3 Ways to Build Muscle and Endurance (How you Should Approach your Training) | Mind Pump 2801

Key Takeaway

Training for both strength and endurance requires strategic planning. While combining them in one workout is popular, separating them by alternating weeks may be most effective for building both attributes without compromising either. The key insight: dedicate full weeks to each training style - this builds momentum, prevents mental fatigue from constant switching, and forces you to develop appreciation for both approaches rather than gravitating only to what you enjoy.

Episode Overview

This episode explores three approaches to training for both strength and endurance: combining both in the same workout (popular in CrossFit-style training), alternating between strength and cardio on different days, and dedicating full weeks to each attribute. The hosts discuss the pros and cons of each method, examining which approach works best for different goals and personality types. They emphasize that consistency and enjoyment matter more than finding the 'perfect' program, and share personal experiences with each training style.

Full Transcript

Transcript of 3 Ways to Build Muscle and Endurance (How you Should Approach your Training) | Mind Pump 2801 from Mind Pump Show. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

building strength and muscle and getting endurance and stamina. They compete. What does that mean? The more you focus on one, the less you get of the other one. But what if you want both? What if you want endurance, stamina, muscle, and strength? How should you approach your training? Well, there's three ways you can approach your training. We're going to break down all three of them. Talk about the value of each and why each one might be beneficial for you or not. Let's go. Which one wins?

Yeah, this um I know that I know we'll get to it that you're experimenting with this right now. Um but was was this a recent study that they did this when they compared all three of these? There's actually more studies uh on this. So I've looked up um uh recently I looked up studies that compared these and uh what they find is results are either similar or a little better for certain versions, but it depends on what you're looking for. If you just want the physical attributes, then there's better options.

If you want the physical attributes to apply to a particular skill, then there's other options that are better. In other words, like if you want to get better at a particular skill like cycling, running, or playing a sport, sure, there's a better way to approach it. it. it. If you want uh you know, if you like enjoy a workout a particular way, there's value in other ones. And then if you just want to do it because you don't really care about the skill acquisition as much as you like the physical attributes, overall endurance, overall strength, then there seems to be a better option.

And then of course our trainer minds, this is the part that I'm looking forward to is where we can go in and kind of speculate on the kind of person that would uh enjoy each one of these versions because ultimately that's what matters, right? It's is your consistency over time. And and I think that's the questions that I have for you uh as we after we get through these is and it's early right now I know for you but it'll be interesting to see if you find that the approach that you're doing which is obviously research shows that the way you're going about it is the best way for what you're trying to accomplish.

to accomplish. to accomplish. But then to back to your point about the trainer brain if you know if you find it it's actually more difficult to be consistent with it. Yeah. It doesn't matter, right? Then it's like then then go with the other one of the other. Totally. So, there's three main ways to do this. Now, this is just overgeneralizing because the workout programming is much more specific than this, right? There's also what happens in the workout is very important. But generally speaking, there's three main ways you can approach uh this uh this problem.

One is you train both strength and endurance in the same workout. The second option is you do different workouts. So Monday may be strength and then Tuesday may be endurance and so on. So alternating in the same week. And then there's a third option which is uh probably the least known maybe even the least popular where it's one week focused on strength, one week focused on endurance. So you it's like totally broken up. broken up. broken up. Um and so those are the three main ways.

And so let's break down each of them and kind of talk about you know what their value may be and who they may work for. So I guess with the first one, the same workout. Um, and this to me when I think of this, this typ this reminds me of uh like CrossFit style training training training or what people would label as conditioning or something like that. I think it's the most um I I would the most popular. I've seen it the most with like hybrid athletes or like people that are like trying to gain and acquire both these attributes.

I see that they just they sort of merge them both into the same workout primarily. I can also see where where where this this is probably it'd be interesting to see if we could compare all these all these all these the the easiest to be consistent with cuz you're you're you're already there. And so let's say you're you're inconsistent with the days on which you show up to the gym. And so if you have thought this thought process of oh I'm going to have these endurance days.

I'm going to have these training days. It's like this and it's like, oh, what happens when I miss one or the other versus versus versus whether I make three days this week or five days this week, every session looks like a blend of the two of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I bet there's a big argument for even though this is probably of the three, it's the least uh successful way to go about this, it may be one of the more consistent or successful ways. successful ways.

successful ways. Yeah, I mean, I I see your point. I can I can see how that would work. especially if you're somebody that really hates one and likes the other one. You might end up missing the ones you hate more often, right? right? right? Uh although for me it's a little different, which we'll get to. Um so I can see that. I could also see like if you're in a sport that requires both at the same time, you're going to need to practice that skill. Uh in other words, if let's say you compete in CrossFit, okay?

Um part of your CrossFit training is going to be good is going to be getting good. It's not just to be strong in endurance. It's going to be getting good at competing in the event. And the event itself often times combines everything in one. in one. in one. Well, I think this too is part of uh I see this a lot like it they get attracted to the event style and then the event becomes the training. Yes. So there's no separation of that. There's no improvement on each aspect of it.

It just like you're so focused on the enjoyment and the experience of the event that you bring that in the workout and then it doesn't really you can't really decide what's working. Not only that, that you're that that type of person also uh is only getting in shape when they're signed up for the event. It reminds me of like my clients that were like the marathon the marathon runners, right? Like you know, hey, I need to get in shape, so I signed up for a marathon.

It's like it's like that that is all was all they needed to have this end goal that and that would get them back into working out for that period of time and then what would inevitably happen? Marathon would happen and then afterwards they would fall off the wagon and then that that just repeat the cycle. In my experience too, there's another kind of person that would probably like this and that's the person that views or enjoys the enjoys the enjoys the they like the sweat uh they like the conditioning part of the workout itself.

Like for them a workout is that these kind of people had a tough time in my experience. I can think of a person who has a tough time with just strength training. Yeah. Like this is boring. Too bored. bored. bored. I got to rest. Uh you know and and now when I used to train people I'd force them to do it cuz I'm training you. Uh so I can make it enjoyable by hanging out with you. But there's a lot of people where you know this is what they this is why they work out.

They like the workout part of it. That the part that makes them feel like they're struggling and having a tough time. And so blending it together to them uh is what they enjoy doing. Now, this is far less specific. Um uh but again, if if this is how you enjoy training and especially if you're competing in a way that combines all this, there's going to be a component of needing to combine it all because that's what your competition is going to ask. Well, I just I was thinking of the person that classifies themselves as I'm in shape.

Yeah, like this in shape people like really gravitate towards this merger of like strength training and endurance like combined. Totally. Now, one of the detriments of this uh is the you're not separating you're not reaping the max benefits of either. either. either. Yeah. And and not only that, but you're not separating the mental um aspect of each. What I mean by that is there's a mental approach and understanding that goes with strength training and it's a very different one that than there is for conditioning or endurance.

It's a very different approach. Um, and and sometimes it's hard uh for people to or or should I say it's better to separate them so they can understand what strength training should feel like because that's all I'm doing and then they understand what you know stamina endurance training feel like cuz that's all I'm doing. When you kind of blend it all together, it's like eating a dish with three different courses on it and you put them all on one fork and eat it. Like you're not really experiencing the steak by itself or the vegetables by themsel or the starch by themselves.

you're kind of getting this blend of all three, which is okay. Uh, but you don't really ever develop the real understanding of just the steak or just the vegetables or just the This is 100% who I was for the first like 10 years of lifting for me. And I wrestle a lot with um like what version of me of me of me Oh, I see. do I do I prefer or do like like like better, you know, and you know, funny. We had we had a challenge.

I'm sure it'll go up on social media soon here. uh where the staff uh tried to get us to balance on a V-bar and uh we all failed and we all we all failed and uh I and just like Justin I got I got really frustrated and why I got really frustrated because that was the type of stuff I I used to do I used to incorporate a lot of that [ __ ] into my workouts totally workouts totally workouts totally you know what I'm saying and not for any other reason that that say I could do it and stuff like that and yeah it was cool it was fun um I trained a lot like this where super setting and circuits and and then other days doing pio and I mean I just again remember I talked about how you know I took a lot of pride and no workout ever looked the same and I was really overall fit but I definitely wasn't the strongest I'd ever been.

I wasn't the most aesthetic I'd ever been but I was overall fit and so and I and I think back to the all those attributes that I had and there's some of them that I I miss and I want to get back. You know what I'm saying? And I think especially when we get it gets highlighted like that, like I can do this and I should be able to do this. Um, but then I also go, yeah, you know, I do like that I've put on a lot of muscle and I've gotten really strong and I have a way better aesthetic physique than than that kid did training way like I trained way less, look better and stronger than the than that guy who was training his ass off.

And ironically, that guy wanted what I have today. But I trained the the wrong way to do it and I had all those other attributes. So I wrestle with that a lot of times because there are some benefits to training to training this way. Totally. But it it and I think the most important thing to communicate and I think where we come from because we've trained so many clients is most clients come to you with a a aesthetic goal. They they want to change their they want general health, general fitness, but they want the aesthetic.

Yeah. They want to look better. Of course they want to feel better. Of course they want to have some sort of endurance and stamina. Of course that's part of that. Um but they really are like I don't like to look the way I look and the way I feel. feel. feel. And And And but it's look up the top. Exactly. And and so when we communicate, we always communicate from that because that's a that's 90% of the people are looking for that. So the people that always grumble when we talk about this and and they're like I love my crossfit or I love this weight train.

I'm not talking to you. Mhm. You represent the 10% or less that never miss workouts, love training this way, was the 25year-old version of me, and I get it. So, like, train your way if you want to, but if you come to me, if that same person came to me and goes, "But man, I really want to develop my delts more and I wish I look like this." There's an objectively better way better way to go about it to do it. Yeah. So, we just have to highlight that.

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Back to the show. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, the next option is different workouts. So, one day would be strength training, one day would be endurance or cardio. Now, this I typically the people that tend to employ something like this either really like strength training or really like endurance and it just looks different.

If you really like strength training, it's typically strength training focused with some cardio thrown in on off days. And these are the aesthetically driven people. They want to get lean. They like sculpting their body. Uh bodybuilders sometime pre-contest is what their routine looks like. It's like I lift and then I do a little cardio. Uh and sometimes and oftentimes are on different days. Uh and then you have endurance athletes. I trained a lot of clients like this where they were either triathletes or marathon runners. Most of the workouts during the week were endurance for them and then there were a day or two where it was just strength training strength.

Yeah. strength. Yeah. strength. Yeah. And so this is this is a good approach. Now you can have a balanced approach as well, but I think this approach is good for people who are focused more on one versus the other because then it's just which one I devote more time to and the other one plays more of a supporting role than uh you know playing the main actor in this particular movie. Uh, and again it's like now you can mix it all up but again which one do you want more of?

I think this allows. Yeah. The only downside I think is you get kind of in rhythms and to shift your intention like going from one specific thing to the next which we'll get into the other version but I think that that might be one uh thing to point out is is like each workout itself you have to kind of gear yourself psychologically and kind of prep yourself a little differently. Well, after we share the third one and then S goes in to share his story. I'm going to share with you how I've been doing things which is closer to this, but it's a modified version of that.

And so, I'm really interested to get to the third one, share what you're doing and how you're going about it. And then I'll tell you what I've been doing now for several weeks now. And uh it's kind of a modified version of this. And so, we'll get to that. Okay. So, then you have this third version which is far less known and less popular. Uh but this occurred to me after reading a study where they compared different ways of training for endurance and strength. And one of the ways that they train these athletes volume is equated for by the way was one week strength, one week endurance.

It actually outperformed for both endurance and strength. The physical attributes or the physical expressions of both. What I mean by that is if you have a specific skill that you want to apply this to, it's probably not a good way to train because if I'm getting good at running or trying to be good at swimming, I need to practice that often. I don't just need endurance. You can have tons of endurance, but if your skill is off, uh, then endurance not going to apply very well because you're not efficient with your movement.

But if you just want general endurance and strength, what the study showed was one week focus on one, one week focus on the other. and it seems to be a a better approach. Now, here's why I'm doing this. I and I could see where this would apply to a lot of people who struggle with falling in love with one of these attributes. Like I like training for endurance and stamina. I I could care less. It's boring. I'm not getting a pump. I'm not getting jacked. I'd much rather be lifting weights.

Okay. Uh, but if I give myself a full week of this is all I'm focusing on, next week I'll get back to my lifting. So, I'll look forward to that, but I'm going to wait till next week. What it allows me to do is have a full week of getting into it. There's momentum behind momentum of really trying to really appreciate what I'm getting from it. Really appreciate the mental effects, the physical effects, see the endurance build up uh towards the end of the week and know that I'm not going to lose uh more muscle doing it this way.

It would be the same things if I did it alternating days. It's just I'm in it. And and this reminds me of the way we phase our strength training programs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you can do a a day of low reps, a day of high reps, a day of moderate reps in the same week. But the reason why we typically have a block of each is because each one of those is a different mental approach. Like lifting in the under five reps, different approach than lifting at 12 reps.

And if you stay in it for 3 weeks, you get good at it. You get good at the mental part of what this should feel like. So that's why I'm doing it this way. It's it's really just that like I know if I just have a week of endurance, I can just be focused on it and know next week I'll be learn and I'm just going to start to try to enjoy it. I should say there's there's another way to frame that or say that I think and I think I think you can identify with this too is I I also see huge benefits for somebody who admits that they have an addiction to either one of those.

That's right. That's right. That's right. So either it's because it forces you to break up with that every week. That's what I'm doing. So it's like and and actually commit to the opposite for at least a little while before you can go back. And so what a great way and and use either side, right? So let's say you're the person who's just like always got to run marathons and you always run you you you and those exist, right? There's a lot of those people um and they just struggle with the weight training.

This idea of like you you get a week of that, but then you got to go over to this side and you got to let go of that. And so I think for that person and then to to what you've been sharing your journey of like knowing that you have this pull to it, it's like that forces you to break up with that every single week. And so I think there's a lot of value totally um to that that for that person. Totally. I could see that.

So what were you doing that you said? So I So I'm doing something kind of like it it's it's uh not always but sometimes in different workouts. I um I care mostly about uh the way I look, body fat percentage, more the aesthetic, right? I've always talked about that. Um but over, you know, recently I've like, hey, I'm getting I'm going to be 45 this year. I I want to have some endurance and stamina, too. And so this has become a priority of me. Um, and so, and also if for the audience that hasn't been caught up to it's like we've talked about you and I a lot off air speculating on like, you know, why do I get injured a lot when I get back in the in the the rhythm of things?

And it's uh it's a blessing and a curse, right? I mean, I'm sure this pisses everybody off when I say like how I can put 20 pounds on in a month. Uh, sounds awesome, but also ends up leading to a lot of nagging of muscle, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Of issue, right? Um, and so and I'm I'm here again. So, what I've been doing is I I I'm I'm lifting weights to to change body composition as my main focus. But if I train like yesterday, I trained legs pretty pretty hard and I'm I'm definitely pretty sore today.

So now what I'll do is like the next day or two it'll be cardio. I'll take off weights completely. So, you're essentially doing this to slow down the the the the process of building strength and muscles, prevent injury. Yes. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And I'm also the way I'm also framing it in my head is like, oh, this is facilitating recovery, too, right? Moving moving blood flow. The mental part is so big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, that's part of me is just like, so I'm I'm reducing the the amount of lifting the weights.

I'm trying to increase uh some of this endurance training where I'm an hour on the elliptical or, you know, incline walking or something like that. Um, sometimes I do little moderate sprints to get to elevate the heart rate a little bit so I can so push that. But it I it's uh it's still geared around the strength training, but there's no like it's not like one day on, one day off when it's not like that. It's like I might get two days of lifting in a row, but then all a sudden I notice that like I'm a little stiff, I'm a little tight.

Okay, now I'm going to do Okay, now I'm going to do cardio and then and then I might do one day I might get up and be like, well, I'm still kind of feeling a little sore from that workout. I'm going to do another day. And and so there's been times where I've done three days in a row of cardio and then there's been times when I've done two or three days of strength training and I'm just kind of feeling how my body feels and when I feel like I've been pushing the weights and my body starting to talk to me a little bit.

It's like okay switch over. I go to the cardio way. And so it's kind of looked like that. The mental part is so important. Like I'll just tell you guys the just how hard it was for me today. So today's day one of cardio week, right? Not supposed to lift weights. Boy did I I did okay. I kind of failed. You know what I did? What' you do, bro? I did I had to do three set I had to do a couple sets. No, you didn't.

I did. I had to do a couple sets of weight. I literally did three sets. That's it. And then I went and and got on the treadmill. And now here's the deal. Here's the other side of the mental part. Which, by the way, I did that three set. I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm so It's so addict. It's wonderfully uh what's the word? The awareness around it is really painful. It's like, man, is this is it this bad?" But getting on cardio, I don't like, you know, cardio.

uh for the sake of the cardio, but I do like the fact that I can get into a zone. Yeah. And listen to a book or think or write. There there's a meditative aspect to it for sure. You can't do that with weights. I got to focus on lifting. No, cuz you can kind of zone out and you could really just get into the rhythm. Totally. Totally. Cuz again with weights like I'm under the bar like I That's what I like about the cardio. That's exactly it.

You have to lean into that. that. that. Totally. So, I put my headphones on. I'm listening to a book and 10 minutes into it, man. I'm into the book and I'm writing ideas and thinking like, "Okay, I could like it for this reason. These are the things that I could like it for." So, and this whole week, that's what I'm going to do. This whole week, I'm going to I'm going to go through a book and then look forward to next week when I get to go back and lifting.

Yeah. Go back and lift. Yeah. So curious to see how this goes for I'm I'm playing with the idea right now especially considering that we just launched grade eight of this like you know would be really cool and I don't want to mess with what you're doing right now but I think you should absolutely do what you're doing right now but afterwards you'd be such a great person to see do grade eight with the cardio. cardio. cardio. So literally you just do one exercise a day and then the rest is you know my fear is around to this is gonna be a great commercial for grade eight.

You know what my fear is around grade eight it will get me and let me explain before everybody go shut up. I'll get really strong. Yeah. Uh, and I start to get hurt once I go past a certain So that's why I think pairing it with cardio right afterwards will kind of tamper that cuz you're right cuz I think if you just ate and did one exercise and got really strong discard the fact that if you just hyperfocus on one thing that moves the needle a lot like how far you get.

Yes. you know, and it's just like it's such like a foreign concept like we need to overwhelm the body with all these things and, you know, get into this crazy like gauntlet workout. I I the reason why I love so much the great eight is because it when I think about what my last like I don't know how many years now has it looked like it's looked a lot like that. There's a lot of day I mean I I uh yesterday when I trained legs, you know, quote unquote hard, it was squats for five sets.

That was the hard part. Then I messed around on the leg extensions really just to kind of mock all the people that were talking [ __ ] I literally haven't done April. I haven't done leg extensions in so long. I'm not even that strong right now, dude. I'm like I'm I I only squatted 250. Okay. I'm doing 250 for reps for reps for reps and uh five sets. Five. I worked up to five sets, right? You lifted the stack. And then then I go over to leg extensions.

Stack the whole thing for 12 to 15 reps. And even after that, I did [ __ ] squats, dude. And I'm just like, the [ __ ] squats were hard. Oh, of course. course. course. You know what I'm saying? And and of course I I I posted about it because I know that that whole thing that this is the best way to use a ladies. This is the best way to use leg stitching machine stitching machine stitching machine and all and all the hey all the all the smart trainers breaking down the biomechanics of the quad rectus the attachment of the bron.

I'm like you guys everybody who argued that missed the point. I said take we take two two groups. One group for two years is only allowed to do one exercise for their leg development, leg extensions. Then go ahead and pick eight other leg exercises. Hack hack squats, front squats, Bulgarian split squats, walking lunges, step-ups. I mean, the list goes on. And those two groups, okay, they can only do those one exercises for four or five sets, whatever. Pick your sets. I don't care. and see who's got better quads in two years.

years. years. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, come on. Everybody know everyone. That's that's the point of it when we were ranking them is is thinking of that. Nobody and then you know you just you the real truth is everybody should do I said of course I'm doing them because it's easy. Yeah. Stop. Stop. Stop. I like to sit down. Yeah. I I know. You know what's the the real thing too is uh uh when it comes to fitness, we've said this before. When you really start to have fun with it and enjoy it, like perfect routines are great.

Okay, we write programs and I love creating perfect programs. But if you can enjoy fitness, if you really start to play with it and enjoy it, that's it. You got it forever. You you'll love it. If you love if you generally love fitness, and I used to have members like this in my gym who just I'm not talking about the bodybuilders or the freaks. I'm talking about people just love fitness. They were always the healthiest. Why? Because they just loved fitness and they could do all kinds of different things.

things. They would lift weights. They would do this. They would do that. It would would would go on and off. It's just all That's it. And then you have this, you have this like Swiss Army knife where you could pull out a a tool on the knife for whatever you need. I need a little more strength. Boom. Strength training. I need a little stamina. Boom. Mobility. I need a little mobility. I need a little this, a little that. I need something for more recuperative. Now you Now you're using fitness in a way that that values you.

I always come from a place of like the very minimalist attitude because attitude because attitude because in our experience uh even at the the most successful we ever were right so a decade after being coaches and when we probably all consider ourselves finally good coaches right it took a decade or whatever years whatever years whatever years yeah and so we're finally good coaches even at that at at peak coach Adam you still are only getting 30 to 40% of these people lifetime success which is a high percentage it's like it's like baseball.

Yes. And you're batting 300. You're Yeah. You're a Hall of Famer. You know what I'm saying? If 70% of your people fail, fail, fail, Yeah. you're doing good. Yeah. You're doing good. And that's And so, so my thought when I when I communicate exercise and fitness, I always go for like, man, if I could just get a people to do a couple of these movements. And that is the argument I always have when we get into these debates with other trainers that are 25 years old and and done all the certifications and understand anatomy so well and biomechanics.

It's just like, yeah, but what you need to understand is that 80 plus% of the population are going to struggle most of their life being consistent doing anything. And so, if I can just get those people to focus on maybe a handful of the best movements and learn to like them, learn to do them, practice them as a skill, figure out the figure them out, and then they just approach those, they are going to be pretty strong and fit. But if I argue and debate these things about EMG light up on the leg extension versus this and confuse the [ __ ] out of these people and and and the reason why I'm so passionate about it because I was a young 20-year-old reading all that stuff and I wasted a lot of time clients time.

Yeah. Clients and my own time doing this when I I would have been way better served getting good at my squats, getting good at my deadlifts, getting good at my ball game, getting good at these movements that really move the move the needle. I I would have been way better served. Way better. Speaking of controversial posts, uh the one where you and I, Adam, were talking about you asked me. Yes, dude. Yes, dude. Yes, dude. If you could I lost, by the way. I know. I lost.

You know, okay, so here's what the post was. The post was Adam asked me, "If you could change or implement one thing in commercial gyms, what would it be?" And I said, "A dress code." And and the controversy in the comments is silly uh about this. Look, everybody, I think people need to be reasonable. I've been in gyms since the early 90s, okay? As a kid all the way growing up. It's gotten crazy, you guys. It's gotten really wild. It's gotten cra It's gotten crazy everywhere.

First of all, I remember going to the beach. You'd never see thong bikinis. Now you go to the beach, everybody's wearing. So, this is just the trend of how people are. But gyms, it's and this is why I think now is the time. I think there's enough people where if you actually implement implemented a reasonable gym, you know, dress code, not like you got to wear a burka in sweats. Okay, everybody calm down. But, you know, just you you just you're not going to wear you you can't be, you know, showing your whole torso or something like that.

Like, I think you would get more members. Well, here's enough people that are like enough moms and dads and regular people who want to get fit who are like, "Yeah, I'd love to go to a gym where people aren't literally half naked, uh, you know, being distracting or trying to get looked at." Like, and that's the truth, by the way. If you go to the gym half naked, I don't care how it's so comfortable. Shut up. You want people look at you. That's the truth. And I think a gym dress code, everybody's already experienced this, right?

Like you go, it's PE class, like you have to have like a specific shirt and shorts and it's just like it was simple. Uh it was effective. Everybody was in there for a purpose. But I mean, yeah, I mean it again sound silly. So I Yeah, go ahead. I want to hear your argument. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean I obviously I I took the other side of this argument and I can argue your side and I and I let me first argue the way I actually think you believe because you obviously if you you know you well enough you know that you lean way more towards I mean more now conservative but you were still libertarian about this and so I think you're you're not saying we need legislation for legislation for legislation for I don't want Yeah.

where it's like it's law. law. law. No I don't want laws. this is a private gym like a consensus like everybody agrees like here's what this is a private gym even even then I don't I don't think you would uh you would want that all gyms have to do this I think what you would like to see is like a gym step forward and be like this is going to be how it is and I don't disagree with that cuz I think that then the market will dictate who's more right because I I think there will be and I think we kind of see this with um Planet Fitness is that Planet Fitness regulates what you can they're they're no stringers they're not I don't know that oh yeah I didn't know that oh yeah so then that's their whole pitch is you know for the gym for everybody.

Now, I think they took the other extreme and that's an example. They also got rid of exercises to get rid of and certain people. So, they I think they they went to an extreme uh version of that, but that that's kind of their their philosophy. So, and I think you could go the other extreme. I think you could be like, "Hey, we encourage shirtless people and and there'll be a bunch of people that go to that one." So, I really think that's the answer is, you know, allow the gym to do that and it'll attract the people that like that.

you know, it's just interesting to me because I don't like the So, I would say Bradley Martin's gym is the other extreme and I'm not a fan of that. No, like that's like it it's the culture. Even though even though I'm I'm the pro wear whatever you want to wear, I'm also like the the the dudes taking their shirts off and all the cameras all everyone video themselves and influencers like I I really I think I really do think if a commercial gym today had a reasonable dress code, I think they would do better.

I think there's a lot of people that are turned away from gyms because they feel uncomfortable. Moms and dads, you know how many the comments of of like moms were like, "Yeah, it makes me uncomfortable." And dudes were like, "Yeah, I don't really." And then people of course are hammering the guy. Well, if you can't control Well, if you can't control yourself, yourself, yourself, you could argue you could argue that you're right be based off of the growth of uh um what uh what's it called?

Planet Fitness. I mean, they're they're one of the fastest growing chains right now. and that that that they're designed to make people feel comfortable, right? If you're really overweight and you don't want to see a girl in a tube top and booty shorts and you don't want to see a guy in a stringer and stuff like that, like we're that. So, you could argue that that that it also look there's also the purist in me where uh I really love good pure fitness culture and good fitness gym culture is about fitness.

It's about camaraderie. It's about support. And yeah, you can have that with the half naked bodies also. But I think that gym culture, when you look at the toxic side, I hate using that word cuz that's such a misused term, but the toxic side of fitness culture is this like look at me, it's all about how I look, it's all about looking at each other, it's about checking each other out, heavy on the vanity. People will talk about gyms as a meat market. This is where that comes from.

Now, how do you make peace uh or reconcile that feeling that you have when you also simultaneously Pumping Iron's one of your favorite movies and that gym is the guys are taking their shirts off, they're in booty shorts and they're Well, that was a different that was a different time and let's be honest, those gyms were small and it was pros and so the culture is the culture. Uh I'm talking about the typical gym today, commercial gym, it's a commercial gym. I'm trying. So if I owned a commercial gym today, gym today, gym today, I mean that gym, if it could have been a commercial gym though, it would have been.

It just couldn't be. It was all different back then. It was such an outside of the, you know, the mainstream. mainstream. mainstream. I know. And it's but maybe that's what it is that that's why I'm trying to get like how do you reconcile that because of you've never spoke out of anything about that with that with that gym and that gym was okay. And they they took their shirt. They were barefoot, took shirts off, booty shorts, you know, slapping each other in the ass in the back.

They were doing all that, dog. Yeah, they did posing in the mirror and you know what I'm saying? And so there's all that, but it's now obviously it's grown to mainstream. These are commercial gyms and now it attracts a lot more people and so is it maybe more because you just see a lot more of it and it's and it's and it's I mean what cuz it's the same it's kind of the same thing. I think so. Oh, I don't like again I don't think there should be a law, but I think a gym today that that was really fitness forward that was clean, great equipment, great trainers.

The trainers make the culture, by the way. What I'm saying doesn't make the culture, okay? It's the trainers and the staff that make the culture, but that had reasonable dress code, I think would really serve the people that need this the most, which is the everyday average person that needs, you know, the 20some year old fitness fanatic. They don't they'll go work out. they'll go work out somewhere. But the, you know, the the the mom that has two kids, the dad that's working, the person who's overweight, like uh and again, reasonable.

You don't need to go wear a uniform. I don't think you should show up at a gym and be required to wear like some crazy uniform, but I do think some reasonable Look, I have a 16-year-old daughter. daughter. daughter. Like, you walk her would I want to walk in my 16-year-old daughter into some of these gyms? By the way, it's not half naked dudes that I don't want her around the the way some of these people are presenting themselves and she's 16 years old. I don't know if I like this cult.

It's funny that you know that you and I find ourselves in this argument and disagreement here because I was you and I also disagree on the the spanking thing yet I don't spank and I also my wife and I train train in hoodies. I'm we are in burkas. You know what I'm saying? We're fully birking out with Dre cuz that's my vibe is to be hoodied out covered like you know can't tell who I am type of deal and I'm hiding this thing underneath like that's you know what I'm saying but I also am like you know I mean what is like the thought process too of like some people that go in there it's a signaling of like a I'm you know it's a single energy and it's a it's a dating thing and it's like look at me like trying to attract like a potential person and so it's like yeah That's an interesting thought is like, well, where where does that person now, you know, go try to signal that?

Well, so, okay, I like this as a as a proargument to it. Um, because here's the thing is like this, and this I didn't find this out till way later in my dating is one of the things I love about Katrina is that she cares about health and fitness like I do. She's not obsessed with it, but she cares enough about it that there is this accountability piece that comes from my wife. Well, where's a better place than to find a woman like that than inside the gym, right?

And so I could understand this natural inclination to want to signal, you know, and present and be that and that's the best place to find each other attractive and stuff like that. So I and to be honest, if luckily I met So here, funny Katrina talks about how many times we'd seen each other in the gym. I never noticed her. Why? Cuz she's hoodied up. That's right. I could never I now I met her outside of that and then realized that she was like that she and so and I respect I love that she does that.

That's great. But I wouldn't have I wouldn't have picked her out inside the gym had she had we not met in business. It's also like okay how would you communicate this to your daughter and I'm speaking both to men and women. If my daughter wanted to go to the gym, wear a strapless tube top with tiny little shorts. I'm going to sit down with her and be like, "Honey, why are you dressing this way? You know, you want people to look at you. You want that attention.

Let's talk about that for a second. So, okay, that to me, and that's actually actually actually it's not about it's too hot in the gym and I need to be comfortable. You know, but here's the thing, though, too. And I would rather that I don't have a daughter, so I can't speak from that conversation. But if I did, I would rather me have the conversation with my daughter and she chooses that she but she has that option if she wanted to. And I like that. I like that because she's going to go to school and they're going to offer her drugs and sex and all these other things and I hope that as a father I teach her these things.

I'm not saying the gym raises my daughter. My point with what I'm saying is the conversation I would have with her is that is also an honest conversation you have with yourself. When you go to the gym and you are almost naked working out, it's not because it makes you comfortable. It's not all the lies. Shut up. See, that's the dad. You want people You want people look at you. That's the dad in you wants to come out and you want to listen I don't want to father anybody it's just an honest conversation cuz there were people commenting listen there were people commenting underneath well if you can't control yourself and it has nothing to do with me I don't care care care but I'm talking about the question was if for commercial if I owned a commercial gym today I think this is one of the things I would implement and I think it would be good for business I think it would be good for the culture I'm not going to force you dress however you want me walk in my private you walk into my house that way I'm going to kick you out so I would do the same thing in my gym my gym my gym And so again, it's just it's an honest conversation.

conversation. conversation. It's an interesting experiment. I think that it would do well and then there other ones would do well for like the more dating kind of totally environment. I think that you know there's room for that. I it's a big industry like there's plenty of options. Like I don't think that there there should be like I think it'd be fine to just define it. Here's what here's what our um you know code of ethics are and this is what our gym's culture is about and from a business sign up for it or not.

Also, from a business perspective, you'll love this, Adam. You you want to make a gym that actually is profitable, does well, has a big impact. Who are you going to cater to? The young kids who are coming in trying to hit on each other half naked or the middle-aged people who like, "No, I'm here to work out. Who's got more money to spend?" I feel like that's so I mean to me that's what uh when I think of what you're describing and I and I I I don't go enough big commercial uh gyms lately to to to even have much of a dog in this fight because I have I haven't experienced what you're saying like I think that when I go to like say a club one or club sport like it ain't like that.

that. that. No no that's that's rich old people expensive. Yeah. Yeah. And and when I go to like um I don't know I'd say when I go to like American barbell or golds I I think there's a healthy balance of it. I don't think it's like extreme or or crazy. I have seen extreme though. I've been to like uh those ones in LA or Vegas. Yeah. I've been to Las Vegas and I've seen and been Bradley seen and I've seen and been Bradley Martin's jail probably.

I went there once with my wife and cuz her family's in Vegas and we went there to work out with her brother and her sister-in-law. And it's I think it's just Vegas culture too. Like too. Like too. Like Well, I mean that's where all the strippers work out. So I mean and they are advertising. I mean it is business. That's true. You know, so so I can't hate on that. It's like that that's what they do for a living. And it's like best way to get customers to come pay me at my job is to see my body when I work out.

And so I understand, but I so I like I'm not and but I'm not the biggest fan. I wouldn't again want my daughter growing up in that in that and stuff like that. But I also would teach her that. Uh, and I feel like I the thing that I don't like I think we're I agree with you or probably what we have in common is that that same guy or girl who dresses like that and gets attention that maybe they don't is like inappropriate or they don't like too much.

It's like well you're bringing that on by doing that. And so I also you play a role too and everybody that's so that that's like it doesn't excuse the dirt bag. No, no, that's not what I'm saying by that. But I'm saying like you you if you put yourself out there, this is a conversation I had with my I have with my daughter. If I had a daughter, I say, "Hey, if you do this, know that there's dirt bad guys out there. They're going to be gawking at you.

They might be taking videos of you. They're they're probably going to approach you when you're trying to work out. So, understand that." And what you're you're you're looking for an opportunity. That's right. And and and so that's just reality. And that and that's so it's like if you're going to do that you to complain complain about that is another thing. It's just like there's a real easy solve to this and it's not like somebody commented something hilarious underneath cuz somebody wrote oh you're just talking about the women and then this guy's like you know what if I went to the gym wearing what you guys were wearing you guys would kick me out hell fast like it's true if a dude walked in there with tight little shirt with his junk.

He made my wife beater. Yes. I said what about nipple type wife beater? I said asking for a friend. You know I haven't no moose knuckles. You know I haven't worked on that in a while. while. while. Really? No. Really? No. Really? No. Good for you. No. And it's because my my Well, it promotes that. No, my inter my security is a little bit better. It's an insecurity thing, right? All of it is. It's like you want to show your muscle. your muscle. your muscle. I know that so well because that was me, dog.

I was I did that for years. For years, I wore three t-shirts. Wife beat her, regular t-shirt, another t-shirt. Makes you bigger. Yes. And then I get Aaron up Yes. And then I get Aaron up in the gym. Layer after layer comes up. By the time I'm Yeah. Yeah. I know, dude. You know, that's a thing now. I know. I know. I know. The pump cover is a thing. That's what they call it. Yeah. There's a term for it. It's a top shirt. There's a term there's a term for something we've been doing for 25 years when we work out and they call it a pump cover and stuff like that.

like that. like that. Totally. Totally. Anyway, I was going to ask you, Adam, you've been having the uh the Hule uh meal replacement like crazy. Almost daily. Almost daily. Almost daily. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm I'm This is the first time I've seen you consume anything that's a a meal replacement that's entirely like there's no It's all plant-based. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you always And you're like a like a, you know, I say you have like the palette of a child. It doesn't taste super good.

You won't have it. have it. have it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you like Well, dude, I had they have a I mean, the strawberry banana flavor is bomb. They have a chocolate peanut butter flavor that's bomb. They've got a coffee one. Have you had the coffee one yet? No. No. No. Yeah. Have you had the coffee one yet? We only had a couple in there and I I had them and I'm like, man, where they all at? Because we've only had I haven't seen more of them.

We have more of the other ones. other ones. other ones. Uh and that's my favorite one that I've had and we I haven't seen it come back in our refrigerator in in a while. So, those are what I like is this, and we've talked about this before. Uh I if I do a certain amount of whey or dairy in my diet, um I'm fine. But when I'm really trying to push and hit my protein intake, it's almost always in the diet in order to kind of get there.

And I just digest that way better. And so if I just break it up and so I make sure that that one of my sources is coming from that instead of like two sources of whey or dairy. or dairy. or dairy. It's really easy to digest. Very easy. Very easy. Very easy. Yeah. Really easy. Very. And so I like it post-workout. Post-workout. Post-workout. Post-workout. Oh, cuz it's got carbs, too. And it's already loaded. It's good. Yeah. It's a meal replacement. I can I can get it right afterwards.

And so yeah, I've Yeah. kind of kind of enjoyed it, dude. Yeah. Yeah. I did I did not see I've seen like I've never seen you consume that consistent of shakes ever. I also am such a you the ready to drink. I've even even in my you don't like adding powder to water. Yeah, dude. I know the shaker cup thing is just I mean I did it for a very long time. So did it I did it for a very long time. So I absolutely was the shaker cup guy.

You know I'm the one that came up showed you guys the tip on that. That was Oh yeah. Tell everybody. Dude that is if you are a shaker cup person the worst part about shaker cups is the nasty protein smell. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. When it Oh, you have to throw away the there. Yeah. It's disgusting. can walk. You can't you can't scrub in your car in the sun. Throw in the garbage. garbage. garbage. There's a massive hack for that. The minute that you finish that, you literally and you don't even have to do a good job of rinsing.

You literally pour it out, rinse it real, throw it, and you throw a paper towel inside it and close it, throw it in your gym bag. Absorbs everything. Absorbs everything. Absorbs everything. It absorbs everything and it'll keep it from ever getting stinky. That was I forgot who taught I wish I could give the credit to who it was, but was in my bodybuilding days. Um, it works. it works. it works. It's magical. It works great. If you leave your shaker cup from the morning till evening, sometimes it ruins.

Yes. Especially if it was sealed Especially if it was sealed and it wasn't rinsed. Thrown multiples out. Yes. And so all you do is you got to just throw a paper towel in there and then it'll it'll absorb it all in there and it will not stink. Speaking of calories and stuff, do Okay, so we all have foods that we just like we want to overeat, right? overeat, right? overeat, right? Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Uh and for me, I've talked about French fries before, fries before, fries before, dude.

It's the ones from In-N-Out. I I can't stop. Those are No, no, no. Listen, listen. Those are delicious. Listen to me. I listen, we've been going we went to In-N-Out now a few times with my family and I'll order two fries. I always get two fries and my kids never finish theirs. My niece doesn't finish hers. My wife, Bro, listen. I ate five fries. Five. Five. Five. Oh my goodness. In a row, bro. bro. bro. In a row. And I was like thinking to myself, I'm like I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to stop.

I'm going to stop." And I couldn't stop. It was too You're so in that place right now that I remember one, you've you've he guts. I think they put a lot of I think they put drugs in. You've healed your gut, so you you feel a lot better. So you don't have that natural regular you have and you've built so much muscle that you could power through stuff like that and not get super fat. If you were getting fat, like you would actually slow down. I know you if you if you were getting fat from it, you would slow down.

You call me fat. This reminds me of my daily gelato kick that I was on peak bodybuilding. You know what I'm saying? When I was 240 and like 7% body fat, I was eating gelato every day. every day. every day. But you're like this with ice cream, right? If it's in front, you'll just eat it. Oh yeah. Until it's gone. Gone. Gone. Gone. Yeah. See? Yeah. See? Yeah. See? Gone. Yeah. No. Like you won't stop because it hurts. You'll just keep going. No. Actually, I mean that until it actually hurts.

I will I will pass. Yeah. I'll pass full until it it starts. Like how much will it like go to? An like a gallon? Oh, no. I I could put a whole the whole, you know, the whole carton thing. Wow. Is that a gallon? No. I No, it's not a gallon. Gallon's the big one. A quart. A quart. A quart. No, it's more than a quart. What's What's the thrifty's ice cream thing like that? Yeah, I could put a whole which is like I think 3,000 3,000 calories worth of ice cream.

Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. No, I could do that. That's a lot. Right now I couldn't do that. But I I peak peak metabolism when I was like like where you're at right now where you're saying you could eat five fries. I could eat a whole I couldn't believe it though. I just kept eating and my kids are like I don't roll switch dude cuz I can't eat anything when you guys are describing without feeling the pain of it. Yeah. It just I can't dude. I can't eat like all the fun crazy stuff.

I'll eat little bits. bits. bits. Did you do the parasite? Die later. Die later. Die later. Have worms. Did you get the first one yet? yet? yet? You got to do it, dude. Adam did it. I did it. You got to do it, dude. Maybe. But I I mean, it's You just got to stop cheese, dog. Stop cheese. That's all you got to do. Hurry. Hurry. Hurry. I'm just going to just blame it on the one condition that's refuses. Do you Do you Is that What is it for you, Justin?

Where you fits in front of you? Is it just still is it cheese for real? real? real? Well, I always eat cheese, so that's Yeah, we don't even care. How many How much is that, Doug? Yeah. Court and half. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, yeah, I can put a quart and half. That's 3,000 calories. Yeah. Yeah. Good God. Yeah. You know, you know, you know, talk, we always talk about stuff that like stems from childhood. It's like childhood [ __ ] right? And we didn't have it. I remember like like I I have a lot of blurry memories.

One of like my biggest memories is I moved out when I was 17, got my own apartment. And I remember the first time I went grocery shopping. My freezer was my freezer was literally nothing but frozen burritos and freaking ice cream, dude. And that's all that was in there. And I remember cuz I couldn't do it. My parents wouldn't let me do it as a kid. I would I would open up the container and sit in front of the TV and I just sit there and eat the whole thing, dude.

Eat the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the worst part was I played basketball. I did all these active things so I could get away with it. It's like it was the worst thing that could happen to me. Like I I know that if it if if it put a ton of weight on me, it would have it would have like I would would have I feel like there was like two or three years where it was just Costco. Like I only ate Costco. Like bagel dogs.

Uh what are those like bagel bites? Yes. Yes. Yes. butter pops and like Yeah. ice cream. That was it. And it was like Yeah. That there was like like like frozen burritos, the bagel bites, and Hot Pockets, I lived off of for years, dude. dude. dude. Oh my god. I used to eat a hot pocket. Terrible. You know why? Cuz they sell you on how healthy they how many grams of protein are in there. Look at how many grams of protein are in there. I remember when I realized if you ate a pound of pasta, it was like 40 g of protein.

protein. protein. Raviolis. A can of raviolis, dude. I remember that. remember that. remember that. Eat it all in. I only eat a pound of pasta. It's on the sheep. Let's go. Hey, what did you guys uh what did everybody do for um Valentine's Day? Valentine's Day? Valentine's Day? Oh, good. So, Jessica made it this fun holiday for the kids. So, they all came downstairs. They had a little Valentine's Day day gift. Uh she set up the table with like hearts and and uh I got chocolate covers.

It was really nice. So, she's like she wants to start this tradition. And then I got her a gift. I was going to get her something else. I won't say it on air cuz I'm going to hold that for another time. But one thing I love, so my wife's into working out and so what's cool about that is I can get her fitness gifts without it being like offensive. Like typically you buy your wife like a workout like something for exercise, you always like run the risk of like, "Okay, are you saying I'm fat?

Like what's the deal?" You know what I mean? Hey honey, I got you this new machine. You know, this new this dumbbells. But she loves Right. She loves it. And we have the big we have our big garage. And so um I got a You guys know that row machine I got recently? recently? recently? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So love it. That same company. I'm not going to mention them because they don't sponsor us, but they got some I got a standing uh abductor machine. Have you ever seen standing abductor machines?

machines? machines? We know. We know. We know. So, you know, adductor machines, waste of time, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's ones where you stand and you squat down and press your legs out and and it really hits and isolates the glutes as a way to to emphasize connection. connection. connection. Interesting. Can you load yourself while you do it? You could load. Yeah, there's weight on it. You could load. Yeah, but that's only on the abduction or adduction position. It doesn't matter. to push down and out as you come out.

Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. And Brett Contrarus is he constantly posts about these standing hip huing machines. I've never used them before, but I know enough about exercise and the body to know what something will feel like. And they saw I saw one for the house uh for like your home gym. So that's what I got. Oh, did you try it? Did you? No, I just ordered it. I haven't got it. So I haven't used it. So that's why I got it for for Okay. Yeah, we went up to Half Moon Bay.

I love that. Uh and it it kind of doubled up. Well, it definitely doubled up. It was like my birthday present. that was like, you know, like he's like Valentine's Day, birthday present. birthday present. birthday present. I really was like, we're smashing both these together. At this point, you waited too long. So, you know, we're just going to just make it a celebration. celebration. celebration. So, I get credit for Valentine's Day also. also. also. Exactly. I get credit for this. Uh, so yeah, we enjoyed that.

But it was I mean brought our own we like to do it so it's like we have our own kind of setup so we don't really have to leave and and uh so yeah I had had a couple bottles of Romi and uh and uh and uh it was uh made sure this time to bring some Ziotics and all that. We were like set dude so I didn't have any of the ramification of that. The next day we so we had a great time. When it's just you and your wife uh like how much because obviously when you're in your 20s you just go hard with drinking too far or whatever.

What how what does that average out to if you guys are hanging out just two of you and you're drinking? Is it like four glasses? glasses? glasses? I mean, it's probably like it's probably like a bottle and a half total. Total. total. Total. total. Total. Oh, that's that's not too bad. Over the course of like a That's not a lot. A bottle is only four glasses. And so we're not like crazy. Yeah. Like you said, we're not like raging teenagers. Enjoy like the scenery. Wait, you get to ask me but you Hey, but the zonotics made it makes a difference.

It made a bit cuz I'm not like with wine. I enjoy the flavor. I enjoy the taste, but like it usually gives me like I I I definitely uh feel like headaches all the Yeah, dude. It just it doesn't sit well with me usually. Does it? Does it? Does it? Does Courtney like the Zox also? Does she use it too? She does, too. Yeah, cuz Yeah. And the thing is like we like to be out and about and like go places. We don't want to be like h just like stay in bed all the day, you know?

out out and doing a bunch of stuff and we went to some place where it's like I had to endure so there's like natural like plants gardening places and stuff and so I'm like you know the the husband that's like you know what is this and like I'm trying to trying to pronounce like all these Latin names and stuff like what kind of hocus pocus wizardry is this that we're buying you know it's like anyways anyways anyways that's where you act interested I act interested like I'm like yeah this wow this is only you know grows in this kind of native climate cool you know so but it yeah we had a good time good time good time you saw your bag pipes too yeah yeah I love that place for that it's just it brings those those vibes of like when we were in Scotland um it's it definitely brings that here and uh it that's a cool feature feature feature have you done that yet?

Have you gone to one of those? Both Half Moon Bay and uh Spanish Bay both do that? No, we went and I've never done that. No. So cool. Yeah, it's cool. You get a room right there and and they play that and when at the sunset, so you're watching the sunset come down the ocean and the and the bag pipes goes the whole coastline. So for like an hour he's When I hear bag pipes, I can't help but think Braveheart the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like it feels like war. Oh, hell yeah. Well, yeah. It's like a c I think you know it's a weird thing. I thought about this because this because this because each culture kind of has like a distinctive instrument and like kind of like music and uh so bag pipes for me it hits like it you know it's like a like almost like a tearing effect. I swear to God. Yeah. And I doesn't happen with me. I think of Adam and I'm like you know pula like pula like pula like mariachi.

mariachi. mariachi. Yeah. Well you get both. Yeah, you get like the German and the Mexicans use dude they it's paired I don't get tearful when I I don't get tearful when I hear an accordion you know here yes you do what's that song I told you I listen to I drive that's famous what's that who's that artist that artist that artist tell me you I know you even I feel that I'm not Italian I'm like that's the equivalent equivalent equivalent I turn it all the way up drive with my windows down windows down windows down yeah of course you are bro you're driving an Italian car that's why I feel it though You know what I'm saying?

It just feels right. It just It feels right. feels right. feels right. What did you do? What did What did you do? What did you guys do? Uh we had uh we had Jay and Jason uh and Danielle over and I I cooked I cooked I cooked for everybody. I um prepped my uh Katrina wanted my baby back ribs and so I did baby back ribs. Made a baked bean uh homemade thing that I did and then um and then they brought some stuff and then we zioticked it up and then drank.

But ours looked a little bit different than a bottle and a half. I mean, Katrina alone put three bottles of champagne down. Yes, bro. She has extra livers, doesn't she? Yes. Yes. Yes. How does she Okay. And she doesn't do the She occasionally. She can do Ziotic, dog. She did not do it. I did. People could just process. She It's It's a It's a It's in jeans, dude. You can do I cannot Oh god, I would die. Yeah, that was She had three bottles of champagne and then her and Danielle cracked another bottle of white wine.

That's how that we finished the night. Oh my god. Insane, dude. Absolut absolutely insane. And you wouldn't know like cuz she she keeps herself pretty composed. I I mean until she came down in the Britney spill his outfit and then I realized like your mom's in the house and you just came down. down. down. Yeah. I was like was like dude like then I real Yeah. Then I realized Yeah. Then I then I realized how tipsy she was. I was just like, you know, your mom is upstairs in in the room and you just walk downstairs in that outfit like go upstairs.

Hold on. I'll be there in a minute. So I'm like, "Okay, this is what three bottles looks like." What do you say to get everybody out or you just like, "Hey, Danielle had just left and I was downstairs doing dishes and stuff like that." And my mom So my mother-in-law stayed the night and her and Max, they went up to bed, watched movies in the spare room or whatever like that. So they were they had been in bed for a few hours. We stayed up drinking by the fire, watching Nate Barazi, laughing, having a good time.

So that and the kitchen was a disaster. I can't go to sleep. I cannot have a good night with with a dirty dishing. dishing. dishing. Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm going to just let me straighten up a little bit and stuff like that. And so I'm downstairs and here she comes down. Britney Spears out, bro. And I'm like, yes, dude. She's like, come to bed. And I'm like, uh, you know, your mom is like literally now. Do you leave the dishes or you just wash faster?

I wash faster. Yeah. Cuz I can't I still can't. Yeah, dude. Yeah. It's like I'm I'm getting I'm getting I'm done. Don't worry. She's like, hurry cuz I'm going to fall asleep. I'm No, you won't. I'll be up there in just a minute. You know what I'm saying? So So yeah, if you open the dishwasher, there's like food clumped all over the food. You know what I'm saying? I didn't do a good job of spraying everything down. But down. But down. But is there an outfit like my my wife if she wears she wears she wears I've never seen that one.

That was a new husband. Obviously that was that was that's my wife if she wears like a long like uh like flowy dress if she has an apron on barefoot and she's doing anything in the kitchen. I don't understand what happens to me. That sounds biblical. I just don't I was like I lose my mind bro. And if she has no makeup on on top of it, she thinks I'm lying. She's like no you don't really. So listen, you try that. that. that. That's the hippie dippy in you.

Something, dude. That's hilarious. Something there. She's in the, you know, she's in the kitchen making food. I'm like, oh god. I'm like tall tall socks and short shorts. shorts. shorts. Okay. Well, that's I mean, yeah. yeah. yeah. I mean, mine's pretty any skirt. Yeah. Yeah. Tennis skirt is like There's nothing that I can put on though that'll do that. You know what I mean? I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. Yeah. There's nothing. Yeah. They don't What? Whatever, bro. We shirtless and a tool belt for you.

That's true. That is like a home run. Yeah, but you can't just walk out. You have to actually do something. Yeah, you got to actually fix things. Have you pretended yes? Have you just walked out with a tuba and just carried a 2x4? a 2x4? a 2x4? No, but you know, I saw a hack. It was funny. I saw this guy, this dad hack who actually he ended up going in and like like loosening bolts and things ahead of time and was and then like would turn the water off and was just like, "Oh, the toilet's not working." Like, oh man, better go get, you know, the tool val.

He goes and grabs it. Yeah, I'm going to need some beverages. And like like his little daughter's coming in, giving him like drinks and stuff. He's like, "Oh, thank you, honey." Like, "This is so hard." And he's he's he's sapping the pipe with the hammer. He's going to hack the system. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gets all the praise. Oh, it's great. Hey, I found a uh a new show and for some reason I thought I um had looked at the preview and I didn't think it was going to be that good.

Katrina and I both from different friends had the recommendations and we're like, you know, maybe we should we'll turn it on. We'll watch it. really good. It's on Apple TV. Uh, shrinking with uh Harrison Ford and the guy from Yes Man. I forget his name. He does more comedic movies. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about. about. about. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I love you, man. Yeah. Yeah. I love You Man. That's what it is. Not Yes, Man. I love you, man.

Uh that that guy, I forget his name. And and Harrison Ford. And it's uh a very well-ritten uh com comedy short, really good. It's on season three. I think it's season 3 right now. And uh we and the only reason why we turned it on was cuz we literally had like three different people tell us like, "Have you guys not seen it?" We're like, "Oh, we saw it on Apple. We didn't we didn't watch it or they're like, "Oh my god, it's so good." Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And so uh funny cuz we went to go watch it and it was it's ranked number one right now on Apple and uh watched it and it's really good. It's really It's really It's really Yeah. That that new Game of Thrones show, show, show, Jason Seagull, that's his name. Seagull. Yeah. Seagull. Yeah. Seagull. Yeah. I refuse to watch anything until I see if they're not on the epine list. I don't know, man. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Watch TV. Watch TV. Watch TV. He won't be able to watch any TV.

Exactly. You get Mr. Rogers and he's good. good. good. Everybody Everybody reruns. Makes me love Mr. Rogers even more now, dude. It's like jeez, dude. I wish uh that's the type of person that should be taught in history class. His story is I It's been a long time since uh something the watching something got me like emotional. his documentary uh was so just a great guy, so good. And I mean, as a kid, I watched it, but I didn't know his full story. Which, by the way, I got to say this, Justin, you brought this up.

Is it true that that the that the Epstein email show that Michael Jackson was innocent? I've been actually taking kids and bringing them to Neverland Ranch to prevent them from getting sent. I've heard this. I don't know if that's proven. There's a lot of like conjecture around it. Uh cuz too I was actually that would suck because I know I was talking to one of my friends about it too and his uh uncle actually was one of the arresting sheriffs in Santa Barbara and who went there and so one thing he said was like the doors like you could lock them you couldn't get out from the you couldn't open them from the inside.

Oh that's Oh that's Oh that's it's like weird right weird. So then, so then he was kind of like, you know, I don't know, like cuz I want to believe that because I I'm a huge Michael Jackson fan. And then I saw like a lot of these theories kind of uh opening up about that, but who knows, dude. Like I've watched all kinds of stuff on that. I went down that rabbit hole, too. I saw I heard the phone call for the night he was killed or died, you know, and he's literally with his doctor.

Yeah. He's literally talk No, it's not his doctor. He's talking to somebody else and he's talking saying that they want to kill me. He's like they're he's he's basically the night it's the it's the it's the night before. You know that he was in the middle of suing uh Sony for uh and so he was in the middle of suing Sony. Uh McColie Kulkin and the other kid who spent the most time with him said that they defended him. That court case, you know what, he won those kids.

He won that case. So all the stuff that was against him that they made a documentary about him and everything like that like that like that that he won that case when it came out after he died too that and these were all kids they dismissed their testimonies and then all of a sudden now this documentary comes out and they put their false um accusations in the documentary. So it's like I to me yeah it's all suspect interesting. Really crazy. Right. Look everybody the science on red light therapy is profound.

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Look, it's roundt based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers. By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification. Find out more at mindpfitnesscoaching.com. First caller is Jasmine from Colorado. I've been lifting for about over a decade. I've been training Brazilian jiu-jitsu for 14 years. I've been climbing for four years since I moved to Colorado.

And uh this past month or so since giving birth to my baby boy has been probably the hardest adjustment as an active person who's been consistent for so many years. Um even in pregnancy, I managed to maintain like three times a week of adjusted lifting regimen. Um I also managed to kickbox all the way through the week I gave birth. But since then, I've only been walking and doing occupational therapy. And as you probably can imagine, I'm pretty eager to get back into the swing of things.

Um, and at this moment, as I'm trying to think about like how what my life looks like and how my activity looks now post baby, I kind of have plans to do MAPS 15 in my home gym, especially after hearing feedback from you guys on to other parents on the podcast. But what I've noticed is that programs and advice specifically to recovery postpartum and actually during pregnancy are pretty dated and often lacking, especially as an active person. Even though I'm waiting for clearance from my doctor to be able to work out again, I'm pretty much a poster child for overdoing it on things.

And I I it's funny that you you just had that podcast where you talked about getting back in shape after having a baby, but I I would love to get your feedback on like what this actually looks like specifically, you know, how do I treat lifting differently do I how do I treat lifting differently than jiu-jitsu and climbing and what does it really look like, right? Cuz I I like is it starting from completely zero with body weight exercises? Is it a little bit away? I'd love to hear like what you guys think.

Jasmine, um, thank you for this question so much. And you, is this your first child? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you for calling in because you're right. Uh, the information that's out there for moms is dated and it's based off of it's first of all, it sucks anyway across the board. But it's also based off of uh inactive, you know, regular people, I guess, people who aren't working out all the time or or staying fit. Nonetheless, number one, I want to encourage you. You're doing a really good job.

And the reason why I want to tell you that is because what you went through, and I would love for you to expand on this, just for other moms listening, is probably the most radical uh body change. I'm not in control. What's going on? Things are ch like experience you've probably ever had through your fitness career. Is that am I putting it accurately? Yeah, 100%. Okay. The hardest thing about all of this for someone like you who's been working out and fit and active is uh it's so hard being someone who for a long time, you've kind of got your hands around uh your body and fitness.

Like you've done it for so long you're like, I know how to get fit. I know when something hurts. I know what to do with my diet. Like this is great. But you've been given a radically different hormone profile, body, and a different perspective. Even your thought process is different. You're probably even finding yourself uh thinking and reacting in ways that are different, especially postpartum, which is a very difficult thing to process because you got to kind of let go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I don't know what's going on anymore, which is really scary thing to do.

So, here's what you'll hear from uh people in social media. They'll say things like, "Oh, you you once you're released, once your doctor says you can get back in exercise, and by 6 months you'll be back in shape, a year later at the longest, you're going to be great. It'll be like whatever." You might even have someone posting and saying that this is for this is me and I'm great and I'm fit and all that stuff. Lies. It's all lies. all lies. It's going to take you to feel like your old self the way you did before you got pregnant.

It's going to take about two years. years. years. Now, that doesn't mean in that two-year process, you're not going to see fitness improvements and changes and strength and all that stuff, but don't expect to feel the way you did before for at least two years. two years. two years. Also, yes, you are you got to treat this like you're starting over completely because this is a completely different body than you're used to. Hormones are different. Your priorities are different. Uh even the way you process sound and sleep is different.

You hear your baby crying. It does something to you that you've never experienced before. In the middle of the night, you probably wake up at the slightest movement of the baby, whereas before you might have been able to sleep all night. You might have intrusive thoughts. What if I drop the baby? What if this happens? This is all part of the what happens to you as a mom to make you a better mom. Okay? So, you got to start completely over with with everything the program that we have.

And I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm going to encourage you right now because of your fitness background. It's going to be way easier for you than than it is for most people. The challenge is going to be you submitting to the whole process. That's going to be the challenge. The whole challenge is can I just give in to the whole thing. whole thing. whole thing. The best program we have postpartum by far, hands down, is maparter. Yeah, it's better than I actually have map starter.

Good. Good. Good. I didn't run it, but I had I bought it for my dad, but I actually have it. So, you're going to start map starter and you're going to be like, "This sucks. This is way too easy. I can do this on my train." Stability. Yeah. Just got to get into it. it. it. Yeah. This is easy. Like, what am I doing? Like, I'm way stronger than this or whatever. Uh trust, totally trust the process because you have to relearn uh muscle recruitment patterns.

your hormones aren't going to be back to what they were before for a little while anyway. Lots of things stretched and moved. Um, your your pelvic floor muscles have been changed uh for the time being. Your core stability has changed for the time being. Posterior change has changed for the time being. So, MAP starter is going to be the program that you start with and you're probably going to run that once or probably twice and then move to something like maps 15. Okay? And let me tell you some encouraging and positive stuff.

And this was stuff that I remember having to communicate to Katrina as cuz she came into pregnancy in like some of the best shape of her life. Diet was dialed. She felt the best. She was lean strong. All the things felt great. And uh I started her on starter and I remember her within a couple weeks like all right I'm ready. Give me anabolic or give me the next program. Like I'm like are you not seeing progress and results every week? And she's like well yeah I am.

So I'm and I'm like that exactly the goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most change. You're seeing change. So the cool part about somebody like you or her is even going through a program that in your head you go this is so less of what I would. Yeah. This is so much easier or basic compared to what I could do or normally would do. You think that it's not enough to give you results. But you'll see results. You'll get stronger. Stability will come together.

like you'll see progress on a program that is so less than what you're probably used to doing. And I would remind her like let's reap the benefit from this. The fact that you can do a program so elementary to you and see results is such a good thing. Let's keep going down this process. Don't worry, we'll get there. So that's the posit the positive thing is because you've got such a great background doing a program that in your head psychologically you'll be like this is not enough.

But if you ask yourself am I getting stronger every week? Am I is my stability coming back together? Am I feeling? You'll be able to tell yourself you are. And so ride that train. Ride that train and enjoy that process. Um and you will you'll get stronger. You'll get better. And someone like you will rebound quicker than the average person. average person. average person. Jasmine, you got to also uh reframe how you view progress or what you consider to be progress. So sometimes progress because I know what it's like to have kids.

Uh now I'm not a mom. Uh but I you know I'm married to one and so sometimes progress is I have more energy than I probably would. probably would. probably would. I actually feel better than I probably would. I'm less anxious than I probably would be. So it's a little bit of new territory. Your old uh perception of progress might not be uh one that you're going to use now. So it might just be okay. I'm actually better than I I probably would be even though I'm struggling.

Would I be struggling more uh if I wasn't doing this right? Now, if you do this wrong and you push yourself a little too hard uh or you do the wrong movements, uh aches, pains, injury, fatigue, uh and feeling fried or burnt out or what are going to happen to you. So, I remember even my wife, I mean, uh she, you know, she was consistent with her exercise, real strong beforehand, the whole deal. and she'd be like, "Man, I I just I didn't even think I went hard and my back is hurting.

Like, what's going on?" I'm like, "Honey, your your your muscle recruitment patterns. We got to wait." And so, she couldn't even push certain exercises for like a year and a half because each time she'd do it, she'd kind of hurt and couldn't figure it out. But then afterwards, it was like, uh, not a big deal. So, just stick with starter. Stick with starter. Go on walks walks walks uh with the baby. uh watch jiu-jitsu videos. That'll help keep the techniques f fresh f fresh f fresh in your mind.

If you do jiu-jitsu uh you know, a year later, you're just going to flow. You know what that means? Because you do jiu-jitsu. You're just going to kind of go through the techniques and the movements and flow. Don't go too hard. hard. hard. And just and and you're listen, in a couple years, you you're going to be like, "Wow, I'm I'm ready to roll." Unless you have another baby in between, which it'll take a little longer. Yeah, that's the jiu-jitsu is the one that I'm actually the most nervous about.

Um, like I have some some lingering injuries pre- pregnancy that I like did PT for and I can still feel them especially now like in my hips like with having the baby and stuff. I feel like they're still there. So, it's good to know that I need the muscle recruitment stuff definitely makes sense. But jiu-jitsu is definitely the one that I'm I have the most questions about because um it's easy for me to lift and even to kickbox on a bag like I can control things, but when I'm training with people like I can't really control their behaviors and how intense they go and I don't and I'm not exactly expecting to get back into like competition shape like in a in a year, but I I would be curious to see like So you're saying like a year before I really get back into jiu-jitsu the way I used to be?

Yeah. If you start to feel good, uh, then you're just going to go roll at a very low intensity and flow, which you know what that feels like. You're just you're just practicing technique, not tons of resistance. You get them into a position, you let them escape, you move into a new position just to keep the techniques fresh techniques fresh techniques fresh uh in your mind, but no hard uh nothing hard, no hard grappling. The risk of injuries high. The areas that are most susceptible to injury postpartum are hips, back, and the pelvic floor.

And pelvic floor injuries can feel like low back injuries. back injuries. back injuries. Okay. Or hip or sciatica type stuff. Uh it's because they're all connected with that. that. that. That makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You got it. And you have starter. I do. I do. I do. Yes. Good. Yes. Good. Yes. Good. Good. Eat to nourish yourself. That might be the other question. High protein is really good. Don't go on a cut. cut. cut. Don't try to go on a cut. Are you uh are you nursing?

You're breastfeeding? I'm transitioning from breastfeeding right now. right now. right now. Okay. So yes, I So that'll give you a little bit more flexibility, but just eat to nourish your body, let your body heal, enjoy your baby. You'll be back at it uh before you know it, and you're going to feel great. But be patient. Okay. Thank you so much, guys. You got it. Thanks for calling in. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Not enough is communicated appropriately to women. It's just uh like terrible. the the information that's out there and the expectations uh for women who are fit is just and again I want to be clear that doesn't mean between now and the 2-year period she's not feeling good she'll make rapid progress it's just you have to be realistic about what you know you have to recover and heal from completely completely completely and what what I'm talking about is this she'll get fit and healthy so that's not I'm not saying it's going to take two years to get fit and healthy and look good all that stuff that'll happen sooner but she'll know this and this is what you'll hear women who are sincere and honest who do this, they'll tell you this like I just don't feel like myself 100%.

100%. 100%. Right. Right. Right. You know, and then like two years later like, oh, there it is. It's a new baseline that you have to work with. work with. work with. Well, especially someone like this who's who's a peak fitness person. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. 14 years of jiu-jitsu training, climbing, right? climbing, right? climbing, right? That's a high bar. She'll be a Yeah. higher. higher. higher. For someone like that, it's it's a definite two-year, you know, because you're not going to feel peak for a long time.

But someone like the positive thing just so because I felt like we just laid a bunch of bad news on her is that she her body will like more than the average person. I guarantee she looks better than 99% of women and feels better than 99% at this stage. stage. stage. That's also why it's so important for her to be dialed in with her recruitment process right now because otherwise, you know, you get strong and then now we're we have these these new bad patterns that wors out.

And by the way, when whenever we communicate something like this, remember we were coaches. I'm gonna give somebody uh the general answer. Does that mean some people are not going to get there faster? Some people will get there faster. But what I'm not gonna say, which is a stupid mistake that coaches make, is tell them the best best case scenario. case scenario. case scenario. You go back to yourself in five, six months months months and then poor girl is like a year later, is like what's going on?

So, so like two years is generally what you'll experience. experience. experience. Next caller is Brock from Utah. Brock, what's up? How you doing, Brock? What's going on? Wow. This is this is honestly crazy to be able to talk to you guys. Um, I uh wrote out my question. So, I'm going to read that because I am a rambler and so I don't want to ramble on and, you know, take up too much of your time, guys. Let's do it. First of all, good morning, guys. I want to say thank you to all four of you for being such amazing role models to me and everything you do and say, ever since I found your podcast, uh, shout out to Chase Tuning and the Ever Forward podcast.

I have been listening and passing on all of your information to anyone that asks or that will listen to me. Uh, since I submitted my question, a lot has changed. I have since graduated from college and I'm still looking for a job related to my degree. So, I'm still working the night shift and I also no longer have a gym membership. So, I uh work out at home using adjustable dumbbells, a suspension trainer, and bands. bands. bands. Um, I've already read and searched everything you guys talked about for night shift, but feel like I do better with uh maps anabolic style compared to MAPS 15.

Um, I don't really track calories due to some obsessive habits with that, but I focus on eating protein first and trying to eat until I feel like I'm full. Um, and then I average about 13 to 14 steps a day while at work. But on the weekends, which is Wednesday night and Thursday night for me, um, those next days I'm kind of lucky to get above 5K, so they do vary kind of extreme. Um, I'm not really in looking for like aesthetics or anything. I just kind of want to have a good life and, you know, kind of like what you guys have been talking a lot about, performing well.

and uh I wanted to really just focus on weight loss. Um I've lost about 60 lbs since going gluten-free about 10 months ago. I do appreciate you guys and take all of your advice and recommendations very seriously. So, thank you. It sounds like you're doing a really good job already. The the quick solve on the program thing I would do based off of what you're saying. Uh like something in between the MAT 15 and you can you can uh double up the days on Matt 15.

Yeah. Do a 30. Okay. Okay. Okay. So that like Yeah. do like a like a MAPS 30 or about 40 minutes is probably what it really takes uh to do that. And so just pair that. So you're doing four exercises a day. And really with someone like you that has a shift like that, um I would actually decide if I was going to pair it up based off of how good asleep and how rested and how good you feel. So actually I would run like the MAPS 15 protocol, but then when you have days where you're like well rested, well fed, you feel good, it's like cool, I'm going to pair the the next two days up.

Days that you're like not so much. that I might actually do just the maps 15. And so that's kind of how I would modify it. Uh for someone like you, I think that will solve the feeling like uh maps 15 isn't enough, but maps anabolic is too much sometimes. I think that will help. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brock, real quick, you you said you feel like maps anabolic is better than mass 15 for you. What do you mean by that? Uh more so habitually than anything.

Um, I don't know if it was the mindset of just being able to feel like I've accomplished, per se, everything. Um, and like feeling like I did get a really solid workout in. Um, I will say I'm not like the most consistent when it comes to working out. Um, I do let things kind of sway me from stopping rather than like minimizing what I'm doing and still working out. working out. working out. Yeah. So, I'll do maps anabolic and I feel good, I feel great, and then something happens and I just stop completely.

Whereas, if I'm doing maps 15, I feel like I'm still leaving stuff on the table. Oh, well, you're wrong. In that case, do mass 15. I'm glad I asked. If you came back, oh, I get stronger, I get better performance or whatever, I'd be like, all right, we'll stay with that. But you're Yeah, you got to just ignore your feelings. I think mass 15 is better for you, bro, you, bro, you, bro, across the board. and just do your best to stay consistent and you miss a day on it, then just pick back up where you left off.

You'll get better results, dude. dude. dude. Okay? Okay? Okay? And when it comes to Listen, Brock, when it comes to consistency, I'm just gonna tell you this. Uh, a little every day works better than a lot every, you know, few days. It just does over over time. If I were to look at the total training that you did over six months or a year ver you trying to follow one protocol versus the other, you're going to do more with the protocol that looks like a little bit every day.

every day. every day. It's just it's just how it works. And it's for night shift workers, it no it's like, bro, it's there's no comparison. Well, this is why I thought him pairing the 15 up because if you if you have if if part of your problem is you're you're inconsistent with getting to the gym and you have a hard time probably getting to the gym six days a week and you don't see yourself doing that. Do you have a home gym? home gym? home gym?

Uh I just have some dumbbells and like the bands and suspension trainers and do you use those or do you just go to the gym each time? Uh no, I I use those pretty regularly. Oh, it doesn't matter, dude. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, Oh yeah, doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Go mass 15. stay consistent with it. It sounds to me like the problem is you feel like it's not enough of a workout when you do it. So, are you looking for that sore feeling or are you looking for like is that what you're lacking or like it's not enough at one time?

Yeah. There are days that I get, you know, like Adam said earlier, I get a ton of sleep, I feel good, I feel great, and I'm like I'm ready to take on like a good solid workout. workout. workout. But then there are other days where, you know, no matter the amount of sleep I get, I feel like Yeah. Here's what's happen. happen. happen. You can also crank that intensity in that short amount of time. Right. And here's what's happening to someone like you with a night shift.

You're going to have those swings in energy because of your your your sleep schedule. schedule. schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's not because one work because it's better to work out, you know, longer. It's going to fluctuate a lot. No. In fact, you're better off leaving energy on the table when you have good energy. You'll get less of those days that you feel like you're you're dragging. dragging. dragging. Yeah. Then consistency will be more likely for sure. Yeah, dude. It's going to give you more energy.

uh anyway and it's going to give you less of those days where you feel like you're dragging. Okay? Okay? Okay? So, you're you're better off going in with a lot of energy and feeling like, man, I could have done three times as much and then just stopping than you are getting after it cuz that's going to contribute to more of those days where you feel like you're you're just dying. How is like your cravings and appetite with like the schedule and everything like that? Are I mean, you said you pretty good with hitting the protein.

How's your diet? Um my diet, my wife and I, we are focusing on whole foods. Um I would say it's about 9010 whole foods. We do uh like uh you Adam do have the occasional sweet tooth. Um ice cream is pretty amazing. So, but we we like our sweets here and there. Um my wife wants her sweet treat with after every dinner. So, you know, we'll have something. Um, we get like little yogis, their little fruit covered in yogurt for a sweet treat, something like that.

like that. like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. But for the most part, it's it's whole foods. Um, do like salads, bowls, that kind of stuff. Oh, good. So, you dude. Yeah, you're good. You're good. Mass 15, bro. Which one do you have? Do you have traditional Mass 15? Maybe a new traditional Max 15. We bought it when you guys released it. We were like, "Wow, this is going to be a good program." And we've liked using it in the past, but as I have the gym membership and, you know, moving into the night shift, kind of throw everything through a loop.

What do you think? Map symmetry because he's got the dumbbells. Yeah, Map Symmetry 15. Yeah, I'd be up for that. All right, we're going to send you Maps 15 symmetry so you have another option. Oh, sweet. Thanks. You got it, dude. Stay the course, though. Sound like you're doing good. Yeah, bro. Yeah. Sweet. Sweet. Sweet. All right, bro. Thanks, guys. You got it, man. Right on. Yeah. I had to ask cuz I'm like, why is he saying he gets better? which would be listen it's possible but with a night shift uh it's it's less likely you'll get better results.

Yeah. I was getting the impression that uh he struggles with g being consistent lifting six days a week and so it was like stay with mass 15 and then the days when that happens you would double Yeah. When that happens I would just double it up and then when it doesn't happen then you run 15. But the other advice too of just always running 15 is is also is also is also Yeah. Cuz what he's saying is like man sometimes I just got a lot of energy and then sometimes I feel like I have no energy.

Leave the energy on the table when you have a lot of energy. Helps carry into the rest of the week 100%. 100%. 100%. Our next caller is Caitlyn from New York. York. York. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Caitlin. How you doing, Caitlyn? Hi. How are you guys doing? Good. How can we help you? Good. Well, I'm super excited to be here. Um, I just love the podcast. Thank you so much. I learned so much and it's always so interesting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, so my question is, I'm a little nervous, so I'm going to read my email and um try to stay on pace.

Okay. Mhm. Okay. Mhm. Okay. Mhm. I'm a 42 I'm 42 years old. Um about 5'5 145 lbs. Uh body fat estimate is 25%. I lift five days per week and run about five to six days per week. My goals are performance. I want faster 5k times, sprint speed, and getting stronger on squats, deadlifts, bench, and pull-ups. Um I also really struggle with body image and feel pressured weigh less and look leaner. I eat about 2400 calories. My lifts are improving. I'm running faster, but I don't feel lean enough.

I feel like I don't look like I do all the work. Um, I have a long history of running. Always been a runner. In 2023, I started lifting and I got into a strict calorie deficit, lost a bunch of weight, got down to 125, and felt really good there. Since then, I've gained about 15 20 lbs. The scale says about seven pounds of or like half and half muscle and fat. So, I know there's been, you know, it's been productive, but I really don't like the weight.

I don't like what I how I look. And so, my question is, how do you balance training for performance while also chasing like aesthetic goals and like how do you manage nutrition and etc. Caitlyn, how long you been listening to us for? us for? us for? Uh, like a year and a half, two years. Yeah. I feel like you know what's coming right now. right now. right now. I kind of do. Yeah. I kind of do. Yeah. Well, here let's let me paraphrase. I want to be clear.

Let's paraphrase the three the three goals. goals. goals. No, no. I'm going to Yeah. Just so we have clear. So, you want to get uh faster 5K time, sprint time. sprint time. sprint time. You also want to get stronger on squats, deadlifts, bench press, and pull-ups. And you want to get leaner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything you don't want? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I know. I know. I know. You want to make you want to make $10 million. You million. You million. You want to get taller?

You want to try to get taller, too? Uh, I know it's a lot. Okay. The only way to do all of that is if you pick one or two and focus on that and then pick the next one. So, you're going to have to pick a couple. So, what do you want? I I hear the aesthetic thing I I hear the aesthetic thing is the thing that seems to be bothering you. And that's that's a that's a aesthetic goal doesn't pair well with all that other with all that running.

It's just your your body is adapted conflicting goals conflicting goals conflicting goals to everything that you are doing to it. That's why it's not responding aesthetically. I bet your performance is great. I bet you're probably very fit and healthy and all the all the great markers are all good, which is a great place to be if you love doing all those things. things. things. But if you if someone if you were a client of mine and you were doing all that stuff and you said, "Adam, I just I'm doing all this stuff and I don't like the way I look or I want to change my body." I would say, "Well, we're going all about it wrong." This is not the way we change your aesthetics.

aesthetics. aesthetics. We need to block it out. So, we focus on If you want to look a certain way and we want to do something that that's a total different focus and that that what that looks like is scaling way back on all the running, scaling way back on how much we've been training, reverse dieting and building muscle to speed your metabolism up and then getting into a cut. It looks so different than performancebased goals. Now, we'll probably get probably get probably get we're not going to drop too much performance-wise, too, just FYI.

Like, you just need to shift your focus and priority completely. So we we allow the body to really respond appropriately to that. You come back since you've been doing this for so long, your body's going to jump right back into performance with, you know, the aesthetics. aesthetics. aesthetics. The good news is we can't we we can focus on the aesthetics and and probably see incredible strength gains in the squats and the deadlift and going that direction because that's what I'd want to do with you if you to what I'd want to do with you if you were a client telling me that we want to change aesthetics.

So I'd say cool, let's let's reverse diet and let's get strong, right? Right. So, that would be the focus would be to build some muscle, lift, get the get better at those lifts. You're saying that that's going to support our aesthetic goals. Uh, but we'd have to scale way back on all the running stuff. running stuff. running stuff. Just so you know, too, Caitlin, the average woman performs best right around 23 to 26% body fat. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's the a that's the average woman. Uh, typically, if you're looking for best performance, best performance, best performance, Yeah.

you're in that. You're there. Yeah. So getting leaner uh tends to decrease performance because of what's required with diet and hormones. hormones. hormones. Y Y Y and so yeah so so what you don't want to do is is is crash your hormones and all that stuff in pursuit of all these other things. So okay so there's a couple ways we could approach it. Uh what Adam said is is the more traditional one which would like this aesthetics first aesthetics first aesthetics first and let's get that first.

There is a way to do all of it slowly really slow. Okay. But it looks like uh you're going to focus a little bit on of strength training once a one week and then the next week a little bit on running and you're going to alternate. I heard you say that like another episode ago and I wondered if that would work. work. work. It would, but it's going to get hybrid. It'll get you everything slower. So you'll kind of slowly get better at everything over time a few months.

That's right. So it would be like one day a week of strength training, four to five days a week of running, one week, the next week four days a week of strength training, one day a week of running. running. running. Okay, got it. Okay. So I could try that and then I to kind of go back for the first step that you recommended was like get strong and get lean and like take the running off to the side. the side. the side. That's right. That's the more Yes.

That's if you're like I want aesthetics. I want to see the aesthetics. aesthetics. aesthetics. Yeah. If it's a major priority, that would be the move. and we're going to reverse diet. reverse diet. reverse diet. And the the reason why I go that way is because I actually think I bet your performance is pretty badass for I think what I think you're in optimal body fat range. I think you're probably pretty fast. I think you're probably doing pretty damn good performance wise. We lost your camera for a second.

Caitlyn, did you turn I know. Sorry about that. I don't know why that happened. No worries. There it goes. Okay. But I I feel like at least what I'm hearing and I could be wrong, but what what I'm hearing from you is like I do all this work and I and I don't have the look I want. And so when a if a client tells me that I'm like, well, we're going about it the wrong way if we're looking for a look. And if you want to go for a look, let me handle that.

We'll go for a look and then we can always get back like and you're not going to like Justin said, it's not like you're going to all you can't run anymore. You won't be able to do these things, but that stuff will take that becomes less important right now. Let's go build the metabolism, build the physique that you want. Uh, and then when you go, "Oh man, Adam, I love this. I love the way I look with my legs, my arms, all the things that you you care about." Then I go, "Cool.

Let's start to ramp up the running a little bit and see how it goes and see how much we can maintain this physique." And what what that will probably look like is a much higher calorie intake with more muscle and have and you'll be fed more while you go back to more of your running. running. running. Are you are you hitting like at least 140 grams of protein a day? Yes, definitely. Yep. Always. Always. So it' be MAPS maps anabolic would be your program and and you would really run like once twice a week at the bottom.

Okay. Once to Okay. Drop it down to that. Okay. that. Okay. that. Okay. Way down. Yeah. And and you're going to keep your protein uh high. Probably go up Yeah. Probably go up to about 2500 calories. Uh and then just get strong and then and then when you feel good, bump it up another little bit. And once you get up to like 27 2,800 calories or more, then you can start to cut and then you'll see the fat come off. Got it. Okay. And then later on I can go back to the running.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes, you can. Now if you want like Now if you want like coaching, if you want personal coaching, it's a much larger investment. But what a coach would do is walk you through the process step by step. You text them, hey, I feel this way. I'm going what's what do I do here? And then we also we also we also question whatever you're doing, they got you. you. you. We also have coaches. Much larger investment, but you're going to have someone coach you through the whole process.

So, process. So, process. So, if you want that, we could have Doug uh make sure someone calls you. Yeah, that would be awesome. I would love that. love that. love that. Okay, I'll have somebody I have somebody in mind for you, so I'll have someone call you call you call you and then I'd love to check back in with you because we'll be checking up on your program as you go through it. Okay, I would love that. Thank you so much. much. much. Right on. Right on.

Right on. Okay, take care. Bye. I love that. It's like I want Yeah. As she's going through all of it, I'm like, "Okay, this I want the buffet. I want to do I want to start a new company. I want to make $10 million the first year, but I want to be super present with my wife and my four kids, and I want to learn a new hobby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Be the greatest of all time. Let's pick one right now. I mean, I I I feel like uh it it's typically the aesthetic thing, right?

Cuz somebody who's doing that much work, that's what it is. It's like you're you're doing all these things and you're like, I eat good. I run like crazy, but I just don't have this physique I want. And it's like, well, it's cuz we're going about it wrong. It's like that's not the process for the And again, this is obviously why I asked how long you've been listening because I feel like that's the theme of this show is that we're always telling people that cardio and running is not the best place to build the best is not the best place to build a body you want.

Like it's incredible. Yeah. For aesthetics. It's it's incredible for your heart and it's good for being healthy and endurance, but it's uh it's a terrible way to get the body you want. If you have these goals of I want shoulders and a butt and legs to look away, it's like that's not how you go about doing it. And so when you get someone who's doing this much work, work, work, they feel like, man, I should feel like I look better. But she's actually right. Like you nailed it.

She's she's in the perfect place for performance. Like if your body fat percentage and the way and she looks good, like you're great. Like let's if you want to keep pushing the 5K thing and get faster and that we can keep doing You know what the problem is is that people look at the at elite athletes which stop everybody stop comparing yourself to genetic anomalies. Just you don't just so rare. The chick on the cover of the magazine. But the the best body fat percentage across the board generally for men for performance is like 15 16%.

For women it's like in the mid20s. You need those energy. And there are those genetic anomalies. You'll see them. They're shredded and they're you know playing sports. Like you're not like that. You're you're not you're you're probably like the 99.99% of us. And it's a higher body fat percentage than having abs. It just is. Our next caller is Alex from Washington. What's up, man? How you doing, Alex? What's happening? What's happening? What's happening? Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for having me on. It's awesome to meet you.

You got it, dude. How can we help you? Yeah. Um, I I originally wrote into the show to get some perspective on my fat loss goals. Um, so I'm going to set the stage for you here with a few notes. Um, I'm 35 years old and when I reached out, I was 205 lbs. I had a DEXA scan from November that put me at 30% body fat, which was honestly really surprising to me because I work out all the time. I knew that I wasn't even close to my peak shape anymore, but I guess that I was in a bit of denial about the body fat that I had put on.

I'm a new dad. My son was born in August, so I've had to reel back uh a few days in the gym per week. But I do have a modest home gym setup and a membership to a commercial gym that's right down the street from my house. It's really close. I lift pushpull legs three times a week and I usually do about 20 minutes of low inensity cardio afterwards. Up until recently, my calories were pretty inconsistent. Um, I was eating anywhere from 1,800 calories per day to like the upper 200s.

pretty pretty big swings. Um, and while I I know I eat a lot of meat, I really wasn't tracking protein. So, I was probably hovering around 100 grams of protein per day for a long time. I think that my maintenance calories uh is 2500. is 2500. is 2500. Over the last two to three weeks, I've been tracking my calories, tracking my macros, and my steps. Uh, I use My Fitness Pallet to do all that. I've been eating about 2,000 calories per day. I've been hitting 150 to 200 grams of protein per day, 100 to 200 grams of carbs per day, depending on if I'm working out or if it's an off day.

And I've been keeping the fats under 60 gram uh and averaging about 6,000 steps per day. So, that's been about 2 to 3 weeks being really diligent. Um, my weight has dropped from 205 to 196 as of today. I'm feeling great about the drop. I'm feeling like it's probably water weight, inflammation, glycogen. Um, I I want to make sure that I'm approaching this this cut and my goal of reducing body fat sustainably and not do anything drastic and rebound. I've been on drastic cuts before, as low as like 1,600 calories for a long time.

And, you know, I was able to achieve my goal, but um it was just like not sustainable. And the season of life I'm in right now, that's it's just not s it's not the right uh plan for me. So, basically, you know, my goal, all that is to say, my goal is to get down to 15% body fat and would love your thoughts on, you know, how to move forward from here. you uh any advice? You said you're at about 2 2400 calories. calories. calories. Uh right now over the last 2 to 3 weeks I've been eating pretty strictly 2,000 calories.

I'm I'm estimating my maintenance is 2500. Yeah. So Yeah. So Yeah. So So I'm estimating I'm in a slight deficit. deficit. deficit. So I think there's a couple things you could do. I think what you're doing is okay. You're actually on the right track. But I'm gonna take us we're gonna go back for a second. Uh before you got your DEXA scan, how are you feeling? like how are you feeling fitness and health-wise? health-wise? health-wise? I was feeling really strong. Um I felt I I felt bloated.

Um like I knew I was I like felt puffy. Um I felt like I was on like a like a heavy bulk, but I felt really strong. Sleep was really good. Um you know, everything energy, libido, all good. good. good. Yeah. Yeah. Energy, libido, everything was really good. I just wasn't happy with the mirror. So yeah, but here's the deal. Cuz here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing like I felt like I was doing all right and then I got a Dexus scan and it changed how I felt.

felt. felt. So I'm gonna help you with that a little bit. Okay. Don't get too hung up on uh a body fat test. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because it's like it could change everything just cuz the test said something. If you felt good, you're probably okay. Now, I like the direction you're going. There's only one thing I would change. would change. would change. A little bit higher fat. Yeah. Your fat is too low. Yeah. You got Yeah. A guy like you like you get down to 60, you're you're playing with too little fat.

that's going to start feeling like crap. crap. crap. I think I think just a little bit. I think the bump in fat by 10 to 20 gram alone and that'll bump your calories a little bit. little bit. little bit. I think you can hover around the probably the 22 to 2,300 calories and you'll be fine. It'll be Yeah, that that should lean you lean you out and maybe even build a little bit of muscle. Uh just I think you like Sal said, I think you're on the right track.

I think you were probably having big swings. It sounds like you knew that like you would have low day and then you have a really high day. I'm guessing that on those really high days, you probably overeat carb type foods and probably didn't hit protein intake. On the low days, you probably didn't get enough protein in what you needed. And so now you're more in closer to the range of where you need to be. And I bet you can hover right around that 22 to 2400 range and actually see a nice body composition change and stay fed so you don't feel like you're starving.

Your energy should be okay. Uh and you'll know because you'll be you'll be strong in the gym. You won't feel as strong as you do when you're eating 3,000 calories and you're totally filled up because there there's a different feeling. But you should feel strong and good energy and good libido and good sleep and should see a nice nice leaning out process. process. process. If you were my client because the last thing that you said, Alex, is I want to do this in a sustainable way and I've kind of crash dieted before.

So, if you were my client and I I like that you said that, by the way, that's the number one concern uh as a coach for all my clients. That's number one because it's the most difficult thing. Losing body fat, building muscle, getting more fit. Those are hard, but they pale in comparison to consistency over long periods of time. That's like the number one challenge. So, what I would do with you is I would say, "Look, let's do this, Alex. Stop tracking everything. Hit your protein targets.

Stick to whole natural foods. That's it. Don't eat anything that's processed. Lift weights three days a week. Maps anabolic, not the ppl, whatever you're doing now. Go maps anabolic. and try to aim for about 8,000 steps a day cuz you're at 6,000. Just do that. Just hit protein, whole natural foods when you're hungry. Don't go processed. That'll keep everything in check. Lift weights three days a week. Maps anabolic. Hit 8,000 steps a day. Now you're going to get the results and you're going to do it in a way that's sustainable.

It's not going to feel like you're controlling everything where at some point you're like, I want to get off of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel like I need to control everything right now. Well, and and part of the reason was because everything was, you know, chaos. It was totally uncontrolled. And I was like, "All right, if I'm going to try to figure this out, let's let's try to control a few things and just see what happens." And then within two weeks, I was like, "All right, I I feel like I'd lost some weight." And, you know, by listening to you guys a lot, like, I knew that was probably going to happen.

I was probably going to just shed a little bit of water weight inflammation. And, um, I'm feeling a lot better. her strength has definitely dropped. It's not dropped dramatically, but strength has dropped. Um, but that's interesting about the fats. So, you guys think the low, but stop tracking stop tracking everything. So, I'm going to make it easier. The only things you need to control, hit your protein every consistently every single day. Only eat whole natural foods. Hit 8,000 steps a day and lift weights. Don't track anything else.

And eat eat when you're hungry. That's it. Just but eat a whole food and eat a protein first, right? So that's kind of like the when I'm not tracking, I'm intuitive leading. I allow myself to eat when I want to eat. I when I want to eat. I just don't eat the processed [ __ ] or the garbage. I just go for a high protein meal and it'll kind of control itself. It's very reasonable that you'll go from 13 to probably 16 15% body fat doing this. this.

this. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it's it's it's actually quite expected. You don't have to do anything else to kind of get there. Now, once you get to 15 16, you're like, "Oh, cool. I want to get to 12 or 10." Then we might need to track a little bit more. But I think at that point, you'll be great. You'll feel great and you'll be like, "I'm cool. Okay, got it. I'll send you Do you have Maps Anabolic? No, no, I don't. Is it Is it a three-day a week plan?

Yeah, it's a three-day a week plan. It's a better three-day a week than a push pull also. Yeah, you're going to you'll see results just from that. So, that'll that'll help. that'll help. that'll help. Awesome. Yep. Awesome. Yep. Awesome. Yep. Yeah, I've been doing PPL for years. Would love to check it out. This will be a great change. This will be a good change. Yep. Yep. Yep. Awesome, guys. Well, hey, I I appreciate the perspective. I'll definitely put it in practice. in practice. in practice. Hey, check back with us in about 60 days.

I'd like to hear where you're at. I think you're going to see I think you're going to be really happy. Alex, how long you been listening to the show? Just six months. I I I I ju I just found you guys within the last year. So, it's when I wrote in I think it was like six or seven months. I was about to take a flight. I was looking for like fitness podcast to listen to. I've been like hammering my normal podcast like JRE and stuff and I was like, what is this mind pump?

And I started listening and I was like, oh, okay. This is like right up my alley. Yeah, good deal. We'll send you that program. program. program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right on. I check back with I want to hear from you in six and in about two months I think you're going to see a huge difference. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Cool. We'll do. Thanks, guys. You know what's uh for us? Uh he's only been listening for less than a year, so whatever. But uh it's it's surprising how long people will listen before they get a program, a maps program.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh just for anybody listening right now, now, now, dudes. They're dudes. That's why it's like stopping and asking for Hey, bro. It's stopping. Stop it and asking for directions, dog. directions, dog. directions, dog. I know. I know. I know. It's stopping and asking for directions. I got this [ __ ] Oh, that sounds like good advice. Except you don't. I'm going to keep doing this. Except you don't. At some point, you're just you keep taking the wrong turn. Listen here. If you listen to the show for a while, it's probably because you like us.

You probably s find some value. Just get a damn program. Yeah. Get a damn program. Try it out for yourself. Maybe we know what we're talking about. And I'm going to tell you this, it'll save you so much time and money because otherwise you'll call us in three years. Hey guys, I've been trying this, been trying. It's not working. Hey, cool. Here. That's the thing. It's our thoughts on paper. I'll tell you this, too. I think I think a like pushpull eggs is cool and all, but running it as a three-day a week routine and not doing it as a a six day routine day routine day routine or doing it for forever, you know, like it's you got to change at some point in someone like this full body probably works better.

Typically does. No, no, no. For his lifestyle, it's going to be way better. Well, anabolic is going to be right up his that alone is already going to give him some good good results. We'll see. And I, you know, to touch on what you said, I think it's really good advice to not track because I actually would want him, he's going to do anabolic and he's going to build muscle up if he, yeah, his appetite will go up. And so what he thinks his maintenance is right now might change.

And so the advice of like, hey, eat when you're hungry. Just make good choices and watch what happens. The if the secret to not rebounding, uh, part of the secret is to get to your goal with the least amount of control around everything as possible. Yeah. because that's what people end up letting go that causes the rebound. All right, I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Shredded, ripped, defined, singledigit body fat. Yes. Yes. Yes. You want to get there? Let's talk about it.

it. it. Difficult. And is it worth it? That's a follow-up question. follow-up question. follow-up question. Yeah. First off, we got to say, okay, so singledigit body fat, obviously body fat percentages, uh that could be represented by one digit like 3%, 5%, 6%, 9%. That's uh ripped for men. For women, women, women, add 10%. add 10%. add 10%. Yeah. Don't Yeah, exactly.