing to do with the equipment. They don't give a s**t. Yeah. So the trainers always make this mistake of like, you know, it needs to look this way and the location's gotta be so good. And I had the best equipment and the best, let's say, no, like people train because they love the trainers. They'll train in your, they'll train in your garage, bro. So, you know, go, go, go prove that first and take low risk while you have a good business behind you already and go, go out, grow it. And then you're like, oh s**t, I've got, this thing is loaded. And I got two other trainers that are loaded. We're going to, we're stuffed in here, which by the way, is a good vibe. You know, when you got, when you got a place cracking with people and stepping on each other, because so many people want to be in this little, you know, training box you have. And then you just let them know, Hey, I'm going to, we're going to get a bigger place. Don't worry real soon here. Like, I mean, go do that first. Uh, you'll, you'll be less stressed out over doing that. And then, and then you, you'll be ready and it'll, it'll, it'll help prepare you for the bigger place too. And give a much better, clearer picture of what you'll need to make in order to sustain a, you know, 5,000 square foot place. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, you got it, man. Man, I appreciate your time and you guys are, you guys are awesome. You guys have been a huge blessing for me over the past couple of years. I'm a data for, and hearing you guys' stories and with work and family and faith and cracking jokes. It's a, I listen to you guys every day. Well, God bless you, man. And great job on your business, bro. You got, you're so young and you're young. You got kids like great job, dude. Yeah. You're the man, Jacob. Appreciate you, brother. Best of luck to you. Thank you guys. Take it easy. Yeah. If you, if you always feel bad crushing, listen, you really, you want them to go experience that? No, no, no. We want to have four kids too. Well, we've got to be real, bro. Like, listen, listen, if you want to make, if you like money, don't go in the gym business. If you like it, working little hours, don't go in the gym business. If you love gyms so much that you're willing to make almost no money and sleep on the floor, go open a gym. You gotta have that. You gotta have that mentality. It's because that's what it is. It's not a money making bit. I know we got companies that make all this money, but look at who they are. Lifetime fitness, the capital that they're coming in with. It's crazy. And the volume that they need to generate, uh, to do that. Uh, it's wild. So no, our next caller is Amanda from Arizona. Hi Amanda. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you guys? We're good. How can we help you? Um, yeah, so I wanted to give some of my background and kind of my current goals. Um, I also wanted to ask a question about how to get into nutritional coaching. So I'll just start with my background. Um, I've been really into lifting the last five years, but I've had a lot of seasons of being really into the gym and then seasons where either I was going to college or like, you know, different things where there's transition, where I couldn't lift as much or where my food changed. Um, so yeah, and I just started taking progressive overload seriously about a month and a half ago. And I've had, um, really good progress so far. Um, a little information on the last year. So I had been lifting very consistently last fall, and then I started marathon training and it kind of switched to more running. And so I was lifting about two times. a week, but running four times a week and having a long run. And I did that for about seven months. And I actually gained fat during the training, and I think I lost muscle. And in May, I started seeing a nutritionist, and she immediately put me in a cut without any building. And then I did my marathon June 7th. And my calories were probably around 2,800, and she brought them down to 1,700. And so I did start seeing some progress in my body fat going down, which was really good to see. But I wasn't focused on progressive overload over the summer, I was just focused on lowering my body fat percentage. By the end of the summer, I went from around 33, the beginning I was at 33% body fat, and then I went down to 27% body fat. But then I was seeing I wasn't really having like the muscular physique I was wanting as much. I don't think I built as much muscle beforehand as I would have wanted. And so I started listening to your guys' podcast about a month and a half ago. And I brought my calories back up after listening and started just lifting really heavy. And then I started doing the concierge coaching about a month ago as well. And yeah, I started with, I was gonna give like my lifts and telling you guys how much stronger I've gotten. But my barbell squat September 5th was 120 pounds, now it's 160 pounds. My leg press was 139, now it's 319. My hip press was 135, now it's 225. My pull-up assist was 95 pounds assist, now it's 70 pounds assist. My deadlift was 45 pounds, and now it's 85 pounds. And I know that also has to do with like fueling more. But yeah, I think my goal would be to get leaner still, because I have noticed like eating more, I have put on a little more fat, but I've also been building a lot of muscle. Yeah, so I wanted maybe your guys' advice on things I can do better going forward and how I can get to my goal from where I'm at right now. Where does the concierge trainer have you calorie-wise right now? Yeah, so they have me at 2,300. Okay, that's good. Honestly, I've been eating a little more some days. Some days I'm hungrier, so I've been sometimes going up to like 2,500 or 2,600, but not every day. I wouldn't say like it's usually 2,300, but yeah, I've definitely been getting hungrier. Do you know why you're getting hungrier? Probably because I'm building muscle. You're hella stronger. Yeah, you get stronger. Like way stronger. Body wants it. Like you've added big percentages to all your lifts, so yeah. Why do you think you've gained body fat? Did you get your body fat tested, or did you just feel bigger? I just feel like my waist looks kind of fuller. It's mainly around my abdominal area. It looks like it's just a little softer, a little fuller. I feel like though my arms, I see so much more definition in my arms. I've never even had this much definition in my whole entire lifting. It's hard, Amanda. Okay, so you've got to be very careful with the subjective, because here's what happens when you bump your calories. You're going to hold more water in your muscles, more glycogen in your muscles, and if you build muscle, you're going to feel kind of bigger. The fact that you see more definition in your arms, that tells me you maybe didn't gain any body fat. I'm not saying you didn't, but I'm wondering if you didn't gain any body fat, and you're just kind of building some muscle. So I'd be interested to see if your body fat percentage has changed at all. Now, 2,300 calories is not a huge jump from 1,700. Now, I know you go up a little bit above that, because you're kind of hungry, and I would talk to your coach about that, because what they'll probably do is bump you again. Yeah, I think the 2,300 to 2,500 range, that's why I was curious where our concierge trainer put you. I was going to say 2,500. So 2,300 to 2,500, it sounds like that's a perfect place for you. So long as you're making good choices, right, we're eating whole foods, you're hitting your protein intake, you're doing all those things, and you're landing around 2,300 to 2,500, you'll probably just slowly build muscle and slowly lean out. And what's nice is if you keep going this direction, you'll keep building muscle, you'll keep being able to increase calories, and then when you finally get to a place where you've built a lot, you keep seeing the strength go up, and you're like, all right, now I want to go in a cut, we'll be able to take you from like 2,700, 2,800 calories all the way back down to like, say, 2,100, 2,200, and you'll just get leaner every week, and still be eating a good amount of calories. You are moving, you're 100% on the right path. Yeah, yeah. You're totally on the right path. You're stronger, and yeah, more muscle definition. Have you just started listening to the podcast right now? Like a month ago? A month and a half. Okay, because we talk a lot about this, and I've been talking a lot about it lately, because Sal and I are in this little body fat competition ourselves right now, and so one of the things, the psychological game is probably one of the toughest parts for people, is because, like he said, you increase your calories by 300, 500 calories on a bulk, and you're lifting weights, I feel way fuller. The minute I go to a cut, and I go the other direction, three days later, I feel flat, but I look leaner, my waist is smaller, so in the stomach area, I'm holding less water, I look smaller, but then I also look like less muscle, and so people tend to go back and forth, because they're like, oh man, I want that muscle look, but then I look all flat in the muscles, but then my waist, and so they go high up in calories, and they go down in calories, and then they end up just kind of staying the same, because they can't commit to one thing. It's like, stay committed to building muscle, you're in a perfect place calorie-wise, you're doing a great job with strength gains, stay the course, stay that way, and then when you really want to cut, we'll go the other way, and then that becomes, you focus on that, but what you're doing right now. You are going exactly where you need to go. Everything you just said is like, perfect. Trust your concierge coach, that's what they're there for, and I'm assuming this is what they're leading you to do, is the 23, and then they're eventually probably going to bump you to 2,500 calories, and then eventually bring you back down the other direction. Your strength gains are crazy, by the way, that's incredible. You keep getting stronger, you're totally moving in the right direction, so you're actually getting really strong. You're not just getting stronger, you're getting really strong, like your leg press went up almost double, I think double, was what you said. That's wild. Yeah, and yeah, it's amazing, you guys have talked a lot on this podcast about women being afraid to eat more and lift heavier, because I was always told, do less weight, more reps, and I never got my strength up a lot of times, because I wasn't lifting heavy, and this is the first time, this is the fastest progress I've ever had. I've always been also trying to lift while being in a calorie deficit, and it's such a game if you're eating enough, and I guess I hope all the women listening can see it's awesome to lift heavy and eat enough, and it's awesome building muscle, because I always wanted to get this strong in my legs, I just was taking the wrong route. You just wait. Yeah, this is the beginning, Amanda. You don't even know. It's the beginning. You just started. Yeah, yeah, it's good to just be patient. It's like, in the game of building muscle and losing body fat, it is a slow, it's slow. It's not like we slap on five pounds of muscle overnight, and we lose five pounds of fat overnight. It takes a while to do both those things, and what you're doing is perfect. Stay the course. Your concierge coach is going to continue to lead you in the right direction. You stay focused on getting strong. If you're hungry, feed, but make good choices. Eat good meals if you're hungry, because that's probably your body telling you you need more calories, and keep going in that direction, and then we'll eventually take you back the other way, and you're going to just see yourself lean out, and then you'll see all this awesome muscle that you've built. And you'll be eating a lot. Yeah. You'll be eating a lot more than you ever were. That's right. You'll be more comfortable. How long do you guys think until I should start a cut? I would say, it's based on the person, but let's see, you're 21, where you started, you've been doing this. You're probably going to start a cut when you get to a good 27, 2,800 calories. I like- Maybe even three. I like, and what we teach our coaches is to continue to push you that direction until you kind of look back at me, and you go, Adam, this is so much food for me. This is so much food I got to eat every day, to where it almost becomes a chore to eat as much as you're eating, and you can't believe it, and then I go, cool, let's cut one of those meals out, or let's take those portions in half. So I like to get you to a place where you cannot imagine, you could have never imagined eating that much and feeling so good, and it's like, okay, now that I know that I've pushed you that far, now let's come back the other way, and we'll land somewhere comfortable for you to eat where you feel satisfied, and it's plenty of meals, and you're leaning out. And that looks different for everybody. That could be 2,600 or 2,700 calories for somebody, that could be 3,500 calories for another woman. I've seen it all, and so that's where the individualization comes, and that's where the coaching with the concierge, when you meet with them and you talk to them, you let them know how you're feeling, all this stuff, and then based off of that, they'll guide you on where the calories should be. Okay, and then for my workout split, I'm doing one of the MAPS programs, I'm not sure which one it is, but I'm doing two upper body, two lower body, and I'm only training abs. Two exercises just one of those days. Should I be training abs more than that? No. No, no, listen to your coach. So we can give you advice on this call, but you're with coaches and you're having longer conversations and we hire our coaches ourselves, so what they give you is what I'm going to back up. But yeah, you're great, you're doing good. Your strength gains are telling me you're doing really well. Okay, great. Thank you. And I had one more question. So my career goal is to eventually be a nutritional coach or a personal trainer who does nutritional coaching alongside that. What advice would you guys have of what route I should take? Last year, I was studying nutritional sciences at university. I withdrew this year to decide whether I should just do online certifications and start getting experience and I'm deciding if I should do more college or just do the online certifications and just get right into it. Experience is way more valuable. Yeah. Applications. Applications are way more valuable. Here's what's cool though. What you're doing right now, crush what you're doing with your coach. And learn. And learn from them. Ask a lot of questions because they're very educated and very knowledgeable and they've learned from us. Continue to listen to podcasts because that's all we do is educate around nutrition and exercise. And then literally follow all the way to your goal with your coach here and then reach back out to us. We have courses for trainers and certifications and teach all that stuff. So we have a school group where we mentor and build trainers. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we do all that. How would I apply to that in the future? What's the website, Doug? The school group would be the Elite Trainer Academy in school.com. Can you send her a link? Yeah, I'll send her a link. We'll send you a link. S-K-O-O-L. Yeah. Doug, we'll send you a link. It's a free community in there where there's thousands of trainers that are- It's actually $12 a month. $12 a month. I thought there's a- There's a trial period. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he'll send you over the link to get in there. There's thousands of trainers in there that we're mentoring and growing and developing. And then we have a certification course, all those things. But the best thing you can do right now is focus with your coach that you have already, the concierge. Learn from them. Take yourself to the- Ask them why they're doing things. Yeah. You'll learn so much taking yourself through this. And it'll build the confidence in what you're doing. And then reach out to us. And we hire within. So everybody who works for us was listening to Mind Pump for years before that. So we like to hire within versus going and finding trainers outside. Okay. That's great. And do you think I should kind of get to my goal before starting to do a certification? Possibly. I mean, I think that you could do both. I don't know what's all on your plate, work, school, all the things. And so if you have the time to balance both, I think that you're already invested in the concierge coaching. I think there's a lot to learn just diving deeper into what you're doing, why they're doing it, why they told you to do those things, listening to podcasts. That's basically either paid for or free already. And then you can look into potentially investing in that. But I'll have Doug send the link. And then we have an educator on that side, Anne, and I can have her reach out to you and explain how all that stuff works on our side too. If you want to get started right away, you can. Okay. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your guys' advice. All right. Thanks for calling in. God bless you guys. You too. Have a good day. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. I mean, she's kicking butt. Yeah. She's doing great. Crushing. There's really not much to say. Yeah, no. She's doing a great job. Literally, when she was kind of explaining everything to me, I was like, I'd probably have her right around 25. I'm curious where our concierge coach put her, 23, 2,500 calories. That's so funny because at 23 is where they have her and she's hungry still. She's hungry. Yeah. So it's like, it's perfect. 23, 25. By the way, I just want to point back to how she said she dropped her calories at 1,700, started running a lot and got fatter and lost muscle. Yeah. That's what happens. Our next caller is Megan from Sweden. Hi, Megan. Hi, Megan. Hi. Nice to meet you. Thanks so much for taking my call. I've been listening to you guys for a couple of years and I really appreciate your podcast. Thank you. Thank you. How can we help you? So I'm going to go ahead and read my question that I sent in. So I have a question about recurring injuries and how to structure my training to avoid them. In short, I've had issues with my lower back, specifically around my SI joint. I've always been active and have been weight training continuously and progressively for over five years and deadlifts often cause flare ups of pain and minor injuries. So my question is about how I should approach this. Should I stop deadlifting and focus on other exercises or scale back and keep deadlifting? I have some more background if you need it. My lower back and my hip area have caused issues for me in different ways for most of my adult life. I've had bursitis, general lower back pain, sciatica, and pregnancy induced pelvic girdle pain in two of my three pregnancies. And in my third pregnancy, I was in a wheelchair because of it for about three months. My youngest is now eight years old, so it was a while ago. And since then, I'll have irritation in my lower back, usually on the left side, but not generally. something that impedes my training but it kind of comes and goes. A few years ago my training was mostly focused on powerlifting and the deadlift was my strongest lift. In 2023 I PR'd about double my body weight and after that I think I had problems with a bulging disc or something that I never I was never diagnosed with anything and it bothered me for a really long time after that and I would avoid deadlifts. In the past couple of years I've been doing RDLs which seem to work better but I've been more conservative and haven't gone as heavy and I started incorporating regular deadlifts again but at a much lighter weight and about three weeks ago when I sent in my question something popped just in my lower back while I was deadlifting and I was in some pretty severe pain for several days and so I took a short break from training, walked and I can't feel it at all anymore. So my question is really about how should I approach this going forward particularly regarding the deadlift. I'm torn between skipping them and sticking to RDLs which have worked better but at the same time I don't want to skip exercises and create imbalances and weaknesses and I would love some insight about this. Just some general facts about me, I'm 41 years old, I'm 166 centimeters 55 kilos, I lift full body three days a week and I run once sometimes twice. I eat around 2,100 calories a day and strive for 120 grams of protein but if I'm being honest I usually get around a hundred. I have a full-time desk job and I average around eight nine thousand steps a day when I count in my runs. Yeah that's about it and I would enjoy any recommendations that you might have for me. Thanks Megan for calling in. Okay so with someone like you so and your background in training so without doing an assessment I'm gonna make some educated guesses but I think I'm probably on point especially because you trained as like a power lifter. You probably don't include a lot of movements that strengthen your lateral stability or rotational stability and you probably don't do a lot of unilateral work and so what happens when you get really strong which you got pretty strong at a particular movement the muscles that stabilize that movement there starts to become an imbalance okay there starts to become an imbalance the point where you know they support you but if your technique is off even by a hair it's very susceptible then you then you can run into some problems and so you see this when people do lots of squats lots of deadlifts lots of presses lots of rows with no lateral stability no rotational mobility you know movements or rotational strengthening and no like unilateral type work and so it starts to become quite common so there's a couple exercises that I think would probably be beneficial for you to focus on I think windmills would be a great exercise for you. Suitcase carries. Suitcase carries would be really good even a good old-fashioned dumbbell side bend would be good lateral sled dragging yep you know some rotational movements and then a whole cycle of unilateral work yeah and I think symmetry yeah map symmetry would be great for all that and then I think you get back into your deadlifting and always incorporate some kind of lateral stability movement in your routine and then every couple months every two three four months do a unilateral block of 30 days or something like that and you should be okay but what you're explaining especially on the SI joint it's so common with people who just focus on this bilateral deadlift and squat even like bursitis in the hips and bursitis in the hips I mean that's me like this happened to me same thing yeah yeah so yeah and I think you guys are right I've started doing a bit more unilateral lately but not rotational definitely something that I could improve and my my original background is in ballet so I've done a lot of that kind of motions and my doctor when I was pregnant thought that perhaps this pelvic girdle pain had something to do with hypermobility and me having done so much ballet and then maybe not having the stability so there's a so I think that so when you look at sports you see common injury patterns in high-level sports right so ballet there's gonna be like a like a sequence of injuries that are quite common same thing with basketball or tennis or swimming and when you look at strength like power lifting what you're describing is super common and it's not because the deadlift is bad the deadlift is great but if you get really strong of the deadlift and you train it all the time and you don't focus on lateral ability there yeah like that like the ability of the spine to bend laterally to stabilize and strengthen a rotation SI pain is like it's one of the more common things yep SI pain bursitis all that yeah yeah have you have you have you got any sort of a mobility routine at all or if you did you ever get a chance to watch the webinars that Justin and I did on on mobility we're really good no I've seen just little little bits but not the entire thing no I should check that out I know it's not I used to do a lot of yoga which I actually found made it worse but I know that that's not the same as more mobility totally totally different abilities different so you're talking about flexibility yeah this is all connected this is more getting strong in that range I'll have Doug send you the link it's PrimeProWebinar.com I believe that's correct yeah PrimeProWebinar.com that's the one you did yeah it's the one I did mine's better than Justin's it's a but it's it's a really it's it's just I I chose from literally from your my toes to my neck movements my favorite movements with my clients that I did over the years it's like a legit workout I would yeah it's a good 50 minutes like throw it on the TV in your living room and follow it like literally follow the instruction with me and just see how you feel from that and what what normally I would point out I'd like to do those all of my clients I would always be able to find one or two in every client that was really glaring like let's say you get down in the 9090 and I see you do it I go oh wow her left side she really lacks internal rotation so you might you'll if you really notice a discrepancy in one side or another on the movements that I have you do in there like that's your kind of like flag of like okay I need to spend a lot of time getting better at this to balance that out because if there's a major discrepancy from left to right and you're really strong doing these bilateral movements that's normally an area that really will make a difference if you can show and if you take that one you know egregious movement that you're like wow I need to work on this and and then you implement that as your primer before your workouts yes and really just like repeat that as much as possible you're trying to learn how to stabilize again and really like train your body to respond appropriate for that that's gonna do a lot for your pain okay great thank you so much we'll send you back to the tree okay that's a unilateral work training program that I think will be good for you to follow thank you thanks so much for your time you got it all right yeah I mean I had I was having hip pain and I did six weeks of lateral sled drags gone yeah it's magical hip pain was gone I'm the same way and I'm like oh I might need a hip I mean obviously lack of yeah obviously we aren't there doing this virtually and yeah so we can't do it so doing a legit assessment would would really tell us a lot more but I'm with Sal this is the logical yeah based off of what she's breaking down and saying she especially to you know it's common also is somebody who did address that stuff in the past really well it's atrophied because you don't do any of it anymore and then you get really strong like the bilaterally and so there's this there is this huge discrepancy in a person like that I think it's even more exacerbated when you have someone who probably did a lot of stuff like that in the past and then it's completely neglected it our next caller is Shannon from Washington did you take our advice Shannon I did it was a fun experiment okay so tell us what happened it was kind of scary but it was it was fun I'll feel free to interrupt me at any time also I'll just start just to let the callers know before talking with you guys at almost 62 I'd maintained my weight within 5 pounds for the last 10 years mostly without tracking if I ever did track I'd never go above 1600 usually more like 13 to 14 if I was trying to dial it in but like I said I had not been tracking but I did right before our last call and discovered that I was averaging 1500 to 1900 calories and let's see I was holding the lean physique at about 18% body fat I think put my last dex ex scan a year ago you guys challenged me to reverse diet for 60 days and to put on more body fat and hopefully more muscle so I could feed the booty trying for glute growth and I've just been struggling with that and so for the update it's just been really interesting really fun to to try this and really loved seeing how my body adapted as I added more calories and it really took the fear away for me to also with that it's I started out with the weekly average of about 1850 ended with a weekly average of about 2300 I stayed in the mid 2200s for about four weeks and then I had several high days in the last week or so 2400 to 2800 and I kind of started to spiral I let sugar come back in and that little sugar monkey got me so I kind of lost a little bit of control there but anyway the protein was always high usually 170 to over 200 I know that's more than I need but I struggle to do lower than that I always crack up when people struggle higher it's like I struggle to get it lower let's see carbs and fats are all over the place never too low never on either I mainly focus just on the calories and the protein is that fine with tracking like as long as you're as long as you're getting higher fat meat was your fat above 65 70 at least how many grams of fat okay yeah it was the low end was 80 but oh you're good oh you're good you're good yeah I love my fat yeah good I used to be more lower carbs so I'm used to eating a lot of good I lifted an upper lower split four days a week mostly focused on shoulders and glutes my lifts are split up during my work breaks at the gym I have two 15-minute breaks in a 30-minute break four days a week so that's when I do my workouts not doing any cardio not even walking I'm trying to get myself to do more walking but there was a week or so recently where I was doing less due to hip pain and I think my neck was out I think it was all related but I got adjusted and feel better so anyway the results I gained two to three pounds not sure about the accuracy of the Renfro scale you know are you for the body fat but it said my body fat was at point eight and it said muscle mass up 1.5 that's I don't know if that's accurate or not but I noticed slight strength increases or I just harder you know it's hard to tell my hip thrust went from 250 to 280 my Bulgarians went from a 35 pound dumbbell to I mean a 30 pound dumbbell to 45 my shoulders I just added some reps went from six to eight reps to ten reps let's see oh and yesterday I was able to do 20 pounds for side laterals that was my first with that we don't have 17s at the gym so I had anyway um let's see although when they're looking at my pics I don't know if you guys saw those I feel like I look exactly the same maybe a little less defined just from that little bit of body fat but I don't know I'm still struggling like I don't know what I'm doing Shannon if you were here I'd shake the shit out of you if you were here I would shake the shit out of you you are your your your here's the challenge keep going yeah more you're going in the right direction going the right direction I and if we if we put 0.8 pounds of fat on and we put 1.5 pounds of muscle on we're heading the right I care less about that the fact you added 20 pounds to your hip thrust and you're obviously moving in the right direction your calories are still too low yeah yeah we're low you just need more anymore keep going I should be going for oh now I mean well now if you've been averaging 22 23 I'd bring you up to probably 26 yeah and I'd stay there for a while and keep getting stronger yeah yeah yeah um as far as you did build muscle you little clown I can see in your picture yeah shake the shit out of you you look look at your pictures yeah yeah you did build muscle my glutes have looked the same forever and I'm wondering you got no fat that's where most our fat sits yeah you got to get fatter do you get a fat ass muscles go 2600 calories you've got a great metabolism it's really responsive yeah no you're you're great that two to three pounds on the scale was probably a little bit of muscle and water it's probably what you gain yeah well yeah and that was right after I had a really bad eating like yeah so that I knew that I was inflamed for the oh gosh yeah I know you probably haven't even gained a pound yeah what I'm most interested in is the strength gains and then how you feel and I'm gonna guess that your energy probably went up to mm-hmm kind of I mean I feel really I've always felt pretty good so I mean I'm maybe I think so did you see the part should I read the part about I really like and look in my pictures I was I kind of asked you guys what would you recommend and I look at it's clear as day that I need to work the back of my legs more and I had been and my glutes and I had been neglecting RDLs because I get elbow pain when I'm usually doing with dumbbells and I get elbow pain when I lift anything higher than 35 however I did try the other day using those hook things good able to do 50s but then I get freaked out like I really worry about my lower back and enough I've had I mean I have scoliosis Pretty bad, and you can probably see my weird. I would I would you know RDLs are fine single leg deadlifts are good Yeah, leg curls are really good Thrusts are really good what am I facing since you have the hook grips one of my favorite things to do with Katrina is I have her Stand by like a squat rack or a pole that she can hold balance and and then the other hand is holding on to the Heavy weight and she does single leg deadlifts like that. Yeah, so single see you get how So it just helps stabilize you in balance I mean if you could do it without holding, but I when I want her to push weight I let her I don't I'm less focused on stability. I'm more focused on her pushing weight heavy in one leg I like I want her to hold the hold the bar to stay help her stabilize and hold a 70 pound plus dumbbell in the other arm and do single leg deadlift so good Yeah, I like holding on I hold on when I do my RDLs too. I always have one hand on the wall in front of me I like awesome. Yeah, um so with the single leg RDLs Are they am I keeping my leg straight like one leg kind of going straight back, or is it more RDL like? Yeah, kick the leg back slide the hips back You want to feel that all that stretch in the hamstring in the glute if you do that's when you know you're hitting it Just right you slot your hip a hip hinge So you're sliding back you feel that good stretch in the hamstring the glute gets activated squeeze the glute come forward Yeah, and load that sucker. Yeah, see what you can see what you can load it with and Continue to keep your calories 25 26 and some people putting one knee on a bench and doing it No, I like the way No, do the way Adam saying it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Square while you do it and then also I don't I've had this really like when I when I'm Doing more pull-ups. I noticed in at night when I'm I usually sit up in bed and watch TV for a little while and I just get excruciating pain, and I think it's called the intercostal muscles or whatever between your ribs Like I can hardly take a breath. I will like yelp it hurts so bad and that's also my saggy side of my Scoliosis, and I don't know if pull-ups or maybe Pulling I don't I don't know Yeah, you might be over stretching the intercostals a little bit Maybe Maybe focus a little bit on Rows for a little while and then do pull downs With a lighter weight and go slower intercostal suck to pull and over pullovers Yeah, pullovers might be okay, but watch out for that too with the intercostals Yeah, you just kind of like, you know be a little careful because I've worked with clients like that and I know exactly what you're Talking about. Yeah, it's been frustrating last year for my 61st birthday I had a goal of 10 pull-ups and chin-ups and I hit 12 on my birthday and then this year by 60 by 62nd was just last week and I can only do like five now because I'm five or six because it's just I kept backing off because of that and the elbow Pain, yeah, so if we if we really want if we want the booty gains like I'm gonna push calories hip thrusts Single leg deadlift on you all day. We're going heavy We're gonna get stronger and stronger in that direction and I'm gonna keep pushing you to calories Yeah, and I want you to be I don't give a shit if we put seven pounds ten pounds on the scale I don't care if you feel fluffy for a little bit. We can always get shredded. You have a very responsive metabolism I can tell already and so I can easily be pushing you 2,800 3,000 calories for a while put on a little bit of body fat and muscle build that ass and then bring you the other Way down and you'll just lean right out I already know you will and so but it would be where you would where I'd be in your ear is the Psychological side of keep going. I don't care. You're fine. You're fine. Trust me Trust me and that that's all I'd be saying to you and then you're you're you will absolutely do it But you gotta allow yourself to put on a little bit that way put on a little bit of body fat It's okay. You can you already know you have the discipline to get back to shredded. You have it. That's the easy part for you Thank you. Um one more thing about I Have not been incorporating squats and is that like a big missing link or is are already are Bulgarians enough You're fine. So if you did squats and I'm assuming you stopped doing squatting because it bothered you maybe do the scoliosis Well, it's it's I don't know It's I trained at home with dumbbells for so long that I just kind of I don't know I stopped doing them and then I was so focused on the glute exercises during my breaks at the work that sometimes I just couldn't fit it in and also The squat rack that it's a slanted Smith machine Smith machine at the gym They're getting the free bar next month. They're finally getting a couple of those but and I have one at home that never gets used. I hate to say that I bought it a long time ago long story I'm gonna I'm gonna say if you're gonna squat Treat it like a skill and practice it don't use it to train until you get really good Very much at all, but also know this Bulgarians RDL's hip thrust and hip thrust you do those three and we get strong and Loaded like I care more about that than like you practicing the squat right now this is since our main goal is go build the butt and like if I had like let's that's that's what we're gonna do as Fast as we can as best as we can. It's pushing calories. It's get strong as shit in those three lifts Yeah, and and and a goal is next month. You're telling me a PR and at least two of those three lifts That's what I'm pushing on you And that's all we're gonna focus on and that is what will that will give the greatest return That's right on the butt anything else doesn't mean that I don't think squatting is good I think practicing squats would be great But if you tell me my main focus is I want to build my butt 100% I'm gonna that's how I'm gonna push you those three lifts push the calories your goal is in the first 30 days I'm gonna PR two of those three lifts. You said RDL's Bulgarians and what? I Yeah, of course. Your main lift is your hip thrust. Yeah, that's your that's true. Yeah I'm always watching that's how I time my breaks when that thing's open. I'm like Well, it's like I say one more thing of 45 degree hypers Versus RDL's or do those also or can they replace or does it need to be different? Those three lifts are the main focus. Yeah, don't worry about if you do other accessory stuff great, but I again I Would more stuff is not going to make you stronger at those three lifts Get strong at those three lifts our whole entire week is based. We're gonna do more of anything do more of those. Yes That's what that's the goal. That is a goal Already shook the shit out of you. What else you want? I know promises promises. No So the timing of this I didn't like because I like to do a DEXA scan every year on my birthday Which just passed but I did schedule one for two weeks from now and I was wanting to just kind of Tighten up a little bit for that and then go back You're so shredded you Know what reason why is this is we need to practice not caring about that. Yeah, we need to practice not caring about that We don't care you turn that in for a money prize. Like what so who cares? Yeah Shannon you won. You're sick. You're 62 years old You guys going on your vacation you want to get shredded for you already won that game I don't you Yeah, the most amazing. We're on that. We're gonna build the ass game. Aren't we is they let's make sure we're clear on our goals Here we're on the build the ass game. How much more do you want to win? Yeah, okay If that's if we're on the build the booty game, then that's the thing if the focus was get shredded then I'd say, okay Focus isn't that the focus is let's go build the butt. Let's go. So that's what you gotta do. Yeah skip the body fat test All right, good. Okay. Let's thank you. Good job. Yes do it guys. Yeah. All right, bye Kicking butt. Yes. Hey, you know, it's crazy. Can I just say something real quick? So you have a woman who's strength trained for years consistent obviously has a decent amount of muscle mass You can see it in her picture in her, you know in the video. Yeah, and although she's restricted calories here and there She hasn't restricted so much that she's prevented herself from being fit. She just kept herself a little too lean here's what I want to say with that as 62 years old to have that responsive of a metabolism crazy it's because of her years of strength training because you when I You work with a 62 year old woman Who doesn't have a background of exercise and you try the reverse diet? I mean, I mean it works but takes a long time their bodies just don't respond like a 23 year old or a 33 year old Shannon's bodies respond like a 23 year old. Yeah, and it's because of her history of consistency with so she could she could push 3,000 cow. Oh, yeah Oh easy and and look amazing and be totally fine to be 3,000 calories as a tiny as a tiny female. That's badass. And that is a full test Testament to strength training. Oh, yeah and point out to she's got scoliosis that she's trained through that. Yeah I mean, that's most people chalk that up as I can't because of that and look at she's been able to build incredible Great job. Look if you like the show come find us on Instagram. It's my put me Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and Maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mind pump media Com the RGB super bundle includes maps anabolic math performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to Systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos The RGB super bundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers But at a fraction of the price The RGB super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media calm if you enjoy this show Please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support and until next time. 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