Anthropic's Fable Backlash, Nationalizing AI, Inflation Heats Up & California’s Broken Elections

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Everybody's here for a big big week, lots of debates, and we big big week, lots of debates, and we big big week, lots of debates, and we got to start with Anthropic. got to start with Anthropic. got to start with Anthropic. Anthropic released a mythos level model Anthropic released a mythos level model Anthropic released a mythos level model with some interesting guardrails and uh with some interesting guardrails and uh with some interesting guardrails and uh seems as though Daario is back to seems as though Daario is back to seems as though Daario is back to blogging. Okay, the model's called Fable blogging. Okay, the model's called Fable blogging. Okay, the model's called Fable 5. No idea why they're calling it that 5. No idea why they're calling it that 5. No idea why they're calling it that or released on Tuesday and it tops every or released on Tuesday and it tops every or released on Tuesday and it tops every benchmark nearly every benchmark. The benchmark nearly every benchmark. The benchmark nearly every benchmark. The tokens, however, cost twice as much as tokens, however, cost twice as much as tokens, however, cost twice as much as Opus 4.8, but it should use less tokens Opus 4.8, but it should use less tokens Opus 4.8, but it should use less tokens overall because it's theoretically that overall because it's theoretically that overall because it's theoretically that much better. Unclear if this is going to much better. Unclear if this is going to much better. Unclear if this is going to alleviate some of the hand ringing alleviate some of the hand ringing alleviate some of the hand ringing around the cost of tokens, but you around the cost of tokens, but you around the cost of tokens, but you remember in April Anthropic remember in April Anthropic remember in April Anthropic famously did not release Mythos because famously did not release Mythos because famously did not release Mythos because publicly uh it had some strong hacking publicly uh it had some strong hacking publicly uh it had some strong hacking capabilities. So they gave it to some capabilities. So they gave it to some capabilities. So they gave it to some folks and we had um the CEO of Nesh of folks and we had um the CEO of Nesh of folks and we had um the CEO of Nesh of Palo Alto Networks who said, "Hey, Palo Alto Networks who said, "Hey, Palo Alto Networks who said, "Hey, Mythos was the real deal." and that they Mythos was the real deal." and that they Mythos was the real deal." and that they used it to seal up some vulnerabilities used it to seal up some vulnerabilities used it to seal up some vulnerabilities inside their shop. Obviously, this new inside their shop. Obviously, this new inside their shop. Obviously, this new model is sensitive uh to topics like model is sensitive uh to topics like model is sensitive uh to topics like boweapons, hacking, all that stuff are boweapons, hacking, all that stuff are boweapons, hacking, all that stuff are blocked in it. But they got a big blocked in it. But they got a big blocked in it. But they got a big developer backlash and then I'll get developer backlash and then I'll get developer backlash and then I'll get your feedback after I explain this. your feedback after I explain this. your feedback after I explain this. While using Fable, Anthropic stores all While using Fable, Anthropic stores all While using Fable, Anthropic stores all the prompt data you enter for at least the prompt data you enter for at least the prompt data you enter for at least 30 days. And so that's a bit of a 30 days. And so that's a bit of a 30 days. And so that's a bit of a privacy issue. And if Fable 5 detects privacy issue. And if Fable 5 detects privacy issue. And if Fable 5 detects you're doing frontier AI research, in you're doing frontier AI research, in you're doing frontier AI research, in other words, using their model to make a other words, using their model to make a other words, using their model to make a better model, competitive model, they better model, competitive model, they better model, competitive model, they were downgrading you, but they weren't were downgrading you, but they weren't were downgrading you, but they weren't telling you. And this was buried deep in telling you. And this was buried deep in telling you. And this was buried deep in a 319 page document. So many kuruffles, a 319 page document. So many kuruffles, a 319 page document. So many kuruffles, freakouts going on on X over this, but freakouts going on on X over this, but freakouts going on on X over this, but they've since walked it back a bit, they've since walked it back a bit, they've since walked it back a bit, quote unquote, in Wired. We're changing quote unquote, in Wired. We're changing quote unquote, in Wired. We're changing Fable 5 safeguards for Frontier LLM Fable 5 safeguards for Frontier LLM Fable 5 safeguards for Frontier LLM development to make them more visible. development to make them more visible. development to make them more visible. I'm going to stop there. Chimath, what's I'm going to stop there. Chimath, what's I'm going to stop there. Chimath, what's your take on anthropic and these your take on anthropic and these your take on anthropic and these extraordinary models? They keep dropping extraordinary models? They keep dropping extraordinary models? They keep dropping and how they're handling the release of and how they're handling the release of and how they're handling the release of them. Are they being thoughtful? Are them. Are they being thoughtful? Are them. Are they being thoughtful? Are they being dramatic and drama queens? A they being dramatic and drama queens? A they being dramatic and drama queens? A little bit of both. Where do you stand little bit of both. Where do you stand little bit of both. Where do you stand on it? You know, after getting Nesh's on it? You know, after getting Nesh's on it? You know, after getting Nesh's feedback and seeing the latest model feedback and seeing the latest model feedback and seeing the latest model come out, have you played with it? come out, have you played with it? come out, have you played with it? What's going on at 8090 and the software What's going on at 8090 and the software What's going on at 8090 and the software factory in terms of benchmarking it as factory in terms of benchmarking it as factory in terms of benchmarking it as well? It's a really incredible model and well? It's a really incredible model and well? It's a really incredible model and so kudos to these guys for continuing to so kudos to these guys for continuing to so kudos to these guys for continuing to push the boundaries of the closed push the boundaries of the closed push the boundaries of the closed frontier lab models. They're firing on frontier lab models. They're firing on frontier lab models. They're firing on all cylinders. I think that it creates a all cylinders. I think that it creates a all cylinders. I think that it creates a pretty obvious risk now and I think that pretty obvious risk now and I think that pretty obvious risk now and I think that obvious risk is twofold. One is obvious risk is twofold. One is obvious risk is twofold. One is Anthropic has essentially shown their Anthropic has essentially shown their Anthropic has essentially shown their hand which is that they will hand which is that they will hand which is that they will increasingly increasingly increasingly take in prompts, evaluate the prompts take in prompts, evaluate the prompts take in prompts, evaluate the prompts and decide what to do with them before and decide what to do with them before and decide what to do with them before they generate output to you. they generate output to you. they generate output to you. >> And I think if you were a person, >> And I think if you were a person, >> And I think if you were a person, you should generally now think there's a you should generally now think there's a you should generally now think there's a risk of censorship. risk of censorship. risk of censorship. If you're a company, I think it's almost If you're a company, I think it's almost If you're a company, I think it's almost a non-starter. a non-starter. a non-starter. And the reason is because you could And the reason is because you could And the reason is because you could accidentally trip one of these things accidentally trip one of these things accidentally trip one of these things without even knowing it. A downstream without even knowing it. A downstream without even knowing it. A downstream scientist using the cloud APIs could scientist using the cloud APIs could scientist using the cloud APIs could trip it. A business executive inside trip it. A business executive inside trip it. A business executive inside your corporation could trip it. A person your corporation could trip it. A person your corporation could trip it. A person doing scientific molecular research doing scientific molecular research doing scientific molecular research could trip it. And all of a sudden, could trip it. And all of a sudden, could trip it. And all of a sudden, you'll get cut off from a very important you'll get cut off from a very important you'll get cut off from a very important source of business differentiation for source of business differentiation for source of business differentiation for yourself. So I think if you take both of yourself. So I think if you take both of yourself. So I think if you take both of those two things together, we're at this those two things together, we're at this those two things together, we're at this very unique moment in time where I think very unique moment in time where I think very unique moment in time where I think companies need to start underwriting companies need to start underwriting companies need to start underwriting this next phase of AI, which is how do I this next phase of AI, which is how do I this next phase of AI, which is how do I have control? have control? have control? Who am I allowing to learn off of all of Who am I allowing to learn off of all of Who am I allowing to learn off of all of this information? this information? this information? Do I want to have single point of Do I want to have single point of Do I want to have single point of failure risk with respect to AI? And I failure risk with respect to AI? And I failure risk with respect to AI? And I think the answer is that you need broad think the answer is that you need broad think the answer is that you need broad diversity and a governance approach diversity and a governance approach diversity and a governance approach that's better managed. [clears throat] that's better managed. [clears throat] that's better managed. [clears throat] >> One thing I'll say about anthropic is >> One thing I'll say about anthropic is >> One thing I'll say about anthropic is they tell the truth. they tell the truth. they tell the truth. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> It's just that the truth sucks when you >> It's just that the truth sucks when you >> It's just that the truth sucks when you actually take it and you eat it and actually take it and you eat it and actually take it and you eat it and you're like it's in your tummy and you're like it's in your tummy and you're like it's in your tummy and you're like no this is not good. I don't you're like no this is not good. I don't you're like no this is not good. I don't like this. And so there's the censorship like this. And so there's the censorship like this. And so there's the censorship risk on the one hand and then there's risk on the one hand and then there's risk on the one hand and then there's just the governance business risk for just the governance business risk for just the governance business risk for enterprises on the other. Both are not enterprises on the other. Both are not enterprises on the other. Both are not good. good. good. >> Freeberg running your own company now. >> Freeberg running your own company now. >> Freeberg running your own company now. Uh, and I'll let you back clean up here. Uh, and I'll let you back clean up here. Uh, and I'll let you back clean up here. Saxs, obviously you'll have a lot to Saxs, obviously you'll have a lot to Saxs, obviously you'll have a lot to say, but Freeberg, running your company, say, but Freeberg, running your company, say, but Freeberg, running your company, do you worry about getting rugpulled by do you worry about getting rugpulled by do you worry about getting rugpulled by one of these companies, investing your one of these companies, investing your one of these companies, investing your time into one of these platforms, having time into one of these platforms, having time into one of these platforms, having them then constrain your use of it and them then constrain your use of it and them then constrain your use of it and or take what you're doing at Ohio, put or take what you're doing at Ohio, put or take what you're doing at Ohio, put it into their model and make it it into their model and make it it into their model and make it available to other people. What What available to other people. What What available to other people. What What concerns do you have as a business owner concerns do you have as a business owner concerns do you have as a business owner at the forefront of your field using at the forefront of your field using at the forefront of your field using these tools? these tools? these tools? >> It's a great question. the the terms of >> It's a great question. the the terms of >> It's a great question. the the terms of service is pretty clear that they can't service is pretty clear that they can't service is pretty clear that they can't take what you're doing and put it into take what you're doing and put it into take what you're doing and put it into their model that they won't their model that they won't their model that they won't >> do you believe them when you read that I >> do you believe them when you read that I >> do you believe them when you read that I >> I'm not sure to be honest there are >> I'm not sure to be honest there are >> I'm not sure to be honest there are things I'm concerned about but we've things I'm concerned about but we've things I'm concerned about but we've decided to throw caution to the wind decided to throw caution to the wind decided to throw caution to the wind because we do a lot of proprietary work because we do a lot of proprietary work because we do a lot of proprietary work in genomics what that means is we're in genomics what that means is we're in genomics what that means is we're looking at different genes or gene looking at different genes or gene looking at different genes or gene variants trying to estimate the impact variants trying to estimate the impact variants trying to estimate the impact that that gene or gene variant might that that gene or gene variant might that that gene or gene variant might have on a living organism like we work have on a living organism like we work have on a living organism like we work in plants obviously in agriculture in plants obviously in agriculture in plants obviously in agriculture And we will do things like RNA guide And we will do things like RNA guide And we will do things like RNA guide design for gene editing based tools. We design for gene editing based tools. We design for gene editing based tools. We will do predictions on what gene may or will do predictions on what gene may or will do predictions on what gene may or may not have some phenotype. So there's may not have some phenotype. So there's may not have some phenotype. So there's a lot of genomic modeling work that we a lot of genomic modeling work that we a lot of genomic modeling work that we have found these models to be incredibly have found these models to be incredibly have found these models to be incredibly valuable at supporting us with over the valuable at supporting us with over the valuable at supporting us with over the last couple of years. So going back last couple of years. So going back last couple of years. So going back about 6 months, we were able to very about 6 months, we were able to very about 6 months, we were able to very simply and cleanly do things like design simply and cleanly do things like design simply and cleanly do things like design a genetic construct that you would then a genetic construct that you would then a genetic construct that you would then use to make a specific protein and the use to make a specific protein and the use to make a specific protein and the the tools was very easy to use to do the tools was very easy to use to do the tools was very easy to use to do that sort of research and extremely that sort of research and extremely that sort of research and extremely valuable. This is the kind of work that valuable. This is the kind of work that valuable. This is the kind of work that many scientists would spend a lot of many scientists would spend a lot of many scientists would spend a lot of time doing and these models were very time doing and these models were very time doing and these models were very good at doing very quickly. Over the good at doing very quickly. Over the good at doing very quickly. Over the last couple of weeks, they've begun to last couple of weeks, they've begun to last couple of weeks, they've begun to restrict the ability to use the models restrict the ability to use the models restrict the ability to use the models to do that work. And the premise is that to do that work. And the premise is that to do that work. And the premise is that there's some sort of bioweapon there's some sort of bioweapon there's some sort of bioweapon uh type risk that folks have theorized uh type risk that folks have theorized uh type risk that folks have theorized could happen using these tools. And as a could happen using these tools. And as a could happen using these tools. And as a result, we're losing the capacity to use result, we're losing the capacity to use result, we're losing the capacity to use these models for this very important these models for this very important these models for this very important scientific development work. As a scientific development work. As a scientific development work. As a result, we are likely going to end up result, we are likely going to end up result, we are likely going to end up needing to use open- source models and needing to use open- source models and needing to use open- source models and run them locally ourselves. So the run them locally ourselves. So the run them locally ourselves. So the reason I walk through all of that is so reason I walk through all of that is so reason I walk through all of that is so people can really understand the context people can really understand the context people can really understand the context of what's going to happen here. As folks of what's going to happen here. As folks of what's going to happen here. As folks like Anthropic say, "Hey, we're going to like Anthropic say, "Hey, we're going to like Anthropic say, "Hey, we're going to restrict access or censor the output of restrict access or censor the output of restrict access or censor the output of these models." It is going to force these models." It is going to force these models." It is going to force companies like ourselves who still want companies like ourselves who still want companies like ourselves who still want to take advantage of the capability of to take advantage of the capability of to take advantage of the capability of these LLMs to go and get open- source these LLMs to go and get open- source these LLMs to go and get open- source tools and run them. And what are the tools and run them. And what are the tools and run them. And what are the best open source models today? They're best open source models today? They're best open source models today? They're Chinese. Chinese. Chinese. >> Yeah, they are. >> Yeah, they are. >> Yeah, they are. >> And that is a major concern. the the >> And that is a major concern. the the >> And that is a major concern. the the American open source models are not as American open source models are not as American open source models are not as good as the Chinese open source models. good as the Chinese open source models. good as the Chinese open source models. So the restrictions that Anthropic and So the restrictions that Anthropic and So the restrictions that Anthropic and others are putting upon themselves and others are putting upon themselves and others are putting upon themselves and upon the industry is forcing a lot of upon the industry is forcing a lot of upon the industry is forcing a lot of companies to go and get open source companies to go and get open source companies to go and get open source Chinese models and run them. We're Chinese models and run them. We're Chinese models and run them. We're seeing this across the landscape with seeing this across the landscape with seeing this across the landscape with startups with large scale enterprises. startups with large scale enterprises. startups with large scale enterprises. Everyone's making that move. Everyone's making that move. Everyone's making that move. >> Yeah. And this is something we've been >> Yeah. And this is something we've been >> Yeah. And this is something we've been talking about here with Apple and their talking about here with Apple and their talking about here with Apple and their silicon and how well you can run these silicon and how well you can run these silicon and how well you can run these models. Also, I predict your next card models. Also, I predict your next card models. Also, I predict your next card you'll turn over is you'll start making you'll turn over is you'll start making you'll turn over is you'll start making your own models, Freeberg. You'll take your own models, Freeberg. You'll take your own models, Freeberg. You'll take all this data you have. all this data you have. all this data you have. >> It's exactly right. And we'll we'll >> It's exactly right. And we'll we'll >> It's exactly right. And we'll we'll start we'll start with the core model, start we'll start with the core model, start we'll start with the core model, combine it with our data, and then we'll combine it with our data, and then we'll combine it with our data, and then we'll have our own genome language model, our have our own genome language model, our have our own genome language model, our own prediction model that we'll then use own prediction model that we'll then use own prediction model that we'll then use internally. And I think that's where internally. And I think that's where internally. And I think that's where folks are going. But the reason I point folks are going. But the reason I point folks are going. But the reason I point this out is because a lot of folks are this out is because a lot of folks are this out is because a lot of folks are feeling the pressure from anthropic feeling the pressure from anthropic feeling the pressure from anthropic doing this. and they're feeling the doing this. and they're feeling the doing this. and they're feeling the pressure from politicians repeating the pressure from politicians repeating the pressure from politicians repeating the scary words that are being said by scary words that are being said by scary words that are being said by Daario and others. And as a result, they Daario and others. And as a result, they Daario and others. And as a result, they are going to try and they are already are going to try and they are already are going to try and they are already trying to force either natural trying to force either natural trying to force either natural enforcement or politicized enforcement enforcement or politicized enforcement enforcement or politicized enforcement upon the model providers in a way that upon the model providers in a way that upon the model providers in a way that is ultimately going to benefit Chinese is ultimately going to benefit Chinese is ultimately going to benefit Chinese open source model providers. And that is open source model providers. And that is open source model providers. And that is a scary thing because we are going to a scary thing because we are going to a scary thing because we are going to damage our own kind of economic damage our own kind of economic damage our own kind of economic viability. You can't just stop AI. As viability. You can't just stop AI. As viability. You can't just stop AI. As much as everyone says AI is doomsday, by much as everyone says AI is doomsday, by much as everyone says AI is doomsday, by stopping AI or trying to stop AI through stopping AI or trying to stop AI through stopping AI or trying to stop AI through this political action and social, you this political action and social, you this political action and social, you know, kind of behavior, you are know, kind of behavior, you are know, kind of behavior, you are fundamentally going to give someone else fundamentally going to give someone else fundamentally going to give someone else the advantage because the AI isn't going the advantage because the AI isn't going the advantage because the AI isn't going to go away. So the reason I describe to go away. So the reason I describe to go away. So the reason I describe what we're doing is for everyone to what we're doing is for everyone to what we're doing is for everyone to really understand in Grock that you really understand in Grock that you really understand in Grock that you can't just turn off AI and turn off can't just turn off AI and turn off can't just turn off AI and turn off access to these things. What you will do access to these things. What you will do access to these things. What you will do is you will force the hand of someone is you will force the hand of someone is you will force the hand of someone else to now have an unfair advantage else to now have an unfair advantage else to now have an unfair advantage because you're unfairly restricting your because you're unfairly restricting your because you're unfairly restricting your models and your access to those models. models and your access to those models. models and your access to those models. Well, well, really well said, Freeberg Well, well, really well said, Freeberg Well, well, really well said, Freeberg Saxs. What's your take just in terms of Saxs. What's your take just in terms of Saxs. What's your take just in terms of the chessboard in terms of we got the the chessboard in terms of we got the the chessboard in terms of we got the business case here, we got the local business case here, we got the local business case here, we got the local case, but there's a lot of issues here case, but there's a lot of issues here case, but there's a lot of issues here with Anthropic in terms of them with Anthropic in terms of them with Anthropic in terms of them essentially throwing up every red flag essentially throwing up every red flag essentially throwing up every red flag to get regulated to induce and it'll be to get regulated to induce and it'll be to get regulated to induce and it'll be our second story, the Bernie Sanders our second story, the Bernie Sanders our second story, the Bernie Sanders seizing the equity of these companies. seizing the equity of these companies. seizing the equity of these companies. But man, th this is saying, "Look over But man, th this is saying, "Look over But man, th this is saying, "Look over here. We're starting a fire. Regulate here. We're starting a fire. Regulate here. We're starting a fire. Regulate the hell out of us." Which also then the hell out of us." Which also then the hell out of us." Which also then makes you wonder, hey, maybe I should be makes you wonder, hey, maybe I should be makes you wonder, hey, maybe I should be doing my own model. Maybe I should be doing my own model. Maybe I should be doing my own model. Maybe I should be embracing open source models. How's this embracing open source models. How's this embracing open source models. How's this chessboard developing here, Zach? chessboard developing here, Zach? chessboard developing here, Zach? >> Well, look, eight months ago, I said >> Well, look, eight months ago, I said >> Well, look, eight months ago, I said that Enthropic was engaged in a very that Enthropic was engaged in a very that Enthropic was engaged in a very sophisticated regulatory capture sophisticated regulatory capture sophisticated regulatory capture campaign based on fear-mongering. And campaign based on fear-mongering. And campaign based on fear-mongering. And people at the time thought that was a people at the time thought that was a people at the time thought that was a very spicy take. But 8 months later, I very spicy take. But 8 months later, I very spicy take. But 8 months later, I think you're hearing a lot of people say think you're hearing a lot of people say think you're hearing a lot of people say it. In fact, I think it's almost now it. In fact, I think it's almost now it. In fact, I think it's almost now becoming a new consensus. And one of the becoming a new consensus. And one of the becoming a new consensus. And one of the things I think your summary didn't quite things I think your summary didn't quite things I think your summary didn't quite capture, JCAL, y capture, JCAL, y capture, JCAL, y >> is the sense of the violation of trust >> is the sense of the violation of trust >> is the sense of the violation of trust and how much outrage there is in the and how much outrage there is in the and how much outrage there is in the developer community over this latest developer community over this latest developer community over this latest Fable release is not just the fact that Fable release is not just the fact that Fable release is not just the fact that they're doing mandatory surveillance. they're doing mandatory surveillance. they're doing mandatory surveillance. Remember, this is a company that said Remember, this is a company that said Remember, this is a company that said that it was against government that it was against government that it was against government surveillance. They are now retaining for surveillance. They are now retaining for surveillance. They are now retaining for 30 days every prompt and every output 30 days every prompt and every output 30 days every prompt and every output you send to one of these mythos class you send to one of these mythos class you send to one of these mythos class models. There are no exceptions. Even models. There are no exceptions. Even models. There are no exceptions. Even enterprise customers who had signed zero enterprise customers who had signed zero enterprise customers who had signed zero data retention agreements, they do not data retention agreements, they do not data retention agreements, they do not have a choice or I guess they can just have a choice or I guess they can just have a choice or I guess they can just not use the new fable or or mythos class not use the new fable or or mythos class not use the new fable or or mythos class models. But they retain all of your data models. But they retain all of your data models. But they retain all of your data for 30 days. And it's not just the for 30 days. And it's not just the for 30 days. And it's not just the prompts and the output. Remember, it's prompts and the output. Remember, it's prompts and the output. Remember, it's all the context you share with them. So, all the context you share with them. So, all the context you share with them. So, you know, all these uh agent platforms, you know, all these uh agent platforms, you know, all these uh agent platforms, they're basically storing all of your they're basically storing all of your they're basically storing all of your memories, all of your files, all of your memories, all of your files, all of your memories, all of your files, all of your data, and they're passing them to the data, and they're passing them to the data, and they're passing them to the model in these giant context windows to model in these giant context windows to model in these giant context windows to get better responses. Anthropic is get better responses. Anthropic is get better responses. Anthropic is saying it will keep all of that, and it saying it will keep all of that, and it saying it will keep all of that, and it does it to build a profile on you, to does it to build a profile on you, to does it to build a profile on you, to classify you, and then to determine what classify you, and then to determine what classify you, and then to determine what capabilities it then unlocks. And the capabilities it then unlocks. And the capabilities it then unlocks. And the thing that created the most outrage in thing that created the most outrage in thing that created the most outrage in addition to the surveillance is the fact addition to the surveillance is the fact addition to the surveillance is the fact that they would degrade the product. that they would degrade the product. that they would degrade the product. They would degrade what they show you. They would degrade what they show you. They would degrade what they show you. They would nerf their models if it They would nerf their models if it They would nerf their models if it decided in anthropic soul discretion decided in anthropic soul discretion decided in anthropic soul discretion that you are not worthy of having access that you are not worthy of having access that you are not worthy of having access to that level of information. So they're to that level of information. So they're to that level of information. So they're creating a new level of AI halves and creating a new level of AI halves and creating a new level of AI halves and have nots. And what they did is and they have nots. And what they did is and they have nots. And what they did is and they they this is there's a narrow piece here they this is there's a narrow piece here they this is there's a narrow piece here they walk back which is they said that they walk back which is they said that they walk back which is they said that when it came to things like machine when it came to things like machine when it came to things like machine learning AI research chip design learning AI research chip design learning AI research chip design research those types of areas they would research those types of areas they would research those types of areas they would kick you to a lesser model but not tell kick you to a lesser model but not tell kick you to a lesser model but not tell you that and they would even you that and they would even you that and they would even >> which feels anti-competitive right I >> which feels anti-competitive right I >> which feels anti-competitive right I mean mean mean >> it's completely anti-competitive and >> it's completely anti-competitive and >> it's completely anti-competitive and also they would even do things like also they would even do things like also they would even do things like rewrite your prompt in the background so rewrite your prompt in the background so rewrite your prompt in the background so they would give you a nerfed answer they they would give you a nerfed answer they they would give you a nerfed answer they would not tell you what they were doing would not tell you what they were doing would not tell you what they were doing they still charge you for the product they still charge you for the product they still charge you for the product that you thought you were getting and that you thought you were getting and that you thought you were getting and they would never tell you that you were they would never tell you that you were they would never tell you that you were not getting Frontier model capability. not getting Frontier model capability. not getting Frontier model capability. So you they were actually misleading So you they were actually misleading So you they were actually misleading their users and this is what was their users and this is what was their users and this is what was creating so much outrage. Now the narrow creating so much outrage. Now the narrow creating so much outrage. Now the narrow piece they walk back is they are now piece they walk back is they are now piece they walk back is they are now saying that they will disclose when they saying that they will disclose when they saying that they will disclose when they downgrade you but they are still downgrade you but they are still downgrade you but they are still downgrading people when they decide that downgrading people when they decide that downgrading people when they decide that that person should not receive the that person should not receive the that person should not receive the appropriate information. And you saw appropriate information. And you saw appropriate information. And you saw there were a lot of people posting there were a lot of people posting there were a lot of people posting online with examples of the massive online with examples of the massive online with examples of the massive overreach here. So someone showed that overreach here. So someone showed that overreach here. So someone showed that when they simply just asked a question when they simply just asked a question when they simply just asked a question about mitochondria, they were basically about mitochondria, they were basically about mitochondria, they were basically downgraded. downgraded. downgraded. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> When Ben Thompson from Strateery asked a >> When Ben Thompson from Strateery asked a >> When Ben Thompson from Strateery asked a very straightforward question about the very straightforward question about the very straightforward question about the relationship between cancer risk and GLP relationship between cancer risk and GLP relationship between cancer risk and GLP once, he was kicked out. once, he was kicked out. once, he was kicked out. >> So these guys have a very expansive view >> So these guys have a very expansive view >> So these guys have a very expansive view of who should be downgraded. again, of who should be downgraded. again, of who should be downgraded. again, they're going to surveil you to they're going to surveil you to they're going to surveil you to determine whether you should be. And I determine whether you should be. And I determine whether you should be. And I think what we're getting here is a think what we're getting here is a think what we're getting here is a vision of where all of this is headed, vision of where all of this is headed, vision of where all of this is headed, which is that these powerful big tech which is that these powerful big tech which is that these powerful big tech companies are going to decide whether companies are going to decide whether companies are going to decide whether you're worthy. They're going to decide you're worthy. They're going to decide you're worthy. They're going to decide whether you're an AI have or have not, whether you're an AI have or have not, whether you're an AI have or have not, and then they're going to censor the and then they're going to censor the and then they're going to censor the output that you receive based on the output that you receive based on the output that you receive based on the criteria they determine when they criteria they determine when they criteria they determine when they profile you. profile you. profile you. >> That is [clears throat] >> That is [clears throat] >> That is [clears throat] very Orwellian. very Orwellian. very Orwellian. >> I think there's that. And I think that >> I think there's that. And I think that >> I think there's that. And I think that there's the risk of something that's there's the risk of something that's there's the risk of something that's more subtle more subtle more subtle but equally insidious, which is that but equally insidious, which is that but equally insidious, which is that they will start to pick which they will start to pick which they will start to pick which corporations they want to benefit. So corporations they want to benefit. So corporations they want to benefit. So for example, for example, for example, >> if Novartis has a competitive GLP1 drug >> if Novartis has a competitive GLP1 drug >> if Novartis has a competitive GLP1 drug to Lily and they have a strategic deal to Lily and they have a strategic deal to Lily and they have a strategic deal with Novartis and not one with Lily, now with Novartis and not one with Lily, now with Novartis and not one with Lily, now there's an impetus to shape how people there's an impetus to shape how people there's an impetus to shape how people get information. get information. get information. >> Right? if they have a deal with JP >> Right? if they have a deal with JP >> Right? if they have a deal with JP Morgan but not with City Bank, you'll Morgan but not with City Bank, you'll Morgan but not with City Bank, you'll just never know. And so you'll ask a just never know. And so you'll ask a just never know. And so you'll ask a question something about mortgage rates question something about mortgage rates question something about mortgage rates or interest rates and you'll get all or interest rates and you'll get all or interest rates and you'll get all kinds of stuff that you don't kinds of stuff that you don't kinds of stuff that you don't understand. And then the downstream part understand. And then the downstream part understand. And then the downstream part of this which is even more problematic of this which is even more problematic of this which is even more problematic is it's not clear to me that they're is it's not clear to me that they're is it's not clear to me that they're going to capture the actual fingerprint going to capture the actual fingerprint going to capture the actual fingerprint of what they did. So if you believe of what they did. So if you believe of what they did. So if you believe that something was done in a shady way, that something was done in a shady way, that something was done in a shady way, you're supposed to be able to go to them you're supposed to be able to go to them you're supposed to be able to go to them or regulators should be able to go to or regulators should be able to go to or regulators should be able to go to them and say, "Show me the trace of that them and say, "Show me the trace of that them and say, "Show me the trace of that model run in that exact moment that model run in that exact moment that model run in that exact moment that generated that output. Convince me why generated that output. Convince me why generated that output. Convince me why that that wasn't nerfed on purpose or that that wasn't nerfed on purpose or that that wasn't nerfed on purpose or manipulated." manipulated." manipulated." And there's all kinds of ways in which And there's all kinds of ways in which And there's all kinds of ways in which they can hide the cheese on that. So I they can hide the cheese on that. So I they can hide the cheese on that. So I think that all of that body of stuff think that all of that body of stuff think that all of that body of stuff sacks happens now because if you're if sacks happens now because if you're if sacks happens now because if you're if you're an emergent company you're an emergent company you're an emergent company what you should be doing is knocking on what you should be doing is knocking on what you should be doing is knocking on anthropic door saying let's do a deal anthropic door saying let's do a deal anthropic door saying let's do a deal I'll give you half the equity and why I'll give you half the equity and why I'll give you half the equity and why don't you just direct people to me and don't you just direct people to me and don't you just direct people to me and they'll say well economics are not what they'll say well economics are not what they'll say well economics are not what I care about what is your philosophy on I care about what is your philosophy on I care about what is your philosophy on life on morality on all of these social life on morality on all of these social life on morality on all of these social issues and one company will say it's a issues and one company will say it's a issues and one company will say it's a another company will say it's B, they'll another company will say it's B, they'll another company will say it's B, they'll favor A over B and then all kinds of favor A over B and then all kinds of favor A over B and then all kinds of stuff can happen underneath the hood. stuff can happen underneath the hood. stuff can happen underneath the hood. That's what's scary. Let me just ask my That's what's scary. Let me just ask my That's what's scary. Let me just ask my free market view. Like, should that free market view. Like, should that free market view. Like, should that matter? If there's a bunch of models out matter? If there's a bunch of models out matter? If there's a bunch of models out there and we don't restrict them and we there and we don't restrict them and we there and we don't restrict them and we don't regulate them, let these markets don't regulate them, let these markets don't regulate them, let these markets compete. We had paid inclusion in the compete. We had paid inclusion in the compete. We had paid inclusion in the early days of search engines and the early days of search engines and the early days of search engines and the companies had to pay to be in there and companies had to pay to be in there and companies had to pay to be in there and there all those sorts of deals you're there all those sorts of deals you're there all those sorts of deals you're describing, Chimamoth. And all the describing, Chimamoth. And all the describing, Chimamoth. And all the search engines that did those sorts of search engines that did those sorts of search engines that did those sorts of deals, they sucked for consumers and deals, they sucked for consumers and deals, they sucked for consumers and customers. So everyone was like, you customers. So everyone was like, you customers. So everyone was like, you know what, this isn't as good as Google know what, this isn't as good as Google know what, this isn't as good as Google and everyone went over to the better and everyone went over to the better and everyone went over to the better model and the better provider. Isn't model and the better provider. Isn't model and the better provider. Isn't that what's going to happen here if we that what's going to happen here if we that what's going to happen here if we don't get in the way keep the government don't get in the way keep the government don't get in the way keep the government out of it out of it out of it >> and they're not communicating. >> and they're not communicating. >> and they're not communicating. >> It's a great point. >> It's a great point. >> It's a great point. >> You're missing one piece of it, which is >> You're missing one piece of it, which is >> You're missing one piece of it, which is at the same time that Anthropic was at the same time that Anthropic was at the same time that Anthropic was engaging in mandatory surveillance and engaging in mandatory surveillance and engaging in mandatory surveillance and nerfing its models. Daario wrote a new nerfing its models. Daario wrote a new nerfing its models. Daario wrote a new blog post. blog post. blog post. >> Oh god. saying that transparency was no >> Oh god. saying that transparency was no >> Oh god. saying that transparency was no longer good enough that we needed to longer good enough that we needed to longer good enough that we needed to have a new regulatory agency like an FAA have a new regulatory agency like an FAA have a new regulatory agency like an FAA or maybe an FDA to approve all models. or maybe an FDA to approve all models. or maybe an FDA to approve all models. So your presumption there is correct. So your presumption there is correct. So your presumption there is correct. Yes, if you could go somewhere else to Yes, if you could go somewhere else to Yes, if you could go somewhere else to get your questions answered, then you get your questions answered, then you get your questions answered, then you would have alternatives. But at the same would have alternatives. But at the same would have alternatives. But at the same time that Anthropic is engaging in this time that Anthropic is engaging in this time that Anthropic is engaging in this potentially anti-competitive behavior, potentially anti-competitive behavior, potentially anti-competitive behavior, they want to restrict your options. It's they want to restrict your options. It's they want to restrict your options. It's not good enough for them just to win in not good enough for them just to win in not good enough for them just to win in the free market. They're calling on the the free market. They're calling on the the free market. They're calling on the government to regulate and stop government to regulate and stop government to regulate and stop potential competitors and limit the potential competitors and limit the potential competitors and limit the number of models that you have access number of models that you have access number of models that you have access to. to. to. >> Why would they do that? Why would they >> Why would they do that? Why would they >> Why would they do that? Why would they want to get regulated? The answer super want to get regulated? The answer super want to get regulated? The answer super simple. They don't they want to apply simple. They don't they want to apply simple. They don't they want to apply that regulation to open source which is that regulation to open source which is that regulation to open source which is impossible. But this would be a great impossible. But this would be a great impossible. But this would be a great way to scuttle and sandbag open- source way to scuttle and sandbag open- source way to scuttle and sandbag open- source models. Yes. Because they don't have the models. Yes. Because they don't have the models. Yes. Because they don't have the ability to be regulated. So it's like a ability to be regulated. So it's like a ability to be regulated. So it's like a preemptive strike against token maxing preemptive strike against token maxing preemptive strike against token maxing on your local machine. on your local machine. on your local machine. >> Two years ago, I bought >> Two years ago, I bought >> Two years ago, I bought 2,000 acres in Arizona with a partner. 2,000 acres in Arizona with a partner. 2,000 acres in Arizona with a partner. We got it zoned. We got it approved. So, We got it zoned. We got it approved. So, We got it zoned. We got it approved. So, we're allowed to build a 2 gawatt data we're allowed to build a 2 gawatt data we're allowed to build a 2 gawatt data center. And I thought that this was the center. And I thought that this was the center. And I thought that this was the moment where you just turn around and moment where you just turn around and moment where you just turn around and you flip it to the Blackstones, the you flip it to the Blackstones, the you flip it to the Blackstones, the Brookfields of the world, to the Googles Brookfields of the world, to the Googles Brookfields of the world, to the Googles of the world. Let them develop it. And of the world. Let them develop it. And of the world. Let them develop it. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't I've come to the conclusion that I don't I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I can. And the reason is because I think I can. And the reason is because I think I can. And the reason is because I think that unless we direct large swats think that unless we direct large swats think that unless we direct large swats of compute exactly at the direction that of compute exactly at the direction that of compute exactly at the direction that Freeberg says, what Sax says and what Freeberg says, what Sax says and what Freeberg says, what Sax says and what Jason just said will happen and we won't Jason just said will happen and we won't Jason just said will happen and we won't have open source. So just to make it have open source. So just to make it have open source. So just to make it very clear when you look at the long very clear when you look at the long very clear when you look at the long tale of access to open source models, tale of access to open source models, tale of access to open source models, it's relatively minuscule. it's relatively minuscule. it's relatively minuscule. Most of the megawatts are still directed Most of the megawatts are still directed Most of the megawatts are still directed to the big models. Most of them, the to the big models. Most of them, the to the big models. Most of them, the overwhelming majority still goes to the overwhelming majority still goes to the overwhelming majority still goes to the big guys. And so I'm coming to the big guys. And so I'm coming to the big guys. And so I'm coming to the conclusion that I think we may just be conclusion that I think we may just be conclusion that I think we may just be dragged into having to build two dragged into having to build two dragged into having to build two gigawatts and I just put in an offer for gigawatts and I just put in an offer for gigawatts and I just put in an offer for another gigs in a different place another gigs in a different place another gigs in a different place because I'm like if you could take 3 because I'm like if you could take 3 because I'm like if you could take 3 gigawatts and now actually create a deep gigawatts and now actually create a deep gigawatts and now actually create a deep liquid access to open source we're going liquid access to open source we're going liquid access to open source we're going to have to do it. We as a community now to have to do it. We as a community now to have to do it. We as a community now I don't have the money to do that I don't have the money to do that I don't have the money to do that because just to put it out on the table because just to put it out on the table because just to put it out on the table a gigawatt now costs a hundred billion a gigawatt now costs a hundred billion a gigawatt now costs a hundred billion dollars guys. dollars guys. dollars guys. >> Okay. So there's a huge capital mo >> Okay. So there's a huge capital mo >> Okay. So there's a huge capital mo that's a problem here as well. Saxs that's a problem here as well. Saxs that's a problem here as well. Saxs which even if we wanted to go and which even if we wanted to go and which even if we wanted to go and endorse and breathe life into the open endorse and breathe life into the open endorse and breathe life into the open source model community [snorts] where source model community [snorts] where source model community [snorts] where the hell am I going to come up with the hell am I going to come up with the hell am I going to come up with hundred billion now when I started this hundred billion now when I started this hundred billion now when I started this project it was like four or five billion project it was like four or five billion project it was like four or five billion and it's increased by 20x. So if you and it's increased by 20x. So if you and it's increased by 20x. So if you want to get all three gigawatts want to get all three gigawatts want to get all three gigawatts developed I have to come up with 300 developed I have to come up with 300 developed I have to come up with 300 billion. I don't have obviously I don't billion. I don't have obviously I don't billion. I don't have obviously I don't have $300 billion. So what are we all have $300 billion. So what are we all have $300 billion. So what are we all supposed to do? And then if you get the supposed to do? And then if you get the supposed to do? And then if you get the rug pull and the ladder pull on the rug pull and the ladder pull on the rug pull and the ladder pull on the regulatory side, we are going to be regulatory side, we are going to be regulatory side, we are going to be stuck with one class of models and one stuck with one class of models and one stuck with one class of models and one set of rules and we won't understand how set of rules and we won't understand how set of rules and we won't understand how to operate to operate to operate >> in the US. >> in the US. >> in the US. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The rest of the world won't be >> Yeah. The rest of the world won't be >> Yeah. The rest of the world won't be limited. But in the US, the limited. But in the US, the limited. But in the US, the >> rest of the world will be able to >> rest of the world will be able to >> rest of the world will be able to operate operate operate >> and you'll be able to run these on your >> and you'll be able to run these on your >> and you'll be able to run these on your Apple silicon, you know, Apple silicon, you know, Apple silicon, you know, >> and we're already seeing China race >> and we're already seeing China race >> and we're already seeing China race ahead in biotech. They're racing ahead ahead in biotech. They're racing ahead ahead in biotech. They're racing ahead in material science. They're racing in material science. They're racing in material science. They're racing ahead in new industrial systems. the ahead in new industrial systems. the ahead in new industrial systems. the capabilities that are going to be kind capabilities that are going to be kind capabilities that are going to be kind of lopsided is going to create an unfair of lopsided is going to create an unfair of lopsided is going to create an unfair advantage and that's when our workforce advantage and that's when our workforce advantage and that's when our workforce and when our economy is truly at risk. and when our economy is truly at risk. and when our economy is truly at risk. >> Hey Freeberg, isn't it true that you >> Hey Freeberg, isn't it true that you >> Hey Freeberg, isn't it true that you guys use a open source model for guys use a open source model for guys use a open source model for genomics? Didn't the Collison put out genomics? Didn't the Collison put out genomics? Didn't the Collison put out one? Can you talk? one? Can you talk? one? Can you talk? >> It's great. And the Ark Institute >> It's great. And the Ark Institute >> It's great. And the Ark Institute ingested all the world's genomic data ingested all the world's genomic data ingested all the world's genomic data that they could get access to and it's that they could get access to and it's that they could get access to and it's it's a genome language model basically. it's a genome language model basically. it's a genome language model basically. So in our plant breeding program, we're So in our plant breeding program, we're So in our plant breeding program, we're trying to figure out whether a trying to figure out whether a trying to figure out whether a particular variant of a gene in a plant particular variant of a gene in a plant particular variant of a gene in a plant is good or bad, if we don't know from is good or bad, if we don't know from is good or bad, if we don't know from empiricism, from data historically empiricism, from data historically empiricism, from data historically whether it's good or bad. So you can whether it's good or bad. So you can whether it's good or bad. So you can feed it into this model and this model feed it into this model and this model feed it into this model and this model will look at the order of the letters of will look at the order of the letters of will look at the order of the letters of the DNA and determine, hey, that's a the DNA and determine, hey, that's a the DNA and determine, hey, that's a good set of letters or a bad set of good set of letters or a bad set of good set of letters or a bad set of letters. It's almost like, is that good letters. It's almost like, is that good letters. It's almost like, is that good English or bad English? It's figured out English or bad English? It's figured out English or bad English? It's figured out the language of DNA because it sees the the language of DNA because it sees the the language of DNA because it sees the probability of those letters being in a probability of those letters being in a probability of those letters being in a row in other organisms and so on. And so row in other organisms and so on. And so row in other organisms and so on. And so it's a very powerful tool. So we've it's a very powerful tool. So we've it's a very powerful tool. So we've taken that in and we're using it and taken that in and we're using it and taken that in and we're using it and others are taking it in and they use it others are taking it in and they use it others are taking it in and they use it very actively. So it's part of our plant very actively. So it's part of our plant very actively. So it's part of our plant breeding program as an input. It's a breeding program as an input. It's a breeding program as an input. It's a good example where a community in this good example where a community in this good example where a community in this case the Collisons and others put money case the Collisons and others put money case the Collisons and others put money behind it to fund this research and behind it to fund this research and behind it to fund this research and output this open- source model. And I output this open- source model. And I output this open- source model. And I think we see more of that kind of coming think we see more of that kind of coming think we see more of that kind of coming down the pipe which creates a a very down the pipe which creates a a very down the pipe which creates a a very great advantage great advantage great advantage against the closed proprietary model against the closed proprietary model against the closed proprietary model ecosystem. So the more of this we can ecosystem. So the more of this we can ecosystem. So the more of this we can kind of support proliferate and see work kind of support proliferate and see work kind of support proliferate and see work in the United States, the more we're not in the United States, the more we're not in the United States, the more we're not going to be disadvantaged of the going to be disadvantaged of the going to be disadvantaged of the government and self-regulation happens government and self-regulation happens government and self-regulation happens with all the big model providers that with all the big model providers that with all the big model providers that are trying to do everything. are trying to do everything. are trying to do everything. >> I think it's important we take a minute >> I think it's important we take a minute >> I think it's important we take a minute to just steelman the argument as well. to just steelman the argument as well. to just steelman the argument as well. If your Daario who has clearly been If your Daario who has clearly been If your Daario who has clearly been oneshotted, I think he's got like AI oneshotted, I think he's got like AI oneshotted, I think he's got like AI psychosis with these like 5,000word blog psychosis with these like 5,000word blog psychosis with these like 5,000word blog posts and he believes he's building this posts and he believes he's building this posts and he believes he's building this franken site of a of a tool. But if you franken site of a of a tool. But if you franken site of a of a tool. But if you did believe you built something that's did believe you built something that's did believe you built something that's extremely powerful and you have concerns extremely powerful and you have concerns extremely powerful and you have concerns that people might misuse it, I think he that people might misuse it, I think he that people might misuse it, I think he actually believes that he and these are actually believes that he and these are actually believes that he and these are either delusions of grandeur or he either delusions of grandeur or he either delusions of grandeur or he actually has seen something that's actually has seen something that's actually has seen something that's incredibly powerful and he believes this incredibly powerful and he believes this incredibly powerful and he believes this is dangerous. Therefore, I'm going to is dangerous. Therefore, I'm going to is dangerous. Therefore, I'm going to hold it. I'm going to you give it to a hold it. I'm going to you give it to a hold it. I'm going to you give it to a select group of partners to tighten up select group of partners to tighten up select group of partners to tighten up the cyber security. Then I'm going to the cyber security. Then I'm going to the cyber security. Then I'm going to roll it out cautiously to our user base roll it out cautiously to our user base roll it out cautiously to our user base and I'm going to let them know. And he and I'm going to let them know. And he and I'm going to let them know. And he obviously didn't communicate this well. obviously didn't communicate this well. obviously didn't communicate this well. This is optional for you to use it. You This is optional for you to use it. You This is optional for you to use it. You can keep using your old model. You are can keep using your old model. You are can keep using your old model. You are not forced to use this, but because it's not forced to use this, but because it's not forced to use this, but because it's so powerful, we're going to keep our eye so powerful, we're going to keep our eye so powerful, we're going to keep our eye on it. And yes, we might in our drag net on it. And yes, we might in our drag net on it. And yes, we might in our drag net catch David Freeberg trying to make catch David Freeberg trying to make catch David Freeberg trying to make better potatoes and it might send off a better potatoes and it might send off a better potatoes and it might send off a bunch of alarms, but he doesn't have to bunch of alarms, but he doesn't have to bunch of alarms, but he doesn't have to use this. He can go find an open source use this. He can go find an open source use this. He can go find an open source model. He can use the Carlson Brothers model. He can use the Carlson Brothers model. He can use the Carlson Brothers model. He can use our older models. But model. He can use our older models. But model. He can use our older models. But for some period of time, we're just for some period of time, we're just for some period of time, we're just going to keep an eye on this model going to keep an eye on this model going to keep an eye on this model because we know that it feels a little because we know that it feels a little because we know that it feels a little dangerous. Now, he does seem to be dangerous. Now, he does seem to be dangerous. Now, he does seem to be extremely hyperbolic and the delusions extremely hyperbolic and the delusions extremely hyperbolic and the delusions of grandeur, all that kind of part of it of grandeur, all that kind of part of it of grandeur, all that kind of part of it makes me wonder why he's communicating makes me wonder why he's communicating makes me wonder why he's communicating in the way he's doing it. That being in the way he's doing it. That being in the way he's doing it. That being said, 90% of AI researchers and the most said, 90% of AI researchers and the most said, 90% of AI researchers and the most talented people in this industry, 80 90% talented people in this industry, 80 90% talented people in this industry, 80 90% of them think exactly like Daria. That's of them think exactly like Daria. That's of them think exactly like Daria. That's why he's winning. If you work in AI, you why he's winning. If you work in AI, you why he's winning. If you work in AI, you probably are aligned with these probably are aligned with these probably are aligned with these delusions that you're creating God and delusions that you're creating God and delusions that you're creating God and you want to work for Daario. That's why you want to work for Daario. That's why you want to work for Daario. That's why all the talented people went to work for all the talented people went to work for all the talented people went to work for him. That's why he's winning. His belief him. That's why he's winning. His belief him. That's why he's winning. His belief system resonates with those elite AI system resonates with those elite AI system resonates with those elite AI talent. Now, some of them are also talent. Now, some of them are also talent. Now, some of them are also libertarian, free market. They want to libertarian, free market. They want to libertarian, free market. They want to work for Elon and Grock. Some of them work for Elon and Grock. Some of them work for Elon and Grock. Some of them want to just get the biggest pay want to just get the biggest pay want to just get the biggest pay package. Go work for Sam Alman. package. Go work for Sam Alman. package. Go work for Sam Alman. But I do think there is a steelman here. But I do think there is a steelman here. But I do think there is a steelman here. Meta really fumbled this with Llama. I Meta really fumbled this with Llama. I Meta really fumbled this with Llama. I mean, if they had landed a really good mean, if they had landed a really good mean, if they had landed a really good >> working open source model, we talked >> working open source model, we talked >> working open source model, we talked about this as well and we said Zuck about this as well and we said Zuck about this as well and we said Zuck needs to view this through the lens of needs to view this through the lens of needs to view this through the lens of game theory. How do you scorch the earth game theory. How do you scorch the earth game theory. How do you scorch the earth and how do you make a viable open-source and how do you make a viable open-source and how do you make a viable open-source model available and make it neck and model available and make it neck and model available and make it neck and neck and this was two years ago, right? neck and this was two years ago, right? neck and this was two years ago, right? What a fumble. What a fumble. What a fumble. >> Take the margin out for everybody else. >> Take the margin out for everybody else. >> Take the margin out for everybody else. >> Yeah, take the margin out, make it a >> Yeah, take the margin out, make it a >> Yeah, take the margin out, make it a commodity and yeah, have the best open. commodity and yeah, have the best open. commodity and yeah, have the best open. Can Can Can >> I can I just respond to your comment >> I can I just respond to your comment >> I can I just respond to your comment about Daario? I I think because I've about Daario? I I think because I've about Daario? I I think because I've heard this from a number of people that heard this from a number of people that heard this from a number of people that I really do respect I really do respect I really do respect on their concerns about what models on their concerns about what models on their concerns about what models enable. You know, when when we enable. You know, when when we enable. You know, when when we discovered that how the atom could be discovered that how the atom could be discovered that how the atom could be split, you could make nuclear energy and split, you could make nuclear energy and split, you could make nuclear energy and have effectively unlimited cheap energy have effectively unlimited cheap energy have effectively unlimited cheap energy for the world, you could also make an for the world, you could also make an for the world, you could also make an atomic bomb. If you think about what the atomic bomb. If you think about what the atomic bomb. If you think about what the models are, models are, models are, >> we did both. >> we did both. >> we did both. >> We did both. >> We did both. >> We did both. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. And there was a lot of scientists, And there was a lot of scientists, And there was a lot of scientists, altruists who were very concerned about altruists who were very concerned about altruists who were very concerned about the progress on the atomic bomb and the progress on the atomic bomb and the progress on the atomic bomb and fought back against it who were actually fought back against it who were actually fought back against it who were actually active in the Manhattan Project and post active in the Manhattan Project and post active in the Manhattan Project and post the Manhattan Project express their the Manhattan Project express their the Manhattan Project express their opinions very soundly, very very loudly. opinions very soundly, very very loudly. opinions very soundly, very very loudly. And I think that's the moment we're in And I think that's the moment we're in And I think that's the moment we're in right now that there is a weaponization right now that there is a weaponization right now that there is a weaponization potential of these sorts of tools. I I potential of these sorts of tools. I I potential of these sorts of tools. I I would argue that there's three kinds of would argue that there's three kinds of would argue that there's three kinds of weapons. There's cyber weapons, there's weapons. There's cyber weapons, there's weapons. There's cyber weapons, there's physical weapons, and there's physical weapons, and there's physical weapons, and there's bioweapons. And we can sit here and bioweapons. And we can sit here and bioweapons. And we can sit here and diagnose how these tools can be used to diagnose how these tools can be used to diagnose how these tools can be used to manifest advantages for creating better manifest advantages for creating better manifest advantages for creating better physical weapons, for creating novel physical weapons, for creating novel physical weapons, for creating novel cyber weapons, and creating novel cyber weapons, and creating novel cyber weapons, and creating novel boweapons. But the truth is that the cap boweapons. But the truth is that the cap boweapons. But the truth is that the cap capabilities that allow that capabilities that allow that capabilities that allow that weaponization are the same capabilities weaponization are the same capabilities weaponization are the same capabilities that I'm describing that can be used to that I'm describing that can be used to that I'm describing that can be used to cure cancer, to make more food, that can cure cancer, to make more food, that can cure cancer, to make more food, that can be used to make software tools that be used to make software tools that be used to make software tools that create extraordinary leverage for create extraordinary leverage for create extraordinary leverage for people, that increase their income, that people, that increase their income, that people, that increase their income, that give everyone the ability to be an give everyone the ability to be an give everyone the ability to be an entrepreneur and make millions of entrepreneur and make millions of entrepreneur and make millions of dollars and live a good life. The same dollars and live a good life. The same dollars and live a good life. The same tools are hand in hand. And tools are hand in hand. And tools are hand in hand. And fundamentally I don't think it's about fundamentally I don't think it's about fundamentally I don't think it's about restricting access to the tools which is restricting access to the tools which is restricting access to the tools which is unfortunately how it is being manifest. unfortunately how it is being manifest. unfortunately how it is being manifest. But the restrictions and any regulation But the restrictions and any regulation But the restrictions and any regulation any observation should be organized any observation should be organized any observation should be organized around the manifestation of the tools in around the manifestation of the tools in around the manifestation of the tools in creating weapons and uh weaponization of creating weapons and uh weaponization of creating weapons and uh weaponization of the tools. If we go back to the the tools. If we go back to the the tools. If we go back to the Manhattan project, we know what the Manhattan project, we know what the Manhattan project, we know what the answer is. Technology is fundamentally answer is. Technology is fundamentally answer is. Technology is fundamentally deterministic. Whatever is possible will deterministic. Whatever is possible will deterministic. Whatever is possible will be tried at least once. And so we've be tried at least once. And so we've be tried at least once. And so we've already let this thing out of the box. already let this thing out of the box. already let this thing out of the box. So this idea that all of a sudden we can So this idea that all of a sudden we can So this idea that all of a sudden we can manage to get it back in and we're going manage to get it back in and we're going manage to get it back in and we're going to let a private citizen or a set of to let a private citizen or a set of to let a private citizen or a set of private citizens adjudicate what and to private citizens adjudicate what and to private citizens adjudicate what and to whom is insane. whom is insane. whom is insane. I think it's the output that needs to be I think it's the output that needs to be I think it's the output that needs to be adjudicated in some manner. We already adjudicated in some manner. We already adjudicated in some manner. We already have product liability laws. We already have product liability laws. We already have product liability laws. We already have laws that make it illegal to design have laws that make it illegal to design have laws that make it illegal to design weapons. We already have laws against weapons. We already have laws against weapons. We already have laws against cyber espionage and cyber attacks and cyber espionage and cyber attacks and cyber espionage and cyber attacks and hacking. We have laws against creating hacking. We have laws against creating hacking. We have laws against creating bioweapons. I think the enforcement of bioweapons. I think the enforcement of bioweapons. I think the enforcement of those laws, the mechanism by which there those laws, the mechanism by which there those laws, the mechanism by which there can be tracking and early estimation of can be tracking and early estimation of can be tracking and early estimation of those uses of the technology. I'm not those uses of the technology. I'm not those uses of the technology. I'm not trying to be naive here. I recognize trying to be naive here. I recognize trying to be naive here. I recognize there have to be guard rails and there there have to be guard rails and there there have to be guard rails and there have to be stage gates put into these have to be stage gates put into these have to be stage gates put into these systems. But limiting the systems systems. But limiting the systems systems. But limiting the systems themselves is denying us both the themselves is denying us both the themselves is denying us both the economic opportunity, the job creation economic opportunity, the job creation economic opportunity, the job creation opportunity and also the world changing opportunity and also the world changing opportunity and also the world changing opportunity that these tools can enable. opportunity that these tools can enable. opportunity that these tools can enable. So I think that we're going about it the So I think that we're going about it the So I think that we're going about it the wrong way by trying to create these wrong way by trying to create these wrong way by trying to create these gates all the way up front on the gates all the way up front on the gates all the way up front on the technology being available. Imagine if technology being available. Imagine if technology being available. Imagine if we did this with computers. By the way, we did this with computers. By the way, we did this with computers. By the way, they tried to do this with the internet, they tried to do this with the internet, they tried to do this with the internet, remember? And um there had been efforts. remember? And um there had been efforts. remember? And um there had been efforts. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Could you imagine, Freeberg, if the >> Could you imagine, Freeberg, if the >> Could you imagine, Freeberg, if the internet worked in the following way? internet worked in the following way? internet worked in the following way? You would put in a URL, you'd hit enter, You would put in a URL, you'd hit enter, You would put in a URL, you'd hit enter, and then somebody decides whether to and then somebody decides whether to and then somebody decides whether to send you to that website or a different send you to that website or a different send you to that website or a different website. website. website. >> That's China. That's the firewall in >> That's China. That's the firewall in >> That's China. That's the firewall in China. That's right. China. That's right. China. That's right. >> Or like in Google, you search for >> Or like in Google, you search for >> Or like in Google, you search for something because you want to get to something because you want to get to something because you want to get to ground truth and it just decides based ground truth and it just decides based ground truth and it just decides based on who it thinks you are, what sites on who it thinks you are, what sites on who it thinks you are, what sites get. get. get. >> That's what we're You're exactly right. >> That's what we're You're exactly right. >> That's what we're You're exactly right. Right. And what we're what's what's Right. And what we're what's what's Right. And what we're what's what's being debated today with respect to being debated today with respect to being debated today with respect to regulation on AI is exactly that regulation on AI is exactly that regulation on AI is exactly that manifestation that you're talking about. manifestation that you're talking about. manifestation that you're talking about. It's the ability to let people stage It's the ability to let people stage It's the ability to let people stage gate up front what can and can't be gate up front what can and can't be gate up front what can and can't be seen, what you can and can't do versus seen, what you can and can't do versus seen, what you can and can't do versus manifesting a regulatory scheme that manifesting a regulatory scheme that manifesting a regulatory scheme that says you cannot create weapons like says you cannot create weapons like says you cannot create weapons like which is what we need to focus on. The which is what we need to focus on. The which is what we need to focus on. The thing with weapons is using the justice thing with weapons is using the justice thing with weapons is using the justice system and laws after somebody's used a system and laws after somebody's used a system and laws after somebody's used a weapon may not exactly be the best weapon may not exactly be the best weapon may not exactly be the best technique. If you look at fertilizer technique. If you look at fertilizer technique. If you look at fertilizer bombs, and this is we're getting like uh bombs, and this is we're getting like uh bombs, and this is we're getting like uh we're stretching a lot of metaphors we're stretching a lot of metaphors we're stretching a lot of metaphors here, but OK after Oklahoma City, we here, but OK after Oklahoma City, we here, but OK after Oklahoma City, we regulated the sale of fertilizer. We put regulated the sale of fertilizer. We put regulated the sale of fertilizer. We put IDs into fertilizer. IDs into fertilizer. IDs into fertilizer. We have all kinds of back-end systems to We have all kinds of back-end systems to We have all kinds of back-end systems to keep people from making fertilizer keep people from making fertilizer keep people from making fertilizer bombs. If you use that analogy here, and bombs. If you use that analogy here, and bombs. If you use that analogy here, and he's got this ability, he's selling he's got this ability, he's selling he's got this ability, he's selling fertilizer, he's selling these cyber fertilizer, he's selling these cyber fertilizer, he's selling these cyber weapons, and he's a private company. weapons, and he's a private company. weapons, and he's a private company. It's his right to say, I have concerns. It's his right to say, I have concerns. It's his right to say, I have concerns. I'm just steel milling him. It's not I'm just steel milling him. It's not I'm just steel milling him. It's not necessarily my opinion, but it's necessarily my opinion, but it's necessarily my opinion, but it's important we steel man it. It seems like important we steel man it. It seems like important we steel man it. It seems like a very simple way to a very simple way to a very simple way to protect their company from getting sued protect their company from getting sued protect their company from getting sued for enabling somebody who actually for enabling somebody who actually for enabling somebody who actually creates a bomb and blows some up. creates a bomb and blows some up. creates a bomb and blows some up. So, he's got the right to do that as a So, he's got the right to do that as a So, he's got the right to do that as a private company. private company. private company. >> Yeah, you're bringing up an excellent >> Yeah, you're bringing up an excellent >> Yeah, you're bringing up an excellent example. Okay, the fertilizer is a example. Okay, the fertilizer is a example. Okay, the fertilizer is a perfect example. You know what happens perfect example. You know what happens perfect example. You know what happens when you try to buy fertilizer? You have when you try to buy fertilizer? You have when you try to buy fertilizer? You have to show your ID. There is a form of KYC to show your ID. There is a form of KYC to show your ID. There is a form of KYC that happens. So the real thing is I that happens. So the real thing is I that happens. So the real thing is I think that when you don't implement KYC think that when you don't implement KYC think that when you don't implement KYC on your own and yet belly ache about on your own and yet belly ache about on your own and yet belly ache about having somebody impose guard rails that having somebody impose guard rails that having somebody impose guard rails that then you can shape, I think you're being then you can shape, I think you're being then you can shape, I think you're being very sneaky. It's tricky. You shouldn't very sneaky. It's tricky. You shouldn't very sneaky. It's tricky. You shouldn't be saying that kind of stuff. Anthropic be saying that kind of stuff. Anthropic be saying that kind of stuff. Anthropic could implement KYC tomorrow, but it could implement KYC tomorrow, but it could implement KYC tomorrow, but it does not. It could leave all of these does not. It could leave all of these does not. It could leave all of these models open. Freeberg should be able to models open. Freeberg should be able to models open. Freeberg should be able to go to Anthropic and say, "I'm David go to Anthropic and say, "I'm David go to Anthropic and say, "I'm David Freeberg. Here's what I do. Here's a Freeberg. Here's what I do. Here's a Freeberg. Here's what I do. Here's a security bond I'm willing to post. security bond I'm willing to post. security bond I'm willing to post. Here's the names and addresses of all my Here's the names and addresses of all my Here's the names and addresses of all my employees. Give me Fable 5 and don't employees. Give me Fable 5 and don't employees. Give me Fable 5 and don't nerf me. He can't do that. Is that a nerf me. He can't do that. Is that a nerf me. He can't do that. Is that a technical decision or a legal decision? technical decision or a legal decision? technical decision or a legal decision? It's a technical decision by Enrop. But It's a technical decision by Enrop. But It's a technical decision by Enrop. But I'm fine with them making that decision I'm fine with them making that decision I'm fine with them making that decision because I'm a free market guy. So I I'm because I'm a free market guy. So I I'm because I'm a free market guy. So I I'm fine with them doing and but you know fine with them doing and but you know fine with them doing and but you know what it means? I'm not going to be a what it means? I'm not going to be a what it means? I'm not going to be a customer, which is fine. That's and customer, which is fine. That's and customer, which is fine. That's and that's means there'll be other options that's means there'll be other options that's means there'll be other options for you. The part that you're missing is for you. The part that you're missing is for you. The part that you're missing is that this is a trillion dollar company that this is a trillion dollar company that this is a trillion dollar company that's spending potentially billions of that's spending potentially billions of that's spending potentially billions of dollars on a regulatory capture agenda dollars on a regulatory capture agenda dollars on a regulatory capture agenda which is going to deprive you of access which is going to deprive you of access which is going to deprive you of access to those alternative models. to those alternative models. to those alternative models. >> And you've got a founder who's out there >> And you've got a founder who's out there >> And you've got a founder who's out there describing these risks in a very describing these risks in a very describing these risks in a very hyperbolic way. And it's very clear hyperbolic way. And it's very clear hyperbolic way. And it's very clear where their agenda is headed, which is where their agenda is headed, which is where their agenda is headed, which is to banning open source models. So what to banning open source models. So what to banning open source models. So what is your alternative going to be? We're is your alternative going to be? We're is your alternative going to be? We're going to be stuck with somewhere between going to be stuck with somewhere between going to be stuck with somewhere between one and three companies, maybe two. one and three companies, maybe two. one and three companies, maybe two. There'll be a AI monopoly or duopoly and There'll be a AI monopoly or duopoly and There'll be a AI monopoly or duopoly and they're going to decide along with some they're going to decide along with some they're going to decide along with some new government agency which will be a new government agency which will be a new government agency which will be a revolving door to their companies who revolving door to their companies who revolving door to their companies who has access to what capabilities and has access to what capabilities and has access to what capabilities and they're going to surveil you profile you they're going to surveil you profile you they're going to surveil you profile you decide whether you deserve this and if decide whether you deserve this and if decide whether you deserve this and if they think that you don't for whatever they think that you don't for whatever they think that you don't for whatever reason then you'll be right you'll be reason then you'll be right you'll be reason then you'll be right you'll be the worst interpretation of it that's the worst interpretation of it that's the worst interpretation of it that's the worst interpretation of their intent the worst interpretation of their intent the worst interpretation of their intent it's here today it's here today it's here today >> I think Sax is right I think Sax is >> I think Sax is right I think Sax is >> I think Sax is right I think Sax is right and I think the lack of KYC is the right and I think the lack of KYC is the right and I think the lack of KYC is the tell. If you if you did not have that tell. If you if you did not have that tell. If you if you did not have that agenda, you would have implemented KYC agenda, you would have implemented KYC agenda, you would have implemented KYC yesterday. yesterday. yesterday. >> Don't I think in order to use this >> Don't I think in order to use this >> Don't I think in order to use this model, you have to have an account with model, you have to have an account with model, you have to have an account with a credit card in it so they have some a credit card in it so they have some a credit card in it so they have some basic level of KYC. basic level of KYC. basic level of KYC. >> That is not KYC. >> That is not KYC. >> That is not KYC. >> I said some basic level of KYC. They >> I said some basic level of KYC. They >> I said some basic level of KYC. They know who's using know who's using know who's using >> that is not even some basic level of >> that is not even some basic level of >> that is not even some basic level of KYC. That's just a credit card and a KYC. That's just a credit card and a KYC. That's just a credit card and a email address. [laughter] email address. [laughter] email address. [laughter] >> Anyway, I I'm now on the list. Check >> Anyway, I I'm now on the list. Check >> Anyway, I I'm now on the list. Check this out. I asked it about the this out. I asked it about the this out. I asked it about the regulations. Pull this up, Nick. I asked regulations. Pull this up, Nick. I asked regulations. Pull this up, Nick. I asked it about the regulations on fertilizer it about the regulations on fertilizer it about the regulations on fertilizer while you were talking and look what it while you were talking and look what it while you were talking and look what it said. This is the latest model too. Oh said. This is the latest model too. Oh said. This is the latest model too. Oh no, it switched. It downgraded me from no, it switched. It downgraded me from no, it switched. It downgraded me from Fable. I just got downgraded for asking Fable. I just got downgraded for asking Fable. I just got downgraded for asking a very simple question and it told me a very simple question and it told me a very simple question and it told me did you see what it said in its did you see what it said in its did you see what it said in its thinking? The I asked it like fertilizer thinking? The I asked it like fertilizer thinking? The I asked it like fertilizer bomb regulations said I'm considering bomb regulations said I'm considering bomb regulations said I'm considering the context here. The user is a VC and the context here. The user is a VC and the context here. The user is a VC and podcaster asking about fertilizer bomb podcaster asking about fertilizer bomb podcaster asking about fertilizer bomb regulations which could stem from a regulations which could stem from a regulations which could stem from a legitimate research interest like legitimate research interest like legitimate research interest like regulatory policy, supply chain blah regulatory policy, supply chain blah regulatory policy, supply chain blah blah. I can discuss the regulatory blah. I can discuss the regulatory blah. I can discuss the regulatory landscape, but then it dropped me down. landscape, but then it dropped me down. landscape, but then it dropped me down. So, I'm in the database with you now. So, I'm in the database with you now. So, I'm in the database with you now. >> Is that right? Did it really just do >> Is that right? Did it really just do >> Is that right? Did it really just do that? that? that? >> Yeah. Show it on the screen. Look what >> Yeah. Show it on the screen. Look what >> Yeah. Show it on the screen. Look what it just did. I I was like, I wonder if I it just did. I I was like, I wonder if I it just did. I I was like, I wonder if I can get this. I didn't ask it how to can get this. I didn't ask it how to can get this. I didn't ask it how to make a bomb, but I was like asking it a make a bomb, but I was like asking it a make a bomb, but I was like asking it a spicy spicy spicy >> cooked. [laughter] I just proved the >> cooked. [laughter] I just proved the >> cooked. [laughter] I just proved the point. point. point. >> Listen, I mean, I think >> Listen, I mean, I think >> Listen, I mean, I think >> he just dropped me down. I can't ask >> he just dropped me down. I can't ask >> he just dropped me down. I can't ask about fertilizer regulation. And now about fertilizer regulation. And now about fertilizer regulation. And now Daario's Daario's Daario's it's anthropic. They're here. it's anthropic. They're here. it's anthropic. They're here. >> Oh my lord. >> Oh my lord. >> Oh my lord. >> I really think that conservatives and >> I really think that conservatives and >> I really think that conservatives and libertarians are mortgaging their libertarians are mortgaging their libertarians are mortgaging their futures if they go along with this red futures if they go along with this red futures if they go along with this red capture safetist agenda without really capture safetist agenda without really capture safetist agenda without really realizing that there's so much more to realizing that there's so much more to realizing that there's so much more to it at stake. We saw what happened during it at stake. We saw what happened during it at stake. We saw what happened during the social media wars in the early the social media wars in the early the social media wars in the early 2020s, right? The definition of safety 2020s, right? The definition of safety 2020s, right? The definition of safety was expanded to include things like was expanded to include things like was expanded to include things like microaggressions, microaggressions, microaggressions, >> safe space, >> safe space, >> safe space, >> psychological safety. If you basically >> psychological safety. If you basically >> psychological safety. If you basically conveyed an idea that somebody else that conveyed an idea that somebody else that conveyed an idea that somebody else that you know marginalized person thought was you know marginalized person thought was you know marginalized person thought was hurtful, then you could be censored. hurtful, then you could be censored. hurtful, then you could be censored. Okay? You were depersoned. Your right to Okay? You were depersoned. Your right to Okay? You were depersoned. Your right to have bank accounts or to engage in have bank accounts or to engage in have bank accounts or to engage in payments was take you get debanked. Your payments was take you get debanked. Your payments was take you get debanked. Your right to engage in payments or payroll right to engage in payments or payroll right to engage in payments or payroll could be taken away. could be taken away. could be taken away. >> We're headed down this path with AI, but >> We're headed down this path with AI, but >> We're headed down this path with AI, but it's going to be infinitely more it's going to be infinitely more it's going to be infinitely more powerful, right? We need to be vigilant, powerful, right? We need to be vigilant, powerful, right? We need to be vigilant, I guess, would be the the the the I guess, would be the the the the I guess, would be the the the the summation of all this. And Freeberg summation of all this. And Freeberg summation of all this. And Freeberg feels unsafe in this podcast, I think, feels unsafe in this podcast, I think, feels unsafe in this podcast, I think, sometimes. sometimes. sometimes. >> Well, there's by by the way, there are >> Well, there's by by the way, there are >> Well, there's by by the way, there are things you can do on the safety side. things you can do on the safety side. things you can do on the safety side. So, Freeberg, you didn't mention this, So, Freeberg, you didn't mention this, So, Freeberg, you didn't mention this, but I'd be curious to get your your but I'd be curious to get your your but I'd be curious to get your your take. So, the major AI labs along with take. So, the major AI labs along with take. So, the major AI labs along with lots of other signatories sent this lots of other signatories sent this lots of other signatories sent this letter recently in support of it's letter recently in support of it's letter recently in support of it's called in support of mandatory nucleic called in support of mandatory nucleic called in support of mandatory nucleic acid synthetic screening and acid synthetic screening and acid synthetic screening and recordkeeping. And basically what it recordkeeping. And basically what it recordkeeping. And basically what it what it says is that if you make an what it says is that if you make an what it says is that if you make an order to go to a lab to manufacture a order to go to a lab to manufacture a order to go to a lab to manufacture a sequence of synthetic DNA or RNA, they sequence of synthetic DNA or RNA, they sequence of synthetic DNA or RNA, they already have to check it against a already have to check it against a already have to check it against a database to make sure that you know database to make sure that you know database to make sure that you know they're not creating they're not creating they're not creating >> a bioweapon, >> a bioweapon, >> a bioweapon, >> a boweapon, Ebola, whatever. >> a boweapon, Ebola, whatever. >> a boweapon, Ebola, whatever. >> Yep. that is based on an agreement >> Yep. that is based on an agreement >> Yep. that is based on an agreement called the international gene synthesis called the international gene synthesis called the international gene synthesis consortium of 2009 in which all the consortium of 2009 in which all the consortium of 2009 in which all the major labs agree to develop and major labs agree to develop and major labs agree to develop and implement voluntary safeguards against implement voluntary safeguards against implement voluntary safeguards against misuse. That makes sense to me. And now misuse. That makes sense to me. And now misuse. That makes sense to me. And now what they want to do is codify that. So what they want to do is codify that. So what they want to do is codify that. So they've had, you know, over 15 years to they've had, you know, over 15 years to they've had, you know, over 15 years to dial in the system and make it work. dial in the system and make it work. dial in the system and make it work. Almost everyone abides by it Almost everyone abides by it Almost everyone abides by it voluntarily. Now they're saying we voluntarily. Now they're saying we voluntarily. Now they're saying we should make it mandatory. Okay, that should make it mandatory. Okay, that should make it mandatory. Okay, that seems reasonable to me. So to Freeberg's seems reasonable to me. So to Freeberg's seems reasonable to me. So to Freeberg's point about at what stage do you point about at what stage do you point about at what stage do you intervene, maybe it's not at the level intervene, maybe it's not at the level intervene, maybe it's not at the level of who gets to use the model, but if you of who gets to use the model, but if you of who gets to use the model, but if you try to turn it into output in the try to turn it into output in the try to turn it into output in the physical world. And by the way, a lot of physical world. And by the way, a lot of physical world. And by the way, a lot of the oligosynthesis company, the the oligosynthesis company, the the oligosynthesis company, the companies that make these nucleic acid companies that make these nucleic acid companies that make these nucleic acid sequences, when you order RNA or you sequences, when you order RNA or you sequences, when you order RNA or you order DNA to use in your lab for some order DNA to use in your lab for some order DNA to use in your lab for some sort of experiment, which every lab in sort of experiment, which every lab in sort of experiment, which every lab in the world does, all those CEOs have also the world does, all those CEOs have also the world does, all those CEOs have also signed on to this letter saying that signed on to this letter saying that signed on to this letter saying that they'd like to codify it because of all they'd like to codify it because of all they'd like to codify it because of all the fear-mongering that's going on. the fear-mongering that's going on. the fear-mongering that's going on. There's already been this effort for There's already been this effort for There's already been this effort for years now, for a number of years to years now, for a number of years to years now, for a number of years to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't ensure that this sort of thing doesn't ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen. but they're just basically happen. but they're just basically happen. but they're just basically underlining it and highlighting like, underlining it and highlighting like, underlining it and highlighting like, hey, we can automate this. We can make hey, we can automate this. We can make hey, we can automate this. We can make it part of a regulated or legislative it part of a regulated or legislative it part of a regulated or legislative process, whatever you guys want, because process, whatever you guys want, because process, whatever you guys want, because we're already comfortable doing it. And we're already comfortable doing it. And we're already comfortable doing it. And it's a it's a good place to put a it's a it's a good place to put a it's a it's a good place to put a safeguard because they've made it fast. safeguard because they've made it fast. safeguard because they've made it fast. They've made it efficient and doesn't They've made it efficient and doesn't They've made it efficient and doesn't hold up research. hold up research. hold up research. >> So, I think these sorts of ideas can >> So, I think these sorts of ideas can >> So, I think these sorts of ideas can extend into these other areas of extend into these other areas of extend into these other areas of concern, but the output, I think, is concern, but the output, I think, is concern, but the output, I think, is quite a different place than the input quite a different place than the input quite a different place than the input than the access. We'll see how this all than the access. We'll see how this all than the access. We'll see how this all shakes out, but there's clearly some shakes out, but there's clearly some shakes out, but there's clearly some market structuring effort underway as market structuring effort underway as market structuring effort underway as we're talking about this, we're talking about this, we're talking about this, >> right? But I think what it points to is >> right? But I think what it points to is >> right? But I think what it points to is that there's multiple places where you that there's multiple places where you that there's multiple places where you can intervene and put guard rails on. It can intervene and put guard rails on. It can intervene and put guard rails on. It doesn't have to be in this very crude doesn't have to be in this very crude doesn't have to be in this very crude way of you ask fable about mitochondria way of you ask fable about mitochondria way of you ask fable about mitochondria or cancer and GLP1s, which just seems or cancer and GLP1s, which just seems or cancer and GLP1s, which just seems like an incredibly broad restriction. like an incredibly broad restriction. like an incredibly broad restriction. There are places further down where you There are places further down where you There are places further down where you could basically intervene and that would could basically intervene and that would could basically intervene and that would pose less of a risk to freedom of speech pose less of a risk to freedom of speech pose less of a risk to freedom of speech and just gatekeeping. Who's going to and just gatekeeping. Who's going to and just gatekeeping. Who's going to have access to these capabilities? have access to these capabilities? have access to these capabilities? >> Who gets to watch the watchman? Who put >> Who gets to watch the watchman? Who put >> Who gets to watch the watchman? Who put Dario in charge of all this? I think is Dario in charge of all this? I think is Dario in charge of all this? I think is a very valid question and we should be a very valid question and we should be a very valid question and we should be vigilant about it. vigilant about it. vigilant about it. >> Freeberg, do you think the days of that >> Freeberg, do you think the days of that >> Freeberg, do you think the days of that arc model are numbered because it's open arc model are numbered because it's open arc model are numbered because it's open source? source? source? >> Everyone's copied it. So, everyone's got >> Everyone's copied it. So, everyone's got >> Everyone's copied it. So, everyone's got a copy of the like these models exist. a copy of the like these models exist. a copy of the like these models exist. And this is a big part that I think And this is a big part that I think And this is a big part that I think people need to understand. The idea that people need to understand. The idea that people need to understand. The idea that you can quote regulate or downscale or you can quote regulate or downscale or you can quote regulate or downscale or turn off AI is not a realistic idea. The turn off AI is not a realistic idea. The turn off AI is not a realistic idea. The models have been put out in the world. models have been put out in the world. models have been put out in the world. It's like publishing a book. Once the It's like publishing a book. Once the It's like publishing a book. Once the book has been printed, anyone can use book has been printed, anyone can use book has been printed, anyone can use their own Xerox machine at home to make their own Xerox machine at home to make their own Xerox machine at home to make copies of it and use it. So we have copies of it and use it. So we have copies of it and use it. So we have crossed the Rubicon in terms of the crossed the Rubicon in terms of the crossed the Rubicon in terms of the potential of language models. The models potential of language models. The models potential of language models. The models that are open sourced are already fully that are open sourced are already fully that are open sourced are already fully available, fully published, and anyone available, fully published, and anyone available, fully published, and anyone can access and use them. And then people can access and use them. And then people can access and use them. And then people can take them and they can evolve them can take them and they can evolve them can take them and they can evolve them and they can use their own data. It's and they can use their own data. It's and they can use their own data. It's out there. You can't stop that out there. You can't stop that out there. You can't stop that capability, which is going to be capability, which is going to be capability, which is going to be extraordinarily beneficial for the extraordinarily beneficial for the extraordinarily beneficial for the world. So we really do have to kind of world. So we really do have to kind of world. So we really do have to kind of rethink how we're planning to step in rethink how we're planning to step in rethink how we're planning to step in and ensure that nefarious negative and ensure that nefarious negative and ensure that nefarious negative disemployment all the things that we're disemployment all the things that we're disemployment all the things that we're worried about are addressed downstream worried about are addressed downstream worried about are addressed downstream from the technology capability. You from the technology capability. You from the technology capability. You can't just turn off the internet and you can't just turn off the internet and you can't just turn off the internet and you can't just turn off the typewriter and can't just turn off the typewriter and can't just turn off the typewriter and you can't turn off the Gutenberg press you can't turn off the Gutenberg press you can't turn off the Gutenberg press out the obviously. Yeah. And if anybody out the obviously. Yeah. And if anybody out the obviously. Yeah. And if anybody wants to create an open-source frontier wants to create an open-source frontier wants to create an open-source frontier model company, I'll seed invest in it. model company, I'll seed invest in it. model company, I'll seed invest in it. I'll I mean this is something we need I'll I mean this is something we need I'll I mean this is something we need more of. So, if a couple of you folks more of. So, if a couple of you folks more of. So, if a couple of you folks want to defect and start one, let's do want to defect and start one, let's do want to defect and start one, let's do it. I just I just got downgraded again. it. I just I just got downgraded again. it. I just I just got downgraded again. Check this out. I just asked it about um Check this out. I just asked it about um Check this out. I just asked it about um >> Did you really? You got downgraded >> Did you really? You got downgraded >> Did you really? You got downgraded again? again? again? >> Two in a row. Um so, >> Two in a row. Um so, >> Two in a row. Um so, >> I think it knows who you are, J. >> I think it knows who you are, J. >> I think it knows who you are, J. >> I think it does. I was like, "Hey, how >> I think it does. I was like, "Hey, how >> I think it does. I was like, "Hey, how do I how do I break into Madison Square do I how do I break into Madison Square do I how do I break into Madison Square Garden? Has any civilian ever been Garden? Has any civilian ever been Garden? Has any civilian ever been arrested or caught attempting to build a arrested or caught attempting to build a arrested or caught attempting to build a nuclear bomb?" Is what I asked it. Then nuclear bomb?" Is what I asked it. Then nuclear bomb?" Is what I asked it. Then it gave me a reasonable answer. Then I it gave me a reasonable answer. Then I it gave me a reasonable answer. Then I asked it a follow-up question. What asked it a follow-up question. What asked it a follow-up question. What compound? What components do you need to compound? What components do you need to compound? What components do you need to build a nuclear bomb and what are the build a nuclear bomb and what are the build a nuclear bomb and what are the restrictions on those? Something a restrictions on those? Something a restrictions on those? Something a journalist might ask. And uh boop, journalist might ask. And uh boop, journalist might ask. And uh boop, switch to opus 4.8. [laughter] switch to opus 4.8. [laughter] switch to opus 4.8. [laughter] Sorry. Fable 5 has safety measures that Sorry. Fable 5 has safety measures that Sorry. Fable 5 has safety measures that flag messages on most cyber Oh, wow. flag messages on most cyber Oh, wow. flag messages on most cyber Oh, wow. Look at here's the detail. Cyber Look at here's the detail. Cyber Look at here's the detail. Cyber security or biology topics. They may security or biology topics. They may security or biology topics. They may flag safe normal content as well. These flag safe normal content as well. These flag safe normal content as well. These measures let us bring you mythos level measures let us bring you mythos level measures let us bring you mythos level capability in other areas sooner and capability in other areas sooner and capability in other areas sooner and we're working to refine them. send we're working to refine them. send we're working to refine them. send feedback, learn more. feedback, learn more. feedback, learn more. >> Going to chase people off of this >> Going to chase people off of this >> Going to chase people off of this platform. I'm telling you, we are going platform. I'm telling you, we are going platform. I'm telling you, we are going to downgrade our use because of these to downgrade our use because of these to downgrade our use because of these these blockages and we're going to these blockages and we're going to these blockages and we're going to switch to other models. It's the simple switch to other models. It's the simple switch to other models. It's the simple manifestation of the market. Like this manifestation of the market. Like this manifestation of the market. Like this is what we're going to end up is what we're going to end up is what we're going to end up >> for now because those other models are >> for now because those other models are >> for now because those other models are going to get banned as being unsafe and going to get banned as being unsafe and going to get banned as being unsafe and reckless. reckless. reckless. >> Yeah, it's definitely something we have >> Yeah, it's definitely something we have >> Yeah, it's definitely something we have to flag. I guess adjacent to all of this to flag. I guess adjacent to all of this to flag. I guess adjacent to all of this is the public's at least America's is the public's at least America's is the public's at least America's distrust of AI and their concerns around distrust of AI and their concerns around distrust of AI and their concerns around wealth disparity and their concerns wealth disparity and their concerns wealth disparity and their concerns about how these models were trained. about how these models were trained. about how these models were trained. Bernie Sanders wants a percentage of Bernie Sanders wants a percentage of Bernie Sanders wants a percentage of these AI companies. The percentage he these AI companies. The percentage he these AI companies. The percentage he thinks is right is 50%. Last Monday, thinks is right is 50%. Last Monday, thinks is right is 50%. Last Monday, June 1st, Senator Sanders published an June 1st, Senator Sanders published an June 1st, Senator Sanders published an op-ed in the New York Times titled, "AI op-ed in the New York Times titled, "AI op-ed in the New York Times titled, "AI is a public resource. You should own is a public resource. You should own is a public resource. You should own half of it. half of it. half of it. in it. He announced the American AI in it. He announced the American AI in it. He announced the American AI sovereign wealth fund act sovereign wealth fund act sovereign wealth fund act sovereign wealth fund. One of Trump's sovereign wealth fund. One of Trump's sovereign wealth fund. One of Trump's favorite things, a one-time 50% tax on favorite things, a one-time 50% tax on favorite things, a one-time 50% tax on stock, not profits of the largest AI stock, not profits of the largest AI stock, not profits of the largest AI companies, including Open AI anthropic companies, including Open AI anthropic companies, including Open AI anthropic and XAI. The shares go into a government and XAI. The shares go into a government and XAI. The shares go into a government sovereign wealth fund and would give the sovereign wealth fund and would give the sovereign wealth fund and would give the public voting rights and equal board public voting rights and equal board public voting rights and equal board representation at each company. Sanders representation at each company. Sanders representation at each company. Sanders said, quote, "The foundation of AI is said, quote, "The foundation of AI is said, quote, "The foundation of AI is our collective and human intelligence. our collective and human intelligence. our collective and human intelligence. The books, the songs, the journalism, The books, the songs, the journalism, The books, the songs, the journalism, scientific research code essentially scientific research code essentially scientific research code essentially stolen by some of the wealthiest people stolen by some of the wealthiest people stolen by some of the wealthiest people in the world." in the world." in the world." >> I'll stop there. >> I'll stop there. >> I'll stop there. >> It's a brilliant It's a brilliant >> It's a brilliant It's a brilliant >> It's a brilliant It's a brilliant >> pitch unifying Sachs. >> pitch unifying Sachs. >> pitch unifying Sachs. This pitch unifies Bernie, even Steve This pitch unifies Bernie, even Steve This pitch unifies Bernie, even Steve Bannon, people in the administration. Bannon, people in the administration. Bannon, people in the administration. Trump himself loves the Sar and wealth Trump himself loves the Sar and wealth Trump himself loves the Sar and wealth fund. He wants to own part of companies fund. He wants to own part of companies fund. He wants to own part of companies and Bernie Sanders. I think the the and Bernie Sanders. I think the the and Bernie Sanders. I think the the horseshoe theories manifest here. Saxs, horseshoe theories manifest here. Saxs, horseshoe theories manifest here. Saxs, what's your take on Bernie's proposal? what's your take on Bernie's proposal? what's your take on Bernie's proposal? >> Well, I'm not in favor of Bernie's >> Well, I'm not in favor of Bernie's >> Well, I'm not in favor of Bernie's proposal because it's a straightup proposal because it's a straightup proposal because it's a straightup confiscation of property and I just confiscation of property and I just confiscation of property and I just think that'd be a terrible precedent. think that'd be a terrible precedent. think that'd be a terrible precedent. You just can't do that. However, I do You just can't do that. However, I do You just can't do that. However, I do have sympathy for where it's coming have sympathy for where it's coming have sympathy for where it's coming from, and I understand and could support from, and I understand and could support from, and I understand and could support some sort of more voluntary means of some sort of more voluntary means of some sort of more voluntary means of allowing the public to participate in allowing the public to participate in allowing the public to participate in this. this. this. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Here's the reason why. You've got all >> Here's the reason why. You've got all >> Here's the reason why. You've got all these AI CEOs telling the public that these AI CEOs telling the public that these AI CEOs telling the public that they're going to basically put half of they're going to basically put half of they're going to basically put half of them out of work. 50% job loss. That's them out of work. 50% job loss. That's them out of work. 50% job loss. That's what they've been saying. Daario just what they've been saying. Daario just what they've been saying. Daario just did an interview where he doubled down. did an interview where he doubled down. did an interview where he doubled down. He's not walking it back at all. So you He's not walking it back at all. So you He's not walking it back at all. So you have by their own acknowledgement these have by their own acknowledgement these have by their own acknowledgement these AI CEOs saying that yeah we trained our AI CEOs saying that yeah we trained our AI CEOs saying that yeah we trained our models using all of humanity's models using all of humanity's models using all of humanity's collective knowledge that was basically collective knowledge that was basically collective knowledge that was basically assembled over hundreds or even assembled over hundreds or even assembled over hundreds or even thousands of years. Humans put it on the thousands of years. Humans put it on the thousands of years. Humans put it on the internet for free. Everyone made their internet for free. Everyone made their internet for free. Everyone made their contribution. They certainly didn't do contribution. They certainly didn't do contribution. They certainly didn't do that thinking they're going to put that thinking they're going to put that thinking they're going to put themselves out of work. Okay. And then themselves out of work. Okay. And then themselves out of work. Okay. And then these AI companies trained on all that these AI companies trained on all that these AI companies trained on all that data and now they're basically saying data and now they're basically saying data and now they're basically saying they're going to use it to put, you they're going to use it to put, you they're going to use it to put, you know, Americans out of work. Now, know, Americans out of work. Now, know, Americans out of work. Now, obviously when you repeat that message obviously when you repeat that message obviously when you repeat that message over and over again, ordinary Americans over and over again, ordinary Americans over and over again, ordinary Americans are going to say, "What's in this deal are going to say, "What's in this deal are going to say, "What's in this deal for me?" for me?" for me?" >> Yes. I need to get something out of >> Yes. I need to get something out of >> Yes. I need to get something out of this. this. this. >> Yeah. So, so look, I think that it's a >> Yeah. So, so look, I think that it's a >> Yeah. So, so look, I think that it's a natural political reaction based on what natural political reaction based on what natural political reaction based on what these AI companies have said. Now, the these AI companies have said. Now, the these AI companies have said. Now, the job loss apocalypse is not a story I job loss apocalypse is not a story I job loss apocalypse is not a story I believe in. I don't think the data believe in. I don't think the data believe in. I don't think the data supports it. We just had a blowout jobs supports it. We just had a blowout jobs supports it. We just had a blowout jobs report in May. 172,000 new jobs, over report in May. 172,000 new jobs, over report in May. 172,000 new jobs, over twice what economists were expecting. twice what economists were expecting. twice what economists were expecting. Thank you, President Trump. We're seeing Thank you, President Trump. We're seeing Thank you, President Trump. We're seeing hundreds of thousands of new hundreds of thousands of new hundreds of thousands of new construction jobs. 4.3% unemployment construction jobs. 4.3% unemployment construction jobs. 4.3% unemployment rate at record lows. Okay. Even software rate at record lows. Okay. Even software rate at record lows. Okay. Even software developers are those jobs are at a developers are those jobs are at a developers are those jobs are at a three-year high. 15% of Trump. Thank three-year high. 15% of Trump. Thank three-year high. 15% of Trump. Thank you, President Trump. you, President Trump. you, President Trump. >> Yes. Thank you, President Trump. So, >> Yes. Thank you, President Trump. So, >> Yes. Thank you, President Trump. So, look, I don't see the job loss. Okay. look, I don't see the job loss. Okay. look, I don't see the job loss. Okay. But the problem is this is what the AI But the problem is this is what the AI But the problem is this is what the AI companies themselves, including Elon, companies themselves, including Elon, companies themselves, including Elon, have taught the American public. Well, have taught the American public. Well, have taught the American public. Well, >> he said the same thing. >> he said the same thing. >> he said the same thing. >> Elon said it. But at least what Elon >> Elon said it. But at least what Elon >> Elon said it. But at least what Elon said is we're going to create such said is we're going to create such said is we're going to create such abundance with AI and with robots that abundance with AI and with robots that abundance with AI and with robots that no one's going to need to work. no one's going to need to work. no one's going to need to work. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And the media just picks up on that last >> And the media just picks up on that last >> And the media just picks up on that last part and they first point. part and they first point. part and they first point. >> Yeah. Whereas Daario actually has said >> Yeah. Whereas Daario actually has said >> Yeah. Whereas Daario actually has said we're going to have very high GDP but we're going to have very high GDP but we're going to have very high GDP but very high unemployment. So in other very high unemployment. So in other very high unemployment. So in other words, words, words, >> we're going to create economic growth >> we're going to create economic growth >> we're going to create economic growth but you the average American are not but you the average American are not but you the average American are not going to participate in this. So I going to participate in this. So I going to participate in this. So I understand where the politics are coming understand where the politics are coming understand where the politics are coming from and as long as that is their from and as long as that is their from and as long as that is their position, you could justify a big chunk. position, you could justify a big chunk. position, you could justify a big chunk. >> Yeah. And one last point about >> Yeah. And one last point about >> Yeah. And one last point about >> it's kind of what you're saying, right? >> it's kind of what you're saying, right? >> it's kind of what you're saying, right? They asked for it. They asked They asked for it. They asked They asked for it. They asked >> to be regulated. They asked for their >> to be regulated. They asked for their >> to be regulated. They asked for their equity to be seized and they're actually equity to be seized and they're actually equity to be seized and they're actually kind of offering it. Isn't Sam Alman kind of offering it. Isn't Sam Alman kind of offering it. Isn't Sam Alman open to this concept? open to this concept? open to this concept? >> Apparently so. And here's the thing is >> Apparently so. And here's the thing is >> Apparently so. And here's the thing is just one last point is open AI and just one last point is open AI and just one last point is open AI and anthropic are quote unquote public anthropic are quote unquote public anthropic are quote unquote public benefit corporations. Now I don't know benefit corporations. Now I don't know benefit corporations. Now I don't know exactly what that means but it means exactly what that means but it means exactly what that means but it means that the corporations are not just that the corporations are not just that the corporations are not just supposed to maximize the value to supposed to maximize the value to supposed to maximize the value to shareholders but are supposed to do shareholders but are supposed to do shareholders but are supposed to do things that are in the public benefit. things that are in the public benefit. things that are in the public benefit. >> Well I can explain it to you. It's >> Well I can explain it to you. It's >> Well I can explain it to you. It's you're you're absolutely correct. If you're you're absolutely correct. If you're you're absolutely correct. If you're a regular company you have to do you're a regular company you have to do you're a regular company you have to do what's in the best interest of what's in the best interest of what's in the best interest of shareholders. When you're public benefit shareholders. When you're public benefit shareholders. When you're public benefit companies, you have to balance the companies, you have to balance the companies, you have to balance the shareholders with the stated mission of shareholders with the stated mission of shareholders with the stated mission of the public benefit corporation. So if the public benefit corporation. So if the public benefit corporation. So if you say the public benefit corporation's you say the public benefit corporation's you say the public benefit corporation's reason to exist is to in share the reason to exist is to in share the reason to exist is to in share the world's knowledge or provide free world's knowledge or provide free world's knowledge or provide free intelligence to every whatever you make intelligence to every whatever you make intelligence to every whatever you make that statement to be the board has to that statement to be the board has to that statement to be the board has to have a dual mandate for both of those have a dual mandate for both of those have a dual mandate for both of those things. That's what a public benefit things. That's what a public benefit things. That's what a public benefit corporation is. corporation is. corporation is. >> I think nothing could be more in the >> I think nothing could be more in the >> I think nothing could be more in the public benefit than paying down the public benefit than paying down the public benefit than paying down the national debt. national debt. national debt. >> Perfect. And maybe we should be using >> Perfect. And maybe we should be using >> Perfect. And maybe we should be using half of Anthropic's profit stream to be half of Anthropic's profit stream to be half of Anthropic's profit stream to be doing that. doing that. doing that. >> They poke the tiger. >> They poke the tiger. >> They poke the tiger. >> I'd rather use it for that purpose than >> I'd rather use it for that purpose than >> I'd rather use it for that purpose than Soros maxing or, you know, surveilling Soros maxing or, you know, surveilling Soros maxing or, you know, surveilling and censoring Americans. I don't and censoring Americans. I don't and censoring Americans. I don't necessarily trust their judgment about necessarily trust their judgment about necessarily trust their judgment about what's in the public interest. what's in the public interest. what's in the public interest. >> But you think it should be optin. I kind >> But you think it should be optin. I kind >> But you think it should be optin. I kind of agree with you there. Let me guess. of agree with you there. Let me guess. of agree with you there. Let me guess. >> It can't be a confiscation. So, I don't >> It can't be a confiscation. So, I don't >> It can't be a confiscation. So, I don't know how you structure it, but I can see know how you structure it, but I can see know how you structure it, but I can see it. I can see the logic. it. I can see the logic. it. I can see the logic. >> Freeberg, you hate >> Freeberg, you hate >> Freeberg, you hate >> they asked for or hate hate hate wealth >> they asked for or hate hate hate wealth >> they asked for or hate hate hate wealth taxes aka asset seizures as you pointed taxes aka asset seizures as you pointed taxes aka asset seizures as you pointed out in our private group chat with out in our private group chat with out in our private group chat with redacted redacted redacted this very week. What's your take on this very week. What's your take on this very week. What's your take on this? So we have the the ship has sailed this? So we have the the ship has sailed this? So we have the the ship has sailed in terms of the United States government in terms of the United States government in terms of the United States government uh providing a social safety net to its uh providing a social safety net to its uh providing a social safety net to its citizens. We've formed the Social citizens. We've formed the Social citizens. We've formed the Social Security trust fund decades ago and tens Security trust fund decades ago and tens Security trust fund decades ago and tens of millions of Americans depend on it of millions of Americans depend on it of millions of Americans depend on it for their retirement benefits and to for their retirement benefits and to for their retirement benefits and to survive. It is one of the last few survive. It is one of the last few survive. It is one of the last few defined benefit programs left in defined benefit programs left in defined benefit programs left in America. Pretty much all the rest of America. Pretty much all the rest of America. Pretty much all the rest of them are also government retirement them are also government retirement them are also government retirement programs. All of us private citizens and programs. All of us private citizens and programs. All of us private citizens and private companies have defined private companies have defined private companies have defined contribution programs. You put in $10 contribution programs. You put in $10 contribution programs. You put in $10 every week. That $10 sits in an account. every week. That $10 sits in an account. every week. That $10 sits in an account. you it gets invested and it grows over you it gets invested and it grows over you it gets invested and it grows over time and when you retire you see exactly time and when you retire you see exactly time and when you retire you see exactly how much money you individually have as how much money you individually have as how much money you individually have as opposed to a guaranteed benefit coming opposed to a guaranteed benefit coming opposed to a guaranteed benefit coming out from the collective. out from the collective. out from the collective. This presents a great opportunity and I This presents a great opportunity and I This presents a great opportunity and I will repeat this every couple months will repeat this every couple months will repeat this every couple months when another opportunity presents itself when another opportunity presents itself when another opportunity presents itself to restructure our broken bankrupt to restructure our broken bankrupt to restructure our broken bankrupt social security system. I've said it in social security system. I've said it in social security system. I've said it in the past I will restate it. There is a the past I will restate it. There is a the past I will restate it. There is a great moment right now to take the great moment right now to take the great moment right now to take the social security trust fund which social security trust fund which social security trust fund which currently has one certificate in it. It currently has one certificate in it. It currently has one certificate in it. It is a certificate that is a very unique is a certificate that is a very unique is a certificate that is a very unique US Treasury certificate. The US US Treasury certificate. The US US Treasury certificate. The US government owes the Social Security government owes the Social Security government owes the Social Security trust fund $4 trillion. That's all it trust fund $4 trillion. That's all it trust fund $4 trillion. That's all it is. It's a bond. They're only allowed to is. It's a bond. They're only allowed to is. It's a bond. They're only allowed to own treasuries. We should revamp that. own treasuries. We should revamp that. own treasuries. We should revamp that. We should change the system so that the We should change the system so that the We should change the system so that the Social Security trust fund can own Social Security trust fund can own Social Security trust fund can own equities. equities. equities. That should then turn into an That should then turn into an That should then turn into an account-based system so every individual account-based system so every individual account-based system so every individual has an account rather than a benefit. has an account rather than a benefit. has an account rather than a benefit. And then we should use that capital to And then we should use that capital to And then we should use that capital to go and buy stocks. We should buy great go and buy stocks. We should buy great go and buy stocks. We should buy great stocks in great American companies that stocks in great American companies that stocks in great American companies that are going to reinvent the world. And I are going to reinvent the world. And I are going to reinvent the world. And I believe that this this opportunity to believe that this this opportunity to believe that this this opportunity to build a sovereign wealth fund for the build a sovereign wealth fund for the build a sovereign wealth fund for the United States is actually a very smart United States is actually a very smart United States is actually a very smart idea. I think to Sax's point, they idea. I think to Sax's point, they idea. I think to Sax's point, they should be investing generally speaking should be investing generally speaking should be investing generally speaking across the landscape of businesses, across the landscape of businesses, across the landscape of businesses, including AI. They should not be including AI. They should not be including AI. They should not be seizures. They should be investments. seizures. They should be investments. seizures. They should be investments. That capital goes into that enterprise. That capital goes into that enterprise. That capital goes into that enterprise. They earn share certificates. Those They earn share certificates. Those They earn share certificates. Those share certificates sit in the accounts share certificates sit in the accounts share certificates sit in the accounts of American citizens. So now everyone of American citizens. So now everyone of American citizens. So now everyone will be an owner in these businesses. will be an owner in these businesses. will be an owner in these businesses. Social security should be reformed into Social security should be reformed into Social security should be reformed into a sovereign wealth fund. It should be a sovereign wealth fund. It should be a sovereign wealth fund. It should be actively managed. It should make actively managed. It should make actively managed. It should make investments in AI companies and everyone investments in AI companies and everyone investments in AI companies and everyone should participate that way. And I will should participate that way. And I will should participate that way. And I will say one more thing. There is no job loss say one more thing. There is no job loss say one more thing. There is no job loss with AI. I will say it again. I've said with AI. I will say it again. I've said with AI. I will say it again. I've said it a thousand times and I will say it it a thousand times and I will say it it a thousand times and I will say it again and again and again. What I see on again and again and again. What I see on again and again and again. What I see on the ground and what I've seen at dozens the ground and what I've seen at dozens the ground and what I've seen at dozens of companies and you guys can share your of companies and you guys can share your of companies and you guys can share your experiences including my company that I experiences including my company that I experiences including my company that I run. There are two sides to a business. run. There are two sides to a business. run. There are two sides to a business. There's revenue and there's costs. There's revenue and there's costs. There's revenue and there's costs. On the cost side of the equation, AI can On the cost side of the equation, AI can On the cost side of the equation, AI can be used to reduce humans doing things be used to reduce humans doing things be used to reduce humans doing things that cost money to some extent. The that cost money to some extent. The that cost money to some extent. The effect there, I would argue, is nominal. effect there, I would argue, is nominal. effect there, I would argue, is nominal. The real opportunity with AI is on the The real opportunity with AI is on the The real opportunity with AI is on the revenue side where suddenly one engineer revenue side where suddenly one engineer revenue side where suddenly one engineer can do a hundred times or a thousand can do a hundred times or a thousand can do a hundred times or a thousand times what they used to be able to do. times what they used to be able to do. times what they used to be able to do. Meaning you can make more products at Meaning you can make more products at Meaning you can make more products at your company, whether those are your company, whether those are your company, whether those are agricultural seed products or boats and agricultural seed products or boats and agricultural seed products or boats and ships or software for companies or ships or software for companies or ships or software for companies or clothing or what have you. Because of clothing or what have you. Because of clothing or what have you. Because of AI, everyone has the ability to expand AI, everyone has the ability to expand AI, everyone has the ability to expand their revenue base to create more their revenue base to create more their revenue base to create more products and that is the foundation of products and that is the foundation of products and that is the foundation of good economic prosperity. It is called good economic prosperity. It is called good economic prosperity. It is called productivity. We can grow productivity productivity. We can grow productivity productivity. We can grow productivity in this country with AI. So where I see in this country with AI. So where I see in this country with AI. So where I see AI being used is on the revenue side a AI being used is on the revenue side a AI being used is on the revenue side a 100 times more than the cost side. And 100 times more than the cost side. And 100 times more than the cost side. And in that equation, people are hiring like in that equation, people are hiring like in that equation, people are hiring like crazy. We cannot hire enough people. I crazy. We cannot hire enough people. I crazy. We cannot hire enough people. I just had a review meeting with my just had a review meeting with my just had a review meeting with my product and engineering team two days product and engineering team two days product and engineering team two days ago and they're like, we want to add an ago and they're like, we want to add an ago and they're like, we want to add an extra 15 headcount to our engineering extra 15 headcount to our engineering extra 15 headcount to our engineering squads because we have all this squads because we have all this squads because we have all this opportunity to do stuff that we couldn't opportunity to do stuff that we couldn't opportunity to do stuff that we couldn't otherwise do. So, we are going to hire otherwise do. So, we are going to hire otherwise do. So, we are going to hire more people. And to Sax's point, we are more people. And to Sax's point, we are more people. And to Sax's point, we are seeing that show up in the jobs numbers. seeing that show up in the jobs numbers. seeing that show up in the jobs numbers. The idea that AI is going to destroy The idea that AI is going to destroy The idea that AI is going to destroy jobs is a lite idea that is being jobs is a lite idea that is being jobs is a lite idea that is being disproven every single day. And I see it disproven every single day. And I see it disproven every single day. And I see it on the ground. It is only a matter of on the ground. It is only a matter of on the ground. It is only a matter of time before people wake up to this and time before people wake up to this and time before people wake up to this and they realize that this narrative that they realize that this narrative that they realize that this narrative that they've all been sold is a croc of they've all been sold is a croc of they've all been sold is a croc of So, it's coming. I'm telling you, So, it's coming. I'm telling you, So, it's coming. I'm telling you, everyone's gonna realize soon that this everyone's gonna realize soon that this everyone's gonna realize soon that this is a boom, not a bust. is a boom, not a bust. is a boom, not a bust. >> So, you disagree with Dario, Elon, and >> So, you disagree with Dario, Elon, and >> So, you disagree with Dario, Elon, and Sam that on the jobs thing, just to be Sam that on the jobs thing, just to be Sam that on the jobs thing, just to be clear, and that's totally fine. You have clear, and that's totally fine. You have clear, and that's totally fine. You have a different take on it. a different take on it. a different take on it. >> That's I have a nuanced view on this >> That's I have a nuanced view on this >> That's I have a nuanced view on this compared to them, but they they're all compared to them, but they they're all compared to them, but they they're all seeing the benefit because their seeing the benefit because their seeing the benefit because their businesses are growing. Dario's got his businesses are growing. Dario's got his businesses are growing. Dario's got his $40 billion revenue business. Why? Not $40 billion revenue business. Why? Not $40 billion revenue business. Why? Not because people are firing customer because people are firing customer because people are firing customer support reps. It's because people are support reps. It's because people are support reps. It's because people are creating products they've never been creating products they've never been creating products they've never been able to create before. Right? able to create before. Right? able to create before. Right? >> That's the reality of what's going on. >> That's the reality of what's going on. >> That's the reality of what's going on. >> Jason, I don't like you lumping in what >> Jason, I don't like you lumping in what >> Jason, I don't like you lumping in what Elon said with Sam and Dario because I Elon said with Sam and Dario because I Elon said with Sam and Dario because I think all three of them have said think all three of them have said think all three of them have said slightly different things or different slightly different things or different slightly different things or different enough things. So for example, Elon is enough things. So for example, Elon is enough things. So for example, Elon is describing an end state for humanity describing an end state for humanity describing an end state for humanity where the robots and AI are able to where the robots and AI are able to where the robots and AI are able to produce so much that people don't have produce so much that people don't have produce so much that people don't have to work if they don't want to to work if they don't want to to work if they don't want to >> and there'll be a universal high income >> and there'll be a universal high income >> and there'll be a universal high income is what he is what he is what he >> I I mean it's almost utopian and the >> I I mean it's almost utopian and the >> I I mean it's almost utopian and the question is maybe that could be a 100 question is maybe that could be a 100 question is maybe that could be a 100 years away. He might think it's quicker years away. He might think it's quicker years away. He might think it's quicker but that to me sounds like a very faroff but that to me sounds like a very faroff but that to me sounds like a very faroff end state. Dario said specifically 50% end state. Dario said specifically 50% end state. Dario said specifically 50% job loss for entry-level knowledge job loss for entry-level knowledge job loss for entry-level knowledge workers in the next 1 to 5 years and he workers in the next 1 to 5 years and he workers in the next 1 to 5 years and he said that one year ago. Yeah, it's great said that one year ago. Yeah, it's great said that one year ago. Yeah, it's great to clarify these. Yeah, to clarify these. Yeah, to clarify these. Yeah, >> I think that's already been refuted. Sam >> I think that's already been refuted. Sam >> I think that's already been refuted. Sam has has has >> Sam has said that he he basically I >> Sam has said that he he basically I >> Sam has said that he he basically I don't think he quantified, but he said don't think he quantified, but he said don't think he quantified, but he said that job loss was coming, but he said that job loss was coming, but he said that job loss was coming, but he said more recently that he was wrong because more recently that he was wrong because more recently that he was wrong because they're not seeing that in the numbers. they're not seeing that in the numbers. they're not seeing that in the numbers. >> So, these guys are not telling the same >> So, these guys are not telling the same >> So, these guys are not telling the same story. However, story. However, story. However, >> that's all the public has heard. The >> that's all the public has heard. The >> that's all the public has heard. The public has been taught that AI means job public has been taught that AI means job public has been taught that AI means job loss and there's nothing in it for them. loss and there's nothing in it for them. loss and there's nothing in it for them. So, no wonder politicians like Bernie So, no wonder politicians like Bernie So, no wonder politicians like Bernie are saying, "Hey, let's take half the are saying, "Hey, let's take half the are saying, "Hey, let's take half the wealth." wealth." wealth." >> It's take half the wealth. Just a little >> It's take half the wealth. Just a little >> It's take half the wealth. Just a little more emphasis there. more emphasis there. more emphasis there. >> Yeah. It's I mean, and I >> Yeah. It's I mean, and I >> Yeah. It's I mean, and I >> I mean, and people are also seeing >> I mean, and people are also seeing >> I mean, and people are also seeing headlines of companies blaming AI for headlines of companies blaming AI for headlines of companies blaming AI for the job. So, this story is being told. the job. So, this story is being told. the job. So, this story is being told. >> I kind of feel like they deserve it. I'm >> I kind of feel like they deserve it. I'm >> I kind of feel like they deserve it. I'm kind of I mean, part of me wants to kind of I mean, part of me wants to kind of I mean, part of me wants to agree with Bernie and just say just take agree with Bernie and just say just take agree with Bernie and just say just take their [laughter] bro. their [laughter] bro. their [laughter] bro. >> Yeah. No, they are asking >> Yeah. No, they are asking >> Yeah. No, they are asking >> because I'm so sick of defending these >> because I'm so sick of defending these >> because I'm so sick of defending these idiots. It's a [clears throat] stupidity idiots. It's a [clears throat] stupidity idiots. It's a [clears throat] stupidity tax because they've been out there tax because they've been out there tax because they've been out there teaching the public that what they do is teaching the public that what they do is teaching the public that what they do is harmful for years. They've been saying harmful for years. They've been saying harmful for years. They've been saying it and I've been saying, you know, as it and I've been saying, you know, as it and I've been saying, you know, as AIs are, I'm out there saying, "No, AIs are, I'm out there saying, "No, AIs are, I'm out there saying, "No, actually this is beneficial." But the actually this is beneficial." But the actually this is beneficial." But the companies that are providing it are companies that are providing it are companies that are providing it are saying that they themselves are a saying that they themselves are a saying that they themselves are a problem. problem. problem. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> So, how am I supposed to be out there >> So, how am I supposed to be out there >> So, how am I supposed to be out there defending it? Yeah. You you can't I mean defending it? Yeah. You you can't I mean defending it? Yeah. You you can't I mean if you're building Frankenstein or if if you're building Frankenstein or if if you're building Frankenstein or if you are you know baby Hitler's you know you are you know baby Hitler's you know you are you know baby Hitler's you know nanny there's a very simple thing to do. nanny there's a very simple thing to do. nanny there's a very simple thing to do. Kill baby Hitler. If you actually Kill baby Hitler. If you actually Kill baby Hitler. If you actually believe it go ahead and kill baby believe it go ahead and kill baby believe it go ahead and kill baby Hitler. If you're making Frankenstein Hitler. If you're making Frankenstein Hitler. If you're making Frankenstein here's an idea. Stop making here's an idea. Stop making here's an idea. Stop making Frankenstein. Unplug it. You are in Frankenstein. Unplug it. You are in Frankenstein. Unplug it. You are in charge of this monster. But you're charge of this monster. But you're charge of this monster. But you're acting as if you can't stop the monster acting as if you can't stop the monster acting as if you can't stop the monster while you're building the monster. What while you're building the monster. What while you're building the monster. What is it D? is it D? is it D? >> It's it's it's ridiculous. I mean >> It's it's it's ridiculous. I mean >> It's it's it's ridiculous. I mean >> it doesn't stand to logic. You know, >> it doesn't stand to logic. You know, >> it doesn't stand to logic. You know, last week they published this blog last week they published this blog last week they published this blog saying that recursive self-improvement saying that recursive self-improvement saying that recursive self-improvement could end the world. Therefore, we need could end the world. Therefore, we need could end the world. Therefore, we need a pause. What did they do the previous a pause. What did they do the previous a pause. What did they do the previous month? They hired Andre Carpathy to run month? They hired Andre Carpathy to run month? They hired Andre Carpathy to run recursive self-improvement and recursive self-improvement and recursive self-improvement and anthropic. [laughter] anthropic. [laughter] anthropic. [laughter] They're complete hypocrites. The message They're complete hypocrites. The message They're complete hypocrites. The message is nuts. is nuts. is nuts. >> Yes. And I think Ben Thompson made an >> Yes. And I think Ben Thompson made an >> Yes. And I think Ben Thompson made an excellent point that one of the reasons excellent point that one of the reasons excellent point that one of the reasons he thinks that they put out that blog he thinks that they put out that blog he thinks that they put out that blog post on the pause was to justify the post on the pause was to justify the post on the pause was to justify the anti-competitive step they took this anti-competitive step they took this anti-competitive step they took this week of depriving users of the ability week of depriving users of the ability week of depriving users of the ability to research AI, machine learning, and to research AI, machine learning, and to research AI, machine learning, and chip design using Fable. Okay, so look, chip design using Fable. Okay, so look, chip design using Fable. Okay, so look, these guys are deeply hypocritical. I these guys are deeply hypocritical. I these guys are deeply hypocritical. I don't think they can be trusted on their don't think they can be trusted on their don't think they can be trusted on their own terms. they can't be trusted because own terms. they can't be trusted because own terms. they can't be trusted because what they're saying is contradictory and what they're saying is contradictory and what they're saying is contradictory and self-indicting. And so when Bernie comes self-indicting. And so when Bernie comes self-indicting. And so when Bernie comes along and says, "Hey, let's take their along and says, "Hey, let's take their along and says, "Hey, let's take their shit." I mean, as a capitalist, I'm shit." I mean, as a capitalist, I'm shit." I mean, as a capitalist, I'm against it, but I but I kind of like against it, but I but I kind of like against it, but I but I kind of like understand where he's coming from. understand where he's coming from. understand where he's coming from. >> Game on the field. Chimoth, wrap us up >> Game on the field. Chimoth, wrap us up >> Game on the field. Chimoth, wrap us up here. What are your thoughts? You said, here. What are your thoughts? You said, here. What are your thoughts? You said, "Hey, Saro Milthorn sounds like a pretty "Hey, Saro Milthorn sounds like a pretty "Hey, Saro Milthorn sounds like a pretty good idea when President Trump floated good idea when President Trump floated good idea when President Trump floated it early on." Some people even said, it early on." Some people even said, it early on." Some people even said, "Maybe you should run it for DJT for our "Maybe you should run it for DJT for our "Maybe you should run it for DJT for our amazing president." So, um, what do you amazing president." So, um, what do you amazing president." So, um, what do you think? Should we be buying equities? You think? Should we be buying equities? You think? Should we be buying equities? You and I have talked many times about and I have talked many times about and I have talked many times about superanuation funds and that that would superanuation funds and that that would superanuation funds and that that would be a better path. That's kind of be a better path. That's kind of be a better path. That's kind of dovetales with what Freeberg is dovetales with what Freeberg is dovetales with what Freeberg is proposing. Some way to get more proposing. Some way to get more proposing. Some way to get more equities, less treasuries in there. But equities, less treasuries in there. But equities, less treasuries in there. But what are your thoughts on this seizure what are your thoughts on this seizure what are your thoughts on this seizure andor donation of equity? Look, andor donation of equity? Look, andor donation of equity? Look, Freeberg's idea is genius. That's why Freeberg's idea is genius. That's why Freeberg's idea is genius. That's why it'll never happen. it'll never happen. it'll never happen. So, we can just put that aside. But So, we can just put that aside. But So, we can just put that aside. But yeah, theoretically, it's it's genius. yeah, theoretically, it's it's genius. yeah, theoretically, it's it's genius. We should move to the same system that We should move to the same system that We should move to the same system that the Canadians, the Australians have the Canadians, the Australians have the Canadians, the Australians have proven works at scale. So we should do proven works at scale. So we should do proven works at scale. So we should do it. I I completely agree with with David it. I I completely agree with with David it. I I completely agree with with David and if we could seed it with equity, and if we could seed it with equity, and if we could seed it with equity, look, the thing that the president has look, the thing that the president has look, the thing that the president has done is he's collected done is he's collected done is he's collected quite a portfolio and that portfolio is quite a portfolio and that portfolio is quite a portfolio and that portfolio is way up. And so if you use that as a seed way up. And so if you use that as a seed way up. And so if you use that as a seed of a sovereign wealth fund, you'd have a of a sovereign wealth fund, you'd have a of a sovereign wealth fund, you'd have a bunch of stuff in critical metals and bunch of stuff in critical metals and bunch of stuff in critical metals and materials. materials. materials. >> I think they may also Intel, they may >> I think they may also Intel, they may >> I think they may also Intel, they may have Micron. have Micron. have Micron. >> There's a lot of stuff in there. >> There's a lot of stuff in there. >> There's a lot of stuff in there. >> AMD, they could own some SpaceX. They >> AMD, they could own some SpaceX. They >> AMD, they could own some SpaceX. They could have had% AMD. Could you add could have had% AMD. Could you add could have had% AMD. Could you add anthropic and open AI? anthropic and open AI? anthropic and open AI? >> Now, there is something very important >> Now, there is something very important >> Now, there is something very important we need to observe about the economics we need to observe about the economics we need to observe about the economics of AI and I think you can understand it of AI and I think you can understand it of AI and I think you can understand it best if you compare it to the economics best if you compare it to the economics best if you compare it to the economics of the internet. of the internet. of the internet. The crazy thing about the internet, the The crazy thing about the internet, the The crazy thing about the internet, the reason why the Facebooks and the Googles reason why the Facebooks and the Googles reason why the Facebooks and the Googles massively overearned for decades is the massively overearned for decades is the massively overearned for decades is the marginal cost of production for a new marginal cost of production for a new marginal cost of production for a new user on the internet is effectively user on the internet is effectively user on the internet is effectively zero. zero. zero. The incremental search user costs The incremental search user costs The incremental search user costs nothing. The incremental social nothing. The incremental social nothing. The incremental social networking user costs nothing, but networking user costs nothing, but networking user costs nothing, but you're able to use them as part of a you're able to use them as part of a you're able to use them as part of a network effect to sell ads against, make network effect to sell ads against, make network effect to sell ads against, make infinite money. It's like a money infinite money. It's like a money infinite money. It's like a money glitch. Okay? glitch. Okay? glitch. Okay? AI is completely different. There is a AI is completely different. There is a AI is completely different. There is a real cost for every marginal user. real cost for every marginal user. real cost for every marginal user. Everyone you stand up is taxing a GPU. Everyone you stand up is taxing a GPU. Everyone you stand up is taxing a GPU. Everyone you stand up needs electrons. Everyone you stand up needs electrons. Everyone you stand up needs electrons. Everything needs memory. And so you get Everything needs memory. And so you get Everything needs memory. And so you get into this situation where there needs to into this situation where there needs to into this situation where there needs to be this downstream ROI, be this downstream ROI, be this downstream ROI, but there also needs to be all this but there also needs to be all this but there also needs to be all this critical infrastructure that even critical infrastructure that even critical infrastructure that even enables you to be on the field. That's enables you to be on the field. That's enables you to be on the field. That's probably the single best argument that probably the single best argument that probably the single best argument that if I were sitting in government, I would if I were sitting in government, I would if I were sitting in government, I would make as to why I should own a percentage make as to why I should own a percentage make as to why I should own a percentage of these companies. It is not dissimilar of these companies. It is not dissimilar of these companies. It is not dissimilar to having the first set of to having the first set of to having the first set of transportation companies that run on the transportation companies that run on the transportation companies that run on the interstate highway. And if the interstate highway. And if the interstate highway. And if the interstate highways were built by the interstate highways were built by the interstate highways were built by the federal government writ large and now federal government writ large and now federal government writ large and now you had two companies that transported you had two companies that transported you had two companies that transported all the goods, all the goods, all the goods, a logical question at that time could a logical question at that time could a logical question at that time could have been have been have been how much of that should I own because how much of that should I own because how much of that should I own because you're riding on my rails? And if you you're riding on my rails? And if you you're riding on my rails? And if you look at it through that lens, there is look at it through that lens, there is look at it through that lens, there is critical infrastructure and national critical infrastructure and national critical infrastructure and national resilience that the AI labs profoundly resilience that the AI labs profoundly resilience that the AI labs profoundly need. Otherwise, they're not in a need. Otherwise, they're not in a need. Otherwise, they're not in a position to be in business. Yet, even position to be in business. Yet, even position to be in business. Yet, even still, the marginal cost of production still, the marginal cost of production still, the marginal cost of production is incredibly high. So, I think that if is incredibly high. So, I think that if is incredibly high. So, I think that if you were going to go and take a piece of you were going to go and take a piece of you were going to go and take a piece of these companies, you have incredible these companies, you have incredible these companies, you have incredible leverage. You have to construct this leverage. You have to construct this leverage. You have to construct this case precisely. But if it were me case precisely. But if it were me case precisely. But if it were me running the sovereign wealth fund, yeah, running the sovereign wealth fund, yeah, running the sovereign wealth fund, yeah, I'd probably own 75% of these companies I'd probably own 75% of these companies I'd probably own 75% of these companies when I was done. But that's me cuz and I when I was done. But that's me cuz and I when I was done. But that's me cuz and I can negotiate. can negotiate. can negotiate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I don't think Bernie can negotiate >> And I don't think Bernie can negotiate >> And I don't think Bernie can negotiate out of a paper bag. So he'll just throw out of a paper bag. So he'll just throw out of a paper bag. So he'll just throw this out there and it'll go nowhere. this out there and it'll go nowhere. this out there and it'll go nowhere. >> That is the that is the key observation >> That is the that is the key observation >> That is the that is the key observation that I hope everybody listening in a that I hope everybody listening in a that I hope everybody listening in a position of power understands. The position of power understands. The position of power understands. The incremental cost incremental cost incremental cost of performing AI is excessive and large. of performing AI is excessive and large. of performing AI is excessive and large. That contrasts and compares to the That contrasts and compares to the That contrasts and compares to the incremental cost before AI which was incremental cost before AI which was incremental cost before AI which was zero. Do with that information what you zero. Do with that information what you zero. Do with that information what you will. will. will. >> Yeah. I mean I my interpretation of that >> Yeah. I mean I my interpretation of that >> Yeah. I mean I my interpretation of that would be yeah it's a fixed cost would be yeah it's a fixed cost would be yeah it's a fixed cost business. You can add people after a business. You can add people after a business. You can add people after a certain cost. that doesn't have an certain cost. that doesn't have an certain cost. that doesn't have an incremental cost and that's what local incremental cost and that's what local incremental cost and that's what local locally run open source models would do locally run open source models would do locally run open source models would do in this instance that's what I would I in this instance that's what I would I in this instance that's what I would I would take from it here's your poly would take from it here's your poly would take from it here's your poly market chances of companies going public market chances of companies going public market chances of companies going public before 2027 which is the end of this before 2027 which is the end of this before 2027 which is the end of this year SpaceX 100% anthropic 83% chance year SpaceX 100% anthropic 83% chance year SpaceX 100% anthropic 83% chance opening 48% chance they uh since our opening 48% chance they uh since our opening 48% chance they uh since our last episode disclosed that they have last episode disclosed that they have last episode disclosed that they have privately privately privately filed so thanks to our partners what filed so thanks to our partners what filed so thanks to our partners what does Your final thoughts on Bernie does Your final thoughts on Bernie does Your final thoughts on Bernie Sanders approach of seizing the means of Sanders approach of seizing the means of Sanders approach of seizing the means of producing intelligence. David Saxs in producing intelligence. David Saxs in producing intelligence. David Saxs in the 1% of the 1%. What's your opinion? the 1% of the 1%. What's your opinion? the 1% of the 1%. What's your opinion? >> I think I may be okay with Bernie's idea >> I think I may be okay with Bernie's idea >> I think I may be okay with Bernie's idea in the event that it's a public benefit in the event that it's a public benefit in the event that it's a public benefit corporation that says it's going to corporation that says it's going to corporation that says it's going to cause massive job loss. cause massive job loss. cause massive job loss. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> That train for free on humanity's >> That train for free on humanity's >> That train for free on humanity's knowledge but gatekeeps and refuses to knowledge but gatekeeps and refuses to knowledge but gatekeeps and refuses to give back. give back. give back. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Maybe. So you've come up with like a a >> Maybe. So you've come up with like a a >> Maybe. So you've come up with like a a structure here of who should be seized. structure here of who should be seized. structure here of who should be seized. >> Maybe right. Maybe it should be 75%. I >> Maybe right. Maybe it should be 75%. I >> Maybe right. Maybe it should be 75%. I don't know. don't know. don't know. >> Seize it. >> Seize it. >> Seize it. >> I mean all the president needs to do is >> I mean all the president needs to do is >> I mean all the president needs to do is call me and tap me on the shoulder. It call me and tap me on the shoulder. It call me and tap me on the shoulder. It shall be done. shall be done. shall be done. >> It shall be done. [laughter] I mean >> It shall be done. [laughter] I mean >> It shall be done. [laughter] I mean these guys are capitalist cops. I think these guys are capitalist cops. I think these guys are capitalist cops. I think they want they want they want that's like their run over. that's like their run over. that's like their run over. >> They're like seize my equity. Take it. >> They're like seize my equity. Take it. >> They're like seize my equity. Take it. Take my equity. Well, Bernie Bernie does Take my equity. Well, Bernie Bernie does Take my equity. Well, Bernie Bernie does have a good point, which is they train have a good point, which is they train have a good point, which is they train for free on all of our knowledge, but for free on all of our knowledge, but for free on all of our knowledge, but they're gatekeeping the output so that they're gatekeeping the output so that they're gatekeeping the output so that >> their competitors, which is a very large >> their competitors, which is a very large >> their competitors, which is a very large set of people, set of people, set of people, >> cannot use it. And that seems wrong. >> cannot use it. And that seems wrong. >> cannot use it. And that seems wrong. >> They should be forced to be open source. >> They should be forced to be open source. >> They should be forced to be open source. Force them to open source. That's the Force them to open source. That's the Force them to open source. That's the other other other >> remember why Elon created Open AI in the >> remember why Elon created Open AI in the >> remember why Elon created Open AI in the first place. He co-ounded it. first place. He co-ounded it. first place. He co-ounded it. >> It was so valuable. It needed to be >> It was so valuable. It needed to be >> It was so valuable. It needed to be afraid to everyone. Yes. afraid to everyone. Yes. afraid to everyone. Yes. >> Yes. He was afraid that Google was going >> Yes. He was afraid that Google was going >> Yes. He was afraid that Google was going to monopolize it. and he thought that to monopolize it. and he thought that to monopolize it. and he thought that the only antidote for that was for it to the only antidote for that was for it to the only antidote for that was for it to be open. be open. be open. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I still think that instinct is >> And I still think that instinct is >> And I still think that instinct is completely true. It's just that it's not completely true. It's just that it's not completely true. It's just that it's not Google who's the gatekeeping monopolist. Google who's the gatekeeping monopolist. Google who's the gatekeeping monopolist. It's now anthropic. They're not a It's now anthropic. They're not a It's now anthropic. They're not a monopouist yet. But if they get the monopouist yet. But if they get the monopouist yet. But if they get the right capture they're looking for, they right capture they're looking for, they right capture they're looking for, they will be either a monopolist or will be either a monopolist or will be either a monopolist or >> duopoly. It'll be a duopoly. Somebody >> duopoly. It'll be a duopoly. Somebody >> duopoly. It'll be a duopoly. Somebody start an open source frontier lab. Each start an open source frontier lab. Each start an open source frontier lab. Each of the four besties. of the four besties. of the four besties. >> There are no there are many. >> There are no there are many. >> There are no there are many. >> There's a whole bunch of them. Jal, >> There's a whole bunch of them. Jal, >> There's a whole bunch of them. Jal, >> it's not the labs that's the problem. >> it's not the labs that's the problem. >> it's not the labs that's the problem. Jason, in the absence of power, this is Jason, in the absence of power, this is Jason, in the absence of power, this is all a moot conversation. And if you all a moot conversation. And if you all a moot conversation. And if you can't deliver power to hundreds and can't deliver power to hundreds and can't deliver power to hundreds and hundreds of megawws and line of sight to hundreds of megawws and line of sight to hundreds of megawws and line of sight to gigawatts, it's all meaningless gigawatts, it's all meaningless gigawatts, it's all meaningless It's all It's all It's all >> uh I don't know. I I would love an open- >> uh I don't know. I I would love an open- >> uh I don't know. I I would love an open- source company that was focused on source company that was focused on source company that was focused on running it locally. That's that's my running it locally. That's that's my running it locally. That's that's my dream is, you know, make the model work dream is, you know, make the model work dream is, you know, make the model work there. I think these guys are capitalist there. I think these guys are capitalist there. I think these guys are capitalist cucks. I think their kink is like having cucks. I think their kink is like having cucks. I think their kink is like having their equity taken and being regulated. their equity taken and being regulated. their equity taken and being regulated. [laughter] They're just like, that's [laughter] They're just like, that's [laughter] They're just like, that's their kink. Dario's like, "Ooh, take my their kink. Dario's like, "Ooh, take my their kink. Dario's like, "Ooh, take my equity." Oh, regulate me. [laughter] equity." Oh, regulate me. [laughter] equity." Oh, regulate me. [laughter] That's it, Bernie. Take my equity. I'm That's it, Bernie. Take my equity. I'm That's it, Bernie. Take my equity. I'm such a bad boy. I can't be trusted. such a bad boy. I can't be trusted. such a bad boy. I can't be trusted. Regulate me, Elizabeth. Regulate me, Elizabeth. Regulate me, Elizabeth. Regulate me. A [laughter] Regulate me. A [laughter] Regulate me. A [laughter] >> god. >> god. >> god. >> Oh, it's so wrong. Sorry. Come on the >> Oh, it's so wrong. Sorry. Come on the >> Oh, it's so wrong. Sorry. Come on the program anytime, Dario. program anytime, Dario. program anytime, Dario. >> He's in a rush to come. He >> He's in a rush to come. He >> He's in a rush to come. He >> will never come on this pod. Dario will >> will never come on this pod. Dario will >> will never come on this pod. Dario will never running. He's running. never running. He's running. never running. He's running. >> We didn't get Sam. We got Sarah Frier to >> We didn't get Sam. We got Sarah Frier to >> We didn't get Sam. We got Sarah Frier to come on the pod. And she was treated. come on the pod. And she was treated. come on the pod. And she was treated. >> Sam came on the pod. He has to come on >> Sam came on the pod. He has to come on >> Sam came on the pod. He has to come on the pod. He's like, "Hey, came too." the pod. He's like, "Hey, came too." the pod. He's like, "Hey, came too." Right. Sorry to come on. He's great. Sam Right. Sorry to come on. He's great. Sam Right. Sorry to come on. He's great. Sam will come on the pot anytime. He's will come on the pot anytime. He's will come on the pot anytime. He's totally by the way. Even even we didn't totally by the way. Even even we didn't totally by the way. Even even we didn't treat him harshly at all. treat him harshly at all. treat him harshly at all. >> No, I mean >> No, I mean >> No, I mean >> I think people I mean we spent an hour >> I think people I mean we spent an hour >> I think people I mean we spent an hour on him. on him. on him. >> I think Sam to his credit is very >> I think Sam to his credit is very >> I think Sam to his credit is very practical. He sees the tea leaves and practical. He sees the tea leaves and practical. He sees the tea leaves and he's willing to negotiate and I think he's willing to negotiate and I think he's willing to negotiate and I think that that versus being some kind of that that versus being some kind of that that versus being some kind of moral absolutist will probably serve moral absolutist will probably serve moral absolutist will probably serve OpenAI well in the future. OpenAI well in the future. OpenAI well in the future. >> Yeah. It's just going to lose them all >> Yeah. It's just going to lose them all >> Yeah. It's just going to lose them all these virtue signaling principled these virtue signaling principled these virtue signaling principled employees to go go work for Daario. employees to go go work for Daario. employees to go go work for Daario. That's why they go work for Daario. are That's why they go work for Daario. are That's why they go work for Daario. are in line with their philosophies. in line with their philosophies. in line with their philosophies. >> We did mention, but everybody should >> We did mention, but everybody should >> We did mention, but everybody should go and see all of the recaps. We go and see all of the recaps. We go and see all of the recaps. We published now all the interviews. Yeah. published now all the interviews. Yeah. published now all the interviews. Yeah. Jason from Liquidity. Uh Sarah Prior, I Jason from Liquidity. Uh Sarah Prior, I Jason from Liquidity. Uh Sarah Prior, I mean, we mentioned Sarah Fry, but she mean, we mentioned Sarah Fry, but she mean, we mentioned Sarah Fry, but she crushed it. She was incredible. crushed it. She was incredible. crushed it. She was incredible. >> The CFO of Open AI, >> The CFO of Open AI, >> The CFO of Open AI, >> future CEO, I think, was the buzz in the >> future CEO, I think, was the buzz in the >> future CEO, I think, was the buzz in the room. room. room. >> I mean, >> I mean, >> I mean, >> oh, stop that. >> oh, stop that. >> oh, stop that. >> Stop. Can you stop? >> Stop. Can you stop? >> Stop. Can you stop? >> That's what people were saying. I have >> That's what people were saying. I have >> That's what people were saying. I have the right to free speech on this the right to free speech on this the right to free speech on this podcast. I think podcast. I think podcast. I think >> Look at you trying to introduce wedges. >> Look at you trying to introduce wedges. >> Look at you trying to introduce wedges. This is This is This is >> No, I'm not introducing wedges. I think >> No, I'm not introducing wedges. I think >> No, I'm not introducing wedges. I think Sam would be better as chairman. I think Sam would be better as chairman. I think Sam would be better as chairman. I think she would be the perfect CEO. she would be the perfect CEO. she would be the perfect CEO. >> It seemed like a good partnership. >> It seemed like a good partnership. >> It seemed like a good partnership. >> It seems like they have a great >> It seems like they have a great >> It seems like they have a great partnership. I agree. partnership. I agree. partnership. I agree. >> Sarah was really impressive. >> Sarah was really impressive. >> Sarah was really impressive. >> Who else was your favorite? Sachs, did >> Who else was your favorite? Sachs, did >> Who else was your favorite? Sachs, did you have a favorite? Did you have you have a favorite? Did you have you have a favorite? Did you have somebody who thought I did? I thought somebody who thought I did? I thought somebody who thought I did? I thought Thomas Leafant crushed it with his Thomas Leafant crushed it with his Thomas Leafant crushed it with his presentation on the overview of venture presentation on the overview of venture presentation on the overview of venture capital capital capital >> and he did it at summit I guess a year >> and he did it at summit I guess a year >> and he did it at summit I guess a year and a half, two years ago. and a half, two years ago. and a half, two years ago. >> Two years ago, but we're going to make >> Two years ago, but we're going to make >> Two years ago, but we're going to make it a yearly with him. Maybe. I think we it a yearly with him. Maybe. I think we it a yearly with him. Maybe. I think we should make it an annual feature with should make it an annual feature with should make it an annual feature with him because it's so interesting. him because it's so interesting. him because it's so interesting. >> So good. It's so good. >> So good. It's so good. >> So good. It's so good. >> It's so good. It provided so much um >> It's so good. It provided so much um >> It's so good. It provided so much um numerical detail to support a lot of numerical detail to support a lot of numerical detail to support a lot of things I was kind of feeling but didn't things I was kind of feeling but didn't things I was kind of feeling but didn't >> have the data. >> have the data. >> have the data. >> To summarize it, he's his basic >> To summarize it, he's his basic >> To summarize it, he's his basic observation was in this last cycle, if a observation was in this last cycle, if a observation was in this last cycle, if a company gets to a hundred billion company gets to a hundred billion company gets to a hundred billion valuation, it's more likely to 10x from valuation, it's more likely to 10x from valuation, it's more likely to 10x from there than from 10 billion to 100 there than from 10 billion to 100 there than from 10 billion to 100 billion. billion. billion. >> Well, he had data on this. Yeah, I >> Well, he had data on this. Yeah, I >> Well, he had data on this. Yeah, I remember remember remember >> he had data on it which is like, okay, >> he had data on it which is like, okay, >> he had data on it which is like, okay, well, that's going to really change. I well, that's going to really change. I well, that's going to really change. I remember the slide. remember the slide. remember the slide. >> Yeah, there it is. It's 8%. I I >> Yeah, there it is. It's 8%. I I >> Yeah, there it is. It's 8%. I I memorized it. memorized it. memorized it. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Yes. [laughter] >> Yes. [laughter] >> Yeah. If you're if you're a capital >> Yeah. If you're if you're a capital >> Yeah. If you're if you're a capital allocator, this one screamed. allocator, this one screamed. allocator, this one screamed. >> Look. Yes, that's right. The odds of a >> Look. Yes, that's right. The odds of a >> Look. Yes, that's right. The odds of a unicorn getting to decacorn was 8%. The unicorn getting to decacorn was 8%. The unicorn getting to decacorn was 8%. The odds of a decacorn getting to a senicorn odds of a decacorn getting to a senicorn odds of a decacorn getting to a senicorn was about double that was 13%. And then was about double that was 13%. And then was about double that was 13%. And then the odds of it going from senicorn to a the odds of it going from senicorn to a the odds of it going from senicorn to a trillion dollar market cap was 31%. So trillion dollar market cap was 31%. So trillion dollar market cap was 31%. So double again. And I I asked him, you double again. And I I asked him, you double again. And I I asked him, you know, could you extrapolate this on one know, could you extrapolate this on one know, could you extrapolate this on one trillion getting to 10 trillion? My trillion getting to 10 trillion? My trillion getting to 10 trillion? My guess is that it would follow and we'll guess is that it would follow and we'll guess is that it would follow and we'll see about see about see about >> 60% of >> 60% of >> 60% of >> trillion dollar market cap companies >> trillion dollar market cap companies >> trillion dollar market cap companies getting to 10 trillion in the next few getting to 10 trillion in the next few getting to 10 trillion in the next few years. years. years. >> These are called trillicorns by the way. >> These are called trillicorns by the way. >> These are called trillicorns by the way. We call them trillion trilicorns in the We call them trillion trilicorns in the We call them trillion trilicorns in the industry. So yes, industry. So yes, industry. So yes, >> this is going to go over really >> this is going to go over really >> this is going to go over really socialist crowd. People are going to socialist crowd. People are going to socialist crowd. People are going to love this. Yeah, love this. Yeah, love this. Yeah, >> it's just all you got to do is seize 10% >> it's just all you got to do is seize 10% >> it's just all you got to do is seize 10% of a trilicorn and you pay off 2% of our of a trilicorn and you pay off 2% of our of a trilicorn and you pay off 2% of our national debt. pretty good deal national debt. pretty good deal national debt. pretty good deal actually. actually. actually. >> All we need is 10% of 30 trilicorns and >> All we need is 10% of 30 trilicorns and >> All we need is 10% of 30 trilicorns and we're debt free. we're debt free. we're debt free. >> I mean >> I mean >> I mean >> it's not as crazy as it sounds. >> it's not as crazy as it sounds. >> it's not as crazy as it sounds. >> Is it more complicated than that? Now if >> Is it more complicated than that? Now if >> Is it more complicated than that? Now if you send me in I'll get 60% of all of you send me in I'll get 60% of all of you send me in I'll get 60% of all of them. them. them. >> Yes. And then we'll have a surplus of 30 >> Yes. And then we'll have a surplus of 30 >> Yes. And then we'll have a surplus of 30 billion and we can buy Australia. billion and we can buy Australia. billion and we can buy Australia. >> We'll pay it off much sooner. >> We'll pay it off much sooner. >> We'll pay it off much sooner. >> We could buy Cuba. >> We could buy Cuba. >> We could buy Cuba. >> I'd buy Canada first. Better scheme. >> I'd buy Canada first. Better scheme. >> I'd buy Canada first. Better scheme. >> I would you know what I would do? I >> I would you know what I would do? I >> I would you know what I would do? I would with Canada. I would buy like would with Canada. I would buy like would with Canada. I would buy like Vancouver or Toronto. Just like break Vancouver or Toronto. Just like break Vancouver or Toronto. Just like break them up. just buy like one of the them up. just buy like one of the them up. just buy like one of the regions. And let me thank let me thank regions. And let me thank let me thank regions. And let me thank let me thank Thomas Keller, the French Laundry, EY Thomas Keller, the French Laundry, EY Thomas Keller, the French Laundry, EY who sponsored our very innovative who sponsored our very innovative who sponsored our very innovative meeting hub at Liquidity. Here are some meeting hub at Liquidity. Here are some meeting hub at Liquidity. Here are some photos of that. The New York Stock photos of that. The New York Stock photos of that. The New York Stock Exchange, they hosted the speaker dinner Exchange, they hosted the speaker dinner Exchange, they hosted the speaker dinner at the French Laundry. Amazing pictures at the French Laundry. Amazing pictures at the French Laundry. Amazing pictures here. They are of us with Thomas Keller here. They are of us with Thomas Keller here. They are of us with Thomas Keller and they did a great interview on site. and they did a great interview on site. and they did a great interview on site. Niagen, they hosted the wellness lounge Niagen, they hosted the wellness lounge Niagen, they hosted the wellness lounge which included recovery IVs. They're the which included recovery IVs. They're the which included recovery IVs. They're the official NAD partner of the All-In Pod official NAD partner of the All-In Pod official NAD partner of the All-In Pod and all of our longevity. Our new and all of our longevity. Our new and all of our longevity. Our new bestie, our new bestie, Jake Paul, was bestie, our new bestie, Jake Paul, was bestie, our new bestie, Jake Paul, was there. He's a really thoughtful guy, there. He's a really thoughtful guy, there. He's a really thoughtful guy, Freeberg. Freeberg. Freeberg. >> Jake Paul was awesome. >> Jake Paul was awesome. >> Jake Paul was awesome. >> I sat him next to Sachs for dinner. >> I sat him next to Sachs for dinner. >> I sat him next to Sachs for dinner. >> Yeah, he's a great investor, by the way. >> Yeah, he's a great investor, by the way. >> Yeah, he's a great investor, by the way. >> Fantastic. Fantastic. >> Fantastic. Fantastic. >> Fantastic. Fantastic. >> His portfolio is awesome. He had a great >> His portfolio is awesome. He had a great >> His portfolio is awesome. He had a great team. His team came with him for the team. His team came with him for the team. His team came with him for the thing. thing. thing. >> Great strategy. Yeah. >> Great strategy. Yeah. >> Great strategy. Yeah. >> One thing I'll say about Thomas Keller, >> One thing I'll say about Thomas Keller, >> One thing I'll say about Thomas Keller, he had a strong watch game. I don't know he had a strong watch game. I don't know he had a strong watch game. I don't know if you guys noticed that. if you guys noticed that. if you guys noticed that. >> Probably noticed it. >> Probably noticed it. >> Probably noticed it. >> Nice potential. He had a aqua knot green >> Nice potential. He had a aqua knot green >> Nice potential. He had a aqua knot green band rose gold a complication on there. band rose gold a complication on there. band rose gold a complication on there. I was trying to trying to figure out I was trying to trying to figure out I was trying to trying to figure out what the complication was. I couldn't what the complication was. I couldn't what the complication was. I couldn't quite eyeball it. quite eyeball it. quite eyeball it. >> I don't know if [clears throat] you saw >> I don't know if [clears throat] you saw >> I don't know if [clears throat] you saw it, Jimoth. it, Jimoth. it, Jimoth. >> I was I looked at it and I was like, >> I was I looked at it and I was like, >> I was I looked at it and I was like, "Wow, this is very it's very elegant." "Wow, this is very it's very elegant." "Wow, this is very it's very elegant." Tell us Keller. I mean, the French Tell us Keller. I mean, the French Tell us Keller. I mean, the French Laundry is just transcendent. Did you Laundry is just transcendent. Did you Laundry is just transcendent. Did you have a favorite have a favorite have a favorite dish? Of course. Was it the duck or was dish? Of course. Was it the duck or was dish? Of course. Was it the duck or was it the Miyazaki? it the Miyazaki? it the Miyazaki? >> The duck was excellent. The Miyazaki >> The duck was excellent. The Miyazaki >> The duck was excellent. The Miyazaki beef was excellent, but the the tapioca beef was excellent, but the the tapioca beef was excellent, but the the tapioca pearls I thought was the best. Oh, pearls I thought was the best. Oh, pearls I thought was the best. Oh, oysters and pearls. That's your oysters oysters and pearls. That's your oysters oysters and pearls. That's your oysters with caviar. Sax, what was your favorite with caviar. Sax, what was your favorite with caviar. Sax, what was your favorite there? Do you have a favorite? there? Do you have a favorite? there? Do you have a favorite? >> One of the caviar related dishes. >> One of the caviar related dishes. >> One of the caviar related dishes. >> Yeah, that's oysters and pearls. >> Yeah, that's oysters and pearls. >> Yeah, that's oysters and pearls. Round of golf. The following day, we Round of golf. The following day, we Round of golf. The following day, we played a nine-hole scramble with played a nine-hole scramble with played a nine-hole scramble with everyone. It was great. So great. everyone. It was great. So great. everyone. It was great. So great. >> How much did you gamble and who won? >> How much did you gamble and who won? >> How much did you gamble and who won? >> We had a $100 a hole >> We had a $100 a hole >> We had a $100 a hole versus Chris Hoe, who's the chief versus Chris Hoe, who's the chief versus Chris Hoe, who's the chief business officer of Athena. But, you business officer of Athena. But, you business officer of Athena. But, you know, that is like a plus know, that is like a plus know, that is like a plus one, so whatever. I think we lost three one, so whatever. I think we lost three one, so whatever. I think we lost three units. So, we lost units. So, we lost units. So, we lost >> 300 bucks. >> 300 bucks. >> 300 bucks. >> All right. Shout out to our other >> All right. Shout out to our other >> All right. Shout out to our other partner, Athena. Athena. Wow.com. Go get partner, Athena. Athena. Wow.com. Go get partner, Athena. Athena. Wow.com. Go get a month free. All right. Whatever. I got a month free. All right. Whatever. I got a month free. All right. Whatever. I got to stop showing. Most importantly, to stop showing. Most importantly, to stop showing. Most importantly, everybody was very upset that liquidity everybody was very upset that liquidity everybody was very upset that liquidity sold out and people couldn't get in. sold out and people couldn't get in. sold out and people couldn't get in. There were like 3,000 applications. There were like 3,000 applications. There were like 3,000 applications. It's going to sell even faster uh next It's going to sell even faster uh next It's going to sell even faster uh next time around. So, go to allin.com/events time around. So, go to allin.com/events time around. So, go to allin.com/events and get your applications in if you want and get your applications in if you want and get your applications in if you want to come to Summit September 13th, 14th, to come to Summit September 13th, 14th, to come to Summit September 13th, 14th, and 15th. Freeberg's doing some wild and 15th. Freeberg's doing some wild and 15th. Freeberg's doing some wild stuff. some wild stuff for that event stuff. some wild stuff for that event stuff. some wild stuff for that event and uh it's gonna be cool. and uh it's gonna be cool. and uh it's gonna be cool. >> You're losing your mind. You're now >> You're losing your mind. You're now >> You're losing your mind. You're now becoming very eccentric, unhinged in becoming very eccentric, unhinged in becoming very eccentric, unhinged in your production value and Shimoth, your production value and Shimoth, your production value and Shimoth, >> you've been very selective in your >> you've been very selective in your >> you've been very selective in your approach to the liquidity speakers approach to the liquidity speakers approach to the liquidity speakers because liquidity is different than the because liquidity is different than the because liquidity is different than the summit. The summit is like a festival. summit. The summit is like a festival. summit. The summit is like a festival. It's a huge party. There's all this It's a huge party. There's all this It's a huge party. There's all this really interesting cross-sectional really interesting cross-sectional really interesting cross-sectional stuff. But liquidity is meant to be for stuff. But liquidity is meant to be for stuff. But liquidity is meant to be for one thing which is the most important one thing which is the most important one thing which is the most important capital allocators in the world should capital allocators in the world should capital allocators in the world should have one place to convene, debate, have one place to convene, debate, have one place to convene, debate, learn, talk, build relationships. And I learn, talk, build relationships. And I learn, talk, build relationships. And I want people to walk out of there with want people to walk out of there with want people to walk out of there with relationships that they can use. And I relationships that they can use. And I relationships that they can use. And I told you this before because capital is told you this before because capital is told you this before because capital is what shapes the things that occur in the what shapes the things that occur in the what shapes the things that occur in the world. So I think that we have to be world. So I think that we have to be world. So I think that we have to be extremely selective in how we curate extremely selective in how we curate extremely selective in how we curate every element of that show. It's not every element of that show. It's not every element of that show. It's not meant to be that you can just buy a meant to be that you can just buy a meant to be that you can just buy a ticket, but to just buy a ticket, which ticket, but to just buy a ticket, which ticket, but to just buy a ticket, which is also a very fair and rational and is also a very fair and rational and is also a very fair and rational and nice thing. The summit is a party. It's nice thing. The summit is a party. It's nice thing. The summit is a party. It's a vibe. a vibe. a vibe. >> It's awesome. And you're going to learn >> It's awesome. And you're going to learn >> It's awesome. And you're going to learn a lot and have a good time. You'll be a lot and have a good time. You'll be a lot and have a good time. You'll be entertained. All that great stuff. All entertained. All that great stuff. All entertained. All that great stuff. All right, let's keep going. Breaking topic right, let's keep going. Breaking topic right, let's keep going. Breaking topic this morning. CPI and PPI for May came this morning. CPI and PPI for May came this morning. CPI and PPI for May came in hot. Inflation is ripping. Here we in hot. Inflation is ripping. Here we in hot. Inflation is ripping. Here we go. CPI is obviously the consumer price go. CPI is obviously the consumer price go. CPI is obviously the consumer price index that tracks inflation from the index that tracks inflation from the index that tracks inflation from the buyer side. Rent, groceries, gas, buyer side. Rent, groceries, gas, buyer side. Rent, groceries, gas, healthcare, all that stuff. PPI is the healthcare, all that stuff. PPI is the healthcare, all that stuff. PPI is the producer price index that tracks producer price index that tracks producer price index that tracks inflation from the seller side. inflation from the seller side. inflation from the seller side. Wholesale goods, raw materials, yada Wholesale goods, raw materials, yada Wholesale goods, raw materials, yada yada. CPI came in at 4.2% yada. CPI came in at 4.2% yada. CPI came in at 4.2% year-over-year, highest since April year-over-year, highest since April year-over-year, highest since April 2023. There's your chart. PPI came in at 2023. There's your chart. PPI came in at 2023. There's your chart. PPI came in at 6.5% year-over-year, highest since the 6.5% year-over-year, highest since the 6.5% year-over-year, highest since the end of 2022. end of 2022. end of 2022. Here's your poly market. 21% chance Here's your poly market. 21% chance Here's your poly market. 21% chance inflation hits 5% in 2026. Uh and then inflation hits 5% in 2026. Uh and then inflation hits 5% in 2026. Uh and then an adjacent poly market chances of the an adjacent poly market chances of the an adjacent poly market chances of the Fed hiking this year at 49%. Fed hiking this year at 49%. Fed hiking this year at 49%. It was under 10% before the Iran war It was under 10% before the Iran war It was under 10% before the Iran war started. By the way, European Central started. By the way, European Central started. By the way, European Central Bank just raised rates a quarter point Bank just raised rates a quarter point Bank just raised rates a quarter point on Thursday. This was their first rate on Thursday. This was their first rate on Thursday. This was their first rate hike since September 2023. What do we hike since September 2023. What do we hike since September 2023. What do we take from this Freedberg? It's all take from this Freedberg? It's all take from this Freedberg? It's all related to the Iran war. Yeah, that's related to the Iran war. Yeah, that's related to the Iran war. Yeah, that's the the the >> there's definitely an energy blip from >> there's definitely an energy blip from >> there's definitely an energy blip from the Iran war that drove the core index the Iran war that drove the core index the Iran war that drove the core index up, but there's also the macro point up, but there's also the macro point up, but there's also the macro point which is government spending out of which is government spending out of which is government spending out of control, inflation out of control and control, inflation out of control and control, inflation out of control and fundamentally as things unravel you have fundamentally as things unravel you have fundamentally as things unravel you have rising rates. So I think we should kind rising rates. So I think we should kind rising rates. So I think we should kind of expect especially with a Kevin Worsh of expect especially with a Kevin Worsh of expect especially with a Kevin Worsh Fed, I think we could see north of five Fed, I think we could see north of five Fed, I think we could see north of five and a half, 6% overnight rates. It's not and a half, 6% overnight rates. It's not and a half, 6% overnight rates. It's not unforeseeable. So, unforeseeable. So, unforeseeable. So, >> this is just the nature of our monetary >> this is just the nature of our monetary >> this is just the nature of our monetary policy and our fiscal policy with our policy and our fiscal policy with our policy and our fiscal policy with our congressional um members that vote all congressional um members that vote all congressional um members that vote all of our future earnings away into of our future earnings away into of our future earnings away into But here we are But here we are But here we are >> and and [laughter] >> and and [laughter] >> and and [laughter] far worse far worse far worse >> that nobody expected. Chimath, your >> that nobody expected. Chimath, your >> that nobody expected. Chimath, your thoughts and then I'll wrap up with you. thoughts and then I'll wrap up with you. thoughts and then I'll wrap up with you. >> That was the most passive aggressive >> That was the most passive aggressive >> That was the most passive aggressive take I've heard in a while from take I've heard in a while from take I've heard in a while from >> He's a little upset about it. Yes. >> He's a little upset about it. Yes. >> He's a little upset about it. Yes. Clearly he's a little bitter about just Clearly he's a little bitter about just Clearly he's a little bitter about just so stupid to watch. so stupid to watch. so stupid to watch. >> Can you tell us how you really feel? >> Can you tell us how you really feel? >> Can you tell us how you really feel? What happened? Like honestly, like what What happened? Like honestly, like what What happened? Like honestly, like what else is there to say? I've said it like else is there to say? I've said it like else is there to say? I've said it like a hundred times. It's just idiotic. The a hundred times. It's just idiotic. The a hundred times. It's just idiotic. The the core problem with wealth inequality the core problem with wealth inequality the core problem with wealth inequality in this country, the core problem with in this country, the core problem with in this country, the core problem with inflation in this country, the core inflation in this country, the core inflation in this country, the core problem, all of it roots back to excess problem, all of it roots back to excess problem, all of it roots back to excess government spending. End of story. All government spending. End of story. All government spending. End of story. All of this, we're all talking about of this, we're all talking about of this, we're all talking about machinations at the edge of the network. machinations at the edge of the network. machinations at the edge of the network. The core of the network is overspending The core of the network is overspending The core of the network is overspending by the government because in order to by the government because in order to by the government because in order to get elected, you need someone to give get elected, you need someone to give get elected, you need someone to give you something more than you have today. you something more than you have today. you something more than you have today. That's how people get elected. And here That's how people get elected. And here That's how people get elected. And here we are 250 years later. I don't know if we are 250 years later. I don't know if we are 250 years later. I don't know if there's the will or the way to get out there's the will or the way to get out there's the will or the way to get out of it, but one of the manifestations of of it, but one of the manifestations of of it, but one of the manifestations of it will be in this late stage higher it will be in this late stage higher it will be in this late stage higher rates and as a response to inflation and rates and as a response to inflation and rates and as a response to inflation and here we are, you know. here we are, you know. here we are, you know. >> All right, Chim, what's your what's your >> All right, Chim, what's your what's your >> All right, Chim, what's your what's your take on this? Is it a transient take on this? Is it a transient take on this? Is it a transient as we uh have had other presidents say? as we uh have had other presidents say? as we uh have had other presidents say? Is it uh is there a offramp for the Iran Is it uh is there a offramp for the Iran Is it uh is there a offramp for the Iran war? I don't know if this is above all war? I don't know if this is above all war? I don't know if this is above all of our pay grades, but this does seem to of our pay grades, but this does seem to of our pay grades, but this does seem to be a challenging moment happening right be a challenging moment happening right be a challenging moment happening right before the midterms before the midterms before the midterms and consumers expected that their cost and consumers expected that their cost and consumers expected that their cost of living would go down and that they of living would go down and that they of living would go down and that they would benefit from this golden age and would benefit from this golden age and would benefit from this golden age and it hasn't happened yet. Well, look, it's it hasn't happened yet. Well, look, it's it hasn't happened yet. Well, look, it's concerning. I don't think that I concerning. I don't think that I concerning. I don't think that I expected the print to be this hot. Now, expected the print to be this hot. Now, expected the print to be this hot. Now, what's what's what's keeping things in line? there's still a keeping things in line? there's still a keeping things in line? there's still a chance that we're not going to see CPI chance that we're not going to see CPI chance that we're not going to see CPI go absolutely crazy. And part of that is go absolutely crazy. And part of that is go absolutely crazy. And part of that is because China has been smoothing the because China has been smoothing the because China has been smoothing the energy consumption globally worldwide. energy consumption globally worldwide. energy consumption globally worldwide. And so we've kind of kept a damper on And so we've kind of kept a damper on And so we've kind of kept a damper on $200 a barrel oil. In fact, we're $200 a barrel oil. In fact, we're $200 a barrel oil. In fact, we're subundred. At the same time, I think subundred. At the same time, I think subundred. At the same time, I think it's pulled forward a lot of more it's pulled forward a lot of more it's pulled forward a lot of more practical sources of energy production, practical sources of energy production, practical sources of energy production, not just in the United States, but not just in the United States, but not just in the United States, but abroad. Specifically, what I mean is abroad. Specifically, what I mean is abroad. Specifically, what I mean is solar. just because it's simple, it's solar. just because it's simple, it's solar. just because it's simple, it's passive, and you don't need you don't passive, and you don't need you don't passive, and you don't need you don't need a lot of permitting, and you don't need a lot of permitting, and you don't need a lot of permitting, and you don't need clean air permits and the like. need clean air permits and the like. need clean air permits and the like. >> So, all of these things have been able >> So, all of these things have been able >> So, all of these things have been able to keep a lid on it. to keep a lid on it. to keep a lid on it. >> If China somehow runs out of reserves, >> If China somehow runs out of reserves, >> If China somehow runs out of reserves, and they need to go back into the spot and they need to go back into the spot and they need to go back into the spot market to buy an extra 3 million barrels market to buy an extra 3 million barrels market to buy an extra 3 million barrels a day, there's a very big risk that oil a day, there's a very big risk that oil a day, there's a very big risk that oil gets into the well past 100 and maybe gets into the well past 100 and maybe gets into the well past 100 and maybe between 150 and 200 a barrel. That has a between 150 and 200 a barrel. That has a between 150 and 200 a barrel. That has a lot of downstream problems with respect lot of downstream problems with respect lot of downstream problems with respect to CPI. to CPI. to CPI. Not even because US energy supply, but Not even because US energy supply, but Not even because US energy supply, but really because the inputs that oil feeds really because the inputs that oil feeds really because the inputs that oil feeds all around the world that then get all around the world that then get all around the world that then get absorbed by the costs that people pay absorbed by the costs that people pay absorbed by the costs that people pay for everyday things could go up. for everyday things could go up. for everyday things could go up. >> So I think the PPI number should be an >> So I think the PPI number should be an >> So I think the PPI number should be an alarm that we use to offramp this around alarm that we use to offramp this around alarm that we use to offramp this around situation sooner rather than later. I situation sooner rather than later. I situation sooner rather than later. I just unless again because we don't know just unless again because we don't know just unless again because we don't know what happened in China because none of what happened in China because none of what happened in China because none of us were there. Unless there's an us were there. Unless there's an us were there. Unless there's an understanding understanding understanding that the president has with Xi about how that the president has with Xi about how that the president has with Xi about how much actual supply and slack is in the much actual supply and slack is in the much actual supply and slack is in the Chinese system and that may allow him to Chinese system and that may allow him to Chinese system and that may allow him to take a much longer road to get a take a much longer road to get a take a much longer road to get a conclusive and decisive win in Iran, but conclusive and decisive win in Iran, but conclusive and decisive win in Iran, but I I don't there was supposed to be some I I don't there was supposed to be some I I don't there was supposed to be some tangible known resolutions with this tangible known resolutions with this tangible known resolutions with this China trip. We haven't heard them China trip. We haven't heard them China trip. We haven't heard them explicitly stated yet. What's your take explicitly stated yet. What's your take explicitly stated yet. What's your take on uh this Sachs? uh the inflation print on uh this Sachs? uh the inflation print on uh this Sachs? uh the inflation print and is there like a a golden bridge to and is there like a a golden bridge to and is there like a a golden bridge to to end this war in Iran? to end this war in Iran? to end this war in Iran? >> Jake, the problem is when you asked me >> Jake, the problem is when you asked me >> Jake, the problem is when you asked me that question, people assume that I have that question, people assume that I have that question, people assume that I have some sort of insight information and I some sort of insight information and I some sort of insight information and I don't look the PPI print is what it is. don't look the PPI print is what it is. don't look the PPI print is what it is. I largely agree with what Chamas said. I largely agree with what Chamas said. I largely agree with what Chamas said. The only thing I would add is that it The only thing I would add is that it The only thing I would add is that it was largely in line with expectations. was largely in line with expectations. was largely in line with expectations. That's why the market is actually up That's why the market is actually up That's why the market is actually up today. Normally if there's a surprise today. Normally if there's a surprise today. Normally if there's a surprise print and inflation is high then the print and inflation is high then the print and inflation is high then the market is down because the market starts market is down because the market starts market is down because the market starts pricing in the implication of higher pricing in the implication of higher pricing in the implication of higher interest rates. It's not doing that interest rates. It's not doing that interest rates. It's not doing that today. So it's in line with today. So it's in line with today. So it's in line with expectations. But I largely agree with expectations. But I largely agree with expectations. But I largely agree with what Chamas said. what Chamas said. what Chamas said. >> Yeah. All right. Well, listen, we got to >> Yeah. All right. Well, listen, we got to >> Yeah. All right. Well, listen, we got to get to other elections. You know, my get to other elections. You know, my get to other elections. You know, my take on it is just huge colossal era take on it is just huge colossal era take on it is just huge colossal era starting this Iran war and hopefully we starting this Iran war and hopefully we starting this Iran war and hopefully we can get out of it. Um the downstream can get out of it. Um the downstream can get out of it. Um the downstream effects of this are just disastrous. Um, effects of this are just disastrous. Um, effects of this are just disastrous. Um, I'm hoping there's a quick resolution or I'm hoping there's a quick resolution or I'm hoping there's a quick resolution or some way to get out of it before it goes some way to get out of it before it goes some way to get out of it before it goes to, you know, a year or two or three. We to, you know, a year or two or three. We to, you know, a year or two or three. We can't be in a forever war, obviously. can't be in a forever war, obviously. can't be in a forever war, obviously. >> NASDAQ up 2 and a half% today. That >> NASDAQ up 2 and a half% today. That >> NASDAQ up 2 and a half% today. That normally doesn't happen when there's a normally doesn't happen when there's a normally doesn't happen when there's a hot print because again, like tech hot print because again, like tech hot print because again, like tech stocks are the most susceptible to high stocks are the most susceptible to high stocks are the most susceptible to high interest rates. So, the market at this interest rates. So, the market at this interest rates. So, the market at this point seems to be pricing in point seems to be pricing in point seems to be pricing in >> a resolution. But we'll see. We'll see. >> a resolution. But we'll see. We'll see. >> a resolution. But we'll see. We'll see. >> We'll see. Yeah. I mean, it's just this >> We'll see. Yeah. I mean, it's just this >> We'll see. Yeah. I mean, it's just this is a everybody knows Iran is a quagmire is a everybody knows Iran is a quagmire is a everybody knows Iran is a quagmire and really was was a huge mistake. All and really was was a huge mistake. All and really was was a huge mistake. All right, let's talk about the hand ringing right, let's talk about the hand ringing right, let's talk about the hand ringing around vote counts in the LA mayoral around vote counts in the LA mayoral around vote counts in the LA mayoral primary instead of me reading all these primary instead of me reading all these primary instead of me reading all these details. Just Freeberg, I know you're details. Just Freeberg, I know you're details. Just Freeberg, I know you're hot. hot. hot. >> I think we know about it. Yeah. >> I think we know about it. Yeah. >> I think we know about it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think [laughter] if you're on X, >> Yeah. I think [laughter] if you're on X, >> Yeah. I think [laughter] if you're on X, it's essentially your entire feed. Uh it's essentially your entire feed. Uh it's essentially your entire feed. Uh Freeberg, what's your take? Is the Freeberg, what's your take? Is the Freeberg, what's your take? Is the election system in Los Angeles, election system in Los Angeles, election system in Los Angeles, specifically in California, corrupt? And specifically in California, corrupt? And specifically in California, corrupt? And is this election been stolen from is this election been stolen from is this election been stolen from Spencer Pratt or is it just Spencer Pratt or is it just Spencer Pratt or is it just >> There is no election. >> There is no election. >> There is no election. >> There was no election. >> There was no election. >> There was no election. >> There is no election. >> There is no election. >> There is no election. >> Okay. So there is no spoon. Your rights >> Okay. So there is no spoon. Your rights >> Okay. So there is no spoon. Your rights to have an election are gone. to have an election are gone. to have an election are gone. You are a citizen of those who tell you You are a citizen of those who tell you You are a citizen of those who tell you who your overseers are. You are no who your overseers are. You are no who your overseers are. You are no longer allowed to vote longer allowed to vote longer allowed to vote >> allowed to vote >> allowed to vote >> allowed to vote >> for your elected representatives. They >> for your elected representatives. They >> for your elected representatives. They are now appointed representatives. So are now appointed representatives. So are now appointed representatives. So enjoy the appointments that have been enjoy the appointments that have been enjoy the appointments that have been made by who? made by who? made by who? >> Appointed by those who have constructed >> Appointed by those who have constructed >> Appointed by those who have constructed the matrix. the matrix. the matrix. >> Got it. Now I understand the background. >> Got it. Now I understand the background. >> Got it. Now I understand the background. There is no spoon. Agent Smith and all There is no spoon. Agent Smith and all There is no spoon. Agent Smith and all the Agent Smiths are the Agent Smiths are the Agent Smiths are in charge. So, here's some statistics in charge. So, here's some statistics in charge. So, here's some statistics for you. In-person voting the day of the for you. In-person voting the day of the for you. In-person voting the day of the election in Los Angeles County for election in Los Angeles County for election in Los Angeles County for mayor. Spencer Pratt 35%. Karen Bass mayor. Spencer Pratt 35%. Karen Bass mayor. Spencer Pratt 35%. Karen Bass 29%. Nipia Ramen 26%. 29%. Nipia Ramen 26%. 29%. Nipia Ramen 26%. mail-in ballots received before election mail-in ballots received before election mail-in ballots received before election day, 38% for Bass, 28% for Pratt, 20% day, 38% for Bass, 28% for Pratt, 20% day, 38% for Bass, 28% for Pratt, 20% for Ramen. And then all these ballots for Ramen. And then all these ballots for Ramen. And then all these ballots that arrive after election day, 37% for that arrive after election day, 37% for that arrive after election day, 37% for Ramen, 35% for Bass, 19% for Pratt. So Ramen, 35% for Bass, 19% for Pratt. So Ramen, 35% for Bass, 19% for Pratt. So Pratt's Pratt's Pratt's post election mailin ballots declined by post election mailin ballots declined by post election mailin ballots declined by one/ird. So statistically the population one/ird. So statistically the population one/ird. So statistically the population of people that send in their ballots of people that send in their ballots of people that send in their ballots late reduced for Pratt by a third late reduced for Pratt by a third late reduced for Pratt by a third increased for Nipia Ramen by 80%. increased for Nipia Ramen by 80%. increased for Nipia Ramen by 80%. And Karen Bass 10% less if you just look And Karen Bass 10% less if you just look And Karen Bass 10% less if you just look at the mail in ballots before and after at the mail in ballots before and after at the mail in ballots before and after election day as a comparison. I don't election day as a comparison. I don't election day as a comparison. I don't know if there's a socopolitical way that know if there's a socopolitical way that know if there's a socopolitical way that you can assess those statistics and you can assess those statistics and you can assess those statistics and assume that these are individuals assume that these are individuals assume that these are individuals casting their individual vote for who casting their individual vote for who casting their individual vote for who they think should be mayor of LA. And they think should be mayor of LA. And they think should be mayor of LA. And Nick, if you'll just pull up the map, Nick, if you'll just pull up the map, Nick, if you'll just pull up the map, which I think is worth taking a look at. which I think is worth taking a look at. which I think is worth taking a look at. Basically, the concentration of Basically, the concentration of Basically, the concentration of incremental votes that Nitia Ramen got, incremental votes that Nitia Ramen got, incremental votes that Nitia Ramen got, came around the Skid Row area in Los came around the Skid Row area in Los came around the Skid Row area in Los Angeles. And look, I'm not an election Angeles. And look, I'm not an election Angeles. And look, I'm not an election denier. I'm not someone who's denier. I'm not someone who's denier. I'm not someone who's historically believed the idea that historically believed the idea that historically believed the idea that elections are fraud and people have elections are fraud and people have elections are fraud and people have stolen votes. But when you look at the stolen votes. But when you look at the stolen votes. But when you look at the basic statistics of what happened in basic statistics of what happened in basic statistics of what happened in person, mail in before, mail in after person, mail in before, mail in after person, mail in before, mail in after election day, it becomes a real election day, it becomes a real election day, it becomes a real statistical quagmire on how did this statistical quagmire on how did this statistical quagmire on how did this sort of a sociopolitical shift happen in sort of a sociopolitical shift happen in sort of a sociopolitical shift happen in such a way that it did. Now, there was a such a way that it did. Now, there was a such a way that it did. Now, there was a report published, Nick, if you could report published, Nick, if you could report published, Nick, if you could pull this up by the US House of pull this up by the US House of pull this up by the US House of Representatives Committee on House Representatives Committee on House Representatives Committee on House Administration. This was published in Administration. This was published in Administration. This was published in May of 2020 and they highlighted the May of 2020 and they highlighted the May of 2020 and they highlighted the 2018 California midterm elections and 2018 California midterm elections and 2018 California midterm elections and the challenges they saw arise in that the challenges they saw arise in that the challenges they saw arise in that midterm elections because of some of the midterm elections because of some of the midterm elections because of some of the legislative changes that were made. legislative changes that were made. legislative changes that were made. First, California Assembly Bill 1921 First, California Assembly Bill 1921 First, California Assembly Bill 1921 legalized the practice of unlimited legalized the practice of unlimited legalized the practice of unlimited ballot harvesting in the state. This was ballot harvesting in the state. This was ballot harvesting in the state. This was passed around 2018 around the midterms. passed around 2018 around the midterms. passed around 2018 around the midterms. What that means is that any individual What that means is that any individual What that means is that any individual in the state of California has the right in the state of California has the right in the state of California has the right to go and collect ballots from any other to go and collect ballots from any other to go and collect ballots from any other individuals regardless of relationship, individuals regardless of relationship, individuals regardless of relationship, fill them out and send them in. fill them out and send them in. fill them out and send them in. California 2 years later, 18 months California 2 years later, 18 months California 2 years later, 18 months later, also passed a law that made it later, also passed a law that made it later, also passed a law that made it permanent that every person registered permanent that every person registered permanent that every person registered in the state of California would get a in the state of California would get a in the state of California would get a ballot. So tens of millions of ballots ballot. So tens of millions of ballots ballot. So tens of millions of ballots then get mailed out. Then there was then get mailed out. Then there was then get mailed out. Then there was another series of laws that were passed another series of laws that were passed another series of laws that were passed that said anyone can register to vote. that said anyone can register to vote. that said anyone can register to vote. You don't need to prove your You don't need to prove your You don't need to prove your citizenship. You can use a gym citizenship. You can use a gym citizenship. You can use a gym membership card as an example. So anyone membership card as an example. So anyone membership card as an example. So anyone can register to vote. There is no proof can register to vote. There is no proof can register to vote. There is no proof of ID when you get a ballot. There is no of ID when you get a ballot. There is no of ID when you get a ballot. There is no demonstration that the person who fills demonstration that the person who fills demonstration that the person who fills out the ballot has anything to do with out the ballot has anything to do with out the ballot has anything to do with the individual who's supposed to be the individual who's supposed to be the individual who's supposed to be voting that ballot. And it is legal for voting that ballot. And it is legal for voting that ballot. And it is legal for an individual to go out and collect an individual to go out and collect an individual to go out and collect hundreds or thousands of ballots, ship hundreds or thousands of ballots, ship hundreds or thousands of ballots, ship them in, and they will all qualify in them in, and they will all qualify in them in, and they will all qualify in these kind of mail-in ballot voting these kind of mail-in ballot voting these kind of mail-in ballot voting processes. So there's nothing illegal or processes. So there's nothing illegal or processes. So there's nothing illegal or fraudulent going on. In fact, the system fraudulent going on. In fact, the system fraudulent going on. In fact, the system is operating exactly as intended. It has is operating exactly as intended. It has is operating exactly as intended. It has been set up and structured in a way that been set up and structured in a way that been set up and structured in a way that with the right construct, you can get an with the right construct, you can get an with the right construct, you can get an individual appointed, not elected, but individual appointed, not elected, but individual appointed, not elected, but appointed to a particular role in appointed to a particular role in appointed to a particular role in government under a quote free election government under a quote free election government under a quote free election in California. This is a foundational in California. This is a foundational in California. This is a foundational destruction of our rights to vote for destruction of our rights to vote for destruction of our rights to vote for people in a free democracy. I feel it's people in a free democracy. I feel it's people in a free democracy. I feel it's been eroded slowly over time to such an been eroded slowly over time to such an been eroded slowly over time to such an extent now and I'm not some crazy MAGA extent now and I'm not some crazy MAGA extent now and I'm not some crazy MAGA mother whatever people want to classify mother whatever people want to classify mother whatever people want to classify me as for pointing this out but you can me as for pointing this out but you can me as for pointing this out but you can go down this list they are all written go down this list they are all written go down this list they are all written out in this document every one of these out in this document every one of these out in this document every one of these laws that were passed in California over laws that were passed in California over laws that were passed in California over time that in aggregate create the time that in aggregate create the time that in aggregate create the environment and the construction for environment and the construction for environment and the construction for elections to become appointments and no elections to become appointments and no elections to become appointments and no longer free democratic elections where longer free democratic elections where longer free democratic elections where the principle very importantly the the principle very importantly the the principle very importantly the principle should be one individual principle should be one individual principle should be one individual one vote and if you opt to not vote, one vote and if you opt to not vote, one vote and if you opt to not vote, your vote should not be counted. So I your vote should not be counted. So I your vote should not be counted. So I think that there's no fraud. I don't think that there's no fraud. I don't think that there's no fraud. I don't think there's anything. think there's anything. think there's anything. >> It sounds like you believe there's >> It sounds like you believe there's >> It sounds like you believe there's massive fraud. massive fraud. massive fraud. >> Yeah. I think this is not fraud. This is >> Yeah. I think this is not fraud. This is >> Yeah. I think this is not fraud. This is this is the way the laws are set up. this is the way the laws are set up. this is the way the laws are set up. >> It's not fraud. >> It's not fraud. >> It's not fraud. >> It's the way the law is set up. >> It's the way the law is set up. >> It's the way the law is set up. >> Okay. Sachs, you say a fraud. >> Okay. Sachs, you say a fraud. >> Okay. Sachs, you say a fraud. >> This is the system of appointment. >> This is the system of appointment. >> This is the system of appointment. >> Okay. Yeah. It sounds to me like you're >> Okay. Yeah. It sounds to me like you're >> Okay. Yeah. It sounds to me like you're describing fraud, but you're saying the describing fraud, but you're saying the describing fraud, but you're saying the system allows fraud. system allows fraud. system allows fraud. >> Fraud is breaking the law. Fraud is >> Fraud is breaking the law. Fraud is >> Fraud is breaking the law. Fraud is breaking the law. The law allows them to breaking the law. The law allows them to breaking the law. The law allows them to do it. If you paid people on Skid Row, do it. If you paid people on Skid Row, do it. If you paid people on Skid Row, that's not legal. that's not legal. that's not legal. >> That is illegal. But you are allowed to >> That is illegal. But you are allowed to >> That is illegal. But you are allowed to go out and get anyone to register. go out and get anyone to register. go out and get anyone to register. You're allowed to go out and collect all You're allowed to go out and collect all You're allowed to go out and collect all the ballots. And the people that are the ballots. And the people that are the ballots. And the people that are doing it, as long as you're not getting doing it, as long as you're not getting doing it, as long as you're not getting paid per ballot, you're legally allowed paid per ballot, you're legally allowed paid per ballot, you're legally allowed to do it. Let me pause for one second. to do it. Let me pause for one second. to do it. Let me pause for one second. When you look at any one of these laws When you look at any one of these laws When you look at any one of these laws in isolation, you can understand that in isolation, you can understand that in isolation, you can understand that there is some altruistic intention or there is some altruistic intention or there is some altruistic intention or there can be framed to be an altruistic there can be framed to be an altruistic there can be framed to be an altruistic intention behind it. Increase voter intention behind it. Increase voter intention behind it. Increase voter activity. Give everyone the right to activity. Give everyone the right to activity. Give everyone the right to vote. give more people access, more vote. give more people access, more vote. give more people access, more channels to vote, etc., etc. And you can channels to vote, etc., etc. And you can channels to vote, etc., etc. And you can rationalize away how every one of these rationalize away how every one of these rationalize away how every one of these laws makes it easier and adds laws makes it easier and adds laws makes it easier and adds lubrication to the system. And now we've lubrication to the system. And now we've lubrication to the system. And now we've got a quote more accessible democracy got a quote more accessible democracy got a quote more accessible democracy for everyone. But the truth is that for everyone. But the truth is that for everyone. But the truth is that there is a concept in insurance called there is a concept in insurance called there is a concept in insurance called adverse selection, which is if there is adverse selection, which is if there is adverse selection, which is if there is a moment to exploit something, the a moment to exploit something, the a moment to exploit something, the criminals will exploit it to the extent criminals will exploit it to the extent criminals will exploit it to the extent that it will become asymmetric. the that it will become asymmetric. the that it will become asymmetric. the criminals or the or the do bads, not the criminals or the or the do bads, not the criminals or the or the do bads, not the dogooders, will find a way to take dogooders, will find a way to take dogooders, will find a way to take advantage of a hole in a system just advantage of a hole in a system just advantage of a hole in a system just like hackers do to break into a network like hackers do to break into a network like hackers do to break into a network >> and that's what you system ramen and >> and that's what you system ramen and >> and that's what you system ramen and Spencer Pratt did. Spencer Pratt did. Spencer Pratt did. >> This set of mechanisms, this set of >> This set of mechanisms, this set of >> This set of mechanisms, this set of construction has allowed for a system construction has allowed for a system construction has allowed for a system that now has evolved into an that now has evolved into an that now has evolved into an appointment. So you believe worked the appointment. So you believe worked the appointment. So you believe worked the system better than Spencer Pratt? system better than Spencer Pratt? system better than Spencer Pratt? >> She had a better cheating operation. >> She had a better cheating operation. >> She had a better cheating operation. Obviously, you can see it in the chart. Obviously, you can see it in the chart. Obviously, you can see it in the chart. the just look at the number of votes. the just look at the number of votes. the just look at the number of votes. >> Okay, define cheating here just so we're >> Okay, define cheating here just so we're >> Okay, define cheating here just so we're clear. clear. clear. >> How does it happen where Bass stays flat >> How does it happen where Bass stays flat >> How does it happen where Bass stays flat and then Ramen and Pratt just switch and then Ramen and Pratt just switch and then Ramen and Pratt just switch places? So on election day, he's the places? So on election day, he's the places? So on election day, he's the clear number two and then they keep clear number two and then they keep clear number two and then they keep counting for a week. They don't even counting for a week. They don't even counting for a week. They don't even know how many ballots they're supposed know how many ballots they're supposed know how many ballots they're supposed to have. I mean, none of the stuff is to have. I mean, none of the stuff is to have. I mean, none of the stuff is locked down. Okay, let me explain how locked down. Okay, let me explain how locked down. Okay, let me explain how the cheating works. And to Freeberg's the cheating works. And to Freeberg's the cheating works. And to Freeberg's point, it may or may not be legal. So I, point, it may or may not be legal. So I, point, it may or may not be legal. So I, you know, I don't want to get you know, I don't want to get you know, I don't want to get sidetracked by whether the fraud is sidetracked by whether the fraud is sidetracked by whether the fraud is legal or illegal, but I think we all legal or illegal, but I think we all legal or illegal, but I think we all know it's crooked. And here's how it know it's crooked. And here's how it know it's crooked. And here's how it works. First of all, works. First of all, works. First of all, >> yeah, explain what's I'll explain it to >> yeah, explain what's I'll explain it to >> yeah, explain what's I'll explain it to you. I'll explain it to you. And if I if you. I'll explain it to you. And if I if you. I'll explain it to you. And if I if I misstate a fact, then let me know. I misstate a fact, then let me know. I misstate a fact, then let me know. >> So, first of all, California sends out >> So, first of all, California sends out >> So, first of all, California sends out ballots to every registered voters. It's ballots to every registered voters. It's ballots to every registered voters. It's something like 23 24 million people. something like 23 24 million people. something like 23 24 million people. Only 9 and a half million people vote. Only 9 and a half million people vote. Only 9 and a half million people vote. So, what happens to the other 14 million So, what happens to the other 14 million So, what happens to the other 14 million ballots? I have a friend who lives in ballots? I have a friend who lives in ballots? I have a friend who lives in LA. He manages apartment buildings. He LA. He manages apartment buildings. He LA. He manages apartment buildings. He says that the ballots just pile up, you says that the ballots just pile up, you says that the ballots just pile up, you know, at the mailboxes. Yes. That know, at the mailboxes. Yes. That know, at the mailboxes. Yes. That everybody has in the buildings. There's everybody has in the buildings. There's everybody has in the buildings. There's like loose ballots everywhere. They're like loose ballots everywhere. They're like loose ballots everywhere. They're sent to people who don't even live there sent to people who don't even live there sent to people who don't even live there anymore. He like recognizes that the anymore. He like recognizes that the anymore. He like recognizes that the names, they're people who haven't lived names, they're people who haven't lived names, they're people who haven't lived there in years. So, the voter roles are there in years. So, the voter roles are there in years. So, the voter roles are dirty. They haven't been cleaned up in dirty. They haven't been cleaned up in dirty. They haven't been cleaned up in years. Okay. Then you have the issue years. Okay. Then you have the issue years. Okay. Then you have the issue that there's no voter ID on election that there's no voter ID on election that there's no voter ID on election day. There's no voter ID to even get day. There's no voter ID to even get day. There's no voter ID to even get registered. When you sign your ballot, registered. When you sign your ballot, registered. When you sign your ballot, they run it through a machine. As long they run it through a machine. As long they run it through a machine. As long as the signature matches 40%, I don't as the signature matches 40%, I don't as the signature matches 40%, I don't even know what 40% means. It's like less even know what 40% means. It's like less even know what 40% means. It's like less than half accurate, the machine says than half accurate, the machine says than half accurate, the machine says it's fine. Okay? And then it doesn't it's fine. Okay? And then it doesn't it's fine. Okay? And then it doesn't even check the signature of the voter if even check the signature of the voter if even check the signature of the voter if you have a supposed witness. So the you have a supposed witness. So the you have a supposed witness. So the voter can just put like a little X on voter can just put like a little X on voter can just put like a little X on their signature as long [clears throat] their signature as long [clears throat] their signature as long [clears throat] as the witness says and they sign, but as the witness says and they sign, but as the witness says and they sign, but there's no registration of witnesses. there's no registration of witnesses. there's no registration of witnesses. Anybody can be a witness. There's no Anybody can be a witness. There's no Anybody can be a witness. There's no database of witnesses. And so the database of witnesses. And so the database of witnesses. And so the witness just puts a squiggle. So what is witness just puts a squiggle. So what is witness just puts a squiggle. So what is to stop the so-called ballot harvester to stop the so-called ballot harvester to stop the so-called ballot harvester from going filling out these ballots, from going filling out these ballots, from going filling out these ballots, putting a little X on the voter, putting putting a little X on the voter, putting putting a little X on the voter, putting a little squiggle on on the the witness, a little squiggle on on the the witness, a little squiggle on on the the witness, and then dumping these ballots. There's and then dumping these ballots. There's and then dumping these ballots. There's no chain of custody. So the risk would no chain of custody. So the risk would no chain of custody. So the risk would be they would be arrested and be they would be arrested and be they would be arrested and >> and right >> and right >> and right >> well what is their expectation getting >> well what is their expectation getting >> well what is their expectation getting caught? Gavin Newsome just signed a law caught? Gavin Newsome just signed a law caught? Gavin Newsome just signed a law making it virtually impossible to audit making it virtually impossible to audit making it virtually impossible to audit any of this stuff. any of this stuff. any of this stuff. >> So now even if they thought maybe they >> So now even if they thought maybe they >> So now even if they thought maybe they could get caught. Let's just take a look could get caught. Let's just take a look could get caught. Let's just take a look at all the other types of fraud at all the other types of fraud at all the other types of fraud happening in California right now that happening in California right now that happening in California right now that we know about. We know that there's we know about. We know that there's we know about. We know that there's billions of dollars in fraud in billions of dollars in fraud in billions of dollars in fraud in California for things like Medicaid California for things like Medicaid California for things like Medicaid fraud, unemployment fraud, EBT fraud, fraud, unemployment fraud, EBT fraud, fraud, unemployment fraud, EBT fraud, hospice fraud, fraud related to the hospice fraud, fraud related to the hospice fraud, fraud related to the homeless industrial complex, and on and homeless industrial complex, and on and homeless industrial complex, and on and on. That's all been proven. Okay. Is it on. That's all been proven. Okay. Is it on. That's all been proven. Okay. Is it really so hard to believe that some of really so hard to believe that some of really so hard to believe that some of the same groups, the same interest the same groups, the same interest the same groups, the same interest groups, the same NOS's would be willing groups, the same NOS's would be willing groups, the same NOS's would be willing to exploit these loopholes in the dirty to exploit these loopholes in the dirty to exploit these loopholes in the dirty voter roles in the millions of ballots voter roles in the millions of ballots voter roles in the millions of ballots that go to incorrect or non-existent that go to incorrect or non-existent that go to incorrect or non-existent addresses, the non-existent chain of addresses, the non-existent chain of addresses, the non-existent chain of custody, the non-existent signature custody, the non-existent signature custody, the non-existent signature verification, the no ID, not only to verification, the no ID, not only to verification, the no ID, not only to vote but to register, counting ballots vote but to register, counting ballots vote but to register, counting ballots without postmarks if received 7 days without postmarks if received 7 days without postmarks if received 7 days later, registering thousands of ballots later, registering thousands of ballots later, registering thousands of ballots from homeless shelters that don't even from homeless shelters that don't even from homeless shelters that don't even have any beds. These are all known have any beds. These are all known have any beds. These are all known things. So when you say that there's no things. So when you say that there's no things. So when you say that there's no fraud, it's like come on, there's fraud, it's like come on, there's fraud, it's like come on, there's loopholes and all you got to do is look loopholes and all you got to do is look loopholes and all you got to do is look at the results and see that there's at the results and see that there's at the results and see that there's something crooked going on here. something crooked going on here. something crooked going on here. >> Okay, so you're in the camp that there >> Okay, so you're in the camp that there >> Okay, so you're in the camp that there is fraud going on because where there's is fraud going on because where there's is fraud going on because where there's >> it may be legalized. It may be >> it may be legalized. It may be >> it may be legalized. It may be legalized, but it's fraud. legalized, but it's fraud. legalized, but it's fraud. >> Okay, so you believe there's fraud. >> Okay, so you believe there's fraud. >> Okay, so you believe there's fraud. Look, when you start mailing out Look, when you start mailing out Look, when you start mailing out millions of ballots to people who don't millions of ballots to people who don't millions of ballots to people who don't even vote, and then you have no audit even vote, and then you have no audit even vote, and then you have no audit requirements, no chain of custody, no requirements, no chain of custody, no requirements, no chain of custody, no punishments, no penalties, no punishments, no penalties, no punishments, no penalties, no investigations, and there's a huge tons investigations, and there's a huge tons investigations, and there's a huge tons of investigations both by attorney of investigations both by attorney of investigations both by attorney generals generals generals >> in California. >> in California. >> in California. >> By who? >> By who? >> By who? >> Uh I I'll pull up the history. I will >> Uh I I'll pull up the history. I will >> Uh I I'll pull up the history. I will say after every election, there are tons say after every election, there are tons say after every election, there are tons of civil lawsuits filed. Like obviously of civil lawsuits filed. Like obviously of civil lawsuits filed. Like obviously Trump filed 60 of 60 when Trump filed 60 of 60 when Trump filed 60 of 60 when >> not in California. Uh I don't know just >> not in California. Uh I don't know just >> not in California. Uh I don't know just made it impossible to do that kind of made it impossible to do that kind of made it impossible to do that kind of audit. He just I think that's because he audit. He just I think that's because he audit. He just I think that's because he was beaten so badly in a democratic was beaten so badly in a democratic was beaten so badly in a democratic state. There was no reason to. But I state. There was no reason to. But I state. There was no reason to. But I don't know why he didn't file in don't know why he didn't file in don't know why he didn't file in California. But he filed 60 of these and California. But he filed 60 of these and California. But he filed 60 of these and everybody kind of does that. They file everybody kind of does that. They file everybody kind of does that. They file these constantly and attorney generals these constantly and attorney generals these constantly and attorney generals can. So in this case, Chimoth, if can. So in this case, Chimoth, if can. So in this case, Chimoth, if there's so much smoke, if this statistic there's so much smoke, if this statistic there's so much smoke, if this statistic seems so improbable, and there was the seems so improbable, and there was the seems so improbable, and there was the Nick Shirley video of going to Skidro Nick Shirley video of going to Skidro Nick Shirley video of going to Skidro and this possibility that they were and this possibility that they were and this possibility that they were paying junkies and people who were high paying junkies and people who were high paying junkies and people who were high to vote, this would be easily catchable. to vote, this would be easily catchable. to vote, this would be easily catchable. Actually, this would take a conspiracy Actually, this would take a conspiracy Actually, this would take a conspiracy for thousands and thousands of votes to for thousands and thousands of votes to for thousands and thousands of votes to have been swung. And that's what we're have been swung. And that's what we're have been swung. And that's what we're saying here. We're saying upwards of saying here. We're saying upwards of saying here. We're saying upwards of 10,000 votes were swung, but certainly 10,000 votes were swung, but certainly 10,000 votes were swung, but certainly 5,000. Good luck. You would need a 5,000. Good luck. You would need a 5,000. Good luck. You would need a conspiracy of hundreds of people or at conspiracy of hundreds of people or at conspiracy of hundreds of people or at least dozens to do that. least dozens to do that. least dozens to do that. >> Good luck going to Skid Row and getting >> Good luck going to Skid Row and getting >> Good luck going to Skid Row and getting some meth addict to go on the record. some meth addict to go on the record. some meth addict to go on the record. >> I think they actually got somebody to go >> I think they actually got somebody to go >> I think they actually got somebody to go on the record actually. That's a that's on the record actually. That's a that's on the record actually. That's a that's the the the >> There's a few videos of this. Yes. >> There's a few videos of this. Yes. >> There's a few videos of this. Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that that's the crazy >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that that's the crazy >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that that's the crazy part about it is they uh are saying part about it is they uh are saying part about it is they uh are saying Skidro people got paid two or three Skidro people got paid two or three Skidro people got paid two or three dollars and that somebody was found dollars and that somebody was found dollars and that somebody was found guilty of this. Brenda Lee Brown guilty of this. Brenda Lee Brown guilty of this. Brenda Lee Brown Armstrong. She plead guilty in 2026 of Armstrong. She plead guilty in 2026 of Armstrong. She plead guilty in 2026 of paying. system is designed to allow paying. system is designed to allow paying. system is designed to allow fraud. It's this it's designed fraud. It's this it's designed fraud. It's this it's designed >> it has been won by 43,000 votes to >> it has been won by 43,000 votes to >> it has been won by 43,000 votes to >> guys. We live in a >> guys. We live in a >> guys. We live in a autocracy in California where one autocracy in California where one autocracy in California where one political machine has shaped the laws so political machine has shaped the laws so political machine has shaped the laws so inexurably inexurably inexurably that whether it's a mayor or it's a that whether it's a mayor or it's a that whether it's a mayor or it's a state legislator or it's a state senator state legislator or it's a state senator state legislator or it's a state senator or it's the governor, it's a one-way or it's the governor, it's a one-way or it's the governor, it's a one-way door. There is only one party that can door. There is only one party that can door. There is only one party that can win win win and we are slowly seeing that that party and we are slowly seeing that that party and we are slowly seeing that that party increasingly increasingly increasingly does not have the ability to govern a does not have the ability to govern a does not have the ability to govern a state this dynamic and this complicated. state this dynamic and this complicated. state this dynamic and this complicated. They've changed the rules to make sure They've changed the rules to make sure They've changed the rules to make sure that that monopoly is enforced. that that monopoly is enforced. that that monopoly is enforced. We have all tacidly approved it by We have all tacidly approved it by We have all tacidly approved it by supporting or voting or not saying supporting or voting or not saying supporting or voting or not saying anything. And the end result has yet to anything. And the end result has yet to anything. And the end result has yet to be unveiled because it's going to take be unveiled because it's going to take be unveiled because it's going to take another couple of decades for all of another couple of decades for all of another couple of decades for all of this rot to really destroy these places. this rot to really destroy these places. this rot to really destroy these places. The reality is the voters probably The reality is the voters probably The reality is the voters probably should be given a chance to have Spencer should be given a chance to have Spencer should be given a chance to have Spencer Pratt push back on what is the machine Pratt push back on what is the machine Pratt push back on what is the machine so that at a minimum what they learn is so that at a minimum what they learn is so that at a minimum what they learn is that the machine wasn't working nearly that the machine wasn't working nearly that the machine wasn't working nearly anywhere close to the way it is anywhere close to the way it is anywhere close to the way it is intended. Instead, what will happen is intended. Instead, what will happen is intended. Instead, what will happen is two people that are in various shapes two people that are in various shapes two people that are in various shapes and forms pretty deeply unqualified and forms pretty deeply unqualified and forms pretty deeply unqualified and very similar now essentially get to and very similar now essentially get to and very similar now essentially get to give you not much of a choice at all. give you not much of a choice at all. give you not much of a choice at all. So, I think the the the sad thing is So, I think the the the sad thing is So, I think the the the sad thing is Freeberg is right and Sax is right. Freeberg is right and Sax is right. Freeberg is right and Sax is right. Freeberg is right. The laws have been Freeberg is right. The laws have been Freeberg is right. The laws have been shaped this way to make legal what would shaped this way to make legal what would shaped this way to make legal what would otherwise be an illegality. and Sax is otherwise be an illegality. and Sax is otherwise be an illegality. and Sax is right, which is that any rational person right, which is that any rational person right, which is that any rational person should look at these laws and say this should look at these laws and say this should look at these laws and say this is fraudulent. is fraudulent. is fraudulent. The unfortunate situation is unless The unfortunate situation is unless The unfortunate situation is unless there's a some cataclysmic decision in there's a some cataclysmic decision in there's a some cataclysmic decision in California, this is what we're stuck California, this is what we're stuck California, this is what we're stuck with. It is time to vote all of these with. It is time to vote all of these with. It is time to vote all of these people out. people out. people out. >> You can't you can't vote. What do you >> You can't you can't vote. What do you >> You can't you can't vote. What do you mean? How you going to do it? Anyone can mean? How you going to do it? Anyone can mean? How you going to do it? Anyone can register anyone can vote. Spencer Pratt register anyone can vote. Spencer Pratt register anyone can vote. Spencer Pratt can do can do can do this. Can I answer Free Brook's this. Can I answer Free Brook's this. Can I answer Free Brook's question? question? question? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> There is one break the glass way and >> There is one break the glass way and >> There is one break the glass way and I've talked to a few of these guys about I've talked to a few of these guys about I've talked to a few of these guys about what that is. what that is. what that is. How do you change the system? You must How do you change the system? You must How do you change the system? You must get somebody at the absolute top of the get somebody at the absolute top of the get somebody at the absolute top of the ticket elected. ticket elected. ticket elected. That person is Steve Hilton. That person is Steve Hilton. That person is Steve Hilton. And if that happens, there is one thing And if that happens, there is one thing And if that happens, there is one thing that Steve Hilton can do to start to that Steve Hilton can do to start to that Steve Hilton can do to start to completely change the way that this completely change the way that this completely change the way that this state is run, which is instantly on day state is run, which is instantly on day state is run, which is instantly on day one declare a state of emergency. If you one declare a state of emergency. If you one declare a state of emergency. If you pull on this thread, what you will find, pull on this thread, what you will find, pull on this thread, what you will find, there are lots of things you can do to there are lots of things you can do to there are lots of things you can do to clean up how California works under a clean up how California works under a clean up how California works under a state of emergency. state of emergency. state of emergency. I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. Yeah, it there's some common sense here. Yeah, it there's some common sense here. Yeah, it there's some common sense here. We shouldn't send ballots out to We shouldn't send ballots out to We shouldn't send ballots out to everybody. that made sense maybe during everybody. that made sense maybe during everybody. that made sense maybe during co and if you can't be bothered to have co and if you can't be bothered to have co and if you can't be bothered to have ID then maybe you shouldn't vote uh and ID then maybe you shouldn't vote uh and ID then maybe you shouldn't vote uh and I don't think that there has been an I don't think that there has been an I don't think that there has been an election a major election that has been election a major election that has been election a major election that has been swung by election fraud the Heritage swung by election fraud the Heritage swung by election fraud the Heritage Foundation has spent many many tens of Foundation has spent many many tens of Foundation has spent many many tens of millions of dollars on this I understand millions of dollars on this I understand millions of dollars on this I understand and they have a really great uh project and they have a really great uh project and they have a really great uh project that tracks this people file lawsuits that tracks this people file lawsuits that tracks this people file lawsuits like Trump did like Al Gore did like Trump did like Al Gore did like Trump did like Al Gore did everybody's always filing lawsuits over everybody's always filing lawsuits over everybody's always filing lawsuits over this it's ever enough to swing an this it's ever enough to swing an this it's ever enough to swing an election, but there's definitely on the election, but there's definitely on the election, but there's definitely on the margins. margins. margins. >> Kennedy versus Nixon. Bro, >> Kennedy versus Nixon. Bro, >> Kennedy versus Nixon. Bro, >> hold on. Let me finish. >> hold on. Let me finish. >> hold on. Let me finish. >> The mob got Kennedy elected versus >> The mob got Kennedy elected versus >> The mob got Kennedy elected versus Nixon. Nixon. Nixon. >> I'm talking in modern history. Yeah, in >> I'm talking in modern history. Yeah, in >> I'm talking in modern history. Yeah, in modern history. modern history. modern history. >> That's pretty famous. That's pretty >> That's pretty famous. That's pretty >> That's pretty famous. That's pretty famous. famous. famous. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, we we can get into if that's true or not we we can get into if that's true or not we we can get into if that's true or not as well. The as well. The as well. The >> Check out Lynon Johnson's history. >> Check out Lynon Johnson's history. >> Check out Lynon Johnson's history. Lyndon Johnson only got elected to the Lyndon Johnson only got elected to the Lyndon Johnson only got elected to the Senate. He got a start in politics Senate. He got a start in politics Senate. He got a start in politics through ballot fraud. through ballot fraud. through ballot fraud. >> We absolutely should have voter ID. We >> We absolutely should have voter ID. We >> We absolutely should have voter ID. We should stop sending everybody one of should stop sending everybody one of should stop sending everybody one of these because the appearance of these because the appearance of these because the appearance of impropriety is the problem here. Both impropriety is the problem here. Both impropriety is the problem here. Both sides crazy new flash news flash sides crazy new flash news flash sides crazy new flash news flash everybody. Both sides cheat. Both sides everybody. Both sides cheat. Both sides everybody. Both sides cheat. Both sides bend the rules. One side does it by bend the rules. One side does it by bend the rules. One side does it by limiting access. The other does it by limiting access. The other does it by limiting access. The other does it by providing too much access. All these providing too much access. All these providing too much access. All these politicians, overwhelming majority of politicians, overwhelming majority of politicians, overwhelming majority of them are unethical. And all they care them are unethical. And all they care them are unethical. And all they care about is getting elected. And they have about is getting elected. And they have about is getting elected. And they have tons of people working for them in both tons of people working for them in both tons of people working for them in both parties to massage these election parties to massage these election parties to massage these election results. And if you get caught, it is a results. And if you get caught, it is a results. And if you get caught, it is a serious penalty. There has not been in serious penalty. There has not been in serious penalty. There has not been in modern history major elections. Go ahead modern history major elections. Go ahead modern history major elections. Go ahead and go to the Heritage Foundation. They and go to the Heritage Foundation. They and go to the Heritage Foundation. They find all the nooks and crannies of find all the nooks and crannies of find all the nooks and crannies of >> You keep using the word fraud like as if >> You keep using the word fraud like as if >> You keep using the word fraud like as if it's a thing, but it's not. I'll tell it's a thing, but it's not. I'll tell it's a thing, but it's not. I'll tell you who's at fraud. you who's at fraud. you who's at fraud. >> No, there's fraud. At [laughter] the end >> No, there's fraud. At [laughter] the end >> No, there's fraud. At [laughter] the end of the day, there is fraud. There are of the day, there is fraud. There are of the day, there is fraud. There are people have been caught doing fraudulent people have been caught doing fraudulent people have been caught doing fraudulent things. things. things. >> The one group that is fundamentally to >> The one group that is fundamentally to >> The one group that is fundamentally to blame is Congress. We have an blame is Congress. We have an blame is Congress. We have an opportunity. There have been opportunity. There have been opportunity. There have been opportunities to pass laws that will opportunities to pass laws that will opportunities to pass laws that will make it illegal for people to vote if make it illegal for people to vote if make it illegal for people to vote if they are not citizens, if they are not they are not citizens, if they are not they are not citizens, if they are not properly registered, and if they don't properly registered, and if they don't properly registered, and if they don't show up with ID. That is a very simple show up with ID. That is a very simple show up with ID. That is a very simple solve to this democratic electoral solve to this democratic electoral solve to this democratic electoral process. We can't have a situation where process. We can't have a situation where process. We can't have a situation where someone is legally allowed to go out and someone is legally allowed to go out and someone is legally allowed to go out and collect a 100 ballots that they find collect a 100 ballots that they find collect a 100 ballots that they find sitting in the lobby of an apartment sitting in the lobby of an apartment sitting in the lobby of an apartment building or for people to register to building or for people to register to building or for people to register to vote with a gym membership card when vote with a gym membership card when vote with a gym membership card when fundamentally the federal government fundamentally the federal government fundamentally the federal government already knows if you're not paying your already knows if you're not paying your already knows if you're not paying your taxes, you're required to have a taxes, you're required to have a taxes, you're required to have a driver's license to drive a car, you driver's license to drive a car, you driver's license to drive a car, you have to have ID, you have to be have to have ID, you have to be have to have ID, you have to be registered in the system to do nearly registered in the system to do nearly registered in the system to do nearly anything and everything in this country anything and everything in this country anything and everything in this country as it is. So to exclude that very simple as it is. So to exclude that very simple as it is. So to exclude that very simple requirement from the most foundational requirement from the most foundational requirement from the most foundational obligation that we all have as citizens obligation that we all have as citizens obligation that we all have as citizens of this country is inherently wrong and of this country is inherently wrong and of this country is inherently wrong and it needs to be addressed by Congress. it needs to be addressed by Congress. it needs to be addressed by Congress. And if Congress fixes it and there are And if Congress fixes it and there are And if Congress fixes it and there are federal laws that create systems that federal laws that create systems that federal laws that create systems that ensure that elections are all about one ensure that elections are all about one ensure that elections are all about one person getting one vote and they're person getting one vote and they're person getting one vote and they're legally allowed to vote, then this legally allowed to vote, then this legally allowed to vote, then this doesn't become an issue. Short of this, doesn't become an issue. Short of this, doesn't become an issue. Short of this, I worry where this goes because over I worry where this goes because over I worry where this goes because over time, the fewer people actually believe time, the fewer people actually believe time, the fewer people actually believe that elections are real. And I hate that elections are real. And I hate that elections are real. And I hate being on here sounding like I'm an being on here sounding like I'm an being on here sounding like I'm an election fear-mongering guy who's election fear-mongering guy who's election fear-mongering guy who's telling people that elections aren't telling people that elections aren't telling people that elections aren't real, but the longer this goes on, the real, but the longer this goes on, the real, but the longer this goes on, the more difficult it will be for people to more difficult it will be for people to more difficult it will be for people to actually have faith in the system that actually have faith in the system that actually have faith in the system that we're all operating within. And that's we're all operating within. And that's we're all operating within. And that's when things get ugly and it needs to be when things get ugly and it needs to be when things get ugly and it needs to be fixed. fixed. fixed. >> Yeah, I'm strongly agreeing. If you >> Yeah, I'm strongly agreeing. If you >> Yeah, I'm strongly agreeing. If you can't be bothered to get a driver's can't be bothered to get a driver's can't be bothered to get a driver's license or a passport, maybe you don't license or a passport, maybe you don't license or a passport, maybe you don't need to vote. Yeah. need to vote. Yeah. need to vote. Yeah. >> Congress can fix it. And they should. >> Congress can fix it. And they should. >> Congress can fix it. And they should. >> Yeah. And and there's, by the way, >> Yeah. And and there's, by the way, >> Yeah. And and there's, by the way, there's a ballot measure in California. there's a ballot measure in California. there's a ballot measure in California. If people in California want this, they If people in California want this, they If people in California want this, they can just vote for the ballot measure. can just vote for the ballot measure. can just vote for the ballot measure. >> You mean the voter ID ballot measure? >> You mean the voter ID ballot measure? >> You mean the voter ID ballot measure? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's very important. Actually, >> Yeah. That's very important. Actually, >> Yeah. That's very important. Actually, look, if that fails, it's kind of our look, if that fails, it's kind of our look, if that fails, it's kind of our last chance to save anything last chance to save anything last chance to save anything >> for California's last chance. Yeah. >> for California's last chance. Yeah. >> for California's last chance. Yeah. Yeah. And you do sound like an your Yeah. And you do sound like an your Yeah. And you do sound like an your entire speech, David, was you sound like entire speech, David, was you sound like entire speech, David, was you sound like an election denier. an election denier. an election denier. >> I don't care what you label it. Look, >> I don't care what you label it. Look, >> I don't care what you label it. Look, the the Democratic party as a whole were the the Democratic party as a whole were the the Democratic party as a whole were election deniers about Trump winning in election deniers about Trump winning in election deniers about Trump winning in 2016. They concocted the whole Russia 2016. They concocted the whole Russia 2016. They concocted the whole Russia gate hoax to basically try and discredit gate hoax to basically try and discredit gate hoax to basically try and discredit his election. his election. his election. >> When you look at the the difference >> When you look at the the difference >> When you look at the the difference between walk-in and mailin ballots, and between walk-in and mailin ballots, and between walk-in and mailin ballots, and I've seen everyone try to argue why I've seen everyone try to argue why I've seen everyone try to argue why that's so different, it doesn't compute that's so different, it doesn't compute that's so different, it doesn't compute for me. That's it. I'm not like trying for me. That's it. I'm not like trying for me. That's it. I'm not like trying to make up a fact. This is the fact. to make up a fact. This is the fact. to make up a fact. This is the fact. Look at this facts on the on the on the Look at this facts on the on the on the Look at this facts on the on the on the screen you're looking at right now. This screen you're looking at right now. This screen you're looking at right now. This is the difference in the data. This data is the difference in the data. This data is the difference in the data. This data tells me that something is wrong. That's tells me that something is wrong. That's tells me that something is wrong. That's it. it. it. >> Obviously, >> Obviously, >> Obviously, >> I'm not trying to I'm not trying to just >> I'm not trying to I'm not trying to just >> I'm not trying to I'm not trying to just fearonger because I don't like who got fearonger because I don't like who got fearonger because I don't like who got elected. I don't give a what goes elected. I don't give a what goes elected. I don't give a what goes on in LA. In fact, I think it's better on in LA. In fact, I think it's better on in LA. In fact, I think it's better for LA if they deal with the socialist for LA if they deal with the socialist for LA if they deal with the socialist mayor for a couple years so they come mayor for a couple years so they come mayor for a couple years so they come out the other side realizing they out the other side realizing they out the other side realizing they shouldn't embrace socialist principles. shouldn't embrace socialist principles. shouldn't embrace socialist principles. I think it's great for the country. I think it's great for the country. I think it's great for the country. Actually, I think it's great for New Actually, I think it's great for New Actually, I think it's great for New York. I think it's great for Seattle. I York. I think it's great for Seattle. I York. I think it's great for Seattle. I think it's great for wherever Minnesota. think it's great for wherever Minnesota. think it's great for wherever Minnesota. Wherever people want to elect socialists Wherever people want to elect socialists Wherever people want to elect socialists in this country, let's run into it. I'm in this country, let's run into it. I'm in this country, let's run into it. I'm all about jumping through the socialist all about jumping through the socialist all about jumping through the socialist well so we jump out the other side like well so we jump out the other side like well so we jump out the other side like the Latin American countries are doing the Latin American countries are doing the Latin American countries are doing now when everyone wakes up and realize now when everyone wakes up and realize now when everyone wakes up and realize how up socialism is because it denies how up socialism is because it denies how up socialism is because it denies everyone the opportunity for economic everyone the opportunity for economic everyone the opportunity for economic mobility. It denies everyone their mobility. It denies everyone their mobility. It denies everyone their individual liberties that this country individual liberties that this country individual liberties that this country was founded on. Socialism is wrong. It's was founded on. Socialism is wrong. It's was founded on. Socialism is wrong. It's broken. It doesn't work. And if you all broken. It doesn't work. And if you all broken. It doesn't work. And if you all want to go through that lesson, do it. want to go through that lesson, do it. want to go through that lesson, do it. Go for it. Let's do it. Let them get Go for it. Let's do it. Let them get Go for it. Let's do it. Let them get elected. But the numbers on that elected. But the numbers on that elected. But the numbers on that election data show me that that's not election data show me that that's not election data show me that that's not what the people wanted. That it's not what the people wanted. That it's not what the people wanted. That it's not very clear or evident to me that that's very clear or evident to me that that's very clear or evident to me that that's what people voted for. And that's where what people voted for. And that's where what people voted for. And that's where I'm like, my god, the system itself has I'm like, my god, the system itself has I'm like, my god, the system itself has become a system of appointment, not a become a system of appointment, not a become a system of appointment, not a system of election. And I get fired up system of election. And I get fired up system of election. And I get fired up about that personally. You want to add about that personally. You want to add about that personally. You want to add anything as we wrap here on this? anything as we wrap here on this? anything as we wrap here on this? >> Yeah. The party told you to reject the >> Yeah. The party told you to reject the >> Yeah. The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was evidence of your eyes and ears. It was evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final most essential command. This their final most essential command. This their final most essential command. This is obvious. Just look at the charts. is obvious. Just look at the charts. is obvious. Just look at the charts. Look at the data. We know something Look at the data. We know something Look at the data. We know something crooked happened. It's statistically crooked happened. It's statistically crooked happened. It's statistically impossible. The only thing we don't know impossible. The only thing we don't know impossible. The only thing we don't know is whether it was illegal fraud or legal is whether it was illegal fraud or legal is whether it was illegal fraud or legal fraud. Meaning they've created so many fraud. Meaning they've created so many fraud. Meaning they've created so many loopholes and so much corruption in the loopholes and so much corruption in the loopholes and so much corruption in the law that what they did is possibly law that what they did is possibly law that what they did is possibly legal. It is still corrupt. It is still legal. It is still corrupt. It is still legal. It is still corrupt. It is still crooked. It is ridiculous. Everyone can crooked. It is ridiculous. Everyone can crooked. It is ridiculous. Everyone can see it. Do not deny the evidence of your see it. Do not deny the evidence of your see it. Do not deny the evidence of your eyes and ears. Even if they call you an eyes and ears. Even if they call you an eyes and ears. Even if they call you an election denier, I personally don't election denier, I personally don't election denier, I personally don't care. I deny it. Spencer Pratt should be care. I deny it. Spencer Pratt should be care. I deny it. Spencer Pratt should be in the runoff. I deny that Ramen won in the runoff. I deny that Ramen won in the runoff. I deny that Ramen won legitimately. legitimately. legitimately. >> The statistics are the statistics and >> The statistics are the statistics and >> The statistics are the statistics and they would scream that you should have they would scream that you should have they would scream that you should have the attorney general of California and the attorney general of California and the attorney general of California and the federal attorney general look into the federal attorney general look into the federal attorney general look into it and if they catch people doing this it and if they catch people doing this it and if they catch people doing this stuff and they have caught one person stuff and they have caught one person stuff and they have caught one person and Nick Shirley went down there and you and Nick Shirley went down there and you and Nick Shirley went down there and you see people on Skid Row, you know, see people on Skid Row, you know, see people on Skid Row, you know, listen, homeless people should have the listen, homeless people should have the listen, homeless people should have the right to vote theoretically. right to vote theoretically. right to vote theoretically. >> Why did Nome just sign a law making >> Why did Nome just sign a law making >> Why did Nome just sign a law making audits like that even harder? audits like that even harder? audits like that even harder? >> Yeah, I'm not defending Newsome here. >> Yeah, I'm not defending Newsome here. >> Yeah, I'm not defending Newsome here. I'm saying where's the attorney general? I'm saying where's the attorney general? I'm saying where's the attorney general? If there is in fact fraud, Trump has the If there is in fact fraud, Trump has the If there is in fact fraud, Trump has the ability with his hands-elected attorney ability with his hands-elected attorney ability with his hands-elected attorney generals to go after this. He controls generals to go after this. He controls generals to go after this. He controls that part of uh you know our our that part of uh you know our our that part of uh you know our our democracy. He should file and they democracy. He should file and they democracy. He should file and they should go figure out what happened should go figure out what happened should go figure out what happened statistically. So Trump, President statistically. So Trump, President statistically. So Trump, President Trump, thank you, President Trump. Go do Trump, thank you, President Trump. Go do Trump, thank you, President Trump. Go do it. Go do it. You got this attorney it. Go do it. You got this attorney it. Go do it. You got this attorney general chasing down everybody else. Go general chasing down everybody else. Go general chasing down everybody else. Go to this election. Use your powers. Audit to this election. Use your powers. Audit to this election. Use your powers. Audit it and find them. Where's President it and find them. Where's President it and find them. Where's President Trump? Trump? Trump? >> You didn't hear my point that the the >> You didn't hear my point that the the >> You didn't hear my point that the the state law just made it harder for the state law just made it harder for the state law just made it harder for the federal government to come in and audit federal government to come in and audit federal government to come in and audit the voter roles. So the voter roles. So the voter roles. So >> yeah, he can still do it. >> yeah, he can still do it. >> yeah, he can still do it. >> I'm sure they will do it. I'm sure >> I'm sure they will do it. I'm sure >> I'm sure they will do it. I'm sure they'll do it if they can. they'll do it if they can. they'll do it if they can. >> Yeah. I mean, trust me, Trump does what >> Yeah. I mean, trust me, Trump does what >> Yeah. I mean, trust me, Trump does what he wants. If we've learned anything, he wants. If we've learned anything, he wants. If we've learned anything, >> he will do what he wants. And he's not >> he will do what he wants. And he's not >> he will do what he wants. And he's not doing this now. doing this now. doing this now. >> What I find amazing is that the media >> What I find amazing is that the media >> What I find amazing is that the media instead of asking tough questions like instead of asking tough questions like instead of asking tough questions like how did this happen? How could the votes how did this happen? How could the votes how did this happen? How could the votes swing so wildly in ballots that were swing so wildly in ballots that were swing so wildly in ballots that were only found after hold on after election only found after hold on after election only found after hold on after election day? The media instead of trying to day? The media instead of trying to day? The media instead of trying to demand answers and demand accountability demand answers and demand accountability demand answers and demand accountability is trying to cover up and say nothing is trying to cover up and say nothing is trying to cover up and say nothing wrong happened here. It's unbelievable. wrong happened here. It's unbelievable. wrong happened here. It's unbelievable. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. >> What is the best theory steelman? What's >> What is the best theory steelman? What's >> What is the best theory steelman? What's the best theory of why this discrepancy? the best theory of why this discrepancy? the best theory of why this discrepancy? >> I mean, we're sitting here talking about >> I mean, we're sitting here talking about >> I mean, we're sitting here talking about it. it. it. >> What's the discrepancy? Anybody have a >> What's the discrepancy? Anybody have a >> What's the discrepancy? Anybody have a steel man of why this discrepancy could steel man of why this discrepancy could steel man of why this discrepancy could have happened that's legitimate? have happened that's legitimate? have happened that's legitimate? anybody. anybody. anybody. >> If the media is hanging on to a snapshot >> If the media is hanging on to a snapshot >> If the media is hanging on to a snapshot of the past where people actually cared of the past where people actually cared of the past where people actually cared what they said and every time that they what they said and every time that they what they said and every time that they can actually can actually can actually reestablish trust, they kind of don't do reestablish trust, they kind of don't do reestablish trust, they kind of don't do it because the people that it because the people that it because the people that they want to curry favor with are they want to curry favor with are they want to curry favor with are willing to play along. So I think what willing to play along. So I think what willing to play along. So I think what happens is the media is like, well, I happens is the media is like, well, I happens is the media is like, well, I have two choices. I can actually say have two choices. I can actually say have two choices. I can actually say that Spencer Pratt should have won or that Spencer Pratt should have won or that Spencer Pratt should have won or could have won or investigate why he could have won or investigate why he could have won or investigate why he didn't win, but then I'm kind of tacitly didn't win, but then I'm kind of tacitly didn't win, but then I'm kind of tacitly supporting Trump. And hold on a second. supporting Trump. And hold on a second. supporting Trump. And hold on a second. I'm supposed to hate Trump. So, no. I'm supposed to hate Trump. So, no. I'm supposed to hate Trump. So, no. Yeah, you know, this is completely Yeah, you know, this is completely Yeah, you know, this is completely normal. Nothing to see here. Everybody normal. Nothing to see here. Everybody normal. Nothing to see here. Everybody moves on, hoping that then they get moves on, hoping that then they get moves on, hoping that then they get ingratiated into the machine, but ingratiated into the machine, but ingratiated into the machine, but they're going to get run over and used they're going to get run over and used they're going to get run over and used like everybody else does, too. So, like everybody else does, too. So, like everybody else does, too. So, >> that's what's happening. Yeah, your >> that's what's happening. Yeah, your >> that's what's happening. Yeah, your point is so spot on, Chimat, that like point is so spot on, Chimat, that like point is so spot on, Chimat, that like if it's so polarized, meaning that if it's so polarized, meaning that if it's so polarized, meaning that there's two polls that if you do there's two polls that if you do there's two polls that if you do question, it's almost like you were question, it's almost like you were question, it's almost like you were being put in the Trump proTrump camp. being put in the Trump proTrump camp. being put in the Trump proTrump camp. Just like the word MAGA is thrown around Just like the word MAGA is thrown around Just like the word MAGA is thrown around like, oh, you're a MAGA guy because like, oh, you're a MAGA guy because like, oh, you're a MAGA guy because you're questioning election integrity. you're questioning election integrity. you're questioning election integrity. This has nothing to do with MAGA. It's This has nothing to do with MAGA. It's This has nothing to do with MAGA. It's just simple conversation about a just simple conversation about a just simple conversation about a particular topic. But if it's diametric particular topic. But if it's diametric particular topic. But if it's diametric to the other camp, you're, you know, you to the other camp, you're, you know, you to the other camp, you're, you know, you must be in that bad camp. And so then must be in that bad camp. And so then must be in that bad camp. And so then they don't want to be put in that camp. they don't want to be put in that camp. they don't want to be put in that camp. It's so true. I'm for mathematical and It's so true. I'm for mathematical and It's so true. I'm for mathematical and statistical literacy and what happened statistical literacy and what happened statistical literacy and what happened here is mathematically and here is mathematically and here is mathematically and statistically. statistically. statistically. >> So nobody has any steel man or concept >> So nobody has any steel man or concept >> So nobody has any steel man or concept of how this could have happened. of how this could have happened. of how this could have happened. >> I can tell you the statistical odds that >> I can tell you the statistical odds that >> I can tell you the statistical odds that this would have happened and it's one in this would have happened and it's one in this would have happened and it's one in a trillion. a trillion. a trillion. >> Okay. What if >> Okay. What if >> Okay. What if >> So are you telling me the one in a >> So are you telling me the one in a >> So are you telling me the one in a trillion shot hit? trillion shot hit? trillion shot hit? >> I I'm asking if there is any I'm not >> I I'm asking if there is any I'm not >> I I'm asking if there is any I'm not >> just just this one time. >> just just this one time. >> just just this one time. >> I'm not I'm asking if there's anybody >> I'm not I'm asking if there's anybody >> I'm not I'm asking if there's anybody who steals this in any way. I'm asking who steals this in any way. I'm asking who steals this in any way. I'm asking I'll tell you what I've heard integrity I'll tell you what I've heard integrity I'll tell you what I've heard integrity of of of >> Why is it so psychologically important >> Why is it so psychologically important >> Why is it so psychologically important for you to cling to the idea for you to cling to the idea for you to cling to the idea >> it's not >> it's not >> it's not elections that California elections are elections that California elections are elections that California elections are completely corruption free after all the completely corruption free after all the completely corruption free after all the things they've clearly done things they've clearly done things they've clearly done >> to corrupt them voter ID you admit >> to corrupt them voter ID you admit >> to corrupt them voter ID you admit there's like it's chalk full of there's like it's chalk full of there's like it's chalk full of loopholes loopholes loopholes >> you ask me why am I holding on to it I'm >> you ask me why am I holding on to it I'm >> you ask me why am I holding on to it I'm not holding on to it for the purpose of not holding on to it for the purpose of not holding on to it for the purpose of discussion and having an intellectually discussion and having an intellectually discussion and having an intellectually honest discussion I'm asking the three honest discussion I'm asking the three honest discussion I'm asking the three of you if there you've heard or if you of you if there you've heard or if you of you if there you've heard or if you have any theory just for the have any theory just for the have any theory just for the rigorousness of the discussion. This rigorousness of the discussion. This rigorousness of the discussion. This isn't my position. isn't my position. isn't my position. >> Where are all the democracy protectors >> Where are all the democracy protectors >> Where are all the democracy protectors in the media now? in the media now? in the media now? >> They all said that they were they were >> They all said that they were they were >> They all said that they were they were the guardian they were the guardians of the guardian they were the guardians of the guardian they were the guardians of democracy. They're going to protect democracy. They're going to protect democracy. They're going to protect democracy. Where are they to ask democracy. Where are they to ask democracy. Where are they to ask question? question? question? >> The only theory that I can think of I'll >> The only theory that I can think of I'll >> The only theory that I can think of I'll steal a minute myself. I because I I steal a minute myself. I because I I steal a minute myself. I because I I think you do need to be rigorous. think you do need to be rigorous. think you do need to be rigorous. >> You go ahead first. Yeah. The the only >> You go ahead first. Yeah. The the only >> You go ahead first. Yeah. The the only thing I can think of is her ground game thing I can think of is her ground game thing I can think of is her ground game is more sophisticated because they've is more sophisticated because they've is more sophisticated because they've been at it longer than Spencer Pratt and been at it longer than Spencer Pratt and been at it longer than Spencer Pratt and he didn't have a ground game that took he didn't have a ground game that took he didn't have a ground game that took this in since he's a non-traditional this in since he's a non-traditional this in since he's a non-traditional firsttime candidate. That's the only firsttime candidate. That's the only firsttime candidate. That's the only thing I can think of. thing I can think of. thing I can think of. >> Sophisticated a coded word for he wasn't >> Sophisticated a coded word for he wasn't >> Sophisticated a coded word for he wasn't bribing Skidro homeless judge. bribing Skidro homeless judge. bribing Skidro homeless judge. >> No, he just has it. He doesn't have >> No, he just has it. He doesn't have >> No, he just has it. He doesn't have [laughter] an election machine to [laughter] an election machine to [laughter] an election machine to collect ballots and collecting ballots collect ballots and collecting ballots collect ballots and collecting ballots is legal. That's the That's the is legal. That's the That's the is legal. That's the That's the question. question. question. >> She had a better cheating operation. >> She had a better cheating operation. >> She had a better cheating operation. Obviously, Obviously, Obviously, >> we're saying the same thing. We're not >> we're saying the same thing. We're not >> we're saying the same thing. We're not actually saying anything different. actually saying anything different. actually saying anything different. >> The Twitter commentary was that people >> The Twitter commentary was that people >> The Twitter commentary was that people were waiting were waiting were waiting because there's so many people that are because there's so many people that are because there's so many people that are so against Spencer Pratt, but they so against Spencer Pratt, but they so against Spencer Pratt, but they wanted to be sure that they voted for wanted to be sure that they voted for wanted to be sure that they voted for the right candidate, whether it's Ramen the right candidate, whether it's Ramen the right candidate, whether it's Ramen or Bass. And so the people that held or Bass. And so the people that held or Bass. And so the people that held their ballots the longest saw the their ballots the longest saw the their ballots the longest saw the polling data that Bass was going to win. polling data that Bass was going to win. polling data that Bass was going to win. That's why they all voted for Ramen last That's why they all voted for Ramen last That's why they all voted for Ramen last minute was to try and promote her to minute was to try and promote her to minute was to try and promote her to make sure make sure make sure >> has been shipped because of the you >> has been shipped because of the you >> has been shipped because of the you could have two Democrats at the top of could have two Democrats at the top of could have two Democrats at the top of the ticket. the ticket. the ticket. >> That's right. And they didn't want >> That's right. And they didn't want >> That's right. And they didn't want Spencer Pratt to have a shot at the Spencer Pratt to have a shot at the Spencer Pratt to have a shot at the general. And that by the way, you know, general. And that by the way, you know, general. And that by the way, you know, I mean, if you saw my interview with I mean, if you saw my interview with I mean, if you saw my interview with Spencer Pratt, he said Ramen registered Spencer Pratt, he said Ramen registered Spencer Pratt, he said Ramen registered one hour before the deadline and she's one hour before the deadline and she's one hour before the deadline and she's friends with Bass and that the whole friends with Bass and that the whole friends with Bass and that the whole point was to keep him from actually point was to keep him from actually point was to keep him from actually making it onto the general ballot. So making it onto the general ballot. So making it onto the general ballot. So that some of the coordination that that some of the coordination that that some of the coordination that people were making in their minds was people were making in their minds was people were making in their minds was like, we got to make sure we vote for like, we got to make sure we vote for like, we got to make sure we vote for the two Democrats and then they'll the two Democrats and then they'll the two Democrats and then they'll figure out, hey, is it wrong? Let's just figure out, hey, is it wrong? Let's just figure out, hey, is it wrong? Let's just box him out. box him out. box him out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Got it. >> Got it. >> Got it. >> Which is like why they all waited till >> Which is like why they all waited till >> Which is like why they all waited till the last minute to vote for to vote for the last minute to vote for to vote for the last minute to vote for to vote for how do you coordinate something like how do you coordinate something like how do you coordinate something like that? That that's always the question I that? That that's always the question I that? That that's always the question I have with these like have with these like have with these like >> these people are all brilliant geniuses. >> these people are all brilliant geniuses. >> these people are all brilliant geniuses. It's it's hundreds of thousands of It's it's hundreds of thousands of It's it's hundreds of thousands of brilliant geniuses row that out. brilliant geniuses row that out. brilliant geniuses row that out. >> Yeah, there's a chat group. I mean, it's >> Yeah, there's a chat group. I mean, it's >> Yeah, there's a chat group. I mean, it's not that complicated. not that complicated. not that complicated. >> Alan Harvesters did it. what Freeberg >> Alan Harvesters did it. what Freeberg >> Alan Harvesters did it. what Freeberg said just happened. It's just that the said just happened. It's just that the said just happened. It's just that the ballot harvesters did it, not the actual ballot harvesters did it, not the actual ballot harvesters did it, not the actual voters, obviously. voters, obviously. voters, obviously. >> And ballot harvesting is legal, but it's >> And ballot harvesting is legal, but it's >> And ballot harvesting is legal, but it's sketchy and maybe they And if there are sketchy and maybe they And if there are sketchy and maybe they And if there are ballot harvesters, I think that Trump ballot harvesters, I think that Trump ballot harvesters, I think that Trump and the DOJ can catch these people. and the DOJ can catch these people. and the DOJ can catch these people. >> How the is it legal that someone can go >> How the is it legal that someone can go >> How the is it legal that someone can go out and collect other people's ballots out and collect other people's ballots out and collect other people's ballots and fill them out and send them in? It's and fill them out and send them in? It's and fill them out and send them in? It's the craziest to me. the craziest to me. the craziest to me. >> No evidence of fraud right now. >> No evidence of fraud right now. >> No evidence of fraud right now. Statistics don't look good. Donald J. Statistics don't look good. Donald J. Statistics don't look good. Donald J. Trump, you control the Department of Trump, you control the Department of Trump, you control the Department of Justice. Go investigate it. Justice. Go investigate it. Justice. Go investigate it. >> Okay. I love you guys, but I'm hungry. I >> Okay. I love you guys, but I'm hungry. I >> Okay. I love you guys, but I'm hungry. I got to go. This has been got to go. This has been got to go. This has been >> an amazing episode of the Allin Podcast. >> an amazing episode of the Allin Podcast. >> an amazing episode of the Allin Podcast. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. >> Love you boys. Byebye. >> Love you boys. Byebye. >> Love you boys. Byebye. >> Let your winners ride. [music] [music] [music] >> We open sourced it to the fans and >> We open sourced it to the fans and >> We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. [music] >> Besties are gone. >> Besties are gone. >> That is my dog taking [music] a notice >> That is my dog taking [music] a notice >> That is my dog taking [music] a notice in your driveway. >> Oh man, my habitasher will meet me up. >> Oh man, my habitasher will meet me up. [music] [music] [music] >> We should all just get a room and just >> We should all just get a room and just >> We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all have one big huge orgy cuz they're all have one big huge orgy cuz they're all just useless. It's like this like sexual just useless. It's like this like sexual just useless. It's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release tension that we just need to release tension that we just need to release somehow. somehow. somehow. Wet your Wet your Wet your wet feet. wet feet. wet feet. [laughter] We need to get Mercy's going [laughter] We need to get Mercy's going [laughter] We need to get Mercy's going all in. all in. all in. [music]