After 40, Your Feet Predict How Long You’ll Live — Fix This Before It’s Too Late | Courtney Conley

In your brand new book, Walk, Your Life In your brand new book, Walk, Your Life Depends on It, you say that walking is a Depends on It, you say that walking is a Depends on It, you say that walking is a physiological necessity that your body physiological necessity that your body physiological necessity that your body requires for survival. I think many of requires for survival. I think many of requires for survival. I think many of us know that walking is important, us know that walking is important, us know that walking is important, but it's required for our survival. but it's required for our survival. but it's required for our survival. That's quite a bold statement. That's quite a bold statement. That's quite a bold statement. >> It is. It is. When I was thinking about >> It is. It is. When I was thinking about >> It is. It is. When I was thinking about how I wanted to approach this topic, how I wanted to approach this topic, how I wanted to approach this topic, I want people to think of walking as not I want people to think of walking as not I want people to think of walking as not just exercise. just exercise. just exercise. If you think about human biology, If you think about human biology, If you think about human biology, it is built around locomotion. it is built around locomotion. it is built around locomotion. And I didn't say biology is built around And I didn't say biology is built around And I didn't say biology is built around locomotion, human biology. So when you locomotion, human biology. So when you locomotion, human biology. So when you add that word in there, we know that add that word in there, we know that add that word in there, we know that humans are bipeds. humans are bipeds. humans are bipeds. And when you look at what walking And when you look at what walking And when you look at what walking provides, which is this rhythmic low provides, which is this rhythmic low provides, which is this rhythmic low inensity movement, inensity movement, inensity movement, it's that that facilitates every system it's that that facilitates every system it's that that facilitates every system in our body. So our muscularkeeletal in our body. So our muscularkeeletal in our body. So our muscularkeeletal system, our nervous system, our system, our nervous system, our system, our nervous system, our lymphatic system, our endocrine system, lymphatic system, our endocrine system, lymphatic system, our endocrine system, all of those systems all of those systems all of those systems function function function based on the integration of walking. And based on the integration of walking. And based on the integration of walking. And I talk about it in the book um as a I talk about it in the book um as a I talk about it in the book um as a trilogy. trilogy. trilogy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> With breathing and sleeping. >> With breathing and sleeping. >> With breathing and sleeping. And I think when you think of those And I think when you think of those And I think when you think of those three components and one could add three components and one could add three components and one could add eating as well. eating as well. eating as well. >> They all have this symbiotic >> They all have this symbiotic >> They all have this symbiotic relationship. relationship. relationship. So when one suffers, the other two So when one suffers, the other two So when one suffers, the other two suffer. suffer. suffer. >> So if I have a poor night's sleep, for >> So if I have a poor night's sleep, for >> So if I have a poor night's sleep, for example, example, example, my respiration rate could be higher. I my respiration rate could be higher. I my respiration rate could be higher. I could be in a state of more more stress, could be in a state of more more stress, could be in a state of more more stress, increased cortisol. I'm not going to increased cortisol. I'm not going to increased cortisol. I'm not going to want to do a lot of activity because I'm want to do a lot of activity because I'm want to do a lot of activity because I'm tired. So, if you look at that trilogy tired. So, if you look at that trilogy tired. So, if you look at that trilogy of breathing, sleeping, and walking, you of breathing, sleeping, and walking, you of breathing, sleeping, and walking, you can see how they all feed one another. can see how they all feed one another. can see how they all feed one another. And when they're all functioning well, And when they're all functioning well, And when they're all functioning well, we're optimized. we're optimized. we're optimized. >> Yeah. As well as you calling walking >> Yeah. As well as you calling walking >> Yeah. As well as you calling walking this physiological necessity that the this physiological necessity that the this physiological necessity that the body requires for survival. body requires for survival. body requires for survival. That comparison in the book to breathing That comparison in the book to breathing That comparison in the book to breathing and sleeping I thought was brilliant, and sleeping I thought was brilliant, and sleeping I thought was brilliant, very provocative, very provocative, very provocative, but absolutely spoton, but absolutely spoton, but absolutely spoton, you know, and you've detailed a lot of you know, and you've detailed a lot of you know, and you've detailed a lot of this research in your book about what this research in your book about what this research in your book about what more walking does in terms of cancer more walking does in terms of cancer more walking does in terms of cancer risk, dementia risk, all these kind of risk, dementia risk, all these kind of risk, dementia risk, all these kind of things. What's really interesting is you things. What's really interesting is you things. What's really interesting is you could reframe it, couldn't you? Instead could reframe it, couldn't you? Instead could reframe it, couldn't you? Instead of it being that walking more reduces of it being that walking more reduces of it being that walking more reduces your risk of these problems, you could your risk of these problems, you could your risk of these problems, you could almost look at it the other way and go, almost look at it the other way and go, almost look at it the other way and go, "No, we're designed to walk. When we "No, we're designed to walk. When we "No, we're designed to walk. When we don't walk enough, we get all kinds of don't walk enough, we get all kinds of don't walk enough, we get all kinds of problems." problems." problems." >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. In the book, I refer to it as vitamin W. In the book, I refer to it as vitamin W. In the book, I refer to it as vitamin W. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That if we start to view this as an >> That if we start to view this as an >> That if we start to view this as an essential nutrient for our survival, I essential nutrient for our survival, I essential nutrient for our survival, I think we take a completely different think we take a completely different think we take a completely different spin on it. that it's not just exercise, spin on it. that it's not just exercise, spin on it. that it's not just exercise, it's a necessity for our survival. it's a necessity for our survival. it's a necessity for our survival. >> You mentioned a few things earlier. The >> You mentioned a few things earlier. The >> You mentioned a few things earlier. The lymphatic system that gets sort of lymphatic system that gets sort of lymphatic system that gets sort of properly activated when you walk. Um properly activated when you walk. Um properly activated when you walk. Um blood returning from your feet. blood returning from your feet. blood returning from your feet. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Will only happen when you're contracting >> Will only happen when you're contracting >> Will only happen when you're contracting your calf muscle, right? Which happens your calf muscle, right? Which happens your calf muscle, right? Which happens when you walk. when you walk. when you walk. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So everywhere you look, >> So everywhere you look, >> So everywhere you look, >> every system >> every system >> every system >> you need walking. Every if you were to >> you need walking. Every if you were to >> you need walking. Every if you were to take any system in your body take any system in your body take any system in your body cardiovascular muscularkeeletal like I cardiovascular muscularkeeletal like I cardiovascular muscularkeeletal like I said every system is benefited from this said every system is benefited from this said every system is benefited from this rhythmic motion of walking. rhythmic motion of walking. rhythmic motion of walking. >> Is there a perfect or correct way to >> Is there a perfect or correct way to >> Is there a perfect or correct way to walk? walk? walk? >> That's the question I get very often in >> That's the question I get very often in >> That's the question I get very often in my clinic. U patients will actually say my clinic. U patients will actually say my clinic. U patients will actually say to me, I think I forgot how to walk. to me, I think I forgot how to walk. to me, I think I forgot how to walk. >> And it's always very fascinating to me. >> And it's always very fascinating to me. >> And it's always very fascinating to me. Uh I think walking each person has a Uh I think walking each person has a Uh I think walking each person has a unique walking signature if you will unique walking signature if you will unique walking signature if you will because our walking gate can be because our walking gate can be because our walking gate can be influenced by many things. Uh your influenced by many things. Uh your influenced by many things. Uh your environment, past traumas. Uh the other environment, past traumas. Uh the other environment, past traumas. Uh the other example I like to use is you can if example I like to use is you can if example I like to use is you can if someone was going in for a job someone was going in for a job someone was going in for a job interview, for example, when they walk interview, for example, when they walk interview, for example, when they walk out of the room, you can tell if they out of the room, you can tell if they out of the room, you can tell if they got hired or if they didn't. Uh I have a got hired or if they didn't. Uh I have a got hired or if they didn't. Uh I have a 14-year-old daughter. when she walks in 14-year-old daughter. when she walks in 14-year-old daughter. when she walks in from school, I can tell if she had a from school, I can tell if she had a from school, I can tell if she had a good day or a bad day. Um, so when we good day or a bad day. Um, so when we good day or a bad day. Um, so when we look at someone's walking gate, I look at someone's walking gate, I look at someone's walking gate, I appreciate that. I think it's like a appreciate that. I think it's like a appreciate that. I think it's like a window to their nervous systems. And window to their nervous systems. And window to their nervous systems. And with that being said, you want to with that being said, you want to with that being said, you want to respect the uniqueness of someone's respect the uniqueness of someone's respect the uniqueness of someone's walking gate, but at the same time, I walking gate, but at the same time, I walking gate, but at the same time, I think we want to create efficiency. And think we want to create efficiency. And think we want to create efficiency. And that's what I think it's about when I'm that's what I think it's about when I'm that's what I think it's about when I'm working with improving someone's walking working with improving someone's walking working with improving someone's walking gate. How efficient can we make them? gate. How efficient can we make them? gate. How efficient can we make them? Because that will allow them to be on Because that will allow them to be on Because that will allow them to be on their feet longer, go for longer their feet longer, go for longer their feet longer, go for longer distances, and then get all of the distances, and then get all of the distances, and then get all of the benefits that happen when you have benefits that happen when you have benefits that happen when you have sustained walking. sustained walking. sustained walking. >> Yeah. I really like that this idea that >> Yeah. I really like that this idea that >> Yeah. I really like that this idea that we're all different. We've all got this we're all different. We've all got this we're all different. We've all got this unique signature. unique signature. unique signature. As he states in the book, a person's As he states in the book, a person's As he states in the book, a person's walking gate tells a story. Yes. You can walking gate tells a story. Yes. You can walking gate tells a story. Yes. You can tell that someone is happy, sad, tell that someone is happy, sad, tell that someone is happy, sad, confident, scared, in pain, or feeling confident, scared, in pain, or feeling confident, scared, in pain, or feeling like they're on top of the world just by like they're on top of the world just by like they're on top of the world just by watching them walk. watching them walk. watching them walk. >> Isn't that beautiful? >> Isn't that beautiful? >> Isn't that beautiful? >> It's It's gorgeous. >> It's It's gorgeous. >> It's It's gorgeous. >> I know. I love it. >> I know. I love it. >> I know. I love it. >> And I've tried this because I've been >> And I've tried this because I've been >> And I've tried this because I've been tuned into this through my own movement tuned into this through my own movement tuned into this through my own movement coach, Helen, over the past few years. coach, Helen, over the past few years. coach, Helen, over the past few years. And And And what Helen used to say to me is that what Helen used to say to me is that what Helen used to say to me is that and it really reminded me of something and it really reminded me of something and it really reminded me of something in your book is this idea that if if in your book is this idea that if if in your book is this idea that if if she's watching someone run, she's watching someone run, she's watching someone run, it's like does something catch my it's like does something catch my it's like does something catch my attention? attention? attention? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like if it's a if it's a smooth >> Like if it's a if it's a smooth >> Like if it's a if it's a smooth efficient style for that person, nothing efficient style for that person, nothing efficient style for that person, nothing catches her attention. But when catches her attention. But when catches her attention. But when something's not quite I shouldn't say something's not quite I shouldn't say something's not quite I shouldn't say right, if it's not as efficient as it right, if it's not as efficient as it right, if it's not as efficient as it could be, it just catches her. And could be, it just catches her. And could be, it just catches her. And that's kind of the case you've made in that's kind of the case you've made in that's kind of the case you've made in your book as well. You say your book as well. You say your book as well. You say >> we've all got different walking gates, >> we've all got different walking gates, >> we've all got different walking gates, but you can usually tell when but you can usually tell when but you can usually tell when something's like a little bit off, can't something's like a little bit off, can't something's like a little bit off, can't you? you? you? >> Yes. And some examples of that, um, for >> Yes. And some examples of that, um, for >> Yes. And some examples of that, um, for example, if someone were to walk but example, if someone were to walk but example, if someone were to walk but only swing one arm. only swing one arm. only swing one arm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's something that a non-trained >> That's something that a non-trained >> That's something that a non-trained individual can pick up pretty easily. individual can pick up pretty easily. individual can pick up pretty easily. And I'll even video my patients and I'll And I'll even video my patients and I'll And I'll even video my patients and I'll say, "What do you see here?" I'll say, say, "What do you see here?" I'll say, say, "What do you see here?" I'll say, "Geez, I'm not moving my right arm." M "Geez, I'm not moving my right arm." M "Geez, I'm not moving my right arm." M >> it's little things like that. Walking is >> it's little things like that. Walking is >> it's little things like that. Walking is rotation. We take advantage of forward rotation. We take advantage of forward rotation. We take advantage of forward momentum and this rotation that we get momentum and this rotation that we get momentum and this rotation that we get in our bodies. So something as simple as in our bodies. So something as simple as in our bodies. So something as simple as looking at someone and saying, "Hey, looking at someone and saying, "Hey, looking at someone and saying, "Hey, start let's start swinging your other start let's start swinging your other start let's start swinging your other arm." Then it creates this momentum. And arm." Then it creates this momentum. And arm." Then it creates this momentum. And so it's those little things that I think so it's those little things that I think so it's those little things that I think can have a a profound effect on creating can have a a profound effect on creating can have a a profound effect on creating that efficiency. that efficiency. that efficiency. What's going on in the modern world What's going on in the modern world What's going on in the modern world currently whereby something that is so currently whereby something that is so currently whereby something that is so innate to us as humans, the ability to innate to us as humans, the ability to innate to us as humans, the ability to walk and cover large distances on foot, walk and cover large distances on foot, walk and cover large distances on foot, why is it that we need help doing why is it that we need help doing why is it that we need help doing something as basic and fundamental as something as basic and fundamental as something as basic and fundamental as walking? walking? walking? >> Yeah, we don't think about it. I think >> Yeah, we don't think about it. I think >> Yeah, we don't think about it. I think when you start looking at I think people when you start looking at I think people when you start looking at I think people think they might walk a little bit more think they might walk a little bit more think they might walk a little bit more than they do cuz I my one of the than they do cuz I my one of the than they do cuz I my one of the questions I consistently ask my patients questions I consistently ask my patients questions I consistently ask my patients are do you know how many steps you're are do you know how many steps you're are do you know how many steps you're taking a day and then they start looking taking a day and then they start looking taking a day and then they start looking at I'm like well geez at I'm like well geez at I'm like well geez 3,000 and these numbers are pretty low 3,000 and these numbers are pretty low 3,000 and these numbers are pretty low and I ask them why do you think that is and I ask them why do you think that is and I ask them why do you think that is and I think there's several reasons for and I think there's several reasons for and I think there's several reasons for that um time I think Time is a big one. that um time I think Time is a big one. that um time I think Time is a big one. We've we've become very busy and it's We've we've become very busy and it's We've we've become very busy and it's can I fit this in can I fit this in can I fit this in um pain. um pain. um pain. I have a lot of patients with chronic I have a lot of patients with chronic I have a lot of patients with chronic pain and I don't think there's any other pain and I don't think there's any other pain and I don't think there's any other diagnosis in your body that will stop diagnosis in your body that will stop diagnosis in your body that will stop you in your tracks from movement and in you in your tracks from movement and in you in your tracks from movement and in particular walking than when you have particular walking than when you have particular walking than when you have foot pain. foot pain. foot pain. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The numbers of people with foot pain is >> The numbers of people with foot pain is >> The numbers of people with foot pain is very high. very high. very high. One out of three adults over the age of One out of three adults over the age of One out of three adults over the age of 45 will suffer from foot pain at least 45 will suffer from foot pain at least 45 will suffer from foot pain at least one point in their lives. That's a high one point in their lives. That's a high one point in their lives. That's a high number. number. number. >> That's a huge amount. Because of course, >> That's a huge amount. Because of course, >> That's a huge amount. Because of course, when you're in foot pain, you're not when you're in foot pain, you're not when you're in foot pain, you're not going to want to walk on it or go to the going to want to walk on it or go to the going to want to walk on it or go to the shops or you you're going to want to get shops or you you're going to want to get shops or you you're going to want to get off it, aren't you? off it, aren't you? off it, aren't you? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Why Why do you think one in three adults >> Why Why do you think one in three adults >> Why Why do you think one in three adults over the age of 45 have foot pain at over the age of 45 have foot pain at over the age of 45 have foot pain at some point in their lives? I think the some point in their lives? I think the some point in their lives? I think the foot is probably the most neglected area foot is probably the most neglected area foot is probably the most neglected area of our bodies from a rehabilitative of our bodies from a rehabilitative of our bodies from a rehabilitative perspective. If you look at perspective. If you look at perspective. If you look at training every other part of the body, training every other part of the body, training every other part of the body, so for example, we'll use low back pain. so for example, we'll use low back pain. so for example, we'll use low back pain. If someone comes into my office with low If someone comes into my office with low If someone comes into my office with low back pain, we have the discussion of back pain, we have the discussion of back pain, we have the discussion of strength. strength. strength. Do we need to improve strength Do we need to improve strength Do we need to improve strength somewhere? Do we need to create somewhere? Do we need to create somewhere? Do we need to create stability to your system? Do we need to stability to your system? Do we need to stability to your system? Do we need to stretch? Do we need to mobilize? And stretch? Do we need to mobilize? And stretch? Do we need to mobilize? And then we create this program then we create this program then we create this program that involves getting this patient a that involves getting this patient a that involves getting this patient a more resilient body. more resilient body. more resilient body. >> Let's make you stronger. >> Let's make you stronger. >> Let's make you stronger. Um, when someone comes in with foot Um, when someone comes in with foot Um, when someone comes in with foot pain, our education has not gone down pain, our education has not gone down pain, our education has not gone down that road. It has been, well, here's a that road. It has been, well, here's a that road. It has been, well, here's a foot orthotic, foot orthosis. Here is a foot orthotic, foot orthosis. Here is a foot orthotic, foot orthosis. Here is a shoe with more cushion. shoe with more cushion. shoe with more cushion. So instead of taking this proactive So instead of taking this proactive So instead of taking this proactive approach with hey this foot has four approach with hey this foot has four approach with hey this foot has four layers of intrinsic muscles in it layers of intrinsic muscles in it layers of intrinsic muscles in it >> many joints where range of motion can be >> many joints where range of motion can be >> many joints where range of motion can be improved and stabilized improved and stabilized improved and stabilized we should be having that conversation at we should be having that conversation at we should be having that conversation at our feet not let me see what I can do so our feet not let me see what I can do so our feet not let me see what I can do so we brace that movement or inhibit that we brace that movement or inhibit that we brace that movement or inhibit that movement and that's where I think we movement and that's where I think we movement and that's where I think we really have an opportunity here. really have an opportunity here. really have an opportunity here. Yeah, it's kind of interesting, isn't Yeah, it's kind of interesting, isn't Yeah, it's kind of interesting, isn't it? As you said, that's a that's a it? As you said, that's a that's a it? As you said, that's a that's a really great comparison with back pain. really great comparison with back pain. really great comparison with back pain. What I'm interested in as well as that What I'm interested in as well as that What I'm interested in as well as that is is is the foot is how we as humans the foot is how we as humans the foot is how we as humans move around in the world. It doesn't move around in the world. It doesn't move around in the world. It doesn't make sense to me on an evolutionary or make sense to me on an evolutionary or make sense to me on an evolutionary or through an evolutionary lens through an evolutionary lens through an evolutionary lens that a third of us would have foot pain. that a third of us would have foot pain. that a third of us would have foot pain. Do you know what I mean? It's like, Do you know what I mean? It's like, Do you know what I mean? It's like, well, how could that have how could our well, how could that have how could our well, how could that have how could our ancestors have survived ancestors have survived ancestors have survived or it would have been harder for them to or it would have been harder for them to or it would have been harder for them to survive if they had significant degrees survive if they had significant degrees survive if they had significant degrees of foot pain? of foot pain? of foot pain? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Which then meant they wouldn't go out >> Which then meant they wouldn't go out >> Which then meant they wouldn't go out and hunt or, and hunt or, and hunt or, you know, dig for tubers or whatever you know, dig for tubers or whatever you know, dig for tubers or whatever whatever it is they were doing. What do whatever it is they were doing. What do whatever it is they were doing. What do you think is going on? Like, is it just you think is going on? Like, is it just you think is going on? Like, is it just our modern lives that are causing these our modern lives that are causing these our modern lives that are causing these foot pain or an foot pain or an foot pain or an >> evolutionary evolutionary mismatch? >> evolutionary evolutionary mismatch? >> evolutionary evolutionary mismatch? So we have evolved. Our foot has evolved So we have evolved. Our foot has evolved So we have evolved. Our foot has evolved to handle loads. to handle loads. to handle loads. >> When we're walking, our foot takes two >> When we're walking, our foot takes two >> When we're walking, our foot takes two to three times our body weight. to three times our body weight. to three times our body weight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It does not need arch support. It does >> It does not need arch support. It does >> It does not need arch support. It does not need anything when it is functioning not need anything when it is functioning not need anything when it is functioning as it was designed because it is very as it was designed because it is very as it was designed because it is very strong and in is very capable of strong and in is very capable of strong and in is very capable of handling these loads. So what happened? handling these loads. So what happened? handling these loads. So what happened? Why do so many people suffer from foot Why do so many people suffer from foot Why do so many people suffer from foot pain pain pain and why do we see all of these and why do we see all of these and why do we see all of these diagnosis? And I think a lot of that has diagnosis? And I think a lot of that has diagnosis? And I think a lot of that has been um a lot of that we can see with been um a lot of that we can see with been um a lot of that we can see with the development of footwear and footwear the development of footwear and footwear the development of footwear and footwear was designed for protection. That was was designed for protection. That was was designed for protection. That was the extent of it. And then as you see the extent of it. And then as you see the extent of it. And then as you see with history, what started to happen was with history, what started to happen was with history, what started to happen was fashion kind of started trumping fashion kind of started trumping fashion kind of started trumping function. And instead of footwear function. And instead of footwear function. And instead of footwear respecting the anatomy of the foot, it respecting the anatomy of the foot, it respecting the anatomy of the foot, it did quite the opposite. did quite the opposite. did quite the opposite. >> Yeah. and that's a problem. And then you >> Yeah. and that's a problem. And then you >> Yeah. and that's a problem. And then you take footwear that doesn't allow the take footwear that doesn't allow the take footwear that doesn't allow the foot to function. You take um foot to function. You take um foot to function. You take um not being able or being aware that this not being able or being aware that this not being able or being aware that this part of our body can be strengthened and part of our body can be strengthened and part of our body can be strengthened and mobilized and you kind of marry those mobilized and you kind of marry those mobilized and you kind of marry those two and we have an even bigger problem. two and we have an even bigger problem. two and we have an even bigger problem. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What I was thinking about when you were What I was thinking about when you were What I was thinking about when you were just talking there, Courtney, is just talking there, Courtney, is just talking there, Courtney, is I get this, right? Because I had a I get this, right? Because I had a I get this, right? Because I had a problem problem problem and I've been wearing barefoot shoes. and I've been wearing barefoot shoes. and I've been wearing barefoot shoes. I've been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes I've been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes I've been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes now for I think 12 plus years almost now for I think 12 plus years almost now for I think 12 plus years almost exclusively apart from one wedding that exclusively apart from one wedding that exclusively apart from one wedding that I went to maybe seven years ago when I I went to maybe seven years ago when I I went to maybe seven years ago when I wore these Italian dress shoes that I wore these Italian dress shoes that I wore these Italian dress shoes that I got married in. And I thought, how the got married in. And I thought, how the got married in. And I thought, how the hell did I ever do this? It was horrid. hell did I ever do this? It was horrid. hell did I ever do this? It was horrid. I felt so disconnected from the ground. I felt so disconnected from the ground. I felt so disconnected from the ground. I thought I thought I thought >> I I felt like the front of my feet were >> I I felt like the front of my feet were >> I I felt like the front of my feet were almost squeezed. I would have been almost squeezed. I would have been almost squeezed. I would have been wearing this that stuff for years and I wearing this that stuff for years and I wearing this that stuff for years and I didn't realize, didn't realize, didn't realize, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But I meet so many people around when I >> But I meet so many people around when I >> But I meet so many people around when I who listen to this podcast and they'll who listen to this podcast and they'll who listen to this podcast and they'll tell me all the things that they've tell me all the things that they've tell me all the things that they've changed from listening, which is changed from listening, which is changed from listening, which is wonderful. Lots of people will tell me wonderful. Lots of people will tell me wonderful. Lots of people will tell me how they've started wearing barefoot how they've started wearing barefoot how they've started wearing barefoot shoes and and have told me and my back shoes and and have told me and my back shoes and and have told me and my back pain's gone and my knee pain's gone and pain's gone and my knee pain's gone and pain's gone and my knee pain's gone and my hip pain's gone, whatever it might my hip pain's gone, whatever it might my hip pain's gone, whatever it might be. But there's a lot of people who I be. But there's a lot of people who I be. But there's a lot of people who I meet who listen to this podcast who meet who listen to this podcast who meet who listen to this podcast who still haven't changed their footwear, still haven't changed their footwear, still haven't changed their footwear, which I understand. But but the point which I understand. But but the point which I understand. But but the point I'm trying to make is why is it such a I'm trying to make is why is it such a I'm trying to make is why is it such a hard cell for people to hard cell for people to hard cell for people to change or think about changing their change or think about changing their change or think about changing their footwear? footwear? footwear? >> It's fashion. It's society. We have for >> It's fashion. It's society. We have for >> It's fashion. It's society. We have for many many decades that's what we have many many decades that's what we have many many decades that's what we have been trained to think is beautiful and been trained to think is beautiful and been trained to think is beautiful and to think is you know this is what we to think is you know this is what we to think is you know this is what we should be wearing on our feet and what should be wearing on our feet and what should be wearing on our feet and what you see is not what you get. The the you see is not what you get. The the you see is not what you get. The the footwear that is most of the footwear footwear that is most of the footwear footwear that is most of the footwear that is designed today does not respect that is designed today does not respect that is designed today does not respect the anatomy of the foot. You know, I've the anatomy of the foot. You know, I've the anatomy of the foot. You know, I've talked to several um people that have talked to several um people that have talked to several um people that have been in the shoe industry, and it's been in the shoe industry, and it's been in the shoe industry, and it's really interesting to me that a lot of really interesting to me that a lot of really interesting to me that a lot of the shoe designers don't have knowledge the shoe designers don't have knowledge the shoe designers don't have knowledge of how the foot functions, which is wild of how the foot functions, which is wild of how the foot functions, which is wild to me. You would think that that would to me. You would think that that would to me. You would think that that would be on their resume. I have a very good be on their resume. I have a very good be on their resume. I have a very good understanding of the foot anatomy, thus understanding of the foot anatomy, thus understanding of the foot anatomy, thus I can create a shoe, I can create a shoe, I can create a shoe, and that's not the case. The other thing and that's not the case. The other thing and that's not the case. The other thing when you also look at not only when you also look at not only when you also look at not only fashionable footwear like dress footwear fashionable footwear like dress footwear fashionable footwear like dress footwear but when you look at the industry of but when you look at the industry of but when you look at the industry of what's happening with trainers and what's happening with trainers and what's happening with trainers and running shoes for example running shoes for example running shoes for example shoe companies respond to what people shoe companies respond to what people shoe companies respond to what people need and what they want. need and what they want. need and what they want. So a lot of the things that I will hear So a lot of the things that I will hear So a lot of the things that I will hear in my clinic in my clinic in my clinic it's hard for me to walk. It's hard for it's hard for me to walk. It's hard for it's hard for me to walk. It's hard for me to push off. Um, my father just had me to push off. Um, my father just had me to push off. Um, my father just had this conversation with me. He said, "You this conversation with me. He said, "You this conversation with me. He said, "You know, Courtney, I was walking around the know, Courtney, I was walking around the know, Courtney, I was walking around the mall and it was really difficult. I feel mall and it was really difficult. I feel mall and it was really difficult. I feel like I couldn't push through my foot. like I couldn't push through my foot. like I couldn't push through my foot. He's going to be 80 this year." He's going to be 80 this year." He's going to be 80 this year." Now, instead of having the conversation Now, instead of having the conversation Now, instead of having the conversation of, "Hey, Dad, if you can't push through of, "Hey, Dad, if you can't push through of, "Hey, Dad, if you can't push through your foot, these are the exercises we're your foot, these are the exercises we're your foot, these are the exercises we're going to do. We're going to work on your going to do. We're going to work on your going to do. We're going to work on your calf strength. We're going to work on calf strength. We're going to work on calf strength. We're going to work on your foot strength so that you can start your foot strength so that you can start your foot strength so that you can start to regain your power when you walk. to regain your power when you walk. to regain your power when you walk. The shoe company says, "Well, he's The shoe company says, "Well, he's The shoe company says, "Well, he's having difficulty pushing through his having difficulty pushing through his having difficulty pushing through his foot, so let's just create a shoe that foot, so let's just create a shoe that foot, so let's just create a shoe that rockers him forward." rockers him forward." rockers him forward." >> So, we make it easier for him. >> So, we make it easier for him. >> So, we make it easier for him. >> Correct. So, now this shoe looks like a >> Correct. So, now this shoe looks like a >> Correct. So, now this shoe looks like a boat. So, he puts this shoe on and he boat. So, he puts this shoe on and he boat. So, he puts this shoe on and he says, "Courtney, this is great. I can says, "Courtney, this is great. I can says, "Courtney, this is great. I can now roll through my foot. Why would my now roll through my foot. Why would my now roll through my foot. Why would my father who doesn't have this type of father who doesn't have this type of father who doesn't have this type of knowledge think anything other than this knowledge think anything other than this knowledge think anything other than this must be a great idea? And where I must be a great idea? And where I must be a great idea? And where I challenge him is that if you don't use challenge him is that if you don't use challenge him is that if you don't use it, you're going to lose it. So that so it, you're going to lose it. So that so it, you're going to lose it. So that so so the rocker shoe so the rocker shoe so the rocker shoe it does help it does help it does help in the short term. Is that is that fair in the short term. Is that is that fair in the short term. Is that is that fair to say? is is at least his p you know to say? is is at least his p you know to say? is is at least his p you know his perception of this problem where he his perception of this problem where he his perception of this problem where he can't push off is initially getting can't push off is initially getting can't push off is initially getting better. better. better. The problem is there's an unintended The problem is there's an unintended The problem is there's an unintended consequence which is his feet is are consequence which is his feet is are consequence which is his feet is are going to get even weaker cuz they're not going to get even weaker cuz they're not going to get even weaker cuz they're not being used. being used. being used. >> It's doing more of the work for him. >> It's doing more of the work for him. >> It's doing more of the work for him. >> The shoe's doing the work. >> The shoe's doing the work. >> The shoe's doing the work. >> Yes. And that shoe can be beneficial for >> Yes. And that shoe can be beneficial for >> Yes. And that shoe can be beneficial for someone who has for example a fusion of someone who has for example a fusion of someone who has for example a fusion of their big toe. their big toe. their big toe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or some type of you know surgical >> Or some type of you know surgical >> Or some type of you know surgical intervention, intervention, intervention, but outside of that, your foot is very but outside of that, your foot is very but outside of that, your foot is very capable of being retrained. Your capable of being retrained. Your capable of being retrained. Your strength is very capable of improving. strength is very capable of improving. strength is very capable of improving. And those are the conversations we need And those are the conversations we need And those are the conversations we need to be having because because I don't to be having because because I don't to be having because because I don't want my dad walking around not having want my dad walking around not having want my dad walking around not having the strength and power to be able to the strength and power to be able to the strength and power to be able to propel him forward. propel him forward. propel him forward. Courtney, make the case to someone who's Courtney, make the case to someone who's Courtney, make the case to someone who's listening to this who listening to this who listening to this who doesn't have any foot pain. You know, doesn't have any foot pain. You know, doesn't have any foot pain. You know, pain is a it can be a very powerful pain is a it can be a very powerful pain is a it can be a very powerful motivator to do things, right? Cuz if motivator to do things, right? Cuz if motivator to do things, right? Cuz if you got pain, you want to be out of you got pain, you want to be out of you got pain, you want to be out of pain. pain. pain. >> But if someone's listening to this and >> But if someone's listening to this and >> But if someone's listening to this and they're not in any pain, they're not in any pain, they're not in any pain, >> and they've been wearing thick cushioned >> and they've been wearing thick cushioned >> and they've been wearing thick cushioned shoes their entire life and let's say, I shoes their entire life and let's say, I shoes their entire life and let's say, I don't know, they're in their 40s and don't know, they're in their 40s and don't know, they're in their 40s and they're functional. Let's say it's a they're functional. Let's say it's a they're functional. Let's say it's a woman, they wear high heels when they go woman, they wear high heels when they go woman, they wear high heels when they go out. Maybe they wear high heels for work out. Maybe they wear high heels for work out. Maybe they wear high heels for work and they're not experiencing pain. and they're not experiencing pain. and they're not experiencing pain. How do you convince or inspire people How do you convince or inspire people How do you convince or inspire people who are not in foot pain to focus on who are not in foot pain to focus on who are not in foot pain to focus on their foot health? their foot health? their foot health? >> This is where I really um get excited >> This is where I really um get excited >> This is where I really um get excited about this conversation because I think about this conversation because I think about this conversation because I think this is where healthc care is going and this is where healthc care is going and this is where healthc care is going and hopefully people are being a more that hopefully people are being a more that hopefully people are being a more that we more aware that we should be we more aware that we should be we more aware that we should be proactive instead of reactive with our proactive instead of reactive with our proactive instead of reactive with our health. health. health. um instead of waiting until there's a um instead of waiting until there's a um instead of waiting until there's a problem problem problem because often times by the time there's because often times by the time there's because often times by the time there's a problem and you're experiencing pain a problem and you're experiencing pain a problem and you're experiencing pain at the foot this is has been there it's at the foot this is has been there it's at the foot this is has been there it's been building there's been problems for been building there's been problems for been building there's been problems for a long period of time and now movement a long period of time and now movement a long period of time and now movement is deterred so I always like to have the is deterred so I always like to have the is deterred so I always like to have the conversation of being proactive with conversation of being proactive with conversation of being proactive with these things I think the other beautiful these things I think the other beautiful these things I think the other beautiful thing about the foot is it's the only thing about the foot is it's the only thing about the foot is it's the only place in the human body where you can place in the human body where you can place in the human body where you can start to see aarent loads or changes. So start to see aarent loads or changes. So start to see aarent loads or changes. So what I mean by that is if you were what I mean by that is if you were what I mean by that is if you were wanting to I had knee pain, you have to wanting to I had knee pain, you have to wanting to I had knee pain, you have to take an X-ray and or an MRI, is there take an X-ray and or an MRI, is there take an X-ray and or an MRI, is there arthritis? Is there some type of tear? arthritis? Is there some type of tear? arthritis? Is there some type of tear? But at the foot, But at the foot, But at the foot, if you see a bunion, regardless if it's if you see a bunion, regardless if it's if you see a bunion, regardless if it's painful or not, if you see hammer toes, painful or not, if you see hammer toes, painful or not, if you see hammer toes, if your toes are more narrow, so the if your toes are more narrow, so the if your toes are more narrow, so the widest part of the foot should be the widest part of the foot should be the widest part of the foot should be the toes. toes. toes. Pay. Yep. Everybody starts looking Pay. Yep. Everybody starts looking Pay. Yep. Everybody starts looking >> I'm looking at me now. I think I'm okay, >> I'm looking at me now. I think I'm okay, >> I'm looking at me now. I think I'm okay, but you can tell me later. but you can tell me later. but you can tell me later. So if you see these things, we know that So if you see these things, we know that So if you see these things, we know that changes in the foot, bunyions, hammer changes in the foot, bunyions, hammer changes in the foot, bunyions, hammer toes increase our risks of falls. It toes increase our risks of falls. It toes increase our risks of falls. It changes the stability of the forefoot. changes the stability of the forefoot. changes the stability of the forefoot. It changes the strength of the foot. So It changes the strength of the foot. So It changes the strength of the foot. So that's what I encourage people to do. that's what I encourage people to do. that's what I encourage people to do. Take a look at your foot. Take a look at your foot. Take a look at your foot. Is there are there things that shouldn't Is there are there things that shouldn't Is there are there things that shouldn't be there? Can you do exercises like be there? Can you do exercises like be there? Can you do exercises like lifting your big toe, having toe lifting your big toe, having toe lifting your big toe, having toe dexterity? These are all things that can dexterity? These are all things that can dexterity? These are all things that can be very good indicators of good foot be very good indicators of good foot be very good indicators of good foot health which will also have implications health which will also have implications health which will also have implications up the kinetic chain. up the kinetic chain. up the kinetic chain. >> Yeah, there's there's a whole section in >> Yeah, there's there's a whole section in >> Yeah, there's there's a whole section in the second half of your book where you the second half of your book where you the second half of your book where you go through these go through these go through these exercises, these self assessments that exercises, these self assessments that exercises, these self assessments that we can all do. And you know, it's we can all do. And you know, it's we can all do. And you know, it's interesting. I've been paying attention interesting. I've been paying attention interesting. I've been paying attention to my foot health, I would say, for a to my foot health, I would say, for a to my foot health, I would say, for a good 12 years now. good 12 years now. good 12 years now. And And And this morning as I was finishing reading this morning as I was finishing reading this morning as I was finishing reading off the book, off the book, off the book, there was an exercise. I think it was there was an exercise. I think it was there was an exercise. I think it was calf raise, single leg calf raises. But calf raise, single leg calf raises. But calf raise, single leg calf raises. But in essence, it was great because you put in essence, it was great because you put in essence, it was great because you put some songs in there which have a 60 some songs in there which have a 60 some songs in there which have a 60 beats per minute cadence. And the one I beats per minute cadence. And the one I beats per minute cadence. And the one I chose cuz I love the song was landslide chose cuz I love the song was landslide chose cuz I love the song was landslide by Mac. Put it on, put my stopwatch on by Mac. Put it on, put my stopwatch on by Mac. Put it on, put my stopwatch on >> and tried to see how many I could do on >> and tried to see how many I could do on >> and tried to see how many I could do on the beat basically. the beat basically. the beat basically. And I was, you know, as I said to you And I was, you know, as I said to you And I was, you know, as I said to you before, I had just come back literally before, I had just come back literally before, I had just come back literally from four days skiing and it was, you from four days skiing and it was, you from four days skiing and it was, you know, difficult, steep, off-piece know, difficult, steep, off-piece know, difficult, steep, off-piece terrain and my legs are crushed. But terrain and my legs are crushed. But terrain and my legs are crushed. But still, I thought I'd be okay. But I I still, I thought I'd be okay. But I I still, I thought I'd be okay. But I I think I only managed 24 in a minute. think I only managed 24 in a minute. think I only managed 24 in a minute. And I was like, that's less than the And I was like, that's less than the And I was like, that's less than the average that you would expect at my age. average that you would expect at my age. average that you would expect at my age. I thought, what the hell? Like I was I thought, what the hell? Like I was I thought, what the hell? Like I was really shocked to see that. Now, yes, really shocked to see that. Now, yes, really shocked to see that. Now, yes, could could fatigue from the last few could could fatigue from the last few could could fatigue from the last few days be playing a role? Maybe. But I days be playing a role? Maybe. But I days be playing a role? Maybe. But I think that's going to be so useful for think that's going to be so useful for think that's going to be so useful for people to just assess where they are. people to just assess where they are. people to just assess where they are. >> I love that chart. It's a research that >> I love that chart. It's a research that >> I love that chart. It's a research that looked at how many single leg calf looked at how many single leg calf looked at how many single leg calf raises one should be able to do per raises one should be able to do per raises one should be able to do per decade. decade. decade. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it is one of the assessments I do >> And it is one of the assessments I do >> And it is one of the assessments I do with all of my patients and I get very with all of my patients and I get very with all of my patients and I get very picky not only about can they do it, but picky not only about can they do it, but picky not only about can they do it, but can they do it on the beat? What does can they do it on the beat? What does can they do it on the beat? What does the height of the calf raise look like? the height of the calf raise look like? the height of the calf raise look like? Are they able to push through their big Are they able to push through their big Are they able to push through their big toe or they kind of look like they're toe or they kind of look like they're toe or they kind of look like they're gonna sprain their ankle? There's a lot gonna sprain their ankle? There's a lot gonna sprain their ankle? There's a lot of information that you can get from of information that you can get from of information that you can get from watching someone do a calf raise. Uh, watching someone do a calf raise. Uh, watching someone do a calf raise. Uh, and unfortunately, the majority of my and unfortunately, the majority of my and unfortunately, the majority of my patients when I pull out that chart sit patients when I pull out that chart sit patients when I pull out that chart sit well below what they should be able to well below what they should be able to well below what they should be able to do. do. do. >> You say majority of your patients as >> You say majority of your patients as >> You say majority of your patients as well as Joe Public, you deal with a lot well as Joe Public, you deal with a lot well as Joe Public, you deal with a lot of elite athletes. Do you also see elite of elite athletes. Do you also see elite of elite athletes. Do you also see elite athletes athletes athletes fail or not do so well on these tests? fail or not do so well on these tests? fail or not do so well on these tests? >> Oh yes. This is what the elite athlete >> Oh yes. This is what the elite athlete >> Oh yes. This is what the elite athlete conversation I think is so fascinating conversation I think is so fascinating conversation I think is so fascinating to me. And as a a good friend of mine, to me. And as a a good friend of mine, to me. And as a a good friend of mine, Jada Cherry, he always says this. We are Jada Cherry, he always says this. We are Jada Cherry, he always says this. We are building jet engines of bodies. So we're building jet engines of bodies. So we're building jet engines of bodies. So we're getting stronger. We're getting faster. getting stronger. We're getting faster. getting stronger. We're getting faster. We're lifting more weights. We're We're lifting more weights. We're We're lifting more weights. We're training power on paper airplanes of training power on paper airplanes of training power on paper airplanes of feet. feet. feet. >> Yeah. And that I think is so very >> Yeah. And that I think is so very >> Yeah. And that I think is so very important because our feet take on the important because our feet take on the important because our feet take on the loads of our body. So we want to get loads of our body. So we want to get loads of our body. So we want to get faster. We want to get stronger. You faster. We want to get stronger. You faster. We want to get stronger. You have to pay attention to that strength have to pay attention to that strength have to pay attention to that strength below the knee. And so when I have below the knee. And so when I have below the knee. And so when I have worked with players in the NFL and all worked with players in the NFL and all worked with players in the NFL and all over these professional sports, I always over these professional sports, I always over these professional sports, I always look at these assessments and I'm look at these assessments and I'm look at these assessments and I'm sitting here going, "These are the sitting here going, "These are the sitting here going, "These are the elite, the top of the top, and they're elite, the top of the top, and they're elite, the top of the top, and they're using their bodies very well without using their bodies very well without using their bodies very well without using the third that's producing the using the third that's producing the using the third that's producing the most power and speed and agility." most power and speed and agility." most power and speed and agility." >> So, you're probably thinking, "You're >> So, you're probably thinking, "You're >> So, you're probably thinking, "You're doing this well." doing this well." doing this well." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you're not looking after your feet. >> And you're not looking after your feet. >> And you're not looking after your feet. If we could just do 20 minutes a day on If we could just do 20 minutes a day on If we could just do 20 minutes a day on your feet. your feet. your feet. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> You could unlock all kinds of potential. >> You could unlock all kinds of potential. >> You could unlock all kinds of potential. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I guess we're in a generation now >> And I guess we're in a generation now >> And I guess we're in a generation now because one of my favorite bits in the because one of my favorite bits in the because one of my favorite bits in the book is when you talk about how book is when you talk about how book is when you talk about how footwear changed maybe hundred years footwear changed maybe hundred years footwear changed maybe hundred years ago. Was it Phil Hoff? Yes. Dr. Hoffman. ago. Was it Phil Hoff? Yes. Dr. Hoffman. ago. Was it Phil Hoff? Yes. Dr. Hoffman. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Dr. Hoffman. Yeah. And how he was sort >> Dr. Hoffman. Yeah. And how he was sort >> Dr. Hoffman. Yeah. And how he was sort of of of >> raising the flag back then saying, >> raising the flag back then saying, >> raising the flag back then saying, >> "Hey, listen. This is going to cause a >> "Hey, listen. This is going to cause a >> "Hey, listen. This is going to cause a problem." But a lot of the top athletes problem." But a lot of the top athletes problem." But a lot of the top athletes now have grown up, of course, with, you now have grown up, of course, with, you now have grown up, of course, with, you know, poor footwear. Yeah. You know, know, poor footwear. Yeah. You know, know, poor footwear. Yeah. You know, overly cushioned, uh, you know, maybe overly cushioned, uh, you know, maybe overly cushioned, uh, you know, maybe pronation support, heel lifts, all this pronation support, heel lifts, all this pronation support, heel lifts, all this kind of stuff. kind of stuff. kind of stuff. >> And what's also really interesting is >> And what's also really interesting is >> And what's also really interesting is I've had the privilege of talking to I've had the privilege of talking to I've had the privilege of talking to Elliot Kipchigi twice on this show. Elliot Kipchigi twice on this show. Elliot Kipchigi twice on this show. >> Um, you know, the guy who's regarded as >> Um, you know, the guy who's regarded as >> Um, you know, the guy who's regarded as one of the fastest marathon runners of one of the fastest marathon runners of one of the fastest marathon runners of all time. all time. all time. And I know he wears the um you know the And I know he wears the um you know the And I know he wears the um you know the modern super shoe now for running modern super shoe now for running modern super shoe now for running >> but actually when he was growing up and >> but actually when he was growing up and >> but actually when he was growing up and training you know it was a lot of training you know it was a lot of training you know it was a lot of barefoot it was minimal footwear. So barefoot it was minimal footwear. So barefoot it was minimal footwear. So probably at the formative years of his probably at the formative years of his probably at the formative years of his life life life >> he probably was living a lifestyle that >> he probably was living a lifestyle that >> he probably was living a lifestyle that grew strong functional wide feet. Do you grew strong functional wide feet. Do you grew strong functional wide feet. Do you know what I mean? know what I mean? know what I mean? And I think when you look at his running And I think when you look at his running And I think when you look at his running gate, he is an elite elite runner. It's gate, he is an elite elite runner. It's gate, he is an elite elite runner. It's a beautiful beautiful running gate. a beautiful beautiful running gate. a beautiful beautiful running gate. >> And I think we need to pay attention to >> And I think we need to pay attention to >> And I think we need to pay attention to that. The the shoe in that case is icing that. The the shoe in that case is icing that. The the shoe in that case is icing on the cake on the cake on the cake >> because he has these beautiful >> because he has these beautiful >> because he has these beautiful mechanics. When you take most runners mechanics. When you take most runners mechanics. When you take most runners and you know recreational runners who and you know recreational runners who and you know recreational runners who don't have his speed or there's his don't have his speed or there's his don't have his speed or there's his grace, if you will, that's an entirely grace, if you will, that's an entirely grace, if you will, that's an entirely different conversation when they're different conversation when they're different conversation when they're wearing a shoe like that. And I do think wearing a shoe like that. And I do think wearing a shoe like that. And I do think that when growing up and you have your that when growing up and you have your that when growing up and you have your foot on the ground and you're running foot on the ground and you're running foot on the ground and you're running and you barefoot, you start to adopt a and you barefoot, you start to adopt a and you barefoot, you start to adopt a different running gate. And I think different running gate. And I think different running gate. And I think that's important to consider. Yeah, it's that's important to consider. Yeah, it's that's important to consider. Yeah, it's a bit like um a bit like um a bit like um away from sort of physical health and away from sort of physical health and away from sort of physical health and foot health, we know foot health, we know foot health, we know >> for our emotional well-being >> for our emotional well-being >> for our emotional well-being later on in life, our early childhood later on in life, our early childhood later on in life, our early childhood years are really important. years are really important. years are really important. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. What are the messages we get when >> Right. What are the messages we get when >> Right. What are the messages we get when we're young kids? You know, what are our we're young kids? You know, what are our we're young kids? You know, what are our attachment bonds like with our adult attachment bonds like with our adult attachment bonds like with our adult caregivers? maybe your parents if you're caregivers? maybe your parents if you're caregivers? maybe your parents if you're you know you know you know >> or whoever is in your life we know that >> or whoever is in your life we know that >> or whoever is in your life we know that that can have implications when you're that can have implications when you're that can have implications when you're 30 40 50 and I'm kind of seeing a 30 40 50 and I'm kind of seeing a 30 40 50 and I'm kind of seeing a similar pattern with you know our feet similar pattern with you know our feet similar pattern with you know our feet and this kind of foundation upon which and this kind of foundation upon which and this kind of foundation upon which we interact with the ground we interact with the ground we interact with the ground >> I wonder if you know Kipi was the >> I wonder if you know Kipi was the >> I wonder if you know Kipi was the example I just used now but perhaps if example I just used now but perhaps if example I just used now but perhaps if we as a society really focus on the we as a society really focus on the we as a society really focus on the first 15 years of life and said right first 15 years of life and said right first 15 years of life and said right for our children we want make sure that for our children we want make sure that for our children we want make sure that we teach them about good foot health. We we teach them about good foot health. We we teach them about good foot health. We put them in the right shoes, maybe not put them in the right shoes, maybe not put them in the right shoes, maybe not overly cushion them or whatever. Maybe overly cushion them or whatever. Maybe overly cushion them or whatever. Maybe they'll build such a strong foundation they'll build such a strong foundation they'll build such a strong foundation that I'm not saying they can get away that I'm not saying they can get away that I'm not saying they can get away with poor shoes later, but it probably with poor shoes later, but it probably with poor shoes later, but it probably insulates them somewhat later. Would you insulates them somewhat later. Would you insulates them somewhat later. Would you agree with that? agree with that? agree with that? >> I think that's our biggest opportunity >> I think that's our biggest opportunity >> I think that's our biggest opportunity >> really >> really >> really >> is with the children. >> is with the children. >> is with the children. >> So, what would you ideally do for a >> So, what would you ideally do for a >> So, what would you ideally do for a child in terms of footwear? If you think child in terms of footwear? If you think child in terms of footwear? If you think of the foot as a sensory organ, if you of the foot as a sensory organ, if you of the foot as a sensory organ, if you will, because there are thousands and will, because there are thousands and will, because there are thousands and thousands of receptors on the bottoms of thousands of receptors on the bottoms of thousands of receptors on the bottoms of our feet, the same amount of real estate our feet, the same amount of real estate our feet, the same amount of real estate as the hands and the and the lips in the as the hands and the and the lips in the as the hands and the and the lips in the brain. So, these are sensory um brain. So, these are sensory um brain. So, these are sensory um powerhouses, if you will, that are powerhouses, if you will, that are powerhouses, if you will, that are gathering information from our gathering information from our gathering information from our environment in telling us how to environment in telling us how to environment in telling us how to improve, how to improve our motor improve, how to improve our motor improve, how to improve our motor outputs, how to move. outputs, how to move. outputs, how to move. So with kids, their little nervous So with kids, their little nervous So with kids, their little nervous systems are developing. systems are developing. systems are developing. So when their foot is on the ground and So when their foot is on the ground and So when their foot is on the ground and they're gathering all of the sensory they're gathering all of the sensory they're gathering all of the sensory information, whether they're walking on information, whether they're walking on information, whether they're walking on grass or sand or all different types of grass or sand or all different types of grass or sand or all different types of u materials, their brains are u materials, their brains are u materials, their brains are developing, their foot is developing. developing, their foot is developing. developing, their foot is developing. And so when we interfere with that, And so when we interfere with that, And so when we interfere with that, if you watch a a baby crawl that has a if you watch a a baby crawl that has a if you watch a a baby crawl that has a very stiff shoe on, for example, very stiff shoe on, for example, very stiff shoe on, for example, their foot their foot's range of motion their foot their foot's range of motion their foot their foot's range of motion is restricted. If I had a very rigid is restricted. If I had a very rigid is restricted. If I had a very rigid shoe on and I'm crawling, I can't go shoe on and I'm crawling, I can't go shoe on and I'm crawling, I can't go into plantar flexion. You see? So into plantar flexion. You see? So into plantar flexion. You see? So >> it's so obvious when you for people >> it's so obvious when you for people >> it's so obvious when you for people listening, Courtney's got up at the listening, Courtney's got up at the listening, Courtney's got up at the moment a um a model of the human foot. moment a um a model of the human foot. moment a um a model of the human foot. And you just see how much complexity is And you just see how much complexity is And you just see how much complexity is there and how much potential movement is there and how much potential movement is there and how much potential movement is there. You think, yeah, of course, if a there. You think, yeah, of course, if a there. You think, yeah, of course, if a baby is crawling with a stiff shoe on, baby is crawling with a stiff shoe on, baby is crawling with a stiff shoe on, it's going to lock down a lot of those it's going to lock down a lot of those it's going to lock down a lot of those joints. So, there will be a joints. So, there will be a joints. So, there will be a compensation. compensation. compensation. >> Yes. And if you look at any baby on the >> Yes. And if you look at any baby on the >> Yes. And if you look at any baby on the planet, the first thing they do is take planet, the first thing they do is take planet, the first thing they do is take their shoes off. They take their shoes their shoes off. They take their shoes their shoes off. They take their shoes off, they take their socks off. They off, they take their socks off. They off, they take their socks off. They want their foot to gather information. want their foot to gather information. want their foot to gather information. And I think that's so important. As that And I think that's so important. As that And I think that's so important. As that foot is developing, six, seven, eight, foot is developing, six, seven, eight, foot is developing, six, seven, eight, nine years old, the foot needs to feel. nine years old, the foot needs to feel. nine years old, the foot needs to feel. >> So for a parent listening to this, >> So for a parent listening to this, >> So for a parent listening to this, right, because we need to, and we will right, because we need to, and we will right, because we need to, and we will address at some point for people who address at some point for people who address at some point for people who have maybe got foot problems or have have maybe got foot problems or have have maybe got foot problems or have been in inappropriate footwear for a been in inappropriate footwear for a been in inappropriate footwear for a number of years, you know, of course, number of years, you know, of course, number of years, you know, of course, they're going to be listening going, they're going to be listening going, they're going to be listening going, "Well, you know, is it too late? Can I "Well, you know, is it too late? Can I "Well, you know, is it too late? Can I do something about it?" And of course, do something about it?" And of course, do something about it?" And of course, it's not too late. and you you know it's not too late. and you you know it's not too late. and you you know there's many things you can do to there's many things you can do to there's many things you can do to retrain your feet, retrain your feet, retrain your feet, >> but let's start with this blank canvas. >> but let's start with this blank canvas. >> but let's start with this blank canvas. >> If there are some new parents listening, >> If there are some new parents listening, >> If there are some new parents listening, uh when I say new parents, parents of uh when I say new parents, parents of uh when I say new parents, parents of maybe maybe young kids, what are some maybe maybe young kids, what are some maybe maybe young kids, what are some common things that you would recommend common things that you would recommend common things that you would recommend that they do or don't do with their that they do or don't do with their that they do or don't do with their children to protect the health of their children to protect the health of their children to protect the health of their feet? We get a lot of calls into the feet? We get a lot of calls into the feet? We get a lot of calls into the office about flat feet office about flat feet office about flat feet and so parents are very concerned with and so parents are very concerned with and so parents are very concerned with their child's flat feet. Um that is that their child's flat feet. Um that is that their child's flat feet. Um that is that is common in young children. They have is common in young children. They have is common in young children. They have flat feet. Their their bodies are still flat feet. Their their bodies are still flat feet. Their their bodies are still developing and that can be associated developing and that can be associated developing and that can be associated with knock knees where the knees are with knock knees where the knees are with knock knees where the knees are coming together. Um and so they'll say coming together. Um and so they'll say coming together. Um and so they'll say to me, "Do we need some type of foot to me, "Do we need some type of foot to me, "Do we need some type of foot orthosis or does my child need a brace?" orthosis or does my child need a brace?" orthosis or does my child need a brace?" They need sensory stimulation. They need sensory stimulation. They need sensory stimulation. So, we will let children go barefoot as So, we will let children go barefoot as So, we will let children go barefoot as long as they can so they can gather long as they can so they can gather long as they can so they can gather information to improve motor outputs. information to improve motor outputs. information to improve motor outputs. And the shoes that we do put on our And the shoes that we do put on our And the shoes that we do put on our children's feet should re respect the children's feet should re respect the children's feet should re respect the anatomy of the foot, meaning a thin and anatomy of the foot, meaning a thin and anatomy of the foot, meaning a thin and flexible sole so the baby's foot can flexible sole so the baby's foot can flexible sole so the baby's foot can move, so the toes can extend, so the move, so the toes can extend, so the move, so the toes can extend, so the ankle can dorsif flex or bend. the wide ankle can dorsif flex or bend. the wide ankle can dorsif flex or bend. the wide toe box so the toes can spllay. It's toe box so the toes can spllay. It's toe box so the toes can spllay. It's really interesting when you see even really interesting when you see even really interesting when you see even young children's feet who have been in young children's feet who have been in young children's feet who have been in restrictive footwear, you will start to restrictive footwear, you will start to restrictive footwear, you will start to see that change. I was talking about the see that change. I was talking about the see that change. I was talking about the formation of little bumps on the inside formation of little bumps on the inside formation of little bumps on the inside of the foot. That should not be there. of the foot. That should not be there. of the foot. That should not be there. >> Cuz what's interesting when I hear this >> Cuz what's interesting when I hear this >> Cuz what's interesting when I hear this corny is, you know, problems in the foot corny is, you know, problems in the foot corny is, you know, problems in the foot go up the entire chain in the body. Yes. go up the entire chain in the body. Yes. go up the entire chain in the body. Yes. Right. So how many cases of injuries Right. So how many cases of injuries Right. So how many cases of injuries later on in life even as teenagers you later on in life even as teenagers you later on in life even as teenagers you know back pain, hip pain, knee pain, know back pain, hip pain, knee pain, know back pain, hip pain, knee pain, neck stuff. How many neck stuff. How many neck stuff. How many of are are actually downstream of are are actually downstream of are are actually downstream consequences of the fact that our feet consequences of the fact that our feet consequences of the fact that our feet don't move properly. So you lock don't move properly. So you lock don't move properly. So you lock something up there because of the something up there because of the something up there because of the footwear you wear footwear you wear footwear you wear >> and then it just goes up the chain. >> and then it just goes up the chain. >> and then it just goes up the chain. >> Yes. One of the simplest ways to improve >> Yes. One of the simplest ways to improve >> Yes. One of the simplest ways to improve your whole body health is to start with your whole body health is to start with your whole body health is to start with your feet. Now, most of us don't realize your feet. Now, most of us don't realize your feet. Now, most of us don't realize this, but 95% of us are born with this, but 95% of us are born with this, but 95% of us are born with healthy feet. And by adulthood, 77% of healthy feet. And by adulthood, 77% of healthy feet. And by adulthood, 77% of us have foot problems. And a big reason us have foot problems. And a big reason us have foot problems. And a big reason is the shoes that we wear. Now, most is the shoes that we wear. Now, most is the shoes that we wear. Now, most modern shoes are rigid, narrow, and over modern shoes are rigid, narrow, and over modern shoes are rigid, narrow, and over cushioned, which ends up weakening the cushioned, which ends up weakening the cushioned, which ends up weakening the very muscles that support our posture, very muscles that support our posture, very muscles that support our posture, balance, and movement. That's why I have balance, and movement. That's why I have balance, and movement. That's why I have been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for over 10 years now. They're designed for over 10 years now. They're designed for over 10 years now. They're designed for fit, flex, and feel to let your feet do fit, flex, and feel to let your feet do fit, flex, and feel to let your feet do what human feet have evolved to do. And what human feet have evolved to do. And what human feet have evolved to do. And studies show that wearing minimalist studies show that wearing minimalist studies show that wearing minimalist footwear like Vivos can increase foot footwear like Vivos can increase foot footwear like Vivos can increase foot strength by up to 60% in just 6 months, strength by up to 60% in just 6 months, strength by up to 60% in just 6 months, which can improve balance, posture, and which can improve balance, posture, and which can improve balance, posture, and the way in which you move. 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Explore the new Pelaton Crossraining Bike Plus by new Pelaton Crossraining Bike Plus by new Pelaton Crossraining Bike Plus by clicking on the link below or by clicking on the link below or by clicking on the link below or by scanning the QR code on screen. scanning the QR code on screen. scanning the QR code on screen. >> I my patients I when I see them I always >> I my patients I when I see them I always >> I my patients I when I see them I always say I wish it was just a foot problem say I wish it was just a foot problem say I wish it was just a foot problem because it would make things easier but because it would make things easier but because it would make things easier but it never is. It is never just a foot it never is. It is never just a foot it never is. It is never just a foot problem. problem. problem. >> What do you mean? You mean if it's >> What do you mean? You mean if it's >> What do you mean? You mean if it's something further up it's something further up it's something further up it's >> I Yes. Neck pain, low back pain, hip >> I Yes. Neck pain, low back pain, hip >> I Yes. Neck pain, low back pain, hip pain. I'm always assessing their entire pain. I'm always assessing their entire pain. I'm always assessing their entire bodies. there's a person behind this bodies. there's a person behind this bodies. there's a person behind this diagnosis of heel pain. So you can't diagnosis of heel pain. So you can't diagnosis of heel pain. So you can't just look at the heel because there's so just look at the heel because there's so just look at the heel because there's so many other factors that are driving how many other factors that are driving how many other factors that are driving how that foot is hitting the ground. So that foot is hitting the ground. So that foot is hitting the ground. So there is certainly is a correlation there is certainly is a correlation there is certainly is a correlation between what that foot is doing and how between what that foot is doing and how between what that foot is doing and how those loads and ground reaction forces those loads and ground reaction forces those loads and ground reaction forces are going up the rest of the body. are going up the rest of the body. are going up the rest of the body. >> Yeah. So it's like I'm no builder, >> Yeah. So it's like I'm no builder, >> Yeah. So it's like I'm no builder, right? As this will make very clear, but right? As this will make very clear, but right? As this will make very clear, but let's say you're building a house and let's say you're building a house and let's say you're building a house and we're talking about the foundation. The we're talking about the foundation. The we're talking about the foundation. The feet are the foundation of the entire feet are the foundation of the entire feet are the foundation of the entire body, right? body, right? body, right? >> It's like building a house on sand. >> It's like building a house on sand. >> It's like building a house on sand. >> Yeah. Or you're building a house, let's >> Yeah. Or you're building a house, let's >> Yeah. Or you're building a house, let's say it's uneven at the bottom say it's uneven at the bottom say it's uneven at the bottom >> and therefore, let's say it's a twotory >> and therefore, let's say it's a twotory >> and therefore, let's say it's a twotory house. You're like in the bedroom going, house. You're like in the bedroom going, house. You're like in the bedroom going, "Hey, the ceiling is uh it's not flat, "Hey, the ceiling is uh it's not flat, "Hey, the ceiling is uh it's not flat, right? We need to do something. We need right? We need to do something. We need right? We need to do something. We need to get someone to fix the ceiling." It's to get someone to fix the ceiling." It's to get someone to fix the ceiling." It's like, "Yeah, but of course the ceiling like, "Yeah, but of course the ceiling like, "Yeah, but of course the ceiling isn't flat because your foundations isn't flat because your foundations isn't flat because your foundations aren't right." Right. So, it's like, why aren't right." Right. So, it's like, why aren't right." Right. So, it's like, why don't we fix the foundations first and don't we fix the foundations first and don't we fix the foundations first and maybe this will naturally correct maybe this will naturally correct maybe this will naturally correct itself. itself. itself. >> Yes. or you're going to have to keep >> Yes. or you're going to have to keep >> Yes. or you're going to have to keep fixing the ceiling. fixing the ceiling. fixing the ceiling. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And you're not going to ever get the >> And you're not going to ever get the >> And you're not going to ever get the result you're looking for. result you're looking for. result you're looking for. >> So, in practical terms, I think what >> So, in practical terms, I think what >> So, in practical terms, I think what you're saying for a child is you're saying for a child is you're saying for a child is in the house, keep them barefoot as much in the house, keep them barefoot as much in the house, keep them barefoot as much as you can. Does that mean without socks as you can. Does that mean without socks as you can. Does that mean without socks as well? as well? as well? >> The anytime there's an interference >> The anytime there's an interference >> The anytime there's an interference between the sole of the foot and the between the sole of the foot and the between the sole of the foot and the ground, you change the sensitivity of ground, you change the sensitivity of ground, you change the sensitivity of the receptors or the amount of pressure the receptors or the amount of pressure the receptors or the amount of pressure that stimulates these receptors. sock that stimulates these receptors. sock that stimulates these receptors. sock obviously is going to be better than say obviously is going to be better than say obviously is going to be better than say a very thick sole but when the foot can a very thick sole but when the foot can a very thick sole but when the foot can feel barefoot that would be ideal. feel barefoot that would be ideal. feel barefoot that would be ideal. >> Okay. So keep them in you know barefoot >> Okay. So keep them in you know barefoot >> Okay. So keep them in you know barefoot as much as they can. Obviously if it's as much as they can. Obviously if it's as much as they can. Obviously if it's super cold you might want to put some super cold you might want to put some super cold you might want to put some socks on but if so as thin as possible I socks on but if so as thin as possible I socks on but if so as thin as possible I guess you would say. guess you would say. guess you would say. >> What about when that child is going to >> What about when that child is going to >> What about when that child is going to leave the house? leave the house? leave the house? >> What are the key things? I know you've >> What are the key things? I know you've >> What are the key things? I know you've sort of touched on this, but I just want sort of touched on this, but I just want sort of touched on this, but I just want to make sure the point is landed like to make sure the point is landed like to make sure the point is landed like should they be wearing shoes and if so, should they be wearing shoes and if so, should they be wearing shoes and if so, what shoes? what shoes? what shoes? >> Yeah, I think it's, you know, that's >> Yeah, I think it's, you know, that's >> Yeah, I think it's, you know, that's such a there's so many kind of layers such a there's so many kind of layers such a there's so many kind of layers there. I think the environment is there. I think the environment is there. I think the environment is important in certain parts of the world important in certain parts of the world important in certain parts of the world where children are used to being where children are used to being where children are used to being barefoot more often, the transition into barefoot more often, the transition into barefoot more often, the transition into minimal footwear or barefoot footwear minimal footwear or barefoot footwear minimal footwear or barefoot footwear tends to be easier. Yeah. But in other tends to be easier. Yeah. But in other tends to be easier. Yeah. But in other cultures where you know shoes are still cultures where you know shoes are still cultures where you know shoes are still worn inside or you know they're not used worn inside or you know they're not used worn inside or you know they're not used to barefoot it there's a different to barefoot it there's a different to barefoot it there's a different conversation there when we look at conversation there when we look at conversation there when we look at footwear for children overall footwear for children overall footwear for children overall thin and flexible sole. So again, you thin and flexible sole. So again, you thin and flexible sole. So again, you want the soul to be able to move like want the soul to be able to move like want the soul to be able to move like the foot moves. the foot moves. the foot moves. >> And and just, you know, for people who >> And and just, you know, for people who >> And and just, you know, for people who feel that they're not necessarily feel that they're not necessarily feel that they're not necessarily trained trained trained and you know, cuz of course sometimes and you know, cuz of course sometimes and you know, cuz of course sometimes the store staff will tell them something the store staff will tell them something the store staff will tell them something different to what you're saying, different to what you're saying, different to what you're saying, Courtney. But is it as simple as them Courtney. But is it as simple as them Courtney. But is it as simple as them just feeling the soul? just feeling the soul? just feeling the soul? >> Roll it up in a ball. >> Roll it up in a ball. >> Roll it up in a ball. >> Roll it up in a ball because that's what >> Roll it up in a ball because that's what >> Roll it up in a ball because that's what the Vivos Eyewear. Yep. the Vivos Eyewear. Yep. the Vivos Eyewear. Yep. >> You can just roll it up, >> You can just roll it up, >> You can just roll it up, >> roll it up, >> roll it up, >> roll it up, >> scrunch it, right? >> scrunch it, right? >> scrunch it, right? >> Twist it. >> Twist it. >> Twist it. >> Which basically means that your feet can >> Which basically means that your feet can >> Which basically means that your feet can do what your feet want to do without the do what your feet want to do without the do what your feet want to do without the sole negatively influencing it. sole negatively influencing it. sole negatively influencing it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, thinner and flexible soul. >> Okay. So, thinner and flexible soul. >> Okay. So, thinner and flexible soul. >> Wide toe box. That's kind of my >> Wide toe box. That's kind of my >> Wide toe box. That's kind of my non-negotiable. The wide toe box is non-negotiable. The wide toe box is non-negotiable. The wide toe box is really my number one because when you really my number one because when you really my number one because when you start to taper the toes, you change what start to taper the toes, you change what start to taper the toes, you change what the foot was designed to look like. the foot was designed to look like. the foot was designed to look like. So, you know, I I know this is obvious So, you know, I I know this is obvious So, you know, I I know this is obvious to you and to a degree to me, to you and to a degree to me, to you and to a degree to me, but you just think about whether it's but you just think about whether it's but you just think about whether it's guys or women, like women with high guys or women, like women with high guys or women, like women with high heels and these really narrow soles, heels and these really narrow soles, heels and these really narrow soles, men's dress shoes with these pointed men's dress shoes with these pointed men's dress shoes with these pointed soles. soles. soles. >> I mean, we're quite literally deforming >> I mean, we're quite literally deforming >> I mean, we're quite literally deforming our feet. our feet. our feet. >> That's exactly what we're doing. That's >> That's exactly what we're doing. That's >> That's exactly what we're doing. That's exactly what we're doing. It's almost exactly what we're doing. It's almost exactly what we're doing. It's almost you can't, you know, I say that I almost you can't, you know, I say that I almost you can't, you know, I say that I almost have to have to catch myself cuz that have to have to catch myself cuz that have to have to catch myself cuz that can be seen as quite an inflammatory can be seen as quite an inflammatory can be seen as quite an inflammatory comment to people, but that's what we're comment to people, but that's what we're comment to people, but that's what we're doing. We're wrecking our feet by trying doing. We're wrecking our feet by trying doing. We're wrecking our feet by trying to shove it into these things. It's to shove it into these things. It's to shove it into these things. It's like, what other body part would you do like, what other body part would you do like, what other body part would you do that with? that with? that with? >> You wouldn't. >> You wouldn't. >> You wouldn't. >> And and be okay with it. >> And and be okay with it. >> And and be okay with it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> It really >> It really >> It really >> marketing is powerful. >> marketing is powerful. >> marketing is powerful. >> It It is. And it really >> It It is. And it really >> It It is. And it really I love when I hear my patients say, I love when I hear my patients say, I love when I hear my patients say, "Well, that really makes sense and "Well, that really makes sense and "Well, that really makes sense and you've given me hope." Like this is not you've given me hope." Like this is not you've given me hope." Like this is not a hard conversation if you really think a hard conversation if you really think a hard conversation if you really think about this. about this. about this. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> this is not wow that's you know that >> this is not wow that's you know that >> this is not wow that's you know that sounds odd. It makes sense. It makes sounds odd. It makes sense. It makes sounds odd. It makes sense. It makes sense. And that wide toe box is very sense. And that wide toe box is very sense. And that wide toe box is very important for not only the development important for not only the development important for not only the development of a child's foot but also an adult of a child's foot but also an adult of a child's foot but also an adult foot. foot. foot. And then this heel, the other factor And then this heel, the other factor And then this heel, the other factor with the footwear is having the heel and with the footwear is having the heel and with the footwear is having the heel and the toes sit on the same plane. the toes sit on the same plane. the toes sit on the same plane. >> So you don't want the heel above the >> So you don't want the heel above the >> So you don't want the heel above the toes. Correct. When you have the heel toes. Correct. When you have the heel toes. Correct. When you have the heel above the toes, you're changing how the above the toes, you're changing how the above the toes, you're changing how the foot is feeling the ground. So, you're foot is feeling the ground. So, you're foot is feeling the ground. So, you're shortening the Achilles shortening the Achilles shortening the Achilles >> and the calf complex. You're putting >> and the calf complex. You're putting >> and the calf complex. You're putting more pressure through the ball of the more pressure through the ball of the more pressure through the ball of the foot. foot. foot. >> And now you're putting more pressure >> And now you're putting more pressure >> And now you're putting more pressure through the ball of the foot when it through the ball of the foot when it through the ball of the foot when it looks like a point. I mean, if if you looks like a point. I mean, if if you looks like a point. I mean, if if you guys are watch, you know, if you're guys are watch, you know, if you're guys are watch, you know, if you're listening to this, listening to this, listening to this, >> um, maybe just have a quick look at the >> um, maybe just have a quick look at the >> um, maybe just have a quick look at the YouTube version of this video because YouTube version of this video because YouTube version of this video because >> just just put that up again, Courtney, >> just just put that up again, Courtney, >> just just put that up again, Courtney, because it's crazy. You've got this because it's crazy. You've got this because it's crazy. You've got this gorgeous Why don't you You know what? gorgeous Why don't you You know what? gorgeous Why don't you You know what? Who do you quote? You quote Leonardo da Who do you quote? You quote Leonardo da Who do you quote? You quote Leonardo da Vinci. You've got the human foot is a Vinci. You've got the human foot is a Vinci. You've got the human foot is a masterpiece of engineering and a work of masterpiece of engineering and a work of masterpiece of engineering and a work of art. Yes, it is. art. Yes, it is. art. Yes, it is. >> Right. It looks gorgeous there. >> Right. It looks gorgeous there. >> Right. It looks gorgeous there. >> Yes. And you're just scrunching it up >> Yes. And you're just scrunching it up >> Yes. And you're just scrunching it up and squeezing these beautiful joints and squeezing these beautiful joints and squeezing these beautiful joints which is the high heel shape. Right. which is the high heel shape. Right. which is the high heel shape. Right. >> Yes. And if this is really I think is >> Yes. And if this is really I think is >> Yes. And if this is really I think is really fascinating. If when people say really fascinating. If when people say really fascinating. If when people say to me the foot needs arch support to me the foot needs arch support to me the foot needs arch support if my foot looks like a foot. So, for if my foot looks like a foot. So, for if my foot looks like a foot. So, for example, when the toes are wide and example, when the toes are wide and example, when the toes are wide and spled and strong, and I go to push off spled and strong, and I go to push off spled and strong, and I go to push off when I'm walking, this foot was designed when I'm walking, this foot was designed when I'm walking, this foot was designed to get stiff and to be strong to propel to get stiff and to be strong to propel to get stiff and to be strong to propel us forward. Now, if I take this big toe us forward. Now, if I take this big toe us forward. Now, if I take this big toe and I squeeze it together, and I squeeze it together, and I squeeze it together, when I go to push off, I lose the when I go to push off, I lose the when I go to push off, I lose the integrity integrity integrity of the foot. So, you're changing the of the foot. So, you're changing the of the foot. So, you're changing the dynamics and the forces going through dynamics and the forces going through dynamics and the forces going through the foot. To me that is um it doesn't the foot. To me that is um it doesn't the foot. To me that is um it doesn't make any sense. make any sense. make any sense. >> Which is why of course when I was in you >> Which is why of course when I was in you >> Which is why of course when I was in you know wedding season with my mates as it know wedding season with my mates as it know wedding season with my mates as it were it's not uncommon for you know my were it's not uncommon for you know my were it's not uncommon for you know my wife or her mates or my mates at the end wife or her mates or my mates at the end wife or her mates or my mates at the end of the night to say you know want to of the night to say you know want to of the night to say you know want to take those high heels off. take those high heels off. take those high heels off. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> As soon as possible after the wedding. >> As soon as possible after the wedding. >> As soon as possible after the wedding. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. So >> Yeah. Okay. So >> Yeah. Okay. So two big non-negotiables for you. You say two big non-negotiables for you. You say two big non-negotiables for you. You say number one, and this goes beyond number one, and this goes beyond number one, and this goes beyond children. This is now adults as well. children. This is now adults as well. children. This is now adults as well. When we're choosing our footwear, you When we're choosing our footwear, you When we're choosing our footwear, you want a wide toe box, and you don't want want a wide toe box, and you don't want want a wide toe box, and you don't want this drop. No, sorry. Was it a thin and this drop. No, sorry. Was it a thin and this drop. No, sorry. Was it a thin and flexible sole? flexible sole? flexible sole? >> So, if I had to put these in order, and >> So, if I had to put these in order, and >> So, if I had to put these in order, and there's a reason for this. there's a reason for this. there's a reason for this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The wide toe box, >> The wide toe box, >> The wide toe box, this the sole, the heel and the toe this the sole, the heel and the toe this the sole, the heel and the toe sitting on the same plane, and then the sitting on the same plane, and then the sitting on the same plane, and then the thin and flexible sole. Uh this is where thin and flexible sole. Uh this is where thin and flexible sole. Uh this is where I was going with the adaptation. I was going with the adaptation. I was going with the adaptation. The thin and flexible soul component is The thin and flexible soul component is The thin and flexible soul component is difficult for people to get used to if difficult for people to get used to if difficult for people to get used to if they have not been walking around they have not been walking around they have not been walking around barefoot, if they don't have a lot of barefoot, if they don't have a lot of barefoot, if they don't have a lot of experience with their foot on the ground experience with their foot on the ground experience with their foot on the ground because thin and flexible can also be a because thin and flexible can also be a because thin and flexible can also be a little uncomfortable for someone who's little uncomfortable for someone who's little uncomfortable for someone who's not used to it. not used to it. not used to it. >> Okay. So, I like this. So, you're saying >> Okay. So, I like this. So, you're saying >> Okay. So, I like this. So, you're saying there's a there's a way to progress. there's a there's a way to progress. there's a there's a way to progress. >> Yes. And that's very important because a >> Yes. And that's very important because a >> Yes. And that's very important because a lot of my patients live in cities for lot of my patients live in cities for lot of my patients live in cities for example and they've been walking around example and they've been walking around example and they've been walking around in poor footwear in poor footwear in poor footwear >> for decades >> for decades >> for decades >> for decades. And so if I said to them if >> for decades. And so if I said to them if >> for decades. And so if I said to them if we have this conversation and it will we have this conversation and it will we have this conversation and it will make sense to them so they'll be they'll make sense to them so they'll be they'll make sense to them so they'll be they'll want to go all in. They'll say, "Give me want to go all in. They'll say, "Give me want to go all in. They'll say, "Give me a minimal shoe." And I said, "Well, hold a minimal shoe." And I said, "Well, hold a minimal shoe." And I said, "Well, hold on. Yes, I want you in a wide toe box, on. Yes, I want you in a wide toe box, on. Yes, I want you in a wide toe box, but you've been walking around in a but you've been walking around in a but you've been walking around in a trainer that has a 10 mm drop. That's a trainer that has a 10 mm drop. That's a trainer that has a 10 mm drop. That's a that's a high heel in my world. So, to that's a high heel in my world. So, to that's a high heel in my world. So, to drop you down to zero and put you in drop you down to zero and put you in drop you down to zero and put you in something thin and flexible, something thin and flexible, something thin and flexible, that'd be like me telling someone to that'd be like me telling someone to that'd be like me telling someone to squat 100 lb this week and 200 lb next squat 100 lb this week and 200 lb next squat 100 lb this week and 200 lb next week. It's too much load." which is of week. It's too much load." which is of week. It's too much load." which is of course where some of the critique comes. course where some of the critique comes. course where some of the critique comes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> At you know inverse commerce barefoot >> At you know inverse commerce barefoot >> At you know inverse commerce barefoot shoes or minimal shoes whatever you want shoes or minimal shoes whatever you want shoes or minimal shoes whatever you want to call them to call them to call them >> because >> because >> because we're looking at people who've spent we're looking at people who've spent we're looking at people who've spent decades in poor footwear. decades in poor footwear. decades in poor footwear. >> Suddenly they try and go and run a half >> Suddenly they try and go and run a half >> Suddenly they try and go and run a half marathon. Yes. marathon. Yes. marathon. Yes. >> In a barefoot shoe and go, "Oh, you >> In a barefoot shoe and go, "Oh, you >> In a barefoot shoe and go, "Oh, you know, I got injured." know, I got injured." know, I got injured." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Barefoot shoes are a load of rubbish. >> Barefoot shoes are a load of rubbish. >> Barefoot shoes are a load of rubbish. It's like, "Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. It's like, "Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. It's like, "Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You need to transition Wait a minute. You need to transition Wait a minute. You need to transition perhaps." Okay, Courtney. just to make perhaps." Okay, Courtney. just to make perhaps." Okay, Courtney. just to make sure this is landing with everyone. sure this is landing with everyone. sure this is landing with everyone. Right? So if Right? So if Right? So if the in my head there's almost um well the in my head there's almost um well the in my head there's almost um well two or three categories of people we two or three categories of people we two or three categories of people we need to be thinking about. Okay. One is need to be thinking about. Okay. One is need to be thinking about. Okay. One is children. So assuming your child is born children. So assuming your child is born children. So assuming your child is born and there's no issues, and there's no issues, and there's no issues, what we're trying to do is not create what we're trying to do is not create what we're trying to do is not create issues for them. issues for them. issues for them. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> In the future, right? So as much as >> In the future, right? So as much as >> In the future, right? So as much as possible, possible, possible, >> do the things that we mentioned so far. >> do the things that we mentioned so far. >> do the things that we mentioned so far. >> Yes. Right. And I think also for >> Yes. Right. And I think also for >> Yes. Right. And I think also for parents, it's also understanding that parents, it's also understanding that parents, it's also understanding that your child might play football. They your child might play football. They your child might play football. They might be on ice skates. It's okay. might be on ice skates. It's okay. might be on ice skates. It's okay. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> It's okay. They're going to be in >> It's okay. They're going to be in >> It's okay. They're going to be in certain footwear at times because that's certain footwear at times because that's certain footwear at times because that's what the task requires. what the task requires. what the task requires. It's when they're out of that footwear It's when they're out of that footwear It's when they're out of that footwear that's when we want to make sure that that's when we want to make sure that that's when we want to make sure that they're in minimal footwear, functional they're in minimal footwear, functional they're in minimal footwear, functional footwear. But yeah, that's really footwear. But yeah, that's really footwear. But yeah, that's really reassuring. Okay. For for people. So reassuring. Okay. For for people. So reassuring. Okay. For for people. So yeah, wear the wear the football boot yeah, wear the wear the football boot yeah, wear the wear the football boot with studs when you're playing football. with studs when you're playing football. with studs when you're playing football. >> Yes, >> Yes, >> Yes, >> no problem. But just don't wear them all >> no problem. But just don't wear them all >> no problem. But just don't wear them all the time, which of course they wouldn't the time, which of course they wouldn't the time, which of course they wouldn't do with that. But I tell you what what do with that. But I tell you what what do with that. But I tell you what what does you do see a lot these days is you does you do see a lot these days is you does you do see a lot these days is you see a lot of these premium running see a lot of these premium running see a lot of these premium running brands brands brands uh which are I I won't necessarily uh which are I I won't necessarily uh which are I I won't necessarily mention the name of one of them but that mention the name of one of them but that mention the name of one of them but that you know they're very very thick you know they're very very thick you know they're very very thick cushioned running shoes cushioned running shoes cushioned running shoes >> and you could just about well I get I'd >> and you could just about well I get I'd >> and you could just about well I get I'd love your perspective on what you think love your perspective on what you think love your perspective on what you think about these uh inverse commas running about these uh inverse commas running about these uh inverse commas running shoes but I think one of the problems is shoes but I think one of the problems is shoes but I think one of the problems is is that people are not just wearing them is that people are not just wearing them is that people are not just wearing them for running. Yes, for running. Yes, for running. Yes, >> they're wearing these floaty, heavily >> they're wearing these floaty, heavily >> they're wearing these floaty, heavily cushioned shoes for work, cushioned shoes for work, cushioned shoes for work, >> for walking around the airport, for >> for walking around the airport, for >> for walking around the airport, for going to the supermarket. It's like, going to the supermarket. It's like, going to the supermarket. It's like, well, okay, maybe there's a case for well, okay, maybe there's a case for well, okay, maybe there's a case for wearing it when you run, although you wearing it when you run, although you wearing it when you run, although you may have a different perspective on may have a different perspective on may have a different perspective on that, but don't spend the rest of your that, but don't spend the rest of your that, but don't spend the rest of your life in it as well. life in it as well. life in it as well. >> Yes, there's a a different tool for the >> Yes, there's a a different tool for the >> Yes, there's a a different tool for the task at hand, you know. Um, your running task at hand, you know. Um, your running task at hand, you know. Um, your running shoe, your trainer is not your strength shoe, your trainer is not your strength shoe, your trainer is not your strength training shoe. training shoe. training shoe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If we go, let's just talk about strength If we go, let's just talk about strength If we go, let's just talk about strength training for a second. When I'm in a gym training for a second. When I'm in a gym training for a second. When I'm in a gym and I'm carrying heavy things. and I'm carrying heavy things. and I'm carrying heavy things. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Your foot has to feel the ground. >> Your foot has to feel the ground. >> Your foot has to feel the ground. It has to be strong and stable. If I was It has to be strong and stable. If I was It has to be strong and stable. If I was going to deadlift, for example, or heavy going to deadlift, for example, or heavy going to deadlift, for example, or heavy squat. I don't want to be squatting or squat. I don't want to be squatting or squat. I don't want to be squatting or deadlifting with a lot of weight in my deadlifting with a lot of weight in my deadlifting with a lot of weight in my hand standing on a pillow. hand standing on a pillow. hand standing on a pillow. That would change the pressures going That would change the pressures going That would change the pressures going through my knee and through my hip. It through my knee and through my hip. It through my knee and through my hip. It would basically your body sitting there would basically your body sitting there would basically your body sitting there going, "Wait a second. going, "Wait a second. going, "Wait a second. I need to I need to feel something." I need to I need to feel something." I need to I need to feel something." >> Connie, that that's such a provocative >> Connie, that that's such a provocative >> Connie, that that's such a provocative analogy, standing on a pillow. Everyone analogy, standing on a pillow. Everyone analogy, standing on a pillow. Everyone kind of gets that, right? kind of gets that, right? kind of gets that, right? You wouldn't do that in the gym. You You wouldn't do that in the gym. You You wouldn't do that in the gym. You wouldn't stand on a pillow and try and wouldn't stand on a pillow and try and wouldn't stand on a pillow and try and do this stuff. You'd want to feel the do this stuff. You'd want to feel the do this stuff. You'd want to feel the ground. You give it your traction and, ground. You give it your traction and, ground. You give it your traction and, you know, get that feedback. you know, get that feedback. you know, get that feedback. Why is it okay then to run on pillows? Why is it okay then to run on pillows? Why is it okay then to run on pillows? >> Depends on what type of runner you are. >> Depends on what type of runner you are. >> Depends on what type of runner you are. I guess um I guess um I guess um >> and when I say pillow, I'm talking about >> and when I say pillow, I'm talking about >> and when I say pillow, I'm talking about these thick cushioned these thick cushioned these thick cushioned soles where frankly you can't feel the soles where frankly you can't feel the soles where frankly you can't feel the ground. ground. ground. >> There's always a trade-off with >> There's always a trade-off with >> There's always a trade-off with footwear. So if we look at cushioned footwear. So if we look at cushioned footwear. So if we look at cushioned footwear, for example, footwear, for example, footwear, for example, when someone puts that on initially, when someone puts that on initially, when someone puts that on initially, they say, "Wow, this is comfortable. they say, "Wow, this is comfortable. they say, "Wow, this is comfortable. I have a lot of protection. I have a lot of protection. I have a lot of protection. You are getting protection. There's a You are getting protection. There's a You are getting protection. There's a lot of material between the sole of your lot of material between the sole of your lot of material between the sole of your foot and the ground. But here's the foot and the ground. But here's the foot and the ground. But here's the trade-off. trade-off. trade-off. You compromise sensory acuity. You compromise sensory acuity. You compromise sensory acuity. >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> You compromise sensory information >> You compromise sensory information >> You compromise sensory information because there's an interference between because there's an interference between because there's an interference between all those beautiful receptors on the all those beautiful receptors on the all those beautiful receptors on the soles of the feet and what they are soles of the feet and what they are soles of the feet and what they are trying to feel. when you put a lot of trying to feel. when you put a lot of trying to feel. when you put a lot of soul between your foot and the ground. soul between your foot and the ground. soul between your foot and the ground. So, as I'm If my goal is I want to help So, as I'm If my goal is I want to help So, as I'm If my goal is I want to help someone's balance. someone's balance. someone's balance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My dad, I want to make sure he doesn't >> My dad, I want to make sure he doesn't >> My dad, I want to make sure he doesn't fall. Does it make a lot of sense for me fall. Does it make a lot of sense for me fall. Does it make a lot of sense for me to make that harder on him by putting a to make that harder on him by putting a to make that harder on him by putting a lot of material between what he's lot of material between what he's lot of material between what he's supposed to be feeling supposed to be feeling supposed to be feeling in the ground? in the ground? in the ground? So, we need to think about those things. So, we need to think about those things. So, we need to think about those things. Is your goal to walk 10 miles on a Is your goal to walk 10 miles on a Is your goal to walk 10 miles on a trail? trail? trail? And does your foot not have the capacity And does your foot not have the capacity And does your foot not have the capacity or strength? Do you need more cushion in or strength? Do you need more cushion in or strength? Do you need more cushion in that scenario? Possibly. that scenario? Possibly. that scenario? Possibly. But keep this in mind. You will But keep this in mind. You will But keep this in mind. You will compromise what you're getting, what compromise what you're getting, what compromise what you're getting, what you're feeling from the ground. So, you you're feeling from the ground. So, you you're feeling from the ground. So, you have to ask yourself that question. What have to ask yourself that question. What have to ask yourself that question. What are my goals? are my goals? are my goals? >> It's it's um the cost of comfort, right? >> It's it's um the cost of comfort, right? >> It's it's um the cost of comfort, right? >> That's right. We can see the cost of >> That's right. We can see the cost of >> That's right. We can see the cost of comfort in other areas in life. Uh if we comfort in other areas in life. Uh if we comfort in other areas in life. Uh if we drive everywhere drive everywhere drive everywhere comfortable in our heated car with our comfortable in our heated car with our comfortable in our heated car with our favorite music playing, wonderful. But favorite music playing, wonderful. But favorite music playing, wonderful. But if we keep doing that and don't move our if we keep doing that and don't move our if we keep doing that and don't move our bodies, bodies, bodies, >> there comes a cost, right? We get that. >> there comes a cost, right? We get that. >> there comes a cost, right? We get that. >> If we use our phones for everything and, >> If we use our phones for everything and, >> If we use our phones for everything and, you know, get all our shopping delivered you know, get all our shopping delivered you know, get all our shopping delivered and our food delivered to us, very and our food delivered to us, very and our food delivered to us, very convenient, convenient, convenient, >> but there's a cost. >> but there's a cost. >> but there's a cost. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I love the way that that also >> And I love the way that that also >> And I love the way that that also applies to our footwear. a nice applies to our footwear. a nice applies to our footwear. a nice cushioned shoe beautifully, you know, cushioned shoe beautifully, you know, cushioned shoe beautifully, you know, you bounce and go, "Oh god, this is you bounce and go, "Oh god, this is you bounce and go, "Oh god, this is nice." nice." nice." >> But you're switching off your nerves, >> But you're switching off your nerves, >> But you're switching off your nerves, your propriceptive kind of inputs to the your propriceptive kind of inputs to the your propriceptive kind of inputs to the body, your balance. body, your balance. body, your balance. >> So, are you aware of the trade that >> So, are you aware of the trade that >> So, are you aware of the trade that you're making when you purchase your you're making when you purchase your you're making when you purchase your footwear? footwear? footwear? >> I just that is my goal, my mission in >> I just that is my goal, my mission in >> I just that is my goal, my mission in life is to just get people to start life is to just get people to start life is to just get people to start thinking about the foot like we do thinking about the foot like we do thinking about the foot like we do everything else. All those examples you everything else. All those examples you everything else. All those examples you just gave, if we took those examples and just gave, if we took those examples and just gave, if we took those examples and applied them to the foot, we would all applied them to the foot, we would all applied them to the foot, we would all be asking ourselves that question. be asking ourselves that question. be asking ourselves that question. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Let's go back to these three groups of >> Let's go back to these three groups of >> Let's go back to these three groups of people I had in my mind. Um, children people I had in my mind. Um, children people I had in my mind. Um, children who have got healthy feet. Let's try and who have got healthy feet. Let's try and who have got healthy feet. Let's try and not do stuff that messes their feet up. not do stuff that messes their feet up. not do stuff that messes their feet up. >> Correct. Then the second category of >> Correct. Then the second category of >> Correct. Then the second category of people for me was people for me was people for me was people I guess who were well maybe they people I guess who were well maybe they people I guess who were well maybe they don't have you know a and so in averse don't have you know a and so in averse don't have you know a and so in averse comes a problem like a bunion or plantto comes a problem like a bunion or plantto comes a problem like a bunion or plantto fasciitis or you know foot pain or fasciitis or you know foot pain or fasciitis or you know foot pain or whatever it is but they realize that you whatever it is but they realize that you whatever it is but they realize that you know what I'm not wearing the best know what I'm not wearing the best know what I'm not wearing the best footwear for me and as I get older I footwear for me and as I get older I footwear for me and as I get older I better start paying attention to my feet better start paying attention to my feet better start paying attention to my feet and then I guess the third category is and then I guess the third category is and then I guess the third category is people who do have established problems. people who do have established problems. people who do have established problems. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um from the modern world, maybe from >> Um from the modern world, maybe from >> Um from the modern world, maybe from inappropriate footwear. So, I want to inappropriate footwear. So, I want to inappropriate footwear. So, I want to make sure I keep those three groups of make sure I keep those three groups of make sure I keep those three groups of people in mind people in mind people in mind uh throughout this conversation. uh throughout this conversation. uh throughout this conversation. You mentioned how to choose footwear for You mentioned how to choose footwear for You mentioned how to choose footwear for children. children. children. If you're in that second category, you If you're in that second category, you If you're in that second category, you know, like I imagine many people listen know, like I imagine many people listen know, like I imagine many people listen to this podcast, they're sort of they're to this podcast, they're sort of they're to this podcast, they're sort of they're pretty well. They try and look after pretty well. They try and look after pretty well. They try and look after themselves. They're interested in health themselves. They're interested in health themselves. They're interested in health and they're realizing and they're realizing and they're realizing >> I've not really thought about my foot >> I've not really thought about my foot >> I've not really thought about my foot health. but I don't want to have a four health. but I don't want to have a four health. but I don't want to have a four when I'm older. I don't want to have when I'm older. I don't want to have when I'm older. I don't want to have other problems. So, let me start paying other problems. So, let me start paying other problems. So, let me start paying attention. And let's say they're used to attention. And let's say they're used to attention. And let's say they're used to wearing modern cushioned supported wearing modern cushioned supported wearing modern cushioned supported footwear. footwear. footwear. Help that person understand what to do. Help that person understand what to do. Help that person understand what to do. And I think what might be useful is this And I think what might be useful is this And I think what might be useful is this um distinction you make in the book of um distinction you make in the book of um distinction you make in the book of minimal footwear versus functional minimal footwear versus functional minimal footwear versus functional footwear. footwear. footwear. if someone it's been really interesting if someone it's been really interesting if someone it's been really interesting to see my practice change too because to see my practice change too because to see my practice change too because years ago it was um people would come in years ago it was um people would come in years ago it was um people would come in with foot pain and say hey can you help with foot pain and say hey can you help with foot pain and say hey can you help me with my foot pain me with my foot pain me with my foot pain >> but now I think because this education >> but now I think because this education >> but now I think because this education is becoming more widespread I'm seeing is becoming more widespread I'm seeing is becoming more widespread I'm seeing people in the second category they're people in the second category they're people in the second category they're like I know I haven't been wearing like I know I haven't been wearing like I know I haven't been wearing >> the right footwear I don't necessarily >> the right footwear I don't necessarily >> the right footwear I don't necessarily have problems in my feet but this makes have problems in my feet but this makes have problems in my feet but this makes sense to me so what do I do sense to me so what do I do sense to me so what do I do So we will run them through the So we will run them through the So we will run them through the assessments of their foot. How does it assessments of their foot. How does it assessments of their foot. How does it move? Do they have dexterity? Do they move? Do they have dexterity? Do they move? Do they have dexterity? Do they have good strength and then based on have good strength and then based on have good strength and then based on that we will talk to them about that we will talk to them about that we will talk to them about footwear? footwear? footwear? If I put them into a minimal shoe, which If I put them into a minimal shoe, which If I put them into a minimal shoe, which those requirements again are wide toe those requirements again are wide toe those requirements again are wide toe box, zero drop, so heel and toes on the box, zero drop, so heel and toes on the box, zero drop, so heel and toes on the same plane and thin and flexible soul. same plane and thin and flexible soul. same plane and thin and flexible soul. >> So those are the three criteria for a >> So those are the three criteria for a >> So those are the three criteria for a minimal shoe. minimal shoe. minimal shoe. >> Yes. And could you just top of your head >> Yes. And could you just top of your head >> Yes. And could you just top of your head mention some brands which qualify as mention some brands which qualify as mention some brands which qualify as minimal shoe? minimal shoe? minimal shoe? >> Vivo barefoot. >> Vivo barefoot. >> Vivo barefoot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Blanka. >> Blanka. >> Blanka. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Zero. >> Zero. >> Zero. >> These are minimal correct shoes. Okay. >> These are minimal correct shoes. Okay. >> These are minimal correct shoes. Okay. >> We will have the conversation of >> We will have the conversation of >> We will have the conversation of duration. duration. duration. So I always say you have to earn your So I always say you have to earn your So I always say you have to earn your right to wear minimal footwear. right to wear minimal footwear. right to wear minimal footwear. >> Okay? because there are more loads going >> Okay? because there are more loads going >> Okay? because there are more loads going through all of your tissues, your bone, through all of your tissues, your bone, through all of your tissues, your bone, your tendons, your ligaments, your your tendons, your ligaments, your your tendons, your ligaments, your muscles. This is a good thing. muscles. This is a good thing. muscles. This is a good thing. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> this is when we get stronger. >> this is when we get stronger. >> this is when we get stronger. But again, taking everything we know But again, taking everything we know But again, taking everything we know about the human body and how we would about the human body and how we would about the human body and how we would train the human body, we have to apply train the human body, we have to apply train the human body, we have to apply that to the foot. So, it is slow. You're that to the foot. So, it is slow. You're that to the foot. So, it is slow. You're going to wear this shoe for 5 to 10 going to wear this shoe for 5 to 10 going to wear this shoe for 5 to 10 minutes a day. You're going to see how minutes a day. You're going to see how minutes a day. You're going to see how you feel that night. You're going to see you feel that night. You're going to see you feel that night. You're going to see how you feel the next morning. If things how you feel the next morning. If things how you feel the next morning. If things are good, are good, are good, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> you slowly add time. But if you wake up >> you slowly add time. But if you wake up >> you slowly add time. But if you wake up the next morning and you're like, "Hm, the next morning and you're like, "Hm, the next morning and you're like, "Hm, my heels a little sore." my heels a little sore." my heels a little sore." >> You wait. >> You wait. >> You wait. >> You wait. >> You wait. >> You wait. >> And it's not the shoes fault. That was >> And it's not the shoes fault. That was >> And it's not the shoes fault. That was one of the, you know, with the pandemic, one of the, you know, with the pandemic, one of the, you know, with the pandemic, I saw all these articles come out. You I saw all these articles come out. You I saw all these articles come out. You know, people are don't walk around know, people are don't walk around know, people are don't walk around barefoot at home because you're going to barefoot at home because you're going to barefoot at home because you're going to damage your foot. And I'm I'm going we damage your foot. And I'm I'm going we damage your foot. And I'm I'm going we have the message wrong. have the message wrong. have the message wrong. >> The message is wrong. That that's the >> The message is wrong. That that's the >> The message is wrong. That that's the most ridiculous statement. I mean, if most ridiculous statement. I mean, if most ridiculous statement. I mean, if you just you just you just >> look at our history as humans, >> look at our history as humans, >> look at our history as humans, >> we have walked around barefoot for the >> we have walked around barefoot for the >> we have walked around barefoot for the vast majority of it. It is ridiculous to vast majority of it. It is ridiculous to vast majority of it. It is ridiculous to think that walking around barefoot at think that walking around barefoot at think that walking around barefoot at home for most of us is damaging our home for most of us is damaging our home for most of us is damaging our feet. It's It's kind of messed up. feet. It's It's kind of messed up. feet. It's It's kind of messed up. >> It is. I get it. >> It is. I get it. >> It is. I get it. >> I think the biggest argument that people >> I think the biggest argument that people >> I think the biggest argument that people will say is, "Well, we weren't designed will say is, "Well, we weren't designed will say is, "Well, we weren't designed to walk on man-made surfaces." to walk on man-made surfaces." to walk on man-made surfaces." >> Okay. And what do you say to that? >> Okay. And what do you say to that? >> Okay. And what do you say to that? >> And so, okay. So if that is the >> And so, okay. So if that is the >> And so, okay. So if that is the argument, you can still put your foot argument, you can still put your foot argument, you can still put your foot into its functional position here. Enter into its functional position here. Enter into its functional position here. Enter functional footwear. functional footwear. functional footwear. >> Okay. So minimal footwear is maybe what >> Okay. So minimal footwear is maybe what >> Okay. So minimal footwear is maybe what is that the ultimate goal would you say is that the ultimate goal would you say is that the ultimate goal would you say for people? But is functional footwear a for people? But is functional footwear a for people? But is functional footwear a bridge? bridge? bridge? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I think more people will >> I think more people will >> I think more people will live in the functional footwear kind of live in the functional footwear kind of live in the functional footwear kind of area. area. area. Ideally, as their foot strengthens and Ideally, as their foot strengthens and Ideally, as their foot strengthens and they can transition, you can move into a they can transition, you can move into a they can transition, you can move into a shoe that is going to require more out shoe that is going to require more out shoe that is going to require more out of you. But the functional footwear is of you. But the functional footwear is of you. But the functional footwear is where I take everybody. where I take everybody. where I take everybody. >> Is that like a transition? >> Is that like a transition? >> Is that like a transition? >> Yes. It's wide toe box, >> Yes. It's wide toe box, >> Yes. It's wide toe box, >> but that's the same as minimal, isn't >> but that's the same as minimal, isn't >> but that's the same as minimal, isn't it? it? it? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you still got wide toe box. >> Okay. So, you still got wide toe box. >> Okay. So, you still got wide toe box. >> That's my non-negotiable. >> That's my non-negotiable. >> That's my non-negotiable. >> Okay. So, that's in both minimal and >> Okay. So, that's in both minimal and >> Okay. So, that's in both minimal and functional. You have a wide toe box. functional. You have a wide toe box. functional. You have a wide toe box. >> That's right. You don't change this. >> That's right. You don't change this. >> That's right. You don't change this. >> Yeah. So, okay. Put another way, don't >> Yeah. So, okay. Put another way, don't >> Yeah. So, okay. Put another way, don't buy a shoe that's going to deform the buy a shoe that's going to deform the buy a shoe that's going to deform the the front of your foot. the front of your foot. the front of your foot. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. I mean, that should >> Yes. I mean, that should >> Yes. I mean, that should >> it's a kind of basic when you say like >> it's a kind of basic when you say like >> it's a kind of basic when you say like that, it's like why on earth would you that, it's like why on earth would you that, it's like why on earth would you compress the front of your feet? Okay. compress the front of your feet? Okay. compress the front of your feet? Okay. So, wide toe box. So, wide toe box. So, wide toe box. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Then what's next in this functional >> Then what's next in this functional >> Then what's next in this functional foot? foot? foot? >> We talk about the heel to toe drop. >> We talk about the heel to toe drop. >> We talk about the heel to toe drop. Functional is low to zero drop. So 6 mm Functional is low to zero drop. So 6 mm Functional is low to zero drop. So 6 mm or below. And that's with research or below. And that's with research or below. And that's with research saying the we've done the studies and saying the we've done the studies and saying the we've done the studies and low to zero drop is 6 mm to zero. low to zero drop is 6 mm to zero. low to zero drop is 6 mm to zero. >> Okay. So minimal footwear is zero drop >> Okay. So minimal footwear is zero drop >> Okay. So minimal footwear is zero drop where the the heel and the toe are on where the the heel and the toe are on where the the heel and the toe are on the same level the same level the same level >> and you're saying when you're >> and you're saying when you're >> and you're saying when you're transitioning perhaps go to a functional transitioning perhaps go to a functional transitioning perhaps go to a functional shoe where shoe where shoe where >> there is a drop but it's just not very >> there is a drop but it's just not very >> there is a drop but it's just not very much. much. much. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. Especially if someone has had >> Okay. Especially if someone has had >> Okay. Especially if someone has had plantar fasciopathy or heel pain or they plantar fasciopathy or heel pain or they plantar fasciopathy or heel pain or they have a history of Achilles have a history of Achilles have a history of Achilles tendonopathies where they have some type tendonopathies where they have some type tendonopathies where they have some type of issue where we know we have to work of issue where we know we have to work of issue where we know we have to work on strength and mobility. You don't want on strength and mobility. You don't want on strength and mobility. You don't want to take them down too quickly. So it's to take them down too quickly. So it's to take them down too quickly. So it's hey let's try this let's try this zone. hey let's try this let's try this zone. hey let's try this let's try this zone. >> And then the functional footwear is >> And then the functional footwear is >> And then the functional footwear is where you can play with variations of where you can play with variations of where you can play with variations of stack height. So that's how much cushion stack height. So that's how much cushion stack height. So that's how much cushion is under the sole of the foot. So in is under the sole of the foot. So in is under the sole of the foot. So in functional footwear you still will have functional footwear you still will have functional footwear you still will have some cushioning some cushioning some cushioning maybe just not as much as you're used maybe just not as much as you're used maybe just not as much as you're used to. to. to. >> Yes. So a lot of the footwear there's >> Yes. So a lot of the footwear there's >> Yes. So a lot of the footwear there's companies now where you'll see stack companies now where you'll see stack companies now where you'll see stack heights of 55 mm. I mean it is gigantic. heights of 55 mm. I mean it is gigantic. heights of 55 mm. I mean it is gigantic. That is a a significant cushion under That is a a significant cushion under That is a a significant cushion under your foot. So these these brands that your foot. So these these brands that your foot. So these these brands that are aware of the anatomy of the foot. are aware of the anatomy of the foot. are aware of the anatomy of the foot. So, respecting the toe box, dropping the So, respecting the toe box, dropping the So, respecting the toe box, dropping the heel a little bit, but still giving heel a little bit, but still giving heel a little bit, but still giving people some of that cushion that they people some of that cushion that they people some of that cushion that they often seek because their foot hasn't often seek because their foot hasn't often seek because their foot hasn't felt the ground in decades. felt the ground in decades. felt the ground in decades. That's a nice lane to sit in as they That's a nice lane to sit in as they That's a nice lane to sit in as they start to transition. start to transition. start to transition. >> Yeah. What are some of the brands that >> Yeah. What are some of the brands that >> Yeah. What are some of the brands that sit in the more functional footwear sit in the more functional footwear sit in the more functional footwear category as opposed to minimalist? category as opposed to minimalist? category as opposed to minimalist? >> There's not many. Ultra running. >> There's not many. Ultra running. >> There's not many. Ultra running. >> Is that alt? >> Is that alt? >> Is that alt? >> Alt. Topo Athletic. >> Alt. Topo Athletic. >> Alt. Topo Athletic. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> notice is a newer brand, but there >> notice is a newer brand, but there >> notice is a newer brand, but there that's what I think happened here when that's what I think happened here when that's what I think happened here when this conversation of minimal footwear is this conversation of minimal footwear is this conversation of minimal footwear is not new. not new. not new. >> All right. In 2007, the Vbram Five >> All right. In 2007, the Vbram Five >> All right. In 2007, the Vbram Five Fingers, I mean, we were having these Fingers, I mean, we were having these Fingers, I mean, we were having these conversations um and people got real conversations um and people got real conversations um and people got real excited about it and they went from excited about it and they went from excited about it and they went from zero, they went from over here into zero, they went from over here into zero, they went from over here into minimal. minimal. minimal. And people were saying, "Well, I have, And people were saying, "Well, I have, And people were saying, "Well, I have, you know, my foot isn't ready for this." you know, my foot isn't ready for this." you know, my foot isn't ready for this." And they were saying, "My calf hurts or And they were saying, "My calf hurts or And they were saying, "My calf hurts or my foot hurts." And again, not the my foot hurts." And again, not the my foot hurts." And again, not the shoe's fault. The fact that we didn't shoe's fault. The fact that we didn't shoe's fault. The fact that we didn't build capacity, but this lane of build capacity, but this lane of build capacity, but this lane of functional footwear didn't really exist. functional footwear didn't really exist. functional footwear didn't really exist. So, people either said, "You're going to So, people either said, "You're going to So, people either said, "You're going to be in this real aggressive shoe or you be in this real aggressive shoe or you be in this real aggressive shoe or you have minimal." have minimal." have minimal." >> Got it. >> Got it. >> Got it. And so that's where I think this And so that's where I think this And so that's where I think this education and these brands are saying, education and these brands are saying, education and these brands are saying, "Hey, people do need this might be a "Hey, people do need this might be a "Hey, people do need this might be a lane for some people to to start in." lane for some people to to start in." lane for some people to to start in." Could Could Could >> Could we make the case, Courtney, or >> Could we make the case, Courtney, or >> Could we make the case, Courtney, or would you agree with this? Let's say we would you agree with this? Let's say we would you agree with this? Let's say we turned the clock back 150 years or even turned the clock back 150 years or even turned the clock back 150 years or even 200 years. We wouldn't need any of this 200 years. We wouldn't need any of this 200 years. We wouldn't need any of this stuff because our feet would just be stuff because our feet would just be stuff because our feet would just be stronger. Yes. But because we've been in stronger. Yes. But because we've been in stronger. Yes. But because we've been in inappropriate footwear as a society for inappropriate footwear as a society for inappropriate footwear as a society for so long now, for some of us, if we want so long now, for some of us, if we want so long now, for some of us, if we want to do the work of restoring our foot to do the work of restoring our foot to do the work of restoring our foot health, we need to gradually transition. health, we need to gradually transition. health, we need to gradually transition. I mean, some people can clearly go to I mean, some people can clearly go to I mean, some people can clearly go to minimal footwear straight away, and if minimal footwear straight away, and if minimal footwear straight away, and if they're if they're careful, they're if they're careful, they're if they're careful, >> they have no problems. But for some >> they have no problems. But for some >> they have no problems. But for some people, you're saying you might be people, you're saying you might be people, you're saying you might be better off going to this halfway house better off going to this halfway house better off going to this halfway house first. first. first. >> And you know, we're talking decades >> And you know, we're talking decades >> And you know, we're talking decades decades of people's feet. um getting decades of people's feet. um getting decades of people's feet. um getting weak. This doesn't happen overnight. So weak. This doesn't happen overnight. So weak. This doesn't happen overnight. So that second category that you mentioned that second category that you mentioned that second category that you mentioned with people that don't have any symptoms with people that don't have any symptoms with people that don't have any symptoms or pain, I have plenty of patients that or pain, I have plenty of patients that or pain, I have plenty of patients that can walk around in cities in minimal can walk around in cities in minimal can walk around in cities in minimal footwear with no problem. footwear with no problem. footwear with no problem. But that third category, But that third category, But that third category, and I sit in that third category because and I sit in that third category because and I sit in that third category because that's how I got into all of this. I that's how I got into all of this. I that's how I got into all of this. I have bunyions. I've had nuromomas. I've have bunyions. I've had nuromomas. I've have bunyions. I've had nuromomas. I've had all the things because my foot had all the things because my foot had all the things because my foot structure has changed due to me not structure has changed due to me not structure has changed due to me not paying attention. paying attention. paying attention. >> Can you tell us a little bit about your >> Can you tell us a little bit about your >> Can you tell us a little bit about your story? Because one of the things I found story? Because one of the things I found story? Because one of the things I found >> really interesting in the book is that >> really interesting in the book is that >> really interesting in the book is that you seemed to understand the benefits of you seemed to understand the benefits of you seemed to understand the benefits of walking for you quite early on. And from walking for you quite early on. And from walking for you quite early on. And from what I remember, you used to walk what I remember, you used to walk what I remember, you used to walk regularly because you knew it helped you regularly because you knew it helped you regularly because you knew it helped you until you started to get problems in until you started to get problems in until you started to get problems in your 20s, I think. your 20s, I think. your 20s, I think. >> Yes. Movement has always been um my >> Yes. Movement has always been um my >> Yes. Movement has always been um my therapy. I didn't realize it at the time therapy. I didn't realize it at the time therapy. I didn't realize it at the time when I was growing up, but it was my, when I was growing up, but it was my, when I was growing up, but it was my, you know, through some pretty dark you know, through some pretty dark you know, through some pretty dark times. I didn't quite know what I was times. I didn't quite know what I was times. I didn't quite know what I was doing, why it was so beneficial for me. doing, why it was so beneficial for me. doing, why it was so beneficial for me. But But But >> anytime that something was going on, I'd >> anytime that something was going on, I'd >> anytime that something was going on, I'd just walk and I'd keep walking just walk and I'd keep walking just walk and I'd keep walking >> until I felt better. >> until I felt better. >> until I felt better. >> And I grew up as a ballet dancer in >> And I grew up as a ballet dancer in >> And I grew up as a ballet dancer in point shoes. And then I transitioned point shoes. And then I transitioned point shoes. And then I transitioned into the triathlon world and my feet into the triathlon world and my feet into the triathlon world and my feet were just perpetually shoved into were just perpetually shoved into were just perpetually shoved into footwear that was restricting its motion footwear that was restricting its motion footwear that was restricting its motion and I developed bunyions and nuromomas. and I developed bunyions and nuromomas. and I developed bunyions and nuromomas. I've had stress fractures. I've pretty I've had stress fractures. I've pretty I've had stress fractures. I've pretty much had all the diagnoses that my much had all the diagnoses that my much had all the diagnoses that my patients come to see me with. And patients come to see me with. And patients come to see me with. And >> which is of course why you do what you >> which is of course why you do what you >> which is of course why you do what you do today, right? do today, right? do today, right? And And And walking became very difficult. walking became very difficult. walking became very difficult. And that was very hard for me because I And that was very hard for me because I And that was very hard for me because I didn't have any other coping strategies didn't have any other coping strategies didn't have any other coping strategies at the time. I was young. I'm like, at the time. I was young. I'm like, at the time. I was young. I'm like, what? I can't walk. And you start to see what? I can't walk. And you start to see what? I can't walk. And you start to see this cycle of what happens. And you see this cycle of what happens. And you see this cycle of what happens. And you see how depression and anxiety can set in how depression and anxiety can set in how depression and anxiety can set in very quickly when you can't move your very quickly when you can't move your very quickly when you can't move your body. body. body. And so as a personal quest, I just And so as a personal quest, I just And so as a personal quest, I just became I was like, I have to I have to became I was like, I have to I have to became I was like, I have to I have to get a hold of this. And so that's what get a hold of this. And so that's what get a hold of this. And so that's what started all of this. So to get back to started all of this. So to get back to started all of this. So to get back to that footwear conversation, that footwear conversation, that footwear conversation, I because I have structural change in my I because I have structural change in my I because I have structural change in my foot now, albeit it is much better. foot now, albeit it is much better. foot now, albeit it is much better. There are no symptoms there. There are no symptoms there. There are no symptoms there. 80% of the time I'm in minimal footwear. 80% of the time I'm in minimal footwear. 80% of the time I'm in minimal footwear. But I know But I know But I know I have that bunion. If I'm going to be I have that bunion. If I'm going to be I have that bunion. If I'm going to be standing on concrete, if I go to a standing on concrete, if I go to a standing on concrete, if I go to a concert and I'm not walking per se, I'm concert and I'm not walking per se, I'm concert and I'm not walking per se, I'm just standing still. just standing still. just standing still. >> I know I still want my foot in that wide >> I know I still want my foot in that wide >> I know I still want my foot in that wide toe box. Non-negotiable. toe box. Non-negotiable. toe box. Non-negotiable. I'm okay with my heel being and toe I'm okay with my heel being and toe I'm okay with my heel being and toe being in the same plane. But if I'm being in the same plane. But if I'm being in the same plane. But if I'm standing in one place, standing in one place, standing in one place, I want a little stack height. And that's I want a little stack height. And that's I want a little stack height. And that's where I live in the functional category. where I live in the functional category. where I live in the functional category. So I have this shoe spectrum So I have this shoe spectrum So I have this shoe spectrum and I think that's important for people. and I think that's important for people. and I think that's important for people. We are not saying 100% of the time you We are not saying 100% of the time you We are not saying 100% of the time you need to be doing this. We're not going need to be doing this. We're not going need to be doing this. We're not going to, you know, that's not how we should to, you know, that's not how we should to, you know, that's not how we should be educating. be educating. be educating. >> No, >> No, >> No, >> it's live along the spectrum. >> it's live along the spectrum. >> it's live along the spectrum. Dance over here for a little bit. This Dance over here for a little bit. This Dance over here for a little bit. This is where you're going to get stronger. is where you're going to get stronger. is where you're going to get stronger. But it's okay. You can live here. Keep But it's okay. You can live here. Keep But it's okay. You can live here. Keep your foot in its functional position. your foot in its functional position. your foot in its functional position. But where you can't live is in footwear But where you can't live is in footwear But where you can't live is in footwear 100% of the time that is restricting 100% of the time that is restricting 100% of the time that is restricting your function and interfering with your your function and interfering with your your function and interfering with your sensory um acuity that's going to affect sensory um acuity that's going to affect sensory um acuity that's going to affect your longevity. your longevity. your longevity. One of the biggest changes I've made One of the biggest changes I've made One of the biggest changes I've made over the past few months is to start over the past few months is to start over the past few months is to start each day using the way and I absolutely each day using the way and I absolutely each day using the way and I absolutely love it. Meditation has so many benefits love it. Meditation has so many benefits love it. Meditation has so many benefits for our physical health and our mental for our physical health and our mental for our physical health and our mental well-being, but only if we actually do well-being, but only if we actually do well-being, but only if we actually do it. And that's one of the reasons I love it. And that's one of the reasons I love it. And that's one of the reasons I love this app so much. It makes it really this app so much. It makes it really this app so much. 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That is a fantastic offer. What have you got to lose? To take What have you got to lose? To take What have you got to lose? To take advantage, either scan the QR code on advantage, either scan the QR code on advantage, either scan the QR code on screen or go to the wayapp.comlive more and begin your journey towards more and begin your journey towards peace, calm, and purpose. Could we take peace, calm, and purpose. Could we take peace, calm, and purpose. Could we take that principle let's say for a woman? If that principle let's say for a woman? If that principle let's say for a woman? If a woman, let's say, lived a woman, let's say, lived a woman, let's say, lived 90% of their lives in good footwear, but 90% of their lives in good footwear, but 90% of their lives in good footwear, but on a Saturday night uh to go out, they on a Saturday night uh to go out, they on a Saturday night uh to go out, they wore high heels because they like to, wore high heels because they like to, wore high heels because they like to, right? They like the way they look in right? They like the way they look in right? They like the way they look in it. You know, I'm I'm not sort of it. You know, I'm I'm not sort of it. You know, I'm I'm not sort of criticizing that at all. I'm saying a criticizing that at all. I'm saying a criticizing that at all. I'm saying a good strong functional foot I'm guessing good strong functional foot I'm guessing good strong functional foot I'm guessing can tolerate being in different kinds of can tolerate being in different kinds of can tolerate being in different kinds of footwear now and again if the vast footwear now and again if the vast footwear now and again if the vast majority of the time you're in the majority of the time you're in the majority of the time you're in the correct footwear. correct footwear. correct footwear. >> Yes. I tell women go for it if you want >> Yes. I tell women go for it if you want >> Yes. I tell women go for it if you want to if that's what makes you feel good. to if that's what makes you feel good. to if that's what makes you feel good. That's powerful. That's powerful. That's powerful. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Just when you get home in the book we >> Just when you get home in the book we >> Just when you get home in the book we have a high heel rehab. have a high heel rehab. have a high heel rehab. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you're going to wear high heels do >> If you're going to wear high heels do >> If you're going to wear high heels do these things. You know, I used to still these things. You know, I used to still these things. You know, I used to still have my occasional high heels in my uh have my occasional high heels in my uh have my occasional high heels in my uh wardrobe, but about six years ago, I wardrobe, but about six years ago, I wardrobe, but about six years ago, I also was going to a wedding and my also was going to a wedding and my also was going to a wedding and my fiance, I put on my heels and I sat fiance, I put on my heels and I sat fiance, I put on my heels and I sat there for a second and the look on my there for a second and the look on my there for a second and the look on my face, he looked at me, he goes, "Please face, he looked at me, he goes, "Please face, he looked at me, he goes, "Please take them off cuz you're going to take them off cuz you're going to take them off cuz you're going to complain all night long." And from that complain all night long." And from that complain all night long." And from that moment on, I have not worn a pair of moment on, I have not worn a pair of moment on, I have not worn a pair of heels. Cuz the second I put my foot in heels. Cuz the second I put my foot in heels. Cuz the second I put my foot in there, I'm just like, "Oh no." So, there, I'm just like, "Oh no." So, there, I'm just like, "Oh no." So, >> what did you wear? I wear sandals. >> what did you wear? I wear sandals. >> what did you wear? I wear sandals. Um, Um, Um, >> is that hard like if you're going >> is that hard like if you're going >> is that hard like if you're going somewhere where you have to dress up somewhere where you have to dress up somewhere where you have to dress up like do you find it difficult to go like do you find it difficult to go like do you find it difficult to go Yeah. but that because there is a sort Yeah. but that because there is a sort Yeah. but that because there is a sort of I won't say an expectation but there of I won't say an expectation but there of I won't say an expectation but there is a sort of thing you wear at certain is a sort of thing you wear at certain is a sort of thing you wear at certain events, right? events, right? events, right? >> Yes. You know, it's such a good >> Yes. You know, it's such a good >> Yes. You know, it's such a good question. Um, question. Um, question. Um, first when I first started doing this, first when I first started doing this, first when I first started doing this, there were maybe a handful of companies there were maybe a handful of companies there were maybe a handful of companies that made that made that made um minimal footwear or appropriate um minimal footwear or appropriate um minimal footwear or appropriate footwear. Now there's many. Yeah. So the footwear. Now there's many. Yeah. So the footwear. Now there's many. Yeah. So the options are much greater. But I think options are much greater. But I think options are much greater. But I think about this when we get dressed, we want about this when we get dressed, we want about this when we get dressed, we want to feel confident, to feel confident, to feel confident, >> right? That's the goal. We want to feel >> right? That's the goal. We want to feel >> right? That's the goal. We want to feel confident and comfortable in our skin. confident and comfortable in our skin. confident and comfortable in our skin. For me, being able to walk with For me, being able to walk with For me, being able to walk with confidence and feel strong and feel confidence and feel strong and feel confidence and feel strong and feel stable. A lot of that comes from what stable. A lot of that comes from what stable. A lot of that comes from what how I'm interacting with the ground. how I'm interacting with the ground. how I'm interacting with the ground. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> So, >> So, I feel like I'm walking more confidently I feel like I'm walking more confidently I feel like I'm walking more confidently and I look more confidently when I'm and I look more confidently when I'm and I look more confidently when I'm when I have my foot on the ground. when I have my foot on the ground. when I have my foot on the ground. >> Yeah. Could someone make the case that >> Yeah. Could someone make the case that >> Yeah. Could someone make the case that if you have if you have if you have well functioning feet? Let's say you you well functioning feet? Let's say you you well functioning feet? Let's say you you had the time, knowledge and discipline had the time, knowledge and discipline had the time, knowledge and discipline to spend 30 minutes on your feet each to spend 30 minutes on your feet each to spend 30 minutes on your feet each day. I I expect very few people day. I I expect very few people day. I I expect very few people listening to this have done that or will listening to this have done that or will listening to this have done that or will do that. But let's just do a thought do that. But let's just do a thought do that. But let's just do a thought experiment for a minute. experiment for a minute. experiment for a minute. If all the tests that you write about in If all the tests that you write about in If all the tests that you write about in the book, you know, the leanto- wall the book, you know, the leanto- wall the book, you know, the leanto- wall test, the credit card toe strength, test, the credit card toe strength, test, the credit card toe strength, single leg calf raise, single leg single leg calf raise, single leg single leg calf raise, single leg balance test, right? Let's say you balance test, right? Let's say you balance test, right? Let's say you worked on all these things and your worked on all these things and your worked on all these things and your feet, your toes, your calf muscles feet, your toes, your calf muscles feet, your toes, your calf muscles >> were functional and strong. If that was the case, If that was the case, could you argue that you can you can could you argue that you can you can could you argue that you can you can kind of wear whatever footwear you want kind of wear whatever footwear you want kind of wear whatever footwear you want because it's really your feet function because it's really your feet function because it's really your feet function that determine the vast majority of the that determine the vast majority of the that determine the vast majority of the outcome and you know cuz because I guess outcome and you know cuz because I guess outcome and you know cuz because I guess what I'm trying to get at you could for what I'm trying to get at you could for what I'm trying to get at you could for example example example someone could listen to this and go all someone could listen to this and go all someone could listen to this and go all right you know what I've heard wrong and right you know what I've heard wrong and right you know what I've heard wrong and bang on about this for a number of years bang on about this for a number of years bang on about this for a number of years but you know I wasn't sure but but you know I wasn't sure but but you know I wasn't sure but Courtney's persuading me right I'm going Courtney's persuading me right I'm going Courtney's persuading me right I'm going to I'm going to get into this and they to I'm going to get into this and they to I'm going to get into this and they may go to a functional shoe or a minimal may go to a functional shoe or a minimal may go to a functional shoe or a minimal shoe, shoe, shoe, but if their feet are not working well, but if their feet are not working well, but if their feet are not working well, it's not necessarily going to correct it's not necessarily going to correct it's not necessarily going to correct that by going into a different shoe, is that by going into a different shoe, is that by going into a different shoe, is it? They could still have issues with it? They could still have issues with it? They could still have issues with the way their feet interact with the the way their feet interact with the the way their feet interact with the ground unless they do some of the rehab ground unless they do some of the rehab ground unless they do some of the rehab work. Do you see what I'm saying? work. Do you see what I'm saying? work. Do you see what I'm saying? >> Yes. The priority is the foot itself. >> Yes. The priority is the foot itself. >> Yes. The priority is the foot itself. It's it's what you put into the shoe. It's it's what you put into the shoe. It's it's what you put into the shoe. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> You have to pay attention to that. >> You have to pay attention to that. >> You have to pay attention to that. the the shoe is it's it's icing on the the the shoe is it's it's icing on the the the shoe is it's it's icing on the cake. Like I say to my patients, it's cake. Like I say to my patients, it's cake. Like I say to my patients, it's icing on the cake. Pay attention to what icing on the cake. Pay attention to what icing on the cake. Pay attention to what you're putting in the shoe. you're putting in the shoe. you're putting in the shoe. >> So, Kip Chigi with excellent foot >> So, Kip Chigi with excellent foot >> So, Kip Chigi with excellent foot function and strong feet from childhood. function and strong feet from childhood. function and strong feet from childhood. >> Well, he'll probably be all right in >> Well, he'll probably be all right in >> Well, he'll probably be all right in anything. It it's I was just going to anything. It it's I was just going to anything. It it's I was just going to actually use that example because my in actually use that example because my in actually use that example because my in my runners my runners my runners >> if they want to run on race day in their >> if they want to run on race day in their >> if they want to run on race day in their super shoes where they get their running super shoes where they get their running super shoes where they get their running economy fine. economy fine. economy fine. I'm not going to win some I'm not going I'm not going to win some I'm not going I'm not going to win some I'm not going to win all those battles. But when to win all those battles. But when to win all those battles. But when they're training they're training they're training and they're practicing and they're and they're practicing and they're and they're practicing and they're trying to become the most efficient trying to become the most efficient trying to become the most efficient runner and the strongest runner, you're runner and the strongest runner, you're runner and the strongest runner, you're not going to be training in your super not going to be training in your super not going to be training in your super shoes. I want your foot to get strong. I shoes. I want your foot to get strong. I shoes. I want your foot to get strong. I want your ankle to get strong. So again, want your ankle to get strong. So again, want your ankle to get strong. So again, having this shoe spectrum having this shoe spectrum having this shoe spectrum work in an environment that's a little work in an environment that's a little work in an environment that's a little more challenging so that when you go and more challenging so that when you go and more challenging so that when you go and put your foot into your super shoe, now put your foot into your super shoe, now put your foot into your super shoe, now you have this this strong resilient you have this this strong resilient you have this this strong resilient system. Maybe your running gate system. Maybe your running gate system. Maybe your running gate mechanics are better. So those are all mechanics are better. So those are all mechanics are better. So those are all the things I like to think about. It's the things I like to think about. It's the things I like to think about. It's you can't cheat the system forever you can't cheat the system forever you can't cheat the system forever without thinking that there will not be without thinking that there will not be without thinking that there will not be a consequence. a consequence. a consequence. What about these cultural ideas that we What about these cultural ideas that we What about these cultural ideas that we pick up, right? So, take me for example. pick up, right? So, take me for example. pick up, right? So, take me for example. So, So, So, you know, you don't know much about my you know, you don't know much about my you know, you don't know much about my history, but I used to have really, history, but I used to have really, history, but I used to have really, really bad back pain in my 20ies. Had really bad back pain in my 20ies. Had really bad back pain in my 20ies. Had time off work, couldn't lift my baby boy time off work, couldn't lift my baby boy time off work, couldn't lift my baby boy when he was born, you know, really when he was born, you know, really when he was born, you know, really affected my quality of life in a massive affected my quality of life in a massive affected my quality of life in a massive way. Now I've subsequently realized way. Now I've subsequently realized way. Now I've subsequently realized there were multiple contributing factors there were multiple contributing factors there were multiple contributing factors to my back pain including emotional to my back pain including emotional to my back pain including emotional things about you know having to carry things about you know having to carry things about you know having to carry the weight of my father was very sick the weight of my father was very sick the weight of my father was very sick and you know I was the person in the and you know I was the person in the and you know I was the person in the family is I guess the medical son who family is I guess the medical son who family is I guess the medical son who was kind of semi incharge of all that was kind of semi incharge of all that was kind of semi incharge of all that care. Um, but there was also a physical care. Um, but there was also a physical care. Um, but there was also a physical component, right? Because I think with component, right? Because I think with component, right? Because I think with chronic pain, you know, this stuff's chronic pain, you know, this stuff's chronic pain, you know, this stuff's multiffactorial. There was multiffactorial. There was multiffactorial. There was >> it ain't just one thing. But on my >> it ain't just one thing. But on my >> it ain't just one thing. But on my journey to being completely painfree, journey to being completely painfree, journey to being completely painfree, which I've been for many years now, which I've been for many years now, which I've been for many years now, there was this amazing guy, Gary Ward, there was this amazing guy, Gary Ward, there was this amazing guy, Gary Ward, who's, you know, you know, really good who's, you know, you know, really good who's, you know, you know, really good friend of mine. friend of mine. friend of mine. >> I found Do you know Gary? >> I found Do you know Gary? >> I found Do you know Gary? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I basically I found this guy. He >> Yeah. I basically I found this guy. He >> Yeah. I basically I found this guy. He was like, I think he's going to be able was like, I think he's going to be able was like, I think he's going to be able to help me. to help me. to help me. >> Yeah. And I went down and I studied I >> Yeah. And I went down and I studied I >> Yeah. And I went down and I studied I took his anatomy emotion courses. I took his anatomy emotion courses. I took his anatomy emotion courses. I think it was the first doctor to do his think it was the first doctor to do his think it was the first doctor to do his courses and courses and courses and >> it's a great course. >> it's a great course. >> it's a great course. >> It's brilliant. And Gary said to me, >> It's brilliant. And Gary said to me, >> It's brilliant. And Gary said to me, this is back probably in 2011, 2012. this is back probably in 2011, 2012. this is back probably in 2011, 2012. >> He's like, "Your right foot is not >> He's like, "Your right foot is not >> He's like, "Your right foot is not working properly." Or, you know, he working properly." Or, you know, he working properly." Or, you know, he didn't exactly say that, but that's my didn't exactly say that, but that's my didn't exactly say that, but that's my colloquial way of trying to describe it. colloquial way of trying to describe it. colloquial way of trying to describe it. >> And he gave me some foot exercise. I >> And he gave me some foot exercise. I >> And he gave me some foot exercise. I said, "Oh, Gary, I've got a flat foot." said, "Oh, Gary, I've got a flat foot." said, "Oh, Gary, I've got a flat foot." He said, "No, no, wrong. Listen, your He said, "No, no, wrong. Listen, your He said, "No, no, wrong. Listen, your foot is stuck in pronation. Pronation's foot is stuck in pronation. Pronation's foot is stuck in pronation. Pronation's not a problem, but we need to help it not a problem, but we need to help it not a problem, but we need to help it get out of pronation. get out of pronation. get out of pronation. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And so he gave me a couple of exercises >> And so he gave me a couple of exercises >> And so he gave me a couple of exercises for my right foot. for my right foot. for my right foot. >> I remember doing them. I was walking. I >> I remember doing them. I was walking. I >> I remember doing them. I was walking. I was like, where's my back pain gone? was like, where's my back pain gone? was like, where's my back pain gone? Like Like Like >> it was the first time that I was like, >> it was the first time that I was like, >> it was the first time that I was like, "Wait a minute. "Wait a minute. "Wait a minute. How my right foot is functioning is How my right foot is functioning is How my right foot is functioning is contributing contributing contributing to my back." to my back." to my back." >> Yes. So that was kind of it was really >> Yes. So that was kind of it was really >> Yes. So that was kind of it was really interesting for me and and that in many interesting for me and and that in many interesting for me and and that in many ways started off my journey with oh my ways started off my journey with oh my ways started off my journey with oh my feet is is really important. As I said feet is is really important. As I said feet is is really important. As I said to you when you came to my house this to you when you came to my house this to you when you came to my house this morning morning morning >> I I said to you 12 years I've been >> I I said to you 12 years I've been >> I I said to you 12 years I've been wearing Vivas but I think it's longer wearing Vivas but I think it's longer wearing Vivas but I think it's longer cuz my first time I bought them was in I cuz my first time I bought them was in I cuz my first time I bought them was in I think it was October 2012 when I made my think it was October 2012 when I made my think it was October 2012 when I made my first Vivo Barefoot purchase. So what first Vivo Barefoot purchase. So what first Vivo Barefoot purchase. So what we're looking at we're looking at we're looking at >> maybe 13 and a half years now. Yeah, >> maybe 13 and a half years now. Yeah, >> maybe 13 and a half years now. Yeah, people will say, "Yeah, okay walking, people will say, "Yeah, okay walking, people will say, "Yeah, okay walking, maybe okay for running if you've maybe okay for running if you've maybe okay for running if you've trained, but for lateral movements, you trained, but for lateral movements, you trained, but for lateral movements, you need supportive footwear." need supportive footwear." need supportive footwear." >> Well, here's the thing. I took up paddle >> Well, here's the thing. I took up paddle >> Well, here's the thing. I took up paddle about 6 months ago with my son. about 6 months ago with my son. about 6 months ago with my son. >> Do you know paddle sport? >> Do you know paddle sport? >> Do you know paddle sport? >> So, quite a lot of lateral movement. I >> So, quite a lot of lateral movement. I >> So, quite a lot of lateral movement. I wear my Vivos playing paddle. I have no wear my Vivos playing paddle. I have no wear my Vivos playing paddle. I have no problems at all. So, we have these and problems at all. So, we have these and problems at all. So, we have these and again, I'm used to wearing uh minimal again, I'm used to wearing uh minimal again, I'm used to wearing uh minimal shoes. I was going to say bare thought shoes. I was going to say bare thought shoes. I was going to say bare thought but I like your definition of functional but I like your definition of functional but I like your definition of functional and minimal. So I will say minimal and minimal. So I will say minimal and minimal. So I will say minimal shoes. shoes. shoes. What's your take on that? I maybe maybe What's your take on that? I maybe maybe What's your take on that? I maybe maybe I can manage it. Maybe some people who I can manage it. Maybe some people who I can manage it. Maybe some people who are not used it will need some lateral are not used it will need some lateral are not used it will need some lateral support. But what's your take on that? support. But what's your take on that? support. But what's your take on that? Because the belief system is yeah but Because the belief system is yeah but Because the belief system is yeah but these modern sports you need lateral these modern sports you need lateral these modern sports you need lateral supports. supports. supports. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> what would you say? >> what would you say? >> what would you say? >> Again going back to if we just think >> Again going back to if we just think >> Again going back to if we just think about the foot like we think about the about the foot like we think about the about the foot like we think about the rest of the body. If I was going to rest of the body. If I was going to rest of the body. If I was going to train my shoulder train my shoulder train my shoulder and strengthen my shoulder, would I only and strengthen my shoulder, would I only and strengthen my shoulder, would I only train it in flexion or extension? train it in flexion or extension? train it in flexion or extension? Wouldn't I want to train it in internal Wouldn't I want to train it in internal Wouldn't I want to train it in internal rotation and external rotation rotation and external rotation rotation and external rotation >> and abduction and adduction? >> and abduction and adduction? >> and abduction and adduction? So when we talk about the foot, one of So when we talk about the foot, one of So when we talk about the foot, one of the foot's most incredible capabilities the foot's most incredible capabilities the foot's most incredible capabilities is it is its ability to invert and ever, is it is its ability to invert and ever, is it is its ability to invert and ever, which is this motion. So the foot going which is this motion. So the foot going which is this motion. So the foot going in and then it going out, the foot moves in and then it going out, the foot moves in and then it going out, the foot moves in all these different planes of motion. in all these different planes of motion. in all these different planes of motion. So rather than So rather than So rather than avoid these movements, we train into avoid these movements, we train into avoid these movements, we train into them. We don't say, "Hey, your foot's them. We don't say, "Hey, your foot's them. We don't say, "Hey, your foot's flat. We need to avoid pronation. We flat. We need to avoid pronation. We flat. We need to avoid pronation. We want to find pronation. We want to get want to find pronation. We want to get want to find pronation. We want to get you to control pronation. You've you to control pronation. You've you to control pronation. You've sprained your ankle. That doesn't mean sprained your ankle. That doesn't mean sprained your ankle. That doesn't mean go get a brace and never allow your go get a brace and never allow your go get a brace and never allow your ankle to go into inversion again. That's ankle to go into inversion again. That's ankle to go into inversion again. That's life. That's environment. You have to life. That's environment. You have to life. That's environment. You have to train the brain to see inversion again. train the brain to see inversion again. train the brain to see inversion again. So I am a very big proponent of training So I am a very big proponent of training So I am a very big proponent of training the foot especially into inversion and the foot especially into inversion and the foot especially into inversion and eversion or lateral motions. I think eversion or lateral motions. I think eversion or lateral motions. I think that's very important. So, so are you that's very important. So, so are you that's very important. So, so are you saying that obviously I've chosen to so saying that obviously I've chosen to so saying that obviously I've chosen to so I I think I I think it's the Viv I think I I think I I think it's the Viv I think I I think I I think it's the Viv I think it's the Vivo Barefoot Motus that I use it's the Vivo Barefoot Motus that I use it's the Vivo Barefoot Motus that I use when I play paddle but could we argue that well listen when but could we argue that well listen when I'm doing my foot work away from the I'm doing my foot work away from the I'm doing my foot work away from the paddle courts I'm training all these paddle courts I'm training all these paddle courts I'm training all these movements but if I if I wanted to play movements but if I if I wanted to play movements but if I if I wanted to play in a traditional tennis shoe or I don't in a traditional tennis shoe or I don't in a traditional tennis shoe or I don't know I haven't seen paddle shoes but I'm know I haven't seen paddle shoes but I'm know I haven't seen paddle shoes but I'm guessing They're similar to tennis shoes guessing They're similar to tennis shoes guessing They're similar to tennis shoes with lateral support. That's fine as with lateral support. That's fine as with lateral support. That's fine as well, isn't it? well, isn't it? well, isn't it? >> It's f, you know, there's so much >> It's f, you know, there's so much >> It's f, you know, there's so much research coming out that the, you know, research coming out that the, you know, research coming out that the, you know, shoes don't cause the injuries and shoes don't cause the injuries and shoes don't cause the injuries and there's so many layers. there's so many layers. there's so many layers. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> there's so many layers. You can't blame >> there's so many layers. You can't blame >> there's so many layers. You can't blame footwear for injuries. That would be footwear for injuries. That would be footwear for injuries. That would be >> There's other factors. It could be >> There's other factors. It could be >> There's other factors. It could be sleep. It could be lack of strength. It sleep. It could be lack of strength. It sleep. It could be lack of strength. It could be you just want to give your body could be you just want to give your body could be you just want to give your body the the best chance you can. And that the the best chance you can. And that the the best chance you can. And that means creating resiliency, means creating resiliency, means creating resiliency, which means training your your foot like which means training your your foot like which means training your your foot like you would train the rest of your body. you would train the rest of your body. you would train the rest of your body. And then when you put it into a shoe And then when you put it into a shoe And then when you put it into a shoe where you say you're going to play where you say you're going to play where you say you're going to play tennis or you're going to do that, just tennis or you're going to do that, just tennis or you're going to do that, just play. Have a good time. play. Have a good time. play. Have a good time. >> Yeah. Put what you need to put on to go >> Yeah. Put what you need to put on to go >> Yeah. Put what you need to put on to go and have fun. and have fun. and have fun. >> That's right. Some people like playing >> That's right. Some people like playing >> That's right. Some people like playing in minimal footwear on a tennis court. in minimal footwear on a tennis court. in minimal footwear on a tennis court. Great. Great. Great. >> And some people don't. >> And some people don't. >> And some people don't. >> And some people don't. Also great. Yeah. >> And some people don't. Also great. Yeah. >> And some people don't. Also great. Yeah. >> But just pay attention to your foot. >> But just pay attention to your foot. >> But just pay attention to your foot. Make sure your foot is strong and Make sure your foot is strong and Make sure your foot is strong and mobile. Yeah, I remember this as a kid. mobile. Yeah, I remember this as a kid. mobile. Yeah, I remember this as a kid. I used to go to India every other summer I used to go to India every other summer I used to go to India every other summer for 6 weeks to see my grandparents and for 6 weeks to see my grandparents and for 6 weeks to see my grandparents and my family. And I remember at my maternal my family. And I remember at my maternal my family. And I remember at my maternal grandparents house, they used to live in grandparents house, they used to live in grandparents house, they used to live in a block of flats on the second floor a block of flats on the second floor a block of flats on the second floor >> and because it's hot in the day every >> and because it's hot in the day every >> and because it's hot in the day every day at about 400 p.m. there was like day at about 400 p.m. there was like day at about 400 p.m. there was like three or four um sort of blocks of flats three or four um sort of blocks of flats three or four um sort of blocks of flats around there, all the kids would kind of around there, all the kids would kind of around there, all the kids would kind of congregate downstairs at about 400 p.m. congregate downstairs at about 400 p.m. congregate downstairs at about 400 p.m. >> and do all sorts of stuff. And yeah, I'm >> and do all sorts of stuff. And yeah, I'm >> and do all sorts of stuff. And yeah, I'm on holiday playing with my cousins and on holiday playing with my cousins and on holiday playing with my cousins and my young cousin say we're going to play my young cousin say we're going to play my young cousin say we're going to play football. So, I'd go down with my shoes football. So, I'd go down with my shoes football. So, I'd go down with my shoes on and they're all playing football like on and they're all playing football like on and they're all playing football like full on barefoot. So, obviously I take full on barefoot. So, obviously I take full on barefoot. So, obviously I take my shoes off and it's a little sore for my shoes off and it's a little sore for my shoes off and it's a little sore for me cuz I'm not used to it. me cuz I'm not used to it. me cuz I'm not used to it. >> But then by the end of the summer you're >> But then by the end of the summer you're >> But then by the end of the summer you're like, "Yeah, there's no problem." You like, "Yeah, there's no problem." You like, "Yeah, there's no problem." You see them properly tackling, sliding, see them properly tackling, sliding, see them properly tackling, sliding, whatever, completely barefoot. And we whatever, completely barefoot. And we whatever, completely barefoot. And we would think in the West, we think you would think in the West, we think you would think in the West, we think you can't play football like that. And I'm can't play football like that. And I'm can't play football like that. And I'm not at all suggesting anyone does that. not at all suggesting anyone does that. not at all suggesting anyone does that. But it does show you how resilient and But it does show you how resilient and But it does show you how resilient and adaptable our feet are when we start to adaptable our feet are when we start to adaptable our feet are when we start to use them. Right. use them. Right. use them. Right. >> That's right. Give them what they need. >> That's right. Give them what they need. >> That's right. Give them what they need. >> Okay. So, if it's the foot function, >> Okay. So, if it's the foot function, >> Okay. So, if it's the foot function, that's the most important thing. that's the most important thing. that's the most important thing. >> That is the most important, >> That is the most important, >> That is the most important, >> which is what Gary would definitely say. >> which is what Gary would definitely say. >> which is what Gary would definitely say. Yes. You know, I think Gary's viewpoint Yes. You know, I think Gary's viewpoint Yes. You know, I think Gary's viewpoint would be if your feet function well, would be if your feet function well, would be if your feet function well, >> you can probably get away with anything. >> you can probably get away with anything. >> you can probably get away with anything. But I think a lot of us in fact like how But I think a lot of us in fact like how But I think a lot of us in fact like how how guess how guess how guess >> it think about it like stacking >> it think about it like stacking >> it think about it like stacking behaviors. behaviors. behaviors. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you don't pay attention to your feet >> If you don't pay attention to your feet >> If you don't pay attention to your feet and you don't strength train your foot and you don't strength train your foot and you don't strength train your foot and you don't mobilize your foot and and you don't mobilize your foot and and you don't mobilize your foot and you're wearing foot orthoses forever and you're wearing foot orthoses forever and you're wearing foot orthoses forever and you're wearing restrictive footwear, you're wearing restrictive footwear, you're wearing restrictive footwear, you're putting a lot of a lot of things you're putting a lot of a lot of things you're putting a lot of a lot of things not in your favor. not in your favor. not in your favor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you see? It's it's this stacking >> Do you see? It's it's this stacking >> Do you see? It's it's this stacking concept. So, we have to do something. concept. So, we have to do something. concept. So, we have to do something. Some people choose to just wear minimal Some people choose to just wear minimal Some people choose to just wear minimal footwear. There's studies saying if you footwear. There's studies saying if you footwear. There's studies saying if you just wore minimal footwear, you improve just wore minimal footwear, you improve just wore minimal footwear, you improve the strength of your foot. the strength of your foot. the strength of your foot. >> Yeah. 60 62% >> Yeah. 60 62% >> Yeah. 60 62% increase in just 4 months. increase in just 4 months. increase in just 4 months. >> And that that study I think University >> And that that study I think University >> And that that study I think University of Liverpool was remarkable because it's of Liverpool was remarkable because it's of Liverpool was remarkable because it's like like like >> if if you if you're someone who goes to >> if if you if you're someone who goes to >> if if you if you're someone who goes to the gym, right? the gym, right? the gym, right? If someone could tell you you could get If someone could tell you you could get If someone could tell you you could get a 62% increase in your biceps or your a 62% increase in your biceps or your a 62% increase in your biceps or your quads, quads, quads, >> everybody's in. >> everybody's in. >> everybody's in. >> Yeah, but the crazy thing is it you're >> Yeah, but the crazy thing is it you're >> Yeah, but the crazy thing is it you're not actually doing anything. You're just not actually doing anything. You're just not actually doing anything. You're just wearing wearing wearing >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> minimal shoes. So, your feet are >> minimal shoes. So, your feet are >> minimal shoes. So, your feet are naturally getting a workout and you're, naturally getting a workout and you're, naturally getting a workout and you're, you know, it's crazy. It's like it's you know, it's crazy. It's like it's you know, it's crazy. It's like it's kind of free money sitting there for kind of free money sitting there for kind of free money sitting there for some people. You know, when I was doing some people. You know, when I was doing some people. You know, when I was doing the research for this book, I was the research for this book, I was the research for this book, I was looking at so many studies and a lot of looking at so many studies and a lot of looking at so many studies and a lot of them were delineated in what happens them were delineated in what happens them were delineated in what happens when you wear this type of footwear when you wear this type of footwear when you wear this type of footwear versus what happens when you do these versus what happens when you do these versus what happens when you do these exercises. And I would love to see more exercises. And I would love to see more exercises. And I would love to see more research where those conversations are research where those conversations are research where those conversations are combined. combined. combined. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The and conversation. What happens when >> The and conversation. What happens when >> The and conversation. What happens when you wear functional or minimal footwear you wear functional or minimal footwear you wear functional or minimal footwear and and and you exercise your foot? you exercise your foot? you exercise your foot? >> You know, I think that would be but for >> You know, I think that would be but for >> You know, I think that would be but for those who are saying, "Hey, I would just those who are saying, "Hey, I would just those who are saying, "Hey, I would just prefer to wear minimal footwear." You prefer to wear minimal footwear." You prefer to wear minimal footwear." You will get benefit. There's others say, will get benefit. There's others say, will get benefit. There's others say, "Hey, I'm just going to I'm going to "Hey, I'm just going to I'm going to "Hey, I'm just going to I'm going to work on strengthening and mobilizing my work on strengthening and mobilizing my work on strengthening and mobilizing my feet." Great. Do something. feet." Great. Do something. feet." Great. Do something. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. on that topic then of doing something. on that topic then of doing something. on that topic then of doing something. There are so many tools in this book for There are so many tools in this book for There are so many tools in this book for people to think about doing, right? But people to think about doing, right? But people to think about doing, right? But let's start to stratify it. Let's say let's start to stratify it. Let's say let's start to stratify it. Let's say someone's listening to this, Courtney, someone's listening to this, Courtney, someone's listening to this, Courtney, and they're like, "Yeah, I'm not sure and they're like, "Yeah, I'm not sure and they're like, "Yeah, I'm not sure about changing my footwear, but I'm about changing my footwear, but I'm about changing my footwear, but I'm interested in improving the health of my interested in improving the health of my interested in improving the health of my feet." feet." feet." What are your sort of top What are your sort of top What are your sort of top daily, you know, three, four times a daily, you know, three, four times a daily, you know, three, four times a week? Like what what are some of these week? Like what what are some of these week? Like what what are some of these top drill stroke exercises you would top drill stroke exercises you would top drill stroke exercises you would recommend people start doing? recommend people start doing? recommend people start doing? >> I think the first thing is do you have >> I think the first thing is do you have >> I think the first thing is do you have good foot awareness? good foot awareness? good foot awareness? Most of the time people have not paid Most of the time people have not paid Most of the time people have not paid attention to how their foot feels. And attention to how their foot feels. And attention to how their foot feels. And so that's where we'll start. So, we'll so that's where we'll start. So, we'll so that's where we'll start. So, we'll have people keep their four toes down have people keep their four toes down have people keep their four toes down and can you just lift your big toe? and can you just lift your big toe? and can you just lift your big toe? >> Okay, hold on. So, they'll keep the four >> Okay, hold on. So, they'll keep the four >> Okay, hold on. So, they'll keep the four toes down and just lift their big toe. toes down and just lift their big toe. toes down and just lift their big toe. Now, Now, Now, >> I know cuz I've done this before with >> I know cuz I've done this before with >> I know cuz I've done this before with Helen that um it's different on my left Helen that um it's different on my left Helen that um it's different on my left than right. Yes. So, on my left foot, than right. Yes. So, on my left foot, than right. Yes. So, on my left foot, for example, I can keep my toes down and for example, I can keep my toes down and for example, I can keep my toes down and lift up my toe. lift up my toe. lift up my toe. >> On my right one, my second toe starts to >> On my right one, my second toe starts to >> On my right one, my second toe starts to come up. come up. come up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What? What? I know you haven't >> Okay. What? What? I know you haven't >> Okay. What? What? I know you haven't examined my feet, but is that common? examined my feet, but is that common? examined my feet, but is that common? And if so, why does that sort of happen? And if so, why does that sort of happen? And if so, why does that sort of happen? >> It is common. And what's I think very >> It is common. And what's I think very >> It is common. And what's I think very interesting is a lot of the times when I interesting is a lot of the times when I interesting is a lot of the times when I see that, the foot that has poor see that, the foot that has poor see that, the foot that has poor dexterity or poor awareness will often dexterity or poor awareness will often dexterity or poor awareness will often be the side where you'll start to see be the side where you'll start to see be the side where you'll start to see symptoms. symptoms. symptoms. >> That's true with me for sure. >> That's true with me for sure. >> That's true with me for sure. >> So, pay attention to that. Also, when >> So, pay attention to that. Also, when >> So, pay attention to that. Also, when you're lifting the big toe, I also look you're lifting the big toe, I also look you're lifting the big toe, I also look at how you're lifting the big toe. When at how you're lifting the big toe. When at how you're lifting the big toe. When you lift the big toe, you lift the big toe, you lift the big toe, does it deviate away from the middle of does it deviate away from the middle of does it deviate away from the middle of your body? So, think of a bunion. If I your body? So, think of a bunion. If I your body? So, think of a bunion. If I was going to lift my big toe, it my toe was going to lift my big toe, it my toe was going to lift my big toe, it my toe should go straight in the air. If you should go straight in the air. If you should go straight in the air. If you lift your big toe and it goes towards lift your big toe and it goes towards lift your big toe and it goes towards your second toe, your second toe, your second toe, muscle muscle weakness because there's a muscle muscle weakness because there's a muscle muscle weakness because there's a muscle that straightens the big toe. muscle that straightens the big toe. muscle that straightens the big toe. Can we just pause there on bunions a Can we just pause there on bunions a Can we just pause there on bunions a minute because bunyions are so common as minute because bunyions are so common as minute because bunyions are so common as you said you you experienced them I you said you you experienced them I you said you you experienced them I think in your 20ies. think in your 20ies. think in your 20ies. >> I have a couple of questions around >> I have a couple of questions around >> I have a couple of questions around bunyions which I guess relate to this bunyions which I guess relate to this bunyions which I guess relate to this exercise. Number one is exercise. Number one is exercise. Number one is >> are bunyions a modern problem. Okay. So >> are bunyions a modern problem. Okay. So >> are bunyions a modern problem. Okay. So i.e. do we get them in traditional i.e. do we get them in traditional i.e. do we get them in traditional societies to the best of your knowledge? societies to the best of your knowledge? societies to the best of your knowledge? And then if so, And then if so, And then if so, once you have a bunion, once you have a bunion, once you have a bunion, is there anything you can do about it? is there anything you can do about it? is there anything you can do about it? >> Um, yes. So, let's let's attack the >> Um, yes. So, let's let's attack the >> Um, yes. So, let's let's attack the first one. The first one um one of the first one. The first one um one of the first one. The first one um one of the studies that I found so interesting studies that I found so interesting studies that I found so interesting in regards to hex valgus or bunyions in regards to hex valgus or bunyions in regards to hex valgus or bunyions when I was researching the book was when I was researching the book was when I was researching the book was there were scientists who looked at there were scientists who looked at there were scientists who looked at centuries and they said in the 12th and centuries and they said in the 12th and centuries and they said in the 12th and 13th century versus the 14th and 15th 13th century versus the 14th and 15th 13th century versus the 14th and 15th century and they dug up the skeletal century and they dug up the skeletal century and they dug up the skeletal remains remains remains and they noticed and they noticed and they noticed that in the feet of the men In the 14th that in the feet of the men In the 14th that in the feet of the men In the 14th and 15th centuries, there was more of a and 15th centuries, there was more of a and 15th centuries, there was more of a prevalence of halock vgus. prevalence of halock vgus. prevalence of halock vgus. >> And what is hex vgus? >> And what is hex vgus? >> And what is hex vgus? >> Onion. >> Onion. >> Onion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There was also happened to be more >> There was also happened to be more >> There was also happened to be more fractures in that population as well. fractures in that population as well. fractures in that population as well. Now, we can't make the correlation that Now, we can't make the correlation that Now, we can't make the correlation that a bunion is directly a cause of a bunion is directly a cause of a bunion is directly a cause of fracture, but I thought that was fracture, but I thought that was fracture, but I thought that was interesting. interesting. interesting. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, when you look at those two areas, >> So, when you look at those two areas, >> So, when you look at those two areas, what changed in the 14th and 15th what changed in the 14th and 15th what changed in the 14th and 15th centuries? centuries? centuries? Why when they looked at these skeletal Why when they looked at these skeletal Why when they looked at these skeletal remains was there an increased remains was there an increased remains was there an increased prevalence of hex vgus in that century prevalence of hex vgus in that century prevalence of hex vgus in that century versus 12th and 13th versus 12th and 13th versus 12th and 13th the medieval times and it was the the medieval times and it was the the medieval times and it was the introduction of the crack and the pulain introduction of the crack and the pulain introduction of the crack and the pulain boot you know the very pointy boot you know the very pointy boot you know the very pointy medieval boot medieval boot medieval boot >> right >> right >> right >> that was worn mostly by men because we >> that was worn mostly by men because we >> that was worn mostly by men because we think of bunyions today think of bunyions today think of bunyions today >> for women >> for women >> for women >> for women >> for women >> for women >> that is so interesting >> that is so interesting >> that is so interesting >> it is Never heard that before. >> it is Never heard that before. >> it is Never heard that before. >> I would argue, is it really a female >> I would argue, is it really a female >> I would argue, is it really a female problem? Now it could be because the problem? Now it could be because the problem? Now it could be because the female footwear is very different. These female footwear is very different. These female footwear is very different. These are all just things to think about. are all just things to think about. are all just things to think about. >> Well, there was there was a very >> Well, there was there was a very >> Well, there was there was a very powerful story in uh in the book about powerful story in uh in the book about powerful story in uh in the book about was it a female air hostess who came you was it a female air hostess who came you was it a female air hostess who came you came to see you and came to see you and came to see you and >> you know she's just required as her job >> you know she's just required as her job >> you know she's just required as her job you know they have to have a minimum you know they have to have a minimum you know they have to have a minimum heel height as parts of her job. heel height as parts of her job. heel height as parts of her job. >> Yes. It's so upsetting to me. >> Yes. It's so upsetting to me. >> Yes. It's so upsetting to me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I've written I've written so many >> I've written I've written so many >> I've written I've written so many letters to airlines. letters to airlines. letters to airlines. >> Have they ever written back to you? >> Have they ever written back to you? >> Have they ever written back to you? >> Uh, no. Not yet. >> Uh, no. Not yet. >> Uh, no. Not yet. >> Not yet. Well, but but your book, the >> Not yet. Well, but but your book, the >> Not yet. Well, but but your book, the podcast you appear on, the more all it podcast you appear on, the more all it podcast you appear on, the more all it takes, I realized all it takes is for takes, I realized all it takes is for takes, I realized all it takes is for someone in a position of power at one of someone in a position of power at one of someone in a position of power at one of these companies these companies these companies >> to have experience the problems themsel >> to have experience the problems themsel >> to have experience the problems themsel ultimately that's what changes things, ultimately that's what changes things, ultimately that's what changes things, right? humans when it when it affects right? humans when it when it affects right? humans when it when it affects you suddenly you're motivated to do you suddenly you're motivated to do you suddenly you're motivated to do something about it right if you were the something about it right if you were the something about it right if you were the female CEO of pick your international female CEO of pick your international female CEO of pick your international airline company yes airline company yes airline company yes >> and you experienced this and ended up at >> and you experienced this and ended up at >> and you experienced this and ended up at your clinic your clinic your clinic you might go hey this is crazy right you might go hey this is crazy right you might go hey this is crazy right we're going to change our policy but we're going to change our policy but we're going to change our policy but until that happens it gets tricky until that happens it gets tricky until that happens it gets tricky doesn't it doesn't it doesn't it >> yeah she said to me she goes you know I >> yeah she said to me she goes you know I >> yeah she said to me she goes you know I wish we took care of our feet as much as wish we took care of our feet as much as wish we took care of our feet as much as we're supposed to take care of our we're supposed to take care of our we're supposed to take care of our passengers I said that's very fair passengers I said that's very fair passengers I said that's very fair >> but but just on that if if there is an >> but but just on that if if there is an >> but but just on that if if there is an air host air host air host listening to this Courtney who for her listening to this Courtney who for her listening to this Courtney who for her job has to wear heels job has to wear heels job has to wear heels >> you're still I guess going to argue that >> you're still I guess going to argue that >> you're still I guess going to argue that >> well not argue you're going to perhaps >> well not argue you're going to perhaps >> well not argue you're going to perhaps make the case that when you're not at make the case that when you're not at make the case that when you're not at work work work >> yes >> yes >> yes >> you need to be really paying attention >> you need to be really paying attention >> you need to be really paying attention and maybe when you're walking I don't and maybe when you're walking I don't and maybe when you're walking I don't know maybe when you're on your break on know maybe when you're on your break on know maybe when you're on your break on a long flight get the heel do you know a long flight get the heel do you know a long flight get the heel do you know what I mean there are things that you what I mean there are things that you what I mean there are things that you would recommend they do to mitigate the would recommend they do to mitigate the would recommend they do to mitigate the downside downside downside >> they have changed there are several >> they have changed there are several >> they have changed there are several several airlines now where they used to several airlines now where they used to several airlines now where they used to require that there is a small heel worn require that there is a small heel worn require that there is a small heel worn both in the airport and on the flight. both in the airport and on the flight. both in the airport and on the flight. Some of these airlines have changed. Now Some of these airlines have changed. Now Some of these airlines have changed. Now they only have to wear the heel on the they only have to wear the heel on the they only have to wear the heel on the flight. So they can wear different flight. So they can wear different flight. So they can wear different footwear when they're walking through footwear when they're walking through footwear when they're walking through the airport. the airport. the airport. >> It's kind of interesting, isn't it? >> It's kind of interesting, isn't it? >> It's kind of interesting, isn't it? >> Yes. Yes. Very. Because I guess what >> Yes. Yes. Very. Because I guess what >> Yes. Yes. Very. Because I guess what what is the thinking that I guess the what is the thinking that I guess the what is the thinking that I guess the thinking is whenever you see one of our thinking is whenever you see one of our thinking is whenever you see one of our I guess we're talking about women at the I guess we're talking about women at the I guess we're talking about women at the moment, female air hostess, they're moment, female air hostess, they're moment, female air hostess, they're going to have a certain look, right? The going to have a certain look, right? The going to have a certain look, right? The goal with any company of a of an goal with any company of a of an goal with any company of a of an airline, I would think, is customer airline, I would think, is customer airline, I would think, is customer service. You want your flight attendant service. You want your flight attendant service. You want your flight attendant to, you know, be interacting with your to, you know, be interacting with your to, you know, be interacting with your passengers and be happy and be, you passengers and be happy and be, you passengers and be happy and be, you know, confident and comfortable. If know, confident and comfortable. If know, confident and comfortable. If they're not comfortable and anybody they're not comfortable and anybody they're not comfortable and anybody who's had foot pain, you're not walking who's had foot pain, you're not walking who's had foot pain, you're not walking around with a smile on your face. around with a smile on your face. around with a smile on your face. >> Yeah. You're going to be more reactive, >> Yeah. You're going to be more reactive, >> Yeah. You're going to be more reactive, less forgiving when you get asked for less forgiving when you get asked for less forgiving when you get asked for something for the fifth 500th time on something for the fifth 500th time on something for the fifth 500th time on the flight or whatever. the flight or whatever. the flight or whatever. >> Okay. So, basically >> Okay. So, basically >> Okay. So, basically the I think where we're up to at the the I think where we're up to at the the I think where we're up to at the moment is we're saying moment is we're saying moment is we're saying traditional societies we don't think had traditional societies we don't think had traditional societies we don't think had bunions. We think well I don't know if bunions. We think well I don't know if bunions. We think well I don't know if that's the case you're making but that's the case you're making but that's the case you're making but certainly in the 14th 15th century it certainly in the 14th 15th century it certainly in the 14th 15th century it looked as though looked as though looked as though >> there's this increased prevalence >> there's this increased prevalence >> there's this increased prevalence >> because of footwear. >> because of footwear. >> because of footwear. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And then there always is the argument >> And then there always is the argument >> And then there always is the argument with bunyions about are they genetic. with bunyions about are they genetic. with bunyions about are they genetic. So my mom had a bunion, my grandma had a So my mom had a bunion, my grandma had a So my mom had a bunion, my grandma had a bunion. So that's why I have a bunion. bunion. So that's why I have a bunion. bunion. So that's why I have a bunion. And there are certain, And there are certain, And there are certain, you know, factors we can say connective you know, factors we can say connective you know, factors we can say connective tissue laxity, hypermobility. There are tissue laxity, hypermobility. There are tissue laxity, hypermobility. There are factors that are inherited that would factors that are inherited that would factors that are inherited that would make a foot more likely to have a make a foot more likely to have a make a foot more likely to have a bunion. But this is always my argument bunion. But this is always my argument bunion. But this is always my argument with that. with that. with that. If you went to the doctor and they ask If you went to the doctor and they ask If you went to the doctor and they ask you for your family history, do you have you for your family history, do you have you for your family history, do you have a history of cancer? Do you have a a history of cancer? Do you have a a history of cancer? Do you have a history of heart disease? And you say, history of heart disease? And you say, history of heart disease? And you say, "Yes, my mother had heart disease." What "Yes, my mother had heart disease." What "Yes, my mother had heart disease." What do they tell you to do? Change your lifestyle. Change your lifestyle. >> Change your lifestyle. So when someone >> Change your lifestyle. So when someone >> Change your lifestyle. So when someone says, "My mom has a bunion," or "My says, "My mom has a bunion," or "My says, "My mom has a bunion," or "My grandma has a bunion," what I'm going to grandma has a bunion," what I'm going to grandma has a bunion," what I'm going to tell them to do, tell them to do, tell them to do, change your lifestyle, change your change your lifestyle, change your change your lifestyle, change your footwear, start strengthening your foot. footwear, start strengthening your foot. footwear, start strengthening your foot. It's not a just because now you ha you It's not a just because now you ha you It's not a just because now you ha you are going to have bunions, have the are going to have bunions, have the are going to have bunions, have the conversation of education. What can you conversation of education. What can you conversation of education. What can you do? Empower the person to make that do? Empower the person to make that do? Empower the person to make that change for themselves. change for themselves. change for themselves. >> Yeah. A couple of things go through my >> Yeah. A couple of things go through my >> Yeah. A couple of things go through my mind there. First of all, number one, mind there. First of all, number one, mind there. First of all, number one, we're talking about earlier on in this we're talking about earlier on in this we're talking about earlier on in this conversation, how do you motivate people conversation, how do you motivate people conversation, how do you motivate people to start caring about their feet if they to start caring about their feet if they to start caring about their feet if they don't have a problem? And it could be if don't have a problem? And it could be if don't have a problem? And it could be if your mom your mom your mom >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> or your grandma or your dad even had >> or your grandma or your dad even had >> or your grandma or your dad even had bunions. bunions. bunions. >> So maybe you have a genetic >> So maybe you have a genetic >> So maybe you have a genetic predisposition. predisposition. predisposition. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. It's not your destiny. It's just >> Right. It's not your destiny. It's just >> Right. It's not your destiny. It's just a predisposition. a predisposition. a predisposition. >> Correct. Maybe that's even more of a >> Correct. Maybe that's even more of a >> Correct. Maybe that's even more of a reason to go, wow, I I saw how much pain reason to go, wow, I I saw how much pain reason to go, wow, I I saw how much pain or discomfort my mom was in. or discomfort my mom was in. or discomfort my mom was in. >> I don't want that to be me. Let me get >> I don't want that to be me. Let me get >> I don't want that to be me. Let me get on to it. So, number one, it could be a on to it. So, number one, it could be a on to it. So, number one, it could be a motivating factor. motivating factor. motivating factor. >> The other thing that has come up several >> The other thing that has come up several >> The other thing that has come up several times for me, Courtney, in this times for me, Courtney, in this times for me, Courtney, in this conversation is the similarity between conversation is the similarity between conversation is the similarity between the way you look at the feet the way you look at the feet the way you look at the feet >> and the way that let's say I might look >> and the way that let's say I might look >> and the way that let's say I might look at physical health. So, at physical health. So, at physical health. So, let's take two diabetes, right? let's take two diabetes, right? let's take two diabetes, right? We know that by the time you get a We know that by the time you get a We know that by the time you get a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, the process and the physiological the process and the physiological the process and the physiological changes that led to it probably started changes that led to it probably started changes that led to it probably started 5 to 10 years prior to that. So, you've 5 to 10 years prior to that. So, you've 5 to 10 years prior to that. So, you've got this long period of time where got this long period of time where got this long period of time where you're living your life, your sugar you're living your life, your sugar you're living your life, your sugar hasn't quite got to the diabetic range hasn't quite got to the diabetic range hasn't quite got to the diabetic range yet, but it doesn't mean things are yet, but it doesn't mean things are yet, but it doesn't mean things are good. And you made that case earlier on good. And you made that case earlier on good. And you made that case earlier on with the feet, right? Just because with the feet, right? Just because with the feet, right? Just because you're not in pain at the moment, you you're not in pain at the moment, you you're not in pain at the moment, you know, by the time they come and see you know, by the time they come and see you know, by the time they come and see you with their problem in their foot, that with their problem in their foot, that with their problem in their foot, that didn't start the week before. That has didn't start the week before. That has didn't start the week before. That has been building up because of your been building up because of your been building up because of your lifestyle and your footwear and how you lifestyle and your footwear and how you lifestyle and your footwear and how you treat your feet for maybe a decade. treat your feet for maybe a decade. treat your feet for maybe a decade. Right. So, there's this latent period Right. So, there's this latent period Right. So, there's this latent period where you could intervene. There's also where you could intervene. There's also where you could intervene. There's also a similarity in terms a similarity in a similarity in terms a similarity in a similarity in terms a similarity in terms of what you just said, which is terms of what you just said, which is terms of what you just said, which is people will say sometimes, oh, you know, people will say sometimes, oh, you know, people will say sometimes, oh, you know, doc, yeah, but my my my dad had doc, yeah, but my my my dad had doc, yeah, but my my my dad had diabetes, type two diabetes, so of diabetes, type two diabetes, so of diabetes, type two diabetes, so of course I'm going to get it. So, hold on course I'm going to get it. So, hold on course I'm going to get it. So, hold on a minute. a minute. a minute. >> Your dad may have had a genetic >> Your dad may have had a genetic >> Your dad may have had a genetic predisposition, predisposition, predisposition, >> but I can guarantee you if you eat in >> but I can guarantee you if you eat in >> but I can guarantee you if you eat in this way and you know, you keep your this way and you know, you keep your this way and you know, you keep your weight here and you do this sort of ex weight here and you do this sort of ex weight here and you do this sort of ex whatever it might be, you you're not whatever it might be, you you're not whatever it might be, you you're not going to get it. going to get it. going to get it. >> Yes. Do you know what I mean? It's an >> Yes. Do you know what I mean? It's an >> Yes. Do you know what I mean? It's an exciting. Yes, it's an exciting exciting. Yes, it's an exciting exciting. Yes, it's an exciting conversation. It's a one of empowerment. conversation. It's a one of empowerment. conversation. It's a one of empowerment. >> And I think people get excited about >> And I think people get excited about >> And I think people get excited about that, that there's something that you that, that there's something that you that, that there's something that you can do. can do. can do. >> It's part of the the journey, if you >> It's part of the the journey, if you >> It's part of the the journey, if you will. And that's why I love when people will. And that's why I love when people will. And that's why I love when people say, "Oh, you've given me hope." Because say, "Oh, you've given me hope." Because say, "Oh, you've given me hope." Because that is what it's about. that is what it's about. that is what it's about. >> Your whole book is a message of hope. >> Your whole book is a message of hope. >> Your whole book is a message of hope. Actually, I think it deals with Actually, I think it deals with Actually, I think it deals with everyone. I I love the way with footwear everyone. I I love the way with footwear everyone. I I love the way with footwear you you take this very you you take this very you you take this very nuanced approach saying, "Well, it kind nuanced approach saying, "Well, it kind nuanced approach saying, "Well, it kind of depends. depends where you currently of depends. depends where you currently of depends. depends where you currently are. are. are. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um you take this approach with >> Right. Um you take this approach with >> Right. Um you take this approach with walking which we haven't gone into in walking which we haven't gone into in walking which we haven't gone into in depth. Your build program which you know depth. Your build program which you know depth. Your build program which you know maybe we'll get to today. Maybe we'll maybe we'll get to today. Maybe we'll maybe we'll get to today. Maybe we'll have to leave it for a part two. have to leave it for a part two. have to leave it for a part two. >> But this idea that actually look >> But this idea that actually look >> But this idea that actually look sure our ancestors may have done 15,000 sure our ancestors may have done 15,000 sure our ancestors may have done 15,000 plus steps a day, but let's not plus steps a day, but let's not plus steps a day, but let's not >> make the aim for 15,000 or 10,000 put >> make the aim for 15,000 or 10,000 put >> make the aim for 15,000 or 10,000 put you off. even if you can increase from you off. even if you can increase from you off. even if you can increase from 2,000 to 4,000 steps a day, you're 2,000 to 4,000 steps a day, you're 2,000 to 4,000 steps a day, you're getting benefit, right? So, so this getting benefit, right? So, so this getting benefit, right? So, so this message of hope, I think, comes through message of hope, I think, comes through message of hope, I think, comes through in all of your work, in all of your work, in all of your work, >> which I'm sure comes from your own >> which I'm sure comes from your own >> which I'm sure comes from your own experience personally with yourself and experience personally with yourself and experience personally with yourself and with dealing with patients um for for so with dealing with patients um for for so with dealing with patients um for for so many years. many years. many years. I think that's the where it it makes I think that's the where it it makes I think that's the where it it makes comes full circle with the foot the foot comes full circle with the foot the foot comes full circle with the foot the foot strength footwear conversation and strength footwear conversation and strength footwear conversation and walking because I think that's such a walking because I think that's such a walking because I think that's such a great question. How do you convince great question. How do you convince great question. How do you convince somebody to pay attention to this stuff somebody to pay attention to this stuff somebody to pay attention to this stuff when they don't have foot problems? And when they don't have foot problems? And when they don't have foot problems? And that's where I think the integration of that's where I think the integration of that's where I think the integration of the conversation of walking because if the conversation of walking because if the conversation of walking because if you were to ask someone you were to ask someone you were to ask someone if something would deter you from if something would deter you from if something would deter you from walking in the future, what do you want walking in the future, what do you want walking in the future, what do you want to do when you age in your 80th decade? to do when you age in your 80th decade? to do when you age in your 80th decade? What do you want that to look like? What do you want that to look like? What do you want that to look like? There's not one person that would say, There's not one person that would say, There's not one person that would say, "I don't want to walk." "I don't want to walk." "I don't want to walk." >> Yeah. They might, you know, it might >> Yeah. They might, you know, it might >> Yeah. They might, you know, it might vary as far as strength training or this vary as far as strength training or this vary as far as strength training or this or that, but every single one of my or that, but every single one of my or that, but every single one of my patients has always said, "I want to be patients has always said, "I want to be patients has always said, "I want to be able to walk," whether that's with their able to walk," whether that's with their able to walk," whether that's with their spouse or their friends or their spouse or their friends or their spouse or their friends or their children. children. children. And that's where the foot is the biggest And that's where the foot is the biggest And that's where the foot is the biggest player in that conversation. player in that conversation. player in that conversation. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's pretty like still gives me chills. >> it's pretty like still gives me chills. >> it's pretty like still gives me chills. I like it's such an important I like it's such an important I like it's such an important conversation. conversation. conversation. >> Yeah, it really is. And of course, it's >> Yeah, it really is. And of course, it's >> Yeah, it really is. And of course, it's your foot that interacts with the your foot that interacts with the your foot that interacts with the ground. You know, it doesn't matter how ground. You know, it doesn't matter how ground. You know, it doesn't matter how strong your biceps are when you're 80. strong your biceps are when you're 80. strong your biceps are when you're 80. Like, Like, Like, >> got to be able to walk >> got to be able to walk >> got to be able to walk >> and you're going to want to walk. >> and you're going to want to walk. >> and you're going to want to walk. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Going back to these practical exercises. Going back to these practical exercises. Going back to these practical exercises. So, I I sort of took you off on a bit of So, I I sort of took you off on a bit of So, I I sort of took you off on a bit of a tangent on bunyions. a tangent on bunyions. a tangent on bunyions. >> It's okay. >> It's okay. >> It's okay. >> So, let's just finish on bunions for a >> So, let's just finish on bunions for a >> So, let's just finish on bunions for a minute then. So, we're basically saying minute then. So, we're basically saying minute then. So, we're basically saying we think they are a modern uh condition. we think they are a modern uh condition. we think they are a modern uh condition. you, I think, got bunyions in your you, I think, got bunyions in your you, I think, got bunyions in your 20ies, right? So, a couple of questions 20ies, right? So, a couple of questions 20ies, right? So, a couple of questions then. Do you still have bunyions? then. Do you still have bunyions? then. Do you still have bunyions? >> And do you think that the work you're >> And do you think that the work you're >> And do you think that the work you're doing, what what what are you hoping? doing, what what what are you hoping? doing, what what what are you hoping? You hoping for a reversal of the bunion, You hoping for a reversal of the bunion, You hoping for a reversal of the bunion, or are you hoping that actually even if or are you hoping that actually even if or are you hoping that actually even if it stays like this, I'm going to still it stays like this, I'm going to still it stays like this, I'm going to still have functional, pain-free feet as I have functional, pain-free feet as I have functional, pain-free feet as I age? age? age? >> I think that's that's a great question. >> I think that's that's a great question. >> I think that's that's a great question. When I look at my foot, what is the When I look at my foot, what is the When I look at my foot, what is the goal? I used to have a lot of pain um goal? I used to have a lot of pain um goal? I used to have a lot of pain um that was affecting my walking and my that was affecting my walking and my that was affecting my walking and my movement. movement. movement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you were to say to me, what is more >> If you were to say to me, what is more >> If you were to say to me, what is more important for you? That aesthetically we important for you? That aesthetically we important for you? That aesthetically we get rid of the bunion or that you don't get rid of the bunion or that you don't get rid of the bunion or that you don't have pain and you can be more have pain and you can be more have pain and you can be more functional. That's a very easy question. functional. That's a very easy question. functional. That's a very easy question. Less pain, more function. When you have Less pain, more function. When you have Less pain, more function. When you have early intervention with bunions, mild to early intervention with bunions, mild to early intervention with bunions, mild to moderate, we can see the change in the moderate, we can see the change in the moderate, we can see the change in the foot, the bunion might decrease. In my foot, the bunion might decrease. In my foot, the bunion might decrease. In my case, I was more on that moderate to case, I was more on that moderate to case, I was more on that moderate to severe end of that. So, I still have my severe end of that. So, I still have my severe end of that. So, I still have my bunion. If anyone looks at my foot now, bunion. If anyone looks at my foot now, bunion. If anyone looks at my foot now, it looks a lot different. it looks a lot different. it looks a lot different. >> Is it better than it was? >> Is it better than it was? >> Is it better than it was? >> It's better than it was. The biggest >> It's better than it was. The biggest >> It's better than it was. The biggest difference I think when you look at my difference I think when you look at my difference I think when you look at my foot now versus 15 years ago foot now versus 15 years ago foot now versus 15 years ago is 15 years ago it looked like skin and is 15 years ago it looked like skin and is 15 years ago it looked like skin and bones. It looked like an atrophied foot. bones. It looked like an atrophied foot. bones. It looked like an atrophied foot. You could see the metatarscils. You You could see the metatarscils. You You could see the metatarscils. You could see just how thin the foot was. I could see just how thin the foot was. I could see just how thin the foot was. I still have the bunion, still have the bunion, still have the bunion, but my foot is beefier. It's bulkier. but my foot is beefier. It's bulkier. but my foot is beefier. It's bulkier. Has more strength to it. Has more strength to it. Has more strength to it. And that I think is a very big And that I think is a very big And that I think is a very big difference. If you think about that, you difference. If you think about that, you difference. If you think about that, you know, the muscles in the feet are just know, the muscles in the feet are just know, the muscles in the feet are just like the muscles in your bicep. For like the muscles in your bicep. For like the muscles in your bicep. For example, if I did a thousand bicep example, if I did a thousand bicep example, if I did a thousand bicep curls, my biceps going to get bigger. curls, my biceps going to get bigger. curls, my biceps going to get bigger. >> When I start to strengthen my foot, you >> When I start to strengthen my foot, you >> When I start to strengthen my foot, you will see changes in the foot. will see changes in the foot. will see changes in the foot. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And so, a combination of strength and >> And so, a combination of strength and >> And so, a combination of strength and paying attention in the right footwear, paying attention in the right footwear, paying attention in the right footwear, my bunion no longer bothers me. my bunion no longer bothers me. my bunion no longer bothers me. >> Do you wish you didn't have a bunion? >> Do you wish you didn't have a bunion? >> Do you wish you didn't have a bunion? >> I think it's part of the story. So do I. >> I think it's part of the story. So do I. >> I think it's part of the story. So do I. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> that's kind of why I asked the question. >> that's kind of why I asked the question. >> that's kind of why I asked the question. It's like because It's like because It's like because >> Yeah. I just I just I really wonder your >> Yeah. I just I just I really wonder your >> Yeah. I just I just I really wonder your perspective on that because perspective on that because perspective on that because >> I guess in many ways if you didn't have >> I guess in many ways if you didn't have >> I guess in many ways if you didn't have the bunion, you probably wouldn't be the bunion, you probably wouldn't be the bunion, you probably wouldn't be sitting here in the studio today. And it sitting here in the studio today. And it sitting here in the studio today. And it also all the other diagnoses, the also all the other diagnoses, the also all the other diagnoses, the nuromomas that I've had and it reminds nuromomas that I've had and it reminds nuromomas that I've had and it reminds me when a patient is sitting in front of me when a patient is sitting in front of me when a patient is sitting in front of me also that me also that me also that you know I've been there and I you know I've been there and I you know I've been there and I understand and I do know that it can be understand and I do know that it can be understand and I do know that it can be cause a lot of problems not only cause a lot of problems not only cause a lot of problems not only physically but mentally and emotionally. physically but mentally and emotionally. physically but mentally and emotionally. So I there's a connection there that I'm So I there's a connection there that I'm So I there's a connection there that I'm grateful for so that I can empathize and grateful for so that I can empathize and grateful for so that I can empathize and understand. understand. understand. Do some people when they come and see Do some people when they come and see Do some people when they come and see you need a manipulation in their foot you need a manipulation in their foot you need a manipulation in their foot because some you know maybe the joints because some you know maybe the joints because some you know maybe the joints are stuck or locked in certain places are stuck or locked in certain places are stuck or locked in certain places and the exercises are not enough or and the exercises are not enough or and the exercises are not enough or perhaps a manipulation can free up a perhaps a manipulation can free up a perhaps a manipulation can free up a joint which makes it easier to do the joint which makes it easier to do the joint which makes it easier to do the exercise. exercise. exercise. >> Yes. We'll often for example the >> Yes. We'll often for example the >> Yes. We'll often for example the calccanous the heel when we walk calccanous the heel when we walk calccanous the heel when we walk there's a reason we are designed to there's a reason we are designed to there's a reason we are designed to graze that heel because it's think of a graze that heel because it's think of a graze that heel because it's think of a a pvault it hits the ground it initiates a pvault it hits the ground it initiates a pvault it hits the ground it initiates pronation. So it starts tovert pronation. So it starts tovert pronation. So it starts tovert or open and that's our beginnings of or open and that's our beginnings of or open and that's our beginnings of shock absorption. shock absorption. shock absorption. >> So often times patients will have the >> So often times patients will have the >> So often times patients will have the joints will be sticky if you will. So joints will be sticky if you will. So joints will be sticky if you will. So we'll get in there and we'll mobilize we'll get in there and we'll mobilize we'll get in there and we'll mobilize >> the calccanous. will get the foot to >> the calccanous. will get the foot to >> the calccanous. will get the foot to move and then we say just like you move and then we say just like you move and then we say just like you mentioned with Gary, go do these mentioned with Gary, go do these mentioned with Gary, go do these exercises. Yeah. exercises. Yeah. exercises. Yeah. >> Drive it home. >> Drive it home. >> Drive it home. >> How much time do you think people could >> How much time do you think people could >> How much time do you think people could realistically spend on their feet per realistically spend on their feet per realistically spend on their feet per day or what? Let's let let me phrase it day or what? Let's let let me phrase it day or what? Let's let let me phrase it another way. What is the another way. What is the another way. What is the for the time pressured busy person who for the time pressured busy person who for the time pressured busy person who likes listening to health podcasts and likes listening to health podcasts and likes listening to health podcasts and every week has different things that every week has different things that every week has different things that they could be doing to improve their they could be doing to improve their they could be doing to improve their health and wellbeing. health and wellbeing. health and wellbeing. And then they hear, "Oh my god, now I And then they hear, "Oh my god, now I And then they hear, "Oh my god, now I need to look after my foot health as need to look after my foot health as need to look after my foot health as well as everything else, right?" well as everything else, right?" well as everything else, right?" >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What is a reasonable minimum that they >> What is a reasonable minimum that they >> What is a reasonable minimum that they could spend a day on their feet and get could spend a day on their feet and get could spend a day on their feet and get benefits? benefits? benefits? >> Yes. I I've heard this often. Um I'll >> Yes. I I've heard this often. Um I'll >> Yes. I I've heard this often. Um I'll tell my patients, start with 10 minutes tell my patients, start with 10 minutes tell my patients, start with 10 minutes a day. And we have designed things that a day. And we have designed things that a day. And we have designed things that you can literally do when you're sitting you can literally do when you're sitting you can literally do when you're sitting at your desk. Mhm. at your desk. Mhm. at your desk. Mhm. >> So that toe yoga for example, you can do >> So that toe yoga for example, you can do >> So that toe yoga for example, you can do it sitting at your desk. You can lift it sitting at your desk. You can lift it sitting at your desk. You can lift all of your toes and spread them and all of your toes and spread them and all of your toes and spread them and reach them forward. You can walk around reach them forward. You can walk around reach them forward. You can walk around barefoot for 5 minutes. All of these barefoot for 5 minutes. All of these barefoot for 5 minutes. All of these little things count. You can little things count. You can little things count. You can >> You know what's crazy to me? And I I >> You know what's crazy to me? And I I >> You know what's crazy to me? And I I guess this is clearly it depends what guess this is clearly it depends what guess this is clearly it depends what your starting point is, your starting point is, your starting point is, >> but as someone who literally lives their >> but as someone who literally lives their >> but as someone who literally lives their life barefoot in certainly in my house, life barefoot in certainly in my house, life barefoot in certainly in my house, >> it's crazy to think that yeah, spend 5 >> it's crazy to think that yeah, spend 5 >> it's crazy to think that yeah, spend 5 minutes barefoot that counts. Of course, minutes barefoot that counts. Of course, minutes barefoot that counts. Of course, it does count. it does count. it does count. >> Yes, it's an entry. I've had many >> Yes, it's an entry. I've had many >> Yes, it's an entry. I've had many patients when they get out of bed, their patients when they get out of bed, their patients when they get out of bed, their foot goes into a slipper. They will wear foot goes into a slipper. They will wear foot goes into a slipper. They will wear some type of um sandal even in the some type of um sandal even in the some type of um sandal even in the shower. So, the foot never sees the shower. So, the foot never sees the shower. So, the foot never sees the ground. ground. ground. >> Why is that for great pain? >> Why is that for great pain? >> Why is that for great pain? >> Because once, for example, someone with >> Because once, for example, someone with >> Because once, for example, someone with heel pain, heel pain, heel pain, if you were to Google heel pain, you if you were to Google heel pain, you if you were to Google heel pain, you will see a lot of cushion. will see a lot of cushion. will see a lot of cushion. um don't you know don't let the foot um don't you know don't let the foot um don't you know don't let the foot feel the ground. So for years you'll feel the ground. So for years you'll feel the ground. So for years you'll have people have people have people de loing their foot de loing their foot de loing their foot de loing taking load away. Tissues need de loing taking load away. Tissues need de loing taking load away. Tissues need load. We know that. We know tendons need load. We know that. We know tendons need load. We know that. We know tendons need load. We know muscles need load. So you load. We know muscles need load. So you load. We know muscles need load. So you can't de load something forever. can't de load something forever. can't de load something forever. >> This is the problem, isn't it? It's a >> This is the problem, isn't it? It's a >> This is the problem, isn't it? It's a vicious cycle, right? You want people vicious cycle, right? You want people vicious cycle, right? You want people spending more time barefoot at home. At spending more time barefoot at home. At spending more time barefoot at home. At the same time, if you've spent decades the same time, if you've spent decades the same time, if you've spent decades not looking after your feet through no not looking after your feet through no not looking after your feet through no fault of your own, right? You may be in fault of your own, right? You may be in fault of your own, right? You may be in a situation now where, like that a situation now where, like that a situation now where, like that patient, where you get up, you put patient, where you get up, you put patient, where you get up, you put something on, you go in the shower, you something on, you go in the shower, you something on, you go in the shower, you need something. These are downstream need something. These are downstream need something. These are downstream consequences. consequences. consequences. >> They're not the cause. It's like, let's >> They're not the cause. It's like, let's >> They're not the cause. It's like, let's go upstream and try and prevent that go upstream and try and prevent that go upstream and try and prevent that happening in the first place. And then happening in the first place. And then happening in the first place. And then on the other side of the spectrum, on the other side of the spectrum, on the other side of the spectrum, you'll have patients that have been you'll have patients that have been you'll have patients that have been walking barefoot and we'll tell them, walking barefoot and we'll tell them, walking barefoot and we'll tell them, "Hey, when you're in the gym, grab a "Hey, when you're in the gym, grab a "Hey, when you're in the gym, grab a kettle bell that's half your body weight kettle bell that's half your body weight kettle bell that's half your body weight and do your calf raises. and do your calf raises. and do your calf raises. That's a lot of weight." That's a lot of weight." That's a lot of weight." >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> The foot can handle it. >> The foot can handle it. >> The foot can handle it. >> The foot's strong, isn't it? Peter >> The foot's strong, isn't it? Peter >> The foot's strong, isn't it? Peter Maleris, I love his research and there Maleris, I love his research and there Maleris, I love his research and there was a study that he did looking at uh was a study that he did looking at uh was a study that he did looking at uh Achilles tendonopathies and the strength Achilles tendonopathies and the strength Achilles tendonopathies and the strength that the foot can actually produce. And that the foot can actually produce. And that the foot can actually produce. And in this study he mentions doing six in this study he mentions doing six in this study he mentions doing six single leg standing calf raises single leg standing calf raises single leg standing calf raises holding half of your body weight and if holding half of your body weight and if holding half of your body weight and if you were seated you were seated you were seated one and a half times your body weight. one and a half times your body weight. one and a half times your body weight. Okay, Okay, Okay, >> that's a lot of weight. >> that's a lot of weight. >> that's a lot of weight. >> And and what and what happens if you do >> And and what and what happens if you do >> And and what and what happens if you do that that that >> there? That was a kind of a healthy >> there? That was a kind of a healthy >> there? That was a kind of a healthy runner can do that's how much force runner can do that's how much force runner can do that's how much force >> that we can >> that we can >> that we can >> that we can do. >> that we can do. >> that we can do. >> I.e. basically our feet are not fragile >> I.e. basically our feet are not fragile >> I.e. basically our feet are not fragile weak weak weak >> structures. They're very very strong. >> structures. They're very very strong. >> structures. They're very very strong. They are They are They are >> we're not utilizing that strength. We're >> we're not utilizing that strength. We're >> we're not utilizing that strength. We're not loading them up enough. In fact, not loading them up enough. In fact, not loading them up enough. In fact, we're doing the opposite. We're trying we're doing the opposite. We're trying we're doing the opposite. We're trying to protect them to protect them to protect them >> and stop them doing any work by putting >> and stop them doing any work by putting >> and stop them doing any work by putting them on pillows every day and these them on pillows every day and these them on pillows every day and these cushioned overly cushioned shoes whereby cushioned overly cushioned shoes whereby cushioned overly cushioned shoes whereby they don't have to work. they don't have to work. they don't have to work. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> The cost of comfort. >> The cost of comfort. >> The cost of comfort. >> Again, load the foot like we would load >> Again, load the foot like we would load >> Again, load the foot like we would load everywhere else. When we started talking everywhere else. When we started talking everywhere else. When we started talking about the beginning exercises, toe yoga, about the beginning exercises, toe yoga, about the beginning exercises, toe yoga, spreading the toes, things like that, spreading the toes, things like that, spreading the toes, things like that, then you can move into resisted then you can move into resisted then you can move into resisted exercises. Let's say you're doing banded exercises. Let's say you're doing banded exercises. Let's say you're doing banded work. work. work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Then you move into more loads, farmers >> Then you move into more loads, farmers >> Then you move into more loads, farmers carries, holding heavier weights. carries, holding heavier weights. carries, holding heavier weights. >> So it's like progressive overload for >> So it's like progressive overload for >> So it's like progressive overload for any other part of the body. any other part of the body. any other part of the body. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> But you're also just now paying >> But you're also just now paying >> But you're also just now paying attention to your feats. attention to your feats. attention to your feats. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Let me try and get back onto the >> Okay. Let me try and get back onto the >> Okay. Let me try and get back onto the practical things. I'm so fascinated by practical things. I'm so fascinated by practical things. I'm so fascinated by this topic. You know, I think we've got this topic. You know, I think we've got this topic. You know, I think we've got at least three podcasts in this year for at least three podcasts in this year for at least three podcasts in this year for it it it >> because this this I'm so interested and >> because this this I'm so interested and >> because this this I'm so interested and I've experienced the benefits myself. I've experienced the benefits myself. I've experienced the benefits myself. So, I want to spread this with the world So, I want to spread this with the world So, I want to spread this with the world and say, "Hey, listen." You know, it's and say, "Hey, listen." You know, it's and say, "Hey, listen." You know, it's funny. My wife, when I started wearing funny. My wife, when I started wearing funny. My wife, when I started wearing Vivos, Vivos, Vivos, >> I don't think for I'm going to guess >> I don't think for I'm going to guess >> I don't think for I'm going to guess three or four years she wouldn't wear three or four years she wouldn't wear three or four years she wouldn't wear them. them. them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> She's like, "I don't like the way they >> She's like, "I don't like the way they >> She's like, "I don't like the way they look, right?" But she has pretty much, I look, right?" But she has pretty much, I look, right?" But she has pretty much, I think, been exclusively in them now for think, been exclusively in them now for think, been exclusively in them now for maybe eight years. maybe eight years. maybe eight years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, I think on I think once you >> You know, I think on I think once you >> You know, I think on I think once you get and again, listen, yes, Viva Beth get and again, listen, yes, Viva Beth get and again, listen, yes, Viva Beth sponsor this podcast, but this is not sponsor this podcast, but this is not sponsor this podcast, but this is not about that. This is about, about that. This is about, about that. This is about, you know, you mentioned many brands so you know, you mentioned many brands so you know, you mentioned many brands so far, right, with I just want people to far, right, with I just want people to far, right, with I just want people to start paying attention to their feet and start paying attention to their feet and start paying attention to their feet and if they're interested, start if they're interested, start if they're interested, start experimenting with functional shoes, experimenting with functional shoes, experimenting with functional shoes, whatever brand you want, minimal shoes, whatever brand you want, minimal shoes, whatever brand you want, minimal shoes, whatever. I don't whatever. I don't whatever. I don't >> Yeah. For me personally, my journey has >> Yeah. For me personally, my journey has >> Yeah. For me personally, my journey has been with Vivo. So, I've got that been with Vivo. So, I've got that been with Vivo. So, I've got that experience. Um, and I'll tell you one experience. Um, and I'll tell you one experience. Um, and I'll tell you one thing on on a sign I've always loved thing on on a sign I've always loved thing on on a sign I've always loved about Galahad, who's the founder of about Galahad, who's the founder of about Galahad, who's the founder of Vivo, is that he always used to say to Vivo, is that he always used to say to Vivo, is that he always used to say to me like, I want to see the day where me like, I want to see the day where me like, I want to see the day where there are loads of barefoot companies, there are loads of barefoot companies, there are loads of barefoot companies, barefoot shoe companies. Like he barefoot shoe companies. Like he barefoot shoe companies. Like he >> I love his mission. I love it's >> I love his mission. I love it's >> I love his mission. I love it's community. It's about it's a bigger community. It's about it's a bigger community. It's about it's a bigger conversation. conversation. conversation. >> Yeah. It's not about their company. He >> Yeah. It's not about their company. He >> Yeah. It's not about their company. He he's like the we're not the enemy. like he's like the we're not the enemy. like he's like the we're not the enemy. like the enemy is big shoe, right? He wants the enemy is big shoe, right? He wants the enemy is big shoe, right? He wants to see thousands of bareoot and to see thousands of bareoot and to see thousands of bareoot and minimalist footwear companies because minimalist footwear companies because minimalist footwear companies because that then that then that then >> you know it normalizes it. It becomes >> you know it normalizes it. It becomes >> you know it normalizes it. It becomes the new norm for people. And you know the new norm for people. And you know the new norm for people. And you know going back to the societal conditioning going back to the societal conditioning going back to the societal conditioning we're saying before, I know for a fact we're saying before, I know for a fact we're saying before, I know for a fact there are top world famous athletes who there are top world famous athletes who there are top world famous athletes who will wear barefoot minimal shoes where will wear barefoot minimal shoes where will wear barefoot minimal shoes where they're not on camera they're not on camera they're not on camera >> because they know the benefits, but they >> because they know the benefits, but they >> because they know the benefits, but they have signed multi-million dollar deals have signed multi-million dollar deals have signed multi-million dollar deals with big brands. So, when they're being with big brands. So, when they're being with big brands. So, when they're being shot, you know, and again, I I'm not shot, you know, and again, I I'm not shot, you know, and again, I I'm not criticizing or judging anyone. I'm just criticizing or judging anyone. I'm just criticizing or judging anyone. I'm just saying marketing is mega powerful and a saying marketing is mega powerful and a saying marketing is mega powerful and a lot of these top end athletes, they know lot of these top end athletes, they know lot of these top end athletes, they know the benefits. So, when they're not being the benefits. So, when they're not being the benefits. So, when they're not being filmed, they wear this stuff. filmed, they wear this stuff. filmed, they wear this stuff. >> You're seeing a lot more of it because >> You're seeing a lot more of it because >> You're seeing a lot more of it because at the end of the day, also, that's at the end of the day, also, that's at the end of the day, also, that's their careers. their careers. their careers. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> They want longevity in their careers. >> They want longevity in their careers. >> They want longevity in their careers. And so, the more this information gets And so, the more this information gets And so, the more this information gets out there and saying, "Hey, this does out there and saying, "Hey, this does out there and saying, "Hey, this does make sense." make sense." make sense." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They're going to do uh what's they need They're going to do uh what's they need They're going to do uh what's they need to do. Yes. Let's so in terms of to do. Yes. Let's so in terms of to do. Yes. Let's so in terms of practical exercises. Okay. We we were practical exercises. Okay. We we were practical exercises. Okay. We we were getting somewhere where and and I pushed getting somewhere where and and I pushed getting somewhere where and and I pushed us off into bunions, but you said you us off into bunions, but you said you us off into bunions, but you said you can look at your big toe and how much can look at your big toe and how much can look at your big toe and how much it's able to it's able to it's able to >> um come up off the ground. Okay. >> um come up off the ground. Okay. >> um come up off the ground. Okay. >> Let's say someone does that. >> Let's say someone does that. >> Let's say someone does that. >> What are they looking for? >> What are they looking for? >> What are they looking for? >> If they can lift their toe, >> If they can lift their toe, >> If they can lift their toe, >> can they lift it straight? And can they >> can they lift it straight? And can they >> can they lift it straight? And can they repeat it? repeat it? repeat it? And and what if And and what if And and what if you know what and I'm guessing you want you know what and I'm guessing you want you know what and I'm guessing you want symmetry in both feet ideally. If one symmetry in both feet ideally. If one symmetry in both feet ideally. If one foot can do it better than the other, foot can do it better than the other, foot can do it better than the other, what do they do about that? what do they do about that? what do they do about that? >> Practice. >> Practice. >> Practice. >> Okay. You just practice. >> Okay. You just practice. >> Okay. You just practice. >> Just practice. And a lot of the times >> Just practice. And a lot of the times >> Just practice. And a lot of the times it's very frustrating for people to not it's very frustrating for people to not it's very frustrating for people to not be able to lift their toe. You'll see be able to lift their toe. You'll see be able to lift their toe. You'll see their brains going. They're lifting their brains going. They're lifting their brains going. They're lifting their hands or they're trying to rock their hands or they're trying to rock their hands or they're trying to rock back onto their heels. basically compensating in whatever way basically compensating in whatever way possible, possible, possible, >> you know, and it's eventually when they >> you know, and it's eventually when they >> you know, and it's eventually when they can start to do it, it's very exciting, can start to do it, it's very exciting, can start to do it, it's very exciting, you know, that's a that's a big deal. you know, that's a that's a big deal. you know, that's a that's a big deal. It's it's driving information to your It's it's driving information to your It's it's driving information to your brain. brain. brain. >> Okay. So, everyone listening to this >> Okay. So, everyone listening to this >> Okay. So, everyone listening to this right now is able to do that at home and right now is able to do that at home and right now is able to do that at home and assess, assess, assess, >> can I do that? And if not, practice. >> can I do that? And if not, practice. >> can I do that? And if not, practice. Okay. So, that's one exercise I can do. Okay. So, that's one exercise I can do. Okay. So, that's one exercise I can do. >> What's another one of your kind of >> What's another one of your kind of >> What's another one of your kind of favorites that people could start favorites that people could start favorites that people could start thinking about each day? I think one of thinking about each day? I think one of thinking about each day? I think one of the because I'm such a fan of toe splay the because I'm such a fan of toe splay the because I'm such a fan of toe splay and toe strength, and toe strength, and toe strength, I will always look at can someone lift I will always look at can someone lift I will always look at can someone lift all of their toes. So keep the ball of all of their toes. So keep the ball of all of their toes. So keep the ball of your foot on the floor. So the ball of your foot on the floor. So the ball of your foot on the floor. So the ball of the big toe, the ball of the little toe, the big toe, the ball of the little toe, the big toe, the ball of the little toe, and the heel, and the heel, and the heel, lift up all of your toes. lift up all of your toes. lift up all of your toes. When you do that, you'll see the arch of When you do that, you'll see the arch of When you do that, you'll see the arch of the foot increase. the foot increase. the foot increase. Keep the arch of the foot and try to Keep the arch of the foot and try to Keep the arch of the foot and try to spread your toes. You should be able to spread your toes. You should be able to spread your toes. You should be able to see daylight in between each and every see daylight in between each and every see daylight in between each and every one of your toes. one of your toes. one of your toes. >> Can you do that sitting down or has to >> Can you do that sitting down or has to >> Can you do that sitting down or has to be standing up? be standing up? be standing up? >> Sitting. Standing. >> Sitting. Standing. >> Sitting. Standing. >> Do you want to have a quick look at mine >> Do you want to have a quick look at mine >> Do you want to have a quick look at mine now under the table? now under the table? now under the table? >> Love to. >> Love to. >> Love to. >> Right. Okay. >> Right. Okay. >> Right. Okay. >> Every I'm I'm always the girl at the >> Every I'm I'm always the girl at the >> Every I'm I'm always the girl at the parties that's on the floor looking at parties that's on the floor looking at parties that's on the floor looking at everybody. everybody. everybody. >> Okay. So, I obviously just we'll make >> Okay. So, I obviously just we'll make >> Okay. So, I obviously just we'll make this relatively quick, but okay. Left this relatively quick, but okay. Left this relatively quick, but okay. Left foot. foot. foot. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I've lifted it up. >> I've lifted it up. >> I've lifted it up. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And now I'm spreading. Yes, >> And now I'm spreading. Yes, >> And now I'm spreading. Yes, >> I can see. Well, maybe not between my >> I can see. Well, maybe not between my >> I can see. Well, maybe not between my fourth and fifth. Well, I'll let you do fourth and fifth. Well, I'll let you do fourth and fifth. Well, I'll let you do the assessment. That's my left foot. the assessment. That's my left foot. the assessment. That's my left foot. >> My right foot. I don't think this is >> My right foot. I don't think this is >> My right foot. I don't think this is good. good. good. >> Lift it. >> Lift it. >> Lift it. Spllay it. Spllay it. Spllay it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Talk to me. >> Okay. Talk to me. >> Okay. Talk to me. >> Okay. Let's talk about the little guy >> Okay. Let's talk about the little guy >> Okay. Let's talk about the little guy who people think he's just there to get who people think he's just there to get who people think he's just there to get broken on furniture. The pinky toe. broken on furniture. The pinky toe. broken on furniture. The pinky toe. When you see the fourth and fifth toes, When you see the fourth and fifth toes, When you see the fourth and fifth toes, often times they're curled under. often times they're curled under. often times they're curled under. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This is muscular imbalance. There is a >> This is muscular imbalance. There is a >> This is muscular imbalance. There is a muscle in the foot that extends the toes muscle in the foot that extends the toes muscle in the foot that extends the toes and there's also one that curls the and there's also one that curls the and there's also one that curls the toes. So when we become flexor dominant, toes. So when we become flexor dominant, toes. So when we become flexor dominant, footwear, foot weakness, we can't extend footwear, foot weakness, we can't extend footwear, foot weakness, we can't extend the toes. the toes. the toes. >> Yeah. So that exercise is very good to >> Yeah. So that exercise is very good to >> Yeah. So that exercise is very good to start to get that spllay. start to get that spllay. start to get that spllay. For people who've had nuromomas For people who've had nuromomas For people who've had nuromomas where there's um an inflammation in one where there's um an inflammation in one where there's um an inflammation in one of the nerves in the feet, of the nerves in the feet, of the nerves in the feet, the toes will actually start to split. the toes will actually start to split. the toes will actually start to split. If there's a you it's a sign where the If there's a you it's a sign where the If there's a you it's a sign where the second and third toes for example second and third toes for example second and third toes for example that'll the toes will start to split that'll the toes will start to split that'll the toes will start to split because the body's making room because the body's making room because the body's making room >> for that nuroma. These are all little >> for that nuroma. These are all little >> for that nuroma. These are all little things to pay attention to. You have to things to pay attention to. You have to things to pay attention to. You have to be able to lift the toes and spread them be able to lift the toes and spread them be able to lift the toes and spread them and spllay them. It and spllay them. It and spllay them. It >> So these exercises they're they're >> So these exercises they're they're >> So these exercises they're they're assessment exercises assessment exercises assessment exercises >> and treatment. >> and treatment. >> and treatment. >> They're therapeutic exercises. Correct. >> They're therapeutic exercises. Correct. >> They're therapeutic exercises. Correct. I love that. I love that. I love that. >> Yes. It's can you do this? >> Yes. It's can you do this? >> Yes. It's can you do this? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if you can't practice. >> And if you can't practice. >> And if you can't practice. >> Interesting enough, had you been here 5 >> Interesting enough, had you been here 5 >> Interesting enough, had you been here 5 years ago, you would have seen very years ago, you would have seen very years ago, you would have seen very different feets. So, as you said before, different feets. So, as you said before, different feets. So, as you said before, it takes decades of, I guess, abuse to it takes decades of, I guess, abuse to it takes decades of, I guess, abuse to these feet to get them a certain way. these feet to get them a certain way. these feet to get them a certain way. It's It's probably not going to reverse. It's It's probably not going to reverse. It's It's probably not going to reverse. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> In six months, >> In six months, >> In six months, >> but it's well well worth it on the other >> but it's well well worth it on the other >> but it's well well worth it on the other end. end. end. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> I had a really cool experience since >> I had a really cool experience since >> I had a really cool experience since I've been here. I was at a um a workout I've been here. I was at a um a workout I've been here. I was at a um a workout class in London and I'm sitting there class in London and I'm sitting there class in London and I'm sitting there having coffee and someone said to me, having coffee and someone said to me, having coffee and someone said to me, "Dr. Connley "Dr. Connley "Dr. Connley and I and I turned around and I thought and I and I turned around and I thought and I and I turned around and I thought he was in um the running class that I he was in um the running class that I he was in um the running class that I did the day before, but he wasn't." And did the day before, but he wasn't." And did the day before, but he wasn't." And he said, "I just want to thank you." And he said, "I just want to thank you." And he said, "I just want to thank you." And I said, "Oh," I said, "This is an I said, "Oh," I said, "This is an I said, "Oh," I said, "This is an honor." And he said, "I had patellar honor." And he said, "I had patellar honor." And he said, "I had patellar tendinitis for a very long time and I tendinitis for a very long time and I tendinitis for a very long time and I started doing your foot exercises that I started doing your foot exercises that I started doing your foot exercises that I saw on Instagram and YouTube." He's saw on Instagram and YouTube." He's saw on Instagram and YouTube." He's like, "And paying attention to my foot like, "And paying attention to my foot like, "And paying attention to my foot has significantly helped my knee pain." has significantly helped my knee pain." has significantly helped my knee pain." He's like, "I no longer have knee pain." He's like, "I no longer have knee pain." He's like, "I no longer have knee pain." >> And I'm like, "This is my heart. It was >> And I'm like, "This is my heart. It was >> And I'm like, "This is my heart. It was those are the stories I live for because those are the stories I live for because those are the stories I live for because I hear them all the time." Whether it's I hear them all the time." Whether it's I hear them all the time." Whether it's your foot or your knee or your hip or your foot or your knee or your hip or your foot or your knee or your hip or your back, paying attention to this part your back, paying attention to this part your back, paying attention to this part of our bodies has such a massive of our bodies has such a massive of our bodies has such a massive implication on everybody all the way up implication on everybody all the way up implication on everybody all the way up the chain. the chain. the chain. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And how beautiful is that that they >> And how beautiful is that that they >> And how beautiful is that that they didn't even have to go and see you in didn't even have to go and see you in didn't even have to go and see you in your clinic. your clinic. your clinic. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. Of course, it's great if people >> Right. Of course, it's great if people >> Right. Of course, it's great if people can, but isn't it so wonderful that can, but isn't it so wonderful that can, but isn't it so wonderful that >> you can just pop a video out on >> you can just pop a video out on >> you can just pop a video out on Instagram or YouTube and Instagram or YouTube and Instagram or YouTube and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> someone 3,000 miles away from where you >> someone 3,000 miles away from where you >> someone 3,000 miles away from where you live consumed it, live consumed it, live consumed it, >> did the exercises, and suddenly their >> did the exercises, and suddenly their >> did the exercises, and suddenly their knees better. It's a knees better. It's a knees better. It's a >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> That's awesome. >> It's It was awesome. It I I mean it was >> It's It was awesome. It I I mean it was >> It's It was awesome. It I I mean it was It was so great. It was so great. It was so great. >> Okay, so we've got toe going up. >> Okay, so we've got toe going up. >> Okay, so we've got toe going up. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Big toe, sorry. Going up. And one thing >> Big toe, sorry. Going up. And one thing >> Big toe, sorry. Going up. And one thing I haven't mentioned yet, but I wrote I haven't mentioned yet, but I wrote I haven't mentioned yet, but I wrote this down because I thought it was I've this down because I thought it was I've this down because I thought it was I've never heard it put like that before. In never heard it put like that before. In never heard it put like that before. In your book, you say the big toe is your book, you say the big toe is your book, you say the big toe is possibly the most important joint in possibly the most important joint in possibly the most important joint in your body. And you've got a bias, of your body. And you've got a bias, of your body. And you've got a bias, of course. Yes. course. Yes. course. Yes. >> But I thought that was great. And you >> But I thought that was great. And you >> But I thought that was great. And you say it's more than just a joint. It's a say it's more than just a joint. It's a say it's more than just a joint. It's a demonstration of how far we've come as demonstration of how far we've come as demonstration of how far we've come as humans in movement, resilience, and humans in movement, resilience, and humans in movement, resilience, and evolution. evolution. evolution. >> That is beautiful. Can you can you just >> That is beautiful. Can you can you just >> That is beautiful. Can you can you just sort of explain that for us? sort of explain that for us? sort of explain that for us? If you look at how the big toe has If you look at how the big toe has If you look at how the big toe has evolved and how important it is in evolved and how important it is in evolved and how important it is in bipedal locomotion, bipedal locomotion, bipedal locomotion, it is the part of our bodies that it is the part of our bodies that it is the part of our bodies that stabilizes us as we move forward. It's stabilizes us as we move forward. It's stabilizes us as we move forward. It's the part of our bodies that we propel the part of our bodies that we propel the part of our bodies that we propel forward when we have good range of forward when we have good range of forward when we have good range of motion at that joint. So, I'm going to motion at that joint. So, I'm going to motion at that joint. So, I'm going to get a little technical here. get a little technical here. get a little technical here. >> It's okay. the range of motion of the >> It's okay. the range of motion of the >> It's okay. the range of motion of the big toe. If you look at how much range big toe. If you look at how much range big toe. If you look at how much range we should have we should have we should have studies 60 65 70 so in the higher range studies 60 65 70 so in the higher range studies 60 65 70 so in the higher range of motion there of motion there of motion there >> 65 to 70 degrees off >> 65 to 70 degrees off >> 65 to 70 degrees off >> off the ground >> off the ground >> off the ground >> off the ground so that would be >> off the ground so that would be >> off the ground so that would be extension extension extension >> yes in a walking gate we need about 40 >> yes in a walking gate we need about 40 >> yes in a walking gate we need about 40 to 45° to 45° to 45° >> okay >> okay >> okay >> to have efficiency. >> to have efficiency. >> to have efficiency. So walking is considered a mid-range So walking is considered a mid-range So walking is considered a mid-range range of motion activity. Meaning our range of motion activity. Meaning our range of motion activity. Meaning our joints go to a certain range of motion, joints go to a certain range of motion, joints go to a certain range of motion, but we don't take them to its end range. but we don't take them to its end range. but we don't take them to its end range. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. If someone has a restriction in that big If someone has a restriction in that big If someone has a restriction in that big toe, toe, toe, so let's say they only have 20 degrees, so let's say they only have 20 degrees, so let's say they only have 20 degrees, you will not only see symptoms at the you will not only see symptoms at the you will not only see symptoms at the foot, but you will see symptoms at the foot, but you will see symptoms at the foot, but you will see symptoms at the knee, at the hip, and at the low back. knee, at the hip, and at the low back. knee, at the hip, and at the low back. >> And how common is it for people to have >> And how common is it for people to have >> And how common is it for people to have issues with their big toe? issues with their big toe? issues with their big toe? >> It's probably second to heel pain, >> It's probably second to heel pain, >> It's probably second to heel pain, probably one of the most common probably one of the most common probably one of the most common diagnoses I see. diagnoses I see. diagnoses I see. And of course you're seeing people who And of course you're seeing people who And of course you're seeing people who are struggling, right? So you're not are struggling, right? So you're not are struggling, right? So you're not necessarily seeing the general public necessarily seeing the general public necessarily seeing the general public healthy population. You're you're you're healthy population. You're you're you're healthy population. You're you're you're it's slightly skewed because people are it's slightly skewed because people are it's slightly skewed because people are coming in with a problem. coming in with a problem. coming in with a problem. >> That's why this assessment is so >> That's why this assessment is so >> That's why this assessment is so important. important. important. >> What that first one you mentioned where >> What that first one you mentioned where >> What that first one you mentioned where you keep the four toes down and you see you keep the four toes down and you see you keep the four toes down and you see how far you can lift the the big toe up. how far you can lift the the big toe up. how far you can lift the the big toe up. >> If you do that and there's a pinching in >> If you do that and there's a pinching in >> If you do that and there's a pinching in the top of the joint, so let's say I go the top of the joint, so let's say I go the top of the joint, so let's say I go to lift my big toe. to lift my big toe. to lift my big toe. >> Yeah. and you're like, "Wow, it's kind >> Yeah. and you're like, "Wow, it's kind >> Yeah. and you're like, "Wow, it's kind of pinching at the top of the big toe." of pinching at the top of the big toe." of pinching at the top of the big toe." You need to pay attention to that You need to pay attention to that You need to pay attention to that because something is going on that's because something is going on that's because something is going on that's saying, "I don't like extending. It's saying, "I don't like extending. It's saying, "I don't like extending. It's not to be ignored." not to be ignored." not to be ignored." >> That's the key thing, isn't it? It's not >> That's the key thing, isn't it? It's not >> That's the key thing, isn't it? It's not to be ignored. Don't because you do it. to be ignored. Don't because you do it. to be ignored. Don't because you do it. Don't just switch off and go, "Oh, screw Don't just switch off and go, "Oh, screw Don't just switch off and go, "Oh, screw it. I'm not going to pay attention." it. I'm not going to pay attention." it. I'm not going to pay attention." It's like, "No, no, you're storing. It's like, "No, no, you're storing. It's like, "No, no, you're storing. You're kicking the can down the road, as You're kicking the can down the road, as You're kicking the can down the road, as we'd say in this country." we'd say in this country." we'd say in this country." >> Yes. And here's the here's the next >> Yes. And here's the here's the next >> Yes. And here's the here's the next layer to that. Oh, my big toe hurts when layer to that. Oh, my big toe hurts when layer to that. Oh, my big toe hurts when I extend it. You go buy a shoe and then I extend it. You go buy a shoe and then I extend it. You go buy a shoe and then you buy a shoe that doesn't have a lot you buy a shoe that doesn't have a lot you buy a shoe that doesn't have a lot of flexibility in the toe box and you of flexibility in the toe box and you of flexibility in the toe box and you put the shoe on and you say, "Great, my put the shoe on and you say, "Great, my put the shoe on and you say, "Great, my toe doesn't hurt at all. It's not toe doesn't hurt at all. It's not toe doesn't hurt at all. It's not pinching." pinching." pinching." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so they say, "Oh, great. I'm just >> And so they say, "Oh, great. I'm just >> And so they say, "Oh, great. I'm just going to wear this shoe all the time." going to wear this shoe all the time." going to wear this shoe all the time." So then they come home, they take that So then they come home, they take that So then they come home, they take that shoe off, they walk barefoot. Oh, shoe off, they walk barefoot. Oh, shoe off, they walk barefoot. Oh, there's the pinching again. I better go there's the pinching again. I better go there's the pinching again. I better go grab my shoe and now wear it in the grab my shoe and now wear it in the grab my shoe and now wear it in the house. house. house. And now that joint And now that joint And now that joint is not even getting to the range of is not even getting to the range of is not even getting to the range of motion that it had. motion that it had. motion that it had. And then we start to lose more and more And then we start to lose more and more And then we start to lose more and more range. You see the cycle there? range. You see the cycle there? range. You see the cycle there? >> Yeah. If you don't use it, you lose it. >> Yeah. If you don't use it, you lose it. >> Yeah. If you don't use it, you lose it. It's funny. This weekend I was just with It's funny. This weekend I was just with It's funny. This weekend I was just with my with my sort of best mates from uni. my with my sort of best mates from uni. my with my sort of best mates from uni. One of my friends was talking about his One of my friends was talking about his One of my friends was talking about his mom. mom. mom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Who, you know, she lives by herself and >> Who, you know, she lives by herself and >> Who, you know, she lives by herself and he was just saying, "Yeah, we might have he was just saying, "Yeah, we might have he was just saying, "Yeah, we might have to um move us somewhere where there to um move us somewhere where there to um move us somewhere where there aren't stairs. aren't stairs. aren't stairs. And all I said to him is, you know, I And all I said to him is, you know, I And all I said to him is, you know, I said, I think about this a lot, like said, I think about this a lot, like said, I think about this a lot, like it's stairs are difficult for some it's stairs are difficult for some it's stairs are difficult for some people as they get older, but what I've people as they get older, but what I've people as they get older, but what I've seen so many times is of course you seen so many times is of course you seen so many times is of course you don't want anyone to fall and hurt don't want anyone to fall and hurt don't want anyone to fall and hurt themselves, themselves, themselves, >> but the problem is there's a cost to >> but the problem is there's a cost to >> but the problem is there's a cost to security, isn't there? You remove the security, isn't there? You remove the security, isn't there? You remove the stairs stairs stairs >> and suddenly they're not using those >> and suddenly they're not using those >> and suddenly they're not using those muscles at all anymore. Like I remember muscles at all anymore. Like I remember muscles at all anymore. Like I remember when my mom used to go up and down the when my mom used to go up and down the when my mom used to go up and down the stairs. It's like she's at, you know, it stairs. It's like she's at, you know, it stairs. It's like she's at, you know, it would be slow. It would take a while, would be slow. It would take a while, would be slow. It would take a while, but I'm like this is good. She's like but I'm like this is good. She's like but I'm like this is good. She's like using her quads, not only going going using her quads, not only going going using her quads, not only going going up, going down up, going down up, going down >> magic. You know, you're having to really >> magic. You know, you're having to really >> magic. You know, you're having to really control the descent. control the descent. control the descent. >> And I wasn't giving him advice. You >> And I wasn't giving him advice. You >> And I wasn't giving him advice. You know, you know, I'm sure there'll be an know, you know, I'm sure there'll be an know, you know, I'm sure there'll be an OT, an occupational therapist, you know, OT, an occupational therapist, you know, OT, an occupational therapist, you know, fantastic profession who will be fantastic profession who will be fantastic profession who will be properly assessing what needs to be properly assessing what needs to be properly assessing what needs to be done. But done. But done. But >> you know what I'm saying? You don't want >> you know what I'm saying? You don't want >> you know what I'm saying? You don't want people to fall. people to fall. people to fall. >> You have to get a little uncomfortable. >> You have to get a little uncomfortable. >> You have to get a little uncomfortable. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> you do. And I have a story of that in >> you do. And I have a story of that in >> you do. And I have a story of that in the book where I had a the book where I had a the book where I had a >> patient who was told to sell her house >> patient who was told to sell her house >> patient who was told to sell her house and buy a ranch. and buy a ranch. and buy a ranch. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I hear that a lot. And I would >> And I hear that a lot. And I would >> And I hear that a lot. And I would rather have the conversation, especially rather have the conversation, especially rather have the conversation, especially with movement variability. There's so with movement variability. There's so with movement variability. There's so many different ways we can move. So many different ways we can move. So many different ways we can move. So rather than have the conversation of you rather than have the conversation of you rather than have the conversation of you can't do this, can't do this, can't do this, how can we get you to do that? I think how can we get you to do that? I think how can we get you to do that? I think the the squat is a very good example. the the squat is a very good example. the the squat is a very good example. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, you can't squat. Don't squat >> Um, you can't squat. Don't squat >> Um, you can't squat. Don't squat for whatever reason. Sitting on a for whatever reason. Sitting on a for whatever reason. Sitting on a toilet, sitting in a chair is a squat. toilet, sitting in a chair is a squat. toilet, sitting in a chair is a squat. >> So, we have to train instead of saying >> So, we have to train instead of saying >> So, we have to train instead of saying don't do that. don't do that. don't do that. >> Yeah. So, wouldn't it be nice? And >> Yeah. So, wouldn't it be nice? And >> Yeah. So, wouldn't it be nice? And again, I'm not saying, you know, there again, I'm not saying, you know, there again, I'm not saying, you know, there there's amazing health care there's amazing health care there's amazing health care professionals out there who are who are professionals out there who are who are professionals out there who are who are probably doing this already, but just probably doing this already, but just probably doing this already, but just that mindset shift. Just be very careful that mindset shift. Just be very careful that mindset shift. Just be very careful before you make your life before you make your life before you make your life >> in advert more safe and easy. There is, >> in advert more safe and easy. There is, >> in advert more safe and easy. There is, as you said before, there's a as you said before, there's a as you said before, there's a consequence to everything. consequence to everything. consequence to everything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, you choose a certain footwear. >> You know, you choose a certain footwear. >> You know, you choose a certain footwear. There's a consequence. There's a consequence. There's a consequence. >> Just be aware of that. That kind of >> Just be aware of that. That kind of >> Just be aware of that. That kind of relates to walking, doesn't it? Is this relates to walking, doesn't it? Is this relates to walking, doesn't it? Is this I mean I don't know if you know what I mean I don't know if you know what I mean I don't know if you know what your take is on this but to my your take is on this but to my your take is on this but to my understanding or certainly to my understanding or certainly to my understanding or certainly to my knowledge knowledge knowledge the complexity in walking the complexity in walking the complexity in walking for a human being to walk still hasn't for a human being to walk still hasn't for a human being to walk still hasn't been able to be replicated by a robot been able to be replicated by a robot been able to be replicated by a robot that to my understanding I mean maybe that to my understanding I mean maybe that to my understanding I mean maybe that's changed now but it just speaks to that's changed now but it just speaks to that's changed now but it just speaks to what a phenomenal what a phenomenal what a phenomenal um movement just just walking is and um movement just just walking is and um movement just just walking is and >> it's very complex very complex. >> it's very complex very complex. >> it's very complex very complex. >> We don't think about it because it's >> We don't think about it because it's >> We don't think about it because it's just something that we do like just something that we do like just something that we do like breathing. breathing. breathing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it's a very complex movement. >> But it's a very complex movement. >> But it's a very complex movement. There's a lot happening between what There's a lot happening between what There's a lot happening between what we're visually seeing, what we're we're visually seeing, what we're we're visually seeing, what we're hearing, our vestibular inputs, what hearing, our vestibular inputs, what hearing, our vestibular inputs, what we're feeling. So, we're gathering all we're feeling. So, we're gathering all we're feeling. So, we're gathering all this information and we're integrating this information and we're integrating this information and we're integrating it. And to see a walking gate, I think, it. And to see a walking gate, I think, it. And to see a walking gate, I think, is, you know, I could study it forever. is, you know, I could study it forever. is, you know, I could study it forever. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> because there's a lot of information you >> because there's a lot of information you >> because there's a lot of information you can get. can get. can get. >> In terms of practical exercises, we we >> In terms of practical exercises, we we >> In terms of practical exercises, we we can't clearly can't cover all of the can't clearly can't cover all of the can't clearly can't cover all of the ones that are in the book. Um, we ones that are in the book. Um, we ones that are in the book. Um, we mentioned a few things so far. There's mentioned a few things so far. There's mentioned a few things so far. There's there's a couple I just wanted to bring there's a couple I just wanted to bring there's a couple I just wanted to bring up. um one I've already mentioned that up. um one I've already mentioned that up. um one I've already mentioned that single leg calf raise single leg calf raise single leg calf raise >> that you you have in the book a table >> that you you have in the book a table >> that you you have in the book a table that you know at different ages what that you know at different ages what that you know at different ages what should you be able to do should you be able to do should you be able to do >> and I think that's an exercise probably >> and I think that's an exercise probably >> and I think that's an exercise probably like the ones you've already mentioned like the ones you've already mentioned like the ones you've already mentioned that can be an assessment tool and a that can be an assessment tool and a that can be an assessment tool and a training tool training tool training tool >> right so you do it >> right so you do it >> right so you do it >> what are the cheats that people do >> what are the cheats that people do >> what are the cheats that people do without realizing it okay so because I without realizing it okay so because I without realizing it okay so because I think I was doing one without realizing think I was doing one without realizing think I was doing one without realizing it right so you're on one leg you're it right so you're on one leg you're it right so you're on one leg you're lightly touching the wall. lightly touching the wall. lightly touching the wall. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Why why is it important that you lightly >> Why why is it important that you lightly >> Why why is it important that you lightly touch the wall? touch the wall? touch the wall? >> It's not balance. We're not looking at >> It's not balance. We're not looking at >> It's not balance. We're not looking at balance. We want to have a little bit of balance. We want to have a little bit of balance. We want to have a little bit of control. control. control. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> and how high should you come up? >> and how high should you come up? >> and how high should you come up? >> When you look at the height of the calf >> When you look at the height of the calf >> When you look at the height of the calf raise, you want to get to the ball of raise, you want to get to the ball of raise, you want to get to the ball of the foot. And when you look at the ball the foot. And when you look at the ball the foot. And when you look at the ball of the foot, it should be flat on the of the foot, it should be flat on the of the foot, it should be flat on the ground. ground. ground. >> Okay? So often times when I see someone >> Okay? So often times when I see someone >> Okay? So often times when I see someone do a calf raise, when they get to the do a calf raise, when they get to the do a calf raise, when they get to the ball of their foot, it's almost like it ball of their foot, it's almost like it ball of their foot, it's almost like it looks like they're going to sprain their looks like they're going to sprain their looks like they're going to sprain their ankle. ankle. ankle. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So that's telling me, hm, have they ever >> So that's telling me, hm, have they ever >> So that's telling me, hm, have they ever sprained their ankle? sprained their ankle? sprained their ankle? Do they have poor ever strength? Can Do they have poor ever strength? Can Do they have poor ever strength? Can they not get to their big toe? they not get to their big toe? they not get to their big toe? Do they have a pinching at the big toe Do they have a pinching at the big toe Do they have a pinching at the big toe that's preventing them from getting to that's preventing them from getting to that's preventing them from getting to the ball of the foot? You know what's the ball of the foot? You know what's the ball of the foot? You know what's funny, Courtney, as you're saying that, funny, Courtney, as you're saying that, funny, Courtney, as you're saying that, you saw some uh you saw some uh you saw some uh >> I mean, I'm aware of these issues >> I mean, I'm aware of these issues >> I mean, I'm aware of these issues already, but I'm working on them on my already, but I'm working on them on my already, but I'm working on them on my right foot, but that's where I've always right foot, but that's where I've always right foot, but that's where I've always had my symptoms. I used to sprain my had my symptoms. I used to sprain my had my symptoms. I used to sprain my ankle, my right ankle. I used to play ankle, my right ankle. I used to play ankle, my right ankle. I used to play competitive squash as a teenager, competitive squash as a teenager, competitive squash as a teenager, >> and every you know, with not, you know, >> and every you know, with not, you know, >> and every you know, with not, you know, with with with with with with alarming regularity, I would sprain my alarming regularity, I would sprain my alarming regularity, I would sprain my right ankle. So, you know, there's right ankle. So, you know, there's right ankle. So, you know, there's probably, you know, was it the foot probably, you know, was it the foot probably, you know, was it the foot problems that caused the sprains? Was it problems that caused the sprains? Was it problems that caused the sprains? Was it the sprain that has caused issues that I the sprain that has caused issues that I the sprain that has caused issues that I haven't properly rehad? Probably a bit haven't properly rehad? Probably a bit haven't properly rehad? Probably a bit of both. Who knows? But but it's of both. Who knows? But but it's of both. Who knows? But but it's interesting, isn't it? interesting, isn't it? interesting, isn't it? >> Yeah. You can always whenever I'm >> Yeah. You can always whenever I'm >> Yeah. You can always whenever I'm assessing someone's gate, you can you assessing someone's gate, you can you assessing someone's gate, you can you can tell the gate of someone with can tell the gate of someone with can tell the gate of someone with chronic sprains. It's their foot has, chronic sprains. It's their foot has, chronic sprains. It's their foot has, you know, the ligaments heal. The you know, the ligaments heal. The you know, the ligaments heal. The propriception, how they feel the ground. propriception, how they feel the ground. propriception, how they feel the ground. That is what also needs to be retrained. That is what also needs to be retrained. That is what also needs to be retrained. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so that's important. Getting them to >> And so that's important. Getting them to >> And so that's important. Getting them to feel where their big toe is again. You feel where their big toe is again. You feel where their big toe is again. You can see that in a calf raise if they can see that in a calf raise if they can see that in a calf raise if they don't have that good controller don't have that good controller don't have that good controller strength. strength. strength. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So height is one. You'll see people try >> So height is one. You'll see people try >> So height is one. You'll see people try to bend their knees. to bend their knees. to bend their knees. >> You'll see them try. >> You'll see them try. >> You'll see them try. >> You want a straight leg. You don't want >> You want a straight leg. You don't want >> You want a straight leg. You don't want any any any >> through the foot. It's it we're not >> through the foot. It's it we're not >> through the foot. It's it we're not trying to gain momentum and lean into trying to gain momentum and lean into trying to gain momentum and lean into the wall. the wall. the wall. >> And you've got some of these videos on >> And you've got some of these videos on >> And you've got some of these videos on your Instagram, have you? Yeah. your Instagram, have you? Yeah. your Instagram, have you? Yeah. >> Yeah. And we'll shoot some after as well >> Yeah. And we'll shoot some after as well >> Yeah. And we'll shoot some after as well and put them on on mine when the when and put them on on mine when the when and put them on on mine when the when the podcast comes out so people can see the podcast comes out so people can see the podcast comes out so people can see that. So you can assess that if you're that. So you can assess that if you're that. So you can assess that if you're not where you want to be or even if you not where you want to be or even if you not where you want to be or even if you are, you can work on that, get better at are, you can work on that, get better at are, you can work on that, get better at it. it. it. >> The one maybe >> The one maybe >> The one maybe >> that I wanted to finish off with is this >> that I wanted to finish off with is this >> that I wanted to finish off with is this is the single leg balance test. is the single leg balance test. is the single leg balance test. >> And what I found really interesting >> And what I found really interesting >> And what I found really interesting >> is well in that section you make the >> is well in that section you make the >> is well in that section you make the case that when you're walking, case that when you're walking, case that when you're walking, >> is it for 40% of the cycle you're on one >> is it for 40% of the cycle you're on one >> is it for 40% of the cycle you're on one leg? So you you have to be able to leg? So you you have to be able to leg? So you you have to be able to balance just to walk, right? balance just to walk, right? balance just to walk, right? But you were saying in that section But you were saying in that section But you were saying in that section which I found fascinating, the feet which I found fascinating, the feet which I found fascinating, the feet contain four types of receptors contain four types of receptors contain four types of receptors to help you, I guess, feel the ground to help you, I guess, feel the ground to help you, I guess, feel the ground and feel where you are. and feel where you are. and feel where you are. >> And then you said this, and this got me >> And then you said this, and this got me >> And then you said this, and this got me probably cuz I'm 48, right? You said, probably cuz I'm 48, right? You said, probably cuz I'm 48, right? You said, "However, in the fifth decade of life, I "However, in the fifth decade of life, I "However, in the fifth decade of life, I thought fifth decade of life. Okay, I'm thought fifth decade of life. Okay, I'm thought fifth decade of life. Okay, I'm not 50 yet. not 50 yet. not 50 yet. >> I think she's talking about me. I think >> I think she's talking about me. I think >> I think she's talking about me. I think I'm in the fifth decade of life. I'm in the fifth decade of life. I'm in the fifth decade of life. You need 20% more pressure to stimulate You need 20% more pressure to stimulate You need 20% more pressure to stimulate those receptors. those receptors. those receptors. >> Okay. So, talk to us about balance, why >> Okay. So, talk to us about balance, why >> Okay. So, talk to us about balance, why it's so important for walking, and what it's so important for walking, and what it's so important for walking, and what is the relevance of that stat that when is the relevance of that stat that when is the relevance of that stat that when you get into your 40s, you need much you get into your 40s, you need much you get into your 40s, you need much more pressure to stimulate those more pressure to stimulate those more pressure to stimulate those receptors. receptors. receptors. >> Again, thinking about the foot like we >> Again, thinking about the foot like we >> Again, thinking about the foot like we think of the rest of the body. think of the rest of the body. think of the rest of the body. We know when we age, sarcopenia is a We know when we age, sarcopenia is a We know when we age, sarcopenia is a factor. We lose muscle mass. factor. We lose muscle mass. factor. We lose muscle mass. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, we also that also occurs at the >> So, we also that also occurs at the >> So, we also that also occurs at the foot. So, we have a foot that's starting foot. So, we have a foot that's starting foot. So, we have a foot that's starting to decrease strength. to decrease strength. to decrease strength. When we turn 50, all of those sensory When we turn 50, all of those sensory When we turn 50, all of those sensory receptors on the bottoms of the feet, receptors on the bottoms of the feet, receptors on the bottoms of the feet, those also start to dull, if you will. those also start to dull, if you will. those also start to dull, if you will. So, it takes 20 25% more pressure So, it takes 20 25% more pressure So, it takes 20 25% more pressure to stimulate those receptors. When to stimulate those receptors. When to stimulate those receptors. When >> you say 50, it's the fifth decade. Your >> you say 50, it's the fifth decade. Your >> you say 50, it's the fifth decade. Your 40s or is it your 40s or is it your 40s or is it your >> 50 years old? So, >> 50 years old? So, >> 50 years old? So, >> 50. Oh, 50. >> 50. Oh, 50. >> 50. Oh, 50. >> Oh, I'm good. I'm good. I should have >> Oh, I'm good. I'm good. I should have >> Oh, I'm good. I'm good. I should have ignored that bit. I'm good. I've got a ignored that bit. I'm good. I've got a ignored that bit. I'm good. I've got a few more years left. Hey, I'm rocking at few more years left. Hey, I'm rocking at few more years left. Hey, I'm rocking at the moment. Good. the moment. Good. the moment. Good. >> Yes, this is the conversation. So, we >> Yes, this is the conversation. So, we >> Yes, this is the conversation. So, we got to convince you that you need to pay got to convince you that you need to pay got to convince you that you need to pay attention to this now. attention to this now. attention to this now. >> Um, so in the fifth decade, when you >> Um, so in the fifth decade, when you >> Um, so in the fifth decade, when you turn 50, you start to lose sensitivity turn 50, you start to lose sensitivity turn 50, you start to lose sensitivity to these receptors. This is how quickly to these receptors. This is how quickly to these receptors. This is how quickly things escalate. When you turn 80, that things escalate. When you turn 80, that things escalate. When you turn 80, that number's 75%. number's 75%. number's 75%. >> Yeah. So, the the feet, they kind of >> Yeah. So, the the feet, they kind of >> Yeah. So, the the feet, they kind of dull. dull. dull. >> They dull. >> They dull. >> They dull. >> Here's the good news. >> Here's the good news. >> Here's the good news. Guess what increases Guess what increases Guess what increases sensory nerve fiber branching in the sensory nerve fiber branching in the sensory nerve fiber branching in the foot? foot? foot? >> Movement and walking. >> Movement and walking. >> Movement and walking. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Exercise increases circulation increases >> Exercise increases circulation increases >> Exercise increases circulation increases nerve fiber branching increases nerve fiber branching increases nerve fiber branching increases sensation. sensation. sensation. So, the here's the hope conversation. So, the here's the hope conversation. So, the here's the hope conversation. We are all going to age. We are all going to age. We are all going to age. But when you strengthen your foot and But when you strengthen your foot and But when you strengthen your foot and you can improve the sensations at your you can improve the sensations at your you can improve the sensations at your feet, you're going to be able to walk feet, you're going to be able to walk feet, you're going to be able to walk well. You're going to be able to walk well. You're going to be able to walk well. You're going to be able to walk long and you're going to decrease your long and you're going to decrease your long and you're going to decrease your risks of falls. That to me, sign me up risks of falls. That to me, sign me up risks of falls. That to me, sign me up for that. for that. for that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Have you had cases Have you had cases Have you had cases in your clinic of people with neuropathy in your clinic of people with neuropathy in your clinic of people with neuropathy already? So they've maybe they've had already? So they've maybe they've had already? So they've maybe they've had high blood sugar as well. Maybe you know high blood sugar as well. Maybe you know high blood sugar as well. Maybe you know type maybe they've been diagnosed type type maybe they've been diagnosed type type maybe they've been diagnosed type maybe not or they've got peripheral maybe not or they've got peripheral maybe not or they've got peripheral neuropathy from some sort of illness neuropathy from some sort of illness neuropathy from some sort of illness where effectively the nerves where effectively the nerves where effectively the nerves >> aren't working as well as you would want >> aren't working as well as you would want >> aren't working as well as you would want them to. Have you had patients who've them to. Have you had patients who've them to. Have you had patients who've come in like that and the exercises come in like that and the exercises come in like that and the exercises you've recommended have helped improve you've recommended have helped improve you've recommended have helped improve things? things? things? >> There are so many treatments. Neuropathy >> There are so many treatments. Neuropathy >> There are so many treatments. Neuropathy is a difficult diagnosis as you know. is a difficult diagnosis as you know. is a difficult diagnosis as you know. >> There are a lot of um treatments that >> There are a lot of um treatments that >> There are a lot of um treatments that help or so they say help neuropathies help or so they say help neuropathies help or so they say help neuropathies and they very well might. My patients and they very well might. My patients and they very well might. My patients that I have seen, that I have seen, that I have seen, they really struggle. But what they the they really struggle. But what they the they really struggle. But what they the one thing that has helped these people one thing that has helped these people one thing that has helped these people consistently is exercising their foot, consistently is exercising their foot, consistently is exercising their foot, increasing circulation to their foot, increasing circulation to their foot, increasing circulation to their foot, and then they can add all the other and then they can add all the other and then they can add all the other things, the red light and their things, the red light and their things, the red light and their supplements and everything else that supplements and everything else that supplements and everything else that they're doing. But if you don't have they're doing. But if you don't have they're doing. But if you don't have that component of exercise in that component of exercise in that component of exercise in conjunction with, conjunction with, conjunction with, I think you're you're missing a very big I think you're you're missing a very big I think you're you're missing a very big factor there. factor there. factor there. >> Goes back to the start of this >> Goes back to the start of this >> Goes back to the start of this conversation. Walking is a physiological conversation. Walking is a physiological conversation. Walking is a physiological necessity. necessity. necessity. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> That your body requires for survival. >> That your body requires for survival. >> That your body requires for survival. And arguably, And arguably, And arguably, >> it becomes more important as you get >> it becomes more important as you get >> it becomes more important as you get older. older. older. >> Yes. When you look at um as we age too, >> Yes. When you look at um as we age too, >> Yes. When you look at um as we age too, there is a dramatic decrease in the step there is a dramatic decrease in the step there is a dramatic decrease in the step counts that you will start to see as counts that you will start to see as counts that you will start to see as people age. And that's what I want to people age. And that's what I want to people age. And that's what I want to encourage people do. You don't have to encourage people do. You don't have to encourage people do. You don't have to get to that 10,000 marker. Even at 3,800 get to that 10,000 marker. Even at 3,800 get to that 10,000 marker. Even at 3,800 steps, 7,000 steps, you start to see steps, 7,000 steps, you start to see steps, 7,000 steps, you start to see these reduced risks of dementia and these reduced risks of dementia and these reduced risks of dementia and depression and cancer. It's like this depression and cancer. It's like this depression and cancer. It's like this sweet spot and we don't want to lose sweet spot and we don't want to lose sweet spot and we don't want to lose that capacity. that capacity. that capacity. >> Yeah. The stuff that maybe we won't get >> Yeah. The stuff that maybe we won't get >> Yeah. The stuff that maybe we won't get time to talk about today, but I I I time to talk about today, but I I I time to talk about today, but I I I found fascinating in the book this idea found fascinating in the book this idea found fascinating in the book this idea that, you know, it's not just walking. that, you know, it's not just walking. that, you know, it's not just walking. It's, you know, you have all these kind It's, you know, you have all these kind It's, you know, you have all these kind of things like roll the earth away, walk of things like roll the earth away, walk of things like roll the earth away, walk faster. When we walk taller, faster. When we walk taller, faster. When we walk taller, >> it lowers cortisol, improves memory. >> it lowers cortisol, improves memory. >> it lowers cortisol, improves memory. >> Uh there was this thing about walking >> Uh there was this thing about walking >> Uh there was this thing about walking softly. And I I I stopped and laughed softly. And I I I stopped and laughed softly. And I I I stopped and laughed when you said we've all got that family when you said we've all got that family when you said we've all got that family member who you can hear coming a mile member who you can hear coming a mile member who you can hear coming a mile away, mile away, you know, stomping away, mile away, you know, stomping away, mile away, you know, stomping around upstairs. I'm not going to around upstairs. I'm not going to around upstairs. I'm not going to mention any names, but you were sort of mention any names, but you were sort of mention any names, but you were sort of saying how they might have a heavy heel saying how they might have a heavy heel saying how they might have a heavy heel strike and how you can correct that. But strike and how you can correct that. But strike and how you can correct that. But also, I think you were talking about how also, I think you were talking about how also, I think you were talking about how there's research showing that as you get there's research showing that as you get there's research showing that as you get older, your walking speed goes down and older, your walking speed goes down and older, your walking speed goes down and it can predict dementia by seven years. it can predict dementia by seven years. it can predict dementia by seven years. >> I was just going to say we got to talk >> I was just going to say we got to talk >> I was just going to say we got to talk about walking speed. about walking speed. about walking speed. >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Yeah, let's do it. >> There were um a couple researchers in >> There were um a couple researchers in >> There were um a couple researchers in 2009 that proposed that walking speed 2009 that proposed that walking speed 2009 that proposed that walking speed should be the sixth vital sign. should be the sixth vital sign. should be the sixth vital sign. >> Yeah. So when we go to the doctor, we >> Yeah. So when we go to the doctor, we >> Yeah. So when we go to the doctor, we get our blood pressure, our heart rate, get our blood pressure, our heart rate, get our blood pressure, our heart rate, our respiration rate, our oxygen our respiration rate, our oxygen our respiration rate, our oxygen saturation. These are all vital signs saturation. These are all vital signs saturation. These are all vital signs that are taken at the very beginning of that are taken at the very beginning of that are taken at the very beginning of your appointment your appointment your appointment to see, hey, are there any red flags to see, hey, are there any red flags to see, hey, are there any red flags here? Is there anything going on with here? Is there anything going on with here? Is there anything going on with these vital signs that we need to be these vital signs that we need to be these vital signs that we need to be aware of because they will be predictors aware of because they will be predictors aware of because they will be predictors of a problem down the road. Walking of a problem down the road. Walking of a problem down the road. Walking speed speed speed should be in that category should be in that category should be in that category >> because that slower cadence when you see >> because that slower cadence when you see >> because that slower cadence when you see someone walking slower you need to start someone walking slower you need to start someone walking slower you need to start saying why are they doing that saying why are they doing that saying why are they doing that you can predict dementias by this slow you can predict dementias by this slow you can predict dementias by this slow cadence up to seven years the research cadence up to seven years the research cadence up to seven years the research will say will say will say >> does that mean >> does that mean >> does that mean a good annual practice or regular a good annual practice or regular a good annual practice or regular practice for all of us is to keep an eye practice for all of us is to keep an eye practice for all of us is to keep an eye on our walking speed. So on our walking speed. So on our walking speed. So >> to go around my block when I was 40 >> to go around my block when I was 40 >> to go around my block when I was 40 >> took me I don't know you know I'm just >> took me I don't know you know I'm just >> took me I don't know you know I'm just making up 30 minutes right let's say making up 30 minutes right let's say making up 30 minutes right let's say >> if when you're 45 >> if when you're 45 >> if when you're 45 that has taken you 36 minutes for that has taken you 36 minutes for that has taken you 36 minutes for example I mean that's probably quite a example I mean that's probably quite a example I mean that's probably quite a big decline even 32 minutes right big decline even 32 minutes right big decline even 32 minutes right what does that mean I mean because what does that mean I mean because what does that mean I mean because there's so many inputs to walking speed there's so many inputs to walking speed there's so many inputs to walking speed aren't there it's not just one thing it aren't there it's not just one thing it aren't there it's not just one thing it could be muscles nerves maybe you know could be muscles nerves maybe you know could be muscles nerves maybe you know your visual you maybe your eyes need you your visual you maybe your eyes need you your visual you maybe your eyes need you know could be all kinds of It says know could be all kinds of It says know could be all kinds of It says >> that's why it's such a good that's why >> that's why it's such a good that's why >> that's why it's such a good that's why it should be in that category of vital it should be in that category of vital it should be in that category of vital >> because why am I walking slowly? Is it >> because why am I walking slowly? Is it >> because why am I walking slowly? Is it because I'm starting to lose strength because I'm starting to lose strength because I'm starting to lose strength and power? That's a problem. We can and power? That's a problem. We can and power? That's a problem. We can address it. Am I afraid? Am I starting address it. Am I afraid? Am I starting address it. Am I afraid? Am I starting to lose balance? That's something that to lose balance? That's something that to lose balance? That's something that we can address when we identify it. Is we can address when we identify it. Is we can address when we identify it. Is it slow cognitive decline? Is it are we it slow cognitive decline? Is it are we it slow cognitive decline? Is it are we having are we seeing cognitive decline? having are we seeing cognitive decline? having are we seeing cognitive decline? because we know walking helps with because we know walking helps with because we know walking helps with cognitive decline. So just by looking at cognitive decline. So just by looking at cognitive decline. So just by looking at the speed of someone's gate can open up the speed of someone's gate can open up the speed of someone's gate can open up a lot of doors for opportunities for us a lot of doors for opportunities for us a lot of doors for opportunities for us to be better treating that patient. to be better treating that patient. to be better treating that patient. So if you were to walk, we want to see So if you were to walk, we want to see So if you were to walk, we want to see that number around 120 to 130 steps per that number around 120 to 130 steps per that number around 120 to 130 steps per minute. And it's not just can I do this minute. And it's not just can I do this minute. And it's not just can I do this for a minute. for a minute. for a minute. the research when you look at cancer the research when you look at cancer the research when you look at cancer risk reduction for example risk reduction for example risk reduction for example >> it's 30 minutes of brisk walking >> it's 30 minutes of brisk walking >> it's 30 minutes of brisk walking you're moving you're moving you're moving and so it might be great if you can walk and so it might be great if you can walk and so it might be great if you can walk around your block at that pace but we around your block at that pace but we around your block at that pace but we need sustained speed need sustained speed need sustained speed and I think that in itself is such a and I think that in itself is such a and I think that in itself is such a good thing for people to focus on I'll good thing for people to focus on I'll good thing for people to focus on I'll have patients get a metronome they can have patients get a metronome they can have patients get a metronome they can get it on their get it on their get it on their listen to that beat and have every listen to that beat and have every listen to that beat and have every footstep match that beat and I think you footstep match that beat and I think you footstep match that beat and I think you will find it's not uh as easy as some will find it's not uh as easy as some will find it's not uh as easy as some people think it is. people think it is. people think it is. >> It's absolutely mind-blowing. >> It's absolutely mind-blowing. >> It's absolutely mind-blowing. The other thing that I just wanted to The other thing that I just wanted to The other thing that I just wanted to add there is that and maybe links this add there is that and maybe links this add there is that and maybe links this to your foot exercises. One thing I've to your foot exercises. One thing I've to your foot exercises. One thing I've experienced when I go and see Helen is experienced when I go and see Helen is experienced when I go and see Helen is that because she measures me every time that because she measures me every time that because she measures me every time I'm there. So you will walk on the I'm there. So you will walk on the I'm there. So you will walk on the treadmill at a certain pace. treadmill at a certain pace. treadmill at a certain pace. >> What often happens is that when we >> What often happens is that when we >> What often happens is that when we identify identify identify the exercises for me to do and sometimes the exercises for me to do and sometimes the exercises for me to do and sometimes it's just literally five minutes a day. it's just literally five minutes a day. it's just literally five minutes a day. Yeah. Right. I'll do them five minutes a Yeah. Right. I'll do them five minutes a Yeah. Right. I'll do them five minutes a day for four weeks and then you know I day for four weeks and then you know I day for four weeks and then you know I might go back might go back might go back because my because my because my whole body efficiency has improved. I'm whole body efficiency has improved. I'm whole body efficiency has improved. I'm not trying to walk faster, but I'll go not trying to walk faster, but I'll go not trying to walk faster, but I'll go on and go, Helen, this feels really on and go, Helen, this feels really on and go, Helen, this feels really slow. slow. slow. >> So, I'm at the same speed as I was maybe >> So, I'm at the same speed as I was maybe >> So, I'm at the same speed as I was maybe six weeks ago when it felt, yeah, that six weeks ago when it felt, yeah, that six weeks ago when it felt, yeah, that feels really good. feels really good. feels really good. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I.e. my walking gate is improving. >> I.e. my walking gate is improving. >> I.e. my walking gate is improving. Not because I'm trying to improve it, Not because I'm trying to improve it, Not because I'm trying to improve it, but because I'm working on my feet and but because I'm working on my feet and but because I'm working on my feet and my other movements. I mean, do you know my other movements. I mean, do you know my other movements. I mean, do you know what I mean? It's what I mean? It's what I mean? It's >> it's power. Like that is something also >> it's power. Like that is something also >> it's power. Like that is something also that I think we forget is walking at a that I think we forget is walking at a that I think we forget is walking at a brisk pace is power training. And that brisk pace is power training. And that brisk pace is power training. And that is we lose power faster as we as we age is we lose power faster as we as we age is we lose power faster as we as we age than we lose strength. And that I think than we lose strength. And that I think than we lose strength. And that I think we need to pay attention between power we need to pay attention between power we need to pay attention between power and strength. and strength. and strength. >> So if I was going to be training >> So if I was going to be training >> So if I was going to be training strength in the gym, for example, strength in the gym, for example, strength in the gym, for example, slow heavy loads. Power is how fast can slow heavy loads. Power is how fast can slow heavy loads. Power is how fast can I move that weight I move that weight I move that weight >> with a speed component. So, for example, >> with a speed component. So, for example, >> with a speed component. So, for example, if I was going to do a lunge, if I was going to do a lunge, if I was going to do a lunge, >> if I was power training, I would go down >> if I was power training, I would go down >> if I was power training, I would go down for three counts. One, two, three. And for three counts. One, two, three. And for three counts. One, two, three. And then try to shoot up as fast as I can. then try to shoot up as fast as I can. then try to shoot up as fast as I can. >> We need that power. >> We need that power. >> We need that power. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that is one way to do it is by >> And that is one way to do it is by >> And that is one way to do it is by walking with a fast clip. walking with a fast clip. walking with a fast clip. That's exciting to me. That's exciting to me. That's exciting to me. >> I feel like we're just warming up, >> I feel like we're just warming up, >> I feel like we're just warming up, Courtney. Like, I have literally got so Courtney. Like, I have literally got so Courtney. Like, I have literally got so much to talk to you about. I feel we're much to talk to you about. I feel we're much to talk to you about. I feel we're only 10% of the way there, but it needs only 10% of the way there, but it needs only 10% of the way there, but it needs to be respectful of your time. Um, what to be respectful of your time. Um, what to be respectful of your time. Um, what have we covered so far? We've covered so have we covered so far? We've covered so have we covered so far? We've covered so much. We've made the case of why walking much. We've made the case of why walking much. We've made the case of why walking is is is not optional. It it is essential as not optional. It it is essential as not optional. It it is essential as essential as sleeping and breathing. essential as sleeping and breathing. essential as sleeping and breathing. Yes. Right. You've made that case. Yes. Right. You've made that case. Yes. Right. You've made that case. >> We've spoken about walking speed. We've >> We've spoken about walking speed. We've >> We've spoken about walking speed. We've spoken about the need to look after your spoken about the need to look after your spoken about the need to look after your feet. Choose the right footwear. And in feet. Choose the right footwear. And in feet. Choose the right footwear. And in terms of practical exercises, we've terms of practical exercises, we've terms of practical exercises, we've talked about, you know, assessment talked about, you know, assessment talked about, you know, assessment exercises that can also be therapeutic. exercises that can also be therapeutic. exercises that can also be therapeutic. So, how far does your big toe go up? How So, how far does your big toe go up? How So, how far does your big toe go up? How many calf raises can you do on the many calf raises can you do on the many calf raises can you do on the second in a minute? Um, single leg uh second in a minute? Um, single leg uh second in a minute? Um, single leg uh balance tests. We mentioned single leg balance tests. We mentioned single leg balance tests. We mentioned single leg calf raises. Yes, calf raises. Yes, calf raises. Yes, >> I've already mentioned calf raises. >> I've already mentioned calf raises. >> I've already mentioned calf raises. Okay. We mentioned a lot so far which Okay. We mentioned a lot so far which Okay. We mentioned a lot so far which hopefully has got people interested. hopefully has got people interested. hopefully has got people interested. You've also helped people uh understand You've also helped people uh understand You've also helped people uh understand how they might want to choose better how they might want to choose better how they might want to choose better footwear for their lives. So I think footwear for their lives. So I think footwear for their lives. So I think that was really interesting. Right at the end of this conversation, Right at the end of this conversation, what I hope is the first of many what I hope is the first of many what I hope is the first of many conversations conversations conversations for that person, Courtney, who has for that person, Courtney, who has for that person, Courtney, who has listened to us so far and has had the listened to us so far and has had the listened to us so far and has had the realization realization realization they've never ever paid attention to they've never ever paid attention to they've never ever paid attention to their foot health. they basically their foot health. they basically their foot health. they basically neglected it for the vast majority of neglected it for the vast majority of neglected it for the vast majority of their life and they're perhaps wondering their life and they're perhaps wondering their life and they're perhaps wondering is it too late for me to do anything is it too late for me to do anything is it too late for me to do anything about it. What would you say to them? about it. What would you say to them? about it. What would you say to them? >> It's never too late. It's the the >> It's never too late. It's the the >> It's never too late. It's the the beautiful thing about neuroplasticity. beautiful thing about neuroplasticity. beautiful thing about neuroplasticity. Our brains love novel stimulus. They Our brains love novel stimulus. They Our brains love novel stimulus. They love to learn new things. And I think love to learn new things. And I think love to learn new things. And I think that's such an encouraging um you know that's such an encouraging um you know that's such an encouraging um you know point is that it is never too late to point is that it is never too late to point is that it is never too late to drive new information to our brains. drive new information to our brains. drive new information to our brains. If you have never put your foot on the If you have never put your foot on the If you have never put your foot on the ground, if that's where your journey ground, if that's where your journey ground, if that's where your journey starts, start there. If you're more into starts, start there. If you're more into starts, start there. If you're more into this journey, you can always add more this journey, you can always add more this journey, you can always add more loads, walk faster. So there's somewhere loads, walk faster. So there's somewhere loads, walk faster. So there's somewhere this conversation is very inclusive. this conversation is very inclusive. this conversation is very inclusive. >> Yeah. because you really can find >> Yeah. because you really can find >> Yeah. because you really can find anywhere along the pathway to to start anywhere along the pathway to to start anywhere along the pathway to to start here. And I think walking should be here. And I think walking should be here. And I think walking should be viewed. It is the most easily viewed. It is the most easily viewed. It is the most easily accessible, underutilized accessible, underutilized accessible, underutilized treatment that we have at our hands. It treatment that we have at our hands. It treatment that we have at our hands. It should be on every physician's treatment should be on every physician's treatment should be on every physician's treatment protocol. It should be on every physical protocol. It should be on every physical protocol. It should be on every physical therapist's, you know, do these therapist's, you know, do these therapist's, you know, do these exercises because it's something that exercises because it's something that exercises because it's something that our body is craving to do as a human. It our body is craving to do as a human. It our body is craving to do as a human. It is what we were designed to do was to is what we were designed to do was to is what we were designed to do was to walk. We were born to walk. walk. We were born to walk. walk. We were born to walk. >> Yeah. Courtney, honestly, I think you're >> Yeah. Courtney, honestly, I think you're >> Yeah. Courtney, honestly, I think you're doing incredible work. The book, Walk doing incredible work. The book, Walk doing incredible work. The book, Walk Your Life Depends on It is absolutely Your Life Depends on It is absolutely Your Life Depends on It is absolutely fantastic. Honestly, I'm I'm such a fan fantastic. Honestly, I'm I'm such a fan fantastic. Honestly, I'm I'm such a fan of your work and what you're putting out of your work and what you're putting out of your work and what you're putting out in the book. in the book. in the book. >> We didn't get into your uh beautiful >> We didn't get into your uh beautiful >> We didn't get into your uh beautiful foot health kit today. Maybe we'll do foot health kit today. Maybe we'll do foot health kit today. Maybe we'll do that next time. But um can we just that next time. But um can we just that next time. But um can we just quickly go through what is in this? Um quickly go through what is in this? Um quickly go through what is in this? Um well, there's the book of course, but well, there's the book of course, but well, there's the book of course, but then your company or your clinic is then your company or your clinic is then your company or your clinic is called Gates Happens. called Gates Happens. called Gates Happens. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Where's that based? >> Where's that based? >> Where's that based? >> Colorado. We're pretty much online >> Colorado. We're pretty much online >> Colorado. We're pretty much online though. It's more of a though. It's more of a though. It's more of a >> So you're online? >> So you're online? >> So you're online? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And this foot health kit that you have >> And this foot health kit that you have >> And this foot health kit that you have that you've very kindly gifted me and I that you've very kindly gifted me and I that you've very kindly gifted me and I can't wait to look at it. can't wait to look at it. can't wait to look at it. >> What is in it and how does it help >> What is in it and how does it help >> What is in it and how does it help people? people? people? >> You know, we had the conversation of >> You know, we had the conversation of >> You know, we had the conversation of gosh, you know, now I need to strengthen gosh, you know, now I need to strengthen gosh, you know, now I need to strengthen my foot. It becomes this thing. So, what my foot. It becomes this thing. So, what my foot. It becomes this thing. So, what I wanted to do was make things very easy I wanted to do was make things very easy I wanted to do was make things very easy for people. Um, I have been wearing toe for people. Um, I have been wearing toe for people. Um, I have been wearing toe spacers for probably seven years spacers for probably seven years spacers for probably seven years consistently throughout the day. The consistently throughout the day. The consistently throughout the day. The only time you will not see them on my only time you will not see them on my only time you will not see them on my foot is when I'm sleeping. foot is when I'm sleeping. foot is when I'm sleeping. >> Why not when you're sleeping? >> Why not when you're sleeping? >> Why not when you're sleeping? >> Uh, I'm always my sleep is my priority. >> Uh, I'm always my sleep is my priority. >> Uh, I'm always my sleep is my priority. And so, I'm like, nothing's on my feet. And so, I'm like, nothing's on my feet. And so, I'm like, nothing's on my feet. I'm I'm focusing on sleeping. When I'm I'm focusing on sleeping. When I'm I'm focusing on sleeping. When you're wearing the toe spacers and you're wearing the toe spacers and you're wearing the toe spacers and you're actively on your foot, the you're actively on your foot, the you're actively on your foot, the tissues in the foot are moving. Mhm. tissues in the foot are moving. Mhm. tissues in the foot are moving. Mhm. >> So, they have um certain devices that >> So, they have um certain devices that >> So, they have um certain devices that you can wear when you're sleeping that you can wear when you're sleeping that you can wear when you're sleeping that will work passively, right? So, they'll will work passively, right? So, they'll will work passively, right? So, they'll work on stretching the foot. work on stretching the foot. work on stretching the foot. >> Um these are designed to be worn >> Um these are designed to be worn >> Um these are designed to be worn actively. actively. actively. >> So, you wear them and then you get on >> So, you wear them and then you get on >> So, you wear them and then you get on with your life. with your life. with your life. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Fascinating. um on my weaker foot when I >> Fascinating. um on my weaker foot when I >> Fascinating. um on my weaker foot when I first started wearing these. After about first started wearing these. After about first started wearing these. After about 10 minutes, I wanted to throw them 10 minutes, I wanted to throw them 10 minutes, I wanted to throw them across the room because then my toes across the room because then my toes across the room because then my toes were rubbing and it was so uncomfortable were rubbing and it was so uncomfortable were rubbing and it was so uncomfortable because I didn't have to spllay. So, it because I didn't have to spllay. So, it because I didn't have to spllay. So, it takes time. But now I run in them. I takes time. But now I run in them. I takes time. But now I run in them. I wear them all the time. wear them all the time. wear them all the time. >> Well, I saw you when you came into my >> Well, I saw you when you came into my >> Well, I saw you when you came into my house, you took your shoes off. You had house, you took your shoes off. You had house, you took your shoes off. You had >> the what are they called? The toe >> the what are they called? The toe >> the what are they called? The toe spacers. You had them in. spacers. You had them in. spacers. You had them in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you've got this little ball. Is that >> But you've got this little ball. Is that >> But you've got this little ball. Is that what is that to roll the sole of the what is that to roll the sole of the what is that to roll the sole of the foot? foot? foot? >> The sole of the foot. The reason I um >> The sole of the foot. The reason I um >> The sole of the foot. The reason I um wanted that size was because we will wanted that size was because we will wanted that size was because we will also work on range of motion at the big also work on range of motion at the big also work on range of motion at the big toe. toe. toe. >> M >> M >> M >> So that's another one of those drills >> So that's another one of those drills >> So that's another one of those drills that we'll do on how to improve range of that we'll do on how to improve range of that we'll do on how to improve range of motion at the toe. motion at the toe. motion at the toe. >> Oh, maybe we'll shoot a little video on >> Oh, maybe we'll shoot a little video on >> Oh, maybe we'll shoot a little video on that now and see. But okay, so for that now and see. But okay, so for that now and see. But okay, so for anyone who wants to get one of these anyone who wants to get one of these anyone who wants to get one of these very exciting kits, which I'm actually very exciting kits, which I'm actually very exciting kits, which I'm actually very excited to see. Oh my god, how am I very excited to see. Oh my god, how am I very excited to see. Oh my god, how am I going to incorporate these into my life? going to incorporate these into my life? going to incorporate these into my life? These are just on the website. Yes, on These are just on the website. Yes, on These are just on the website. Yes, on the website Gate happens. the website Gate happens. the website Gate happens. >> Gate happens. Okay. So, and on social >> Gate happens. Okay. So, and on social >> Gate happens. Okay. So, and on social media, people want to sort of stay in media, people want to sort of stay in media, people want to sort of stay in touch with you and keep up to date with touch with you and keep up to date with touch with you and keep up to date with your content. Where is everything? your content. Where is everything? your content. Where is everything? >> Everything's Gate happens. >> Everything's Gate happens. >> Everything's Gate happens. >> G A I T. >> G A I T. >> G A I T. >> G A I not G A T. >> G A I not G A T. >> G A I not G A T. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, listen, Connie, honestly, I >> Okay. Well, listen, Connie, honestly, I >> Okay. Well, listen, Connie, honestly, I love what you're doing. I love what love what you're doing. I love what love what you're doing. I love what you're putting out in the world. I you're putting out in the world. I you're putting out in the world. I really appreciate you making the journey really appreciate you making the journey really appreciate you making the journey out to the studio, and I hope to have out to the studio, and I hope to have out to the studio, and I hope to have you back here very, very soon. you back here very, very soon. you back here very, very soon. >> Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to be >> Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to be >> Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to be able to share this message. It really is able to share this message. It really is able to share this message. It really is so important. So, I can't thank you so important. So, I can't thank you so important. So, I can't thank you enough. enough. enough. >> If you enjoyed that conversation, then I >> If you enjoyed that conversation, then I >> If you enjoyed that conversation, then I think you are really going to enjoy this think you are really going to enjoy this think you are really going to enjoy this one. When we have an emotion, it changes one. When we have an emotion, it changes one. When we have an emotion, it changes our posture. When we have an emotion, it our posture. When we have an emotion, it our posture. When we have an emotion, it stores somewhere in the body. And I've stores somewhere in the body. And I've stores somewhere in the body. And I've just seen countless times when I touch just seen countless times when I touch just seen countless times when I touch people in certain parts of their body, people in certain parts of their body, people in certain parts of their body, certain emotions release. Certain certain emotions release. Certain certain emotions release. Certain patterns are stored