Caesar Wasted His 20s. Here’s How He Made Up for It - Alex Petkas

Why is learning about Roman history Why is learning about Roman history useful or instructive at helping us in useful or instructive at helping us in useful or instructive at helping us in the modern world? Why should anybody the modern world? Why should anybody the modern world? Why should anybody care? I think that care? I think that care? I think that so when I was so when I was so when I was starting my podcast, uh I I'd been doing starting my podcast, uh I I'd been doing starting my podcast, uh I I'd been doing it for a couple of months with a kind of it for a couple of months with a kind of it for a couple of months with a kind of hunch on this question and I wasn't hunch on this question and I wasn't hunch on this question and I wasn't really able to articulate it to my really able to articulate it to my really able to articulate it to my satisfaction. Um but it a friend of mine satisfaction. Um but it a friend of mine satisfaction. Um but it a friend of mine a few months in recommended that I read a few months in recommended that I read a few months in recommended that I read this book by Nietze one of his early this book by Nietze one of his early this book by Nietze one of his early books that um and I had read some niche books that um and I had read some niche books that um and I had read some niche before it's called on the advantage and before it's called on the advantage and before it's called on the advantage and disadvantage of history for life and disadvantage of history for life and disadvantage of history for life and niche talks in there about how history niche talks in there about how history niche talks in there about how history can sort of drain the life out of you can sort of drain the life out of you can sort of drain the life out of you and turn you into a kind of crippled and turn you into a kind of crippled and turn you into a kind of crippled um you know shell of a person. It can um you know shell of a person. It can um you know shell of a person. It can kind of uh get you in this state where kind of uh get you in this state where kind of uh get you in this state where you question all of your decisions. Uh you question all of your decisions. Uh you question all of your decisions. Uh it can kind of overload you with it can kind of overload you with it can kind of overload you with knowledge and cause you to retreat into knowledge and cause you to retreat into knowledge and cause you to retreat into the the cloister or the library or you the the cloister or the library or you the the cloister or the library or you know be a kind of opiate for a life that know be a kind of opiate for a life that know be a kind of opiate for a life that is not fulfilling. Um but he says that is not fulfilling. Um but he says that is not fulfilling. Um but he says that and and he quotes Gerta at the beginning and and he quotes Gerta at the beginning and and he quotes Gerta at the beginning of that that book that something like uh of that that book that something like uh of that that book that something like uh Gerta said, "I hate all knowledge that Gerta said, "I hate all knowledge that Gerta said, "I hate all knowledge that does not quicken and enliven me like does not quicken and enliven me like does not quicken and enliven me like away with it." And and history can be away with it." And and history can be away with it." And and history can be very quickening and enlivening. And the very quickening and enlivening. And the very quickening and enlivening. And the way that Nze frames it is um the most way that Nze frames it is um the most way that Nze frames it is um the most like enlivening approach to history is like enlivening approach to history is like enlivening approach to history is embodied by one of his favorite authors, embodied by one of his favorite authors, embodied by one of his favorite authors, Plutarch. this this great ancient Plutarch. this this great ancient Plutarch. this this great ancient philosopher who was also one of philosopher who was also one of philosopher who was also one of history's most widely read and history's most widely read and history's most widely read and entertaining biographers and um and entertaining biographers and um and entertaining biographers and um and Plutarch embodies this mode of reading Plutarch embodies this mode of reading Plutarch embodies this mode of reading history or mode of like approaching history or mode of like approaching history or mode of like approaching any number of subjects really not not any number of subjects really not not any number of subjects really not not just history kings and battles but like just history kings and battles but like just history kings and battles but like art history or like engineering art history or like engineering art history or like engineering um statuary and he calls it monumental um statuary and he calls it monumental um statuary and he calls it monumental the monumental approach to the monumental approach to the monumental approach to where you're looking not so much for where you're looking not so much for where you're looking not so much for precise facts um although the facts kind precise facts um although the facts kind precise facts um although the facts kind of matter for the story you're looking of matter for the story you're looking of matter for the story you're looking for examples of greatness you're and for examples of greatness you're and for examples of greatness you're and you're looking for those examples and you're looking for those examples and you're looking for those examples and this is me interpreting niche a little this is me interpreting niche a little this is me interpreting niche a little bit but I I think of bit but I I think of bit but I I think of history as a kind of history as a kind of history as a kind of uh source for finding your true self for uh source for finding your true self for uh source for finding your true self for like you're kind of looking for like you're kind of looking for like you're kind of looking for yourself. You're looking for somebody yourself. You're looking for somebody yourself. You're looking for somebody who's trying to do something um that is who's trying to do something um that is who's trying to do something um that is the that represents a version of the the that represents a version of the the that represents a version of the greatest thing that you could do with greatest thing that you could do with greatest thing that you could do with your own life. And so it's about like your own life. And so it's about like your own life. And so it's about like finding resonance for uh for finding resonance for uh for finding resonance for uh for achievement. And I I think this is what achievement. And I I think this is what achievement. And I I think this is what the greats tend to get out of history. the greats tend to get out of history. the greats tend to get out of history. There's a lot of stories of this There's a lot of stories of this There's a lot of stories of this happening. U Julius Caesar and the happening. U Julius Caesar and the happening. U Julius Caesar and the statue of Alexander is a famous one. So statue of Alexander is a famous one. So statue of Alexander is a famous one. So I that's what I look to history for and I that's what I look to history for and I that's what I look to history for and it's where I've gotten a lot of my own it's where I've gotten a lot of my own it's where I've gotten a lot of my own inspiration. Um inspiration. Um inspiration. Um and I I think it's about um ultimately and I I think it's about um ultimately and I I think it's about um ultimately about like emulation, imitation. And about like emulation, imitation. And about like emulation, imitation. And there's there's a lot of philosophy there's there's a lot of philosophy there's there's a lot of philosophy around this that we could dig dig into a around this that we could dig dig into a around this that we could dig dig into a little deeper. little deeper. little deeper. >> Isn't it crazy that we think about >> Isn't it crazy that we think about >> Isn't it crazy that we think about history as being one thing or at least history as being one thing or at least history as being one thing or at least the uninformed amongst us think about the uninformed amongst us think about the uninformed amongst us think about history as being one thing? But I found history as being one thing? But I found history as being one thing? But I found out recently that ancient Egypt had out recently that ancient Egypt had out recently that ancient Egypt had their own Egyptologists because Egypt their own Egyptologists because Egypt their own Egyptologists because Egypt was so old. was so old. was so old. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That 2,500 BC was studying 5,000 BC. >> That 2,500 BC was studying 5,000 BC. >> That 2,500 BC was studying 5,000 BC. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So the same thing that people of history >> So the same thing that people of history >> So the same thing that people of history were learning from people from their were learning from people from their were learning from people from their history. history. history. >> Yeah. And uh I uh I studied for a little >> Yeah. And uh I uh I studied for a little >> Yeah. And uh I uh I studied for a little while with this great scholar when I was while with this great scholar when I was while with this great scholar when I was in grad school and he said um he he was in grad school and he said um he he was in grad school and he said um he he was a specialist in the late Roman world a specialist in the late Roman world a specialist in the late Roman world like um 4th century AD and it's uh he like um 4th century AD and it's uh he like um 4th century AD and it's uh he would always say you know late antiquity would always say you know late antiquity would always say you know late antiquity is a very old world and and it is is a very old world and and it is is a very old world and and it is because they have been they are in the because they have been they are in the because they have been they are in the in the 4th century AD they're as far in the 4th century AD they're as far in the 4th century AD they're as far away from Homer as we are from away from Homer as we are from away from Homer as we are from Charlemagne. You know, it's crazy to Charlemagne. You know, it's crazy to Charlemagne. You know, it's crazy to think the world hasn't changed as much think the world hasn't changed as much think the world hasn't changed as much for them as it has for us since that for them as it has for us since that for them as it has for us since that that time period. But even Plutarch, that time period. But even Plutarch, that time period. But even Plutarch, who's a kind of model for for so many who's a kind of model for for so many who's a kind of model for for so many things for me, he's he's a Greek things for me, he's he's a Greek things for me, he's he's a Greek philosopher in living in the Roman philosopher in living in the Roman philosopher in living in the Roman Empire in the reign of um Hadrien Traan. Empire in the reign of um Hadrien Traan. Empire in the reign of um Hadrien Traan. So, you know, Roman peace about 100 AD So, you know, Roman peace about 100 AD So, you know, Roman peace about 100 AD is like his, you know, apogee. He's is like his, you know, apogee. He's is like his, you know, apogee. He's studying and doing the biographies of studying and doing the biographies of studying and doing the biographies of figures that lived um 500, 700 down to figures that lived um 500, 700 down to figures that lived um 500, 700 down to around 100 to 200 years before him. So, around 100 to 200 years before him. So, around 100 to 200 years before him. So, it's all really old and they they it's all really old and they they it's all really old and they they already kind of have this deep already kind of have this deep already kind of have this deep conception of um what history is, what conception of um what history is, what conception of um what history is, what what it's for and and uh and a sense of what it's for and and uh and a sense of what it's for and and uh and a sense of tradition and like you know, I think we tradition and like you know, I think we tradition and like you know, I think we we we can learn a lot from the way that we we can learn a lot from the way that we we can learn a lot from the way that they approach their own history which is they approach their own history which is they approach their own history which is often very different from the way that often very different from the way that often very different from the way that we approach them or we approach our own we approach them or we approach our own we approach them or we approach our own history. history. history. >> What about Julius Caesar? What can we >> What about Julius Caesar? What can we >> What about Julius Caesar? What can we learn about living a good life from him? learn about living a good life from him? learn about living a good life from him? >> Well, to to come back to this example >> Well, to to come back to this example >> Well, to to come back to this example that uh is probably my favorite story that uh is probably my favorite story that uh is probably my favorite story about Caesar and it's a famous story. about Caesar and it's a famous story. about Caesar and it's a famous story. So, you know, people might have heard of So, you know, people might have heard of So, you know, people might have heard of it, but uh maybe they haven't like kind it, but uh maybe they haven't like kind it, but uh maybe they haven't like kind of grasped the true meaning of it. So, of grasped the true meaning of it. So, of grasped the true meaning of it. So, Caesar is a young man in um sort of Caesar is a young man in um sort of Caesar is a young man in um sort of midcareer, early 30s. He's gotten a job midcareer, early 30s. He's gotten a job midcareer, early 30s. He's gotten a job as a quester and um that's like for for as a quester and um that's like for for as a quester and um that's like for for what he gets sent sent off for his tour what he gets sent sent off for his tour what he gets sent sent off for his tour of duty one year to Spain which is a of duty one year to Spain which is a of duty one year to Spain which is a Roman province and a quester is like a Roman province and a quester is like a Roman province and a quester is like a chief of staff the the paper guy for chief of staff the the paper guy for chief of staff the the paper guy for like a Roman governor um a console or a like a Roman governor um a console or a like a Roman governor um a console or a proconsul and at one of one of his proconsul and at one of one of his proconsul and at one of one of his leisure moments Caesar is uh going leisure moments Caesar is uh going leisure moments Caesar is uh going around with his friends in a a temple around with his friends in a a temple around with his friends in a a temple And a temple, it's a temple to Hercules. And a temple, it's a temple to Hercules. And a temple, it's a temple to Hercules. And a temple in antiquity is kind of And a temple in antiquity is kind of And a temple in antiquity is kind of like a museum. That's like where you like a museum. That's like where you like a museum. That's like where you would put great statues and art and um would put great statues and art and um would put great statues and art and um you know, dedications and you know, gold you know, dedications and you know, gold you know, dedications and you know, gold and stuff on the walls. And he's going and stuff on the walls. And he's going and stuff on the walls. And he's going in there, they're like touring the in there, they're like touring the in there, they're like touring the museum as it were, Caesar and his museum as it were, Caesar and his museum as it were, Caesar and his buddies. And you know, his buddies kind buddies. And you know, his buddies kind buddies. And you know, his buddies kind of keep moving on and they realize they of keep moving on and they realize they of keep moving on and they realize they look back Caesar is is not with them. look back Caesar is is not with them. look back Caesar is is not with them. and he's he's standing in front of a and he's he's standing in front of a and he's he's standing in front of a statue of Alexander the Great in this statue of Alexander the Great in this statue of Alexander the Great in this temple of Hercules. And um and they're temple of Hercules. And um and they're temple of Hercules. And um and they're like, "Aar, what are you coming? What like, "Aar, what are you coming? What like, "Aar, what are you coming? What wait a sec? Are you crying?" Cuz he's wait a sec? Are you crying?" Cuz he's wait a sec? Are you crying?" Cuz he's weeping in front of the statue of weeping in front of the statue of weeping in front of the statue of Alexander the Great. And he looks to Alexander the Great. And he looks to Alexander the Great. And he looks to them and he says, "Do you not think it them and he says, "Do you not think it them and he says, "Do you not think it is a matter for tears that when is a matter for tears that when is a matter for tears that when Alexander was my age, he was the ruler Alexander was my age, he was the ruler Alexander was my age, he was the ruler of so many great peoples and yet I have of so many great peoples and yet I have of so many great peoples and yet I have done nothing worthy of great renown?" done nothing worthy of great renown?" done nothing worthy of great renown?" And this is only one of two instances And this is only one of two instances And this is only one of two instances that we know of where Julius Caesar that we know of where Julius Caesar that we know of where Julius Caesar cried. cried. cried. Uh the Romans weren't really into crying Uh the Romans weren't really into crying Uh the Romans weren't really into crying as much as the Greeks. I think they they as much as the Greeks. I think they they as much as the Greeks. I think they they were a little bit more open. I they were were a little bit more open. I they were were a little bit more open. I they were about like us. The Greeks are crying all about like us. The Greeks are crying all about like us. The Greeks are crying all the time. I mean, if you read Homer, you the time. I mean, if you read Homer, you the time. I mean, if you read Homer, you know, Achilles is, you know, balling and know, Achilles is, you know, balling and know, Achilles is, you know, balling and throwing ash on himself when his buddy throwing ash on himself when his buddy throwing ash on himself when his buddy Patrick dies in the Trojan War. Um, and Patrick dies in the Trojan War. Um, and Patrick dies in the Trojan War. Um, and in the Odyssey, it's like it's like in the Odyssey, it's like it's like in the Odyssey, it's like it's like every single time somebody mentions the every single time somebody mentions the every single time somebody mentions the word Troy, like everybody just bursts word Troy, like everybody just bursts word Troy, like everybody just bursts out in tears and you know, his family's out in tears and you know, his family's out in tears and you know, his family's always crying for him because they don't always crying for him because they don't always crying for him because they don't know where he's where he is and Adysius know where he's where he is and Adysius know where he's where he is and Adysius is always crying about everything. But is always crying about everything. But is always crying about everything. But the the Romans were a little bit more the the Romans were a little bit more the the Romans were a little bit more restrained. So, so I think for for restrained. So, so I think for for restrained. So, so I think for for Julius Caesar to cry there, it it's Julius Caesar to cry there, it it's Julius Caesar to cry there, it it's something happened that was really something happened that was really something happened that was really significant for him. And how I read that significant for him. And how I read that significant for him. And how I read that is Caesar, I mean, he's he's already had is Caesar, I mean, he's he's already had is Caesar, I mean, he's he's already had a pretty promising career so far. Um, a pretty promising career so far. Um, a pretty promising career so far. Um, some some great stories already have some some great stories already have some some great stories already have happened from from early in his youth. happened from from early in his youth. happened from from early in his youth. He's uh he's a quester, which is not He's uh he's a quester, which is not He's uh he's a quester, which is not nothing. Um, he's got the Roman Medal of nothing. Um, he's got the Roman Medal of nothing. Um, he's got the Roman Medal of Honor equivalent, is the the Civic Crown Honor equivalent, is the the Civic Crown Honor equivalent, is the the Civic Crown for risking his life to save a fellow for risking his life to save a fellow for risking his life to save a fellow citizen. But he's kind of looking back citizen. But he's kind of looking back citizen. But he's kind of looking back on his 20s and he's thinking, I've just on his 20s and he's thinking, I've just on his 20s and he's thinking, I've just been screwing around the whole time. been screwing around the whole time. been screwing around the whole time. This is what I have to do. He's he's This is what I have to do. He's he's This is what I have to do. He's he's like he's realizing in this moment what like he's realizing in this moment what like he's realizing in this moment what what his destiny is or or if you want to what his destiny is or or if you want to what his destiny is or or if you want to not use the word destiny, he's realizing not use the word destiny, he's realizing not use the word destiny, he's realizing like what he should be doing. And and like what he should be doing. And and like what he should be doing. And and that's the moment where it it kind of that's the moment where it it kind of that's the moment where it it kind of hits him. painful to realize that you hits him. painful to realize that you hits him. painful to realize that you haven't been living the life to the to haven't been living the life to the to haven't been living the life to the to the full extent of what you should be the full extent of what you should be the full extent of what you should be doing and are capable of doing. doing and are capable of doing. doing and are capable of doing. >> And I think that's a that's a really >> And I think that's a that's a really >> And I think that's a that's a really powerful moment for um and it kind of powerful moment for um and it kind of powerful moment for um and it kind of like encapsulates like encapsulates like encapsulates >> how is what why I think it's uh >> how is what why I think it's uh >> how is what why I think it's uh resonates with me so much. That's how we resonates with me so much. That's how we resonates with me so much. That's how we need to be approaching history. That's need to be approaching history. That's need to be approaching history. That's how we need to be approaching the how we need to be approaching the how we need to be approaching the greats. like you you need to be looking greats. like you you need to be looking greats. like you you need to be looking for that moment of resonance with for that moment of resonance with for that moment of resonance with somebody that just like cracks you open somebody that just like cracks you open somebody that just like cracks you open and like ah I realize it now personally and like ah I realize it now personally and like ah I realize it now personally I don't have that with Julius Caesar I don't have that with Julius Caesar I don't have that with Julius Caesar himself you know I'm not trying to do himself you know I'm not trying to do himself you know I'm not trying to do the Julius Caesar thing and it's not the Julius Caesar thing and it's not the Julius Caesar thing and it's not every Roman who's great who had that every Roman who's great who had that every Roman who's great who had that kind of thing with Alexander the Great I kind of thing with Alexander the Great I kind of thing with Alexander the Great I mean that that says a lot about a man mean that that says a lot about a man mean that that says a lot about a man that he really sees himself as like that he really sees himself as like that he really sees himself as like somebody who needs to emulate Alexander somebody who needs to emulate Alexander somebody who needs to emulate Alexander um but but you You can definitely learn um but but you You can definitely learn um but but you You can definitely learn from that lesson of like trying to find from that lesson of like trying to find from that lesson of like trying to find that that unique resonance with somebody that that unique resonance with somebody that that unique resonance with somebody who kind of tells you what you're who kind of tells you what you're who kind of tells you what you're supposed to be like. And I think that supposed to be like. And I think that supposed to be like. And I think that Caesar had this like depth to him that Caesar had this like depth to him that Caesar had this like depth to him that that illust illustrates also. that illust illustrates also. that illust illustrates also. >> What does that tell us about Caesar's >> What does that tell us about Caesar's >> What does that tell us about Caesar's ambition? Level of ambition. ambition? Level of ambition. ambition? Level of ambition. >> Yeah. Well, off off the charts for sure. >> Yeah. Well, off off the charts for sure. >> Yeah. Well, off off the charts for sure. But I think that you can also But I think that you can also But I think that you can also understand a lot about Caesar's ambition understand a lot about Caesar's ambition understand a lot about Caesar's ambition from looking earlier in his childhood. from looking earlier in his childhood. from looking earlier in his childhood. So, um, and and there's a great story on So, um, and and there's a great story on So, um, and and there's a great story on this, but I kind of kind of give the this, but I kind of kind of give the this, but I kind of kind of give the context like laying out, context like laying out, context like laying out, um, Caesar's world. So, he grows up in um, Caesar's world. So, he grows up in um, Caesar's world. So, he grows up in Rome in and he's from this great family, Rome in and he's from this great family, Rome in and he's from this great family, you know, on the one hand. So, he's got you know, on the one hand. So, he's got you know, on the one hand. So, he's got on his mom's side, the the the Anki on his mom's side, the the the Anki on his mom's side, the the the Anki Marquee go back to the King Ankas Marquee go back to the King Ankas Marquee go back to the King Ankas Marius. It's the Marquee family. They go Marius. It's the Marquee family. They go Marius. It's the Marquee family. They go back to King Ankus Marcus. this quai back to King Ankus Marcus. this quai back to King Ankus Marcus. this quai mythical Roman king from the 6th century mythical Roman king from the 6th century mythical Roman king from the 6th century BC, you know, 500 years of history on BC, you know, 500 years of history on BC, you know, 500 years of history on his mom's side. And then on his dad's his mom's side. And then on his dad's his mom's side. And then on his dad's side, they're they're the Julius clan. side, they're they're the Julius clan. side, they're they're the Julius clan. And they go all the way back to the And they go all the way back to the And they go all the way back to the mythic founder of Rome, Anias, who was mythic founder of Rome, Anias, who was mythic founder of Rome, Anias, who was the son of Venus and immortal. And so the son of Venus and immortal. And so the son of Venus and immortal. And so they, you know, 1,200 years on that they, you know, 1,200 years on that they, you know, 1,200 years on that side. So they've got some real blue side. So they've got some real blue side. So they've got some real blue blood, blood, blood, but they're kind of they haven't really but they're kind of they haven't really but they're kind of they haven't really accomplished a lot in the past few accomplished a lot in the past few accomplished a lot in the past few generations. They're not one of the like generations. They're not one of the like generations. They're not one of the like power elite families. Um uh like the power elite families. Um uh like the power elite families. Um uh like the Matelli or the Cornel. There's there's Matelli or the Cornel. There's there's Matelli or the Cornel. There's there's like other families that are a lot more like other families that are a lot more like other families that are a lot more prominent than the Julius family. They prominent than the Julius family. They prominent than the Julius family. They live in a kind of seedy part of Rome, live in a kind of seedy part of Rome, live in a kind of seedy part of Rome, the Sabura. And he grows up in this kind the Sabura. And he grows up in this kind the Sabura. And he grows up in this kind of dirty part of town. I mean, I know of dirty part of town. I mean, I know of dirty part of town. I mean, I know you worked in the kind of event and the you worked in the kind of event and the you worked in the kind of event and the the nightclub world like Caesar would the nightclub world like Caesar would the nightclub world like Caesar would have been like a kid hanging out in the have been like a kid hanging out in the have been like a kid hanging out in the street playing dice with his buddies street playing dice with his buddies street playing dice with his buddies outside of outside of a bar. This the outside of outside of a bar. This the outside of outside of a bar. This the Saburo was a kind of place that you you Saburo was a kind of place that you you Saburo was a kind of place that you you didn't really want to live if you had a didn't really want to live if you had a didn't really want to live if you had a better option, but you know, every young better option, but you know, every young better option, but you know, every young aristocrat on a summer night like to go aristocrat on a summer night like to go aristocrat on a summer night like to go visit. there's like brothel and and so visit. there's like brothel and and so visit. there's like brothel and and so he's uh in contact with the the the he's uh in contact with the the the he's uh in contact with the the the underbelly of Rome and his family has is underbelly of Rome and his family has is underbelly of Rome and his family has is aligned on the what you call the Roman aligned on the what you call the Roman aligned on the what you call the Roman left uh of politics. There's there's two left uh of politics. There's there's two left uh of politics. There's there's two main you can call them factions or kind main you can call them factions or kind main you can call them factions or kind of political styles, but there's two of political styles, but there's two of political styles, but there's two kind of main poles in Roman politics. kind of main poles in Roman politics. kind of main poles in Roman politics. And um on the one hand, there are the And um on the one hand, there are the And um on the one hand, there are the optimists, the the kind of oligarchic or optimists, the the kind of oligarchic or optimists, the the kind of oligarchic or aristocratic faction um who stand for aristocratic faction um who stand for aristocratic faction um who stand for the ancient prerogatives of the Senate the ancient prerogatives of the Senate the ancient prerogatives of the Senate and the you know the tradition. They and the you know the tradition. They and the you know the tradition. They they tend to monopolize the priesthoods. they tend to monopolize the priesthoods. they tend to monopolize the priesthoods. They're all about what family are you They're all about what family are you They're all about what family are you from? Who are you marrying? and uh so from? Who are you marrying? and uh so from? Who are you marrying? and uh so and so's great great-grandfather was a and so's great great-grandfather was a and so's great great-grandfather was a console. Who are you? That whole console. Who are you? That whole console. Who are you? That whole attitude and they're they're very much attitude and they're they're very much attitude and they're they're very much for the status quo. for the status quo. for the status quo. And on the other hand, you have the And on the other hand, you have the And on the other hand, you have the populists who are about things like land populists who are about things like land populists who are about things like land reform, redistributing public lands. Uh reform, redistributing public lands. Uh reform, redistributing public lands. Uh they're really into uh merit and they're really into uh merit and they're really into uh merit and promoting talented outsiders. And and promoting talented outsiders. And and promoting talented outsiders. And and Caesar has really strong connections Caesar has really strong connections Caesar has really strong connections there because his there because his there because his um his aunt is married to one of the um his aunt is married to one of the um his aunt is married to one of the greatest populist figureheads in Roman greatest populist figureheads in Roman greatest populist figureheads in Roman history, this guy Gas Marius, who was an history, this guy Gas Marius, who was an history, this guy Gas Marius, who was an outsider himself to the Roman power outsider himself to the Roman power outsider himself to the Roman power elite, but kind of forced his way in by elite, but kind of forced his way in by elite, but kind of forced his way in by talent. He wins a number of wars for talent. He wins a number of wars for talent. He wins a number of wars for them. And um and so he he grows up with them. And um and so he he grows up with them. And um and so he he grows up with gas Marius as his uncle. uh and Marius gas Marius as his uncle. uh and Marius gas Marius as his uncle. uh and Marius you know made a big fortune in his you know made a big fortune in his you know made a big fortune in his career like from starting very low and career like from starting very low and career like from starting very low and then he kind of married into then he kind of married into then he kind of married into respectability which Caesar's family respectability which Caesar's family respectability which Caesar's family represents kind of poor respectability represents kind of poor respectability represents kind of poor respectability and and then um and and then um and and then um there is uh Caesar loses his dad when he there is uh Caesar loses his dad when he there is uh Caesar loses his dad when he uh when he's a teenager his dad like uh when he's a teenager his dad like uh when he's a teenager his dad like drops dead tying his shoes one day kind drops dead tying his shoes one day kind drops dead tying his shoes one day kind of a freak thing uh maybe had a heart of a freak thing uh maybe had a heart of a freak thing uh maybe had a heart attack and maybe Caesar's probably early attack and maybe Caesar's probably early attack and maybe Caesar's probably early teens at that point. And his dad teens at that point. And his dad teens at that point. And his dad actually looked like he was on a good actually looked like he was on a good actually looked like he was on a good track. He he been a preacher, hadn't track. He he been a preacher, hadn't track. He he been a preacher, hadn't been console. Preer is the second been console. Preer is the second been console. Preer is the second highest office. Console's the highest. highest office. Console's the highest. highest office. Console's the highest. And he he died just before he got a shot And he he died just before he got a shot And he he died just before he got a shot to run for console. Um so Caesar like to run for console. Um so Caesar like to run for console. Um so Caesar like had a f father figure but lost him. And had a f father figure but lost him. And had a f father figure but lost him. And then um so I I I imagine Gas Marius then um so I I I imagine Gas Marius then um so I I I imagine Gas Marius might have been kind of like a father might have been kind of like a father might have been kind of like a father figure to to Julius Caesar. I we don't figure to to Julius Caesar. I we don't figure to to Julius Caesar. I we don't know a lot about that. But um what what know a lot about that. But um what what know a lot about that. But um what what hap what ended up happening is hap what ended up happening is hap what ended up happening is Caesar Caesar Caesar um promising young man um promising young man um promising young man 16 years old. He is he he gets u a great 16 years old. He is he he gets u a great 16 years old. He is he he gets u a great opportunity to marry the daughter of one opportunity to marry the daughter of one opportunity to marry the daughter of one of the most powerful men in Rome who is of the most powerful men in Rome who is of the most powerful men in Rome who is Marius's colleague his associate this Marius's colleague his associate this Marius's colleague his associate this guy SA who uh has a run for he he's he's guy SA who uh has a run for he he's he's guy SA who uh has a run for he he's he's consil for like 3 years and also a consil for like 3 years and also a consil for like 3 years and also a populist also kind of against the populist also kind of against the populist also kind of against the oligarchic uh establishment and right oligarchic uh establishment and right oligarchic uh establishment and right around the time that this is happening around the time that this is happening around the time that this is happening this incredibly bloody war breaks about this incredibly bloody war breaks about this incredibly bloody war breaks about civil war between the optimists and the civil war between the optimists and the civil war between the optimists and the populists and it's very complicated. We populists and it's very complicated. We populists and it's very complicated. We go in the details if you want but go in the details if you want but go in the details if you want but essentially Marius dies toward the essentially Marius dies toward the essentially Marius dies toward the beginning of the war. Cinned dies a beginning of the war. Cinned dies a beginning of the war. Cinned dies a little a little further in little a little further in little a little further in the the optimates the the optimates the the optimates led by a man named Lucius Cornelius led by a man named Lucius Cornelius led by a man named Lucius Cornelius Sulla win this war just like blood Sulla win this war just like blood Sulla win this war just like blood running through the the whole like every running through the the whole like every running through the the whole like every valley in Italy. I mean, tens of valley in Italy. I mean, tens of valley in Italy. I mean, tens of thousands, maybe more than a hundred thousands, maybe more than a hundred thousands, maybe more than a hundred thousand Roman citizens, Roman allies thousand Roman citizens, Roman allies thousand Roman citizens, Roman allies killed. It's it's just horrific. It's killed. It's it's just horrific. It's killed. It's it's just horrific. It's it's I probably worse than than the it's I probably worse than than the it's I probably worse than than the civil war that he ends up fighting later civil war that he ends up fighting later civil war that he ends up fighting later in his life. But um so Caesar is married in his life. But um so Caesar is married in his life. But um so Caesar is married to Sa's daughter and when Sullah comes to Sa's daughter and when Sullah comes to Sa's daughter and when Sullah comes like marches into Rome after winning the like marches into Rome after winning the like marches into Rome after winning the civil war, he was you know came like civil war, he was you know came like civil war, he was you know came like invaded Italy from a foreign campaign. invaded Italy from a foreign campaign. invaded Italy from a foreign campaign. He comes into Rome and he gets elected He comes into Rome and he gets elected He comes into Rome and he gets elected dictator. He kind of forces himself to dictator. He kind of forces himself to dictator. He kind of forces himself to be elected dictator which is like a be elected dictator which is like a be elected dictator which is like a temporary office at Rome and he's uh temporary office at Rome and he's uh temporary office at Rome and he's uh he's kind of mopping up. He um does he's kind of mopping up. He um does he's kind of mopping up. He um does famously the this campaign called the famously the this campaign called the famously the this campaign called the prescriptions which is basically a purge prescriptions which is basically a purge prescriptions which is basically a purge of all of his enemies. It's never been of all of his enemies. It's never been of all of his enemies. It's never been done in Roman history. They'd never had done in Roman history. They'd never had done in Roman history. They'd never had a civil war before. for 400 years they'd a civil war before. for 400 years they'd a civil war before. for 400 years they'd had civic more more or less civic had civic more more or less civic had civic more more or less civic concord and um there had been some concord and um there had been some concord and um there had been some incidents uh in the previous generation incidents uh in the previous generation incidents uh in the previous generation but nothing like this. Solah posts the but nothing like this. Solah posts the but nothing like this. Solah posts the names of all the people from the names of all the people from the names of all the people from the leadership classes of Rome. The rich leadership classes of Rome. The rich leadership classes of Rome. The rich some of the richest men, the most some of the richest men, the most some of the richest men, the most influential, well-connected grand family influential, well-connected grand family influential, well-connected grand family men from the populist faction that he men from the populist faction that he men from the populist faction that he blames for um picking this fight and blames for um picking this fight and blames for um picking this fight and starting the war. And if your name is on starting the war. And if your name is on starting the war. And if your name is on that list in the procriptions, you know, that list in the procriptions, you know, that list in the procriptions, you know, he posts them in the Senate. You have a he posts them in the Senate. You have a he posts them in the Senate. You have a bounty on your head and your entire bounty on your head and your entire bounty on your head and your entire estate is confiscated, state property estate is confiscated, state property estate is confiscated, state property now, and there's more than a thousand now, and there's more than a thousand now, and there's more than a thousand names that end up getting put up in names that end up getting put up in names that end up getting put up in those prescription lists. So, heads those prescription lists. So, heads those prescription lists. So, heads roll. People are tossing heads in front roll. People are tossing heads in front roll. People are tossing heads in front of the feet of Saul as he's sitting in of the feet of Saul as he's sitting in of the feet of Saul as he's sitting in his like consularor throne. Uh they're his like consularor throne. Uh they're his like consularor throne. Uh they're collecting their reward. Um it's a it's collecting their reward. Um it's a it's collecting their reward. Um it's a it's just this reign of terror for a few just this reign of terror for a few just this reign of terror for a few months. And Salah is also calling other months. And Salah is also calling other months. And Salah is also calling other kinds of shots. I mean he's rewriting kinds of shots. I mean he's rewriting kinds of shots. I mean he's rewriting the constitution as a dictator. He's the constitution as a dictator. He's the constitution as a dictator. He's trying to make sure that the populists trying to make sure that the populists trying to make sure that the populists could just keep their head underwater could just keep their head underwater could just keep their head underwater for generations that nothing like this for generations that nothing like this for generations that nothing like this war could ever happen again because his war could ever happen again because his war could ever happen again because his enemies and the kind of principles that enemies and the kind of principles that enemies and the kind of principles that they represent will just be so hamstrung they represent will just be so hamstrung they represent will just be so hamstrung and handcuffed. But uh one of the things and handcuffed. But uh one of the things and handcuffed. But uh one of the things that he does is he approaches that he does is he approaches that he does is he approaches younger men in Rome and kind of tests younger men in Rome and kind of tests younger men in Rome and kind of tests their loyalty by making them get their loyalty by making them get their loyalty by making them get divorces. divorces. divorces. Pompy is another promising young man Pompy is another promising young man Pompy is another promising young man around this time who ends up being around this time who ends up being around this time who ends up being Caesar's friend and rival. He's a few Caesar's friend and rival. He's a few Caesar's friend and rival. He's a few years older and he goes to Pompy Solah years older and he goes to Pompy Solah years older and he goes to Pompy Solah and he says, "Pompy, you know, you've and he says, "Pompy, you know, you've and he says, "Pompy, you know, you've been a loyal servant. Uh you brought me been a loyal servant. Uh you brought me been a loyal servant. Uh you brought me a legion in the civil war. you you you a legion in the civil war. you you you a legion in the civil war. you you you sided with me early. Uh, I'm very sided with me early. Uh, I'm very sided with me early. Uh, I'm very grateful for that, but you know what? grateful for that, but you know what? grateful for that, but you know what? You're married to the wrong woman. I You're married to the wrong woman. I You're married to the wrong woman. I have a better one for you." And Pompy have a better one for you." And Pompy have a better one for you." And Pompy says, "Yes, sir." And he and he divorces says, "Yes, sir." And he and he divorces says, "Yes, sir." And he and he divorces his his former wife and he marries his his former wife and he marries his his former wife and he marries whoever Solah picks for him. And then whoever Solah picks for him. And then whoever Solah picks for him. And then Salah Salah Salah remember this is a guy who, okay, a remember this is a guy who, okay, a remember this is a guy who, okay, a subordinate of Salah, a friend of his, subordinate of Salah, a friend of his, subordinate of Salah, a friend of his, wanted to run for console after Salah wanted to run for console after Salah wanted to run for console after Salah becomes the dictator. You know, there's becomes the dictator. You know, there's becomes the dictator. You know, there's still elections going on. on. There's still elections going on. on. There's still elections going on. on. There's still offices um that need filling. This still offices um that need filling. This still offices um that need filling. This guy comes to Solah and he says, "Hey, guy comes to Solah and he says, "Hey, guy comes to Solah and he says, "Hey, Salah, I want to you know, we won the Salah, I want to you know, we won the Salah, I want to you know, we won the war. I I I want to run for console." And war. I I I want to run for console." And war. I I I want to run for console." And Solah's like um you know, you haven't Solah's like um you know, you haven't Solah's like um you know, you haven't even been preer. This this would this even been preer. This this would this even been preer. This this would this would be a bad look. I don't think this would be a bad look. I don't think this would be a bad look. I don't think this is your year. You should stand down. And is your year. You should stand down. And is your year. You should stand down. And the guy says, "Thank you for your the guy says, "Thank you for your the guy says, "Thank you for your advice. Uh I'm going to run anyway." And advice. Uh I'm going to run anyway." And advice. Uh I'm going to run anyway." And so one day, Saul is sitting in uh in so one day, Saul is sitting in uh in so one day, Saul is sitting in uh in like one of his cural chairs there in like one of his cural chairs there in like one of his cural chairs there in one of the public buildings, looking out one of the public buildings, looking out one of the public buildings, looking out over the forum and watches as the men over the forum and watches as the men over the forum and watches as the men that he ordered to do the deed go up to that he ordered to do the deed go up to that he ordered to do the deed go up to this guy and murder him in broad this guy and murder him in broad this guy and murder him in broad daylight in the forum daylight in the forum daylight in the forum because he he defied Sullah and he tried because he he defied Sullah and he tried because he he defied Sullah and he tried to, you know, run for office when Sullah to, you know, run for office when Sullah to, you know, run for office when Sullah said no. So this is the kind of guy said no. So this is the kind of guy said no. So this is the kind of guy you're dealing with. Now Sullah comes to you're dealing with. Now Sullah comes to you're dealing with. Now Sullah comes to Caesar. Caesar's 18 years old and he Caesar. Caesar's 18 years old and he Caesar. Caesar's 18 years old and he says, "Caesar, says, "Caesar, says, "Caesar, you're married to the daughter of uh one you're married to the daughter of uh one you're married to the daughter of uh one of my late worst enemies, Sa." Uh he's, of my late worst enemies, Sa." Uh he's, of my late worst enemies, Sa." Uh he's, you know, and you can understand his you know, and you can understand his you know, and you can understand his perspective. You know, SA was a symbol perspective. You know, SA was a symbol perspective. You know, SA was a symbol of everything that Solah wanted to of everything that Solah wanted to of everything that Solah wanted to crush. crush. crush. And um and he says, "You need to divorce And um and he says, "You need to divorce And um and he says, "You need to divorce her." her." her." And Caesar says, "You know, thank you And Caesar says, "You know, thank you And Caesar says, "You know, thank you very much for your advice. Um you know, very much for your advice. Um you know, very much for your advice. Um you know, go screw yourself." and he and he they go screw yourself." and he and he they go screw yourself." and he and he they skips town. He says no. And so so Caesar skips town. He says no. And so so Caesar skips town. He says no. And so so Caesar is running is running is running through the mountains of central Italy. through the mountains of central Italy. through the mountains of central Italy. He's on the run. Sullah's got guys He's on the run. Sullah's got guys He's on the run. Sullah's got guys hunting him down. Uh this goes on for hunting him down. Uh this goes on for hunting him down. Uh this goes on for several weeks. Caesar gets dysentery and several weeks. Caesar gets dysentery and several weeks. Caesar gets dysentery and you know Oregon Trail style and he just you know Oregon Trail style and he just you know Oregon Trail style and he just uh he gets caught and manages to bribe uh he gets caught and manages to bribe uh he gets caught and manages to bribe the people who catch him to not bring the people who catch him to not bring the people who catch him to not bring him back to Sullah but to bring him back him back to Sullah but to bring him back him back to Sullah but to bring him back to his his family to like his relatives to his his family to like his relatives to his his family to like his relatives and friends and then they go and they and friends and then they go and they and friends and then they go and they they go and plead with the dictator they go and plead with the dictator they go and plead with the dictator Sullah gez you know uh this was really Sullah gez you know uh this was really Sullah gez you know uh this was really out of line on the part of Caesar he's a out of line on the part of Caesar he's a out of line on the part of Caesar he's a young hotthead you understand um you young hotthead you understand um you young hotthead you understand um you know he'll be know he'll be know he'll be We'll we'll make sure that he behaves We'll we'll make sure that he behaves We'll we'll make sure that he behaves himself. He's only a kid. Uh don't himself. He's only a kid. Uh don't himself. He's only a kid. Uh don't worry. Please can you please spare him? worry. Please can you please spare him? worry. Please can you please spare him? You know, cuz Sullah wants to execute You know, cuz Sullah wants to execute You know, cuz Sullah wants to execute him. Obviously, I mean, he's got an him. Obviously, I mean, he's got an him. Obviously, I mean, he's got an image to uphold, right? Like, and Solah image to uphold, right? Like, and Solah image to uphold, right? Like, and Solah relents and he says, "Very well, but you relents and he says, "Very well, but you relents and he says, "Very well, but you are fools if you don't see many Amarius are fools if you don't see many Amarius are fools if you don't see many Amarius in that boy." in that boy." in that boy." And so, uh, Caesar gets off. Now, why And so, uh, Caesar gets off. Now, why And so, uh, Caesar gets off. Now, why did he do that? Like what does that say did he do that? Like what does that say did he do that? Like what does that say about him and and what he's got in mind about him and and what he's got in mind about him and and what he's got in mind for his future? All right, one for his future? All right, one for his future? All right, one explanation is Caesar's a showman. He's explanation is Caesar's a showman. He's explanation is Caesar's a showman. He's a natural showman. He knows if he can a natural showman. He knows if he can a natural showman. He knows if he can defy the dictator and get away with it, defy the dictator and get away with it, defy the dictator and get away with it, people are going to be talking about people are going to be talking about people are going to be talking about this for his entire life, they're going this for his entire life, they're going this for his entire life, they're going to talk about it all around town. And to talk about it all around town. And to talk about it all around town. And sure enough, you know, we're still sure enough, you know, we're still sure enough, you know, we're still talking about it today. Like it worked talking about it today. Like it worked talking about it today. Like it worked as a as a kind of PR stunt. On the other as a as a kind of PR stunt. On the other as a as a kind of PR stunt. On the other hand, hand, hand, he knows that um he knows that um he knows that um this girl this girl this girl is is a symbol of of his um all of his is is a symbol of of his um all of his is is a symbol of of his um all of his populist connections that have mostly populist connections that have mostly populist connections that have mostly been decapitated been decapitated been decapitated >> like everything that Caesar had had like >> like everything that Caesar had had like >> like everything that Caesar had had like aspired to you know think you think as a aspired to you know think you think as a aspired to you know think you think as a teenager you know you got a great career teenager you know you got a great career teenager you know you got a great career ahead of you know you're you know the ahead of you know you're you know the ahead of you know you're you know the top guys in this party like the the top guys in this party like the the top guys in this party like the the trajectory is clear and it's all just trajectory is clear and it's all just trajectory is clear and it's all just been like liquidated, turned to blood, been like liquidated, turned to blood, been like liquidated, turned to blood, and she's like one of the last living and she's like one of the last living and she's like one of the last living symbols of that. And he knows that if he symbols of that. And he knows that if he symbols of that. And he knows that if he um he knows the kind of like he's kind um he knows the kind of like he's kind um he knows the kind of like he's kind of calling his shot in a way. He's he's of calling his shot in a way. He's he's of calling his shot in a way. He's he's he's he's seeing a a career for himself he's he's seeing a a career for himself he's he's seeing a a career for himself on the populist side, on the kind of uh on the populist side, on the kind of uh on the populist side, on the kind of uh revolutionary, if you will, side of revolutionary, if you will, side of revolutionary, if you will, side of Roman politics. and he's sort of Roman politics. and he's sort of Roman politics. and he's sort of building building a career with this building building a career with this building building a career with this clairvoyance about where he's headed for clairvoyance about where he's headed for clairvoyance about where he's headed for the rest of his life already there at the rest of his life already there at the rest of his life already there at age 18. age 18. age 18. >> And I think that one final piece of this >> And I think that one final piece of this >> And I think that one final piece of this is it had a lot to do with just family, is it had a lot to do with just family, is it had a lot to do with just family, you know, and who he was and he didn't you know, and who he was and he didn't you know, and who he was and he didn't want to be pushed around by anybody and want to be pushed around by anybody and want to be pushed around by anybody and he was willing to die rather than to let he was willing to die rather than to let he was willing to die rather than to let that happen. And the fact that he I that happen. And the fact that he I that happen. And the fact that he I think one of this the final things that think one of this the final things that think one of this the final things that this illustrates about Caesar is Caesar this illustrates about Caesar is Caesar this illustrates about Caesar is Caesar was for all this you could criticize was for all this you could criticize was for all this you could criticize about the guy he was incredibly loyal to about the guy he was incredibly loyal to about the guy he was incredibly loyal to the people that um that were close to the people that um that were close to the people that um that were close to him to his friends loyal to a fault and him to his friends loyal to a fault and him to his friends loyal to a fault and he was loyal to this to this wife uh he was loyal to this to this wife uh he was loyal to this to this wife uh Cornelia Cornelia Cornelia all the way up to her death. Uh I I all the way up to her death. Uh I I all the way up to her death. Uh I I can't prove this and I wouldn't even try can't prove this and I wouldn't even try can't prove this and I wouldn't even try but Caesar was famously uh good with the but Caesar was famously uh good with the but Caesar was famously uh good with the ladies and uh you know slept with a lot ladies and uh you know slept with a lot ladies and uh you know slept with a lot of senators wives and so forth and had a of senators wives and so forth and had a of senators wives and so forth and had a lot of girlfriends on the side but we lot of girlfriends on the side but we lot of girlfriends on the side but we don't know of any specific cases where don't know of any specific cases where don't know of any specific cases where he did that with while he was married to he did that with while he was married to he did that with while he was married to his first wife Cornelia and she ends up his first wife Cornelia and she ends up his first wife Cornelia and she ends up being the the mother of his only being the the mother of his only being the the mother of his only daughter uh his only child child up daughter uh his only child child up daughter uh his only child child up until the very end Julia. Uh, but I until the very end Julia. Uh, but I until the very end Julia. Uh, but I think that it was it was something about think that it was it was something about think that it was it was something about proving loyalty to that woman. But I proving loyalty to that woman. But I proving loyalty to that woman. But I think you see in that, you know, to think you see in that, you know, to think you see in that, you know, to answer your question about, you know, answer your question about, you know, answer your question about, you know, what are his ambitions? Like they're what are his ambitions? Like they're what are his ambitions? Like they're grand already. You can see that in in grand already. You can see that in in grand already. You can see that in in him as a young man. He like he knows him as a young man. He like he knows him as a young man. He like he knows he's destined for for something big. he's destined for for something big. he's destined for for something big. He's smart, talented, handsome, He's smart, talented, handsome, He's smart, talented, handsome, and so forth. Um, and uh, and he was and so forth. Um, and uh, and he was and so forth. Um, and uh, and he was just going to he was going to ride that just going to he was going to ride that just going to he was going to ride that horse as long as he could. Before we horse as long as he could. Before we horse as long as he could. Before we continue, I wish someone had told me 5 continue, I wish someone had told me 5 continue, I wish someone had told me 5 years ago to stop overthinking nutrition years ago to stop overthinking nutrition years ago to stop overthinking nutrition and just find something that works. I've and just find something that works. I've and just find something that works. 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Right now, you can get a free AG1 welcome kit that includes get a free AG1 welcome kit that includes get a free AG1 welcome kit that includes a bottle of D3 K2, AG1 flavor sampler, a bottle of D3 K2, AG1 flavor sampler, a bottle of D3 K2, AG1 flavor sampler, and that 90-day money back guarantee by and that 90-day money back guarantee by and that 90-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description going to the link in the description going to the link in the description below or heading to below or heading to below or heading to drinkag.com/modernwisdom. What was that story about Caesar and the What was that story about Caesar and the pirates? That was when he was young, pirates? That was when he was young, pirates? That was when he was young, right? right? right? >> Yeah. Yeah. That's another great story. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's another great story. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's another great story. Another another kind of like flash of Another another kind of like flash of Another another kind of like flash of his brilliance. So he's uh he's off his brilliance. So he's uh he's off his brilliance. So he's uh he's off coorting in Asia, Asia Minor as a young coorting in Asia, Asia Minor as a young coorting in Asia, Asia Minor as a young man. And um this is before Pompy cleans man. And um this is before Pompy cleans man. And um this is before Pompy cleans up the seas for the pirates. And so he up the seas for the pirates. And so he up the seas for the pirates. And so he gets um captured by pirates as one does gets um captured by pirates as one does gets um captured by pirates as one does during those times. And he during those times. And he during those times. And he um I think he's like on a study trip um I think he's like on a study trip um I think he's like on a study trip actually uh at the time. So it's it's actually uh at the time. So it's it's actually uh at the time. So it's it's he's very young like 20 23. he's very young like 20 23. he's very young like 20 23. And the uh the pirates want to ransom And the uh the pirates want to ransom And the uh the pirates want to ransom him. And uh Caesar says, "What you're him. And uh Caesar says, "What you're him. And uh Caesar says, "What you're asking is insulting. Like you're asking asking is insulting. Like you're asking asking is insulting. Like you're asking 20 million sisters. You need to double 20 million sisters. You need to double 20 million sisters. You need to double it. Like you don't know what you've got it. Like you don't know what you've got it. Like you don't know what you've got on your hands here." on your hands here." on your hands here." U because I think partly because they U because I think partly because they U because I think partly because they kind of trolled him. partly because he kind of trolled him. partly because he kind of trolled him. partly because he is uh he knows that if he gets ransomed is uh he knows that if he gets ransomed is uh he knows that if he gets ransomed for more money, it's going to make a for more money, it's going to make a for more money, it's going to make a better story and people are going to better story and people are going to better story and people are going to think more of him because like you know think more of him because like you know think more of him because like you know the Greek word for honor is um is team the Greek word for honor is um is team the Greek word for honor is um is team A. It means price, you know, it's it's A. It means price, you know, it's it's A. It means price, you know, it's it's the pri it's literally the price that the pri it's literally the price that the pri it's literally the price that you your comrades would be willing to you your comrades would be willing to you your comrades would be willing to ransom you for if you got captured. Like ransom you for if you got captured. Like ransom you for if you got captured. Like it's it's quantifiable. It's very it's it's quantifiable. It's very it's it's quantifiable. It's very quantified. Like in Homer, you know, uh quantified. Like in Homer, you know, uh quantified. Like in Homer, you know, uh it's we think of honor as this abstract it's we think of honor as this abstract it's we think of honor as this abstract thing, but it's like how much are you thing, but it's like how much are you thing, but it's like how much are you really worth? You know, you could put a really worth? You know, you could put a really worth? You know, you could put a number on that. So Caesar kind of gets number on that. So Caesar kind of gets number on that. So Caesar kind of gets that. He basically bids on his own that. He basically bids on his own that. He basically bids on his own auction. auction. auction. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. And and uh and the funny thing about And and uh and the funny thing about And and uh and the funny thing about that story is uh well there's a lot of that story is uh well there's a lot of that story is uh well there's a lot of funny things but you know while he's funny things but you know while he's funny things but you know while he's there with the pirates Plutarch um who's there with the pirates Plutarch um who's there with the pirates Plutarch um who's his greatest biographer uh says uh you his greatest biographer uh says uh you his greatest biographer uh says uh you know Caesar would sort of um he was he know Caesar would sort of um he was he know Caesar would sort of um he was he would joke around with them and he would would joke around with them and he would would joke around with them and he would uh write compositions. He's like, you uh write compositions. He's like, you uh write compositions. He's like, you know, rocking around in the hole there know, rocking around in the hole there know, rocking around in the hole there writing speeches and he would he would writing speeches and he would he would writing speeches and he would he would declare them in front of the pirates and declare them in front of the pirates and declare them in front of the pirates and he'd make them laugh and cry and then he he'd make them laugh and cry and then he he'd make them laugh and cry and then he would just say, "You people have no would just say, "You people have no would just say, "You people have no taste. I can't believe that I'm I'm taste. I can't believe that I'm I'm taste. I can't believe that I'm I'm hanging out with you." And they would hanging out with you." And they would hanging out with you." And they would say, "Oh, Caesar." And then he said, say, "Oh, Caesar." And then he said, say, "Oh, Caesar." And then he said, "You know, someday uh I'm going to come "You know, someday uh I'm going to come "You know, someday uh I'm going to come back after after you ransom me and I'm back after after you ransom me and I'm back after after you ransom me and I'm going to execute every single one of going to execute every single one of going to execute every single one of you." And they said, "Ah, I'll see this you." And they said, "Ah, I'll see this you." And they said, "Ah, I'll see this kid. We love this kid. Pour him another kid. We love this kid. Pour him another kid. We love this kid. Pour him another drink." you know, and then that's drink." you know, and then that's drink." you know, and then that's exactly what he does, right? He gets exactly what he does, right? He gets exactly what he does, right? He gets ransomed and um and he uh the the local ransomed and um and he uh the the local ransomed and um and he uh the the local governor that um that is responsible for governor that um that is responsible for governor that um that is responsible for that part of the sea is um that part of the sea is um that part of the sea is um uh I I think he no he he raises a a uh I I think he no he he raises a a uh I I think he no he he raises a a fleet with his own funds and he goes and fleet with his own funds and he goes and fleet with his own funds and he goes and he you know he knows where these guys he you know he knows where these guys he you know he knows where these guys hide out their little cove and he hide out their little cove and he hide out their little cove and he captures the pirates and he brings them captures the pirates and he brings them captures the pirates and he brings them to the governor and the governor is sort to the governor and the governor is sort to the governor and the governor is sort of doawling. he doesn't really have a of doawling. he doesn't really have a of doawling. he doesn't really have a great plan for these pirates. And so he great plan for these pirates. And so he great plan for these pirates. And so he Caesar goes and he crucifies all of them Caesar goes and he crucifies all of them Caesar goes and he crucifies all of them uh to make a statement. But you know uh to make a statement. But you know uh to make a statement. But you know because they were such uh kindly hosts because they were such uh kindly hosts because they were such uh kindly hosts to them, he does them the the courtesy to them, he does them the the courtesy to them, he does them the the courtesy of having their throat slit before they of having their throat slit before they of having their throat slit before they get crucified so they don't you know get crucified so they don't you know get crucified so they don't you know have to be there in agony for several have to be there in agony for several have to be there in agony for several days dying. Gives them a short death. So days dying. Gives them a short death. So days dying. Gives them a short death. So you know I think it you know perfect you know I think it you know perfect you know I think it you know perfect combination of his his winning charm his combination of his his winning charm his combination of his his winning charm his deep sense for the political stakes of deep sense for the political stakes of deep sense for the political stakes of every single thing that he does you know every single thing that he does you know every single thing that he does you know raising his price making a scene and raising his price making a scene and raising his price making a scene and making a statement by you know making a statement by you know making a statement by you know fulfilling his promise to in in the most fulfilling his promise to in in the most fulfilling his promise to in in the most coldblooded way possible. coldblooded way possible. coldblooded way possible. >> Why did he become so popular? What was >> Why did he become so popular? What was >> Why did he become so popular? What was what were the levers that he was pulling what were the levers that he was pulling what were the levers that he was pulling on? Well, before he becomes a commander, on? Well, before he becomes a commander, on? Well, before he becomes a commander, at least Caesar is uh just a really at least Caesar is uh just a really at least Caesar is uh just a really stylish guy. He he has a flare for stylish guy. He he has a flare for stylish guy. He he has a flare for fashion. You know, he wears his his toga fashion. You know, he wears his his toga fashion. You know, he wears his his toga a little differently than than everybody a little differently than than everybody a little differently than than everybody else. It's a little looser. Uh you know, else. It's a little looser. Uh you know, else. It's a little looser. Uh you know, it's kind of like, you know, when I was it's kind of like, you know, when I was it's kind of like, you know, when I was in high school, a lot a lot of kids in high school, a lot a lot of kids in high school, a lot a lot of kids would like let their pants sag down. It would like let their pants sag down. It would like let their pants sag down. It was like the cool look. Yeah, the was like the cool look. Yeah, the was like the cool look. Yeah, the Caesar's doing that. Like, let's let's Caesar's doing that. Like, let's let's Caesar's doing that. Like, let's let's let our toga sag a little bit. Uh but it let our toga sag a little bit. Uh but it let our toga sag a little bit. Uh but it but it was it was like you know it was but it was it was like you know it was but it was it was like you know it was stylish and classy and and kind of um stylish and classy and and kind of um stylish and classy and and kind of um and and you know the older men at Rome and and you know the older men at Rome and and you know the older men at Rome would say oh that's effeminite. would say oh that's effeminite. would say oh that's effeminite. Um Um Um but Caesar knew that it would draw draw but Caesar knew that it would draw draw but Caesar knew that it would draw draw attention that he could pull it off. And attention that he could pull it off. And attention that he could pull it off. And um one of the ways that he attracts um one of the ways that he attracts um one of the ways that he attracts attention is by prosecuting uh corrupt attention is by prosecuting uh corrupt attention is by prosecuting uh corrupt governors when he's just in his 20s. you governors when he's just in his 20s. you governors when he's just in his 20s. you know, he he does these sort of um sort know, he he does these sort of um sort know, he he does these sort of um sort of publicity stunt DA like young DA of publicity stunt DA like young DA of publicity stunt DA like young DA prosecuting the um whatever city prosecuting the um whatever city prosecuting the um whatever city councilman and he he loses I think most councilman and he he loses I think most councilman and he he loses I think most of these but he makes a statement of of of these but he makes a statement of of of these but he makes a statement of of what he stands for and and I think he what he stands for and and I think he what he stands for and and I think he knows from a very early age that he's knows from a very early age that he's knows from a very early age that he's kind of an anti-establishment figure. kind of an anti-establishment figure. kind of an anti-establishment figure. Solah has dies soon after he becomes a Solah has dies soon after he becomes a Solah has dies soon after he becomes a dictator and and like in his youth um dictator and and like in his youth um dictator and and like in his youth um Saul basically Saul basically Saul basically firmly established the optimate firmly established the optimate firmly established the optimate oligarchy and everybody in power now in oligarchy and everybody in power now in oligarchy and everybody in power now in Rome was like a buddy of Sullah and they Rome was like a buddy of Sullah and they Rome was like a buddy of Sullah and they they have no serious challengers. they have no serious challengers. they have no serious challengers. They're corrupt, they're fat, they're They're corrupt, they're fat, they're They're corrupt, they're fat, they're slow, uh they're plundering the slow, uh they're plundering the slow, uh they're plundering the provincials and Caesar kind of takes a provincials and Caesar kind of takes a provincials and Caesar kind of takes a stand for justice like throughout his stand for justice like throughout his stand for justice like throughout his early career. And um in one of these one early career. And um in one of these one early career. And um in one of these one of these cases he um there was a there of these cases he um there was a there of these cases he um there was a there was a riot was a riot was a riot 30 years earlier. This is funny. And um 30 years earlier. This is funny. And um 30 years earlier. This is funny. And um and and some populist leaders, you know, and and some populist leaders, you know, and and some populist leaders, you know, people from Caesar's faction got people from Caesar's faction got people from Caesar's faction got murdered. Saturninus was the the most murdered. Saturninus was the the most murdered. Saturninus was the the most well there was a riot in the forum and well there was a riot in the forum and well there was a riot in the forum and then they they arrested the guys. They then they they arrested the guys. They then they they arrested the guys. They put them in the Senate house and then put them in the Senate house and then put them in the Senate house and then people snuck up to the roof in the people snuck up to the roof in the people snuck up to the roof in the night. they they removed the the roof night. they they removed the the roof night. they they removed the the roof tiles and they like hurled these like tiles and they like hurled these like tiles and they like hurled these like roof tiles down on Saturninus and his roof tiles down on Saturninus and his roof tiles down on Saturninus and his buddies and they killed him. So, uh buddies and they killed him. So, uh buddies and they killed him. So, uh there was some violence in the streets there was some violence in the streets there was some violence in the streets in Rome that the generation before. And in Rome that the generation before. And in Rome that the generation before. And so Caesar picks one of the last so Caesar picks one of the last so Caesar picks one of the last surviving men to have been vaguely surviving men to have been vaguely surviving men to have been vaguely implicated in this riot as somebody implicated in this riot as somebody implicated in this riot as somebody with, you know, blood on his hands with, you know, blood on his hands with, you know, blood on his hands metaphorically for the for the death of metaphorically for the for the death of metaphorically for the for the death of Saturninus and his associates. Um, and Saturninus and his associates. Um, and Saturninus and his associates. Um, and the guy is like this emaciated old old the guy is like this emaciated old old the guy is like this emaciated old old gentleman, um, Riberious, and he says, gentleman, um, Riberious, and he says, gentleman, um, Riberious, and he says, you know, uh, we're gonna we're going to you know, uh, we're gonna we're going to you know, uh, we're gonna we're going to hold you responsible for your crimes 30 hold you responsible for your crimes 30 hold you responsible for your crimes 30 years ago. Like Rome is Rome is a place years ago. Like Rome is Rome is a place years ago. Like Rome is Rome is a place of justice. And, uh, they basically, you of justice. And, uh, they basically, you of justice. And, uh, they basically, you know, long story short, they get they know, long story short, they get they know, long story short, they get they get him convicted and in the special get him convicted and in the special get him convicted and in the special court that they call the punishment is court that they call the punishment is court that they call the punishment is crucifixion. crucifixion. crucifixion. Like, so they're going to publicly Like, so they're going to publicly Like, so they're going to publicly execute this like 80-year-old man who execute this like 80-year-old man who execute this like 80-year-old man who probably doesn't even know what day it probably doesn't even know what day it probably doesn't even know what day it is and there's some lastm minute uh is and there's some lastm minute uh is and there's some lastm minute uh political shenanigans by Riberious's political shenanigans by Riberious's political shenanigans by Riberious's friends. They like raise this flag and friends. They like raise this flag and friends. They like raise this flag and they, you know, they there's a kind of they, you know, they there's a kind of they, you know, they there's a kind of like political chicainery where you can like political chicainery where you can like political chicainery where you can say the omens are bad and and it kind of say the omens are bad and and it kind of say the omens are bad and and it kind of calls off the whole thing. And Caesar, I calls off the whole thing. And Caesar, I calls off the whole thing. And Caesar, I think, kind of expected them to do that. think, kind of expected them to do that. think, kind of expected them to do that. Um but uh it the point was about the Um but uh it the point was about the Um but uh it the point was about the statement, you know, that statement, you know, that statement, you know, that oligarchs, aristocrats from the oligarchs, aristocrats from the oligarchs, aristocrats from the establishment can't get away with murder establishment can't get away with murder establishment can't get away with murder anymore. Not in this town anymore. I anymore. Not in this town anymore. I anymore. Not in this town anymore. I think that was a big piece of why he was think that was a big piece of why he was think that was a big piece of why he was popular before he ever led an army. Now, popular before he ever led an army. Now, popular before he ever led an army. Now, when he started leading armies, that's a when he started leading armies, that's a when he started leading armies, that's a whole different story. Like he was a whole different story. Like he was a whole different story. Like he was a master at getting um at like winning the master at getting um at like winning the master at getting um at like winning the respect of his soldiers. He was always respect of his soldiers. He was always respect of his soldiers. He was always fighting in the front lines. There's fighting in the front lines. There's fighting in the front lines. There's many stories about this um the many stories about this um the many stories about this um the incredible loyalty that that his incredible loyalty that that his incredible loyalty that that his soldiers in particular had for him. Um soldiers in particular had for him. Um soldiers in particular had for him. Um but he you know he's kind of a playboy but he you know he's kind of a playboy but he you know he's kind of a playboy in his in his youth and uh he just was in his in his youth and uh he just was in his in his youth and uh he just was was a fun guy to be around. He's always was a fun guy to be around. He's always was a fun guy to be around. He's always giving gifts. He's um he's in debt all giving gifts. He's um he's in debt all giving gifts. He's um he's in debt all the time up to his ears and he somehow the time up to his ears and he somehow the time up to his ears and he somehow always finds a way to pay off his always finds a way to pay off his always finds a way to pay off his creditors. Um uh he he was just a a creditors. Um uh he he was just a a creditors. Um uh he he was just a a really magnetic guy to be around. What really magnetic guy to be around. What really magnetic guy to be around. What was the loyalty that he generated? Just was the loyalty that he generated? Just was the loyalty that he generated? Just how loyal were his followers? Well, so how loyal were his followers? Well, so how loyal were his followers? Well, so one instance of this is in the Civil War one instance of this is in the Civil War one instance of this is in the Civil War that illustrates this is uh this guy that illustrates this is uh this guy that illustrates this is uh this guy Granius Petro is um a guy we wouldn't Granius Petro is um a guy we wouldn't Granius Petro is um a guy we wouldn't know his name otherwise but he's a know his name otherwise but he's a know his name otherwise but he's a quester in Caesar's army and quester in Caesar's army and quester in Caesar's army and gets he's a ship captain gets gets his gets he's a ship captain gets gets his gets he's a ship captain gets gets his ship captured by Caesar's enemies in the ship captured by Caesar's enemies in the ship captured by Caesar's enemies in the civil war and um and So he's brought civil war and um and So he's brought civil war and um and So he's brought aboard the ship with his fellow sailors aboard the ship with his fellow sailors aboard the ship with his fellow sailors uh and and the the enemy commander, the uh and and the the enemy commander, the uh and and the the enemy commander, the optimate commander says, "Uh, Granius optimate commander says, "Uh, Granius optimate commander says, "Uh, Granius Petro, you know, we're going to we're Petro, you know, we're going to we're Petro, you know, we're going to we're going to be nice to you guys. Now, going to be nice to you guys. Now, going to be nice to you guys. Now, normally since you you all are traitors, normally since you you all are traitors, normally since you you all are traitors, what we should do is slit your throats what we should do is slit your throats what we should do is slit your throats and throw you overboard, but we're going and throw you overboard, but we're going and throw you overboard, but we're going to be very kind. You know, Caesar's a to be very kind. You know, Caesar's a to be very kind. You know, Caesar's a kind man. We know he's the enemy of the kind man. We know he's the enemy of the kind man. We know he's the enemy of the state and tyrant and lawless, but we're state and tyrant and lawless, but we're state and tyrant and lawless, but we're going to we're going to not let him going to we're going to not let him going to we're going to not let him morally outclass us. We're just going to morally outclass us. We're just going to morally outclass us. We're just going to sell you in the slave market, all of sell you in the slave market, all of sell you in the slave market, all of you. Um, and hopefully you'll get you. Um, and hopefully you'll get you. Um, and hopefully you'll get ransomed, maybe. But Granny Petro, you, ransomed, maybe. But Granny Petro, you, ransomed, maybe. But Granny Petro, you, however, may go free. He's the he's however, may go free. He's the he's however, may go free. He's the he's their leader. And uh, but you have to go their leader. And uh, but you have to go their leader. And uh, but you have to go and tell Caesar what we did here and and tell Caesar what we did here and and tell Caesar what we did here and tell him that his war effort is feudal, tell him that his war effort is feudal, tell him that his war effort is feudal, that he should surrender to the lawful that he should surrender to the lawful that he should surrender to the lawful government of the republic. And Granius government of the republic. And Granius government of the republic. And Granius Petro says, "It is the custom of Caesar Petro says, "It is the custom of Caesar Petro says, "It is the custom of Caesar soldiers to give mercy but not to soldiers to give mercy but not to soldiers to give mercy but not to receive it." Then he pulls out a dagger receive it." Then he pulls out a dagger receive it." Then he pulls out a dagger and he stabs himself to death right in and he stabs himself to death right in and he stabs himself to death right in front of the the enemy console. That's front of the the enemy console. That's front of the the enemy console. That's the kind of loyalty that Caesar had. the kind of loyalty that Caesar had. the kind of loyalty that Caesar had. Like this guy would rather die than, you Like this guy would rather die than, you Like this guy would rather die than, you know, be ashamed by letting his enemies know, be ashamed by letting his enemies know, be ashamed by letting his enemies spare him. spare him. spare him. Um, another great instance, uh, I mean, Um, another great instance, uh, I mean, Um, another great instance, uh, I mean, the Caesar soldiers had this incredible the Caesar soldiers had this incredible the Caesar soldiers had this incredible endurance throughout all of his endurance throughout all of his endurance throughout all of his campaigns. They're willing to fight for campaigns. They're willing to fight for campaigns. They're willing to fight for him to to the death. You know, stories him to to the death. You know, stories him to to the death. You know, stories about soldiers getting shot in the eye, about soldiers getting shot in the eye, about soldiers getting shot in the eye, shot in the arm, shot in the leg, taking shot in the arm, shot in the leg, taking shot in the arm, shot in the leg, taking hundreds of blows, and then they don't hundreds of blows, and then they don't hundreds of blows, and then they don't leave the fight, they just have to be leave the fight, they just have to be leave the fight, they just have to be dragged away by their companions. Uh, dragged away by their companions. Uh, dragged away by their companions. Uh, one instance again later from Caesar's one instance again later from Caesar's one instance again later from Caesar's career, his um he's fighting this this career, his um he's fighting this this career, his um he's fighting this this great um kind of trench war, siege war great um kind of trench war, siege war great um kind of trench war, siege war with um with Pompy. There's like a 17 with um with Pompy. There's like a 17 with um with Pompy. There's like a 17 mile wall that he's built around Pompy's mile wall that he's built around Pompy's mile wall that he's built around Pompy's camp to wall him into the coast in camp to wall him into the coast in camp to wall him into the coast in Greece and Pompy's built another Greece and Pompy's built another Greece and Pompy's built another counterwall. So, it's this dragging counterwall. So, it's this dragging counterwall. So, it's this dragging dragging long siege warfare and the dragging long siege warfare and the dragging long siege warfare and the supplies are getting choked. Caesar cuts supplies are getting choked. Caesar cuts supplies are getting choked. Caesar cuts off the water to Pompy. The animals are off the water to Pompy. The animals are off the water to Pompy. The animals are starving and dying in Pompy's camp. But starving and dying in Pompy's camp. But starving and dying in Pompy's camp. But Caesar is even in worse straits because Caesar is even in worse straits because Caesar is even in worse straits because they've eat they've eat they've eat 20,000 30,000 men. They're they're 20,000 30,000 men. They're they're 20,000 30,000 men. They're they're eating the all the food in the area. eating the all the food in the area. eating the all the food in the area. They're like running out of food and They're like running out of food and They're like running out of food and they're having to go and collect weeds they're having to go and collect weeds they're having to go and collect weeds and bake them into these horrible, and bake them into these horrible, and bake them into these horrible, disgusting cakes and just eat them. And disgusting cakes and just eat them. And disgusting cakes and just eat them. And um and at some point uh Pompy's guys um and at some point uh Pompy's guys um and at some point uh Pompy's guys have enough food and water personally have enough food and water personally have enough food and water personally even though the animals are dying. They even though the animals are dying. They even though the animals are dying. They call over to Caesar's men across the call over to Caesar's men across the call over to Caesar's men across the wall. They say, you know, "Hey, Roman, wall. They say, you know, "Hey, Roman, wall. They say, you know, "Hey, Roman, getting hungry over there?" getting hungry over there?" getting hungry over there?" And uh Caesar's soldiers catapult over And uh Caesar's soldiers catapult over And uh Caesar's soldiers catapult over some of these horrible loaves of nasty some of these horrible loaves of nasty some of these horrible loaves of nasty food that they're eating just to show food that they're eating just to show food that they're eating just to show what they're willing to eat. They're what they're willing to eat. They're what they're willing to eat. They're willing to like starve to death before willing to like starve to death before willing to like starve to death before giving up the fight. And one of these giving up the fight. And one of these giving up the fight. And one of these these cakes, you know, imagine like a these cakes, you know, imagine like a these cakes, you know, imagine like a cow patty. One of these cakes is brought cow patty. One of these cakes is brought cow patty. One of these cakes is brought to Pompy, you know, his his enemy, the to Pompy, you know, his his enemy, the to Pompy, you know, his his enemy, the commander. And he says, "Good God, we commander. And he says, "Good God, we commander. And he says, "Good God, we are fighting with beasts." And and uh and they go to Caesar and And and uh and they go to Caesar and they say, "We would rather eat tree bark they say, "We would rather eat tree bark they say, "We would rather eat tree bark than surrender." Um and how was he able than surrender." Um and how was he able than surrender." Um and how was he able to generate that? to generate that? to generate that? >> He fights in the front lines with them >> He fights in the front lines with them >> He fights in the front lines with them all the time. He's he risks his life all the time. He's he risks his life all the time. He's he risks his life um right up right up there with the um right up right up there with the um right up right up there with the centurions. He knows all the centurions centurions. He knows all the centurions centurions. He knows all the centurions in his army by name. There's like one in his army by name. There's like one in his army by name. There's like one centurion for every 80 men and uh he's centurion for every 80 men and uh he's centurion for every 80 men and uh he's got an army of 30,000. He remembers got an army of 30,000. He remembers got an army of 30,000. He remembers their names. He like takes the time to their names. He like takes the time to their names. He like takes the time to do that. He do that. He do that. He um um um he also he also he also uh is he's very generous with with uh is he's very generous with with uh is he's very generous with with gifts. And he what what what he'll do is gifts. And he what what what he'll do is gifts. And he what what what he'll do is he'll eat the same food that they eat. I he'll eat the same food that they eat. I he'll eat the same food that they eat. I don't know if he ate those cow patties, don't know if he ate those cow patties, don't know if he ate those cow patties, but I imagine he did because he had this but I imagine he did because he had this but I imagine he did because he had this habit of like if if the if the olive oil habit of like if if the if the olive oil habit of like if if the if the olive oil was rancid and there was good olive oil, was rancid and there was good olive oil, was rancid and there was good olive oil, but the the troops were eating the bad but the the troops were eating the bad but the the troops were eating the bad olive oil, he would eat the bad olive olive oil, he would eat the bad olive olive oil, he would eat the bad olive oil. if his uh if his troops are oil. if his uh if his troops are oil. if his uh if his troops are sleeping in the on the ground, if his sleeping in the on the ground, if his sleeping in the on the ground, if his officer core, they're, you know, he's officer core, they're, you know, he's officer core, they're, you know, he's always going around uh like lightning always going around uh like lightning always going around uh like lightning speed blitzing around the campaigns and speed blitzing around the campaigns and speed blitzing around the campaigns and often they have to stay in weird places. often they have to stay in weird places. often they have to stay in weird places. You know, if his officers are sleeping You know, if his officers are sleeping You know, if his officers are sleeping on the ground, he'll sleep on the on the ground, he'll sleep on the on the ground, he'll sleep on the ground. He'll give a good one bed. We'll ground. He'll give a good one bed. We'll ground. He'll give a good one bed. We'll give it to the weakest of us, which is give it to the weakest of us, which is give it to the weakest of us, which is not me, you know. Uh so he's he's always not me, you know. Uh so he's he's always not me, you know. Uh so he's he's always there with them. Um but he's also you there with them. Um but he's also you there with them. Um but he's also you he's very lavish with these guys, too. he's very lavish with these guys, too. he's very lavish with these guys, too. like he his his um like he his his um like he his his um what he does he does amass a lot of what he does he does amass a lot of what he does he does amass a lot of money when he's conquering Gaul for money when he's conquering Gaul for money when he's conquering Gaul for example but it's always only to give it example but it's always only to give it example but it's always only to give it to his friends to give it to the people to his friends to give it to the people to his friends to give it to the people of Rome to do something with it to it's of Rome to do something with it to it's of Rome to do something with it to it's all he always sees money as a tool and all he always sees money as a tool and all he always sees money as a tool and and riches as a tool and gift as a tool and riches as a tool and gift as a tool and riches as a tool and gift as a tool uh to to to like win to bind people uh to to to like win to bind people uh to to to like win to bind people closer to himself self cuz this is this closer to himself self cuz this is this closer to himself self cuz this is this is where his real power lies and this is is where his real power lies and this is is where his real power lies and this is what where I think in general real power what where I think in general real power what where I think in general real power lies. 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So instead then they do the triumvirate. So instead then they do the triumvirate. So instead of trying to beat them, he actually of trying to beat them, he actually of trying to beat them, he actually decides to do that thing with Cassus and decides to do that thing with Cassus and decides to do that thing with Cassus and Pompy. Pompy. Pompy. What's the arc of his big enemies across What's the arc of his big enemies across What's the arc of his big enemies across his life? his life? his life? >> Yeah. So Pompy is um they're they're >> Yeah. So Pompy is um they're they're >> Yeah. So Pompy is um they're they're friendly for most of their career. And friendly for most of their career. And friendly for most of their career. And um Pompy is a kind of moderate populist. um Pompy is a kind of moderate populist. um Pompy is a kind of moderate populist. Uh Pompy mostly wants to Uh Pompy mostly wants to Uh Pompy mostly wants to uh in his early career he's a he's uh in his early career he's a he's uh in his early career he's a he's fights for Solah but soon after Solah fights for Solah but soon after Solah fights for Solah but soon after Solah dies you know Pompy doesn't he's not dies you know Pompy doesn't he's not dies you know Pompy doesn't he's not really into politics that much. He really into politics that much. He really into politics that much. He mostly wants to just get himself sent mostly wants to just get himself sent mostly wants to just get himself sent off as commander of Rome's armies to off as commander of Rome's armies to off as commander of Rome's armies to fight all kinds of wars because that's I fight all kinds of wars because that's I fight all kinds of wars because that's I think that's his happy place. Pompy is think that's his happy place. Pompy is think that's his happy place. Pompy is um an excellent administrator. He's um an excellent administrator. He's um an excellent administrator. He's great at logistics. Uh, I think he's great at logistics. Uh, I think he's great at logistics. Uh, I think he's he's kind of a big guy, too. And so he's kind of a big guy, too. And so he's kind of a big guy, too. And so Caesar helps him a lot in his early Caesar helps him a lot in his early Caesar helps him a lot in his early career to get these extraordinary career to get these extraordinary career to get these extraordinary commands is what they call them. Like commands is what they call them. Like commands is what they call them. Like Pompy doesn't hold office until he's 35. Pompy doesn't hold office until he's 35. Pompy doesn't hold office until he's 35. And usually to become console, which is And usually to become console, which is And usually to become console, which is what he becomes, you would have to have what he becomes, you would have to have what he becomes, you would have to have like, you know, a whole sequence of like, you know, a whole sequence of like, you know, a whole sequence of offices. But Pompy's just he's just a offices. But Pompy's just he's just a offices. But Pompy's just he's just a golden boy. Poppy is um he's he's got golden boy. Poppy is um he's he's got golden boy. Poppy is um he's he's got this combination of charm and he's got this combination of charm and he's got this combination of charm and he's got this boyish look. He's got this little this boyish look. He's got this little this boyish look. He's got this little quiff in his hair. He kind of looks like quiff in his hair. He kind of looks like quiff in his hair. He kind of looks like Alexander and he kind of models himself Alexander and he kind of models himself Alexander and he kind of models himself off of Alexander the Great. I mean off of Alexander the Great. I mean off of Alexander the Great. I mean Caesar and Pompy both are like Alexander Caesar and Pompy both are like Alexander Caesar and Pompy both are like Alexander uh Alexander stands and um but he's also uh Alexander stands and um but he's also uh Alexander stands and um but he's also got this ruthlessness to him too. uh got this ruthlessness to him too. uh got this ruthlessness to him too. uh they called him the kid butcher when he they called him the kid butcher when he they called him the kid butcher when he was younger and the Romans just loved was younger and the Romans just loved was younger and the Romans just loved this combination of coldblooded this combination of coldblooded this combination of coldblooded forcefulness, brutality even, you know, forcefulness, brutality even, you know, forcefulness, brutality even, you know, in a controlled way and then boyish in a controlled way and then boyish in a controlled way and then boyish charm uh which Pompy had. But the way charm uh which Pompy had. But the way charm uh which Pompy had. But the way that they really get in um that they really get in um that they really get in um in into cahoots in the first triumvirate in into cahoots in the first triumvirate in into cahoots in the first triumvirate is so even though Caesar's kind of is so even though Caesar's kind of is so even though Caesar's kind of friendly with Pompy, helps him out here friendly with Pompy, helps him out here friendly with Pompy, helps him out here and there, and there, and there, he's not he's not he's not like like like really tight with Pompy. really tight with Pompy. really tight with Pompy. Who he is tight with is Craas, the Who he is tight with is Craas, the Who he is tight with is Craas, the richest man in Rome. Another fascinating richest man in Rome. Another fascinating richest man in Rome. Another fascinating figure that I did a did a biography on figure that I did a did a biography on figure that I did a did a biography on on the cost of glory. He uh crass on the cost of glory. He uh crass on the cost of glory. He uh crass finances Caesar's career. He's basically finances Caesar's career. He's basically finances Caesar's career. He's basically the one holding the note for all of the one holding the note for all of the one holding the note for all of Caesar's colossal political debts. Um, Caesar's colossal political debts. Um, Caesar's colossal political debts. Um, and there comes a point when Caesar is and there comes a point when Caesar is and there comes a point when Caesar is ready to run for console that Craas has ready to run for console that Craas has ready to run for console that Craas has a problem and Pompy has a lot of a problem and Pompy has a lot of a problem and Pompy has a lot of problems that they can't get solved in problems that they can't get solved in problems that they can't get solved in the Senate and in politics. Pompy has the Senate and in politics. Pompy has the Senate and in politics. Pompy has just come back from this glorious just come back from this glorious just come back from this glorious eastern campaign. He's defeated this eastern campaign. He's defeated this eastern campaign. He's defeated this general Mithrates. He's uh he's general Mithrates. He's uh he's general Mithrates. He's uh he's essentially conquered Judea. Uh, and essentially conquered Judea. Uh, and essentially conquered Judea. Uh, and he's he's defiled the temple in he's he's defiled the temple in he's he's defiled the temple in Jerusalem. Um, but he's come back Jerusalem. Um, but he's come back Jerusalem. Um, but he's come back glorious with a bunch of soldiers that glorious with a bunch of soldiers that glorious with a bunch of soldiers that need rewards. He wants to settle his need rewards. He wants to settle his need rewards. He wants to settle his soldiers. He wants the Senate to soldiers. He wants the Senate to soldiers. He wants the Senate to ratify all of the arrangements, the ratify all of the arrangements, the ratify all of the arrangements, the treaties that he made, you know, treaties that he made, you know, treaties that he made, you know, appointing a client king here, you know, appointing a client king here, you know, appointing a client king here, you know, getting a city constitution ratified getting a city constitution ratified getting a city constitution ratified there. and he's got a lot of a lot of there. and he's got a lot of a lot of there. and he's got a lot of a lot of interest in that like materially, you interest in that like materially, you interest in that like materially, you know, people um sending him money and know, people um sending him money and know, people um sending him money and promising to support him and war or promising to support him and war or promising to support him and war or politics. So, Pompy has a lot of needs politics. So, Pompy has a lot of needs politics. So, Pompy has a lot of needs and and it's it's all getting blocked by and and it's it's all getting blocked by and and it's it's all getting blocked by the Senate. He's just not that great at the Senate. He's just not that great at the Senate. He's just not that great at the political game. His and and by this the political game. His and and by this the political game. His and and by this point, Pompy is sort of an outsider from point, Pompy is sort of an outsider from point, Pompy is sort of an outsider from the from the optimist, from the from the the from the optimist, from the from the the from the optimist, from the from the kind of establishment conservatives kind of establishment conservatives kind of establishment conservatives um who are blocking Pompy. They think um who are blocking Pompy. They think um who are blocking Pompy. They think he's getting too powerful. Caesar is he's getting too powerful. Caesar is he's getting too powerful. Caesar is nobody at this point. I mean, yeah, he's nobody at this point. I mean, yeah, he's nobody at this point. I mean, yeah, he's a promising young politician, but he's a promising young politician, but he's a promising young politician, but he's not he's not like a powerful man. Uh so not he's not like a powerful man. Uh so not he's not like a powerful man. Uh so we we talk about the triumvirate. Uh but we we talk about the triumvirate. Uh but we we talk about the triumvirate. Uh but it's it's Caesar brokering a deal with it's it's Caesar brokering a deal with it's it's Caesar brokering a deal with Pompy. And then Craus on the other hand Pompy. And then Craus on the other hand Pompy. And then Craus on the other hand has some tax breaks he wants for his u has some tax breaks he wants for his u has some tax breaks he wants for his u basically his portfolio companies who basically his portfolio companies who basically his portfolio companies who are equestrian tax collectors. And um are equestrian tax collectors. And um are equestrian tax collectors. And um they can't get it through the Senate. they can't get it through the Senate. they can't get it through the Senate. Both Pompy and Craas are outsiders to Both Pompy and Craas are outsiders to Both Pompy and Craas are outsiders to the Optimate establishment. The main guy the Optimate establishment. The main guy the Optimate establishment. The main guy who's the kind of figurehead of the of who's the kind of figurehead of the of who's the kind of figurehead of the of the conservatives is this young guy Ko the conservatives is this young guy Ko the conservatives is this young guy Ko who becomes who's the Stoic famously who becomes who's the Stoic famously who becomes who's the Stoic famously becomes Caesar's worst nemesis. And becomes Caesar's worst nemesis. And becomes Caesar's worst nemesis. And Caesar basically comes to these these Caesar basically comes to these these Caesar basically comes to these these two um big shots, the two big fish in two um big shots, the two big fish in two um big shots, the two big fish in Rome, Pompy and Craus, richest man and Rome, Pompy and Craus, richest man and Rome, Pompy and Craus, richest man and then the most glorious general. and he then the most glorious general. and he then the most glorious general. and he says, "You guys hate each other. You've says, "You guys hate each other. You've says, "You guys hate each other. You've hate each other for a long time. You've hate each other for a long time. You've hate each other for a long time. You've always been trying to smile in public always been trying to smile in public always been trying to smile in public when you're next to each other, but then when you're next to each other, but then when you're next to each other, but then stab each other in the back behind the stab each other in the back behind the stab each other in the back behind the scenes. But look, you both have needs. scenes. But look, you both have needs. scenes. But look, you both have needs. I can I can I can fix them. I can fix I can I can I can fix them. I can fix I can I can I can fix them. I can fix this. I can get your legislation passed, this. I can get your legislation passed, this. I can get your legislation passed, Pompy. I can get your legislation Pompy. I can get your legislation Pompy. I can get your legislation passed, crisis. Support me in the passed, crisis. Support me in the passed, crisis. Support me in the console ship, and I'm going to ask for a console ship, and I'm going to ask for a console ship, and I'm going to ask for a favor down the line, but let's not worry favor down the line, but let's not worry favor down the line, but let's not worry about that right now." and they say, about that right now." and they say, about that right now." and they say, "All right." And so it's basically the "All right." And so it's basically the "All right." And so it's basically the triumph is Caesar brokering this deal triumph is Caesar brokering this deal triumph is Caesar brokering this deal between these two top guys, which is a between these two top guys, which is a between these two top guys, which is a great that's a great strategy, I think, great that's a great strategy, I think, great that's a great strategy, I think, if you're if you're like down here and if you're if you're like down here and if you're if you're like down here and there's men up here that have a need to there's men up here that have a need to there's men up here that have a need to help find the way to help them out. And help find the way to help them out. And help find the way to help them out. And and the biggest thing that's blocking and the biggest thing that's blocking and the biggest thing that's blocking each of them really is each other. Like each of them really is each other. Like each of them really is each other. Like Crass is like pushing the Senate to not Crass is like pushing the Senate to not Crass is like pushing the Senate to not ratify Pompy's legislation. Pompy is ratify Pompy's legislation. Pompy is ratify Pompy's legislation. Pompy is going to use his clients to kind of push going to use his clients to kind of push going to use his clients to kind of push against Crass. you know, making peace against Crass. you know, making peace against Crass. you know, making peace between the two of them. Um, and and it between the two of them. Um, and and it between the two of them. Um, and and it was a pretty good relationship for a was a pretty good relationship for a was a pretty good relationship for a long time. And and once once Caesar gets long time. And and once once Caesar gets long time. And and once once Caesar gets elected console, his dear dear daughter elected console, his dear dear daughter elected console, his dear dear daughter Julia is one child uh up to that point, Julia is one child uh up to that point, Julia is one child uh up to that point, he marries her off to Pompy the Great, he marries her off to Pompy the Great, he marries her off to Pompy the Great, and he becomes Pompy's father-in-law, and he becomes Pompy's father-in-law, and he becomes Pompy's father-in-law, even though he's a younger man somewhat. even though he's a younger man somewhat. even though he's a younger man somewhat. And by all accounts, that marriage was And by all accounts, that marriage was And by all accounts, that marriage was not just a political marriage, but not just a political marriage, but not just a political marriage, but became a very loving relationship. Um, became a very loving relationship. Um, became a very loving relationship. Um, and so, uh, you know, they had this long and so, uh, you know, they had this long and so, uh, you know, they had this long connection, uh, long before the Civil connection, uh, long before the Civil connection, uh, long before the Civil War that made them mortal enemies of War that made them mortal enemies of War that made them mortal enemies of each other, which I think is what makes each other, which I think is what makes each other, which I think is what makes it kind of even more tragic and bitter. it kind of even more tragic and bitter. it kind of even more tragic and bitter. >> And then how do Pompy and Caesar end up >> And then how do Pompy and Caesar end up >> And then how do Pompy and Caesar end up at war? Well, that's you know at war? Well, that's you know at war? Well, that's you know a long story I guess but in some when a long story I guess but in some when a long story I guess but in some when Caesar Caesar Caesar h how it all happens how how this h how it all happens how how this h how it all happens how how this breakdown happens is when Caesar goes breakdown happens is when Caesar goes breakdown happens is when Caesar goes off when he finishes his consil ship he off when he finishes his consil ship he off when he finishes his consil ship he gets Pompy and Craus to support him to gets Pompy and Craus to support him to gets Pompy and Craus to support him to have himself sent off to Gaul. have himself sent off to Gaul. have himself sent off to Gaul. So far, you know, Caesar hasn't had his So far, you know, Caesar hasn't had his So far, you know, Caesar hasn't had his Alexander moment. This is his chance to Alexander moment. This is his chance to Alexander moment. This is his chance to do some real worldchanging conquest. do some real worldchanging conquest. do some real worldchanging conquest. And uh he spends the years 59 is the And uh he spends the years 59 is the And uh he spends the years 59 is the first triumvirate. So he spends the first triumvirate. So he spends the first triumvirate. So he spends the years 58 through 52 years 58 through 52 years 58 through 52 conquering Gaul. And um Rome controls a conquering Gaul. And um Rome controls a conquering Gaul. And um Rome controls a little strip along the coast. Gaul is little strip along the coast. Gaul is little strip along the coast. Gaul is France of course. Um but but the Gauls, France of course. Um but but the Gauls, France of course. Um but but the Gauls, the Kelts, uh is the other name for the Kelts, uh is the other name for the Kelts, uh is the other name for them. They are not just a kind of you them. They are not just a kind of you them. They are not just a kind of you know peaceable farmer unsuspecting know peaceable farmer unsuspecting know peaceable farmer unsuspecting society of you know we just we just want society of you know we just we just want society of you know we just we just want to like live our our peaceful lives. Why to like live our our peaceful lives. Why to like live our our peaceful lives. Why are these Romans coming and conquering are these Romans coming and conquering are these Romans coming and conquering us? I mean this is a confederation of us? I mean this is a confederation of us? I mean this is a confederation of war incredibly warlike tribes who have war incredibly warlike tribes who have war incredibly warlike tribes who have threatened Rome on many occasions. And threatened Rome on many occasions. And threatened Rome on many occasions. And um just in the previous generation, um just in the previous generation, um just in the previous generation, there was a great golic invasion that there was a great golic invasion that there was a great golic invasion that stopped by gas Marius. And um and so the stopped by gas Marius. And um and so the stopped by gas Marius. And um and so the and they and in several centuries and they and in several centuries and they and in several centuries earlier the the Gauls like actually earlier the the Gauls like actually earlier the the Gauls like actually sacked the city of Rome, like taken the sacked the city of Rome, like taken the sacked the city of Rome, like taken the only time that ever happened up to that only time that ever happened up to that only time that ever happened up to that point. So there's a real threat there point. So there's a real threat there point. So there's a real threat there arguably. arguably. arguably. And uh you know we could get into how And uh you know we could get into how And uh you know we could get into how Caesar conquered Gaul but how Pompy and Caesar conquered Gaul but how Pompy and Caesar conquered Gaul but how Pompy and Caesar fell out with each other is it's Caesar fell out with each other is it's Caesar fell out with each other is it's a long story that basically a long story that basically a long story that basically while Caesar's away he he is absent from while Caesar's away he he is absent from while Caesar's away he he is absent from the city of Rome and from Italy for the city of Rome and from Italy for the city of Rome and from Italy for um seven years well really eight years um seven years well really eight years um seven years well really eight years um um um before the conflict between them breaks before the conflict between them breaks before the conflict between them breaks out. And while he's away, Craas dies. out. And while he's away, Craas dies. out. And while he's away, Craas dies. And Craas was a kind of fulcrum And Craas was a kind of fulcrum And Craas was a kind of fulcrum balancing out Caesar and Pompy. Um, he balancing out Caesar and Pompy. Um, he balancing out Caesar and Pompy. Um, he got dies on this great Persian got dies on this great Persian got dies on this great Persian expedition, this campaign to invade not expedition, this campaign to invade not expedition, this campaign to invade not Iran, but Iraq where there the Persians Iran, but Iraq where there the Persians Iran, but Iraq where there the Persians were in charge. Um so that that was uh were in charge. Um so that that was uh were in charge. Um so that that was uh the kind of like last when you have the kind of like last when you have the kind of like last when you have three men they can kind of balance each three men they can kind of balance each three men they can kind of balance each other out but when it becomes two men other out but when it becomes two men other out but when it becomes two men there's there's a polarity there that there's there's a polarity there that there's there's a polarity there that can really be inflamed and this is can really be inflamed and this is can really be inflamed and this is exactly what the establishment people exactly what the establishment people exactly what the establishment people see people like KO see Caesar has always see people like KO see Caesar has always see people like KO see Caesar has always been a revolutionary in their opinion been a revolutionary in their opinion been a revolutionary in their opinion he's always been trying to make a grab he's always been trying to make a grab he's always been trying to make a grab at supreme power they they they had at supreme power they they they had at supreme power they they they had their eye on him since he since he was a their eye on him since he since he was a their eye on him since he since he was a young man. Solo was right about this young man. Solo was right about this young man. Solo was right about this kid, there is many Mariuses in him. And kid, there is many Mariuses in him. And kid, there is many Mariuses in him. And they, you know, Pompy has has been an they, you know, Pompy has has been an they, you know, Pompy has has been an outsider, but they they see sort of late outsider, but they they see sort of late outsider, but they they see sort of late in the game after Craus dies that if in the game after Craus dies that if in the game after Craus dies that if they can kind of court Pompy they can kind of court Pompy they can kind of court Pompy into the establishment. He's always into the establishment. He's always into the establishment. He's always wanted their approval. You know, Pompy wanted their approval. You know, Pompy wanted their approval. You know, Pompy has always just wanted to be this has always just wanted to be this has always just wanted to be this glorious general welcomed by the blue glorious general welcomed by the blue glorious general welcomed by the blue bloodoods, the great families, and they bloodoods, the great families, and they bloodoods, the great families, and they never really had it. And so they see never really had it. And so they see never really had it. And so they see their chance. Ko and company like, let's their chance. Ko and company like, let's their chance. Ko and company like, let's make Pompy a respectable man. Let's make make Pompy a respectable man. Let's make make Pompy a respectable man. Let's make him our shield, our shield against him our shield, our shield against him our shield, our shield against Caesar because Caesar's going to come Caesar because Caesar's going to come Caesar because Caesar's going to come back at some point and he's going to back at some point and he's going to back at some point and he's going to come back richer and more powerful and come back richer and more powerful and come back richer and more powerful and more glorious than ever. And he's going more glorious than ever. And he's going more glorious than ever. And he's going to just push us around in politics and to just push us around in politics and to just push us around in politics and and maybe maybe maybe he's going to try and maybe maybe maybe he's going to try and maybe maybe maybe he's going to try to take over the thing and make himself to take over the thing and make himself to take over the thing and make himself a monarch, which I think was a a monarch, which I think was a a monarch, which I think was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like that self-fulfilling prophecy. Like that self-fulfilling prophecy. Like that wasn't really his intent at that point. wasn't really his intent at that point. wasn't really his intent at that point. But basically they say Caesar, But basically they say Caesar, But basically they say Caesar, it's like 51 BC at this point. Caesar's it's like 51 BC at this point. Caesar's it's like 51 BC at this point. Caesar's been in Gaul for 8 years. He's got been in Gaul for 8 years. He's got been in Gaul for 8 years. He's got so many well-trained legions. Um so many well-trained legions. Um so many well-trained legions. Um and uh and basically his enemies are and uh and basically his enemies are and uh and basically his enemies are saying you can't we're not going to let saying you can't we're not going to let saying you can't we're not going to let you come back you come back you come back except under circumstances where you except under circumstances where you except under circumstances where you will face accountability prosecution will face accountability prosecution will face accountability prosecution potentially for all of the bad things potentially for all of the bad things potentially for all of the bad things you did in your earlier career including you did in your earlier career including you did in your earlier career including when you were console. And they when you were console. And they when you were console. And they basically, you know, long story short, basically, you know, long story short, basically, you know, long story short, they kind of they kind of they kind of play Pompy and C, they especially kind play Pompy and C, they especially kind play Pompy and C, they especially kind of get into Pompy's head and play him of get into Pompy's head and play him of get into Pompy's head and play him off of Caesar uh in this gradual shift off of Caesar uh in this gradual shift off of Caesar uh in this gradual shift of alliances. And importantly of alliances. And importantly of alliances. And importantly importantly, Caesar's daughter Julia, importantly, Caesar's daughter Julia, importantly, Caesar's daughter Julia, Pompy's, you know, the love of Pompy's Pompy's, you know, the love of Pompy's Pompy's, you know, the love of Pompy's life by all accounts, she dies in life by all accounts, she dies in life by all accounts, she dies in childbirth in 54. childbirth in 54. childbirth in 54. And um that was like the link that held And um that was like the link that held And um that was like the link that held them the final tether. them the final tether. them the final tether. >> The final tether that held them >> The final tether that held them >> The final tether that held them together. Um and after that the civil together. Um and after that the civil together. Um and after that the civil war war war >> cuz otherwise there would have been some >> cuz otherwise there would have been some >> cuz otherwise there would have been some leverage over Caesar. Yeah. We have your leverage over Caesar. Yeah. We have your leverage over Caesar. Yeah. We have your daughter. daughter. daughter. >> Oh yeah. I had thought about that. I I >> Oh yeah. I had thought about that. I I >> Oh yeah. I had thought about that. I I think they couldn't have gotten Pompy's think they couldn't have gotten Pompy's think they couldn't have gotten Pompy's head because, you know, they would have head because, you know, they would have head because, you know, they would have had a Caesar's grandson, Pompy's son, had a Caesar's grandson, Pompy's son, had a Caesar's grandson, Pompy's son, would have would have bound them would have would have bound them would have would have bound them together. It was a boy that was born uh together. It was a boy that was born uh together. It was a boy that was born uh that died soon after his mother died. that died soon after his mother died. that died soon after his mother died. Um, so I I I think that it it wasn't an Um, so I I I think that it it wasn't an Um, so I I I think that it it wasn't an an obvious fit for Pompy to be um their an obvious fit for Pompy to be um their an obvious fit for Pompy to be um their shield, their man. He had always been an shield, their man. He had always been an shield, their man. He had always been an outsider and uh Caesar could have kind outsider and uh Caesar could have kind outsider and uh Caesar could have kind of kept him kept him loyal. It's very of kept him kept him loyal. It's very of kept him kept him loyal. It's very hard when you're in France and this is hard when you're in France and this is hard when you're in France and this is all happening in Rome, but Caesar has a all happening in Rome, but Caesar has a all happening in Rome, but Caesar has a lot of lieutenants to really, you know, lot of lieutenants to really, you know, lot of lieutenants to really, you know, >> men of letters trying to kind of keep >> men of letters trying to kind of keep >> men of letters trying to kind of keep the peace and keep up his contacts in the peace and keep up his contacts in the peace and keep up his contacts in Rome. like if he had been able to be Rome. like if he had been able to be Rome. like if he had been able to be there in person, he believed he could there in person, he believed he could there in person, he believed he could have he could have settled the seas and have he could have settled the seas and have he could have settled the seas and won Pompy back over. won Pompy back over. won Pompy back over. >> And this is one of the things after the >> And this is one of the things after the >> And this is one of the things after the war broke out that he kept trying over war broke out that he kept trying over war broke out that he kept trying over and over again like let's just meet just and over again like let's just meet just and over again like let's just meet just Yeah. the civil war. Let's just meet. Yeah. the civil war. Let's just meet. Yeah. the civil war. Let's just meet. Let's uh let's work this all out. Let's uh let's work this all out. Let's uh let's work this all out. >> But he didn't want to. >> But he didn't want to. >> But he didn't want to. >> Yeah. Pompy didn't want to at that >> Yeah. Pompy didn't want to at that >> Yeah. Pompy didn't want to at that point. He'd already hardened his heart. point. He'd already hardened his heart. point. He'd already hardened his heart. >> He was supposed to be Pompy was supposed >> He was supposed to be Pompy was supposed >> He was supposed to be Pompy was supposed to be one of the greatest generals ever, to be one of the greatest generals ever, to be one of the greatest generals ever, right? And he didn't he not outnumber right? And he didn't he not outnumber right? And he didn't he not outnumber Caesar as well? Caesar as well? Caesar as well? >> Yeah, he greatly did. He had he Pompy >> Yeah, he greatly did. He had he Pompy >> Yeah, he greatly did. He had he Pompy was brilliant in the Civil War. He was brilliant in the Civil War. He was brilliant in the Civil War. He defeated Storius. He c he conquered the defeated Storius. He c he conquered the defeated Storius. He c he conquered the the pirates in like three months earlier the pirates in like three months earlier the pirates in like three months earlier in his career. I mean, he's a brilliant in his career. I mean, he's a brilliant in his career. I mean, he's a brilliant administrator. Um, some people think administrator. Um, some people think administrator. Um, some people think he's overrated as a general. I mean, he he's overrated as a general. I mean, he he's overrated as a general. I mean, he was really good, but I think Caesar was was really good, but I think Caesar was was really good, but I think Caesar was a better general. But but a better general. But but a better general. But but >> evidently >> evidently >> evidently >> evidently, but he he definitely had by >> evidently, but he he definitely had by >> evidently, but he he definitely had by all by the look of it all the all by the look of it all the all by the look of it all the advantages. When Caesar invades Italy, advantages. When Caesar invades Italy, advantages. When Caesar invades Italy, crosses the Rubicon. Um, you know, Pompy crosses the Rubicon. Um, you know, Pompy crosses the Rubicon. Um, you know, Pompy has a lot of legions on paper, but has a lot of legions on paper, but has a lot of legions on paper, but they're they're fresh recruits. What's they're they're fresh recruits. What's they're they're fresh recruits. What's the story of crossing the Rubicon? the story of crossing the Rubicon? the story of crossing the Rubicon? >> Yeah. This episode is brought to you by >> Yeah. This episode is brought to you by >> Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Whoop. 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Right now, you can get the brand new Whoop 5.0 and that 30-day free brand new Whoop 5.0 and that 30-day free brand new Whoop 5.0 and that 30-day free trial by going to the link in the trial by going to the link in the trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to description below or heading to description below or heading to join.woop.com/modernwisdom. join.woop.com/modernwisdom. join.woop.com/modernwisdom. That's join.woop.com/modernwisdom. >> I mean, I it's something that I've heard >> I mean, I it's something that I've heard people say all the time. It's a Rubicon people say all the time. It's a Rubicon people say all the time. It's a Rubicon moment, crossing of the Rubicon. moment, crossing of the Rubicon. moment, crossing of the Rubicon. >> I have no idea what that means. I I >> I have no idea what that means. I I >> I have no idea what that means. I I don't know the story. I don't understand don't know the story. I don't understand don't know the story. I don't understand why it's significant. I don't know what why it's significant. I don't know what why it's significant. I don't know what it's supposed to symbolize. it's supposed to symbolize. it's supposed to symbolize. >> Yeah. So there's a kind of a complicated >> Yeah. So there's a kind of a complicated >> Yeah. So there's a kind of a complicated buildup, a standoff. You know, buildup, a standoff. You know, buildup, a standoff. You know, everybody's always kind of ratcheting up everybody's always kind of ratcheting up everybody's always kind of ratcheting up their demands as Caesar's like, I want their demands as Caesar's like, I want their demands as Caesar's like, I want to come back to Rome, don't without to come back to Rome, don't without to come back to Rome, don't without prosecution. And the Senate's like over prosecution. And the Senate's like over prosecution. And the Senate's like over our dead bodies. Uh here, you know, our dead bodies. Uh here, you know, our dead bodies. Uh here, you know, concessions going back and forth being concessions going back and forth being concessions going back and forth being rejected. And so as this is all going rejected. And so as this is all going rejected. And so as this is all going on, on, on, Caesar's getting his getting his armies Caesar's getting his getting his armies Caesar's getting his getting his armies ready. He doesn't want to fight a civil ready. He doesn't want to fight a civil ready. He doesn't want to fight a civil war. I think he's, you know, and he war. I think he's, you know, and he war. I think he's, you know, and he always said that. And I I think it's always said that. And I I think it's always said that. And I I think it's right right right >> because he's just come back from Gaul. >> because he's just come back from Gaul. >> because he's just come back from Gaul. >> Yeah, he's just come back from Gaul. >> Yeah, he's just come back from Gaul. >> Yeah, he's just come back from Gaul. He's He's He's >> sevenyear campaign, eightyear campaign >> sevenyear campaign, eightyear campaign >> sevenyear campaign, eightyear campaign straight into a civil war. straight into a civil war. straight into a civil war. >> Right. Basically, he's he's at war from >> Right. Basically, he's he's at war from >> Right. Basically, he's he's at war from 58 BC until 45 BC almost constantly. I 58 BC until 45 BC almost constantly. I 58 BC until 45 BC almost constantly. I mean, the energy of the man mean, the energy of the man mean, the energy of the man and and he's got two advantages. Um so, and and he's got two advantages. Um so, and and he's got two advantages. Um so, so basically he's got uh I think he's so basically he's got uh I think he's so basically he's got uh I think he's got 10 legions at this point, something got 10 legions at this point, something got 10 legions at this point, something like 40,000 men, but they're all kind of like 40,000 men, but they're all kind of like 40,000 men, but they're all kind of strung out over Gaul and forts. They're strung out over Gaul and forts. They're strung out over Gaul and forts. They're they're not close. He's got one legion they're not close. He's got one legion they're not close. He's got one legion with him on the border, the legal border with him on the border, the legal border with him on the border, the legal border between Italy and between Italy and between Italy and um basically northern Italy. What we um basically northern Italy. What we um basically northern Italy. What we call northern Italy today was what they call northern Italy today was what they call northern Italy today was what they would call cis Alpine Gaul. It's um it's would call cis Alpine Gaul. It's um it's would call cis Alpine Gaul. It's um it's it's not like Italy proper. And um if it's not like Italy proper. And um if it's not like Italy proper. And um if you uh lead an army into Italy without you uh lead an army into Italy without you uh lead an army into Italy without disbanding it, it's like technically an disbanding it, it's like technically an disbanding it, it's like technically an act of war. like your consils are act of war. like your consils are act of war. like your consils are supposed to disband their armies before supposed to disband their armies before supposed to disband their armies before they reenter Italy. they reenter Italy. they reenter Italy. And so the border between And so the border between And so the border between sis Alpine Gaul and Italy proper is the sis Alpine Gaul and Italy proper is the sis Alpine Gaul and Italy proper is the Rubicon River. It's this insignificant Rubicon River. It's this insignificant Rubicon River. It's this insignificant stream near Ravena in northern Italy on stream near Ravena in northern Italy on stream near Ravena in northern Italy on the Adriatic coast. And um and so the Adriatic coast. And um and so the Adriatic coast. And um and so Caesar's camped at Revena Caesar's camped at Revena Caesar's camped at Revena and he is negotiating with the with the and he is negotiating with the with the and he is negotiating with the with the Senate envoys going back and forth back Senate envoys going back and forth back Senate envoys going back and forth back and forth. It's not looking good. Caesar and forth. It's not looking good. Caesar and forth. It's not looking good. Caesar doesn't want to fight a war, but he's doesn't want to fight a war, but he's doesn't want to fight a war, but he's going to be ready. You know, he's not going to be ready. You know, he's not going to be ready. You know, he's not he's not about to pretend like this he's not about to pretend like this he's not about to pretend like this couldn't happen. I think Pompy wasn't couldn't happen. I think Pompy wasn't couldn't happen. I think Pompy wasn't really ready for it. But so he's got one really ready for it. But so he's got one really ready for it. But so he's got one legion there with him at Revena. Not a legion there with him at Revena. Not a legion there with him at Revena. Not a lot of men, lot of men, lot of men, 400 uh 4,500 men or so. And at at at 400 uh 4,500 men or so. And at at at 400 uh 4,500 men or so. And at at at this final moment, the negotiations this final moment, the negotiations this final moment, the negotiations break down. And the Senate declares him break down. And the Senate declares him break down. And the Senate declares him a public enemy. They say, "Caesar is is a public enemy. They say, "Caesar is is a public enemy. They say, "Caesar is is is, you know, he's not responding to our is, you know, he's not responding to our is, you know, he's not responding to our demands. We've had enough." They demands. We've had enough." They demands. We've had enough." They officially basically declare war on him. officially basically declare war on him. officially basically declare war on him. And the moment he gets that advice, the And the moment he gets that advice, the And the moment he gets that advice, the very next day, actually, he was um he very next day, actually, he was um he very next day, actually, he was um he knew what he was going to do the next knew what he was going to do the next knew what he was going to do the next day, but he pretends like nothing's day, but he pretends like nothing's day, but he pretends like nothing's happening on that day. He's just going happening on that day. He's just going happening on that day. He's just going to go about his business in Revena. He to go about his business in Revena. He to go about his business in Revena. He goes to the gladiatorial shows. He goes to the gladiatorial shows. He goes to the gladiatorial shows. He inspects his troops. He has dinner with inspects his troops. He has dinner with inspects his troops. He has dinner with his friends. It's just a normal day. No his friends. It's just a normal day. No his friends. It's just a normal day. No big deal. But he secretly sends the big deal. But he secretly sends the big deal. But he secretly sends the order out to his troops to muster. and order out to his troops to muster. and order out to his troops to muster. and he uh finds his way to the Rubicon. He he uh finds his way to the Rubicon. He he uh finds his way to the Rubicon. He apparently like gets lost in the woods apparently like gets lost in the woods apparently like gets lost in the woods cuz it's dark. I mean, there's there's cuz it's dark. I mean, there's there's cuz it's dark. I mean, there's there's all these kind of elaborate tales about all these kind of elaborate tales about all these kind of elaborate tales about this. And one of the ancient sources, this. And one of the ancient sources, this. And one of the ancient sources, not Plutarch, who's a little bit more not Plutarch, who's a little bit more not Plutarch, who's a little bit more sober. Uh one of the ancient sources, sober. Uh one of the ancient sources, sober. Uh one of the ancient sources, Suatonius, I think it is, says, you Suatonius, I think it is, says, you Suatonius, I think it is, says, you know, you know, as he stood there before know, you know, as he stood there before know, you know, as he stood there before the Rubicon, he saw a great winged the Rubicon, he saw a great winged the Rubicon, he saw a great winged figure blowing a trumpet. It's like the figure blowing a trumpet. It's like the figure blowing a trumpet. It's like the gods are like calling him to war. It's gods are like calling him to war. It's gods are like calling him to war. It's like the Vularies or something. Um, but like the Vularies or something. Um, but like the Vularies or something. Um, but what he says is um he's there with his what he says is um he's there with his what he says is um he's there with his officers officers officers and he knows if he crosses that river and he knows if he crosses that river and he knows if he crosses that river that uh it's he's he's declaring war that uh it's he's he's declaring war that uh it's he's he's declaring war back on the Senate. Um and so back on the Senate. Um and so back on the Senate. Um and so he says, "Let the eye be cast." and the he says, "Let the eye be cast." and the he says, "Let the eye be cast." and the the famous words. It's actually a quote the famous words. It's actually a quote the famous words. It's actually a quote from one of his favorite dramas or a from one of his favorite dramas or a from one of his favorite dramas or a comedy from Manander like let the die be comedy from Manander like let the die be comedy from Manander like let the die be cast as as one does when one is entering cast as as one does when one is entering cast as as one does when one is entering upon a highly risky thing with uncertain upon a highly risky thing with uncertain upon a highly risky thing with uncertain results as Plutarch says. And so he results as Plutarch says. And so he results as Plutarch says. And so he crosses the the Rubicon very quickly and crosses the the Rubicon very quickly and crosses the the Rubicon very quickly and within a day he is just blitzed down and within a day he is just blitzed down and within a day he is just blitzed down and captured a city in in Italy proper and captured a city in in Italy proper and captured a city in in Italy proper and he just he has one of his advantages as he just he has one of his advantages as he just he has one of his advantages as I was saying is he loves to be I was saying is he loves to be I was saying is he loves to be underestimated and he's really good at underestimated and he's really good at underestimated and he's really good at getting himself underestimated. Um, and getting himself underestimated. Um, and getting himself underestimated. Um, and they didn't think he would do it. And he they didn't think he would do it. And he they didn't think he would do it. And he he only uh goes into Italy with he only uh goes into Italy with he only uh goes into Italy with one legion. And this the Senate has like one legion. And this the Senate has like one legion. And this the Senate has like 10 legions in Italy. I mean, he's vastly 10 legions in Italy. I mean, he's vastly 10 legions in Italy. I mean, he's vastly outnumbered, but everybody else arrives outnumbered, but everybody else arrives outnumbered, but everybody else arrives really quickly. The other advantage is really quickly. The other advantage is really quickly. The other advantage is he's really fast. And so he blitzes he's really fast. And so he blitzes he's really fast. And so he blitzes through Italy and pretty soon Pompy through Italy and pretty soon Pompy through Italy and pretty soon Pompy um and the Senate decide they've got to um and the Senate decide they've got to um and the Senate decide they've got to they've got to get out of there. They've they've got to get out of there. They've they've got to get out of there. They've got to think rethink their grand got to think rethink their grand got to think rethink their grand strategy. and they they they go to strategy. and they they they go to strategy. and they they they go to Greece to basically muster up and um Greece to basically muster up and um Greece to basically muster up and um collect a bunch of ships and a bunch of collect a bunch of ships and a bunch of collect a bunch of ships and a bunch of troops in the east and come back and troops in the east and come back and troops in the east and come back and reinvade Italy and destroy Caesar. But reinvade Italy and destroy Caesar. But reinvade Italy and destroy Caesar. But but it doesn't work out that way. but it doesn't work out that way. but it doesn't work out that way. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> Well, they were hoping they knew that >> Well, they were hoping they knew that >> Well, they were hoping they knew that Caesar didn't have any ships. Basically, Caesar didn't have any ships. Basically, Caesar didn't have any ships. Basically, he doesn't have troop transports. So, he doesn't have troop transports. So, he doesn't have troop transports. So, he's not able to cross over and catch he's not able to cross over and catch he's not able to cross over and catch them and take the war to Greece. he's them and take the war to Greece. he's them and take the war to Greece. he's not able to draw on his great advantage, not able to draw on his great advantage, not able to draw on his great advantage, which is speed. And they're hoping to uh which is speed. And they're hoping to uh which is speed. And they're hoping to uh essentially kind of blockade Italy and essentially kind of blockade Italy and essentially kind of blockade Italy and starve him out. Rome, if you blockade starve him out. Rome, if you blockade starve him out. Rome, if you blockade Rome, the people will starve quickly Rome, the people will starve quickly Rome, the people will starve quickly because they're getting the majority of because they're getting the majority of because they're getting the majority of their grain from places like Sicily, their grain from places like Sicily, their grain from places like Sicily, North Africa, uh not yet Egypt, but it's North Africa, uh not yet Egypt, but it's North Africa, uh not yet Egypt, but it's a, you know, it's the biggest city in a, you know, it's the biggest city in a, you know, it's the biggest city in the world at that point, at least in the the world at that point, at least in the the world at that point, at least in the West, million people maybe. and uh you West, million people maybe. and uh you West, million people maybe. and uh you can't get that much grain in from the can't get that much grain in from the can't get that much grain in from the countryside on carts, you know, so they countryside on carts, you know, so they countryside on carts, you know, so they bring it in on ships. So they're hoping bring it in on ships. So they're hoping bring it in on ships. So they're hoping to basically starve the people of Rome to basically starve the people of Rome to basically starve the people of Rome and makes these are really unpopular. and makes these are really unpopular. and makes these are really unpopular. >> Um and so uh he doesn't have ships, he >> Um and so uh he doesn't have ships, he >> Um and so uh he doesn't have ships, he can't go catch them. So there's also um can't go catch them. So there's also um can't go catch them. So there's also um Pompy's got guys in Spain that start up Pompy's got guys in Spain that start up Pompy's got guys in Spain that start up a uh they you know holding out against a uh they you know holding out against a uh they you know holding out against Caesar and you know Caesar's only Caesar and you know Caesar's only Caesar and you know Caesar's only controls Italy and Gaul and so he has to controls Italy and Gaul and so he has to controls Italy and Gaul and so he has to go fight a war in Spain first before he go fight a war in Spain first before he go fight a war in Spain first before he can go catch Pompy in Greece and uh you can go catch Pompy in Greece and uh you can go catch Pompy in Greece and uh you know basically by by leaving know basically by by leaving know basically by by leaving um by leaving Italy rather than settling um by leaving Italy rather than settling um by leaving Italy rather than settling it then and there his enemies are it then and there his enemies are it then and there his enemies are essentially saying they're willing to essentially saying they're willing to essentially saying they're willing to make this a world war, which is exactly make this a world war, which is exactly make this a world war, which is exactly what happens. There's there's a war what happens. There's there's a war what happens. There's there's a war fought in Spain first. Caesar comes and fought in Spain first. Caesar comes and fought in Spain first. Caesar comes and he and he um defeats them in Greece. he and he um defeats them in Greece. he and he um defeats them in Greece. Then he uh goes to Egypt. There's Then he uh goes to Egypt. There's Then he uh goes to Egypt. There's another war there. Then there's another another war there. Then there's another another war there. Then there's another war in Asia Minor. Then there's war in war in Asia Minor. Then there's war in war in Asia Minor. Then there's war in North Africa. And then there's the final North Africa. And then there's the final North Africa. And then there's the final kind of embers of the war in Spain. I kind of embers of the war in Spain. I kind of embers of the war in Spain. I mean, he he he visits every single mean, he he he visits every single mean, he he he visits every single province in the Roman Empire and carries province in the Roman Empire and carries province in the Roman Empire and carries war to almost all of them. war to almost all of them. war to almost all of them. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah. You mentioned Egypt there. What's >> Yeah. You mentioned Egypt there. What's >> Yeah. You mentioned Egypt there. What's the story of Caesar and Cleopatra? the story of Caesar and Cleopatra? the story of Caesar and Cleopatra? >> Yeah. Well, so um >> Yeah. Well, so um >> Yeah. Well, so um fast forward, you know, Caesar's first fast forward, you know, Caesar's first fast forward, you know, Caesar's first campaign is in Spain. His second campaign is in Spain. His second campaign is in Spain. His second campaign in the civil war is um is in campaign in the civil war is um is in campaign in the civil war is um is in Greece where he defeats Pompy at the Greece where he defeats Pompy at the Greece where he defeats Pompy at the battle of Farcelus, which is the really battle of Farcelus, which is the really battle of Farcelus, which is the really should have been the the last battle. should have been the the last battle. should have been the the last battle. Should have been the decisive battle. Should have been the decisive battle. Should have been the decisive battle. And uh um Pompy flees And uh um Pompy flees And uh um Pompy flees and makes his way to Egypt. They don't and makes his way to Egypt. They don't and makes his way to Egypt. They don't know where he went for for a while. Um know where he went for for a while. Um know where he went for for a while. Um but Caesar finally figures out he's gone but Caesar finally figures out he's gone but Caesar finally figures out he's gone to Egypt because Pompy has friends to Egypt because Pompy has friends to Egypt because Pompy has friends there. there. there. And as soon as he gets on shore, And as soon as he gets on shore, And as soon as he gets on shore, actually doesn't ever ever reach the actually doesn't ever ever reach the actually doesn't ever ever reach the shore. He he basically comes up with his shore. He he basically comes up with his shore. He he basically comes up with his warships and the Egyptians say, "Oh yes, warships and the Egyptians say, "Oh yes, warships and the Egyptians say, "Oh yes, we're really glad to see you, Pompy. Uh we're really glad to see you, Pompy. Uh we're really glad to see you, Pompy. Uh come come ashore. We we've got the whole come come ashore. We we've got the whole come come ashore. We we've got the whole reception ready for you. Just get in reception ready for you. Just get in reception ready for you. Just get in this little boat and you know there's this little boat and you know there's this little boat and you know there's there's reefs that a big ship like yours there's reefs that a big ship like yours there's reefs that a big ship like yours would would probably found her on. So would would probably found her on. So would would probably found her on. So just trust us. We're going to get you in just trust us. We're going to get you in just trust us. We're going to get you in this little boat and take you to shore this little boat and take you to shore this little boat and take you to shore >> and and uh you know Pompy gets on the >> and and uh you know Pompy gets on the >> and and uh you know Pompy gets on the boat. He he probably knows what's going boat. He he probably knows what's going boat. He he probably knows what's going to happen, but he's to happen, but he's to happen, but he's >> he has no hope at this point. He's just >> he has no hope at this point. He's just >> he has no hope at this point. He's just crust fallen. He's he's dispirited. He crust fallen. He's he's dispirited. He crust fallen. He's he's dispirited. He thought he was going to win against thought he was going to win against thought he was going to win against Caesar. It was an upset victory at Caesar. It was an upset victory at Caesar. It was an upset victory at Farsculus and um I think it just kind of Farsculus and um I think it just kind of Farsculus and um I think it just kind of shattered him shattered him shattered him >> and I think there's >> and I think there's >> and I think there's >> I'm trying to remember exactly how they >> I'm trying to remember exactly how they >> I'm trying to remember exactly how they frame him. There's a moment where the frame him. There's a moment where the frame him. There's a moment where the the boat captain is like come on Pompy, the boat captain is like come on Pompy, the boat captain is like come on Pompy, there's nothing to be worried about. You there's nothing to be worried about. You there's nothing to be worried about. You can trust us. Um and Pompy said, you can trust us. Um and Pompy said, you can trust us. Um and Pompy said, you know, if I were worried about my life, know, if I were worried about my life, know, if I were worried about my life, I would not get in this boat. I would not get in this boat. I would not get in this boat. Like Like Like I mean I think he knew I mean I think he knew I mean I think he knew >> because on that boat >> because on that boat >> because on that boat they murdered him in front of the eyes they murdered him in front of the eyes they murdered him in front of the eyes of his son, in front of the eyes of his of his son, in front of the eyes of his of his son, in front of the eyes of his wife, in front of the eyes of all of his wife, in front of the eyes of all of his wife, in front of the eyes of all of his friends once they get a little away from friends once they get a little away from friends once they get a little away from the the warship. He never makes it to the the warship. He never makes it to the the warship. He never makes it to shore. They murder him. Who's they? The shore. They murder him. Who's they? The shore. They murder him. Who's they? The Egyptians. So who is they? Egyptians. So who is they? Egyptians. So who is they? What's going on in Egypt right now is What's going on in Egypt right now is What's going on in Egypt right now is there's a civil war happening. there's a civil war happening. there's a civil war happening. Egypt is ruled by at this point by Egypt is ruled by at this point by Egypt is ruled by at this point by uh the tools who are a Greco Macedonian uh the tools who are a Greco Macedonian uh the tools who are a Greco Macedonian ruling class. Their capital is ruling class. Their capital is ruling class. Their capital is Alexandria which is a great Greek city Alexandria which is a great Greek city Alexandria which is a great Greek city founded by Alexander the Great. He's founded by Alexander the Great. He's founded by Alexander the Great. He's he's he's everywhere, isn't he? And so, he's he's everywhere, isn't he? And so, he's he's everywhere, isn't he? And so, uh, there's a conflict going on between uh, there's a conflict going on between uh, there's a conflict going on between these two like teenage, one is a these two like teenage, one is a these two like teenage, one is a teenager, one's a 20-year-old, like teenager, one's a 20-year-old, like teenager, one's a 20-year-old, like siblings of the pharaoh who died. You siblings of the pharaoh who died. You siblings of the pharaoh who died. You know, it's funny to think of these know, it's funny to think of these know, it's funny to think of these Greeks as pharaohs, but that's what they Greeks as pharaohs, but that's what they Greeks as pharaohs, but that's what they would have called them in Egypt. would have called them in Egypt. would have called them in Egypt. And um Pompy was hoping that all the And um Pompy was hoping that all the And um Pompy was hoping that all the favors he did for them earlier would favors he did for them earlier would favors he did for them earlier would ingratiate ingratiate ingratiate him to the Egyptian regime. But they him to the Egyptian regime. But they him to the Egyptian regime. But they basically saw Caesar won at Farsculus. basically saw Caesar won at Farsculus. basically saw Caesar won at Farsculus. He's probably going to be the winner in He's probably going to be the winner in He's probably going to be the winner in this war even though it might go on for this war even though it might go on for this war even though it might go on for a while. What would what would make a while. What would what would make a while. What would what would make Caesar really happy is if we just killed Caesar really happy is if we just killed Caesar really happy is if we just killed Pompy and presented Caesar with Pompy's Pompy and presented Caesar with Pompy's Pompy and presented Caesar with Pompy's head head head >> and said, "Hey, we did you a favor. And >> and said, "Hey, we did you a favor. And >> and said, "Hey, we did you a favor. And if we did that, if we did that, if we did that, you know, if if we let Pompy live, he's you know, if if we let Pompy live, he's you know, if if we let Pompy live, he's probably going to try to raise an army probably going to try to raise an army probably going to try to raise an army and try to use Egypt as a base and drag and try to use Egypt as a base and drag and try to use Egypt as a base and drag on the war. And we're going to have on the war. And we're going to have on the war. And we're going to have Roman troops just ripping this place. in Roman troops just ripping this place. in Roman troops just ripping this place. in the middle of our own war, it's going to the middle of our own war, it's going to the middle of our own war, it's going to be just a total mess. be just a total mess. be just a total mess. >> So, they kind of nip it in the bud. >> So, they kind of nip it in the bud. >> So, they kind of nip it in the bud. >> And um I I it kind of made sense. I >> And um I I it kind of made sense. I >> And um I I it kind of made sense. I think what would would have made more think what would would have made more think what would would have made more sense is for them to just arrest Pompy sense is for them to just arrest Pompy sense is for them to just arrest Pompy because Caesar wanted Pompy alive. because Caesar wanted Pompy alive. because Caesar wanted Pompy alive. Actually, Actually, Actually, >> he kept on pardoning his enemies during >> he kept on pardoning his enemies during >> he kept on pardoning his enemies during the civil war. the civil war. the civil war. >> Yes, he wanted to pardon Pompy. He >> Yes, he wanted to pardon Pompy. He >> Yes, he wanted to pardon Pompy. He pardoned enemy after enemy. Uh pardoned enemy after enemy. Uh pardoned enemy after enemy. Uh Dimmitius, Dimmitius, Dimmitius, uh Petro, Petraeus. I mean, you could uh Petro, Petraeus. I mean, you could uh Petro, Petraeus. I mean, you could list names and names. He's always list names and names. He's always list names and names. He's always sparing his enemies. Some would say that sparing his enemies. Some would say that sparing his enemies. Some would say that he was too kind to his enemies because he was too kind to his enemies because he was too kind to his enemies because they end up assassinating him. We'll get they end up assassinating him. We'll get they end up assassinating him. We'll get to that maybe. to that maybe. to that maybe. >> But um and Caesar also knows that uh if >> But um and Caesar also knows that uh if >> But um and Caesar also knows that uh if Pompy if he captures Pompy and spares Pompy if he captures Pompy and spares Pompy if he captures Pompy and spares him, if he if he could just get in the him, if he if he could just get in the him, if he if he could just get in the same room face to face with this man same room face to face with this man same room face to face with this man that he hasn't seen in the better part that he hasn't seen in the better part that he hasn't seen in the better part of 10 years, of 10 years, of 10 years, that they could work something out. he that they could work something out. he that they could work something out. he could convince Pompy to get the troops could convince Pompy to get the troops could convince Pompy to get the troops to stand down, to get everybody to to to stand down, to get everybody to to to stand down, to get everybody to to stand down. There's no way that this war stand down. There's no way that this war stand down. There's no way that this war could carry on if Pompy and Caesar come could carry on if Pompy and Caesar come could carry on if Pompy and Caesar come to an agreement finally. to an agreement finally. to an agreement finally. That's what he really wanted. Um he That's what he really wanted. Um he That's what he really wanted. Um he wanted to make peace. He didn't he wanted to make peace. He didn't he wanted to make peace. He didn't he didn't want to fight this war, but you didn't want to fight this war, but you didn't want to fight this war, but you know, he was willing to fight it if if know, he was willing to fight it if if know, he was willing to fight it if if they wanted to fight it with him. they wanted to fight it with him. they wanted to fight it with him. >> And so, you know, when he lands ashore, >> And so, you know, when he lands ashore, >> And so, you know, when he lands ashore, they present him with the signate ring they present him with the signate ring they present him with the signate ring of Pompy. This has a great I think it of Pompy. This has a great I think it of Pompy. This has a great I think it had a a lion on it. It was unmistakable. had a a lion on it. It was unmistakable. had a a lion on it. It was unmistakable. And then they give him the head of And then they give him the head of And then they give him the head of Pompus. Pompus. Pompus. >> Just in case you weren't sure. >> Just in case you weren't sure. >> Just in case you weren't sure. >> Here you are. >> Here you are. >> Here you are. >> Just in case you weren't sure whose ring >> Just in case you weren't sure whose ring >> Just in case you weren't sure whose ring that is. that is. that is. >> Okay. From the hand of the head ring >> Okay. From the hand of the head ring >> Okay. From the hand of the head ring that is. that is. that is. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Do Do you know Do you want to guess it? >> Do Do you know Do you want to guess it? >> Do Do you know Do you want to guess it? >> There it is. >> There it is. >> There it is. >> And that's the second time that uh that >> And that's the second time that uh that >> And that's the second time that uh that he's said to have cried, you know. he's said to have cried, you know. he's said to have cried, you know. >> Council of Rome. Um >> Council of Rome. Um >> Council of Rome. Um he I think he cried because this was his he I think he cried because this was his he I think he cried because this was his friend. Mhm. friend. Mhm. friend. Mhm. >> It really was his friend. And um he all >> It really was his friend. And um he all >> It really was his friend. And um he all his well his well his well the cynics will say that there were the cynics will say that there were the cynics will say that there were crocodile tears that Caesar was secretly crocodile tears that Caesar was secretly crocodile tears that Caesar was secretly happy. But I think that's totally false. happy. But I think that's totally false. happy. But I think that's totally false. Like he really wanted Pompy alive. And I Like he really wanted Pompy alive. And I Like he really wanted Pompy alive. And I think he did still kind of hold out hope think he did still kind of hold out hope think he did still kind of hold out hope that they would, you know, be able to that they would, you know, be able to that they would, you know, be able to come to an agreement. Of course, Caesar come to an agreement. Of course, Caesar come to an agreement. Of course, Caesar would be the the big man now and Pompy would be the the big man now and Pompy would be the the big man now and Pompy would be kind of his career would be would be kind of his career would be would be kind of his career would be over. Let's be frank. um after losing over. Let's be frank. um after losing over. Let's be frank. um after losing the civil war, maybe he could go into a the civil war, maybe he could go into a the civil war, maybe he could go into a dignified exile, but this was the father dignified exile, but this was the father dignified exile, but this was the father of his ch of his son before his son of his ch of his son before his son of his ch of his son before his son died. This was the the man who um who died. This was the the man who um who died. This was the the man who um who took care of his daughter. Like they had took care of his daughter. Like they had took care of his daughter. Like they had this really personal relationship. Um this really personal relationship. Um this really personal relationship. Um and uh so Caesar was actually quite and uh so Caesar was actually quite and uh so Caesar was actually quite pissed and he uh he ended up killing all pissed and he uh he ended up killing all pissed and he uh he ended up killing all the men who who called the hit on Pompy. the men who who called the hit on Pompy. the men who who called the hit on Pompy. >> Oh, why? >> Oh, why? >> Oh, why? >> Yeah. because they were basically um the >> Yeah. because they were basically um the >> Yeah. because they were basically um the the sibling of the rival tools that's the sibling of the rival tools that's the sibling of the rival tools that's controlling Alexandria is this this kid controlling Alexandria is this this kid controlling Alexandria is this this kid Tommy Tommy the 13th I think he's like Tommy Tommy the 13th I think he's like Tommy Tommy the 13th I think he's like 15 15 15 and it's it's actually he's kind of and it's it's actually he's kind of and it's it's actually he's kind of he's he's being kind of ruled by this he's he's being kind of ruled by this he's he's being kind of ruled by this this um general that he has and this this um general that he has and this this um general that he has and this this court unic, you know, as as one has this court unic, you know, as as one has this court unic, you know, as as one has in Egypt. One one one needs Unix to do in Egypt. One one one needs Unix to do in Egypt. One one one needs Unix to do things and, you know, one of them was a things and, you know, one of them was a things and, you know, one of them was a kind of Chamberlain and was kind of kind of Chamberlain and was kind of kind of Chamberlain and was kind of pushing the kid around and calling the pushing the kid around and calling the pushing the kid around and calling the shots and um shots and um shots and um and so the way that the war goes and so the way that the war goes and so the way that the war goes basically basically basically and Cleopatra are Cleopatra is the other and Cleopatra are Cleopatra is the other and Cleopatra are Cleopatra is the other the other sibling. I forgot to mention the other sibling. I forgot to mention the other sibling. I forgot to mention that. that. that. >> Uh she's off in the wilderness. who >> Uh she's off in the wilderness. who >> Uh she's off in the wilderness. who knows where she is. When Caesar arrives, knows where she is. When Caesar arrives, knows where she is. When Caesar arrives, Caesar is welcomed with kind of, you Caesar is welcomed with kind of, you Caesar is welcomed with kind of, you know, fake smiles by the Egyptians who know, fake smiles by the Egyptians who know, fake smiles by the Egyptians who just want the Romans gone. just want the Romans gone. just want the Romans gone. >> They're ro Egypt has been um it's not a >> They're ro Egypt has been um it's not a >> They're ro Egypt has been um it's not a Roman province. It's important to Roman province. It's important to Roman province. It's important to understand it's a Roman client kingdom. understand it's a Roman client kingdom. understand it's a Roman client kingdom. They're independent. They have their own They're independent. They have their own They're independent. They have their own tradition. They want to keep it that tradition. They want to keep it that tradition. They want to keep it that way. Alexandria is the most glorious way. Alexandria is the most glorious way. Alexandria is the most glorious city in the Mediterranean. Rome might be city in the Mediterranean. Rome might be city in the Mediterranean. Rome might be bigger, but it's a dirty place. bigger, but it's a dirty place. bigger, but it's a dirty place. Alexandria is a city of marble and Alexandria is a city of marble and Alexandria is a city of marble and culture. They've got the library. culture. They've got the library. culture. They've got the library. They've got, you know, Alexander's tomb They've got, you know, Alexander's tomb They've got, you know, Alexander's tomb there. Uh, and they just want the Romans there. Uh, and they just want the Romans there. Uh, and they just want the Romans to kind of leave them to their own to kind of leave them to their own to kind of leave them to their own devices. Maybe be allies, but basically devices. Maybe be allies, but basically devices. Maybe be allies, but basically they want Caesar gone as soon as they want Caesar gone as soon as they want Caesar gone as soon as possible. And Tommy represents the kind possible. And Tommy represents the kind possible. And Tommy represents the kind of uh more Egyptian independence of uh more Egyptian independence of uh more Egyptian independence um party in in in Egypt in Alexandria. um party in in in Egypt in Alexandria. um party in in in Egypt in Alexandria. He's loved by the people. Actually, He's loved by the people. Actually, He's loved by the people. Actually, Cleopatra was actually the unpopular Cleopatra was actually the unpopular Cleopatra was actually the unpopular one. And that's exactly the kind of one. And that's exactly the kind of one. And that's exactly the kind of person that Caesar likes to support. Um person that Caesar likes to support. Um person that Caesar likes to support. Um because the story is because the story is because the story is um he's been there for a couple of um he's been there for a couple of um he's been there for a couple of weeks. weeks. weeks. >> This is after he went to go and find >> This is after he went to go and find >> This is after he went to go and find Pompy. Pompy. Pompy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Finds head and hand. >> Finds head and hand. >> Finds head and hand. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And sticks about. >> And sticks about. >> And sticks about. >> Yeah. He's he's sticking around in Egypt >> Yeah. He's he's sticking around in Egypt >> Yeah. He's he's sticking around in Egypt in Alexandria. in Alexandria. in Alexandria. >> Um trying to figure out what he's going >> Um trying to figure out what he's going >> Um trying to figure out what he's going to do. to do. to do. >> There's a war going on there. And >> There's a war going on there. And >> There's a war going on there. And anytime the Romans see a war amongst anytime the Romans see a war amongst anytime the Romans see a war amongst people on the fringes, they see an people on the fringes, they see an people on the fringes, they see an opportunity to come in and intervene and opportunity to come in and intervene and opportunity to come in and intervene and uh that's a way to kind of extend your uh that's a way to kind of extend your uh that's a way to kind of extend your power and maybe end up controlling the power and maybe end up controlling the power and maybe end up controlling the place directly. Egypt is the most by far place directly. Egypt is the most by far place directly. Egypt is the most by far the richest um kingdom, land area in all the richest um kingdom, land area in all the richest um kingdom, land area in all the Mediterranean. the Mediterranean. the Mediterranean. >> Why? What have they got? >> Why? What have they got? >> Why? What have they got? >> They So, for one thing, they've got the >> They So, for one thing, they've got the >> They So, for one thing, they've got the Nile, which you know, you can like eat Nile, which you know, you can like eat Nile, which you know, you can like eat an apple and spit the seeds on the an apple and spit the seeds on the an apple and spit the seeds on the ground and get wonderful fruit. I mean ground and get wonderful fruit. I mean ground and get wonderful fruit. I mean it's incredibly fertile because of the it's incredibly fertile because of the it's incredibly fertile because of the flooding of the Nile. They've also got flooding of the Nile. They've also got flooding of the Nile. They've also got uh very very rich mines like mineral uh very very rich mines like mineral uh very very rich mines like mineral resources in the in the eastern desert resources in the in the eastern desert resources in the in the eastern desert especially. So you know p exotic marble especially. So you know p exotic marble especially. So you know p exotic marble porefree gems you know agot amethyst porefree gems you know agot amethyst porefree gems you know agot amethyst emerald I don't know what the difference emerald I don't know what the difference emerald I don't know what the difference between any of these things is frankly between any of these things is frankly between any of these things is frankly but um and they've got a lot of gold too but um and they've got a lot of gold too but um and they've got a lot of gold too in those mines. There's still gold in in those mines. There's still gold in in those mines. There's still gold in Egypt. They're still mining gold there. Egypt. They're still mining gold there. Egypt. They're still mining gold there. So it's incredibly rich. It's just, you So it's incredibly rich. It's just, you So it's incredibly rich. It's just, you know, Alexandria is a city of marble and know, Alexandria is a city of marble and know, Alexandria is a city of marble and gold. Um, and it ends up later becoming gold. Um, and it ends up later becoming gold. Um, and it ends up later becoming Rome's bread basket, you know, just you Rome's bread basket, you know, just you Rome's bread basket, you know, just you can feed the entire I you could feed a can feed the entire I you could feed a can feed the entire I you could feed a lot of people from from the Nile. Um, so lot of people from from the Nile. Um, so lot of people from from the Nile. Um, so and and Romans kind of like wanted and and Romans kind of like wanted and and Romans kind of like wanted there's, you know, Pompy wanted to there's, you know, Pompy wanted to there's, you know, Pompy wanted to intervene in Egypt. There was another intervene in Egypt. There was another intervene in Egypt. There was another conflict with the fat king that died, conflict with the fat king that died, conflict with the fat king that died, the father of Cleopatra and Tommy. And the father of Cleopatra and Tommy. And the father of Cleopatra and Tommy. And uh people were hoping to pluck that uh people were hoping to pluck that uh people were hoping to pluck that cherry, but it just never worked out. cherry, but it just never worked out. cherry, but it just never worked out. Like Egypt is kind of despite it's kind Like Egypt is kind of despite it's kind Like Egypt is kind of despite it's kind of incredible that Egypt was still of incredible that Egypt was still of incredible that Egypt was still independent at that point cuz Rome the independent at that point cuz Rome the independent at that point cuz Rome the Roman kind of greedy Roman uh governors Roman kind of greedy Roman uh governors Roman kind of greedy Roman uh governors had just been circling it like vultures had just been circling it like vultures had just been circling it like vultures and they just hadn't had their chance and they just hadn't had their chance and they just hadn't had their chance yet. Now Caesar has a chance, you know. yet. Now Caesar has a chance, you know. yet. Now Caesar has a chance, you know. >> Um but they don't want that to happen. >> Um but they don't want that to happen. >> Um but they don't want that to happen. So Cleopatra So Cleopatra So Cleopatra enters the story at this point. Caesar's enters the story at this point. Caesar's enters the story at this point. Caesar's in the Royal Palace in the Royal Palace in the Royal Palace and um and I don't if you've seen that and um and I don't if you've seen that and um and I don't if you've seen that movie with Elizabeth Taylor, the movie with Elizabeth Taylor, the movie with Elizabeth Taylor, the Cleopatra movie, but Cleopatra movie, but Cleopatra movie, but >> no. >> no. >> no. >> Uh so the way that they portray it in >> Uh so the way that they portray it in >> Uh so the way that they portray it in the movie is not that far off, but the movie is not that far off, but the movie is not that far off, but basically Caesar's there in in a study basically Caesar's there in in a study basically Caesar's there in in a study in the library uh or in in the in the in the library uh or in in the in the in the library uh or in in the in the palace and um a servant comes in with a palace and um a servant comes in with a palace and um a servant comes in with a rug and he's like, "Caesar, we have a rug and he's like, "Caesar, we have a rug and he's like, "Caesar, we have a gift for you." and he says, "All right, gift for you." and he says, "All right, gift for you." and he says, "All right, well, what's in what's in the rug?" And well, what's in what's in the rug?" And well, what's in what's in the rug?" And he tries to threatens to poke at it, but he tries to threatens to poke at it, but he tries to threatens to poke at it, but basically Cleopatra sneaks herself in on basically Cleopatra sneaks herself in on basically Cleopatra sneaks herself in on a little on a little raft and um is a little on a little raft and um is a little on a little raft and um is carried in as though she's a mattress as carried in as though she's a mattress as carried in as though she's a mattress as like a rolled up mattress is is what like a rolled up mattress is is what like a rolled up mattress is is what Plutarch says. Plutarch says. Plutarch says. >> Someone's got a yoga mat in her arm, but >> Someone's got a yoga mat in her arm, but >> Someone's got a yoga mat in her arm, but it's secretly Cleopatra. it's secretly Cleopatra. it's secretly Cleopatra. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then uh and then you >> Yeah. Yeah. And then uh and then you >> Yeah. Yeah. And then uh and then you know it's presented to Caesar as a gift. know it's presented to Caesar as a gift. know it's presented to Caesar as a gift. >> Jared, chat chat this image. Do you want >> Jared, chat chat this image. Do you want >> Jared, chat chat this image. Do you want to see what it looks like? to see what it looks like? to see what it looks like? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a great >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a great >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a great scene from uh from the Cleopatra. It's scene from uh from the Cleopatra. It's scene from uh from the Cleopatra. It's it's a rug in the in the movie which is it's a rug in the in the movie which is it's a rug in the in the movie which is a great movie and the most expensive a great movie and the most expensive a great movie and the most expensive movie ever when it was made. No way. movie ever when it was made. No way. movie ever when it was made. No way. Actually, yeah. 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Okay, so she gets carried in. in. in. >> So she gets carried in and uh you know >> So she gets carried in and uh you know >> So she gets carried in and uh you know she knows how to make an interest too. she knows how to make an interest too. she knows how to make an interest too. >> From that moment Caesar sees like all >> From that moment Caesar sees like all >> From that moment Caesar sees like all right this is this is another show right this is this is another show right this is this is another show person like myself. person like myself. person like myself. >> She's 20 years old. >> She's 20 years old. >> She's 20 years old. >> So she's the oldest of the siblings. >> So she's the oldest of the siblings. >> So she's the oldest of the siblings. >> Um speaks all kinds of languages. >> Um speaks all kinds of languages. >> Um speaks all kinds of languages. Obviously she knows she's a native Greek Obviously she knows she's a native Greek Obviously she knows she's a native Greek speaker. She speaks Egyptian and Latin speaker. She speaks Egyptian and Latin speaker. She speaks Egyptian and Latin and, you know, Syrian and and on and on. and, you know, Syrian and and on and on. and, you know, Syrian and and on and on. She's very very charming and clever. She She's very very charming and clever. She She's very very charming and clever. She might not have led with her looks, but might not have led with her looks, but might not have led with her looks, but you'll hear stories that Cleopatra was you'll hear stories that Cleopatra was you'll hear stories that Cleopatra was actually kind of ugly and she was, you actually kind of ugly and she was, you actually kind of ugly and she was, you know, more of a great conversation know, more of a great conversation know, more of a great conversation partner, but she was she was beautiful. partner, but she was she was beautiful. partner, but she was she was beautiful. Like she maybe she wasn't like a 10, but Like she maybe she wasn't like a 10, but Like she maybe she wasn't like a 10, but she was an eight at least. Um, yeah, she was an eight at least. Um, yeah, she was an eight at least. Um, yeah, that's a great image. See if you can do that's a great image. See if you can do that's a great image. See if you can do Cleopatra Elizabeth Taylor rug scene. Cleopatra Elizabeth Taylor rug scene. Cleopatra Elizabeth Taylor rug scene. See if that turns up some results. See if that turns up some results. See if that turns up some results. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, and um, and um, and um, and she had a knack for power. Like, she and she had a knack for power. Like, she and she had a knack for power. Like, she knows how to play the heartstrings of a knows how to play the heartstrings of a knows how to play the heartstrings of a man. She's uh um man. She's uh um man. She's uh um she's got she knows Caesar's weakness. she's got she knows Caesar's weakness. she's got she knows Caesar's weakness. Caesar has his weakness for smart, high Caesar has his weakness for smart, high Caesar has his weakness for smart, high status women. status women. status women. >> He's on his third wife now, but she's >> He's on his third wife now, but she's >> He's on his third wife now, but she's back in Rome. Yeah. Yeah. You want to back in Rome. Yeah. Yeah. You want to back in Rome. Yeah. Yeah. You want to play it? play it? play it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> The rug is such a delicate weave, if I >> The rug is such a delicate weave, if I >> The rug is such a delicate weave, if I may untie it for you. may untie it for you. may untie it for you. >> Turn it over first. >> Turn it over first. >> Turn it over first. >> But the rug is now right side up. >> But the rug is now right side up. >> But the rug is now right side up. >> I understand, but I want it the wrong >> I understand, but I want it the wrong >> I understand, but I want it the wrong side up. Or should I flip it over with side up. Or should I flip it over with side up. Or should I flip it over with my saw? my saw? my saw? >> No, no, no. I find one can tell more about the I find one can tell more about the quality of merchandise by examining the quality of merchandise by examining the quality of merchandise by examining the uh backside first. All hail Cleopatra, kindred of Horus and All hail Cleopatra, kindred of Horus and Ra, beloved of the moon and sun, Ra, beloved of the moon and sun, Ra, beloved of the moon and sun, daughter to Isis, and of upper and lower daughter to Isis, and of upper and lower daughter to Isis, and of upper and lower Egypt, queen >> So, yeah, she knows how to make an >> So, yeah, she knows how to make an interest, right? It was something like interest, right? It was something like interest, right? It was something like that. That's not far off. that. That's not far off. that. That's not far off. And um and she also knows how to play And um and she also knows how to play And um and she also knows how to play the kind of wound. I mean, I think the kind of wound. I mean, I think the kind of wound. I mean, I think Elizabeth Taylor does that really well. Elizabeth Taylor does that really well. Elizabeth Taylor does that really well. Oh, my back. Oh. Oh, let me help you up, Oh, my back. Oh. Oh, let me help you up, Oh, my back. Oh. Oh, let me help you up, madam. Um, and so basically Cleopatra madam. Um, and so basically Cleopatra madam. Um, and so basically Cleopatra wins him over very quickly and uh wins him over very quickly and uh wins him over very quickly and uh because she does this she's she's sort because she does this she's she's sort because she does this she's she's sort of on the losing side of the war of on the losing side of the war of on the losing side of the war currently. currently. currently. Um, but Caesar says Um, but Caesar says Um, but Caesar says we can we can reconcile you you guys. we can we can reconcile you you guys. we can we can reconcile you you guys. I'll be your mediator and you know told I'll be your mediator and you know told I'll be your mediator and you know told him he hates this idea or his rather his him he hates this idea or his rather his him he hates this idea or his rather his unic and his general hate this idea unic and his general hate this idea unic and his general hate this idea because they know like it's nice that because they know like it's nice that because they know like it's nice that the unic has got such say here. Yeah. the unic has got such say here. Yeah. the unic has got such say here. Yeah. Let's listen to the guy that chopped his Let's listen to the guy that chopped his Let's listen to the guy that chopped his dick off. dick off. dick off. >> Yeah. Well, you he's a very learned man. >> Yeah. Well, you he's a very learned man. >> Yeah. Well, you he's a very learned man. You know, he has other talents. You know, he has other talents. You know, he has other talents. >> Well, he's got nothing else to do, >> Well, he's got nothing else to do, >> Well, he's got nothing else to do, >> right? >> right? >> right? Um, and you know, of I think I don't Um, and you know, of I think I don't Um, and you know, of I think I don't know how they did this in Egypt, but know how they did this in Egypt, but know how they did this in Egypt, but often like it would be the parents that often like it would be the parents that often like it would be the parents that did it to like did it to like did it to like >> it's an offering. >> it's an offering. >> it's an offering. >> Yeah. Promote the kid. And >> Yeah. Promote the kid. And >> Yeah. Promote the kid. And >> Yeah. There's there's something really >> Yeah. There's there's something really >> Yeah. There's there's something really >> You got to do it with the second one. If >> You got to do it with the second one. If >> You got to do it with the second one. If you do it with the first one, like if we you do it with the first one, like if we you do it with the first one, like if we don't have another one, that's the end don't have another one, that's the end don't have another one, that's the end of the bloodline. of the bloodline. of the bloodline. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Um, but if he does well, you know, he >> Um, but if he does well, you know, he >> Um, but if he does well, you know, he could he could do great things for his could he could do great things for his could he could do great things for his nephews at least. nephews at least. nephews at least. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way to make that a good deal. There's no way to make that a good deal. There's no way to make that a good deal. Uh so uh anyway, Caesar uh basically Uh so uh anyway, Caesar uh basically Uh so uh anyway, Caesar uh basically offers to moderate between them and the offers to moderate between them and the offers to moderate between them and the offer is uh rejected and long story offer is uh rejected and long story offer is uh rejected and long story short, he ends up picking Cleopatra and short, he ends up picking Cleopatra and short, he ends up picking Cleopatra and uh Toli ends up who's the younger uh Toli ends up who's the younger uh Toli ends up who's the younger brother. brother. brother. >> The younger brother. >> The younger brother. >> The younger brother. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yeah. He ends up uh sort of getting his >> Yeah. He ends up uh sort of getting his >> Yeah. He ends up uh sort of getting his hand forced by his um by his general hand forced by his um by his general hand forced by his um by his general Achilles and and the unic and they try Achilles and and the unic and they try Achilles and and the unic and they try to have another like coup attempt to have another like coup attempt to have another like coup attempt against Caesar. Caesar defeats them and against Caesar. Caesar defeats them and against Caesar. Caesar defeats them and the boy is um apparently drowned in the the boy is um apparently drowned in the the boy is um apparently drowned in the Nile in a boating. Nile in a boating. Nile in a boating. >> The younger brother. >> The younger brother. >> The younger brother. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like not not like he's >> Yeah. Yeah. Like not not like he's >> Yeah. Yeah. Like not not like he's murdered but there was a battle and he murdered but there was a battle and he murdered but there was a battle and he was just not found. Probably drowned in was just not found. Probably drowned in was just not found. Probably drowned in the Nile. Um it was um the Nile. Um it was um the Nile. Um it was um >> tight family with the tolamese then. >> tight family with the tolamese then. >> tight family with the tolamese then. >> I mean they are always trying to murder >> I mean they are always trying to murder >> I mean they are always trying to murder each other and and one up each other and each other and and one up each other and each other and and one up each other and and and sure enough like Cleopatra has and and sure enough like Cleopatra has and and sure enough like Cleopatra has this younger sister too arinoi and she this younger sister too arinoi and she this younger sister too arinoi and she tries to revolt and Caesar crushes her tries to revolt and Caesar crushes her tries to revolt and Caesar crushes her as well and actually captures her and as well and actually captures her and as well and actually captures her and takes her back to Rome and uh marshes takes her back to Rome and uh marshes takes her back to Rome and uh marshes her in the triumph. her in the triumph. her in the triumph. >> Was there any suggestion that Cleopatra >> Was there any suggestion that Cleopatra >> Was there any suggestion that Cleopatra and Caesar got it on? Oh, more than a and Caesar got it on? Oh, more than a and Caesar got it on? Oh, more than a suggestion. Like they become lovers like suggestion. Like they become lovers like suggestion. Like they become lovers like for real and they have a kid too, which for real and they have a kid too, which for real and they have a kid too, which is is is fascinating to think about the fascinating to think about the fascinating to think about the ramifications of this. But so yeah, ramifications of this. But so yeah, ramifications of this. But so yeah, basically Caesar's never going to turn basically Caesar's never going to turn basically Caesar's never going to turn down a down a down a a good offer from a high status woman. a good offer from a high status woman. a good offer from a high status woman. And you know, she's a living goddess by And you know, she's a living goddess by And you know, she's a living goddess by Egyptian tradition. She is Egyptian tradition. She is Egyptian tradition. She is >> daughter of Isis, >> daughter of Isis, >> daughter of Isis, >> daughter of Isis. not just daughter of >> daughter of Isis. not just daughter of >> daughter of Isis. not just daughter of Isis, but living embodiment of Isis. Isis, but living embodiment of Isis. Isis, but living embodiment of Isis. Like just like she said, there there's a Like just like she said, there there's a Like just like she said, there there's a kind of uh you know, fully God, but kind of uh you know, fully God, but kind of uh you know, fully God, but fully human sort of thing going on with fully human sort of thing going on with fully human sort of thing going on with with the pharaohs. with the pharaohs. with the pharaohs. >> Uh son of son and kind of like divine >> Uh son of son and kind of like divine >> Uh son of son and kind of like divine avatar of Aman Rah or is it um Osir it's avatar of Aman Rah or is it um Osir it's avatar of Aman Rah or is it um Osir it's Osiris with the pharaohs. So anyway, Osiris with the pharaohs. So anyway, Osiris with the pharaohs. So anyway, she's worshiped as a divinity while she's worshiped as a divinity while she's worshiped as a divinity while she's alive. there's great um reliefs she's alive. there's great um reliefs she's alive. there's great um reliefs like so she she gets portrayed as a like so she she gets portrayed as a like so she she gets portrayed as a Greek to her Greek subjects as the Greek to her Greek subjects as the Greek to her Greek subjects as the tomies do like you know looks like a tomies do like you know looks like a tomies do like you know looks like a normal human kind of classical statue normal human kind of classical statue normal human kind of classical statue face and then there are reliefs of her face and then there are reliefs of her face and then there are reliefs of her portrayed as like an Egyptian portrayed as like an Egyptian portrayed as like an Egyptian hieroglyphic lady too hieroglyphic lady too hieroglyphic lady too >> might be worth pulling up >> might be worth pulling up >> might be worth pulling up >> Jared I want to see this >> Jared I want to see this >> Jared I want to see this >> Cleopatra Egyptian relief something like >> Cleopatra Egyptian relief something like >> Cleopatra Egyptian relief something like that that that a really interesting place you know to a really interesting place you know to a really interesting place you know to Alexandria Alexandria Alexandria Um, Um, Um, >> it's blending two things together. It >> it's blending two things together. It >> it's blending two things together. It feels like the phasing out of the old feels like the phasing out of the old feels like the phasing out of the old world and the phasing in of what would world and the phasing in of what would world and the phasing in of what would sort of become this what then would be sort of become this what then would be sort of become this what then would be more cosmopolitan, what then would be more cosmopolitan, what then would be more cosmopolitan, what then would be built more around rhetoric, philosophy, built more around rhetoric, philosophy, built more around rhetoric, philosophy, what then would have been seen as modern what then would have been seen as modern what then would have been seen as modern and sort of this sort of passing off, and sort of this sort of passing off, and sort of this sort of passing off, but you've got that both of them are but you've got that both of them are but you've got that both of them are happening at the same time. And I guess happening at the same time. And I guess happening at the same time. And I guess it there you go. That's her and I think it there you go. That's her and I think it there you go. That's her and I think that's her and her brother. Oh, that's that's her and her brother. Oh, that's that's her and her brother. Oh, that's her son Cesarian. So there is Cleopatra her son Cesarian. So there is Cleopatra her son Cesarian. So there is Cleopatra on the left. Um, and the other one is on the left. Um, and the other one is on the left. Um, and the other one is the son of Julius Caesar. That's their the son of Julius Caesar. That's their the son of Julius Caesar. That's their kid, Cesar. kid, Cesar. kid, Cesar. >> No way. The image on the left. Open that >> No way. The image on the left. Open that >> No way. The image on the left. Open that up, Jared. up, Jared. up, Jared. >> So there you go. >> So there you go. >> So there you go. >> Wow. Yeah. So that's proper 3000 BC >> Wow. Yeah. So that's proper 3000 BC >> Wow. Yeah. So that's proper 3000 BC looking, looking, looking, >> right? Like that you could that could be >> right? Like that you could that could be >> right? Like that you could that could be like scratched into a pyramid. You like scratched into a pyramid. You like scratched into a pyramid. You wouldn't know the difference. wouldn't know the difference. wouldn't know the difference. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh god. And >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh god. And >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh god. And there's a guy in the bottom corner. Look there's a guy in the bottom corner. Look there's a guy in the bottom corner. Look at how huge that is. really big. at how huge that is. really big. at how huge that is. really big. >> Holy [ __ ] And that's the son >> Holy [ __ ] And that's the son >> Holy [ __ ] And that's the son >> that's the, you know, illegitimate son >> that's the, you know, illegitimate son >> that's the, you know, illegitimate son of Cleopatra. And of Cleopatra. And of Cleopatra. And >> not that illegitimate. I mean, he's 15t >> not that illegitimate. I mean, he's 15t >> not that illegitimate. I mean, he's 15t tall. Pretty legit to me. tall. Pretty legit to me. tall. Pretty legit to me. >> Yeah. Exactly. What was he called? >> Yeah. Exactly. What was he called? >> Yeah. Exactly. What was he called? >> Cesarion is was his nickname. Little >> Cesarion is was his nickname. Little >> Cesarion is was his nickname. Little Caesar. Caesar. Caesar. >> Yes. He started a great pizza chain and >> Yes. He started a great pizza chain and >> Yes. He started a great pizza chain and uh didn't go so well. uh didn't go so well. uh didn't go so well. >> And then he became a pizza magnate. >> And then he became a pizza magnate. >> And then he became a pizza magnate. >> Saw where the real money was. >> Saw where the real money was. >> Saw where the real money was. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but he uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but he uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but he uh his his his official name was I think his his his official name was I think his his his official name was I think like Tomlamy the 14th, you know, like like Tomlamy the 14th, you know, like like Tomlamy the 14th, you know, like every single freaking person in that every single freaking person in that every single freaking person in that dynasty is named Tlamy if they're a boy dynasty is named Tlamy if they're a boy dynasty is named Tlamy if they're a boy or or or >> either Cleopatra or Arsenoi. >> either Cleopatra or Arsenoi. >> either Cleopatra or Arsenoi. >> And there's not a lot of names. I think >> And there's not a lot of names. I think >> And there's not a lot of names. I think that might have something to do with that might have something to do with that might have something to do with this idea that like you you continue to this idea that like you you continue to this idea that like you you continue to be the embodiment of the same god be the embodiment of the same god be the embodiment of the same god through the generations. So you like through the generations. So you like through the generations. So you like have to take on that dynastic. have to take on that dynastic. have to take on that dynastic. >> You know Dollali's story, Salvador >> You know Dollali's story, Salvador >> You know Dollali's story, Salvador Dolly. Dolly. Dolly. >> I don't know if I do. So his parents had >> I don't know if I do. So his parents had >> I don't know if I do. So his parents had a son about a son about a son about a year or so, year and a half before a year or so, year and a half before a year or so, year and a half before Dari was born. No, sorry, two years Dari was born. No, sorry, two years Dari was born. No, sorry, two years before Dari was born. Uh who was also before Dari was born. Uh who was also before Dari was born. Uh who was also called Salvador and they that son died. called Salvador and they that son died. called Salvador and they that son died. And then they had another son and called And then they had another son and called And then they had another son and called him the same name. And when he was aged him the same name. And when he was aged him the same name. And when he was aged two took him to his dead brother's grave two took him to his dead brother's grave two took him to his dead brother's grave and said, "This is who you are. This is and said, "This is who you are. This is and said, "This is who you are. This is you. You are the reincarnation of your you. You are the reincarnation of your you. You are the reincarnation of your dead brother." Wow. I mean, it's just dead brother." Wow. I mean, it's just dead brother." Wow. I mean, it's just you. It's you again. So, that was the you. It's you again. So, that was the you. It's you again. So, that was the start of his life. He's Dari's [ __ ] start of his life. He's Dari's [ __ ] start of his life. He's Dari's [ __ ] fascinating. But, yeah, that was how he fascinating. But, yeah, that was how he fascinating. But, yeah, that was how he was sort of brought into the world as was sort of brought into the world as was sort of brought into the world as this this this >> weird uh recreation of a dead baby. >> weird uh recreation of a dead baby. >> weird uh recreation of a dead baby. >> That is amazing. >> That is amazing. >> That is amazing. >> Yeah. Cool. E. All right. So, what was >> Yeah. Cool. E. All right. So, what was >> Yeah. Cool. E. All right. So, what was Caesar's last night? Like you mentioned Caesar's last night? Like you mentioned Caesar's last night? Like you mentioned he's accumulated a bunch of enemies, but he's accumulated a bunch of enemies, but he's accumulated a bunch of enemies, but maybe not shaken the etcher sketch maybe not shaken the etcher sketch maybe not shaken the etcher sketch enough to actually get rid of them all. enough to actually get rid of them all. enough to actually get rid of them all. Keeps pardoning them. He's maybe Keeps pardoning them. He's maybe Keeps pardoning them. He's maybe erroneously deciding to be uh uh erroneously deciding to be uh uh erroneously deciding to be uh uh forgiving. forgiving. forgiving. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> What does the final day of Caesar's life >> What does the final day of Caesar's life >> What does the final day of Caesar's life look like? So, um the leadup to this is look like? So, um the leadup to this is look like? So, um the leadup to this is important because Caesar is uh important because Caesar is uh important because Caesar is uh you know, he he knows that there are you know, he he knows that there are you know, he he knows that there are assassination plots. There were even assassination plots. There were even assassination plots. There were even assassination plots 18 months earlier assassination plots 18 months earlier assassination plots 18 months earlier when he got back to Rome finally from when he got back to Rome finally from when he got back to Rome finally from the African campaign where he u defeated the African campaign where he u defeated the African campaign where he u defeated Ko and friends and Cicero mentions this Ko and friends and Cicero mentions this Ko and friends and Cicero mentions this in a speech. He gives a speech in front in a speech. He gives a speech in front in a speech. He gives a speech in front of Caesar. He's like Caesar um of Caesar. He's like Caesar um of Caesar. He's like Caesar um I have heard it is it has been said that I have heard it is it has been said that I have heard it is it has been said that you you tell people I have lived long you you tell people I have lived long you you tell people I have lived long enough either for nature or for glory enough either for nature or for glory enough either for nature or for glory because he knows about assassination because he knows about assassination because he knows about assassination attempts and he dismisses them. says, attempts and he dismisses them. says, attempts and he dismisses them. says, "You know what? If they want to kill me, "You know what? If they want to kill me, "You know what? If they want to kill me, I've had a good run." I've had a good run." I've had a good run." >> How old is he at this point? >> How old is he at this point? >> How old is he at this point? >> He is, so this is 46 when he gets back. >> He is, so this is 46 when he gets back. >> He is, so this is 46 when he gets back. So, he would be 54, born in 100 BC. So, he would be 54, born in 100 BC. So, he would be 54, born in 100 BC. >> Uh, and 44 is is the eyides of March >> Uh, and 44 is is the eyides of March >> Uh, and 44 is is the eyides of March when he dies. So, that's that's how old when he dies. So, that's that's how old when he dies. So, that's that's how old he ends up being. But, I mean, you know, he ends up being. But, I mean, you know, he ends up being. But, I mean, you know, that's pretty old for a Roman. Like, that's pretty old for a Roman. Like, that's pretty old for a Roman. Like, he's had a pretty good run so far. he's had a pretty good run so far. he's had a pretty good run so far. And uh but he dismisses these these uh And uh but he dismisses these these uh And uh but he dismisses these these uh these um plots these um plots these um plots and you know the information just keeps and you know the information just keeps and you know the information just keeps coming in. Sure. And sure people are coming in. Sure. And sure people are coming in. Sure. And sure people are trying to kill you. Caesar, can you trying to kill you. Caesar, can you trying to kill you. Caesar, can you please up your security detail? Can you please up your security detail? Can you please up your security detail? Can you please give yourself a bodyguard? Like please give yourself a bodyguard? Like please give yourself a bodyguard? Like we're begging you. His friends are we're begging you. His friends are we're begging you. His friends are begging him. And he says not going to do begging him. And he says not going to do begging him. And he says not going to do that. That's what tyrants do. And sure that. That's what tyrants do. And sure that. That's what tyrants do. And sure enough, like this is the kind of classic enough, like this is the kind of classic enough, like this is the kind of classic mo mold of how tyrants seize power by mo mold of how tyrants seize power by mo mold of how tyrants seize power by cystus at Athens. I mean, you can cystus at Athens. I mean, you can cystus at Athens. I mean, you can multiply a lot of examples. You get a multiply a lot of examples. You get a multiply a lot of examples. You get a bodyguard first. You say, "Oh no, bodyguard first. You say, "Oh no, bodyguard first. You say, "Oh no, there's threats against my life. I need there's threats against my life. I need there's threats against my life. I need a bodyguard, citizens. I just want to be a bodyguard, citizens. I just want to be a bodyguard, citizens. I just want to be your servant." And and and then that's your servant." And and and then that's your servant." And and and then that's how you seize power. And Caesar knows how you seize power. And Caesar knows how you seize power. And Caesar knows that that's the pattern. He's not going that that's the pattern. He's not going that that's the pattern. He's not going to do it. And and it comes the point to do it. And and it comes the point to do it. And and it comes the point where people are continuing to bring in where people are continuing to bring in where people are continuing to bring in names of potential names of potential names of potential conspirators. And Caesar says, "I've had conspirators. And Caesar says, "I've had conspirators. And Caesar says, "I've had it. Anybody bringing me more talk about it. Anybody bringing me more talk about it. Anybody bringing me more talk about an assassination plot is going to face an assassination plot is going to face an assassination plot is going to face consequences." He's like, "You're gonna consequences." He's like, "You're gonna consequences." He's like, "You're gonna get fired if I hear another about you get fired if I hear another about you get fired if I hear another about you bringing me an assassination plot." He bringing me an assassination plot." He bringing me an assassination plot." He doesn't want to he doesn't want to hear doesn't want to he doesn't want to hear doesn't want to he doesn't want to hear it. I think that's because it. I think that's because it. I think that's because he didn't want to rule over he didn't want to rule over he didn't want to rule over a subjugated, a subjugated, a subjugated, you know, cowed populace. He wanted to you know, cowed populace. He wanted to you know, cowed populace. He wanted to rule over free Romans. rule over free Romans. rule over free Romans. Um and he didn't want a police state. He Um and he didn't want a police state. He Um and he didn't want a police state. He didn't want he wanted people to feel didn't want he wanted people to feel didn't want he wanted people to feel free to say what they whatever they free to say what they whatever they free to say what they whatever they wanted to say. Uh this is clearly wanted to say. Uh this is clearly wanted to say. Uh this is clearly demonstrated by a lot of his actions. demonstrated by a lot of his actions. demonstrated by a lot of his actions. You know, people are criticizing him. You know, people are criticizing him. You know, people are criticizing him. They're making jokes about at Caesar's They're making jokes about at Caesar's They're making jokes about at Caesar's expense. You there's certain lines that expense. You there's certain lines that expense. You there's certain lines that you don't cross. Um but he doesn't want you don't cross. Um but he doesn't want you don't cross. Um but he doesn't want to um up his security detail. the very to um up his security detail. the very to um up his security detail. the very last night the 14th of March he, the 14th of March he, you know, it's a normal day of business, you know, it's a normal day of business, you know, it's a normal day of business, busy day at at work. He's got this busy day at at work. He's got this busy day at at work. He's got this incredible incredible incredible crushing burden of, you know, cases to crushing burden of, you know, cases to crushing burden of, you know, cases to hear and petitions and laws needing hear and petitions and laws needing hear and petitions and laws needing passing. And he's also preparing for passing. And he's also preparing for passing. And he's also preparing for this great expedition to Partha. He's this great expedition to Partha. He's this great expedition to Partha. He's going to avenge Craas. Craas was killed going to avenge Craas. Craas was killed going to avenge Craas. Craas was killed by the Parththeians. They captured Roman by the Parththeians. They captured Roman by the Parththeians. They captured Roman eagles about 10 years earlier. So, he's eagles about 10 years earlier. So, he's eagles about 10 years earlier. So, he's he's just trying to get get through the he's just trying to get get through the he's just trying to get get through the next 3 days to get out of town and go next 3 days to get out of town and go next 3 days to get out of town and go back to I mean Caesar was good at back to I mean Caesar was good at back to I mean Caesar was good at politics, but I think better at war. politics, but I think better at war. politics, but I think better at war. >> I think he's better at war. >> I think he's better at war. >> I think he's better at war. >> Yeah. Or he's equally as good at war and >> Yeah. Or he's equally as good at war and >> Yeah. Or he's equally as good at war and it's probably a happier place for him. it's probably a happier place for him. it's probably a happier place for him. >> Even in BC times, people were still >> Even in BC times, people were still >> Even in BC times, people were still drowning in admin is what you're saying. drowning in admin is what you're saying. drowning in admin is what you're saying. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, like the load that >> Oh, yeah. I mean, like the load that >> Oh, yeah. I mean, like the load that he's carrying. he's carrying. he's carrying. Yeah. It's it's a universal problem. Yeah. It's it's a universal problem. Yeah. It's it's a universal problem. Once they invent writing, you know, it's Once they invent writing, you know, it's Once they invent writing, you know, it's it's over. it's over. it's over. >> [ __ ] game over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> [ __ ] game over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> [ __ ] game over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the email inbox of ancient Rome. It's the email inbox of ancient Rome. It's the email inbox of ancient Rome. >> Yeah. And it's funny you should mention >> Yeah. And it's funny you should mention >> Yeah. And it's funny you should mention email. So, um, on the last night, email. So, um, on the last night, email. So, um, on the last night, Caesar is having dinner. As you know, he Caesar is having dinner. As you know, he Caesar is having dinner. As you know, he he has a like formal dinner every night. he has a like formal dinner every night. he has a like formal dinner every night. There's like nine seats at a typical There's like nine seats at a typical There's like nine seats at a typical Roman feast. You you circle around on Roman feast. You you circle around on Roman feast. You you circle around on couches around a central table and couches around a central table and couches around a central table and everybody kind of lies down. It's It's everybody kind of lies down. It's It's everybody kind of lies down. It's It's weird, but that's how they did it. weird, but that's how they did it. weird, but that's how they did it. >> And uh >> And uh >> And uh >> horrible for the digestion. >> horrible for the digestion. >> horrible for the digestion. >> It's horrible for the dig digestion, but >> It's horrible for the dig digestion, but >> It's horrible for the dig digestion, but one advantage is everybody has to have one advantage is everybody has to have one advantage is everybody has to have the same conversation cuz you're all the same conversation cuz you're all the same conversation cuz you're all pointed toward the center of the circle. pointed toward the center of the circle. pointed toward the center of the circle. >> Yeah. As opposed to an elongated table >> Yeah. As opposed to an elongated table >> Yeah. As opposed to an elongated table where this group over there is speaking where this group over there is speaking where this group over there is speaking like that and this group. That's like that and this group. That's like that and this group. That's interesting. I remember um was it interesting. I remember um was it interesting. I remember um was it >> who was it that suggested that the size >> who was it that suggested that the size >> who was it that suggested that the size of glasses of wine were getting too big of glasses of wine were getting too big of glasses of wine were getting too big around the table? Was it maybe around the table? Was it maybe around the table? Was it maybe Aristotle? Aristotle? Aristotle? >> And he made a special kind of cup and if >> And he made a special kind of cup and if >> And he made a special kind of cup and if you overfilled the cup, the entire thing you overfilled the cup, the entire thing you overfilled the cup, the entire thing drained. drained. drained. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Basically his problem was that he wanted >> Basically his problem was that he wanted >> Basically his problem was that he wanted to have these really interesting to have these really interesting to have these really interesting conversations at dinner and people were conversations at dinner and people were conversations at dinner and people were just getting too drunk. This is before just getting too drunk. This is before just getting too drunk. This is before coffee came around and there's this coffee came around and there's this coffee came around and there's this interesting story which interesting story which interesting story which >> before I mean they should have had the >> before I mean they should have had the >> before I mean they should have had the neutropic toothpicks. um neutropic toothpicks. um neutropic toothpicks. um you there's that big transition was in you there's that big transition was in you there's that big transition was in sort of the middle ages in uh the UK sort of the middle ages in uh the UK sort of the middle ages in uh the UK where Britain started to go from just where Britain started to go from just where Britain started to go from just having ale houses to having uh coffee having ale houses to having uh coffee having ale houses to having uh coffee shops as well and this is a boon in uh shops as well and this is a boon in uh shops as well and this is a boon in uh innovation because people aren't just innovation because people aren't just innovation because people aren't just pissed all the time they're just not pissed all the time they're just not pissed all the time they're just not drunk as much they're stimulated and drunk as much they're stimulated and drunk as much they're stimulated and they're going and getting stuff done they're going and getting stuff done they're going and getting stuff done anyway I think it's Aristotle that had anyway I think it's Aristotle that had anyway I think it's Aristotle that had this issue this issue this issue >> and his problem was I want to go to >> and his problem was I want to go to >> and his problem was I want to go to dinner and have all of these interesting dinner and have all of these interesting dinner and have all of these interesting conversations, but everybody drinks conversations, but everybody drinks conversations, but everybody drinks their wine so fast. their wine so fast. their wine so fast. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That the the conversation degenerates >> That the the conversation degenerates >> That the the conversation degenerates into nothingness. So his suggestion was into nothingness. So his suggestion was into nothingness. So his suggestion was to his host to make the cup smaller. to his host to make the cup smaller. to his host to make the cup smaller. Says people will drink the same number, Says people will drink the same number, Says people will drink the same number, but they'll not realize that they're but they'll not realize that they're but they'll not realize that they're having less. And supposed to be I think having less. And supposed to be I think having less. And supposed to be I think it's like an Arisatilian cup. Jared, do it's like an Arisatilian cup. Jared, do it's like an Arisatilian cup. Jared, do a chachi search. What was the ancient a chachi search. What was the ancient a chachi search. What was the ancient cup that was made to ensure people cup that was made to ensure people cup that was made to ensure people didn't overfill it? Uh maybe Aristotle. didn't overfill it? Uh maybe Aristotle. didn't overfill it? Uh maybe Aristotle. And it's this interesting this And it's this interesting this And it's this interesting this interesting point that okay, well, if we interesting point that okay, well, if we interesting point that okay, well, if we reduce it down, it means that the reduce it down, it means that the reduce it down, it means that the conversational quality will be a bit conversational quality will be a bit conversational quality will be a bit better. But I suppose if you're sat in a better. But I suppose if you're sat in a better. But I suppose if you're sat in a you're probably thinking of the you're probably thinking of the you're probably thinking of the Pythagorean cup. Pythagorean cup. Pythagorean cup. >> Yeah. Also called the cup of greed or >> Yeah. Also called the cup of greed or >> Yeah. Also called the cup of greed or greedy cup. It's a special drinking cup greedy cup. It's a special drinking cup greedy cup. It's a special drinking cup from ancient Greece designed so that if from ancient Greece designed so that if from ancient Greece designed so that if you fill it past a certain level, it you fill it past a certain level, it you fill it past a certain level, it empties completely. empties completely. empties completely. >> H >> H >> H >> Isn't that cool? >> Isn't that cool? >> Isn't that cool? >> That's brilliant. Oh, because it's a >> That's brilliant. Oh, because it's a >> That's brilliant. Oh, because it's a siphon. Yeah, that's right. siphon. Yeah, that's right. siphon. Yeah, that's right. >> It's got a hidden siphon inside the >> It's got a hidden siphon inside the >> It's got a hidden siphon inside the central collet. If you pour wine below central collet. If you pour wine below central collet. If you pour wine below the mark line, the cup works normally. the mark line, the cup works normally. the mark line, the cup works normally. If you pour above the line, the siphon If you pour above the line, the siphon If you pour above the line, the siphon activates and the entire cup drains out activates and the entire cup drains out activates and the entire cup drains out through the bottom of the stem. For through the bottom of the stem. For through the bottom of the stem. For someone who tries to take more than someone who tries to take more than someone who tries to take more than their fair share, they end up with their fair share, they end up with their fair share, they end up with nothing. Legend says Pythagoras used it nothing. Legend says Pythagoras used it nothing. Legend says Pythagoras used it to teach moderation and fairness among to teach moderation and fairness among to teach moderation and fairness among workers or students. And the lesson is workers or students. And the lesson is workers or students. And the lesson is greed causes you to lose everything. greed causes you to lose everything. greed causes you to lose everything. Isn't Isn't Isn't >> that [ __ ] cool? >> that [ __ ] cool? >> that [ __ ] cool? >> So Greek, >> So Greek, >> So Greek, >> that say >> that say >> that say >> moderation. >> moderation. >> moderation. >> Yeah. Wise man, Pythagoras. Well, you >> Yeah. Wise man, Pythagoras. Well, you >> Yeah. Wise man, Pythagoras. Well, you know, it's funny because I mean, and in know, it's funny because I mean, and in know, it's funny because I mean, and in Plato's symposium that that they decide Plato's symposium that that they decide Plato's symposium that that they decide to pour the the wine, they pour water in to pour the the wine, they pour water in to pour the the wine, they pour water in the wine often for moderation so that the wine often for moderation so that the wine often for moderation so that >> you drink you drink less. But they >> you drink you drink less. But they >> you drink you drink less. But they wanted to pour the wine really really wanted to pour the wine really really wanted to pour the wine really really light that night because they they all light that night because they they all light that night because they they all got smashed the night before and they got smashed the night before and they got smashed the night before and they want to have like a chill conversation want to have like a chill conversation want to have like a chill conversation that night. But Ko, Caesar's nemesis, that night. But Ko, Caesar's nemesis, that night. But Ko, Caesar's nemesis, was actually known to be a bit of a was actually known to be a bit of a was actually known to be a bit of a tippler. like he would he would often tippler. like he would he would often tippler. like he would he would often show up to the Senate kind of show up to the Senate kind of show up to the Senate kind of smelling of wine. smelling of wine. smelling of wine. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And but that would be because he liked >> And but that would be because he liked >> And but that would be because he liked to drink for a long time having to drink for a long time having to drink for a long time having philosophical conversations and it was philosophical conversations and it was philosophical conversations and it was it was this kind of conversation that it was this kind of conversation that it was this kind of conversation that that was happening Caesar's last night. that was happening Caesar's last night. that was happening Caesar's last night. So So So Caesar is at the house of Lepodus and he Caesar is at the house of Lepodus and he Caesar is at the house of Lepodus and he invites a number of people to the to be invites a number of people to the to be invites a number of people to the to be among the nine. Lepedus is um good good among the nine. Lepedus is um good good among the nine. Lepedus is um good good trusted friend of his and one of them is trusted friend of his and one of them is trusted friend of his and one of them is Desimus Brutus. This is not the the Desimus Brutus. This is not the the Desimus Brutus. This is not the the Brutus that appears in Shakespeare's Brutus that appears in Shakespeare's Brutus that appears in Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar, you know, and you play Julius Caesar, you know, and you play Julius Caesar, you know, and you too Brutus, it's a different Brutus, but too Brutus, it's a different Brutus, but too Brutus, it's a different Brutus, but actually was a Brutus that was closer to actually was a Brutus that was closer to actually was a Brutus that was closer to Caesar in in point of fact historically, Caesar in in point of fact historically, Caesar in in point of fact historically, funny enough. So does Shakespeare get funny enough. So does Shakespeare get funny enough. So does Shakespeare get that confused? that confused? that confused? >> Does he amalgamate the two on purpose? >> Does he amalgamate the two on purpose? >> Does he amalgamate the two on purpose? >> Plutarch gets it confused. This is like >> Plutarch gets it confused. This is like >> Plutarch gets it confused. This is like one of the one of the kind of flaws of one of the one of the kind of flaws of one of the one of the kind of flaws of Plutarch's um biography of Caesar. He Plutarch's um biography of Caesar. He Plutarch's um biography of Caesar. He thinks that um Marcus Brutus who is thinks that um Marcus Brutus who is thinks that um Marcus Brutus who is actually not I mean close to Caesar he actually not I mean close to Caesar he actually not I mean close to Caesar he is um because he's the son of Caesar's is um because he's the son of Caesar's is um because he's the son of Caesar's favorite girlfriend Cervilia favorite girlfriend Cervilia favorite girlfriend Cervilia but Desimus Brutus was a lot closer to but Desimus Brutus was a lot closer to but Desimus Brutus was a lot closer to him because he was a a lieutenant of his him because he was a a lieutenant of his him because he was a a lieutenant of his in Gaul. I mean they're distantly in Gaul. I mean they're distantly in Gaul. I mean they're distantly related these two Brutuses but they're related these two Brutuses but they're related these two Brutuses but they're not close or anything but Desimus was not close or anything but Desimus was not close or anything but Desimus was like naval commander against the Veneti. like naval commander against the Veneti. like naval commander against the Veneti. He's been brilliant in the civil war, He's been brilliant in the civil war, He's been brilliant in the civil war, crucial in the battle of Marseilles. And crucial in the battle of Marseilles. And crucial in the battle of Marseilles. And and in fact, Desimus Brutus was in his and in fact, Desimus Brutus was in his and in fact, Desimus Brutus was in his will as a second. Desimus is one of the will as a second. Desimus is one of the will as a second. Desimus is one of the men who who stabbed him the very next men who who stabbed him the very next men who who stabbed him the very next day. M day. M day. M >> he's sitting there with him at dinner >> he's sitting there with him at dinner >> he's sitting there with him at dinner the night before the night before the night before >> and they're they're they're sitting >> and they're they're they're sitting >> and they're they're they're sitting there having their conversation there having their conversation there having their conversation as one does as as you know a lot of as one does as as you know a lot of as one does as as you know a lot of final night scenes of uh you know great final night scenes of uh you know great final night scenes of uh you know great Romans and great Greeks are like these Romans and great Greeks are like these Romans and great Greeks are like these like philosophical conversations like philosophical conversations like philosophical conversations >> and I think that's because they had them >> and I think that's because they had them >> and I think that's because they had them a lot actually it's very normal a lot actually it's very normal a lot actually it's very normal >> and so like the last supper of Jesus >> and so like the last supper of Jesus >> and so like the last supper of Jesus that's I mean there were maybe a few that's I mean there were maybe a few that's I mean there were maybe a few additions But he was probably speaking additions But he was probably speaking additions But he was probably speaking like that most. like that most. like that most. >> Yeah, you they like all here we go >> Yeah, you they like all here we go >> Yeah, you they like all here we go again. again. again. >> Just a Tuesday. >> Just a Tuesday. >> Just a Tuesday. >> So Caesar is sitting there as the >> So Caesar is sitting there as the >> So Caesar is sitting there as the conversation's going on. I find this conversation's going on. I find this conversation's going on. I find this really fascinating. really fascinating. really fascinating. He's he's he's doing his clearing his He's he's he's doing his clearing his He's he's he's doing his clearing his inbox actually cuz he's a busy guy. One inbox actually cuz he's a busy guy. One inbox actually cuz he's a busy guy. One has to. And his secretary is sitting has to. And his secretary is sitting has to. And his secretary is sitting there kind of feeding him letters that there kind of feeding him letters that there kind of feeding him letters that need to go out that he needs to sign. need to go out that he needs to sign. need to go out that he needs to sign. And so he's writing sincerely on them, And so he's writing sincerely on them, And so he's writing sincerely on them, you know, signing his name, right? But you know, signing his name, right? But you know, signing his name, right? But the way you do that in Latin, the custom the way you do that in Latin, the custom the way you do that in Latin, the custom is you write valet, is you write valet, is you write valet, farewell. So all through the night, he's farewell. So all through the night, he's farewell. So all through the night, he's writing farewell, farewell, farewell on writing farewell, farewell, farewell on writing farewell, farewell, farewell on these letters. these letters. these letters. >> And that's what you would have done >> And that's what you would have done >> And that's what you would have done typically. typically. typically. >> That's what you would have done to say >> That's what you would have done to say >> That's what you would have done to say goodbye. Uh but but I mean the fact that goodbye. Uh but but I mean the fact that goodbye. Uh but but I mean the fact that he's like filling out letters during he's like filling out letters during he's like filling out letters during dinner. dinner. dinner. >> I mean this guy has got a >> I mean this guy has got a >> I mean this guy has got a >> [ __ ] ton of work to do. Yeah. And he's >> [ __ ] ton of work to do. Yeah. And he's >> [ __ ] ton of work to do. Yeah. And he's just trying to get it's brainless. He's just trying to get it's brainless. He's just trying to get it's brainless. He's just kind of just kind of just kind of >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Yes. And go >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Yes. And go >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Yes. And go on Casius. Yes. And um on Casius. Yes. And um on Casius. Yes. And um I find that striking. But at some point I find that striking. But at some point I find that striking. But at some point in the night he proposes a theme for the in the night he proposes a theme for the in the night he proposes a theme for the philosophical conversation that's going philosophical conversation that's going philosophical conversation that's going on. Desimus is sitting right there. what on. Desimus is sitting right there. what on. Desimus is sitting right there. what is the best kind of death? is the best kind of death? is the best kind of death? And the conversation goes this way and And the conversation goes this way and And the conversation goes this way and that way. Somebody brings up the example that way. Somebody brings up the example that way. Somebody brings up the example of Cyrus the Great, the great king of of Cyrus the Great, the great king of of Cyrus the Great, the great king of Persia who founded the Persian Empire. Persia who founded the Persian Empire. Persia who founded the Persian Empire. Um, Zenapon says, doesn't he, that Cyrus Um, Zenapon says, doesn't he, that Cyrus Um, Zenapon says, doesn't he, that Cyrus made all these arrangements before his made all these arrangements before his made all these arrangements before his death that he wanted to be buried in death that he wanted to be buried in death that he wanted to be buried in this way and this should happen and so this way and this should happen and so this way and this should happen and so forth after he was um after he was gone. forth after he was um after he was gone. forth after he was um after he was gone. And of course Caesar had read this book And of course Caesar had read this book And of course Caesar had read this book Zenapon Cyropidia. Zenapon Cyropidia. Zenapon Cyropidia. And Caesar's And Caesar's And Caesar's turn comes to him and he says that turn comes to him and he says that turn comes to him and he says that sounds horrible. I don't want a long sounds horrible. I don't want a long sounds horrible. I don't want a long slow death. The best kind of death is slow death. The best kind of death is slow death. The best kind of death is one that comes sudden, swift, and one that comes sudden, swift, and one that comes sudden, swift, and unexpected. You know what is Desimus thinking at You know what is Desimus thinking at that at that moment? But that that's that at that moment? But that that's that at that moment? But that that's well attested that that's what the well attested that that's what the well attested that that's what the conversation was about at some point conversation was about at some point conversation was about at some point that night. that night. that night. >> Prophetic. Yeah, man. And then he goes >> Prophetic. Yeah, man. And then he goes >> Prophetic. Yeah, man. And then he goes home late and bad dreams. His, you know, home late and bad dreams. His, you know, home late and bad dreams. His, you know, if you've heard the read the Shakespeare if you've heard the read the Shakespeare if you've heard the read the Shakespeare play, there's all these omens. You know, play, there's all these omens. You know, play, there's all these omens. You know, his wife has this dream that she's she his wife has this dream that she's she his wife has this dream that she's she gets him up in the middle of the night gets him up in the middle of the night gets him up in the middle of the night that like wind blows open the shutters that like wind blows open the shutters that like wind blows open the shutters and, you know, he has to get up and shut and, you know, he has to get up and shut and, you know, he has to get up and shut them and calm down Kalpernia. them and calm down Kalpernia. them and calm down Kalpernia. And um she had this dream that she was And um she had this dream that she was And um she had this dream that she was like holding the bloody Caesar like like holding the bloody Caesar like like holding the bloody Caesar like looking at their house as it's like looking at their house as it's like looking at their house as it's like burning and collapsing. burning and collapsing. burning and collapsing. And there's all these, you know, birds And there's all these, you know, birds And there's all these, you know, birds are acting weird. So the story goes. I are acting weird. So the story goes. I are acting weird. So the story goes. I mean, a lot of these omens typically mean, a lot of these omens typically mean, a lot of these omens typically happen around great events in the happen around great events in the happen around great events in the ancient sources, but you know, who ancient sources, but you know, who ancient sources, but you know, who knows? I mean I mean that the the murder knows? I mean I mean that the the murder knows? I mean I mean that the the murder of a guy like Julius Caesar really is a of a guy like Julius Caesar really is a of a guy like Julius Caesar really is a kind of like if if ever a death is a rip kind of like if if ever a death is a rip kind of like if if ever a death is a rip in the fabric of reality, you know, like in the fabric of reality, you know, like in the fabric of reality, you know, like that that comes pretty close. that that comes pretty close. that that comes pretty close. Um, so that was how he spent his last Um, so that was how he spent his last Um, so that was how he spent his last night. It's a very unsettled night. night. It's a very unsettled night. night. It's a very unsettled night. >> And what about the next day? >> And what about the next day? >> And what about the next day? So it's So it's So it's I think Caesar was um I think Caesar was um I think Caesar was um I he has a reputation for dismissing I he has a reputation for dismissing I he has a reputation for dismissing omens. He did this when he was console. omens. He did this when he was console. omens. He did this when he was console. You know his enemies are trying to You know his enemies are trying to You know his enemies are trying to obstruct him in in the um in the obstruct him in in the um in the obstruct him in in the um in the assemblies and they're they're saying, assemblies and they're they're saying, assemblies and they're they're saying, "Oh, I saw a bird flying the wrong way "Oh, I saw a bird flying the wrong way "Oh, I saw a bird flying the wrong way and I heard thunder. I heard thunder. and I heard thunder. I heard thunder. and I heard thunder. I heard thunder. It's a blue sky." And he's like, "I It's a blue sky." And he's like, "I It's a blue sky." And he's like, "I didn't hear you, though. let's get on didn't hear you, though. let's get on didn't hear you, though. let's get on with business. You know, he just ignores with business. You know, he just ignores with business. You know, he just ignores omens for most of his career. Sometimes omens for most of his career. Sometimes omens for most of his career. Sometimes the omens are bad and he's like, let's the omens are bad and he's like, let's the omens are bad and he's like, let's fight the battle anyway and he wins. fight the battle anyway and he wins. fight the battle anyway and he wins. But all these, you know, his wife is But all these, you know, his wife is But all these, you know, his wife is saying, I had a bad dream. I don't have saying, I had a bad dream. I don't have saying, I had a bad dream. I don't have a good feeling about this. And ancient a good feeling about this. And ancient a good feeling about this. And ancient omens, I think, are often omens, I think, are often omens, I think, are often kind of uh it's a system that's in kind of uh it's a system that's in kind of uh it's a system that's in place. So before you you go into a place. So before you you go into a place. So before you you go into a campaign, campaign, campaign, you before you go into battle, you you before you go into battle, you you before you go into battle, you sacrifice to the god. You know, you you sacrifice to the god. You know, you you sacrifice to the god. You know, you you cut open a piglet or a cut open a piglet or a cut open a piglet or a whatever it is, and you read the whatever it is, and you read the whatever it is, and you read the intrails or you get the sacred chickens intrails or you get the sacred chickens intrails or you get the sacred chickens out, and you see, do the sacred chickens out, and you see, do the sacred chickens out, and you see, do the sacred chickens want to eat their their uh their feed or want to eat their their uh their feed or want to eat their their uh their feed or are they staying in their cage? You are they staying in their cage? You are they staying in their cage? You know, what does this mean? And it's kind know, what does this mean? And it's kind know, what does this mean? And it's kind of like opening up a space for of like opening up a space for of like opening up a space for intuition. intuition. intuition. The generals often have to make The generals often have to make The generals often have to make decisions. Leaders often have to make decisions. Leaders often have to make decisions. Leaders often have to make decisions that decisions that decisions that could be the right decision, but to have could be the right decision, but to have could be the right decision, but to have to explain why you're making that to explain why you're making that to explain why you're making that decision is um decision is um decision is um would would would undermine the project would would would undermine the project would would would undermine the project somehow. Like you don't you want to have somehow. Like you don't you want to have somehow. Like you don't you want to have a a way of explaining intuition. That's a a way of explaining intuition. That's a a way of explaining intuition. That's that's how a lot of anthropologists that's how a lot of anthropologists that's how a lot of anthropologists explain. I think that's really explain. I think that's really explain. I think that's really compelling. Um but so I think his wife compelling. Um but so I think his wife compelling. Um but so I think his wife had a bad feeling. I think he had a bad had a bad feeling. I think he had a bad had a bad feeling. I think he had a bad feeling at some point. He was apparently feeling at some point. He was apparently feeling at some point. He was apparently kind of un like stomach issues. It's kind of un like stomach issues. It's kind of un like stomach issues. It's unspecified, but he felt like out of unspecified, but he felt like out of unspecified, but he felt like out of sorts that morning. sorts that morning. sorts that morning. >> And he was supposed to go to the Senate. >> And he was supposed to go to the Senate. >> And he was supposed to go to the Senate. There was some business, some important There was some business, some important There was some business, some important business at hand. They a dispute between business at hand. They a dispute between business at hand. They a dispute between Mark Anthony and uh Dolabella, blah blah Mark Anthony and uh Dolabella, blah blah Mark Anthony and uh Dolabella, blah blah blah. And he's like, "Maybe I don't want blah. And he's like, "Maybe I don't want blah. And he's like, "Maybe I don't want to go to the Senate today. I'm feeling to go to the Senate today. I'm feeling to go to the Senate today. I'm feeling out of sorts. My wife is telling me to out of sorts. My wife is telling me to out of sorts. My wife is telling me to stay home. stay home. stay home. uh he goes, you know, down the street. uh he goes, you know, down the street. uh he goes, you know, down the street. He he lives in the forum, the Senate's He he lives in the forum, the Senate's He he lives in the forum, the Senate's meeting about a mile away. He goes down meeting about a mile away. He goes down meeting about a mile away. He goes down the street to a buddy's house and to say the street to a buddy's house and to say the street to a buddy's house and to say hi and they they do a little sacrifice hi and they they do a little sacrifice hi and they they do a little sacrifice and that sacrifice contains bad omens. and that sacrifice contains bad omens. and that sacrifice contains bad omens. We don't know the details, but like he's We don't know the details, but like he's We don't know the details, but like he's this is really striking. So he they he this is really striking. So he they he this is really striking. So he they he decides to just stay home that day. And decides to just stay home that day. And decides to just stay home that day. And who shows up at his door? But Desimus who shows up at his door? But Desimus who shows up at his door? But Desimus Brutus, the guy he was having dinner Brutus, the guy he was having dinner Brutus, the guy he was having dinner with last night. He says, "Caesar, I with last night. He says, "Caesar, I with last night. He says, "Caesar, I heard that you are listening to the the heard that you are listening to the the heard that you are listening to the the ravings of a of a woman. I mean, I've ravings of a of a woman. I mean, I've ravings of a of a woman. I mean, I've never heard Caesar to be uh bothered by never heard Caesar to be uh bothered by never heard Caesar to be uh bothered by omens in his career. Think of all the omens in his career. Think of all the omens in his career. Think of all the battles that we've won after bad omens. battles that we've won after bad omens. battles that we've won after bad omens. Like, come on, Caesar. Let's, you know, Like, come on, Caesar. Let's, you know, Like, come on, Caesar. Let's, you know, the Senate's counting on you. They they the Senate's counting on you. They they the Senate's counting on you. They they all cleared their schedules. They're all cleared their schedules. They're all cleared their schedules. They're busy men. And you know, you're really busy men. And you know, you're really busy men. And you know, you're really trying to make them feel like Rome is trying to make them feel like Rome is trying to make them feel like Rome is the same Rome. This is a whole other the same Rome. This is a whole other the same Rome. This is a whole other issue that, you know, he is kind of issue that, you know, he is kind of issue that, you know, he is kind of becoming this monarchic figure in Rome. becoming this monarchic figure in Rome. becoming this monarchic figure in Rome. >> Uh he's getting getting accused of >> Uh he's getting getting accused of >> Uh he's getting getting accused of wanting to make himself king. He's wanting to make himself king. He's wanting to make himself king. He's getting accused of wanting to make getting accused of wanting to make getting accused of wanting to make himself a god, which is not entirely off himself a god, which is not entirely off himself a god, which is not entirely off base. We could get to that. But base. We could get to that. But base. We could get to that. But so, you know, Desimus makes some good so, you know, Desimus makes some good so, you know, Desimus makes some good arguments. Come on, soldier up. is a arguments. Come on, soldier up. is a arguments. Come on, soldier up. is a fellow soldier. And so Caesar fellow soldier. And so Caesar fellow soldier. And so Caesar reluctantly at first, but you know, he reluctantly at first, but you know, he reluctantly at first, but you know, he kind of allows himself to be persuaded kind of allows himself to be persuaded kind of allows himself to be persuaded by Desimus. And it's funny, you know, I by Desimus. And it's funny, you know, I by Desimus. And it's funny, you know, I mean, whenever Caesar goes anywhere in mean, whenever Caesar goes anywhere in mean, whenever Caesar goes anywhere in Rome, the crowds, the throngs, people Rome, the crowds, the throngs, people Rome, the crowds, the throngs, people are saying, Caesar, kiss my baby or can are saying, Caesar, kiss my baby or can are saying, Caesar, kiss my baby or can you, you know, cancel my debt, blah, you, you know, cancel my debt, blah, you, you know, cancel my debt, blah, blah, blah. But, uh, and this is again blah, blah. But, uh, and this is again blah, blah. But, uh, and this is again well attested. This happens in in well attested. This happens in in well attested. This happens in in Shakespeare's play, but you know, Shakespeare's play, but you know, Shakespeare's play, but you know, apparently he had a client uh like a apparently he had a client uh like a apparently he had a client uh like a friend of his whose house he had stayed friend of his whose house he had stayed friend of his whose house he had stayed at in Asia once and um the young man, at in Asia once and um the young man, at in Asia once and um the young man, the son of the house was in Rome the son of the house was in Rome the son of the house was in Rome studying philosophy studying philosophy studying philosophy and probably was connected with the and probably was connected with the and probably was connected with the other Brutus, Marcus Brutus, who was one other Brutus, Marcus Brutus, who was one other Brutus, Marcus Brutus, who was one of the ring leaders of the of the ring leaders of the of the ring leaders of the assassination. assassination. assassination. And this kid, I forget what his name is, And this kid, I forget what his name is, And this kid, I forget what his name is, comes up to Caesar and like Caesar knows comes up to Caesar and like Caesar knows comes up to Caesar and like Caesar knows him and he passes a letter to Caesar. He him and he passes a letter to Caesar. He him and he passes a letter to Caesar. He says, "Caesa, you have to read this says, "Caesa, you have to read this says, "Caesa, you have to read this urgently." Uh Caesar's probably being urgently." Uh Caesar's probably being urgently." Uh Caesar's probably being carried in a litter, but he gets the carried in a litter, but he gets the carried in a litter, but he gets the letter to Caesar and apparently Caesar letter to Caesar and apparently Caesar letter to Caesar and apparently Caesar has this in his hand and plans to read has this in his hand and plans to read has this in his hand and plans to read it. But this would have been it. But this would have been it. But this would have been basically the guy was trying to tell him basically the guy was trying to tell him basically the guy was trying to tell him about the plot that was very much in about the plot that was very much in about the plot that was very much in action that day action that day action that day >> that was underway that he was walking >> that was underway that he was walking >> that was underway that he was walking right into. right into. right into. >> So Brutus went to try and encourage >> So Brutus went to try and encourage >> So Brutus went to try and encourage Caesar to leave the home to sort of Caesar to leave the home to sort of Caesar to leave the home to sort of question his agency and sovereignty and question his agency and sovereignty and question his agency and sovereignty and belief in himself to remind him of what belief in himself to remind him of what belief in himself to remind him of what he'd done in the past in an attempt to he'd done in the past in an attempt to he'd done in the past in an attempt to get him out of the house get him out of the house get him out of the house >> so that he could be carried through so >> so that he could be carried through so >> so that he could be carried through so that he could arrive at the place for that he could arrive at the place for that he could arrive at the place for the assassination. Well put. Yeah. So the assassination. Well put. Yeah. So the assassination. Well put. Yeah. So that was, you know, the Senate meeting that was, you know, the Senate meeting that was, you know, the Senate meeting that they were that they ended up doing that they were that they ended up doing that they were that they ended up doing the deed at, uh, murdering him in the the deed at, uh, murdering him in the the deed at, uh, murdering him in the Senate. And, uh, and there, you know, Senate. And, uh, and there, you know, Senate. And, uh, and there, you know, the two Brutuses, the one that he was the two Brutuses, the one that he was the two Brutuses, the one that he was with dinner with the night before was with dinner with the night before was with dinner with the night before was the, um, the guy who got him to come, the, um, the guy who got him to come, the, um, the guy who got him to come, the guy that's in his will. the guy that's in his will. the guy that's in his will. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. And so he, yeah, he gets to the Senate And so he, yeah, he gets to the Senate And so he, yeah, he gets to the Senate House. Once again, the omens are bad. House. Once again, the omens are bad. House. Once again, the omens are bad. You know, as you always sacrifice, you You know, as you always sacrifice, you You know, as you always sacrifice, you do some whatever you do uh before going do some whatever you do uh before going do some whatever you do uh before going into the Senate to kind of inaugurate into the Senate to kind of inaugurate into the Senate to kind of inaugurate the meeting. Councils usually do this. the meeting. Councils usually do this. the meeting. Councils usually do this. >> I think Caesar's console that year. Um >> I think Caesar's console that year. Um >> I think Caesar's console that year. Um >> and uh >> and uh >> and uh omens are bad, but he goes in anyway. omens are bad, but he goes in anyway. omens are bad, but he goes in anyway. Yeah. And he's he's in the Senate House. Yeah. And he's he's in the Senate House. Yeah. And he's he's in the Senate House. uh as and it's his throne as dictator uh as and it's his throne as dictator uh as and it's his throne as dictator is right under the statue of Pompy the is right under the statue of Pompy the is right under the statue of Pompy the Great because the place that they're Great because the place that they're Great because the place that they're actually meeting is not the old Senate actually meeting is not the old Senate actually meeting is not the old Senate house which burned down a couple of house which burned down a couple of house which burned down a couple of years earlier. It's this new complex years earlier. It's this new complex years earlier. It's this new complex um that that Pompy built with the spoils um that that Pompy built with the spoils um that that Pompy built with the spoils of his war in the east. And it's like a of his war in the east. And it's like a of his war in the east. And it's like a little basement or not basement, it's little basement or not basement, it's little basement or not basement, it's like a a room off the complex that Pompy like a a room off the complex that Pompy like a a room off the complex that Pompy built for the Senate to meet in in the built for the Senate to meet in in the built for the Senate to meet in in the forum in uh so it's it's outside the forum in uh so it's it's outside the forum in uh so it's it's outside the primarium. It's in it's in the campus primarium. It's in it's in the campus primarium. It's in it's in the campus marshes now. So it's um I forget what marshes now. So it's um I forget what marshes now. So it's um I forget what that part of Rome is called. Um but that part of Rome is called. Um but that part of Rome is called. Um but basically basically basically it was an area that wasn't very built it was an area that wasn't very built it was an area that wasn't very built up. So you could plant this massive, you up. So you could plant this massive, you up. So you could plant this massive, you know, stone complex with multiple know, stone complex with multiple know, stone complex with multiple buildings buildings buildings >> pretty easily uh in this unclaimed land. >> pretty easily uh in this unclaimed land. >> pretty easily uh in this unclaimed land. So, he had to actually walk from the So, he had to actually walk from the So, he had to actually walk from the forum. It was like a it's probably a forum. It was like a it's probably a forum. It was like a it's probably a 20-minute walk. Yeah. Um, but that is 20-minute walk. Yeah. Um, but that is 20-minute walk. Yeah. Um, but that is where the Senate is now officially where the Senate is now officially where the Senate is now officially meeting. meeting. meeting. And of course, there was a statue of And of course, there was a statue of And of course, there was a statue of Pompy as conqueror, Pompy as conqueror, Pompy as conqueror, you know, in this prominent place in the you know, in this prominent place in the you know, in this prominent place in the Senate House. And it's it's in front of Senate House. And it's it's in front of Senate House. And it's it's in front of the statue of Pompy the Great that the the statue of Pompy the Great that the the statue of Pompy the Great that the petitioners come up that the assassins petitioners come up that the assassins petitioners come up that the assassins come up pretending to have some urgent come up pretending to have some urgent come up pretending to have some urgent business. business. business. Please, my brother is in exile. Caesar, Please, my brother is in exile. Caesar, Please, my brother is in exile. Caesar, can you get him pardoned? No, this is can you get him pardoned? No, this is can you get him pardoned? No, this is not the time. Please, Caesar. And Brutus not the time. Please, Caesar. And Brutus not the time. Please, Caesar. And Brutus comes up and Desimus comes up, the other comes up and Desimus comes up, the other comes up and Desimus comes up, the other Brutus, and Casus comes up. Caesar, this Brutus, and Casus comes up. Caesar, this Brutus, and Casus comes up. Caesar, this is a worthy uh friend of yours. We we we is a worthy uh friend of yours. We we we is a worthy uh friend of yours. We we we we beg you. Please, you know, you you we beg you. Please, you know, you you we beg you. Please, you know, you you must spare. And then that's when they must spare. And then that's when they must spare. And then that's when they have him distracted. They grab his robe have him distracted. They grab his robe have him distracted. They grab his robe and he at some point before he actually and he at some point before he actually and he at some point before he actually gets stabbed, he's like they're grabbing gets stabbed, he's like they're grabbing gets stabbed, he's like they're grabbing him. He's like, "What's going on here? him. He's like, "What's going on here? him. He's like, "What's going on here? This is violence." M This is violence." M This is violence." M >> and uh and that's I think when he >> and uh and that's I think when he >> and uh and that's I think when he realizes at least when the first blow realizes at least when the first blow realizes at least when the first blow struck that every man that's surrounding struck that every man that's surrounding struck that every man that's surrounding him 15 or 20 guys probably there was a him 15 or 20 guys probably there was a him 15 or 20 guys probably there was a bit there were more people in on the bit there were more people in on the bit there were more people in on the plot but some are holding the doors you plot but some are holding the doors you plot but some are holding the doors you know keeping the perimeter to make sure know keeping the perimeter to make sure know keeping the perimeter to make sure uh but yeah uh but yeah uh but yeah and uh and they did the deed and you and uh and they did the deed and you and uh and they did the deed and you know after they kill know after they kill know after they kill Um Um Um after they stab him there is that moment after they stab him there is that moment after they stab him there is that moment that is in Plutarch where he turns to that is in Plutarch where he turns to that is in Plutarch where he turns to Brutus the the more famous one his uh Brutus the the more famous one his uh Brutus the the more famous one his uh and this is remember like he's the son and this is remember like he's the son and this is remember like he's the son of Caesar's like top girlfriend Cervilia of Caesar's like top girlfriend Cervilia of Caesar's like top girlfriend Cervilia and he had a relationship with this kid and he had a relationship with this kid and he had a relationship with this kid like he was looking out for his career like he was looking out for his career like he was looking out for his career >> uh he was promoting him the kid fought >> uh he was promoting him the kid fought >> uh he was promoting him the kid fought on Pompy's side in the civil war for on Pompy's side in the civil war for on Pompy's side in the civil war for some family reasons but he spared him. some family reasons but he spared him. some family reasons but he spared him. So many of these men he's spared. So many of these men he's spared. So many of these men he's spared. And some of them are his trusted like And some of them are his trusted like And some of them are his trusted like long-term loyalists. It's not just long-term loyalists. It's not just long-term loyalists. It's not just former enemies that were spared, that former enemies that were spared, that former enemies that were spared, that were resentful. It's former loyalists. were resentful. It's former loyalists. were resentful. It's former loyalists. And uh and he says to to Brutus, "You And uh and he says to to Brutus, "You And uh and he says to to Brutus, "You two child kaisuton two child kaisuton two child kaisuton uh at two brute as as Shakespeare says." uh at two brute as as Shakespeare says." uh at two brute as as Shakespeare says." Um and then they, you know, he bleeds Um and then they, you know, he bleeds Um and then they, you know, he bleeds out. Who knows how long it takes, but out. Who knows how long it takes, but out. Who knows how long it takes, but amazingly the Senate clears out amazingly the Senate clears out amazingly the Senate clears out pandemonium. I mean, to kill Julius pandemonium. I mean, to kill Julius pandemonium. I mean, to kill Julius Caesar, like Caesar, like Caesar, like this is this is this is this is like a a horrifying idea because this is like a a horrifying idea because this is like a a horrifying idea because it it it really threatens to plunge the it it it really threatens to plunge the it it it really threatens to plunge the Republic back into civil war again. He's Republic back into civil war again. He's Republic back into civil war again. He's the lid holding it all down. the lid holding it all down. the lid holding it all down. >> This is why Cicero told him that he >> This is why Cicero told him that he >> This is why Cicero told him that he needs to have a bodyguard because so needs to have a bodyguard because so needs to have a bodyguard because so much is at stake. If you get killed now, much is at stake. If you get killed now, much is at stake. If you get killed now, we're all screwed. M we're all screwed. M we're all screwed. M >> that's that's what Cicero was saying 18 >> that's that's what Cicero was saying 18 >> that's that's what Cicero was saying 18 months earlier and he was very much months earlier and he was very much months earlier and he was very much correct and uh but the Senate House correct and uh but the Senate House correct and uh but the Senate House clears out and he's just there alone on clears out and he's just there alone on clears out and he's just there alone on the floor and nobody wants to grow the floor and nobody wants to grow the floor and nobody wants to grow approach him and and and draw close approach him and and and draw close approach him and and and draw close because they're afraid that you know one because they're afraid that you know one because they're afraid that you know one of the assassins will see them and of the assassins will see them and of the assassins will see them and implic you know they nobody knows like implic you know they nobody knows like implic you know they nobody knows like what is what is the potential risk of me what is what is the potential risk of me what is what is the potential risk of me tending to Caesar's body and so he just tending to Caesar's body and so he just tending to Caesar's body and so he just lies there first lies there first lies there first >> that becomes Yeah. >> that becomes Yeah. >> that becomes Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and then eventually some of Caesar's >> Um and then eventually some of Caesar's >> Um and then eventually some of Caesar's slaves go in there. They can only find slaves go in there. They can only find slaves go in there. They can only find three men. It takes four men to hold a a three men. It takes four men to hold a a three men. It takes four men to hold a a litter. They can only find three guys to litter. They can only find three guys to litter. They can only find three guys to carry Caesar's body back to his house. carry Caesar's body back to his house. carry Caesar's body back to his house. Uh and it starts to rain on their way Uh and it starts to rain on their way Uh and it starts to rain on their way back and the streets are lined. People back and the streets are lined. People back and the streets are lined. People see his his like arm hanging out. Um and see his his like arm hanging out. Um and see his his like arm hanging out. Um and he's brought back to Kalpernia. he's brought back to Kalpernia. he's brought back to Kalpernia. So, So, So, still gets me. I mean, I think I think still gets me. I mean, I think I think still gets me. I mean, I think I think that you can you could say a lot about that you can you could say a lot about that you can you could say a lot about Caesar, but I I do think that he Caesar, but I I do think that he Caesar, but I I do think that he um he he managed to identify his own um he he managed to identify his own um he he managed to identify his own success, his own legacy with what he saw success, his own legacy with what he saw success, his own legacy with what he saw as the flourishing of Rome. you know, it as the flourishing of Rome. you know, it as the flourishing of Rome. you know, it wasn't just about his own glory, or it wasn't just about his own glory, or it wasn't just about his own glory, or it was, but to the extent that he felt like was, but to the extent that he felt like was, but to the extent that he felt like he was the man most responsible for he was the man most responsible for he was the man most responsible for whether the state survived and whether the state survived and whether the state survived and flourished. flourished. flourished. And uh so I, you know, And uh so I, you know, And uh so I, you know, but that's not how his enemies saw it, but that's not how his enemies saw it, but that's not how his enemies saw it, was it? What convinced them that he was it? What convinced them that he was it? What convinced them that he needed to go? needed to go? needed to go? Well, Well, Well, they saw that after the civil war, they saw that after the civil war, they saw that after the civil war, Caesar was unquestionably Caesar was unquestionably Caesar was unquestionably not just the the the first among equals, not just the the the first among equals, not just the the the first among equals, not just the first man in Rome, but like not just the first man in Rome, but like not just the first man in Rome, but like something was changing. You know, Caesar something was changing. You know, Caesar something was changing. You know, Caesar had fought fought all of his career to had fought fought all of his career to had fought fought all of his career to end corruption and the the strangle hold end corruption and the the strangle hold end corruption and the the strangle hold of the the establishment oligarchy over of the the establishment oligarchy over of the the establishment oligarchy over offices. I mean there was incredible offices. I mean there was incredible offices. I mean there was incredible wealth inequality wealth inequality wealth inequality and there's this kind of like tight and there's this kind of like tight and there's this kind of like tight click of people that control everything click of people that control everything click of people that control everything and they get to abuse the provincials at and they get to abuse the provincials at and they get to abuse the provincials at will if they're you know the typical way will if they're you know the typical way will if they're you know the typical way that you uh rise up in Rome is by that you uh rise up in Rome is by that you uh rise up in Rome is by winning elections and then going out and winning elections and then going out and winning elections and then going out and uh being governor and usually it's very uh being governor and usually it's very uh being governor and usually it's very expensive to get elected expensive to get elected expensive to get elected and then you have to go into debt and and then you have to go into debt and and then you have to go into debt and you recoup your money by by robbing you recoup your money by by robbing you recoup your money by by robbing the Greeks or the Gauls or the Spaniards the Greeks or the Gauls or the Spaniards the Greeks or the Gauls or the Spaniards and taking bribes and stuff. It's a and taking bribes and stuff. It's a and taking bribes and stuff. It's a system that highly incentivizes system that highly incentivizes system that highly incentivizes corruption and Caesar wanted to change corruption and Caesar wanted to change corruption and Caesar wanted to change that among other things. that among other things. that among other things. and um and um and um and and I think he eventually decided and and I think he eventually decided and and I think he eventually decided that this whole game that we've been that this whole game that we've been that this whole game that we've been playing at Rome for playing at Rome for playing at Rome for 450 years since the republic was founded 450 years since the republic was founded 450 years since the republic was founded since they drove out the kings. You since they drove out the kings. You since they drove out the kings. You know, you got to remember the Romans know, you got to remember the Romans know, you got to remember the Romans have been inoculated against kings much have been inoculated against kings much have been inoculated against kings much in the same way we are as Americans. in the same way we are as Americans. in the same way we are as Americans. Like America was founded by us rejecting Like America was founded by us rejecting Like America was founded by us rejecting King George III. Rome was the republic King George III. Rome was the republic King George III. Rome was the republic rather was founded by driving out rather was founded by driving out rather was founded by driving out Tarquin the proud who was this brutal Tarquin the proud who was this brutal Tarquin the proud who was this brutal you know corrupt tyrant in their eyes you know corrupt tyrant in their eyes you know corrupt tyrant in their eyes and then that it was a a collective and then that it was a a collective and then that it was a a collective government you have elections for office government you have elections for office government you have elections for office you know you have assemblies to vote on you know you have assemblies to vote on you know you have assemblies to vote on laws and all this stuff that's what the laws and all this stuff that's what the laws and all this stuff that's what the republic is to them that's what Rome is republic is to them that's what Rome is republic is to them that's what Rome is to them and uh to them and uh to them and uh and this is also the game that people and this is also the game that people and this is also the game that people like Desmos Brutus his friend Brutus the like Desmos Brutus his friend Brutus the like Desmos Brutus his friend Brutus the other Brutus Casius other Brutus Casius other Brutus Casius uh uh uh basically everybody in the republic basically everybody in the republic basically everybody in the republic every everybody in the leadership every everybody in the leadership every everybody in the leadership classes had been playing had been had classes had been playing had been had classes had been playing had been had been expecting to play for their whole been expecting to play for their whole been expecting to play for their whole lives which is you know this is how you lives which is you know this is how you lives which is you know this is how you get honor. You get honor by service to get honor. You get honor by service to get honor. You get honor by service to the republic. You get honor by winning the republic. You get honor by winning the republic. You get honor by winning elections. You get honor by winning elections. You get honor by winning elections. You get honor by winning wars. But now wars. But now wars. But now Caesar is basically trying to kind of Caesar is basically trying to kind of Caesar is basically trying to kind of transition the political system into transition the political system into transition the political system into um something resembling a monarchy. um something resembling a monarchy. um something resembling a monarchy. >> He doesn't want to call it a king, a >> He doesn't want to call it a king, a >> He doesn't want to call it a king, a kingship. He doesn't want to call kingship. He doesn't want to call kingship. He doesn't want to call himself king, but he he's really himself king, but he he's really himself king, but he he's really deliberately taking all the authority deliberately taking all the authority deliberately taking all the authority into himself because I think he sees into himself because I think he sees into himself because I think he sees that that that his legacy depends on if if he releases his legacy depends on if if he releases his legacy depends on if if he releases power, he's kind of a control freak, you power, he's kind of a control freak, you power, he's kind of a control freak, you might say. If he lets go, then it's all might say. If he lets go, then it's all might say. If he lets go, then it's all going to kind of dissolve again that going to kind of dissolve again that going to kind of dissolve again that people are going to undo his legislation people are going to undo his legislation people are going to undo his legislation and um they're going to go back to and um they're going to go back to and um they're going to go back to revert to the way that things were. And revert to the way that things were. And revert to the way that things were. And this is one of the reasons why he just this is one of the reasons why he just this is one of the reasons why he just feels like he has to hold on to power. feels like he has to hold on to power. feels like he has to hold on to power. Um but what it what it puts him in this Um but what it what it puts him in this Um but what it what it puts him in this uncomfortable position uncomfortable position uncomfortable position uh for is every honor now in the past used to be every honor now in the past used to be given by the Roman people. given by the Roman people. given by the Roman people. You used to have supreme responsibility You used to have supreme responsibility You used to have supreme responsibility as a console. If you're going to command as a console. If you're going to command as a console. If you're going to command Rome's armies, uh you are the guy who Rome's armies, uh you are the guy who Rome's armies, uh you are the guy who wins the victory. If you win the console wins the victory. If you win the console wins the victory. If you win the console ship, it's because the people of Rome ship, it's because the people of Rome ship, it's because the people of Rome elected you console and so on and so on. elected you console and so on and so on. elected you console and so on and so on. Honor is granted by the state. And now Honor is granted by the state. And now Honor is granted by the state. And now it seems clear Caesar's been handing out it seems clear Caesar's been handing out it seems clear Caesar's been handing out offices basically like he's been picking offices basically like he's been picking offices basically like he's been picking the consoles, he's been picking the the consoles, he's been picking the the consoles, he's been picking the preers, he's been drafting the laws and preers, he's been drafting the laws and preers, he's been drafting the laws and getting the Senate to rubber stamp them. getting the Senate to rubber stamp them. getting the Senate to rubber stamp them. All the honor flows from this one man. All the honor flows from this one man. All the honor flows from this one man. And how is that not slavery in the eyes And how is that not slavery in the eyes And how is that not slavery in the eyes of a proud Roman? like you the the most of a proud Roman? like you the the most of a proud Roman? like you the the most Aristotle talks about the most difficult Aristotle talks about the most difficult Aristotle talks about the most difficult thing that a uh politician has to do and thing that a uh politician has to do and thing that a uh politician has to do and their most important duty of a statesman their most important duty of a statesman their most important duty of a statesman >> is to correctly wisely distribute honors >> is to correctly wisely distribute honors >> is to correctly wisely distribute honors because this is for a guy like Caesar because this is for a guy like Caesar because this is for a guy like Caesar and for a guy like Desimus for for any and for a guy like Desimus for for any and for a guy like Desimus for for any of these these you know super uh Chad of these these you know super uh Chad of these these you know super uh Chad Roman Roman Roman >> statesman uh aspirants >> statesman uh aspirants >> statesman uh aspirants the thing the the prize that you're the thing the the prize that you're the thing the the prize that you're playing for is It's not wealth in at playing for is It's not wealth in at playing for is It's not wealth in at least it shouldn't be. It's not it's not least it shouldn't be. It's not it's not least it shouldn't be. It's not it's not pleasure. It's not like fame as such or pleasure. It's not like fame as such or pleasure. It's not like fame as such or status as such. It's honor. That's what status as such. It's honor. That's what status as such. It's honor. That's what Aristotle would say that that the Aristotle would say that that the Aristotle would say that that the highest form of the statesman, the great highest form of the statesman, the great highest form of the statesman, the great sold man is one who sold man is one who sold man is one who desires great things, considers himself desires great things, considers himself desires great things, considers himself worthy of them and is correct in that worthy of them and is correct in that worthy of them and is correct in that judgment. judgment. judgment. And that means um being worthy of of And that means um being worthy of of And that means um being worthy of of great things. But what are the greatest great things. But what are the greatest great things. But what are the greatest things to desire? I mean this is a things to desire? I mean this is a things to desire? I mean this is a question that's perplexed philosophers. question that's perplexed philosophers. question that's perplexed philosophers. >> What is it what is a good life? What is >> What is it what is a good life? What is >> What is it what is a good life? What is worthy of desire? Uh what what is it um worthy of desire? Uh what what is it um worthy of desire? Uh what what is it um what does it mean to be worthy of what does it mean to be worthy of what does it mean to be worthy of something? And aerosol says the highest something? And aerosol says the highest something? And aerosol says the highest thing that you can desire of external thing that you can desire of external thing that you can desire of external goods goods goods is honor. the price that you would be is honor. the price that you would be is honor. the price that you would be paid for a ransom note. paid for a ransom note. paid for a ransom note. >> Yeah. Yeah. Essentially. And uh you know >> Yeah. Yeah. Essentially. And uh you know >> Yeah. Yeah. Essentially. And uh you know you can desire virtue, you can desire you can desire virtue, you can desire you can desire virtue, you can desire inner peace, you can desire wholeness, inner peace, you can desire wholeness, inner peace, you can desire wholeness, you can desire wisdom, but those are all you can desire wisdom, but those are all you can desire wisdom, but those are all internal goods. internal goods. internal goods. But but of of the things that you can But but of of the things that you can But but of of the things that you can kind of strive for, it's honor. And so kind of strive for, it's honor. And so kind of strive for, it's honor. And so this is the highest prize that that um this is the highest prize that that um this is the highest prize that that um an ambitious man could like, an ambitious man could like, an ambitious man could like, you know, make a career on. pursue you know, make a career on. pursue you know, make a career on. pursue virtue, you need to be virtuous to be virtue, you need to be virtuous to be virtue, you need to be virtuous to be really worthy of honor, etc. Um, but and really worthy of honor, etc. Um, but and really worthy of honor, etc. Um, but and you know, for for a great sold man, even you know, for for a great sold man, even you know, for for a great sold man, even honor is maybe a small prize because honor is maybe a small prize because honor is maybe a small prize because like honor can be corrupted, right? like honor can be corrupted, right? like honor can be corrupted, right? >> Um, corrupt people get get voted honors >> Um, corrupt people get get voted honors >> Um, corrupt people get get voted honors all the time. Uh, so I don't think all the time. Uh, so I don't think all the time. Uh, so I don't think that's a problem Caesar had solved. He's that's a problem Caesar had solved. He's that's a problem Caesar had solved. He's the brilliant, brilliant statesman, the brilliant, brilliant statesman, the brilliant, brilliant statesman, legislator, politician, brilliant with legislator, politician, brilliant with legislator, politician, brilliant with people. But like to get a whole people. But like to get a whole people. But like to get a whole political class of ambitious young men, political class of ambitious young men, political class of ambitious young men, I mean, all the guys that kill him are I mean, all the guys that kill him are I mean, all the guys that kill him are like late 30s, early 40s. They're like like late 30s, early 40s. They're like like late 30s, early 40s. They're like in their prime in their prime in their prime >> and they still got a lot of gas left and >> and they still got a lot of gas left and >> and they still got a lot of gas left and they're seeing they're seeing they're seeing >> the whole game has been just screwed. >> the whole game has been just screwed. >> the whole game has been just screwed. Like I was raised to want honor and Like I was raised to want honor and Like I was raised to want honor and honor is is what the people of Rome give honor is is what the people of Rome give honor is is what the people of Rome give you. And now I'm I'm supposed to like you. And now I'm I'm supposed to like you. And now I'm I'm supposed to like do all of this stuff that I was going to do all of this stuff that I was going to do all of this stuff that I was going to do. Command armies, do. Command armies, do. Command armies, uh, you know, pass laws. I'm going to uh, you know, pass laws. I'm going to uh, you know, pass laws. I'm going to all do it as Caesar's employee. all do it as Caesar's employee. all do it as Caesar's employee. >> Right. Right. Never a boss, never a >> Right. Right. Never a boss, never a >> Right. Right. Never a boss, never a patron, always a client. I think that patron, always a client. I think that patron, always a client. I think that was intolerable for it was like a was intolerable for it was like a was intolerable for it was like a meaning crisis for them. The the meaning crisis for them. The the meaning crisis for them. The the situation that they did put themselves situation that they did put themselves situation that they did put themselves into is that for the rest of time they into is that for the rest of time they into is that for the rest of time they would be seen as an assassin. Yeah. I would be seen as an assassin. Yeah. I would be seen as an assassin. Yeah. I mean, I guess maybe mean, I guess maybe mean, I guess maybe it's preferable to be a powerful it's preferable to be a powerful it's preferable to be a powerful assassin than a a peaceful subordinate assassin than a a peaceful subordinate assassin than a a peaceful subordinate maybe in Roman times or at least in maybe in Roman times or at least in maybe in Roman times or at least in their version of this philosophy. their version of this philosophy. their version of this philosophy. >> Yeah. You know, it was an interesting >> Yeah. You know, it was an interesting >> Yeah. You know, it was an interesting blend to to think that it would be blend to to think that it would be blend to to think that it would be better to be mutinous better to be mutinous better to be mutinous and a rebel against somebody that was a and a rebel against somebody that was a and a rebel against somebody that was a great leader but may have pushed the great leader but may have pushed the great leader but may have pushed the power too far power too far power too far compared with being compared with being compared with being a part of an existing structure that had a part of an existing structure that had a part of an existing structure that had sort of raised Rome up to be a really sort of raised Rome up to be a really sort of raised Rome up to be a really great empire. great empire. great empire. Yeah. Yeah, at the very least they saw Yeah. Yeah, at the very least they saw Yeah. Yeah, at the very least they saw more meaning in that path than the other more meaning in that path than the other more meaning in that path than the other path at the time. path at the time. path at the time. >> There was more self-determination. >> There was more self-determination. >> There was more self-determination. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which is super important. >> Which is super important. >> Which is super important. >> They had a lot more agency. I It's very >> They had a lot more agency. I It's very >> They had a lot more agency. I It's very understandable. understandable. understandable. >> Dante still puts them in the ninth >> Dante still puts them in the ninth >> Dante still puts them in the ninth circle of hell betraying a friend. betraying a friend. >> [ __ ] Yeah, Alex, you absolutely rule. >> [ __ ] Yeah, Alex, you absolutely rule. >> [ __ ] Yeah, Alex, you absolutely rule. Dude, this has been so much fun. So Dude, this has been so much fun. So Dude, this has been so much fun. So great. And I there's, you know, great. And I there's, you know, great. And I there's, you know, literally 2,000 years of history that we literally 2,000 years of history that we literally 2,000 years of history that we could go through. Before we close, I got could go through. Before we close, I got could go through. Before we close, I got you a little gift. you a little gift. you a little gift. >> Oh, thank you. >> Oh, thank you. >> Oh, thank you. >> Um, you know, I don't know how much of a >> Um, you know, I don't know how much of a >> Um, you know, I don't know how much of a Roman Empire fan you are, Chris, but I'm Roman Empire fan you are, Chris, but I'm Roman Empire fan you are, Chris, but I'm trying to make you one. trying to make you one. trying to make you one. >> Okay. So, um, this is a coin that I got >> Okay. So, um, this is a coin that I got >> Okay. So, um, this is a coin that I got from Kinser Coins, uh, which I from Kinser Coins, uh, which I from Kinser Coins, uh, which I recommend. It's It's Hrien. You're recommend. It's It's Hrien. You're recommend. It's It's Hrien. You're You're a northern Brit, right? You're a northern Brit, right? You're a northern Brit, right? >> Yep. I've been to Hrien's Wall many a >> Yep. I've been to Hrien's Wall many a >> Yep. I've been to Hrien's Wall many a time. time. time. >> I figured I figured. And uh you know, if >> I figured I figured. And uh you know, if >> I figured I figured. And uh you know, if you look at this, he's got a nice little you look at this, he's got a nice little you look at this, he's got a nice little beard. I mean, I see a little beard. I mean, I see a little beard. I mean, I see a little resemblance there. As a matter of fact, resemblance there. As a matter of fact, resemblance there. As a matter of fact, it says it says on there, Hadriana it says it says on there, Hadriana it says it says on there, Hadriana uh Augustus, Hrien Augustus. uh Augustus, Hrien Augustus. uh Augustus, Hrien Augustus. And um dude, this is so cool. And um dude, this is so cool. And um dude, this is so cool. >> It says COS on the other side. That >> It says COS on the other side. That >> It says COS on the other side. That means console. So, it was minted when he means console. So, it was minted when he means console. So, it was minted when he was a console. was a console. was a console. >> And is that are those stars? >> And is that are those stars? >> And is that are those stars? >> Is that >> Is that >> Is that >> I think they're stars >> I think they're stars >> I think they're stars >> on the What would be the bottom? The >> on the What would be the bottom? The >> on the What would be the bottom? The Yeah, this is uh Yeah, this is uh Yeah, this is uh >> what is on the back that someone stood >> what is on the back that someone stood >> what is on the back that someone stood in a toga? in a toga? in a toga? >> Yeah, I think that this is Roma. >> Like she's the the goddess that emod is >> Like she's the the goddess that emod is like the divine tutillary goddess of like the divine tutillary goddess of like the divine tutillary goddess of Rome. Rome. Rome. >> I can't believe you got me that. >> I can't believe you got me that. >> I can't believe you got me that. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> dude. That is so [ __ ] cool. >> dude. That is so [ __ ] cool. >> dude. That is so [ __ ] cool. >> Hrien is is the last um emperor that >> Hrien is is the last um emperor that >> Hrien is is the last um emperor that Plutarch lived under. He was um so he's Plutarch lived under. He was um so he's Plutarch lived under. He was um so he's kind of special to me. not to be kind of special to me. not to be kind of special to me. not to be emulated in everything. You know, Hrien emulated in everything. You know, Hrien emulated in everything. You know, Hrien had a you know, he did he did a lot of had a you know, he did he did a lot of had a you know, he did he did a lot of things Greek style, but he was a great things Greek style, but he was a great things Greek style, but he was a great he was a great fan of the Greeks, the he was a great fan of the Greeks, the he was a great fan of the Greeks, the patron of the Greeks. So, um patron of the Greeks. So, um patron of the Greeks. So, um >> this is so good and thank you so much. >> this is so good and thank you so much. >> this is so good and thank you so much. This honestly is I could have sat and This honestly is I could have sat and This honestly is I could have sat and listened to you for the rest of the listened to you for the rest of the listened to you for the rest of the month. Uh where should people go? You've month. Uh where should people go? You've month. Uh where should people go? You've got so much stuff going on. got so much stuff going on. got so much stuff going on. >> Yeah, Cost of Glory podcast, wherever >> Yeah, Cost of Glory podcast, wherever >> Yeah, Cost of Glory podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Um Spotify, I'm you get your podcasts. Um Spotify, I'm you get your podcasts. Um Spotify, I'm on YouTube, too. We're trying to make on YouTube, too. We're trying to make on YouTube, too. We're trying to make more videos to the audio content and you more videos to the audio content and you more videos to the audio content and you can go to cost ofglory.com and I'm I do can go to cost ofglory.com and I'm I do can go to cost ofglory.com and I'm I do other stuff beside the other stuff beside the other stuff beside the >> retreats and stuff, right? >> retreats and stuff, right? >> retreats and stuff, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, we run retreats um in Greece >> Yeah. Yeah, we run retreats um in Greece >> Yeah. Yeah, we run retreats um in Greece and Rome and and Rome and and Rome and >> men go and reenact is this lapping? Are >> men go and reenact is this lapping? Are >> men go and reenact is this lapping? Are they reenacting? they reenacting? they reenacting? >> We have we haven't done a lar battle >> We have we haven't done a lar battle >> We have we haven't done a lar battle yet. Uh we've gotten some demand from yet. Uh we've gotten some demand from yet. Uh we've gotten some demand from that and we've got that and we've got that and we've got >> you're really tapping into the uh men >> you're really tapping into the uh men >> you're really tapping into the uh men think about the Roman Empire once every think about the Roman Empire once every think about the Roman Empire once every 30 minutes thing. 30 minutes thing. 30 minutes thing. >> Yeah, we're trying to crank that up. >> Yeah, we're trying to crank that up. >> Yeah, we're trying to crank that up. It's not enough. It's not enough. It's not enough. >> I want to get it up to every 15. >> I want to get it up to every 15. >> I want to get it up to every 15. >> Never enough. Yeah. Can you ever forget >> Never enough. Yeah. Can you ever forget >> Never enough. Yeah. Can you ever forget it? it? it? >> Oh man, this is so good, dude. S's been >> Oh man, this is so good, dude. S's been >> Oh man, this is so good, dude. S's been unreal. I appreciate you. I can't wait unreal. I appreciate you. I can't wait unreal. I appreciate you. I can't wait to have you back on. to have you back on. to have you back on. >> Yeah, anytime.