Building strength and muscle mass: optimize training & nutrition for longevity (AMA #71 rebroadcast)

Hey everyone, welcome to the Drive Hey everyone, welcome to the Drive Podcast. I'm your host, Peter Aia. Podcast. I'm your host, Peter Aia. Podcast. I'm your host, Peter Aia. [music] Welcome to another Ask Me Anything Welcome to another Ask Me Anything episode with Dr. Peter Ailla, Stanford, episode with Dr. Peter Ailla, Stanford, episode with Dr. Peter Ailla, Stanford, educated physician. educated physician. educated physician. How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? >> Thank you for that incredible >> Thank you for that incredible >> Thank you for that incredible introduction. I'm doing well and I I introduction. I'm doing well and I I introduction. I'm doing well and I I appreciate you having me back. I just appreciate you having me back. I just appreciate you having me back. I just wanted to make sure you knew it was your wanted to make sure you knew it was your wanted to make sure you knew it was your show, so I thought more of an show, so I thought more of an show, so I thought more of an introduction would make it feel more introduction would make it feel more introduction would make it feel more like home. like home. like home. Um, [sighs] before we start today's Um, [sighs] before we start today's Um, [sighs] before we start today's topic, how's your day going? You learn topic, how's your day going? You learn topic, how's your day going? You learn anything new today? Have you uh been anything new today? Have you uh been anything new today? Have you uh been educated in any way? educated in any way? educated in any way? >> Well, you're always learning, Nick. >> Well, you're always learning, Nick. >> Well, you're always learning, Nick. That's the thing. Uh, at least I think That's the thing. Uh, at least I think That's the thing. Uh, at least I think we should all try to be learning at all we should all try to be learning at all we should all try to be learning at all times. And uh today I had a a times. And uh today I had a a times. And uh today I had a a particularly fun day. I I went to my particularly fun day. I I went to my particularly fun day. I I went to my son's school uh to uh to take him lunch. son's school uh to uh to take him lunch. son's school uh to uh to take him lunch. This is something that I I like to do This is something that I I like to do This is something that I I like to do once in a while is take lunch and eat once in a while is take lunch and eat once in a while is take lunch and eat with my kids. And um he wasn't really in with my kids. And um he wasn't really in with my kids. And um he wasn't really in the mood to have lunch with me today, the mood to have lunch with me today, the mood to have lunch with me today, which uh happens from time to time with which uh happens from time to time with which uh happens from time to time with seven-year-olds. So, I ended up just in seven-year-olds. So, I ended up just in seven-year-olds. So, I ended up just in the cafeteria sitting at a table all by the cafeteria sitting at a table all by the cafeteria sitting at a table all by myself eating lunch. Um, which in and of myself eating lunch. Um, which in and of myself eating lunch. Um, which in and of itself was pretty funny cuz I really got itself was pretty funny cuz I really got itself was pretty funny cuz I really got a kick out of watching all the kids, you a kick out of watching all the kids, you a kick out of watching all the kids, you know, do doing their thing. But know, do doing their thing. But know, do doing their thing. But eventually a bunch of kids in his class, eventually a bunch of kids in his class, eventually a bunch of kids in his class, I think, felt bad for me and they came I think, felt bad for me and they came I think, felt bad for me and they came up and just sat around me and they up and just sat around me and they up and just sat around me and they started asking me a bunch of questions. started asking me a bunch of questions. started asking me a bunch of questions. Um, Um, Um, which of course turned into me asking which of course turned into me asking which of course turned into me asking them more questions like what are they them more questions like what are they them more questions like what are they doing in PE? What are they learning in doing in PE? What are they learning in doing in PE? What are they learning in science? That kind of stuff. But the kid science? That kind of stuff. But the kid science? That kind of stuff. But the kid sitting right across from me noticed I sitting right across from me noticed I sitting right across from me noticed I was drinking a diet soda. And was drinking a diet soda. And was drinking a diet soda. And truthfully, I don't really drink that truthfully, I don't really drink that truthfully, I don't really drink that many. I'm mostly a Toppo Chico, you many. I'm mostly a Toppo Chico, you many. I'm mostly a Toppo Chico, you know, Waterlue guy. But this was the know, Waterlue guy. But this was the know, Waterlue guy. But this was the first thing I grabbed. And he said, "Uh, first thing I grabbed. And he said, "Uh, first thing I grabbed. And he said, "Uh, huh, I noticed you're drinking whatever huh, I noticed you're drinking whatever huh, I noticed you're drinking whatever it was I was drinking, a fresca, it was I was drinking, a fresca, it was I was drinking, a fresca, actually. Um, you know that that has a actually. Um, you know that that has a actually. Um, you know that that has a sweetener in it that is 500 times sweetener in it that is 500 times sweetener in it that is 500 times sweeter than sugar?" And I said, "Oh, sweeter than sugar?" And I said, "Oh, sweeter than sugar?" And I said, "Oh, yeah. I I think that's how they get away yeah. I I think that's how they get away yeah. I I think that's how they get away with making it have no calories. He with making it have no calories. He with making it have no calories. He goes, "You know that causes cancer, goes, "You know that causes cancer, goes, "You know that causes cancer, right?" right?" right?" I just decided at that moment probably I just decided at that moment probably I just decided at that moment probably not a good time to argue the the not a good time to argue the the not a good time to argue the the abundance of the human literature and abundance of the human literature and abundance of the human literature and the animal literature and all that. So, the animal literature and all that. So, the animal literature and all that. So, I I let that one go. But but I I I let that one go. But but I I I let that one go. But but I appreciated the conviction and his appreciated the conviction and his appreciated the conviction and his concern for my health. He also pointed concern for my health. He also pointed concern for my health. He also pointed out afterwards that it wasn't going to out afterwards that it wasn't going to out afterwards that it wasn't going to kill you quickly because you were only kill you quickly because you were only kill you quickly because you were only ingesting so little of it, which I ingesting so little of it, which I ingesting so little of it, which I thought was a very astute comment for a thought was a very astute comment for a thought was a very astute comment for a seven-year-old. Uh, but anyway, needless seven-year-old. Uh, but anyway, needless seven-year-old. Uh, but anyway, needless to say, I had a lot of fun doing second to say, I had a lot of fun doing second to say, I had a lot of fun doing second grade lunch today and um I would be grade lunch today and um I would be grade lunch today and um I would be interested in going back. interested in going back. interested in going back. I I do love it, especially because I I do love it, especially because I I do love it, especially because you've openly talked about how when you you've openly talked about how when you you've openly talked about how when you go to like parties and events where go to like parties and events where go to like parties and events where there are adults there, you usually there are adults there, you usually there are adults there, you usually don't explain what you do cuz you don't don't explain what you do cuz you don't don't explain what you do cuz you don't want to have those conversations. And I want to have those conversations. And I want to have those conversations. And I love the fact you went to the local love the fact you went to the local love the fact you went to the local elementary school and they roped you elementary school and they roped you elementary school and they roped you into that. And I think, you know, we into that. And I think, you know, we into that. And I think, you know, we were talking briefly before this and I were talking briefly before this and I were talking briefly before this and I think Jessica and our team had a good think Jessica and our team had a good think Jessica and our team had a good idea and you know, people in the idea and you know, people in the idea and you know, people in the audience can let us know if they think audience can let us know if they think audience can let us know if they think this is good, which is maybe we do get a this is good, which is maybe we do get a this is good, which is maybe we do get a panel of these sevenyear-olds together panel of these sevenyear-olds together panel of these sevenyear-olds together and do a round table on what elementary and do a round table on what elementary and do a round table on what elementary kids think about health, nutrition, kids think about health, nutrition, kids think about health, nutrition, exercise, protein, microlastics, seed exercise, protein, microlastics, seed exercise, protein, microlastics, seed oils, you name it. It sounds like your oils, you name it. It sounds like your oils, you name it. It sounds like your local elementary school has a lot of local elementary school has a lot of local elementary school has a lot of insights on these topics. insights on these topics. insights on these topics. >> Honestly, if our audience wants to hear >> Honestly, if our audience wants to hear >> Honestly, if our audience wants to hear the seven-year-old round table, I am the seven-year-old round table, I am the seven-year-old round table, I am totally game to get seven uh to get, you totally game to get seven uh to get, you totally game to get seven uh to get, you know, a group of three or four or know, a group of three or four or know, a group of three or four or sevenyear-olds around the table and sevenyear-olds around the table and sevenyear-olds around the table and really go deep on the health issues that really go deep on the health issues that really go deep on the health issues that mean most to them. I I it's probably mean most to them. I I it's probably mean most to them. I I it's probably it's probably quite insightful. it's probably quite insightful. it's probably quite insightful. >> Yeah, it is. Yeah. Well, let us know if >> Yeah, it is. Yeah. Well, let us know if >> Yeah, it is. Yeah. Well, let us know if we should do it and we will make it we should do it and we will make it we should do it and we will make it happen. But for today's AMA, we are not happen. But for today's AMA, we are not happen. But for today's AMA, we are not talking about that. We're actually going talking about that. We're actually going talking about that. We're actually going to talk about one topic and that is all to talk about one topic and that is all to talk about one topic and that is all things related to muscle mass and muscle things related to muscle mass and muscle things related to muscle mass and muscle strength. So, it's something that we've strength. So, it's something that we've strength. So, it's something that we've talked about on a lot of different talked about on a lot of different talked about on a lot of different podcasts. You openly talk about the podcasts. You openly talk about the podcasts. You openly talk about the importance of it and we've gathered a importance of it and we've gathered a importance of it and we've gathered a lot of questions that have come in and lot of questions that have come in and lot of questions that have come in and these questions are going to deal with these questions are going to deal with these questions are going to deal with why is muscle mass and strength why is muscle mass and strength why is muscle mass and strength important? the difference between muscle important? the difference between muscle important? the difference between muscle mass and strength. Which one matters mass and strength. Which one matters mass and strength. Which one matters more? How can you start to increase your more? How can you start to increase your more? How can you start to increase your muscle mass and strength? Whether you're muscle mass and strength? Whether you're muscle mass and strength? Whether you're old, young, male, female, the role of old, young, male, female, the role of old, young, male, female, the role of nutrition and protein, one of your nutrition and protein, one of your nutrition and protein, one of your favorite topics in this. And then we'll favorite topics in this. And then we'll favorite topics in this. And then we'll end with some different programming end with some different programming end with some different programming options for different types of people if options for different types of people if options for different types of people if they want to start applying this to they want to start applying this to they want to start applying this to their life or if they want to start their life or if they want to start their life or if they want to start going further than their current going further than their current going further than their current exercise programming. So with all that exercise programming. So with all that exercise programming. So with all that said, some people may say, you know, you said, some people may say, you know, you said, some people may say, you know, you have a lot of information on this have a lot of information on this have a lot of information on this already in episodes with Lane Norton, already in episodes with Lane Norton, already in episodes with Lane Norton, Andy Galpin, Mike Israel, and many more. Andy Galpin, Mike Israel, and many more. Andy Galpin, Mike Israel, and many more. So what would you say to someone who So what would you say to someone who So what would you say to someone who asks like why are we now dedicating an asks like why are we now dedicating an asks like why are we now dedicating an AMA to this? I think it's a it's a fair AMA to this? I think it's a it's a fair AMA to this? I think it's a it's a fair question and one that we internally kind question and one that we internally kind question and one that we internally kind of kicked around and and I think two of kicked around and and I think two of kicked around and and I think two things put us in in the situation we're things put us in in the situation we're things put us in in the situation we're in. So, one is we we continue to get in. So, one is we we continue to get in. So, one is we we continue to get asked more questions about this than asked more questions about this than asked more questions about this than almost anything. I would say it's among almost anything. I would say it's among almost anything. I would say it's among the three most asked about topics. Um, the three most asked about topics. Um, the three most asked about topics. Um, but I think the second thing is because but I think the second thing is because but I think the second thing is because we have so much content out there, if we have so much content out there, if we have so much content out there, if you want to kind of get the TLDDR on you want to kind of get the TLDDR on you want to kind of get the TLDDR on this, you're going to be spending hours this, you're going to be spending hours this, you're going to be spending hours and hours and hours, you know, sort of and hours and hours, you know, sort of and hours and hours, you know, sort of 20 hours worth of digging. And so what 20 hours worth of digging. And so what 20 hours worth of digging. And so what we thought we could do was organize the we thought we could do was organize the we thought we could do was organize the content in a way that would make it much content in a way that would make it much content in a way that would make it much easier for a person in what will easier for a person in what will easier for a person in what will undoubtedly be a much smaller aloquat of undoubtedly be a much smaller aloquat of undoubtedly be a much smaller aloquat of time um to get everything that they need time um to get everything that they need time um to get everything that they need to get out of this at the sort of zeroth to get out of this at the sort of zeroth to get out of this at the sort of zeroth order and maybe first order level um and order and maybe first order level um and order and maybe first order level um and then really kind of through the show then really kind of through the show then really kind of through the show notes and um supplemental material go as notes and um supplemental material go as notes and um supplemental material go as deep as they want uh if if they need deep as they want uh if if they need deep as they want uh if if they need more content. But I but I I think we're more content. But I but I I think we're more content. But I but I I think we're going to we're going to deliver on this going to we're going to deliver on this going to we're going to deliver on this one. We've we've put a lot of work into one. We've we've put a lot of work into one. We've we've put a lot of work into it. it. it. Well, you should because it sounds like Well, you should because it sounds like Well, you should because it sounds like if you don't, next time you go to school if you don't, next time you go to school if you don't, next time you go to school pickup or drop off, you're going to hear pickup or drop off, you're going to hear pickup or drop off, you're going to hear an earful from some kids. So, an earful from some kids. So, an earful from some kids. So, >> I'm half expecting the next time I go in >> I'm half expecting the next time I go in >> I'm half expecting the next time I go in for someone to be like, "Dude, like why for someone to be like, "Dude, like why for someone to be like, "Dude, like why are you so weak looking?" Like, I mean, are you so weak looking?" Like, I mean, are you so weak looking?" Like, I mean, like, why do you have such chicken arms? like, why do you have such chicken arms? like, why do you have such chicken arms? Like, do you not work out? Like, do you not work out? Like, do you not work out? >> Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just not saying it's a bad idea if you just not saying it's a bad idea if you just not saying it's a bad idea if you roll up to the next one shirtless, maybe roll up to the next one shirtless, maybe roll up to the next one shirtless, maybe after a little dehydration, a little after a little dehydration, a little after a little dehydration, a little pump prior to just to let those kids pump prior to just to let those kids pump prior to just to let those kids know who's in charge know who's in charge know who's in charge on that. Um, let's start with some on that. Um, let's start with some on that. Um, let's start with some definitions. Muscle mass, muscle definitions. Muscle mass, muscle definitions. Muscle mass, muscle strength. Two things that are kind of strength. Two things that are kind of strength. Two things that are kind of used intertwined, but also a little used intertwined, but also a little used intertwined, but also a little different. We'll get into them here different. We'll get into them here different. We'll get into them here where I think it'd be helpful to start. where I think it'd be helpful to start. where I think it'd be helpful to start. What is the definition of each of those What is the definition of each of those What is the definition of each of those and how we're going to talk about it? So and how we're going to talk about it? So and how we're going to talk about it? So I mean I think most people understand I mean I think most people understand I mean I think most people understand that they are different. I think the that they are different. I think the that they are different. I think the confusion comes from the fact that we confusion comes from the fact that we confusion comes from the fact that we will interchangeably talk about metrics will interchangeably talk about metrics will interchangeably talk about metrics of both of them and we we're going to of both of them and we we're going to of both of them and we we're going to clarify this but of course muscle mass clarify this but of course muscle mass clarify this but of course muscle mass is simply the total amount of skeletal is simply the total amount of skeletal is simply the total amount of skeletal muscle in the body. There are three muscle in the body. There are three muscle in the body. There are three types of muscle in the body. Um we have types of muscle in the body. Um we have types of muscle in the body. Um we have cardiac muscle which looks and behaves a cardiac muscle which looks and behaves a cardiac muscle which looks and behaves a lot like skeletal muscle but has lot like skeletal muscle but has lot like skeletal muscle but has properties that allow it to basically properties that allow it to basically properties that allow it to basically run nonstop for the duration of your run nonstop for the duration of your run nonstop for the duration of your life. We have smooth muscle that is life. We have smooth muscle that is life. We have smooth muscle that is actually quite distinct from skeletal actually quite distinct from skeletal actually quite distinct from skeletal muscle. Uh but the bulk of muscle in the muscle. Uh but the bulk of muscle in the muscle. Uh but the bulk of muscle in the human body is indeed skeletal. Um it has human body is indeed skeletal. Um it has human body is indeed skeletal. Um it has contractile properties that allow it to contractile properties that allow it to contractile properties that allow it to generate force. It has certain metabolic generate force. It has certain metabolic generate force. It has certain metabolic requirements. Um but nevertheless, this requirements. Um but nevertheless, this requirements. Um but nevertheless, this is this is what we're referring to. is this is what we're referring to. is this is what we're referring to. Again, I think of this as having um a Again, I think of this as having um a Again, I think of this as having um a structural function and a metabolic structural function and a metabolic structural function and a metabolic function. We're going to talk about both function. We're going to talk about both function. We're going to talk about both of these. Um, of course, the related of these. Um, of course, the related of these. Um, of course, the related metric is strength. Um, and that's the metric is strength. Um, and that's the metric is strength. Um, and that's the ability to exert force to overcome ability to exert force to overcome ability to exert force to overcome resistance. Uh, so again, I think that's resistance. Uh, so again, I think that's resistance. Uh, so again, I think that's very intuitively obvious to everybody. very intuitively obvious to everybody. very intuitively obvious to everybody. Um, but but nevertheless, we could we Um, but but nevertheless, we could we Um, but but nevertheless, we could we could talk about those things. Um, two could talk about those things. Um, two could talk about those things. Um, two additional concepts just to introduce is additional concepts just to introduce is additional concepts just to introduce is the um the the idea of hypertrophy. Um, the um the the idea of hypertrophy. Um, the um the the idea of hypertrophy. Um, so in addition to how strong a muscle so in addition to how strong a muscle so in addition to how strong a muscle is, how much force it can overcome, we is, how much force it can overcome, we is, how much force it can overcome, we can talk about the size of the muscle. can talk about the size of the muscle. can talk about the size of the muscle. Um, and then we can talk about power. Um, and then we can talk about power. Um, and then we can talk about power. Um, which is something that probably Um, which is something that probably Um, which is something that probably doesn't get talked about enough, doesn't get talked about enough, doesn't get talked about enough, although we certainly talk about it although we certainly talk about it although we certainly talk about it quite a bit on the podcast. And power quite a bit on the podcast. And power quite a bit on the podcast. And power should not be confused with strength, should not be confused with strength, should not be confused with strength, although there's a strong relationship although there's a strong relationship although there's a strong relationship between them. Power incorporates between them. Power incorporates between them. Power incorporates velocity. So um uh and there's an velocity. So um uh and there's an velocity. So um uh and there's an inverted U shape between that describes inverted U shape between that describes inverted U shape between that describes the relationship where the as resistance the relationship where the as resistance the relationship where the as resistance goes up um one is able to move with high goes up um one is able to move with high goes up um one is able to move with high enough speed that they can continue to enough speed that they can continue to enough speed that they can continue to increase power but as the resistance increase power but as the resistance increase power but as the resistance gets beyond a certain point speed will gets beyond a certain point speed will gets beyond a certain point speed will come down and actually power is coming come down and actually power is coming come down and actually power is coming down even while strength is going up. down even while strength is going up. down even while strength is going up. So, um, that that kind of rounds out So, um, that that kind of rounds out So, um, that that kind of rounds out some of the semantics. some of the semantics. some of the semantics. >> And just hitting this right off the bat, >> And just hitting this right off the bat, >> And just hitting this right off the bat, why is muscle mass and muscle strength why is muscle mass and muscle strength why is muscle mass and muscle strength important for someone to consider in the important for someone to consider in the important for someone to consider in the concept of lifespan? Aka, why should concept of lifespan? Aka, why should concept of lifespan? Aka, why should everyone who's listening to this care everyone who's listening to this care everyone who's listening to this care about this topic? about this topic? about this topic? >> I think what I want people to kind of >> I think what I want people to kind of >> I think what I want people to kind of fixate on now is while we will go back fixate on now is while we will go back fixate on now is while we will go back and forth between them, that is simply and forth between them, that is simply and forth between them, that is simply um an outcome of the data. So we we we um an outcome of the data. So we we we um an outcome of the data. So we we we have to lean on sort of what data are have to lean on sort of what data are have to lean on sort of what data are out there and sometimes the data are out there and sometimes the data are out there and sometimes the data are looking at uh muscle mass. Um sometimes looking at uh muscle mass. Um sometimes looking at uh muscle mass. Um sometimes they are looking at strength, sometimes they are looking at strength, sometimes they are looking at strength, sometimes they're looking at both. What we really they're looking at both. What we really they're looking at both. What we really care about is strength. And therefore care about is strength. And therefore care about is strength. And therefore when we look at measurements of lean when we look at measurements of lean when we look at measurements of lean muscle, which is very easy to measure, muscle, which is very easy to measure, muscle, which is very easy to measure, it's actually, you know, that that's a it's actually, you know, that that's a it's actually, you know, that that's a big part of why we measure it. It's big part of why we measure it. It's big part of why we measure it. It's objective. It's easy to measure. Um, and objective. It's easy to measure. Um, and objective. It's easy to measure. Um, and it can be compared across studies much it can be compared across studies much it can be compared across studies much more easily than strength can, for more easily than strength can, for more easily than strength can, for example. Um, although when you example. Um, although when you example. Um, although when you standardize metrics of strength, standardize metrics of strength, standardize metrics of strength, obviously it can be pretty easy as well. obviously it can be pretty easy as well. obviously it can be pretty easy as well. But it's it's the strength that we care But it's it's the strength that we care But it's it's the strength that we care about and it's strength that is probably about and it's strength that is probably about and it's strength that is probably much more highly associated with uh not much more highly associated with uh not much more highly associated with uh not just correlated with but causally just correlated with but causally just correlated with but causally associated with mortality, associated with mortality, associated with mortality, cardiovascular disease, neurologic cardiovascular disease, neurologic cardiovascular disease, neurologic disease than muscle mass itself. So what disease than muscle mass itself. So what disease than muscle mass itself. So what I would say is we talk about muscle mass I would say is we talk about muscle mass I would say is we talk about muscle mass a lot. We care about muscle mass a lot. a lot. We care about muscle mass a lot. a lot. We care about muscle mass a lot. It plays an important role in the It plays an important role in the It plays an important role in the metabolic function of muscle. But maybe metabolic function of muscle. But maybe metabolic function of muscle. But maybe above all else, just think of it as a above all else, just think of it as a above all else, just think of it as a great proxy for strength, not a onetoone great proxy for strength, not a onetoone great proxy for strength, not a onetoone proxy. I know everybody listening to proxy. I know everybody listening to proxy. I know everybody listening to this has met a really wiry person who is this has met a really wiry person who is this has met a really wiry person who is insanely strong. And there are actually insanely strong. And there are actually insanely strong. And there are actually some people who have quite a bit of some people who have quite a bit of some people who have quite a bit of muscle mass and yet they're not actually muscle mass and yet they're not actually muscle mass and yet they're not actually that strong. Um, but if you exclude kind that strong. Um, but if you exclude kind that strong. Um, but if you exclude kind of the extremes in the bookends, there of the extremes in the bookends, there of the extremes in the bookends, there seems to be a reasonable mapping between seems to be a reasonable mapping between seems to be a reasonable mapping between muscle mass and strength. And Peter, is muscle mass and strength. And Peter, is muscle mass and strength. And Peter, is there anything we know about how much of there anything we know about how much of there anything we know about how much of a difference muscle mass strength can a difference muscle mass strength can a difference muscle mass strength can make as it relates to lifespan? make as it relates to lifespan? make as it relates to lifespan? >> Yes, I I think this is a great way to >> Yes, I I think this is a great way to >> Yes, I I think this is a great way to think about all of the things that are think about all of the things that are think about all of the things that are associated with mortality. So, um I associated with mortality. So, um I associated with mortality. So, um I sometimes will ask this question of sometimes will ask this question of sometimes will ask this question of people, you know, as just a way to to people, you know, as just a way to to people, you know, as just a way to to demonstrate and not to be cheeky, but demonstrate and not to be cheeky, but demonstrate and not to be cheeky, but just to kind of demonstrate the obvious, just to kind of demonstrate the obvious, just to kind of demonstrate the obvious, as a way to, you know, you know, reframe as a way to, you know, you know, reframe as a way to, you know, you know, reframe the discussion. So if I say to a group the discussion. So if I say to a group the discussion. So if I say to a group of people what factor is most associated of people what factor is most associated of people what factor is most associated with mortality let me know what you with mortality let me know what you with mortality let me know what you think and people will say you know think and people will say you know think and people will say you know smoking high blood pressure you know all smoking high blood pressure you know all smoking high blood pressure you know all sorts of things the answer is age right sorts of things the answer is age right sorts of things the answer is age right so nothing associates more with so nothing associates more with so nothing associates more with mortality than age which by the way as a mortality than age which by the way as a mortality than age which by the way as a total aside is why I still find aging total aside is why I still find aging total aside is why I still find aging clocks to be unhelpful because biologic clocks to be unhelpful because biologic clocks to be unhelpful because biologic age chronologic age. Trying to suggest age chronologic age. Trying to suggest age chronologic age. Trying to suggest that those are different requires that those are different requires that those are different requires demonstrating that biologic age as demonstrating that biologic age as demonstrating that biologic age as demonstrated through um an aging clock demonstrated through um an aging clock demonstrated through um an aging clock is a superior predictor of mortality is a superior predictor of mortality is a superior predictor of mortality than chronologic age. Um and nothing has than chronologic age. Um and nothing has than chronologic age. Um and nothing has come close to even being within the zip come close to even being within the zip come close to even being within the zip code of the zip code of the zip code of code of the zip code of the zip code of code of the zip code of the zip code of the thing that I'm talking about. So the thing that I'm talking about. So the thing that I'm talking about. So when you look at GMert's law for when you look at GMert's law for when you look at GMert's law for mortality, you see an exponential mortality, you see an exponential mortality, you see an exponential increase in mortality with age. Um increase in mortality with age. Um increase in mortality with age. Um [clears throat] I'm going to pull up a [clears throat] I'm going to pull up a [clears throat] I'm going to pull up a figure here in a second in which I tried figure here in a second in which I tried figure here in a second in which I tried to depict to depict to depict law by decade. Um in other words, what law by decade. Um in other words, what law by decade. Um in other words, what was the relative risk of mortality with was the relative risk of mortality with was the relative risk of mortality with each passing decade? And it dwarfed all each passing decade? And it dwarfed all each passing decade? And it dwarfed all the other stuff on here. So it didn't the other stuff on here. So it didn't the other stuff on here. So it didn't make sense to put on. I'm only throwing make sense to put on. I'm only throwing make sense to put on. I'm only throwing all that out there, Nick, as an aside to all that out there, Nick, as an aside to all that out there, Nick, as an aside to say um I am excluding the elephant in say um I am excluding the elephant in say um I am excluding the elephant in the room with this uh with this figure the room with this uh with this figure the room with this uh with this figure that we put together um by excluding that we put together um by excluding that we put together um by excluding age. But if you [clears throat] take age. But if you [clears throat] take age. But if you [clears throat] take that off the table, what I'm showing you that off the table, what I'm showing you that off the table, what I'm showing you here is a collection of hazard ratios here is a collection of hazard ratios here is a collection of hazard ratios for all cause mortality. Again, not from for all cause mortality. Again, not from for all cause mortality. Again, not from head-to-head studies. These are from uh head-to-head studies. These are from uh head-to-head studies. These are from uh at least four if not five different at least four if not five different at least four if not five different studies, all of which will be referenced studies, all of which will be referenced studies, all of which will be referenced in the show notes. But what we're in the show notes. But what we're in the show notes. But what we're showing you is what is the um increase showing you is what is the um increase showing you is what is the um increase in all cause mortality for individuals in all cause mortality for individuals in all cause mortality for individuals across these uh various uh data points. across these uh various uh data points. across these uh various uh data points. So if you consider the figure here um So if you consider the figure here um So if you consider the figure here um some of these will be completely some of these will be completely some of these will be completely familiar to people who have heard me familiar to people who have heard me familiar to people who have heard me talk about this in the past. So if you talk about this in the past. So if you talk about this in the past. So if you look at the things on the left of this look at the things on the left of this look at the things on the left of this graph, we're looking at uh markers of graph, we're looking at uh markers of graph, we're looking at uh markers of cardiorespiratory fitness. The easiest cardiorespiratory fitness. The easiest cardiorespiratory fitness. The easiest way to measure that by far, of course, way to measure that by far, of course, way to measure that by far, of course, is V2 max, which is why we talk about it is V2 max, which is why we talk about it is V2 max, which is why we talk about it so much. So if you're comparing what's so much. So if you're comparing what's so much. So if you're comparing what's called above average to elite, that's called above average to elite, that's called above average to elite, that's basically someone who's in the um third basically someone who's in the um third basically someone who's in the um third quartile, so 50th to 75th percentile, uh quartile, so 50th to 75th percentile, uh quartile, so 50th to 75th percentile, uh to someone who is um you know in the top to someone who is um you know in the top to someone who is um you know in the top 2%, we're talking about a two-fold 2%, we're talking about a two-fold 2%, we're talking about a two-fold difference. Uh by the way, the little difference. Uh by the way, the little difference. Uh by the way, the little bars on this thing, those are error bars on this thing, those are error bars on this thing, those are error bars. So 95% confidence intervals. Um, bars. So 95% confidence intervals. Um, bars. So 95% confidence intervals. Um, if you're looking at someone with low V2 if you're looking at someone with low V2 if you're looking at someone with low V2 max, uh, so, you know, this would be max, uh, so, you know, this would be max, uh, so, you know, this would be somebody in the bottom 25 percentile to somebody in the bottom 25 percentile to somebody in the bottom 25 percentile to someone in the top 2 percentile, you're someone in the top 2 percentile, you're someone in the top 2 percentile, you're talking about a fivefold difference in talking about a fivefold difference in talking about a fivefold difference in mortality, meaning there's a five times mortality, meaning there's a five times mortality, meaning there's a five times greater difference of dying in the greater difference of dying in the greater difference of dying in the subsequent year from any and all causes. subsequent year from any and all causes. subsequent year from any and all causes. Um, I'm going to skip some of the other Um, I'm going to skip some of the other Um, I'm going to skip some of the other V2 max ones, but let's say you look at, V2 max ones, but let's say you look at, V2 max ones, but let's say you look at, you know, grip strength, right? So you you know, grip strength, right? So you you know, grip strength, right? So you look at every reduction of grip strength look at every reduction of grip strength look at every reduction of grip strength by 10 kilos is about a 30% increase in by 10 kilos is about a 30% increase in by 10 kilos is about a 30% increase in all cause mortality. Um when you look at all cause mortality. Um when you look at all cause mortality. Um when you look at different metrics of muscle mass um if different metrics of muscle mass um if different metrics of muscle mass um if you compare bottom to say middle you compare bottom to say middle you compare bottom to say middle quartile of muscle mass you're talking quartile of muscle mass you're talking quartile of muscle mass you're talking about 2.3 hazard ratio which means 130% about 2.3 hazard ratio which means 130% about 2.3 hazard ratio which means 130% increase in all cause more mortality. Uh increase in all cause more mortality. Uh increase in all cause more mortality. Uh and again at the right side of this and again at the right side of this and again at the right side of this figure, I'm just showing you things that figure, I'm just showing you things that figure, I'm just showing you things that people would commonly and appreciate uh people would commonly and appreciate uh people would commonly and appreciate uh are driving mortality, such as type 2 are driving mortality, such as type 2 are driving mortality, such as type 2 diabetes, which is about a 40% increase diabetes, which is about a 40% increase diabetes, which is about a 40% increase in all-c causeed mortality. Uncontrolled in all-c causeed mortality. Uncontrolled in all-c causeed mortality. Uncontrolled hypertension, high blood pressure, about hypertension, high blood pressure, about hypertension, high blood pressure, about a 60% increase in all-c cause mortality, a 60% increase in all-c cause mortality, a 60% increase in all-c cause mortality, and of course smoking, which from a and of course smoking, which from a and of course smoking, which from a modifiable lifestyle behavior would be modifiable lifestyle behavior would be modifiable lifestyle behavior would be right near the top of the list um at right near the top of the list um at right near the top of the list um at about a 2.8 hazard ratio, at least in about a 2.8 hazard ratio, at least in about a 2.8 hazard ratio, at least in one study. I've seen other studies that one study. I've seen other studies that one study. I've seen other studies that has it as low as 1.4. for obviously the has it as low as 1.4. for obviously the has it as low as 1.4. for obviously the duration of tobacco use comes into that duration of tobacco use comes into that duration of tobacco use comes into that but there's no mistaking the role on but there's no mistaking the role on but there's no mistaking the role on that. So what do we take away from all that. So what do we take away from all that. So what do we take away from all of this? We take away from this that of this? We take away from this that of this? We take away from this that muscle mass, strength, cardiorespiratory muscle mass, strength, cardiorespiratory muscle mass, strength, cardiorespiratory fitness play an enormous role in fitness play an enormous role in fitness play an enormous role in predicting how long you're going to predicting how long you're going to predicting how long you're going to live. Um and again while age is the the live. Um and again while age is the the live. Um and again while age is the the the king of kings when it comes to the king of kings when it comes to the king of kings when it comes to predicting how much longer you're going predicting how much longer you're going predicting how much longer you're going to live, these things play a huge role to live, these things play a huge role to live, these things play a huge role as well. And we talked about grip as well. And we talked about grip as well. And we talked about grip strength before, but I think it'd be strength before, but I think it'd be strength before, but I think it'd be worth just quickly double clicking on worth just quickly double clicking on worth just quickly double clicking on grip strength. And can you talk about grip strength. And can you talk about grip strength. And can you talk about how that is related to mortality? how that is related to mortality? how that is related to mortality? >> Yeah, I mean grip strength is a very >> Yeah, I mean grip strength is a very >> Yeah, I mean grip strength is a very easy thing to test. So when I moment easy thing to test. So when I moment easy thing to test. So when I moment ago, I said, hey, look, um, muscle mass ago, I said, hey, look, um, muscle mass ago, I said, hey, look, um, muscle mass is often used as a proxy for strength. is often used as a proxy for strength. is often used as a proxy for strength. Why? Well, it's because DEXA is a Why? Well, it's because DEXA is a Why? Well, it's because DEXA is a ubiquitous test. It's very easy for ubiquitous test. It's very easy for ubiquitous test. It's very easy for researchers to use DEXA. It can be researchers to use DEXA. It can be researchers to use DEXA. It can be standardized from one place to another, standardized from one place to another, standardized from one place to another, so it's easy to use. So then when you so it's easy to use. So then when you so it's easy to use. So then when you start to think about strength metrics, start to think about strength metrics, start to think about strength metrics, well, one of the easiest things that we well, one of the easiest things that we well, one of the easiest things that we can do is test grip strength. It's also can do is test grip strength. It's also can do is test grip strength. It's also not just easy to reproduce, u but I not just easy to reproduce, u but I not just easy to reproduce, u but I would argue it's a great representation would argue it's a great representation would argue it's a great representation of upper body strength. So people who of upper body strength. So people who of upper body strength. So people who have a very strong grip tend to have a have a very strong grip tend to have a have a very strong grip tend to have a very strong upper body. Um you can't do very strong upper body. Um you can't do very strong upper body. Um you can't do many things that require a lot of upper many things that require a lot of upper many things that require a lot of upper body strength if your grip is very weak. body strength if your grip is very weak. body strength if your grip is very weak. Um so nevertheless if we look at uh grip Um so nevertheless if we look at uh grip Um so nevertheless if we look at uh grip strength what do we know about it? So strength what do we know about it? So strength what do we know about it? So there was um a study called the pure there was um a study called the pure there was um a study called the pure study that measured grip strength in you study that measured grip strength in you study that measured grip strength in you know somewhere in the ballpark of know somewhere in the ballpark of know somewhere in the ballpark of 140,000 people across 17 countries. Um 140,000 people across 17 countries. Um 140,000 people across 17 countries. Um and they found that lower grip strength and they found that lower grip strength and they found that lower grip strength compared to higher grip strength uh was compared to higher grip strength uh was compared to higher grip strength uh was a significant predictor of all cause a significant predictor of all cause a significant predictor of all cause mortality. So every 5 kilogram reduction mortality. So every 5 kilogram reduction mortality. So every 5 kilogram reduction in grip strength was associated with a in grip strength was associated with a in grip strength was associated with a 16% 16% 16% increase in mortality. Meaning every 5 increase in mortality. Meaning every 5 increase in mortality. Meaning every 5 kilos or 10 lbs of reduced grip strength kilos or 10 lbs of reduced grip strength kilos or 10 lbs of reduced grip strength compared to someone who had more grip compared to someone who had more grip compared to someone who had more grip strength to that amount there was a 16% strength to that amount there was a 16% strength to that amount there was a 16% chance of dying in the subsequent year chance of dying in the subsequent year chance of dying in the subsequent year from any and all cause. Um another very from any and all cause. Um another very from any and all cause. Um another very interesting study um looked at uh people interesting study um looked at uh people interesting study um looked at uh people in their eighth decade of life. So these in their eighth decade of life. So these in their eighth decade of life. So these were people um aged 70 to 79 at baseline were people um aged 70 to 79 at baseline were people um aged 70 to 79 at baseline and it followed them for 7 years. And so and it followed them for 7 years. And so and it followed them for 7 years. And so these people were divided into these people were divided into these people were divided into quartortiles based on muscle mass and quartortiles based on muscle mass and quartortiles based on muscle mass and strength. So separate separate analysis. strength. So separate separate analysis. strength. So separate separate analysis. So, DEXA was used to quantify muscle So, DEXA was used to quantify muscle So, DEXA was used to quantify muscle mass and um I believe they use uh uh leg mass and um I believe they use uh uh leg mass and um I believe they use uh uh leg extension for quad strength. They might extension for quad strength. They might extension for quad strength. They might have used grip strength as well um for have used grip strength as well um for have used grip strength as well um for upper body strength. Okay. So, basically upper body strength. Okay. So, basically upper body strength. Okay. So, basically you have um quartortiles of strength, you have um quartortiles of strength, you have um quartortiles of strength, quartortiles of muscle mass in people quartortiles of muscle mass in people quartortiles of muscle mass in people who are in their eighth decade of life who are in their eighth decade of life who are in their eighth decade of life and they are prospectively followed. Um, and they are prospectively followed. Um, and they are prospectively followed. Um, and what we're looking for basically is and what we're looking for basically is and what we're looking for basically is what's called the Kaplan Meyer survival what's called the Kaplan Meyer survival what's called the Kaplan Meyer survival curve. So, if you pull up these curves curve. So, if you pull up these curves curve. So, if you pull up these curves here, Nick, you can see that there's uh here, Nick, you can see that there's uh here, Nick, you can see that there's uh obviously because it's a Kaplan Meyer obviously because it's a Kaplan Meyer obviously because it's a Kaplan Meyer curve, it's cumulative. You can see a curve, it's cumulative. You can see a curve, it's cumulative. You can see a monotonic increase in mortality for all monotonic increase in mortality for all monotonic increase in mortality for all groups, but what you notice is the groups, but what you notice is the groups, but what you notice is the strongest groups and the groups with the strongest groups and the groups with the strongest groups and the groups with the most muscle mass always have the highest most muscle mass always have the highest most muscle mass always have the highest survival. Uh again, the uh mortality survival. Uh again, the uh mortality survival. Uh again, the uh mortality rates are pretty high in this figure, rates are pretty high in this figure, rates are pretty high in this figure, right? This is a seven-year follow-up in right? This is a seven-year follow-up in right? This is a seven-year follow-up in people that are starting late in life. people that are starting late in life. people that are starting late in life. So, you you you wouldn't expect to see So, you you you wouldn't expect to see So, you you you wouldn't expect to see this steep a mortality um drop in uh you this steep a mortality um drop in uh you this steep a mortality um drop in uh you know, if they were doing this in people know, if they were doing this in people know, if they were doing this in people aged 50 to 59, two decades younger. But aged 50 to 59, two decades younger. But aged 50 to 59, two decades younger. But the reason I suspect that they chose to the reason I suspect that they chose to the reason I suspect that they chose to do this is because they wanted to do this is because they wanted to do this is because they wanted to actually see some separation. So uh actually see some separation. So uh actually see some separation. So uh again another very clear indication of again another very clear indication of again another very clear indication of at least a very strong association at least a very strong association at least a very strong association between muscle mass and muscle strength between muscle mass and muscle strength between muscle mass and muscle strength in terms of all cause mortality. in terms of all cause mortality. in terms of all cause mortality. >> And [clears throat] >> And [clears throat] >> And [clears throat] what do we know about muscle strength what do we know about muscle strength what do we know about muscle strength and muscle mass being causally related and muscle mass being causally related and muscle mass being causally related to mortality? Because I think sometimes to mortality? Because I think sometimes to mortality? Because I think sometimes you're going to hear people say, well, you're going to hear people say, well, you're going to hear people say, well, is it just that people who are stronger is it just that people who are stronger is it just that people who are stronger tend to be healthier in other ways too tend to be healthier in other ways too tend to be healthier in other ways too and then live longer as a result? So, and then live longer as a result? So, and then live longer as a result? So, how do you think about that? Yeah, I how do you think about that? Yeah, I how do you think about that? Yeah, I think this is a very important question think this is a very important question think this is a very important question because I absolutely believe that there because I absolutely believe that there because I absolutely believe that there is birectionality in this association. is birectionality in this association. is birectionality in this association. So the healthier you are, the more So the healthier you are, the more So the healthier you are, the more easily you can do the things that make easily you can do the things that make easily you can do the things that make you stronger and make you have more you stronger and make you have more you stronger and make you have more muscle and that should be playing a role muscle and that should be playing a role muscle and that should be playing a role in how long you live in addition to the in how long you live in addition to the in how long you live in addition to the fact that doing those things allows you fact that doing those things allows you fact that doing those things allows you to live longer. So how so so that's my to live longer. So how so so that's my to live longer. So how so so that's my thesis, right? So how how would you get thesis, right? So how how would you get thesis, right? So how how would you get at that? Well, you you know it's very at that? Well, you you know it's very at that? Well, you you know it's very difficult to do a randomized experiment. difficult to do a randomized experiment. difficult to do a randomized experiment. Um but if we look at uh Mandelian Um but if we look at uh Mandelian Um but if we look at uh Mandelian randomization um which again we've randomization um which again we've randomization um which again we've talked about many times in the past but talked about many times in the past but talked about many times in the past but this is basically looking at um this is basically looking at um this is basically looking at um genetic scattering of traits that we genetic scattering of traits that we genetic scattering of traits that we care about um and asking the question care about um and asking the question care about um and asking the question how does that impact the parameter of how does that impact the parameter of how does that impact the parameter of interest. So if we look at mandelian interest. So if we look at mandelian interest. So if we look at mandelian randomization studies um that look at randomization studies um that look at randomization studies um that look at the relationship between muscle mass and the relationship between muscle mass and the relationship between muscle mass and mortality they do in find at they do mortality they do in find at they do mortality they do in find at they do find at least partial causality find at least partial causality find at least partial causality um rather than strength just being a um rather than strength just being a um rather than strength just being a proxy for general health. So one study proxy for general health. So one study proxy for general health. So one study that looked at I mean that looked at I mean that looked at I mean 300 350,000 300 350,000 300 350,000 Finnish uh bioank participants used a Finnish uh bioank participants used a Finnish uh bioank participants used a polygenic score as a proxy for grip polygenic score as a proxy for grip polygenic score as a proxy for grip strength. So in other words, um a whole strength. So in other words, um a whole strength. So in other words, um a whole series of genes uh were associated with series of genes uh were associated with series of genes uh were associated with grip strength. Again, this is not hard grip strength. Again, this is not hard grip strength. Again, this is not hard to imagine, right? Everybody knows that to imagine, right? Everybody knows that to imagine, right? Everybody knows that person who's just stronger than person who's just stronger than person who's just stronger than everybody else, right? Um and um when everybody else, right? Um and um when everybody else, right? Um and um when they looked at the that polygenic uh they looked at the that polygenic uh they looked at the that polygenic uh marker for grip strength and uh assessed marker for grip strength and uh assessed marker for grip strength and uh assessed the relationship to chronic disease and the relationship to chronic disease and the relationship to chronic disease and mortality, they found that each standard mortality, they found that each standard mortality, they found that each standard deviation increase in grip strength from deviation increase in grip strength from deviation increase in grip strength from the polygenic score was linked to a the polygenic score was linked to a the polygenic score was linked to a reduction of risk for vascular dementia reduction of risk for vascular dementia reduction of risk for vascular dementia by 7%, obesity by 6%, uh 5% for type 2 by 7%, obesity by 6%, uh 5% for type 2 by 7%, obesity by 6%, uh 5% for type 2 diabetes at 4% per mace, and 3% for all diabetes at 4% per mace, and 3% for all diabetes at 4% per mace, and 3% for all cause mortality. Um so again that's one cause mortality. Um so again that's one cause mortality. Um so again that's one way to look at this. Um but again it way to look at this. Um but again it way to look at this. Um but again it suggests to me birectionality here in suggests to me birectionality here in suggests to me birectionality here in that yes I think that the magnitude of that yes I think that the magnitude of that yes I think that the magnitude of the benefit that we see in the pure the benefit that we see in the pure the benefit that we see in the pure observational cohorts uh clearly observational cohorts uh clearly observational cohorts uh clearly reflects the health of the user as well reflects the health of the user as well reflects the health of the user as well that enables them to train. And Peter, that enables them to train. And Peter, that enables them to train. And Peter, in the past when we talked about V2 max, in the past when we talked about V2 max, in the past when we talked about V2 max, you've often spoke about how it is such you've often spoke about how it is such you've often spoke about how it is such a good metric because it's an integrator a good metric because it's an integrator a good metric because it's an integrator of the work done, right? Meaning you of the work done, right? Meaning you of the work done, right? Meaning you can't just cram for a V2 max test the can't just cram for a V2 max test the can't just cram for a V2 max test the week before and greatly increase your V2 week before and greatly increase your V2 week before and greatly increase your V2 max. Is that also kind of similar to max. Is that also kind of similar to max. Is that also kind of similar to muscle strength, muscle mass? I think muscle strength, muscle mass? I think muscle strength, muscle mass? I think that's exactly why V2 max, muscle mass, that's exactly why V2 max, muscle mass, that's exactly why V2 max, muscle mass, and strength show up as such strong and strength show up as such strong and strength show up as such strong predictors is that they they integrate predictors is that they they integrate predictors is that they they integrate and aggregate years of work that go into and aggregate years of work that go into and aggregate years of work that go into producing high results. You know, we say producing high results. You know, we say producing high results. You know, we say this all the time to our patients um this all the time to our patients um this all the time to our patients um when they show up and test very poorly, when they show up and test very poorly, when they show up and test very poorly, right? So, when someone shows up and right? So, when someone shows up and right? So, when someone shows up and they're in the bottom, you know, 5% for they're in the bottom, you know, 5% for they're in the bottom, you know, 5% for muscle mass and their strength is poor muscle mass and their strength is poor muscle mass and their strength is poor and their fitness is poor, um, we we we and their fitness is poor, um, we we we and their fitness is poor, um, we we we explained to them that this is not explained to them that this is not explained to them that this is not something that's going to turn around something that's going to turn around something that's going to turn around this year. Um, this is not like fixing this year. Um, this is not like fixing this year. Um, this is not like fixing your APOB, even fixing your insulin your APOB, even fixing your insulin your APOB, even fixing your insulin resistance and things like that, which resistance and things like that, which resistance and things like that, which take a lot of work. This is the longest take a lot of work. This is the longest take a lot of work. This is the longest part of your health journey if you're part of your health journey if you're part of your health journey if you're starting with a very low base. Um, and I starting with a very low base. Um, and I starting with a very low base. Um, and I think just, you know, understanding that think just, you know, understanding that think just, you know, understanding that and saying, "Look, this it's going to be and saying, "Look, this it's going to be and saying, "Look, this it's going to be probably three years before we get your probably three years before we get your probably three years before we get your V2 max from 30 to 50." Um, but but it V2 max from 30 to 50." Um, but but it V2 max from 30 to 50." Um, but but it can be done, uh, provided you're you're can be done, uh, provided you're you're can be done, uh, provided you're you're able to and willing to to train. able to and willing to to train. able to and willing to to train. >> So far, we've kind of talked about the >> So far, we've kind of talked about the >> So far, we've kind of talked about the benefits of lifespan as it relates to benefits of lifespan as it relates to benefits of lifespan as it relates to these metrics. What do we know about the these metrics. What do we know about the these metrics. What do we know about the benefits of health span? So, not only benefits of health span? So, not only benefits of health span? So, not only living longer, but also living better. living longer, but also living better. living longer, but also living better. >> Yeah, you've obviously heard me say >> Yeah, you've obviously heard me say >> Yeah, you've obviously heard me say this. Um, I think that exercise should this. Um, I think that exercise should this. Um, I think that exercise should still be viewed as the the, you know, still be viewed as the the, you know, still be viewed as the the, you know, the most, if not one of the most the most, if not one of the most the most, if not one of the most important things that we can do to important things that we can do to important things that we can do to modify our behavior, even if it played modify our behavior, even if it played modify our behavior, even if it played no role in lifespan. So, even if you no role in lifespan. So, even if you no role in lifespan. So, even if you told me that all the exercise that that told me that all the exercise that that told me that all the exercise that that I do um was going to shorten my life by I do um was going to shorten my life by I do um was going to shorten my life by a year um related to being sedentary, uh a year um related to being sedentary, uh a year um related to being sedentary, uh what would I do? And the answer is I what would I do? And the answer is I what would I do? And the answer is I would still do it because of the effects would still do it because of the effects would still do it because of the effects on health span. Now, of course, that's on health span. Now, of course, that's on health span. Now, of course, that's not that's a false choice. Um, it's also not that's a false choice. Um, it's also not that's a false choice. Um, it's also increasing lifespan, but but my point increasing lifespan, but but my point increasing lifespan, but but my point being is just the health span benefits being is just the health span benefits being is just the health span benefits alone are are important. Um, so, you alone are are important. Um, so, you alone are are important. Um, so, you know, I think there's lots of ways to know, I think there's lots of ways to know, I think there's lots of ways to talk about health span, but maybe we talk about health span, but maybe we talk about health span, but maybe we just sort of put it all together and just sort of put it all together and just sort of put it all together and talk about all the benefits of of muscle talk about all the benefits of of muscle talk about all the benefits of of muscle health. So, there are lots of ways I health. So, there are lots of ways I health. So, there are lots of ways I think that muscle impacts health span think that muscle impacts health span think that muscle impacts health span and lifespan. Maybe we just take a and lifespan. Maybe we just take a and lifespan. Maybe we just take a minute and look at each. So, let's start minute and look at each. So, let's start minute and look at each. So, let's start with metabolic health. So, we've with metabolic health. So, we've with metabolic health. So, we've discussed this on many previous discussed this on many previous discussed this on many previous podcasts, but and I alluded to it podcasts, but and I alluded to it podcasts, but and I alluded to it earlier in our discussion, but um muscle earlier in our discussion, but um muscle earlier in our discussion, but um muscle is the predominant sync for insulin is the predominant sync for insulin is the predominant sync for insulin mediated um and even non-inssulin mediated um and even non-inssulin mediated um and even non-inssulin mediated glucose uptake. So, the more mediated glucose uptake. So, the more mediated glucose uptake. So, the more skeletal muscle you have, the more skeletal muscle you have, the more skeletal muscle you have, the more easily you can buffer blood sugar. And I easily you can buffer blood sugar. And I easily you can buffer blood sugar. And I would hope that I don't need to spend would hope that I don't need to spend would hope that I don't need to spend much more time explaining why much more time explaining why much more time explaining why maintaining low blood sugar is an maintaining low blood sugar is an maintaining low blood sugar is an imperative part of reducing not just the imperative part of reducing not just the imperative part of reducing not just the risk of type 2 diabetes but more risk of type 2 diabetes but more risk of type 2 diabetes but more importantly I would say heart disease uh importantly I would say heart disease uh importantly I would say heart disease uh di um uh dementia and cancer. So di um uh dementia and cancer. So di um uh dementia and cancer. So anything that you have that aids in the anything that you have that aids in the anything that you have that aids in the shunting of glucose easily into muscle shunting of glucose easily into muscle shunting of glucose easily into muscle is going to uh improve that. And is going to uh improve that. And is going to uh improve that. And therefore we want muscle that has therefore we want muscle that has therefore we want muscle that has sufficient size. Say someone that can sufficient size. Say someone that can sufficient size. Say someone that can hold 3 to 500 g of glucose in storage. hold 3 to 500 g of glucose in storage. hold 3 to 500 g of glucose in storage. Um and also we want insulin sensitive Um and also we want insulin sensitive Um and also we want insulin sensitive muscles that allow the muscle to take muscles that allow the muscle to take muscles that allow the muscle to take that up with the least amount of insulin that up with the least amount of insulin that up with the least amount of insulin possible. possible. possible. Um we talk about inflammation. So muscle Um we talk about inflammation. So muscle Um we talk about inflammation. So muscle is uh an endocrine organ. This is not is uh an endocrine organ. This is not is uh an endocrine organ. This is not necessarily intuitive to people. We necessarily intuitive to people. We necessarily intuitive to people. We don't really think of it this way. Um don't really think of it this way. Um don't really think of it this way. Um but it is indeed an endocrine organ but it is indeed an endocrine organ but it is indeed an endocrine organ which means it secretes signaling which means it secretes signaling which means it secretes signaling molecules called myioines such as molecules called myioines such as molecules called myioines such as interlucan 6 which has an interlucan 6 which has an interlucan 6 which has an anti-inflammatory role. Um most anti-inflammatory role. Um most anti-inflammatory role. Um most [clears throat] of the interlucans we [clears throat] of the interlucans we [clears throat] of the interlucans we think of are actually pro-inflammatory think of are actually pro-inflammatory think of are actually pro-inflammatory but that's not the case with all of but that's not the case with all of but that's not the case with all of them. uh and so indeed irrin IL6 can them. uh and so indeed irrin IL6 can them. uh and so indeed irrin IL6 can actually reduce inflammation and improve actually reduce inflammation and improve actually reduce inflammation and improve metabolism. By the way, it's worth metabolism. By the way, it's worth metabolism. By the way, it's worth noting, Nick, um many people have looked noting, Nick, um many people have looked noting, Nick, um many people have looked at these uh interlucans and uh miaakines at these uh interlucans and uh miaakines at these uh interlucans and uh miaakines as ways to biologically as ways to biologically as ways to biologically mirror the effects of of of exercise mirror the effects of of of exercise mirror the effects of of of exercise without actually exercising. Uh so for without actually exercising. Uh so for without actually exercising. Uh so for what it's worth uh I don't know 14 years what it's worth uh I don't know 14 years what it's worth uh I don't know 14 years ago or so I remember irisin was all the ago or so I remember irisin was all the ago or so I remember irisin was all the rage when it was discovered as a rage when it was discovered as a rage when it was discovered as a miaakine and of course people miaakine and of course people miaakine and of course people immediately said listen we just need to immediately said listen we just need to immediately said listen we just need to figure out a way to inject people with figure out a way to inject people with figure out a way to inject people with iris and we will uh we will produce the iris and we will uh we will produce the iris and we will uh we will produce the effects of exercise without doing it and effects of exercise without doing it and effects of exercise without doing it and of course these things have never panned of course these things have never panned of course these things have never panned out now I'm not going to give up on this out now I'm not going to give up on this out now I'm not going to give up on this approach I uh I know one of our previous approach I uh I know one of our previous approach I uh I know one of our previous podcast guests uh Mike Israel really was podcast guests uh Mike Israel really was podcast guests uh Mike Israel really was convinced that within in a decade, no convinced that within in a decade, no convinced that within in a decade, no one will need to exercise. We'll just one will need to exercise. We'll just one will need to exercise. We'll just inject people with miaakines. Um, I'm inject people with miaakines. Um, I'm inject people with miaakines. Um, I'm not nearly as bullish as he is on that, not nearly as bullish as he is on that, not nearly as bullish as he is on that, nor do I think I would even find that nor do I think I would even find that nor do I think I would even find that interesting. I actually enjoy the act of interesting. I actually enjoy the act of interesting. I actually enjoy the act of exercise. Um, but at least his view was, exercise. Um, but at least his view was, exercise. Um, but at least his view was, look, we we will be able to produce all look, we we will be able to produce all look, we we will be able to produce all of the metabolic benefits of of exercise of the metabolic benefits of of exercise of the metabolic benefits of of exercise by doing this. The fact that we haven't, by doing this. The fact that we haven't, by doing this. The fact that we haven't, by the way, suggests to me the vastness by the way, suggests to me the vastness by the way, suggests to me the vastness of what exercise does, right? um you of what exercise does, right? um you of what exercise does, right? um you know, it's not going to come down to two know, it's not going to come down to two know, it's not going to come down to two or three miaakines. It's going to be an or three miaakines. It's going to be an or three miaakines. It's going to be an entire cascade of things that probably entire cascade of things that probably entire cascade of things that probably affects why this is happening. Um again, affects why this is happening. Um again, affects why this is happening. Um again, in the show notes, we're just going to in the show notes, we're just going to in the show notes, we're just going to link to all of the places where these link to all of the places where these link to all of the places where these things have been discussed in great things have been discussed in great things have been discussed in great detail. Um the other thing to consider detail. Um the other thing to consider detail. Um the other thing to consider which again I think is something we which again I think is something we which again I think is something we fortunately don't have to think of um fortunately don't have to think of um fortunately don't have to think of um under normal circumstances but it really under normal circumstances but it really under normal circumstances but it really does matter when a person gets sick is does matter when a person gets sick is does matter when a person gets sick is that muscle is indeed the reservoir for that muscle is indeed the reservoir for that muscle is indeed the reservoir for protein. Um so we don't store protein protein. Um so we don't store protein protein. Um so we don't store protein the way we store glucose and the way we the way we store glucose and the way we the way we store glucose and the way we store fat. Right? So I think everybody's store fat. Right? So I think everybody's store fat. Right? So I think everybody's familiar with the idea that we store familiar with the idea that we store familiar with the idea that we store infinite amounts of fat. Right? as as infinite amounts of fat. Right? as as infinite amounts of fat. Right? as as much as our fat cells will get fat, we much as our fat cells will get fat, we much as our fat cells will get fat, we can store fat and that can provide us can store fat and that can provide us can store fat and that can provide us with months and months of energy. Uh we with months and months of energy. Uh we with months and months of energy. Uh we don't store that much carbohydrate, so don't store that much carbohydrate, so don't store that much carbohydrate, so we're kind of we're kind of stuck there we're kind of we're kind of stuck there we're kind of we're kind of stuck there with our glycogen supplies. Of course, with our glycogen supplies. Of course, with our glycogen supplies. Of course, anything excess will store as fat. Um anything excess will store as fat. Um anything excess will store as fat. Um and we don't store protein in the and we don't store protein in the and we don't store protein in the traditional sense outside of the muscle traditional sense outside of the muscle traditional sense outside of the muscle itself. And so what that means is the itself. And so what that means is the itself. And so what that means is the more muscle you have, the less muscle uh more muscle you have, the less muscle uh more muscle you have, the less muscle uh you will end up losing in a period of you will end up losing in a period of you will end up losing in a period of illness or stress like surgery, illness or stress like surgery, illness or stress like surgery, infection, hospitalization, burns, infection, hospitalization, burns, infection, hospitalization, burns, things of that nature. Um so again, I things of that nature. Um so again, I things of that nature. Um so again, I think this is a big part of why people think this is a big part of why people think this is a big part of why people with more muscle mass consistently have with more muscle mass consistently have with more muscle mass consistently have lower mortality, right? They're more lower mortality, right? They're more lower mortality, right? They're more likely to survive hospitalizations, likely to survive hospitalizations, likely to survive hospitalizations, infections, car accidents, you name it. infections, car accidents, you name it. infections, car accidents, you name it. Put stress on the body, more muscle is Put stress on the body, more muscle is Put stress on the body, more muscle is better. Um, then we kind of just get better. Um, then we kind of just get better. Um, then we kind of just get into the obvious stuff, which I don't into the obvious stuff, which I don't into the obvious stuff, which I don't think I need to spend much time on, think I need to spend much time on, think I need to spend much time on, which is movement and and and activity which is movement and and and activity which is movement and and and activity in life. Um, you know, the the the more in life. Um, you know, the the the more in life. Um, you know, the the the more you move, the more you're alive, the you move, the more you're alive, the you move, the more you're alive, the less you move, the less you're alive. I less you move, the less you're alive. I less you move, the less you're alive. I I don't think too many people are going I don't think too many people are going I don't think too many people are going to disagree with that. And um I don't to disagree with that. And um I don't to disagree with that. And um I don't think we need to spend much more time think we need to spend much more time think we need to spend much more time talking about the centinary decathlon as talking about the centinary decathlon as talking about the centinary decathlon as the mental model I think about for how the mental model I think about for how the mental model I think about for how to prepare for the marginal decade. But to prepare for the marginal decade. But to prepare for the marginal decade. But there's really no scenario under which there's really no scenario under which there's really no scenario under which you're going to have an optimal marginal you're going to have an optimal marginal you're going to have an optimal marginal decade um if you are not physically able decade um if you are not physically able decade um if you are not physically able to move and do as much of what your to move and do as much of what your to move and do as much of what your heart desires. Um we talk a lot about heart desires. Um we talk a lot about heart desires. Um we talk a lot about falls. Um I actually just sent the team falls. Um I actually just sent the team falls. Um I actually just sent the team an email earlier today about um uh a an email earlier today about um uh a an email earlier today about um uh a study that I was looking at that very study that I was looking at that very study that I was looking at that very nicely summarized just the significance nicely summarized just the significance nicely summarized just the significance of the fall literature. again um 300,000 of the fall literature. again um 300,000 of the fall literature. again um 300,000 hospitalizations a year in the United hospitalizations a year in the United hospitalizations a year in the United States alone. Apologies for those not in States alone. Apologies for those not in States alone. Apologies for those not in the US listening. I don't have the the US listening. I don't have the the US listening. I don't have the stats, but you can extend them by proxy. stats, but you can extend them by proxy. stats, but you can extend them by proxy. Um 10 to 30% one-year mortality for Um 10 to 30% one-year mortality for Um 10 to 30% one-year mortality for those above 60. And very few of these those above 60. And very few of these those above 60. And very few of these individuals if they suffer a femur individuals if they suffer a femur individuals if they suffer a femur fracture are going to return to their fracture are going to return to their fracture are going to return to their state of previous health and mobility. state of previous health and mobility. state of previous health and mobility. So again, I I think all of these things So again, I I think all of these things So again, I I think all of these things taken together um should really remind taken together um should really remind taken together um should really remind people of why this matters. If if you people of why this matters. If if you people of why this matters. If if you just want to look at how mortality uh is just want to look at how mortality uh is just want to look at how mortality uh is driven in falls, uh I'm going to rattle driven in falls, uh I'm going to rattle driven in falls, uh I'm going to rattle off by decade what the death rate per off by decade what the death rate per off by decade what the death rate per 100,000 is um from a fall. So if you're 100,000 is um from a fall. So if you're 100,000 is um from a fall. So if you're 25 to 35, it's 1.1 deaths per 100,000. 25 to 35, it's 1.1 deaths per 100,000. 25 to 35, it's 1.1 deaths per 100,000. If you're 35 to 45, it's 1.7 deaths per If you're 35 to 45, it's 1.7 deaths per If you're 35 to 45, it's 1.7 deaths per 100,000. 45 to 55, 3.2 deaths. 55 to 65, 100,000. 45 to 55, 3.2 deaths. 55 to 65, 100,000. 45 to 55, 3.2 deaths. 55 to 65, 5.7 deaths. 65 to 75, 13.2 deaths. 75 to 5.7 deaths. 65 to 75, 13.2 deaths. 75 to 5.7 deaths. 65 to 75, 13.2 deaths. 75 to 85, 50 deaths. And by the time you reach 85, 50 deaths. And by the time you reach 85, 50 deaths. And by the time you reach 85 and up, it's nearly 200 deaths. So, 85 and up, it's nearly 200 deaths. So, 85 and up, it's nearly 200 deaths. So, um, anybody plotting that will realize um, anybody plotting that will realize um, anybody plotting that will realize it is the true definition of an it is the true definition of an it is the true definition of an exponential growth curve. Double exponential growth curve. Double exponential growth curve. Double clicking on that, before we move to kind clicking on that, before we move to kind clicking on that, before we move to kind of how does someone start to increase of how does someone start to increase of how does someone start to increase our muscle mass and strength, can we our muscle mass and strength, can we our muscle mass and strength, can we just talk a little bit more about what just talk a little bit more about what just talk a little bit more about what we know about how we gain and lose we know about how we gain and lose we know about how we gain and lose muscle as we age and why muscle is so muscle as we age and why muscle is so muscle as we age and why muscle is so important when we're older and why that important when we're older and why that important when we're older and why that means that you can't wait until you're means that you can't wait until you're means that you can't wait until you're at a certain age to start caring about at a certain age to start caring about at a certain age to start caring about it. So muscle strength peaks in the 30s it. So muscle strength peaks in the 30s it. So muscle strength peaks in the 30s typically, maybe even the early 40s. typically, maybe even the early 40s. typically, maybe even the early 40s. Again, notice I'm not talking about Again, notice I'm not talking about Again, notice I'm not talking about power. Power peaks sooner than that. Um, power. Power peaks sooner than that. Um, power. Power peaks sooner than that. Um, so that incorporation of speed. Um, but so that incorporation of speed. Um, but so that incorporation of speed. Um, but strength is going to peak in the uh strength is going to peak in the uh strength is going to peak in the uh fourth or early part of the fifth fourth or early part of the fifth fourth or early part of the fifth decade, but it will decline um with age decade, but it will decline um with age decade, but it will decline um with age at a rate of about 1 to 2% per year. at a rate of about 1 to 2% per year. at a rate of about 1 to 2% per year. um this rate continues largely um this rate continues largely um this rate continues largely uninterrupted unless there is a uninterrupted unless there is a uninterrupted unless there is a significant change to health status. Um significant change to health status. Um significant change to health status. Um and uh but once you hit about the age of and uh but once you hit about the age of and uh but once you hit about the age of 70 this acceleration continues. Um and 70 this acceleration continues. Um and 70 this acceleration continues. Um and one of our previous guests, Luke Vanlon, one of our previous guests, Luke Vanlon, one of our previous guests, Luke Vanlon, really made a point that I thought was really made a point that I thought was really made a point that I thought was so interesting, which is when you look so interesting, which is when you look so interesting, which is when you look at these curves that represent a decline at these curves that represent a decline at these curves that represent a decline in muscle mass, a decline in strength, in muscle mass, a decline in strength, in muscle mass, a decline in strength, and a a decline in activity level, they and a a decline in activity level, they and a a decline in activity level, they look physiologic. look physiologic. look physiologic. Um, which means they look beautiful and Um, which means they look beautiful and Um, which means they look beautiful and smooth. But he said that's just because smooth. But he said that's just because smooth. But he said that's just because you're looking at population-based you're looking at population-based you're looking at population-based averages. When you look at this at the averages. When you look at this at the averages. When you look at this at the individual level, uh, for most people individual level, uh, for most people individual level, uh, for most people it's relatively slow decline punctuated it's relatively slow decline punctuated it's relatively slow decline punctuated by rapid uh, periods of decline with by rapid uh, periods of decline with by rapid uh, periods of decline with inactivity. So the key here is avoiding inactivity. So the key here is avoiding inactivity. So the key here is avoiding inactivity, avoiding time without inactivity, avoiding time without inactivity, avoiding time without training. Um, one of the greatest things training. Um, one of the greatest things training. Um, one of the greatest things that leads to that inactivity is injury. that leads to that inactivity is injury. that leads to that inactivity is injury. So that's why um as far as I'm concerned So that's why um as far as I'm concerned So that's why um as far as I'm concerned once you reach my age uh in your 50s, once you reach my age uh in your 50s, once you reach my age uh in your 50s, rule number one of training is don't get rule number one of training is don't get rule number one of training is don't get injured, right? Do not miss workouts injured, right? Do not miss workouts injured, right? Do not miss workouts because you are injured. Um and and and because you are injured. Um and and and because you are injured. Um and and and I think that just only increases as you I think that just only increases as you I think that just only increases as you age. And that and that's why I do worry age. And that and that's why I do worry age. And that and that's why I do worry when I see, you know, someone who's in when I see, you know, someone who's in when I see, you know, someone who's in their 60s and 70s having a significant their 60s and 70s having a significant their 60s and 70s having a significant injury which is going to take them out injury which is going to take them out injury which is going to take them out of training for months at a time. Um, so of training for months at a time. Um, so of training for months at a time. Um, so again, we'll we'll kind of link to much again, we'll we'll kind of link to much again, we'll we'll kind of link to much of the details around here. I don't of the details around here. I don't of the details around here. I don't really want to just rattle off all the really want to just rattle off all the really want to just rattle off all the numbers. It gets a little overwhelming. numbers. It gets a little overwhelming. numbers. It gets a little overwhelming. Um, but but we'll we'll kind of go to Um, but but we'll we'll kind of go to Um, but but we'll we'll kind of go to some of the more granular data of of of some of the more granular data of of of some of the more granular data of of of what this looks like. I think you know what this looks like. I think you know what this looks like. I think you know we can summarize it by pulling up kind we can summarize it by pulling up kind we can summarize it by pulling up kind of a schematic right so there's a of a schematic right so there's a of a schematic right so there's a schematic here that talks about how look schematic here that talks about how look schematic here that talks about how look age on the x- axis age on the x- axis age on the x- axis um relative function muscle mass put um relative function muscle mass put um relative function muscle mass put every whatever proxy you want on the y- every whatever proxy you want on the y- every whatever proxy you want on the y- axis um it's going to peak at about the axis um it's going to peak at about the axis um it's going to peak at about the age of 30 and you you'll see in this age of 30 and you you'll see in this age of 30 and you you'll see in this figure basically three levels of decline figure basically three levels of decline figure basically three levels of decline and the levels of decline um are going and the levels of decline um are going and the levels of decline um are going to be dependent on the level of to be dependent on the level of to be dependent on the level of activity. So a very active individual activity. So a very active individual activity. So a very active individual lower level of decline still declining. lower level of decline still declining. lower level of decline still declining. A population average quicker level of A population average quicker level of A population average quicker level of decline and a sedentary individual much decline and a sedentary individual much decline and a sedentary individual much quicker level of decline. And where does quicker level of decline. And where does quicker level of decline. And where does it become relevant? It probably becomes it become relevant? It probably becomes it become relevant? It probably becomes relevant in the 70s. Uh in the eighth relevant in the 70s. Uh in the eighth relevant in the 70s. Uh in the eighth decade of life um is where you really decade of life um is where you really decade of life um is where you really start to see the difference. And the start to see the difference. And the start to see the difference. And the problem is you don't want to be on that problem is you don't want to be on that problem is you don't want to be on that red curve in this figure that I'm red curve in this figure that I'm red curve in this figure that I'm showing. Um showing. Um showing. Um and and and figure it out when all of a and and and figure it out when all of a and and and figure it out when all of a sudden everything is taken away from sudden everything is taken away from sudden everything is taken away from you. Right. If you're on the red curve you. Right. If you're on the red curve you. Right. If you're on the red curve today, you know, get to that blue get to today, you know, get to that blue get to today, you know, get to that blue get to that green curve uh by increasing that green curve uh by increasing that green curve uh by increasing activity. activity. activity. >> Yeah. And on that graph, I think it's >> Yeah. And on that graph, I think it's >> Yeah. And on that graph, I think it's interesting because there's almost two interesting because there's almost two interesting because there's almost two components too, which is if you've components too, which is if you've components too, which is if you've already passed your peak, you really already passed your peak, you really already passed your peak, you really want to make sure you decline at the want to make sure you decline at the want to make sure you decline at the slowest rate possible. But if you're of slowest rate possible. But if you're of slowest rate possible. But if you're of the age and listening or watching this the age and listening or watching this the age and listening or watching this and you haven't passed your peak yet, and you haven't passed your peak yet, and you haven't passed your peak yet, you really want to make sure your peak you really want to make sure your peak you really want to make sure your peak is as high as you can go because that's is as high as you can go because that's is as high as you can go because that's the other aspect that affects your the other aspect that affects your the other aspect that affects your decline. Correct. decline. Correct. decline. Correct. >> Yeah, that's a great point. It's very >> Yeah, that's a great point. It's very >> Yeah, that's a great point. It's very true with something like V2 max, very true with something like V2 max, very true with something like V2 max, very true with something like bone density. true with something like bone density. true with something like bone density. Um, I'm very grateful for those Um, I'm very grateful for those Um, I'm very grateful for those formative years of my life, age probably formative years of my life, age probably formative years of my life, age probably 13 to 18, 19, when I was training 13 to 18, 19, when I was training 13 to 18, 19, when I was training absurdly hard. On the one hand, the absurdly hard. On the one hand, the absurdly hard. On the one hand, the drawback of that, Nick, is I have awful drawback of that, Nick, is I have awful drawback of that, Nick, is I have awful scars to show for some of the stupid scars to show for some of the stupid scars to show for some of the stupid injuries, uh, especially to my back. On injuries, uh, especially to my back. On injuries, uh, especially to my back. On the positive side, I like knowing that the positive side, I like knowing that the positive side, I like knowing that my V2 max was, you know, in the 70s or my V2 max was, you know, in the 70s or my V2 max was, you know, in the 70s or maybe even at the I think at one point maybe even at the I think at one point maybe even at the I think at one point even the, you know, low 80s at that even the, you know, low 80s at that even the, you know, low 80s at that point. And so even though I'm much lower point. And so even though I'm much lower point. And so even though I'm much lower now, um, I'm still relatively high now, um, I'm still relatively high now, um, I'm still relatively high because I started from such a high base. because I started from such a high base. because I started from such a high base. Um, and so, yeah, you're right. I don't Um, and so, yeah, you're right. I don't Um, and so, yeah, you're right. I don't think our audience particularly skews on think our audience particularly skews on think our audience particularly skews on the on the younger side of 30, but for the on the younger side of 30, but for the on the younger side of 30, but for those listening or for those who have those listening or for those who have those listening or for those who have kids, you want to really encourage your kids, you want to really encourage your kids, you want to really encourage your your kids or yourself to reach your your kids or yourself to reach your your kids or yourself to reach your maximum genetic potential because it's maximum genetic potential because it's maximum genetic potential because it's going to get that glider a lot higher going to get that glider a lot higher going to get that glider a lot higher and give you uh even more room to stay and give you uh even more room to stay and give you uh even more room to stay on that green curve as you age. And of on that green curve as you age. And of on that green curve as you age. And of course, you know, if you can do it course, you know, if you can do it course, you know, if you can do it without injuring yourself like like I without injuring yourself like like I without injuring yourself like like I did as an idiot, then you've really won did as an idiot, then you've really won did as an idiot, then you've really won the game because it it wasn't necessary the game because it it wasn't necessary the game because it it wasn't necessary for me to do the stuff I did to injure for me to do the stuff I did to injure for me to do the stuff I did to injure myself. It was just due to sheer myself. It was just due to sheer myself. It was just due to sheer ignorance. ignorance. ignorance. >> That's another topic we could talk about >> That's another topic we could talk about >> That's another topic we could talk about with the seven-year-olds at the round with the seven-year-olds at the round with the seven-year-olds at the round table. So, we can park park stupid ideas table. So, we can park park stupid ideas table. So, we can park park stupid ideas that you do when you're young. Um, but that you do when you're young. Um, but that you do when you're young. Um, but moving on to kind of now the crux of moving on to kind of now the crux of moving on to kind of now the crux of this and what most people care about is this and what most people care about is this and what most people care about is getting into the nitty-gritty around how getting into the nitty-gritty around how getting into the nitty-gritty around how to increase muscle mass and strength. So to increase muscle mass and strength. So to increase muscle mass and strength. So I think starting with just a general I think starting with just a general I think starting with just a general question of what do you think is the question of what do you think is the question of what do you think is the most effective approach when you look at most effective approach when you look at most effective approach when you look at resistance training for someone to put resistance training for someone to put resistance training for someone to put on muscle size, strength, mass? So I on muscle size, strength, mass? So I on muscle size, strength, mass? So I think one has to align around what it is think one has to align around what it is think one has to align around what it is that they're trying to optimize. So that they're trying to optimize. So that they're trying to optimize. So optimizing for strength and optimizing optimizing for strength and optimizing optimizing for strength and optimizing for hypertrophy will require different for hypertrophy will require different for hypertrophy will require different types of training. So to take two types of training. So to take two types of training. So to take two extremes of this, if you're talking to extremes of this, if you're talking to extremes of this, if you're talking to Lane Norton and he's preparing for a Lane Norton and he's preparing for a Lane Norton and he's preparing for a powerlifting competition, which even powerlifting competition, which even powerlifting competition, which even though the the word power is associated though the the word power is associated though the the word power is associated with it, is the purest demonstration of with it, is the purest demonstration of with it, is the purest demonstration of strength. His training looks nothing strength. His training looks nothing strength. His training looks nothing nothing like Mike Israel's training as a nothing like Mike Israel's training as a nothing like Mike Israel's training as a bodybuilder where he is training bodybuilder where he is training bodybuilder where he is training maximally for hypertrophy. Now, I say maximally for hypertrophy. Now, I say maximally for hypertrophy. Now, I say nothing like they're both in the gym. nothing like they're both in the gym. nothing like they're both in the gym. They are both doing, you know, lifting a They are both doing, you know, lifting a They are both doing, you know, lifting a lot of weight. Um, but a closer lot of weight. Um, but a closer lot of weight. Um, but a closer examination will reveal pretty quickly examination will reveal pretty quickly examination will reveal pretty quickly that they're doing very different that they're doing very different that they're doing very different things. Now, most of us are not doing things. Now, most of us are not doing things. Now, most of us are not doing either of these things. Most of us are either of these things. Most of us are either of these things. Most of us are not um are going to be kind of in the not um are going to be kind of in the not um are going to be kind of in the middle, right? We're training for middle, right? We're training for middle, right? We're training for strength, but not maximum strength. Um, strength, but not maximum strength. Um, strength, but not maximum strength. Um, I have not deliberately done a one rep I have not deliberately done a one rep I have not deliberately done a one rep max in 15 years, and I'm very confident max in 15 years, and I'm very confident max in 15 years, and I'm very confident saying I will never deliberately do saying I will never deliberately do saying I will never deliberately do another one rep max in my life. Meaning, another one rep max in my life. Meaning, another one rep max in my life. Meaning, I'm never going to be training for I'm never going to be training for I'm never going to be training for maximum strength. Um, at the other maximum strength. Um, at the other maximum strength. Um, at the other [clears throat] end of that spectrum, [clears throat] end of that spectrum, [clears throat] end of that spectrum, strength is still very important to me. strength is still very important to me. strength is still very important to me. And that means I do need to be in a And that means I do need to be in a And that means I do need to be in a slightly lower rep range uh than just, slightly lower rep range uh than just, slightly lower rep range uh than just, you know, at the other end of the you know, at the other end of the you know, at the other end of the spectrum where I'd be training pure spectrum where I'd be training pure spectrum where I'd be training pure muscular endurance. And I'm still doing muscular endurance. And I'm still doing muscular endurance. And I'm still doing things that are strength-based things that are strength-based things that are strength-based principles uh that that I wouldn't principles uh that that I wouldn't principles uh that that I wouldn't necessarily be doing if I were purely necessarily be doing if I were purely necessarily be doing if I were purely optimized around hypertrophy. Okay, optimized around hypertrophy. Okay, optimized around hypertrophy. Okay, we're going to talk about this in much we're going to talk about this in much we're going to talk about this in much more detail, but I just throw that out more detail, but I just throw that out more detail, but I just throw that out there a couple of extremes. So the there a couple of extremes. So the there a couple of extremes. So the principle underlying resistance training principle underlying resistance training principle underlying resistance training regardless of whether we're talking regardless of whether we're talking regardless of whether we're talking about hypertrophy uh or strength is one about hypertrophy uh or strength is one about hypertrophy uh or strength is one of progressive overload. And the idea of progressive overload. And the idea of progressive overload. And the idea here is that you constantly challenge here is that you constantly challenge here is that you constantly challenge the muscle with increasing demands to the muscle with increasing demands to the muscle with increasing demands to force adaptation. Now how this works has force adaptation. Now how this works has force adaptation. Now how this works has been discussed and I I want to say I been discussed and I I want to say I been discussed and I I want to say I think probably the podcast with Andy think probably the podcast with Andy think probably the podcast with Andy Galpin might be the one where we went Galpin might be the one where we went Galpin might be the one where we went into most detail here. Um, so obviously into most detail here. Um, so obviously into most detail here. Um, so obviously we're gonna we're going to link to all we're gonna we're going to link to all we're gonna we're going to link to all of that, but the the reason all of this of that, but the the reason all of this of that, but the the reason all of this happens is is basically a function of happens is is basically a function of happens is is basically a function of muscle fiber recruitment. So people muscle fiber recruitment. So people muscle fiber recruitment. So people might remember from those episodes that might remember from those episodes that might remember from those episodes that we have type one and type two fibers. we have type one and type two fibers. we have type one and type two fibers. Uh, the fiber type refers to um many Uh, the fiber type refers to um many Uh, the fiber type refers to um many differences in these muscles. It it differences in these muscles. It it differences in these muscles. It it refers to uh the force with which they refers to uh the force with which they refers to uh the force with which they can contract. It refers to their can contract. It refers to their can contract. It refers to their metabolism uh whether they uh are more metabolism uh whether they uh are more metabolism uh whether they uh are more glycolytic or oxidative. uh but glycolytic or oxidative. uh but glycolytic or oxidative. uh but basically we want to increase load and basically we want to increase load and basically we want to increase load and volume uh over time to recruit higher volume uh over time to recruit higher volume uh over time to recruit higher threshold motor units. Um so another threshold motor units. Um so another threshold motor units. Um so another important principle here is muscle important principle here is muscle important principle here is muscle protein synthesis. So we we we have to protein synthesis. So we we we have to protein synthesis. So we we we have to be able to provide the substrate for be able to provide the substrate for be able to provide the substrate for these uh muscle fibers to repair and these uh muscle fibers to repair and these uh muscle fibers to repair and grow. Um and then of course you have to grow. Um and then of course you have to grow. Um and then of course you have to have neurologic adaptation. So, um this have neurologic adaptation. So, um this have neurologic adaptation. So, um this is something that has taken me a while is something that has taken me a while is something that has taken me a while to sort of explain to my daughter who to sort of explain to my daughter who to sort of explain to my daughter who really really has taken a huge enjoyment really really has taken a huge enjoyment really really has taken a huge enjoyment for uh uh you know going into the gym for uh uh you know going into the gym for uh uh you know going into the gym and you know she's at that age where and you know she's at that age where and you know she's at that age where she's you know she's running track and she's you know she's running track and she's you know she's running track and wants to work out all the time and I wants to work out all the time and I wants to work out all the time and I kind of have to explain to her that she kind of have to explain to her that she kind of have to explain to her that she needs to recover a little bit. Um her needs to recover a little bit. Um her needs to recover a little bit. Um her neurologic system is actually fatiguing neurologic system is actually fatiguing neurologic system is actually fatiguing when she keeps trying to do all these when she keeps trying to do all these when she keeps trying to do all these things at all the times. But we have to things at all the times. But we have to things at all the times. But we have to basically be able to train the motor basically be able to train the motor basically be able to train the motor units to to fire correctly, to sync units to to fire correctly, to sync units to to fire correctly, to sync correctly, how to control them. Um, and correctly, how to control them. Um, and correctly, how to control them. Um, and again, all of these things factor in. again, all of these things factor in. again, all of these things factor in. So, so broadly speaking, I just want So, so broadly speaking, I just want So, so broadly speaking, I just want people to understand you have this people to understand you have this people to understand you have this overall idea of uh progressive overload overall idea of uh progressive overload overall idea of uh progressive overload and you have to be able to tap into and you have to be able to tap into and you have to be able to tap into different motor units. um you have to be different motor units. um you have to be different motor units. um you have to be able to provide um amino acids for able to provide um amino acids for able to provide um amino acids for muscle protein synthesis and you need muscle protein synthesis and you need muscle protein synthesis and you need time for neurologic adaptation. time for neurologic adaptation. time for neurologic adaptation. >> And let's talk a little bit more about >> And let's talk a little bit more about >> And let's talk a little bit more about how would someone implement progressive how would someone implement progressive how would someone implement progressive overload. I think it's kind of a term overload. I think it's kind of a term overload. I think it's kind of a term that people may have heard, but I think that people may have heard, but I think that people may have heard, but I think walking people through how they would walking people through how they would walking people through how they would actually go about that in the gym would actually go about that in the gym would actually go about that in the gym would be helpful. be helpful. be helpful. >> Yeah, there are there are many ways to >> Yeah, there are there are many ways to >> Yeah, there are there are many ways to do this. Um so one of them is maybe the do this. Um so one of them is maybe the do this. Um so one of them is maybe the most obvious way that people would most obvious way that people would most obvious way that people would naturally think of which is you can naturally think of which is you can naturally think of which is you can increase the load or the weight. Um but increase the load or the weight. Um but increase the load or the weight. Um but you can also do it by increasing the you can also do it by increasing the you can also do it by increasing the reps um that you do in a given set or reps um that you do in a given set or reps um that you do in a given set or the number of sets or the time under the number of sets or the time under the number of sets or the time under tension which is one of my personal tension which is one of my personal tension which is one of my personal favorites or decrease the time between favorites or decrease the time between favorites or decrease the time between sets. Um, so again, let's talk about sets. Um, so again, let's talk about sets. Um, so again, let's talk about each and within each, I would encourage each and within each, I would encourage each and within each, I would encourage everyone to think about which ones um everyone to think about which ones um everyone to think about which ones um might be safer, uh, which ones might might be safer, uh, which ones might might be safer, uh, which ones might make more sense if you're lifting alone make more sense if you're lifting alone make more sense if you're lifting alone versus lifting with others, which one versus lifting with others, which one versus lifting with others, which one might make sense under certain types of might make sense under certain types of might make sense under certain types of exercises versus others. I'm going to exercises versus others. I'm going to exercises versus others. I'm going to use myself as an example here, uh, but I use myself as an example here, uh, but I use myself as an example here, uh, but I would like people to sort of think about would like people to sort of think about would like people to sort of think about this for themselves. Okay, so increasing this for themselves. Okay, so increasing this for themselves. Okay, so increasing weights directly. It's obvious. I don't weights directly. It's obvious. I don't weights directly. It's obvious. I don't need to say it anymore about this. Um need to say it anymore about this. Um need to say it anymore about this. Um [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] but I will call out places where this but I will call out places where this but I will call out places where this might not make sense. Right? So um for might not make sense. Right? So um for might not make sense. Right? So um for me I uh I just know that there are me I uh I just know that there are me I uh I just know that there are certain parts of my body that I don't certain parts of my body that I don't certain parts of my body that I don't want to add more and more weight to. So want to add more and more weight to. So want to add more and more weight to. So I'm not going to add weight. Where I'm not going to add weight. Where I'm not going to add weight. Where where's an area where I feel very where's an area where I feel very where's an area where I feel very comfortable just adding weight because comfortable just adding weight because comfortable just adding weight because the risk of increased loading doesn't the risk of increased loading doesn't the risk of increased loading doesn't seem to matter. Doing a bicep curl. seem to matter. Doing a bicep curl. seem to matter. Doing a bicep curl. Right. great way for me to to increase Right. great way for me to to increase Right. great way for me to to increase um uh o to increase overload. Uh would I um uh o to increase overload. Uh would I um uh o to increase overload. Uh would I do this on do this on do this on um you know something that has some um you know something that has some um you know something that has some degree of axially loading? Not anymore. degree of axially loading? Not anymore. degree of axially loading? Not anymore. Uh I would in the past I won't today. Uh I would in the past I won't today. Uh I would in the past I won't today. Okay. Increasing reps. This is great. Uh Okay. Increasing reps. This is great. Uh Okay. Increasing reps. This is great. Uh but again we want to go back to the but again we want to go back to the but again we want to go back to the principle here. If you are exceeding principle here. If you are exceeding principle here. If you are exceeding reps, it might imply that you weren't reps, it might imply that you weren't reps, it might imply that you weren't doing enough in the first place at a doing enough in the first place at a doing enough in the first place at a given weight. So remember, we're always given weight. So remember, we're always given weight. So remember, we're always kind of trying to target um one to two kind of trying to target um one to two kind of trying to target um one to two riir. So I guess we could say here if riir. So I guess we could say here if riir. So I guess we could say here if you're in the two rep in reserve and um you're in the two rep in reserve and um you're in the two rep in reserve and um you want to move to 0 to one without you want to move to 0 to one without you want to move to 0 to one without increasing the weight, that would be a increasing the weight, that would be a increasing the weight, that would be a manner of progressive overload. But the manner of progressive overload. But the manner of progressive overload. But the truth of the matter is here, once you truth of the matter is here, once you truth of the matter is here, once you start exceeding 12 to 15 reps, you are start exceeding 12 to 15 reps, you are start exceeding 12 to 15 reps, you are shifting more stimulus towards muscular shifting more stimulus towards muscular shifting more stimulus towards muscular endurance. That's not a bad thing at endurance. That's not a bad thing at endurance. That's not a bad thing at all. You just have to be aware of what all. You just have to be aware of what all. You just have to be aware of what your goals are. Um, extra sets and your goals are. Um, extra sets and your goals are. Um, extra sets and volume to me is a great way to increase volume to me is a great way to increase volume to me is a great way to increase overload um without necessarily overload um without necessarily overload um without necessarily increasing weight. Again, another part increasing weight. Again, another part increasing weight. Again, another part of that is decreasing time between sets of that is decreasing time between sets of that is decreasing time between sets or super setting. I also enjoy that a or super setting. I also enjoy that a or super setting. I also enjoy that a lot. Again, as I said a second ago, one lot. Again, as I said a second ago, one lot. Again, as I said a second ago, one of my favorite ways to um increase uh of my favorite ways to um increase uh of my favorite ways to um increase uh the uh the overload or to progressively the uh the overload or to progressively the uh the overload or to progressively overload is time under tension. So my overload is time under tension. So my overload is time under tension. So my shoulders don't love bench press shoulders don't love bench press shoulders don't love bench press anymore. Um so one of the things I anymore. Um so one of the things I anymore. Um so one of the things I really enjoy doing is very slow sets really enjoy doing is very slow sets really enjoy doing is very slow sets because I can use much less weight and I because I can use much less weight and I because I can use much less weight and I have a little bit of arthritis in my AC have a little bit of arthritis in my AC have a little bit of arthritis in my AC joint on the right side. All the muscles joint on the right side. All the muscles joint on the right side. All the muscles are fine, but I just don't want to are fine, but I just don't want to are fine, but I just don't want to aggravate that AC joint. So, a I'm using aggravate that AC joint. So, a I'm using aggravate that AC joint. So, a I'm using dumbbells because I can put them in a dumbbells because I can put them in a dumbbells because I can put them in a position that's a little easier on the position that's a little easier on the position that's a little easier on the shoulder, but I can also I don't have to shoulder, but I can also I don't have to shoulder, but I can also I don't have to use super heavy dumbbells. I mean, if I use super heavy dumbbells. I mean, if I use super heavy dumbbells. I mean, if I told people how much I bench press, told people how much I bench press, told people how much I bench press, they'd be like, "That guy's a chicken they'd be like, "That guy's a chicken they'd be like, "That guy's a chicken chest." Um, but I'm, you know, if I'm chest." Um, but I'm, you know, if I'm chest." Um, but I'm, you know, if I'm bringing it down slowly, if I'm doing bringing it down slowly, if I'm doing bringing it down slowly, if I'm doing pauses at the bottom, if I'm increasing pauses at the bottom, if I'm increasing pauses at the bottom, if I'm increasing time under tension, I'm still getting time under tension, I'm still getting time under tension, I'm still getting um, uh, the stimulus for for for growth um, uh, the stimulus for for for growth um, uh, the stimulus for for for growth and strength uh, without having to rely and strength uh, without having to rely and strength uh, without having to rely on enormous amounts of weight. So again, on enormous amounts of weight. So again, on enormous amounts of weight. So again, I think it's just helpful for people to I think it's just helpful for people to I think it's just helpful for people to think about these things in the context think about these things in the context think about these things in the context of themselves and within the exercises of themselves and within the exercises of themselves and within the exercises they do because you might adapt a they do because you might adapt a they do because you might adapt a different one of these uh for a different one of these uh for a different one of these uh for a different type of exercise. Would have different type of exercise. Would have different type of exercise. Would have been really great if you would have told been really great if you would have told been really great if you would have told that seven-year-old today when you were that seven-year-old today when you were that seven-year-old today when you were being lectured about your diet soda how being lectured about your diet soda how being lectured about your diet soda how much you bench press because I would much you bench press because I would much you bench press because I would love to hear what his reaction to how love to hear what his reaction to how love to hear what his reaction to how strong you were as well because maybe he strong you were as well because maybe he strong you were as well because maybe he had some tips for you. Yeah, there's no had some tips for you. Yeah, there's no had some tips for you. Yeah, there's no way I would have fessed up to that kid way I would have fessed up to that kid way I would have fessed up to that kid how bad my bench press is because like I how bad my bench press is because like I how bad my bench press is because like I he wouldn't have let me out of the he wouldn't have let me out of the he wouldn't have let me out of the cafeteria. He would have called the cafeteria. He would have called the cafeteria. He would have called the other kids over to just mock me. other kids over to just mock me. other kids over to just mock me. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] I love it. Um and it so for people I love it. Um and it so for people I love it. Um and it so for people thinking about this and how to apply it, thinking about this and how to apply it, thinking about this and how to apply it, how often do you recommend patients like how often do you recommend patients like how often do you recommend patients like work on increasing those different work on increasing those different work on increasing those different levers levers levers in their like daytoday, week to week, in their like daytoday, week to week, in their like daytoday, week to week, month-to-month training? I mean, the month-to-month training? I mean, the month-to-month training? I mean, the truth of the matter is you always need truth of the matter is you always need truth of the matter is you always need to be kind of trying to push this. Um, to be kind of trying to push this. Um, to be kind of trying to push this. Um, of course, uh, as we age, it's going to of course, uh, as we age, it's going to of course, uh, as we age, it's going to get harder and harder. And of course, at get harder and harder. And of course, at get harder and harder. And of course, at some point, we are going to be taking some point, we are going to be taking some point, we are going to be taking steps backwards, but the goal is you steps backwards, but the goal is you steps backwards, but the goal is you just don't want to get to the point just don't want to get to the point just don't want to get to the point where you're you're not pushing the where you're you're not pushing the where you're you're not pushing the envelope of what you're capable of. Now envelope of what you're capable of. Now envelope of what you're capable of. Now again, someone who's just starting out, again, someone who's just starting out, again, someone who's just starting out, you know, they it's it's their first few you know, they it's it's their first few you know, they it's it's their first few months of ever doing resistance months of ever doing resistance months of ever doing resistance training, they're they're going to be training, they're they're going to be training, they're they're going to be able to increase uh able to increase uh able to increase uh you know what I'm calling total load, you know what I'm calling total load, you know what I'm calling total load, which is a function of load, reps, uh which is a function of load, reps, uh which is a function of load, reps, uh rest, volume, like just you know the rest, volume, like just you know the rest, volume, like just you know the overall metric that encapsulates overall metric that encapsulates overall metric that encapsulates everything by 5 to 10% per week. whereas everything by 5 to 10% per week. whereas everything by 5 to 10% per week. whereas an advanced uh lifter might be at 1% uh an advanced uh lifter might be at 1% uh an advanced uh lifter might be at 1% uh increased load per week. Uh so so again increased load per week. Uh so so again increased load per week. Uh so so again it's just it's just really a function of it's just it's just really a function of it's just it's just really a function of um you know what your experience is but um you know what your experience is but um you know what your experience is but but again it's uh you know think of it but again it's uh you know think of it but again it's uh you know think of it through the lens of always try to push through the lens of always try to push through the lens of always try to push forward and then of course just to be forward and then of course just to be forward and then of course just to be clear we talk about having a de lo week. clear we talk about having a de lo week. clear we talk about having a de lo week. We talk about, you know, periods of We talk about, you know, periods of We talk about, you know, periods of backing off, but I'm I'm talking about backing off, but I'm I'm talking about backing off, but I'm I'm talking about not including those periods. not including those periods. not including those periods. >> And can we doubleclick on kind of the >> And can we doubleclick on kind of the >> And can we doubleclick on kind of the phases of a movement? So, concentric, phases of a movement? So, concentric, phases of a movement? So, concentric, eccentric movements and how one just eccentric movements and how one just eccentric movements and how one just kind of define them again for people and kind of define them again for people and kind of define them again for people and then also how people can utilize those then also how people can utilize those then also how people can utilize those both different movements as they think both different movements as they think both different movements as they think about getting stronger. about getting stronger. about getting stronger. >> Yes. So a concentric contraction occurs >> Yes. So a concentric contraction occurs >> Yes. So a concentric contraction occurs when a muscle is getting shorter while when a muscle is getting shorter while when a muscle is getting shorter while producing force. This is what most producing force. This is what most producing force. This is what most people think of when they think about people think of when they think about people think of when they think about lifting a weight. So again, we talk a lifting a weight. So again, we talk a lifting a weight. So again, we talk a bicep is the easiest way to think about bicep is the easiest way to think about bicep is the easiest way to think about this, but of course it's true for any this, but of course it's true for any this, but of course it's true for any muscle. So, if my arm is straight and muscle. So, if my arm is straight and muscle. So, if my arm is straight and I'm curling uh a dumbbell up using my I'm curling uh a dumbbell up using my I'm curling uh a dumbbell up using my bicep, the concentric phase of that is bicep, the concentric phase of that is bicep, the concentric phase of that is while the bicep is getting shorter um while the bicep is getting shorter um while the bicep is getting shorter um and I'm I'm lifting it up. So, training and I'm I'm lifting it up. So, training and I'm I'm lifting it up. So, training the concentric phase is where we build the concentric phase is where we build the concentric phase is where we build power and force output. Um, so the power and force output. Um, so the power and force output. Um, so the faster you do the concentric phase, the faster you do the concentric phase, the faster you do the concentric phase, the more power you generate. Is there a time more power you generate. Is there a time more power you generate. Is there a time and a place for that? Absolutely. One of and a place for that? Absolutely. One of and a place for that? Absolutely. One of my favorite exercises is on the Kaiser my favorite exercises is on the Kaiser my favorite exercises is on the Kaiser leg press machine, which is a pneumatic leg press machine, which is a pneumatic leg press machine, which is a pneumatic machine doing explosive single leg uh machine doing explosive single leg uh machine doing explosive single leg uh leg presses. Obviously, something you do leg presses. Obviously, something you do leg presses. Obviously, something you do after a big warm-up. Uh you don't want after a big warm-up. Uh you don't want after a big warm-up. Uh you don't want to put an old guy like me on a into an to put an old guy like me on a into an to put an old guy like me on a into an explosive movement, but you know, I'm explosive movement, but you know, I'm explosive movement, but you know, I'm usually doing this twothirds of the way usually doing this twothirds of the way usually doing this twothirds of the way through my warm-up uh through my through my warm-up uh through my through my warm-up uh through my exercise. Um which means I'm leaving a exercise. Um which means I'm leaving a exercise. Um which means I'm leaving a little bit on the table because I'm little bit on the table because I'm little bit on the table because I'm coming into it a little bit of pre- coming into it a little bit of pre- coming into it a little bit of pre- fatigue, but I that's a trade-off I'm fatigue, but I that's a trade-off I'm fatigue, but I that's a trade-off I'm willing to make at my age to reduce the willing to make at my age to reduce the willing to make at my age to reduce the risk of injury. And I'm going to not a risk of injury. And I'm going to not a risk of injury. And I'm going to not a maximum weight because remember maximum maximum weight because remember maximum maximum weight because remember maximum weight is not going to drive maximum weight is not going to drive maximum weight is not going to drive maximum power. I'm optimizing for power. So, I'm power. I'm optimizing for power. So, I'm power. I'm optimizing for power. So, I'm taking kind of a a weight that's maybe taking kind of a a weight that's maybe taking kind of a a weight that's maybe twothirds towards my, you know, what I twothirds towards my, you know, what I twothirds towards my, you know, what I would really do for a high strength set, would really do for a high strength set, would really do for a high strength set, and I'm doing the most explosive and I'm doing the most explosive and I'm doing the most explosive movements I can do with each leg. And movements I can do with each leg. And movements I can do with each leg. And again, the reason I like this Kaiser again, the reason I like this Kaiser again, the reason I like this Kaiser machine, I have no affiliation with machine, I have no affiliation with machine, I have no affiliation with these guys, is it's measuring speed and these guys, is it's measuring speed and these guys, is it's measuring speed and force and power. And so, I'm just doing force and power. And so, I'm just doing force and power. And so, I'm just doing a power max optimize. By the way, once I a power max optimize. By the way, once I a power max optimize. By the way, once I fall below 92% of peak power, the set is fall below 92% of peak power, the set is fall below 92% of peak power, the set is over. So, I'm really optimizing around over. So, I'm really optimizing around over. So, I'm really optimizing around peak power there. So, again, that's all peak power there. So, again, that's all peak power there. So, again, that's all focus on concentric movement. Now, focus on concentric movement. Now, focus on concentric movement. Now, conversely, eentric contraction is what conversely, eentric contraction is what conversely, eentric contraction is what happens when a muscle is lengthening happens when a muscle is lengthening happens when a muscle is lengthening under tension. Now, sometimes when we under tension. Now, sometimes when we under tension. Now, sometimes when we lift, we are ignoring that eccentric lift, we are ignoring that eccentric lift, we are ignoring that eccentric phase. When I'm doing that explosive phase. When I'm doing that explosive phase. When I'm doing that explosive movement, the my leg is blasting out movement, the my leg is blasting out movement, the my leg is blasting out under maximum power of the concentric under maximum power of the concentric under maximum power of the concentric phase. When I'm bringing that leg back, phase. When I'm bringing that leg back, phase. When I'm bringing that leg back, I'm not making any effort to do so I'm not making any effort to do so I'm not making any effort to do so slowly. I'm not trying to put any stress slowly. I'm not trying to put any stress slowly. I'm not trying to put any stress in the eccentric phase. The slower in the eccentric phase. The slower in the eccentric phase. The slower you're bringing that weight back, the you're bringing that weight back, the you're bringing that weight back, the more eccentric tension you are under. So more eccentric tension you are under. So more eccentric tension you are under. So again, going back to the bicep curl, I again, going back to the bicep curl, I again, going back to the bicep curl, I curl this thing up. The slower I let curl this thing up. The slower I let curl this thing up. The slower I let that thing come down, the more eccentric that thing come down, the more eccentric that thing come down, the more eccentric tension I have. And by the way, that's tension I have. And by the way, that's tension I have. And by the way, that's what places the mechanical stress on the what places the mechanical stress on the what places the mechanical stress on the muscle fibers, which creates more micro muscle fibers, which creates more micro muscle fibers, which creates more micro tears and damage within the fiber. And tears and damage within the fiber. And tears and damage within the fiber. And that's what's actually driving that's what's actually driving that's what's actually driving hypertrophy. So, whenever you're hypertrophy. So, whenever you're hypertrophy. So, whenever you're watching bodybuilders train, because watching bodybuilders train, because watching bodybuilders train, because again, bodybuilders primarily concerned again, bodybuilders primarily concerned again, bodybuilders primarily concerned with hypertrophy, you'll be amazed at with hypertrophy, you'll be amazed at with hypertrophy, you'll be amazed at the eentric control that they the eentric control that they the eentric control that they demonstrate. Now, this is very important demonstrate. Now, this is very important demonstrate. Now, this is very important for minimizing injury. you have to, you for minimizing injury. you have to, you for minimizing injury. you have to, you know, one of the things that I I think know, one of the things that I I think know, one of the things that I I think maybe sometimes people do wrong is maybe sometimes people do wrong is maybe sometimes people do wrong is they're not paying enough attention to they're not paying enough attention to they're not paying enough attention to their eccentric phase and they're uh, their eccentric phase and they're uh, their eccentric phase and they're uh, you know, they're they're you know, for you know, they're they're you know, for you know, they're they're you know, for example, like if if you're doing uh a example, like if if you're doing uh a example, like if if you're doing uh a leg curl, so you're sitting on a machine leg curl, so you're sitting on a machine leg curl, so you're sitting on a machine and you're curling back under the and you're curling back under the and you're curling back under the concentric phase, you're shortening the concentric phase, you're shortening the concentric phase, you're shortening the hamstring and you just let that thing go hamstring and you just let that thing go hamstring and you just let that thing go back. Um, you know, it's very easy to back. Um, you know, it's very easy to back. Um, you know, it's very easy to injure these muscles. So, I think we injure these muscles. So, I think we injure these muscles. So, I think we should almost always be be in control should almost always be be in control should almost always be be in control under the eccentric phase. The question under the eccentric phase. The question under the eccentric phase. The question is how much emphasis do you want to put is how much emphasis do you want to put is how much emphasis do you want to put on each? So to give you just one more on each? So to give you just one more on each? So to give you just one more final extreme example when I was cycling final extreme example when I was cycling final extreme example when I was cycling a lot um so this is more than 10 years a lot um so this is more than 10 years a lot um so this is more than 10 years ago. Um anybody who knows anything about ago. Um anybody who knows anything about ago. Um anybody who knows anything about cycling knows two things are true. You cycling knows two things are true. You cycling knows two things are true. You want very strong legs and you want to be want very strong legs and you want to be want very strong legs and you want to be as light as possible. So what role would as light as possible. So what role would as light as possible. So what role would weights play in a cyclist's training? weights play in a cyclist's training? weights play in a cyclist's training? Well, one of my favorite exercises to do Well, one of my favorite exercises to do Well, one of my favorite exercises to do was very heavy, and by very heavy I mean was very heavy, and by very heavy I mean was very heavy, and by very heavy I mean typically five reps, very heavy hexar typically five reps, very heavy hexar typically five reps, very heavy hexar deadlifts with drop sets. Uh, by drop deadlifts with drop sets. Uh, by drop deadlifts with drop sets. Uh, by drop sets, I mean literally not dropping I sets, I mean literally not dropping I sets, I mean literally not dropping I mean not dropping weights. I mean mean not dropping weights. I mean mean not dropping weights. I mean dropping the weight itself at the top. dropping the weight itself at the top. dropping the weight itself at the top. So in other words, heavy pickup with So in other words, heavy pickup with So in other words, heavy pickup with good explosion on the concentric phase. good explosion on the concentric phase. good explosion on the concentric phase. And you have to do this with a trap bar, And you have to do this with a trap bar, And you have to do this with a trap bar, not a straight bar, because then you at not a straight bar, because then you at not a straight bar, because then you at from a standing position drop the bar. from a standing position drop the bar. from a standing position drop the bar. So the whole hexar just drops and then So the whole hexar just drops and then So the whole hexar just drops and then you drop yourself down and with no you drop yourself down and with no you drop yourself down and with no tension and you pick it up and you do it tension and you pick it up and you do it tension and you pick it up and you do it again. So why would I do that? Well, I again. So why would I do that? Well, I again. So why would I do that? Well, I wanted maximum strength and power with wanted maximum strength and power with wanted maximum strength and power with zero size, right? Because size is zero size, right? Because size is zero size, right? Because size is weight. Cyclist doesn't want any weight. weight. Cyclist doesn't want any weight. weight. Cyclist doesn't want any weight. He just wants to have the strength. Um, He just wants to have the strength. Um, He just wants to have the strength. Um, so that was a very powerful exercise. so that was a very powerful exercise. so that was a very powerful exercise. And by the way, I could do that three And by the way, I could do that three And by the way, I could do that three times a week, sometimes four times a times a week, sometimes four times a times a week, sometimes four times a week because without the eccentric phase week because without the eccentric phase week because without the eccentric phase and without the tearing under tension of and without the tearing under tension of and without the tearing under tension of those muscle fibers, the recovery is those muscle fibers, the recovery is those muscle fibers, the recovery is very quick. Um, there's a lot of other very quick. Um, there's a lot of other very quick. Um, there's a lot of other things I did around those workouts. I things I did around those workouts. I things I did around those workouts. I was doing a lot of plyometrics, um, was doing a lot of plyometrics, um, was doing a lot of plyometrics, um, what's called a a post activation what's called a a post activation what's called a a post activation potentiation type workout. So, there's potentiation type workout. So, there's potentiation type workout. So, there's lots of really cool things you can do, lots of really cool things you can do, lots of really cool things you can do, but maybe that's more than you wanted, but maybe that's more than you wanted, but maybe that's more than you wanted, Nick. just think that that understanding Nick. just think that that understanding Nick. just think that that understanding concentric eccentric is is is is a very concentric eccentric is is is is a very concentric eccentric is is is is a very important uh tool for training. important uh tool for training. important uh tool for training. >> And Peter, you mentioned this when we >> And Peter, you mentioned this when we >> And Peter, you mentioned this when we were talking about the Andy Galpin were talking about the Andy Galpin were talking about the Andy Galpin episode where you talked about muscle episode where you talked about muscle episode where you talked about muscle fibers. Can you kind of give a brief fibers. Can you kind of give a brief fibers. Can you kind of give a brief summary of muscle fiber types and how summary of muscle fiber types and how summary of muscle fiber types and how they change with age again? they change with age again? they change with age again? >> Yeah. So whether you're talking >> Yeah. So whether you're talking >> Yeah. So whether you're talking strength, power, hypertrophy, they all strength, power, hypertrophy, they all strength, power, hypertrophy, they all have an association with a type of have an association with a type of have an association with a type of muscle fiber. So strength and power are muscle fiber. So strength and power are muscle fiber. So strength and power are associated with the type two fibers. the associated with the type two fibers. the associated with the type two fibers. the fast twitch fibers um and the the fast twitch fibers um and the the fast twitch fibers um and the the endurance type stuff um is is the type endurance type stuff um is is the type endurance type stuff um is is the type one fiber association. So slow twitch one fiber association. So slow twitch one fiber association. So slow twitch fibers. Um so again type one fibers less fibers. Um so again type one fibers less fibers. Um so again type one fibers less contractile force twi you know contract contractile force twi you know contract contractile force twi you know contract slower less power uh metabolically slower less power uh metabolically slower less power uh metabolically more fat dependent right they are more more fat dependent right they are more more fat dependent right they are more metabolically flexible type two they're metabolically flexible type two they're metabolically flexible type two they're they're they're um uh they're the red they're they're um uh they're the red they're they're um uh they're the red fibers by the way right so they're fibers by the way right so they're fibers by the way right so they're they're red because they're lots of uh they're red because they're lots of uh they're red because they're lots of uh lots of mitochondria lots of capillaries lots of mitochondria lots of capillaries lots of mitochondria lots of capillaries type two fibers Um, these ones have more type two fibers Um, these ones have more type two fibers Um, these ones have more contractile force um, metabolically contractile force um, metabolically contractile force um, metabolically glycolytic. glycolytic. glycolytic. And one of the I think one of the most And one of the I think one of the most And one of the I think one of the most interesting things that that Andy talked interesting things that that Andy talked interesting things that that Andy talked about in in in the podcast that always about in in in the podcast that always about in in in the podcast that always stuck with me and has stuck with me stuck with me and has stuck with me stuck with me and has stuck with me since is that um one of the most and I since is that um one of the most and I since is that um one of the most and I don't remember if he even described as don't remember if he even described as don't remember if he even described as the sinquanon of aging but certainly one the sinquanon of aging but certainly one the sinquanon of aging but certainly one of the hallmarks of aging is the atrophy of the hallmarks of aging is the atrophy of the hallmarks of aging is the atrophy of the type 2A muscle fiber. So the of the type 2A muscle fiber. So the of the type 2A muscle fiber. So the fibers that are most responsible for fibers that are most responsible for fibers that are most responsible for power um explosiveness are the ones that power um explosiveness are the ones that power um explosiveness are the ones that start to atrophy when we are already start to atrophy when we are already start to atrophy when we are already quite young in our 30s and 40s. Um so quite young in our 30s and 40s. Um so quite young in our 30s and 40s. Um so you know power is the first thing we're you know power is the first thing we're you know power is the first thing we're going to lose. Then we lose strength. going to lose. Then we lose strength. going to lose. Then we lose strength. Then we lose size. That's kind of the Then we lose size. That's kind of the Then we lose size. That's kind of the the order in which things go. And the order in which things go. And the order in which things go. And therefore, we think it's very important therefore, we think it's very important therefore, we think it's very important for people of any age to always for people of any age to always for people of any age to always incorporate power training in what they incorporate power training in what they incorporate power training in what they do. There's a use it or lose it aspect do. There's a use it or lose it aspect do. There's a use it or lose it aspect to this. Um, and you know, we just think to this. Um, and you know, we just think to this. Um, and you know, we just think that it's it's imperative that we keep that it's it's imperative that we keep that it's it's imperative that we keep it. it. it. >> That makes sense. And so, if someone's >> That makes sense. And so, if someone's >> That makes sense. And so, if someone's thinking, okay, how do I improve my thinking, okay, how do I improve my thinking, okay, how do I improve my power in the gym? What advice would you power in the gym? What advice would you power in the gym? What advice would you have for them? have for them? have for them? >> It's a lot like what I've talked about. >> It's a lot like what I've talked about. >> It's a lot like what I've talked about. You want to be able to move quickly You want to be able to move quickly You want to be able to move quickly through concentric phases. um and and through concentric phases. um and and through concentric phases. um and and that turns out to be superior to that turns out to be superior to that turns out to be superior to traditional resistance training. So traditional resistance training. So traditional resistance training. So there have been a number of studies that there have been a number of studies that there have been a number of studies that have looked at this. We found one review have looked at this. We found one review have looked at this. We found one review of 13 studies that found power training of 13 studies that found power training of 13 studies that found power training superior to traditional strength superior to traditional strength superior to traditional strength training for power. Um, in other words, training for power. Um, in other words, training for power. Um, in other words, when you took people and you had them when you took people and you had them when you took people and you had them lift a certain amount of weight versus lift a certain amount of weight versus lift a certain amount of weight versus lift the same amount of weight, but lift the same amount of weight, but lift the same amount of weight, but doing it quickly, not surprisingly, the doing it quickly, not surprisingly, the doing it quickly, not surprisingly, the improvements in power came in the improvements in power came in the improvements in power came in the individuals uh that were lifting individuals uh that were lifting individuals uh that were lifting quickly. And I'm I just for the sake of quickly. And I'm I just for the sake of quickly. And I'm I just for the sake of time, I I've taken a little longer than time, I I've taken a little longer than time, I I've taken a little longer than I intended to to to this part. I'm not I intended to to to this part. I'm not I intended to to to this part. I'm not going to go through all of the studies. going to go through all of the studies. going to go through all of the studies. They're in the show notes. Um, but They're in the show notes. Um, but They're in the show notes. Um, but they're they're actually quite they're they're actually quite they're they're actually quite remarkable the differences in power remarkable the differences in power remarkable the differences in power based on the training. again, you will based on the training. again, you will based on the training. again, you will become better at whatever it is you become better at whatever it is you become better at whatever it is you train for. train for. train for. >> And you kind of hinted at this earlier, >> And you kind of hinted at this earlier, >> And you kind of hinted at this earlier, but I think it's worth kind of but I think it's worth kind of but I think it's worth kind of explaining quickly in a question cuz explaining quickly in a question cuz explaining quickly in a question cuz it's one we get asked a lot, which is it's one we get asked a lot, which is it's one we get asked a lot, which is what quote unquote intensity should I be what quote unquote intensity should I be what quote unquote intensity should I be training at. Right? So, it's something training at. Right? So, it's something training at. Right? So, it's something that I think people hear a lot. And so, that I think people hear a lot. And so, that I think people hear a lot. And so, how do you think about the word how do you think about the word how do you think about the word intensity when it comes to someone's intensity when it comes to someone's intensity when it comes to someone's training? training? training? >> Well, first of all, it is a very >> Well, first of all, it is a very >> Well, first of all, it is a very important variable in this entire important variable in this entire important variable in this entire equation. I think there are different equation. I think there are different equation. I think there are different ways that you can think about it. So you ways that you can think about it. So you ways that you can think about it. So you can think about muscular failure which can think about muscular failure which can think about muscular failure which is the point at which you can no longer is the point at which you can no longer is the point at which you can no longer perform another rep. Um do you need to perform another rep. Um do you need to perform another rep. Um do you need to do that very often? No you don't. Um in do that very often? No you don't. Um in do that very often? No you don't. Um in fact there are risks associated with fact there are risks associated with fact there are risks associated with doing that. I find myself there doing that. I find myself there doing that. I find myself there once or twice uh during an entire once or twice uh during an entire once or twice uh during an entire workout. Um and I'm not usually workout. Um and I'm not usually workout. Um and I'm not usually designing myself to go there but but designing myself to go there but but designing myself to go there but but it's it's going to happen obviously. it's it's going to happen obviously. it's it's going to happen obviously. Then you have technical failure. Now, Then you have technical failure. Now, Then you have technical failure. Now, this is a place where I do get to quite this is a place where I do get to quite this is a place where I do get to quite a bit in a workout. This is when um I a bit in a workout. This is when um I a bit in a workout. This is when um I can't do another rep without can't do another rep without can't do another rep without compromising my form or cheating. And compromising my form or cheating. And compromising my form or cheating. And again, I think this is maybe easier for again, I think this is maybe easier for again, I think this is maybe easier for people who have been lifting weights a people who have been lifting weights a people who have been lifting weights a longer time, you have a little bit more longer time, you have a little bit more longer time, you have a little bit more of a sense of what cheating looks like. of a sense of what cheating looks like. of a sense of what cheating looks like. And that can be something as little as And that can be something as little as And that can be something as little as just rocking a little bit on a curl or just rocking a little bit on a curl or just rocking a little bit on a curl or not doing a full enough rep or bouncing not doing a full enough rep or bouncing not doing a full enough rep or bouncing on the bottom or something of that on the bottom or something of that on the bottom or something of that nature. So again, if you're if you're nature. So again, if you're if you're nature. So again, if you're if you're and and and by the way, I'm not here to and and and by the way, I'm not here to and and and by the way, I'm not here to say that techn that you should always say that techn that you should always say that techn that you should always stick to perfect form. I've heard people stick to perfect form. I've heard people stick to perfect form. I've heard people far more intelligent and informed about far more intelligent and informed about far more intelligent and informed about bodybuilding than I will ever be talk bodybuilding than I will ever be talk bodybuilding than I will ever be talk about all sorts of reasons why sometimes about all sorts of reasons why sometimes about all sorts of reasons why sometimes progressing through technical failure progressing through technical failure progressing through technical failure and going into cheat reps is a great and going into cheat reps is a great and going into cheat reps is a great thing to do. Um and again, I would just thing to do. Um and again, I would just thing to do. Um and again, I would just kind of defer to to to the experts on kind of defer to to to the experts on kind of defer to to to the experts on that. The way I think about this though that. The way I think about this though that. The way I think about this though and I think the most helpful way is to and I think the most helpful way is to and I think the most helpful way is to go through the rep and reserve analogy go through the rep and reserve analogy go through the rep and reserve analogy or not analogy but framework really or not analogy but framework really or not analogy but framework really right which is right which is right which is and again I think this is where most and again I think this is where most and again I think this is where most people ought to live is in the one to people ought to live is in the one to people ought to live is in the one to two riir rep in reserve uh area. It's a two riir rep in reserve uh area. It's a two riir rep in reserve uh area. It's a very safe place to be. You're not going very safe place to be. You're not going very safe place to be. You're not going to get into trouble and by the way to get into trouble and by the way to get into trouble and by the way you're virtually getting the same you're virtually getting the same you're virtually getting the same benefits as going to failure on every benefits as going to failure on every benefits as going to failure on every set which truthfully is almost set which truthfully is almost set which truthfully is almost impossible anyway. So, that means I'm impossible anyway. So, that means I'm impossible anyway. So, that means I'm stopping at a point when I could only do stopping at a point when I could only do stopping at a point when I could only do one or two more reps. Now, one or two more reps. Now, one or two more reps. Now, you're never going to know what that you're never going to know what that you're never going to know what that feels like if you don't fail a couple of feels like if you don't fail a couple of feels like if you don't fail a couple of times. So, you you sort of just you got times. So, you you sort of just you got times. So, you you sort of just you got to accept the fact I'm going to have to to accept the fact I'm going to have to to accept the fact I'm going to have to fail. Um maybe don't pick a bench press fail. Um maybe don't pick a bench press fail. Um maybe don't pick a bench press when nobody's around as the time to when nobody's around as the time to when nobody's around as the time to figure out what that feels like. But you figure out what that feels like. But you figure out what that feels like. But you can definitely figure that out when can definitely figure that out when can definitely figure that out when you've got a spotter and you can you've got a spotter and you can you've got a spotter and you can definitely figure that out on an definitely figure that out on an definitely figure that out on an exercise where the consequence of exercise where the consequence of exercise where the consequence of failure is very low. And uh again, failure is very low. And uh again, failure is very low. And uh again, everybody can figure this out. And once everybody can figure this out. And once everybody can figure this out. And once you know it, I would just encourage you know it, I would just encourage you know it, I would just encourage people to be in the 1 to2 ri um range people to be in the 1 to2 ri um range people to be in the 1 to2 ri um range for virtually everything they're doing for virtually everything they're doing for virtually everything they're doing unless again they have very specific unless again they have very specific unless again they have very specific goals around power or around uh extremes goals around power or around uh extremes goals around power or around uh extremes of strength. Peter, another question we of strength. Peter, another question we of strength. Peter, another question we get asked is, "When I'm in the gym, get asked is, "When I'm in the gym, get asked is, "When I'm in the gym, should I be focusing on specific muscle should I be focusing on specific muscle should I be focusing on specific muscle groups? Should I prioritize full body groups? Should I prioritize full body groups? Should I prioritize full body movements?" Kind of. How do you think movements?" Kind of. How do you think movements?" Kind of. How do you think about that for yourself and your about that for yourself and your about that for yourself and your patients? patients? patients? >> Compound exercises, which I think people >> Compound exercises, which I think people >> Compound exercises, which I think people are familiar with that, but they're are familiar with that, but they're are familiar with that, but they're they're they're exercises that would they're they're exercises that would they're they're exercises that would engage multiple muscle groups and engage multiple muscle groups and engage multiple muscle groups and joints. It's really the joints that joints. It's really the joints that joints. It's really the joints that they're talking about, compound joint, they're talking about, compound joint, they're talking about, compound joint, uh, simultaneously. So, a squat, a uh, simultaneously. So, a squat, a uh, simultaneously. So, a squat, a deadlift, presses, rows, these these deadlift, presses, rows, these these deadlift, presses, rows, these these provide the foundation for overall provide the foundation for overall provide the foundation for overall strength and muscle mass. And so, again, strength and muscle mass. And so, again, strength and muscle mass. And so, again, when we talk about powerlifting, which when we talk about powerlifting, which when we talk about powerlifting, which again is such an awful name, it should again is such an awful name, it should again is such an awful name, it should be called strength lifting. Um, it only be called strength lifting. Um, it only be called strength lifting. Um, it only has three exercises. A squat, a has three exercises. A squat, a has three exercises. A squat, a deadlift, a bench press. So, those are, deadlift, a bench press. So, those are, deadlift, a bench press. So, those are, you know, three of the most important you know, three of the most important you know, three of the most important exercises there are. Clearly, the exercises there are. Clearly, the exercises there are. Clearly, the foundation for what they do. Similarly, foundation for what they do. Similarly, foundation for what they do. Similarly, when you look at bodybuilders at the when you look at bodybuilders at the when you look at bodybuilders at the opposite end of the spectrum trying to opposite end of the spectrum trying to opposite end of the spectrum trying to generate as much muscle mass as generate as much muscle mass as generate as much muscle mass as possible, pretty rare that they're not possible, pretty rare that they're not possible, pretty rare that they're not doing some variations of those. Now, a doing some variations of those. Now, a doing some variations of those. Now, a lot of times injuries will, you know, lot of times injuries will, you know, lot of times injuries will, you know, allow them to do other things. They allow them to do other things. They allow them to do other things. They might not do a perfect squat. They might might not do a perfect squat. They might might not do a perfect squat. They might end up doing variations of squats, but end up doing variations of squats, but end up doing variations of squats, but they're they're basically all working in they're they're basically all working in they're they're basically all working in the same thing. Um, isolation exercises the same thing. Um, isolation exercises the same thing. Um, isolation exercises are also totally helpful, valuable. uh are also totally helpful, valuable. uh are also totally helpful, valuable. uh we should be doing those as well. It's we should be doing those as well. It's we should be doing those as well. It's really kind of a question of time and really kind of a question of time and really kind of a question of time and [snorts] goals. Um so if if I don't have [snorts] goals. Um so if if I don't have [snorts] goals. Um so if if I don't have much time in the gym, I'm only doing much time in the gym, I'm only doing much time in the gym, I'm only doing compound exercises. Um right, if I h and compound exercises. Um right, if I h and compound exercises. Um right, if I h and I I'm trying to make the time to do uh I I'm trying to make the time to do uh I I'm trying to make the time to do uh accessory movements as well, but I accessory movements as well, but I accessory movements as well, but I typically start with my compound typically start with my compound typically start with my compound movements and then move to my accessory movements and then move to my accessory movements and then move to my accessory movements later. Um, other things to movements later. Um, other things to movements later. Um, other things to think about is that compound movements think about is that compound movements think about is that compound movements uh are are actually uh are are actually uh are are actually they're they're challenging, right? I they're they're challenging, right? I they're they're challenging, right? I mean, there's a skill to doing a mean, there's a skill to doing a mean, there's a skill to doing a compound movement. Uh, anybody listening compound movement. Uh, anybody listening compound movement. Uh, anybody listening who's um, you know, gone down the rabbit who's um, you know, gone down the rabbit who's um, you know, gone down the rabbit hole of powerlifting and learning how to hole of powerlifting and learning how to hole of powerlifting and learning how to do a deadlift correctly and learning how do a deadlift correctly and learning how do a deadlift correctly and learning how to do a squat correctly understands that to do a squat correctly understands that to do a squat correctly understands that you can have all the strength in the you can have all the strength in the you can have all the strength in the world, but if you don't have the control world, but if you don't have the control world, but if you don't have the control um, and and if you don't have the um, and and if you don't have the um, and and if you don't have the coordination to do these exercises, coordination to do these exercises, coordination to do these exercises, you're you're not going to be able to you're you're not going to be able to you're you're not going to be able to translate your strength accordingly and translate your strength accordingly and translate your strength accordingly and you're probably going to get injured. you're probably going to get injured. you're probably going to get injured. Um, and so in many ways that becomes uh Um, and so in many ways that becomes uh Um, and so in many ways that becomes uh part of the part of the uh enjoyment of part of the part of the uh enjoyment of part of the part of the uh enjoyment of doing those exercises is it's a doing those exercises is it's a doing those exercises is it's a technique more than it is just kind of a technique more than it is just kind of a technique more than it is just kind of a mindless activity. Is resistance mindless activity. Is resistance mindless activity. Is resistance training the only way to build muscle. A training the only way to build muscle. A training the only way to build muscle. A lot of times we'll get questions on how lot of times we'll get questions on how lot of times we'll get questions on how effective are body weight exercises like effective are body weight exercises like effective are body weight exercises like I like calisthenics, I like yoga. Is I like calisthenics, I like yoga. Is I like calisthenics, I like yoga. Is that sufficient as we think about muscle that sufficient as we think about muscle that sufficient as we think about muscle strength, muscle mass? Well, resistance strength, muscle mass? Well, resistance strength, muscle mass? Well, resistance training with weights is hands down the training with weights is hands down the training with weights is hands down the most effective way to build muscle. Um, most effective way to build muscle. Um, most effective way to build muscle. Um, it's not the only way. Uh, one could it's not the only way. Uh, one could it's not the only way. Uh, one could clearly with the right types of body clearly with the right types of body clearly with the right types of body weight exercises, um, build muscle. Um, weight exercises, um, build muscle. Um, weight exercises, um, build muscle. Um, that's going to be especially true for, that's going to be especially true for, that's going to be especially true for, you know, beginners. Um, but I think we, you know, beginners. Um, but I think we, you know, beginners. Um, but I think we, you know, we need to sort of acknowledge you know, we need to sort of acknowledge you know, we need to sort of acknowledge that it's going to be very difficult that it's going to be very difficult that it's going to be very difficult with many of the body weight exercises with many of the body weight exercises with many of the body weight exercises to get to that one ri phase. Now, of to get to that one ri phase. Now, of to get to that one ri phase. Now, of course, um, pull-ups and push-ups can course, um, pull-ups and push-ups can course, um, pull-ups and push-ups can get you there. The advantage of a get you there. The advantage of a get you there. The advantage of a pull-up is most of us are going to get pull-up is most of us are going to get pull-up is most of us are going to get there in a rep range that is more there in a rep range that is more there in a rep range that is more congruent with hypertrophy and strength. congruent with hypertrophy and strength. congruent with hypertrophy and strength. I don't I'm sure there's data out there I don't I'm sure there's data out there I don't I'm sure there's data out there that say the average male and the that say the average male and the that say the average male and the average female can do x number of average female can do x number of average female can do x number of pull-ups. It's a low number. Conversely, pull-ups. It's a low number. Conversely, pull-ups. It's a low number. Conversely, push-ups for most people, I think push-ups for most people, I think push-ups for most people, I think certainly once they become fit, most certainly once they become fit, most certainly once they become fit, most people would be doing enough push-ups people would be doing enough push-ups people would be doing enough push-ups that going to failure, they're really that going to failure, they're really that going to failure, they're really going to be out there in um in in muscle going to be out there in um in in muscle going to be out there in um in in muscle um endurance land and therefore they're um endurance land and therefore they're um endurance land and therefore they're really not going to be able to put on really not going to be able to put on really not going to be able to put on much size. So, if size and um and much size. So, if size and um and much size. So, if size and um and strength are priorities, body weight strength are priorities, body weight strength are priorities, body weight exercises are not going to be your most exercises are not going to be your most exercises are not going to be your most effective way to go. Doesn't mean you're effective way to go. Doesn't mean you're effective way to go. Doesn't mean you're not going to get some benefit. You will, not going to get some benefit. You will, not going to get some benefit. You will, uh but you're probably going to get more uh but you're probably going to get more uh but you're probably going to get more muscle endurance. muscle endurance. muscle endurance. >> And how do women need to think about >> And how do women need to think about >> And how do women need to think about this compared to men? So, one question this compared to men? So, one question this compared to men? So, one question we often get is, as a female, should I we often get is, as a female, should I we often get is, as a female, should I be thinking about resistance training be thinking about resistance training be thinking about resistance training any differently as you continually talk any differently as you continually talk any differently as you continually talk about it? You know, I think it's safe to about it? You know, I think it's safe to about it? You know, I think it's safe to say this is an area I'm looking forward say this is an area I'm looking forward say this is an area I'm looking forward to exploring a little bit more on the to exploring a little bit more on the to exploring a little bit more on the podcast. Um, at the surface level, the podcast. Um, at the surface level, the podcast. Um, at the surface level, the advice is generally the same. Um, so, so advice is generally the same. Um, so, so advice is generally the same. Um, so, so there's not like some wildly different there's not like some wildly different there's not like some wildly different magic principle that says, "Oh, women magic principle that says, "Oh, women magic principle that says, "Oh, women need to only go to three reps in reserve need to only go to three reps in reserve need to only go to three reps in reserve or need a totally different amount of or need a totally different amount of or need a totally different amount of volume." for the most part it's volume." for the most part it's volume." for the most part it's generally the same in terms of these generally the same in terms of these generally the same in terms of these principles and protein requirements. Um principles and protein requirements. Um principles and protein requirements. Um but obviously the strength to weight but obviously the strength to weight but obviously the strength to weight ratios are going to be a little bit ratios are going to be a little bit ratios are going to be a little bit different. Women tend to have more joint different. Women tend to have more joint different. Women tend to have more joint laxity um and they may be more laxity um and they may be more laxity um and they may be more susceptible to injury. So they might susceptible to injury. So they might susceptible to injury. So they might need to be even more mindful um of tempo need to be even more mindful um of tempo need to be even more mindful um of tempo work, maybe more focus on the eccentric work, maybe more focus on the eccentric work, maybe more focus on the eccentric phase. Um but again, we're still phase. Um but again, we're still phase. Um but again, we're still thinking about um the same the same rep thinking about um the same the same rep thinking about um the same the same rep ranges. Um the hormones create a totally ranges. Um the hormones create a totally ranges. Um the hormones create a totally different issue, right? So reduction of different issue, right? So reduction of different issue, right? So reduction of estrogen and testosterone during estrogen and testosterone during estrogen and testosterone during menopause if they're not on HRT, um will menopause if they're not on HRT, um will menopause if they're not on HRT, um will lead to elevated rates of of sarcopenia. lead to elevated rates of of sarcopenia. lead to elevated rates of of sarcopenia. So we're not, you know, we're talking So we're not, you know, we're talking So we're not, you know, we're talking about women who are not professional about women who are not professional about women who are not professional athletes, but ordinary women. Um, and so athletes, but ordinary women. Um, and so athletes, but ordinary women. Um, and so if anything to me that just says women if anything to me that just says women if anything to me that just says women need to be at least as mindful, if not need to be at least as mindful, if not need to be at least as mindful, if not more mindful of this. Um, more mindful of this. Um, more mindful of this. Um, again, I go back to the podcast with again, I go back to the podcast with again, I go back to the podcast with Belinda Beck, which is, you know, one of Belinda Beck, which is, you know, one of Belinda Beck, which is, you know, one of the one of the most enjoyable the one of the most enjoyable the one of the most enjoyable discussions I' I've ever had just about discussions I' I've ever had just about discussions I' I've ever had just about the the sheer bliss of of watching these the the sheer bliss of of watching these the the sheer bliss of of watching these women in their 60s doing a, you know, a women in their 60s doing a, you know, a women in their 60s doing a, you know, a clinical trial where they're basically clinical trial where they're basically clinical trial where they're basically instructed to just walk around and lift instructed to just walk around and lift instructed to just walk around and lift heavy weights and see how that improved heavy weights and see how that improved heavy weights and see how that improved their strength, how that improved their their strength, how that improved their their strength, how that improved their bone density, how it just improved their bone density, how it just improved their bone density, how it just improved their quality of life overall. So, um, yeah, quality of life overall. So, um, yeah, quality of life overall. So, um, yeah, women women need to be lifting weights women women need to be lifting weights women women need to be lifting weights as much as men is the is the big as much as men is the is the big as much as men is the is the big take-home. And while there may be third take-home. And while there may be third take-home. And while there may be third and fourth order differences, I wouldn't and fourth order differences, I wouldn't and fourth order differences, I wouldn't let any of those discourage anybody from let any of those discourage anybody from let any of those discourage anybody from from jumping on it. Now, what are some from jumping on it. Now, what are some from jumping on it. Now, what are some metrics that people can do in the gym to metrics that people can do in the gym to metrics that people can do in the gym to track their progress on strength slash track their progress on strength slash track their progress on strength slash goals they should have? You've often goals they should have? You've often goals they should have? You've often talked about a few in the past um in talked about a few in the past um in talked about a few in the past um in different spots, but do you just want to different spots, but do you just want to different spots, but do you just want to talk maybe about a handful of if talk maybe about a handful of if talk maybe about a handful of if someone's in the gym wants to test where someone's in the gym wants to test where someone's in the gym wants to test where they're at, what are they what are a few they're at, what are they what are a few they're at, what are they what are a few things they could do to see? things they could do to see? things they could do to see? >> Yeah, I mean before doing that, I think >> Yeah, I mean before doing that, I think >> Yeah, I mean before doing that, I think it we should acknowledge that tracking it we should acknowledge that tracking it we should acknowledge that tracking one RMS as a metric, one rep max as a one RMS as a metric, one rep max as a one RMS as a metric, one rep max as a metric of of what one can do is is a metric of of what one can do is is a metric of of what one can do is is a totally reasonable way to do it. And totally reasonable way to do it. And totally reasonable way to do it. And it's a way that I used to do it for many it's a way that I used to do it for many it's a way that I used to do it for many years, right? I used to be very tuned in years, right? I used to be very tuned in years, right? I used to be very tuned in to my one rep max of a squat, a to my one rep max of a squat, a to my one rep max of a squat, a deadlift, a bench. Um, and by the way, I deadlift, a bench. Um, and by the way, I deadlift, a bench. Um, and by the way, I didn't always do the one rep max. So, didn't always do the one rep max. So, didn't always do the one rep max. So, there's there are very predictable there's there are very predictable there's there are very predictable formulas that say if you can do if this formulas that say if you can do if this formulas that say if you can do if this is your five rep failure, your four rep is your five rep failure, your four rep is your five rep failure, your four rep failure, your three rep failure, your failure, your three rep failure, your failure, your three rep failure, your two rep failure, you can, and we'll link two rep failure, you can, and we'll link two rep failure, you can, and we'll link to the table that shows what the formula to the table that shows what the formula to the table that shows what the formula is. It's pretty straightforward. So is. It's pretty straightforward. So is. It's pretty straightforward. So truthfully, I would do a lot of twos and truthfully, I would do a lot of twos and truthfully, I would do a lot of twos and threes, like, you know, max two, max threes, like, you know, max two, max threes, like, you know, max two, max three, and impute my one rep. Okay, I three, and impute my one rep. Okay, I three, and impute my one rep. Okay, I don't do any of that stuff anymore. Um, don't do any of that stuff anymore. Um, don't do any of that stuff anymore. Um, and today what I tend to focus on are and today what I tend to focus on are and today what I tend to focus on are other metrics that I care about. Some other metrics that I care about. Some other metrics that I care about. Some are power related, some are strength are power related, some are strength are power related, some are strength related. So I still keep track of like related. So I still keep track of like related. So I still keep track of like my long jump, right? So just a standing my long jump, right? So just a standing my long jump, right? So just a standing broad jump. Um, again, why do I love broad jump. Um, again, why do I love broad jump. Um, again, why do I love that? I think Andy Galpin also talked that? I think Andy Galpin also talked that? I think Andy Galpin also talked about this amazing exercise once you're about this amazing exercise once you're about this amazing exercise once you're warmed up. Don't do that one cold. That warmed up. Don't do that one cold. That warmed up. Don't do that one cold. That is testing in one movement your maximum is testing in one movement your maximum is testing in one movement your maximum power and your eccentric strength. So, I power and your eccentric strength. So, I power and your eccentric strength. So, I don't know if you've done many standing don't know if you've done many standing don't know if you've done many standing jumps anymore, Nick, but the takeoff is jumps anymore, Nick, but the takeoff is jumps anymore, Nick, but the takeoff is a maximum concentric power movement. But a maximum concentric power movement. But a maximum concentric power movement. But to stick that landing, you have to have to stick that landing, you have to have to stick that landing, you have to have the brakes. That's a maximum eccentric the brakes. That's a maximum eccentric the brakes. That's a maximum eccentric movement. And so, you know, one of the movement. And so, you know, one of the movement. And so, you know, one of the metrics that I just maintain in my life metrics that I just maintain in my life metrics that I just maintain in my life as I think about aging is I want to go as I think about aging is I want to go as I think about aging is I want to go as long as I can in life being able to as long as I can in life being able to as long as I can in life being able to do a broad jump that is taller than my do a broad jump that is taller than my do a broad jump that is taller than my height. So, you know, on my floor I have height. So, you know, on my floor I have height. So, you know, on my floor I have uh slightly longer than my height. I uh slightly longer than my height. I uh slightly longer than my height. I have six feet marked out on the floor. have six feet marked out on the floor. have six feet marked out on the floor. And every day I'm like, "Hey, I don't do And every day I'm like, "Hey, I don't do And every day I'm like, "Hey, I don't do it every day, but like every day I want it every day, but like every day I want it every day, but like every day I want to be able to make sure I can to be able to make sure I can to be able to make sure I can comfortably do that." And at some point comfortably do that." And at some point comfortably do that." And at some point it's not going to be easy, right? And it's not going to be easy, right? And it's not going to be easy, right? And maybe at some point I won't be able to maybe at some point I won't be able to maybe at some point I won't be able to do it. Um, pull-ups, I think, are a do it. Um, pull-ups, I think, are a do it. Um, pull-ups, I think, are a great test for people. Um, especially if great test for people. Um, especially if great test for people. Um, especially if done under control, uh, with complete done under control, uh, with complete done under control, uh, with complete range of motion. Uh, maybe doing an range of motion. Uh, maybe doing an range of motion. Uh, maybe doing an exaggerated eccentric. So, we would say exaggerated eccentric. So, we would say exaggerated eccentric. So, we would say for males, five or more with for for males, five or more with for for males, five or more with for females, three or more complete pull-ups females, three or more complete pull-ups females, three or more complete pull-ups with a 3-se secondond eccentric. People with a 3-se secondond eccentric. People with a 3-se secondond eccentric. People have heard me talk about a dead hang. We have heard me talk about a dead hang. We have heard me talk about a dead hang. We we say a target for a male would be 2 we say a target for a male would be 2 we say a target for a male would be 2 minutes, for a female, a minute and a minutes, for a female, a minute and a minutes, for a female, a minute and a half. a wall sit with thighs parallel to half. a wall sit with thighs parallel to half. a wall sit with thighs parallel to the floor. Two minutes for both men and the floor. Two minutes for both men and the floor. Two minutes for both men and women. Um, a farmer's carry, we would women. Um, a farmer's carry, we would women. Um, a farmer's carry, we would say, um, you know, can you carry a 100% say, um, you know, can you carry a 100% say, um, you know, can you carry a 100% of your body weight? So, 50% in each of your body weight? So, 50% in each of your body weight? So, 50% in each hand for a minute. As a male, 75% of hand for a minute. As a male, 75% of hand for a minute. As a male, 75% of your body weight, half of that in each your body weight, half of that in each your body weight, half of that in each hand if you're a female. Um, a box step hand if you're a female. Um, a box step hand if you're a female. Um, a box step up with 25% of your body weight in each up with 25% of your body weight in each up with 25% of your body weight in each hand, five reps per side. That's that's hand, five reps per side. That's that's hand, five reps per side. That's that's a big big ham glute test. Um, and then a a big big ham glute test. Um, and then a a big big ham glute test. Um, and then a wall push-up. So, we do a wall push-up wall push-up. So, we do a wall push-up wall push-up. So, we do a wall push-up just so that your feet um don't you just so that your feet um don't you just so that your feet um don't you don't rock back and forth. It basically don't rock back and forth. It basically don't rock back and forth. It basically prevents cheating. So, we'd say, you prevents cheating. So, we'd say, you prevents cheating. So, we'd say, you know, could a guy do 20, you know, know, could a guy do 20, you know, know, could a guy do 20, you know, really well uh controlled push-ups? really well uh controlled push-ups? really well uh controlled push-ups? Could a could a woman do 10? Those would Could a could a woman do 10? Those would Could a could a woman do 10? Those would be amazing uh markers of strength. And be amazing uh markers of strength. And be amazing uh markers of strength. And and I think that, you know, what's more and I think that, you know, what's more and I think that, you know, what's more important to me is is not whether you important to me is is not whether you important to me is is not whether you hit these targets, it's whether you're hit these targets, it's whether you're hit these targets, it's whether you're making progress. We've talked about this making progress. We've talked about this making progress. We've talked about this before, so I think we can kind of go before, so I think we can kind of go before, so I think we can kind of go through it quick, but just if people are through it quick, but just if people are through it quick, but just if people are doing dexes to measure their muscle doing dexes to measure their muscle doing dexes to measure their muscle mass, do you just want to remind people mass, do you just want to remind people mass, do you just want to remind people what metrics they're looking at on a what metrics they're looking at on a what metrics they're looking at on a DEXA and what percentile you like to see DEXA and what percentile you like to see DEXA and what percentile you like to see them at? them at? them at? >> Yeah. And some DEXAs just give you this >> Yeah. And some DEXAs just give you this >> Yeah. And some DEXAs just give you this information. Most don't. You usually information. Most don't. You usually information. Most don't. You usually have to calculate it on your own. So, we have to calculate it on your own. So, we have to calculate it on your own. So, we look at appendicular lean mass index and look at appendicular lean mass index and look at appendicular lean mass index and fat-free mass index. So, assuming you fat-free mass index. So, assuming you fat-free mass index. So, assuming you have a um a DEXA scan that's not showing have a um a DEXA scan that's not showing have a um a DEXA scan that's not showing this to you, you you want to go to the this to you, you you want to go to the this to you, you you want to go to the section where it says, you know, it section where it says, you know, it section where it says, you know, it shows you lean mass uh by extremity. So, shows you lean mass uh by extremity. So, shows you lean mass uh by extremity. So, you would literally, you know, add up you would literally, you know, add up you would literally, you know, add up how much lean mass in left arm, right how much lean mass in left arm, right how much lean mass in left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg. Uh put that in arm, left leg, right leg. Uh put that in arm, left leg, right leg. Uh put that in kilos. So, if it's done in pounds, you kilos. So, if it's done in pounds, you kilos. So, if it's done in pounds, you got to convert it to kilos. Um and then got to convert it to kilos. Um and then got to convert it to kilos. Um and then divide it by your height, which has to divide it by your height, which has to divide it by your height, which has to be in meters squared. And um and then be in meters squared. And um and then be in meters squared. And um and then that number you put on a nomogram which that number you put on a nomogram which that number you put on a nomogram which we'll include in the show notes and then we'll include in the show notes and then we'll include in the show notes and then you'll see your percentile. You do the you'll see your percentile. You do the you'll see your percentile. You do the exact same exercise with fat free mass exact same exercise with fat free mass exact same exercise with fat free mass although there it's easier because although there it's easier because although there it's easier because you're just looking at total mass you're just looking at total mass you're just looking at total mass subtracting out fat mass and dividing subtracting out fat mass and dividing subtracting out fat mass and dividing that by the height in meters squared. Uh that by the height in meters squared. Uh that by the height in meters squared. Uh and again you'll you'll see these things and again you'll you'll see these things and again you'll you'll see these things are you know often um I would say are you know often um I would say are you know often um I would say concordant but they can be discordant. concordant but they can be discordant. concordant but they can be discordant. Um, and you know, we we like to see Um, and you know, we we like to see Um, and you know, we we like to see people above or at the 75th percentile people above or at the 75th percentile people above or at the 75th percentile for each of those metrics. Uh, but for each of those metrics. Uh, but for each of those metrics. Uh, but again, um, you know, not everybody's again, um, you know, not everybody's again, um, you know, not everybody's going to get there, right? There are going to get there, right? There are going to get there, right? There are some people whose genetics, like my wife some people whose genetics, like my wife some people whose genetics, like my wife will never ever ever get above the 75th will never ever ever get above the 75th will never ever ever get above the 75th percentile. She's just not built that percentile. She's just not built that percentile. She's just not built that way. She has a tiny build and um, that's way. She has a tiny build and um, that's way. She has a tiny build and um, that's it's fine. We just, you know, we focus it's fine. We just, you know, we focus it's fine. We just, you know, we focus on her strength goals, not her size on her strength goals, not her size on her strength goals, not her size goals. um she's she's, you know, she's goals. um she's she's, you know, she's goals. um she's she's, you know, she's not gonna put that weight on. Um so so not gonna put that weight on. Um so so not gonna put that weight on. Um so so again, we're not going to spend much again, we're not going to spend much again, we're not going to spend much more time on it because I don't think more time on it because I don't think more time on it because I don't think it's nearly as important as as the it's nearly as important as as the it's nearly as important as as the strength side of things. strength side of things. strength side of things. >> That uh 7-year-old earlier today, what >> That uh 7-year-old earlier today, what >> That uh 7-year-old earlier today, what percent you think he was in ALMI, FFMI, percent you think he was in ALMI, FFMI, percent you think he was in ALMI, FFMI, was he above 75? Was he a strong kid? was he above 75? Was he a strong kid? was he above 75? Was he a strong kid? >> Um you know, it's funny. I've never seen >> Um you know, it's funny. I've never seen >> Um you know, it's funny. I've never seen the kidnomograms. They're going to be the kidnomograms. They're going to be the kidnomograms. They're going to be different cuz they're so short, but I'm different cuz they're so short, but I'm different cuz they're so short, but I'm pretty confident he's going to be 97th pretty confident he's going to be 97th pretty confident he's going to be 97th percentile by the time he's in high percentile by the time he's in high percentile by the time he's in high school. school. school. >> Okay. So, he's he's strong. He's got >> Okay. So, he's he's strong. He's got >> Okay. So, he's he's strong. He's got potential. potential. potential. >> So, you got >> So, you got >> So, you got >> As long as he stays away from diet soda. >> As long as he stays away from diet soda. >> As long as he stays away from diet soda. Yeah. I mean, Yeah. I mean, Yeah. I mean, >> well, how do you think he got so strong >> well, how do you think he got so strong >> well, how do you think he got so strong to date? to date? to date? >> He's not sitting there sipping diet >> He's not sitting there sipping diet >> He's not sitting there sipping diet cokes like a chump, you know. Um, okay. cokes like a chump, you know. Um, okay. cokes like a chump, you know. Um, okay. Moving on from how-to questions to now Moving on from how-to questions to now Moving on from how-to questions to now how often questions. So, how can someone how often questions. So, how can someone how often questions. So, how can someone balance rest and recovery with intensity balance rest and recovery with intensity balance rest and recovery with intensity of workouts? A common question we get of workouts? A common question we get of workouts? A common question we get asked is, you know, how frequently asked is, you know, how frequently asked is, you know, how frequently should someone work out? And obviously should someone work out? And obviously should someone work out? And obviously that's going to matter on how much time that's going to matter on how much time that's going to matter on how much time they have, but also how do you think of they have, but also how do you think of they have, but also how do you think of that with balancing that rest recovery that with balancing that rest recovery that with balancing that rest recovery with also needing to kind of push to with also needing to kind of push to with also needing to kind of push to failure often like we've talked about failure often like we've talked about failure often like we've talked about before your training age, experience, before your training age, experience, before your training age, experience, age, genetics, other stressors, age, genetics, other stressors, age, genetics, other stressors, nutrition, sleep play such a role in nutrition, sleep play such a role in nutrition, sleep play such a role in this. Um, and and because it's all so this. Um, and and because it's all so this. Um, and and because it's all so obvious which direction these things go obvious which direction these things go obvious which direction these things go into, again, I'm not going to go down into, again, I'm not going to go down into, again, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of each of these. It the rabbit hole of each of these. It the rabbit hole of each of these. It should be apparent that if you're young, should be apparent that if you're young, should be apparent that if you're young, if you're focusing on nothing but if you're focusing on nothing but if you're focusing on nothing but training, if you don't have any other training, if you don't have any other training, if you don't have any other responsibilities or stressors in your responsibilities or stressors in your responsibilities or stressors in your life, if you're sleeping eight or nine life, if you're sleeping eight or nine life, if you're sleeping eight or nine hours a night, eating non-stop, like hours a night, eating non-stop, like hours a night, eating non-stop, like there's a scenario where you can just there's a scenario where you can just there's a scenario where you can just train all day every day, and then train all day every day, and then train all day every day, and then there's a scenario where you're like the there's a scenario where you're like the there's a scenario where you're like the rest of us and you got to pick and rest of us and you got to pick and rest of us and you got to pick and choose. Um, and uh, I've I've choose. Um, and uh, I've I've choose. Um, and uh, I've I've experienced all sides of this. And um, experienced all sides of this. And um, experienced all sides of this. And um, I'll I'll probably just come at this I'll I'll probably just come at this I'll I'll probably just come at this through the lens of what I do and what I through the lens of what I do and what I through the lens of what I do and what I recommend my patients do because my recommend my patients do because my recommend my patients do because my patients like me have time is their is patients like me have time is their is patients like me have time is their is their bottleneck. Um, and and I think their bottleneck. Um, and and I think their bottleneck. Um, and and I think that's probably true for most people that's probably true for most people that's probably true for most people listening is we don't have infinite listening is we don't have infinite listening is we don't have infinite amounts of time. So, how do we make the amounts of time. So, how do we make the amounts of time. So, how do we make the best use of the time we have? best use of the time we have? best use of the time we have? Um, Um, Um, I think it is abundantly clear that if I think it is abundantly clear that if I think it is abundantly clear that if you train with the with the right you train with the with the right you train with the with the right exercise selection, exercise selection, exercise selection, um, with the correct intensity, um, with the correct intensity, um, with the correct intensity, uh, the right volume, uh, the right volume, uh, the right volume, you might only need to train each body you might only need to train each body you might only need to train each body part once a week. In fact, some of the part once a week. In fact, some of the part once a week. In fact, some of the most serious bodybuilders of all time most serious bodybuilders of all time most serious bodybuilders of all time have got away with training each body have got away with training each body have got away with training each body part once a week. And if they can do it, part once a week. And if they can do it, part once a week. And if they can do it, certainly the rest of us schleps can do certainly the rest of us schleps can do certainly the rest of us schleps can do it. Um, now of course you can do it. Um, now of course you can do it. Um, now of course you can do um body, you know, you can do full body um body, you know, you can do full body um body, you know, you can do full body workouts two to three times per week and workouts two to three times per week and workouts two to three times per week and rotate the types of exercises that go rotate the types of exercises that go rotate the types of exercises that go into it. I find that approach to be into it. I find that approach to be into it. I find that approach to be better for people who are early to better for people who are early to better for people who are early to strength training. Um, whereas I find strength training. Um, whereas I find strength training. Um, whereas I find the more experienced you get, the more the more experienced you get, the more the more experienced you get, the more you want to kind of go deeper on a set you want to kind of go deeper on a set you want to kind of go deeper on a set of muscle groups for um uh for for a for of muscle groups for um uh for for a for of muscle groups for um uh for for a for a given day. So, I I've played with all a given day. So, I I've played with all a given day. So, I I've played with all of these. I really like what I've been of these. I really like what I've been of these. I really like what I've been doing for the past year or so, which is doing for the past year or so, which is doing for the past year or so, which is three resistance workouts a week. Once a three resistance workouts a week. Once a three resistance workouts a week. Once a body part is done once a week and that's body part is done once a week and that's body part is done once a week and that's it. Um, it's done very hard and it's it it. Um, it's done very hard and it's it it. Um, it's done very hard and it's it takes me a couple of days for that body takes me a couple of days for that body takes me a couple of days for that body part to recover. So, for example, when I part to recover. So, for example, when I part to recover. So, for example, when I do legs on Monday, which I do, my do legs on Monday, which I do, my do legs on Monday, which I do, my Tuesday zone 2 ride is Tuesday zone 2 ride is Tuesday zone 2 ride is like that. That would be the most I like that. That would be the most I like that. That would be the most I could muster up. Um, I would not even could muster up. Um, I would not even could muster up. Um, I would not even attempt to do a V2 max workout the next attempt to do a V2 max workout the next attempt to do a V2 max workout the next day. Um, and sometimes I'm sore for from day. Um, and sometimes I'm sore for from day. Um, and sometimes I'm sore for from the lift for a day or two. Um, not the lift for a day or two. Um, not the lift for a day or two. Um, not uncommon. Um, of course, we also talk uncommon. Um, of course, we also talk uncommon. Um, of course, we also talk about de loing. I I referred to this about de loing. I I referred to this about de loing. I I referred to this earlier. Um Mike Estretell on a previous earlier. Um Mike Estretell on a previous earlier. Um Mike Estretell on a previous podcast recommended one week every eight podcast recommended one week every eight podcast recommended one week every eight to be either a significant D lo or even to be either a significant D lo or even to be either a significant D lo or even potentially a full off week. Um and then potentially a full off week. Um and then potentially a full off week. Um and then um a two week, you know, don't even go um a two week, you know, don't even go um a two week, you know, don't even go to the gym. Maybe just, you know, do to the gym. Maybe just, you know, do to the gym. Maybe just, you know, do some other exercises once a year. And some other exercises once a year. And some other exercises once a year. And again, I think that's part physical. I again, I think that's part physical. I again, I think that's part physical. I also think it's part mental. Um, now also think it's part mental. Um, now also think it's part mental. Um, now again, part of that is when you're again, part of that is when you're again, part of that is when you're training at the level that somebody Mike training at the level that somebody Mike training at the level that somebody Mike is at, uh, it's it's probably an is at, uh, it's it's probably an is at, uh, it's it's probably an important thing to consider. At my level important thing to consider. At my level important thing to consider. At my level and for my patients, I typically am not and for my patients, I typically am not and for my patients, I typically am not recommending it because none of us are recommending it because none of us are recommending it because none of us are training quite hard enough where we training quite hard enough where we training quite hard enough where we really need that full D load. life tends really need that full D load. life tends really need that full D load. life tends to offer us dloads through vacations uh to offer us dloads through vacations uh to offer us dloads through vacations uh or and things of that nature anyway or and things of that nature anyway or and things of that nature anyway where you you you might just use your where you you you might just use your where you you you might just use your trip away where you can only use the trip away where you can only use the trip away where you can only use the hotel gym as your as your time to to hotel gym as your as your time to to hotel gym as your as your time to to kind of uh uh de lo. kind of uh uh de lo. kind of uh uh de lo. >> Is there a way for someone to tell maybe >> Is there a way for someone to tell maybe >> Is there a way for someone to tell maybe if they are overtraining or another way if they are overtraining or another way if they are overtraining or another way to think about it is someone who's newer to think about it is someone who's newer to think about it is someone who's newer to training and they're starting to to training and they're starting to to training and they're starting to train. Is there a way or something that train. Is there a way or something that train. Is there a way or something that they can pay attention to to say, "Okay, they can pay attention to to say, "Okay, they can pay attention to to say, "Okay, maybe it is worth dialing it back for a maybe it is worth dialing it back for a maybe it is worth dialing it back for a few days to rest." few days to rest." few days to rest." >> I know this is going to sound very >> I know this is going to sound very >> I know this is going to sound very unscientific, but I I have not found unscientific, but I I have not found unscientific, but I I have not found anything to be a better predictor of anything to be a better predictor of anything to be a better predictor of this than willingness to train. Um, now this than willingness to train. Um, now this than willingness to train. Um, now I do look at other factors. So, I do look at other factors. So, I do look at other factors. So, especially on the cardio front, I'm very especially on the cardio front, I'm very especially on the cardio front, I'm very attuned to my resting heart rate and my attuned to my resting heart rate and my attuned to my resting heart rate and my heart rate variability and my sleep heart rate variability and my sleep heart rate variability and my sleep quality. Um, quality. Um, quality. Um, those things tend to be far less those things tend to be far less those things tend to be far less predictive of my performance in the predictive of my performance in the predictive of my performance in the weight room. Um, but weight room. Um, but weight room. Um, but I think it's important that people learn I think it's important that people learn I think it's important that people learn to differentiate the reluctance to train to differentiate the reluctance to train to differentiate the reluctance to train because I'm really busy and I don't want because I'm really busy and I don't want because I'm really busy and I don't want to get up from my desk or, you know, to get up from my desk or, you know, to get up from my desk or, you know, leave what I'm doing now to go in the leave what I'm doing now to go in the leave what I'm doing now to go in the gym versus, okay, now that I've gotten gym versus, okay, now that I've gotten gym versus, okay, now that I've gotten to the gym and I'm warmed up, I still to the gym and I'm warmed up, I still to the gym and I'm warmed up, I still don't want to train. Those are two don't want to train. Those are two don't want to train. Those are two different things. I often experience the different things. I often experience the different things. I often experience the former. I'm too busy. I'm in a good former. I'm too busy. I'm in a good former. I'm too busy. I'm in a good groove. I don't really want to go and do groove. I don't really want to go and do groove. I don't really want to go and do this thing versus, okay, no, no, I'm this thing versus, okay, no, no, I'm this thing versus, okay, no, no, I'm here in the gym. I've got through my here in the gym. I've got through my here in the gym. I've got through my warm-up sets. I actually feel like warm-up sets. I actually feel like warm-up sets. I actually feel like crushing it. When the when I'm in that crushing it. When the when I'm in that crushing it. When the when I'm in that second set and I still don't want to be second set and I still don't want to be second set and I still don't want to be in there, that's usually a sign I in there, that's usually a sign I in there, that's usually a sign I shouldn't be in there. Um, or if I if shouldn't be in there. Um, or if I if shouldn't be in there. Um, or if I if I'm going to be in there, I should I'm going to be in there, I should I'm going to be in there, I should totally mix it up and do something that totally mix it up and do something that totally mix it up and do something that is totally unrelated. Just work on a is totally unrelated. Just work on a is totally unrelated. Just work on a whole bunch of movement things. Uh, and whole bunch of movement things. Uh, and whole bunch of movement things. Uh, and just sort of get out of it and come back just sort of get out of it and come back just sort of get out of it and come back for another for another day. Um so that for another for another day. Um so that for another for another day. Um so that that's that to me is I I think very that's that to me is I I think very that's that to me is I I think very important. I will add a caveat to that important. I will add a caveat to that important. I will add a caveat to that which is um which is um which is um you h that that technique tends to be you h that that technique tends to be you h that that technique tends to be more applicable the more experienced you more applicable the more experienced you more applicable the more experienced you are. So you know if I took a person are. So you know if I took a person are. So you know if I took a person who's never exercised and said hey just who's never exercised and said hey just who's never exercised and said hey just use your interest in exercising as a use your interest in exercising as a use your interest in exercising as a metric they might never exercise. So uh metric they might never exercise. So uh metric they might never exercise. So uh uh unfortunately you you have to sort of uh unfortunately you you have to sort of uh unfortunately you you have to sort of um develop enough experience to be able um develop enough experience to be able um develop enough experience to be able to use that. to use that. to use that. >> One question we get commonly asked which >> One question we get commonly asked which >> One question we get commonly asked which I think is just due to the rise of I think is just due to the rise of I think is just due to the rise of wearables that people have is where does wearables that people have is where does wearables that people have is where does HRV fit into understanding where HRV fit into understanding where HRV fit into understanding where someone's at in if they should be someone's at in if they should be someone's at in if they should be training intensity day off etc. training intensity day off etc. training intensity day off etc. >> Yeah, we've certainly talked a lot about >> Yeah, we've certainly talked a lot about >> Yeah, we've certainly talked a lot about about heart rate variability. Um, about heart rate variability. Um, about heart rate variability. Um, and I do think that um, the absolute and I do think that um, the absolute and I do think that um, the absolute number comparing yours to your friends number comparing yours to your friends number comparing yours to your friends is is not relevant, but comparing yours is is not relevant, but comparing yours is is not relevant, but comparing yours to yourself, provided you have a an to yourself, provided you have a an to yourself, provided you have a an accurate way to measure it. Again, I've accurate way to measure it. Again, I've accurate way to measure it. Again, I've talked a lot about how I like using a talked a lot about how I like using a talked a lot about how I like using a device called Morpheus. device called Morpheus. device called Morpheus. Um, again, no affiliation with Morpheus, Um, again, no affiliation with Morpheus, Um, again, no affiliation with Morpheus, but I like it because um, you use either but I like it because um, you use either but I like it because um, you use either a chest strap or an armband where the a chest strap or an armband where the a chest strap or an armband where the optical sensor is is in the ancubital optical sensor is is in the ancubital optical sensor is is in the ancubital fossa. So you're actually getting a very fossa. So you're actually getting a very fossa. So you're actually getting a very accurate measurement. Uh things on the accurate measurement. Uh things on the accurate measurement. Uh things on the wrist and hand are not are not nearly as wrist and hand are not are not nearly as wrist and hand are not are not nearly as accurate. So for for that setting, you accurate. So for for that setting, you accurate. So for for that setting, you know, seeing your HRV consistently low, know, seeing your HRV consistently low, know, seeing your HRV consistently low, especially if accompanied by high especially if accompanied by high especially if accompanied by high resting heart rate, that usually tells resting heart rate, that usually tells resting heart rate, that usually tells you you're fatigued. Um low you you're fatigued. Um low you you're fatigued. Um low parasympathetic flow, high sympathetic parasympathetic flow, high sympathetic parasympathetic flow, high sympathetic flow. Um again, it doesn't mean you're flow. Um again, it doesn't mean you're flow. Um again, it doesn't mean you're going to have a bad workout. By the way, going to have a bad workout. By the way, going to have a bad workout. By the way, I've I've actually paradoxically had I've I've actually paradoxically had I've I've actually paradoxically had some insanely good workouts. um waking some insanely good workouts. um waking some insanely good workouts. um waking up on the heels of high sympathetic up on the heels of high sympathetic up on the heels of high sympathetic drive. Why? Because that at least drive. Why? Because that at least drive. Why? Because that at least transiently gives me a big boost, but transiently gives me a big boost, but transiently gives me a big boost, but chronically that's problematic. And so chronically that's problematic. And so chronically that's problematic. And so chronically one has to be mindful of how chronically one has to be mindful of how chronically one has to be mindful of how you meter that experience and finding. you meter that experience and finding. you meter that experience and finding. And let's say outside of kind of what we And let's say outside of kind of what we And let's say outside of kind of what we talked about HRV and willingness to talked about HRV and willingness to talked about HRV and willingness to train, are there any other, let's call train, are there any other, let's call train, are there any other, let's call them warning signs that if someone's in them warning signs that if someone's in them warning signs that if someone's in the gym, they're very willing to train, the gym, they're very willing to train, the gym, they're very willing to train, excited about it, but if they're seeing excited about it, but if they're seeing excited about it, but if they're seeing certain things, feeling certain things, certain things, feeling certain things, certain things, feeling certain things, they should kind of think to themselves, they should kind of think to themselves, they should kind of think to themselves, okay, maybe today is not a day to push. okay, maybe today is not a day to push. okay, maybe today is not a day to push. I would say persistent muscle soreness. I would say persistent muscle soreness. I would say persistent muscle soreness. Um, like you're not getting that, you're Um, like you're not getting that, you're Um, like you're not getting that, you're not recovering, right? So, so you're not recovering, right? So, so you're not recovering, right? So, so you're getting the good quote unquote burn that getting the good quote unquote burn that getting the good quote unquote burn that normally accompanies maybe a workout a normally accompanies maybe a workout a normally accompanies maybe a workout a day or two after, but it's never going day or two after, but it's never going day or two after, but it's never going away. It it might be that you really away. It it might be that you really away. It it might be that you really need to take a rest uh at least from need to take a rest uh at least from need to take a rest uh at least from those body parts. Um, another one that those body parts. Um, another one that those body parts. Um, another one that I'm pretty mindful of is just decreased I'm pretty mindful of is just decreased I'm pretty mindful of is just decreased performance. Um, and because I log a lot performance. Um, and because I log a lot performance. Um, and because I log a lot of my data, especially on the bike, I'm of my data, especially on the bike, I'm of my data, especially on the bike, I'm very cognizant to the meta cycles I go very cognizant to the meta cycles I go very cognizant to the meta cycles I go through in the year. And uh I sort of through in the year. And uh I sort of through in the year. And uh I sort of have a sense of like for example because have a sense of like for example because have a sense of like for example because I live in Austin, this is not going to I live in Austin, this is not going to I live in Austin, this is not going to be surprising to anybody who's been here be surprising to anybody who's been here be surprising to anybody who's been here in the summer, my performance on the in the summer, my performance on the in the summer, my performance on the bike actually goes down in the summer. bike actually goes down in the summer. bike actually goes down in the summer. Um probably by 57%. And this is, you Um probably by 57%. And this is, you Um probably by 57%. And this is, you know, I've been here 5 years now, so know, I've been here 5 years now, so know, I've been here 5 years now, so it's it's a pretty reproducible finding. it's it's a pretty reproducible finding. it's it's a pretty reproducible finding. And I I believe it is solely just due to And I I believe it is solely just due to And I I believe it is solely just due to the heat, right? Even though I'm still the heat, right? Even though I'm still the heat, right? Even though I'm still going to go out early in the morning to going to go out early in the morning to going to go out early in the morning to do a ride, like it doesn't matter. It's do a ride, like it doesn't matter. It's do a ride, like it doesn't matter. It's like the difference between riding at 85 like the difference between riding at 85 like the difference between riding at 85 degrees and riding in the winter if it's degrees and riding in the winter if it's degrees and riding in the winter if it's 55 degrees is huge in terms of V2 max 55 degrees is huge in terms of V2 max 55 degrees is huge in terms of V2 max performance. Um so you know but knowing performance. Um so you know but knowing performance. Um so you know but knowing absent or in addition to those changes absent or in addition to those changes absent or in addition to those changes are there other decreases um in are there other decreases um in are there other decreases um in performance and again here we're talking performance and again here we're talking performance and again here we're talking about being in the gym. I think that's about being in the gym. I think that's about being in the gym. I think that's important. Um I think you also have to important. Um I think you also have to important. Um I think you also have to be very mindful of pain that that is be very mindful of pain that that is be very mindful of pain that that is indicative of potential injury. So, you indicative of potential injury. So, you indicative of potential injury. So, you know, joints that are hurting, uh things know, joints that are hurting, uh things know, joints that are hurting, uh things that are hurting that hurt more with that are hurting that hurt more with that are hurting that hurt more with use. Uh those would be those would be uh use. Uh those would be those would be uh use. Uh those would be those would be uh things I' I'd care a lot about. Um things I' I'd care a lot about. Um things I' I'd care a lot about. Um again, I I I there are probably other again, I I I there are probably other again, I I I there are probably other things. The problem is other changes things. The problem is other changes things. The problem is other changes like mood um and irritability, which like mood um and irritability, which like mood um and irritability, which which can certainly indicate which can certainly indicate which can certainly indicate overtraining. Um they they are so overtraining. Um they they are so overtraining. Um they they are so non-specific that it's very difficult. I non-specific that it's very difficult. I non-specific that it's very difficult. I think you have to just think you have to just think you have to just kind of try to gushalt um through kind of try to gushalt um through kind of try to gushalt um through thinking about these things. thinking about these things. thinking about these things. >> A question that we get asked a lot about >> A question that we get asked a lot about >> A question that we get asked a lot about especially when it relates to newer especially when it relates to newer especially when it relates to newer people to exercise, right? So if people to exercise, right? So if people to exercise, right? So if someone's listening and they're like, someone's listening and they're like, someone's listening and they're like, "Look, I haven't been resistance "Look, I haven't been resistance "Look, I haven't been resistance training. I want to start. I'm really training. I want to start. I'm really training. I want to start. I'm really worried about getting injured." Right? worried about getting injured." Right? worried about getting injured." Right? Because you often talk a lot about the Because you often talk a lot about the Because you often talk a lot about the benefits of HellSpan not being injured benefits of HellSpan not being injured benefits of HellSpan not being injured and the ramifications that can have. you and the ramifications that can have. you and the ramifications that can have. you have a patient come to you and say, have a patient come to you and say, have a patient come to you and say, "Hey, I'm willing to do this. What are "Hey, I'm willing to do this. What are "Hey, I'm willing to do this. What are some ways that I can start this in hopes some ways that I can start this in hopes some ways that I can start this in hopes of not getting injured and doing this of not getting injured and doing this of not getting injured and doing this for a long time?" What advice are you for a long time?" What advice are you for a long time?" What advice are you giving them? giving them? giving them? >> It's in line with what we're saying >> It's in line with what we're saying >> It's in line with what we're saying here, right? Which is I think everybody, here, right? Which is I think everybody, here, right? Which is I think everybody, but but certainly a beginner or somebody but but certainly a beginner or somebody but but certainly a beginner or somebody coming back to it after a significant coming back to it after a significant coming back to it after a significant period of time off. So, someone who period of time off. So, someone who period of time off. So, someone who might have been the high school football might have been the high school football might have been the high school football star who lived in the weight room, but star who lived in the weight room, but star who lived in the weight room, but now they're 40 and they're kind of now they're 40 and they're kind of now they're 40 and they're kind of coming back to it. Act as though you've coming back to it. Act as though you've coming back to it. Act as though you've never done this before. Focus on injury never done this before. Focus on injury never done this before. Focus on injury prevention. Uh work on gradual prevention. Uh work on gradual prevention. Uh work on gradual progression. Learn foundational progression. Learn foundational progression. Learn foundational movements. Learn correct form. Um movements. Learn correct form. Um movements. Learn correct form. Um joint injuries often result from high joint injuries often result from high joint injuries often result from high load fatigue. Both of these. Um so you load fatigue. Both of these. Um so you load fatigue. Both of these. Um so you you you you want to have controlled you you you want to have controlled you you you want to have controlled movements both on the eccentric and movements both on the eccentric and movements both on the eccentric and concentric side. So even if you're not concentric side. So even if you're not concentric side. So even if you're not exaggerating concentric, if you're just exaggerating concentric, if you're just exaggerating concentric, if you're just doing, you know, one to one tempo or one doing, you know, one to one tempo or one doing, you know, one to one tempo or one to two tempo, still controlling it. Um I to two tempo, still controlling it. Um I to two tempo, still controlling it. Um I think that assisted movements are really think that assisted movements are really think that assisted movements are really really helpful. Um so even, you know, on really helpful. Um so even, you know, on really helpful. Um so even, you know, on pull-ups and things of that nature. pull-ups and things of that nature. pull-ups and things of that nature. There's enormous value in doing pull-ups There's enormous value in doing pull-ups There's enormous value in doing pull-ups with bands. um so that you can get into with bands. um so that you can get into with bands. um so that you can get into a complete rep range. Use proper a complete rep range. Use proper a complete rep range. Use proper scapular control um and not injure your scapular control um and not injure your scapular control um and not injure your shoulder or your elbow because you have shoulder or your elbow because you have shoulder or your elbow because you have to cheat because it's just such a heavy to cheat because it's just such a heavy to cheat because it's just such a heavy movement. Um again, doing lots of things movement. Um again, doing lots of things movement. Um again, doing lots of things with body weight until you figure out with body weight until you figure out with body weight until you figure out the the the right position to be in. Um, the the the right position to be in. Um, the the the right position to be in. Um, again, I've talked about some of these again, I've talked about some of these again, I've talked about some of these before, but relying more on eccentric before, but relying more on eccentric before, but relying more on eccentric load to keep the weight down. Um, and I load to keep the weight down. Um, and I load to keep the weight down. Um, and I think another very important principle think another very important principle think another very important principle for everybody, certainly something I for everybody, certainly something I for everybody, certainly something I spend a lot of time adhering to, is is spend a lot of time adhering to, is is spend a lot of time adhering to, is is is using um unilateral things. So, uh, is using um unilateral things. So, uh, is using um unilateral things. So, uh, so much of what I do for my legs, I'm so much of what I do for my legs, I'm so much of what I do for my legs, I'm just trying to think, one, just trying to think, one, just trying to think, one, I would say 50% of everything I'm doing I would say 50% of everything I'm doing I would say 50% of everything I'm doing on a leg day is single leg. uh which on a leg day is single leg. uh which on a leg day is single leg. uh which means I'm doing my left and right leg means I'm doing my left and right leg means I'm doing my left and right leg are doing separate things which is are doing separate things which is are doing separate things which is allowing me to actually use a fraction allowing me to actually use a fraction allowing me to actually use a fraction of the weight. [snorts] Um but I'm still of the weight. [snorts] Um but I'm still of the weight. [snorts] Um but I'm still you know obviously getting the the same you know obviously getting the the same you know obviously getting the the same amount of work. Um it also develops I amount of work. Um it also develops I amount of work. Um it also develops I think a better coordination for many think a better coordination for many think a better coordination for many things. So so I think those are kind of things. So so I think those are kind of things. So so I think those are kind of some of the principles that are that are some of the principles that are that are some of the principles that are that are helpful here. helpful here. helpful here. >> Moving on to now things outside of the >> Moving on to now things outside of the >> Moving on to now things outside of the gym specifically nutrition. So obviously gym specifically nutrition. So obviously gym specifically nutrition. So obviously you've talked in the past nutrition is you've talked in the past nutrition is you've talked in the past nutrition is an important factor as it relates to an important factor as it relates to an important factor as it relates to muscle growth. So how do you think about muscle growth. So how do you think about muscle growth. So how do you think about protein which is something you've talked protein which is something you've talked protein which is something you've talked about before for variety of reasons as about before for variety of reasons as about before for variety of reasons as it relates to growing muscle and how it relates to growing muscle and how it relates to growing muscle and how much protein should people get? much protein should people get? much protein should people get? >> Again the recommended dietary allowance >> Again the recommended dietary allowance >> Again the recommended dietary allowance the RDA is 0.8 8 g per kilogram per day. the RDA is 0.8 8 g per kilogram per day. the RDA is 0.8 8 g per kilogram per day. Um, that's sort of the lower threshold Um, that's sort of the lower threshold Um, that's sort of the lower threshold to prevent malnutrition. to prevent malnutrition. to prevent malnutrition. Um, it's it's it's generally very Um, it's it's it's generally very Um, it's it's it's generally very inadequate for trying to build muscle or inadequate for trying to build muscle or inadequate for trying to build muscle or even [clears throat] preserve muscle even [clears throat] preserve muscle even [clears throat] preserve muscle once you age. So, if if you're if you're once you age. So, if if you're if you're once you age. So, if if you're if you're trying to do what we're talking about trying to do what we're talking about trying to do what we're talking about here, you're going to want to be in the here, you're going to want to be in the here, you're going to want to be in the 1.6 to 2.4 4 gram per kilogram per day. 1.6 to 2.4 4 gram per kilogram per day. 1.6 to 2.4 4 gram per kilogram per day. Um kind of call that 08 to one gram per Um kind of call that 08 to one gram per Um kind of call that 08 to one gram per pound of body weight. Um people who are pound of body weight. Um people who are pound of body weight. Um people who are less active and older might even need to less active and older might even need to less active and older might even need to be higher due to anabolic resistance. So be higher due to anabolic resistance. So be higher due to anabolic resistance. So easy rule of thumb, roughly a gram per easy rule of thumb, roughly a gram per easy rule of thumb, roughly a gram per pound of body weight. Um if you're older pound of body weight. Um if you're older pound of body weight. Um if you're older than 60, you might even need a little than 60, you might even need a little than 60, you might even need a little bit more than that. Um, again, if you're bit more than that. Um, again, if you're bit more than that. Um, again, if you're a little bit less than that, it's not a little bit less than that, it's not a little bit less than that, it's not the end of the world. I ju when I see the end of the world. I ju when I see the end of the world. I ju when I see but if but what you don't want to see is but if but what you don't want to see is but if but what you don't want to see is somebody at 0.4 g per pound or.5 g per somebody at 0.4 g per pound or.5 g per somebody at 0.4 g per pound or.5 g per pound of body weight. I think that's pound of body weight. I think that's pound of body weight. I think that's almost certainly uh insufficient to to almost certainly uh insufficient to to almost certainly uh insufficient to to meet the demands of aging. meet the demands of aging. meet the demands of aging. >> Another question we get often asked >> Another question we get often asked >> Another question we get often asked types of protein. Are there types of types of protein. Are there types of types of protein. Are there types of protein that matter more than others? protein that matter more than others? protein that matter more than others? >> Yeah. So there are, you know, proteins >> Yeah. So there are, you know, proteins >> Yeah. So there are, you know, proteins are made up of 20 amino acids. nine of are made up of 20 amino acids. nine of are made up of 20 amino acids. nine of them are essential so the body can't them are essential so the body can't them are essential so the body can't synthesize them. So those are the synthesize them. So those are the synthesize them. So those are the highest priority is getting essential highest priority is getting essential highest priority is getting essential amino acids. Um leucine being one of amino acids. Um leucine being one of amino acids. Um leucine being one of them also turns out to be a very them also turns out to be a very them also turns out to be a very important amino acid at triggering important amino acid at triggering important amino acid at triggering muscle protein synthesis um or MPS as we muscle protein synthesis um or MPS as we muscle protein synthesis um or MPS as we call it. Um and so we're really looking call it. Um and so we're really looking call it. Um and so we're really looking at the completeness of a protein source. at the completeness of a protein source. at the completeness of a protein source. So how many of the essential amino acids So how many of the essential amino acids So how many of the essential amino acids does it have? What's the digestibility? does it have? What's the digestibility? does it have? What's the digestibility? Um and when it comes to those metrics um Um and when it comes to those metrics um Um and when it comes to those metrics um animal proteins animal proteins animal proteins generally if not completely outdo animal generally if not completely outdo animal generally if not completely outdo animal proteins uh for completeness and proteins uh for completeness and proteins uh for completeness and digestibility. So really the big three digestibility. So really the big three digestibility. So really the big three that we think of are dairy, eggs and that we think of are dairy, eggs and that we think of are dairy, eggs and beef. Um, so if you have a diet that's, beef. Um, so if you have a diet that's, beef. Um, so if you have a diet that's, you know, that's giving you sufficient you know, that's giving you sufficient you know, that's giving you sufficient servings of dairy and beef and eggs, you servings of dairy and beef and eggs, you servings of dairy and beef and eggs, you can be 100% sure you are getting can be 100% sure you are getting can be 100% sure you are getting sufficient amounts of protein just by sufficient amounts of protein just by sufficient amounts of protein just by hitting your volume numbers. Now, I hitting your volume numbers. Now, I hitting your volume numbers. Now, I realize that many people listening to us realize that many people listening to us realize that many people listening to us either don't fancy those foods or for either don't fancy those foods or for either don't fancy those foods or for other reasons might choose to abstain other reasons might choose to abstain other reasons might choose to abstain from them altogether. The good news is from them altogether. The good news is from them altogether. The good news is it's okay. You don't have to consume it's okay. You don't have to consume it's okay. You don't have to consume animal products to meet your goals. Um, animal products to meet your goals. Um, animal products to meet your goals. Um, you can indeed achieve these goals with you can indeed achieve these goals with you can indeed achieve these goals with plant-based proteins. It will just plant-based proteins. It will just plant-based proteins. It will just require two things. It will require require two things. It will require require two things. It will require probably eating more protein and probably eating more protein and probably eating more protein and probably cooking the protein whenever probably cooking the protein whenever probably cooking the protein whenever you can to increase the digestibility you can to increase the digestibility you can to increase the digestibility and absorption of it. Um, we often and absorption of it. Um, we often and absorption of it. Um, we often recommend with patients who heavily recommend with patients who heavily recommend with patients who heavily favor plant-based proteins to, um, and favor plant-based proteins to, um, and favor plant-based proteins to, um, and by the way, plant, you know, there, as by the way, plant, you know, there, as by the way, plant, you know, there, as you can appreciate, there's variability you can appreciate, there's variability you can appreciate, there's variability in here, right? So, there's people who in here, right? So, there's people who in here, right? So, there's people who don't want beef protein, but they're don't want beef protein, but they're don't want beef protein, but they're still happy to consume eggs or dairy still happy to consume eggs or dairy still happy to consume eggs or dairy protein and and vice versa. So there protein and and vice versa. So there protein and and vice versa. So there there's lots of ways around this, but if there's lots of ways around this, but if there's lots of ways around this, but if we're talking about somebody who's who's we're talking about somebody who's who's we're talking about somebody who's who's really only going to be interested in really only going to be interested in really only going to be interested in plant proteins, um we tend to get them plant proteins, um we tend to get them plant proteins, um we tend to get them to try to really focus on hitting the to try to really focus on hitting the to try to really focus on hitting the right amounts of of some of the right amounts of of some of the right amounts of of some of the essentials. And and and I'm not going to essentials. And and and I'm not going to essentials. And and and I'm not going to lie, it's not easy. It's not the optimal lie, it's not easy. It's not the optimal lie, it's not easy. It's not the optimal way to do it. Um but but if if you're way to do it. Um but but if if you're way to do it. Um but but if if you're willing to make the choice, then I I willing to make the choice, then I I willing to make the choice, then I I think, you know, you have to put a think, you know, you have to put a think, you know, you have to put a little bit of effort into that. little bit of effort into that. little bit of effort into that. >> What about protein timing? How do you >> What about protein timing? How do you >> What about protein timing? How do you think about the timing of protein think about the timing of protein think about the timing of protein throughout a day as someone is thinking throughout a day as someone is thinking throughout a day as someone is thinking about optimizing their protein intake? about optimizing their protein intake? about optimizing their protein intake? >> You know, I think the data on this are >> You know, I think the data on this are >> You know, I think the data on this are still evolving and I think the way I still evolving and I think the way I still evolving and I think the way I would have answered this question two would have answered this question two would have answered this question two years ago is probably different than the years ago is probably different than the years ago is probably different than the way I would answer it today. And I way I would answer it today. And I way I would answer it today. And I honestly think it depends a lot on the honestly think it depends a lot on the honestly think it depends a lot on the protein source. So a lot of times protein source. So a lot of times protein source. So a lot of times studies that are looking at this are, studies that are looking at this are, studies that are looking at this are, you know, they're using radiolabeled um you know, they're using radiolabeled um you know, they're using radiolabeled um isotopes of amino acids in liquid form isotopes of amino acids in liquid form isotopes of amino acids in liquid form and they're measuring muscle protein and they're measuring muscle protein and they're measuring muscle protein synthesis and those studies tend to find synthesis and those studies tend to find synthesis and those studies tend to find that you want multiple small protein that you want multiple small protein that you want multiple small protein meals. Um, you certainly want to get meals. Um, you certainly want to get meals. Um, you certainly want to get your first do bololis of protein right your first do bololis of protein right your first do bololis of protein right after working out and then you, you after working out and then you, you after working out and then you, you know, you but you can only incorporate, know, you but you can only incorporate, know, you but you can only incorporate, you know, 30 or 40 of those grams and so you know, 30 or 40 of those grams and so you know, 30 or 40 of those grams and so you need to be continually reactivating you need to be continually reactivating you need to be continually reactivating over time. Again, that might be true for over time. Again, that might be true for over time. Again, that might be true for this the the situation in which that's this the the situation in which that's this the the situation in which that's done. We've also seen that casein versus done. We've also seen that casein versus done. We've also seen that casein versus whey, which is also a dairy protein, uh, whey, which is also a dairy protein, uh, whey, which is also a dairy protein, uh, produces a much longer a much longer and produces a much longer a much longer and produces a much longer a much longer and slower delivery of the amino acids. Um, slower delivery of the amino acids. Um, slower delivery of the amino acids. Um, and and so I tend to think a lot less and and so I tend to think a lot less and and so I tend to think a lot less about this than I used to. I used to about this than I used to. I used to about this than I used to. I used to really uh worry about exactly when I was really uh worry about exactly when I was really uh worry about exactly when I was um when I was consuming protein. Now um when I was consuming protein. Now um when I was consuming protein. Now that I don't consume like whey protein that I don't consume like whey protein that I don't consume like whey protein shakes that much, if if at all, and I shakes that much, if if at all, and I shakes that much, if if at all, and I tend to eat more of my protein, tend to eat more of my protein, tend to eat more of my protein, I'm like, you know, I'm just trying to I'm like, you know, I'm just trying to I'm like, you know, I'm just trying to get 50 40 to 50 grams of protein get 50 40 to 50 grams of protein get 50 40 to 50 grams of protein uh you know, four times a day um through uh you know, four times a day um through uh you know, four times a day um through a meal or snack and I'm not thinking a meal or snack and I'm not thinking a meal or snack and I'm not thinking that much more about it. Um, what I try that much more about it. Um, what I try that much more about it. Um, what I try to do is avoid lower sources, uh, like to do is avoid lower sources, uh, like to do is avoid lower sources, uh, like lower doses. So, I'm not just going to lower doses. So, I'm not just going to lower doses. So, I'm not just going to be out there eating 10 grams of protein be out there eating 10 grams of protein be out there eating 10 grams of protein in a sitting, um, and nothing else. Now, in a sitting, um, and nothing else. Now, in a sitting, um, and nothing else. Now, again, we've covered this so much in one again, we've covered this so much in one again, we've covered this so much in one of our previous newsletters that I think of our previous newsletters that I think of our previous newsletters that I think again, just as everything that we're again, just as everything that we're again, just as everything that we're talking about here, the show notes will talking about here, the show notes will talking about here, the show notes will have a lot more detail on this. have a lot more detail on this. have a lot more detail on this. One question we get asked a lot about I One question we get asked a lot about I One question we get asked a lot about I think as you kind of mentioned like this think as you kind of mentioned like this think as you kind of mentioned like this field is evolving but I think one thing field is evolving but I think one thing field is evolving but I think one thing that sticks with people is the that sticks with people is the that sticks with people is the importance of postworkout protein. importance of postworkout protein. importance of postworkout protein. How necessary is that? How necessary is that? How necessary is that? >> Again I think it's less important than >> Again I think it's less important than >> Again I think it's less important than we used to think. Um I'm I am going to we used to think. Um I'm I am going to we used to think. Um I'm I am going to consume protein pretty much right after consume protein pretty much right after consume protein pretty much right after a workout but that's also because I'm a workout but that's also because I'm a workout but that's also because I'm not consuming protein typically before not consuming protein typically before not consuming protein typically before the workout cuz I'm working out in the the workout cuz I'm working out in the the workout cuz I'm working out in the morning. But that window, that anabolic morning. But that window, that anabolic morning. But that window, that anabolic window is pretty broad. I mean, four to window is pretty broad. I mean, four to window is pretty broad. I mean, four to six hours. So, I don't think it's six hours. So, I don't think it's six hours. So, I don't think it's something one needs to lose sleep over. something one needs to lose sleep over. something one needs to lose sleep over. Uh, your hunger will probably dictate it Uh, your hunger will probably dictate it Uh, your hunger will probably dictate it anyway because you're going to be hungry anyway because you're going to be hungry anyway because you're going to be hungry within an hour or two after a workout, within an hour or two after a workout, within an hour or two after a workout, although probably not right after. Um, although probably not right after. Um, although probably not right after. Um, so I don't think you need to stop the so I don't think you need to stop the so I don't think you need to stop the press. I don't think you need to, you press. I don't think you need to, you press. I don't think you need to, you know, stop for breakfast right after the know, stop for breakfast right after the know, stop for breakfast right after the workout and miss, you know, and be late workout and miss, you know, and be late workout and miss, you know, and be late for work or whatever. I think you can for work or whatever. I think you can for work or whatever. I think you can you can certainly wait an hour or two. you can certainly wait an hour or two. you can certainly wait an hour or two. Um and and I I think uh again that Um and and I I think uh again that Um and and I I think uh again that especially with um with what we especially with um with what we especially with um with what we understand today based on that anabolic understand today based on that anabolic understand today based on that anabolic window. window. window. >> Another piece of this that we get asked >> Another piece of this that we get asked >> Another piece of this that we get asked a lot about is let's say someone is a lot about is let's say someone is a lot about is let's say someone is timerestricted eating or fasting quote timerestricted eating or fasting quote timerestricted eating or fasting quote unquote throughout a given day, right? unquote throughout a given day, right? unquote throughout a given day, right? So they're only consuming food for a few So they're only consuming food for a few So they're only consuming food for a few hours throughout the day. And then we hours throughout the day. And then we hours throughout the day. And then we also have people who are fasting for also have people who are fasting for also have people who are fasting for multiple days. So how does fasting multiple days. So how does fasting multiple days. So how does fasting caloric restriction whether within a day caloric restriction whether within a day caloric restriction whether within a day or multiple days impact muscle mass? And or multiple days impact muscle mass? And or multiple days impact muscle mass? And how should people who are using those how should people who are using those how should people who are using those tools think about that so they don't tools think about that so they don't tools think about that so they don't potentially lose too much muscle. Some potentially lose too much muscle. Some potentially lose too much muscle. Some of these things are going to be less of these things are going to be less of these things are going to be less relevant if you're using high amounts of relevant if you're using high amounts of relevant if you're using high amounts of anabolic steroids where you can kind of anabolic steroids where you can kind of anabolic steroids where you can kind of fight the inertia of this more. But if fight the inertia of this more. But if fight the inertia of this more. But if we limit this to people who are either we limit this to people who are either we limit this to people who are either not taking anabolic steroids or who if not taking anabolic steroids or who if not taking anabolic steroids or who if they are, you know, they're doing it they are, you know, they're doing it they are, you know, they're doing it under um physiologic replacement levels, under um physiologic replacement levels, under um physiologic replacement levels, um it's very difficult to maintain um it's very difficult to maintain um it's very difficult to maintain muscle mass as you are losing weight. So muscle mass as you are losing weight. So muscle mass as you are losing weight. So if you create enough of a caloric if you create enough of a caloric if you create enough of a caloric deficit, regardless of how you do it, deficit, regardless of how you do it, deficit, regardless of how you do it, fasting, intermittent fasting, you know, fasting, intermittent fasting, you know, fasting, intermittent fasting, you know, timerestricted feeding, whatever you timerestricted feeding, whatever you timerestricted feeding, whatever you want to call it, anything that creates a want to call it, anything that creates a want to call it, anything that creates a caloric deficit sufficient enough to caloric deficit sufficient enough to caloric deficit sufficient enough to induce weight, weight loss is going to induce weight, weight loss is going to induce weight, weight loss is going to put muscle mass at risk. Now, what can put muscle mass at risk. Now, what can put muscle mass at risk. Now, what can you do to minimize that? You can meet you do to minimize that? You can meet you do to minimize that? You can meet your protein needs of approximately one your protein needs of approximately one your protein needs of approximately one gram per pound of body weight and gram per pound of body weight and gram per pound of body weight and maintain high levels of resistance maintain high levels of resistance maintain high levels of resistance training. Um training. Um training. Um now again now again now again when I was doing a lot of fasting um when I was doing a lot of fasting um when I was doing a lot of fasting um obviously I was creating an enormous obviously I was creating an enormous obviously I was creating an enormous caloric deficit that's you know I was caloric deficit that's you know I was caloric deficit that's you know I was not eating a thing. Um so I was not not eating a thing. Um so I was not not eating a thing. Um so I was not getting any protein. I did resistance getting any protein. I did resistance getting any protein. I did resistance train but again all the resistance train but again all the resistance train but again all the resistance training in the world wouldn't have training in the world wouldn't have training in the world wouldn't have mattered. By the way had I [snorts] mattered. By the way had I [snorts] mattered. By the way had I [snorts] still consumed still consumed still consumed 200 g of protein for a whopping total of 200 g of protein for a whopping total of 200 g of protein for a whopping total of 800 calories per day. I'm not convinced 800 calories per day. I'm not convinced 800 calories per day. I'm not convinced I would have been able to have fought I would have been able to have fought I would have been able to have fought off much of the muscle mass loss because off much of the muscle mass loss because off much of the muscle mass loss because that is still such a low calorie amount that is still such a low calorie amount that is still such a low calorie amount that I was going to, you know, I'm in that I was going to, you know, I'm in that I was going to, you know, I'm in such a caloric deficit that I was going such a caloric deficit that I was going such a caloric deficit that I was going to lose weight. Most of that protein to lose weight. Most of that protein to lose weight. Most of that protein would have been converted into glucose. would have been converted into glucose. would have been converted into glucose. I suspect I don't think I would have had I suspect I don't think I would have had I suspect I don't think I would have had enough anabolic stimulus to to maintain enough anabolic stimulus to to maintain enough anabolic stimulus to to maintain muscle mass. So, um, you know, I would muscle mass. So, um, you know, I would muscle mass. So, um, you know, I would say that when you look at bodybuilders say that when you look at bodybuilders say that when you look at bodybuilders who again are the masters of this, who again are the masters of this, who again are the masters of this, they're not going through enormously they're not going through enormously they're not going through enormously rapid periods of weight loss. And that's rapid periods of weight loss. And that's rapid periods of weight loss. And that's generally what's allowing them to generally what's allowing them to generally what's allowing them to preserve lean mass in addition to, of preserve lean mass in addition to, of preserve lean mass in addition to, of course, the use in is is often the case course, the use in is is often the case course, the use in is is often the case in in untested bodybuilding, the use of in in untested bodybuilding, the use of in in untested bodybuilding, the use of of anabolic steroids. Even if you look of anabolic steroids. Even if you look of anabolic steroids. Even if you look at people who are in tested categories at people who are in tested categories at people who are in tested categories of bodybuilding where they're they're of bodybuilding where they're they're of bodybuilding where they're they're they're drug-free, um I still think they're drug-free, um I still think they're drug-free, um I still think their fidious attention to diet and how their fidious attention to diet and how their fidious attention to diet and how they're doing it is um uh is is what they're doing it is um uh is is what they're doing it is um uh is is what allows them to do this. Now again, there allows them to do this. Now again, there allows them to do this. Now again, there are data that suggests that protein uh are data that suggests that protein uh are data that suggests that protein uh intake by itself can be uh proactive and intake by itself can be uh proactive and intake by itself can be uh proactive and we know this, right? So again, I think we know this, right? So again, I think we know this, right? So again, I think it was I think it was Luke Vanlon who it was I think it was Luke Vanlon who it was I think it was Luke Vanlon who had this great analogy of the bricks are had this great analogy of the bricks are had this great analogy of the bricks are the brick layers, right? So protein by the brick layers, right? So protein by the brick layers, right? So protein by itself is able to induce muscle protein itself is able to induce muscle protein itself is able to induce muscle protein synthesis again in the context of modest synthesis again in the context of modest synthesis again in the context of modest calories. Um, so there there are some calories. Um, so there there are some calories. Um, so there there are some studies we'll link to that will show studies we'll link to that will show studies we'll link to that will show that even with significant caloric that even with significant caloric that even with significant caloric restriction, not as extreme as I just restriction, not as extreme as I just restriction, not as extreme as I just described, but say a 30 to 40% caloric described, but say a 30 to 40% caloric described, but say a 30 to 40% caloric restriction, sufficient enough protein restriction, sufficient enough protein restriction, sufficient enough protein and resistance training um is able to um and resistance training um is able to um and resistance training um is able to um maintain some amount of muscle mass and maintain some amount of muscle mass and maintain some amount of muscle mass and maintain some levels of muscle protein maintain some levels of muscle protein maintain some levels of muscle protein synthesis. So again, it can be done. synthesis. So again, it can be done. synthesis. So again, it can be done. It's a it's a needle that is not trivial It's a it's a needle that is not trivial It's a it's a needle that is not trivial to thread and for most people losing to thread and for most people losing to thread and for most people losing weight especially if you're losing a lot weight especially if you're losing a lot weight especially if you're losing a lot and or losing it quickly uh you're going and or losing it quickly uh you're going and or losing it quickly uh you're going to probably give up some lean mass. to probably give up some lean mass. to probably give up some lean mass. >> And Peter then beyond protein any other >> And Peter then beyond protein any other >> And Peter then beyond protein any other aspects of nutrition that someone should aspects of nutrition that someone should aspects of nutrition that someone should be aware of as they're using to think be aware of as they're using to think be aware of as they're using to think about supporting muscle gain? about supporting muscle gain? about supporting muscle gain? >> Yeah. Um obviously hydration matters. >> Yeah. Um obviously hydration matters. >> Yeah. Um obviously hydration matters. sounds silly but g given that muscles sounds silly but g given that muscles sounds silly but g given that muscles themselves are made up of 70% water themselves are made up of 70% water themselves are made up of 70% water which explains why creatine uh uh plays which explains why creatine uh uh plays which explains why creatine uh uh plays plays a role here um you know so so so plays a role here um you know so so so plays a role here um you know so so so I'd say you know hydration creatine use I'd say you know hydration creatine use I'd say you know hydration creatine use um and recovery um so so fail failure to um and recovery um so so fail failure to um and recovery um so so fail failure to recover uh is going to make it very recover uh is going to make it very recover uh is going to make it very difficult to grow and um that's you know difficult to grow and um that's you know difficult to grow and um that's you know one of the things that people who are one of the things that people who are one of the things that people who are overtraining are sort of missing on. Um, overtraining are sort of missing on. Um, overtraining are sort of missing on. Um, so dehydration of course reduces the so dehydration of course reduces the so dehydration of course reduces the function of of muscle. Um, creatine, function of of muscle. Um, creatine, function of of muscle. Um, creatine, again, we've talked about it a bunch, again, we've talked about it a bunch, again, we've talked about it a bunch, but it's just worth, you know, but it's just worth, you know, but it's just worth, you know, remembering what it is. Creatine is a remembering what it is. Creatine is a remembering what it is. Creatine is a phosphate donor. Um, so it's kind of the phosphate donor. Um, so it's kind of the phosphate donor. Um, so it's kind of the fastest way to to generate ATP. fastest way to to generate ATP. fastest way to to generate ATP. um multiple clinical trials, um multiple clinical trials, um multiple clinical trials, metaanalyses non-stop demonstrate that metaanalyses non-stop demonstrate that metaanalyses non-stop demonstrate that creatine is favorable in terms of creatine is favorable in terms of creatine is favorable in terms of strength, power, and muscle mass. U so I strength, power, and muscle mass. U so I strength, power, and muscle mass. U so I always tell people it's really one of always tell people it's really one of always tell people it's really one of the few supplements that I almost the few supplements that I almost the few supplements that I almost universally recommend. There aren't many universally recommend. There aren't many universally recommend. There aren't many things that I just think universally things that I just think universally things that I just think universally make sense to people who are exercising make sense to people who are exercising make sense to people who are exercising or anybody for that matter. Um, and and or anybody for that matter. Um, and and or anybody for that matter. Um, and and creatine's probably the closest we have creatine's probably the closest we have creatine's probably the closest we have to that to that list for me. to that to that list for me. to that to that list for me. >> Beyond nutrition, any other quote >> Beyond nutrition, any other quote >> Beyond nutrition, any other quote unquote lifestyle factors that people unquote lifestyle factors that people unquote lifestyle factors that people should be aware of that can affect their should be aware of that can affect their should be aware of that can affect their ability to gain muscle, focus on muscle ability to gain muscle, focus on muscle ability to gain muscle, focus on muscle mass, resistance training. mass, resistance training. mass, resistance training. >> Yeah. So again, besides things you can't >> Yeah. So again, besides things you can't >> Yeah. So again, besides things you can't change like genes, we've talked about change like genes, we've talked about change like genes, we've talked about the training itself, we've talked about the training itself, we've talked about the training itself, we've talked about the nutrition itself, um recovery, the nutrition itself, um recovery, the nutrition itself, um recovery, hormones, sleep, stress, huge huge role hormones, sleep, stress, huge huge role hormones, sleep, stress, huge huge role here. Um and and again, so let's take here. Um and and again, so let's take here. Um and and again, so let's take the most obvious of these, which is the most obvious of these, which is the most obvious of these, which is hormones, right? The more testosterone hormones, right? The more testosterone hormones, right? The more testosterone you have, the easier it is to put on you have, the easier it is to put on you have, the easier it is to put on muscle mass. Full stop. This is true if muscle mass. Full stop. This is true if muscle mass. Full stop. This is true if you're a man. This is true if you're a you're a man. This is true if you're a you're a man. This is true if you're a woman. This is true if you're in woman. This is true if you're in woman. This is true if you're in menopause. is true. If you're not in menopause. is true. If you're not in menopause. is true. If you're not in menopause, um more testosterone, all menopause, um more testosterone, all menopause, um more testosterone, all things equal, more muscle. Um especially things equal, more muscle. Um especially things equal, more muscle. Um especially when uh when when compounded with a when uh when when compounded with a when uh when when compounded with a training effect. Um but what's a lot training effect. Um but what's a lot training effect. Um but what's a lot more difficult to appreciate is more more difficult to appreciate is more more difficult to appreciate is more cortisol, less muscle, right? So uh uh cortisol, less muscle, right? So uh uh cortisol, less muscle, right? So uh uh chronically elevated levels of cortisol chronically elevated levels of cortisol chronically elevated levels of cortisol are actually catabolic to muscle. uh we are actually catabolic to muscle. uh we are actually catabolic to muscle. uh we see the most extreme example of this see the most extreme example of this see the most extreme example of this when we look at a patient with Cushings when we look at a patient with Cushings when we look at a patient with Cushings disease or Cushing syndrome where they disease or Cushing syndrome where they disease or Cushing syndrome where they actually experience muscle wasting due actually experience muscle wasting due actually experience muscle wasting due to the hypercortiselmia. But for many of to the hypercortiselmia. But for many of to the hypercortiselmia. But for many of us listening who don't have Cushings us listening who don't have Cushings us listening who don't have Cushings disease but who still probably walk disease but who still probably walk disease but who still probably walk around with too much cortisol, uh it's around with too much cortisol, uh it's around with too much cortisol, uh it's definitely hurting us. And definitely hurting us. And definitely hurting us. And unfortunately, you don't have a pill you unfortunately, you don't have a pill you unfortunately, you don't have a pill you can take that makes your cortisol levels can take that makes your cortisol levels can take that makes your cortisol levels go down. You've got to do all of these go down. You've got to do all of these go down. You've got to do all of these challenging things that we all are challenging things that we all are challenging things that we all are working very hard to do to reduce our working very hard to do to reduce our working very hard to do to reduce our level of perceived stress. um if you're level of perceived stress. um if you're level of perceived stress. um if you're not sleeping enough, you're not not sleeping enough, you're not not sleeping enough, you're not recovering enough, right? This is when recovering enough, right? This is when recovering enough, right? This is when the body is mostly going through its the body is mostly going through its the body is mostly going through its rebuilding and and and and resilience rebuilding and and and and resilience rebuilding and and and and resilience phase. Um and you know, we joke about it phase. Um and you know, we joke about it phase. Um and you know, we joke about it like we you know, you see bodybuilders, like we you know, you see bodybuilders, like we you know, you see bodybuilders, they're like sleeping 9 10 hours a day. they're like sleeping 9 10 hours a day. they're like sleeping 9 10 hours a day. Um right, and and they're they just Um right, and and they're they just Um right, and and they're they just they're they're putting their bodies they're they're putting their bodies they're they're putting their bodies under so much stress that they need that under so much stress that they need that under so much stress that they need that maximum time to recover. Um so so again, maximum time to recover. Um so so again, maximum time to recover. Um so so again, I think the the harder you're training, I think the the harder you're training, I think the the harder you're training, the more you need to sleep, for sure. the more you need to sleep, for sure. the more you need to sleep, for sure. Um, consistency of course plays such a Um, consistency of course plays such a Um, consistency of course plays such a big role in this. Um, again, so many big role in this. Um, again, so many big role in this. Um, again, so many things in health come down to things in health come down to things in health come down to compounding and you are not going to compounding and you are not going to compounding and you are not going to make great gains if you are inconsistent make great gains if you are inconsistent make great gains if you are inconsistent in in what you're trying to do in the in in what you're trying to do in the in in what you're trying to do in the gym. So, if you you could have the best gym. So, if you you could have the best gym. So, if you you could have the best month of your life, but if the next month of your life, but if the next month of your life, but if the next month you're inconsistent um, and you month you're inconsistent um, and you month you're inconsistent um, and you repeat that cycle over and over again, repeat that cycle over and over again, repeat that cycle over and over again, it's it's not going to really matter. it's it's not going to really matter. it's it's not going to really matter. So, Peter, I think what would be helpful So, Peter, I think what would be helpful So, Peter, I think what would be helpful as we kind of think about wrapping this as we kind of think about wrapping this as we kind of think about wrapping this AMA is kind of picking a few different AMA is kind of picking a few different AMA is kind of picking a few different types of people. Let's say someone who's types of people. Let's say someone who's types of people. Let's say someone who's newer to exercise and newer to newer to exercise and newer to newer to exercise and newer to resistance training and is younger. What resistance training and is younger. What resistance training and is younger. What does some programming look like for them does some programming look like for them does some programming look like for them and how could they take that information and how could they take that information and how could they take that information to a gym and start to execute against to a gym and start to execute against to a gym and start to execute against it? We can look at someone who is newer it? We can look at someone who is newer it? We can look at someone who is newer to exercise but older and look at how to exercise but older and look at how to exercise but older and look at how that maybe differs than the younger that maybe differs than the younger that maybe differs than the younger person. And then I think we can look at person. And then I think we can look at person. And then I think we can look at someone who's very like seasoned at someone who's very like seasoned at someone who's very like seasoned at resistance training and has been doing resistance training and has been doing resistance training and has been doing it. Is there anything they should do to it. Is there anything they should do to it. Is there anything they should do to modify their workouts to really have modify their workouts to really have modify their workouts to really have maximal achievement here based on what maximal achievement here based on what maximal achievement here based on what we talked about? So I [clears throat] we talked about? So I [clears throat] we talked about? So I [clears throat] think let's start with someone who think let's start with someone who think let's start with someone who hasn't been resistance training is quote hasn't been resistance training is quote hasn't been resistance training is quote unquote younger. you know, patient comes unquote younger. you know, patient comes unquote younger. you know, patient comes to you and says, "Hey, I'm willing to do to you and says, "Hey, I'm willing to do to you and says, "Hey, I'm willing to do this. What do you want my programming to this. What do you want my programming to this. What do you want my programming to be? What should it look like when I get be? What should it look like when I get be? What should it look like when I get to the gym?" to the gym?" to the gym?" >> So, first off, many ways to do this and >> So, first off, many ways to do this and >> So, first off, many ways to do this and and you know, there are going to be and you know, there are going to be and you know, there are going to be trainers listening to this who say, "I trainers listening to this who say, "I trainers listening to this who say, "I wouldn't do this. I would do that." wouldn't do this. I would do that." wouldn't do this. I would do that." Look, I I think there's lots of ways to Look, I I think there's lots of ways to Look, I I think there's lots of ways to do it. This is one way to do it. And by do it. This is one way to do it. And by do it. This is one way to do it. And by the way, this is a really really fun the way, this is a really really fun the way, this is a really really fun demographic of people to work with. Why? demographic of people to work with. Why? demographic of people to work with. Why? because if they adhere to this type of because if they adhere to this type of because if they adhere to this type of of of routine, they are going to see of of routine, they are going to see of of routine, they are going to see pretty remarkable gains. So, one way to pretty remarkable gains. So, one way to pretty remarkable gains. So, one way to skin this cat is to actually do the skin this cat is to actually do the skin this cat is to actually do the exact opposite of say what I'm doing exact opposite of say what I'm doing exact opposite of say what I'm doing where you do a 3-day full body program. where you do a 3-day full body program. where you do a 3-day full body program. Um, that on each day you will do each Um, that on each day you will do each Um, that on each day you will do each body part to some effect. Now again, I body part to some effect. Now again, I body part to some effect. Now again, I don't recommend this for someone who's don't recommend this for someone who's don't recommend this for someone who's more advanced and wants to use more more advanced and wants to use more more advanced and wants to use more intensity and things of that nature. Um intensity and things of that nature. Um intensity and things of that nature. Um but uh but but for this person, it can but uh but but for this person, it can but uh but but for this person, it can be great. So I would say look, do a be great. So I would say look, do a be great. So I would say look, do a Monday, Wednesday, Friday or a Tuesday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday or a Tuesday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday or a Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday split. Um we're going Thursday, Saturday split. Um we're going Thursday, Saturday split. Um we're going to do time in gym 1 hour each workout. to do time in gym 1 hour each workout. to do time in gym 1 hour each workout. So again, this is this is exactly what So again, this is this is exactly what So again, this is this is exactly what we're going to do with a patient in this we're going to do with a patient in this we're going to do with a patient in this situation who we're just introducing to situation who we're just introducing to situation who we're just introducing to the gym. Once they've get let's so let's the gym. Once they've get let's so let's the gym. Once they've get let's so let's just say Nick, we've got a person who's just say Nick, we've got a person who's just say Nick, we've got a person who's been long on cardio. Um been long on cardio. Um been long on cardio. Um so more typically this by the way might so more typically this by the way might so more typically this by the way might be a female. Not to stereotype, but be a female. Not to stereotype, but be a female. Not to stereotype, but that's more often the way it shows up. that's more often the way it shows up. that's more often the way it shows up. They're super long on cardio, in great They're super long on cardio, in great They're super long on cardio, in great shape. Um very low muscle mass though. shape. Um very low muscle mass though. shape. Um very low muscle mass though. They've never lifted weights before. I'm They've never lifted weights before. I'm They've never lifted weights before. I'm and but but then I'm gonna say to them, and but but then I'm gonna say to them, and but but then I'm gonna say to them, hey, you know, how much are you willing hey, you know, how much are you willing hey, you know, how much are you willing to exercise a week? They say they're to exercise a week? They say they're to exercise a week? They say they're willing to give me six hours a week of willing to give me six hours a week of willing to give me six hours a week of training. We're gonna put their we're training. We're gonna put their we're training. We're gonna put their we're going to take them to very high levels going to take them to very high levels going to take them to very high levels on their cardio front in 3 hours a week, on their cardio front in 3 hours a week, on their cardio front in 3 hours a week, but I'm going to have them spend these but I'm going to have them spend these but I'm going to have them spend these three 1-hour sessions in the gym. So, um three 1-hour sessions in the gym. So, um three 1-hour sessions in the gym. So, um 1 hour in the gym. We would target a 1 hour in the gym. We would target a 1 hour in the gym. We would target a minimum of 10 and maybe as many as 20 minimum of 10 and maybe as many as 20 minimum of 10 and maybe as many as 20 sets per body part per week. So again, sets per body part per week. So again, sets per body part per week. So again, they're going to spread that out over they're going to spread that out over they're going to spread that out over the three uh workouts. They might do 3 the three uh workouts. They might do 3 the three uh workouts. They might do 3 to four sets per exercise, anywhere from to four sets per exercise, anywhere from to four sets per exercise, anywhere from six to 15 reps per exercise, anywhere six to 15 reps per exercise, anywhere six to 15 reps per exercise, anywhere from 90 to 120 seconds per exercise. I'm from 90 to 120 seconds per exercise. I'm from 90 to 120 seconds per exercise. I'm often going to have them super setting often going to have them super setting often going to have them super setting on this because we have the luxury of on this because we have the luxury of on this because we have the luxury of them doing whole body. So, they're not them doing whole body. So, they're not them doing whole body. So, they're not they're they're getting rest from a they're they're getting rest from a they're they're getting rest from a given exercise, but while they're doing given exercise, but while they're doing given exercise, but while they're doing something for their back, um I might something for their back, um I might something for their back, um I might have them rest quote unquote by doing have them rest quote unquote by doing have them rest quote unquote by doing something for their chest. So, you're something for their chest. So, you're something for their chest. So, you're using opposing muscles. Um start them using opposing muscles. Um start them using opposing muscles. Um start them out at a very low intensity of 3 to four out at a very low intensity of 3 to four out at a very low intensity of 3 to four RIR, working them up to 1 to two ri. Um RIR, working them up to 1 to two ri. Um RIR, working them up to 1 to two ri. Um and again, this is a person who's not and again, this is a person who's not and again, this is a person who's not going to stop moving. um they're going going to stop moving. um they're going going to stop moving. um they're going to, you know, we're we're either going to, you know, we're we're either going to, you know, we're we're either going to pair opposing muscles like chest and to pair opposing muscles like chest and to pair opposing muscles like chest and back um or completely different. I mean, back um or completely different. I mean, back um or completely different. I mean, as recently as two years ago, I was as recently as two years ago, I was as recently as two years ago, I was doing a whole body workout every uh doing a whole body workout every uh doing a whole body workout every uh maybe three days a week where I was maybe three days a week where I was maybe three days a week where I was alternating like like lower body, upper alternating like like lower body, upper alternating like like lower body, upper body, lower body, upper body, supersets body, lower body, upper body, supersets body, lower body, upper body, supersets all the way through. So, again, lots of all the way through. So, again, lots of all the way through. So, again, lots of ways to do this, but that that would be ways to do this, but that that would be ways to do this, but that that would be one way to do it. you kind of hinted one way to do it. you kind of hinted one way to do it. you kind of hinted there, but just I think superset there, but just I think superset there, but just I think superset sometimes is a new term for people. So, sometimes is a new term for people. So, sometimes is a new term for people. So, do you just want to give like a really do you just want to give like a really do you just want to give like a really quick clean definition in case people quick clean definition in case people quick clean definition in case people didn't pick it up from what you just didn't pick it up from what you just didn't pick it up from what you just said? said? said? >> Uh, yeah. So, it's it's basically you >> Uh, yeah. So, it's it's basically you >> Uh, yeah. So, it's it's basically you are, let's say you're doing um a bicep are, let's say you're doing um a bicep are, let's say you're doing um a bicep and a tricep superset. Instead of just and a tricep superset. Instead of just and a tricep superset. Instead of just doing bicep curl, rest, bicep curl, doing bicep curl, rest, bicep curl, doing bicep curl, rest, bicep curl, rest, bicep curl, rest, you would do a a rest, bicep curl, rest, you would do a a rest, bicep curl, rest, you would do a a bicep curl and then a tricep extension bicep curl and then a tricep extension bicep curl and then a tricep extension or something like that, and then a bicep or something like that, and then a bicep or something like that, and then a bicep curl and then tricep extension. So, curl and then tricep extension. So, curl and then tricep extension. So, you're resting your you're resting one you're resting your you're resting one you're resting your you're resting one muscle while you're working an opposing muscle while you're working an opposing muscle while you're working an opposing muscle or a completely different part of muscle or a completely different part of muscle or a completely different part of the body. So, again, it's much more the body. So, again, it's much more the body. So, again, it's much more timeefficient. timeefficient. timeefficient. To be clear, you wouldn't typically uh To be clear, you wouldn't typically uh To be clear, you wouldn't typically uh you could there's a totally different you could there's a totally different you could there's a totally different reason for doing this, but for this reason for doing this, but for this reason for doing this, but for this person, I would not superset chest and person, I would not superset chest and person, I would not superset chest and tricep or back and bicep because those tricep or back and bicep because those tricep or back and bicep because those are not really opposing muscles and are not really opposing muscles and are not really opposing muscles and you're now getting into fatiguing you're now getting into fatiguing you're now getting into fatiguing supporting muscles. So again, there supporting muscles. So again, there supporting muscles. So again, there there's a time and a place for that. If there's a time and a place for that. If there's a time and a place for that. If you're trying to make improvements, so you're trying to make improvements, so you're trying to make improvements, so for example, if you're trying to improve for example, if you're trying to improve for example, if you're trying to improve your pull-ups, you will superset them your pull-ups, you will superset them your pull-ups, you will superset them with bicep curls, right? because you're with bicep curls, right? because you're with bicep curls, right? because you're pre- fatiguing the bicep. Um, and so pre- fatiguing the bicep. Um, and so pre- fatiguing the bicep. Um, and so you're you're you're drawing out you're you're you're you're drawing out you're you're you're you're drawing out you're you're trying to get those uh you're you're trying to get those uh you're you're trying to get those uh you're trying to double up on failure and break trying to double up on failure and break trying to double up on failure and break through plateaus and things of that through plateaus and things of that through plateaus and things of that nature. Not not what we're doing with nature. Not not what we're doing with nature. Not not what we're doing with this person. this person. this person. >> Perfect. So now let's take same person, >> Perfect. So now let's take same person, >> Perfect. So now let's take same person, new to training, haven't been resistance new to training, haven't been resistance new to training, haven't been resistance training, but they're older in age. How training, but they're older in age. How training, but they're older in age. How does kind of the programming you gave does kind of the programming you gave does kind of the programming you gave the younger person differ here? Again, the younger person differ here? Again, the younger person differ here? Again, the principles are the same because the principles are the same because the principles are the same because they're new to this, but we want to they're new to this, but we want to they're new to this, but we want to probably start with lower volume, lower probably start with lower volume, lower probably start with lower volume, lower intensity, intensity, intensity, um, and maybe increase a little more um, and maybe increase a little more um, and maybe increase a little more gradually. Big big form here. Uh, big gradually. Big big form here. Uh, big gradually. Big big form here. Uh, big focus is is on form, of course. Um, focus is is on form, of course. Um, focus is is on form, of course. Um, and, um, probably slower tempos. Um, so and, um, probably slower tempos. Um, so and, um, probably slower tempos. Um, so again, um, looks very similar to the again, um, looks very similar to the again, um, looks very similar to the other person, but the intensity is going other person, but the intensity is going other person, but the intensity is going to be considerably lower. That other to be considerably lower. That other to be considerably lower. That other person, by the way, is going to really person, by the way, is going to really person, by the way, is going to really feel smoked in the hour because they're feel smoked in the hour because they're feel smoked in the hour because they're not going to stop moving. Uh, this not going to stop moving. Uh, this not going to stop moving. Uh, this person, depending on their age, I might person, depending on their age, I might person, depending on their age, I might even not do the super sets. By the way, even not do the super sets. By the way, even not do the super sets. By the way, um, and and therefore they have fewer um, and and therefore they have fewer um, and and therefore they have fewer exercises that they're going to get done exercises that they're going to get done exercises that they're going to get done if they're allocating the same amount of if they're allocating the same amount of if they're allocating the same amount of time. time. time. >> For these newer people, some one of the >> For these newer people, some one of the >> For these newer people, some one of the questions we can get asked is, if I'm questions we can get asked is, if I'm questions we can get asked is, if I'm going to the gym, I have two options, going to the gym, I have two options, going to the gym, I have two options, right? I have free weights, which could right? I have free weights, which could right? I have free weights, which could be dumbbells, kettle bells, etc., and I be dumbbells, kettle bells, etc., and I be dumbbells, kettle bells, etc., and I have machines. So, based on the comment have machines. So, based on the comment have machines. So, based on the comment you just made about form, if someone's you just made about form, if someone's you just made about form, if someone's newer to the gym and has that newer to the gym and has that newer to the gym and has that optionality, do you traditionally like optionality, do you traditionally like optionality, do you traditionally like to encourage them to start with machines to encourage them to start with machines to encourage them to start with machines because there's less risk in the form because there's less risk in the form because there's less risk in the form variation than free weights? variation than free weights? variation than free weights? >> I think it depends on their setup. So, >> I think it depends on their setup. So, >> I think it depends on their setup. So, sometimes they'll have a trainer and if sometimes they'll have a trainer and if sometimes they'll have a trainer and if the trainer is really good, I I think the trainer is really good, I I think the trainer is really good, I I think it's fine to do anything. Look, I mean, it's fine to do anything. Look, I mean, it's fine to do anything. Look, I mean, again, go back to the Belinda Beck again, go back to the Belinda Beck again, go back to the Belinda Beck discussion of the LiftMore study. I discussion of the LiftMore study. I discussion of the LiftMore study. I mean, these they did the exact they were mean, these they did the exact they were mean, these they did the exact they were deadlifting. Like 65year-old women who'd deadlifting. Like 65year-old women who'd deadlifting. Like 65year-old women who'd never touched a weight in their life, never touched a weight in their life, never touched a weight in their life, we're deadlifting. This is one of the we're deadlifting. This is one of the we're deadlifting. This is one of the most complicated movements you could most complicated movements you could most complicated movements you could ever try to teach somebody. What does it ever try to teach somebody. What does it ever try to teach somebody. What does it tell me? It tells me if you if you know tell me? It tells me if you if you know tell me? It tells me if you if you know how to teach somebody how to do an how to teach somebody how to do an how to teach somebody how to do an exercise, they can do it, right? So, I exercise, they can do it, right? So, I exercise, they can do it, right? So, I don't think it has to be that, oh, if don't think it has to be that, oh, if don't think it has to be that, oh, if you're a novice, you have to do you're a novice, you have to do you're a novice, you have to do machines. I think machines are great, machines. I think machines are great, machines. I think machines are great, right? Um, and it is it's a great way to right? Um, and it is it's a great way to right? Um, and it is it's a great way to start and and sometimes it's a less start and and sometimes it's a less start and and sometimes it's a less intimidating way to start. Um, and intimidating way to start. Um, and intimidating way to start. Um, and especially for a person who doesn't have especially for a person who doesn't have especially for a person who doesn't have a trainer and is kind of going to go and a trainer and is kind of going to go and a trainer and is kind of going to go and figure this out at their at their gym, figure this out at their at their gym, figure this out at their at their gym, which by the way might seem really which by the way might seem really which by the way might seem really intimidating if they have to go to the intimidating if they have to go to the intimidating if they have to go to the section of the gym where there's just section of the gym where there's just section of the gym where there's just benches and sweaty dudes and dumbbells. benches and sweaty dudes and dumbbells. benches and sweaty dudes and dumbbells. Uh, but maybe it's less intimidating, Uh, but maybe it's less intimidating, Uh, but maybe it's less intimidating, you know, to be where the machines are. you know, to be where the machines are. you know, to be where the machines are. So, um, I don't want to make too much So, um, I don't want to make too much So, um, I don't want to make too much hay out of it. I just, you know, I just hay out of it. I just, you know, I just hay out of it. I just, you know, I just kind of want that person in the gym and kind of want that person in the gym and kind of want that person in the gym and and moving stuff around and um and and and moving stuff around and um and and and moving stuff around and um and and and developing a little bit of and developing a little bit of and developing a little bit of confidence without hurting themselves. confidence without hurting themselves. confidence without hurting themselves. And machines are a great way to And machines are a great way to And machines are a great way to accomplish that. So, let's now take a accomplish that. So, let's now take a accomplish that. So, let's now take a person who's been resistance training. person who's been resistance training. person who's been resistance training. Anything specifically you recommend to Anything specifically you recommend to Anything specifically you recommend to them for their programming? Should they them for their programming? Should they them for their programming? Should they modify in any ways? What type of advice modify in any ways? What type of advice modify in any ways? What type of advice are you giving a patient who's are you giving a patient who's are you giving a patient who's resistance training some in the gym but resistance training some in the gym but resistance training some in the gym but comes to you and says hey I want to comes to you and says hey I want to comes to you and says hey I want to maximize this for lifespan health span maximize this for lifespan health span maximize this for lifespan health span benefits what would you say benefits what would you say benefits what would you say >> honestly at this level Nick it's totally >> honestly at this level Nick it's totally >> honestly at this level Nick it's totally different right I mean if you take the different right I mean if you take the different right I mean if you take the seasoned person who's saying seasoned person who's saying seasoned person who's saying I love doing this but now I want to this I love doing this but now I want to this I love doing this but now I want to this is kind of like me talking to me right is kind of like me talking to me right is kind of like me talking to me right like now what am I thinking about and like now what am I thinking about and like now what am I thinking about and and I have many patients who are in this and I have many patients who are in this and I have many patients who are in this boat as well they They love lifting boat as well they They love lifting boat as well they They love lifting weights. They've been doing it for a weights. They've been doing it for a weights. They've been doing it for a long time, but they're they want they long time, but they're they want they long time, but they're they want they need a direction to go in. And I think need a direction to go in. And I think need a direction to go in. And I think this is where the centinarian decathlon this is where the centinarian decathlon this is where the centinarian decathlon becomes very very helpful, right? Which becomes very very helpful, right? Which becomes very very helpful, right? Which is okay. You have to define your sport. is okay. You have to define your sport. is okay. You have to define your sport. What is it you want to be able to do in What is it you want to be able to do in What is it you want to be able to do in the last decade of your life? You know, the last decade of your life? You know, the last decade of your life? You know, I want to be able to swim a mile. I want I want to be able to swim a mile. I want I want to be able to swim a mile. I want to be able to ride a bike. I want to be to be able to ride a bike. I want to be to be able to ride a bike. I want to be able to hike. I want to be able to uh able to hike. I want to be able to uh able to hike. I want to be able to uh play soccer with a kid. play soccer with a kid. play soccer with a kid. um the I need to be training in ways um the I need to be training in ways um the I need to be training in ways that allow my muscles to be able to do that allow my muscles to be able to do that allow my muscles to be able to do that. So, a lot of it actually comes that. So, a lot of it actually comes that. So, a lot of it actually comes down to down to down to taking things away that were increasing taking things away that were increasing taking things away that were increasing risk. I haven't deadlifted in over a risk. I haven't deadlifted in over a risk. I haven't deadlifted in over a year. Now, truthfully, most of the times year. Now, truthfully, most of the times year. Now, truthfully, most of the times I deadlifted, I felt pretty good, but I deadlifted, I felt pretty good, but I deadlifted, I felt pretty good, but once a month, I didn't. I was just too once a month, I didn't. I was just too once a month, I didn't. I was just too fatigued. I I just was too distracted. I fatigued. I I just was too distracted. I fatigued. I I just was too distracted. I just did something where my back would just did something where my back would just did something where my back would get a little irritated. Was never a big get a little irritated. Was never a big get a little irritated. Was never a big problem. It's not like it ever resulted problem. It's not like it ever resulted problem. It's not like it ever resulted in sciatica or any of these cataclysmic in sciatica or any of these cataclysmic in sciatica or any of these cataclysmic outcomes. But it just occurred to me. I outcomes. But it just occurred to me. I outcomes. But it just occurred to me. I was like, "Well, I don't need to take was like, "Well, I don't need to take was like, "Well, I don't need to take this risk anymore." Okay. Now, again, this risk anymore." Okay. Now, again, this risk anymore." Okay. Now, again, there's going to be somebody listening there's going to be somebody listening there's going to be somebody listening to me that says, "This guy's horrible. to me that says, "This guy's horrible. to me that says, "This guy's horrible. How could he stop deadlifting? What an How could he stop deadlifting? What an How could he stop deadlifting? What an idiot." Okay, fill your boots. You want idiot." Okay, fill your boots. You want idiot." Okay, fill your boots. You want to deadlift all day, knock yourself out, to deadlift all day, knock yourself out, to deadlift all day, knock yourself out, and I hope you do it safely for the rest and I hope you do it safely for the rest and I hope you do it safely for the rest of your life. I can just tell you that of your life. I can just tell you that of your life. I can just tell you that for me the riskreward trade-off wasn't for me the riskreward trade-off wasn't for me the riskreward trade-off wasn't there when there are so many other there when there are so many other there when there are so many other exercises that I can do. I can do exercises that I can do. I can do exercises that I can do. I can do headfield lunges and squats. I can do headfield lunges and squats. I can do headfield lunges and squats. I can do belt squats. I I can do so many things belt squats. I I can do so many things belt squats. I I can do so many things that are producing virtually no axial that are producing virtually no axial that are producing virtually no axial load on my spine and I never ever have load on my spine and I never ever have load on my spine and I never ever have even the slightest irritation. So I'm, even the slightest irritation. So I'm, even the slightest irritation. So I'm, you know, that's an adjustment that I've you know, that's an adjustment that I've you know, that's an adjustment that I've made. Is that making me bigger or made. Is that making me bigger or made. Is that making me bigger or stronger? No, it's not. It's d-risking. stronger? No, it's not. It's d-risking. stronger? No, it's not. It's d-risking. So d-risking is becoming a component of So d-risking is becoming a component of So d-risking is becoming a component of taking myself towards my goals. Um it's taking myself towards my goals. Um it's taking myself towards my goals. Um it's also focusing on things where I see also focusing on things where I see also focusing on things where I see deficits, right? It's also focusing on deficits, right? It's also focusing on deficits, right? It's also focusing on areas where I say, "Hey man, like areas where I say, "Hey man, like areas where I say, "Hey man, like [snorts] you know, um well, I'll give [snorts] you know, um well, I'll give [snorts] you know, um well, I'll give you an example. Like I am constantly you an example. Like I am constantly you an example. Like I am constantly worried, as I think every middle-aged worried, as I think every middle-aged worried, as I think every middle-aged person is, about tearing their Achilles. person is, about tearing their Achilles. person is, about tearing their Achilles. We we all have a friend who's done it. We we all have a friend who's done it. We we all have a friend who's done it. I'm sure somebody listening to us has I'm sure somebody listening to us has I'm sure somebody listening to us has done it. Um, done it. Um, done it. Um, I'm very paranoid about this, right? I'm very paranoid about this, right? I'm very paranoid about this, right? It's such a devastating injury. It sets It's such a devastating injury. It sets It's such a devastating injury. It sets you back so far and it always seems to you back so far and it always seems to you back so far and it always seems to happen when a person's muscles exceed happen when a person's muscles exceed happen when a person's muscles exceed the capacity of their connective tissue. the capacity of their connective tissue. the capacity of their connective tissue. So, you're you it's often someone who's So, you're you it's often someone who's So, you're you it's often someone who's pretty athletic or who was formerly very pretty athletic or who was formerly very pretty athletic or who was formerly very athletic who tries to go back to do athletic who tries to go back to do athletic who tries to go back to do something and they engage in an something and they engage in an something and they engage in an explosive movement, but then they tear explosive movement, but then they tear explosive movement, but then they tear the connective tissue. So I it sounds the connective tissue. So I it sounds the connective tissue. So I it sounds silly. Spend a lot of time bouncing. silly. Spend a lot of time bouncing. silly. Spend a lot of time bouncing. Spend a lot of time doing exercises like Spend a lot of time doing exercises like Spend a lot of time doing exercises like calf raises that are, you know, calf raises that are, you know, calf raises that are, you know, seemingly quite boring, but that just seemingly quite boring, but that just seemingly quite boring, but that just work on strengthening that uh that work on strengthening that uh that work on strengthening that uh that connective tissue between the muscle and connective tissue between the muscle and connective tissue between the muscle and the bone. Um so I can't give a generic the bone. Um so I can't give a generic the bone. Um so I can't give a generic answer here other than to say this is answer here other than to say this is answer here other than to say this is finishing school. This is where I mean finishing school. This is where I mean finishing school. This is where I mean look this is why we created 10 squared look this is why we created 10 squared look this is why we created 10 squared right is uh and I I haven't talked too right is uh and I I haven't talked too right is uh and I I haven't talked too much I guess about 10 squared but but much I guess about 10 squared but but much I guess about 10 squared but but this is why we created an entire um this is why we created an entire um this is why we created an entire um company around taking people regardless company around taking people regardless company around taking people regardless of their level of athleticism or of their level of athleticism or of their level of athleticism or experiencing experience and training experiencing experience and training experiencing experience and training them for the marginal decade because the them for the marginal decade because the them for the marginal decade because the level of of of um um I think of of level of of of um um I think of of level of of of um um I think of of precision that you need to train for precision that you need to train for precision that you need to train for this uh is as is as important and as this uh is as is as important and as this uh is as is as important and as nuanced as if you were training for a nuanced as if you were training for a nuanced as if you were training for a very specific sport at a young age like very specific sport at a young age like very specific sport at a young age like a decathlon or um you know a triathlon a decathlon or um you know a triathlon a decathlon or um you know a triathlon or something like that. or something like that. or something like that. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. I think that covers everything we wanted I think that covers everything we wanted I think that covers everything we wanted to cover in this AMA. So that said, to cover in this AMA. So that said, to cover in this AMA. So that said, anything you want to add? Anything anything you want to add? Anything anything you want to add? Anything randomly in your head? Any advice on randomly in your head? Any advice on randomly in your head? Any advice on life that you have for anyone out there life that you have for anyone out there life that you have for anyone out there still listening? still listening? still listening? still listening. God, that sounds still listening. God, that sounds still listening. God, that sounds depressing. I don't think so. I think depressing. I don't think so. I think depressing. I don't think so. I think I've spilled all my advice for for a I've spilled all my advice for for a I've spilled all my advice for for a month. month. month. >> There we There we go. Well, good thing >> There we There we go. Well, good thing >> There we There we go. Well, good thing we'll see you next month then and we'll we'll see you next month then and we'll we'll see you next month then and we'll get more of that life spilling advice. get more of that life spilling advice. get more of that life spilling advice. [clears throat] I think that's all we [clears throat] I think that's all we [clears throat] I think that's all we got. Peter, thank you very much for got. Peter, thank you very much for got. Peter, thank you very much for showing up again. showing up again. showing up again. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for listening to this week's >> Thank you for listening to this week's >> Thank you for listening to this week's episode of The Drive. It's extremely episode of The Drive. It's extremely episode of The Drive. 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