Calories Are Down. Exercise Is Up. So Why Is Obesity Exploding?

Key Takeaway

Stop treating weight management as a calorie math problem. Today, make one meal from minimally processed foods—such as vegetables, beans, fruit, nuts, fish, eggs, or plain yogurt—and include fiber- and polyphenol-rich plants. This shifts attention from restriction to feeding your microbiome, supporting fullness and metabolic signaling. Build the habit meal by meal instead of counting every calorie; over time, food quality is more likely to support sustainable appetite, energy, and weight regulation.

Episode Overview

Mark Hyman and cardiologist-nutrition scientist Dariush Mozaffarian examine why obesity has risen even as reported calorie intake has flattened and physical activity has increased. They argue that food quality, ultra-processing, the microbiome, resting energy expenditure, and food-system policy matter more than simplistic “eat less, move more” advice. The conversation also covers protein, seed oils, omega-3s, and making medically tailored food part of health care.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Calories Are Down. Exercise Is Up. So Why Is Obesity Exploding? from The Dr. Hyman Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

So, consumption calories decreased or left about the same same as in 2000, and physical activity has increased, and obesity has increased dramatically since 2000 year. So, we have paradox. So eat less, do more exercise sports, which, as we everyone says it seems , does not work. What is truly amazing, so this is the science of how food affects our biology. We we find out what type the food we eat long-term, much more important for its calories. Here why can't we to blame the force will. Welcome back to the podcast Darius.

I am so happy. your new book " "Food is medicine," which just came out. It was the work of all my life. And the fact that someone like you too gets it, just perfectly. And for those who listens and doesn't know who such a doctor Mazafarian, he cult leader in food industry, research in the field food. He is the one the guy I'm with appealed to learn all about food from it scientific works, more long before we became friends. Uh, he, he is one of the most fruitful, uh, published authors in the field nutrition, deep thoughtful, and reached mostly those the same conclusions as I, regarding chronic diseases and food, and about how we trying to solve the problem of chronic diseases by with the help of medication, and cause of chronic diseases not in shortage of medicines.

The thing is absence proper nutrition , and the whole idea of ​​food as There are so many medicines important in its work, like mine. He is a former dean. schools of science and food policy Texas university. Now he heads the institute nutritional medicine in Texas university. We many years worked together in policy issues in Washington, District Colombia. And, you know, we are just together have walked this path around how we improve our food system, because it's not easy personal problem. The fact that we are in America is suffering obesity and we have chronic disease, there is no everyone's fault, because people weak-willed, morally corrupt or have no strength of will, this is completely different case.

And we let's talk about that this is it. We let's talk about key controversies in nutrition regarding protein, about oils from seeds, about what we should eat, not should eat, about what this is ultra-processed food. And we too let's talk about some key questions that were and remain controversial, namely : calories. Are all Are the calories the same? We Let's talk a little about politics. We are not we will be too much for you tiring, but I I think it's important, because if we don't change food system, we will not be able to solve this problem.

It's like trying to draw water from boat with a giant with a hole in the bottom, not patching it up. So, Dara, welcome. , and let's move on to the point. Tell me us, like you, like a biologist with Stanford by education, as a doctor with Colombia, as cardiologist with Harvard Education, as a Master of Philosophy, Doctor of Medical Sciences, an ordinary doctor, like you somehow felt an epiphany that food can be important, considering, that we are nothing learning about food in medical institute or during training.

You know, I wrote this a book to collect buy everything I need learned for himself career, and try explain this to people. You you have the opportunity to spend a few hours with someone, and I they put so much questions, and often it the same questions again and again. And I I thought, you know, if I can write everything down. what I know, explain science, how did we get here got to, you know, where we are today and how are we really need get out of this mess, you know, I could to help uh you know, separate for a person to understand that to do today and tomorrow with the fact that she eats, but also really help us everyone understands what we don't know, and where, where we shouldn't, you know, probably too to worry because there are not many certainties, as well as what there is a solution, how do you said.

So great to be here to answer yours question. I have on mind you, you know Absolutely right. You know, after I'm 15. I'm graduating from high school. years of studying to become a doctor, right? Four years in college , four years in medical institute, three years of internal medicine, four years cardiology. And for these 15 years of food, which we studied, it was in mainly biochemistry, for example, what is KB cycle, where from ATP is taken as splits glucose, Yes? And this is what importantly. We need so that you understand this.

But the real thing food is not enough for 15 years of study. And that's it. Well, the more I saw patients, uh, you know , on both coasts, or wherever my clinics, especially I understood that food really important for their health. And this was my first the epiphany I'm talking about I write in the book that main reason poor health, with which are faced many patients, absent from security health. And that's enough. big sentence, quite important statement that actually explains a significant part of it the mess we are in found themselves with increasing costs for health care, people who are sick every day, and, you know, the bankruptcy of our of the future through, you know, I'll buy it hospitals and devices MRI and medicines from Europe.

Uh, and then the second one the epiphany that I felt, it was what I said: "Well, I I'm going alone. read all the science and at least I'll try to be the best and the most informed a doctor that I can be". And that was it. around the year 2000. AND so I started reading all science, nutrition science, because she was there. Its simply ignored. Yes, that's true. And in I still have the text. presentation that I acted as cardiologist fellow for seniors cardiologists than that, what I wrote and what I wrote, this is what this emphasis on fats and saturated fats are wrong.

To us you need to think not only about cholesterol LDL. We need to think about inflammation and endothelial function, as well as about complex impact food products and holistic models food, as well as about protective products. What protective products are lacking in diet? An example of this can be be Mediterranean diet. Remember, this is It was the year 2000. It was a peak. low-fat diet, you know, er, er, fetish isn't that right? We have everything was low-fat, you know, snacks, defatted frozen yogurt, low-fat dressings for salads and, you know, all low-content fat.

And this was the second epiphany. When did you present this is for this group cardiologists, it was heresy that is saturated fats may not be a big problem, but LDL may not be all history. You were thrown rotten tomatoes? Unfortunately, in hospitals conditions were very poor tomatoes. Um, but, uh , lots of french fries. Lots of French fries and French fries on you. Yes. However, it was the second epiphany, which It happened to me, Mark, is that we had science in their hands, and she was not moved to public and dietary recommendations or politicians.

I wrote that patient hospitalized with heart attack, and I wrote about cardiological diet. And when I delved into the point is to see what this is cardiological diet: low content fat, low content salt, low content cholesterol, uh, um, and low content saturated fats. And there is processed carbohydrates, jelly and, you know, uh, ginger ale and, you know, sparkling water and something like that Kool-Aid. And so. Yes. And for patients with cordial diseases. And so then, you know, I I understood these two things: main reason poor health absent from security health, and that even the science we have, does not reach people.

Yes. And I have to help. fix both of these things. This is great. Yes. I Seriously, I remember how was it Cleveland clinic. I have on mean that this cardiological hospital number one in world, and I started there work in 2014, and I thought, "Okay, which cardiology Is there a diet offered here? "And I thought, "This is very low-calorie high-fat diet starch content and sugar". And for everyone who listens, you know, causes of heart diseases changed, but mostly the majority heart disease now, heart attacks , caused by resistance to insulin and metabolic dysfunction.

And this caused by high sugar content and starch, not typical things, about which we thought, such as excessive amount of fat. AND You know, we are together. worked on dietary recommendations and advised the government on this question. And this was one of the things about which we spoke, and exactly: we seem to got rid of it fear of the problem of obesity, which everyone had. So I I think we we achieve the goal, but that was enough...that there was enough heresy in In 2000. Enough It's amazing that you do this.

said. So what? did your colleagues say? They were polite. I presented research. I said that I want to spend trial Mediterranean diets in the United States to repeat Mediterranean... a little research , held in France, under the name " Heart research by Leon's diet, which showed that Mediterranean diet reduces heart rate attacks by 62% in people with cordial diseases. AND so I said I wanted repeat that research in United States. AND, you know, people were polite, and, um, you know, were there, or worked pagers, and they were coming back, you know, to caring for another end of the spectrum, which is that after everyone get sick, you know, we must save people.

This is important; we we can't, we don't we can ignore this. But it wasn't big, big, big interest. So me really had to continue learning, and I continued to to get a degree PhD in Philosophy public health, nutrition and epidemiology, uh, in Boston Harvard. And then, you know, I started my career there, first at Harvard, and now in TUS. And mine career, I think, I tried very hard not to be desk scientist , you know, just to to sit behind one's back at the table, to spend research, publish them and to hope that someone will read them, right?

? I also tried interpret this as did we meet? then in healthcare, food sector, non-profit organizations, government, uh, in the United States States and all over world. And what's interesting is how you said that's what we are in the moment I'm talking about I think we'll talk, turning point, when are the real changes possible. And this differs from of what was behind the last 25 years of my careers. Next I want thank you for that introduction about how you got here because is quite amazing. Because, because I I would like to say to the people who listen, that, you know, Dar is one of the most honest and the most virtuous medical scientists, which I know, which I don't ideologically is guided by which follows the evidence where they would not lead, including heresy: saturated fats can not be so scary, as we imagined them.

So as a cardiologist, American College cardiology still adheres to this. OK. So, I want to, I want a minute. move away and to ask you to draw a picture how we got here Did you get there? We live in absolutely spoiled food system , which causes diseases of Americans and getting sicker the world's population, and we created the worst food system in the world and spread its for each country planets, except, perhaps Burma and Cuba, because we don't have it. relatives, and this surprisingly. I was on Cuba, and there, it seems, no one has overweight.

Everyone is thin. This is quite amazing, and there is nothing there American. So how? Did we get here? AND then we will switch channel and let's go to favorite everyone's radio station, which is called WFM. What What about me? We let's talk about calories. We Let's talk about protein. We will talk about fats. We will talk. about seed oils. We Let's consider all this. So step away and help first us to understand how we got into this crazy system, in which one are we now we are, which causes so much diseases.

Well, first of all, Mark, I I want to start with this, how bad today, because you're talking about it talked. But let's let's really draw picture, because one of messages of this book, which, in my opinion, really important, is that food —this is the biggest the problem with which humanity is facing. Point. Amen. You know, I'm not saying that this is among them. This is the biggest the problem with which humanity is facing. AND it can be fixed. This is kind of...this something like amazing. It the biggest reason poor health, which causes in United States and many countries the world's largest the reason for the economic devastation due to loss labor productivity , security costs health, expenses for medical service with own pocket, huge economic consequences for enterprises that self-insured their employees etc.

This is the reason number one devastation surrounding environment, climate, soil, water, oceans, pollution. Uh, and this also the main one reason, not the highest cost, but the main the cause of inequality in society within countries and between countries. Uh, and if you add total expenses for health care, economic costs, environmental costs and, you know, the costs of human justice, then this the biggest problem. There is nothing more. War, you know, infectious disease, you know, energy–no nothing more than that it would be possible to fix. So I want to for people to postpone the book and realized, that the food they eat , –this is probably the most important thing that they do every day just for yourself health, but also for national security and our economy community, our family , our country, and also for the environment.

AND this is really critical importantly. And you know, Mark, we are so sick. We have shown that 10,000 Americans every week are dying directly from poor nutrition, mostly from chronic diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and others, you know, adiposity. These are three September 11 events weekly. And we all just lower shoulders, because it is happening slow. It's like a frog in boiling cauldron, yes ? Uh, you know, all of this is happening slowly, and we just we shrug our shoulders. So, it destroys us and destroys our economy.

Ahem, at least 1.5 trillion dollars for year, and if we take into account inflation in security health, I think that it is closer to 2 trillions of dollars. At least 1.5 trillion dollars for a year is lost economy through security costs health and lost productivity person because of bad food. Not from all diseases, related to nutrition, this much more. Just from the bad food, uh, yes its consequences, or, you know, one and a half trillion dollars tea every year; for 10 years, 15 trillion dollars, right?

Or could we repay deficit, if we, if you know, if we, if we could, we could return it financing and prevent this disease. Therefore, this is the first message. Second message of the book is that we got to where we are today, thanks to series, uh, interconnected, sometimes random, hmm, events in just a hundred years, when the new science combined with government priorities and business innovations, so that purposefully create a food system for achieving certain goals goals that were not evil. They tried to achieve goals that made sense at that time.

You helped me understand, like everyone else Listen, Dari. helped me with mine the book "Corrections" food" and helped me understand the context why we are here got there. And I, I, I I really appreciate it. And I also reached the same the conclusion that food is connection where everyone meets our global problems, and what if we we'll fix the food, we We'll fix everything. You know , that's pretty amazing. I mean, even , you know, our crisis mental health. I mean, this just continues and continues.

We, we, we don't we fix everything, but not everything, not all, but we we fix a lot, we are correcting many, we came to war and all that, but, you know, except natural disasters. It quite large, quite big lever. In the summer, when I constantly switching between work and everything else , life throws me all sorts of nonsense. I pretty quickly noticed what clothes actually convenient, but which one is not. That's why I lately yes I often wear Cozy Earth tea for the whole day. He made of bamboo fabric and still great feels even after a stressful day.

I noticed the same thing. attention to quality as in in their pajamas, and in sheets. Everything from Cozy Earth simply seems easier and more comfortable. AND, honestly, when something so good, that you are completely Stop talking about it. think, you understand, how much in reality These little things are important. everyday conveniences. This summer Cozy Earth tea all day and Rib pajama set knit became my two favorite. Find yours at cozyear.com/heimman and get a 20% discount. I I often say that food is medicine, but there is another one part of the conversation, about which we don't have enough of we are talking.

The way we we prepare food, too It matters. Warm months–this is actually a great time to rethink your habits. People are cooking more fresh food. They are grilling. . They eat more easily. They are focused on in order to feel better every day. And one thing small but significant Updates are attention to the dishes that regular is used. I was impressed. Maiden Stainless Cloud collection because she designed without chemical coatings and created for durability, heat control and daily cooking. Their five-layer stainless steel evenly heats up, great withstands high temperatures and enjoys trust professional chefs some of the best restaurants of the world.

But most of all to me I like that. she does preparation real food at home simpler and more pleasant that there is one of the foundations long-term health. If you want to update your dishes, go to maidenware.com and use the code highman-5 to get 10% discounts on the first order. So, let's talk. about, you know, I'm short I will tell you about the goals, which we tried to achieve, but very It is important to understand that we are not just let's start the story food from evil food companies that make us sick.

Because if we start with this, the only one the solution will be destroy food sector, burn everything to the ground and destroy everything. We must understand, that we got here thanks to conscious decision, science, public policy, business innovations. Because if we let's take the same one roadmap, science, public policy and business innovation now, we can do it to fix. We can fix it. And we have done this in the past century approximately for 30 years, and that's why we we can fix this again in 30 years or Less.

And so on, this really important. Then How did we get here? You know, healers have known for millennia, that food is critical important for health, isn't that right? You know, the Egyptians laid liver for people with night blindness. So Vitamin E penetrated into eye and treated chickenpox blindness. And you know, you must understand therapeutic properties of herbs, and, e -eh, you know, in Persia and, of course, in China, but modern science about food, where we are really started understand what it is does, I date her born in 1932.

So less than 100 years old it is very new science. What happened in 1932 the year when it was first opened vitamin, isolated and synthesized vitamin S. So even in the 1920s years vitamins were unknown. No, no one knew what it was vitamins. They are not opened, or, you know, in the 1910s there were some theories and idea about them, but actually it was the 1920s those, the 1930s. And here it is first appeared diseases that tormented humanity for hundreds of years. Pellagra, which killed 100 000 Americans only several decades ago.

Uh, and 3 million Americans suffered from pellagra, terrible diseases that accompanied itching and cracked skin, neurological, uh, deviations, anxiety and delirium, and then death on place. Vitamin deficiency group B through vitamin deficiency group B, scurvy vitamin B, which killed more sailors, uh, you know, at seven years in the 18th and 19th centuries than any what else is there at sea. Scurvy was the killer of the sea, Vitamin C deficiency. Chicken blindness, that is Vitamin A deficiency. Rickets, terrible bone deformities, vitamin D deficiency. This were endemic disease, you know, when you had children, who suffered, well, you know, from these states.

AND What's amazing is that that which is deadly debilitating illnesses it was possible to cure for with the help of nutrients substances in the amount of almost a penny for one night. This is one of the most wonderful medicines medicine. It was incredible...doctors today they don't know, What is pellagra? Nobody saw no case pellagra, scurvy or You know, rarely... night blindness or rickettsia. These were not serious disease, Mark, and people considered them contagious. People thought that was it infectious disease, and I as if I were passing by these discovery, and this, you know, on the shores Indonesia, you know, on Jakarta Island, and in the southern United States States, and in Poland, and Scientists seem to have figured it out this is what they discovered, oh Oh my God, the food is responsible for some of the major diseases which they considered infectious or bad moods, or just...but this there were problems with deficit, they were scarce, therefore randomness of history was that it coincided with the Great depression and the Second world war, when there were very real concerns regarding national safety, suitability to military service, real shortage food.

And this prompted the government to act and significantly expand these studies. And how just one example, you know, president Franklin Delanore Roosevelt called conference in 1941 before pearl harbor saying, "We are going to war. What do we need? need to be done to to solve, you know, these new vitamins and this one "A new deficit?" And this one scientific group, you know , scientists with blue tape, examined all science and said: " Well, you know, we we are sick with these diseases because we deprived of food by processing, we have deprived "her vitamins." For example, they They said: "We are grain deprived, you know, refined grains, wheat flour, rice, white rice and everything else.

We deprived all these nutrients." They could reach conclusion that we need less to process our products, but they concluded that we need complement ours products with these absent vitamins. And so enriched is added wheat flour, which is still dominant wheat flour in United States, and that's good, that's not bad . If you receive any packaging and look at on the back, it says "enriched wheat", in open brackets is this list, you know, funny strange words. It's just a bunch of things, isn't that right? Both. significantly accelerated this attention to vitamins.

AND That's amazing, Mark. as you said, in about 10 years we are largely eliminated these diseases that for centuries devastated humanity . And it was huge. victory, which led to, you know, extraordinary, uh, confidence, excessive confidence that that we figured out nutrition, we can to produce food for treatment of human diseases. This was one big, big, a big thing that happened. The second big the thing that happened is what in the 50s and 60s demographers realized that the world population is growing rapidly. Uh, it has grown to four times from about 1.5 billion in 1900 to 6 billion, uh, in 2000 year, and, of course, approaching, you know, 9 billion today.

But people just counted. They looked at land area, productivity agricultural cultures and where the population is moving, and it was in the middle century, and they they said that we have not enough food to feed six billions of people, and hundreds of millions people, perhaps a billion people will starve. We have there just wasn't their capabilities to feed And there were books such as "About "population explosion" , written professors Stamford, who They said that we just need choose the countries where we we can feed people, and countries where, well , you know, people just will starve.

We just have to give up on them. And they used India as an example. They said that we we won't feed you at all India. We just must surrender. Not even try send food to India. Let people are starving because we we just can't to do this. And this it was so, and that's why they didn't count on green revolution. Rockefeller Foundation found Norman Borlo, this is genetics plants. I, you know, wrestler, wrestler, you know, strong, strong, sturdy, strong guy, never, never Give up, who left?

to Mexico; and for 10 years he spent, you know, difficult, difficult seasons, growing first wheat, then rice and corn, to real understand how we we can maximize productivity, as we we can get the largest harvest from an acre of land. Not nutrition, not taste or fragrance, and productivity. How are we? we can get the biggest harvest? The yield, which essentially means calories, Yes? Calories. Starch. As we can get maximum the amount of starch in wheat, right? And how are we? we can also, you know, uh, maximize this, adding uh-uh artificial pesticides, DDT, which was opened during World War II war, and he knew about DDT, because he worked at DuPont , which discovered DDT.

As we can add artificial, uh, fertilizers, to support this massive growth, because it depletes the soil? AND so on all these bomb factories ammonia remained. AND so he took nitrogen and made nitrogen fertilizers. And then how do we let's add intensive irrigation, because water not enough. And therefore we started deplete aquifers by means of intensive irrigation. And what happened? incredible for him, on his big merit, productivity wheat, rice and corn increased by 1000-2000% per acre. Right? Not twice, not three times, she increased 10-20 times in just a few years.

And here is Mexico, and then India and Pakistan for five years transformed from countries that were on the verge of famine, on the country- food exporters. Five years with the fact that on that the time was so modern rural economy, monoculture wheat, rice, corn and soybeans, and about 60% of our calories come from five species. Yes. We have moved from hunger to obesity because of the number starch in food and the amount of calories that we were served. I have meaning that in America per person per 500 more calories corn than before , and this is madness, and we We eat it.

This saved a billion people from hunger. It was huge victory, right? Obviously, because if we didn't have green revolution, in there would be a mass of us hunger, shock, war and social shock. So, must give it to this proper, but this led to mass losses food biodiversity, which we eat, right? And to dependence on starchy crops , which were derived to receive starch. And then, Mark, the third thing happened, and in these cultures also less protein and less nutritious substances. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. And now we have approximately the 60s.

First there were the 40s and 50s and then calories it was the 50s and 60s. Radical fast changes in diet. Uh, you know, food before 1970 was completely different, than in 1910. Uh, yeah then in the 80s we we have some lift ultra-processed food . This is the third big an event that happened. AND although there is no such thing obvious date, why and how it started, how for vitamins and green revolution, I I think that one of the main things that accelerated it, were recommendations regarding low-calorie diets of 1980.

Yes. Because as soon as we had to clean up fat from foods, companies had to find out how to make all these products so that they had the same taste, mouthfeel and aroma, and remove all the fat that was great for these things, what was great by mistake. And suddenly we needed emulsifiers, stabilizers and other additives, flavorings, dyes, etc., to to make these products. It was not the only reason. Also we had tobacco companies, two the largest tobacco companies, Philip Morris and RJR, who bought almost everyone, they brought almost every brand food products , Morph Crass RG and Aiscoco.

Yes. All of them. Yes. And from that time they sold them. They got rid of assets, so actually more they do not own them. But it was about 20-20 years when they owned them all, and they took those the scientists themselves, those the scientists themselves and teams that worked on cigarettes that call brain addiction. Yes. And they were engaged marketing, aimed at children, and they figured out how we can create products that call addiction, and how we we can promote them among children and create brand loyalty, how did they do it with a man from Marlborough.

AND it was really the worst part all of this. Still this there were good intentions. But I would say that just for a second I'll stop. I would say, that it started before 80 -x, because it seems it was the late 50s-60s years. General Mills spent a lot of time meeting everyone food companies in Minneapolis, on which it was said: "Hey, there is movement for people to "ate real food." THERE ARE Such a woman, Betty, a teacher who tries together with federal consultants with homework questions to teach economics mothers and families to cook, eat and to grow a garden, and they panicked that people will not eat theirs food.

So they are, in essence, made convenient king, and then began to implement into people's culture such as Betty Crocker , which was imaginary personality. Betty Crocker wasn't...me I thought it was Betty. Crocker, but everyone recipes that you you know...add to the bank creamy mushroom "Vesely" soup, add a roll Ritz crackers to your casseroles—it's like to impose highly processed food American cuisine, and then they captured American cuisine. AND I remember how I grew up. in the 60s, we had, you know, television dinner. We had a tango .

We had meat from margarine. We have there was macaroni and cheese , all this filth with which I grew up. And it began before that, both they and it was intentional. AND then there were these two Harvard scientists, uh, who, I think, you are you know, there were leading scientists from food in Harvard in the 60s, what kind of sugar industry actually paid for that they say, what exactly is fat, and not sugar, causes heart disease . And that was it. published in New England Journal of Medicine, and this recently was exposed, but they paid the equivalent approximately 50 thousand, for them to do it.

This couldn't happen now. to happen because rules of ethics, but this it was pretty bad. AND this is a kind of led to the emergence of this whole thing with low fat with, uh, Angel Keys and all his students. It enough was enough badly. I wouldn't say that they, uh, all had good intentions. Well, no, as I said, I think that, you know, I I'm talking about the main ones. trends, you know, and I I cover many of those things you mentioned in the book. However, Mark, there are several important moments.

Uh, you know, firstly, they are not just created program "Betty Betty Crocker", but also began to pay and to infiltrate the council national programs from housekeeping throughout country, in the elderly schools and throughout country. Yes. And "Housekeeping" moved on from trying to teach people to prepare before receive processed packaged foods and prepare them with packages, right? AND yes they actually are captured " "Housekeeping". They literally paid for "Housekeeping" and captured " "Housekeeping" purposefully. So, Of course, I have to food-related industry, but, you know, every industry tries to sell one's own products and to make a profit.

So it's not different for phones, cars or something else, but the worst thing was that when they, I think, started trying to make food so that addictive. But I want to go back to that the point you mentioned fat, so which, as you know, fat people say, What do you know about fat? criticized, so why Did they choose fat? AND by the way, in 1980 they too recommended low sugar content at the same time, but fat really criticized, why him criticized because scientists have found out which nutrient causes scurvy, vitamin C, which causes chickenpox blindness, vitamin A, which causes pellagra (niacin).

And so in the 70s years, when all these diseases were overcome, they They said, "What do we do now?" "What to do?" And they began to study chronic disease. And they started with the heart diseases, because this was the main one cause of death. AND therefore it was made a mistake that wasn't terrible, but it was just by chance or/ or natural, consisted in the fact that they said, "Well, we found out the nutritional substance for these other diseases. What nutrient causes heart palpitations disease? Has to be somewhat nutritious substance", and they chose saturated fats as a nutrient from of this study, and then total fat.

And so for me, Mark , what we learned from The 80s, that's what, you know, if you have simple illness, related to deficiency vitamins, nutritious substance causes or treats this disease. There is an unambiguous correlation. But when in you are complicated chronic diseases that develop over the years, mental health, obesity, diabetes, type 2 diabetes, you know, heart disease , stroke, bad intestinal health, cancer, list is possible continue. Cognitive decline, kidney dysfunction, disease peripheral vessels, intestinal health, all this health liver, all of this depends on food.

None no solution, related to nutrients , isn't it? It's about about the complexity, molecular. It's about about food being medicine. It's about me. I heard what you said, and I borrowed, and now I repeat, food is information. Food is not calories. Food is information for our body. AND so they, they, they mistakenly took that what's so good This trick worked. on nutritious substances, and spread its chronic disease. And this there was a big mistake 1980. This is so important. I I think we have achieved it.

this, in a certain way inadvertently. But how we just reached this, food companies really wanted to keep their part of the stomach. You call it a fraction profit, they call it a fraction stomach, and they don't wanted from this refuse. And now I want to go to topics which, in my opinion, very confusing to people regarding calories, proteins, fats, sugar, and protective products. So let's start with calories. . I read one very important article, it seems it was American magazine clinical food, where are you, by In fact, they said that you too quite clearly presented science: our consumption calories decreased, while obesity has grown.

Can you to deal with this, because we were all taught that consumption calories–this calorie expenditure. If you eat too much –you are gaining weight, if you eat less–you lose weight. For some reason science does not support this, and still the majority doctors, nutritionists and majority professional societies so far adhere to this ideology. Can you you help us understand what the hell take away, is happening? So, in the first part of my book " "Food is medicine" I I'm telling you about how we got here, and in the second part I I am examining diseases.

heart, obesity, microbiome and combine all this with what we You need to eat. And at I explain to you how in each case we started with very simplified history about what we should to do to prevent heart disease, etc. And now what we new science shows, which is truly amazing opens his eyes. And therefore most people began to understand that in case of illness The heart is no longer in the matter. fat, and probably not even in the saturated fat, because everything much more difficult. But, as you said, it also applies to adiposity.

As well as concentration of attention on fats and saturated Fats are terrible simplified when it's about diseases hearts. Concentration attention to calories terribly simplified, when it comes to adiposity. And science is shows, but most people don't know this science. AND so I really I'm going deep into this. advanced science. Therefore, you know, in the 70s, 80s and 90s years, as you know, waist circumference and fat in the body began grow, people ate more, food companies produced more food, and obesity epidemic actually it wasn't. We didn't talk about the obesity epidemic in the 90s -x.

This is not really acknowledged, and then, around the year 2000, this has begun to be recognized. A lot has started to talk about adiposity. Approximately in In 2000, Americans started to pay attention to consumption calories, based on many different indicators, since 2000 it either remained on the spot, or even decreased slightly. So consumption calories decreased or approximately the same, as in 2000. AND physical activity has increased since 2000. Not lot. We as a nation still not enough we do sports, but since 2000 she has not decreased.

She has increased. More people are doing sports. More people attend gyms . More people running marathons. More and more people do yoga, and even if use objective indicators energy costs, such as double branded water, with sometimes in the United States States and Europe physical activity has increased. So, we have paradox: physical activity has increased, calorie intake remained in place or decreased, and obesity sharply has increased since 2000. Then How is this possible? Like ours bodies are breaking laws of thermodynamics ? So eat less, do more exercise sports, although we everyone says that this is It doesn't seem to be working.

We do it. We we do it like population. We eat less and more We do sports. Everyone is paying attention, and we gain weight. AND what actually amazing, uh, what truly amazing, so this is the science of how food affects our biology. And while we are still figuring it out details, Mark, v mainly we we find out what type the food we eat long-term, much more important for weight gain than its calories. Of course, short-term calories have value. You can count calories, to figure out, to reduce them quantity and lose weight.

And that is why any The high-fat diet works. You can to adhere to any what diet and pay attention to your calories. You lose weight during several months. But biology fights back, becomes important, and people gaining weight again. So what, so what? biology? I think that two most interesting things, which we learn is how food affects our energy consumption at rest. Number of calories, which we burn when We do nothing. Energy consumption in at rest. One of the most interesting things- This is thermogenesis. Uh, heat generation body cells.

It it was well understood in bears that fell into hibernation. IN there were a lot of bears brown fat. This type fat, which differs from white, does not retain calories, but burns calories to allocate warm. Imagine that you eat food, it gets into your fat cells, and your fat cells do not keep it. They burn it and make you warmer, right? And so, and so, throughout for a long time it was believed that after childhood in people no brown fat, but science has been around for a while 10 or 15 years clearly showed that we have brown fat.

He is quite active. People from obese have less active brown fat. AND Do you know what activates brown fat? Good food and combined dishes, polyphenols and blueberries, EGCG and green tea, you know, Quercetin from, you know, other plant products. Diet activates thermogenesis. AND actually, uh, diets with low content fat, it seems, oppress thermogenesis, and ketogenic diets type Atkins with high fat content, seems to be activating thermogenesis. The protein activates it. Protein needs squirrel. The protein activates thermogenesis. Absolutely. And that's why we we are not talking about minor effects.

Uh, these studies showed that for the last 20 years on our population levels energy consumption in at rest decreased by 220 calories per day. This is more than enough to explain the epidemic adiposity. Isn't that right? We do everything right, everything we need they say, but ours energy consumption in at rest decreased. Second a critical thing that is not is taken into account in equations energy balance, you know, eat, eat less, move more, this is what our microbiome does. When we eat, we let's share ours calories.

We must to share yours calories. Our the body digests part of the calories, and our microbiome digests part calories. I am not talking. about fiber. People think about fiber. Fiber is not contains for us calories. It only applies to our microbiome. But our microbiome actually evolved, therefore what when we ate minimally processed food in the wild, she was, you know, in to his unharmed natural structure, and you chew it, nuts, beans, fruits or catch animals, and not all calories are digested in stomach and small intestine intestines.

Calories, starch, sugar, protein, fat–all of it would fall into microbiome, and microbiome would digest these calories, collected them and gave us a little back, and most of I would keep it to myself. And in we were wonderful prosperous symbiotic relationship . So, if you have truly traditional minimally processed diet, we digest and we consume about 80% calories, and the microbiome digests and consumes about 20%. So it's about 4 to 1. , if you are healthy microbiome. And if in you are healthy The microbiome, of course.

Yes. In modern, you know, ultra-processed diet, 98% calories consumed by us. AND we are starving our microbiomes. So that's another 20% of calories. So if you eat 2500 calories, we're talking about the difference of 500 calories in quantity calories you digest, compared to yours microbiome. I think what matters is the type the food we consume, quality food—that's what really has a decisive value for long-term obesity control, prevention obesity and obesity treatment. We must to focus on food quality. Because if we let's focus on activation thermogenesis, on feeding our microbiome, then we no need to count calories.

We don't you need to go crazy and follow packaging and its food. You just need to eat healthy food. Yes. Uh, and pay attention to this attention. Yes. Well, that's right. importantly. You know, our friend and colleague David Ludwig spent a very important research, in which he spent clinical test, and he fed people with food, so that they know for sure, What do they eat? These were the same calories, one was with low fat content, and the other— with low content sugar and starch. AND those who adhered low-fat diet, burned approximately 400 calories less per day, consuming that the very number calories.

So he said that it is important not to how much you eat, and what you eat. So, if you turn pay attention to what you eat, you don't need to worry about How much do you eat? And I I notice it myself. I I never count. calories. I eat everything that I want, and I just eat. real food, and your body naturally somehow regulates this. AND it was a great book Fred Pwenza under called "Nutrition", which I read. He talked about it research where they were given to children, and this was in kindergarten at home, it seems, in 20 -s.

Now they couldn't do it research, but it was in kindergarten home in Canada. AND they gave these children , for example, the brain, kidneys, liver and all these strange things that, like do you think you need children, and all these others products. And they, children literally chose and selected products that were the most nutritious, so that to really help them to develop and grow. Like animals make it natural in a way. They have this innate wisdom. They know that you need to eat this plant for these medicines.

They know that you need to eat this plant for this calorie content, you know, uh, starch. And they, they, they hundreds try plants, and they have a few basic food crops that in the main intended for getting calories, but then they eat all these other plants. AND It's quite interesting that they know. We lost our innate wisdom, when it comes to it to food, our innate alarm, because all our hormonal alarm system, ours immune signaling, our alarm system microbiome-all of it looks like a full cacophony biochemical signals which forces us overeat and to be constantly hungry, to violate our metabolic system and violate regulation of our microbiome.

And here it is why did we end up in this difficulty. And all this a thing with calories that are included in, -this just a distraction. I never said a person to lose weight. I never said no patient count calories. AND for my life people literally lost hundreds and hundreds of thousands pounds. And it's simple. thanks to the fact that they they use what, like you they said real food . Yes, you absolutely That's right, Mark. I completely agree with everything you said, and I am a lot of this.

I cover it in the book, and one of the signal molecules you are talking about you say it's GLP-1, and here it is why, that's why, that's why can't we to blame the force will and lack of knowledge, you know, and other things in this problem. We we are talking about biology. We captured our biology, food system captured our biology. So most people encounters innate biology, with which they cannot to fight for their own conscious decisions. Although, of course, you you can start to move in the right direction , but you fight, you swim against the current.

And so, you know, GLP-1 remains in the blood just a few minutes, when it is natural how is it produced intestines in response to food, but its effect continues for hours. AND more and more research shows that this is related to presence metabolites, which, if you are healthy food and healthy microbiome, fall into blood flow, activating the same receptors and the same pathways that GLP-1 in the brain and all over the body. So, the microbiome enhances the impact GLP-1 signaling. About 25% of all signaling molecules, circulating in the blood , come from directly from microbiome, and more about 25% change microbiome.

Therefore, we are talking about 50% of our signaling molecules, which directly are produced or are changing microbiome. This is still one organ that affects our mood, our behavior, our brain, our diet or appetite. And you see it now with GLP1 drugs, about which we can separately to talk about what theirs is role. But I think that one of the most interesting things they have is because for many patients, not for everyone, but for many patients, it not only makes them less hungry, but also changes their food habits preferences, and they can't anymore even tolerate processed foods, which they ate before.

THERE ARE great article in the New York Times magazine, which I wrote about that. some of these patients were in the grocery store store, and patients They say: "I long, you know, cherries. I I crave cabbage and vegetables. I crave fish, you know." I left, went and bought it, you know, Ho Hos or Twinkies, or candy or soda water, and tried, and it tasted like something inappropriate. I have in There was something in my mouth. inappropriate. They They said I have it. wait. And that's why I I think that for those of us, like, you know, you and I, Mark, to whom I think lucky, blessed, you know, good food that has grown in childhood, microbiome, epigenetics, whatever there was no, we had normal GLP-1 signaling.

AND therefore we strive naturally, like those children in an orphanage. We strive for a healthy food that is good for us. This is what we we really want to. AND ultra-processed products have terrible taste. They actually don't have delicious taste. They really have bad taste. And therefore, I think most the nation knows about ultra-processed products and Generation after generations of diseases during the last 30 years, children who are born from sick mothers, and all changes that are happening, changed the alarm system GLP-1. We are actually changed the alarm system GLP1 in the national scale, and this changed the biological people's preferences regarding food.

So what, on in my opinion, really interesting about GLP-1, of course they can be useful for weight loss, but they restore the natural human biology. AND why do I think this important, Mark, yes this is what exists narrated that food industry got us hooked on sugar, salt and fat that we we innately desire ultra-processed food . And so there is no way out. We have genes thriftiness. Simply it's innate biology- get sick if we eat a lot of food. And the fact that, in my opinion, GLP shows us, this is what innate biology human being is that to eat healthy, minimally processed food that actually delicious.

Let me tell you secret about doctors. We are skeptical we treat most additives, and must. Many of them backed by strong ...science, and amazing number of additives actually do not contain ingredients that they promise. So this is It means something when I I tell you that I accept. its daily and I recommend to my patients. From that the moment I reviewed research, everything It became different. Over 150 reviewed research, over 60 patents, excellent Subco trust rating 9.8, over a decade cell development, and The product itself is simple.

One active ingredient, C-15, which strengthens your cells for support healthy aging. Don't believe me. word. Look at science. All this published on discoverc15.com. And that's exactly it. convinced me take it daily. And I think that's exactly it. will convince you too. Go to fatty5.com/heimman today and use the code himman to get 15% discounts on starter 90-day kit subscription. One of questions that I constantly put: " Which is the healthiest? way to increase your energy?" "Here truth. Many people addicted to coffee, to get through the day, but for many it is can become part of problems.

Coffee can contribute to nervousness, energy failures, food cravings, sleep disturbances and increased stress for already overloaded organism. And exactly that's why I've been enjoying Sun Goddess Matcha from Peak. At that time, when the demand for high-quality matcha created a deficit in worldwide, peaked continues to supply one of the cleanest match ceremonial class. It provides calm stance energy thanks to to its natural combination of caffeine and alenin, helping support concentration and performance without roller coasters, what are so many people feel from coffee. And what about me too?

like in the match, so that's what she is full of powerful antioxidants, which support healthy aging, metabolic health and glowing skin. And for even more powerful longevity ritual i adding Peak's Carrera Marine Collagen. Carrera combines in high quality marine collagen, biotin and pearl powder for support skin elasticity, moisturizing, hair, nails and life whole body strength. Together they create simple morning a ritual that will help you feel yourself cheerful today." investing in your long-term health. That independently enjoy the match Sun Goddess and Tea Carrera, visit peaklife.com/heimman and get exclusive 15% discount for life.

This is p i queueife.com/heimman. Well, I think I want to double click on that what did you say, because this it was fast, and I want Let's break this down a bit. First, you said, that 25% of biochemistry chemical metabolites substances, molecules and signaling substances in our blood comes from from our intestines, come from microbiome, from food. Yes. And another 25% are changed by it. And secondly, you know, it is important that people understood that they eat for themselves, but they should also to feed your microbiome.

I call this is feeding your inner garden, because you have mean that if your healthy microbiome, he will help naturally regulate your appetite and weight, among many, many other things, immune function, function mood. I have on almost everything. But what is important in this we don't think about talking about how I feed them. animals? Which prebiotic products Do I need to eat? What are polyphenols, which ones do I need to eat to feed microbiome? Which probiotic products Can I eat? How do I eat more fiber, so feed these insects?

I I mean, this is this is what we're talking about really worth it think. And I think about myself: "Oh, yes, I I will eat artichokes, because I know it's good for my microbiome, or I'm going do it. I I'm going to eat. plantain, because I know, that it is good for me microbiome." "And I, and I I think that really it is important to start learning is not easy to feed yourself, and to feed the little ones beings within you, which are so many determine regarding your health, including your weight.

It perfect statement, Mark, so that we talked about protective products. Because for decades we were supposedly considering fight against chronic diseases due to food as a fight against deprivations. For example, don't eat salt, don't eat fats, don't eat sugar, don't eat delicious food, right? ? You know, you should not eating calories. You should reduce consumption, like food —this is something bad. AND, of course, in products there are negative things, which we need to avoid, and what we should be reduced. This is true. But happens more diseases, Mark, and we quantitatively it is measured.

More diseases occur and arises from insufficient consumption of useful things than excessive consumption of harmful . It's both, but more diseases arises because people don't eat quite useful things. And therefore everything that You just said, you don't They said I was avoiding this or that. You They said I was eager, I am looking and looking for these products that are useful for me. And this The message of the book “Food – "This is medicine." It optimistic message that healthy eating– this is not deprivation something yourself.

It's about about eating delicious food that protects your body, your intestines, which has a wonderful taste. Um, uh, and finally, you know, we need system solutions to everyone could to eat like this in a way. Because now, considering our system, you need to have a lot of things It takes time, knowledge, kitchen equipment; you need to have a lot things to be able to to eat like this in a way. And we need systems where this, this easy, easy way for everyone. But, you know, eat more useful–this really critical importantly.

And, and, and therefore, you know, we could to talk about what are the priorities, but I just wanted to emphasize, how important is it to take advantage of food. I think you have radio. It's like, you know , we focus on the bad side, but It's not important what you are. take away. It is important that what you put. And exactly protective products are so healing and really return illness back. And I have meaning that I was practicing physician . I'm not just podcaster or influencer.

I I actually see patients, and I saw many Asians, and I am amazed when you Do you understand how? use food as medicine, as far as she is powerful. And we we are talking in general about just to eat good food, eat real food, etc. But as a doctor functional medicine, I can tell you what it is very specific. If Are you thinking about medication? as for medicine, there are various drugs for various diseases in in different doses, with different frequency, during different duration. The same It also applies to food.

I I will treat a person. with autoimmune disease to another, I will to treat someone with diabetes in a different way, I I will treat someone. ...with migraine it's different, than I will treat someone from Siberia. It very specific, personalized and depends on what this is exactly what you need to a person. And when you Do you understand how? to use food as the medicine, it's amazing results that people receive about the entire spectrum chronic diseases, not only obesity, heart disease disease or diabetes. So I just I want to say that people don't understand, how powerful it is.

This is not just a metaphor . It's not just beautiful The phrase "food is medicine." This is actually medicine. Food is the most powerful medicine on the planet. They work faster, better and cheaper than any what other medications. And they filter expression genes, your microbiome, your hormones, your chemistry your brain, your metabolism. It literally yours immune system. They regulate everything. And this really important understanding, which most people don't understands. I don't just eat for the sake of energy. You eat, you eat for everything. And it works quickly.

You know, you said that. quickly, but I don't want to, so that it works quickly. So we don't talk. about years, years and years to see advantages, right? You can see changes in the microbiome, energy, mood and sleep for several days. You can see changes in glucose levels and blood pressure for several weeks, as well as in cholesterol levels for several weeks. You can reverse diabetes back, reduce risk heart disease during, you know, months or a year. You are not we are talking about wait for decades to see these advantages.

I spoke with report in the clinic Cleveland, when first time I got there, and I was talking about elimination diets etc., and to me A guy came up, and it seems it was even the patient, and he said: "Hello, Dr. Gayman. Uh, me I just want to say, what I tried, you know, this one elimination diet, where did I go gluten free , dairy products, sugar, ultra-processed products and ate all these protective products. My rheumatoid arthritis passed in 10 days. Or Is this possible? I am like this: well, yes, it happened with you.

You know, here it is. how fast is that is happening." If you know, me I am sure that he has probably was problem related to gluten, which can to cause autoimmune disease. So, if, you know, someone another who had another reason high school diploma, could not recuperate. But in such a in this case it was quite amazing. Okay, so let's go. let's talk about a few things. Let's begin from the overall picture. Ultra-processed food. Now federal the government is in the process of determination, and , maybe when it comes out this podcast, we have there will be a definition.

But, you know, you were part of this. I also tried help with this. And I I think, you know, there is many disputes and confusion. Food industry is very good try, you know, to pierce holes and say, "Well, it's hard here determine". You will discriminate against it. It something like that, and they use all these theses, so that to force people to doubt that we we can determine ultra-processed food. But most people know what it is; Well, you know, it looks like a Twinkie —this is ultra-processed food; no one will be with to argue with this.

So How do you feel about ultra-processed food ? How do you define it? and why is she like this bad? Concept ultra-processed food actually quite new; invented it in 2011 year, you know, 15 years so Carlos Montero, my friend and colleague from Brazil. And his the understanding was because with modern food should be consumed something more than typical nutrients substances and ingredients that we watch because food companies develop products , and if you look at numbers, they seem to be achieve all goals. You know, this is low fat content, low salt content, and this seems normal, but people continue to be sick So he thought about it, put forward hypothesis, or itself processing, except actual nutrients substances, maybe really matter.

And therefore he came up with this concept ultra-processed food . Ultra-processed food does not mean that food is not can be processed. IN it was separate category for processed food products. Therefore, you know, natural processing, natural bread, canned canned goods, you know, beans, fruits in banks, you know, canned tuna . Essentially, you have just food that was slightly processed, which you would do for her conservation or home. Ultra-processed Products are things that you will not see on home kitchen, right? Yes? This is molecular assembly and disassembling molecules food that makes up packaged products.

THERE ARE literally real food ingredients. There are chemical additives. THERE ARE pollutants packaging, often with plastic. THERE ARE agricultural pollutants, because they, as a rule, use the cheapest goods cultures from, you know, industrial farms. Ahem, and that's why he had this hypothesis that perhaps This is important. And what amazing, that's what it is, that only in the last 15 almost a hundred years long-term observational research around the world world, in every in the country where was held research, showed that people who eat more ultra-processed products, have higher indicators of serious chronic diseases, from brain to metabolism, heart, intestines, etc.

. And this is true, even considering essential nutrients substances that we are concerned, such as salt, sugar, saturated fats, etc. Yes. And three randomized controlled research, relatively short-term, from one to eight weeks, too showed that if combine diets with everyone macronutrients: protein, fiber, sugar, everything else, but with one ultra-processed product and one minimally processed, people eat more and are gaining weight, not realizing this. This seems to prove that studies that this at least important for obesity. And that's why I I think that's it. clear, obvious and convincingly that ultra-processed products that I would determined how, you know, essentially, food that you don't you can cook in the kitchen, right?

IN it has additives, composition, recipe and loss of food structure, which you couldn't just like that to make independently natural by. Ultra-processed products, hmm, clearly harmful, and they are definitely need to determine, mark and, probably, to tax. To us need to do many things to solve this problem, but to start them need to mark, so that we know that they represent themselves, and to we could be transparent for the consumer so that he can recognized. AND, of course, in the definition is heterogeneity. Ago ultra-processed yogurt can be better for you than ultra-processed sparkling water.

Ultra-processed chocolate bar could be worse for you than ultra-processed whole grain product. This is true. But I really want to be here. to emphasize that this industry theses that we we will discriminate against certain products. Ultraprocessing is not should replace everything else we know about working with nutrition. We are not must forget that whole grains products are better than refined, and yogurt better than candy, right? wrong? This should be added to our knowledge . We still have to to pay attention to, what foods do you eat, avoid salt and added sugar.

So, as long as we remember that ultraprocessing is not the only rule, which you should to follow, but this another important one principle. Hmm, I think that this is very useful concept. And now from 50 to 60% of calories in food US consumption is ultra-processed food. Yes. And by the way, the next one this indicator the country has about 20%. So we are much we are ahead of the world in consumption ultra-processed food . And this leads to its destruction of our organisms. Well, you hinted that this is a kind of molecular scientific project.

It not food. Food industry takes cash crops, biochemically changes them, splits into molecular components, then gathers them again in products similar to food, but in reality it's not food. If you identify food according to with a dictionary Webster or Oxford dictionary, and I don't absolutely right I'm speaking out, but this something like that that food is what supports health, growth and development organism, whether plant or human. AND these products for is not a food by definition . So ultra-processed products. I don't even I want to name them.

ultra-processed. AND I think most people intuitively know what it is. It unhealthy food. Uh, me too I always say that no unhealthy food exists. Is unhealthy food, but there is food. So I I think that's how we are. and we are. AND it is important that people understood that I have no hard views, but it's not food. You shouldn't do this. eat. Don't eat the stone, you know. Don't eat this thing. This is not food. Good, let's talk about things that actually exist food. Uh, and now in the public world is a few big things, which cause many disputes.

One is protein, the other is seed oils. Uh, we talked a lot about this, but, hmm, let's talk about it protein capture. Now you can find, you know, protein, like Dunkin milkshakes Donuts that are just contain sugar, protein added to them. And I, quoting Sarah Palin, you're going to paint. pig with lipstick, she still a pig. So there is protein everywhere. I went to the supermarket, and there were squirrels Cheerios, and I'm like: what is this? like this? You know, and, so, whether can you help we need to figure out this protein enthusiasm and disputes regarding him, and do we eat too much?

Are we eating? not enough? What do we need? really necessary? THERE ARE -uh, and how do we do it? right? I I'm revealing this. more details, you know, in to his book, and indeed I explain science, telling stories and I make it fun and interesting. But I, You know, I'll do it. quickly. So, I think, there are three things about which we need think about it, right? Um, what does a protein do? How much do you need it for? necessary? And what else? it's included, right?

And what also included with it of the food you eat? Therefore, The first thing he does? This is what protein does. , but one of his main goals are muscle building. Um, you know, again. yes, there are other goals for metabolism and other things, but the main goal, which people think, is muscle building. AND this is certainly true, what if you have a diet with high content protein compared to a diet with low protein content, and you do strength training training, you grow faster muscles and become stronger if you will eat a diet with high protein content compared to a diet with low content squirrel.

That's why bodybuilders, you know, take protein supplements and eating a lot of protein, right? Yes? Because if this works, then it works. But there are a few key moments. Firstly, majority Americans already consume enough squirrel. This is the highest one. level studied in these studies, isn't that right? So average American consumes 16 or 17% calories from protein, which means that half Americans eat more. And in these diet studies with high content protein containing about 16 or 17% calories from protein compared to diets with low content squirrel.

So most Americans already eat, 90% of Americans actually already consume enough protein for regular regular force training for muscle building. We are not talking about bodybuilders, and about ordinary power training. There are certain population groups, especially the younger ones women and women older people who are not eat a lot animal products origin and can not to receive enough protein, but majority Americans are being eaten enough. Second key moment is that, uh if you don't do strength training training, protein will not have a big benefits for muscles.

You don't build muscle and you will not look, you know, like a bodybuilder if you don't do it power training. And so further, and so on, protein, such as sugar, for example, starch, if you eat too much protein, and you have it in your blood circulate amino acids, muscles They say: "They don't like me." needed. You are not trained last a few days, you know, I don't need it. more amino acids." What is happening? Insulin level increases. Counter-regulatory the hormone insulin, that the same hormone that regulates, you know, glucose, increases and converts these amino acids for fat for storage in organism.

Such in order, protein turns into fat. So, if you go outside and consume protein, you know, drinks, protein energy bars, protein shakes and protein unhealthy food, and you don't you train, you just accumulate fat, especially if you eat protein with sugar, such as Dunkin Donut or Starbucks, you know, a drink. And the last thing, in my opinion opinion, there is most important for me as a cardiologist, is that muscles—it's not the only organ in your body. So even if you are doing power training, not get sources protein from products, which will devastate everyone other organs in your body, right?

Think about food source. Food source is important not for the sake of amino acids, but for the sake of full-fledged and incomplete protein , and it's mostly not so important. You you can receive protein from plants or animals, you know, and you you receive mostly all of them the amino acids themselves. What really important, yes is this or is it processed food? Is it minimal? Is it processed or not? Does it contain phenols? Does it contain Is it fiber? Or it has all the others protective properties, which we already talked about Did they talk?

So, in my opinion opinion if you are you going to get protein, think about others health consequences . And if we talk about other consequences for health, except for muscles , then plant sources protein and seafood will be in first place. They are the best for general health, I would say. Then, probably the following there will be yogurt, cheese and fermented products. And then in you will be fresh animal products origin, such as eggs, poultry and red meat, especially regeneratively grown or pastured red meat, which has lower level inflammation.

And the worst thing —this is processed meat, which contains chemicals nitrites, pancakes and other products. Salami , bacon, bolognese and all these low-fat processed meats delicacies that sold in hospitals, medical facilities conferences and in children's lunch boxes, because mothers try do everything right. In fact, it is worst source squirrel. Uh, plus all this junk food, everyone soy isolates protein and unhealthy food that is simply thrown away, or add protein, like protein Pop-Tarts–this the real thing. So, here it is. How would I sum it up? You know, you know, by- First, you probably get enough protein, if eat normal food ration.

You even no need for that to think or receive more. Second, make sure you do strength training training. Everyone should be engaged power training at least three times a week, performing at least 30 minutes strength training. It is especially important with age. And thirdly, remember that you more than just muscles. And so, you know, make sure you you get protein from healthy sources. Yes, it is very important. I I think this is important. I think there is, you know, there are extreme cases, when if you are older, there is anabolic resistance, and you do not use protein is so good, so you may need a little more.

Um, me too I think that with age build muscle becomes more difficult. Although, I found, that, you know, I'm 65, in I was catastrophic back infection, I lost 11 kilograms and was able to increase muscles. I was able to bring them all back, what I didn't know, but I really had to increase consumption protein, for example, cocktails with whey protein, and make sure that I I do strength training. training, and this It was amazing how I even returned to healthier condition, than it was before. Body amazing, and I think what do you just need to provide its correct fuel.

Let's let's talk about oils from seeds for a minute. You know, we are with you. discussed for a long time this, and I was quite far in the extremes, considering them evil and bad. And you know, you very, very loving and with many patients helped I understand what this is. more nuanced conversation. And finally, many problems with seed oils consist in the fact that they are a biomarker bad food. Others in words, they are simply contained in majority ultra-processed products. And exactly from there we get most of our seed oils.

But by themselves they are not there must be, you know, a big problem. So I think maybe could you talk about where we should go to worry about them, and where it shouldn't be. Yes. Most of our I don't mention oils. vegetable oils, I I call them vegetable oils, and I'm talking about this in the book, because actually it's a legume oils, and I just seeds, yes, nuts, you know, seeds, uh, yes fruit, or, you know, our oils are obtained from nuts, seeds and fruits, as well as from legumes, such as soybeans and beans.

Yes. Nuts, seeds, beans and fruits. Yes. And this most useful products among the most useful products in food products, you know, nuts, seeds, beans and fruits. AND so the oils from all these products are amazing. They rich as monounsaturated, so and polyunsaturated fatty acids, which are very useful for health. Uh, they often contain, uh, especially if it's oils first spin, they often contain phenolic compounds and other useful compounds, which are contained in nuts, seeds and oils that dissolve in fats. So first remember that when you are you talking about oil from seeds, you have meaning healthy fats from seeds, which are one of the most useful products on the planet.

And therefore, based on first principles, we we expect them to will really be useful. Why does it exist? concern that oils from seeds are not useful? Uh, I've been thinking a lot. about this, and I think this not from some evil intentions. I think that it comes from people who are looking at scientific and historical facts and make them up together in such a way that This seems logical, but when you actually , you know, pull out card, all card The house seems to be falling, and it doesn't have special meaning.

AND this is, in fact, several things, you know, in- first, vegetable oils, which are industrial were produced during decades, were part hydrogenated. Um, partial hydrogenation, thanks to which we made Crisco and margarine, and many packaged products were partially hydrogenated, you know, soybean oil, part hydrogenated vegetable oils, which contained trans fats, these industrial fats, which were very toxic, and the FDA took 20 years. They needed it. too much time, to remove them, but finally, by 2018 their banned in the USA from food products. They are prohibited in Europe.

They prohibited in in many countries. Not in all countries. To things, they are still in food products . You still can buy Crisco, and things, which are complete hydrogenated fats in food the store, because I I'm checking if it's not forbidden. It's like something not made of grass. This is not recognized as safe, and they must him remove, but it still there. One of the biggest mistakes, what people do about protein, is that, what they should be complicated. The truth is in because sequence more important than perfection.

Simple ways to add protein throughout the day may have of great importance. This is one of the reasons why I keep it handy. vanilla bean broth protein Pale Val from beef herbal fattening. Yes, I am. I add it to my smoothie. But what do I really I like it, that's it. its versatility . You can mix it with coffee or use in pastries whenever you want easy to get protein charge, which really has a good taste. And thanks to sweet and salty Paleo Valley options easy to add bone broth protein for all types everyday meals and drinks.

He made of 100% beef bones herbal fattening and provides a rich on collagen protein, which is easy fits into wholesome way life. Now, when healthy habits simple, you are much you will get them faster follow. And this what was easy for me. Keep simple protein and go paleo valley.com/heimman to save 15% on your first order today. Or Has it ever happened to you? to go to bed sometime exhausted, but your the body just doesn't turns off? Your mind constantly works, your muscles tense, and you don't you can completely relax.

Well, often it can to be reduced to one fundamental nutrients– magnesium. He plays a crucial role in sleep recovery, stress regulation and muscle functions. However many people just don't get it enough. And exactly that's why I've been I recommend Magnesium Breakthrough from Biooptimizers. AND now they introduced Magnesium Breakthrough Advance 10 out of 10 bioavailable forms of magnesium and more in greater quantity elemental magnesium to support sleep, muscle recovery and metabolic health. He became part of mine evening routine, especially while traveling, training and increased stress. Go to biopimizers.com/heimman and use the code heimman to save 15% on your order.

They are completely hydrogenated, so no more contain trans fats. So it is partial hydrogenation led to the emergence trans fats. This really no more. Arc, this partial hydrogenation no more. THERE ARE fully hydrogenated oils about which we can speak. They have no more trans fats. Hmm, so, even at Krisco and others no products trans fats. So this is truth. And it really is made people think, that industrial fats and oils are bad for us because they were like that a long time. Second, the concept that polyunsaturated fatty acids Omega-6 acids are pro-inflammatory, comes out of molecular theories research on animals that was, uh, Bill Lance, whom I knew from whom did you talk to?

his death several decades ago, really great scientist, and this kind biochemistry and zootechnicians now tested on humans, and this is not occurs in people. Omega-6 is not pro-inflammatory in people, it doesn't cause anxiety, so this the second thing that most people don't understand. And thirdly, I think this is return to the idea ultraprocessing, you know to get oil from seeds, you don't you can just squeeze them out, like avocado or olives, or wrong? You can't get a sunflower extra virgin olive oil, because you can't simply use squeezing and low temperature.

To get oils from seeds, needed use high temperature and chemical processes. AND these processes really introduce some traces toxins, right? Some traces of toxins, which are not found in oils first spin. AND yes, due to the presence these traces of toxins, virgin olive oil, probably in average better for you than industrial oils. But this is key moment. Countless research, randomized trial, carefully conducted research, observational research, feeding test again and again showed that industrial oils from the seeds are still very useful for our health. Uh, and that's why similar, I consider them completely normal.

Soybean oil and oil canola, probably the best choice among seed oils, because they contain plant-based omega-3s. They have the highest plant level omega-3 on average. But I think that any what vegetable oil useful for you. So, if you have to choose, go ahead. You know, we we use olive oil first spin, so what I like taste. You know, we we use oil avocado, because I I like the taste. But if we want to fry in deep fat, you know, they don't suitable. We we use rapeseed oil, and this normally.

So you get versions cold pressing , isn't it? Just on better. So, if you you can find and to afford cold versions pressing, they, probably better, but industrial versions are not are harmful to you. AND something like that, I think, you know, as you said, Mark, this is distracting, because they are marker treated food products, and processed food products are harmful in other aspects, but the problem is not seed oils. And I think there's another one moment. I don't know whether are you considering this? to his book, but that's it what I see clinically in Functional Health.

We check the level omega-3 fatty acids everyone. It's simple. part of your standard panel, which probably never was not held in on such a scale. We asked Quest, as if it unheard of. They had to , they literally had to build new for us laboratory, because we spent like this many tests on omega-3. More half of ours members or more have a low index omega-3, that is, they have less omega-3 fatty acids acids than would be enough be. Therefore, the problem maybe not in omega-6. Maybe the problem is in because we have little omega-3 fatty acids, which have anti-inflammatory effect.

So when I pay attention viewed all research in its The book "The Effect" is 10 years old so, I thought, "Oh, this interesting. Actually it's not just about excess omega-6, but also in omega-3 deficiency in our diet." And I I think it's true. key point. AND when are you really look at the data, research where used oils that were only clean omega-6, had a little worse results than research where added omega oils -3. So I think that here there is a subtle point, but I I think he is important.

And I think, what people need make sure that they eat them because they there are no more...they usually not included to our food. Earlier we ate wild products. They are in wild plants. They is in wild animals. They are found in wild fish. You know, we get them, if we eat sardines and similar wild plants things, but they are rare can be obtained. Nuts and seeds contain some of them, but they are bad converted to EPA and DHA, which we needed. So, I think , this is a kind of nuance, if I have anything about it speak.

I think that it is worth concentrating on omega-3 and not so to worry a lot about others. So, all my first studies were focused on omega- 3. I was something on like the omega-3 mafia, you know, with everyone studies that conduct real omega-3 research. AND so you are 100% right. I surprised that even 50%, you know, have acceptable level. It I, I don't remember. exact number, but yes, we have national crisis omega-3 deficiency. IN We really are. Much more important, than, you know, a lot other vitamins, about which we speak.

Uh, and therefore most Americans are not get enough omega-3. And therefore, when people are talking about omega ratio -6 to omega-3, yes, if you are tall omega ratio -6 to omega-3, that's really harmful to you, but that's because omega-3 is low. That's right. Attempt to fix correlation, by changing the omega- 6, will not give anything. You need to change omega-3 content. And this main conclusion for people. Yes, absolutely true. Yes, This is the main conclusion. Okay, we've considered it. a lot of why we got here like us got here.

We considered calories, we looked at the protein, we considered oils from seeds, we are certain fat was considered to some extent. Uh, I want to finish, briefly telling about system changes, because I wrote the book "Fix the Food: how to save our health, ours economy, our communities and our the planet alone "a piece at a time." It was really about connection where food almost touches everything that worries us, and it is the solution for many of the things that We are worried. Uh, you reached the same conclusion, and that's why a significant part of your working as a doctor now focused on politics.

It's like to sit in one's own office. I think: "I I can't cure it. diabetes in its office." Its they treat, you know, on on the farm, in the grocery store in a store, in a restaurant , in the kitchen. Here is where treat diabetes. AND so, uh, we're with you reached one conclusion. And, you know, you spend a lot time, thinking about it, working a lot of time over these political questions, many time actually conducting research, showing how food is like medicine can be tool, medically selected dishes and many more other ideas.

Which the biggest levers influence is needed use, when it comes to policy change? Let's say we have two years left in this administration, and we have the friendliest administration, except all others complications and problems administration. We have the friendliest administration, when it is about food policy . Er, so can you tell about your dreams about change during the next two years, which would be implemented if you could be king for two years? Well, well, we must, we must, I want, I I want to emphasize because you said about a broken system, isn't that right?

Because, you know when you have little children five years with obesity or type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance when you have, when you have you are 94% of Americans, Mark, 94% of adults have suboptimal cardioabolic health: hypertension, blood pressure, glucose, body weight. 94% American adults have optimal cardiometabolic health, right? AND yes, and yes, although, of course you can go out and do everything possible, and everyone must go out and to do everything possible and try eat as much as possible healthier when the system is broken, it It's hard for everyone.

especially for people with low level income, lower education, which are faced with structural racism , physical abilities, others challenges that encounters a lot Americans. Many Americans are fighting with expenses, you know. So, we need fix the system. AND which is really exciting, so this is what is now in We have a solution, and we we can implement them and fix it, and there is no single solution, but there are only a few. THERE ARE just a few things, which we need make. So I I look them up in a book.

I tell stories. about who is really on front line, and you know, who really does exciting things, and what there are obstacles. So I I'll just look at them. list and maybe I will focus only on healthcare, but rural economy, right? Yes? We need fix the village economy, and this perhaps. We can to force farmers to make a profit, you know, offering healthy food. To us needs to be fixed our education, our dietary recommendations, our labeling, you know, everything we do for informing consumers. This is the number two.

We need fix FDA from the point regulation view food safety products, additives, chemicals, marketing, you know, with this, uh, FTC. Uh, we, and the FCC, we need correct food regulation products for things, which we should to regulate regarding food safety related products with chemicals. We we regulate safety food products regarding infectious diseases diseases such as EC coli, but we don't we regulate safety food products regarding chemical security, right? All chemicals in our products. To us need use health care and to make sure that food is available part of the security health, and I I'll come back to this later.

time. I want this. emphasize. Yes, I am. I want to emphasize this. We need use our federal programs food. Almost 150 billions a year goes on SNAP, WICK, school food, food for people elderly, for example, food for preschoolers. Therefore, we need use these expenses, which, you know, mainly go to industry, to make sure that they are going healthy food. To us need to use, uh, nutrition science, and we need, we we need much is needed more investment in National security institutes health, which have to be, uh, leading organization of our countries that focused on health, but not invest in the main the cause of the bad health, namely food, right?

So we really need a new one food rush in nutritional science. And finally, I would like to to see the national program where federal government, states and local authorities will provide priority to innovators and entrepreneurs in food system , from farmers to restaurants, from supply chains to product manufacturers food, which really produce better food. Isn't that right? We did this for railways, for cars, for electronic chips, for energy. We did it for everyone the kinds of things that the government recognized as national priorities for solution.

To us need to do this for products food. We are not we can allow to companies that are trying to achieve success, just to fight with consumer and try reward them and encourage the industry. So, this complex measures taken together, will change our food system in 10 or 20 years. And I I think security Health is for me. one of the most important ones because of the size of the dollars, isn't that right? We we spend now almost five trillion. It's almost six, Mark. This is almost damn, last week there were five.

It incredible. I said about five trillion. Last year it was 5.6, and this year, for estimated, will be close. You know, Dara, I came back and watched the slide show, which he did in 2000, and there was 1.6. Our expenses for healthcare absorb everything else. It's almost like, you know, uh, incomprehensible how many of us we spend on health care. People just can't Imagine this. It so much money that they can't do this imagine. The numbers that I used to do it reality, for average families of four we spend 50,000 dollars per year for health care.

So imagine how much they are spend on food, on transport, even on dwelling. 50,000 per year for average families of four. Every fifth dollar, which passes through our pockets, goes here. Much more than all the money that are spent on artificial intelligence, data centers etc. All the money that the country spends on artificial intelligence and data centers, are about 2% GDP. 2% of our gross internal product is spent on artificial intelligence. We we spend almost 20 %ten times more on healthcare than everything we spend on AI.

And in the federal government almost, uh, 35% of each dollar in the federal government is spent on health care, which has increased significantly. Uh, and yes, and yes, as we use these dollars? And so, and so, you know, you worked we worked on this over this together, Mark. We need to teach doctors to eat, This is happening. To us effective are needed treatment methods are not only prevention, but and treatment of diseases on based on products food. So, if you have diabetes, you can appoint medication, surgery or device if need, but you you can also get a prescription for healthy food.

If in you disease kidney, heart deficiency or cancer, and we found that certain products can help strengthen your chemotherapy, as this was noticed with certain immunotherapies and by other methods treatments that working with intestinal microbiome, you you can get medically adapted food that actually supports your illness. None no reason why food cannot be part of the medical treatment for needed patients under the right conditions as treatment. We are not we are talking about alms. We are not we are talking about use of security health as social software.

We we are talking about medical treatment that is medically indicated. AND we have shown that providing food to people with cardiac insufficiency, depression, diabetes, cardiovascular diseases not only improves them well-being, but also prevents them getting into hospitals, prevents getting into department urgent help. And in some In some cases you even Save money. Even considering the cost of the food you you give to people, you Save money. So I think that security health is real fascinating. And that, about that many people don't know, uh, don't know, this is what it is is happening.

It is happening now in on a large scale. THERE ARE 30 states, Mark, which testing these types food as medical Medicaid intervention, medical program insurance for the poor. VA Hospital for our veterans tests these programs. Indian Service health care tests, you know, these nutrition programs and medicines for tribal communities. Medicare Advantage programs are testing these programs. So I would now appreciate, there is no single number, but I would appreciate it now, that at least 10 billions of dollars is spent on health care on food products.

Now imagine that healthcare is 6 trillion, 6 trillions. So imagine that 3% of this, you know, 4% of that was spent on food, right? We are talking about 240 billions. Our total costs for food now consists of about two trillions. So, if we will spend another 240 billions for health food, it will be huge signal for the market, right? For farmers, for restaurants, for grocery shops. It huge tide dollars to change their practice and make them more profitable. So for me healthcare —this is the biggest lever, and on this I most concentrated.

Yes. And I think that food industry is very well confusing, confuses and introduces misleading us by saying us, that it is difficult, difficult, difficult. You know, we don't have everyone answers. To us need more science. And I just I call it nonsense. We we know enough about what to eat and what not to eat eat to be healthy. We we know enough about the policy that need to be changed to solve the problem. AND if we do this in the next 10-20 years, we we can significantly affect health America.

We can, that is, to influence our crisis mental health, the obesity crisis, ecological crisis, our economic crisis. I mean, that I know for sure that they turned to the governor, who wanted to ban dyes in products food. And I think, that food addicts and people who die, is not the largest problem, but it relevant. And food industry came to him and said: "You Are you going to plant? grandmother to prison for what she is cooking cupcakes with red dye. You really are Do you want to do this?

AND manipulated him and scared him by saying will happen to him consumers, its election. And he called me and said: "What do I need?" do? What is happening? On like: "Well, let me to tell." AND he finally did right. But the pressure, which they did was huge. I have on meaning that the Association consumer brands, I I know for sure, I created it. "war room" to to essentially fight against the policy that needs to be changed. Thing not only that they are doing something unintentionally, and, you know, kindly, and then they, oh, sorry, we don't knew.

They say: " They know, they know, what they do, and they relate to this very consciously." And for I really like it. badly. So, I think, your book "Food is medicine, healing of our body, nourishment of our mind and transformation of our food system "- this is really important book. I think that everyone should get it. She is about what you can to do for yourself, and what we can do for yourself to really change our health and our food system during the next few decades.

And I I hope everyone our dreams will be realized. And honestly saying when I wrote " Food Fix" seven years ago, I never I never dreamed that we we will find ourselves in such a situation the situation in which we are we are now, when do they start things happen, about which I said. I thought that I am just teaching this, and maybe someday after my death everything will change. But we we see changes, and I I think we should society, as to individuals, really need keep moving things in the right way direction for yourself.

AND the choice we make we do it individually , the choice we make we do in elections, — they all have value. So vote with a fork, vote for yours by voice, vote, and let's change system. And what fascinates me, and that's why I have a whole chapter about business innovations, Mark, that's what food sector does terrible things, but it's not like tobacco, where there is one product and a handful of companies. Food sector—from farmers to restaurants, retailers , supermarkets and product manufacturers food. There is wide range participants, and many who is trying to do the right things things and tries produce healthier products.

Farmers are trying produce healthier food. There are manufacturers who are trying produce healthier products, supermarkets trying to highlight and sell yours products and others things. And that's why we need to be presented and celebrate these history and use a policy that provides for them greater demand and helps them and us need apply, you know, punitive and, uh -e, deterrent and other measures for fighting against bad figures. Uh, and that's not it and the industry we we want to destroy. This is it the industry we are in we want to help to change.

And we did it for with the help of energy. We transferred, you know, 25% all the energy in United States on clean energy. Uh, you know, almost 50% some European countries. Uh, and that's why we did it for with the help of energy. We managed to get through from ultra-processed products, and this is yours coal, coal and gas, you know, for the body, and us need to go to clean food, and you know that we can do this make. And that's why I'm very glad. I hope that people will read this book and they will know that eat not only for yourself, but also for yourself, what to do in your community and organization in which they are working.

They will know what to do with what to do, what to tell yours elected officials, what do they want to see in the world. Well, thank you, Dara, for your ten-year anniversary work that helps create a scientific the basis for what we We're doing it now, for you. support, for yours mentoring for me and for you friendship. Oh, that's great. a journey with you, and, um, I really hope for where we are going. So Thank you for everything. To everyone buy the book "Food - "This is medicine." You can find it anywhere, anywhere buy books.

Sincerely Thank you for being with us again. on the podcast, Dar.

Go deeper

• All The Dr. Hyman Show episode guides