A very slow training session with Zac Efron.

Key Takeaway

Make your next workout easier to sustain: choose a pace that lets you move well, breathe under control, and keep showing up. Zac Efron’s experience highlights that extreme movie-prep protocols can produce short-term results but also exhaustion, injury risk, and burnout. Today, trade one all-out finisher for 10-20 minutes of light cardio, mobility, or simple strength work. The goal is not to destroy yourself; it is to build a training practice you can repeat tomorrow.

Episode Overview

In a relaxed workout conversation, Zac Efron, Chris Williamson, and Ben Greenfield compare extreme physique preparation for film roles with more sustainable training. They discuss active recovery, the trade-offs of CrossFit-style conditioning, travel-friendly exercise, blood-flow-restriction training, sleep disruption on film sets, and the value of training with accountability.

Full Transcript

Transcript of A very slow training session with Zac Efron. from Modern Wisdom. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

If someone wanted to pay me 20 million for some advertising, I would do it. This workout is a war between my desire to do the "rocking chair" and Ben trying to make us more resilient. I've been following this guy for a week now. I can't believe I'm still alive. You might have real PTSD after you were preparing for the movie. I wanted to work out my back and biceps. We are just trying to execute our entire complex correctly. Everything hurts. I played pickleball and rowed. You're a damn idiot.

I work four days without a break. Why are we doing this today? I don't feel the way I should. What the hell is going on? I'm just testing your limits. You've been looking strong lately. What do you do, dude? Enough. I'm plowing. Enough. Enough. Enough, damn it, trying to stand out. Do you work with heavy weights? No. What do we want to train today? Uh, if you make me do that damn "knees over toes" exercise, I'm going to be really upset. It's unbearably hot in Austin, Texas.

And I'm with Zac Efron. We'll be lifting some iron. Light it up, kid. Uh-huh. It is very hot here. By the way, how long do you want to train today? I do n't know. I think we could talk. So we can just, damn it, relax. Yes. I think keep the intensity up. Yes. Yes. at a very easy pace. That's good, huh? This intensity is good. This intensity is high. This is high intensity. This is high. Let's do bodybuilding. Yes. What exactly? Let's do bodybuilding. I can do the pumping, Ben.

Who developed the program for "Iron Claw "? He did everything. Really? He just sent it to me in a message. And what did it consist of? How was the training? It was...I broke it up into two days because there was too much volume. Aha. But there are a lot of metabolic training with supersets, very functional. So, you give it your all for 2 minutes. Then you can do , say, a quick deadlift, then leg curls on a fitball, two minutes of intense cardio again, and then something like a block pull or pull-ups with a press, and cardio again.

So it's just back and forth , and plus about 6,000 calories a day for the first four months that I was on and a lot of food really. I went from a 29 waist size to a 34. Wow. in about 4 months. Was n't it a concern to stay slim, if it was, I just... But as soon as I cut calories, everything went away right away. It just burned out, and besides, we started wrestling training at the same time, right? Because your basal metabolic rate was somewhere around 3600 or so .

Yes, and wrestling training was something completely different on top of that. So this is at least intuitive , and even more so. Living the life of a bodybuilder is extremely difficult. Why? You You are so limited in what you can do. This is so damn boring. Aha. You eat so much food. You either work yourself to the point of complete exhaustion, pain, and sleeplessness, or you can barely move around the house to do some small things. What was that? I weighed around 205 during the hardest times.

I'm about 175 now. Yes. My God. Yes, it was a lot of hard work. I know. Okay, bench press . I kind of don't want to do it again. Oh, squeeze a little. I just want to do some bicep curls with overhead presses, with some light close-grip push-ups with arms raised for the triceps. So, essentially, it's something like a duck, something functional. Yes. Your ability to make something non-functional is simply non-existent. No. But the other tricky part of this is calories, because 6,000 calories a day is not three full meals.

No, it's stuffing that food in yourself, dude . What did you eat? How do you get 6,000 calories a day? A pile of chicken, rice, sweet potatoes. Too much salmon. I would n't recommend eating as much salmon as I did. Got mercury poisoning. You can also use a strategy like eating protein, chicken, fish, turkey, beef, etc. And then using something like dileucine, which is, as the name suggests, two leucines joined together, and this maximizes the anabolic potential of the protein. By the way, if you guys want to keep things fair and balanced, we can play a little game where the next person in line chooses a superset.

Why does it have to be a superset? Why can't we just relax? Or simply chooses an approach. Why can't we just hang out, dude? It's just non- stop. I've been keeping up with this guy for a week now. I can't believe I'm still alive. This is kind of harder than I feel even worse than when I'm in Iowa. You probably have PTSD after the last time you prepared for a movie. How was the preparation for " Baywatch " and "Steel Grip " different? Uh, "The Rescuers" is mostly cardio , supersets, a lot of cardio.

I was able to start bodybuilding before filming even started. It took me three months to prepare, and then I just added cardio and supersets. Okay. And then I was able to become very relieved. I also took too many diuretics, though, for that role. It was really, really bad. But fortunately, my body was able to recover. I peed with Coca-Cola. Yes. Well, the trainer I worked with on that movie just...I had to be shirtless every day. And that's why he always worked at the limit of his capabilities.

Always on the edge. Just exhausted. But it worked. I would wake up in the morning and feel completely bloated. He looked like he had never lifted weights. But then I used some sugar. Aha. I did a couple hundred push-ups, resistance bands, and a few pull-ups. It was like training for a bodybuilding competition every day, like a mini- training every day. In principle, this was the case for several films, but none were as heavy as " Steel Grip". Yes. Why, why was that one heavy? Because in " The Rescuers" you seemed dried up.

Is this fair? I was leaner, but Kevin Von Erik was massive. Yes, he was big. My maximum weight during The Rescuers was around 175 pounds. This is my current weight, right? But just a slightly different body composition, just a little bit. You can take a person with 15% fat and a person with 11%. And if you give someone who has 15% milk thistle extract or a diet, you're actually just stressing the muscle fibers. So I don't know what your body fat percentage was in " The Rescuers" compared to...

but yeah, it was low. It was low for both, but one was low due to diuretics, and the other was naturally low. Yes. Right. Yes. It was just skin on muscle. It was tough. But in that scene there was a Ninja Warrior course. Sorry. In that movie. Yes. And uh, the director said, "Zach, do n't you even dare try to take this course, because you're made of vines and bamboo, and you'll just break in half." No, no, no. I was...this has nothing to do with it.

But from that moment on, I knew, I'm like, I'm going to do it on the first try. Did you pass the obstacle course? On the first try. Completely. " Salmon ladder". And it's the same one as in the movie, but they did n't have, uh, stunt mats laid out...They only laid out the mats for the first part of the strip, just because they were sure I would only do the first half. No, because I told them I wasn't going to go through everything. But underneath was just plain water, like on a standard Ninja Warrior strip.

So on the second take, I fell on the last part of the vertical stairs, and, damn, what height was that fall? I think it's about 15 feet ( about 4.5 meters). A. Yes. Yes, that's a good encouragement. Have you thought about trying something like Hyrox, Spartan or similar obstacle races, Chris? Uh, I know it's trendy, but ...I've already worked out my "CrossFit era." Yes. Of course. When everyone was doing this, somewhere from 2016 to 2020. Yes. When it was super- duper popular. If you had to choose one CrossFit exercise that you consider the most valuable, what would you call it?

The most valuable? Which one gives the most... Great question. Ahem. I'll tell you mine. This is taking the barbell to your chest. What is this? Traction. Jerk. Jerk. Jerk. Yes, high-rep snatches seem very dangerous to me. I know. But that's why it's nice when it starts to work out for you. This, in fact, is the problem with CrossFit. Yes. Metabolic conditioning under heavy load with difficult lifts. The most difficult. What did I like? Well, that was the first time I learned that active recovery speeds up liberation from slavery.

Because I loved working out so much, I would come in on my Thursday off, get on the Assault bike , die there, and then come out and be like, "Oh?" Yes. " And the pain is all gone." Aha. Instead of: "I'm in pain, I need to rest." It sounds like: " Everything hurts, I need to move." So this was one of the fundamental changes . Surprisingly, if you train twice a day, add cardio, stretching, or even light exercise on top of your main workout, muscle pain appears less often.

It goes away faster with heat treatments or ice. Why don't we do pull-ups? Hey, we now have a personal trainer. Let's do this. Why don't we do pull-ups? Pull-ups. Just regular pull-ups. He wants a superset with parallel bars, Chris. Of course, it sounds good. Aha. See, now he likes supersets. Oh, that's because you picked a cool superset, dude. Dude, look at this. This is cool. Oh, that's very good. We should include this after executing the approach. Stop it, Ben. Let's do this. This is a real war.

This workout is a war between my desire to just “rock” and Ben’s desire to make us more resilient. I want to be bigger. Ben wants us to be in better shape. Chris wants to have " cardiomegaly" at 60 and die of a heart attack while I'm snowboarding. Does this mean good cardio? Yes, Chris. Yes. Okay. I want good cardio. Good cardio. Aha. Yes . Well noted. Megacardio. I want this. Yes. So, what do you think about CrossFit? What was your main conclusion after it? They teach you how to do Oh, man, I'm so damn injured.

Have you been injured often? Of course. Like everyone else. Me too. Like everyone else. These are two herniated discs, damn...a knot. Damn , this is such an unpleasant thing. What the hell is this ? Schmorl's node. This is when a little bit of disc material, sorry, vertebral material , squeezes into the vertebral body. It's like it's piercing...it's causing swelling in the vertebra itself. Terribly. These are such injuries. A year goes by, and you just think: “ Why the hell did I do this to myself?” I take such good care of myself, work hard, and do everything right." And then how did you hurt your back?

What were you doing? Deadlift at Chris Hemsworth's house. Classic. You should definitely be called upon for some superhero stuff . Isn't it? Have you auditioned or participated in anything like this in the past? I never really wanted it, to be honest. Do you like superhero movies? I think, well, it depends on what it is. Superhero movies can be anything from Suicide Squad to The Avengers, right ? So these kinds of things just become trendy, and everyone takes them off. Mhm. They lose their appeal. If someone wanted to pay me, say, $20 million for something commercial, I ...

But I don't think you'd make a good Wolverine. Wolverine is a cool character, but, um... Well, it all depends on who you're playing and how it's done. Because you are right. I just...I really want independent film to flourish. It has always been close to my heart. And somewhere around 2007-2008, I think it started to fade away. It was the year, I think, 2008—"Oil," " No Place for Old Men." Yes. Really cool independent films were being made. Aha. And then everyone switched to superheroes, you know , and...

Yeah. Yes. A decade, a decade and a half of this. I do n't know. I think what's truly heroic for me is to just make a cool movie that's not about a superhero. Well, the advantage is that if you're pumped up enough, you can be a superhero regardless of the role. Oh, yes. Well, I have accumulated so much knowledge about training from different trainers over the years. It's easy to become big, but I want to play real people, you know , not constantly pumped up characters.

That's the fun of it , man. Doing different things, because when you're constantly in a state of learning, you try a new genre. And I've never had one that was n't extremely fun. For example, acting in a comedy. Yes. Because it's a challenge, and it's all the same thing . I mean, acting is just the art of listening. And once you learn to apply it across the spectrum of different genres, it always becomes interesting. It's always interesting. You are always learning. You are always doing something new and constantly changing.

And what's the worst part? In all this work? As for the job in general... What is your least favorite part of this job? There are certain aspects of fame and so- called "fame" that come with it that are very difficult at times. It's just like... I love people, man. I like being among them. This is my favorite part of being human— being with other people. And there comes a certain point when you realize that it becomes very difficult to be in groups of people anymore. Fame drives you crazy.

You know, the person I've seen it around the most is Rogan. If you are in a room with normal people who are behaving completely normally. Yes. And he walks in, the whole room changes. It's like a reality distortion field that exists around someone. It's like in the movie "28 Days Later." You see what seem to be performative changes, to a certain extent. I honestly think it's the same as being a very, very beautiful woman when people just can't act normal. They talk to you and just think, "Oh my god, you're so incredibly hot." Don't say anything stupid.

I can't believe how hot you are. You are so beautiful. Please don't be ashamed." And I think it's basically the same with guys who have a very high status. Yes. Um, I'm sure being around Trump or J.D. Vance or someone like that would cause the same kind of reality distortion field because people just look at them and think, "Oh my God, that's Donald Trump, I can't believe it, and there's that hairstyle," and I'm like, "What's he going to say?" He is so tall and precise. People just can't behave normally .

And that means that if you're a person who's always surrounded by people who are acting strangely, you think, " I can't trust the world." It seems like everyone has their own plan. And it's like, someone has a plan. And most people are just like, "Oh my god, it's Zac Efron." I just want to try to be normal. I can't believe he's here. They just kind of burn from the inside, right? The difficulty is, don't get me wrong, I love interacting with fans and making their day better.

And sometimes when you approach someone, they have a story about how a movie you were in influenced them in the best way. And it 's sincere, it's so nice. This is the best interaction in the world. But then there is fatigue. You have to understand that every time you have this conversation, if it's the 50th time in an hour and a half, you just get tired. Your tank, your tank is empty. What about, um, and then you're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." "Exactly." What about the filming process itself?

What do you like least about this? And for most people, it's probably just sitting and waiting. But the hardest part of filming, you know, is that it varies. It depends on how big your role is in the film. Usually, if I'm acting in a movie, I'm the first to arrive and the last to leave every day because I'm the main character. The most difficult thing is that the film shooting schedule involves 10-12 hours of work per day. You can only work a certain number of hours in a row before you have to get 10 hours of rest, like a truck driver.

Well, kind of like a truck driver. But we constantly go beyond those 12 hours, almost every day. I've never been in a movie where we went beyond those boundaries. When you start, you go to work at 4am on Monday to start filming. Usually, filming starts at 6 a.m., depending on travel time, followed by an hour for makeup and hair. And you finish at 6:00 PM the same day. In essence, rest time stops catching up with the night schedule. So by Wednesday, the time to go to the playground will be moved from 4 a.m.

to noon. You work from noon to midnight . Then your 10 hours off means you come back at 4am on Thursday. And on Friday you come at 8 am, and after Friday on the weekend they usually work until 4-5 pm, because then you have a day off, and there are no time restrictions . So if you add up all your sleep this week, it comes out to about four hours a day. You go to bed at a different time every night. You forget what it's like to sleep.

This is essentially a shift job. You work shifts for months while you are in the frame. And this part—it's hard. The rest is so much fun, but it just wears you out. You just become exhausted. I would really like to act in films where I just come in for a small role. Have a few days off a week, but that doesn't happen often. But there's so much good in this , man. The film industry is all these people who have come together, and they are the best in their fields in whatever they do.

Makeup, special effects, sound, cinematography — all by elite professionals. And when you have a group of people who really want to give it their all and create something special, it's just satisfying. You're like : everyone's at such a high level, and it's a team sport, man. You're like the quarterback of this incredible team, where everyone is elite. This is incredibly, damn , fun. I love creating art . Yes. Do you train in a group , or usually by yourself? Usually alone. I mean, I trained in a group for a long time, and it gave really good results.

Good changes. That's good, right? Yes. It's just a responsibility to someone. Right. This is the main thing . How do you like the TZT, Ben? Perfectly. Especially recovery. This means that you can give it your all, and then come back the next day and give it your all no less. I feel pretty good. Yes. but without...you know, some say, "What about your heart rate variability, doesn't it drop after hard training," blah blah blah, but it's not really neuromuscular fatigue that you recover from quickly , it's more of a musculoskeletal system so the nervous system stays in order, but if you're someone who keeps your sanity by training daily and who needs a little extra recovery, a slight effect on libido, a very good effect on the brain, a very good motivational effect.

Oho. So you have more drive. You felt that overall there was more Yes. I mean, you know, it's a forward motion molecule. Are you trying to keep your back perfectly straight? Yes. So, while you're here, we'll change hands. It's like you're squeezing something here with this hand. That's it, strong. These are fascia. It's slow, almost like balancing from one foot to the other. Even slower. Yes. And you will feel that now your back should engage. Oh yes. It's a pleasant feeling. It's just stabilization, like Stu McGill.

A little more time with your foot in the air. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh, yes. Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's damn good. What are your favorite methods that you experiment with? I know you use a pressure chamber, red light, sauna, everything in a row. Is this something you think more people should pay attention to ? Uh, a hyperbaric chamber—that's pretty elite. I did the protocol with Gary Bree, at his house and I did it every day. I think I lasted 18 days straight. Yes. Two hours.

Yes. 20 and 5. Are you telling me about you and Gary's penis pump again? We have n't gotten to that point yet. This was next on my list. Days in a row. Two hours. Gary Bree Penis Pump . Yes. OK. But I will say that after so many consecutive dives and depth changes. OK. Um, not only did I feel much better and wonderful, but I also retained my energy. Yes. And while I was in the hyperbaric chamber , I was able to complete Elden Ring, which is incredibly difficult.

He took out a vertical camera. Vertical solid body. And I put my PS5 there. Devil. And it's a lot of fun. This is cool. Yes. I mean hyperbaric, since I started using it constantly . That's right , honey, okay. Although it's strange to talk about it , because it's so inaccessible. I know. You have to go to God knows where, to that damn place. Most people don't have one at home. This is impossible. Go to that place. 2 hours there. 90 minutes at depth. This is expensive.

This takes time. That's right. So [ __ ] it. But it's amazing. The best inexpensive life hack. I think I always travel with that set of rubber bands. Just Rogue rubber bands. Those are easy. You can train almost anywhere. Oh, have you ever done occlusion training ? Occlusion training . What are they called? What are these belts called? Katsu. Katsu bands. I don't know any of those. I know occlusion training. BFR training. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. Training with blood flow restriction . Devil. This is such a breakthrough, man.

This works so well. You can travel with these little bands , I just put them on every time I workout . Essentially, by cutting off the blood supply, you are tricking your body into thinking it is under much more stress than it actually is. So you can use You do squats, right, Ben? Just like BFR squats. Yes. Like a real old-school, real studied BFR protocol—it's 30-20-10. Like 30 reps, rest, then 20, then 10. Something like exhaustion through the sets, and you shouldn't be pulling the tourniquet over your arms and legs at the same time, although you can .

And this is what I do when I travel: I train my legs and arms using the 30-20-10 pattern, doing, for example, 30 squats, 30 TRX pull-ups, 30 lunges, 30 push-ups, and then 20. You might ask, what are the dangers of occlusion? Death? Er, a potential stroke that could lead to death. Ahem. Yes, but muscle gain... But, in essence... But gain. Yes. Risk. Yes, growth. Risk of some kind of cardiovascular incident due to complete occlusion in both arms and legs, right? which is a risk if the measured pressure in millimeters of mercury is too high.

But the secret is that if you press on a fingernail or toenail, blood flow should return within 3 seconds. You'll be able to tell pretty quickly when you've tightened them too tight. Because you basically just pinch your finger and the Japanese turn into 4 seconds, and then you realize: " I'm going to die." The Japanese cuffs actually come with a real hand controller that allows Oh, it's an electronic adjuster up and down. You set the pressure in millimeters of mercury . How about I like this shoulder press machine from Arsenal Strength?

Let's do this. Yes, he is truly wonderful. Chris, who do you think you've learned the most from during your podcast? Because I heard that Chris Bumstead was in your... You mean from a training perspective? Yes, from a training perspective. Who do you think it is? Who did you learn the most from? Honestly, Sibam and I just talk about family life and emotions. We're just talking about how to cry and all that . Yes. Of course. That's right. I don't really talk about training. Real manly things.

This is true. Chris Bumstead and I have the strangest conversations in the world. I heard, I heard you had some pretty deep conversations about training. I don't know who these guys were, to be honest. Dude, Mike Israel is just incredible when it comes to the evidence base. Ben and I recorded issue 75, then 180, and then another one, I think it was the 600th. What's your best guess right now on how to remove microplastics? Coffee enemas. Coffee enemas. You always have something to do with your ass, do n't you?

When I first met Ben, within the first hour he gave me an ozone enema and a coffee enema. I had to open up Greenfield's old stock of medicine. It's a very fleeting relationship with Ben. I see. Suddenly you're already shoving something up your ass. You're like, "I'm in the middle of Idaho." I don't know. I do n't know this guy at all . Remember that guy who used to come to our house, Neil? Yes. This guy stuck his finger this deep into my nose, he was able to open the nasal cavity so much that he stuck his entire finger almost into the brain and somehow moved it there.

Yes. The basis of embryonic development is that the gastrointestinal system from mouth to anus develops at about the same time as the mouth to anus. It is from the river to the sea. But for the damn biohackers, right? Develops around the same time as fascia. So if you can manipulate, for example, through the mouth, nostrils, etc., you can induce fascial changes, say, in the legs, neck, or back. That's why they climb through the mouth. And so I can pick his nose and relax his iliotibial tract.

Exactly. Aha. Steeply. Aha. Aha. Tickle your tonsils. Now we're doing bodybuilding, bro. This is better. Isn't that better, Ben? Is n't that good? Well, for conversation. Yes, we keep the heart rate below 100. Results above 100. No cardio issues. No. No. I want cardio. Thank you. Finger in the nose. And did you feel it? Did you feel any difference? Yes. I broke my jaw from that damn thing. I had a serious accident when I was young. And what did you do? Uh, I just fell on granite , like in a fountain, and it just...

What the hell were you doing? Nothing. I just ran in my socks, you know? Aha. Just slipped and fell, and uh, my jaw was hard to work with after that, but when these guys get in there, dig inside and release all that tension, is that still a source of pain? Like, does it hurt when it's cold or something? Yes, it hurts. It's just uneven. So it's hard to chew. Devil. How old were you? Uh, somewhere around 22. 22. What happened? Yes. Okay. Sorry. But I did, I did it like Kanye West with wires in...

I was going to sympathize with you because I thought you were running around in your socks in the house when you were nine. No. You were 22. Yes. You are an idiot. Yes. Damn idiot. In Mickey Mouse slippers. Yes. It's like a Tom and Jerry cartoon. Yes. You're like, you're like the hero of a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I wish it was a heroic story. No, you just fell. You fell in your own home. Yes. Like a grandmother. Yes. Brilliant. I fell in the kitchen. I can't get up.

Did you see the lot I sent you? What? What? Did you look at the ad I sent you? Yes. But you said not to buy it. Yes. I don't want you to buy it because I want it myself. O. Oh, sure. That's what you meant . Yes. Well, it looks cool, right? This may surprise you, Zach, but my bank account and yours are completely different amounts. I think yours is much bigger. They filled the pot. I think you're kidding me right now . No, I won't.

Well, I don't think mine is as big as you think, my friend. I mostly did this as a competition to measure independence. You just need to sell a few more toothpicks, bro. Aha. Damn, dude. I did n't even think about it. Because the one I gave you is too expensive for me. I can't afford it, I can't afford it yet. Maybe my brother and I can split the costs. Podcasting is one of the few commercially successful projects that gets better the more honest you are. Aha.

And that's very cool. Yes. Well, you know, people respond more when you're open, genuine, sincere, and candid. And you think, "Okay, so I can do more of what I want, be more open, and that drives the business too, which is really great. But there's always that thought in the background, " How much do I have to compromise on what I want to do to keep the business afloat?" "Exactly. And every time you ask yourself that question, it feels kind of I know disgusting. It does. But again, these [ __ ] financial constraints.

I think you're in a unique position, Chris, because, first of all, man, I just think your podcast is really amazing. But you also have these long conversations, you know, and I think, I think the authenticity of what you do comes across really, really well in the show. As a consumer of your podcast, I would say you have a lot of room to move. If it's not crappy products, I think you can sell whatever you want. We did, fortunately, there are a lot of brands like Eight Sleep.

I would sell it to anyone. This is this [ __ ] amazing game-changing product and I don't have, except for the fact that I use it and they pay for the show. I have no loyalty to them as a brand, right? But they [ __ ] cool. Like, the product is amazing. It helps. It helps, especially when we're talking about detoxification pathways. When you're full of them , you can't sleep at night because your body is going from hot to cold. You know what else I've noticed ?

I love it, one of my favorite things about talking to people like Ben is the opportunity to think about what's next, some cool experimental stuff. If I could bet on some kind of industry, well, lymphatic... aesthetic enhancement. There's a whole industry on Instagram right now, Youman told me about it. There's a woman there who does procedures that are essentially replacing cosmetology, just through lymphatic drainage. The point is, there's a lot of fluid retention in the face, and the puffiness under the eyes that you're trying to fix with fillers or makeup or whatever , you can actually just get rid of it by getting that damn lymph out.

Draining, you just get it out, and your face looks a lot better. I think If I could put on some low- intensity method to make people look Who came on the podcast to tell you about this? Youman. Oh, Youman. Yeah, the reason you wake up with puffy eyes after a bad night's sleep is because of impaired lymphatic drainage, right? The cleansing that's supposed to happen while you're asleep. So, like when you take NAD or creatine to counteract the effects of sleep deprivation, you're just giving your body what it should be producing while you're asleep .

By doing lymphatic drainage, you're doing what your body should be doing with a good night's sleep. So it would allow people to get 5 hours of sleep a night and still look good. Oh, yeah. I mean, maybe it would compensate for the lack of sleep. She does it. Does it. It's so cool for social media because she shows half of her face. Oh, yeah. She does it on one half, and when you look at it, it's like a Snapchat filter: one half is clear and toned, and the other one is really swollen.

How do you learn that? You have to go to someone and they... I don't know, I'll give you her Instagram. It's just incredibly interesting. She has, like, a million followers, all women who are health-conscious and trying to be more beautiful without cosmetic procedures . But does she use any kind of tool or technique? Various things. Well, brushes and, like, I mean, does it make sense to sell this for self- use or does she just do it for herself? Okay. She does it for herself, but you could definitely sell it as a service.

So if you were to create, you know, like going to a massage therapist for bodywork, but if you had something like that for your face for women, as a kind of non-surgical intervention, that's still the main problem that I have, man, because of these disrupted detox pathways, is sleep. So sleep is still so hard. So something that can help What does it look like? Insomnia. Hard to fall asleep, It's hard to stay asleep. So you're taking 20- minute naps a few times a night. A lot of that.

For me, it's pretty much constant. I've worked with a few artists. It's just the shooting schedule. What makes you great at what you do also leads to creative thoughts at night. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll take mine . See, that's a good workout pace, Ben. That's the pace. I want to be able to talk the whole time. Have a good chat. Yeah. Chat a little bit. Pump up. Get a little full. And then go eat. And then go eat some damn tacos. If you have nothing to do after the gym and you've set aside enough time, a leisurely pace is what you can afford.

For me, if I start at 8:30, I have until 9:30 to shower and be ready for the podcast at 10:00. So you have to squeeze in as much as possible. more volume in that time frame. So you're now set up to almost rush through your sessions. Yeah. Or maximize your training time. Well, I made that choice just because of, you know, family time and other things in the morning . How many podcasts do you do a week? At home—almost every day. And when I'm traveling— almost none for my show.

Ben has really turned his severe ADHD into ultra-productive and the best lifestyle I've ever seen, but he actually has a disability. You just can't say that. Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen anyone else who's been so hard on themselves. He's working at full speed, constantly on the edge. Is there anyone else, Ben, who you're excited about or who you're excited about in the world of biohacking and experimentation right now? Yeah. Who? Because I wonder who the next generation of Ben Greenfields will be. Nick Norrit, not familiar.

probably one of the best health and science research newsletters out there right now , which is fast is gaining popularity, MD, PhD, who decided to go into content creation instead of clinical research and medicine. Okay. And he's good. He's really good. Um, I still think Thomas Dow is a little underrated. He's great. I think he's just kind of in the shadows, although you wouldn't call him a newcomer anymore. Chris, have you seen the movie "Back Rooms"? No. Is it good? Have you seen "Back Rooms"? No.

Are you not sorry you didn't do it? Yes, hell, of course. One of my favorite movies this year. I'm not really good at scary movies. He's not like that. This is not that. This is, I swear, this is not that. I walked out of the theater at " Saw 2" and told my wife I would never watch a horror movie again in my life, and I kept my word. What a wimp. I'm very sensitive to that kind of [ __ ]." Back Rooms is not like that.

It's psychological is the right word, but I'm going to think about this [ __ ] . Have you ever seen a movie called The Ring? No. Oh my God. It ruined my life for six years. What are your, um, favorite movies from the last few years? What have you seen, besides Back Rooms, from the last few years? I don't know, man. I have to go back to my favorites, like The Matrix, all the Russell Crowe movies, anything with Daniel Day-Lewis. He got in touch. Russell Crowe got in touch.

It was really nice. Yeah. Oh, man. He's a legend. We did a movie called Freedom Beer. He's an absolute legend as a person. Which is weird because... well, it's not weird, but sometimes people get a bad rap, like they're [ __ ], and I would say Russell has a bit of a reputation in the industry. But it just goes to show that it's not you should believe everything they say, because you go and meet him. He's the nicest guy in the world. He's the coolest guy in the world.

So never believe anything anyone says about anyone. The problem is, the total sample of people who have interacted with any superstar, pop star, actor, or any media personality has had, like, five interactions. That's right. You only need a few times, and you're like, "Well, Russell Crowe." Yeah. Yeah. Don't you remember how he talked to that person last week? And then, before you know it, it becomes your whole [ __ ] personality . But also, I was on set with him , and, like, he was right about something like, "Hey, the camera has to be here," and the cameraman would say to me, "Dude, you have to stand on this side so that these two shots make sense." And the cameraman would say, "No, I don't have it." And Russell is like, "Yes, you have to go to the other side; it won't cut," because he's also the director.

And the cameraman is like, "No," he says into the microphone, "Hey, is Russell right? Do I need to go to the other side? " They say, "No, you're in the right place ." And he says, " Russell, I'm on the right side." And Russell turns around and says, "I'm not going to start the take until you go to the other side . I know you're wrong." And then he says, "Guys, just checking just in case. Are you sure I don't need to be on the other side?" And then everyone behind the camera consults and says, " Actually, yes, you need to change sides." And Russell says, "See, I told you." And the guy went over, and we did the take.

Now, to me, as a participant in the scene, he was right. Mhm. A lot of people would call Russell an [ __ ] in that situation. Yeah. Because of the way he did it. did. I don't think it was an asshole's act. He's passionate and he wants to, he doesn't want to waste anyone's time. He told the guy several times where he needed to be. And I, being a coward, would have just done it and wasted 10 takes. He screwed up the editing. We would have had to shoot the next day.

And we would have had to come back, which would have cost us millions of dollars, whereas Russell insisted on his way because you don't want to cause trouble. Exactly. So where is the line between someone being an [ __ ]? Because I don't believe it was an asshole's act. When you tell people this story, they're like, "Oh my God." Well, what's weird? How did he do it? Well, what's weird is that Russell has to pay for it in a weird way. It's like if you're the kind of person who insists on his way in these things, you're sacrificing your commitment to the whole production to save the process a little bit.

That's right. Yeah. I remember taking all the on myself. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, although it's for the good of everyone who's there, for the good of everyone. Um, I remember I was talking to Keegan about that scene with Christian Bale where he runs over the cameraman, and Keegan says to me, "Dude, you don't [ __ ] understand." He's been on set for six hours." Yeah. They were rehearsing this scene, and he was trying to prepare for this very emotional thing that's going to happen. And there's someone, damn it, walking behind him while he's trying to focus.

And he's losing his nerve. He's like, "Well, don't you have to bang your fist on the table at some point and say, 'Hey, this movie's not making my job any easier.'" And if we go over the time limit, the line producer, damn it, is going to run over everyone, and the financier, damn it, is going to run over everyone, and everyone who's here has to stay. Yeah. And it's fun, and all the time, you know, especially with actors that we like, and in movies that you and I seem to like, you're already teetering on the edge, you know, a fine line between keeping your sanity in any case.

I mean, you literally become someone else for a while. The line between who you are and who you become is very thin, and you're tired, and it's just, well, not quite... You're already so exhausted that the way professionals keep their cool is always amazing to me. And then you start working with method actors, and it's a whole different story. Who have you worked with, who was a method actor? The first time I worked with Nicole Kidman, she was in method, and I didn't know it. And what was it?

It was the movie "Newspaperman " with Matthew McConaughey, which means she didn't come out of... She was in character the whole time . I'm like, "Oh my God, I thought , I thought Nicole Kidman was Australian ." I didn't know she was from the South. She had a Southern accent throughout... she didn't come out of character." No. And our characters were in love. So I thought she was flirting with me off camera. Steeply. That's pretty cool. I would actually, if I were playing opposite some hot chick, I would say, "Hey, didn't you think about the Stanislavsky method while shooting this movie?" Yes, that's right.

How are you feeling? Perfectly. Guys, do you want to do this? Okay, last minute. Let's pump up our muscles. They said it would be fun. Good approach. Oh, my God. Such a pump. Come on. Thank you, Benjamin. Well, we're done. I managed to convince Ben Greenfield to do bodybuilding instead of cardio. And now I'm going to eat. See you next time.

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