Are Artificial Sweeteners Bad for You | The Real Problem Nobody Talks About | Mind Pump 2941

Key Takeaway

If you use diet drinks or artificially sweetened foods to lose weight, run a simple two-week experiment: replace most of them with water and notice whether fruit, whole foods, appetite, and meal satisfaction change. The hosts’ coaching experience is that sweet, zero-calorie products often fail as a real-world fat-loss strategy because they preserve a preference for intense sweetness and can make it easier to overeat elsewhere. Build meals around protein and minimally processed foods instead.

Episode Overview

The hosts argue that artificial sweeteners are unlikely to be as physiologically dangerous as popular scare stories suggest, but may still undermine long-term eating habits, palate sensitivity, and satiety for many people. They also coach callers on reducing excessive training volume, using strength as a health metric, improving VO2 max through enjoyable activity or brief intervals, and prioritizing recovery.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Are Artificial Sweeteners Bad for You | The Real Problem Nobody Talks About | Mind Pump 2941 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MindPump. MindPump. With your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in history. This is MindPump today's episode. Callers called in. We had four of them call in. We got to coach them on air with their health and fitness. But this was after the intro, today's intro, 61 minutes long. In the intro, we talked about artificial sweeteners, fitness, muscle gain, fat loss.

We talked about current events and family life. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this one, send your question to MPLifeCaller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Element. So, this is an electrolyte powder that you add to your water, 1,000 milligrams of sodium per serving. Because if you need electrolytes, you need the sodium. It tastes amazing. It's not artificially flavored. Again, no sugar. Go try it out. Go to drinkelemente.com slash MindPump. On that link, you'll get a free sample pack of the most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase.

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So much controversy surrounding them. We're going to talk about the actual dangers of using them. It's a little click-baity. Yes, this is true, but we're really going to get into it. Artificial sweeteners. Let's go. Oh, wow. We used to talk about this a lot. We did. We haven't talked about it in a long time. I remember this was ... I need to tell you to bring this up. I think back to what brought Layne Norton and us all together the first time. Was this? Yeah. Yeah.

It was. Actually, that was one of the more viral episodes we ever did, because at that time, Layne was ascending. We had been podcasting for a while now, and this was one of the few things that we didn't fully agree on, right? There was a lot of buildup online, and so everybody thought we were going to get into a big ... This is going to be this huge war we're going to have or something. Yeah. We're not really pro or con artificial sweeteners, but the con part is not for the reasons that people think.

You know what prompted this for me was I saw Max Lugavere did a post. Our good friend Max Lugavere, who I love so much, he's got tons of integrity, and he's very objective. So Max, he'll change his opinion based on data, and he has on a couple things. Like I said, he's got a lot of integrity, so I really appreciate him. He's like, oh, I have the occasional Diet Coke. People were lighting them up over ... Really? Yeah. Really? Just over the artificial sweetener thing. Here's the deal.

Now, as coaches and trainers, I'm going to just say this straight up, I was never pro artificial sweetener, but it's not for the reasons that you might think. I do want to get this out. They're unlikely physiologically dangerous. There definitely is a lot of scaremongering surrounding artificial sweeteners, like they could cause cancer or brain issues or chronic disease. Stay away from them. They're totally bad for you. They've been studied a lot, okay? They've been studied a lot, a lot. By the way, that's not perfect because you can't be 100% with studies, but there's a lot of studies done on artificial sweeteners.

Well, they've been around for quite a while now. They've been around for a long time, and so a lot of the stuff that you'll hear, the fear stuff surrounding them, is just that. It's kind of scaremongering. What we're not going to say here is avoid artificial sweeteners because you're going to get cancer or avoid them because they're going to kill you. We're not really in that camp, okay? Now, of course, if something comes out to show the otherwise, of course, we're going to be like, okay, here's what new data shows, but again, we still don't advise people to use them.

It's not something that I ever promoted, and it's for other reasons, and that's what we're going to get into. I've never changed my mind on these. I've remained consistent since day one on this. I consume Diet Coke. I've openly talked about it since we've started the podcast. I think that if you are a competitive athlete, meaning competing on stage, bikini, bodybuildings, men's physique, things like that, we used artificial sweeteners in things like coffee. We used Diet Cokes. We used things like that because these people were so meticulous about their diet.

They were tracking every single calorie that it worked. What I found with regular clients that had a hard time tracking consistently or never tracked and thought they would use Diet Coke or low-calorie, no-calorie foods and drinks that were replaced with artificial sweeteners to restrict calories or cut back on calories, it actually didn't work. It worked in the moment where they said, oh, I'm not going to have a regular Coke. I'm going to have a Diet Coke, and they would have it, but then they would make up for those calories and other things.

Yeah, always. Yeah. We found that the artificial ... I noticed this even with myself when I have them. It kicks up my appetite. Now I am aware of it, and I've learned to balance my macros, and I've done that for a very long time, that I can allow those things in the diet occasionally and be okay, but the average person who needs to lose 20, 30, 40 pounds that is using these no-calorie or low-calorie sweeteners to replace calories end up making it up somewhere else, so it becomes a moot.

It doesn't work. In real life, it doesn't work as a weight loss strategy, and you see this in the studies. If you track every calorie that goes in your mouth and you cut your calories, you'll lose weight, and this is when artificial sweeteners can become a strategy. Adam just talked about this group of people that do that who are competitors who get on stage. The average person doesn't do this. The average person tracking every single calorie and macro is part of a strategy, but you don't live this way.

You never live this way. This is part of a strategy that allows you to kind of become aware of what you eat, maybe if you're reverse dieting, you're trying to figure things out, but eventually you want to get out of that. You don't want to just track everything, and so when you look at the data on this and people are told, hey, replace your normal sodas or replace your normally sweetened foods with these low-calorie, no-calorie, artificially sweetened foods, and then let's come up, let's follow up with you six months later, they don't help with weight loss.

They just don't. Now, the science says they should, right? If I'm cutting 500 calories of sugar out of my diet and I don't replace it, of course I'm going to lose weight, but that's not what happens. What always- I just don't see that with behavior. You don't. I want to make this clear, too, because our buddy, Lane, will cite the studies that show that when they do this, but this isn't a controlled environment. This is where studies don't always do us a favor, right? It's great that we understand that, yes, it's pretty obvious.

You take something that's zero calories, you replace it with something that has calories over the course of six months, then of course you would lose weight. The reality is, though, in the context of the real world and the people that are not in a study where they have to track or have to follow everything by these rules, what ends up happening is it doesn't change behaviors. Right. And that's what I'm interested in. Right. And so, yes, very aware of what the studies say around artificial sweeteners and how it can help with weight loss.

Problem is, nobody is working within the confines of a study in real life, and so you have to ask yourself over the course- and this is why there was debate between us. And rightfully so, what does our good buddy train mostly? Competitors. Competitors. So, not only does he understand the science and the studies, he also has a bit of a bias because the majority of his clients are- They track everything. They are like me. They're weighing it. And so it works for someone like me that is tracking, weighing, and measuring everything.

That's right. And so, and the difference is, what do we train mostly? I didn't train that many. I've trained more competitors towards the end of my career. I trained zero competitors. The average people. Yeah, that was way later. And still 80% of my client book over 20 years has been General Pop. Right. And so here's- So, I'll get into- So, first off, it doesn't really work in real life. By the way, they've been around for a long time. If you look at the amount of calories people get from sugar in the average American diet, if they did work by now, they would have worked, at least in some significant way.

But what's happened is we've just gotten more obese. And so they just, in the real world, in real life, with real people's behaviors, they just don't work. Here's the part, here are the parts that I really don't like. When you're consuming something that is very sweet, or savory, or palatable, okay, anytime you consume something that hits those senses, that fires the brain in that way, because an artificially sweetened soda has no calories, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on my body. Still very sweet.

Obviously. Yeah, I perceive the flavor. How am I perceiving the flavor? My brain is perceiving the flavor. Something's happening in my brain that tells me that I'm drinking something very sweet. Does that have potential negative effects? Well, physiologically, probably not. Psychologically, yes. And I'll even point to this physiological effect. It'll change how you perceive palatability, and this is just a fact. If you consume lots of sweet-tasting things, even with no calories, other things that are sweet or naturally sweet, let's say like fruit, for example, starts to become perceived as less sweet.

In fact, here's one of the things I would run into with clients who had lots of diet sodas. They didn't like the taste of water. This was shocking to me as an early trainer. I remember when I first became a trainer, now I didn't grow up with lots of soda in my household. We're kind of a traditional southern Italian family. We drank water. We never had lots of soda. So I didn't grow up with this. And I remember I would get these clients, and I'd talk to them about water intake.

And I remember the first time someone told me, it's like, well, I don't like the taste of water. And I thought they were joking, and they were serious. I'm like, what do you mean the taste of water? It's water. Like, what are you talking about? It's boring. I don't like drinking water because it's boring. And then I kept hearing that from more and more clients. And then I started to realize these are people that grew up drinking lots of soda, either regularly sweetened or artificially sweetened, and the way that they perceive sweetness or the way that they perceive flavor or the experience of food has been altered because that's the point where water tastes gross, fruit is bland, and whole foods don't taste good.

And we have, this is well-documented, by the way, this is well-documented with heavily processed foods. If you eat a lot of heavily processed foods, whole natural foods start to taste less and less exciting and more and more bland. Why? Because they're engineered to be that way. So you cannot find something in nature that has the sweetness impact of a diet soda. It just doesn't exist. And so does your brain adapt to that? It does. We know this. And so does this affect behaviors otherwise? In other words, does this affect other behaviors with food?

It definitely does. And so this is what I found with my clients. Like, if we avoid them, we tend to do better than if I let you put them in your diet. Except for the people that track every single calorie that goes in their mouth, it just never really worked. Well, I mean, I noticed a difference with my palate with fruits and vegetables. Fruits and vegetables become more bland the more of those things that you have in your diet. You take those out of the diet, and now fruits and vegetables start to burst with flavor.

Yes. And again, when we're in the business of helping people change habits and behaviors, it's not always about the science and the math. It's about, okay, if I can get my client to do X, Y, and Z, will this help them long-term? And in this case, more often than not, having them in there is not ideal. Well, yeah. You think about every single meal growing up, and that's a hard association to break. So it's a big ask for your client to be able to have a meal and then have something with that meal that doesn't have flavor to it.

So I used to run into that a lot, like water is just so boring, and I need something with some flavor. It's a trip. Yeah. It was just because every time they're consuming, that was the ritual. That was the part of the process. And so like, yeah, it does make a big difference in then how that affects behavior. So our brain adapts to stimulus in this way. So I'll give a couple of examples that are not related to palatability, but are similar in the sense that your brain starts to adapt.

So I have little kids, okay? And when I put on entertainment that's made today for little kids, it's radically different than the stuff that I used to watch when I was a kid in the early 80s. When I was five years old, I watched Mr. Rogers. If I put Mr. Rogers on today and compare it to like Cocomelon, Mr. Rogers moves so slow, it's insane. It's crazy how slow it moves in comparison to the new hyper-stimulating stuff that they make for kids. And if you, now, if you showed me Mr.

Rogers when I was five, I loved it. Loved I watched it and it was great. I enjoyed it. You show a kid who watches cocomelon or something else all the time Mr. Rogers, they hate it. Their brain has adapted to the hyper stimulus This is also true for other things. For example pornography does this to people when it comes to traditional intercourse? In fact, you'll see erectile dysfunction has now exploded among young men because of pornography It's so hyper stimulating so hyper novel that the real thing Just doesn't do it.

Why because the brain has adapted so when I'm constantly consuming artificially sweetened foods and beverages It's going to affect how my relationship to the rest of food and it's not gonna affect it in a positive way And I'm gonna point to a second piece here. Okay? Novelty, so Adam said something earlier that I love people love to debate and I know Lane has even tried to debate this But it's because they're looking at the studies wrong. So what we have said in the past is that consuming Like artificially sweetened foods or beverages will make you eat more.

Now. What they do is they'll go on the date They'll go in the study. They'll study if you consume a soda with that's artificially sweetened. How does it affect? Grelin, how does it affect hunger in some of these ways and it doesn't it doesn't make you hungrier But that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is the effect of novelty and Satiety, so let me give you guys an example When you're eating a food that is very savory and salty and you eat so much of it that you're like stuffed Eat something sweet and then go back to it.

Watch what happens. Yeah, suddenly you can have it again because you've interrupted The perception of savory with sweet which introduces novelty override it and then you can go right back. How do people consume? sweet artificially sweetened beverages With a meal so I'm consuming a meal if I'm washing it down with something sweet I will probably might my my My level of satiety won't hit as quickly because I'm constantly interrupting it with novelty. So I'm going burger diet coke burger Diet coke burger diet. I'm gonna eat more of the burger fries then if it was burger water burger water Even though they have the same calories It's because it's interrupting with novelty and this is what you see when people have artists artificially sweetened beverages with meals Is it changes how they eat the regular meal because of that novel?

Well, there's also the the psychological piece that's attached to that where When you when you drink a soda, let's say a regular soda that has I wasn't 160 calories There's something like that per can and you and you're trying to lose weight and you're trying to be good about not overeating calories There's something that psychologically happens where you there's a like, oh this I'm taking in calories right now versus oh, this is calorie free So then what it ends up letting you do so then what you like you do is like Oh, I'll have a bunch of these and then you'll to your point you end up it ends up being a novel stimulus while you're Eating french fries and something else and then you end up eating more of that because this is zero calories So there's also this psychological part of like, oh, this is free.

It doesn't count So I still have more room for something else And so there's there's there's more going on than what these studies control for for the average person This is coming from a person who I drink openly talk about I use artificial sweeteners and do it So it's not that it can't be done But it just doesn't seem to work very well for the average client No, it's never been a strategy that any of have any of us have used to help someone lose weight It's never been one of my stress.

Oh, you know what? Let me look at your diet. Here's what we're gonna do Yeah, let's swap that out. Let's see what happens and nothing. I've only had great success with it with my competitors And that's a completely different When they are they are looking for that because they're in this deprived state all the time and they're looking for some sort of a treat And so we use something like, you know, artificially sweetened jelly on rice cakes, you know Or we use a diet coke or something like that and it gives them this, you know rush small win Yeah, this yeah and and that person again and they're weighing and tracking everything and let me tell you they still went to bed hungry I think so went to bed under calorie So the average person though, they have that they go.

Oh, man, it's so good. Then they have something else So it's uh, yeah, it's just never worked well for for regular clients. No and let and I'll add this lastly Okay. Yes, although the studies show Generally safe aside from the things that we talked about that affect things like behavior Around food and palatability and how your brain adapts to that constant, you know Signal of sweetness besides all that. Yeah, generally safe based on the studies But here's the deal and I can make this as a hundred percent fact.

It's not as safe as water It's just not as like yeah, like we don't know what we don't know now I'm not one of those guys that's like hyper fear-mongering like dinner Don't ever have any chemical because we never know what we don't know You know, I'm more like that with things that are new with things that haven't been studied for decades But this is also a fact. We just don't know. We don't know We've been drinking water since day one. We know what it does.

Our body's made up of it I We will never be able to say a diet soda as a safe as water and we just don't know We don't know. We don't know if it affects the microbiome in some way that affects something else We don't know if it affects fertility a generation later We just we don't know if it can if it acts within another chemical that we get from something else and both of them Individually don't seem to cause an issue. But when they seem to combine we seem to have some problem We don't know what we don't know.

And so the people that are like, it's perfectly safe No, you can't possibly say that by the way water is very safe, but that's not perfectly safe either You can drink so much water you die. So so nothing is in that category, but definitely water is water and These zero Cal and the reason why I'm saying this is the fitness community Especially the like the aesthetically focused fitness community if something is zero calorie, they place it in the same Category as other foods or health because it's zero calorie to health food, which no, that's just that's just not true Well to the water point, um a lot so we talk a lot about how protein it would so many people under consume protein I had a lot of clients that under consume water Yeah, and more often than not Somebody who was the three to four zero calorie, you know, you know drinker that every single day Were the ones that were underwater they had three or four diet cokes or Artificially sweetened drinks run dehydrated and but then drank no water whatsoever to the point you made that like the poor clients like I just can't Stand water by it Is wild but it's also I mean, I remember when we first started working with element It was one of the points that you made what's so great about it is it's so I mean It's so good for you as far as the hydration piece to it But it also tastes so good you get people who aren't big water drinkers using it I would prefer I prefer moving them that direction as well Although water is water like let's just go with water speaking element, by the way I got to tell you guys a little hack that I deal with it So if you're not familiar elements in electrolyte powder and it's got about thousand milligrams of sodium Per serving which is good, which by the way when they first did that was kind of radical Yeah, cuz everybody's afraid of sodium, but the truth is if you need Electrolytes you need sodium you need a decent amount of sodium.

So if you need electrolytes, that's what you want but anyway little hack is people take a pre-workout before they lift mix it with Element you're gonna have a big, you know jug of pre-workout with water throw element in the extra sodium With the water will give you way better pump like way better. In fact, I'm shocked you've mixed them. I throw them together It's so good. So do you use a pre-workout? That's a flavorless doesn't know all flavor. It doesn't matter. Really? No, it tastes great.

Really? Yeah, I It is good, really, but I'll say this I am shocked very with wild cherry Well, I'm sure I'm sure he's definitely the guy when you were kids that did this and slurpee flavors all in one Yeah, you do so were they Very mixed all this never tastes good So there was always that kid who did that who I did mixed all the slurpee flavors now, it's not good looks like poop No, so a lot of water and sodium You know 30 minutes before you work out will give you the best pump ever So and we've talked about that for a long time.

So I've used element Pre-workout, but just mix it with your pre-workout And you'll get one of the best pump. In fact, I'm shocked and I guarantee someone's gonna do this now I don't know why pre-workout companies don't just add a thousand milligrams of sodium to their formula I don't know whether you know why they should Justin besides the fact that you get a better pump sodium increases palatability so if a pre-workout company adds Sodium to their I wonder what the theory is on that. It's salt sugar and fat or the other main components and palatability I know but I wonder what the what the theory is on why a pre-workout wouldn't have a bunch of is there still sodium?

Like fear maybe a fear like yeah, I mean that's the lingers dude. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting people that are a little like Leary Although I tell you what dude the pre-workout formula market. I don't think anyone would really care about Healthy Any hypertension Should take a 300 milligram caffeine We had but yeah sodium is part of a palatability So for pre-workout added a thousand not only would people get a better pump and it's cheap. It would barely touch their margins Yeah, but they but the flavor would be better without changing.

I wish you had this when I was playing football It was like one of those things I would always hydrate like really well and make sure that I you know I drank, you know quite a few days before like one of these like big games where I knew I was a sweat like a ton But dude, I want I wanted to bring so because there's a guy in our backyard That's he's 47 years old. He just signed up and he's on San Jose City College. He just like made it on there like junior college team and he's playing football 47 at 47 years old I I don't know a position.

I think it's defense like I think really yes, I think so I mean anything but but kicker is probably Real football I wear And of course like he's making kind of a social media He's like kind of documenting it and stuff and he's like dude, and you just look at his fingers all busted up He's got all these bruises all this stuff. I'm just like Awesome. That's a year. Yeah a year from now. There's such a difference Running into something really hard when you're 20 Yeah, that's kind of cool bro, I think it's cool and I applaud him It's how did you find him on him find him or meet him or what happened?

Oh, no, that was on like a bleacher report thing that I read and then They highlighted him because it was you know It's that's kind of a crazy story to be 47 in like getting after it now He had a huge like he I guess in high school He was like, you know a great athlete and then like had all these injuries and it prevented him from playing And so, I don't know I guess he got a wild hair I mean, I think that makes it even crazier, right?

too because most people you get all those injuries and then you hang it on and then you definitely don't come back at 47 and Yeah, the competitive collegiate level. I mean, that's wild. I was just that's wild I was just talking about what my buddies about this. We were talking about you guys I think you shared one it's like these short clips on social media where it's like 20 year old guy coming out of the back of his truck and he jumps down and it's like, oh 48 year old guy and you know, he's like he's like turning around trying to figure out how you can get down without jumping He sits on his butt Don't twist his ankle.

Yeah, we were talking about that. I was my one of my buddies is like, dude, he goes working out You know, I'm starting to feel good. I want to go play pickleball. He goes I didn't get to play I'm like what happened? He goes I bent over to pick up the racket and I turn and pop my back I Bro so so so embarrassing the conversations I feel like we had so this weekend I had a my fantasy football party at my house and so that my buddies and I my best friend is He's coaching his kids soccer team now, and he's in good Like he's good shape guy like but he's not like a workout guy.

Like he just maintains his weight each relatively healthy He's very active And so he always maintains like good weight and he probably walks around at 15% body fat without exercise, okay? And he's always been like he athletic he does outdoorsy stuff and everything like that But he's just not a workout guy He hasn't been for a long time He used to work out when he used to live with me and he's he's motivated to want to get back in the gym He's telling me that he was coaching the soccer game.

He's like bro. He's like man He goes I picked up the soccer ball and I threw it across the building again He goes and she can't get with this pain now I'm like, dude, you can't staying power. Yeah, you can't do that stuff And so we talk about all the time why don't we talk about the show all the time and it's like you hear it It's like the last thing you want to do is throw or do anything remotely explosive at that age when you haven't trained for it You just can't you can't do it anymore, dude, or else absolutely shoulder elbows done I would I would totally just like watching.

I mean you got it You got to keep us updated because I would love to follow. I mean, that's an interesting story to me To be able to at 47 years old and to play at that level too. This isn't like wreck ball No, I mean in junior college, they're really trying, you know to prove themselves because you know Obviously, they're trying to get like into thinking they're gonna get with all the other players. I'm saying they'll probably like let's go, dude Yeah, I I mean maybe yeah Or do they all come on can they're all I'm sure they come on but yeah I know it's funny cuz I that actually was the college I used to like I was trying so hard to get my speed to Increase and you'll get my 40 time better and I worked with their track and field team And so I remember that, you know exclusively I was like I was doing everything all the parachutes I was like running in their pool like everything I could do just to shave that You know a little bit of time off and oh my god, dude.

I it's one of those realizations You're like dude, I I can only get so far So more power to this guy if he thinks he still has it, you know I mean making the team at that age is would be impressive that I mean just him being I can't believe it Yeah, I mean that that's impressive itself regardless of he gets that much I had one of those realizations again recently because my I've told you guys about my brother who doesn't work out It just doesn't work out.

He went to the gym So, you know, I finally did a workout as I did 12 reps of 225 on the bench. Oh my god Why'd you get all the genetics he got all the juice shows up and just start yeah, whatever, dude Yeah, do you ever think though cuz I think about this like the that's why I'm grateful for all of my childhood guys Just that I believe Like I am who I am today because all the all the course, right? Of course, so like would you become like like would you bet him?

You know I'm saying like, you know drive to really lift because like I could go lift whenever I don't know But I just know what's the potential of course, of course I don't know how to I try I was like telling them like cuz we did we made sauce this weekend So, you know my family every year Yeah, we did it last year. We didn't do it. But this year we did it and so we're all hosted it my mom Your mom's always my mom's okay.

It always is and so we were all together Never got a jar of sauce. No, I just forget never. I'm sorry. What is the point of having like how you good friends? Is sauce by the We're all hanging out I was just I'm trying like motivating my brother and so my buddy shows up and I'm like this guy got all The genetics I'm telling him he's like you don't even work out you do that. He's like no and then my brother's trying to talk Crap, you know, he's like, oh my my brother sounds like a four-cylinder twin quad turbo He's like, I'm a VA, you know He loves to say that and I'm like, dude if you just can you just do what I tell you for like just for like Six months, bro.

Yeah, I just want to see what happens to my spirit. Yeah, he's like, nah, I'm all right We did a thousand pounds of tomatoes Yes, yeah, so my dad picked them all up and then where do you guys get him from he goes down It's like it's on the way to Sacramento. I forgot the town. Is there like is there is there? I would think that there's like a place that you always go so we used to so that the tradition was and this is not just my family a lot of time families do this every year that makes us but Originally when my when my mom was a kid and they did it they would go to farms and pick the tomatoes themselves Wow, so they'd pick the tomatoes legit then bring them back and then they do the whole process now We just go and buy the boxes So my dad went I don't remember what town it was But he went and picked up a thousand pounds of tomatoes brings him back and then it's like an assembly line So and I always do the same thing always I'm always the guy that washes and cuts the tomato So we have these huge barrels that we fill with water and you move them in each barrel water So it gets excessively cleaner and then you got to cut them in half Then you bring them inside and we have this machine that you stuff the tomato that oh no Then they cook the tomatoes then you take the cooked tomatoes and you put them in a machine and the machine spits out this the skin and the seeds and Spits out the sauce and then they there's some other stuff that they do with the jars I never I was never been involved with that.

So I'm not quite sure but then they put the sauce That's usually the women are doing that part. Seriously. So we're all we all call compartmentalized It is and then they and then what they do is they put the sauce in the jars and then boil the jars and it seals And then yeah, we have like tons and tons of jars of tomato sauce Wow The best part is always at night after we're all done. We have fresh pasta with sauce. Oh, yeah I'm sure that's so good.

Do you feel like? Can you do you think you can tell or does can your family tell like when you when you go to different farms? Like is it like is there is it very clear on like? Oh, this was a good season. Like can you tell that or is it just I don't know good question I don't know. I just cut the tomatoes I mean, I feel like there's a part of it. It's kind of like good wine, right? Like I mean part of what makes great wine is the grapes is where you get the good news is we're in, California And so this is like some of the best.

Yeah growing for anything is around here So luckily because if you're another part of the country, that's a good question I wonder where families and other parts of the country because Italians do this every year Yeah, when it's a ship a minute they might right? Well, you know, we're not coast where you getting your tomatoes from We're not far from one of the like AG capitals ever is Salinas is known for all of that Yeah, like I think there it's it's one of the best year-round climates for for growing like tomatoes and like forget what else but I've looked It up before it's like artichokes for sure.

Yeah that too. Well, you know, and so, you know, San Jose In fact, I just watched this video about the history of San Jose San Jose was This is this was like all farmland and they grew some of the best fruits and vegetables here for I Think the military base in San Francisco and the rest and other parts of the state And San Jose was like and it was known for it's very fertile land It was all farmland here and then of course, they discovered Silicon and then came Silicon Valley forget that But this is supposed to be some of the most fertile bit land in the world Yeah, is it more the soils are more the clouds a little climate?

Yeah I was like the the climate makes the soil and the climate. Yeah, supposedly are really good Yeah, I'd be interesting to hear from somebody who has obviously that pays more attention to that because you don't is the is the like Is there a huge difference? I would think so I think I would like you get like a great season of of tomatoes and it's like oh, this is the best sauce Yeah, we've ever had how long does do you know this? Do you know how long does sauce say good once you've canned Oh a jar could last two three years.

It can't oh, yeah Oh, yeah It's so awesome Hey, have you guys seen did you did any of you guys watch the Grand Theft Auto on Netflix? Yeah. No Oh, no, I saw the trailer for that, but I didn't what is it watching it? Cuz did you watch on Netflix just the trailer? Yeah, that's I mean, there's a 25 minute Oh, I didn't watch the whole video clip of it started running. Yes. I can you pull Netflix up on here or no? Ah boy, I don't know.

I have to log. So it is you can't find the trailer on YouTube You know, you know, you know what they you know, they spent building this game Oh, it's been working for they've been building it for years. How much how many times they delayed? It's been like a few years of delay Yeah, because of what all everything between 1 and 2 billion dollars video game for a video game. That's great It's the most expensive that by far. That's crazy. Nothing even close to it. So You know, we've there's it's been real quiet to talk about metaverse for a while now It's pretty much that was like a flop for Facebook and everybody else that was kind of pushing the version This has the highest potential in my opinion of What they were trying to do metaverse while now, I don't think you're gonna you're not gonna wear goggles You're still gonna be playing it on a video game and TV, but they're making it to where you can get paid to play You're gonna have real interactive stores and things that you can buy in the rule And if you watch the trailer on this like even like just the first three minutes of it You feel like you're watching a real movie with real people and you're obviously controlling it stuff like that But it's it looks I knew I've heard about it forever, but to see it.

Okay, and I'll go Wow I'm like, I've been so out of the video game world for so long, but it's like dude, this is gonna be yeah Cuz I remember hearing they really the the detail of being able to go inside all the buildings and like be able to like Yeah, run a business and do all these like crazy things inside. Yes Do you guys think if all video games disappeared today? That world that the society would get better or worse worse make no change You think all video games disappear today get worse?

well like if you like rip the band-aid off for us or you mean if like it didn't exist and then people had to figure out what I mean, I guess we could get all like because it's like think of it this way generally speaking Cuz could believe the way my brain went when you said that was everyone's addiction. Exactly. It's like it would be riots 100% like so so it's besides that besides that I think yeah, you're right because that'll be that'll be wild Yeah, it's like me.

It's like you asking like if if you know address name a drug that's highly addictive didn't exist But I just think generally besides that generally you'd see a lot more people socializing I think you'd see a lot more people going out Yeah and hanging out with each other Doug if you were to win if you would have went just to Netflix the streaming service like literally Right on the front page of Netflix is yeah, I don't know what's going on where they sent me, but it's okay I mean the guys can watch it But you guys literally I mean I just wanted you to see the first two or three minutes on it If you go to the home page of Netflix, you'll see it that it's being it's obviously being promoted, right?

There you go. Top left. There you go Oh, and so let's just play it and then you can see does this mean they're close to launching I believe so. I don't know if the boys know if Dylan or Oh, is it November is when they're probably yeah, that makes sense I'll put the I mean it doesn't feel like a video game at all It feels like you're the whole I watch like the first ten minutes of it. It feels like you're watching a whole movie Yeah with a plot that's like so interchangeable and stuff.

That's well. I'm gonna change the subject and talk about a commonly used medication that helps with hair loss and some of the crazy side effects that it produces so Finasteride if he has ever heard of finasteride super popular do test right for an asteroid. Yeah okay, so they both prevent the conversion of testosterone to DHT and DHT is a hormone that the male body has and I don't know if the female body has it I think also and it has some roles. It's androgenic. So it's very androgenic, but it also can play a role in hair loss And so reducing DHT in many cases can stop hair loss or maybe even reverse a little bit but I don't know if you guys are familiar with some of the side effects of finasteride, but it's It's not one that I would mess with I'd be much rather much better off being bald And I know some guys don't know most guys don't experience these side effects, but if they do Whoa, it was like erectile dysfunction kind of stuff or what permanent right like permanent numbness in your penis What Lee permanent like some some guys will get like their sex drive is gone.

Then they go off and it doesn't come back Sometimes it takes a year to come back. Sometimes it doesn't yeah suicide increased risk of depression and suicide From this drug now, they're not huge going viral right now. Is this like it it was an article that was posted I just saw a clip literally before we got on this. It was in my feed is So the New York Post just did an article about this healthy 26 year old who had penis numbness orgasm problems And it was in a year and a half after he stopped taking it still stuck around man But you could look up Doug you could Google finasteride and suicide for us to finasteride and depression It's like all in pursuit of just like not losing your hair now.

It's not a huge risk. So, of course, I'm gonna be clear It's not like it's like this massive risk, but it's still a risk. It's pretty crazy This must be what the so I saw that what's that? What's that kid's name clavicle? Yeah Clavicular I knew some of their stupid name It popped in my feed and Logan Paul was interviewing him and he made obviously it's going viral this clip right now He made this bold statement of I'd rather and they must have been they must have what I didn't see and it makes sense now This is in New York Times and you're bringing it up and like why this even popped in my feed that You know, he would rather Not be able to use his dick be numb than to be bald And so what I'm assuming is because he takes all this stuff, right?

Yeah, he does all this stuff takes all this stuff He's probably taking that and I'm assuming that Logan Paul was asking him What about what they what's come out recently about this and he made the point that he would rather be bald doing Yeah, I think that's crazy crazy. Yeah, what are we doing? Yeah, what do we worship? Well, some people are just really I I didn't realize it until I started shaving my head on the podcast How many people opened up to me about Like how much they struggle with that and it was really tough for me because I really I can't couldn't really I mean I can relate to going bald But I couldn't relate to caring And I think it's kind of wild because I got like psoriasis spots and everything so I like I'm not like that's not the most like Awesome situation for me.

It's like I'm not only do it. Did I go shave that but it's also areas where I have my psoriasis So it's like, you know, I'm sure there's insecurities and I don't like it But it doesn't it doesn't faze me like it phases some people some people it's boy. It really Scared to death of it and it's to where they're doing all these things preventively before they are even going bald or or they have Gone bald and it just is crushing their confidence and like at where it was asking me like how I dealt I was like, man I wish I had something good to say that I had to work through to get there Just it was I was trying to shave my head soon, you know, there's something you could do about it Cuz okay, you can't like I guess you can't just will your hair to not fall out or you know Are the things you could do lifestyle while it's probably not much But you can get jacked like jacked and bald.

This is Yeah, it's a thing you guys like if you really feel bad about it not to mention Getting jacked requires work and discipline and consistency that builds confidence like crazy that also shows Perspective mates that you're that you've got some drive It creates that within you just be bold and jacked I mean, I I think this I actually think that's a really good point because Even though it seems so it seems different because it's like but it's like your physical appearance. I I think I would think but maybe we're not the right people to ask the opposite sex would prefer a Bald jack dude, then a dude with all his hair and sloppy.

Yeah, like I just don't sure I mean, I would think that that you would go there. I would think you know I'm saying like but that's We have a buddy. I don't say too much cuz he gets offended But we have a buddy who's bald who recently just got jacked. He looks way different. Oh, yeah, it's way different Oh, yeah, bro. Yeah, I just saw him the other day and I'm like I mean he was at my house this week. He looks incredible. He's at my house I'm telling you bald and jacked is actually it looks good.

It's like a kind of goes together. Oh, yeah a little bit No, it does and he was getting compliments non-stop all week all this weekend So cuz we're it was like a pool party. So he's walking around the shirt off and everybody. Oh, yeah, everybody's like You're crazy jacked. I've never seen you like this. Yeah, ain't nobody talking about the bald head Nobody said nothing about that butcher. You're but you're bald No one said that Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't know what that is I have a bunch is that because I've seen like somebody like I think it's jujimufu actually like like he wouldn't did his He didn't did the plant or one turkey now.

They got the they got them. They got yeah, there's a whole Around that. Oh, yeah. How much do you think that cost expensive? No, it's not. Well, I don't know how much is in Turkey Turkey bald, whatever Who is like hey, bro, let's go let's go to Turkey I'm like dude So it's for it's between two to four thousand dollars, but then you got a fly there Okay, stay there it used to be like a 40 if that's your main crisis It used to be 40,000 plus and it used to not be as good like now it like it's in the u.s It's eight to eighteen thousand dollars.

I Have a buddy who did it and he took a picture of his head the day. Oh, yeah, you're mad You're messed up for a while traumatized me. Yeah. Yeah, his head looked like a mushroom. Yeah, just cuz yeah the Yeah, it looked like a mushroom. Yeah, you're you're in flame. I was traumatized. You're in flame for a few days He's got a look pretty rough for like a week or two. It takes I think a solid. Can you lose the hair again? You can right?

Oh, yeah Yeah, it's like a real hair it's your real hair dude, so you're just replanting it yeah, no, dude, I'll just Yes, wild. There's a lot. There's a lot of fitness people that have I know I've seen I've seen the I mean it It works. I just I don't care. Yeah, this is like just but I care about you know, why don't I care about it? I care about my cats. Yeah, you know why you don't care. It's like a new lawn that they're You know why you don't care bro, but you're Jeff Guys listen to me don't lift weights It fixes it totally fixes it.

I mean rock whatever you got Oh, you know another or get rich, you know, I'm saying make a lot of money There are two things you could do that that will negate it for sure. Don't make some money Yeah, listen, I would forbid you do both. You're rich. Hey, Jack Yeah, if you're like if you're a fit and you and you are successful like come on bald head sexy suddenly I got I pulled up some studies on exogenous ketones just to change the subject here and Pretty consistently improves cognitive performance in healthy people Sometimes the criticism is that the ketones help when people have metabolic dysfunction, which is true But in healthy people consistently shows cognitive improvement, which is funny that we need to study for this Just try it and see for yourself.

Yeah, right I take I take two a day every day with special we podcast to the ketone IQs. I love the when we when we podcast It's been my favorite thing to add now to like because I'm a caffeine drinker is the back half It's like my go-to back half of the day. It's like front load caffeine early mental sharpness and then emulate the hardcore and then like Keep it going. Yes, totally I think it's anybody who loves coffee or energy drinks for the morning for work and you haven't done ketone IQ Like I urge you to try that try doing that like start your day with your normal caffeine like you do And then once it wears off and then yeah, we're up midday.

Take the ketone IQ and yeah, dude, perfect. It feels great I have this idea. Okay for In okay, so I saw the store. I don't know where it is I think it might be in Asia somewhere, but there's this like rock climbing store and they made it so It's basically a seven story Rock you have to climb just to get into the store. So it totally eliminates posers That's kind of cool, which is great And so if you get there you actually get the gear, you know And so like if you're wearing it people are okay You actually had to like go climb to get it that order to get in you have to God Yes, show me a picture by the way, you guys just do that for fitness I mean, that would be so we get so much backlash, you know for that.

You want to come to the gym? Super exclusive. Yeah, by the way, Asia's a lot of countries Oh Wow, so it's not like a rock climbing wall. It's a rock. No, it's a bunch of stuff. Look at It's just one rock and then you got to go get through layers of the building. Yeah, you just to get up So yeah, bro, I think that's it's cool. It's a cool cause I wonder how well they do I wonder what their insurance has to be to do something like that.

Yeah, it's different there Restrictions on that. Yeah, you know it is smart It is a smart marketing kind of because I'm sure people show up just to just to try it So, you know what you don't I think is interesting about this And I think that we're we're seeing the pendulum swing We went so hard one way. I feel like we're gonna come back the other way One of the things that we went this everything's all-inclusive. I think exclusivity is gonna be like, yes I see that coming back totally think more Private only these people come I think that's gonna become more popular again because we went so hard the other way and this is an example To me of that is just like not everybody come shop here.

Sorry Can't climb the rock can't come can't do it and I bet I bet we see more stuff like this Do you know who started that that whole like you can't come in? Well, it's been around for a long time But was it a studio 54 known for that where they would walk up to the door? Yeah, and the you have to be like hot or the guy at the door be like no you can't come in Oh, that's still today We got like a trouble for that, right?

Yeah, do you know that a lot of and this still happens? How would it hit to the you know, they wait in line you go up to the front the other What they this is what they do. This is still a strategy today is nightclubs downtown Will everybody lie? You always see these crazy lines when you drive by well They have plenty of room to fit the people in will restrict people coming in So other you see how crazy popping it is cuz you're lying. Sure.

It's mark So it looks like there's exactly it's marketing for them and then they'll go and they'll handpick the people Yeah, so you're next in line, you know, but you're goofy looking You want right past you you don't say it in ten people back Oh, you're too big two or three cute girls It's like come on in and so you move move the hot girls in and you you know I never understood the appeal of nightclubs. I just never did you go in there? I know you're smashed.

You can't hear anything because everything's so loud. It's dark You basically have to get drunk. Yeah, otherwise you're anxious There's no the way I'm just anxious in here and I'm tight with everybody and what you didn't go You didn't go through a nightclub fit. Yes. You were you were married at 12. That's why yeah I mean, I was in Chicago. I did my share of like yeah, I like lounges nightclubs are like, oh, yeah It's not like you sound like an old married man Did you like nightclubs?

Yeah, it was cool. I mean at an age at a certain point my life It's not how you girls are gonna be there. Yeah, but we were like, but you I like the day I like to dance. I like to drink you really like dance. Yeah. Yeah as bad as I am. I still like it You really like it, bro. Bring it on. Yeah, I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed of that. I've seen my bald head. Let's go Katrina will tell you that she could always tell how many drinks I've had by She goes she's like under under four he's embarrassing to be with six all sudden he's like everybody's watching dance And I'm not a I'm not sober enough to know what it is to be able to put it together but something happens I feel like Justin does the splits.

No. Yeah, you did. I used to do like the worm It turns into fights when I have too many Yeah, you never you never so you never went to the nightclubs Vegas scene any that stuff I did it a couple times, but I just never understood like I did nightclubs where we had like table service where you're roped off That's so different. Yeah, but when you're in with everybody did that you just slammed smashed together and it's just not I don't know I would I would hate to be a woman in that by having dudes all up against you and just it's just uncomfortable Yes, it's kind of weird to me that you'd see groups and they didn't want anybody to interact with them And it's like what are you doing here?

Like, you know, it's gonna happen I mean, I'm so I'm so pro that versus where the society has gone the last 10 15. I agree I think at least it's social. Yeah It's like stay home and swipe, right? No, you're right. You know, I'm saying like way worse Who cares? Let's go out and get you know, been a Sardines in a club and maybe meet someone rejected a bunch of time. Yeah Yeah one time you look and learn the hard way they look different when the lights come on later on I'm saying like that's all part of growing up Experience wasn't a mustache.

It's a part. It's a part of growing up man. So yeah, no, I'm way more It's a part of girl. I mean, I don't I don't like it now at 45 No, I was like, yeah, I was I mean that will mean that was that was the thing that house You're right is better than what's happening now. Yeah, nobody goes out. Yeah Did you guys remember remember when there was a thing where there were these they were like nightclubs, but you were headphones So you listen to your own thing.

You listen to your own music. So why why are you here to be alone, dude? Well, what do we do? I just saw I've seen they have like different color. Yeah Yeah, you know that person act with the person that's vibing to that color still think it's done. I just feel it's tooths It's dumb. Yeah, it's dumb. It's like I was just somewhere. Where was I at? It kind of defeats the purpose It's like can I be alone while being around people? Yeah, I forget what they call them, but they're they're like they're silent dance parties with and you're right They everyone's got these high headphones on they've normally had like two or three different songs playing and they're dead the different colors So they're trying to just cater to introverts it is the I'm not a silent dance party.

Yeah Social gathering where you're not so much you just like walking. You don't know You know everybody's like what one of the best reasons to like to walk away and get a one-on-one talk is because too loud It's too loud. Yeah, I can't hear dance with someone you're vibing. You're like She's like, yeah, yeah, let's go Versus you're there as soon as everybody can hear you're like trying to talk to her. Yeah I didn't oh you guys got my text last week. I chip my tooth.

It's fixed though. Let's see. Oh Emergency dentist, so I chipped my tooth making out with a guy with a tongue ring. That's 100% That's not what he said Less PC way more PC, but it also involved the piercing Yes No, I just my tooth and I felt it and I'm like no because my dentist doesn't work on Fridays and it happened Thursday at 5 p.m. Most of it is still when he closed. So I was like, what am I gonna do? So I'm like I'm looking around so I found a dentist that was like emergency and I went in there and they fixed it up They also fixed the other one that was kind of chip.

How did you chip both teeth? The other tooth chipped a long time where I forgot what I was doing this one I was literally biting my nails and my teeth came together real hard. Oh and I chipped a little before it was so awkward but like I had you know, I have caps and so like I Had one that was just a temporary and it was on the very front and you know over the weekend I was like eating something and then I was out in public and I ended up eating the cap and I just had like one little thing Okay, oh my god What what's wrong and I go in the battle Is there a regular maintenance for veneers, do you have to like regularly go like I'm sure there is Cuz I'd yeah, I'm sure they only last like I'm sure it's like a decade or so, but it's really yeah You have to get them done again.

So not all the way. I bet it's just like just like yeah Reseal them or something. I'm sure yeah, because the technology I mean Basically what they are right? That's like that's what veneers basically are right? I mean, they're super durable Yeah, more so than then even like enamel. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're supposed to be supposed to last for a long time I think maybe forever maybe until you're dead. Let's see. Oh 10 to 15 years. Justin was ready last 20 to 30 years That's what made me concerned.

I was like, dude, really? Am I gonna like have to go back in? Oh, you would think that that would be part of the deals like you get them and then then it's it's not I wouldn't Think it would be as much to keep them. You know, we're healing means Polish them up and buff them out. Yeah, no, I got mine done And so if you go, let's see here 20 to you get if you get 30 years out of me just my chocolate I'm just being a fit.

Yeah If you get to you'll get 10 or 15, you're gonna have to redo that but if you're like, what is that? That's gonna put you if you go 30. I'll be honest 75 75 This is my scare all the kids if I just have the spikes, oh, man, I couldn't rock that. Oh, yeah, but they can fix that Yeah, even if you're scary, even if you were jacked it wouldn't look good You gotta have good teeth the dentist she was doing mine and she's like, so what do you why do you need?

He's done so quickly cuz I call him like listen. It's emergency. I got work in media. Yeah, of course. I started comfort conversation Yeah, so she's like hey After you know now that we're done cuz I like them. I said, oh you did a good job She goes well, you can give me a shout-out. I'm like, you don't even know what media I work for You even recognize me. So you don't get anything. Yeah, her assistant's like oh, I was being serious Yeah, you don't listen to my pop.

You get no shout-out. Sorry lady. I paid the bill You gotta love that right? So what he's like, they don't even give me a shout-out. Oh, yeah. No, here's your bill Do you shout me out? Yeah, she was really good She did a really good job, but then she was tell me about Pilates afterwards. I'm like, you definitely don't listen to my I Don't want to say I don't want to get bulky. So I just do Pilates that sculpted like dude How often if you only knew he were talking to?

Bro, I don't even get engaged those car. I don't even like I don't say nothing. Yeah, it's a whole conversation Yeah, and I don't want to discourage someone from doing no I'm the same way too because then it turns into a long old thing. It's just like, you know, it's cool It's in the podcast sometime. Yeah Tell me more about your reform, you know, my business partner thinks dentists are all fraud. I'll see you later. Yeah Yeah in dinosaurs don't exist. Yeah, I'm just gonna drop see you later If you guys know how much I paid bro, oh Emergency time.

Yeah It was a nice nice chunk. I don't even want to know that stuff is up to now You weren't about to show up with a podcast. No, bro First of all, I don't care that much but you guys would just the whole episode you guys we make it fun. It'd been amazing Yeah No Everything is I guess ridiculously inflated right now, dude I just texted my buddy where he had to go get his oil change We have the same same car and he had it's only been one year since he had been there and I was telling him how Much it cost me and he's like damn dude, you got to go over to my place.

I'm like, he's like they don't it It costs half that I'm like, I don't know bro. I'm like, I don't think it had anything I said, I think I think the guy hooked me up to and he goes no He's like for I've never paid more than this since he's telling me his number and I'm like, all right 95 yeah. Well, no, it was just a year ago. It's just a year ago Anyway, he went to he went yesterday and I see it. What's your bill?

And it was 300 bucks more than mine Wow, and I'm like and he's just like dude He's like I tell you what he goes. I might just handle this myself going for you No along those lines Costco has predicted since they've been in business every recession Based off of spending habits of interest rumors. Do you know what that note? It is interesting You want to know what it is? Yeah, it's happening right now. Oh telling consumers when they switch from beef To Chicken and then from chicken to tuna and canned meats when those switches start happening interest it predicts a recession and it's happening right now So Costco just put out a fascinating topic Yeah People move away from beef then they go to the cheaper like chicken and then away from that to the canned meats and that's what They're noticing right now.

It's a big swing Because it because beef prices when I was like another 17% sure no, it's nuts Everything everything is is nuts what the prices are right now and it's not getting any better. Everything is is dude I just went to like the arcade like down with the boys I had them by myself this weekend and I was like, yeah house and let's go we went down there and You know, most games were like a dollar like that. Yeah one game. Yeah one game, you know that game where you just shoot Targets.

Yeah has all those like No, five bucks to shoot just to do I'm so like I Get over it I can't get over this Outrageous you start to do the math you like shit. I'll just go buy this thing for home Yes, use it three times in the next year. We've already made our money out of it That's I was like over in the old-school section with like Q Bert. Yeah. Yeah, I'm playing stuff for like 50 So they still have the arm wrestling machine there They know I don't I didn't see that but they had a Guitar hero like it's set up and I was like, oh, I want to get one of these for my house They used to have a really good arm wrestling machine on the boardwalk a really good one and it looked like a yeah Pro wrestler with the arm with the big arm.

Yeah, he talked crap to you Yep, if you couldn't beat him and it was actually difficult and I remember as a kid we would do it every year We went and there was well 60 when I can finally beat it. That's It's wild to think that in just our lifetime game like that is $5 my grandmother used to drop me off here in San Jose when I was a kid at the nickel arcade and Leave me with $5 and I'll play for hours. Yeah hours Yeah, I played off of five five bucks to think that you get one game.

You're done. Mm-hmm That's dude. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, well that long ago that was like a kid playing arcade games with it Doug was a kid was a shekel We had pong Treat shells It was a string. We just Did you guys see the did you guys see the pickleball video I shared on my Instagram story? No, I was like like one of the greatest like rallies or whatever. I shared it I bet a lot of people didn't pick up on it though because I shared it because of the comments.

Oh my god Oh, yeah, you got it. You'll enjoy it. Yeah. It was like I mean, it was a great rally It definitely was but it's so The game is so easy. I'm saying that it's like Minimal movement. Yeah, very very minimal movement for this long run and the the comment section was just Oh diabolical, bro I was dying so I shared it but then I thought after I shared I was like Oh, I bet a bunch of people think I'm sharing this cuz I've been to openly talking about how I love pickleball now Yeah, I think it's like I Showed some means talking trash, but it's funny cuz like I would I would play and make fun of it the same time That's how that's exactly me right now.

I'm exactly like I'm all in love it. I think it's great at the same time, too I know it's ridiculous. Yeah Joy mode is a pre sex supplement. That's right. You take it before intercourse for better performance. It's also good pre-workout It's not a stimulant based product all it does and it does this effectively is Increase blood flow in a big way So this product was created because ones on the market were terrible and prescriptions come with all sorts of side effects You don't want to get those you don't want to get those side effects Joy mode is simple.

It's easy. It's natural and it really works. It's backed by data Here's what you do. You tear open the packet you pour it into six to eight ounces of water you drink it and 45 minutes to four hours later You perform much better again. You can also use it as a pre-workout. It's also good for endothelial health So increased blood flow is good for your vascular system. So this also can be a health supplement That's how I use it. Go check them out Go to try joy mode comm slash mind pump use the code mind pump get 20% off back to the show Our first caller is Julie from Illinois, hi, Julie.

Hi, Julie Hi guys. Thanks so much for having me on and I really appreciate it. You got it. How can we help you? um First of all, I just want to say thanks. You guys have been a welcome routine to my morning and I really appreciate all you're doing for Everyone in the personal training space and the fitness industry to try and get people to be more Knowledgeable and be able to take care of themselves in a in a good way for life. Thank you So I did send you guys a recent update I'm gonna try and kind of summarize my initial email because I know I'm a little bit wordy So initially when I reached out to you guys, I wanted Some assistance with knowing what type of program selection I should utilize to help with improving bone mineral density and strength Because my initial DEXA scan showed some osteopenia At the time I was 46 now I'm 47 5 feet 4 and have been 115 pounds most of my life until recently I am currently up to 130 after starting a reverse diet I think my osteopenia stems from years of excessive cardio insufficient nutrition and genetic factors petite frame Caucasian with The goal of trying to improve my bone density before going fully into menopause Initially, I wanted to know what ideal rate I should wait.

I should be targeting for I did Change my macros. I went Initially, I was consuming about 2,300 calories. I bumped all the way up to about 3,200 calories a day macro tracking currently is about 120 to 160 for protein 90 to 120 for fat and about 250 to 300 carbs I am fully vegan because of a lipoprotein a Abnormality that's genetic and I started that in December of 2022 With my recent update that I sent you guys I Initially did your free 30 days of training when I first found your podcast Then did map strong max performance maps anabolic and I'm currently in phase three of maps aesthetic But I'm not doing the volume that's recommended in the program So if it says like four or five sets, I'm usually doing three on the focus days.

I am doing Mobility or more like a recovery day Although I had a strength training background before starting your programming I was not consistently doing movements such as deadlifts bench press barbell back squats and overhead press Initially, I saw a good strength gains with my reverse diet, but I feel like my progress has plateaued for a while I've not been able to increase the amount of weight I can lift since finishing map stronger math Performance and no changes occurred with maps anabolic in a calorie surplus At the same time my weight has increased and I feel noticeably fluffier around my abdomen and thighs The number on the scale itself doesn't really bother me It's more that my legs and my stomach are larger and I can't fit into some of the clothes that I was able to wear last summer even like around January I have I Was at the 3,000 to 3,200 calories per day until starting maps aesthetic Since then I've reduced my intake a little bit averaging about 2,700 calories per day I typically eat closer to 3,000 on the lifting days and 25 to 26 on mobility or walking only days My workout has also changed Recently from 7 45 a.m.

To 5 a.m. On work days and later on on work days because of the earlier time I don't feel as awake or as strong during my workouts and I expect that this will need to factor on how I approach my Training going forward. I've also had some health changes since I initially wrote to you guys. I started HRT and thyroid medication back in November with my levothyroxine and Progesterone being bumped up and then was given an estradiol patch in April I've also been suffering some from elevated fasting glucose since August of 25 and I just talked to Vita Bella and started a GLP one medication at a microdose to try and get my fasting blood glucose closer to being below a hundred because it's been running about a hundred to 110 120 sometimes I also did a repeat DEXA scan in January that showed normal bone density for someone my age using a T-score rather than a ZEKE score that was used on my initial test The scan did show a discrepancy between my hips and I did tear my meniscus on the left side at 30 Although my in body scans in the past and unilateral strength work does not show a discrepancy So, I guess Other things you should be aware of I typically get about a hundred and twenty scans a year You should be aware of I typically get about six point five to seven hours of sleep on nights that I have to work eight Tonight on weekends Friday through Sunday my walking is initially about or has been consistent.

So somewhere between 8,000 and 12,000 steps lately Sometimes I hit about 15,000 but it's usually because I'm trying to do a post-lunch walk for about 10 minutes I'm also trying to rest approximately 90 seconds to two and a half minutes between sets But sometimes I will hear exercises to make my workouts more efficient. For example deadlifts with overhead press and bench press with rows Current goals at this time are bone health improving glucose control Maintaining or reducing my current abdominal and thigh size so I don't have to continue to buy larger clothes Continuing to build or maintain strength without adding unnecessary body mass.

So with that I want to know how should I be approaching my nutrition? How should I structure my strength training given my current plateau earlier workout time and slight calorie deficit? Should I continue with three lifting days per week or would you recommend a different training frequency? And what would you recommend that best programming the best programming approach would be for my next year to prioritize bone health glucose control? Strength and maintaining my current body size. Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much for very thorough Julie Like I told you Everything you want and then Very good, and I could tell you listen to the podcast.

Yes. Yeah, which is great. You did a great job So how since starting the micro dose of terzapatite has that has that had any impact on your fasting glucose? Um, I've only taken two doses. It's been 98 to 100. So nothing like significant because I check it every morning What tell me a little bit about your diet know you're vegan and you're consuming between 25 to 2,700 calories What does that look like? What makes up your diet? Um, so breakfast is oatmeal with mixed nuts Brazil nut for selenium fourth a cup of mulberries some Soy milk and then two scoops of a plant-based Protein powder that has no added sugar or anything Lunch is a very large salad.

That is Two cups of lettuce a bunch of vegetables half an avocado homemade dressing What else to be thrown there it's usually about a seven to 900 calorie salad including a cup of chip chickpeas that I air fry Sometimes prunes sometimes like a homemade muffin. I make Peanut butter like something along those lines dinner is a lot of vegetables at least one or two servings or two at least two cups of that and then some sort of I'm trying to think like this week we made I mean sweet potato burgers So I do a homemade bun and then I did a lentil salad and braised cabbage with apples And an energy protein bite that's made out of peanut butter or some protein powder So we make pretty much everything but I'm hitting between 30 and 60 grams of protein per meal okay, and you had said that you don't eat animal proteins and it's because it affects your Your blood lipid levels then they start to get a little a little haywire So I have lipoprotein a I'm not sure if you're familiar with it.

So it's a genetic cholesterol that our liver makes So I had a carotid so even though I've been healthy for most of my life My carotid ultrasound has my arterial age at 67. Okay, so because of that I Went to see a preventative cardiologist who then recommended a vegan diet to try and mitigate the risks that can come Potentially with having air cholesterol. That is a lot of people have a lot of anxiety about it, but it's also a lot of anxiety about Air cholesterol that is Not genetic.

We're gonna say that and then he's got me on some supplements and I do a repeat carotid I did it two years ago I have a repeat carotid that I have to do this fall to then see if it's either halted or potentially reversed Some of the supplements I'm on so if that makes sense, so I started tracking like I wasn't food tracking until I Went vegan with my husband because I wanted to make sure we were hitting all of our nutrition targets So we use chronometer, I don't know if you know that app so it's very specific it'll break down fiber it breaks down all yours your Amino acids so, you know, like we're out of the park for pretty much everything So make sure we're getting all the nutrition with what we're eating.

Okay, that's great And then since switching to the diet, I know you haven't checked your carotid to see if there's any changes or improvements Have you noticed any changes in? Energy vitality strength sleep or is it all you sound like you've planned it pretty well So I'm curious to see if there's any any changes positive or negative um Initially, I felt like I had more energy. I Don't feel like the energy has been you know, this is now going on a few years I think the energy changes that I've had have been more related to thyroid Because when they started me on the thyroid meds things felt better and then when things started to go off again And when they bought my thyroid meds again recently, I think I was April or May I told her like I was starting to feel tired.

I would do not get tired in the afternoons I was starting to feel tired in the afternoons. I was freezing like my hands and my feet were cold all the time It just seems like you know constipation was worse like all these different things that I felt like we're more Thyroid driven, so I don't think it's dietary related if that makes sense Yeah, it does and are you supplementing with like a central amino acid? acids, creatine, maybe your B vitamins, some of the things that sometimes people can become deficient in even with a well-planned vegan diet?

Yeah. I get regular blood work, so all that's good, but I do B12, I do a super B complex, I do vitamin D, I do omega-3s, I do 10 grams of creatine daily. Awesome. So I think all those bases are covered. Yes, they are. That's great. And then just kind of a personal question, are you enjoying this process? Because it sounds like you're managing so many different things, and you're counting so many things, and I want to make sure it's not an additional stress on you.

I like the meal planning, I actually don't mind the tracking, like that's not a big deal. The supplements, I feel like we have it down. I've worked out since I was 13 in some capacities, so the fitness thing isn't something that's going anywhere. That's part of my life, I think if anything, that's the one thing I would never want anybody to take away from me, if that makes sense. It does. I mean, I know you guys are all along those lines, so kind of nutty, really like going to the gym every day, even if it is just stretching or doing something like that.

Good. The one objective metric that I would pay closest attention to, only because it's most strongly correlated with what you're most interested in, which is bone density and blood glucose, would be strength. So it's harder to be objective with muscle gains. You can do DEXA scans, but sometimes you can be more hydrated, less hydrated, and simple muscle mass isn't as great of a predictor for those things as actual strength. So that's the objective we want to pay closest attention to. If you're getting stronger, you're probably doing a lot of things right, and if that continues on, bone density moves in that same direction.

As you get stronger, you gain muscle, which is great for blood glucose, one of the best ways to- And or maintaining her strength while she's in some sort of a cut and die, because one of the things you've done really good too is been able to reverse diet and get your calories up to a very healthy place. So one of the things I hear too is wanting to, sounds like, reduce a little bit of body fat or inches around the waist or whatever. So being able to reduce calories and be able to maintain strength would actually be a really good win for us.

Yeah. Now MAPS aesthetic is a lot of volume, even with the reduction in the volume. I like MAPS 15. If you like going to the gym every day, you said it already, I would put you on a MAPS 15. Yeah, I go every day. I figured you guys were probably going to put me on a 15. The only reason I did MAPS aesthetic is because I bought your bundle and I had already done MAPS performance. And then I did MAPS- I mean, you did the right thing with it, by the way.

You did incredible. Obviously, you listened to the podcast, we could tell because of how you modified it on your own without any coaching from us is great. But just to kind of break it down for you, so I'm trying to recall, MAPS aesthetics is typically like three exercises per large body part. Even if you cut down the sets to three, you're doing nine sets, three days a week per body part, which is still high volume. Or even six, three times a week would be high volume per body part for most people.

So that's even with the reduction in volume. Now going to MAPS 15, what you'll probably notice with no other changes, so no other changes in diet, no other changes in anything else, what you'll probably notice is by the second week, strength increases. And if that happens, we're on the right track. And I think that's probably what's going to happen. And I think, I guess I was, you know, I really looked forward to anabolic and then to not see any strength gains over that. I was kind of surprised because I, again, I was reverse dieting.

I was eating the 3,000 to 3,200 calories and I just, I had never done full body days. That was my first program doing like everything. I've always done some sort of split or something a little bit different. So I'm not quite sure why, unless that's more that hormonal piece. I would guess going through the thyroid thing, change of time, and also going through that a second time. Well, let me ask you the difference between, what was the difference for you between phase one and let's say phase three?

Because they're very different. Did you notice any changes between the two? Strength? Yeah, either strength or energy. Phase three is much more volume than phase one. So I just had a curiosity. I don't remember. This was back in like March or April, maybe May. I'm trying to remember exactly because I'm on phase three of anabolic right now. But now with the volume I'm doing, like the full workout, I cut into two. So like there's the three workouts a week. I'm doing like half of a workout, and then the next day I'll do a half workout, then I take a day off.

You get what I mean? But I don't remember. So with anabolic, I know my least favorite is probably the five by fives. I don't know if that's part of anabolic or just in general, because that's not a way that I was accustomed to training before you guys. So I really have to wrap my head around being safe, I guess, as I do it, or feeling comfortable so that I don't get hurt. Because I'm always, that's kind of in the back of the mind. So like the one program, maybe it was anabolic.

Instead of doing a barbell back squat, I just modified it to a back squat. That's fine. Because then I felt like I had enough control where if I don't, I would just sit down. It's not a big deal. Perfectly fine. I'd like to send you Mass 15, and I'd like to see how you respond to that. And just follow it as it's laid out. And like I said, if by week two or three, you're getting stronger, we're moving in the right direction. And a good goal would be, based off your annual goals since you asked that, setting up would be to not manipulate diet yet, stick with the way you're eating, just change the program.

If all things go well, and we start to see strength, and then you still feel like you want to see some body composition change, you're in healthy enough calories that we could just put you in a calorie reduction for a little while, while staying on Mass 15. And then remember, when we do something like that, really the goal is just to maintain strength. If you can maintain strength in a calorie deficit, that's a huge win. I wouldn't expect strength gains to continue to progress while I'm also putting you in a deficit, which is why also I think keeping the diet where it is now, reap some benefits from added strength, if the programming was the right program for you.

And then, if and only then, if you start to, and maybe you'll see body composition change just from that, which I wouldn't manipulate calories. But if, let's say we've continued through Mass 15, you did build some strength, but you still have that, ah, I wish I had a couple, I wanted to inch off my waist still, or I wish I was a little bit leaner, then I'd put you in a calorie deficit with the goal of trying to maintain strength. Then what calories should I be keeping at this point?

I think stay where you're at. The 2700, where you're at right now. What you're doing, I love too how you're undulating it. I know now you'll be in the gym every day, but undulating the way you are is perfectly fine. Yeah, so you can kind of average it. Okay, so just a little more. So aim for 25 to 2700? Yes. Okay. Yep. And then, if, so I keep going, at what point during the strength gains would I decide to then go on a cut? Like, how much, would I run the whole program, and then the second time I run the whole program, in fact, if appetite increases and strength increases during the program, I actually might bump your calories again.

So if, yeah, and play the reverse diet. So if you're seeing strength gains and appetite, you feel increase, feed that. And then, at the end of the program, I'd say, then let's go into a cut, because then we're cutting from an even higher place, which would be even more advantageous. And what would I cut to? If you're averaging 2600 calories, 2200 calories would be a sufficient cut. Yeah. For how long? For a whole program? For a month? Yeah. I think a whole program would work just fine.

Those are great questions, by the way, Julie. I think I can, yeah, this is great. So, yeah, I would go a whole cycle of MAPS 15, and then follow a different MAPS 15 if it worked and you got stronger. We have a lot of MAPS 15 versions, so we have like MAPS 15 Muscle Mommy and Strong, and then follow it again in a cut if everything worked well and you got stronger. Where that would look different is if you actually reverse diet during this process right now.

increase, and I get you back up to, say, 29, 3000 calories, then you could pull all the way down to, say, 25 to 500 calorie deficit, and you're eating more, and we'll see some of those results. So, really aiming for that 300 to 500 calorie deficit after we've gone through 15 trying to build strength and trying to reverse diet. Are you, by the way, Julie, are you wearing a CGM for the glucose? No, I had a, my provider gave me a CGM. I had two, so I did it twice.

I didn't really learn that much. It just seems to be the fasting that's primarily the biggest piece is where I'm having issues. It would be also like if I eat bananas or oranges, or if I don't move after lunch. So that's why I try and do a little bit of some activity for five to 10 minutes after lunch, because then I would see my numbers start to go up to like 160 instead of, if I move right away, it's like 120 was where I would peak at, and maybe 130, and then it would go back down.

Okay. I'm not quite sure, because I'm on a super low dose GLP. I don't know if they're going to titrate it up, if they want to see, like, how long am I going to be with this? I don't know if that's going to influence my appetite. A microdose might in a way that's kind of imperceptible, but I would be very careful with someone like you who is trying to improve bone density to go at a high dose of a GLP. Well, and that's not the goal.

I told you, I tried to, I mean, I put it off for a year, and now it's just kind of like nothing's working, and I don't know how to fix that piece, and just not wanting to trip to being diabetic as I try and get all this hormone stuff under control. Look into berberine, if you have any. I'm already on berberine. How's that helping? Has that helped anything? No. Let's see what happens with the strength training. What I want to do, Julie, is I want you all back on in 30 days.

I was just going to ask you, Julie, are you familiar with our concierge program? I've heard you guys talk about it. It's just we're in the process of buying a house, and then some of the medical stuff that I've had going on lately has escalated the bills a little bit, so the concierge is not good right now. No worries. But it would be something I would be interested in. Yeah, I know. I'm just listening to you. You're such a good candidate for this. You ask so many great questions.

You're the type of person who I think ... We don't always talk to people about it, because I think most people need a lot more detailed coaching and more hand-holding. You're so thorough, detailed that checking in once a month with a coach who's just overseeing what you're doing and making those tweaks, you're just a great candidate for it. But for now, are you able to progressively overload? I know you're a little bit nervous about the five-by-five protocol and adding weight. Is adding weight something you're able to gradually, progressively do, or is that something still you're a little nervous about?

It kind of depends on the day. For five-by-fives, the highest I can get is a 45 plate on each side for the box squat. That's really good. I was just worried you were like ... That's really good. Yeah. No. I mean, I guess because I've worked out for so long. It depends. When I was doing Abstrong, I was doing overhead press or clean and press, I have to remember because this was a while ago, with 60. Today I did an aesthetic because I'm doing the ...

You do that and then you pair it with the rear delt. I just did 30s this morning or just a 30 overhead press regular because I was like ... And part of it's too, it's 5 a.m. I don't know how you guys start 5 a.m. Yeah. I know. It's hard to ramp it up early. But even working out at 7.30 compared to 5 is completely different. Totally. Totally. Yeah. You just said something that gives a little more context to this conversation too. I think the reason why Justin was asking because he's just curious to like, are you barely putting any weight on?

Yeah. I'm just hoping you're pushing. You're pretty strong already too. Yeah. You are strong. That's good weight. Squatting 135 is very good weight for any female client of mine. That's also something to consider too is ... I don't necessarily think that you're at peak strength but you've already got a lot of those beginner gains that people who just get started. So seeing continued increase, like expecting you're just going to keep seeing increase on a squat like that. I mean, us being able to maintain 135 is a very, very huge win too.

Well, and I guess because it's not full range then I kind of discredited it a little bit. That's still true. That's still good weight. So when I do ... That's still good weight. If I'm having a good regular day and I'm doing like an 8 to 12 rep range, it would be 35 on each side. Yeah. If I'm having a good day. That's still ... 25 on each side is good. That's really good. You're at 130 pounds. Yes. You're doing that. You're getting after it. I had no idea you were lifting that.

I would have guessed just a lower just based on this conversation. That's good weight. You're strong. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to have you back on in 30 days if that's okay. I want to see how you do in four weeks on MAPS 15. Okay. All right? And then based off of that ... It might be pushed a little bit because of my work schedule but yeah. That's fine. That's okay. More time is better for us. Yeah, 30 to 45 days, something like that.

Whatever. I'm going to have you back on. Check back in and make any changes if we need to. Okay. I appreciate it. You got it. We'll see you then. All right, Joe. Thank you. Keep it up. All right. Thanks so much, guys. You got it. Keep doing what you do. Thanks. Bye-bye. That was good, thorough, and I'll tell you what, for people listening right now, these are fun clients. Yeah. Great questions. Why is it fun? Because the answer isn't so obvious. Although I do feel the reduction of volume is going to give her the strength that she gains because she's got so many things covered.

100%. Yeah. This is one of those clients where it's like, let's test this and see what happens because it's a little bit more of a challenge. Well, I mean, we've experienced this personally. We've experienced this with clients, a lot of clients too. And I think this just highlights ... The fact that she's as strong as she is also kind of points to this too, in my opinion. She's already kind of reaching kind of ... So her volume is higher than what you would think a 130-pound girl her age would be doing because she's actually probably moving some good weight.

So I bet mass 15, similar to how we all experience even mass 15 for ourselves, like, oh my God, I got stronger in mass 15. Well, yeah, because at this point when you've been ... Lifting that long and you've already reaped a lot of the benefits just adding more volume is the opposite of what you probably do And so yeah, I think she's gonna see great benefits from that. Our next caller is Dave from Georgia. What's up, Dave? How you doing Dave? Hey, how's it going guys?

Man, you know, I wish I could remember exactly what I typed in as my question request when I made it I pretty much know the gist of it. Can I give you a little bit of background? Yeah. Yeah wing it So I'm 50 I just turned 50 this past May and I grew up an athlete and then when I got to high school Started down the wrong path with some drugs and alcohol kind of went a different direction with it Things got out of control. I got cleaned up and finished college when I was 22 got back in shape Everything was going really well Some life things happen life events kind of went back down that wrong road and started drinking quite a bit again got married had four kids and In 2019, I woke up weighing 350 pounds and was really unhappy depressed Anxiety through the roof just not being the husband father and human.

I wanted to be in that. I knew that I could be had had some help with some friends and found a gym local gym on Facebook that was you know, 20 first 20 men to respond kind of get a free shot to Interview and go for a weight loss challenge. I entered that just figured I might as well give it a shot I've tried everything else and for some reason some of the folks that I met at this gym really kind of clicked with me and Everything kind of went from there.

I wound up losing a hundred pounds over the next three years and after that kind of got in a position where My friend who ran the gym who he became my friend. He ran the gym He left the gym and we're now workout buddies. So we work out three four times a week strength training Recently listening to your podcast over the last couple of years kind of thinking about some different things got a DEXA scan done I mean, I'm in a pretty good place guys. I really am.

I'm happy with myself We're for the first time in a really long time coach my son in football coach my son in baseball a Daughter plays softball for high school and so I'm kind of where I need to be as a husband and a father again Good employees successful at work just happy with who I am But it's time for me. I think to take it to the next level. So what I've been thinking about were Items that you talked about like your vo2 max things of that nature spoke to spoke about that with the guy who did the DEXA scan kind of opened my eyes to a few different things and Visceral fat and how I get rid of that kind of stuff and in a place right now where I'm six foot tall 255 pounds body fat was 26% Muscle mass is you know, I think he said top 80 top 85 top 90% of men my age So again in a good spot, but really want to take it to the next level and I hate cardio I love with lifting weights.

I love being strong. I've always been a bigger guy Have kind of toyed with the idea of you know, quote-unquote becoming a runner just not for me and Really just wanted to kind of hear what you guys had to say about maybe some suggestions I've listened to the reverse dieting part and not really quite have my my head wrapped around that just yet And I think I know the answer is guys to be clear like in terms of you know Dialing in my diet being more strict or at least more Making a concerted effort towards my diet and getting some more cardio worked in but I love the way that you guys really attack issues when Callers bring them up and was just really excited to get on the show and hear what you guys might have to say and maybe Inject a little bit more life into my current plan and maybe give me a little bit more life to take a couple couple steps Forward.

Yeah, thanks for calling in man. I like I like that. Your goal is to increase your vo2 max I like that a lot because it's a performance goal Performance goals tend to be better overall than aesthetic goals performance goals can contribute to better aesthetics, but oftentimes When we chase aesthetics we sacrifice things like performance and sometimes health So I like that you said that I heard that you don't like to run and you don't like to do cardio I feel you But an easy way to increase your view to max would be to do some form of activity that gets you to breathe hard But do it do something you enjoy doing like play something I tried to pick up all this summer and I didn't mind it I mean that would be the key right there.

You like lifting weights thing fun. You got a workout partner Do something that involves a little community? Friendship or your kids your kids, so you're not counting. You know, I'm doing 30 minutes of this exercise You're just going out and you're just moving your body You're more likely to be consistent. You're more likely to get better results doing that You're more likely to forget that you're working out when you're doing that. That'd be it once a week Once a week something that gets you to move that you enjoy With people that you enjoy being around would be the only thing I would say you could add you could also there's there's there's ways To improve this to in in in shorter bouts that are paired with your eye.

I loved Post this is I use this a lot when I was competing And it also had the benefits on the VO 2 max. It also had benefits on leaning out losing body fat post workout I would get do 12 minutes of hit cardio and what that looked like is I'd pick you know Stairmaster elliptical treadmill, whatever and for literally 15 to 20 seconds I get after it my and let my and my heart rate goes as Basically as hard as I can you work up to that so don't go full-on sprinting I like things like an elliptical or Stairmaster to start with so you don't pull a muscle trying to do something crazy or a bike But you go after it as hard as you can for 15 seconds And then allow that heart rate to come all the way back down It'll probably take you when you first start doing this a minute to two minutes Maybe in a little bit longer To feel your heart rate come all the way back down and then do it again And you only just do 12 minute 12 minute blocks of that a couple times a week Paired with what Sal's doing some play on the weekend with your kids or something like pickleball or something you like doing and you'll really Improve that yeah, you'll make you'll make big headway On that vo2 max by doing that and then the other thing I would it sounds like you've already kind of aware of it like tightening up the diet Would be and I know if you've listened the show you've probably heard us The easiest thing man is I just was someone like you I just think we're just gonna track protein and my first rule to you is you hit that you eat that first and Always do that first and that seems to take care of a lot of the things And then if there's anything egregious that you're aware of that you do like if you're you know a couple times a week you pound The ice cream late at night, or there's you know a treat that you always do that's mine.

That's why I call that one out So whatever if there's something major and egregious than probably tapering off of that, but then really just focusing on the protein I think takes care of a lot of the problems. I love what you guys said about the aesthetics because I think I'm not I'm not a psychiatrist But I kind of feel like that might be what got me into a little bit of a lull in my training is you know? Going from 350 pounds to 250 pounds was a huge improvement right and just being miserable with you know How I felt and how I looked and then getting to a place where man I I really like the way I look and and being 50 I'm assuming you know I think this is the second part of the question that I had originally sent in The elasticity right like so I've lost a ton of weight And I've got kind of loose skin going on that I don't know how to get rid of I don't know if you know eventually Surgery is the only option or if there's other ways to kind of tighten that up, but yeah like again looking in the mirror I went from 350 to 250 and I feel great about myself and love what I see in the mirror Well then over the next year to two years of kind of seeing that same thing It's kind of put me back and well now I'm not so happy with what I see and I lose sight of Where I came from and what I've gotten to and I've kind of lost sight of that And I look at I just I want I want to take it to the next step But you're right like for me the aesthetic part is really what gets me in trouble because I start to get you know Depressed or I don't really like the way that I look again And but but the aesthetic part is it's it's what I focus on, but it's not what motivates me I don't know if that makes sense or not.

It's good. I know what I what we currently do is we do a push-pull legs Method at the gym so we'll have a push day a pull day and then a leg day and then the you know the fourth day is some kind of Some kind of fill-in whether it's just a deadlift day, or you know something like that But I've liked what I heard recently and with the upper lower Yeah, break down that you guys do so just wondering if you guys would mix up what I'm doing strength training wise I wouldn't I would love to give that to you I think I think if you haven't followed one of our programs This also could be a really nice thing for you We all tend to do this when we create our own programs including us okay with all of our experience Is you kind of getting this lull of doing the same kind of things all the time and one of the best things to kind?

of spark change and and strength and and progress is just Simply following a routine that you didn't write or didn't create and so I think the upper lower split would be great for you yeah, or I mean because you brought up vo2 max as your goal like either a performance or strong has like a Conditioning element to it which again maybe programming it in there would help mentally You'd be able to tackle you know some of that conditioning and kind of get into it But but really just shaking it up and doing something completely different a lot of times Will help the psyche I love that Justin if if if what I said doesn't resonate with you where you're like I'm not gonna go get on that thing 12 minutes after my workouts And I don't want to play pickleball, but I'll follow a program that I would lean towards Justin but if what I said about Just you know make it a habit a couple times out of the week to do the 12 minutes to hit afterwards And then what Sal said you know pick a day up with the kids of doing physical activity or play pickleball once if that Resonates with you, then I think you could do an upper lower split with that paired with it would do really well If you know yourself, and you're like I'm probably not gonna do that shit Then I would take Justin's advice and just follow like a performance because it's built into that yep Yeah, yeah, okay.

Well man guys again. I really appreciate you having me on the show. I love listening to you It's it's been it's been really good for me Especially over the last year to kind of get back moving in the right direction So a lot of your messages love you share and just love love love everything about it So thank you for helping me be a part of it Dave Let us let us send you one of those programs of the two what upper lower or performance which one resonates more with what?

You're where you want to go Well, I think based off of what you were talking about I think that throwing in a weekly day of pickleball and or jumping on that Stairmaster elliptical for 10 to 15 minutes after a workout. I think I can do that Cool, so let's we'll send you up. We'll send you up or lower than upper. Yeah, we'll send you up or lower And then uh go kiss that wife for sticking by you that whole time Yeah, she just got me a whoop too for my birthday So that's where this whole vo2 max is coming to play cuz now I get to see every day with Tracking and need to make some changes nice.

All right, bro. Thanks. Thanks Dave Hey, thanks guys. Take care. You got it Rick You know, I I think if more if more people Just went to have fun Played you really wouldn't have to worry so much about yeah in the sustainability and that is so much higher You just you're there to see your friends are hanging out You're having a good time and before you know, we did for an hour. You don't even realize with the work you put it That's right. That's right. Our next caller is Alyssa from Michigan.

Hey, welcome back I'm good Give us an update what's happening? Okay, so previously you guys told me to focus strictly on strength since then I've been following maps 15 power lift and have improved I want to preface that I was in Italy for about a month. So my training and eating were basically just pasta and no training Which is even more impressive that we saw again. This is great. I know As of July 19th, my one rep maxes are for bench 160 deadlift 225 and squat 205 Nice.

Um, I'm confident. I was in a bit of a surplus during that time and my body probably needed the rest So I guess it kind of makes sense. I don't know. Yeah but I'm extremely excited to keep following this program as I did and This past week. I redid these one rep maxes and currently for bench They're 165 deadlift 225 and squat Deadlift 255 and squat 225. I'm eating about 25 to 3,000 calories 2,500 thousand sorry a day and maintaining 10,000 steps a day I do still run a little bit but it's down to like below 10 miles a week You and when I first started it was like 25 miles a week.

So I'm so happy you guys changed my life Feel better don't wait by the way To see increases in all three main lifts is amazing. Typically, I'm like when I'm training somebody I'm like we trying to focus on just one of those lifts going up to see across the board is awesome Yeah, and it says there you feel amazing. You feel a lot better, huh? I do Yeah, I like being able to eat food and not thinking about it constantly because that's kind of how I was in the beginning I also started pursuing a little bit of personal training on the side I'm halfway through up the ISSA program.

I don't know. I I feel like I got the bug like I Great so far read about it and that's exciting. You've changed my life. Listen, what's your main job? What do you do for what it was your main? How do you get your how do you pay your bills? Well, I'm 21. So I don't really pay bills, but I'm studying construction management. I'm gonna graduate in December and I'm currently an intern at a construction company as a project engineer Okay, good part-time. So but you don't want to my hours, but you like fitness Yeah, I do.

All right. Listen, keep keep us in mind. Yeah, we love hiring new trainers and I know I was looking at your Website and I was kind of like, oh I could film a video of myself Stay the course, I think you're on the perfect routine. I think the mass 15 style workouts are great Keep doing it. I think in combination with a little bit of running you're doing diet and everything. I think you're doing Phenomenal and then keep studying and if you love fitness and you want to be a trainer This is one of the best places to work and if you need them if you're a huge fan of the show and you know our culture Those are the kind of people we like to hire.

Have you been have you found the trainer podcast we have? Well, I've been doing it So with our trainers? No, but I know it's called Elite Training, right? Yeah, Elite Trainer Podcast on YouTube, and you'll hear our coaches talking all about personal training. So if you're into it and you're liking it, you'll like that content too. So listen, check that out. And then, yeah. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna dive into that. Yeah, yeah, awesome. I love it. It's been amazing. Awesome. I'm excited for you. Yeah, so which Mass 15 do we give you to do?

Was it Mass 15 Power Lift, do you remember? It was Power Lift. All right. Yeah. You're almost done with it, aren't you? Yeah. All right, I'll send you another one. Let's go 15 Muscle Mommy. Ooh, yeah. Thank you so much. You got another 15 to follow. You got it. And then you just keep in touch with us, okay? I will. Hey, you never know. Exactly. Oh, I hope I catch a video from you soon. I do too. All right. All right, Alyssa. Thank you for everything.

My dad says hi, by the way. Oh, okay, awesome. That's why I said hi. Yeah, yeah, awesome. But thank you. Great job. It's been a great day. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you, Alyssa. Thank you. Great news. Yeah. She was running a lot. She was doing a lot of training. She was walking a lot, and her calories are low. Yeah. And she was worried about hormones. If I recall, maybe I'm wrong, but if I recall, she had issues with being regular with her period, maybe?

I don't remember if that was. I don't know if that was part of her story. But there was, she was like, what's going on? Why do I feel this way? And it was just, she was just over- I mean, 90-day check-in, 30 days of that was traveling, not working out, and eating. So it's really 60 days. So 60 days of just following Master 15. And by the way, too, already a very strong person. So consistently lifting, already strong. See an increase across all three major lifts.

Huge, huge win. Our next caller is Amber from Michigan. Hi, Amber. Hello. Hi, guys. How you doing? Good. How can we help you? Oh my gosh, this is crazy. I've been listening to you guys for like nine years, so. Wow. Oh, man. You guys have been through a lot with me. Thank you. Jeez. That's awesome. We made it. Yeah. So basically, I'm just feeling really frustrated because I have been working out for so long. I started getting your guys' programs probably about seven years ago. So I just don't feel like I look like all the effort that I put in.

For some context, I, right now, I own a cleaning business for six years now. So I clean two to three houses a day. With it being summer here in Michigan, I'm playing beach volleyball three to four times a week. And I have a hard time even keeping up with like maps 15. So I go back and forth on like, am I doing too much? Am I not doing enough? Am I eating too much? Or am I not eating enough? And I put in all this effort, but feel like I don't look like I should with all the effort I put in.

All right, good question. So I'm gonna read through some of the stuff in your email, if that's okay? Yeah, sure. Okay, so you mentioned you're cleaning to two to three houses a day, plus playing beach volleyball three to four days a week. I'm assuming you're out there for a couple hours when you do that? Yeah. Okay, and you got two teenage daughters? Oh, yeah. And it says your life is very full and demanding. And now it says on the top. Running a business. And I wanna correct, I don't know if this is accurate, if we got the right email.

It says you're 47? 37. 37, I was gonna say, I'm like, you don't look 47. Holy cow. Well, I hope not. So first off, you do look like you work out, but you're doing a lot, remember? You're doing a lot. So cleaning houses is, if you took, let me ask you a question. If you took one of your friends that works an office job to work with you for one day. Oh, they'd die. How do you feel? Yeah, they'd be dead. What you're doing is akin to a workout.

That's your job. Then you're playing volleyball three to four days a week. That's intense. So you're redlining. And I haven't even asked you about your sleep, which, actually, let me ask you that. How is your sleep? How consistent is it? How many hours a night are you getting? It's typically pretty good, seven or eight hours. Okay. Also, I wanna take a guess at diet stuff, because this is just taking a shot in the dark. This is what happens sometimes when somebody's got a lot like this and they feel like they do put a lot of work and effort in, is they are eating really clean or really low-calorie, and then they have these off-the-rails, and then they're really clean, really off-the-rails, and inconsistencies with the diet.

How would you rate your diet? Actually, I don't go off-the-rails, really, because I enjoy eating healthy and eating clean, just because I like to feel good. And being with my work, I can't go to work feeling like shit. So I really take pride in eating healthy, and I enjoy eating healthy. So the rule 80-20, mine's more like 90-10. It's not super strict. If I want something, I'll take a couple bites, but that's really all I need is a couple bites and I'm good. So I don't really go off-the-rails.

Okay, good. That's good, that's really good. How about tracking protein? Are you aware of what you're consuming? So tracking's not really good for me. I actually had eating disorders for 15 years, and you guys helped me get through that, so thank you. But I did try to track, and I know that I get plenty of protein. Like, I can literally snack on chicken breast, so it's not an issue. But tracking's just not good for me. Would you say you, because of your past, you have a tendency then to maybe eat on the lower-calorie side, or would you think you eat a good amount of calories?

I don't restrict myself. I eat when I'm hungry, so it's just hard to know if it's enough or too much. Okay, but you're eating high-protein, you're not restricting, you're getting decent sleep. You're just really active. You're really, really active. I might have to just, yeah, bring it down a little more. Yeah, so, and it sounds like your beach volleyball with your friends is something you really enjoy doing. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't wanna cut that down. Your work, we're not gonna cut down, because that's your job.

Yeah. Even MAPS 15 is a lot of volume when you add it to all that stuff. Yeah, spread it out. On a consistent basis, it can be a lot. I recently, a couple weeks ago, switched to anabolic, so I finished 15. And I'm not doing the trigger sessions, because I just usually don't have the energy to do it. I'm dead, and I'm fitting in one full body a day, which is the one day off I get a week, because in summer, it's crazy. Even Saturdays, I'm working right now, because I have Airbnbs and stuff, but.

Okay, and so you're doing one full body workout a week. Yeah. How's that feel? It's been okay so far. I just, oh gosh. That's probably what we put you on. I know, that's what we put you on, the prescription right there. There's two options I would recommend. Either one full body workout a week, one exercise per body part, three sets each. Yeah. Or MAPS 15, two or three days a week, that's it. So MAPS 15, but like two days a week, or three days a week.

And that's it. Yeah. And base it off of how you feel. You don't need a ton of strength training. No. You really don't. Yeah. Especially when you're doing so much activity. Just for muscle preservation, yeah. Amber, can you recall for me what yesterday's full day of eating was? Like just run me through breakfast, lunch, dinner, or what you ate? Sure, I would love to. So for breakfast, I'm usually eating Dave's Killer Bread, two slices, three eggs, and two sausage links. And then being on the go for work, I'm usually eating a banana RX bar, a pack of nuts.

And then I'll get home around two or three, eat a meal, which is usually like a chicken, vegetable, and maybe some quinoa. Then I have dinner, which is also some kind of form of chicken and carb and veggie. And then when I get home from volleyball, which is usually like nine or 10 o'clock at night, I'm eating like a yogurt cup with some stuff in it. Okay, you guys feeling that out? Yeah, I'm just doing it in my head real quick. And it's not, I thought it would be lower, it's not bad.

No. Yeah, see, that's where I'm struggling. Like I feel like it's a decent amount, but. Yeah, you're just, honey, you're just, you're literally redlining. You're redlining. Yeah. So let me put it this way. Three to four days a week for just a mom who works a desk job of beach volleyball, because that's very active. You're playing with friends, a competitive family. That's a lot by itself. Yeah. Now you add on top of that, your job, which is, you're doing a ton. So you can't add that much strength training to your routine.

Literally, it would be MAPS 15, maybe two a week. Or like I said, one full body workout, one exercise per body part, where you're doing kind of compound lifts, and that's it. Those are kind of your two options. If you already have MAPS 15, the way I would do it, is because you got it laid out in front of you, is you would do two workouts. So you'd follow the two in a row. Then the following week, you'd move to the next two. And that's it.

Wow. If you start to see strength gains, and you feel good, we're moving in the right direction. Okay. That's your gauge. Do you think anabolic one day a week is okay? Maybe phase one, and maybe phase two, phase three would probably be too much. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but I think you should try 15, two workouts a week. And I think if you did that, you'll probably notice more energy and strength. Okay. Yeah. Again, let me just paint the context. You took a friend of yours who works a desk job, who's the same age as you, and they followed you around and did your job for one day.

They would be dead and sore after one day of work. Yeah. Not including the kids. Not including the kids and the volleyball either. And my own house and all that. That's right. So you're just doing a lot. Just factor it all in. I know. You're just doing a lot, a lot, hun. And I think adding strength training is just, you're just overflowing with the amount of stress you're putting on your body. So a little bit of strength training is gonna go a long way for you.

Yeah. Do you know what? Let your body recover. I'm curious, have you ever used it? I'm just curious on your like total steps. You probably do a ton of steps in a day. Oh, probably, but I don't have a way to track them, but. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably a good 20. Yeah. That would be my guess, would be like 20,000. Especially on volleyball days. Amber, I've trained people with similar, like activity levels, typically blue collar workers. Yeah. And the amount of volume that got them results was so shockingly low.

Yeah. And I had to keep scaling back. I remember when I first became a trainer and I would get these clients and I'd scale back, scale back, scale back, scale back. And it was very minimal before they started to see any progress. And it was just because they were just moving all the time. Yeah. And they were so used to moving all the time that to them they're like, oh, I've just. It's their normal, yeah. This is just what I do. Uh-huh. I had to scale it way down.

So I. Yeah, it's also my mental therapy going, you know, working out too. So. Yeah. I get it. I literally, well, you do a lot of activity already. Yeah. I don't think you need more. No. I know. You might need, I'm gonna, you know, forgive me for saying this. You might need some time to not do anything and kind of sit quietly. Yeah, get a massage or something. Which you probably don't ever do. Yeah, I don't got time for that. Let's try MAPS 15, do two workouts a week.

By week two or three, you'll probably see some strength gains. Okay. Okay. All right. You wanna try it? I would love to try it. All right, let's do it. You wanna get back on in 60 days so we can talk to you and see what happens? Oh, I would love that. All right, yeah. We'll get you back on. Let's do a follow-up. Yeah. All right, cool. You got it. And great. Thanks guys. And congratulations on the success of your business. Yes. It sounds like you're doing well.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. Bye. Bye. Yeah, and just for people listening, if the average person who works out two or three days a week went to play beach volleyball for two hours. Cleaning those houses and playing beach volleyball. Three to four days a week. So this becomes exponentially tricky too because of a past eating disorder and what that could trigger to have her tracking wing or doing those things. Exactly. But I'm, she rattled that off fast. So I was trying to do the math really quick in my head.

I was like, okay, but I'm guesstimating in the low 2000s. So it's not bad. But with her activity. That's why I'm asking. 20,000 steps, okay. That house, working out, volleyball, two kids. That is a lot. And even more so in the context of moderate to low calories. Someone like that at her, she's still young. Someone that could be eating 3000 plus calories, easy. And I know that wasn't 3000 plus calories. So, you know, this is either one. Well, both is probably what needs to happen. We probably need to see a reduction of volume training and have a slight bump in calories.

Hard to say, guarantee that without getting a little bit more granular with the diet. But based on what she says, it doesn't sound like egregious to the average person, but she is not the average person. 20,000 steps or more a day is a lot of activity. And the physical demanding activity. Cleaning a house. I washed two cars this weekend. And I was like, my low back was sore for like two days. I'm like, come on. And that's, she's doing that every day. Yeah, every day. That kind of bending over, reaching.

Yeah, it's just, it's taxing. Even on somebody who considers themselves fit and strong. And so I think she's under eating. Under eating and overtraining. Yeah, and overtraining. And so I think a little bit of both would be ideal. Yeah, probably right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

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