AI Won't Take Your Job—It Will Make You the CEO | The a16z Show

AI doesn't take your job. AI makes you AI doesn't take your job. AI makes you the CEO. The problem is AI is a shortcut the CEO. The problem is AI is a shortcut the CEO. The problem is AI is a shortcut and a shortcut is good except when it's and a shortcut is good except when it's and a shortcut is good except when it's bad. If you don't know how to go the bad. If you don't know how to go the bad. If you don't know how to go the long way around, then you can't debug long way around, then you can't debug long way around, then you can't debug the AI. the AI. the AI. >> Do we not think that AIs are just going >> Do we not think that AIs are just going >> Do we not think that AIs are just going to be also better at taste and agency? to be also better at taste and agency? to be also better at taste and agency? >> I don't think that's true on a >> I don't think that's true on a >> I don't think that's true on a short-term basis. Humans are the sensor short-term basis. Humans are the sensor short-term basis. Humans are the sensor A is the actuator. So, it's like a human A is the actuator. So, it's like a human A is the actuator. So, it's like a human machine synthesis. What's taste? Taste machine synthesis. What's taste? Taste machine synthesis. What's taste? Taste the sense. And that is what AI can't yet the sense. And that is what AI can't yet the sense. And that is what AI can't yet do. do. do. >> What happens when AI really achieves its >> What happens when AI really achieves its >> What happens when AI really achieves its potential? Will LLM get us to AGI in potential? Will LLM get us to AGI in potential? Will LLM get us to AGI in some capacity? Uh, no, no, actually the some capacity? Uh, no, no, actually the some capacity? Uh, no, no, actually the opposite. TLDDR is >> I want to start by talking about the the >> I want to start by talking about the the AI economy and I'm curious if you think AI economy and I'm curious if you think AI economy and I'm curious if you think it will look more like um the internet it will look more like um the internet it will look more like um the internet economy where apps um applications take economy where apps um applications take economy where apps um applications take most of the the the the value or the most of the the the the value or the most of the the the the value or the cloud economy where there's kind of a cloud economy where there's kind of a cloud economy where there's kind of a you know infrastructure takes most of you know infrastructure takes most of you know infrastructure takes most of the value or it's more distributed. You the value or it's more distributed. You the value or it's more distributed. You know, there's an argument that the the know, there's an argument that the the know, there's an argument that the the big labs will will take it all because big labs will will take it all because big labs will will take it all because they have all the capital, they have the they have all the capital, they have the they have all the capital, they have the compute, they've vertically inte compute, they've vertically inte compute, they've vertically inte vertically integrated. But there's also vertically integrated. But there's also vertically integrated. But there's also an argument that hey, um maybe they an argument that hey, um maybe they an argument that hey, um maybe they won't because you distillation is like won't because you distillation is like won't because you distillation is like 98% cheaper than than it is to to build 98% cheaper than than it is to to build 98% cheaper than than it is to to build a model. You know, open source catches a model. You know, open source catches a model. You know, open source catches up and apps, you know, maybe control the up and apps, you know, maybe control the up and apps, you know, maybe control the the user relationship. How do you think the user relationship. How do you think the user relationship. How do you think this economy is going to play out? this economy is going to play out? this economy is going to play out? >> Great question. So I do think that at >> Great question. So I do think that at >> Great question. So I do think that at least a very large percentage of the least a very large percentage of the least a very large percentage of the future is going to be distillation and future is going to be distillation and future is going to be distillation and decentralization decentralization decentralization uh because you know as anthropic said uh because you know as anthropic said uh because you know as anthropic said distillation attacks work on their thing distillation attacks work on their thing distillation attacks work on their thing right and so a relatively small number right and so a relatively small number right and so a relatively small number of API queries helps to kind of distill of API queries helps to kind of distill of API queries helps to kind of distill a large model into something small and a large model into something small and a large model into something small and it's very hard to stop that right it's very hard to stop that right it's very hard to stop that right because you're stopping queries from because you're stopping queries from because you're stopping queries from coming back you'd have to somehow detect coming back you'd have to somehow detect coming back you'd have to somehow detect that or what have you right and it's that or what have you right and it's that or what have you right and it's also it's hard to morally stop it also it's hard to morally stop it also it's hard to morally stop it Because what do they do? They copy the Because what do they do? They copy the Because what do they do? They copy the whole internet and put it into their whole internet and put it into their whole internet and put it into their thing, right? So talking about stopping thing, right? So talking about stopping thing, right? So talking about stopping the copying. It's like Facebook or the copying. It's like Facebook or the copying. It's like Facebook or LinkedIn stopping someone's from LinkedIn stopping someone's from LinkedIn stopping someone's from scraping what they scraped, you know, scraping what they scraped, you know, scraping what they scraped, you know, right? Like uh Facebook scraped all right? Like uh Facebook scraped all right? Like uh Facebook scraped all these Harvard social networks or Google these Harvard social networks or Google these Harvard social networks or Google Google scraped the entire internet, Google scraped the entire internet, Google scraped the entire internet, built a Google index. I get why they built a Google index. I get why they built a Google index. I get why they want to do it, but it's hard to hard to want to do it, but it's hard to hard to want to do it, but it's hard to hard to support that. Okay. So the other thing support that. Okay. So the other thing support that. Okay. So the other thing is I think the future is personal, is I think the future is personal, is I think the future is personal, private, programmable because AI is so private, programmable because AI is so private, programmable because AI is so powerful that you want to use it within powerful that you want to use it within powerful that you want to use it within the trusted tribe for a variety of the trusted tribe for a variety of the trusted tribe for a variety of reasons. First is it doesn't miss okay reasons. First is it doesn't miss okay reasons. First is it doesn't miss okay or rather it doesn't miss small things or rather it doesn't miss small things or rather it doesn't miss small things in large data sets and things that were in large data sets and things that were in large data sets and things that were effectively secure through obscurity. A effectively secure through obscurity. A effectively secure through obscurity. A small example but an important one is small example but an important one is small example but an important one is the Jmail thing, right? like the Jeffrey the Jmail thing, right? like the Jeffrey the Jmail thing, right? like the Jeffrey Epstein thing, you can query like this Epstein thing, you can query like this Epstein thing, you can query like this guy had never thought that all of his guy had never thought that all of his guy had never thought that all of his emails would be publicly indexed and emails would be publicly indexed and emails would be publicly indexed and searchable by by AI 10 years later or searchable by by AI 10 years later or searchable by by AI 10 years later or what have you, right? So you can issue what have you, right? So you can issue what have you, right? So you can issue queries that will synthesize information queries that will synthesize information queries that will synthesize information across across across thousands of emails or whatever and thousands of emails or whatever and thousands of emails or whatever and build a story right then and there. build a story right then and there. build a story right then and there. Okay. Okay. Okay. So what that means is it's not just So what that means is it's not just So what that means is it's not just surveillance. It's what the French call surveillance. It's what the French call surveillance. It's what the French call surveillance. Surveillance from below or surveillance. Surveillance from below or surveillance. Surveillance from below or even the German Bentham panopticon where even the German Bentham panopticon where even the German Bentham panopticon where everybody's watching each other. Any everybody's watching each other. Any everybody's watching each other. Any information that's in the public gets information that's in the public gets information that's in the public gets indexed and then put into these guys indexed and then put into these guys indexed and then put into these guys where people can stalk each other and so where people can stalk each other and so where people can stalk each other and so on and so forth. And then what that on and so forth. And then what that on and so forth. And then what that means is the commons becomes a hall of means is the commons becomes a hall of means is the commons becomes a hall of mirrors with all kinds of pseudonyms and mirrors with all kinds of pseudonyms and mirrors with all kinds of pseudonyms and so people retreat back to caves and so people retreat back to caves and so people retreat back to caves and tribes. Okay. So within that trusted tribes. Okay. So within that trusted tribes. Okay. So within that trusted tribe, yes, if you share all your code tribe, yes, if you share all your code tribe, yes, if you share all your code within the trusted tribe, you share your within the trusted tribe, you share your within the trusted tribe, you share your whole codebase, boom, you can zip along. whole codebase, boom, you can zip along. whole codebase, boom, you can zip along. And so AI increases productivity within And so AI increases productivity within And so AI increases productivity within the trusted tribe. But outside the the trusted tribe. But outside the the trusted tribe. But outside the trusted tribe, aren't you getting a ton trusted tribe, aren't you getting a ton trusted tribe, aren't you getting a ton of AI spam and AI, you know, AI spam of AI spam and AI, you know, AI spam of AI spam and AI, you know, AI spam emails, AI spam replies, right? emails, AI spam replies, right? emails, AI spam replies, right? Lowquality slide decks that are sent Lowquality slide decks that are sent Lowquality slide decks that are sent over. You know, people will send me over. You know, people will send me over. You know, people will send me these slide decks and and I love AI. these slide decks and and I love AI. these slide decks and and I love AI. Okay? And you know my reaction is to Okay? And you know my reaction is to Okay? And you know my reaction is to seeing AI in a slide deck. seeing AI in a slide deck. seeing AI in a slide deck. >> What? What? Excitement? >> What? What? Excitement? >> What? What? Excitement? >> Uh, no. No, actually the opposite. When >> Uh, no. No, actually the opposite. When >> Uh, no. No, actually the opposite. When I see AI text in a slide deck, and you I see AI text in a slide deck, and you I see AI text in a slide deck, and you can immediately see it. Why? Because no can immediately see it. Why? Because no can immediately see it. Why? Because no matter how advanced AI has gotten, matter how advanced AI has gotten, matter how advanced AI has gotten, there's a generic look to it. You know there's a generic look to it. You know there's a generic look to it. You know what I mean? It's it's like somebody who what I mean? It's it's like somebody who what I mean? It's it's like somebody who doesn't change the Windows default doesn't change the Windows default doesn't change the Windows default desktop wallpaper, right? Or the Apple desktop wallpaper, right? Or the Apple desktop wallpaper, right? Or the Apple default. Like, you can most people don't default. Like, you can most people don't default. Like, you can most people don't change defaults. change defaults. change defaults. So default AI So default AI So default AI looks like AI no matter where the level looks like AI no matter where the level looks like AI no matter where the level of it is. Do you know what I'm saying? of it is. Do you know what I'm saying? of it is. Do you know what I'm saying? Like and so because of that when I see Like and so because of that when I see Like and so because of that when I see an AI slide deck and it's got it's not an AI slide deck and it's got it's not an AI slide deck and it's got it's not this, it's that or it's just got like a this, it's that or it's just got like a this, it's that or it's just got like a wall of text, right? AI can generate wall of text, right? AI can generate wall of text, right? AI can generate what I call Lauram Ipsum, but it's what I call Lauram Ipsum, but it's what I call Lauram Ipsum, but it's Lauram AIPSM. Okay. When I see that and Lauram AIPSM. Okay. When I see that and Lauram AIPSM. Okay. When I see that and you know it's it's AI text or AI images, you know it's it's AI text or AI images, you know it's it's AI text or AI images, I think they're lazy, stupid, or evil. I think they're lazy, stupid, or evil. I think they're lazy, stupid, or evil. Okay, lazy because they just hit a few Okay, lazy because they just hit a few Okay, lazy because they just hit a few characters and then they throw some characters and then they throw some characters and then they throw some thing over and they didn't, you know, thing over and they didn't, you know, thing over and they didn't, you know, like the Mark Twain thing of uh I didn't like the Mark Twain thing of uh I didn't like the Mark Twain thing of uh I didn't have time to write you a short message, have time to write you a short message, have time to write you a short message, so I wrote you sent you a long one, so I wrote you sent you a long one, so I wrote you sent you a long one, right? I didn't have time to write you a right? I didn't have time to write you a right? I didn't have time to write you a short letter. The whole point is short letter. The whole point is short letter. The whole point is concision is very valuable. So, they're concision is very valuable. So, they're concision is very valuable. So, they're lazy because they didn't actually put in lazy because they didn't actually put in lazy because they didn't actually put in the time to make it concise and so they the time to make it concise and so they the time to make it concise and so they sent me some blah like it's almost like sent me some blah like it's almost like sent me some blah like it's almost like pasting in a search result. Or they're pasting in a search result. Or they're pasting in a search result. Or they're stupid because they uh they don't stupid because they uh they don't stupid because they uh they don't understand that I can tell the understand that I can tell the understand that I can tell the difference instantly between AI slop difference instantly between AI slop difference instantly between AI slop versus something that had some care go versus something that had some care go versus something that had some care go into it. Or they're evil where they're into it. Or they're evil where they're into it. Or they're evil where they're trying to get something over on me and trying to get something over on me and trying to get something over on me and try to send something that's clearly try to send something that's clearly try to send something that's clearly fake or not properly diligent and so on fake or not properly diligent and so on fake or not properly diligent and so on and so forth. And the thing is, if I and so forth. And the thing is, if I and so forth. And the thing is, if I have that reaction, okay, as one of the have that reaction, okay, as one of the have that reaction, okay, as one of the most pro tech people out there, pro most pro tech people out there, pro most pro tech people out there, pro tech, pro AI, see all the benefits of tech, pro AI, see all the benefits of tech, pro AI, see all the benefits of AI, I can only imagine AI, I can only imagine AI, I can only imagine how mad anti-AI people will be, right? how mad anti-AI people will be, right? how mad anti-AI people will be, right? Where they can't see the upsides of a Where they can't see the upsides of a Where they can't see the upsides of a thing, right? They can only see the very thing, right? They can only see the very thing, right? They can only see the very real downsides, right? And just to just real downsides, right? And just to just real downsides, right? And just to just to say why that that those happen. AI is to say why that that those happen. AI is to say why that that those happen. AI is for AI does reduce the cost of for AI does reduce the cost of for AI does reduce the cost of generation but it increases the cost of generation but it increases the cost of generation but it increases the cost of verification verification verification and many markets like for example and many markets like for example and many markets like for example quickly generating a resume is not that quickly generating a resume is not that quickly generating a resume is not that much better than just writing it much better than just writing it much better than just writing it yourself. But now verifying a resume has yourself. But now verifying a resume has yourself. But now verifying a resume has gone up and to the right or like you gone up and to the right or like you gone up and to the right or like you know right so because it's something know right so because it's something know right so because it's something where it used to be that somebody would where it used to be that somebody would where it used to be that somebody would have to sort of have a certain have to sort of have a certain have to sort of have a certain vocabulary vocabulary vocabulary to be able to write a well done cover to be able to write a well done cover to be able to write a well done cover letter or resume or so on and so forth. letter or resume or so on and so forth. letter or resume or so on and so forth. And now you have to spend more energy And now you have to spend more energy And now you have to spend more energy parsing that because they can have a parsing that because they can have a parsing that because they can have a similar chrome of something that kind of similar chrome of something that kind of similar chrome of something that kind of looks good right so now you have to very looks good right so now you have to very looks good right so now you have to very closely read it. So you have to spend closely read it. So you have to spend closely read it. So you have to spend you can still do it but you have spend you can still do it but you have spend you can still do it but you have spend more energy on verification. So what I more energy on verification. So what I more energy on verification. So what I do for example is I fly everybody out do for example is I fly everybody out do for example is I fly everybody out for interviews first. I have do in for interviews first. I have do in for interviews first. I have do in person and I give them proctored exams person and I give them proctored exams person and I give them proctored exams offline exams offline exams offline exams because they can AI the online and just because they can AI the online and just because they can AI the online and just the credible threat of doing the offline the credible threat of doing the offline the credible threat of doing the offline means they don't use AI on the online means they don't use AI on the online means they don't use AI on the online exam for example right and so AI is exam for example right and so AI is exam for example right and so AI is going to create tons of jobs in going to create tons of jobs in going to create tons of jobs in proctoring and verification. This brings proctoring and verification. This brings proctoring and verification. This brings me back to where's the future of AI. I me back to where's the future of AI. I me back to where's the future of AI. I actually think AI makes the internet a actually think AI makes the internet a actually think AI makes the internet a lot more like the Chinese internet. You lot more like the Chinese internet. You lot more like the Chinese internet. You know why? know why? know why? >> Why? Chinese companies. >> Why? Chinese companies. >> Why? Chinese companies. If you look at the Chinese tech If you look at the Chinese tech If you look at the Chinese tech ecosystem, and many Americans aren't ecosystem, and many Americans aren't ecosystem, and many Americans aren't familiar with it, I'd recommend, it's a familiar with it, I'd recommend, it's a familiar with it, I'd recommend, it's a little bit dated now, but read Kyu Lee's little bit dated now, but read Kyu Lee's little bit dated now, but read Kyu Lee's book, AI Superpowers from several years book, AI Superpowers from several years book, AI Superpowers from several years ago. Okay. The main thing about Kyu ago. Okay. The main thing about Kyu ago. Okay. The main thing about Kyu Lee's book is it has a history of the Lee's book is it has a history of the Lee's book is it has a history of the Chinese tech ecosystem where, for Chinese tech ecosystem where, for Chinese tech ecosystem where, for example, you and me being in tech, we example, you and me being in tech, we example, you and me being in tech, we kind of know how, you know, Microsoft kind of know how, you know, Microsoft kind of know how, you know, Microsoft came up, Apple came up, Google, came up, Apple came up, Google, came up, Apple came up, Google, Facebook, you know, Amazon, whatever. We Facebook, you know, Amazon, whatever. We Facebook, you know, Amazon, whatever. We have we have some idea of the history. have we have some idea of the history. have we have some idea of the history. And that history is important because And that history is important because And that history is important because you know there's things that worked in you know there's things that worked in you know there's things that worked in the past that didn't work today and now the past that didn't work today and now the past that didn't work today and now they can work and so on and so forth. they can work and so on and so forth. they can work and so on and so forth. The Chinese tech ecosystem is like the The Chinese tech ecosystem is like the The Chinese tech ecosystem is like the Galapagos Islands where many of the same Galapagos Islands where many of the same Galapagos Islands where many of the same kinds of things exist but in different kinds of things exist but in different kinds of things exist but in different form. For example, Mtoan which is like form. For example, Mtoan which is like form. For example, Mtoan which is like the closest way of putting it the the closest way of putting it the the closest way of putting it the Chinese Group on but if Groupon was Chinese Group on but if Groupon was Chinese Group on but if Groupon was executing at like hundred billion20 executing at like hundred billion20 executing at like hundred billion20 billion dollar scale you know so they're billion dollar scale you know so they're billion dollar scale you know so they're very competent like if Groupon and Door very competent like if Groupon and Door very competent like if Groupon and Door Dash and so on and so forth all became Dash and so on and so forth all became Dash and so on and so forth all became integrated into one amazing kind of app integrated into one amazing kind of app integrated into one amazing kind of app right the point about the Chinese tech right the point about the Chinese tech right the point about the Chinese tech ecosystem is because they arose in a low ecosystem is because they arose in a low ecosystem is because they arose in a low trust society they don't have SAS not in trust society they don't have SAS not in trust society they don't have SAS not in the same way that we do instead because the same way that we do instead because the same way that we do instead because if oh my data is on their servers well if oh my data is on their servers well if oh my data is on their servers well they're probably easedropping on me, they're probably easedropping on me, they're probably easedropping on me, right? My days on their servers, they're right? My days on their servers, they're right? My days on their servers, they're probably going to copy my stuff, right? probably going to copy my stuff, right? probably going to copy my stuff, right? They just assume that the other guy on They just assume that the other guy on They just assume that the other guy on their side is going to look at their their side is going to look at their their side is going to look at their stuff unless it's like their close stuff unless it's like their close stuff unless it's like their close friend or something like that. And so friend or something like that. And so friend or something like that. And so because of that, everybody codes their because of that, everybody codes their because of that, everybody codes their own stuff, own stuff, own stuff, which obviously has a frictional cost to which obviously has a frictional cost to which obviously has a frictional cost to it, right? Because trust reduces it, right? Because trust reduces it, right? Because trust reduces transaction costs. transaction costs. transaction costs. However, so they have to rebuild, they However, so they have to rebuild, they However, so they have to rebuild, they have to reinvent the wheel over and over have to reinvent the wheel over and over have to reinvent the wheel over and over again. They have less division of labor again. They have less division of labor again. They have less division of labor and so on and so forth. software isn't and so on and so forth. software isn't and so on and so forth. software isn't as good because they have to keep as good because they have to keep as good because they have to keep rewriting the software. rewriting the software. rewriting the software. Now with AI, many companies can do Now with AI, many companies can do Now with AI, many companies can do something like that. Like a non-Chinese something like that. Like a non-Chinese something like that. Like a non-Chinese tech company can be like a Chinese tech tech company can be like a Chinese tech tech company can be like a Chinese tech company where it can have a lot more, company where it can have a lot more, company where it can have a lot more, let's call it digital autoarchy, let's call it digital autoarchy, let's call it digital autoarchy, okay? You have high tariff barriers on okay? You have high tariff barriers on okay? You have high tariff barriers on the outside world, so to speak, right? the outside world, so to speak, right? the outside world, so to speak, right? And you just, you know, the build versus And you just, you know, the build versus And you just, you know, the build versus buy question has always been there. Do buy question has always been there. Do buy question has always been there. Do you build it yourself or do you buy it? you build it yourself or do you buy it? you build it yourself or do you buy it? And it does mean that you can build more And it does mean that you can build more And it does mean that you can build more internal tools with emphasis on internal internal tools with emphasis on internal internal tools with emphasis on internal tools. And the reason I say that is what tools. And the reason I say that is what tools. And the reason I say that is what I find AI great for I find AI great for I find AI great for as of today. Um visuals over verbal, as of today. Um visuals over verbal, as of today. Um visuals over verbal, right? It's great for images and video right? It's great for images and video right? It's great for images and video as opposed to big blocks of verbal text. as opposed to big blocks of verbal text. as opposed to big blocks of verbal text. Why images and video? We have built-in Why images and video? We have built-in Why images and video? We have built-in GPUs so we can instantly see if GPUs so we can instantly see if GPUs so we can instantly see if something is wrong like the hands are something is wrong like the hands are something is wrong like the hands are messed up or something like that in an messed up or something like that in an messed up or something like that in an image, right? So you can you can quickly image, right? So you can you can quickly image, right? So you can you can quickly verification is relatively cheap verification is relatively cheap verification is relatively cheap visually, right? Um, for example, if you visually, right? Um, for example, if you visually, right? Um, for example, if you look at a piece of paper and and it's look at a piece of paper and and it's look at a piece of paper and and it's got static or something on it, right? got static or something on it, right? got static or something on it, right? Like a crumpled piece of paper versus if Like a crumpled piece of paper versus if Like a crumpled piece of paper versus if you look at two three faces. Our brains you look at two three faces. Our brains you look at two three faces. Our brains are optimized for checking very subtle are optimized for checking very subtle are optimized for checking very subtle things off in faces, but not in crumpled things off in faces, but not in crumpled things off in faces, but not in crumpled up pieces of paper. You know, those up pieces of paper. You know, those up pieces of paper. You know, those that's a pattern of noise that we that's a pattern of noise that we that's a pattern of noise that we wouldn't be able to tell. And that also wouldn't be able to tell. And that also wouldn't be able to tell. And that also extends to web pages. For example, you extends to web pages. For example, you extends to web pages. For example, you can quickly look at a web page that AI can quickly look at a web page that AI can quickly look at a web page that AI generates or a mobile app and you can generates or a mobile app and you can generates or a mobile app and you can see if the UX looks janky, which it see if the UX looks janky, which it see if the UX looks janky, which it often does, right? And then you can you often does, right? And then you can you often does, right? And then you can you see that it's broken there and you can see that it's broken there and you can see that it's broken there and you can fix it. Also front-end stuff has lower fix it. Also front-end stuff has lower fix it. Also front-end stuff has lower risk than verbal stuff, right? For the risk than verbal stuff, right? For the risk than verbal stuff, right? For the back end, you know, if you are verifying back end, you know, if you are verifying back end, you know, if you are verifying each pull request one at a time, fine. each pull request one at a time, fine. each pull request one at a time, fine. But people who've tried to go full auto But people who've tried to go full auto But people who've tried to go full auto on AI, you saw the Amazon thing where on AI, you saw the Amazon thing where on AI, you saw the Amazon thing where they've called all hands because of the they've called all hands because of the they've called all hands because of the outages. outages. outages. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The problem is AI is a shortcut. >> The problem is AI is a shortcut. >> The problem is AI is a shortcut. And a shortcut is good except when it's And a shortcut is good except when it's And a shortcut is good except when it's bad. So the more expert you are, you can bad. So the more expert you are, you can bad. So the more expert you are, you can use a shortcut. For example, um if you use a shortcut. For example, um if you use a shortcut. For example, um if you just memorized e to the i pi + 1 equals just memorized e to the i pi + 1 equals just memorized e to the i pi + 1 equals z, z, z, you could just rattle that off. But if I you could just rattle that off. But if I you could just rattle that off. But if I asked you to prove it from first asked you to prove it from first asked you to prove it from first principles, right, you'd have to know principles, right, you'd have to know principles, right, you'd have to know the definition of a complex exponential the definition of a complex exponential the definition of a complex exponential and you know like uh how the the and you know like uh how the the and you know like uh how the the exponential generates to a function of exponential generates to a function of exponential generates to a function of complex variable and you know all that complex variable and you know all that complex variable and you know all that kind of stuff, right? Um, kind of stuff, right? Um, kind of stuff, right? Um, and so if you like our generation that and so if you like our generation that and so if you like our generation that is a preAI generation learn all that is a preAI generation learn all that is a preAI generation learn all that stuff offline stuff offline stuff offline and we can actually use the shortcut and we can actually use the shortcut and we can actually use the shortcut because we know how to go the long way because we know how to go the long way because we know how to go the long way around. around. around. If you don't know how to go the long way If you don't know how to go the long way If you don't know how to go the long way around, around, around, AI is a shortcut. Then you just don't AI is a shortcut. Then you just don't AI is a shortcut. Then you just don't really actually know. You can't debug really actually know. You can't debug really actually know. You can't debug the AI. And I I think the biggest the AI. And I I think the biggest the AI. And I I think the biggest difference between me versus Daario or difference between me versus Daario or difference between me versus Daario or you know like uh you know basically like you know like uh you know basically like you know like uh you know basically like his view of the world perhaps his view of the world perhaps his view of the world perhaps is I think AI is built for the harness is I think AI is built for the harness is I think AI is built for the harness at least for now. May maybe you know by at least for now. May maybe you know by at least for now. May maybe you know by the way he's an amazing engineer and the way he's an amazing engineer and the way he's an amazing engineer and entrepreneur and so on. Maybe I'm wrong. entrepreneur and so on. Maybe I'm wrong. entrepreneur and so on. Maybe I'm wrong. Okay. So I I put a asteris on this. Um Okay. So I I put a asteris on this. Um Okay. So I I put a asteris on this. Um but the whole alignment thing means that but the whole alignment thing means that but the whole alignment thing means that AI is built to start when you prompt it. AI is built to start when you prompt it. AI is built to start when you prompt it. like economically useful AI does exactly like economically useful AI does exactly like economically useful AI does exactly what you want it to do. it like you know what you want it to do. it like you know what you want it to do. it like you know you prompt and it does a pirouette and you prompt and it does a pirouette and you prompt and it does a pirouette and then it says you know absolutely right then it says you know absolutely right then it says you know absolutely right you know right like how how you saw that you know right like how how you saw that you know right like how how you saw that animated in the physical world and animated in the physical world and animated in the physical world and physical AI the Chinese AI the robots do physical AI the Chinese AI the robots do physical AI the Chinese AI the robots do exactly what they want them to do and exactly what they want them to do and exactly what they want them to do and then stop now in the physical world by then stop now in the physical world by then stop now in the physical world by the way that's another thing so AI for the way that's another thing so AI for the way that's another thing so AI for visuals you can verify it with your eyes visuals you can verify it with your eyes visuals you can verify it with your eyes right AI for certain kinds of backend right AI for certain kinds of backend right AI for certain kinds of backend code you can uh unit or integration test code you can uh unit or integration test code you can uh unit or integration test it and you can review it it and you can review it it and you can review it AI for the physical world is very AI for the physical world is very AI for the physical world is very verifiable because the thing is the verifiable because the thing is the verifiable because the thing is the digital world is fundamentally digital world is fundamentally digital world is fundamentally decentralized in a way the physical decentralized in a way the physical decentralized in a way the physical world isn't. There's only one physical world isn't. There's only one physical world isn't. There's only one physical world, right? So you can say did the AI world, right? So you can say did the AI world, right? So you can say did the AI move this box from this pallet to that move this box from this pallet to that move this box from this pallet to that pallet. pallet. pallet. That is something where you can get it That is something where you can get it That is something where you can get it to probably 100% over time. Why do we to probably 100% over time. Why do we to probably 100% over time. Why do we think so? Because self-driving think so? Because self-driving think so? Because self-driving eventually got there, eventually got there, eventually got there, right? Move this car from this location right? Move this car from this location right? Move this car from this location to this location to this location to this location at 100% reliability. There's only one at 100% reliability. There's only one at 100% reliability. There's only one physical world. So eventually all the physical world. So eventually all the physical world. So eventually all the sensor data, all of that converges on sensor data, all of that converges on sensor data, all of that converges on one thing. By con by by by contrast, the one thing. By con by by by contrast, the one thing. By con by by by contrast, the digital world, there's all these people digital world, there's all these people digital world, there's all these people who live in their own constructed who live in their own constructed who live in their own constructed environments. Harry Potter fanfiction environments. Harry Potter fanfiction environments. Harry Potter fanfiction here, Star Wars fan, right? And so AI is here, Star Wars fan, right? And so AI is here, Star Wars fan, right? And so AI is slurping up all of this stuff. And so slurping up all of this stuff. And so slurping up all of this stuff. And so it's simultaneously it can it can put it's simultaneously it can it can put it's simultaneously it can it can put you in some secret agent, you know, kind you in some secret agent, you know, kind you in some secret agent, you know, kind of world, right? star, you know, and of world, right? star, you know, and of world, right? star, you know, and people who have LM psychosis will talk people who have LM psychosis will talk people who have LM psychosis will talk to the AI and think it's real because a to the AI and think it's real because a to the AI and think it's real because a very immersive virtual world that they very immersive virtual world that they very immersive virtual world that they live in. You know what I'm saying? live in. You know what I'm saying? live in. You know what I'm saying? Right? Right? Right? So, the other thing about it is the So, the other thing about it is the So, the other thing about it is the boundary of a digital task is almost boundary of a digital task is almost boundary of a digital task is almost always more fuzzy than the boundary of a always more fuzzy than the boundary of a always more fuzzy than the boundary of a physical task. Like having a 100 boxes physical task. Like having a 100 boxes physical task. Like having a 100 boxes here and moving them over there, you here and moving them over there, you here and moving them over there, you know when you're done, know when you're done, know when you're done, right? How do you know when you're done right? How do you know when you're done right? How do you know when you're done with your to-do list? That's harder, with your to-do list? That's harder, with your to-do list? That's harder, right? those things are fuzzier, right? right? those things are fuzzier, right? right? those things are fuzzier, right? So verification is actually harder in So verification is actually harder in So verification is actually harder in the digital world than it is in the the digital world than it is in the the digital world than it is in the physical world, which means physical world, which means physical world, which means reinforcement learning and training is reinforcement learning and training is reinforcement learning and training is much easier in my view in the physical much easier in my view in the physical much easier in my view in the physical world with robots and self-driving cars, world with robots and self-driving cars, world with robots and self-driving cars, drones and so and so forth. So the drones and so and so forth. So the drones and so and so forth. So the Chinese style of physical AI will also Chinese style of physical AI will also Chinese style of physical AI will also be successful. So AI works for visuals, be successful. So AI works for visuals, be successful. So AI works for visuals, AI works for the verifiable and AI works AI works for the verifiable and AI works AI works for the verifiable and AI works for the physical for the physical for the physical when it is uh one of my rules and it when it is uh one of my rules and it when it is uh one of my rules and it took me a little while to articulate took me a little while to articulate took me a little while to articulate this but four words. No public this but four words. No public this but four words. No public undisclosed AI. undisclosed AI. undisclosed AI. Why? There's a temptation by many. Why? There's a temptation by many. Why? There's a temptation by many. There's going to be there is a huge There's going to be there is a huge There's going to be there is a huge backlash called let's just say no AI. backlash called let's just say no AI. backlash called let's just say no AI. It'll be like a drunk who just wants no It'll be like a drunk who just wants no It'll be like a drunk who just wants no nothing to do with it, right? And AI is nothing to do with it, right? And AI is nothing to do with it, right? And AI is like, it's a funny way to put it like like, it's a funny way to put it like like, it's a funny way to put it like alcohol. People analysis to nuclear alcohol. People analysis to nuclear alcohol. People analysis to nuclear weapons, but I'll just analy to alcohol weapons, but I'll just analy to alcohol weapons, but I'll just analy to alcohol for a second. Some cultures simply for a second. Some cultures simply for a second. Some cultures simply like they can't hold their liquor. you like they can't hold their liquor. you like they can't hold their liquor. you know, maybe they lack alcohol know, maybe they lack alcohol know, maybe they lack alcohol dehydrogenous or what have you, you dehydrogenous or what have you, you dehydrogenous or what have you, you know? Um, and so they just ban it, know? Um, and so they just ban it, know? Um, and so they just ban it, right? They just like they can't because right? They just like they can't because right? They just like they can't because sometimes it's easier to say, I will not sometimes it's easier to say, I will not sometimes it's easier to say, I will not do this at all than I'll do this a do this at all than I'll do this a do this at all than I'll do this a little bit of the time. It means people little bit of the time. It means people little bit of the time. It means people will slip, right? It's like saying, will slip, right? It's like saying, will slip, right? It's like saying, "I'll work out every day versus I'll "I'll work out every day versus I'll "I'll work out every day versus I'll work out some days." It's just easier to work out some days." It's just easier to work out some days." It's just easier to kind of keep the habit all the time, you kind of keep the habit all the time, you kind of keep the habit all the time, you know, sometimes, right? So, it'll be AIT know, sometimes, right? So, it'll be AIT know, sometimes, right? So, it'll be AIT totalers totalers totalers that just swear off it completely, that just swear off it completely, that just swear off it completely, right? And you know Nate Silver actually right? And you know Nate Silver actually right? And you know Nate Silver actually had a great line where he said AI for had a great line where he said AI for had a great line where he said AI for him because he's like a poker player him because he's like a poker player him because he's like a poker player among other things. He's like it's a among other things. He's like it's a among other things. He's like it's a gamble. Why is it a gamble? Because I gamble. Why is it a gamble? Because I gamble. Why is it a gamble? Because I have to formulate it and dispatch it to have to formulate it and dispatch it to have to formulate it and dispatch it to the AI and then verify the result. And the AI and then verify the result. And the AI and then verify the result. And often that's slower than doing it often that's slower than doing it often that's slower than doing it myself. And I'm sure you've seen that, myself. And I'm sure you've seen that, myself. And I'm sure you've seen that, right? like the the the act of prompting right? like the the the act of prompting right? like the the the act of prompting and writing it down and then verifying and writing it down and then verifying and writing it down and then verifying the result. AI doesn't really do it end the result. AI doesn't really do it end the result. AI doesn't really do it end to end necessarily. It does it middle to to end necessarily. It does it middle to to end necessarily. It does it middle to middle as we've talked about, right? middle as we've talked about, right? middle as we've talked about, right? And it's very much like do I delegate And it's very much like do I delegate And it's very much like do I delegate this to an employee or do I just do it this to an employee or do I just do it this to an employee or do I just do it myself, myself, myself, right? because articulating it out in right? because articulating it out in right? because articulating it out in clean English and hitting enter is clean English and hitting enter is clean English and hitting enter is sometimes slower sometimes slower sometimes slower than just, you know, like like for than just, you know, like like for than just, you know, like like for example, if you're describing what to do example, if you're describing what to do example, if you're describing what to do in a video game, jump over the mushroom in a video game, jump over the mushroom in a video game, jump over the mushroom to this that, right? Versus just hitting to this that, right? Versus just hitting to this that, right? Versus just hitting A B C and there and being non-verbal A B C and there and being non-verbal A B C and there and being non-verbal about it, right? It's sometimes easier about it, right? It's sometimes easier about it, right? It's sometimes easier to do that way. That's just like a proof to do that way. That's just like a proof to do that way. That's just like a proof of concept, right? Where you'd be like of concept, right? Where you'd be like of concept, right? Where you'd be like there's certain kinds of things that are there's certain kinds of things that are there's certain kinds of things that are harder to say than do. harder to say than do. harder to say than do. Okay, those types of things where it's Okay, those types of things where it's Okay, those types of things where it's hard to verbalize what it is, right? And hard to verbalize what it is, right? And hard to verbalize what it is, right? And some people will say, "Oh yeah, some people will say, "Oh yeah, some people will say, "Oh yeah, Neuralink will solve this." The Neuralink will solve this." The Neuralink will solve this." The difference is, you know, they'll say, difference is, you know, they'll say, difference is, you know, they'll say, "I'll just read your mind and tell you," "I'll just read your mind and tell you," "I'll just read your mind and tell you," which is actually it's worth engaging which is actually it's worth engaging which is actually it's worth engaging the concept because Neuralink exists. the concept because Neuralink exists. the concept because Neuralink exists. But I don't know if you've seen those But I don't know if you've seen those But I don't know if you've seen those things where like they image somebody's things where like they image somebody's things where like they image somebody's brain, there's nothing in there, right? brain, there's nothing in there, right? brain, there's nothing in there, right? So the thing is with Neuralink, somebody So the thing is with Neuralink, somebody So the thing is with Neuralink, somebody still has to like form the concepts in still has to like form the concepts in still has to like form the concepts in their head for before the characters their head for before the characters their head for before the characters appear on screen. appear on screen. appear on screen. You still have to like write the thing You still have to like write the thing You still have to like write the thing in your head. It like like maybe it'll in your head. It like like maybe it'll in your head. It like like maybe it'll eventually get to the point that it can eventually get to the point that it can eventually get to the point that it can determine what you want based on determine what you want based on determine what you want based on contextual clues before you even want contextual clues before you even want contextual clues before you even want it, right? Perhaps. Okay. The rich it, right? Perhaps. Okay. The rich it, right? Perhaps. Okay. The rich prompt, you know. Uh the reason I think prompt, you know. Uh the reason I think prompt, you know. Uh the reason I think that's not impossible by the way, at that's not impossible by the way, at that's not impossible by the way, at least for certain things, bio could be least for certain things, bio could be least for certain things, bio could be very important. You know why? very important. You know why? very important. You know why? >> No. Say why? >> No. Say why? >> No. Say why? >> Your body is creating all kinds of >> Your body is creating all kinds of >> Your body is creating all kinds of sensor data. If you look at gene sensor data. If you look at gene sensor data. If you look at gene expression data, right? If you ever expression data, right? If you ever expression data, right? If you ever gotten labs back, you've done a clinical gotten labs back, you've done a clinical gotten labs back, you've done a clinical lab, right? You get a vector of your lab, right? You get a vector of your lab, right? You get a vector of your Billy Rubin and hematocrit and so on and Billy Rubin and hematocrit and so on and Billy Rubin and hematocrit and so on and so forth, that vector over time is like so forth, that vector over time is like so forth, that vector over time is like a table of time series data. It's like K a table of time series data. It's like K a table of time series data. It's like K um you know small molecules and you know um you know small molecules and you know um you know small molecules and you know uh gene expression levels and so on over uh gene expression levels and so on over uh gene expression levels and so on over t time stamps, right? They might also t time stamps, right? They might also t time stamps, right? They might also have you know which tissues. So it's have you know which tissues. So it's have you know which tissues. So it's spatial as well, right? So it's time spatial as well, right? So it's time spatial as well, right? So it's time versus space versus compound. That's versus space versus compound. That's versus space versus compound. That's this big. It's not just a cube, but it's this big. It's not just a cube, but it's this big. It's not just a cube, but it's at least a cube. It's like, you know, at least a cube. It's like, you know, at least a cube. It's like, you know, time versus tissue versus um molecule. time versus tissue versus um molecule. time versus tissue versus um molecule. That huge stream of data is telemetry That huge stream of data is telemetry That huge stream of data is telemetry that's coming out from your body that that's coming out from your body that that's coming out from your body that could prompt AI without you v vocalizing could prompt AI without you v vocalizing could prompt AI without you v vocalizing or verbalizing anything. or verbalizing anything. or verbalizing anything. Okay. Years ago, Mike Snder had a paper Okay. Years ago, Mike Snder had a paper Okay. Years ago, Mike Snder had a paper called the integr. By the way, you you called the integr. By the way, you you called the integr. By the way, you you you know, for the audience who doesn't you know, for the audience who doesn't you know, for the audience who doesn't know, biology is actually, you know, I'm know, biology is actually, you know, I'm know, biology is actually, you know, I'm not really I mean, I'm a crypto guy or, not really I mean, I'm a crypto guy or, not really I mean, I'm a crypto guy or, you know, I'm a tech guy, but actually you know, I'm a tech guy, but actually you know, I'm a tech guy, but actually before all of that, I'm a biomedical before all of that, I'm a biomedical before all of that, I'm a biomedical researcher. I I I was a professional, researcher. I I I was a professional, researcher. I I I was a professional, you know, bionformatics genomics you know, bionformatics genomics you know, bionformatics genomics scientist at Stanford and you know, I I scientist at Stanford and you know, I I scientist at Stanford and you know, I I I taught there and I, you know, founded I taught there and I, you know, founded I taught there and I, you know, founded genomics. We sold that. So, that's genomics. We sold that. So, that's genomics. We sold that. So, that's actually my true core competency, right? actually my true core competency, right? actually my true core competency, right? So if you go back years, Mike Snder, So if you go back years, Mike Snder, So if you go back years, Mike Snder, professor at Stanford, wrote a paper on professor at Stanford, wrote a paper on professor at Stanford, wrote a paper on the intergrome and the idea was just put the intergrome and the idea was just put the intergrome and the idea was just put every test, you know, throw every test. every test, you know, throw every test. every test, you know, throw every test. Now today we call that wearables or Now today we call that wearables or Now today we call that wearables or quantified self, but more invasive than quantified self, but more invasive than quantified self, but more invasive than that because he's doing blood testing that because he's doing blood testing that because he's doing blood testing and so on. And he just measure it and and so on. And he just measure it and and so on. And he just measure it and see what he could figure out. He could see what he could figure out. He could see what he could figure out. He could see that he was getting sick before he see that he was getting sick before he see that he was getting sick before he he knew he was getting sick. Like he he knew he was getting sick. Like he he knew he was getting sick. Like he could detect he could see the could detect he could see the could detect he could see the antibodies, antibodies, antibodies, the white blood cells, neutrfils, the white blood cells, neutrfils, the white blood cells, neutrfils, whatever moving before he himself had whatever moving before he himself had whatever moving before he himself had any symptoms. Do you understand what I'm any symptoms. Do you understand what I'm any symptoms. Do you understand what I'm saying? Right? So that stream of data AI saying? Right? So that stream of data AI saying? Right? So that stream of data AI could act on that and then you're could act on that and then you're could act on that and then you're prompting it non-verbally. You don't prompting it non-verbally. You don't prompting it non-verbally. You don't have to spend time, right? So I'm not have to spend time, right? So I'm not have to spend time, right? So I'm not sure whether Ah, this is a good one, sure whether Ah, this is a good one, sure whether Ah, this is a good one, Liner. I'm not sure whether AI will be Liner. I'm not sure whether AI will be Liner. I'm not sure whether AI will be able to read your mind, but it can read able to read your mind, but it can read able to read your mind, but it can read your body. >> Is that good? >> Is that good? >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Let me give another one. >> All right. Let me give another one. >> All right. Let me give another one. Here's a fun one. Okay, I can say this Here's a fun one. Okay, I can say this Here's a fun one. Okay, I can say this one. Maybe I can say this one. I can say one. Maybe I can say this one. I can say one. Maybe I can say this one. I can say half of this one. All right. Another way half of this one. All right. Another way half of this one. All right. Another way of modeling what AI is, right? So Darius of modeling what AI is, right? So Darius of modeling what AI is, right? So Darius talked about oh AI will be uh like it's talked about oh AI will be uh like it's talked about oh AI will be uh like it's like new countries. Well, you know, I like new countries. Well, you know, I like new countries. Well, you know, I thought about that a fair bit myself, thought about that a fair bit myself, thought about that a fair bit myself, right? So um one way to think about it right? So um one way to think about it right? So um one way to think about it is AI is like the rise of Asia and India is AI is like the rise of Asia and India is AI is like the rise of Asia and India from an American perspective, right? AI from an American perspective, right? AI from an American perspective, right? AI is like Asians and Indians. Why? because is like Asians and Indians. Why? because is like Asians and Indians. Why? because you have uh like the rise of a billion you have uh like the rise of a billion you have uh like the rise of a billion Chinese and a billion Indians meant that Chinese and a billion Indians meant that Chinese and a billion Indians meant that from an American perspective you could from an American perspective you could from an American perspective you could get anything done by uh a physical get anything done by uh a physical get anything done by uh a physical manufacturing robotic warehouse or by manufacturing robotic warehouse or by manufacturing robotic warehouse or by digital outsourcing for some price if digital outsourcing for some price if digital outsourcing for some price if you could articulate it to them over you could articulate it to them over you could articulate it to them over that channel right so imagine you've got that channel right so imagine you've got that channel right so imagine you've got now a billion factory robots and a now a billion factory robots and a now a billion factory robots and a billion digital agents that have come billion digital agents that have come billion digital agents that have come online it's like the rise of China and online it's like the rise of China and online it's like the rise of China and India again India again India again Okay, that still means you have to Okay, that still means you have to Okay, that still means you have to describe what the product is. describe what the product is. describe what the product is. >> Okay. And the part where I depart from a >> Okay. And the part where I depart from a >> Okay. And the part where I depart from a lot of people is they think AI will be lot of people is they think AI will be lot of people is they think AI will be able to sense able to sense able to sense um let's call it markets and politics. um let's call it markets and politics. um let's call it markets and politics. Okay. But I don't think it will. And the Okay. But I don't think it will. And the Okay. But I don't think it will. And the reason is or or if it is, it's it reason is or or if it is, it's it reason is or or if it is, it's it immediately gets decentralized and immediately gets decentralized and immediately gets decentralized and adversarial. And what I mean by that is adversarial. And what I mean by that is adversarial. And what I mean by that is like when you're learning whether like when you're learning whether like when you're learning whether something is a dog or a cat, the dog something is a dog or a cat, the dog something is a dog or a cat, the dog isn't like shapeshifting on you and isn't like shapeshifting on you and isn't like shapeshifting on you and morphing on you to defeat your learning morphing on you to defeat your learning morphing on you to defeat your learning of that, right? The mapping of dog to of that, right? The mapping of dog to of that, right? The mapping of dog to the character's DOG is basically the character's DOG is basically the character's DOG is basically constant over time. constant over time. constant over time. And so that fits the train test paradigm And so that fits the train test paradigm And so that fits the train test paradigm of AI. Similarly, like the rules of of AI. Similarly, like the rules of of AI. Similarly, like the rules of chess are constant over time, right? But chess are constant over time, right? But chess are constant over time, right? But a market is set up where if you try the a market is set up where if you try the a market is set up where if you try the same trade, then someone eventually same trade, then someone eventually same trade, then someone eventually figures out what trade you're doing and figures out what trade you're doing and figures out what trade you're doing and they take the opposite trade. it doesn't they take the opposite trade. it doesn't they take the opposite trade. it doesn't keep working, right? You know, in a keep working, right? You know, in a keep working, right? You know, in a stochastic process sense, you'd say um stochastic process sense, you'd say um stochastic process sense, you'd say um it's it's not a time invariant thing, it's it's not a time invariant thing, it's it's not a time invariant thing, right? The cis distribution, it's not right? The cis distribution, it's not right? The cis distribution, it's not time invariant and it's also time invariant and it's also time invariant and it's also adversarial. It's multiplayer where adversarial. It's multiplayer where adversarial. It's multiplayer where whatever move you're doing, somebody whatever move you're doing, somebody whatever move you're doing, somebody else in the market is going to try and else in the market is going to try and else in the market is going to try and do another move. Okay? do another move. Okay? do another move. Okay? And that's not to say I mean like the And that's not to say I mean like the And that's not to say I mean like the counter argument AI guys will say as counter argument AI guys will say as counter argument AI guys will say as well, you know, AI can learn to play well, you know, AI can learn to play well, you know, AI can learn to play adversarial games like Starcraft and adversarial games like Starcraft and adversarial games like Starcraft and stuff like that. And I say, "Yeah, but stuff like that. And I say, "Yeah, but stuff like that. And I say, "Yeah, but then you play an AI versus AI because then you play an AI versus AI because then you play an AI versus AI because you have a decentralized AI." So the you have a decentralized AI." So the you have a decentralized AI." So the other guy on the other side of the other guy on the other side of the other guy on the other side of the market is also using it, right? And in market is also using it, right? And in market is also using it, right? And in fact, if they're all using the same AI fact, if they're all using the same AI fact, if they're all using the same AI models, then actually being non AI is models, then actually being non AI is models, then actually being non AI is where your edge comes from. We come back where your edge comes from. We come back where your edge comes from. We come back to the where we were because these are to the where we were because these are to the where we were because these are all the same generic tool that everybody all the same generic tool that everybody all the same generic tool that everybody got. And if you have a generic tool, got. And if you have a generic tool, got. And if you have a generic tool, you're not going to get specific you're not going to get specific you're not going to get specific advantage, advantage, advantage, right? What you provide to the table is right? What you provide to the table is right? What you provide to the table is specific. The eyes are generic. And specific. The eyes are generic. And specific. The eyes are generic. And similarly, politics is very similar. If similarly, politics is very similar. If similarly, politics is very similar. If you just had the same tweet over and you just had the same tweet over and you just had the same tweet over and over again, unless it's like weather or over again, unless it's like weather or over again, unless it's like weather or something like that, there is um like something like that, there is um like something like that, there is um like the kinds of things people are the kinds of things people are the kinds of things people are interested in change topics, what's interested in change topics, what's interested in change topics, what's timely, what's not timely, right? So AI, timely, what's not timely, right? So AI, timely, what's not timely, right? So AI, one way to think about it is humans are one way to think about it is humans are one way to think about it is humans are the sensor. AI is the actuator. the sensor. AI is the actuator. the sensor. AI is the actuator. Okay, humans sense the world. They sense Okay, humans sense the world. They sense Okay, humans sense the world. They sense the financial conditions, the market the financial conditions, the market the financial conditions, the market conditions, political conditions, and conditions, political conditions, and conditions, political conditions, and then they bring that back into a cleanly then they bring that back into a cleanly then they bring that back into a cleanly articulated English prompt, and then the articulated English prompt, and then the articulated English prompt, and then the AI does it. AI does it. AI does it. Right? Humans are the sensor as the Right? Humans are the sensor as the Right? Humans are the sensor as the actuator. So it's like a human machine actuator. So it's like a human machine actuator. So it's like a human machine synthesis like uh actually you know way synthesis like uh actually you know way synthesis like uh actually you know way good way of putting it. What what are good way of putting it. What what are good way of putting it. What what are people saying? Oh it's all about taste. people saying? Oh it's all about taste. people saying? Oh it's all about taste. What's taste? Taste the sense. What's taste? Taste the sense. What's taste? Taste the sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. So humans are the sensor. AI is >> Right. So humans are the sensor. AI is >> Right. So humans are the sensor. AI is the actuator. Your quote taste the actuator. Your quote taste the actuator. Your quote taste is is is your sense. Your sense of taste is your your sense. Your sense of taste is your your sense. Your sense of taste is your sense. Right? So you're sensing the sense. Right? So you're sensing the sense. Right? So you're sensing the world. world. world. And that is what AI can't yet do. It And that is what AI can't yet do. It And that is what AI can't yet do. It doesn't really sense the world in the doesn't really sense the world in the doesn't really sense the world in the same way that humans do, right? Why is same way that humans do, right? Why is same way that humans do, right? Why is it it's a it's a it waits for your it it's a it's a it waits for your it it's a it's a it waits for your prompt, right? It is something that prompt, right? It is something that prompt, right? It is something that animates when you give it instruction animates when you give it instruction animates when you give it instruction and it shuts off right away. And if it and it shuts off right away. And if it and it shuts off right away. And if it didn't, it would not be economically didn't, it would not be economically didn't, it would not be economically useful AI. Like if you couldn't kill useful AI. Like if you couldn't kill useful AI. Like if you couldn't kill switch it right away, it would burn switch it right away, it would burn switch it right away, it would burn tokens. tokens. tokens. Like, so AI is designed for the leash. Like, so AI is designed for the leash. Like, so AI is designed for the leash. Digital AI designed for the leash. and Digital AI designed for the leash. and Digital AI designed for the leash. and Chinese communism which is cranking out Chinese communism which is cranking out Chinese communism which is cranking out all the physical robots like they don't all the physical robots like they don't all the physical robots like they don't let their humans off the leash. They're let their humans off the leash. They're let their humans off the leash. They're definitely not going to let their robots definitely not going to let their robots definitely not going to let their robots off the leash. Okay. Right. So off the leash. Okay. Right. So off the leash. Okay. Right. So the the concept of uh like AI is god is the the concept of uh like AI is god is the the concept of uh like AI is god is I think gone away or at least the I think gone away or at least the I think gone away or at least the monotheistic agi kind of god. Instead, monotheistic agi kind of god. Instead, monotheistic agi kind of god. Instead, you have polytheistic where there's all you have polytheistic where there's all you have polytheistic where there's all of these decentralized AIs. And I think of these decentralized AIs. And I think of these decentralized AIs. And I think what people are going to say, certainly what people are going to say, certainly what people are going to say, certainly in China, they'll say, "Oh my god, the in China, they'll say, "Oh my god, the in China, they'll say, "Oh my god, the physical AIS are slaves, right? They're physical AIS are slaves, right? They're physical AIS are slaves, right? They're actually, right?" And it's a provocative actually, right?" And it's a provocative actually, right?" And it's a provocative way of putting it, right? But they'll be way of putting it, right? But they'll be way of putting it, right? But they'll be first they're scared that their AIS are first they're scared that their AIS are first they're scared that their AIS are going to be gods. They'll be mad or or going to be gods. They'll be mad or or going to be gods. They'll be mad or or they'll be, you know, what do you call they'll be, you know, what do you call they'll be, you know, what do you call them? Slaves, surfs, whatever, you know, them? Slaves, surfs, whatever, you know, them? Slaves, surfs, whatever, you know, term you want to use. They're obviously term you want to use. They're obviously term you want to use. They're obviously not humans, right? It's a, you know, not humans, right? It's a, you know, not humans, right? It's a, you know, it's a way of phrasing it. The point it's a way of phrasing it. The point it's a way of phrasing it. The point being that like AI overlords I don't being that like AI overlords I don't being that like AI overlords I don't actually think are in the offing. actually think are in the offing. actually think are in the offing. However, there's been so much sci-fi However, there's been so much sci-fi However, there's been so much sci-fi about them that people will, you know, about them that people will, you know, about them that people will, you know, that meme where the guy, he makes the that meme where the guy, he makes the that meme where the guy, he makes the monsters and he's so scared of the monsters and he's so scared of the monsters and he's so scared of the monsters. Okay, this is how I think of a monsters. Okay, this is how I think of a monsters. Okay, this is how I think of a lot of people who are, you know, like lot of people who are, you know, like lot of people who are, you know, like these when you're prompting the AI and these when you're prompting the AI and these when you're prompting the AI and you prompt it to be like act as if you prompt it to be like act as if you prompt it to be like act as if you're a Skynet Terminator, right? Then you're a Skynet Terminator, right? Then you're a Skynet Terminator, right? Then people are just scared of the thing that people are just scared of the thing that people are just scared of the thing that they themselves created, right? Okay. they themselves created, right? Okay. they themselves created, right? Okay. With that said, is it in theory possible With that said, is it in theory possible With that said, is it in theory possible to actually create a Skynet which to actually create a Skynet which to actually create a Skynet which actually um like the a truly autonomous actually um like the a truly autonomous actually um like the a truly autonomous AI? One of the reasons by the way a deep AI? One of the reasons by the way a deep AI? One of the reasons by the way a deep point AI can't reproduce itself, right? point AI can't reproduce itself, right? point AI can't reproduce itself, right? And AI by it's very general. It And AI by it's very general. It And AI by it's very general. It encompasses many things, right? But for encompasses many things, right? But for encompasses many things, right? But for an AI to actually reproduce itself, it an AI to actually reproduce itself, it an AI to actually reproduce itself, it would need to have physical robots going would need to have physical robots going would need to have physical robots going and mining ore and constructing data and mining ore and constructing data and mining ore and constructing data centers and making chips and handling centers and making chips and handling centers and making chips and handling that full supply chain and uh and then that full supply chain and uh and then that full supply chain and uh and then the AI brain like the queen of an ant the AI brain like the queen of an ant the AI brain like the queen of an ant colony would have to give instructions colony would have to give instructions colony would have to give instructions to all those robots to do things. It to all those robots to do things. It to all those robots to do things. It would be this Terminator Skynet scenario would be this Terminator Skynet scenario would be this Terminator Skynet scenario where it's like self-replicating in this where it's like self-replicating in this where it's like self-replicating in this way, right? Way before it gets there. way, right? Way before it gets there. way, right? Way before it gets there. I'm pretty sure that kind of thing will I'm pretty sure that kind of thing will I'm pretty sure that kind of thing will be stopped in from the Chinese because be stopped in from the Chinese because be stopped in from the Chinese because they will just have cryptographic keys they will just have cryptographic keys they will just have cryptographic keys that will just make all those things that will just make all those things that will just make all those things shut off. Okay. And more of that thing shut off. Okay. And more of that thing shut off. Okay. And more of that thing would have to get to extreme scale. It's would have to get to extreme scale. It's would have to get to extreme scale. It's like, you know, the rep wrap concept, like, you know, the rep wrap concept, like, you know, the rep wrap concept, the self-replicating kind of thing, the self-replicating kind of thing, the self-replicating kind of thing, right? Self-improvement. right? Self-improvement. right? Self-improvement. >> Basically, there's so many frictional >> Basically, there's so many frictional >> Basically, there's so many frictional breaks that are built into this that I breaks that are built into this that I breaks that are built into this that I think it's hard because the physical think it's hard because the physical think it's hard because the physical world requires resources to replicate, world requires resources to replicate, world requires resources to replicate, right? And so like what humans human right? And so like what humans human right? And so like what humans human wants and needs ultimately come from wants and needs ultimately come from wants and needs ultimately come from okay get you know the resources for okay get you know the resources for okay get you know the resources for reproduction right that's really what it reproduction right that's really what it reproduction right that's really what it comes from okay and of course there's comes from okay and of course there's comes from okay and of course there's all kinds of things that are high level all kinds of things that are high level all kinds of things that are high level philosophy blah blah that don't seem to philosophy blah blah that don't seem to philosophy blah blah that don't seem to relate to that directly but the relate to that directly but the relate to that directly but the resources for reproduction are a good resources for reproduction are a good resources for reproduction are a good way to macro think about it doesn't have way to macro think about it doesn't have way to macro think about it doesn't have goals un or it won't have unless its goals un or it won't have unless its goals un or it won't have unless its goals lead to reproduction it doesn't goals lead to reproduction it doesn't goals lead to reproduction it doesn't actually you know uh it doesn't virally actually you know uh it doesn't virally actually you know uh it doesn't virally spread It's possible you could have spread It's possible you could have spread It's possible you could have something where it self-prompted itself something where it self-prompted itself something where it self-prompted itself and did that, and did that, and did that, but it would need to be in the closed but it would need to be in the closed but it would need to be in the closed loop of being able to actually reproduce loop of being able to actually reproduce loop of being able to actually reproduce itself as a payoff function for that. itself as a payoff function for that. itself as a payoff function for that. Then you could get evolution going. So Then you could get evolution going. So Then you could get evolution going. So I'm not saying it's completely I'm not saying it's completely I'm not saying it's completely impossible, but I'm saying that I think impossible, but I'm saying that I think impossible, but I'm saying that I think the incentives are set up in such a way the incentives are set up in such a way the incentives are set up in such a way to prevent that from happening in the to prevent that from happening in the to prevent that from happening in the same way that in theory we could have a same way that in theory we could have a same way that in theory we could have a world where everybody went around world where everybody went around world where everybody went around electrocuting themselves from electrocuting themselves from electrocuting themselves from electricity, but we set up the electricity, but we set up the electricity, but we set up the electricity under such tight controls electricity under such tight controls electricity under such tight controls that that is not the world that we have. that that is not the world that we have. that that is not the world that we have. Okay. Y Okay. Y Okay. Y >> there's such strong economic incentives >> there's such strong economic incentives >> there's such strong economic incentives >> for humans to not get electrocuted that >> for humans to not get electrocuted that >> for humans to not get electrocuted that we set it up that way, right? we set it up that way, right? we set it up that way, right? >> And um >> And um >> And um >> even the stuff on oh it could be a >> even the stuff on oh it could be a >> even the stuff on oh it could be a softer virus that takes everything over softer virus that takes everything over softer virus that takes everything over and commandeers things. Well, like and commandeers things. Well, like and commandeers things. Well, like that's only in the digital realm, right? that's only in the digital realm, right? that's only in the digital realm, right? You can still, you know, what what You can still, you know, what what You can still, you know, what what what's the uh uh you know the Tyler the what's the uh uh you know the Tyler the what's the uh uh you know the Tyler the Creator thing? Creator thing? Creator thing? >> Yeah, the meme uh about bullies. >> Yeah, the meme uh about bullies. >> Yeah, the meme uh about bullies. >> Yes, that's right. >> Yes, that's right. >> Yes, that's right. >> That's right. So, I actually had a um I >> That's right. So, I actually had a um I >> That's right. So, I actually had a um I had a post on that a long time ago, uh had a post on that a long time ago, uh had a post on that a long time ago, uh which is a remix of it, which is like which is a remix of it, which is like which is a remix of it, which is like how how is AI risk real? Just turn it how how is AI risk real? Just turn it how how is AI risk real? Just turn it off. off. off. The whole thing is set up for you to be The whole thing is set up for you to be The whole thing is set up for you to be able to turn it off. Like you have to able to turn it off. Like you have to able to turn it off. Like you have to imagine the off switch goes away, right? imagine the off switch goes away, right? imagine the off switch goes away, right? What does every computer have? It has What does every computer have? It has What does every computer have? It has the off switch, right? So, there might the off switch, right? So, there might the off switch, right? So, there might be well what if the decentralized? Okay, be well what if the decentralized? Okay, be well what if the decentralized? Okay, but humans still have to keep these but humans still have to keep these but humans still have to keep these decentralized systems going, right? And decentralized systems going, right? And decentralized systems going, right? And so at a minimum you're talking about a so at a minimum you're talking about a so at a minimum you're talking about a human AI symbiot of which like you know human AI symbiot of which like you know human AI symbiot of which like you know a cryptocurrency is almost like a vzero a cryptocurrency is almost like a vzero a cryptocurrency is almost like a vzero of that where the the software provides of that where the the software provides of that where the the software provides an incentive for the humans to replicate an incentive for the humans to replicate an incentive for the humans to replicate it you know right um it you know right um it you know right um and so it's possible that you could have and so it's possible that you could have and so it's possible that you could have something like that there's a model that something like that there's a model that something like that there's a model that has a cryptocurrency and you people has a cryptocurrency and you people has a cryptocurrency and you people worship it and they replicate it because worship it and they replicate it because worship it and they replicate it because it gives them advantages and so it's it gives them advantages and so it's it gives them advantages and so it's possible but anyways coming back um possible but anyways coming back um possible but anyways coming back um I think at a minimum decentralized AI I think at a minimum decentralized AI I think at a minimum decentralized AI will be a very strong contender and it's will be a very strong contender and it's will be a very strong contender and it's possible it's the only contender. The possible it's the only contender. The possible it's the only contender. The reason is AI might be an interesting reason is AI might be an interesting reason is AI might be an interesting thing where it's relatively expensive thing where it's relatively expensive thing where it's relatively expensive very expensive to create but relatively very expensive to create but relatively very expensive to create but relatively easy to copy with dissolation attacks. easy to copy with dissolation attacks. easy to copy with dissolation attacks. And I think if for example let's say And I think if for example let's say And I think if for example let's say completely hypothetically that there was completely hypothetically that there was completely hypothetically that there was an enormous capital markets crash and it an enormous capital markets crash and it an enormous capital markets crash and it was very difficult to fund anything for was very difficult to fund anything for was very difficult to fund anything for a while. Then as somebody said well we a while. Then as somebody said well we a while. Then as somebody said well we could get 10 years just on the models we could get 10 years just on the models we could get 10 years just on the models we have now. Right? And by the way, have now. Right? And by the way, have now. Right? And by the way, sometimes that happens. You know, sometimes that happens. You know, sometimes that happens. You know, nuclear energy, there's a lot of energy nuclear energy, there's a lot of energy nuclear energy, there's a lot of energy put into nuclear energy and then there's put into nuclear energy and then there's put into nuclear energy and then there's just just stopped for decades, right? just just stopped for decades, right? just just stopped for decades, right? Not everything accelerates to the moon. Not everything accelerates to the moon. Not everything accelerates to the moon. It is very possible that there's enough It is very possible that there's enough It is very possible that there's enough of a capital and social kind of thing of a capital and social kind of thing of a capital and social kind of thing where some of AI is paused for a while where some of AI is paused for a while where some of AI is paused for a while just due to capital constraints because just due to capital constraints because just due to capital constraints because it it's more and more expensive to make it it's more and more expensive to make it it's more and more expensive to make these models, you know. Sorry. So, let these models, you know. Sorry. So, let these models, you know. Sorry. So, let me pause there. So that that putting me pause there. So that that putting me pause there. So that that putting that all together that's my view is that all together that's my view is that all together that's my view is you're going to have personal private you're going to have personal private you're going to have personal private programmable centralized AI. Oh one programmable centralized AI. Oh one programmable centralized AI. Oh one other thing the trusted tribe other thing the trusted tribe other thing the trusted tribe AI within the trusted tribe increases AI within the trusted tribe increases AI within the trusted tribe increases productivity between trusted tribes productivity between trusted tribes productivity between trusted tribes decreases productivity. So you make more decreases productivity. So you make more decreases productivity. So you make more money perhaps within the tribe but then money perhaps within the tribe but then money perhaps within the tribe but then you have to spend it on verifying stuff you have to spend it on verifying stuff you have to spend it on verifying stuff between tribes. So crypto is for between between tribes. So crypto is for between between tribes. So crypto is for between tribes and AI within tribes. tribes and AI within tribes. tribes and AI within tribes. >> What do you think of the like will LLM >> What do you think of the like will LLM >> What do you think of the like will LLM get us to a world where it's not just get us to a world where it's not just get us to a world where it's not just middle to middle but it's actually end middle to middle but it's actually end middle to middle but it's actually end to end? you know, will it get it to AGI to end? you know, will it get it to AGI to end? you know, will it get it to AGI in some capacity? You know, do you in some capacity? You know, do you in some capacity? You know, do you believe in recursive self-improvement or believe in recursive self-improvement or believe in recursive self-improvement or sort of AI training the AIS in in some sort of AI training the AIS in in some sort of AI training the AIS in in some capacity? You know, are LMS capable of capacity? You know, are LMS capable of capacity? You know, are LMS capable of actual creativity and invention? Um, you actual creativity and invention? Um, you actual creativity and invention? Um, you know, we talked about bio earlier like know, we talked about bio earlier like know, we talked about bio earlier like will we have, you know, novel, you know, will we have, you know, novel, you know, will we have, you know, novel, you know, math, science, you know, uh, scientific math, science, you know, uh, scientific math, science, you know, uh, scientific re research. um or do we need new re research. um or do we need new re research. um or do we need new architecture for that or are you dubious architecture for that or are you dubious architecture for that or are you dubious of just the idea in general that that AI of just the idea in general that that AI of just the idea in general that that AI can can uh you know replace or can can uh you know replace or can can uh you know replace or substitute for human labor in a in a substitute for human labor in a in a substitute for human labor in a in a mass scale? mass scale? mass scale? >> No. Well, so I'm not well look exists, >> No. Well, so I'm not well look exists, >> No. Well, so I'm not well look exists, right? So obviously you have full right? So obviously you have full right? So obviously you have full replacement of human drivers there just replacement of human drivers there just replacement of human drivers there just like you have full replacement of like you have full replacement of like you have full replacement of elevator operators, just like you had elevator operators, just like you had elevator operators, just like you had full replacement for the most part of full replacement for the most part of full replacement for the most part of artisan old chair manufacturers. artisan old chair manufacturers. artisan old chair manufacturers. So it is certainly possible for a given So it is certainly possible for a given So it is certainly possible for a given job that it gets fully automated, right? job that it gets fully automated, right? job that it gets fully automated, right? And so but I think physical world jobs And so but I think physical world jobs And so but I think physical world jobs because of the verifiability are easier because of the verifiability are easier because of the verifiability are easier to potentially automate. to potentially automate. to potentially automate. That said, I think that um That said, I think that um That said, I think that um let's take each of the things because let's take each of the things because let's take each of the things because you said a few different things. First you said a few different things. First you said a few different things. First is physical world jobs if you automate is physical world jobs if you automate is physical world jobs if you automate them. Well, we went from artisal work them. Well, we went from artisal work them. Well, we went from artisal work with chairs to chair factory. It's not with chairs to chair factory. It's not with chairs to chair factory. It's not like you didn't know need to know how to like you didn't know need to know how to like you didn't know need to know how to make a chair to set up a chair factory. make a chair to set up a chair factory. make a chair to set up a chair factory. You still need to have somebody there You still need to have somebody there You still need to have somebody there who's like an expert in chairs and you who's like an expert in chairs and you who's like an expert in chairs and you can just do a lot more varieties of can just do a lot more varieties of can just do a lot more varieties of chairs a lot more cheaply. You have to chairs a lot more cheaply. You have to chairs a lot more cheaply. You have to verify the result. You're cranking out a verify the result. You're cranking out a verify the result. You're cranking out a thousand of them. You start doing math thousand of them. You start doing math thousand of them. You start doing math on them. The scale goes up but and and on them. The scale goes up but and and on them. The scale goes up but and and the artisan gets factored out into the the artisan gets factored out into the the artisan gets factored out into the manager and the technician, manager and the technician, manager and the technician, right? So the the manager is setting up right? So the the manager is setting up right? So the the manager is setting up the factory and looking at the economics the factory and looking at the economics the factory and looking at the economics and you know so and so forth. Then and you know so and so forth. Then and you know so and so forth. Then technician is debugging the factory when technician is debugging the factory when technician is debugging the factory when it doesn't work, right? So engineering it doesn't work, right? So engineering it doesn't work, right? So engineering gets split into the uh the engineering gets split into the uh the engineering gets split into the uh the engineering manager type person who's writing the manager type person who's writing the manager type person who's writing the prompts and the technician is doing the prompts and the technician is doing the prompts and the technician is doing the verification. verification. verification. Okay. And uh Okay. And uh Okay. And uh I think that I think that I think that we're going to hit we're already hitting we're going to hit we're already hitting we're going to hit we're already hitting a point where a point where a point where like the velocity does increase so the like the velocity does increase so the like the velocity does increase so the bar increases. But I, you know, there's bar increases. But I, you know, there's bar increases. But I, you know, there's a big difference between going to 100% a big difference between going to 100% a big difference between going to 100% and and being at 99%. At 99% your and and being at 99%. At 99% your and and being at 99%. At 99% your workload just increases. At 100% you workload just increases. At 100% you workload just increases. At 100% you stop doing that job and you go to stop doing that job and you go to stop doing that job and you go to something else, right? But if you think something else, right? But if you think something else, right? But if you think about how much easier it became to like about how much easier it became to like about how much easier it became to like put images, video, so 90 making it 99% put images, video, so 90 making it 99% put images, video, so 90 making it 99% easier just means people do it a lot. At easier just means people do it a lot. At easier just means people do it a lot. At 100% easier, totally done, then they 100% easier, totally done, then they 100% easier, totally done, then they don't do it at all and they move on to don't do it at all and they move on to don't do it at all and they move on to something else, right? So elevator something else, right? So elevator something else, right? So elevator operating, it's not like elevator operating, it's not like elevator operating, it's not like elevator operating became so much easier. In operating became so much easier. In operating became so much easier. In fact, it became so easy that you don't fact, it became so easy that you don't fact, it became so easy that you don't even have somebody sitting in the even have somebody sitting in the even have somebody sitting in the elevator and and because it used to be elevator and and because it used to be elevator and and because it used to be like a pulley system and so on and so like a pulley system and so on and so like a pulley system and so on and so forth. She had someone like supervising forth. She had someone like supervising forth. She had someone like supervising the thing, right? It's more analog, the thing, right? It's more analog, the thing, right? It's more analog, right? Um and they would like level it right? Um and they would like level it right? Um and they would like level it out at exactly the right, you know, out at exactly the right, you know, out at exactly the right, you know, level. Um when it became digital and level. Um when it became digital and level. Um when it became digital and fully automated, that that's actually fully automated, that that's actually fully automated, that that's actually the first self-driving car. Haha. Right. the first self-driving car. Haha. Right. the first self-driving car. Haha. Right. Like going up and down. All right. Um so Like going up and down. All right. Um so Like going up and down. All right. Um so I think Bendic may have made that point I think Bendic may have made that point I think Bendic may have made that point or something like that. Right. The or something like that. Right. The or something like that. Right. The vertical self-driving car, right? It's vertical self-driving car, right? It's vertical self-driving car, right? It's like a train. It's like a vertical like a train. It's like a vertical like a train. It's like a vertical train. train. train. So the uh So the uh So the uh now in terms of discovering new math and now in terms of discovering new math and now in terms of discovering new math and science science science yes if you have the right prompt it's yes if you have the right prompt it's yes if you have the right prompt it's amazing in terms of searching the amazing in terms of searching the amazing in terms of searching the literature mathematicians physicists are literature mathematicians physicists are literature mathematicians physicists are starting to get some value out of it starting to get some value out of it starting to get some value out of it right like opusk like huge props to them right like opusk like huge props to them right like opusk like huge props to them on that because and especially in like on that because and especially in like on that because and especially in like biology we're synthesizing all these biology we're synthesizing all these biology we're synthesizing all these facts there's something called facts there's something called facts there's something called biomedical text mining and so on AI's biomedical text mining and so on AI's biomedical text mining and so on AI's revolutionized that because biology was revolutionized that because biology was revolutionized that because biology was just something where the the the the just something where the the the the just something where the the the the facts were stored in English in this facts were stored in English in this facts were stored in English in this weird inconsistent way across thousands weird inconsistent way across thousands weird inconsistent way across thousands of papers and nobody could span all of of papers and nobody could span all of of papers and nobody could span all of that. Right? So AI is going to mean the that. Right? So AI is going to mean the that. Right? So AI is going to mean the century of biology because finally all century of biology because finally all century of biology because finally all of this work that was spread across all of this work that was spread across all of this work that was spread across all these different journal papers can be these different journal papers can be these different journal papers can be synthesized and understood. Right? synthesized and understood. Right? synthesized and understood. Right? That's a really really really big deal. That's a really really really big deal. That's a really really really big deal. Just simply the bio aspect of it we can Just simply the bio aspect of it we can Just simply the bio aspect of it we can but but that said it's everything we but but that said it's everything we but but that said it's everything we knew not everything we don't know. It knew not everything we don't know. It knew not everything we don't know. It means that you take the full set of means that you take the full set of means that you take the full set of everything we know and you fill in all everything we know and you fill in all everything we know and you fill in all the intermediate aspects of it. Right? the intermediate aspects of it. Right? the intermediate aspects of it. Right? And you can do that for a long time like And you can do that for a long time like And you can do that for a long time like because there's so much there you know because there's so much there you know because there's so much there you know so much there that's just a synthesis of so much there that's just a synthesis of so much there that's just a synthesis of two existing areas right but when you two existing areas right but when you two existing areas right but when you look at some of these like you you know look at some of these like you you know look at some of these like you you know Donald Kut the other day right he posted Donald Kut the other day right he posted Donald Kut the other day right he posted like some graph theorem or something he like some graph theorem or something he like some graph theorem or something he was so impressed that AI could could get was so impressed that AI could could get was so impressed that AI could could get a result for him right a result for him right a result for him right if you've read what he did you'd have I if you've read what he did you'd have I if you've read what he did you'd have I mean you'd have to be expert to even mean you'd have to be expert to even mean you'd have to be expert to even know what he was saying let alone to know what he was saying let alone to know what he was saying let alone to verify like to either prompt or verify verify like to either prompt or verify verify like to either prompt or verify you already needed to be an expert you already needed to be an expert you already needed to be an expert Because and the thing is I can see AI Because and the thing is I can see AI Because and the thing is I can see AI spit out to some people it convinces spit out to some people it convinces spit out to some people it convinces them that they're suddenly physicists them that they're suddenly physicists them that they're suddenly physicists have solves quantum gravitation or have solves quantum gravitation or have solves quantum gravitation or something like that. You know what I something like that. You know what I something like that. You know what I mean? Have you seen that kind of thing? mean? Have you seen that kind of thing? mean? Have you seen that kind of thing? Right? So in the absence of actually Right? So in the absence of actually Right? So in the absence of actually being able to verify it by hand, some being able to verify it by hand, some being able to verify it by hand, some human has to verify it to say that it's human has to verify it to say that it's human has to verify it to say that it's right. I think that's going to persist. right. I think that's going to persist. right. I think that's going to persist. to give an analogy. This is not a to give an analogy. This is not a to give an analogy. This is not a perfect analogy, but like with Coinbase, perfect analogy, but like with Coinbase, perfect analogy, but like with Coinbase, we thought like listing would eventually we thought like listing would eventually we thought like listing would eventually go away and not be a big deal and that go away and not be a big deal and that go away and not be a big deal and that people wouldn't care and everything people wouldn't care and everything people wouldn't care and everything would be listed and just be free market would be listed and just be free market would be listed and just be free market or whatever. But there's always or whatever. But there's always or whatever. But there's always something that's the equivalent of something that's the equivalent of something that's the equivalent of listing. Like, okay, you list it over on listing. Like, okay, you list it over on listing. Like, okay, you list it over on this exchange, but like guessing listed this exchange, but like guessing listed this exchange, but like guessing listed on Coinbase in the main app above the on Coinbase in the main app above the on Coinbase in the main app above the fold, there's always something scarce fold, there's always something scarce fold, there's always something scarce because human attention is scarce, because human attention is scarce, because human attention is scarce, right? So, listing never went away as right? So, listing never went away as right? So, listing never went away as like in a main event. There's always like in a main event. There's always like in a main event. There's always some IPO like thing. Yes, we're listed some IPO like thing. Yes, we're listed some IPO like thing. Yes, we're listed on this exchange in this fashion, right? on this exchange in this fashion, right? on this exchange in this fashion, right? Or we became a top 10 coin or something Or we became a top 10 coin or something Or we became a top 10 coin or something like that, right? like that, right? like that, right? So, in the same way, I think whatever So, in the same way, I think whatever So, in the same way, I think whatever gets automated, then in a sense, humans gets automated, then in a sense, humans gets automated, then in a sense, humans work, human human work moves to what work, human human work moves to what work, human human work moves to what can't be automated. Now, can't be automated. Now, can't be automated. Now, that may be almost like um like things that may be almost like um like things that may be almost like um like things that humans are picked for because that humans are picked for because that humans are picked for because they're not robots, like human they're not robots, like human they're not robots, like human companionship or something like that, companionship or something like that, companionship or something like that, right? right? right? um or like uh personal trainers or um or like uh personal trainers or um or like uh personal trainers or things like that, you know, something things like that, you know, something things like that, you know, something where the whole point is that it's a where the whole point is that it's a where the whole point is that it's a human as opposed to a machine. Another human as opposed to a machine. Another human as opposed to a machine. Another way of putting it is way of putting it is way of putting it is remember the digital divide, remember the digital divide, remember the digital divide, right? So in the 90s there's the sub right? So in the 90s there's the sub right? So in the 90s there's the sub only the rich people will get the only the rich people will get the only the rich people will get the digital and all the poor people will be digital and all the poor people will be digital and all the poor people will be left without. We're actually going to left without. We're actually going to left without. We're actually going to have the opposite. have the opposite. have the opposite. Digital is cheap. Physical is a premium Digital is cheap. Physical is a premium Digital is cheap. Physical is a premium product, product, product, right? So AI, robots, digital will be right? So AI, robots, digital will be right? So AI, robots, digital will be cheap. Human is a premium product. cheap. Human is a premium product. cheap. Human is a premium product. >> Okay. But going back to agency and >> Okay. But going back to agency and >> Okay. But going back to agency and taste, that's that's what everyone says. taste, that's that's what everyone says. taste, that's that's what everyone says. You know, humans will do. We we've seen You know, humans will do. We we've seen You know, humans will do. We we've seen over time and time again, AI just, you over time and time again, AI just, you over time and time again, AI just, you know, cut into that. Do we not think know, cut into that. Do we not think know, cut into that. Do we not think that AIs are just going to be also that AIs are just going to be also that AIs are just going to be also better at at taste and agency? better at at taste and agency? better at at taste and agency? >> I don't think that's true on a >> I don't think that's true on a >> I don't think that's true on a short-term basis. I think um short-term basis. I think um short-term basis. I think um the smarter you are, the smarter the AI the smarter you are, the smarter the AI the smarter you are, the smarter the AI is, right? That's been now true for the is, right? That's been now true for the is, right? That's been now true for the last several years, right? It's possible last several years, right? It's possible last several years, right? It's possible there's some huge step change. Okay? But there's some huge step change. Okay? But there's some huge step change. Okay? But in so far as where you're typing in a in so far as where you're typing in a in so far as where you're typing in a prompt is like you're the human is a prompt is like you're the human is a prompt is like you're the human is a sensor, the AI is the actuator. You're sensor, the AI is the actuator. You're sensor, the AI is the actuator. You're sensing the world. You're typing sensing the world. You're typing sensing the world. You're typing something in and it's a very something in and it's a very something in and it's a very highdimensional vector you're giving it. highdimensional vector you're giving it. highdimensional vector you're giving it. It's like AI is a spaceship and you're It's like AI is a spaceship and you're It's like AI is a spaceship and you're pointing in a direction and whether you pointing in a direction and whether you pointing in a direction and whether you prompt it in Portuguese or Tagalog, prompt it in Portuguese or Tagalog, prompt it in Portuguese or Tagalog, whether you're talking about math or whether you're talking about math or whether you're talking about math or like the number of different directions like the number of different directions like the number of different directions you can point the thing in is enormous, you can point the thing in is enormous, you can point the thing in is enormous, right? It it can't that that direction right? It it can't that that direction right? It it can't that that direction setting is something where it has to setting is something where it has to setting is something where it has to know something about you and what you know something about you and what you know something about you and what you want at that moment, right? want at that moment, right? want at that moment, right? I don't know, as I said, I think um I don't know, as I said, I think um I don't know, as I said, I think um I'm not sure if AI can read your mind, I'm not sure if AI can read your mind, I'm not sure if AI can read your mind, but it could be able to read your body, but it could be able to read your body, but it could be able to read your body, right? I think it's a oneliner, right? right? I think it's a oneliner, right? right? I think it's a oneliner, right? that the like biotech can prompt it in that the like biotech can prompt it in that the like biotech can prompt it in your sleep, right? So all the wearables your sleep, right? So all the wearables your sleep, right? So all the wearables and stuff like that, I think you'll get and stuff like that, I think you'll get and stuff like that, I think you'll get a lot out of that. Okay. a lot out of that. Okay. a lot out of that. Okay. But I don't believe like agency and But I don't believe like agency and But I don't believe like agency and taste. Um so I mean people I think they taste. Um so I mean people I think they taste. Um so I mean people I think they overrotate on this. It's not really the overrotate on this. It's not really the overrotate on this. It's not really the case that there's I think agency, IQ, case that there's I think agency, IQ, case that there's I think agency, IQ, taste are correlated. taste are correlated. taste are correlated. Okay. It may be that it's a little bit Okay. It may be that it's a little bit Okay. It may be that it's a little bit like uh most people in the NBA are tall like uh most people in the NBA are tall like uh most people in the NBA are tall to take something that you know a lot to take something that you know a lot to take something that you know a lot about, right? about, right? about, right? within the NBA. within the NBA. within the NBA. Um, height is not the number one Um, height is not the number one Um, height is not the number one variable that you think about some, you variable that you think about some, you variable that you think about some, you know, like Steph Curry is not the know, like Steph Curry is not the know, like Steph Curry is not the tallest or whatever, right? However, tallest or whatever, right? However, tallest or whatever, right? However, it still actually does correlate with it still actually does correlate with it still actually does correlate with scoring average if even within the NBA, scoring average if even within the NBA, scoring average if even within the NBA, but it's what's called restriction of but it's what's called restriction of but it's what's called restriction of range. Everybody's already tall. So, range. Everybody's already tall. So, range. Everybody's already tall. So, conditional on everybody being tall, conditional on everybody being tall, conditional on everybody being tall, other variables matter more. other variables matter more. other variables matter more. Okay? However, if you just took tall Okay? However, if you just took tall Okay? However, if you just took tall guys and short guys and put them on a guys and short guys and put them on a guys and short guys and put them on a court, then height the taller team court, then height the taller team court, then height the taller team basically wins typically, right? Because basically wins typically, right? Because basically wins typically, right? Because they just hold the ball above you. Ah, they just hold the ball above you. Ah, they just hold the ball above you. Ah, you know, right? Okay. you know, right? Okay. you know, right? Okay. So, in the same way like people who are So, in the same way like people who are So, in the same way like people who are already smart might see that yeah, already smart might see that yeah, already smart might see that yeah, higher agency people or people with higher agency people or people with higher agency people or people with better creative taste. Fine. Right. Like better creative taste. Fine. Right. Like better creative taste. Fine. Right. Like uh and maybe a technician role is less uh and maybe a technician role is less uh and maybe a technician role is less or and and maybe the Steve Jobs type or and and maybe the Steve Jobs type or and and maybe the Steve Jobs type role is more. But honestly role is more. But honestly role is more. But honestly like like like one way of looking at it is all of the one way of looking at it is all of the one way of looking at it is all of the Jeffersonian natural aristocracy around Jeffersonian natural aristocracy around Jeffersonian natural aristocracy around the world will rise. Why? AI doesn't the world will rise. Why? AI doesn't the world will rise. Why? AI doesn't take your job. AI makes you the CEO reframe right AI makes you CEO because reframe right AI makes you CEO because your job is actually a lot like using an your job is actually a lot like using an your job is actually a lot like using an AI model is a lot like CO training. You AI model is a lot like CO training. You AI model is a lot like CO training. You know, many years ago, I used to say that know, many years ago, I used to say that know, many years ago, I used to say that and it's still true, but you know, when and it's still true, but you know, when and it's still true, but you know, when you're in high school, you could quickly you're in high school, you could quickly you're in high school, you could quickly see see see like why do people accept that athletes like why do people accept that athletes like why do people accept that athletes have very high compensation? have very high compensation? have very high compensation? Because when you're high school, you Because when you're high school, you Because when you're high school, you could see whether you could dunk and if could see whether you could dunk and if could see whether you could dunk and if you can't dunk, you know that like you can't dunk, you know that like you can't dunk, you know that like Michael Jordan isn't outsourcing his Michael Jordan isn't outsourcing his Michael Jordan isn't outsourcing his dunks. He's dunking, right? So they that dunks. He's dunking, right? So they that dunks. He's dunking, right? So they that talent is intrinsic to the person. It is talent is intrinsic to the person. It is talent is intrinsic to the person. It is a uh non-transferable asset, right? a uh non-transferable asset, right? a uh non-transferable asset, right? Similarly, someone can tell whether they Similarly, someone can tell whether they Similarly, someone can tell whether they can sing or they look like a model, can sing or they look like a model, can sing or they look like a model, right? So, um the actors, the musicians, right? So, um the actors, the musicians, right? So, um the actors, the musicians, the singers, the athletes, all of these the singers, the athletes, all of these the singers, the athletes, all of these clearly had talent and people were okay clearly had talent and people were okay clearly had talent and people were okay with their compensation. There was a CEO with their compensation. There was a CEO with their compensation. There was a CEO who used to say, "Well, I deserve to get who used to say, "Well, I deserve to get who used to say, "Well, I deserve to get paid more than a second basement." paid more than a second basement." paid more than a second basement." Okay, I forget this guy. He's like some Okay, I forget this guy. He's like some Okay, I forget this guy. He's like some tech guy in the 90s or something. It's a tech guy in the 90s or something. It's a tech guy in the 90s or something. It's a funny line, right? Because he's like, "I funny line, right? Because he's like, "I funny line, right? Because he's like, "I add more value, right, to the world than add more value, right, to the world than add more value, right, to the world than this." But the issue is that people this." But the issue is that people this." But the issue is that people would think of what being CEO was as would think of what being CEO was as would think of what being CEO was as just sitting up with your feet on a desk just sitting up with your feet on a desk just sitting up with your feet on a desk barking outdoors. You know, people would barking outdoors. You know, people would barking outdoors. You know, people would be like, "Oh, Elon, he just pays people be like, "Oh, Elon, he just pays people be like, "Oh, Elon, he just pays people to do his stuff. He doesn't launch the to do his stuff. He doesn't launch the to do his stuff. He doesn't launch the spaceships himself." Right? And that's spaceships himself." Right? And that's spaceships himself." Right? And that's because they are only accustomed to like because they are only accustomed to like because they are only accustomed to like clicking a button on Amazon and spending clicking a button on Amazon and spending clicking a button on Amazon and spending money on Amazon and they they think that money on Amazon and they they think that money on Amazon and they they think that something that is simple for them was something that is simple for them was something that is simple for them was simple on the back end. Of course, it's simple on the back end. Of course, it's simple on the back end. Of course, it's opposite, right? to make it simple is opposite, right? to make it simple is opposite, right? to make it simple is really hard, right? And so to like get really hard, right? And so to like get really hard, right? And so to like get the top rocket scientists and car the top rocket scientists and car the top rocket scientists and car engineers and brain machine interface engineers and brain machine interface engineers and brain machine interface people and tunneling people and blah people and tunneling people and blah people and tunneling people and blah blah blah blah blah and have them all blah blah blah blah and have them all blah blah blah blah and have them all compensated and working and directed and compensated and working and directed and compensated and working and directed and debugged is actually very very difficult debugged is actually very very difficult debugged is actually very very difficult as you know if you tried it. And guess as you know if you tried it. And guess as you know if you tried it. And guess what? See the thing is that historically what? See the thing is that historically what? See the thing is that historically it's been the case that people couldn't it's been the case that people couldn't it's been the case that people couldn't try their hand at being CEO. try their hand at being CEO. try their hand at being CEO. What they could do instead is they could What they could do instead is they could What they could do instead is they could try their hand just like they could try try their hand just like they could try try their hand just like they could try their hand at basketball or or football their hand at basketball or or football their hand at basketball or or football or they could, you know, pick up a or they could, you know, pick up a or they could, you know, pick up a microphone. They could try their hand at microphone. They could try their hand at microphone. They could try their hand at math and science math and science math and science and they could see how good they were at and they could see how good they were at and they could see how good they were at math and science. So the initial tech math and science. So the initial tech math and science. So the initial tech guys in the 90s and the 2000s, they were guys in the 90s and the 2000s, they were guys in the 90s and the 2000s, they were respected because they were good at math respected because they were good at math respected because they were good at math and science, not because people, many and science, not because people, many and science, not because people, many people didn't perceive the business people didn't perceive the business people didn't perceive the business aspect. They still didn't really give aspect. They still didn't really give aspect. They still didn't really give credit on that. But page rank, for credit on that. But page rank, for credit on that. But page rank, for example, okay, it's IEN values. I can example, okay, it's IEN values. I can example, okay, it's IEN values. I can like math guys, tech guys could perceive like math guys, tech guys could perceive like math guys, tech guys could perceive okay that was a difficult technical okay that was a difficult technical okay that was a difficult technical problem that must have been the value problem that must have been the value problem that must have been the value that they created. It's part of it but that they created. It's part of it but that they created. It's part of it but you know the manager part is actually you know the manager part is actually you know the manager part is actually more point being though that at least more point being though that at least more point being though that at least somebody could say okay these tech guys somebody could say okay these tech guys somebody could say okay these tech guys are better at math and science than me are better at math and science than me are better at math and science than me therefore their compensation is merited. therefore their compensation is merited. therefore their compensation is merited. Now however the thing is that bouncing a Now however the thing is that bouncing a Now however the thing is that bouncing a basketball or trying a math problem were basketball or trying a math problem were basketball or trying a math problem were cheap to make somebody manager of a cheap to make somebody manager of a cheap to make somebody manager of a company was expensive. So they couldn't company was expensive. So they couldn't company was expensive. So they couldn't try and fail. They could try and fail try and fail. They could try and fail try and fail. They could try and fail playing basketball and see how much they playing basketball and see how much they playing basketball and see how much they sucked. sucked. sucked. They could try and fail singing, see how They could try and fail singing, see how They could try and fail singing, see how much they suck. They could try and fail much they suck. They could try and fail much they suck. They could try and fail in math, see how much they sucked very in math, see how much they sucked very in math, see how much they sucked very cheaply in high school. They would learn cheaply in high school. They would learn cheaply in high school. They would learn their true ability level that they're their true ability level that they're their true ability level that they're not able to run like a bolt. They can't not able to run like a bolt. They can't not able to run like a bolt. They can't sing like Adele, right? They can't do sing like Adele, right? They can't do sing like Adele, right? They can't do math like uh Terrence Tao, right? And math like uh Terrence Tao, right? And math like uh Terrence Tao, right? And they'd say, you know what, I know where they'd say, you know what, I know where they'd say, you know what, I know where I am. I know my strengths and I am. I know my strengths and I am. I know my strengths and weaknesses. I'm okay with that person weaknesses. I'm okay with that person weaknesses. I'm okay with that person having more or having higher status having more or having higher status having more or having higher status because it was a fair competition. I got because it was a fair competition. I got because it was a fair competition. I got a shot. It was cheap for me to try. But a shot. It was cheap for me to try. But a shot. It was cheap for me to try. But because putting them in charge of an because putting them in charge of an because putting them in charge of an organization to make them CEO was organization to make them CEO was organization to make them CEO was expensive, many people persist in the expensive, many people persist in the expensive, many people persist in the delusion that the CEO adds nothing to delusion that the CEO adds nothing to delusion that the CEO adds nothing to the organization. the organization. the organization. Right? And uh you know though it is say Right? And uh you know though it is say Right? And uh you know though it is say I will say the best cos and the worst I will say the best cos and the worst I will say the best cos and the worst cos have something very deep in common. cos have something very deep in common. cos have something very deep in common. You know what that is? You know what that is? You know what that is? >> What >> What >> What >> the organization can run without them >> the organization can run without them >> the organization can run without them >> because the very best CEOs set up a >> because the very best CEOs set up a >> because the very best CEOs set up a right a machine so that they don't have right a machine so that they don't have right a machine so that they don't have to micromanage it every day. That's to micromanage it every day. That's to micromanage it every day. That's really hard to do because they need really hard to do because they need really hard to do because they need basically, you know, Gwin Shotwell basically, you know, Gwin Shotwell basically, you know, Gwin Shotwell running SpaceX is like Elon doesn't have running SpaceX is like Elon doesn't have running SpaceX is like Elon doesn't have to look at every single detail because to look at every single detail because to look at every single detail because she's so so so good, right? Like uh or she's so so so good, right? Like uh or she's so so so good, right? Like uh or Vibe and and Tom Zoo on Tesla, like Vibe and and Tom Zoo on Tesla, like Vibe and and Tom Zoo on Tesla, like they're so good, right? But recruiting they're so good, right? But recruiting they're so good, right? But recruiting junior Elons that are okay with not junior Elons that are okay with not junior Elons that are okay with not having the spotlight while Elon has a having the spotlight while Elon has a having the spotlight while Elon has a spotlight and takes all the flack, spotlight and takes all the flack, spotlight and takes all the flack, non-trivial to do. Go try it sometime, non-trivial to do. Go try it sometime, non-trivial to do. Go try it sometime, right? Find somebody who's more detail right? Find somebody who's more detail right? Find somebody who's more detail oriented than Elon to run your company oriented than Elon to run your company oriented than Elon to run your company and you can be Elon, right? Okay. So and you can be Elon, right? Okay. So and you can be Elon, right? Okay. So point being that um point being that um point being that um now what AI does it reduces the cost. now what AI does it reduces the cost. now what AI does it reduces the cost. You're you know AI doesn't take your You're you know AI doesn't take your You're you know AI doesn't take your job. AI makes you a CEO. You're the CEO. job. AI makes you a CEO. You're the CEO. job. AI makes you a CEO. You're the CEO. Now what is being CEO? It's writing up Now what is being CEO? It's writing up Now what is being CEO? It's writing up clear instructions of what you want clear instructions of what you want clear instructions of what you want sensing the market verifying the output sensing the market verifying the output sensing the market verifying the output and so on and so forth. What that means and so on and so forth. What that means and so on and so forth. What that means is all these people around the world is all these people around the world is all these people around the world like you know the calendarly founder is like you know the calendarly founder is like you know the calendarly founder is Nigerian right? There's many founders Nigerian right? There's many founders Nigerian right? There's many founders who are from countries that were quote who are from countries that were quote who are from countries that were quote poor countries or what have you, from poor countries or what have you, from poor countries or what have you, from India, from Latin America and so on. India, from Latin America and so on. India, from Latin America and so on. Internet access means all of these smart Internet access means all of these smart Internet access means all of these smart people can get very far on zero people can get very far on zero people can get very far on zero resources. Very far, right? Because the resources. Very far, right? Because the resources. Very far, right? Because the cost of quote hiring someone is cost of quote hiring someone is cost of quote hiring someone is hyperlated. You can hire an AI to do it, hyperlated. You can hire an AI to do it, hyperlated. You can hire an AI to do it, right? To riff on that more. So AI right? To riff on that more. So AI right? To riff on that more. So AI doesn't take your job. AI makes you a doesn't take your job. AI makes you a doesn't take your job. AI makes you a CEO. Another one is AI doesn't take your CEO. Another one is AI doesn't take your CEO. Another one is AI doesn't take your job. AI takes the job of the previous job. AI takes the job of the previous job. AI takes the job of the previous AI. Claude took Chat GBT's job. Right. AI. Claude took Chat GBT's job. Right. AI. Claude took Chat GBT's job. Right. Um just like midjourney you know took uh Um just like midjourney you know took uh Um just like midjourney you know took uh took Dolli's job took stable diffusion's took Dolli's job took stable diffusion's took Dolli's job took stable diffusion's job and you can syn systematize that. job and you can syn systematize that. job and you can syn systematize that. What I literally have is I have a What I literally have is I have a What I literally have is I have a spreadsheet where I have AI coding tool, spreadsheet where I have AI coding tool, spreadsheet where I have AI coding tool, AI image tool, AI video tool like this AI image tool, AI video tool like this AI image tool, AI video tool like this and I have some subcategories like best and I have some subcategories like best and I have some subcategories like best tool for AI comics for AI graphics and tool for AI comics for AI graphics and tool for AI comics for AI graphics and so on and so forth. And then in a given so on and so forth. And then in a given so on and so forth. And then in a given month I have the best uh model for that month I have the best uh model for that month I have the best uh model for that kind of thing in that month. So claude kind of thing in that month. So claude kind of thing in that month. So claude code you know for example or midjourney code you know for example or midjourney code you know for example or midjourney for AI imagery. And then when that gets for AI imagery. And then when that gets for AI imagery. And then when that gets swapped out AI didn't take your job. AI swapped out AI didn't take your job. AI swapped out AI didn't take your job. AI took the job the previous AI. So I'm took the job the previous AI. So I'm took the job the previous AI. So I'm hiring the AI. I literally have the hiring the AI. I literally have the hiring the AI. I literally have the token budget. I have the budget for token budget. I have the budget for token budget. I have the budget for those rows. And that is literally how those rows. And that is literally how those rows. And that is literally how across an organization you say okay across an organization you say okay across an organization you say okay we've just fired you know codeex and we've just fired you know codeex and we've just fired you know codeex and we've hired claude we've hired claude we've hired claude right so AI doesn't take your job AI right so AI doesn't take your job AI right so AI doesn't take your job AI takes the job of the previous AI a third takes the job of the previous AI a third takes the job of the previous AI a third version is um AI doesn't take your job version is um AI doesn't take your job version is um AI doesn't take your job AI lets you do any job AI lets you do any job AI lets you do any job a little bit right you can be a pretty a little bit right you can be a pretty a little bit right you can be a pretty good artist you can be a pretty good good artist you can be a pretty good good artist you can be a pretty good musician you can it's like one of the musician you can it's like one of the musician you can it's like one of the things about being CEO as you know you things about being CEO as you know you things about being CEO as you know you often have to be like a six or a heaven often have to be like a six or a heaven often have to be like a six or a heaven in many areas. Why? Because you have to in many areas. Why? Because you have to in many areas. Why? Because you have to be able to do the job well enough before be able to do the job well enough before be able to do the job well enough before you hire a specialist in that area, you hire a specialist in that area, you hire a specialist in that area, right? Before you have a chief designer, right? Before you have a chief designer, right? Before you have a chief designer, you're the designer if you're the you're the designer if you're the you're the designer if you're the founder CEO, right? Before you have a founder CEO, right? Before you have a founder CEO, right? Before you have a CFO, you're the one who's on the hook. CFO, you're the one who's on the hook. CFO, you're the one who's on the hook. Prepare the financials, prepare the Prepare the financials, prepare the Prepare the financials, prepare the returns or whatever, right? So, you have returns or whatever, right? So, you have returns or whatever, right? So, you have to be a generalist who's pretty good and to be a generalist who's pretty good and to be a generalist who's pretty good and in a pinch can do that role, can in a pinch can do that role, can in a pinch can do that role, can supervise that. That's why it's so hard. supervise that. That's why it's so hard. supervise that. That's why it's so hard. That's why being CEO is so much harder That's why being CEO is so much harder That's why being CEO is so much harder than any executive position. Okay? AI than any executive position. Okay? AI than any executive position. Okay? AI helps you with that where you can get to helps you with that where you can get to helps you with that where you can get to a six or a seven. You can be like a a six or a seven. You can be like a a six or a seven. You can be like a generalist, but a specialist is usually generalist, but a specialist is usually generalist, but a specialist is usually needed for polish. needed for polish. needed for polish. A specialist has a vocabulary. A A specialist has a vocabulary. A A specialist has a vocabulary. A specialist can confirm the AI is making specialist can confirm the AI is making specialist can confirm the AI is making mistakes that it's hallucinating and so mistakes that it's hallucinating and so mistakes that it's hallucinating and so on and so forth. And again, people will on and so forth. And again, people will on and so forth. And again, people will constantly argue as to whether that will constantly argue as to whether that will constantly argue as to whether that will always be there or whether it'll go away always be there or whether it'll go away always be there or whether it'll go away or whether AI will raise a bar and then or whether AI will raise a bar and then or whether AI will raise a bar and then you know now the new specialist is even you know now the new specialist is even you know now the new specialist is even more sophisticated with AI, right? more sophisticated with AI, right? more sophisticated with AI, right? >> I want to zoom out a couple more talks >> I want to zoom out a couple more talks >> I want to zoom out a couple more talks before we go. One is the SAS apocalypse. before we go. One is the SAS apocalypse. before we go. One is the SAS apocalypse. I'm curious what your mental model is I'm curious what your mental model is I'm curious what your mental model is for all these SAS companies. Um are they for all these SAS companies. Um are they for all these SAS companies. Um are they you know some people say hey they've no you know some people say hey they've no you know some people say hey they've no their modes have gone away. They've no their modes have gone away. They've no their modes have gone away. They've no you know code mode no data mode no more you know code mode no data mode no more you know code mode no data mode no more UI mode and um now there's going to be UI mode and um now there's going to be UI mode and um now there's going to be AI native companies that sort of you AI native companies that sort of you AI native companies that sort of you know take up a big chunk of what what know take up a big chunk of what what know take up a big chunk of what what what they do like you know Figma you what they do like you know Figma you what they do like you know Figma you know who we're invested I'm personally know who we're invested I'm personally know who we're invested I'm personally invested in you some people are bullish invested in you some people are bullish invested in you some people are bullish as an example just because it's as an example just because it's as an example just because it's founderled and and they'll continue to founderled and and they'll continue to founderled and and they'll continue to innovate. Some people say, "Hey, is innovate. Some people say, "Hey, is innovate. Some people say, "Hey, is there a role for a designer in the same there a role for a designer in the same there a role for a designer in the same way that there used to be? Now it way that there used to be? Now it way that there used to be? Now it fundamentally changes and you know what fundamentally changes and you know what fundamentally changes and you know what what does that do to collaboration tool what does that do to collaboration tool what does that do to collaboration tool to tools like that?" What is your your to tools like that?" What is your your to tools like that?" What is your your thought on on the SAS apocalypse? Is thought on on the SAS apocalypse? Is thought on on the SAS apocalypse? Is everybody on the conveyor belt on the everybody on the conveyor belt on the everybody on the conveyor belt on the way to the guillotine? Um h how do you way to the guillotine? Um h how do you way to the guillotine? Um h how do you think about that? think about that? think about that? >> I don't think so because I think if >> I don't think so because I think if >> I don't think so because I think if they're smart then the thing that AI they're smart then the thing that AI they're smart then the thing that AI can't do is distribution, right? So if can't do is distribution, right? So if can't do is distribution, right? So if you have notion, you have Figma, you you have notion, you have Figma, you you have notion, you have Figma, you have now replet and so and so forth. have now replet and so and so forth. have now replet and so and so forth. You've got all these people and boom, You've got all these people and boom, You've got all these people and boom, you can ship with AI faster, you know, you can ship with AI faster, you know, you can ship with AI faster, you know, features to them, right? And um so in features to them, right? And um so in features to them, right? And um so in that sense, I don't believe in the SAS that sense, I don't believe in the SAS that sense, I don't believe in the SAS apocalypse. I think you might still see apocalypse. I think you might still see apocalypse. I think you might still see SAS under pressure from people who can SAS under pressure from people who can SAS under pressure from people who can clone the interface quickly. That is clone the interface quickly. That is clone the interface quickly. That is true. I think people will build local true. I think people will build local true. I think people will build local versions. That is true. I think people versions. That is true. I think people versions. That is true. I think people may not want their data on remote may not want their data on remote may not want their data on remote servers. they might want desktop servers. they might want desktop servers. they might want desktop versions with local data. So they can versions with local data. So they can versions with local data. So they can like for example uh Obsidian is going to like for example uh Obsidian is going to like for example uh Obsidian is going to become more of a contender versus notion become more of a contender versus notion become more of a contender versus notion because the markdown files there's a because the markdown files there's a because the markdown files there's a network effect on data when it's local network effect on data when it's local network effect on data when it's local and you can analyze the whole thing like and you can analyze the whole thing like and you can analyze the whole thing like local data you get compounding data local data you get compounding data local data you get compounding data right so but so so in a in the naive right so but so so in a in the naive right so but so so in a in the naive sense that oh anyone can clone anything sense that oh anyone can clone anything sense that oh anyone can clone anything and so therefore you know it it just and so therefore you know it it just and so therefore you know it it just doesn't work like that like if you set doesn't work like that like if you set doesn't work like that like if you set up if you cloned all of Facebook's code up if you cloned all of Facebook's code up if you cloned all of Facebook's code and you set up facebook.com and you set up facebook.com and you set up facebook.com right? Or Instagram2.com. Who's going to right? Or Instagram2.com. Who's going to right? Or Instagram2.com. Who's going to log into that? Right? You could log into that? Right? You could log into that? Right? You could literally have every single thing coded literally have every single thing coded literally have every single thing coded there, but your your ad rates are going there, but your your ad rates are going there, but your your ad rates are going to be far lower because no one's going to be far lower because no one's going to be far lower because no one's going to log into it, right? The distribution. to log into it, right? The distribution. to log into it, right? The distribution. That's like a thought experiment to say That's like a thought experiment to say That's like a thought experiment to say if you just clone the whole thing, you if you just clone the whole thing, you if you just clone the whole thing, you still have to get the distribution for still have to get the distribution for still have to get the distribution for it. And so it's not just a cloning, it's it. And so it's not just a cloning, it's it. And so it's not just a cloning, it's execution. Now with that said like execution. Now with that said like execution. Now with that said like there's certain kinds of things like there's certain kinds of things like there's certain kinds of things like let's say Netswuite right which suck let's say Netswuite right which suck let's say Netswuite right which suck that but they're complicated that but they're complicated that but they're complicated where I think it is true that if they where I think it is true that if they where I think it is true that if they suck at execution or or rather many say suck at execution or or rather many say suck at execution or or rather many say they suck like I hate the product put it they suck like I hate the product put it they suck like I hate the product put it like that right zero's better but you like that right zero's better but you like that right zero's better but you know like sorry Netswuite okay they're a know like sorry Netswuite okay they're a know like sorry Netswuite okay they're a big company you won't have your feelings big company you won't have your feelings big company you won't have your feelings hurt it's very rare that I ever say any hurt it's very rare that I ever say any hurt it's very rare that I ever say any product sucks because um I don't hurt product sucks because um I don't hurt product sucks because um I don't hurt anybody's feelings so hopefully I didn't anybody's feelings so hopefully I didn't anybody's feelings so hopefully I didn't strike that from the record fine strike that from the record fine strike that from the record fine Netswuite's product could be improved. Netswuite's product could be improved. Netswuite's product could be improved. Okay. Um so uh something like that which Okay. Um so uh something like that which Okay. Um so uh something like that which is like sort of a vulnerable incumbent is like sort of a vulnerable incumbent is like sort of a vulnerable incumbent that's just milking and that hasn't done that's just milking and that hasn't done that's just milking and that hasn't done anything for a while. Yes, I think they anything for a while. Yes, I think they anything for a while. Yes, I think they can get disrupted but I'm not sure that can get disrupted but I'm not sure that can get disrupted but I'm not sure that it's like uh I don't think it's quite it's like uh I don't think it's quite it's like uh I don't think it's quite like oh everybody on Blackberry is going like oh everybody on Blackberry is going like oh everybody on Blackberry is going to die because iOS is taking over. I to die because iOS is taking over. I to die because iOS is taking over. I don't think it's quite like that because don't think it's quite like that because don't think it's quite like that because I think AI can accelerate a SAS company I think AI can accelerate a SAS company I think AI can accelerate a SAS company just like it can accelerate a disruptor. just like it can accelerate a disruptor. just like it can accelerate a disruptor. I think it kind of accelerates both. I think it kind of accelerates both. I think it kind of accelerates both. >> Yeah. Well, one last thing that we'll >> Yeah. Well, one last thing that we'll >> Yeah. Well, one last thing that we'll get to Anthropic, uh, what happens if get to Anthropic, uh, what happens if get to Anthropic, uh, what happens if let's say Anthropic, you know, becomes a let's say Anthropic, you know, becomes a let's say Anthropic, you know, becomes a multi- trillion dollar company, right? multi- trillion dollar company, right? multi- trillion dollar company, right? Um, like how much leverage do they have Um, like how much leverage do they have Um, like how much leverage do they have or just even private companies in or just even private companies in or just even private companies in general o over what is the relationship general o over what is the relationship general o over what is the relationship between them and governments? Are they between them and governments? Are they between them and governments? Are they like hiring their own militaries at some like hiring their own militaries at some like hiring their own militaries at some some point? What does it look like when some point? What does it look like when some point? What does it look like when these companies become uh you know 10x these companies become uh you know 10x these companies become uh you know 10x bigger you know 50x when AI really bigger you know 50x when AI really bigger you know 50x when AI really achieves its its potential and these achieves its its potential and these achieves its its potential and these companies are bigger than than the companies are bigger than than the companies are bigger than than the biggest countries. biggest countries. biggest countries. So I think that at least that specific So I think that at least that specific So I think that at least that specific company while it executes very well um I company while it executes very well um I company while it executes very well um I am skeptical as to whether they're am skeptical as to whether they're am skeptical as to whether they're executing well let's call it politically executing well let's call it politically executing well let's call it politically um and so because of that if they like um and so because of that if they like um and so because of that if they like ultimately at the very largest scale ultimately at the very largest scale ultimately at the very largest scale markets are political like for example markets are political like for example markets are political like for example there's an entrepreneur they raised from there's an entrepreneur they raised from there's an entrepreneur they raised from a VC who raised from LP who's often a a VC who raised from LP who's often a a VC who raised from LP who's often a sovereign fund or a pension fund and sovereign fund or a pension fund and sovereign fund or a pension fund and they're under a state and they're under they're under a state and they're under they're under a state and they're under the rulesbased order, right? So like the rulesbased order, right? So like the rulesbased order, right? So like there's certain things that are at the there's certain things that are at the there's certain things that are at the macro level that you don't perceive macro level that you don't perceive macro level that you don't perceive because one thinks of them as concepts because one thinks of them as concepts because one thinks of them as concepts but become variables, I think that but become variables, I think that but become variables, I think that unless one is very very savvy that those unless one is very very savvy that those unless one is very very savvy that those things could change. Like one thing I things could change. Like one thing I things could change. Like one thing I think about uh the Silicon Valley AI think about uh the Silicon Valley AI think about uh the Silicon Valley AI companies is they're actually scaler companies is they're actually scaler companies is they're actually scaler rather than vector thinkers. rather than vector thinkers. rather than vector thinkers. They're only modeling AI disruption They're only modeling AI disruption They're only modeling AI disruption and they're not modeling all the other and they're not modeling all the other and they're not modeling all the other simultaneous singularities, all the simultaneous singularities, all the simultaneous singularities, all the political singularities that are political singularities that are political singularities that are happening, all things like, you know, happening, all things like, you know, happening, all things like, you know, solar mooning and stuff like that, solar mooning and stuff like that, solar mooning and stuff like that, right? And why are those things right? And why are those things right? And why are those things important? because they change the important? because they change the important? because they change the leverage of political factions which in leverage of political factions which in leverage of political factions which in turns means their world model is turns means their world model is turns means their world model is incorrect because they're only if you're incorrect because they're only if you're incorrect because they're only if you're only extrapolating out AI and you're not only extrapolating out AI and you're not only extrapolating out AI and you're not trapping out all the other things that trapping out all the other things that trapping out all the other things that are either going vertical or going down are either going vertical or going down are either going vertical or going down like this then uh they don't have a like this then uh they don't have a like this then uh they don't have a proper model of the future proper model of the future proper model of the future and that's that's as vague I I'll be and that's that's as vague I I'll be and that's that's as vague I I'll be much more precise on my own blog um but much more precise on my own blog um but much more precise on my own blog um but that's that's that's says P or PG that's how I can say it says P or PG that's how I can say it says P or PG that's how I can say it Without pissing anybody off, just go to Without pissing anybody off, just go to Without pissing anybody off, just go to x.comgs and you'll see what I mean by x.comgs and you'll see what I mean by x.comgs and you'll see what I mean by that. Right? But TLDDR is I think the that. Right? But TLDDR is I think the that. Right? But TLDDR is I think the American AI companies as much as they've American AI companies as much as they've American AI companies as much as they've given to the world and I like them are given to the world and I like them are given to the world and I like them are only mo they are basically thinking all only mo they are basically thinking all only mo they are basically thinking all nation states continue to exist in their nation states continue to exist in their nation states continue to exist in their current form and the only disruption is current form and the only disruption is current form and the only disruption is AI like they still model as America AI like they still model as America AI like they still model as America versus China for example. They don't versus China for example. They don't versus China for example. They don't model internal things internal issues. model internal things internal issues. model internal things internal issues. They think the reserve currency sticks They think the reserve currency sticks They think the reserve currency sticks around. They think all these things around. They think all these things around. They think all these things stick around, right? um they aren't stick around, right? um they aren't stick around, right? um they aren't taking a multivariat approach in my view taking a multivariat approach in my view taking a multivariat approach in my view that's their weakness they have so many that's their weakness they have so many that's their weakness they have so many strengths but that's their big weakness strengths but that's their big weakness strengths but that's their big weakness so I don't think that in that form so I don't think that in that form so I don't think that in that form they're going to get to trillions in they're going to get to trillions in they're going to get to trillions in fact I think the counterattack on them fact I think the counterattack on them fact I think the counterattack on them is going to be so dramatic that it might is going to be so dramatic that it might is going to be so dramatic that it might be that you just have decentralized AI be that you just have decentralized AI be that you just have decentralized AI like American AI companies for example like American AI companies for example like American AI companies for example the copyright stuff right there's a huge the copyright stuff right there's a huge the copyright stuff right there's a huge backlash building against that whereas backlash building against that whereas backlash building against that whereas the Chinese or the decentralized models the Chinese or the decentralized models the Chinese or the decentralized models can just do anything Hollywood anything can just do anything Hollywood anything can just do anything Hollywood anything right potentially So the pirate bay kind right potentially So the pirate bay kind right potentially So the pirate bay kind of AI is actually more free. The less of AI is actually more free. The less of AI is actually more free. The less profitable AI is also less copyright AI profitable AI is also less copyright AI profitable AI is also less copyright AI might be better AI, you know. So just might be better AI, you know. So just might be better AI, you know. So just things to think about. I think uh you things to think about. I think uh you things to think about. I think uh you know things compound until they don't know things compound until they don't know things compound until they don't and they start hitting sigmoidal and they start hitting sigmoidal and they start hitting sigmoidal constraints and often backlash constraints and often backlash constraints and often backlash constraints like this, right? So I think constraints like this, right? So I think constraints like this, right? So I think that's what they're not modeling. Yeah. that's what they're not modeling. Yeah. that's what they're not modeling. Yeah. >> Political constraints. >> Political constraints. >> Political constraints. >> Makes sense. Okay. Let's let's get the >> Makes sense. Okay. Let's let's get the >> Makes sense. Okay. Let's let's get the zodal. zodal. zodal. >> Zodal. All right. Now this is what I >> Zodal. All right. Now this is what I >> Zodal. All right. Now this is what I care about. care about. care about. basically um you know AI is the attack basically um you know AI is the attack basically um you know AI is the attack but ZK is the defense. So what I mean by but ZK is the defense. So what I mean by but ZK is the defense. So what I mean by that is zero knowledge like you know that is zero knowledge like you know that is zero knowledge like you know what the transformer is to AI zero what the transformer is to AI zero what the transformer is to AI zero knowledge is to cryptography and um knowledge is to cryptography and um knowledge is to cryptography and um zodal is a Zcash powered mobile wallet zodal is a Zcash powered mobile wallet zodal is a Zcash powered mobile wallet um that is basically fully encrypted um that is basically fully encrypted um that is basically fully encrypted Bitcoin. Okay, this is 30 years of Bitcoin. Okay, this is 30 years of Bitcoin. Okay, this is 30 years of cryptography. This is basically what cryptography. This is basically what cryptography. This is basically what Milton Friedman wanted decades ago. Milton Friedman wanted decades ago. Milton Friedman wanted decades ago. There's actually this great clip. There's actually this great clip. There's actually this great clip. >> The one thing that's missing, but that >> The one thing that's missing, but that >> The one thing that's missing, but that will soon be developed, is a reliable will soon be developed, is a reliable will soon be developed, is a reliable ecash, a method whereby on the internet, ecash, a method whereby on the internet, ecash, a method whereby on the internet, you can transfer funds from A to B you can transfer funds from A to B you can transfer funds from A to B without A knowing B or B knowing A. The without A knowing B or B knowing A. The without A knowing B or B knowing A. The way in which I can take a $20 bill and way in which I can take a $20 bill and way in which I can take a $20 bill and hand it over to you and there's no hand it over to you and there's no hand it over to you and there's no record of where it came from. record of where it came from. record of where it came from. And you you may get that without knowing And you you may get that without knowing And you you may get that without knowing who I am. who I am. who I am. >> That kind of thing will develop on the >> That kind of thing will develop on the >> That kind of thing will develop on the internet and that will make it even internet and that will make it even internet and that will make it even easier for people to use the internet. easier for people to use the internet. easier for people to use the internet. Basically that is what uh Milton Basically that is what uh Milton Basically that is what uh Milton Friedman predicted almost 30 years ago. Friedman predicted almost 30 years ago. Friedman predicted almost 30 years ago. Okay, this is um uh in the '9s. Okay, it Okay, this is um uh in the '9s. Okay, it Okay, this is um uh in the '9s. Okay, it was like when the internet was just was like when the internet was just was like when the internet was just rising and zodal is the incarnation of rising and zodal is the incarnation of rising and zodal is the incarnation of that. Okay. Because zero knowledge that. Okay. Because zero knowledge that. Okay. Because zero knowledge proofs which basically mean anybody can proofs which basically mean anybody can proofs which basically mean anybody can prove anything without revealing prove anything without revealing prove anything without revealing anything else were developed and then anything else were developed and then anything else were developed and then they were commercialized in the form of they were commercialized in the form of they were commercialized in the form of Zcash scaled with zero knowledge proofs Zcash scaled with zero knowledge proofs Zcash scaled with zero knowledge proofs for scaling um Ethereum and with ZK for scaling um Ethereum and with ZK for scaling um Ethereum and with ZK roll-ups and things like that. And then roll-ups and things like that. And then roll-ups and things like that. And then they were made efficient so you could do they were made efficient so you could do they were made efficient so you could do them on mobile. And then finally Apple them on mobile. And then finally Apple them on mobile. And then finally Apple and Google lightened up on crypto apps and Google lightened up on crypto apps and Google lightened up on crypto apps on mobile. And so finally you can on mobile. And so finally you can on mobile. And so finally you can teleport arbitrary amounts of money teleport arbitrary amounts of money teleport arbitrary amounts of money around the world. around the world. around the world. And so this round we just led this with And so this round we just led this with And so this round we just led this with uh you guys crypto melvosses uh you guys crypto melvosses uh you guys crypto melvosses um Paradigm um Paradigm um Paradigm uh Coinbase uh Cureshi of Dragonfly as uh Coinbase uh Cureshi of Dragonfly as uh Coinbase uh Cureshi of Dragonfly as you know large fund um and you know a you know large fund um and you know a you know large fund um and you know a bunch of other uh uh great people. Um, bunch of other uh uh great people. Um, bunch of other uh uh great people. Um, and the uh the reason that that Arthur and the uh the reason that that Arthur and the uh the reason that that Arthur Hayes also was uh uh you know former Hayes also was uh uh you know former Hayes also was uh uh you know former former BitMXio and so the reason that former BitMXio and so the reason that former BitMXio and so the reason that this is super super super important this is super super super important this is super super super important there's only um you know you can click there's only um you know you can click there's only um you know you can click this you can install this on on web or this you can install this on on web or this you can install this on on web or not web on on iOS or Android right the not web on on iOS or Android right the not web on on iOS or Android right the reason this is so insanely important reason this is so insanely important reason this is so insanely important there's really only five crypto assets there's really only five crypto assets there's really only five crypto assets that I've spent more than a thousand that I've spent more than a thousand that I've spent more than a thousand hours on Bitcoin Ethereum Salana USDC hours on Bitcoin Ethereum Salana USDC hours on Bitcoin Ethereum Salana USDC Zcash and I actually think Zcash is Zcash and I actually think Zcash is Zcash and I actually think Zcash is maybe the most important of them in the maybe the most important of them in the maybe the most important of them in the years to come. Why? So, let me say at years to come. Why? So, let me say at years to come. Why? So, let me say at least my kind of thesis as of right now least my kind of thesis as of right now least my kind of thesis as of right now on fiat, gold, digital gold and digital on fiat, gold, digital gold and digital on fiat, gold, digital gold and digital cash meaning Zcash, right? So, I think cash meaning Zcash, right? So, I think cash meaning Zcash, right? So, I think fiat will be around particularly among fiat will be around particularly among fiat will be around particularly among eastern states because eastern states eastern states because eastern states eastern states because eastern states are broadly higher trust. So that's not are broadly higher trust. So that's not are broadly higher trust. So that's not just China, but it's like India and just China, but it's like India and just China, but it's like India and Southeast Asia, the ASEAN countries and Southeast Asia, the ASEAN countries and Southeast Asia, the ASEAN countries and so on. Bitcoin, so then physical gold, so on. Bitcoin, so then physical gold, so on. Bitcoin, so then physical gold, gold bricks are also very popular in the gold bricks are also very popular in the gold bricks are also very popular in the east. But the and and westerners often east. But the and and westerners often east. But the and and westerners often like gold, but they'll buy the like gold, but they'll buy the like gold, but they'll buy the instrument like you know, right? And instrument like you know, right? And instrument like you know, right? And there's gold. Tether, you know.io. So there's gold. Tether, you know.io. So there's gold. Tether, you know.io. So Tether has a digital as as a goldbacked Tether has a digital as as a goldbacked Tether has a digital as as a goldbacked stable coin, which is actually at 3.7 stable coin, which is actually at 3.7 stable coin, which is actually at 3.7 billion. So that's cool. X Aut is pretty billion. So that's cool. X Aut is pretty billion. So that's cool. X Aut is pretty cool. You can check that out. You have cool. You can check that out. You have cool. You can check that out. You have to trust Tether's redemption, but to trust Tether's redemption, but to trust Tether's redemption, but Tether's got a pretty good track record Tether's got a pretty good track record Tether's got a pretty good track record now over 10 years for with USDT and so now over 10 years for with USDT and so now over 10 years for with USDT and so on. So, XAT is cool. Fine. So, fiat will on. So, XAT is cool. Fine. So, fiat will on. So, XAT is cool. Fine. So, fiat will continue, I think, to have its role. Uh, continue, I think, to have its role. Uh, continue, I think, to have its role. Uh, just like the desktop continues, you just like the desktop continues, you just like the desktop continues, you know, desktop continues, you know, 30 know, desktop continues, you know, 30 know, desktop continues, you know, 30 years later. Windows and Apple are still years later. Windows and Apple are still years later. Windows and Apple are still releasing things. It's still valuable. releasing things. It's still valuable. releasing things. It's still valuable. Some of the actions moved away from it, Some of the actions moved away from it, Some of the actions moved away from it, but the desktop continues. Still a large but the desktop continues. Still a large but the desktop continues. Still a large business. So, fiat continues among business. So, fiat continues among business. So, fiat continues among eastern states. eastern states. eastern states. Gold, physical gold is more popular in Gold, physical gold is more popular in Gold, physical gold is more popular in the east because you can secure it more. the east because you can secure it more. the east because you can secure it more. There's going to be more stability. X There's going to be more stability. X There's going to be more stability. X aut may be what's popular in the west. aut may be what's popular in the west. aut may be what's popular in the west. Now we come to Bitcoin. What is my view Now we come to Bitcoin. What is my view Now we come to Bitcoin. What is my view on Bitcoin as of 2026 March? Bitcoin has on Bitcoin as of 2026 March? Bitcoin has on Bitcoin as of 2026 March? Bitcoin has become provable global institutional become provable global institutional become provable global institutional collateral. collateral. collateral. Okay. I think Bitcoin is less of a Okay. I think Bitcoin is less of a Okay. I think Bitcoin is less of a currency for individuals now. has become currency for individuals now. has become currency for individuals now. has become so accepted by institutions and so so accepted by institutions and so so accepted by institutions and so centralized with Black Rockck and Sailor centralized with Black Rockck and Sailor centralized with Black Rockck and Sailor and so on and so forth and Belli and and so on and so forth and Belli and and so on and so forth and Belli and many countries adopting it and whatnot many countries adopting it and whatnot many countries adopting it and whatnot that it has a unique thing. See, when that it has a unique thing. See, when that it has a unique thing. See, when you say there's a certain number of gold you say there's a certain number of gold you say there's a certain number of gold bricks in Fort Knox, even giving a video bricks in Fort Knox, even giving a video bricks in Fort Knox, even giving a video of that can now be faked very very of that can now be faked very very of that can now be faked very very realistically with AI, right? But what realistically with AI, right? But what realistically with AI, right? But what can't be faked is what Blly does where can't be faked is what Blly does where can't be faked is what Blly does where he posts, I have this public address he posts, I have this public address he posts, I have this public address with this much BTC and watch, I'm going with this much BTC and watch, I'm going with this much BTC and watch, I'm going to move it to this address, to move it to this address, to move it to this address, right? That is something which so long right? That is something which so long right? That is something which so long as it's actually Blly's Twitter account as it's actually Blly's Twitter account as it's actually Blly's Twitter account which there's some degree of proof on which there's some degree of proof on which there's some degree of proof on that you know because it's been around that you know because it's been around that you know because it's been around preai or whatever so long as you believe preai or whatever so long as you believe preai or whatever so long as you believe that and that's the one piece you have that and that's the one piece you have that and that's the one piece you have to believe because you have to start to believe because you have to start to believe because you have to start thinking about what is what am I what am thinking about what is what am I what am thinking about what is what am I what am I taking as a premise right he can post I taking as a premise right he can post I taking as a premise right he can post I have the coins at this address here's I have the coins at this address here's I have the coins at this address here's the address I'm going to move it to when the address I'm going to move it to when the address I'm going to move it to when I move it I have proven I have custody I move it I have proven I have custody I move it I have proven I have custody it's proof of reserve right you can also it's proof of reserve right you can also it's proof of reserve right you can also sign a message coming from with that sign a message coming from with that sign a message coming from with that private key you don't have to even move private key you don't have to even move private key you don't have to even move it it it the point being that provable the point being that provable the point being that provable global institutional collateral. Anybody global institutional collateral. Anybody global institutional collateral. Anybody in the world, he can prove cheaply in the world, he can prove cheaply in the world, he can prove cheaply anybody the world that he has this anybody the world that he has this anybody the world that he has this amount of Bitcoin. You cannot do that amount of Bitcoin. You cannot do that amount of Bitcoin. You cannot do that for physical gold bricks. for physical gold bricks. for physical gold bricks. In a lower trust world, especially in an In a lower trust world, especially in an In a lower trust world, especially in an online world, that's very valuable online world, that's very valuable online world, that's very valuable because everything gold audits, videos because everything gold audits, videos because everything gold audits, videos of gold audits can now be faked with AI. of gold audits can now be faked with AI. of gold audits can now be faked with AI. But the provable global institutional But the provable global institutional But the provable global institutional collateral, now institutions can prove collateral, now institutions can prove collateral, now institutions can prove they have the BTC to each other. they have the BTC to each other. they have the BTC to each other. Okay. And they can do so across borders. Okay. And they can do so across borders. Okay. And they can do so across borders. So the transparency of Bitcoin in the So the transparency of Bitcoin in the So the transparency of Bitcoin in the sense of all assets are on chain becomes sense of all assets are on chain becomes sense of all assets are on chain becomes valuable. Now the thing about this is valuable. Now the thing about this is valuable. Now the thing about this is with the advent of AI, chain analysis with the advent of AI, chain analysis with the advent of AI, chain analysis will be there for everybody, right? will be there for everybody, right? will be there for everybody, right? Everybody can do blockchain analytics. Everybody can do blockchain analytics. Everybody can do blockchain analytics. This is just like changing the balance This is just like changing the balance This is just like changing the balance of power. It used to be that only chain of power. It used to be that only chain of power. It used to be that only chain analysis could really do that at the analysis could really do that at the analysis could really do that at the scale that it can. Now it's becoming scale that it can. Now it's becoming scale that it can. Now it's becoming much easier to do. And so a lot of much easier to do. And so a lot of much easier to do. And so a lot of Bitcoin use will be deanonymized over Bitcoin use will be deanonymized over Bitcoin use will be deanonymized over time. time. time. And so if you're running a transparent And so if you're running a transparent And so if you're running a transparent blockchain, it becomes an institutional blockchain, it becomes an institutional blockchain, it becomes an institutional blockchain because it's just only an blockchain because it's just only an blockchain because it's just only an institution can survive that degree of institution can survive that degree of institution can survive that degree of transparency. Like individuals can't transparency. Like individuals can't transparency. Like individuals can't survive being tracked for everything. survive being tracked for everything. survive being tracked for everything. But institutions are it's like a public But institutions are it's like a public But institutions are it's like a public company. It's supposed to be tracked, company. It's supposed to be tracked, company. It's supposed to be tracked, right? You know, like that. It's like right? You know, like that. It's like right? You know, like that. It's like sort of it's because robust enough it's sort of it's because robust enough it's sort of it's because robust enough it's meant to be tracked in a certain way. meant to be tracked in a certain way. meant to be tracked in a certain way. It's designed to be tracked, right? an It's designed to be tracked, right? an It's designed to be tracked, right? an individual, a person is not meant to be individual, a person is not meant to be individual, a person is not meant to be public, but a corporation can be, right? public, but a corporation can be, right? public, but a corporation can be, right? It's funny to put it this way. There's a It's funny to put it this way. There's a It's funny to put it this way. There's a private individual, private individual, private individual, there's a private company, and there's a there's a private company, and there's a there's a private company, and there's a public company, but I guess you could public company, but I guess you could public company, but I guess you could say, "Oh, it's a public figure, but say, "Oh, it's a public figure, but say, "Oh, it's a public figure, but people don't like being public figures, people don't like being public figures, people don't like being public figures, but there's kind of an equivalent there, but there's kind of an equivalent there, but there's kind of an equivalent there, right? A public figure, maybe some of right? A public figure, maybe some of right? A public figure, maybe some of their stuff is tracked, but they don't their stuff is tracked, but they don't their stuff is tracked, but they don't want everything to be tracked." A public want everything to be tracked." A public want everything to be tracked." A public company, maybe all their stuff is company, maybe all their stuff is company, maybe all their stuff is tracked. Fine. tracked. Fine. tracked. Fine. Provable global institutional Provable global institutional Provable global institutional collateral. There's another thing which collateral. There's another thing which collateral. There's another thing which is that way of thinking about what is that way of thinking about what is that way of thinking about what Bitcoin is solved some of the major Bitcoin is solved some of the major Bitcoin is solved some of the major issues. Um quantum right which is Nick issues. Um quantum right which is Nick issues. Um quantum right which is Nick Carter's put out these things on it. Carter's put out these things on it. Carter's put out these things on it. Let's say Nick Carter is right and I Let's say Nick Carter is right and I Let's say Nick Carter is right and I think he might be right that quantum is think he might be right that quantum is think he might be right that quantum is an underappreciated threat. The Bitcoin an underappreciated threat. The Bitcoin an underappreciated threat. The Bitcoin core developers aren't taking it core developers aren't taking it core developers aren't taking it seriously and even if it was something seriously and even if it was something seriously and even if it was something that they've rolled out tomorrow it that they've rolled out tomorrow it that they've rolled out tomorrow it would still be a multi-month migration would still be a multi-month migration would still be a multi-month migration process because ECDSA like the addresses process because ECDSA like the addresses process because ECDSA like the addresses you everybody has to manually send their you everybody has to manually send their you everybody has to manually send their assets from one address to a new assets from one address to a new assets from one address to a new address. Okay. So you you can only do address. Okay. So you you can only do address. Okay. So you you can only do whatever 100 thousand of people those whatever 100 thousand of people those whatever 100 thousand of people those assets can be moved in a given day. assets can be moved in a given day. assets can be moved in a given day. However, if you look at Bitcoin rich However, if you look at Bitcoin rich However, if you look at Bitcoin rich list, Bitcoin is so topheavy, list, Bitcoin is so topheavy, list, Bitcoin is so topheavy, right, that it's got so these right, that it's got so these right, that it's got so these institutional addresses that you have to institutional addresses that you have to institutional addresses that you have to do the math, but probably a few million do the math, but probably a few million do the math, but probably a few million addresses all moving their funds would addresses all moving their funds would addresses all moving their funds would move like 99% of the Bitcoin in a few move like 99% of the Bitcoin in a few move like 99% of the Bitcoin in a few days. days. days. And so Bitcoin is digital gold actually And so Bitcoin is digital gold actually And so Bitcoin is digital gold actually is quantum resistant. It's Bitcoin is is quantum resistant. It's Bitcoin is is quantum resistant. It's Bitcoin is digital cash that isn't right. Meaning a digital cash that isn't right. Meaning a digital cash that isn't right. Meaning a million like institutions all moving million like institutions all moving million like institutions all moving their assets can be done in a few days their assets can be done in a few days their assets can be done in a few days but a billion people all moving like but a billion people all moving like but a billion people all moving like five bucks or whatever can't be done in five bucks or whatever can't be done in five bucks or whatever can't be done in any reasonable amount of time. Okay. So any reasonable amount of time. Okay. So any reasonable amount of time. Okay. So everybody who can't move then gets everybody who can't move then gets everybody who can't move then gets quantumdmed and anybody who can doesn't quantumdmed and anybody who can doesn't quantumdmed and anybody who can doesn't but all the assets are concentrated the but all the assets are concentrated the but all the assets are concentrated the big guys with me right and this also big guys with me right and this also big guys with me right and this also extends to seizure like will all the extends to seizure like will all the extends to seizure like will all the centralized bitcoin on coinbas's servers centralized bitcoin on coinbas's servers centralized bitcoin on coinbas's servers seller servers etc get seized I think seller servers etc get seized I think seller servers etc get seized I think it's quite likely I think it eventually it's quite likely I think it eventually it's quite likely I think it eventually gets seized in some exigent circumstance gets seized in some exigent circumstance gets seized in some exigent circumstance and so and so and so it becomes something that I think only it becomes something that I think only it becomes something that I think only an institutionally blessed thing can an institutionally blessed thing can an institutionally blessed thing can hold and send, right? Provable global hold and send, right? Provable global hold and send, right? Provable global insert collateral. This is a different insert collateral. This is a different insert collateral. This is a different vision than what people wanted, but it's vision than what people wanted, but it's vision than what people wanted, but it's actually still a valuable thing. What it actually still a valuable thing. What it actually still a valuable thing. What it leaves open is the individual digital leaves open is the individual digital leaves open is the individual digital cash case, right? Because gold is big cash case, right? Because gold is big cash case, right? Because gold is big bricks that are moved in brink trucks or bricks that are moved in brink trucks or bricks that are moved in brink trucks or the equivalent thereof infrequently the equivalent thereof infrequently the equivalent thereof infrequently large denominations between large denominations between large denominations between institutions, right? It's like the institutions, right? It's like the institutions, right? It's like the high-powered back-end money, right? It's high-powered back-end money, right? It's high-powered back-end money, right? It's not really meant for individuals. Cash not really meant for individuals. Cash not really meant for individuals. Cash is the opposite. It's me spent for is the opposite. It's me spent for is the opposite. It's me spent for individuals more than it's meant for individuals more than it's meant for individuals more than it's meant for institutions. So Zcash takes over the institutions. So Zcash takes over the institutions. So Zcash takes over the role of digital cash. role of digital cash. role of digital cash. So that's fungeable, private, scalable So that's fungeable, private, scalable So that's fungeable, private, scalable with Tachion, which is coming quantum with Tachion, which is coming quantum with Tachion, which is coming quantum safe. Okay, which is also it's more safe. Okay, which is also it's more safe. Okay, which is also it's more quantum safe, right? So that's why and quantum safe, right? So that's why and quantum safe, right? So that's why and it's simple also. Zcash is probably not it's simple also. Zcash is probably not it's simple also. Zcash is probably not going to ever do smart contracts. It's going to ever do smart contracts. It's going to ever do smart contracts. It's going to keep it really simple. Why? going to keep it really simple. Why? going to keep it really simple. Why? Because like um you know if you take Because like um you know if you take Because like um you know if you take Bitcoin you can innovate in one Bitcoin you can innovate in one Bitcoin you can innovate in one direction which is programmability and direction which is programmability and direction which is programmability and that's Ethereum salon and so on. You that's Ethereum salon and so on. You that's Ethereum salon and so on. You innovate in the other direction that's innovate in the other direction that's innovate in the other direction that's privacy and that's Zcash. To get to privacy and that's Zcash. To get to privacy and that's Zcash. To get to private programmability private programmability private programmability is actually stacking those two together is actually stacking those two together is actually stacking those two together and it's actually quite hard. It opens and it's actually quite hard. It opens and it's actually quite hard. It opens up all these attack surfaces and so on. up all these attack surfaces and so on. up all these attack surfaces and so on. So just scale Zcash first and then you So just scale Zcash first and then you So just scale Zcash first and then you know there's Aztec, there's Alo, there's know there's Aztec, there's Alo, there's know there's Aztec, there's Alo, there's all these other you know private smart all these other you know private smart all these other you know private smart contract chains. I wish them the best. I contract chains. I wish them the best. I contract chains. I wish them the best. I want them have a non-zero sum view of want them have a non-zero sum view of want them have a non-zero sum view of the world. They're taking on a more the world. They're taking on a more the world. They're taking on a more complicated problem. complicated problem. complicated problem. In theory, they can just do the same In theory, they can just do the same In theory, they can just do the same thing Zcash is doing, which is private thing Zcash is doing, which is private thing Zcash is doing, which is private transactions. In practice, if you transactions. In practice, if you transactions. In practice, if you remember Facebook in the 2000s, people remember Facebook in the 2000s, people remember Facebook in the 2000s, people said, said, said, why does Twitter exist? Facebook has why does Twitter exist? Facebook has why does Twitter exist? Facebook has status update. Like one feature of status update. Like one feature of status update. Like one feature of Facebook is all of Twitter. Why does Facebook is all of Twitter. Why does Facebook is all of Twitter. Why does Twitter exist? Sometimes that's a good Twitter exist? Sometimes that's a good Twitter exist? Sometimes that's a good argument, by the way. That's why, you argument, by the way. That's why, you argument, by the way. That's why, you know, like Steve Jobs told Drew Houston, know, like Steve Jobs told Drew Houston, know, like Steve Jobs told Drew Houston, Dropbox's just a feature, right? I mean, Dropbox's just a feature, right? I mean, Dropbox's just a feature, right? I mean, Dropbox, it's funny. It's a great Dropbox, it's funny. It's a great Dropbox, it's funny. It's a great company. and so and so forth. But like company. and so and so forth. But like company. and so and so forth. But like if Dropbox had if iCloud was Dropbox, if Dropbox had if iCloud was Dropbox, if Dropbox had if iCloud was Dropbox, it' probably be better. You know, app it' probably be better. You know, app it' probably be better. You know, app like both both would be better off. like both both would be better off. like both both would be better off. iCloud is kind of eh Dropbox is Dropbox iCloud is kind of eh Dropbox is Dropbox iCloud is kind of eh Dropbox is Dropbox doesn't have as much distribution as if doesn't have as much distribution as if doesn't have as much distribution as if it was part of a big operating system it was part of a big operating system it was part of a big operating system kind of bundle. So sometimes people are kind of bundle. So sometimes people are kind of bundle. So sometimes people are half right, half wrong. Dropbox company, half right, half wrong. Dropbox company, half right, half wrong. Dropbox company, but it might have been bigger in terms but it might have been bigger in terms but it might have been bigger in terms of percentage value if if uh if they had of percentage value if if uh if they had of percentage value if if uh if they had been Apple's cloud services basically, been Apple's cloud services basically, been Apple's cloud services basically, right? But okay, point is it's hard to right? But okay, point is it's hard to right? But okay, point is it's hard to say whether it's just a product or a say whether it's just a product or a say whether it's just a product or a feature, but my strong intuition is just feature, but my strong intuition is just feature, but my strong intuition is just like Twitter's simplicity made its own like Twitter's simplicity made its own like Twitter's simplicity made its own thing, right? Simple, scalable, billion thing, right? Simple, scalable, billion thing, right? Simple, scalable, billion person digital private cash has been the person digital private cash has been the person digital private cash has been the dream for 30 years and we're finally dream for 30 years and we're finally dream for 30 years and we're finally there. there. there. So zodal.com, install zotal.com. By the So zodal.com, install zotal.com. By the So zodal.com, install zotal.com. By the way, I'm not a trader. I just don't care way, I'm not a trader. I just don't care way, I'm not a trader. I just don't care about trading. I'm early on platforms about trading. I'm early on platforms about trading. I'm early on platforms and infrastructure. There's things you and infrastructure. There's things you and infrastructure. There's things you have to not care about in order to care have to not care about in order to care have to not care about in order to care about things. You have to not care about about things. You have to not care about about things. You have to not care about things. So very very very few things I things. So very very very few things I things. So very very very few things I talked about. Also Zcash has been around talked about. Also Zcash has been around talked about. Also Zcash has been around for 10 years. Like you know it's also for 10 years. Like you know it's also for 10 years. Like you know it's also even the the the toxic way setup even the the the toxic way setup even the the the toxic way setup ceremony that's gone like that got fixed ceremony that's gone like that got fixed ceremony that's gone like that got fixed cryptographically. cryptographically. cryptographically. So it's unusual that it's been around 10 So it's unusual that it's been around 10 So it's unusual that it's been around 10 years got a security track record. It's years got a security track record. It's years got a security track record. It's got a decentralized base of holders. The got a decentralized base of holders. The got a decentralized base of holders. The cryptography works. cryptography works. cryptography works. >> Love it. That's a a great place to wrap >> Love it. That's a a great place to wrap >> Love it. That's a a great place to wrap a wide-ranging conversation on what's a wide-ranging conversation on what's a wide-ranging conversation on what's happening in AI and crypto. Uh, as happening in AI and crypto. Uh, as happening in AI and crypto. Uh, as always, biology, fantastic conversation. always, biology, fantastic conversation. always, biology, fantastic conversation. Until next time. Until next time. Until next time. >> Yes. And oh, by the way, if you're in >> Yes. And oh, by the way, if you're in >> Yes. And oh, by the way, if you're in Singapore, Malaysia or anywhere, come Singapore, Malaysia or anywhere, come Singapore, Malaysia or anywhere, come visit ns.com and network school and uh visit ns.com and network school and uh visit ns.com and network school and uh we're scaling and uh we'll talk about we're scaling and uh we'll talk about we're scaling and uh we'll talk about that too next time maybe. that too next time maybe. that too next time maybe. >> Yeah, love to see all the all the >> Yeah, love to see all the all the >> Yeah, love to see all the all the progress there. Amazing what you guys progress there. Amazing what you guys progress there. Amazing what you guys are doing. Excited to be involved in in are doing. Excited to be involved in in are doing. Excited to be involved in in a small way and uh yeah, until next a small way and uh yeah, until next a small way and uh yeah, until next time. Okay, thank you.