Ben Horowitz and David Solomon: The Sweetest Macro Spot in 40 Years

We were the largest wholesale funder in We were the largest wholesale funder in the world 10 years ago. There are a lot the world 10 years ago. There are a lot the world 10 years ago. There are a lot of things you want to be the largest in of things you want to be the largest in of things you want to be the largest in the world. Wholesale fund not one of the world. Wholesale fund not one of the world. Wholesale fund not one of them. them. them. >> We got a lot of criticism like why are >> We got a lot of criticism like why are >> We got a lot of criticism like why are you raising money now? What are you you raising money now? What are you you raising money now? What are you stupid? And it turns out that the best stupid? And it turns out that the best stupid? And it turns out that the best time to raise money is when nobody has time to raise money is when nobody has time to raise money is when nobody has money. money. money. >> Last year the four largest companies >> Last year the four largest companies >> Last year the four largest companies contributed 1% to GDP growth with their contributed 1% to GDP growth with their contributed 1% to GDP growth with their $400 billion of spending. M&A and $400 billion of spending. M&A and $400 billion of spending. M&A and capital raising IPOs are driven by capital raising IPOs are driven by capital raising IPOs are driven by confidence. For the last four years, confidence. For the last four years, confidence. For the last four years, whatever the question was, the answer whatever the question was, the answer whatever the question was, the answer was no. Okay. Now, whatever the question was no. Okay. Now, whatever the question was no. Okay. Now, whatever the question is, the answer is maybe. David, you've is, the answer is maybe. David, you've is, the answer is maybe. David, you've been at Goldman now over 25 years. You been at Goldman now over 25 years. You been at Goldman now over 25 years. You know, what are you focused on to know, what are you focused on to know, what are you focused on to position Goldman for the future? position Goldman for the future? position Goldman for the future? >> If you're in our kind of businesses, if >> If you're in our kind of businesses, if >> If you're in our kind of businesses, if you're attached to financial assets, you're attached to financial assets, you're attached to financial assets, this is as sweet a spot that I've seen. this is as sweet a spot that I've seen. this is as sweet a spot that I've seen. >> With AI, if you have proprietary data >> With AI, if you have proprietary data >> With AI, if you have proprietary data and you have enough GPUs, you can solve and you have enough GPUs, you can solve and you have enough GPUs, you can solve like almost any problem. It is magic. I've had the distinct pleasure of I've had the distinct pleasure of working at least indirectly for both working at least indirectly for both working at least indirectly for both David Salman and and Ben Horwitz and uh David Salman and and Ben Horwitz and uh David Salman and and Ben Horwitz and uh have a lot of affection for both Goldman have a lot of affection for both Goldman have a lot of affection for both Goldman Sachs and A6Z. Um if you haven't read, I Sachs and A6Z. Um if you haven't read, I Sachs and A6Z. Um if you haven't read, I highly recommend reading the book The highly recommend reading the book The highly recommend reading the book The Partnership uh which is written by a guy Partnership uh which is written by a guy Partnership uh which is written by a guy named Charles Ellis which chronicles named Charles Ellis which chronicles named Charles Ellis which chronicles Goldman's nearly 160ear history. And I Goldman's nearly 160ear history. And I Goldman's nearly 160ear history. And I think the most remarkable thing about think the most remarkable thing about think the most remarkable thing about Goldman's history is the fact that it's Goldman's history is the fact that it's Goldman's history is the fact that it's not a business built through a series of not a business built through a series of not a business built through a series of bank mergers. Unlike many of its peers, bank mergers. Unlike many of its peers, bank mergers. Unlike many of its peers, it was really a business built brick by it was really a business built brick by it was really a business built brick by brick by generations of entrepreneurial brick by generations of entrepreneurial brick by generations of entrepreneurial partners raising their hand, going off partners raising their hand, going off partners raising their hand, going off and building new businesses, whether it and building new businesses, whether it and building new businesses, whether it was expanding into Europe or starting was expanding into Europe or starting was expanding into Europe or starting the merchant banking business or the the merchant banking business or the the merchant banking business or the wealth management division. You know, wealth management division. You know, wealth management division. You know, many of these business units became many of these business units became many of these business units became global franchises. And I'd argue that, global franchises. And I'd argue that, global franchises. And I'd argue that, you know, Goldman was and still is one you know, Goldman was and still is one you know, Goldman was and still is one of the most entrepreneurial financial of the most entrepreneurial financial of the most entrepreneurial financial institutions in the world. And as I institutions in the world. And as I institutions in the world. And as I think about where we are in our own think about where we are in our own think about where we are in our own evolution at Andre and Horowits, I kind evolution at Andre and Horowits, I kind evolution at Andre and Horowits, I kind of like to think that this is what of like to think that this is what of like to think that this is what Goldman Sachs must have felt like, you Goldman Sachs must have felt like, you Goldman Sachs must have felt like, you know, 50 or 75 years ago. You know, a know, 50 or 75 years ago. You know, a know, 50 or 75 years ago. You know, a small group of entrepreneurial investors small group of entrepreneurial investors small group of entrepreneurial investors betting on a future betting on a future betting on a future >> weren't as rich as you guys that that >> weren't as rich as you guys that that >> weren't as rich as you guys that that >> also Goldman stopped speaking to Sachs >> also Goldman stopped speaking to Sachs >> also Goldman stopped speaking to Sachs like forever. like forever. like forever. >> Like they got very mad at each other >> Like they got very mad at each other >> Like they got very mad at each other over was it Sachs who supported Germany over was it Sachs who supported Germany over was it Sachs who supported Germany in World War I? So he's you actually in World War I? So he's you actually in World War I? So he's you actually remember your history. Wow. Yeah. remember your history. Wow. Yeah. remember your history. Wow. Yeah. >> Um well, yeah, small partnership betting >> Um well, yeah, small partnership betting >> Um well, yeah, small partnership betting on the future with big hopes and on the future with big hopes and on the future with big hopes and ambitions. I'll I'll leave it at that. ambitions. I'll I'll leave it at that. ambitions. I'll I'll leave it at that. Um Um Um >> well done, David. >> well done, David. >> well done, David. >> Thank you. Um but maybe, yeah, maybe >> Thank you. Um but maybe, yeah, maybe >> Thank you. Um but maybe, yeah, maybe just, you know, pulling on that thread, just, you know, pulling on that thread, just, you know, pulling on that thread, um you know, David, you've been at at um you know, David, you've been at at um you know, David, you've been at at Goldman now over 25 years. You joined Goldman now over 25 years. You joined Goldman now over 25 years. You joined the firm, I believe, in in 1999, just the firm, I believe, in in 1999, just the firm, I believe, in in 1999, just after the firm's IPO, you know, how has after the firm's IPO, you know, how has after the firm's IPO, you know, how has the firm evolved during your tenure? And the firm evolved during your tenure? And the firm evolved during your tenure? And maybe more importantly, um you know, maybe more importantly, um you know, maybe more importantly, um you know, what are you focused on to position what are you focused on to position what are you focused on to position Goldman for the future? Goldman for the future? Goldman for the future? Oh, before before first of all, it's Oh, before before first of all, it's Oh, before before first of all, it's great to be here. Great to be with great to be here. Great to be with great to be here. Great to be with everybody. Before I start on that, I everybody. Before I start on that, I everybody. Before I start on that, I just say one of the big lessons I have just say one of the big lessons I have just say one of the big lessons I have in my life is if you're joining a new in my life is if you're joining a new in my life is if you're joining a new firm, it's a private partnership. Don't firm, it's a private partnership. Don't firm, it's a private partnership. Don't spend six months negotiating so you spend six months negotiating so you spend six months negotiating so you carry over past the IPO date. Join join carry over past the IPO date. Join join carry over past the IPO date. Join join before join before the IPO. It's a good before join before the IPO. It's a good before join before the IPO. It's a good good lesson for all of you in private good lesson for all of you in private good lesson for all of you in private partnerships. Um, you know, it's it's partnerships. Um, you know, it's it's partnerships. Um, you know, it's it's the firm's a remarkable place and I the firm's a remarkable place and I the firm's a remarkable place and I really appreciate what you said about really appreciate what you said about really appreciate what you said about the firm and the entrepreneurial spirit the firm and the entrepreneurial spirit the firm and the entrepreneurial spirit of the firm. The firm was for a long of the firm. The firm was for a long of the firm. The firm was for a long time a private partnership. And the time a private partnership. And the time a private partnership. And the thing about private partnerships is you thing about private partnerships is you thing about private partnerships is you have this mutual agency where people go have this mutual agency where people go have this mutual agency where people go off and they do things. There's some off and they do things. There's some off and they do things. There's some structure that creates a collective each structure that creates a collective each structure that creates a collective each year or each cycle where everything year or each cycle where everything year or each cycle where everything comes back and then there's a comes back and then there's a comes back and then there's a re-evaluation of the partnership shares re-evaluation of the partnership shares re-evaluation of the partnership shares and you go off again, you know, into the and you go off again, you know, into the and you go off again, you know, into the future to do more. And that served the future to do more. And that served the future to do more. And that served the firm incredibly well and the firm stayed firm incredibly well and the firm stayed firm incredibly well and the firm stayed a partnership much longer than than any a partnership much longer than than any a partnership much longer than than any other real totally other real totally other real totally >> big Wall Street firm. But I I'd like to >> big Wall Street firm. But I I'd like to >> big Wall Street firm. But I I'd like to say that the firm stayed a partnership say that the firm stayed a partnership say that the firm stayed a partnership until the last moment when it absolutely until the last moment when it absolutely until the last moment when it absolutely couldn't be a partnership anymore couldn't be a partnership anymore couldn't be a partnership anymore because it needed the permanent capital because it needed the permanent capital because it needed the permanent capital to really make it a relevant business. to really make it a relevant business. to really make it a relevant business. If the firm hadn't gone public in 1999, If the firm hadn't gone public in 1999, If the firm hadn't gone public in 1999, it would have missed kind of the global it would have missed kind of the global it would have missed kind of the global expansion of capital markets and expansion of capital markets and expansion of capital markets and probably would look more like, not to probably would look more like, not to probably would look more like, not to pick on anybody, but just to pick any pick on anybody, but just to pick any pick on anybody, but just to pick any more like Lazard more like Lazard more like Lazard >> today than than like Goldman Sachs. And >> today than than like Goldman Sachs. And >> today than than like Goldman Sachs. And so, you know, the stewards of the firm so, you know, the stewards of the firm so, you know, the stewards of the firm at that point did an incredible job. I at that point did an incredible job. I at that point did an incredible job. I think the challenge for us over the last think the challenge for us over the last think the challenge for us over the last 25 years and I think you know the 25 years and I think you know the 25 years and I think you know the leadership team over the last eight leadership team over the last eight leadership team over the last eight years has really done an incredible job years has really done an incredible job years has really done an incredible job at this working together to do this is at this working together to do this is at this working together to do this is somehow 25 years after an IPO we still somehow 25 years after an IPO we still somehow 25 years after an IPO we still have this partnership culture it's have this partnership culture it's have this partnership culture it's highly aspirational every two years to highly aspirational every two years to highly aspirational every two years to become a partner of Goldman Sachs we become a partner of Goldman Sachs we become a partner of Goldman Sachs we have 450 people who really are have 450 people who really are have 450 people who really are compensated and a correlation to how the compensated and a correlation to how the compensated and a correlation to how the overall enterprise does um but the big overall enterprise does um but the big overall enterprise does um but the big thing that that I'm really proud of that thing that that I'm really proud of that thing that that I'm really proud of that as a broad leadership we've done is as a broad leadership we've done is as a broad leadership we've done is We've started to recognize that that We've started to recognize that that We've started to recognize that that we're not a small private partnership we're not a small private partnership we're not a small private partnership and you can't be a public company and and you can't be a public company and and you can't be a public company and not grow and have some form of top down not grow and have some form of top down not grow and have some form of top down strategic direction. Yeah. That that strategic direction. Yeah. That that strategic direction. Yeah. That that really gets the whole thing making, you really gets the whole thing making, you really gets the whole thing making, you know, the 1 plus 1 plus 1 plus one know, the 1 plus 1 plus 1 plus one know, the 1 plus 1 plus 1 plus one equal, you know, more than what the math equal, you know, more than what the math equal, you know, more than what the math adds up to. And that's been a journey adds up to. And that's been a journey adds up to. And that's been a journey and it's been bumpy. You were there for and it's been bumpy. You were there for and it's been bumpy. You were there for part of those bumps. part of those bumps. part of those bumps. >> True. Um but um but I think we've we've >> True. Um but um but I think we've we've >> True. Um but um but I think we've we've navigated well and I you know we've got navigated well and I you know we've got navigated well and I you know we've got I I I still think you know the I I I still think you know the I I I still think you know the principles the values that we kind of principles the values that we kind of principles the values that we kind of sit upon as a firm. We really strive to sit upon as a firm. We really strive to sit upon as a firm. We really strive to be the most exceptional financial be the most exceptional financial be the most exceptional financial institution in the world. We don't institution in the world. We don't institution in the world. We don't always get there but we strive for that always get there but we strive for that always get there but we strive for that and you know we really sit on four core and you know we really sit on four core and you know we really sit on four core values of client service, partnership, values of client service, partnership, values of client service, partnership, integrity and excellence. Try to live it integrity and excellence. Try to live it integrity and excellence. Try to live it and um and I think the firm's in a and um and I think the firm's in a and um and I think the firm's in a really good place. But it's it's in some really good place. But it's it's in some really good place. But it's it's in some ways it hasn't changed at all in 26 ways it hasn't changed at all in 26 ways it hasn't changed at all in 26 years. In some ways it's changed. It's years. In some ways it's changed. It's years. In some ways it's changed. It's changed massively. changed massively. changed massively. >> Are there a few things you're most >> Are there a few things you're most >> Are there a few things you're most focused on as CEO kind of looking focused on as CEO kind of looking focused on as CEO kind of looking forward, you know, for the next five or forward, you know, for the next five or forward, you know, for the next five or ten years? ten years? ten years? >> Sure. You know, one of the things I've I >> Sure. You know, one of the things I've I >> Sure. You know, one of the things I've I I was a banker and I advised CEOs for a I was a banker and I advised CEOs for a I was a banker and I advised CEOs for a lot of my career, but actually owning lot of my career, but actually owning lot of my career, but actually owning the responsibility. That's one of my big the responsibility. That's one of my big the responsibility. That's one of my big takeaways the last eight years is very takeaways the last eight years is very takeaways the last eight years is very different than um than giving advice. different than um than giving advice. different than um than giving advice. You know, I think the most important You know, I think the most important You know, I think the most important thing that a CEO has to do in a big thing that a CEO has to do in a big thing that a CEO has to do in a big enterprise like this is they have to enterprise like this is they have to enterprise like this is they have to kind of own the strategy and the kind of own the strategy and the kind of own the strategy and the direction of the firm. And you know, I'm direction of the firm. And you know, I'm direction of the firm. And you know, I'm focused on how we ensure we're executing focused on how we ensure we're executing focused on how we ensure we're executing toward growing the firm because I know toward growing the firm because I know toward growing the firm because I know we have to do that to perform on a we have to do that to perform on a we have to do that to perform on a relative basis. But then I'm also relative basis. But then I'm also relative basis. But then I'm also thinking about and worrying about, you thinking about and worrying about, you thinking about and worrying about, you know, big picture strategic risks that know, big picture strategic risks that know, big picture strategic risks that can make the firm less relevant, less can make the firm less relevant, less can make the firm less relevant, less successful, less important, less successful, less important, less successful, less important, less competitive. And you know for us I think competitive. And you know for us I think competitive. And you know for us I think there are two things that the firm is there are two things that the firm is there are two things that the firm is really focused on. I think first of all really focused on. I think first of all really focused on. I think first of all one of the one of the things that makes one of the one of the things that makes one of the one of the things that makes the United States an extraordinary place the United States an extraordinary place the United States an extraordinary place is we have the most extraordinary is we have the most extraordinary is we have the most extraordinary capital markets most extraordinary capital markets most extraordinary capital markets most extraordinary financial system. The most extraordinary financial system. The most extraordinary financial system. The most extraordinary financial institutions. I would argue financial institutions. I would argue financial institutions. I would argue that the six most important financial that the six most important financial that the six most important financial institutions in the US are all US institutions in the US are all US institutions in the US are all US financial institutions and there is no financial institutions and there is no financial institutions and there is no global institution that can compete in global institution that can compete in global institution that can compete in terms of its relevance in the world with terms of its relevance in the world with terms of its relevance in the world with the six most important US institutions. the six most important US institutions. the six most important US institutions. When you look at those institutions, When you look at those institutions, When you look at those institutions, there are there are different kinds of there are there are different kinds of there are there are different kinds of institutions. There are retail banks, institutions. There are retail banks, institutions. There are retail banks, more traditional banky banks. Um that more traditional banky banks. Um that more traditional banky banks. Um that would include JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, would include JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, would include JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, City Bank. They all Bank of America, City Bank. They all Bank of America, City Bank. They all have global businesses, but they are have global businesses, but they are have global businesses, but they are truly banks and what they do. They have truly banks and what they do. They have truly banks and what they do. They have retail platforms, retail businesses. And retail platforms, retail businesses. And retail platforms, retail businesses. And then you've got two institutional firms. then you've got two institutional firms. then you've got two institutional firms. That doesn't mean they don't touch That doesn't mean they don't touch That doesn't mean they don't touch individuals in different ways, but individuals in different ways, but individuals in different ways, but Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs are Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs are Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs are both institutional firms. And Goldman both institutional firms. And Goldman both institutional firms. And Goldman Sachs is a little bit of an island of Sachs is a little bit of an island of Sachs is a little bit of an island of one in the context of the way we're one in the context of the way we're one in the context of the way we're positioned as an institutional firm. And positioned as an institutional firm. And positioned as an institutional firm. And Morgan Stanley is a little bit of an Morgan Stanley is a little bit of an Morgan Stanley is a little bit of an island to one in terms of the way island to one in terms of the way island to one in terms of the way they're positioned. they're positioned. they're positioned. Scale matters a lot Scale matters a lot Scale matters a lot >> and I just went through all those firms. >> and I just went through all those firms. >> and I just went through all those firms. The two smallest firms of all those The two smallest firms of all those The two smallest firms of all those firms are Goldman Sachs and Morgan and firms are Goldman Sachs and Morgan and firms are Goldman Sachs and Morgan and Stamale. And so when there's turbulence Stamale. And so when there's turbulence Stamale. And so when there's turbulence in the world, you always want scale. in the world, you always want scale. in the world, you always want scale. scale in these businesses because scale in these businesses because scale in these businesses because they're so mature gives you enormous they're so mature gives you enormous they're so mature gives you enormous leverage and latitude. leverage and latitude. leverage and latitude. >> And so we continue to think a lot about >> And so we continue to think a lot about >> And so we continue to think a lot about scale and we think out 5 10 15 years how scale and we think out 5 10 15 years how scale and we think out 5 10 15 years how are we going to maintain a level of are we going to maintain a level of are we going to maintain a level of scale that makes us competitive? scale that makes us competitive? scale that makes us competitive? 10 years ago um it would be in 10 years ago um it would be in 10 years ago um it would be in unfathomable that Goldman Sachs could unfathomable that Goldman Sachs could unfathomable that Goldman Sachs could have a $ 1.9 trillion balance sheet have a $ 1.9 trillion balance sheet have a $ 1.9 trillion balance sheet >> but at the moment JP Morgan has a$4.5 >> but at the moment JP Morgan has a$4.5 >> but at the moment JP Morgan has a$4.5 trillion dollar balance sheet. when JP trillion dollar balance sheet. when JP trillion dollar balance sheet. when JP Morgan's six, we're gonna have to be at Morgan's six, we're gonna have to be at Morgan's six, we're gonna have to be at least three and a half, least three and a half, least three and a half, >> you know, at least three and a half. And >> you know, at least three and a half. And >> you know, at least three and a half. And so, we have to think about how we can so, we have to think about how we can so, we have to think about how we can continue to create that scale because continue to create that scale because continue to create that scale because these are very mature businesses and these are very mature businesses and these are very mature businesses and it's hard to really build that scale um it's hard to really build that scale um it's hard to really build that scale um you know, just purely organically. So, you know, just purely organically. So, you know, just purely organically. So, that's one. Two, funding. Funding these that's one. Two, funding. Funding these that's one. Two, funding. Funding these enterprises is one of the big strategic enterprises is one of the big strategic enterprises is one of the big strategic risks to these enterprises. These risks to these enterprises. These risks to these enterprises. These enterprises live on funding and enterprises live on funding and enterprises live on funding and liquidity and you know we don't have a liquidity and you know we don't have a liquidity and you know we don't have a traditional deposit funding platform. traditional deposit funding platform. traditional deposit funding platform. We've got and you participated in this a We've got and you participated in this a We've got and you participated in this a very excellent digital deposit platform very excellent digital deposit platform very excellent digital deposit platform that now has you know over $200 billion that now has you know over $200 billion that now has you know over $200 billion in deposits and we've also we have about in deposits and we've also we have about in deposits and we've also we have about $500 billion of total deposits. 15 years $500 billion of total deposits. 15 years $500 billion of total deposits. 15 years ago we had zero. ago we had zero. ago we had zero. >> So we fund about 40% of the firm >> So we fund about 40% of the firm >> So we fund about 40% of the firm deposits but deposits is a much more deposits but deposits is a much more deposits but deposits is a much more stable funding source than institutional stable funding source than institutional stable funding source than institutional wholesale funding. wholesale funding. wholesale funding. >> Commercial paper. >> Commercial paper. >> Commercial paper. >> Yeah. We were we were the largest >> Yeah. We were we were the largest >> Yeah. We were we were the largest wholesale funer in the world 10 years wholesale funer in the world 10 years wholesale funer in the world 10 years ago. There are a lot of things you want ago. There are a lot of things you want ago. There are a lot of things you want to be the largest in the world. to be the largest in the world. to be the largest in the world. Wholesale fun not one of them. Um and so Wholesale fun not one of them. Um and so Wholesale fun not one of them. Um and so um that strategically is another thing um that strategically is another thing um that strategically is another thing we were about. So those are big things we were about. So those are big things we were about. So those are big things on stepping back and getting away from on stepping back and getting away from on stepping back and getting away from the execution dayto-day and thinking 10 the execution dayto-day and thinking 10 the execution dayto-day and thinking 10 15 20 years which by the way I won't be 15 20 years which by the way I won't be 15 20 years which by the way I won't be here running the firm but it's still my here running the firm but it's still my here running the firm but it's still my responsibility responsibility responsibility >> to steward and and chart that. I worry >> to steward and and chart that. I worry >> to steward and and chart that. I worry about that in the short term you know about that in the short term you know about that in the short term you know much more focused on technology across much more focused on technology across much more focused on technology across the organization. and how technology the organization. and how technology the organization. and how technology shifts the way we do things, how we're shifts the way we do things, how we're shifts the way we do things, how we're rebuilding processes, operating rebuilding processes, operating rebuilding processes, operating differently while staying true to what differently while staying true to what differently while staying true to what we do. we do. we do. >> Awesome. Well, we're here to help with >> Awesome. Well, we're here to help with >> Awesome. Well, we're here to help with that today, too. that today, too. that today, too. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Um Ben, maybe uh transitioning to you. >> Um Ben, maybe uh transitioning to you. >> Um Ben, maybe uh transitioning to you. Um you know, you and Mark started the Um you know, you and Mark started the Um you know, you and Mark started the firm at an auspicious time uh in the firm at an auspicious time uh in the firm at an auspicious time uh in the wake of the financial crisis in 2009. wake of the financial crisis in 2009. wake of the financial crisis in 2009. >> 2009. >> 2009. >> 2009. >> Um you know, it turned out to be a >> Um you know, it turned out to be a >> Um you know, it turned out to be a really interesting moment because it really interesting moment because it really interesting moment because it was, you know, the beginning of mobile was, you know, the beginning of mobile was, you know, the beginning of mobile and the rise of the cloud. and the rise of the cloud. and the rise of the cloud. >> Well, it's funny also, you know, we got >> Well, it's funny also, you know, we got >> Well, it's funny also, you know, we got a lot of criticism. um in kind of a lot of criticism. um in kind of a lot of criticism. um in kind of venture capital like why are you raising venture capital like why are you raising venture capital like why are you raising money now like what are you stupid um money now like what are you stupid um money now like what are you stupid um and it turns out that the best time to and it turns out that the best time to and it turns out that the best time to raise money is when nobody has money I raise money is when nobody has money I raise money is when nobody has money I mean like it's it's very obvious in you mean like it's it's very obvious in you mean like it's it's very obvious in you know when you say it that way but uh know when you say it that way but uh know when you say it that way but uh >> just the nature of investing is people >> just the nature of investing is people >> just the nature of investing is people always want to invest you know high and always want to invest you know high and always want to invest you know high and they always want to walk away when the they always want to walk away when the they always want to walk away when the market is low and it just is uh is one market is low and it just is uh is one market is low and it just is uh is one of those things so we we got very of those things so we we got very of those things so we we got very fortunate that I think. Yeah. fortunate that I think. Yeah. fortunate that I think. Yeah. >> Maybe you can kind of describe the >> Maybe you can kind of describe the >> Maybe you can kind of describe the evolution of the firm, you know, since evolution of the firm, you know, since evolution of the firm, you know, since you started and and again maybe what you started and and again maybe what you started and and again maybe what your ambitions are, you know, for the your ambitions are, you know, for the your ambitions are, you know, for the future as well. future as well. future as well. >> Yeah. So the original idea and in >> Yeah. So the original idea and in >> Yeah. So the original idea and in venture capital like the the fundamental venture capital like the the fundamental venture capital like the the fundamental thing that you have to be is you have to thing that you have to be is you have to thing that you have to be is you have to be what's known as top tier because if be what's known as top tier because if be what's known as top tier because if you're not top tier then the best you're not top tier then the best you're not top tier then the best entrepreneurs won't take your money. And entrepreneurs won't take your money. And entrepreneurs won't take your money. And so like there are times when you can, so like there are times when you can, so like there are times when you can, you know, when the market is so blazing you know, when the market is so blazing you know, when the market is so blazing hot that, you know, you can be like a hot that, you know, you can be like a hot that, you know, you can be like a not important venture capital firm and not important venture capital firm and not important venture capital firm and dump into good deals and make money, but dump into good deals and make money, but dump into good deals and make money, but in most times if you're not top tier, uh in most times if you're not top tier, uh in most times if you're not top tier, uh you're going to go out of business and you're going to go out of business and you're going to go out of business and um and and so you have to be that. And um and and so you have to be that. And um and and so you have to be that. And and the difficult thing about being top and the difficult thing about being top and the difficult thing about being top tier is historically the way you became tier is historically the way you became tier is historically the way you became top tier was reputationally. So if top tier was reputationally. So if top tier was reputationally. So if you're a Sequoia, you had invested in you're a Sequoia, you had invested in you're a Sequoia, you had invested in Apple and Cisco and Yahoo and Google. Apple and Cisco and Yahoo and Google. Apple and Cisco and Yahoo and Google. And so it's really hard to make up that And so it's really hard to make up that And so it's really hard to make up that ground if you're starting in 2009. ground if you're starting in 2009. ground if you're starting in 2009. So the idea we had originally to get to So the idea we had originally to get to So the idea we had originally to get to top tier was um to basically have a top tier was um to basically have a top tier was um to basically have a better product, a better product better product, a better product better product, a better product specifically for entrepreneurs. So the specifically for entrepreneurs. So the specifically for entrepreneurs. So the venture capital product was great for venture capital product was great for venture capital product was great for LPs and um but we thought mediocre for LPs and um but we thought mediocre for LPs and um but we thought mediocre for entrepreneurs. So we designed the firm entrepreneurs. So we designed the firm entrepreneurs. So we designed the firm uh to basically really enable a founder uh to basically really enable a founder uh to basically really enable a founder to uh basically build his or her own to uh basically build his or her own to uh basically build his or her own company um and run it uh as CEO which company um and run it uh as CEO which company um and run it uh as CEO which wasn't kind of an idea then the idea was wasn't kind of an idea then the idea was wasn't kind of an idea then the idea was much more to replace the founder um and much more to replace the founder um and much more to replace the founder um and you know there's a lot that went into it you know there's a lot that went into it you know there's a lot that went into it and because we were founders we knew and because we were founders we knew and because we were founders we knew what that was and so we kind of created what that was and so we kind of created what that was and so we kind of created a firm to give a founder like a brand a firm to give a founder like a brand a firm to give a founder like a brand and power and access and all these kinds and power and access and all these kinds and power and access and all these kinds of things. Uh VC said they did, but they of things. Uh VC said they did, but they of things. Uh VC said they did, but they they didn't have to because like they they didn't have to because like they they didn't have to because like they were top tier. It didn't matter. Uh and were top tier. It didn't matter. Uh and were top tier. It didn't matter. Uh and so we did that and that's kind of how we so we did that and that's kind of how we so we did that and that's kind of how we got into position to kind of be a got into position to kind of be a got into position to kind of be a longlasting firm. The second phase uh longlasting firm. The second phase uh longlasting firm. The second phase uh was really kind of based on something was really kind of based on something was really kind of based on something that Mark wrote in 2011 called software that Mark wrote in 2011 called software that Mark wrote in 2011 called software is eating the world. And the idea with is eating the world. And the idea with is eating the world. And the idea with software as eating the world was software as eating the world was software as eating the world was basically uh if you looked at venture basically uh if you looked at venture basically uh if you looked at venture capital up to that point there were capital up to that point there were capital up to that point there were these studies that said in any given these studies that said in any given these studies that said in any given year there are going to be 15 you know year there are going to be 15 you know year there are going to be 15 you know approximately 15 technology companies approximately 15 technology companies approximately 15 technology companies that get to 100 million in revenue that get to 100 million in revenue that get to 100 million in revenue and those are going to be the companies and those are going to be the companies and those are going to be the companies that are worth money and nothing else is that are worth money and nothing else is that are worth money and nothing else is going to be worth money. So the whole going to be worth money. So the whole going to be worth money. So the whole venture capital sport was how many of venture capital sport was how many of venture capital sport was how many of those 15 can you get into? Uh those 15 can you get into? Uh those 15 can you get into? Uh now with software if software was going now with software if software was going now with software if software was going to eat the world though we thought well to eat the world though we thought well to eat the world though we thought well maybe that 15 is going to be 150. Um and maybe that 15 is going to be 150. Um and maybe that 15 is going to be 150. Um and maybe one of the features of a venture maybe one of the features of a venture maybe one of the features of a venture capital firm is going to be you're going capital firm is going to be you're going capital firm is going to be you're going to have to be able to scale it. uh and to have to be able to scale it. uh and to have to be able to scale it. uh and none of the you know traditionally none of the you know traditionally none of the you know traditionally I remember Dave Swenson the great Dave I remember Dave Swenson the great Dave I remember Dave Swenson the great Dave Swinson RIP saying to me who was the uh Swinson RIP saying to me who was the uh Swinson RIP saying to me who was the uh ran the Yale endowment for years he said ran the Yale endowment for years he said ran the Yale endowment for years he said you know a good venture capital firm's you know a good venture capital firm's you know a good venture capital firm's like a basketball team you know five like a basketball team you know five like a basketball team you know five maybe six players that's it uh but you maybe six players that's it uh but you maybe six players that's it uh but you can't address you know a market where can't address you know a market where can't address you know a market where you have to be in 150 companies with six you have to be in 150 companies with six you have to be in 150 companies with six players so how do you organize how do players so how do you organize how do players so how do you organize how do you scale how do you design the firm so you scale how do you design the firm so you scale how do you design the firm so that you can get to the whole that you can get to the whole that you can get to the whole opportunity opportunity opportunity and yet still be like really really good and yet still be like really really good and yet still be like really really good at investing and not have more than five at investing and not have more than five at investing and not have more than five or six people talking about a deal. Uh or six people talking about a deal. Uh or six people talking about a deal. Uh and so that was sort of phase two and and so that was sort of phase two and and so that was sort of phase two and and that's really kind of I would say and that's really kind of I would say and that's really kind of I would say when we somewhat left the building in when we somewhat left the building in when we somewhat left the building in terms of um you know what was going on terms of um you know what was going on terms of um you know what was going on Silicon Valley uh because nobody else Silicon Valley uh because nobody else Silicon Valley uh because nobody else was thinking that way. And so this last was thinking that way. And so this last was thinking that way. And so this last year 2025 about 18 what is it 18.3% of year 2025 about 18 what is it 18.3% of year 2025 about 18 what is it 18.3% of all venture capital raised in the US was all venture capital raised in the US was all venture capital raised in the US was raised by us. So we're we're now like raised by us. So we're we're now like raised by us. So we're we're now like from tier one to the biggest um and from tier one to the biggest um and from tier one to the biggest um and going forward what I think that looks going forward what I think that looks going forward what I think that looks like is like is like is and then I I get a lot of this thinking and then I I get a lot of this thinking and then I I get a lot of this thinking my uh my old mentor was uh Andy Grove um my uh my old mentor was uh Andy Grove um my uh my old mentor was uh Andy Grove um you know it was actually at the end of you know it was actually at the end of you know it was actually at the end of his life but one of the things he said his life but one of the things he said his life but one of the things he said to me that I always remember and for for to me that I always remember and for for to me that I always remember and for for me for those of you who don't know him me for those of you who don't know him me for those of you who don't know him he was uh you know he ran Intel and he he was uh you know he ran Intel and he he was uh you know he ran Intel and he got it through that great memory crisis got it through that great memory crisis got it through that great memory crisis and and changed the company probably the and and changed the company probably the and and changed the company probably the greatest tech CEO we've seen. Um but he greatest tech CEO we've seen. Um but he greatest tech CEO we've seen. Um but he said something that is very obvious in a said something that is very obvious in a said something that is very obvious in a way but also profound which was you know way but also profound which was you know way but also profound which was you know if you're the leader of an industry if you're the leader of an industry if you're the leader of an industry um then the growth of that industry um then the growth of that industry um then the growth of that industry depends on you. Uh you have to grow the depends on you. Uh you have to grow the depends on you. Uh you have to grow the market like nobody else is going to do market like nobody else is going to do market like nobody else is going to do it. It's not going to like that that is it. It's not going to like that that is it. It's not going to like that that is coming on you. And he he really took coming on you. And he he really took coming on you. And he he really took that seriously at Intel. And so when I that seriously at Intel. And so when I that seriously at Intel. And so when I think about you know what we are as a think about you know what we are as a think about you know what we are as a firm a lot of it is firm a lot of it is firm a lot of it is you know it's incumbent on us and a lot you know it's incumbent on us and a lot you know it's incumbent on us and a lot of the work that we've done on policy of the work that we've done on policy of the work that we've done on policy for crypto and um things that we're for crypto and um things that we're for crypto and um things that we're doing internationally things we're doing doing internationally things we're doing doing internationally things we're doing on American dynamism is like how do we on American dynamism is like how do we on American dynamism is like how do we win not just you know we Andrea win not just you know we Andrea win not just you know we Andrea Horowitzman but how does the country win Horowitzman but how does the country win Horowitzman but how does the country win technologically how do we uh continue to technologically how do we uh continue to technologically how do we uh continue to compete with China how do we uh be compete with China how do we uh be compete with China how do we uh be relevant in the next hundred years like relevant in the next hundred years like relevant in the next hundred years like we were in the last hundred years and so we were in the last hundred years and so we were in the last hundred years and so and And that drives backwards into how and And that drives backwards into how and And that drives backwards into how we think about how we have to develop we think about how we have to develop we think about how we have to develop some horiz. some horiz. some horiz. >> Awesome. Maybe maybe we'll transition >> Awesome. Maybe maybe we'll transition >> Awesome. Maybe maybe we'll transition just a little bit to to markets. Um, you just a little bit to to markets. Um, you just a little bit to to markets. Um, you know, David, you know, how would you know, David, you know, how would you know, David, you know, how would you describe kind of the macro environment? describe kind of the macro environment? describe kind of the macro environment? You know, what are you hearing from the You know, what are you hearing from the You know, what are you hearing from the CEOs that you, you know, work and advise CEOs that you, you know, work and advise CEOs that you, you know, work and advise most closely? most closely? most closely? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. You know, first Justin and and and Ben You know, first Justin and and and Ben You know, first Justin and and and Ben and I were talking about this. If um and I were talking about this. If um and I were talking about this. If um >> good times >> good times >> good times >> if you're in um if you're in our kind of >> if you're in um if you're in our kind of >> if you're in um if you're in our kind of businesses, if you're attached to businesses, if you're attached to businesses, if you're attached to financial assets or investable assets, financial assets or investable assets, financial assets or investable assets, um this is, you know, I've been doing um this is, you know, I've been doing um this is, you know, I've been doing this for 40ome years. This is as sweet a this for 40ome years. This is as sweet a this for 40ome years. This is as sweet a spot um that that I've seen kind of spot um that that I've seen kind of spot um that that I've seen kind of macro picture. Now, that doesn't mean macro picture. Now, that doesn't mean macro picture. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't all sorts of there aren't all sorts of there aren't all sorts of um difficult complex things going on in um difficult complex things going on in um difficult complex things going on in the world, but I think we're at a the world, but I think we're at a the world, but I think we're at a moment. Let's just be here in the United moment. Let's just be here in the United moment. Let's just be here in the United States for a minute. can go around the States for a minute. can go around the States for a minute. can go around the world and talk about anywhere you want, world and talk about anywhere you want, world and talk about anywhere you want, but let's just start here in the United but let's just start here in the United but let's just start here in the United States. States. States. The combination of the significant The combination of the significant The combination of the significant amount in continued continuing to amount in continued continuing to amount in continued continuing to increase fiscal stimulus, increase fiscal stimulus, increase fiscal stimulus, and by the way, the big beautiful bill and by the way, the big beautiful bill and by the way, the big beautiful bill that started in 26 just adds more to that started in 26 just adds more to that started in 26 just adds more to that. It's not that we weren't in a very that. It's not that we weren't in a very that. It's not that we weren't in a very stimulative place, we just added a whole stimulative place, we just added a whole stimulative place, we just added a whole bunch more. We have fiscal stimulus, we bunch more. We have fiscal stimulus, we bunch more. We have fiscal stimulus, we have monetary stimulus because we're in have monetary stimulus because we're in have monetary stimulus because we're in a rate cutting cycle. That doesn't mean a rate cutting cycle. That doesn't mean a rate cutting cycle. That doesn't mean I think we're going to see many more I think we're going to see many more I think we're going to see many more rate cuts, but we're probably going to rate cuts, but we're probably going to rate cuts, but we're probably going to see a couple more. We are in a capital see a couple more. We are in a capital see a couple more. We are in a capital investment super cycle, investment super cycle, investment super cycle, like something we've never seen. Last like something we've never seen. Last like something we've never seen. Last year, the four largest companies year, the four largest companies year, the four largest companies contributed 1% to GDP growth with their contributed 1% to GDP growth with their contributed 1% to GDP growth with their 400 billion of spending. Um we are in a 400 billion of spending. Um we are in a 400 billion of spending. Um we are in a deregulatory deregulatory deregulatory um um um unwind cycle from a massive regulatory unwind cycle from a massive regulatory unwind cycle from a massive regulatory surge during the last administration to surge during the last administration to surge during the last administration to a deregulatory windback that is very a deregulatory windback that is very a deregulatory windback that is very stimulative. All these things it's it's stimulative. All these things it's it's stimulative. All these things it's it's just such a cocktail of stimulus that just such a cocktail of stimulus that just such a cocktail of stimulus that it's very very hard to slow the economy it's very very hard to slow the economy it's very very hard to slow the economy down. And while average Americans down. And while average Americans down. And while average Americans definitely feel a lot of stress because definitely feel a lot of stress because definitely feel a lot of stress because everything's more expensive. You could everything's more expensive. You could everything's more expensive. You could talk about inflation going from 9 to talk about inflation going from 9 to talk about inflation going from 9 to three, but the bottom line is everything three, but the bottom line is everything three, but the bottom line is everything is 25 to 30% more expensive. And that's is 25 to 30% more expensive. And that's is 25 to 30% more expensive. And that's the way Americans feel it. There's the way Americans feel it. There's the way Americans feel it. There's pressure, but at the same time, there's pressure, but at the same time, there's pressure, but at the same time, there's enormous financial leverage that keeps enormous financial leverage that keeps enormous financial leverage that keeps the economy going and it makes the the economy going and it makes the the economy going and it makes the economy a little bit more versatile. And economy a little bit more versatile. And economy a little bit more versatile. And so, if you own monetary assets or so, if you own monetary assets or so, if you own monetary assets or investable assets, um, if you're around investable assets, um, if you're around investable assets, um, if you're around growth and technology, these are pretty growth and technology, these are pretty growth and technology, these are pretty this is a pretty prime environment. I'll this is a pretty prime environment. I'll this is a pretty prime environment. I'll give you a hundred things that can set give you a hundred things that can set give you a hundred things that can set it off. Um, last April, you know, if you it off. Um, last April, you know, if you it off. Um, last April, you know, if you were if you were in Davos last January, were if you were in Davos last January, were if you were in Davos last January, people felt the same way. And then in people felt the same way. And then in people felt the same way. And then in April, we had a speed bump, but was all April, we had a speed bump, but was all April, we had a speed bump, but was all of you short speed bump. And I think one of you short speed bump. And I think one of you short speed bump. And I think one of the things that also has there are of the things that also has there are of the things that also has there are two things that I think has the market two things that I think has the market two things that I think has the market moving ahead. One, you've got a moving ahead. One, you've got a moving ahead. One, you've got a president that if you look at the speed president that if you look at the speed president that if you look at the speed bump last April, he marks to market to bump last April, he marks to market to bump last April, he marks to market to that market every single day. And the that market every single day. And the that market every single day. And the market's going in the wrong direction, market's going in the wrong direction, market's going in the wrong direction, he has no problem adjusting very, very he has no problem adjusting very, very he has no problem adjusting very, very quickly. And number two, the quickly. And number two, the quickly. And number two, the productivity gains from AI investment productivity gains from AI investment productivity gains from AI investment and putting it into the enterprise and and putting it into the enterprise and and putting it into the enterprise and having the enterprise pick it up. The having the enterprise pick it up. The having the enterprise pick it up. The market is pulling forward a lot of what market is pulling forward a lot of what market is pulling forward a lot of what they expect to be delivered over the they expect to be delivered over the they expect to be delivered over the next 1, two, three, four years. next 1, two, three, four years. next 1, two, three, four years. >> And so that's a that's a pretty prime >> And so that's a that's a pretty prime >> And so that's a that's a pretty prime macro environment. Now geopolitics much macro environment. Now geopolitics much macro environment. Now geopolitics much tougher. We're moving back to a tougher. We're moving back to a tougher. We're moving back to a multip-olar world and the risk of a multip-olar world and the risk of a multip-olar world and the risk of a geopolitical problem that really slows down growth is problem that really slows down growth is just I'm not saying it's high but it's just I'm not saying it's high but it's just I'm not saying it's high but it's much higher than it's been from the last much higher than it's been from the last much higher than it's been from the last for the last you know kind of 10 20 30 for the last you know kind of 10 20 30 for the last you know kind of 10 20 30 years since the wall fell and um you years since the wall fell and um you years since the wall fell and um you know look the world is the world is know look the world is the world is know look the world is the world is fragile social media creates a lot of fragile social media creates a lot of fragile social media creates a lot of volatility and division the way people volatility and division the way people volatility and division the way people absorb information the way information absorb information the way information absorb information the way information moves moves moves >> makes the world faster moving but also >> makes the world faster moving but also >> makes the world faster moving but also more volatile more volatile more volatile Um and so a lot can go wrong but at the Um and so a lot can go wrong but at the Um and so a lot can go wrong but at the moment from an economic a base economic moment from an economic a base economic moment from an economic a base economic perspective that cocktail of stimulus is perspective that cocktail of stimulus is perspective that cocktail of stimulus is pretty powerful. pretty powerful. pretty powerful. >> Maybe a follow-up question for for both >> Maybe a follow-up question for for both >> Maybe a follow-up question for for both of you. I mean you know do you expect to of you. I mean you know do you expect to of you. I mean you know do you expect to see a lot of M&A or IPOs this year? How see a lot of M&A or IPOs this year? How see a lot of M&A or IPOs this year? How how are you sort of advising your CEOs? how are you sort of advising your CEOs? how are you sort of advising your CEOs? We have a yes We have a yes We have a yes >> a lot of them in the audience. It's a >> a lot of them in the audience. It's a >> a lot of them in the audience. It's a good banker respon good banker respon good banker respon >> just just factbased. Okay based we had >> just just factbased. Okay based we had >> just just factbased. Okay based we had you had a very very tough regulatory you had a very very tough regulatory you had a very very tough regulatory environment. M&A and capital raising environment. M&A and capital raising environment. M&A and capital raising IPOs are driven by confidence and so if IPOs are driven by confidence and so if IPOs are driven by confidence and so if you have a tough regulatory environment you have a tough regulatory environment you have a tough regulatory environment that is something that affects that is something that affects that is something that affects confidence from an M&A perspective on confidence from an M&A perspective on confidence from an M&A perspective on strategic M&A for the last four years strategic M&A for the last four years strategic M&A for the last four years whatever the question was the answer was whatever the question was the answer was whatever the question was the answer was no no no >> right >> right >> right >> okay now whatever the question is the >> okay now whatever the question is the >> okay now whatever the question is the answer even if it's very very answer even if it's very very answer even if it's very very significant the answer is maybe so what significant the answer is maybe so what significant the answer is maybe so what do C CEOs like to look forward they like do C CEOs like to look forward they like do C CEOs like to look forward they like to do big things they want to and so to do big things they want to and so to do big things they want to and so there's there's a lot of activity fact there's there's a lot of activity fact there's there's a lot of activity fact and so I I just think Again, this is an and so I I just think Again, this is an and so I I just think Again, this is an environment where you're going to see a environment where you're going to see a environment where you're going to see a significant I think this could be the significant I think this could be the significant I think this could be the biggest M&A year. This is just me biggest M&A year. This is just me biggest M&A year. This is just me predicting. I think it'll be the biggest predicting. I think it'll be the biggest predicting. I think it'll be the biggest M&A year in history this year. It's M&A year in history this year. It's M&A year in history this year. It's going to be a bigger IPO year. Reason going to be a bigger IPO year. Reason going to be a bigger IPO year. Reason thinking a bunch of these big companies thinking a bunch of these big companies thinking a bunch of these big companies that are finally deciding they want to that are finally deciding they want to that are finally deciding they want to come through the pipe. But you you'll come through the pipe. But you you'll come through the pipe. But you you'll have a view on that too. Um I being a have a view on that too. Um I being a have a view on that too. Um I being a public company is a horrible thing. I do public company is a horrible thing. I do public company is a horrible thing. I do not rant. not rant. not rant. Do not rant. Do not rant. Do not rant. It is challenging from kind. It is challenging from kind. It is challenging from kind. >> You just have to be okay with getting >> You just have to be okay with getting >> You just have to be okay with getting sued sued sued >> a lot >> a lot >> a lot >> all the time. Um, you know, it's funny. >> all the time. Um, you know, it's funny. >> all the time. Um, you know, it's funny. We had a company that just went public We had a company that just went public We had a company that just went public and they're like, "We might get sued." I and they're like, "We might get sued." I and they're like, "We might get sued." I was like, "Of course you're going to get was like, "Of course you're going to get was like, "Of course you're going to get sued. You're public. This is America." sued. You're public. This is America." sued. You're public. This is America." Like, what are you talking about? Um, so Like, what are you talking about? Um, so Like, what are you talking about? Um, so I agree. I agree a lot on on the M&A I agree. I agree a lot on on the M&A I agree. I agree a lot on on the M&A front except with the front except with the front except with the uh kind of exception that like it's not uh kind of exception that like it's not uh kind of exception that like it's not clear uh the FTC clear uh the FTC clear uh the FTC uh kind of position on these things yet uh kind of position on these things yet uh kind of position on these things yet and so far and so far and so far >> yeah especially on big tech even on like >> yeah especially on big tech even on like >> yeah especially on big tech even on like small tech they've been very very small tech they've been very very small tech they've been very very aggressive um so I think M&A will happen aggressive um so I think M&A will happen aggressive um so I think M&A will happen but it may happen more in the form of IP but it may happen more in the form of IP but it may happen more in the form of IP transactions and that kind of thing than transactions and that kind of thing than transactions and that kind of thing than as a traditional M&A. Um I hope not, but as a traditional M&A. Um I hope not, but as a traditional M&A. Um I hope not, but but that that may be the case. And then but that that may be the case. And then but that that may be the case. And then yeah, look, I I think there's going to yeah, look, I I think there's going to yeah, look, I I think there's going to be a lot of IPOs coming out of our be a lot of IPOs coming out of our be a lot of IPOs coming out of our world. So I think there's going to be world. So I think there's going to be world. So I think there's going to be some out of necessity that the companies some out of necessity that the companies some out of necessity that the companies are growing so fast. We have so many are growing so fast. We have so many are growing so fast. We have so many companies uh like went zero to over companies uh like went zero to over companies uh like went zero to over hundred million dollars in less than a hundred million dollars in less than a hundred million dollars in less than a year. Um some zero to over a billion year. Um some zero to over a billion year. Um some zero to over a billion dollars in less than a year. So which dollars in less than a year. So which dollars in less than a year. So which like we've never seen that before. And like we've never seen that before. And like we've never seen that before. And uh and then the kind of correlary to uh and then the kind of correlary to uh and then the kind of correlary to that in AI is that um leads aren't what that in AI is that um leads aren't what that in AI is that um leads aren't what they once were. So for my whole life in they once were. So for my whole life in they once were. So for my whole life in technology and for the whole history of technology and for the whole history of technology and for the whole history of software, there was this thing called software, there was this thing called software, there was this thing called the mythical man month. And the way the the mythical man month. And the way the the mythical man month. And the way the mythical man month, you know, nine women mythical man month, you know, nine women mythical man month, you know, nine women cannot have a baby in a month. Uh, and cannot have a baby in a month. Uh, and cannot have a baby in a month. Uh, and so you can't just if you're Google, you so you can't just if you're Google, you so you can't just if you're Google, you can't just put a thousand software can't just put a thousand software can't just put a thousand software engineers on a product and wipe out a engineers on a product and wipe out a engineers on a product and wipe out a startup because you can only build that startup because you can only build that startup because you can only build that product with say seven or eight people product with say seven or eight people product with say seven or eight people and once they figured it out, they've and once they figured it out, they've and once they figured it out, they've got that lead and you're going to have got that lead and you're going to have got that lead and you're going to have to, you know, you're going to be behind to, you know, you're going to be behind to, you know, you're going to be behind for a long time. That's not true uh with for a long time. That's not true uh with for a long time. That's not true uh with AI. Um so with AI uh if you have data AI. Um so with AI uh if you have data AI. Um so with AI uh if you have data you know particularly proprietary data you know particularly proprietary data you know particularly proprietary data and you have enough GPUs you can solve and you have enough GPUs you can solve and you have enough GPUs you can solve like almost any problem. It is magic. Uh like almost any problem. It is magic. Uh like almost any problem. It is magic. Uh but it means that you can throw money at but it means that you can throw money at but it means that you can throw money at the problem. Uh and we've never had that the problem. Uh and we've never had that the problem. Uh and we've never had that in tech. And so I think that that's in tech. And so I think that that's in tech. And so I think that that's actually going to drive a lot of IPOs actually going to drive a lot of IPOs actually going to drive a lot of IPOs because people are going to want to get because people are going to want to get because people are going to want to get out and have the capital to continue to out and have the capital to continue to out and have the capital to continue to compete uh because it's really compete uh because it's really compete uh because it's really necessary. You don't just have a lead necessary. You don't just have a lead necessary. You don't just have a lead you can sit on. Uh so so it's going to you can sit on. Uh so so it's going to you can sit on. Uh so so it's going to be a very exciting year. I think be a very exciting year. I think be a very exciting year. I think >> you you were talking about the FDC >> you you were talking about the FDC >> you you were talking about the FDC earlier. I know you and Mark are earlier. I know you and Mark are earlier. I know you and Mark are spending a lot more time in DC than you spending a lot more time in DC than you spending a lot more time in DC than you ever have. ever have. ever have. >> Um you know what are some of >> Um you know what are some of >> Um you know what are some of >> Chris >> Chris >> Chris >> and Chris? Yeah. Um you know what are >> and Chris? Yeah. Um you know what are >> and Chris? Yeah. Um you know what are some of the policy uh you know agendas some of the policy uh you know agendas some of the policy uh you know agendas you're most focused on and and why do you're most focused on and and why do you're most focused on and and why do you think this is you know more you think this is you know more you think this is you know more important now than it's ever been? Well, important now than it's ever been? Well, important now than it's ever been? Well, the first one was crypto because um you the first one was crypto because um you the first one was crypto because um you know we we thought then and we continue know we we thought then and we continue know we we thought then and we continue to think crypto is an extremely to think crypto is an extremely to think crypto is an extremely important technology. Um it's kind of uh important technology. Um it's kind of uh important technology. Um it's kind of uh you know not not just the kind of most you know not not just the kind of most you know not not just the kind of most profound breakthrough in kind of profound breakthrough in kind of profound breakthrough in kind of financial technology that we've seen but financial technology that we've seen but financial technology that we've seen but a real breakthrough in um just how a real breakthrough in um just how a real breakthrough in um just how society works. So everything from you society works. So everything from you society works. So everything from you know how do property rights work on on know how do property rights work on on know how do property rights work on on the internet you know like uh you know the internet you know like uh you know the internet you know like uh you know how what what is the right architecture how what what is the right architecture how what what is the right architecture for things that where uh creatives um for things that where uh creatives um for things that where uh creatives um contribute most of the value what's the contribute most of the value what's the contribute most of the value what's the right business architecture what is right business architecture what is right business architecture what is stakeholder capitalism really um these stakeholder capitalism really um these stakeholder capitalism really um these are all things that that get solved with are all things that that get solved with are all things that that get solved with crypto so we thought it was so important crypto so we thought it was so important crypto so we thought it was so important and so important for the advance of and so important for the advance of and so important for the advance of society and to not have us like descend society and to not have us like descend society and to not have us like descend into communism and these kinds of into communism and these kinds of into communism and these kinds of things. Uh and it got completely banned things. Uh and it got completely banned things. Uh and it got completely banned by the last administration, but not by the last administration, but not by the last administration, but not through a legal process, not through a through a legal process, not through a through a legal process, not through a legislative process, but just through legislative process, but just through legislative process, but just through like sheer will and you know, we'd say like sheer will and you know, we'd say like sheer will and you know, we'd say abuse of power of the of the government, abuse of power of the of the government, abuse of power of the of the government, including techniques like debanking. Our including techniques like debanking. Our including techniques like debanking. Our company got wells notices um which I've company got wells notices um which I've company got wells notices um which I've never seen before in a private company. never seen before in a private company. never seen before in a private company. So just an attack from the government on So just an attack from the government on So just an attack from the government on uh an industry, a technology industry in uh an industry, a technology industry in uh an industry, a technology industry in this country. And so we were like, well, this country. And so we were like, well, this country. And so we were like, well, we've got to get in and work on that. we've got to get in and work on that. we've got to get in and work on that. And um so the first thing was the uh And um so the first thing was the uh And um so the first thing was the uh Genius Act and the Stable Coin Bill, Genius Act and the Stable Coin Bill, Genius Act and the Stable Coin Bill, which passed and is now law and we're which passed and is now law and we're which passed and is now law and we're very proud of that. The second one which very proud of that. The second one which very proud of that. The second one which we think is the more important bill is we think is the more important bill is we think is the more important bill is the clarity act which is also known as the clarity act which is also known as the clarity act which is also known as market structure which um kind of market structure which um kind of market structure which um kind of establishes and it's such a necessary establishes and it's such a necessary establishes and it's such a necessary thing for this technology because you thing for this technology because you thing for this technology because you have these tokens that can represent have these tokens that can represent have these tokens that can represent Pokemon card that can rep represent a Pokemon card that can rep represent a Pokemon card that can rep represent a stock certificate that can represent a stock certificate that can represent a stock certificate that can represent a dollar um and there were no rules to say dollar um and there were no rules to say dollar um and there were no rules to say well which one is this token and the well which one is this token and the well which one is this token and the approach of the Biden administration was approach of the Biden administration was approach of the Biden administration was everything's a security to the point everything's a security to the point everything's a security to the point where they sued artists for like, oh, I where they sued artists for like, oh, I where they sued artists for like, oh, I painted a picture and I made an NFT. Oh, painted a picture and I made an NFT. Oh, painted a picture and I made an NFT. Oh, you sold a security. Like that that you sold a security. Like that that you sold a security. Like that that crazy. Uh, so this one we're trying to crazy. Uh, so this one we're trying to crazy. Uh, so this one we're trying to get past right now and uh we've had some get past right now and uh we've had some get past right now and uh we've had some drama around it which I'm not going to drama around it which I'm not going to drama around it which I'm not going to comment on, but uh that's a thing. The comment on, but uh that's a thing. The comment on, but uh that's a thing. The second one that's really important is second one that's really important is second one that's really important is AI. So uh you know like with I think AI. So uh you know like with I think AI. So uh you know like with I think with the automobile or with electricity with the automobile or with electricity with the automobile or with electricity uh with these new technologies people uh uh with these new technologies people uh uh with these new technologies people uh kind of freak out about them um because kind of freak out about them um because kind of freak out about them um because they they do have big impact they are they they do have big impact they are they they do have big impact they are going to change the world and with AI in going to change the world and with AI in going to change the world and with AI in particular uh you know there's some of particular uh you know there's some of particular uh you know there's some of the calls are coming from within inside the calls are coming from within inside the calls are coming from within inside the house where people are really trying the house where people are really trying the house where people are really trying to kind of scare the population to kind of scare the population to kind of scare the population sometimes to achieve regulatory capture sometimes to achieve regulatory capture sometimes to achieve regulatory capture and other things. and other things. and other things. But if you ban the technology, which But if you ban the technology, which But if you ban the technology, which some people are calling for, uh, or ban some people are calling for, uh, or ban some people are calling for, uh, or ban or kind of infringe people's ability to or kind of infringe people's ability to or kind of infringe people's ability to do mathematics, which is something that do mathematics, which is something that do mathematics, which is something that a lot of people are calling for, um, a lot of people are calling for, um, a lot of people are calling for, um, then I think we're definitely going to then I think we're definitely going to then I think we're definitely going to lose the AI rights to China, which has lose the AI rights to China, which has lose the AI rights to China, which has like massive, you know, hundredyear like massive, you know, hundredyear like massive, you know, hundredyear implications. Uh, and so the key things implications. Uh, and so the key things implications. Uh, and so the key things we're trying to protect are one, the we're trying to protect are one, the we're trying to protect are one, the model is the model. It is a model. It's model is the model. It is a model. It's model is the model. It is a model. It's a mathematical model. It predicts a mathematical model. It predicts a mathematical model. It predicts things. It's not like a uh sentient things. It's not like a uh sentient things. It's not like a uh sentient being. Like maybe we'll figure out how being. Like maybe we'll figure out how being. Like maybe we'll figure out how to do that. We don't know how to do that to do that. We don't know how to do that to do that. We don't know how to do that yet. So, it's not sentient. Um it's just yet. So, it's not sentient. Um it's just yet. So, it's not sentient. Um it's just a model. Uh so, we're trying to say a model. Uh so, we're trying to say a model. Uh so, we're trying to say don't regulate math. Um regulate the don't regulate math. Um regulate the don't regulate math. Um regulate the applications of that math. So, if applications of that math. So, if applications of that math. So, if somebody uses AI to break into a bank or somebody uses AI to break into a bank or somebody uses AI to break into a bank or um you know, steal your money or uh you um you know, steal your money or uh you um you know, steal your money or uh you know, make a robot that that uh shoots know, make a robot that that uh shoots know, make a robot that that uh shoots somebody, then that's illegal. Um but somebody, then that's illegal. Um but somebody, then that's illegal. Um but the technology itself shouldn't be the technology itself shouldn't be the technology itself shouldn't be illegal. Uh and then there's uh the the illegal. Uh and then there's uh the the illegal. Uh and then there's uh the the kind of most pressing one right now is kind of most pressing one right now is kind of most pressing one right now is um every state wants to have their own um every state wants to have their own um every state wants to have their own set of AI laws which will basically make set of AI laws which will basically make set of AI laws which will basically make it impossible for new companies to it impossible for new companies to it impossible for new companies to innovate because you can't comply with innovate because you can't comply with innovate because you can't comply with 50 different laws from 50 different 50 different laws from 50 different 50 different laws from 50 different states. So we're trying to get that states. So we're trying to get that states. So we're trying to get that done. Um, kind of shortly following done. Um, kind of shortly following done. Um, kind of shortly following that, there's an issue of how copyrights that, there's an issue of how copyrights that, there's an issue of how copyrights are treated. Um, and can you build a are treated. Um, and can you build a are treated. Um, and can you build a statistical model over copyritten work, statistical model over copyritten work, statistical model over copyritten work, not reproduce the copywritten work, but not reproduce the copywritten work, but not reproduce the copywritten work, but just build a model about it so that the just build a model about it so that the just build a model about it so that the kind of software becomes smarter. Um, we kind of software becomes smarter. Um, we kind of software becomes smarter. Um, we think that's very important because think that's very important because think that's very important because China absolutely doesn't respect China absolutely doesn't respect China absolutely doesn't respect copyrights even. They don't respect just copyrights even. They don't respect just copyrights even. They don't respect just copying it. uh let alone building a copying it. uh let alone building a copying it. uh let alone building a statistical model and we're going to statistical model and we're going to statistical model and we're going to have kind of a weaker uh AI if we can't have kind of a weaker uh AI if we can't have kind of a weaker uh AI if we can't train on all the data, can't train on train on all the data, can't train on train on all the data, can't train on the complete data. So those are the main the complete data. So those are the main the complete data. So those are the main things that we're trying to push things that we're trying to push things that we're trying to push forward. forward. forward. >> Awesome. You know, one of the things >> Awesome. You know, one of the things >> Awesome. You know, one of the things that that was very evident to me during that that was very evident to me during that that was very evident to me during my time at at Goldman was how you know my time at at Goldman was how you know my time at at Goldman was how you know client centric the firm was and I know client centric the firm was and I know client centric the firm was and I know 1GS was a big kind of focus of yours. Um 1GS was a big kind of focus of yours. Um 1GS was a big kind of focus of yours. Um I'm curious how AI is changing the way I'm curious how AI is changing the way I'm curious how AI is changing the way you guys both work internally and and you guys both work internally and and you guys both work internally and and also how you're delivering, you know, also how you're delivering, you know, also how you're delivering, you know, better for clients. Sure. Well, the I better for clients. Sure. Well, the I better for clients. Sure. Well, the I mean firm is the firm's business is mean firm is the firm's business is mean firm is the firm's business is serving our clients and so I you know I serving our clients and so I you know I serving our clients and so I you know I technology has for decades and decades technology has for decades and decades technology has for decades and decades and decades been making productive and decades been making productive and decades been making productive people more productive. Goldman Sachs is people more productive. Goldman Sachs is people more productive. Goldman Sachs is a professional services firm filled with a professional services firm filled with a professional services firm filled with productive people that are very productive people that are very productive people that are very productive and technology has been productive and technology has been productive and technology has been changing the way they work, evolving the changing the way they work, evolving the changing the way they work, evolving the way they work, making them more way they work, making them more way they work, making them more consequential, allowing them to expand consequential, allowing them to expand consequential, allowing them to expand the scope and the footprint of what they the scope and the footprint of what they the scope and the footprint of what they impact. Um, and you know, this impact. Um, and you know, this impact. Um, and you know, this technology is another acceleration of technology is another acceleration of technology is another acceleration of that for sure. Um, that for sure. Um, that for sure. Um, you know, in the in the simplest form you know, in the in the simplest form you know, in the in the simplest form and and this is a a a a broad and and this is a a a a broad and and this is a a a a broad oversimplification, so please take it as oversimplification, so please take it as oversimplification, so please take it as such. There are two things that we're such. There are two things that we're such. There are two things that we're focused on. One, we've got lots of smart focused on. One, we've got lots of smart focused on. One, we've got lots of smart people. These are tools and people. These are tools and people. These are tools and applications. We're trying to get them applications. We're trying to get them applications. We're trying to get them into their hands and give them access to into their hands and give them access to into their hands and give them access to them and access to models and access to them and access to models and access to them and access to models and access to applications. Um, so that they can applications. Um, so that they can applications. Um, so that they can experiment with them, play with them, experiment with them, play with them, experiment with them, play with them, figure out how on a day-to-day basis is figure out how on a day-to-day basis is figure out how on a day-to-day basis is they're executing for clients and doing they're executing for clients and doing they're executing for clients and doing the things they're doing, they can be the things they're doing, they can be the things they're doing, they can be more productive, more powerful, have more productive, more powerful, have more productive, more powerful, have more impact. Um, we're good at this. more impact. Um, we're good at this. more impact. Um, we're good at this. We've done this before. Our people are We've done this before. Our people are We've done this before. Our people are good at it. Um it takes time but we we good at it. Um it takes time but we we good at it. Um it takes time but we we know how to do this and we're doing it know how to do this and we're doing it know how to do this and we're doing it and you know it's really constrained by and you know it's really constrained by and you know it's really constrained by how we get the best tools, the best how we get the best tools, the best how we get the best tools, the best models, the best applications, get them models, the best applications, get them models, the best applications, get them by the way regulatory cleared because we by the way regulatory cleared because we by the way regulatory cleared because we have to deal with regulatory constraints have to deal with regulatory constraints have to deal with regulatory constraints and everything we touch and we do. and everything we touch and we do. and everything we touch and we do. That's a huge barrier for us. We're just That's a huge barrier for us. We're just That's a huge barrier for us. We're just not a company that can say oh this is not a company that can say oh this is not a company that can say oh this is great. Let's try it. We have to have a great. Let's try it. We have to have a great. Let's try it. We have to have a huge process before we can try anything. huge process before we can try anything. huge process before we can try anything. But we know how to do that. We're doing But we know how to do that. We're doing But we know how to do that. We're doing that and that is that is expanding the that and that is that is expanding the that and that is that is expanding the productivity of our people and and you productivity of our people and and you productivity of our people and and you see real time uptake on that that's see real time uptake on that that's see real time uptake on that that's really accelerating. The more really accelerating. The more really accelerating. The more interesting thing to me as the CEO is interesting thing to me as the CEO is interesting thing to me as the CEO is that this technology allows us to really that this technology allows us to really that this technology allows us to really look at fundamental operating processes look at fundamental operating processes look at fundamental operating processes on a massive enterprise and completely on a massive enterprise and completely on a massive enterprise and completely reimagine them to automate them and make reimagine them to automate them and make reimagine them to automate them and make them more efficient. Not just simply for them more efficient. Not just simply for them more efficient. Not just simply for the benefit of doing them with less the benefit of doing them with less the benefit of doing them with less people or with less costs, but for the people or with less costs, but for the people or with less costs, but for the benefit of taking some of that savings benefit of taking some of that savings benefit of taking some of that savings and giving us more capacity to invest in and giving us more capacity to invest in and giving us more capacity to invest in growth areas of the business where we're growth areas of the business where we're growth areas of the business where we're constraint. And so we don't have the constraint. And so we don't have the constraint. And so we don't have the ability to just spend as much money as ability to just spend as much money as ability to just spend as much money as we want and lose as much money as we we want and lose as much money as we we want and lose as much money as we want. We actually have to be held want. We actually have to be held want. We actually have to be held accountable every year to how much money accountable every year to how much money accountable every year to how much money how much money we spend and how much how much money we spend and how much how much money we spend and how much money we make and what kind of a return money we make and what kind of a return money we make and what kind of a return we generate. we generate. we generate. >> Thanks for generally don't last forever. >> Thanks for generally don't last forever. >> Thanks for generally don't last forever. >> No, they don't last forever. But they >> No, they don't last forever. But they >> No, they don't last forever. But they actually interestingly there are actually interestingly there are actually interestingly there are companies that have proven that they can companies that have proven that they can companies that have proven that they can last for 1015 years where the last for 1015 years where the last for 1015 years where the accountability on the way you're accountability on the way you're accountability on the way you're deploying your capital is put off for a deploying your capital is put off for a deploying your capital is put off for a long period of time. We have to look at long period of time. We have to look at long period of time. We have to look at it every year. So I would say in the it every year. So I would say in the it every year. So I would say in the last few years we've been constrained last few years we've been constrained last few years we've been constrained just simply we spent last year we spent just simply we spent last year we spent just simply we spent last year we spent $6 billion on technology. I would have $6 billion on technology. I would have $6 billion on technology. I would have loved to spend eight. Okay. But if I loved to spend eight. Okay. But if I loved to spend eight. Okay. But if I spent eight our returns would have been spent eight our returns would have been spent eight our returns would have been hundreds of basis points lower. And you hundreds of basis points lower. And you hundreds of basis points lower. And you know what? We couldn't do that. know what? We couldn't do that. know what? We couldn't do that. >> Sure. Now if we can actually find $2 >> Sure. Now if we can actually find $2 >> Sure. Now if we can actually find $2 billion of efficiency around reimagining billion of efficiency around reimagining billion of efficiency around reimagining processes then I can spend eight and processes then I can spend eight and processes then I can spend eight and wind up with the same returns. So we we wind up with the same returns. So we we wind up with the same returns. So we we laid out we actually called it 1GS 3.0 a laid out we actually called it 1GS 3.0 a laid out we actually called it 1GS 3.0 a program where we picked six specific program where we picked six specific program where we picked six specific processes in the firm and we said we are processes in the firm and we said we are processes in the firm and we said we are going to do the work to really going to do the work to really going to do the work to really completely reimagine them. We have not completely reimagine them. We have not completely reimagine them. We have not put out publicly how that changes put out publicly how that changes put out publicly how that changes workforce, how much capacity that workforce, how much capacity that workforce, how much capacity that creates, but it's super significant. And creates, but it's super significant. And creates, but it's super significant. And it's not that there are only six. These it's not that there are only six. These it's not that there are only six. These are just the first six. So, this is one are just the first six. So, this is one are just the first six. So, this is one of the reasons why the market's running of the reasons why the market's running of the reasons why the market's running forward. I think this opportunity is forward. I think this opportunity is forward. I think this opportunity is huge, but this is hard. This is hard huge, but this is hard. This is hard huge, but this is hard. This is hard because you're asking people to go kind because you're asking people to go kind because you're asking people to go kind of take away their empire and do their of take away their empire and do their of take away their empire and do their empire differently. It's got to be empire differently. It's got to be empire differently. It's got to be driven top down and uh and it's hard, driven top down and uh and it's hard, driven top down and uh and it's hard, but we're we're going to make a lot of but we're we're going to make a lot of but we're we're going to make a lot of progress. So those are two progress. So those are two progress. So those are two simplification but those are two big simplification but those are two big simplification but those are two big things what I like to sum things what I like to sum things what I like to sum >> anything Ben you you'd add to that just >> anything Ben you you'd add to that just >> anything Ben you you'd add to that just where do you sort of see the where do you sort of see the where do you sort of see the proliferation of this technology in the proliferation of this technology in the proliferation of this technology in the enterprise and what are you most enterprise and what are you most enterprise and what are you most optimistic for in the next I don't know optimistic for in the next I don't know optimistic for in the next I don't know 5 to 10 years 5 to 10 years 5 to 10 years >> well I think that for kind of the >> well I think that for kind of the >> well I think that for kind of the reasons David cited like we're at the reasons David cited like we're at the reasons David cited like we're at the very very beginning in the enterprise um very very beginning in the enterprise um very very beginning in the enterprise um you know like changing people and you know like changing people and you know like changing people and processes and so forth in a in a big processes and so forth in a in a big processes and so forth in a in a big existing company is no matter what the existing company is no matter what the existing company is no matter what the technology is is complicated technology is is complicated technology is is complicated Um you know in our firm as you know uh Um you know in our firm as you know uh Um you know in our firm as you know uh we are kind of taking very aggressive we are kind of taking very aggressive we are kind of taking very aggressive approach to approach to approach to kind of first automating all the things kind of first automating all the things kind of first automating all the things people do and don't like to do or you people do and don't like to do or you people do and don't like to do or you know it's not like the funnest part of know it's not like the funnest part of know it's not like the funnest part of the job. We've also kind of gotten all the job. We've also kind of gotten all the job. We've also kind of gotten all of hard data in a data bricks data lake of hard data in a data bricks data lake of hard data in a data bricks data lake and so we can ask you know basically any and so we can ask you know basically any and so we can ask you know basically any question about the firm or the question about the firm or the question about the firm or the portfolio. customer support for it works portfolio. customer support for it works portfolio. customer support for it works fantastic. fantastic. fantastic. >> You know, a AI gentic investing is going >> You know, a AI gentic investing is going >> You know, a AI gentic investing is going to be very very interesting because to be very very interesting because to be very very interesting because you know models work on the facts that you know models work on the facts that you know models work on the facts that are available and one of the things are available and one of the things are available and one of the things about investing is sometimes the biggest about investing is sometimes the biggest about investing is sometimes the biggest changes and the way you have to think changes and the way you have to think changes and the way you have to think about investing a portfolio comes from about investing a portfolio comes from about investing a portfolio comes from things that are completely new and things that are completely new and things that are completely new and unexpected. It can't be incorporated in unexpected. It can't be incorporated in unexpected. It can't be incorporated in a model can't be something from the a model can't be something from the a model can't be something from the past. Yeah. past. Yeah. past. Yeah. >> Can't be something from the past. So the >> Can't be something from the past. So the >> Can't be something from the past. So the bottom line is once it happens that it bottom line is once it happens that it bottom line is once it happens that it can be quickly incorporated models and can be quickly incorporated models and can be quickly incorporated models and models can load very quickly but still models can load very quickly but still models can load very quickly but still you know you start from a place and so you know you start from a place and so you know you start from a place and so it's I I'm I'm really interested to see it's I I'm I'm really interested to see it's I I'm I'm really interested to see how it works and look one of the things how it works and look one of the things how it works and look one of the things you've got to you've got to wonder why you've got to you've got to wonder why you've got to you've got to wonder why there are handful of people there are a there are handful of people there are a there are handful of people there are a handful of people who have so handful of people who have so handful of people who have so outperformed as investors over a long outperformed as investors over a long outperformed as investors over a long period of time but you encounter period of time but you encounter period of time but you encounter speaking you know people underperform speaking you know people underperform speaking you know people underperform And so if the models are based on the And so if the models are based on the And so if the models are based on the information that the people are information that the people are information that the people are underperforming all have, it's going to underperforming all have, it's going to underperforming all have, it's going to be interesting to see whether something be interesting to see whether something be interesting to see whether something different comes out of it. different comes out of it. different comes out of it. >> Awesome. I think we're running out of >> Awesome. I think we're running out of >> Awesome. I think we're running out of time, but um maybe one last bonus time, but um maybe one last bonus time, but um maybe one last bonus question. Um favorite DJ. No, no question. Um favorite DJ. No, no question. Um favorite DJ. No, no self-nominations. self-nominations. self-nominations. >> Favorite DJ today? >> Favorite DJ today? >> Favorite DJ today? >> Yeah. Or it could be in the past. >> Yeah. Or it could be in the past. >> Yeah. Or it could be in the past. >> John Summit. >> John Summit. >> John Summit. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I mean John Summit is John Summit is >> I mean John Summit is John Summit is >> I mean John Summit is John Summit is doing really really cool things as a DJ. doing really really cool things as a DJ. doing really really cool things as a DJ. He's incredibly interesting young guy He's incredibly interesting young guy He's incredibly interesting young guy that's got a lot of energy and he's he's that's got a lot of energy and he's he's that's got a lot of energy and he's he's evolving very much the context of how evolving very much the context of how evolving very much the context of how kind of big club house DJs do what they kind of big club house DJs do what they kind of big club house DJs do what they do. I think I think he's doing a great do. I think I think he's doing a great do. I think I think he's doing a great job. job. job. >> Ben, I'm going to stay in my lane, which >> Ben, I'm going to stay in my lane, which >> Ben, I'm going to stay in my lane, which is the past and hip-hop DJs. I'm going is the past and hip-hop DJs. I'm going is the past and hip-hop DJs. I'm going to say DJ Jazzy Jeff. Um, who is a like to say DJ Jazzy Jeff. Um, who is a like to say DJ Jazzy Jeff. Um, who is a like very underrated because his partner, the very underrated because his partner, the very underrated because his partner, the Fresh Prince, became Will Smith. Um, but Fresh Prince, became Will Smith. Um, but Fresh Prince, became Will Smith. Um, but DJ Jazzy Jeff is a great great alltime DJ Jazzy Jeff is a great great alltime DJ Jazzy Jeff is a great great alltime Egypt. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys so Egypt. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys so Egypt. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys so much for doing this. much for doing this. much for doing this. >> Thank you, David. >> Thank you, David. >> Thank you, David. >> Awesome.