9 Unbreakable Rules of Consistency and Commitment | Ed Mylett

Key Takeaway

Most people aren't willing to do the work. Success comes from discipline, consistency, and commitment - refusing to be outworked in any arena. Whether in football, broadcasting, or personal fitness, the foundation is the same: put in more time and preparation than anyone else. When you let yourself go in one area, you become a fraud to the principles that created your success.

Episode Overview

Former three-time Super Bowl champion Troy Aikman shares insights on leadership, dealing with failure, maintaining excellence after success, and the importance of consistent hard work. He discusses his challenging rookie season (0-11), the evolution of his Hall of Fame career, his transition to becoming the top NFL broadcaster, and the discipline principles that have driven his success across multiple careers.

Full Transcript

Transcript of 9 Unbreakable Rules of Consistency and Commitment | Ed Mylett from The Ed Mylett Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Hey everyone, welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Hit that like button and be sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel so you never miss my show. Whether it's Tuesday, Thursday, or Saturday, here's our first guest. Welcome back to the show, everybody. Today's special. It's not every day you sit across from a three-time Super Bowl champion, Super Bowl MVP. Let's just be real. One of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, one of the greatest athletes of all time. And by the way, ironically, I think actually one of the most underrated athletes of all time.

It's a fact. But actually, as impressive as his football career was, I like the fact that the dream didn't stop there and he was able to post football create an incredible brand, an incredible career, an incredible life post football. So, I just want to pick the brain of the great Troy Aman. Troy, good to have you. Yeah, great to be on. Great to meet you. I've been looking forward to this. You, too. By the way, he's also an entrepreneur. We ought to just talk about that first.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a he's in the beer business now. Yep. Yep. Yep. Tell me about that a little bit. It's been a It's been an interesting year and a half or so. Actually, we started uh two years before we launched. We've we've now been in stores for a year and a half strictly in Texas, but I worked for a distributorship in college. Uh I like beer. Uh I don't drink a lot, but but but you look like you drink any. Yeah. you know, I but uh yeah, I met my partners and uh we started kicking it around and seeing if it's something that I might want to do and and uh you know, I I work out uh I I'm mindful of what I put in my body, all those things.

And I said, well, if we can do something that complements my lifestyle, then I'm all for it. And so, uh we spent two years uh coming up with the recipe. And what's unique about Eight, uh which is the name of the beer, is that we're 100% organic grains. We have no adjuncts and no fillers. So, we're the only widely available beer that can stay that can say that. Uh, every other widely available beer adds corn, rice, syrup, or sugar. So, there's a lot of junk that's thrown in there.

Ours has none of that. And yet, we're still at 90 calories and just 2.6 carbs. So, So, So, that was my next question. Those two things. things. things. So, it's been really good. And and you know, I feel like we're a lifestyle brand quite honestly because the people who I've always been inspired by are the people who never settle and the people who do the work and and all those things that that that and I feel like I'm one of those people, you know, and that's why I I'm usually drawn to that.

Uh and so that's really who this beer was made for. Now, anyone who wants to drink it that wants a better for you beer, beer, beer, uh we'll certainly accept. By the way, you're in the right demo in this audience. They can drink beer and be healthy. And it's actually unique. They can get it anywhere. Where can you get a in Texas? Uh yeah, it's it's uh distributed across the entire state. Eventually, we we hope that we'll move outside of Texas and, you know, be in other states.

Get it online so we can buy it online. Can eventually be uh I don't know what the restrictions are on that. I've been asked about that a lot. Um but it's done really well. So, we just we just kicked off our second year year year and a lot of good stuff is happening. So, So, So, congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. you uh like I said, you've had this incredible life. I want to I'm going to ask you hard stuff today, stuff that I don't think you get asked all the time.

I had a chance a few weeks ago. I was with Brady for a few days at an event and I've been blessed that I get to have been around some guys that played your position at a pretty high level. Um Woody John Elway's been a friend of mine for a long time. What's a throughine for the great leaders in anything, but especially we'll just take quarterbacks now. What's a through line then? Don't be humble today between like a Troy Aman because you're different personalities, very different.

Troy Aman, a John Elway, a Tom Brady. What is the throughine that made you all great leaders? I know there's differences, but what's a throughine? throughine? throughine? Yeah, I think uh we are all different. We all lead uh in a different way, which is which is true of of any field, of course. Uh, but I think that probably what the through line is for all great quarterbacks, great leaders at that position, uh, or in general is that they they put in the work and and they're not outworked, you know, and I think that that first of all, you got to play well, but but you have to also be the guy who your teammates understand is is there putting in the work and doing what's necessary necessary necessary in order to be the best that you can be.

And I think that those guys that you mentioned, I'd like to think that I'm one of them as well. That uh your teammates never questioned your commitment, your dedication, uh and your persistence to being the best that you could be. could be. could be. Why does it matter? Like I I uh like in business as an entrepreneur, I'll tell entrepreneurs, one of the reasons you got to outwork everybody is when you're leading a team, an ironic thing, and I maybe this isn't true in football, but I think it is.

You actually create safety for everybody around you, stability when you're the hardest working person in the room and the leader. I think that's one of those like invisible things like you actually have created a sense of stability just by your mere presence and your work ethic that doesn't exist if you're a little bit hit and miss in an environment. Do you see that? Yeah. And I and I think that in in football maybe this is true in all sports, but I know that that what I can relate to is the dynamics of a locker room uh and within an organization.

And what generally happens is for the quarterback, the quarterback, the franchise quarterback is always viewed as the guy who didn't really have to fight necessarily for his pay. He's been treated well. treated well. treated well. You know that, okay, well, the organization and maybe even more so now, even though we've seen situations where some quarterbacks have had to hold out and hopefully get what they feel is their, you know, uh, correct corrected pay. Yeah. But I think in general, uh, when you have a franchise quarterback, it's like, "Oh, okay.

Well, his contract's up, so we pay him, and then we move on, and these other guys are holding out, and then they got to, you know, they got to fight a little harder." The quarterback usually has great relationships with not only the coaches, but also the owner himself, and and all that. So, I think that with that, the quarterback has to in his way make the other players, his teammates, understand that that he's with them, you know, that he's one of them and that he's doing the work just like they are.

Uh, and it's not always easy to do. And there there have been those quarterbacks, those guys, those franchise quarterbacks that have struggled struggled struggled uh in that area. And it's and and it's not easy. And and not to get off tangent, but tangent, but tangent, but I think that becomes a challenge right now with what we're seeing in college with the NIL is that now you've got you've got 18 year olds instead of 24 year olds that are having to navigate those waters of getting paid more than the rest of the players within the locker room.

And how do you do that? It's not easy. That's interesting because I uh I've had a chance I had Pton Manning interviewed Pton. I interviewed John Montana and then you and when I when people make their list, this is which is interesting to me. I don't know if you take this personally or not, but when people go, okay, my top five quarterbacks of all time, you're usually going to hear Joe's name, you're going to hear Brady's name, and then they'll interchange, you know, Marino, Pton Manning, you know, uh, whoever.

They get their their list. Rogers, I guess, is on that list somehow now. But, uh, Mahomes, I want to know where Otto Graham is. That guy won like 10 championship. I know he doesn't get any, but what is it in your case? I mean, it's clear you should be in that. By the way, I'm sure on many lists you are. I don't mean to say. Well, no, that's not Well, no, I'm not. I'm not. And and quite honestly, [clears throat] Ed, it it does it it doesn't affect me at all.

I mean, it really doesn't. Uh I mean, I played the game hoping that one day I would be thought of amongst the greats of all time. And I and I feel like that happened by the simple fact that I'm in the Hall of Fame. That kind of, you know, when you're talking about, okay, name the top five. I wouldn't probably be in there. Maybe I would be if they mentioned the top 10, but I understand that that my career really was about winning championships, which ultimately is what everyone's career should be about.

That's what they pay us for. But I think that the world that we're in with especially with fantasy football and then for those fans or people who are making those lists, uh, that if they didn't see me play, they look at stats and they say, "Okay, well shoot, I mean, Troy, my numbers are pretty modest." uh relative to many others and and and there's reasons for that. Uh you know, EMTT, of course, there's a reason why he's the all-time leading rusher and you know, but when we didn't throw the ball as often, but when we threw it, we threw it as well as anybody.

Uh and and that's why Michael Irvin's in the in the Hall of Fame as well. So, no. Uh it doesn't bother you. I'm it it does not bother me. In fact, during my Hall of Fame speech, what I mentioned was that I I feel like everyone talks about how team comes first. you you never hear a player say that, "Oh, no. I I'm all about me." You know, they'll say, "Hey, I just want to win." But there's very few, as you know, who really who really who really only want to win.

They want to win as long as they're also putting up their big numbers, you know? Yes. Yes. Yes. For me, For me, For me, uh, I felt like I did sacrifice individually. I felt like I could throw the ball as well as anybody, but I feel like I did sacrifice individually for what was best for the team. And so the greatest reward for that was that I then received the greatest honor an individual can ever receive and that is to be uh voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

So that's what that's what meant so much to me. And uh and the rest of it uh I'm I'm proud of my career uh you know overly proud of it. If someone had told me I you know I always wanted to be a professional athlete. If somebody had told me that I was going to go on and win three world championships and and and have the teammates and the career that I was able to have, I' I would have taken it, you know, all day long.

And so, uh, I'm proud of it. And where that ranks or where everyone else thinks I deser I it just, you know, I've never I've never really uh it's not something you just because, you know, a lot of guys other guys do. I mean, look at look at Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame speech. He's considered the GOAT and he's still like nailing dudes, you know, like and nothing wrong with that. And I just there's an ego that comes with being great at anything that I think is a healthy ego.

But you did you're also known as like one of the most accurate throwers of the football of all time, right? One of the most cerebral guys stuff that quarterbacks do. I asked Nazone one time, you know, the quarterback guru did and he's like probably the most accurate guy I've seen throw the football was actually Troy Aman, but it was all the other things just actually getting into protections that you're supposed to get into. I remember when Payton really couldn't throw anymore. Yeah. yet they ended up doing a lot better with him than they did with um with Brock because of his ability just pre- snap to get them into different the right formations and block and you know obviously you know a lot more about that than I do but I want to ask you also about your career.

career. career. I'm always I'm just fascinated by the people that are the best. Like people don't realize this because they watch it on TV, but every guy that's out there in the NFL was not only the best player more than likely on their, you know, their high school team, but they became elite in college. You were a UCLA guy. Did you come from Nebraska before that? Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Oklahoma. So, you didn't get it at Oklahoma. You end up red shirting at UCLA UCLA UCLA and ends up winning three Super Bowls and an MV a Super Bowl MVP.

But I look at guys like that are just different and I think what's the commonality because even me as an entrepreneur, I'm different than Alon Musk. I'm not anywhere near as wealthy as Alon Musk, but you know, Phil Knight, Alon Musk, and uh you know, Mark Cuban, three very different dudes. What's the through line, right? And I look at Jimmy Johnson. I'll look at Bill Bellichic, Bill Walsh, and let's just say uh Andy Reid right now. They're very different four human beings. You know all of them or knew all of them or met them.

What is common amongst them that made them great leaders? leaders? leaders? That's a tough one. Well, that's a great question. I mean, it really is because I I actually was just having this conversation with somebody that for the most part, for the most part, I would say if you tell me someone's a player's coach, I will tell you then they probably haven't won at the highest level in general. Okay. Okay. Okay. In general. All right. But I think Andy Reid would be regarded as a players coach and he's been one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game.

So, uh, but I do think that think that think that players in general, they they they want to be coached by people that they know are going to make them better, right? right? right? You know, and that's that's the bottom line. I mean, that's the key. And so, do they know something that I don't and they can put me in a position to where I can achieve the things that I want to achieve both individually and then as well for us as a team. This is true in business, true in true in life, true in everything.

I mean, it really is. And so there's obviously a lot of parallels between sports and and business and other things, but you know, you take Bill Bichc for instance. I've talked to a number of people uh you know, clearly regarded as you know, what may be the greatest coach of all time. Uh he's on certainly a short list, but you know, he's not a whole lot different in a lot of ways from the guy that we see. see. see. But when you talk to people who have played for the Patriots, I said, "How how is he so effective?" and they say, "We know that if we do what he asks us to do, to do, to do, there's a really good probability that we're going to win the game.

Win, right?" And so, did you feel the way about Jimmy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Jimmy was tough. I mean, Jimmy was really tough. He he demanded a lot. Attention to detail. No detail was too small. Um, and and and we worked hard, you know. So, we had really talented players. That was his Jimmy's greatest strength probably was was his evaluator. his evaluating of talent. I mean, he was sensational sensational sensational at that. So, we had really talented players players players that worked exceptionally hard and then Jimmy didn't let anything slide.

And so, that's a pretty good formula. I watched something I was last year or the year before. I happened to be watching we have some mutual friends that are involved at at Fox Sports for Football and uh I watched the day that they told Jimmy Johnson that he had made the Hall of Fame and then they threw to you. you. you. Yeah. And I watched your reaction and I thought, I don't know that these guys necessarily got along that well when a dude's beating the drum when you're playing and you know, threaten you with if you don't, I'm going to play Walsh or whatever going on in your career, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you sincerely seemed emotional about it on his behalf. And I wonder if that's just because when you're forged in a battle, even though you're building a company or a family or a football team, that when you get to the other side of that, although it may be messy in the in the middle, that at the end there's this tremendous ad, you know, admireration that you've done something great together. Is that what that was or what was it? Because you were pretty emotional.

emotional. emotional. Yeah. Uh and I didn't know that he was going to be told that he was going into the Hall of Fame. Uh we were going to halftime and my producer said to me, "Hey, uh the studio wants you to watch the a little bit of this halftime show. They they're going to be doing something." Wow. something." Wow. something." Wow. And I just thought, "Okay, they're going to be doing something and then sometime in the second half I'm going to be asked to maybe talk on it." Uh and so I'm just watching what's going on.

And then when I see David Baker walk out, who was running the Pro Football Hall of Fame, then I knew that that Jimmy was going in and I knew that there was a chance, but I had no idea that he was going to be told that night. I thought he was going to be months before he was going to ever find out. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um and so why I was emotional, Ed, was was You're right. Our career I've known Jimmy since I was about 14 years old.

He was recruiting me uh out of high school when he was at Oklahoma State. Okay. Okay. Okay. And I didn't go to Oklahoma State, of course, and then he went to Miami, recruited me there, and I didn't go there. And then I go to Dallas and he's he takes over for Tom Landry. So now he's coaching me and then he drafted Steve Walsh and and and you're right, it got off to a really tough start. But he and I have gotten were really close. And so he's never gone into uh the Ring of Honor uh at Cowboy Stadium where they have all the names and you know, we all feel those of us that played for him feel that if any of us are in the Ring of Honor, he certainly should be in the Ring of Honor.

But that's a decision for Jerry Jones to make. And so I never was certain he would get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame because he hadn't coached long enough was the reason. Not that he didn't deserve to be in. I just didn't think that well he he wanted to go on and do do his boat and be in South Florida and all that. And so I just didn't know that because he'd been a finalist for a number of years and so knowing how much that meant to him and had not yet been recognized for what he had done for those teams with the Cowboys uh for to see him go into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Uh that night was was really special. I mean that's why I was so emotional just I was I was so happy for him. And then uh to take it a step further is he asked me to be his presenter. So, I presented him then, which was the is the greatest honor. I mean, the the greatest uh athletic honor I've ever received is, as I mentioned, going into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the greatest honor I've ever received in general was Jimmy Johnson asking me to be his presenter because the go when you go into the Hall of Fame, you can ask anybody you want to be your presenter.

Wow. Wow. Wow. And so, when he asked me, I just thought, man, that's that is huge. That's a that's a pretty special uh thing. And so Oh, wonderful, man. Congratulations. Speaking of emotions, dealing with failure, failure, failure, it's part of being an athlete. And I think back to I just watching a lot of football. Your rookie year was not gorgeous. So, most people that listen to my show may not even be football fans, but I'm I'm interested to hear why don't you describe it a little bit?

Tell them what happened your rookie year, which was not You weren't winning a Super Bowl that year. No. and and um and how you dealt with a lot of the rejection and failure, criticism that came with it and probably even to this day you get criticism, people saying things about you that aren't real favorable. How do you deal with that? Uh now it's a it's my rookie year was I guess it when I first got criticized or had to deal with that was at Oklahoma. Uh you know, I was trying to run an offense that just didn't fit my skills and and so it was a real challenge.

And U of course is a is a hot bed for football and and we were pretty good at the time and I was probably holding this back just because we're trying to run this wishbone offense and it just wasn't wasn't for me. So that was the first time I really had to deal with it. I broke my leg and then I went to UCLA and ended up going to Dallas as the number one overall pick. But I went to the worst team in football and then my rookie year uh you know new head coach, college coach, bringing in a lot of different players every week.

Uh we we really did not have much of a fighting chance. I was 0 and 11 as a starter. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. And and uh it was tough. I took a beating. Uh we weren't very good up front. front. front. Um Um Um 0 and 11. Everyone 0 and 11. And so there were games where we should have lost based on how I played. Um, and then there were other games where I thought I played pretty well, you know, and and [clears throat] we'd have a lead with 30 seconds left in the game and somehow we'd lose it, you know, and and I just remember thinking, man, what does it take to win a game in this league?

I mean, this is this is brutal, brutal, brutal, right? right? right? And uh, but I never lost confidence. And I and I think the reason was I had a quarterback coach by the name of Jerry Rome and he had played in the NFL and and he just he refused to let me get down on myself. Um, and and there were days when it was hard. It was hard to be positive. It was hard to be upbeat. It was hard to believe that good things were going to happen, but but he was always there being my champion and he was in my corner.

And uh and so fortunately, my very first game, my second season, we won. And so I got that monkey off my back. And then over time, we slowly got better and better. And then, of course, we won the Super Bowl uh in my fourth year and and had great success. But yeah, I just think that think that think that does criticism hurt you even now. Well, nobody likes it. You know, it's easy. I I I hear people say, "Hey, I don't pay any attention to criticism." I have a hard time believing that anyone u just can totally brush it off.

Uh but if you get criticized enough, you know, and and I'm in I'm now that I'm still in the public eye with the broadcasting and all that that uh you just learn that that it's just part of it, you know, uh someone once told me that, hey, it's part of the you know, comes with the dinner and and criticism just comes with the dinner. And and you know, I'll read Twitter from time to time and and if and if you've called a game and you read Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, be buckle up.

I mean, but some of the it's some of it's pretty funny. Uh, and and I laugh at most of it. But what I like, the reason I do it is because, you know, you know, deep down if there's truth to those criticisms. You know, and so I try to evaluate myself objectively and I don't dismiss that. I mean, I I I listen and then think, yeah, you know what? They're right. Me, too. They're right. I kind of dig some of it. Some of it's ridiculous, but some of it I'm like, you know what?

That's I've heard this enough times. there's some validity to this. I do need to make that adjustment that adjustment that adjustment and it's a it's a bit of a wake up and and and all that's good. So, I I I don't I don't mind it. I mean, I honestly don't mind it even the criticism if you know deep down like you've you've done your best and whatever it is and then you just accept it and move on. And and now as you know, I mean, uh the critics now everyone has a platform.

So, uh you get you get all the I everyone gets criticized now. I mean, you just Yeah, we don't we definitely don't lack feedback in this day and age. There's plenty of feedback. I want to ask you about winning. I've always wanted to ask somebody who's won a lot this. I'm going to be honest with you. The things that have happened in my life where I've kind of won in business or whatever, there were there were um it was amazing. There were elements of it that were better than what I thought it was going to be, but there were also elements of it that surprised me.

And I'm curious, you win this, as much as you can go back and really be there, you win this first Super Bowl, maybe you're still on the field, you're in the locker room, it's the next day. Was it what you thought it would be? Like, did you feel what you thought you would feel? Cuz there's these new studies that actually say that you get more dopamine in the pursuit of something that actually when you hit it, there's like a dopamine crash in your brain and it's like, is that all there is?

There's a little bit of a let down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have that happen to you? What did it really feel like? Well, I'll take you back a little bit earlier than that. When when I was about 14 years old, I couldn't wait to get my driver's license. Okay. I mean, I thought that anyone who could drive, how could they ever have a bad day in their life? I mean, I just thought that how could you ever be upset about anything? I mean, you can drive, right?

right? right? Well, you turn 16, you get your driver's license and you you you learn to drive and all that and you've got a car and and then you realize that, hey, you still have bad days and and and that always stuck with me. M so I've so I I I've always known that achievement isn't going to it's not going to fulfill you anymore. I mean it you you you're proud and you're working towards that and you know you reach these goals these goals these goals but it doesn't it it's not going to make you any happier.

It's not you know that comes from a totally different place. Now I will tell you I was I was in my 50s before I really figured that part of it out it out it out really. And so, uh, but when I won my s my first Super Bowl, I I knew it was at least I knew that was in my back pocket and that's what I was drafted to do. So, that's where the satisfaction came like for the rest of my career. They can't say I can't win the big one or or or was it satisfaction or relief?

Uh, great question. I I would say in all honesty, it was it was more relief. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because I was never one of these athletes who uh people would say, "How come you how come you don't smile more? How come you don't you know, you don't look like you're really enjoying playing? playing? playing? I I didn't smile or enjoy it till it was over, till we won, you know, till we won the game. I mean, that's when that's when you were really able to uh en enjoy the effort." But during it, uh no, I mean, it was it was a grind, you know.

So, know. So, know. So, but yeah, I think I I think in all honesty, it was it it was more more relieved. That's been my emotion, too. It's interesting you say that. Like, it wasn't what I thought it would be. Although, there's other benefits that come with it that you don't dream of or imagine as well, but it's almost like, okay, a little bit of relief. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing that's unique about you, brother, is that you repeat. And I know it's a team sport, but we're going to get into broadcasting in a minute.

Then you repeated. I mean, most of you know this, but if you don't, I mean, Troy has had this prolific career at Fox. Now he's Monday Night Football at uh ABC. He's like he's the number one sports broadcaster in football now. He's also become number one of that. So he's guys that has to leave college to go to UCLA because the offense didn't work for him. Ends up becoming the number one pick in the draft. Ends up being one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time and then after that duplicates it with a career that's been dominant.

And by the way, he could be a professional bodybuilder if he wanted that too. So like the guy and the guy is this finds this way to the top position. But a lot of people don't deal very well with rejection or failure. But a lot a lot and you know this whether it's been business people you've met in your life or people that are in a good relationship or an athlete like we're talking about the UFC guys that I work with or the boxers guys work really hard to win a championship and then something happens to them after they win a championship.

That hunger, the drive, whatever it is, they don't most people deal very poorly with winning is the truth. truth. truth. It seems like that has not happened to you. you. you. No, it hasn't. Uh and I I think in general mo most people uh well my approach whether it's in football or whether it was in broadcasting or it's in my personal life is that most people aren't willing to do the work. I mean that's that's what I believe and and I don't know where it came from for me.

I don't know if it was the way I was raised by my father. Uh, but that to me is the is what has driven me throughout my life and in and in everything that I've done. Now, the Super Bowl, as far as that goes, I I can't imagine winning a Super Bowl and then not being more hungry than you were. And the reason I say that is because it is such a great experience that how could you not want to go and do that again and again?

But you played with guys you didn't you played with guys. I've been with I've been with and I've seen those I've seen those teams and and and we all see because it's it is it's a bit of human nature. Uh Jimmy was great in our repeat Jimmy Johnson uh in in how he treated us harder. I mean he worked us harder the second year. Uh he and and there was a reason for that. Uh Jimmy was a psychology major and he felt that hey now is when people get complacent.

I'm not going to allow it. And so he he he worked us even that much harder. But harder. But harder. But you know, Ed, I'm asked a lot about why I work out so much, why I do all this, and and and the reason really is simple that that that uh I feel like my success as a as a player player player was because I just refused to be outworked. And so I was going to do what was ever whatever was required. And when I got into broadcasting, I'm not the greatest speaker in the world.

And uh but I just thought I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna give myself at least a fighting chance and I'm gonna I'm gonna put more time into this. And so I I work hard at at at trying to be as prepared as I possibly can be to go into a broadcast. And then with the working out now in my personal life, it's been about discipline uh and commitment. And if I let myself go, I feel like it I I feel like then I become a bit of a fraud and what I believe is the foundation of who I am and why I've been able to have some degree of success.

And so I think it it's, you know, when you talk about a throughine when you've been asking me those questions, that that's the through line for me. It's discipline. It's consistency and it's commitment. This is like a master class on leadership and recruiting. But there's one thing I got to ask you because I've always wondered this about you. Lots of coaches talk about faith in the locker room, right, before a game, let's pray together, or or they're they're they're Christian men or women that lead teams.

You were the first coach that I saw do it outside the locker room in like postgame interviews. Now, I'm sure it's been done before, but it's not been done before to my understanding on the level you compete at, the magnitude of your job. And I remember watching you get interviewed after game going, "This dude fires me up, man. He always acknowledges God. He always says something about his faith and that's bold. And I actually thought at first I thought it was aggressive because or or amazing because I wonder if it cost him some recruits and it must be okay with him that he does do that.

Was that a conscious thing where you're like I'm going to be bold about what I believe in the lock I'm the same guy in the locker room that I am in an interview that I am with my family that I am coaching baseball and I'm sure you might have caught a little flack for it at one point in your life for being so bold about it. I just want to know your thoughts about your faith, how it plays into being a coach, a leader, and your boldness about it.

Oh, yeah. I've caught a lot of flack uh about that. I think, you know, u when that's why the Bible says you better put your armor on every day, right? I mean, like every single day. Uh you know, and listen, I I I don't judge people or think. I just I just believe what I believe. And you know, Colossians 3:23 says, one of my favorite verses. It says, it says, "Whatever you do, do it with all your heart as if you're working for the Lord." All right?

Whatever you do. All right? And I tell if if you're cleaning the room, your bedroom, do it as if you're working for the Lord because that's that's the perspective God wants us to have. And and that's, you know, we we have a really crazy world. You know, we're we're in a fallen world. Sin is real. The devil is real, too. Nobody wants to acknowledge that. That's what I believe. All right? And and maybe I'm wrong. I'm gonna meet my maker one day, but I know what I believe.

And and I believe in in in Jesus. And I believe in in God. And I believe that in Colossians where it says whatever you do, you do it with all your heart as if you're working for the Lord. And when you do something with all your heart, you you're going to go above and beyond. Amen. Amen. Amen. Right. In in everything that you do. And so God, I don't I don't get how you can separate that. And and so yeah, I've had all kind of flack.

One year there was some some some group that man, they tried to, you know, come and like they said all this crazy stuff like I'm only playing Christian. I'm like, let me tell you something. If I'm only playing Christians, we ain't winning like we winning. I promise you, you know, ain't nobody checking roll at chapel. I got chapel, but but I don't sit around and go, "Oh, you didn't come to chapel. You don't play today." No. Give me a break. You know, I just think you have to be who you are there.

And that's what that's what I said back then. There's nobody that comes to Clemson. If I was an atheist, guess what? Everybody who came to Clemson would know that, right? I think you just be who you are. Beautiful, Beautiful, Beautiful, you know, and there's nobody that comes to Clemson and goes, "Well, dad, I'm man, I know Coach Sweeney was a Christian, you know, and so I just think you just be who you are. I know what my job is. My job is to win football games, but but I know who my maker is, too.

And I know that it when you are a person of faith, when you're a Christian, that's not something you turn on and off. You know, whatever you do, you do it as if you're working for the Lord. Beautiful. And so, yeah, I my paycheck says Clemson University, but let me tell you, at the end of the day, I'm working for the Lord. Oh my god. Because one of these days there's going to be a scoreboard a whole lot bigger than the one that hangs out here in Death Valley.

And it's going to be I, you know, Davo, I did I gave you all these things and all these young people. What did you do for me? And and listen, my job's not to save them, but I I do feel like that I have a responsibility to to for to to be an example and and I try to live my I'm man, I'm the biggest sinner in the world. I try to live my life in a way that glorifies God. And in those moments from time to time, listen, I don't ever want anyone, we live in such a superficial world.

I don't want anyone to ever think that, man, this is because anything that I am is because of God. Anything that I've done is because of God's favor on my life, God's grace, you know, man, God's grace and his favor, his his his will, his Holy Spirit, you know, leading the way. I mean, that's just how I look at it. And so, because we live in this world now where everybody wants to put you up on this pedestal, and I I try to be quick and say, "Hey, listen.

Ain't nothing great about me. If there's anything great about me, it's the Holy Spirit inside of me. All right. And guess what? Everybody can have that. And you said something a minute ago. And listen, I Greatness is for everyone. And and I told our team back in in in 2013, we beat Ohio State in in our first ever BCS win on the Orange Bowl. And and and then we've beaten Alabama a couple times and we we've beaten some of these big big schools. If we walked out there at at at the middle of the field and we compared checkbooks and we compared budgets and we compared all we'd get dominated.

dominated. dominated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We would get smoke. Or if we guess how many number one recruiting classes we've had in 12 years as a head coach? Zero. Right. Right. Right. Zero. None. None. You know, so it's not all about that. All right. It's about it's about people. It's about passion. It's about, you know, uh, uh, synergy, iron sharpening iron. It's about attitude. It's about belief. That's what it's all about. And so, you know, I I don't see it as being bold when I give God the glory.

You know, I don't want any coach either. I don't have glory for anything that that that happens in my life. We're we're two guys that have that in common. I'm a sinner saved by the grace of God, too. Thank God. And uh but I'm told that I'm bold when I do it because I catch some criticism for it just like you do. That's I think what I meant by bold and and uh I like you so much. Yeah. Well, I can't worry. I just don't worry about that.

You know, I mean, listen, I mean that that that outside noise is always going to be there. And and again, if we spend our lives sitting around worried about, you know, who what we need to worry about is pleasing God. And and when you live your life and and that's your belief pleasing God, well, you're going to upset people. That's just part of it. And you know what? Um the the the it goes back to what I said earlier, being inside out. You know, I don't know who said it, but there was a quote.

I love it. It says, you know, ships don't sink because of the water around them. They they sink because the water gets in them, right? And so, we can't let all that stuff in us. Yeah. And you know, we got to let the light inside of us be brighter than the light on us at all times, you know, and so the light gets bright, man. That was the last thing I told our team in 16. I was like, "Hey, you know, this is what we got to do.

The light's going to be bright, man. But we've got to we got to let the light inside of us be brighter. What an opportunity that we have." And and listen, you know what? Some of the best opportunities that we have is when we have failed miserably. All right? That's that's that's when especially when you're a Christian, you know, and so, you know, it's it's it's all good. That's what God teaches us. It's all good. All things all things work together for the good for those who love the Lord.

And so, it's a mindset. It's a mentality. Yeah, it sucks. We hate it. We don't we, you know, but guess what? All things. All right? And so, we're all here for for a blink of an eye. I mean, a blur. I mean, we've lived long enough, you and I, we've seen young young people die. I've spoken at a bunch of funerals. I've had play, you know, former players die. I've had family die. We've all we It's boom, it's a blink of an eye. So, are we going to live for something that's just superficial, you know, that's not my choice.

And and here's the good thing about the God we serve. He gives us the choice. It's hey, it's it's a choice and it's everybody's choice. But I hope that that we can live our lives in a way where maybe other people may say, "You know what? There's just something different." And and you say, "Well, let me tell you about that. There's this guy named Jesus, and man, if you just put your eyes on him in the good and bad, and you believe and you don't quit, man, he's he he's gonna he he's going to bless your life." And some things this side of eternity, we'll never know.

We'll never understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. But that's what fate's all about, you know. It's really just just believing when you don't understand. And then one of these days when we meet our maker, maker, maker, man, we we're going to celebrate and uh you know, and and see the bigger picture uh of life. So awesome. I was saying earlier, I just like you. like you. like you. I just like you. I respect you, but I like you. I'm so glad I like you. You know, when you have somebody from a distance you've admired, then you meet them, they kind of exceed your expectations.

That's a wonderful thing. And you're doing that for me, and I know this for millions of people, too. Talk about the very unique relationship you have with the overall leader of the organization in Vince McMahon. It seems that that's become a special friendship forged through loyalty probably more than anything. And I got to think that friendship's been both good to his career and your career as well. So, speak to those couple things. Yeah, absolutely. So, as far as the, you know, being the leader, it was never really, really, really, it was never really something like I I tried to pursue.

It just it just kind of happened through the years. And I I fell into this unique position where the the boys, the guy, the wrestlers, um, you know, they saw what the business meant to me and that the business always came first. came first. came first. No matter what, the business came first. As far when we're out on the road, obviously, obviously, obviously, you know, your family comes first. But in a business sense, when I'm when I'm on the I don't care how late we stayed out, how whatever we did nightlifewise, it did not affect the next day's performance.

If it did, then you knew you were going to get, you know, you get pulled aside. Say, look, if you can't handle this, then maybe you shouldn't be doing this because at the end of the day, it depends on what we do for our audience. the next day. Guys appreciated that. Okay. Okay. Okay. But they they knew like, okay, hey, you know, takes one of us. He goes out and he has a good time just like everybody else, but at bail time, all that goes out the window until after it's all over with.

with. with. And so, yeah. So, there was this I had and then I had the also I had the the trust of what we call the office, you know, was there's the office and then there's the boys. Okay. Somehow or another, I kind of landed in the middle. Like I was always accepted as one of the boys, but the office knew that that they could they could trust me. And there were a lot of times like our whoever our whoever our whoever our um our uh our talent relations VP was, there was a lot of times they would come to me and say, "Hey, this is, you know, we're having this this issue." And I could go to the guys or a guy or a person, pull them aside and say, "Look, man, you know, I understand and they appreciate that because they know that I'd been through every everything possible to go through." So, you know, it wasn't like, oh, well, you know, Undertaker's a stoogge for the office and he's trying to right, you know, they trusted me.

So I had that trust on each side, but I could many times I could talk to somebody and say, "Hey, look, this is this is their perspective. perspective. perspective. Okay, I understand your perspective because I'm, you know, I'm talent, right? I'm tal I'm with you." So a lot of times that happened and I could divert bigger issues with guys if they could kind of get over, you know, if they could get over the ego and then they knew and they trusted me enough like, well, you know, Taker's not going to screw me over.

So it worked out. It wor it worked out really nice. And then with Vince and and the loyalty and everything else, I um [clears throat] so I was told by WCW I was told I went I I'd been there for about a year. My contract was coming up and I went in to renegotiate my contract and I wasn't looking for a huge bump, but I was looking for, you know, I'd been I had a pretty good year and I was just looking for a slight just a slight bump.

And I was told by, you know, Jim Herd, who was running the company at the time, Oleie Anderson and Jim Barnett, they looked me square in my eyes and they said, "You're a great athlete, but no one's ever going to pay money to watch you wrestle. Seriously." Okay, that's all I needed to hear. hear. hear. So Vince, so I get a meeting with Vince and you know, he eventually gives me that opportunity and that's all he ever promised me was an opportunity. He never told me, "Hey, you're going to be you're going to be this guy here for 30 years and do all these things." He said, "I'm going to give you an opportunity." And and then but that's all I always remembered remembered remembered when I did become a commodity.

when WCW wanted me back, you know, they wanted to pay me big bucks because they were paying everybody big bucks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like, "No, I I can't do that. I, you know, they're offering me a lot more money, but this is the man who made me and and that's just the way it is." And then obviously we just our our we've been through so much together professionally, personally that um you know most times now I don't even deal with Vince Hardley when it comes to business.

business. business. Our our relationship 90% of the time is more of that of friends than it is of of business. Unless there's a special ask that nobody else wants to ask me to do. Then they they say you're the only one that's going to be able to get him to do it. So it. So it. So yeah. Welcome back to Max Out. I'm Ed Milelette and I am so fired up about today's program because I have one of the most successful human beings on the spinning earth right now that is under 35 years old.

This guy to my right right here, you all know who he is. You can tell from looking at him, but let me give him the right introduction. Okay, this young man right here founded Elite Daily, sold that thing for about $50 million. He's one of the great thought leaders on social media today. He's a serial entrepreneur. Forbes magazine called you the millennial mentor, right? And above all of that stuff, having getting to know him uh today, I must tell you, my favorite thing about him is the caliber of man that you are and how generous you are and your spirit and your heart and your character.

So, today is going to be amazing. And so, this is Gerard Adams. Gerard, thanks for being here, brother. here, brother. here, brother. Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. appreciate it. appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So inspired right now. It's just like, you know, it's one thing when you look through the lens of social media and you look through on the videos. It's another when you're able to actually come and feel the energy and see it. And most importantly, right back at you, brother.

Like there's a lot of successful people in the world. But for me, it's about character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And not only do you show up for your community, but the way that you are, you know, when I met you and and how humble you are and how welcoming you were for me and and our team. Really appreciate that, man. that, man. that, man. Thank you. It's my pleasure, man, to have you here. You know, I've wanted you to do this for a long time and so, uh, the stars align.

So, let's do something great here today. Um, I hope my billing of you was accurate because you Gerard has a lot, you know, the very few people you would meet with the success that Gerard's had so young who has kept such a humble spirit about them too and such a generous giving person. So, but I think some of that having got to know you a little bit has to do with your upbringing. I always like to take people back just a little bit. And so, you grew up a little bit like I did in the middle, right?

In the middle class, but tell everybody, you know, just a little bit about young Gerard, even though I still think you're young, but young young Gerard. How did you grow up? Tell us about your background. Well, um, you know, I I really had an unbelievable upbringing cuz I had a really strong, really strong, really strong, you know, group of parents. Like my mother, you know, she just really showed me a love and compassion and empathy and like the things that, you know, a lot of people I feel like don't have that's worth more than anything in the world.

And my father was the just a strong man, you know. He he really instilled the leadership in a very young age. What he would used to do is used to re write notes and leave them for me hidden throughout my house. So if I went to go get a glass of milk, there's a freaking little ripped up note in there. If I went to bed, there's something under when I pull the blanket up. If I wanted to go to school, he's dropping something in a freaking notebook for me or something.

And there were these, you know, just quotes from whether it was John F. Kennedy, Marcus Aurelius, you know, just different leaders. And for me, you don't really understand it when you're really young. You're kind of like, "Oh, this is kind of cool again." But I really started to appreciate it as I started to get older. So, I grew up with unbelievable parents. Um, hardworking. hardworking. hardworking. Um, they really instilled the the work ethic for me. But I walked to school, I took the bus, I loved BMX, I was a skater.

And, you know, for me, I was just a very creative person. Even young. Even young. Even young. Yeah. Yeah, I had a charisma even when I was young. I I I used to make my own clothes. I used to I love I begged my parents for one thing only. Put me into art school. art school. art school. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. I wanted to go to art school. Were you a only child? No, I have two unbelievable sisters. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, Yeah. So, Yeah.

So, did he do the same thing for them? Was he writing them notes, too? Or was that something he did just with his son? You know what's funny? I've actually never asked them. Yeah. Be interesting to know, wouldn't it? it? it? Were you the only one getting these notes? notes? notes? You know, it was just, you know, they they were he was very protective of my sisters. Okay. You know what I mean? And he just, you know, they were way more educated and and and of course he nurtured he nurtured them.

With me it was a little more tough love for sure. And your mom, by the way, I just get this feeling your mom's a major influence just because of how hard she worked. And I watched earlier when you talked about your mom. There's certainly something very special there with you and your mom too, right? What' you learn from mom? from mom? from mom? Well, um, you know, on both sides of my family, I'm extremely grateful of my heritage. Um, heritage. Um, heritage. Um, which is what by the way people I know you get asked this all the time, right?

Well, I'm so Colombian and Italian, but you know my mother's side. I just I'm going to stay like 30 days ago. I went and visited my grandfather. He turned 99 years old. years old. years old. And I, you know, I said it to myself. I wrote it down. I was like, my my grandfather is turning 99 this year. I don't care what I'm doing. I don't care what interview. I don't care what who wants to pay me for anything. What business, you know, opportunity there is.

I am going to see my grandfather to help celebrate his 99 and ask him these questions about immigrating to this country and you know I'm second generation and I just feel like you know my mom's my mom's my mom's you know parents my grandparents they came here you know with that typical immigrant story with nothing my grandfather came here first then he sent back for my grandmother and my mother my mother was born in Colombia and she came here so I think the that work ethic and that you know and just the appreciation for for being here and like and making and building a life is instilled in my mom.

And then um so I'm really I really think about that and that's what really drives me. But it was the moment that I saw my mom working seven days a week in a supermarket a supermarket a supermarket and um that was my first job. You know, I wanted to work. I wanted, you know, my parents weren't like they didn't give me things like I had to earn it. So my first job, believe it or not, was like working at the supermarket where my mom worked. She was an employee [clears throat] there.

And um I never forget getting that first paycheck and it was like maybe $300. I looked at that paycheck paycheck paycheck and I remember just seeing my mom working there and I'm just like wow like there's no way like I got to get my mom out of this like this isn't real money. Like how you know and and at that moment I started to really feel and think about that I'm so proud of them. I'm so proud of what they've done. they've done. they've done. You watch your mom work.

You see this struggle that she's gone through. you go away to college, which I I'm sure was like a major priority for your dad and your mom, especially for you to go, right? right? right? But you didn't last in college. And so I want people that are listening to this because a lot of millennials are going to watch this because you're here. They're in my audience as well. What happened with you in college? Well, this is uh this is really interesting. I really didn't want to go to college.

I was a bad kid right before graduating high school. In fact, I lost touch with a lot of my, you know, my good friends that I had grown up with earlier. I started hustling weed when I was in high school and I almost had a moment that really set me back and um I'll never forget the day my father caught me scaling in my bedroom and typically you know my I was old my dad my my dad's a little bit more old school Italian so like growing up if I did something wrong like he kind of like I got the belt like my dad like pushed me around it wasn't like I know what you mean you know what I mean and um I had a moment where I got pulled over and I thought that moment I was about to get arrested and it was going to completely to completely to completely ruin, you know, my the respect that my father would have for me and just for my community.

community. community. And um that story I've talked about, but someone who's committing Grand Theft Auto in front of me and when I was doing this drop off, they end up figuring that out, letting that person go and saying, "Hey kid, all right, get out of here." And when I had drove off that day, that was the day that was like, "Okay, I'm going to college." Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. like I got to take this Okay. like I got to take this muscle mentality and I got to learn about business.

Like I cannot be someone who ends up lifealtering moment. lifealtering moment. lifealtering moment. That was a lifealtering moment for me. But I ended up crying during graduation because my father wanted me to get into a good college. He wanted me to go to Princeton and I I went to I got into barely a community college. college. college. So I remember just completely freaking distraught being like Were you crying [clears throat] because you thought you let your dad down? Actually, no. I was actually really more about the fact that like the people that I had been friends with, they were they were going to these great schools and I was alone going to this community college and I was like [ __ ] like I'm such a disappointment to to like myself like like like and um but going to college that first semester semester semester I instantly was like this just isn't for me.

me. me. You just knew. I think it was part of the I just knew. I think it was part of the reason why I hustled like I just always was this creative. I wanted to be outside the box. I didn't want to be, you know, I I wanted to break the rules. I was That's that art thing in you, huh? The art thing in me, very creative to this day. And, you know, being in school, I was like, this isn't for me. Yeah. I went to college and it's one of the things that I, you know, there's more and more people I interviewed, but that wasn't their thing.

And I think the consciousness about that is changing, too. Cuz when I was in college, one of the things that I observed, too, is like it just sort of brings out these cookie cutter people, the business school, you know, you kind and and it it sort of squashes from people their ambition, their creativity. I'm not knocking college at all. I have a degree at all. And I'm producing if I would sell them. It's a great debate in my family. My wife's like, "They don't need to go to college." I go, "Absolutely, they're going to college." Well, they're going to be entrepreneurs anyway.

It'll give them experience and it's an achievement. It it shows work and finishing an idea. Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. I'm so excited about today's show because this is somebody that I admired from a distance for shoot a couple decades now at a minimum. And uh to put it bluntly, he is the most successful man in the history of his craft. He's the most successful man in the history of sports radio and he's done a whole lot more than that when it comes to television as well.

Right now the Jim Rome show is hosted on the CBS Sports Radio Network. It's Simocast over to the CBS Sports Network. He also makes appearances on CBS for the NFL and he's had a storied career in an area in an arena that I'm very very fond of and it's great to have him with me here today. So Jim, thanks for being here. That is so good to see you. Well, that is some kind of view my man. That lives up to all the hype. That is a beautiful beautiful scene.

Well done. Very blessed for sure. And so have you been by the way. I'm curious as we start because you know most of my audience knows you for sure and um I've admired you for so long and one of the things I admire about you is your humility for how successful you've become. But today I want to give you permission to be you can brag a little bit when it comes to the truth about your career. So I want to ask you how did you get started?

Because I know that you went to University of Santa Barbara because we were both in the Big West Conference. But did you know way before you even got to Santa Barbara that this is what you wanted to do? You know, I would say this my my only advantage I think that I really had was I did know exactly what I wanted to do at an early age. You know, unlike you, I mean, I had professional athletic aspirations, but I did figure out early on this was not going to happen for me.

You have to understand, I grew up in Los Angeles at a very different time when there was no internet, there was no cable, but I was obsessed with sports, man. I loved it. I had my childhood heroes and I couldn't get enough. I mean, if my old man was not saying to me, "Get your ass out of the house. It's beautiful day." I would have watched sports all day long and read sports. But I did realize at a pretty early age that I could not hit a curveball.

I was not blessed with this great size and ability. So, how do I stay in sports? And I just kind of got it in my head. Maybe I could be on the radio. Maybe if I got really lucky, I could be on TV. So, I knew at an early age. And what that did for me, Ed, was I knew that the second I got to UC Santa Barbara, I checked into the dorm and I went right to the radio station and I never left. And I just kind of locked in.

So my one advantage was I knew when you're not supposed to know. Who knows when they enter college what they want to do. Did you know? Well, you want to be a pro baseball and it didn't work, right? Yeah. You ended up doing what you want to do. But but I think it's and like my son just started college. It's okay not to know when you start college, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I knew and I was willing to lock in and start paying the price.

So yes, I knew. knew. knew. That's awesome. You So you get started. I was a radio TV broadcast major. I was a communication major. And one of the things that I I tell all entrepreneurs is I think especially in this day and age with the internet technology, everybody wants stuff to happen right now, right? Like, hey man, I'm gonna give this a shot for six months. I'm going to make a run at this, you know, until it hurts a little bit. One of the things I admired about you because you chose a craft that it does not happen quickly in.

So, what about like staying power? You get going, you leave Santa Barbara. It's not like the next year you're, you know, in San Diego, you know, becoming the gym Rome that we know now. now. now. No. No. There's like there's lots of layers to that. That's a really interesting question. You know, like Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan till they get punched in the face. Everybody's like, I'm going to do this. Like when I was in Santa Barbara, we all thought we would go right to the top because you're in college and you're naive.

You don't know how the world works just yet. So, we all believe that until you actually get into it. And then all of a sudden, you see what's going on around you. So, when I was a young person in the business, I would apply myself. But then I see my other friends who are not in the business and they're going to law school or they got into marketing or they got into sales or they went to Wall Street and they're killing it. And all of a sudden now I'm still grinding in market 174, which is Santa Barbara and I'm not making much money and all my buddies are just thriving and they're killing it.

It's at that point that people start to say, "It's a dream. It's a pipe dream. It's not meant to be. It's not for me. I'm going to give in." And then people give in. So I would say, "This is a great story. I I knew not to give in, but you know what? I did. I was one of the guys that gave in. So, here's what happened. When I was in college, I had seven internships in three and a half years because I was obsessed, man.

I was like, I was terrified of falling behind. And I was so committed, but then I had one bad experience. I got punched in the face once and did not react well to it. I'd worked for a radio station in Santa Barbara for free for 9 months. Wow. A paid position opened up. The news director says to me, "You're the guy. You've earned it. It's your time. I'm just You cut a demo tape. We play it for the owner and then you're in. The owner hears it.

He hates it. He goes, "I'm not hiring that guy." And I'm like, "Wow." But I had a fallback plan. My parents owned a business. So I go to my old man cuz I have visions of there's the BMW. There's the house. There's the presidency. So I go to my tough old man from Boston. I'm like, "Hey dad, listen. I want to go to work for you." He goes, "No, no." I'm like, "Dad, every old man wants their son to follow in their footsteps." So legacy. He's like, "Not this one." And I'm looking at him like, "What?" And he says to me, "You've never once displayed any interest in the family company.

You don't come to me now, right now, and say you want to." No. He said, "No." I'm like, "Yeah." I'm like, "What do I do? I want to control my own fate, my own destiny, and then radio's not fair. Life's not fair." So, I talked him into it. I wore him down. I I because I always had this kind of drive and passion. I wore him down. I worked on him for six months. Of course, it was the wrong thing for the wrong reason. He fired me.

Mhm. And then, you know, to make this super long story short, I've never heard this before. It's unbelievable. So, he and and keep in mind, I grew up at a at a dinner table every night where my parents owned a small business. They were manufacturers and they manufactured high-tech garments and they had a factory in Chadzsworth. And I heard every day at dinner, business is business, business is business. You take care of the business, the business will take care of you. So, about 6 months in, he fires me nicely, but business is business.

He said, "What are you going to do now?" I said, "I'm going to go get a sales job." He looks at me like I'm crazy. He's like, "You suck at sales. I just fired you." I'm like, "No, I suck at selling your product. I will sell something else." I got a job working at Harris Laneir selling dictation equipment. equipment. equipment. Oh my god. And and because when I went to a head hunter, they said, "We're going to send you out and here's the best one. Here's the one that everybody wants.

I can always sell me, but nothing else." So I got the job. I stayed there 38 days. I quit. They're furious. And then I'm selling phone equipment and it's going terrible, man. I'm getting my face beat in. And finally, in a fit of just like I'm near tears, I call my old boss where I had an internship in Santa Barbara and I said, "My life," he's like, "Hey, Rome, what's going on?" I'm like, "Nothing good. Nothing good." He's like, "What? I lay out my whole sales life.

I'm a failure. I'm worth nothing. Do you have any radio work in Santa Barbara?" He said, "I got one thing. 30 hours, vacation relief, traffic reports, $5 an hour. Do you want it? I said, "Yes." Yes. And I tell my old man, he's like, "How you going to live?" I said, "I have no idea, but my life is going right down the gutter. I got to get back up there." And so I committed to this $5 an hour, 30 hours a week for one month, no benefits because a kid was on vacation for Christmas.

And I said, "I'll figure it out when I get up there. I just know that I'm not good at sales." Wow, brother. I've brother. I've brother. I've I don't even know where that question started. Sorry about that. No, no, no. I knew your whole story and I did not know that part of it. Like that's a huge thing. Like I'm so grateful you said this because a lot of entrepreneurial types listen to this, right? And probably in your life, you know, you've pursued the business side and maybe a lot of you listening to this right now, you've gone back to some goofy plan B that you know you don't belong at.

You know it's not your calling. You know you're not great at it. It's like this place you're kind of hiding because this other thing is so painful. And it's really cool to know that. I mean, and you're humble about it, but someone who becomes the best of all time at what they do. This man's in the radio hall of fame, guys. I mean, legitimately, three decades plus on the air. I mean, the staying power has been unreal. To know that you went through this little stage where you were a little bit lost is nuts to me.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. No, no. What I was going to say, the thing that I admire about you is that post that it seems to me you made this decision like, okay, I went and played with this stuff I'm not any good at. And then there's becomes this part of you, I love what you talk about this, you're like, "This is what I'm going to do now. I'm going to figure this [ __ ] out." And it's like a burn the boats type thing for you.

You've almost got this theory about success that it doesn't always go to the necessarily the most talented person with the most gifted person, but it goes to the who. No. And I've seen you talk about this as well that it's not always the talent, but it's the grind and it's the effort and it's the dedication. And I think that's where the separation is. And by the way, if you know that you're not the most talented guy and you know that you're not the most brilliant person, what are you going to do?

Like here's the one thing the the one thing that I had aside from I knew what I wanted to do at a pretty early age. I knew the price that I was willing to negotiate with myself to get that done. Like that's the other sidebar. When I was in UC Santa Barbara, I thought nothing of getting up at 4:30 in the morning to go work an internship for free when the other kids were saying, "Dude, I'm not going to make that 8:00 class." And I'm not saying I'm a hero for doing that.

In fact, I'm kind of a loser for doing it because I was terrified of falling behind. I was afraid that somebody else would get that gig if I didn't do it. But because I knew what I wanted to do and because I negotiated that price with myself at an early age, I it was nothing for me. In fact, it felt good, man. I've heard you talk about this, like the dopamine that goes off in your head. It was a drug. It was an adrenaline thing. It was natural.

I felt good. I was getting up early, going to work, getting the line on the resume. So, I felt good. But at the same time, to your point, the reason I I I was self-aware. And that the one other advantage I had did this I did this math when I got to UCSB, I thought to myself, why you? why you? why you? Why you? You were not a professional athlete. You don't have an amazing look. You don't have an amazing voice. Yet you want to be on the radio.

Yet you want to be on TV. Exactly. What do you have to bring to it? Why you? And I couldn't answer the question at first. And I thought, man, if I don't come up with that answer, I'm not going to make it. So why you? Why you? Why you? And what I finally came down to was this. It's going to be me because I'm gonna come at it differently it differently it differently with a different slant. Rather than being the the answer man on the radio, I'm going to come at it with a declarative slant, a point of view, a take.

Have a take. Don't suck. And then the other thing that I was going to bring to it, if I wasn't smarter and I wasn't better, wasn't better, wasn't better, I damn well were going to want I was going to want it worse than anybody else. else. else. I was not going to give in. I was not going to give in. And I had learned my lesson by going into business and sales. Luckily, I got my face beat in. So now I knew what it took. I'm like, "This time you don't punk out.

You lock in. No matter. It's not up to you to know how long it's going to take. You just put your head down and you go to war until you find out. I freaking love that thing. I freaking love it. And that's what you're that's what people that I know that know you. That's what you're known for. This dude has a psycho work ethic. He's ferocious. And I'm curious about the mechanism that drives you. Like that's loaded with stuff there for all of you trying to do something great.

I want I'm curious. You said something like almost like fear-based like, "Hey, I might miss this or it may get past me or I'm" That self-awareness piece is monster. You and I both, most of the most successful people we know are very self-aware. They know what they're good at. They know what they're not good at. That's it. That's it. That's it. You agree with that? Yes, I do. Yeah. I I like immediately in meeting you, too. It's like this this is one of your great gifts.

And I think it also gives you an element of humility, too. Like, I know what I'm not good at, so I'm going to have to outwork somebody. But I'm curious what's made you to this day, and I don't know the answer. I'm curious. Do you have this little thing where you're afraid it may leave you? Is that a driving mechanism for you or is it always what you're trying to create? Which which one moves you? It really is both those things. And I think one drives the other.

And and understand this. I don't Yeah. I have this fear that they're going to come to me one day. Hey, listen. If they came to me today, if I walked outside your door and somebody came to me and said, "Yo, old man, you've had a pretty good run. We really don't care. The last thing this world needs is a 50something smack talker, man, to hit the bricks, a-hole." that that I far exceeded anything that I ever thought that I would do and it was a great run.

However, I don't want it to end and not for the reasons you may think. Like I'm not one of those guys like I got to be on the radio. I got to be on TV. I got It's not about that ego. It's about the process. It's about wanting to be relevant. It's about me still wanting to be competitive. It's about me wanting to have another act. It's about me wanting to reinvent. It's about me wanting to have people look at me and my brand and say, "Damn, man.

That guy's not looking for an off-ramp. That guy's not going away. that I still care what that guy thinks because one day it will be over and it will be a great run, but man, I feel good and I'm still really motivated by the puzzle. Like the whole world has changed. It's not the way it was when I got in or when you were getting in. So now it's up to me intellectually to figure it out again. And I want to be able to say, "Hey man, I I did not give in and the world changed and I changed with it and I'm still relevant." That's important to me.

That still gets me out of bed. Like literally right now as much as when you're that guy that got the $ five dollar paid 30-day deal. Like you think you want it that bad still right now. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I and I I frequently I don't keep notes but I don't have to. I remember what my mindset was. It was a weird deal. You probably know this too. Like I could get into a flow state back then. Like I knew I knew I'd walk around campus and I could lose an hour at a time because I was just so into this.

This is what I need to do. This is what I want. And if you think about it hard enough and you're vivid enough with your imagery and how badly you want it, you lose time, don't you? You get into a flow state. flow state. flow state. You do. You do. You do. And I knew it. And so now I'm trying to think back. Well, think like any athlete, right? The guys always they want to get back in the flow state. So when they have their best game ever, what did they do?

They thought about what they did that morning. They thought about what music they listened to. They thought about their rituals. Y and I'm trying to think, man, do it again. again. again. Do it again. Do you have a big ritual you do? Would you have anything specific you do? You get up real early, don't you? Yeah. drink coffee. That's my ritual. Yeah, I I get up early but not Yeah, I I get up early but not as early as I would like. And I fight that thing every single day.

But but I try to be very ritualistic about it, man. Get up, get going, get to work, lock in. And you know, like anybody else, like any entrepreneur watching, get yourself to do the things that you do not want to do because that's also one of the separators between those who do and don't. Make yourself do the things you do not want to do and do them consistently. consistently. consistently. You guys see why I wanted them on? Yeah, you got because you know I think because a lot of us of us of us read the same things, think about the same things.

Like even before I got into this, I probably read a lot of the stuff that you read on the way up. I would read Zigg Ziggler, Augandino, Tom Hopkins, Hopkins, Hopkins, Dale Carnegie, you know, like and some of it resonated more than some of the other stuff, but but I read a lot of that stuff, too. I have this feeling, and you don't need to acknowledge it. I think that some of your brand is going to end up in this area. I think that here's what's rare about you.

What? And it is it's significantly different about you. One, you were born with some incredible giftedness to articulate thoughts. Let's be real. I mean, you're given a great voice. You were given the ability to think and process information through your mouth at the speed of thought. That's a very rare thing. But you seem to be I think a lot of people success leaves clues. I think there are a lot of people and you've met them too. I don't think they can explain to you why they're successful.

A lot of people have arrived to success because they're not self-aware. They can't explain to you the steps. you're very unique and that you do know what the things were that made you who you are and you can articulate them very well. I think you'd be shortch changing people by not doing more of this stuff. This is fun. Yeah. I mean, this is fun. I like this. I've always I've always I've always liked this and again, I don't I I think about these things. I think the reason I can articulate it is because I've thought about it long and hard because of what you're talking about.

I I really I'm not being cute when I say this. I I really think that I'm I'm pretty average in most things. So, I wanted to figure out where I could be above average or way above average. And the only thing I kept coming back to was have a very different approach to the format as it exists. And if you're lucky, people will like it. And then control what you can control. And that's your attitude and your energy and your grit and your ability to deal with adversity and bounce back.

Yeah. And you you do something else. I've seen guys that outwork everybody the first year or two or the third or fourth year and then there's this point where like they're bought. We all know these. They just get bought with their success. Their price tag gets met and then all of a sudden they don't show up like they used to. They don't they don't innovate. They don't evolve. They don't think through. For most people, what makes you special, why I was so attracted to you is it's 30 plus years and you're still trying to get better.

You're still fighting for these inches. That's the separator. It's like that's what that's what separates to me someone like a LeBron in his 17th year from somebody else. Don't you 100%. I was just going to say to you that you will you will recognize this. It is exactly like LeBron. It's exactly like your guy Tom Brady. Explain to me how people who've had that much success that have paid that kind of price that have all the shiny things and the view of the ocean, why are they still working as hard as they are?

Because you know what? It wasn't about the shiny things. It wasn't necessarily about that money, man. It was about the right stuff. Who in their right mind is still getting up at 3:30 in the morning when they've got money that they can't get to and their kids can't get to and they can't get to because they still want it so badly. We're This is what I'm saying. This is why I watch you and we talk to similar people. How do you bottle this stuff? How do we get this stuff?

And and I give it to our kids. How do Right. Right. Right. How do you do that? And by the way, that's a whole sidebar, but when you have this, your kids aren't coming up the way you came up. came up. came up. That's right. That your kid never went to a public shower in a swimming pool, right? You know, because this old man busted his ass. Exactly. So, so how do you put that in your kid? And by the way, if they don't want it as badly as that's fine.

That's okay. However, just know the whole world isn't this. It's tough out there. there. there. I do think one of the ways you do it, by the way, I have a dad from Boston, too. Really? I was born in Boston and my dad and mom were born in Boston. Yeah. And my mom and my dad and mom are Boston too. But one of the things I've tried to do and and you have the same situation. Your children have grown up completely different than you grew up, right?

But one of the things I think is a key to that is that they have seen their old man still after it. In other words, they've linked it to the work. So many kids that get to this another thing that have success if you have children, you know, your children may be later in life than your effort was paid, your price was paid. My kids have still seed me paying the price even after the the money part. Don't you think? And same with yours. Like I bet if I asked your your kids, they'd be like, "Hey, one thing about my dad, he's a horse.

This dude gets up and goes all the time." They've linked what they see you doing to the work as opposed to maybe someone who inherited or something. You you'll get this. Like my son Jake, so now he's a freshman at the University of Madison, Wisconsin or Wisconsin Madison. And what I do on Fridays, we have a little ritual. I'll go in my backyard. It's it's probably like you Ed like how hard you work just to get the five feet over there. Right. It's not easy. Right.

Right. And so you spent your whole life trying to get to those five feet, but I bet it's hard to get unless you already understand. I know I'm killing myself to get to that backyard and it doesn't happen very often. On Friday afternoon once I put in a long work week and I've done my workout, I'll go in the backyard and I'll pour myself, you know, adult beverage and I'll take a picture of it and I'll send it to my kid and I'll write, "Cheers, love you, son." And you know what he says to me?

Dad, now pops. Pops, you earn that. Enjoy that. Enjoy that. Enjoy that. I love that. And I'm like, man, that that is just so deep. Like it worked. He He got it. He got it before he left the house. Not Not I love you. I miss you. Send money. That may all come later on. The text always says, "You earned it. Enjoy that." that." that." I love that. Beautiful, man. That's beautiful. That's the key, man. That's one of the keys. One of the things you've done well that I've noticed.

So, you said something that is another line that I agree with. Line of thinking. I mean, I had a guy on here a few weeks ago named Mark Lori. He runs Walmart. He's had a couple big exits. Successful dude, by the way, just at the combine for 250 grand. He's a 43y old middle-aged white dude. For 250, he races Jerry Rice in the 40. How'd that go? He beat him. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. He beat, by the way, Jerry's taking care of himself. of himself.

of himself. And Jerry's in still in good shape. This isn't like running against some guy who's put on 30 pounds. He beat him. It's It's It's I guarantee you he didn't want some rich guy to beat him either. Yeah, I know. Like [clears throat] legit, he beat he ran a right around about five flat 40, which at that age is remarkable, right? Anyway, one of the things he said was I said, "Give me some advice for entrepreneurs." And he said, "Find something that already exists and just do it better.

Quit trying to make up some brilliant thing." And what you've done on your show, I want to I want you to talk about this for a minute. One of the separators for entrepreneurs for any business is culture. Your show with the Vine, the jungle, the clones, have a take, don't suck. The way you lead the group, the way you talk to them, there's a culture to the gym room experience. Did you consciously kind of create that whole deal? not consciously, but I think it was part and parcel of what I was doing that it was different and I didn't know how they would react to it.

Here's the funny thing that the real secret to the whole thing is I just did on the radio what I was doing with my buddies in college. We just talk [ __ ] I just love sports and that's just the way I saw the world. Literally, I did not sit around with a legal pad at night and just think of I'm going to just make up all these terms and just like call the Knicks the bricks because they can't shoot the ball. That really was the way I saw the world, you know?

And we would just talk [ __ ] I'm like, "Wow, this is amazing. They might pay me to come up with this as a format." Right? format." Right? format." Right? So, but luckily, again, understand the world that I came into when I got my first big break in 1990, not to date myself, that there was there were two sports talk radio stations in America, FAN in New York, and Extra Sports 690. In fact, when I started to apply for that station, which is a whole different story onto itself, they weren't even all sports.

They were like news talk, but they had the Chargers rights and there was a sports talk show in the afternoon. Were they the Mighty 690? Sure was. Mighty 690. Exactly. So there there was there was nothing. And when they did that, there certainly was not a format like that. You had a couple of gunners that would kind of come pretty hard. But I just came at it a whole different way with a vernacular and the way I was kind of going after athletes and doing tough interviews, but smart.

I wanted to make sure that I could always back up what I was saying. Like even if you didn't agree with it, it was well reasoned. I didn't just get on there and start running off the mouth. You're not a hot taker. You like really believe the things you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. You might not like me at all, but this is really who I am. Now, that said, that said, I think part of your thing might be like, I want to talk to this guy because I think there's more to this guy than that guy who's on the radio.

Of course, it's a show. Now, don't get me wrong. I mean, I mean, I mean what I say and I say what I mean, and I wouldn't walk any of this back except the stuff that I was factually wrong about. I This is who I am, but I don't go around talking smack 24 and it is a show. The one thing I did figure out, too, be different. Never give in. Always keep coming, but give them a show. That much I understood early in my life.

Make it a show. It's showbiz. Anything you regret you've done? I mean, sure. There. Yeah. I mean, sure. There. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I kind of regret calling Jim Ever Chris several times. I know he was. So, I I regret that I didn't understand that situation better. That's really interesting. So, so Jim Everett, people know a lot of people know me as the guy the quarterback attacked him. Understand this about this this incident. That was not a setup. That was not me. People think this really what happened was there's a whole backstory to it that I've told a few times, but this guy was coming on the show and it was kind of interesting how it got booked.

Okay. Like I didn't I didn't say go get this guy as a guest, but I always had a standing policy. Yes, you understand that. That's good. We have always had a standing policy, especially back in the day when I was really coming hard. really coming hard that if somebody and I can tell you lots of stories about athletes that had an issue and I said if you have an issue here I am come on the show and here I am come on the show and we'll discuss this and we'll be up let's put them all on the table man and so he wanted to be on the show and I'd been pretty critical of him and I said good that's fine but I didn't know how that came to be so I said to my booker did you call him and my booker said no he called us I said okay because that's what my policy does.

And then right before, like the night before, and I asked the question a few times. Now, you called him. He called us, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Jim, he called us right before my booker had missed me. I called him. I said, "All right, let's get on the phone and be sure that he knows. He knows." So, my producer, who is an extraordinarily successful guy by Mark named Mark Shapiro, he ran ESPN for years. He now is with uh William Morris, where I am right now. And he said, "Hey, listen.

You know Rome has called you Chris Ever. Yes, we know. He's He's talking to him. He's like, "Yes, I know." You know, he's gonna say it on the show because he would never not say to a guy's face what he said about him on the radio. Yes, I know. We know what show we're getting on, but this is not going to be the show. We really want to do this interview. There's a lot here. He's like, "I know. I'm aware." And then he came on and then I said it and then he goes, "I bet you don't do it again." And then I said it again.

So, one regret is I didn't need to say it again, you know? And and and I really honestly I didn't know he was that angry. It was live TV and I didn't play. It was live. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was a really bad day at work for me. Jim, good to have you on the show. show. show. Good to be here, Jim. Thank you. Check that. Chris Everett, good to have you on the show. You know what? You know, you've been calling me that for about the last five years.

years. years. About two years, actually. Chris, well, hey, you know, let me let me say one thing. In that game, how many sacks did I have that we came back and won? How many sacks did you have? How many game How many sacks? See, but this was back in 1989. So, you you may have even been Jim Ever back there. But somewhere along the way, Jim, you ceased being Jim and you became Chris. Chris. Chris. Well, let me tell you a little secret that you know, we're sitting here right now and if you guys want to take a station break, you can.

But if you call me Chris Ever to my face one more time, I already did it twice. You better you call one more time. We better take a station break. station break. station break. Well, it's a fivem minute segment or five segment show. We got a long way to go. go. go. We do. We do. We do. We got a long way to go. I'll get a couple segments out of you. It's good to be here with you though. Well, it's good to see you because you've been talking like this behind my back for a long time.

And now I said it right here. right here. right here. Right. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. Exactly. We got no problem. Well, I think I think that you you probably won't say it again. I bet I do. Okay, Okay, Okay, Chris. That was a really bad day at work. Was that a careerthreatening type day for you? for you? for you? You bet it was. You bet it was. And people people to this day say to me, "It made you. It made you." I kind of take exception to that.

I didn't want to be known for that. I did not want to be known for that. I own look I'm accountable. I had a bad day. That was that was my bad. I've apologized for that a million times. I always will. I did not handle that well. Period. Period. Period. The backstory is pretty interesting though, to be honest with you. I mean, he knew what he was getting into. The reason I asked, you know, I think I think Here's the thing, though. Somebody said to me, excuse me, somebody said I think he was coming for you.

I don't know that he was. I think that he got really upset and understandably so. I think in the moment it of course he got upset. got upset. got upset. And what's he You'll find this even more interesting. For years, I tried to do the interview after it happened. I'm like, let's get some closure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and not for the wrong reason. Now, people want to see it just to see it. it. it. Would you believe to this day we've never spoken. never spoken.

never spoken. Wow. Wow. Wow. I tried for years and years and years to do the interview. And he always said no. Wow. Wow. Wow. And I just stopped asking after about 10 years. years. years. Well, of course, after a decade of asking. Maybe he'll see this and agree to do it. Maybe. That would be awesome. Maybe I don't want to anymore. That's a big takeaway. The reason I asked you, I wasn't going to bring the incident up. I was going to see what you answered was that's the other thing I kind of want people to get another lesson through you is that that could have been a career altering day for you.

It certainly didn't it was scary, right? It certainly didn't make you. That's not true. What's made you is the prolific culture you've created and your relentless work ethic over time. That's what's made you. Your preparation, the way you interact with the athletes, your ability to articulate. However, it's a great lesson. It's a great lesson because I look at a guy like our mutual buddy. A-Rod's a good buddy. And I look at A-Rod, you know, three, four years ago, he was a pariah, right? Like nobody in the world would touch him and he's remade himself into this like he's the ESPN face of ESPN baseball.

He's he's revered again, right? And so why that's important is for everybody. A lot of us have this one mistake in our life. It could be a divorce, a bankruptcy, and we shame ourselves the rest of our life. Like, okay, I don't I can't win again cuz I made this one particular error in our career. You're proof of that. whether there was an error or not on air, it was one of the most shocking sports interview moments in the history of sports of sports of sports interview.

I don't want to give myself too much credit. It was one of the most shocking moments on TV ever in a long time ever. Ever. And I will tell you one more thing too. I don't know if you know this, but it's a little cheesy, but I think it is apppropo. The LA Times did a piece shortly thereafter and the title of the article was, "Is this the end of the Roman Empire?" Wow. Wow. Wow. I put it on my mirror. I looked at it every day for a year.

I saw it every morning when I shaved. I saw it every morning when I got out. like they're they're they're speculating that my career is over before it starts. And so it's one thing to pump yourself up with don't give in, don't quit. Yeah. Easy to say all that until adversity hits. hits. hits. Adversity hit. And you know, the world was different then. I mean, there was no social media then, which would have made it tougher. But I'll tell you what, there was there was Saturday Night Live, Katie Cork talking [ __ ] about me.

They they were killing me on Saturday Night Live. And so people like now say, "Yeah, well that's that's awesome." It's not awesome when you're in it and you think that maybe you're not getting contracts renewed and then all of a sudden when people don't know you, you're going to restaurants and everybody knows you and it's for the wrong reason because it was one bad night. And let let that be a lesson, you know, one one bad decision bad decision bad decision could impact the rest of your life.

Yeah. During those moments, um I'm curious about Janet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I've been married once and uh she's had my back through a bunch of different ups and downs. You talk about Janet on the show, but I think she's only been on the show like one time. One time. Yeah. We both are both also have this thing where we're real private with our families. We're not doing a lot of posts and pictures and things like that. I'm protective of that, too. But if you don't mind talking about it because I I just think it's she's been such an important part of your life.

How important has Janet been through moments like that in your career or are you just like do you do your thing and she does her thing? her thing? her thing? No, no, no. She's definitely right in the middle of that whole thing because we we met through the business. The funny thing about Janet, when I met Janet, she was way more successful at this business than I was. She was a vice president of the corporation that owned the mighty 690. Okay. Okay. Okay. Janet heard me and tried to fire me right away.

So Janet's a vice president of human resources. And the funny thing about because the corporate office was in San Diego where the station was, but they own several stations nationwide. They all had a vote at the conference table about programming. I always thought that was kind of weird that why is accounting voting on programming? Why is human resources voting on programming? because they could, I guess, and they did. Because I did this differently than anybody else had. They had never heard anything like that before. So Janick grows up in Long Beach.

She's a huge Dodger fan. And I get on the radio and I said, "Let me tell you about Fernando Valenuela, man. That old man will be on food stamps by the end of the week." And she was she literally was mortified. This is a churchgoing girl who grew up loving the Dodgers. And she she was mortified. She's like, "I don't know who the new guy is. I don't know where he came from. I'm moved that we fire him right now." really. So, I married her ultimately, you know, you know, you know, that's awesome.

that's awesome. that's awesome. But, but the the the moral of that story is she was doing way better than me, making a lot more money, way more successful, and she saw me before any of this happened. And so, we I kind of schooled her and my friends and family that when I came up and people who liked me loved me, and people who didn't like me hated my guts and said things that were not nice, in some cases horrible, and didn't know me. And the family and friends get really upset.

I'm like, listen, this is part of it. This is what we signed up for. So, you need to understand you cannot react to this. You can't fight everybody who says something. Yeah, but they don't know you. Well, you can't control that, right? right? right? So, she knows that. So, when when it hit the fan, the fan, the fan, she was there. She was fine. That's awesome, man. You've had a great partner all these years, which led you into I just want to talk about this for a little bit because I think it's a really weird part of your story.

Like somehow this sports guy was in all these other sports and I knew enough about you. You had no interest in horse business before. business before. business before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like all of a sudden you're like and by the way like anything you've done like you didn't just do it a little bit. I mean eventually you got into like you're pretty deep. Yeah. I was I was really deep and I I had no interest in that either. So no interest in that. So there's a guy named Billy Cotch and Billy Cotch actually was a college baseball player at Northwestern and a Beverly Hills kid and he was in this he had a racing syndicate.

So what he would do is he would go out and he'd find people and they'd invest and they'd buy pieces of a horse. And he saw me in Delmare and said, "Hey, yeah, yeah." And he knew me and he's like, "You're going to love this. You're going to love this." I'm like, "No, I won't. No, I won't. I have no interest. Why no interest. I have no interest. Why would I want to do that? I want to go to Delmare. I want to watch the races.

I'll put on a suit, have a few pops, and I'll do that once or twice a summer and I'm good." He's like, "No, no, you'll love it. You'll love it. Love it." I didn't want to do it. Janet says to me one night, "You know, you really should. We should do this." I said, "Do what?" She said, "Buy a horse." I'm like, "Why would I do that? You need a hobby. You need a hobby." We bought 10% of a horse. I go to Sanita. horses, Argentinian bred.

They bring him in, he runs. And I was naive. I thought, I'm a sports talk show host, man. I know everything. I didn't know that much about horse racing. I really didn't. Running styles, strategies. strategies. strategies. I buy 10% on the horse. The horse is running dead last. I'm like, I must be the biggest sucker ever. There must be like easy mark on my forehead. I'm like putting I'm trying to put a stop on the check in the middle of the race, [ __ ] The horse comes from dead last to win the race in the most exciting fashion ever.

And I've told this story. It's like somebody rolled up behind me and and injected me with ecquin crack. I look at this guy. I'm like, "Dude, you got anything else you can sell me? What else do you have for sale?" And I and I couldn't stop. It felt so amazing, you know? So then I'm all in and some of the best and worst days of my life have been at the track. track. track. But you went up to like 14 horses or something, right? And then you get to misdirection misdirection misdirection and you're talking about a horse that's like multiple victories at the Breeders Cup.

Cup. Cup. So So yeah. So the really short version is so Janet's like hey how much money have we lost by the way doing this? I'm like a lot. She's like maybe we should stop. I'm like you told me to get a hobby. She goes I didn't tell you to get one that expensive. Yeah. I said here's the thing one more time. There's this horse named Misdirection. She's like Jimmy stop. I'm like listen to me. This horse it's it's made and raced by nine and a half lengths.

We've never been anywhere near an animal like this. I want to take one more shot. more shot. more shot. She's like all right. So that was it. Misdirection literally saved my horse racing life because up until then that was the last shot and then I bought in. They made us the majority owner. We ran in our silks and she won two breeders cup races against the boys. Which was unbelievable. And to this day I've never experienced anything in business that felt like that first win that she had.

It was the most surreal moment of my life that did not involve the things that matter. So that was the high the lowest shared belief. Right. So the lowest shared belief. Yeah. Just tell them about that. So share belief was a so we sold misdirection at auction because we wanted to retire her, give her the right life. Share belief is a horse that we bought that we thought we'd have some fun with. He was a gilding, okay? So you cannot if they're gilded, they've got no residual value.

You cannot breed them. That's why he was for sale. And we bought the horse and the horse was unbelievable. We had no idea. He went from a horse that we thought we'd have fun with to the top ranked thoroughbred in the world. He was the number one ranked horse in the world. He beat California Chrome. He won the award for the two-year-old male of the year. He won the Pacific Classic in Delmare, which is the biggest race here, I think, the Sanita Handicap. I mean, an unbelievable athlete.

Unbelievable. And then he comes down with collic. I get this phone call one morning during my radio show from my race manager, Alex Solis, who says, "Jim, the big horse has collic." collic." collic." And I said, "Oh my god, how bad is that?" He goes, "They're rushing him to Davis Medical Center. He may not make it. Keep in mind the horse is four. Wow. Wow. Wow. You got the horses live to be in their 20s and he was like larger than life and the horse passed away, you know, and and I'm still not over it.

Like it's like anything in life, right? Really bad things happen. You hope to get beyond it, but some things you don't really ever get over. So that it's like also in sports, the lows are much more intense than the highs are high. Yeah. So, as good as it was that Misdirection won the Breeders Cup twice, the intensity of losing shared belief like that, I think will far outweigh everything. everything. everything. I can see on your face. Yeah. It's hard, man. Yeah. I I said to my I told the story, maybe you've seen the video I did, but I said to my 10-year-old at the time, Logan was at my office crying at my desk at work.

I had this whole thing, man, don't you ever cry at work. Don't cry. I don't care how bad your work day is. You You don't cry at work unless you get a phone call with some really bad news. You don't cry at work. And my 10-year-old goes, "Dad, I've never seen you cry." Wow. I said, "Because I don't very much, but man, I love that animal." Oh, man. I'm so sorry. I love that animal. You But the whole reason you did it, I want to get into like your mind a little bit.

So, or you I'm like, be real. I mean, I know you've been real, but like be real. be real. be real. You needed a hobby. That That sounds like something my wife would say. And one of the things that I've always struggled with, and I just want people that are like this, maybe you're this way, maybe you're not. I'm not, as much as I relate really well with people, I'm not like one of the guys. Do you know what I mean? No, I know exactly what you mean.

Like my um cuz I think this is a a model or a personality trait that I see in a lot of people that are successful that surprises people, but like my social circle is not as big as most people would think. Like as many people as you and I both know, like who I really spend time with. It's surprising. I'm shaking my head because I totally know exactly where you're going with that. Yeah. So, what is your what is that like for you? Like is your social circle really as big as most people would think?

Are you are like what are you like socially? And what's your kind of Are you Are you a dude who's like kind of playing grabbass with dudes all the time or are you typically more serious? No. No. I I've got like four guys. I got friends. I have associates, but I've got three or four dudes. Like I don't I used to be a big Bombay Sapphire guy. guy. guy. So we had a Bombay club because who drinks G? Only old men, old lawyers. And me me me until I didn't.

But I but I had a crew. I got some guys. And and I don't want the guys I'm not doing this in any order of importance, of importance, of importance, but my guys are guys like Rob Guthrie, Mike Trezel, Matt Coleman, you know, I just have a crew and and we used to be almost fanatical about once a quarter. No matter where we are, we drop everything and we go out and we hit it pretty hard responsibly. Y and you know, as you get older, it's tougher because everybody has lives and kids.

But no, I'm not I My job was my thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My career was my career and family. Career and family. family and career. Family and career. I didn't need all that other stuff. And if I had to blow off some steam, I'd blow off some steam and then get right back to the grind. So, when you say to me that you have a tight-knit circle of the people who matter most to you, that you want to hang out with, I understand that. that. that.

I really believe what you said. Like, I take to heart that I think you have some unbelievable gifts and talents, but I I know from being around you now. Like, this man's made it cuz he's a crazy competitor. He evolves. He works his ass off. and he flat out wants it probably more than most people, right? And I feel like I'm kind of in that boat in my own unique way, too. Like, I know I don't have a super high IQ, you know? I'm not six foot three.

I'm not super gifted in any particular area. Yeah, but Ed, you can bench the house, though. though. though. No, I can't bench the house. You know what I put? I had Michael Hearn on here. If you know who that is, that dude can bench the house. Like, but comparatively speaking. But I but I do like I really want to win. Like, I really want to be somebody. I connect with athletes. I Why do you think that is? Like what? Here here's the thing. I always always ask guys like this.

Nature or nurture? Are you wired for it or are you a product of your culture? Where does that come from? come from? come from? What do you think? For you? For you? For you? What do you think? For you? I I think Okay. For me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For me? For me? For me? This is the ultimate question of all questions right here. Because I have an upper middle class upbringing. Me too. Okay. I did not come up the Okay. I did not come up the hard way.

I lived in a gated neighborhood. neighborhood. neighborhood. Okay. I didn't quite go there, but same close. But close. But close. But I mean, I wasn't you, my parents were not wealthy, but they worked hard and they had a business and they did well, I'll be honest with you, me personally, cuz my even my old man, my dad, he he passed away when he was 59. He had leukemia. And this is amazing to me. Really, just sidebar really quickly, he was fine with it. Like it's a strange thing.

Like he, this Boston guy, he's diagnosed with cancer at 50 and he and my mother don't tell anybody. They don't tell anybody. tell anybody. tell anybody. Yes. Just just us though, my sister and I. And they say to us, "We're not telling anybody." I'm like, "Are what? You just tell me you have leukemia and you're not telling anybody." He didn't tell his mother. They didn't tell anybody in business. They're like, "This is how we're handling it. If you want to talk about it, we'll talk about it all day every day, but we're not talking about outside these doors." I thought that was unbelievable.

That is unbelievable. And then and then when it's it gets into his brain and it's terminal, he has brain surgery. He's fine. He's fine. He's at peace. He's like, "Man, I had an amazing life. I've got these incredible kids." He didn't. You know, he's like, "I had this. I never thought I'd be good in business. I am." Like, he was fine. He had this peace of mind. But we had this one talk. Back to your question. He's like, "You got to relax." I'm like, "What do you mean I got to relax?" He's like, "I don't know where you got your drive from.

You didn't get it from me." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, "I don't know, Dad. You've had a pretty good run." He's like, "You didn't get it from me." So, to answer your question, where'd it come from? I don't know, man. I I kind of had a chip on my shoulder. Maybe it was because I was a dorky kid. Maybe I don't know. But I wanted it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted it and I was able to feed it and tap into it. And I And you still do though.

That's the crazy part. You still do. Like I can feel you. Like I think you're as hungry like this minute after Hall of Fame, 30 years, millions of dollars in income, live a great life. I feel like you're game recognizes game. I think I'm kind of in the element. But but no, I mean I still it gets me up in the morning still yet. Yeah. yet. Yeah. yet. Yeah. And you got to answer your question now. Where where did yours come from? I think it's a great question.

I think it's probably similar to yours. My dad here's what I got from my dad. Maybe you did. I did model like a work ethic from my old man like and a decency from my parents that they're they treat people well. There's a like I think I picked up some of that. I hope like I but my dad never had ambition. My dad's told me many times I just wanted to work and provide for the family. I wanted a good life. Like what the hell happened to you?

My dad and I have this conversation all the time. and and it sort of shocks him. I don't even think they saw I think they knew they wanted me to be successful, but I'm not sure they thought whatever happened happened. I think that so what happened? I don't know. I think some of it was that I was an undersized athlete, stuff like that, too. But again, I think it's probably more nature cuz I'll just I four siblings grew up in my household. We're very different people.

Same stimulus, same family, same parents, and I'm different. I'm different. I'm different. I'm always fascinated by that. I am too. And but I think that the people that have that psycho streak, that have that I want to be somebody thing need to know that it's great. Like I my dad says that to me too. You need to chill. Like hey, when's enough enough? And hey, even this morning we're talking about some deal I'm doing. He's like, you know, put the pressure off yourself a little bit cuz I think as a parent you want them to be okay, right?

I don't know that that's maybe it's good that he dials me in once in a while that someone does that, but I wouldn't recommend that to somebody. Like if I'm not in pursuit of something, I'm miserable. I tried for like a half a year to like golf and sit on the beach and I just it's not what makes me happy. Yeah. But you enjoy this though, right? I do. I do. I do. I think it'd be a real mistake to hit it. And it took me a long time to figure this out and man, you have all these things you work so hard for, but you just keep grinding and grinding and grinding and then it got it got away.

It didn't take that minute. I'm not saying dial it down. I'm not saying downshift. I'm saying this is the best view I've ever seen. Hopefully, you get your ass out on that deck and you have you have some of that tequila once in a while. I mean, you have to do it, right? We both had a little before we started today. today. today. I didn't. Well, maybe a little. You had a sip, but I had a lot. I had a little bit. I do do that.

I think that's one of the things that maybe you're right. Maybe one of the things you're you're pointing out something out to me. Maybe maybe I need to show that side of me a little bit more that people go, I want to be like that. Like, I want to have some fun doing it, too. Or not even show. Just do it. Yeah. Do it. Just do it, man. Just do it. Like I'm not saying you don't ever ever compromise who you are and what you do because you're right.

What are you you're not going to be happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to be what are you going to do and not not get up in the morning and work out, not get up and go to work, to work, to work, right? right? right? You know, one day maybe