Actor Norman Reedus’ Wild Early Life, ‘Walking Dead’ Stories, Crazy Fans, and Motorcycle Therapy

Key Takeaway

When advice conflicts, return to the work itself. Norman Reedus accepted The Walking Dead despite every agent advising against it because the pilot script moved him on a human level—not because of its market category. Today, before rejecting an opportunity because it seems unconventional or unpopular, spend 20 uninterrupted minutes with the actual work: read the proposal, try the product, or review the draft. Make your decision from firsthand evidence, not consensus.

Episode Overview

Norman Reedus recounts an unconventional path from a nomadic childhood, competitive tennis, art, and squatting in London to an accidental acting career and his defining role as Daryl Dixon in The Walking Dead. He discusses creative instinct, learning through experience, the psychological costs of fame, motorcycles and photography as outlets, and his commitment to making characters feel human and authentic.

Full Transcript

Transcript of Actor Norman Reedus’ Wild Early Life, ‘Walking Dead’ Stories, Crazy Fans, and Motorcycle Therapy from How I Built This. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

No one thought it would last longer than one season. Well, no. You know, my agents said, "You don't want to do this." But wait, wait, why did you agree then? If everyone, if everyone said, "Don't do this." Because I read the script. I read the pilot episode and didn't even see any zombies in it. I read about a guy who woke up, the world changed, and he's like, "Where is my family?" I thought, "This is great." Hi, this is Guy Rose, and this is Great Creators, a place where I connect with the most famous actors, musicians, and performers of our time.

Today on the show, actor Norman Reedus, who plays the beloved Daryl Dixon on The Walking Dead, the head of marketing who is in charge of all the merch and stuff, tells me, "You know, you're outselling the entire cast combined, 100 to 1. " And I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] , maybe they won't kill me next week." Off-screen, Norman has an exciting life. He shares great stories in this conversation about his childhood, training on the tennis courts with Andre Agassi, and the punk rock life abroad .

He lived in a squat with a bunch of people, we, you know, did ecstasy, went to the park on the weekends, and then ate potatoes for dinner. That's all we did. He also talks about how he accidentally landed big acting roles without any professional training. So without further ado, enjoy my conversation with actor Norman Reedus. Let's go back to your childhood. Why, why did you move so often? I know your parents divorced when you were very young. Tell me why you kept moving . I mean San Francisco, Palo Alto , Japan, and all of Texas.

What, what was happening? My father was hardly ever around. He was a businessman. He looks a lot like that character from "Mad Men." And you know, we traveled with them while they were doing work. My mother raised me alone. It was job after job that had us moving to a bunch of different apartments, neighborhoods, and schools, and then I lived in an apartment building. There I met a friend and became friends with his mother. And his, and my mother , you know, would buy me shoes and stuff , and make sure I had dinner, and she kind of adopted me, without officially adopting me , but she played tennis, and to spend time with me and encourage me, she started teaching me to play, and I got really good at tennis.

I played in a tennis tournament. And I won that tennis tournament. But I was 12 years old, I was supposed to compete in either the under- 14 or under-12 category. I don't remember exactly. But I had to play in the under- 18 category because the others were full. And in the end, I won this tournament. And I think it was because I was, you know, wearing knee-high soccer socks and a little green visor that you could see through , and I was just hitting the ball as hard as I could .

And I think that's why I ended up in the newspaper photo. Anyway , the tennis coach saw me at the tournament, approached my mom, and then me, and said, " Hi, I'm the tennis coach." And I replied: "You need to talk to my mom." He talked to her for a few minutes and she started packing my bag. Then I went with him and started traveling. He said, "I want to take this guy and train him to be a professional." Right. Yes. And that became your life as a teenager, right?

Constant travel and training as a tennis player. Yes, in many ways it was like that, I had clothing sponsorship and, you know, flew to matches on small private planes. I left school early . I trained a little at the Bollettieri Academy with Andre Agassi. But the end of my dreams came when I played in Kalamazoo, Michigan, in a tournament where I needed to beat an opponent for ranking. I twisted my leg, but I still had to beat this guy in the next round. That was the whole point.

I twisted my ankle really hard. He took a bucket from the hotel and filled it with ice. You know, I used to inject painkillers into my leg and then keep it in an ice-cold... garbage can. And I just thought to myself: I don't want to do this. It was no longer enjoyable. So, I ended up...my mom moved to Japan, and I called her and said, "Hey, can I come live there?" Of course. And, uh, then I eventually went there when I was 18, I think. Yes.

Wow. And then from there I kept going to Tokyo, uh, you know, to , well, see Tokyo. And I became friends with this young guy who was studying to run a French, French restaurant in Tokyo. And his, his father owned a French restaurant in France, and he was going to open a restaurant there, run it and everything like an apprentice. And he had an apartment in Roppongi, and I... you know, I went to Tokyo. In Tokyo. So I went there, thinking I was just having fun, and, uh, I kind of figured out how to live there, you know, hanging out with people who gave you free food or free access to different places.

I started hanging out with this group, eventually living there, and then through the people I met there, I ended up in Tooting Bec, and we were all , like, squatting there. Tooting Bec in the UK. Right. It's at the end of the Northern Line, just outside London. Yes. And, uh, you know, we took turns selling postcards in Piccadilly and, you know, we just ate potatoes all the time and... it was in the late, I think probably the late 80s, yeah, we're talking about that period? It seems like you were just following whatever was the next adventure.

There was no plan. Yes. You know, uh, I...I never even thought about it, about acting at all. Uh , you know, I was kind of an artistic teenager in high school. You know, I listened to Bauhaus, I took photography classes, and, you know, I visited cemeteries and developed my own photos. I was, you know, a kind of punk rock teenager, and I liked art. I always thought that maybe I would like to do something in the arts, but that would mean living in some creepy house with a bunch of cats and not opening the door, you know.

But I never thought about anything like what I'm doing now. So you find yourself, well , I think, a teenager, maybe in your early twenties, living in London, and again, well , if I met you in London at that time, like, "Oh, hi, you're Norman. Nice to meet you. What are you doing here?" What would you answer? I was...what was I doing there? I think I...well, you know, I lived in a squat with a bunch of people, and we, you know, did ecstasy, and we went to the park next door, Clapham Common, on weekends, and then had potatoes for dinner.

Potatoes in uniforms. That's all we did. And , you know, I...I...I don't know what I was doing. I guess I was just trying to find myself. I guess I spent most of my youth just trying to figure out who I was , you know. I just participated in the Criterion Collection project, where you go into their closet and choose the films that influenced you. I was scared because I thought, "I'm going to have to talk all day about Truffaut and the guitar and..." You know, the truth is, I work so much that I hardly watch movies, and...

but then I started picking these movies, talking about them, and I realized that all of them, you know, like "Midnight Cowboy," I remember... you know, this movie came out in '69. I was born in '69. And I remember seeing him at an early age. And I wanted that leather jacket with the tassels. I wore that jacket everywhere . Even if it was 40 degrees...you know, you form your personality based on so many things you see, but you never know where they'll take you. You get inspired by certain things.

And you know, I have a new one now...I don't know if we're talking about this, I think you mentioned the photo book, but yeah, I just saw the new one. It's just, you know, I just saw a new book. She is incredibly cool. And for me, this is my fourth book. And... I was amazed by that book : "Oh my god, this is..." For some reason, I saw that book and thought: "Oh my god, you did it." The other books were great too. But I'm like, "Wow." It's like this is your photo book that we're going to talk about.

Insanely cool. But you know, that's not even the point . It's just a matter of how it's put together. It's about how it's presented. It suddenly made everything so real. And then, you know, talking about Midnight Cowboy and Harold and Maude, those movies, and Harold and Maude, I mean, what a great movie. But, you know, that woman in "Harold and Maude" really struck me when I was watching it and what her message was in that movie, and then I watch " Rosemary's Baby" and it's like: that's her.

It's the same woman. And, you know, I have so many relationships, uh, with men who are older than me. I admire older women and men. Well, I mean the age of my parents, and I think men , well, you know, when I worked with Scott Wilson, I just got attached to Scott Wilson. When I worked with Kristofferson, I became attached to Kristofferson, and, you know, there were times when I was a kid, people would ask, what does your dad do? I said: he's a firefighter. He is an astronaut.

He is a policeman. I guess I was just making up all sorts of nonsense. But, you know, so many of the lines from these movies I've said in real life; So many plot points of my life, uh, you know, it feels like you're just erasing your entire childhood from your memory . And then these little clouds appear, and you think, "Oh, this is the cloud I was standing under when I formed that opinion about myself in my life." As for art, I never thought I would make a living from art.

Although I have always been creative. I have always taken photographs. You know, I made sculptures out of stone, metal, and wood. And you know, I used to organize art exhibitions to pay for the rent. You know, I once lived in a guy's garage while I was preparing an art exhibition, because the exhibition was the most important thing. I needed all the money I had, that's all. But you never know where you'll end up and what you'll do. But I don't know. I always left the door open to possibilities.

Not intentionally, but, you know, it just kind of happened that way. It seems like there's so much to sort through. I mean, talking about relationships, about finding relationships with older men, and, you know, not trying to psychoanalyze, but obviously your father wasn't around when you were growing up. And it's logical that you sought mentorship. You were looking for a connection. Yes. But, you know, I always chose the cool ones. Do you understand what I mean? It was like, well, you know, can you imagine... Yeah. You know, yeah, Scott Wilson was the same way .

I just fell in love with him the minute I saw him. But, you know, older women too—I like to be around people who can teach me something, or I like to listen to their stories, you know, all that kind of thing. So ... you eventually moved to Los Angeles in the '90s , and a lot of things started happening there. I mean, you worked in a motorcycle repair shop for a while and somehow got into acting. By the way, I saw you were... you starred in music videos, such iconic videos as Radiohead's Fake Plastic Trees or Björk's Violently Happy.

You were in those clips. I saw them, and it's so strange to see you in those videos. You know, because you have a very expressive face. How, how did this happen? You didn't go to Los Angeles to become an actor, did you ? No. I moved to downtown Los Angeles before it was what it is now, you know? Only artists lived there. Yes. And I made friends with people who were art directors because we were doing art shows there, so I became friends with those artists.

And there was a guy named Tarsem Singh—he's a great director—and he and his then-girlfriend Fatima were making a music video called Losing My Religion, right? But that group was associated with David Fincher. All those young directors at that time were part of...I can't remember the name of their company, but Tarsem was there, David Fincher was there, many others, and they all went on to become great directors. But you know, they started with commercials and music videos on their way to big cinema. And I did one, and then they decided I was pretty good , or something, and I didn't look like a typical casting actor, I guess, so they passed me around to...

you did, you did one of the videos. I, uh, starred in a Keith Richards video, it was fun because he's cool. He took me to his trailer and said, "Norman, come with me," and he got a haircut. And he asks: "Do you know how I got this hairstyle?" And I said, "No." He says, "When I was little, my mom would give me money to get a haircut , and I would keep it for myself and cut my hair myself, and I've been doing that ever since." He was great, and, long story short, I did it.

I starred in an R.E.M. music video. " Strange Currencies". He starred in Radiohead. I made a whole bunch of them . But that's because the directors said, " Oh, Norman, take Norman." "Take Norman." And you know, you work all day for like 200 dollars, and yeah. You could buy something with that . Do you understand what I mean? So, as I understand it, you somehow accidentally got into the modeling business. Someone saw you and said, "Hey, you should try it," or "Hey, maybe you should think about acting." But it seems that wasn't your ambition.

It was actually quite the opposite. Oh, I understand. Okay. So, this whole modeling thing started with Prada, right? I was in a movie called Six Ways to Sunday, with Isaac Haze and Debbie Harry. It was, I think, my second film. The movie starts with Debbie Harry, who plays my mother, giving me a bath, even though I'm too old for my mother to bathe me. And this is a story about a guy with a split personality. This was my second film. There was also the film "The Floating One," which I had made right before that, and it helped me find agents and managers, because the film was sent out to all the agencies in Los Angeles before the premiere, and I didn't have anyone at the time, so everyone started offering me collaborations, and I chose someone, and all that.

But photographer Annie Leibovitz, who knew the director, came to the set of "Six Ways to Sunday" to do a photo shoot. Yes? And then she had dinner with Miuccia Prada, and they used different actors in their advertising campaigns. Yes? So, we did it, the Japanese actor did it. There were a few actors who did well. Willem Dafoe did it . Um, but she had dinner with Mutual and says, "Oh, I'm trying to find the next actor for the next series of pictures." "And she says, 'Oh, I was filming this guy on set today.'" And then they called me and said, "Oh, it's between you and Nicolas Cage for the Prada ad campaign." "And I'm like, 'What is Prada?'" "'And they said, 'Oh, if you agree, they'll take you to Paris, give you a bunch of free clothes, and that's all for you.'" "And then I was living in downtown L.A.

and we were all sharing one suit, me and the guys, and I'd never been to Paris before. So they ended up choosing me, and by the way , the guy who shot it ended up being the director. That was my introduction. And then later on, when I started dating Helena, there was... Helena Christensen, who was your partner for a few years. Yeah. Um, I think because of that connection, it opened up the door to new things and... we did things together, and sometimes I did things by myself.

But I think the relationship with her kind of ... kind of opened up fashion to me a little bit more. I'm curious how you learned to be an actor, because it's a skill. I mean, talent is important, of course, but there are things that you have to learn. And when you started acting, um, how did you figure out how to be an actor? How to embody a character? Because it's, it's hard. I'm still trying to figure it out. Yeah. It's, you know, there's never a moment where you go, "Oh, I got it, " you know, that's why...

that's why the first movie was called "Floating," yeah, and um... it was, oh my God, I was 17 or 18, that's when my father was dying, that's when he left, he never lived with me, but that was when I was getting calls all the time that he was going to die. Come on. You know, already in his late 30s at that point, I think. Maybe in his late 30s, yeah. Anyway, there were like five, five, six years that he was hanging on. There's a scene in the movie where...

I mean, the movie is about a guy who lives at home, and he's at the age where, you know, you know, you guys usually graduate from high school, go to college, start their own lives, do their own thing, and all his friends are doing that, but his father is in a wheelchair because of a drunk driver accident. So he has to stay home, take care of father. And there's this kind of hostility at home , you know, for all these reasons. But the director... we were shooting in Maine, and I was freezing cold, and the director came up.

It was a scene where I was supposed to go out on the patio, and he gets out of his wheelchair, right? He hugs me, and that's really important to the movie. And the director says, "So, how do you want to prepare for this?" And I'm like, " Well, what are my options?" You see? And he talked to me for a little bit. I said, " You know what?" "Just give me the phone and pick me up in 10 minutes." He said, " Okay, we'll do that." And he gave me the phone.

I called my dad. My dad can't really talk, you know? So he just listened to me on the phone, right? And then we go to shoot the scene, and I cried so much that we had to do a retake because my nose was dripping and everything. And so, we reshoot, we take a lunch break, and I went to my little trailer, just to lie down, I did n't go to lunch, and they were all eating in a tent with heaters, and one of the technicians came up to me and said, "I know this is your first movie." He said, "But I want to tell you, no one talked at lunch." Everyone was just sitting there.

It was quiet, and I'm like, " Oh, so we're like this " We're working." Yeah. And that taught me something. I do n't know what it taught me, but it taught me something. And then when we started The Walking Dead, you know, the main cast was already doing press interviews and all that. I kind of... I didn't show up until, I think, the third season, the second or the third. And, uh, I was really nervous and I didn't know how I was going to play this character.

And, you know, I was just panicking, and we were doing the scene where they handcuff my brother to the roof, and I turned around and there were like a dozen actors looking at me like, " What are you going to do, new guy?" So I immediately felt like I had a crown growing on me , like, you all go away. You don't like me. And I don't like you, damn it . And it was all just coming out of one side of my face, I never looked anyone in the eye.

And I'm like, this is how I'm going to play it. I'm going to play it like I hate everyone. You hate me, you think I'm [ __ ], and I hate you, and that's how it all started. And as the seasons went on, I gradually loosened up and started to connect with people. But it was a long journey to feeling accepted. You know, not everything in life is a battle, which coincides with my audition process and how I came to terms with the fact that I do this for a living now.

It's very similar, because I didn't know exactly what I was doing, I wasn't properly trained, I met a lot of celebrities, and, you know, all of that, damn it, was It's just scary. But, you know, I look a certain way. I look like a guy who would steal your bag right now. So I often ended up playing those kinds of guys. It got to the point where I was offered other movies and I was like, "I don't know how to be a good guy." No, it works.

This bad guy thing works. Can we keep doing this forever? You know, and with The Walking Dead, it became such a big deal when we were all in the woods doing the movie or the show. We took it very seriously, even though it could have easily turned into a joke, because it's a zombie show and all that stuff. So everyone played it real. We all supported each other. Uh. And it became a big thing, you know. Yeah. You mentioned the idea that you kind of looked like a guy who could steal a bag, which I don't think is true, but, you know, I think it's a combination of your The way you look, maybe the way you carry yourself naturally, it was a natural fit for the antiheroes, the heroic antiheroes that you got to play.

I mean Murphy in Slumdog Millionaire and of course Daryl Dixon, they're incredible characters . You're really lucky to have gotten to play those characters. They're incredibly multifaceted and interesting, especially Daryl Dixon. And we could talk about Slumdog Millionaire forever , but I really want to ask you about The Walking Dead because it obviously took up a huge part of your life. That wasn't the character you originally auditioned for. You auditioned for Merle, right? You know, they do this thing on this show where when they audition people, they never give them the actual lines.

So, you know, they just say you're going to be a plumber who says lines like in a scene, well, you know, something like that. When I went to L.A. for pilot season, and they gave me a bunch of scripts, all I saw were buddy cop movies , roommate movies, ER movies—it was either about cops or it was about a hospital. They were all the same. And then that one script, and I was like, "Oh, this one's good." And, you know, everyone's like, " No, no, no, not this one ." "This won't work." And I'm like, " Well, it's AMC, it's Gale Anne Heard, it's..." But people said about " The Walking Dead," "This won't work." Absolutely.

Not absolutely. Not a single actor on our show got their agent's approval for this role. It's interesting. I understand why, right? Because, you know, but at the same time, I would think, "Zombies and post-apocalypse." Maybe in 2010, when it started, I remember when it came out, it was amazing. But when you're working on this, no one thought it would last more than one season. Well, no. You know, my agents were like, "You don't want to do this." "This is the one option of all of them that you shouldn't do." "But...Wow." You know, wait, wait, why did you do it when everyone said not to do it?

Because I read it. I read the pilot script and I did n't even see a zombie in it. I read about a guy who wakes up, the world has changed, and he's like, "Where is my family?" I thought, "This is great ." But then, you know, AMC had " Mad Men," " Beach Days." I thought, "This channel makes great shows, and it's Frank Darabont, and the people that were involved." I said, "This will work." But it was mostly because of the pilot script. I'm like, I didn't see any monsters in it.

I just saw this guy trying to find his family, almost like in that book, " The Road." Honestly, Andy and I read that book, you know? And we always thought that the show would end up like this —that we'd all be exhausted, with two teeth in our mouths, you know, and we thought that was where it was going. But what happens when you're on a big show —nobody wants you to look like that, you know? Well, you know what I mean? You're like a toy, you know, all these things happen to you.

So you have to look good, you know, like even when you're in the blood. The pants were getting tighter, and I remember it was a wardrobe change at the beginning of the season, and they came up to me with these skinny jeans. I guess skinnies were in that year, and I'm like, " How the hell am I supposed to run in these pants?" And I went to Melissa and said, what's wrong with these pants? She started laughing, and I said, can I never change my clothes?

And you can see that I've been wearing the same clothes for five seasons . I have a pair of pants that I've worn for eight seasons. They just turned into Frankenstein pants. I remember Scott Wilson and I made a deal. He says, don't cut your hair. He says, I wo n't cut your hair. Don't cut your hair. And I say, why? And he says, why would you cut your hair? He's trying to look good for you, you know, and he's like, "It's the end of the world." He says that nobody should cut their hair, you know, except for shaving their heads.

Nobody should cut their hair . And we, uh, we swore an oath to that. We're like, "Don't cut your hair ." Um, I mean, in 15 years it would be five point, so I had to get a little haircut. But, you know, I was like, "Why me, why do I have to change every season when it starts?" Why do I have to have a new look? Like, you know, all the departments change and we don't. The showrunners change and we do n't. So, it's... You know, I try to play it as realistic as possible.

And then the trip to Europe—I didn't want to take an American show and bring it to Paris and "Americanize" it. I wanted it to feel like a European show. I wanted the Europeans to embrace it, like we did in Georgia. We wanted it to be their show, you know. I've said it a million times. But, you know, there are things that have to be done and fought for and things where you have to stand your ground and hope that they'll hear you. You know, this show that you said many people thought was a failure has become the highest-rated drama in the history of cable .

I mean, 11 seasons, a real phenomenon. Huge, even more than anyone could have imagined. . Such a successful show and franchise. I read that when you first came on, in the first season, because you joined around episode three... Yeah. You felt a little awkward, like an outsider , because the actors already knew each other. They'd been working together for a few weeks, and you came on as a new person and maybe felt a little awkward, awkward or like an outsider—what do you remember? That's it, I, you know, they...

they'd already been on press tours, they'd been around the world, they'd been to Australia, they'd all been friends before I came on. And I didn't know, you know, you never know how long you'd last on that show, because they were killing someone almost every day, you know. Um, you know what I mean? And you didn't know that you were going to be No, no, you don't know those things. So I'm like, yeah . And they probably didn't know either. They, I don't know, you know, it was funny, I really didn't know.

And then you read the script and you get to the end and you're like, "Oh, I survived." You know? Um, it was literally like that . And they kept it all a tight lid. Um, you know, one time they told me, I think it was season four, the head of marketing, who's in charge of all the merch, says, "You know, you're selling a hundred times better than the rest of the cast combined." Wow. And I'm like, "What?" Like, action figures, your picture on the 100 to 1 T-shirts.

And I thought, "Oh, [ __ ], maybe they won't kill me next week." You know, but you never know for sure, because they killed the main characters, you know. Um, but we did n't know. But then, I remember I was at Coney Island, and these girls come up and say, "We work at the aquarium next door." Can I show you something ? And we go there, and there's this huge shark in the aquarium, all scratched up, missing teeth, and the sign says " Daryl Dixon." I'm like, "What?" You named a shark after my character?

They're like, "Yeah." And I'm like, "Oh my God." Now they can kill me. That's better than an Emmy. That's the best thing I've ever heard. Um, and then my crossbow and my winged vest ended up in the Smithsonian Institution. It's like, crazy, crazy. It's right next to the rope in Rocky Balboa's The Italian Stallion, it's just crazy. Um , yeah, there's been a lot of stuff like that over the years, and you know, it's really wild. So yeah, when I was in Tutting- Beak, selling postcards and eating fries, no, I've never , I've never seen anything like that.

When you become, I mean, because there's a difference between becoming famous on Grey's Anatomy or on a show like The Walking Dead, which is also part of a whole fandom world, like ComicCon, merch and comics. It's It's a completely different kind of fan. When you were on Slumdog Millionaire, there was a little bit of that , you know, but it's different. If you were on Grey's Anatomy or a sitcom, yeah. people wouldn't pick on you, but that's a different thing. When you were out in public, the people who loved that show saw you as Daryl Dixon.

Yeah. A lot of people call me Daryl on the street. It was just amazing to feel that? Yeah. Yeah. Um, it was weird because it... You know, I've been here a lot, because I lived in New York, and I have a son there, so I kept coming back here for the weekends. way. I was driving off the set, and there was still blood on my neck. At the airport, going through security, they were like, "Hey, Norman." It became funny in a weird way, but you know, I...

the flight attendants were giving me things, and I was on the plane in I was wiping blood off my face in the toilet. You know, it became a part of life, a routine, and... sometimes it was too much, levels of anxiety that I did n't even know I had were showing up, and still are. Where did it all come from ? You were so good at this role, so composed that it's impossible for the viewer to notice it, I guess that's why you needed that anxiety.

Where did it come from? Yeah. Where did it come from? I think it's just... I think that's why I love motorcycles so much. I put on a helmet and I can disappear. Um. It's just because too many people were in my life. You know what I mean? And yeah, social media, Twitter started, all these things. People are running up to you, jumping up to take selfies. They don't even , they don't even want to shake my hand, they're just like, "Can I, can I take a selfie to get likes?" " When I get home, it's a whole different thing, Do you understand?

But I meet cool people too. And I don't mind that, but like, you know, you're at JFK airport, the restroom, you're taking a piss, and some guy grabs your shoulder for a selfie, and you're like, " Dude, I'm busy, you know," and they're like, "Okay , I'll wait for you outside." "You know, you just don't want to come out of that restroom." Like, uh, wow. You're on a plane, you're coming out of the restroom, the whole aisle, phones in the air, and you're like, "Uh , you know, uh, and you can't be a piece of [ __ ] because people will say, "Oh, I saw Norman Reedus, and he's such an [ __ ]." "Uh, you have to be, you have to be pretty nice." You know, you know.

Also, you know, those conventions that used to happen when we were starting out, where you come in and there's 10,000 people, uh, and it's, you know, it's crazy, because you see a line in front of you for five hours, right? And then you're sitting there and you see, you know, lady, and she's right. And next to her is her husband, his arms crossed, and he's just staring at you like he wants to kill you. He's been in line for five hours, and you're, you know, trying to say hello to this person, keep an eye on the next person, and you go straight to that guy.

Nice to meet you, sir. And you know, and then to defuse the situation a little bit, no doubt. And then and then, uh, because I get it . If I was waiting in line for five hours with my girlfriend, I would be , I would be pissed. And then some people come up and say, "Here's my hotel room key," you know, and you're like, "Let's put this away quickly, because there's a thousand iPhones pointed at us right now ." "You're like, 'Yeah, next.' " You know, you end up with 300 keys in your pockets, and, you know, you think, "But you can't have any fun because everything is under surveillance." "And, you know, I used to go out in New York with friends; we'd go to bars, wherever, and it was fun.

And then it got to the point where my friends were like, ' You're not invited.'" Do you understand what I mean? It's just not fun. Excuse me, but either we can go to that diner, because my friend works there and he'll lock the door, you know, but... besides, if you're in Georgia that long. Yes. You are losing touch. You lived in Georgia. You bought a house. It's like you made a life there because you had to. It was filmed there. Yes. But, you know, all my friends in New York are moving away.

And so eventually your friend list becomes very short, very, you know, and you know, I can count my friends on one hand and I'll still have three fingers left. So it's like, you know, it's happening at the same time that you're becoming more popular . It takes the brain out a bit . you know, it's you know, and then, you know, you know, you go to these events and it's like, "Oh my god, they love us, we're doing well, keep it up ." "And then you get pressured by, like, the Sunday ratings, you know?

And then it's changed because nobody watches TV like they used to; it's all streaming. So, you know, you can't even do the numbers, because we used to win, we used to win Sunday football, you know? And you know, wow. And then, you know , I know Game of Thrones was on the same night as us, and they changed their day because they were competing with us, like, we were the ones to beat. and you get more popular, but your social life narrows. Your friends start to disappear.

It's really crazy. And then, you know, you pretend you don't understand what the anxiety is about. Like, you know what I mean? Like, pick a reason . You know, there's a lot of reasons. I wonder, Norman, did you have anyone at that time that you could talk to about it ? I mean , on the one hand, someone An outsider will look at you and say, " Hey, you have a great job, you're famous, you make a lot of money," but it doesn't make your life any easier.

In fact, it can make life harder, especially on a show like this. I think you mentioned Game of Thrones, and I think some of those actors must have been through similar things, because it attracts certain fans who are kind of obsessed, but in a good way, right? Not just in a bad way. So you're on this show, 11 seasons, there's got to be 11 seasons of the show. It's a lot of work, long days. And inside, I think you're kind of an introvert, right? I don't think you're the kind of person who just loves to go out and meet new people all the time.

I can't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Um. So how do you... how do you deal with that? Have you been able to, um, you kind of get into a rhythm. You put on that mask, you know. Um. I still have people that I talk to, but, you know, the thing is, everyone asks you for money. They ask to borrow money. That's the first thing that happens, right? And then you lend money to some of them and you never hear from them again , right? And then you have relatives that you never knew you had.

They ask for money, right? And suddenly you're supporting all your friends, and you're living your life, which can be expensive, but I didn't have anyone to talk to about it, because you're like, "Damn, I have to get on a plane ." I have to go to [ __ ] New Zealand, and then I have to meet Josh Brolin, and then Josh and I have to go south. And people say, "Oh, you left." I have so much , so I understand, and honestly, I used to be like that myself, you know.

Yeah. I used to hate rich people. I hated popular people when I was in high school. I hated the rich kids. I hated the popular kids. I hated the pretty kids. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden you become all of that. Well, I became popular because of them, you know, but, well, I was like that myself . I'm like, "Eat the rich kids, I hate them." I, I was like that , so I understand, you know. Um, and everybody has their own problems.

Like, you know, I used to go to work and, well, I'd go up to the cafeteria and say, "Hey, man, good morning." And they're like, "Yeah, what's the difference?" And I'm like, " What did I do to this guy?" And you know, all day long I've been trying to remember my lines and thinking about scenes, but all I can think about is that guy at the buffet who said some shitty "good morning" to me, and I'm like, "What the hell did I do to this guy?" I don't know if he just ran over his dog on his way out of the yard." I don't know if he just got divorced .

Like, right? All people are the same, you know? Um, you know, you don't know . So you can't really whine about your problems, you know, because everybody has problems. And it's, you know , I whine about going to work. I whine about getting up at 5 in the morning. I still whine about all sorts of [ __ ]. And I get paid a lot of money and, um, they named a shark after me. So I I I get it, you know? So, with Who am I to talk to about these things?

You end up having these conversations with people who are in similar situations to you. Yeah. But it's also a whole game because, you know, like, you know, it's like social media, like should I be friends with you because you're an actor too. Like, I don't even really know you. I met you once, but are we in the same club? Are we friends? Like, you don't know you, you know. So I've met celebrities that I didn't like at all , you know. So, you know, it's all relative.

I think, you know, I think, probably, people who are into your work and are into what you do, um, and I mean are into your craft, you know, how you do it, are probably genuinely interested in getting to know you, right? Because, um, I mean fellow actors, because they know what it's like to do this job. There's this kind of popular perception, you know, where it's not like that, that everyone The actor meets you and says, "Come here." Do you understand what I mean? There are, there are, there are competing actors.

I remember my boss, uh, I mean, I won't say his name, but he was my competitor in all the auditions. Like, it was always me against him, always. And he's a damn incredible actor. I really like him, damn it . Um, he just starred in a movie , and he was just incredible in it. He is super talented. But for some reason, I always competed with this guy, you know? And I remember riding my motorcycle to the audition, and my hands were covered in grease because the bike was leaking.

And then he looks at me, goes out into the dirt, and smears his hands with dirt. It was kind of a " competition", you know. Um, so there's competition, and sometimes you meet actors by chance, like Keanu or Josh Brolin or any of them, and you become friends, they're cool, but I don't know what it's like to be Keanu Reeves. This guy is so popular. He's so good at it, you know, it's interesting. I just wrote an article because I'm here in San Francisco. Hey, I don't smoke much.

I just rolled that cigarette really badly. Oh yes. No, no problem. The same. Cigarette. Um, yeah, Keanu Reeves, you know, there's an article, because he showed up at a coffee shop in Sonoma County, and they wrote an article about it, but I imagine there's also a connection between you two through motorcycles. He does them, and yes, he is a real rider. He's really, he's actually really cool. The first serious thing he asked me about, um, was something else, and it was about aggressive press, right ?

And I said, "Well, I did it like this," and I don't know what he did , but I'm not as popular as Keanu Reeves, you know? But he's a real guy, you know? He loves bikes, he loves putting on a helmet and disappearing, like me, you know, kind of. This is time for yourself. You find common ground with some of them, with some you don't. There is a certain spirit of rivalry here. You come to an awards ceremony, and, man, sometimes there's so much tension you could cut yourself with a knife, you know?

But maybe I'm just insecure and feel like I'm superfluous there. So that's it too . I don't know. Everything is different, you know? Yes. You know, I wonder if you want to talk about this , because it's quite personal, but around the time you were filming The Walking Dead, you started dating your co-star Diane Kruger. Did this help you? I mean, was it a way to discuss some of these things, because she's also an actress , and you have someone you can trust and talk to.

Yes, there is such a thing. It's nice to be able to talk to someone who understands what I'm talking about. I had girls who didn't work in this industry, and they were scared. There were parts of the fan community that threatened them, were looking for them to beat up, and God, they were afraid to leave their homes. It was Wow. My son got it. You know, my son was being harassed. He is still persecuted, but his childhood was especially difficult. I remember it was when Facebook came out .

He and his friends were doing homework there. He comes to me and says, "I keep getting kicked off Facebook." I ask: “Why? "And he said, 'People take my photos, create fake profiles impersonating me, and complain about me to block the real me.'" This happened so many times that he gave up. But it is difficult to explain to a child why this happens. People thought, “Do you want to hurt Norman? " Get his son." Suddenly I had to hire security for my child, and he is seven years old.

So there are good sides and, certainly, bad sides. But you know, my daughter recently said something funny. We were in Paris, I'm walking down the street, and some guy runs up: “Oh my God, you're the best actor! Oh my God, I love it. You are the best actor." "And my daughter says, 'He's not the best actor.'" "I play better than him." "She says, ' He's just pretending to be a cowboy.'" I am a cowboy. I was on the floor laughing. This was probably the best moment.

But , you know, sometimes things go wrong. This character, Daryl Dixon, who played such a huge role, meaning he became a huge part of your life. Yes. You have also become a big part of his life. What do you think about this? I mean, this is a bit of a weird question, but...do you see him as ...is he just a character you play, or do you have some kind of special connection to him? I...I'm not sure how to phrase the question, but... considering he played such an important role in your life.

Does it mean more to you than just acting? Yes, this is an outsider character who is learning to get along with others and interact. This is very similar to me in real life during this job. There are certain elements of this character that coincide with my life, and if they're not in the script, I'll steer it in that direction, you know. It made me a better friend. It instilled in me a work ethic that I didn't have before. Thanks to this, I began to care more about my work.

This taught me a lot . I took things I learned from other people and applied them to myself and the character of Daryl. I was taking...Daryl was taking what he learned from other characters he met on the show and applying it to his decisions as he... matured in real time. There are many things that coincide. When you become the main character in a project, there are certain things you have to do, you know? They want you to have love interests, but I always tell the writers: I don't mind being a hero, I just don't want to know that I'm a hero, you know?

And I constantly remind myself that it's impossible to please all fans, because some want one thing, some want another, and some want something else. So you just have to tell your story, right? But I'm not in the script group, right? Now I'm the executive producer of the spin-off. Yes. But I don't want to tell them what to write about me . We get scripts, we can change little things, you know, details, but as far as storylines— the writers give them to us , and we implement them, those rules, we're so comfortable, uh, I think sometimes Daryl and Norman merge in people's eyes, you know, not just calling me Daryl but saying, you belong to this character, so let's attack Diane.

You belong to this character, so let's beat up your girlfriend in front of Diane, like, but Diane is different . Diane says: She says it's just noise. It's just noise. And I'm like: my God, what did I do to that person at the buffet table? You know, sometimes it affects me a little more. Uh, she just says, turn it off, you know. I don't have social media on my phone at all anymore , you know. Uh, but I'll say this: a lot of those people who complain get answers after just a couple of episodes, you know, and that's been the case 99.9% of the time for 12-13 years.

Like they whine about something, and two episodes later it's resolved, and you're just like: well you know, uh, but yeah, I don't know. It's all, it's all kind of one giant social experiment, you know. The spin-off was renewed for another season. Yes. Uh, and it's an incredible character and an amazing role, and you can play this character for a long time and do other things. I mean, we haven't even talked much about your photography yet, and you had your own show where you rode a motorcycle and hung out with friends.

So you can do other interesting things, but is there a world where you could continue to be Daryl Dixon for a long time and you would be comfortable doing that ? I'm quite comfortable with it, to be honest . Uh, I think it's really interesting to watch a character grow before your eyes over that amount of time. It's very unusual for you to have to do this, you know, and the more humane I can make it, the better. Even now, our show has very little to do with zombies.

Very little, you know. And, you know, Melissa and I talked about creating a spin- off a long time ago, many years ago. Melissa McBride. Yes. And, you know, there was this TV series that Mickey Rourke told me about , "Then Came Bronson." And he said: you know, all of us hooligans just adored this character on TV. He started explaining to me that it was about a guy on a motorcycle traveling across the country without any purpose. He's in no hurry, but he has a certain approach: he pulls up to a gas station, a couple is arguing, and he somehow gets involved in their drama.

But at the end of the series, when he leaves, their attitude changes, they seem to ask themselves: what are we fighting for? Is that true? It became a kind of outline for the show that Melissa and I wanted to make. I remember Angela Kane coming up to me sometime towards the end of season 7, it was the last shot of the season, we were sitting, and she said, "How do you see the series finale?" And I answer: "In a grand battle where everyone dies, and people fight to save their friends." One heroic moment after another, and everyone dies.

The damn town is being burned to the ground. And it all ends. And I'm like, "Carol, get on the motorcycle." And we run away, because there is nowhere to turn back . Everything disappeared. So let's see who's left in the world. Let's see who's there. You know, there must be more people there. It would be an episodic show where we travel and see who's left. Besides, you know, it's hard to get actors to sign up to a schedule or contract like ours, because it's not for a week.

Like, we need you for five years, maybe, you know. It's hard to get actors to agree to five years, you know. Ahem. Although we didn't know that we were signing up for five years when we agreed, but... But that was the basis of the show, and now we're doing something like a variation on that theme. And I think it's going to become even more like that . I don't know. I put a lot of work into this character. It's hard to just wave your hand at a drone.

Goodbye. That's all. This... I want to see where this goes. I want to see how this ends. I want to see who else he finds. I want to see how it will change him. I want to, you know, you know, there are , you know, I have ideas for this character that have nothing to do with Daryl. Well, I mean, if you see me in Daryl Dixon, I'm all scarred. My face looks like that shark at Coney Island. Yes. Which is a crazy coincidence. Now I look like that shark.

But, uh, and my back looks like a road map, you know. Uh-huh. But I, I, you know, I want to go into some place and not tell them who I am . I don't want to bring my drama to this damn place. You know , I want to see what it's like to live that kind of life . Uh, you know, there's a storyline going on in the show right now where I'm like, "Dude, we've been running and fighting our whole adult lives." Maybe we, maybe we did it wrong.

Maybe we should shorten life expectancy, but improve its quality. Maybe there's something else. Maybe we, you know, maybe, I mean, that's what I'm struggling with this season, you know, like, "Did we, did we do everything wrong?" Like, we're going to do this forever, you know? So, I want to see how it happens. I want to see where this leads, you know? Eh, I'm happy to continue playing this character. I'm still curious about this character. For me, it would be like, "Oh, you've done 50 art shows and you have a bunch of photo books." What, are you done with photography?

Yes. You know, which brings me to the question about this. You mentioned how riding a motorcycle frees you. This, this, this seems to lower your anxiety, your blood pressure. It's just the thing you connect with, and that's why you do it. And when you take photos, because you have a new photo book coming out now. Uh, and you've had a few of them, and you've been taking photos for a long time . What does this give you creatively? Uh, just personally, spiritually, or whatever. What is your relationship with photography, and how does it balance you?

It takes me out of my thoughts, you know. Uh, it's funny because I really like people like Joel Peter Witkin, who would spend two days setting up one shot, you know. Uh, but I don't take photos like that. When I start daydreaming , I usually take the best pictures, you know what I mean? And the photograph itself is something completely unplanned, it's a feeling. This is a feeling. You're like, "Oh, I see it this way. " “Hmm...I never try to get the perfect shot. It's more like, "Oh, wow." "Look at the snow falling in that corner of the shadow." "You know, these are things of this nature .

It's funny to organize a book because I can't do it myself—I don't think like that , you know? Or an art exhibition, right ? And it's simple: here are the new photos that I took, and there 's also Lori Dolphin, who has worked with a bunch of artists, and we do exhibitions everywhere. We, you know, but the exhibitions are a little different now, because we just had two in Paris, and another one in Japan, in Shibuya, about a month or two ago. Um... this is turning into a fan event, you know?

So... the police have to block the street, you know what I mean? Wow. Yes. What I miss is how it used to be: I would put on an exhibition , hang sculptures or something on the walls, I could just go to a corner and watch people look at it, I just watched people, right? Yes. I can't do this anymore. So, you know, now with social media and everything, when you do an exhibition, the gallery asks, “Can you tweet?” Can you post it on Instagram? Can you, can you promote?

Can you promote? "But they're not promoting me. They're promoting their gallery, you know? So I understand what they are doing and why, they want their money back or something. We'll get more popular, but you know, I miss the days when I could sit in the corner, drink a beer, and watch people review things. Yes. You've done a lot and you do a lot of different things, and it makes sense because it's...it's creative outlets, whether it's riding a motorcycle, or talking to people, whether it's photography, art, and, of course, acting—do you have any interest in directing?

You know, I get asked all the time if I want to direct a show, and I’m like, “Can you imagine me? They used to ask me and George all the time, like, "Hey, Dani." "Can you do that?" Of course? She replied: " Shut up, Norman." Do you understand what I mean? Like, we're all too close for me to do that . Although, maybe I'll take it. Lately I've been thinking about doing it in an episode where there's not as much of me. Well, you know. Ugh.

What I love about spin-offs is that when you're on a show like we were in Georgia, it's constantly: bang-bang-bang-bang -bang, commercials. Bah- bah-bah-bah-bah, advertising. What I like about what we do in Europe is that it breathes a little. You know, you can see the leaves moving on the trees. This, you know, gives you time to slowly come back. I remember one of our actresses in Georgia, a great theater actress. She was on the show, a newbie, looking out the window, someone says something behind her, and she slowly turns around to respond.

And then the episode came out: she's looking out the window, they're talking, then she speaks, and she's like, "Where's my slow turn that I did on purpose?" She, a great theater actress, and she just...she was in shock: "What the...why did we... what is this...who did this?" Do you understand? And this allows us to slowly return if we want; allows you to look at each other before saying your lines. Such moments that are important, they exist, you know? So the more I do it, the more it feels different than the original show.

But also, you know, at first they didn't want any foreign languages. They were not in English at all. And we say: "But we are in France, and here the French talk to the French," we should have fought for more of that . But I understand where this nervousness comes from, because it works. Like, don't touch the formula, you know. We try to change the formula exactly as much as necessary, you know. Yes. Norman, thank you very much. No, thank you. Hello, thanks for watching my conversation with actor Norman Reedus.

The second season of The Walking Dead: Daryl Dixon is now available on AMC Plus. Norman also has a new book of photographs out. It's called "Intransit," and we'll be linking to it on the release description page at thegreatcreators.com/readus. If you want to see more videos like this, please subscribe to this channel. We publish a new video every week. And of course, we are also a podcast. You can listen to us wherever you usually listen to podcasts, including on Spotify and Apple Music. Thank you very much for watching " The Great Creators".

I'm Guy Rose, and we'll be back here next week with another conversation.