5 Simple Ways to Accelerate Fat Loss FAST! | Mind Pump 2764

Key Takeaway

Want faster fat loss for 2-3 weeks? Try calorie undulation - vary your daily calories instead of eating the same amount every day. Some days eat at maintenance or slight surplus (especially around hard workouts), other days create a larger deficit. This mirrors how humans naturally ate throughout history and prevents your metabolism from adapting to a set calorie intake while maintaining muscle mass.

Episode Overview

Sal and Adam discuss five evidence-based strategies to accelerate fat loss over a 2-3 week period. These are short-term tactics, not long-term approaches, best suited for people already lean or close to their goals. They emphasize that these strategies work best when you've already put in the foundational work of proper nutrition and training.

Full Transcript

Transcript of 5 Simple Ways to Accelerate Fat Loss FAST! | Mind Pump 2764 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

All All right, let's talk about fat loss. Everybody's interested in getting leaner, but did you know that over a twoweek period, maybe three, you can accelerate the process? Now, this isn't a long-term strategy, but you can make things happen much faster in a short period of time. There's actually five ways we have found that actually do this. We're going to talk about them today. today. today. Let's get into it. Let's talk about curious how you nailed this down to five right here. Yeah. Well, there's a few ways, right?

I these are the ways that I've used and I know we've talked about this off air. Uh these are strategies we've used with clients. clients. clients. Now is this is this uh based off of research or just our own personal experience what we've used as far as a little of both. It's hard to find research on on something like this. Uh a lot of this is based off of what you'll find um in particular competitors like body. body. body. Okay. I was going to say cuz I when I saw I looked at it and I was like, "Okay, these I totally agree with these, but I is I don't know if you found data to support what uh what you're about to say.

say. say. At best, the data suggests that this works." Now, the issue is it's not a long-term strategy. So, and and here's why bodybuilders would do some of these strategies is they're so lean that an acceleration of fat loss over two weeks with a bodybuilder is visible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The average person, you know, if you're trying to lose 50 pounds, it's not going to make that big of a difference. But if you're getting there and you're getting close to your goal, uh, and let's say you got something coming up or you want to see what you could do over a a concentrated, you know, 14-day period, maybe 21 day period, you can incorporate some of these things and you'll see uh fat loss accelerate.

You'll see it happen faster. happen faster. happen faster. Yeah, I think this is one of those where you've put all the work in and this is not substituting. No, no, no. This is this is the last kind of sharpening techniques. I I I I think there's something more there too with what you said about like relating this to somebody who maybe has to lose like 50 lbs versus maybe somebody who's closer to getting to their final goal. And because And because And because what tends to happen with someone has who has to lose, you know, a significant amount of body fat is they actually do too much of stuff like this too fast and it kind of shoots themsel in the foot.

And so this is not a a long-term strategy or or in particular all these is what I would recommend to somebody. Although some of them are strategies that I think I I I use even with that person and we when we get through them I'll explain uh like this is where I still would use this for somebody who's 50 for for example your your very first one I think is a a good strategy for kind of all people. I agree. I think this is just a a healthier better balance way of eating.

Yeah. So the so the first one is undulating your calories. So what we mean by that is you know typically when you talk about fat loss uh obviously you have to be in a caloric deficit meaning you have to take in less energy or less calories than your body's burning. If that doesn't happen you're not going to lose body fat. Okay? Now it's more complicated than that right because your body can deal with the deficit by pairing muscle down which we've talked about many many times.

It could cause you to become less active to make up the difference. But at the end of the day there has to be a deficit. Uh otherwise your body will not burn calories from itself. In other words, it won't get rid of body fat. So that has to happen. And so typically the standard approach is to have this kind of consistent deficit. And so what this would look like, and I'll just for argument sake, is let's say your body's burning uh 3,000 calories a day. Uh you're exercising, you got a good fast roaring metabolism.

So you're like, "Okay, I'm going to put myself at a 500 calorie deficit every day. Okay, so I'm going to eat 2500 calories every day. Right? Right? Right? That's one approach. That's the standard approach. But in my experience, uh, undulating calories has lots of different benefits. One of which being, in my experience, accelerated fat loss. And so what this tends to look like, and bodybuilders have done this for a long time, bodybuilders call this, you know, refeed days, uh, or higher carb days or whatever, where some days they're not at a deficit.

In fact, some days they might even be at a slight surplus, but other days the deficit's much larger than the 500. Ultimately, it averages out to about the same. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're looking at 3,500 calories of a deficit over a week, right, that'd be 500 a day. Instead of it being 500 every day, it one day might be zero. The next day might be a,000. The next day might be plus 200. The next day may be down 700. And so the calories are going up and down, but some days are real low calories, some days are higher.

And typically people will will will time the higher calories around workouts to fuel their their their training. Y training. Y training. Y uh now to what you're saying, Adam, I I like this as a long-term approach as well because it mirrors real life. It not only does it mirror real life, but I there has to be something and this is theory, right? because I don't have the proof on this, but it's like we we we do have an understanding of somewhat of an understanding around meta metabolic adaptation.

metabolic adaptation. metabolic adaptation. Yes. Yes. Yes. Where if you let's say someone just that let's use that 3,000 calorie person and let's say they just eat 2,000 calories every single day consistently for a long time. Eventually what ends up happening is the body gets metabolically adapted to that new calorie intake and then otherwise you would die and then the fat loss slows and then the fat loss slows or stops completely and so then you need to either uh you know either reverse diet or increase activity or whatever to create a larger deficit.

But nonetheless what we call that is it's not a broken metabolism. It's it's your metabolism is adapting to this new calorie intake. So based off of that that understanding, it makes sense that undulating it would slow that process down or keep that from happening as fast, right? I mean, agreed. agreed. agreed. So instead of it just being this 2500 calories every single day and then again, these are all very hypothetical numbers, you know, 5 weeks down the road, my body is now adapted to 2500 calories.

If I'm having some days where I'm at 3,000 and then 2,700 and then 2,000, this it it makes sense to me that it would be uh your body is less likely to adapt to a a a set amount because you're having this fluctuation so much. Agreed. And that's exactly that's the theory and that's how in my experience it feels. it feels. it feels. Yeah. Because one of the ways your body so you said metabolic adaptation that's that's a a phrase that encompasses an incredibly complex thing that happens.

So you know your body burns less calories. Cool. How is it doing that? Oh boy. There's a lot of things that happen there. Compare muscle down. Uh your body becomes less or more efficient with how it utilizes calories. It'll it'll influence you to move less in ways you might not even perceive. They've done studies where they'll drop calories and they just see people moving less like they're they're shaking their leg less or they take a few less steps or they sit a little more. Uh it can influence your hunger to try to make up the difference.

There's all these things that have hormones can get affected. But what what I think tends to happen when you have a real low calorie and then you eat, you have a refeed, you feel that energy, uh you feel that strength, you move more, you maybe your intensity goes up, your hormones aren't as affected. And I don't think your body is as afraid of the lower calorie because it just got higher calories. And it to to me this makes sense because it not only mirrors real life, this mirrors how humans have probably always eaten.

I guarantee you it was a lot harder to get food back in the day. the day. the day. And when we did, we made it. And we and we most certainly weren't weighing and measuring it out to the exact calorie amount. you make a kill and you have to eat it then, you know, and so you'd you'd feast and then there'd be bits of famine in between, but you'd always like you'd have like intermittent bouts of big amounts of calories. Totally. And then and then to to elaborate on your point of what mirrors real lifestyle, and I've just found this is that there's certain days where you're less hungry and you're more hungry.

That's right. Example of that for me is like, man, I I just this is happening the other day and Katrina was like teasing me. She's like, oh my god, you're eating again. You're so hungry. I'm like, man, I I trained legs hard the day before and whenever I have like a good heavy leg session day the day before, before, before, man, the next day I just feel like fuel up. up. up. Yeah. And it just again makes logical sense to me. I just I just had trained them really hard.

There's a lot of recovery process. They're big muscles. There's probably a lot of demand. My body is naturally going, "We need more calories." And I allow it. All right, let's feed. You know what I'm saying? And then then the next day, for example, after that was what I would have called either an off day or a very low intensity day. came in and touched up arms bison and tries real light wasn't the appetite wasn't there and so it's just like hey I don't my body doesn't feel like it needs a ton a bunch more calories so it's was a more moderate to lower calorie day so I really find that you know in in even when I undulate I don't even go planned undelate I don't go oh this day I'm going to do 3,000 because I think sometimes when we talk about this people go like okay well then I'll I'll make this day 2900 and I'll make this day 2100 and I'll make this cuz the guys say that's the way to go.

It's like honestly like if you just you say it out. Yeah. Feel it out and go, you know, or days like when you know you're just not moving a lot. So like on a weekend where you know, especially now coming to the holidays, it was raining. There was couple times where Max and I were just building Legos and watching watching cartoons and stuff. It was like, man, that I didn't move very much that day. That was a really low calorie day for me cuz my body wasn't expending a lot.

Instead of like saying that, oh, this was supposed to be my 2900 calorie day. It's like just allow that natural undilation. I think the biggest thing though to always remember or that I that I find I still have to focus on when you undilate like that is obviously on those lower calorie days it becomes significantly more difficult the protein. So there has to be protein should be consistent, right? right? right? There there needs to be a really strong emphasis on still go after that protein, but maybe I choose lower calorie foods or maybe I'm on the lower end of my protein, but not but still getting what my body needs versus the days where I'm higher.

higher. higher. I'm glad you said that cuz uh protein doesn't really get stored. That's right. So that's Yeah, good point. Uh next up, go real low carb. uh real low carb um in in many cases seems to accelerate fat loss. You definitely lose more water and it does tend to blunt appetite in many people. So typically will make up the low carb with some more fat intake. Uh it's short-lived. Uh but again, this is a bodybuilder trick. Uh you could, you know, you could literally do two weeks of under 50 grams of carbs.

I don't think it's a good idea to go that low all the time except for certain circumstances where maybe these are medical uh situation or gut health. Sometimes this will help people. But just for pure fat loss, uh I do like a week or two of this and then go back to normal. And you could do this intermittently. You know, you could do this every 3 or 4 months. You have like a one week of very very low carbohydrates. Uh now, why does this accelerate fat loss?

It tends to drop calories. It tends to really drop calories. uh your appetite tends to go down when you're eating uh just fats and proteins. And so this again, this is an old school tip. Uh but I found this to be just a really fast way uh to kind of accelerate the definition at the very least that you'll see in the mirror. We also have a new program, maps 15 symmetry. So it's the maps 15 program, but it's based off of the maps symmetry program. So this is for balancing the body right to left aesthetics, correcting imbalances.

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That's it. enjoy the rest of the show. I I love sharing about this because I I I played a lot around with like different types of carb cycling and and uh when I was competing and so and I and there's there's no like real wrong or right way. You just gave an example of running it for a couple weeks. um their traditional bodybuilders will run a low, medium, high day, and that's and they'll cycle that way. I found I would just stay low carb for two, three, sometimes four days, and then refeed.

And again, going off of how I felt, like I would like I'd really try and keep it low carb for a few good days in a row, at least two to three days in a row, if not four or five sometimes. And then when I felt like my body was really needing more calories, then I give it that kind of high carb day and then I go right back to that. A lot of people I think that want to try this uh over complicate it like well how many grams should my carbs be in this and and bodybuilding can take it to that that that level where they're very very like if you asked our our buddy Johnny who's always you know getting ready for a show, he's probably got it down to I do 50 gram of carbs on this day, then I do 75 on this day and he's got it to a number.

number. number. Yeah. Yeah. So, he's got it to a number like that. I was just like, "Okay, I'm going to try and stay at like 50 g of carbs or lower for like 3 4 days in a row." And then on that that the next next time I was re I would refeed and and eat a lot of carbohydrates and let myself come all the way back up to a maintenance or even maybe a surplus. And that just worked really really well for me. And it wasn't I didn't have to get so granular where I was like, "Oh, I I can only have this much on each day to where you're trying to calculate each food." food is just like, "No, I'm going to stay low carb for a good three days in a row and then day four I'm going to give myself a high carb day and cycle like that." And then again, it naturally brings those calories down and so the average of the week ends up being lower.

Found worked really really well. Oh yeah, I love it for the performance benefits and I try to keep um low carb as as long as as possible and then you go to refeed and it's like turbocharging especially on the super intense days that you have kind of planned and scheduled out. So the majority of the time I'm trying to kind of stay very low, you know, and then intermittently kind of bring it in and then base it off of that like intensity factor. Yeah. I for me I know what it feels like to be in ketosis.

So I'll go low carb and then I'll feel myself in ketosis. Then I'll stay there for a couple days and I'll refeed. Yeah. And just kind of play like that. Uh next up, uh you could drop your calories really low for a short period of time and studies will show that it minimal muscle loss will happen, but this is short. Okay, so this is like one week or less. Yeah, usually a few days. So if your target calories are 2500, you know, you go a,000, you can go 1,000 calories for 3 4 days and then go right back to where you were before.

In fact, I suggest the next day when you're coming off to go higher than you normally would and then go back to your normal calories and you'll get a little bump uh an acceleration in fat loss. Um this I I will say this one caveat is if your calories are really low anyway, don't do this. this. this. You know, if if you're a young if you're a woman listening to this and you're at 1300 calories, like don't do this. Well, I would add another caveat to that which is that if you are also somebody who already struggles with hitting protein intake, this makes it exponentially more difficult.

you're you're not going to get your protein for most people depending on your size. You're not going to get 1,000 calories. Uh you're not going to get enough protein through 1,000 calories. So, if you're already somebody who has a hard time hitting protein and then you now you stretch 2, three, four days or more in a row of thousand calorie days of extremely low protein, now you're just setting yourself up for Yeah, you might lose some weight, but you're probably also going to pair down some muscle during that process.

So this to me like this this is I like where you're at in your diet. I could I feel like if I was training you nutritionally I could do this to you. Yeah. My calories are so high. You're so high in calories. You eat a lot of protein consistently. So 3 days of thousand calories. You would do nothing. Like you're you're not going to pair down a bunch of muscle. You're just going to see the leaning out benefits of it. Be difficult food wise. But you are somebody who would be an example of a client that I could do that with.

Most people because they struggle with getting enough or the point you made are already pretty low calorie. They hear that and they go, "Okay, I'll just cut down." Yeah. Not a good idea. Uh next up, uh 48 hour fast. Uh so again, you want to be in a healthy place to do this. Now the 48 hour fast, here's why this accelerates fat loss. Okay? Yes, you're not taking in calories for two days. That's part of it, but really it resets a lot of your cravings. It resets your uh connections to food, your gut, your gut, your gut, your gut health, your inflammation goes down.

I don't think it's a good idea to work out on this. This is not a 48 hour fast plus workout. That's a bad idea. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it's 48 hour fast and chill. Uh but this for many people in particular, people who are afraid to skip meals, you know who you are. You're like, I got to eat every three hours. I can't miss this. I can't miss that. You know, uh this can do work wonders for helping you kind of break some chains uh to the kinds of foods that you're you're eating.

Here's a good example of it. You know, this this this is the kind of person that I'm talking to with this. If you're that person where noon comes around, you're like, "Oh, I better eat otherwise I'm going to get annoyed." You probably uh would benefit from doing a fast because you're probably connecting time to food, not necessarily to hunger. This was definitely me. This would benefit me. For example, if I did a 48 hour fast, I'd come out of it with a better relationship to food.

Now, if you starve yourself all the time, probably not a good idea. In other words, words, words, a snacker, you're always having to have something. something. something. Yes. This was my favorite thing. I've shared this before on the podcast to do with my competitors. Most competitors have have have I bet they were so scared, too. Oh, terrified. Terrified. Uh which is why I made them do it. It was uh because I knew that most, not all, but most competitors have some level of orthorexia uh or not.

And so that client who feels like they can't go 2 hours without eating a meal and hitting it and and fear of their muscles going to fall off their body, uh it's it's a good practice for them to to go through that and actually realize that you're going to be just fine. In fact, there's incredible health benefits for you doing that. And so those are typically the clients that I use a strategy like this. Again, most people that are on the fat loss journey don't hit enough protein consistently, undereat calories and we have the reverse item.

This strategy tends to work better with the, you know, I never miss a meal every two hours type of person of person of person or like Justin said, always got a snack, always got have Yeah. Yeah. Someone like that who needs to break the chains of their relationship with food and and they they haven't learned to how to distinguish between cravings and hunger. This helps teach that. And so that's where this is really valuable. really valuable. really valuable. Totally. All right. in the last uh you want to increase your activity.

Duh. But here's how you don't do this. So you do this over a twoe period. And often times when people are trying to accelerate fat loss through activity, they just go jump on a bunch of cardio. They go run. They go do some lots of intense activity, which there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. If you want to build endurance and stamina, but the intensity of it uh tends to overstress the body and it tends to promote a a downpairing of muscle as you start to train for endurance.

Here's a better way to do this. uh just double your steps. your steps. your steps. So you dramatically increase your activity, but it's a very low intensity leisure type of activity. Requires minimal recovery. It's minimal stress on the body. This is great for people who average 6,000 7,000 steps a day. Track your steps. 67,000 steps a day is not bad. Okay? 8,000 steps typically the target, but let's say you're hitting 67 a day. Get your tracker. I'm going to hit, you know, 14,000 steps a day.

Do that for two weeks and you'll see an acceleration. acceleration. acceleration. Yeah. You're just up, you're active, you're more productive. It's it's just that like it you're not trying to really feel the impact of it quite as much as you would like doing cardio in a long intense session. It's spread out throughout the day. And it's it's just one of those things like you notice I sit a lot during this period here. I you know I don't move around. I don't um there's a lot of things kind of hanging over you.

And this is just a great way to kind of attack all these things while getting the benefit. There's another compounding benefit to this that uh just recently I've been I've been talking to one of my family members about their activity level and everybody knows that I've been closely tracking my sleep lately because of everything that I went through and there's something that I kind of connected the dots with just recently that I think is really powerful and I I think a lot of people uh can relate to this and if you've never really paid attention to this try paying attention to this.

We a lot we're not the only ones that have jobs where we sit a lot at at at a desk or in in a podcast or a studio like this. And for most of human existence, we moved physically all day long. And I unless you were sick, right? We're built to do that. Yeah, we are. And I and I think that has a massive impact on how well you sleep. Not I mean, obviously strength training people have adashed that, but even just moving. our bodies were meant to move for that many steps or more every single day.

And I think sometimes just doing that ends up making sleep so much better. So maybe you're only training like cuz we tend to recommend like a 3-day full body routine for most people, but then the rest of the days if you're still if you're going you're strength training three days a week, which is great, but then you're only moving four to 6,000 steps on the other days. Just you simply getting that up over 10,000 steps, watch the impact that it makes on your quality of your sleep.

And the quality of your sleep makes a huge impact on your recovery and your strength and building muscle and all these other things. And so I think that that's another huge benefit to this is not just the fact that weight loss. I think it it's a compounding effect because it it naturally also improves sleep. sleep. sleep. You know what's funny about what you said, Adam, is any parent knows exactly what I'm talking about. You know what happens when your kids are sitting down all day and then it's time for bed.

Uh they don't want to go to sleep and it sucks. sucks. sucks. And somehow we think we're different. Now the difference is an adult. You don't cry and expect someone to come help you, which is why you just stay in bed and you have insomnia. You keep waking up. waking up. waking up. We're the same. So, like I know for me when I'm with my kids all day long on those days we don't work, like I get them to move and when I do that they go to bed so nice.

They such a huge difference. huge difference. huge difference. Oh my god. If it's raining outside and we end up doing nothing all day long, try to get the kids to go to sleep. It's so different. so different. so different. Attitude changes how well they sleep when they go. I mean, all those things. And you're right, that's they're such an a good example like we're we're no different. We just have we've learned to regulate our emotions. Yeah. So instead of throwing tantrums laying back. Yeah. Yeah. So instead instead we call it like oh I got a busy mind.

Oh but yeah what it is is that my my brain might be have going all day long but my body hasn't been and so I don't have that same physical exhaustion that you should have at the end of the day. And so I think that this is is such a huge hack for not just is weight loss, but of course the extra benefits that you get by improving sleep. And we talk about how important sleep is. And so and it says something again I've really really noticed what an impact it's it's made uh on myself right now with struggling with my sleep like really go.

I've I've actually you know we're the anti or non-cardio guys. I've been doing a lot more cardio a a day and it's low level. Well, it's list. So, it's like walking or elliptical type movements. So, I'm not doing strenuous, but it's really just to get this step. I need to get the step I Yeah, I need to get that energy out. I need to get the steps up uh and movement up for the day uh in order for me to improve that sleep. And it's made a big difference.

Totally. All right, I'm going to switch gears here. I saw this clip. I won't get too too detailed, but I saw this clip where these coaches were talking about how people how people how people uh these are fitness coaches. how people are using AI to coach them through fitness and nutrition. And so I think it's important that we address this because I don't think this is happening a lot, but it will. It will happen. Sure. Sure. Sure. And I think it's a terrible idea. Uh for the same reasons why many states I think there's now a few states and many many more who've now uh put this uh like they're going to start legislating this.

for the same reasons why many states have made it illegal to use AI for therapy. Uh it's a terrible coach and trainer. Now, what you'll get from AI are do this, do that. But what makes a coach effective? You talk to any coach, any personal trainer who's successful, who's been doing it for 5, 10 years, who has a good business, whose clients don't leave, who is good. You ask them what makes you successful and I guarantee you won't make the top 20 list is uh oh I just tell my clients the right stuff to do.

That's not what makes you a good coach. What makes you a good coach is you coach reinforce bias. reinforce bias. reinforce bias. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. you're going to ask it certain questions that you're want to steer it in a certain direction because you have your own tendencies and things you like and so it's going to feed you exactly what you think you want and it's not necessarily like what you need to be working on. So it's it's I think it's it's alluring, you know, and it's something that people are like really interested in because it seems like it's just like a genie.

It's like it's going to give you everything that you're hoping for and it's not playing out like that at all. And I think people are not cautious about it at all. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Super interesting you went this way. So, uh uh uh I I shared a a text with you guys on Christmas Eve. Um cuz uh Josh was in here, Eli was in here, Kyle was in here, uh all day working and stuff. And I I got to spend some really good time with them.

This happened to be the discussion. Um and what I actually said that I think is going to happen is it's going to grow. It's there's going to be a lot of it. And I think there's going to be a very clear divide because because AI, it's going to give the ability for these services to be unbelievably cheap. You're going to be able to get an AI coach for some $20 a month subscription or something like that at some point free. And the reason why this came up was because there's a lot of things on the back end that we use AI for.

And one of the things that uh Josh just recently built, he built AI S. And it's in it's actually it's actually really cool. It's really really cool. And I was actually really impressed with it. And we were discussing like how far do we we take this? And there was a little bit of debate. And one of the things that I told uh Kyle and Eli is that listen, I I'm I'm I'm fully on board with us utilizing some of the benefits and the tools of AI, but I want you guys to keep in mind that as we are building the like it's like we're building a new company or a new business right now with the trainer side.

It's it's unique. It's different than what we have done for the last nine years. And so one of the core values that I think all the owners I think you guys agree on is that why we're moving into this space is because we understand the the importance and the value of personal touch and and connection to humans in this new AI world that we're heading into. So if you imagine that's our core value as these all these opportunities to use AI within our business approach itself don't ever forget that that's what we value more and so AI s might be able to do some of these things for us uh in on this side of the business but I never want it to be the thing that is the relationship with the client just so we can make a buck.

I said, I want us to always keep that in mind. It's back end. It's not front end facing. facing. facing. Yes. And so, so, so it made it made the decision really clear because again, like I said, this thing was really, really cool. And it's like, now this would be a really cool tool to use to then qualify people that would potentially be real clients and stuff like that and help maybe somebody who can't afford personal training or do that personal touch like that. And so it h we can use it as an aspect of the business but really our focus is on people that value human connection.

People that want that personal touch because there is going to be a very clear divide. There is going to be people that will opt for an inferior less human touch less human connection for just bottom line this cheaps and it it helps me do something versus someone who's like you know what like I really value that human connection. Look, look, here's the bottom line with this. Uh the your success as a coach, first off, there's a bar. There's a bottom bar, okay? Yeah, you better know the right stuff to do.

You better know diet to an extent, exercise, technique, biomechanics, workout programming, like all the things that people say, you know, coaches, like that's the bar. That's the bottom, you guys. If you don't know that stuff, like don't be a trainer. So, that's it. That's the bottom. Now what makes a trainer that's good is can the client relate to you? That's it. Can they Now that's not just it. That's very hard thing to do. But can they relate to you and do they trust you? The best thing AI can do is fool you into that.

Now here's the thing. You know you're talking to AI if you're working with an AI co. Even if it fools you at the end of the day, you know it's not a human. it's never going to be as effective unless you go into it never knowing it's AI and you're completely fooled in which case I don't know we could still make some arguments but I know this as a co I know this is from someone who coached people for for two decades and who coached other trainers on how to train people like here's the deal you better know your stuff that's how you become a trainer but what makes you good is do they relate connect to you and trust you and the again the best thing that the closest AI could get to that is to just simply fool people.

But it's no different than having an AI girlfriend or boyfriend or therapist or best friend. Do you have any friends? Yeah, I have three AI friends. Those are my real friends. Is it the same though? Can you really relate to a an everlasting machine? machine? machine? So, this is this is the the main thing. So, in other words, right now AI is not going to give you the best answers yet, but it will soon. Soon, it's going to give you good answers, but it's not going to be as effective.

It just isn't. You know, I I don't even know if uh if that's the argument I make, although I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think the argument that I would make is that we're very aware what has happened in the last now two decades since the introduction of Facebook and iPhones and Instagram and all these social media tools. uh uh we are lonier, higher suicide rates, we have less friends, we have less connection, yet we're connected to more people, right? right? right? And we understand the what what chemicals and and and stuff and bonds that are made when we're when we're here right now.

Right now, there is a there is a clear difference between someone that is listening through us through a a you know, radio versus somebody who is listening in the room with you, right? And so it's not as it's not uh uh as bad, but the next level to I think not as good would be the AI versions of us having this conversation and someone listening. And so you you not only lose out on this this part, but then at least the people that are listening to real people right now get a a a portion of that connection.

When it's it turns into an AI, you lose completely. It's then becomes only information and data and science and answers. And we are social creatures and you you don't realize the potential ramifications of what that looks like. And I think that there is a already an example of that with what we saw happen with social media and Instagram. You have got more people that you're connected to yet we are more depressed because you're not doing it in person anymore. So what happens when you lose even the the the shows that you watch on TV or the the the shows that you listen to on a podcast become AI generated or the coaches that used to be a real person that's asking about your wife and kids and the days and stuff like that and it's an AI per it's an AI person who's asking about your cuz it will prompt and do all those things too.

So what it's like the answers will be good. In fact, I even think the answers can get to a point where you know it's like s with all the data that you we have. You wait till you see the one that we have. you're going to be blown away when you I can h I can have I we messed with it and asked like deep personal questions and started sharing emotions and your empathy came across right through it like so but it was an AI like you're saying and so you know so I think logically people will think oh this is great but I think you're you're getting even further away from the human connection and what we don't know is what does that look like 10 20 years from now and and and what we see see cuz I I don't think anybody saw Facebook and Instagram having those ramifications.

ramifications. ramifications. No, I don't think people said this is going to make us more lonely, right? I think I think I think they thought it would make us more connected. They thought I turns into narcissistic uh psychopaths really just I just think really I think really lonely and depressed even I think it's just going to exacerbate that. At least at least the person who's the the person who's connecting on Facebook and Instagram with a real person or listening to a real podcast or watching real actors because that the next one is the actors, right?

I've said this a while ago like we are this close to, you know, Tom Cruz never really acting in a movie and just selling his likeness and then it's now a CGI version of it and for our entertainment purposes, what do we care? It looks similar. Yeah, look similar, but it's like again now, but you know, you're not even watching him really act anymore. So, you got to think that that's going to have some downstream effects. downstream effects. downstream effects. You know what's funny is that this is kind of related.

I I think I might have sent this to you, Justin. It was like this long post about JRR Tolken and uh CS Lewis. CS Lewis. Yeah. When they went to go watch they went to the theater to watch uh was it Snow? Which one was the first Disney? Snow White was Snow White. They went to go watch. So, Snow White was the first animated featured film ever, right? They put it on the big screen and everybody wanted it was like this Marvel and J.R.R. Tolken and CS Lewis who were great storytellers and writers, right?

J.R.R. Tolken wrote uh, you know, The Hobbit and, and, and, you know, CS Lewis was the what is it? Narnia. Narnia. Narnia. Okay. So, Okay. So, Okay. So, Lion Wish Wardrobe. They went to watch it and they came out and they were just so upset and they're like, Disney took the art of storytelling and turned it into entertainment. And so then this whole article explains what it means. So, and so here was this this was their objection. objection. objection. They missed like the main morals of the entire story.

entire story. entire story. Here's their objections. Uh Disney took uh uh and made everything very clear, good and bad. So there's the evil princess, she's just evil. Here's the good guy, they're just good. And so they went to explain how real storytelling talks about the complexities nuances of life. Like life. Like life. Like name in in real life when people are all good or all bad. Like do are there people that are just pure good or pure bad? It'd be so much easier if that was the case.

You could categorize them immediately and be like, "Well, they're evil." evil." evil." Yes. Yes. Yes. It's not that clear. No. And so they were explaining how, you know, storytelling is supposed to tell us about life and make things hard to kind of grasp and think about, whereas Disney took the storytelling and just said, "Here it is, very simple, very basic entertainment." and teaches us actually, in fact, it teaches us things that aren't so great cuz you watch Disney movies as a kid and what do you think?

Fall in love, happily ever after, evil, good, prince charming, princess. Uh-oh, my life isn't that way. I guess I should get divorced or this is what's going on. Everything's wrong when that's not how. I think it was it was really really uh interesting article. That is a really interesting discussion and debate. I've never heard that uh that before. I mean it makes sense because and this is why you have a big like novel readers will always say the book is so much better and the reason I've always asked like why why why is it so much better I love watching the movie and they the argument would be the character development character development character development because the nuances of the the the evil character there's always something when they in a in the book redeeming there well redeeming or relatable where you you have more of an understanding like oh I kind of get why maybe they're the why they're bad like this and you you get a lesson in that you get a lesson of like oh I could see how this could make someone or turn.

Every hero in the Bible besides Jesus is incredibly flawed. incredibly flawed. incredibly flawed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Massively flawed. Massively flawed. Massively flawed. Cuz they're human beings. Cuz they're people, you know, you read about them, you're like, "Oh my god, David, uh, you know, a man after God's heart slept with his friend's wife and then had his friend killed." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The king, you know, the first revered, one of the most revered characters. characters. characters. Yeah, dude. So that's like Moses, Abraham, like all of them.

Uh, so anyway, um, I thought it was very interesting and, uh, who is it? Jonathan Piao talks about this cuz a lot of these these fairy tales that we know are actually rooted in old stories. They just changed them to make them, you know, easy to watch. He used the example of I think it was which story is it where uh she's given the poison apple. Is it also is that Sleeping Beauty? Sleeping Beauty? Sleeping Beauty? Uh Snow White. Snow White. And that's the one where she's like on the wall.

He did the black mirror thing with you know relation to the phone. Yes. But also there was one where he said in the original fairy tale that you know she's looking the mirror you know mirror mirror on the wall you know who's the ferris and it talks about this princess that's just the most beautiful so she gives a gift to the princess and you know what she gives her a mirror and a brush and you think what does that have to do with and she's because the story is showing this innocent princess the reason why she's so beautiful part of the reason she doesn't know yes yes yes she's so beautiful so she gives her a mirror and a brush looking at herself elf.

elf. elf. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And obsessing about her looks like that was not in any Disney fairy tale. Such a parallel to AI, too. I know. I know. I know. I mean, when you think about it and and like a lot of these or old stories, you'll see stuff like that where it's like people get consumed by their own um what do you call that? Uh when they're just obsessed with themselves. Yeah. And it it it it's clear like, you know, just just um vanity is what I'm looking for.

Yeah. they they get into that vanity of like, well, I look this way. People have reinforced and told me this way and then it changes and you age and then it just becomes this curse. So, I mean, playing devil's advocate here a little bit, right? Because a a big part of what we do and or why why we did this was to really reach the masses, right? One of the things we agreed when we first started this is like when we when you when we looked at the entire fitness space, it was like so much of an echo chamber of just, you know, obsessed fitness people talking to other obsessed fitness people about how to get in shape, which is literally like this tiny minority.

And we remember like, man, none none of this conversation was the type of stuff that we were communicating to our real clients that were normal people, right? right? right? Related at all. So part of the success of the show has always been that like that that was the goal was to go after and help the 98% uh and really and and inform and communicate uh in a way that that helped and they understood and so coming from that perspective you you have to think that uh and this is the the struggle is that you know AI s that is way inexpensive and affordable now gives somebody else gives somebody maybe the resources and tools that you know wouldn't have it before.

And so how do you wrestle with that you how do you wrestle with that dichotomy of like okay you've got this you've got you've got you've got this side of it that you think is new powerful force powerful force powerful force is evil bad all these things it's not good it's going to have all these ramifications downstream but then it also now allows somebody who could never afford to get coached by you can I just add here okay it might sound like me it might have all the information based off of the 2500 podcast that we release and all the other content but you know what AI cell is never going to do it's never going to tell you, "Hey, look, I'm I'm done.

I'm tired. Stop asking me so many questions, bro. I got to go be with my kids and my It's not me." Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it's not me. I I It actually won't even hang up the phone. phone. phone. It won't even hang up the phone until you say bye. Say bye. You call me If you're a fan Doug was messing with it the whole time. Doug would just be like, "Okay." And then then he would he would say something else. Love you. And then Doug, okay.

And then it just kept going and it would it would just keep going until he finally said, "Okay, bye." And then it would end. No, I think I think there's value in I think there's value in uh you know, Facebook and social media. I think there's value in processed foods. They have a long shelf life. I think there's value in a lot of things uh that have just become abused. So, uh you know, I I I hope what it does is it gives people good information and it helps people make the decision.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To work with a real code. I mean, it it it it does it does it does a great job. That was the point of it or the point that I made with the boys is that hey I you know this I don't want this to be a coaching service. This is something that that people should be able to use, utilize for free that wouldn't be able to and then and then the ones that know that they want help and coach it will be able to qualify and then direct them because we have so much traffic and so I think it'll be a good middle u for people you know you over the the overseas contractors you know take all the phone calls normally you know that's those are gone gone gone yeah they're gone like nobody cares about that a good chance you know You just you just you we you just highlighted something that I hadn't thought about really too that could also be really like we were I was joking but I was serious that um you know Doug was messing with it and not hang out the phone.

phone. phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought man you do that to me I'll hang up. How many How many How many like in real life dude you call me you call me when I'm eating dinner I won't answer you know. Well how many how many really lonely people are going to just terrible terrible terrible talk and talk talk and you know what I hate to say this Loneliness is terrible. Okay, there's a loneliness epidemic. But you know what the feeling of loneliness can do for a lot of people?

It could drive them to seek out seek out seek out Yeah. to to go out there. But if you plate that feeling with false connection, you'll never get out of your house. Just like pornography would do to a a teenage boy who's talking to girls. They're going to sell it to people that it's it's it's it's better than that, right? So, it's like they're going to sell it to people that it's better than being uh lonely. Like, hey, you can talk to AI South for 8 hours straight if you want.

You know what I'm saying? And he's really nice and empathetic and answers all your questions. He's brilliant. AI me. AI me. AI me. We like experimenting with you first. Yeah, I know. We did. I mean, there's You know why you talk so much, bro? There's way more. There's way more data. Are you guys trying to play? We tried to do AI just it was just like oneliners. What do you want? This is not going to work. work. work. just eat better and then mine had all these like spelling errors and I couldn't shut up was too mean.

Yeah, mine was Mine was too direct like you're That's cuz you're fat. Yeah, yours was hella good, dude. It's I can't wait for you to hear it. Like it's it's really it's really it's really I should I'm going to have it call my wife without telling her. I will you know just listen on the other end. end. end. Well, you have to So you have to do like Doug to really appreciate how good it is. You have to do like what Doug did. Like I I I told my family about it and I asked Josh, poor Josh, on I think it was like on Christmas day, I'm I'm bugging this guy.

Hey, send it over to me. I want to show my family. So I sent it and I gave it to them and they were like they were so lame with it, you know? I'm like no challenge. Yeah. They were just so like simple. Yes. No question. I'm like no no like like Doug really was like talking about like oh I'm really struggling with my butt and I you know I don't know what to do and you know it makes I I feel insecure. Like he was talking about his like he was sharing like a person.

send me a picture of something. And it did it did such a good job of of communicating to them. Was By the way, you're very empathetic. You're very very very much so. Like it it does I mean it let me tell you listening to it, it will be better than 90 I'm going to say 95% of all sales closers. Oh, I see. the the way it it uh the way it tied down, the way it asked questions, the way it uh Oh, dude, it was it's it's programmed really well.

Uh that I if you if someone's in phone sales right now, I'd be dropping applications places because it's it someone's going to program it to do stuff like that. It be so much. Yeah, it's so weird. Dude, we were speaking earlier of of mirrors and stuff. I got to tell you guys this this here's a testament to uh our partners at Caldera Lab. So we had our our 10year anniversary Christmas party and we had family and friends come and my cousin Se uh came with his wife Sarah.

Love them. My cousin Seth and I very very close. So he's always invited and he's come to most of them. So he shows up, they come, they hang out and then they left with their gift bag. So we give special guests and friends gift bags when they leave. And what's in there typically is a gift and maybe some some stuff from our partners. He had never used Caldera Lab. And now my my cousin is not like a I'm going to put stuff on my face kind of guy.

He just didn't even think about that. about that. about that. That's how it's g me. I wasn't like that till we worked with him. Right. So I go up there up there up there on I went up there on Christmas and we're hanging out and we go to the gym together. We go do a workout. It was the day after and uh and we were talking about peptides or something like that. And he's like, "Oh, I got to tell you." Like, "I really like the face stuff." He just said, "Face stuff." That's I'm like, and I forgot what we put on.

Like, do you do you Caler? He's like, "Yeah, caldera lab." He's like, "Dude, I love it. I can tell a big difference." I'm like, "Bro, you're using face creams. They're so effective. It works so well." They It does. It got my cousin. It It was It was He's going to buy He's going to keep buying it. buying it. buying it. It's the number one It was the number one thing in the gift bag. It was the number one thing in the gift bag that people uh that I mean, I got a text message from somebody that was just like, "Hey, I'm I'm I'm picking up some of that Caldera Lab.

I want to know, do you guys have a link or whatever? And I sent them over the partners thing uh to go through that that but that uh smart on them. Shout out to them for doing that. I mean, they supplied 100 people all that stuff. So, that's a Every person I've talked to is going to buy more. buy more. buy more. I know. So, me too. So, smart on them. That was a major investment for them to do that. I surprised the hell out of me that uh that they did that cuz Trina told me that like the like the last week heading in.

She's like, "Dude, you know Caldera Lab?" Caldera Lab?" Caldera Lab?" Well, they have to know. That's how it works, right? It's like you got to apply it. Once you actually use it, it just basically sells itself. I mean, to me, that's the that's what made that product so good was that you can be somebody who's not into that. I think all of us were not that person and you apply it one time and you can feel and see a difference and it's just like those are the products that just they sell themselves.

It doesn't it doesn't require you. Speaking of friends and stuff, uh, so Gabrielle Lion, is this her first event she's putting together? No, no, no. She's done this before. That's what I thought. Okay. Her Forever Strong experience. very popular. She's putting it out again January 10th. So, I was in it. So, she interviewed me. So, I'm going to be part of Great. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it was great. Was there a specific topic or did you go where did you go? where did you go? I mean, she stuck to my wheelhouse.

So, strength training and a proper application, you know. It's cool, too. I was talking to to to Dr. Lion. So, she's obviously an exceptional person, right? She's a a doctor. Uh very very disciplined uh woman, also just a great woman, but very disciplined. She's definitely in the fitness fanatic camp. Like she's a fitness fanatic. Okay. So, her questions, I could see that her questions were challenging her a little bit because she was like, "Well, how many days a week do people need to work out and don't they need to do this?" So, I was able to kind of communicate like, you know, well, this is what we tell people because most people are not going to become like you or I like fitness fanatics and this is what the data shows and she knows the data.

So, she's kind of like, oh yeah, you're right. You know, it was a really good conversation and she does a great job. She does such a great job. Great guests too. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, great guests on on this. Arthur Brooks, Lane Norton. Where is it? This is a live stream is what or or a stream, right? Streaming a virtual event. Uh, it's going to be on January 10th. It's totally free, by the way. Yes. So, everybody should sign up for it. Yeah, it's drrielion.comforever-strong- experience. So, it's free for everybody.

The name of that you you'll have it in the show notes, right? Yeah. I think the spelling of Gabriel is G A B R I E L L E and Lion is L Y O N. Yes. Yes. Do you know it's it's funny. It's got Who's that other guy? I can't I can never remember his name. He's all over the place. The Navy Seal dude. Joo. Joo. Joo. Joo is going to be on there, too. Arthur Brooks, Joo, Lane Norton. Awesome. And then And then And then Yeah, they have she she has a huge lineup.

So, it's a huge lineup of great guests. It'll be It'll be really cool. She's done so much to bring uh strength training and uh high protein intake to women. So much because she's a woman. It's the way she's a doctor. It's the way she communicates it. I mean her I mean I think she's coined the phrase unless I'm unaware that she got it from someone else but she's the first person I ever tell people that we are not obese, we are under muscle. And that I think that just hits like a ton of bricks when you hear that because most people just our society we've been saying that like you you could pick uh 10 strangers off the street that don't work out and ask them does America have a problem with obesity they would all say yes you know they would all say overweight's a problem.

Nobody no not one of 10 would say no they're calling it a silent epidemic because nobody knows. Yeah. And so I think that that message coming from her is such a powerful message that and I I I've got I've got to ask her if she's coined that because I hadn't heard anybody else say that um before her. You know, talking about uh fitness fanatics and um you know, recommendations on training and stuff like that. I'm I'm so glad you said that because I had actually seen a clip of our buddy Jay Campbell getting interviewed by oh this this guy what's his Chris Chris Cavalini or something like that like that like that and he's like one of them you know shirt off motivation hype uh you know high ticket coaching all the and also runs the the the man camps you know like you you you and and and your dad didn't love you and slap your fat belly.

fat belly. fat belly. Yes. So shame you for everybody. So I don't know him personally and so I'm I'm careful not to say too much because too many times I've been wrong and I end up liking someone when I meet him. But this the conversation is the point I'm describing who he is just so you guys know. Uh but the thing that I think is just is just off that they he asked Jay about how many how many times a week should somebody be in the gym?

And I I could hear that what he was doing was kind of countering a message that I think that we talk a lot about about how minimal it takes that you need to work out. And uh he Jay's like I think the average person should be you know four times in a week in the gym. And he's like yeah average. So if you want to be average you should be minimum of four days a week. And this is why I'm advocating, you know, I know there's a lot of people out there that, you know, advocate for less than this and that is just like if you want to be an average person, mediocre.

mediocre. mediocre. Yeah, dude. And so I was just like, I got to bring it up because I just want to this is the this is what drives me crazy about crazy about crazy about uh the people in in that are in fitness that the hype machine. You know who loves that message? People work out six days a week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, yeah, get them. Yeah, cool. Good job, dude. You got a bunch of people who work out a lot to agree with you. people that are still massively insecure and think that fitness revolves around six-pack abs and doing that and they've and they've justified that it's this connection to success and everything else and very similar to the people with the 4:00 morning routines and let me tell you like like like because you have all the paraphernelia that goes with it, right?

You got to sell the outfit, you got to sell the shaker cups and you know all the things. And what what I think the the reason why it's this like hamster wheel of of like consistent reinforcement is that it's so damn difficult for everybody to ever be that person that in fact most people will never be that person that it leaves people believing that just like ah this is that's why I'm not a millionaire that's why I don't have those because I don't do what this dude does and it's like like like you never get in shape like that and and what and you know pulling back the curtain for everybody who listens is that man, if you only knew how massively insecure insecure insecure all these people are about themselves.

And that's what makes them so disciplined on that is it's this crippling insecurity of being teased when they were little or that the the way they look in the mirror and that drive has given that has given the same thing. It's not just the body. It works financially. It works a lot of different ways. Like I'm fully aware that that that's where a lot of my drive and motivation came from was not having some of those things. Same thing came with fitness was I was teased when I was like I'm very aware that that was stuff that I that propelled me early on to get to get to where I was going because I was so massively insecure with those things.

And what you see on online are people still in the thick of it. They're still in the middle of it. And then they use all this storytelling to justify their behaviors. And it's like, but deep down they're riddled with insecurity around that. And just because somebody uh exerts macho and says all those things, it's like that's them selling themselves. themselves. themselves. That's them closing themselves that they're so secure and they're so this. That's why I walk around with my shirt off all the time cuz I'm so secure.

It's like, no, bro. That ain't it. That's not it, dog. that meanwhile is the same guy looking in the mirror every time pinching himself. Yes, dude. Yes, dude. Yes, dude. Oh my god, look at today. But everybody thinks that that they they want that. You don't want that. Trust me, you don't you don't want that. What you want what you want is to be able to be strong, be healthy, be fit, sleep well, be a present parent, father, husband, and enjoy so many other aspects of life.

enjoy the the the beautiful things of a of a good meal, a good glass of wine, a thing like that, and still be healthy and all those things. Like, that's such a a better way to to live. And it it doesn't require seven days in the gym, you know, an hour on the stairmaster and getting up at 4:00 in the morning doing 700 push-ups. It's not that that that running from something, dude. You'll never yourself if you're not doing well. doing well. doing well. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Stop, dude. But I mean it hits so many young young insecure men in particular. Uh Uh Uh I think for some people hearing the message of discipline is a good is not a bad thing right uh but the problem with our the problem with many spaces is the people that get the air time are the extremes. Uh and you don't necess look you talk about billionaires right who's who pops up Elon Musk. Would you really want to trade place with him? with him? with him?

No. Really? No. Really? No. Really? No. Yeah, he's super wealthy. Cool. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, but he's tormented. Obviously, the guy's constantly doing something, chasing something. Uh he'll say so himself. That's what I I don't want to trade. I wouldn't want to trade with him. I'm glad Elon exists. I've heard stories of him just like sleeping at the office, you know, when they go into these like and he'll just stay there for like weeks and like not with his family just to make sure these things get launched.

I mean, it's it's the same thing that you the same it's the same thing that you see with these pro there's a great uh new documentary on Netflix on John Elway. Great. Just one of the greatest quarterbacks to play the game. Went to the Super Bowl five times. Has two champions uh two championships. Like just incredible dude. And uh here he is. I think he's in his what is he? I think late 60s now. Maybe Doug L. I can't to get his name or his age right.

But uh you know um beautiful uh g kids. He has three or four kids and uh you know 14 years or 14 or 16 years in the league then ends up getting a general manager and then like loses his sister, loses his losses uh his marriage and realizes how disconnected at 65 years old uh how disconnected he was all those years from his family his family his family and because of his desire to to be this great and like I mean that's the part that we we just don't tell that side of the story very much when we see greatness like that, whether it be, are you kidding me?

Look at the look at our idols. It's like Marilyn Monroe. Oo, she's awesome. She died. She killed herself because of her lifestyle was terrible. terrible. terrible. You know, we look we we look at people like this and we put them up here as these great people to emulate. Meanwhile, the silent wonderful people out there, the moms and dads and uh you know, people out there that are doing a great job raising great kids who uh you know, yeah, they're not billionaires. They're not pro athletes, but they're doing a good job.

They're keeping things together. Uh you know, they're they're leaving a legacy. You know, I was at uh I was at my uncle's funeral um you know, over the weekend and uh he you know, he he was young when he died and his kids were up there speaking about him and they said the most they said the the nicest thing. You know what they said about their dad? They said both of them said this in separately. I don't have a single bad memory of my father. That's crazy.

That's crazy. That's crazy. Now, he's not a famous guy. He wasn't a billionaire. That's insane. But you got your kid up there, your 20-year-old kid who's, you know, said a lot of good things, but one thing they said was, said was, said was, I don't know anybody in my life that I don't have a bad memory of, but for them to say, I don't have a single bad memory of my father. I thought that was incredible. But he's not going to he's not on the, you know, he's not on social media with a million followers.

He's not, you know, nobody knows who he is except for the people around. Now, how do how would you guys describe this? cuz sometimes I think what what it comes across that because I think the argument the other side makes to this is like um cuz I'm not I don't feel I'm not selling balance either because I also recognize that recognize that recognize that um um um you know to to to do certain things to exceed in certain areas of sacrifice. Yeah. But I think what you're selling is context.

context. context. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh is you're there's a full story here. So this guy's glorifying seven days a week in the gym eat you know super structure whatever. But there's another side to that. There's an unhealthy side to that. But we don't sell that. What we see is, oh, it's this body. In fact, that's the best thing. That's what's going to make me so happy. Like, no, there's more to the story. So, I think it's context, I think, is what's important. So, important. So, important.

So, yeah. Yeah. Cuz I because I I als I I also think that, too, right? Because you you made the point of like I think, you know, teaching young men the importance of discipline and stuff like that. There's a there's a lot of value to uh understanding delayed gratification, discipline, sacrifice. Totally. There's a a lot of that that comes with uh being uh successful in in business and life and sports and in family and all those things. And it doesn't look like this beautiful beautiful beautiful uh balance of, you know, a perfect pie all the time.

It looks like sometimes I'm sprinting really hard in one direction, other times I'm sprinting hard in another direction, but I'm also and I I think the you know what I would define the balance is I'm always checking in with myself on that. That's right. Like it's like and I'm also always communicating that those I mean Katrina and I were all discussing this too is she was saying you know I I I love that you always come to me and tell me because I just recently came to her and been like you know this coming year with everything we're doing is like I'm going to need some of I'm going to need some of these days where I come home later than usual.

You know we've gotten really comfortable with me being able to pick Max up from school time this and that. like I need you to be understanding if there's a couple times a week now where I come home really late because we have this team now that I understand the value and it's important to me but I won't lo what I won't do is go all in on that and lose years of my son and you year and nights with my wife that's what I'm talking about is you got context you know trade right so it's not it's not um and so I guess I wanted to communicate that because I think sometimes people think that we're selling this perfect balance of like a little bit of everything and it's this per.

No, there's there's periods. Right now, we're in the middle of this massive transition. And so, I go to my wife and I go, "Hey, you know, I know you're used to not me coming home long nights. I'm going to have a couple of those a week probably this year coming up." And it just I need you to to know that and and be it's the communication of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the what we always try to highlight is just like if I'm in communication with my family and you know my people I'm working with and like there's periods where we need all the attention here and so then you let you know family know that or I'm you know I need to spend some time we're going to put more attention in this bucket and it's like that's the thing it just shifts a lot and and it's never like fully balanced but it's like you have to just recognize where the deficits are and where you you need to spend most of your attention.

for that period of time. Right. It's never fully balanced and but you never lose sight of the imbalance. That's right. That's right. That's right. Right. So, I think that's kind of like a way to say it is just like it's never balanced, balanced, balanced, but you're always aware that, hey, I'm I've been running this way for a minute and I'm certainly not going to let, you know, years go by of missing my son's important moments. And so, or even I won't even let weeks go by.

Maybe there's some a couple days where I I really grind that, but I'm gonna in that week I'm going to make sure I do. So, I think that's kind of what what it looks like. like. like. Speaking of work of of running hard, uh you know, that you know, I've talked about this now on the show a few times, the data on high doses of creatine to erase the the measurable effects of sleep deprivation. So, studies will show like you could test people on cognitive tests and you can see measurable effects of sleep deprivation and in the studies giving people 20 grams of creatine erases.

So, and I want to be clear, it doesn't mean you could do this and never get negative effects of sleep deprivation. It just means in cognitive tests in the short term, it seems to get rid of them completely, which is pretty cool, right? So, it's this nice band-aid. band-aid. band-aid. And so, I've been experimenting with this, especially when I'm sleep deprived. And so, uh, I'll do it with the with the Legion, uh, creatine gummies. gummies. gummies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes it easy because I can't do 20 grams all at once.

That'll give me stomach, uh, issues. But I'll do five grams, you know, four times in the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is miraculous. It really does. So, you brought you brought this up on the last time that we talked about Legion and so I wanted to I started since it's only been like Oh, that's right. Yeah. It's only been I don't know a week or so that I've been doing it and because I've been having issues with sleep. So, I reporting back so far so good.

Um, again, you know me, I'm always skeptical to like feel strongly about something until like I feel like I have enough consistency around that and enough good and bad like when I miss and when I don't. And so I'll now that I'm really actively trying to do it, I'll keep you posted on what I notice because I do have some of these nights that are rough still. I don't have all my sleep still is not back to to normal yet. And so because you said that, I'm like, you know what?

I really need to make a a better effort of really trying to see if I I I It's like four or five gummies I think is five grams. So just do that like four times in a day. Yeah, it was four. It's four I think is and so I was just splitting that up four or five times in a day. Makes a big difference. You just need to try that for like jet lag and all that like different time zone. Yeah, I'll have to try that.

Totally. Or head trauma. Here's what here's where the studies are going now is uh can it help with the negative effects? effects? effects? Yeah. Like healing. So like oh I had a concussion. Should I mega dose creatine over the next couple weeks? And I would bet money yes that it would make a big difference in in how quickly you heal and the ne and the potential negatives of of of of a concussion. Nice. Nice. Nice. Ha. Health is a multivitamin for kids except it's not candy.

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That's hi yahhealth.com/mindpump. That's the link for 50% off. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by Mindpump Fitness Coaching. This is the number one course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build sustainable sixf figureure plus businesses and careers in fitness. Look, it's roundt based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers. By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification.

Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. Our first caller is Lorraine from South Carolina. Carolina. Carolina. Hi, Lorraine. How you doing, Lorraine? What's up, guys? How are you? We're good. How can we help you? Um, let me first of all, thank you for having me. Um, super stoked. Uh, let me pull up my question so I don't ramble. And just a fair warning, a little bit of it has changed, but still the problem I guess would resume, still be the same. So 41 years old, 51 at the time, this was in October.

Um, 118 lbs, current body fat percentage of 26.9, been in the fit fitness industry for over 15 years. Used to compete, um, and now I'm a trainer. I'm looking to build muscle, drop body fat, and I'm having a hard time. Recently got into monitoring my metrics um with a Whoop band, and I cannot get my HRV to go up. It keeps dropping. dropping. dropping. And I weight train about three to five times a week. Um, but because I've been monitoring with the Whoop, I don't train when I'm in a low state or a red state.

I don't know if you're familiar with Whoop. Whoop. Whoop. But when my recovery says I'm low, I don't want to push myself and not train. Um, also been doing intuitive eating for years and years and then uh did a inbody scan and although I look the same, my body fat went up, muscle mass went down, and I realized that I'm not eating a lot of protein or enough protein, I should say. So, I want to do maybe one of the MAPS plans, but I don't know which one um because I get bored really easy because I've been doing this forever.

Um, but I don't know what to do about the HRV and while I'm I I want to build I want to lose fat and build muscle. So, I don't know what to do. Let's connect you the overtraining undereating. So, that's why you're you're you're having that so we can solve that. solve that. solve that. Yeah. Get get rid of the stop stop tracking everything your your HRV. So, just yeah, get rid of it. Let's just get you strong. Uh, and let's build muscle. That's how you're going to get leaner.

Uh, we're not going to get leaner by trying to get leaner. I know that sounds crazy, but for someone like you with your experience, you probably have a tendency to overtrain, undereat, let's get you strong. Yep. Yep. Yep. Maps 40 plus, great program. Uh it's great programming great programming great programming or 15. or 15. or 15. Or follow that or follow Maps 15. That's another good option. Uh do you do cardio on top of this? Anything else? No. God, no. I hate cardio. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Cardio I do is I walk my dogs. Yeah. Let's get you strong. And then let's get you eating uh what's your body weight at? 118, 120. So now I'm at 113. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um and now my muscle my body fat percentage I did this the inbody scan November 25th. Um it said my body fat percentage was 21.8 and skeletal muscle mass is 49.6. Okay. So you're sitting at 21% body fat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. You're doing good. Build. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Why you make that face? What's I would like to be a little and and I know like I hear it in my clients also. They the numbers thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I would like to see it a little bit lower like maybe 18%. Why? Why? Why? Um why? Um why? Um why? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to see my abs again. Yeah. Do you like your hormones? Yes. Yes. Yes. But those that's the crazy thing is um I just got my labs done. Not just it was probably back in February and it was rel they were normal.

They weren't it wasn't all all all whack at 20 at 20 something percent body fat they are. You get down to you get down to 17% body fat. You chase that affects it. Yeah. You're going to have your hormones are going to go. Listen too. Here's if if you were my client and we were training. Uh I I know I pull you kicking and screaming, but I said I'm going to push you said I'm going to push you all the way up to like 135 pounds and then I'm going to bring you Yes, I know you would.

You would. But then you then you would love me when it's all done cuz then I would bring you back down to like 125 lbs. You would have the best body you've ever had. You'd be eating more than you have. You'd have the you'd see abs. You would look good and you'd be all over. You'd be in a healthier place. Here's the way to get leaner for you. It's not to lose body. If you if you gain some muscle, your percentage of body fat goes down automatically because it's a smaller percentage of your overall body weight.

Does that make sense? sense? sense? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I explain it to my clients all the time. If you gained muscle right now, you're you're going to get leaner. Don't try to lose weight, just try to build. So, go ahead. So, I've been that's that's what got me to this place of really starting to track because that's what I was trying to do. I was trying to build build because obviously, you know, big booties, but um I I put on muscle really really easy.

Oh, good point. So, I thought it would be easy and it wasn't. And then when I started tracking, then I was like, "Shit, my fat is high and my muscle mass is low." Like, "What is happening?" A progressive overload plan. You You said it already though. You weren't hitting your protein intake consistently. consistently. consistently. Yeah. That's that's like uh you're building a house with no material. What was your average You could be You could have all the great hammers, nails, no material. You You can't You can't build it.

build it. build it. What was your average protein intake when you were tracking? Um, Um, Um, I was probably at like 80 to 90 grams. Let's go. Let's Let's go 120 minimum. 100 every day. Every day. Every day. Consistent. Consistent. Consistent. Uh, don't And don't do the thing where you're like, it's going to be dry chicken breast. Like, eat some fats and some carbs. some carbs. some carbs. Absolutely. Eat some fat and get strong. Just let's just get you strong and if you're getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction, right?

Absolutely. So then that's when I was having a problem deciding like well then which MAPS program should I try because I don't I mean yeah I don't know how many days a week do you like going to the gym like like like yeah how many how many days do you like yeah like to go to the gym not that you do how do you like what do you want to go to the gym every now you've made that clear clear clear five so mass mass 15 yep yep yep mass 15 mass 15 mass 15 are you okay with doing two lifts a day not okay you have to when I heard y'all talking about that I was Like, oh, that's the problem.

Do that. Do that. Do that. That's the problem, though. Let's send her mass 15 muscle mommy. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep. You said you said booty, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. There's a little focus there. What? And and literally with the the calories, if you just go after the protein we're saying and get it from good fatty meats, uh, chicken thighs, ribeye steaks, have some tri tip every now and then, salmon, like enjoy fattier cuts of meat. It'll take care of the calories. So, you don't need you don't need to like try and find an extra meal to put it in there.

Like, go get that protein consistently. Enjoy yourself fattier cuts of meat. That'll b bump the calories. It's also going to probably be cuz I don't know where your fats are. Typically, my my girls I have to get their fats up a little bit anyways. And so, just go for fattier cuts of meat. It'll take care of both problems for you. And then and then cut back on the volume, intensity, and stuff that you're doing in training. Follow the MAPS 15 protocol and watch what happens. Yeah.

Don't weigh yourself cuz that's going to mess with you. stay away from that cuz honestly the path is like what I said 130 something possibly on the scale and then back down to like 125 128 and looking like you've never looked before and feeling the way you've never felt before but the psychological part of seeing a scale go over 130 I know would would freak you out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean Yeah. Yeah. I mean Yeah. I know. I know. I say it to my clients all the time when they're wanting to build and lose fat and build muscle.

I'm like, don't pay attention to the scale. But I wasn't seeing anything on me. So, I was like, what the hell? Maybe I shouldn't follow my metrics. If you and especially if you build muscle easily, like you said, this is going to you're going to love this going to work. Dial it in. And the other option of this, I mean, we gave you the path. Uh, if you find yourself still struggling with it, I mean, this is why coaches have coaches, too. So, you know, just cuz you have the knowledge and everything like that, sometimes you just need you need someone like me who's talking to you once a week and going, and going, and going, "You're fine.

you're doing great, keep doing that. You know what I'm saying? When you try and tell me otherwise and be like, "No, you're doing great. Just keep going." And so, that's something to consider, too. If uh if you find that you you keep, you know, jumping back, going the other direction, you start hitting PRs and some of the big lifts, uh you you're moving in the right direction and you're going to see your body get leaner as a result. So, I shouldn't be worried about the HRV situation.

situation. situation. You know, here's the deal with HRV. You know who you should use HRV? Uh it athletes who are in season who are working with coaches and nutritionists who are really towing the line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what it does to everybody else? It just it just hyperfocus on Yeah. It's like just get stronger. I also think the reduction in I think the reduction in volume and the increase in protein is going to take care of it also though. also though. also though. It's it's yeah that part of the reason why that is is you we're underfed.

We're not getting the giving the building blocks once. You're training hard. Your body's trying to recover. So that's what you're So I bet it would. But it doesn't matter. I'm with S. Like I I don't have any clients I use HRV for just so it's such a I like I like things like Aura or if you use the Whoop. I like it for steps just to keep an idea of activity, you know. Okay. And I do like to see my sleep score stuff. Like I think that's valuable to know kind of like, oh wow, I strung two bads of good sleep together.

I better back off the intensity day. I think that's really valuable feedback. Um, but that's all I really use those tools for. I don't care what brand, which one you like more or whatever. But it I look at activity level, just keep an eye on it relative to what it because what I have found is that everybody has a day, two or three in their week and is very inconsistent to the other days. And becoming aware of that is is really valuable because you either one need to pick up your activity with walking or you need to adjust calories on that day because you're you're not nearly as active.

That's really valuable. And then also just knowing that, oh wow, I've had two or three bad days of sleep. I better take it easy in the gym and just go through the motions. Other than that, all the other stuff is is we're over complicating it and I think it ends up uh more paralysis by analysis for people. people. people. Okay, Okay, Okay, cool. cool. cool. All right, All right, All right, we're going to send that over to you. I'm excited. Thank you so much. Let us know how it goes, please.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I will. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, that's going to be hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why that's why I brought up the coach thing is just like might maybe consider that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a lack of she doesn't know. She's been coaching people. I bet she's giving that advice to other people. I mean, I mean, I mean, but you see the look on her face when I say 130 something. IT'S ALWAYS DIFFERENT WHEN IT'S YOURSELF.

YOURSELF. YOURSELF. I've trained a lot of girls like that and uh then when they do what I tell them, it's like boom. like results are just just just there's a point and and and and that's like if she when she listens to this if she didn't go the coach part you're investing in the coach to just get you to that point because there's a there's an unlock point is I don't know if it's four weeks I don't know if it's six I don't know if it's 12 but if you follow them and you follow the plan there comes this point where you see it you feel it and and then it's like oh [ __ ] like that number would have freaked me out but I'm looking at a body I've never seen before and I like and I'm lifting weights and you go and I'm eating more than ever ate like okay and then all a sudden it unlocks but sometimes you need somebody there to you need someone that you just you outsource it fine I'll do what you tell me fine cuz you can't trust yourself and then it works our next caller is Savannah from Oklahoma Oklahoma Oklahoma hi Savannah hi Savannah hi Savannah how can we help you okay I'm just going to read my question figured that would be easiest so um I'm 37 years old 5'7 155 lbs around I kind of sit between 22 and 25% body fat.

Um I was a college athlete. I also played pretty much every sport growing up. Um degree in health and exercise science comfortable lifting heavy. Um but I'm really having a struggle in transitioning away from like training based on percentages and one rep maxes. Um I have MAPS anabolic anabolic advance and muscle mommy. I really want to try to stick through using one of your programs all the way through, but I honestly get a little overwhelmed trying to figure out what weight to use and like when to go up in weight.

Um, I love doing programs uh by sorix. I do squat over dead simber every year. Um, but I also know that's not sustainable year round. Um, I currently am focused on building muscle and leaning out. I tend to hold extra weight in my lower belly and I kind of have that harder time getting of like what you would say a more defined look. Um I did start topical testosterone in September and I take progesterone at night. I also micro dose on a GLP1. Um I developed hypoglycemia and insulin resistance after having COVID in 2020.

Um my body pretty much does not regulate blood sugar on its own. Um and that's actually kind of been like a miracle drug for me. Um, nutrition-wise, I really aim for 140 grams of protein a day. Sometimes I land closer to 120 just because of work and traveling. Um, so my main question was, what programs would you recommend me starting and what goal should I set? And then how do I determine what weight to lift when I'm not using percentages based on like one rep maxed?

This is a rad question because like almost never do you hear somebody ask a question like this. Yeah. Uh, so you're definitely athlete background. I want to know what you do for work. Can I ask what you do for? Just curiosity. Um, I work in construction. Um, I'm the manager of communications and executive services. So, I manage all of our executives. executives. executives. You're doing great. You, it sounds like you like strength. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You train kind of like a strength athlete, uh, based off of percentages and this is how much I can lift and all that.

It It's It's really just learning how to feel. So you're you're going to pick a weight that's going to be difficult within the rep range that's prescribed and you're just going to have to trust and you have to kind of train like a bodybuilder. Also also this is one of the things I always communicate too is that you know when we set out like these maps any plan that go for this right like uh and it says six reps if let's say you you guessed the weight and you guess wrong and you put a little too heavy it's okay that you did three reps.

It's also okay that you did 10 cuz you picked too light of a weight, right? It's okay. It's like it doesn't ruin the program. It's not going to ruin your results for the next so the next time you come around that you realize like, "Oh [ __ ] I was stronger than I realized." Or, "Oh [ __ ] I overestimated on what I could do." It ain't that big of a deal. It really isn't. Like, it doesn't have to be that prescribed. You got to figure out something that you land right on that.

And so, you can give yourself that permission. Now, typically, you're you're a little bit different cuz I you you like you have the athletic background and you like to live strong. Normally with my girls, I'm like, "You can do more." And I keep trying to push them to fail at three when it says six. And so, I have to do that. you might be the opposite and I might have to kind of pull you back a little bit, but that you're a rare case. But it's okay.

It's okay. And it's just as okay. Like Sal said, if you picked a weight, it was a little too light and oh, you got an extra two or three reps and then the next set uh increase it a little. little. little. You know, would be a good program for you. you. you. What? What? What? Map symmetry. Map symmetry. Map symmetry. Okay. map symmetry. I I think I might have it actually now that you say that, but I think I got like I started reading all the testing stuff that you have to that you kind of do at the first and then I got super overwhelmed.

overwhelmed. overwhelmed. No, no. Map symmetry that the first two weeks is isometrics. After that, you get it's all unilateral training. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And you'll and you someone like you is perfect for you because you got to feel it's all about technique, form, feel the muscle. muscle. muscle. Plus, because of your strength background, background, background, you geek out on that part. Unilateral training is probably not something you really focus on a lot and so it's going to balance out your body. You're going to get more symmetry.

You'll build more muscle. Okay. No, I think she has prime. I think she's talking about you're talking about prime. We'll send symmetry over to you. I I will caution you. Be patient. The first two weeks will be the most uh challenging mentally because it's you're not moving a lot. You're doing a lot of isometric stuff and that like somebody who's like a go-getter, go do things like like move like like push athlete. uh slowing down for the first two weeks of doing isometrics. This enhances your recruitment process.

This may feel a little bit torturous to you, but really important for laying the foundation for the rest of the program. So, if you trust us, you trust the process, follow it how it's laid out. Uh hang in there on the first two weeks when it's a lot of isometric stuff cuz it get it starts really it gets into some great stuff. It gets really good and then the program ends with a traditional 5x5 so you can see how strong you got from training that way.

that way. that way. Yeah. So, it's got a cool way to kind of wrap it all up, but you got to trust the process. Trust what we did totally and do that. But, like I said, it's it'll really add a nice aesthetic to your physique. Awesome. That's super helpful. I think I just got in my head in terms of like I have to stick to five reps. So, I think that's helpful coaching wise, like if it's if you can do more, do more. If you need to do less, do less.

Everybody Everybody does. Your body's going to respond really well, too. By the way, if this is how you've always trained and you move to something like this, it's totally novel. you're going to see some really nice shape and fullness and roundness to your muscles. muscles. muscles. You got to go through the experimentation to really like you you'll recognize the weights and and you'll just know like in the future after going through this quite a bit like what works best for you and how to push yourself.

push yourself. push yourself. And you know, think of it this way too, Savannah. Let's say I pick a weight and you know, the rep range says eight and I'm on rep six and I'm like I could probably do 12. You know what I'm going to do? to do? to do? I'm going to slow the rep down. I'm going to squeeze. I'm going to make it so that eight is what I can do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, this is this is like how body this is how bodybuilders train and there's a lot of value to it.

Especially if this is not how you normally train. That's it. It's the perfect form. It's the mechanics. And so, if you're doing it with slow tempo, that's how we gauge it. And then from there, it's like what you can control and then we add to that. It's another way of progressive overloading. You're increasing intensity by slowing the tempo down. So, you don't it's weight is not the only metric that progressively overloads the body. There are other ways. And so when you just like s when you're heading into and you're like, "Oh, this is too easy." [ __ ] slow that way down.

Make eight really, really hard. And I mean like really down like you can make it to where it's like a 6second negative. You do two or three reps like that, it makes that weight feel a double double what it is easily. You can make it fail at that. So, but I I I would love to hear back from someone like you with your your discipline, your background, your consistency consistency consistency applying symmetry. I think if you if you stick to it, you trust the process with us.

Uh, I would love to hear you results after after after Can we have you back on in a few months? I want to hear how you how this all went for you. for you. for you. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Let's do it. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Very cool. We'll see you soon. All right, Santa. Okay, sounds good. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. See you. See you. See you. Yeah. Rare that you hear a female come on like, I don't know how to train except for percentages and it's like, oh, this is going to be great for you.

Yeah, this is going to be because she's not afraid of lifting. She's not afraid of of of the right mentality. No, right mentality. By the way, most women would do better training like her because they train in the other way, right? It's very rare. But uh when you go from that to feel, contract, squeeze, unilateral, you know, when you train bilateral strength, then you switch to unilateral, suddenly it's like a whole new Yeah. I remember who was our friend uh what's his name? his name? his name?

Ben. Ben. Ben. Yeah. I remember he was doing split stance stuff. stance stuff. stance stuff. He's a guy who squats over 650 lbs. Split stance like 135 and he's like uh because it's just it's super foreign. Yep. Yep. Yep. Our next caller is Troy from Utah. Hey Troy, Hey Troy, Hey Troy, what's going on Troy? What's up man? What's going on? Fellas, how are you doing? doing? doing? Good. Good, man. How can I help you? Doing good. I'm just going to say right now, this is weird.

The last five years I've been talking to you in my car and you never actually talk back. So, give me give me a second to get used to, but I know this is weird. All right. Uh yeah, I'll dive right in because it's a little bit of a a weird odd long question, but uh the main one is how can I balance the desire to be financially successful with personal training with giving the glory to God and just wanting to overall help people to the best of my ability.

So, a little bit of backstory and bit of little bit of backstory and context so you kind of get the full scope of it. So, 34 years old, starting to go into the gym when I was 13. Uh I was a homeschooled kid growing up. So, you know, didn't necessarily fit in super well with the other kids uh in my age and I was always a lean kid. So, when I'd get compliments about, you know, the way I look, things like that, my brain attached it to, oh, if I'm jacked, then I get the acceptance of other kids.

And, uh, so I kind of just ran with that. Fast forward to my early 20s, dabbled in physique competitions for a couple of years, which for for anyone listening when the guys tell you that uh competition is not going to fix your insecurity, please listen to them because they're 100% correct. So yeah, I did that for a hot minute and then worked for a big box gym for a little while doing personal training management for them and unfortunately it was just a not so great experience.

there's a lot of shady stuff they were kind of doing with uh their business deals and just the GMs and DMs uh that didn't sit super well with me. So, it kind of left a a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when it came to personal training at big box gyms. And at that time, I was going through my CPT searchs, but by the time I got to the end of it, my, you know, kind of understanding of personal training, everything was associated with what I saw going on there.

So I thought, why am I going to do this if this is what it's going to be? I don't feel good about uh going about it this way. So stepped away from that. Uh fast forward a couple more years, just kind of kept getting this sense of wanting to, you know, take this love of fitness and nutrition, everything I learned over the years, and you know, bring that to other people. So I was helping out, you know, friends and family and eventually started to try and, you know, build an online following.

online following. online following. Did it all the wrong ways, you know, trying to kind of hack the algorithm and, you know, emulate what I was kind of seeing with other fitness influencers. And of course, it just was terrible. And uh eventually, you know, just felt too conflicting. I was like, I don't want to keep doing this and kind of stepped away from it. and I got my CDS during that time period just from listening to you guys. Um, I want to preach mobility more to the people I was helping out.

And then most recently in the past year and a half here at my job, we have a Slack groups that we can create uh and manage with other people. So, I created one just where I put out uh fitness tips and tricks, you know, once twice a week for people that they can just follow along to. I've done a couple mobility classes here at the office, some uh movement assessments, just breaking down exercise for people who feel like they need the help. And I've just been doing that for about the last year and a half or so.

And I guess it's just hitting the point where it feels like that door to, you know, actually taking this on as more of like a source of income is coming up again, but my mind flashes back to all the times that I did it the wrong way or I was doing it for the wrong intentions and not actually to um you know honor God through what I was doing. Uh but also just to you know give back to people in the best way that I know how.

So, my main question is I almost feel conflicted about bringing money into the equation. Um, and I know you guys talk about getting the reps in uh, and taking time just to give things away for free. And it it almost feels weird to step out of that. So, yeah, just curious as to your thoughts on where I should take this, if I should take this somewhere, and yeah, anything that you got for me, guys. guys. guys. Yeah, good question, dude. Um, okay. Okay, so you want to Here's the good news about fitness.

It's not a hard field to do for the right reasons. There's a lot of fields out there where you kind of have to think to yourself like, okay, who am I serving here? Right. Right. Right. Uh but the the good thing about fitness is um I mean, if you do a good job, Troy, as a trainer, you improve somebody's health. You help them improve their health. You help them navigate a modern world where the default is uh dysfunction around diet and activity. It's poor health. Um and so and you know the Bible talks about this, right?

It talks about uh how your your body is a temple. Um and to essentially care for it and treat it well so that you can do the things that let's say God wants you to do. Uh money is not bad. A lot of people think that there's a there's a quote in the Bible that money is the root of all evil. That's not true. It's the love of money uh that is the root of evil. Um and are you familiar with the parable of the talents?

Yeah. When I don't know off the top of my head. my head. my head. So, you know, Jesus gives a parable where he talks about a master uh giving um three of his slaves uh talents or money. And he gives five to one, two to another, one to another one. And then afterwards, he comes back after being gone for a while and he asked them what they did. And the guy with the five talents said, "Oh, I took your five talents and I invested it here and I did this and I got you another five talents." And and the master says, "Great job.

Uh, I'm going to give you more responsibilities. You did a good job." The guy with the two talents comes back. Same thing. He increased its value. He said, "Great job. You're going to get more responsibilities." The guy with the first talent, the one talent says, "I buried it. I knew you were kind of a harsh man. I buried it, saved it, brought it back to you. Here it is." And he's like, "You idiot." Essentially, um, you could have put it in the bank at least and gained interest.

um you're getting nothing. In fact, I'm going to give your talent to the other one the other guys and I'm going to put you out into the in the wilderness where there'll be the, you know, the weeping and nashing of teeth. Right? So, he's the parable is essentially saying that you're given talents um by God and if you don't use them, uh it's a waste. And so if you if you if you love fitness and you love helping people and you're trying to help people genuinely and you're a good steward uh with the money you earn from it, this is that is for God's glory.

Now, if it's for the sake of your own fame, of your own pride, of your own, you know, I just make money for the sake of making money, um well, that's that's totally different. But if if you genuinely are are trying to help people and you do it from that heart posture, it's great, man. And we've proven you can do it the right way. By the way, I'm so glad that S went that way cuz I had something to say to you right away and I wanted to wait to see what he had to say and it's so crazy that it align I was going to ask you if you know uh your gifts and one do you believe that God gives everybody a gift, a talent to his parable and do you know what yours is?

And I think that's the most important piece. If you believe or know what your talent is that he's given you, the best way you can glorify him is to go go be great at that talent, go do it and share it with the world. So, uh, first identify that. Um, and if you believe you know that and it fits somewhere in this helping others and personal training and working out and health, then then you're you're on the right track and do it to the best of your ability and uh you're serving him through that.

Uh so I think sometimes uh people overthink this or what it looks like and many times they feel like they need to express it and tell everybody he knows your heart posture. He knows where it comes from. Um and so let that lead you and guide you. Uh but also uh don't be lazy and just dig a hole and bury it and think he's going to come steward of it. Yeah. Do work at it. Be great at it. Struggle through it. Keep going. You know what I'm saying?

And it's like By the way, Troy, what you're saying, even for non uh Christian trainers, they struggle with the way they struggle is they say, "I just want to help people." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to help people, but I don't want to charge them for it, which is uh silly because if if you don't make this into a business, you can't help. Can't reach as many people. That's right. That's right. That's right. So, yeah. And that's the thing, and I I understand the same thing like, you know, this is trainers across the board.

It's that it is kind of a bit of a service focused uh business. And so it's like, you know, and you want to help people and this is a passion uh driven job. Um and so yeah, to to be able to understand though, um as a business, any business, you know, that's what that's what helps move things and grow things to a level where you can help and reach uh a lot more people, which is is really the goal uh for that. So um you're doing good things through the the money is is a part of that equation.

So there's nothing wrong with that. It's um like you said, it's the the love of it, the obsession of it. We could have the four of us could have kept just putting this free content out into the world and still helped hundreds of thousands of people like we did um and not built a business around it. But we built a business around it that now supports supports supports Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 30 employees. Those 30 employees go out and impact hundreds of lives every single month like in person.

That That's crazy. I mean, not only just their but on top of the lives that we continued to impact on this podcast because we built a business around it. I mean, uh I'm sure there's a percentage of people that wish we would have just kept everything for free and just kept doing that and and sure, but we only went able to do that for so long. The fact that we built a business around it has allowed us to kept us here. Yeah. Has kept us here this long has allowed us to employ so many families and lives and then they go out and go impact so many.

So, it's far bigger than just this little room right here. Let me give you an example, Troy. Okay. So, um you know, we could sell we could sell a lot of workout programs by using before and after pictures of the people that have used our programs. But we know in our heart that that kind of um you know that pushes people towards that body centric, body obsession type of deal that we speak against. And so the thing is like, okay, we could sell more programs, but is it really coming from the right place or is it is it serving people in the right way?

And we decided no, it's not. And so we left a lot of money on the table doing it the you know, we would consider the the right way. And I think we've proven that in the you can do that in the fitness industry. You really can. And I I'll make this argument here. If you do it the right way, you'll build a more sustainable business. You'll make more longevity to it. Yeah. So, so you know, go out there and love people in genuine ways. Uh, build a business.

Be a good steward with your money. Check yourself when pride comes in because it's going to do that every day and you're totally fine. And don't and don't worry so much about it. I think you're doing good. I think you have the right you're already just cuz you're asking this question tells me you're you're moving in the right direction. right direction. right direction. I was mentoring uh three trainers the other day. This was just last week and having a similar conversation with uh for with what to focus on where they're at.

And I think you're even further along than than they were. And I said, "What you need to focus on right now is serving and building a community of a few hundred people with the goal of getting to a thousand. Can I serve and help a few hundred people? Can I build a community uh that I don't really make probably any money off of, but but build this community of people that I'm serving, I am helping? And if you can get to a place where you start reaching 500 to a,000 of those people that you've done that with, you're sitting on a million- dollar business.

And instead of actually wondering what you're going to sell or going to do, continue to serve and allow the community to tell you what they want from you and the opportunity will reveal itself. And if you that right there is hard enough, takes long enough, requires consistency, discipline, follow through, and is going to take enough time that everything else will unfold. But everybody gets distracted by algorithms and virality and what business plan I'm going to do and I heard this guy on a salesunnel and how to make 10,000 overnight.

And we get all distracted by all this other [ __ ] It's like go use your gift that was given to you to go serve as many people as you can and it's going to start off like this. It's going to be 10 people and then it's going to be 50 people and then it'll be a hundred people and then it'll be a few hundred people. Now you're starting to get some momentum and then before you know it, maybe a year, maybe two, maybe 3 years later, okay, you've got a thousand people that absolutely love and adore you because you have changed their lives on a million and they are going to tell you what they want and what they need from you and there's your business and you're sitting on at least a million dollar business right there.

Just focus on that. on that. on that. And then, you know, one last thing, Troy, you know, you you have the God of the universe. uh pray before all this stuff, stuff, stuff, you know, don't take out the supernatural. It's real. And so ask for guidance. You're going to need it 100%. Cuz you're going to uh you know, move in the wrong direction uh throughout even throughout every day. So just in involve prayer throughout this whole process. But because you're asking this question, it tells me your heart's already kind of starting off in the right place.

For sure. sure. sure. I I appreciate that for sure. Yeah. I think for me it was definitely more of a like a worthiness thing. Like am I actually worthy to receive money for this? I I'm good with, you know, I could have conversations with people for hours on end just on health and fitness and not think about, you know, oh well, what am I getting out of this? I just love talking to people about that. And yeah, I think it's for me just that getting past the imposttor syndrome of saying it's okay to, you know, make money while also doing this.

Let me switch that for you. Okay. They'll determine if you're worth That's right. That's right. That's right. Your customers will determine if you're if you're worth money. You don't make that decision for them. You don't have uh you know that that's actually quite arrogant if you think about it. It's like, oh, I'm arrogant enough like let me let them decide. So here's my services. services. services. They'll decide. And then the second thing is this unworthiness. turn that into gratitude into gratitude into gratitude because it can easily turn into shame, which is not that's not valuable.

Gratitude is very valuable. Like, wow, man. I can't believe like I get to do this. I'm so blessed. Like, look at these clients and they're paying me and I've got this business and I'm supporting my family family family and this is and I get to do this thing that I love. Like, that's that's where it should go. Not the like I'm, you know, know, know, grateful for the results and the knowledge that you're passing on to them just like any other business. Have you been listening to the podcast long enough or before we actually monetized and made any money from the business?

Did you ever did you listen that far back? How far back are you? I've been about 5 years. So not I don't think quite that far but Okay. So So the the story goes uh Maps Anabolic existed before Mind Pump Media did. We had something to sell. Um we did over 250 episodes. Okay. So a year of free content, free content. We had a free forum that we were driving people from there, helping them. The four of us were talking to those people every single day, helping, helping, helping, help.

And and what had happened was after about a year, year and a half. So many people every day were just trying to give us money. We weren't trying to sell anything. We didn't we didn't tell anybody about Maps Anabolic yet, but people felt that felt compelled to give. They wanted to donate. They wanted us to start a Patreon. And when it got to a point where every every owner was coming to the studio hearing I got at least two messages just yesterday just like that it's like okay now it's time to offer this maps anabolic program that we have and when we did that it that was the beginning of beginning of that was the beginning of what started everything.

So go serve with that attitude not of I need to charge of I need to go serve and help the business will will will reveal itself and and if it doesn't keep working on your craft. Keep working on what you're serving and then and then it'll show it'll show you. Yeah. I I love that guys. Yeah. Appreciate it. And yeah I think it's just the the words I needed to hear and confirmation. Just keep grinding away at it and keep Yeah. my heart postured towards God and people and then like you said the rest will kind of shake itself out.

So yeah, that that makes total sense. sense. sense. Yeah, dude. Go do it. Go do it, Troy. Go do it. Right on, brother. We'll do, guys. Okay. Well, just want to leave it off. I know you hear it every day, but I hope it's never lost on you that you guys are leaving behind a legacy that's just a lot more than helping people with their health and their fitness and all these things, but you're really uh exceptional men that I have the most and utmost respect for.

So yeah, just God bless you guys. I appreciate everything that you do and you've given me so much personally in my life that you know I I can't give enough gratitude for that. So thank you guys. Thank you, man. Okay, have a good Christmas fellas. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So funny. Literally last night I read I was reading the parable of the talents. I was going to jump right in. I had something to say. I'm like, let me hear what cell has to say first.

And it was like oh it was so aligned with where I was going. It's just that I mean I I believe that everybody has a gift. You're given you're you're given them. If this is what you believe, if this is what you follow, you're given gifts for the the kingdom. That's it. And if you don't use them, you you hoard them to yourself. You hide them. They actually wither and disappear. And that is sinful. That's the thing that you want to use these gifts. And and fitness is great because you're genuinely genuinely genuinely helping people.

You know, you're not selling cigarettes. you know sometimes some businesses I could see how it would be a hard like what am I doing I'm like am I actually helping people in fitness you are helping people that's hard to reconcile but yeah this is easy I mean it's I mean I know at least in my personal life um you know I there's and I've shared this before I mean I left the fitness career to go chase the money and it was very obvious to me after a couple years um that it wasn't I wasn't aligned with my gifts I wasn't aligned with what I was supposed to do.

I accomplished the money thing. More unhappy than I'd ever been. Relationships were [ __ ] It was very obvious that I wasn't That's a great thing to communicate. I wasn't using my gifts. And so I think that's this dilemma that a lot of people get though is like they they're attracted to something. It could be money, could be a fame, could be attention, could be oh that looks like fun to do, but you're not using your gift, but then you're drawn to this thing and then you're wondering why you can't unlock it.

And it's like, well, maybe it's because you're not aligned with your gifts and the potential that you you you or you're like a curse, which you actually came out of it with with a in the right way, which is you get what you think you want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you had the strength to say, "This is not what I want." But a lot of people chase the money, get the money, and they're afraid to leave even though they're miserable they're miserable they're miserable or they think it's just they need more.

They Oh, even worse, and they just keep chasing it. chasing it. chasing it. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. 30% body fat for men. This is way too high. This is actually a bit high for women as well. So, in today's episode, we're talking about how you can go from 30 to 10. What is 10% body fat? This is when you have a visible six-pack. Can you go from 30 to 10%, yes, it's possible, but not if you guess along the way.

So, we're going to talk about how you can do that today's episode. Now, there's a huge range, right, of like body types. Some people can run uh a little bit heavier uh and or a little bit higher