Buddhist Strategies for Protecting Yourself from Everyday Chaos | Bart van Melik

Key Takeaway

The most powerful meditation practice isn't just being mindful of your breath or emotions—it's knowing that you're aware. This shift from noticing what you're experiencing to recognizing the awareness itself creates a protective space, especially in challenging moments with loved ones. When you pause and remember awareness before reacting, you gain creative space to respond skillfully rather than habitually. Practice this: In your next difficult interaction, pause and notice not just the frustration, but that you are aware of the frustration. That awareness isn't frustrated—it's spacious, kind, and unchanging.

Episode Overview

Meditation teacher Bart Van Melik discusses how to be less reactive in daily life, particularly with loved ones. He shares his journey from discovering meditation in Thailand to teaching it to kids in juvenile detention centers. The conversation explores the distinction between being mindful of something versus knowing that you're aware—a subtle but powerful shift that creates space for more skillful responses. Bart emphasizes the practice of pausing to remember awareness, especially in triggering situations with family, and introduces the concept of 'calmly knowing change' as a way to work with impermanence.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Buddhist Strategies for Protecting Yourself from Everyday Chaos | Bart van Melik from 10% Happier. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Hey gang, today a conversation about how to be less reactive. How to handle it when you work a lot on your reactivity and uh you still lose your How to say no without being a jerk, how to set boundaries, and much more. Bart Vanmelik has been on this show before. He's a fantastic meditation and dharma teacher in the insight tradition. He has studied very closely with Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salsberg and many other legendary teachers. Bart is also the teacher of the month on our new app which is called 10% with Dan Harris which means Bart will be crafting a whole set of fresh guided meditations for you and participating in some of our live meditation and Q&A sessions which we do every Tuesday at 4 Eastern.

Speaking of the app, if you want to sign up for the app, you can do so at danharris.com. There's a free 30-day trial if you want to try before you buy. Okay, we'll get started with Bart Van Melik in conversation with the executive producer of this show, DJ Cashmere, right after this. this. this. Bart Van Melik, welcome back to the show. show. show. Thank you, DJ. Thanks for having me. Oh, this is such a pleasure. I've been looking forward to this for a couple of weeks now.

weeks now. weeks now. Oh, likewise. It's been four years. It has. Yeah. Yeah. So, you you were on the show once before, but to your point, it was a long time ago. I was listening to that episode last week. It's a great episode. We'll put a link in the show notes all about how to bring mindfulness and meditative practices into our relationships with other people is wonderful. wonderful. wonderful. Right. Right. Right. But anyway, you're back now and you're our teacher of the month for the rest of January here.

And so just wanted to take this opportunity to kind of reintroduce you to our audience and start with a yeah maybe simple but not easy question which is how did you become a meditation teacher? teacher? teacher? Well first of all thanks for having me. That's like asking someone about their life story. And and so I I'd given some thought and the first thing that actually came to mind is is special people, special relationships, special relationships, special relationships, people that are coming to mind that without them I wouldn't even be having this conversation with you right now.

But if I have to share a little bit about my story, I have to take you back to just finishing high school in the Netherlands. Netherlands. Netherlands. I really didn't know what to do with my life. I grew up in a small town in the south of the Netherlands and and and I knew I wanted to go somewhere else. I was already very interested in how the mind works, but I didn't know what to do after high school. And I remember very clearly I was at the kitchen table in my parents house.

The Saturday paper was open and it had an advertisement for a um exchange program for students who had just graduated from high school and something in me said apply apply apply apply for it. you would go to Kenya, you would be partnered with the Kenyan person of your own age and you would be working with them, living with them in their house. their house. their house. And I I got in and that was really the first time where I really felt like everything that I was taken for granted in my life was no longer so stable.

And I was blown away by the generosity of the Kenyan people. And this is why I it's been the best thing in my life that I did this. I met Shantel, my wife, and we've been together for 30 years. Wow. Wow. Wow. And then afterwards, I had more of a clarity that my field of interest, what I really want to do with my life is I want to learn more about what how the mind works. And I'm interested in cultures. And so I ended up studying the psychology of culture and religion.

And there I studied stuff like why do people pray? people pray? people pray? What's the function of meditation? And And And it got me really interested more in how does the mind work and it's also so dependent on the culture where it's in. I realized I realized I realized I want to know more about peace of mind. It became so clear. But I was also as a Dutch person very allergic to institutionalized religion institutionalized religion institutionalized religion and I felt like I didn't really know where to go.

I didn't feel like I would belong anywhere in some kind of group. And so another major moment in my life was that Shantel's mom, Shantel whispered in her ear this, buy him a book by the Dala Lama. And that was my very first introduction to Buddhism. It just came out. The art of happiness. We're talking about the late I think late 90s. late 90s. late 90s. And I was reading it, which I often do. next to a body of water cuz that's where I also already found some peace in myself next to bodies of water and I was reading it and it was one line DJ had it said said said come and see for yourself that was another major moment hey the Buddha is saying come and see for yourself I don't need to believe anything I don't have to assume anything and that kind of brought a lot of interest in me.

So, I really took that book to heart, tried to practice on my own, but own, but own, but it didn't really stick to be honest with you. And then Chatal and I were lucky enough to do some traveling and we ended up in Thailand. And I literally stumbled over the Buddhas there. And so, we went into a temple and asked a monk, can you teach us meditation? And he said, "Sure, just sit over there and notice your belly rise when you breathe in and fall when you breathe out.

That's it. And then come back." And so we sat there, Shantal and I, and I could still see the fans circling over me. We were sitting on this fake letter plastic thingy. It was hot. But something happened. It was the first time where I wasn't just paying attention to my body breathing, but I also felt that I can know that I'm aware. And that to me was like a homecoming. It's like when Tiknadhan would say, "I have arrived. I'm home. I'm home. I'm home. And it was in that very first hit that something clicked for me like this is what I want to learn more about.

Find out what this is all about. And so I when I did come back to the Netherlands, I was like now I'm ready for signing up with the meditation group even though I was by far the youngest and it felt a little like newagy [gasps] [gasps] [gasps] and I did. And then it turns out that there was retreats that I could do. And then another major thing happened and it was a big news in the early 2000s. Joseph Goldstein would come to the Netherlands. And so I signed up for that retreat.

retreat. retreat. And [clears throat] without him, I would also not be talking to you right now. He co-taught a retreat with another dear person and friend of mine and teacher, Carol Wilson. Carol Wilson. Carol Wilson. And there was something about the way they taught it that gave me a sense of creativity in my meditation. meditation. meditation. And afterwards, I remember he said, "Bart, why don't you sign up for a long retreat at my center in the United States?" States?" States?" And that coincided with the wish that Chantel and I had been having to live in New York for a while.

while. while. And that retreat there too, I started to have longer periods of time of what it's like to know that I'm aware. It felt like this great protection. great protection. great protection. And afterwards, Joseph said, "I know you've been working with kids. How about if I was to connect you with an organization that teaches mindfulness practices to kids?" And at the time I couldn't do much else anyway because Shantel was the one who was able to get a visa as a freelance photographer. She works for a European media.

media. media. And so I started volunteering with this organization. organization. organization. And the first time that I actually shared meditation, I was teaching it was in front of six or eight boys in a juvenile detention center in the South Bronx. and had already been shadowing and had a lot of good support from Oh, you know her from uh Leslie Booker who's been on the show too. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was so nervous. I gave my first instructions to these boys. And when I was done, they said, "Bart, your meditations are lit." Oh de and and I'm like uh you know I was still very new to English and specifically also youth culture English.

I said is that good? that good? that good? And they said yeah man we appreciate it was good. And then because of that organization I was with I ended up in high schools with kids who are in residential treatment facilities in middle schools for New York kids who are suspended. And if you really want to learn meditation, start with kids because they're so honest in their feedback. feedback. feedback. Once I was leading and then they would say, "Bart, shut up. We get it. We want some quiet." some quiet." some quiet." [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] And there I kind of really got into the joy of sharing what has moved me so much.

much. much. And so that's been also a major component to to your question. And I'm aware that I've been speaking a lot. So, I'll pause to see if you want to ask a question, but I could also go on. on. on. That's a beautiful story. I I do have a question, but if you want to wrap up that thought that you're on, go for it, please. please. please. Well, just that it was just the people. I would not have done this meditation teaching without all these communities that I started to become part of.

And Joseph also started inviting me to shadow him on his retreats. And that's how I met Dan when he was doing his very first retreat. first retreat. first retreat. And then out of the blue also the invitation came to train more specifically and this was a program called community dharma leader and there I met Zeban and a lot of other beautiful friends. friends. friends. And another couple of people and I'll wrap up is were Gregory Kramer and Phyllis Hicks, two inside dialogue teachers who really opened up for me that meditation is not just being mindful and aware of what's going internally but also to see what it's like when you are in a relational field together.

together. together. That has also really informed my teaching. teaching. teaching. So, I'll pause here just to let you share your question, but thank you for asking. It's nice to be speaking about your own life in this way. way. way. Well, it's lovely to hear and and I just I appreciate the way that you framed your story around the people who have had an impact on you, right? This is very non-individualistic, very non-individualistic, very non-individualistic, zoomed out, humble, and also just straight up real, right, way of thinking about your path, which is beautiful.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My So my question is about it's something that came up a couple times, but the moment that's sticking in my mind is that first time that you're sitting that you've been given instructions. And I think you said something along the lines of it was the first time that you weren't just following your breath, but that you also knew that you were aware. And I think for some people listening, that's going to instantly compute. And for other people listening, it just might be worth unpacking a little bit.

Can you say more about what that was? What the difference is between those two experiences and what you felt like you were accessing that you hadn't accessed before? before? before? Yeah. Before Before I had that experience, I knew I could be mindful of seeing you DJ or or or feeling my body breathe. And that in and of itself to me was already very helpful because it it kind of allows you to not move constantly into habitual automatic pilot. But then I realize that I can also know that I am mindful so that you realize that you are mindful.

mindful. mindful. It's as if you're shifting from what you're mindful of, but that you actually just notice, oh yeah, I am attending right now. I am present right now. And that kind of feels and I I'll I'll talk about this also in the guided meditations. It feels like a protection. It feels like like as if I can hang out in this space of knowing and I know that I am aware and it it allows me to be even more present and just being aware of what I am noticing.

am noticing. am noticing. And so it's it it made me feel like having more space and also like a resting place and and I also started to realize that a lot of meditation teachers and also monk they often refer to meditation as resting very a particular one who lives here in New York mang bin he says noble resting resting resting and sometimes that's for me a place where I can go to First I'm aware of how I feel and then I'm just oh yeah I am aware.

It gives me a sense of power. It's also empowering empowering empowering because it feels like I have a layer of protection around me when I know that I'm mindful. I'm mindful. I'm mindful. I hope that that resonates. It does. It does. It does. Why why protection? Why does it feel like protection? I forgot to tell you another major important person in my life. life. life. His name is Lou. And Lou is 11 and he is our son. our son. our son. And And And you have kids too, right DJ?

I do. Six and almost three. And they are so good. I should say Lou is so good at pushing my buttons. He's like a fierce zen teacher in a way. And when I'm not aware, I'm so reactive. It even you can hear it in my voice. I would go, Lou, put away the phone or the iPad. iPad. iPad. And that's when I'm in reactive mode. But when I'm mindful and specifically when I know that I'm aware all the stuff that's happening, I know, oh yeah, he's doing this or he might there might be anger in him or frustration or craving.

And it's not just that I'm aware of that, but I'm also like, okay, I'm aware. I know I'm aware. And so what it does is it gives me a little more space often to be way more creative creative creative to respond to him. Actually, perhaps making a joke about staying longer on the iPad or whatever. And so when I catch myself in these few moments, moments, moments, I'm realizing it's not just for the benefit of my own ease, but I'm also realizing that I'm keeping way more of a harmony and a relationship with him.

And actually he's more willing then to accept my no for example because it's not coming from that whiny voice no more but it's like a clear no which is I think also an important part of our practice to sometimes learn how to say no to ourselves to this endless thought loops and so that's one way very concrete way how it protects me that absolutely resonates with the last 24 hours of my Yesterday Yesterday Yesterday I was um not in that aware mode and throughout the day just multiple moments of of of unskillfulness and conflict kept popping up and one of my kids would [snorts] whatever refuse to put their shoes on and I'd snap at them and just make it worse trying to rush through and just get out the door and get to the next thing.

There were like at least half a dozen of these moments sprinkled throughout the day and they all felt bad and and last night I was having trouble falling asleep in part because I was reflecting on how reactive I'd been. And I kind of woke up this morning with a renewed renewed renewed intention to intention to intention to [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] not be that version of myself. And today I had all the same tasks before me in the morning of waking the kids up which they don't like, getting them dressed for school, which they don't like, brushing their teeth, which they don't like, getting them out the door on time, which they don't like, right?

This is always the start of the day. But there was some level of like, this is what's happening right now, and I have a choice about how I engage with it. And we hit all of those same pivot moments where I had a chance and would have felt justified in snapping or yelling or just being short or rushing them or pushing or whatever. And I just I didn't take the bait. And those little moments, not only was I doing less damage, but it actually all went faster.

you know, like it actually all went easier because like when I don't take the bait, the moment just passes. And so what you're saying about orienting from this place of awareness and that being a protection, right, for you and for the people around you just feels very alive for me like literally to today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] I so hear you. I just recently did a meditation retreat for myself and actually every period of practice at the end I kind of have a sense of what's my aspiration for the next few hours or the rest sometimes for the when I've been away for a longer period of time for the next time for the and it's always being being being as kind and present as possible for those close to me because there it's always that's what's coming up in my practice a sense of to be honest sometimes guilt or regret of how I acted out again.

You know what I really like about relational meditation that I've learned through inside dialogue is that it's a perfect time to reflect. So what we're doing right now to me is practice. We're keeping it real. We're talking about real stuff which to me means dharma. And just hearing you say that something softens in me, but it also at the same time empowers me to keep connecting with that aspiration that aspiration that aspiration because the key for me especially when I'm with other people is to remember awareness.

awareness. awareness. That's where that's really the work because when as soon as we remember it's already here already here already here and taking some time to connect with it again and feel that maybe sense of protection that I talked about how I feel it it makes a huge difference but also to keep learning and keep being honest about when we weren't. And I find that just as helpful as sometimes kicking back and going, "Bar, well done. You didn't take the bait." And it went all smoothly.

all smoothly. all smoothly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A few things came up for me just listening to you just now. One is just to underline for the listener, Bart, when you're referencing insight dialogue or relational dharma that this is the topic of the conversation you had with Dan a few years ago, and we will we'll put a link in the show notes. It's a really rich, really practical conversation. Another thing that came up just when you were talking about how like often what's coming up for you in practice is actually sort of regret or guilt about how you interacted with a loved one.

That that really resonates for me too. And I feel like one of the ways I've been lucky with the people in my life is, you know, I've had multiple teachers teachers teachers really be really be really be quite firm and direct with me about the stakes of my practice as they relate to the people in my life. I think sometimes in western secular modern dharma, it can all feel soft and gentle and it's about you and it's about being calm. And there are certainly elements of that in the practice.

But I really have had [snorts] I I have multiple faces of teachers coming to mind right now as I'm talking of people who have really put a very fine point on what it means for my wife, what it means for my kids, what it means for my colleagues, when I'm practicing, when I'm committing versus when I'm not. And that's that's been a lot to take on, but it's I just I am grateful for that kind of directness. Yeah, I hear you. And I think a major point in practice is also to learn how to say no without coming from a place of aversion.

And it's like also being kind but firm when you say no to a child who's about either to hurt itself or you've set a boundary and of course they're going to test it. But also when you're doing your own meditation in a formal way and you see your mind going back into that same thought loop of what if thoughts that you've seen quite a few times sometimes I find it helpful then to say with that same voice as I would say no to Lou not whiny but present no thank you and so I think that sometimes in meditation it can feel like it's only about allowing and receiving It's an important component, yes, but it's also about skillfully saying no sometimes.

And not just no when you're in it, but also when you're about to. You probably caught a moment when you were about to say something again while the kids were not getting ready to go to school. And that's the power of repetitive mindful observation is you go, "Oh, there it is again." But you are present. You have that protection. And you might not say it and sometimes you'll still say it. That's what happens to me most of the times and then later on I go ah but even that is learning.

Even that is learning. So yeah, it's both saying yes to stuff but it's also about saying no. I want to see if I can squeeze in two more questions on awareness and then we'll wrap up by having you share a bit about these meditations you you're making for us. Mhm. Okay. So, the first of the two awareness questions, just thinking back to this word you've been using throughout this word protection. And one of the other ways that I feel like that's shown up for me, but I'm curious how this lands for you is I find that when I'm in the midst of a really difficult difficult difficult intrusive thought or repetitive thought or strong emotion, in those times where to your point where I do remember awareness and pull out a practice to try to to to let that experience or let that phenomen phenomenon, to use a Steven Levine phrase, float in something larger.

In those moments where it feels like I'm not just the anger or I'm not just the frustration or I'm not just the regret, but I'm the awareness that is aware of the regret. I'm the awareness that's holding the anger. Mhm. It also feels protective because it's [snorts] because the awareness is just it's imperturbable and in some ways it feels like it has nothing to do with me. It's like an opportunity to leave the entire psycho drama behind and just give it all a hug. And that that feels protective too.

too. too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Does that track for you? It does. It does. It does. The way it it kind of lands in my mind is that which knows there's anger or frustration is not angry or frustrated. That was a huge insight for me that even the part of me that knows there's breathing happening isn't the breath. The knowing is not what it knows. It's really quite special. I find it so worth of my limited time on this blue planet to keep remembering that cuz that's really where it's all about.

Remember that you can be aware and knowing that what awareness knows it isn't that. Don't ask me what it is, DJ. I know it's kind. I know it's receptive and spacious. I do feel like it's a protection. It's an availability, but it it's also it's quite special. [gasps] [gasps] [gasps] Well, that perfectly tees up my other question about awareness. And I'm a little bit um I feel some self-consciousness around asking it because it could open up an hour of dialogue and we probably have 2 or 3 minutes.

But the good news is that these meditations you're providing throughout January, many of them touch quite practically and quite specifically into exactly this thing that you're pointing to. Could you just say just a little bit about what you find practically works for people to help them sort of unlock this this thing? Yeah, maybe right now as you're listening, you might already notice that, oh, it's almost over. almost over. almost over. Maybe feel a sense of wanting to click away. The word that really sums it up, what DJ and I have been reflecting on is pause.

If you just pause right now, it's the pause that remembers And in it, we can connect with being aware. And we can be aware of, oh, this is about to end. Are we aware of our mind planning already? already? already? What if you take a moment just now and to know that you are mindful that all it takes is to pause and then remembering. And then what I do sometimes when I'm in this space this space this space is is is putting myself into a situation I'll be in pretty soon, like maybe having the kids back home from school.

What if I connect from this place again? What if I connect with a family member knowing that I can pause and connect with this place and just see what might be possible from that place? And that's how I then start to feel that sense of of protection that we've been talking about. Yeah, about. Yeah, about. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thanks for that. Yeah, beautiful. beautiful. beautiful. Truly. Last question now, and we we've already alluded to it, but you've got these halfozen meditations coming our way. I think listeners by this time in the episode probably have some sense of the flavor of what those will be, but is there just anything else you'd want to say or just just sort of an elevator pitch for what'll be in our ears and on our cushions for these next few weeks?

Shall I tell you my favorite, please? Perfect. please? Perfect. please? Perfect. My favorite and it's become a line in my own practice almost every day and I got it from this modern-day monk, venerable Analio, Analio, Analio, who did a PhD on the Buddhist teachings on mindfulness and I went to the conclusion to see what he wrote there and he said I can sum it up in four words for you. keep calmly calmly calmly knowing change. what really brings a lot of ease and ultimately harmony with this powerful truth of impermanence is to often connect with the flow of change.

sounds coming and going the breath breathing the endless the endless the endless mental activity in our mind. What if you just have to keep calmly notice change notice change notice change and that's will be one of the meditations that I'll offer. This one has really transformed me in so many ways because then you start to see that holding on even to this wonderful conversation I'm having with you is impossible. It will end. Your outreath right now has ended. So yeah, that's my I just wanted to share my favorite there.

[snorts] The rest is fine too. Hey, it's been such a pleasure Bart. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Likewise. Thank you, DJ. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you to DJ. Thank you to Bart. Don't forget to check out our new app, 10% with Dan Harris. You can get it over at danh harris.com. There's a free 30-day trial if you want to try before you buy. Finally, thank you very, very much to everybody who works so hard on this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasili.

Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.